[12:03] <Kamion> jdub: oh god
[12:03] <elmo> ok, processed
[12:03] <Kamion> we are going to need to publish a script to tell people how badly broken their systems are :P
[12:03] <thully> is the live CD looking better? specifically, is ipw2200 working properly now?
[12:03] <jdub> Kamion: i'm considering writing a mail about it, both to them and to ubuntu-users
[12:03] <mdz> thully: that's the fix I speak of
[12:04] <Kamion> thully: on its way ...
[12:04] <ajmitch> how hard will it be for those people to upgrade to hoary?
[12:04] <Kamion> ajmitch: many of the versions in those repositories are greater than those in hoary, so apt will not upgrade them automatically
[12:04] <ajmitch> Kamion: that's what I was worried about..
[12:04] <ajmitch> causing much pain & anguish
[12:04] <Kamion> I'm not sure it's possible to tell, but they might have pretty much arbitrary breakage
[12:04] <thully> when will the live CD be ready?  
[12:05] <mdz> ready for what?
[12:05] <thully> the one w/the hotplug fix
[12:05] <mdz> it'll be ready for a round of testing in ~15 minutes or so
[12:05] <mdz> I'm just waiting for casper 0.22 to appear on mirnyy
[12:05] <azeem> maybe you can instruct them to adjust apt preferences, and pin Ubuntu's warty above all else and apt-get dist-downgrade'
[12:05] <Kamion> I think more like ~45 minutes
[12:05] <mdz> uploaded at 2236 UTC
[12:05] <Kamion> elmo's processing probably didn't beat cron.daily
[12:05] <mdz> (build log dated 2236, anyway)
[12:06] <Kamion> yes, irrelevant 'cos it's byhand
[12:06] <mdz> I meant the casper build log
[12:06] <Kamion> oh
[12:06] <mdz> I would have expected it to appear at :03 just now
[12:06] <Kamion> sorry
[12:06] <elmo> I can push cron.daily
[12:07] <elmo> well once this one finishes
[12:07] <Kamion> that would be good, thanks
[12:07] <Kamion> :-)
[12:07] <elmo> cron.continuously!
[12:07] <thully> OK - guess I'll go fetch the daily iso now for install
[12:07] <crimsun> azeem: if they can pin properly, they'd not need the warning ;)
[12:08] <mjg59> Oh man
[12:09] <mjg59> How did I never notice xgl before?
[12:09] <Kamion> Hooray, my heinously awful archive-copier hack works
[12:16] <daniels> lifeless: pong
[12:16] <daniels> mdz: pong
[12:16] <daniels> lifeless: run xrestop to see what's leaking your memory -- probably a client app
[12:16] <mjg59> daniels: Have you played with xglx/
[12:16] <buga> hi, are the popularity-contest results publicly available somewhere? popcon.ubuntulinux.org seems to be a bit outdated
[12:16] <mjg59> ?
[12:16] <elmo> mdz/jkamion: should be on mirrors now
[12:17] <daniels> mjg59: nope
[12:17] <daniels> mjg59: not much good without mesa-solo, anyway
[12:17] <daniels> since you need to have an x server to run it on top of
[12:18] <mjg59> Yeah, but presumably faster for composite development than trying to do it on i855?
[12:18] <daniels> probably, yeah
[12:18] <mjg59> How's mesa-solo coming along?
[12:18] <daniels> really well, actually
[12:18] <mjg59> Cool
[12:18] <daniels> and soon we'll be able to build mesa and x separately, by the looks
[12:18] <bob2> mesa-solo = X-less mesa?
[12:18] <mjg59> So then we start concentrating on 3D support?
[12:19] <mjg59> daniels: Oh, yeah, the crack all works now
[12:19] <daniels> mjg59: sweet
[12:19] <daniels> bob2: basically, yeah
[12:19] <daniels> mjg59: well, then our build system gets less crap, and we're all using a modular X \o/
[12:20] <sladen> so,   DRI -> mesa-solo -> xglx -> xlib  ?
[12:20] <mjg59> That way we only end up with one hardware layer to support
[12:20] <lifeless> battstat-applet-2
[12:21] <mjg59> lifeless: Oh, yeah, that leaks badly in 2.9.4
[12:21] <mjg59> davyd put out a 2.9.4.1 gnome-applets tarball that fixes it
[12:21] <Kamion> elmo: thanks, building
[12:21] <mjg59> Shame about legacy hardware without 3D engines...
[12:21] <daniels> sladen: er
[12:22] <sladen> lifeless: prey tell me battstat doesn't flash annoyingly by default?
[12:22] <lifeless> sladen: dunno what you mean
[12:23] <lifeless> daniels: still using 8879 root       6 -10  869m 701m 5092 S  0.7 69.3  21:43.65 Xorg                                                                 
[12:23] <lifeless> after killing battstatapplet
[12:23] <daniels> lifeless: yes, the allocations don't die
[12:23] <daniels> it's a leak in the truest sense
[12:24] <lifeless> oh fragr
[12:24] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[12:25] <mjg59> Christ
[12:25] <mjg59> Why does xserver's autogen.sh not work?
[12:25] <mjg59> I hate autotools
[12:27] <mjg59> Maybe it's GTK's fault
[12:27] <daniels> mjg59: hm, how does it fail?
[12:27] <Kamion> mdz: done
[12:27] <mjg59> aclocal: configure.ac: 40: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library
[12:28] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily-live/current$ isoinfo -R -i hoary-live-i386.iso -x /install/initrd.list | grep ^hotplug-udeb
[12:28] <Kamion> hotplug-udeb 0.0.20040329-16ubuntu10
[12:28] <daniels> mjg59: errr
[12:29] <Kamion> argh, why is base-config not starting gdm automatically?
