=== [froud] [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:57] anyone around? [08:43] <[froud] > African greetinsg === froud [~sean@ndn-165-159-61.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:05] morning froud from a fellow s-african and all the best for 2005 [09:05] African greetings === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:05] where in RSA are you [09:06] just outside cape town ... northern side [09:06] OK, Johannesburg for me, North [09:07] ok [09:08] I see you are on uunet [09:08] how's thier dsl, any good? [09:10] froud: got no idea since am not using dsl --- currently using isdn .... [09:11] Hmmm, your host has been connected for ages. Your phone bill will be huge [09:13] i have this R7 thingy so mostly only am on at home during call-more time --- my monthly bill still lower than adsl [09:14] R7 thing, how does that work? [09:15] max cost of a call during call-more is R7 --- ie from friday 7pm till monday 7am only cost R7 [09:15] Oh, so you're connected 24/7 over weekends only [09:16] yes and after 7pm in the week -- not really at home during the day so it suits me at the moment [09:17] but the dsl is not that expensive. For business I know my overall cost is +-R1000 including ISP and I took the dsl router over six months [09:18] it should be less for personal [09:20] think the dsl384 is around R700 including ISP ... nice thing about ISDN is no cap and no shaping [09:21] he he, yes that is true. But I use 512 and only once have I ever gone over the 3GB cap. [09:22] so i assume you do not download big stuff ... diff between us software guys and you tech writers :) [09:24] Not true. I have to do lots of downloading and I have to sync with cvs and svn repo's. I just keep everything updated as much possible so I dont need to do it in one go [09:25] mostly I build from working copy of cvs or svn so that helps [09:25] yes it does .... [09:25] If I need a distro, I get a copy from one of the lugs [09:26] ok, not quite as much as developers [09:27] am starting to do more and more work from home so will probably get dsl in the next month or so ... can do with the increased speed [09:27] :-) so are you helping with the docs [09:28] not much... just keeping an eye on what you guys are doing ... not much of a writer .... [09:29] might be getting involved in some translation work into afrikaans if there is really a need ... [09:29] Good idea [09:29] what about all 11 official languages ? [09:30] except english and afrikaans ... the rest might be a bit of a strech [09:31] He he :-) [09:32] Im new to this project, so I am stil trying to find out how things work. [09:32] I've been focused on getting the Docbook application is a stable shape [09:33] made a number of repository changes and made documents valid/well-formed [09:33] have been using ubuntu since just after the warty release but have been mostly lurking [09:33] just finishing off a make file [09:33] yes have seen most of them and think you did a great job ... === froud blushes [09:34] any ideas for improvements [09:35] not at the moment ... [09:35] Oh well, if you think of something, let me know [09:36] will do ... [09:36] Well, I am off to the Rosebank Flee market today [09:36] yes and i might be off to go watch some cricket .... [09:36] It's a hot, hot morning, I expect it to be an even hotter day [09:37] cricket, who is playing === froud outa touch [09:37] at least we can go to the beach ... SA vs England at Newlands [09:37] well we know who will win that one :-) [09:37] Beach, ouch [09:38] I grew up in Durbs [09:38] One thing I miss is the beach [09:38] that is why i love cpt ... beach and the mountain [09:38] you just found my soft spot :-) [09:38] I have never been to CT [09:39] I left ZA about 15 years ago and only been back just over a year [09:39] I have yet to visit [09:39] oh no .... great place to visit and even better place to stay .... [09:39] they say feb/Mar is a good time of the year [09:40] so I plan a trip this year Mar [09:40] but to windy [09:40] yes it is ... then all the holiday visitors ha sgone back .... [09:40] and you capies are like heeeeey duuuuuuude, chiilllll [09:40] you get used to the wind ... march should not be that bad [09:41] hope not [09:41] some of us yes .... not all [09:41] an us vallies are like "I can like to love you stukkent" [09:42] well b c'ing ya [09:42] he he :) [09:42] c ya === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ChrisH [~chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === boglot [~logbot@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:33] hey people [07:38] ciao [07:39] chow === ChrisH had 7 nightmarish hours of installing Warty on his father-in-law's PC === froud [~sean@ndn-165-135-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:50] Who should actually hold copyright over the documentation? [09:14] froud: the ubuntu documentation