[01:53] sivang: hey there.. i'm here now.. just arrived home [01:56] mako: ah ok, when you finish reading -doc postingon the mailing list, tell me :) [01:56] mako: we have been approached by a new buddy (nick:froud) few days ago, about somet stuff regarding the repo and else, [01:56] see the ml then we'll taklk :) [01:56] welcome home, btw :) [01:58] Wheller is his last name, can't recall the first :) [02:08] mako: anyway, on thing very importan which can be brought before you read over the channel backlog or ml, is that we must have a canonical hosted doc repo :) [02:08] quick! [02:09] mako: as hornbeck is on vacation for xmas in vegas, the svn repo is practically down for all work, something very bad and disappointing for all our contributors :( [02:09] mako: we need the repo (be it svn/baz/arch) hosted inhouse canonical, and with soem techincally able care given to it. [02:10] mako: we need to start treating the UDP as a serious thing or else nothing will happen.. [02:14] sivang: ok. that makes seneses [02:14] sivang: the issue here is that it requires a machine with substantially different access control than anything we have currently [02:15] sivang: i can push for it and i think it can happen but it's going to require some new rules.. which is always difficult [02:16] mako: ok, so if we switch to baz it's no hassle? [02:16] mako: I mean, we already have it part of launchpad [02:17] mako: is the orig repo being on svn off issue to this? [02:19] i guess i don't completely understand.. [02:19] mako: let's take this one step at the time :) [02:19] mako: btw, would you prefer discussing this tommrowo? [02:19] the choice of the version control system should not affect the access control issues [02:19] that might be good.. i've been up for quite a while :) [02:19] yes, I figured so, [02:19] :) [02:20] so, lemme know when it will be more comfortable for you to discuss this, [02:20] and another thing I'm concenred about is - [02:20] each time a new person shows up and wants t "join" the doc team, [02:21] the all too old and already "agreed" upon stuff comes back :) [02:21] like, let's make a leader, [02:21] let's work like that, [02:21] or this, [02:21] I'd like to maybe think up with somethin to clear this up. [02:21] :) when you are less tired ofcourse :L) [02:22] I guess I am asking how do I say a new guy "This is waht we decided, this is how it is _going_ to be" [02:22] :) [02:29] mako: still there? [02:30] sivang: yeah [02:30] i think a docteam FAQ might be good [02:30] that's how we deal with the problem in the larger ubuntu project [02:32] mako: I'm interested to know what sorts of access issues setting up a server has, if we use the baz web interface it should solve them all - isn't that what baz is supposed to do? [02:32] mako: but if you're way tired, let's leave it for now and talk again some other time that you are online and less tired :) [02:32] sivang: the web interface doesn't help you write to it [02:32] mako: so what does it do? [02:33] well, perhaps with webdav you can.. i'm not familiar with the access control issues [02:33] mako: I see. Well, this is something we can maybe bring to the TB for discussion? [02:33] but i know that so far, the way it's handled with with accounts on the machine, with a single gpg keyring and an email interface, or something similar [02:34] this isn't a technical board issues [02:34] mako: you mean commiting stuff using en email interface? [02:34] this is a canonical machine administration issue [02:34] I am not sure I understadn that fully. [02:34] sivang: it's complex.. too complex for what we want [02:35] we can pick this up soon.. i gotta eat :) [02:35] and then crash in all likelihood [02:36] ok [02:36] it's just the docteam seems a very little issue from the current point of view, [02:36] and well, it may be verywell so, we just need to know where are we standing. [02:37] I'm ok with canonical/ubuntu/anybody saying, let's release the docs issue altogether, leave it proper for the community at large and say we don't even really need a specialized ubuntu doc team.. === sivang may be talking out of plain frustration. No offense :) [02:39] I just won't approach new members any more...It's a bit embarresing telling them "Hmm, the doc repo is down today - could you ping me again in a week?" :) [02:39] this looks not good, from the new contributors point of view..anyway, go to eat. [02:39] I'm sorry :) [02:39] for all my complains [02:43] *comlaints === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:59] hey enrico [02:59] :) [02:59] back again? [03:11] Hello! [03:11] Lots of activity for christmas! [03:17] enrico: merry xmas :) [03:18] mako: so you've read all my complaints? :) [03:19] sivang: yes [03:19] no, i understand that it is frustring in regards to the repo [03:19] we'll work out a solution to that [03:20] man.. it's not even 930pm and i'm *exhausted* [03:20] jet lag... [03:20] ok, I hope this will happen fast not like the last time it was said that it's being worked on. [03:21] Hello. What are you guys talking