[12:04] <mdz> sladen: they're _racing_ snails
[12:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: why does pterm set TERM = xterm?
[12:08] <thully> Hi - has anyone tried the live CD lately
[12:08] <thully> It appears that the latest daily works - in fact, I'm typing from it right now
[12:09] <thully> There are a few issues I've noticed, though - specific to the Live CD.
[12:10] <mdz> thully: if they were not already mentioned in my email as known problems, they should be reported to Bugzilla
[12:10] <thully> I
[12:10] <thully> 'm not using the old alpha version
[12:11] <thully> is this a more recent e-mail
[12:16] <mdz> I sent an email yesterday
[12:18] <thully> what's the title of said e-mail - I had to unsubscribe from ubuntu-devel for a while under a deluge of e-mail
[12:21] <mdz> something something live CD something
[12:21] <thully> live cd x configuration?
[12:21] <thully> autoconfiguration
[12:21] <mdz> that's it
[12:22] <thully> OK - one of the issues I'm having was reported way back in the days of the warty CD image - and is not fixed in hoary
[12:23] <thully> My ipw2200 wireless only works from live boot if I modprobe -r ipw2200;modprobe ipw2200
[12:24] <thully> actually, it didn't work at all on warty
[12:24] <thully> live cd
[12:25] <azeem> it couldn't find the firmware on warty I think
[12:26] <thully> no - it was there - it gave me some weird semaphore message
[12:26] <mdz> Kamion: have you thought about using passthrough for the ask-questions-before-reboot work?
[12:26] <mdz> thully: file a bug with dmesg output
[12:26] <mdz> thully: component: 'linux'
[12:27] <thully> Also, is there plans to simplify the boot process on the hoary live cd?  it seems very convoluted, as you practically have to go through the whole install process, just not copying any files
[12:28] <mdz> in my tests, it asks 4 questions
[12:29] <mdz> language, location and keyboard layout (which are essentially unavoidable)
[12:29] <mdz> and then hostname
[12:29] <mdz> which will be suppressed
[12:29] <mdz> but honestly, things like that are not important at this point in development; this live CD only came into existence last week, and polish is not our focus yet
[12:29] <thully> well, you could have a few common languages/keyboard layouts on the grub boot screen and offer a "custom" option
[12:30] <mdz> you may have noticed that there is no grub boot screen
[12:30] <thully> Well, so far it's better than warty's - it can have software installed on it and it works with wi-fi
[12:30] <thully> there was some type of boot screen - just like the install cd
[12:31] <mdz> yes, isolinux.  it doesn't provide the fancy menus and such that are possible with grub
[12:31] <thully> OK
[12:31] <mdz> but it boots correctly on more machines
[12:31] <jdub> mdz: some of the 'convolution' feeling comes from rapidly switching progress bar action
[12:31] <jdub> which is hard to avoid atm
[12:31] <thully> didn't pay that much attention to what happened at boot
[12:31] <thully> also, it takes a long time to boot compared to knoppix and the like
[12:32] <mdz> it boots faster than the warty live CD for me
[12:32] <mdz> probably your CD-ROM doesn't have DMA enabled
[12:32] <mdz> the hoary live CD doesn't try to enable it if it's disabled by default, while knoppix and the like do
[12:33] <jdub> mdz: can we avoid loading a bunch of the nichey udebs if the kernel modules are on the live image?
[12:33] <thully> well - I have a laptop, so maybe some weird quirks are causing this
[12:34] <thully> Other issues I've had include - autohinter isn't enabled by default on fonts, and configuring wi-fi in GNOME control panel doesn't work (even after ipw2200 is reloaded - I ended up invoking dhcp from command line)
[12:34] <jdub> the autohinter thing isn't livecd-specific
[12:35] <thully> did they turn it off by default in standard hoary?  last I checked hoary turned it on by default
[12:35] <thully> warty did not
[12:36] <thully> This makes all fonts look much better - so it should default to on
[12:36] <mdz> hmm, ipw2200 doesn't work for me either on the live CD, now that I look
[12:36] <mdz> it's because it's failing to load the firmware
[12:36] <mdz> that means the firmware must be missing from the udebs
[12:36] <mdz> that's why reloading it works
[12:37] <mdz> Kamion: ^^^^
[12:40] <thully> so, what's Ubuntu going to do about the thunderbird/firefox trademark situation?
[12:41] <jdub> we've been talking to the mozilla folks
[12:41] <jdub> it's an open issue
[12:41] <mdz> jdub: oh, autohinter changes, is that why hoary fonts look different?
[12:41] <thully> will you do what debian does, or may Ubuntu stick with "firefox/thunderbird" while Debian goes iceweasel?
[12:41] <mdz> looks better on my laptop, slightly less so on my desktop
[12:42] <jdub> mdz: mmm
[12:42] <jdub> mdz: which fonts do you use? bitstream vera or others?
[12:42] <mdz> jdub: I use whatever the defaults are
[12:42] <jdub> thully: it's an open question
[12:42] <thully> mdz: the hoary installer used laptop-detect and used subpixel/autohinter (both) on my laptop
[12:42] <thully> I believe it would use just autohinter (no subpixel) on desktops
[12:44] <mdz> jdub: I really don't have a handle on our font setup
[12:44] <thully> laptop-detect with one set of settings for desktop and one for laptop would seem to be the ideal solution
[12:45] <thully> for both live cd and non-live install
[12:48] <jdub> mdz: fontconfig.config
[12:48] <jdub> mdz: i don't think it should be autoconfiguring subpixel myself
[12:49] <jdub> mdz: that's probably best left to a gnome postinst gconf defaults change, such as we do with the default panel applets
[12:49] <thully> It should pick the optimal look for the hardware
[12:50] <thully> I've got to go - first a quick question - how do you restart X on the live CD without causing it to shutdown?
[12:51] <thully> don't bother - I figured how to test autohinter another way.
[12:51] <mdz> jdub: so essentially everything in the desktop is doing client-side fonts?
[12:51] <thully> bye
[12:51] <jdub> mdz: yeah, totally
[12:51] <jdub> mdz: that's the new world order
[12:51] <mdz> jdub: is there even any point in installing the X fonts, then?
[12:52] <jdub> not hugeyl
[12:52] <mdz> all 20 megs of them or whatever
[12:52] <jdub> yeah, that's a good point
[12:53] <mdz> I suppose people might expect to be able to run xterm and such
[12:53] <mdz> but surely we can trim it down a bit
[01:39] <thully> Hi - just booted the liveCD again - my system really took a long time at the network configuration stages
[01:50] <jdub> amu: ping
[01:50] <jdub> hrm, probably a bit late
[01:52] <amu> jdub: hurry up, i'm on the way to bed 
[01:52] <jdub> hey hey :)
[01:52] <jdub> amu: arts depends on libjack which depends on jackd - yikes!
[01:52] <jdub> installing kde-core
[01:53] <jdub> some of the depends are... odd
[01:53] <jdub> amu: do you have a seed list for kubuntu yet?
[01:53] <amu> jdub: next on my todo, well those meta things are all broken :( 
[01:54] <jdub> pretty wacky :)
[01:54] <jdub> what packages do you recommend installing for a good kde desktop, ala kubuntu?
[01:54] <amu> jdub: i spend the hole WE on the Kstuff, finally everything is uploaded
[01:54] <jdub> if you have a list handy
[01:55] <amu> apt-get install kde is the best of the worsest cases   
[01:55] <jdub> dude, that was *insane*
[01:56] <jdub> you couldn't possibly fit all that stuff on one cd ;)
[01:56] <Riddell> jdub: kdelibs, kdebase, libarts1-mpeglib, juk, kdm, gwenview, kontact  off the top of my head
[01:57] <amu> jdub: hehe 
[01:57] <amu> jdub: the problem is not the big kde packages, the prob are the small CD's *duck* 
[01:58] <jdub> the non-kde depends for 'kde' are pretty crazy though
[02:00] <amu> jdub: ;) i'm sure we find a cool solution, not every k package is needed for a cool desktop     
[02:01] <amu> jdub: but you're too fast for me, i'm not fulltime working on it 
[02:02] <amu> jdub: but good to know, you're my betatester no.1 with 3.4
[02:02] <jdub> amu: it'll be easier now that we're in UVF :)
[02:02] <kent> Cant you make a dvd-version of Ubuntu, with more stuff on it than the usual cd, i mean.. if you still want to limit it to one disc?
[02:02] <eruin> ?UVF
[02:02] <jdub> kent: it's highly likely that there'll be a dvd image with all of supported on it, plus the normal live image
[02:03] <jdub> eruin: upstream version freeze, when we stop syncing with sid
[02:03] <jdub> amu: running a big install now :)
[02:03] <eruin> that explains the lack of daily en-masse-updates
[02:03] <eruin> ;)
[02:03] <ajmitch> jdub: what's the general criteria for being naughty & breaking the freeze?
[02:04] <jdub> ajmitch: for main, we only sync if there are fixes we need, or if debian's merged ours
[02:04] <jdub> ajmitch: and exceptional other circumstances
[02:04] <ajmitch> and universe?
[02:04] <jdub> ajmitch: see the release schedule for all the freeze definitions
[02:04] <jdub> universe is slightly more flexible, or has been in the pasts
[02:04] <jdub> past
[02:04] <ajmitch> ok
[02:05] <jdub> ie. if someone's said it works and it's valuable for xyz reasons, we'll generally sync
[02:05] <jdub> and it doesn't have potentially obvious side-effects
[02:05] <jdub> ajmitch: thought so ;)
[02:06] <jdub> ajmitch: i have the suspicion that within a few releases, we'll start seeing debian uploads to sid specifically in time for UVF :)
[02:06] <ajmitch> it's not like anyone else will care about them ;)
[02:06] <ajmitch> oh most likely :)
[02:07] <ajmitch> at least people won't be uploading semi-stable packages, just bugfixes for that time
[02:07] <amu> jdub: hehehe, next time we meet, i want see you installation :) 
[02:07] <jdub> amu: this is on my desktop testing box - it also has windows xp on it ;)
[02:08] <ajmitch> I ought to wait a few days before doing this warty->hoary upgrade
[02:08] <ajmitch> supposedly I'm moving to 256Kbps DSL soon :)
[02:10] <jbailey> ajmitch: Ouch.  I've been wrestling with whether to upgrade from 3M to 5M. =)
[02:10] <eruin> I was about to say you poor thing, too
[02:10] <jbailey> Mostly because I then go from 384k up 768k up.
[02:11] <ajmitch> I'll probably be able to get 2M by march or so
[02:11] <ajmitch> still only 128k up
[02:11] <ajmitch> but I'll at least be able to do a little bit of hacking by then :)
[02:12] <mjg59> daniels: Sweet crack today?
[02:13] <robertj> deep thought: If Debian really does time-based releases, will Ubuntu sync up somehow?
[02:13] <eruin> ajmitch: you'll need more than 128up for that 2mbit down to be of any real use ;>
[02:14] <ajmitch> eruin: blame the NZ government for that ;)
[02:14] <eruin> mmm, nz
[02:14] <eruin> reminds me of home ;)
[02:15] <daniels> mjg59: hopefully, yah
[02:15] <daniels> Kamion: ping
[02:15] <daniels> mdz: ping
[02:16] <mjg59> mdz: Working hibernate key requires us to ship an ibm-acpi modprobe.d fragment. ipw2200 should work after swsusp if you either (a) provide pci=routeirq on the kernel command line, or (b) wait for fabbione to apply the patch I sent him today
[02:19] <mjg59> daniels: Rocking
[02:24] <mjg59> Ass. #5576 is very irritating.
[02:26] <sladen> mjg59: why is being run at that point?
[02:26] <ajmitch> excellent, recent ext2online works on lvm
[02:26] <mjg59> sladen: As opposed to?
[02:27] <mjg59> I guess doing it in multiuser might work as well, but it has to be done before X is started
[02:32] <daniels> mjg59: S12
[02:34] <mjg59> Anyway, I blame thom :P
[02:34] <sladen> mjg59: oh, why is vbestate being run?
[02:34] <mjg59> sladen: To save the video state before X is started
[02:34] <mjg59> We need something to restore after resume, and saving on suspend doesn't seem to work very well
[02:40] <sivang> jdub: do you know if the plans to move menu representation to GtkUIManager are in place for 2.10 ?
[02:41] <sivang> jdub: (e.g. using xml for all menu reps. instead of acutal packing calls in code etc)
[02:49] <sladen> mjg59: I think I asked somebody to file a bug about that earlier today  (NTP hanging under Hoary)
[03:13] <jdub> sivang: which menus?
[03:15] <mjg59> daniels: In the case of DDC only providing mode names and not sync ranges, shouldn't it be possible to calculate ranges?
[03:15] <sivang> jdub: I was referring to the way an app
[03:15] <sivang>                specifies it's menus for the UI.
[03:16] <jdub> depends on the app
[03:16] <sivang> jdub: that is , I understood that there is an intent to move have apps use GtkUIManager which uses XML specs for creating menus. And Nautilus is already using it.
[03:16] <jdub> you can use gtkuimanager manually too
[03:16] <jdub> it's up to the author
[03:17] <daniels> mjg59: i have 3 vim sessions dedicated to this very task right now
[03:17] <mjg59> Rock
[03:17] <daniels> mjg59: the problem is that we only decided whether or not to write the sync ranges in dexconf, which is far too late
[03:17] <daniels> mjg59: so i'm moving all that over to .config.in, which can work out whether or not we got everything
[03:18] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[03:18] <sivang> jdub: ok, so a streamlined way to add the launchpad integration entries should not be (at least in theory) be affected by this right?
[03:18] <daniels> so the 'special' logic is all there, and i'm writing crt-with-list-of-resolutions-but-no-sync-ranges logic now
[03:18] <jdub> sivang: i believe libgnome(ui) may be useful here
[03:18] <jdub> sivang: i recall something about adding common help items
[03:18] <jdub> mjg59: know anything about that?
[03:19] <sivang> jdub: and about items also?
[03:19] <jdub> i'm talking about help menus
[03:19] <sivang> jdub: ah ok, you have a thread link?
[03:20] <jdub> thread of what?
[03:20] <sivang> jdub: nm.
[03:31] <daniels> either this monitor is a ghost monitor, or it's caching DDC
[03:32] <daniels> (i have a benq lcd and a dell crt, and when the dell crt was turned off and unplugged from power, it was returning ddc results from there)
[03:39] <jdub> oof, lots of crap in u-u moderation
[03:39] <jdub> prepare for gibs
[03:46] <sivang> jdub: what's gibs?
[03:47] <tseng> sivang: ever hack someone to pieces with the crowbar in halflife?
