/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/01/20/#ubuntu-devel.txt

nakeeeI want to translate things to hebrew using rosetta, I thought I would start with xchat12:05
nakeeeI know xchat is partly translated12:05
nakeeehow can I see what version of the hebrew po file is being used?12:05
nakeeeso I won't retranslate things which were translated by the gnome team already12:05
mdznakeee: /join #rosetta12:13
nakeeemdz: where there are even less people?:)12:14
mdznakeee: there may be fewer, but they are the ones who can answer your question (I can't)12:15
mdzyou can also mail the rosetta-users mailing list12:15
Nafallothere is no way in current hoary to empty an CD-RW?12:16
mdzNafallo: only from the command line, afaik12:16
mdzI usually don't bother blanking them; that's one less write cycle that could be used for real data12:17
Nafallomdz: hmm, need to write an ISO to it. I HAVE to blank it before?12:18
Nafallocan't get cdrecord to show me what dev= to use :-P12:18
Nafallo/dev/hdc should be ATA:something?12:19
nakeee212:22
nakeeeno?12:23
crimsunNafallo: -dev=/dev/hdc12:24
Nafallonakeee: 0,2,0 worked. crimsun: ah, THAT easy :-)12:25
Nafallo-dev=/dev/hdc worked best :-)12:26
mdzNafallo: right-click on the ISO in nautilus, click "write to CD"12:30
mdzNafallo: it will automatically blank it if necessary12:30
Nafallomdz: DOOH! to easy ;-)12:31
mdzthere is no way to tell it "just blank the CD and don't write anything to it", though, which is what I thought you were asking12:31
Nafallomdz: well, I was. but with the goal to write an ISO-image ;-).12:32
=== Nafallo blanks on a console atm *
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jdubdaniels: ping12:34
elmohow do I see what's making outgoing DNS calls?12:35
elmoas, in what process12:35
Nafallowhile I see alive ubs, what does debzilla@ubuntu.com as assigned to do in bugzilla?12:36
mdzelmo: hmm...you can match on pid in netfilter, but I don't think you can convince it to log it afaik12:39
elmodamn.. something cached my old resolv.conf from when I was in the data centre12:39
mdzelmo: filter outbound DNS so that it has to timeout, then use netstat to see what has the socket open?12:39
elmoAHA12:40
elmoit's spamassassin12:40
elmoPOS12:40
mdzyou knew it was a POS already, no sympathy12:40
elmomdz: meh, I'll subscribe you to ftpmaster, admin and some of the inanely-widely-publicized-since-the-dawn-of-time debian addresses and then see who needs the sympathy12:41
KeybukSA3 is more POS than SA212:41
elmois there anything else that's as good and most importantly doesn't require training?12:43
Treenakselmo: echo "elmo:|cat>/dev/null" >> /etc/aliases ; newaliases12:45
elmoTreenaks: thanks dude, you're a star12:47
Treenakselmo: it gets rid of all spam and doesn't require training12:48
=== Treenaks blames it on the alcohol
mdzelmo: I already get a huge amount of spam12:52
mdzelmo: my addresses are, er, widely publicized :-P12:52
mdzbogofilter does very well for me12:53
elmoisn't bogofilter the one that uses libdb and constantly needs upgrades every second week?12:54
elmoand does it work without training, a la.. err, crm114?12:54
Clintyes, and no.12:55
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bob2so, yeah, python2.4 doesn't like this whole installing thing01:44
bob2Setting up python2.4 (2.4-2ubuntu5) ...01:45
bob2Compiling python modules in /usr/lib/python2.4 ...01:45
bob2/usr/bin/python2.4: can't open file '/usr/lib/python2.4/compileall.py': [Errno 2]  No such file or directory01:45
jdubelmo: bogofilter is the one that changes command line parameter semantics -> to their polar opposites ;-)01:49
Clintthat only happened once01:53
jdubi only pulled the trigger of the nailgun once02:01
Clintnext fun breakage might be to store database words in UTF-802:02
Clintis everyone excited?02:02
Keybuk. o O { if only zsh supported utf-8 }02:13
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Clint. o O {if only people wouldn't discuss zsh and utf-8 every day without submitting patches}02:14
KeybukI looked once, I got scared02:14
Clintit's scary02:14
Keybukthere did seem to be a Tom Lord "reimplement the world" going on inside zsh02:14
Clintwell, a lot of that predates the world02:14
Clintlike all the funky memory management stuff predates mmap02:15
Keybukthen again, I can't talk about packages not supporting utf-802:16
Keybukho-hum02:16
dokobob2: from which python2.4 version do you upgrade?02:17
Clintat some point, someone will get frustrated enough to write some really hacky patches to make it look like it does utf-8, a la readline02:17
bob2doko: 2.4-2ubuntu1 -> ubuntu502:19
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sladenKeybuk:   bash  Provides: zsh02:22
dokobob2: and python2.4-minimal is already installed?02:23
Keybuksladen: except it doesn't02:23
bob2doko: hrm, yes, at ubuntu102:24
Keybukbash doesn't do anywhere near as much of the weird (but infinitely useful) shit zsh dose02:24
bob2doko: maybe aptitude is being stupid and put it on hold02:24
Keybukmv ^Sources(@) ..02:24
Keybuk"move all symlinks, except Sources to the parent directory"02:24
Clintbash is only about 5 years behind zsh in terms of usability02:24
dokobob2: ok, I see, please update -minimal as well. the dependency is still unversioned. will fix it.02:25
bob2doko: ahh02:25
bob2doko: cool, thanks!02:25
sladenfind -type l | xargs mv --target-directory=..     # nothing could be simpler02:26
Keybuksladen: you forgot -not -name Sources02:26
sladenyeah, still might fit on one line with a 132 column display02:26
sladenand to cope with spaces, you'd need  -print0 | xargs -0  too02:27
Keybuksorry, remind me, are you defending bash or not? :)02:28
bob2doko: ah, perfect, thanks02:29
Keybukforeach FILE (*) mv $FILE ${FILE/^\([^.] \)\./\1\/}02:34
Keybukand friends too :p02:34
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davydis the gnome-panel package maintainer around?02:35
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bob2davyd: it's probably a gtk bug02:35
davyd(who appears to be seb)02:35
davydbob2: hmm? I don't want to chat about bugs02:35
Keybukwrong timezone for seb really02:37
davydyeah02:37
=== davyd does the maths, about 2.30am over there?
davydI really want a CVS gnome-panel package02:37
sivangjdub: you have that streaming video you took of me and some others over the crystal room? :)02:37
davydI was going to roll myself one02:37
davydbut you gents have much patchage crack in there02:37
Keybukdavyd: hmm?  you should just be able to copy the debian/ directory in02:38
mjg59I so desperately need more RAM02:38
sivangmjg59: how much do you have?02:38
davydKeybuk: that's what I would have thought02:38
Keybukyou might get bitten by debian/patches/01_layout02:38
davydKeybuk: indeed... what is that?02:38
Keybukchanges Application/System to Application/Places/System02:39
Keybukjust nuke the patches that don't work02:39
davydKeybuk: aah02:39
mjg59sivang: 256MB02:42
sivangdavyd: well, for me it's 3:42, so for seb around 2:42...:)02:42
davydsivang: yeah, they're on +1 at the moment?02:43
davydWEST?02:43
sivangdavyd: I think so, due to non daylight savings, when they are using daylight savings it's the same time as here..02:44
sivangmjg59: oh, I bet your system chokes when running OOo together with moz ..:-/02:44
sivangmjg59: I have 0.5G ram, and still machine gets slow when using OOo/Web together with evo|moz|thunderbird02:45
zenroxsivang,  have you tried prelinking03:02
zenroxsivang,  try this http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9864&postcount=8003:03
sivangzenrox: no, can't say I have. You have a link for how to make it work?03:03
zenroxdoes help reduce load time on firefox and OOo03:04
zenroxi have bonic running and my dvds dont slow down03:04
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sivangzenrox: this is documented somehwere other then the uf.o ?03:05
zenroxworks for me03:05
zenroxand suse uses it03:05
zenroxat install of every program03:05
sivangzenrox: nice03:10
zenroxdoes that help03:11
sivangzenrox: I will install beofre I go to sleep, currently working on something can't afford to let the system become less responsive03:12
zenroxwont slow it down too much03:13
davydhmm, I am going to have to build every gorram module under the Sun I think03:14
davydthis is annoying03:14
jdubpants off davyd 03:28
davydPANTS!03:29
jdubhaving a fun pre-freeze hack weekend?03:29
davydalso hi03:29
davydjdub: yeah, except I realized the one problem in my new, no work dev environment03:29
davydI need CVS gnome-panel, and I can't pull the same hack with gnome-panel as I can with applets03:29
davydthis makes me sad :(03:30
jdub:-)03:31
jdubhrm, you can use the funny bonobo env vars to do the same thing03:31
davydjdub: panel is not started by bonobo though03:31
davydso my bonobo magic is no good03:31
jdubyou can start panel on its own03:32
jdubhold on, on phone03:32
davydjdub: yeah, that's worth a try03:32
davydI was going to just roll a package, but it's proving to be a bitch03:33
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mdzKeybuk: how do you think we should handle it if we were to switch to udevsend as default?  have init.d/udev set kernel.hotplug, and then init.d/hotplug set it iff it's not set to udevsend, or something like that?04:08
Keybukyeah, that's how I was handling it04:08
Keybukudev's first init script sets it04:08
Keybukand hotplug won't spam over the top if it sees udevsend in there04:08
mdzKeybuk: what's this ipw/firmware thing about?  ipw2200 seems happy enough with udevsend04:14
Keybukwhich version of udev?04:15
mdzii  udev           0.050-3ubuntu1 /dev/ management daemon04:15
Keybukthe problem is that the kernel issues a firmware hotplug event to get the firmware loaded04:16
Keybukand the driver only waits 10s04:16
mdzI don't have an ipw2100 to test, though04:16
Keybukso if udev doesn't (for whatever reason) handle the event straight away, you get no firmware04:16
Keybukand the driver sulks04:16
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mdzdaniels: X autoconfiguration for the live CD04:21
danielsmdz: hoary chroot building now04:23
danielsmdz: i've literally walked in the door 15 minutes ago04:23
bob2mdz: I can test it04:23
mdzbob2: would you?04:24
mdzbob2: brief instructions are above04:24
danielsGNAR04:25
=== daniels watches his attempt to rsync i386/powerpc/source Ubuntu go into its second week.
