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| Kamion | Keybuk: s/pedant/build-essential-maint/ | 12:48 |
|---|---|---|
| mjg59 | Kamion: Damn you for getting back before me | 12:51 |
| === justdave [~dave@66.227.241.236.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | *sigh* weather applet has gone into a cyclone of hate | 12:59 |
| Kamion | mjg59: and I even had time for a glass of orange juice to absorb the BEER | 01:04 |
| Kamion | and it just took me three goes to type "absorb" | 01:04 |
| Keybuk | drunk :o) | 01:05 |
| daniels | Kamion: the orange juice didn't contain vodka, did it? | 01:21 |
| daniels | that can certainly negatively impact your ability to type 'absorb' | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | mmm... vodka | 01:21 |
| === daniels hugs duty-free. | ||
| Keybuk | heh, alright for some. none for us from Spain | 01:22 |
| Kamion | daniels: negatively impact your ability to absorb, for that matter | 01:22 |
| daniels | Kamion: (how many goes?) | 01:23 |
| Kamion | just the one that time | 01:24 |
| === Kamion fondly remembers a friend of his claiming that she "wasn't very bosber right now" on IRC | ||
| daniels | Kamion: i'll smack you if hoary-changes (amusingly, I typoed both 'changes' and 'typoed', quite badly [and 'badly'] ), I'll smack you | 01:25 |
| daniels | er | 01:26 |
| daniels | that sentence reads like it's I that's just come back from the pub. so let's just pretend this never happened, I'll go back to GTA:SA, and we can all move on. :) | 01:26 |
| Kamion | was there going to be a point to that sentence? :) | 01:26 |
| daniels | Kamion: if hoary-changes lights up with your name, I'll smack you ;) | 01:27 |
| Kamion | ah | 01:27 |
| daniels | public service | 01:27 |
| daniels | that was the point I was lamely attempting to convey | 01:27 |
| Kamion | fortunately I uploaded python2.4 before leaving for the pub | 01:27 |
| daniels | heh | 01:27 |
| Kamion | no, I'm just surreptitiously poking at cdimage behind the scenes. that can do no harm at all, can it? :) | 01:27 |
| Kamion | little things like the cdimage signing key | 01:31 |
| daniels | heh | 01:33 |
| daniels | at least elmo will know where to look ;) | 01:34 |
| === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | it's when he starts fiddling with germinate you have to worry | 02:06 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: yeah, only FREAKS work on germinate | 02:10 |
| Kamion | basic regular expressions suck. no '+'?! | 02:11 |
| Kamion | (not surprised, just discover new dimensions of hate every time I run into that lack-of-feature) | 02:11 |
| daniels | the kamion cyclone of hate | 02:12 |
| Kamion | beer-powered cyclone | 02:14 |
| === Keybuk teaches Kamion about "egrep" | ||
| Kamion | unfortunately it's sed, and busybox sed doesn't have -r | 02:20 |
| Keybuk | aww | 02:21 |
| === romspaceni [~romspacen@81-86-245-20.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| davyd | bug report for the latest installer image | 02:31 |
| davyd | you are depending on the python module UserDict | 02:31 |
| davyd | which you don't have | 02:31 |
| Kamion | davyd: fixed earlier today | 02:32 |
| davyd | Kamion: are the CD images rsyncable ? | 02:32 |
| Kamion | yes | 02:32 |
| davyd | excellent, is there an appropriate URL ? | 02:33 |
| Kamion | there isn't a new CD image with that fix yet though, wait 9 hours or so | 02:33 |
| davyd | aah right | 02:33 |
| davyd | I'm already going to not have a working system when I go to work... ;) | 02:33 |
| Kamion | rsync://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/cdimage/daily/current/ | 02:33 |
| davyd | the fix, it's quick and nasty, is to netcat it off another Ubuntu machine | 02:33 |
| davyd | or I guess python installation in general | 02:34 |
| Kamion | I just moved UserDict into python2.4-minimal, that's the correct fix | 02:34 |
| davyd | Kamion: doesn't help if all you have is a bad CD image though ;) | 02:34 |
| Kamion | since os.py depends on it | 02:34 |
| Kamion | shouldn't use dailies if you need something that works :) | 02:34 |
| davyd | Kamion: I know that, but it seemed like the fastest way to get Hoary | 02:35 |
| Kamion | that's what the Array CD series is for | 02:35 |
| davyd | array series? | 02:35 |
| Kamion | the installer in the dailies might be arbitrarily broken | 02:35 |
| Kamion | search for "Subject: Array CD 2" in ubuntu-users | 02:35 |
| Kamion | hm, I can roll a new CD image now if it'd help, but it'll take an hour or so | 02:36 |
| davyd | nah, I got it installed | 02:36 |
| Kamion | ok | 02:36 |
| davyd | like I said, I copied the module across via netcat | 02:36 |
| Kamion | heh. could also have extracted it from python2.4_*.deb, which is on the CD | 02:36 |
| davyd | Kamion: yeah, I had wondered about that, but I just wasn't sure of the specifics | 02:37 |
| davyd | why is it done with a minimal and the real thing? | 02:37 |
| Kamion | or indeed an easier fix, 'nano /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hoary' and add 'python python2.4 libbz2-1.0 libdb4.2 libssl0.9.7' to the end of the required= line | 02:37 |
| Kamion | because we have a goal for hoary to put python into Essential, i.e. the minimal set of stuff required for the packaging system to work | 02:37 |
| davyd | also, there really needs to be a simple netinst CD that will suck all these packages off the net for me, is there any chance of ever seeing one? | 02:38 |
| davyd | Kamion: aah, I see | 02:38 |
| Kamion | there's a netboot image | 02:38 |
| davyd | I couldn't find it, so maybe it's nicely hidden | 02:39 |
| Kamion | yep | 02:39 |
| Kamion | http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso | 02:39 |
| davyd | not just a little hidden, really very hidden ;) | 02:39 |
| Kamion | not hugely keen on advertising it too widely at the moment because it isn't well-tested, and particularly in the development branch it's very fragile | 02:39 |
| davyd | Kamion: *nod* | 02:40 |
| Kamion | but you're right, we should probably advertise it more widely for the hoary release | 02:40 |
| Kamion | not to mention making it work better | 02:40 |