[12:29] <Kamion> somebody sucks and I don't know who
[12:30] <mjg59> Ah. S/AM/AC/ on AM_PROG_LIBTOOL seems to help.
[12:30] <daniels> Kamion: gtk
[12:31] <mjg59> No, then autoconf complains
[12:31] <daniels> re-run libtoolize --force --copy?
[12:32] <mjg59> Nope
[12:34] <robtaylor_> mjg59: it probbly needs certain versions of automake and fails to check for them
[12:35] <robtaylor_> mjg59: try AUTOMAKE=automake-1.9 and see if that works
[12:36] <robtaylor_> (this seems to be a common theme atm, god knows who started it, i'm sure it used to be normal for autogens.sh's to check versions :/) 
[12:38] <robtaylor_> (revert that last s// 1st though ;) )
[12:39] <robtaylor_> oh, and ACLOCAL=aclocal-1.9 =)
[12:39] <robtaylor_> obviously ..
[12:41] <robtaylor_> mjg59: any luck?
[12:41] <mjg59> robtaylor_: configure.ac:41: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_PROG_LIBTOOL
[12:41] <mjg59> (aclocal-1.9 && autoconf)
[12:42] <crimsun> mjg59: did you `libtoolize -fc' ?
[12:42] <daniels> mjg59: aclocal-1.9 && automake-1.9 && autoconf
[12:43] <mjg59> crimsun: Yes
[12:44] <mjg59> daniels: Same error
[12:44] <robtaylor_> mjg59: what source tree? i'll take a look locally
[12:45] <mjg59> robtaylor_: xserver from cvs.freedesktop.org
[12:45] <crimsun> mjg59: where is your libtool.m4?
[12:45] <crimsun> mjg59: in . ?
[12:45] <mjg59> crimsun: Yes
[12:45] <mjg59> mjg59@tyrosine:/tmp/xserver$ grep AC_PROG_LIBTOOL *.m4
[12:45] <mjg59> libtool.m4:AU_DEFUN([AC_PROG_LIBTOOL] ,      [LT_INIT] )
[12:45] <crimsun> mjg59: aclocal-1.9 -I . && automake-1.9 && autoconf
[12:46] <mjg59> crimsun: Ok, that works
[12:46] <robtaylor_> woo!
[12:46] <crimsun> [I run across that all the time] 
[12:47] <jdub> daniels: http://www.minion.de/files/1.0-6629/
[12:48] <jdub> daniels: no idea what this is for, but some dude asked about it
[12:48] <robtaylor_> mjg59: hmm, maybe a patch for autogen.sh is in order..
[12:48] <crimsun> jdub: christian worked for Nvidia; he provides those patches.
[12:48] <robtaylor_> check automake/aclocal version, and add -I . to the autoreconf line, i guess
[12:48] <crimsun> jdub: he goes by 'zander' here on freenode.
[12:48] <mjg59> Haha
[12:49] <mjg59> Patches that we aren't actually legally allowed to apply at the moment
[12:49] <jdub> oh
[12:49] <mjg59> (but that's being sorted)
[12:49] <jdub> i've heard about thoe
[12:49] <mjg59> Nvidia fuckup on their licensing text
[12:49] <robtaylor_> mjg59: ah
[12:50] <daniels> crimsun: oh, that's zander?
[12:50] <daniels> mjg59: well, actually, we can now
[12:50] <sladen> mjg59: before I try, do you reckon your fixed IRQ stuff avoids the need for pci=routeirq ?
[12:50] <crimsun> daniels: yep, zander.
[12:51] <mjg59> sladen: It should
[12:51] <thully> Hi - sorry, I haven't tested the install CD yet (I was testing the timezone behavior) - Imay not be able to do so for a while
[12:52] <thully> Does anyone know if live cd 0119.4 fixes the hotplug issue?
[12:52] <daniels> which 'hotplug issue'?
[12:52] <jdub> daniels: so what are these patches?
[12:52] <daniels> jdub: various patches to the kernel code for the nvidia driver
[12:52] <thully> issue w/wi-fi not loading properly
[12:52] <thully> I was discussing it w/mdz
[12:53] <daniels> jdub: looks like most of them are bugfixes for certain situations
[12:53] <lamont> I WILL NOT TRY TO DIVERT CONFFILES
[12:53] <lamont> *50
[12:53] <mdz> thully: there is a new live CD build up which should fix that
[12:53] <mdz> thully: I'm downloading it now to test
[12:54] <thully> OK - I'm downloading it now too, 0119.4, correct?
[12:54] <lamont> heh
[12:54] <mdz>  /current/
[12:54] <mdz> should be the same
[12:54] <thully> OK
[12:54] <lamont> mdz: and that's what was wrong with the livecd, duh
[12:54] <thully> I have to go now - have some things to do
[12:54] <thully> bye
[12:54] <ogra> is the frambuffer thingie with nvidia fixed ?
[12:54] <elmo> uh, how do I convert a random iso-8895-nn file to xx from the command line?
[12:55] <Mithrandir> elmo: iconv or recode
[12:55] <mdz> lamont: diverting conffiles, eh?
[12:55] <elmo> iconv says "conversion from iso-8895-1 not supported"
[12:55] <lamont> mdz: any other locales?  Pre-generate some locales (en_{US,GB,ZA}.UTF-8)
[12:55] <mdz> ogra: according to daniels, yes
[12:55] <lamont> mdz: /etc/init.d/dbus-1 would be a conffile...
[12:55] <Mithrandir> elmo: it's spelled 8859
[12:55] <mdz> I'll be testing it shortly
[12:55] <daniels> ogra: which framebuffer thingy?  the livecd stuff?  (if so, should be)
[12:55] <mdz> lamont: let's start with those
[12:55] <daniels> it should definitely work on i386
[12:55] <mdz> lamont: how big are they?