davydhey daniels !04:28
bob2hrm, is there a 'test' flag to check the contents of a file?04:29
mdzdaniels: hoary chroot wha?04:30
danielsmdz: when I do sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg, predictably it works :P04:32
danielsmdz: working on the whole 'testing' thing04:32
danielsdavyd: hey dude :)04:32
davyddaniels: you never mailed me your address ;)04:32
danielsdavyd: heh04:32
davydand my psychic powers are lacking04:32
danielsdavyd@maddley.id.au?04:32
davydmadeley04:32
danielssent04:34
davyddaniels: my spidey sense tells me it was your birthday on Thursday, is that vaguely true, or am I smoking expensive crack?04:35
=== tseng checks it
danielsdavyd: it's true, in a vague and more concrete sense04:37
mdzKeybuk: do you happen to have tracked down why udev is quite so abhorrently slow under d-i?04:37
davyddaniels: happy birthday ;)04:37
davyd19 or 20?04:37
davyd"By the definitions I use,  and  seem strictly equivalent to me. Would be it fair to say that   " haha04:37
Keybukmdz: I didn't know it was04:37
mdzKeybuk: it takes about 5 seconds before /dev/fb/0 appears after the module is loaded, most of the time04:38
mdzand sometimes it never appears at all, but I expect that'll be fixed by udevsend04:38
Keybukodd, can't say I've looked at it04:39
mdzdaniels: I was under the distinct impression that 'Driver "radeon"' was nonsense and there was no reason ever to do that04:40
mdzdaniels: but someone just stated in the wiki that it got things working for them04:40
Keybukmdz: could certainly be an issue with hotplug trying to do the event too early, and then backing off too long04:41
danielsmdz: it is not nonsense, and sometimes the ati driver is so staggeringly shit that it fails to hand over to the right submodule04:42
danielsmdz: my personal opinion is that we should use atimisc/r128/radeon in preference to tai04:42
mdzKeybuk: does udev have some magic to prevent it from having itself called again via its own hotplug hook?04:43
mdzKeybuk: or does it just deal with that when it comes?04:43
davyddaniels: I opted not to go to Melbourne next month04:45
KeybukI thought there was, but I can't see the magic now04:45
davydsince I'm going to be doing a lot of travelling otherwise04:45
KeybukI think udevd sets an environment variable, and udevsend bails out if it finds that04:45
davydso it'll obviously be April then04:45
=== davyd wonders if he can get someone to witness his passport renewal so he can submit it tomorrow
danielsdavyd: ahr, bugger04:47
davyddaniels: also, you didn't answer, did you turn 19 or 20?04:48
danielsdavyd: oh, sorry, missed that one -- 1904:48
davydcool04:48
sivangdavyd: g_warning is great in debugging. thanks :)04:59
sivangdavyd: it appears there nothing wrong iwht the model , as expected :) I'll have to check the xml creation functions then....:-/05:00
daniels'The V3200 is a 16Mb Banshee board, which means it can support some rather impressive 2D resolutions. It can manage a 75Hz refresh rate at 1792 by 1344 with 32 bit colour. This is probably enough to stretch a startlingly expensive 30 inch monitor to its limits, and much higher than you should bother using on smaller screens like the 17 and 19 inch monitors many people use.'05:01
bob2mdz: doesn't work05:05
bob2mdz: afaict from dmesg it is that it's not loading the firmware in time05:06
mdzbob2: thanks05:06
mdzdaniels: you have an ipw2100, right?05:06
bob2he has atheros05:06
mdzoh05:06
danielsmdz: ath05:06
bob2thombot has ipw210005:06
bob2lifeless has ipw220005:06
mdzI have 2200 as well05:06
mdzI guess thom can fix it when it breaks05:07
mdzKeybuk: unless you already know exactly what needs to be done05:07
mdzKeybuk: I'm thinking about doing the udevsend switch tonight05:07
Keybukno, I don't -- just kill it anyway :p05:07
davyddaniels: ooh ooh, where do I buy one?05:07
danielsdavyd: i have one on my desk; if it wasn't the only tdfx I had, I'd give it to you05:08
=== bob2 does a list upgrade before putting hotplug and udev on hold
davydI remember back in the day05:08
bob2er, last05:08
davydwhen I got a 2MB Cirrus Logic05:08
davydI could play Wolfenstein 3D05:08
davydand it was quick too05:08
bob2daniels: mjg59 says you have a fix for the gl-is-fucked-after-resume i855 thing?05:09
danielsi miss my rendition verite (3d blaster pci)05:09
danielsthat was totally ahead of its time05:09
danielsbob2: yep05:09
jdubso05:09
danielsbob2: but if you value your job, don't ask me to do it before xorg autoconfiguration for livecd is done :P05:09
bob2haha, alrighty :)05:09
mdzKeybuk: is there even any point in having hotplug check if udev is kernel.hotplug, and if not, putting itself there?05:10
mdzKeybuk: it is the default and all05:10
bob2I was just having udev overwrite sys.kern.hotplug always05:11
Keybukmdz: not really :p05:11
jdubok05:12
jdubso05:12
mjg59daniels: 1792x1344? 30 inch?05:12
bob2jdub: put your pants on and finish a sentence!05:12
jdubi'm getting "can't write to /dev/null" (and /dev/console) errors during initrd when booting software raid105:12
mdzI wonder if it still makes sense for init.d/hotplug stop to set the helper to /bin/true05:13
danielsmjg59: FEAR THE AWESOME VOODOO POWAH05:13
jdubit occurs to me that /dev on the target is entirely empty05:13
jdubbecause there is no udev05:13
jdubso i'm trying a reboot with /dev/null and /dev/console on there05:13
jdub(i'm assuming it's target disk stuff here)05:13
jdubthis is a bit of a problem05:14
jdubif it works with those nodes created, then i'll be worried05:14
mdzjdub: how did you end up in this mess?05:14
mdzjdub: initrds generated by mkinitrd have /dev/console and /dev/null on them (statically) for exactly this reason05:14
jdubyes, they are there05:14
jdubi've done mkinitrd -r /dev/md0 -o pants05:15
jdubpia says the machine successfully booted05:15
jdubso it needed null and console on the *target*05:15
jdubwhich means that it would be very hard for someone to convert a fresh ubuntu install to software raid1 easily05:16
jdub(also, i really dislike the hardcoded mdadm call after redoing the mkinitrd)05:16
jdubi'm sure we can come up with a better way of making robust initrds05:17
jdubthat can handle configuration changes like this05:17
jdubhrm05:18
jdubunless our /dev already has those05:19
jdubi did a cp -vax05:19
jdubthough that should've copied them if they were there05:19
mdzKeybuk: hmm...should init.d/hotplug run udevstart rather than run_rcs if udevsend is the helper?05:20
mdzI don't suppose it matters05:20
mdzprobably best to leave it alone05:20
Keybukmdz: that's what most of my work in Mataro was trying to do -- then you end up racing X to load your mouse driver05:20
bob2you should start gdm out of a udev event script05:21
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Keybukbob2: which one?05:21
bob2hah, touche'05:22
bob2silly english keyboard05:22
danielsle sigh05:25
danielsmdz: we don't use radeonfb, do we?05:25
mdzdaniels: we deliberately pretend that it doesn't exist05:25
mdzdaniels: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=399305:33
mdzjdub: the best way to do it is to use EVMS05:35
mdzjdub: and forget about mdadm and all that other cruft05:35
mdzjdub: if you set up fstab so that it uses a /dev/evms/foo volume as root, it will magically set up the initrd for you05:35
danielsmdzsweet05:38
danielsmdz: thoughts on this for lrm? http://www.heby.de/ltmodem05:47
KeybukYou know what tla's killer feature is?  How it doesn't get affected by a change of umask05:50
KeybukOH WAIT05:50
Keybukdescent dpkg-1.13% tla changes | wc -l05:50
Keybuk236905:50
bob2Keybuk: "don't do that"05:51
bob2(and/or file a bug)05:51
Keybukbob2: I have different umasks on different machines05:51
Keybuktla cannot cope05:51
bob2changing it causes tla to do a massive permission change changeset?05:53
Keybukapparently05:53
Keybukall the patch logs have different permissions on this machine05:54
bob2erm05:54
Keybuk644 vs. 66405:54
danielsbbiaw05:57
jdubmdz: mmm, i wasn't bold enough to go evms this time around06:11
jdubmdz: should we regard evms as our one true raid/volume-management system; no md?06:12
lamontmdz: we could just fetch the architecture list from the archive...06:12
lamontthat is, if there's a ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-foo, then foo needs to be done.06:12
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mdzjdub: no mdadm, right07:43
lamontmdz: what do you think of fetching the list of main/binary-* and using that?07:46
lifelessbob2: theres a bug open on keybuk...'sproblem07:46
lamontmdz: for ubuntu-meta07:46
bob2be nice.07:51
lifelesshow ?07:51
lifeless:}07:51
=== lamont does not feel qualified to make a good decision on 3442, looks to mdz/keybuk/etc for fontconfig thoughts
=== lamont falls over, heads to bed.
=== daniels abdicates from 3442.
danielskeybuk touched it last08:14
crimsunby default ~/.fonts.conf overrides everything08:18
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mdzlamont: I don't think that we add new architectures frequently enough to justify the complexity, to be honest08:52
jdubmdz: but we wouldn't recommend md.ko usage either?08:52
mdzjdub: why wouldn't we?08:53
mdzEVMS uses md for raid508:54
mdzuntil such time as device-mapper gets equivalent functionality, anyway08:54
jduboh right08:54
jdubsorry, thought dm already did that08:54
mdzit does mirroring only, afaik08:55
jdublamont: we should kill all our local.conf changes08:55
mdzbut the nice thing about EVMS is that you don't have to give a damn08:55
mdzyou tell EVMS you want a raid-1 volume and a raid-5 volume, and it does what needs to be done08:55
mdzincluding figuring out how to configure the kernel for it this week08:55
jdubso is there a simple path from md raid1 to evms, or will i need to fail one drive and re set stuff up?08:55
mdzI believe EVMS will read md metadata, so it will recognize and activate your volume08:56
mdzI'm not sure whether it uses raid1 or dm-mirror in that case08:56
mdzjdub: fire up evmsgui and see what it shows you08:57
jdubhmm08:58
jdubok :)08:58
sivangmdz: can I install evms on an already running lvm system?08:58
mdzof course08:59
sivangmdz: coool :) apt-get instal evms? ;-)08:59
jdubmdz: is there a non-gtk evms interface?08:59
jduboof08:59
mdzsivang: it's in base08:59
mdzjdub: evmsn is an ncurses interface08:59
jdubparticularly a non-gtk1 ui08:59
mdzevms-cli has a CLI, but I don't recommend it09:00
mdzI use evmsn and evmsgui09:00
jdubwhoa09:00
jdub/dev/evms/md/md009:00
mdzsivang: evms understands both lvm1 and lvm2 metadata09:00
jdubso i can set my / to that and go?09:00
sivangmdz: cooooooooooool09:00
sivang:)09:00
mdzjdub: yeah, or you can create an EVMS volume on top of it and use that09:01
mdzEVMS sees md volumes as a lower level storage object out of which it can build things09:01
mdzbut you can use them directly as well09:01
jdubmakes sense09:03
jdubi might just stick with that for now09:03
sivangmdz: is colin going to integrate it into d-i ?09:03
mdznot likely09:04
mdzbut it could become a bounty09:04
mdzintegrating EVMS in the installer would be a much bigger project than the existing LVM support though09:04
mdzthere's just a lot more you can do09:04
=== jdub makes a new initrd
mdzthere is an evms udeb which should in theory let you use evmsn from the installer09:05
jdubon this system i seem to have to modprobe loop09:05
mdzjdub: haven't upgraded in a while?09:05
mdzjdub: grep loop /etc/udev/links.conf09:05
jdubit's a warty server09:05
jdubnot listed09:05
jdubhrm09:06
jdubscript in the initrd still has mdadm09:06
jdubhrm, it doesn't have any evms related binaries in it09:07
jdub# update-grub09:08
jdubSearching for GRUB installation directory ... found: /boot/grub .09:08
jdub/dev/evms/md/md0 does not have any corresponding BIOS drive.09:08
jdub09:08
jdubd'oh ;)09:08
sivangjdub: grub doesn't play well with it?09:08
jdubi'm pissing aroudn in the dark atm dude :)09:09
sivangjdub: hehe 09:09
=== jdub googles for evms grub
sivangjdub: does it boot at all? :)09:09
jdubhaven't tried09:09
jduberm09:13
jdubhrm09:13
jdub"This means your /boot volume must be based on a single partition."09:15
jdubbong!09:15
sivangjdub: /boot is adviced to not reside on a non evms/lvm volume, if to sum up to not so much I've read about it on the web :)09:17
sivangjdub: correction, not on _a_ evms/lvm09:17
mdzjdub: ah, that was fixed post-warty09:17
jdubmdz: which bit?09:18
mdzjdub: both, actually09:18
mdzjdub: the loop device thing, and the initrd thing09:18
mdzthe initrd fix should be a one-liner09:18
jduboh right09:18
mdzthe logic just doesn't get triggered on /dev/evms/md/foo, only on /dev/evms/foo09:18
