=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:38] hornbeck: hello! Aroud? [02:50] enrico: hey [02:50] enrico: it's me [02:50] :) [02:52] Hello sivang ! [02:53] hey enrico ! since you went to taiwan we hardly talk :) [02:53] enrico: got my email? [02:55] enrico: I see you've been reworking bits of my wiki pages recently [02:55] :) [02:58] sivang: got your e-mail [02:59] sivang: reworking your wiki pages? Which ones? I mainly did lots of reparenting [03:01] enrico: just little additions here and there :) , are we still using them btw? [03:04] sivang: which pages are you mentioning? [03:06] eh right, mostly you are now compiling stuff from those pages into the faq? [03:09] sivang: just taken a bit for the "what is the documentation team" [03:10] enrico: ok, nice btw :) [03:43] sivang: are you busy now? [03:43] sivang: if you have time, would you like to help me out with the Docteam FAQ? === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:45] Doh! I hit C+A+Backspace [03:47] sivang: if you replied to me, I lost your answer [03:48] enrico: I will happily, but going to sleep now , almost 24 hours of no sleep.. [03:48] tommorow? [03:49] night! [03:50] sivang: 24 hours? ARGH! [03:50] Sure! Tomorrow! [03:50] Take a rest by all means! Good night! === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@218.111.149.83] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:55] African Greetings [06:57] hello froud! [06:57] morning [06:57] good afternoon [06:58] 07:51 [06:58] I see people are doing commits that's good. Now I have conflicks diff3 here I come [07:00] Conflicts with my commit? I thought I did only really minor things [07:00] Hope nothing too hard [07:00] Dunno I must have a look. Never a problem let SVN take care of it [07:00] that's why we have svn [07:00] :-) [07:01] SVN Goooooooood [07:01] SVN is good! [07:02] Hmmm yes. "Fortune Favours the Bold" [07:02] Is it possible to hook meld into svn to solve conflicts? [07:02] meld is also really good! [07:02] never tried it === enrico suggest [07:03] apt-get install meld [07:03] meld filea.txt fileb.txt [07:04] it's really cute. === froud confesses using SuSE as work horse === enrico pretends he didn't hear :) [07:09] http://meld.sourceforge.net/ === froud 's ubuntu box is on the side. Froud likes KDE [07:11] enrico, should work its just a diff tools [07:28] enrico, nice you have puut commnets in with links to possible content [07:29] this is a good method, perhaps everyone should use it. I will give people an idea of where they can do things [07:30] enrico, did you try' the make' [07:32] Trying make... [07:32] new laptop is missing software. apt-get install xsltproc... [07:32] warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl" [07:32] let me search for it [07:33] this is the problem with the paths I made a bugzilla for [07:33] you did not want to apply it caus eit would break build [07:33] look in libs/html-cust.xsl [07:33] you will find an xsl:import that is commented [07:34] uncommnet it and comment the other xsl:import [07:35] the problem is that different machines are at different versions so the docbook xsl is in diiiferent places [07:35] your machine must be new, cause it uses the new location for the docbook xsl's [07:35] I am hoping to fix this with catalogs [07:36] uhm, not necessarily. It may just be that the new laptop lacks the docbook-xsl package (installing now) [07:36] silly me, it was even listed among the dependencies in debian/control :) [07:37] oh dear I assume you have these installed [07:37] catalogs will help though [07:37] export XML_CATALOG_FILES=file:///tools/catalog.xml [07:37] Now it warns about something that looks like xincludes included twice [07:37] each person will just need to export this [07:37] yes thisis another bug for xml base [07:38] I will patch it [07:38] but its not a blocker [07:38] Still going on. Quite slow, it's probably accessing stuff from Oasis website [07:38] is it doing http requests [07:38] netstat confirms [07:39] you need to install docbook 4.3 [07:39] what's exporting XML_CATALOG_FILES for? avoiding http requests? [07:39] people have docbook dtd and xsl's in various places [07:39] with catalogs they can do this and we dont care [07:39] In debian sid, it works without exporting XML_CATALOG_FILES [07:39] they just export to their env [07:40] you are using sid [07:40] now [07:45] I have created https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5067 and assigned myself [07:45] to use xml catalogs [07:47] It should be possible to just put "XML_CATALOG_FILES=file:///tools/catalog.xml" and make should automatically export it to child processes [07:47] well we can do it in the make or people can add it their env [07:47] Uhm, maybe it's the opposite? Let me check [07:48] it's the opposite. let's see how to export make vars... [07:48] the problem is that the catalog.xml may be in different places [07:49] ok. Just adding "export " in the makefile exports it to children [07:49] on different systems [07:49] do we have a list of the possible places? [07:49] not really [07:49] but we can start by collecting a few catalog files from people [07:50] they can add the files as attachment in bugzilla [07:50] to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5067 [07:50] then I will add their files to our libs/ [07:50] named per os [07:50] distro [07:51] that way a person can just export the path to our catalogs [07:51] what do you think [07:51] moment. Toilet then I'll be back with a makefile snippet that tries various locations [07:51] even better [08:08] froud: here it is: [08:08] CANDS=\ [08:08] /etc/passwa \ [08:08] /etc/passwb \ [08:08] /etc/passwc \ [08:08] /etc/passwd [08:08] ifexists=$(shell test -e $(file) && echo $(file)) [08:08] PASSWD=$(firstword $(foreach file,$(CANDS),$(ifexists))) [08:08] $(warning $(PASSWD)) [08:09] export PASSWD if you want children to have that in their environment [08:10] I can add it to the makefile, if you're not working on it at the moment [08:10] looks good go for it :-) [08:10] groan... in the meantime, the documentation is still building [08:10] is it possible to make it point to a local copy of those oasis things? [08:10] I am writing the stuff for the docbook part of wiki [08:11] yes we can inlcude the dtd and xsl in th erepos [08:11] but most people should have it installed [08:11] yelp does not need this stuff [08:11] its only for us to buld html [08:12] Is it this thing that it's being downloaded now all the time? /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/catalog.xml [08:13] no its the dtd [08:13] xsltproc loads the dtd to get all entities [08:13] you can switch this optin off [08:14] ok [08:14] see xsltproc --novalid [08:14] but then xsltproc will not moan if the files are invalid [08:15] ok. Now, another question: what default value should use for the catalog search? I mean, what is the value used for XML_CATALOG_FILES when XML_CATALOG_FILES is not found in the environment? [08:15] hold [08:21] enrico, its different on systems [08:21] let me see if there is a standard approach somewhere [08:26] enrico, I have /usr/share/sgml/docbook/dtd/4.3/catalog.xml [08:26] if you hav ethe same then its good === froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@60.48.217.186] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:58] froud: hello back. I have it in a different location, but in my system it works anyway. I committed a makefile that searches both locations [08:59] OK will test it in awhile I want to finish the docbook wiki docs [08:59] However, I fear I'm breaking more than I solve, as it seems that distributions have a way of properly configuring the lookup path for the catalogs [08:59] sure [08:59] yes we need a constant method [09:00] I will look into it === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.7] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:33] enrico, what was the command for commiters to do a first time checkout from svn? [09:35] froud: should have been "svn co http://69.155.172.150/faq/trunk" === enrico hands a hot, creamy cappuccino to ChrisH [09:38] enrico: Ah, very good, sir. The change is for you. [09:39] ChrisH, hi. I mean for commiters [09:39] commiters [09:39] http://user.name@69.155.172.150/faq/trunk [09:40] froud: nope... you should get asked for the username and password during your first commit IIRC [09:40] enrico: hot, creamy cappuccino in Taiwan? [09:40] good morning everyone [09:40] morning [09:41] ChrisH, not sure about that [09:41] abelli: you'd be surprised [09:42] The taiwanese cappu can't be any worse than what I have on my desk. [09:42] enrico: well... [09:42] is it not better to do svn co http://username@69.155.172.150/faq/trunk and then enter user and pass when prompted on first checkout [09:42] . o O ( if only the machines wouldn't be so expensive ) O o . [09:42] froud: I didn't need it. The repository is readable for everyone anyway. And the check-in prompt automatically. [09:43] Turns out one of the guys at the local LUG is a coffee fanatic [09:43] enrico [09:43] ChrisH, OK [09:48] http://lento.uncasino.it/enrico/store/ProfessionalToni.jpg [09:48] For people who don't believe me [09:52] ...im off ciao [10:48] morning alll [10:48] Morning sivang ! [10:48] boker [10:48] morning froud :) [10:48] morning enrico! [10:49] any news? [10:49] ciao [10:49] working ;-) [10:49] sivang: ehi, I posted like 10 messages in the list, and you