[01:53] <mako> sivang: hey there.. i'm here now.. just arrived home
[01:56] <sivang> mako: ah ok, when you finish reading -doc postingon the mailing list, tell me :)
[01:56] <sivang> mako: we have been approached by a new buddy (nick:froud) few days ago, about somet stuff regarding the repo and else,
[01:56] <sivang> see the ml then we'll taklk :)
[01:56] <sivang> welcome home, btw :)
[01:58] <sivang> Wheller is his last name, can't recall the first :)
[02:08] <sivang> mako: anyway, on thing very importan which can be brought before you read over the channel backlog or ml, is that we must have a canonical hosted doc repo :)
[02:08] <sivang> quick!
[02:09] <sivang> mako: as hornbeck is on vacation for xmas in vegas, the svn repo is practically down for all work, something very bad and disappointing for all our contributors :(
[02:09] <sivang> mako: we need the repo (be it svn/baz/arch) hosted inhouse canonical, and with soem techincally able care given to it.
[02:10] <sivang> mako: we need to start treating the UDP as a serious thing or else nothing will happen..
[02:14] <mako> sivang: ok. that makes seneses
[02:14] <mako> sivang: the issue here is that it requires a machine with substantially different access control than anything we have currently
[02:15] <mako> sivang: i can push for it and i think it can happen but it's going to require some new rules.. which is always difficult
[02:16] <sivang> mako: ok, so if we switch to baz it's no hassle?
[02:16] <sivang> mako: I mean, we already have it part of launchpad 
[02:17] <sivang> mako: is the orig repo being on svn off issue to this?
[02:19] <mako> i guess i don't completely understand..
[02:19] <sivang> mako: let's take this one step at the time :)
[02:19] <sivang> mako: btw, would you prefer discussing this tommrowo?
[02:19] <mako> the choice of the version control system should not affect the access control issues
[02:19] <mako> that might be good.. i've been up for quite a while :)
[02:19] <sivang> yes, I figured so,
[02:19] <sivang> :)
[02:20] <sivang> so, lemme know when it will be more comfortable for you to discuss this,
[02:20] <sivang> and another thing I'm concenred about is -
[02:20] <sivang> each time a new person shows up and wants t "join" the doc team,
[02:21] <sivang> the all too old and already "agreed" upon stuff comes back :)
[02:21] <sivang> like, let's make a leader,
[02:21] <sivang> let's work like that,
[02:21] <sivang> or this,
[02:21] <sivang> I'd like to maybe think up with somethin to clear this up.
[02:21] <sivang> :) when you are less tired ofcourse :L)
[02:22] <sivang> I guess I am asking how do I say a new guy "This is waht we decided, this is how it is _going_ to be"
[02:22] <sivang> :)
[02:29] <sivang> mako: still there?
[02:30] <mako> sivang: yeah
[02:30] <mako> i think a docteam FAQ might be good
[02:30] <mako> that's how we deal with the problem in the larger ubuntu project
[02:32] <sivang> mako: I'm interested to know what sorts of access issues setting up a server has, if we use the baz web interface it should solve them all - isn't that what baz is supposed to do?
[02:32] <sivang> mako: but if you're way tired, let's leave it for now and talk again some other time that you are online and less tired :)
[02:32] <mako> sivang: the web interface doesn't help you write to it
[02:32] <sivang> mako: so what does it do?
[02:33] <mako> well, perhaps with webdav you can.. i'm not familiar with the access control issues
[02:33] <sivang> mako: I see. Well, this is something we can maybe bring to the TB for discussion?
[02:33] <mako> but i know that so far, the way it's handled with with accounts on the machine, with a single gpg keyring and an email interface, or something similar
[02:34] <mako> this isn't a technical board issues
[02:34] <sivang> mako: you mean commiting stuff using en email interface?
[02:34] <mako> this is a canonical machine administration issue
[02:34] <sivang> I am not sure I understadn that fully.
[02:34] <mako> sivang: it's complex.. too complex for what we want
[02:35] <mako> we can pick this up soon.. i gotta eat :)
[02:35] <mako> and then crash in all likelihood
[02:36] <sivang> ok
[02:36] <sivang> it's just the docteam seems a very little issue from the current point of view,
[02:36] <sivang> and well, it may be verywell so, we just need to know where are we standing.
[02:37] <sivang> I'm ok with canonical/ubuntu/anybody saying, let's release the docs issue altogether, leave it proper for the community at large and say we don't even really need a specialized ubuntu doc team..
[02:39] <sivang> I just won't approach new members any more...It's a bit embarresing telling them "Hmm, the doc repo is down today - could you ping me again in a week?" :)
[02:39] <sivang> this looks not good, from the new contributors point of view..anyway, go to eat.
[02:39] <sivang> I'm sorry :)
[02:39] <sivang> for all my complains
[02:43] <sivang> *comlaints
[02:59] <sivang> hey enrico 
[02:59] <sivang> :)
[02:59] <sivang> back again?
[03:11] <enrico> Hello!
[03:11] <enrico> Lots of activity for christmas!