mdz/usr/share/initrd-tools/probe.d/evms09:18
fabbionemorning09:19
mdzfabbione: morinng09:19
jdubmdz: change to /dev/evms/*/*, or /dev/evms/* /dev/evms/*/* ?09:19
mdzjdub:     for vol in /dev/evms/* /dev/evms/md/* /dev/evms/lvm/*; do09:19
mdzis what I have in current hoary09:19
jduboh, ok09:19
fabbioneAHAHAH09:20
fabbioneoh god09:20
mdzyou'll be way happier if you update to the hoary version of evms if you're doing this kind of stuff09:21
fabbione"All hail fabbione,09:21
fabbioneGrandmaster of the all omnipotent and omniprescient ubuntu linux kernel.09:21
fabbioneI offer up my sacrifice of some signed and encrypted gpg keys in the09:21
fabbionehope that they satisfy.09:21
fabbioneI only pray that my acpi may work in the next version.09:21
fabbione"09:21
jdubok, initrd fixed - thanks :)09:21
mdzjdub: one thing to watch out for09:21
mdzjdub: the evms initrd magic in warty doesn't know how to figure out which disks make up your raid array09:22
jdubonly now update-grub is completely spewing09:22
jdubmdz: ... ugh09:22
mdzjdub: so you need to ensure that the modules it needs are loaded in the initrd, yourself09:22
mdzjdub: it can detect the array fine, you just need to make sure that it can see your disks before it gets to that point09:22
jdubso, 'raid1'09:22
mdzno, stuff like your SCSI driver09:22
mdzwill need to get added to /etc/mkinitrd/modules09:22
mdzthe hoary version has more magic09:23
sivangfabbione: LOL09:23
jduboh, i see, yeah09:23
sivangfabbione: morning09:23
jdubit missed sata_sil and friends09:23
fabbioneeheh hi sivang09:23
mdzmaking evms-udeb a reality would be a pretty cool bounty project, actually09:23
jdubok,09:24
jdubsata_sil09:24
jdubsd_mod09:24
=== jdub makes another initd
jdubmdz: recommendations wrt grub, lilo, etc.? give up and have a separate /boot?09:25
mdzjdub: I would use grub09:25
sivanghehe, someone promoted my news flash about the arstechnica awards to a (!) mark on main page :)09:26
jdubgrr, bong, using the same config (fstab, menu.lst) as before, update-grub isn't working09:27
=== jdub goes to dinner for the moment
sivangok, enough g-s-t hacking for now, sleep 4 hours, then fininsh the backends hopefully :)09:29
sivangnight all!09:31
crimsunnight.09:31
sivangcrimsun: night Zzzz09:33
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bob2so, after suspend-to-disk, ipw2100 says "ipw2100: eth1: Failed to start the card." every second until I reboot09:37
mdzer09:42
mdzwhen did xfsprogs get added to base?09:42
fabbionebob2: buy serious hardware...09:42
fabbioneif it works for me.. everything else is buggy hardware09:42
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=== bob2 assigns the bug to fabbione
jdubhttp://alan.aspuru.com/archives/2005/01/08/ubuntu-linux-on-a-middle-school-computer-lab-a-linux-enthusiasts-adventure/10:32
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jdubmako: ^10:32
^_^i am a devel10:33
^_^?10:33
^_^ok why can't ubuntu put a bounty for a gui installer?10:33
^_^i am willing to do it for $750USD10:33
^_^i might even do it for $500 but10:34
^_^if you paying for a hack in firefox to show some html pages $500 then your standards are diffrent to what i thought they might be10:35
cartman^_^: start with getting a real nick10:36
^_^why is ubuntu paying $500 for a $10 job10:36
^_^cartman: i change it at a rate of 1 per 4hrs10:37
^_^brb10:37
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^_^back11:32
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^_^BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO11:43
^_^ooops11:43
^_^wrong tab11:43
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Kamionlamont: http://terranova.warthogs.hbd.com/~buildd/livecd/livecd-current.cloop gives a 403; would appreciate a permissions fix12:58
^_^Kamion: lag?01:05
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pittielmo: ping01:13
^_^pitti: pong01:13
pitti^_^: you are certain that you are elmo? :-)01:14
^_^pitti: pong01:14
pittielmo: I'm releasing the Warty kernel update now (16.8)01:15
^_^don't01:18
^_^you will brake some systems01:18
^_^just black mail ati and nvidia01:18
daniels^_^: please take it somewhere else, ok?  if this channel gets cluttered with crap, we cannot do development.01:20
Kamion^_^: huh?01:21
^_^daniels: umm all i see is parts and joins and ping requests01:21
^_^OMG01:21
pittihey, it's Sunday after all01:21
^_^Kamion: you have way too much lag01:21
Kamion^_^: there's a lot of interesting stuff from before you joined01:21
cartmansigh01:21
Kamion^_^: dude, some of us do not pay attention to IRC 24/701:21
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^_^Kamion: you had to stop the intresting stuff :(01:22
daniels^_^: there's every chance Kamion was actually doing interesting work instead of listening to this01:22
^_^ok here is my wishlist01:22
daniels^_^: you are not here for development, and you are actively hindering it.  please be quiet, or leave.01:22
^_^1) ignore me01:22
^_^2) tell me to leave01:23
^_^thanks01:23
azeemhmm, and I was half-convinced ^_^ was daniels in disguise01:23
azeem2004-08-#gnome-hackers.log:11:25 -!- daniels is now known as ^_^01:23
azeemthere, evidence01:23
cartmanhmmm01:24
danielsazeem: heh01:24
^_^LOL01:24
^_^wtf01:24
azeem2004-08-#gnome-hackers.log:18:28 -!- ^_^ was kicked from #gnome-hackers by ^-^ [get your own damned name] 01:24
azeem^_^: beware01:24
^_^oh ow01:24
Kamionhm, diffing loop-mounted ISOs takes a while01:24
^_^ok here is my wish list01:25
^_^ubuntu should start selling computer with ubuntu pre installed01:25
KamionI doubt Canonical will be in that business in the near future, but we'd be happy to support other people doing that, and indeed there's some installer stuff in planning stages to help with OEM installations01:27
^_^yes and please GET THOSE NAKED PICTURES OFF UBUNTU01:27
^_^not all of us like the female body01:28
^_^or let alone the male01:28
^_^that one thing m$ did right no pictures of people on the desktop01:28
Kamionthey're not the default, plus the artwork argument is *so* September01:28
^_^yes they should even be part of ubuntu01:29
^_^that is a reason why some of my friends didn't install the os because they saw they cd cover01:30
danielswe've already had that argument, please read the mailing list archives.01:31
^_^link01:35
^_^btw a lot of people like how not all apps look the same grey...01:36
Kamionlook in the ubuntu-users archives for September and October and I find it hard to imagine that you could miss it01:36
tuo2gah01:36
Kamionthe current situation was decided following a community meeting01:36
^_^look most media players are umm whats the word01:36
martink"ugly"? "in-consistent with your desktop"? "fruit salad"?01:38
daniels^_^: this is not appropriate for #ubuntu-devel.  if you insist on continuing, please take it to #ubuntu.01:39
^_^daniels: ahh the people who would do anything would be in here 01:39
^_^and as you said you are not at irc 24x701:40
=== cartman is glad he ignored ^_^
^_^you'll miss of it01:40
Kamionno, that just means we have to read it in scrollback01:40
^_^you are telling me you are going to read 10k lines of stuff just to find 1 line that you need to read01:41
Treenaks^_^: /help lastlog01:41
danielsi read scrollback of #ubuntu-devel, because it's not filled with morons trying to hijack it01:41
danielsright now, i'm trying to watch discussion of the live cd development, which is now very, very difficult.01:41
^_^ohh one question01:42
KamionI read scrollback of #ubuntu-devel because I do this stuff for a living and I feel slightly obliged to pay attention to scrollbacck01:42
pittinice Sunday everybody01:42
^_^why not let gnoppix be the live cd for ubuntu01:42
^_^it uses the ubuntu packages....01:43
^_^it is far better than the current cd01:43
KamionGnoppix *is* the Warty live CD01:43
^_^and it has an installer on the cd01:43
Kamionthey're bit-for-bit identical01:43
^_^Kamion: not the one i got01:43
^_^the one i got doesn't have a installer on the cd01:43
Kamionperhaps you should look at http://www.gnoppix.org/ and read the stuff on the front page01:43
daniels^_^: look, there is only one cd, and it's gnoppix.  and i still fail to see the relevance to ubuntu development.01:44
^_^well the screeny on that site show an insatller01:45
Kamionthis is something we're working on for the next release, by means of making the live CD bootstrap process use the installer code01:46
^_^hey the gnoppix cd is 0.8warty01:46
^_^and in a screeny of 0.701:46
^_^there is already a installer01:46
^_^as shown in this screeny01:46
^_^http://www.gnoppix.org/pages/screenshots/gnoppix07beta/gnoppix_installer.png01:47
danielstake it to #gnoppix01:47
^_^what happened to it01:47
Kamionno, we aren't going to use the gnoppix installer, we already have an installer and we don't want to have to support two installation systems01:47
^_^Kamion: ah ha so the gnoppix project is now your live cd project and you guy desided to dump the installer then01:48
^_^now it makes sence01:48
^_^btw #gnoppix has one person in there01:49
Kamionjust because other places don't have enough targets for rants doesn't mean this is the right place01:49
^_^ok ok01:50
^_^one thing where do i rant about gnoppix's site saying its based on debian woody and not ubuntu? there is no one in #gnoppix to rant to, and as ubuntu took over the project i'll guess this would be the place01:52
Kamionperhaps you should try finding e-mail addresses or bug tracking systems rather than irc channels; bug reporting on irc is generally not so useful01:53
^_^ok01:53
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danielsdon't know what he's on, the gnoppix site has ubuntu all over it01:54
Kamionwow, my security-updated warty CD actually seems to be vaguely correct01:55
danielsheh, nice :)01:55
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Kamionand I can basically build it with DEBUG=1 DIST=warty ARCHES=i386 cron.daily01:57
danielsrad01:57
danielsKamion: what's the default debconf priority in casper; high?02:12
Kamionshould be, yeah, everything defaults to high now02:12
danielsphat02:14
danielswe should be able to do live cd autoconfiguration when I fix this stupid stupid stupid bug02:14
danielsnote to self: dpkg --print-architecture works without dpkg-dev; dpkg-architecture doesn't02:15
Kamionheh, yeah, dpkg-architecture's only intended for stuff in package builds IIRC02:15
danielswell, I thought, 'what gets the value of the architecture?', and I was in a debian/ dir at the time :P02:16
danielsmdz: ok, listen up, yo02:28
danielsexport XORGFORCEPROBE=yes02:28
danielsmd5sum /etc/X11/xorg.conf > /var/lib/xfree86/xorg.conf.md5sum02:28
danielsdpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg02:28
danielsmdz: for the meantime, you'll need to have dpkg-dev installed, but I have the fix for that locally02:28
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danielsmdz: that *should* do autodetection fine; the only real problem is prompting for the keyboard layout atm, and also lack of a fallback (probably 640x480?) if we can't pick the default resolution.  i'll do 640, but how do you want to handle the keyboard layout?02:29
danielsmdz: (by '*should*', I mean 'does on my freshly-installed hoary chroot, with dpkg-dev, laptop-detect and xresprobe installed')02:31
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:/etc/X11% export XORGFORCEPROBE="yes"02:35
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:/etc/X11% sudo sh -c 'echo > xorg.conf'02:36
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:/etc/X11% sudo sh -c 'md5sum /etc/X11/xorg.conf > /var/lib/xfree86/xorg.conf.md5sum'02:36
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:/etc/X11% sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg02:36
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:/etc/X11% wc -l xorg.conf02:36
daniels126 xorg.conf02:36
danielsKamion: what state does casper come in?  i assume unpacked and configured?02:36
danielsKamion: or does it do this on the fly?02:37
mjg59daniels: Still around?02:39
azeemhe's like flooding this chan currently02:40
danielsmjg59: represent02:40
mjg59daniels: VIA again02:41
danielsmjg59: ...02:41
mjg59On the craptop02:41
mjg59It doesn't switch the LCD off now, but it doesn't actually seem to start X02:41
danielsstill arse with Xorg?02:41
danielsoh, hooray02:41
mjg59Hang on, I'll just try with vesafb disabled02:42
danielswant to bounce me Xorg.1.log from sudo Xorg :1 -logverbose 9999 -notvtswitch?02:42
danielsyeah, fb is generally badness02:42
