[06:25] <hornbeck> froud: you around?
[06:29] <enrico> hello hornbeck!
[06:30] <froud> good morn
[06:30] <froud> african grettings
[06:31] <hornbeck> I am only here a sec
[06:34] <hornbeck> froud now has access
[06:34] <hornbeck> I am going to leave now :-)
[06:35] <froud> hornbeck, thanks
[06:35] <hornbeck> email me if anything goes wrong, I made a backup right before giving access to him :-)
[06:35] <froud> he he :-)
[06:35] <froud> you can use hot-backup.py
[06:36] <hornbeck> yeah, I know
[06:36] <froud> Thanks for all your help
[06:36] <froud> I just woke yp 
[06:36] <froud> up
[06:36] <froud> 07:30 here in Johannesbrg
[06:59] <froud> hornbeck, you still alive :-)
[06:59] <froud> do you have a https interface for commit access
[07:05] <froud> I am getting an authentication error while trying to setup for svn
[07:05] <froud> svn: Commit failed (details follow):
 svn: MKACTIVITY of /faq/!svn/act/1b5d1b7c-46ec-0310-9a18-d0e28e8fc7c3: authorization failed (http://69.155.172.150)
[07:06] <froud> can anyone help here
[07:18] <froud> enrico
[07:19] <froud> but Im not ther eyet
[07:19] <enrico> uhm... authentication error...
[07:19] <froud> Hmmm
[07:19] <enrico> tried checking out http://yourusername@69.155.172.150 ?
[07:19] <enrico> ehm,  http://yourusername@69.155.172.150/faq ?
[07:20] <froud> no i did svn co http:..... --username ... --password ...
[07:20] <enrico> then, when you do commit, you should be prompted for your password once and that's it
[07:20] <enrico> Ah, allright.  That should be it, then
[07:20] <froud> Ok will fgive it a try
[07:22] <froud> It did not prompt me just did co
[07:22] <enrico> It doesn't prompt at the checkout
[07:22] <enrico> only at commit
[07:22] <froud> so each time I do commit I need to pass the password ?
[07:23] <hornbeck> no the password will keep after your first commit
[07:23] <hornbeck> or it shouldl
[07:23] <hornbeck> should
[07:23] <froud> ok so same as stcin stdout sv://
[07:23] <froud> stdin
[07:23] <froud> svn://
[07:23] <hornbeck> there is no svn://
[07:23] <hornbeck> http://
[07:24] <hornbeck> just http://
[07:24] <froud> yes what I mean is it is the same as when using stdin/stdout on a svn:// protocol
[07:24] <hornbeck> the only difference now is you can svn commit <file>
[07:24] <hornbeck> yes
[07:24] <froud> Should we not use https://
[07:24] <hornbeck> this is temporary right now
[07:24] <froud> OK
[07:25] <hornbeck> never meant to be a long term thing
[07:25] <hornbeck> I made it so we would have something
[07:25] <hornbeck> I am off to bed
[07:25] <hornbeck> email problems to me, I will be back in about 6.5 hours
[07:25] <froud> He he no I have stuff to do
[07:26] <enrico> enrico is wide awake (14:27 here :)
[07:27] <enrico> However, I'm about to go out (they're waiting for me downstairs)
[07:27] <froud> ok chow
[07:28] <enrico> see you all later!
[07:29] <froud> problem solved
[11:26] <abelli> enrico..
[11:26] <abelli> ciao
[11:28] <enrico> Ciao!
[12:00] <ChrisH> froud: Could you perhaps edit the wiki/DocBook page I started and give some more guidelines on how we will work? Like entities, xmllint, suggested editor applications etc? Would help.
[12:18] <froud> ChrisH, where exactly in wikipedia is this page? URL
[12:19] <abelli> sivang: ping
[12:21] <ChrisH> froud: http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocBook and http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocBookReference
[12:22] <ChrisH> froud: That is as much as I know about DocBook <excuse>which was enough to get started</excuse> :)
[12:28] <froud> OK thanks I will take a look and make changes
[12:44] <sivang> abelli: pong
[12:48] <froud> ChrisH, see this article http://www.sastc.org.za/articles/xml-solv-prop.html
[12:49] <sivang> ChrisH: heheheh
[12:49] <sivang> :)
[12:49] <froud> I have published it under creative commons
[12:49] <sivang> froud: Shalom Yedidi!
[12:49] <froud> sivang, shalom
[12:49] <sivang> ehhh, creative commons, what a wonderful license..
[12:49] <froud> sivang, you need to do svn up
[12:50] <froud> actually everyone using svn needs to do svn up, except ChrisH 
[12:50] <sivang> froud: any new stuff for me there?
[12:50] <sivang> :)
[12:50] <froud> The makefile is not ready, I am busy with it
[12:50] <froud> when last did you do svn up ?
[12:51] <sivang> anybody seen enrico?
[12:51] <ChrisH> froud: very general... but nice for starters
[12:51] <froud> sivang, just do it
[12:51] <sivang> Nike (tm) ?
[12:51] <sivang> :)
[12:51] <froud> ChrisH, yes, but gets th epoint of  why use xml
[12:51] <ChrisH> froud: Right...
[12:51] <ChrisH> froud: How the heck do you have five penguins in ZA? :)
[12:52] <froud> Five linux boxes :-)
[12:52] <ChrisH> Oh... okay.
