[12:00] <Craigory> Sorry Crimsun -- I assume I was supposed to provide a link to that much information.
[12:00] <Unholyfuneral> thats not an flood thats an disply of info
[12:00] <Unholyfuneral> that he wants help with
[12:00] <Craigory> File /proc/asound/cards has ENS1370 listed.
[12:01] <crimsun> Craigory: excellent. And alsamixer lists which controls?
[12:01] <Craigory> Unholy -- yes, but it's also a flood.  (:  I should've provided a link to a multi-line message.
[12:01] <Unholyfuneral> LInks are nice
[12:01] <Craigory> Master, master M, PCM, PCM 1, Line, CD, Mic, Mic Boost, Aux, Mono, Mono 1, AD Input
[12:01] <king_arthur> separate networks on same NIC that is
[12:01] <Unholyfuneral> so R Guns
[12:01] <Craigory> All unmuted, all non-zero.
[12:02] <crimsun> Craigory: which are selected for recording?
[12:02] <Craigory> Microphone only (have also tried selecting all for recording to no avail)
[12:02] <mellinux> My sound card on my Gateway2000 Solo9100 isn't even recognized, any ideas?
[12:02] <mellinux> It's a Pentium II Latptop.
[12:02] <crimsun> Craigory: make sure AD input is muted.
[12:03] <Craigory> Ok.  (I assume the MM at top means muted)
[12:03] <crimsun> yes.
[12:04] <Cloudchaser> i added dns servers to my resolv.conf via the networking gui (warty) but they didn't survive a reboot...
[12:04] <Cloudchaser> would anyone have any idea why not?
[12:04] <crimsun> Cloudchaser: do you use dhcp for that network interface?
[12:04] <Cloudchaser> yes
[12:05] <crimsun> Cloudchaser: that's why. The lease info that's accepted overwrites the additional dns servers you listed.
[12:05] <rob0> mellinux, you should try to find in the docs (or on Google) what the sound chip is. Did you try the linux-on-laptops site?
[12:05] <Craigory> Thanks for the help, crimsun.  Still a no-go.
[12:06] <mellinux> nope, ill try them
[12:06] <froust> can anyone recommend some good reference books for linux?
[12:06] <rob0> crimsun, I noticed that mine didn't send its hostname to the DHCP server when I got my lease, so dynamic DNS didn't work. Do you know where to fix that?
[12:06] <crimsun> Craigory: mic is selected for recording, unmuted, and the boost is up?
[12:07] <crimsun> mellinux: you'll use the snd-opl3sa2 driver
[12:08] <Craigory> Hmm... the "set for recording" thing is questionable.  There are two interfaces -- alsamixer and gnome's mixer.  In gnome I can select multiple channels to record.  Alsamixer's man page claims only one channel can record at a time.  In alsamixer, I hit space (which is supposed to toggle recording on a channel) but there is no visual acknowledgement that I have changed anything.
[12:08] <dreamer> alrighty, how do I change my graphics driver via CLI in ubuntu? I took the radeon out of the box, and now I have an onboard gf4mx
[12:09] <crimsun> Craigory: are you using warty or hoary?
[12:09] <rob0> the red "REC" up at the top?
[12:10] <crimsun> dreamer: warty or hoary?
[12:10] <Cloudchaser> so how can i make it stay then? maybe put those ip addresses on my router?
[12:10] <dreamer> warty
[12:10] <Craigory> Hoary.  I was having the same problem in Debian unstable just before Warty was released.
[12:10] <crimsun> dreamer: use an editor to edit /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 and change "radeon" (or) "fglrx" to "nv" or "nvidia"
[12:10] <dreamer> hrmm
[12:11] <dreamer> I tried dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 or whatever it was
[12:11] <crimsun> Craigory: using alsamixer in hoary, were you looking at the recording screen? F4
[12:11] <dreamer> and I changed it to nv
[12:11] <dreamer> but it still barfs
[12:11] <dreamer> I'll try editing that now, ta
[12:12] <Craigory> crimsun -- I am now. (:  The "CAPTUR" indicator is in fact above the "Mic" channel.
[12:12] <Craigory> (and only the Mic channel)
[12:12] <Nap> hi !
[12:13] <Craigory> There is a strange "Mic Bypa" channel -- mic bypass?
[12:13] <cafeina> hello
[12:14] <cafeina> is it possible to install ubuntu with lilo instead of grub ?
[12:14] <dreamer> hmm
[12:14] <dreamer> crimsun: didn't work, X still barfs
[12:14] <randabis> yes
[12:14] <crimsun> Craigory: yes
[12:14] <randabis> there's a couple of ways I believe
[12:14] <cafeina> how can I do that ?
[12:15] <StolenShoeBox> join /mmwsf
[12:15] <StolenShoeBox> woops
[12:15] <StolenShoeBox> lol
[12:15] <randabis> why do you want lilo?
[12:15] <randabis> just curious
[12:15] <crimsun> dreamer: would you put your /var/log/XFree86.0.log on pastebin.com?
[12:15] <dreamer> let me have a look at it
[12:15] <cafeina> randabis, because grub won't work
[12:15] <cafeina> no distro with grub works
[12:15] <rob0> why not?
[12:16] <cafeina> I don't know
[12:16] <cafeina> I always get error 16
[12:16] <cafeina> lilo worksperfectly
[12:16] <rob0> do oyu already have LILO installed in another distro?
[12:16] <cafeina> I tried variuos distros
[12:16] <dreamer> I haven't actually got the lan set up on it yet heh
[12:17] <cafeina> the ones with lilo work
[12:17] <cafeina> the ones with grub won't
[12:17] <dreamer> I need to set it to use dhcp again
[12:17] <mcphail> cafeina: Check out the options when booting from ubuntu disk. I'm sure there's an 'expert' install
[12:17] <cafeina> yes...
[12:17] <Nap> I upgraded my ubuntu to hoary. The kernel is now 2.6.10, and my D-Link 520+ does not work anymore
[12:17] <cafeina> ...there is
[12:18] <StolenShoeBox> can anyone help me stream quick time video?
[12:18] <Nap> did anyone have the same problem ?
[12:18] <cafeina> but it won't allow me to choose boot manager
[12:18] <mcphail> hmm...
[12:18] <dreamer> I'm gonna restart the box, it appears to still be using ati drivers
[12:19] <rob0> otherwise your GRUB distro installs complete successfully? They only fail with the boot loader?
[12:19] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: do you want to see the yesterday's "Steve Job show" live on your box? ;)
[12:19] <cafeina> yes
[12:19] <mcphail> Are you putting GRUB on the MBR?
[12:19] <rob0> if so you can probably use the CD to boot into the hard drive, then fix GRUB or install LILO
[12:20] <cafeina> yes
[12:20] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur, yes! lol
[12:20] <rob0> unfortunately I don't know enough about Ubuntu to help you with that
[12:20] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: Great stuff!
[12:20] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur, could u help?
[12:20] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: I tried myself but no luck
[12:20] <cafeina> rob0, but is it possible to install lilo on ubuntu ?
[12:21] <lexhider> can the Ubuntu install CD be used as a rescue boot CD if I right other stuff into the MBR, I used to do that with Debian install CDs.
[12:21] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur, damn =( I really wonna watch it. I like the mini mac =)
[12:21] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: Just used my iMac for watching it 8)
[12:21] <mcphail> lilo is there
[12:21] <Craigory> In gnome's mixer, I can switch between two devices, and change their settings separately: Ensoniq (Alsa), and AK4531 (Oss).  Strangely, switching between the two in the interface causes a hiss to start or stop until I switch again.  The hiss only occurs when the microphone is set very high.  The mic is not muted for either device.
[12:21] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur, is there a way u could save it and send it 2 me?
[12:21] <lexhider> aptitude install lilo
[12:21] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: nope
[12:21] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur, damn. thx anyways
[12:22] <cafeina> lexhider,but I have to install lilo during the installation
[12:22] <cafeina> otherwise I cannot boot into ubuntu
[12:22] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: broadcast can't be saved but you can watch on a wincozz machine...
[12:22] <mcphail> can't you boot from a disk?
[12:22] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur, just on ubuntu. =)
[12:23] <king_arthur> StolenShoeBox: well, good luck . If you find how, just let me know...
[12:23] <cafeina> no, because ubuntu won't install grub on a floppy
[12:23] <StolenShoeBox> king_arthur,  will do. =)
[12:23] <mcphail> Not necessarily from GRUB
[12:24] <dreamer> hmm
[12:24] <dreamer> perhaps I'm not editing the right config file
[12:24] <cafeina> hmm, you mean another disk created with another distro ?
[12:24] <mcphail> Will ubuntu install grub to the root partition?
[12:24] <cafeina> it's tricky, 'cause I have an amd64
[12:24] <cafeina> yes it will
[12:25] <Craigory> Thanks for the help everyone.  I'm giving up for now.
[12:25] <mcphail> Then why not boot with a 'live' disk -> chainloader etc etc
[12:25] <Meekle> does anyone know why ror fails every time i boot, and what it is
[12:25] <mcphail> Grub may work better on your root than MBR
[12:26] <mcphail> Then you could install lilo
[12:26] <cafeina> mcphail,I don't know how to do that
[12:26] <cafeina> grub won't work on my system
[12:26] <qbeek_> Meekle, ror ?
[12:26] <cafeina> I tried few distros with grub
[12:26] <mcphail> Another option may be to select lilo during package selection on expert install. This might deselect grub
[12:27] <cafeina> mcphail, It would be great, but there is no such option
[12:27] <Meekle> on boot it lists things
[12:27] <Meekle> that load up
[12:27] <Meekle> i think its the modules
[12:27] <Meekle> it goes by pretty quickly
[12:27] <mcphail> I haven't tried the expert option: what does it offer?
[12:28] <Meekle> and only one fails to load
[12:28] <Meekle> ror
[12:28] <cafeina> well, you can select which modules to load
[12:28] <Meekle> and it says something along the lines of temporary name something failed
[12:28] <cafeina> but no package selection
[12:29] <mcphail> Are you dual booting with another distro?
[12:29] <cafeina> no
[12:30] <katharine> Howdy. I'm in the midst of rescuing a dead laptop harddrive -- using an ubuntu (warty) system to rescue a dead ubuntu (hoary) system. I've just copied over my .phoenix directory. However, starting up doesn't get me my information. Furthermore, calling firefox with the SelectProfile option doesn't do anything. Any ideas?
[12:30] <cafeina> it's just grub fault
[12:30] <qbeek_> Meekle, if ror is a service, it is in /etc/init.d
[12:30] <crimsun> katharine: ~/.firefox/
[12:30] <Meekle> but its nothing that sounds like i really ought to go see why its failing?
[12:31] <mcphail> Yes, but (as a hellish workaround) you could install a barebones slackware etc to install lilo and boot from that. I accept this is a crappy suggestion.
[12:31] <katharine> crimsun: out of curiosity, then why isn't there a .firefox on either of the systems?
[12:31] <jcspray> katharine: ~/.mozilla/firefox
[12:31] <jcspray> the bastards keep changing it :-)
[12:31] <crimsun> katharine: because ... yeah, what jcspray said.
[12:32] <cafeina> mcphail, but if I install that slack...
[12:32] <katharine> jcspray, crimsun: strange.
[12:32] <cafeina> ....what do I get?
[12:32] <cafeina> I'll have lilo...
[12:32] <cafeina> ...but what then?
[12:32] <mcphail> You'll need to add ubuntu to the lilo menu
[12:32] <katharine> So I guess I'd better copy .firefox off of the original system instead of .phoenix then!
[12:33] <Altke> what command in console can  i type to find my current version of the linux kernel?
[12:33] <cafeina> mcphail, how?
[12:33] <crimsun> Altke: uname -r
[12:33] <Altke> thanks
[12:34] <Altke> 2.6.8.1 sounds right?
[12:34] <crimsun> for warty, yes.
[12:34] <randabis> is there a way to easily change all permissions to a specific folder and all of the files and subfolders within it?
[12:34] <Ribs> randabis, man chmod
[12:35] <randabis> yeah I figured chmod could do it...I'm just being lazy :p
[12:35] <lexhider> where do I change browser ID in firefox?
[12:35] <mcphail> From your e.g. slackware distro. Add the parameters for your ubuntu root and run lilo.config (??? ages since i used lilo ???). The barebone system is only to give you a new boot menu
[12:35] <cafeina> lexhider, you need user agent extension
[12:36] <Ribs> randabis, hint: you'll want the recursive option (-r)
[12:36] <cafeina> mmm
[12:36] <bassinboy> hmm, how can i find out which service is starting python2.2
[12:36] <randabis> h
[12:36] <cafeina> I'll have to try
[12:36] <randabis> ah
[12:37] <spunout> mounted proc.  chrooted sda1(ubuntu).  grub-install /dev/hda says Could not find device for /boot: Not Found or not a block device
[12:37] <spunout> (sorry left for a sec if someone answered me already)
[12:37] <randabis> god I'm having a bad day...I forgot how to close out of a friggin man page
[12:37] <spunout> q
[12:37] <randabis> LOL
[12:37] <randabis> the only thing I didn't try
[12:37] <bassinboy> heh, man is like less
[12:37] <rob0> ctrl-alt-delete might do it too ;)
[12:38] <spunout> rob0: is there some way to mount the /boot in my chrooted environs?
[12:39] <HrdwrBoB> spunout: yes, use mount :)
[12:40] <Meekle> has anyone noticed that chocolate is ugly?  like the default background?
[12:41] <crimsun> subjective statement there
[12:41] <mcphail> i like it
[12:42] <mellinux> hey crimsun
[12:42] <rob0> spunout, same as with /proc
[12:42] <Meekle> doesnt make it less true
[12:43] <StolenShoeBox> Can someone help. When im sueing mplayer im mozilla the buffer gets to 99% and stays there.
[12:43] <mellinux> where can i find the snd-opl3sa2 driver?
[12:43] <Meekle> why does gnome sometimes just quit executing programs until i restart my computer???
[12:44] <mcphail> Meekle: you've probably got a runaway process
[12:45] <Gnurdux> Can the Install CDresize NTFS patititions?
[12:45] <rob0> mellinux, sudo modprobe -v snd-opl3sa2 # will work if that is your sound card
[12:45] <crimsun> mellinux: /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/sound/isa/snd-opl3sa2.ko
[12:45] <rob0> ( and if no other driver has claimed it )
[12:45] <mellinux> do i put that in a terminal?
[12:45] <Gnurdux> yeah
[12:45] <Meekle> gotta love how open root terminal is a runaway process
[12:46] <Gnurdux> and  ive never touched Ubuntu
[12:46] <rob0> yes, get used to using terminals
[12:46] <mellinux> i've looked at it,but not alot
[12:46] <Meekle> i like terminals
[12:46] <mellinux> sudo is for root acess, right?
[12:46] <Gnurdux> but i want to know whether Ubuntu Install CD can resize NTFS
[12:46] <Gnurdux> yes
[12:46] <mellinux> access*
[12:46] <mellinux> yeah. sudo is all i know
[12:46] <Meekle> but then again, i was raised on apple 2GS and dos
[12:46] <mellinux> and if i type in firefox it goes
[12:47] <Gnurdux> does anyone know the answer to my question?
[12:47] <spunout> rob0: mount --bind /boot /mount/sda1/boot before chrooting?
[12:47] <mcphail> Gnurdux: afraid not
[12:47] <mellinux> bah, rob0, it won't allow me to type in my password
[12:47] <Gnurdux> nobody knows or it cant?
[12:47] <rob0> spunout, maybe ;)
[12:47] <Gnurdux> oh whatever
[12:49] <spunout> maybe not.
[12:50] <mellinux> ok
[12:50] <mellinux> rob0, it worked this time, says no device found
[12:50] <mellinux> weird.
[12:51] <mellinux> and crimsun - yours says access denied
[12:51] <katharine> Hrmph. Well, bookmarks work now, but I'm getting some creepy behavior. If I open firefox while another user is running firefox, I open up a new window in their version of firefox (their bookmarks, etc.)
[12:51] <Meekle> ubuntu seems a lot faster than mandrake
[12:51] <AndyR> anyone know how to get skype working on warty? the instructions dont work
[12:52] <crimsun> AndyR: where does it fail?
[12:52] <AndyR> Meekle, ubuntu is much faster on same hardware
[12:52] <AndyR> crimsun, well it runs but cant make outgoing calls
[12:53] <AndyR> and no sound in or out
[12:53] <crimsun> AndyR: are you using it with aoss?
[12:53] <AndyR> aoss?
[12:53] <crimsun> then no, you're not.
[12:54] <AndyR> no ;0
[12:54] <AndyR> should i be?
[12:54] <king_arthur> crimsun: He has got sound no voice
[12:54] <crimsun> AndyR: which set of instructions did you follow?
[12:54] <king_arthur> crimsun: seems like the mic isn't working on skype
[12:54] <darmou> Does anyone know how you can change the default keyboard layout to dvorak in ubuntu?
[12:55] <king_arthur> AndyR: go to the skype forum ;)
[12:55] <crimsun> darmou: in console or in X Windows?
[12:55] <darmou> X windows
[12:55] <king_arthur> AndyR: good night
[12:56] <crimsun> darmou: for Hoary, Desktop>Preferences>Keyboard
[12:56] <AndyR> i cant hear or be heard
[12:56] <crimsun> darmou: for Warty, it'd be in Settings>Preferences>Keyboard or thereabouts
[12:57] <AndyR> but mic and sound work in arecord and asound
[12:57] <yorkomo> ok, I am new to linux, but I want to know... how easy/hard is it to upgrade to hoary?
[12:57] <froust> yorkomo, really easy
[12:58] <yorkomo> oh?
[12:58] <froust> yeah... you edit a text file, then apt-get update
[12:58] <froust> then apt-get dist-upgrade
[12:58] <yorkomo> which text file?
[12:58] <froust> sources.list
[12:59] <darmou> Hmm no matter which you select it makes no difference or do you have to log out and then baiv in again
[12:59] <froust> there's a howto on ubuntulinux.org
[12:59] <yorkomo> can you point me to a walk through?
[12:59] <mcphail> yorkomo: it may be safer to use the backports if you're just looking for a few new versions of apps
[12:59] <froust> i'll find it for you
[12:59] <yorkomo> mcphail: why's that?
[12:59] <AndyR> time for bed
[12:59] <AndyR> nn
[01:00] <darmou> if all else fails there is the good old xmodmap .dvorak:)
[01:00] <froust> yorkomo: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GuideToHoary/view?searchterm=hoary
[01:00] <mcphail> yorkomo: hoary isn't fully mature yet. You may mess up your install
[01:01] <yorkomo> mcphail: sounded easy according to froust
[01:01] <yorkomo> :(
[01:02] <froust> it is easy
[01:02] <froust> doesn't mean it won't mess anything up
[01:02] <froust> i haven't had any problems
[01:02] <froust> but it's unstable
[01:02] <mcphail> it will be easy, but unstable
[01:02] <yorkomo> I see
[01:02] <yorkomo> but doesn't hoary use xorg's shell and warty uses freex86?
[01:03] <crimsun> hoary does use X.Org, yes.
[01:03] <yorkomo> is there a way to just upgrade X.org on warty?
[01:03] <mcphail> i don't think that is in the backports
[01:04] <crimsun> not recommended, either.
[01:04] <yorkomo> :/
[01:04] <froust> i think *think* that you can just change all the "warty" to "hoary" in your sources.list and then apt-get update apt-get upgrade
[01:04] <froust> but i don't know for sure
[01:04] <froust> so you might want to double check that first
[01:04] <yorkomo> well, it may be unstable, but I think I am going to try it
[01:04] <yorkomo> what's the worse that can happen?
[01:04] <yorkomo> I have to reinstall?
[01:05] <froust> pretty much
[01:05] <yorkomo> oh well, not a whole lot on this machine anyhow
[01:05] <mellinux> crimsun: i tried linux-laptops
[01:05] <mellinux> gateway 9100 doesn't have aworking page..
[01:05] <mellinux> and both the commands two people gave me didn't work, or t claimed my access was denied.
[01:05] <crimsun> sec
[01:06] <mellinux> and.. for an xchat newbie, is there any short way to put this: someone's name: before a sentence?
[01:07] <mcphail> mellinux: TAB key
[01:07] <mellinux> thanks
[01:07] <mcphail> (if you've set completion in preferences)
[01:07] <[Gnomix] > Chiunque fosse interessato a materiali informatici tecnici pu trovare una ricca raccolta su www.gnomixland.com
[01:08] <c3drik> hey i'm pretty new to ubuntu and i've looked over the FAQ's and the support pages but i can't seem to find much about installing php
[01:09] <mellinux> mcphail, where is that checkbox under preferences?
[01:09] <usual> apt-get install php4
[01:09] <mellinux> i looked and couldn't find it
[01:09] <c3drik> i'm tried that but this is what is says
[01:09] <c3drik> sudo apt-get install php
[01:09] <c3drik> Reading Package Lists... Done
[01:09] <c3drik> Building Dependency Tree... Done
[01:09] <c3drik> E: Couldn't find package php
[01:09] <usual> php4
[01:09] <c3drik> i've tried php, php4, php5
[01:10] <usual> maybe you need to enable universe and multiverse
[01:10] <c3drik> same error message on all of those
[01:10] <darmou> ok logging out and logging back in did the trick, of course my gnome-session was stuffed being hoary but fortunatly I have a recover script now.
[01:10] <mcphail> c3drik: libapache2-mod-php4
[01:11] <c3drik> mcpail: that seemed to do the trick, it's installing now
[01:12] <mcphail> c3drik: php4 (not the apache-mod) is in universe
[01:12] <crimsun> mellinux: /join #flood, paste the output of `cat /proc/asound/devices'
[01:13] <mellinux> plug in `cat bla bla bla into a terminal?
[01:13] <mellinux> or root?
[01:13] <crimsun> mellinux: normal user is fine
[01:13] <yorkomo> froust: thanks
[01:13] <c3drik> mcphail: it's still not working at the moment, let me check something
[01:14] <ernstp> hello
[01:14] <yorkomo> mcphail: thanks for the warnings ^_~
[01:14] <froust> yorkomo: did it work?
[01:14] <yorkomo> froust: gonna find out in a min here
[01:14] <ernstp> what's wrong when apt-get -b source pkg starts building for one package but only downloads for another?
[01:14] <yorkomo> just did the apt-get update
[01:14] <yorkomo> gonna do the dist-upgrade in a min
[01:14] <froust> fun :)
[01:14] <froust> good luck
[01:14] <yorkomo> thanks
[01:15] <yorkomo> prolly gonna need it
[01:15] <ernstp> or is there any good place to get a gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg deb for amd64?
[01:15] <froust> when i did it
[01:15] <mellinux>  33:       : timer
[01:15] <froust> it was erally really easy
[01:15] <mellinux> that's all it outputs
[01:15] <c3drik> mcphail: still no luck
[01:16] <mcphail> c3drik: command line php or server?
[01:16] <doodoo> i cannot get my display to work properly, i cant start gnome, does anyone know how to change display settings?
[01:16] <c3drik> server
[01:16] <_guMuTpoB> hello, could any1 tell me if I have a chance to get my Creative SB Live! 24bit running in Ubuntu ?
[01:16] <mcphail> c3drik: have you restarted apache?
[01:16] <c3drik> mcphail: yeah
[01:16] <crimsun> _guMuTpoB: not in warty without much work.
[01:17] <mcphail> c3drik: no output from phpinfo?
[01:17] <crimsun> _guMuTpoB: you need a _very_ current version of ALSA - much newer than what's available in warty
[01:17] <_guMuTpoB> but still possible :)
[01:17] <_guMuTpoB> ill try
[01:17] <c3drik> mcphail: where is phpinfo stored at?
[01:18] <crimsun> _guMuTpoB: you'll need to compile a lot of things yourself, and if you're not comfortable with Debian packaging, there's a good chance you'll muck up something
[01:18] <_guMuTpoB> does it have the dsp chip 10k1 like live! 5.1 ?
[01:18] <mellinux> okay crimsun
[01:18] <mellinux> http://pastebin.com/228213
[01:18] <crimsun> _guMuTpoB: it's a crippled chipset.
[01:18] <mcphail> c3drik: no, the command in a script
[01:18] <crimsun> _guMuTpoB: if I were you, I'd return it for a "regular" sblive.
[01:19] <_guMuTpoB> too late i think :(
[01:19] <c3drik> mcphail: i don't know
[01:20] <crimsun> mellinux: odd, you don't have the main driver loaded.
[01:20] <guugmember> who has installed asterisk on ubuntu?
[01:20] <mcphail> c3drik: I haven't put apache on this install, but I remember php working quite simply before. Have you put index.php in the htdocs directory?
[01:20] <setite> linux rocks
[01:20] <setite> ubuntu rocks hard
[01:21] <Locutus1976> Has anyone gotten madwifi to work on ubuntu?
[01:21] <crimsun> mellinux: sudo modprobe snd-opl3sa2 isapnp=0
[01:21] <mellinux> i've never installed a driver
[01:21] <mellinux> fun
[01:22] <mellinux> if you don't mind me asking, what does modprobe mean?
[01:22] <mcphail> c3drik: IIRC apt sorted out the apache conf etc. it "just worked" for me
[01:22] <crimsun> mellinux: insert the module(s) specified along with any dependencies
[01:23] <crimsun> mellinux: where "insert" means "load"
[01:23] <mellinux> Failed to run /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator as user root:
[01:23] <mellinux>  Child terminated with 1 status
[01:23] <mellinux> i get that when i try to run root terminal
[01:23] <mellinux> and a regular terminal won't accept my password...
[01:23] <setite> someone help me get full-duplex sound
[01:23] <crimsun> mellinux: you don't need to run a root terminal. Note that I preface the command with "sudo"
[01:24] <setite> only one app can use the sound at a time currently
[01:24] <mellinux> yes, i know. =[ sudo won't let me enter a password
[01:24] <c3drik> mcphail: apache is working, but whenever i go to view a php file on the server, instead of showing the file it tries to download it to my pc
[01:24] <setite> like i cant hear IMs while xine is playing a movie, or xmms is playing and mp3
[01:24] <c3drik> mcphail: i'm sshing into it right now
[01:24] <crimsun> setite: full-duplex refers to simultaneous recording and playback. What you seek is multiple sounds playing back simultaneously, which you can achieve using dmix.
[01:25] <setite> ok
[01:26] <setite> where do i get that
[01:26] <crimsun> mellinux: I do not understand what you mean by "won't let [you]  enter a password"
[01:26] <mellinux> nevermind. it works now, i made a mistake
[01:26] <crimsun> setite: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=AlsaSharing
[01:26] <crimsun> setite: if you have questions, /join #alsa and ask me there.
[01:26] <stuNNed> crimsun, the downgrade seemed to work :D
[01:27] <mellinux> FATAL: Error inserting snd_opl3sa2 (/lib/modules/2.6.8.1-3-386/kernel/sound/isa/snd-opl3sa2.ko): No such device
[01:27] <mellinux> damn.
[01:27] <mellinux> maybe the soundcard is fried?
[01:28] <crimsun> stuNNed: excellent.
[01:28] <crimsun> mellinux: hmm, lemme check something regarding your laptop's bios.
[01:28] <mcphail> c3drik: sounds like mod-php has to be added to httpd.conf
[01:28] <Locutus1976> Do Atheros wifi cards worth out of the box in Ubuntu?
[01:28] <crimsun> Locutus1976: yes.
[01:29] <mellinux> ok
[01:29] <Locutus1976> crimsun: I am trying to enable a wlan card and I cannot get it to work from the settings
[01:30] <crimsun> Locutus1976: have you searched the wiki for ath_pci? The interface name will be ath0.
[01:30] <Locutus1976> It just shows up as ath0 and when I put in my essid and wep key it doesn't activate itself.
[01:31] <setite> whoa forget all that... not worth the effort
[01:31] <setite> not till im on the other 64bit rig... then ill try
[01:31] <setite> one more day.. woot!
[01:31] <froust> mmm64bit
[01:32] <crimsun> setite: creating an .asoundrc and restarting your ALSA applications takes approximately one minute.
[01:32] <setite> yea but reading that site was confusing... it was saying a whole lot more than was necessary if its a 1 minute process
[01:33] <crimsun> setite: that's because that page attempts to tell you a lot of information, and it's not streamlined.
[01:33] <doodoo> can someone help me? I just installed ubuntu on my laptop, but i chose the wrong display mode so now the x-server cant load, how do i change this?
[01:34] <crimsun> setite: like I said, if you need help, /join #alsa and I'm glad to assist you.
[01:34] <setite> well tell me this... will linux automatically mix the sound on a better soundcard that supports it
[01:34] <crimsun> doodoo: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[01:34] <froust> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-Xfree86 (or xorg.conf)
[01:34] <setite> my other pc has a sb audigy 2 zs
[01:34] <guugmember> who has installed asterisk on ubuntu?
[01:34] <crimsun> setite: yes, but you need a newer version of ALSA than what is available in warty
[01:35] <setite> ok well that will be easy enough...
[01:35] <froust> i'm heading home
[01:35] <froust> cya
[01:35] <crimsun> ta ta
[01:35] <setite> everything i do on this rig was just so i knew how to do it on my new pc.... so im guessing i dont need to know how to do this if its a different story
[01:36] <crimsun> you don't _have_ to know, but it's certainly useful.
[01:36] <doodoo> crimsun thanx a lot =) ypu just made my day!!
[01:36] <crimsun> doodoo: np
[01:37] <crimsun> mellinux: the difficult part will be figuring out what inane combination of port and dma irqs your hardware is currently set to use
[01:37] <mellinux> hm.. i can't make any sense of that
[01:37] <mellinux> is it hopeless?
[01:37] <crimsun> not by any stretch
[01:37] <mellinux> k, let's do it. if you're up to it, that is
[01:38] <crimsun> the first thing you need to do is disable PCI Auto Detect in bios
[01:39] <mellinux> ok
[01:39] <mellinux> restarting
[01:40] <keith_> ugh - I give up
[01:40] <keith_> has anyone gotten a Netgear WG511 to work with Warty?
[01:44] <tritium> What has happened to some of the applets such as mail notification and wireless applet?
[01:49] <Quest-Master> What is the name of the glib package for AMD64?
[01:49] <calc> libc6
[01:49] <calc> oh glib, not glibc
[01:49] <calc> libglib2.0-0
[01:49] <Quest-Master> Ah
[01:49] <calc> named the same as i386
[01:49] <randabis> lol I did something funny
[01:50] <randabis> http://img110.exs.cx/img110/9182/omfg9ch.jpg
[01:50] <calc> billy2willy: its neon shrooms
[01:50] <billy2willy> bah
[01:51] <billy2willy> that pic is a rip of an older blue version
[01:51] <billy2willy> how'd you get the bar on the bottom?
[01:51] <Quest-Master> randabis: Where'd you get that wallpaper from?
[01:52] <wastrel> gdesklets
[01:52] <billy2willy> the blue version of it is on kde-look.org
[01:52] <randabis> hehe
[01:52] <billy2willy> what gdesklet does that bar.
[01:52] <crimsun> that's a manipulated version of a digitalblasphemy.com one
[01:52] <randabis> starterbar
[01:52] <Quest-Master> Ah
[01:52] <calc> crimsun: yea thats it :)
[01:52] <billy2willy> oh. maybe it was digitalblasphemy.
[01:52] <billy2willy> my bad
[01:52] <crimsun> I have a sub there; I recognize it from years ago.
[01:52] <calc> i hadn't looked at the site in so long i had forgotten its name ;)
[01:53] <billy2willy> heh
[01:53] <billy2willy> I haven't been back either
[01:53] <billy2willy> there is a better wallpaper site whose name eludes me
[01:54] <billy2willy> illegalart.com or something like that.
[01:54] <billy2willy> deviantart maybe
[01:54] <crimsun> deviantart is much more than just art, however.
[01:54] <calc> like p0rn
[01:54] <Liron> Hello, I was wondering if this is the right place to ask about help regarding setting up an ADSL connection with the UBuntu livecd?
[01:54] <crimsun> and a lot of very juvenile rambling
[01:55] <randabis> heh
[01:55] <billy2willy> hmm. maybe it is deviantart.com then.. It is much more than just wallpaper.
[01:55] <mellinux> crimsun
[01:55] <mellinux> i turned the PCMIA or something off
[01:55] <mellinux> and looked through some stuff, and turned off the large disk use
[01:55] <billy2willy> Liron, probably the right place
[01:55] <mellinux> it said it was better for UNIX
[01:56] <Liron> does anyone here have any experience with setting up an adsl connection on ubuntu? I've posted to the forums and haven't really managed to find a solution or even a lead
[01:57] <calc> Liron: depends on what type of adsl, the usual type around here just uses dhcp so it works immediately
[01:57] <LaurenceRow1> Hi, I'm trying to access an smb share on a server at my home network. I can browse to the server, but I can't find anywhere to authenticate with my username and password so I can see my share. Any ideas. The Nautilus help refers to an 'Add Network Place' object in computer, but it doesn't seem to appear with ubuntu. Any ideas?
