[12:14] <lamont_r> -DDO_YOU_KNOW_WHAT_YOUR_ARE_DOING=1
[12:15] <daniels> hmm.  after merging all the debian xsf typo fixes to our packages:
[12:15] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~xap% find debian/ -name \*.rej | wc -l
[12:15] <daniels> 37
[12:15] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~xap% wc -l $(find debian/ -name \*.rej) | tail -1
[12:15] <daniels>  2114 total
[12:20] <pitti> elmo: please sync cdbs
[12:25] <jordi> daniels: I know it's a bit early, but I think I won't be around when it's the 6th in .au.
[12:25] <jordi> err
[12:25] <jordi> throat
[12:26] <jordi> ~ happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday little daniel, happy birthday to you!
[12:26] <thom> jordi: you've gone southern on us?
[12:26] <elmo> pitti: done
[12:26] <pitti> thanks
[12:26] <daniels> heh
[12:26] <daniels> jordi: thanks dude
[12:27] <jordi> thom: uuh?
[12:27] <fabbione> oh... finally daniel is turning 18...
[12:27] <fabbione> daniels: now i can take you to the red light copenhagen area ;)
[12:27] <fabbione> without getting arrested
[12:27] <jordi> 18? I thoight thias was 19
[12:27] <jordi> elmo: heeey
[12:27] <jordi> elmo: today I became a debianppc user.
[12:28] <daniels> fabbione: dude, already 18 :P
[12:28] <jordi> elmo: well, I'm a potential debian ppc user right now, because I can't install it yet.
[12:28] <ogra> daniels: hey, happy b-day :)
[12:29] <elmo> jordi: ubuntu ppc user, shurely? :p
[12:31] <daniels> ogra: not yet, it's on thursday
[12:31] <ogra> daniels: ahh, oh, sorry then :)
[12:32] <daniels> no worries; i blame jordi
[12:33] <sjoerd> daniels: what time is it over there ? 
[12:35] <jordi> elmo: I guess it'll have a partition :)
[12:36] <jordi> but dude, I'm still a Debian guy. Unless something radical happens. ;)
[12:38] <daniels> sjoerd: 10:39am at the moment
[12:39] <Mithrandir> is it tla add "file with space" or tla add 'file\(sp)with\(sp)space'?
[12:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: if it's not the former, someone deserves FLAMING PLASTIC ANAL VIOLATION
[12:39] <pitti> elmo: please sync xine-lib
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok :)
[12:40] <elmo> pitti: done
[12:43] <fabbione> pitti:
[12:43] <fabbione> Applying   1 revisions to security/commoncap.c  
[12:43] <fabbione> Applying   1 revisions to security/dummy.c  
[12:43] <fabbione> i think they just committed the fix for the capability
[12:43] <pitti> oh, nice
[12:43] <pitti> so maybe we can take it for Warty?
[12:43] <fabbione> i will be able to tell you tomorrow at 14:00 UTC :-)
[12:43] <jordi> elmo: oh, I couldn't get the fast HD on time, but anyway.
[12:43] <fabbione> pitti: yeah i am pretty sure...
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: can you please mail herbert the fix and have him have a review at it?
[12:45] <pitti> fabbione: ah, you mean you don't get the patch before this time?
[12:45] <elmo> jordi: sucks
[12:45] <fabbione> pitti: the script that extract the patches from bk run at that time ;)
[12:45] <elmo> jordi: like it generally tho?
[12:45] <jordi> elmo: I know :/
[12:45] <pitti> fabbione: ah, ok.
[12:45] <jdub> warty bootup is surprisingly slow once you're used to hoary ;-)
[12:45] <jordi> elmo: sure. MacOS is pretty. :)
[12:46] <jordi> elmo: a HD is not that hard to replace eventually
[12:46] <fabbione> pitti: and it needs the daily log from bk generated patches..
[12:46] <elmo> heh, I never even booted macos
[12:46] <jordi> I have nothing else right now :)
[12:47] <jordi> I think downloading a netinst iso sounds like a plan right now.
[12:47] <Kamion> I booted it briefly, d-i didn't work well enough at the time and I had no other CD-burning equipment
[12:48] <Kamion> you can also bootstrap the installer straight from MacOS if you try hard enough and know the runes
[12:48] <Kamion> I mean, putting files on the MacOS partition and then boot straight from Open Firmware
[12:49] <elmo> seb128: why are the -omg packages separate?
[12:49] <jordi> ugh. I don't know the runes. It's more or less a new adventure for me, I've never been out of the x86 cage before. :)
[12:50] <jordi> "oh my god" packages? :)
[12:50] <Kamion> elmo: does cdimage@ubuntu.com exist yet?
[12:50] <seb128> ELACKOFCONTEXT
[12:50] <elmo> Kamion: err, no, one sec
[12:50] <seb128> which packages ?
[12:50] <elmo> seb128: pyorbit, Debian NEW
[12:50] <elmo> chanabuse, I know
[12:50] <Kamion> jordi: CD will be way easier for now, trust me :)
[12:50] <Kamion> but it's interesting that you can do it
[12:50] <fabbione> pitti: patch on the way soon.. i just figured another bt bit :-)
[12:50] <jordi> Kamion: nod :)
[12:52] <elmo> Kamion: done
[12:52] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[12:58] <zul> pitti: is your hardened kernel just the grsercurity stuff?
[12:58] <pitti> zul: right now yes, but there will be more patches in the future
[12:58] <pitti> zul: trulux suggested some that he wnats to apply
[12:58] <zul> pitti, ok cool im trying some other patches as well
[12:59] <pitti> zul: if you have suggestions, please mail me :-)
[12:59] <zul> *cough* realtime linux security module
[12:59] <zul> *cough*
[01:00] <pitti> zul: NOT the one from jack, or?
[01:00] <pitti> zul: the thing that grants CAP_SETPCAP?
[01:00] <zul> pitti: yep
[01:00] <seb128> elmo: oh that. The maintainers for the others python-orbit bindings have done most of the work. In fact that's to avoid to deal with alternatives. All the package provide a orbit binding, the files in the standard path are in the -omg which conflicts with the other -omg ...
[01:00] <seb128> not sure I'm clear
[01:00] <pitti> zul: over my cold dead body
[01:00] <zul> pitti: http://kerneltrap.org/files/jeremy/realtime_lsm.patch
[01:01] <pitti> zul: this kernel should become more secure, not less :-)
[01:01] <zul> true
[01:01] <pitti> zul: granting caps to other processes is insane, and jack's design is just broken in that regard
[01:02] <pitti> zul: sorry :-)
[01:02] <crimsun> ubuntu kernels already include user mlock()
[01:02] <seb128> elmo: simple version: "we have several -omg conflicting with the other ones, the installed one define the default orbit binding"
[01:02] <zul> pitti: no problems
[01:02] <pitti> zul: however, I'm not opposed to providing a -realtime kernel in universe
[01:02] <crimsun> so it's not absolutely necessary to use realtime_lsm
[01:02] <pitti> crimsun: yes, that helps a lot to drop setuid bits, e. g. from gpg
[01:02] <fabbione> pitti: did you get my mail?
[01:04] <zul> brb
[01:04] <pitti> fabbione: yes, I did
[01:04] <pitti> fabbione: hey, nice and easy patch
[01:05] <fabbione> pitti: but let's wait tomorrow when i can compare all the changesets
[01:05] <pitti> fabbione: sure, we still have some days anyway
[01:06] <jdub> whoa, gigE is fasssssst
[01:06] <daniels> is it safe to use ~ in hoary?
[01:06] <daniels> (in version numbers)
[01:06] <trulux> pitti, i will maintain my own brand of selinux kernels
[01:06] <elmo> daniels: no, katie will bitchslap you
[01:06] <daniels> i have xorg 6.8.2rc1 to pacage
[01:07] <daniels> (or 6.8.2~rc1, rather)
[01:07] <daniels> elmo: arse
[01:07] <fabbione> jdub: gigE are slow... 10G are FAST
[01:07] <elmo> if you can get consensus from the toolchain guys that it's safe, I can fix katie
[01:07] <elmo> packaging toolchain, that is
[01:07] <daniels> elmuh, toolchain?
[01:07] <daniels> ah, right
[01:07] <daniels> mdz: ?
[01:07] <daniels> Keybuk: ?
[01:07] <Keybuk> hmm?
[01:07] <Keybuk> I'd suggest we use them
[01:08] <Keybuk> to avoid +thom-woz-ere+ version numbers
[01:08] <daniels> heh
[01:08] <daniels> +rentboy7
[01:09] <Keybuk> thom: which reminds me, I owe you $1
[01:09] <daniels> Keybuk: give him $1 worth of peanuts
[01:09] <thom> Keybuk: hm?
[01:09] <daniels> Keybuk: (or fifty opinions)
[01:10] <Keybuk> thom: some wide-arsed slack-jawed faggot australian teenager bought a t-shirt ;p
[01:10] <thom> rofl
[01:10] <fabbione> AHHAHA
[01:10] <thom> quel surprise
[01:11] <Keybuk> then again, you owe me 25 anyway :p
[01:12] <elmo> hey, are we doing a mass order of cafepress stuff at any point?
[01:12] <elmo> or does it not save you much?
[01:12] <daniels> elmo: au contrare, it can ruin you
[01:12] <daniels> elmo: get over $x, where x is the magical customs limit, and welcome to the world of import duty and vat
[01:13] <daniels> elmo: they changed the customs limit down by about $200 shortly before we ordered once, so we got absolutely raped ($au180 duty+gst on a $au440 order) wit a group order
[01:13] <daniels> elmo: it doesn't really help much
[01:13] <Kamion> which all reminds me
[01:13] <Kamion> 23:06 < Keybuk> Kamion: mind out, floor's a bit slippy
[01:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: what was that about? :)
[01:13] <Keybuk> someone mentioned the "L" word just before your retort
[01:13] <Keybuk> and we know what happened last time
[01:15] <Kamion> ah, heh
[01:15] <daniels> heh
[01:15] <pitti> fabbione: essentially you just need to install pkgstriptranslations in the build chroot
[01:15] <jdub> so i was thinking about the server stuff
[01:16] <jdub> (the "ubuntu is a desktop os" problem)
[01:16] <pitti> fabbione: and enable it in /etc/pkgstriptranslations.conf
[01:16] <jdub> and the big thing that bites me with my new ubuntu server at home is a lack of webmail
[01:16] <pitti> fabbione: this should be everything that's necessary
[01:17] <pitti> fabbione: testing appreciated, though :-)
[01:20] <fabbione> pitti: is pkgstriptranslations in universe?
[01:20] <pitti> fabbione: oops, yes
[01:21] <pitti> fabbione: I thought it was already seeded
[01:21] <fabbione> ok .... i need to pull it in manually... if it is _all.deb
[01:21] <pitti> mdz: we need to seed pkgstriptranslations to supported
[01:21] <pitti> fabbione: yes, it's only a shell script
[01:21] <sivang> jdub: having some sort of hardened linux into it plus making it run on low end hardware is already a big step, I am going to reinstall my router with it when I know sarg-->ubuntu upgrade is error free :)
[01:23] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. installed and configured
[01:23] <fabbione> pitti: from the next package it should be there
[01:23] <pitti> fabbione: can you test it with a small package?
[01:24] <pitti> fabbione: whcih actually has translations?
[01:24] <fabbione> pitti: the buildd will test for us...
[01:24] <pitti> ok
[01:24] <fabbione> pitti: at the first package that it will hit 
[01:24] <pitti> hey, my i386 hardened kernel build is ready
[01:25] <jdub> Kamion: hrm, openssh-client borkage
[01:26] <jdub> hrm, perhaps it's base-config
[01:27] <fabbione> ok.. i am off..
[01:27] <fabbione> i need some sleep badly
[01:27] <pitti> night fabbione 
[01:27] <fabbione> pitti: i will let you know tomorrow what packages will build with pkgstriptranslation
[01:27] <daniels> night fabbione
[01:27] <fabbione> and we will check the debdiffs with the previous
[01:27] <ogra> fabbione, night
[01:27] <Mithrandir> thom: I guess you were happy to get rid of those m-t bugs. :P
[01:27] <fabbione> night ladies ;)
[01:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ask for beer!
[01:28] <fabbione> ;)
[01:28] <jdub> oh wait
[01:28] <jdub> never mind
[01:28] <jdub> it's this whackass installer breakage
[01:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: he owes me a british beer, actually.  Which he forgot to bring to Mataro.
[01:28] <fabbione> ehehhe
[01:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: so he'll have to bring one to .au instead.
[01:29] <Kamion> jdub: que?
[01:29] <thom> Mithrandir: strangely enough, yes
[01:29] <jdub> Kamion: when i installed hoary yesterday, the last item on the stage 2 menu was "execute a shell" -> there was no "finish installation"
[01:30] <pitti> Night everybody
[01:30] <jdub> Kamion: only now (having rebooted numerous times, and got stuck with stage2 on tty1) the menu has it
[01:30] <Kamion> oh, you mentioned that, I wonder if it's merge breakage
[01:30] <Kamion> finish got split into two pieces recently
[01:30] <Kamion> aha!
[01:31] <jdub> oh crap, it's still cycling anyway ;)
[01:31] <Kamion> stupid non-preserver-of-+x-bits
[01:31] <Kamion> jdub: try chmod +x /usr/lib/base-config/menu/exit
[01:32] <Keybuk> hmm?
[01:32] <Keybuk> it shouldn't drop a +x bit
[01:32] <jdub> finish dumped me back to the menu
[01:33] <pitti> Keybuk: any idea what went wrong with http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/samba/ ?
[01:33] <Keybuk> define "went wrong" ?
[01:33] <pitti> Keybuk: all patches are in the order of 10 MB
[01:33] <Kamion> Keybuk: it does, in native packages; has happened to me several times and I think I mentioned it to you before
[01:33] <Kamion> Keybuk: in the specific case where the +x-bit-file is new
[01:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: shouldn't do ... unless files are added on one side?
[01:33] <pitti> Keybuk: not quite the size appropirate for manual review
[01:33] <Keybuk> oh
[01:33] <Keybuk> yeah, that's just patch not adding the +x bit
[01:34] <Kamion> would be nice if mom could go check on that after patch
[01:34] <pitti> Keybuk: even worse, I tried to extract the Ubuntu changes manually; there is no 3.0.9-1 version on the Debian mirrors (any more?)
[01:34] <Keybuk> pitti: looks like they generated the docs
[01:34] <pitti> Keybuk: I think I will merge it manually using the changelog entries to find what changed
[01:34] <Kamion> jdub: yeah, you're at low priority, finish is no longer the last item in sequence
[01:34] <Keybuk> --- samba_3.0.8-2/docs/Samba-Developers-Guide.pdf	2004-10-25 17:18:24.000000000 +0100
[01:34] <Keybuk> +++ samba_3.0.10-1/docs/Samba-Developers-Guide.pdf	2004-12-15 16:26:14.000000000 +0000
[01:34] <Keybuk> just strip the bits of patch that are docs
[01:35] <Keybuk> the rest of it looks sane
[01:35] <Kamion> jdub: you'll need to restart base-config completely after the chmod +x
[01:35] <Kamion> anyway, fix uploaded
[01:35] <pitti> Keybuk: okay
[01:35] <pitti> night then
[01:35] <Keybuk> in fact, it looks like it's done most of that work for you
[01:35] <Keybuk> dropped seems nearly all docs
[01:35] <jdub> whoa
[01:35] <Keybuk> Kamion: mail me, easy enough I think
[01:35] <jdub> now it's asking me heaps of questions
[01:36] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, why can't mom prefer the Debian changes?
[01:36] <Kamion> it's at low priority :)
[01:36] <Kamion> jdub: DEBIAN_PRIORITY=high base-config, or something
[01:36] <jdub> low priority makes baby jesus cry
[01:36] <pitti> Keybuk: it seems more sensible to me to take the Debian hunk if Debian and Ubuntu both patch the same thing
[01:36] <jdub> Kamion: it's cycling, i don't really have the opportunity :)
[01:36] <mdz> pitti: go ahead and seed it
[01:36] <jdub> yay
[01:36] <jdub> Kamion: i got an 'exit baseconfig' :)
[01:36] <pitti> mdz: in the wiki?
[01:36] <mdz> pitti: in arch
[01:37] <pitti> mdz: okay, I will learn about this tomorrow
[01:37] <mdz> amu: still here?
[01:37] <pitti> n8
[01:37] <mdz> pitti: good night
[01:38] <Keybuk> pitti: it does?!
[01:38] <Keybuk> (I think)
[01:38] <Keybuk> it prefers which ever set of changes drop less
[01:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: done
[01:38] <jdub> Kamion: thanks :)
[01:39] <Kamion> jdub: tomorrow's CD should be fixed
[01:39] <pitti> Keybuk: I meant, there is a debian-dropped instead of an ubuntu-dropped one
[01:39] <Keybuk> that means it picked the debian patch
[01:39] <pitti> Keybuk: anyway, prefering the smaller drop might be the better default in general
[01:40] <Keybuk> that's what it does :)
[01:40] <Kamion> pitti: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0 is the relevant archive
[01:40] <Keybuk>     if winning_dropped is None or winning_dropped > dropped:
[01:40] <Kamion> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SeedManagement
[01:41] <amu> mdz: yep
[01:42] <mdz> amu: can you send me your latest diffs?
[01:43] <jdub> so, we don't want resolvconf?
[01:43] <daniels> so, screen sucks
[01:44] <Kamion> would resolvconf not require interesting netcfg changes?
[01:44] <amu> mdz: hmm i'm just upgrading to 20041227ubuntu1 :) 
[01:44] <daniels> setting defutf8 on with LC_CTYPE=en_AU.UTF-8 and an unset LANG, doesn't give me UTF-8
[01:44] <daniels> surely defutf8 on means 'make the default UTF-8, seriously'
[01:44] <Kamion> can we make screen honour LC_CTYPE =~ /\.UTF-8$/ and set defutf8 on by default in that case?
[01:44] <Kamion> interesting, defutf8 on works for me
[01:44] <amu> mdz: letme know if you want the "old one   
[01:46] <jdub> hrm
[01:47] <jdub> ber, aptitude is annoying
[01:48] <lamont> Kamion/anyone: any locales other than *_US that should use letter instead of A4?
[01:49] <lamont> well, ??_US*, to be more precise
[01:50] <daniels> Kamion: to be fair, this is screen on freebsd
[01:51] <mdz> daniels: do I understand correctly that you are going to try to sneak in a new X.org before UVF?
[01:52] <mdz> amu: I would like the old one now (the same thing you sent to Kamion?), and the new one when you've finished merging it
[01:52] <daniels> mdz: ish
[01:52] <amu> mdz: ok  
[01:52] <daniels> mdz: what we have now is 6.8.2rc1, by virtue of religiously tracking CVS's 6.8 branch
[01:52] <lamont> mdz: I hope he makes it
[01:52] <lamont> daniels: my patch gonna make it?
[01:53] <daniels> mdz: 6.8.2 is expected to go out with very few changes soon, so basically all that's involved is dropping 000_stolen_from_6.8_branch.diff, creating a new tarball, and bumping the version; no actual code changes of any weight whatsoever
[01:53] <daniels> lamont: i've already merged your hppa stuff locally, if that's what you mean
[01:53] <lamont> kewl
[01:54] <daniels> mdz: my understanding was that this was fine -- is this still the case?
[01:54] <daniels> mdz: it's really just cosmetic from what we've had since matar
[01:55] <mdz> daniels: upstream version freeze is, well, tomorrow
[01:55] <jdub> elmo: when will we get sync mails on *-changes?
[01:55] <daniels> mdz: hm
[01:56] <daniels> 23:04 < daniels_> jdub: fwiw, wouldn't mind an xorg exemption from uvf, especially since we're already totally up-to-date on 6.8.x branch anyway
[01:56] <daniels> 23:07 < jdub> daniels_: xorg is a feature goal, and packaged by us - just a matter of having upgrades confirmed, etc.
[01:56] <daniels> i probably should've been more clear
[01:57] <daniels> so, yeah, to clarify: we're talking a cosmetic version number bump, and replacing tarball+large patch with a tarball
[01:57] <daniels> the code changes are minimal and very few of them actually even affect us; it's about 20% of the patch churn you would find in a typical xorg upload, probably less
[01:57] <daniels> maybe 10
[01:58] <daniels> would that be ok?
[02:05] <lamont> mdz: any objection to me uploading the daily live-cd filesystem uncompressed (and compressing it in the build process)?  Then again, I wonder if it'd actually be rsyncable even then...
[02:05] <lamont> probably not
[02:12] <jdub> daniels: what happens if you load the nvidia module, but continue to use the nv x driver? anything scary?
[02:15] <mdz> daniels: when is it going to be uploaded?
[02:16] <mdz> lamont: why is it a problem to do the compression?
[02:16] <mdz> lamont: oh, for rsync
[02:16] <mdz> lamont: I don't think we should invite people to mirror it anyway
[02:16] <Kamion> nicer for the developers though
[02:17] <mdz> which developers?
[02:17] <mdz> we'll be building the live CDs in the data center
[02:17] <Kamion> the live CD developers
[02:17] <mdz> lamont: yes, ext2 fs
[02:17] <mdz> the only issue is that the compression takes a long time, so it would be nice for it to be done in advance
[02:18] <mdz> also, the uncompressed filesystem will be comparatively huge
[02:18] <daniels> mdz: i'll do 6.8.1-1ubuntu9 today, but as for 6.8.2, it depends when the tarball is rolled.
[02:18] <lamont> mdz: thinking about it, it's probably downhill even without compression
[02:18] <daniels> mdz: i believe it's scheduled for next week or so
[02:18] <daniels> jdub: nope, it's fine
[02:18] <jdub> daniels: perhaps we should be hotplugging nvidia in preference to nv.
[02:18] <jdub> or dropping in a "prefer me" hint with the nvidia-glx package or something
[02:19] <jdub> so people don't have to keep editing /etc/modules
[02:19] <daniels> jdub: they shouldn't have to; it should get loaded by the nvidia driver automatically
[02:19] <daniels> i have an nvidia card now, so i'll check that out later on in the week
[02:19] <jdub> i just tried on hoary; didn't work
[02:19] <jdub> (2.6.9-k7)
[02:19] <daniels> craptastic
[02:20] <daniels> 01:19 < nrubsig> daniels: I can answer that after this weeks r/w call, it's still a moving target (and to avoid that you ask
[02:20] <daniels>                  this question each day: "... at the end of january..." :-)
[02:20] <daniels> (r/w -> release wranglers)
[02:22] <Kamion> mdz: first weekly-dvd attempt building now; in the meantime I'm off to bed
[02:25] <lamont> Kamion: something told me it wouldn't require much work...
[02:25] <jdub> Kamion: ROCK!
[02:25] <lamont> although the dvd should also include the complete openCD.... :-)
[02:27] <mdz> Kamion: great, thanks
[02:36] <Kamion> lamont: yeah :) although putting sources on it will be a bit more complicated than just producing a DVD build with supported
[02:37] <mdz> lamont: Task: ubuntu-base and Task: ubuntu-desktop, respectively, but you really don't want debootstrap to try to install all of that stuff
[02:37] <mdz> lamont: it would be nice if debootstrap had the option to install some extra packages with apt
[02:37] <mdz> like rootstrap does
[02:38] <Kamion> base-installer does
[02:38] <Kamion> in fact debootstrap also does
[02:38] <mdz> it so doesn't
[02:38] <Kamion> oh, no, --include doesn't do it with apt
[02:38] <Kamion> you can at least list the deps
[02:39] <mdz> hardcoding all of the deps for ubuntu-desktop would be a nightmare
[02:40] <Kamion> yeah
[02:40] <mdz> jdub: isn't that what the script in nvidia-glx does?
[02:41] <mdz> jdub: don't tell me you didn't follow the howto ;-)
[02:41] <usual> will gstreamer be updated to a version capable of playing dvd's in hoary before release?
[02:42] <lamont> Kamion: so debootstrap hoary, and then chapt-get install ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-base?
[02:42] <lamont> btw, what was the syntax to apt to say 'task foo'?
[02:42] <jdub> mdz: oh man...
[02:42] <Kamion> aptitude install ~tfoo
[02:42] <lamont> ~t. ok.
[02:42] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, that should work (note ubuntu-base is already in debootstrap)
[02:42] <lamont> nice
[02:44] <mdz> lamont: if you like, you should be able to just chapt-get install ubunut-desktop
[02:44] <lamont> Kamion: any other ~ escapes?
[02:44] <mdz> rather than using the task
[02:44] <mdz> ubuntu-desktop, that is
[02:44] <lamont> mdz: yes.
[02:44] <lamont> execpt for ia64, that is
[02:44] <mdz> ia64 doesn't have metapackages yet?
[02:44] <mdz> should be trivial to fix
[02:46] <Kamion> lamont: "Search Patterns" in the aptitude manual documents them, I don't know any others offhand
[02:47] <lamont> losetup et al in udeb, no problem.
[02:47] <Kamion> there are quite a few thoug
[02:47] <Kamion> h
[02:47] <lamont> Kamion: cool
[02:47] <Kamion> better losetup in busybox, see mail
[02:47] <lamont> Kamion: haven't seen your reply et
[02:47] <Kamion> better => smaller ;)
[02:48] <lamont> and less work for that util-linux maintainer..
[02:48] <Kamion> need to sync up available options etc. though.
[02:48] <Kamion> weekly-dvd build 2, might work this time
[02:48] <Kamion> CD 1 will only be filled with 1737329326 bytes ...
[02:48] <Kamion> CD 1 will have 1934 packages.
[02:48] <Kamion> (i386)
[02:49] <lamont> Kamion: for extra credit, put i386/ppc/amd64 on one dvd that boots on all 3...
[02:50] <lamont> or not.
[02:51] <Kamion> I cunningly escape because 1.7GB*3 is more than a single-sided single-layer DVD ;)
[02:51] <lamont> arch all to the rescue.
[02:51] <Kamion> good point
[02:52] <lamont> must flee
[02:52] <Kamion> mad debian-cd patches welcome ;)
[02:52] <lamont> mtg in 8 minutes, 10 minute drive
[02:52] <lamont> lol
[02:52] <lamont> I know it can be done for (i386,ia64,hppa)
[02:52] <lamont> since the 3 boot loaders all look at different places to load the boot loader....
[02:52] <lamont> later - back in 1-3 hours
[03:46] <jdub> so in windows
[03:47] <jdub> "turn off computer" shows a dialogue with
[03:47] <jdub> "stand by" (suspend to ram)
[03:47] <jdub> "turn off" (halt)
[03:47] <jdub> "restart" (reboot)
[03:47] <jdub> if you hold down shift, "stand by" changes to "hibernate"
[03:47] <jdub> and the suspend to ram works really nicely
[03:48] <jdub> "log off" gives you the choice between switch user and log off
[03:48] <jdub> which is kind of "do this... no really!"
[03:49] <sivang> jdub: well, suspend doesn't work no more on the dell inspiron, xp sp2 has b0rked it's modem driver and thus it can't. :-) (gigles)
[04:05] <bob2> haha
[04:05] <bob2> does it work on ubuntu now?
[04:06] <sivang> bob2: as soon as gf leaves the laptop, I will test :)
[04:07] <bob2> hah
[04:07] <sivang> bob2: ok, she left it, on to testing! :)
[04:24] <sivang> mjg59: ping
[04:24] <mjg59> Hello?
[04:25] <sivang> mjg59: I'm back with my laptop :) I am now using the nv free driver
[04:25] <mjg59> Ah, cool
[04:25] <sivang> mjg59: sleep works much faster now,
[04:25] <sivang> mjg59: however it doesn't seem to resume. :-( 
[04:25] <mjg59> Hrm. Irritating.
[04:26] <sivang> mjg59: one time I tried it, and it just slept and cam back after a sec.
[04:26] <mjg59> Hrm. Normally means a driver failed to suspend correctly.
[04:27] <sivang> mjg59: I have nvidia-glx installed, can this be the problem? I modprobe -r nvidia before trying to sleep
[04:27] <mjg59> Hrm. shouldn't make any real difference.
[04:27] <mjg59> I'll see if I can work out what's going on.
[04:30] <sivang> mjg59: let me know what info you require from me :)
[04:34] <sivang> mjg59: it worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[04:34] <mjg59> Ooh
[04:34] <mjg59> What did you do?
[04:35] <sivang> mjg59: I remarked nvidia bin driver from my /etc/modules
[04:35] <mjg59> Ha!
[04:35] <mjg59> Damned nvidia scum
[04:35] <sivang> mjg59: and rebooted
[04:36] <sivang> mjg59: now, nefore that I also dpkg-reconfgiured xserver-xorg to us nv instead of nvidia, and unckech the glx and GLcore
[04:36] <sivang> mjg59: because for some strange reason , it couldn't find GLCore when I left it on...
[04:36] <mjg59> Rock
[04:36] <sivang> mjg59: btw, GLCore is the open implementation of the opengl right?
[04:37] <sivang> mjg59: now antoher problem is, that your scripts doesn't recongnize when I close the lid as a sleep eevent...:-/
[04:37] <mjg59> It's the module that lets the X server do opengl, yeah
[04:37] <mjg59> sivang: Yeah, that'll be configurable in hoary
[04:37] <mjg59> We need to redo some of the scripts
[04:37] <mjg59> If you want, try hacking /etc/acpi/lid.sh
[04:38] <sivang> mjg59: I want to :) but am not sure I Know enough :)
[04:38] <mjg59> Ha
[04:38] <sivang> mjg59: I can try.
[04:38] <sivang> mjg59: how do I detect a close lid event?
[04:39] <sivang> is it something like a keystroke?
[04:39] <mjg59> sivang: /etc/acpi/events/ has stuff in to detect events
[04:39] <sivang> mjg59: and another trouble now, that I lost all my resultions from the prior conf file, it now only accepts 640x480..
[04:39] <mjg59> They then run scripts in /etc/acpi/
[04:40] <mjg59> sivang: Heh. dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg should let you choose higher ones
[04:40] <sivang> mjg59: that whay I tired wrt resolutioins, still cannot choose any hight using the gnome menu
[04:41] <sivang> mjg59: also, very important to note that I disable fb 
[04:41] <mjg59> Hrm. Take a look at /var/log/xorg.log?
[04:41] <mjg59> sivang: Yeah, framebuffer won't work at the moment
[04:41] <sivang> mjg59:  I will, debian made me very comfortable with it :)
[04:41] <sivang> sorry, with xfree86config-4
[04:41] <sivang> :-)
[05:07] <lamont> moof
[05:09] <mdz> lamont: I didn't get Colin's reply about the live CD stuff, either
[05:09] <lamont> mdz: still no joy here.  dunno
[05:10] <mdz> Kamion: if you sent a reply about the live CD / udeb stuff, we didn't receive it
[05:32] <lamont> mdz: is UVF tomorrow morning, or is tomorrow's katie run the last?
[05:32] <lamont> it has to be either today's or tomorrow's katie run that is the last
[05:32] <mdz> lamont: Debian's katie run, you mean?
[05:33] <mdz> what time is that?
[05:33] <mdz> depends on whether elmo wakes up before or after, I suppose
[05:33] <lamont> 11:54 PST
[05:34] <lamont> or 11:52 - never really was sure on the exact minute of that one.
[05:48] <mako> erghg.
[05:49] <mako> can someone look at: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/
[05:49] <mako> looks like apache is not doing the UTF8 right to me
[05:49] <lamont> I see a string of 6 A's with accents
[05:49] <mako> yeah me too :-/
[05:49] <mako> also, if you click on archives, it does weird things
[05:50] <Clint> mako: yeah, apache is saying it's 8859-1
[05:50] <mako> like, it doesn't take me there
[05:50] <mako> thom!!!!!!
[05:50] <lamont> speaking of which, I need a mention or two in ubuntu traffic
[05:50] <lamont> my page rank dropped to 2.
[05:50] <mako> lamont: i have anohter one (or two) out tomorrow :)
[05:50] <mako> Clint: i am doing the <?xml THIS IS UTF8!?> thing
[05:50] <mako> does teh archives link for anyone
[05:51] <mako> it is bogus for me
[05:51] <mako> and i can't figure out whyy
[05:51] <lamont> archives gets me to the archives page
[05:52] <lamont> still lots of funky A characters.
[05:52] <lamont>  - 
[05:52] <Clint> it doesn't matter; browsers are going to listen to the http server
[05:52] <Clint> get the apache config fixed
[05:53] <mako> for some reason, when i click on the archives page, i get an error that it can't be found
[05:53] <mako> but from mozilla, not apache
[05:54] <Clint> I don't have that problem.
[05:54] <mako> yeah.. i don't in links
[05:54] <mako> i'll leave that for tomorrow
[05:54] <lamont> bbiab
[06:06] <mjg59> mako: apache will default to sending 8859-1, and I don't think that can be overridden in the page
[06:06] <mjg59> I can't remember if .htaccess is sufficient, or if the central config has to be changed
[06:06] <mako> mjg59: yeah.. and the config is set to not allow me to change this in an htaccess
[06:06] <mako> it is sufficient
[06:06] <mako> but only if i have perm to do it :)
[06:07] <mjg59> Haha
[06:07] <mako> AddDefaultCharset utf-8 should work
[06:07] <mako> can be called from a .htaccess
[06:07] <mako> just tried that
[06:07] <mjg59> Everyone should use utf-8
[06:07] <mako> DUDE I KNOW
[06:07] <mjg59> For everything
[06:07] <mako> DUDE I KNOW
[06:07] <Clint> the correct solution would be to drop AddDefaultCharset from the main config
[06:07] <mako> *iso-8859-1*
[06:07] <mjg59> Hrngh.
[06:07] <mjg59> 5AM and I'm still at work.
[06:07] <mako> who needs euro symbols!
[06:07] <mako> no wait.. 
[06:07] <mako> who needs ANYTHING ELSE IN UNICODE
[06:07] <mako> no interrobangs fo rme
[06:07] <whiprush> hey mako, I'd like to run an ubuntu-traffic idea by you ...
[06:08] <mako> whiprush: cool
[06:08] <whiprush> have you considered a total community roll up, including the forums?
[06:08] <mjg59> After the two hours of HOT SCIENCE ACTION RUSH, I'm back to waiting for irritatingly slow webservers
[06:08] <whiprush> not just the lists.
[06:08] <mako> whiprush: i do the lists and as much irc as i can
[06:09] <mako> whiprush: that takes a couple days a week to do well
[06:09] <whiprush> well put me to work.
[06:09] <mako> whiprush: dude, if you send a list of stuff from the forums each week, i *promise* it will get in
[06:09] <whiprush> I've been mulling something like fedoranews.org for a few days.
[06:09] <whiprush> or maybe some kind of tip blog or somethign
[06:09] <whiprush> but I don't want to replicate anything.
[06:10] <whiprush> maybe tie it in with announcements, like freezes and whatnot.
[06:10] <mako> i'm happy to integrate independently produced content, forum summaries, etc
[06:10] <mako> well, i already get that stuff :)
[06:10] <mako> i'm open to anything
[06:10] <whiprush> do you keep a working copy of it someplace?
[06:10] <mako> whiprush: i have a copy in a tla/baz repository
[06:11] <mako> whiprush: it's not mirrored anywhere publicly accessible yet but if you want a stab, we can work from that
[06:11] <whiprush> k, I'm rusty on tla, but I can brush up on that tomorrow.
[06:11] <mako> whiprush: well, we should do baz
[06:11] <whiprush> I can do that
[06:11] <mako> i need to to tag into a new archive anyway
[06:11] <mako> because this archive has some other stuff that i don't want to mirror
[06:12] <mako> so i'll tag into a new archive and then convert it to baz
[06:12] <mako> whiprush: what timezone are you in?
[06:12] <whiprush> well, one thing I've noticed is the duplication of forum and list content, maybe plopping major things in a common u-t will alleviate that
[06:12] <whiprush> EST.
[06:12] <mako> whiprush: cool.. me too where are you at?
[06:12] <whiprush> detroit
[06:12] <mako> detroit is in EST?
[06:13] <mako> wow.. i thought it was kind of west
[06:13] <whiprush> or EDT, whatever we're at now, but yeah, eastern.
[06:13] <mako> do you like detroit?
[06:13] <whiprush> wouldn't live here if I didn't.
[06:13] <whiprush> more metro
[06:13] <whiprush> not like, detroit detroit. 
[06:13] <mako> there are tens of thousands of FREE HOUSES in detroit
[06:14] <whiprush> actually, downtown isn't too bad lately.
[06:14] <whiprush> since they built the new tiget stadium
[06:14] <mako> i know. this is the opportunity
[06:14] <mako> cause the houses are still free. the warehouse spaces are SUPER cheap.. i want to create free software community there
[06:14] <mako> in free houses
[06:15] <mako> got that everyone? we're all moving to detroit.. fuck rent
[06:15] <whiprush> live in houses like in fight club
[06:15] <whiprush> sounds great!
[06:15] <mako> yeah man :)
[06:16] <whiprush> I am jack's buildd, I keep jack up all night.
[06:16] <mako> whiprush: alright then.. i'm really tired.. but i'm working on traffic all tomorrow so just poke me and i'll tag a new archive and dump it somewhere
[06:16] <whiprush> is this u-t template available anywhere?
[06:17] <whiprush> some xml build thing?
[06:17] <mako> yeah, it's a crazy xml build-system
[06:17] <mako> it's *ugly*
[06:17] <whiprush> k, I will poke. I'll probably drag another guy to work on this with me.
[06:17] <whiprush> oh yeah, that will rule.
[06:17] <mako> xml + perl + lots and lots of xslt
[06:17] <mako> it's rough
[06:17] <mako> i've been slowly improveing it
[06:18] <whiprush> do all the kernel-cousins use it?
