[12:41] <usual> is gparted not in hoary because it isn't in debian unstable?
[12:44] <lamont> usual: that would be one reason
[12:44] <usual> ok
[12:44] <lamont> generally speaking,  things come from debian unstable
[12:45] <lamont> unless they're feature goals (like gnome)
[12:45] <usual> I see
[12:48] <usual> lamont, ubuntu hoary should release with the icon in the menu in this ss
[12:48] <usual> http://files.subpop.net/daily-ss.jpg
[01:46] <sivang> Kamion: ping
[02:08] <Riddell> Can anyone say what went wrong with this build?  it's got a build dep of automake1.7 but it's trying to find automake1.  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdesdk/4:3.3.2-1ubuntu1/kdesdk_4:3.3.2-1ubuntu1_20041226-0237-i386-failed
[02:10] <lamont> Riddell: heh.  whoever uploaded it needs to fix the Build-Depends line
[02:11] <lamont> (there is no 'automake1.' package...)
[02:14] <Riddell> lamont: I protest, the Build-Deps line definatly says Build-Depends: automake1.7
[02:15] <lamont> ** Using build dependencies supplied by package:
[02:15] <lamont> Build-Depends: automake1. , binutils-dev, bison, debhelper (>> 4.0.0), flex, kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.3.2), kdepim-dev (>= 4:3.3.2), libdb4.2-dev, libkcal2-dev (>= 4:3.3.2)
[02:15] <Kamion> lamont: pong
[02:15] <Kamion> sivang: pong
[02:15] <lamont> Kamion: installing an hppa box with debian, was trying to bludgeon my way past the missing pieces of my local mirror...
[02:15] <lamont> but finally just pointed it off-site to get the d-i its.
[02:16] <lamont> bits
[02:16] <Kamion> fair enough
[02:16] <Kamion> sivang: compare /etc/environment with /etc/locale.gen
[02:16] <Riddell> lamont: who can I ask about getting access to be able to upload packages?
[02:16] <lamont> Kamion: but it's so slow it hurts. :-(
[02:17] <lamont> Riddell: tell me which package it should build-dep on, and I'll upload it
[02:17] <Kamion> Riddell: get Chris Halls to recommend you
[02:17] <lamont> Riddell: and what Kamion said.
[02:18] <Kamion> $ zgrep Build-Depends kdesdk_3.3.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[02:18] <Kamion> -Build-Depends: automake1.7, binutils-dev, bison, debhelper (>> 4.0.0), flex, kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.3.0), libdb4.2-dev, libkcal2-dev (>= 4:3.3.0)
[02:18] <Kamion> +Build-Depends: automake1. , binutils-dev, bison, debhelper (>> 4.0.0), flex, kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.3.2), kdepim-dev (>= 4:3.3.2), libdb4.2-dev, libkcal2-dev (>= 4:3.3.2)
[02:18] <lamont> Riddell: how many other pieces are having issues...
[02:19] <sivang> Kamion: when do you think a ubuntu installer POT files would be available in rosetta?
[02:23] <Riddell> Kamion: very strange, that's not what I have in my kdesdk_3.3.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz I gave to amu 
[02:23] <lamont> Riddell: 1.7, yes?>
[02:23] <Riddell> Kamion: who do I get Chris Halls to recommend me to?
[02:23] <lamont> Riddell: but definitely in the archive as automake1.
[02:23] <bob2> is there a good reason for it to be bulid-dep'ing on automake at all?
[02:23] <lamont> Riddell: eventually to the technical board
[02:23] <Kamion> sivang: good question, it's somewhat on my to-do list. In the meantime there's http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/installer-po/, which has most of the first-stage interesting bits
[02:23] <Riddell> lamont: actually 1.9 may be better
[02:23] <lamont> bob2: many things are debatable.
[02:23] <Kamion> sivang: (that URL's regenerating at the moment)
[02:24] <lamont> Riddell: pick one.  I won't be able to build before I toss it at the archive...
[02:24] <Kamion> Riddell: as lamont says, community council and tech board; note that our sysadmins are 1.5-out-of-2 on holiday at the moment
[02:25] <sivang> Kamion: can country teams use this url to upload into rosetta?
[02:25] <Kamion> sivang: please don't do so until I give the OK
[02:25] <Kamion> I don't want random translations floating about without anything coherent being done about them
[02:25] <sivang> Kamion: Ok, no prob, so in the meanwhile I don't see much point in taking them at all :) I will just wait for it to be put there by you. 
[02:26] <Kamion> at the moment the only semi-official reason that URL exists is because a third-party translation company is getting up to speed
[02:26] <Kamion> I'll probably get it polished up after New Year
[02:27] <Kamion> Rosetta's definitely a goal for it once I'm sure it's all accurate source
[02:27] <lamont> Kamion: just on the off chance you didn't know (duh) d-i at 9600-serial _SUCKS_
[02:27] <sivang> Kamion: what languages are they  going to be doing? I've talked with the pro-translation cordinator on Mataro..:)
[02:28] <Kamion> sivang: dunno actually, I guess I'll find out
[02:28] <Kamion> Xhosa was mentioned but I think she wasn't entirely sure herself yet
[02:28] <lamont> Riddell:  you want 1.9 or 1.7?
[02:28] <sivang> Kamion: Xhosa = Adi ?
[02:30] <Riddell> lamont: automake1.9 please
[02:31] <Riddell> lamont: what's wrong with 5meg sources?
[02:31] <lamont> they're large
[02:31] <sivang> anyway, I'm out. Night all.
