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hornbeck | anyone around? | 06:57 |
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[froud] | African greetinsg | 08:43 |
=== froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
maskie | morning froud from a fellow s-african and all the best for 2005 | 09:05 |
froud | African greetings | 09:05 |
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
froud | where in RSA are you | 09:05 |
maskie | just outside cape town ... northern side | 09:06 |
froud | OK, Johannesburg for me, North | 09:06 |
maskie | ok | 09:07 |
froud | I see you are on uunet | 09:08 |
froud | how's thier dsl, any good? | 09:08 |
maskie | froud: got no idea since am not using dsl --- currently using isdn .... | 09:10 |
froud | Hmmm, your host has been connected for ages. Your phone bill will be huge | 09:11 |
maskie | i have this R7 thingy so mostly only am on at home during call-more time --- my monthly bill still lower than adsl | 09:13 |
froud | R7 thing, how does that work? | 09:14 |
maskie | max cost of a call during call-more is R7 --- ie from friday 7pm till monday 7am only cost R7 | 09:15 |
froud | Oh, so you're connected 24/7 over weekends only | 09:15 |
maskie | yes and after 7pm in the week -- not really at home during the day so it suits me at the moment | 09:16 |
froud | but the dsl is not that expensive. For business I know my overall cost is +-R1000 including ISP and I took the dsl router over six months | 09:17 |
froud | it should be less for personal | 09:18 |
maskie | think the dsl384 is around R700 including ISP ... nice thing about ISDN is no cap and no shaping | 09:20 |
froud | he he, yes that is true. But I use 512 and only once have I ever gone over the 3GB cap. | 09:21 |
maskie | so i assume you do not download big stuff ... diff between us software guys and you tech writers :) | 09:22 |
froud | Not true. I have to do lots of downloading and I have to sync with cvs and svn repo's. I just keep everything updated as much possible so I dont need to do it in one go | 09:24 |
froud | mostly I build from working copy of cvs or svn so that helps | 09:25 |
maskie | yes it does .... | 09:25 |
froud | If I need a distro, I get a copy from one of the lugs | 09:25 |
froud | ok, not quite as much as developers | 09:26 |
maskie | am starting to do more and more work from home so will probably get dsl in the next month or so ... can do with the increased speed | 09:27 |
froud | :-) so are you helping with the docs | 09:27 |
maskie | not much... just keeping an eye on what you guys are doing ... not much of a writer .... | 09:28 |
maskie | might be getting involved in some translation work into afrikaans if there is really a need ... | 09:29 |
froud | Good idea | 09:29 |
froud | what about all 11 official languages ? | 09:29 |
maskie | except english and afrikaans ... the rest might be a bit of a strech | 09:30 |
froud | He he :-) | 09:31 |
froud | Im new to this project, so I am stil trying to find out how things work. | 09:32 |
froud | I've been focused on getting the Docbook application is a stable shape | 09:32 |
froud | made a number of repository changes and made documents valid/well-formed | 09:33 |
maskie | have been using ubuntu since just after the warty release but have been mostly lurking | 09:33 |
froud | just finishing off a make file | 09:33 |
maskie | yes have seen most of them and think you did a great job ... | 09:33 |
=== froud blushes | ||
froud | any ideas for improvements | 09:34 |
maskie | not at the moment ... | 09:35 |
froud | Oh well, if you think of something, let me know | 09:35 |
maskie | will do ... | 09:36 |
froud | Well, I am off to the Rosebank Flee market today | 09:36 |
maskie | yes and i might be off to go watch some cricket .... | 09:36 |
froud | It's a hot, hot morning, I expect it to be an even hotter day | 09:36 |
froud | cricket, who is playing | 09:37 |
=== froud outa touch | ||
maskie | at least we can go to the beach ... SA vs England at Newlands | 09:37 |
froud | well we know who will win that one :-) | 09:37 |
froud | Beach, ouch | 09:37 |
froud | I grew up in Durbs | 09:38 |
froud | One thing I miss is the beach | 09:38 |
maskie | that is why i love cpt ... beach and the mountain | 09:38 |
froud | you just found my soft spot :-) | 09:38 |
froud | I have never been to CT | 09:38 |
froud | I left ZA about 15 years ago and only been back just over a year | 09:39 |
froud | I have yet to visit | 09:39 |
maskie | oh no .... great place to visit and even better place to stay .... | 09:39 |
froud | they say feb/Mar is a good time of the year | 09:39 |
froud | so I plan a trip this year Mar | 09:40 |
froud | but to windy | 09:40 |
maskie | yes it is ... then all the holiday visitors ha sgone back .... | 09:40 |
froud | and you capies are like heeeeey duuuuuuude, chiilllll | 09:40 |
maskie | you get used to the wind ... march should not be that bad | 09:40 |
froud | hope not | 09:41 |
maskie | some of us yes .... not all | 09:41 |
froud | an us vallies are like "I can like to love you stukkent" | 09:41 |
froud | well b c'ing ya | 09:42 |
maskie | he he :) | 09:42 |
maskie | c ya | 09:42 |
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sivang | hey people | 07:33 |
abelli | ciao | 07:38 |
ChrisH | chow | 07:39 |
=== ChrisH had 7 nightmarish hours of installing Warty on his father-in-law's PC | ||
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froud | Who should actually hold copyright over the documentation? | 08:50 |
sivang | froud: the ubuntu documentation project | 09:14 |
sivang | Hi again people. | 09:14 |
=== sivang is here for the next 30 mins or so.. | ||
froud | hi you're still marked away | 09:15 |
sivang | check again | 09:15 |