[06:18] <mako> yes
[06:18] <whiprush> k
[06:18] <mako> the good news is that KT upstream is super responsive and a good friend of mine
[06:18] <whiprush> alright, I'll ping via email tomorrow or so
[06:18] <whiprush> oh ok, so they are all centralized
[06:18] <mako> AND, he's totally into arch :)
[06:18] <whiprush> I thought it was some kind of mad xml template gone wild.
[06:18] <mako> it is
[06:18] <mako> but it's mostly just html
[06:18] <whiprush> k
[06:19] <mako> everything within the <section> tags is basically pure xhtml
[06:19] <mako> lately, i've actually been writing it first in ReST and then doing rest2xhtml and then just editing the xhtml into the kt-xml
[06:19] <whiprush> where are you at btw? location wise?
[06:19] <mako> nyc
[06:20] <whiprush> k
[06:20] <bob2> oh man, you drank the rest koolaid?
[06:20] <mako> bob2: dude, TOTALLY
[06:20] <mako> bob2: my blog is *all* rest
[06:21] <mako> bob2: i had to switch severs to one that could actually process all that ReST on that page fast enough :)
[06:21] <bob2> hahahaha
[06:21] <mako> 20-40 rest documents.. DUDE
[06:22] <mako> and i'm *sure* pyblosxom called python, loaded docutils, etc 20-40 times
[06:22] <mako> *positive*
[06:23] <mako> whiprush: as far as i can tell. zb isn't work on the kt scripts very much upstream
[06:23] <mako> whiprush: which means i'm the center of development..
[06:23] <mako> whiprush: there are new some new features i want to add in terms of coding.. but i *really* don't want to it to be a mess of xml, xsl, perl AND python.. 
[06:24] <mako> whiprush: but the perl is pertty small, totally undocumented, and not always working very well
[06:24] <whiprush> I've got some friends who would help.
[06:24] <whiprush> but me myself, I'm just an info hound more than a coder.
[06:24] <mako> well, i can write python just fine
[06:24] <mako> perl too actually
[06:24] <whiprush> And I know plenty of perl monks if you need help
[06:24] <whiprush> some even looking for projects.
[06:24] <mako> but i think mark would have a heartattack if he knew i was writing perl on company time :)
[06:25] <mako> perl is actually my best language :)
[06:25] <whiprush> k, tomorrow I'll tell them all they just volunteered
[06:25] <whiprush> is there a KT homebase?
[06:25] <mako> but yeah.. 
[06:25] <whiprush> with all the code and whatnot?
[06:25] <mako> nope.. not yet
[06:25] <mako> i've been poking zb about it a bit.. but not in the last couple months
[06:26] <mako> which means we'll be it
[06:26] <mako> but really, the biggest help will just be writing traffic
[06:26] <mako> i'm about at the limit of the number of places i can track
[06:27] <mako> i have basically full coverage on english-language ubuntu lists and major meetings in the IRC channel
[06:27] <whiprush> yeah I'm a linkwhore.
[06:27] <whiprush> I think I can help with the forums especially
[06:27] <mako> that would be *huge*
[06:27] <mako> it would be really really great to get regular contributors to traffic
[06:27] <mako> it appears we will also get an italian translation soon
[06:28] <mako> which is pretty exciting
[06:28] <whiprush> I've been looking at some way to get involved for a while. So I need some gruntwork.
[06:28] <mako> i mean, with the forums since there's no coverage at all.. it's great
[06:29] <mako> you can simply just note threads you think are interesting
[06:29] <whiprush> yeah
[06:29] <mako> and then make a top 3-5 at the end of the week and there ya go
[06:29] <whiprush> a good 80%+ are just help requests
[06:29] <whiprush> but there's a good 10-15% that's pretty good summary-wise.
[06:29] <mako> right, i flagged *6* messages out of nearly 1000 on the last UT fro -users
[06:30] <mako> that was just users
[06:30] <mako> -devel and -doc and -news and -announce are all varying levels of more highly relevant
[06:30] <whiprush> yeah it's odd. My guess was most new users would come from debian or some other distro.
[06:30] <whiprush> I hadn't anticipated the sheer amount of brand new users.
[06:31] <mako> did you see we won some recognition as "best community"
[06:31] <mako> the forums did!
[06:31] <whiprush> On Ars.
[06:31] <whiprush> why else would I be here? :p
[06:31] <mako> ah, ok :)
[06:31] <mako> i don't write for ars :)
[06:31] <whiprush> heh
[06:32] <whiprush> jdub invited me around sounder 4 or 5 iirc. So by the time it was out I had the hype machine in full force.
[06:33] <whiprush> do you follow a schedule?
[06:33] <whiprush> for ut I mean
[06:34] <mako> yeah, the conference screwed me up a bit
[06:34] <mako> and the shipment of cds
[06:34] <mako> i should be caught up by the end of the week
[06:34] <whiprush> yeah I was kind of following it, then noticed the conference blew everything up
[06:34] <mako> pre-december
[06:35] <whiprush> yeah just give me deadlines and I should be set. I check the forums probably 10-15 times a day at least.
[06:35] <whiprush> plus a guy or two on the west coast that can cover me when I sleep. It could rule.
[06:35] <mako> i summarized every thread from the week previously (ending friday) with no additional traffic by the time i look monday
[06:35] <mako> the idea is, i give things 2-3 days to cool off
[06:36] <mako> so i only summarized threads that were really dead
[06:36] <mako> but you can do it however you want for the forums
[06:36] <mako> mdz had asked me to switch things around a bit so i put UT on tuesday of the week
[06:36] <whiprush> well, I've noticed a certain "style" for -cousins ...
[06:36] <mako> which i'm ok with
[06:37] <whiprush> k I'm off to bed, I'll email you tomorrow so we can get some arch love going.
[06:37] <mako> whiprush: msg me on irc if youre around
[06:37] <whiprush> okey
[06:37] <mako> whiprush: i only check canonical mail 1-2 times a day usually
[06:38] <whiprush> k, I log this channel so just holler at me likewise
[07:22] <jdub> mako: ut has weird encoding b0rkage
[07:26] <lamont> jdub: he was bitching about that earlier
[07:26] <whiprush> jdub: I've got some ideas about this "just a desktop distro" thing. Posting on -devel in a few minutes.
[07:29] <jdub> whiprush: cool, ta.
[07:30] <jdub> whiprush: if it involves making our desktop TOTALLY SUCK, here's my "no" response in advance. :-)
[07:30] <whiprush> no no. 
[07:30] <whiprush> just some observations
[07:30] <whiprush> I noted it this evening actually at the bar.
[07:30] <whiprush> I told all my friends what they thought of ubuntu as a server distro
[07:31] <whiprush> 6 of them where like "ummmm, never even considered it."
[07:32] <jdub> wait a sec
[07:32] <jdub> that's evidence of a problem
[07:32] <jdub> not a solution!
[07:32] <jdub> we're being tricked
[07:32] <whiprush> I'm writing
[07:32] <whiprush> sec sec
[07:32] <jdub> hrm
[07:33] <jdub> so now i can log in to messenger with gaim but not messenger itself
[08:03] <plovs> jdub what is the name of the new frontend to synaptic?
[08:09] <fabbione> morning
[08:13] <jdub> plovs: the application installer? gnome-app-install?
[08:16] <fabbione> lamont: you around?
[08:17] <fabbione> lamont: i installed the translation strip thingy on the sparc buildd... 
[08:17] <fabbione> it seems to work fine..
[08:17] <fabbione> i will anyway check later with pitti
[08:18] <plovs> jdub: i am running warty at the moment, so I can't see, what is the name gnome-app-install shows in the menu and title-bar (for the docs)? gnome-app-install is kind of ugly as a name
[08:21] <jdub> that's just the package/binary name
[08:21] <jdub> "Add/Remove Programs"
[08:22] <jdub> the title bar says "Application Installer"
[08:22] <jdub> but that's what it is currently, and those are bugs :)
[08:24] <plovs> jdub: ok, then i'll just write REPLACEME for now, thanks!
[08:33] <fabbione> lamont: i can't chroot on hppa...
[08:34] <fabbione> Executing shell in 'sid' chroot.
[08:34] <fabbione> Unknown id: fabbione
[08:34] <fabbione> dchroot: Child exited non-zero.
[08:34] <fabbione> dchroot: Operation failed.
[08:50] <fabbione> elmo: -su: /dev/null: Permission denied
[08:50] <fabbione> davis hoary chroot...
[08:50] <fabbione> if you updated the chroot please check udev...
[09:27] <fabbione> mjg59: can u push me the swsusp O whatever patch please?
[09:28] <mjg59> fabbione: Urgh. Sure - I haven't slept yet, so it may have to wait for a bit :)
[09:29] <mjg59> Need to get this report finished within the next hour or so
[09:31] <fabbione> mjg59: ok.. thanks..
[09:31] <fabbione> i am not in complete rush...
[09:31] <fabbione> i stil have hmmm 200 and more bk patches to review....
[09:31] <fabbione> and some chroots are broken so i can't test compilation
[09:43] <fabbione> BAH
[09:43] <fabbione> misdn is dead upstream...
[09:54] <fabbione> WOW there is actually an update!
[09:57] <fabbione> ogra, mvo: can you send me the lsmod when you try to load the fritz driver?
[10:00] <ogra> fabbione: mail sent....sorry i'm in a hurry.....
[10:01] <fabbione> ogra: thanks, np
[10:16] <daniels> good god.  three or four days into my archive rsync, and I'm up to multiverse (and this is excluding amd64)
[10:17] <fabbione> ehehhe
[10:22] <Kamion> mdz,lamont: my outgoing mail doesn't work very late at night, 'cos I smarthost through chiark and chiark's MTA stops accepting mail during backups
[10:23] <Kamion> mdz,lamont: you should have the mail now, though
[10:23] <daniels> Kamion: Irritated.
[10:26] <Kamion> daniels: that applies more to the rest of the Internet than it does to systems on chiark's VPN :)
[10:27] <pitti> morning
[10:27] <cartman> daniels: any ETA for new X.org upload. And yes I am impatient ;-)
[10:27] <daniels> Kamion: heh :)
[10:27] <daniels> cartman: sometime tonight -- I'm just cleaning up a couple of bits now
[10:28] <cartman> daniels: is it X.org cvs or branch?
[10:28] <daniels> cartman: 6.8 branch
[10:28] <cartman> better than nothing
[10:28] <cartman> Composite is too crashy
[10:28] <daniels> the branch doesn't fix composite being crashy, I'm afraid
[10:29] <daniels> but neither does HEAD
[10:29] <cartman> well at least my keyboard patch will be in
[10:29] <daniels> there's virtually nothing on HEAD aside from a) patches from Ubuntu I've committed but not got on the branch, b) patches from Fedora committed but not on branch that we have anyway, c) minor tweaks that don't affect us
[10:29] <cartman> okies
[10:41] <fabbione> who was asking about sparc framebuffer a couple of days ago?
[10:41] <fabbione> crimsun: was it you?
[10:41] <Xof> I've heard that ubuntu maintainers are having difficulty with sbcl (which would unblock a wodge of cl-foo dependencies).  Is this right?
[10:42] <Xof> (I am upstream for sbcl)
[10:42] <fabbione> Hi Xof
[10:43] <daniels> Xof: i believe so
[10:43] <fabbione> do you happen to know what kind of problems?
[10:43] <Xof> trouble building it, and also trouble getting amd64 working
[10:43] <daniels> something about too many predicates?
[10:43] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/s/sbcl/1:0.8.18-1/sbcl_1:0.8.18-1_20041230-0411-i386-failed
[10:43] <fabbione> Xof: that's the most recent build-log
[10:44] <fabbione> one dir up and you can see other logs as well
[10:44] <Xof> fabbione: that's impressive.  If you'd asked me before, I'd have said that wasn't possible :)
[10:45] <fabbione> mvo, ogra: i am build a new avfritz module with some extra debugging info...
[10:45] <fabbione> Xof: ehehe
[10:45] <fabbione> well the dir up has other arches ;)
[10:46] <fabbione> powerpc fails in a differnt way..
[10:46] <fabbione> so it's worth to look at it
[10:46] <ogra> fabbione: fine :) tell me if its ready for downlad anywhere (i think just exchanging the .ko should be fine)
[10:46] <Xof> is there something screwy with the build environment?  Insanely small ulimits or something?  Weird kernel memory maps?
[10:46] <fabbione> ogra: it should.. yes
[10:47] <fabbione> Xof: the buildd have no ulimits
[10:47] <fabbione> Xof: and nothing like strange memory mapping...
[10:47] <fabbione> just plain vanilla kernels + security fixes...
[10:47] <daniels> elmo: do we have a working i386 chroot on concordia?
[10:48] <Xof> and how certain are you about the hardware?  (sbcl building is better at finding bad hardware than kernel compiles or gcc compiles)
[10:48] <fabbione> Xof: in any case i suggest to show up in 6/8 hours from now...
[10:48] <fabbione> when lamont is here...
[10:48] <fabbione> Xof: well.. they builded a few 1000K packages...
[10:48] <fabbione> so i guess they are reliable
[10:49] <Xof> OK.  I'll hang on in here
[10:49] <fabbione> Xof: lamont is our buildd admin
[10:49] <fabbione> and he can for sure give you more info that i can
[10:49] <pitti> lifeless: here
[10:49] <pitti> lifeless: ?
[10:49] <fabbione> pitti: a bunch of packages have been built with the translation strip thingy
[10:49] <pitti> fabbione: cool, everything went well?
[10:50] <fabbione> pitti: i think so...
[10:50] <fabbione> do you want the list to check?
[10:50] <fabbione> you can debdiff on people in my home/public_html/sparc
[10:50] <pitti> fabbione: if they don't contain *.mo files any more in /usr/share/locale, then everything is alright
[10:50] <pitti> fabbione: yes, I'll do that against previous versions
[10:50] <fabbione> pitti: i am not sure which of them should have .mo files generally
[10:51] <pitti> fabbione: do you have the previous version around there, too?
[10:51] <pitti> fabbione: can you send me a list of recently built packages?
[10:51] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. get some: evolution-data-server, gdm, gtk, hal, libgphoto, nasm, tetex-bin tiff, tspc
[10:51] <fabbione> pitti: yes.. there is the entire build of sparc from day0 to now
[10:52] <fabbione> i think gdm has .mo files..
[10:52] <pitti> fabbione: looks perfect
[10:53] <fabbione> 2964 -rw-r--r--    1 fabbione warthogs  3028614 Dec 29 05:33 gdm_2.6.0.6-0ubuntu2_sparc.deb
[10:53] <fabbione> 1328 -rw-r--r--    1 fabbione warthogs  1354038 Jan  5 08:23 gdm_2.6.0.6-0ubuntu3_sparc.deb
[10:53] <bob2> pitti: lifeless is out a-drinking
[10:53] <pitti> fabbione: i debdiffed these two
[10:53] <fabbione> did we really strip THAT much?
[10:53] <pitti> oh, I don't think so
[10:53] <pitti> or?
[10:53] <fabbione> almost 50% of the gz is WAY too much
[10:53] <pitti> fabbione: debdiff says only the mo files are away
[10:53] <fabbione> than.. that's it
[10:54] <fabbione> pitti: want to check for file sizes as well?
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: my gdm mo files are 5.2 MB
[10:54] <fabbione> that makes sence
[10:54] <fabbione> 1.5M compressed...
[10:55] <pitti> fabbione: cool, this really gains much
[10:56] <daniels> fabbione: if you have the resources space, could you please grab xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu9* from ~daniels/xorg on either concordia or davis, and give it a spin 'round sparc?
[10:56] <fabbione> daniels: what did you mess up this time? ;)
[10:56] <daniels> fabbione: heh :) just the usual updates
[10:57] <daniels> fabbione: including a complete resync back with XSF, a couple of new patches for XKB and stuff, a small loader tweak, etc
[10:57] <daniels> the debian sync sucked
[10:57] <daniels> remind me not to get that backlogged again
[10:57] <fabbione> daniels: btw.. Overfiend was doing a dist-upgrade yesterday
[10:57] <fabbione> that's why it was so slow
[10:58] <fabbione> daniels: anyway i will build in a few minutes..
[10:58] <fabbione> the buildd is idling atm
[10:58] <daniels> fabb	oh, heh
[10:58] <daniels> fabbione: cool, cheers
[10:58] <daniels> fabbione: hold on, isn't necrotic supposed to be in a data centre or something?
[10:58] <daniels> i thought redwald was local and necrotic was remote
[10:58] <fabbione> daniels: yes and?
[10:59] <fabbione> he still did a dist-upgrade...
[10:59] <crimsun> fabbione: hmm, sparc? no. (I only have x86 unfortunately.)
[10:59] <daniels> fabbione: i just thought it would have a bit more bandwidth if it was colocated or such
[10:59] <fabbione> crimsun: than it wasn't you.. sorry
[10:59] <crimsun> np
[10:59] <fabbione> daniels: it wasn't a bw problem.. 
[11:00] <fabbione> it was choaking on the cpu/ram
[11:00] <bob2> fabbione: how fast is your sparc buildd?
[11:00] <daniels> fabbione: oh, right
[11:00] <fabbione> bob2: enough to keep up main...
[11:00] <daniels> elmo: could I please get rman in halley's hoary chroot, and screen either in it, out of it, or both?
[11:01] <fabbione> bob2: i will start building universe once i can free resources to manage the archive locally
[11:01] <Treenaks> what is it with people and their obsession with "firewalls"
[11:03] <bob2> omg lolz I have open portz!11
[11:05] <Treenaks> bob2: yeah like that
[11:05] <Treenaks> "I'm not stealthed!!!!11111oneone
[11:07] <daniels> SHIELDS UP
[11:08] <pitti> Morning seb128 
[11:08] <seb128> hello
[11:09] <pitti> Hi carlos, my friend
[11:10] <pitti> carlos: yesterday night, when I tried to fall asleep I realized a reasonably big problem
[11:10] <carlos> pitti: hi!
[11:10] <carlos> how was the meeting?
[11:10] <pitti> carlos: loooong
[11:10] <seb128> hey carlos 
[11:10] <pitti> carlos: but pretty good otherwise
[11:10] <carlos> seb128: hey seb!, happy new year!
[11:10] <carlos> pitti: just tell me ;-)
[11:10] <pitti> I thought about how to get our translations into rosetta
[11:10] <Keybuk> bob2: "glxgears is not an intrusion-detection system"
[11:10] <bob2> hahahaha
[11:10] <seb128> carlos: oh yeah, happy 2005 year :)
[11:11] <daniels> ... no, it's not ...
[11:11] <pitti> carlos: can you automatically import all hoary packages into rosetta now? or soon?
[11:11] <haggai> Keybuk: uh, I meant hct not hcf in my mail :)
[11:11] <carlos> pitti: I have a script to do it
[11:11] <carlos> pitti: so don't worry
[11:11] <pitti> carlos: do you import po files from source packages or mo files from debs?
