=== ChrisH [~chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === boglot [~logbot@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rcouto [~rcouto@c9062ee8.virtua.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === hornbeck [~hornbeck@12.155.9.139] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:16] hello [03:16] anyone around? === adgf [~adgf@h00a0cc687033.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:34] morn [08:37] hello froud1 [08:37] hello froud! [08:48] bright and sunny in johannesburg following a night of rain [08:56] enrico, I got http://lento.uncasino.it/enrico/store/faq-svk.tar.gz [08:56] thanks [08:56] bright and sunny in Kaohsiung as well: I have to install xsnow to understand we're in christmas time :) [08:56] froud: no problem! [08:57] froud: please use the list or IRC for any problems you might have [08:57] snow what's that [08:57] :-) [08:59] enrico, I know I can post patches to the list, but how do you like your patches? [08:59] ie [08:59] do you preffer a person to make all changes to a file and patch [08:59] or make all changes everywhere and make one big patch === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:08] sivang, boker tov [09:09] froud: hey shaun , whassup? :) [09:09] froud: didn't know you were speaking hebrew... [09:10] enrico: morning!!! [09:10] enrico: I see you put a great deal of work into the wiki in the last couple of days, got any sleep? :) [09:11] sivang, betag ma ata choshev [09:12] sivang, I lived there for 10 years [09:13] I got the src's thanks to enrico [09:16] I was just looking at ubuntu.xsl [09:16] [09:16] would it not be better to now use [09:16] /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/ [09:17] xhtml.chunk.xsl [09:17] xhtml/chunk.xsl [09:18] That way in future upgrades of the xsl ubuntu.xsl won't break [09:19] froud: ok, now, lemme get my thoughts straigt..Are you a former israeli? === enrico is back [09:48] froud: IDo as you prefer. [09:48] froud: I'd say do as you prefer. [09:49] You can make a full patch, then I can apply it to the svk shapshot I have as another branch, and do the merge [09:49] froud: yes [09:49] froud: It seems that we didn't know much about docbook but went striaght ahead and started hacking on it, [09:49] enrico, ok so I will make patches on a per file level [09:49] enrico: can we get svn access for froud ? [09:50] froud: I just made a branch for you corresponding to the checkout I gave you [09:50] enrico: since when is that checkout? [09:50] sivang: As soon as John is back [09:50] sivang: sorry: export [09:50] enrico, ok [09:50] eh [09:50] enrico: do you know if you had the lastest version ? [09:50] I'm so happy with this svk. [09:50] svk? [09:50] sivang: I can tell you the revision number [09:50] the mirror thingy? [09:51] enrico: do tell me [09:51] sivang: http://svk.elixus.org/ [09:51] I can branch and merge and do whatever I want locally, then when I want I can sync with upstream in a big commit [09:51] ah! [09:51] It can use meld as a conflict resolution tool as well [09:51] arch for svn devotees [09:51] :) [09:51] enrico, svk is cool [09:52] is th ebuild env for docs not updated [09:52] yes! It also accesses CVS repositories, and they plan to access Arch in the future [09:52] froud: afaik, everyone is testing them with yelp [09:52] I see the xsl:import is [09:52] this is old [09:53] froud: you're welcome to fix it [09:53] yes yelp is fun [09:53] Shaun did some great work there [09:53] enrico, problem is it dont help if I fix it and the build env does not have the same path [09:54] eh Shaun McKane, an open source hero :) [09:54] also the makefile only builds html [09:54] what about pdf [09:54] froud: I don't know if anyone is using the makefile at all [09:54] I am :) [09:55] I imagine when we need to export HTML or PDF, we'll see about the makefile [09:55] sivang: ah, oh, cool! [09:55] enrico, make file is best way [09:55] I've had to modify it by hand to produce the html for the deb pacakjge.. [09:55] froud: if you master the DocBook build thing, please update the makefile as well [09:55] froud: would you be willing to add your changes? :) [09:55] yes and more but I need to discuss it with you guys [09:56] no point me doing what people dont want [09:56] ok, what have you had in mind? [09:56] my tool chain is docbook dtd, xsl, saxon, fop [09:57] you guys need xi [09:57] so I can use xsltproc [09:57] my makefile will need all these [09:57] froud: if it's in Ubuntu, we can put it as a build-dep [09:57] froud: if it's not in Ubuntu, it can be a problem [09:57] so fop may be the problem [09:58] froud: xsltproc is already a dependecy for that package. [09:58] but the build env for docs should be seperate from ubuntu build [09:59] please elaborate [09:59] The makefile enables us to produce presentational targets [09:59] froud: also, shaun told me we where abusing docbook in a way never be seen before - he specifically regerred to the inline image inclusion, do you know anything about it? [10:00] yes [10:00] enrico: we need to fix shaun also an account, when john comes back from vegas :) [10:00] I will mark this for fixing [10:00] where is your issue