| davyd | oh well, hopefully I can at least rsync my home directory back onto this machine before I have to go to work | 02:41 |
| davyd | then I can finish setting it up at work ;) | 02:41 |
| davyd | that's not pretty | 02:41 |
| davyd | filesystem type unknown 0x7 | 02:42 |
| davyd | hmm, grub had decided that all partitions were on /dev/hda1 | 02:47 |
| Kamion | you may need to do this in /boot/grub/menu.lst: | 02:48 |
| Kamion | map (hd0) (hd1) | 02:48 |
| Kamion | map (hd1) (hd0) | 02:48 |
| Kamion | (in the Windows chainloader section) | 02:48 |
| Kamion | I'd make that happen automatically if I had a clue how to detect the systems where it's needed | 02:48 |
| Keybuk | isn't it needed wherever Windows is on a different drive? | 02:49 |
| Kamion | non-hda/sda you mean? how do you tell which of IDE and SCSI is first if both are present? | 02:50 |
| tseng | only if windows isnt on the first master drive | 02:50 |
| davyd | also, why does it want to run aptitude? | 02:50 |
| romspaceni | is unbutu like debian? | 02:50 |
| Kamion | davyd: the full aptitude UI? probably because the ubuntu-desktop task was uninstallable in the image you downloaded | 02:51 |
| davyd | Kamion: nice | 02:51 |
| Kamion | which http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html would tend to support | 02:51 |
| davyd | can I installed it and get it to finish the config process? | 02:51 |
| Kamion | yes, go down to tasks, drill down 'til you see ubuntu-desktop, install that, ignore broken stuff | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | yeah, current hoary is uninstallable | 02:52 |
| Keybuk | elmo sucks and hasn't processed NEW | 02:52 |
| Kamion | romspaceni: "Ubuntu"; in many ways yes, in some ways not, depends what you're asking about :) | 02:52 |
| === davyd sighs | ||
| Kamion | I thought he had, I saw stuff in my hoary seed diff mail | 02:52 |
| davyd | perhaps I should have installed warty and dist-upgraded | 02:52 |
| Keybuk | davyd: same problem | 02:52 |
| Keybuk | install of ubuntu-desktop's deps except evolution | 02:52 |
| Keybuk | The following packages have been kept back: | 02:53 |
| Keybuk | evolution evolution-data-server libebook1.2-0 libedataserverui1.2-0 | 02:53 |
| davyd | oh right, I can build evo debs | 02:55 |
| davyd | work time though | 02:55 |
| davyd | later all | 02:55 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: what's it waiting for? | 02:55 |
| Keybuk | not sure, some evo dep | 02:56 |
| Keybuk | evolution-exchange hasn't been updated yet, so probably something under that | 02:57 |
| Keybuk | ask seb | 02:57 |
| Keybuk | in fact, it looks to me like seb was mistaken and he hasn't uploaded evolution-exchange | 02:57 |
| === Kamion attempts to understand tzsetup | ||
| Kamion | maybe I should just create a zoneinfo-udeb | 03:01 |
| Kamion | it would be kind of nice if the timezone question came right after language and country, but that's Hard | 03:02 |
| daniels | elmo: I have so much respect that I can now run a three-man gang. | 03:12 |
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| mjg59 | daniels: Haha | 03:30 |
| mjg59 | How long have you had it? | 03:30 |
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| lamont | daniels: you around>? | 04:04 |
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| daniels | lamont: got your email | 04:47 |
| daniels | mjg59: two days | 04:47 |
| lamont | daniels: cool | 04:47 |
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| moquist | is there a mailing list I can query about finding a mentor so I can learn to create ubuntu packages? | 04:53 |
| moquist | (I think I saw one mentioned here once) | 04:54 |
| === sm is now known as sm-away | ||
| tseng | moquist: actually, you should know a good bit before you try and get a mentor | 05:02 |
| tseng | start reading the new maintainer handbook and the deb policy | 05:02 |
| tseng | http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ | 05:02 |
| moquist | tseng: I've been through much of the deb policy doc. The deb maint-guide looks great; I'm still looking for the new maint handbook. Thanks for your help, btw. | 05:11 |
| tseng | that is the new maint guide | 05:11 |
| moquist | tseng: Oh; I assumed it was an ubuntu doc. | 05:11 |
| tseng | it covers almost everything around package creation + maintainence | 05:11 |
| tseng | ubuntu does a few things a little different on the backend of things, but i dont think there is a comprehensive doc | 05:12 |
| moquist | tseng: btw, the package I'm interested in is the LTSP. Do you know if anyone is already working on it? I know it's on Mark's list of things to do for Hoary. (It could be done for all I know - I've been on vacation for a week and haven't checked. ;) | 05:12 |
| tseng | there is a debian page of packages on the wishlist | 05:12 |
| tseng | its mentioned in the new maint guide, i believe | 05:13 |
| sivang | moquist: there isn't such, at least not yet. | 05:14 |
| moquist | sivang: k; thx. | 05:14 |
| sivang | moquist: there are plans to extend the ubuntu set of new maint docs, but there is a new page on the wiki with some starters for interested people. | 05:15 |
| moquist | sivang: that's where I found myself while looking for a new Ubuntu maintainer handbook. | 05:15 |
| moquist | sivang: it's already helping. :) | 05:16 |
| sivang | moquist: eh ok :) great, the doc team intends to invest some effort into that matter eventually :) | 05:17 |
| tseng | moquist: oh also | 05:19 |
| tseng | install and read the docs for cdbs | 05:19 |
| moquist | tseng: am doing. thx. | 05:24 |
| sivang | tseng: there are docs now? :) | 05:24 |
| tseng | sivang: enough to get started at least | 05:24 |
| sivang | tseng: what's the pkg name? | 05:25 |
| sivang | tseng: (for docs) | 05:25 |
| tseng | cdbs | 05:26 |
| sivang | eh :0 | 05:26 |
| sivang | :) | 05:26 |
| sivang | k, thanks | 05:26 |
| tseng | i dont recall if they were packaged or on the site | 05:26 |
| tseng | https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial_2fCDBS | 05:27 |
| sivang | tseng: I can't see no doc dir , probably on the wiki.. | 05:27 |
| jbailey | Err, did I fail to include the docs in the package? | 05:38 |
