[07:38] <plovs> morning!
[07:51] <froud> African greetings
[08:30] <plovs> froud: morning, i have a spare minute and am looking at the menu-stuff, where are the menu items defined?
[08:31] <plovs> you told yesterday, but my registers gor reset over night
[08:33] <plovs> froud: never mind got it
[09:22] <froud> Will sounder still be used in the future?
[09:47] <plovs> froud: sorry no idea, better ask on #ubuntu-devel
[09:47] <froud> you ok with the menus now?
[09:54] <plovs> froud: yeah, works quite nice
[09:55] <froud> Good, Hope to save loads of time at Hoary and on translations
[09:58] <froud> plovs, seems sounder will be used, but it is called Array
[09:58] <froud> So I will update
[10:17] <plovs> how can i see with svn what changes have been made svn log does not show changed files
[10:19] <froud> plovs, try svn log --verbose trunk 
[10:20] <froud> plovs, this is why I want a mail list
[10:20] <froud> for commit
[10:20] <froud> we can impliment post-commit template to send messages
[10:22] <froud> plovs, do you use the cli?
[10:22] <froud> if you want GUI try http://esvn.umputun.com/
[10:23] <plovs> froud: i use cli atm
[10:23] <plovs> just wondered if there is a command like svn log with more output
[10:24] <froud> :-) --verbose
[10:24] <froud> If you want a deb for esvn lok here http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/esvn.html
[10:27] <plovs> verbose does the trick
[10:28] <froud> :-) good
[10:28] <froud> now you can wade through my sea of patches
[10:28] <froud> :-)
[10:37] <plovs> yes, now this is nice
[10:38] <froud> Yes, di dyou know you can also switch between revisions
[10:39] <froud> you can also switch between revisions in the branches (we donthave any yet) and the trunk
[10:40] <plovs> when i finish this doc, then we should open a branch for hoary-faqguide
[10:40] <froud> You can also merge between branches and trunk. Its cool for when you want to branch but dont want trunk to move to far away from your branch.
[10:42] <froud> sure, shouldn't we be working on hoary in the trunk?
[10:42] <froud> I mean warty is gone
[10:43] <froud> I would only do a branch in the use case where I need to make intrusive changes to the current version that could hamper other people in the trunk
[10:44] <froud> but perhaps you have a reason
[10:44] <plovs> well, this is the warty version, i have not updated anything to hoary yet, but we should release hoary
[10:45] <plovs> so we might update this as well
[10:45] <froud> Yes, the problem is that we did not do XML for warty, so what we are doing is Hoary
[10:45] <plovs> no, i would like to keep this for jiyuu0 so we can give him an updated html version of changes
[10:45] <froud> you want to tag
[10:46] <plovs> i do? (i am a complete versioning noob, but eager to learn)
[10:46] <froud> tag is a version release preserved forever
[10:46] <froud> branches eventually merge back to trnk
[10:47] <froud> trunk
[10:47] <froud> BTW we do not commit HTML PDF etc to the repos
[10:47] <plovs> so then yes, i would like to end up with one hoary faqguide, as up-to-date as possible, one warty ... etc
[10:48] <plovs> no, we should export PDF html
[10:48] <plovs> and just keep the xml
[10:48] <plovs> that's what the makefile is for
[10:48] <plovs> i suppose
[10:48] <froud> No HTMl and PDF are good
[10:48] <froud> presentational formats just nver reside in the src
[10:49] <froud> we generate them from the src
[10:49] <froud> The nice part is that Yelp reads the src
[10:50] <froud> Let me know when you want to tag and I will make a tag for the faqguide
[10:51] <froud> if you want to browse
[10:51] <froud> the repos
[10:51] <froud> svn list http://69.155.172.150/faq --recursive --verbose
[10:52] <plovs> what we should do is having a seperate brach for hoary, but all the updates to the warty changes should go to hoary as well, but the hoary changes should not go to the warty version
[10:52] <froud> yes we can make a branch
[10:52] <froud> people can still checkout the branch
[10:52] <plovs> but do i have to manually edit both versions?