ask me "any news?" :) [10:49] abelli, going so soon [10:50] hehe [10:50] enrico: ok, I'll fire up mutt. I pretty used to it although using only "q" arrows and enter, m and y and d [10:50] :) [10:51] enrico: but it makes you much more productive then when using evo or mozmail [10:51] :) [10:52] eh. Now you have to learn how to use 'l' [10:52] 'l' and 'o' ROCK! [10:52] what does l and o do? [10:52] enrico: btw, youre muttrc rocks! [10:53] easy color , navigation [10:53] 'l' is 'limit'. It allows you to filter messages. For example, l enrico shows you only messages having to do with me [10:53] hey ppl... daniels didnt sleep for some night to get x.org working.. [10:53] why not thunderbird [10:53] it's so... so... graphical.. [10:53] abelli: when you get used to mutt, you'll understand :) [10:53] Then you can use modifiers: "l ~f enrico" shows messages FROM me; "l ~b Sivan" shows messages that talk about you, and so on [10:53] Outlook 2003 is also very graphical. :P [10:54] ChrisH: ;-) [10:54] well.. why not pine then? [10:54] ~h header, ~t "to". Then you do "l ~=" to see duplicated messages and "l ~F" to see messages you flagged important [10:54] License issues. :) [10:54] or just an mta [10:54] enrico: lemme try those :) [10:54] Important: "l ." to remove the filter [10:54] enrico: if I have an ssh key, i need just to copy it to the host machine and it will grant me access? [10:55] enrico: I am alrady using this pub ssh key to access 2 other machines.. [10:55] sivang: yes (the public key part, obviously). You can use ssh-copy-id for it: it's much easier and less error-prone [10:55] enrico: why thank you yet for another piece of unix knowhow! [10:56] btw people, enrico's traffic summaries are superb. [10:56] ...and dangerous... [10:56] ChrisH: ehi, you were a hero in yesterday's one! [10:57] enrico: Because I did a simple commit of a few lines in the README? :) [10:57] hehe, what could you ask for more? there's some comedy, moral, tips, tricks and well, important stuff we tend to forget now and then. [10:57] it's like the perfect sequal for the family to watch on holidays [10:58] sivang: Is there a TV channel for the Doc Team already? :) [10:58] I'm mounting the transmitter antenna now as I speak :) [10:58] enrico: I'm happy if the first sentence is not "ChrisH complained..." :) [10:58] ChrisH: come on. Let me find it for you [10:59] ChrisH: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2004-December/000824.html look for "ChrisH answered in detail" [11:01] "..many people have been talking to [11:01] screw everything that has been worked on and do it [11:01] differently [11:01] " [11:01] :) [11:01] very good : [11:01] Wiki is more a draft place or a place to organise. I think [11:01] it's okay for that purpose [11:01] I think this should be quoted for future generation so they'll know what mistakes to avoid. === sivang agrees 100% with ChrisH about the wiki's role in documenting a project. [11:03] and I like this also :" [11:03] Let's be open-minded. If it's nice, let's use it. Some aspects [11:03] are pretty neat. [11:05] enrico: Okay, I'm convinced. :) [11:06] can someone suggest a free antivirus for win32? [11:06] abelli: Ubuntu [11:06] ...dont swear... just remind the meaning of ubuntu :) [11:07] enrico: i know.. that.. im just installing it.. with my brand new fatx module.. [11:07] but the owner of the computer has many visual c++ programs.. [11:07] abelli: install ubuntu into a vmware box and stop using windoes :) [11:08] and win32 will be around until the porting under unix will be finished.. [11:08] enrico: im sorry im win32 free since september 2002 [11:09] never ever handled a ms product until sunday [11:10] abelli: fatx module? [11:12] yep.. fatx is the fs used by xbox [11:12] its part of the project RULE... Run Ubuntu Linux Everywhere [11:13] abelli: wowo cooool [11:13] so you have an xbox running ubuntu? [11:13] yes nice... [11:13] sivang: absolutely not.. [11:13] abelli: You should publish something about that, like a Wiki page or something like that [11:13] enrico: don't worry.. it's not ready. [11:14] it's the first module ever written by me.. [11:14] i changed my nick... only because i used "abelli" in it... [11:14] and when i released it to testers... [11:14] it was too late.. [11:15] to change. in some weeks it'll be public. [11:16] im also waiting for mako approval.. RULE is a bit temporary as name [11:18] what about clamav? [11:25] abelli: so you know how to hack kernel modules code.... === sivang wishes he knew how to do that [11:25] sivang: it's the first module. [11:25] sivang: im far away from ppl like fabbione, mjg [11:25] abelli: I'd settle for this, believe me. [11:26] does RULE has a website yet? [11:27] actually