[02:31] <lamont> night sivang 
[02:31] <sivang> Night lamnot
[02:31] <ogra> night sivang
[02:31] <sivang> night ogra 
[02:32] <Kamion> sivang: right
[02:33] <sivang> Kamion: k:) night
[02:34] <lamont> Riddell: uploaded
[02:34] <lamont> sadly, it'll be 30 minutes before the buildds take it
[02:35] <Riddell> lamont: thanks
[02:35] <lamont> np
[02:35] <lamont> Kamion: and for the record, tftp booting the business card ISO doesn't work. :-)
[02:36] <lamont> Kamion: well, it works.  But it doesn't do what I wanted. :(
[02:37] <Kamion> can't you tftp-boot the vmlinu[xz] /initrd.gz?
[02:37] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - actually went with 'boot.img' :)
[02:38] <lamont> sadly, that lacks all the pretty installer pieces, as does the local mirror. :(
[02:38] <lamont> what I really could have used was a way to tell d-i that /cdrom was populated, and to just get on with life.
[02:38] <lamont> (netcat and tar are your friend, you see...)
[02:39] <Kamion> that's more the job of hd-media image types
[02:39] <Kamion> and iso-scan
[02:40] <lamont> I find that the hppa port is making a wonderful harness for testing my per-suite changes in the buildd's...
[02:40] <lamont> Kamion: well, yes... it was just an idea I had before I punted.
[02:43] <lamont> Kamion: ok.  now how do I change the mirror location before istalling the base system?
[02:43] <Kamion> you didn't get choose-mirror presented to you by default?
[02:44] <lamont> yeah.  I need to change the answer
[02:44] <lamont> or the install will take until next weke
[02:44] <Kamion> go back to the main menu and select that item
[02:44] <lamont> week, even
[02:44] <lamont> doh
[02:46] <lamont> and it automagically jumps back into installing the base system.  I guess that's cool
[02:46] <Kamion> dependency-driven menu :)
[02:46] <lamont> ah
[02:54] <lamont> of course, the downside was that the only way I had to get back to the main menu was to yank the rug out from under the download....
[03:09] <lamont> Kamion: tomorrow I'll get the connectors I need, and get my cyclades box installe.d
[03:36] <Kamion> debian-kernel seems to be moving towards the one-source-for-all-architectures model fairly rapidly now
[03:36] <Kamion> (of course, they always wanted to)
[04:09] <calc> cool so they are helping upstream get the archs more in sync?
[04:18] <Kamion> I think they always have been, just coordinating better now
[04:19] <Kamion> but also just putting all the patches in one source package; it's not as if it's hard to #ifdef them for one architecture if necessary
[04:27] <calc> yea
[04:27] <calc> putting it all in one source will lead them to wanting to push as much as possible upstream though ;)
[04:27] <calc> which is a good thing
[07:52] <fabbione> morning
[07:54] <bob2> http://ubuntu-bp.sourceforge.net/
[07:54] <fabbione> bp?
[07:56] <bob2> "
[07:56] <bob2> The Ubuntu Backports project's goal is to provide a stable AND up-to-date Ubuntu Linux system by backporting desktop applications from Ubuntu's Development branches and Debian Sid."
[07:56] <fabbione> amen
[07:58] <calc> hahahaha
[07:58] <calc> backports are evil
[07:58] <bob2> and they want donations to support their "apt-get source -b firefox" work
[08:24] <calc> hehe
[08:32] <Treenaks> *sigh*
[10:09] <enrico> Hello.  Is someone messing with the wiki?  I'm now allowed to log in anymore :(
[11:03] <fabbione> hey ogra
[12:16] <sid77> hi
[12:30] <stuNNed> mozilla-thunderbird has been out for a few weeks now, any idea when it will make it into ubuntu unstable?
[12:33] <stuNNed> n/m sorry about that, it's not in sid yet
[01:12] <ogra> hey fabbione
[01:12] <fabbione> hola
[01:12] <ogra> wow thats latency now
[01:13] <ogra> had a nice christmas ?
[01:13] <sivang> ogra: low latency patches to the stock kenrel? where?:)
[01:13] <fabbione> i hate xmas
[01:13] <fabbione> no
[01:14] <ogra> me too, so i stayed at home and set up the imac i broght from the company to check my ubuntu builds of the screensaver.....GF is at her mother 400km away....
[01:15] <ogra> sivang: i heard thats possible with the right HW
[01:15] <ogra> sivang: but dont rely on me , i'm just waking up
[01:15] <ogra> sivang: ...and i'm very slow in this :)
[01:17] <sivang> ogra: ok heh :)
[01:17] <sivang> fabbione: why you hate christmas? 
[01:18] <fabbione> sivang: several reasons.. too long to explain here
[01:18] <sivang> fabbione: k :)
[01:18] <ogra> fabbione: just see it as some free days :)
[01:19] <fabbione> ogra: i can't really... my gf loves xmas and she pushed me around all the 3/4 days in real pain
[01:19] <ogra> argh
[01:19] <ogra> ok....
[01:19] <fabbione> http://www.fabbione.net/cgi-bin/blog.cgi
[01:19] <fabbione> ogra: that might give you an idea ;)
[01:21] <fabbione> it's interesting to see how many people read URL's that are not for them :-)
[01:21] <ogra> fabbione: looks like i got the opposite here.....my GF is gone and i can finally do my ubuntu stuff that i cant else bacause of work
[01:22] <ogra> tahts sad....
[01:22] <fabbione> anyway
[01:22] <sivang> well, whoever uses a development branch should know what his doing.
[01:23] <fabbione> gotta do dishes and a bit of shopping
[01:23] <fabbione> bbl
[01:23] <sivang> fabbione: c'ya
[01:23] <ogra> ciao
[02:12] <fabbione> re
[02:14] <JD> sjoerd: I now have a working mounting usb storage device
[02:14] <Riddell> JD: use media:/ ioslave with hal backend
[02:14] <JD> one small issue is that I have a loopback device on it
[02:15] <JD> Riddell: pfft. not using KDE
[02:15] <sjoerd> JD: what kind of loopback device ?
