| mdz | since we've sliced up the standard library in some interesting ways | 12:12 |
|---|---|---|
| mdz | we should have some way to confirm that the remaining modules actually work | 12:12 |
| doko | there is one included, to check for the dependency stuff, which is run after the build. | 12:12 |
| mdz | (without full python installed) | 12:12 |
| lamont_r | Kamion: and it's in hoary{,.buildd}? | 12:12 |
| mdz | doko: what does it do? just import the modules? | 12:12 |
| mdz | I was thinking about some simple unit tests | 12:13 |
| Mithrandir | doesn't python have unit tests? | 12:13 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: yes | 12:13 |
| doko | import the modules and check that all dependencies are fulfilled. | 12:13 |
| mdz | doko: would it be feasible to adapt the existing unit tests for this purpose? | 12:13 |
| mdz | so that they use /usr/bin/python and /usr/lib/pythonX.Y rather than the ones in the build tree? | 12:13 |
| doko | ok, I'll look to explicitely check the modules in -minimal and let the build fail on regressions. | 12:14 |
| Kamion | lamont_r: not .buildd | 12:14 |
| mdz | ok | 12:14 |
| Kamion | lamont_r: that's just waiting for your ack though | 12:14 |
| lamont_r | please | 12:15 |
| Kamion | ok | 12:15 |
| lamont_r | otherwise the buildd installs it and then can't uninstall it afterwards. | 12:15 |
| mdz | amu: we need to sync up on live CD stuff; I'm going to start doing active development on it very soon | 12:15 |
| doko | mdz: and to package the these tests in an own package? | 12:15 |
| lamont_r | Essential: yes --> in .buildd | 12:15 |
| mdz | doko: I don't think it's necessary | 12:15 |
| amu | mdz: nice, soon means? | 12:15 |
| mdz | doko: if you can find a way to run the tests during the build, with an interpreter that can only access the -minimal modules, that would be fine | 12:15 |
| lamont_r | mdz: would be nice to have the build process as it currently sits running somewhere, if it's ready, otherwise just available for the rest of us to play too.... | 12:16 |
| mdz | amu: what time will you go to sleep tonight? ;-) | 12:16 |
| doko | ok, I'll look at that. | 12:16 |
| amu | mdz: *g* | 12:16 |
| Kamion | lamont_r: ah, never thought of that. uploaded. | 12:16 |
| lamont_r | thanks | 12:16 |
| mdz | lamont_r: in order to get the real process going, we need to finish the debian-installer mods | 12:16 |
| Kamion | amu has sent me some diffs, I looked at them today | 12:17 |
| mdz | lamont_r: the other piece is to arrange for automated builds of the desktop live image | 12:17 |
| mdz | lamont_r: I'd be thrilled if you would take responsibility for that piece | 12:17 |
| lamont_r | mdz: OK. what I guess I was saying is that I would like to play/fix it as well, although my schedule for the week is pretty busy now... | 12:17 |
| Kamion | they don't seem very ready to integrate though; lots of temporary bits, and cdrom-live seems to be a literal copy of cdrom or close to it | 12:17 |
| amu | Kamion: guess now with ubuntu13 they are totally outdated :) | 12:17 |
| === lamont_r will own the automated piece - need to get the unautomated piece to get that set up though. | ||
| Kamion | amu: try 20041227ubuntu1 ;) | 12:17 |
| mdz | lamont_r: basically, we need to do an automated nightly debootstrap + install desktop task, make a filesystem out of it, and compress it with the cloop utils | 12:17 |
| Kamion | but no, not particularly, they just won't really be useful until you've uploaded the extra udebs that need to go in your initrd | 12:18 |
| fabbione | that's quite simple... | 12:18 |
| mdz | lamont_r: that should be doable with no dependencies on anything that amu or I are doing | 12:18 |
| lamont_r | mdz: and then upload that .img? | 12:18 |
| amu | Kamion: hehe, searched yesterday where ex. contychooset are :) lost in space | 12:18 |
| elmo | is this the image that doesn't rsync? | 12:19 |
| amu | set/ser | 12:19 |
| lamont_r | elmo: yeppers | 12:19 |
| mdz | elmo: yes | 12:19 |
| mdz | so you guys need to decide where to put that | 12:19 |
| mdz | so there will be one piece built by d-i and processed in the usual way | 12:19 |
| lamont_r | mdz: what if we skipped the cloop utils compression, and did that at buld time. | 12:19 |
| elmo | as long as it's not releases.u.c, I don't suppose I care | 12:19 |