[10:53] <froud> you merge between them
[10:53] <plovs> cool, this svn stuff
[10:53] <froud> I suggest you read this book as a reference
[10:53] <froud> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
[10:54] <froud> before trying any of the stuff we are talking about
[10:54] <froud> It gives example uses cases
[10:55] <froud> that will make it easier for you to understand the relationship between tags, branches and trunk
[10:55] <froud> and how to manage them
[10:57] <plovs> i'll try it, asap
[10:58] <froud> Ok just remember your revision mumber so we can role back if there are problems
[11:01] <plovs> ok, but first i need to finish this version, then we need the makfiles, then we can think about branching
[11:01] <froud> The makefiles are done
[11:02] <froud> or is there more to add
[11:03] <froud> take a look at trunk/Makefile
[11:04] <plovs> it would be nice to be able to make seperate things (html,pdf) for seperate docs (user/quick/faq) with commands: make faq_html etc
[11:05] <froud> at present we only have html.
[11:05] <froud> you can do make faq
[11:05] <froud> and it will build just the FAQ Guide
[11:05] <froud> same with User Guide do make ug
[11:05] <froud> and Quick Guide make ug
[11:05] <froud> or you can build all in one operation make all
[11:06] <froud> Gotta go out for a minute
[11:06] <plovs> ok, trying :-)
[11:16] <froud> back
[11:18] <froud> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "common/menus/login-screen-setup.xml"
[11:18] <froud> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "common/menus/users-groups.xml"
[11:18] <froud> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "common/menus/users-groups.xml"
[11:18] <froud> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "common/menus/login-screen-setup.xml
[11:19] <froud> plovs,  you need to commit these files
[11:21] <plovs> ok, just a sec
[11:22] <plovs> froud: my svn thinks i did already
[11:22] <plovs> because my commit didn't go it clashed with sometething you did i suppose
[11:23] <plovs> ah no, sorry svn add it was, brb
[11:24] <plovs> ok, added
[11:27] <froud> faqguide/faq2.xml:50: element listitem: validity error : Element listitem content does not follow the DTD,
[11:28] <plovs> looking ...
[11:29] <froud> plovs, why
[11:29] <froud> ---Makefile(revision282) 
[11:29] <froud> +++Makefile(workingcopy) 
[11:29] <froud> @@-100,7+100,7@@
[11:29] <froud> @echo"BuildingtheUbuntuFAQ..."
[11:29] <froud> mkdir-p$(FAQBASE)
[11:29] <froud> 
[11:29] <froud> -xsltproc--xinclude--stringparambase.dir$(FAQBASE)$(HTMLXSL)faqguide/faq2.xml 
[11:29] <froud> +xsltproc--xinclude--stringparambase.dir$(FAQBASE)$(HTMLXSL)userguide/usersguide.xml 
[11:30] <froud> why change the faq target to use userguide
[11:30] <plovs> it should build the faq not the userguide
[11:30] <plovs> i changed it the other way around
[11:30] <froud> ok cool I see now
[11:30] <plovs> i can't find the error faqguide/faq2.xml:50: element listitem: validity error 
[11:30] <plovs> validating now...
[11:32] <froud> ok the first problem is in UserAdministration..xml
[11:32] <plovs> the html looks quite nice, but i think jiyuu0 original looks (partly) better
[11:33] <froud> line 50 , should be <listitem> <para> &login-screen-setup;
[11:33] <plovs> ah, yes, and i have several of those (again)
[11:33] <froud> menuchoice is not a child of listitem
[11:33] <plovs> it's just that validating takes so horribly long
[11:34] <froud> your catalogs must be out of date
[11:34] <froud> why dontyou get an XML editor like Oxygen
[11:34] <froud> http://www.inwords.co.za/products.html
[11:35] <froud> you can get a free demo to try it
[11:35] <froud> trust me its good :-)
[11:37] <abelli> buon giorno
[11:37] <plovs> looking...
[11:37] <plovs> abelli: hi!
[11:40] <plovs> froud: java?
[11:41] <froud> Heh, Heh, yes :-)
[11:41] <froud> But big bonus on the editing side
[11:41] <froud> and validation etc
[11:42] <plovs> still, 50$ ... i have to think about that
[11:42] <plovs> but i'm downloading the demo
[11:42] <froud> Sure you will love it. I preffer it to XML Spy and its a whole lot  cheaper
[11:43] <froud> The support group is also good
[11:43] <froud> and it helps that I was the original author of the user manual ;_)
[11:44] <plovs> i mostly use vim
[11:44] <plovs> for just about everything
[11:44] <froud> tried it, OOxygen wins hands down :-0
[11:45] <froud> Inline context completion etc
[11:45] <froud> easy valdations
[11:46] <plovs> who removes all the empty lines all the time, the validator?