is just a groupware at ubuntuitalia.org/gware or sth like that.. [11:27] abelli: when was the project started? [11:27] a week before mataro' [11:28] abelli: where do you learn to hack kernel modules? [11:29] don't use hack.. im far before that point: [11:29] abelli: hey! an Idea! why to use M$'s crappy fs, and not plain ext3/xfs/reiser whatever linux support? [11:29] starting with k&R the c programming language, The Linux Kernel, 2.4 Kernel Internals, [11:30] and a bit of embedding linux di hollabaugh [11:30] abelli: don't get modest on me! A guy who enjoyes sovling descrete math problem, kernel hacking is nothing big to him :)) [11:30] abelli: I tried sometime ago to read 2.4, but if you use 2.6, how does it help you? or not much has changed? [11:31] well.. i need to get into the mood of something.. [11:31] just consider i never used c before.. [11:31] it was like "divide et impera" [or whatever it is..:)] [11:31] abelli: that's exactly what I was talking about :) [11:32] abelli: devide and conquer? [11:32] yes...ok... let's leave apart compliments when i'll marry [11:32] Cat Zeta Jones [11:33] abelli: heheheh :) [11:34] abelli: I'd prefer Jessica Alba, Cameron Diaz, Mel lisboa? :) [11:34] Cameron is WonderFul.. [11:34] but let's be productive... [11:35] otherwise enrico'll get crossed.. [11:35] abelli: right :) [11:35] and we don't want enrico to get crossed right ;) [11:35] abelli: ofcourse not! [11:35] enrico: how do I set mutt to use my ssh keys? [11:37] froud: ping [11:39] sivang: mutt to use ssh? To do what? [11:39] enrico: do impas using the ssh keys [11:40] enrico: instead of asking me the password everytime [11:40] sivang: ah, oh, yes. Uhm... look for "preauth" in mutt's documentation [11:41] tunnel="ssh -q mailhost.net /usr/local/libexec/imapd" [11:41] "preauth" is a good search key in mutt's documentation [11:42] not in the man page.. [11:42] going to the web docs [11:42] sivang: /usr/share/doc/mutt/manual.txt.gz [11:46] Uh Humm [11:46] enrico [11:46] ChrisH, [11:47] froud: yes? [11:47] sivang, [11:47] OK I have my document ready [11:47] need to discuss [11:47] froud: here [11:47] ChrisH, wanted me to fix https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocBook [11:47] me thinks my document replaces most of this [11:47] enrico: looks it doesn't care to explain much how to use it, just add this to the mutrrc file? [11:48] do I add a new page or do I modify the exiting one [11:48] sivang: should just need to add that, yes [11:48] my doc replaces about 90% [11:49] froud: You can rename the current page to OldDocBook and make a new DocBook; then link OldDocBook in it [11:49] Hmm link old docbook to it [11:49] maybe the other way around [11:50] no matter well sort it [12:00] froud: we should port the tsf's learn linux admin guide to ubuntu from debian 3.0 :) [12:01] do you know ho wto create a debian spec file [12:02] froud: spec file? I am not sure.. [12:02] I'm sorry I'm ignorant with rpm packaging [12:02] what about deb [12:06] I do debs :) === sivang is also doing bits of them :) [12:09] froud: Does it replace most of it really? I think we need something which is customised for the doc team work. === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.7] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.7] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:32] ChrisH, see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AboutTheUbuntuCoreDocumentationProject [12:32] draft in progress [12:32] btw does anyone want to fomat it I dont know the Z wki stuff [12:32] :-) [12:33] enrico, I want to packaged the project at http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za. Perhaps you can make a deb spec and create the package === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.7] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud plays with zwiki structured text [12:37] how to markup headings ? [12:38] ah ha, I see said the blind man to the deaf mute [12:41] Hmm not good. How to make sub headings [12:42] ah ha, I see said the blind man to the deaf mute [12:44] much beetter [12:52] froud: please use moin markup [12:52] we already agreed about it [12:52] if you use rest markup, some people wouldn't be able to modifiy your pages if they need to. [12:56] froud: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AboutTheUbuntuCoreDocumentationProject must be abbrivated before it can be really used, we shouldn't force our contributor to read so long pages..they will have to suffer enough with the docbook and other core utils guides.. [12:56] wont my formatting help ? [12:57] froud: I feel that we need to create a DocteamProcedures page, just like the HoaryProcedures page, and seperate the