project [09:14] Hi again people. === sivang is here for the next 30 mins or so.. [09:15] hi you're still marked away [09:15] check again [09:15] I just removed the mark [09:15] you sure, should it be UDP or Canonical? [09:15] UDP [09:15] IMHO, [09:15] OK [09:16] maybe we should ask jdub [09:16] lemme check [09:25] well , no answer yet. [09:25] maybe we _should_ appoint canonical with the copyright as they would be able to go to court when someone violates the licsense.. [09:25] oppinion people? === sivang just recalled that work you do on gnome-system-tools is best preferred to get copyright for Ximian/Novell because they are more capable at protecting code and licsense in court. [09:26] yes, hence my questions? [09:27] at present it is assigned to ChrisH and Nick [09:27] not good IMHO [09:28] for the reasons you mentioned [09:28] Is it a problem of the copyright or the license? I thought the copyright holders are the writers themselves? [09:29] In this case the writers do not have a single legal body [09:29] when I work on commercial work for a publisher [09:29] Hmmm. [09:30] and it is in a team [09:30] the team gives the publisher copyright [09:30] the rights return to the writers after X years [09:30] normally when the work is OOP [09:31] But is Canonical the publisher? I understand that they could fight at court. But IMHO canonical is still the sponsor - not the boss. [09:31] Unless the writers ban together and create a company, it becomes very difficult for them to enforce their copyright [09:32] As I see it Canonical is the holding company [09:32] Hmmm. [09:33] ubuntu is a project of the holding company [09:34] Ubuntu is a community project. Isn't it? [09:34] Dunno what we will do here. At SuSE I now use Novell Inc. [09:34] Is it? [09:34] really? [09:34] Sponsorship by Canonical [09:34] The Ubuntu Project is a community project with participation from many volunteers, sponsored by Canonical Ltd. [09:34] (from the main page) [09:36] The situation of some people getting money where others are working voluntarily is complicated enough. I don't assume many people would work for Ubuntu if it wouldn't be a 99% community thing. [09:36] how far does the sponsorship stretch [09:37] Philosophical question. :) Marketing, printing CDs, getting money back for support contracts. [09:37] ChrisH, we have different views of how OSS works :-) [09:37] yeah [09:37] OK ChrisH r you prepared to back the copyright? [09:38] Is Nick [09:38] or anyone on the team? [09:38] IMHO Canonical is already far too much involved to have ubuntu really be a community project. Still its community is much better than Debian's. Although the principles in Debian are easier. [09:38] agreed [09:39] If I put the UDP.... who is the UDP? [09:40] can a copyright be attributed to a community of loosely connected individuals? [09:40] who aaare those individuals? [09:41] can anyone just come along and say ... hey, what the hell I will under write the copyright? [09:41] If so then I will have one of my companies do it [09:42] Since I am in contribution, I have copyright. As do each of the contributors [09:44] Hence the importance of the license. Which I dont think people actually have a clue about. [09:45] The arguments for a hybrid are pretty flimsy if you ask me [09:46] who is legal council here === froud just loves the silence. Let me know when you people r serious [09:48] What's that gonna mean? [10:13] froud: what does, Let me know when you people r serious, mean? [10:15] hornbeck: froud has stormed out [10:15] I am really tired of the in fighting [10:15] :-) [10:20] has any real work been done on docs? [10:20] I am just curious? [10:21] I'm working on the sysadmin stuff currently. But very little seems to be done currently. [10:21] thats what I thought [10:21] man I just don't have time [10:22] well keep up with the work your doing ChrisH, its very needed [10:22] Thanks. :) [10:22] yeah, I just wish I could do more [10:22] I've started to ignore most of the chat here, all the politic talks, all the flooding on the mailing list. We seem to be talking the whole project to death. [10:23] yeah [10:23] the time I do have it seems to be used listening to arguments [10:23] And although I really value what froud it doing technically he's just the dozenth details that kept everyone from writing. [10:23] I wrote some the other day but that was the first in awhile [10:24] you have kids right? [10:24] Yes, Sir. [10:24] you work full time? === ChrisH nods [10:25] do you go to school at all? [10:25] I work 40-50, have two kids/wife, and go to school full time [10:25] when I started with Ubuntu I did not work full time or go to school [10:25] all the sudden I have no time for dosc [10:25] docs [10:25] Nah, I've a job as a security admin guy at an online store. [10:26] I am a sysadmin for a computer firm [10:26] we have over 200 clients that we administer