[02:15] <JD> sjoerd: so I put a small script on the device to mount it
[02:16] <JD> sjoerd: just a ext2 filesystem "mount -oloop /media/usbkey/secrets.loop /media/usbkeys/secrets"
[02:17] <JD> sjoerd: gvm says "do you want to run .autorun" and I say yes
[02:17] <sivang> for writing complaints blogs like thius :   <revnumber>&userguide-rev;</revnumber>
[02:17] <sivang>                                           ^
[02:17] <sivang> /home/pooh/devel/docteam/faq/faq/trunk/usersguide.xml:20: parser error : Entity 'userguide-rev' not defined
[02:17] <sivang>                 <revnumber>&userguide-rev;</revnumber>
[02:17] <JD> only problem is that the device is mounted noexec :S
[02:18] <Treenaks> JD: why is that a problem?
[02:18] <JD> Treenaks: because gvm can't exec the autorun script it just asked me if I wanted to run
[02:18] <sjoerd> Treenaks: because he wants to run something on it and gvm can't execute it :)
[02:19] <sjoerd> JD: file a bug against gvm.. and we'll probably remove the autorun ability :)
[02:19] <fabbione> hey jbailey 
[02:20] <JD> sjoerd: hmmm having something in ~/.gvm would be better
[02:20] <jbailey> Heya fabbione!  Happy whatever-winter-holiday-you-happen-to-celebrate! =)
[02:20] <fabbione> ehheeh
[02:20] <sjoerd> JD: any reason why your using a loop device btw ?
[02:20] <fabbione> thanks! same there
[02:20] <JD> sjoerd: because windows likes to format non-fat devices?
[02:20] <JD> sjoerd: and at somepoint I might use an encrypted loopback
[02:21] <sjoerd> ah
[02:21] <sjoerd> we should start supporting encrypted filesystems on removable storage nicely rsn now
[02:22] <JD> sjoerd: so the device is fat, but it has a ext2 filesystem on it for my gpg keys and stuff
[02:22] <JD> sjoerd: that would be so lovely
[02:22] <sjoerd> so you'll get a better solution for that
[02:23] <JD> I want to plug my key in it get mounted and possibly for gnome-keyring to decrypt it for me
[02:23] <JD> all wthout me doing anything (except giving a passphrase)
[02:25] <Treenaks> JD: that'd be great :)
[02:26] <JD> sjoerd: it can still make sarge :P
[02:26] <Treenaks> Ubuntu SargE?
[02:26] <Treenaks> :P
[02:26] <sjoerd> JD: It is gonna depend on hal 0.6.x so probably not
[02:26] <JD> sjoerd: oh well
[02:26] <JD> how come?
[02:26] <sjoerd> JD: see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/EncryptedStorage
[02:26] <sjoerd> some notes about what we want to support
[02:27] <sjoerd> JD: and http://lists.freedesktop.org/pipermail/hal/2004-December/001423.html
[02:28] <Kamion> hmph, Mac Open Firmware has an interesting notion of "disassembly"
[02:28] <Kamion> h# ff852e77 dis
[02:28] <Kamion> ff852e77: 00967eff
[02:28] <Kamion> ff852e7b: fc7e6802
[02:29] <Kamion> THANKS, APPLE
[02:29] <Treenaks> Kamion: get the PowerPC manual to decode the opcodes 8)
[02:29] <fabbione> hey Kamion !
[02:30] <Kamion> Treenaks: that's the plan ...
[02:30] <sjoerd> fabbione: do you know if a ultra5 has temperature sensors ? (probably not, but you can never be too sure)
[02:30] <Kamion> unfortunately the manual I had is on the powerbook's disk, which is currently running OF :)
[02:30] <Treenaks> Kamion: 8)
[02:31] <fabbione> sjoerd: not that i know.. sorry
[02:31] <sjoerd> fabbione: k, thanks
[02:36] <fabbione> HMMMM
[02:39] <fabbione> huston this is apollo13
[02:39] <fabbione> we have a problem
[02:39] <fabbione> http://www.smcc.demon.nl/webcam/ <-
[02:39] <fabbione> Kamion: are you replacing mdz during these days?
[02:40] <Treenaks> fabbione: we're shipping another version of that driver already
[02:40] <fabbione> Treenaks: dude... they are the same
[02:40] <fabbione> i did the merfe
[02:40] <fabbione> merge
[02:40] <fabbione> the version we have, has been taken a few days before this mess
[02:40] <fabbione> and since upstream is dead
[02:40] <ogra> fabbione: thats more than 2 months old.... i thought there was a new maintainer
[02:40] <Treenaks> fabbione: http://www.saillard.org/linux/pwc/
[02:40] <fabbione> ogra: we have 10.0.6-unofficial...
[02:41] <fabbione> AHHH
[02:41] <fabbione> thanks guys
[02:41] <Treenaks> fabbione: no, the saillard version is the demon version + patches
[02:41] <fabbione> Treenaks: i think the url was wrong in the patch...
[02:41] <fabbione> now i reco the website
[02:47] <ogra> ufff.... mail sent....
[02:53] <Treenaks> ogra: the long one? about the brokenness of the Guide? :)
[02:53] <ogra> yep
[02:54] <fabbione> ogra: do you know anything about misdn?
[02:54] <ogra> was necessary... i and bob2 had soo much support the last days, caused by broken systems of ppl following the guide
[02:55] <ogra> fabbione: i'm just starting with it....important is that all the old isdn modules are blacklisted, they interfere
[02:55] <fabbione> hmm i only need to update the kernel module...