[12:52] <ChrisH> Pengiuns would have been funkier though.
[12:52] <sivang> froud: done, now what?
[12:52] <froud> each a different breed of penguin
[12:53] <froud> yelp userguide.xml
[12:53] <froud> and the others to see they work
[12:53] <froud> for you
[12:54] <froud> sivang, userguide is now at docbook 4.3 as a test
[12:54] <sivang> 4.3, meaning new standards new featrues?
[12:55] <froud> sivang, only problem is with the 4.3 task element, we dont use it yet, but I intend to so Shaun (GNOME) will add this to Yelp
[12:55] <froud> The other docs are using docbook 4.1.2
[12:55] <froud> still
[12:56] <sivang> froud: ok, you have to do some explenation for the technically challanged amongs us..:)
[12:56] <froud> Notice how the ubuntu icon is now displayed
[12:56] <froud> sivang, look at the srcs see how it works
[12:56] <sivang> froud: what is task element?
[12:57] <froud> you will notice stuff like &publisher;
[12:57] <froud> task element is a new element that was introduced in docbook 4.3
[12:57] <froud> question time
[12:58] <sivang> btw, the logo doesn't display at all over my setup.
[12:58] <froud> On the contents page ?
[12:58] <sivang> yes
[12:58] <froud> Hmm hangon
[12:59] <sivang> ChrisH: torf is down or something?
[01:00] <ChrisH> sivang: should not be... what are you missing?
[01:02] <froud> sivang, svn up
[01:02] <froud> in root of trunk
[01:02] <sivang> lemme try again
[01:05] <froud> he is right
[01:05] <froud> sivang, cd quickguide
[01:05] <froud> yelp quickguide.xml
[01:05] <sivang> eh, I did it for the userguide, you should love it also a bit :)
[01:06] <sivang> the logo display there is b0rked.
[01:06] <froud> yes something I need to find out why
[01:06] <froud> But I will be moving userguide.xml to parts
[01:06] <froud> then rename parts to userguide
[01:07] <froud> do you see it in the quick guide
[01:07] <sivang> I don't get it, are you merging the usersguide with the quickguide?
[01:07] <sivang> didn't we agree that this is not what was decided?>
[01:07] <froud> no
[01:08] <froud> not allowed to remember
[01:08] <sivang> :)
[01:08] <froud> I said I will mv userguide.xml to parts
[01:08] <ChrisH> sivang: Every project (users guide, quick guide, whatever else) is getting an own directory. Nothing less.
[01:08] <froud> then mv parts to usersguide
[01:08] <ChrisH> sivang: So although the repository is still called "faq" it contains all the projects.
[01:09] <froud> Yes, this is a small things
[01:09] <sivang> ChrisH: ah ok :) so we get more oder
[01:09] <ChrisH> It will still be a week until no one else but froud understands the structure. ;)
[01:09] <froud> I want to rename fq2 to faq
[01:09] <sivang> not odor :) order..
[01:09] <froud> yes
[01:10] <froud> Does the quickguide load the image for your?
[01:10] <sivang> well, froud should write up a guide for the new doc proj structure.
[01:10] <sivang> froud: yes
[01:10] <froud> OK my mistake
[01:10] <ChrisH> sivang: Yes, asked him already to polish my DocBook[Reference]  Wiki pages.
[01:10] <froud> quickguide is using docbook 4.3
[01:10] <ChrisH> sivang: He makes me look stupid. :)
[01:10] <sivang> froud: toss in a "new documentation structure guide" for free ? 
[01:11] <sivang> ChrisH: what do you think this makes me look like? more stupid then you...
[01:11] <froud> sivang, not many changes from the usual
[01:11] <froud> we just have a greater degree of indirection
[01:11] <ChrisH> sivang: Then you are extra stupid.
[01:11] <froud> sivang, cd to trunk/
[01:12] <ChrisH> sivang: We will meet at the next SUDWC...
[01:12] <froud> less global.ent
[01:12] <ChrisH> sivang: (Stupid Ubuntu Doc Writers Conference)
[01:12] <sivang> ChrisH: I find it growing as the days go by, X,XX,XXX,XXXX,XXXX,..... :)
[01:12] <sivang> froud: THERE
[01:12] <sivang> sorry for the caps
[01:12] <froud> ok you see entities
[01:12] <froud> a few of them
[01:13] <froud> yep?
[01:13] <sivang> froud: what do you define as entities?
[01:13] <froud> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
[01:13] <froud> <!-- VERSION FILES -->
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY userguide-rev SYSTEM 'VERSION'>
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY quickguide-rev SYSTEM 'quickguide/VERSION'>
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY faqguide-rev SYSTEM 'fq2/VERSION'>
[01:13] <froud> <!-- COMMON DOC OBJECTS -->
[01:13] <sivang> ChrisH: very ery stupid ubuntu doc project starter..
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY publisher SYSTEM 'common/publisher.xml'>
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY legalnotice-feedback SYSTEM 'common/legalnotice-feedback.xml'>
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY inline-ubuntu-icon SYSTEM 'common/inlinemediaobject-ubuntu-icon.xml'>
[01:13] <froud> <!ENTITY ubuntu-icon SYSTEM 'common/mediaobject-ubuntu-icon.xml'>
[01:13] <froud> right
[01:13] <sivang> froud: but this is a _directory_ , what you pasted are contents from files...
