=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@218.111.208.176] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:42] hello jiyuu0! [03:42] enrico, yes === froud [~sean@ndn-165-135-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0|work [~jiyuu0@218.111.208.176] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ChrisH [~chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === plovs [~plovs@62.84.21.44] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:49] morning all [10:49] morning [10:51] froud: hi, don't think we have met before [10:52] no, heard lots about you. All good :-) [10:52] that's nice to hear :-) [10:53] how long you've been using linux / ubuntu ? [10:53] a week [10:53] been using Linux for 3 or 4 years [10:53] mostly work on SuSE [10:54] what do you think of ubuntu? [10:54] now trying Ubuntu [10:54] not as stable as would like, but good for the version it is at [10:54] want KDE though [10:54] not a GNOME fan [10:54] kde is coming [10:54] so I read [10:55] makes me happy [10:55] hope all my changes in svn have not unset you [10:55] i met the kde guys, dedicated to the cause of kde [10:55] which ones are that? the only ones i did not like where a couple of , nothing big [10:56] under what name did you commit? froud? [10:56] structure is new and the application level work different [10:56] sean.wheller [10:57] more small changes today [10:57] ah, ok so that's you :-) [10:57] do svn up [10:57] did that already, looks good [10:57] cool, now its just a caase of keeping it valid [10:57] :-) [10:58] added new legalnotice, feedback, disclaimer this morn [10:58] oh and Typographical Conventions [10:58] ah, should check those out [10:59] So far legal notice is just Creative Commons [10:59] but I understand there will be a hybrid [10:59] so it is bound to change [11:00] what did you use suse for, coding? [11:00] yes this is my main box [11:01] you consider suse more stable then ubuntu? [11:01] Hmmm, loaded question. IMHO yes [11:02] just curious, i have only used -bsd, debian and redhat, for real [11:03] redhat got me so upset with rpm that i never even tried suse [11:03] YaST does the job of rpm's much better [11:04] the yast sshots look nice, especially on the latest novell incarnation of suse [11:04] lots of tools nicely together [11:04] Yes kinda replaces Linuxconf or webmin [11:04] runs will as gui and ncurses [11:05] at least I dont need linuxconf or webmin to admin a workstation [11:05] I have not tried it under the Novell Zenworks though [11:05] they say it is very good [11:06] zenworks is for usermanagement etc right, like active directory? [11:06] yes, central management [11:07] active dir is one part [11:07] anyway, just to let you know that the base of the docs docbook app is now stable. I am now starting to focus on adding content [11:08] what are you planning on doing? [11:08] there are still many issues to figure out with the team, things like license, copyright etc. [11:08] I will focus on Quick Guide at first [11:08] I understand that is P1 [11:09] yes, the catch with it is that there is another version besides the one in the repo [11:10] ouch, this is one of those other problems I have not mentioned [11:10] I really want to get started but things keep coming out of the woodwork [11:10] ah, i have been offline for a couple of days and hoped everything would be solved by now [11:11] I dont want to waste my time so for now I will focus on moving the content in userguide/old into the docs [11:11] i postponed working on quickguide until that stuff is sorted out, i worked on the faqguide only [11:11] if you want you are free to look at that ass well, just keep me in the loop [11:11] planning and preparation is lacking IMHO. We need to resolve all these issues [11:11] look and touch i mean :-) [11:12] agreed [11:12] sure will, from time-to-time I will add to it [11:13] btw, I am using bugzilla and have asked others to do the same [11:13] its the only way to keep track of what's potting [11:13] it would also save me loads of time if people could validate their docs before commit [11:14] do you know how to validate? [11:14] no, enlighten me [11:14] ok cd to trunk/ [11:14] then do [11:14] xmllint --noout --xinclude --postvalid quickguide/quickguide.xml [11:14] or [11:14] xmllint --noout --xinclude --postvalid quickguide/quickguide.xml [11:14] opps [11:15] xmllint --noout --xinclude --postvalid userguide/usersguide.xml [11:15] or [11:15] xmllint --noout --xinclude --postvalid faqguide/faq2.xml [11:15] if there are validation problems xmllint will shout [11:15] if not it exits silently [11:17] ok, installing xmllint [11:17] It should be installed with xsltproc [11:17] libxslt I think [11:17] ibxml2-utils [11:17] ok [11:18] and it says: I/O warning : failed to load external entity "faqguide/faq2.xml" [11:18] what file did you run it on [11:19] duh, my fault, should have added trunk [11:19] yes we have trunk, branches an dtags now [11:19] brb [11:20] you can test xmllint by inducing an error and seeing the result === froud also suggests plovs trys the make file [11:21] do make faq to build the faq guide [11:21] html output will be in /trunk/ubuntu-docs [11:24] Document trunk/faqguide/faq2.xml does not validate [11:24] that is not good i suppose [11:25] i'll pipe the output so i can actually read it [11:25] you modified Add-OnApplications.xml [11:26] yes, and a couple of others as well [11:26] did you commit the others [11:28] yes, committed all, it does not show with svn log though [11:29] Hmm I only see one update [11:29] ok look at this problem for example [11:29] File Browser: System Tools [11:29] File Menu -> Create Launcher [11:29] Basic Tab -> [11:29] Name: Firestarter Firewall Tool [11:29] Command: gksudo /usr/sbin/firestarter [11:29] Icon: /usr/share/pixmaps/firestarter.png [11:29] [11:29] [11:29] oopop [11:30] [11:30] File Browser: System Tools [11:30] [11:30] File Menu -> Create Launcher [11:30] Basic Tab -> [11:30] Name: Firestarter Firewall Tool [11:30] Command: gksudo /usr/sbin/firestarter [11:30] Icon: /usr/share/pixmaps/firestarter.png [11:30] [11:30] [11:30] To fix it needs [11:30] File Browser: System Tools [11:30] ok I have your other commits [11:31] ok, what is wrong? [11:32] File Browser: System Tools ? [11:32] You have forgotten to surround File Browser: System Tools in para so the parser ssees CDATA [11:32] File ... not in a tag? [11:32] yes surround in [11:32] then have [11:32] :-) [11:33] i have quite a few off those... [11:33] Yes :-) [11:33] riiight, back to the trenches [11:33] ok [11:33] also see /chapter[1] /sect1[2] /orderedlist[1] /listitem[4] /para[1] /menuchoice[1] - moreinfo="none" Add-OnApplications.xml file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu-docs/faq/trunk/faqguide/faqs/Add-OnApplications.xml 50:0 [11:34] see the use of menuchoice [11:35] Ideally I would like to get all menus described as such [11:35] and then use them as entities [11:35] that way if they change in the future we can easily update them [11:36] in a single place [11:37] hmm, that is not cleart to me... what does this do? (opening it yelp, right now) [11:37] Docbook will automatically add > between menus etc [11:38] agreed, looks nicer, how can we centrelize this? [11:38] We need to define all menus [11:39] as common objects [11:39] in /common/ ? [11:39] see common/ [11:39] yep [11:39] then add the menu to libs/global.ent [11:39] this is good since the menus change for hoary [11:40] then reference to it using entity &menu-someitem-selection; [11:40] yes [11:40] If you just create your docs valid [11:40] this is good stuff :-) [11:40] I will go through and move your menus to common [11:40] that way you will have a sample to go by [11:41] and i'll repair the missing [11:41] yes, just make your docs valid [11:41] the menus I will do for you [11:41] will do [11:41] and thanks [11:41] the advantage here is that people on other books can use the same entities [11:41] so if we all stick to referencing the menus as entities [11:42] then we can have a global change [11:42] for hoary [11:42] across all documents [11:42] super [11:42] Look at the DocType Decl [11:42] "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd" [ [11:42] [11:42] %xinclude; [11:42] [11:42] %globalent; [11:43] ] > [11:43] each document defines this [11:43] and has the entities external [11:43] in [11:43] btw what is better or outside the para? [11:43] screen is valid under [11:44] so do [11:44] [11:44] ... [11:44] .... [11:44] [11:45] ok [11:45] well