[02:55] <fabbione> i was trying to figure out how old is the one in our kernel and the one in their CVS repo
[02:56] <ogra> ah, ok.... i didnt look at it for some time....
[02:57] <fabbione> another one to update :-)
[02:57] <ogra> fabbione: mvo is currently in there....
[02:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: another nice set of drivers (not) is the quickcam set... it's 1 driver.. and 3 patched versions of the same driver with the same module name.. each of which works for a different set of cams
[02:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: and the main driver author is on crack
[02:59] <fabbione> aahah no no.. it's the same
[02:59] <fabbione> Treenaks: hold on... talking about pwc?
[02:59] <fabbione> i am way down a LOOOONG list of drivers to review...
[02:59] <Treenaks> fabbione: no, quickcam (logitech)
[02:59] <Treenaks> fabbione: not in ubuntu kernels yet
[03:00] <Treenaks> fabbione: and in the current state, it probably won't be for a loooong time
[03:00] <Treenaks> http://qce-ga.sourceforge.net/ and http://home.mag.cx/messenger/ etc.
[03:00] <fabbione> Treenaks: please don't give me drivers that requires a patching level of 20 deps.
[03:00] <Treenaks> fabbione: OK :)
[03:00] <ogra> heh
[03:01] <fabbione> like foo predeps on bar that predeps on baz but it has 3 f00 variant that are ....
[03:01] <fabbione> Treenaks: that will simply increase my insanity level
[03:01] <fabbione> and we do NOT want that.. do we?
[03:01] <Treenaks> fabbione: oh no, it's just 4 patches (1 for each type of cam).. but the problem they're mutually exclusive
[03:01] <Treenaks> fabbione: so I'll kick upstream into merging
[03:01] <fabbione> exactly..
[03:01] <fabbione> so it's no go
[03:01] <Treenaks> fabbione: .. for now 
[03:03] <Kamion> fabbione: mdz> not that I've been told; mdz's been sort of around ...
[03:05] <Kamion> cool. if you telnet to openfirmware and then do 'boot hd:9,\\yaboot' or whatever, you get the yaboot prompt over telnet
[03:05] <Treenaks> cool
[03:09] <fabbione> ah
[03:09] <fabbione> neat
[03:09] <Kamion> presumably this is how you actually debug yaboot
[03:16] <ogra> Kamion: is debootstrap error 132 == no target disk found ? 
[03:37] <fabbione> can anybody connect to http://prism54.org/firmware/ ?
[03:39] <jbailey> fabbione: It's not coming up, but I have one of those cards.
[03:39] <jbailey> fabbione: Want me to fire up the laptop and get you the firmware? =)
[03:39] <[Clint] > I have 1.0.4.3 handy
[03:39] <fabbione> jbailey: i need to see if there is a firmware update :-)
[03:39] <[Clint] > jbailey: plus it's illegal for you to give it to him
[03:40] <fabbione>  1.0.4.3
[03:40] <fabbione> that's what i have
[03:40] <jbailey> http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:9_Je_ADPHH4J:prism54.org/~mcgrof/firmware/+&hl=en
[03:40] <fabbione> is there anything newer than that?
[03:41] <fabbione> no
[03:41] <fabbione> so that's good.. less work for me :-)
[03:52] <Riddell> lamont: your upload of kdesdk does not seem to have been built
[03:56] <fabbione> Riddell: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdesdk/4:3.3.2-1ubuntu1/kdesdk_4:3.3.2-1ubuntu1_20041226-0237-i386-failed
[03:56] <fabbione> i think it's a plain typo
[03:57] <Riddell> fabbione: that's the old build which lamont fixed
[03:58] <fabbione> i doubt....
[03:58] <fabbione> there are no new versions at all
[03:58] <fabbione> hmm
[03:58] <fabbione> it has been accepted a ubuntu2
[03:58] <Riddell> he said he'd uploaded it
[03:58] <fabbione>    * Fix typo in Build-Depends.
[03:58] <fabbione> yeah
[03:59] <fabbione> probably he forgot to kick it back...
[03:59] <Riddell> what does that mean?
[04:01] <fabbione> Riddell: he needs to tell the systems to build the package
[04:01] <fabbione> (in few very simple words)
[04:02] <Riddell> doesn't they do that automatically when a package is uploaded?
[04:05] <fabbione> in some cases no
[04:05] <fabbione> and this is one of them
[04:06] <lamont> fabbione: it should have... checking
[04:07] <lamont> sigh.
[04:07] <lamont> for a in ia64 i386 powerpc amd64; do wanna-build -b$a/build-db -dhoary --pretend-avail automake1._1;done
[04:07] <lamont> all better
[04:08] <lamont> fabbione: 260 Installed, 205 Needs-Build
[04:08] <lamont> hppa, partial debian mirror locally, so lots of d-w's
[04:09] <lamont> once it gets done with sweep one, then I'll add the stage1 archive in and see what happens from there.
[04:10] <fabbione> lamont: hey...
[04:10] <lamont> Riddell: because it was dep-wait 'automake1.', and that package hasn't arrived in the archive (duh), it won't auto-try a new kdesdk upload.  sorry about that.
[04:10] <lamont> and fixed.
[04:10] <lamont> fabbione: yo
[04:10] <fabbione> lamont: when can i get an hppa chroot?
[04:10] <fabbione> it doesn't need to be hoary
[04:10] <fabbione> debian is fine
[04:10] <fabbione> i only need our kernel-wedge
[04:10] <Riddell> lamont: fair enough
[04:10] <lamont> fabbione: let me get the cyclades set up first, eh?
[04:10] <fabbione> lamont: sure
[04:11] <fabbione> since i am going to release 2.6.10 tomorrow.. i could start giving it a spin on hppa
[04:11] <amu> lamont: hold on, the md5 didnt matched, with ubuntu2, i builded ubuntu1 on another maschine
[04:11] <lamont> amu: ??