sivang | I just removed the mark | 09:15 |
froud | you sure, should it be UDP or Canonical? | 09:15 |
sivang | UDP | 09:15 |
sivang | IMHO, | 09:15 |
froud | OK | 09:15 |
sivang | maybe we should ask jdub | 09:16 |
sivang | lemme check | 09:16 |
sivang | well , no answer yet. | 09:25 |
sivang | maybe we _should_ appoint canonical with the copyright as they would be able to go to court when someone violates the licsense.. | 09:25 |
sivang | oppinion people? | 09:25 |
=== sivang just recalled that work you do on gnome-system-tools is best preferred to get copyright for Ximian/Novell because they are more capable at protecting code and licsense in court. | ||
froud | yes, hence my questions? | 09:26 |
froud | at present it is assigned to ChrisH and Nick | 09:27 |
froud | not good IMHO | 09:27 |
froud | for the reasons you mentioned | 09:28 |
ChrisH | Is it a problem of the copyright or the license? I thought the copyright holders are the writers themselves? | 09:28 |
froud | In this case the writers do not have a single legal body | 09:29 |
froud | when I work on commercial work for a publisher | 09:29 |
ChrisH | Hmmm. | 09:29 |
froud | and it is in a team | 09:30 |
froud | the team gives the publisher copyright | 09:30 |
froud | the rights return to the writers after X years | 09:30 |
froud | normally when the work is OOP | 09:30 |
ChrisH | But is Canonical the publisher? I understand that they could fight at court. But IMHO canonical is still the sponsor - not the boss. | 09:31 |
froud | Unless the writers ban together and create a company, it becomes very difficult for them to enforce their copyright | 09:31 |
froud | As I see it Canonical is the holding company | 09:32 |
ChrisH | Hmmm. | 09:32 |
froud | ubuntu is a project of the holding company | 09:33 |
ChrisH | Ubuntu is a community project. Isn't it? | 09:34 |
froud | Dunno what we will do here. At SuSE I now use Novell Inc. | 09:34 |
froud | Is it? | 09:34 |
froud | really? | 09:34 |
ChrisH | Sponsorship by Canonical | 09:34 |
ChrisH | The Ubuntu Project is a community project with participation from many volunteers, sponsored by Canonical Ltd. | 09:34 |
ChrisH | (from the main page) | 09:34 |
ChrisH | The situation of some people getting money where others are working voluntarily is complicated enough. I don't assume many people would work for Ubuntu if it wouldn't be a 99% community thing. | 09:36 |
froud | how far does the sponsorship stretch | 09:36 |
ChrisH | Philosophical question. :) Marketing, printing CDs, getting money back for support contracts. | 09:37 |
froud | ChrisH, we have different views of how OSS works :-) | 09:37 |
froud | yeah | 09:37 |
froud | OK ChrisH r you prepared to back the copyright? | 09:37 |
froud | Is Nick | 09:38 |
froud | or anyone on the team? | 09:38 |
ChrisH | IMHO Canonical is already far too much involved to have ubuntu really be a community project. Still its community is much better than Debian's. Although the principles in Debian are easier. | 09:38 |
froud | agreed | 09:38 |
froud | If I put the UDP.... who is the UDP? | 09:39 |
froud | can a copyright be attributed to a community of loosely connected individuals? | 09:40 |
froud | who aaare those individuals? | 09:40 |
froud | can anyone just come along and say ... hey, what the hell I will under write the copyright? | 09:41 |
froud | If so then I will have one of my companies do it | 09:41 |
froud | Since I am in contribution, I have copyright. As do each of the contributors | 09:42 |
froud | Hence the importance of the license. Which I dont think people actually have a clue about. | 09:44 |
froud | The arguments for a hybrid are pretty flimsy if you ask me | 09:45 |
froud | who is legal council here | 09:46 |
=== froud just loves the silence. Let me know when you people r serious | ||
ChrisH | What's that gonna mean? | 09:48 |
hornbeck | froud: what does, Let me know when you people r serious, mean? | 10:13 |
ChrisH | hornbeck: froud has stormed out | 10:15 |
hornbeck | I am really tired of the in fighting | 10:15 |
hornbeck | :-) | 10:15 |
hornbeck | has any real work been done on docs? | 10:20 |
hornbeck | I am just curious? | 10:20 |
ChrisH | I'm working on the sysadmin stuff currently. But very little seems to be done currently. | 10:21 |
hornbeck | thats what I thought | 10:21 |
hornbeck | man I just don't have time | 10:21 |
hornbeck | well keep up with the work your doing ChrisH, its very needed | 10:22 |
ChrisH | Thanks. :) | 10:22 |
hornbeck | yeah, I just wish I could do more | 10:22 |
ChrisH | I've started to ignore most of the chat here, all the politic talks, all the flooding on the mailing list. We seem to be talking the whole project to death. | 10:22 |
hornbeck | yeah | 10:23 |
hornbeck | the time I do have it seems to be used listening to arguments | 10:23 |
ChrisH | And although I really value what froud it doing technically he's just the dozenth details that kept everyone from writing. | 10:23 |
hornbeck | I wrote some the other day but that was the first in awhile | 10:23 |
hornbeck | you have kids right? | 10:24 |
ChrisH | Yes, Sir. | 10:24 |
hornbeck | you work full time? | 10:24 |
=== ChrisH nods | ||
hornbeck | do you go to school at all? | 10:25 |
hornbeck | I work 40-50, have two kids/wife, and go to school full time | 10:25 |
hornbeck | when I started with Ubuntu I did not work full time or go to school | 10:25 |
hornbeck | all the sudden I have no time for dosc | 10:25 |
hornbeck | docs | 10:25 |
ChrisH | Nah, I've a job as a security admin guy at an online store. | 10:25 |
hornbeck | I am a sysadmin for a computer firm | 10:26 |
hornbeck | we have over 200 clients that we administer | 10:26 |
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