| sivang | jbailey: if you would, it would have appeared under /usr/share/cdbs/doc no? | 05:38 |
| jbailey | I know we generate some basic docs. | 05:38 |
| jbailey | /usr/share/doc/cdbs, but yeah. | 05:38 |
| sivang | jbailey: eh ok :) it's there. | 05:39 |
| sivang | my abd | 05:39 |
| sivang | *bad | 05:39 |
| daniels | jbailey: hey dude. good somewhere-other-than-work period? | 05:41 |
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| jbailey | daniels: Nope, still working evenings. This should be the last one. If you /msg, I'll answer but a bit lagged. | 05:42 |
| daniels | jbailey: Ah, nice one. | 05:42 |
| jbailey | sivang: While I'm around, I'll try to answer cdbs questions. | 05:42 |
| sivang | jbailey: eh nice , I have one for you! | 05:43 |
| sivang | :) | 05:43 |
| sivang | jbailey: I have a couple of docs files I want to register against docbase or scrollkeeper (well, mostly scrollkeeper as I want them to appear in yelp) how can I use cdbs to do that? | 05:44 |
| sivang | jbailey: so after I install the pacakge, I would have the docs viewable from yelp. those are DocBook XML sources. | 05:44 |
| jbailey | I think there's a debhelper module for that, no? | 05:46 |
| jbailey | The best bet when there's a debhelper module is to set those files up and just use debhelper.mk | 05:46 |
| sivang | jbailey: ok, I have tried setting them up and called debhelper class - guess my omf is not complete or wrong. tnx anyway. | 05:49 |
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| srbaker | anyone know where i can get ant and other jakarta utils packaged for ubuntu? | 06:11 |
| sivang | jbailey: from the man pages of the dh_scrollkeeper command, I don't quite understand where it exepcts the files to be, could you toss a hint here? | 06:19 |
| jbailey | Oh, oy. I haven't used dh_scrollkeeper. Might best ask some gnome hackers. | 06:28 |
| crimsun | sivang: debian/$package/var/... if you're using dh_scrollkeeper | 06:33 |
| crimsun | gnome.mk calls it | 06:33 |
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| sivang | crimsun: could you offer a better way then using the gnome build class? it exepcts autotools and others, which I can include int he docs pkg but would prefer to pass, or is it compulsory for registering dobook docs using cdbs? | 06:45 |
| crimsun | sivang: afaik it's the preferred method. seb128 would be the one to ask. | 06:47 |
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| === sivang thinks of throwing in the autotools just for sake of gnome and cdbs class compatibility. | ||
| sivang | crimsun: tnx | 06:51 |
| crimsun | np | 06:53 |
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| davyd | arrg, ubuntu-desktop is still uninstallable | 08:43 |
| Treenaks | davyd: gnome-related brokenness? | 08:50 |
| davyd | Treenaks: evolution-exchange is uninstallabe | 08:50 |
| Treenaks | blame seb128 :) | 08:50 |
| Treenaks | we do | 08:50 |
| davyd | I can do that | 08:51 |
| davyd | Kahn!!!^WSeb!!! | 08:51 |
| davyd | I'm trying to work out how to work around the missing dependancy | 08:52 |
| Treenaks | apt-get -f install? | 08:52 |
| === boglot [~logbot@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Treenaks | or recompile ubuntu-meta ? | 08:53 |
| davyd | someone should upgrade the kernel to include Orinoco 0.15, rather then 0.13e | 09:24 |
| davyd | magic will happen, like working AP scanning | 09:24 |
| Treenaks | davyd: poke fabbione | 09:31 |
| === Treenaks feels like a redirector-bot | ||
| davyd | heh | 09:31 |
| davyd | I might have a swing at packaging it later, although I suspect this will require some magic, like perhaps learning how to do diversions | 09:31 |
| davyd | since I'll want to install using filenames already in the tree | 09:32 |
| Treenaks | fabbione updated loads of drivers for 2.6.10 | 09:32 |
| davyd | is that packaged now? | 09:32 |
| crimsun | hm. I'm thinking bittorrent* in hoary needs to be recompiled against current python2.4 | 09:32 |
| Treenaks | I think so | 09:32 |
| davyd | quick question, what's the incantation ubuntu uses for wireless cards? | 09:33 |
| davyd | I saw it earlier | 09:34 |
| davyd | but this time I installed off ethernet | 09:34 |
| Treenaks | uh isn't it all in /etc/network/interfaces ? | 09:37 |
| Treenaks | iface eth0 inet dhcp | 09:37 |
| Treenaks | name Wireless LAN card | 09:37 |
| Treenaks | wireless_essid youressid | 09:37 |
| Treenaks | wireless_key yourwepkey | 09:37 |
| davyd | Treenaks: it didn't write it there for me | 09:40 |
| davyd | there is a whacky mappings section too | 09:40 |
| davyd | which is what I'm vague on | 09:40 |
| Treenaks | oh I have that too :) | 09:40 |
| Treenaks | it's there so when you hotplug the card it gets ifupped | 09:40 |
| Treenaks | mapping hotplug | 09:41 |
| Treenaks | script grep | 09:41 |
| Treenaks | map eth0 | 09:41 |
| davyd | it has similar sections for ethernet as well? | 09:41 |
| Treenaks | ppp0 in my case, but yes | 09:42 |
| Treenaks | but I don't hotplug my ppp connections ;) | 09:42 |
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| abelli | kamion: ping | 09:50 |
| fabbione | morning | 10:21 |
| abelli | ciao | 10:21 |
| fabbione | ciao | 10:22 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: you've been poked by davyd | 10:23 |
| davyd | morning fabbione | 10:24 |
| davyd | I was wondering if you were going to package Orinoco 0.15 with your kernels any time soon? | 10:24 |
| fabbione | guys i am really sick today | 10:24 |
| fabbione | i am not working since yesterday | 10:24 |
| fabbione | just checking emergency emails before crashing again | 10:24 |
| davyd | that's cool | 10:25 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: well, good luck then | 10:25 |
| fabbione | davyd: please send me all the details of the driver including upstream url and stuff like that | 10:25 |
| fabbione | this wlan stuff should die | 10:25 |
| davyd | fabbione: ok, I'll get around to it once I unfuck my laptop | 10:25 |
| fabbione | they don't deserve all this attention | 10:25 |
| davyd | it might have been merged into 2.6.10... I haven't checked | 10:26 |
| fabbione | please do | 10:27 |
| === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | humpf | 11:15 |
| fabbione | there is a big regression in 2.6.10 | 11:15 |
| fabbione | pcmcia_core has been renamed to pcmcia | 11:15 |
| Treenaks | urgh | 11:16 |
| mvo | 2.6.10 has some problems with my system ... I got two hangs at startup so far | 11:18 |
| Treenaks | I had a nice one with my Via X driver.. it starts fine, but as soon as the first windows needs to be filled X crashes with "Inappropriate ioctl for device" (this is Debian sid) | 11:19 |
| fabbione | mvo: 2.6.10 isn't the best we could get from upstream | 11:19 |
| mvo | yeah :/ | 11:19 |
| fabbione | uh yeah | 11:20 |
| fabbione | pcmcia udebs are cracked | 11:20 |
| === ogra [~ogra@p508EB00A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| lupusBE | jdub: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162414 what do you think :) | 11:48 |
| fabbione | hmmm no | 11:59 |
| fabbione | pcmcia_core is still there | 11:59 |
| fabbione | these gratuitos CONFIG_* rename are really a pain in the ass | 11:59 |
| === Todd_MA_1975 [~Todd_MA_1@h000f6632661b.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| pitti | Hi folks | 01:13 |
| Treenaks | hey pitti | 01:14 |
| sjoerd | pitti: morning | 01:14 |
| === lupusBE [~chatzilla@D5E03E71.kabel.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| ogra | hi pitti | 01:18 |
| lupusBE | daniels: how is xcb doing? | 01:19 |
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| Kamion | abelli: pings should include content :) | 01:25 |
| === pitti_ [~martin@dialin-145-254-076-042.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| abelli | Kamion: ping foreach (hoary's grub-instal) do-es (break grub) | 01:31 |
| Kamion | well, if you know how to fix it ... :) | 01:31 |
| Kamion | it's been working for me | 01:31 |
| abelli | Kamion: i tried to install array-2 hoary and then at reboot-time it prints the word "GRUB" endlessly | 01:32 |
| abelli | Kamion(it's been working... ;): im happy for you :) | 01:33 |
| Kamion | you'll need to (a) file a bug rather than doing this on IRC (b) dig down a bit into what grub-installer is doing | 01:34 |
| abelli | Kamion: i'd love to... may be can you tell me how? | 01:34 |
| Kamion | normal shell tracing tools, 'set -x', then look at how it's calling grub and do that by hand, etc. | 01:35 |
| Kamion | I can't teach you how to debug, though :) | 01:36 |
| abelli | Kamion: why not Her Professor ;)? | 01:36 |
| Kamion | (that would be "Herr") | 01:37 |
| abelli | oops.. sorry | 01:37 |
| abelli | like miyagi and daniel san | 01:38 |
| abelli | :) you teach.. i "wax on".. "wax off" :) | 01:39 |
| Kamion | we really need somebody else on the team who's better at dealing with bootloader problems | 01:39 |
| Kamion | no, I simply can't teach how to debug, it's like teaching how to walk or something :) | 01:39 |
| abelli | well birds follow other birds to learn how to fly.. | 01:39 |
| abelli | ;) can i follow you ? | 01:39 |
| Kamion | bit hard considering you're not in the same place | 01:40 |
| Kamion | the only way to learn is to try | 01:40 |
| Treenaks | abelli: just compile something with debugging symbols and run it in gcc | 01:41 |
| Treenaks | abelli: uh gdb | 01:41 |
| Treenaks | abelli: then get out the gdb manual and start poking around :) | 01:41 |
| Kamion | (grub-installer is shell so doesn't need debugging symbols) | 01:41 |
| abelli | Kamion: that's what i was talkin about | 01:41 |
| Treenaks | Kamion: oh wait.. it's shell.. | 01:41 |
| abelli | Treenaks: Perl Debugger power ;) | 01:53 |
| Treenaks | abelli: perl debugger is scary.. I debug perl with warn()s | 01:53 |
| Treenaks | abelli: and I debug XS modules using gdb :) | 01:53 |
| Kamion | abelli: anyway, regardless, please file a bug about bugs rather than asking me about them on IRC, thanks. :) | 01:53 |
| abelli | Kamion: ups sorry i just thought this was the 2nd part of the discussion we had...mmm... yesterday | 01:54 |
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| fabbione | hey Kamion | 02:34 |
| davyd | can someone paste the magic -mapping- lines from /etc/network/interfaces please? | 02:36 |
| Treenaks | davyd: again? :) | 02:38 |
| Treenaks | mapping hotplug | 02:39 |
| Treenaks | script grep | 02:39 |
| Treenaks | map eth0 | 02:39 |
| davyd | Treenaks: I kinda lost it ;) | 02:39 |
| davyd | perhaps I suck ;) | 02:40 |
| Treenaks | davyd: "DOH" :) | 02:40 |
| fabbione | does anybody know if ipw2200 firmwares require any special naming? | 02:41 |
| fabbione | apparently they have been renamed recently and i would kinda like to avoid to break | 02:41 |
| mjg59 | fabbione: Ok, I haven't managed to break 2.6.10 yet | 03:08 |
| fabbione | mjg59: good for you :-))) | 03:14 |
| fabbione | pcmcia is broken because of pcmcia_core being compiled in instead of module | 03:15 |
| === Todd_MA_1975 [~Todd_MA_1@h000f6632661b.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| mjg59 | fabbione: Oh. Whoops. | 03:39 |
| mjg59 | Anyone here running on the vesa framebuffer? | 03:39 |
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| davyd | gah, where is the SSL in Evolution gone? | 04:08 |
| Treenaks | davyd: #5093 | 04:08 |
| Treenaks | davyd: and http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=70895 | 04:08 |
| === pitti [~martin@dialin-145-254-078-111.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| davyd | interesting | 04:22 |
| davyd | and here I was blaming Ubuntu | 04:22 |
| davyd | although, I'm still tempted to, I think it might be fixed in cVS | 04:23 |
| lupusBE | if the bugreport is set to fixed | 04:23 |
| lupusBE | it is in cvs | 04:23 |
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| davyd | good point | 04:25 |
| lupusBE | :) | 04:25 |
| davyd | I'll rephrase | 04:25 |
| davyd | when building CVS, I did not notice that | 04:26 |
| robtaylor_ | hmm, is the fastbootup stuff in hoary now? | 04:26 |
| davyd | hmm, seb was complaining recently about the AC adapter not sendings events properly | 04:52 |
| davyd | now that I'm running Ubuntu on the same hardware... this is a damned Ubuntu bug | 04:52 |
| davyd | only I don't know where | 04:52 |
| === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === shaya [~spotter@pcp07712323pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| shaya | anyone using evolution w/ ssl? | 05:06 |
| davyd | shaya: it's broken | 05:07 |
| davyd | I've already complained about it | 05:07 |
| lupusBE | XInternAtom | 05:07 |
| lupusBE | davyd: and http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=70895 | 05:07 |
| lupusBE | copy paste :) | 05:07 |
| shaya | sigh | 05:08 |
| === shaya goes off to look for older packages | ||
| shaya | fsck | 05:13 |
| shaya | downgraded and now it crashes on startup | 05:13 |
| === JanC [~JanC@D57620E0.kabel.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === shaya [~spotter@pcp07712323pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === shaya very annoyed | ||
| davyd | shaya: evolution-data-server will need downgrading too | 05:15 |
| davyd | I should downgrade, but I'm not sure I can arsed | 05:16 |
| shaya | I did | 05:20 |
| davyd | and restarting? | 05:20 |
| shaya | Version: 1.1.1-0ubuntu1 | 05:20 |
| shaya | yes | 05:20 |
| shaya | slay'd me | 05:20 |
| shaya | restarted d-bus | 05:20 |
| davyd | ok, apparently Ubuntu sucks ;) | 05:21 |
| shaya | what I dont get is why in the world do package upgrades require me to restart | 05:21 |
| davyd | because you can't replacing running shared libraries easily? | 05:22 |
| shaya | breaking out thunderbird | 05:23 |
| === haggai [~halls@i-83-67-20-196.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| siretart | shaya: ah, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with that problem :) | 05:33 |
| === usual [~colin@alb-69-202-45-196.nycap.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === pitti [~martin@dialin-145-254-078-185.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | mvo: can I tell apt-get to ignore failed signatures? I would like to install some packages from woody (for upgrading tests) | 05:47 |
| fabbione | pitti: it's almost the end of 2004 | 05:52 |
| pitti | fabbione: indeed | 05:53 |
| fabbione | you are supposed to be out getting drunk and having fun | 05:53 |
| pitti | fabbione: I go to our party in about an hour | 05:53 |
| davyd | 2004 was like an hour ago | 05:53 |
| pitti | davyd: happy new year! | 05:53 |
| fabbione | davyd: 2005 is a few hours ahead here | 05:53 |
| fabbione | ;) | 05:53 |
| pitti | fabbione: what about you, when you will leave? | 05:53 |
| fabbione | pitti: i won't | 05:53 |
| fabbione | <- doesn't feel good | 05:53 |
| pitti | oh? | 05:53 |
| fabbione | i will have some quiet dinner here at home | 05:54 |
| fabbione | that's it | 05:54 |
| === pitti feels sorry for fabbione's conditin | ||
| pitti | fabbione: I wish you a nice evening anyway! | 05:54 |
| fabbione | pitti: nah don't worry | 05:54 |
| pitti | and everybody else, too | 05:55 |
| fabbione | i hate all these holidays anyway | 05:55 |
| fabbione | ;) | 05:55 |
| fabbione | have fun man | 05:55 |
| pitti | I will | 05:55 |
| fabbione | and see you next year | 05:55 |
| === pitti already bought some firework ;-) | ||
| ogra | pitti: guten rutsch ;) | 05:55 |
| fabbione | ehhe | 05:55 |
| pitti | .. and I prepared lots of food | 05:55 |
| pitti | ogra: Dir auch! | 05:55 |
| fabbione | fooood.. hmmm | 05:55 |
| fabbione | i am hungry | 05:55 |
| pitti | fabbione: I prepared fish with vegetables and potatoes, salad and chocolate pudding with vanilla sauce | 05:56 |
| fabbione | hmmmm | 05:56 |
| fabbione | not bad | 05:56 |
| === pitti watches fabbione getting envious and nervous | ||
| fabbione | i am going to have "fondue" | 05:56 |
| fabbione | basically it's a big pot of boiling oil | 05:56 |
| pitti | fabbione: oh, I like fondue, too | 05:56 |
| fabbione | ah ok.. so you know what it is | 05:57 |
| fabbione | with salad, vegetables | 05:57 |
| fabbione | and garlic bread | 05:57 |
| pitti | hmmm | 05:57 |
| fabbione | + some kind of sweets | 05:57 |
| fabbione | i still have to decide which ones | 05:57 |
| pitti | fabbione: just take all :-) | 05:57 |
| fabbione | thanks god i only have some fever | 05:57 |
| fabbione | and i didn't lost appetite :PO | 05:57 |
| pitti | fabbione: if you are still hungry, that's a good sign | 05:57 |
| fabbione | pitti: yeah i know | 05:57 |
| fabbione | but i never loose my appetite | 05:58 |
| fabbione | even with 40 of fever | 05:58 |
| pitti | so long, I wish everybody a happy evening! See you next year! | 05:58 |
| fabbione | cya pitti! | 05:58 |
| ogra | ciao | 05:58 |
| === pitti cares for his gf now and goes to party :-) | ||
| fabbione | happy new root hole | 05:58 |
| pitti | ciao | 05:58 |
| === pitti laughs | ||
| fabbione | ogra: have fun too | 05:58 |
| davyd | * pitti cares for his gf now and goes to party :-) | 05:58 |
| davyd | <fabbione> happy new root hole | 05:58 |
| davyd | mmm, context | 05:58 |
| fabbione | davyd: pitti is our security release guy ;) | 05:59 |
| ogra | fabbione: you too ;) have a nice silent one | 05:59 |
| fabbione | the one that does the USN :-) | 05:59 |
| === pinhead STARTS A NEW HELL WHERE TO BURN SOME SOULS RIGHT AT 12:00 | ||
| davyd | it occurs to me, it's probably only funny if you're Australian | 06:00 |
| davyd | never mind | 06:00 |
| ogra | *g* | 06:00 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: kernel souls? ;) | 06:00 |
| fabbione | Treenaks: SOULS | 06:00 |
| davyd | oh, I think my laptop boots | 06:00 |
| fabbione | all our users souls | 06:00 |
| davyd | I only had to rebuild the kernel exporting symbols I shouldn't | 06:00 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: KERNEL SOULS? | 06:00 |
| davyd | and build a 10 month old nvidia driver | 06:00 |
| fabbione | USERS SOULS | 06:00 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: even better :) | 06:01 |
| fabbione | ehehhe | 06:01 |
| fabbione | including your | 06:01 |
| fabbione | Uha UHA UHA | 06:01 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: I'm a UBUNTITE | 06:01 |
| Treenaks | (or something) | 06:01 |
| === fabbione prepares the last upload of the year | ||
| fabbione | Treenaks: something :-)= | 06:02 |
| fabbione | the queen is talking on the radio | 06:02 |
