[12:18] <Kinnison> Evening
[12:29] <sivang> Kinnison: hey!!!
[12:33] <Kinnison> sivang: irritatingly; since upgrading to latest-hoary; I can't input in hebrew :-(
[12:33] <Kinnison> bbl
[12:35] <Kinnison> Hmm, that may be better
[12:36] <sivang> Kinnison: you can
[12:36] <sivang> Kinnison: I already got over that
[12:36] <sivang> lemme see if I recall correctly.
[12:36] <Kinnison>  
[12:36] <Kinnison> Did that work right?
[12:36] <sivang>  !
[12:36] <sivang> yes!
[12:36] <sivang> :)
[12:36] <Kinnison> :-)
[12:36] <Kinnison> Did you get my email?
[12:36] <froud> He genre lo fair
[12:36] <sivang> lemme check
[12:36] <froud> gevre
[12:37] <sivang> froud: huh?
[12:37] <froud> ein li mekledet ivrit
[12:37] <sivang> froud: ahh
[12:37] <sivang>  
[12:37] <sivang> Kinnison: froud is the latest additoin to the docteam, courtesy of the tsf :)
[12:37] <Kinnison> the tsf?
[12:37] <froud> he ze memash yotze be ivrit
[12:37] <sivang> the shuttleworth foundation
[12:37] <sivang> :)
[12:38] <Kinnison> sivang: Not much is happening :-) You never told me how to reply in hebrew :-)
[12:38] <froud> no of my own accord :-)
[12:38] <sivang> froud: kidding
[12:38] <sivang> :)
[12:38] <sivang> Kinnison: anyway, back to our bussiness
[12:53] <mechanix> Greetings I've newly installed ubuntu on my laptop and I'm greatly impressed. I keep registering on the ubuntu website but my details are not being cached, apparently. How can I get around this?
[12:58] <sivang> mechanix: there some explenation on caching somehwere..
[12:58] <sivang> on the wiki I think
[01:09] <mechanix> I had a look around and there was a notice about notifying on this channel.
[01:13] <mechanix> Forget I mentioned this. I just tried logging in and it worked for the first time in days. I'll keep browsing the site. Well done to all those who've set all this up. 
[01:21] <sivang> mechanix: thank you!
[01:22] <froud> sivang, 
[01:22] <froud> you know all that   stuff in userguide/old
[01:22] <sivang> froud: yes?
[01:22] <froud> It was from an old FAQ
[01:23] <froud> what was the intention. to move it to the new faq
[01:23] <froud> ?
[01:23] <sivang> lemme look, ok?
[01:39] <froud> sivang, did you fall asleep :_)
[01:41] <sivang> froud: almost :))
[01:41] <sivang> froud: ok, this looks like there is some valuable info about it
[01:42] <sivang> I say ask more people when morning comes?
[01:42] <sivang> abotu 3 hours from now?:)
[01:42] <froud> yes small nuggets
[01:42] <froud> will you be awake then
[01:43] <froud> :-)
[01:43] <sivang> I hope so
[01:43] <sivang> :)
[01:43] <sivang> I have this huge hack to do in perl, C, and gtk 
[01:44] <froud> do you ever sleep
[01:44] <sivang> breal, but that should change quickly :) I am starting to loose my health :)
[01:44] <froud> must sleep
[01:45] <sivang> yes..
[01:45] <sivang> I must
[01:45] <froud> I had some time so I thought I woul dkill that old dir
[01:45] <sivang> don't kill it
[01:45] <sivang> let's just ignore it.
[01:45] <sivang> does it hurt us to have it here?
[01:45] <froud> not without moving it
[01:45] <sivang> there?
[01:45] <froud> once I have moved that stuff I want to kill it
[01:46] <froud> files are invalid and not used by anything else
[01:46] <sivang> froud: can you create a a special dir, old from under the trunk, and have mathcing dirs for everythign else which is now considred to be new?
[01:46] <sivang> this is to serve us by menas of backup.
[01:47] <froud> you have this in the svn
[01:47] <sivang> froud: if you want to get it away off your eyes, I suggest doing that.
[01:47] <froud> you can switch back and forth between revisions?
[01:47] <sivang> let's check
[01:47] <froud> not until I know the content is moved
[01:48] <sivang> then let's wait with it for morning.
[01:48] <froud> If you want to see revisions do svn log
[01:48] <froud> on trunk
[01:50] <froud> I started at r104
[01:51] <sivang> cool
[01:51] <sivang> :)
[01:51] <froud> yes and you can switch between revisions
[01:52] <froud> you can even switch between a branch and the trunk
[01:52] <sivang> ok, if you want to move that directory then I have no reason to object anymore,
[01:52] <sivang> but it's only me.