[12:55] <Mithrandir> not 95. :P
[12:55] <ogra> daniels: amd64 :)
[12:55] <daniels> ogra: (and amd64)
[12:56] <lamont> mdz: the livecd needs some games, you know... :--)
[12:56] <ogra> daniels: and i have a nice bug for you, i'll file on the weekend if i have time to switch to nv to track it
[12:56] <mdz> lamont: are you ready to implement the live seed?
[12:56] <daniels> ogra: awesome
[12:56] <elmo> Mithrandir: fair point, well made
[12:57] <daniels> mdz: comment on #5495?
[12:57] <Mithrandir> ISO8895 -- Shaped insulating refractory products -- Determination of cold crushing strength.  I kinda understand iconv won't convert that. ;)
[12:57] <Kamion> it would be cool if it did
[12:58] <lamont> mdz: we could do that.
[12:58] <lamont> just need an archive to check it out of, and we're golden
[12:58] <ogra> elmo: btw, if its text you can open it in gedit, it offers to select the locale on save
[12:58] <daniels> Kamion: no higher than 'enhancement', ok?
[12:58] <Kamion> daniels: mm?
[12:58] <daniels> you get to hit scott really hard for that one
[12:58] <daniels> er, ww
[12:59] <daniels> Kamion: the bug on iconv :)
[12:59] <Kamion> oh :)
[12:59] <lamont> mdz: the nice part is that the live seed just feeds straight into apt-get... no dependency deals or anything..
[01:00] <lamont> for that matter -it should just go into ubuntu-meta as ubuntu-livecd, which depends: ubuntu-desktop
[01:00] <mdz> lamont: let's have a round of ubuntu-devel about the live seed and what should go in it
[01:00] <mdz> the last time, I remember there was some dissent
[01:00] <mdz> (live should be the same as a desktop install, etc.)
[01:01] <Kamion> I think I need to tweak germinate a bit to make the live seed really work properly, too
[01:01] <Kamion> hm, or indeed work at all
[01:01] <lamont> Kamion: it wouldn't need to be germinated
[01:01] <Kamion>     for seedname in ("base", "desktop", "ship", "installer", "supported"):
[01:01] <Kamion> it should be, IMO
[01:01] <jdub> mdz: only silly pant stealers dissented with liveseed
[01:02] <lamont> Kamion: ok.
[01:02] <Kamion> I don't think there should be such a thing as a seed that doesn't get fed to germinate
[01:02] <Kamion> because if nothing else you want to make sure the stuff stays in main
[01:02] <lamont> hrm... yeah - liveseed might be broader than supported, eh?
[01:02] <lamont> Kamion: games in main??? the heresy
[01:02] <Kamion> live < supported, definitely
[01:02] <Kamion> but there might be stuff in the text of the live seed not mentioned in the text of the supported seed
[01:03] <lamont> right
[01:03] <Kamion> I think we want base < desktop < ship < supported; base < desktop < live < supported; casper < (?) installer < supported
[01:03] <mdz> it ought to be germinated, so we get a consistent set of stuff on the CD
[01:03] <lamont> mdz: should be done staring at the changes and pushing a round of updates to all the buildds within the hour.  If you want a dbus-1 happy livecd before that, holler now and I'll go fix it in place and run it.
[01:03] <Kamion> maybe just casper < supported and installer < supportd
[01:03] <Kamion> ed
[01:04] <daniels> mdz: bz email address changed (finally)
[01:05] <jdub> lamont: livecd was dbus-1 unhappy?
[01:07] <lamont> jdub: when you divert /etc/init.d/dbus-1 and then do a non-interactive install, you get /etc/init.d/dbus-1.dpkg-new, which is just not what you want later.
[01:07] <mdz> daniels: thanks
[01:08] <mdz> lamont: I'm about 1/4 of the way through downloading a full set
[01:08] <jdub> lamont: oh. why does it need to be diverted?
[01:08] <mdz> jdub: it had a bug
[01:08] <mdz> (past tense)
[01:09] <mdz> Kamion: is there an easy way to point cron.daily-live at an old version of the cloop images
[01:09] <jdub> oh
[01:09] <mdz> assuming lamont keeps them around?
[01:09] <lamont> jdub: and the bug was fixed
[01:09] <lamont> mdz: never been deleted :-)
[01:09] <lamont> although the location did change
[01:09] <mdz> that way, lamont can go ahead and build new images to test the new stuff
[01:09] <mdz> but if there is a casper problem, I can build new live CDs without downloading another 1.5 gigs
[01:11] <lamont> mdz: the other option is that if you need to build a new one, you can holler and I'll move the 'current' links back
[01:11] <mdz> of course, that may become obsolete soon with the rsyncable stuff
[01:11] <mdz> which would ROCK
[01:11] <Kamion> mdz: yes, poke /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/debian-cd/tools/add_live_filesystem
[01:12] <Kamion> I'll let you do that though, I'm off to bed
[01:12] <mdz> night
[01:13] <Kamion> amd64 live CD on a bandwidth-limited download overnight
[01:18] <haggai> has anyone seen this?
[01:18] <haggai> W: GPG error: http://localhost hoary Release: Unknown error executing gpgv
[01:22] <mdz> haggai: do you have gnupg installed?
[01:22] <lamont> haggai: you building in a chroot and running apt in the chroot?
[01:22] <lamont> or outside the chroot without gnupg installed.
[01:23] <mdz> haggai: that means that waitpid() returned something unexpected after trying to fork-and-exec gpgv
[01:23] <haggai> I have gnupg installed, and am running in the chroot
[01:24] <lamont> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd root    549947608 Jan 19 23:27 livecd-20050119.5-ia64.cloop-1024:65536
[01:24] <lamont> woot!
[01:24] <haggai> lamont: I've seen the same thing in 2 seperate chroots
[01:25] <haggai> lamont: and, I'm trying to get sbuild working.  Have you had the situation where it fails to install any build deps?