| fabbione | boring | 06:02 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: queen of what? | 06:02 |
| fabbione | Denmark | 06:02 |
| Treenaks | they have a queen there? | 06:03 |
| Treenaks | hm. | 06:03 |
| fabbione | yeah they do | 06:03 |
| davyd | is she Australian? | 06:05 |
| davyd | or is that the princess | 06:05 |
| davyd | or is that the Dutch? | 06:05 |
| === davyd can never recall | ||
| fabbione | the princess is from australia | 06:06 |
| fabbione | the big fat wedding was like in Aug | 06:06 |
| fabbione | or something like that | 06:06 |
| Treenaks | davyd: no, the Dutch crown prince married Argentinian woman.. daughter of a minister from $oppressinggovernment.. | 06:08 |
| Treenaks | +an | 06:08 |
| fabbione | bah it's all the same crap | 06:09 |
| fabbione | they just eat and live with our money (taxes) | 06:09 |
| fabbione | and don't tell me they do something important more than a few speeches here and there | 06:10 |
| fabbione | because i really find them useless | 06:10 |
| fabbione | i am off guys | 06:12 |
| ogra | ciao | 06:12 |
| fabbione | for you lifeless creatures that will stay on the net.... | 06:12 |
| fabbione | 2.6.10-2 is on the way and it should fix some regressions | 06:12 |
| fabbione | have fun | 06:12 |
| fabbione | ciao ogra | 06:12 |
| ogra | :) | 06:13 |
| === _rene__ [~rene@dsl-082-083-168-184.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Treenaks | yay.. Walking Bookmark Repository strikes again (ubuntu-users@) | 06:16 |
| === _rene__ is now known as _rene_ | ||
| ogra | Treenaks: Walking Bookmark Repository ? | 06:18 |
| Treenaks | ogra: see my mail on -users (about shell scripts ;)) | 06:18 |
| Treenaks | ogra: people sometimes call me a walking bookmark repository | 06:18 |
| Treenaks | ogra: because of the URLs I keep shouting at them :) | 06:19 |
| ogra | ah, not here yet ;) | 06:19 |
| ogra | did you send a abs-howto link ;) | 06:19 |
| Treenaks | ogra: not quite | 06:19 |
| Treenaks | Message-ID: <20041231171436.GB24291@facecrime.net> | 06:19 |
| sladen | okay. looks like o#ubuntu we have a widely found issue of the GDM panels starting but nothing more getting loaded | 06:23 |
| sladen | only fix seems to be reboot; but with me it's currently 100% failure rate. Any GNOME people want to give me a hand in what to hunt down? | 06:24 |
| Treenaks | sladen: killing gnome-vfs-daemon and blocking programs also fixes it 50% of the time for me | 06:25 |
| sladen | blocking programs? | 06:26 |
| Treenaks | sladen: programs that hang | 06:26 |
| Treenaks | sladen: the panel, nautilus etc. | 06:27 |
| ogra | sladen: it often happens for people that ran nautilus as root.... | 06:27 |
| Treenaks | ogra: I didn't do that, it still happens | 06:27 |
| ogra | Treenaks: i didnt say you did that, and i assume you got hoary anyway..... | 06:28 |
| sladen | ogra: okay, we can discount that theory then | 06:28 |
| Treenaks | ogra: oh this is a warty thing? | 06:28 |
| ogra | Treenaks: afaik a chown -r can solve it on warty | 06:28 |
| sladen | I (think) I've had it under Warty. However it'd been getting worse (1 in 6 say) and now with a full dist-upgrade 1 hour ago it's 100% (so far) failure | 06:29 |
| Treenaks | ogra: oh that's the ICEAuthority thing? from running K3B as root? | 06:29 |
| ogra | Treenaks: nope, thats running nautilus as root for editing the "system" app menu..... | 06:30 |
| Treenaks | ah ok | 06:30 |
| ogra | which is kind of nonsense | 06:30 |
| sladen | interesting. Left it five minutes. Reappeared at the GDM login screen (presumbley a watchdog). Loged in again and it came up immediately | 06:31 |
| Treenaks | yikes.. ruby looks like the evil mutant child of perl and python | 06:31 |
| sladen | Treenaks: correct :-) | 06:31 |
| ogra | sladen: anything in ~/.xsession-errors ? | 06:32 |
| sladen | gnome_execute_async_with_env_fds = -1 | 06:33 |
| sladen | wonder if it's related to session handling. Lets try and break it again | 06:33 |
| sladen | progressive. Background *and* show-all-windows applet | 06:34 |
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| ogra | sladen: tried with a fresh user ? | 06:36 |
| trulux | hi! | 06:37 |
| sladen | ogra: interesting idea | 06:37 |
| ogra | sladen: ...to divide between config and program errors | 06:38 |
| Treenaks | ogra: unless the program writes b0rken config files | 06:38 |
| ogra | Treenaks: true :) | 06:39 |
| sladen | fresh new user comes up great with only an error 'no volume control elements or devices found', which I presume is Audio rather than Disk related | 06:39 |
| ogra | sladen: a group thing, new users have less group permissions | 06:40 |
| sladen | logout, login as me again == failure | 06:40 |
| ogra | sladen: so i assume its something in your config | 06:40 |
| sladen | gdm restart && login as 'fred flintstone' brings up ''I've detected a panel already running and will now exit'' | 06:42 |
| sladen | leaving poor 'fred' with nothing but a background | 06:42 |
| ogra | sladen: thats a known one...kill the running panel..... | 06:42 |
| sladen | sudo pkill -u fred | 06:43 |
| ogra | yep.... | 06:43 |
| davyd | woo! it only too a custom kernel, 8 month old graphics drivers, and a magic xorg config | 06:44 |
| davyd | but I think I have my laptop basically working again | 06:44 |
| sladen | login again as 'fred' and failure (show-all-windows and background only) | 06:44 |
| davyd | hmm, it likes to spend time configuring network interfaces, which I think it a little silly | 06:45 |
| ogra | sladen: looks like Treenaks is at the right track.... | 06:46 |
| Treenaks | or it is just plain random hanging.. i.e. a race condition somewhere | 06:47 |
| sladen | ogra: I'm inclined to agree | 06:47 |
| sladen | what's puzzling me is that sometimes zero, one or two of (show-all-windows applet and background come up) | 06:48 |
| ogra | Treenaks: but it works the first time fine..... | 06:48 |
| sladen | are they just the first two items in the load order | 06:48 |
| Treenaks | ogra: always? or sometimes? | 06:48 |
| ogra | Treenaks: good question.... i was guessing.... | 06:48 |
| sladen | sudo -u fred rm -r /home/fred/.gnome* && it works again | 06:49 |
| sladen | logout, login, okay | 06:50 |
| Treenaks | why is mutt "stuttering" when I browse my mail over IMAP? | 06:52 |
| Treenaks | sladen: I really think it's race thing, as it happens here 50% of the time | 06:52 |
| Treenaks | (because mail_check == 5) | 06:55 |
| sladen | cya? | 06:57 |
| === moquist [~moquist@pool-64-222-129-228.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sladen | Treenaks: what's because mail_check == 5 ? | 07:03 |
| === Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| ogra | sladen: <Treenaks> why is mutt "stuttering" | 07:03 |
| Treenaks | sladen: what ogra says :) | 07:03 |
| sladen | okay. Just got excited there for a moment | 07:04 |
| davyd | who here cares about power management in Ubuntu | 07:05 |
| davyd | besides seb | 07:05 |
| Treenaks | all laptop owners :) | 07:06 |
| Treenaks | mjg59 too | 07:06 |
| davyd | I mean from a dev point of view | 07:06 |
| Treenaks | mjg59 then | 07:06 |
| davyd | I think I've solved Seb's problem of never receiving ac_adapter events | 07:06 |
| davyd | the script is too long, so the event arrives about 30 seconds late | 07:07 |
| davyd | or sometimes it seems, not at all | 07:07 |
| ogra | 30 second ? lol | 07:07 |
| mjg59 | Eww | 07:08 |
| mjg59 | How does it do that? | 07:09 |
| davyd | mjg59: events aren't forwarded on the socket until after the script has done processing on them | 07:09 |
| davyd | I think it's so you can jam them | 07:09 |
| davyd | and do other things | 07:09 |
| davyd | your script takes forever and a day to execute | 07:09 |
| davyd | I managed to improve interactivity by wrapping it in power_script() { } | 07:10 |
| davyd | and going power_script & at the end | 07:10 |
| davyd | this at least causes things like the battery applet to update immediately | 07:10 |
| davyd | however, the script does execute too slow | 07:10 |
| davyd | so other things I'm doing, like changing LCD brightness happen much after I expect them | 07:11 |
| mjg59 | davyd: Hrm. Where is it actually taking the time? | 07:11 |
| mjg59 | Adding a set -x to the top and tail -f /var/log/acpi.log ought to show you that | 07:12 |
| davyd | mjg59: hang on, I'm just changing other things | 07:12 |
| davyd | you are able to use, if on_ac_power; then | 07:12 |
| davyd | on_ac_power is a program provided by something or other | 07:13 |
| davyd | should be quicker then grepping I feel... | 07:13 |
| shaya | yay | 07:13 |
| shaya | evolution works | 07:13 |
| mjg59 | davyd: It's a shell script that greps :) | 07:13 |
| === shaya does a jig | ||
| shaya | davyd: it's been fixed | 07:13 |
| mjg59 | on_ac_power actually does /more/ greps than power.sh | 07:13 |
| davyd | mjg59: does it? | 07:14 |
| davyd | what else is it doing? | 07:14 |
| mjg59 | Which? on_ac_power? | 07:16 |
| mjg59 | It greaps for on-line and then greps again for off-line | 07:16 |
| mjg59 | No idea why | 07:16 |
| === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| davyd | interesting... | 07:18 |
| mjg59 | davyd: Sometimes the xscreensaver stuff seems to take some time if the user isn't logged in | 07:18 |
| davyd | mjg59: I've taken that out, it's still slow | 07:19 |
| mjg59 | Very odd. | 07:19 |
| mjg59 | If you could try set -xing it and then tailing the output, that would help a great deal | 07:20 |
| davyd | I'm playing with that now | 07:20 |
| davyd | there is an f-ing sleep 5 in there... | 07:21 |
| davyd | I wonder what that is meant to do? | 07:21 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, that was to work around an acpi bug where the status wasn't always updated the moment the event appeared | 07:22 |
| mjg59 | (IIRC) | 07:22 |
| davyd | nice... | 07:22 |
| davyd | ok, well I'm removing that, and a lot of other cruft | 07:23 |
| davyd | I recommend that you wrap the entire script in a function() { } | 07:23 |
| davyd | and call function & at the end | 07:23 |
| davyd | to stop it blocking events | 07:23 |
| davyd | that should unfuck things like battstat | 07:24 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, but it'd be nice to know /why/ it's blocking events | 07:24 |
| davyd | mjg59: because acpid is a POS? | 07:24 |
| mjg59 | Ah, sorry, not that - I know that it serialises everything | 07:24 |
| davyd | you can probably use exit codes to eat events or somesuch | 07:24 |
| mjg59 | But why the script is taking so long | 07:24 |
| davyd | mjg59: the sleep 5 can't help ;) | 07:24 |
| davyd | I've taken that out, and the X probing stuff and the x screensaver stuff | 07:24 |
| davyd | and now it's nice | 07:24 |
| mjg59 | The X stuff is fairly necessary, until we get HAL love | 07:25 |
| davyd | I don't need any of those things anyway ;) | 07:25 |
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| mjg59 | Was someone working on battery support for HAL? | 07:27 |
| davyd | sergey I think | 07:27 |
| Treenaks | that would rock | 07:27 |
| === davyd swaps out powernowd for cpufreqd which seems to actually do stuff | ||
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| mjg59 | Hrm. We tended to find that powernowd behaved a lot better. | 07:30 |
| davyd | many people have said so | 07:31 |
| davyd | I haven't managed a lot of joy with it | 07:31 |
| davyd | I hate them both | 07:32 |
| === davyd installs cvs | ||
| davyd | mjg59: http://live.gnome.org/PowerManager | 07:32 |
| mjg59 | davyd: Yeah, that sort of thing | 07:33 |
| davyd | mjg59: that's my grand vision | 07:33 |
| mjg59 | Mm. Nice. | 07:33 |
| davyd | as soon as HAL gets it's act together I'm writing it | 07:33 |
| davyd | along with weather.gnome.org | 07:34 |
| davyd | which we should have reading for 2.12 | 07:34 |
| Treenaks | davyd: as long as PowerManager doesn't become the useless bloated PoS that NetworkManager is becoming... | 07:34 |
| davyd | Treenaks: I haven't got that working yet | 07:34 |
| davyd | is it in Hoary now? | 07:34 |
| Treenaks | davyd: ask Thom about it | 07:34 |
| mjg59 | NetworkManager /was/ going to be the default in Hoary | 07:35 |
| davyd | but? | 07:35 |
| Treenaks | mjg59: until the authors smoked some BAD crack | 07:35 |
| mjg59 | It, uh, doesn't really work | 07:35 |
