[12:04] <Mithrandir> you just need to point torrent clients, which have the full files, to my tracker.
[12:05] <trukulo> i did
[12:05] <trukulo> i did with the script you gave me
[12:06] <trukulo> well done :)
[12:07] <Mithrandir> are you sure you used the correct set of torrents?  I can't see anything coming from you in the logs.
[12:07] <trukulo> umm, i think i did
[12:08] <trukulo> i run:
[12:08] <sivang> Mithrandir: do you know hot to allow bittorrent under iptables?
[12:08] <trukulo> for f in *.avi; do btmakemetafile $f http://yours ; done
[12:08] <Mithrandir> trukulo: the torrents are fine, but are you sure that your client is using those .torrent files?
[12:09] <trukulo> that's the problem
[12:09] <trukulo> there aren't on a client
[12:09] <trukulo> because it's not my machine
[12:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: I need to configure my sarge firewall to allow this, when you have time , I'd appriciate if you pinged me :)
[12:09] <trukulo> tell me how to do remotely and i'll do
[12:09] <Mithrandir> sivang: http://btfaq.com/serve/cache/25.html
[12:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: THANKS
[12:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: oops the caps
[12:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: un intentional
[12:10] <Mithrandir> trukulo: hmm, and you can't access them with NFS or something either?
[12:10] <trukulo> no, sorry
[12:10] <Mithrandir> trukulo: what did you use to seed the old tracker with, then?
[12:10] <trukulo> azureus
[12:10] <trukulo> but not me
[12:10] <trukulo> one of badopi members
[12:10] <Mithrandir> ah, ok.
[12:10] <Mithrandir> can you put the files somewhere I can just download them and use them to seed, then?
[12:10] <trukulo> umm, it's difficult
[12:11] <trukulo> because the only site is where torrents are downloading
[12:11] <jdub> oh, are there videos of the badopi talks?
[12:11] <trukulo> i haven't seen those files yet :(
[12:11] <trukulo> yes jdub
[12:12] <Mithrandir> trukulo: ok, but I either need access to the files (so I can seed), or somebody else with access to the files need to seed. :)
[12:12] <trukulo> i know, i know
[12:12] <trukulo> that's the problem
[12:12] <trukulo> i'm trying to find a solution
[12:13] <Mithrandir> ok, I wasn't sure if you understood the problem or not, which was why I was spoon-feeding you.  (:
[12:13] <trukulo> sure, it's always better if you explain it
[12:13] <mdz> amu: filed https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5410
[12:13] <trukulo> but we have a phisical problem :)
[12:13] <Mithrandir> yeah, I understand that.
[12:14] <trukulo> i'll see what can i do
[12:15] <trukulo> i hope tomorrow i've downloaded this on my company
[12:15] <Mithrandir> are the files online anywhere?
[12:16] <trukulo> nop
[12:16] <lamont_r> moof
[12:16] <trukulo> well... on torrent, i think
[12:16] <trukulo> http://linuxbcn.homeip.net:6969/
[12:16] <amu> mdz: ok
[12:16] <trukulo> but not very well, i think
[12:18] <Mithrandir> ok, those seemed dead when I looked at them a little time ago
[12:18] <trukulo> could be
[12:18] <trukulo> wait a moment
[12:19] <trukulo> no, until tomorrow i can't do anything more
[12:20] <Mithrandir> ok, we'll take a look then
[12:20] <trukulo> wait a sec
[12:21] <trukulo> can you give me an ftp account to upload the files?
[12:21] <trukulo> or sftp
[12:22] <trukulo> i think i can do it now
[12:22] <Mithrandir> ok
[12:22] <trukulo> i'll upload *.avi and *.torrent
[12:22] <trukulo> ok?
[12:22] <Mithrandir> sounds good
[12:25] <lupus_> on boot I get pciehp.ko missing error
[12:26] <lupus_> is this a known issue?
[12:26] <Mithrandir> it complains about the hardware missing?
[12:26] <Mithrandir> or the kernel driver missing?
[12:27] <mdz> lupus_, Mithrandir: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1869
[12:27] <mdz> lupus_: please ask support questions on #ubuntu
[12:29] <Mithrandir> mdz: it should be easy enough for fabio to fix?
[12:30] <mdz> Mithrandir: fix how?
[12:30] <Mithrandir> make the modules not complain about being unable to load?
[12:32] <mjt> is bugzilla.ubuntu really that slow?  That bugreport took about 5 minutes to load here...
[12:33] <Kamion> it has to download the enormous component list for the drop-down box
[12:33] <Mithrandir> mjt: looks fast from here.
[12:33] <Kamion> remember that Mithrandir has godlike bandwidth
[12:33] <Mithrandir> bah, only 100Mbit here.
[12:34] <mdz> Mithrandir: I think the only way to do that would be to make them succeed in loading
[12:34] <mdz> really, they should never be loaded in the first place
[12:34] <mjt> strange. and i don't see large dropboxes there
[12:34] <mdz> (on hardware that doesn't support PCI hotplug)
[12:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: any idea why they are, then?  Buggy pci map?
[12:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: possibly; not sure
[12:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that page (https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1869) is 54k.  it shouldn't take much bandwidth to load it :P
[12:35] <opi> hi there
[12:36] <Kamion> mjt: look closely at the Package: field; if you try to delete a bit and type stuff into it, you'll see a javascript drop-down appear
[12:36] <mjt> gah
[12:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that should be cached, though
[12:37] <Mithrandir> the component cache is 163k.
[12:39] <mjt> looks like i have to get some [A] DSL/WaveLan @home, finally... ;)  (I'm on 28kbps dialup now)
[12:39] <Mithrandir> mjt: ah, that explains it. :)
[12:41] <sivang> Mithrandir: have you got the tracker running already?
[12:41] <Mithrandir> sivang: yes, but I don't have a full seed, so it's not too useful yet.
[12:46] <sivang> Mithrandir: trulux's site is not responding for me...it says I can't connect to the tracker
[12:47] <Mithrandir> sivang: I'm getting the videos uploaded now so I can seed them tomorrow.  I can give you the .torrents just fine, but they won't be particularly useful for a couple of hours.
[12:49] <sivang> Mithrandir: I'll let them downlaod - that way I won't have to be here when you finish the uploads
[12:50] <Mithrandir> sivang: http://tracker.err.no/
[12:56] <Mithrandir> gromit looks shiny -- http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/gromit/
[01:11] <mdz> Kamion: still here?
[01:20] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[01:20] <Kamion> http://people.debian.org/~markos/console_x_map.txt
[01:21] <mdz> Kamion: I'm doing a kernel build to try to fix this module breakage
[01:21] <mdz> Kamion: if it works, I'll want a new set of live CD builds
[01:21] <mdz> Kamion: going to be up for a bit?
[01:22] <Kamion> mdz: was planning to crash soon, karate training was tough and I'm not really so awake right now
[01:22] <Kamion> how long are we talking about?
[01:22] <Kamion> I could just cron it now ...
[01:22] <mdz> time to finish this build + quick test + upload + autobuilds
[01:22] <mdz> it's on sound/pci at the moment
[01:22] <mdz> so fairly close to being finished
[01:22] <mdz> no idea how long the autobuilds will take
[01:23] <mdz> depends on whether they hit the same buildd and get ccache love
[01:23] <Kamion> what kind of time of day would be good for live CD autobuilds?
[01:23] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, didn't we set things up so that I could trigger CD builds?
[01:23] <mdz> Kamion: can that apply to the live CD process as well?
[01:23] <Kamion> yes, you should be able to; run "ARCHES='amd64 i386 powerpc' cron.daily-live" with umask 002 in effect
[01:24] <mdz> Kamion: best time of day for me would be about 0800 UTC
[01:24] <mdz> that would give me the freshest crack for overnight download :-)
[01:24] <mdz> but it doesn't much matter, really
[01:25] <mdz> Kamion: I'll just kick off a build when I'm ready (if this works), then
[01:25] <mdz> no need for cron
[01:25] <mdz> well
[01:25] <lifeless> so, this warning is crap:
[01:25] <Kamion> let's do it anyway
[01:25] <lifeless> Preparing to replace linux-image-686 2.6.9-4 (using .../linux-image-686_2.6.10-1_i386.deb) ...
[01:25] <mdz> I do still want daily builds
[01:25] <lifeless> Unpacking replacement linux-image-686 ...
[01:25] <mdz> I think we're ready
[01:25] <lifeless> ...
[01:25] <lifeless> (Reading database ... 164343 files and directories currently installed.)
[01:25] <lifeless>    I repeat, this is very dangerous. If at all in doubt, answer
[01:25] <lifeless>     no. If you know exactly what you are doing, and are prepared to
[01:25] <lifeless> Removing linux-image-2.6.9-1-686 ...
[01:25] <lifeless>     hose your system, then answer Yes.
[01:25] <lifeless> Remove the running kernel image (not recommended) [No] ?
[01:26] <Kamion> what's removing linux-image-2.6.9-1-686?
[01:26] <mdz> lifeless: aptitude?
[01:26] <Kamion> is that aptitude's autoremove?
[01:26] <Kamion> if so, the warning is correct
[01:26] <lifeless> mdz: aptitude autoremoving the kernel.
[01:26] <Kamion> and aptitude needs a special case or something to stop it trying to remove the running kernel
[01:26] <lifeless> Kamion: yes, its *correct*, like tla is *corect* when it asserts.
[01:26] <mdz> yeah, that's a known problem with aptitude+kernel metapackages
[01:27] <lifeless> whichi is why I thought you'd like to know :)
[01:27] <mdz> not entirely sure what the correct solution is yet
[01:27] <lifeless> ok, already known, cool.
[01:27] <mdz> file a bug and assign to mvo
[01:27] <mdz> component: UNKNOWN
[01:28] <lifeless> done
[01:29] <Kamion> mdz: cronned for 0801 UTC (I have a built-in aversion to cronning things to run exactly on the hour); you can run it by hand too if you like, though let me know if anything ends up group-unwritable
[01:29] <mdz> Kamion: great, thanks
[01:30] <mdz> lamont: please arrange your live-fs builds to be complete by the time Kamion's daily build runs ^^^
[01:30] <Kamion> lifeless: ok, didn't know whether you meant crap => wrong or crap => unhelpful
[01:30] <Kamion> also somebody tell me when ia64 works so I can remove the hacky special case :-)
[01:31] <mdz> Kamion: what's broken?  filesystem.cloop builds?
[01:31] <mdz> eek
[01:31] <mdz> seb128: gaim upgrade just failed
[01:32] <seb128> Mithrandir did the gaim update
[01:32] <mdz> oh
[01:32] <Kamion> mdz: nothing interesting in http://weddell.ubuntu.com/~buildd/livecd/, so yeah
[01:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: bug coming your way
[01:32] <Kamion> mdz: hm, you can't really do CD builds at the moment actually
[01:33] <mdz> oh?
[01:33] <Kamion> mdz: the gnupg secret keyring for dists/hoary/Release.gpg on the CD had to be group-unwritable
[01:33] <mdz> gah
[01:33] <mdz> anna doesn't even check that, does it?
[01:33] <Kamion> this would all be so much easier if we had userv
[01:33] <mdz> can i get a little || true action?
[01:33] <Kamion> not yet, but I want to make it check that
[01:33] <Kamion> I'm kind of averse to having different results based on who kicks off the build
[01:34] <Kamion> there must be better ways to fix it ...
[01:34] <jdub> mdz: far away from the landslide?
[01:34] <jdub> mdz: it's been rainy there?
[01:34] <mdz> Kamion: DISABLE_RELEASE_GPG=yes ?
[01:34] <mdz> jdub: things are falling apart here
[01:35] <mdz> my living room is a swamp
[01:35] <Kamion> actually, does gpg care about group-readability?
[01:35] <opi> mdz: you don't have a roof?
[01:35] <jdub> mdz: ugh, badness :|
[01:35] <mdz> and I had to dodge rock slides, mud slides, flooded roads, non-functional traffic signals and wrecked cars on my drive this morning
[01:35] <opi> mdz: sounds bad
[01:35] <mdz> opi: I do have a roof, but I also have a leaking patio door
[01:35] <daniels> Kamion: will do
[01:36] <sivang> mdz: on the weather report you sent me it it said that a flood warning is still on...
[01:36] <mdz> LA county is one massive flood zone
[01:36] <opi> I guess, even if our politicans sucks and we have high level of unemployment, there is still a plus in living in Central Europe
[01:37] <sivang> mdz: but it's probably nice in your city when it's summer and no floods, it is home for some studios right?
[01:37] <mdz> opi: let's just say that this kind of weather is "unusual" for this area
[01:37] <mdz> http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USCA1107_c.html
[01:37] <Kamion> hey, it works fine when group-writable; gnupg is much less whiny than ssh about this sort of thing, yay gnupg
[01:37] <opi> mdz: that makes most of people unprepared, right?
[01:37] <mdz> normally 9cm of rain for the entire month of January
[01:37] <Kamion> mdz: fixed
[01:37] <mdz> we've had more than that in the past few days I think
[01:38] <mdz> Kamion: s/writable/readable/ ?
[01:38] <Kamion> mdz: either/both :)
[01:38] <elmo> Kamion: it doesn't whine about secring?
[01:38] <Kamion> I did chmod g+rw * in cdimage/secret/dot-gnupg/
[01:38] <Kamion> elmo: nope
[01:38] <elmo> huh
[01:38] <mdz> I know it bitches about ~/.gnupg
[01:38] <Kamion> elmo: not with --no-options --batch --no-tty --armour anyway
[01:38] <jdub> when i first saw the shot of the landslide, i thought the foliage was weird for south-east asia :|
[01:40] <mdz> jdub: yeah, not much for us to whine about given what just happened over there
[01:40] <Kamion> are you at risk of being flooded out of the house or anything?
[01:40] <elmo> mdz: hasn't stopped some of the newspapers in the UK
[01:41] <elmo> OH MY GOD, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE WITHOUT ELECTRICTY.. uh, yeah, wow, sucks to be us.  everyone else has it so easy.
[01:41] <mdz> Kamion: nah, it's only one room
[01:41] <sivang> opi: where are you in europe?
[01:41] <mdz> I just wring out the towels every hour or so
[01:42] <mdz> it's supposed to rain one more day, and then we get a respite
[01:42] <sivang> mdz: no draining holes , emergency pumps?
[01:42] <jdub> socal... scorchio!
[01:43] <mdz> sivang: they don't build such things in southern california
[01:43] <mdz> because it doesn't rain :-P
[01:43] <opi> sivang: Poland
[01:43] <opi> sivang: we have a lovely spring this winter
[01:43] <mdz> all hell breaks loose if it rains heavily for any period of time, which isn't very often
[01:44] <Kamion> elmo: although the substantial increases in flooding here aren't a very good sign for the world in general, extrapolating
[01:44] <mdz> pretty much everyone has some water problems at this point; it's saturated
[01:45] <sivang> mdz: ah right. I recall california as a very warm , dry and beach rich place from movies/tv/other media.
[01:45] <sivang> mdz: you live by the sea shore?
[01:45] <Kamion> everyone here either has a butler and a drawing room or lives in a hovel in London's East End, apparently
[01:46] <mdz> sivang: that's accurate for southern california; northern california is quite different
[01:46] <mdz> sivang: I live ~10 miles from the ocean, I guess
[01:46] <mdz> Kamion: you mean it isn't true??//
[01:47] <Kamion> mdz: I'll call the butler and ask him; maybe he knows
[01:47] <jdub> i thought everyone in london had multiple massive plasma tvs
[01:47] <mdz> Kamion: did I mention that I surf and audition for feature films?
[01:47] <sivang> mdz: I live about ~Km from the medi, I should also look out from floods if they become global...;)
[01:47] <Nafallo> yay! I should move to London at some time :-P.
[01:47] <sivang> mdz: hehehe
[01:47] <Kamion> mdz: your postcode's 90210, right?
[01:48] <sivang> Kamion: so not to judge enligsh people by the "Eastendres" ? :)
[01:48] <mdz> sivang: no, you must incorporate "The Young Ones" as well
[01:48] <jdub> sivang: 'the bill' and 'the young ones' are closer
[01:48] <jdub> aww
[01:48] <jdub> man
[01:49] <seb128> grumpf
[01:49] <sivang> mdz,jdub : ah shame, on BBC prime I only get ee, "two packs of lager and a bag of crisps", "Doctors" etc..
[01:49] <seb128> Version 0.9.5:
[01:49] <seb128> - Removed sudo backend; there's just no way to support it without
[01:49] <seb128>   crippling the feature set, or modifying sudo.
[01:49] <mdz> err
[01:49] <mdz> seb128: gksu?
[01:49] <seb128> libgnomesu has dropped its sudo support
[01:50] <mdz> that is, er, bad
[01:50] <seb128> mdz: no, libgnomesu ... proposed for GNOME 2.10
[01:50] <seb128> and used in the new gnome-system-monitor
[01:50] <elmo> GO GNOME
[01:50] <jdub> no, that's not so bad
[01:50] <seb128> jdub: do something !
[01:50] <mdz> seb128: either crippling the feature set or modifying sudo is better for us :-)
[01:50] <Kamion> it's your birthday
[01:50] <mdz> jdub: that is so bad
[01:50] <jdub> all our changes use gksudo
[01:50] <jdub> not libgnomesu
[01:50] <jdub> libgnomesu should die
[01:50] <elmo> I'm sure people have scripted that
[01:50] <seb128> jdub: ah ah
[01:50] <sivang> jdub: hehe
[01:50] <seb128> jdub: but that's proposed upstream
[01:50] <jdub> and hopefully it will (discussion on d-d-l)
[01:51] <mdz> doesn't g-s-t use libgnomesu?
[01:51] <seb128> jdub: that's an extra argument to get it kicked, no sudo support
[01:51] <jdub> mdz: no
[01:51] <mdz> ah, ok then
[01:51] <jdub> mdz: we make it use gksudo
[01:51] <jdub> seb128: we should comment on the thread
[01:51] <seb128> gnome-system-monitor uses libgnomesu BTW
[01:51] <jdub> seb128: but we have patches for it to use sudo
[01:51] <seb128> yeah, I need to update the patch :/
[01:52] <seb128> and the evil guy has broken the ABI again in the new libgtop
[01:52] <jdub> oh man
[01:52] <jdub> dude, you uploaded it!
[01:52] <jdub> to gnome ftp!
[01:53] <seb128> jdub: he changed the soname and that's not a devel platform
[01:53] <jdub> which is ok
[01:53] <seb128> yep, that's why I uploaded
[01:53] <seb128> that's just annoying to have to rebuild a bunch of stuff
[01:53] <jdub> but i'm looking at my ftp-release-list archive and feeling less sympathetic to you ;)
[01:53] <jdub>    N   11/01 | Sebastien Bacher   | 0.8K | gnome-system-monitor 2.9.4
[01:53] <jdub> -> N   11/01 | Sebastien Bacher   | 0.8K | libgtop 2.9.4
[01:53] <jdub> ^ heh
[01:53] <seb128> ah ah
[01:54] <seb128> need to do a control-center release tomorrow :)
[01:54] <jdub> awesome :)
[01:55] <jdub> great to have an active maintainer ;)P
[01:55] <seb128> :)
[01:55] <kent> sorry for disturbing now, but does gnome even have a control-center?
[01:55] <jdub> yes
[01:55] <jdub> that's the preference dialogues
[01:56] <sivang> jdub: btw, we now have default privileges groups support in g-s-t's user profiles, now if only I could understand the backend code while my perl-fu is not high lately.....it would also store this profiles to disk...:-)
[01:57] <sivang> *profiles(s)
[01:57] <jdub> sivang: rocking :)
[01:57] <seb128> jdub: mail desktop-devel about libgnomesu/sudo please :)
[01:57] <jdub> sivang: wish they were python...
[01:57] <sivang> jdub: I am thinking of taking garnacho there.....he hesitent somewhat with the amount of code there is there..
[01:57] <jdub> seb128: buffer being filled atm ;)
[01:57] <seb128> cool
[01:58] <lamont_r> mdz/kamion: live-fs builds runs at 0615 london, takes ~25-30 min
[01:58] <lamont_r> that should hit 0801 easily
[01:58] <mdz> lamont_r: sounds good
[01:58] <mdz> I'll set my cron job to download at 0900 or so
[01:58] <lamont_r> mdz: and he has it set up to fetch the most recent successful build...
[01:58] <mdz> and I will have FRESH HOT COMMITS EVERY MORNING
[01:59] <lamont_r> meaning you'll be making them, or testing them, I wonder...
[01:59] <daniels> Kamion: your Bill impersonation is for shit; you forgot some long melodrama involving someone who just discovered he was gay
[02:00] <mdz> brute-force kernel fix is a success
[02:00] <mdz> uploading
[02:00] <lamont_r> mdz: you want 2 builds a day, then? :-)
[02:00] <mdz> lamont_r: how long to build linux-source-2.6.10 on all live CD architectures?
[02:01] <mdz> lamont_r: I'll want to kick off a live CD build when they're done
[02:01] <daniels> Kamion: (amusingly, the outdoor scenes of Neighbours are filmed about a 15min drive north of me)
[02:02] <Kamion> that's when good neighbours become an infuriatingly catchy theme tune
[02:02] <lamont_r> ppc is 4:30, i386 3:30, and amd64 2:00
[02:03] <daniels> Kamion: becooooooooooome ... good ... frieeeeends
[02:03] <elmo> 4:30, that's SO WRONG
[02:04] <lamont_r> mdz: you uploaded another kernel??? dammit
[02:04] <mdz> lamont_r: er, yes?  2.6.10-4 was broken
[02:04] <lamont_r> elmo: yeah, adare did 2:53, sigma 2:23, and royal managed it in 3:45
[02:05] <lamont_r> mdz: sigh.
[02:05] <lamont_r> before or after 1700 your time?
[02:05] <mdz> -rw-rw----  1 mdz mdz 336 2005-01-10 17:03 ../../../linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-5_source.upload
[02:07] <elmo> the diff between -4 and -5 can't be that big?
[02:07] <elmo> at least in source form
[02:07] <mdz> the entire .diff.gz is only ~3.5M
[02:08] <mdz> but the binaries are rather large
[02:08] <elmo> yeah, but they won't build for like 4 hours
[02:08] <elmo> so whacking cron.daily isn't going to help anyone
[02:08] <mdz> ...unless they get lucky and hit the right buildd to get a ccache win?
[02:09] <mdz> wanna-build-ng ought to prefer the same buildd as the previous build
[02:09] <elmo> ccache isn't that much of a win for kernels 'cos of the CPU changes
[02:09] <mdz> don't they have a couple gigs of ccache? should be plenty
[02:10] <elmo> yes but it doesn't seem to cope with the difference gracefully
[02:10] <lamont_r> elmo: it'll let me mirror source now though ,instead of in 30 minutes
[02:10] <mdz> a full i386 build tree is ~500M
[02:10] <elmo> lamont: it's 3.5Mb?
[02:10] <lamont_r> elmo: point
[02:10] <lamont_r> nm
[02:10] <mdz> it will just cache each -march separately
[02:10] <elmo> mdz: doesn't IME
[02:10] <mdz> it does for me
[02:10] <lamont_r> IME?
[02:10] <elmo> every time I compile kernels for Debian as soon as I switch architectures, it goes back to "normal" speed
[02:11] <elmo> (err, CPU architectures)
[02:11] <mdz> it does a hash of all the flags which affect compilation
[02:11] <lamont_r> we have 3GB of cache, or was it 8?
[02:11] <mdz> lamont_r: what's the hit rate like?
[02:11] <elmo> lamont: who knows, but it should be 10x the latter of those :P
[02:11] <elmo> half a fricking terabyte and you won't even use 5% for ccache :P
[02:12] <mdz> elmo: that should be plenty for freeze time
[02:12] <lamont_r> wGB
[02:12] <lamont_r> 2GB
[02:12] <mdz> gah, that's nothing
[02:12] <mdz> that's not even a linux-source build on i386
[02:12] <opi> yawn
[02:12] <opi> time to catch some Zzz
[02:12] <elmo> dude.  half a terabyte.
[02:12] <elmo> seriously, what's the problem with giving it 50 or even a hundred?
[02:13] <mdz> elmo: he needs some space for pr0n
[02:13] <elmo> oh, yeah, fair point
[02:15] <lamont_r> 30GB except for ia64, which gets 4G
[02:15] <lamont_r> * 3 chroots - that barely leaves room for oo.o to build.
[02:15] <lamont_r> speaking of oo.o...
[02:16] <elmo> hmm, I hope ccache has sensible expiriation policies ;0
[02:16] <lamont_r> elmo: LRU, iirc
[02:16] <seb128> ok, time to sleep, 'night
[02:17] <lamont_r> mdz: ubuntu-meta... how do I tell it to not bother with oo.o on ia64?
[02:17] <lamont_r> they're arch: all, and depend on things that aren't there on ia64...
[02:18] <jdub> mdz: so we taslked about using a sudo group a while back
[02:18] <jdub> mdz: is it far too late to do that for hoary?
[02:22] <elmo> what's unix_chkpwd?
[02:22] <lamont_r> elmo: tell me that's not a kernel module...
[02:23] <elmo> no, it's some suid binary, with an unhelpful manpage
[02:24] <elmo> ah, nm, found 155583
[02:29] <lamont_r> 170MB of kernel images. and that's just i386/ia64
[02:29] <elmo> I suppose "just break NIS and let them suffer" is an option for us?
[02:29] <elmo> err, I DONT suppose
[02:30] <Kamion> jdub: it's relatively straightforward to do it on installs; what about upgrades?
[02:30] <mdz> lamont_r: you don't...they use the seeds
[02:30] <mdz> lamont_r: it's smart enough not to depend on things that don't exist on a particular arch, but it doesn't track dependencies
[02:30] <mdz> elmo: didn't I propose in that bug that the NIS package override its permissions or something?
[02:30] <jdub> Kamion: yeah, that's my owrry too - but we could just add the group line to sudoers and leave the existing configuration
[02:31] <mdz> elmo: anyway, that's how I think it should work
[02:31] <jdub> Kamion: perhaps add the first user to that group, too (would be safer to do that too)
[02:31] <mdz> lamont_r: if you want to make it that smart, feel free
[02:31] <elmo> mdz: yeah, like, two years ago
[02:32] <Kamion> jdub: on upgrades, you have to check that the first user still has unrestricted sudo privileges
[02:32] <Kamion> it's not trivial
[02:32] <mdz> lamont_r: why don't you share the cache between chroots?