[01:52] <sivang> :)
[01:53] <froud> No it will be done when the work is done
[01:53] <froud> the content must be moved
[01:53] <froud> no pint wasting it there is some good stuff there
[01:55] <sivang> froud: ok, thanks for agreeing ont hat :)
[01:58] <froud> boy there is loads of junk stuff in the glossary file
[01:58] <froud> common/glossary.xml
[01:59] <sivang> seen you email, what do you mean all "strct" changes complete?
[02:00] <froud> all the major moves etc are done. people worried to do work incase they could not commit
[02:01] <froud> hehe even with a doctype decl glossary xml is invalid, check this
[02:01] <froud> E Unexpected element "guimenu". The content of the parent element type must match "(calloutlist|glosslist|itemizedlist|orderedlist|segmentedlist|simplelist|variablelist|caution|important|note|tip|warning|literallayout|programlisting|programlistingco|screen|screenco|screenshot|synopsis|cmdsynopsis|funcsynopsis|classsynopsis|fieldsynopsis|constructorsynopsis|destructorsynopsis|methodsynopsis|formalpara|para|simpara|address|blockquote|graphi
[02:01] <froud> c|graphicco|mediaobject|mediaobjectco|informalequation|informalexample|informalfigure|informaltable|equation|example|figure|table|msgset|procedure|sidebar|qandaset|task|anchor|bridgehead|remark|highlights|abstract|authorblurb|epigraph|indexterm|beginpage)+".	glossary.xml	file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu-docs/faq/trunk/common/glossary.xml	37:1
[02:01] <froud> E Unexpected character data " (3nd Extended) is currently the "native" FS for linux. ". The content of the parent element type is element only.	glossary.xml	file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu-docs/faq/trunk/common/glossary.xml	37:1
[02:01] <froud> E The content of element type "listitem" must match "(calloutlist|glosslist|itemizedlist|orderedlist|segmentedlist|simplelist|variablelist|caution|important|note|tip|warning|literallayout|programlisting|programlistingco|screen|screenco|screenshot|synopsis|cmdsynopsis|funcsynopsis|classsynopsis|fieldsynopsis|constructorsynopsis|destructorsynopsis|methodsynopsis|formalpara|para|simpara|address|blockquote|graphic|graphicco|mediaobject|mediao
[02:01] <froud> bjectco|informalequation|informalexample|informalfigure|informaltable|equation|example|figure|table|msgset|procedure|sidebar|qandaset|task|anchor|bridgehead|remark|highlights|abstract|authorblurb|epigraph|indexterm|beginpage)+".	glossary.xml	file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu-docs/faq/trunk/common/glossary.xml	37:1
[02:01] <froud> E Unexpected element "guimenu". The content of the parent element type must match "(calloutlist|glosslist|itemizedlist|orderedlist|segmentedlist|simplelist|variablelist|caution|important|note|tip|warning|literallayout|programlisting|programlistingco|screen|screenco|screenshot|
[02:01] <froud> This is th ekind of stuff have been fixing across each and every document
[02:04] <froud> people keep forgetting to add para inside listitems
[02:26] <sivang> wow
[02:26] <sivang> how do you fix something liek that?
[04:06] <sivang> enrico: hi!
[04:12] <enrico> Hello!
[04:12] <enrico> sivang: you need more cuddles and less computers... :)
[04:17] <sivang> enrico: cuddles?
[04:17] <sivang> what are these?
[04:20] <enrico> sivang: you definitely need more! :)
[04:21] <enrico> sivang: you also need to add the dict-applet to your panel
[04:21] <sivang> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HeBuntu
[04:22] <sivang> if you know anything about d-i, I'd love to hear how to go about it :)
[04:23] <sivang> especially the preseeding stuff :)
[04:27] <sivang> enrico: anywa,me off to bed.
[04:27] <sivang> night!
[04:28] <enrico> sivang: I have a link for you
[04:28] <sivang> enrico: ok
[04:28] <sivang> what is it?
[04:28] <enrico> sivang: svn co svn://svn.debian.org/debian-np/people/vagrant/simple-cdd
[04:28] <enrico> That's how I'd do it for Debian; it can probably be used also for Ubuntu
[04:29] <sivang> enrico: ok, I will let it co overnight :)
[04:29] <sivang> enrico: yes but they used "seeds" :)
[04:29] <sivang> anyway, can we talk aboutu it tommorow or over email?
[04:29] <enrico> sure.  Good night!
[04:29] <sivang> night! (morning for me)
[04:29] <sivang> :)
[08:46] <enrico> [froud] : hello!
