makosivang: hey there.. i'm here now.. just arrived home01:53
sivangmako: ah ok, when you finish reading -doc postingon the mailing list, tell me :)01:56
sivangmako: we have been approached by a new buddy (nick:froud) few days ago, about somet stuff regarding the repo and else,01:56
sivangsee the ml then we'll taklk :)01:56
sivangwelcome home, btw :)01:56
sivangWheller is his last name, can't recall the first :)01:58
sivangmako: anyway, on thing very importan which can be brought before you read over the channel backlog or ml, is that we must have a canonical hosted doc repo :)02:08
sivangmako: as hornbeck is on vacation for xmas in vegas, the svn repo is practically down for all work, something very bad and disappointing for all our contributors :(02:09
sivangmako: we need the repo (be it svn/baz/arch) hosted inhouse canonical, and with soem techincally able care given to it.02:09
sivangmako: we need to start treating the UDP as a serious thing or else nothing will happen..02:10
makosivang: ok. that makes seneses02:14
makosivang: the issue here is that it requires a machine with substantially different access control than anything we have currently02:14
makosivang: i can push for it and i think it can happen but it's going to require some new rules.. which is always difficult02:15
sivangmako: ok, so if we switch to baz it's no hassle?02:16
sivangmako: I mean, we already have it part of launchpad 02:16
sivangmako: is the orig repo being on svn off issue to this?02:17
makoi guess i don't completely understand..02:19
sivangmako: let's take this one step at the time :)02:19
sivangmako: btw, would you prefer discussing this tommrowo?02:19
makothe choice of the version control system should not affect the access control issues02:19
makothat might be good.. i've been up for quite a while :)02:19
sivangyes, I figured so,02:19
sivangso, lemme know when it will be more comfortable for you to discuss this,02:20
sivangand another thing I'm concenred about is -02:20
sivangeach time a new person shows up and wants t "join" the doc team,02:20
sivangthe all too old and already "agreed" upon stuff comes back :)02:21
sivanglike, let's make a leader,02:21
sivanglet's work like that,02:21
sivangor this,02:21
sivangI'd like to maybe think up with somethin to clear this up.02:21
sivang:) when you are less tired ofcourse :L)02:21
sivangI guess I am asking how do I say a new guy "This is waht we decided, this is how it is _going_ to be"02:22
sivangmako: still there?02:29
makosivang: yeah02:30
makoi think a docteam FAQ might be good02:30
makothat's how we deal with the problem in the larger ubuntu project02:30
sivangmako: I'm interested to know what sorts of access issues setting up a server has, if we use the baz web interface it should solve them all - isn't that what baz is supposed to do?02:32
sivangmako: but if you're way tired, let's leave it for now and talk again some other time that you are online and less tired :)02:32
makosivang: the web interface doesn't help you write to it02:32
sivangmako: so what does it do?02:32
makowell, perhaps with webdav you can.. i'm not familiar with the access control issues02:33
sivangmako: I see. Well, this is something we can maybe bring to the TB for discussion?02:33
makobut i know that so far, the way it's handled with with accounts on the machine, with a single gpg keyring and an email interface, or something similar02:33
makothis isn't a technical board issues02:34
sivangmako: you mean commiting stuff using en email interface?02:34
makothis is a canonical machine administration issue02:34
sivangI am not sure I understadn that fully.02:34
makosivang: it's complex.. too complex for what we want02:34
makowe can pick this up soon.. i gotta eat :)02:35
makoand then crash in all likelihood02:35
sivangit's just the docteam seems a very little issue from the current point of view,02:36
sivangand well, it may be verywell so, we just need to know where are we standing.02:36
sivangI'm ok with canonical/ubuntu/anybody saying, let's release the docs issue altogether, leave it proper for the community at large and say we don't even really need a specialized ubuntu doc team..02:37
=== sivang may be talking out of plain frustration. No offense :)
sivangI just won't approach new members any more...It's a bit embarresing telling them "Hmm, the doc repo is down today - could you ping me again in a week?" :)02:39
sivangthis looks not good, from the new contributors point of view..anyway, go to eat.02:39
sivangI'm sorry :)02:39
sivangfor all my complains02:39
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
sivanghey enrico 02:59
sivangback again?02:59
enricoLots of activity for christmas!03:11
makoenrico: merry xmas :)03:17
sivangmako: so you've read all my complaints? :)03:18
makosivang: yes03:19
makono, i understand that it is frustring in regards to the repo03:19
makowe'll work out a solution to that03:19
makoman.. it's not even 930pm and i'm *exhausted*03:20
makojet lag...03:20
sivangok, I hope  this will happen fast not like the last time it was said that it's being worked on.03:20
enricoHello.  What are you guys talking about?03:21
enricoCould you please update me?03:21