goodluck, if you have questions let me know [11:46] btw each of your documents can now be validated as stand-alone [11:46] you may get errors if there are xrefs etc external to the document [11:46] just commnet them [11:46] thanks, this will keep me busy for a while [11:46] this way you can validate on a per document basis [11:47] makes it easier to find problems [11:47] :-) [11:47] time saver [11:47] enjoy [11:47] c ya [11:47] ;-) [12:11] plovs, do svn update and take a look under /common/menus/ [12:11] also see the new menus section in /libs/global.ent [12:12] then see === froud [~sean@ndn-165-135-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:14] then see [12:15] Add-OnApplications.xml 50:0 /chapter[1] /sect1[2] /orderedlist[1] /listitem[4] /para[1] /menuchoice[1] [12:15] for a working example === abelli [~abelli@84.222.38.206] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:17] ciao a tutti [12:20] hello [01:05] plovs, Add-OnApplications.xml all menus are added [01:12] froud: thanks, looking [01:16] plovs, which planner did you mean to reference? [01:16] froud: just the app planner [01:17] plovs, GNOME planner ? [01:18] froud: would it be wise to use macro's like these for other things as well? like the General notes etc, it would make the individual items much shorter [01:18] froud: yes [01:18] it's called planner afaik we might add GNOME to make it more clear [01:18] plovs, yes, in some cases. However, we must not overdo the ents thing as it will slow down stuff in yelp [01:18] OK [01:19] but what is the menu entry? [01:19] let me install it, brb [01:19] If you use a text over and again, then it makes sense to have it in one place and reuse it === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:20] the origianl writer of the faq used one line in every single item [01:20] Hello! [01:20] enrico, hello [01:20] plovs, what do you mean? [01:20] enrico: hi! [01:20] plovs: hey there! How're you doing? [01:20] example [01:21] enrico: great, back to do stuff [01:21] froud: it's called route planner [01:21] enrico, plovs and I are just hacking some new stuf [01:21] plovs: SO GOOD! [01:21] you have yelp? [01:21] enrico: yes [01:22] just look, every item starts with: see general notes [01:23] enrico: if froud won't make me redo the whole thing then the faqguide should be done this week [01:23] yes, but where is this section in the documents, I dont see it in the repos [01:23] [01:23] Read General Notes [01:23] [01:24] like this in every item [01:24] plovs: Wow! [01:24] this might be replace with &disclaimer; or whatever, do i understand that right? [01:24] froud: please don't make plovs redo the whole thing :) [01:25] and then later we might decide to replace the whole thing, with something else in one step [01:25] enrico: froud explained how to validate xml === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.215.152] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:26] enrico: i just used yelp, if it doesn't crash, then it's ok, but validating is better [01:26] plovs, route planner is added [01:26] svn up [01:26] plovs: oh, yes. At least one spots mistakes early on [01:26] route planner? [01:27] plovs, what is the text for General Notes [01:28] hold your hats! [01:28] This is an Unofficial Ubuntu 4.10 Starter Guide. It is not associated with Ubuntu and Canonical Ltd.Guide is tested on a full installation of Ubuntu 4.10 (Warty Warthog)If you see "$", means you have to execute the command in Terminal mode (Applications -> System Tools -> Terminal)"sudo" means superuser do. "sudo" will prompt for "Password:". Please specify your user passwordIf you are tired of typing "sudo" all the time, switch to root user by issuing "sudo [01:29] this is linked on every item, now it is three lines, if we could use one that would be nice but if it slows down yelp for every item then it might be too expensive [01:30] enrico: routeplanner is a link to the menu entry, so we have all the menu entries in one place [01:32] plovs, yes linked in one place is good. I will add a common object and include it in the beginning of the doc [01:32] plovs, is that the complete text [01:32] is there are version of it on the web [01:33] froud: that text is not shown, it is linked [01:33] yes [01:33] need