[09:22] <enrico> froud: hello!
[09:23] <froud> African greetings
[09:23] <froud> what's up
[09:23] <ChrisH> german greetings
[09:23] <froud> Guten Dag Her ChrisH 
[09:24] <ChrisH> froud: Hello, Africa, tell me how you're doing. :)
[09:24] <froud> Fine just fine. Warm and sunny day
[09:25] <enrico> froud: I'm about to reply to your mail in the list
[09:25] <ChrisH> Same here... temperatures are above 0C. :)
[09:25] <enrico> so you won't complain that noone answers you :)
[09:26] <froud> envy
[09:28] <enrico> fround: sent!
[09:29] <froud> [proposal]  the maintainer of the Ubuntu Installation Guide would like to be notified of bugs we find in it. Create sub categories for all books = inst guide in bugzilla, send mail to him for Instalation Guide bugs
[09:30] <enrico> froud: "the maintainer", you mean, Colin?
[09:30] <enrico> makes sense to me
[09:30] <froud> Yes
[09:31] <ChrisH> enrico: Yikes! You italians scare me!
[09:35] <froud> [proposal]  split documentation bugzilla into installation, user, quick, faq, docbook apllication
[09:36] <froud> what do people think about http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuDocbookInterchangeProtocol
[09:37] <enrico> I
[09:37] <enrico> I'll be back in an hour or so
[09:38] <enrico> froud: oh, I see what you meant with Interchange Protocol.  Nice!  I like the idea!
[09:38] <enrico> Now I really will be back in an hour or so
[09:39] <froud> ok Im gonna have breakfast
[09:49] <froud> ChrisH, the content in userguide/old is all FAQ's did you intend to move it all to FAQGuide
[09:53] <ChrisH> froud: Good question. Last time we decided to merge it into the User's Guide. But we didn't have the FAQGuide back then.
[09:55] <froud> ChrisH, the general concepts can be rewritten and thus moved into UG, or we can just add them to FAQ after comparing texts on Wiki.
[10:12] <abelli> Buon Giorno Principesse
[01:48] <enrico> Hello.  Some Bugzilla experts around?
[01:49] <lifeless> Fsvoe
[01:59] <enrico> lifeless: hey!  Question: I've seen needs for a "installation guide" component/subproject/whatever inside the "documentation" product/component/whatever in Bugzilla
[01:59] <enrico> As you can see, I have no clues of what I could do to do it
[02:00] <enrico> The idea is having something representing the installation manual inside the Debian Installer package, to report bugs for Colin
[02:02] <lifeless> so you want a new area to file bugs on ?
[02:03] <lifeless> what you need to ask jdub for is a new 'package' called 'installation guide' in the 'documentation' product.
[02:11] <Kinnison> Afternoon
[02:11] <abelli> ciao
[02:13] <enrico> lifeless: oh, ok, thanks!
[03:04] <hornbeck> sivang: you around?
[03:05] <abelli> Kinnison: ciao
[03:06] <sivang> hornbeck: yeah, '
[03:06] <sivang> 'sup?
[03:06] <hornbeck> do you have a skype account?
[03:06] <Kinnison> abelli: ciao babe
[03:06] <sivang> Kinnison: hey, how are you ? :)
[03:07] <sivang> hornbeck: I had one, can't remember it though
[03:07] <sivang> hornbeck: can't you use voip?
[03:07] <sivang> :)
[03:07] <hornbeck> I have not tried to set up voip
[03:07] <Kinnison>  :-)
[03:07] <hornbeck> is there a tutorial somewhere
[03:07] <sivang> anyway , I have to get some food fast, see you all in a bunch
[03:08] <hornbeck> bye
[03:08] <sivang> hornbeck: basically, you should install linphone
[03:08] <sivang> first learn about linphone, then I'll come back and we continue
[03:10] <abelli> Kinnison: what do you think about ion?
[03:11] <Kinnison> abelli: it's a reasonably competent windowmanager. I don't like it personally but it seems to be well-liked by others
[03:11] <Kinnison> abelli: also; it uses Lua which makes it a plus in my books ;-)
[04:03] <abelli> mako: "remember me" by eminem... Rincominciamoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[04:03] <abelli> ;)
[04:09] <abelli> yesterday we talked about fatx and now let me announce that btlug's xbox cluster, that used to run the first european freedom toaster, has passed to better a life, i need them for bios's d3v4st3t10n, and will be substituted by a 3,6 GFLP mini.itx cluster thank you for everything you've done for it...
[05:49] <froud> ChrisH, shady now you need ops to change topic?