[03:47] <mjg59> daniels: I think I've seen hardware that cached stuff if there wasn't a response
[03:48] <sivang> tseng: hmm, done something similar to this in HeavyMetalII 
[03:48] <tseng> sivang: the little bits left over are gibs
[03:49] <sivang> tseng: ah ok, thanks ;)
[03:51] <daniels> mjg59: it's a good idea, so you don't have to tie up the lines waiting for ddc, but bleh
[03:54] <mjg59> Bastard protocol from hell
[04:42] <daniels> mjg59: i've just had an epiphany
[04:42] <daniels> mjg59: you know how if we take the state from just before suspend, and restore it after resume, the rendering is totally wack?
[04:42] <daniels> mjg59: and you know how dri is enabled before suspend, but not after resume?
[04:43] <daniels> mjg59: ... connect the dots
[05:02] <sladen> oooh, oooh.  I think it might be possible to do ppc, x86, amd64 *and* ia-64 on the same bootable ISO
[05:09] <sladen> daniels: I suspect the ddc electronics are hot the whole time the VGA cable is plugged on so that you can detect it and turn it off and on ?
[05:23] <daniels> sladen: well, you can detect the rpesence of a crt or otherwise, so it probably caches it for the lifetime of the connection
[05:30] <fabbione> morning
[05:34] <daniels> fabbione: dude, you so need to sleep in
[05:37] <sladen> fabbione: morning.  ibm-acpi 0.10 is out  :-)
[05:38] <fabbione> daniels: i know...
[05:38] <fabbione> sladen: and the dpatch for the kernel?
[05:38] <fabbione> + i have a patch for ibm-acpi from mjg59 to fix some stuff
[05:40] <sladen> fabbione: no delta patch that I can see
[05:42] <fabbione> sladen: give me a dpatch :-)
[05:44] <sladen> fabbione: but you /know/ how much /hassle/ that is :)
[05:48] <HostingGeek> there is a huge bug in shorewall 2.0.13 and debian has upgraded to not only 2.0.14 but 2.0.15.1 can we see another merge
[05:48] <HostingGeek> thx cya
[05:51] <fabbione> daniels: can you gimme op access level in here please?
[05:51] <fabbione> (level 10 is the minimum according to chanserv config)
[05:58] <daniels> fabbione: i don't have it in #u-d
[05:58] <bob2> fabbione: only thombot has it in here
[05:59] <fabbione> ok
[06:10] <thully> hi - can someone answer some questions on how the settings for subpixel rendering are decided?
[06:10] <thully> does Ubuntu choose a different type of subpixel rendering (rgb, bgr, vertical rgb, vertical bgr) based on the configuration?
[06:11] <thully> does X.org handle this any differently than XFree86?
[06:11] <daniels> you're better off asking in #ubuntu, but no, we don't pick the subpixel order at present.  and the important thing isn't xfree86 vs xorg, it's the versions of fontconfig and freetype you have installed.
[06:11] <fabbione> thully: these stuff is offtopic here
[06:12] <thully> OK - just thought this to be a bit technical for #ubuntu
[06:13] <fabbione> daniels: if i will give you an acx100 driver can you test it for me? to fix the firmware load path?
[06:13] <fabbione> daniels: also.. what flavour do i need to build for you? 686?
[06:13] <daniels> fabb	sure
[06:13] <daniels> fabbione: k7 pls
[06:13] <thully> I do know that the ubuntu-devel mailing list is for development and very technical questions - is this different?
[06:13] <fabbione> daniels 
[06:13] <fabbione> daniels: sure.. thanks
[06:14] <fabbione> thully: a lot of people on #ubuntu has very high tech skils
[06:14] <fabbione> skills even
[06:14] <daniels> fabbione: cheers dude
[06:14] <fabbione> this chan is very specific to development
[06:15] <thully> OK - I guess I kind of thought it was like the ubuntu-devel mailing list which said it was for highly technical discussions and development
[06:43] <fabbione> daniels: what package does actually ship the acx100 firmware?
[06:44] <daniels> fabbione: lrm-ver-subarch
[06:45] <fabbione> ok
[06:51] <fabbione> daniels: just to make the first test easier.. what firmware do you load?
[06:51] <fabbione> or better.. that chipset do you have?
[06:52] <fabbione> the ACX111 or the pure ACX100?
[06:52] <daniels> 111
[06:52] <fabbione> i knew that your hardware sucks :-)
[06:52] <fabbione> clearly is the most complicated one
[06:52] <fabbione> ahahah
[06:52] <daniels> i need TIACX111.BIN
[06:52] <daniels> heh :)
[06:52] <daniels> dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp
[06:52] <daniels> cp: cannot create regular file `debian/libxdamage-dev//usr/X11R6/lib/pkgconfig/xdamage.pc': Permission denied
[06:52] <daniels> ...
[06:53] <daniels> ah, I see
[07:08] <fabbione> daniels: it will take me a little while to build
[07:08] <daniels> fabbione: sure, that's fine
[07:08] <fabbione> i don't think i have k7 in ccache
[07:08] <daniels> heh :)
[07:09] <fabbione> well i still have my -j15 to build :-)
[07:09] <fabbione> ccache+distcc = teh r0ck
[07:10] <jdub> if a shared library is considered private, is it okay to put it in the same package as a normal executable?
[07:10] <jdub> they don't really need to be split if that's kosher
[07:10] <bob2> is it in /usr/lib/packagename/?
[07:11] <daniels> (also, don't ship a .so at all)
[07:11] <daniels> and yes
[07:12] <jdub> it's not in /usr/lib/packagename/
[07:13] <fabbione> jdub: i would do that only if 100% sure that nothing in future will use that lib
[07:13] <fabbione> otherwise just split it and it's done...
[07:13] <fabbione> once and forever
[07:13] <fabbione> and you don't need to rethink it in 2 months from now
[07:31] <fabbione> daniels: building now
[07:36] <jdub> heh, morning mpt
[07:36] <jdub> wondered how long it would take :)
[07:37] <daniels> fabbione: cool, thanks
[07:37] <jdub> mdz: can i move dbus-1 from the base to desktop?
[07:37] <jdub> mdz: i have *no* idea why it's in base
[07:38] <daniels> sure nothing else in base depends on it?
[07:38] <jdub> 100%
[07:38] <jdub> otherwise it would depend on it
[07:38] <daniels> wacky
[07:39] <Keybuk> if something in base depended on it, he couldn't move it
[07:39] <Keybuk> germinate would be sarcastic and leave it where it was
[07:39] <jdub> i want to see aforementioned sarcasm
[07:40] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-hoary-output/_germinate_output ? :p
[07:40] <Keybuk> ! Promoted debhelper from supported to desktop to satisfy alien
[07:41] <Keybuk> that kind of thing
[07:41] <mpt> jdub: And what's that supposed to imply? :-)
[07:41] <jdub> mpt: that you're a sucker for punishment, and we've piqued your interest. :-)
[07:41] <jdub> Keybuk: i want to see sarcasm, dude!
[07:42] <Keybuk> jdub: I swear it was more sarcastic when I maintained it :p
[07:42] <mpt> jdub: Something like that
[07:42] <mpt> jdub: I see there's a graphical installer that needs designing ...
[07:42] <mpt> (or so it says on the wiki)
[07:43] <jdub> Keybuk: colin made it polite
[07:43] <jdub> Keybuk: perhaps we should maintain a marvin branch
[07:43] <jdub> Keybuk: "oh, sigh, these humans don't know how to satisfy alien"
[07:43] <Keybuk> easy, oo-mox
[07:45] <jdub> hrm, wish rince ran postfix
[07:49] <fabbione> daniels: did you see that xine* bug i did assign to you?
[07:49] <fabbione> daniels: do you think you can manage to fix it?
[07:49] <fabbione> otherwise in fullscreen it is real crap
[07:58] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, I'll do that tonight
[08:17] <fabbione> daniels: acx_pci.ko, right?
[08:21] <fabbione> daniels: it's on people...
[08:21] <fabbione> just grab that one and be sure you don't have any symlink or firmware around
[08:21] <fabbione> modprobe it 
[08:21] <fabbione> and it should print some extra crap in the dmesg
[08:22] <fabbione> like FABBIONE: <blabla>
[08:22] <fabbione> that will tell you if it found the right file or not
[08:33] <daniels> fabbione: ah cool
[08:33] <daniels> hold on a sec
[08:34] <daniels> was just eating, sorry
[08:38] <fabbione> np
[08:41] <daniels> heh
[08:42] <daniels> i forgot i was back on -1
[08:42] <daniels> so i've installed -2, in the meantime my wireless card has died in the arse and won't come back up
[08:42] <daniels> so i'm just waiting for this xorg build to finish before i reboot
[08:42] <daniels> just in dh_strip now
[08:42] <fabbione> sure
[08:42] <fabbione> no problem
[08:43] <fabbione> just replace the driver from people before rebootinh
[08:43] <fabbione> and check the dmesg
[08:43] <fabbione> so you don't need to unload/load
[08:43] <fabbione> but be sure that you don't have spurious firmwares around
[08:43] <fabbione> brb
[08:44] <daniels> yeah
[08:44] <fabbione> -               sprintf(filename,"%s/TIACX111.BIN", firmware_dir); /* combined firmware */
[08:44] <fabbione> +               sprintf(filename,"%s/TIACX111.BIN-%s", firmware_dir, UTS_RELEASE);
[08:44] <fabbione> +               if (OK != acx_check_file(filename)) {
[08:44] <fabbione> +                       acxlog(L_INIT, "FABBIONE Firmware: '%s' not found. Trying alternative firmware.\n", filename);
[08:44] <fabbione> +                       sprintf(filename,"%s/TIACX111.BIN", firmware_dir); /* combined firmware */
[08:44] <fabbione> +               }
[08:44] <fabbione> the patch is easy
[08:44] <fabbione> but basically i need to see if UTS_RELEASE is what we really need :-)
[08:44] <daniels> cool :)
[08:45] <fabbione> if that works i need to propagate the change to the lower firmware loader
[08:46] <daniels> i'll tell you :)
[08:46] <daniels> rebooting now
[08:46] <fabbione> ok
[08:48] <daniels> fabbione: scoooooooooooore
[08:48] <daniels> fabbione: thanks mate :)
[08:54] <fabbione> daniels: cool
[08:58] <sivang> Morning all
[09:01] <fabbione> this code is SO hugly!
[09:01] <Treenaks> morning sivang
[09:01] <fabbione> hi sivang 
[09:01] <fabbione> hi Treenaks 
[09:01] <sivang> fabbione: did you sacrafice your daily chunk of gpg keys?
[09:01] <Treenaks> hi fabbione
[09:01] <fabbione> sivang: ?
[09:02] <Treenaks> fabbione: I tried the VIA driver from the unichrome.sf.net site (on sid, with XFree86 4.3.0)
[09:02] <Treenaks> fabbione: it works fine now
[09:02] <daniels> Treenaks: you know hoary has the via driver from unichrome now? :)
[09:02] <Treenaks> fabbione: (though there's one patch not integrated yet.. )
[09:02] <Treenaks> daniels: yeah, I read that
[09:02] <sivang> fabbione: the gpg keys scarafice , surely you emember one frustrating day with the kernel? ;-)
[09:03] <fabbione> Treenaks: open a wishlist bug on debian for it, but i don't promise to get it in.
[09:03] <Treenaks> daniels: but my machine is running sid, and I don't like reinstalling ;)
[09:03] <fabbione> sivang: ehehe
[09:03] <sivang> fabbione: buena serra btw :)
[09:03] <Treenaks> fabbione: I'll stick with the unofficial xserver packages I found
[09:03] <fabbione> Treenaks: Branden and I are being pretty conservative at this point of the release to mess around too much with drivers and such
[09:04] <fabbione> sivang: :-)
[09:05] <sivang> fabbione: (I hope I said good morning in italian)
[09:05] <sivang> Treenaks: morning!
[09:07] <Treenaks> fabbione: yeah, I understand
[09:07] <Treenaks> fabbione: that's why I'm using the unofficial deb ;)
[09:09] <daniels> heh, cool :)
[09:09] <daniels> xresprobe now tells you whether the display is crt, lcd/lvds, or lcd/tmds
[09:09] <fabbione> sorry i am fighting with teh HUGLYNESS right now
[09:09] <fabbione> daniels: that driver needs a full rewrite
[09:10] <daniels> fabbione: what, via?
[09:10] <fabbione> it's so much crap that it doesn't deserve to live in my kernel
[09:10] <fabbione> acx100
[09:10] <Treenaks> daniels: the via kernel driver (drm) is undergoing a rewrite already :)
[09:10] <fabbione> they don't even know how to write C
[09:11] <Treenaks> daniels: ("That's the largest function I've ever seen in a C program" - some dri coder)
[09:14] <fabbione> daniels: afaics we don't ship the USB version, right?
[09:15] <daniels> Treenaks: yeah, I've seen alanh going through and rewriting a whole bunch of stuff
[09:15] <daniels> fabbione: oh yeah, acx, it's a horror
[09:15] <daniels> fabbione: i don't think they even have the usb stuff working
[09:16] <fabbione> ok
[09:19] <fabbione> daniels: can you do me a favour? on 5329 can you just add a foobar comment?  i need to see if my new mail filters are working :-)
[09:27] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:27] <pitti> Hi fabbione 
[09:27] <pitti> hi everybody
[09:27] <fabbione> pitti: gimme some bad news.. just to start the week :)
[09:28] <fabbione> pitti: can you please add a simple foobar comment to 5329?
[09:28] <fabbione> i need to test my spam^Wbug mail filters?
[09:29] <pitti> fabbione: hmm, I don't think that I can add anything qualified to this bug
[09:29] <fabbione> just foobar
[09:29] <fabbione> i don't need anything useful in it
[09:29] <pitti> fabbione: bad news> wait, I just opened my mailbox :-)
[09:29] <fabbione> but i cannot do it myseld
[09:29] <pitti> okay
[09:29] <bob2> done
[09:30] <fabbione> thanks
[09:30] <fabbione> perfect
[09:30] <pitti> fabbione: mid-air collision...
[09:30] <pitti> bob2 was faster
[09:30] <fabbione> pitti: bob2 did.. thanks
[09:31] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync mailman?
[09:31] <HostingGeek> can we have more games in ubuntu which are offical support (right channel?)
[09:32] <daniels> HostingGeek: wrong channel.
[09:33] <fabbione> pitti: i need to go and pick up the new passport
[09:33] <fabbione> pitti: please mail me if there is any bad news
[09:33] <pitti> fabbione: sure
[09:33] <fabbione> i plan another upload today or tomorrow
[09:33] <opi> morning
[09:33] <pitti> fabbione: I ordered mine last week, but our country needs 6 weeks to create a passport :-(
[09:34] <fabbione> pitti: i am waiting since november :-)
[09:34] <opi> pitti: here you need 8 and a bribe ;-))
[09:34] <fabbione> pitti: because i live in dk and the embassy needs permissions and papers from italy
[09:34] <pitti> hmm, okay, maybe .de is not _that_ bad :-)
[09:34] <pitti> fabbione: ah, right
[09:35] <opi> well, shouldn't we drop passports in UE? :)
[09:35] <fabbione> opi: you still need it to travel outside EU :(
[09:36] <opi> fabbione: that's true
[09:36] <sivang> pitti: morning !