| mdz | and a second piece that is the output of lamont's process | 12:19 |
| lamont_r | then it could rsync better | 12:19 |
| mdz | the live CD build process will take as input the d-i bit, and lamont's bit, and put them together into an .iso | 12:19 |
| Kamion | mdz: just to note, I feel relatively strongly that monolithic-live or similar shouldn't be the production thing | 12:20 |
| mdz | Kamion: meaning what, specifically? | 12:20 |
| Kamion | I wasn't sure from what you guys were doing whether you were assuming you'd be using monolithic-live | 12:20 |
| Kamion | the d-i initrd that includes all your udebs | 12:20 |
| Kamion | rather than just enough to decide what to do and retrieve more udebs | 12:20 |
| mdz | Kamion: it doesn't much matter to me whether it's monolithic or not, but if there are issues with how we carve up the configs/ stuff, we need to know that now | 12:20 |
| mdz | i.e., whether we have a separate -live config, and at what point in the tree | 12:20 |
| Kamion | the cdrom-live as I saw in amu's diff is fine IMO | 12:21 |
| mdz | ok, great | 12:21 |
| Kamion | it just needs some content distinct from cdrom :) | 12:21 |
| mdz | ok | 12:21 |
| mdz | automated testing | 12:21 |
| mdz | we agreed on the scope for that in Mataro, but the notes don't seem to be up yet | 12:22 |
| elmo | <insanely wishful>has the INEEDROOTKTHXBYE misfeature been fixed yet?</> | 12:22 |
| elmo | [for live builds] | 12:22 |
| Kamion | not in debootstrap, to my knowledge ... | 12:22 |
| lamont_r | elmo: will need debootstrap... | 12:22 |
| lamont_r | but can at least run in a chroot. | 12:22 |
| lamont_r | or xen, or whatever... | 12:22 |
| mdz | elmo: the CD building part and the d-i building part are both fine in that respect | 12:22 |
| mdz | elmo: lamont's bit which installs desktop will be tough to do without root | 12:22 |
| Mithrandir | fakechroot might be worth a shot? | 12:22 |
| === lamont_r makes a note to try fakeroot debootstrap for giggles | ||
| amu | elmo: no more such a big problem, we're knoppix free now | 12:23 |
| mdz | pitti: are you comfortable with the scope and deadlines for automated testing? | 12:23 |
| fabbione | lamont_r: it doesn't work.. i tried that... | 12:23 |
| lamont_r | fabbione: ok | 12:23 |
| pitti | mdz: I thought we should only do some example packages for Hoary? | 12:23 |
| mdz | pitti: we agreed to do automated install/remove for every package | 12:24 |
| pitti | mdz: find an appropriate framework and do a handful of representative examples? | 12:24 |
| Mithrandir | lamont_r: fake_ch_root. | 12:24 |
| mdz | pitti: the per-package tests are a nice-to-have for hoary, but not required | 12:24 |
| pitti | mdz: yes, but that wasn't assigned to me? | 12:24 |
| mdz | pitti: was that the bit that Kamion accepted? | 12:24 |
| pitti | mdz: not sure | 12:24 |
| pitti | yes, it was | 12:25 |
| pitti | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AutomatedTesting, last paragraph | 12:25 |
| mdz | ah | 12:25 |
| pitti | but Kamion probably needs some support for that... | 12:25 |
| pitti | mdz: I just never thought about this so far | 12:25 |
| mdz | Kamion: given that featurefreeze doesn't restrict automated testing development, do you think you want to take that on after all? | 12:25 |
| mdz | Kamion: let me know when you return | 12:27 |
| mdz | smurfix: are you still interested in the keyboard layout selector? | 12:27 |
| smurfix | sure | 12:27 |
| smurfix | Did you look at the stuff I sent you? | 12:27 |
| mdz | smurfix: I'm concerned about the feature freeze deadline vs. your hand injury; do you think you will be able to meet the schedule? | 12:27 |
| mdz | smurfix: only very briefly; I've been on holiday | 12:28 |
| smurfix | My hand's mostly working right again | 12:28 |
| mdz | oh, good to hear | 12:28 |
| mdz | smurfix: if it is achievable for you, I am more than happy to make a deal | 12:28 |
| smurfix | They took off the iron early. | 12:28 |
| smurfix | I think so | 12:28 |
| mdz | let's discuss details after the meeting or via email | 12:29 |
| Kamion | mdz: I may be able to help but I'd prefer not to lead it | 12:29 |
| smurfix | mdz: , it's kindos late | 12:29 |
| mdz | thom: how do you feel about automated testing? | 12:29 |
| smurfix | s/,/email, | 12:29 |
| mdz | smurfix: ok | 12:29 |