[01:14] <froud> yes are you in trunk/
[01:14] <sivang> froud: yes I am.
[01:14] <froud> ok do       less global.ent
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 pooh pooh  142 2004-12-28 13:51 common
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 pooh pooh  140 2004-12-28 14:01 debian
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   4 pooh pooh   57 2004-12-28 13:51 fq2
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh 1298 2004-12-28 13:51 global.ent
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 pooh pooh   38 2004-12-28 13:51 images
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 pooh pooh   17 2004-12-28 13:51 libs
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh  564 2004-12-27 13:31 Makefile
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  11 pooh pooh  141 2004-12-27 13:31 parts
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   4 pooh pooh   64 2004-12-28 13:51 quickguide
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh 2258 2004-12-27 13:31 README
[01:14] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   7 pooh pooh  153 2004-12-28 14:05 .svn
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh  779 2004-12-27 13:31 ubuntu.xsl
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh 4543 2004-12-28 13:51 usersguide.xml
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh   10 2004-12-28 13:51 VERSION
[01:14] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 pooh pooh  998 2004-12-27 13:31 xinclude.mod
[01:15] <sivang> I do recognize on ething, my "debian" folder :)
[01:15] <froud> yo dude what ar eyou doing
[01:15] <froud> in bash do less global.ent
[01:15] <sivang> ok, sec.
[01:15] <sivang> ok, I have the file infront of me.
[01:16] <froud> OK those or entities
[01:16] <froud> take the first one
[01:16] <froud> <!ENTITY userguide-rev SYSTEM 'VERSION'>
[01:16] <sivang> Ok, I know this, I know XML :) just didn't understadn what you defined as entities at first place,
[01:16] <froud> if you insert &userguide-rev; in your doc it will be included
[01:16] <sivang> because one might have different definitions to it.
[01:16] <sivang> yes I know.
[01:17] <sivang> ok, so that simplifies and stream lines alot. good
[01:17] <froud> OK see the new doctype decl
[01:17] <sivang> btw, why do you need a shoutcast entiy?
[01:17] <froud> it was use din the docs
[01:17] <sivang> eh ok..
[01:17] <froud> see the DocType Decl in userguide.xml
[01:17] <froud> <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN" 
[01:17] <froud> 	"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [
[01:17] <froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "xinclude.mod">
[01:17] <froud> %xinclude;
[01:17] <froud> <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "global.ent">
[01:17] <sivang> doctype decl is in the global ?
[01:17] <froud> %globalent;
[01:17] <froud> ] >
[01:17] <froud> see above
[01:18] <sivang> ok, some of this I recognize,
[01:18] <froud> global.ent is defined in all files in this manner withinn the internal subset
[01:18] <froud> now you see xinclude.mod
[01:18] <froud> this is also defined in all files
[01:18] <sivang> yes, that what I dind't understand
[01:18] <sivang> you mean, included in all files.
[01:18] <sivang> ?
[01:19] <froud> OK xinlcude.mod adds the xi namespace to the docbook dtd
[01:19] <sivang> because you defined it once on the global.ent
[01:19] <froud> yes
[01:19] <sivang> ok
[01:19] <sivang> xinclude.mod is docboook std?
[01:19] <froud> any entity defined in global.ent is available to all documents
[01:19] <sivang> so when I need an entity I do
[01:19] <sivang> SYSTEM.<object> ?
[01:20] <froud> No 
[01:20] <froud> you do &entity-name;
[01:21] <froud> for example
[01:21] <froud> <!ENTITY ubuntu-bugzilla 'http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/' >
[01:21] <froud> bugzilla is referenced in mutiple books
[01:21] <froud> the location may chnage oneday
[01:21] <froud> change
[01:21] <froud> b'cause all docs call &ubuntu-bugzilla;
[01:22] <froud> we can change the value for this in one place
[01:22] <froud> global.ent
[01:22] <froud> and all docs are updated
[01:22] <froud> this is how I used it

[01:22] <froud>             <para>This document aims at answering questions that are asked frequently. It contains
[01:22] <froud>                 Wiki entries from the <ulink url="&ubuntu-web;">ubuntulinux.org</ulink> web
[01:22] <froud>                 site, the mailing lists and all the contributions we received through the Ubuntu Bugzilla.</para>
[01:22] <froud>         </abstract>
[01:22] <sivang> cool, I understand that this is what we achive by that, I am just a bit intrigued by the syntax iself, that is
[01:23] <sivang> I want to know why this defines it that way.
[01:23] <froud> see the above
[01:23] <froud>  <ulink url="&ubuntu-web;">ubuntulinux.org</ulink>
[01:23] <sivang> this is the usage, not the definition.
[01:23] <froud> this usage is calling &ubuntu-web;
[01:23] <froud> which equals
[01:23] <sivang> right
[01:23] <sivang> yes?
[01:23] <froud> <!ENTITY ubuntu-web 'http://www.ubuntulinux.org/' >
[01:24] <froud> if this value changes we just change it in global.ent
[01:24] <froud> as the doc system grows
[01:24] <froud> and things around us change
[01:24] <froud> we want a short way to update things
[01:24] <froud> this level of indirection shields us from these changes
[01:25] <sivang> yes! but:
[01:25] <froud> but
[01:25] <sivang> 13:17 < froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "xinclude.mod">
[01:25] <sivang> xinclude.mod = file shipped with the docbook distro?