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danielsthe via driver is probably flakey enough to not deal with coming from !text02:42
mjg59daniels: It just stops with Using VT number 802:45
mjg59Ok, it's better without -novtswitch02:46
mjg59www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/Xorg.1.log02:47
mjg59(II) VIA(0): Not using mode 1024x768 (no mode of this name)02:47
mjg59Hmm.02:47
danielslooks like it's failing in VIAGetBIOSTable02:49
danielsVGA BIOS image is wrong!! CheckSum = 5e403a02:50
danielsyou'd probably need to poke libv about that one02:50
mjg59libv?02:50
danielsoh, arse.02:51
danielsluc varhaegen, one of the via guys02:51
danielsit looks like we can't get any sensible output without rebuilding the via driver02:51
mjg59Hahaha02:53
danielshttp://amnesiac.heapspace.net/~daniel/via-drv.o02:53
danielser, via_drv02:53
danielsthat should have way more debugging funk02:53
danielswell, in a sec02:53
mjg59The one I just grabbed?02:54
danielsthe incomplete one, yes :P02:54
danielsmy link is flogged atm02:54
danielsok, grab it now02:55
danielsif you run with -logverbose 9999, you should get some sweet debug love02:56
mjg59Ah, yes, that's bigger02:56
danielsa bit, yeah02:56
mjg59daniels: Ok, www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/Xorg.1.log again02:59
danielsand it just hangs there?03:00
danielsor is the mode stuff broken?03:00
mjg59It just stops there03:00
danielsoh, haha03:01
daniels(II) VIA(0): Generic Monitor: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz03:01
mjg59Nothing on screen03:01
daniels(II) VIA(0): Generic Monitor: Using default vrefresh range of 43.00-72.00 Hz03:01
mjg59Ah. Yes, it's not going to get 1024x768 out of that, is it?03:01
mjg5933kHz?03:01
mjg59Christ03:01
danielstry setting HorizSync 28-49, VertRefresh 43-7203:02
danielsvia seems to be one of the drivers which will happily do everything for the modes except set up sensible sync ranges so the only modes it sets up and will accept can validate03:03
mjg59        Option          HorizSync     28-4903:04
mjg59        Option          VertRefresh   43-7203:04
mjg59In the monitor section?03:05
daniels(II) VIA(0): VIABIOS_GetVideoMemSize03:05
daniels(II) VIA(0): Return Value Is: -107354470403:05
danielsvery encouraging, that is03:05
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danielsnope, just HorizSync\t28-49\nVertRefresh\t43-7203:05
mjg59Hm. It's still setting the default03:05
danielsin the Monitor section03:05
mjg59Oh, right03:06
daniels(i made the same mistake)03:06
mjg59Some day I'll understand the semantics of this03:06
mjg59Hrm. Still nothing. Hang on.03:07
mjg59www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/Xorg.1.log03:07
mjg59Interesting. I can't find a single machine here that doesn't have a bad video BIOS checksum.03:11
Treenaksmjg59: try using Option          "NoDDCValue"    "on"03:11
Treenaksmjg59: the via driver kept choosing the lowest res. when I didn't have that.. somehow the (incorrectly read/parsed) values override the X config03:12
mjg59Treenaks: Is that in the monitor section?03:13
Treenaksmjg59: no, Device03:13
danielshold on, what mode *is* it using?03:13
danielsi'm beginning to suspect I'll never have a hope of correctly configuring the via driver03:14
danielsvia and apple need their hardware licences revoked03:14
mjg59Treenaks: Nope, stops in the same place03:15
mjg59I'm almost at the point of wondering whether there's a newer BIOS available for this thing03:16
mjg59The one in it is a Dixons special03:16
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ericfwhy is it that a symlink like '/dev/dvd -> /dev/hdd' is gone after reboot? Maybe it's offtopic here, but in #ubuntu no-one could tell me...03:18
Treenaksericf: because udev manages /dev in ubunti03:18
Treenaksericf: and if you want that symlink, add it to /etc/udev/links.conf03:18
ericfTreenaks: Great! Thanks :)03:19
danielsmjg59: with a capital SPECIAL03:19
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kagouhi03:20
kagoui'v found a bug on hoary 64 with openoffice 1.1.303:20
kagoufirst launch -> crash ... i had to manually edit ~/.sversionrc and change 1.1.2 by 1.1.3. After openoffice is ok03:21
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kagouhi seb128 03:21
Nafallokagou: could you find it on bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org?03:21
kagoummmm let'"s go03:22
kagouno Nafallo 03:24
Nafallokagou: then you should file a bug against the package.03:25
kagouokay03:25
mjg59Damnit. I need to get DOS on here.03:27
mjg59...and, of course, it has no floppy drive03:28
Nafallomjg59: you might want one of those; ubcd.sf.net03:30
Nafallo:-)03:30
mjg59 14:30:24 up 376 days, 21:21,  4 users,  load average: 0.29, 0.08, 0.0203:30
mjg59Nafallo: Nah, I'll just netboot it03:30
mjg59Pff. That'd be 450 days if my housemate hadn't switched it off last christmas.03:31
danielshaggai: see kagou's comment above03:31
mjg59Best. Laptop. Ever.03:31
danielsmjg59: the craptop, or another laptop?03:31
Nafallomjg59: hehe, nice one :-).03:31
mjg59Haha. No. That's an ancient P75 Toshiba03:32
danielsnice03:32
danielsmjg59: do you know anything about GTK's craptasmic input method, BTW?03:32
mjg59In what way?03:33
danielswell, I've been trying to hack it to generate a unicode heart on compose-<-303:33
danielstook me 3 seconds with the X mappings, but adding it to gtk_compose_map in GTK didn't do any good03:33
danielsso it works with the X input method, but not with the default one03:34
mjg59Ah. No idea, I'm afraid.03:34
danielsditto compose-i-j for the ij ligature03:34
danielsah well03:34
danielschrist, the original imac advertises 640x480@112Hz03:36
danielsthat's psychopathic03:36
mjg59I love the feeling of flashing hardware with (theoretically) unsupported BIOSes03:43
danielseven if it doesn't work, it's an improvement03:43
mjg59Haha03:44
mjg59memdisk is the best thing ever03:44
danielsthen again, setting it on fire, or using it to beat an old woman to death on the street, would be an improvement03:44
elmoseb128: ?03:44
elmoor any mono guys?03:44
seb128elmo: I'm not a mono guy03:44
mjg59                UUID: 22222222-2222-2222-2222-22222222222203:45
danielselmo: is this about mcs/m-a-b?03:45
mjg59Best. UUID. Ever.03:45
danielsmjg59: word03:45
seb128elmo: but since you are here, sync for python-gtk2-tutorial python-gtk2-doc please :)03:45
mjg59Oh, WOW03:45
mjg59The new BIOS makes the fan EVEN LOUDER03:45
mjg59When it's idling03:46
elmoseb128: no, but you might know if there's any reason gtk-sharp would be using an old copy of gtkhtml, gal and soup?03:46
mjg59daniels: Ok, X is still just as fucked03:47
elmowhy the heck is python-gtk2-doc in multiverse?03:47
danielsmjg59: awesome03:48
danielsmjg59: i think this might be a courier-it-to-the-via-hackers thing03:48
danielsmjg59: (he's in belgium, iirc, so maybe you could just ride your bike over)03:48
mjg59daniels: It's weird, though. At least one of the via hackers had dealt with the G320.03:48
danielsmjg59: i'm not entirely sure libv had dealt with one, as much as heard a report from someone using one once03:48
mjg59And it used to work better than this (as in, it started X fully and then turned the LCD off...)03:48
danielsheh03:48
mjg59Haha03:49
danielsi dunno, i assume the horizsync/vertrefresh lines are the same as from xfree8603:49
danielsif not, you might want to steal the xfree86 ones03:49
mjg59Oh, it never worked at all with XFree03:49
danielsoh, sweet03:49
mjg59Remember? It hung the machine03:49
mjg59This was an earlier Xorg package03:49
danielsoh yeah03:49
danielslooks like the unichrome merge broke it then, maybe03:50
danielsyou'll have to poke libv, I'm afraid (he hangs out in #freedesktop)03:50
danielsmy downstream's hammered, so I'm going downstairs to get some more food now03:50
seb128elmo: I've no idea, python-gtk2-doc should be in main03:51
seb128elmo: and dunno for gtk-sharp03:51
elmoseb128: well it's not seeded - could you get it seeded?  in the meantime, I'll move it to universe03:52
seb128elmo: ok, thanks03:52
elmoand both syncs' done03:52
mjg59Bah. Upgrading the BIOS hasn't fixed ACPI.03:53
seb128thanks :)03:53
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Kamiondaniels: casper's just the piece that finds the live filesystem, munges it a bit, and pivots into it; you mean the live filesystem?04:08
Kamiondaniels: AFAIK it comes configured04:09
=== usual [~colin@alb-69-202-45-196.nycap.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontKamion: grumble the non-symlinks are fine...04:14
lamontfixing04:14
fabbionehuffff04:16
fabbioneanother room has been sand papered :-)04:16
danielsKamion: ok, that's alright.04:23
danielsmdz: so if you ship an /etc/X11/xorg.conf with its md5sum already in /var/lib/xfree86/xorg.conf.md5sum, then all you need to do is call dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg, with XORGFORCEPROBE=yes04:24
danielsmdz: (with dpkg-deb installed)04:25
danielser, dpkg-dev04:25
=== trulux [~lorenzo@67.Red-80-25-56.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== fabbione makes some space on the cd/dvd mirrors to add live and dvd
=== srbaker [~srbaker@blk-224-172-150.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionlamont: thanks, rebuilding now04:34
Nafallois there anyway to but a cd from a grub-shell?04:35
Nafallo(i.e. ubuntu livecd)04:35
lamontKamion: still dealing with it - not very apache2 literate.04:35
lamontthom around?04:36
lamontor anyone else wanna give me the snippet?04:36
danielslamont: it's probably on AllowSymlinksIfOwnerMatch, which does what it says on the box04:36
fabbionelamont: what are you searching for?04:36
danielslamont: if you want to unconditionally walk symlinks, add Option FollowSymlinks to the Directory or Location stanza04:36
lamontah, that could be it...04:36
daniels(if you don't have a Location stanza, make one)04:36
daniels(i think it's SymlinksIfOwnerMatch, rather than Allow..., but meh)04:37
Kamionlamont: oh, ok, I'm off for a bit now so let me know when it's done04:37
gsuvegthom: are you here ?04:37
lamontyeah - is fixed on terranova now.04:37
danielsgsuveg: it's Sunday afternoon in the UK04:37
=== lamont adds chowning the files to his script. :-(
gsuvegdaniels: like here. thanks04:38
gsuvegdaniels: np. email sent04:38
gsuvegi've problem with NM on warty04:38
danielsnetworkmanager is known to be rather broken04:38
danielsthe suggested thing to do is to use netapplet, which is far more likely to actually work04:38
gsuvegi see04:39
lamontKamion: is better now.04:42
lamontback in 4-5 hours or more04:42
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-217-65.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielswoah, they've done the i830 lvds stuff *right*.05:00
Treenaksdaniels: who have?05:02
fabbioneGod, Jesus and the Holy spirit05:03
fabbionenobody else could have done it otherwise05:03
danielsTreenaks: tungsten graphics05:03
danielsthey're setting sensible sync ranges per default05:03
daniels   /* With panels, we're always assuming a refresh of 60Hz */05:04
daniels   pScrn->monitor->nHsync = 1;05:04
daniels   pScrn->monitor->nVrefresh = 1;05:04
daniels   /* With panels, we're always assuming a refresh of 60Hz */05:04
daniels   pScrn->monitor->nHsync = 1;05:04
daniels   pScrn->monitor->nVrefresh = 1;05:04
danielserk, stupid mouse -- sorry05:04
fabbionehey05:04
fabbionethey have copied our setup!05:04
fabbione60Hz was OUR idea!05:04
Treenaksfabbione: sue them!05:05
danielsheh :)05:05
danielsi'd rather buy them a beer than sue them05:05
Treenaks"60Hz should be enough for everyone"05:05
danielsthis gets rid fo the need for 855resolution/865patch and all that crap, as far as I can tell05:05
fabbionewe can buy many beers :-)05:05
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crimsungah, missed Martin. I need to ask him if he's going to provide linux-headers-2.6.10-hardened*05:33
danielsKamion: ping05:35
fabbionecrimsun: i am pretty sure he will once the packages will ake shape05:39
fabbionetake05:39
makojdub: that's awesome05:39
mjg59daniels: So, dude, are we getting i830 love today?05:40
danielsmjg59: it's 3:40am05:40
crimsunfabbione: yeah, I'm hoping so. I'm attempting to test a newer ALSA [alsa-driver 1.0.8rc2, with fixes for a nasty OOPS in snd-pcm-oss] 05:40
danielsmjg59: by the time I do test builds around all three architectures (i386 is frigging *slow), I'll want to be asleep05:40
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjg59You suck05:40
mjg59GIVE ME THE LOVE05:40
KeybukI'll give you more loving than you can handle, bitch! :p05:41
=== daniels grumbles and goes to fetch another bottle of Red Eye from his bar fridge.