| mdz | elmo: also, what's your assessment as far as getting xen or whatever set up for this? | 12:29 |
| elmo | ah,m | 12:30 |
| mdz | elmo: if you don't think it can be done, we can use a chroot on a dedicated machine and get about 95% of the way | 12:30 |
| thom | mdz: interested. | 12:30 |
| elmo | mdz: what's the deadline for xen? | 12:30 |
| elmo | and has anyone looked at it at all yet? | 12:30 |
| mdz | elmo: in order to get reasonable benefits from automated testing, it should be up and running as soon after feature freeze as possible | 12:31 |
| Keybuk | xen depends on doogie | 12:31 |
| Keybuk | this scares me :p | 12:31 |
| mdz | Keybuk: like hell it does | 12:31 |
| elmo | keybuk?! | 12:31 |
| Keybuk | isn't that his current shiny toy? | 12:31 |
| lamont_r | Keybuk: he's not upstream | 12:31 |
| elmo | Keybuk: he likes to drool on it; that hardly makes it dependent on him | 12:31 |
| mdz | I think he's moved on | 12:31 |
| Keybuk | ahh, could be, has been a few weeks | 12:31 |
| elmo | err, public meeting. must. control. cyclone. | 12:31 |
| fabbione | lol | 12:32 |
| elmo | mdz: err, feature freeze is when? sorry, lost track, the dates keep being changed or talk about changing | 12:32 |
| jdub | elmo: cyclones fine, just keep the waves to yourself. | 12:32 |
| mdz | thom: I'm happy for you to own that piece of it (installation/removal testing), and work with pitti on the package-specific test portion | 12:32 |
| mdz | elmo: 2005-02-09, I think | 12:32 |
| jdub | yes | 12:33 |
| elmo | oh, yeah, I can do Xen by then | 12:33 |
| fabbione | that's soo close to my wedding... | 12:33 |
| Keybuk | jdub: I don't know why you're worried about going to jail over MP3 players, you're clearly going to hell :p | 12:33 |
| thom | Keybuk: weve known that for a long time | 12:33 |
| thom | mdz: ack. | 12:33 |
| mdz | fabbione: most of your feature work is done | 12:33 |
| mdz | thom: ok, thanks | 12:33 |
| fabbione | mdz: i am more worried of last minute mess | 12:34 |
| jdub | thom: the bridal party has a CHILDREN'S TABLE. beware. | 12:34 |
| mdz | fabbione: we save that for the release | 12:34 |
| mdz | jdub: what's the latest on the gdm/panel bounties? | 12:34 |
| fabbione | mdz: ok :-) thanks ;) | 12:34 |
| jdub | mdz: see way above for panel, part of gdm is done, but mark extended it somewhat at mataro :) | 12:35 |
| mdz | jdub: please update the wiki with status info | 12:35 |
| jdub | mdz: ok | 12:35 |
| mdz | thom: netapplet? | 12:35 |
| jdub | hrm, didn't we want resolvconf? | 12:36 |
| thom | artwork done, know how to do the appletification, was planning to do it tomorrow am | 12:36 |
| jdub | thom: i have menu suggestions to send too | 12:36 |
| mdz | thom, jdub: at what point shall we add it to desktop? | 12:36 |
| mdz | jdub: context for resolvconf? | 12:36 |
| sivang | has the meeting ajorned? | 12:36 |
| mdz | sivang: not hardly | 12:36 |
| === doko_ [doko@dsl-082-082-189-011.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| jdub | thom: also, davyd knows how to do applet replacement foo | 12:37 |
| thom | jdub: lay on, macduff | 12:37 |
| sivang | mdz: k | 12:37 |
| thom | jdub: AHR! | 12:37 |
| jdub | thom: (are we going to replace the wifi applet?) | 12:37 |
| mdz | jdub: any word on icons? | 12:37 |
| jdub | thom: i'm a little bit uncomfortable with that, because it's not happening upstream | 12:37 |
| jdub | mdz: icons way up too | 12:37 |
| jdub | mdz: context for resolvconf is realising it's not installed on my laptop | 12:38 |
| thom | jdub: i think it makes a lot of sense to, but it needs discussion - having two wifi strength indicators is SUCKADELIC | 12:38 |
| mdz | jdub: icons are on Mark's high priority list; we need to see something relatively soon if it's going to happen | 12:38 |
| mdz | I don't think this can wait until preview timeframe at all | 12:38 |
| mdz | it already fell through for Warty | 12:38 |
| jdub | thom: mmm, and if we replace the wifi applet's guid, it jsut means taht logging in on other systems will give you the old applet | 12:39 |
| jdub | mdz: not wait until, but it still be updated through then | 12:39 |
| jdub | can still | 12:39 |
| mdz | jdub: sure, so long as it's well underway | 12:39 |
| jdub | yeah | 12:39 |
| jdub | so hammering that out this and next week | 12:39 |
| mdz | i.e., we have the guy, and have known good stuff in hand | 12:39 |
| mdz | thanks | 12:39 |
| mdz | we still have this handwavy goal of making video playback better | 12:40 |
| thom | jdub: um. can we talk more thoroughly about this with davyd, see if he has smart ideas about how we do it? (ie, not right now) | 12:40 |
| Keybuk | all gstreamer plugins in main? *duck* :p | 12:40 |
| seb128 | ffmpeg in main ! | 12:40 |
| fabbione | let's put mplayer with codecs in main... | 12:40 |
| === seb128 hides | ||
| jdub | it was less handwavy when we decided it should be "totem should be able to handle flumotion streams, vorbis and theora, etc." | 12:40 |
| mdz | the two concrete things there were the new gstreamer bits from upstream, and getting gst-ffmpeg into multiverse | 12:40 |
| jdub | thom: yeah, he does | 12:41 |
| mdz | jdub: totem can already play those, it just doesn't do it as well as we'd like | 12:41 |
| jdub | mdz: the goal was to do them well | 12:41 |
| mdz | I thought someone stepped forward to make gst-ffmpeg happen during Mataro | 12:41 |
| jdub | mdz: ffmpeg was just an additional bonus | 12:41 |
| jdub | yes, it should be in debian soon | 12:41 |
| seb128 | I'm working with the debian maintainer to get it uploaded | 12:41 |
| jdub | elmo: ...? :) | 12:41 |
| seb128 | should happen RSN | 12:41 |
| jdub | rock | 12:41 |
| mdz | ok, great | 12:41 |
| mdz | jdub: I constantly forget what this SVG stuff is about | 12:42 |
| mdz | jdub: but you and Mark have a dialog about it, right? | 12:42 |
| jdub | mdz: very random handwavy stuff. "make things prettier", basically. hardly anything to do with svg. | 12:42 |
| elmo | oh, crap! | 12:42 |
| jdub | mdz: yeah | 12:42 |
| mdz | jdub: any concrete goals? | 12:42 |
| jdub | not really | 12:42 |
| mdz | sweet | 12:42 |
| jdub | but it's related to the gdm stuff | 12:43 |
| jdub | so i can pick off a few tasty nibbles and satisfy it | 12:43 |
| Mithrandir | it was the gdm-not-stretch-and-fuck-up-the-login-screen thingy, wasn't it? | 12:43 |
| mdz | usplash, sladen and I are working that out | 12:43 |
| thom | we need to seed readahead, btw | 12:43 |
| jdub | Mithrandir: no, that's a gdm goal ;) | 12:43 |
| mdz | thom: is that all we need to do? | 12:43 |
| mdz | thom: how does it decide what to read ahead? | 12:43 |
| thom | at the moment, the list is generated manually and shipped in the package | 12:44 |
| Kamion | elmo: hmm? | 12:44 |
| fabbione | thom: btw... i have a patch to improve kernel read-ahead... | 12:44 |
| thom | fabbione: oh? | 12:44 |
| elmo | Kamion: just forgot to do some new processing I said I would in mataro | 12:45 |
| fabbione | thom: if you want to get some stats, i can push you the same kernel with the patch and see if it helps | 12:45 |
| thom | mdz: automatic updates need a lot more thought at this point | 12:45 |
| mdz | thom: was it a conscious decision to have it ahead of mountnfs.sh in the boot sequence? it would seem to disable itself for /usr-on-NFS | 12:45 |
| fabbione | thom: kernel does some read_ahead on its own... | 12:45 |
| mdz | thom: yeah, don't worry about automatic updates for hoary, certainly | 12:45 |
| Keybuk | mdz: how much work does usplash need to get a beta uploaded? | 12:46 |
| smurfix | elmo: Pity, I was going to remind you tomorrow. ;-) (Please also do python2.4-docutils so that it may migrate to Ubuntu.) | 12:46 |
| jdub | we should get usplash in quickly | 12:46 |
| === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| thom | mdz: readahead doesn't work with NFS, and hotplug is ahead of it, so it seemed like a pretty harmless win... | 12:47 |
| mdz | Keybuk: not too much, I don't think; we're going with a fairly conservative goal for hoary. sladen will have specifics | 12:47 |
| mdz | thom: ok | 12:47 |
| mdz | any objections to seeding readahead? | 12:47 |
| mdz | (desktop, presumably) | 12:47 |
| jdub | none | 12:47 |
| thom | desktop, definitely | 12:47 |
| Mithrandir | go ahead. | 12:47 |
| mdz | thom: go for it | 12:47 |
| thom | ok, added to my list | 12:47 |
| mdz | kamion already updated us on questions-before-reboot work | 12:48 |
| Keybuk | mdz: it'd be nice to see some shiny packaged | 12:48 |
| jdub | that will score a few score more testers ;) | 12:48 |
| mdz | Kamion: DVD images? | 12:48 |