[01:27] <azeem> haggai: what's the error message?
[01:27] <haggai> azeem: I don't get any error message, just that W: line, and another one suggesting an apt-get update
[01:29] <azeem> I think you need to run apt-get update in the chroot once to actually have the lists around, did you do that?
[01:29] <haggai> yes I did
[01:29] <haggai> same error
[01:30] <azeem> are you running sbuild from ~/build? do you have links to your chroot in there?
[01:31] <mdz> daniels: for some reason, when I reboot from GNOME on the live CD, I don't see the shutdown messages until the very end
[01:32] <mdz> daniels: it seems unlikely to be livecd-specific
[01:32] <mdz> I haven't tested on a standard install
[01:32] <mdz> I get vc1 for a moment, and then a blank screen
[01:33] <daniels> mdz: ack, I've seen that also; depends how I shut down
[01:33] <daniels> mdz: if I just click through, it's fine
[01:33] <daniels> mdz: it's likely to be due to our start-gdm-earlier stuff
[01:34] <daniels> mdz: which has already had weird interactions with XKeepsCrashing if it fires at the wrong time
[01:34] <mdz> daniels: yeah, I've seen that too
[01:34] <mdz> daniels: I end up at the XKeepsCrashing dialog with my keyboard in raw mode
[01:34] <mdz> I just pound keys until I get out by sheer luck
[01:34] <thully> The hotplug issue is fixed
[01:35] <lifeless> daniels: so how can an X client force the server to leak. Surely thats bad ?
[01:35] <daniels> lifeless: no, not at all
[01:35] <thully> This actually should fix another issue I had - in the normal installer, my wi-fi wasn't available as a network interface to configure
[01:35] <daniels> lifeless: you ask X to allocate a pixmap for you, then you never free it
[01:35] <daniels> lifeless: the whole server/client thing means that pixmaps, et al, need to be stored server-side as well
[01:35] <mdz> hda: dma_intr: error=0x01 { AddrMarkNotFound }, LBAsect=135032251, sector=135032072
[01:35] <mdz> that does not look good at all
[01:35] <lifeless> daniels: but when the client dies, surely you can walk back to the clients resources and free them.
[01:36] <daniels> lifeless: not as such, because you can share them aiui
[01:36] <daniels> lifeless: as they're just identified by an integer
[01:36] <haggai> azeem: I'm running from ~build and there is a link to the chroot in there, and it finds it too
[01:36] <lifeless> mmm, you could still know that the client that allocated it has gone, and I presume there are protocol to enable sharing (else it would be a security hole), so you can count as they get shared.
[01:37] <daniels> lifeless: how would it be a security hole?
[01:37] <daniels> lifeless: if you have access to the display, you own it
[01:37] <daniels> lifeless: (just hide all the other windows and pop up one of your own that looks like Firefox doing internet banking)
[01:37] <daniels> (or, more subtly, just grab all input)
[01:37] <lifeless> client A has pixmap with the map for foo on it, client B is rogue and copies that pixmap.
[01:38] <daniels> if client B is rogue, you have already lost in so many ways it's irrelevant
[01:38] <lifeless> daniels: eek
[01:38] <daniels> client B just pops up a window that's a direct screen-scrape of client A's
[01:38] <daniels> or looks like a password dialog or something
[01:39] <daniels> again: if an untrusted client has access, you have already lost
[01:40] <haggai> azeem: hmm, not sure what it was that I changed but it's giving me a proper error now
[01:40] <mdz> thully: thanks for testing
[01:40] <daniels> there was a pretty half-arsed XSECURITY extension to try and control inter-client exchanges, but it was badly thought out, badly implemented, and even sun has long considered it a very poor idea
[01:40] <daniels> the selinux guys are doing interesting things on that front, though
[01:40] <mdz> thully: that was fast; I thought you were on a modem :-)
[01:40] <robtaylor_> daniels: so if you have  client that allocates pixmaps (i.e. everything nowadays, no?) and it crashes regularly, that causes an irrecoverable memleak in the server?
[01:40] <azeem> haggai: heh, can you make something out of it?
[01:41] <daniels> robtaylor_: quite possibly
[01:41] <thully> mdz - I downloaded it at another PC (not at home) where there's high speed net
[01:41] <daniels> robtaylor_: iirc gtk's segfault handler will clean up quite well, for one
[01:41] <thully> I got the hoary install iso too
[01:41] <thully> will test that next
[01:41] <lifeless> so, evolution borks regularly for me... ah gtk ok.
[01:41] <robtaylor_> daniels: ah thats good to know ;0
[01:41] <haggai> azeem: yeah, it's a build-dep not in main
[01:42] <thully> mdz: This should take care of an issue with the installer not finding my wi-fi (in install mode) as well...
[01:42] <robtaylor_> daniels: surely theres a way to refcoun them, as long as they're not MIT-SHM?
[01:42] <robtaylor_> hell you can even refcount then, but that gets icky
[01:42] <mdz> thully: the install iso will not have the wireless firmware fix yet
[01:42] <haggai> azeem: I wonder if apt-proxy and authenticated apt have problems; I switched sources.list
[01:42] <daniels> robtaylor_: probably, but you could also just pass the reference over to someone else out-of-band and they could use it later :)
[01:42] <mdz> the next daily build will
[01:42] <mdz> we did a new live CD build manually
[01:43] <haggai> mdz: is there a config file option to disable the authentication stuff, or is it only a command line switch?
[01:43] <mdz> haggai: both
[01:43] <haggai> mdz: apt, I mean
[01:43] <robtaylor_> daniels: gosh, didnt think that was possible... urrgle
[01:43] <haggai> mdz: ah, an undocumented one then :)
[01:43] <mdz> haggai: man apt-get
[01:43] <azeem> haggai: bob2 had problems with authenticated apt and sbuild as well
[01:44] <thully> I have to go now... I'll check out install iso later
[01:44] <mdz> haggai: by design, all apt command-line flags have a corresponding configuration item
[01:44] <azeem> haggai: which version of sbuild are you using?