[09:36] <fabbione> later
[09:36] <pitti> Hi sivang!
[09:36] <Treenaks> fabbione: no, we just extend it further
[09:36] <sivang> pitti: what's up? 
[09:37] <bob2> hah
[09:37] <fabbione> Treenaks: for .it extending = make a new one
[09:37] <Treenaks> fabbione: starting with (of course) the middle-east and Africa :)
[09:37] <fabbione> i am off for real now
[09:37] <sivang> pitti: if you have time today, I'd like to try close the pending g-s-t issues wrt the stock profiles we should provide.
[09:37] <pitti> sivang: sure!
[09:39] <sivang> pitti: cool :-)
[09:39] <pitti> amu: hi!
[09:39] <pitti> amu: did you already fix CAN-2004-1145 in Warty?
[09:54] <mdz> jdub: wtf is it doing in base?
[09:54] <mdz> jdub: (yes)
[09:54] <mdz> daniels: pong
[09:54] <mdz> mjg59: is the ibm-acpi modprobe.d fragment documented somewhere?
[09:55] <daniels> mdz: is the only framebuffer for the livecd goign to be vga16?
[09:55] <mdz> daniels: I believe it tries vesafb, and if that doesn't work, falls back to vga16
[09:55] <daniels> cool
[09:56] <daniels> well, I've blacklisted vga16 itmt
[09:58] <daniels> (which is enough for the livecd)
[09:59] <opi> btw: I've filled a ,,bug'', but it should be easy to fix, so maybe I'll mention it here
[09:59] <opi> I've noticed that ubuntu-desktop don't depend on sudo, and while we use sudo for everything, shouldn't it be there?
[09:59] <opi> you can apt-get remove sudo, and render some desktop parts unusable
[10:04] <HostingGeek> RE: the nvu source package
[10:04] <HostingGeek> i still have got to reply
[10:04] <HostingGeek> when is the dead line for me to get it fixed so it can be included in universe ?
[10:04] <daniels> like last week
[10:04] <daniels> or two weeks ago
[10:05] <HostingGeek> daniels: can we make one acception 
[10:05] <HostingGeek> daniels: we are talking about nvu
[10:06] <daniels> in 'exceptional circumstances', uvf can be broken.  what's so exceptional about nvu? (i don't even know what's broken, so you'll have to explain)
[10:06] <HostingGeek> daniels: the nvu  sourece package i found md5sum mismatch
[10:07] <HostingGeek> so people here screemed it being unsafe
[10:07] <daniels> er, that pretty much can't actually happen
[10:07] <daniels> since katie looks at what's in the archive, takes an md5sum of that, and then uses that for Sources.gz
[10:08] <HostingGeek> daniels: well thats what happened so i think Kamion or Keybuk said the rep probbly has been hacked
[10:09] <thom> daniels: it's not in our repo at all, afaik
[10:09] <thom> this was a different repo
[10:09] <thom> mjg59: *what* is all my fault this time? :P
[10:10] <HostingGeek> daniels: i guess you don't remeber the convo here....
[10:10] <daniels> thom: oh, sensible
[10:10] <daniels> HostingGeek: dude, if the ubuntu repository's been cracked, we won't be fixing some random package in universe
[10:10] <thom> heh
[10:11] <daniels> there's sort of a more serious problem that we might want to fix
[10:11] <HostingGeek> daniels: this is another rep.... which has a source package for nvu that ubuntu can use
[10:11] <daniels> ... so why are you asking here?
[10:11] <thom> because he wants to get it in universe
[10:11] <thom> keep up
[10:11] <daniels> ah, well in that case, upstream version freeze has passed
[10:12] <daniels> thom: dude, i can keep up with the coherent
[10:12] <daniels> thom: in any case, i8xx dri suspend/resume is on the way -- shazam
[10:12] <HostingGeek> daniels: ok so we can work on making it for grumpy?!?
[10:13] <daniels> HostingGeek: when the time comes
[10:13] <HostingGeek> daniels: no it need a lot of work
[10:14] <daniels> so do the work beforehand
[10:18] <HostingGeek> nvu provides firefox now
[10:19] <daniels> host	it what?
[10:19] <HostingGeek> so can't we just make a simple build that replaces firefox
[10:19] <thom> um, no
[10:19] <daniels> no
[10:19] <thom> that's utter, total crack
[10:19] <HostingGeek> rather than do a huge code edit
[10:19] <HostingGeek> me?
[10:20] <daniels> yes
[10:21] <HostingGeek> changing servers if anyone said anything to me resay i am missing 50% of stuff said in this channel from this server
[10:21] <daniels> it's a really bad idea
[10:21] <HostingGeek> why?
[10:21] <HostingGeek> brb
[10:22] <HostingGeek> ok back
[10:23] <HostingGeek> daniels: why is it a bad idea , it better than having nvu+firefox installed and firefox
[10:24] <thom> nvu should just use the installed firefox
[10:25] <Treenaks> nvu should use the x-www-browser!
[10:25] <HostingGeek> daniels: there is one problem with freezing now, firefox 1.1 will be out before hoary become stable and open office 2 and #ubuntu will be full of "why didn't ubuntu ship with firefox 1.1 and open office 2?"
[10:26] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: thats a bigger hack than thom idea
[10:26] <trukulo> Mithrandir: u awak?
[10:26] <trukulo> sorry, are you awake?
[10:26] <HostingGeek> thom: so many distro tried making a hack for nvu but it pritty much then a rewrite
[10:29] <HostingGeek> daniels: can you give me a server that does give lag for 3 min?
[10:30] <Mithrandir> trukulo: yes
[10:31] <trukulo> Mithrandir: is last video full uploaded?
[10:31] <thom> HostingGeek: then until nvu is fixed to use the installed firefox i dont believe its suitable for inclusion
[10:32] <Mithrandir> trukulo: yes, absolutely.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> trukulo: I'm uploading at 1Mbyte/sec ATM. :)
[10:32] <trukulo> Mithrandir: cool ! so i close torrent seed
[10:32] <Mithrandir> great
[10:33] <trukulo> and now, we have full videos uploaded :)
[10:34] <Mithrandir> yup
[10:34] <Mithrandir> I'm going to blog it on planet.ubuntu
[10:34] <Mithrandir> but not right now, since I'm in a meeting.
[10:34] <HostingGeek> thom: yes and its no where in the road map thats why it should provide firefox
[10:35] <thom> no, that's totally friggin' backwards
[10:36] <HostingGeek> thom: well the nvu team have no where in there road map to do this
[10:36] <thom> HostingGeek: well, tell them to do so
[10:36] <HostingGeek> thom: and many have tried to do this but still got no where
[10:36] <thom> HostingGeek: you won't find any distros bar linspire being at all thrilled by the idea of using firefox from some random tarball
[10:36] <HostingGeek> thom: ummm so many distro have requested this
[10:37] <HostingGeek> thom: then merge it back to our build of firefox
[10:38] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: uh... you're seeing it backwards.
[10:38] <HostingGeek> Dependce problem
[10:38] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: nvu should use the existing firefox. firefox should not be "patched" so NVU works with it (I ope)
[10:38] <trukulo> pefect
[10:39] <HostingGeek> libsdl-sound1.2 depends on linflac4
[10:39] <HostingGeek> and there is no libflac4 in universe
[10:39] <Treenaks> urgh.. the flac4/flac6 thing
[10:40] <HostingGeek> daniels: any chance on letting in one more file
[10:40] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: libflac4 should then be a dummy package
[10:40] <thom> no, libsdl-sound should be rebuilt
[10:40] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: a lot of games do need libsdl-sound1.2
[10:42] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: RE: nvu; yes it should someone should tell that to the nvu devels but as they will not do it, and it to hard for anyone else to do as its rewrite too much, its the only way
[10:43] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: you're talking to them, as a packager, aren't you?
[10:43] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: so you should ask them, or write it yourself
[10:43] <elmo> pitti: done
[10:43] <pitti> thanks
[10:43] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: so far, debian, gentoo, mandrake, suse.... have asked this of them
[10:43] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: well, if you ask, ubuntu asked as well
[10:43] <HostingGeek> not sure if fedora did
[10:44] <Mithrandir> elmo: care to sync mailman from unstable, please?
[10:44] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: the more people ask, the more likely they'll do it
[10:44] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: well as i can't speel want to proof read my email
[10:44] <elmo> Mithrandir: that was the 'done'
[10:44] <Mithrandir> elmo: ah, ok, thanks then  :)
[10:45] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: evolution has a spell checker built in.
[10:45] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: and maybe you should learn to spell then?
[10:45] <ogra> morning
[10:45] <Treenaks> hey ogra
[10:45] <ogra> hi
[10:45] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: yes and it can't tell 50% of my words
[10:46] <ogra> elmo: so now please tell me what am i missing to get my uploads functional....
[10:46] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: and anyway my gammar
[10:47] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: well, learning is a good thing
[10:47] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: and if you want to do stuff for free software, you might as well learn that as well :)
[10:47] <HostingGeek> heh
[10:47] <elmo> ogra: one sec
[10:48] <ogra> yup :)
[10:49] <trukulo> hi ogra
[10:49] <ogra> hi :)
[10:49] <HostingGeek> hmm can i make a ubuntu-games package that depends on all the working and cool games to be included in ubuntu?
[10:50] <trukulo> HostingGeek: please, don't
[10:50] <HostingGeek> trukulo: ok lol
[10:50] <trukulo> :)
[10:55] <HostingGeek> why doesn't ubuntu offical suppport a free open source java vm? so it can ship with java preinstalled
[10:55] <HostingGeek> *offically
[10:55] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: because there is no free java vm that's good enough ?
[10:56] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: you see thats why i need you to read my email before i send it
[10:56] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: blackdown is
[10:56] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: blackdown is not free
[10:56] <Treenaks> http://www.debian.org/social_contract -> look at the "DFSG", read the blackdown license and compare
[10:57] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: hmmm #ubuntu told me it is free
[10:58] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: yes. free as in beer. not free as in freedom.
[10:58] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: i remeber reading in debian news letter something about debian supporting one
[10:58] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: you should really read a bit more on what "free" in "free software" means
[10:58] <HostingGeek> i know what it mean
[10:58] <Treenaks> apparently noyt
[10:58] <Treenaks> not
[10:58] <HostingGeek> but i thought he ment as freedom
[10:59] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: don't think if you don't have all the facts
[11:00] <HostingGeek> ok out of all the free vms now can't ubuntu ship with the best one (which one is the best one?)
[11:02] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: because nobody has stepped up and implemented it?
[11:02] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: in a Good way?
[11:03] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: debian has i remeber reading in a news letter a few weeks ago about it
[11:04] <trukulo> HostingGeek: read it again, please
[11:04] <trukulo> that java vm's are not "production ready"
[11:05] <HostingGeek> but something is better than nothing
[11:05] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: a broken java is worse than no java at all
[11:06] <azeem> I wonder whether java-package has been fixed to work with Sun's jre-1.5 final
[11:06] <daniels> i always feared the development channel would become cluttered with useless crap so it would become hopeless as a development chanenl
[11:07] <ogra> azeem: not yet, but we have percompiled binarys....on a community repo for 1.5
[11:07] <HostingGeek> azeem: it has
[11:08] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: JamVM clames to support upto java 1.2, so it 3 versions old
[11:08] <azeem> yeah
[11:08] <azeem> using java-package is quite easy even for non tech-savy people
[11:08] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[11:09] <HostingGeek> pitti: 9.2 seconds 0_0
[11:09] <ogra> azeem: adding a repo is even easier :)
[11:10] <HostingGeek> ogra: and having a free LGPL vm support up to 1.5 is even easier
[11:10] <azeem> ogra: what are the legal implications of advertising a java repo on the wiki? If you can put the .debs up, they could just as well go into multiverse, no?
[11:10] <fabbione> re
[11:11] <ogra> azeem: i think this should be as possible as mplayer is :)
[11:11] <azeem> ogra: eh, mplayer is GPL
[11:11] <azeem> in theory, at least
[11:11] <ogra> ahh, true...decss isnt....
[11:11] <azeem> decss is in multiverse?
[11:12] <ogra> nope
[11:12] <jdub> no
[11:12] <azeem> pfew, you scared me for a second
[11:12] <jdub> libdvdcss is freely licensed, it's just unshippable :)
[11:12] <azeem> there's a reason the blackdown .debs aren't in Debian's non-free I guess, besides 'nobody cares'
[11:12] <ogra> azeem: so we ave to keep java external too i guess
[11:13] <toresbe> hey, that launchpad thing
[11:13] <toresbe> how do I get an account?
[11:13] <lupus_> patent issues :)
[11:13] <toresbe> bob2: hey :)
[11:14] <ogra> toresbe: create one for the wiki, the apply everywhere i think
[11:14] <bob2> toresbe: sign up on ubuntu.com
[11:14] <ogra> they even
[11:14] <toresbe> yay. Thanks :)
[11:14] <toresbe> eek, need food first
[11:15] <fabbione> mdz: you still around?
[11:15] <azeem> how about you scratch methods 1, 3, 4 and 5 from the 'get Java' wiki page? Having five alternatives to choose from looks pretty confusing
[11:17] <ogra> azeem: people may get upset if you simply scratch their stuff :) but i fully agree....(it is grown over time...)
[11:17] <HostingGeek> what blackdown called in ubuntu
[11:17] <Treenaks> ogra: it's a wiki. you shuold expect your stuff to vanish
[11:17] <ogra> yup...
[11:17] <bob2> HostingGeek: it's not in ubuntu, read the wiki.
[11:18] <azeem> method 0 has about three or four different ways as well
[11:18] <ogra> hehe
[11:18] <ogra> the 0 was my suggestion
[11:18] <bob2> Riddell: what's with the epoch on kynaptic in it's first upload?
[11:19] <azeem> OMG, who decides on those names?
[11:19] <azeem> kynaptic sounds ugh
[11:20] <Treenaks> azeem: it's a KDE app... the name HAS to start with a K
[11:20] <ogra> like something used by a surgeon
[11:20] <mvo_> azeem: has it hit the archive?
[11:20] <bob2> mvo_: yes
[11:20] <azeem> mvo_: is it the same codebase?
[11:21] <mvo_> the backend yes
[11:21] <azeem> eh, is it in the same codebase, or did they fork, I mean
[11:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=167629#msg8
[11:21] <mvo_> there is no there currently :) we keep it compiling but there is not a lot of work on it right now 
[11:21] <azeem> mvo_: IMHO, everything shared between synaptic and kynaptic should go into APT or another library on top of APT
[11:21] <azeem> but I told you already :)
[11:22] <mvo_> azeem: and I agreed already I think :)
[11:22] <azeem> same for stuff shared with aptitude
[11:22] <mvo_> azeem: +1
[11:22] <azeem> mvo_: do you know whether the APT dudes support this?