tracker === froud is deafend by the silence [10:02] froud: the mailing list [10:02] froud: or bugzilla [10:02] froud: there's a 'documentation [10:02] your bugzilla [10:02] froud: there's a 'documentation' item in bugzilla [10:02] uri [10:02] bugzilla.ubuntu.com [10:03] bugzilla would be good [10:03] although I would rather replace it with malone :) [10:03] ok cool [10:03] my thinking is that people should be able to build docbook for html and pdf regardless of the ubuntu dist [10:04] then there is the build for ubuntu itself [10:04] three make targets [10:04] froud: so you mean, make our docs buildable in any distro? I am not sure I am following you... [10:04] placing this make in the ubuntu src tree whould not be a problem if it is dcoumented [10:05] sivang, there are times when you want the docs to build outside of ubuntu [10:05] like in suse? :) [10:06] yet you still want to be able to package it for ubuntu [10:06] yes, lik ein SuSE :-0 [10:06] froud: sure, the docs should build outside of ubuntu, but they should be built on ubuntu as well, so that they can be packaged in the distro [10:06] enrico, yesssss [10:06] I don't know if the autobuilders allow packages from universe: I can ask if you want [10:06] or maybe sivan knows [10:07] The only component is Apache FOP [10:07] enrico: we need to check, I can check each dependecy see where it stired. [10:07] I dont think its in ubuntu [10:07] Apache FOP? [10:07] froud: do you have a link to it? [10:08] Yes this is the only component that will cause a problem if it is not in ubuntu [10:08] http://xml.apache.org/fop/ [10:09] froud: do we really need all those formats? [10:09] froud: I mean, xsltproc can do PDF i think [10:09] enrico: am I wrong? [10:09] enrico, btw since ubuntu is using GNOME the makefile can also build for yelp [10:09] sivang, wrong [10:09] and right [10:10] froud: so there is no single thing that can make PDF in ubuntu without inclusion of FOP? [10:10] xsltproc will create an xsl:fo file [10:10] eh, and then FOP can feed on it? [10:10] that gets transformed to pdf rtf etc [10:10] rtf... [10:10] hmm [10:10] xmlto === sivang scratches [10:10] let me look more [10:11] apt-cache show xmlto [10:11] enrico: there must be something already in ubuntu allowing for at least half of the formats FOP supports. [10:11] that should do everything, take care of everything [10:11] it's in Debian, though, dunno about Ubuntu [10:11] we lose the docbook fop extensions [10:11] http://cyberelk.net/tim/xmlto/ [10:11] we will lose [10:11] froud: with xmlto, you mean? [10:12] froud: we can try suggest it for the seeds.. [10:12] I suggest to consult mako on this [10:12] true [10:12] mako : ping [10:12] he should be the best person to ask about DocBook toolchains to use in Ubuntu [10:12] yes, he already familiar with them in debian. [10:12] For DVI, PDF and PostScript output, Sebastian Rahtz's PassiveTeX is required. [10:12] I'm not sure we want to complicate the toolchain that much [10:13] enrico, yes with xmlto [10:14] echo $CLASSPATH [10:14] /usr/share/saxon-6.5.3/saxon.jar:/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/extensions/saxon65.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/build/fop.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/batik.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/xalan-2.4.1.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/xercesImpl-2.2.1.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/JimiProClasses.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/avalon-framework-cvs-20020806.jar [10:15] :/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/extensions/ [10:15] we lose this [10:16] froud: hmm [10:16] my toolchain is all java, but I can move to xsltproc for most suff [10:16] the problem is if we need PDF [10:17] do we need it? [10:17] would we like to have it? [10:17] if not then there is no problem [10:18] if yes then we need an xsl:fo rendering engine that is in ubuntu [10:18] or include one [10:19] fop is widely used [10:20] do we have to distribute an xsl:fo engine? [10:20] not sure it is needed [10:20] from user perspective they will set their own toolchain [10:20] they will by default be able to transform the xhtml [10:21] and yelp does not need anything except the db xml === ..[topic/#ubuntu-doc:ChrisH] : Merry X-Mas from the Ubuntu Documentation Team [10:21] ChrisH: marry xmas , hoo hoo hoo ! [10:21] ChrisH: Feeling better? [10:21] ;) [10:21] yup [10:21] how is our loved torf? [10:21] torf is back up... :) [10:21] mail started to work again around 3am [10:22] Just the on-mainboard-NIC is complete trash. Took me another hour to find that. [10:22] ChrisH: god, a new mb? [10:22] It negotiates at 10 Mbps/half-duplex. [10:22] yipes they still make nics like that [10:22] Sure a new mainboard. 