| Kamion | mdz: in slightly more detail, the timezone question is (just about) done, password and apt-setup stuff still to go | 12:48 |
| Kamion | no progress on those since Mataro | 12:48 |
| lamont_r | mdz: adding what features to make them need a dvd? | 12:49 |
| mdz | lamont_r: DVD images = producing DVD | 12:49 |
| mdz | DVD-sized images with supported on them | 12:49 |
| === ogra [~ogra@p508EA1D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| mdz | Kamion: being server-side, that one has some flexibility as far as the feature freeze as well, but I very much want to see it happen for hoary | 12:50 |
| mdz | Kamion: is this something that could be handed off to lamont, perhaps? | 12:50 |
| Kamion | yeah, I know, I have no intention of deferring forever | 12:50 |
| Kamion | mmm, bit tricky at the moment, will see | 12:52 |
| mdz | ok, follow up with him if it makes sense to divide it somehow | 12:52 |
| mdz | I don't see a need to go over all of the targets of opportunity; if there's anything that folks want to talk about from that section, please raise it | 12:52 |
| jdub | we should have a webmail thingy in main | 12:52 |
| mdz | I'd like to hear from someone on the doc team about the documentation goals | 12:52 |
| jdub | *cough* sorry | 12:52 |
| lamont_r | laptopsuspend? | 12:52 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Is it worth bringing up the suspend/resume thing briefly? | 12:52 |
| Kamion | oh, there are still pieces of apt authentication to do | 12:52 |
| mdz | mjg59: sure | 12:52 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Now? :) | 12:52 |
| mdz | mjg59: if you'd prefer to summarize on the list later, that's fine, but here and now is also fine | 12:53 |
| mvo_ | Kamion: what exactly? can I help? | 12:53 |
| mdz | we're nearing the 2 hour mark, and experience shows that we fade fast :-) | 12:53 |
| Kamion | cdimage signing and verification | 12:54 |
| Kamion | I've just sent the cdimage public key to the keyservers | 12:54 |
| mjg59 | Concentrating on x86: | 12:54 |
| mjg59 | Suspend to disk should work just about everywhere. | 12:54 |
| johnlevin | is there anyone (else) from the doc team here? | 12:54 |
| mjg59 | So that's a win. | 12:54 |
| sivang | johnlevin: I am | 12:54 |
| === Keybuk starts weeping during this bit :p (not to mention giving the X40 cabal a target) | ||
| mdz | mjg59: what shall we do about default event stuff for hoary? | 12:54 |
| mdz | now that this stuff works and all, it would be great to actually have some interface to it :-) | 12:54 |
| lamont_r | mjg59: and resume? :-) | 12:54 |
| mjg59 | Suspend to RAM is going to work on an unknown number of machines - based on personal experience I'd tend towards ~80%, but it's possible the machines I've tested have been better quality than average | 12:54 |
| johnlevin | sivang: what do you knwo of the doc goals for hoary? | 12:54 |
| sivang | mjg59: we should try see why it doesn't work on the inspiron 8200 with nVidia. :-) | 12:54 |
| mjg59 | sivang: If you're using nvidia's drivers, you have no chance | 12:54 |
| mjg59 | Oh, yeah. StR with binary X drivers = not happening | 12:55 |
| daniels | the nvidia binary driver is not acpi-aware | 12:55 |
| daniels | or any pm-aware, iirc | 12:55 |
| lamont_r | daniels: is that all that's needed? | 12:55 |
| mdz | mjg59, jdub, seb128: is it possible to get a 'hibernate' thing into the menu, logout dialog or someplace appropriatae like that? | 12:55 |
| mjg59 | Making suspend to disk available by default is reasonable | 12:55 |
| sivang | johnlevin: hmm, mostly there is now a quick guide (refcard) , the big handbook, man pages reworking, Install manual love and gnome docs love. | 12:55 |
| sivang | mdz: that would be cool. | 12:56 |
| mjg59 | I'd lean towards having StR there, but disabled by default | 12:56 |
| seb128 | mdz: yes, that's trivial to do, just give me the command to run | 12:56 |
| mjg59 | The real issue is that we need a configuration layer | 12:56 |
| mdz | seb128: great, and it will be run as root? | 12:56 |
| sivang | mjg59: noted. Will test with the free driver in in 30 miins. | 12:56 |
| mjg59 | All the code is in shell, so it's easy enough to just source from a config file | 12:56 |
| seb128 | mdz: probably like the reboot/halt stuff, with gdmflexiserver | 12:56 |