[01:57] <keith_> LaurenceRow1: I just didn't enter one and it worked - your mileage may vary
[01:58] <keith_> LaurenceRow1: I just set this up yesterday - so I don't have a lot of experience
[01:58] <LaurenceRow1> keith_: hmm my server is set up to require a password for some shares
[01:59] <Liron> well, I have a adsl modem connected to an ethernet card, and I've tried to set it up with pppoeconf and it seems to have gone through without problems. I can run pon dsl-provider with no problem, but I still can't really do anything - pinging  doesn't resolve hosts and I can't get to any sites, connect to any services
[01:59] <crimsun> mellinux: the next thing you need to do is load the snd-opl3sa2 driver
[01:59] <Liron> ifconfig doesn't show me anything out of the ordinary
[01:59] <mellinux> ok
[01:59] <mellinux> in a terminal?
[01:59] <keith_> LaurenceRow1: did you try Computer > Network
[01:59] <usual> gxine is sooo much better than totem-gstreamer
[01:59] <keith_> LaurenceRow1: when I do that, I can see the Windows PC
[02:00] <crimsun> mellinux: yep.
[02:00] <billy2willy> usual mplayer-nogui is better than gxine;)
[02:00] <mellinux> dang, what's the command?
[02:00] <Liron> This is the post I added to the forums, if anyone has any idea what the problem might be please enter private with me, I could use all the help I can get! Thanks a bunch :) http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=47779
[02:01] <billy2willy> off to my night class cheerio
[02:01] <keyshawn> howdy
[02:01] <wastrel> Liron: roaring penguin pppoe
[02:01] <wastrel> Liron: that's what i used when i had pppoe
[02:01] <Liron> isn't that what is installed with the pppoe package?
[02:02] <wastrel> dunno i don't use ubuntu
[02:02] <Liron> I'm referring to the ubuntu livecd
[02:02] <wastrel> never used it :] 
[02:02] <mellinux> crimsun
[02:02] <mellinux> what's the command ?
[02:02] <wastrel> i love rp-pppoe tho
[02:03] <keyshawn> my question, where do you recommend i download my tar.gz'ed programs to ? [some of my programs don't use apt-get] [i'm fully aware how to install from source] 
[02:03] <keyshawn> just my /home ?
[02:05] <crimsun> mellinux: sudo modprobe snd-opl3sa2 port=0x370 sb_port=0x220 wss_port=0x530 fm_port=0x388 midi_port=0x330 irq=9 dma1=0 dma2=1 isapnp=0 opl3sa3_ymode=3
[02:05] <crimsun> sigh
[02:07] <wastrel> keyshawn:  make a src dir under your home dir
[02:07] <wastrel> keyshawn: that's what i do.  keeps things organized
[02:08] <superkitty> hi ubuntu folks
[02:08] <keyshawn> salutations.
[02:09] <superkitty> keyshawn greetings
[02:10] <superkitty> Keyshawn, what was the first thing you added to ubuntu after install?
[02:10] <keyshawn> funny you ask that.
[02:11] <keyshawn> i just installed ubuntu about a few hours ago.
[02:11] <keyshawn> :D
[02:11] <superkitty> and?
[02:11] <nomasteryoda> keyshawn, congrats
[02:12] <keyshawn> thanks.
[02:12] <keyshawn> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3713 - i did #1,3-7
[02:12] <keyshawn> that helped.
[02:13] <keyshawn> right now, im about to import my bookmarks and other things that I had backed up on cds.
[02:16] <mebaran> Could anyone please help me with a GRUB problem?
[02:16] <mebaran> clean ubuntu warty install
[02:16] <__learner__> what packages do I need to install images support for amsn?
[02:16] <nomasteryoda> keyshawn, good tip page
[02:18] <mckemie> I'm new to this IRC stuff; is anyone "listening"?
[02:18] <stuNNed> keyshawn, thanks for the url :)
[02:18] <stuNNed> keyshawn, useful in turning off ipv6
[02:21] <superkitty> keyshawn are you new to linux?
[02:22] <er1> yes
[02:22] <pdkl> thinking about moving /home to another partition
[02:23] <pdkl> what i basically have to do is mount it, copy it over, then rename old home to something, and mount /home to the new partition?
[02:24] <er1> yeah
[02:26] <er1> Well i am totally new to linux
[02:26] <pdkl> anyone ever use a partition resizer?
[02:26] <pdkl> im running so low on space
[02:28] <superkitty> pdkl i have
[02:28] <pdkl> and superkitty ?
[02:28] <superkitty> anytime you use one there is a chance of losing data
[02:29] <superkitty> so be careful and and read up on whatever partitioner you use
[02:29] <mebaran> Anybody help me please with a GRUB problem?
[02:31] <|QuaD-> is ubuntu-calendar desktop image for january online anywhere so i can dl it?
[02:31] <mebaran> My GRUB Config only boots the original kernel
[02:31] <mebaran> no matter how often I change the symlink to vmlinuz
[02:31] <mebaran> it refuses to read menu.lst
[02:32] <mebaran> Quad: The ubuntu calendar image is found in Synaptic.  Just do a search and you should find it.
[02:32] <|QuaD-> mebaran: i know... i am not on my ubuntu pc... home for break, curious what the new one looks like
[02:32] <|QuaD-> i am sshing in currently
[02:34] <wastrel> what's the calendar image?
[02:35] <pdkl> off to reszie
[02:35] <mebaran> oh
[02:35] <mebaran> I wouldnt know htne
[02:35] <mebaran> sorry
[02:38] <mebaran> hmmm
[02:41] <robertj> what day is the "ok, no more 100 meg downloads in hoary" day
[02:41] <robertj> %s/downloads/dist-upgrades where appropriate
[02:44] <Kirsch> hey guys, i have vmware 4.5 installed, whenever i restart my computer tho,  i have to rerun vmware-config.pl cause Ubuntu apparently deletes the devices, any ideas?
[02:46] <souki> Kirsch: I don't know for ubuntu but I had the same problem on redhat, it was a lock file (kind of)
[02:47] <pdkl> i have installed redhat on over 1000 machines in the last few years
[02:47] <pdkl> the biggest problem with redhat installs is....
[02:47] <pdkl> anyone care to guess/
[02:47] <pdkl> ?
[02:47] <thenuke> drumrol..
[02:47] <thenuke> drumroll is still rolling..
[02:47] <pdkl> guess please
[02:47] <racter> are the xf86config-4 and xorg.conf files interchangeable?  ie can i use my old XF86Config-4 file with xorg if i just rename it xorg.conf?
[02:47] <pdkl> its obvious
[02:48] <stuNNed> racter, afaik yes
[02:48] <crimsun> racter: replace the keyboard driver with "kbd"
[02:48] <thenuke> drummers hands are a bit sore.. please..
[02:48] <robertj> racter: you just have to rena...err the package will rena...err it will still work with it's old name
[02:49] <pdkl> ok ok
[02:49] <pdkl> its... rpm hell
[02:49] <nomasteryoda> lol
[02:49] <nomasteryoda> too true
[02:49] <racter> what?
[02:50] <pdkl> lets say you install rh on a desktop for a webbrowser user
[02:50] <robertj> !whatis rpm
[02:50] <pdkl> typical for a secetary that only job is to surf web, look up the phone directory
[02:51] <nomasteryoda> robertj, are you kidding?
[02:51] <robertj> yeah
[02:51] <nomasteryoda> k
[02:51] <pdkl> secetary or data entry person or telemarketer
[02:51] <pdkl> then says hmmm.. i want to install... x application
[02:51] <pdkl> they get savy enough after 2 weeks working with it, to find the rpm and install it
[02:52] <robertj> user's shouldn't install their own applications
[02:52] <pdkl> they get a suse rpm or something near that. or a mandrake rpm
[02:52] <robertj> unless they really know what they are doing
[02:52] <robertj> and that's not a Debian thing
[02:52] <souki> pdkl: your not fair, deb is the same if you don't hav apr-get/synaptic
[02:52] <pdkl> i am  not fair?
[02:52] <souki> pdkl: there is apt/synaptic on redhat/fedora
[02:52] <pdkl> i am saying what the #1 problem i ran into
[02:53] <robertj> the real gripe is that yum is the supported mechanism for updates and stinks
[02:53] <robertj> is it any better in core3
[02:53] <robertj> core2 was horrible
[02:53] <pdkl> user installs a rpm either old or new
[02:53] <pdkl> and starts messing up the depencies
[02:53] <souki> pdkl: user cannot install rpm
[02:53] <thenuke> btw, how do you upgrade mandrake to newer version?
[02:53] <pdkl> not when gods to be give them root password
[02:53] <pdkl> ;0
[02:54] <pdkl> anyways, as i was saying
[02:54] <souki> pdkl: that why I say you are not fair
[02:54] <pdkl> RPM hell #1
[02:54] <nomasteryoda> thenuke, you get the distro disc and install
[02:54] <nomasteryoda> using update
[02:54] <nomasteryoda> -upgrade
[02:55] <souki> pdkl: you'll got the same sheet with your secretary on debian
[02:55] <pdkl> you fail to get my point
[02:55] <thenuke> nomasteryoda: oookey. So noway to upgrade it thru net
[02:56] <souki> pdkl: because if you give root password to him/her, rpm or deb is not the point
[02:56] <robertj> pdkl: There is no point, secretary's dont install packages on any system
[02:56] <pdkl> iagain you fail to get my point
[02:56] <nomasteryoda> thenuke, not in my opintion
[02:56] <nomasteryoda> or experience
[02:56] <robertj> pdkl: that's like saying Redhat is worthless because your boss won't read the emails you write in evolution
[02:56] <nomasteryoda> pdkl, you NEVER let them have the root login
[02:57] <pdkl> again, you are not getting my point
[02:57] <Kirsch> souki: do u remember how to fix it?
[02:57] <nomasteryoda> the . is?
[02:57] <pdkl> its not about best practices, if i hAd the choice, it would be they never get root password
[02:58] <nomasteryoda> ok
[02:58] <souki> Kirsch: no, sorry
[02:58] <souki> pdkl: you don't have choice, don't give it
[02:59] <souki> pdkl: or maybe you can do something with sudo, but, the same problem at the end
[03:00] <souki> if a user can install anything, it is a big problem
[03:00] <lifeless> what is the official means for dhcp etc to be maintining /etc/resolv.conf? I have resolvconf installed from way back, but its just (after apt-updating yesterday) started nuking itself 5 mins after an interface comes up, like clockwork.
[03:03] <pdkl> shutdown -F -r now forces fsck, on reboot, but does it only check the root partition?
[03:03] <pdkl> !whatis rpm
[03:04] <souki> real player media
[03:06] <souki> pdkl: sorry, I don't see any differences between rpm and deb, except for the writing of the source package
[03:07] <souki> maybe someone could explain me why deb is better ?
[03:08] <pdkl> as long as this doesnt turn into a holy war deb vs rpm
[03:08] <pdkl> agreed?
[03:08] <souki> yes, I don't prefer one or other
[03:08] <pdkl> ok, one of the things that pop in my mind about rpms, is that lets take a suse rpm
[03:09] <pdkl> can you install it on a a rh machine/
[03:09] <pdkl> most likely not
[03:09] <souki> no, it's not intend to
[03:09] <pdkl> on the debian side, you can install sarge debs to a ubuntu or lets say a liberia.net (spelling)
[03:10] <souki> yes, but you cannot install an ubuntu deb on a previous release of debian
[03:10] <zenwhen> Hey, how would I stop X from starting at boot time?
[03:10] <pdkl> while its best not to install sarge debs that overwrite ubuntu packages
[03:10] <pdkl> you can install them
[03:10] <souki> you can expect the same behaviour between redhat and suse
[03:11] <pdkl> zenwhen: change your inittab
[03:11] <souki> or redhat and mandrake
[03:11] <nomasteryoda> yeah!, the Linux Link Tech Show guys are talking about Ubuntu...
[03:12] <pdkl> brb souki , checking out linx link tech show
[03:12] <souki> pdkl: I think it's just about the way the rpl are written, but does .deb can handle this?
[03:13] <souki> pdkl: I mean, if you try to install a rpm with bad dependencies
[03:13] <robertj> deb and rpm are effectively the same
[03:13] <robertj> there really is 0 point in debating the merits of one or the other
[03:14] <souki> robertj: It's not about merit, I would like to know
[03:16] <robertj> there's not much of a difference
[03:16] <robertj> they are all very close now and each distro has so much time invested in their packages that noone will standardize
[03:17] <souki> robertj: I've messed my warty with some hoary packages, so ...
[03:18] <robertj> souki: why not go back then?
[03:18] <souki> robertj: yes that's what I did
[03:18] <souki> robertj: but I disn't know enough about pnning, so I've reinstalled
[03:19] <tolstoy> Interesting. so, xcompmgr doesn't work in xinerama mode?
[03:19] <pdkl> back
[03:19] <tolstoy> I commented out the ServerOption for xinerama, restarted X, and now I have "two" desktops.
[03:20] <tolstoy> I can move the mouse between them, but not windows.
[03:20] <tolstoy> but if i change the background on one, it changes on the others.
[03:20] <tolstoy> hm.
[03:20] <froust> does anyone know which cpu's have smp support?
[03:21] <froust> or what it is?
[03:21] <souki> froust: do you mean hyper-threading ?
[03:21] <robertj> souki: you can just dist-upgrade back without reinstalling
[03:21] <robertj> that's a dirty apt secret, for the most part you can downgrade as well as upgrade
[03:22] <robertj> someone should try downgrading to slink from hoary for fun ;)
[03:22] <froust> it just says smp - it's for an amd proc
[03:22] <paul_> anybody know how to change the screen rez on a laptop in ubuntu?
[03:22] <lifeless> paul_: put grandr on your panel somewhere.
[03:23] <paul_> ok will try that
[03:23] <paul_> console?
[03:23] <lifeless> its listed as 'display geometry switcher' in the 'add to panel' dialog
[03:23] <souki> froust: smp is for multiprocessor or huper-threading cpu
[03:24] <lifeless> paul_: do you want to change it temporarily, or permanently ? what I suggested is for temporary changes,
[03:24] <souki> froust: I don't think amd has hyper-threading support
[03:24] <lifeless> paul_: for permanent, I'm not sure, editing the config file stops it being regenerated... daniels/fabbione what is the right thing ?
[03:25] <froust> souki: it does
[03:25] <froust> smp is symmetric multi processing - ie 2 cpus
[03:25] <froust> amd does have hyperthreading
[03:26] <paul_> nothing called geometry switcher
[03:26] <paul_> i cant hardly read the screen...riduculous
[03:26] <souki> froust: I didn't know, I thout it was a trademark for Intel P4
[03:27] <paul_> going back to xandros...at least they know how to build a distro
[03:27] <froust> sorry - amd has hypertransport
[03:27] <froust> which is the same thing, afaik
[03:28] <souki> froust: no, I don't think so, HT simulate 2 processor on a single
[03:29] <souki> froust: that's why you can run an smp-kernel on a single P4-HY
[03:29] <froust> then why does the amd64 k8 kernel support smp?
[03:29] <froust> nevermind
[03:29] <froust> that made no sense
[03:30] <souki> froust: you can have 2x or 4x processor
[03:30] <souki> froust: on a single board
[03:31] <froust> you're right - hypertransport is a way of addressing memory faster
[03:31] <froust> brb. new kernel
[03:34] <esac> why is firefox .9.3 .. i cant seem to install 1.0
[03:36] <izaac> esac: look the forums, the 3rd party projects
[03:36] <izaac> and check the ubuntu backports
[03:38] <robertj> Hrmm, Gnome needs a section for personal apps
[03:41] <nyktovus> anyone know why after install my sound is either ON, or OFF... no volume controls work, if the sound is up even 1% its blasting loud, anything above that doesnt affect the volume,
[03:41] <nyktovus> loud or off.
[03:41] <nyktovus> thats my choice.
[03:41] <wastrel> nyktovus: you need to adjust your mixer levels
[03:41] <nyktovus> how?
[03:41] <wastrel> are you using alsa?
[03:42] <nyktovus> how do i check?
[03:42] <wastrel> try alsamixer from the command line
[03:43] <nyktovus> why doesnt the volume adjustment work in the toolbar?
[03:43] <wastrel> all i know is it has to do with the mixer :]   i don't know much about sound stuff
[03:44] <nyktovus> so what do i do in the mixer..
[03:44] <nyktovus> i got it open
[03:44] <Guardiann> adjust the settings
[03:45] <nyktovus> ....ok
[03:45] <nyktovus> to what??
[03:45] <wastrel> whatever's comfortable :] 
[03:45] <wastrel> try the different channels
[03:45] <nyktovus> its not doing anything
[03:45] <wastrel> see which one fixes it so your gnome volume adjuster has a decent range
[03:45] <nyktovus> item Master [off] 
[03:45] <wastrel> you can use the arrow keys to move to a diff channel.
[03:46] <nyktovus> yes i can...
[03:46] <wastrel> left and right to move to diff chan.  up and down to adjust the chan volume.
[03:46] <nyktovus> ok..
[03:46] <nyktovus> are they supposed to say [off] 
[03:46] <nyktovus> ?
[03:46] <wastrel> some of them aren't used. ..  i don't really understand it.  i just fool around till my gnome volume thingy works :] 
[03:47] <Guardiann> :)
[03:50] <nyktovus> ok i got it
[03:51] <nyktovus> i had to make the volume control control "VIA DXS"
[03:51] <nyktovus> so how do i make everything use that
[03:51] <nyktovus> how do i turn the PCM off
[03:51] <nyktovus> or make VIA DXS default
[03:51] <nyktovus> or..
[03:53] <nyktovus> ?
[03:54] <Guardiann> doesnt appear that anyone has the answer
[03:54] <nyktovus> xmms is adjusting the wrong volume
[03:55] <nyktovus> how can i change it
[03:56] <wastrel> what do i put in /etc/fstab  to indicate a reiserfs partition   'reiserfs' ?
[03:57] <Dethread> man fstab
[03:57] <wastrel> heh i checked the wrong man
[03:57] <wastrel> i did man inittab
[03:58] <Dethread> :)
[04:03] <illogic-al> hello boys and girls
[04:04] <Guardiann> hi
[04:04] <mebaran> Hey could anybody here please help me with a dependency problem
[04:05] <mebaran> my gnome-panel wont install because it complains it needs libecal 1.2
[04:05] <mebaran> when only libecal 1.1.2 is available
[04:06] <mebaran> Any takers?
[04:06] <drspin> takers for what?
[04:07] <froust> i upgraded from the generic 2.6.10 amd64 kernel to the k8 one, and my display went screwy - any ideas why?
[04:07] <drspin> froust: maybe you need to reinstall that display drivers (NVIDIA or ATI)
[04:08] <mebaran> oh
[04:08] <mebaran> takers for a weird dependency problem
[04:08] <mebaran> Gnome wont install because it compalins that libecal 1.2 is unavailable
[04:08] <mebaran> when all I that is available is libecal 1.2
[04:09] <scoon> mebaran, are you warty or hoary
[04:09] <mebaran> Hoary
[04:09] <mebaran> I know Hoary is alpha
[04:09] <drspin> mebaran: I won't be much help there...
[04:09] <scoon> when did you last apt-get update ?
[04:09] <mebaran> but this would seem to be a problem that should be fixed
[04:09] <mebaran> 5 seconds ago
[04:09] <mebaran> about
[04:09] <mebaran> gnome-panel is the problem
[04:10] <froust> drspin, all i get is an empty panel and no menu
[04:10] <mebaran> yeah
[04:10] <mebaran> me too
[04:10] <scoon> mebaran, try apt-get check
[04:10] <scoon> what do you get ?
[04:10] <mebaran> the problem is Gnome panel wont install
[04:10] <mebaran> I did that
[04:10] <mebaran> scoon: ubuntu desktop relies on gnome panel
[04:10] <mebaran> gnome panel is uninstallable because libecal 1.2 is uninstallable
[04:10] <scoon> mebaran, i know that.  i am hoary with no problems.
[04:10] <mebaran> oh
[04:10] <mebaran> ok
[04:11] <mebaran> yeah
[04:11] <scoon> mebaran, i am running 2.9.4
[04:11] <mebaran> I just cut and paste the output from synaptic
[04:11] <mebaran> heheh synaptic sometimes sounds a little rude... so sorry
[04:11] <mebaran> but anyway
[04:12] <mebaran> scoon: what does your sourcelist look like
[04:12] <mebaran> maybe my mirrors are out of date
[04:13] <scoon> mebaran, i just use the original repos with hoary instead of warty
[04:13] <scoon> mebaran, i'd guess you have some other ones in there ?
[04:13] <mebaran> I am gnome 2.9.4
[04:14] <mebaran> on
[04:14] <mebaran> ok
[04:14] <mebaran> let me try that
[04:14] <mebaran> see if that hits the bell
[04:14] <scoon> mebaran, what are you trying ?
[04:14] <mebaran> oh
[04:14] <mebaran> scoon:
[04:14] <mebaran> I am going to add to my sourcelist
[04:14] <mebaran> my old warty repositories
[04:14] <mebaran> and see if some dependencies get cleared
[04:14] <scoon> mebaran, i don't have any warty's
[04:15] <jman> hello, anyone knows how to try suspend-to-ram in hoary?
[04:15] <scoon> mebaran, i changed warty to hoary
[04:15] <mebaran> oh
[04:15] <mebaran> I did similarly
[04:15] <mebaran> let me check and make sure
[04:15] <mebaran> but I think they were all changed
[04:16] <Crane> hello all!!!
[04:16] <mebaran> scoon: yep all changed
[04:16] <mebaran> I think this must be a bug
[04:17] <nyktovus> how can i make my sound device my "pcm" device?
[04:17] <mebaran> it looks like the version number was switched around
[04:17] <mebaran> 1.1.2 > 1.2.1
[04:18] <mebaran> Should someone inform the package maintainer?
[04:19] <scoon> mebaran, i guess you should.
[04:19] <mebaran> scoon: but on the plus side I have gotten really good at bash from having a useless gnome
[04:19] <scoon> mebaran, when i do an apt-cache search libecal, the correct version shows up.
[04:19] <mebaran> what is the correct version
[04:20] <mebaran> yeah me too
[04:20] <mebaran> hmm
[04:20] <mebaran> that is awfully strange
[04:21] <scoon> hmmmmmmm
[04:21] <scoon> mebaran, well well what do you know.  -> Version: 1.1.2-0ubuntu3
[04:21] <mebaran> yeah
[04:21] <mebaran> that is rather odd
[04:21] <scoon> mebaran, do you want some advice
[04:22] <tritium> mebaran, libecal1.2-1 is available
[04:22] <mebaran> ok
[04:22] <mebaran> from whence
[04:22] <mebaran> Synaptic complains it isnt
[04:22] <scoon> mebaran, do what i did: install a backup window manager.
[04:22] <mebaran> I would like to have my pretty Gnome back on
[04:22] <tritium> I just did apt-cache search libecal
[04:22] <mebaran> yeah
[04:22] <mebaran> if you go to synaptic
[04:22] <tritium> I'm using Hoary
[04:22] <mebaran> the version number is inverted
[04:22] <scoon> mebaran, like openbox or xfce has a nifty installer now.
[04:22] <mebaran> me too
[04:23] <scoon> tritium, its true, I am hoary and my gnome is just fine.
[04:23] <Meekle> hey does anyone know- i am trying to install a wireless card
[04:23] <scoon> tritium, but dpkg -p turns out the inverted version
[04:23] <nyktovus> whats a pcm device?
[04:23] <drspin> scoon: perhaps you installed it before he did ;)
[04:23] <scoon> possibly
[04:23] <Meekle> and it doesnt show up as a device?
[04:23] <mebaran> I just installed it today
[04:23] <mebaran> so that is very very possible
[04:23] <drspin> nyktovus: if /dev/pcm doesn't exist then you may need to load the sound driver
[04:23] <mebaran> my apt cache search reveals I have it though
[04:23] <Meekle> when i to iwconfig it shows lo eth0 and sit0 but that's it
[04:23] <mebaran> at 1.21
[04:24] <scoon> mebaran, it will prolly be ok by the morning.
[04:24] <mebaran> but I have to get some work done!
[04:24] <scoon> mebaran, well again, my advice to you is, "HAVE A BACKUP WINDOW MANAGER"
[04:24] <brian__> hlo ne one here?
[04:24] <nyktovus> well i have sound
[04:25] <mebaran> a tad late for that now....
[04:25] <mebaran> heheh
[04:25] <nyktovus> but i cant make xmms adjust it
[04:25] <tritium> I'm going too.
[04:25] <brian__> any one ever get a wacom tablet working in ubuntu?
[04:25] <scoon> mebaran, eh.  maybe.  maybe not.
[04:25] <nyktovus> i found how to make the toolbar volume control werk it..
[04:25] <mebaran> I will install XFCE as soon as I get it
[04:25] <robertj> how do you switch between gtk keyboard layouts?
[04:25] <scoon> mebaran, try the installer from their site.
[04:25] <robertj> is there a hotkey to do it?
[04:25] <brian__> theres a menu in the computer menu
[04:26] <izaac> ok if i do an apt-get install xfce4 it will appear in gdm automatic?
[04:26] <brian__> im not sure of any other wayy
[04:26] <mebaran> which installer
[04:26] <mebaran> ?
[04:26] <scoon> mebaran, http://www.os-cillation.com/article.php?sid=42
[04:26] <brian__> so back to my original question has anyone gotten a wacom tablet working in warty?
[04:27] <drspin> nyktovus: paste the results of "lsmod |grep pcm" in #flood
[04:27] <mebaran> doing an autoclean
[04:27] <robertj> brian: well i'm programming and I want to put in some foreign language chars so I don't want to have to be using a gui applet all the time
[04:28] <scoon> mebaran, you could also look at the apt-get man pages and consider using the force flag
[04:28] <mebaran> I dont want to break anything
[04:28] <mebaran> though
[04:28] <brian__> forgive for being stupid but doesnt unicode allow other kinds of characters?
[04:28] <scoon> mebaran, I know peeps will screem about that.  but your gnome is already AFU
[04:28] <mebaran> I might try to use the force
[04:28] <mebaran> heheh
[04:28] <mebaran> I didnt see that pun coming
[04:29] <mebaran> ok
[04:29] <mebaran> let me see how that goes
[04:29] <brian__> ok so im geussing no one can help me with my wacom
[04:29] <yorkomo> can anyone help me with this... I just changed my sources for hoary, did an apt-get update and then an apt-get dist-upgrade but nothing got installed
[04:29] <mebaran> scoon: if I use apt-get force
[04:29] <mebaran> can it later unforce itself
[04:29] <scoon> mebaran, to be honest, i don't know for certain.  I have never forced :(
[04:30] <mebaran> haha
[04:30] <brian__> :(
[04:30] <mebaran> you never had any fun then
[04:30] <brian__> maybe deb channel can help
[04:30] <scoon> mebaran, but if your gnome is already broken, does it matter all that much?
[04:30] <mebaran> haha
[04:30] <mebaran> it really isnt that broken
[04:30] <nyktovus> snd_pcm_oss            48168  1
[04:30] <nyktovus> snd_mixer_oss          16640  3 snd_pcm_oss
[04:30] <nyktovus> snd_pcm                85540  2 snd_via82xx,snd_pcm_oss
[04:30] <nyktovus> snd_timer              23172  1 snd_pcm
[04:30] <nyktovus> snd_page_alloc         11144  2 snd_via82xx,snd_pcm
[04:30] <nyktovus> snd                    50660  87 snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device
[04:30] <nyktovus> (sorry)
[04:30] <gpled> anyone using ubuntu on ppc?
[04:30] <mebaran> I can get a terminal by right clicking
[04:30] <scoon> nice.
[04:31] <drspin> nyktovus: "ls -al /dev/pcm
[04:31] <drspin> "
[04:31] <mebaran> that is the way I started xchat
[04:31] <yorkomo> anyone?
[04:31] <HAns67> unable to install on IBM 733mhz PIII - will boot from CD, but won't mount CD to start install
[04:31] <nyktovus> ls: /dev/pcm: No such file or directory
[04:31] <mebaran> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[04:31] <mebaran>   gnome-panel: Depends: libecal1.2-0 (>= 1.1.2) but it is not installable
[04:31] <mebaran> E: Broken packages
[04:32] <Markrian> yorkomo, what exactly did you change in sources.list
[04:32] <mebaran> Building Dependency Tree... Done
[04:32] <mebaran> libecal1.2-1 is already the newest version.
[04:32] <mebaran> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
[04:32] <mebaran> haha
[04:32] <yorkomo> I created a new sources.list, backed up the old one and then I copied and pasted from the hoary guide
[04:32] <scoon> mebaran, have you logged out and then back in ?
[04:32] <mebaran> it cant realize the libecal1.2-1 > libecal1.2-0
[04:32] <mebaran> yeah
[04:32] <scoon> mebaran, have you restarted gdm ?
[04:32] <mebaran> reboot too
[04:33] <Markrian> yorkomo, you were using warty beforehand I take it?
[04:33] <mebaran> yep
[04:33] <mebaran> I will try it again though
[04:33] <yorkomo> Markrian: yes
[04:33] <drspin> nyktovus: are you using warty or hoary?
[04:33] <scoon> mebaran, well that is odd.  it will prolly be different in the morning.  maybe fixed, but definately different.  this is the fun of risking non-stable
[04:33] <Markrian> yorkomo, paste a line from your sources.list
[04:33] <robertj> even with the keyboard indicator applet I cant seem to change groups
[04:34] <robertj> or change the languages in a group
[04:34] <mebaran> ok logged in and out
[04:34] <Markrian> yorkomo, or, link me to the page you created the new sources.list from
[04:34] <robertj> having a single group with "US" doesn't help that much
[04:34] <nyktovus> uhhhh
[04:34] <nyktovus> i dunno
[04:34] <nyktovus> which is stable
[04:34] <drspin> warty
[04:34] <mebaran> And voila
[04:34] <mebaran> nothing changed
[04:35] <scoon> mebaran, try this:
[04:35] <scoon> mebaran, log out.
[04:35] <scoon> mebaran, go to a virtual terminal
[04:35] <yorkomo> ## The following lines pertain to security updates:
[04:35] <yorkomo> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security main restricted
[04:35] <yorkomo> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security main restricted
[04:35] <mebaran> how do I logout
[04:35] <mebaran> from an x terminal
[04:35] <drspin> logout
[04:36] <Markrian> yorkomo, is that the entire contents of your new sources.list?
[04:36] <mebaran> I mean from gdm
[04:36] <yorkomo> no
[04:36] <yorkomo> ## The following lines pertain to supported packages:
[04:36] <yorkomo> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted
[04:36] <yorkomo> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted
[04:36] <stuNNed> what are you guys trying to do?
[04:36] <scoon> mebaran, and log in and then do a top -U $(whomami)
[04:36] <scoon> mebaran, kill all of the leftover procs.
[04:36] <scoon> once that is done sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start
[04:36] <scoon> and try and log in
[04:37] <mebaran> never seen top
[04:37] <scoon> mebaran, i have found that a lot of proc's hang out after my gnome session ends.
[04:37] <mebaran> how do I kill them all
[04:37] <yorkomo> like i said, I took the sources.list and copied and pasted into a new sources from this page
[04:37] <yorkomo> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GuideToHoary
[04:37] <drspin> scoon: Good Idea :) :)
[04:37] <scoon> drspin, I do it all the time.
[04:38] <scoon> drspin, in fact, if there is some new gnome with a hoary update, i apt-get after i kill all the leftovers.
[04:38] <Markrian> yorkomo, double check the name of the file and that you've actually saved changes (bear with me)
[04:38] <mebaran> none of the prcos listed seem to be remotely related to apt-get
[04:38] <mebaran> all bash
[04:38] <yorkomo> yeah, I saved it sources.list
[04:38] <yorkomo> and I took the warty one and saved it as sources.list.br
[04:38] <Markrian> ok
[04:39] <Markrian> After that, do "apt-get update", "apt-get upgrade" and THEN "apt-get dist-upgrade"
[04:39] <mebaran> no dice
[04:39] <scoon> mebaran, not related to apt, but gnome leaves some procs around
[04:39] <mebaran> ok
[04:39] <mebaran> let me see if I can kill them all
[04:39] <scoon> are you on the box w/ the broken gnome now
[04:40] <mebaran> right this second yeah
[04:40] <scoon> mebaran, or do you have something else that you are irc with
[04:40] <mebaran> just moved on it
[04:40] <drspin> what are some good internet radio stations? Althernative
[04:40] <mebaran> I have my laptop on right now
[04:40] <mebaran> at my desk
[04:40] <scoon> drspin, check out streamtuner
[04:40] <Markrian> www.spinfm.co.uk
[04:40] <brian__> k debian can help me, they called ubuntu users "touchy feely" btw
[04:40] <yorkomo> so, all I did wrong was dist-upgrade too soon?