[01:44] <bob2> very weird ones
[01:44] <haggai> mdz: ah, I see, the config option is with the command switch
[01:44] <haggai> azeem: from unstable
[01:44] <daniels> robtaylor_: aiui, this is the case, but client-side x library stuff isn't my forte
[01:44] <haggai> azeem: I patched in hoary as a distro
[01:44] <haggai> mdz: thx
[01:44] <robtaylor_> daniels: is it anyones? ;)
[01:44] <robtaylor_> (rhetorical..)
[01:45] <daniels> robtaylor_: heh ... maybe owen taylor's
[01:45] <azeem> haggai: if you tell me how to disable authenticated apt, I'll add that to the options sbuild passes to apt
[01:45] <robtaylor_> daniels: theres some scary s**t in there, i remeber that much =)
[01:46] <haggai> azeem: --allow-unauthenticated
[01:46] <haggai> azeem: I don't know if it's necessary, though, assuming it all works
[01:46] <azeem> I guess that will break on apt from unstable
[01:47] <haggai> azeem: I think it might just be a problem with my local setup and apt-proxy.  Still, you do have to manually install gnupg in the sbuild chroot before it works
[01:47] <haggai> azeem: true
[01:47] <bob2> azeem: yah, is there a need for it to limit the valid distros?
[01:47] <daniels> robtaylor_: heh, yah
[01:47] <daniels> robtaylor_: 'swhy I steer clear
[01:47] <azeem> bob2: no, and I proposed to just check whether there is ~/build/chroot-$dist
[01:48] <lamont> hrmpf.  somebody upload something, k?
[01:48] <robtaylor_> daniels: heh, sounds a sane plan to me ;)
[01:48] <bob2> azeem: oh, that would be awesome
[01:48] <robtaylor_> daniels: keithp probably once understood it ;)
[01:49] <azeem> bob2: I'm gonna send of a 'ok to commit mail?' to nudge frankie
[01:49] <azeem> off, even
[01:49] <bob2> woo
[01:50] <azeem> of course, now I have to patch that check out locally here again, or finally figure out how to use sbuild with a chroot on GNU/Hurd
[01:51] <mdz> amd64 live CD looks good
[01:51] <mdz> daniels: fb fix confirmed
[01:51] <lamont> mdz: ok to build a new livecd fs?
[01:52] <mdz> lamont: yes, thanks
[01:52] <daniels> mdz: phat
[01:52] <mdz> daniels: whatever that shutdown bug is, it's definitely worse now
[01:52] <mdz> I never saw it before today
[01:53] <lamont> our sbuild doesn't limit the valid distros
[01:54] <lamont> azeem: bob2: ^^^
[01:54] <sivang> mdz: shutting downd the hd and repowering it before complete shutdown?
[01:54] <bob2> lamont: the one you're running on buildds or the one in hoary?
[01:54] <sivang> I also got a segfault there once in a while..
[01:54] <mdz> sivang: blank screen instead of shutdown messages
[01:54] <lamont> actually, that reminds me... I need to send neruo my patches for separating the distros in to their own directories
[01:54] <lamont> buidlds
[01:54] <lamont> the one in hoary is the same nobody-uses-it version as debians
[01:54] <sivang> mdz: eh, havn't tested reboot with latest update then.
[01:54] <daniels> mdz: it's always been present for me
[01:55] <daniels> mdz: except it's OK when I shut down from within GNOME
[01:57] <azeem> lamont: what exactly do you mean, seperating the distros in to their own directories?
[01:58] <lamont> build-$dist/chroot-$dist is the build directory
[01:58] <lamont> lets me build different $dists in the same buildd, with different chroots
[01:58] <lamont> or (what we'll first use it for): rebuild everything from scratch, stealing idle time from the buildd, to look for ftbfs's
[01:58] <azeem> ah, ok
[01:59] <haggai> lamont: very nice
[01:59] <lamont> the non-trivial part is that some things need to stay in build/, while other stuff moves to build-$dist.
[01:59] <azeem> yeah
[01:59] <lamont> and I still have a few loose ends
[01:59] <lamont> buildd-watcher and I are not particularly on good terms right now.
[02:01] <lamont> $conf::separate_distributions
[02:02] <lamont> happy happy joy joy
[02:04] <mdz> daniels: I'm talking about within GNOME
[02:04] <mdz> daniels: that used to work fine
[02:04] <mdz> daniels: and now it doesn't
[02:04] <sivang> lamont: ran and stimpy?
[02:04] <daniels> mdz: unreproducible. i've gotta run for an hour (new phone!), so i can take a look after that
[02:09] <lamont> sivang: that could be where I got that from
[02:09] <lamont> it's been a while
[02:09] <lamont> mdz: the build logs already have all of the entry points linked from DeveloperResources
[02:10] <mdz> lamont: ok, thanks
[02:10] <jdub> daniels: do you know about this crazy capslock per-top-level window foo?
[02:11] <haggai> lamont: how did you do the ccaching on the buildds?
[02:11] <lamont> /home/buildd/ccache is bind mounted as /home/buildd/.ccache in each of the chroots on the machine
[02:11] <lamont> then we shim gcc into 'ccache gcc' everywhere
[02:12] <haggai> how do you do that?  changing the default path to include the trampolines?
[02:13] <haggai> lamont: in /usr/lib/ccache?
[02:13] <lamont> gcc-3.3 is dpkg-diverted
[02:13] <haggai> heh
[02:13] <haggai> did you not know about /usr/lib/ccache, or did you find it did not always work?