[11:22] <azeem> i.e. adding convenience stuff done by aptitude/synaptic into it
[11:23] <mvo_> azeem: I think so, but changes need to be in small pieces. people get nervous when there package manager changes to rapidly
[11:23] <azeem> yeah, sure
[11:23] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: yes and it must not have its 2nd letter as a s
[11:25] <HostingGeek> i got a game for ubuntu http://www.ysagoon.com/glob2/index.php/game/welcome?lang=en&frame=no someone remeber it to be included in 2 months the debs are the so are the source packages....
[11:26] <bob2> HostingGeek: maybe you could do some work instead of ordering people around?
[11:26] <bob2> HostingGeek: like even download it and see if the source package is actually complete and builds?
[11:26] <HostingGeek> bob2: i am not ordering anyone
[11:26] <HostingGeek> bob2: it is
[11:27] <bob2> HostingGeek: see, you said something similar about nvu
[11:28] <HostingGeek> bob2: yes the nvu package only had a hacker problem....
[11:28] <bob2> HostingGeek: 'hacker problem'?
[11:29] <HostingGeek> bob2: some changed the source package so it has a md5 mismatch i have emailed linex.org
[11:29] <ogra> Kamion: is it ok, if i start to point people with floppy probs to #5060 ? i would like to have a place to collect the info (i'm also willing to solve it if i have a clue whats wrong but youre the bugowner)
[11:32] <Kamion> ogra: sure, please ask them to dd out the contents of the floppy and put the result somewhere so that we can actually fix the bug
[11:32] <Kamion> ogra: didn't you say you had some affected floppies?
[11:33] <ogra> i had....but i have my floppy drive not here since mataro.....i'll get it back in some days ;)
[11:33] <Treenaks> ogra: you left your floppy drive  in Matar?
[11:33] <ogra> hehe
[11:34] <ogra> nope...i gave the laptop with the drive away before mataro 
[11:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: I did not make germinate more polite, it was like that when you gave it to me :)
[11:38] <Keybuk> maybe I did then
[11:38] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, planning to switch to passthrough, just haven't done any more first-stage-questions work since you implemented it :)
[11:38] <trukulo> ogra: new graveman version
[11:39] <ogra> trukulo: i'll look at it toay ;) thanks
[11:39] <ogra> today
[11:39] <Kamion> mdz: the ipw2200 firmware is in the udebs, although its name has changed
[11:39] <trukulo> :) as always, you have packages for sid in my web if you wanna look at it
[11:39] <ogra> trukulo: i will :)
[11:42] <abelli> hi everybody
[11:42] <abelli> ogra: ciao
[11:43] <ogra> hi abelli
[11:43] <ogra> has anybody seen this: http://www.ubuntu.org/ ?
[11:44] <Kamion> ogra: yes, we knew about that when the name was originally picked
[11:44] <ogra> ah, ok
[11:48] <no0tic> In what daily isos differ from weekly-dvd?
[11:48] <no0tic> Apart from size and number of packs..
[11:50] <Kamion> the daily is a CD including only base, the standard desktop, and a few extra bits
[11:50] <Kamion> the weekly DVD is, well, a DVD including all of main
[11:50] <Kamion> if you say "apart from size and number of packages", then the answer is "nothing", because the differences are size and number of packages. :-)
[11:50] <Kamion> the DVD will probably become an install+live image in the future
[11:51] <no0tic> :)
[11:51] <no0tic> there are also differences in stability?
[11:52] <HostingGeek> phpbb2 package should be removed from universe
[11:52] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: why?
[11:52] <HostingGeek> there possible legal issue with themes right now
[11:52] <Kamion> no0tic: why would there be?
[11:52] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: so just replace the theme
[11:53] <no0tic> Kamion: I don't know :), thank anyway!
[11:54] <Kamion> no0tic: you may see bugs in one that you don't see in the other simply because the weekly DVD is only generated weekly and therefore doesn't have more recent changes
[11:54] <Kamion> I wouldn't characterise that as a difference in stability though
[11:54] <ogra> heh, someone reported a bug about reportbug not working.... with reportbug ...lol
[11:54] <no0tic> Kamion: thanks again
[11:55] <no0tic> :)
[11:55] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: the defualt theme subSilver is under GPL and there are to many themes based on it that have changed the license from GPL to a non-free license this could mean 1000s of people can be sued so untill subsilver changed its license to LGPL or BSD it should be removed
[11:55] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: that's not a problem for phpbb-- if phpbb is GPL
[11:56] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: the copyright holders of subsilver should start sending mail to the infringers
[11:56] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: oops your right
[12:01] <trukulo> Treenaks: do you want a blade?
[12:02] <Treenaks> trukulo: blade?
[12:02] <mjg59> mdz: I'm keen on shipping the appropriate fragment
[12:02] <ogra> Treenaks: one end of a sword ;)
[12:02] <trukulo> Treenaks: for your veins
[12:02] <mjg59> mdz: But the current ibm-acpi that we ship has broken module parameter parsing
[12:02] <trukulo> ogra: umm, i think then i mean a razor
[12:02] <Treenaks> trukulo: I'm not suicidal, thanks
[12:03] <Treenaks> not yet, at least
[12:03] <ogra> heh
[12:03] <fabbione> mjg59: i have your patch applied for -9
[12:03] <fabbione> patches even
[12:03] <fabbione> i forgot that i need to go to the dentist
[12:03] <fabbione> i will upload later today
[12:04] <mjg59> fabbione: Have you applied the swsusp fix from Bugzilla?
[12:04] <fabbione> yes
[12:05] <mjg59> Rock
[12:07] <fabbione> mjg59: can you take a look at -8 and see if any of the acpi patches need to be either updated or dropped?
[12:08] <fabbione> i keep forwarding some stuff you gave me for 2.6.9 but didn't get any update from you
[12:08] <fabbione> just to be sure i didn't miss anything
[12:09] <Treenaks> that's one specialized stick...
[12:09] <thom> it's large and spikey
[12:09] <Treenaks> and rusty?
[12:10] <mjg59> fabbione: I don't think there's anything I sent you that needs to be dropped yet
[12:10] <mjg59> thom: Oops
[12:10] <fabbione> mjg59: cool
[12:10] <thom> mjg59: only 11 instances in acpi-support ;-)
[12:11] <Keybuk> it's amazing how many people get that one wrong
[12:12] <Keybuk> actually, I think GNU test doesn't and bash does?
[12:12] <Treenaks> it should output a warning, like perl does
[12:12] <Keybuk> descent scott% /usr/bin/test "foo" == "bar"
[12:12] <Keybuk> /usr/bin/test: ==: binary operator expected
[12:12] <thom> it's bash, yes
[12:12] <Keybuk> bash is the First Evil.
[12:12] <Treenaks> Keybuk: tied with zsh
[12:13] <mjg59> bash supports it
[12:13] <Keybuk> Treenaks: yeah, but zsh doesn't even *claim* POSIX compliance
[12:13] <mjg59> And all the acpi-support stuff is /bin/bash 
[12:13] <Kamion> does it need to be /bin/bash for any other reasons?
[12:14] <mjg59> Kamion: Nope
[12:14] <Keybuk> mjg59: gah, you're worse than Colin "I want to write essential things in Perl" Watson
[12:14] <mjg59> Haha
[12:14] <thom> mjg59: ... except the bits that aren't :-)
[12:16] <mjg59> thom: Pff. All the affected ones are.
[12:25] <azeem> packages from contrib are not getting automatically built for multiverse, right?
[12:33] <seb128> elmo: drivel sync please
[12:35] <Treenaks> seb128: any reason why evolution isn't built with --enable-plugins=all (instead of just --enable-plugins, which means --enable-plugins=base)?
[12:38] <seb128> Treenaks: gni ?
[12:38] <seb128> Treenaks: you could at least look on the build before asking, --enable-plugins means all
[12:39] <seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/evolution/2.1.3.2-0ubuntu1/evolution_2.1.3.2-0ubuntu1_20050113-1353-i386-successful
[12:39] <seb128> 	Plugins:	  yes (all)
[12:50] <mvo_> Mithrandir: update-notifier with upgrade-hook support is uploaded
[12:52] <ogra> hmm, ubuntulinux.org seems down
[12:53] <seb128> mvo_: have you get the new backtrace for the update-notifier crash ?
[12:53] <mvo_> seb128: yes
[12:53] <mvo_> thanks
[12:54] <seb128> mvo_: any idea on the bug ?
[12:54] <seb128> np
[12:54] <seb128> let me know if I should add debugging stuff in the code or something
[12:54] <mvo_> seb128: can you reproduce it? 
[12:54] <seb128> no
[12:54] <seb128> it happens sometime that's all
[12:55] <seb128> no clue on how to force it ...
[12:55] <thom> ogra: looks ok here
[12:55] <mvo_> same for me. I added even more saveguards and I implemented a "destroy" callback so that when the panel is restarted, update-notifier kills itself and comes up clean again
[12:56] <ogra> thom: hmm, strange....maybe a routing prob of my provider...everything else works....
[12:58] <ogra> hmm....10  vlan202.rsm-r-1.lon2.mnet.net.uk (62.140.218.35)  75.205 ms  76.512 ms  78.205 ms
[12:58] <ogra> 11  * * *
[12:58] <Treenaks> seb128: hm... it does not mean all when I build from source... I'll look again
[12:59] <ogra> btw...even windows ships traceroute by default....
[12:59] <seb128> Treenaks: sure, the package doesn't build from sources
[12:59] <ogra> should really be in main for failure tracking
[12:59] <seb128> :p
[12:59] <thom> ogra: we ship mtr by default, *shrug*
[01:00] <ogra> ho, ok.....(so i'm to "old school") *g*
[01:00] <seb128> Treenaks: why not using the package ?
[01:00] <Kamion> base: * iputils-tracepath  # more secure sort of traceroute, will put compatibility symblink in for traceroute users
[01:00] <Kamion> maybe the symlink got forgotten about
[01:00] <ogra> yup, looks like
[01:01] <Treenaks> seb128: nevermind
[01:01] <Kamion> supported: * traceroute             # we have iputils-tracepath in base, this is only for real traceroute lovers
[01:01] <seb128> Treenaks: let me know if there is something to fix in the package so it can be fixed for everybody ...
[01:02] <thom> hey jeff! welcome to the madhouse :-)
[01:03] <Kamion> jbailey: welcome :-)
[01:03] <jbailey> thom: Thanks. =)
[01:03] <jbailey> Kamion: Heya, thanks. =)
[01:03] <seb128> hey jbailey !!
[01:04] <jbailey> M. sb! =)
[01:04] <mvo_> hi jbailey! welcome :)
[01:04] <jordi> jeeeeff :)
[01:04] <jbailey> 'lo mvo. =)  Jordi!
[01:05] <Treenaks> seb128: well.. I was trying to figure out why the new-mail-notify plugin isn't included in the binary (while it is available in the source)..
[01:06] <seb128> Treenaks: warning: dbus-glib-1 was not found, new-mail-notify plugin will not be built.
[01:06] <seb128> that's it
[01:07] <seb128> (search "inotify" in the build log :p)
[01:07] <Treenaks> seb128: shall I file a bug on that missing build-dep? :)
[01:07] <seb128> if you want
[01:07] <Treenaks> OK
[01:07] <seb128> I'll probably fix it today but still useful to have a reminder
[01:08] <seb128> Treenaks: thanks for noticing
[01:10] <Treenaks> seb128: #5587
[01:10] <seb128> ok
[01:11] <Treenaks> seb128: I noticed because I'm jhbuilding my own stuff on suse here -- and the list of plugins was different
[01:11] <seb128> is there other differences ?
[01:12] <Treenaks> well, audio-inline, but that's in the bug report as well
[01:12] <Treenaks> but otherwise it "feels" mostly the same now :)
[01:12] <seb128> this one need gstreamer yep
[03:30] <pitti> sivang: I'm back, btw
[03:30] <pitti> sivang: trouble with my net connection
[03:30] <pitti> seb128_: sivang wants to work on g-s-t a bit
[03:31] <pitti> seb128_: since I want to teach him some patch'n'package, would you mind if I upload the next version?
[03:31] <seb128_> pitti: ?
[03:31] <pitti> seb128_: profile support needs to be tweaked a bit
[03:31] <pitti> seb128_: he shall prepare the package under my supervision and if everything works, you or me would upload it
[03:31] <seb128_> pitti: feel free to upload and change whatever you want, I've nothing like "that *MY* package" :p
[03:31] <pitti> seb128_: would that be fine for you?
[03:32] <thom> seb128_: so we can't call you marillat? damn.
[03:32] <seb128_> ah ah
[03:32] <pitti> seb128_: it's gnome, and if it breaks, the folks will blame YOU :-))
[03:32] <seb128_> pitti: I'll get back to you in this case, don't worry :)
[03:35] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ping
[03:43] <fabbione> Kamion: i think that the problem on booting on that powermac7,3 is as benh said a "ppc64 kernel problem"
[03:43] <Kamion> fabbione: the reporter says that it works on Debian now, and Debian does not use ppc64
[03:43] <Kamion> therefore I'm simply asking if we're up to date on patches
[03:43] <fabbione> yes but i am uptodated with ppc patches
[03:43] <Kamion> if so, the bug can be closed
[03:44] <fabbione> yeah but i wonder why it doesn...
[03:44] <Kamion> it hasn't been reported on recent hoary, it was a warty report
[03:44] <Kamion> warty was definitely out of date with regard to some required patches
[03:45] <amu> someone could review hotplug fix? http://amu.debian.net/tmp/hotplug.diff
[03:45] <fabbione> Kamion: ok... i will close it
[03:46] <fabbione> is anybody working on OOo?
[03:46] <fabbione> i need to do a port upload....
[03:46] <amu> fabbione: haggai i guess ;)  
[03:47] <fabbione> amu: i mean.. right now to do an ubuntu upload :-)
[03:47] <robertj> sweetness
[03:47] <robertj> Tor Lillquest got hired by NDS to hack on win32 stuff
[03:48] <robertj> dbus porting then evolution
[03:49] <haggai> fabbione: no I'm working on oo2
[03:49] <fabbione> haggai: ok.
[03:49] <fabbione> haggai: i only need to fix a MANIFEST file.. so it shouldn't be too complicate :-)
[03:49] <robertj> haggai: is that the official abbreviation ;)
[03:50] <haggai> fabbione: ah, k.  I dropped those for ver 2 because I rewrote the packaging scripts to use the upstream maintained filelists
[03:50] <haggai> robertj: I don't think there is an official one
[03:51] <robertj> I need to check out the win32 builds again
[03:52] <robertj> last time I checked database had just gone in
[04:02] <Kamion> none of that should be needed with a POSIX shell
[04:06] <fabbione> mjg59: 5591 :-)
[04:09] <mjg59> fabbione: His DSDT is fucked
[04:10] <fabbione> mjg59: do you want to explain that to him? ;)
[04:10] <mjg59> Keybuk: Can you take a look at the video options in /etc/default/acpi-support, switch them all off and then try swsusp again?