[11:11] <carlos> It's not finished to import the whole archive, but will be on time
[11:11] <carlos> dude, forget the .mo files
[11:12] <pitti> carlos: we need to import all packages really soon now
[11:12] <carlos> pitti: I told you that they don't work as you think
[11:12] <pitti> carlos: dude, the mo files would be the best for this :-)
[11:12] <carlos> pitti: no, because you lose information
[11:12] <pitti> carlos: the problem is that too many packages _patch_ po files 
[11:12] <carlos> pitti: comments, headers, code references, etc...
[11:12] <carlos> pitti: that's why the script is not finised
[11:12] <pitti> carlos: so if you only look at the source package and get the po files, you get wrong data
[11:12] <carlos> finished
[11:13] <carlos> pitti: at this moment the cdbs packages are imported with all patches applied
[11:13] <pitti> ah, so you try to apply patches before copying the pos?
[11:13] <carlos> yeag
[11:13] <Keybuk> haggai: I guessed :)
[11:13] <carlos> yeah
[11:13] <daniels> elmo: if you could fix davis's hoary chroot too, that'd be fantastic.  /dev/null being read-only kind of kills the build a little. :P
[11:13] <pitti> carlos: and dpatch/dbs/other solutions?
[11:13] <carlos> pitti: I'm importing po files with patches applied and po files for the deb templates
[11:13] <daniels> (itmt, anyone with a powerpc who wants to try an xorg build on hoary, please grab the files out of davis:~daniels/xorg)
[11:13] <daniels> dinnertime now
[11:13] <carlos> pitti: need to look at those, see how they work and fix my script
[11:13] <pitti> carlos: okay, fine
[11:14] <pitti> carlos: yesterday it was proposed to get the mo files from the autobuilders and make translation debs of them
[11:14] <pitti> carlos: but that's not possible since we cannot rebuild the whole archive 
[11:14] <carlos> pitti: if you want good translations, forget the .mo files
[11:15] <pitti> carlos: this was only meant as an intermediate hack until rosetta is finished
[11:15] <pitti> carlos: when do you think rosetta has all packages and is ready for nightly automatic deployment?
[11:15] <carlos> pitti: Mark asked us to import the whole archive as soon as Hoary freezes
[11:15] <pitti> carlos: that's too late
[11:15] <carlos> so you need it _now_
[11:15] <pitti> carlos: at the point hoary freezes I need to have the whole structure ready
[11:16] <pitti> carlos: mdz asked me to have everything ready by Feb 1
[11:16] <pitti> carlos: I need some time to develop the deb building
[11:16] <carlos> ok
[11:16] <pitti> carlos: so interface-wise, I can expect a ZIP file of updated po files?
[11:17] <carlos> pitti: I need to talk with daf about it
[11:17] <carlos> but yes, I think that will be the final solution
[11:17] <pitti> carlos: I would just like to start thinking (and coding) the deb creation
[11:18] <carlos> ok
[11:18] <pitti> carlos: so I can expect something along "here is a ZIP file with po files newer than the given timestamp"?
[11:18] <carlos> yes
[11:18] <pitti> carlos: cool
[11:18] <carlos> but as I said, I need to confirm it with daf
[11:18] <pitti> carlos: btw, I don't really need to know which package they belong to
[11:19] <pitti> carlos: because we ship a big monolithic deb anyway
[11:19] <pitti> carlos: how do you store the po files?
[11:19] <fabbione> gmmmm
[11:19] <pitti> carlos: i. e. how are they named?
[11:19] <fabbione> well i guess i will keep stripping packages
[11:20] <pitti> carlos: are they product/de.po or product_de.po or how?
[11:20] <carlos> pitti: in fact... I think I could try to give you a set of .mo files so you don't need to compile them
[11:20] <fabbione> until sparc will not hit archive there is no point in getting crazy
[11:20] <pitti> carlos: well, only if it is easy
[11:20] <pitti> carlos: I don't mind compiling them myself in the script
[11:20] <carlos> pitti: we do it already so it's the same give you a set of .mo files or a set of .po files
[11:20] <pitti> carlos: if it's already done, then mo is better, yes
[11:21] <pitti> carlos: you have one mo per product and per language, right?
[11:21] <carlos> pitti: right
[11:21] <pitti> carlos: do you store them as product/de.po or de/product.po?
[11:22] <carlos> pitti: it's stored inside a database, so I create them as you need them
[11:22] <pitti> ah
[11:22] <carlos> fabbione: what do you need then?
[11:22] <Kamion> I must go and talk to the d-i translation coordinator about how on earth to deal with keeping rosetta translations in sync
[11:22] <pitti> carlos: well, ideally I get de/product.mo
[11:22] <fabbione> carlos: nothing...
[11:22] <Kamion> (for which, obviously, I'll need po)
[11:22] <fabbione> carlos: i just enabled the first buildd to strip translations, if lamont didn't do it this night
[11:23] <carlos> pitti: not really. de/translation_domain.mo is what you need, believe me
[11:23] <pitti> carlos: right, I mean that
[11:23] <Kamion> fabbione: it doesn't strip translations from udebs, does it? <panic>
[11:23] <pitti> Kamion: ahem...
[11:23] <fabbione> Kamion: let me check...
[11:23] <Kamion> please make sure it doesn't :)
[11:23] <fabbione> i did build a few udebs
[11:23] <pitti> Kamion: it currently strips away all mo files in directories which have a DEBIAN subdir
[11:23] <Kamion> fuck
[11:24] <elmo> uh, WTF broke /dev/null?
[11:24] <fabbione> Mo.. not po
[11:24] <pitti> Kamion: how can I tell apart an udeb dir from a deb dir?
[11:24] <Kamion> I thought I mentioned that udebs weren't language-pack-able
[11:24] <fabbione> elmo: udev
[11:24] <pitti> Kamion: right, we strip _mo_ files, not _po_, if that makes a difference
[11:24] <Kamion> no, it doesn't
[11:24] <elmo> fabbione: this is a known bug?
[11:24] <fabbione> Kamion: is debootstrap udeb ok?
[11:24] <Kamion> debootstrap-udeb isn't translated
[11:24] <Kamion> try anna
[11:25] <fabbione> elmo: i experienced it only once inside the sparc chroot.. so i wasn't really sure it was just me
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: my current test for a debian package dir is the existance if DEBIAN/control
[11:25] <fabbione> Kamion: i don't have anna rebuilt yet...
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: how can I tell if this dir becomes an udev and skip it?
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: s/udev/udeb/
[11:25] <Keybuk> fabbione: is that on first-time udev installation?  or after boot?
[11:25] <Kamion> pitti: give me a second I'm trying to find the canonical method
[11:25] <fabbione> rootskel? no... archive-copier?
[11:25] <Kamion> neither
[11:25] <Kamion> main-menu?
[11:25] <pitti> carlos: okay, fine for me then. 
[11:26] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry i don't have any than...
[11:26] <pitti> carlos: then I build a script expecting a bunch of <LANG>/<DOMAIN>.mo files
[11:26] <fabbione> Kamion: with the new setting i did build:
[11:26] <carlos> pitti: as soon as I prepare a small document with your requirements and talk with daf I will tell you the status of your request
[11:26] <pitti> carlos: thanks
[11:26] <Kamion> pitti: you can't tell reliably from just the build tree
[11:26] <pitti> carlos: shall I write this small text smipped
[11:27] <fabbione> archive-copier, busybox-cvs, console-tools, cupsys, d-i, openssh, rootskel
[11:27] <pitti> carlos: snippet, I mean
[11:27] <fabbione> Keybuk: first time installation afaict
[11:27] <pitti> Kamion: so I have to lookup the directory name and grep it out of debian/control?
[11:27] <elmo> okay, why would a device be busy if fuser and lsof can't find anything using it?
[11:27] <Kamion> you can't get it reliably from debian/control either
[11:27] <elmo> err, device, directory
[11:27] <fabbione> Keybuk: like when you have a running system and you install udev for the first time.. permissions on some devices seems to be fuxked
[11:27] <pitti> elmo: something mounted into it?
[11:28] <carlos> pitti: as you want, I have it already in my xchat's logs
[11:28] <Kamion> you have to look for the filename being built
[11:28] <pitti> carlos: ah, ok
[11:28] <Kamion> and check for .udeb
[11:28] <Keybuk> fabbione: how recently?  udev certainly had real problems with that once-apon-a-time.  They're supposed to be fixed now though
[11:28] <elmo> pitti: anyway to check what?
[11:28] <Kamion> pitti: however, checking for 'Section: debian-installer' in DEBIAN/control would actually be a nearly-good-enough heuristic
[11:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think it is related to the last change Md did to udev in order not to have to reboot the machine at first install
[11:29] <Kamion> pitti: so yes, please exclude any build trees with Section: debian-installer in DEBIAN/control
[11:29] <pitti> Kamion: how do I find out the final deb file name?
[11:29] <fabbione> but again.. i am not sure 100%
[11:29] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I can implement that quickly
[11:29] <Kamion> pitti: you probably can't at the point when you're running pkgstriptranslations
[11:29] <pitti> fabbione: can you disable stripping for now?
[11:29] <fabbione> Kamion: nothing rings a bell out of that list?
[11:29] <pitti> Kamion: yes, that's the problem
[11:29] <Kamion> fabbione: none of those build translated udebs AFAIK
[11:29] <fabbione> pitti: yes i can... do i need to rebuild the packages that have been done already?
[11:29] <fabbione> Kamion: ok...
[11:29] <pitti> fabbione: probably?
[11:29] <Kamion> pitti: sorry for the last-minute alarm, I thought I'd brought this up
[11:30] <fabbione> pitti: you know.. you really suck? ;)
[11:30] <pitti> Kamion: thanks, about the right time
[11:30] <pitti> fabbione: yes, I know :-/
[11:30] <elmo> hmm, it only happened on davis, concordia is ok
[11:31] <fabbione> elmo: is davis fixed now?
[11:31] <elmo> fabbione: no, I think dev is bind mounted
[11:31] <fabbione> elmo: ok....
[11:32] <elmo> and I'd kind of like to figure out how/why udev broke the chroot
[11:32] <fabbione> daniels: xorg is building... i will let you know how it goes
[11:32] <Kamion> fabbione: out of those: archive-copier has no translations, busybox-cvs doesn't have .po files, console-tools cupsys debian-installer don't build any udebs, openssh doesn't install templates files in its udebs, and rootskel doesn't have .po files
[11:33] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry that i couldn't help more...
[11:34] <fabbione> but if you really want me to try i can do it manually
[11:34] <fabbione> but it would take you the same time as for me
[11:34] <Kamion> fabbione: it's ok, I was trying to say that none of those need to be rebuilt :)
[11:35] <fabbione> ogra, mvo: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/avmfritz.ko for 2.6.10
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: eheh ok thanks :-)
[11:35] <pitti> fabbione: seems to be my lucky day :-)
[11:35] <fabbione> it only adds some extra printk for debugging.. it doesn't fix anything..
[11:35] <elmo> aha, /dev/pts and /dev/shm were also bind mounted
[11:35] <fabbione> ogra, mvo: dmesg is welcome
[11:36] <fabbione> ogra, mvo: oh btw.. ASAP thanks ;)
[11:37] <elmo> why the heck didn't this kill everything else
[11:38] <Mithrandir> fabbione: is that the Fritz! DSL driver thingy?
[11:39] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes
[11:39] <fabbione> ISDN..
[11:39] <fabbione> DSL is luxury ;)
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ISDN isn't interesting, I want the DSL one. :P
[11:39] <Mithrandir> for ISDN, I use hardware routers.
[11:39] <fabbione> Mithrandir: so do i...
[11:39] <fabbione> c801 ;)
[11:40] <fabbione> with ipv6 support
[11:41] <Mithrandir> the 801 has ipv6 support?
[11:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: with proper IOS.. yes
[11:41] <Mithrandir> nice
[11:41] <fabbione> too bad it doesn't support BGP
[11:41] <fabbione> or ospf iirc
[11:41] <Mithrandir> I only have a large pile of 7xx routers
[11:41] <fabbione> but rip is ok ;)
[11:42] <fabbione> oh yeah.. i gave the 7xx to my friends in italy
[11:42] <Mithrandir> they're horrible to configure, though
[11:43] <bob2> fabbione: oh, woo, sleep patch. thanks!
[11:43] <fabbione> bob2: given that it compiles on 2.6.10
[11:43] <fabbione> a lot of bits from that patch have been merged upstream or so..
[11:44] <bob2> ah, right
[11:44] <fabbione> and again.. for me ppc is "it compiles.. it's ready for stable release"
[11:44] <bob2> hah
[11:45] <elmo> anyway, davis is fixed now
[11:45] <fabbione> elmo: thanks dude
[11:46] <fabbione> it adds a Build-Dep on cpp...
[11:46] <fabbione> but who cares..
[11:46] <elmo> cpp is build-essential?
[11:47] <fabbione> elmo: it wasn't with zgrep cpp /usr/share/doc/build-essential/*
[11:47] <pitti> fabbione: yep, build-essential depends on gcc depends on cpp
[11:47] <fabbione> ok
[11:47] <fabbione> i can kill it...
[11:47] <fabbione> someone should FILE ANOTHER BUG ON DPATCH MAN PAGE!
[11:47] <fabbione> DPATCH MUST DIE!
[11:48] <pitti> yeah
[11:48] <pitti> fabbione: why do you use it anyway?
[11:48] <fabbione> if i had 48 hours a day i would have redone the kernel patcka...
[11:48] <fabbione> package
[11:48] <fabbione> pitti: because i found the kernel in that way already...
[11:48] <fabbione> you know.. i was only supposed to do 2.6.8 -> 2.6.9 transition
[11:49] <azeem> famous last words
[11:49] <pitti> fabbione: I know, is it very hard to convert to quilt or simple patch?
[11:49] <fabbione> azeem: exactly
[11:49] <fabbione> pitti: it's a royal pain..
[11:49] <pitti> fabbione: there is this monolithic patch building thingy
[11:49] <fabbione> i was considering dbs...
[11:49] <pitti> fabbione: this is probably the harder part to convert, right?
[11:49] <fabbione> pitti: exactly..
[11:50] <pitti> fabbione: oh, dbs could be nice for the kernel
[11:50] <fabbione> so i guess we will survive to it for hoary
[11:50] <fabbione> and if i will still maintain the kernel after i will spend a few days to convert it to something sane
[11:51] <pitti> fabbione, Kamion: I uploaded version 2 of pkgstriptranslations which now ignores packages in the debian-installer section
[11:51] <Mithrandir> the OOo patch system is _really_ nice.
[11:51] <pitti> fabbione: and I updated the seeds so that the package should now be in main
[11:51] <fabbione> pitti: out of curiosity.. how do you determine debian-install section?
[11:51] <fabbione> +er
[11:52] <pitti> fabbione: I read ^Section: from <build-directory>/DEBIAN/control
[11:52] <pitti> fabbione: that's what Kamion suggested
[11:53] <fabbione> HMMM
[11:53] <pitti> fabbione: I tested it with the udev package (which also produves an udeb)
[11:53] <pitti> fabbione: what's wrong with that?
[11:53] <fabbione> Kamion: are we sure that all the udebs have these information in place and not from the overrides?
[11:57] <fabbione> pitti, Kamion: given that i didn't fuck up anything in my ipv6 stats: http://debdev.fabbione.net/cgi-bin/getlist?5+nopri+nosec
[11:57] <fabbione> these are packages that have no Section and Priority entry.
[11:57] <fabbione> but cross checking a couple of them should be easy
[11:58] <Kamion> fabbione: I think most of them do, but the ones that aren't are easily fixed
[11:59] <Kamion> fabbione: more importantly I know of no better test at that point in the build :-/
[11:59] <pitti> fabbione: do you know of any better way to detect an udeb before it is actually built with dpkg-builddeb?
[11:59] <fabbione> Kamion: yup.. it was just a warning
[11:59] <fabbione> pitti: no. Kamion is our god here.
[11:59] <fabbione> AVE O SOMMO KAMION
[12:00] <pitti> Kamion: should a package break because of that, it shouldn't be too hard to upload another one with an explicit Section, right?
[12:00] <pitti> Kamion: this would trigger rebuilding and everything should be okay afterwards again
[12:00] <Kamion> 'XC-Package-Type: udeb' is sometimes used in newer packages, but that field only shows up in debian/control and the .changes file, not DEBIAN/control
[12:00] <Kamion> pitti: right, exactly
[12:00] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/debian/debian-installer/trunk/debian-installer/packages
[12:00] <Kamion> >$ find -path \*/debian/control | xargs grep -L ^Section:
[12:00] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/debian/debian-installer/trunk/debian-installer/packages
[12:00] <Kamion> >$
[12:00] <Kamion> looks good to me
[12:00] <Kamion> er, oops
[12:00] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/debian/debian-installer/trunk/debian-installer/packages
[12:01] <Kamion> >$ find -path \*/debian/control | xargs grep -L '^Section: debian-installer'
[12:01] <Kamion> ./kernel/kernel-wedge/debian/control
[12:01] <Kamion> those two are build helpers
[12:01] <Kamion> ./packages-build/debian/control
[12:01] <Kamion> there'll be other udebs too, of course
[12:01] <pitti> Kamion: udev-udeb's debian/control has no sign of it being an udeb
[12:01] <pitti> Kamion: however, it has a proper section
[12:02] <Kamion> how do you mean, no sign?
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: oops, sorry
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: it has this XC-Package-Type field
[12:02] <Kamion> indeed, most udebs are that way
[12:02] <Kamion> not all, though
[12:02] <Kamion> none of them have any *more* sign than udev-udeb does
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: I can parse debain/control in addition, if necessary
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: debian/control is a little more complicated than DEBIAN/control because I have multiple packages
[12:03] <Kamion> pitti: I think it's probably ok as it is; I'm comfortable I can catch any exceptions
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: but it shuold be possible
[12:04] <pitti> Kamion: okay
[12:04] <fabbione> COOL the dpatch per arch is broken on the only arch on which i need it!
[12:05] <fabbione> bah.. food time
[12:05] <fabbione> mvo_: let's see if this is better
[12:06] <mvo_> fabbione: no, not really. but a lot cleaner :p
[12:07] <Kamion> <cjwatson@riva /mirror/debian>$ for x in `zcat dists/unstable/main/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages.gz | grep-dctrl -nsFilename ''`; do dpkg -f "$x" Section; done | grep -vx debian-installer
[12:07] <Kamion> <cjwatson@riva /mirror/debian>$
[12:07] <Kamion> pitti: looks good
[12:07] <Treenaks> mvo_: imagine Reservoir Dogs
[12:07] <Kamion> same goes for hoary/i386
[12:08] <pitti> neat
[12:13] <Kamion> yeah, haven't quite kicked that habit yet
[12:13] <Mithrandir> it's a keypress less and a lot more readable. :)
[12:13] <Mithrandir> (` being dead here)
[12:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: could you take a look at mailman?