[02:32] <lamont_r> mdz: how?
[02:32] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, this would only be for new installs
[02:32] <jdub> Kamion: add all the users that have ALL/ALL to the group?
[02:32] <elmo> su - user -c 'sudo -l' ? \o/
[02:32] <mdz> lamont_r: mount --bind
[02:32] <lamont_r> ??
[02:32] <lamont_r> nfs?
[02:32] <Kamion> jdub: means you have to parse sudoers in the maintainer scripts, which is a bit sucky
[02:32] <jdub> mdz: wouldn't want to do it on upgrades at all?
[02:33] <elmo> lamont: no, bind mount /home/buildd/.ccache
[02:33] <lamont_r> oh. chroots on the same machine
[02:33] <lamont_r> sigh
[02:33] <lamont_r> EBRAIN
[02:33] <Kamion> and arguably crackful - would be better to use sudo code to do that parsing
[02:33] <mdz> or put it in some directory that you already share; surely you share something already
[02:33] <lamont_r> nothing shared currently
[02:33] <mdz> jdub: no, I don't think so.  as Kamion says, it's tricky to get right
[02:33] <Kamion> elmo: su> freak
[02:33] <mdz> and since the semantics don't change anyway, what's the point
[02:33] <lamont_r> mdz: why should they have anything shared?
[02:34] <mdz> lamont_r: I suppose not in the buildd chroots
[02:34] <lamont_r> elmo: any policy objections to me creating ~buildd/ccache and bindmounting that into all the chroots as ~buildd/.ccache?
[02:34] <mdz> lamont_r: other than /dev at least
[02:34] <lamont_r> well, proc and devpts are mounted everywhere...
[02:34] <elmo> lamont: no
[02:34] <mdz> you use a static /dev?
[02:35] <lamont_r> mdz: uh, I guess...
[02:35] <mdz> how 1995
[02:35] <lamont_r> mdz: debootstrap hoary chroot-hoary http:....
[02:35] <lamont_r> simple, spartan, workable
[02:35] <elmo> mdz: considering the udev package just recently trashed several of our chroots...
[02:35] <lamont_r> and yes, very 1995
[02:35] <elmo> lamont: tho, I'm not sure I see the point
[02:35] <mdz> elmo: it what?
[02:36] <Kamion> saves me trying to figure out how to start udev at the right time, and how to get hotplug events to all the udev instances in all the chroots
[02:36] <lamont_r> elmo: bind mounting one 150GB ccache across all the chroots?
[02:36] <Kamion> (or bind-mounting)
[02:36] <elmo> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=287146
[02:36] <elmo> mdz: ^-- variant on that
[02:36] <lamont_r> won't help much until hoary release, and then hoary-security and hoary-updates and bendy will all benefit some
[02:37] <mdz> elmo: your fault for using 2.4?
[02:37] <elmo> I wasn't, you lamer
[02:37] <lamont_r> of course, with any luck, we'll have buildd-ng by then, and definitely want a shared ccache..
[02:37] <mdz> hippie
[02:37] <jdub> mdz: did you disable *all* patches, or just the stolen from head ones?
[02:37] <mdz> I bet you didn't compile in support for tmpfs, or sockets or something
[02:37] <elmo> mdz: no, it was a genunine package bug
[02:38] <elmo> it ALWAYS tried to start udev and do the bind mount of a tmpdir crap
[02:38] <mdz> jdub: I disabled all the new patches from -4 except the security-related ones
[02:38] <elmo> which doesn't work too well in a chroot where daemons don't start
[02:38] <mdz> jdub: (some of the security-related ones were stolen from head ones)
[02:38] <elmo> and more to the point it bind mounted an empty dir over the real /dev
[02:38] <jdub> ah, ok
[02:38] <lamont_r> elmo: the livecd fs build diverts sbin/udevd to avoid that issue... :-(
[02:38] <mdz> jdub: fabbione can sort out the rest tomorrow
[02:39] <mdz> or more likely, just upload a 2.6.10-2 version 2.6.10-6
[02:39] <mdz> we need a better naming scheme for the kernel ABI version
[02:39] <mdz> 2.6.10+2 or something
[02:39] <mdz> something which doesn't look like a Debian version number
[02:40] <elmo> yes please
[02:41] <elmo> typing those in byhand breaks my brain
[02:42] <mdz> I'll add it to the hoary+1 list, no desire to mess with it at this stage
[02:42] <jdub> mdz: still unhppy with bendy? :)
[02:43] <mdz> jdub: I fucking hate bendy
[02:43] <jdub> CKK-CHHK COMING THROUGH LOUD AND CLEAR
[02:43] <elmo> mdz: let's just go on strike
[02:43] <mdz> warthogs are warty in a punnish sort of way, and some hedgehogs could certainly be hoary, but a bendy badger is a stretch in the wrong direction
[02:44] <jdub> haha
[02:44] <jdub> bend and stretch
[02:44] <jdub> reach for the badger
[02:45] <Nafallo> huh? the *hogs are already used? :-P
[02:45] <mdz> if anyone from the press asks me about the names, I will respond unhesitatingly "I hate those goddamn names"
[02:45] <elmo> hey, what happened to bugzilla?  did someone tighten up the perms?
[02:46] <stub> We can truncate it to bent badger (too much crack)
[02:50] <lamont_r> so how do I get the mixer to give me > 100% volume?
[02:50] <elmo> yeah, and while you're at, how do I get time to go backwards?
[02:50] <elmo> [i.e. huh?
[02:50] <mdz> lamont_r: you want it to go to eleven?
[02:51] <lamont_r> I just want more volume...
[02:51] <lamont_r> mencoder to rip a dvd, and now I can barely hear the volume...
[02:51] <azeem> lamont_r: you need a GHETTO BLASTER
[02:51] <azeem> ask daniels for details
[02:52] <lamont_r> ah, bumping up PCM seems to maybe have helped.
[02:52] <lamont_r> or maybe it was one of all those others I moved from 70->100%
[02:52] <lamont_r> :-)
[02:52] <azeem> "energize"
[02:57] <stub> I assume /usr/share/sounds/gaim disappearing is not good?
[02:58] <jdub> might be a gaim upgrade issue
[02:59] <jdub> there were some funny package problems before
[02:59] <stub> Hmm... looks like a load of packages decided to not install before, including gaim-data
[02:59] <jdub> hrm, sounds is in the latest package i have
[02:59] <stub> Although they downloaded fine
[03:00] <jdub> ah, i don't ahve the latest
[03:00] <jdub> do you have gaim-data installed?
[03:00] <Nafallo> lamont_r: put a good reciever between computer and speakers :-).
[03:00] <stub> Got it now - no idea what happened unless Synaptic saved its old logs
[03:01] <jdub> gaim definitely depends on gaim-data, mmm
[03:03] <Nafallo> yikes! my clock must be screwed. it says it's 3:02 over here :-P
[03:03] <azeem> yeah, my clock pretends it's just 3:00
[03:04] <Nafallo> 3:04 with ntpdate. time for me and lappy to continue in bed then ;-).
[03:06] <jdub> stub: gaim-data doesn't replace gaim
[03:08] <stub> All I know is I did a reload, full update and ignored the output. gaim-data was then missing. Just doing another full-apply (no reload) installed a load more packages and it was fine.
[03:08] <jdub> yeah
[03:18] <sivang> how do people get du2br.user addresses? is this somekind of a new TLD/proxy through which they connect? intersting..
[03:20] <Kamion> sivang: no, it's a cloak, basically an illusion created by the IRC server
[03:20] <Kamion> see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#projectcloak
[03:20] <du2br> sivang, http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[03:21] <Kamion> (or that)
[03:21] <sivang> Kamion: tnx for the link.
[03:21] <sivang> du2br: you too
[04:49] <sivang> daniels: did you ever get to kylie minouge when she acted for neighbors? :)
[04:53] <zeratha> I've been getting some help in the #ubuntu channel, but this problem has yet to be resolved. I installed Ubuntu and sound worked great. Then I updated the system, and now I am getting the no mixer element error. I tried gst-register-0.8 and that didn't help. I get errors from both XMMS and totem. Any ideas?
[04:54] <lamont> zeratha: #ubuntu is the right place for that question...  There are lots of developers there.
[04:54] <lamont> this would be the channel to discuss your proposed code change to fix it...
[04:56] <zeratha> lamont, well, there are so many people ther and so much chatter, I was hoping someone here might have a quick work-around or fix. I'd rather not reload the system with Fedora, just because I'm more familar with it :-(
[04:56] <lamont> you running hoary or warty?
[04:57] <zeratha> warty
[04:58] <zeratha> ok thanks anyhow.
 i'm seeing the same behaviour with my cdrom drive and kernel 2.6.10 - it locks the door (mplayer (it's dvd really), xmms, ..)
 2.6.9 was ok with that - no door locking
[05:04] <HostingGeek> Why did you ignore HIM!!!!!
[05:05] <lamont> HostingGeek: who are you talking to?
[05:06] <HostingGeek> you guy didn't answer him for an hour and talk about other stuff
[05:06] <lamont> dunno - first I've seen of the discussion.
[05:07] <lamont> I have noticed that 2.6 doesn't like to let you eject mounted drives.
[05:07] <lamont> s/drives/cds, etc/
[05:07] <lamont> was that in #ubuntu, or here?
[05:27] <mdz> lamont: what's happening with that kernel build?
[05:30] <lamont> i386 and ppc chunking along, amd64 done
[05:30] <lamont> start time was ~0135 london for all 4
[05:30] <lamont> well, ia64 was 0225 start time
[05:30] <lamont> but I know you don't care about that. :)
[05:31] <lamont> it's only 0431 there now
[05:40] <mdz> ok, thanks
[05:45] <lamont> shtoom?
[05:53] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:54] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[05:55] <fabbione> hmmmm
[05:55] <fabbione> i guess i will need to do some bootstrapping dance for mono on sparc...
[05:56] <lamont> fabbione: thom was working on figuring out the steps to that dance
[05:56] <fabbione> ah ok
[05:56] <fabbione> humpf a lot of stupid FTBFS
[05:56] <fabbione> lqtplay.c:32:31: X11/extensions/Xv.h: No such file or directory
[05:56] <fabbione> lqtplay.c:33:34: X11/extensions/Xvlib.h: No such file or directory
[05:56] <lamont> heh
[05:56] <lamont> we know what caused those... :)
[05:56] <fabbione> blame GTK!
[06:00] <mdz> fabbione: I had to abuse the kernel, I'm afraid
[06:00] <fabbione> mdz: ?
[06:00] <mdz> fabbione: #5410
[06:00] <fabbione> checking...
[06:01] <fabbione> it hasn't been assigned to me...
[06:01] <mdz> I closed it
[06:01] <mdz> it was assigned to you, but you were asleep
[06:02] <fabbione> hmmm
[06:02] <fabbione> no
[06:02] <fabbione> i don't think that is the correct solution
[06:02] <mdz> you really think so? :-P
[06:02] <mdz> however, it was the simplest way to un-break it
[06:02] <fabbione> yes because all these modules are shipped with the kernel
[06:03] <fabbione> so even if the abi changes they should be able to load
[06:03] <mdz> no
[06:03] <fabbione> the abi is only for external kernels
[06:03] <mdz> there is a good reason why we change the package name when the ABI changes
[06:03] <fabbione> external-modules
[06:03] <mdz> users upgrade to the new kernel, and then they can't load any modules
[06:03] <mdz> until they reboot
[06:03] <mdz> and in this case, no modules would load at all on the live CD
[06:03] <fabbione> mdz: that's why there is a warning that when you upgrade the kernel you need to reboot the machine
[06:04] <mdz> fabbione: it is not OK to change the module ABI without changing the package name
[06:04] <fabbione> mdz: if i knew that there was an ABI change i would have change the package name
[06:05] <lamont> mdz: looking at 4148, I'm inclined to upload 1.4.3-20ubuntu2 == debian/1.4.3-20.  thoughts?
[06:05] <mdz> lamont: agreed
[06:05] <lamont> since there isn't a -21 to sync,and all that.
[06:05] <mdz> lamont: all yours
[06:06] <fabbione> mdz: did you kept an interdiff between -4 and -5?
[06:06] <mdz> fabbione: I can generate one if you need it
[06:06] <fabbione> mdz: that would be nice.. thanks
[06:06] <mdz> but all I did was create a 00list-5 which did not apply those patches
[06:06] <fabbione> yeah but which patches?
[06:06] <fabbione> all the stolen from head?
[06:07] <fabbione> because some of them were applied before this release too
[06:07] <mdz> I knew what I was doing
[06:07] <fabbione> i need to wake up my gf
[06:07] <fabbione> brb
[06:07] <fabbione> i know you know :-)
[06:08] <mdz> I started from -3 and added the security patches from -4
[06:08] <mdz> diff mailed
[06:10] <fabbione> thanks
[06:12] <fabbione> mdz: you lost a couple of security patches on the way :(
[06:13] <mdz> fabbione: if so, they were not marked [SECURITY] 
[06:13] <mdz> I applied those
[06:13] <fabbione> sorry but they are
[06:13] <mdz> which?
[06:13] <fabbione>   * [SECURITY]  http://seclists.org/lists/fulldisclosure/2005/Jan/0270.html:
[06:13] <fabbione>     - Add patch 031-sg_scsi_ioctl_int_overflows.dpatch.
[06:14] <mdz> hmm
[06:14] <mdz> I remember pasting that one
[06:14] <fabbione> no worries
[06:14] <fabbione> it's nothing easy to exploit
[06:16] <fabbione> the second one was in that pool of patches, but it was not marked sa SECURITY.. that's right
[06:16] <fabbione> it is a proactive patch in that direction
[06:16] <thully_> so, what's the status of suspend userland being merged into hoary?
[06:17] <thully_> suspend - as in suspend-to-RAM, suspend-to-disk, etc etc
[06:17] <fabbione> mdz: how long ago did you upload -5?
[06:17] <fabbione> ppc is not even around yet....
[06:17] <fabbione> ehhe
[06:17] <mdz> fabbione: a few hours
[06:17] <fabbione> ok
[06:17] <fabbione> plan is to upload -6 to readd the security patch
[06:18] <mdz> 1703 local time
[06:18] <fabbione> and jump the abi with all the stuff from -7
[06:18] <mdz> sounds good
[06:18] <fabbione> hey Keyser
[06:19] <fabbione> KeyserSoze: back to ubuntu after gentoo?
[06:19] <mdz> I just saw that film for the first time yesterday
[06:20] <fabbione> which film?
[06:20] <fabbione> the Usual Suspects?
[06:20] <mdz> yes
[06:20] <fabbione> eheh
[06:21] <jdub> mdz: whoa!
[06:21] <fabbione> mdz: you should see Secretary
[06:21] <fabbione> that's a weird movie
[06:21] <mdz> I saw it
[06:22] <fabbione> did you?
[06:22] <fabbione> ehe
[06:22] <mdz> it came around on mythtv
[06:23] <Keybuk> I've never properly seen it
[06:23] <fabbione> i think to really appreciate some details you need to know a bit about BDSM and watch it a couple of times
[06:24] <Keybuk> Usual Suspects, that is
[06:24] <Keybuk> fabbione: you know a bit about BSDM? :p
[06:24] <fabbione> ahhh
[06:24] <fabbione> i tought Secretary
[06:24] <fabbione> :P
[06:24] <thully_> Hi - I've got a suggestion for Hoary's live CD
[06:25] <Keybuk> stars Daniel Jackson 1 and Donnie Darko's sister
[06:25] <Keybuk> *interesting*
[06:25] <lamont> fabbione: is linux-meta happy with ia64?
[06:25] <fabbione> lamont: afaik it should..
[06:25] <fabbione> lamont: we did the same day we did sparc...
[06:26] <lamont> fabbione: right.  closing the bug
[06:26] <thully_> Could the kernel headers be added to it?  I feel that these would be useful if there was a dire situation when a network card/modem without native drivers needs to be used from the live CD - the drivers could be built w/linux-headers
[06:26] <fabbione> lamont.
[06:26] <fabbione> lamont: sure that the bug is 3442?
[06:27] <lamont> 3442 is fontconfig
[06:27] <lamont> 4142 was linux-meta
[06:27] <lamont> and closed
[06:27] <lamont> 3442 is still hanging in the wind
[06:28] <fabbione> lamont: checking.. just a sec. i recall doing that change in fontconfig
[06:28] <lamont> although I'm tempted to sneak netehack onto it.:-)
[06:28] <lamont> fabbione: if you know what to do, feel free to hijack it...
[06:28] <mdz> thully_: they wouldn't be useful without a C compiler
[06:28] <thully_> then add the C compiler also - that may be useful also if something used for diagnostic purposes needed to be compiled
[06:29] <mdz> thully_: space is limited
[06:29] <fabbione> lamont: i will give you the solution.. use laptop-detect
[06:29] <fabbione> lamont: as we do in Xorg
[06:29] <fabbione> lamont: that portion of the code has been introduce in Debian for a better x <-> fontconfig interaction
[06:29] <mdz> thully_: linux-headers + build-essential is over 100M
[06:29] <fabbione> lamont: so that one of the 2 questions can go away if the other has been answered already
[06:29] <thully_> I see - I thought they were less than that
[06:30] <fabbione> lamont: we don't ask any of them because we have a common source of info in laptop-detect
[06:30] <mdz> the kernel headers have become enormous
[06:30] <fabbione> lamont: so basically you can just keep what we have
[06:30] <thully_> I knew that there was no space crunch on the install CD - didn't know about the live CD though
[06:30] <lamont> thully_: there's always space crunch
[06:30] <thully_> BTW - can you install debs when booted off the liveCD?
[06:30] <lamont> once you start shipping something, it's hard to stop
[06:30] <fabbione> lamont: and don't listen to all these people that rants about one method or another.. 
[06:30] <lamont> thully_: certainly
[06:31] <fabbione> lamont: tell them to buy better hardware and reassign the problem to gtk
[06:31] <lamont> fabbione: you want to go ahead and do that merge, then?
[06:31] <fabbione> lamont: i need to fix the kernel
[06:31] <thully_> lamont: warty's install CD could have had about 150MB more on it
[06:31] <thully_> that doesn't seem like space crunch
[06:32] <thully_> but I see that the live CD is a different story
[06:32] <fabbione> lamont: i am afraid that as porter you will be involved :)
[06:32] <lamont> thully_: that's because we agressively approached things as though there were a space crunch
[06:32] <lamont> fabbione: np
[06:32] <fabbione> mdz: the kernel -> bzip thingy is a pain to test
[06:32] <lamont> thully_: once it's gone, it's pretty much gone.
[06:32] <fabbione> mdz: i will do as soon as i can trash a build for it
[06:32] <fabbione> mdz: it needs some changes in kernel-package
[06:33] <mdz> fabbione: really?  it should just be dh_builddeb -- -Zbzip2
[06:33] <thully_> when will the acpi userland support packages be merged into hoary, anyway?
[06:33] <mdz> ah, ok
[06:33] <mdz> thully_: which ones?
[06:33] <mdz> I saw mjg59 upload at least some
[06:33] <thully_> yes - his - the ones that allow suspend-to-RAM as well as suspend-to-disk
[06:34] <fabbione> mdz: no.. it uses manually dpkg --build in several points
[06:34] <fabbione> mdz:
[06:34] <fabbione> so i need to do some manual love...
[06:34] <fabbione> but i was thinking that i can flaggify it ;)
[06:34] <fabbione> somehow...
[06:34] <fabbione> so we can switch anytime
[06:34] <lamont> Mithrandir: you awake yet?
[06:35] <lamont> Mithrandir: any chance you could look at the current libsdl1.2 on amd64 and tell me what's borked?
[06:35] <fabbione> s/not/note
[06:35] <lamont> fabbione: feh.  I'm online somewhere between 5:30 and 6:15 each school day morning
[06:35] <lamont> didn't realize you were in that camp too.
[06:35] <fabbione> lamont: well that i am not the only one :-)
[06:36] <lamont> heh
[06:36] <fabbione> lamont: i need to wake up my gf every morning
[06:36] <fabbione> she can't wake up by herself
[06:36] <fabbione> OH GREAT!
[06:36] <fabbione> only 430 message on LKML in the last 12 HOURS!
[06:36] <lamont> LOL
[06:37] <fabbione> and approx 25000 lines of diff between bk9 and bk13
[06:37] <fabbione> oh diff.. in the changelog!
[06:37] <fabbione> not in the code
[06:37] <lamont> linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-5_20050111-0135-i386-successful
[06:38] <fabbione> ehe there will be -6 and 7 up today
[06:38] <smurfix> fabbione: seems like a fulltime job just to keep track of LKML these days
[06:38] <fabbione> smurfix: it is
[06:38] <lamont> mdz: ppc continues
[06:38] <fabbione> i have been doing nothing else since i agreed with mdz that i was going to do 2.6.8.1 -> 2.6.9 :P
[06:39] <lamont> sigh... ia64 build time for linux-source-2.6.10 is pretty solidly 7:30
[06:39] <mdz> fabbione: if I recall correctly (and I do), what you said was that you would "look after the kernel"
[06:40] <mdz> not 2.6.8.1, not 2.6.9, not 2.6.10..."the kernel" :-)
[06:40] <fabbione> mdz: right.. you trapped me in somekind of obscure way of english talking...
[06:40] <fabbione> :P
[06:40] <lamont> fabbione: why -6 _and_ -7?
[06:40] <fabbione> lamont: did you unfuck ia64?
[06:40] <fabbione> lamont: -6 to readd the security patch that slept out
[06:40] <lamont> ia64 is building stuff again.  doko and I got it happy
[06:40] <fabbione> -7 to bump the ABI
[06:41] <fabbione> and readd all the stuff that were in -4
[06:41] <lamont> happy happy joy joy
[06:41] <fabbione> that means renaming all the packages
[06:41] <mdz> we need to wait for -5 or -6 to build before uploading -7
[06:41] <fabbione> and waiting for elmo to bless NEW binaries again
[06:41] <lamont> it's just that my poor mirror is struggling to keep up and failing... :-)
[06:41] <fabbione> mdz: yup...
[06:42] <fabbione> well.. i can upload -6 pretty soon
[06:42] <lamont> mdz: rather, need to wait until the daily cd build finishes before uploading
[06:42] <fabbione> so that it will be done for today
[06:42] <mdz> that would be nice, too
[06:42] <fabbione> and -7 tomorrow
[06:42] <lamont> fabbione: -6 will not be done for today's cd build run
[06:42] <fabbione> lamont: no big deal
[06:42] <fabbione> it's only a security patch on scsi that is missing
[06:42] <lamont> as long as it doesn't land in a way that breaks the cd builds...
[06:42] <fabbione> it's not like you can gain root farting on the console...
[06:43] <mdz> I'm not sure that we need another upload of 2.6.10-1
[06:43] <mdz> once -5 builds, we can roll a live CD and then go to 2.6.10-2
[06:43] <fabbione> mdz: well somebody might have -1 and not upgrade to -2
[06:43] <fabbione> that's why i would be more happy to have -1 completely fixed
[06:43] <fabbione> ohhh i knew it
[06:43] <mdz> fabbione: they could also be back on 2.6.9 :-)
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: now you convinced me
[06:44] <mdz> another vulnerability?
[06:44] <fabbione> DIE USERS DIE UNDER THE POWER OF SCSI IOCTL INT OVERFLOW!
[06:44] <fabbione> no
[06:44] <fabbione> let's go for -2 directly
[06:44] <mdz> ok
[06:44] <fabbione> lamont: can you give me the green light for the cd to build?
[06:45] <mdz> fabbione: we were discussing earlier that we should use a different scheme for the ABI version
[06:45] <fabbione> or should i wait for -5 to be on all arches?
[06:45] <fabbione> mdz: such as?
[06:45] <mdz> fabbione: because it is confusing to have 2.6.10-1, 2.6.10-2, etc. (they look like package version numbers)
[06:45] <fabbione> i agree... 
[06:45] <mdz> dunno, anything really...2.6.10-a, 2.6.10-b
[06:45] <mdz> 2.6.10+1
[06:45] <fabbione> what's the solution?
[06:45] <mdz> 2.6.10-blue, 2.6.10-yellow
[06:46] <fabbione> 2.6.10.abi1
[06:46] <fabbione> 2.6.10.abi2
[06:46] <fabbione> 2.6.10.abi3
[06:46] <fabbione> etc...
[06:46] <fabbione> that would be even more clear....
[06:46] <lamont> fabbione: livecd fs build is at 0615 (as is the d-i daily build).  cdrom construction runs at 0801 london time.  Not sure how long it runs, but I expect that it's done by 0900 london time.
[06:46] <mdz> hmm
[06:46] <lamont> Kamion would be the one to ask for a 'go-for-kernel-upload' signal once the cd's are built
[06:46] <fabbione> that means a few hours from now...
[06:47] <mdz> lamont: aren't we already too late?
[06:47] <fabbione> lamont: ok..
[06:47] <mdz> or doomed to miss it, at least?
[06:47] <lamont> mdz: new upload will not make todays run
[06:47] <lamont> but might just manage to break at least amd64
[06:47] <fabbione> i can wait
[06:47] <lamont> (amd64 is only 2 hours to build the kernel)
[06:48] <fabbione> i need to test 2/3 things before uploading anyway
[06:48] <mdz> fabbione: please ask Kamion to run a new build when he wakes up (once -5 is built)
[06:48] <mdz> (live CD build)
[06:48] <lamont> we should turn on snapshotting so that kamion can have the same image as the rootfs builds.. :-)
[06:49] <fabbione> mdz: do we have any reliable way to know when the ABI in the kernel changes?
[06:49] <fabbione> other than for me trying to understand some really obscure patches?
[06:50] <mdz> nope
[06:50] <mdz> they can change it at any time in bk
[06:50] <mdz> herbert or dilinger should be able to tell you what to look for
[06:50] <fabbione> mdz: you also forgot to copy 00list-4.hppa to 00list-5.hppa
[06:50] <fabbione> ok. i can ask them
[06:50] <lamont> woot.  ppc may actually make this cron.dailky
[06:52] <mdz> fabbione: honestly I do not like the 00list method very much
[06:52] <lamont> it seemed like the abi changed every upload before...