enrico(I just wake up, and its sunday...)03:21
sivangenrico: eh the good life :)03:21
makoenrico: sivang is frusterated because he thinks docteam work is paralized by the current state of hornbeck and his repository03:22
sivangenrico: Well, the last new guy that approached the docteam (you've talked with him regarding the spcial branch you made for him of the repo) 03:22
enricooh, but hornbeck is back again now, and the repo works03:23
sivangenrico: it is?03:23
=== sivang checks
makoenrico: although the criticism seems to be more with what sivan sees as the attitude that canonical is taking toward thehe doc team03:23
makoenrico: not putting resources etc to get a repository for members, etc03:23
enricosivang: yes, just checked.  Have you read the list?  There was a snow storm and Hornbeck's house had a long blackout that exausted the UPS and so the machine never went up03:24
makoi think you guys need a distributed revision control system03:24
=== enrico larts mako
enricoBut I posted in the list about that, too: Elmo understood that we didn't need the migration because we wanted to go to baz anyway.  However, 03:24
sivangenrico: maybe we can make this repo more sustainable in means of uptime?03:24
enriconoone told him about the results of the docteam BOF03:24
enricoSo I did tell him03:24
enricoHe's happy with the migration, but he's in vacation, so it won't happen until next year03:25
sivangso should I start learning baz?03:25
makobaz is a moving target03:25
enricoehi, people, we have a working repo now, Hornbeck is at home03:25
sivangenrico: until next time he goes on vacation?03:25
makothat sounds like a short term and a long term plan03:25
enricoThe repo is set for migration as soon as Elmo gets back to work03:25
makoenrico: how is access control going to be done?03:26
enricomako: I would imagine access via DAV and people's accounts on an htpasswd, but that'll probably be negotiated with Elmo03:26
makoenrico: i was telling sivan that this was the only thing i was not sure about..but because it will be different than the way it being done in other places, it will need to be worked out03:27
sivangmako: ok, I am now relaxed :)03:27
makobut that said, even if it were  ea matter of posting changesets to a list and having a couple people merging contributed changesets in, it would be a huge plus03:27
enricoI've been posting about this recently... how come people don't read my mails?03:27
=== enrico looks for a link
makoenrico: btw, i played with svk some more.. it a great idea :)03:28
sivangenrico: I've read all the -doc postings, didn't see your yet.03:28
enricomako: eh.  At the moment, I'd suggest to people who can handle a bit more complexity to try svk.  However, I'm reluctant to suggest it in a mail to the list, as everyone's pretty sick of seeing names of revision control systems popping around03:29
enricofor Sean, what I did was a local branch in my svk mirror: as soon as he posts his patches, I can integrate them in his branch and try a smerge03:29
enricothat's neat, imo03:30
=== mako nods
enricosivang: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2004-December/000767.html (look for the word "elmo")03:31
enricomaybe my messages are too long03:31
makoi have that problem03:31
makosomeone gave me a suggestion03:31
mako(1) write the message (2) write a summary of the message (3) throw away everything except the summary03:32
mako(plus any essential details)03:32
sivangenrico: noted03:32
sivangok, so I will be waiting for after new years :)03:34
sivangnight all !03:34
enricomako: oh, nice idea :)03:34
enricosivang: night!03:34
sivang(4:35am here)03:34
=== sivang takes a mental note - read the email more carefully
enricosivang: :)03:37
=== mako just fell asleep at the computer
makoi'm going to take the hint03:39
makogood nigth guys03:39
sivangnight mako03:40
=== sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc
enricofroud: around?06:39
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-41.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== [froud] [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
[froud] African greetings08:41
[froud] mako,  ping08:47
=== [froud] is going to the zoo for the best part of today. Will be back later
=== froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudAfrican greetings01:19
froudenrico, you tuned?01:21
enricofroud: kind of01:32
enricoI'm very tired01:32
froudneed another holiday01:32
froudwell, are you up to sorting the svn01:33
froudwarning: participation in open source projects can lead to sleep deprivation01:35
froudguess not01:40
=== froud goes of to swim
enricohave a nice swim!  We can do it tomorrow01:43
=== mercurus [~mercurus@PIPP-p-144-134-201-225.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudubuntulog help06:31
froudguess its not a bot?06:31
=== froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== froud is away: Off doing something else
=== skyrider [~skyrider@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== froud is back (gone 00:54:18)
=== froud is away: Off doing something else
sivanghel all10:07
sivangam back for a while10:08

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