[04:11] <amu> kdeskd
[04:12] <lamont> md5sum matched at upload for kdesdk ubuntu2
[04:12] <lamont> I just unblocked the buildd's
[04:13] <amu> i got a rejected mail from katie 
[04:14] <amu> dpkg-source -x failed for kdesdk_3.3.2-1ubuntu2.dsc ( return code 6400 ) 
[04:15] <lamont> grumble
[04:16] <lamont> amu: it's building on all of them....
[04:16] <lamont> did you upload a -1ubuntu2?
[04:16] <amu> lamont: thx
[04:16] <amu> lamont: yep
[04:17] <lamont> that would explain it... my -1ubuntu2 was in the archive, so your's bounced.
[04:17] <lamont> delta was to build-dep automake1.9, instead of automake1., per Riddell 
[04:18] <lamont> but wanna-build still had the automake1. dep-wait, and needed a boot to the head.
[04:18] <lamont> er, needed to be awoken.
[04:18] <amu> lamont: yep, saw it in the buildlogs, Riddell told me this also ... so i uploaded 1ubuntu2 :) 
[04:18] <lamont> heh
[04:19] <lamont> anyway, off for another fun day of vacationing.
[04:19] <amu> .. have fun 
[04:22] <tklauser> Hi
[04:29] <Kamion> ogra: 132 is signal 4, whatever that is on your system ('kill -l')
[04:31] <ogra> Kamion: already done, was a prob in -users with virtual pc
[04:31] <Kamion> so, it *has* to be on an Apple_Boot* or Apple_HFS* partition
[04:31] <Kamion> ogra: ok
[04:31] <fabbione> GROAR
[04:32] <[Clint] > I hope you're going after dbs too.
[04:32] <fabbione> ehehe
[04:33] <Kamion> *snork* *quote*
[04:34] <Kamion> Riddell: must have been introduced by accident by the uploader
[04:38] <fabbione> Kamion: you also copied the typo ;)
[04:38] <fabbione> CAST -> CASTS :P
[04:43] <Kamion> I figured that was just Itaglish
[04:44] <Kamion> feel free to fix :)
[04:47] <fabbione> ehehe
[04:48] <Kamion> woohoo, working powerpc USB boot. we'll have that in Ubuntu by hoary release
[04:49] <Kamion> it'd be nice to get ofpath to recognise USB sticks, but that may be harder
[04:54] <JD> Kamion: does OF deal with usb serial devices?
[04:55] <Kamion> you mean like a USB serial console?
[04:58] <JD> yeah
[04:58] <Kamion> you could almost certainly write a driver for it, but I suspect it isn't there by default
[05:23] <JD> ;2
[05:23] <JD> argh
[07:18] <Treenaks> ogra: do you have some weird email<->brain interface?
[07:18] <ogra> hehe, why ?
[07:18] <Treenaks> ogra: you reply do -user mail before the original mail reaches my inbox :)
[07:19] <Treenaks> give us a chance! :)
[07:19] <ogra> just a fast server *g* (still a woody box)
[07:19] <Treenaks> I'm on a sarge box which takes ages to deliver mail (spamcheck, viruscheck, [you-name-it] -checl)
[07:19] <ogra> ok, i try to hold it back some mins in the future :)
[07:20] <ogra> the trick is to run all checks at the client side :)
[07:21] <Treenaks> ogra: ah! :P
[07:21] <Treenaks> but my server is my client ;
[07:21] <Treenaks> :)
[07:21] <ogra> heh
[08:00] <mjg59> Hrm. There's a couple of chunks in the latest acpi patch that we probably want in 2.6.10
[08:06] <Treenaks> also, inotify seems to be absent in 2.6.10-vanilla
[08:10] <sivang> I already said that over the rosetta channel, and as it seems important I would ask here again -
[08:11] <sivang> Maybe it's worth while to announce a message to hold uploading of stuff into rosetta by translator until the official braches are merged in?
[08:11] <sivang> I have already some peopel over my country team that want to start trasnlating, some of them I think even attempted uploading some templates..
[08:12] <sivang> this could result in the random arbitrary translations floating problem..
[08:13] <Treenaks> sivang: uh.. most stuff in Rosetta has been RE-translated into Dutch because the Rosetta people didn't upload the already-translated .po's
[08:14] <sivang> Treenaks: this will happen also for hebrew I think, I don't know how long I can stop people from uploading :) although I asked really nicely.
[08:33] <Keybuk> mjg59: oh?
[08:36] <mjg59> Keybuk: Nothing likely to help you, I'm afraid
[08:36] <Keybuk> aww
[08:36] <mjg59> Tell tbm to get his docking station fixed and I'll see what I can do
[08:39] <Keybuk> is the parallel port you need, right?
[09:07] <mjg59> Yeah
[09:08] <sivang> mjg59: the acpi-support pkg in hoary is outdated in a way? suspend to ram seem to not work on the inspiron 8200..
[09:12] <mjg59> sivang: In what way?
[09:14] <sivang> mjg59: well, the fans keep on going, network is up, disk access continues..
[09:17] <mjg59> How are you trying to suspend it?
[09:21] <mjg59> sivang: Try running /etc/acpi/sleep.sh and then send me the dmesg
[09:23] <HcE> hmm
[09:23] <HcE> should I have a daemon to be able to go to sleep with acpi?
[09:24] <HcE> sleepd or something?
[09:26] <sivang> mjg59: will do :)
[09:36] <sivang> mjg59: I don't even have this script..
[10:15] <mako> smurfix: hey
[10:15] <mako> smurfix: you around? i want to know what the ideal email address for country team stuff should be? 