[06:52] <mdz> it seems error-prone
[06:52] <lamont> that's certainly the most conservative approach, but not very nice..
[06:52] <mdz> lamont: before when?
[06:53] <lamont> from what I saw of the 2.4 and 2.6 herbert kernels in debian.
[06:53] <mdz> fabbione: I think I would rather have it apply every patch in debian/patches, so that it is obvious what is active and what is not
[06:53] <lamont> but that's just my deluded memory speaking...
[06:53] <mdz> nah, he only changed it when necessary
[06:54] <lamont> quite likely that I only noticed it when it had needed to change
[06:54] <fabbione> mdz: i did never spend much time on the packaging...
[06:54] <fabbione> mdz: i just used the same packages that Herbert did...
[06:54] <mdz> fabbione: yes, I know
[06:54] <mdz> I had the same concern with it originally, I just did not have much motivation to change it
[06:54] <fabbione> but if you want to give me a couple of days and i can make that package a bit more shiny
[06:54] <fabbione> ;)
[06:54] <mdz> since you are working on it, it is your decision
[06:55] <fabbione> mdz: it is very time consuming...
[06:55] <fabbione> to change it i mean
[06:55] <mdz> I am concerned about having hppa present if it makes it easier to make this kind of mistake
[06:55] <mdz> I assume it could not break the build on other arches, though
[06:56] <lamont> fabbione: btw, I would be happy to be on the kernel team with you.
[06:56] <fabbione> lamont: that would rock!
[06:56] <mdz> what time is the CC meeting?
[06:56] <fabbione> mdz: 16:00 UTC
[06:56] <mdz> gah
[06:56] <fabbione> and i will be there on time
[06:57] <mdz> good night, then
[06:57] <fabbione> night :-)
[06:57] <lamont> me too, I fear.
[06:57] <fabbione> mdz: we don't want big fat patches for one arch to be applied to all of them
[06:57] <fabbione> night lamont ;)
[06:57] <mdz> fabbione: yes, this is why it is a problem to support architectures which are not in mainline
[06:57] <fabbione> mdz: last question: linux-headers-2.6.10-abi2-
[06:57] <fabbione> ?
[06:58] <mdz> fabbione: let's not change it yet, and wait until post-hoary
[06:58] <fabbione> mdz: oh ok.. fine for me
[06:58] <mdz> no hurry, just something to think about
[06:58] <mdz> good night
[06:58] <fabbione> night
[07:06] <fabbione> KLINE on the way
[07:29] <wasabi> Howdy. So, who do I speak with about getting a package into Hoary? It's a pretty big package: Eclipse 3.0.
[07:30] <wasabi> It's heading to Debian, but it'll probably be hung up in experimental until the end of time (when Sarge is released).
[07:31] <aj> why would you say that?
[07:31] <wasabi> Say what? That sarge will never be released? Because I have my doubts. ;)
[07:32] <aj> no, that it'll have to stay in experimental forever?
[07:32] <aj> KDE and Gnome didn't, after all
[07:32] <wasabi> True.
[07:32] <aj> what's the package name?
[07:32] <wasabi> eclipse. It's not there yet. I'm doing the final build of it. I'll probably get somebody to upload it tomorrow.
[07:33] <wasabi> Just wanted to know who to talk to about Hoary.
[07:33] <wasabi> I use Ubuntu, so it's more important to me that it's there vs Debian... but I will probably end up maintaining it in Debian anyways.
[07:34] <fabbione> wasabi: proposal for packages go to ubuntu-devel mailing list
[07:35] <aj> getting it fixed in experimental over a few weeks, then putting it in unstable, whether or not sarge is released; and having it appear in multiverse automagically would've been the first preference i would've thought; experimental->unstable seems likeit ought to be fairly easy at first glance
[07:35] <ajmitch_> does the current debian maintainer not have enough time for it?
[07:35] <wasabi> The current debian maintainer has orphaned it, and it's about a year and a half behind.
[07:37] <aj> tbh, i can't see much need for it to even spend more than a week in experimental
[07:37] <aj> nothing seems to depend on eclipse, anyway?
[07:37] <wasabi> eclipse provides libswt-java
[07:37] <wasabi> I am guessing a few things depend on it, all in contrib non-free
[07:37] <aj> nothing packaged
[07:40] <aj> ...that i can see anyway, don't think i missed anything though
[07:41] <wasabi> heh. my apt-cache rdepends: mmap ran out of room
[07:46] <aj> oh, actually eclipse isn't even in sarge, so uploading a new version has no effect on the release
[07:47] <aj> does the new package (libswt2.1-motif-jni or it's replacement in particular) depend on libmotif still? or is that gone completely?
[07:48] <wasabi> I'm killing it.
[07:48] <wasabi> It doesn't serve a useful purpose.
[07:49] <aj> i'd say just upload it straight to unstable, personally; then it should go straight to multiverse whenver that next gets updated too (disc: i have no idea how multiverse actually gets updated)
[08:20] <jblack> daniel: ping
[08:20] <fabbione> i think he is not around
[08:20] <fabbione> go ahead jblack
[08:20] <fabbione> what video card is in that lappy?
[08:21] <jblack> radeon mobility 7500
[08:21] <fabbione> ok..
[08:21] <fabbione> can you put the config somewhere?
[08:21] <jblack> sure.
[08:21] <fabbione> i need to grab cigarettes.... brb
[08:22] <d3vic3> mdz: ping 
[08:23] <jblack> http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~jblack/XF86Config-4
[08:23] <fabbione> re
[08:23] <fabbione> d3vic3: he is asleep
[08:23] <jblack> go smoke. :) 
[08:23] <d3vic3> mdz sleeps by day ? 
[08:23] <fabbione> i am...
[08:24] <fabbione> sometimes i allow myself for one or two cigarettes in the office
[08:24] <fabbione> d3vic3: he lives in the US. it's night there
[08:24] <jblack> its essentially a copy of the XF86Config-4 from my other laptop, for which this works
[08:24] <d3vic3> hmmm, I thought he was in UK 
[08:24] <crimsun> d3vic3: it's 2:24 AM in his timezone.
[08:24] <jblack> the idea is to get this other laptop doing dual-head, and then that xdcmp or whatever thing, to give me 4 monitors
[08:24] <d3vic3> that expalains it 
[08:25] <fabbione> jblack: ahhhh ok.. XDMX sucks btw..
[08:25] <fabbione> jblack: what is the error on in the logs?
[08:25] <jblack> oh, it does? 
[08:25] <fabbione> jblack: yeah.. it's way slow...
[08:25] <fabbione> and it tends to break the graphic on gnome...
[08:25] <fabbione> like missing icons
[08:25] <fabbione> horiz bars during refresh
[08:26] <fabbione> and i am on 100Mb FD
[08:26] <fabbione> so there is no real network limitation
[08:26] <fabbione> it can be because one machine is xorg and the other xfree
[08:26] <fabbione> but i didn't bother to test too much
[08:26] <fabbione> jblack: anyway let's make this thing work
[08:26] <fabbione> put /var/log/Xfree86.0.log somewhere i can look at it
[08:27] <jblack> oh boy. maybe I shoudln't bother, since I'm using wireless
[08:27] <fabbione> well.. let's get the dual head working anyway
[08:27] <fabbione> perhps with xorg <-> xorg it works...
[08:27] <fabbione> the mouse movement on a clean X run was ok
[08:28] <fabbione> gnome was slow.. but that's not really measurable in my environment
[08:28] <fabbione> it was way too mixed
[08:28] <jblack> http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~jblack/Xorg.0.log
[08:29] <fabbione> hmmmm
[08:29] <fabbione> jblack: than you modified the wrong config....
[08:29] <fabbione> Xorg uses xorg.conf
[08:29] <fabbione> not XF86Config-4
[08:30] <jblack> is it as simple as copying the one onto the other? 
[08:30] <fabbione> yes
[08:30] <jblack> oh, wait, the info is already there.
[08:31] <jblack> diff XF86Config-4 and xorg.conf shows no diffs
[08:32] <fabbione> jblack: if you look at the beginning of the log you can see that the ATI-2 hasn't been checked at all
[08:32] <fabbione> the Section "ServerLayout" is missing the second head part
[08:33] <fabbione> Section "ServerLayout"
[08:33] <fabbione>         Identifier      "Default Layout"
[08:33] <fabbione>         Screen          "ATI-1"
[08:33] <fabbione> ah no
[08:33] <fabbione> sorry
[08:33] <fabbione> there are a few things wrong
[08:33] <fabbione> let's start from the top
[08:33] <fabbione> Section "Screen"
[08:33] <fabbione>  Identifier"Default Screen"
[08:34] <fabbione> Device"ATI-1"
[08:34] <fabbione> change "Default Screen" to "Default Screen 1"
[08:34] <fabbione> and for ATI-2 do a similar thing
[08:34] <fabbione> to "Default Screen 2"
[08:35] <jblack> WHoops. /me forgot the serverlayout screen
[08:35] <fabbione> then.. down to the ServerLayout
[08:35] <jblack> and now it works great
[08:35] <fabbione> ehehe
[08:35] <jblack> you're like a genious or something
[08:36] <fabbione> nahh....
[08:36] <fabbione> that was easy...
[08:36] <jblack> so the question is, fix kde, or try xdmx
[08:36] <fabbione> for xdmx you need to do a lot of magic...
[08:36] <fabbione> but i can help you there
[08:37] <jblack> from the way you describe it, its not even worth it
[08:37] <fabbione> well you can still try and decide yourseld
[08:37] <fabbione> yourself
[08:37] <jblack> ok
[08:37] <fabbione> let me dig the configs
[08:37] <jblack> then lets do this
[08:38] <fabbione> install xdmx on one of the machine.. the one is going to be the "input" box
[08:38] <jblack> input box as in the extra display machine? 
[08:39] <fabbione> you have 2 machines...
[08:39] <fabbione> one is where you use the keyboard and mouse
[08:39] <fabbione> the other one is a slave
[08:39] <jblack> ok. which one is the input box? the master or the slave? 
[08:39] <fabbione> the master
[08:40] <fabbione> on the master install xdmx
[08:40] <fabbione> there is no need of xdmx on both of them
[08:40] <jblack> Ok. its installed
[08:40] <fabbione> ok
[08:40] <fabbione> now...
[08:40] <fabbione> go on the slave.. quit gdm or X
[08:40] <fabbione> and stay on console...
[08:40] <jblack> ok
[08:42] <fabbione> from the console as root run:
[08:43] <fabbione> damn.. i can't find it...
[08:43] <fabbione> hold on :-)
[08:45] <Treenaks> damn..: command not found
[08:45] <fabbione> jblack: just a sec.. i need to find the proper command to start X
[08:45] <fabbione> otherwise you will get crazy
[08:47] <fabbione> there:
[08:47] <fabbione> X -ac :1
[08:47] <fabbione> the -ac flag is to disable access control via DISPLAY=
[08:47] <fabbione> otherwise you can play with xauth
[08:48] <fabbione> but i leave that as an exercise to the user ;)
[08:48] <jblack> Ok. that started the slave up with the standard X checkerboard.
[08:48] <fabbione> and put that process in bg ones it starts properly
[08:48] <fabbione> correct
[08:48] <fabbione> now.. remember that command because you will need it on the master too
[08:49] <jblack> ok. its backgrounded. 
[08:49] <fabbione> good...
[08:50] <fabbione> let's write down the Xdmx config now
[08:50] <fabbione> in which basically you create the virtual desktop on top of the 2 real ones
[08:50] <fabbione> virtual test 4800x1200 {
[08:50] <fabbione>     display trider-g7.int.fabbione.net:1.0 1600x1200;
[08:50] <fabbione>     display gordian.int.fabbione.net:1.0 3200x1200 @1600x0;
[08:50] <fabbione> }
[08:50] <fabbione> the file contains something like that
[08:50] <jblack> into what file does that go? 
[08:50] <fabbione> it doesn't matter
[08:50] <fabbione> you will have to specify the config file to xdmx anyway
[08:51] <fabbione> so how does it work:
[08:51] <fabbione> virtual test 4800x1200
[08:51] <fabbione> is the global resolution you want
[08:51] <fabbione> that's up to your local resolutions
[08:51] <fabbione> (remember it needs to be a square)
[08:51] <jblack> One of them isn't.
[08:52] <fabbione> they need to have either the same width or the same height
[08:52] <fabbione> at least for simplicity
[08:52] <fabbione> it is possible to make more complex screen configs
[08:53] <fabbione> but i didn't dig too much into it
[08:53] <fabbione> and i am not sure the protocol is really really smart yet
[08:54] <fabbione>     display trider-g7.int.fabbione.net:1.0 1600x1200;
[08:54] <fabbione>     display gordian.int.fabbione.net:1.0 3200x1200 @1600x0;
[08:54] <fabbione> these 2 lines define the slaves
[08:54] <fabbione> note:
[08:54] <fabbione> you cannot use an IP address there
[08:54] <jblack> Lets hope it is, because on my primary, its 1920x1200 + 1200x1024
[08:55] <fabbione> for a test reduce the primary to 1920x1024 or something like that
[08:55] <fabbione> so that it will become 3120x1024
[08:55] <fabbione> just for testing is fine...
[08:55] <fabbione>     display trider-g7.int.fabbione.net:1.0 1600x1200;
[08:55] <fabbione> this is my master head... in my case
[08:56] <jblack> This isn't going to work.
[08:56] <fabbione> why not?
[08:56] <jblack> different screen sizes, no hostnames
[08:57] <fabbione> you can use /etc/hosts for that
[08:57] <fabbione> and you can set the screen to share at least one dimension
[08:59] <jblack> Not with the equipment I have. ;) 
[08:59] <fabbione> ehhe
[08:59] <jblack> not on this display. I don't have a monitor that matches the lcd
[08:59] <fabbione> ah o
[08:59] <fabbione> k
[09:00] <fabbione> well
[09:00] <fabbione> grab the config anyway
[09:00] <fabbione> so you know how to do it
[09:00] <jblack> I'm trying something else. 
[09:00] <fabbione> ok
[09:00] <jblack> on the slave machine, in my .xinitrc I put "ssh -X otherlaptop startkde" 
[09:01] <fabbione> that won't help much
[09:01] <jblack> Well, its not the same screen, so I can't move windows across or anything...
[09:01] <jblack> but I have my home dir
[09:02] <fabbione> jblack: if the point is only /home just use nfs to share it between them
[09:02] <fabbione> that's what i do here
[09:03] <doko> fabbione: any preference to but the avm isdn modules in separate binary packages, or bloat the existing packages? (size increase from 1.5mb to 4.5mb)
[09:04] <fabbione> doko: i have no preferences.. that's up to mdz.. the policy is pretty clear.. no extra kernel modules (that needs support) outside kernel and l-r-m
[09:05] <jblack> I really appreciate the help
[09:05] <fabbione> jblack: anytime
[09:08] <doko> fabbione: mdz wanted to decide us on that. I think the argument is no extra kernel modules built from other sources. I just do not want to bloat each binary driver package with 3mb stuff nobody really needs outside of .de (maybe .no, hi Mithrandir).
[09:08] <fabbione> doko: what about one -firmware package out of l-r-m ?
[09:09] <fabbione> firmwares are not compiled so there is no need for them to be versioned
[09:09] <Treenaks> fabbione: some kernels only work with some firmware versions
[09:10] <doko> linux-restricted-firmware for all kind of firmware? I think kamion won't be happy with that for the firmware he needs for the udeb's.
[09:10] <fabbione> Treenaks: some drivers require specific firmware versions, but in this case.. since they come from the same source a versioned dep would do
[09:11] <fabbione> doko: until you create the proper udebs i don't see the problem.. perhaps let's wait for Kamion to wake up?
[09:11] <fabbione> doko: actually...
[09:11] <fabbione> no
[09:11] <fabbione> this doesn't work
[09:11] <fabbione> Treenaks is partially right
[09:11] <fabbione> what if i have 3 kernels installed?
[09:12] <fabbione> that would create weird conflicts installing l-r-f
[09:13] <fabbione> i need a network cable... brb
[09:14] <doko> hmm, ok I'll have to ask if the avm firmware is dependent on the driver
[09:29] <pitti> Morning
[09:30] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:30] <pitti> fabbione: needless to say - more kernel security work is coming today...
[09:32] <fabbione> oh i hate you
[09:32] <fabbione> well send me the stuff now
[09:32] <fabbione> since i am going to upload another kernel today
[09:33] <pitti> fabbione: nothing disclosable for today, sorry
[09:33] <fabbione> I HATE YOU
[09:33] <pitti> D'uh, today's dist-upgrade fails
[09:34] <pitti> fabbione: Thanks, I'm feeling much better now
[09:34] <fabbione> pitti: :-)
[09:34] <pitti> gaim depends on gaim-data, but g-d is in universe and file-conflicts with gaim
[09:34] <pitti> so no icq today...
[09:36] <HostingGeek> I LOVE YOU fabbione 
[09:36] <fabbione> HostingGeek ?
[09:36] <HostingGeek> gaim-data is stuffed
[09:36] <d3vic3> heh
 I HATE YOU
[09:37] <HostingGeek> wtf is up with gaim-data
[09:37] <HostingGeek> why a new package?
[09:37] <fabbione> eheh
[09:38] <pitti> fabbione: ugh, now all feature patches are disabled in -5?
[09:38] <HostingGeek> wtf is up with gaim-data
[09:38] <pitti> fabbione: (#5410)
[09:38] <fabbione> pitti: yes.. i am working -6 now that will bump the abo
[09:38] <fabbione> abi
[09:39] <pitti> fabbione: why didn't mdz do that in the first place?
[09:39] <fabbione> pitti: because 2.6.10 is the default kernel and needs to be working?
[09:39] <HostingGeek> just rename -3
[09:39] <fabbione> i didn't notice the abi change
[09:39] <HostingGeek> -3 was wonderful
[09:39] <fabbione> otherwise i would have done that myself
[09:39] <HostingGeek> it wasn't b0rken
[09:40] <HostingGeek> now rename -3 as -6
[09:40] <HostingGeek> so people don't have a b0rken system
[09:40] <fabbione> HostingGeek: dude.. -5 is like -3
[09:40] <HostingGeek> but
 fabbione: ugh, now all feature patches are disabled in -5?
[09:41] <fabbione> HostingGeek: please.. read the changelogs before commenting
[09:41] <fabbione> you are completely out of topic
[09:41] <HostingGeek> wtf is up with all the b0rken packages?
[09:42] <pitti> HostingGeek: calm down, there is a reason that Hoary is a "development version"
[09:42] <Mithrandir> lamont: ack.
[09:42] <pitti> HostingGeek: if you want something reliable, use Warty
[09:42] <HostingGeek> pitti: yes but 90% of #ubuntu is using it
[09:42] <HostingGeek> pitti: now i just don't reboot....
[09:42] <fabbione> HostingGeek: than you live with what you choose...
[09:42] <HostingGeek> 8no
[09:43] <HostingGeek> arghhh
[09:43] <HostingGeek> *no
[09:55] <pitti> Hi mvo_ , hi carlos!
[09:55] <d3vic3> fabbione, ping
[09:55] <fabbione> pong
[09:55] <d3vic3> fabbione, I got that cloop-utils thing to work 
[09:55] <carlos> morning
[09:55] <HostingGeek> ok why are there NO nvu packages in debian or ubuntu
[09:55] <HostingGeek> there is a few in apt-get.org
[09:56] <fabbione> d3vic3: nice
[09:56] <d3vic3> but now, its broken for amd64, which means i can't test it properly 
[09:56] <fabbione> HostingGeek: -> #ubuntu please. this is a developer chan
[09:56] <HostingGeek> i hate it when some loser take the job of being a package maniger and does nothing for 130+ days
[09:56] <d3vic3> the bug is in amd64 
[09:57] <d3vic3> I kinda fixed it according to what mdz said, how do I go about testing it ? 
[09:57] <HostingGeek> fabbione: but this is where the package maniger would hang out and accully read the crap i say
[09:57] <d3vic3> and how do I upload the fix ? 
[09:58] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: it was broken in the beginning for amd64, due to sizeof(int) != sizeof(long)
[09:58] <fabbione> HostingGeek: wrong. we all are in #ubuntu and this is offtopic for this chan.
[09:58] <HostingGeek> fabbione: do all you read the ALL the stuff said in 
[09:58] <fabbione> d3vic3: you need to test it first... 
[09:58] <d3vic3> Mithrandir, yeah I know that
[09:58] <HostingGeek> #ubuntu
[09:58] <d3vic3> fabbione, build and install it ? 
[09:59] <d3vic3> on i386 it works 
[09:59] <fabbione> d3vic3: on amd64
[09:59] <Mithrandir> HostingGeek: no, but if people abuse #ubuntu-devel, we will have to ignore you, which means we lose anything you say which is not crap.  (To use your own words)
[10:00] <HostingGeek> i say stuff not crap
[10:00] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: your stuff maybe other people's crap, in some contexts
[10:00] <Mithrandir> 09:57 < HostingGeek> fabbione: but this is where the package maniger would hang out and accully read the crap i say
[10:00] <HostingGeek> then join #ubuntu-ontopic where i can say the "stuff" and you guys will still see
[10:00] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: that's #ubuntu
[10:01] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: no but #ubuntu-ontopic can be for stuff that you guy must read and this is #ubuntu-offtopic talk here
[10:01] <smurfix> HostingGeek: Besides, among ubuntu developers, "crap" is a technical term with well-defined meaning. Ask anybody who's been in Mataro. ;-)
[10:02] <Treenaks> smurfix: just like "crack" :P
[10:02] <HostingGeek> what does it mean?
[10:03] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/
[10:03] <mvo_> hi pitti 
[10:03] <Mithrandir> hi mvo
[10:03] <mvo_> hi Mithrandir 
[10:03] <mvo_> I saw that there was some discussion about the hook-idea while I was sleeping :)
[10:03] <Mithrandir> yeah
[10:06] <HostingGeek> wtf is http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/
[10:06] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: it's a link. paste it in your web browser.
[10:06] <Mithrandir> HostingGeek: the jargon file, a collection of terms and their meanings.
[10:06] <HostingGeek> yes how to use it
[10:07] <HostingGeek> the search page look like crap
[10:07] <HostingGeek> ohh wait now i know what crap means
[10:08] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: funny meaning i alway thought it was a nicer word for poo
[10:13] <d3vic3> fabbione, I modified one file to fix the bug 
[10:14] <d3vic3> i used diff -u to get the changes 
[10:14] <fabbione> d3vic3: yes.. i understand that.. you still need to get it properly tested on amd64
[10:14] <d3vic3> now I can just pipe that to a file and attach it to the bug ? 
[10:14] <d3vic3> I know 
[10:14] <d3vic3> I sent e-mail to mdz 
[10:14] <fabbione> d3vic3: yes you can do that too
[10:14] <fabbione> or ask Mithrandir to test it for you?
[10:14] <fabbione> or somebody with an amd64?
[10:14] <d3vic3> and waiting to see if we have a test machine lying around 
[10:15] <fabbione> i have none.. so i can't help there
[10:15] <d3vic3> hmmm 
[10:15] <d3vic3> ok 
[10:15] <d3vic3> thanx, you are helpfull, jblack was right 
[10:15] <d3vic3> he he he 
[10:16] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: I can test the patch, sure.
[10:16] <fabbione> see :-)
[10:16] <fabbione> d3vic3: generally i suggest you to ask everybody around and not just me
[10:16] <fabbione> that will speed up stuff. trust me
[10:16] <d3vic3> lol 
[10:17] <fabbione> specially when i go in deep insane kernel mode
[10:17] <d3vic3> yeah 
[10:17] <fabbione> ;)
[10:17] <d3vic3> ok 
[10:17] <d3vic3> :-/
[10:17] <d3vic3> i don't know most ppl here 
[10:17] <d3vic3> especially who does what 
[10:17] <d3vic3> :-| 
[10:17] <fabbione> d3vic3: that's why... keep it generic
[10:17] <Treenaks> d3vic3: stay for a while and read, you'll figure it out :)
[10:17] <fabbione> and people will answer if they can help
[10:18] <d3vic3> true 
[10:18] <Treenaks> d3vic3: also read the -devel mailing list
[10:18] <fabbione> d3vic3: otherwise a fast turn around...
[10:18] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: then don't address anybody in particular and say interesting things and you'll get a response. ;P
[10:18] <fabbione> d3vic3: Treenaks and daniels are our bitches... :P
[10:18] <d3vic3> bitches? 
[10:18] <fabbione> Mithrandir is our amd64 god
[10:18] <fabbione> d3vic3: just kidding ;)
[10:18] <d3vic3> he he 
[10:18] <fabbione> daniels is our Xorg bitch^Wkid
[10:19] <Mithrandir> fabbione: amd64 czar :)
[10:19] <fabbione> i am the kernel boy.. but if the kernel doesn't work for some reasons you can either blame GTK (Seb128) or your broken hardware
[10:20] <fabbione> seb128 is our gnome guru
[10:20] <Treenaks> fabbione: guru^Wscapegoat
[10:20] <fabbione> thom 'i love to slice my fingers' bot: *mozilla*
[10:21] <fabbione> elmo is our ftp-master and main sysadmin
[10:21] <fabbione> meaning that if he dies we are fucked
[10:21] <fabbione> rason why he lives closed in a bunker 200 meters deep in the ground under a glass bell
[10:21] <fabbione> and nobody have ever seen him
[10:22] <fabbione> rumors says he has like 6 heads and 12 arms...
[10:22] <fabbione> (just for the amount of works he does)
[10:22] <Treenaks> fabbione: hm, I thought that was lamont 
[10:22] <fabbione> oh lamont.. he handles the buildd
[10:22] <d3vic3> ok 
[10:22] <fabbione> without him no binary packages
[10:22] <Treenaks> "build daemon wrangler"?
[10:22] <fabbione> same story as elmo
[10:22] <d3vic3> can anyone help me make a patch tar gz ? 
[10:22] <d3vic3> to send to someone 
[10:23] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: no need to tar it up, just diff -Nru old-tree new-tree > patchfile
[10:23] <Mithrandir> then read through the patch and make sure it's what you expect
[10:24] <fabbione> d3vic3
[10:24] <fabbione> and pitti is our 'derootificator' security guy
[10:24] <fabbione> did i miss anybody?