[12:14] <carlos> pitti: I just sent the mail about your request with CC to you, could you review it in case I forgot anything?
[12:14] <Keybuk> for vs. xargs, discuss.
[12:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, it's on my list for today.
[12:15] <pitti> carlos: I do
[12:15] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[12:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ah, $() is a keypress more for me, so ...
[12:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's more of a habit than anything else, though
[12:16] <Kamion> actually two keypresses, or four if I have to press shift separately for each one
[12:17] <Mithrandir> shift isn't a keypress :P
[12:17] <Mithrandir> I tend to have a finger above shift anyhow :)
[12:20] <pitti> carlos: fine by me
[12:20] <pitti> carlos: do we also have a possibility to create a base package?
[12:20] <pitti> carlos: i. e. get a file of _all_ translations? (ugh)
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: or can I just use timestamp 19700101 for that?
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: ^ this seems to be too much overhead for this purpose
[12:26] <fabbione> mvo_: can you test the driver please?
[12:27] <mvo_> fabbione: sure
[12:28] <Kamion> hm, I forgot to put supported+build-depends rather than supported on the DVD image
[12:28] <fabbione> mvo_: no no..
[12:28] <mvo_> fabbione: ?
[12:28] <fabbione> just the driver from people.u.c
 ogra, mvo: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/avmfritz.ko for
[12:29] <fabbione>            2.6.10
 it only adds some extra printk for debugging.. it doesn't fix
[12:29] <fabbione>            anything..
 ogra, mvo: dmesg is welcome
[12:29] <fabbione> just try that one..
[12:29] <fabbione> it will help me to track the bug down
[12:29] <fabbione> there is no need to download a kernel
[12:29] <fabbione> because there is no new kernel
[12:29] <ogra> great....i can test it tonight (am at the office currently)
[12:29] <fabbione> that one is for 686 build
[12:29] <fabbione> ogra: ok thanks
[12:29] <mvo_> fabbione: ok, will do it now
[12:30] <fabbione> mvo_: ok.. 
[12:31] <fabbione> remember -> 686 <-
[12:31] <mvo_> fabbione: yep
[12:34] <carlos> pitti: the 19700101 think will work
[12:34] <carlos>  /s/think/thing/
[12:34] <pitti> carlos: it doesn't produce too much overhead? which could be avoided by another solution?
[12:34] <carlos> pitti: samething
[12:34] <pitti> carlos: exporting all pos don't require comparing timestamps and so
[12:35] <carlos> pitti: well, perhaps you could remove some sql queries
[12:35] <pitti> carlos: well, if it works, then it is probably okay
[12:35] <carlos> but I think it's not a big improvement
[12:35] <pitti> carlos: we do this only very seldom
[12:35] <pitti> carlos: I'm more concerned about people doing these queries maliciously to DoS the server
[12:36] <pitti> carlos: or google accidentially trying this over and over again
[12:36] <carlos> pitti: that url will be restricted by user + password
[12:36] <pitti> carlos: ah, cool
[12:36] <carlos> and we could restrict it to a concrete user + password so only people we want are able to do it
[12:37] <pitti> carlos: I should create a dedicated "export" account and use that in the auto deb builders
[12:37] <carlos> pitti: it's an option
[12:52] <seb128> elmo: libbonobo sync please
[01:10] <thom> seb128: um, why would my panel lose it's menus? (how do i debug this usefully?) pkilling gnome-panel or gnome-session doesn't help, and it was working earlier today with no changes
[01:11] <thom> (i also can't right click on the panel to add applets etc)
[01:11] <seb128> only the menu ? the rest of the panel/nautilus/... work ?
[01:11] <seb128> ok
[01:12] <thom> the bottom panel (ie, workspace switcher and app list) is fine
[01:12] <seb128> killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet drivemount_applet2
[01:12] <seb128> ?
[01:12] <seb128> weird
[01:12] <thom> yep, that fixed it
[01:12] <seb128> ok
[01:13] <thom> trashapplet and drivemount_applet2 aren't running
[01:13] <seb128> still #4794 ..
[01:13] <thom> ahr
[01:14] <seb128> BTW, you have already worked on the xscreensaver package ?
[01:15] <thom> a while ago, yes
[01:17] <seb128> #3042 #3044 need sombody to fix them, you are not interested in doing that by luck ? :p
[01:18] <thom> i'll have a look
[01:18] <seb128> thanks :)
[01:18] <seb128> elmo: gnome-gv sync please
[01:19] <thom> 3044 looks like a bit of a minefield
[01:20] <seb128> yeah ...
[01:20] <ogra> isnt that common with this bug reporter ?
[01:20] <Kamion> hm, I suppose I should cycle my arch archives
[01:20] <seb128> but 3042 would be nice to fix
[01:20] <Kamion> ogra: :-)
[01:21] <thom> ogra: a minefield is usually safer than said reporter's usual bug files
[01:23] <robtaylor> carlos: ping!
[01:23] <bob2> fgod msn is useless
[01:23] <bob2> I really cannot imagine designing a less useful chat protocol
[01:23] <carlos> robtaylor: pong!
[01:23] <robtaylor> carlos: well i recreated my mirror yesterday, 
[01:23] <robtaylor> http://sourcecontrol.net/~rtaylor/robtaylor@fastmail.fm--2004--accessd/
[01:24] <robtaylor> is .listing still missing?
[01:24] <bob2> god
[01:24] <robtaylor> i've got a sneaking suspicon i might need to recreate my main archive with -l too :/
[01:24] <robtaylor> bob2: whats bugging you?
[01:26] <robtaylor> carlos: make that, .listing seems to be missing to me...
[01:26] <robtaylor> and i definitly used -l when creating the mirror :(
[01:26] <carlos> robtaylor: no, don't think you need to recreate your archive, only the mirror...
[01:27] <carlos> robtaylor: http://sourcecontrol.net/~rtaylor/robtaylor@fastmail.fm--2004--accessd/.listing
[01:27] <carlos> it's there
[01:27] <carlos> apache is hidding it, that's all
[01:27] <robtaylor> carlos: ah good :)
[01:29] <robtaylor> well, there you go, test it out. i think i have a couple of uncommitted local mods at home i forgot about, but if you look in accessd/test you should get an idea for running it
[01:30] <seb128> elmo: gnome-pilot and gnome-pilot-conduits sync please
[01:30] <robtaylor> (the test code currently hardcodes my username and the uncommitted changes fix that)
[01:30] <bob2> "echo it sure does > =meta-info/http-blows" on the mirror
[01:30] <trulux> pitti, hey
[01:30] <robtaylor> might be good to get someone to do a new rev from cgvs of dbus, as my changes are now in
[01:31] <pitti> hi trulux 
[01:31] <trulux> pitti, http://wiki.debian-hardened.org/Development_layout_organization
[01:31] <seb128> elmo: and ghfaxviewer too :)
[01:32] <carlos> robtaylor: will look at it this weekend
[01:33] <carlos> robtaylor: good work 
[01:33] <carlos> :-)
[01:33] <robtaylor> carlos: thx :)
[01:35] <thom> seb128: although i guess we could wimp out and just provide xscreensaver-for-us; rss-glx-for-us; and then some more packages for the rest, and then have a screensavers metapackage
[01:37] <robtaylor> carlos: I'll try and build a hoary dbus package from current cvs tonight if i get the chance..
[01:39] <carlos> robtaylor: I think daniels said hoary's one is from CVS so it should get your changes soon, right?
[01:40] <thom> he was certainly planning to do so
[01:40] <carlos> will test it in my laptop
[01:40] <robtaylor> carlos: yep, whenever he does the next pull (my patch went in about 8 days after the last pull)
[01:41] <robtaylor> carlos: if your're on warty then just use my packages on sourcecontrol.net/~rtaylor
[01:41] <sjoerd> robtaylor: i'm preparing a new package for debian, so daniels will probably sync with that 
[01:41] <carlos> robtaylor: ok
[01:41] <robtaylor> sjoerd: cool :)
[01:42] <seb128> thom: yep, that's an idea
[01:43] <thom> not quite in the spirit of the thing, but close
[01:45] <robtaylor> sjoerd: will only python2.4 bindings be produced, or both 2.3 and 2.4?
[01:46] <sjoerd> robtaylor: for debian 2.3, for hoary is up to daniels
[01:48] <sjoerd> how's the accessd thingy going ?
[01:49] <lamont> good morning world
[01:52] <mvo_> ping haggai 
[01:53] <haggai> mvo_: pong
[01:53] <mvo_> haggai: do you have a idea about ubuntu #5020? 
[01:56] <haggai> mvo_: not without digging deeply.  We turned off the file picker by default in unstable because it has several problems
[01:56] <haggai> mvo_: so a merge from debian would solve it for now
[01:56] <mvo_> haggai: ok, thanks
[01:57] <ogra> mvo_: gnome-vfs probably needs the lo interface, could it be that firestarter bolcks this somehow ?
[01:58] <mvo_> ogra: that would be silly of firestarter. I got another report today about problems with the file-picker and he claims that he does not run any firewall software
[01:59] <haggai> mvo_: he claims he doesn't run firestarter, not any firewall software
[01:59] <ogra> mvo_: ah, ok, was just an idea....(i've seen weird FW software in my life ;) )
[01:59] <haggai> mvo_: he might still have a filewall
[01:59] <haggai> uh, firewall
[01:59] <mvo_> haggai: correct
[01:59] <ogra> lol
[01:59] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[01:59] <mvo_> I'll ask to be sure
[01:59] <fabbione> lamont: please read the scrollback...
[01:59] <fabbione> lamont: i can't access the chroot on hppa
[01:59] <fabbione> lamont: it complains that it can't find my id
[02:00] <thom> are we doing ubuntu/hppa now? :P
[02:00] <fabbione> thom: go back to test ia64 kernels please ;)
[02:00] <thom> fabbione: not at home :/
[02:00] <fabbione> thom: when you will be at home :)
[02:01] <fabbione> thom: the only sure thing is that they compile...
[02:01] <fabbione> that's all i know
[02:01] <thom> i won't have a connection at home until next week
[02:01] <lamont> fabbione: try now
[02:02] <fabbione> Executing shell in 'sid' chroot.
[02:02] <fabbione> crimsun: Authentication service cannot retrieve authentication info.
[02:02] <fabbione> (Ignored)
[02:02] <fabbione> ops
[02:02] <lamont> fabbione: the ia64 kernel in yesterday's daily build boots far enough to get to anna segv'ing...
[02:02] <fabbione> s/crimsun/su
[02:02] <haggai> mvo_: I'll write the workaround to the log
[02:02] <mvo_> haggai: that's nice, thanks a lot
[02:02] <fabbione> lamont: nice...
[02:03] <fabbione> for the kernel.. poor anna
[02:03] <lamont> fabbione: once you say 'dchroot' and it says 'can't retrieve auth info', say ls -lid /
[02:04] <Kamion> lamont: oh yes, is that box in a state where I can play with it now?
[02:04] <lamont> what's the inode of the root dir...
[02:04] <lamont> Kamion: sitting at a shell prompt with anna lying on the floor
[02:04] <fabbione> 2850829 drwxr-xr-x  20 root root 4096 Jan  4 15:16 /
[02:04] <lamont> fabbione: that'd be chrooted.
[02:05] <fabbione> lamont: yes.. i could see that.. without the inode :-)
[02:05] <fabbione> i was just reporting the warning
[02:05] <lamont> I bet it's pam related, or something.
[02:05] <fabbione> lamont: iirc elmo knows what it is
[02:06] <fabbione> did you configure shadow and stuff like that?
[02:06] <fabbione> if so.. is my account there too?
[02:06] <fabbione> i think that shadow on/off would do
[02:06] <fabbione> lamont: but i need to workaround yet another dpatch bug to have hppa in.
[02:07] <fabbione> lamont: since patch x arch is broken
[02:07] <lamont> ew
[02:07] <fabbione> i just figured with ppc...
[02:07] <fabbione> so i will need to do some blackmagic woodo to get it done
[02:29] <cartman> hmm anyone here working on KUbuntu?
[02:49] <lamont> fabbione: you around?
[02:50] <fabbione> yup
[02:50] <lamont> do you have an ipv6 enabled host with postfix 2.1.5-x installed on it
[02:50] <lamont> ?
[02:51] <fabbione> lamont: checking...
[02:51] <lamont> and could you see if 2.1.5-4 works in your environment, or just fails to deliver mail at all?
[02:51] <Treenaks> 2.1.5-x is hoary-current ?
[02:51] <lamont> yeag
[02:51] <fabbione> lamont: from debian or ubuntu?
[02:51] <Treenaks> works for me :)
[02:53] <Treenaks> works fine... I think this has to do with people who use CNAMEs or IPs as MXes
[02:53] <Treenaks> (which is b0rken)
[02:53] <lamont> stp.dias.ie. doesn't appear broken...
[02:55] <fabbione> lamont: checking with hoary...
[02:55] <Treenaks> Received: from localhost.localdomain (laptop.foodfight.org [IPv6:2001:960:70e:1:204:e2ff:fea5:d988] )                      
[02:55] <Treenaks>         (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))                                                       
[02:56] <Treenaks> works great..
[02:56] <lamont>  localhost.localdomain
[02:56] <fabbione> Treenaks: try to send a mail to something that doesn't have ipv6...
[02:56] <fabbione> i think that's the whole point
[02:56] <lamont> lamont@mmjgroup.com would fit that bil.
[02:56] <Treenaks> fabbione: ubuntu mailing lists work
[02:56] <lamont> bill.
[02:57] <fabbione> hmm
[02:58] <daniels> lamont: we've had weeeeird issues on fd.o
[02:58] <daniels> lamont: but that's mainly due to wildcard afaict
[02:58] <daniels> lamont: prometheus.infradead.org (IIRC -- the primary MX for infradead, in any case) is IPv6-only
[02:58] <daniels> lamont: and fd.o had a wildcard
[02:58] <daniels> lamont: so it would fail an A on the infradead.org MX, and end up delivering to localhost
[02:58] <daniels> creating a loop
[02:59] <lamont> interestingly, stp.dias.ie. has MX but no A
[02:59] <daniels> so I had to hardcode one of its IPv6 MXes in to the transport table
[02:59] <Treenaks> try mailing me at my "@treenaks.tk" address.. that's a wildcard MX
[02:59] <fabbione> BAH
[03:00] <mjt> what's the problem?
[03:00] <mjt> Hi Lamont! ;)
[03:00] <Treenaks> lamont: that's going to be hard :)
[03:01] <mjt> oh, I haven't played with ipv6 in postfix yet...
[03:01] <lamont> Treenaks: yeah,
[03:02] <Treenaks> lamont: (and I know, because I could give you this with one INSERT INTO probably ;))
[03:02] <lamont> and it's quite possible that I broke the ipv6 patch in 2.1.5, although that may not be it...
[03:03] <lamont> Treenaks: it's already taken?  I, um, need it for testing postfix.  yeah. that's it.
[03:04] <fabbione> lamont: i think you got a mail from me...
[03:04] <Treenaks> lamont: it's not yet taken, but I kind of like the steady amount of money my employer gives me every month
[03:04] <fabbione> but that one went out via my smarthost
[03:04] <lamont> gah.  looks to be PEBKAC
[03:04] <fabbione> PEBKAC?
[03:05] <Treenaks> fabbione: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC
[03:05] <mjt> "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair:
[03:05] <fabbione> ahh
[03:06] <fabbione> lamont: i did send you a second mail directly from an ipv6 host
[03:07] <fabbione> according to my logs it has been delivered correctly
[03:07] <lamont> fabbione: got it.
[03:07] <lamont> I was running down the list of things it could be (in their setup), you see....
[03:10] <Treenaks> lamont: what's their problem?
[03:10] <lamont> "I fixed the DNS and it now seems to be happy."
[03:11] <lamont> summary: "Postfix is horribly broken!!!" "oh wait, it was just our DNS.  never mind."
[03:16] <lamont> fabbione: on the hppa patch - it might be good to see what arch-indep patches there are, and see if they still need to be...  If you make a list, I'll pester.
[03:17] <fabbione> lamont: i need to make a workaround to apply patches per arch first...
[03:17] <fabbione> lamont: plus i don't understand why all this stuff is not pushed upstream
[03:18] <lamont> it's being pushed - they're manically working on things
[03:18] <lamont> the one you commented on yesterday was a gcc-3.3 workaround that may well not need to be there any more
[03:19] <fabbione> lamont: yeah... but tbh i am not that expert in gcc on hppa to be able to say that it is still required or not....
[03:19] <fabbione> i can make notes.. that's for sure..
[03:20] <lamont> fabbione: exactly - I was just gonna poke grant on that one... :-)
[03:21] <Kamion> is there an ia64 porting box in the LAN that I can compile stuff on?
[03:21] <fabbione> Kamion: halley
[03:21] <Kamion> thanks
[03:22] <daniels> Kamion: i'll fight you for halley
[03:22] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/xorg/arch/pristine% scp xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu9.diff.gz xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu9.dsc halley.ubuntu.com:xorg/
[03:23] <daniels> elmo: thanks for fixing davis and halley, btw
[03:25] <daniels> fabbione: btw, if you were building on sparc, you want to grab the sources again
[03:25] <daniels> the old one was, uh, a little broken
[03:25] <daniels> (wouldn't pass manifest)
[03:34] <fabbione> daniels: OH CHRIST
[03:34] <fabbione> it is still building and you already ask for a rebuild?
[03:34] <lamont> doko?
[03:34] <fabbione> are you serious?
[03:34] <daniels> well, you can sorta hack around it
[03:35] <fabbione> daniels: it's pointless to hack around...
[03:35] <daniels> once the install target's done, move koi8rxterm.1x and lxterm.1x to .1 in usr/X11R6/man/man1
[03:35] <daniels> then re-run binary, so you'll just work through the rest of the install
[03:35] <daniels> i've already fixed it locally
[03:35] <fabbione> daniels: where are the new sources?
[03:35] <fabbione> no i will just rebuild...
[03:36] <daniels> concordia/davis/halley
[03:36] <daniels> ~daniels/xorg
[03:36] <daniels> quicker to snarf from there than my home dsl
[03:36] <daniels> uplink is slow as hell
[03:36] <lamont> daniels: you don't know hell
[03:36] <daniels> lamont: sure I do
[03:38] <lamont> heh
[03:39] <fabbione> i will give hell to daniel if this upload will fuck sparc :-))))))
[03:39] <lamont> fabbione: but what would he do with it?
[03:40] <fabbione> hmmm good question...
[03:40] <fabbione> i have some ideas.. but i can't tell them here
[03:40] <daniels> fabbione: see, better you having to rebuild it than me totally breaking it, no? :)
[03:40] <fabbione> daniels: time you buy a sparc?