fabbionecrimsun: you can do that in the normal kernel :-)05:41
=== fabbione hits mjg59 with a lot of love
crimsunfabbione: I'm trying to stay with -hardened :-)05:42
danielsmjg59: 05:49
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/x/xorg/bleh/xc% wc -l yay-tungsten.diff05:49
daniels6219 yay-tungsten.diff05:49
mjg59Yay tungsten05:50
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybuk+# Copyright (C) 2002, 2003, 2005  Free Software Foundation, Inc.05:50
Keybuk+#05:50
Keybuk+# This file is free software; the Free Software Foundation05:50
Keybuk+# gives unlimited permission to copy and/or distribute it,05:50
Keybuk+# with or without modifications, as long as this notice is preserved.05:50
Keybukfear.  RMS approved too05:51
mjtKeybuk: pls excuse me for a silly question... what's the reason for grepmap? ;)  I mean, why another piece of software is "better" than 3-line patch for modprobe (in m.i.t.)?05:51
Keybukmjt: modprobe doesn't do the same thing05:52
fabbionefabbione@gordian:~$ glxgears 05:52
fabbione37840 frames in 5.0 seconds = 7568.000 FPS05:52
fabbione46718 frames in 5.0 seconds = 9343.600 FPS05:52
fabbioneTHIS IS SO RAAAAD!!!!05:52
fabbionedaniels: ubuntu9 + 2.6.10 + l-r-m05:52
mjtKeybuk: think /lib/modules/$version/modules.alias 05:52
fabbionesee above :-)05:52
crimsungordian, eh? an allusion to gordian knot, praps?05:53
Keybukmjt: as far as I remember, those don't work with device drivers that just say "anything with this set of flags"05:53
fabbionecrimsun: all my boxes are named after jap's robot05:53
Keybukgrepmap is basically just an implementation of the hotplug shell code in C05:53
Keybukso it's drop-in compatible05:53
fabbionelike gundam, trider, vultus505:53
crimsunfabbione: ah, ok. I mistook that for the prog metal-jazz band, Gordian Knot05:54
mjtKeybuk: "anything with this set of flags" -- such as?05:54
fabbionecrimsun: nope.. you are not the first one :-)05:54
danielsfabbione: GLXGEARS IS NOT A BENCHMARK05:55
fabbionedaniels: AHAHHAHA05:55
danielskeynice05:55
danielsKeybuk: ^ that's you05:55
fabbionedaniels: anyway.. it GLX works only on one of the 2 heads.. but that's nothing new05:55
Keybukmjt: things like the mousedev driver need to be loaded for anything with a given USB class, etc.05:55
danielsfabbione: yeah05:55
danielsfabbione: get a Radeon, they have MergedFB support :)05:55
danielsfabbione: overlays on both heads05:55
fabbionedaniels: that's why i get 9K FPS on it... and 300 FPS on the other ;)05:56
fabbionedaniels: nah.. i don't care until xv works on both05:56
mjtKeybuk: that mousedev example works just fine with modules.alias05:56
danielsfabbione: doesn't TwinView do that?  IIRC that was the main revision for TV over Xinerama05:56
fabbionei can watch 8 differnt pron movies full screen...05:56
mjg59daniels: Make the Tungsten people do mergedfb support05:56
fabbionethat's enogh05:56
danielsfabbione: Xv works on both with Radeon -- all overlays do05:56
danielsmjg59: for i8xx?05:56
mjg59Yes05:56
danielsmmm, that would be cool05:56
fabbionedaniels: dunno... i think it does.. but hounetly i don't really care05:56
fabbionedaniels: i only need headS05:57
Keybukmjt: hotplug upstream didn't seem to think it was sufficient (otherwise hotplug would use it itself)05:57
fabbionetime to prepare some dinner.....05:57
fabbionelater folks05:57
Keybukin theory it's just a temporary solution, and will go away eventually05:57
Keybukdescent 2.6.8.1-4-686% grep mousedev modules.alias05:58
Keybukzsh: exit 1     grep mousedev modules.alias05:58
mjthmm... hotplug code evolved since 2.4 at least05:58
danielsfabbione: seeya05:58
mjtKeybuk: do you really have that module? ;) Isn't it hiddev?05:59
Keybukmjt: yes, everyone really has that module05:59
Keybukdescent 2.6.8.1-4-686% grep tsdev modules.alias05:59
Keybukzsh: exit 1     grep tsdev modules.alias05:59
Keybukdescent 2.6.8.1-4-686% grep joydev modules.alias05:59
Keybukzsh: exit 1     grep joydev modules.alias05:59
Keybukmodules.alias is missing quite a few things05:59
mjtit's from inputmap, right? 05:59
Keybukyes06:00
mjti mean, all those modules are listed in modules.inputmap06:00
mjtoh06:00
mjtthat's the only map which isn't in modules.alias ;)06:00
Keybukit was easier to clone the hotplug code than futz around with stuff that's not yet finished :)06:01
mjtbut grepmap is so large tarball!.. ;)06:02
Keybukit's not that big ?06:02
mjt280Kb for 0.1.0 ;)06:02
Keybukheh, that's not big :p06:03
mjtthe whole module-init-tools is 122Kb ;)06:03
mjg59mjt: Most of that will be build infrastructure...06:03
Keybuk104     po06:04
Keybuk108     tests06:04
Keybuk176     m406:04
Keybuk368     configure06:04
Keybuk480     intl06:04
mjtwell.. just kidding, really06:06
Keybukmjt: (digs out his e-mail) and modules.alias doesn't yet correctly do usb versions06:07
Keybukgiven a version in usbmap, you have to match that or later within certain bounds06:07
Keybukmit only does an exact match at the moment06:07
Keybukit also only does precise pci class matches, rather than free ones (but I don't think there's a driver that relies on that yet)06:08
mjti'm trying to "get in touch" with someone who "can get the end to all this nonsense" ;) for quite some time -- there's hotplug and udev, m.i.t, kernel module stuff (file2alias etc, the same is repeated in mit), everyone complains hotplug is too slow, and every distro solves the problem it's own way06:08
=== jasc [~jasc@p508B3132.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukthe end theory is that you'd have udev handling kobject events from the kernel, preparing the device node if necessary and running a set of handlers when they're ready to be dispatched.  One of these handlers would be to check the output of m-i-t and load any appropriate module (current hotplug), others would include hal and so on.06:12
=== abelli [~abelli@84.222.39.198] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjti just wanted a small tool to do module loading in initrd, somehing akin a tiny scan_pci tool used with ltsp (i think) - which had its own pci->module file.  And after digging into that stuff, i see there's only very small stuff needs to be done to solve it all (it seems -- your comments above makes me think again).. before it's too late and everyone does it their own incompatible way... ;)06:12
Keybukon boot, you still need to coldplug the modules (scan the bus and load them)06:12
mjtyes sure06:13
Keybukudevstart seems a reasonably logical place to do that06:13
mjti wrote a small shell script to do that -- based on /sys/bus/pci/devices and modules.alias (aliases works faster in shell than *.*map files)06:14
mjtbut that's yet another way to do it ;)06:14
Keybukthat's basically /etc/hotplug/pci.rc ? :)06:14
mjtyes but that works in initrd (small etc)06:15
Keybukit depends on the discretion of the problem you want to solve06:15
Keybuk1) dynamic /dev, or static /dev06:15
Keybuk2) built-in modules, or dynamic modules06:15
Keybuk3) no hardware reporting, hardware reporting06:15
mjtand i just changed my pci.rc to call that same my script too (it completes in 3 sec instead of almost 20 sec in sid)06:16
Keybukyour script, for example, wouldn't be able to inform hal of the new hardware -- so hal would have to do /yet another/ cold plugging scan when it starts06:16
mjtyes sure06:16
Keybukan ideal goal is to reduce the number of hardware scans on boot to just one06:16
mjtisn't it impossible when using initrd?06:16
Keybuknot necessarily, you just start udevd and hald earlier06:18
Keybukbefore init :p06:18
mjtso initrd becomes persistent?06:18
Keybuk(which actually makes some sense, having hardware managing code running before any userland)06:18
Keybukwell, you're already mounting /proc and /sys in initrd at that point06:18
Keybukit's a bit blue-sky at the moment, when kobject ide drivers come along, it'll be a very sexy thing to have06:19
Keybukso rather than the 100-odd lines of modprobe that's statically generated, you'd just start the hardware in the system] 06:19
mjt"it'll be .." what's "it" ?'06:20
Keybukudev/hotplug-in-initrd06:20
Keybukright now there's no reason to do it06:20
Keybukbut if things normally loaded in initrd are kobjected, then there becomes a very compelling reason to do it06:21
mjthmm06:22
Keybukif you can "hotplug" your 06:22
Keybukide/scsi drivers and filesystem drivers, then it makes sense to do that before you try and mount the root partition06:23
Keybukat that point, you may as well hotplug everything else as well06:23
mjtudevD isn't really needed (not even in real root), i think -- provided one does not insert/remove hardware 1000 times a sec (as /dev is in tmpfs and not in udevd memory)06:23
Keybukudevd is very needed06:23
Keybuke.g. usb storage remove events take about a tenth of the time of an insert event06:24
Keybukso you can plug in and out a device reasonably quickly (within a second or two) and have the remove event finish before the start event has even finished06:24
Keybukit's job is to correctly serialise events06:24
mjtwell yes06:25
mjtjust too much stuff for initrd... ;)06:25
Keybukyup06:25
mjti liked the days when a single floppy with kernel+initrd image was sufficient to boot any of 500+ our different machines... ;)06:26