[10:24] <HostingGeek> i am our lame guru
[10:26] <Treenaks> fabbione: jdub and mako?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> fabbione: mjg59, haggai at least?
[10:26] <fabbione> and mdz
[10:27] <fabbione> ok ok.. this is radio ubuntu-devel live from DK
[10:27] <Mithrandir> and Kamion
[10:27] <fabbione> dj fabbione on the console mixing for you the UD tasks
[10:27] <Treenaks> kamion is the installer guru
[10:27] <fabbione> *rriiiiing*
[10:27] <fabbione> *rriiiiing*
[10:27] <fabbione> hey we have aphone call for our first interactive show on UD's
[10:28] <fabbione> and let's give voice to Treenaks 
[10:28] <fabbione> Treenaks: hey dude...
[10:28] <Treenaks> fabbione: hm?
[10:28] <fabbione> Treenaks: so we have a few missing description in our pitcure...
[10:28] <fabbione> Treenaks: complete the picture to win your fabolous new kernel version 2.6.10-6!
[10:29] <Treenaks> Oh wow!
[10:29] <fabbione> Treenaks: soooo....
[10:29] <fabbione> Treenaks: come on... don't be shy..
[10:29] <Mithrandir> I think we forgot amu and mvo_ as well, didn't we?  And Keybuk, though he's not distro team, he does maintain some important packages.
[10:29] <d3vic3> does diff take note of new files ? 
[10:30] <fabbione> d3vic3: yes
[10:30] <Treenaks> fabbione: hmm?
[10:30] <fabbione> ok we have lost Treenaks 
[10:30] <fabbione> Treenaks: sorry you lose
[10:30] <Treenaks> fabbione: I want 2.6.10-6!
[10:30] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: with -N, it does.
[10:30] <fabbione> Treenaks: keep going with the descriptions for d3vic3 :-)
[10:31] <Treenaks> d3vic3 is our resident noob for today :P
[10:31] <fabbione> d3vic3: diff -Narud old-tree new-tree > patch
[10:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I'm semi-distro team
[10:31] <Keybuk> "I'm complicated" :p
[10:31] <fabbione> Treenaks: kinda :-)
[10:31] <d3vic3> Treenaks, eish
[10:31] <Treenaks> d3vic3: you just said so yourself :P
[10:31] <Treenaks> 10:25  * d3vic3 the newbie guru 
[10:32] <d3vic3> Mithrandir, can I send you diff's output then ? 
[10:32] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: put it online somewhere and I'll download it.
[10:32] <d3vic3> Treenaks, i know 
[10:32] <d3vic3> erm 
[10:32] <d3vic3> don't have anyware to put it 
[10:32] <Mithrandir> I don't run any email client at home atm.  (And I'm not at home, but that's kinda besides the point.)
[10:32] <Mithrandir> sure you do, you have an account on rookery, don't you?
[10:32] <d3vic3> nope
[10:33] <Mithrandir> huh, why not?
[10:33] <d3vic3> rookery ? 
[10:33] <Mithrandir> aka people.ubuntu.com
[10:33] <Keybuk> you have an account on chinstrap?
[10:33] <d3vic3> nope 
[10:41] <mjt> is it "just me", or is there really no mention of pam_limits in pam.d/login ??
[10:42] <HostingGeek> *riiiiiiiing*
[10:42] <HostingGeek> *riiiiiiiing*
[10:42] <mjt> (or, rather, it's commented out)
[10:46] <HostingGeek> Green [ ok ]  messages? why not apply this patch by default like all other distros have?
[10:46] <HostingGeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=8556
[10:48] <fabbione> HostingGeek: offtopic here
[10:48] <fabbione> it has been discussed on the mailing list iirc
[10:48] <HostingGeek> how is it offtopic
[10:49] <HostingGeek> its offtopic in #ubuntu-offtopic 
[10:49] <fabbione> because it is a communityu decision done by all users
[10:49] <fabbione> therefor discussed between all of them
[10:49] <fabbione> and the verdic was something like: no thanks
[10:50] <fabbione> for different reasons
[10:50] <mjt> "quiet" graphical boot, green/red messages.. and a cup of coffee every morning pls. ugh.
[10:52] <HostingGeek> link
[10:53] <HostingGeek> i need to join more mailing lists
[10:53] <Keybuk> fundamantally, colour should only be used to highlight problems
[10:53] <Keybuk> in particular, that's a very silly patch -- the green and red are of the same intensity, so a colour blind person wouldn't see any difference
[10:53] <Keybuk> by using red for fail, they stand out in the otherwise black/white boot sequence
[10:54] <Treenaks> make it BLINK
[10:54] <Treenaks> that's stand out for sure!
[10:55] <Keybuk> it'll be colour prompts next
[10:55] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Ubuntu needs more gentoo influence :P
[10:56] <Keybuk> we had gentoo influence for warty
[10:56] <bob2> next you'll all be madly trying to get the boot time down to < 30 seconds
[10:56] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: no make it explode
[10:56] <HostingGeek> bob2: 0_0
[10:57] <Keybuk> bob2: except that's actually quite a useful thing to do
[10:57] <fabbione> given that the patch to delay mount of root of 10 secs will not go kernel upstream
[10:58] <mjt> delay mount??
[10:58] <fabbione> yes
[10:58] <fabbione> for some cases that will be required
[10:58] <Keybuk> scsi cards to settle?
[10:58] <HostingGeek> why the hell will you want to do that
[10:58] <fabbione> basically the kernel will sleep 10 secs
[10:59] <mjt> there's a patch for 2.4 (taken from Owl) 
[10:59] <HostingGeek> because there is no sprate root partion by default
[10:59] <mjt> but it does not sleeps, but retries mounting root
[10:59] <mjt> to allow eg usb cd-rom to initialize
[10:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: because of some booting methods that are not "syncable" like from usb
[10:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: during boot the usb stick is seen as a floppy
[10:59] <HostingGeek> haha my friend says his win xp takes 10min to boot
[10:59] <fabbione> while it changes is status after it gets probed correctly
[11:00] <mjt> while(mount() != 0) { sleep(); } it is, sort of
[11:00] <Keybuk> that's a hell of a penalty for normal people though
[11:00] <fabbione> Keybuk: well that's why they are still discussing it
[11:00] <Keybuk> given how many times the average kernel developer reboots, I can't quite see that one making it in :p
[11:00] <Treenaks> how about a "sleep 10&& exit".ko
[11:00] <fabbione> Keybuk: you will be surprised how often they do NOT reboor
[11:00] <fabbione> reboot
[11:01] <Keybuk> isn't the initrd the right place to do that though?
[11:01] <bob2> 'it compiles, ship it'
[11:01] <fabbione> Keybuk: not necessarely.. not all kernels boot with initrd
[11:02] <fabbione> it's a feature.. it is not mandatory
[11:02] <Keybuk> too much stuff is a feature these days :)
[11:02] <Keybuk> more mandatory, damnit
[11:03] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: lol
[11:04] <Mithrandir> uhm, did the ftp server which handles uploads just die?
[11:04] <mjt> so, is it intentional pam.d/login does not include pam_limits?
[11:05] <Keybuk> mjt: should it?
[11:05] <mjt> at least it isn't consistent with all other ways to login
[11:05] <Keybuk> hmm?
[11:05] <Keybuk> only gdm has it
[11:05] <mjt> ssh, xdm, ... -- all "calls" to pam_limits
[11:06] <Keybuk> it could/should be in common-session if it's common
[11:06] <mjt> well.. yes and no
[11:06] <mjt> more for "yes" than for 'no' ;)
[11:07] <mjt> cron also does not list it -- the only real reason cron was "pamified"
[11:07] <Keybuk> it's probably that people bugged the wrong people, and made the Debian ssh/gdm maintainers add it -- rather than bugging the pam maintainer
[11:08] <mjt> and now there's another question: pam_limits, if no limit is given, set it to unlimited.
[11:08] <mjt> i think this isn't right
[11:08] <mjt> at least `unlimited' should not be the default for everyhing
[11:09] <mjt> (so, loging on my system (without pam_limit) behaves "better" than ssh with pam_limit0
[11:09] <mjt> s/0/)/
[11:09] <mjt> s/loging/login/ bah
[11:10] <Keybuk> no idea, it's not something I know much about
[11:10] <Keybuk> pam scares me
[11:11] <mjt> i was trying to debug why the hell i have eg max_locked_memory=unlimited while limits.conf does not mention the limit, and kernel sets it to 32k..  pam_limits was the problem
[11:11] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: pam is good for you
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: Hi!
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: do you know what messed up gaim?
[11:22] <seb128> hello
[11:22] <seb128> how messed ?
[11:22] <seb128> the file conflict ?
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: gaim depends on gaim-data
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: g-d is in universe and file-conflicts with aim
[11:22] <pitti> s/aim/gaim/
[11:22] <seb128> ?
[11:23] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, I'm handling that bug.
[11:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, thanks
[11:23] <seb128> $ dpkg -l gaim\* | grep ^ii
[11:23] <seb128> ii  gaim           1.1.1-2ubuntu1 multi-protocol instant messaging client
[11:23] <seb128> ii  gaim-data      1.1.1-2ubuntu1 multi-protocol instant messaging client - da
[11:23] <HostingGeek> but it insatlled for me
[11:23] <HostingGeek> its working for me
[11:23] <HostingGeek> 'i do not lie
[11:23] <Mithrandir> HostingGeek: depends on install order.  gaim, gaim-data works, gaim-data, gaim doesn't
[11:23] <pitti> Package: gaim-data
[11:23] <pitti> Priority: optional
[11:23] <pitti> Section: universe/net
[11:23] <pitti>         ^^^^^^
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: yeah, it has not been seeded probably
[11:24] <Mithrandir> pittit: it's an instance of the "universe by default" thing; I'll ask elmo to change that.
[11:24] <HostingGeek> Mithrandir: but apt-get -f install fixes it
[11:24] <Mithrandir> HostingGeek: it's still a bug.
[11:24] <Mithrandir> actually, since gaim depends on gaim-data, shouldn't that be fixed automatically?
[11:24] <HostingGeek> Its Not A Bug Its A Feature(tm)
[11:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, this requires a manual step
[11:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: germinate will mark it as "needs to be in main"
[11:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: but AFAIK somebody has to actually put it there
[11:25] <HostingGeek> gaim installed with out gaim-data for me
[11:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok.
[11:26] <HostingGeek> and gaim gave me errors of file x not found....
[11:27] <bob2> HostingGeek: please dude
[11:27] <fabbione> HostingGeek: this is a developer channel (again)
[11:27] <fabbione> please move this stuff to #ubuntu
[11:28] <Kamion> HostingGeek: Mithrandir is the person who uploaded the current version of gaim to Ubuntu. It's he who gets to say that something is a feature not a bug.
[11:29] <fabbione> hey Kamion
[11:30] <fabbione> Kamion: lamont/mdz were asking to get the live cd rebuilt today with linux-source 2.6.10-5
[11:30] <fabbione> (or atleast be sure that it is)
[11:30] <fabbione> -4 was BAD
[11:30] <fabbione> and if you can ping me when you have done so i can upload -6
[11:30] <Kamion> fabbione: well, it was cronned
[11:30] <Kamion> let me see what the current version built with
[11:32] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, but mdz uploaded -5 and we are not sure it made it on all arches
[11:32] <Kamion> powerpc didn't build at all
[11:32] <fabbione> mostlikely it didn't
[11:33] <Kamion> amd64 built with udebs from -5 and debs in the live filesystem from -4
[11:33] <Kamion> i386 built with udebs from -5 and debs in the live filesystem from -3
[11:33] <Mithrandir> hi Simira 
[11:33] <Simira> mornin
[11:34] <elmo> ftp daemon's back
[11:34] <Kamion> the current live fs build on amd64 failed because ubuntu-desktop was uninstallable
[11:34] <Kamion> ditto i386 (gaim, totem-gstreamer)
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not sure what the live fs is. but i don't think it is related to the kernel... right?
[11:35] <trukulo> hi
[11:35] <trukulo> Mithrandir: r u awake?
[11:35] <fabbione> hi trukulo 
[11:35] <Kamion> fabbione: it has the kernel and modules unpacked inside it
[11:35] <trukulo> hi fabbio
[11:35] <Treenaks> trukulo: I think he's sleep-ircing :P
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: hmm true...
[11:35] <trukulo> coming to talk about videos
[11:35] <Mithrandir> trukulo: yes, I'm here.
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: -4 is bad...
[11:35] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: no he is not
[11:35] <trukulo> Treenaks: ups, seems he is awake :)
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: is there anything we can do to either bump it to -5 or back to -3 ?
[11:35] <trukulo> Mithrandir: how about uploading of the files?
[11:36] <Kamion> the powerpc build failed because I suck
[11:36] <Mithrandir> the only one who knows if I'm sleep-irc-ing would be Simira, since she's in the same room as me. :P
[11:36] <fabbione> Kamion: come on.. you don't suck as much as i do :P
[11:36] <HostingGeek> -Mithrandir- TIME Tue Jan 11 11:35:56 2005 <<< now who will be sleep ircing at this hour?
[11:36] <Kamion> fabbione: well, i386 is fine, and the amd64 live CD is very very new; let's leave it and just fix powerpc
[11:37] <Mithrandir> trukulo:yay, one of the files is complete now.
[11:37] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.
[11:37] <trukulo> ok, so we can publish the file on web, isn't it?
[11:37] <trukulo> if you tell me link, i'll made a web in badopi for this
[11:38] <Mithrandir> trukulo: just a sec.
[11:38] <trukulo> ok
[11:39] <Mithrandir> trukulo: the mako_small is live! :)
[11:39] <Mithrandir> http://tracker.err.no/mako_small.avi.torrent
[11:39] <bob2> so waryt's multiverse contains a ton of dodgy stuff.  but no mplayer?
[11:39] <Kamion> fabbione: lamont is the person who builds the live filesystems, and he's probably asleep
[11:39] <Kamion> bob2: IIRC that got fixed very shortly after warty
[11:40] <trukulo> ok
[11:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have the build-live-cd script if you want me to test anything.
[11:40] <bob2> Kamion: so it'll be in hoary or it should be there for warty on archive.u.c?
[11:40] <trukulo> error on connect
[11:40] <Kamion> mplayer-custom is there on i386, but nothing else
[11:40] <Kamion> bob2: hoary
[11:40] <trukulo> sorry
[11:40] <Kamion> mplayer-386 | 1:1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu3 | hoary/multiverse | i386
[11:40] <trukulo> my fault
[11:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: nah, it's more new official builds that cdimage will pick up
[11:40] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: and the other torrents? :)
[11:40] <trukulo> ok, downloading
[11:41] <Mithrandir> trukulo: I can see that.. ~210Kbyte/sec uploading now.
[11:41] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: that's me :)
[11:41] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I'm getting them.  Sloooowly.
[11:41] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: ok :)
[11:41] <Treenaks> | dl speed: 208.3 KB/s                                                         |
[11:42] <HostingGeek> OMG is that a ubuntu cd in today vedio clip of Bill Gates speaking at CES
[11:42] <bob2> Kamion: yeah, all the weird hanging Suggests were confusing me, thanks
[11:42] <trukulo> Mithrandir: as fast as we can here
[11:42] <Mithrandir> trukulo: yeah, but it's still slow. :P
[11:42] <HostingGeek> i am sure that says ubuntu
[11:42] <HostingGeek> OOOPS
[11:42] <HostingGeek> wrong channel
[11:42] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. we can live with it for today i guess
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: lamont will build the new livefs with -6
[11:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: are the torrents up?
[11:43] <fabbione> oh yeah i see :-)
[11:43] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, but I don't have seeds for any other than mako_small yet. :/
[11:44] <fabbione> ah ok
[11:44] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: can't you just get the .torrent from trukulo and make him seed?
[11:44] <fabbione> i will wait than
[11:44] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: then wait until the downloaders become seeds
[11:44] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: that's basically what we're doing, except that he's uploading to me first.
[11:44] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm building new CDs to get powerpc
[11:45] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. take your time
[11:45] <fabbione> i am not in a hurry to upload
[11:46] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: Now with an IPv6-enabled peer! :P
[11:46] <trukulo> Treenaks: i don't have the files
[11:46] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: bah, I should have beaten you to that. :P  the tracker isn't ipv6 enabled, but I have boxes here with ipv6 native.
[11:47] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: hm, I'm using a tunnel.. but behind the tunnel endpoint is a native IPv6 wifi net :)
[11:47] <trukulo> http://www.badopi.org/videos
[11:48] <Mithrandir> trukulo: I have native, routed IPv6 on the box where I'm irc-ing off.
[11:49] <trukulo> you mean Treenaks 
[11:49] <Mithrandir> yes, I did
[11:49] <Mithrandir> trukulo: nice with that page -- probably add a comment that we'll be adding more as fast as they become available?
[11:51] <fabbione> WOW
[11:51] <fabbione> i am impressed.
[11:51] <fabbione> warty (fresh install) -> hoary 
[11:51] <fabbione> there is only 1 package that is not upgraded
[11:54] <trukulo> ups, i said on spanish, but not in english
[11:54] <trukulo> editing
[11:54] <Kamion> mdz: ok, daily-live/20050111.1 now has udeb/livefs kernel versions of: amd64 -5/-4, i386 -5/-3, powerpc -5/-3; so that should give you working i386 and powerpc at least
[11:55] <Mithrandir> trukulo: my spanish is _really_ bad, so I wouldn't notice. :)
[11:55] <trukulo> fixed
[11:56] <trukulo> correct my HORRIBLE english
[11:58] <Kamion> fabbione: go ahead with -6
[11:59] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks. i will when i am ready :-)
[11:59] <fabbione> told you that there was no rush :-)
[12:08] <robtaylor> carlos: alive?
[12:09] <carlos> robtaylor: hey!
[12:09] <carlos> morning
[12:09] <robtaylor> carlos: morning :)
[12:09] <robtaylor> carlos: did you get chance to check out the accessd code yet?
[12:10] <carlos> robtaylor: not yet :-(
[12:10] <robtaylor> carlos: !
[12:11] <robtaylor> carlos: i think i'm going to do some glib binding examples, check over the consistency of method naming, do some basic documentation and put to gether a 0.1 release 
[12:13] <carlos> robtaylor: I need to setup for you an sftp account
[12:13] <carlos> the webdav method is not working atm for me
[12:13] <carlos> please if I don't give you it before this weekend, poke me
[12:13] <robtaylor> carlos: ok :)
[12:14] <robtaylor> it'll take a little while to update the documentation, but just to let you know i want to make a move on this, as its starting to look needed..
[12:14] <robtaylor> :)
[12:15] <carlos> robtaylor: I suppose you are following the libgnomesudo discussion, right?
[12:16] <robtaylor> carlos: nope! where?
[12:16] <robtaylor> gnome-devel?
[12:17] <carlos> Desktop Devel <desktop-devel-list@gnome.org>
[12:17] <carlos> "GNOME System Monitor will use libgnomesu"
[12:22] <robtaylor> hmm, i guess one of us should post :)
[12:24] <robtaylor> carlos: one thing i've been thinking about is what namespace to use for the capability request string..
[12:25] <robtaylor> I think in the examples I'll use  dbus namespace style and then see if people follow my lead. But i was also thinking maybe about using RDF
[12:25] <carlos> robtaylor: why do we need namespaces?
[12:25] <carlos> system.config
[12:25] <carlos> system.burn
[12:25] <carlos> system.open
[12:26] <carlos> etc..
[12:26] <carlos> robtaylor: /join #accessd
[12:26] <carlos> this is offtopic here
[12:28] <robtaylor> sjoerd: if your interested, you know where we'll be :)
[12:28] <pitti> carlos: sudo dpkg -i language-pack-de_20050111_all.deb
[12:28] <pitti> carlos: ^ this works now :-)
[12:29] <pitti> carlos: I can now generate base language pack debs fully automatically
[12:29] <carlos> cool
[12:29] <pitti> carlos: now I'm working on the -update debs
[12:29] <pitti> carlos: what's the status of rosetta?
[12:30] <carlos> pitti: seems to be working again
[12:30] <pitti> carlos: no, I mean the Hoary import
[12:30] <carlos> pitti: today we are going to do an import of about 100 packages
[12:30] <pitti> cool
[12:31] <pitti> carlos: I still need some time anyway; the update debs are much trickier
[12:32] <pitti> elmo: here?
[12:32] <elmo> yes
[12:32] <carlos> pitti: we have today a Rosetta meeting about our future goals so I think we could give you an schedule for your needs
[12:32] <pitti> elmo: I'm currently thinking about how to package the language pack update debs
[12:33] <pitti> elmo: would it be possible/wise to accept binary deb uploads for these?
[12:33] <elmo> no?
[12:33] <pitti> elmo: if only source package uploads are accepted, then I have to generate a souce package for each supported locale
[12:33] <pitti> elmo: if we only upload debs, then one source package (which spits out several debs) would be enough and much easier
[12:34] <pitti> elmo: ^ because only a few languages will need updating every day, not all
[12:35] <elmo> hang on, what was the eventual resolution of the BOF?  
[12:35] <elmo> because it sounds like we've de-evolved back to square one
[12:35] <pitti> elmo: we provide language-pack-$LOCALE packages at the release time (and every now and then)
[12:35] <pitti> elmo: and provide language-pack-$LOCALE-update every day
[12:35] <elmo> WHAT?
[12:35] <pitti> elmo: the latter packages are going to be tiny
[12:35] <pitti> elmo: that was the resolution of the BOF
[12:36] <pitti> elmo: that's why I want to avoid uploading new debs daily if their language did not change at that day
[12:36] <Kamion> huh, I have to implement accept_types and reject_types in cdebconf and make sure the stack driver works before I can move the password questions to the first stage
[12:36] <elmo> then split the source package?
[12:37] <pitti> elmo: okay, then I don't generate the debs in the source package on the fly, but I generate the source packages itself automatically
[12:37] <elmo> because, I'm not going to start randomly rewriting the debian packaging rule book to override such basics as "each binary must have an associated source package" and "when you rebuild the source package you get this (and possibly other) binary/ies"
[12:38] <pitti> okay
[12:38] <azeem> elmo: so just write a new one
[12:39] <Mithrandir> elmo: would you care to update the override file for hoary and add gaim-data to main (it's a dependency of gaim)?
[12:39] <Mithrandir> if you're getting reminders about such stuff automatically, please tell me and I'll shut up :)
[12:41] <elmo> pitti: hang on, what happens to these -update packages?  are they cumulative?
[12:41] <pitti> elmo: yes, relative to the latest -base package
[12:41] <pitti> elmo: otherwise you would accumulate lots and lots of -update packages
[12:41] <pitti> elmo: so you will only ever have the base and one -update package installed
[12:42] <pitti> elmo: as soon as the -update packages get too big, we can release a new base at any time
[12:42] <pitti> elmo: however, in the BOF it was believed that the updates are very small
[12:47] <sabdfl> elmo, kamion: do you think we need to handle byhand uploads?
[12:48] <Keybuk> is there anything byhand left?
[12:48] <sabdfl> some html files we can see
[12:48] <elmo> debian-installer uploads are BYHAND
[12:48] <elmo> so, err, yeah, I do
[12:49] <thom> lamont: ping? (in massive hope)
[12:49] <sabdfl> which bits are byhand?
[12:49] <elmo> sabdfl: everything that goes under installer-$ARCH?  
[12:49] <sabdfl> if we will be building the cd images centrally, surely those can just be tracked directly and published by lucille?
[12:50] <sabdfl> kinnison is saying that the only byhand files he sees are html files
[12:50] <elmo> kinnison isn't looking very hard then
[12:50] <sabdfl> ok
[12:51] <elmo> BYHAND isn't used by very much, certainly, the only non-d-i thing these days is probably doc-debian ("the html files"), but the d-i case definitely needsw to be handled.. and if you want to special case it, sure
[12:51] <elmo> it's not just cd image stuff, it's netboot stuff and some other stuff 
[12:52] <elmo> usb stick image media etc.
[12:52] <sabdfl> ok, kamion and kinnison will discuss further thursday
[12:53] <Kamion> elmo: what do you think of calling it byhand-installer or something, to allow the automation to work on something other than "oh, er, yeah, this looks a bit like a d-i tarball"
[12:54] <elmo> yeah, that'd be a good idea
[12:54] <sabdfl> do the byhand files go into predictable places?
[12:54] <elmo> sabdfl: for d-i, yes
[12:54] <Kamion> depends on the byhand
[12:54] <elmo> the whole point of byhand tho, is to allow people to do arbitrary things
[12:54] <Kamion> basically each byhand is "ftpmaster, please do something you think might be sensible with this"; but each *instance* of byhand has its own fairly predictable rules
[12:55] <sabdfl> i'm just trying to establish the set of typical rules
[12:55] <Keybuk> can we have dpkg.tar.gz again? :p *ducks*
[12:55] <Kamion> there aren't really any typical rules
[12:55] <sabdfl> run away...
[12:55] <elmo> Keybuk: I actually think we should :P, esp. if it were automated
[12:55] <elmo> it was nicer than trying to explain to people about ar and tar to extract debs
[12:56] <Kamion> elmo: what would happen at the moment if I did 'dpkg-distaddfile $(TARNAME) installer -' rather than 'byhand -'? I assume it'd get rejected?
[12:56] <Kamion> at which point they aren't byhand any more so the byhand- should be removed :)
[12:56] <elmo> Kamion: dunno.. feel free to try it, if they get rejected, I'll sort katie out to handle them
[12:56] <sabdfl> ok, i think that's a consensus
[12:57] <sabdfl> if we find an example of stuff that needs special processing, we'll figure out to handle it then
[12:57] <elmo> err, well, if you're going to do that, I wouldn't call it byhand
[12:57] <sabdfl> precisely ;-)
[12:57] <Kamion> hm, dpkg-distaddfile documents its second argument as the section
[12:57] <Kamion> so I presume there are just magic section special-cases
[12:58] <elmo> yes
[12:59] <Kamion> ok, I'll dive back into cdebconf then :)
[12:59] <sabdfl> thanks
[12:59] <Mithrandir> possibly make the section special/installer or something?