[04:40] <brian__> cant8
[04:40] <scoon> mebaran, log out of gnome
[04:41] <scoon> mebaran, then get yourself a virtual terminal
[04:41] <esac> has anybody gotten evolution 2.0 working with an exchange server ?
[04:41] <scoon> and follow the steps I laid out for you
[04:41] <mebaran> ok
[04:41] <drspin> Spin FM is off air at the moment, however the listen live page will return when we are next on air
[04:41] <Markrian> yorkomo, it's generally wise to upgrade before dis-upgrade, but that certainly shouldn't have resulted in NOTHING happening...
[04:41] <yorkomo> well, do I need to logout or something of gnome?
[04:41] <yorkomo> I mean, I am on x-chat...
[04:42] <Markrian> No
[04:42] <yorkomo> ok, just checking
[04:42] <Markrian> Have a look at what "apt-cache policy" gives you
[04:42] <lmurillo> hello *
[04:42] <yorkomo> well, i just did the dist-upgrade and it's still working
[04:42] <yorkomo> I ccn do the apt-cache policy if you want in a new terminal
[04:43] <Markrian> yeah, as long as you've done update
[04:43] <lmurillo> I want to know if anyone has seen on the internet a HowTo on installing Ubuntu on an IBM ThinkPad R51
[04:43] <BROKEN_LADDER> how can i change the keymap that the gdm is using?
[04:43] <yorkomo> I dunno what this means
[04:43] <yorkomo> but there is a lot of sources here that I had
[04:44] <yorkomo> http://security.ubuntu.com hoary-security/restricted Packages  --- etc
[04:44] <Markrian> well it mentions hoary, so that's a good sign...
[04:44] <yorkomo> yeah, I hope so...
[04:44] <Markrian> Did you not have any mention of hoary in your old sources.list?
[04:44] <yorkomo> lemme check
[04:45] <oggb4mp3_> Hi
[04:45] <BROKEN_LADDER> wtf..does ubuntu use xf86 or xorg?
[04:45] <oggb4mp3_> I just booted ubuntu warty for the first time
[04:45] <BROKEN_LADDER> oggb4mp3_: great nick.  i've been a vorbis fanatic for years.
[04:45] <HrdwrBoB> warty uses xf86
[04:45] <HrdwrBoB> hoary uses xorg
[04:45] <yorkomo> no
[04:45] <BROKEN_LADDER> why on earth does it use xf86?
[04:45] <BROKEN_LADDER> what is hoary?
[04:45] <HrdwrBoB> because it does.
[04:46] <yorkomo> I had some references to back ports
[04:46] <yorkomo> but no hoary
[04:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> that's a very informative answer.
[04:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> not.
[04:46] <HrdwrBoB> BROKEN_LADDER: the unstable development version, out in april
[04:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> hmmm..
[04:46] <HrdwrBoB> it uses xf86 because that's what was there, packaged and working
[04:46] <oggb4mp3_> How come ubuntu calls some apps by thier names and others by their functions?  It's not consistent
[04:47] <Markrian> Warty was a first release! Cut it some slack people!
[04:47] <yorkomo> I like ubuntu
[04:48] <imnes> Is there a FAQ or anything that lists what groups my user account should belong to?  Certain things (like auto drive mounting) are working under root but not under my user account?
[04:48] <brian__> anyone noe wat module-assistant does?
[04:48] <yorkomo> it is my first experience treading on *nix
[04:48] <scoon> me too.  best thing i have run yet.
[04:48] <oggb4mp3_> I'm not criticizing, I'm just curios if there was a reason
[04:48] <yorkomo> aside from coding on the CS comp's at the university
[04:49] <illogic-al> Markrian, 4.1 doesn't sound like a frst release to me...
[04:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> holy hell, has anyone seen the new daps a iriveramerica.com?
[04:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> oggb4mp3_: have you seen them?
[04:49] <brian__> why does this channel ignore my questions? ><
[04:49] <Markrian> illogic-al, is that a joke?
[04:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> brian__: if no one knows an answer to your question, we really can't help.
[04:49] <illogic-al> no
[04:49] <brian__> kk
[04:50] <BROKEN_LADDER> i know it's frustrating though to not even hear a response.
[04:50] <oggb4mp3_> Are you talking about the h20
[04:50] <lmurillo> great, I find out that the IBM notebooks are fully supported under Linux  :D
[04:50] <Markrian> illogic-al, Ubuntu give release numbers according to the date of release
[04:50] <lmurillo> I'm gone, gotta get back to work
[04:50] <BROKEN_LADDER> try other channels, ask again at a later time, check google, etc.
[04:50] <Markrian> ie, 4.10 (note the zero) means October 2004
[04:50] <brian__> ok
[04:50] <oggb4mp3_> BROKEN_LADDER, no vorbis support
[04:50] <oggb4mp3_> no UMS file system
[04:50] <nortoncillo> hi to all
[04:50] <oggb4mp3_> :(
[04:51] <nortoncillo> i have a quit question
[04:51] <brian__> thats what i was doing i akes a while ago a more general q now i asked a more concise one, k imma google this
[04:51] <Guardiann> brian heres your answer
[04:51] <illogic-al> Markrian. it's kinda missing a few numbers then isn't it?
[04:51] <Guardiann>  tool to make module package creation easier
[04:51] <nortoncillo> how do i kick an ssh user?
[04:51] <HrdwrBoB> illogic-al: no, not really
[04:51] <brian__> ok
[04:51] <oggb4mp3_> one problem with ubuntu is that there is no amaroK
[04:52] <brian__> i find rythm box pretty gud for my needs
[04:52] <BROKEN_LADDER> oggb4mp3_: i just read that.  jesus i hate m$
[04:52] <BROKEN_LADDER> m$ has  their hands all over that bitch.
[04:52] <yorkomo> all over what?
[04:52] <stub> Thanks to vbetool, I've now got this Dell8600 laptop suspending to RAM, except that when it wakes the external USB mouse is no longer working. Can someone point me to a tool that might let me reset that stuff?
[04:53] <oggb4mp3_> my ifp-799 has native vorbis support and UMS firmware
[04:53] <oggb4mp3_> amaroK has awesome features and cool devs
[04:53] <Guardiann> think its just simply the 10th mnth of 2004
[04:53] <daniels> that's all it is, yes
[04:53] <daniels> october 2004
[04:53] <illogic-al> aye. amarok _is_ awesome
[04:53] <daniels> hoary in april 2005 will be 5.04
[04:54] <Guardiann> hello daniels
[04:54] <mebaran> scoon: Nope
[04:54] <imnes> Isn't amarok kde?  I think ubuntu is sticking to just gnome / gtk apps.
[04:54] <mebaran> I did figure out an ingenious way to kill everything involved with gnome
[04:54] <Markrian> illogic-al, yes, they omitted "200"
[04:54] <mebaran> gnome*
[04:55] <Guardiann> how is hoary coming along
[04:55] <mebaran> i cant get it to work
[04:55] <illogic-al> lol. well ubuntu looks interesting folks but like every other linux distro it freezes whenever nvidia drivers are installed :-(
[04:56] <mebaran> illogical: mine nvidia drivers worked fine
[04:56] <imnes> nvidia working fine here
[04:56] <scoon> same here
[04:56] <HrdwrBoB> and here
[04:56] <scoon> 6629
[04:56] <illogic-al> not really an ubuntu problem. kernel madness I suppose
[04:56] <brian__> omg this is so cool i found out how to map my media keys w/o lineak
[04:56] <imnes> What card do you have?
[04:56] <blair> does anyone know how to get an ati radeon card working?
[04:56] <Crane> I've never had nvidia freeze up a system
[04:57] <illogic-al> imnes, ti 4200
[04:57] <imnes> blair: doesn't ati have linux drivers for download now?
[04:57] <Crane> illogic-al, Why do you think it's kernel?
[04:57] <Markrian> illogic-al, I have that card
[04:57] <Markrian> It's fine
[04:57] <Markrian> What motherboard do you have?
[04:57] <imnes> yeah that ti 4200 should be fine.
[04:57] <mebaran> It could be a bad apggart module ro something
[04:57] <illogic-al> k7s5a mobo
[04:57] <mebaran> probably a motherboard problem
[04:57] <Markrian> ugh, SiS chipset
[04:57] <Markrian> There's your problem ;o
[04:58] <illogic-al> mebaran, yeah, it's a mobo thing
[04:58] <Crane> illogic-al, you said like all other distros?
[04:58] <blair> yes, in fact ubutu has binaries of them.  I installed, but I don't know what to do next
[04:58] <daniels> illogic-al: or, rather, a problem with the nvidia driver which no-one except them can fixed
[04:58] <daniels> s/fixed/fix/
[04:58] <Markrian> Consider at least doing a BIOS firmware flash
[04:58] <yorkomo> hrm
[04:58] <yorkomo> this is interesting
[04:58] <yorkomo> it held somethings back from the dist-upgrade
[04:58] <blair> All I did was install the binary, and rebooted, still not working, I don't know what to do next
[04:59] <daniels> blair: you might want to see the instructions at http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto
[04:59] <daniels> or BinaryDriversHowto, rather
[05:01] <yorkomo> x-window-system-core
[05:01] <blair> awesome.  that was exactly what I was looking for thanks
[05:01] <mebaran> Anybody else experiencing dependency hell in hoary?
[05:02] <mebaran> scoon: I tried what you said.
[05:02] <mebaran> Looks like a weird bug.
[05:02] <mebaran> Maybe I should reinstall apt?
[05:02] <scoon> mebaran, i don't think it has anything to do w/ apt
[05:03] <scoon> mebaran, i'd go and seek out the ubuntu bugzilla and see if you can't find your bug there.
[05:03] <Guardiann> how is hoary coming along
[05:03] <mebaran> guardiann: I am in dependency hell with Hoary.
[05:04] <Guardiann> glad i stuck with warty :)
[05:04] <brian__> arent those wonderful names? :P
[05:04] <Guardiann> they are very unique
[05:05] <mebaran> Let me go check bugzilla
[05:05] <Guardiann> smart move stunned
[05:05] <stuNNed> Guardiann, heh
[05:05] <mebaran> could someone type the url
[05:05] <Markrian> Hoary is in heavy development, so expect breakages of anything and everything and then you won't be surprised.
[05:05] <mebaran> Yeah
[05:05] <mebaran> I usually enjoy testing things.
[05:05] <mebaran> But I do like BASIC things working.
[05:06] <mebaran> like a gnome desktop that booted
[05:06] <mebaran> and a grub that actually runs
[05:06] <Markrian> But, aptitude is a fantastic tool - learn it, use it
[05:06] <mebaran> haha
[05:06] <mebaran> aptitude is
[05:06] <scoon> eh
[05:06] <scoon> i like plain old apt-get from CLI
[05:06] <mebaran> for somethings
[05:06] <brian__> i googled aptitude once got nothing what is it?
[05:06] <mebaran> imho apt-get is better
[05:06] <scoon> that way when gnome breaks and I get lazy i have a virt term to the rescue
[05:06] <mebaran> yes
[05:07] <mebaran> I have gotten very good at bash
[05:07] <mebaran> I was so pampered
[05:07] <mebaran> with all the pretty icons and all the checkboxes
[05:07] <Markrian> aptitude can do nice things like remove orphaned libraries when you remove the app that depended on them in the first place
[05:07] <mebaran> oh the cruel world, thou hast burdened me such
[05:07] <brian__> o dat is wonderful :D
[05:07] <Guardiann>  Aptitude is a new APT frontend which aims to test the limits of what an APT frontend can do
[05:08] <brian__> i always hated that, leaving unneeded packages in my system
[05:08] <Markrian> there is also deborphan, if you're a sworn apt-getter
[05:08] <brian__> replacement to synaptic?
[05:08] <Markrian> yup
[05:08] <Markrian> but not GTK2 based
[05:08] <brian__> uh oh im kinda attached to my synap
[05:08] <brian__> o
[05:10] <mebaran> Anybody up for grappling a GRUB problem too?
[05:10] <mebaran> this dependency hell hasnt been found yet.
[05:10] <mebaran> let me type the address to ubuntu, as I havent any icons
[05:10] <mebaran> www.ubuntu.com
[05:11] <Markrian> mebaran, go on, try me
[05:11] <Markrian> I really should be writing an essay about the biology of angiosperms, but I've put that off so many times once more couldn't hurt
[05:12] <Guardiann> lol
[05:12] <BROKEN_LADDER> angiosperm means "seed in a container"
[05:13] <brian__> "curses-based apt frontend" aptitude, hmm i didnt noe i had it installed
[05:13] <BROKEN_LADDER> i remember that from 1991 seventh grade biology
[05:13] <Guardiann> Angiosprems are vascular plants.  They have stems, roots, and leaves.
[05:13] <scoon> hey now
[05:13] <scoon> is this #porn
[05:13] <brian__> ...
[05:13] <scoon> what happened to ubuntu
[05:13] <drspin> anyone interested in helping me fix an easy dependency issue?
[05:13] <drspin> (I think it's easy)
[05:14] <Guardiann> :)
[05:14] <mebaran> Ok
[05:14] <Cyberjames> hi
[05:14] <BROKEN_LADDER> gymnosperms do also
[05:14] <brian__> o i thought u thought that this was that channel
[05:14] <mebaran> GRUB doesnt seem to parse my menu.lst.
[05:14] <mebaran> or read my boot partition
[05:14] <BROKEN_LADDER> however, the seeds in gymnosperms are not contained.
[05:14] <Markrian> Guardiann, er, you just described angiosperms, gymnosperms, and pretty much every other type of plant ther e;o
[05:14] <mebaran> and can only load the initial install kernel
[05:14] <mebaran> update-grub complained that I needed to make /boot/grub
[05:14] <Guardiann> lol
[05:14] <mebaran> so I did
[05:15] <mebaran> and I ran update-grbu
[05:15] <mebaran> the menu fills out with all the kernels I installed
[05:15] <BROKEN_LADDER> all taxonomic groups higher than species are purely arbitrary
[05:15] <drspin> I'm Compiling streamTuner and it seems that it requires taglib - which I also have compiled and installed... when I compile StreamTuner it says it can't find it...
[05:15] <mebaran> BROKEN: no
[05:15] <BROKEN_LADDER> they absoluely are.
[05:15] <Markrian> They're not
[05:15] <mebaran> broken ladder: they are fit to try to describe evoltuionary path
[05:15] <BROKEN_LADDER> you arbitrarily choose which point in the nested hierarchy where you want to call something a distinct new "group"
[05:15] <mebaran> how that is determined is the great debate
[05:16] <mebaran> well I guess you could say that
[05:16] <BROKEN_LADDER> of course they fit the evolutionary path.
[05:16] <mebaran> yeah
[05:16] <mebaran> so they arent arbitrary
[05:16] <BROKEN_LADDER> yes they are
[05:16] <mebaran> I cant put archezoans in with animalia
[05:16] <mebaran> it isnt completely random
[05:16] <BROKEN_LADDER> the acutual groups are arbitrary.
[05:16] <mebaran> ahhhh
[05:16] <BROKEN_LADDER> i know that of course.
[05:16] <mebaran> I guess that could be argued
[05:16] <mebaran> my biology courses have paid off....
[05:16] <Markrian> BROKEN_LADDER, that's beside the point anyway. Angiosperms are a pretty damn well defined division of Plantae
[05:17] <mebaran> I have to admit Markrian is right
[05:17] <BROKEN_LADDER> but it's arbitrary where in the tree you want to call some set of organisms with common ancestry a new strata of group, such as phylum, class, order, etc.
[05:17] <mebaran> some of the groups have some pretty big arching characteristics
[05:17] <mebaran> I have seen about 20 different ways though of phylogeny, with my biology book listing about 8 different trees.
[05:18] <wastrel> well it's all eukaryotes from my perspective :] 
[05:18] <mebaran> haha
[05:18] <mebaran> eukaryotes are where the future lies.
[05:18] <Markrian> I'd just like to ask everyone to stand back and observe just *how* off-topic this is...
[05:18] <wastrel> speaking of wich want to hear my biology joke?
[05:18] <Markrian> Quite impressive
[05:18] <BROKEN_LADDER> say that A and B had a common ancestor C, and E and F had a common ancestor G.  C and G could be called a "family".  Or you could make the family refer to the ancestor of C and G.
[05:18] <wastrel> Q: What does the 'H' in "Jesus H. Christ" stand for?
[05:19] <wastrel> A: Haploid
[05:19] <BROKEN_LADDER> lol
[05:19] <BROKEN_LADDER> i'm from kansas.
[05:19] <wastrel> if you ever want to see a blank stare tell that to a non-biologist :] 
[05:19] <BROKEN_LADDER> i saw this lawyer from berkeley speak at KU once, talking about how evolution is a shoddy bunch of rubbish.
[05:19] <Markrian> wastrel, er, I don't get it...?
[05:19] <Markrian> Oh wait
[05:19] <mebaran> youre not supposed to
[05:19] <mebaran> its a biology joke
[05:20] <mebaran> but anyway
[05:20] <BROKEN_LADDER> people in Kansas just don't understand evolution at all.  they think fossils of our ancestor are just people who had diseases that deformed them.
[05:20] <mebaran> back to GRUB
[05:20] <Markrian> I just remember the whole virgin mary thing ;o
[05:20] <mebaran> Does anyone have any idea how to make grub see my other kernels?
[05:20] <BROKEN_LADDER> back to linux. yawn.
[05:20] <BROKEN_LADDER> can i make the resolution in grub higher?
[05:20] <mebaran> I have run updapte-grub.
[05:20] <BROKEN_LADDER> so that it looks all cool.
[05:20] <mebaran> Reinstalled grub both package wise and regularwise
[05:21] <Markrian> mebaran, warty or hoary?
[05:21] <Markrian> And did it ever work before?
[05:21] <wastrel> you could edit your grub.conf (?)  i dunno the ubuntu way but that's how i do it...
[05:21] <BROKEN_LADDER> hmm
[05:21] <Markrian> mebaran, and I presume you installed new kernels via APT? Or were they handjobs?
[05:21] <Markrian> Excuse the term
[05:22] <mebaran> apt
[05:22] <mebaran> I dont do handjobs
[05:22] <Markrian> I'm sure you don't.
[05:22] <Markrian> Erm
[05:22] <mebaran> I have checked
[05:22] <drspin> anyone installed or used taglib?
[05:22] <mebaran> the files exit in boot
[05:22] <Markrian> Is /boot a separate partition from / ?
[05:22] <BROKEN_LADDER>      
[05:22] <mebaran> yes it is
[05:22] <mebaran> and i Have it at the start of the disk
[05:22] <BROKEN_LADDER> it depends how you partitioned your system.
[05:23] <mebaran> all the kernel images lie there
[05:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> that's up to you.
[05:23] <mebaran> but GRUB complains when I select one that the file doesnt exit
[05:23] <mebaran> exist
[05:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> oh wait..no no, yeah those two have to be separate i think..
[05:23] <Markrian> Only one of the kernels boots from grub then?
[05:23] <mebaran> I can type the later 's' as I have a typing li#p
[05:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> anyone else using reiser?
[05:23] <mebaran> all EXT3 on my side
[05:24] <mebaran> safe and conservative
[05:24] <Markrian> ditto
[05:24] <BROKEN_LADDER> safe and conservative.heh.
[05:24] <mebaran> but how do I make grub work
[05:24] <wastrel> i have reiser on my gentoo system
[05:24] <mebaran> I am so close to trying to find another bootloader
 Only one of the kernels boots from grub then?
[05:24] <BROKEN_LADDER> it's always 283k here on my temperature applet.
[05:24] <mebaran> only one
[05:24] <BROKEN_LADDER> never really varies.
[05:24] <mebaran> it doesnt matter which one I select
[05:24] <mebaran> or how the symlinks are changed
[05:24] <mebaran> always AMD Generic 2.6.8.3
[05:24] <mebaran> they same one that came out of my install
[05:25] <mebaran> all the others get a FILE NOT FOUND error
[05:25] <mebaran> even when the file is blatantly existing
[05:25] <Markrian> 2 possiblities:
[05:25] <siimo> is the ubuntu time server messed up?
[05:25] <Markrian> 1, grub is broken for you
[05:25] <siimo> it set my clock 1 hr behind when i installed ubuntu on this PC
[05:26] <siimo> the clock was correct before installing
[05:26] <scoon> laters all
[05:26] <rob0> siimo, sounds like a time zone or daylight savings issue
[05:26] <Markrian> 2, somehow Ubuntu messed up when considering that /boot is a separate partition. In which case, you might have to look through and understand menu.lst yourself and verify everything
[05:26] <siimo> rob0, yeah but daylight saving has been on for over 2 months here
[05:26] <tux> ok, so how do I fix my gnome-panel.. apt claims I can't install this package..  libecal1.2-0
[05:26] <mebaran> I checked menu.lst
[05:26] <siimo> its not anything recent
[05:26] <mebaran> It looks accurate
[05:27] <mebaran> all the files point correctly
[05:27] <mebaran> if my boot partition is my first partition (hd0,0) should be correct
[05:27] <mebaran> for the root
[05:27] <Markrian> with decent (hd#,#) references?
[05:27] <mebaran> I believe so
[05:27] <mebaran> the one kernel that boots has the same references as the rest
[05:27] <Markrian> right
[05:28] <mebaran> I think I have bad luck with packages starting with "G"
[05:28] <siimo> is there a way to manually check up a timezone on the ubuntu ntp server?
[05:28] <mebaran> siimo: why?
[05:28] <siimo> i think im jus going to remove ntp
[05:28] <rob0> siimo, try pool.ntp.org. or $X.pool.ntp.org. where X=your country code
[05:28] <siimo> it sets my clock 1 hr back?
[05:28] <Markrian> I'm not in Ubuntu right now so I'm not sure how it does it, but are you sure everything in /boot, kernel wise, are real files, and not links?
[05:28] <mebaran> yes
[05:28] <mebaran> I believe so
[05:29] <mebaran> GNOME labels the only symlinks as vmlinuz and initrd
[05:29] <mebaran> which is fine
[05:29] <mebaran> because they link to the right file
[05:29] <siimo> mebaran, it sets incorrect time
[05:29] <mebaran> my K8 2.6.10 kenrel
[05:29] <siimo> rob0, yes i got the page but does it show the correct time anywhere?
[05:29] <mebaran> siimo: oh ok
[05:30] <mebaran> the symlink seems accurate
[05:30] <mebaran> but when I tell it to boot the symlink reference
[05:30] <siimo> ok forget it
[05:30] <mebaran> it complies but boots the generic 2.6.8 reference
[05:30] <siimo> i dont need sync anyway
[05:30] <mebaran> siimo: you could be dishonest and give it an incorrect timezone.
[05:30] <Markrian> mebaran, I don't know what's going on then
[05:30] <mebaran> siimo: maybe DST is messing something up
[05:30] <mebaran> yeah
[05:31] <mebaran> it really really baffles me
[05:31] <siimo> mebaran, no i gave correct timezone
[05:31] <Markrian> Try lilo perhaps, or downgrade grub a version
[05:31] <mebaran> how do I get lilo
[05:31] <Markrian> I hate lilo though :p
[05:31] <mebaran> lilo should be fine for my needs
[05:31] <siimo> NZDT is my timezone currently and i picked the correct one in the installer
[05:31] <Markrian> apt-get lilo should do it :o
[05:31] <rob0> siimo, I mean "sudo ntpdate pool.ntp.org."
[05:33] <siimo> rob0, thanks that fixed it but i have to remove the ubuntu timeserver
[05:33] <rob0> it's in somewhere like /etc/default/ntp
[05:33] <rob0> I changed it too, because I run my own local ntpd on another machine
[05:33] <siimo> ok
[05:34] <drspin> could someone help me install and configure taglib?
[05:34] <rob0> I'm surprised, I figured you'd have the same error with another timeserver :)
[05:35] <drspin> please?
[05:35] <mebaran> what is taglib
[05:35] <rob0> I dunno what taglib is
[05:36] <rob0> but I *did* see the question
[05:36] <drspin> http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/taglib.html
[05:36] <drspin> I need it for StreamTuner
[05:36] <Markrian> drspin, apt-get install taglib...?
[05:36] <mebaran> How do I downgrade a package?
[05:36] <drspin> http://www.nongnu.org/streamtuner/
[05:36] <mebaran> I think I might just down grade the package
[05:37] <drspin> Markrian: it's not in ANY of the repos
[05:37] <Markrian> libtag1
[05:37] <Markrian> ;o
[05:38] <Markrian> or whatever
[05:38] <Markrian> apt-cache search taglib
[05:38] <drspin> all Makefile s should have a make uninstall ;)
[05:38] <Markrian> and you'll find the real name
[05:38] <oggb4mp3_> okay, I have played around and officially decided I don't like ubunto, mostly because I am not a GNOME fan.
[05:38] <oggb4mp3_> Sorry, don't take it personal
[05:38] <Markrian> drspin, yes, it's nice - but I NEVER make install anything anymore
[05:39] <oggb4mp3_> goodnite, thanks for your time
[05:39] <siimo> oggb4mp3_, so? ubuntu is not gnome
[05:39] <drspin> Markrian: some things you just can't live without
[05:39] <mebaran> haha
[05:39] <Markrian> like?
[05:39] <mebaran> could anybody please inform me as to the method by which one might downgrade a package
[05:39] <Markrian> oggb4mp3_, KDE is coming to hoary soon
[05:39] <drspin> checking for TagLib - version >= 1.2... no
[05:39] <drspin> LOL
[05:39] <Markrian> Or is in it? Hmm
[05:40] <oggb4mp3_> no but that is the interface, give me kde packages and I might change my mind
[05:40] <mebaran> you can get KDE for ubuntu
[05:40] <oggb4mp3_> I'll keep watching
[05:40] <mebaran> but then ubuntu is really just Debian
[05:40] <siimo> oggb4mp3_, apt-get install kde
[05:40] <Markrian> well, that's a bit much
[05:40] <drspin> that's with 1.3 installed from compilation AND 1.1 installed from the repos
[05:40] <siimo> oggb4mp3_, if you run hoary thats not offically supported yet
[05:40] <Markrian> kdebase is a better place to start
[05:41] <adoyretsamon> sorry
[05:41] <siimo> hmmm md5sum mismatch if i change mirrors for apt
[05:41] <siimo> only archive.ubuntu.com works
[05:41] <froust> without it degenerating into a flamewar, can anyone tell me some of the differenced between gnome and kde?
[05:42] <oggb4mp3_> There are lots more reasons (maybe excuses) other than the GNOME one, I'll keep watching though.  Thanks again for your time tonight.
[05:42] <dr_willis> KDe uses the QT libs. Gnome uses the GTK libs - is the 'core' of it i think :p
[05:42] <root__> howdie
[05:42] <dr_willis> or is it GTK+  - i forghet.
[05:43] <yorkomo> is there anyway to go back to warty from hoary using apt-get or something?
[05:43] <Markrian> drspin, if I were you I'd add Debian sid to my sources.list and Pin all packages from there so they're not installed by default, but force-install libtag from sid
[05:43] <Markrian> that's 1.3.1
[05:43] <dr_willis> you really should add a new user then irc as that user yorkomo
[05:43] <dr_willis> :P
[05:43] <froust> i mean function more than the basics
[05:43] <Riddell> froust: gnome has done very well at simplifying user interfaces, KDE is more integrated and consistent and much easier to develop for (my opinions of course)
[05:43] <drspin> Markrian: what??
[05:43] <yorkomo> xorg is broken
[05:43] <yorkomo> :(*
[05:43] <yorkomo> and now I cannot do anything
[05:43] <Riddell> Markrian: no
[05:43] <Riddell> yorkomo, not Markrian
[05:44] <yorkomo> :(
[05:44] <Markrian> I was gonna say!
[05:44] <yorkomo> damn
[05:44] <dr_willis> you could almost say that Gnome is more like OS-X , and KDE is more like windows.. but KDE blows windows away
[05:44] <dr_willis> :P
[05:44] <yorkomo> now I gotta reinstall
[05:44] <yorkomo> blah
[05:44] <Markrian> drspin, maybe pinning is a bit advanced
[05:44] <yorkomo> oh well, I felt cool for a minute
[05:44] <dr_willis> of course both kde and gnome are sort of  getting closer to each other. :P whichis good in many ways
[05:44] <brian__> windows feels smoother than kde to me imo
[05:44] <yorkomo> exit
[05:44] <yorkomo> quit
[05:45] <Markrian> Go to packages.debian.org, search for libtag in unstable, and download the .deb file, and install it with dpkg
[05:45] <Markrian> maybe
[05:45] <brian__> when i was using kde tool tips would pop up outta no where and disrupt me
[05:45] <BROKEN_LADDER> how do i edit the applications menu?
[05:45] <brian__> nautilus applications://
[05:45] <Markrian> BROKEN_LADDER, Nautilus -> applications:
[05:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> System wide.
[05:46] <Markrian> applications-all-users:
[05:46] <brian__> dam i used to noe dat..
[05:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> that doesn't work.
[05:46] <brian__> dere it is
[05:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> i've tried it.
[05:46] <Markrian> but you have to gksudo nautilus for that
[05:46] <siimo> yeah i had a question i asked here a while ago - how do i get the gnome desktop preferences under the gnome Main Menu ? like a vanilla gnome install ?
[05:46] <brian__> o
[05:46] <BROKEN_LADDER> gksudo?
[05:46] <Markrian> like sudo, but for Gnome/GTK
[05:47] <siimo> i dont like the menu bar where you have to click on multiple menus
[05:47] <drspin> I have the .deb file now how do I upgarde??
[05:47] <brian__> dpkg -i in term?
[05:47] <drspin> just the one package
[05:48] <froust> where is this nautilus things?
[05:48] <mebaran> I am going to probably have to reinstall I just realized
[05:48] <Markrian> drspin, "sudo dpkg -i /home/me/libtagwhatever.deb"
[05:48] <brian__> k i wasnt the one helping u so i dont noe ne thing lol
[05:48] <froust> I know it's gnomes thing, but I haven';t seen it anywhere
[05:48] <mebaran> how are all the menus going to be update liek they are supposed to
[05:48] <adoyretsamon> wow... updating to hoary ... wow... 300mb
[05:48] <Markrian> adoyretsamon, count yourself lucky - not even half a CD!
[05:48] <brian__> yup
[05:49] <adoyretsamon> yea
[05:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> i cannot comprehend why spatial mode is the default.
[05:49] <adoyretsamon> very fast
[05:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> why spatial mode even exists.
[05:49] <brian__> for newbies
[05:49] <brian__> theres an article on it
[05:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> how on earth is it helpful for a newbie?
[05:49] <Markrian> BROKEN_LADDER, I hated it actually, but now I use it in conjuntion with single-click mode
[05:49] <brian__> i actually like it after a while
[05:49] <Markrian> very slick
[05:49] <brian__> yea
[05:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> very annoying.
[05:49] <brian__> can disable it if u need
[05:49] <BROKEN_LADDER> i know this.
[05:50] <Markrian> But, in fairness, there REALLY shouldn't be two distinct modes of operation for Nautilus
[05:50] <BROKEN_LADDER> i used to have to use gconf to destroy it.
[05:50] <brian__> now theres a check box for it right? in the prefs
[05:50] <Markrian> yup
[05:50] <BROKEN_LADDER> there's no problem with different modes, but the default should be something a normal person would use.
[05:50] <adoyretsamon> i'll just use kde
[05:50] <adoyretsamon> lol
[05:50] <brian__> noooo!
[05:50] <brian__> lol
[05:50] <froust> where can i find nautilus
[05:50] <mebaran> Anyone know anyother ubuntu servers
[05:51] <BROKEN_LADDER> also, the beos tracker had this same "spatial" feature, but in either mode you could hold down window key while clicking to temporarily reverse it's effect.
[05:51] <mebaran> that might carry the package I need
[05:51] <BROKEN_LADDER> very handy.
[05:51] <Markrian> froust, nautilus is the file manager
[05:51] <mebaran> I need to get one version back
[05:51] <mebaran> or just force install the panel
[05:51] <mebaran> which do you think is safer
[05:51] <BROKEN_LADDER> of course, the beos traker is far beyond what nautilus will probably ever be.
[05:51] <mebaran> force verison
[05:51] <mebaran> or force panel
[05:51] <froust> okay... where do i find it?
[05:51] <BROKEN_LADDER> it was fast and simple.
[05:51] <brian__> spatial mode is easier for newbies to understand becuase theres no file hierachy to imagine, just folders with thier own files
[05:51] <adoyretsamon> ooooh nice.. the Bared owls are back in our yard
[05:51] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: hold down shift to close windows behind in nautilus.
[05:51] <BROKEN_LADDER> brian__: i think that's an idiotic theory that can be trounced by the fact that most idiots have no problem using windows.
[05:51] <Markrian> froust, have you installed Ubuntu and are using it now?
[05:52] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: i'll just never use nautilus and spare myself the pointless waste of time.