Keybukif you hotplug in initrd, you're going to be mounting every storage device on the system at the same time as the root06:26
KeybukI've often wondered how MS deal with scsi drives06:27
Keybukone idea is that you do away with initrd almost entirely; and in userland do hotplugging and detect things like scsi drives and filesystem types06:28
Keybukthis writes a configuration onto the minimal initrd to just load those modules06:28
Keybukthough this doesn't work if you swap hardware06:28
mjtheh.  grub comes to mind, with its ext2fs etc implementation... ;)06:29
Keybukindeed, if grub could actually prepare an initrd for the kernel ...06:30
mjtin solaris there's 2nd stage bootloader which loads 16-bit drivers for hardware06:30
Keybukso the kernel would load the right single ide/scsi and filesystem module it needed06:30
Keybukand then the first thing you do in userspace is hotplug the rest of the hardware06:30
Keybuk(ignoring, for now, strange people who want separate or even nfs-mounted /usr)06:33
mjtoh well.06:33
Keybukthat's a fun one06:36
Keybukif you want hotplug to use stuff in /usr, you need to do it after remote filesystems are mounted06:36
Keybukbut you can't access remote filesystems until you've hotplugged the network device06:36
Keybukand the network device might depend on firmware in /usr06:36
Keybuk*hello!*06:36
sivangKeybuk: hehe06:45
Keybukas time goes on, I'm more and more heading towards a "well, don't configure your machine like that" stance on some things :)06:45
mjtin that case the initrd (pxe, whatever) should contain the firmware06:45
mjtmkinitrd job -- yet another piece of software that um.. does "offline hot^Wcouldplug"06:46
mjti already got some probs with tg3 and network (pxe) booting. but for now it works, ie the firmware, while good to have, is optional06:47
Keybukmy tg3 seems ok, I've not yet dropped the firmware into place06:49
sivangdoes anybody know what happens privilege wise, if I have one prog that is executed using sudo, which forks/executes another program ? Does the "child" program  also get the sudo'd privileges?06:50
Keybuksivang: yes06:50
Keybuk(this is not generally true of setuid programs though)06:50
sivangKeybuk: so sudo makes an excepction and assigns explicitly the child's as root privs?06:51
Keybukno06:51
=== BlackHussar [~BlackHuss@dsl081-081-225.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangKeybuk: k, thanks06:52
Keybukdo you know the difference between real, effective and saved user/group id?06:52
sivangKeybuk: hmmm, /me goes on googeling :)06:52
mjtheh. that's quite a story...06:52
Keybukok, well, simply put06:52
Keybukprocesses have both a real and effective user id06:53
Keybukgenerally they are the same06:53
mjt(all that different uids, that is -- historic mess)06:53
=== sivang listens
Keybukprocesses are entitled to swap them as well06:53
Keybukor make them both the same06:53
mjtfsvp 06:53
mjter. fsvo "both" ;)06:53
Keybukmjt: shush, I'm simplifying :p06:53
sivangmjt: what's fsvp if I may ask? ;)06:54
Keybuknow, when you fork a child process, that child process is created under your real user id06:54
Keybukso if your real user id is 1000, your child will be also 1000 for both real and effective06:54
sivangKeybuk: but I can reser it?06:54
mjtsivang: a typo: fsvo it should be, or "for some value of"06:54
Keybukyour effective user id is used whenever you do anything on disk06:54
Keybukso if your effective user id is 0, you can roughly behave as root06:54
Keybuka setuid program (o+s) is run with its real user id unchanged, but it's effective user id changed to 006:55
mjts/o+s/u+s/06:55
Keybukso if you run a setuid program as you (1000), it's real user id is still 1000 and it's effective user id is 006:55
Keybukmjt: gah, typo, thanks06:55
Keybukif that setuid program was to fork a child, the child process would run as you06:56
Keybukso setuid programs that don't know any better can't fork root children06:56
=== cartman [foobar@cartman.developer.konversation] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ich]
sivangKeybuk: ok, that explains alot! Thank you!06:56
Keybuksudo knows better, it knows it's setuid so one of the things it does after it's checked your credentials is sets its real user id to its effective user id (so both become 0)06:56
sivangKeybuk: uh ha. got it now.06:57
Keybuksetuid gives you a helping hand to root, you still need to pull yourself up06:57
sivangKeybuk: as in having the child process set effetive uid to 006:57
Keybukit also means (for example) that a setuid program can do something quickly as root, and then drop its root privileges and run as just the user again06:57
sivangKeybuk: ok, but it has to be setuid prior to runnig right? it can't ask to change it i runtime?06:58
Keybukyup06:58
Keybukyou can only set your real, effective or saved user id to the value of one of the others06:58
Keybukyou can't stick anything arbitrary in there06:58
mjtunles you're God^Wroot ;)06:58
Keybukand once you've dropped root, (so real, effective and saved are 1000) you can no longer switch back to it06:59
Keybukor if you never had root in the first place, you can't stick 0 in there06:59
danielsKeybuk: so how come you can only drop your uids to 1000? that sounds like a poor limitation to me06:59
danielsunix sucks06:59
Keybukdaniels: well, if you're root, you can change your uid to whatever you like <g>06:59
Keybukbut you could have a "setuid daniels" process, which when I run I can flip between being daniels or scott until I make a decision07:00
sivangKeybuk: so a nont setuid proc could never gain root privs, unless executed by root, right?07:00
danielsKeybuk: yhbt yhl hth hand kthxbye07:00
Keybukchildren would be mine by default, unless I became you in which case they'd be yours07:00
crimsunsounds like a handy avoid-blame resolution07:01
Keybuksivang: kernel bugs not withstanding, yes07:01
sivangcrimsun: hehe07:01
mjtnah, it's like "don't let everyone do evil things with the system"07:01
Nafallothen sudo -u other_user will gain root to become other_user, right?07:03
mjtsudo is setuid *root*07:04
KeybukNafallo: yup.  sudo is setuid root, checks creds, becomes root, becomes over user, runs process07:04
Nafallogood to have that one confirmed :-).07:05
crimsunmdz: looks like more soname fun with liboggflac* ? [from Flac-dev] 07:13
fabbioneelmo: i think that apt-ftparchive is confused about update-notifier07:21
fabbioneelmo: there are sources in both main and universe07:21
fabbioneelmo: and binaries only in universe07:21
fabbionewhile the packages file for main reports the binary there07:22
=== robtaylor_ [~robtaylor@nat2.camtrial.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokoelmo: please sync graphviz and drdsl from non-free to multiverse07:31
seb128elmo: have you synced glib2.0 2.6.1-1 and easytag 1.99.2-2 ?07:32
mdzgah, my mail is bouncing07:34
mdzdaniels: we need a better interface to tell it "just clobber the config" than writing the md5sum to that file07:44
Kamiondaniels: pong?07:44
danielsmdz: what, such as CLOBBERXORGCONFIG=yes?07:44
mdzfabbione: main should have update-notifier, universe upgrade-notifier07:45
mdzfabbione: upgrade-notifier can be removed07:45
danielsKamion: could you please clag me your Option"Xkb(...)" settings?07:45
danielsKamion: (from the powerbook)07:45
mdzdaniels: something like that, perhaps07:45
mdzdaniels: or07:45
mdzdaniels: if the config is missing entirely, always create a new one07:45
fabbionemdz: well something is wrong07:45
Kamion        Option          "XkbRules"      "xfree86"07:46
Kamion        Option          "XkbModel"      "macintosh"07:46
Kamion        Option          "XkbLayout"     "gb"07:46
fabbioneupdate-notifier is in both universe and main07:46
mdzI don't see it in universe, only main07:46
Kamionmdz: new daily-live build up now07:46
Kamionpublishing actually worked automatically \o/07:46
mdzKamion: how many architectures?07:46
Kamionjust i386 for now, amd64 and ia64 didn't have fs builds last time I checked and I haven't fixed the powerpc yaboot.conf yet07:47
fabbionemdz: it's in both...07:47
fabbionehttp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/07:47
danielsKamion: thanks07:47
fabbioneeither my mirror was mirroring during the sync07:47
danielsmdz: mmm.  presumably branden had a reason for his paranoia and I'd like not to differ too much from Debian in that regard if possible, since it's already obtuse and a complete shit to deal with as it stands.07:48
Kamion(powerpc is relatively straightforward to fix, but I'm concentrating on this updated warty CD for Linux+ at the moment)07:48
mdzdaniels: that is not necessarily a safe assumption07:48
danielsmdz: point07:48
danielsKeybuk: what does dpkg do in this case?07:48
danielsit respects removed conffiles, no?07:48
mdzyes07:49
danielsright ...07:49
mdzwhich is insane and nothing deals with it properly and users get horribly confused07:49
danielslet me have a think about it later (i'd rather just do grunt work right now); itmt, that recipe should do it07:50
mdzKamion: what do you think about udevsend07:50
mdzKamion: if you mailed me, please hang onto it for a bit until my mail stops permanently bouncing07:50
Keybukmdz: for the Debian definition of config file, it makes sense07:51
=== sivang just read the backlog about ^_^, phew why can't he get a name?