2x new mainboard, 2x new CPU (P4/2.4 GHz), 2x new RAM [10:22] froud: yelp does fine with db/xml [10:22] sivang, yes [10:22] sivang: Everything was broken after the CPUs got trashed. [10:22] froud: but PDF is definetly something we want to support I think [10:23] froud: Indeed. Cheap stuff that keeps admins occupied. :) [10:23] OK, I will do like this [10:23] froud: did you get the branch enrico preparedyou? [10:23] I will create make targets for everything [10:23] sivang, yes [10:23] froud: many people like pdf to print and stuff.. [10:23] then you guys can decide === cenerentola [~cenerento@84.222.38.88] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:24] hows about docbook 4.3 can I use it [10:25] you have [10:25] "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd"> [10:25] want about "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd"> [10:25] hey, what's up [10:26] yo mako dude :) [10:26] marry xmas [10:26] froud: I'd say, let's think about pdf when we need it :) [10:26] ok no need for it [10:26] I'll have to leave in like 5 minutes [10:26] mako: talking about DocBook toolchain for Ubuntu [10:26] mako: froud has noted to our attention that he uses Apache FOP for his doc toolchain, [10:27] mako: we checked and FOP doesn't appear to be packaged for Ubuntu, [10:27] mako: do you know of anything already available that produces pdfs out of db? [10:27] not even in universe? [10:27] yeah, i use normal walsh's modular print and html stylesheets [10:27] docbook-xsl [10:27] mako: that's produces PDFs also? [10:27] yes [10:27] mako, it's only if we want pdf [10:28] mako, they make xsl:fo [10:28] the print stylesheets will make pdfs [10:28] you still need rendering engine === sivang thinks we need pdf. many users are used to it and it sometimes eases printing. [10:28] mako uri [10:28] trust me, they can make pdfs [10:28] froud: i use xmlto i believe [10:29] ah, that makes sense now [10:29] froud: dude, i wrote my thesis in docbook [10:29] PassiveTex [10:29] i printed it as pdfs :) [10:29] pdflatex [10:29] sure [10:29] yeah, it goes db->latex->dvi->pdflatex i believe [10:29] do we really want to complicate the toolchain like this [10:30] like what? [10:30] my chain is saxon (xsltproc), dtd, xsl, fop [10:30] so for pdf [10:30] xml > xsl:fo > pdf [10:31] but will that work with the modular stylesheets? [10:31] yes [10:31] mako: can i ask what was it all about, your thesis? [10:31] the problem is we dont have an xsl:fo rendering engin in ubuntu [10:31] cenerentola: http://mako.yukidoke.org/projects/collablit [10:31] froud: file a wishlist bug in bugzilla and assigne it to mako [10:31] mako@canonical.com [10:32] ok [10:32] i'm not convinced it's really better [10:32] all that i care about is that a pdf pops out the end [10:32] no just easier [10:32] i run a single command, i get a pdf [10:32] yes [10:32] i'm not exactly sure how much easier you're going to make it :) === sivang would prefer to avoid using java.. [10:32] I will create make file [10:32] make pdf [10:32] i already h ave one [10:33] well several === mako shrugs [10:33] mean for svn [10:33] mako: for creating how many tagets? [10:33] or what targets? [10:33] listen guys, i have to go catch a train [10:33] mako: going back to airport? :) [10:33] i'm going to barcelona [10:33] mako: again! :) [10:33] in any case, email me if you need anything more or mention my name.. i'll read the log [10:33] mako: bon voyage [10:34] froud: it can go in ubuntu if it is has non-free dependencies [10:34] mako: my regards to this wonderful city [10:34] mako, apche lic [10:34] is is java? [10:34] he he [10:34] does it run with a free java runtime? [10:34] if the answer is no, it can go in ubuntu [10:34] can do [10:35] babbaro: what course was it? [10:35] Java 1.2.x or later Runtime Environment [10:37] ok this is not important, can sort it later [10:37] froud: right: let's settle with what we can have for now, which is already enough to get started [10:37] the moment we'll be unsatisfied, we can address it [10:38] ok so patches will come on a file basis. I'll look at the image stuff Shaun was complaining about. [10:38] I will put patches in bugzilla [10:38] tis better, right [10:39] froud: thanks, I don't want to piss him off [10:39] :) [10:39] he was like "dude, you are abusing docbook in a never to be seen before way" :)) [10:41] you do have some strange things in this source [10:41] but hey we'll fix it :-0 [10:41] :-) [10:41] merry xmaaaaaas [10:42] african greetings to everyone === froud is off to do some labor [10:43] froud: marry xmas! === sivang is off to get some food === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:42] does someone know the name of a web-map? i mean one of those maps, that show something's [like a surname] concentration.. === sid77 [~sid77@ppp-20-175.30-151.libero.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:52] hi === froud [~sean@ndn-165-138-83.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sm [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-057-032.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === cenerentola [~cenerento@84.222.38.88] has joined #ubuntu-doc === [froud] [~sean@ndn-165-138-83.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === [froud] [~sean@ndn-165-138-83.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === froud [~sean@ndn-165-138-83.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-82.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ChrisH [~chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc