/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/01/13/#ubuntu-doc.txt

=== [froud] [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
hornbeckanyone around?06:57
[froud] African greetinsg08:43
=== froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
maskiemorning froud from a fellow s-african and all the best for 200509:05
froudAfrican greetings09:05
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudwhere in RSA are you09:05
maskiejust outside cape town ... northern side09:06
froudOK, Johannesburg for me, North09:06
maskieok09:07
froudI see you are on uunet09:08
froudhow's thier dsl, any good?09:08
maskiefroud: got no idea since am not using dsl --- currently using isdn ....09:10
froudHmmm, your host has been connected for ages. Your phone bill will be huge09:11
maskiei have this R7 thingy so mostly only am on at home during call-more time --- my monthly bill still lower than adsl 09:13
froudR7 thing, how does that work?09:14
maskiemax cost of a call during call-more is R7 --- ie from friday 7pm till monday 7am only cost R7 09:15
froudOh, so you're connected 24/7 over weekends only09:15
maskieyes and after 7pm in the week -- not really at home during the day so it suits me at the moment09:16
froudbut the dsl is not that expensive. For business I know my overall cost is +-R1000 including ISP and I took the dsl router over six months09:17
froudit should be less for personal09:18
maskiethink the dsl384 is around R700 including ISP ... nice thing about ISDN is no cap and no shaping 09:20
froudhe he, yes that is true. But I use 512 and only once have I ever gone over the 3GB cap.09:21
maskieso i assume you do not download big stuff ... diff between us software guys and you tech writers :)09:22
froudNot true. I have to do lots of downloading and I have to sync with cvs and svn repo's. I just keep everything updated as much possible so I dont need to do it in one go09:24
froudmostly I build from working copy of cvs or svn so that helps09:25
maskie yes it does ....09:25
froudIf I need a distro, I get a copy from one of the lugs09:25
froudok, not quite as much as developers09:26
maskieam starting to do more and more work from home so will probably get dsl in the next month or so ... can do with the increased speed 09:27
froud:-) so are you helping with the docs09:27
maskienot much... just keeping an eye on what you guys are doing ... not much of a writer ....09:28
maskiemight be getting involved in some translation work into afrikaans if there is really a need ...09:29
froudGood idea09:29
froudwhat about all 11 official languages ?09:29
maskieexcept english and afrikaans ... the rest might be a bit of a strech09:30
froudHe he :-)09:31
froudIm new to this project, so I am stil trying to find out how things work.09:32
froudI've been focused on getting the Docbook application is a stable shape09:32
froudmade a number of repository changes and made documents valid/well-formed09:33
maskiehave been using ubuntu since just after the warty release but have been mostly lurking 09:33
froudjust finishing off a make file09:33
maskieyes have seen most of them and think you did a great job ...09:33
=== froud blushes
froudany ideas for improvements09:34
maskienot at the moment ... 09:35
froudOh well, if you think of something, let me know09:35
maskiewill do ... 09:36
froudWell, I am off to the Rosebank Flee market today09:36
maskieyes and i might be off to go watch some cricket .... 09:36
froudIt's a hot, hot morning, I expect it to be an even hotter day09:36
froudcricket, who is playing09:37
=== froud outa touch
maskieat least we can go to the beach ... SA vs England at Newlands09:37
froudwell we know who will win that one :-)09:37
froudBeach, ouch09:37
froudI grew up in Durbs09:38
froudOne thing I miss is the beach09:38
maskiethat is why i love cpt ... beach and the mountain09:38
froudyou just found my soft spot :-) 09:38
froudI have never been to CT09:38
froudI left ZA about 15 years ago and only been back just over a year09:39
froudI have yet to visit09:39
maskieoh no .... great place to visit and even better place to stay ....09:39
froudthey say feb/Mar is a good time of the year09:39
froudso I plan a trip this year Mar09:40
froudbut to windy09:40
maskieyes it is ... then all the holiday visitors ha sgone back ....09:40
froudand you capies are like heeeeey duuuuuuude, chiilllll09:40
maskieyou get used to the wind ... march should not be that bad09:40
froudhope not09:41
maskiesome of us yes .... not all09:41
froudan us vallies are like "I can like to love you stukkent"09:41
froudwell b c'ing ya09:42
maskiehe he :)09:42
maskiec ya09:42
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== ChrisH [~chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== boglot [~logbot@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc
sivanghey people07:33
abelliciao07:38
ChrisHchow07:39
=== ChrisH had 7 nightmarish hours of installing Warty on his father-in-law's PC
=== froud [~sean@ndn-165-135-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudWho should actually hold copyright over the documentation?08:50
sivangfroud: the ubuntu documentation project09:14
sivangHi again people.09:14
=== sivang is here for the next 30 mins or so..