[04:13] <sladen> fabbione: already have
[04:14] <Keybuk> I tried them all
[04:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: And still the crash on vt switch?
[04:15] <Keybuk> yeah
[04:15] <mjg59> Wow. Your machine is less functional than the craptop.
[04:15] <Keybuk> it *looks* like it's X.org bailing out
[04:15] <mjg59> Does it work if you suspend from the console?
[04:15] <Keybuk> your scripts don't even suspend if I do it from the console
[04:15] <Keybuk> they tear down dhcp, and then don't do anything else
[04:15] <mjg59> Make very sure that you're using the acpi-support from horay and not my one
[04:15] <Keybuk> I am, 0.13
[04:16] <mjg59> thom: Can we shift the vbesave script to the beginning of multiuser?
[04:16] <thom> certainly
[04:17] <thom> ... why? :-)
[04:17] <mjg59> thom: That way, when it breaks someone's computer, we can get them to boot in single user mode...
[04:18] <thom> ah, true
[04:26] <fabbione> Keybuk: ?
[04:26] <Keybuk> oh, just running apache through hct
[04:26] <fabbione> ah cool
[04:26] <Keybuk> have been for half an hour or so now
[04:26] <ogra> does anybody know how long a typical "elmo second" is ?
[04:27] <ogra> he said "wait a sec" ......
[04:27] <Keybuk> ogra: about two to three centuries, why?
[04:27] <smurfix> ogra: There is no such thing IME
[04:27] <ogra> ....four hours ago
[04:27] <smurfix> ogra: he didn't say he'd be done afterwards, now did he?
[04:27] <ogra> smurfix: nope :)
[04:28] <Keybuk> I appear to have lied when I said it imports ok though, because the version in hoary tickles a little bug that I just fixed
[04:28] <ogra> Keybuk: because i have a bunch of universe packages that need rebuild and would like to upload then
[04:28] <ogra> them
[04:28] <Keybuk> I always feel happier about code once I've found and fixed some bugs in it
[04:29] <fabbione> it was rejected...
[04:29] <fabbione> ops
[04:30] <Keybuk> fotfl ... apache--suexec-of-death--1.3.33
[04:31] <Keybuk> you know there's a bunch of patches in here that don't apply?
[04:31] <thom> the apache* packages have some wonderful patch names
[04:31] <fabbione> all of them do
[04:31] <Keybuk> 010_dbm_part_2_the_revenge
[04:31] <fabbione> if applied in proper order
[04:32] <Keybuk> ah, you see, we can't represent that in Arch
[04:32] <fabbione> DOH!
[04:32] <Keybuk> we can represent patch 2 depends on patch 1 which depends on base
[04:32] <Keybuk> all the way up to arbitrary patch N
[04:33] <Keybuk> what we can't represent is patch 3 depends on patch 2 and patch 1, but patch 2 *does not* depend on patch 1
[04:33] <Keybuk> because that would require branches with multiple parents
[04:33] <Keybuk> and lifeless goes interesting colours if you say things like that
[04:34] <elmo> giggle
[04:35] <fabbione> happyness
[04:35] <Keybuk> debian/patches/ssl/004_eapi.patch.patch/pkg.eapi/eapi.patch
[04:35] <fabbione> ok.. skip apache 
[04:35] <Keybuk> meh, why is there a patch whose whole purpose in life is to add another patch to the tree? :p
[04:35] <fabbione> if arch can't handle i will
[04:36] <fabbione> becasue it is required? ;)
[04:36] <Keybuk> couldn't you just, oh, I don't know, put the patch in the tree, instead of patching it into the tree? <g>
[04:37] <elmo> Keybuk: dude, can I ask for a couple of packages?
[04:37] <Keybuk> elmo: if you like
[04:37] <robertj> anyone know how the A05 Bios does these days?
[04:37] <fabbione> elmo: i think my OOo upload was lost... at least no emails back
[04:38] <sivang> Keybuk: Martin Pitt award? Does he have strange practices for source packages? :-) How strange?
[04:38] <Keybuk> WARNING:Inventory.1.Inventory.11:Couldn't inspect 'debian/scripts/fix.source.patch'
[04:38] <Keybuk> I'm going to guess that's not really a patch file :p
[04:39] <robertj> I guess I'll find out
[04:39] <elmo> fabbione: someone finally made me deal with sparc, so jennifer's cron job is disabled ATM ;-)
[04:39] <elmo> ogra: and sorry, I got sidetracked by some other stuff, I will try and do it RSN.. well basically once the archive comes back
[04:39] <Keybuk> sivang: just twisted, things patching things that don't deserve to be
[04:39] <elmo> Keybuk: one of them is binutils tho - is that too big?
[04:39] <fabbione> elmo: AHAHA COOL!
[04:39] <Keybuk> elmo: I thought binutils was relatively tiny?
[04:39] <ogra> elmo: great, thanks....ever thought about a secretary ? ;)
[04:40] <thom> since there's no way the cvs import will happen in my lifetime
[04:40] <Keybuk> thom: well, that applies to Apache too
[04:40] <Keybuk> but I can never resist the opportunity to laugh at a Modernist source package
[04:40] <elmo> Keybuk: hmm, 86Mb unpacked source... the CVS tree is, err... interesting, it has a daily auto-commit, which I suspect fucks with someone's head, but I don't know if HCT cares
[04:40] <thom> i should check if they're importing cvs or svn
[04:41] <elmo> and it's had public CVS for like 7-8 years too
[04:41] <Keybuk> elmo: heh, HCT won't care ... importd might explode into little pieces
[04:41] <elmo> ogra: I asked for one the other day, but was DENIED
[04:41] <Keybuk> size for HCT is number of tarballs multiplied by number of patches
[04:41] <ogra> elmo: bah.....
[04:42] <ogra> elmo: i would vote for getting you one :)
[04:42] <elmo> Keybuk: okay, I have 17 patches, but only one tar ball
[04:42] <elmo> and they're very simple patches, no ordering to them
[04:42] <Keybuk> WARNING:Inventory.69.Inventory.70:Couldn't inspect 'patches/apply_demangler'
[04:42] <Keybuk> *snigger* ... that's not a patch, eh? :p
[04:49] <sivang> does anybody mind if I ask who/what is HCT?
[04:49] <sivang> :)
[04:49] <mjg59> fabbione: Did you say you'd uploaded -9?
[04:50] <Keybuk> sivang: weren't you awake the morning I demo'd it?
[04:51] <ogra> Keybuk: the BOF where everybody was asleep ?
[04:51] <sivang> Keybuk: I don't think so, was in on the first/second week?
[04:51] <Keybuk> second week
[04:51] <sivang> Keybuk: wasn't there on second week :-/
[04:53] <Keybuk> ah, is basically a tool for managing source packages in tla/baz/bzr
[04:54] <sivang> Keybuk: bzr = ?
[04:54] <lamont> seb128: is it safe to dist-upgrade this morning?
[04:54] <Keybuk> sivang: bazaar
[04:54] <seb128> lamont: should be, yep
[04:54] <lamont> 332 upgraded, 17 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[04:54] <lamont> hrm
[04:55] <sivang> Keybuk: and baz is like the web frontned?
[04:56] <Kamion> $ type -p baz
[04:56] <Kamion> /usr/bin/baz
[04:57] <Kamion> lamont: any idea what's taking ubuntu-meta so long to build on i386/ia64?
[04:57] <lamont> sivang: baz is a replacement for tla, hct makes baz do the right thing.
[04:57] <lamont> Kamion: checking
[04:58] <elmo> hmm, fabbione you made jennifer cry
[04:58] <elmo> ogra: okay, first of all - what email did you ask me to whitelist?
[04:58] <fabbione> elmo: why?
[04:58] <elmo> I think I asked you when you weren't around, and then you replied when I wasn't around
[04:58] <ogra> hostmaster@grawert.net
[04:58] <jordi> fabbione must have a big one!
[04:58] <elmo> fabbione: dunno, your oo.o is ERROR.. checking now whic
[04:59] <fabbione> AH
[04:59] <lamont> elmo.  floe. not. happy.
[04:59] <elmo> err, not happy how?
[04:59] <lamont> email
[05:00] <fabbione> elmo: i did the usual upload procedure.. are you sure it didn't fail on the gpg check? (since i used the new key and so on)
[05:01] <ogra> elmo: i sent it to upload@ubuntulinux.org (hostmaster@grawert.net)
[05:01] <elmo> ah
[05:01] <elmo> fabbione: nah, it was err, PEBKAC
[05:01] <elmo> I broke it with the MOTU changes
[05:01] <sivang> Keybuk: so tla must have hct to do the right thing? s/tla/baz. so hct is a backend?
[05:01] <ogra> elmo: ahh, ok
[05:02] <thom> hct is a specialised frontend
[05:02] <elmo> hmm, who was the other MOTU/universe uploader who got approved recently?
[05:02] <ogra> Riddel
[05:02] <ogra> +l
[05:03] <elmo> yep, got him, and haggai and smurfix (tho the latter two are full maintainers)
[05:03] <Kamion> sivang: you're taking too much from Keybuk's "right thing" - tla/baz work on their own, but hct is a wrapper around them to make the system easier/saner to use for package management
[05:03] <sivang> Kamion: ok, thanks for your clarifications. 
[05:04] <ogra> elmo: i think i'm the only one sticking with universe for the start...even riddell will get access to main tomorrow (i wanna practise a bit before breaking main ;))
[05:05] <elmo> ogra: okay, whitelisted.  next question, what did you upload?
[05:05] <ogra> elmo: i tried nicotine 
[05:05] <elmo> ogra: that got rejected because you didn't make the distribution 'hoary'
[05:05] <ogra> elmo: just a dependency change to python2.4 shouldnt break anything
[05:05] <elmo> ogra: you've seen the wiki page on uploads, right?
[05:05] <ogra> ah, ok...
[05:05] <ogra> yup
[05:05] <elmo> ok
[05:06] <Kamion> lamont: #4940> hm, interesting ... does it work for you too?
[05:06] <ogra> anything i missed ?
[05:06] <elmo> ogra: in the changelog, you need to say 'hoary' not 'unstable'
[05:06] <elmo> gnupg (1.4.0-1) unstable; urgency=low
[05:06] <ogra> elmo: yup, understood
[05:06] <elmo>                    ^--- thereish
[05:06] <fabbione> elmo: do you want me to upload again or will you fix it manually?
[05:06] <fabbione> elmo: both works for me
[05:07] <elmo> fabbione: oo.o?  no, don't worry, ERROR stuff doesn't get rejected, it just hate mails me and stays in queue/unchecked
[05:07] <elmo> ogra: okay, try reuploading then..
[05:07] <fabbione> elmo: ok
[05:09] <ogra> elmo: done :)
[05:09] <robertj> has there been any more talk about whether mono can/will go into base if f-spot & beagle catch on?
[05:10] <Keybuk> s/base/desktop/ :)
[05:10] <robertj> err yeah
[05:11] <Kamion> well, jdub asked for mono to be taken back out of desktop until beagle was there ...
[05:11] <sladen> fabbione: what hotplug/usb is likely to be different between a stock kernel.org kernel and the Ubuntu patchset.  Somebody here has decided to roll his own k.org one and is wondering why nothing automounts
[05:11] <robertj> Kamion: is there an ETA on beagle 1.0?
[05:12] <thom> it's not even a case of 1.0, just sufficiently supportable
[05:12] <tseng> alot of mono sutff lags behind upstream by alot in debian proper, unfortunately
[05:12] <robertj> I'm just got this fear that it will remain Linux's most envied theoretical study of data indexing
[05:12] <tseng> not least mono itself
[05:12] <fabbione> sladen: i don't follow you...... what do you mean?
[05:13] <ogra> YEAH !
[05:13] <ogra> finally
[05:13] <fabbione> Accepted nicotine 1.0.8rc1-1.1 (source)
[05:13] <fabbione> :)
[05:14] <Keybuk> that just begs for a niquitin-cq upload :p
[05:14] <Kamion> robertj: I have no idea
[05:14] <ogra> sivang: you will be next, wont you ?
[05:14] <Keybuk> Provides: nicotine
[05:14] <thom> heh
[05:15] <sivang> ogra:I hope so ;-)
[05:15] <Keybuk> Depends: will-power
[05:15] <Keybuk> Suggests: advice-from-your-gp
[05:16] <ogra> Keybuk: nicotine-cq ?
[05:16] <sivang> -gp ?
[05:16] <Keybuk> ogra: niquitin-cq is a popular brand of quit-smoking nicotine patch things in the UK
[05:16] <ogra> lol
[05:17] <lamont> Kamion: 4940,etc - fixing the ubuntu-meta meta-problem, then I'll lookl
[05:17] <Kamion> sivang: abbreviation for "General Practitioner", i.e. doctor who treats general problems in their own practice rather than working in a hospital
[05:18] <Kamion> lamont: fundamental buildd problem?
[05:18] <sivang> Kamion: I'm always in for some more english abbrivations knowlegede :-)
[05:19] <Kamion> ogra: you don't need to say NMU for Ubuntu uploads by the way; we don't really have such a thing
[05:19] <Kamion> ogra: erk, you uploaded -1.1 to Ubuntu based on a Debian -1?
[05:19] <ogra> Kamion: i suspected that, but wanted my frst one without lintian warnings ;)
[05:19] <Kamion> that's a bogus lintian warning for Ubuntu
[05:20] <ogra> now i know ....
[05:20] <Kamion> ogra: Ubuntu uploads like that should be -1ubuntu1
[05:20] <ogra> even universe ? 
[05:20] <Kamion> ogra: otherwise if somebody uploads -1.1 to Debian then they'll clash
[05:20] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[05:20] <ogra> i thought this suffix was for main only
[05:20] <Kamion> it's a function of where the changes are made rather than of whether the package is supported
[05:21] <Kamion> nah, it's a version namespacing thing
[05:21] <ogra> ok...i'll make it -1ubuntu1 then :)
[05:21] <Kamion> too late now, but you'll know for the next package
[05:22] <ogra> hmm isnt -1ubuntu1 > 1.1 ?
[05:22] <Kamion> $ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.8rc1-1.1 lt 1.0.8rc1-1ubuntu1; echo $?
[05:22] <Kamion> 1
[05:22] <Kamion> no, it's not
[05:22] <ogra> ah, ok, i see
[05:23] <Kamion> that's the reason we settled on that version numbering scheme: it means that Debian uploads always jump past ours in version numbers
[05:24] <Keybuk> '.' > [a-z]  in dpkg terms
[05:24] <ogra> hmm, and on sync from sid the packages go in 1:1 ? (i.e. i had to change from unstable to hoary) 
[05:24] <Keybuk> it doesn't use ASCII, remember
[05:24] <ogra> Keybuk: trying to keep that in mind :)
[05:25] <ogra> hmm .... so MOTU has to touch _all_ 15000 packages to become hoary ?
[05:26] <zul> fabbione: is the kernel team wiki page up yet?