[12:59] <Mithrandir> so it's actually shown that it's special and not just magic.
[12:59] <sabdfl> good idea
[01:00] <elmo> special's a slightly loaded term tho ;P
[01:00] <elmo> non-deb/installer?  anyway, whatever, let me know what you use and i'll update katie to cope
[01:00] <Keybuk> bling, crack, special ... we need a bigger dictionary
[01:01] <Kamion> might as well agree it now
[01:01] <sabdfl> thpecial...
[01:01] <HostingGeek> anyplans on having something like gdeb in hoary that will auto download all dependces
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: pwgen? ;P
[01:01] <Kamion> HostingGeek: welcome to apt
[01:01] <HostingGeek> lol
[01:02] <HostingGeek> Kamion: no there are some apps that people download that are in deb format that are not inside a apt rep.
[01:02] <Kamion> HostingGeek: the people providing those should simply create an apt repository; it's not hard
[01:03] <Kamion> failing that you can create one yourself with apt-ftparchive
[01:03] <HostingGeek> yes
[01:04] <HostingGeek> but n00bs that download a program like amsn from the site are going to say why the hell am i getting these errors
[01:04] <Keybuk> that kind of thing scares me
[01:05] <elmo> well amsn is in universe for a start
[01:05] <HostingGeek> its a needed feature
[01:05] <Kamion> the code to retrieve dependencies is in apt; that's where it belongs. if you want to write something that creates a small apt repository and feeds it to apt to install a given package, feel free
[01:05] <Keybuk> "click here to download something and run it as root" ... "no, don't check it first"
[01:05] <Kamion> no, it's really not a needed feature, that's why we have universe/multiverse :)
[01:05] <Kamion> and a billion random apt repositories all over the planet
[01:05] <HostingGeek> there are sites that do make debs for a program that are not in the rep
[01:06] <Kamion> elmo: how about raw/installer?
[01:06] <elmo> Kamion: sure
[01:06] <HostingGeek> i know when i was a n00b and started learning howto program some IDIOT refered me to gambas and there was a deb on the siteand there was none in the rep till like version 0.9x
[01:08] <HostingGeek> my brain is still herting from what that idiot refered me to
[01:08] <Kamion> elmo: ok, I'll make the next non-urgent installer upload use that, then
[01:08] <elmo> oh, wait
[01:09] <elmo> that'll be broken down to component: raw, section: installer
[01:09] <Kamion> raw-installer then?
[01:09] <elmo> yes, please
[01:09] <Kamion> would be nice to document the precise upload format expected for all known raw subtypes
[01:10] <elmo> document where?
[01:10] <Kamion> no idea :)
[01:10] <HostingGeek> Kamion: look it will be a nice feature to have
[01:10] <HostingGeek> it will make life easier
[01:11] <HostingGeek> maybe the app should use apt-ftparchive to do this
[01:11] <Kamion> if you're on #ubuntu-devel you are implicitly signalling a willingness to do development, so well volunteered ;)
[01:12] <HostingGeek> and as a lot of people are not use to the idea of package maniger and still use to the idea that redhat and winbloze put in there head installers
[01:13] <HostingGeek> this will make the deb format into a basic installer as well as be a package maniger format
[01:13] <HostingGeek> Kamion: hmm maybe i will
[01:13] <Kamion> it's just wrong to encourage people to download and install unsigned stuff as root, though; there's a reason we're doing signed apt repositories for hoary
[01:14] <HostingGeek> dah
[01:14] <HostingGeek> thats why it should use apt-ftparchive
[01:14] <Kamion> errr, no, you've already downloaded an unsigned deb
[01:15] <HostingGeek> no no one said that deb is unsigned
[01:15] <Kamion> it is
[01:15] <Kamion> signatures live at a higher layer, not in each individual package
[01:15] <HostingGeek> Kamion: well the deb on amsn site and in the rep are the same deb
[01:16] <Kamion> I rather doubt that, we rebuild all packages from source
[01:16] <HostingGeek> Kamion: why not in each package
[01:16] <Kamion> it cannot possibly be bitwise-identical unless they took the deb from us (which seems unlikely)
[01:16] <HostingGeek> i see i misunderstood this apt 0.6 feature
[01:17] <HostingGeek> so who will the end user install a app from somewhere like... mallarat
[01:17] <HostingGeek> *typo*
[01:18] <Kamion> third-party repository administrators should just sign their repositories. it's not hard.
[01:18] <mvo_> not hard at all :)
[01:18] <HostingGeek> Kamion: btw can we include more apps in universe
[01:18] <Kamion> (then you have trust path issues etc., but at least it's *possible*)
[01:18] <HostingGeek> Kamion: well they don't as debian isn't using apt 0.6 yet
[01:19] <thom> pitti: yeah, ETA is goodness
[01:19] <Kamion> universe> that's sort of what universe is for
[01:19] <Kamion> HostingGeek: you can verify repository signatures without apt 0.6; apt 0.6 just makes it more convenient
[01:19] <HostingGeek> Kamion: there is about 50 apps or so all of us want that are in unoffical reps like nvu
[01:19] <pitti> thom: I still need to get a passport, but good to know that at least the visa is a near non-issue
[01:19] <HostingGeek> Kamion: intresting
[01:20] <Kamion> in any case this still doesn't belong on #ubuntu-devel without code to back it up :)
[01:21] <HostingGeek> while(HostingGeek talk() Kamion answer == 1)
[01:21] <HostingGeek> is that good enough?
[01:21] <HostingGeek> if i find a deb for nvu can you guys test it out and include it in universe?
[01:31] <amu> moins 
[01:33] <fabbione> Kamion: does udeb support bzip2?
[01:33] <fabbione> the format i mean...
[01:33] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no
[01:33] <fabbione> ok
[01:33] <Mithrandir> at least, it didn't some time ago, and I'm not sure we want it to.
[01:34] <Kamion> hasn't been added AFAIK
[01:34] <elmo> yeah, I thought bzip2 support was meant to be limited to things like doc packages  where it's an obvious win?
[01:34] <fabbione> it's ok... i am testing the kernel build using bzip2, but udebs are created in a separate target
[01:34] <Kamion> well ... a lot of the bloat in .udebs does come from stonking templates files
[01:35] <fabbione> elmo: i am just doing a test on mdz request
[01:35] <Kamion> most of that's outside the initrd though, which is where it really matters; the bulk of the initrd is modules
[01:35] <fabbione> all header files should be a gain
[01:35] <Kamion>         snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "ar -p %s data.tar.gz|tar -xzf -", pkg->file);
[01:35] <Kamion> that's hardwired
[01:35] <elmo> mdz needs to be forced to use less than fast-as-heck computers for a while
[01:35] <Mithrandir> elmo: heh :)
[01:35] <fabbione> elmo: it's not like i disagree with you :-)
[01:37] <Keybuk> oh, man; shouldn't read people's quote files and get ideas
[01:37] <Keybuk> doogie piping apt output through chef ... ROSETTA HERE I COME!
[01:40] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: I asked you to read through the patch before sending it to me -- I'm not interested in your .arch-ids and such. :P
[01:42] <fabbione> daniels: you around?
[01:43] <d3vic3> erm 
[01:43] <d3vic3> I did 
[01:43] <d3vic3> read it 
[01:43] <d3vic3> Mithrandir, sorry I missed the .arch-ids 
[01:46] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: why are you build-depending on module-assistant?
[01:48] <Keybuk> Kamion: clearly, !arch should be #!/usr/bin/dpkg
[01:49] <d3vic3> I'm not 
[01:49] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that's for the kernel module i think
[01:50] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: you patch shows me that it has changed in the diff you sent me.
[01:50] <fabbione> the cloop-stuff is kinda.. hmmm intersting..
[01:50] <d3vic3> I just fixed a bug on that package 
[01:50] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: http://err.no/~tfheen/cloop.diff is the cleaned-up patch I got.
[01:51] <Mithrandir> part of that sillyness (patching config.log and makefile) isn't your fault.
[01:53] <d3vic3> theres a lesson to be learned here issin't there 
[01:53] <sabdfl> HostingGeek: yes
[01:54] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: yes, make readable patches, so you don't get questions like "why did you do $foo" and you think you didn't, but the patch shows you did. :)
[01:54] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: no worries, I'll just remove that part of the patch before testing.
[01:54] <d3vic3> erm 
[01:54] <d3vic3> ok 
[01:54] <sabdfl> HostingGeek: please work with elmo to get it into universe, and if you'd like to maintain it so much the better
[01:54] <HostingGeek> sabdfl: haha this is easy so i guess nvu will be in universe in a few days
[01:54] <sabdfl> cool
[01:55] <HostingGeek> i got one for 0.60
[01:55] <HostingGeek> i found using google
[01:55] <HostingGeek> but 0.70 is out.....
[01:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: heh
[01:56] <bob2> probably best to coordinate with whoever ITP'd it for Debian, too
[01:56] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: rebuilding a package for a new version is easy
[01:57] <HostingGeek> why can't debian fire the nvu package maniger if he can't do it in 183+ days then he shouldn't take the jobs lots of other have been abled to
[01:57] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: an ITP isn't a lock
[01:58] <bob2> HostingGeek: erm, maybe you should email him/her and ask if you can help?
[01:58] <Keybuk> it's just an announcement that they're working on one
[01:58] <HostingGeek> bob2: i have emailed him to ask what taking so long but no answer
[01:58] <bob2> HostingGeek: did you CC the ITP bug?
[01:58] <Treenaks> Keybuk: it's an advisory lock :)
[01:59] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: then I'd reassign the ITP to yourself and package it
[01:59] <HostingGeek> bob2: cc?
[02:00] <thom> on the email to the maintainer
[02:03] <HostingGeek> # nvu
[02:03] <HostingGeek> deb http://www.linuxbh.org/naarea/ pacotes/
[02:03] <HostingGeek> that rep apparently has nvu
[02:03] <HostingGeek> i have not tested it
[02:04] <HostingGeek> and i get a 403 from http://www.linuxbh.org/naarea/
[02:04] <Keybuk> it only has binary .debs on it though, at a glance
[02:04] <Keybuk> obviously anything in universe is built on our autobuilder network, so it's the source package we'd need
[02:04] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: nvu is GPL
[02:04] <HostingGeek> we can force the code from him
[02:05] <Keybuk> I wouldn't be surprised if he threw it away
[02:05] <azeem> HostingGeek: did you ever package a .deb?
[02:05] <Keybuk> he has a "written offer" from linspire, so can just point you at their website if he's not changed anything
[02:05] <HostingGeek> azeem: yes and ask bob2 about it
[02:05] <bob2> you made a package? of what?
[02:06] <HostingGeek> bob2: you remeber my port of gaim 1 to warty and xchat 2.4
[02:06] <Kamion> since you keep changing nicks I'd imagine it's hard for anyone to remember
[02:06] <bob2> you didn't make packages
[02:06] <bob2> you ran 'apt-get source -b xchat' on warty against hoary's source repository
[02:07] <HostingGeek> bob2: no i didn't
[02:07] <HostingGeek> hoary wasn't open yet
[02:07] <bob2> that's what you told me at the time
[02:07] <bob2> or sid then
[02:07] <Keybuk> to clarify, what we need for ubuntu is the .orig.tar.gz (probably just a renamed upstream tarball), a .diff.gz containing the debian/ directory with all the control files in and any patches to make nvu comply with Debian policy and the .dsc file that goes along with both
[02:07] <bob2> HostingGeek: assuming you're GMAIL aka GNU-DEBIAN aka shimun aka shimon
[02:07] <HostingGeek> you said it will be 2 week till hoary merges
[02:08] <HostingGeek> i was never shimun
[02:08] <HostingGeek> and you forgot Ubuntu-linux
[02:08] <bob2> it'd be really great if you could stop changing nicks, too
[02:09] <azeem> or have a real name
[02:09] <elmo> azeem: yeah, Ben
[02:09] <azeem> shuddup
[02:10] <HostingGeek> shimon is my real name
[02:10] <Keybuk> what's worse is I have to think to remember azeem's real name
[02:10] <HostingGeek> but now someone called jamse has the nick
[02:10] <Keybuk> while Ben is foremost in my mind
[02:10] <sivang> HostingGeek: where are you from?
[02:11] <HostingGeek> australia
[02:11] <HostingGeek> now is this ontopic
[02:11] <sivang> HostingGeek: you have a rather, hebrew sounding name :) (much like mines:)
[02:11] <plovs> jdub which of these is current: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule and http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryHedgehogReleaseSchedule
[02:12] <HostingGeek> sivang: of couse i do
[02:12] <HostingGeek> because it is
[02:12] <sivang> HostingGeek: :)
[02:12] <HostingGeek> now well do people say what i say is offtopic?
[02:13] <HostingGeek> *why
[02:14] <bob2> because you tend to ramble and paste odd things while people are having technical discussions
[02:14] <tseng> HostingGeek: because the channel is mostly about the developers working while we politely watch or try to help out where we can
[02:14] <bob2> and make assertions, insist they are true, and then go silent when proven false
[02:14] <ogra_> plovs: i think its the second one....iirc they postponed the schedule a week
[02:16] <sivang> bob2: hehe, mostly :)
[02:16] <smurfix> Seems HoaryReleaseSchedule is the outdated one
[02:16] <ogra_> hmm, but the editing date suggests something else, strange
[02:17] <smurfix> Bah, the other way round, sorry
[02:17] <plovs> ogra_: ok, i'll delete the first one and blame you :-) thanks!
[02:17] <ogra_> plovs....wait :)
[02:17] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: ta, seems to work.
[02:18] <plovs> ogra_: don't worry, i haven't done anything yet
[02:18] <HostingGeek> bob2: do not get unwired! i am getting 5kb/s sence there new stupid policy that reseller only get a connection rate of 25:1  that is no where enough with such a leet isp
[02:18] <ogra_> plovs i'm not quite sure about that, i just remember there was a discussion to postpone (which would match the second one), but the editing date of the first one is more current
[02:19] <bob2> HostingGeek: I have no idea what you're talking about, it seems unrelated to every one of the 5 conversations we've had tonight
[02:19] <HostingGeek> okok i guess your not up to date with 1 year old news in sydney
[02:19] <plovs> ogra_: yes, i noticed ... weird, i'll wait until jdub wakes up
[02:20] <ogra_> plovs: yep, probably the best to do here :)
[02:27] <d3vic3> Mithrandir, thanx 
[02:27] <d3vic3> can I have that file back ? 
[02:28] <Mithrandir> http://err.no/~tfheen/cloop.diff ; you just want to apply the first patch; the rest are there because you diffed against an unclean tree.
[02:29] <d3vic3> ok
[02:29] <Mithrandir> and then you add a changelog entry to debian/changelog (use dch -i), build using debuild -S and upload.
[02:29] <Mithrandir> (you're in the keyring, aren't you?)
[02:30] <HostingGeek> i got nvu 0.50 debs here
[02:30] <Nafallo> thom: there?
[02:30] <HostingGeek> plus 0.41
[02:30] <d3vic3> keyring ? 
[02:30] <d3vic3> i have my key signed 
[02:30] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: the ubuntu keyring, so you can upload.
[02:31] <d3vic3> and uploaded to subkey server
[02:31] <Kamion> I don't remember the community council approving Charles, so I don't think he is
[02:31] <d3vic3> yes 
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.
[02:31] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: I can upload the fix for you, then, if you want.
[02:31] <Kamion> (yet)
[02:32] <d3vic3> Mithrandir, yes, but can you tell me how ? 
[02:32] <HostingGeek> and i also have gambas 1 gtk (OMG GTK+) debs
[02:33] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: make sure you start from pristine source, then apply the patch.  Write an appropriate changelog entry (where you make sure to note the bug# of the bug you have fixed) and build the package using debuild -S.  Since you don't have anywhere to put it online, just mail me the .dsc and the .diff.gz
[02:34] <Mithrandir> and please, please, please read through the diff to make sure you don't have anything there which you shouldn't and the other way around.
[02:35] <thom> Nafallo: yes
[02:35] <HostingGeek> and source packages
[02:35] <HostingGeek> we have biuness
[02:36] <Nafallo> thom: exactly what is done to the latest powernowd (Version: 0.90-1ubuntu7). I can't get my patch to work anymore :-P.
[02:36] <HostingGeek> ok nvu 0.5
[02:36] <thom> Nafallo: what patch?
[02:36] <HostingGeek> gambas using GTK+
[02:36] <HostingGeek> ...
[02:36] <HostingGeek> lots of cool stuff
[02:36] <Nafallo> thom: the one on #5256 :-)
[02:36] <thom> Nafallo: uh, the latest upload is -5, anyway
[02:37] <thom> oh, i used the latest cpufreq-detect script, so your patch will need to be applied manually and rediffed *shrug*
[02:37] <Nafallo> thom: ops, my bad. I should learn that dpkg -l is better than apt-cache show ;-)
[02:38] <HostingGeek> elmo: are you here?
[02:38] <elmo> HostingGeek: yes
[02:38] <HostingGeek> i am working with you right? to get them in universe and maybe into main?
[02:38] <elmo> HostingGeek: did you read what keybuk wrote about what we need?
[02:39] <HostingGeek> yes
[02:39] <HostingGeek> and we have them
[02:39] <HostingGeek> this is the rep http://www.linex.org/sources/linex/debian/
[02:39] <HostingGeek> deb http://www.linex.org/sources/linex/debian/ sarge linex
[02:39] <HostingGeek> *deb-src
[02:40] <Nafallo> thom: I need to make more changes than add "[Mm] obile\ AMD\ Athlon*\ 64\ Processor*)" in there?
[02:40] <Treenaks> Athlonnnnn and athlo and processo and procesorrr are valid?
[02:40] <Keybuk> those are 0.50 ?
[02:40] <Treenaks> uh all capitalized, of course
[02:41] <fabbione> Keybuk: dpkg --build -Zbzip2 debian/tmp-headers ..
[02:41] <thom> Treenaks: it's more Processor 2800+ v Processor 3200+
[02:41] <fabbione> dpkg: unknown option -Z
[02:41] <HostingGeek> elmo: so what better a binary 0.6 nvu deb or a source of 0.5
[02:41] <elmo> HostingGeek: binaries are not an option
[02:41] <Treenaks> thom: oh it's not regex..
[02:41] <Nafallo> Treenaks: and Athlon vs Athlon(tm)
[02:41] <Keybuk> fabbione: use dpkg-deb :)
[02:41] <HostingGeek> elmo: but can't you get some of the stuff you need out of them?
[02:41] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: nope, there's nothing useful in a binary
[02:42] <fabbione> Keybuk: i love you...
[02:42] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: want a laugh? look at my /proc/cpuinfo on my server? answer yes if you want to see
[02:42] <Treenaks> Keybuk: and you maintain libtool?
[02:42] <thom> Treenaks: which is shell...
[02:42] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: but can't you decode the 0101's into source slowly?
[02:43] <Treenaks> thom: yeah I noticed
[02:43] <Keybuk> Treenaks: yeah, your point? :p
[02:44] <Keybuk> fabbione: should be as easy as replacing "dpkg --build" with "dpkg-deb --build"
[02:44] <Keybuk> except dpkg-deb actually has useful options
[02:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: btw -Z is not documented in dpkg-deb man page...
[02:46] <Keybuk> fabbione: I don't want people to use it (in Debian) yet
[02:46] <Nafallo> thom: do I need to do something more than edit and run that cpufreq-detect.sh?
[02:46] <thom> no
[02:46] <Keybuk> +++ nvu-0.50/nvu
[02:46] <Keybuk> @@ -0,0 +1,6 @@
[02:46] <Keybuk> +#!/bin/sh
[02:46] <Keybuk> +nvuviejo=`grep -r 0.5 $HOME/.nvu/*|grep useragent`
[02:46] <Keybuk> +if [  -z "$nvuviejo" ] ; then
[02:46] <Keybuk> +	rm -Rf $HOME/.nvu
[02:46] <Keybuk> +fi
[02:46] <Keybuk> +/usr/lib/nvu/nvu
[02:46] <Nafallo> thom: then I can't see why it doesn't work :-/.
[02:46] <Keybuk> *gulp*
[02:47] <thom> aiiiie
[02:47] <thom> Nafallo: do you get any error output?
[02:47] <Nafallo> thom: just the NONE info :-/.
[02:47] <thom> sladen: PING!
[02:47] <fabbione> ok
[02:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok
[02:47] <HostingGeek> elmo: so this rep is any good? or more looking for one with source?
[02:48] <HostingGeek> btw its a big upgrade from 0.6 to 0.7 as they swap to firefox at the core
[02:49] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: are you content with 0.5 ?
[02:49] <HostingGeek> ?
[02:49] <Keybuk> the linex repository has nvu 0.50 in it
[02:49] <HostingGeek> what contant?
[02:49] <HostingGeek> yes thats what i said
[02:49] <Keybuk> so are you happy with that?
[02:49] <HostingGeek> it has the source packages too
[02:50] <Kamion> HostingGeek: source is a *requirement*, not at all optional
[02:50] <Keybuk> yes, of 0.50
[02:50] <HostingGeek> Kamion: yes and it has them
[02:50] <Keybuk> you speak English, right? :)
[02:50] <Kamion> 13:47 < HostingGeek> elmo: so this rep is any good? or more looking for one with source?
[02:50] <Kamion> replying to that
[02:50] <HostingGeek> arghh let me reword that
[02:51] <HostingGeek> elmo: so is this rep any good (as in is its source package crap or not)? or should i look for another rep with source packages
[02:51] <HostingGeek> btw thank google
[02:52] <elmo> HostingGeek: dude, how about you have a look at the source packages, and you tell me if you think they're any good or not?
[02:53] <HostingGeek> elmo: hey i am not good at this stuff i an a n00b to it accully
[02:53] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: are you aware that 0.50 looks nothing like the screenshots on their site?
[02:54] <HostingGeek> yes
[02:54] <HostingGeek> OMG my system crashing 
[02:55] <HostingGeek> my cpu is too hot i might shutdown any second
[02:55] <Keybuk> to me, the source package looks crack
[02:55] <Keybuk> it contains the entire moz codebase, rather than just build-depping on it
[02:55] <thom> Keybuk: that's probably right
[02:55] <HostingGeek> well 0.7 contain all of firefox
[02:56] <Keybuk> clearly this is a job for our firefox maintainer ... :p
[02:57] <Keybuk> dpkg-source: error: file nvu_0.50.orig.tar.gz has size 4325376 instead of expected 11480572
[02:57] <Keybuk> heh
[02:58] <Keybuk> the tarball doesn't match the dsc
[02:58] <thom> fuck. right. off
[02:59] <elmo> tsk, I think thom needs to go back to those anger management classes
[02:59] <thom> :-)
[02:59] <Keybuk> "DEALING WITH THE CYLONE.  12 Steps."
[02:59] <thom> Keybuk: Step 1, be on board the battlestar galactica when they attack?
[03:00] <thom> it's not my fault you typoed Cyclone :-)
[03:00] <Keybuk> haven't been able to type all day today
[03:00] <carlos> pitti: dude, you should use autoconf/automake with pmount :-P
[03:01] <pitti> carlos: what for?
[03:01] <pitti> carlos: I hate this stuff
[03:01] <carlos> pitti: why?
[03:05] <pitti> carlos: it is big, various autoconf/automake versions are incompatible, it blows up the build system and makes it non-obvious
[03:05] <pitti> carlos: also it uses recursive makefiles (which is a bad habit)
[03:05] <Hosting-Geek_> OMG
[03:06] <azeem> pitti: you can depend on one version
[03:06] <pitti> carlos: and it is much too heavy for such a small package like pmount
[03:06] <Hosting-Geek_> it chant be happening my system crashed
[03:06] <Hosting-Geek_> someone send me logs
[03:06] <carlos> pitti: in theory it's more portable
[03:06] <pitti> azeem, carlos: why _should_ I use autofoo for compiling 4 c files?
[03:07] <Keybuk> logs
[03:07] <azeem> pitti: dunno whether there are any porting issues with pmount. If there are none, it might not be worthwhile, *shrug*
[03:07] <pitti> what is not portable with
[03:07] <pitti> pmount: $(pmount_OBJ)
[03:07] <pitti>         $(CC) $(LDFLAGS) $^ $(LIBS) -o $@
[03:07] <Keybuk> pitti: what's amusing is that everything you just said there is wrong <g>
[03:07] <azeem> I was talking about the code, not the Makefile
[03:08] <pitti> Keybuk: what is wrong?
 carlos: it is big, various autoconf/automake versions are incompatible, it blows up the build system and makes it non-obvious
 carlos: also it uses recursive makefiles (which is a bad habit)
[03:08] <pitti> Keybuk: did you never ever have the problem of wanting to autoreconf and failed?
[03:08] <Kamion> it clearly is much bigger than not using it
[03:09] <pitti> Keybuk: this has happened so often to me that I learned to hate it
[03:09] <Keybuk> pitti: sometimes, I fixed the bugs
[03:09] <pitti> Keybuk: and it _is_ big, compared to an 2K makefile, you can't say that I'm wrong about that
[03:09] <Keybuk> well, true
[03:09] <Keybuk> I can't fault you there
[03:10] <Keybuk> the generated Makefile is bigger than 2k, but also rather more useful
[03:10] <Keybuk> the source (that you edit) is rather smaller though
[03:10] <pitti> Keybuk: recursive Makefiles can trash your build if you are not careful
[03:10] <pitti> Keybuk: of course that is not a problem with a project the size of pmount
[03:11] <Keybuk> pitti: what's automake got to do with recursive Makefiles ?
[03:11] <Kamion> if you don't need a wheel, there's no point borrowing a spare one just because it's circular :)
[03:11] <Treenaks> sivang: you have weird hostmasks :)
[03:11] <sivang> Treenaks: I know :-)
[03:11] <pitti> Keybuk: is there any way to avoid it with autofoo?
[03:11] <Keybuk> pitti: so?  I've always seen recursive Makefiles for every single project, even those that don't use automake
[03:12] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah.  Don't put a Makefile.am in every directory
[03:12] <Kamion> ("do people want fire that can be inserted nasally?")
[03:12] <lamont> thom: ack
[03:12] <thom> ahah
[03:12] <pitti> Keybuk: but don't you loose all the magic if you don't?
[03:12] <Keybuk> pitti: what magic?