to add it at begin of FAQ? [01:33] right? [01:33] froud: see: http://ubuntuguide.org/ [01:34] also text "Unofficial Ubuntu 4.10 Starter Guide" should this not be "Unofficial Ubuntu &faqguide-rev; FAQ Guide" ?? [01:35] or is it official? [01:35] froud: this is the original, i port it to docbook, then everybody can take a look at it then it will be official [01:35] then we can make a new html version [01:36] jiyuu0 is the guy who actually assambled it [01:37] it would be nice if the html version we make would look like this (at least one version) [01:37] plovs, the makefile target faq will make a html version [01:38] we will need to do some small changes to get it looking exactly the same [01:38] perhaps some CSS and XSL custom layer work [01:39] plovs: sorry to distract you with a quick question: did you get the "About Ubuntu" page from somewhere, or that work has not been done yet? If not, I'll take care of it, and I can get the page, convert it to DocBook and put it in the repository [01:39] froud: that can be done later, afaik [01:39] enrico: i haven't done a thing about it yet, sorry, so please do [01:39] perhaps we should have done this using the docbook faq style [01:40] plovs: no problem, I just wanted to check to avoid stomping on your feet. I'll take care of it. [01:41] plovs, looks like the original was done in Docbook FAQ [01:41] plovs, dont worry about it now, I can port it later [01:44] froud: why are there external references? I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd [01:44] enrico: ok [01:45] do you have docbook 4.3 installed [01:45] if not it will load it from the network [01:45] this could cause problems if you have a slow connection [01:46] should only happen when you run the makefile [01:46] is this waht you did? [01:47] no i used yelp on faq2.xml [01:47] yes yelp will also call for docbook 4.3 [01:47] if connection is slow it woont be able to load all the docbook entities [01:48] yelp loads the DTD and its entities but does not validate against it [01:48] froud: yes i have docbook installed, but "normal" users might not have it, external references are bad imho [01:48] which version do you have [01:48] 4.3-ubuntu-2 [01:48] 4.3-1ubuntu2 [01:49] should work, do you have a working catalog [01:49] unbuntu does not do nice things with catalogs [01:49] This problem can happen no matter what version of docbook we use [01:49] it is defined in the DocType Decl [01:50] can't we just bundle everything we need without external stuff? [01:50] this is basic help stuff after all [01:50] the distro should ship with and install docbook and a working catalog [01:51] most distros do [01:51] ok, didn't know that [01:51] we have a few of these problems to overcome [01:52] froud: it may be that we're doing something wrong. Debian Sid installs DocBook 4.3, should have catalogs ok, but still make looks for things in the oasis website [01:52] Unfortunately, I don't know about the DocBook toolchain enough to debug it. I can ask Mako when he wakes up [01:52] actually its xsltproc [01:53] when xsltproc parses the document it reads the DocType Decl of the doc [01:54] it should search fro XML_CATALOG_FILES in the env [01:54] and use that to find your catalog [01:54] if this is not done, then xsltproc is not fully installed [01:54] properly [01:55] And the catalog files should point to existing local things? [01:55] one more parse error i get is: Add-OnApplications.xml:736: element link: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "Repositories" [01:55] lot's of them [01:56] did you svn up [01:56] If I do "XML_CATALOG_FILES=/usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/catalog.xml make ug", it works fine [01:56] yes it will [01:57] without that env var, it looks for the oasis website. [01:57] froud: svn is up-to-date [01:57] the error above is looking for an element with the id="Repositories" [01:57] If you validate the file only it will error [01:57] ah, ok [01:57] if you validate the faq2.xml it should not be a problem [01:58] to temp resolve this comment your xrefs [01:58] i am validating the whole thing now [01:58] i need a faster computer [01:58] dont we all [01:59] it takes more then the blink of an eye, i hate that [01:59] many blinks even [01:59] heh