| mdz | seb128: great | 12:57 |
| elmo | can we pretty please apply the apple patch before release? | 12:57 |
| mjg59 | Ah, good point. Yeah, we should apply the PPC suspend to disk patch (along with the G4 iBook suspend to RAM stuff) | 12:57 |
| mjg59 | I have no access to PPC hardware, so someone else is going to have to test this stuff | 12:57 |
| Keybuk | going through a Bugzilla ACPI patch harvest would be quite handy | 12:57 |
| elmo | ppc supsed to disk? | 12:57 |
| mjg59 | elmo: Yeah | 12:57 |
| elmo | the suspend to ram patch isn't just for ibooks, it's for any G4 mac laptops | 12:58 |
| mdz | mjg59: can you send seb128 what he needs in order to add a hibernate action? | 12:58 |
| elmo | and I think it clashes with suspend to disk patches | 12:58 |
| Kamion | ibooks and albooks, not sure about tibooks | 12:58 |
| elmo | and I test it every day :) | 12:58 |
| mdz | mjg59: or is it just echo disk > /sys/power/state ? | 12:58 |
| mjg59 | elmo: Ah, rock | 12:58 |
| Kamion | it's working great for me too | 12:58 |
| mjg59 | mdz: No, it needs to run a script | 12:58 |
| sivang | mjg59: hibernate options doesn't need a partiton to hibernate to prior to actually trying that? | 12:58 |
| Keybuk | doesn't acpi-support need to go into the archive first? | 12:58 |
| mjg59 | sivang: It just needs swap | 12:58 |
| mdz | sivang: it uses swap | 12:58 |
| === lamont_r wants to get suspend-to-anything working | ||
| mjg59 | Oh, yes | 12:59 |
| mdz | mjg59: oh, what about getting resume= automagically set up? | 12:59 |
| mjg59 | The installer needs to add resume= to the default kernel paramaters | 12:59 |
| sivang | mjg59: ok, cool, does this automagically? (i.e. detect swap partition) | 12:59 |
| fabbione | elmo: i doubt we will apply it | 12:59 |
| mjg59 | sivang: No, it needs a kernel paramater | 12:59 |
| fabbione | elmo: it is big and buggy.. according to benh there is at least one known regression | 12:59 |
| mdz | mjg59: what happens if there are multiple swap partitions? | 12:59 |
| mjg59 | Uh, eter | 12:59 |
| sivang | mjg59: ok, I'll talk to you after the meeting. | 12:59 |
| elmo | fabbione: uh, what regression? | 12:59 |
| mjg59 | mdz: It'll use whichever one resume= points to | 12:59 |
| mdz | mjg59: it seems more sensible to have initrd-tools save the necessary info in the initrd | 12:59 |
| Keybuk | suspend-to-disk would work for me if X.org wouldn't crap itself and hang the machine | 12:59 |
| fabbione | elmo: ati hangs on resume in some cases | 01:00 |
| elmo | it's not that buggy dude, I've been using it since version #1 and never had a crash | 01:00 |
| mdz | mjg59: resume= seems like a very awkward way to do it | 01:00 |
| elmo | fabbione: dude, how can that possibly be a regression? it didn't resume AT ALL before | 01:00 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Hrm. It /could/ be done that way. | 01:00 |
| fabbione | elmo: benh consider it a regression because it touches the ati driver for all arches... | 01:00 |
| mjg59 | Need some rewriting. Open a bug on it and we'll discuss it? | 01:00 |
| mdz | mjg59: does the kernel API already support telling it where to resume from (directly, rather than resume=?) | 01:00 |
| elmo | meh, conditionally apply it then :P | 01:00 |
| mdz | mjg59: ok, will do | 01:00 |
| amu | mdz: we forget crypto? | 01:01 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Yeah, with my patch in there | 01:01 |
| elmo | that patch is a SERIOUS usability thing for mac laptops | 01:01 |
| fabbione | elmo: i tought about it.. yes... that means a lot of extra work to maintain ppc kernels.... | 01:01 |
| elmo | that one patch, and you have a suspendable laptop, no fucking around with ACPI, VBE, vm86 or any of that crap, it just works. | 01:01 |
| mjg59 | How about we open separate bugs for the right way of dealing with resume=, user configuration, gdm integration and Mac support? | 01:01 |
| mdz | amu: there are a lot of targets of opportunity, and we are out of time | 01:01 |
| mdz | amu: if there is something specific you'd like to talk about, please raise it now | 01:01 |
| fabbione | but i guess that there is no otherway around since i will have to do it for hppa too | 01:01 |
| mdz | otherwise, I'd like to close the meeting soon | 01:01 |
| mdz | does everyone know what their deliverables are from this meeting? | 01:02 |