[02:14] <bob2> haha
[02:14] <lamont> ccache actually came second.. tweaking gcc options came first
[02:14] <haggai> ah :)
[02:15] <lamont> which reminds me - I need to hijack g{cc,++}-3.4 as well.
[02:15] <haggai> try putting /usr/lib/ccache at the front of $PATH
[02:15] <haggai> that should be future proof
[02:15] <mdz> that's what I use
[02:15] <haggai> uh, except ccache doesn't have the gcc-3.4 trampolines yet :-/
[02:16] <bob2> someone should start hacking on ldcache
[02:16] <mdz> haggai: can't you upload to main now? ;-)
[02:18] <haggai> mdz: yeah point taken :)
[02:29] <lamont> mdz: I'm thinking I could just add the timing to the Developer Resources page.. Or I could move the BuildLogs to a new page that talks about 'what happens after I upload my source'
[02:31] <lamont> ls build.live/chroot-hoary/build/chroot-livecd/etc/init.d/dbus-1 
[02:31] <lamont> build.live/chroot-hoary/build/chroot-livecd/etc/init.d/dbus-1
[02:32] <mdz> lamont: sure, whatever works
[03:10] <sivang> mdz: read your thread about clicking an apt source and it get's added to the list, do I need to install some plugin for this to work?
[03:11] <sivang> mdz: (doesn't work for me out of the box)
[03:11] <mdz> sivang: what exactly did you click on?
[03:11] <mjg59> daniels: Jesus. xglx is /usable/.
[03:12] <sivang> mdz:  let's put it that way, what should I click on? something looking like this deb http://... ?
[03:12] <mdz> sivang: the functionality that you're talking about does not exist yet
[03:12] <mdz> but if it were implemented, it would be as a MIME type
[03:13] <mdz> and so you would need a file with the information in it
[03:14] <sivang> mdz: yes, but how can we identify deb [space]  http://... does MIME types allow for spaces in a "uri" ?
[03:14] <mdz> sivang: I don't have time to explain this
[03:14] <mdz> my hard drive seems to be failing
[03:15] <sivang> mdz: maxtor?
[03:15] <mdz> IBM
[03:16] <sivang> hmm..the same, got on server down with 2 IBM disk failing about roughly one month one from the other..ergg.
[03:16] <daniels> away
[03:16] <daniels> jdub: this WHAT?
[03:16] <jdub> daniels: whichwhichwhat?
[03:20] <daniels> jdub: caps-lock-per-top-elvel
[03:21] <jdub> daniels: so put on caps lock
[03:22] <jdub> daniels: mouse around your windows
[03:22] <jdub> daniels: caps lock now seems to be a per-top-level-window setting ;)
[03:23] <daniels> jdub: no way
[03:23] <daniels> i use ctrl:nocaps, anyway ;)
[03:23] <mjg59> daniels: I just had a see through terminal on top of a video window with drop shadows AND IT WAS ALMOST WATCHABLE
[03:23] <daniels> jdub: oh my god, that's absolutely frightening
[03:23] <daniels> mjg59: isn't it great how gl makes us all more productive?
[03:23] <mjg59> I love gl
[03:24] <mjg59> Pls to be providing more gl-based crack k thx bye
[03:24] <mjg59> daniels: You'll be amused by this. I had to increase my colour depth to get xglx to work.
[03:24] <mjg59> When I restarted X, it wouldn't start
[03:24] <mjg59> It gave a VBE error
[03:24] <daniels> mjg59: hah
[03:24] <mjg59> I did a vbetool vbestate restore AND IT WORKED
[03:25] <daniels> ... wack
[03:25] <jdub> daniels: i have no idea where it is in the stack :)
[03:25] <thully> hi everyone
[03:25] <thully> mjg59: any luck w/ that BIOS?
[03:25] <daniels> jdub: i blame svu
[03:26] <mjg59> thully: Not as yet
[03:26] <mjg59> It's being worked on
[03:26] <mdz> fuck IBM
[03:26] <mdz> there is a hard drive firmware update available which is rumoured to fix this problem
[03:26] <mdz> but it is only installable from DOS
[03:26] <mdz> and is too large to fit on a floppy
[03:26] <mjg59> Always keep a DOS partitoin
[03:27] <mdz> keep? no.  convert a swap partition into? maybe
[03:27] <mjg59> Haha
[03:27] <mdz> I don't even know if freedos will see my SCSI disk
[03:27] <mdz> mjg59: which you would use in order to update the firmware on said disk?
[03:27] <mdz> :-)
[03:27] <thully> where can I get it?  I could see if I can get freedos on this machine (man I wish I had a floppy drive now...)
[03:28] <thully> mjg59: did you see my e-mails about reworking suspend?
[03:29] <mjg59> thully: Yeah, but I haven't had much of a chance to take a look at that stuff today
[03:29] <mjg59> Ought to get to it before the weekend
[03:29] <thully> OK - sounds good
[03:30] <thully> So far, so good with the live cd - a few glitches, but is to be expected with a daily snapshot
[03:31] <jdub> mjg59: can you think of any weird livecd/power-management interactions?
[03:32] <daniels> mjg59: heh
[03:33] <mjg59> None spring to mind - why?
[03:33] <thully> one thing i've noticed, though, is that getting through the network step when there is no wi-fi near and you're not plugged into a LAn network is a pain
[03:33] <thully> that would be the network step of debian-installer, both on the live cd and install cd
[03:34] <thully> yes - I can
[03:34] <jdub> mjg59: would be good to pimp the livecd for power management, particularly at preview
[03:34] <thully> I put my laptop to sleep from the live CD, and when it woke up I couldn't execute any programs
[03:35] <thully> I did do a simple echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep, though - however this has worked for me from HD installs
[03:36] <thully> I just got an I/O error for each thing I tried to run
[03:36] <mdz> did the hard drive spin back up?