[05:52] <froust> yeah
[05:52] <siimo> can someone tell me how to get this -> http://www3.150m.com/screenshots/main-menu.png in ubuntu ? i mean the desktop preferences displayed in the main menu of gnome
[05:52] <brian__> well thats what i extracted from an article and its just a matter of preference
[05:52] <froust> is it just the gui way of file browsing?
[05:52] <BROKEN_LADDER> mk
[05:52] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: spatial familiarity is not an idiotic theory, it is used in countless places in graphical interfaces.
[05:53] <BROKEN_LADDER> also it's disturbing that setting the date display format is more simple, logical, and powerful in windows than in gnome.
[05:53] <Markrian> froust, yes - if you're in Ubuntu, in Gnome, you're using nautilus
[05:53] <BROKEN_LADDER> i just want 2005.01.12
[05:53] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: you may disagree with the specific implementation of the file manager, but that's not a strike against spatial familiarity as an important design metric.
[05:53] <froust> k
[05:53] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: it's not familiar to ANYTHING ever used!~
[05:53] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: windows doesn't even do that.
[05:53] <BROKEN_LADDER> unless you set it to.
[05:53] <Markrian> Win95 used to
[05:53] <adoyretsamon> man, if this works I will be amazed
[05:54] <Markrian> (!)
[05:54] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: sure, windows explorer never worked this way. mac os did.
[05:54] <jdub> Markrian: no, it didn't.
[05:54] <BROKEN_LADDER> okay, but 95% of people have probably never used a "spatial" mode in anything.
[05:54] <jdub> Markrian: it just had lots of windows opening, it wasn't usefully spatial.
[05:54] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: do you drive a car?
[05:54] <BROKEN_LADDER> no.
[05:54] <BROKEN_LADDER> i live in san francisco.
[05:54] <jdub> do you ride a bike?
[05:54] <Markrian> jdub, same thing for most people
[05:54] <BROKEN_LADDER> yes.
[05:54] <BROKEN_LADDER> but i don't use spatial mode on my bike.
[05:55] <brian__> lol
[05:55] <jdub> so you are physiologially aware of spatial familiarity when riding your bike
[05:55] <BROKEN_LADDER> ??
[05:55] <jdub> you intrinsically know where the handle bars are
[05:55] <adoyretsamon> BROKEN_LADDER, yes you do
[05:55] <BROKEN_LADDER> what the hell does that have to do with a totally different meaning of the word "spatial"?
[05:55] <jdub> you could probably ride your bike with a blindfold on
[05:55] <BROKEN_LADDER> of course.
[05:55] <adoyretsamon> you are in your right brain when you do
[05:55] <Markrian> jdub, that's a pretty bad analogy if you don't mind me saying
[05:55] <BROKEN_LADDER> that's a TERRIBLE analogy.
[05:55] <brian__> spatial mode here memorizes window positions
[05:55] <jdub> it's a great analogy
[05:55] <BROKEN_LADDER> oh that's moronic.
[05:55] <jdub> your body is aware of space
[05:56] <adoyretsamon> jdub, yse
[05:56] <jdub> your muscle memory remembers where things are
[05:56] <adoyretsamon> yes
[05:56] <BROKEN_LADDER> the issue isn't the placement of the window!  it's the placement of content inside the window.
[05:56] <jdub> this is our brain and body assisting us with common tasks
[05:56] <BROKEN_LADDER> it isn't helpful to have different directories open in different places on the screen.
[05:56] <adoyretsamon> jdub, that is why I can still grab a handful of say straws and know how many I have
[05:56] <BROKEN_LADDER> for f's sake that's so terribly illogical.
[05:56] <adoyretsamon> without looking
[05:56] <Keybuk> BROKEN_LADDER: interesting, I certainly thought so
[05:56] <Keybuk> I reformatted my laptop a few weeks back
[05:57] <Markrian> jdub - you interact with the computer by viewing a 2D surface (screen), whilst manipulating a mouse on a perpendicular plane to the screen. "Space" doesn't come into it
[05:57] <Keybuk> and opened my Home folder
[05:57] <BROKEN_LADDER> and why the heck doesn't nautilus make use of the kernel hook function to be instantly updated when something inside a directory changes?
[05:57] <jdub> when we attempt to provide spatial familiarity in user interfaces, we're trying to use this feature of our brains and bodies more usefullly
[05:57] <Keybuk> and it didn't open where I expected
[05:57] <jdub> Markrian: it definitely does, dude
[05:57] <Keybuk> I was utterly shocked by just how much that made my brain skip
[05:57] <BROKEN_LADDER> instead you have to use this convoluted hack called fam.
[05:57] <jdub> Markrian: do you know what fitt's law is?
[05:57] <Keybuk> it was like coming home to discover someone had rearranged my kitchen
[05:57] <Markrian> jdub, why no
[05:57] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: that just doesn't make any sense, and doesn't have any real world foundation.
[05:57] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: nautilus uses fam or gamin, which hook into the kernel's dnotify and inotify features
[05:57] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: dude, it totally does
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> nautilus should use those features itself.
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> it shouldn't use fam.
[05:58] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: do you look at your keyboard why you type?
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> that's stupid.
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> no.
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: stop trying to make some kind of comparios.
[05:58] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: no, it needs to use fam or gamin to serialise and marshall the d/inotify information
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> the physical location of a window on the screen has NOTHING to do with how anyone perceives data within it.
[05:58] <jdub> you're right
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> you show me one broad-based study in which average people find spatial mode more appealling or intuitive or useful.
[05:58] <BROKEN_LADDER> one
[05:58] <rob0> hey ... I'm coming here from Slackware, just a simple question ... do I just dive in and edit config files like I've always done, or is there a "proper" way to do things like that?
[05:59] <jdub> but that's not why we use spatial familiarity in user interfaces
[05:59] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: that's pathetic.
[05:59] <jdub> when i open my desktop folder, my fingers know where it will be on the screen
[05:59] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: if that's how it works, then somehing is wrong with the inherent structure of the linux api.
[05:59] <Keybuk> rob0: dive in, generally.  There's UI, but they read and write config files; there's no magic things you need to know about
[05:59] <dr_willis> problem with 'studies' on GUI design - is they get used for a bit - then ignored in favor of more eye candy. :(
[05:59] <Markrian> Plus, as you descend  directories in browser mode, the window doesn't move, so you will on average have to move your cursor less to get to the file/folder you want
[05:59] <rob0> BROKEN_LADDER, that's *MISTER* Pathetic, please.
[05:59] <rob0> ;)
[05:59] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: not really, this is a common pattern
[05:59] <adoyretsamon> BROKEN_LADDER, i hate hunting down windows or dialogs
[05:59] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: see gnome-vfs-daemon, etc.
[06:00] <adoyretsamon> i want them to stay where I open them
[06:00] <brian__> "when i open my desktop folder, my fingers know where it will be on the screen" ive had that happen
[06:00] <jdub> Markrian: so fitt's law. :-)
[06:00] <adoyretsamon> and on the virtual desktop i command
[06:00] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: for instance, in beos you could put data into a virtual function in an app, the funcion might be called "filechanged()", and that code is executed when the change happens.
[06:00] <dr_willis> i tend to just use 'mc' in a shell.or some other 2 pane file manager.
[06:00] <BROKEN_LADDER> adoyretsamon: me too.
[06:00] <rob0> thx Keybuk, just wondered if I was going to break anything a la SuSE/Fedora
[06:00] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: i think you should read more about dnotify, inotify and how they work before you criticise this sensible pattern.
[06:01] <BROKEN_LADDER> no program should use a daemon for file alteration updates.  it should just be able to receive a signal when something changes in a file/directory, and then run code to update its knowledge.
[06:01] <Markrian> jdub, yes - and spatial mode generally ends up having windows for different folders everywhere on the screen, so descending folders in spatial mode ends up with much more mouse movement
[06:01] <jdub> Markrian: fitt suggested that the larger an object is, the easier it is to aim at it and hit it (with the mouse).
[06:01] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: that's how it works.
[06:01] <mebaran> Anybody new here that has had a dependency hell problem?
[06:01] <Markrian> jdub, but icons aren't larger in spatial mode!
[06:01] <BROKEN_LADDER> i know that if dnotify requires an app to interface with a daemon, it's somehow convoluted.
[06:01] <mebaran> I seem to need to know just how to force a package to install
[06:01] <mebaran> that I know the dependencies exist for
[06:01] <mebaran> but are is bugged out
[06:01] <jdub> Markrian: hold on, don't assume to know what i'm saying :)
[06:01] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: if that was how it worked, then nautilus wouldn't need a silly interface to the messages.
[06:01] <Keybuk> Markrian: if nautilus's icons got much larger, they'd eat people
[06:01] <mebaran> haha
[06:01] <Markrian> kebac_, rofl...
[06:01] <Markrian> What a comment
[06:02] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: you assume to know how the kernel works, i think you should read more about it.
[06:02] <mebaran> women and children would have to run in terror
[06:02] <BROKEN_LADDER> nautilus shouldn't be more than a 20k program, excluding codecs.
[06:02] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: surely there's a web page with the archives of the3.2 billion arguments this has already caused?
[06:02] <brian__> anyone install xorg in warty is it possible?
[06:02] <Markrian> er, Keybuk
[06:02] <BROKEN_LADDER> instead it's a bloated piece of rubbish.
[06:02] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: that's unnecessary here, thanks.
[06:02] <mebaran> Could anyone here figure away to get me out of dependency hell?
[06:02] <BROKEN_LADDER> coders need to take a look at beos, the os that did it right.
[06:02] <mebaran> Gnome-panel refuses to install
[06:02] <BROKEN_LADDER> mebaran: lol..
[06:02] <mebaran> yeah
[06:02] <Keybuk> mebaran: yeah, it does right now :-/
[06:02] <mebaran> I am SCREAMING for help
[06:03] <rob0> is there an equivalent of RH/Fedora's service(8)? Is that what debconf is?
[06:03] <Keybuk> rob0: what does service(8) do?
[06:03] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: BeOS was also extremely limited and broken in some ways
[06:03] <BROKEN_LADDER> mebaran: i'm not trying to be mean, that's just funny how you said that.
[06:03] <mebaran> BeOS was weird
[06:03] <HrdwrBoB> mebaran: what does it need
[06:03] <rob0> start and stop services
[06:03] <BROKEN_LADDER> weird?
[06:03] <jdub> mebaran: you're on hoary? this happens occasionally as dependencies get out of sync. just use upgrade (not dist-upgrade) and wait a bit for it to be fixed.
[06:03] <BROKEN_LADDER> beos was absurdly fast.
[06:03] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: the spatial thing can also be described as "this window is your folder". direct mapping of concept to visual object
[06:03] <siimo> can someone tell me how to get this -> http://www3.150m.com/screenshots/main-menu.png in ubuntu ? i mean the desktop preferences displayed in the main menu of gnome
[06:03] <Keybuk> rob0: no, on Ubuntu all installed services will start automatically
[06:03] <Keybuk> rob0: you can edit the symlinks in /etc/rc2.d if you like to change that
[06:03] <BROKEN_LADDER> MacPlusG3: but why should that window leave it's parent window behind and be in a different location?
[06:03] <brian__> he spatial thing can also be described as "this window is your folder". direct mapping of concept to visual object zactly!
[06:03] <dr_willis> BeOs did some very neat things right.. and i found some things very wrong.. but its all sort of moot in many ways. :(
[06:03] <mebaran> oh
[06:03] <mebaran> yeah
[06:03] <mebaran> but anyway
[06:03] <mebaran> I need to use this comp now
[06:04] <BROKEN_LADDER> dr_willis: it did two things wrong:  poor net stack, and not multiuser.
[06:04] <mebaran> and Gnome panel kind of is very useful
[06:04] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: because that way you know that these are two seperate folders, not one replacing the other
[06:04] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: because the window *is* the folder, and is in a consistent location, however you load it.
[06:04] <dr_willis> BROKEN_LADDER,  tjhere was other 'little' bits i hated also.
[06:04] <dr_willis> BROKEN_LADDER,  but every os/pc/tool has its issues in one way or another.
[06:04] <BROKEN_LADDER> MacPlusG3: so every single directory should open in a different place?
[06:04] <mebaran> You know dependency hell must be the third level of hell.
[06:04] <mebaran> For paltry sinners.
[06:05] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: they should open wherever you put them.
[06:05] <mebaran> just enough to cause insanity
[06:05] <rob0> rc3.d, I am not a *dm fan, but thx for the guidance Keybuk.
[06:05] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: that just makes zero sense.
[06:05] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: it should open in a logical place on the screen. there's shortcuts to close the window behind you (just as on macos)
[06:05] <Keybuk> mebaran: it's actually only about the second or third
[06:05] <Markrian> jdub, but when you regularly visit tens and tens of different folders, you won't remember where you leave them, and so no benefit is gained
[06:05] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: where logical==where they last were
[06:05] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: why not leave them in the same place and have little color codes pop up to identify each directory?
[06:05] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: if you're not willing to understand the rationale, sure, it may sound like it makes no sense.
[06:05] <Keybuk> rob0: you misunderstand, there is no difference between rc2 and rc3 on Ubuntu -- the default is rc2
[06:05] <BROKEN_LADDER> MacPlusG3: please don't use the word "folder" in linux channels.
[06:05] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: because your arms and fingers don't understand colours.
[06:05] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: ??
[06:05] <rob0> Keybuk, no, I get it. I already changed my initdefault.
[06:05] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: dude, they are all folders in gnome.
[06:05] <Keybuk> rob0: rc2/rc3/rc5 being different is a RedHat thing;  on Debian-based systems like Ubuntu they're identical
[06:06] <MacPlusG3> Markrian: you'd be surprised
[06:06] <Keybuk> rob0: the user can change them if they like
[06:06] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: they are directories.
[06:06] <rob0> ohoh ok I'll look again
[06:06] <jdub> Markrian: that's why you switch to the browse mode if you do that.
[06:06] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: they are called directories in some interfaces, yes.
[06:06] <brian__> but the idea in spatial is to percieve them as folder
[06:06] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: folder is the right term in a GUI sense. directory has no meaning to John (or Jane) Doe
[06:06] <BROKEN_LADDER> gnome uses pictures to refer to directories in the fs.
[06:06] <Markrian> So, it's assumed that new users won't be opening many different folders and so spatial is default?
[06:06] <BROKEN_LADDER> john and jane need to hang out with Bob and Alice more.
[06:06] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: gnome calls them folders, so that is what we are talking about.
[06:07] <Markrian> I guess that's reasonable
[06:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> gnome needs to stop doing that nonsense.
[06:07] <jdub> Markrian: not assumed, studied.
[06:07] <brian__> otherwise a directory would be just a taxonomy
[06:07] <MacPlusG3> BROKEN_LADDER: we're not doing crypto here
[06:07] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: it won't.
[06:07] <brian__> and would be confusing
[06:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> it's not studied.
[06:07] <Markrian> jdub, studied? Who performed this formal study
[06:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> no one in the real world uses spaial mode in windows.
[06:07] <brian__> tru dat
[06:07] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: windows does not have a spatial mode.
[06:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> Markrian: exactly.  it's just invented stats passed around tech circles.
[06:07] <Keybuk> Markrian: there actually were formal studies, so that's a pretty silly argument to start :p
[06:07] <only2lonely> The argument about spatial mode still ragfes, eh
[06:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: it's equivalent.
[06:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> its
[06:07] <jdub> Markrian: a bunch of the nautilus and gnome developers (along with some of the UI people at the various companies).
[06:08] <only2lonely> rages
[06:08] <racter> anyone know how to customize gnome's keys for stuff in the "applications" menu?  i want to change the key for "run application" (right now it's alt-f2)
[06:08] <BROKEN_LADDER> no real john and jane doe users ever tried spatial mode and perferred it.  no way.  i don't buy that for a second.
[06:08] <Keybuk> racter: Keyboard Shortcuts in Desktop Prefs.
[06:08] <MacPlusG3> jdub, Markrian : remember all the work apple put into UI stuff, especially around the development of the mac
[06:08] <Markrian> Keybuk, argument? No, I want to know who performed the studies :P Simple question
[06:08] <BROKEN_LADDER> that's like believing the civil war was about slavery.
[06:08] <BROKEN_LADDER> it's just naive
[06:08] <dr_willis> MacPlusG3,  then they toss it all out the door. :(
[06:08] <racter> that panel doesn't have an entry for what i want to change; is there a file somewhere i could edit?
[06:08] <BROKEN_LADDER> anyway, i'm going to go surf.
[06:08] <jdub> Markrian: in normal usage, users generally stick to a few folders, using shallow categorisation and existing folders provided by the system (Documents, Desktop, etc).
[06:08] <froust> okay
[06:08] <froust> to clarify - spatial mode == what exaclty/
[06:09] <mebaran> anybody here though remember how to force apt-get to get a package
[06:09] <Keybuk> racter: "Show the panel run application dialogue" (sic)
[06:09] <BROKEN_LADDER> froust: each directory opens in a window with a distinct placement and display settings, typically leaving its parent window open when you clicked to open it (spawing a new window)
[06:09] <froust> thought so
[06:09] <Markrian> jdub, fair enough. Not to make that discussion seem pointless, but be aware that I DO use spatial mode in Nautilus :)
[06:09] <BROKEN_LADDER> froust: it's uber-stupid.
[06:09] <jdub> froust: the default way nautilus works is to represent a one-to-one relationship between folders and their windows.
[06:09] <only2lonely> IMHO, it is not about spatial vs browse, but about spatial = hard to change to browse
[06:10] <jdub> froust: so they have a consistent location.
[06:10] <BROKEN_LADDER> lol
[06:10] <BROKEN_LADDER> this folder window stuff is comical.
[06:10] <Keybuk> only2lonely: yeah, that checkbox is so hard to click :p
[06:10] <MacPlusG3> only2lonely: it's easy. open the file browser
[06:10] <only2lonely> They added a checkbos, last I heard it was a setting buried in gconf
[06:10] <zenrox> BROKEN_LADDER,  i agree
[06:10] <Markrian> only2lonely's referring to pre-2.8 days I think
[06:10] <jdub> Markrian: and we did find in the study that certain types of users didn't like it at all :-)
[06:10] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: why not make nautilus keep folders where the window currently is open, but display a picture of a unique type of fish in each different folder, somewhere in the winow's border areas?
[06:10] <Keybuk> spatial is a total marmite feature
[06:10] <Markrian> jdub, we? Were you involved?
[06:10] <jdub> Markrian: but that is unrelated to why it was done (which BROKEN_LADDER seems to have a problem with)
[06:11] <jdub> Markrian: i'm the gnome release manager
[06:11] <mebaran> jdub: could you help me then
[06:11] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: because your arms and fingers don't understand fish.
[06:11] <Keybuk> heh, jdub runs the GNOME project
[06:11] <Keybuk> even though he won't admit it
[06:11] <mebaran> with a dependency issue
[06:11] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: oh sorry dude.  i have immense respect for the work you do, i hope you understand.
[06:11] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: no, i don't. your behaviour is uncalled for.
[06:11] <BROKEN_LADDER> gnome is uber awesome.
[06:11] <mebaran> I would be much obliged
[06:11] <Keybuk> mebaran: gnome-panel is broken right now, I doubt it'll be fixed before tomorrow morning french time when seb wakes up :-/
[06:11] <Markrian> jdub, well, that is something.
[06:12] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: i'm just expressing what i see to be an incredibly bizarre interface choice.
[06:12] <rob0> ok, so I "sudo rm /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm" and no more graphical login
[06:12] <Keybuk> rob0: yup
[06:12] <mebaran> dmanable
[06:12] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: in a rude and closed-minded way. yes, i understand.
[06:12] <Markrian> lol@BROKEN_LADDER
[06:12] <brian__> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7548 why spatial is benefitial for newbies
[06:12] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: on the whole, i love gnome and i understand it's got to be a huge undertaking to run such a project.
[06:12] <mebaran> I was supposed to be productive tonight
[06:12] <regeya> amazingly, not everyone works in the same way.
[06:12] <Keybuk> mebaran: it should still work despite the upgrade?
[06:12] <jdub> brian__: note that it's not supposed to be beneficial only for newbies. :-)
[06:13] <BROKEN_LADDER> it's not rude or closed-minded.  i've analyzed the explanations given, and come to my belief.  thus not closed-minded.  and it's not rude, it's just frank.
[06:13] <BROKEN_LADDER> honesty can sound rude i know.
[06:13] <jdub> brian__: muscle memory primarily helps regular users. :-)
[06:13] <regeya> brian__: the change would have been understandable in, say, a 3.0 release, but not in the middle of the 2.x series. :-/
[06:13] <mebaran> what is spatial mode
[06:13] <only2lonely> BROKEN_LADDER: you're as closed minded as the people that like it, IMHO
[06:13] <mebaran> just otu of curiousity
[06:13] <only2lonely> both sides have dug in on this one
[06:13] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: you have refused to listen, you have criticised it without understanding it, etc. that is rude and doesn't help you;
[06:13] <regeya> perhaps it would have helped had the GNOME team just waved their hands, jumped straight to the next major version number, and left it at that. ;-)
[06:14] <brian__> yup
[06:14] <BROKEN_LADDER> only2lonely: it is a fact that i have not been closed minded.
[06:14] <Keybuk> regeya: the version numbers reflect API compatibility, rather than user expectation; as I understand it
[06:14] <brian__> why dont they go 3.0? i think theyre at 2.19 now
[06:14] <brian__> 2.10**
[06:14] <Keybuk> 2.x guarantees that old apps will still work
[06:14] <BROKEN_LADDER> only2lonely: in order to be closed minded, i would have had to not consider and weigh out the opposing arguments.
[06:14] <brian__> ic
[06:14] <Keybuk> user-facing changes happen at every x.y release, so for users each 2.x is a new major release
[06:14] <BROKEN_LADDER> however i indeed did weigh out the "arguments".
[06:15] <mebaran> Keybuk: gnome wont install period
[06:15] <mebaran> I am running in bas
[06:15] <mebaran> h
[06:15] <mebaran> never appreciated
[06:15] <only2lonely> I didn't say you were, only that from a 3rd party perspective, the people that are defending it are as closed minded as the people criticizing it
[06:15] <regeya> my feelings are that the KDE project isn't going anywhere, GNUstep is getting somewhere, but slowly, and interesting things are happening in GNOMEspace.  I keep trying to get motivated to help bring some non-dummy alternative apps, but alas, everytime I think I have time, life smacks me upside the head. :-(
[06:15] <Keybuk> mebaran: it should be installed from before the upgrade?
[06:15] <nomasteryoda> mebaran, mine neither
[06:15] <mebaran> bash as much when a great project like gnome is dead
[06:15] <brian__> to advance to 3.0 would they have to have a gtk 3.0? yes this is a stupid q
[06:15] <BROKEN_LADDER> only2lonely: gotcha
[06:15] <mebaran> it was
[06:15] <jdub> Keybuk: though we try to keep the user interface similar on the whole, which may change in 3.x :)
[06:15] <Keybuk> jdub: did you read (silly question) the lead article in GNOME Journal?
[06:15] <Markrian> regeya, actually KDE 4 will rock, I should think
[06:15] <mebaran> but it uninstalled to make room for a new one
[06:15] <mebaran> I dont know
[06:15] <mebaran> it was here at one time gone the next
[06:16] <jdub> only2lonely: not everyone in gnome likes it, but they generally agree it's the right choice.
[06:16] <Keybuk> mebaran: ah, seb's been at his conflicts again *sigh*
[06:16] <only2lonely> kind of like how people that are so into tolerance of others are so intolerant of people that disagree
[06:16] <nomasteryoda> mebaran, you have the debian sources
[06:16] <Keybuk> I told him I'd beat him with a marrow if I caught him doing that :p
[06:16] <regeya> Markrian: I hope so! :-)  Competition is good.  If it's great, I may switch back.
[06:16] <nomasteryoda> listed?
[06:16] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah, sums up a lot of the feelings among the core hackes.
[06:16] <nomasteryoda> that is what killed mine
[06:16] <only2lonely> jdub: IMHO, your wasting your time trying to convince people that don't like it, to like it.
[06:17] <jdub> only2lonely: i don't :-)
[06:17] <brian__> whoa i just realised i came on here to fix my wacom tablet a while ago..
[06:17] <mebaran> haha
[06:17] <jdub> only2lonely: but those who are ill-informed about why it exists, i attempt to teach. :-)
[06:17] <mebaran> I remember that
[06:17] <Markrian> I'll be interested to see how KDE4/Qt4 and GNOME3/GTK3 compare...
[06:17] <jdub> only2lonely: i don't like jazz much myself, but i enjoy listening to jazz fans explain why it is important.
[06:17] <regeya> nowadays, the two major sides go something like this for me:  KDE on one side, with all the bells and whistles in horrible interfaces, and GNOME, sort of the blonde bimbo of desktops...looks nice, is competent in its own way, but not much under the hood.  I hope both sides change.  I see nice progress on improvement on both sides.
[06:17] <BROKEN_LADDER> for system wide applications menu changes in nautilus, do i go to "applications" as root, or "applications-all-users"?
[06:18] <mebaran> I appreciate gnome now
[06:18] <mebaran> as Debian's KDE is a tad thick and overloaded
[06:18] <MacPlusG3> regeya: you forgot to mention that GNOME is also a firecracker in the sack.... i mean desktop... *blush*
[06:18] <jdub> regeya: not much under the hood?
[06:18] <only2lonely> regeya: that's what males linux nice, the people that loike the GNOME way use GNOME, the people that like the KDE way use KDE
[06:18] <BROKEN_LADDER> and how do i edit the "computer" menu?
[06:18] <regeya> hahaha
[06:18] <brian__> yea dta^^
[06:18] <brian__> i was just typing it
[06:18] <brian__> dat** ><
[06:18] <only2lonely> I don't understand why all the debate over which is better
[06:18] <mebaran> they both get the job done
[06:18] <only2lonely> they both exist, they are differnt and each fills a need
[06:19] <MacPlusG3> except GNOME still works after a unclean reboot
[06:19] <dr_willis> for me - i perfer kde.. i'd set up a total new user with gnome most likely.
[06:19] <brian__> its really wierd when u look at kde-look and gnome-look/art.gnome, the styles are so different
[06:19] <jdub> only2lonely: you could say the same for mac vs. pc in the 80s :-)
[06:19] <BROKEN_LADDER> if fluxbox had gnome-session support, i'd be in fluxbox running gnome-panel.
[06:19] <notdenizen> does anyone know why doom3 would be giving an error along the lines of "video card / driver combination does not support the necessary features" and the exiting? tuxracer and screensavers are definately accelerated ...
[06:19] <mebaran> The GNOME is a tad more athletic
[06:19] <BROKEN_LADDER> oh, it's workspaces also aren't compatible.
[06:19] <BROKEN_LADDER> gnome is sooo much better than kde.
[06:19] <rob0> XFCE 4.2 is looking nice, FWIW
[06:19] <regeya> jdub: loads of code, but uh, hey, why must features be thrown out because they could be confusing to Joe Sixpack?  I can't wait until a few people wise up and understand that yeah, a cleaned-up interface is a great idea, but that Joe Sixpack isn't using a Free Desktop.
[06:20] <jdub> regeya: which features?
[06:20] <mebaran> yes I would like to know whcih
[06:20] <regeya> oh cripes, jdub, I don't want to argue...
[06:20] <only2lonely> jdub: you could, and if MS wasn't so ruthless, we might still be saying that.
[06:20] <jdub> regeya: i genuinely interested
[06:20] <regeya> jdub: I'm sure you've seen all the arguments.
[06:20] <jdub> regeya: because, by and large, i don't think we've thrown out important *features*
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: do you know how well/not well spatial works for people who heavily nest data
[06:21] <regeya> jdub:  No, because I'm sure I'll mention some app and you'll just shout 'BUT THAT'S NOT A GNOME APP' or show me to be ignorant of some obscure gconf key, or some such.  it's not worth it.
[06:21] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: how does one edit the applications menu for the whole system.  can i just manually edit some file?
[06:21] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: not good for people really heavily nest data; it depends on the depth
[06:21] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[06:21] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: hoary or warty?
[06:21] <BROKEN_LADDER> warty
[06:21] <BROKEN_LADDER> it's going to change?
[06:21] <regeya> jdub: it's the 'important' bit that I question
[06:21] <Keybuk> HrdwrBoB: I used to do that, but I found that I've basically restricted myself to two-levels now automatically
[06:21] <HrdwrBoB> I tend to have 3-4 levels of depth
[06:21] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: applications-all-users:// or something
[06:21] <BROKEN_LADDER> that's what i thought..
[06:21] <regeya> who decides what's important?  I for one found the Summary in Evolution to be 'important'
[06:21] <Keybuk> HrdwrBoB: it wasn't a deliberate change, I've just subconciously started just doing it
[06:21] <jdub> regeya: nup, i won't :)
[06:21] <regeya> apparently my opinion was wrong.
[06:21] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: but i can't just edit the file manually?
[06:21] <HrdwrBoB> having 'movies' is too broad, so movies has series, movies, car, crap
[06:21] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: it's not one file
[06:22] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: i understand that.
[06:22] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: 2.8 had a really horrible vfolder system, google for stuff about that
[06:22] <BROKEN_LADDER> oh..i thought that's how it still worked.
[06:22] <HrdwrBoB> Keybuk: interesting
[06:22] <jdub> 2.10 has a relatively more sensible system (freedesktop standardised, etc)
[06:22] <HrdwrBoB> Keybuk: I might use nautilus more
[06:22] <regeya> also, are GNOME users REALLY confused at the prospect of setting a bitrate for encoding Vorbis files?  It scares me that people could be running a Unix-like system and be confused by a Quality setting.
[06:22] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: that i can edit in text mode?
[06:22] <Keybuk> The killer GNOME feature I miss is a decent IDE
[06:22] <HrdwrBoB> my main whinge is tht the default zoom is too large
[06:22] <MacPlusG3> Keybuk: Anjuta
[06:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> gawd beos had a sweet ide.
[06:23] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: you can edit every file on your hard drive with vi if you want to
[06:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: if only i knew which one to edit.
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> I change my default zoom to 75%
[06:23] <froust> how can i add things to the gnome application menu?
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> 100% is huge
[06:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> 50% here
[06:23] <Keybuk> MacPlusG3: I tried it ... it didn't sit; and lacked major features for me like "add changelog entry" and stuff
[06:23] <only2lonely> jdub: how about emacs ;)
[06:23] <jdub> regeya: evo summary is an interesting one - the evo hackers felt it would be better off in another application
[06:23] <BROKEN_LADDER> jdub: do i edit those .desktop files?
[06:23] <MacPlusG3> Keybuk: yeah.... and there wasn't quite the emacs keybindings for me....
[06:24] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: depends what you want to change. you can ask the channel and not just me...
[06:24] <regeya> If people really go "Oh Sh*t NOW WHAT???!?" when presented with a Quality setting of 0 to 9, they need to move to a remote location and renounce technology, not look to GNOME devs to make the decision for them.
[06:24] <regeya> jdub:  that's nice; why throw it out of Evo before the alternative was ready?
[06:24] <jdub> regeya: this is the quality setting in s-j?
[06:24] <Keybuk> the emacs bindings I'm happy to lose :p  I hate having "Home M-<" as "go to top"
[06:24] <Keybuk> (because I always push Home, realise it doesn't work, then push M-<)
[06:24] <MacPlusG3> Personally, i'd love to see Window List and Virtual Desktops disappear and be replaced with something good. (i don't actually have the answer to that... i'd just like to see it)
[06:24] <jdub> regeya: because the developers weren't prepared to fix/work on it when big changes were made to evo.
[06:25] <mebaran> and to think I always found away around all these deficiencies
[06:25] <MacPlusG3> Keybuk: i use emacs most of the day editing source, i'm not about to learn new keyboard shortcuts. plus, the emacs ones don't make my hands move far.
[06:25] <Keybuk> MacPlusG3: yeah, I basically want an emacs killer.  I hate not being able to open multiple windows, and not being able to just type unicode characters into it
[06:25] <regeya> also, why am I unable to make ANY choices about printing images from gThumb other than what images to print and what printer?  Adding a Print option without sensible defaults (72dpi is not sensible for printing photos) was, well, not the best of ideas.
[06:25] <MacPlusG3> regeya: check out gdesklets - may fufill a lot of what you want
[06:25] <jdub> regeya: the quality bit in s-j was not finished. now there's a proposed audio profiles idea, which does not explicitly expose the underlying quality setting, but generalises it into (editable) profiles.
[06:25] <BROKEN_LADDER> u iu i tie povas legi i tiujn vortojn?
[06:25] <Keybuk> though, admittedly, Norman Walsh's xml input method has fixed the latter a little
[06:25] <jdub> regeya: sounds like a bug in gthumb.
[06:26] <MacPlusG3> Keybuk: you can have multiple windows, and multiple views of files. there's the Mule stuff for multilingual - but never used it
[06:26] <Keybuk> MacPlusG3: can't if your emacs lives in a gnome-terminal
[06:26] <jdub> regeya: the trick to all of this is understanding which things are bugs and which things are design choices.