mdzdaniels: just tried your method; it gives me the video modes question07:51
mdzdaniels: standard Ubuntu install on the same machine asks no questions07:51
Kamionmdz: sounds sane but I have to reserve judgement until I've tried it out :-)07:52
danielsmdz: please run with DEBUG_XFREE86_PACKAGE=yes DEBUG_XRESPROBE=yes07:52
mdzdaniels: believe it or not, I tried this already07:52
Kamionwhich I'll do07:52
danielsmdz: (are you sure you have xresprobe and laptop-detect installed?)07:52
danielsmdz: i got the same until I installed those two07:52
mdzlamont: ?07:52
mdzfabbione: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/update-notifier/07:54
mdzfabbione: it is an empty directory07:54
mdzKamion: does it also include the increased ramdisk_size?07:54
fabbionemdz: i think my mirror was mirroring during a sync...07:54
fabbioneand got everything mixed07:55
fabbioneKamion: i started mirroring the weekly-dvd locally...07:58
fabbionei will let you know how it goes :-)07:58
mdzdaniels: laptop-detect is present, but xresprobe is missing07:58
Kamionmdz: oh, no, not yet, sorry, this has been a very busy weekend for me and I've only just been keeping up with you lot :-)07:58
mdzKamion: no worries07:58
Kamionmdz: remind me what you wanted it bumped up to?07:58
Kamion65536 or something?07:59
mdzKamion: 65536 would be good for starters07:59
danielsmdz: righto07:59
mdzsomething which runs during dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg is calling dpkg-architecture07:59
mdzwhen it wants to be calling dpkg --print-architecture07:59
Kamionmdz: done for the next build07:59
Kamionhm, let's kick off another build now07:59
danielsmdz: yeah, already fixed07:59
mdzok07:59
danielsmdz: hence the note about needing dpkg-dev installed07:59
mdzKamion: are lamont's blobs showing up daily now? or will this be the one from friday?08:00
Kamionmdz: they seem to be daily08:00
Kamion[   ]  livecd-current.cloop    09-Jan-2005 06:38  501M08:00
Kamionnew image up08:00
mdzcool08:00
KamionPurging daily-live images older than 4 days ...08:01
Kamionthis is just LOVE08:01
mdz:-)08:01
fabbionemdz: would it be possible to ship a non compressed .iso for the live? together with a tool that will compress?08:02
fabbionethat might increase of a few N the rsyncability of it08:02
mdzdaniels: dpkg-dev is installed, in fact (though I'm not sure why), but of course gcc isn't08:02
mdzah, for alien, via lsb08:02
mdzfabbione: we could distribute an uncompressed filesystem image, I suppose08:03
mdzfabbione: I was thinking we could make the compressed image rsyncable if we really wanted to08:03
fabbionemdz: something that we can just toolfoo /path/to/uncompressed | cdrecord or something08:04
fabbionemdz: how?08:04
mdzfabbione: gzip --rsyncable08:05
fabbioneis there any negative impact on that?08:05
mdzslightly less compression08:06
mdza few %08:06
mdzwe would turn it off for the final, presumably08:06
fabbionethat can be quite a lot...08:06
mdzfabbione: 1% ~= 5M08:07
danielsgreat, more lib64 braindamage08:08
danielsthat means bedtime08:08
mdzfabbione: in exchange for rsyncability, it is a good tradeoff08:08
mdzdaniels: No devices detected08:08
danielsmdz: xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log please08:08
mdzRADEON: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:1:0:0) found08:08
mdzsent08:09
danielsthanks08:09
mdzdon't bother replying to the mail; my mail is fucked08:09
danielsif you could clag me lspci in /msg, that would be handy also08:09
mdzdaniels: it looks like the PCI busID of the old config remained08:11
mdzI desperately need for it to _ignore_ everything that came before08:12
mdzand create a completely new config based only on probes08:12
mdzusers need this too08:12
danielsyeah08:12
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Kamionguh, please stop changing evms soname, kthxbye08:14
mdzKamion: it changed once in September, and once in January08:15
Kamion  * [hoary]  libevms-2.4 -> libevms-2.5.08:16
Kamion -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@canonical.com>  Sun,  9 Jan 2005 19:10:08 +000008:16
Kamion  * [hoary]  Add libelfg0; libevms-2.3 -> libevms-2.4; libgcrypt7 ->08:16
Kamion -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@canonical.com>  Tue,  2 Nov 2004 23:47:39 +000008:16
mdzevms (2.4.0-1) unstable; urgency=low08:16
mdz  * New upstream release08:16
mdz -- Matt Zimmerman <mdz@debian.org>  Fri, 17 Sep 2004 17:55:21 -070008:16
mdzoh, that was the warty->hoary dealy08:17
mdzdelay08:17
Kamionalthough admittedly the latter was the first relevant debootstrap change after the great hoary merge08:17
danielsfwiw, debootstrapping hoary seems broken, unless my laptop is out of date08:17
mdzdaniels: see above08:17
danielsdoesn't have ubuntu-keyring and ethtool08:17
Kamionyour laptop's out of date08:18
danielsphat08:18
danielsalright, important appointment with a pillow08:18
Kamionyou must have debootstrap << 0.2.45ubuntu16; current is 0.2.45ubuntu1908:18
Kamion(well, counting the upload of two minutes ago)08:18
mdzKamion: is there any straightforward way to convince a CD-booted installer to act like a netboot one, and download udebs from the archive?08:19
mdzKamion: that'd be incredibly handy for live CD testing08:19
Kamionnot that I can think of08:19
Kamionwell, not since we mutilated the installer in the name of fewer questions :-P08:20
Kamionhm, you need net-retriever on the CD for that08:20
Kamionbut you also need to include download-installer in the initrd rather than load-cdrom, and I suspect that that would break things08:21
Kamionmdz: just use the netboot initrd, which also has casper-check in it08:22
Kamionthere's a netboot/mini.iso somewhere if actual netbooting is inconvenient for you08:22
Kamionhttp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso08:23
Kamiontry booting that with casper/enable=true and see what happens08:23
mdzactual netbooting could be made to be convenient for me08:24
mdzI have PXE stuff set up already08:24
mdzhm, no I don't08:25
mdzbut I have tftpd/bootp stuff set up08:25
Kamionsince you depend on cdrom-detect, /cdrom should be available despite netbooting by the time casper-udeb.postinst runs08:25
mdzyay for depends08:26
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=== Kamion notes the existence of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20050109.2/hoary-live-powerpc.iso
Kamion... and starts downloading08:38
KamionETA three hours or so, so off to relax08:39
fabbioneehhe08:39
fabbionethis new live methods are nice :-)08:39
Kamion(bootstrapping off other people's porting work)++08:40
=== mdz does a dance and starts downloading too
mdzETA 38 minutes08:45
mdzKamion: we need to find a reasonable way to enable DMA on the CD-ROM08:47
mdzit's fairly essential if you're using an IDE CD-ROM drive08:47
mdzand the installer would benefit as well08:48
mdzwe could add a simple "nodma" option for the command line, and start enabling it by default again08:48
mdznocdromdma or so08:48
mdzKamion: current i386 hoary-live seems to work great08:50
mdzKamion: and thanks to the hotplug/udev changes I made yesterday, no more problem with /dev/input/mice missing08:50
=== mdz updates the wiki
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fabbionemdz: i am not too happy to enable DMA by default08:56
sivangmdz: we should start a "derivation howto" on the wiki :)08:56
sivangmdz: for the livecd at least, if your infra is already mature.08:57
fabbioneit tends to do much more mess if either the cdrom or the ide controller or a combinantion of all the chain is faulty08:57
mdzsivang: brian sutherland was interested in this as well08:58
mdzfabbione: that may be, but it is worse to have a live CD without DMA enabled08:58
fabbionemdz: i will check something on the kernel cofig08:58
fabbioneconfig08:58
fabbioneafaik we enable DMA by default only on harddisk08:58
fabbionewe could remove that option08:59
sivangmdz: you have his email?08:59
fabbioneand iirc at the first sign of crappiness the kernel disable the DMA on cdroms08:59
sivangmdz: hmmm , come to think, I can look for him on the mailing list. don't bother.08:59
dokohmm, is /proc mounted in the buildd chroots by default? gcc-3.4 builds are failing :-(09:00
fabbionedoko: yes...09:01
robtaylor_mdz: sivang: i'll09:01
robtaylor_bah09:01
fabbionealso /dev/pts09:01
robtaylor_bi intereseted in helping out09:01
sivangKamion: Is there anything ready for derivation of ubuntu itself? that is, the installer cd. (not pushing or anything, curious)09:01
robtaylor_also. take care enabling dma on cdroms09:01
robtaylor_a lot of older drives just fail to work#09:02
fabbionedoko: ppc: make[6] : stage2/xgcc: Command not found09:02
mdzrobtaylor: however, it seems to work in a majority of cases, and the tradeoff when it's disabled is _huge_ for the live CD09:03
mdzfor an install, it just takes longer during a noninteractive period09:03
mdzon the live CD, it's constantly slowing user interaction09:03
dokofabbione: IIRC this only happens without /proc being mounted.09:03
=== robtaylor_ remembers getting ver confused one when our manufacturing came to him and said they could install the software on any recent hardware. turned out suppluiers had just started sendinga slightly different model of cdrom ...
fabbionedoko: it failed much much later on ia6409:04
robtaylor_mdz: i dont suppose it's dynamically settable?09:04
mdzit is09:05
robtaylor_mdz: ideal would be to have dma if it works..09:05
mdzthe trick is figuring out whether it works09:05
mdzit's a combination of chipset, drive, etc.09:05
mdzafaik09:05
robtaylor_cant switch it on, attemt to read a file, if failiure occurs, run without it?09:05
dokofabbione: the build succeeded on my machine. almost the same build succeeded on the debian buildd09:07
robtaylor_it'd be a shame if, after these changes that give us a live cd that should run on every system that ubuntu will install cleanly on, we then lose that with this :)P09:07
robtaylor_wish i still had access to asystem where i new dma on cdrom failed :/09:09
Nafallomy girl's machine fails09:09
Nafallofaulty hardware09:10
robtaylor_Nafallo:so it works fina normally and fails if you hdparm -d1 /dev/hdc?09:15
Nafallorobtaylor_: she installed warty today. I had to guide her to ALT+F2, hdparm -d0 /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 cause it hanged.09:16
robtaylor_Nafallo: righty, cool stuff09:17
robtaylor_Nafallo: dont uppose you have access to the machine atm? ;)09:17
Nafallorobtaylor_: it's on my left side :-).09:18
robtaylor_(didn't know warty set DMA by stanbdard on install =) .. it doesnt after install, it seems =))09:18
lamontE: Couldn't download libevms-2.409:19
=== lamont grumbles
lamontmdz/kamion: non-i386 is not currently debootstrapable...09:20
robtaylor_Nafallo: ok, could you try a script that say, hdparm -d1 /dev/cdroms/cdrom0;  ls /media/cdrom/ ; echo $?; hdparm -d0 /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 ...09:20
robtaylor_i cant remember quite what goes wrong =)09:21
Nafallorobtaylor_: from wartyinstall?09:21
robtaylor_Nafallo: just on the box as is will do fine09:22
Nafallooki09:22
robtaylor_(with a cdrom in, of course ;) )09:22
Nafallo*booting*09:22
robtaylor_(and mounted)09:22
Nafallodamn cdrom won't open with the ejectbutton :-P09:25
robtaylor_Nafallo: /usr/bin/eject? ;)09:26
Nafalloon my way, just have to create myself an account ;-)09:26
robtaylor_Nafallo: heh09:26
robtaylor_mdz: i'm thinking it may well be possible to sanely detect the problem with an ls {some file on cdrom} && dmesg |grep 'DriveReady' or somesuch might suffice for detection09:29
=== robtaylor_ rereads that sentence and realsies he forgot what he was writing halfway through =)
Nafallohehe, doesn't like mount /media/cdrom ;-)09:31
Nafallohdc: Timeout waiting for DMA09:31
Nafallohdc: drive not ready for command09:31
NafalloBuffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block xx09:32
robtaylor_Nafallo: how long did it take to fail?09:32
Nafallolike, *enter, BOOM!* ;-)09:32
robtaylor_ah thats ok then :)09:32
robtaylor_can you paste me the output of dmesg?09:33
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robtaylor_Nafallo: does something like d if=/dev/cdrom count=1 of=/dev/null give you the same result?09:35
robtaylor_s/d/dd09:36
Nafallohttp://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/dmesg09:36
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Nafallolast command succedded09:37
NafalloLOL, forgot how dmesg worked :-P09:40
Nafallofixed09:41
Nafallosame url :-)09:41
robtaylor_Nafallo: hmm, what about with bigger values for count?09:41
Nafallorobtaylor_: 9,99,999,9999 succedded09:42
Nafallotrying 99999 now ;-)09:42
Nafalloworked to09:43
Nafallohow large counts should I try?09:44
Nafallos/count/block/09:44
robtaylor_Nafallo: mmm09:44
robtaylor_maybe bigger block sizes..09:44
Nafallotrying six 9's now ;-)09:44
robtaylor_try bs=655536, count=109:45
robtaylor_or 209:45
robtaylor_oops one less 5's ther ;)09:46
jdublifeless: http://www.kerneltraffic.org/kernel-traffic/kt20050109_293.html#309:46
robtaylor_Nafallo: or bs=512K, count=1 something like that..09:46
Nafallobs=65536 count=[1,2]  succeded09:48
Nafallotesting bs=65536 count=99999 now09:50
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robtaylor_no, try larger values of bs09:50
robtaylor_Nafallo: and small values of count09:50
Nafallooki09:50
robtaylor_Nafallo: you can use K and M in specifying bs..09:51
Nafallodooh! bs=99999999 ;-)09:51
Nafallo100M would have been better :-P09:52
Nafallotransferred. and I believe I know why it isn't failing ;-)09:52
robtaylor_Nafallo: oh?09:53
Nafallohdparm /dev/cdrom shows DMA as off ;-)09:53
Nafallothe kernel does that automagically09:53
robtaylor_doh!09:53
robtaylor_double doh!09:53
NafalloI turned it on again ;-)09:54
Nafalloand runs bs=100M count=1 :-)09:54
robtaylor_Nafallo: well starting small is probably the sane option ;)09:55
Nafallosame errors and then kernel dropped DMA. test succedded :-P09:56
Nafallo10M gives error09:57
robtaylor_ok dma back on, start with bs=512 count=1, keep doubling till failure09:57
Nafallooki09:58
robtaylor_Nafallo: thanks :)09:59
Nafallo8M worked, so I tried 10M again. worked this time. 16M fails :-P.09:59
Nafallousing warty pressed livecd for info.10:00
Nafalloturned dma on and tried 10M again, and it fails :-P10:01
Kamionlamont: I beat you to spotting that one; upgrade debootstrap :)10:01
robtaylor_Nafallo: hmm10:01
Kamionsivang: not my department, sorry, dunno10:01
sivangKamion: k, np10:02
Nafallorobtaylor_: dd starts from the beginning of the CD every time?10:03
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robtaylor_Nafallo: yep, unless you use skip=bla10:05
Nafallorobtaylor_: even more odd then ;-)10:06
Nafallo10M fail, succedd, fail :-P10:06
lamontKamion: yeah - done.10:06
lamontI need to update ubuntu-meta too.10:06
lamontia64 is pretty booooring otherwise10:06
robtaylor_Nafallo: ah well, guess we can conlcude that dding is a bad way to cause the failure :)10:08
Nafallorobtaylor_: agreed ;-)10:08
jdubmdz, Kamion: http://www.advogato.org/person/mbrubeck/diary.html?start=9010:08
Nafallorobtaylor_: mounting is much more effective :-P10:09
lamont*** Error -5 compressing block 0! (compressed=0x7fbffff950, len=548682070304, uncompressed=0x526010, blocksize=65536)10:13
lamont/usr/sbin/livecd.sh: line 170:  9566 Segmentation fault      create_compressed_fs $IMG 65536 >livecd.cloop10:13
lamontew!10:13
=== lamont isn't sure about that .5 TB length...