technicalities from the description of the project goals aims and responsibility. [12:58] froud: this is what I was trying to do with my first pages, so we got the /UDP page and /HowDoc from where we could probably link to technical instructions and prequisities IMHO [12:58] enrico? [12:58] ChrisH: ? [12:58] (oppinions) [12:58] Well that's is good, but for now I dont have a big picture, so am juts putting it here. [12:58] froud: ok, maybe we can afterwards devide and conquer [12:59] sure I put this page here so long cause people wnated something like this. The content is there now. We can use it as we please. [01:00] froud: :) [01:01] I still need to add things like how the repos is structured, how to make, what is globale.ent etc. But I think this is another page [01:03] froud: yes sure, this could be the docteam procedures overview page. [01:03] ideally, I would opt for pages that are as big as this : https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocBook [01:04] and try to give as much useful info in as must less size, so we won't loose pople on account of reading long articles, === froud thinks to himself, "Gee wiki sucks." [01:04] wiki is good for some very _specific_ uses, [01:04] for all the others, [01:04] it sucks badly. [01:04] :) [01:05] when someone is enough interested int he UDP, he should probably read the docbook guide to the docteam [01:05] :) [01:05] using the wiki for organization and plannig is actually pretty ok IMHO [01:07] Now that I know that (from you) this doc is not the most accurate that I can find for using docbook, but it set me up starting early , and made me enthusiastic about docbook [01:13] ok dudes, that's it for me for today. I must do some paying work :-) [01:13] b c'ing ya [01:14] froud: katerz [01:14] eh, laterz === enrico was having dinner [01:17] froud: I can create the debian/directory for the http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za if you want: just send me the released tarball [01:18] sivang: I would avoid to create yet another page for now, and maybe just use the FAQ until an entry becomes so long that it spins off [01:18] enrico: do man install-docs ---> this _is_ what we were loooking for _all_ our rigsteration needs. [01:19] enrico: that is , against scrollkeeper, doc-base, whtever [01:19] :) === sivang thanks seb128 (who's not here) for providing the insight. [01:19] cool! [01:20] yes :) it's amazing what a "go install doc-base source" instruction can teach yoiu :) === sivang cannot type. frozen fingers. [01:20] so cold there? [01:21] actually, it's 20C outside, [01:21] but the house is like _frozen [01:21] we can't seem to let the heat from the inside get in, [01:21] which is a plus on summer time. [01:22] enrico: this depend line should also be added to facilitate for install-docs [01:22] ${perl:Depends}, scrollkeeper, libunicode-string-perl [01:25] however the rules file, I would have to read the whole make manual to understand === abelli_ [~abelli@84.222.38.70] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:53] sivang: you tell me what you want the rules file to do and I can try and tell you how to do it [01:53] (but then, it's always good to read the whole make manual anyway) [01:54] enrico: I'll read the manual, I want to know how to make pure debian build script that , really rulez :) === abelli_ [~abelli@84.222.38.11] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:57] enrico: that doesn't use cryptic cddbs :) [01:58] sivang: you're welcome to use debhelper [01:58] sivang: maybe it's better to start with debhelper and then see [01:59] cdbs is a great tool, but maybe it's great only when you know well what's happening [01:59] Perhaps one should only start to use cdbs when it's clear what debhelper does. :) [02:00] enrico: sounds like it , yes. === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.11] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.94.82.41] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.94.82.41] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:40] under what license do we release documentation? [03:45] FDL or Creative Common ShareAlike 2.0 ? [03:47] I think they where talking CC [03:48] anyone second that? [03:50] Is it not better to use FDL for our purpose? [03:50] in all honesty, I could care less about license [03:50] as long as it is free for others to use [03:50] I want to add the LICENSE file to root of trunk [03:50] right [03:51] froud: gfdl [03:51] sivang: really? [03:52] froud: canonical wants GFDL basically, but each writer can decided per his doc [03:52] hornbeck: yes :) [03:52] I thought Enrico sent a email saying we where using CC [03:52] hornbeck: hmm [03:52] let me check the mail log [03:52]