[11:46] <froud> No Pretty-Print
[11:47] <froud> When your indentation is all wacked just press the pretty print button
[11:47] <froud> makes things easier to see
[11:48] <froud> well try it and see
[11:51] <plovs> downloading java
[12:03] <plovs> looks nice
[12:04] <froud> Try editing on eyour files
[12:04] <froud> you will see the inline context completion
[12:05] <froud> works on elements, attributes and their values
[12:05] <froud> Also the project panel on th eleft is a time save
[12:05] <froud> You also have XSLT debug
[12:06] <froud> XML Tree Editor
[12:06] <froud> and you can inspect    th eobject models
[12:06] <froud> try insert one of our entities
[12:06] <froud> do &ubuntu-
[12:06] <froud> you will see the list of entities defined in global.ent
[12:06] <froud> much shorter :-)
[12:21] <froud> plovs, wicked stuff hey :-)
[01:06] <froud> geeze dudes - writing about Demand Driven Supply Networks is caving my head in
[01:21] <froud> Hmm, interesting how Yelp uses the GNOME icons for admonitions. I like them much better than the docbook ones. Anyone mind if I replace them with those from GNOME?
[01:21] <plovs> froud: i am seriously in favour
[01:25] <froud> Ok found them and they are now in SVN. Much better :-)
[01:25] <plovs> i'll update and rebuild the faqguide
[01:26] <froud> cool the new images will be used automatically
[01:27] <froud> now all we need is ChrisH to work his magic on that nasty CSS
[01:29] <plovs> and then we have one doc finished and a nice base for the other two
[01:29] <froud> Hmm, but I still see many empty sections. Was it like this in the last release?
[01:30] <froud> plovs, do you think we should enable toc generation on the chapter levels
[01:30] <froud> opps my mistake
[01:30] <froud> we already did
[01:31] <froud> looking good plovs 
[01:34] <plovs> yep, looks nice, now we only need to change the arrows and the home icon, i think
[01:36] <plovs> many empty sections? only tipsandtricks is not yet done, the rest should be finished???
[01:36] <plovs> is my repo not the same as yours?
[01:38] <plovs> froud: could you take a look in yelp, with arrow down you can go over the whole tree
[01:38] <plovs> froud: everything but tipsandtricks should be there
[01:41] <froud> yes. it's just tips and tricks, well a large part thereof
[01:42] <froud> pit yelp does such a poor job of alignment
[01:42] <froud> pity
[01:42] <plovs> yeah, look rather bad
[01:43] <plovs> looks
[01:43] <froud> I have not had time to test it in 2.9.3
[01:43] <froud> I think that is what ships with Hoary, right?
[01:45] <plovs> yes
[01:45] <froud> Hmm, perhaps we should test it?
[01:45] <plovs> sivang has it installed for sure, when he comes on line we should ask
[01:46] <froud> k
[02:26] <sivang> morning all
[02:26] <froud> boker
[02:26] <sivang> froud: G'morning :)
[02:26] <ChrisH> sivang: hi
[02:26] <sivang> Hey ChrisH !
[02:27] <froud> sivang, you run Yelp 2.9.3?
[02:28] <sivang> froud: I upgraded last night, and it says 2.9.3
[02:28] <froud> Can you test the faqguide for plovs
[02:29] <sivang> froud: ofcourse :) after some breakfast :)
[02:29] <froud> we would like to know how the text and numbers align. In the current version it is poor.
[02:29] <froud> yes b'fast is more important
[02:30] <sivang> plovs: hi! I will test for you in a 30 minutes or so :)
[02:42] <plovs> sivang: hi! super thanks
[02:47] <froud> 30 deg
[02:52] <froud> mako, RelaxNG here we come, at last :-)
[02:57] <plovs_> ok, got the link
[03:23] <plovs> froud: would it be a good idea to put some validationrules in the make-file?
[03:24] <plovs> if yes, these?xmllint --noout --xinclude --postvalid <file>
[03:29] <froud> plovs, well you can, but technically you should have a valid and tested source before doing make
[03:30] <plovs> froud: where to put it then, i would like an easy way from cli to check my files, without remembering xmllint command line options
[03:32] <abelli> when does enrico,usually join ?
[03:33] <froud> plovs, write a shell script that takes an arguement?