[01:25] <froud> OK that is for xinclude
[01:25] <froud> yes
[01:26] <sivang> which is the code for incorporating namespaces into another?
[01:26] <froud> however, we will ship iiiiiiit also
[01:26] <froud> yes
[01:26] <froud> it add xi to several elements
[01:26] <sivang> ok, what is xi? X(ml) (I)nclude infrastrucutre?
[01:26] <froud> It also provide the xi:fallback
[01:26] <froud> yes
[01:26] <sivang> I see, ok now -
[01:27] <froud> so if a path to a file is wrong we will see the words FIX ME
[01:27] <sivang> basically what you did is 
[01:27] <sivang> define a new entity SYSTEM?
[01:27] <froud> It's not new its standard but I applied it to ubuntu docs
[01:28] <froud> we have a combination of Xinclude and entities
[01:28] <ChrisH> froud: Entities are nice... but the new layout is much uglier than before if you work with the sources. :)
[01:28] <sivang> could you please just explain the way you defined it again?
[01:28] <sivang> not the usage, the definition.
[01:28] <sivang> :)
[01:29] <froud> what xi or entities
[01:29] <sivang> xi
[01:29] <sivang> or how you decalred it on the global file
[01:29] <froud> OK to use XInlcude you need to extend the Docbook DTD
[01:29] <froud> xinclude.mod is that extension
[01:30] <froud> to make it known to the parser I define it in the external subset of the DocType Decl
[01:30] <froud> That is this part
[01:30] <froud> <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN" 
[01:30] <froud> 	"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [
[01:30] <froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "xinclude.mod">
[01:30] <froud> %xinclude;
[01:30] <froud> <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "global.ent">
[01:30] <froud> %globalent;
[01:30] <froud> ] >
[01:30] <froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "xinclude.mod">
 %xinclude;
[01:31] <froud> now when I validate the parser sees the xi namespace as valid for the dtd
[01:31] <froud> does that help
[01:31] <sivang> is this like saying: define xinclude of type SYSTEM , implementation is in xinclude.mod ?
[01:32] <sivang> the same for globalent?
[01:32] <froud> yes except I put them in a seperate file external to the document
[01:32] <froud> why?
[01:32] <sivang> like extern in C ? :)
[01:32] <froud> ok
[01:32] <sivang> ok = yes?
[01:33] <froud> so I can create a new instance of the object in each file
[01:33] <froud> ChrisH, looks dont count
[01:33] <froud> :-)
[01:33] <sivang> ok, what does the SYSTEM type means from the parser view?
[01:33] <froud> no
[01:34] <froud> When an ENTITY defines with SYSTEM it means look in the system the entity vlaue is external to the file
[01:34] <froud> example
[01:34] <froud> <!ENTITY quickguide-rev SYSTEM 'quickguide/VERSION'>
[01:35] <sivang> froud: be back in 30 ...gotta get some food, will read the backlog
[01:35] <froud> The value for quickguide-rev can be found in the file quickguide/VERSION
[01:35] <froud> ok back in 5 mins
[01:36] <froud> back
[01:36] <froud> ChrisH, r you following this stuff?
[01:38] <ChrisH> froud: A little... doing multiple things at the same time currently. :)
[02:19] <froud> ChrisH, I will document this in the wiki and give people links to things. Once this is done I will send mail about it to the list.
[02:20] <ChrisH> froud: Good boy! :)
[02:21] <ChrisH> froud: You are really teaching us a lot of good things. As I said... DocBook documentation is very rare on the internet. So having someone who really understands it is very helpful. Good to have you here.
[04:13] <froud> ChrisH, sivang, others can do svn up
[04:14] <froud> fq2 is now known as faqguide
[04:14] <froud> parts is known as userguide
[04:14] <froud> userguide.xml has moved to userguide/
[04:14] <hornbeck> thanks froud
[04:15] <froud> no wories
[04:15] <froud> worries
[04:15] <hornbeck> 15 revisions since about two hours ago?
[04:15] <froud> he he
[04:15] <froud> directory control is not easy
[04:15] <froud> :-)
[04:15] <hornbeck> guess not
[04:16] <froud> many small changes to be sure
[04:16] <hornbeck> right
[04:16] <froud> rather than one big change and no way back
[04:16] <hornbeck> I guess I can start on the userguide again
[04:16] <froud> yes
[04:16] <ChrisH> froud: I hope the revision number is 32 bits :)
[04:16] <froud> do you need explanation of how things hang together
[04:16] <hornbeck> write a email about it
[04:17] <froud> going to put it in wiki and will mail link
[04:17] <hornbeck> good deal
[04:17] <hornbeck> I am off to work again
[04:17] <froud> hornbeck, do yelp quickguide.xml
[04:17] <froud> you should know that it is now at docbook 4.3 as a test
[04:21] <froud> hornbeck, shaun from GDP will add task element to yelp so we can use it. Bugzilla is posted to GNOME and Shaun has accepted
[04:28] <froud> anybody who needs to work on userguide please do svn up a few small pieces I forgot to move are now moved. sorry for the inconvenience
[04:29] <froud> FYI current HEAD is at r128
[04:30] <froud> sorry
[04:30] <froud> r148
[04:37] <hornbeck> froud: pictures are broke in quickguide
[04:39] <ChrisH> froud: Could you consider turning off that auto-away?