[06:26] <Keybuk> the X11 interface to emacs is just too hideous for words
[06:26] <MacPlusG3> Keybuk: i use it in X11 :)
[06:26] <regeya> but, jdub, I'm a user!  How could I know that the lack of dpi settings in a Print dialog is a *bug*?
[06:26] <notdenizen> has anyone here got doom3 running on an amd64 using an Nvidia card ?
[06:27] <regeya> am I, the user, supposed to dig through bug reports?
[06:27] <jdub> regeya: because it was obviously incorrect, and you have a bug reporting tool in your menus. :-)
[06:27] <jdub> regeya: "does not do the right thing" -> that's abug
[06:27] <only2lonely> so spatial=bug then ;)
[06:27] <regeya> jdub: I suppose a lot of people reported bugs on Nautilus, then. :->
[06:27] <Keybuk> regeya: in both directions, spatial won :p
[06:28] <mebaran> I would like to know why totem continually crashes
[06:28] <mebaran> just randomly
[06:28] <jdub> regeya: nautilus has the largest number of unclosed bugs, but that makes sense, because it's something that is in your face every day.
[06:28] <mebaran> but I am not picky
[06:28] <regeya> yes, a decision was made that it was better for idiots so a major change was made to the desktop.  nicely done.  I actually like spatial but question the wisdom of changing it in the middle of the 2.x series, that's all.
[06:28] <Keybuk> jdub: and they haven't been smoking the same crack as the gstreamer and metacity teams :p
[06:29] <jdub> regeya: it was not chosen because it was "better for idiots". i said earlier in this channel that it's actually better for regular users.
[06:29] <jdub> regeya: (regular users can be experts or newbies, remember)
[06:29] <regeya> I'm a regular user, I should think, and my intelligence is insulted by some of the changes made.  *shrug*  Whatever.
[06:29] <jdub> Keybuk: mmm, i see pros and cons in the whole bug competition thing
[06:29] <MacPlusG3> i actually started using nautilus when it went spatial - it was usable then
[06:29] <jdub> regeya: such as?
[06:30] <regeya> jdub...
[06:30] <jdub> MacPlusG3: yeah, i started regularly using it then too
[06:30] <jdub> it used to just sit on my desktop and swap out after a while
[06:30] <regeya> jdub, some of my gripes are the same gripes you'll see elsewhere.  as I said I like GNOME and there's no point to rehash the same goddamn flamefest.  let it rest.
[06:30] <Keybuk> spatial was what made me stop removing nautilus from my session :p
[06:31] <MacPlusG3> jdub: same. i actually have icons for folders on the desktop and everything.
[06:31] <jdub> regeya: see, i have emotional investment in a project that intends to be maximally usable for a huge proportion of people, right? then you say "insult my intelligence" - dude, i need to know why so i can fix it or explain it.
[06:31] <MacPlusG3> jdub: and i use the desktop now in exactly the same way I did in the macos days. like i do my real desk... a place for mess.
[06:32] <regeya> jdub:  I guess it's not so much a question of things that were changed as it was the process...I don't think I'm the only person left wondering what 'regular users' were polled when interface, feature, etc. decisions were made.
[06:32] <jdub> regeya: if you talk to a developer, they're curious. if you flame a developer, they'll defensively flame back. one of these methods is productive. :-)
[06:32] <regeya> heh
[06:32] <jdub> regeya: ok, that's one i'll have to explain :-)
[06:33] <only2lonely> jdub: it is really a difference in philisophical opion about using a computer, IMO
[06:33] <jdub> regeya: the thing is, only a teeny-weeny fraction of users participate in the project.
[06:33] <only2lonely> interface dictates use vs use dictates interface
[06:33] <jdub> regeya: and when i say teeny-weeny, i'm talking nano level.
[06:34] <jdub> regeya: and that group of people are very different from the potential user base out there in the real world
[06:34] <only2lonely> 1/2 of people want to be told what to do, the other half want to decide for themselves what they do
[06:34] <jdub> regeya: anyone who is on irc is in a very tiny proportion of relatively technology comfortable people
[06:34] <regeya> only2lonely:  heh, c'mon, let jdub finish. :-D
[06:35] <jdub> only2lonely: disagree, but i'll come back to that.
[06:35] <Markrian> jdub, just to nitpick, I don't think a billion people use GNOME - though that is an aim, I'm sure ;o
[06:35] <jdub> regeya: so when you see a slashdot poll, or a discussion in irc or on a web forum, who are they? not regular people.
[06:35] <jdub> Markrian: i'm talking potential userbase. not current userbase.
[06:35] <jdub> Markrian: why design for 0.000001% of the population?
[06:35] <Markrian> Oh I see
[06:35] <only2lonely> jdub: that's the rub for a lot of people though, you deciding what is good for everyone, instead of letting them decide for themselves
[06:36] <regeya> ooh ooh ooh this reminds me that I need to find out how nautilus informs rhythmbox when you tell it to "add to my music collection"...list of things todo
[06:36] <jdub> this is a fundamental shift in thinking from gnome 1.x to 2.x
[06:36] <only2lonely> it's liek the difference between the democrats and the republicans in the US
[06:36] <jdub> ignoring the political issue
[06:36] <smo> on a different scale .. "vocal minority" is a lot more minor in this case
[06:37] <jdub> let's analogise -> how many "options" does your kettle have?
[06:37] <jdub> mine has none
[06:37] <regeya> only2lonely, I'm with you, but I have to think that adding the oldsk00l nautilus experience level to all apps would be, um, time-consuming, if not difficult.
[06:37] <jdub> like, quite literally, none
[06:37] <only2lonely> The political thing is just an analogy to illustrate two fundamental differences in the way one looks at the workd
[06:37] <only2lonely> worls
[06:37] <regeya> not that I'd mind having that rather than editing gconf keys, but I think it'd be difficult. :-)
[06:37] <jdub> how about my iron
[06:37] <regeya> but I'm lazy.
[06:37] <jdub> my iron has a single round switcher that chooses heat
[06:38] <jdub> that's a pretty important functional choice
[06:38] <jdub> that stops me burning my silk ties
[06:38] <froust> can any user use the sudo command?
[06:38] <dataw0lf> froust: it must be specified in /etc/sudoers
[06:38] <jdub> now, i want my computer to be like that
[06:38] <jdub> it should just work
[06:38] <jdub> do the right thing
[06:38] <jdub> for the greatest common factor of users
[06:38] <only2lonely> sinngle purpose appliances are bad analogies to multiple purpose software programs
[06:38] <jdub> without micro-management
[06:38] <Markrian> jdub, out of interest, how heavily influenced is GNOME by Mac OS
[06:39] <froust> data - thank you
[06:39] <jdub> Markrian: a fair bit, but we look at everything for ideas
[06:39] <regeya> OTOH there's the car analogy.  In the Model-T days, few people had their cars, but it was field-servicible.  Now?  I take my car to a waaaay-overpriced service to get my car fixed, in exchange for the convenience of a car where I put the car in Drive, press the accelerator, and it goes VROOOOM down the road.
[06:39] <jdub> recent mac os is very interesting
[06:39] <Markrian> It's fantastic
[06:40] <jdub> from the perspective of getting the just-works interface right, the gui-on-unix bits right, etc.
[06:40] <MacPlusG3> and GNOME does do a number of things a lot better than modern MacOS
[06:40] <regeya> but then again, I suppose if people such as myself and others here are mad as hell about GNOME I suppose we could do what the GNOME devs did over the KDE licensing issue.  but I haven't seen a dominant third wheel...erm, desktop project.
[06:40] <jdub> they're also not afraid to do different things
[06:40] <smo> regeya: compare how many people enjoy spending their weekends under their car, with those who really want to get from A to B ?
[06:40] <brian__> will somone guide me in installing kernel 2.6.10 from hoary with pinning
[06:40] <jdub> have a look at Pages some time, *that's* smart stuff
[06:40] <Markrian> OSX 10.4... there's just no equal
[06:40] <jdub> regeya: why are you "mad as hell"?
[06:40] <HrdwrBoB> hmm
[06:41] <MacPlusG3> jdub: and Keynote. that is a killer app
[06:41] <regeya> smo:  I'd argue that there are great similarities between home *n?x users and people who tear their cars apart on the weekends. :-)
[06:41] <MacPlusG3> Markrian: on some levels... on others... we're still way ahead
[06:41] <jdub> MacPlusG3: keynote is not a huge leap from other presentation tools
[06:41] <jdub> regeya: then you're designing for a tiny proportion of the world
[06:41] <jdub> regeya: "unix users"
[06:41] <regeya> jdub:  I'm not, but some people sure as heck seem to be for some reason.  me, I think it's just a desktop and if I were really that annoyed about it I'd help revamp KDE apps.  but I don't care.
[06:41] <jdub> i am not a unix user
[06:42] <regeya> jdub:  I'm not using unix right now, but I'm using gnome.
[06:42] <HrdwrBoB> I've been having a think about spatial, and it's a damn good idea, I mean, i can't handle haning IRC being anywhere except bottom right hand corner
[06:42] <jdub> i am an ubuntu user, a gnome user, etc.
[06:42] <smo> regeya: exactly.  what's getting funky is thinking beyond home/hobbyist users
[06:42] <MacPlusG3> jdub: i found that going from PPT/OOImpress to it was like reaching Nirvana - i was no longer fighting to get slides done.
[06:42] <HrdwrBoB> *having
[06:42] <Markrian> MacPlusG3, 'we', referring to the Mac?
[06:42] <regeya> *n?x...does that match linux?  does that match unix users?
[06:42] <MacPlusG3> Markrian: we referring to linux
[06:42] <regeya> smo: yeah...it's sort of interesting to see that.
[06:42] <Markrian> Really... some examples?
[06:42] <jdub> MacPlusG3: yeah, it's a better mousetrap, not a new way of looking at things. :)
[06:43] <goofykinky> hi
[06:44] <poof> Any one know what package I need for reading NTFS?
[06:44] <goofykinky> can u help solve various problems of my ubuntu?
[06:44] <poof> Hi goofy :)
[06:44] <Markrian> poof, none
[06:44] <regeya> jdub:  anyway, after saying all that, I do have to point out that I'm quite impressed with modern GNOME and that if there's anything I can't do with the current GUI it's more than likely doable with a tiny shell script (just as I would do in OS X, so nyeah), so I'm happy.  Sorry for being a bit trollish there, and hope to see a marvelous 2.10.
[06:44] <Markrian> kernel has modules to do it by default
[06:44] <poof> cool, is it already installed?
[06:44] <jdub> regeya: i think i can say what you're trying to express fairly succinctly
[06:44] <poof> nice thanks Mark :)
[06:44] <regeya> shoot, jdub
[06:44] <Markrian> np poof
[06:44] <jdub> regeya: gnome is no longer as interesting to tinkerers and ricers as it once was.
[06:45] <regeya> lol
[06:45] <regeya> I suppose that's correct! :-)
[06:45] <goofykinky> why when i start loading ubuntu on my sistem it hangs on the "Starting Hotplug Subsystem" feature?
[06:45] <poof> I am useing XFce, it like unbuntu, and runs verry fast 8)
[06:45] <goofykinky> and how do i do that?
[06:45] <mebaran> most of the new people that have introduced the GNOME comment how much cleaner it is than Windows
[06:45] <regeya> jdub: one question, though, and THIS one is serious:  as I'm ignorant of the dev side of things gnome-related, is there in place or are there plans for convenience libs for HIG compliance?
[06:46] <only2lonely> Okay, I really enjoyed watching that train wreck , but I have to go to bed
[06:46] <poof> XFce is cleaner than gnome too :)
[06:46] <froust> can anyone tell me the syntax for installing grub? (grub-install /????)
[06:46] <mebaran> grub-install /dev/(your hardisk name here)
[06:46] <regeya> jdub: that's one thing that has scared me away, the notion of having to audit the look and feel of an app rather than having the code do the Right Thing(TM) for me because I am, as I said before, lazy. :-}
[06:46] <mebaran> proof: but I found XFCE too be a tad minimalist
[06:46] <Markrian> poof, xfce4.2 is a beatiful piece of software
[06:46] <poof> is it possible to use a custom GRB background? I am professional artist and I want to make some cool ones for Ubuntu
[06:47] <mebaran> kind of like loking at new modernt art
[06:47] <jdub> regeya: HIG-compliance is more about design than using the right libs. there are some gtk+ widgets that are useful for doing the right stuff, but it's not really a technical issue.
[06:47] <poof> I cant get 4.2 working, hoary dont like me
[06:47] <froust> mebaran: which partition?
[06:47] <Markrian> poof, look at /boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz
[06:47] <MacPlusG3> poof: yes - have a look at the man page for the config file. should tell you how to specify the image
[06:47] <jdub> regeya: "the code" can't make a usable interface for you.
[06:47] <froust> i'm dual booting
[06:47] <regeya> jdub: I disagree, but that's okay.
[06:47] <froust> if that matters
[06:47] <jdub> regeya: you disagree with...?
[06:48] <jdub> there are widgets that facilitate HIG-style designs
[06:48] <regeya> jdub:  I believe it's possible to have code that's (been a long time since I looked at the hig, sorry) able to abstract the process of, say, putting x number of pixels between buttons y and z
[06:48] <regeya> but as I say, I'm ignorant of such things so maybe I shouldn't worry
[06:48] <jdub> that's not library magic dust
[06:48] <regeya> say I shouldn't worry
[06:48] <jdub> that's gui designer magic dust
[06:48] <regeya> *groan*
[06:49] <jdub> glade3 should be much better in that regard
[06:49] <jdub> it's somewhat challenging to get things right in glade atm
[06:49] <mebaran> I wonder if anyone knows of any good music notation programs
[06:49] <regeya> you're telling me that I should memorize the hig and properly design by hand if I want to write a real gnome app?  nevermind, then.
[06:49] <jdub> mebaran: i think rosegarden is regarded as the best FOSS app
[06:49] <mebaran> yeah
[06:49] <mebaran> but rosegarden was pretty poor
[06:49] <mebaran> I was using Finale
[06:49] <mebaran> which is horrible
[06:49] <mebaran> ugly
[06:50] <regeya> I have enough trouble memorizing layout rules for newspaper layouts :->
[06:50] <jdub> regeya: well, on one hand yes, on one hand no.
[06:50] <mebaran> and produces pooor output
[06:50] <mebaran> but it works
[06:50] <mebaran> Rosegarden
[06:50] <jdub> regeya: your gui designer should assist you with the basics, such as padding
[06:50] <mebaran> never seemed too
[06:50] <jdub> regeya: but your gui designer can't help you out with semantic issues, etc.
[06:50] <regeya> and by 'semantic issues'...please elaborate
[06:50] <Markrian> mebaran, you mean sequencers, or apps which allow you to create musical notation with staves etc?
[06:50] <mebaran> welll that is nice
[06:51] <jdub> regeya: if you want to design apps properly for os x, you still need to read and understand their guidelines
[06:51] <brian__> oh yay rythym box is upgradeable
[06:51] <jdub> regeya: which widgets to use for certain tasks, layout conventions, etc.
[06:51] <regeya> well, true
[06:51] <jdub> so quite literally, you do design by hand
[06:52] <jdub> that is how design is done
[06:52] <regeya> things like where to put the Preferences... menu item I can understand.
[06:52] <regeya> jdub: as a graphic designer, I appreciate your explaining that designers design :-> but...hang on, let me find something and let's see if you can tell me if this is an issue I need to know off the top of my head...
[06:53] <mebaran> jdub: the biggest issue that new converts to GNOME had (from Windows) was poor fonts
[06:53] <mebaran> that the didnt look clean
[06:53] <mebaran> I dont know how that effects anything
[06:54] <mebaran> but it always seemed like the biggest complaint
[06:54] <mebaran> that and the fact you dont have a C: drive
[06:54] <mebaran> but the C: drive is a plus
[06:54] <HrdwrBoB> c: drive is a broken concept
[06:54] <HrdwrBoB> always was, always will be
[06:54] <mebaran> I mean not having a C: drive is a plus
[06:54] <mebaran> yeah
[06:54] <mebaran> it is
[06:54] <mebaran> but old habits die hard
[06:54] <poof> LOL i am lookiing to buy a laptop, and some dude is advertiseing that he will install Fedora or Debian for 50$ extra.... OMG i can see 50$ for installing Gento , but 50$ for installing Debian? If I buy from this guy I will just tell him to make 4 partitions and just install windows LOL!!
[06:54] <regeya> fonts really aren't a GNOME issue, but eh
[06:54] <HrdwrBoB> poof: time is not free
[06:54] <mebaran> yeah
[06:55] <mebaran> they arent
[06:55] <HrdwrBoB> poof: I wouldn't do it for <$50
[06:55] <poof> I would gove maby 10$ extea but not 50
[06:55] <mebaran> neither woudl I
[06:55] <Markrian> HrdwrBoB, why is C: etc a broken concept?
[06:55] <mebaran> maybe for a friend
[06:55] <jdub> mebaran: largely dealt with now (with vera, and improved freetype)
[06:55] <mebaran> yeah
[06:55] <MacPlusG3> Markrian: have more than 26 drives
[06:55] <mebaran> I have been a tad of an evangelist
[06:55] <brian__> mscorefonts are easily available
[06:55] <MacPlusG3> Markrian: or have more than 1 - how on earth do you tell them apart?
[06:55] <HrdwrBoB> Markrian: it's a very silly way of (not) abstracting the hardware
[06:55] <BROKEN_LADDER> how can i prevent apt-get dist-upgrade from downgrading from newer packages i've personally installed?
[06:56] <mebaran> Other than that the other problem was gaming.
[06:56] <mebaran> But I know gaming is all about market.
[06:56] <BROKEN_LADDER> and how can i install newer packages, like nautilus 2.9?
[06:56] <HrdwrBoB> mebaran: as I see, it, the current major problem is legal multimedia support
[06:56] <mebaran> Most of the people found the spatial mode nice
[06:56] <mebaran> and inuitive
[06:56] <brian__> anyone know if it's safe to upgrade kernel in synaptic?
[06:56] <chibifs> It is.
[06:56] <brian__> and whats the diff from full kern to image?
[06:57] <mebaran> no one who I gave the LivCD's too complained about multimedia
[06:57] <Markrian> HrdwrBoB, ah yes... excuse me, it's very very late and I must concentrate on my angiosperms...
[06:57] <mebaran> a good CD AUdio burning app woudl be REALLY REALLY nice
[06:57] <mebaran> written in GTK
[06:57] <poof> kb3
[06:57] <jdub> BROKEN_LADDER: gnome 2.9 is in hoary
[06:57] <brian__> GRAVEMAN for cd burning
[06:57] <Markrian> mebaran, Gnome Baker is coming along
[06:57] <mebaran> like kb3
[06:57] <mebaran> haha
[06:57] <mebaran> when it comes I will be happy
[06:57] <mebaran> CLI is fun and all...
[06:57] <mebaran> but after a while
[06:57] <OddAbe19> gnomebaker, is really nice
[06:57] <chibifs> Mebaran, have you tried using nautilus for CD's? It works rather nice aside from the lack of debug information.
[06:57] <OddAbe19> he's doing good work with that
[06:57] <goofykinky> can anyone helpme or not?
[06:58] <Jikkle> my ubuntu came without kde
[06:58] <brian__> how bout Coaster?
[06:58] <HrdwrBoB> Jikkle: that's a feature, not a bug
[06:58] <Markrian> jdub, will nautilus-cd-burner 2.10 be able to create audio CDs?
[06:58] <mebaran> Natuilus does good for data
[06:58] <mebaran> but for audio it pans short
[06:58] <jdub> Markrian: not n-c-b itself, no
[06:58] <chibifs> Ewwww. What is the purpose of Audio CDs? :o
[06:59] <mebaran> haha
[06:59] <regeya> jdub:  "The border around all edges of the alert, and the space between the icon and the text, is 12 pixels." <- will Glade not handle this, and how is this not an issue that could be abstracted?  Why use pixels at all instead of, say, ems (I'm not a GUI designer, I think in terms of print :-P) or percentages or some other abstracted metric, and how is button position not something that can be abstracted?  that reeks of excuse
[06:59] <regeya> , though you'll probably be offended by my saying so...please don't suggest that I write it, because you don't want to wish that on the world ;-)
[06:59] <setite> hey
[06:59] <setite> totem sucks
[06:59] <setite> i want the newer one
[06:59] <regeya> o_O
[06:59] <setite> but im getting hella problems
[06:59] <HrdwrBoB> chibifs: a lot of people make them for going in cars and for giving to people who only have CD players
[06:59] <tolle> brian__: Coaster doesnt do audiocds..
[06:59] <jdub> regeya: splitting your question up
[06:59] <setite> is there a repo that has totem .100?
[06:59] <regeya> setite: try 'xine'
[06:59] <Jikkle> i can't get shorewall to work
[06:59] <regeya> sorry jdub
[06:59] <setite> tried xine
[06:59] <setite> quality is not good
[06:59] <chibifs> :/ They should get Mp3 CD players, they aren't that expensive.
[06:59] <setite> i read that totem is btter
[06:59] <regeya> define 'not good'
[06:59] <setite> but i cant get it to play dvds
[06:59] <Markrian> goofykinky, what's the problem
[07:00] <poof> I thing totem is built on to p  of XINE
[07:00] <setite> its blurry it should be better
[07:00] <HrdwrBoB> chibifs: some people are too technically inept to handle it
[07:00] <jdub> regeya: we're using pixels because that's what gtk+ can handle for the moment (it will be able to use other units in a later release, possibly even 2.8)
[07:00] <regeya> setite: that depends.  there's a gstreamer backend, and a xine backend
[07:00] <chibifs> Hehe.
[07:00] <mebaran> I still like Audio CDs for my nicer stereo
[07:00] <HrdwrBoB> chibifs: others simply cannot afford it
[07:00] <jdub> regeya: (although i doubt it for 2.8)
[07:00] <regeya> jdub:  sweet!
[07:00] <chibifs> I got one for 30 bucks :D
[07:00] <jdub> regeya: glade3 should handle simple dialogue layout
[07:00] <brian__> is gnome baker in repos yet?
[07:00] <Jikkle> does it write DVD's?
[07:00] <HrdwrBoB> mebaran: nice enough, though they don't have to be in audio CD format, you can still have the same clarity (or more)
[07:00] <jdub> regeya: it's not something that should or could sanely be abstracted by "another library"
[07:00] <regeya> setite:  you can find an explanation of how to play DVDs on the wiki, I believe.
[07:01] <setite> i figured its because of poor quality decryption
[07:01] <jdub> regeya: dialogue button position could be somewhat abstracted, but it would mostly be a waste of time
[07:01] <Markrian> setite, DVD picture quality is a bit pants in xine, and anything which uses its libraries
[07:01] <jdub> and if it were done at the gtk+ level, it would be imposing policy in the toolkit
[07:01] <Jikkle> what's the command to start gnome?
[07:01] <Markrian> setite, it's not decryption that's the problem
[07:01] <regeya> jdub: okay; I guess I'm just cantankerous, and you're right, I suppose, that one should use a designer.  I'm one of those dorks who still uses a text editor for html, understand. ;-)
[07:02] <goofykinky> Markrian, look when ubuntu starts on my system it hangs in the "Starting Hotplug Subsystem" thing and some times it finish loading and some times no..
[07:02] <jdub> Jikkle: just log in with gdm in a normal install
[07:02] <chibifs> Even though I detest using it, I find mplayer best for movie playback of any kind.
[07:02] <jdub> regeya: no one writes glade files by hand.
[07:02] <Jikkle> ok ty
[07:02] <Markrian> goofykinky, what peripherals do you have connected to your PC
[07:02] <setite> Markrian - a "bit of pants"? and what is the problem
[07:02] <jdub> regeya: modifications, yes, authoring, no.
[07:02] <setite> are there better libraries
[07:02] <regeya> glade is mandatory?  again, ignorant of the process...
[07:02] <Markrian> setite, "a bit pants" means "rubbish", "not good"
[07:03] <goofykinky> Markrian, i have one usb cam thats all
[07:03] <jdub> regeya: glade is the ui designer, libglade is the tool that builds the interface out of the .glade file xml description.
[07:03] <setite> ok i agree.. is there a solution?
[07:03] <rob0> What's the logic in the setup's automatic partitioning? On my 12GB laptop I got 11.x for / and about 490 swap. I'm going to have to parted ...
[07:03] <Markrian> setite, there is gstreamer, but that's not much better. OSS DVD playback isn't perfect
[07:03] <Markrian> yet
[07:03] <mebaran> I am going to query a third and final time.
[07:03] <jdub> regeya: but realistically, no one writes glade files without using the glade designer. that would be pretty insane.
[07:03] <chibifs> Ehk. That reminds me, both my BTTV card and CPiA camera make my system fail to boot :/
[07:03] <regeya> jdub:  right, and I swear I've seen apps that *don't* use glade.
[07:03] <mebaran> Does anybody know why grub mysteriously cant find my kernels but for ONE, and the original.
[07:03] <jdub> regeya: oh, apps don't have to use libglade.
[07:03] <poof> if you guys are gammers may I suggest, Cromium, Gltron, and Return To castle Wolfinstein Enemy terratory... any one got any more gool game I should try?
[07:04] <Markrian> goofykinky, the camera might be causing the problem I'm afraid
[07:04] <chibifs> Ewwwww Gltron :P
[07:04] <poof> cool not gool
[07:04] <Markrian> perhaps only attach it when you use it
[07:04] <chibifs> Armagettron owns it :D
[07:04] <jdub> regeya: though few people really write a *lot* of gtk+ ui generation code manually.
[07:04] <jdub> because it's boring and unfulfilling
[07:04] <setite> does mplayer play mp3s?
[07:05] <mebaran> its better than taking out the trash
[07:05] <poof> Ok I forgot Frozen Bubble
[07:05] <mebaran> setite: mplayer plays everything
[07:05] <Markrian> setite, yes, but it's not ideal for that
[07:05] <setite> ok...
[07:05] <goofykinky> Markrian, i'm afraid so, well thats one part of it, then my cable modem does not start by default and i already check the "start internet by default" whats wrong there?
[07:05] <daniels> (the general way to do it in Qt/KDE is to design it with Qt Designer, take the generated C++, make it less astonishingly shit, and ship that)
[07:05] <mebaran> I find mplayer fine for everything
[07:06] <setite> well xine is ideal
[07:06] <mebaran> Python is fine for my programming needs.
[07:06] <brian__> ne one try xine and like it over gstreamer?
[07:06] <setite> but it makes me feel like my eyes are bad
[07:06] <mebaran> But then again I dont do much
[07:06] <jdub> regeya: so next time, do the opinionating after asking lots of questions, instead of before. people respond better that way.
[07:06] <MacPlusG3> daniels: i think the words "generated" and "c++" equal evil :)
[07:06] <Markrian> goofykinky, is the cable modem otherwise correctly configured, do you know? (i.e., IP address/DHCP set up, etc)
[07:06] <MacPlusG3> daniels: and explain a lot :)
[07:06] <jdub> daniels: how often is the kde equivalent to libglade used?
[07:06] <setite> what repo has the latest builds of totem
[07:07] <pdkl> brian__: use the gstreamer-xine package
[07:07] <Markrian> brian__, imo xine is much more capable at the moment
[07:07] <jdub> daniels: we ran away from generated code a while back (though doing it with C++ can be less insane)
[07:07] <setite> pdkl what is that
[07:07] <Markrian> but I prefer to use gstreamer where I can
[07:07] <poof> Xine is cool, Ican se most of my porn, but WMF files dont seem to work, they dont work for Mplayer either? how may I view all things good and latex, if i cant see wmv?
[07:07] <regeya> jdub: okeydoke, you seem to be of fairly typical mindset...it's midnight here, and I don't wish to point out that a third option of convenience code might be nice for some, and you don't seem to want to discuss alternatives anyway.  jdub, you may not realize this, but I'm a little more intelligent than you seem to assume, but hell, I couldn't care less if you think I'm talking out my ass.  I guess I can't have an opinion unles
[07:07] <regeya> s I'm a GNOME dev or a Joe Sixpack who doesn't even know what IRC is.  Thanks for your time.
[07:07] <pdkl> it makes the default applications like totem movie player work on nearly all avis
[07:07] <chibifs> Mplayer is best at decoding windows formats, poof.
[07:07] <regeya> 'night.
[07:07] <Markrian> poof, you need to install win32 codecs
[07:07] <goofykinky> Markrian,  yes my DHCP its correctly configured but every time i have the chance to log in on my system i have to start it manually..
[07:07] <pdkl> except VLC runs .bin & cue
[07:07] <BROKEN_LADDER> how can i prevent apt-get dist-upgrade from downgrading from newer packages i've personally installed?
[07:07] <jdub> heh
[07:07] <brian__> theres a paxkage for windows files
[07:08] <brian__> codecs*
[07:08] <jdub> i wish i could point out to him that gtk+ is the convenience library.
[07:08] <jdub> oh well.
[07:08] <brian__> oh mak beat me to it
[07:08] <Markrian> goofykinky, what command do you use to start it manually?
[07:08] <brian__> mark*
[07:08] <pdkl> i havent even installed any w32 codecs
[07:09] <mebaran> where do I get them
[07:09] <brian__> i needed them cuz some of my music is wma
[07:09] <brian__> just search in synaptic
[07:09] <pdkl> brian__:  just a reminder those w32 codecs wont play signed wmas
[07:09] <brian__> or add  the repos in http://ubuntuguide.org/
[07:09] <goofykinky> Markrian, well i go under the networking seccion on my computer configuration settings and then i check the section "Activate when computer starts"
[07:10] <brian__> yea no drm wmas
[07:10] <Markrian> And do you click OK/Apply?
[07:11] <brian__> anyone know if it's safe to upgrade kernel in synaptic?
[07:11] <goofykinky> Markrian, yes i click ok and Apply
[07:12] <froust> anyone know how to remove an unknown gdesklet from my desktop?
[07:12] <setite> mplayer wont run
[07:12] <setite> i installed xmms mplayer
[07:13] <setite> are gstreamer and xine the only libs out ther
[07:13] <daniels> jdub: never; i didn't know it existed (it may be new to qt4)
[07:13] <daniels> jdub: the generated code wasn't too bad, it just had a lot of unnecessary stuff and looked like arse
[07:13] <daniels> jdub: so all my kopete ui code was originally generated from qt designer, then hacked to hell
[07:14] <setite> i wonder if powerdvd would run under wine
[07:14] <setite> where do i get wine
 yes
 be sure to get winae ALSA package if your system uses alsa
[07:14] <Markrian> goofykinky, basically the file /etc/network/interfaces needs to have a line in it saying "auto eth0", where eth0 is the device name of the modem
[07:14] <Markrian> erm
[07:14] <setite> i dont knwo why my system uses
[07:15] <setite> where do i get it
[07:15] <poof> ALSA is debian default
[07:15] <poof> err
[07:15] <mebaran> mplayer is as good as power DVD
[07:15] <poof> ubuntu
[07:15] <Markrian> ALSA support is broken in wine and has been for a while
[07:15] <setite> well mplayer wont run
[07:15] <setite> it says starting mplayer but nothing pops up
[07:16] <goofykinky> Markrian, ok let me check it!
[07:16] <poof> type gmplayer in commandline
[07:16] <poof> gmplayer has GUI
[07:16] <poof> you may need to APT-GET GMplayer
[07:17] <goofykinky> Markrian, look this is what it says # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
[07:17] <goofykinky> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
[07:17] <goofykinky> # The loopback network interface
[07:17] <goofykinky> auto lo
[07:17] <goofykinky> iface lo inet loopback
[07:17] <goofykinky> iface eth0 inet dhcp
[07:17] <goofykinky> name Ethernet LAN card
[07:17] <setite> wtf
[07:17] <goofykinky> auto eth0
[07:17] <setite> its not working
[07:17] <setite> i added the ubuntu wine repo but its not working
[07:18] <setite> i bet i didnt case it right
[07:18] <HostingGeek> 0_o what happened to #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:18] <setite> stupid case sensitivity
[07:19] <Markrian> goofykinky, I'm probably wrong, but I think "auto eth0" has to come before any other mention of eth0
[07:20] <yoko_ubuntu> Q: how does one change their resolution in warty?
[07:20] <goofykinky> Markrian, ok should i move it?
[07:20] <Markrian> goofykinky, try it, yeah
[07:20] <goofykinky> Markrian,  and i suppose i need to restart right?
[07:21] <setite> would i be able to get cedega CVS via apt-get?
[07:21] <Markrian> then run the command "sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart" - that'll disconnect you, and hopefully reconnet you
[07:22] <mebaran> out of curiousity
[07:22] <mebaran> Mmplayer complains it cant lock /dev/mixer
[07:22] <Markrian> goofykinky, generally in linux you can modify pretty much anything and it take effect without a complete system restart
[07:22] <mebaran> hod od I solve that
[07:22] <poof> did you do the Mplayer script from the forum?