[10:28] <smurfix> mako: around
[10:29] <smurfix> mako: country-team@canonical?
[10:29] <mako> smurfix: that would be ideal :)
[10:30] <mako> smurfix: i just mentioned the email yu'd be using to email me about this so far in the CC summaries
[10:30] <mako> that i just sent to news
[10:30] <mako> -news even
[10:30] <mako> smurfix: we can look into getting a role account set up but that will (cleary) have to wait for elmo to return
[10:33] <smurfix> mako: Otherwise, to get me personally, using smurf@debian would make sense.
[10:35] <mako> i think using @debian addresses for ubuntu thing may be not that great an idea
[10:35] <smurfix> mako: Hmmm
[10:36] <smurfix> mako: OK, then hire me and give me a @canonical address.    1/2 :-)
[10:36] <ogra> hey, me too !!
[10:36] <smurfix> mako: The one you used is the next best choice though, so OK.
[10:36] <mako> there are people in debian who are a little annoyed at unbuntu/canonical.. we don't need to invite "You are abusing debian resources" on top of everything :)
[10:36] <ogra> *g*
[10:37] <smurfix> mako: true ...
[10:37] <mako> smurfix: i looked and saw what you emailed me about country teams from most recently
[10:37] <mako> my lbdb picks up emails from you at like 10 different addresses :)
[10:38] <smurfix> mako: Ten's a lot. Probably includes all the @noris.* addresses I still carry around in my gpg keyring.
[10:40] <calc> heh
[10:40] <calc> give away @canonical so people can use them for their debian packages ;)
[10:40] <calc> appear to slowly take over debian, muhaha ;)
[10:40] <kylem> slowly?
[10:41] <mako> calc: people will see it whether we "appear" to be doing it or not :)
[10:41] <calc> heh
[10:41] <kylem> anybody who pays attention already knows who works for canonical.
[10:42] <Keybuk> everyone thinks we're taking over debian *anyway*
[10:43] <smurfix> Keybuk: ... for some more-or-less fuzzy meaning of "we" and "take over", that's actually true ...
[10:43] <ogra> heh
[10:43] <sid77> hi
[10:43] <calc> there's nothing to take over, everyone has already converted to using ubuntu ;)
[10:44] <ogra> not the mpis ppl though
[10:44] <ogra> mips
[10:44] <ogra> or sparc
[10:44] <ogra> etc
[10:44] <smurfix> not to forget http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?LetUbuntuReleaseForUs
[10:45] <kylem> i actually don't mind that plan, but my favorite con is "What about the rest of the toys in Toy Story? They want to be released as well!" :)
[10:45] <ogra> woo, the cons list is a lot longer
[10:45] <smurfix> ogra: doesn't mean it carries more weight though
[10:46] <ogra> i know , quality matters, not quantitiy
[10:46] <calc> "What about the rest of the toys in Toy Story? They want to be released as well!" best argument to keep releasing ;)
[10:46] <calc> kylem: ah didn't see your comment :P
[10:46] <kylem> :P
[10:47] <smurfix> One might argue that LetUbuntuReleaseForUs already *is* the current release strategy, as opposed to ReleaseWhenReady :-/
[10:47] <mdz> fabbione: I'm going to be around most of the time
[10:48] <Keybuk> trying to get Debian Developers to release sarge is like trying to get them all to go to dinner
[10:48] <seb128> mdz: when a guy ask if -devel is the right place to mail when a package does build, include something saying that's not when you reply :p
[10:48] <seb128> s/does/doesn't/
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: yes, absolutely we should put ubuntu-keyring in main
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: in fact it probably ought to go in base
[10:49] <mdz> seb128: but it is, until (and unless) we have a separate mailing list for MOTU
[10:49] <seb128> grumpf
[10:50] <mdz> it's certainly better than filing bugs
[10:50] <seb128> the list is about the development, isn't it ?
[10:50] <seb128> bugzilla is the right place
[11:05] <mdz> seb128: these are universe packages
[11:05] <mdz> if they're filed in bugzilla, they are ignored
[11:05] <mxpxpod> fabbione: ping
[11:06] <mdz> on -devel, there is the hope that someone will see it and care to fix it
[11:06] <mdz> the reason I didn't say anything on the matter is that I don't have a good answer yet as to the correct place to send those reports
[11:07] <mdz> the MOTU stuff needs some organization
[11:08] <sivang> mdz: if ubuntu universe comes from sid, maybe just use this as a call to give even more support to sid's pkgs through ubuntu?
[11:08] <mdz> sivang: what do you mean?
[11:09] <sivang> mdz: thuse utilizing sid's already existant infrastructre
[11:09] <sivang> mdz: that it, debian BTS etc..
[11:09] <mdz> that would require that people wanting to do maintenance in universe become Debian developers, and we absolutely will not do that
[11:10] <mdz> we will empower users to do work in universe directly through Ubuntu
[11:10] <sivang> mdz: but if you let people upload and contrib, and ubuntu staffer sync it to sid, then they don't need to become dds
[11:10] <sivang> mdz: they will be like "sponsered" from debian's point of view.
[11:10] <mdz> I guess I don't understand what you're proposing, then
[11:11] <sivang> mdz: probably :) I will try to rephrase and say again...
[11:11] <mdz> the problem is that Ubuntu users don't have a clear place to go for problems in universe
[11:11] <mdz> the solution proposed by the community council is the formation of an Ubuntu team to do that maintenance
[11:12] <mdz> Debian cannot be a solution to this problem, because it has its own social and organizational requirements which are separate from Ubuntu's
[11:12] <mdz> that team will, of course, be encouraged to feed their changes upstream to Debian in the usual ways
[11:13] <mdz> but they will not upload packages to Debian, unless they happen to be Debian developers and can do so according to Debian's methodology
[11:13] <mdz> they will upload to Ubuntu
[11:14] <sivang> yes, and DD which are also ubuntu maintainers could "sponser" this uploads back to debian ? or is this colliding with debian strucutre again?