[04:39] <froud> hornbeck, replace then with &inline-ubuntu-icon;
[04:40] <froud> so

[04:40] <froud> 	        <imageobject>
[04:40] <froud> 	            <imagedata fileref="../../../IconUbuntu.png" format="PNG" align="right"/>
[04:40] <froud> 	        </imageobject>
[04:40] <froud> 	    </mediaobject>
[04:40] <froud> becomes
[04:40] <froud>  &inline-ubuntu-icon;
[04:41] <froud> The value of  &inline-ubuntu-icon; is found in the file 
[04:41] <froud> common/inlinemediaobject-ubuntu-icon.xml
[04:41] <froud> as defined by entity
[04:41] <froud> <!ENTITY inline-ubuntu-icon SYSTEM 'common/inlinemediaobject-ubuntu-icon.xml'>
[04:41] <froud> in
[04:42] <froud> global.ent
[04:43] <froud> I have not yet ported all these issues
[04:45] <froud> hornbeck, you want it or shall I?
[04:46] <froud> ChrisH, done :-)
[04:46] <ChrisH> froud: Thanks. :)
[04:51] <froud> do we want to use nav graphics in the chunked output?
[04:51] <ChrisH> I vote for con. It does not help the user a lot.
[04:51] <froud> this only applies to HTML output
[04:51] <froud> not Yelp
[04:52] <ChrisH> Still con. :)
[04:52] <froud> OK nop prob
[04:52] <ChrisH> Just my vote. There are others left.
[04:53] <froud> not a problem I wil just commnet it from the custom layer
[04:53] <froud> Docbook has a special css, anyone here good with css (hint ChrisH )
[04:53] <ChrisH> froud: Yes, I am. :)
[04:54] <froud> you want to enhance it for ubuntu style etc
[04:54] <ChrisH> froud: k
[04:54] <ChrisH> froud: We started with the style sheet from plone. But it looked ugly. I'll fix it.
[04:55] <froud> ChrisH, do svn up
[04:55] <froud> cd libs/
[04:55] <froud> you will find the docbook css
[04:55] <froud> can I open a bugzilla for this?
[04:56] <ChrisH> froud: sure
[04:56] <froud> what's your email
[04:56] <ChrisH> froud: I'm home in 2 hours. I'll check it carefully then.
[04:56] <ChrisH> froud: email@christoph-haas.de
[04:56] <froud> ok
[04:57] <ChrisH> froud: mucho appetito
[04:59] <froud> ChrisH, see https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5051
[05:06] <sivang> ChrisH: what's up?
[05:06] <sivang> I had to take my workrave..now back
[05:09] <froud> guys do we want admon graphics
[05:09] <ChrisH> sivang: We are turning everything upside down again. The documentation is now in Microsoft Word 2004 format.
[05:09] <froud> ouch
[05:09] <ChrisH> froud: Perhaps. I'm using just text admons for my tutorials. That worked fine enough. Too many graphics quickly overload a page.
[05:09] <ChrisH> froud: Unless you have some very funny comic cliparts though. :)
[05:09] <sivang> ok, should I submit my resignation letter to you then? or to froud?
[05:10] <ChrisH> sivang: froud is the new boss. We fired Mark and Enrico.
[05:10] <sivang> ok, then, I am off to start a new distro
[05:10] <sivang> ciao!
[05:10] <froud> ok admons off until later, i will need to go get the icons from GNOME
[05:10] <ChrisH> sivang: Sivux?
[05:10] <froud> l'hit
[05:11] <sivang> ChrisH: hmm, that's a very good name! I hope you don't mind I use it and give you no credit?
[05:11] <sivang> :)
[05:11] <ChrisH> froud: And when all that tidying up is done we seriously need to get some words into the files. :)
[05:11] <ChrisH> sivang: Too late, already registered that as a trademark.
[05:11] <froud> you noticed
[05:11] <sivang> gaaah!!
[05:11] <sivang> Then, we meet at court :)
[05:11] <ChrisH> sivang: But it's no problem. I already sold the name to 50% Microsoft and 50% SCO.
[05:12] <ChrisH> sivang: They asked for your credit card number. ;)
[05:12] <sivang> ChrisH: so why my balance is -2000EU in debit?
[05:12] <sivang> :)
[05:13] <hornbeck> man revision 149
[05:13] <ChrisH> sivang: It has become really hard to shock you. Like my credibility has decreased. :)
[05:14] <sivang> ChrisH: hehehe
[05:14] <sivang> well, I just got used to your humor and find it great fun flowing with it :)
[05:14] <sivang> ChrisH: we should meet in person again soon, less busy more laughs would come I am sure :)
[05:15] <froud> guys when building docs is it ok for you if I do it in trunk
[05:15] <ChrisH> sivang: Oh, yeah. Just wait until we have our house. I'll reserve a terminal room with a pizza oven for you. :)
[05:15] <ChrisH> froud: you mean where the Makefile will be located?
[05:16] <sivang> ChrisH: hahaha! THANK YOU
[05:16] <froud> makefile is in trunk/
[05:16] <froud> where do you want the results
[05:16] <froud> of make all
[05:16] <sivang> anyway, back to bussiness.