froudhi you're still marked away09:15
sivangcheck again09:15
sivangI just removed the mark09:15
froudyou sure, should it be UDP or Canonical?09:15
sivangUDP09:15
sivangIMHO,09:15
froudOK09:15
sivangmaybe we should ask jdub09:16
sivanglemme check09:16
sivangwell , no answer yet.09:25
sivangmaybe we _should_ appoint canonical with the copyright as they would be able to go to court when someone violates the licsense..09:25
sivangoppinion people?09:25
=== sivang just recalled that work you do on gnome-system-tools is best preferred to get copyright for Ximian/Novell because they are more capable at protecting code and licsense in court.
froudyes, hence my questions?09:26
froudat present it is assigned to ChrisH and Nick09:27
froudnot good IMHO09:27
froudfor the reasons you mentioned09:28
ChrisHIs it a problem of the copyright or the license? I thought the copyright holders are the writers themselves?09:28
froudIn this case the writers do not have a single legal body09:29
froudwhen I work on commercial work for a publisher09:29
ChrisHHmmm.09:29
froudand it is in a team09:30
froudthe team gives the publisher copyright09:30
froudthe rights return to the writers after X years09:30
froudnormally when the work is OOP09:30
ChrisHBut is Canonical the publisher? I understand that they could fight at court. But IMHO canonical is still the sponsor - not the boss.09:31
froudUnless the writers ban together and create a company, it becomes very difficult for them to enforce their copyright09:31
froudAs I see it Canonical is the holding company09:32
ChrisHHmmm.09:32
froudubuntu is a project of the holding company09:33
ChrisHUbuntu is a community project. Isn't it?09:34
froudDunno what we will do here. At SuSE I now use Novell Inc.09:34
froudIs it?09:34
froudreally?09:34
ChrisHSponsorship by Canonical09:34
ChrisHThe Ubuntu Project is a community project with participation from many volunteers, sponsored by Canonical Ltd.09:34
ChrisH(from the main page)09:34
ChrisHThe situation of some people getting money where others are working voluntarily is complicated enough. I don't assume many people would work for Ubuntu if it wouldn't be a 99% community thing.09:36
froudhow far does the sponsorship stretch09:36
ChrisHPhilosophical question. :) Marketing, printing CDs, getting money back for support contracts.09:37
froudChrisH, we have different views of how OSS works :-)09:37
froudyeah09:37
froudOK ChrisH r you prepared to back the copyright?09:37
froudIs Nick09:38
froudor anyone on the team?09:38
ChrisHIMHO Canonical is already far too much involved to have ubuntu really be a community project. Still its community is much better than Debian's. Although the principles in Debian are easier.09:38
froudagreed09:38
froudIf I put the UDP.... who is the UDP?09:39
froudcan a copyright be attributed to a community of loosely connected individuals?09:40
froudwho aaare those individuals?09:40
froudcan anyone just come along and say ... hey, what the hell I will under write the copyright?09:41
froudIf so then I will have one of my companies do it09:41
froudSince I am in contribution, I have copyright. As do each of the contributors09:42
froudHence the importance of the license. Which I dont think people actually have a clue about.09:44
froudThe arguments for a hybrid are pretty flimsy if you ask me09:45
froudwho is legal council here09:46
=== froud just loves the silence. Let me know when you people r serious
ChrisHWhat's that gonna mean?09:48
hornbeckfroud: what does,  Let me know when you people r serious, mean?10:13
ChrisHhornbeck: froud has stormed out10:15
hornbeckI am really tired of the in fighting10:15
hornbeck:-)10:15
hornbeckhas any real work been done on docs?10:20
hornbeckI am just curious?10:20
ChrisHI'm working on the sysadmin stuff currently. But very little seems to be done currently.10:21
hornbeckthats what I thought10:21
hornbeckman I just don't have time10:21
hornbeckwell keep up with the work your doing ChrisH, its very needed10:22
ChrisHThanks. :)10:22
hornbeckyeah, I just wish I could do more10:22
ChrisHI've started to ignore most of the chat here, all the politic talks, all the flooding on the mailing list. We seem to be talking the whole project to death.10:22
hornbeckyeah10:23
hornbeckthe time I do have it seems to be used listening to arguments10:23
ChrisHAnd although I really value what froud it doing technically he's just the dozenth details that kept everyone from writing.10:23
hornbeckI wrote some the other day but that was the first in awhile10:23
hornbeckyou have kids right?10:24
ChrisHYes, Sir.10:24
hornbeckyou work full time?10:24
=== ChrisH nods
hornbeckdo you go to school at all?10:25
hornbeckI work 40-50, have two kids/wife, and go to school full time10:25
hornbeckwhen I started with Ubuntu I did not work full time or go to school10:25
hornbeckall the sudden I have no time for dosc10:25
hornbeckdocs10:25
ChrisHNah, I've a job as a security admin guy at an online store.10:25
hornbeckI am a sysadmin for a computer firm10:26
hornbeckwe have over 200 clients that we administer10:26

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!