[03:47] <daniels> fabbione: i have a u5 under my desk
[03:47] <daniels> fabbione: my downstream is still totally saturated with everything else though
[03:48] <daniels> fabbione: i have a pegasos to upgrade from debian to hoary (only turned it on once), and the u5 to install
[03:48] <daniels> but both of those are lower priority than xorg and lrm, both of which I'm working on now ;)
[03:48] <fabbione> daniels: time to upgrade downstream? ;)
[03:48] <daniels> heh
[03:48] <robtaylor> sjoerd: ah, missed your message earlier, its seems to be going pretty well, written all the basics and one backend now..
[03:49] <mjt> btw, is there any help "wanted" for xorg? any outstanding probs?
[03:49] <daniels> FRIG.
[03:49] <robtaylor> sjoerd: next up i want to do a LDAP backend, but that requires a bit more knowledge of LDAP admin than i currently have :)
[03:50] <robtaylor> daniels: did you catch my poking earlier?
[03:50] <daniels> elmo: vim on halley pls
[03:50] <sjoerd> robtaylor: could you announce it somewhere :) 
[03:50] <daniels> robtaylor: can't say I did, sorry
[03:50] <daniels> mjt: not hugely, no
[03:50] <daniels> mjt: unless you want to bring the modular packages up to date ;)
[03:50] <sjoerd> robtaylor: i'm seeing the need for it on the hal list on a regular basis, so it would be nice if other people start looking at it i guess (and not starting with other solutions)
[03:51] <robtaylor> daniels: just requesting a new cvs pull on hoarys dbus packages for some new python binding stuff..
[03:51] <mjt> uh-oh... fsvo "want" ;)
[03:51] <robtaylor> sjoerd: Guess i should. i was kinda waiting for at least one other person to look at it and tell me its not crack yet :)
[03:52] <daniels> robtaylor: sure, won't happen hugely soon tho
[03:52] <robtaylor> daniels: np, just wanted to make sure it happens at some point :)
[03:53] <daniels> robtaylor: sure :)
[03:53] <daniels> poke me in a week if i haven't done it
[03:54] <vinsci> is the source for malone available somehwere?
[03:54] <robtaylor> sjoerd: are you familiar with the design? what sort of usages are you seeing?
[03:54] <robtaylor> daniels: sure :)
[03:55] <sjoerd> robtaylor: i've discussed it with carlos and pitti somewhat in mataro
[03:55] <robtaylor> sjoerd: cool
[03:56] <sjoerd> robtaylor: for stuff like powermanager (http://live.gnome.org/PowerManager) 
[03:57] <robtaylor> monkey power?!
[03:58] <robtaylor> right so powermanager would just make requests to accessd for authorisation, groovr
[04:01] <carlos> robtaylor: freedesktop is the right place to host it. Until that moment, we could use my personal server
[04:01] <carlos> see you later
[04:01] <robtaylor> carlos: later :)
[04:02] <Kamion> daniels: halley's hoary chroot has vim
[04:05] <mako> thom, elmo: i need apache utf8 love
[04:06] <sladen> echo AddCharset UTF-8 .html
[04:06] <sladen> echo AddCharset UTF-8 .html > .htaccess
[04:07] <Treenaks> AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 ?
[04:08] <daniels> carlos: what do you want to put on fd.o?
[04:10] <daniels> fabbione: also, edit debian/xterm.install and s/*.1x/*.1/, sorry
[04:20] <Kamion> hm, I wonder if I can squeeze a man-db fix for Turkish in under the UVF
[04:21] <mjt> xorg build fails at the very end, telling the manifest filelist is too different...
[04:23] <thom> mako: um, where, when, and why?
[04:24] <ogra> Kamion: why should this be affected by UVF... as long as you dont change the whole man-db to a new version its only a patch or not ?
[04:24] <Kamion> "upstream" => Debian
[04:24] <mako> thom: i switched traffic to utf-8.. apache on rookery seems to still be serving it as iso-8859-1
[04:24] <Kamion> ogra: the point is that automatic syncs from Debian stop at UVF
[04:24] <thom> yes.
[04:24] <mako> thom: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/
[04:24] <Kamion> if I wait until after UVF I have to go to more effort to get the fix through :P
[04:25] <ogra> Kamion: but manually is still possible ?
[04:25] <Kamion> yes
[04:25] <mako> thom: and aparently, i can't .htaccess the problem away
[04:25] <thom> nope
[04:25] <mako> so.. can i get at least the default charset for my homedir set to utf-8?
[04:25] <Kamion> also on principle I don't want to have to branch man-db for Ubuntu, because I've used it as an example of the sort of package that shouldn't need to be branched :)
[04:25] <ogra> Kamion: oh :)
[04:26] <thom> we probably ought to do it for the whole machine, since we're pimping UTF-8
[04:26] <mako> thom: that would be my suggestion :)
[04:27] <mjt> oh oh, no utf-8 please!....  It slows down things like grep VERY significantly...
[04:27] <mjt> about 50 times difference
[04:27] <Kamion> we should fix that not ignore it
[04:27] <mako> mjt: are you serious?
[04:27] <Kamion> like it or not we *are* switching to UTF-8
[04:27] <mjt> mako: unfortunately yes
[04:27] <Kamion> the benefits of interoperation are far too significant to ignore
[04:28] <mako> mjt: webpages to not take 50x longer to download on utf-8
[04:28] <Kamion> #181378 et al
[04:28] <mjt> webpages aren't, but using utf8 for the whole system is something differemt
[04:28] <mjt> different
[04:29] <mjt> $ time grep -r 'a+b' /usr/include 
[04:29] <mjt> user    0m0.190s
[04:29] <mjt> $ time LANG=ru_RU.UTF-8 grep -r 'a+b' /usr/include
[04:29] <mjt> user    0m10.032s
[04:29] <ogra> mjt: hmm 3x the amount of bytes in the chars results in 50x slower performance ?
[04:29] <mjt> go figure
[04:29] <mjt> that's not about number of bytes
[04:29] <Kamion> #181378 includes a patch
[04:29] <Kamion> perhaps try that out
[04:29] <mjt> the prob is in glibc
[04:30] <ogra> mjt: i understand that its about conversion, but anyway....this is not caused by utf8, rather by the bad conversion
[04:30] <mako> mjt: in any case, the choice of locale if you care about this stuff is up to you
[04:31] <Kamion> certainly we're not deleting old locales
[04:31] <mako> mjt: but utf-8 is the only sane default at this point
[04:31] <mjt> yes, i understand
[04:31] <mako> mjt: latin-* is *insanity*
[04:31] <ogra> mjt: and for the future ;)
[04:32] <Kamion> the thought of trying to make encoding transliteration over ssh sessions work "properly" (for whatever value of properly you want) makes my head hurt
[04:32] <mako> i mean for traffic, there's no way i could do it correctly in w/ a non-unicode encoding
[04:32] <sladen> mjt: can you knock up a shell script/ test example that shows the difference between UTF-8 and C for grep (if that's where you think a problem is)
[04:32] <Kamion> sladen: see the bug I referred to
[04:32] <mjt> sladen: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=181378
[04:32] <mjt> sladen: and I just pasted `time' results from my system
[04:33] <mjt> 0m10.032s vs 0m0.190s
[04:33] <mako> thom: should i send mail to admin or are you just going to handle it?
[04:33] <thom> send mail to admin
[04:34] <mjt> hm...  10 vs 0.1 is 100 times difference, not 50!.. :(
[04:35] <mako> mjt: ITS WORTH IT :)
[04:35] <mako> actually, imo, it is
[04:42] <mjt> that patch attached to #181378 is for grep itself.  However I think grep does nothing wrong in the first place
[04:43] <mjt> grep calls mbrtowc() for every input char to determine it's width
[04:43] <Kamion> caching that sounds sane to me
[04:44] <mjt> and this is where it is slows down.  mbrtowc() (from glibc) is the routine which is the problem. 
[04:44] <mjt> if you look at the implementation of mbrtowc().. oh well.. ;)
[04:44] <mjt> it is loading/initializing/unloading gconv module each time it is called.
[04:44] <fabbione> daniels: another change??????
[04:44] <ogra> mjt: other apps that could prove this theory ?
[04:45] <sladen> Kamion: one of the beatiful things about the UTF-8 is the charater width can be obtained entirely from the first character with nothing more than a mask
[04:45] <mjt> theory?
[04:45] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, now builds to completion on amd64 and powerpc
[04:45] <daniels> i386 and ia64 are still churning their way through
[04:45] <mdz> mako: please file a bug about that apache charset thing if you haven't already
[04:45] <fabbione> daniels: ok.. where and what do i need to change?
[04:45] <daniels> fabbione: do you want to test nvidia-glx with 2.6.10? :)
[04:46] <daniels> fabbione: debian/xterm.install, change koi8rxterm.1x and lxterm.1x to koi8rxterm.1 and lxterm.1
[04:46] <fabbione> daniels: sure.. hook me up the packages..
[04:46] <mako> mdz: wait.. a bug against the apache2 package in ubuntu?
[04:46] <mako> mdz: i haven't
[04:46] <mdz> mako: yes
[04:47] <mako> mdz: doing it now
[04:47] <mdz> anything which isn't expecting a UTF-8 world out of the box is a bug in hoary
[04:47] <thom> oof
[04:47] <mako> ubuntu rocks
[04:47] <mako> thom: so.. isn't there a way to hae apache parse the <?xml line of xhtml and then set of the charset appropriately?
[04:48] <fabbione> daniels: is the MANIFEST.sparc ok for these 2 files?
[04:48] <daniels> fabbione: cool, hold up a sec
[04:48] <daniels> fabbione: yeah
[04:48] <vinsci> is any of the launchpad source code available somehwere? Looking specifically for Malone, for possible use in another project
[04:48] <fabbione> daniels: ok. updated.. let see what we happen
[04:48] <thom> mako: GACK!
[04:48] <fabbione> daniels: i won't test the packages until tomorrow
[04:48] <fabbione> so take your time...
[04:48] <thom> (yes, you could write a filter to do so)
[04:48] <fabbione> BECAUSE I WIN AGAIN!
[04:49] <fabbione> ibook go to nap DIE DIE DIE DIE
[04:49] <mako> thom: i think that would be very slick and very sane.. it would Do The Right Thing most/much of the time
[04:49] <fabbione> it took me only 5 hours to rediff that patch
[04:49] <fabbione> i wonder if it can compiles...
[04:49] <mako> thom: but mdz is right.. for non-xml where we can't tell, it should default to utf-8
[04:49] <daniels> fabbione: suits me, i want to sleep soon
[04:50] <daniels> fabbione: let me know how sparc goes and i'll upload it in the morning if it's all alright
[04:50] <fabbione> daniels: i need to stop soon or tomorrow i will never wake up from suspend to bed
[04:50] <Kamion> vinsci: not currently, I'm afraid
[04:50] <daniels> fabbione: i know the feeling
[04:50] <ogra> heh
[04:50] <thom> daniels: you wish
[04:50] <trukulo> hi ogra
[04:51] <mako> dudeadude, i forgot my bugzilla password ONCE A WEEK
[04:51] <ogra> hi :)
[04:51] <trukulo> made a new version of the package for sarge/sid :)
[04:51] <trukulo> (graveman)
[04:51] <ogra> yay
[04:51] <daniels> thom: not as ancient as you, mind
[04:51] <vinsci> Kamion, ok thanks.  Whom should I approach to discuss that?
[04:51] <daniels> thom: i'm not decrepit yet
[04:51] <thom> pfft, so you claim
[04:51] <ogra> trukulo: did you include a .desktop file 
[04:51] <ogra> ?
[04:51] <Kamion> vinsci: #launchpad would probably be a better place to start than here
[04:51] <trukulo> ogra: how do you put cdrecord? as recommend or dep ?
[04:52] <daniels> thom: never did find a copy of never, never land with a 'proper' extra cd, btw
[04:52] <trukulo> no, i'didn't, i want to do it in the next version of the package
[04:52] <trukulo> i can use yours
[04:52] <daniels> thom: so got one today (among many others) with just the one cd
[04:52] <ogra> trukulo: dep, for sure....it wont work without it
[04:52] <vinsci> Kamion, ah, dind't know about that channel
[04:52] <trukulo> ok, i wasn't sure about it
[04:52] <ogra> trukulo: grab what you need ;)
[04:52] <trukulo> so : cdrecord, mkisofs readcd ans sox as deps ?
[04:52] <mako> thom: right now, the default is iso-8859-1, which is pretty crap character encoding.. not yoyo symbol even
[04:53] <mdz> thom: a filter?
[04:53] <trukulo> ogra: wanna talk with you to help in the package
[04:53] <trukulo> we can share resources (man page, icons, docs... )
[04:54] <daniels> mdz: a2 lets you chain together filters, which let you perform arbitrary transformations
[04:54] <daniels> mdz: e.g. php processing, compression, whatever
[04:55] <ogra> trukulo: yup....later, if i'm home....currently i'm at the office....sitting around and waiting for the end of the day to start the important work ;)
[04:56] <daniels> hm.
[04:56] <mako> mdz: i want one that will parse the xml line and set the charset to whatever the xml claims it is
[04:56] <trukulo> not today, olivier, another day we can talk about this, now i have to go for 2 days
[04:56] <trukulo> ok ?
[04:56] <ogra> trukulo: ok, np.
[04:57] <daniels> at this rate, i won't have finished rsyncing the i386+source+powerpc archive by the time my amd64 turns up
[04:57] <trukulo> perf.
[04:57] <mdz> mako: I thought we were talking about a directory listing
[04:57] <mjt> mako: what apache bug?
[04:57] <mdz> not the contents of a file
[04:57] <mako> mjt: well, i'm filing it
[04:57] <mako> mdz: no.. files
[04:57] <mjt> here, apache works with utf8
[04:57] <mako> mdz: i just moved traffic to utf-8 yesterday.. and it looks crap
[04:57] <mdz> eek
[04:58] <mako> because it is not, in fact, utf-8
[04:58] <mdz> that sounds much harder :-)
[04:58] <mako> no, no
[04:58] <thom> mdz: AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 
[04:58] <mjt> if there's no other defaultCHarset ;)
[04:59] <mdz> thom: I was thinking that it would be a relatively safe assumption to assume that filenames were UTF-8 encoded, since we're going in that direction
[04:59] <mako> mdz: but my other suggestion was to parse the first line of xml/xhtml documents.. where the charset is declared
[04:59] <mdz> but switching the default charset for the contents of files sounds like the upgrade problem from hell
[04:59] <mako> mdz: and then to have apache send that as the charset for that document
[04:59] <mdz> that'd be nice
[04:59] <mako> mdz: but we *need* a default charset and it shouldn't be iso-8859-1 
[05:00] <trukulo> umm, i can't make a sid pbuilder, passwd fails
[05:00] <mjt> that's what Meta charset tag is for
[05:00] <mako> mdz: we can not switch it for old installations
[05:00] <mako> mjt: does help me for text files
[05:00] <trukulo> don't worry, i'll ask on #ubuntu
[05:00] <mako> mjt: sorry.. DOESN'T
[05:00] <mjt> yeah
[05:00] <thom> mjt: helps not at all for packaging
[05:01] <thom> mako: hrm, doing it for new installs only is relatively trivial
[05:01] <mjt> but "upgrading" the content to utf8 may indeed be a problem
[05:01] <mako> mdz: the parsing thing would at least not break any correct xhtml anywhere :)
[05:01] <mako> thom: right, of course.. i think that's kind of the reality of the whole utf-8 everywhere upgrade
[05:02] <mako> we're better off not daeling with our mistakes of the past
[05:02] <mako> OTHER people can deal with our mistakes of the past
[05:02] <sladen> mjt: okay.  UTF-8 is actually /faster/ to process than several others types of encodings.  The problem is that the current code does not assume ''only UTF-8'' encodings, which would be fast as greased cheese.  It processes everything in a hugely generic way including checking the environment hasn't changed encoding /at every single call/
[05:02] <thom> mako: yeah
[05:02] <mako> latin-* is totally like a venereal diesase
[05:03] <ogra> hmm, greased cheese
[05:03] <sladen> mjt: there are few problems.  UTF-8 is true goodness is a marmite sandwich/
[05:03] <mjt> sladen: the "generic way" here isn't really the cause of slowness.  It's thwe way *how* that generic way is done
[05:03] <mako> sladen: i was with you up to marmite sandwich
[05:04] <thom> i think most of the world will agree with the marmite comparison
[05:04] <daniels> vegemite > marmite
[05:05] <thom> windows > vegemite
[05:05] <daniels> warm beer < vegemite
[05:06] <ogra> mako: https://www.debianshells.de/ubuntu_explode/
[05:08] <sladen> ''Ubuntu goes so fast it will blow your computer apart''
[05:08] <ogra> hehe
[05:09] <mako> ogra: how did that happen?
[05:09] <ogra> actually its too fast for me....if i wanna login at the console while the system boots i always type my pw in the middle of "starting postfix..."
[05:10] <ogra> mako: no idea...someone posted this to #ubunut today
[05:10] <ogra> ubuntu
[05:10] <ogra> indeed
[05:11] <ogra> mako: was not his, he dug it up himself as a joke...dunno where it originally comes from
[05:11] <mako> it's just the live cd :)
[05:14] <krix> hey
[05:16] <mako> Kamion: so
[05:16] <mako> Kamion: :)
[05:17] <srbaker> hey everyone
[05:17] <srbaker> mako, are you still the debian donation guy?
[05:17] <mako> srbaker: hola! :)
[05:17] <mako> srbaker: i'm one of them.. robster is much more active
[05:17] <srbaker> okay.
[05:18] <mako> Kamion: someone wants to put ubuntu on the front a cd by next week
[05:18] <srbaker> i either need to find a home for this PA-RISC D-Class, or find a donation of some RAM, so i can set up a PA-RISC buildd
[05:18] <krix> hm. anybody knows some bug in hoary with xorg and nvidia binary drivers ?
[05:18] <srbaker> in fact, i was thinking of using it as an ubuntu buildd.  but i need RAM and disks
[05:18] <krix> xorg cannot load the GLX module it says no such module
[05:18] <srbaker> i have disks offered, but i need ram.
[05:18] <krix> i heared on #ubuntu that it is a know bug and it will be fixed today 
[05:18] <krix> but when? :)
[05:18] <mako> lamont: you interested/know anything about such things ^^ ?
[05:19] <srbaker> the ram is just too expensive for me to afford right now
[05:19] <mako> Kamion: sort of next-weekish.. 
[05:20] <mako> Kamion: so... how hard would it be to make a warty+security updates image?
[05:20] <mako> Kamion: or do you advise against this?
[05:20] <Kamion> mako: I thought Mark had decided against that
[05:21] <Kamion> mako: probably not hard, I haven't looked at it because we decided not to do it :)
[05:21] <mako> Kamion: right, we did
[05:21] <Kamion> but I'll have a look if you like, just won't publish it anywhere particularly obvious for now
[05:21] <mako> Kamion: but someone else is going to printing up a gazillian cds :)
[05:22] <mako> Kamion: and they had requested that
[05:22] <Kamion> ok
[05:23] <Kamion> mako: warty-security and warty-updates (e.g. calendars) or just warty-security?