[11:14] <sivang> *DDS
[11:15] <mdz> in Debian, it is only acceptable to upload packages that are maintained by someone else, under specific circumstances
[11:15] <sivang> I see.
[11:15] <mdz> so it would be in extremely bad taste to push those packages to Debian as a matter of course
[11:15] <sivang> then an infrastructre must be set up...
[11:15] <sivang> for the MOTU people.
[11:17] <seb128> mdz: if people start using -devel as a bug tracker for universe the list will be flooded with that and most of the devels will not keep reading it because of the bad SNR
[11:17] <mdz> sivang: yes, that is the plan
[11:17] <sivang> this could maybe take the from of debian forge....then ubuntu would build those pacakges, and a proper note would be made to tell peopel who enaable universe that their system may break...but a bug system must be set up.
[11:17] <mdz> seb128: if that happens, we will absolutely create a new list
[11:17] <sivang> (by saying debian forge I meant alioth)
[11:18] <seb128> mdz: ok ...
[11:18] <mdz> I am concerned about prematurely splitting lists; it divides the community's attention
[11:18] <lamont> creating new lists should only be done to address traffic overload, not because of perceived possible traffic issues.
[11:18] <seb128> I already find we have too many bug with user questions or bug reports on -devel
[11:18] <seb128> s/bug/mail/
[11:19] <seb128> but perhaps that's only me ...
[11:19] <mako> wow.. #ubuntu-devel lives!
[11:19] <lamont> mako: yeah, but we're all on vacation, I think.
[11:19] <sivang> maybe a seperate bug reporting system should be set up for universe...
[11:20] <mako> lamont: i'm not :)
[11:20] <lamont> mako: ah, ok.  I am.
[11:20] <ogra> sivang: launchpad 
[11:20] <mako> lamont: i'm FREEZING in an nyc apartment with broken heat wish i was back in spain
[11:20] <sivang> ogra: yes :)
[11:20] <mako> :)
[11:20] <sivang> mako: me too :)
[11:20] <mdz> seb128: there are some, but compared to, say, debian-devel the SNR is great
[11:21] <seb128> mdz: that's a start. If we don't stop it now .... 
[11:21] <mdz> seb128: ideally, we will eventually have a proper support tracker and bug tracker for everything, and that should help a lot
[11:21] <seb128> people will start thinking that's the right list for this sort of stuff and then we are stucked
[11:21] <mako> ogra: dude, i'm been learning to type from under a down blanket  all day :)
[11:21] <mdz> until that time, it doesn't seem right to tell people to just go away
[11:21] <mdz> they need someplace to go
[11:21] <lamont> mako: hit -6F last week here.
[11:21] <seb128> bugzilla for bugs, -user for user questions
[11:22] <sivang> mdz: a temporary list until malone is up and running FOSS wide?
[11:22] <mdz> support stuff should definitely go to -user
[11:22] <mako> or any of the support channels
[11:22] <ogra> mako: i know how that feels lived 2 years in an old factory without heating ;)
[11:22] <smurfix> lamont: ***brrr***
[11:22] <mdz> but we cannot have every bug report about a universe package go into bugzilla; it is already very difficult to work with
[11:22] <mako> paid support, etc
[11:22] <mdz> they need to be separate
[11:22] <seb128> mdz: and we can get every bug report about universe on -devel so ?
[11:23] <mdz> seb128: they require much less resources to process on -devel than in bugzilla
[11:23] <seb128> because few people use it atm
[11:23] <mdz> and more people see them, so they are more likely to get fixed
[11:24] <seb128> I would rather use -users
[11:24] <mako> seb128: only a few developers read -users
[11:24] <mdz> I'm happy to leave this up to whoever drives the MOTU
[11:24] <mdz> I think it will probably become a separate list
[11:24] <seb128> mako: I now, but if we keep it in this way, only a few developers will read -devel
[11:25] <seb128> s/now/know 
[11:25] <sivang> mdz: probably, it's not exactly suited for -users, and -devel we want to keep as low in traffic as possible.
[11:25] <mako> why not a seperate bugzilla?
[11:25] <seb128> you guys don't read the gnome list ? 
[11:26] <mako> seb128: i don't
[11:26] <sivang> seb128: I read gnome-love...
[11:26] <seb128> desktop-devel is a good example of list with very few RSN
[11:26] <mdz> mako: malone
[11:26] <mako> mdz: well, if we had malone doing what we wanted this wouldn't be an issue at all, right?
[11:26] <seb128> I mean, they do this because devels are busy and tend to unsubscribe really quickly when a list start to deal with user threads and bug reports
[11:26] <mdz> mako: well, there is more to universe than bug reports
[11:26] <sivang> IIRC, malone is supposed to be the FOSS Universal bug tracker right?
[11:27] <mako> mdz: heh, clearly :)
[11:27] <mdz> personally I think that bugzilla is not very workable for this
[11:27] <mdz> whether a separate instance, a separate product, whatever
[11:27] <lamont> hrm.. mysql-dfsg unhappy x4
[11:27] <mdz> it would be confusing
[11:27] <mdz> users would need to know ahead of time where to go
[11:28] <mako> i guess a seperate mailing list is the sanest course when things out of hand
[11:28] <seb128> just add a list universe so ...
[11:28] <sivang> mailing list for the meanwhile, malone in the future.