[03:17] <mako> enrico: merry xmas :)
[03:18] <sivang> mako: so you've read all my complaints? :)
[03:19] <mako> sivang: yes
[03:19] <mako> no, i understand that it is frustring in regards to the repo
[03:19] <mako> we'll work out a solution to that
[03:20] <mako> man.. it's not even 930pm and i'm *exhausted*
[03:20] <mako> jet lag...
[03:20] <sivang> ok, I hope  this will happen fast not like the last time it was said that it's being worked on.
[03:21] <enrico> Hello.  What are you guys talking about?
[03:21] <enrico> Could you please update me?
[03:21] <enrico> (I just wake up, and its sunday...)
[03:21] <enrico> s/wake/woke/
[03:21] <sivang> enrico: eh the good life :)
[03:22] <mako> enrico: sivang is frusterated because he thinks docteam work is paralized by the current state of hornbeck and his repository
[03:22] <sivang> enrico: Well, the last new guy that approached the docteam (you've talked with him regarding the spcial branch you made for him of the repo) 
[03:23] <enrico> oh, but hornbeck is back again now, and the repo works
[03:23] <sivang> enrico: it is?
[03:23] <mako> enrico: although the criticism seems to be more with what sivan sees as the attitude that canonical is taking toward thehe doc team
[03:23] <mako> enrico: not putting resources etc to get a repository for members, etc
[03:24] <enrico> sivang: yes, just checked.  Have you read the list?  There was a snow storm and Hornbeck's house had a long blackout that exausted the UPS and so the machine never went up
[03:24] <mako> i think you guys need a distributed revision control system
[03:24] <enrico> But I posted in the list about that, too: Elmo understood that we didn't need the migration because we wanted to go to baz anyway.  However, 
[03:24] <sivang> enrico: maybe we can make this repo more sustainable in means of uptime?
[03:24] <enrico> noone told him about the results of the docteam BOF
[03:24] <enrico> So I did tell him
[03:25] <enrico> He's happy with the migration, but he's in vacation, so it won't happen until next year
[03:25] <sivang> so should I start learning baz?
[03:25] <mako> baz is a moving target
[03:25] <enrico> ehi, people, we have a working repo now, Hornbeck is at home
[03:25] <sivang> enrico: until next time he goes on vacation?
[03:25] <mako> that sounds like a short term and a long term plan
[03:25] <enrico> The repo is set for migration as soon as Elmo gets back to work
[03:25] <mako> cool
[03:26] <mako> enrico: how is access control going to be done?
[03:26] <enrico> mako: I would imagine access via DAV and people's accounts on an htpasswd, but that'll probably be negotiated with Elmo
[03:27] <mako> enrico: i was telling sivan that this was the only thing i was not sure about..but because it will be different than the way it being done in other places, it will need to be worked out
[03:27] <sivang> mako: ok, I am now relaxed :)
[03:27] <mako> but that said, even if it were  ea matter of posting changesets to a list and having a couple people merging contributed changesets in, it would be a huge plus
[03:27] <enrico> I've been posting about this recently... how come people don't read my mails?
[03:28] <mako> enrico: btw, i played with svk some more.. it a great idea :)
[03:28] <sivang> enrico: I've read all the -doc postings, didn't see your yet.
[03:29] <enrico> mako: eh.  At the moment, I'd suggest to people who can handle a bit more complexity to try svk.  However, I'm reluctant to suggest it in a mail to the list, as everyone's pretty sick of seeing names of revision control systems popping around
[03:29] <enrico> for Sean, what I did was a local branch in my svk mirror: as soon as he posts his patches, I can integrate them in his branch and try a smerge
[03:30] <enrico> that's neat, imo
[03:31] <enrico> sivang: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2004-December/000767.html (look for the word "elmo")
[03:31] <enrico> maybe my messages are too long
[03:31] <mako> i have that problem
[03:31] <mako> someone gave me a suggestion
[03:32] <mako> (1) write the message (2) write a summary of the message (3) throw away everything except the summary
[03:32] <mako> (plus any essential details)
[03:32] <sivang> enrico: noted
[03:34] <sivang> ok, so I will be waiting for after new years :)
[03:34] <sivang> night all !
[03:34] <enrico> mako: oh, nice idea :)
[03:34] <enrico> sivang: night!
[03:34] <sivang> (4:35am here)
[03:37] <enrico> sivang: :)
[03:39] <mako> i'm going to take the hint
[03:39] <mako> good nigth guys
[03:40] <sivang> night mako
[06:39] <enrico> froud: around?
[08:41] <[froud] > African greetings
[08:47] <[froud] > mako,  ping
[01:19] <froud> African greetings
[01:21] <froud> enrico, you tuned?
[01:32] <enrico> froud: kind of
[01:32] <enrico> I'm very tired
[01:32] <froud> :-)
[01:32] <froud> need another holiday
[01:33] <froud> well, are you up to sorting the svn
[01:35] <froud> warning: participation in open source projects can lead to sleep deprivation
[01:40] <froud> guess not
[01:43] <enrico> have a nice swim!  We can do it tomorrow
[06:31] <froud> ubuntulog help
[06:31] <froud> guess its not a bot?
[10:07] <sivang> hel all
[10:07] <sivang> hey
[10:08] <sivang> am back for a while