[05:24] <mako> the updates could go, or not.. i don't think they'd notice if they weren't there :)
[05:25] <mako> Kamion: i'll send an email to this guy again and cc you
[05:25] <Kamion> ok, please
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: did you get the rescue mode in the installer working to your liking?
[05:46] <thom> mako: DefaultCharset on rookery is UTF-8 now
[05:48] <mako> thom: traffic is beautiful again :)
[05:48] <mako> thom: thanks!
[06:14] <fabbione> impressing...
[06:15] <fabbione> the ibook go and get a nap is compiling...
[06:19] <Kamion> mdz: it's tolerable; hm, I suppose I should get that in before UVF, shouldn't I?
[06:24] <fabbione> Kamion: i will have a few ppc kernels to test for you tomorrow.. do you think you can allocate time?
[06:24] <fabbione> Kamion: it's for the ibook sleep patch..
[06:24] <fabbione> before i will upload it in a couple of days or so...
[06:25] <Kamion> fabbione: should be able to yeah
[06:25] <fabbione> Kamion: cool. i will hook up elmo too since he bitched about them :P
[06:25] <Kamion> mdz: rescue-{check,mode} uploaded and added to installer seed, but it's in Debian NEW
[06:26] <lamont> sorry - fire call
[06:26] <sjoerd> fabbione: if you've got a ppc sleep patch that builds against vanilla 2.6.10, could you throw it in my direction too :)
[06:26] <mdz> Kamion: UVF hasn't happened yet?  elmo?
[06:27] <lamont> srbaker: we can certainly get you some RAM
[06:27] <fabbione> sjoerd: i have the one from benh manually rediffed on top our 3 or 4 tons of patches...
[06:27] <lamont> fwiw, ia.mmjgroup.com/ubuntu/quinn-diff/list.stage[12] .hppa has the status of my bootstrapping effort.
[06:27] <fabbione> sjoerd: and that one is only for ibook g4 AFAIK
[06:27] <mdz> Kamion: does that mean you're waiting for them to come in from Debian?  If so, please upload directly to Ubuntu instead
[06:28] <Kamion> too late, but I could upload 0.1ubuntu1 with no changes
[06:28] <sjoerd> fabbione: if that's based on the one i originally send you, then it works on albooks too
[06:28] <fabbione> sjoerd: check 4759
[06:28] <fabbione> that's the one i have
[06:28] <fabbione> and well.. it compiles on 2.6.10.. no idea if it works
[06:29] <fabbione> i can't test it
[06:29] <lamont> srbaker: I don't really think that debian needs another buildd right now - the one we have is idle most of the time
[06:29] <fabbione> lamont: 403
[06:29] <srbaker> lamont, i want to port ubuntu
[06:29] <lamont> fabbione: somehow, I'm not surprised.
[06:29] <fabbione> srbaker: what arch?
[06:29] <srbaker> fabbione, parisc
[06:29] <fabbione> ah ok
[06:29] <froud> seb128, I belive you are doing the packaging?
[06:30] <seb128> for ?
[06:30] <lamont> srbaker: 334 pkgs from main in needs-build in stage2,  5 on stage1
[06:30] <Kamion> lamont: speaking of, how come hppa hasn't built charmap.app? :)
[06:30] <froud> do you package the docs
[06:30] <seb128> which docs ?
[06:30] <srbaker> lamont, can ubuntu use another buildd?
[06:30] <thom> yes, seb does everything. we just watch and laugh
[06:30] <seb128> there is plenty of doc in the archive
[06:30] <froud> seb128, ubuntu
[06:30] <seb128> yeah, I do the whole ubuntu
[06:30] <sjoerd> fabbione: that works on albooks too.. I started rediffing it against 2.6.10 myself, but it got tiresome really fast :)
[06:30] <seb128> all the other guys here are useless bot
[06:30] <seb128> look at thom :p
[06:31] <lamont> srbaker: well, I figure I'll have stage2 happy before weekend  at the rate it's going.  There is certainly some development work needed for a parisc port
[06:31] <thom> seb128: i'll reassign my firefox bugs to you then
[06:31] <fabbione> sjoerd: i have it for the ubuntu kernels. no idea if it applies on vanilla 2.6.10
[06:31] <srbaker> well, i'm wanting to play with the parisc box.   i might like to help
[06:31] <froud> seb128, I am writing OMF files for scrollkeeper
[06:31] <seb128> thom: just reassign the gtk, people tend to like that :p
[06:31] <fabbione> seb128: COOL! i can give you the kernel
[06:31] <lamont> srbaker: right now, the biggest benefit from the hppa buildd I have running is that it's finding a bunch of bit-rot ftbfs's
[06:31] <srbaker> i just know i have a big, heavy sonofabitch that i can't use without ram and disks.
[06:31] <seb128> was a joke dudes :p
[06:31] <srbaker> and i'd like to see it put to good use
[06:31] <froud> seb128, need to know what category to define
[06:31] <sjoerd> fabbione: could you send it this way, then we'll know fast enough :)
[06:32] <seb128> froud: in fact thom did the doc-base/omf/yelp integration
[06:32] <froud> seb128, <subject category="System|Other"/>
[06:32] <fabbione> sjoerd: i am already building ppc kernels.. but yes.. if you want to make your ppc die faster... be my guest
[06:32] <froud> OK
[06:32] <froud> thom, you here
[06:32] <seb128> but I can try to reply, just ask your question
[06:33] <froud> do you understand OMF files
[06:33] <froud> I need the value for <subject category="System|Other"/>
[06:33] <thom> for what?
[06:33] <froud> what category do we use
[06:33] <froud> thom, ubuntu documents
[06:33] <fabbione> sjoerd: people.u.c/~fabbione/ibookg4-sleep-7.dpatch
[06:33] <sjoerd> fabbione: thanks :)
[06:34] <thom> good grief. about what?
[06:34] <froud> thom, I am writing docs and preparing scrollkeeper stuff
[06:34] <froud> in OMF files
[06:34] <froud> we must define <subject category="System|Other"/>
[06:34] <froud> what category do we put Ubuntu User Guide, FAQ Guide, QUICK Guide
[06:35] <froud> into
[06:35] <lamont> srbaker: I can certainly provide a list of packages with issues, there seem to be some kernel issues that crap out the db4.3 and python2.4 builds, wrt mutexes and threading (which could well be mutexes again)
[06:36] <thom> General|Linux|Ubuntu would seem reasonable, but have you read the OMF documents that describe how you choose? if you've not, please do so
[06:36] <froud> thom, yes but that does mean I will be right :-)
[06:37] <froud> thom, better to ask IMHO
[06:37] <froud> thom, do you think we need a seriedid for each doc or one for all
[06:37] <thom> no, much better to read rather than waste other people's time.
[06:37] <thom> please, PLEASE read the docs
[06:38] <froud> strange, I thought of a different category
[06:38] <froud> thna you and read the docs
[06:38] <froud> well I wont WASTE YOUR TIME. THANKS
[06:40] <fabbione> ChangeSet@1.2097, 2005-01-04 21:31:38-08:00, jamagallon@able.es
[06:40] <fabbione>   [PATCH]  make gconfig work with gtk-2.4
[06:40] <fabbione> amen :-)
[06:40] <fabbione> seb128: you were faster tho :-)
[06:40] <seb128> ah ah
[06:41] <lamont> and then cron.hourly gets run
[06:42] <lamont> woot.  more packages installed in stage 2 than needs-build :-)
[06:44] <Keybuk> mdz: answer to your mail is that ltmain.sh and libtool.m4 are out-of-sync most likely
[06:45] <mdz> Keybuk: hmm, they're both unchanged from upstream
[06:47] <fabbione> lamont: congratulation
[06:47] <fabbione> and i am off for dinner
[06:47] <fabbione> cya tomorrow guys
[06:48] <lamont> later fabbione 
[06:48] <Keybuk> mdz: grep "^TIMESTAMP" ltmain.sh && grep "serial.*LIBTOOL" *.m4
[06:48] <mdz> TIMESTAMP=" (1.1220.2.94 2004/04/10 16:27:27)"
[06:48] <mdz> # serial 46 AC_PROG_LIBTOOL
[06:52] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, that looks totally off-kilter to me :p
[06:53] <Keybuk> needs libtoolize, aclocal and autoconf to be run
[06:55] <lamont> Kamion: because we don't likes it.
[06:57] <lamont> Kamion: which is to say, dunno completely yet - I gave it back last night, but still no build love.
[06:57] <mdz> Keybuk: as long as I have your ear, I have a very strange problem in the same tree, where ldd says that flac is linked with both libFLAC.so.4 and libFLAC.so.6, but there is only a NEEDED for libFLAC.so.6
[06:58] <Keybuk> mdz: something deeper in the dep tree linking with .so.4 ?
[06:58] <Keybuk> ldd traverses the tree, objdump doesn't
[06:58] <lamont> Kamion: buildd happier now, it'll get to charmap.app sometime soonish
[06:58] <mdz> Keybuk: nothing even mentions it; I grepped the entire tree
[06:59] <mdz> Keybuk: it gets weirder
[06:59] <Keybuk> odd
[06:59] <mdz> Keybuk: if I move libFLAC.so.4 out of the way, it runs just fine
[06:59] <mdz> Keybuk: and ldd quits mentioning it
[06:59] <Keybuk> no LD_PRELOAD or anything?
[06:59] <mdz> nope
[06:59] <Keybuk> oh, hang on
[06:59] <Keybuk> where's .so.4 ?
[07:00] <mdz> /usr/lib
[07:00] <Keybuk> ok
[07:00] <Kamion> lamont: thanks
[07:00] <mdz> I have v4 installed on the system and am building a new release which bumps to v6
[07:01] <mdz> the flac binary was linked with a gcc command line which does not mention libFLAC.so.4 or -lFLAC anywhere; it explicitly links with the versions in the tree (via libtool)
[07:01] <Keybuk> there was a libtool bug where it linked the wrong thing, are you sure it's really linking the right things?
[07:02] <mdz> Kamion: what would be a good time to set up a weekly cron job to rsync the DVD image?
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: not entirely sure yet :)
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: Sunday afternoon pretty much guaranteed, though
[07:02] <Kamion> (UTC)
[07:03] <mdz> Keybuk: I wonder if it isn't related to the libtool weirdness
[07:03] <mdz> I'l try re-libtoolizing it
[07:03] <lamont> Kamion: looks like ~1hour or so (python2.3 is ahead of it)
[07:04] <Kamion> lamont: ok; if it could make today's dinstall so the gnustep transition in testing can happen that would be fantastic
[07:06] <lamont> Kamion: should
[07:07] <mdz> elmo: what's your timeline for UpstreamVersionFreeze?
[07:07] <mdz> (if it isn't done already)
[07:08] <thom> mdz: can i sneak mozilla in under the wire? (it's building now) (fixes a security vuln)
[07:32] <azeem> mako: is there a mailing-list I can subscribe to in order to get a text version of Ubuntu Traffic, similar to debian-news WRT DWN?
[07:32] <mako> azeem: ubuntu-news
[07:32] <mako> :)
[07:32] <azeem> how convenient :)
[07:32] <azeem> cheers
[07:33] <mako> that list is undersubscribed
[07:33] <ogra> mako: you dont shout loud enough.....
[07:33] <azeem> "You can sign up for any of the mailing lists summarized here at http://lists.ubuntu.com."
[07:34] <ogra> :)
[07:34] <azeem> mako: maybe you could add: "Signup for ubuntu-news to recieve Ubuntu Traffic via mail weekly"
[07:38] <sjoerd> fabbione: seems you left out one function from the old patch, but otherwise the patch worked... time to reboot and kill the machine :)
[07:38] <fabbione> sjoerd: what function?
[07:38] <fabbione> if a function is missing gcc would complain...
[07:39] <sjoerd> dfs_get_cpu_speed
[07:39] <sjoerd> yeah, build failed here the first time
[07:39] <fabbione> it doesn't here
[07:39] <mako> azeem: good idea.. i will
[07:39] <sjoerd> maybe it's in one of the other ubuntu patches then
[07:39] <sjoerd> fabbione: it's a ppc only function btw
[07:40] <fabbione> sjoerd: could be. i have a big fat acpi patch applied that is not upstream yet
[07:40] <ogra> fabbione: dmesg log is on its way
[07:40] <fabbione> ogra: thanks for the test!
[07:40] <ogra> lol
[07:40] <fabbione> ogra: it's not a FritZ bug...
[07:40] <ogra> but ?
[07:41] <fabbione> it's the mISDN core that is buggy
[07:41] <ogra> ahh, thats what i thought when i saw the DEBUG stuff
[07:41] <fabbione> Dive into mISDN_register
[07:41] <fabbione> kobject_register failed for fcpci (-17)
[07:41] <fabbione>  [<c01ad695>]  kobject_register+0x57/0x59
[07:41] <fabbione> BUM
[07:41] <ogra> yup
[07:41] <fabbione> that Dive is calling a more general mISDN function.
[07:42] <ogra> it will try to shuffle the modules around a bit....lets see
[07:42] <fabbione> no i need to add more debugging stuff
[07:42] <fabbione> there is no point in shuffling
[07:42] <ogra> the hisax shouldnt get loaded there (which is done by default)
[07:43] <mako> azeem: i added a whole paragraph about getting ubuntu traffic to traffic
[07:43] <mako> azeem: email, rss, web, etc
[07:43] <fabbione> sjoerd: actually powerpc isn't built yet. only power3 and 4
[07:44] <ogra> fabbione: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IsdnHowto
[07:44] <mako> azeem: it will go out with the next issue.. hopefully later today
[07:44] <azeem> cool
[07:45] <azeem> so I need to hurry up to subscribe :)
[07:45] <ogra> fabbione: it shouldnt oops, but still the wrong modules are loaded by default
[07:45] <fabbione> ogra: hmmmm do you have the other modules blacklisted?
[07:45] <fabbione> i think that the 2 modules can't be loaded at the same time
[07:45] <fabbione> and that might cause the oops
[07:45] <ogra> fabbione: nope, but also this shouldnt oops
[07:46] <fabbione> ogra: it might oops if there is some kind of crappyness in both the drivers
[07:46] <ogra> fabbione: it should just complain and stop loading
[07:46] <fabbione> ogra: not necessarely
[07:46] <ogra> true
[07:46] <fabbione> i have seen really weird stuff when it goes to modules
[07:46] <mvo_> fabbione: have you seen my additon to the bug? the output of your debug module?
[07:46] <fabbione> like alsa and oss loaded at the same time sharing the same card
[07:46] <ogra> i'll go and try....but mvo is already doing dialin tests...
[07:46] <fabbione> mvo_: no thanks.. ogra's one is enough
[07:48] <mvo_> fabbione: I added a new attachment to #5193
[07:48] <Kamion> elmo: I'm going to need that gpgv-udeb soon; have you had a chance to look at the patch?
[07:48] <fabbione> HMMM
[07:48] <fabbione> ogra: i think i will need you to test another fritz module...
[07:48] <ogra> k
[07:49] <fabbione> mvo_: is that from what? it doesn't show the oops..
[07:50] <fabbione> that one seems to load fine...
[07:50] <ogra> DEBUG: AVM Fritz: err = pci_register_driver(&fcpci_driver);
[07:50] <mvo_> fabbione: it may be a additonal data-point. inserting the module once gives that output (it dosn't detect the card and exits). inserting it a second time crashs the machine hard
[07:51] <fabbione> mvo_: yeah... 
[07:51] <fabbione> i think i know the problem
[07:51] <fabbione> and the solution
[07:51] <mvo_> fabbione: cool!
[07:51] <ogra> :-D
[07:51] <fabbione> rm -f debian/patches/misdn.dpatch
[07:51] <fabbione> whoops
[07:51] <ogra> hehe
[07:51] <fabbione> EWINDOW
[07:52] <mvo_> :-D
[07:52] <fabbione> actually..
[07:52] <fabbione> most of the mISDN work is in german
[07:52] <fabbione> what about you 2 germans writing to upstream?
[07:52] <fabbione> and ask for info?
[07:52] <fabbione> i don
[07:52] <mvo_> fabbione: I can certainly do that
[07:53] <fabbione> i don't get a clue of what happens on 3/4 of the mailing list
[07:53] <fabbione> because it's crypto encoded in a strange way
[07:53] <mdz> thom: if elmo hasn't locked it down yet, go for it
[07:53] <ogra> you mean like italian ?
[07:54] <sivang> anybody have an idea why my Xorg won't let the gnome resolution chooser choose more then 640x480 on the laptop? I have tried several times to dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and check all the possible resolutions and nothing works..
[07:55] <fabbione> ogra: like german
[07:55] <fabbione> ;)
[07:56] <ogra> mdz: i looked at pittis current version of hwfu....the detection stuff is easy done....how many of the interfaces have to be in place in feb ?
[07:56] <ogra> fabbione: :)
[07:56] <mdz> ogra: which interfaces are possible?
[07:58] <fabbione> sjoerd: right.... arch/ppc/platforms/pmac_cpufreq.c:462: error: `dfs_get_cpu_speed' undeclared (first use in this function)
[07:58] <fabbione> but now... I DIFFED ALL THESE FILES MANUALLY TO NOT LOSE ANYTHING
[07:58] <fabbione> WTF IS WRONG
[07:58] <ogra> hmm, hard to evaluate...
[07:59] <sjoerd> fabbione: and it goes into suspend, but never gets out :)
[07:59] <sjoerd> maybe you missed something else too...
[07:59] <mdz> ogra: when you speak of interfaces, are you talking about PCI, USB, etc.?
[07:59] <ogra> sivang: are you still interested in building the Web-based hardware database ?
[08:00] <ogra> mdz: nope, i mean the cross references to X, hotplug etc
[08:00] <fabbione> sjoerd: no. i am afraid we need to wait for benh
[08:00] <sjoerd> fabbione: well it was a nice try :)
[08:01] <fabbione> it's not worth one day of my time
[08:01] <sjoerd> fabbione: how's sparc and 2.6.10 coming :)
[08:01] <fabbione> sjoerd: dunno.. haven't tested yet.. but the ffb on sparc is broken
[08:01] <fabbione> i read the patch today
[08:02] <fabbione> that marks it as such
[08:02] <mdz> ogra: hotplug and X (discover1's X info) would be the most important
[08:03] <mdz> ogra: the important part as far as the release process is to get the data collection piece into hoary
[08:03] <ogra> mdz: ok, but for both i cant promise anything, but i'll do my best... :)
[08:03] <mdz> ogra: with the ability to submit data from the user's system
[08:03] <ogra> mdz: as i said, the data collection stuff is easy.... pitti prepared it _very_ well
[08:04] <mdz> ogra: ok, as far as the freeze is concerned, we can be more flexible with the server side
[08:04] <mdz> which includes the cross-referencing
[08:04] <Kamion> oh, can somebody be assigned to work on making sure that everything necessary from discover1's database is in hotplug?