[03:33] <froud> also do remember the shortcut do history
[03:33] <froud> !###
[03:35] <plovs> abelli: enrico said he would be online late tonight
[03:36] <plovs> froud: i know, but it would be nice to have it in a central place, so everybody who adds stuff can easily validate
[03:37] <plovs> i'll put a test in if it's no good i'll remove it
[03:37] <froud> plovs, just create a script like xmllint --noout --xinclude --postvalid $1
[03:38] <plovs> froud:  done that already
[03:39] <plovs> i was just thinking, you told me to validate, if you hadn't i would not even have thought of it. so what about the next guy?
[03:40] <froud> sure
[03:41] <plovs> btw, i\m more or less finished, some things need to be added still, but mostly its done
[03:41] <froud> hey you wiped my entities from this morning?
[03:41] <plovs> i hope not???
[03:41] <froud> yes there gona
[03:41] <plovs> i am not the entity wiping kinda guy
[03:41] <froud> no worries will bring them back in sec
[03:42] <abelli> plovs: thank you
[03:44] <froud> plovs, :-) SVN you gotta love it. Just trust it an it will love you.
[03:45] <plovs> how?
[03:45] <froud> nice plovs  you're on a role today
[03:46] <plovs> wanted to wrap it up, and work was slow today
[03:46] <froud> <!ENTITY gnome 'http://www.gnome.org/' >
[03:46] <froud> <!ENTITY kde 'http://www.kde.org/' >
[03:46] <froud> <!ENTITY lugww 'http://lugww.counter.li.org/' >
[03:46] <froud> opps
[03:46] <froud> svn cat global.ent -r 277
[03:46] <froud> shows the patch
[03:47] <froud> since it was only three lines, just copy them and create a new patch
[03:48] <froud> I could also just reapply the whole patch
[03:48] <froud> but that would be overkill
[03:48] <froud> and I would have to make sure I dont break something in later patches
[03:48] <plovs> svn is quite nice i must say
[03:48] <froud> better than cvs
[03:49] <froud> although I have been playing with arch and its growing on me by the day :-)
[03:49] <plovs> we will be moving to arch
[03:49] <plovs> i have been told
[03:49] <froud> but cant do file level patches :-)
[03:49] <abelli> all: sorry but are the images in this page  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuArtwork meant to be shown?
[03:50] <plovs> abelli: yes
[03:50] <plovs> at least if nobody changed them, to something else\
[03:51] <plovs> froud: we will use some spinoff of arch, but for now well keep subversion
[03:51] <abelli> plovs: can you restore that page..
[03:51] <froud> perhaps, we'll see
[03:51] <abelli> well "could you please, kindly, restore that page?"
[03:52] <plovs> abelli: no i am in the server room, on cli, sorry
[03:52] <froud> personally I like to be able to do file patches, not just directy level patches
[03:52] <plovs> abelli: i see no pictures, and the wiki does not work from elinks
[03:52] <abelli> froud: my ol' good, lovable,  friend... could you please do it?
[03:52] <abelli> :)
[03:53] <froud> abelli, I am not a employee :-)
[03:53] <abelli> plovs: but they are meant to work right?
[03:53] <froud> I have no access, otherwise I would
[03:53] <abelli> well you can edit it..
[03:53] <abelli> its public.
[03:54] <plovs> abelli: yes, but the wiki is kind of crummy atm, afaik, ask again tonight, i'll forget it for sure
[03:54] <abelli> plovs , froud : thank you
[03:55] <plovs> ok, time to go and get some diner, cu later
[03:56] <froud> abelli, really I cant help. I can edit, but what does that help I cannot check if the images are there or not.
[03:56] <froud> plovs, by
[03:56] <froud> bye
[03:56] <abelli> plovs: dinner?
[06:26] <abelli> what about enrico?
[06:37] <hornbeck> anyone around?
[06:38] <ChrisH> yes, sir
[06:39] <[froud] > limping
[06:44] <abelli> hello ChrisH 
[06:44] <hornbeck> I will be taking the svn server down for about 30 minutes this evening
[06:44] <hornbeck> I will post to the mailing list with exact times
[06:44] <hornbeck> got a new router, that will make it alittle more stable
[06:44] <[froud] > k
[06:47] <ChrisH> abelli: :) Hi
[06:47] <ChrisH> hornbeck: sure
[09:03] <plovs> hi guys
[10:54] <plovs> faqguide is ported!
[11:20] <sid77> hi
[11:25] <plovs> hornbeck: when will svn go down?