[05:16] <ChrisH> froud: I'd say still in the trunk
[05:16] <sivang> faqguide is the korean faa ?
[05:16] <sivang> faq?
[05:16] <froud> Ok that's good
[05:16] <sivang> froud: trunk is the current develpometn bracnh?
[05:17] <froud> yes but builds dont get checked in
[05:17] <sivang> when do we clean all the other folders? do we still need them if everything is tidy up in trunk?
[05:17] <ChrisH> what else is there?
[05:17] <froud> there is a clean target
[05:17] <sivang> again
[05:17] <froud> look at makefile iiits not complete
[05:17] <froud> but it has the startings
[05:18] <froud> sivang, is always confused but we still love sivang 
[05:18] <sivang> well, yeah I tend to get confused , because I love to stay on control! MUHAAHAHA :)
[05:19] <sivang> ChrisH: is faqguide is the korean guy faq?
[05:20] <ChrisH> sivang: gq
[05:20] <ChrisH> sivang: Smells more like the current FAQ page from the /support section
[05:21] <ChrisH> sivang: plovs has introduced it in r84
[05:21] <sivang> ChrisH: nobody knows what is it?
[05:21] <ChrisH> sivang: your debian/ directory should also move...
[05:21] <sivang> surely with the new funky rocking organization somebody should know where it came from..
[05:21] <sivang> ChrisH: hey! nobody touches myd ebian dir! debina rules!
[05:22] <froud> keep the deb dir it has important stuff
[05:22] <ChrisH> froud: shouldn't the xinclude.mod be put into common/ ?
[05:22] <froud> well for some
[05:22] <froud> no it will move to libs/ later
[05:22] <ChrisH> sivang: Just move it into where you need it. It probably does not build a package of *all* documents, does it?
[05:22] <froud> as will global.ent
[05:22] <sivang> ChrisH: actually it calls the make file..
[05:23] <sivang> ChrisH: and builds html at the moment.
[05:23] <froud> NOTE TO ENRICO: *PLEASE DO NOT COMMIT ANY PRESENTATIONAL FORMATS TO SVN. THANKS*
[05:23] <ChrisH> sivang: Uh huh? Very weird... shouldn't it create a package?
[05:23] <ChrisH> Ouch... my ears...
[05:24] <froud> so he will add it to the new
[05:24] <froud> sivang, what are you on about qg and Korean
[05:25] <sivang> froud: There is a faq looking guide in www.ubuntuguide.org, which is done by some korean guy - the faqguide looks much the same, so I wanted to know if this is the one just imported to docbook, because I know plovs has been doing some work on it.
[05:26] <froud> is it in korean
[05:27] <froud> The docs in svn HEAD now are what was in SVN when I started
[05:27] <froud> I have no idea if that is from plovs since there are no bugzillas
[05:27] <froud> :-(
[05:27] <sivang> ok then it's not - no worries
[05:27] <sivang> I've got everything in control :)_
[05:27] <froud> :-)
[05:28] <sivang> probabyl nobody started to import it
[05:28] <sivang> ChrisH: c'ya
[05:28] <froud> bye
[05:30] <sivang> froud: have glanced at the guide?
[05:30] <sivang> it's in english
[05:31] <froud> yes I know I was worried for a moment
[05:32] <sivang> he basically compiled all of the good stuff that was available from the wiki + main website and organized it in a nice format.
[05:32] <sivang> (Accessible too)
[05:32] <sivang> so I recall talks from mataro about maybe importing into our docbook system
[05:33] <froud> sounds like a good idea
[05:33] <froud> I cant focus on this until I get a stable base for everyone
[05:33] <froud> at present people can add content though, the docs are read
[05:33] <sivang> yes ofcourse, I was just informing you.
[05:33] <froud> ready
[05:34] <froud> I am now working on our build system
[05:35] <froud> ok thanks
[06:30] <froud> who feels daring :-)
[06:31] <froud> I need a person to test the make file. It works on my system. Who agrees to be a tester
[07:20] <sivang> froud: I will 
[07:21] <sivang> r158
[07:21] <sivang> froud: what to do?
[08:09] <ChrisH> Okay... let's see what froud has broken today. :)
[08:17] <abelli> i think it's the right place... documentation.. culture..
[08:17] <abelli> what does fogo na bomba means?
[08:17] <abelli> btw, hi chrish... im the  new [after some days in casablanca]  cenerentola
[08:18] <ChrisH> abelli: Figured that already, Andrea. :)
[08:18] <abelli> how is your lady?
[08:18] <ChrisH> Oh, she's okay. Baby is in bed. Currently making some food.
[08:19] <abelli> good.. any clue about "fogo na bomba"?
[08:20] <ChrisH> Not really. Read it from a brazilian IIRC... no idea what it means.
[08:20] <ChrisH> Fog after bombardment?
[08:20] <abelli> hehehe... 
[10:30] <sid77> hi
[11:10] <froud> midnight in co za
[11:10] <froud> anyone tuned
[11:11] <froud> sivang, you have xsltproc installed, I   hope
[11:11] <froud> sivang, in trunk/
[11:11] <froud> do make all
[11:12] <froud> this should create build/ with HTML versions of all books.
[11:12] <sivang> froud: here. pong
[11:12] <froud> hey dude
[11:13] <froud> its midnight you still awake
[11:15] <froud> sivang, try build the docs
[11:15] <sivang> froud: let's try, run make from the trink dir?