[03:12] <Keybuk> automake's just a script that adds pre-defined rules based on Makefile variables you put in a source file
[03:12] <azeem> Keybuk: black magic
[03:12] <thom> lamont: i take it your recommended way of mixing forwards and mailboxes in postfix virtual hosting is multiple domains?
[03:13] <pitti> Keybuk: okay, if that's possible and does not make the job harder, then I withdraw that argument
[03:13] <Keybuk> bin_PROGRAMS = pmount
[03:13] <Keybuk> pmount_SOURCES = src/pmount.c src/policy.c
[03:13] <pitti> Keybuk: it's just that I never saw a single makefile with a multi-dir project
[03:13] <Keybuk> pmount_LDADD = lib/libmount.a
[03:13] <Keybuk> or whatever
[03:13] <pitti> Keybuk: (using autofoo)
[03:13] <lamont> thom: that's probably the cleanest way
[03:14] <Keybuk> pitti: I've seen about as many as I've seen without automake
[03:14] <lamont> it can be done the other way, but it's not as pretty
[03:14] <Keybuk> maybe 3 or 4
[03:14] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: elmo: are the source packages any good?
[03:14] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: no.
[03:14] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: why?
[03:14] <lamont> Kamion: so I gather that another rootfs is in order?
[03:14] <pitti> Keybuk: so again, is there any reason why the current Makefile is worse than an automake'd one?
[03:14] <HostingGeek> its better than the current way of installing nvu
[03:14] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: for a start, the tarball on that URL doesn't match the md5sum or size specified in the .dsc
[03:15] <pitti> Keybuk: if there is, then I'm willing to learn
[03:15] <lamont> Kamion: fabbione: looks like 2.6.10-5 is the most recent kernel?
[03:15] <Keybuk> pitti: not especially
[03:15] <pitti> Keybuk: it's just that the current one does what it should, is small and don't cause problems
[03:15] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: well it can be fixed
[03:15] <fabbione> lamont: it is. i have -6 on the way soon.
[03:16] <fabbione> lamont: but -5 is lacking the hppa patch (mdz missed it this night)
[03:16] <HostingGeek> and Keybuk its better than a 0.41
[03:16] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: dude, that's a total problem.  That.  Source.  Package.  Is.  Unsafe.
[03:16] <Nafallo> thom: shouldn't powernow-k8.ko be in /lib/modules/2.6.10-1-amd64-k8/kernel/drivers/cpufreq?
[03:16] <Keybuk> pitti: it was carlos suggesting you autofoo it, not me :p
[03:17] <pitti> carlos: again, so why did you propose to use autofoo?
[03:17] <pitti> carlos: does it make Rosetta imports easier? :-)
[03:17] <Keybuk> about the only advantage would be that you'd get "make dist", but I'm sure you don't care about that given the size of package
[03:17] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: ok we will remove the rm -rf /* code but the rest is safe
[03:17] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: you're not listening to a single word I say, clearly
[03:18] <lamont> thom: the two solutions are (1) complete virtual map (has naked domain on LHS) that maps everything to some other domain(s), one or more of which are delivered to some vda/imap/whatever, and (2) partial virtual map (no naked domain on LHS) with a transport map that delivers said domain (if not rewritten) to some vda/imap/whatever
[03:18] <Nafallo> thom: find gives me kernel/arch/x86_64/kernel/cpufreq/powernow-k8.ko
[03:18] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: but its easier to make the package safe than making our own
[03:18] <fabbione> Nafallo: and what is the problem with that?
[03:19] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: Read What I Said.
[03:19] <Kamion> lamont: yeah
[03:19] <HostingGeek>  That.  Source.  Package.  Is.  Unsafe.
[03:19] <Nafallo> fabbione: probably just chasing ghosts while trying to make powernowd load the right stuff.
[03:19] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: and why did I say it was unsafe?
[03:19] <HostingGeek> yes now just remove the un and it will become safe
[03:20] <Nafallo> fabbione: I was expecting to find all cpufreq-stuff in one place :-)
[03:20] <HostingGeek> its possible to make something unsafe, safe
[03:20] <lamont> Kamion: now, or after -6?
[03:20] <fabbione> Nafallo: a call to modprobe doesn't imply a path, so that it is bogus and the kernel is allowed to put stuff around. it doesn't matter at the end where it is
[03:20] <Keybuk> HostingGeek: ok, now listen carefully
[03:20] <Keybuk> A Debian source package consists of three files.
[03:20] <Keybuk> 1) A tarball containing the source code
[03:20] <HostingGeek> i know
[03:20] <Keybuk> 2) A patch adding Debian-specific magic
[03:20] <Kamion> lamont: don't really mind personally, depends whether mdz wants amd64
[03:21] <Keybuk> 3) A file describing it, and (here's the clever bit), the size and a checksum for the other two
[03:21] <Kamion> lamont: if amd64's wanted now then we need a new build now; if it's not urgent then we can wait
[03:21] <lamont> Kamion: I can run one now, or just before the meeting at 1600Z
[03:21] <Nafallo> fabbione: oki. loading it didn't help the damn script either :-P.
[03:21] <Kamion> lamont: go for it now, I guess, it's cheap right? :)
[03:21] <Keybuk> the size and checksum listed in the description file for the tarball with the source in _does_not_match_ the size and checksum of the tarball alongside it on that site
[03:22] <Keybuk> from this you can infer a great many things
[03:22] <fabbione> lamont, Kamion: -6 will push new packages with an ABI change and mostlikely to break other stuff like linux-meta and l-r-m. THat's probably why mdz wants everything done before my upload
[03:22] <Keybuk> I choose to infer that somebody has compromised that FTP site and replaced the tarball with one that exploits some new problem in tar, and will wipe my system if I unpack it
[03:22] <thom> lamont: nod, thanks
[03:22] <fabbione> and i have no rush to upload -6
[03:22] <Mithrandir> I suck.
[03:22] <Keybuk> this may, or may not be true
[03:22] <Keybuk> either way, that is not the tarball that was originally uploaded
[03:23] <HostingGeek> email linex about it
[03:23] <Keybuk> I have no reason to
[03:23] <Kamion> HostingGeek: you're the one pushing for it, you should take responsibility
[03:23] <Keybuk> feel free to do so yourself
[03:23] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: what's the status of those torrents? seems I got only one down while sleeping.
[03:23] <HostingGeek> Kamion: i do not speak spanish
[03:24] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: right, I don't have the sources for the rest of them, yet. :/
[03:24] <HostingGeek> anyone here speak spanish?
[03:24] <fabbione> mdz: you awake yet?
[03:24] <Keybuk> I'm sure the Linex guys are perfectly capable of understanding English
[03:24] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: yikes, I thought you had them coming with ftp?
[03:24] <Keybuk> probably better than you
[03:24] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: yes, and that sftp I'm getting them over is sloooooow.
[03:25] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: hehe, oki. I thought my line was slow ;-).
[03:25] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: it's not my line which is slow, it's the other's
[03:26] <lamont> Kamion: new livecd fs builds on all 4 architectures, although ia64 is known to gonna-die
[03:27] <HostingGeek> Keybuk: why would they know spanish?
[03:28] <Keybuk> you don't live in Canberra by any chance, do you?
[03:29] <HostingGeek> no hell no i want to stay as far away from a 5 city state
[03:29] <Keybuk> really?  you surprise me
[03:30] <HostingGeek> sydney mate
[03:31] <HostingGeek> ok whats the linex email
[03:31] <lamont> Mithrandir: any clue on what's borked in libsdl1.2?
[03:31] <lamont> (on amd64 only...)
[03:32] <Mithrandir> lamont: ew.
[03:32] <Mithrandir> that one just looks mean
[03:32] <Mithrandir> looks like a gcc bug at first sight.
[03:33] <Keybuk> damn, bubulle woke up and mirrored the missing patch
[03:33] <Keybuk> I have no excuse not to release 1.10.26 now
[03:33] <lamont>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: gaim but it is not going to be installed
[03:33] <lamont>                   Depends: totem-gstreamer but it is not going to be installed
[03:33] <lamont> E: Broken packages
[03:33] <lamont> Kamion: bummer
[03:33] <Mithrandir> lamont: I've broken gaim, mea culpa.
[03:33] <lamont> Mithrandir: can you fix it quick?
[03:33] <Mithrandir> yeah, working on it right now.
[03:34] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: but basically you only have one file to seed right now?
[03:34] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: correct.
[03:34] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I have about a third of mshuttleworth_small.avi as well
[03:35] <lamont> Kamion: fabbione: I'll try another livecd in a bit, then.
[03:35] <lamont> although I wonder what's up with gstreamer as well..
[03:35] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: OK.. can I start using the torrents and wait for you to start seeding?
[03:35] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: sure
[03:35] <Treenaks> OK :)
[03:36] <HostingGeek> Mithrandir: nice one so i shouldn't do an upgrade just yet as i was about to?
[03:36] <lamont> doko: could it be that we need a new something? locale: error while loading shared libraries: libunwind.so.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[03:37] <Mithrandir> HostingGeek: it won't let you, I imagine
[03:38] <lamont> ah, gstreamer: totem-gstreamer: Depends: libnautilus-burn0 (>= 2.8.3) but it is not installable
[03:38] <HostingGeek> Mithrandir: couldn't you delete a file out of the rep if it only been there for a few min and then renumber the old verion up one
[03:38] <lamont> seb128: does a simple rebuild of totem-gstreamer work?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> HostingGeek: no, that's not how it's done.
[03:38] <seb128> should
[03:39] <seb128> lamont: but 0.100 is in the archive, which one is failing ?
[03:39] <Kamion> HostingGeek: (a) no, he can't, (b) even if he could, he wouldn't, because it leads to more confusion in the long run if people had downloaded the package in that interval
[03:39] <lamont> 0.100-0ubuntu1 was built against old nautilus
[03:40] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: you are 200x faster than me both up and down, so that wasn't pointed at you ;-).
[03:40] <seb128> hum ok
[03:40] <lamont> bumped the build-dep to libnautilus-burn-dev (>= 2.9.4), uploading -ubunut2
[03:40] <seb128> nooo
[03:40] <lamont> seb128: ok.  no upload
[03:40] <seb128> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(NAUTILUS_BURN, libnautilus-burn < 2.9.0,,
[03:40] <seb128>                 AC_MSG_ERROR(libnautilus-burn < 2.9.0 is needed))
[03:40] <seb128> in totem
[03:41] <seb128> it was meant to build with 2.8.6
[03:41] <lamont> seb128: could you fix it so it's installable again?
[03:41] <seb128> not atm
[03:41] <lamont> libnautilus-burn0 is no longer in the archive
[03:41] <seb128> need some upstream work to be compatible with the new libnautilus-burn1
[03:42] <Mithrandir> lamont: ok, new gaim uploaded.
[03:42] <seb128> that's on my todo list, but I've still 9 tarballs from 2.9.4 to package ... it'll take some time
[03:42] <Mithrandir> now I need to fix cloop-utils for d3vic3 
[03:42] <lamont> Mithrandir: and me...
[03:42] <seb128> lamont: don't bother with GNOME ftbfs for today and yesterday, there is bunch of problem, I'll solve them when all the 2.9.4 tarballs are packaged
[03:42] <Mithrandir> lamont: yeah, but Charles is the one who produced a patch
[03:43] <lamont> seb128: the other option is that I manually drop it from the Depends: in ubuntu-desktop, so that we can have a livecd to test...
[03:43] <Kamion> ugh
[03:43] <seb128> lamont: let me 15min to try to fix it first
[03:44] <seb128> just pinging upstream side
[03:44] <lamont> seb128: OK.  I'll go ahead and disappear for a bit, then check with you and do one or the other.
[03:44] <seb128> ok
[03:44] <lamont> ideally, an upload within the next 15 minutes would be great.
[03:44] <lamont> (before :00)
[03:45] <seb128> will try, but that's probably a bit short to find a fix, patch, try and upload
[03:45] <lamont> np.
[03:45] <Nafallo> thom: is it just me or those this have some significant effect on those amd CPUs ;-); case "$VENDOR_ID" in<br>GenuineIntel*)
[03:45] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: you _really_ need to be on hoary -- the patch I got is against the previous version of cloop.
[03:45] <lamont> seb128: yeah, I expect so.
[03:46] <d3vic3> Mithrandir, ok, but the bandwidth here is a bit slow 
[03:47] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: I'll just handle it now, but at least point your deb-src lines to hoary
[03:47] <d3vic3> ok
[03:50] <crimsun> seb128: / lamont: thanks for the excellent 'strict' mode for metacity :)
[03:51] <thom> Nafallo: heh
[03:51] <seb128> that's lamont's work, I've only included the patch :)
[03:51] <crimsun> seb128: aye
[03:54] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: also, usually make sure your uploads are pointed to hoary, not unstable.
[03:54] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: uploaded now.
[03:54] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: so you can then close the bug.
[03:58] <fabbione> hmmmm i have a problem with distcc....
[03:59] <fabbione> distcc[10739]  Warning: failed to distribute /usr/src/.ccache/earlyquirk.tmp.gordian.10681.i to gundam.int.fabbione.net, running locally instead
[03:59] <Mithrandir> lamont: what's the missing magic which needs to happen for mono to work?
[03:59] <fabbione> and there is a distccd running on gundam with the proper ALLOWEDNETS stuff...
[03:59] <fabbione> distcc[10739]  (dcc_pump_sendfile) ERROR: sendfile failed: Connection reset by peer
[03:59] <fabbione> any idea of what could be the problem?
[04:03] <Mithrandir> thom: what do you use for generating the list for readahead?
[04:06] <thom> Mithrandir: strace and ldd
[04:07] <Mithrandir> thom: ok.  That sucks, really.  IMHO, at least.  Can't one ask the kernel to start collecting a list of files it's opening and then later collect said list?
[04:08] <thom> there is a patch that get the kernel to punt everything it opens to klog
[04:08] <Mithrandir> do you have a reference for that?
[04:10] <thom> Mithrandir: the patch is in the kernel source rpms in fedora
[04:10] <thom> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-November/msg01374.html for a bit of info
[04:11] <seb128> lamont: totem cvs snapshot in upload, build with libnautilus-... > 2.9
[04:17] <Nafallo> thom: I should sign a bug with the new patch and assign it to you?
[04:17] <thom> no, i've fixed it already
[04:18] <Nafallo> thom: *s* New upload? It's rather grave to screw all AMDs out there ;-).
[04:19] <thom> my P-M works alright, so who cares? ;-)
[04:19] <Nafallo> thom: don't forget to add [Mm] Mobile AMD Athlon* 64 in that case :-)
[04:20] <thom> it's already there
[04:20] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:22] <thom> Nafallo: can you grab http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/cpufreq-detect.sh and run it
[04:23] <Nafallo> thom: powernow-k8 :-)
[04:24] <thom> sounds reasonable to me
[04:25] <Nafallo> thom: why do we have * after VENDOR_ID?
[04:25] <thom> to allow for the possibility of spaces and so on
[04:26] <Nafallo> thom: oki, agreed. but (tm) should be * :-)
[04:26] <carlos> pitti: it was just a curiosity, I just downloaded the source to see how the .pot file is named, that's all
[04:26] <pitti> carlos: ah, ok
[04:29] <thom> Nafallo: no.
[04:33] <Nafallo> thom: if you say so...
[04:36] <lamont> Mithrandir: dunno --> thom
[04:36] <Kamion> $ ../debconf test.config
[04:36] <Kamion> Trace/breakpoint trap
[04:36] <Kamion> aargh
[04:37] <lamont> seb128: thanks
[04:37] <Kamion> I will personally worship anyone who ports valgrind to powerpc
[04:37] <thom> Mithrandir: looking at that now
[04:37] <seb128> np
[04:37] <mdz> fabbione: here
[04:37] <mdz> Kamion: I would very much like amd64; what's wrong with it?
[04:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: use qemu and run it in i386 mode?
[04:38] <lamont> mdz: ubuntu-desktop uninstallable, should be fixed at :03
[04:38] <seb128> Kamion: there is a patch for valgrind/powerpc IIRC
[04:38] <mdz> Kamion: ah, udeb/livefs mismatch
[04:38] <Kamion> mdz: built with -5 kernel udebs and -4 in the livefs
[04:38] <fabbione> mdz: building the kernel with bzip2 we save almost nothing
[04:38] <Kamion> seb128: really?
[04:38] <mdz> fabbione: really?  I'm surprised, but thanks for testing
[04:38] <seb128> yeah, some GNOME dude use valgrind on ppc
[04:39] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'd have to rebuild the binary I'm valgrinding anyway, so that wouldn't really save much
[04:39] <fabbione> mdz: approx 9MB for all the i386 of which an average of 1.6/1.8 on the images and we lose on doc and other stuff
[04:39] <Kamion> awesome
[04:39] <mdz> fabbione: _lose_ on documentation?
[04:43] <fabbione> mdz: yesyes
[04:43] <fabbione> ehm yes
[04:43] <Kamion> sigh, all the sites with the valgrind/powerpc tarball are down
[04:43] <fabbione> approx 400K
[04:49] <cartman> there is always a source tarball on http://valgrind.kde.org
[04:51] <lamont> seb128: new totem built and uploaded on all 4
[04:51] <lamont> thank you
[04:52] <seb128> np
[04:53] <Kamion> cartman: not for powerpc, as far as I can see; would like to be corrected if I'm wrong
[04:53] <lamont> Kamion: I assume you just want to know when all 3 fs's are ready, yes?
[04:53] <Kamion> lamont: yes
[04:53] <cartman> Kamion: source tarball should compile everywhere afaik. if not its a bug
[04:55] <Kamion> cartman: er, not in the slightest
[04:55] <Kamion> cartman: porting valgrind is not even a little bit trivial
[04:55] <cartman> Kamion: ah its not ported?
[04:55] <cartman> I thought it was ported hence it should compile
[04:55] <Kamion> cartman: it emulates an i386 processor; to make it useful on powerpc, you have to make it emulate a powerpc processor
[04:56] <Kamion> cartman: this is not exactly a "just works" thing
[04:56] <cartman> Kamion: yes I know but didn't know it wasn't working on powerpc
[04:56] <Kamion> it is not
[04:56] <cartman> I know Solaris is not supported
[04:56] <Kamion> most systems are not supported
[04:56] <mjt> valgrind is especially for i386
[04:56] <mjt> NAME
[04:56] <mjt>        valgrind - a memory debugger for x86-linux
[04:57] <Kamion> it only supports i386/Linux right now
[04:57] <mjt> there's alot of stuff in it that's x86-linux-specific
[04:57] <Kamion> yes, there's an experimental port to powerpc which seb128 alerted me to though, and I was trying to get the tarball for that
[04:57] <lamont> meeting in 2
[04:58] <stratus> Is gaim 1.1.1-2ubuntu3 w/o documentation or what? Please, look at /usr/share/doc/gaim :)
[04:58] <Simira> ah, that's right... thanks for reminding me, lamont.
[04:58] <stratus> Anyone eat my gaim changelog :(
[04:58] <cartman> Kamion: ok, sorry for confusion
[04:59] <mdz> lamont: can you confirm cloop-utils 2.01.5-2ubuntu2 on amd64
[04:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: it worked on my amd64 test box.
[04:59] <lamont> is in the archive, will freshen the chroot
[04:59] <sivang> garnacho: erghh.. I have some kind /join #ubuntu-meeting
[05:00] <sivang> oooooooooops
[05:00] <lamont> mdz: hack fix now gone
[05:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: oh, he asked you to test it?
[05:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, but I sponsored Charles' upload.
[05:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: I see, thanks
[05:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: the fix wasn't exactly what I expected...did you review it?
[05:01] <mdz> it casts an unsigned long to an unsigned int
[05:01] <Mithrandir> that should be safe.
[05:01] <Mithrandir> AIUI
[05:01] <mdz> which, while the values we're dealing with tend to be only about 2^16, loses precision
[05:01] <Mithrandir> that's true.
[05:06] <Mithrandir> what is the procedure for unreproducible bugs where the submitter doesn't answer?
[05:06] <Mithrandir> (for about four weeks, at least)
[05:06] <thom> resolve/invalid with a note
[05:07] <Mithrandir> ok
[05:20] <seb128> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libplds4.so not recognized
[05:20] <seb128> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libplc4.so not recognized
[05:20] <seb128> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libnspr4.so not recognized
[05:20] <seb128> somebody knows what is causing this ?
[05:21] <cartman> corrupted libraries?
[05:21] <thom> seb128: where are you seeing that?
[05:21] <sabdfl> daf: big call for ubuntu installer (d-i) in rosetta, can you arrange that today please?
[05:21] <seb128> thom: evolution-data-server build
[05:22] <thom> seb128: hrm, i've seen other things bitch about libnspr4
[05:24] <seb128> that causes issues like #5135
[05:25] <Kamion> sabdfl: daf isn't here
[05:28] <Keybuk> ugh @ yaclc ... a useful tool, but a clear example of bad ui as I have to figure it out again every time I use the thing :-/
[05:29] <Mithrandir> doesn't dcut work with our archive?
[05:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: dpkg-parsechangelog | yaclc ... but WHY does it not do that bit for you? :)
[05:32] <Kamion> hm, I just yaclc foo.changes
[05:32] <thom> elmo: is our morgue available anywhere?
[05:32] <elmo> morgue.ubuntu.com
[05:32] <thom> oh, how about that
[05:32] <elmo> oh, well, except it doesn't work
[05:32] <elmo> but details
[05:32] <thom> minor issue
[05:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: I tend to want to know if bug#s are wrong before I build the package
[05:37] <mdz> lamont: do we have a good amd64 livefs now?
[05:38] <lamont>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: gnome-applets but it is not going to be installed
[05:38] <lamont> that'd be 'no'
[05:38] <lamont> we have a new i386 though
[05:38] <lamont> ppc/amd64 have uninstallable ubuntu-desktop
[05:40] <lamont> seb128: gnome-applets ftbfs on i386: uudecode:
[05:40] <lamont> +debian/gnome-applets-data/usr/share/pixmaps/wireless-applet/broken-0.png: No such file or directory
[05:40] <seb128> ok, will fix it
[05:43] <Kokey> Hi! where can i find info about how to make a live cd with the 855patch?
[05:48] <mroth> hmm.. all the kernel images and headers were updated to 2.6.10-4, but all the restricted-modules seems to have not been pushed and are still at 2.6.10-3?
[05:48] <Kamion> mroth: those two pieces don't need to be the same version
[05:48] <fabbione> that's not an issue.. and please upgrade the kernel to -4
[05:48] <fabbione> hem
[05:48] <fabbione> -5
[05:49] <fabbione> -4 is borked in some aspects
[05:49] <mroth> Kamion: well, the nvidia module in -3 appears to be incompat. with the -4 kernel
[05:49] <fabbione> mroth: read above.. go to -5
[05:49] <Kamion> yes, that's a bug in -4
[05:49] <Kamion> module ABI broke
[05:49] <mroth> Will do, has it been pushed to archive yet?
[05:49] <fabbione> mroth: yup
[05:50] <fabbione> it's there since a few hours
[05:50] <mroth> ah yeah, i see it now
[05:51] <mroth> I'll reboot on lunch break, thanks. ;-)
[05:51] <lamont> seb128: holler when it's uploaded and give me back the baton...
[05:55] <fabbione> mdz: are you happy with the images around or do you want me to wait with -6? (that i plan for tomorrow afternoon my time)
[05:55] <mdz> fabbione: we need more time
[05:55] <mdz> fabbione: lamont was unable to build new images due to dependency breakage
[05:56] <fabbione> mdz: sure no prolem
[05:56] <fabbione> i will have more time to grab more fixes from bk
[05:56] <fabbione> and flush a bit the queue
[05:56] <trukulo> fabbione: can you put my lion wallpaper by default in hoary? lol
[05:56] <trukulo> don't tell anyone, just do it ;)
[05:56] <fabbione> trukulo: ehhehe
[05:57] <lamont> fabbione: we'll have Kamion hand you the baton once I give it to him hand he builds cd images.
[05:57] <fabbione> lamont: i am not in a hurry really....
[05:57] <fabbione> i just want to be able to schedule some work in progress
[05:58] <fabbione> specially now that i have my distcc cluster up and running i can test way faster
[05:58] <seb128> lamont: uploaded
[05:59] <thom> azeem: (re, suicide mission) you can just run around screaming "Ben Affleck!" (this joke only works if youve seen Team America World Police)
[06:00] <azeem> damn, I wanted to actually see the movie
[06:01] <lamont> seb128: and before :00.  awesome.
[06:01] <seb128> :)
[06:03] <Keybuk> thom: that's not out here yet, is it?
[06:04] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's why they invented torrent.. you know, don't you?
[06:04] <Keybuk> bah, 320x240 is not a good way to see movies
[06:04] <fabbione> Keybuk: now you can get DVD's directly....
[06:04] <fabbione> it's kinda impressive tbh
[06:05] <Keybuk> fabbione: given my usual success with bittorrent, that would take a few weeks
[06:05] <fabbione> Keybuk: it looks like.. after you go over the 30% it tends to speed up a lot
[06:05] <fabbione> i am down to 4 days/dvd
[06:05] <Mithrandir> that's fairly slow
[06:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i don't have 100Mb at home.. you know...
[06:06] <fabbione> and the ratio is way dependent on how fast you upload
[06:06] <fabbione> and there i am castrated
[06:06] <Mithrandir> true enough
[06:06] <thom> fabbione: does your girfriend know?
[06:07] <fabbione> thom: i don't ALWAYs get pr0n
[06:07] <fabbione> ;)
[06:07] <trukulo> fabbione: he means that you are castrated
[06:07] <trukulo> heh
[06:07] <fabbione> ahaha
[06:08] <fabbione> even if she did... it's not like anything... (golden rule of getting married.. if you were getting a bit of sex before.. you will get always less approaching the wedding and nothing after)
[06:09] <thom> heh
[06:09] <fabbione> "it's not like I GET anything"
[06:09] <Keybuk> fabbione: I think that's probably the problem; upload on UK ADSL is 256Kb
[06:09] <fabbione> was missing a bit ;)
[06:10] <OddAbe19> fabbione, why do you think my g/f and I don't have sex... so we can have more after the wedding
[06:10] <OddAbe19> :-P{
[06:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am on 512k but downloading N things, i cap the upload bw to 40K/N
[06:10] <fabbione> OddAbe19: yeah .. dream about it ;)
[06:10] <OddAbe19> lol
[06:11] <fabbione> after the wedding is much worst than before...