[07:22] <brian__> omg rhythm box froze...
[07:22] <goofykinky> Markrian, oooh thank god another linux advantage..
[07:23] <Markrian> goofykinky, time for me to hit the sac - good luck
[07:23] <setite> with wine can i run PowerDVD straight from the windows partition?
[07:23] <goofykinky> Markrian,  thankyou very much for all!!
[07:23] <Markrian> np
[07:24] <poof> you guy got WINGS 3D yet? the new auto UV mapping totaly ROCKS!!
[07:26] <mebaran> what is the windows partition formatted as
[07:27] <setite> ntfs
[07:27] <mebaran> ntfs might be a tad difficult
[07:27] <mebaran> you could probably do it
[07:27] <setite> where is wine
[07:28] <mebaran> but it is not worth the hassle and mplayer is fine
[07:28] <setite> nope
[07:28] <setite> mplayer wont run
[07:28] <froust> has anyone installed the amd64-k8 kernel?
[07:28] <mebaran> I tried
[07:29] <setite> how do you find the name of a program
[07:29] <setite> like i know you can type half the name
[07:29] <setite> and press somethign to get a list of what it might be
[07:29] <mebaran> press tab
[07:29] <deepfry> try tab
[07:30] <setite> oh god there is alot of wine stuff
[07:30] <setite> i need the help guide
[07:30] <poof> just the bas packaged should get you going on wine
[07:30] <poof> base
[07:30] <poof> 1 sec
[07:31] <mebaran> wine is weird though
[07:31] <mebaran> it normally doesnt work
[07:31] <setite> thats all i got
[07:31] <yoko_ubuntu> wine doesn't work?
[07:32] <brian__> you should use like side net
[07:32] <deepfry> wine usually works if your system can handle it
[07:32] <brian__> to configuire wine to work better
[07:32] <setite> setite@ubuntu:~ $ win
[07:32] <setite> wine              winecpp           wine-kthread      wine-preloader
[07:32] <setite> wineboot          winedbg           winelauncher      wine-pthread
[07:32] <setite> winebrowser       winedump          winemaker         wineserver
[07:32] <setite> winebuild         winefile          winemine          wineshelllink
[07:32] <setite> winecfg           wineg++           winepath          winhelp
[07:32] <setite> wineconsole       winegcc           wineprefixcreate  winicontoppm
[07:33] <setite> it installed all that
[07:33] <brian__> winesetup tk doesnt work when u install it right?
[07:33] <brian__> *doesnt install
[07:34] <setite> ??
[07:34] <setite> i installed wine
[07:34] <setite> with synaptic
[07:34] <setite> with http://wine.sourceforge.net/Ubuntu/apt/ as the repo
[07:35] <setite> http://wine.sourceforge.net/Ubuntu/apt/  binary/
[07:35] <brian__> if u want to run a windows program just double click exe
[07:37] <brian__> your fake windows drive should be at /home/you/.wine/drive_c
[07:38] <mebaran> Fourth query for grub.
[07:38] <mebaran> New people new answers.
[07:39] <mebaran> Anybody here know how to fix a grub that boots only one kernel.
[07:39] <mebaran> It seems not to be able to follow the paths correctly
[07:39] <setite> ok imma copy it over
[07:39] <MM2> ok, ubuntu got installed to computer class, all works fine with 15 comps, but 2 of them...
[07:40] <MM2> can't log in to them
[07:40] <MM2> I must use single mode to access command line
[07:40] <MM2> single user mode, I ment
[07:41] <MM2> to other comp I could log in nice (it had no network cable) and I rebooted it -> can't log in now
[07:41] <netzone_tech> hello
[07:41] <netzone_tech> when would hoary be out?
[07:41] <MM2> It doesn't ask for a password even,
[07:42] <brian__> hoary out in april
[07:42] <netzone_tech> oh..
[07:42] <netzone_tech> would it support 3d hardware acceleration?
[07:42] <brian__> umm i think every 6 moths
[07:42] <netzone_tech> i have ATI card...
[07:42] <brian__> of course
[07:42] <brian__> oh..
[07:42] <brian__> not shure im nvidia
[07:42] <netzone_tech> and i don't think ATI has released the driver for xorg
[07:42] <outsider1> Whats the best way to mount windows partitions in linux? Must I use that /media folder?
[07:42] <brian__> srry mm2 i cant help u :(
[07:43] <brian__> i mounted my windows in /mnt/windows
[07:43] <netzone_tech> what was that about, MM2 ?
[07:43] <outsider1> brian__: using /etc/fstab ?
[07:43] <brian__> he installed ubuntu to 15 comps
[07:43] <brian__> but 2 wont login
[07:43] <netzone_tech> eh???
[07:43] <netzone_tech> strange
[07:44] <netzone_tech> same hardware spec??
[07:44] <brian__> not shure he literally shut up :S
[07:44] <netzone_tech> oh
[07:44] <maximaus> outsider1, just add this line to /etc/fstab (change hda1 as needed): /dev/hda1       /mnt/windows    ntfs    umask=0222      0       0
[07:45] <cg0def> how would you compare/contrast gentoo to ubuntu
[07:45] <cg0def> I am thinking of withcing from gentoo but I am not yet sure
[07:45] <netzone_tech> one is based on debian..
[07:45] <netzone_tech> the other i don't know
[07:45] <netzone_tech> hehe
[07:45] <cg0def> I know that
[07:45] <cg0def> gentoo is source based
[07:45] <netzone_tech> one uses apt.. the other uses portage or something like that..  (i guess you know this as well)
[07:45] <froust> I just rebooted and got stuck at a grub> prompt
[07:45] <froust> how do i get into linux?
[07:45] <cg0def> I was wondering how up to date ubuntu is
[07:45] <netzone_tech> other than that...... i don't know
[07:46] <jdub> cg0def: it's released every six months
[07:46] <jdub> cg0def: so the oldest stuff you're going to get is max six months
[07:46] <mebaran> based on Debian Unstable
[07:46] <mebaran> and most of the stuff is kept fairly new
[07:46] <jdub> mebaran: we like to say "sid" :-)
[07:46] <froust> anyone?
[07:46] <cg0def> yeah but don't you get updated packages whenever new releases come out?
[07:46] <cg0def> say gtk releases a new version
[07:46] <netzone_tech> that would depends on which repository you are updating against, isn't it?
[07:46] <jdub> cg0def: not in the stable release, no. otherwise it wouldn't be stable or supportable.
[07:47] <jdub> cg0def: our development branches are always changing.
[07:47] <cg0def> do you have to wait for the next release or it goes in world pretty fast
[07:47] <jdub> cg0def: it will go in the development branch immediately (we actually track gnome development branch)
[07:47] <cg0def> oh I see
[07:47] <brian__> can someone help me in recompilin kernel w/ a new wacom tablet driver in source??
[07:47] <jdub> cg0def: it will not go into a stable release (otherwise it wouldn't be stable, etc. etc.)
[07:47] <cg0def> jdub: the gnome traching is exactly what I like in ubuntu
[07:48] <cg0def> I use gnome all the time and gentoo has somewhat crappy support
[07:48] <cg0def> many outdated packages and other stuff like that
[07:48] <cg0def> even in the unstable branch
[07:48] <jdub> of course, in gentoo, debian and ubuntu, you can contribute.
[07:49] <cg0def> hum well that is only in theory in gentoo
[07:49] <cg0def> but that's another topic
[07:49] <froust> can anyone help me?
[07:49] <brian__> oh wait nvm *uses tutorial
[07:50] <setite> ok that was a failed attempt
[07:50] <jdub> brian__: there's a howto on the wiki
[07:50] <outsider1> what is the correct way for me to compile my own kernel for ubuntu? Must I package it?
[07:50] <jdub> outsider1: there's a howto in the wiki
[07:51] <outsider1> jdub: kewl, thanx
[07:52] <brian__> thats wut i was using when i said nvm :D
[07:52] <brian__> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelHowto
[07:56] <froust> can anyone help me?
[07:57] <froust> i'm stuck at a grub> prompt
[07:57] <brian__> are you like a diff system?
[07:57] <brian__> mite wanna try making a grub boot disk
[07:58] <brian__> are you at* a diff system
[07:58] <froust> brain: i was editing my menu.list
[07:58] <froust> i'm in ubuntu
[07:58] <froust> and i rebooted
[07:58] <froust> and now i'm stuck at grub>>
[07:58] <goofykinky> hi again, where do i configure manually de audio?
[07:59] <brian__> boot ? Boots the operating system or chain loader that has been previously specified and loaded
[07:59] <brian__> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/ref-guide/s1-grub-commands.html
[07:59] <cg0def> I am not very familiar with debian but can you specify any procesor optimizations that you want your packages to have?
[08:00] <brian__> thats all i can do
[08:00] <cg0def> like athlon-xp for example
[08:00] <mebaran> cg0def: like what?
[08:00] <mdz> cg0def: this is discussed in the FAQ
[08:00] <froust> boot returns "kernel must be loaded before booting"
[08:00] <setite> damn wine
[08:00] <froust> do you know the name of the amd64 generic 2.6.10 kernel?
[08:00] <setite> it wont install it
[08:00] <cg0def> mdz: sorry didn't know that
[08:00] <froust> the full name/
[08:01] <mdz> froust: warty or hoary?
[08:01] <yokomo_> oh crap
[08:01] <setite> ive got a blank installshield
[08:01] <yokomo_> I wonder how much longer before wine crashes my system...
[08:01] <setite> and this in the terminal
[08:01] <setite> Wine-dbg>
[08:01] <yokomo_> I cannot open a terminal
[08:01] <froust> mdz: hoary
[08:02] <yokomo_> whew
[08:02] <yokomo_> that was scary
[08:02] <setite> grrr
[08:02] <setite> work damnit
[08:02] <setite> how much does crossover office cost
[08:02] <mdz> froust: linux-image-2.6.10-1-amd64-generic
[08:03] <froust> and it's in /boot?
[08:03] <setite> apox
[08:03] <froust> crap
[08:03] <froust> i need the full path
[08:03] <setite> yokomo what did you do
[08:05] <setite> screw this imma go lay down before i have to go to work...
[08:05] <IgnoranceIsBliss> yup
[08:06] <yokomo_> setite, I ran winecfg
[08:06] <IgnoranceIsBliss> what is that
[08:06] <froust> anyone know the full path of the kernel in ubuntu?
[08:06] <poof> LOL!! Soldat works under WINE ... the text is screwed up but still is verry fun game :)
[08:06] <yokomo_> and told it to run a virtual desktop
[08:06] <yokomo_> that wasn't cool
[08:06] <brian__> u got soldat working?!
[08:06] <IgnoranceIsBliss> how do i do that yokomo
[08:06] <brian__> winecfg doesnt actually save settings deso it?
[08:06] <poof> http://www.soldat.prv.pl/
[08:07] <brian__> haha i luv dat ga,e
[08:07] <poof> yea it will I have it windowed with antialius
[08:07] <IgnoranceIsBliss> no it doesnt
[08:07] <brian__> game*
[08:07] <froust> anybody?
[08:07] <yokomo_> IgnoranceIsBliss, run winecfg
[08:07] <poof> WOOT!
[08:07] <yokomo_> just type in winecfg
[08:07] <yokomo_> and check the checkbox
[08:07] <poof> this is cool, I am going to try running a server
[08:07] <yokomo_> but it almost crashed my system
[08:07] <brian__> haah
[08:07] <yokomo_> it was fun to watch... (not really)
[08:08] <IgnoranceIsBliss> it got al screwy
[08:08] <jdub> froust: /vmlinuz
[08:08] <IgnoranceIsBliss> what resolution
[08:08] <poof> 800X600
[08:08] <froust> wtf?!
[08:09] <froust> is that /vmlinuz from the root?
[08:09] <IgnoranceIsBliss> ok done
[08:09] <IgnoranceIsBliss> wheres the desktop
[08:09] <yokomo_> bah
[08:09] <yokomo_> this sucks
[08:09] <IgnoranceIsBliss> what
[08:09] <yokomo_> I am trying to install 123free solitaire on this machine with wine
[08:09] <IgnoranceIsBliss> i selected it
[08:09] <yokomo_> but it is crashing like a bitch
[08:10] <IgnoranceIsBliss> i can probably just run the solitair windows executable i have
[08:11] <poof> install soldat under wine is how I got it working... it is not good idea to run things on NTFS partition
[08:12] <IgnoranceIsBliss> where is my virtual desktop?
[08:12] <yokomo_> poof, got what working?
[08:12] <poof> http://www.soldat.prv.pl/
[08:12] <poof> Soldat
[08:12] <IgnoranceIsBliss> where does windows keep games
[08:12] <IgnoranceIsBliss> like solitair
[08:12] <poof> in windows system32 folder
[08:13] <poof> or windows system folder
[08:13] <poof> do search for sol.*
[08:13] <poof> that is solitare
[08:13] <IgnoranceIsBliss> wine sol.*
[08:13] <IgnoranceIsBliss> ?
[08:13] <poof> or rightclick on the shortcut on startmenu shortcut and get propertys
[08:14] <poof> then press find parent button
[08:14] <poof> are you in windows?
[08:14] <IgnoranceIsBliss> no
[08:14] <poof> Oh
[08:15] <IgnoranceIsBliss> i wouldnt have problems if i was in windows
[08:15] <poof> I am NOOB I think commandline for search is called :   find
[08:15] <poof> find --help I think, wait i try it
[08:15] <poof> yup find --help works
[08:16] <IgnoranceIsBliss> well at least wine can run solitaire
[08:17] <IgnoranceIsBliss> ok now... i want to run powerdvd
[08:17] <poof> Good luck
[08:18] <lifeless> .
[08:18] <poof> I think kb3 will let you burn DVD also
[08:19] <newsbunny> Hi folks, would this be the right forum for PowerPC / Ubuntu questions?
[08:20] <yokomo_> grrrr
[08:20] <yokomo_> this is frustrating
[08:21] <poof> define "this" <yokomo_> ?
[08:21] <poof> :)
[08:21] <IgnoranceIsBliss> wine
[08:21] <IgnoranceIsBliss> is evil
[08:21] <yokomo_> wine
[08:21] <poof> yea wine dont work most of the time
[08:21] <yokomo_> I am on the wine website and they say something about a .wine/config file
[08:21] <yokomo_> which is not on my machine
[08:21] <yokomo_> anywhere
[08:22] <maniak_> Hi, I am trying to install lm-sensors. I have found the FAQ but cannot find the mkdev.sh script in the lm-sensors source - I can't locate the lm-sensors source.....please help
[08:22] <froust> can anyone suggest a good partitioning scheme?
[08:22] <froust> i have 15 gb to work with
[08:23] <mebaran> Are you sure you set it show hidden folders, one with a "." in front?
[08:23] <IgnoranceIsBliss> 15gb to linux
[08:23] <IgnoranceIsBliss> and 0 for the rest
[08:23] <newsbunny> yokomo_ - it usually sits in your home dir (hidden) and is created after you run wine for the first time. You've done this?
[08:23] <froust> i mean /boot / /home
[08:23] <maniak_> Yes I have hidden folders shown - I just don't know where to look (which dir) to look in
[08:24] <IgnoranceIsBliss> screw this
[08:24] <yokomo_> when you say ran for the first time... what do you mean?
[08:24] <yokomo_> I installed it using apt-get
[08:24] <IgnoranceIsBliss> is there a Point2Play CVS?
[08:24] <yokomo_> I typed in winecfg
[08:24] <yokomo_> and nothing has happened
[08:24] <IgnoranceIsBliss> really?
[08:24] <yokomo_> I tried installing a exe file
[08:25] <yokomo_> and it crashed
[08:25] <IgnoranceIsBliss> when i typed it i got a little iwndows like program
[08:25] <IgnoranceIsBliss> yea mine froze
[08:25] <newsbunny> yokomo_ - yeah, then just run wine with no parameters from the console (NOT root). It will run through a script that sets up wine and a fake_windows directory
[08:26] <yokomo_> newsbunny, ummmmm.... did that... using just "wine"
[08:26] <newsbunny> after that, you can launch some Windoze exe's with "wine foo.exe"
[08:26] <yokomo_> I get wine 20050111
[08:26] <yokomo_> Usage: wine PROGRAM [ARGUMENTS] 
[08:26] <yokomo_> wine --help
[08:26] <yokomo_> wine --version
[08:27] <newsbunny> seems to be set up correctly then...
[08:27] <IgnoranceIsBliss> screw all this.. ill have my a64 rig working sometime tomorrow... and ill buy cedega then
[08:27] <yokomo_> it won't let me play this game and there is no .wine/config file
[08:27] <IgnoranceIsBliss> cedega is based off wine so it can do this too right
[08:28] <newsbunny> in your home dir, can you see a .wine dir if you do 'ls -l' in it?
[08:28] <yokomo_> yes
[08:28] <yokomo_> I have dosdevices
[08:28] <yokomo_> drive_c
[08:28] <yokomo_> system.reg
[08:28] <yokomo_> userdef.reg
[08:28] <yokomo_> user.reg
[08:28] <yokomo_> but no config
[08:28] <yokomo_> or conf
[08:29] <newsbunny> but no hmmm...
[08:29] <newsbunny> odd.
[08:29] <yokomo_> yes
[08:29] <yokomo_> tell me about it
[08:29] <newsbunny> shall I send you mine?
[08:29] <yokomo_> ?
[08:29] <yokomo_> sure
[08:29] <yokomo_> that would be super
[08:29] <newsbunny> perhaps you can tweak it
[08:30] <newsbunny> dunno if it will go through firewall...
[08:31] <newsbunny> can you see the DCC file offer?
[08:31] <yokomo_> eyah
[08:31] <yokomo_> I accepted
[08:31] <yokomo_> but nothing
[08:31] <yokomo_> would you mind emailing it to me as an attachment?
[08:31] <yokomo_> would that be alright?
[08:31] <newsbunny> np
[08:31] <newsbunny> addr?
[08:31] <yokomo_> yokomo at gmail dot com
[08:32] <newsbunny> done
[08:33] <yokomo_> thanks
[08:33] <newsbunny> sure
[08:33] <llamabutcher> i have been googling and cant seem to find the correct command to mount thi ntfs partition i have on my 250 gig drive... its 200 gigs and has all my movies and music from when i had xp
[08:33] <newsbunny> Anyone here know much about USB keyboard and installation on a G3 iMac?
[08:33] <llamabutcher> it is the slave on my primary channel
[08:33] <llamabutcher> what command do i use?
[08:34] <deadshell> llamabutcher, hi
[08:34] <deadshell> external drive?
[08:35] <yokomo_> what country is za?
[08:35] <poof> new zeland
[08:35] <yokomo_> I thought that was nz
[08:36] <poof> 0o
[08:36] <jdub> za == south africa
[08:36] <d3vic3> good ol SA
[08:36] <poof> Zinbawe?
[08:36] <d3vic3> no South Africa
[08:36] <jdub> zimbabwe is zw, isn't it d3vic3?
[08:37] <d3vic3> not sure
[08:37] <poof> http://www.gov.za/
[08:37] <poof> here is what firefox shows as default
[08:37] <d3vic3> www.southafrica.com
[08:39] <deadshell> llamabutcher, you still here
[08:40] <llamabutcher> yes
[08:40] <deadshell> is the drive a usb or is it in the computer
[08:41] <HostingGeek> 0_o BeTa
[08:41] <maniak_> Hey, has anyone else installed lm-sensors successfully??
[08:41] <HostingGeek> yes
[08:41] <HostingGeek> maniak_: about 99% of people here have them working
[08:41] <deadshell> llamabutcher, is the drive a usb or is it in the computer
[08:41] <HostingGeek> they may or may not know it
[08:42] <maniak_> HostingGeek - where do you put and run the mkdev.sh script?
[08:42] <HostingGeek> maniak_: i am one of 1% i need to update my bois for it to work
[08:43] <maniak_> oh - that is all I need - I can work the rest out from the FAQ on the forums.....
[08:43] <llamabutcher> its in the computer
[08:43] <llamabutcher> well not yet, i have to hook it up, but then it will be like hdc
[08:45] <deadshell> llamabutcher, it should look something like
[08:45] <deadshell> mount /dev/hdc
[08:46] <sid77> hi
[08:47] <llamabutcher> yeah
[08:47] <HostingGeek> maniak_: by any chance using a asus motherbaord
[08:47] <llamabutcher> but there is this whole command
[08:47] <llamabutcher> like mount -t vfat blah blah blah
[08:48] <deadshell> yeah that look more like it llamabutcher
[08:49] <brian__> hey when i install a custom kernel will i have to reconfiguire my bootloader?
[08:49] <chibifs> brian__ - Did you build it debian style, or classic style?
[08:50] <brian__> i havent built it yet, i will build it with the original ubuntu way
[08:50] <brian__> w/ ubuntu sources, and with kpkg
[08:50] <deadshell> llamabutcher, look here http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/topic-4730-12.html
[08:50] <chibifs> If it's a debian package, it will auto-add itself to grub.
[08:51] <brian__> no i boot off floppy
[08:51] <brian__> will it still add itsself? lol
[08:51] <chibifs> Then of course you will :P
[08:51] <chibifs> Why ya booting off a floppy, you nut? :o
[08:52] <newsbunny> later
[08:52] <brian__> its easier, plus my family wont have to boot and find linux i can just take out da floppy
[08:52] <chibifs> Ah.
[08:53] <brian__> or if a friend comes over to play a game i wont have to explain why i got this wierd thing at the begining of my boot
[08:53] <chibifs> Heh, now that's just silly. You can tell him "Because I'm better than you" :P
[08:53] <nevyn> is ubuntu 2.6 or 2.4 by default?
[08:53] <nevyn> on amd64?
[08:53] <chibifs> 2.6
[08:54] <nevyn> sweet.
[08:54] <brian__> 2.6 by def
[08:54] <brian__> so wut do i do
[08:54] <brian__> haha "sweet."
[08:54] <nevyn> anyone got bad things to say about the A8V-E asus board?
[08:54] <nevyn> and ubuntu?
[08:55] <rob0> uh, brian__, you have to make a new boot floppy.
[08:55] <nevyn> nvidias nforce "known issues" was disturbing. so I couldn't reccomend it.
[08:55] <nevyn> "some systems don't boot with acpi on"
[08:56] <chibifs> Nevyn, it should be fine unless you have A- Two video cards or B- Two sound cards.
[08:56] <brian__> oh ic when i make new kernel it automatically adds itself in this /boot/grub area and i make a floppy off dere
[08:56] <nevyn> chibifs: anything better?
[08:56] <brian__> oh dam i just realised im the only one not typing formally
[08:56] <nevyn> chibifs: a reccomended current board for amd64?
[08:57] <chibifs> ACPI causes your pci cards to share ports. But it usually doesn't cause problems unless you're using picky hardware.
[08:57] <nevyn> chibifs: this was the errata in nvidias drivers for NFORCE3 so I killed it.
[08:58] <nevyn> chibifs: as in recommended against it.
[08:58] <chibifs> You don
[08:58] <chibifs> don't /need/ it on.
[08:58] <chibifs> ^_^
[08:58] <brian__> ok im  gunna take a stab at a specific q see if anyone knows, is there a way to install a module/driver without having to compile the whole kernel?
[08:59] <chibifs> Nevyn - Can't rec one myself, but if you find a Micro ATX amd64 board with onboard card reader ports, let me know.
[08:59] <chibifs> I'm looking to build myself a tiny monster ^.~
[09:00] <rob0> how nuch does Ubuntu patch the vanilla kernel? Anyone know?
[09:01] <^majik> Hey guys.  I'm running BeatrIX on my laptop.  (It's based off of Ubuntu.)  And well, using Synaptic (with ubuntu's source list, more or less), I'm trying to get gcc going.  So far I've installed the 'gcc' package and now I have gcc.. but, I don't have the headers (such as stdio.h).  Which package or packages do I need?  Thanks.
[09:01] <jdub> a fair amount
[09:01] <rob0> brian__, depends on what module and if it needs changes in the kernel
[09:01] <jdub> ^majik: install build-essential
[09:01] <brian__> i need to put in a module for a wacom tablet
[09:02] <^majik> jdub: ok
[09:02] <rob0> obviously, if so, you won't need to do anything other than make modules and modules_install
[09:03] <brian__> the guy in the wiki nvr provided a link
[09:05] <^majik> jdub: That looks like that's for Debian packages and such?  I really only wanted gcc to build custom projects in C (or C++, maybe).
[09:05] <rob0> jdub, is there a wiki page on the patches, or do I need to go into how the .deb was built? Specifically I'm curious about what patches Ubuntu uses that Debian doesn't.
[09:07] <jdub> ^majik: you'll need most of what b-e depends on anyway
[09:07] <jdub> rob0: easiest to grab the source
[09:08] <rob0> ok thx
[09:09] <froust> does anyone know if it's possible to migrate from 32 bit to 64 bit?
[09:09] <^majik> jdub: well ok
[09:09] <jdub> froust: in what context? amd64?
[09:10] <jdub> froust: you can run both on amd64 (in fact, OOo is 32bit in warty and hoary)
[09:10] <jdub> froust: to 'migrate', install the amd64 version
[09:10] <froust> jdub: i mean if i installed the 32 bit version
[09:10] <jdub> (helps if you have a separate /home)
[09:10] <froust> could i upgrade it later
[09:10] <jdub> no
[09:10] <jdub> you can't cross-grade
[09:14] <iMeXdiAC> hi i've got some trouble getting my firewire/ilink connection to a harddrive to work .. well i can mount them view the files and copy them to the harddrive .. but writing to the fwdrive is extremely slow (ext3) and aborts .. what i get is quite a lot of "SBP2_SCSI_STATUS_BUSY" then "aborting sbp2 command" dmesg output .. im on a ppc (ibook) .. updated the kernel hotplug udev but to no avail
[09:15] <^majik> jdub: cool, thanks :-)
[09:16] <yokomo_> this is fucking ridiculous
[09:16] <yokomo_> I hate wine
[09:16] <yokomo_> is there another emulator?
[09:17] <yokomo_> it sucks donkey balls
[09:18] <iMeXdiAC> hmm yokomo in what respect .. speed or compatibility or getting it running ..
[09:19] <vincent> Hi, could anyone using a Geforce2 video card or on-board video, send me their /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file ? Pleaaase :o(
[09:20] <mathew> Can some help me to get sound working. I get the error "No volume control elements and/or devices found"
[09:21] <yokomo_> iMeXdiAC, getting it running
[09:21] <yokomo_> I have apt-get installed, removed
[09:21] <yokomo_> remove --purged
[09:21] <yokomo_> it sucks
[09:21] <yokomo_> it just won't work
[09:21] <yokomo_> it doesn't run anything to config itself
[09:21] <yokomo_> I cannot seem to config it
[09:22] <yokomo_> tried apt-get --source even... too many dependency errors to compile
[09:22] <yokomo_> so I went with the apt-get install again
[09:22] <yokomo_> it's a POS from what i can tell (I don't have much patience)
[09:24] <yokomo_> this is too rough
[09:24] <yokomo_> I am going back to windows
[09:24] <rob0> patience is important :)
[09:24] <yokomo_> too much of a hassle
[09:25] <yokomo_> since I installed ubuntu I have had to reinstall 3 times now... just too much to learn.  I am much more comfortable with windows
[09:25] <iMeXdiAC> yokomo_ .. unf cant help in that respect .. though did you read the man/info page that came with it ..
[09:26] <yokomo_> yes
[09:26] <yokomo_> I did
[09:26] <iMeXdiAC> hmm
[09:26] <yokomo_> it said to use their repository
[09:26] <yokomo_> which I did
[09:26] <deadshell> mathew did you try alsaconf if you are using alsa?
[09:26] <yokomo_> and nothing
[09:26] <rob0> well it (GNU/Linux) is worth the effort when you're ready to try again.
[09:26] <yokomo_> no it's not
[09:27] <yokomo_> it's a joke
[09:27] <rob0> bye
[09:28] <rob0> at least we can have the last laugh with this "joke" :)
[09:28] <deadshell> :P
[09:28] <iMeXdiAC> ..
[09:28] <mathew> deadshell i am a bit of a newbie at this. Is alsaconf a command line tool.
[09:29] <deadshell> mathew yes it sounds like you don't have sound setup yet
[09:29] <rob0> mathew, I don't have alsaconf in Ubuntu, but it's what the alsa-project provides, and has always worked well for me in Slackware.
[09:30] <rob0> and yes, in Slackware it's /usr/sbin/alsaconf
[09:30] <deadshell> in a terminal/console you can: apt-get install alsa
[09:30] <mathew> How do I tell if I am using Alsa
[09:31] <deadshell> and see if it says you already have the latest version
[09:31] <deadshell> it might be using oss
[09:32] <rob0> isn't ALSA the default for Ubuntu (and just about all other recent Linuces?)
[09:32] <jdub> ubuntu uses the alsa drivers, and the oss emulation layer
[09:32] <rob0> it would only be using OSS if specifically selected
[09:32] <jdub> all the apps default to esd or oss
[09:33] <jdub> (and esd uses oss)
[09:33] <deadshell> usually rob0 im using mepis now so i couldn't check for him
[09:33] <mathew> ist said alsa-base is the latest
[09:33] <deadshell> ok then as root mathew type alsaconf
[09:33] <deadshell> it will setup your card
[09:34] <rob0> mathew, what kind of card?
[09:35] <mathew> command is not found. Not sure what card. It was a spare machine and not sure how to check withpout opening it up
[09:35] <rob0> PCI or ISA? If you don't know that, open it up. :)
[09:36] <mathew> PCI
[09:36] <rob0> deadshell said alsaconf is in the "alsa" package
[09:36] <rob0> lspci lists PCI devices, post the line for the sound card
[09:37] <wu_ming> how do i upgrade software like gaim?
[09:37] <iMeXdiAC> anyone with firewire experience ..
[09:37] <wu_ming> not me
[09:37] <deadshell> mathew, did you do the command as root?
[09:37] <wu_ming> whats firewire
[09:38] <iMeXdiAC> wu_ming .. same as ieee1394 or ilink
[09:38] <mathew> deadshell yes
[09:38] <deadshell> iMeXdiAC, i tried to get my external burner to work with firewire to no avail
[09:39] <deadshell> wu_ming,  apt-get install gaim will get the latest version available in their repos
[09:39] <mathew> can not see the card using lspci. Maybe it is dead on the old machine asa I have not had this trouble before. Think I need to open it up.
[09:39] <wu_ming> deadshell: but thats old
[09:40] <wu_ming> outdated
[09:40] <deadshell> mathew, try lspci -v
[09:40] <rob0> mathew, the whole "lspci -v" on pastebin.com and I will look
[09:40] <iMeXdiAC> hmm .. deadshell .. was the problem with "aborting sbp2 command" .. i once had my fwdrive working on a 2.4 kernel ..
[09:40] <deadshell> wu_ming, is there a rpm of the latest?
[09:40] <rob0>  ( is there another paste site for this channel? )
[09:41] <deadshell> iMeXdiAC, never got it to see it(firewire drive)
[09:41] <wu_ming> yeah
[09:41] <wu_ming> but like what do i do with the rpm?
[09:42] <deadshell> wu_ming, download it and change it to a .deb file using alien i'll show you how
[09:42] <wu_ming> ok
[09:42] <iMeXdiAC> hmm .. thx anyway ..
[09:43] <deadshell> rob0, try #flood
[09:43] <deadshell> iMeXdiAC, id like to get it to work i'll google more when i have time
[09:43] <mathew> rob0 pasted
[09:44] <Qo-noS> ah deadshell
[09:44] <rob0> as root: "cd /bin ; rm rpm ; ln -s rm rpm" (yes that's a joke, sotra)
[09:44] <rob0> sorta
[09:44] <deadshell> yes Qo-noS
[09:45] <deadshell> i'm everywhere
[09:45] <Qo-noS> you are indeed ;)
[09:45] <deadshell> got it wu_ming
[09:45] <rob0> mathew, I've got 2 of those mobo's myself :)
[09:46] <wu_ming> i got a src.rpm
[09:46] <rob0> maybe it's not seated properly. But one of my 440BX's (oops I guess that's not what yours is) has an onboard ISA card.
[09:47] <wu_ming> how do i turn that into a rpm
[09:47] <deadshell> i'm not sure you want the source though
[09:47] <deadshell> wu_ming, ^^
[09:47] <rob0> wu_ming, why not use synaptic and upgrade?
[09:47] <wu_ming> the latest version is too old
[09:49] <mathew> rob0 I will open up and check
[09:49] <deadshell> wu_ming, look here http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=235&package_id=253&release_id=292861
[09:49] <wu_ming> thanks
[09:50] <wu_ming> already downloaded the gaim.src.rpm one
[09:50] <deadshell> is 1.1.1.hthe latest?
[09:50] <wu_ming> and aliened it
[09:50] <wu_ming> yeah
[09:50] <deadshell> ok cause they have i386 i586 one there
[09:51] <wu_ming> i think it is the latest
[09:51] <deadshell> well to install the .deb file just do
[09:51] <deadshell> dpkg -i nameof.deb
[09:53] <wu_ming> yeah it worked...thanks heaps!!