[03:36] <thully> I was booted from live CD
[03:36] <thully> I never accessed the HD
[03:37] <thully> BTW - I have no system tray applets on the current live cd build (no volume, battery, etc) - is this a known issue?
[03:38] <mdz> it might be related to a known bug, I'm not sure
[03:39] <thully> BTW - why was the default for autohinter switched from on to off?  I liked autohinter...
[03:39] <jdub> mdz: actually, that's an interesting problem
[03:39] <jdub> mdz: panel chooses default configuration at install time based on laptop-detect
[03:40] <jdub> (because it's not possible to do it at run time atm)
[03:40] <jdub> mdz: and fontconfig chooses subpixel based on laptop-detect
[03:42] <thully> yes - I know subpixel is chosen based on laptop-detect - however, I wonder why autohinter isn't used also (on both laptop/desktop)  This seemed to make the fonts look much better (and was the default on hoary until recently)
[03:43] <bob2> mjg59: are dell's generally useless for sleep/resume without a new dsdt?
[03:43] <mjg59> thully: Autohinter works very badly with sub-pixel
[03:43] <mjg59> bob2: Depends on the Dell. 
[03:43] <thully> In my experience, it has worked beautifully - that's funny.
[03:43] <mdz> jdub: so I guess I should dpkg-reconfigure them from casper
[03:44] <mjg59> thully: Try small font sizes with sub-pixel anti-aliasing and the autohinter
[03:44] <mjg59> Without the autohinter, 6-point fonts are readable. With it, they're a blurry mess of colour.
[03:44] <mjg59> If the autohinter could be enabled above a certain size, that would be a good compromise
[03:45] <thully> I've had problems like that - but only on KDE, GNOME has always been fine (however, I don't use many 6-pt fonts)
[03:45] <mjg59> Heh. All my terminals are 6-point
[03:46] <thully> well - I'll try this - but I thought autohinter was working well before
[03:46] <thully> the fonts looked like some of the best I've ever seen, especially on xorg w/latest freetype
[03:47] <daniels> mjg59: you could probably wrap the autohinter definition in a if size > 6 glob
[03:47] <thully> What did you think of autohinter >6pt, ou of curiosity
[03:47] <mjg59> A slight improvement, I think
[03:47] <mjg59> Oh, except on foreign fonts
[03:47] <thully> For me, it seems great - may depend on the TFT.
[03:48] <mjg59> The problem seems to be with fonts with fine details, which can be latin characters at small sizes or more intricate characters at larger sizes
[03:48] <thully> Well, put something in the installer or the definition to not use autohinter on these fonts
[03:49] <mjg59> thully: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/fonts.jpg - small font with autohinter
[03:49] <thully> I wonder why KDE is always worse than GNOME with these fonts... seems weird
[03:49] <mjg59> (sub-pixel is actually switched off in that one)
[03:50] <thully> I see - you like small fonts in your terminals :)
[03:51] <thully> I just use the default in GNOME's terminal, whatever that is
[03:53] <thully> The thing that has caused the most trouble with the new live CD is how long it takes to boot.
[03:53] <bob2> ogra_: congrats!
[03:54] <thully> Part of this is that the installer makes it take a long time to get through network configuration without configuring a network (and you can't pick wi-fi if wi-fi isn't currently in range, on both the live and install cds)
[03:56] <mdz> my system is always connected to a network, so I haven't noticed
[03:56] <daniels> mdz: so ntpdate doesn't bite you in the arse :P
[03:57] <thully> well - I'm on a laptop, and I'm on and off dial-up and wi-fi
[03:57] <thully> ntpdate always errors for me on boot
[03:59] <thully> any way that the application-switching buttons on the taskbar could be enlarged?
[04:01] <mdz> daniels: oh, you're fixing that?
[04:02] <mdz> thully: right-click, preferences, Size tab
[04:03] <daniels> mdz: well, you asked me to ...
[04:04] <thully> I think they should be bigger by default - as they only take up this tiny area of the bottom taskbar and only show 1 character of the app name by default.
[04:04] <mdz> ah, didn't see your followup comment
[04:05] <thully> mdz: I can't find preferences - only properties and size there changes the size of the whole panel, not just the task buttons
[04:05] <daniels> mdz: i assume we want it for hoary, no?
[04:06] <mdz> daniels: yes
[04:06] <daniels> phat
[04:06] <mdz> thully: you need to right-click on the nub between the 'show desktop' button and the leftmost windowlist item
[04:07] <thully> OK - sorry about that
[04:07] <thully> Also, could somebody look into the network configuration part of the installer and make it more friendly to people who don't want to configure any network card, or who want to configure a network card but who aren't connected at the moment
[04:08] <thully> Or they could just be auto-configured outside the install and something like ifplugd could be used
[04:09] <jdub> ugh, fuse is merged in -mm
[04:11] <daniels> thully: as I understand it, there's a 'I'm not on a network right now' option
[04:12] <thully> I didn't see it - I just saw ethernet and wireless
[04:12] <thully> Also, is it really needed during the install, if somebody isn't doing a net install?
[04:12] <daniels> think: updates
[04:12] <daniels> also configuring the network for the first time as to essid/ip/whatever
[04:13] <daniels> not everyone has dhcp
[04:13] <thully> It seems like it would be better to leave this for post-install
[04:14] <thully> is anything being done with respect to ifplugd and the like (I know they were going to use NetworkManager, but decided against it)
[04:14] <jdub> no, we've punted that to the next release
[04:14] <jdub> will most likely be NM
[04:15] <mdz> thully: the common case is that the system is connected to a network, and it makes sense to bring it up immediately
[04:15] <thully> daniels: also, if you want to configure wi-fi it refuses to configure unless you are actually at a WAP
[04:15] <mdz> on the live CD, it should fall back to not configuring the network, but that's polish for later
[04:15] <thully> will the live CD use DHCP by default?