| lamont_r | mdz: if not, I'll need to take about a 10 minute break... | 01:02 |
| amu | mdz: well there was a voice it would be nice if we can crypt our homedir's ... | 01:02 |
| lamont_r | mdz: I don't think that's a valid question... | 01:02 |
| elmo | who's using the xen stuff I'm doing? thom &| lamont ? | 01:02 |
| lamont_r | since we _think_ we know them... | 01:02 |
| ogra | heh | 01:02 |
| mdz | elmo: thom, pitti, lamont | 01:02 |
| pitti | here | 01:03 |
| elmo | k | 01:03 |
| fabbione | elmo: is xen somekind of kernel related module? | 01:03 |
| mdz | lamont_r: that was a subtle way of saying "you're supposed to write these things down when you agree to do them" :-P | 01:03 |
| pitti | mdz: I'm not using xen, if you meant that | 01:03 |
| mdz | pitti: for automated testing | 01:03 |
| lamont_r | mdz: right. | 01:03 |
| pitti | ah, that one | 01:03 |
| elmo | fabbione: it's like uml and vmware, but on crack. good crack | 01:03 |
| daniels | um, so with unified x configuration | 01:03 |
| elmo | it needs some kernel patches, because atm, it's maintained as a sepearate architecture | 01:04 |
| mdz | fabbione: it is a kernel arch | 01:04 |
| fabbione | elmo: how much confidence do you have on it? | 01:04 |
| daniels | I'll get to that one next week | 01:04 |
| elmo | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/ | 01:04 |
| mdz | fabbione: I don't think we need to merge it into the standard kernel for hoary | 01:04 |
| elmo | fabbione: none - I've not used it before | 01:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: ssshhuuuuusss! | 01:04 |
| elmo | fabbione: we decided to use it in mataro, and I only had my ppc laptop, which it doesn't support | 01:04 |
| mdz | daniels: that's fine; with luck, we'll be ready for it then | 01:04 |
| fabbione | i was trying to give hte kernel to elmo! | 01:04 |
| fabbione | :P | 01:04 |
| elmo | FWIW, I agree with mdz, it doesn't need merged | 01:04 |
| daniels | mdz: sweet | 01:04 |
| fabbione | elmo: ok... | 01:04 |
| mdz | elmo likes to build his own kernels anyway | 01:04 |
| elmo | fabbione: haha, like that'll ever work | 01:05 |
| elmo | mdz: it's my constituional right, damn you | 01:05 |
| elmo | the elmo amendment | 01:05 |
| fabbione | elmo: you may never know.... | 01:05 |
| Keybuk | elmo doesn't even use hotplug or udev | 01:05 |
| fabbione | perhaps you love me so much that you will take care of the kernel while i will be in honeymoon... | 01:05 |
| thom | i thought he did now | 01:05 |
| lamont_r | anything else before I translocate? | 01:05 |
| mdz | so at this point, everyone should know what their feature goal assignments are | 01:06 |
| daniels | critical pieces of infrastructure are not maintained via the 'you touched it last' mechanism | 01:06 |
| mdz | almost all of them have a deadline of FeatureFreeze | 01:06 |
| mdz | which is 2005-02-09 | 01:06 |
| mdz | so feature work is the top priority during that time | 01:06 |
| pitti | mdz: I have one extra point, if you don't kill me | 01:06 |
| mdz | things on the primary goal list are "must haves" | 01:06 |
| mdz | so if you encounter any problems which place them in jeopardy, notify me immediately | 01:07 |
| mdz | likewise for secondary goals, which are not "must haves", but very important | 01:07 |
| mdz | pitti: go ahead | 01:07 |
| pitti | mdz: back in warty time we discussed about the drive icons on the desktop/panel; this is still not sorted out AFAIK | 01:07 |
| jdub | the applet is done | 01:07 |
| pitti | jamesh's driveapplet works somewhat, but is still buggy | 01:07 |
| jdub | it's not on the panel by default though | 01:07 |
| seb128 | we have a place menu now and the drive applet | 01:07 |
| mdz | I thought the long-term plan was to put the drives into the menu? | 01:08 |
| seb128 | -> places | 01:08 |
| mdz | right | 01:08 |
| Keybuk | mdz: you can't unmount from the menu | 01:08 |
| mdz | ah | 01:08 |
| mdz | so they should both go into the menu, and have icons? | 01:08 |
| mdz | is driveapplet something we should seed? | 01:08 |
| pitti | mdz: right now the drive applet allows you to open a nautilus window and to unmount | 01:08 |
| jdub | mdz: it's in gnome-applets | 01:08 |
| mdz | jdub: what's it called in the touchy-feely add to panel menu? | 01:09 |
| jdub | disk mounter | 01:09 |