[11:15] <froud> yes
[11:15] <froud> try with one target first
[11:16] <froud> do make ug
[11:16] <froud> this will build user guide
[11:16] <froud> You will get some errors related to xml base ignore them
[11:16] <froud> and then you will see it writing the html
[11:17] <froud> when its finished look in trunk/build/userguide/
[11:17] <froud> open index.html
[11:17] <sivang> pooh@tigershark ~/devel/docteam/faq/faq/trunk $ make ug
[11:17] <sivang> Building the Ubuntu User Guide . . .
[11:17] <sivang> mkdir -p build/userguide/
[11:17] <sivang> xsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/userguide/ libs/html-cust.xsl userguide/usersguide.xml
[11:18] <sivang> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"
[11:18] <sivang> compilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 6 element import
[11:18] <sivang> xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl
[11:18] <sivang> make: *** [ug]  Error 5
[11:18] <froud> Ok this is because you are running a system that does not have 
[11:18] <froud> /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl
[11:19] <sivang> how can I make my system have this?
[11:19] <froud> hmmm upgrade
[11:19] <froud> or put a folder (link)
[11:19] <froud> in this path
[11:20] <froud> you need to create the following path /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/
[11:20] <froud> youll need su
[11:21] <froud> the last folder current is a link to the root of your docbook xsl
[11:22] <froud> sivang, what is the path to your docbook xsl
[11:22] <sivang> froud: how to check that?
[11:23] <froud> ok I'mguessing here
[11:24] <froud> but look in /usr/share/sgml/
[11:25] <sivang> froud: sec
[11:25] <sivang> ok, it is
[11:25] <sivang> what to look for there?
[11:25] <froud> finish the path for me
[11:28] <sivang> I can do ls on it
[11:28] <sivang> eh soryr
[11:28] <sivang> /usr/share/sgml/docbook
[11:28] <froud> is that the dtd or xsl
[11:29] <sivang> have no idea.
[11:29] <sivang> pooh@tigershark /usr/share/sgml/docbook $ ls -la
[11:29] <sivang> total 1
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   6 root root  152 2004-11-18 23:51 .
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  13 root root  328 2004-11-14 14:55 ..
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 root root   80 2004-10-21 00:46 custom
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  10 root root  264 2004-10-21 00:45 dtd
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   4 root root   96 2004-11-13 03:52 stylesheet
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 1240 2004-11-19 01:51 yelp
[11:29] <froud> cd stylesheet
[11:29] <froud> ls
[11:29] <sivang> pooh@tigershark /usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet $ ls -la
[11:29] <sivang> total 0
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  4 root root  96 2004-11-13 03:52 .
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  6 root root 152 2004-11-18 23:51 ..
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  3 root root  72 2004-10-21 00:45 dsssl
[11:29] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root  72 2004-11-13 03:52 xsl
[11:29] <froud> cd xsl
[11:30] <froud> ls
[11:30] <sivang> pooh@tigershark /usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet/xsl $ ls -la
[11:30] <sivang> total 0
[11:30] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 72 2004-11-13 03:52 .
[11:30] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  4 root root 96 2004-11-13 03:52 ..
[11:30] <sivang> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 41 2004-11-13 03:52 nwalsh -> ../../../../xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh
[11:30] <froud> there she is
[11:30] <sivang> yes
[11:30] <sivang> this is probably the standard path for it under an future ubuntu system :)
[11:30] <sivang> why not setting the make file to include it from there?
[11:31] <froud> for now you can just vi Makefile 
[11:31] <froud> no sorry
[11:31] <froud> give me the full path
[11:32] <sivang> froud: maybe you should probe /etc/lsb-release to see what system the make is executed on and according to that set up the include paths
[11:32] <froud> yes I still need to investigate this
[11:32] <froud> best is to use catalogs
[11:32] <froud> that way it will work on any system
[11:32] <froud> the current method is hard coded
[11:33] <froud> look in libs/html-cust.xsl
[11:33] <froud> comment out the current import of profile-chunk.xsl
[11:33] <sivang> froud: eh, I'm getting too tired - maybe we can continue this tommorow ?
[11:33] <froud> ok just giv eme the full path
[11:34] <sivang> sec
[11:34] <froud> my debian box has something else
[11:34] <sivang> /usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet/xsl
[11:34] <froud> and
[11:34] <sivang> /usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet/xsl/nwalsh
[11:34] <froud> and
[11:34] <sivang> that;s it
[11:35] <sivang> wpps
[11:35] <sivang> woops
[11:35] <froud> you should have more
[11:35] <sivang> pooh@tigershark /usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet/xsl/nwalsh $ ls -la
[11:35] <sivang> total 15
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x  17 root root  480 2004-11-13 03:52 .
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 root root   72 2004-11-13 03:52 ..