[05:27] <fabbione> zul: no sorry. i have been really busy
[05:27] <fabbione> zul: max tomorrow it will be up
[05:27] <zul> fabbione: ok no probs
[05:27] <Kamion> ogra: no, if local changes haven't been made to them in Ubuntu then they will be synced automatically
[05:27] <Kamion> it's only merges that you lot have to take care of
[05:27] <fabbione> and talking about kernel.. let's upload -9 with another 3 bug fixed
[05:27] <ogra> ah, i already was doubting the system....
[05:27] <lamont> Kamion: not so fundamental as thurough. :-(
[05:28] <lamont> Kamion: I didn't break it, but then I didn't fix it completely like I said I would either.
[05:28] <Keybuk> heh, pitti shut down his box
[05:28] <Keybuk> naaaaaah
[05:28] <ogra> heh
[05:28] <thom> i blame the original developer
[05:29] <Keybuk> thom: as do I
[05:29] <lamont> Kamion: I expect it's the scsi vs ide issue...
[05:29] <Kamion> lamont: that messes with my head
[05:29] <Keybuk> I fear our Security Team lead using unmaintained software
[05:29] <lamont> Kamion: if I _must_, I can reboot the local mirror/squid/web/whatever proxy to verify that things work on my ide i2k.
[05:29] <lamont> the zx2000 is scsi, iirc.
[05:30] <Kamion> lamont: nah, don't worry
[05:31] <lamont> Kamion: k
[05:31] <lamont> brb
[05:36] <Keybuk> thom: the best ones are Keybuk forgetting to escape \n when writing log files, so you can insert arbitrary lines into the log which dircproxy doesn't expect and exploit them when the client connects :p
[05:41] <seb128> elmo: drivel and planner sync please
[05:42] <elmo> seb128: done
[05:42] <seb128> thanks
[05:42] <jordi> mvo_: ping2!
[05:43] <thom> Keybuk: heh!
[05:44] <mvo_> jordi: pong
[05:44] <Keybuk> I'm actually quite amazed it's stood up this long though, you'd think given it's prevelance it would be subject to massive attack by now
[05:45] <jordi> mvo_: hmm, I merged ca.po I sent with synaptic.pot, and I got a zillion things to update.
[05:45] <jordi> hadn't you merged the files already?
[05:45] <mvo_> jordi: I didn't commited a "make update-po" yet I guess
[05:46] <jordi> mvo_: included in the fuzzy strings, there are some that contain tabs. It is recommended not to do that if possible.
[05:46] <elmo> Keybuk: dude, why is it in debian?
[05:46] <jordi> mvo_: aha. well, I'm updating.
[05:46] <jordi> msgid "\t%s %s but %s is to be installed"
[05:47] <jordi> stuff like this needs a translator comment to explain what the phrase might look like
[05:47] <Keybuk> elmo: *shrug* I don't care about it anymore, and I don't know how to write l33t exploits to find out whether the silly bugs were actually exploitable
[05:48] <Keybuk> I don't even remember what most of them are anymore, it's been that long since I touched it
[05:48] <Keybuk> so it would be a "remove foo, because I wrote it when I was a kid and couldn't code worth a monkey" :p
[05:49] <thom> how much is a monkey worth </curious>
[05:49] <mvo_> jordi: most of them should have one already, let me check
[05:49] <Keybuk> thom: 500, you should know that
[05:51] <thom> ah
[05:51] <thom> uh, holy crap map.search.ch is cool
[05:52] <jordi> mvo_: I don't see them
[05:52] <Treenaks> thom: HOLY CRAP
[05:52] <mvo_> jordi: you got me ... this particular code-path has no translator comments :(
[05:53] <Treenaks> thom: coolness
[05:53] <Riddell> bob2: there was a previous upload of kynaptic (that didn't compile) using a different number scheme
[05:53] <Keybuk> oh, one of the really silly bugs is that dircproxy holds proxied dcc files in memory -- so if you can send a really big file fast enough, their OOM killer takes out most of their machine :p
[05:53] <mvo_> jordi: I'll have a look next
[05:53] <mvo_> jordi: just leave them out for now
[05:54] <thom> keybuk: swwwweeeet!
[05:54] <jordi> mvo_: okie
[05:57] <chrisa> Keybuk: This program sounds amazing
[05:58] <robertj> whee
[05:58] <haggai> elmo: is there some sort of limit on the upload queue?  I keep getting disconnected while uploading the OOo2 tarball
[05:58] <robertj> power management is happy on my laptop at last
[05:58] <lamont> Mithrandir: and linux86
[05:59] <elmo> haggai: what are you using to upload?
[05:59] <haggai> elmo: I started off using dput and now I tried with lftp
[06:00] <elmo> hmm, are you uploading just the .tar.gz or the .dsc and .diff.gz too?
[06:00] <haggai> well, trying all of them
[06:00] <haggai> dput uploaded the dsc and then the tar.gz
[06:01] <haggai> with lftp I had the .diff first, then the .dsc and then the .tar
[06:01] <jordi> mvo_: #: gtk/window_find.glade.h:9
[06:01] <jordi> msgid "Origion"
[06:03] <lamont> thom: hope you're happy, now. :-)
[06:05] <mvo_> jordi: thanks! I ran make update-po and commited, can you please update?
[06:06] <elmo> haggai: hmm, this may be a (bad) bug in poppy
[06:06] <elmo> please try just the orig.tar.gz
[06:07] <thom> lamont: cool
[06:08] <haggai> elmo: ok
[06:13] <lamont> thom: I feel so dirty, though.
[06:14] <lamont> elmo: they made me do it.
[06:14] <lamont> do we have a bz for universe yet?
[06:14] <lamont> hrm.. actually, I could just file this one against debian.
[06:14] <elmo> do what?
[06:15] <lamont> elmo: upload mcs to universe
[06:15] <lamont> it's ftbfs
[06:15] <lamont> see also the whole discussion about mcs moving back to universe, etc.
[06:17] <lamont> heh.  already filed.  #290234
[06:23] <Kamion> fabbione: um, what's happened to the Packages file in your archive?
[06:24] <fabbione> Kamion: i removed them because i am fixing the signs on the changes and upload to jackass
[06:24] <fabbione> elmo did his big black magic
[06:24] <fabbione> :-)
[06:25] <Kamion> ah
[06:25] <fabbione> Kamion: if you want i can regenerate them.. but i already uploaded and removed one package
[06:25] <Kamion> it's ok, I'll figure out how not to disappear them from debootstrap
[06:26] <fabbione> ops.. hold on...
[06:26] <fabbione> i will remake them in a sec
[06:26] <fabbione> it doesn't take more than an ssh ;)
[06:29] <haggai> elmo: it restarted again :(
[06:29] <fabbione> 45% of .changes are (re)signed
[06:31] <fabbione> Kamion: done
[06:31] <Kamion> thanks
[06:31] <Kamion> let me know when it's in the archive proper and I can start using that :)
[06:32] <fabbione> Kamion: it will take sometime before it's in the archive....
[06:36] <elmo> haggai: gar
[06:36] <elmo> haggai: is there somewhere I can download this to test myself?
[06:36] <haggai> elmo: I'm just uploading to a machine with a better net connection
[06:40] <elmo> there's definitely no upload limits, which I guess means zope's ftpd is timing you out or something.. or your end is timing out
[06:41] <fabbione> elmo: 51% ;)
[06:50] <jordi> msgid "The following problems where found on your system:"
[06:50] <jordi> mvo_: that too
[06:52] <mvo_> jordi: this one is the header of a new generic message box that is popt up when apt complains about problems. it usually is a error that a server is not reachable or that a packages list file is missing. it can also contain errors that happend during installing (like when a packages tries to override a file owned by another one). I found hard to find a good generic header for this dialog
[06:53] <Kamion> mvo_: "were" is misspelt as "where"
[06:54] <mvo_> Kamion: ups :) thanks
[06:56] <mvo_> jordi: fixed
[07:14] <pitti> lamont: here?
[07:14] <lamont> pitti: yo
[07:14] <pitti> lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpack/
[07:15] <pitti> lamont: the complete set is now there
[07:15] <pitti> lamont: that means
[07:15] <pitti> TIME FOR THE STRIPTEASE
[07:15] <lamont> lol
[07:15] <pitti> lamont: so can you enable pkgstriptranslations on the buildds now?
[07:15] <lamont> then
[07:15] <pitti> cool, thanks!
[07:15] <lamont> wanna make mdz say 'go'
[07:15] <lamont> ?
[07:15] <lamont> or just do it?
[07:15] <lamont> brb 
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: please say "go"
[07:16] <mdz_> pitti: your mum
[07:17] <pitti> fake_mdz, aka elmo: why my mum?
[07:17] <elmo> hmm, you clearly didn't get enough jdub exposure in mataro
[07:18] <pitti> elmo: well, at least I did not understand all of his jokes
[07:20] <pitti> lamont: nah, that's okay. mdz already said to me "say go whenever you feel like" :-)
[07:27] <Kamion> is atmel-firmware too proprietary for restricted?
[07:29] <lamont> pitti: is your stuff bound for the archive?
[07:29] <pitti> lamont: "bound"?
[07:29] <Kamion> its licence basically seems to be "only distribute in object code format as .h or binary image" + standard BSD conditions + no endorsement
[07:29] <Kamion> which I thought was ok for restricted
[07:29] <lamont> pitti: due to be uploaded/been uploaded
[07:29] <pitti> lamont: It shall be on people.ubuntu.com for a while for testing
[07:29] <pitti> lamont: I think I will upload it in a week or so
[07:30] <lamont> ok.  If I snatch it and we use it, then your upload has to be a higher version...
[07:31] <pitti> lamont: no problem, I will regenerated it from scratch anyway
[07:31] <pitti> lamont: (to get up-to-date base packages)
[07:31] <pitti> lamont: s/regenerate from scratch/update/ , probably
[07:32] <lamont> ok
[07:32] <lamont> btw, arch-all, yes?
[07:32] <elmo> btw, anyone used dar, or any of the other newish (i.e. not amanda era) backup programs?
[07:32] <Kamion> elmo: can you regenerate the Task: ubuntu-desktop headers please?
[07:32] <Kamion> they need to include dbus-1 now ...
[07:32] <trukulo> Kamion, i use atmel project from berlios, that is gpl
[07:32] <pitti> lamont: yes, Arch: all
[07:34] <elmo> Kamion: more urgently than the daily cron job?
[07:34] <Kamion> trukulo: link? (note this is for an end-user friend, not for myself; and nevertheless my question still stands)
[07:34] <lamont> pitti: _which_ package do I want from that pile?
[07:34] <sabdfl> Kamion: is the db-h dirname for open deb bugs standard?
[07:34] <Kamion> elmo: oh, couldn't remember if that's daily or not
[07:34] <sabdfl> what's the equivalent for the archive?
[07:34] <trukulo> kamion: http://at76c503a.berlios.de/
[07:34] <Kamion> trukulo: that's USB, the card in question is PCI
[07:34] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, 'tis
[07:35] <elmo> tho I still need to update germinate. meh.
[07:35] <pitti> lamont: I write the announcement mail now
[07:35] <lamont> pitti: let me rephrase that - which package do I need to install in the chroots, etc.
[07:35] <Kamion> sabdfl: db-h and archive are what debbugs CVS has
[07:35] <sabdfl> ok thanks Kamion
[07:35] <pitti> lamont: not the language packs
[07:35] <trukulo> Kamion, ah, ok
[07:35] <pitti> lamont: pkgstriptranslations only
[07:35] <Kamion> sabdfl: I'm not sure I'd call it standard given that I think Debian's the only project to export its debbugs spool by rsync :-)
[07:35] <lamont> pitti: that's what I thought you were pointing me at... :-)
[07:35] <pitti> lamont: pkgstriptranslations is already in main
[07:35] <lamont> pkgstriptranslations is current in the archive?
[07:35] <pitti> lamont: no, sorry
[07:36] <pitti> lamont: that was just to show that the language packs are now ready
[07:36] <sabdfl> Kamion: best kind of standard there is ;-)
[07:36] <Kamion> trukulo: (er, cardbus, that is)
[07:36] <pitti> lamont: yes, pkgstriptranslations is already in main
[07:36] <lamont> ok
[07:37] <trukulo> Kamion, so, don't know, my wireless is usb
[07:37] <lamont> Kamion: next pass at debootstrap, could you add pkgstriptranslations to hoary.buildd?
[07:37] <Kamion> lamont: sure
[07:37] <trukulo> and it's _very_ bad
[07:37] <lamont> thanks
[07:38] <pitti> lamont: the conffile got a bit bigger, but still the only necessary change should be to actually enable it
[07:38] <pitti> lamont: however, you can also change the tarball suffix if you want
[07:43] <sabdfl> in python, how do I print a '.' without a newline? to create that "i'm doing something still" effect?
[07:44] <lamont> file.write(".")
[07:44] <sabdfl> lamont: thanks
[07:44] <lamont> where file might be sys.__stdout__... :-)
[07:44] <Kamion> sabdfl: or 'print ".",'
[07:45] <Kamion> (with the trailing comma)
[07:45] <sabdfl> Kamion: cool, thanks
[07:45] <Kamion> I don't know what the buffering implications are though
[07:46] <lamont> Kamion: I like your's better.. :-)  mine always felt wrong somehow.
[07:46] <lamont> probably the same buffering issues, I expect.
[07:48] <Kamion> hm, damnit, 'print ".",' still leaves a trailing space
[07:48] <Treenaks> I saw the solution in the nutshell book
[07:49] <Treenaks> *looking*
[07:49] <Kamion> looks like sys.stdout.write(".") is easier after all, silly python
[07:50] <Treenaks> Kamion: the comma trick should not print a space
[07:50] <Treenaks> Kamion: according to this book
[07:51] <elmo> doesn't here?
[07:53] <Kamion> Treenaks: try it twice
[07:53] <Kamion> Treenaks: also see http://docs.python.org/ref/print.html
[07:53] <Kamion> "A space is written before each object is (converted and) written, unless the output system believes it is positioned at the beginning of a line."
[07:55] <Treenaks> Kamion: so the write-option is the best..
[07:55] <Treenaks> hmm
[07:56] <pitti> mdz: here?
[07:58] <elmo> Kamion: boggle, that's bad crack
[07:59] <Kamion> s'pose it's totally unchangeable now because a billion programs rely on it
[08:06] <haggai> elmo: finally,it's up: http://www.credativ.com/~cha/openoffice.org2_1.9.66.orig.tar.gz
[08:07] <fabbione> that looks scary
[08:07] <fabbione> elmo: less than 90 .changes left for signing :-)
[08:13] <T-Bone> hey fabbione!
[08:13] <fabbione> hey T-Bone 
[08:14] <lamont> fabbione: how soon do we package 2.6.11-rc*?