heh [01:59] feels like gentoo [02:01] froud: do you know why does not line up with the numbers in ? [02:02] Will have to take a look [02:02] ok [02:04] he, it validated i think, wow [02:05] cool no errors is good [02:05] :-) [02:06] did you commit [02:07] ok [02:07] yep its valid ..... yahoo! [02:10] plovs, cool great work [02:10] mako: ding === warthylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://irclog.workaround.org | This channel tries to follow the tradition of the #gnome-love channel on irc.gimp.net, all new comers and questions are welcomed, as long as you follow the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first. === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by sivang at Sat Jan 1 20:48:30 2005 [02:11] (froud/#ubuntu-doc) plovs, I have just done commit of general notes for you. It's common/general-notes.xml [02:13] froud: ok, reading [02:15] plovs, ok all refs to it have been uncommented [02:16] froud, r u converting ubuntuguide.org into xml? [02:17] jiyuu0: yes, 2/3 is done [02:17] jiyuu0, no plovs is I think [02:17] plovs, cool :) can i have a peep [02:17] jiyuu0: starting to look really good [02:17] sure, you have subversion installed? [02:17] plovs, there is a bug in yelp [02:18] yes i have [02:18] froud: i'm sure there is [02:18] what's the command to sync? [02:18] it does not know what to do with the preface [02:18] svn up [02:18] jiyuu0: svn checkout http://69.155.172.150/faq [02:18] do you have a working copy already === jiyuu0 checkin... [02:18] jiyuu0: svn up to sync yor existing dir [02:19] i think i wipe the whole account off previously [02:19] so din back the old dir up [02:20] jiyuu0, do svn checkout http://69.155.172.150/faq/trunk udp-docs === jiyuu0 doing... [02:20] this will create the dir udp-docs and checkout a working copy [02:21] plovs, can read the General Notes under Yelp [02:21] yet I can read the Conventions [02:21] strange cause they are both in the preface [02:23] plovs, looks good [02:23] froud: general notes seems to have gone the way of windows3.1... [02:24] jiyuu0: i think it's great, i use your guide al the time [02:24] and in yelp on install it would be even better [02:25] what tool do you use to write the xml? [02:27] jiyuu0: vim [02:27] wow... serious... [02:27] i use gedit [02:27] and xmllint and froud, great tools [02:28] jiyuu0: and with some work we can make an updated html like yours, straight from the xml-source [02:28] but will the format run? [02:29] so we have one source for yelp, html and pdf [02:29] jiyuu0: run where? [02:29] plovs, but first we must port to docbook FAQ format [02:29] :-) [02:29] i mean the layout? how will it look on html? [02:29] a got couple of emails requesting for pdf === plovs in a soft voice: what is that docbook faq? [02:30] jiyuu0: let me check [02:31] :) === plovs is building the user guide === jiyuu0 heading for dinner... brb === froud whispers to plovs http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/QandASetsHTML.html [02:37] froud: will that work? i should try it on one of the smaller ones [02:38] works like magic === enrico is psyched and can't wait to make an IRC report tomorrow! === froud likes enrico 's irc reports [02:43] check the samba-stuff third entry, looks like crap, i did something wrong [02:45] plovs, : no faq is a document type [02:46] elp does not know what to do with it like this [02:46] We will need to text Docbook FAQ Document Types in Yelp [02:47] ah, is it a lot of work to make an example doc? [02:47] froud: btw i like the conventions [02:48] cool [02:49] plovs, do svn up and test the faq again [02:49] I moved the general notes and conventions etc to a new chapter [02:49] called Introduction [02:49] this avoids the bugs yelp has with preface [02:50] yes, just did, nice === plovs especially likes the "test" in General :-) === froud is sad [02:53] yelp does not know what to do with FAQ format [02:53] plovs, I guess we will stay with the current method [02:54] froud: too bad, but hoary has an updated yelp, so don't loose all hope yet [02:55] 2.9 [02:55] take this file and test it you like [02:56] plovs, do you want it [02:56] froud: oh, just wait, i don't remember how to except dcc in irssi, just a sec [02:57] ok, got it [02:58] take it [02:58]