about? [03:21] Could you please update me? [03:21] (I just wake up, and its sunday...) [03:21] s/wake/woke/ [03:21] enrico: eh the good life :) [03:22] enrico: sivang is frusterated because he thinks docteam work is paralized by the current state of hornbeck and his repository [03:22] enrico: Well, the last new guy that approached the docteam (you've talked with him regarding the spcial branch you made for him of the repo) [03:23] oh, but hornbeck is back again now, and the repo works [03:23] enrico: it is? === sivang checks [03:23] enrico: although the criticism seems to be more with what sivan sees as the attitude that canonical is taking toward thehe doc team [03:23] enrico: not putting resources etc to get a repository for members, etc [03:24] sivang: yes, just checked. Have you read the list? There was a snow storm and Hornbeck's house had a long blackout that exausted the UPS and so the machine never went up [03:24] i think you guys need a distributed revision control system === enrico larts mako [03:24] But I posted in the list about that, too: Elmo understood that we didn't need the migration because we wanted to go to baz anyway. However, [03:24] enrico: maybe we can make this repo more sustainable in means of uptime? [03:24] noone told him about the results of the docteam BOF [03:24] So I did tell him [03:25] He's happy with the migration, but he's in vacation, so it won't happen until next year [03:25] so should I start learning baz? [03:25] baz is a moving target [03:25] ehi, people, we have a working repo now, Hornbeck is at home [03:25] enrico: until next time he goes on vacation? [03:25] that sounds like a short term and a long term plan [03:25] The repo is set for migration as soon as Elmo gets back to work [03:25] cool [03:26] enrico: how is access control going to be done? [03:26] mako: I would imagine access via DAV and people's accounts on an htpasswd, but that'll probably be negotiated with Elmo [03:27] enrico: i was telling sivan that this was the only thing i was not sure about..but because it will be different than the way it being done in other places, it will need to be worked out [03:27] mako: ok, I am now relaxed :) [03:27] but that said, even if it were ea matter of posting changesets to a list and having a couple people merging contributed changesets in, it would be a huge plus [03:27] I've been posting about this recently... how come people don't read my mails? === enrico looks for a link [03:28] enrico: btw, i played with svk some more.. it a great idea :) [03:28] enrico: I've read all the -doc postings, didn't see your yet. [03:29] mako: eh. At the moment, I'd suggest to people who can handle a bit more complexity to try svk. However, I'm reluctant to suggest it in a mail to the list, as everyone's pretty sick of seeing names of revision control systems popping around [03:29] for Sean, what I did was a local branch in my svk mirror: as soon as he posts his patches, I can integrate them in his branch and try a smerge [03:30] that's neat, imo === mako nods [03:31] sivang: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2004-December/000767.html (look for the word "elmo") [03:31] maybe my messages are too long [03:31] i have that problem [03:31] someone gave me a suggestion [03:32] (1) write the message (2) write a summary of the message (3) throw away everything except the summary [03:32] (plus any essential details) [03:32] enrico: noted [03:34] ok, so I will be waiting for after new years :) [03:34] night all ! [03:34] mako: oh, nice idea :) [03:34] sivang: night! [03:34] (4:35am here) === sivang takes a mental note - read the email more carefully [03:37] sivang: :) === mako just fell asleep at the computer [03:39] i'm going to take the hint [03:39] good nigth guys [03:40] night mako === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:39] froud: around? === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-41.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === [froud] [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:41] <[froud] > African greetings [08:47] <[froud] > mako, ping === [froud] is going to the zoo for the best part of today. Will be back later === froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:19] African greetings [01:21] enrico, you tuned? [01:32] froud: kind of [01:32] I'm very tired [01:32] :-) [01:32] need another holiday [01:33] well, are you up to sorting the svn [01:35] warning: participation in open source projects can lead to sleep deprivation [01:40] guess not === froud goes of to swim [01:43] have a nice swim! We can do it tomorrow === mercurus [~mercurus@PIPP-p-144-134-201-225.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:31] ubuntulog help [06:31] guess its not a bot? === froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud is away: Off doing something else === skyrider [~skyrider@195.128.178.150] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud is back (gone 00:54:18) === froud is away: Off doing something else [10:07] hel all [10:07] hey [10:08] am back for a while