| jdub | (which is no longer a very good name for it) | 01:10 |
| pitti | it's still quite ugly | 01:10 |
| pitti | but it kinda works at least | 01:10 |
| mdz | it's not even on the radar as far as hoary feature goals | 01:10 |
| pitti | the icons are bad and you cannot unmount a whole drive (only single partitions) | 01:10 |
| mdz | is it going to make it? | 01:10 |
| jdub | it's going to be in hoary | 01:10 |
| jdub | but i don't think we should worry about having it on by default | 01:10 |
| mdz | sure, but if it's to be the solution to the "unmounting things in the desktop is painful" problem, it needs ot be there by default | 01:11 |
| mdz | I guess we can decide on that in the next few weeks | 01:11 |
| jdub | we have desktop icons too atm | 01:11 |
| mdz | jdub: sometimes :-) | 01:11 |
| mdz | (#4597) | 01:12 |
| === hno73 [~Henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] | ||
| mdz | anyway, I think we're finished here | 01:12 |
| fabbione | yeah | 01:12 |
| jdub | anyone have suggestions for webmail stuff we could ship? | 01:12 |
| mdz | no, it all sucks | 01:12 |
| Mithrandir | squirrel WFM | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | jdub: none that don't involve PHP, and I really suggest we don't go that route | 01:12 |
| mdz | squirrelmail is the lesser evil | 01:12 |
| fabbione | pitti: should we take a look at the debstriptranslationtingy? | 01:12 |
| Mithrandir | of course it sucks, but webmail does suck. | 01:12 |
| === pitti likes squirrelmail | ||
| pitti | fabbione: after the meeting? | 01:13 |
| mdz | pitti: do you like fixing all its XSS bugs? ;-) | 01:13 |
| fabbione | pitti: i can start using it on the sparc buildd right now... | 01:13 |
| jdub | we basically can't ship a php one anyway ;) | 01:13 |
| === sivang seconds Keybuk | ||
| mdz | jdub: squirrel doesn't use php4-imap | 01:13 |
| fabbione | pitti: or later today... | 01:13 |
| pitti | mdz: not really :-/ | 01:13 |
| jdub | mdz: oh? | 01:13 |
| mdz | jdub: no, it NIH-es it | 01:13 |
| jdub | it used to | 01:13 |
| jdub | wow, that's brilliant | 01:13 |
| === lamont_r translocates. back in 10-15 minutes | ||
| mdz | jdub: I'd rather squirrelmail's PHP implementation than UW's C implementation, to be honest :-) | 01:14 |
| === fabbione needs badly a smoke.. back in 10 | ||
| mdz | but anyway, we can have the webmail discussion elsewhere | 01:14 |
| mdz | thanks to everyone who participated or lurked | 01:14 |
| mdz | meeting adjourned | 01:15 |
| pitti | thanks mdz | 01:15 |
| fabbione | thanks mdz | 01:15 |
| daniels | cheers | 01:15 |
| mvo_ | thanks | 01:15 |
| === pitti falls asleep | ||
| ogra | thanks | 01:15 |
| sivang | night pitti ! | 01:15 |
| sivang | thanks | 01:15 |
| thom | it's a really "interesting" implementation in php FWICR | 01:15 |
| amu | cheers | 01:15 |
| Keybuk | thom: is it spethial? | 01:15 |
| seb128 | 'night | 01:15 |
| pitti | night sivang | 01:15 |
| ogra | pitti: i'll bugf you tomorrow...sleep well | 01:15 |
| pitti | night all | 01:15 |
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| thom | Keybuk: with extra chestbanging | 01:16 |
| pitti | ogra: I will stay awake for some minutes, though | 01:16 |
| ogra | pitti: lets do it tomorrow after i checked out all this stuff.... | 01:16 |
| pitti | ogra: yes | 01:17 |
| pitti | mdz: I thought again about the po extraction | 01:18 |
| pitti | mdz: although the rosetta guys don't want mo files, we still could use them to build our translation debs | 01:18 |
| pitti | mdz: the question is whether we want that or we should rather wait on importing all packages to rosetta | 01:19 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:smurfix] : Tuesday 11 January 2005: Community Council meeting -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda. Tuesday 18 January 2005: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. | ||
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| diego | Did I miss the meeting? | 02:08 |
| azeem | yes | 02:09 |
| ogra | yup | 02:09 |
| diego | aww, are these logged anywhere? I'm not a developer or anything but I'm interested in reading | 02:09 |
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| sladen | D'oh. /me reads the scroll retrospectively | 02:38 |
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