[09:53] <deadshell> np wu
[09:53] <mathew> rob0 opps is ISA
[09:53] <rob0> aha
[09:53] <Qo-noS> deadshell: he used alien to convert that rpm into a deb and got it to work? lucky him ;)
[09:54] <deadshell> Qo-noS, it works quite well sometimes
[09:54] <rob0> alsaconf has worked for some ISA cards for me, including the onboard one with the 440BX.
[09:54] <iMeXdiAC> hmm if i want to mount a hfsplus partion hotplug must have some check or another tool that only lets to mount me it read-only :( .. with the msg HFS+-fs warning: Filesystem was not cleanly unmounted, running fsck.hfsplus is recommended.  mounting read-only...
[09:54] <deadshell> g'night all
[09:55] <Qo-noS> deadshell: sometimes...but best practice still may be to package it oneself or just install from source
[09:55] <Qo-noS> ta
[09:55] <deadshell> yeah it is .....cya
[09:56] <iMeXdiAC> ..
[09:56] <iMeXdiAC> gn deadshell ..
[09:56] <mathew> rob0 can not seem to get the command aslaconf
[09:56] <Qo-noS> ta deadshell
[09:57] <mathew> should say alsaconf
[09:58] <iMeXdiAC> mathew .. alsaconf is a metapackage .. to be installed via apt i guess
[09:59] <scaroo> hi ppl ! are the repositories down ? i ve got 403 errors while upgrading my beloved system since yesterday.
[10:00] <mathew> rob0 found alsa-utils apt-getting now
[10:01] <rob0> I don't know where it is, IF it is, in Ubuntu. I've only used it in Slackware. But you can get it (it's a shell script) in the source from alsa-project.org. ... NB, I do have alsa-utils, but it doesn't seem to have alsaconf.
[10:01] <bigtony> question: where is the apache2-default set with the ubuntu distro? i can't figure out how to remove this default page
[10:01] <mathew> rob0 yes no alsaconf
[10:07] <stere0> if just get my ubuntu package ;o)
[10:07] <stere0> s/if/i
[10:08] <stere0> does anybody know, how many they are sending around the world?
[10:09] <ozzian> hi all!
[10:09] <ozzian> I'
[10:10] <ozzian> I'm having serious problems installing ubuntu...
[10:10] <ozzian> tried 3 different cd images all give the same error
[10:10] <mathew> thank for the halp. I think I will turn off and pull it out for a check. My also have another card around.
[10:11] <ozzian> says the file /cdrom/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz isn't readable
[10:12] <ozzian> same goes for warty, although I didn't try the latest warty ISO
[10:13] <rob0> sounds like maybe a bad burn, did you check md5sums?
[10:14] <ozzian> rob0, yup, and I can read the file from my gentoo installation or even windows
[10:15] <ozzian> the info above was from the log console
[10:15] <rob0> media error? Did you put in the cd and check the device's md5sum against the downloaded ISO? (I think that works, been a long time since I tried)
[10:16] <ozzian> rob0, will try
[10:18] <bigtony> sorry to repeat but how in the heck do you change the test page for apache thing ? i have put index.php in the dir and all i cna't figure it out
[10:18] <i386> hmm
[10:21] <budyong> what this mean ? "VFS cannot find ext3 on dev/hda1" i'm using ReiserFS on dev/hda1
[10:23] <ozzian> rob0, md5sum /dev/cdrom | grep 4f878f25803a3631207343295049f3cf
[10:23] <ozzian> rob0, that succeeds
[10:23] <rob0> bigtony, I've not done much with apache so I can't say specifically, but your answer is in your httpd.conf and/or Includes.
[10:24] <bigtony> apache2 doesn't use the httpd.conf from what i understand
[10:24] <rob0> ozzian, I'm at a loss, sorry.
[10:24] <bigtony> i thin its the sites-enabled but i'm not sure how to change it
[10:24] <ozzian> rob0, np, I'll have try again in a few weeks or so...
[10:24] <rob0> Apache 1 has links from the default page to the documentation, I don't use 2.
[10:24] <bigtony> and apache told me to come here cause its a ubuntu issue
[10:24] <rob0> hmmmm
[10:25] <bigtony> the apache2-default is located in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/default or a broken configuration shipped by Ubuntu Linux
[10:25] <bigtony> thats what was said thats why i'm here :(
[10:26] <bigtony> i mean my site works but the onlyw ay iknow how to solve the issuee is to drop a index.html in there and have it redirect to the php but there has to be another way
[10:26] <rob0> maybe apachectl (or its man page) will point you in the right direction
[10:27] <ozzian> bigtony, have you checked your config files to verify index.php is in your directory index list?
[10:27] <rob0> apachectl has a checkconf (?) function
[10:27] <bigtony> yeah
[10:27] <bigtony> I checked the DirectoryIndex
[10:27] <ozzian> bigtony, disclaimer: I'm not running ubuntu, just thought it might be general...
[10:28] <bigtony> its all good
[10:28] <bigtony> do you have to put them in order?
[10:28] <bigtony> like index.php index.html
[10:28] <ozzian> bigtony, yes
[10:28] <bigtony> instead of index.html index.php?
[10:28] <bigtony> hmm let me try that
[10:29] <rob0> did the Ubuntu wiki have a php-apache howto?
[10:29] <ozzian> bigtony, it tries the first one first then the next and son on
[10:29] <ozzian> bigtony, so*
[10:29] <rob0> could be browser cache too :)
[10:29] <bigtony> ok
[10:30] <bigtony> i'm gonna put only the phop in there and see
[10:30] <rob0> don't forget apachectl restart
[10:31] <bigtony> aww i thnk i see what i tis
[10:31] <bigtony> if you go to sites-enabled there is a default in there
[10:31] <bigtony> and it has RedirectMatch in there
[10:31] <bigtony> brb gonnna test that theory
[10:33] <bigtony> thats it works like a charm now
[10:34] <ozzian> grats :)
[10:46] <esher> how can i default disload pciehp and shpchp ... they messed up during bootprocess
[10:47] <cu> hello, I've got a question - where do I get those Ubuntu wallpapers with people on them? I've been able to find only the official one under /usr/share/gdm/themes, but I've seen there are others too
[10:51] <cu> anyone?
[10:52] <cu> ow, this seems to be ubuntu-calendar
[10:52] <cu> yay
[10:57] <jdub> cu: yeah, ubuntu-calendar (and see the other ubuntu-calendar-* packages for previous months)
[10:58] <i386> jdub, Interesting to see how ubuntu runs on the Macmini
[10:59] <esher> where can i put modules to force loading into ubuntu ?
[11:04] <topyli> esher: /etc/modules i guess
[11:05] <esher> yo, but there are not these modules listed, that ubuntu fails to load @ boot
[11:06] <topyli> yeah. i get errors from them too. dunno why they're there
[11:07] <topyli> esher: discover or something maybe loading them
[11:07] <jadawin> 2
[11:07] <jadawin> oops.
[11:07] <jadawin> sorry
[11:07] <esher> i only will say to ubuntu: DONT load modules a b c d :)
[11:08] <esher> i think there was an textfile or so, but who ?
[11:08] <topyli> esher: it's not discover. i don't have it installed :)
[11:09] <esher> hehe
[11:10] <peglax> Why do manually-added items on the Applications/Other menu disappear when upgrading gnome-panel? And how do I bring them back? The files still are in ~/.gnome2/vfolders/applications
[11:12] <mumu> ..
[11:12] <mumu> Hi
[11:12] <mumu> i need a support
[11:12] <mumu> language support on ubuntu warty
[11:13] <mumu> -   -
[11:19] <esher> where can i put modules to force loading into ubuntu ?
[11:21] <dwa_> if you put them in /etc/modules they will be loaded when you start your machine
[11:21] <esher> in etc/modules these modules are not listed
[11:22] <esher> find it :)
[11:22] <esher> ./etc/hotplug/blacklist
[11:23] <dwa_> if you want a module to auto-load you can put it in /etc/modules
[11:24] <dwa_> can you please specify your problem?
[11:25] <esher> i have found an answer, thanx
[11:25] <esher> i only want say to ubuntu witch modules NOT be loaded
[11:26] <dwa_> oooo ok :)
[11:28] <topyli> esher: hooray!
[11:33] <topyli> what's a good gnome notekeeping app. i currently use 'note' in a terminal. which is good bot non-gnome
[11:33] <trey3> topyli: there is a gdesklet that seems popular... also an applet...
[11:33] <jdub> topyli: how about tomboy?
[11:33] <trey3> you don't like either?
[11:33] <jdub> topyli: it's the ultimate sticky wiki :)
[11:34] <trey3> oo... tomboy looks nice also  :)
[11:34] <topyli> jdub: last i looked it was marking all my finnish words as typos, couldn't turn it off :(
[11:35] <topyli> no gdesklets please :)
[11:36] <trey3> topyli: hah... not a huge fan?
[11:36] <topyli> trey3: gdesklets heat up my cpu too much :)
[11:36] <trey3> I like them... but rarely keep them around...
[11:36] <jintonic> when i originally installed ubuntu the sound was working but somehow it stopped working, my botherboard has a Realtek ALC650 audio chipset on it, what should i do?
[11:37] <trey3> topyli: ahh... that sucks  :(
[11:37] <topyli> trey3: yeah, i don't know why they are so hungry
[11:38] <trey3> jintonic: try running 'alsaconfig' again... maybe configuration got muggled...
[11:38] <jintonic> command not found
[11:39] <trey3> jintonic: grr... install it   :)
[11:39] <topyli> jdub: i'll look at the latest tomboy. if the spell checking can be turned off now, it's perfect
[11:40] <jintonic> install alsaconfig? apt-get didn't work
[11:40] <jintonic> alsa-base is already the newest version
[11:40] <jintonic> that's what apt-get tells me when i just tried to install it
[11:41] <trey3> jintonic: grrr... hold on
[11:44] <topyli> heh. i don't seem to have mono installed, so my tomboy installation seems to be a huge download :)
[11:46] <topyli> hmm. tomboy crashed. not very nice
[11:47] <trey3> jintonic: ahh... this came up a few days ago... I think crimsun was helping you with it?  bah.. modprobe snd-intel8x0 and put that in /etc/modules
[11:47] <jintonic> no
[11:47] <trey3> jintonic: what you mean 'no'?
[11:47] <jintonic> never came in here with an audio problem, only x problems
[11:47] <trey3> damn server split  :/
[11:48] <trey3> jintonic: anyways... yeah... if its not loaded, I'm not sure how to fix without alsaconf  :/
[11:48] <trey3> why they would remove it, I have no idea   :/
[11:49] <jintonic> modprobe snd-intel8x0 <-- after running that it should work, right?
[11:49] <trey3> jintonic: should... yes
[11:50] <jintonic> its not working
[11:50] <jintonic> i have the speaker icon on the top right, when i open up volume controls it shows OSS mixer and alsa mixer tabs
[11:51] <d3vic3> what is hoary's version number, anyone ?
[11:51] <trey3> d3vic3: it will be 5.04 ...
[11:52] <d3vic3> 4.10 -> 5.04 ?
[11:52] <trey3> d3vic3: yes... October of 2004 was last release... next is April of 2005
[11:52] <jintonic> and the hardware is shown in lspci... hm... that's weird
[11:53] <trey3> jintonic: you know it sees it... it _was_ working (as you said)
[11:53] <jintonic> yeah
[11:53] <jintonic> but i was thinking maybe i disabled it via bios, but apparently not
[11:53] <d3vic3> ok ty
[11:54] <jintonic> well, should a kernel module be running for it?
[11:55] <trey3> jintonic: thats what snd-intel0x8 was... was what google said for driver  :/
[11:55] <battletux> hi all
[11:55] <jintonic> hmm.. lsmod shows it loaded along with some other snd_*
[11:56] <trey3> jintonic: ok... thats good... cept you said its still not working...  :/
[11:56] <trey3> battletux: hey...
[11:56] <jintonic> yeah
[11:58] <HostingGeek> chttp://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/13/0319247&tid=100&tid=99 comment #3 is mine
[11:58] <HostingGeek> ooops wrong tab
[11:58] <battletux> anyone have any luck getting ati drivers to work in warty?
[11:59] <trey3> jintonic: just for kicks... turn up PCM in Volume Control...
[11:59] <jintonic> i checked all the stuff like that first
[11:59] <jintonic> including the connection, power to the speakers, etc..
[12:08] <jintonic> how about a package reconfigure on the driver?
[12:11] <linux_mafia> what does the "dfsg" mean/stand for, in the latest version of firefox for hoary?
[12:11] <jintonic> hmm
[12:11] <linux_mafia> in the package name that is
[12:11] <jintonic> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=10520 <-- same problem maybe... 2.6.10 is in testing still isn't it?
[12:12] <trey3> linux_mafia: Debian Free Software Guideline ... means something with a strange license was removed..
[12:12] <trey3> (in this case icons afaik)
[12:13] <linux_mafia> trey3, cheers, just saw in google anyway, should of looked their first (feeling lazy tonight) ;)
[12:13] <linux_mafia> there even
[12:13] <jintonic> i did upgrade the kernel... could be that the one i got broke ac97 support :-/
[12:13] <jintonic> doesn't sound too likely tho
[12:14] <trey3> jintonic: unlikely... would have came up more via google (many people would have asked about it etc recently)
[12:15] <jintonic> hmm.. i guess i'll try a backup kernel just for the hell of it... see ya
[12:15] <linux_mafia> so, anyone planning to buy a mac mini? to run ubuntu ppc of course ;)
[12:15] <trey3> linux_mafia: wtf is a mac mini?  :o
[12:16] <trey3> linux_mafia: the headless mac everyones been talking about?
[12:16] <linux_mafia> trey3, yeah
[12:16] <tuxJr_14> hi
[12:16] <tuxJr_14> talking about mini mac?
[12:16] <linux_mafia> trey3, 6" wide, 6" deep, 2" high
[12:17] <trey3> linux_mafia: would if I could use my current monitor with it...
[12:18] <linux_mafia> trey3, why could you not?
[12:18] <jdub> it comes with a dvi-to-vga adapter
[12:18] <trey3> jdub: hmm... take that back then  :)
[12:19] <trey3> Might have to save up  8)
[12:21] <linux_mafia> i'd love one, but at $500 USD i bet it will be close to 8 or 900 NZD, still to dear for me, :(
[12:21] <jdub> AUD$799 for the base model
[12:23] <trey3> That or an Opteron... have to make that decision when I have the money  8)
[12:24] <trey3> linux_mafia: heh... just about to get my Assosiates... should really be looking harder  :)
[12:24] <linux_mafia> trey3, associates? whats that?
[12:25] <trey3> Still not decided whether I can afford another ~30 grand for Bachelors though...
[12:25] <trey3> linux_mafia: ahh... lowest level college degree  :)
[12:26] <trey3> assosiates > bachelors > masters > doctorate  :)
[12:26] <linux_mafia> trey3, does college == university?
[12:26] <trey3> linux_mafia: yes...
[12:27] <linux_mafia> trey3, ok, thought so, in new zealand college is for 13 to 17 year olds
[12:27] <trey3> linux_mafia: hah
[12:27] <trey3> linux_mafia: everywhere seems to call these things something different...
[12:28] <trey3> linux_mafia: college there is high school here... and secondary school in england  :)
[12:29] <linux_mafia> trey3, sh*t, base mac mini is $950 NZD, fsck that
[12:30] <trey3> linux_mafia: hah  :)
[12:30] <trey3> grr... whoever heard of an office suite that didn't have a spreadsheet app  :/
[12:31] <coulix> hi evryone i m under ubuntu my friend use windows and has a webcam, i dont have webcame but i would like to see him any idea?
[12:32] <pisuke> coulix, use gnomemeeting, you will be able to see him. but he won't see you :)
[12:32] <trey3> coulix: gnomemeeting... gaim-vv supposedly will let you via MSN and Yahoo etc.. but never actually tried it...
[12:32] <pisuke> some can't wait
[12:33] <trey3> pisuke: hah... for serious  :)
[12:33] <linux_mafia> trey3, ive been a chef since i was 18, (now 30) I just completed an IT diploma (2 yrs full time study), so I'm trying to get my first IT job, basically ive come to the realisation im probably going to have to start in  a helldesk job, not an exciting prospect
[12:33] <coulix> what should he used?
[12:34] <pisuke> netmeeting
[12:34] <pisuke> win netmeeting linux gnomemeeting
[12:34] <trey3> linux_mafia: yeah... most here is either hardware related (*shudder*) or helpdesk entry level... sucks
[12:34] <coulix> and i input an adress to call with gnomemeeting how do i get this adress
[12:35] <pisuke> you just need his ip
[12:35] <coulix> ok
[12:35] <pisuke> anyone can start
[12:35] <pisuke> you or hin
[12:35] <pisuke> you or him
[12:35] <coulix> he told me netmeeting does exist anymore its messenger now is it true?
[12:36] <linux_mafia> trey3, ive tried my hardest to get an OSS/*nix job, but most shops doing it are just to small to take on trainees, maybe i should go to australia, heh
[12:36] <pisuke> google a bit and you'll find netmeeting
[12:36] <coulix> ok
[12:36] <pisuke> msn uses another protocol
[12:36] <pisuke> for voip
[12:36] <coulix> ok
[12:37] <HrdwrBoB> linux_mafia: take as much as you can get of random stuff here and there
[12:37] <HrdwrBoB> get to know people
[12:37] <HrdwrBoB> contacts++
[12:38] <linux_mafia> HrdwrBoB, yeah well ive doing some little OSS jobs for myself, through friends, family, work related people, but not enough to earn a living, good for the cv
[12:38] <coulix> my cute ubuntu http://img153.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img153&image=screen7cn.png
[12:38] <linux_mafia> though
[12:40] <trey3> coulix: cool  :)
[12:40] <trey3> coulix: there is a thread @ ubuntuforums.org if you want to show it off though  ;)
[12:40] <pisuke> trey3, don't you thing we have enough with skype
[12:41] <pisuke> let's try to use h232 and sip
[12:41] <trey3> pisuke: skype is non-free last I checked? gaim-vv does incoming yahoo, and msn ...
[12:41] <coulix> yeah i have to post it there
[12:42] <pisuke> trey3, over nonfree protocols?
[12:42] <pisuke> last time I checked
[12:42] <coulix> itdoes msn without any pb
[12:42] <trey3> pisuke: non-free client... non-free code for protocol... not going on my system...
[12:44] <trey3> pisuke: all code within gaim/gaim-vv is utterly free...
[12:45] <pisuke> reverse engineered
[12:45] <trey3> pisuke: yes.
[12:45] <pisuke> wait till ms breaks it
[12:46] <pisuke> let's use sip
[12:46] <pisuke> please
[12:46] <trey3> pisuke: they'll just reverse engineer it again  :/
[12:46] <trey3> pisuke: AIM used to try to break compatibility regularly... fixed within days usually...
[12:46] <pisuke> not what I want
[12:47] <pisuke> but let's keep on topic
[12:47] <trey3> pisuke: its all well and good saying "lets use sip" or "lets use h232"... but you try telling non-tech savey people to install clients for it... and explain use...
[12:47] <trey3> especially when MSN and Yahoo already do it, and they know how that way...
[12:47] <t31> hi, someone knows the files in need to install mplayer please?
[12:48] <trey3> t31: you need 'w32codecs' and 'mplayer-386' at least...
[12:48] <PotajiTo> wenas
[12:49] <trey3> t31: see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[12:49] <trey3> PotajiTo: wenas to you too!!  :P
[12:49] <PotajiTo> hi xD
[12:49] <trey3> PotajiTo: whats up  :)
[12:52] <War_craftsteel> hi
[12:52] <trey3> War_craftsteel: hey
[12:52] <War_craftsteel> I have installed a new motherboard and now my x-server is not running anymore
[12:53] <War_craftsteel> can anybody help me
[12:53] <trey3> War_craftsteel: 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86', change driver  :)
[12:53] <trey3> War_craftsteel: if it doesn't ask, dpkg-reconfigure debconf and change to 'low'  ;)
[12:54] <trey3> War_craftsteel: but try restarting X first, because it should try to reprobe monitor even if it doesn't ask  :)
[12:54] <trey3> War_craftsteel: what kind of video card do you have now?
[12:55] <War_craftsteel> I have an older hercules Kyro, powervr 4500
[12:55] <trey3> Never heard of it... which is a good thing more than likely  :)
[12:55] <linux_mafia> damn, trying to show updates from the update-notifier notification applet, just crashed gnome
[12:56] <daniels> mjg59:
[12:56] <trey3> linux_mafia: 'apt-watch'?
[12:56] <daniels>    * Pull i8xx/i915 driver back from HEAD, as it contains numerous improvements
[12:56] <daniels>      from Tungsten -- i915GM support, PanelID support, and support for custom
[12:56] <daniels>      video modes in the video BIOS, eliminating the need for
[12:56] <daniels>      855wrap/855resolution/865patch, et al (closes: Ubuntu#2827).
[12:56] <daniels>      + Mesa 6.2.x branch, which will allow DRI around suspend/resume (also
[12:56] <daniels>        fixing random video bustage after suspend/resume) on i8xx, is pending,
[12:56] <daniels>        and will be in the next revision.
[12:56] <trey3> daniels: hey  :)
[12:56] <War_craftsteel> trey3: I have also tried to reconfigure my X-configuration via xf86config
[12:56] <mjg59> daniels: Rock. How long until that's built?
[12:57] <trey3> War_craftsteel: never really liked that tool  :(
[12:57] <raghu> hi all
[12:57] <daniels> mjg59: probably 3h to the archive, all told
[12:57] <trey3> War_craftsteel: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 uses discover1 to answer questions for you  :)
[12:57] <linux_mafia> trey3, its sort of an ubuntu version of apt-watch
[12:57] <raghu> i want to load module mod_proxy.so...how to?...is there any apt-get for that?
[12:58] <War_craftsteel> trey: ok thanks, Ill try and tell if it was working
[12:58] <trey3> linux_mafia: ahh... I've been looking for a GTK2 applet like that  :(
[12:58] <trey3> linux_mafia: looks like I've got a bit longer to wait though  ;)
[12:58] <linux_mafia> trey3, you on hoary?
[12:58] <trey3> linux_mafia: yeah
[12:58] <trey3> linux_mafia: well... not on... using  ;)
[12:59] <linux_mafia> trey3, fsck you, heh ;), the package is called update-notifier
[12:59] <zombics> i cant get my wheel to work :/ my mouse in Xfree86 look like this:     Identifier  "Mouse1"    Driver      "mouse"    Option "Protocol"    "PS/2"    Option "Device"      "/dev/psaux"    Option "Buttons" "7"    Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
[12:59] <trey3> linux_mafia: hahah  :)
[01:00] <trey3> linux_mafia: k... I will check it out  :)
[01:00] <daniels> mjg59: of note, that also contains the entire unichrome.sf.net via driver
[01:00] <coulix> it works perfectly
[01:00] <daniels> zombics: change "PS/2" to "ImPS/2"
[01:00] <daniels> zombics: how did you configure your X server?  no ubuntu tool will write a config file like that
[01:01] <zombics> daniels, the XF86config dint wrote anything so i had to config it myself
[01:03] <linux_mafia> trey3, on my net plan its a flat fee for 10GB a month at 2Mb/s then drops to dial up speed, ive used up all my allowance for this month, gotta wait for 10 more days for some speed, its killing me, too slow to update my hoary :(
[01:03] <daniels> zombics: how did that happen?
[01:03] <mjg59> daniels: I kiss you
[01:03] <daniels> zombics: every install should get an XF86Config-4, working or not
[01:03] <trey3> linux_mafia: ahh... my ISP has nothing like that... I'm lucky  8)
[01:04] <trey3> linux_mafia: get discount rate too, because my Step Dad works for them  :)
[01:04] <zombics> daniels, my dint work. so i used xf86config....
[01:04] <daniels> zombics: ah.
[01:04] <linux_mafia> trey3, broadband in new zealand is a joke
[01:04] <trey3> mjg59: PDA is off topic here  :P
[01:05] <zombics> how do i close my X in ubuntu? when i do itf from X serv it open the gdm
[01:05] <daniels> zombics: sudo invoke-rc.d gdm stop
[01:07] <zombics> daniels, still not working :O
[01:08] <daniels> zombics: dunno then
[01:09] <trey3> zombics: mv (your X config file) and dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86... let debconf figure it out...
[01:10] <stere0> zombics: /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[01:10] <trey3> stere0: invoke-rc.d is less characters  ;)
[01:10] <stere0> trey3: oh, i haven't read that ...
[01:11] <stere0> yes, it's shorter ;o)
[01:12] <daniels> trey3: um, you know that won't work, right
[01:12] <daniels> sudo sh -c 'md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum' && sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[01:17] <no0tic> raghu: I think mod_proxy.so isn't a kernel module...
[01:17] <Kamion> no0tic: apache module
[01:18] <no0tic> Kamion: :)
[01:18] <Kamion> raghu: it's part of the basic apache2 packages; no need to install anything more than that
[01:19] <Kamion> raghu: try 'a2enmod proxy'
[01:19] <polli> Hey, is anyone experiencing problems with X in hoary?
[01:19] <herman_> Kamion, is mod_proxy comparable with squid?
[01:19] <herman_> polli, works fine for me on multiple machines
[01:19] <Kamion> herman_: no idea
[01:20] <polli> herman_: any laptops?
[01:20] <herman_> polli, yup
[01:20] <no0tic> #peori
[01:20] <Kamion> herman_: but I'm fairly sure it has an entirely different purpose; check the documentation on the apache web site
[01:21] <polli> hmmm.. weird, it lloks lite the screen is divided into three parts
[01:21] <polli> looks like
[01:21] <herman_> Kamion, ok, just wondering because squid seems almost unmaintained and is lacking in modern stuff (ipv6, latest http specification etc)
[01:22] <herman_> polli, which driver are you using?
[01:22] <grepper> does gnome have a native xclipboard tool like kde's klipper ?
[01:27] <HostingGeek> SuSE_UsER <<< convret him
[01:28] <i386> SuSE_UsER you know you want it
[01:28] <linuxboy> i think its unfair to ban a user of a different distro
[01:28] <linuxboy> unless they cause crap
[01:28] <i386> hot, raw, bareback ubuntu action
[01:29] <linuxboy> lol, HostingGeek
[01:29] <HostingGeek> lol
[01:29] <linuxboy> thats funny
[01:29] <linuxboy> i nrealy fell for it
[01:30] <gen> idiot
[01:30] <daniels> is there anything on-topic?
[01:36] <asdf_> is there any way to install gnome/ubuntu-desktop even though there are broken dependencies?
[01:36] <Kamion> asdf_: start aptitude, go to tasks and drill down 'til you get to ubuntu-desktop, press +, ignore broken stuff
[01:37] <Kamion> that should get you most of it
[01:37] <Kamion> but there's no clean way to ignore broken dependencies, no
[01:37] <asdf_> hrmm ok thanks
[01:37] <asdf_> do you think itll be fixed anytime soon?
[01:37] <asdf_> it seemed to be working yesterday
[01:38] <asdf_> waited until today to download it all and now its all broken hehe
[01:38] <Kamion> seems to be a lot of breakage at the moment according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/hoary_probs.html; seb's still working on integrating GNOME 2.9.4
[01:38] <Kamion> assuming you mean hoary
[01:39] <asdf_> yeah
[01:40] <asdf_> is 2.9.4 a stable release?
[01:40] <asdf_> i thought 2.8 was the latest
[01:40] <Kamion> hoary tracks development GNOME
[01:40] <HostingGeek> asdf_: no
[01:41] <topyli> asdf_: it's unstable: note the 9
[01:41] <topyli> like linux versions
[01:41] <HostingGeek> but comparded to windows its way past stable
[01:41] <asdf_> gnomes always been really unstable for me
[01:41] <topyli> HostingGeek: yeah. but it's unstable like debian unstable: it changes
[01:41] <asdf_> compared to xp
[01:41] <asdf_> not the core gnome but applets etc
[01:42] <asdf_> and stuff that comes with it
[01:42] <topyli> asdf_: what's an xp applet? ;)
[01:42] <HostingGeek> topyli: yes thats why i voted for the name changes please do not call it debian unstable any more
[01:42] <asdf_> heheh true
[01:42] <Kamion> yeees, that "vote" was pretty pointless
[01:43] <HostingGeek> Kamion: don't talk like that
[01:43] <topyli> HostingGeek: people do misunderstand debian stability sometimes
[01:43] <HostingGeek> Nominus: ipv6 is sooooo coool
[01:44] <Nominus> ))
[01:44] <HostingGeek> topyli: thats why i voted for the change
[01:44] <topyli> i vote for changing people ;)
[01:44] <asdf_> if you mean me, i understand how it works
[01:44] <HostingGeek> Nominus: ok i think we have a bit of a stuff up the the ipv6 > ipv4
[01:44] <asdf_> unstable just means new
[01:45] <HostingGeek> Nominus: that was not english
[01:45] <asdf_> and testing means its been tested for a while and seems to work for most people
[01:45] <Kamion> no, it really does mean unstable, in packaging structure terms
[01:45] <HostingGeek> yes
[01:45] <asdf_> yeah but it doesnt actually mean its unstable
[01:45] <HostingGeek> once a package has had no bugs for 14 days it goes into testing
[01:45] <Kamion> not true
[01:45] <Nominus> HostingGeek: hm... there'ra many ipv6 tunnel brokers offering ipv6 over ipv4 tunnels for free
[01:45] <HostingGeek> Kamion: yes it is
[01:45] <topyli> asdf_: unstable works for most people too (those who use it)
[01:46] <Kamion> HostingGeek: I co-administer the testing distribution, I know how it works
[01:46] <HostingGeek> no0tic: OMG thats english
[01:46] <HostingGeek> Kamion: then update the wiki to say diffrent
[01:46] <topyli> asdf_: testing is actually the worst debian to use
[01:46] <Kamion> what wiki?
[01:46] <asdf_> how so?
[01:46] <HostingGeek> as debian.net says that
[01:46] <Kamion> the official documentation is http://www.debian.org/devel/testing, not some wiki
[01:46] <HostingGeek> debian.net == wiki
[01:47] <asdf_> because it takes longer for fixes to get added?
[01:47] <Kamion> HostingGeek: http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?DebianTesting doesn't say what you claim it says
[01:47] <topyli> asdf_: yes. it's not meant for users at all
[01:48] <Fly_80> hi all
[01:48] <asdf_> is unstable meant for users?
[01:48] <asdf_> hi
[01:48] <Fly_80> i installed ubuntu yesterday and i have a little question
[01:49] <topyli> asdf_: dunno. it's used a lot and we want it to be usable
[01:49] <Fly_80> i noticed that acpi_button does'nt work when i close the system
[01:49] <mjg59> Fly_80: What do you mean?
[01:49] <Fly_80> i get Power Off
[01:49] <Fly_80> than acpi_button called
[01:50] <Fly_80> *then
[01:50] <Fly_80> but the system doesn't close himself
[01:50] <mjg59> Fly_80: Are you sure it's not acpi_power_off called?
[01:50] <Fly_80> eh yes
[01:50] <Fly_80> is that
[01:50] <mjg59> And you installed Warty? (the stable release)
[01:50] <Fly_80> yes
[01:51] <Fly_80> i installed the warty release for amd64
[01:51] <mjg59> Ok, it's due to a kernel bug
[01:51] <mjg59> It ought to be fixed in the next release
[01:52] <asdf_> does anyone know why my prism wireless card isnt getting initialised properly during boot?
[01:52] <asdf_> but when i do ifup eth0 after its booted, it works ok
[01:52] <Fly_80> uhm, another question : how does it work the kernel update ? i just download the image or i can compiling bu my own ? ?
[01:52] <Fly_80> *by
[01:52] <asdf_> there are kernel packages
[01:53] <Fly_80> in synaptic ?
[01:53] <asdf_> yeah
[01:53] <asdf_> kernel-image-2.6-amd64-generic - Linux kernel image for version 2.6 on generic x86_64 systems
[01:53] <asdf_> kernel-image-2.6-amd64-k8 - Linux kernel image for version 2.6 on AMD64 systems
[01:53] <asdf_> kernel-image-2.6-amd64-k8-smp - Linux kernel image for version 2.6 on AMD64 SMP systems
[01:53] <asdf_> for example
[01:54] <odo> yay, finally got my Ubuntu CD's via snailmail :)
[01:54] <Fly_80> uhm is it linux-image-*
[01:54] <Fly_80> not kernel-image
[01:54] <mjg59> Fly_80: linux-image, yes
[01:54] <dud> this might be a bit of a silly question... but a windows friend of mine was up all night defragmenting his harddrive... and so he asked me if defragmentation was an issue in linux...
[01:55] <dud> to be honest ive never thought about it
[01:55] <dud> does anyone know?