[11:35] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 root root  938 2004-10-26 18:27 catalog.xml
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 1616 2004-11-13 03:52 common
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  104 2004-11-13 03:52 css
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  112 2004-11-13 03:52 eclipse
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  144 2004-11-13 03:52 extensions
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 1624 2004-11-13 03:52 fo
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 1888 2004-11-13 03:52 html
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  240 2004-11-13 03:52 htmlhelp
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   3 root root  888 2004-11-13 03:52 images
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  152 2004-11-13 03:52 javahelp
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  152 2004-11-13 03:52 lib
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  256 2004-11-13 03:52 manpages
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  216 2004-11-13 03:52 profiling
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  200 2004-11-13 03:52 template
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   4 root root  128 2004-11-13 03:52 tools
[11:35] <sivang> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 2992 2004-09-19 08:58 VERSION
[11:35] <sivang> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 1784 2004-11-13 03:52 xhtml
[11:36] <froud> ok that the place I have just done a commit
[11:36] <froud> do svn up
[11:37] <froud> then in trunk/
[11:37] <froud> do make ug
[11:37] <sivang> lots of watning
[11:37] <sivang> warnings
[11:37] <froud> yes
[11:37] <sivang> validity warning : Attribute base of element refsect3: already defined
[11:37] <sivang>  %common.attrib;
[11:37] <sivang>                 ^
[11:37] <sivang> xmlns:xi            CDATA       #FIXED       'http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude'
[11:37] <froud> complains about xml base
[11:37] <sivang> ^
[11:37] <sivang> validity warning : Attribute base of element article: already defined
[11:38] <sivang>  %common.attrib;
[11:38] <sivang>                 ^
[11:38] <sivang> xmlns:xi            CDATA       #FIXED       'http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude'
[11:38] <sivang> does it use fop?
[11:38] <froud> I need to patch this bug
[11:38] <froud> no
[11:38] <froud> no fop
[11:38] <froud> I just did not hav etime to patch it
[11:38] <sivang> ok
[11:38] <froud> it will write the files soon
[11:38] <froud> then cd build/
[11:38] <froud> ls
[11:40] <froud> Should be finished
[11:40] <sivang> still going..
[11:40] <froud> look for build/userguide/index.html
[11:40] <froud> geeze what processor u using its slow
[11:40] <froud> :-)
[11:41] <sivang> 2.6G HT
[11:41] <sivang> 512 mem
[11:41] <sivang> have you sent me a trojan horse? :)
[11:41] <froud> Get mor emem:-)
[11:41] <froud> no
[11:41] <sivang> half a gig is not enough? :)
[11:41] <froud> no 1 g or >
[11:41] <froud> :-)
[11:41] <froud> teasing
[11:41] <sivang> actually, it creates tons of connection to ww.doc-oasis.org
[11:42] <sivang> why does it do HTTP?
[11:42] <froud> yes cause you dont have the docbook 4.3 dtd
[11:42] <froud> so xsltproc goes to get the dtd from OASIS
[11:42] <froud> But new version ooof ubuntu will ship docbook 4.3
[11:43] <froud> and as I understand it also the xsl's in their correct places
[11:43] <froud> :-)
[11:44] <froud> still going
[11:45] <sivang> yes
[11:45] <froud> you did just build one target right, I meanyou did make ug
[11:45] <sivang> as soon as tsf would hire me, I would get some more mem
[11:45] <sivang> :)
[11:45] <sivang> froud: yes
[11:45] <sivang> froud: unemployed at the moment...:)
[11:46] <froud> whew I will have to make that patfor catalogs soon
[11:46] <froud> people will kill me if there builds are so long and slow
[11:46] <sivang> yes
[11:47] <sivang> especially if this is triggerd by my deb package, then they will want to kill me and I in return would come to kill you :))
[11:47] <froud> but when I'm finished with it, it will run like a dream
[11:47] <froud> its still rough around the edges
[11:48] <froud> first cut of the code always is
[11:48] <sivang> froud: new versino of ubunt? this is hoary ! the development version which supposed to include it no?
[11:48] <froud> btw there are now a number of targets
[11:49] <froud> should
[11:49] <froud> the targets are as follows
[11:49] <froud> all = build everything
[11:49] <froud> ug build userguide
[11:49] <froud> qg build quickguide
[11:50] <sivang> ok, it's done.
[11:50] <froud> faq build faqquide
[11:50] <froud> clean tidy the mess
[11:50] <sivang> yes I've seen the targets already
[11:50] <froud> ok look in trunk/build/userguide/
[11:51] <froud> index.html shold  do it
[11:51] <froud> Ok I am going to go. I have found a number of problem to fix in the morning. Thanks fo ryour help
[11:51] <sivang> looked at it.
[11:52] <sivang> nice, although I would have changed the font size and some of ther rendering 
[11:52] <sivang> but it's not you that has doen it - I Know :)
[11:52] <froud> small stuf for the team to do
[11:52] <sivang> we should have some discussion about this,
[11:52] <froud> ChrisH, is good with CSS
[11:52] <sivang> ChrisH: yes he is.
[11:52] <sivang> now I have to find what I'm good at :)
[11:52] <froud> he is assigned a bugzilla to do stuff with the css in libs/
[11:53] <sivang> great.
[11:53] <froud> can you write jscript
[11:53] <sivang> although I deeply despise it, I used to wrote alot of it for a living a year ago.
[11:54] <froud> ok I may have some java scripts for you to write, it will give me time to other stuff
[11:54] <sivang> did a complete sms reminder web site that was taken down eventually because the client of the company I wokrd for bailed out and dind't pay
[11:54] <froud> ooops
[11:54] <froud> hey must go
[11:54] <sivang> yes, now I have nothing to show :)
[11:54] <froud> c ya later
[11:54] <sivang> c'ya