| davyd | aah | 07:35 |
| mjg59 | It's a mess of scary race conditions internally | 07:35 |
| davyd | nice... | 07:35 |
| Treenaks | it doesn't save its state to /etc/network/interfaces. it doesn't use /etc/network/interfaces to READ state | 07:35 |
| Treenaks | it doesn't use ifup/ifdown, but re-implements everything | 07:36 |
| davyd | Treenaks: that's by design | 07:36 |
| mjg59 | netapplet is entirely and utterly the wrong answer, but has the side effect of working | 07:36 |
| davyd | although it should wrap ifup and ifdown | 07:36 |
| Treenaks | davyd: it doesn't.. they implented their own DHCP client | 07:36 |
| Treenaks | (and we know how well RedHat DHCP clients work *cough*pump*cough*) | 07:37 |
| davyd | heh | 07:37 |
| davyd | the basis behind not using everyones network config system is a good idea | 07:38 |
| davyd | non of them work well in the desktop space | 07:38 |
| Treenaks | davyd: /etc/network/interfaces + mapping would | 07:38 |
| davyd | network/interfaces is great for machines that never change IPs | 07:38 |
| davyd | and fantastic for things with routers | 07:38 |
| davyd | and sysconfig is simply not good for anything | 07:38 |
| Treenaks | davyd: maybe a /etc/network/interfaces.d with a file for each network (by name) | 07:38 |
| davyd | Treenaks: or maybe not trying to hack a solution together ;) | 07:39 |
| davyd | and instead let users control it | 07:39 |
| Kamion | /etc/network/interfaces is the thing that installers understand, though, and everything else in the distribution | 07:39 |
| Treenaks | davyd: yes, read the BOF notes from the conference | 07:39 |
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| Treenaks | davyd: this was discussed there :) | 07:39 |
| Kamion | if you don't give a damn about integration with distributions, NM's approach makes sense; unfortunately integration is kind of important if you happen to be the distribution | 07:39 |
| mjg59 | Having two methods for working with network configuration is pain | 07:39 |
| davyd | I mean, the idea behind PowerManager is to get rid of those hokillion daemons | 07:39 |
| davyd | and the config crack | 07:40 |
| davyd | and have no more random shell scripts | 07:40 |
| mjg59 | davyd: Yeah, that makes sense | 07:40 |
| davyd | and just have an applications, with some nice plugins, that knows ALL the state | 07:40 |
| davyd | no unix sockets, not constantly polling proc and blocking the kernel up | 07:40 |
| davyd | beautiful and clean | 07:40 |
| davyd | and dbus | 07:40 |
| Treenaks | davyd: that's different.. power has a set amount of states and configuration is broken atm. networks already have a configuration interface | 07:40 |
| mjg59 | Abstracting at that level is the right thing to do | 07:40 |
| davyd | lots of dbus | 07:41 |
| mjg59 | But network interfaces are already abstracted at about that level | 07:41 |
| Treenaks | davyd: unless PowerManager is going to aim to replace acpid, then I'll personally kill the devs | 07:41 |
| davyd | Treenaks: that's part of the plan yes | 07:41 |
| davyd | acpid is a piece of shit | 07:41 |
| Treenaks | davyd: as long as I don't need f'ing gconf to configure it I won't mind too much | 07:41 |
| davyd | Treenaks: nah, that sounds painful | 07:42 |
| davyd | although users might have gconf settings they feed to it via dbus | 07:42 |
| Treenaks | davyd: that's the case with NM if you're not running X | 07:42 |
| mjg59 | Per-user config probably ought to have stuff in gconf | 07:42 |
| davyd | mjg59: indeed | 07:42 |
| mjg59 | But really, what you want is: | 07:42 |
| davyd | need to think of a way to do global config sanely | 07:42 |
| mjg59 | 1) a daemon that listens for events and propagates them | 07:43 |
| mjg59 | 2) a system-wide client that is small and does important stuff | 07:43 |
| mjg59 | 3) a per-user client that integrates nicely with their desktop | 07:43 |
| davyd | problem with 3 is permissions of course | 07:43 |
| === Treenaks praises mjg59 | ||
| mjg59 | Yeah. | 07:43 |
| davyd | in my current sketch | 07:44 |
| mjg59 | We need a good way of figuring out who is actually physically in front of the machine | 07:44 |
| davyd | 3 would receive dbus events from the daemon | 07:44 |
| davyd | and then send back requests | 07:44 |
| davyd | and assuming the permissions model allows it | 07:44 |
| mjg59 | Because currently, all solutions suck | 07:44 |
| davyd | will complete them | 07:44 |
| davyd | mjg59: we're too damned multi user ;) | 07:44 |
| davyd | perhaps we should just run in single user mode ;) | 07:44 |
| mjg59 | Haha | 07:45 |
| mjg59 | lindows has it easy | 07:45 |
| mjg59 | But this is a problem when it comes to things like scanner access, too | 07:45 |
| davyd | we have some terminal server clients that run in single user mode or something vaguely like it | 07:45 |
| davyd | they work nicely | 07:45 |
| mjg59 | Actually, it's not /too/ hard to figure out who's at the console | 07:45 |
| mjg59 | PAM can do that for you | 07:45 |
| davyd | mjg59: I thought there were issues with that module? | 07:45 |
| mjg59 | davyd: The issue isn't that you have no idea who's at the console at this moment in time | 07:46 |
| mjg59 | The issue is that the last person at the console potentially still has open filehandles | 07:46 |
| davyd | evil hack of the day... installing CVS gnome-applets into /opt and then convincing bonobo to use them | 07:46 |
| davyd | so Ubuntu can give me development GNOME | 07:46 |
| davyd | and I can have the bleeding edge applet-love I crave | 07:46 |
| === Treenaks prefers his edge non-bleeding | ||
| mjg59 | If the kernel had a revoke() call, this would be much easier | 07:47 |
| davyd | Treenaks: you kinda should run CVS when you're the maintainer | 07:48 |
| davyd | not that I've been much of a maintainer lately | 07:48 |
| Treenaks | davyd: that sounds like a valid reason :) | 07:49 |
| Treenaks | davyd: I'm not a maintainer though ;) | 07:49 |
| ogra_dinner | Treenaks: yet ? :) | 07:49 |
| Treenaks | ogra_dinner: not gnome upstream.. PLEASE NOT GNOME UPSTREAM | 07:50 |
| Treenaks | ;) | 07:50 |
| ogra_dinner | heh | 07:50 |
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