[05:50] <froud> Hmm or is that 4 today
[07:44] <Kinnison> hi abelli
[07:45] <abelli> ciao Kinnison 
[07:45] <abelli> how is life in ubuntu-doc tonite?
[07:52] <froud> can somebody call plovs in here please
[07:55] <froud> he is checking in invalid documents
[07:59] <ChrisH> froud: Oops. :)
[08:00] <froud> I've fixed it, but he is making markup errors
[08:02] <abelli> bye im off
[08:02] <abelli> ciao 
[08:03] <froud> I mean its good that people are doing checkin, but now we must get them to make it valid
[08:06] <froud> ChrisH, why do people do this

[08:06] <froud>      some text 

[08:06] <froud> why not just <para>sometext</para>
[08:07] <froud> What's wrong with this

[08:07] <froud> 					Applications -> Internet -> gFTP Client
[08:07] <froud> 				</para>
[08:09] <froud> better

[08:09] <froud>                     <menuchoice>
[08:09] <froud>                         <guimenu>Applications</guimenu>
[08:09] <froud>                         <guimenuitem>Graphics</guimenuitem>
[08:09] <froud>                         <guimenuitem>Acrobat Reader</guimenuitem>
[08:09] <froud>                     </menuchoice>
[08:09] <froud>                 </para>
[08:11] <froud> ChrisH, where is the section General Notes, I dont have such a section in the documents, but people seem to xref to it all the time?
[08:15] <ChrisH> froud: No idea. But if we don't allow syntactically incorrect postings then we will never advance. You are probably used to professional writers. These are volunteers who know DocBook for two months at max.
[08:15] <ChrisH> froud: Let's first get some words - wrong as they may be - into the documents.
[08:16] <ChrisH> froud: Syntax is the absolutely last thing that we need to take care of at the moment. I feel like we are still on our way to a syntactically so great work that God herself would cry out loud. But no user has even one word to read.
[08:16] <froud> OK, but what if I need to be off for a week on other work
[08:17] <ChrisH> froud: It's not only your work. Teach the people what's wrong and how to do it better. But for heaven's sake... let's support getting text into the files!
[08:17] <froud> I do
[08:17] <froud> but how to teach them?
[08:17] <sivang> froud: I suggest you write "How do write good docbook for the UDP" ?
[08:17] <sivang> UPD = Ubuntu Documentation Projects
[08:17] <froud> I thought your docbook reference was good
[08:17] <sivang> froud: it'a  dcobook reference, a general one.
[08:18] <ChrisH> froud: Accept that documents may be wrong. People will see if the text shows up in yelp or not. As long as it does - great. Our focus is the content - not the format.
[08:18] <froud> a few small changes but it was good
[08:18] <sivang> froud: maybe we could use a spefici one, with "common codeing guidelines" for the doc team?
[08:18] <ChrisH> froud: I also like to have the perfect framework for the text. But we need to find a line between perfect syntax and complete documentation. :)
[08:18] <sivang> that doesn't explain _how_ to do docbook, but what we exepct in our docbook
[08:18] <froud> sivang, I see that as a good idea
[08:19] <sivang> froud: thank you :)
[08:19] <ChrisH> I fear that we will - in some decades - even have a lot of documentation - that is even technically correct. But it will perhaps sound horrible because everybody is doing what he feels is right. That's another problem.
[08:19] <froud> ChrisH, other projects may want to use our stuff
[08:19] <ChrisH> froud: I hope so. :)
[08:19] <froud> not is a poor state
[08:19] <sivang> anyway, I'm in my break so c'ya laterz dudes.
[08:19] <froud> we need to hit both targets
[08:20] <froud> c ya
[08:20] <ChrisH> froud: Yes, that's true. But there are hardly any people that have as much enthusiasm regarding the project as you have. :)
[08:20] <froud> flattery gets you everywhere :-)
[08:21] <ChrisH> froud: I fear that someone finally commits a file and gets chainsawed and stoned not to commit such "trash" as long as the syntax is not godlike.
[08:21] <froud> No all I ask is valid and well formed
[08:21] <ChrisH> We could even have people who write into the Wiki and a DocBook team that gets things from the Wiki and docboox them.
[08:21] <froud> sure
[08:22] <froud> enrico added some links to wiki that he thinks can be used in docbook
[08:22] <froud> I think it is a good method to do this
[08:22] <froud> Add URL to wiki in comments
[08:24] <ChrisH> Finally we probably need a team of 5-10 contributors who are skilled in DocBook and know about which style is best for the documents.
[08:43] <froud> of to bed must tackle this with clear head. good night
[08:43] <froud> c ya all later
[09:09] <abelli> heloooouuuuuu lifeless :)