Kamionlamont: didn't think ubuntu-base directly depended on libevms-2.5?10:16
Kamionit's not in the seed list itself, it's just a dependency ...10:16
robtaylor_mdz, Kamion: where can i find casper?10:18
mdzrobtaylor: apt-get source casper10:20
robtaylor_hmm10:22
=== robtaylor_ apt-get updates ;)
robtaylor_mdz: thx :)10:22
Nafallorobtaylor_: you need silverfairy anymore? :-)10:23
lamontKamion: another round of builds with latest debootstrap and ubuntu-meta will run at 22:06 london time.  should take about 25-30 minutes to complete.10:28
Kamionlamont: let me know when amd64/ia64 are available; it'll be easier to finish automating the builds if they have the same set of architectures10:30
Kamionotherwise, sure, I can kick off another build then10:30
mdzKamion: powerpc live CD didn't work10:31
mdzit's missing some modules we need10:31
Kamionreally? I haven't trimmed udebs yet10:31
Kamionwhat was missing?10:32
mdzdm-snapshot10:32
mdzlooks like i386 uses common/md-modules10:32
Kamionhuh10:32
mdzwhile powerpc has a separate one for some reason10:32
=== Kamion blames fabbione
lamontbtw, livecd-current.manifest10:32
mdzfabbione: ping10:32
mdzKamion: the udeb stuff in linux-source could probably use some review, to clean up inconsistencies like this10:33
Kamionyes10:33
mdzlikewise for the configs, really, but that's harder10:33
Kamionit was probably because the same set of modules weren't built for powerpc at the time I created that file10:33
Kamionthe udeb review has to go hand in hand with the config review to some extent10:34
jdubmdz: how's casper going?10:34
mdzjdub: rad10:34
lamontKamion: question for you... if the build fails, should livecd-current.* go away, or remain so that at least you get something?10:34
lamontcurrently they do the latter10:34
Kamionlamont: hm, think I'd prefer it to remain10:35
jdubmdz: is this dc-build related discussion?10:37
mdzjdub: that, and "damn, powerpc doesn't work because of something silly"10:37
jdubsucks being a second class citizen10:37
=== Kamion goes to fix that bug in Debian
lamontKamion: was thinking you would./10:37
Kamiondm-snapshot was only added to common/md-modules in September10:37
jdubhouse got robbed this morning :|10:37
lamonttomorrow I'll go leach bandwidth and download the then-current CD10:37
Kamionjdub: erk10:37
lamontjdub:???10:37
mdzKamion: just confirmed that i386 and powerpc build identical modules, so it should be safe to fix that10:37
jdubcouple of laptops stolen, wish they'd taken one or all of the three tvs we don't want10:37
mdzamd64 looks to be OK10:37
Kamionmdz: yes, I was checking it in Debian as well10:37
mdzia64 and sparc are also OK, seems like only powerpc was weird in this respect10:38
Kamionshall I file a bug on our kernel?10:38
mdzI'd prefer to just fix it, but fabbione has a kernel upload pending I think10:38
mdzso yeah, I guess a bug10:38
lamontmdz: does ubuntu-meta_0.16 have ia64 as well?10:39
mdzlamont: no10:39
lamontgrumble.10:40
mdzlamont: I thought you were going to do it10:40
lamontwanna roll 0.17, or shall I?10:40
lamontyeah - I tried, we stepped on each other.10:40
mdzJan 08 13:50:00 <mdz>   lamont: and you can do that whenever you're ready10:40
lamontI'll roll it now.10:40
mdzgo for it10:40
lamontagain. :-(10:40
Kamion#537210:41
KamionI wonder why dm-snapshot was added to kernel-wedge in the first place? Nothing in mainline d-i uses it.10:42
mdzKamion: maybe it went in with the rest of dm-*10:42
Kamionno, it was added explicitly and individually10:43
Kamion  * Martin Michlmayr10:43
Kamion    - Add dm-snapshot.o to md-modules if it's available.10:43
gsuvegcan i use gimp22 under warty ?10:44
lamont0.17 uploaded10:46
kentgsuveg, ask those kind of questions in #ubuntu10:49
mdzKamion: I wonder what tbm was up to10:52
mdzit would not be at all common to configure a snapshot during installation10:52
KamionI think he was working on RAID stuff at the time, but I don't remember the details10:53
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lamontsigh. local mirror is 852 files out-of-date. :-(10:59
lamontKamion: ia64 requeued to run at 22:36, this time with dependencies.. :-)11:13
gsuvegkent: ok. sorry11:18
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Kamionlamont: is amd64 long-term screwed, or will it start working with the current build?11:20
mdzlamont: is the issue corrected which was preventing amd64 live fs builds from being possible?11:23
Nafalloit's only the livecd that's broken on amd64?11:24
lamont8458 Segmentation fault      create_compressed_fs $IMG 65536 >livecd.cloop11:29
lamontyou mean that bug?11:29
lamont*** Error -5 compressing block 0! (compressed=0x7fbffff950, len=548682070304, uncompressed=0x526010, blocksize=65536)11:29
lamontstill there, cause unknown11:29
Mithrandirthat's amd64?11:29
lamontyep11:30
Mithrandirugh :/11:30
Mithrandirit used to work?11:30
lamontMithrandir: unknown11:30
lamontit used to die because there was no loopback support in the kernel.11:30
Mithrandirok11:30
lamontOTOH, amu built home-edition OK, iirc11:30
Mithrandirhe has an amd6411:30
Mithrandir?11:30
mdzlamont: no, I was talking about the lack of loop modules and what not on the build system11:32
mdzlamont: this is the first I think I've heard about it segfaulting11:32
mdzlamont: that 'len' value looks quite wrong11:33
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mdzI have this bad feeling that nobody has really used cloop on anything but i38611:33
mdzpowerpc should be fun11:33
lamontmdz: kernel was fixed yesterday.11:34
lamontand then it was failing because of evms-2.411:35
lamontwe're finally up to the segv failure.11:35
lamontnote that if you want to test a live-dvd, the uncompressed fsimg can be made available now... :(11:35
mdzlamont: try advfs?11:36
mdznever mind; they're the same now11:36
mdz * * Sun Okt 26 01:05:29 CEST 2003 Klaus Knopper11:37
mdz * - Changed format of index pointers to network byte order11:37
mdzthanks, Klaus11:37
mdzso there's hope11:37
mdzjdub: I need some mbox love from mailman11:38
Kamioncombo install/live DVDs need a bit more work at the cdimage end11:38
mdzjdub: my mail was fucked this morning and I missed a bunch of list mail11:38
mdzlamont: reproduced the amd64 crash11:38
Kamionat the moment I just have a LIVE flag; I need to invent another flag called INSTALL or something to allow for combinations11:38
Kamionshouldn't take too long, because I can find all the places where it's needed by grepping for LIVE :)11:39
mdzhmm11:39
mdzthat weird 'len' value comes from it printing the value of a pointer as an integer11:39
lamontthat would do it.11:40
mdzdoesn't explain the crash, though11:40
lamontdid mono move into main?11:40
mdz#define Z_BUF_ERROR    (-5)11:41
mdz     compress2 returns Z_OK if success, Z_MEM_ERROR if there was not enough11:42
mdz   memory, Z_BUF_ERROR if there was not enough room in the output buffer,11:42
mdz   Z_STREAM_ERROR if the level parameter is invalid.11:42
mdzlamont: should have11:42
mdzso it thought there was not enough room in the output buffer11:42
lamontmuine (in main) Build-depends a bunch of mono stuff...11:44
robtaylor_Nafallo: umm, hope you took my lack of reply as a 'no' ;)11:45
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Nafallorobtaylor_: indeed ;-)11:46
lamontKamion: i386 and ppc are there.11:48
lamontia64 is, um, borked11:48
lamontamd64 has the segv issue11:48
=== lamont works on ubuntu-meta_0.18
lamontmdz: or is shipping openoffice.org on ia64 a requirement?11:48
lamontand what's the best way to strip the OO.o stuff from the desktop list for just one arch?11:49
jdubmdz: ok11:49
Mithrandirlamont: I don't think that's advisable if we want elmo to retain his sanity.11:49
mdzlamont: ia64 seems pretty fucked overall as far as hoary is concerned11:49
=== lamont doesn't want to ship it either
lamontmdz: if we get oo.o gone from the u-d deps, then we should have a livecd.11:50
lamontthen again, anna doesn't seem to like it very much11:50
mdzI'm not inclined to bother11:50
lamontto bother with?  ia64/hoary11:50
lamont?11:50
mdzia64 live cd11:50
lamontah, yes.11:50
mdzand, if things don't change, ia64 hoary11:50
lamontit has a glibc now...11:51
magnonia64 does seem pretty screwed overall11:51
mdzthe community people who said they would look after it have disappeared, as far as I can tell11:51
lamontI've heard from t-bone, but only that he was hip deep until january started...11:52
lifelessjdub: thanks!11:53
lifelessfabbione: http://www.kerneltraffic.org/kernel-traffic/kt20050109_293.html#3 <--- can we get this, please please please11:54
jdubheh11:54
mxpxpodlamont: when I go to upgrade libmono0 on powerpc, every mono app wants to uninstall... is that being fixed?11:54
lamontso back to the mono question....11:54
lamontmdpxpod: it's ftbfs, and known broken upstream.11:54
mxpxpodftbfs?11:55
lamontthe last I've heard, they planned to upload what was needed once debian had built all the architectures they cared about.11:55
lamontfails to build from source.11:55
mxpxpodah, ok11:55
mxpxpodthanks11:55
lamontsee people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buidlLogs/m/mcs/1.0.4-111:55
lamontmdz/jdub: so does muine belong in universe, or did mono enter main while it was ftbfs11:56
lamont?11:56
MithrandirI should set up a local mirror, I think.11:56
jdublamont: mono shouldn't be in main...11:56
lamontMithrandir: of at least main/restricted for at least amd64...11:56
jdub(it's not here atm)11:57
mdzlamont: is t-bone back in the game and not going off on a ship somewhere?11:57
lamontjdub: the muine needs some love.11:57
lamontmdz: nfc11:57
jdublamont: what's up with it?11:58
Mithrandirwhat's the current recommended mirror script?  Debmirror?11:58
=== lamont will pester some more ia64 community folks
jdub(turns out muine 0.8.0 just came out, so my quick rebuild upload was pretty pointless)11:58
lamontChecking for already installed source dependencies...11:58
lamontdebhelper: missing11:58
lamontmono-jit: missing11:58
lamontmono-mcs: missing11:58
lamontc-sharp-compiler: missing11:58
lamontthat's from the build of muine_0.6.3-4ubuntu111:58
=== cartman is now known as HappyEagle
jdubi thought all the mono foo was fixed up now?11:59
=== HappyEagle is now known as cartman
lamontjdub: see 505212:00
lamontit's understood... it's ftbfs.12:00
lamontbuilt upstream, but not buildable in our archive.12:00

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