[08:14] <fabbione> lamont: we won't i am afraid... UVF
[08:14] <T-Bone> fabbione: so, did you find bitchslapping me was productive? :^)
[08:15] <lamont> fabbione: doh
[08:15] <fabbione> only if there is a big request for it
[08:15] <T-Bone> lol
[08:15] <fabbione> lamont: well i already backported a lot of bugfixes from -bk
 patofiero: I've only tried on 2.6.8 - will try 2.6.10 this week
 lamont: nono, try 2.6.11-rc1, it's all hoopy & froody & stuff.
[08:15] <lamont> * willy nods emphatically
[08:15] <lamont> teehee
[08:16] <fabbione> willy lies :P
[08:16] <fabbione> get 2.6.10 up first
[08:16] <fabbione> and we will see if something else needs to be backported
[08:16] <fabbione> i heard some rumors about some good stuff going in
[08:16] <fabbione> if it's worth we will grab it
[08:17] <fabbione> i am kinda afraid to push 2.6.11-rc as is because some arches still have to catch up on some major changes
[08:17] <lamont> fabbione: I think he was being a shade parisc-centric
[08:18] <fabbione> eheh
[08:18] <fabbione> he still has to fix those I/O problems on f11
[08:18] <fabbione> that's the only reason why i didn
[08:18] <fabbione> 't build the kernels myself
[08:18] <T-Bone> heh
[08:19] <fabbione> Kamion: can i kill the Packages files on people?
[08:21] <thom> lamont: i think mako said it was
[08:21] <T-Bone> if so, i wasn't aware ;)
[08:21] <lamont> T-Bone: us holiday
[08:21] <lamont> some dead civil rights leader or something
[08:21] <mako> lamont: dude, totally
[08:21] <T-Bone> huh
[08:21] <lamont> mako: my kids have school today
[08:21] <fabbione> elmo: ready to get 4GB of transfer?
[08:21] <mako> lamont: today is MLK jr day
[08:22] <lamont> but the banks are closed
[08:22] <mako> lamont: if your kids went to school at a federal bank, they wouldn't have
[08:22] <lamont> mako: the rest of the district has the school off...
[08:22] <mako> lamont: maybe the principle is anti-mlk
[08:22] <mako> several states refused to celebrate mlk day at all until the 90s
[08:23] <mako> "celebrate" meaning we don't work
[08:23] <lamont> mako: conservative school in colorado - they just plain don't like them thar liberals
[08:23] <mako> in any case, i forgot too so i'm gonna take off another day this week
[08:23] <lamont> mako: too much to do today, I think I'll pretend it's tuesday
[08:26] <haggai> mako: did you get my mail re MOTU?
[08:26] <elmo> fabbione: sure
[08:27] <fabbione> elmo: i am going to upload "less" for testing
[08:27] <fabbione> and than i will flood jackass
[08:27] <elmo> haggai: nice link credative have there
[08:27] <fabbione> just to be 1000% sure that the .changes are correct
[08:28] <fabbione> elmo: do you want to stop cron while i am flushing the 4G and run manually?
[08:28] <elmo> nah
[08:28] <fabbione> i am not sure we can process that much data in 5 minutes
[08:28] <mako> haggai: probably.. i have only 104 more canonical mails in my inbox to get through :)
[08:28] <haggai> elmo: was that sarcastic? (I've no idea how fast it is)
[08:28] <haggai> mako: ah :)
[08:29] <fabbione> elmo: less is up
[08:29] <elmo> haggai: I was getting 3Mb/s at one point - I suspect if both ends had the right tcp windows settings it could sane that and/or do better
[08:29] <elmo> s/sane/sustain/
[08:29] <haggai> elmo: uh, wow
[08:30] <elmo> still, doesn't quite compare to the 42Mb/s I got transferring it on the LAN ;-)
[08:31] <elmo> haggai: okay, it works locally.. so I'm guessing it didn't like the 30min+transfer for some reason.  sucks.
[08:32] <haggai> elmo: oh, odd
[08:32] <fabbione> elmo: less_382-2_sparc.changes ACCEPTED
[08:32] <fabbione> i am flooding now
[08:32] <haggai> elmo: so is the file in the upload directory now?
[08:32] <fabbione> on the way :-)
[08:33] <elmo> haggai: yeah - do you want to transfer everything but the orig.tar.gz?
[08:33] <haggai> elmo: will do, cheers
[08:33] <elmo> as a work around, I suggest you upload from that www.creadtiv box, if you can
[08:33] <elmo> for 100MB +orig.tar.gz's anyway
[08:34] <haggai> ok.  I think I'll actually create the file remotely and just download it to my box in future, like I do for the main version
[08:34] <elmo> oh christ
[08:34] <elmo> I bet fabbione's doing all 4Gb in one upload.. this'll be an interesting test of poppy
[08:38] <T-Bone> heh
[08:40] <Riddell> elmo: any idea why my kynaptic -0ubuntu2 package hasn't been built?
[08:41] <elmo> Riddell: checked the build logs?
[08:41] <elmo> drwxr-sr-x    2 poppy    poppy      253952 Jan 17 19:41 upload-000295
[08:41] <elmo> go sparc, it's your freaking b'day
[08:42] <Riddell> elmo: there's no build log for it, but there is an accepted message on hoary-changes
[08:42] <elmo> okay, it's dep-wait on unsermake
[08:43] <Riddell> elmo: -0ubuntu1 wrongly had a build-dep on unsermake so I uploaded -0ubuntu2 which removed that build-dep
[08:43] <elmo> which I'll go process if jackass survives fabbione-assualt
[08:44] <elmo> Riddell: ah, okay, our buildds can't handle that; I'll give it back in that case
[08:45] <Mithrandir> lamont: sorry, I've been away today; had a meeting in Oslo.
[08:46] <lamont> Mithrandir: np
[08:47] <Mithrandir> lamont: libsdl1.2, linux86 and what was the last one?
[08:53] <seb128> what ?
[08:53] <seb128> lamont: there is a 0ubuntu7
[08:53] <seb128> lamont: built everywhere
[08:57] <fabbione> elmo: it's all in
[08:57] <fabbione> 4108001884 bytes transferred in 886 seconds (4.42M/s)                          
[08:57] <fabbione> Total 7599 files transferred
[08:57] <kent> ajmitch, its not adviced to upgrade now, or?
[08:58] <elmo> fabbione: yep, it'[s processing now
[08:58] <elmo> oh crap
[08:58] <elmo> you killedit
[08:58] <lamont> seb128: yeah
[08:58] <fabbione> elmo: i am getting the emails
[08:58] <lamont> sorry -fast fingers
[09:02] <ajmitch> kent: dunno, I'm putting the pieces back together now :)
[09:03] <fabbione> elmo: i am so damn excited :-)
[09:05] <T-Bone> lamont: how much? ;)
[09:05] <kent> ajmitch, i upgraded right now, and didn't have so much to install. I didn't get any problems, perhaps if i reboot..
[09:06] <ajmitch> kent: well I'm doing a warty->hoary upgrade
[09:09] <kent> ajmitch, oh.. that might get you in trouble initially..  I have run hoary some time now, 
[09:09] <Kamion> fabbione: go ahead and kill that Packages file
[09:09] <ajmitch> kent: nothing that can't be easily fixed, I'm sure
[09:10] <kent> btw,  beep media player have not worked for a long time. it seg faults..  but since its in Universe, perhaps you dont mind?
[09:10] <lamont> T-Bone: don't ask.
[09:10] <T-Bone> lamont: heh. I bet that's not enough ;^)
[09:10] <fabbione> Kamion: i did a while ago :-)
[09:11] <fabbione> Kamion: i think pretty soon you will be able to use the archive
[09:11] <Kamion> good
[09:13] <fabbione> i am getting mails from d*
[09:13] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sparc?
[09:14] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeps
[09:14] <haggai> elmo: please can you allow openoffice2 in?
[09:14] <haggai> openoffice.org2, I mean
[09:14] <fabbione> i think we lost debian-installer...
[09:14] <Mithrandir> fabbione: rock! :)
[09:15] <fabbione> none of the versions have been accepted
[09:15] <Mithrandir> (about sparc, not d-i)
[09:15] <fabbione> Mithrandir: <fabbione> elmo: i am so damn excited :-)
[09:15] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that was d-i for sparc :-)
[09:15] <fabbione> i think the easiest way to spot if something is wrong will be to compare the 2 package files from what is in the dc and what is at home
[09:18] <fabbione> i think either my spam filter is skipping
[09:19] <fabbione> anyway the packages are all there
[09:28] <fabbione> elmo: sorry.. one question: debian-installer_20041227ubuntu5
[09:29] <fabbione> i didn't get any email that has been processed.. did i lost it or is it still in the queue?
[09:29] <fabbione> just to be sure i don't start to be anal on missing emails
[09:30] <elmo> debian-installer is BYHAND
[09:30] <fabbione> ah ok
[09:30] <elmo> neither maintainer nor buildd get mail about that till it's processed
[09:30] <fabbione> so i will never see an ACCEPT
[09:30] <elmo> you will when I process it
[09:30] <fabbione> roger
[09:30] <elmo> and I just fixed the REJECT fd leak, so the rest should go through now
[09:31] <fabbione> i am getting email from g*
[09:32] <fabbione> processed more than 30 minutes ago :-)
[09:32] <Mithrandir> elmo: what's the easiest way to get old packages out of the morgue?
[09:32] <elmo> Mithrandir: morgue.ubuntu.com ?
[09:33] <elmo> it needs an index, but other than that..
[09:33] <lamont> fabbione: Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/kernel-wedge/commands/gen-control line 161.
[09:33] <lamont> ??
[09:33] <Mithrandir> great, thanks.
[09:33] <fabbione> lamont: kernel-wedge - harmless
[09:33] <lamont> kewlnews
[09:34] <elmo> Mithrandir: it's on rookery if you want find(1)/locate(1) ability
[09:34] <lamont> s/ws/ss/
[09:34] <fabbione> ARGH
[09:35] <fabbione> openoffice.org failed on i386!
[09:35] <fabbione> and i did change MANIFEST.sparc?
[09:35] <fabbione> lamont: no.. no need to
[09:35] <lamont> my aching bandwidth-straw
[09:35] <fabbione> you can build with -8
[09:36] <fabbione> there are no config changes
[09:36] <lamont> yeah - but it's gonna take the poor mirror another week or two to catch up again
[09:36] <lamont> esp if oo.o is heading down the pipe at it
[09:36] <fabbione> lamont: exclude linux-source for now
[09:36] <fabbione> i will tell you when enable it again
[09:37] <lamont> fabbione: it's not so trivial...
[09:37] <lamont> since excluding it will cause me to morgue-ify all the existing copies as well.. :-(
[09:38] <fabbione> lamont: god.. downloading 12Mb of buildlog is the pain
[09:39] <lamont> feh - that's nothging in light of the 233 MB burp that you cause me in linux-source
[09:39] <lamont> (and that's just i386/ia64)
[09:39] <lamont> and source
[09:39] <fabbione> ERROR: Error 65280 occurred while making /build/buildd/openoffice.org-1.1.3/connectivity/source/drivers/evoab1.5
[09:39] <fabbione> AHHHH
[09:39] <fabbione> of course the error is sooooo clear!
[09:40] <fabbione> NOTICE.. i did only change debian/MANIFEST.sparc
[09:40] <lamont> hex(65280)
[09:40] <lamont> '0xff00'
[09:40] <fabbione> haggai: ?
[09:41] <fabbione> lamont: meh.. what does that mean?
[09:41] <elmo> ARGH
[09:41] <elmo> why is figlet non-free?
[09:41] <elmo> I so need to MEGA-FIGLET-OF-DEATH lamont right now
[09:41] <fabbione>  _   _    _    ____  ____    _    ___ _ 
[09:41] <fabbione> | | | |  / \  / ___|/ ___|  / \  |_ _| |
[09:41] <fabbione> | |_| | / _ \| |  _| |  _  / _ \  | || |
[09:41] <fabbione> |  _  |/ ___ \ |_| | |_| |/ ___ \ | ||_|
[09:41] <fabbione> |_| |_/_/   \_\____|\____/_/   \_\___(_)
[09:41] <fabbione> 
[09:42] <Mithrandir> because of some font shit or something and the debian maintainer was silly and uploaded the new version to non-free rather than just keeping the old, free version in main.
[09:42] <jordi> doh
[09:42] <lamont> fabbione: does it put it's output somewhere other than stdout?  (kernel, that is)
[09:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: do you have any idea of what could have caused that error in OOo?
[09:42] <fabbione> lamont: nope..
[09:42] <fabbione> standard build
[09:43] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sorry, I'm not drunk enough yet.
[09:43] <fabbione> if you want to see all the gcc normal compilation stuff you need to define VERBOSE=1 or something like that
[09:43] <fabbione> it's in the top Makefile
[09:43] <fabbione>   KBUILD_VERBOSE = 0
[09:43] <fabbione> this one
[09:44] <Mithrandir> they're using kbuild?
[09:44] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no no.. that's the kernel
 fabbione: does it put it's output somewhere other than stdout? 
[09:44] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ah, ok.
[09:48] <fabbione> lamont: can you just try to give back ooo on i386?
[09:49] <fabbione> lamont: i really don't see why it should fail
[09:49] <fabbione> either some build-dep are fucked
[09:49] <fabbione> because i didn't touch anything
[09:49] <fabbione> but "you touched last" rule is still valid... i guess
[09:54] <pitti> lamont: I did not catch mdz up to now; if you do, can you please ask him about the stripping?
[09:55] <lamont> pitti: will do - I expect he's actually taking the US holiday today, instead of tomorrow like some of us... :-)
[09:56] <pitti> oh, ok
[09:56] <Mithrandir> lamont: did you find out what other package was problematic?
[09:56] <pitti> see you, guys
[09:56] <lamont> Mithrandir: no
[09:56] <lamont> Mithrandir: libglademm2.0, libsdl1.2, linux86
[09:56] <lamont> are the 3 possibly amd64-specific failures I have now
[09:57] <Mithrandir> ah, it was the first one, then.
[09:57] <Mithrandir> libsdl1.2 was just uploaded.
[09:57] <jordi> mvo_: another
[09:57] <jordi> "Prefer package versions from the selected distribution when upgrading "
[09:57] <jordi> "packages. If you manually force a verison from a different distribution, the "
[09:58] <jordi> "verison"
[09:59] <mvo_> jordi: thanks
[09:59] <mvo_> jordi: fixed in r1478
[10:00] <jordi> getting nitpicky:
[10:00] <jordi> "Reload the package information to become informed about new, removed or "
[10:00] <jordi> "upgraded  software packages."
[10:00] <jordi> extra space :)
[10:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: is #3029 still true ? I've it assigned to me but no idea on the issue in fact ...
[10:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's my bug, it's my glorious hack which solves that one
[10:02] <mvo_> jordi: thanks, fixed (also I shouldn't encourage your nitpicking ;)
[10:02] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, so just take it, thanks :)
[10:02] <jordi> mvo_: you can't avoid that :)
[10:02] <jordi> mvo_: wait before I report all the missing full stops at the end of some long warnings and notice dialogs :)
[10:02] <ajmitch> hey jordi  
[10:03] <jordi> hi andrew!