[01:55] <Fly_80> so if i want to update my kernel , i just install it from synaptic
[01:55] <i386> dud, no
[01:55] <mjg59> Fly_80: Yes
[01:55] <Kamion> dud: Unix filesystems normally take care of that for themselves
[01:55] <dud> one should think that files will be defragmented...
[01:55] <dud> as thats sort of the nature of harddrives
[01:55] <i386> Journaling filesystems usually solve that dud
[01:55] <Fly_80> mjg59, but i have to modify the menu.lst for grub or is automatic too ?
[01:55] <Kamion> yeah, but it's the filesystem's responsibility to take care of that, not the user's
[01:55] <dud> does fsck take care of it automatically?
[01:55] <i386> or so Ive been told
[01:55] <asdf_> Fly_80: automatic
[01:55] <Kamion> i386: even ext2 handles defragmentation; it's not journalling
[01:56] <Fly_80> uhm, good :)
[01:56] <Kamion> it's not fsck, it's the filesystem code in the kernel itself
[01:56] <dud> file systems are very interesting indeed
[01:56] <Fly_80> thanks
[01:56] <i386> Kamion, Well I got it wrong :)
[01:56] <asdf_> you can quite easily build your own kernel packages from source
[01:56] <dud> Kamion, ok, good to know
[01:56] <i386> dud, I like XFS
[01:56] <i386> its great for huge and really small files
[01:56] <i386> performance wise
[01:56] <i386> and the recovery tools are really well tested
[01:56] <dud> i prefer just to play it safe and stick to ext3 or ext2 depending on the nature of the file usage
[01:57] <mjg59> asdf_: You /can/, but you miss out on the Ubuntu-specific patches
[01:57] <dud> with heavy frequent read/write of medium to small files i prefer ext3 (eg webserver)
[01:57] <asdf_> theres a package for them i seem to remember seeing
[01:57] <asdf_> what kinda patches come applied to the ubuntu kernels out of interest?
[01:58] <dud> but for larger concurrent read/writes i stick to good ol ext2 (eg capturing and movie/music processing)
[01:59] <mjg59> asdf_: Ubdated acpi, some driver fixes, support for some architectures that don't work by default, extra drivers, inotify, various suspend/resume fixes, a few other bits and bobs
[01:59] <asdf_> cool
[01:59] <mjg59> (That's the Hoary kernel, which is what I have handy)
[02:05] <HostingGeek> daniels: no UBUNTU IS OFFTOPIC in #debian
[02:05] <HostingGeek> feel free to talk about debian in #ubuntu-offtopic people
[02:06] <srid> ubuntu package for this http://micke.hallendal.net/gnome-launch-box/ anyone?
[02:09] <HostingGeek> google NOES all
[02:09] <HostingGeek> including ubuntu...
[02:11] <HostingGeek> srid: what does it do
[02:12] <polli> herman_: ati as it seems
[02:13] <srid> HostingGeek, launch apps
[02:13] <polli> herman_: and it work without a problem in hoary
[02:13] <HostingGeek> srid: the terminal can even do that
[02:13] <srid> HostingGeek, this is for n00bs :)
[02:14] <polli> herman_: woary that is :)
[02:14] <srid> it's eyecandy too
[02:14] <HostingGeek> srid: so gnome-menu can do it better than this
[02:14] <HostingGeek> did someone say candy
[02:15] <srid> not all apps are put under gnome-menu
[02:18] <i386> helios, !
[02:18] <i386> :)
[02:18] <linux_mafia> what the hell is that launch box thing, looks kinda like a gdesklet launch thingy
[02:18] <helios> i386
[02:18] <i386> guess who :)
[02:18] <helios> a lesser version of the i686 kernel :P
[02:18] <i386> ...no
[02:19] <helios> i know who you are
[02:19] <i386> Ill explain what it means one day
[02:19] <helios> what?
[02:19] <i386> when I dont have to sleep (ie got time?)
[02:19] <helios> lol
[02:19] <helios> i know i left my terminal here somewhere...
[02:21] <helios> is there anyone here that can help me get fglrx working properly?
[02:22] <i386> helios problem is that he owns a Radeon 9600
[02:23] <i386> and needs 3D graphics working
[02:23] <i386> except he is newbular
[02:23] <helios> i need to get dri working on xfree
[02:24] <helios> damn john for stealing ciggies
[02:24] <crimsun_> helios: have you followed the instructions on the BinaryDriverHowto?
[02:25] <tritium> In a recent update, the Network Monitor applet lost it's ability to determine the active network interface.  Now it just defaults to whichever interface was used last.
[02:25] <tritium> And the Inbox Monitor and Wireless applet are gone.
[02:26] <helios> ????
[02:26] <helios> where be that crimsun?
[02:26] <crimsun> helios: have you read the instructions for fglrx here? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto
[02:26] <helios> already found it
[02:28] <helios> thanks crimsun
[02:28] <helios> doing now
[02:28] <helios> will keep apprised of situation
[02:29] <darmou> Is anyone using codeweavers plugins?
[02:29] <crimsun> darmou: long ago, yes.
[02:29] <Guardiann> hey darmou
[02:30] <darmou> For some reason I can't get quicktime sound to work with ubuntu
[02:30] <Guardiann> I am using code weavers
[02:31] <darmou> Guardiann so you have no sound issues?
[02:32] <Guardiann> i am only using it to run ie
[02:33] <helios> bbs guys... need to restart to see if the settings worked
[02:33] <no0tic> re
[02:37] <darmou> r u using the mplayer plugin for quicktime then?  I can't seem to get the mplayer working for quicktime only win media player
[02:38] <helios> thanks crimsun for your help, and i386
[02:39] <Linforcer> Yeah, erm just installed my new nifty ubuntu and both rhythmbox and totem refuse to play mp3 files... rhythmbox says " no plugin for... "  and Totem says [failed to open;unknown reason] , do I need mp3 codecs or something, if so how? if anyonw can help me, please do, if not... well, sucks to be me
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> you need gstreamer-mad
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> from universe
[02:39] <Linforcer> I see
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> enable universe in synaptic
[02:39] <Linforcer> I did
[02:40] <Linforcer> :)
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> and get the gstreamer-mad package
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> good :)
[02:40] <Linforcer> I tried to get gstreamer 09
[02:40] <Linforcer> like in the beginners guide
[02:40] <Linforcer> I take it its obsolete
[02:40] <Linforcer> ?
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> 09?
[02:40] <Linforcer> 08*
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> which guide is this
[02:40] <Linforcer> http://ubuntuguide.org/
[02:41] <Linforcer> Q: how to install multimedia codecs?
[02:41] <Linforcer> A:
[02:41] <Linforcer>  $ sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.8-plugins
[02:41] <Linforcer> $ sudo apt-get install w32codecs
[02:41] <HrdwrBoB> yes that should do it
[02:42] <dud> gstreamer0.8-plugins is a meta-package isnt it?
[02:42] <Linforcer> ah yes it works now
[02:42] <Linforcer> wonder what I did wrong before
[02:42] <Linforcer> :S
[02:42] <HrdwrBoB> dud: yes
[02:42] <Linforcer> By the way,
[02:42] <dud> thought so :)
[02:43] <Linforcer> how do I install downloaded .deb packages (if possible)
[02:43] <helios> dpkg
[02:43] <Linforcer> aaaah
[02:43] <Linforcer> thanks
[02:43] <Linforcer> :)
[02:43] <helios> dpkg -i
[02:43] <Linforcer> yeah I figured
[02:43] <helios> -i will install it
[02:44] <Linforcer> and else I would have man'd it
[02:44] <dud> argh, it should be tuesday tomorrow ;/
[02:44] <dud> ill be bying a pc upgrade on tuesday... cant wait
[02:44] <Linforcer> hm
[02:44] <Linforcer> coulnt find package w32codecs
[02:44] <Linforcer> Any clue here someone?
[02:45] <helios> sudo
[02:45] <dud> amd athlon64 3000+ and a new mother board
[02:45] <Linforcer> I did
[02:45] <dud> cant wait to get rid of this crap assed celeron
[02:45] <helios> where did you download the file to?
[02:45] <Linforcer> Oh, no I'm trying to find the package with apt-get not install it from disk
[02:45] <crimsun> Linforcer: you need 'w32codecs' from the marillat repository
[02:46] <crimsun> Linforcer: make sure you have that repo enabled; follow the directions on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[02:46] <Linforcer> :S... I... see
[02:47] <dud> i thought marillat wasnt working as of lately...?
[02:48] <dud> btw, whats the legal status for dvd ripping and similar in the usa?
[02:48] <dud> has it really been tried for a court yet?
[02:48] <nevyn> so we're going to hell. we bought a peripheral for a single game.
[02:49] <nevyn> 2 player dance mat.
[02:49] <dud> its legal to backup dvds and any other media that you wish to back up for personal use in norway and scandinavia in general i believe
[02:49] <nevyn> and australia.
[02:49] <HrdwrBoB> nevyn: where does it say that
[02:49] <dud> afaik, even torrents are legal in norway
[02:50] <dud> it hasnt been tried in court, but we have fairly nice copyright laws here
[02:50] <nevyn> HrdwrBoB: it's like.. thou shalt not buy a peripheral for a single game.
[02:50] <HrdwrBoB> I meant copy dvds for backup
[02:50] <nevyn> HrdwrBoB: there's no fair use right in australia.
[02:50] <HrdwrBoB> nevyn: even if it's cheap?
[02:51] <HrdwrBoB> nevyn: I bought a whole PS2 to play GTA:SA
[02:51] <nevyn> you need the copyright owners permission to make a copy
[02:51] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[02:51] <HrdwrBoB> exactly
[02:51] <HrdwrBoB> so it's *not* legal
[02:51] <HostingGeek> oh ow i see them coming
[02:51] <nevyn> we're gonna buy one for singstar
[02:51] <nevyn> HrdwrBoB: $55 for a 2 player mat
[02:51] <dud> its so nice to live in scandinavia hehe
[02:51] <dud> i almost feel guilty :o
[02:51] <nevyn> EB was getting rid of them
[03:34] (Cloudchaser/#ubuntu) does anyone have any ideas what i can do? i can see the shares and their dirs at comman line, but not in any file browser
[03:34] (herman_/#ubuntu) polli, can you paste me the url of the bugreport when you finished it. i'm curious:)
[03:34] (da_bon_bon/#ubuntu) siulca: go on..
[03:34] (Linforcer/#ubuntu) Say, erm... that nifty graphicky thing for Grub that SuSE (and NLD) has, is there a way to get that for ubuntu?
[03:36] <siulca> da_bon_bon, yep done it
[03:36] <da_bon_bon> siulca: should have used rafb.net/paste
[03:37] <kent> Linforcer, i dont use suse, but there is one in next Ubuntu (Hoary). its from gnome system tools. Dont know if it existed in Warty or not.
[03:37] <siulca> da_bon_bon, er, sorry... I'm still learning as you can tell.
[03:37] <Linforcer> Thanks kent.
[03:37] <da_bon_bon> siulca: no problemo
[03:37] <Linforcer> (Do you people know EVERYTHING?)
[03:38] <da_bon_bon> Linforcer: not necessarily ;)
[03:38] <Linforcer> Sure seems like it.
[03:38] <egli> seems like it. I had an answer within a second
[03:38] <Linforcer> What's the answer to life the universe and everything?
[03:38] <dud> 42
[03:38] <egli> hehe, 42
[03:38] <Linforcer> Yeah
[03:39] <Linforcer> I knew you'd say that.
[03:39] <HostingGeek> is it just me or is sftp:// in natulus SUPER slow
[03:39] <dud> that geek knowledge 101
[03:39] <dud> s/that/that's
[03:39] <Linforcer> Yeah... and I ahven't even read it.
[03:39] <Linforcer> haven't*\
[03:39] <HostingGeek> its said perprting to copy for a few mins now
[03:39] <cetanhota> how do I force alsa to save my mixer settings? everytime I reboot my levels go back to 0
[03:40] <HostingGeek> and its not my server's end
[03:40] <dud> cetanhota, alsactl store
[03:40] <cetanhota> dud, thanks
[03:41] <dud> just put alsactl restore in a start up script
[03:41] <kent> HostingGeek, to copy files over sftp:// in nautilus is slow for me aswell, but it must have to do with that its run over ssh? compare the speeds with a simple copy with sftp from the commandline?
[03:41] <dud> read this months linux magazine for more on sound in linux btw cetanhota ;)
[03:41] <HostingGeek> kent: in ssh it super fast 0.001seconds
[03:41] <cetanhota> dud, I am coming from RedHat, I know where to put that in RH, but what is the name of the startup script in ubuntu
[03:42] <HostingGeek> init.d
[03:42] <kent> you meen, when copying with sftp on the commandline?
[03:42] <dud> yeah, HostingGeek beat me to it heh
[03:42] <cetanhota> thank you HostingGeek!
[03:42] <HostingGeek> shess its init.d in every distro beside red hat because red hat want to gay
[03:42] <HostingGeek> watch my lang
[03:42] <dud> redhat likes it up the arse :O
[03:43] <cetanhota> I dont want to bash distros. I have to use Red Hat at the office.
[03:43] <dud> and now, they even want to get paid for it hehe
[03:43] <HostingGeek> kent: with ssh
[03:44] <dud> slackware is a bit special about startup scripts as well
[03:44] <dud> using the SystemV style and all
[03:44] <kent> last night I had a dream about Ubuntu using some kind of splash-bootup thing. It was semi-graphical. The text still came up on the screen, but it was on the background of pictures of the developers..   haha, very strange dream. But it impressed my friends in the dream ;)
[03:44] <dud> haha, how geeky :D
[03:45] <dud> you should get a tux plush animal to cuddle while you dream about linux
[03:46] <HostingGeek> kent: 0_o
[03:47] <Linforcer> xD
[03:47] <kent> HostingGeek, btw, have you tried copying with gftp? if you want to use graphical tools instead of the commandline, then gftp also handles sftp.
[03:48] <HostingGeek> kent: no i was just testing it out
[03:49] <Linforcer> Erm... I was just wondering... when I want to run a bin... I sue ./ at times, I know this... but what does ./ REALLY MEAN? What does this tell my system?
[03:49] <Linforcer> use*
[03:49] <Cloudchaser> is something wrong with nautilus and its file manager in ubuntu? i don't remember having same issues on redhat as i do in ubuntu
[03:50] <tritium> Cloudchaser, what kind of issues?
[03:50] <Cloudchaser> mostly to do with samba/smbmount
[03:50] <wu_ming> does ubuntu comes with another window manager like twm (something light)
[03:50] <Cloudchaser> right now i can't get to my shares at all via file manager
[03:50] <kent> Linforcer, that you change the identety of the user to the administrator instead of a normal user. that way you can change stuff that you could not do as a user.
[03:50] <Cloudchaser> but i can open a doc from a share in OO and at command line
[03:50] <Linforcer> but...
[03:50] <Cloudchaser> file manager says i can't mount the share
[03:50] <Linforcer> oh wait...
[03:50] <Linforcer> sudo just opens the file as su
[03:51] <dud> i know nautilus has been known to be occationally borked in hoary
[03:51] <Linforcer> and ./ runs every command in it as su
[03:51] <Linforcer> right?
[03:51] <Cloudchaser> i'm using warty
[03:51] <kent> Linforcer, oh, you mean "the ./" thing?  its becaus the current directory is not in $PATH, so you have to realy tell the system the thing you want to run is in the current directory
[03:51] <Linforcer> :S
[03:51] <Linforcer> oh
[03:51] <Linforcer> ok
[03:51] <Linforcer> xD
[03:51] <dud> . is representive of the current directory, and / is just a seperator of sorts
[03:52] <dud> in layman terms...
[03:52] <Linforcer> Cool. Thanks.
[03:52] <kent> Linforcer, so the "./" is only to tell the system that the program to run is in the current command, it can be done as a normal user aswell. For example, if you write your own script/program and have it in /home/user/  then you change to that directory and run it with ./myprogram.se
[03:52] <dud> also ,, means parent directory
[03:52] <tritium> Cloudchaser, windows or samba servers?
[03:52] <dud> .. even
[03:53] <Linforcer> I see. :)
[03:53] <HostingGeek> OMG ubuntu on /.
[03:53] <HostingGeek> ohh wait
[03:53] <HostingGeek> sry it was just a comment
[03:53] <Cloudchaser> this ubuntu laptop is samba server..the shares i'm accessing are windows shares
[03:53] <dud> heh, /. is so cool
[03:53] <tritium> Cloudchaser, where are the share?
[03:53] <tritium> shares?
[03:53] <dud> if i had to choose between /, and my girlfriend it have some serious trouble heh
[03:53] <HostingGeek> dud: you will think that
[03:54] <Cloudchaser> samba seems to be working fine as are smbmount, just not with file manager or network browser. the shares are on my network.
[03:54] <HostingGeek> dud: i'll have both at the same time
[03:54] <dud> s/it/i'd
[03:54] <da_bon_bon> HostingGeek: hiya, hows the hosting running ? the 99 char. password still in placE ?
[03:54] <dud> too bad you aint getting my girlfriend then HostingGeek  hehe
[03:54] <HostingGeek> da_bon_bon: yes my site is going up NOW
[03:54] <wu_ming> anyone know how to switch from gnome to twm?
[03:54] <dud> guess im not the only one with a dedicated server here then :O
[03:55] <da_bon_bon> HostingGeek: whats its address ? do u use ubuntu for hosting it ?
[03:55] <dud> wu_ming, install twm and setup xstart to start that instead of gnome...?
[03:55] <Guardiann> dud what kinda server you running
[03:56] <wu_ming> whats xtart?
[03:56] <HostingGeek> da_bon_bon: no debian it just started rexolving now its vhcshosting.com the hosting is free
[03:56] <dud> Guardiann, a nice 2,8Gz freebsd server
[03:56] <dud> located in a NOC in texas
[03:57] <dud> dudcore.net for the interested...
[03:57] <Guardiann> i see mine is pretty puny then but i am just seeing how long linux can keep it up
[03:58] <dud> its a professional dedicated server... it comes with a pretty decent montly pricetag hehe
[03:58] <tritium> Cloudchaser, did you try DOMAIN
[03:59] <tritium> hold on
[03:59] <Cloudchaser> ?
[03:59] <dud> but basically i havent really put a lot of work into getting customers... i just like having a hosting company, and few customers
[03:59] <dud> not planning to be the next verio hehe
[03:59] <Guardiann> yet anyway :)
[04:00] <tritium> Sometimes you have to put your domain\username together in the same place to authenticate.
[04:00] <dud> the most popular part of my server is mirror.dudcore.net
[04:00] <dud> which is a free ftp mirror service :)
[04:01] <Cloudchaser> Tritium i'm not sure i follow..the drives are mounted and accessible in command line and in open office...
[04:01] <tritium> I understand.
[04:01] <Cloudchaser> but file manager isn't getting the message
[04:01] <Cloudchaser> does nautilus have other settings i need to set?
[04:02] <tritium> But sometimes you have to use domain\login as your username to authenticate.  A good example of this is evolution-exchange with Exchange 2003 servers.
[04:02] <dud> imho nautilus isnt exactly the strongest side of gnome...
[04:02] <LooKER> hi
[04:02] <dud> hello there sailor
[04:02] <LooKER> do u know if it's possible to sync evolution mail with pocketpc
[04:03] <dud> no idea heh
[04:03] <dud> evolution uses mbox storage format doesnt it?
[04:03] <Cloudchaser> it doesn't prompt me for a log on, and when i go to Computer/Disks/Share and dc it...it says "Unable to mount the selected volume, cannot mount on /mnt/cloudg: Operation not permitted
[04:03] <Cloudchaser> smbmnt failed: 1
[04:04] <Cloudchaser> and as i said, the volume is already mounted and it was all working fine a few days ago
[04:04] <gangalino> what happens when Evolution's postfix times out to other MX connections? does it retry it? how do you get it to try again?
[04:04] <tritium> Cloudchaser, dunno, then.
[04:05] <Cloudchaser> k thanks tritium
[04:06] <lamont> gangalino: I'm assuming that you mean the postfix that evolution handed the mail to, yes?
[04:07] <lamont> postfix will keep trying to deliver the mail for 5days, iirc, before bouncing it as undeliverable
[04:07] <lamont> yeah, 5days
[04:08] <Petaris> What can you use to play .mov (quicktime) files in ubuntu
[04:08] <Petaris> as I don't see mplayer listed
[04:09] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: xine works fine for me
[04:09] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: is there some reason why I can't get it to work in firefox (as in launch)
[04:10] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: ohh. you want it in browser ?
[04:10] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: yeah, like mplayer-plugin
[04:10] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: oh.. then i dunno..
[04:11] <da_bon_bon> mozilla-xine works fine for me
[04:11] <Petaris> is that a plugin?
[04:12] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: yes.
[04:12] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: I just searched synaptic but it didn't come up
[04:13] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: google it - there is a plugin.
[04:13] <Petaris> xine is installed, and firefox is installed
[04:13] <Petaris> ahhh
[04:13] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/
[04:14] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: i am sorry they are RPMs
[04:14] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: perhaps use alien ?
[04:15] <gangalino> lamont: yes
[04:15] <tritium> mplayer is in multiverse
[04:15] <tritium> and also in Marillat repository
[04:16] <lamont> tritium: the mplayer in warty/multiverse is kinda useless for most people.
[04:16] <lamont> hoary's works much better.
[04:16] <lamont> or grab source for warty's and build it locally should work
[04:16] <lamont> (binaries should work on p4 machines..)
[04:17] <leno> hey i just received some ubuntu live cd's and they don't work
[04:17] <leno> anybody know of this problem?
[04:17] <deception_uk> hi all, having a bit of trouble with the wiki kernel guide, can anyone help please?
[04:17] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: I found it in synaptics
[04:18] <Cloudchaser> tritium, i found the issue and found a way to fix it
[04:18] <Cloudchaser> at least sort of fix it
[04:18] <tritium> Cloudchaser, what was the issue?
[04:18] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: hope it works..
[04:18] <Cloudchaser> it looks like my gencache.tdb file was corrupted
[04:18] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: thanks
[04:19] <Cloudchaser> so i renamed it and deleted it
[04:19] <tritium> Cloudchaser, oh.  Where is that stored?
[04:19] <Cloudchaser> and then it seemed to be working at least partially
[04:19] <Cloudchaser> one more share is showing up on desktop and is viewable...the file is /var/run/samba/gencache.tdb
[04:20] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: does it work ? i will get it too if it does.
[04:20] <tritium> I see
[04:20] <Cloudchaser> i read the log msgs for smbmount and it had an error with that file, i cat'd it and it looked like  mostly garbagte
[04:20] <tritium> oh
[04:21] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: still downloading
[04:21] <Cloudchaser> still have one share not showing up but i don't need that one at the moment...if it keeps happening then there's some sort of issue going on
[04:24] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: are u getting xine or the plugin ?
[04:24] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: and can u tell me the exact name of the plugin u r getting ?
[04:26] <l4xxor> Hi, i installed ubuntu and jet i have a question . where is my root password ? i didnt had the chance to configure it while the setup. is it a default password ?
[04:26] <tritium> Cloudchaser, this is what I was looking for earlier for you: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/windowsnet2003/view?searchterm=samba
[04:26] <jdub> l4xxor: www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[04:26] <dud> l4xxor, you need to enable the root account
[04:26] <tritium> not that it's much help
[04:26] <l4xxor> aha thx
[04:26] <dud> with sudo passwd root
[04:26] <jdub> l4xxor: don't bother enabling the root account
[04:26] <jdub> l4xxor: the way it works by default is much better :)
[04:27] <l4xxor> jdub but i need the PW to install progs etc.
[04:27] <Cloudchaser> ah i can try that tritium
[04:27] <jdub> l4xxor: nup, read the page above
[04:27] <jdub> l4xxor: you don't need a root password
[04:27] <Kamion> l4xxor: it's asking for your password, not the root password
[04:27] <dud> you can use sudo to gain root priveles
[04:27] <jdub> l4xxor: with sudo, and your first user, you enter your own password
[04:27] <tritium> Cloudchaser, I hope it works...
[04:28] <Cloudchaser> well the file i removed seemed to fix half my problem
[04:28] <Cloudchaser> one share is now acessible in the file browser
[04:28] <Cloudchaser> the other one isn't
[04:29] <tritium> I'm noticing that I when I browse the network, not all the domains are showing up.
[04:30] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: gxineplugin
[04:30] <Cloudchaser> maybe hoary has seen some work done on the issues? i've read many bugs with nautilus and network browsing
[04:30] <tritium> could be
[04:32] <da_bon_bon> Petaris: ok..
[04:35] <Petaris> da_bon_bon: it keeps failing to start the xine engine for me
[04:37] <Cloudchaser> hmm i'm getting var/mail msg about samba segaulting
[04:37] <wastrel> so i'm dual booting for the first time, is it customary to give both OS's the same hostname or do they get unique hostnames
[04:38] <tritium> I'm confused about my own smb configuration.  I manually ran dpkg-reconfigure samba-common, since I couldn't find any other way to specify my workgroup.
[04:38] <Cloudchaser> i did it in the smb config file
[04:38] <Cloudchaser> and also in the network settings for windows networking
[04:39] <tritium> Cloudchaser, you mean in "Desktop->Administration->Networking"?
[04:39] <tritium> on the "General" tab?
[04:39] <tritium> I don't have a samba server, so I don't have any windows networking settings
[04:39] <tritium> I only have samba-common and smbclient and some libraries
[04:39] <tritium> I don't want to run a server
[04:40] <Cloudchaser> ah
[04:40] <Cloudchaser> so where's your samba server?
[04:40] <tritium> I just want to browse the local network.
[04:40] <tritium> the samba server is on the network
[04:40] <tritium> there are several
[04:40] <Cloudchaser> i think from what i read smbmount or smb or something uses the conf file
[04:41] <Cloudchaser> so if you put it in the samba conf file that should do the trick
[04:41] <Cloudchaser> but i also did it in computer/system configuration/networking
[04:41] <tritium> dpkg -S /etc/samba/smb.conf reveals that it doesn't belong to a package.
[04:41] <tritium> Cloudchaser, you're using Warty?
[04:41] <Cloudchaser> no
[04:41] <Cloudchaser> yes
[04:42] <Cloudchaser> i'm using warty ;) sorry
[04:42] <tritium> no problem
[04:42] <kent> On Ubuntu Hoary the system uses UTF as default, now i got some of my music archive renamed to for example "blaha (bad encode)" or something. Not sure of the words, but hopefully you understand me. Is there som way to change those files automatic so i dont have to change the names manually in gnome?
[04:42] <tritium> It seems strange that the only way to set my domain would be from the command-line.
[04:42] <tritium> using dpkg-reconfigure samba-common
[04:45] <Kamion> kent: that's only when you change your locale as well - Tollef's working on a migration tool though
[04:46] <tritium> anyone know what /etc/samba/smb.conf looks like if you don't have samba installed, and didn't run "dpkg-reonfigure samba-common"?
[04:46] <tritium> I have a feeling it shouldn't even exist in that case.
[04:46] <kent> Kamion, I've read something about that on the homepage i think..  will it be ready for Hoary?
[04:47] <madness1982> Hi... Can anyone tell me how to set the java path? wich file to add the path...
[04:47] <Kamion> kent: it's a hoary goal
[04:47] <Cloudchaser> dunno but my samba's messing up..restarting it fails to restart it
[04:47] <Kamion> kent: (so it had better be ...)
[04:49] <Cloudchaser> brb going to restart
[04:49] <kent> Kamion, i must say that im impressed by the way Ubuntu handles these things. I had the same problems before on Fedora, and i never thought of that the distribution could make a program that atleast tries to deal with it. And for example, even though Ubuntu dont come with mp3-plugins etc,  atleast you have done it very easy to install for us who realy wants it.
[04:49] <Kamion> it can't deal with it totally automatically, it'll have to be something each user runs
[04:50] <Kamion> there's a page on the wiki with plans
[04:52] <kent> one strange thing though. dpkg tell me i have gaim 1.1.1-2ubuntu3 installed. But the about-window in gaim tells me i have 1.1.0    Isn't that kind of strange?
[04:52] <tritium> This can't be right: http://ubuntuguide.org/#changecomputerdomainworkgroup
[04:52] <kent> oh, sorry, my fault :(  i had compiled gaim before. so it runs the gaim in /usr/local/ *grr*
[04:52] <tritium> You don't have to install a Samba _server_ to browse a windows network.
[04:53] <tritium> or to change your domain or workgroup
[05:00] <fly_> hi all
[05:01] <fly_> i just update my kernel image , but now X doesn't start...maybe i have to reinstall the nvidia drivers ?
[05:02] <fly_> is there anybody ?
[05:03] <fly_> from command line i have to do something like : sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx ? or not ?
[05:04] <linuxboy> fly_: my guess... yes. But im not100% sure and i dont have a nvidia card
[05:06] <dud> doesnt there exist a gnome applet much similar to the kde Kalarm applet?
[05:06] <dud> an applet that you can setup reminders/alarms to trigger in the future
[05:06] <cavediver> Hi all. I'm installing Ubuntu AMD64 on my new machine. What's the address to the universe repository ?
[05:07] <jcspray> dud: Timer Applet? http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=705 or for scheduling stuff, evolution can pop up alerts and sounds for you.
[05:07] <opi> dud: there is something like this IF you're using Evolution
[05:07] <jcspray> cavediver: it's in /etc/apt/sources.list commented out.
[05:07] <cavediver> Another issue. I use my old graphic-card for now. In this machine I only get 1280x1024 in 60Hz. I can't seem to change it to anything higher.
[05:07] <opi> cavediver: archives.ubuntu.com
[05:07] <cavediver> jcspray: Ohh. that's nice
[05:08] <dud> cavediver, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePackages
[05:08] <cavediver> Haven't got to use Synaptic yet.
[05:09] <dud> jcspray, ill have a look...
[05:09] <cavediver> Anyone have a clue on that frequenzy issue ?
[05:13] <jcspray> cavediver: you probably need to set your monitor frequency ranges in your X configuration file /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
[05:13] <cavediver> jcspray: hmm.. you mean the h and vsync ?
[05:14] <jcspray> ya.
[05:14] <cavediver> I have no idea what I'm supposed to have there :)
[05:15] <jcspray> ask your monitor manufacturer, or find someone with the same monitor.
[05:15] <dud> or google it
[05:15] <cavediver> I think i have my old config around, i'll have a look at that one.
[05:18] <lukasz> hi
[05:18] <lukasz> evry one
[05:19] <klaym> what was the thread again in ubuntuforums.org that tells a beginner all the most important things to do when setting ubuntu up? anyone happen to have a bookmark?
[05:20] <randabis> yay a bunch of hoary updates today fixed the broken themes manager
[05:20] <kensai> klaym, there is a good article right now about this in www.osnews.com
[05:20] <klaym> ok thanks
[05:22] <aethera> lo all
[05:22] <aethera> anyone awake here?
[05:23] <kensai> ZZZzzz
[05:23] <aethera> lo kensai
[05:23] <stere0> i'm awake
[05:23] <kensai> hehe
[05:24] <aethera> heheh
[05:24] <aethera> I am system admin
[05:24] <aethera> I want to know if ubuntu is for me
[05:24] <kensai> then you don't sleep
[05:24] <aethera> cause I am going to provide desktops with ubuntu
[05:24] <stere0> ubuntu is for everyone, so it's also for you
[05:24] <kensai> aethera, ubuntu is pretty good for it, you want a stable desktop?
[05:25] <aethera> kensai I am starting a consulting firm
[05:25] <stere0> which kind of desktop do you want to provide?
[05:25] <aethera> and I amn going to be rolling out clients with ubuntu
[05:25] <kensai> ubuntu is stable withgout being to much outdated
[05:25] <aethera> stere0 a mail / office
[05:25] <kensai> aethera, it is kool then
[05:25] <aethera> what kernel is in ubuntu
[05:25] <stere0> aethera: do you need a coworker?
[05:25] <kensai> aethera, 2.6.8
[05:25] <aethera>  cause I am running arch linux atm
[05:26] <aethera> stere0 I got a contract for about 50 clients now to change them to linux
[05:26] <aethera> :)
[05:26] <aethera> where can I see the applications included with ubuntu
[05:26] <stere0> nice, where do you live?
[05:26] <kensai> aethera, we are reaching world domanition soon with linux ;)
[05:27] <stere0> aethera: it's almost everything included, just like debian sid. over 12.000 packages in ubu-universe
[05:27] <aethera> kensai
[05:27] <kensai> over 14,000 with multiverse and universe
[05:28] <stere0> so we can say all free stuff is available
[05:28] <Fly_80> hi all
[05:28] <kensai> yep
[05:28] <dud> by default evolution is the mail client and openoffice is the office suite
[05:28] <dud> if that was what you were gonna provide aethera
[05:29] <Fly_80> is there a newsreader package ( like PAN ) available for ubuntu-amd64?
[05:29] <dud> and firefox is the default browser
[05:29] <kensai> firefox rulez
[05:29] <aethera> kensai I prefer pure unix