[11:28] <mdz> I don't want to create a mailing list when there is no one to subscribe to it
[11:28] <lamont> my bad
[11:29] <mdz> I think this will all become a non-issue when MOTU happens, which should be RSN
[11:29] <sivang> RSN, is this something I missed from the last CC meeting? :)
[11:29] <mdz> I think getting that set up is community council territory
[11:33] <mako> if somebody has an idea of what it should look like, we can get a proposal and we can push it forward
[11:34] <mako> i am currently writing up to *other* proposals for the next CC meeting so i would be thrilled if it could be someoen else :)
[11:34] <mako> two other proposals :)
[11:34] <mako> mdz: is there someone that wanted to drive it?
[11:34] <mako> i'm happy to work with them toward a proposal
[11:34] <mdz> mako: not sure; I missed the last meeting due to being deathly ill
[11:35] <mdz> I think the only must-have is someone to take point
[11:35] <mdz> MOTMOTU so to speak
[11:35] <mdz> someone to coordinate and drive the thing
[11:36] <sivang> yet another mako task? :)
[11:36] <mako> sivang: i can't do it
[11:36] <mako> doing mako+lu's job is *killing me*
[11:36] <mako> :)
[11:36] <sivang> mako: notice the smile sign...:)
[11:36] <mako> well, i'm not doing lu's job nearly as well as she was i'm sure :)
[11:37] <ogra> oh, so my wiki bugs go to mako :)
[11:37] <mako> ogra: absoultely not
[11:37] <mako> ogra:  :)
[11:37] <ogra> *g*
[11:37] <mako> ogra: enrico is helping out with the wiki stuff.. 
[11:37] <ogra> ah, ok
[11:37] <sivang> ogra: enrico has done a great deal of wiki fix works..report it to him
[11:38] <ogra> i already have...
[11:38] <ogra> yesterday
[11:38] <ogra> was just wondering, because bugzilla reports it to lu i seems
[11:38] <ogra> it
[11:39] <sivang> ogra: you can file a bugzilla report on the documentation component, this is assined to enrico
[11:40] <ogra> ok, next time i do ....
[11:40] <mdz> sivang: the person leading the MOTU stuff should not be an existing Ubuntu developer, but someone from the community with the skills and interest to do it
[11:41] <jdub> pants off
[11:41] <jdub> 33.6k mdem connection, 100 of 2775 emails downloaded ;)
[11:41] <ogra> lol
[11:41] <ogra> compress....harder
[11:42] <mako> jdub: *AWESOME*
[11:42] <sivang> mdz: true, so he'll have all the time for that. he should be probably also a very skilled in the way of packaging..
[11:42] <mako> if we talk a lot on IRC, we could have a noticeable slowdown affect on jdub's mail download
[11:42] <jdub> also, i have ubuntu disease
[11:42] <sivang> mako: hehehehe
[11:42] <jdub> thanks to marianne and mdz
[11:42] <jdub> gar! :)
[11:42] <sivang> jdub: what are the symptoms? 
[11:43] <mdz> jdub: if you're only sick now, you didn't get it from me :-P
[11:43] <mako> jdub: i thought you said marijuana and mdz at first
[11:43] <ogra> dripping nose ?
[11:43] <ogra> hehe
[11:43] <mdz> mako: a formidable combination
[11:43] <jdub> nose, throat, walking dead, etc.
[11:43] <mako> if i had a nickle for ever time i've heard that one
[11:43] <mdz> SteveA was carrying the torch last
[11:43] <jdub> mdz: i'd like to shift UVF back to jan 5th
[11:43] <mako> mdz: i think jordi had it
[11:44] <mdz> jdub: rather than doing it in the middle of everyone's vacation?  I agree
[11:44] <jdub> mdz: but am in mail hell atm, so haven't been able to send, etc.
[11:44] <sivang> jdub: what is the UVF?
[11:44] <mako> sivang: upstream version freeze
[11:44] <jdub> upstream version vfreeze
[11:44] <jdub> mdz: particularly elmo's ;)
[11:45] <mako> or "unprecented viral fuckage" in jdub's case at the moment
[11:45] <mako> seriously, i think the cold in this apartment might KILL ME
[11:46] <mako> i'm going to make a pilgramage to the WARM CLOTHES STORE
[11:46] <sivang> mako: isn't there a place more hot that you can escape to? what about your neighbors? :)
[11:46] <jdub> mdz: could you mail on my behalf?
[11:47] <sivang> jdub: so the 5th it is?
[11:47] <ogra> mako: a hairdryer under the blanket is great  .....
[11:52] <mako> ogra: no hair dryer :(
[11:52] <ogra> ah...doomed
[11:52] <ogra> 500 candles ?
[11:52] <mako> ogra: i have a lot of candles.. and an oven
[11:53] <sivang> mako: fire the oven up and close all the windows :)
[11:53] <ogra> ah, so make a fire then....
[11:53] <mako> dude, i would *insane* if i had any windows open
[11:53] <sivang> mako: but be aware, it may consume all the oxygen inside.
[11:53] <Mithrandir> mako: take a few bottles, fill them up with hot (or boiling) water, put bottles in bed.  If you go to bed at the same time, put socks around them to avoid burning yourself.
[11:53] <mdz> jdub: ok
[11:54] <sivang> mako: I Know, GWeather applet says  -4C in central park
[11:54] <mako> 10 points for a good idea on staying warm from the norweigan!
[11:54] <sivang> mako: I'll send you some fluffy furry warm bottles from here :)
[11:54] <sivang> mako: they have shapes like bears, bunnies etc..
[11:57] <daniels_> (and in the place where it's actually summer, it's 18degC, and bucketing down hail.  whoo hoo.)
[11:59] <jdub> new vim packages... "Most important change is the usage of alternatives instead of diversions."
[11:59] <sivang> jdub: isn't GNOME 2.10 to be released on the 9th? and it is a hoary goal..
[12:00] <sivang> jdub: march , that is.