[10:03] <mvo_> jordi: aggg ... glad that I haven't announced a string-freeze yet :)
[10:03] <jordi> hehe
[10:03] <Mithrandir> mvo_: what's the status of IUH?
[10:04] <jordi> msgid "%s: %s but it is not going to be installed"
[10:04] <mvo_> Mithrandir: basic stuff ready and uploaded
[10:04] <jordi> ok, so what was I supossed to do with these?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> mvo_: ok, coolie.  I'll go ahead and hack at U8MT, then
[10:04] <mvo_> Mithrandir: no i18n support yet (but not too hard to do)
[10:04] <mvo_> Mithrandir: play a bit with it, see the example on the wiki
[10:04] <Mithrandir> ok, but I don't i18n yet, so that's not a problem.  (Yet. :)
[10:05] <mvo_> jordi: haven't had time yet to look, was dragged away
[10:05] <jordi> ok
[10:05] <jordi> that's the only thing I'm missing.
[10:06] <jordi> mvo_: is there no upstream changelog for synaptic?
[10:06] <mvo_> jordi: the changelog of the svn is the best we have
[10:07] <jordi> mvo_: urgh
[10:07] <jordi> food time
[10:08] <mvo_> jordi: what are you looking for exactly? 
[10:08] <mvo_> I may be able to help you :)
[10:08] <jordi> mvo_: just having a look :)
[10:08] <jordi> NEWS was interesting enough
[10:11] <fabbione> jackass is slowing down :-)
[10:11] <fabbione> 1 hour delay on the emails
[10:12] <mjg59> fabbione: You missed one of hte bugzilla patches
[10:12] <thom> weedy load average though
[10:12] <mdz> pitti: here now
[10:12] <mjg59> fabbione: 5548
[10:12] <fabbione> mjg59: i was just reading on #ubuntu
[10:13] <fabbione> i missed the patch.. no problem.. it will be in -10
[10:13] <mdz> pitti, lamont: if this is regarding confirmation to enable .mo stripping in the archive, if pitti is ready then I am ready
[10:13] <mvo_> jordi: I'm looking over the strings now
[10:13] <mjg59> fabbione: Thanks!
[10:14] <fabbione> mjg59: no problem.. sorry again, but i started from the bottom of the list and after a few hours i stopped
[10:14] <mjg59> Haha
[10:14] <mjg59> No problem
[10:14] <fabbione> and i rather keep going for upload small changes / upload often
[10:14] <mdz> jbailey: around?
[10:14] <fabbione> than 20938298392839823 fixes and one upload
[10:15] <mjg59> Is jbailey one of you guys now?
[10:15] <fabbione> he has been assimilated
[10:16] <jbailey> mdz: Yup
[10:16] <mjg59> mdz: Can I chat to you about power management integration quickly?
[10:16] <mdz> mjg59: sure
[10:17] <mdz> elmo: wanted to talk about translation stripping?
[10:18] <mjg59> mdz: Ideally, we'd have a package that provided a consistent interface for suspending to different states
[10:18] <mdz> mjg59: yes, thom and I talked about this a bit
[10:18] <lamont> svgalib is like totally universe now, right?
[10:18] <mdz> jbailey: welcome officially :-)
[10:18] <mdz> lamont: totally dude
[10:18] <lamont> jbailey: yeah - welcome abored
[10:18] <mjg59> This would also be a good place to add hooks like the initrd/dsdt stuff
[10:18] <lamont> aboard, even
[10:18] <jbailey> mdz: Thanks, Matt. =)
[10:18] <lamont> mdz: then I guess I should really fix lirc.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> lamont: ok, linux86, libglademm2.0, libsdl1.2 all fixed.
[10:18] <jbailey> lamont: Duuude. ;)
[10:18] <lamont> Mithrandir: rock!~
[10:19] <mjg59> mdz: So can we add something to main that does this? That way it makes it easier to hook in the UI stuff
[10:19] <lamont> dh_install -s --sourcedir=debian/tmp --list-missing
[10:19] <lamont> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/bin/smode2': No such file or directory
[10:19] <lamont> how do I tell dh_install that smode2 is optional?
[10:19] <lamont> I suppose I could just terminate it with prejudice, but that seems kinda mean.. :-)
[10:21] <Mithrandir> lamont: currently, you can use a wildcard, but that's going to go away once joeyh fixes said bug. :)
[10:21] <lamont> I fixed it by removing the package that shouldn't be there anyway
[10:27] <mdz> lamont: what about lirc?
[10:27] <mdz> lamont: oh, does it build-dep on svgalib?
[10:27] <mdz> lamont: fwiw, the easiest way would probably be to add an extra dh_install invocation and do it on the command line
[10:35] <lamont> mdz: only on i386. :-(
[10:36] <lamont> lirc-svga package kissed goodbye.
[10:36] <lamont> since smode2 was the only thing in it...
[10:36] <ajmitch> hmm, need another CONFIG option turned on in the kernel for selinux to work properly
[10:36] <fabbione> ajmitch: ?
[10:37] <ajmitch> fabbione: CONFIG_AUDIT, otherwise you don't get any messages
[10:37] <ajmitch> want me to file a bug now?
[10:37] <seb128> lamont: do you know why gnome-doc-utils is not in the build logs ?
[10:37] <fabbione> ajmitch: hold on
[10:37] <lamont> seb128: short answer: yes.\
[10:37] <lamont> let me go find it.
[10:38] <lamont> seb128: it's  d-w libxml2-dev (>= 2.6.12)
[10:38] <lamont> and only success logs are there for the past little bit... I'll do a massive giveback sometime soon to catch all the failures.
[10:40] <fabbione> ajmitch: what is the reason of having such option enabled?
[10:40] <lamont> bad gaim
[10:40] <lamont> seb128: missing build-dep on libcamel1.2-dev, somehow.
[10:41] <seb128> lamont: hum ok. In fact libxml2 is probably stucked in a NEW somewhere, a binary package has changed its name
[10:41] <lamont> that could do it
[10:41] <seb128> lamont: ok, fixing gaim now
[10:42] <ajmitch> fabbione: selinux uses the auditing framework to report avc messages now, iirc
[10:42] <ajmitch> same problem has been seen in sid
[10:42] <fabbione> ajmitch: and why these avc messages are important?
[10:43] <fabbione> sid, but what arch?
[10:43] <ajmitch> fabbione: avc messages are all the security messages that selinux reports
[10:43] <ajmitch> last I checked (2.6.9) it was sid, all arches
[10:43] <ajmitch> since selinux was only enabled by default in that version
[10:44] <fabbione> ajmitch: i will think abou tit
[10:44] <ajmitch> ok
[10:45] <fabbione> i am off
[10:45] <fabbione> cya tomorrow
[10:45] <ajmitch> bye
[10:46] <ogra> ciao fabbione
[10:50] <crimsun> ogra: thanks for nicotine :-)
[10:50] <ogra> :)
[10:51] <mvo_> jordi: translator examples are added to r1480
[10:51] <ogra> crimsun: fits perfectly for a first upload for me (i'm Mr. smoketomuch) ...
[10:51] <crimsun> ogra: ;-)
[10:51] <ogra> crimsun: ecsound is also done...
[10:52] <ogra> crimsun: eca even
[10:52] <Nafallo> still no new mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail package :-P...
[10:52] <crimsun> ogra: excellent!
[10:53] <ogra> :)
[10:55] <ogra> seb128: will this survive gnome 2.10 ? there seems to be no replacement for nautilus-view.h in libnautilus-extensinon 
[11:05] <jordi> mvo_: thanks
[11:08] <seb128> ogra: define "this" 
[11:09] <seb128> oh, nautilus-media
[11:09] <ogra> seb128: look a line above ;)
[11:09] <seb128> dunno, there is no real point to keep it
[11:09] <ogra> seb128: thats what i thought....
[11:09] <seb128> totem has most of the features
[11:10] <ogra> seb128: audio preview works without n-m right ?
[11:10] <seb128> "preview" ?
[11:10] <ogra> pre-listen
[11:10] <seb128> oh, right, that's a nautilus' feature
[11:11] <ogra> so we should drop it from universe, since it has no use anymore and wont work.....
[11:13] <seb128> "we" ?
[11:13] <seb128> I don't drop any package, feel free to do it :p
[11:13] <ogra> <- MOTU
[11:14] <ogra> i will :)
[11:14] <seb128> ogra: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3837, comment #2/#3
[11:14] <ogra> seb128: wow, thanks :)
[11:14] <seb128> np
[11:17] <Riddell> elmo: amarok 1.2beta3 seems to be in hoary but I can't see a build log
[11:27] <jordi> mvo_: the \t thing remains.
[11:28] <jordi> mvo_: soem of the "FIXME" strings in ca.po still apply, too.
[11:30] <elmo> Riddell: please ask lamont as first point of contact about buildd related things
[11:30] <opi> hi
[11:31] <mvo_> jordi: FIXME strings? I should have another look over them tomorrow I guess 
[11:32] <Kamion> amu: did you apply the hotplug patch you were mentioning earlier? it was wrong
[11:32] <mvo_> jordi: what needs to be added for the \t?
[11:32] <Kamion> amu: it changed a bunch of things which were already correct, and didn't fix at least one bashism that was visible in context ...
[11:33] <Riddell> elmo: ok, sure
[11:33] <T-Gone> Kamion: have you been able to merge all changes (debootstrap, libunwind, elilo) in the daily ISO for ia64 lately?
[11:34] <T-Gone> if so i'll give a new shot asap
[11:34] <Kamion> T-Gone: debootstrap/libunwind should be there in tomorrow's ISO, not elilo though
[11:34] <Riddell> lamont: any idea? (why amarok 1.2beta3 seems to be in hoary but there's no build log)
[11:34] <lamont> Riddell: pretty good idea... :-(
[11:34] <T-Gone> Kamion: i'll wait for elilo to be in, I'll test everything at once. I'll try to find some time to boot my zx6000 monster to check what's wrong on SCSI boxes
[11:35] <mvo_> jordi: only 4 FIXMEs left in ca.po :)
[11:35] <jordi> mvo_: http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/gnome-i18n/developer.html
[11:35] <jordi> mvo_: that's an excellent document 
[11:35] <jordi> searching for tabs should reveal stuff
[11:36] <jordi> Why do you use tabs in those messages anyway?
[11:36] <mdz> jordi: hey
[11:36] <Kamion> T-Gone: ok, I'll take care of it tomorrow
[11:36] <amu> Kamion: i applied the patch, tested it local and it works   
[11:36] <jordi> hi mdz 
[11:36] <T-Gone> Kamion: thx! See ya.
[11:37] <Kamion> amu: really, it does not fix it. no current shell cares about "$VERBOSE" == no versus "x$VERBOSE" == "xno"
[11:37] <jordi> mdz: when I was going to work on the apt po update, I saw you had uploaded already :)
[11:37] <Kamion> amu: please revert that and simply replace the == with =
[11:37] <Kamion> that's the bashism that was reported
[11:37] <Kamion> your patched package will work, but no better and no worse than the original
[11:38] <lamont> Riddell: give it about 5-10 minutews
[11:38] <mvo_> jordi: this is the dependency problem error message. it can be very long
[11:38] <lamont> Riddell: I had an idea, but it was wrong...
[11:38] <Riddell> lamont: ok, good luck
[11:39] <lamont> Riddell: nah - stale lock file was preventing mirroring, it turned out.
[11:39] <jordi> mvo_: hmmm, but you don't answer why it needs tabs
[11:40] <jordi> mvo_: sent update
[11:43] <jdub> thom, lamont: ooh, mono was de-b0rked?
[11:43] <thom> yeah, and shoved back to universe
[11:43] <lamont> jdub: evil was committed
[11:43] <lamont> and mdz would approve universe
[11:43] <thom> we might want to work on 1.1 at some point, i think it's gonna be the better option
[11:43] <lamont> mcs_1.0.4-1 must never go into main
[11:44] <elmo> the fact that it's in universe is no excuse, we should not be hand uploading stuff that doesn't build.  period.
[11:44] <lamont> thom: regardless of the version picked, it must be able to build from just the sources in the archive.  At any time.
[11:44] <thom> yes
[11:44] <thom> agreed 100%
[11:44] <jdub> ooh, evil enough to rile the walking evil Himself :-)
[11:44] <lamont> elmo: mcs_1.0.4-1 is the first package that has been so treated, and only after discussing it with mdz.  /me is not happy with it at all
[11:44] <thom> (it doesn't build in debian, either, btw)
[11:45] <ajmitch> lamont: is it truly that evil?
[11:45] <lamont> ajmitch: if I can't build it tomorrow, it doesn't go in the archive today.  period.
[11:45] <mdz> jordi: I can do another Debian upload for new translations, vorlon said it would be OK
[11:45] <mvo_> jordi: ups, sorry. it displays a dialog (dialog_unmet) that has a message "Could not mark all packages for install or update". it then has a textview that shows: "$packagename: \n Depends: apt 0.5.4 but 0.5.3 is installed or\n aptitude 0.2.17 but it is not installable"
[11:45] <lamont> ajmitch: as it was, building it required scrounging the morgues of both debian and ununtu
[11:45] <ajmitch> hmm, so there'd only be one .net-compatible runtime
[11:46] <lamont> ajmitch: not at all.
[11:46] <lamont> the issue with mono 1.0.4-1 is that you must install 1.0.2-1 on the machine in order to build it.
[11:46] <ajmitch> lamont: not pnet?
[11:46] <jordi> mdz: oh
[11:46] <jordi> mdz: hmm, but you already did it, didn't you?
[11:46] <lamont> if pnet can build itself, I'll be happy to bootstrap it in
[11:47] <ajmitch> lamont: it's in universe
[11:47] <thom> i didn't think dotGNU was even close to useful yet
[11:47] <lamont> ajmitch: the process goes: 1) build it once using whatever it takes.  (2) build it again using only source/binaries in the archive, and the binaries that you built in (1)
[11:48] <ajmitch> thom: it's not as useful as mono, but still runs a bit of stuff well
[11:48] <ajmitch> I need to hack the package a little to tell it to use the correct paths for gtk#, etc
[11:52] <lamont> hrm.. looks like a debian bug, to boot.
[11:54] <lamont> well, ok.  a buddy just grabbed abunch on his way to the airport, with promises to find them good homes
[11:54] <mdz> jordi: 
[11:54] <mdz> jordi: I have made two uploads, and I am not afraid to make two more if necessary ;-)
[11:54] <mdz> I have a sarge branch set up now
[11:57] <ogra> mvo_: n8
[12:00] <haggai> fabbione: the error message is way above the line you posted
[12:01] <jdub> thom: 
[12:01] <jdub> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/mono-assemblies-base_1.0.4-1_all.deb (--unpack):
[12:01] <jdub>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/mono', which is also in package libdbus-cil
[12:01] <jdub> 
[12:01] <jdub> known?