[08:04] <mdz> because that isn't going into the distribution
[08:04] <lamont> Kamion: charmap.app uploaded
[08:04] <Kamion> it would be a shame if we regressed hardware support
[08:04] <sjoerd> fabbione: i'm not using that, so that's not the problem
[08:04] <Kamion> lamont: great, thanks!
[08:04] <ogra> mdz: ah, fine :)
[08:08] <mjt> hotplug does not contain a "hardware database" as discover does
[08:09] <Kamion> mjt: yes, I know, but the kernel still has big lists of PCI ids and we should make sure that anything that needs to be added there is added
[08:09] <mjt> hotplug uses a "database" from built from modules in current kernel
[08:09] <Kamion> when I said hotplug I meant the kernel side
[08:10] <mdz> Kamion: I still have the program I wrote which compares them
[08:10] <ogra> Kamion: i think the hotplug side can be done with hwfu ...
[08:10] <Kamion> in particular there have been some drivers during hoary so far found to be missing MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE
[08:10] <mdz> there are only 145 entries which need manual examination
[08:10] <Keybuk> Kamion: I would be shocked if there was missing stuff in the kernel
[08:10] <Keybuk> as discover wouldn't be any use for those devices either
[08:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: there has been a mere matter of months ago
[08:10] <mdz> Keybuk: not all drivers support hotplug yet
[08:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: nope, discover worked fine
[08:10] <Keybuk> (the module wouldn't bother configuring the device)
[08:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: it was sk98lin if you want to go back and look
[08:11] <mjt> if a module misses pcimap for example, it will not work
[08:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: worked fine, I have the hardware
[08:11] <Keybuk> a PCI device?
[08:11] <Kamion> yes
[08:11] <Keybuk> how did the module know what device you wanted it to use when you loaded it?
[08:11] <Kamion> it listed the PCI ids in the module, but didn't export them to hotplug
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: skge didn't, until we patched it, but it's now fixed upstream
[08:11] <Keybuk> oh, that's a bit odd
[08:11] <mdz> it used the old method
[08:11] <Keybuk> ahh, legacy driver, that kinda makes sense
[08:11] <mdz> which didn't integrate with hotplug
[08:11] <Keybuk> (it doesn't export to hotplug, but rather depmod)
[08:11] <Kamion> it seems not entirely unlikely that there are more such drivers kicking around
[08:12] <mjt> speaking of pci, there's no support for "legacy drivers" in 2.6 anymore
[08:12] <Keybuk> mjt: hmm, such as?
[08:12] <mjt> if a module is a driver for some pci device, it have to export module_pci_map
[08:13] <Keybuk> oh, you mean the "keep up with the kernel API or loose" controversy? :-/
[08:13] <mjt> or to implement half a pci subsystem internally ;)
[08:13] <mdz> mjt: look at the sk98lin driver in 2.6.8.1
[08:14] <mjt> driver model changed alot in 2.6
[08:14] <Keybuk> kobjecty pci drivers are pretty easy to write
[08:14] <mdz> Kamion: do you need to do a d-i upload to get the rescue mode stuff in?
[08:14] <Kamion> mdz: yes, but there'll be plenty of d-i uploads between now and featurefreeze at least, anyway
[08:14] <mdz> Kamion: just wondering if I could try it out
[08:15] <Kamion> ah
[08:15] <mjt> ugh, that's a large driver...
[08:15] <Kamion> I'll do the d-i upload as soon as it's NEWed
[08:15] <Kamion> will need bootloader tweaks too
[08:15] <mdz> speaking of which, was elmo around while I was asleep?
[08:15] <Kamion> at least if you want to get into rescue mode in a way that doesn't involve explicitly booting with rescue/enable=true :)
[08:15] <Kamion> I haven't seen elmo since this morning UK time
[08:16] <mdz> I don't suppose he mentioned anything about the freeze
[08:16] <Keybuk> are we freezing?
[08:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: yeah...
[08:16] <Kamion> he was wrestling with udev breakage in chroots
[08:16] <Kamion> Keybuk: upstream version freeze
[08:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: mind to turn on the heating?
[08:20] <mdz> I hope that elmo did the freeze, because I just uploaded a very broken version of flac to sid
[08:20] <Keybuk> would you like mom to stop filing bugs?
[08:21] <mdz> I figured we'd do it at the same time as executing the freeze, but I don't suppose it truly matters
[08:21] <Keybuk> ok, just say when
[08:21] <mdz> they ought to be fairly close, though
[08:21] <mdz> waiting for elmo to reappear
[08:22] <Keybuk> just start talking about him, that usually works
[08:22] <mdz> Keybuk: I've been trying that for hours :-P
[08:23] <Keybuk> but are you being insulting?
[08:23] <mdz> not particularly
[08:23] <Keybuk> ahh, well there you go then
[08:25] <fabbione> elmo: SPARC!
[08:25] <fabbione> :P
[08:26] <lamont> linhwc.c:63:36: X11/extensions/xf86dga.h: No such file or directory
[08:26] <lamont> linhwc.c:64:38: X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h: No such file or directory
[08:26] <lamont> what F^*()^ build-dep is it missing?
[08:26] <fabbione> libext-dev ?
[08:26] <lamont> hrm libxext-dev is there...
[08:27] <fabbione> xlibs-static-dev
[08:27] <fabbione> but hell...
[08:28] <fabbione> my Contents-i386 hasn't been updated since Oct..
[08:28] <fabbione> wait
[08:29] <fabbione> libxxf86dga-dev libxxf86vm-dev
[08:29] <fabbione> lamont: these 2
[08:29] <lamont> thanks
[08:29] <fabbione> elmo: can you please update the Contents at least once a week please?
[08:29] <fabbione> they are very useful to track build-dep
[08:30] <lamont> fabbione: but they take too long... :-)
[08:30] <mdz> mjg59: my laptop just shit itself when a GL screensaver activated after having resumed from swsusp
[08:30] <mdz> mjg59: is that normal?
[08:30] <fabbione> lamont: my sparc that is almost a doorstopper can manage the sparc archive in less than 2 minutes...
[08:30] <fabbione> lamont: with all the power in the DC it should take less than that :P
[08:49] <Keybuk> "Writing spam ..."
[08:49] <Keybuk> ^ absolute proof that mutt is evil
[08:59] <Kamion> hm, obviously nobody's tested today's daily CD yet ... :)
[08:59] <lamont> Kamion: the cute part is watching the daily build logs as it retries every half hour.
[09:00] <Kamion> lamont: my comment was orthogonal :)
[09:00] <lamont> ah, was wondering how xine would break the daily CD...
[09:00] <Kamion> tzsetup-udeb/base-config screwed; bloody hard to test that combination :-/
[09:00] <Kamion> at least before uploading
[09:02] <lamont> Kamion: after the gym, I'll upload a new libpaper... will be interesting to see what that does on the daily CD when en_US is selected
[09:02] <lamont> anyway, must run.  back in a couple hours or so
[09:15] <mjt> "Ubuntu as an ideal Entreprise Linux solution"... wtf is that?!
[09:15] <mako> mjt: its business speak
[09:15] <mako> mjt: it may not actually mean anything :)
[09:15] <mako> mjt: but a lot of people think it does
[09:16] <mjt> oh well, business speak... ok when ;)
[09:30] <jdub> elmo: ping
[09:30] <mjt> is rsync:archive.ubuntu.com for official mirrors only?
[09:32] <mjt> getting Packages and Sources using rsync is more efficient than http, but there's a small limit on concurrent rsyncds running on the server - much less than ftp/http
[09:33] <mjg59> fabbione: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/patches/swsusp-speedup.dpatch
[09:35] <mdz> seb128: any idea why I'm experiencing bug #1234 again?
[09:39] <mjg59> fabbione: Plus http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/patches/swsusp-platform-devices.dpatch
[09:39] <mdz> fabbione: any reason to delay switching to 2.6.10 as default?
[09:43] <kezz> anybody tell me if there's a public cvs for ubuntu?
[09:43] <mdz> Kamion: is there an easy way to skip the first CD scan?  I'm curious as to whether it is actually pessimizing things
[09:43] <jdub> kezz: we're not using version control for most of our work at this stage, public code versioning is in the package repository :)
[09:44] <kezz> how bout the source?
[09:44] <jdub> the package repository includes source
[09:44] <jdub> source packages
[09:44] <kezz> ah cool
[09:44] <kezz> thanks a lot
[09:48] <seb128> mdz: nop, nautilus-cd-burner has not changed for weeks. Perhaps the news dbus/hal ?
[09:48] <mdz> seb128: I first noticed it happening again in early Dec
[09:48] <mdz> see #1234
[09:48] <mdz> it was fixed in Warty, but has regressed somehow
[09:48] <seb128> oh right, I've not checked the dates
[09:48] <seb128> will investigate on it
[09:49] <seb128> jdub: have you read this desktop file/security issue stuff ?
[09:51] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok, current state of things with respect to swsusp on PPC is that there's no sane patch
[09:57] <jdub> seb128: yeah
[09:57] <seb128> mdz: the patch got dropped somewhere 
[09:57] <mdz> aha
[09:57] <mjg59> fabbione: And benh needs to release a StR patch for 2.6.10 - his last one comes nowhere near applying
[09:57] <seb128> there is no debian/patches in the package
[09:57] <seb128> mdz: fixing it right now
[09:57] <mdz> seb128: great, thanks
[09:58] <seb128> np
[09:58] <seb128> jdub: any opinion on it ?
[09:58] <mdz> Kamion: your DVD image worked for me, at least up to the partitioner (which is as far as I could take it at the moment, not being prepared to wipe it again quite yet)
[09:58] <mdz> (i386)
[10:01] <jdub> seb128: mail sent :)
[10:01] <stvn> anyone know if ubuntu supports the 'Science' application category? (from the fd.o menu-spec)
[10:01] <seb128> jdub: thanks :)
[10:21] <seb128> mdz: in fact the feature is in the new upstream version of ncb, that's why I dropped the patch. I've just tried here, it works fine. I've included instruction to get the debug log in the bug report, let me know if there is something useful in the log.
[10:22] <mdz> seb128: ok, I'll try it again
[10:30] <mdz> seb128: I followed your instructions, but did not see any debug output (the nautilus process exited immediately after opening a window)
[10:31] <seb128> you need to close all the nautilus windows
[10:31] <seb128> or it keeps running
[10:31] <seb128> so doesn't attach in the console
[10:32] <mdz> ok
[10:33] <mdz> seb128: ok, it runs in the foreground now, but still no debug output
[10:33] <mdz> seb128: /appse/nautilus-cd-burner/debug = true
[10:33] <mdz> s/appse/apps/
[10:34] <seb128> even when you launch the CD burning ?
[10:34] <mdz> yes
[10:34] <seb128> weird
[10:34] <mdz> up to the point of the 'Disc is busy' dialog anyway
[10:34] <mdz> which is as far as it can go unless I unmount it by hand
[10:34] <seb128> ok, perhaps it doesn't log at this point
[10:35] <seb128> it log about the iso creation and the cdrecord output
[10:35] <seb128> basically mkisofs/cdrecord outputs in fact
[10:37] <seb128> (looking on the code)
[10:40] <seb128> sjoerd: here ?
[10:41] <sjoerd> seb128: yeah
[10:41] <seb128> any idea on this issue ? 
[10:41] <seb128> sjoerd: nautilus-cd-burner doesn't want to umount the device before recording
[10:42] <sjoerd> it uses gnome-vfs for unmounting right ?
[10:43] <seb128> mdz: in hal-device-manager, for the CD, what values do you have for volume.disc.type ?
[10:43] <seb128> sjoerd: correct
[10:44] <seb128> cd-recorder.c -> unmount_drive () in the ncb sources
[10:44] <mdz> seb128: dvd_plus_rw
[10:45] <seb128> hum
[10:45] <seb128> 	case CD_MEDIA_TYPE_CD:
[10:45] <seb128> 	case CD_MEDIA_TYPE_DVD:
[10:45] <seb128> 	case CD_MEDIA_TYPE_DVD_RAM:
[10:45] <seb128> 		return FALSE;
[10:45] <sjoerd> seb128: which version ? (in 2.8.6 it does the unmounting itself)
[10:46] <seb128> 	case CD_MEDIA_TYPE_DVD_PLUS_RW:
[10:46] <seb128> 		return TRUE;
[10:46] <seb128> sjoerd: 2.8.6, I thought it was using gnomevfs, but perhaps not ...
[10:46] <sjoerd> seb128: no it isn't
[10:46] <seb128> oh yes
[10:46] <seb128> I should add a pumount in the list
[10:46] <sjoerd> right
[10:46] <seb128> why is that working here ?!
[10:46] <sjoerd> seb128: because your cdrom is in fstab
[10:47] <sjoerd> mdz: can you umount your driver as user with umount ?
[10:47] <mdz> sjoerd: no, only pumount
[10:47] <seb128> ok, that's it so
[10:47] <mdz> seb128: maybe you have an entry in fstab?
[10:47] <seb128> mdz: yep
[10:47] <mdz> ah
[10:47] <sjoerd> seb128: please patch it in debian too :)
[10:47] <seb128> sjoerd: I'm patching in debian and waiting for the sync :)
[10:47] <sjoerd> even better ;)
[10:48] <seb128> mdz: ok, bug found so, thanks
[10:48] <seb128> thanks sjoerd too (I've pinged a bit fast, but speaking about an issue always help :p)
[10:49] <sjoerd> seb128: np
[10:49] <seb128> oh, taaz is connected
[10:49] <seb128> cool :)
[11:02] <amu> hmm, isnt it possible to preconfigure Xorg with a shell-script, ex. with "chroot /mnt/ Xorg -configure" this line is just ignored ?!?     
[11:04] <amu> if i put a chroot /mnt/ strace -o /tmp/X.out Xorg -configure to it, also ignored. No output from strace in /tmp/
[11:08] <ogra> amu: what about /mnt/tmp ?
[11:08] <amu> nix 
[11:08] <ogra> hmm
[11:13] <ogra> amu: apt-cache show dchroot ?
[11:14] <amu> ogra: hmm but i'm root  
[11:14] <ogra> amu: hmm, true
[11:15] <amu> ogra: what's about this, i call from the livescript, a sript in the chroot which starts the command?  
[11:17] <ogra> amu: hmm, if this works, then  Xorg -configure should work too
[11:21] <ogra> amu: does xorg need /proc or /sys ? i think they are not exported automatically to the chroot
[11:23] <amu> i mount them before calling the command :) 
[11:23] <amu> PATH is also fine ... 
[11:26] <amu> ogra: a final chroot /mnt & | && Xorg -configure will also not work.
[11:26] <mdz> & | && ??
[11:26] <ogra> rather: chroot /mnt && Xorg -configure 
[11:27] <amu> mdz: | == or 
[11:28] <amu> mdz: chroot /mnt & Xorg -configure or chroot /mnt && Xorg -configure 
[11:28] <mdz> | == pipe
[11:28] <mdz> you want "chroot /mnt Xorg -configure"
[11:29] <amu> yep 
[11:29] <ogra> mdz: yep, thats the prob
[11:29] <amu> mdz: the command give null output  
[11:29] <ogra> amu: chroot /mnt touch /tmp/blah ?
[11:30] <ogra> is the file created ?
[11:30] <amu> ogra: work  
[11:30] <ogra> strange
[11:32] <amu> ogra: correct
[11:33] <ogra> amu: you also tried Xorg with full path (even if PATH is set) ?
[11:33] <amu> ogra: i've no other idea, than calling it in an other script inside the chroot. But the mainproblem is why it isnt executed.   
[11:34] <ogra> amu: what did daniels say yesterday ?
[11:34] <amu> ogra: yep, it's the same with or without ... another idea is i've to use '  
[11:35] <ogra> amu: would have been my next guess :)
[11:36] <amu> maybe chroot thinks -configure is another argument ?!? i thought i'll ask here before stupid trying :)  
[11:36] <amu> ogra: and google say nothing about :( 
[11:36] <mjt> works here... ;)
[11:36] <bluefoxicy> http://www.netsplit.com/software/gnome-space-chart/  Ubuntu needs this the release after it goes pubilc  :P
[11:37] <bluefoxicy> but anyway
[11:37] <bluefoxicy> anyone know about how big Gnome itself is?
[11:37] <amu> mjt: could you send me please a strace of it 
[11:38] <ogra> amu: i dont think chroot thinks -configure is another argument according to the infopage
[11:38] <mjt> amu: no i can't: because i've no xorg here really, only xfree86... ;)
[11:39] <ogra> mjt: so how do you know it works for you ?
[11:39] <amu> mjt: xfree would be also fine 
[11:40] <ogra> amu: can you do it manually step by step ? (first chroot and the run Xorg ?)
[11:40] <mjt> it's more than 800meg
[11:40] <amu> ogra: yep that works :) 
[11:41] <mjt> and the only difference between chroot and non-chroot is the chroot call itself
[11:41] <ogra> amu: even with the -configure ?
[11:41] <mjt> (i mounted /proc and /dev in the jail.. jfyi)
[11:41] <ogra> hmm, dev
[11:41] <amu> mjt: yeah a diff woould be enough 
[11:42] <mjt> there's NO diff
[11:42] <mjt> ie, if i do chroot strace XFree... and just strace XFree
[11:42] <mjt> sure if i do strace chroot XFree.. there's an extra chroot+exec call
[11:43] <mjt> there's alot of differences in timestamps and pids
[11:43] <amu> ogra: yeah, i did it manually before and it works 
[11:43] <amu> mjt: you run a -configure ? 
[11:44] <mjt> lemme look..
[11:44] <mjt> yes.
[11:45] <mjt> but it failed... ;)
[11:45] <amu> mjt: the problem isnt starting X, sorry if I did not explain myself correctly 
[11:46] <jdub> thom: ping?
[11:46] <mjt> now it completed successefully -- Xfree wants /dev/mouse to be here
[11:47] <amu> ..oo00 
[11:48] <ogra> amu: -allowMouseOpenFail
[11:49] <amu> mjt: but good idea i've a new hoary chroot for myself :) i didnt checked it on my local system :)  
[11:49] <mjt> good idea? wich one? ;)
[11:49] <amu> both ;) 
[11:50] <amu> ogra: mjt: thx ... 
[11:50] <mjt> hmm
[11:51] <mjt> either way, strace should not produce no output
[11:51] <amu> somethimes it helps if you just tell your problem to other, meanwhile you get other ideas ;)    
[11:51] <ogra> :)
[11:51] <amu> mjt: right
[11:52] <sensebend> thanks Ubuntu devs for the new GAIM and k3b in the hoary repo :)
[11:53] <amu> mjt: ex. set an exit before the command is executed, running it by hand, so i can watch what happen, the script just die's   
[11:55] <amu> mjt: exit0 to the shell  
[12:01] <mdz> Kamion: did you get my message about cdrom-detect not doing what we expected?
[12:01] <mdz> Kamion: never mind, I think I'm on crack