[06:11] <OddAbe19> so if it's nothing now... she's gonna chop my balls off after the wedding?
[06:11] <OddAbe19> got it
[06:11] <OddAbe19> lol
[06:11] <OddAbe19> ;-P
[06:11] <fabbione> eheh
[06:13] <OddAbe19> speaking of chopping balls off... i have to remember to make an appointment to have my cat neutered
[06:13] <mjg59> thom: Ping?
[06:13] <thom> mjg59: yo.
[06:13] <OddAbe19> thanks for bringing up the subject, i forgot
[06:13] <OddAbe19> lol
[06:13] <mjg59> thom: We need to do acpi-support
[06:14] <thom> yes, we do
[06:14] <trukulo> we need suspend support :P
[06:14] <mjg59> trukulo: It's there
[06:14] <thom> trukulo: hush in the cheap seats
[06:14] <mjg59> It just needs acpi-support to be dealt with
[06:14] <mjg59> thom: We also need to decide what to do about loading hotkey modules
[06:14] <trukulo> i'm in warty, don't listen me ;)
[06:16] <mjg59> thom: I think the scripts in my package ought to be a decent starting point, except for a couple of things:
[06:16] <mjg59> 1) We don't want to do video restore stuff on resume from disk
[06:16] <thom> ok
[06:16] <mjg59> 2) Most of the dodgy hardware stuff ought to be wrapped in config checks (enabled by default)
[06:17] <mjg59> Oh, and we ought to have a list of modules to remove/reload on suspend/resume (empty by default)
[06:17] <mjg59> And then we just need the scripts to check whether suspend is enabled or not
[06:17] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync tiff?
[06:17] <thom> right
[06:17] <mjg59> Then we can hand script names off to seb and get them in the logout dialogue
[06:18] <mjg59> Oh, argh. Except suspend to RAM shouldn't appear there if it's disabled in the config file. Oh well.
[06:18] <thom> yeah, that might be a tricky one
[06:18] <mjg59> Never mind. That's seb's problem :)
[06:18] <thom> is it possible to have conditional entries in the logout dialog? guess probably not
[06:18] <elmo> pitti: done
[06:19] <mjg59> I'm sure it's a simple matter of coding...
[06:19] <mjg59> And then I just need to go through the hotkey modules and work out all the possible events sleep and hibernate buttons may generate...
[06:20] <mjg59> thom: Is it worth looking into having the power button generate a logout dialogue rather than hibernating by default?
[06:20] <pitti> thanks
[06:21] <thom> i think that's the best option; current behaviour seems to surprise people a bit
[06:22] <mjg59> Last time I tried this, I had to write a small hacky client that connected to the session manager and generated a logout event
[06:22] <mjg59> I can't remember if there's a proper way to do it
[06:23] <Mithrandir> dbusify gdm and have something throw ACPI events onto the system dbus?
[06:26] <mjg59> Well, yeah
[06:26] <mjg59> thom: At the moment, most ACPI drivers don't actually get loaded. We should probably change that.
[06:27] <mdz> seb128, lamont: do we have an installable desktop yet?
[06:27] <mxpxpod> since the gtkmm api is frozen, do you think we could get gtkmm 2.5.5 and glibmm 2.5.4 packages into hoary?
[06:27] <thom> i'm not sure how we do that better, unless we try detecting what we have in the same way that we're doing so for powernowd
[06:28] <mjg59> That'd be one way. Alternatively, we just try loading all of them.
[06:30] <thom> yeah, we used to do that
[06:30] <thom> one of the hotkey modules spits it's dummy
[06:30] <lamont> mdz: should in 3 minutes
[06:30] <thom> and spews errors all over the shop
[06:30] <mjg59> thom: Eww. Can't we just remove its irritating printks?
[06:31] <thom> yeah
[06:31] <thom> i wasn't sure if it was anything more harmful
[06:31] <lamont> mdz: I think we do need to augment ubuntu-meta with a list of excluded-by-arch packages...
[06:31] <mjg59> thom: I'd say go with it, and then we can work out if there's anything broken afterwards
[06:31] <thom> agreed
[06:35] <Mithrandir> rock! zsh now has baz completions.
[06:37] <fabbione> ping?
[06:37] <fabbione> did i ping off?
[06:37] <thom> what do we do about suspend to disk initial setup? use laptop detect in d-i, setup the suspend partition to be big enough, ...
[06:38] <seb128> mdz: we need an installable desktop today ?
[06:38] <thom> hrm, last i saw was 17:31 < mjg59> thom: I'd say go with it, and then we can work out if there's anything broken afterwards
[06:38] <mdz> seb128: yes, in order to build live CDs
[06:38] <mdz> seb128: we need it ASAP
[06:39] <Kamion> we always need an installable desktop :-)
[06:39] <mdz> in fact, it needs to stay installable as much as possible for the remainder of the release cycle, in order to enable live CD development and installation testing
[06:39] <seb128> kind of the middle of GNOME 2.9.4 releases which has a lot of changes pushed before GNOME feature/API freeze
[06:40] <thom> mjg59: what do we do about suspend to disk initial setup? use laptop detect in d-i, setup the suspend partition to be big enough, set up grub-install with the correct params
[06:41] <Kamion> oof. somebody better be prepared to hack partman lots
[06:42] <mjt> is there a simple way (except of removing debian/config/$arch/* and working around some build probs as a result) to build just the source package from linux-source-2.6.10, without building all the kernels ?
[06:44] <mjg59> thom: mdz was keen on making the initrd stuff work without grub parameters
[06:44] <thom> ok, is that doable?
[06:44] <mdz> there's a bug open about it somewhere
[06:44] <mjg59> But yeah, make sure the suspend partition is big enough
[06:45] <mjg59> thom: Sure, pick the biggest swap partition
[06:45] <mjg59> The problem is that this needs to be done without fstab support...
[07:07] <OddAbe19> did we ever fix the K3b and .ICEauthority problem?
[07:07] <OddAbe19> it just occured to me
[07:10] <Kamion> mdz: can I get a new cdebconf into hoary, once I upload it to Debian? I've just made the stack driver work properly (I think), and I need that for moving the password question to the first stage
[07:10] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[07:10] <Kamion> that's basically the only set of changes barring translations and typo fixes; I seem to be the only one touching cdebconf lately
[07:11] <Kamion> (lately = since July, now that I look at it, sheesh)
[07:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: perhaps I should stomp a bit on it and break some day, then.
[07:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you're welcome, it'd be nice to have all its miscellaneous drivers actually working
[07:12] <lamont> Kamion: the baton is yours....  cd images if you please
[07:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have been playing with the idea of writing a test suite for it.
[07:13] <lamont> mdz: once Kamion gets cd images built, any reason to make fabbione wait on -6?
[07:13] <mdz> lamont: none
[07:13] <Kamion> if it's ever to replace perl debconf it needs some serious love
[07:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: there's a src/test/ directory, it's not a real test suite but it's useful
[07:14] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'd rather say it's not completely useless rather than saying it's useful. :P
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: I've put the manifest in /casper/ in the CD image; publishing it next to the image is a bit fiddly but I'll get to that eventually
[07:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: heh, yeah
[07:14] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[07:15] <cartman> OddAbe19: any bug #?
[07:15] <Kamion> Mithrandir: still, making the gtk frontend not crash / look crap on the stuff in src/test/ was cause for quite a few improvements there
[07:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have no problems believing that.
[07:17] <OddAbe19> cartman, i can't dig one off the top of my head, but it was a pretty common bug preventing Gnome login discussed on ubuntuforums.org
[07:17] <OddAbe19> resetting of .ICEAuthority to root
[07:17] <mjg59> thom: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/hotkeys.list
[07:18] <cartman> OddAbe19: hmm is k3b running as root?
[07:18] <OddAbe19> that was the only way to fix it was by running it in root terminal, not sudo
[07:18] <OddAbe19> i never experienced it myself
[07:18] <cartman> OddAbe19: well it explains. why run it through sudo?
[07:18] <cartman> 2.6.9+ can burn cd without root
[07:19] <OddAbe19> running it through sudo or as user would reset it
[07:19] <OddAbe19> this was a warty problem
[07:19] <OddAbe19> 2.6.8-1
[07:19] <thully> hi - does anyone know which build of the hoary live CD works best at this point?
[07:19] <cartman> OddAbe19: yes kdeinit will change perms of .ICEAuthority when running as root
[07:20] <OddAbe19> cartman, i was just wondering if it was fixed in warty yet, because i've been working on a deb for k3b for warty users
[07:20] <OddAbe19> to try to prevent that
[07:20] <cartman> OddAbe19: you could hack kdeinit but I don't think it would be good
[07:20] <OddAbe19> cartman, i don't think you get where i'm coming from, i dont have the problem, i'm trying to find a solution for the problem for warty users
[07:21] <OddAbe19> lol
[07:21] <Kamion> live CDs built, let me check them over
[07:21] <cartman> so I say solution is to hack kdeinit
[07:21] <OddAbe19> so they can log in after using k3b
[07:21] <thully> the latest build doesn't work
[07:21] <OddAbe19> cartman, i didn't think of that
[07:21] <Kamion> all live CDs built with 2.6.10-5 across the board
[07:21] <OddAbe19> i shall try that next deb i build and test
[07:21] <Kamion> thully: try the latest build that *just* appeared :-)
[07:22] <cartman> OddAbe19: void init_kdeinit_socket() is your guy
[07:22] <Kamion> sorry for the big downloads - live CD's in a lot of flux right now so you might want to talk to one of us before wasting time downloading
[07:22] <Kamion> fabbione: baton is yours
[07:22] <OddAbe19> thanks, i'll work on it in a few hours, i have to get to class soon
[07:22] <cartman> OddAbe19: kdelibs/kinit/kinit.cpp btw
[07:23] <OddAbe19> yeah, i got it
[07:23] <OddAbe19> thanks
[07:23] <cartman> np
[07:23] <thully> Kamion: I downloaded one about2 hrs ago - is there a newer one?
[07:23] <Kamion> thully: 18:21 < Kamion> live CDs built, let me check them over
[07:23] <azeem> OddAbe19: is your nick your gnupg id?
[07:23] <Kamion> i.e. yes
[07:23] <OddAbe19> i don't have a gnupg id
[07:24] <azeem> oh :)
[07:24] <Kamion> this one actually has consistent kernel versions so might stand a chance
[07:24] <Riddell> OddAbe19: make sure you comment on the buzilla entry if you fix it
[07:24] <OddAbe19> i do my builds as a hobby
[07:24] <OddAbe19> and distribute them if people are interested
[07:24] <OddAbe19> thats it
[07:24] <OddAbe19> Riddell, i will
[07:24] <cartman> Riddell: its not a fix I guess
[07:24] <OddAbe19> not really
[07:25] <thully> OK - looks newer than what I have
[07:25] <thully> thanks a lot
[07:25] <cartman> Riddell: kinit supposed to change perms. on .ICEAuthority
[07:25] <cartman> security purposes
[07:25] <OddAbe19> it's just an kinit error on k3b and gnome in warty
[07:25] <OddAbe19> yeppers
[07:25] <OddAbe19> lots of complaints from warty users on ubuntuforums about it
[07:25] <Riddell> cartman: it does have the nasty side effect of sometimes breaking KDE for all the other users though
[07:25] <Riddell> well, more than KDE I guess
[07:26] <cartman> Riddell: don't think it would be accepted in upstream though
[07:26] <Riddell> cartman: I'll commit it, nobody monitors kdelibs anyway :)
[07:26] <cartman> Riddell: lol you wish
[07:27] <OddAbe19> probably not, it is a security problem after hacking the library
[07:27] <cartman> dirk I'm sure watching kdelibs
[07:27] <cartman> :)
[07:27] <lamont> Kamion: the truely sick can mount the compressed fs and dpkg -l in that...
[07:30] <sladen> who knows about  update-initrd  ?  It's not 2.6 compilant (fails because modules are named \.ko not \.o), and also seems to be part of discover1 ?
[07:30] <Kamion> what's still using that, if anything?
[07:32] <pitti> elmo: can we have a new mail address language-packs@ubuntu.com which is directed to me?
[07:32] <pitti> elmo: I would like to set the new gpg key (for autobuilds) to this email address
[07:33] <metalikop> thx for fixing gaim :)
[07:34] <Mithrandir> np
[07:34] <metalikop> You guys have a plan to add gnome-bluetooth support (or multisync-evolution)?
[07:35] <crimsun> ugh, not that again.
[07:35] <metalikop> heh
[07:35] <OddAbe19> lol
[07:35] <metalikop> uh oh
[07:36] <azeem> metalikop: what's the problem with multisync-evolution?
[07:37] <metalikop> libmultisync-plugin-evolution: Depends: libedata-book1.2-0 (>=1.1.1) but it is not installable Depends: libedata-cal1.2-0 (>=1.1.1) but it is not installable
[07:38] <mjg59> metalikop: That sounds like it's the old Evolution plugin
[07:38] <mjg59> Hoary ought to have one for Evolution 2
[07:38] <metalikop> unfortunately I can't find one
[07:38] <azeem> nah 1.2 are the hoary e-d-s libs
[07:39] <azeem> or so I thought
[07:39] <seb128> perhaps the soname have changed
[07:40] <azeem> ah, yeah
[07:40] <seb128> and I'm uploading a new version with some new soname changes in a few min ...
[07:40] <azeem> it's 1.2-1 now
[07:40] <metalikop> very nice ;)
[07:40] <metalikop> so why the "not that again" regarding gnome-bluetooth
[07:40] <seb128> ?
[07:40] <azeem> metalikop: it was about that guy parting all the time
[07:40] <metalikop> oh oh
[07:40] <azeem> not about gnome-bluetooth (or so I think)
[07:41] <metalikop> acceptable.
[07:43] <Kamion> elmo: is there any value in my asking you to sync cdebconf from incoming only to immediately branch it into cdebconf 0.74ubuntu1? I guess having it in the morgue might help with future merges?
[07:53] <elmo> that'd be the only value I can think of, yeah
[08:00] <lamont> Kamion: iso's done, I assume?
[08:01] <Kamion> lamont: yes
[08:12] <mdz> lamont: when you get back, please do an experiment to see how much larger the image gets if you compress with 1k blocks rather than 64k
[08:12] <mdz> I imagine it's a lot, but that should make it much more rsyncable
[08:14] <trukulo> Mithrandir, new video uploaded
[08:15] <trukulo> can you tell me the link?
[08:17] <Kamion> elmo: ok, please sync cdebconf_0.74 from incoming then, please
[08:18] <Mithrandir> trukulo: http://tracker.err.no/mshuttleworth_small.avi.torrent
[08:19] <sivang> Mithrandir: torrents are up already?
[08:19] <Mithrandir> sivang: two are
[08:19] <trukulo> updated
[08:19] <Mithrandir> mako_small and mshuttleworth_small
[08:20] <mako> who are you calling small?
[08:20] <trukulo> you have small one
[08:20] <Mithrandir> s/te/the/
[08:20] <sivang> Mithrandir: ok, going to download.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> it's idling at 2% usage.
[08:21] <sivang> Mithrandir: downlaoding
[08:21] <sivang> 94kbs
[08:21] <sivang> wow
[08:22] <trukulo> mako, what about quality? is it good?
[08:22] <Mithrandir> ok, I'm up to 2.5% usage now :P
[08:22] <fabbione> Mithrandir: did you finish to get all the stuff for the torrents?
[08:23] <sivang> so nice to have those, just to get reminded of the fun that was in mataro :)
[08:23] <sivang> Mithrandir: you have some nice upstream there, 100Kbs ?
[08:23] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I have two of them, so still missing a large bunch.
[08:23] <trukulo> no fabbione 
[08:23] <trukulo> it's VERY SLOW
[08:23] <fabbione> oh ok
[08:23] <trukulo> only two videos, low quality, atm
[08:24] <Mithrandir> sivang: yeah, academic 100Mbit to my machine.  Would like to have gbit, but I don't.
[08:24] <sivang> Mithrandir: cool
[08:24] <Mithrandir> trukulo: you saw my mail about the big mako dropping after 18M?
[08:24] <trukulo> Mithrandir, yes
[08:24] <trukulo> i answered it, i think
[08:24] <sivang> Mithrandir: it's stressing my 1.5Mbit /128kb upstream :)
[08:24] <trukulo> i said i'll resume when others finished
[08:24] <sivang> mako: you client must be rining you with colors :)
[08:24] <trukulo> fabbio is very ugly
[08:25] <sivang> *rining, even
[08:25] <sivang> erghgh
[08:25] <sivang> ringing
[08:25] <Mithrandir> trukulo: ok, that's fine.
[08:31] <Treenaks> GREAT
[08:31] <Treenaks> wireless link monitor is gone
[08:32] <smurfix> Treenaks: isn't it in another package now?
[08:32] <Treenaks> smurfix: it's not in the default set of gnome applets antmore
[08:33] <mako> Mithrandir: yeah.. i got to that point too.. i was trying to get bigmako too
[08:34] <Mithrandir> mako: trukulo's uplink is slow, so it takes me half a day to get each of those.  I'm putting them online when they're complete.
[08:34] <smurfix> Treenaks: right. From the gnome-applets changelog.Debian:    - remove wireless applet (replaced by gnome-netstatus)
[08:35] <Treenaks> smurfix: yes, the applet got replaced on my bar
[08:35] <Treenaks> smurfix: but I don't see the link quality part...
[08:36] <Treenaks> oh wait.. it does... in some weird non-obvious way
[08:43] <mako> Mithrandir: nice :)
[08:43] <mako> this is actually pretty educational for me
[08:43] <mako> to watch myself give a talk
[08:45] <trukulo> it's not my uplink :) god thanks
[08:45] <trukulo> it's a friend's one
[08:45] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: any new ones online? :)
[08:45] <trukulo> mark's one is online
[08:45] <Treenaks> hm..
[08:45] <Treenaks> oh wait
[08:45] <Treenaks> I have the _big ones
[08:45] <Treenaks> those will probably take some more time
[08:45] <trukulo> you have the ENTIRE big ones?
[08:46] <Treenaks> trukulo: no, just the .torrents
[08:46] <trukulo> they are broken now
[08:46] <trukulo> look this
[08:46] <Treenaks> trukulo: if I had the entire _big ones I'd seed them at 100mbit :)
[08:46] <trukulo> www.badopi.org/videos
[08:46] <trukulo> here are the new (valid) ones
[08:46] <trukulo> only two atm
[08:46] <Treenaks> trukulo: I got my torrents direct from mithrandir's site
[08:46] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: the mshuttleworth_small
[08:47] <trukulo> Treenaks, he only has 2
[08:47] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: it's the same torrens.
[08:47] <Mithrandir> +t
[08:47] <trukulo> i'm remotely uploading the .avi
[08:47] <Treenaks> this seems to work..
[08:48] <Treenaks> I'll be seeding in ~14 minutes
[08:49] <Treenaks> trukulo: wow, what's the codec?
[08:49] <trukulo> avc divx
[08:49] <trukulo> i think
[08:49] <elmo> oh!
[08:49] <elmo> graphviz got CPLed
[08:50] <azeem> \o/
[08:51] <Kamion> CPL?
[08:52] <mako> trukulo: once these are all being seeded quickly, i'll announce them on ubuntu-news
[08:52] <trukulo> mako, perfect :)
[08:52] <mako> Mithrandir, trukulo: let me know
[08:52] <trukulo> ok
[08:53] <trukulo> i'll tell you when we have all of them
[08:53] <trukulo> but i think that would take 3 o 4 days
[08:53] <mako> that's cool
[08:53] <trukulo> small ones perhaps tomorrow
[08:56] <mako> the small ones look fine
[08:57] <mako> i just watched babymako
[08:58] <trukulo> :)
[08:58] <trukulo> i didn't see big ones
[08:59] <trukulo> but small one are: 400x320
[08:59] <trukulo> and big ones: 720x576
[09:01] <Treenaks> trukulo: another seed for mshuttleworth_small has arrived:)
[09:01] <trukulo> :) cool
[09:09] <trukulo> sabdfl, you have your video online :)

[09:09] <mdz> GAH
[09:09] <mdz> lamont: amd64 live image is b0rked
[09:09] <mdz> lamont: it has no /var
[09:10] <trukulo> :)
[09:10] <trukulo> sabdfl,  http://tracker.err.no/mshuttleworth_small.avi.torrent
[09:11] <trukulo> we have only two videos, uploading the others with a VERY slow uplink
[09:12] <mdz> trukulo: where are these from?
[09:13] <mdz> from Mataro?
[09:13] <trukulo> yes
[09:13] <trukulo> from barcelona, badopi talks
[09:13] <mdz> lamont: please find out how this happened and add a sanity check of some sort
[09:16] <mdz> oh, the LUG
[09:16] <Kamion> elmo: should I just upload that gpgv-udeb patch to Ubuntu?
[09:16] <trukulo> yes
[09:17] <mdz> I suppose I don't need to download the video, since I was there :-)
[09:17] <trukulo> :) yes
[09:17] <trukulo> i was there too, presenting the talkers
[09:18] <trukulo> but no one let me listen the talks
[09:18] <trukulo> so i have to download and see them
[09:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: you could do my uni a favor and download it to generate traffic. :P
[09:18] <mdz> Kamion: are you downloading powerpc, then?
[09:22] <ChrisH> Unfortunately I missed today's CC meeting. The backlog dealt with MOTU coordination. Does anyone have more information at hand?
[09:22] <Kamion> mdz: just started
[09:23] <azeem> ChrisH: congrats
[09:23] <mdz> Kamion: we'll need a new one with casper 0.6 for amd64 anyway
[09:23] <ChrisH> azeem: Thanks. :) I assume you read debian-project...
[09:23] <sivang> ChrisH: here you are again
[09:24] <sivang> !
[09:24] <Kamion> mdz: yay :-/ whenabouts?
[09:24] <sivang> finally
[09:24] <mdz> ChrisH: the complete log for the meeting should be available from mako shortly, if not already
[09:24] <mdz> Kamion: uploaded already
[09:24] <ChrisH> sivang: Yes, sorry. It's my wife's anniversary today and I promised to stay offline.
[09:24] <mdz> Kamion: modprobe ext2 || true
[09:24] <sivang> ChrisH: ah sorry :-/
[09:24] <zul> ChrisH: shesh where are your priorities ;)
[09:24] <ChrisH> mdz: Yes, already read them. Just wondered what the MOTU team lead job's supposed to be.
[09:24] <ogra> heh
[09:24] <elmo> Kamion: yes
[09:24] <ChrisH> zul: Uh... I better don't tell that to my wife. ;)
[09:25] <elmo> kamion: CPL == same license as postfix
[09:25] <mdz> ChrisH: should be clear from the meeting, but at this point, primarily approving new people for upload privileges to universe
[09:25] <mdz> Kamion: /var/log/debian-installer is huge
[09:25] <ChrisH> mdz: So you are thinking of the coordination of "AMs" (if I may use that Debian term)?
[09:25] <Mithrandir> elmo: yay! :)
[09:25] <mdz> Kamion: but some bits of it are useful for the live CD
[09:26] <mdz> Kamion: can we arrange something so that we get, say, only hardware-summary.gz and syslog.gz ?
[09:26] <sivang> ChrisH: since you have experience with debian mentors, this seems fit :)
[09:26] <mdz> Kamion: (they probably ought to be compressed in all cases anyway)
[09:26] <mdz> elmo: will there be a proper release with the new license in time for hoary?
[09:26] <mdz> elmo: graphviz->main would be excellent
[09:27] <ChrisH> sivang: Sounded very interesting so far. I wish I could have placed my dumb questions during the -meeting.
[09:27] <Kamion> mdz: that's prebaseconfig/prebaseconfig.d/93save-install-log
[09:27] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I know
[09:27] <mdz> Kamion: should I hack it up to check some environment variable or something?
[09:27] <Kamion> for what?
[09:27] <magnon> mdz, aren't you doing security stuff on ubuntu?
[09:27] <mdz> Kamion: it wastes a huge amount of space on the live CD snapshot
[09:27] <Kamion> you could just rm the bits you don't want after it's done ...
[09:27] <mdz> Kamion: where things like templates.dat are not very interesting
[09:28] <mdz> Kamion: it's too late once they've been written
[09:28] <elmo> mdz: it'd be a big version hike, so we'd have to bend the rules, but 2.0 is available from the website
[09:28] <Kamion> mdz: hm, ok, file a bug and let me think about it ...
[09:28] <mdz> magnon: some, but Martin Pitt (pitti) has primary responsibility for security
[09:28] <Mithrandir> elmo, mdz: I could take a look at the new graphviz now if you'd like me to.
[09:29] <sivang> ChrisH: you might also want to coordinate with haggai as he is also considered for this lead role of MOTU.
[09:30] <sivang> (summing up what I saw during the CC meeting :)
[09:30] <ChrisH> sivang: yes, that's right
[09:30] <mdz> Mithrandir: sure
[09:32] <Kamion> mdz: shall I kick off a live CD build now, then?
[09:33] <mdz> Kamion: no point until lamont fixes the cloop image
[09:33] <mdz> and he said he was disappearing for 2-3 hours(?)
[09:33] <Kamion> oh, and casper 0.6 binaries aren't up yet
[09:34] <elmo> mdz was being a muppet with the distro line ;)
[09:34] <elmo> so casper only just got in source-wise
[09:37] <mdz> elmo: distro line?
[09:38] <elmo> Distribution: unstable
[09:38] <Kamion> mdz: TBH I'm really thinking that duplicating the small bits of prebaseconfig that you actually need would be better than removing the large bits of prebaseconfig that you don't need in the current very fragile way; rebooting into base-config and pivoting into a live CD are totally different use cases and I think they deserve different code
[09:39] <mdz> Kamion: I want locale config, I want keyboard config, I want timezone config, I want network config
[09:39] <mdz> I do not want to duplicate all that code
[09:40] <Kamion> that is why casper.d should exist
[09:41] <Kamion> but the stuff in prebaseconfig is just not appropriate
[09:41] <Kamion> and I don't like casper running around rming stuff whose name is not guaranteed, and I don't think it makes logical sense to split prebaseconfig
[09:42] <mdz> I agree that the current approach of rming is far from ideal
[09:43] <mdz> so you think that things like 05localeconfig should be duplicated in casper.d by whichever module creates them?
[09:43] <Mithrandir> how about just keeping what you want and removing everything else?
[09:43] <mdz> Mithrandir: that has the same problems
[09:43] <Kamion> yes, unless the assumptions inherent in any split are very carefully documented
[09:44] <Kamion> both ordering and forward/reverse dependencies
[09:44] <mdz> I don't even know which udebs create those files
[09:45] <Kamion> localechooser, kbd-chooser, (tzsetup-udeb sort of assuming it works in that environment which it may not), netcfg
[09:46] <Kamion> tzsetup-udeb doesn't have a prebaseconfig script though
[09:48] <mdz> are those generally created at runtime, or shipped in the udeb?
[09:50] <Kamion> shipped in the udeb; there used to be a couple of things that created a prebaseconfig script at runtime, but netcfg got fixed to not do that any more
[09:50] <Kamion> hw-detect still fiddles with its prebaseconfig at runtime I think
[09:50] <Kamion> yeah, it does, for de4x5 blacklisting and pcmcia
[09:52] <mdz> ok, so hopefully just a handful of symlinks in the udebs, and modify hw-detect
[09:52] <Kamion> a symlink likewise
[09:52] <mdz> but to be created at runtime
[09:52] <Kamion> the file is shipped in the udeb, it gets appended to at run-time
[09:52] <mdz> oh
[09:53] <Kamion> sorry, unclear
[09:53] <mdz> what was the magic recipe to eject the CD during boot on powerpc again?
[09:53] <mdz> I thought it was holding down the left mouse button, but that doesn't work for me
[09:54] <Kamion> didn't know there was one, unless I ran across it by accident and forgot about it
[09:55] <Kamion> mdz: try cmd-opt-o-f and then 'eject cd'
[09:55] <mdz> Sep 28 17:31:45 <Kamion>        mdz: one rumour claims holding down the left mouse button during boot also ejects the CD ...
[09:55] <mdz> Sep 28 18:19:10 <Kamion>        mdz: incidentally that hold-down-left-mouse-button-during-boot-to-eject-CD trick worked for me too
[09:55] <Kamion> hm, ok
[09:55] <mdz> Kamion: what are cmd and opt on a us layout keyboard?
[09:55] <Kamion> obviously I forgot about it :)
[09:55] <amu> pressing mouse after warm-start is one  
[09:55] <Kamion> do you have an apple key?
[09:55] <mdz> no
[09:55] <Kamion> uh
[09:55] <mdz> I have a 104-key keyboard
[09:55] <Kamion> command is normally apple, option is alt
[09:55] <mdz> maybe windows = apple
[09:55] <Mithrandir> yeah
[09:55] <Kamion> I don't know what to do if you don't have an apple key
[09:56] <Mithrandir> at least windows = apple
[09:56] <Mithrandir> uhm, apple = winows.
[09:56] <Kamion> mdz: that trick probably only works with an ADB mouse
[09:56] <Mithrandir> use a paperclip to eject the cd, then?
[09:57] <Kamion> I haven't disassembled OF's mac-boot command yet, though
[09:57] <Kamion> mdz: why's it urgent to eject it during boot?
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: because I'm tired of waiting for the entire system to boot so that I can type 'eject' and reboot it
[10:02] <mdz> I keep it turned off, generally
[10:02] <Kamion> heh, ok
[10:02] <mdz> Mithrandir: they cleverly block the eject button and hole with a bracket
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion: anyway, powerpc is not entirely a success, but worthwhile for you to download I think
[10:03] <mdz> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg hangs
[10:03] <Kamion> mdz: ok, 25% through
[10:03] <mdz> I think it might be pissed at being already running under debconf?
[10:03] <Kamion> ETA a couple of hours, so I'm off for the evening
[10:03] <mdz> (cdebconf, anyway)
[10:03] <Kamion> very possible; don't you disconnect from cdebconf?
[10:03] <mdz> can the debconf confmodule talk to cdebconf?
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion: this happens while the progress bar is still displayed
[10:03] <Kamion> yes, theoretically
[10:04] <Kamion> sort of
[10:04] <Kamion> they speak the same protocol (modulo extensions) over stdio
[10:04] <mdz> you'll probably want to comment out the dpkg-reconfigure for your test
[10:04] <Kamion> but the xserver-xorg templates will not be registered with cdebconf
[10:04] <Mithrandir> use the trick which is used when calling debootstrap and redirect stdout/stdin?
[10:04] <mdz> the hostname prompt turns out to be a convenient spot to switch over and fix stuff
[10:04] <mdz> so we shouldn't suppress that quite yet :-)
[10:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not if you *want* the question to be asked :)
[10:05] <Kamion> mdz: for xserver-xorg, I'd recommend disconnecting from cdebconf instead
[10:05] <Kamion> hm, maybe not
[10:05] <mdz> Kamion: will that break the progress bar?
[10:05] <Kamion> tough problem
[10:06] <Kamion> if debconf actually asks the question, then it will probably break because it doesn't understand TERM=bterm
[10:06] <Kamion> you could register the xserver-xorg templates with cdebconf?
[10:06] <mdz> why doesn't it?
[10:06] <Kamion> because it doesn't need to ...
[10:06] <Kamion> also the UI looks slightly different
[10:07] <mdz> would -fnoninteractive help, or no?
[10:07] <mdz> presumably wouldn't fix the template situation
[10:07] <Kamion> noninteractive still talks to the database
[10:07] <Kamion> it would probably help providing that you disconnected
[10:07] <mdz> db_stop?
[10:08] <Kamion> no, db_stop can't fix up fds
[10:08] <Kamion> see rescue-mode.postinst
[10:08] <Kamion> disconnect_run and the stuff down near the bottom that sets OLD_*
[10:08] <Kamion> grotty but it works :)
[10:09] <mdz> where do $OLD_STDOUT etc. come from?
[10:09] <mdz> oh, set below
[10:09] <Kamion> yep
[10:09] <Kamion> the env -i is needed to unset various debconf-specific environment variables
[10:10] <Kamion> it might also be possible to unset them individually; baseconfig-udeb takes that approach
[10:10] <mdz> registering the templates with cdebconf starts to sound appealing
[10:10] <Kamion> I'd rather that cdebconf exported some way to do this, but I haven't been able to see how
[10:10] <mdz> is it permissible to ask a question in the middle of a progress bar anyway?
[10:10] <Kamion> depends; do you want to support people running dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg in the live filesystem?
[10:10] <mdz> yes
[10:11] <Kamion> you'd have to mess about with debconf-copydb to make that work then, if you had the questions asked by cdebconf
[10:11] <Kamion> yes, questions can be asked (by cdebconf) in the middle of a progress bar
[10:11] <Kamion> hw-detect does that
[10:11] <Kamion> and prebaseconfig
[10:11] <mdz> it's less important that dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg have the probed values
[10:11] <Kamion> debconf-copydb is *relatively* straightforward, if runic
[10:12] <mdz> sounds like it needs for the databases to be defined in the config file
[10:12] <Kamion> if you run into any missing features in cdebconf, let me know
[10:12] <Kamion> nah, you can do that on the command line like base-config does
[10:12] <mdz> ah
[10:13] <Kamion> it's fairly important to get cdebconf up to feature-parity with debconf, because long-term it would be good to be able to replace debconf with cdebconf
[10:13] <mdz> I suppose I should just disable the dpkg-reconfigure for now
[10:13] <Kamion> at least, maybe :)
[10:13] <mdz> to get back to a working (console-mode) live CD
[10:13] <Kamion>         debconf-copydb d-i configdb -c Name:d-i -c Driver:File \
[10:13] <Kamion>                 -c Filename:$DI_DB \
[10:13] <Kamion>                 --pattern='^(mirror/http/proxy|mirror/suite|debian-installer/keymap|debian-installer/country|debian-installer/language|debian-installer/only-os)$'
[10:14] <mdz> uploaded casper 0.7 with that change
[10:15] <mdz> (disabling)
[10:15] <mdz> I'll give copydb a try later
[10:16] <Kamion> debconf-loadtemplate /target/var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg.templates; chroot /target dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg; debconf-copydb configdb target -c Name:target -c Driver:File -c Filename:/target/var/cache/debconf/config.dat --pattern='^xserver-xorg/.*'
[10:16] <Kamion> something like that ought to work
[10:16] <Kamion> although you might have to chroot to run debconf-copydb; I can't remember if cdebconf's version can safely write to debconf's files
[10:16] <Kamion> probably can
[10:17] <Kamion> oh, debconf-loadtemplate xserver-xorg /target/var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg.templates, but anyway
[10:18] <mdz> Kamion: we're already pivoted into /target by the time this runs
[10:18] <Kamion> uh, and cdebconf survived that?
[10:18] <mdz> yeah, works great
[10:19] <Kamion> surprising; it won't be able to save
[10:19] <mdz> it doesn't get a chance :-)
[10:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: why shouldn't it work?
[10:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no /var/lib/cdebconf
[10:19] <mdz> we increment the progress bar, and then it gets killed by init
[10:19] <Kamion> no /usr/lib/cdebconf/*/*.so, come to that
[10:19] <Mithrandir> so?  They're already in memory by then.
[10:19] <mdz> I guess that makes debconf-copydb, er, awkward
[10:19] <Kamion> mdz: yes ...
[10:20] <mdz> so we're back to disconnect_run
[10:20] <Kamion> can you dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg before pivoting?
[10:20] <mdz> I suppose it could be done
[10:20] <mdz> via chroot
[10:20] <Kamion> disconnect_run still leaves you with the "what does the UI look like if xserver-xorg really *has* to ask a question?" problem
[10:20] <Kamion> and unfortunately I fear the answer is "dreadful"
[10:21] <mdz> is it that hard to provide a terminfo file for bterm?
[10:21] <Kamion> probably not, but it's still using totally different UI code and therefore looks rather different
[10:22] <mdz> I could write a precasper.d script to do the chroot/dpkg-reconfigure before pivoting
[10:22] <Kamion> it's probably better than it used to be because a UTF-8 locale will exist in the live filesystem; that wasn't the case when I last tried baseconfig-udeb (before warty)
[10:38] <thully> is there any plans for more array CDs?  The schedule calls for about 1 every 2 weeks, yet only 2 have been made the entire development schedule.
[10:39] <sladen> thully: pester Kamion
[10:42] <Kamion> there are, but it kind of requires the archive to work :-)
[10:42] <Kamion> the windows of installability have been quite narrow at times
[10:43] <Kamion> for warty, we only started doing sounder CDs around the time of the upstream version freeze, so I'm not too worried
[10:44] <thully> yes - just learned that - I tried installing hoary from the daily build and I had to do lots of funky things to get a working install
[10:44] <Kamion> I'm not sure that I have a copy of Sounder CD 1 any more, but Sounder CD 2 was 29 June
[10:44] <Kamion> today's daily?
[10:46] <thully> yes - it bombed out to a command prompt without installing anything but base, and then after I did an "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" something funky w/udev and hal happened and the instalslowed to a crawl until I killed those things
[10:47] <Kamion> oh, ubuntu-desktop was broken today (do you mean a command prompt, or aptitude?)
[10:47] <lamont_r> mdz: amd64 fsimg has a 43MB /var
[10:47] <Kamion> I didn't know about the udev problem
[10:48] <Kamion> thully: oh, did the move of the timezone question to the first stage fix that long-standing timezone bug of yours?
[10:49] <thully> Haven't checked - my PC is currently in a state of chaos as I've been testing many OSes on it - I haven't even set my clock correctly in a while :)
[10:50] <lamont_r> Kamion: are the livecd links still pointing to yesterday???
[10:50] <Kamion> lamont_r: which ones?
[10:50] <lamont_r> Kamion: nm.  fat finger
[10:50] <lamont_r> s
[10:51] <lamont_r> mdz about?
[10:52] <sivang> anybody know pitti's canonical address and can answer me in private so not to get his email harvested by bot log readers?
[10:52] <Kamion> the addresses are of the form firstname.lastname@
[10:52] <thully> I don't know if I'm quite up to this "unstable" thing - I just don't have the time for testing at the moment
[10:52] <azeem> bot log readers?
[10:53] <thully> One question - regarding Thunderbird 1.0, is Ubuntu taking the same stance as Debian regarding the whole trademark issue?
[10:54] <thully> since that's the only thing holding up 1.0 being in unstable
[10:54] <mdz> lamont_r: yes
[10:55] <Mithrandir> thully: what trademark issue?  That we're not shipping the trademarked icons and stuff?
[10:55] <mdz> potpal:[~/live]  sudo mount -o loop hoary-live-amd64.iso /mnt
[10:55] <mdz> Password:
[10:55] <mdz> potpal:[~/live]  sudo losetup /dev/cloop0 /mnt/casper/filesystem.cloop
[10:55] <mdz> potpal:[~/live]  sudo mount /dev/cloop0 /mnt
[10:55] <mdz> mount: block device /dev/cloop0 is write-protected, mounting read-only
[10:55] <mdz> potpal:[~/live]  ls /mnt
[10:55] <mdz> bin   dev  home    initrd.img  lib32  lost+found  mnt  proc  sbin  sys  usr
[10:55] <mdz> boot  etc  initrd  lib         lib64  media       opt  root  srv   tmp
[10:55] <mdz> lamont: ^^^
[10:55] <thully> that they can't use the name "Mozilla Thunderbird"
[10:55] <Mithrandir> thully: hm, can you give me any references on that?
[10:55] <azeem> Mithrandir: lwn
[10:56] <azeem> has a feature on it
[10:56] <Kamion> is that really a Debian stance or something that one person said on a Debian list?
[10:56] <thully> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=284560
[10:56] <thully> Well, it's keeping 1.0 out of debian at the moment - but there are unofficial packages and the unofficial Ubuntu backports for Warty have Thunderbird 1.0 included
[10:57] <lamont_r> bin   etc     initrd.img  lib64       mnt   root  sys  var
[10:57] <lamont_r> boot  home    lib         lost+found  opt   sbin  tmp  vmlinuz
[10:57] <lamont_r> dev   initrd  lib32       media       proc  srv   usr
[10:57] <Mithrandir> well, I don't see why this is an issue for 1.0 vs 0.9
[10:58] <mdz> c5fd3f7995bb2479095200f951654c17  hoary-live-amd64.iso
[10:58] <mdz> 9ae025da3e122ec6ef8942e4e24c946e  /mnt/casper/filesystem.cloop
[10:58] <lamont_r> 9ae025da3e122ec6ef8942e4e24c946e  livecd-current.cloop
[10:59] <mdz> lamont_r: are you looking through cloop?
[10:59] <lamont_r> mdz: so either cloop trashed things, or something is deleting /var... :-(
[10:59] <lamont_r> no - loopback on fsimg
[10:59] <mdz> look through cloop
[10:59] <lamont_r> no cloop module on that system
[10:59] <mdz> ELMO
[10:59] <lamont_r> well, I think not... how do I tell it to?
[10:59] <thully> well - maybe Ubuntu should make a 1.0 package separately from debian - based off one of the unofficial builds
[10:59] <lamont_r> that is, is it just losetup, or does it need something more?
[10:59] <Kamion> we already have a 1.0 package
[11:00] <mdz> lamont: scroll back about 30 lines
[11:00] <Kamion> I don't see how deliberate separation helps us in the least
[11:00] <thully> So - it's held up for the same reasons it's held up in debian?
[11:00] <Kamion>    mozilla-thunderbird_1.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[11:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I uploaded that earlier today.
[11:00] <Kamion> doesn't look held up to me
[11:00] <mdz> it's not "held up"
[11:00] <mdz> it's in hoary
[11:00] <mdz> so this entire discussion is pointless
[11:00] <thully> it is - well, that's new
[11:01] <lamont_r>  /dev/cloop0 - no such file
[11:01] <mdz> lamont: sudo modprobe cloop
[11:01] <lamont_r> mdz: this is an elmo kernel. what modules?
[11:01] <Kamion> thully: yes, as Mithrandir said. :)
[11:01] <mdz> E L M O 
[11:01] <lamont_r>  modprobe cloop
[11:01] <lamont_r> FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.8.1/modules.dep: No such file or directory
[11:01] <thully> I see - things happen fast
[11:01] <mdz> lamont: if anything, create_compressed_fs is fucking up
[11:01] <Kamion> thully: we had nobody looking after m-t for a while; at the last hoary goals meeting, Mithrandir volunteered to give it some love
[11:02] <mdz> I'm doing my test using cloop on i386, which is known to not be horribly broken
[11:02] <lamont_r> mdz: let me rebuild it with the hack job instead and see what that does for us.
[11:02] <Mithrandir> thully: I think we can ignore it, it shouldn't be any bigger problem with 0.9 rather than 1.0.
[11:02] <lamont_r> failing that, maybe compressing on i386 will be better
[11:02] <mdz> lamont: I doubt it will differ in the slightest
[11:02] <Kamion> AFAICS the only reason that's keeping 1.0 out of Debian is that the maintainer wants to deal with both problems at the same time
[11:02] <sivang> mdz,Kamion : all this test talk relates for the live cd and the gui installer? :)
[11:02] <Kamion> and I guess 1.0 is a good point at which to do so
[11:02] <mdz> sivang: what gui installer?
[11:02] <Kamion> sivang: not the GUI installer
[11:03] <Kamion> keep up :-)
[11:03] <mdz> sivang: I thought you were going to write the gui installer :-)
[11:04] <sivang> mdz: heheh :)
[11:05] <sivang> mdz: dreams dreams, it's amazing how one can be stupid with what he claims when he has not a clue of it :-/
[11:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah; tackling both problems at the same time might be fine, but I think we can do that later.
[11:05] <Kamion> mdz: hm, would you like to have a background title on the live CD's cdebconf screens saying "Ubuntu Live CD", or something like that?
[11:05] <sivang> mdz:  :)
[11:05] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[11:05] <mdz> Kamion: that reminds me, I should also fix its menu item
[11:05] <Kamion> I'd like that for rescue mode, so I think I'll try to come up with a general interface for that in cdebconf
[11:06] <pasc> ~..
[11:06] <mdz> Kamion: currently I have Description: Run a "live" preinstalled system from read-only media
[11:06] <lamont_r> mdz: was amd64 the only borked cloop?
[11:06] <mdz> Kamion: which makes a reasonable description, but not a menu item
[11:06] <mdz> Kamion: how do I override it?
[11:07] <mdz> lamont_r: not sure
[11:07] <Kamion> mdz: create a debian-installer/casper-udeb/title template, type text, with the description you want as the menu item
[11:08] <Kamion> (it should really be main-menu/title/casper-udeb or something, but that won't be changing just yet)
[11:08] <mdz> Kamion: what would be a good menu item name?
[11:08] <Kamion> describe the action, so "Enter live filesystem" maybe?
[11:08] <mdz> s/filesystem/something else/
[11:09] <mdz> 'session' maybe
[11:09] <Kamion> Enter live preinstalled system
[11:09] <mdz> Kamion: I just put this in my templates file?
[11:10] <Kamion> yes
[11:10] <lamont_r> mdz: I'd bet on it.
[11:10] <Kamion> at the top is conventional
[11:10] <mdz> lamont_r: oh, you found a problem?
[11:10] <lamont_r> no - it's just that it's not any diff from the other machines, other than being 64 bit
[11:11] <Mithrandir> lamont_r, mdz: what's the problem?  cloop-utils still broken on amd64?
[11:11] <mdz> Kamion: oh, btw, I get a ton of garbage output overwriting the cdebconf dialog when casper-udeb is unpacked
[11:11] <mdz> seems to have to do twith the po file that amu gave m e
[11:11] <mdz> me
[11:12] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: the fsimg looks good, but cloop is kinda missing /var
[11:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: it succeeds, but the result is apparently not optimal
[11:12] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: what do you mean, missing /var?
[11:12] <lamont_r> see scrollback
[11:13] <lamont_r> ls in / does not show /var
[11:13] <Mithrandir> that's fairly crackful.
[11:13] <lamont_r> at least according to mdz - and he has the same .cloop file that I do
[11:13] <mdz> er
[11:13] <mdz> lamont_r: i386 is fucked in exactly the same way
[11:13] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: s/fairly//
[11:13] <lamont_r> WTF
[11:13] <Mithrandir> is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/hoary-live-amd64.iso the right one?
[11:14] <lamont_r> yep
[11:14] <mdz> lamont_r: EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
[11:14] <mdz> lamont_r: might have something to do with it
[11:14] <mdz> lamont_r: in both cases
[11:15] <mdz> lamont_r: did you remember to unmount it before creating the cloop file?
[11:15] <lamont_r> mdz: gah - wonder what didn't get unmounted.. :-(
[11:16] <lamont_r> uh.  heh.
[11:17] <mdz> Kamion: I'm thinking I should just convert most of the shell functions in casper-udeb.postinst into casper.d scripts
[11:17] <Kamion> tend to agree
[11:17] <mdz> Kamion: will I run into problems driving the progress bar from within a subprocess?
[11:17] <Kamion> no
[11:17] <mdz> ok, so basically cut and paste then
[11:17] <Kamion> not that I can think of, anyway
[11:17] <Kamion> just source the confmodule in each, they all talk to the same frontend
[11:20] <lamont_r> so, um, Kamion...
[11:20] <lamont_r> new livecd rootfs files for you in about 30 minutes
[11:20] <lamont_r> mdz: for the record, I was unmounting it...
[11:20] <Kamion> ok
[11:20] <lamont_r> right after I compressed it.
[11:20] <lamont_r> :-(
[11:21] <Kamion> unfortunately I basically can't download an image in time for it to be usefully testable at the moment
[11:21] <Kamion> so I'll give up for a while and use the bandwidth for something more productive
[11:23] <mdz> Kamion: what's the intended difference between base-installer.d and prebaseconfig.d?
[11:23] <mdz> lamont_r: tried blocksize=1k?
[11:23] <mdz> we could also do blocksize=4k and use 4k blocks in the ext2 fs
[11:24] <mdz> the latter should be much more efficient
[11:24] <mdz> space-wise
[11:24] <lamont_r> actually running one with blocksizes from 1 to 32 kb
[11:24] <lamont_r> ah, because most of our files are > 2KB?
[11:24] <Kamion> mdz: base-installer.d runs before the base system is installed, i.e. before debootstrap
[11:25] <Kamion> mdz: the reason netcfg runs there is that some packages installed by debootstrap expect the networking information already to be set up
[11:25] <mdz> ah
[11:25] <Kamion> so prebaseconfig.d would be too late
[11:25] <mdz> so for casper the distinction is irrelevant
[11:25] <mdz> (which is good, because I treated them exactly the same)
[11:26] <lamont_r> 4k is 655MB, 2k is 741
[11:26] <lamont_r> 8k is 603
[11:26] <mdz> Kamion: hmm
[11:26] <Kamion> yes
[11:26] <mdz> Kamion: we're going to run into some major sequence number problems if I go this route
[11:26] <Kamion> why?
[11:26] <mdz> because casper has >5 things which need to be run in order before 05archive-copier
[11:27] <Kamion> 05archive-copier doesn't have to stay as 05 in casper.d
[11:27] <Kamion> uh, in any case you don't want to run archive-copier in casper!
[11:27] <Kamion> sure
[11:27] <Kamion> surely
[11:27] <lamont_r> heh
[11:27] <mdz> s/archive-copier/05localechooser/
[11:27] <mdz> they both run at 05
[11:28] <mdz> the prebaseconfig bit of archive-copier only runs apt-cdrom
[11:28] <Kamion> I didn't put archive-copier in the casper seed :)
[11:28] <mdz> Kamion: you didn't implement usage of the casper seed, either, iirc ;-)
[11:28] <Kamion> lucky for you ;)
[11:29] <Kamion> mdz: I guess it's useful; shall I put it back?
[11:29] <Kamion> oh, do you have any preseeding entries that you want me to set for casper? it's not hard to do so
[11:29] <lamont_r> what locale does the livecd boot with by default?
[11:30] <Kamion> C.UTF-8 and runs localechooser first
[11:30] <lamont_r> ok.  gonna have to stomp on libpaper1 a little, I think
[11:30] <Kamion> I could add one that defaults to en_US or whatever and skips the localechooser question, if you like
[11:30] <Kamion> s/one/a bootloader entry/
[11:30] <lamont_r> unless we want A4 to be the default paper on the livecd regardless of locale...
[11:31] <mdz> Kamion: the only thing which I would like to change is the hostname logic
[11:31] <mdz> Kamion: but preseeding won't exactly do what I want
[11:31] <Kamion> hm, I thought I gave preseeding entries which would?
[11:32] <mdz> Kamion: what's the right way to display those nice error dialogs?
[11:33] <mdz> Kamion: you did?
[11:33] <mdz> Kamion: oh, preseeding is scripts, not simply setting values?
[11:33] <mdz> because I need to twiddle the seen flag or whatever
[11:33] <Kamion> mdz: search for netcfg/dhcp_options in those logs of yours
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: no, preseeding is setting values, but the seen flag automatically gets set
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: but I don't want to set the value
[11:34] <Kamion> otherwise it'd be somewhat useless :)
[11:34] <mdz> I want it to use the dhcp one, or 'ubuntu' if it doesn't get one
[11:34] <Kamion> yes, you can do that by preseeding the control flow
[11:35] <mdz> Kamion: example?
[11:35] <Kamion> d-i netcfg/dhcp_options select Configure network manually
[11:36] <lamont_r> mdz: need to go fetch kids and head back home
[11:36] <lamont_r> amd64 is compressing now, others still installing
[11:36] <Kamion> d-i netcfg/get_hostname string ubuntu
[11:36] <Kamion> if DHCP succeeds it'll overwrite netcfg/get_hostname
[11:36] <lamont_r> back about 15:30 mdz time
[11:37] <Kamion> mdz: error dialogs, you mean the ones d-i throws up?
[11:38] <Kamion> mdz: db_input a question whose template has type 'error', then db_go
[11:38] <Kamion> if you've turned on the backup capability then db_go will return 30 on backup, and exit 10 from a postinst to backup to the main menu
[11:38] <Kamion> the priority of any error question is forced to critical
[11:38] <Kamion> that's about it
[11:43] <mdz> Kamion: yes, those, thanks