[04:16] <mdz> that is what it does, yes
[04:16] <mdz> so when I boot it in my laptop, I end up with the network available automatically, which is what I want
[04:17] <thully> It seems like this network configuration should be modified to 1)allow somebody to configure wi-fi without being in range of a WAP 2)allow multiple network devices to be configured 3)have a clear option for "no network"
[04:19] <mdz> there are far higher priorities at the moment
[04:19] <mdz> for those currently working on the release, anyway
[04:20] <mdz> if you or someone else are interested in making those improvements, that would be great
[04:20] <thully> OK - I know that there are more pressing issues - this network configuration step just seemed a bit confusing at this point
[04:21] <mdz> it is, in some corner cases
[04:21] <mdz> but most users don't encounter the problems you've described
[04:21] <thully> well, many people still have dial-up - and they would encounter this
[04:21] <mdz> only if they also have ethernet and wireless interfaces that they aren't using
[04:22] <thully> OK - well, maybe it isn't that common - still, many systems have built-in ethernet and/or wireless
[04:23] <mdz> yes, my laptop does for example
[04:23] <mdz> but I use them, and they can be configured automatically
[04:24] <thully> OK - I've used these also, when I'm in range of wireless
[04:24] <mdz> in fact I think we have the same laptop
[04:24] <mdz> we just have different network environments
[04:24] <thully> T42?
[04:24] <mdz> yes
[04:24] <thully> well, maybe different T42 - but same basic laptop
[04:26] <thully> I'm going to close some bugs soon - there are some which are too trivial to consider at this point, and some others that have been made obsolete that I've reported (especially the ones involving warty's live cd)
[04:26] <mdz> the new live CD should address many of the bugs in warty's live cd, yes
[04:28] <thully> Also, I'll take a look at the timezone issues and the network config process - I don't think I can do anything about the network config because I don't know a whole lot about programming at this point (that will change soon, though)
[04:32] <thully> One more thing I noticed on the Hoary live CD - root has a password set, and it is "ubuntu" - is this intentional?
[04:41] <lamont> moo
[04:43] <thully_> hi - just have an erratic net connection right now
[04:43] <daniels> thom: next time you upload php4, want to get rid of debian/php4-imap?
[04:45] <thully_> I'm going in a minute to try this install CD out, but first, what is the status of sound servers in Hoary - will it be polypaudio, or esd?  Also, will this be configured to relinquish /dev/dsp after a few seconds, as it was configured in Warty?
[04:53] <mdz> daniels: one of the GL screensavers is causing my laptop to hang
[04:54] <thully> where do I get the HD firmware that may fix the problem?  is it from IBM or another source (I don't want to risk voiding the warranty)
[04:55] <daniels> mdz: AWESOME
[04:55] <mdz> daniels: cubenetic
[04:55] <mdz> at least
[04:55] <mdz> I just ran through them and that one hung it
[04:55] <daniels> mdz: do you have option DynamicClocks?
[04:55] <Nafallo> daniels: is it my fault or your fault that my laptop have a black screen with using fglrx amd64?
[04:55] <mdz> dunno
[04:55] <daniels> mdz: look at xorg.conf
[04:56] <mdz> need to reboot
[04:56] <daniels> Nafallo: ati's fault
[04:56] <daniels> mdz: blegh
[04:56] <mdz> damn, not even sysrq+b works
[04:56] <daniels> nice!
[04:56] <mdz> HCF
[04:56] <Nafallo> daniels: ahh, so you got more reports of this then?
[04:56] <daniels> that's impressive
[04:56] <daniels> hcf?
[04:56] <lamont> daniels: how likely are you to upload another xorg before I finish mirroring the last one?
[04:56] <daniels> Nafallo: not really, but it's a driver bug ...
[04:56] <mdz>   HCF /H-C-F/ n. Mnemonic for `Halt and Catch Fire', any of several
[04:56] <mdz>      undocumented and semi-mythical machine instructions with destructive
[04:56] <mdz>      side-effects, supposedly included for test purposes on several
[04:56] <mdz>      well-known architectures going as far back as the IBM 360.
[04:56] <daniels> lamont: not; i'm being gentle and waiting a day or two for the next upload
[04:57] <daniels> mdz: heh
[04:57] <lamont> daniels: a day or 2 is about when I'll finish mirroring...
[04:57] <lamont> the mirror happens at ~3KBytes/sec
[04:58] <daniels> lamont: 'yes'
[04:58] <lamont> daniels: heh
[04:59] <daniels> lamont: seeding the mirror on dsl still hurts
[04:59] <daniels> lamont: i386+powerpc+source+all basically took me a fortnight
[04:59] <lamont> daniels: yeah, but even 30KB is better than 3KB...
[05:00] <lamont> for the large jobs, I go snarf it down in town at 1.5Mbit
[05:00] <lamont> because 150-160KBytes/sec is much better than 3. :-)
[05:01] <daniels> heh :)
[05:01] <thully> Oh - I do all my downloading on a school connection - why download an ISO at 2.5 kbps when you can get it at 500kbps?
[05:01] <lamont> if I can't get dsl, I may colo a box at my buddy's place, and keep the mirror fresh there, then go rsync it over 802.11 from his driveway to my laptop....
[05:01] <lamont> thully: yeah - i need to go make some friends in CS at the local uni
[05:02] <thully> It's reassuring to know that there is someone else without high-speed net on this planet
[05:02] <lamont> thully: I live at the end of a 29km (18 mile) 802.11 link
[05:02] <lamont> so it's actually reasonabl bandwidth, but it's metered...
[05:02] <mdz> daniels: no DynamicClocks
[05:03] <lamont> at 30kbits, I can suck on the pipe all month and my normal activity doesn't push me too close to quota limits
[05:03] <mdz> daniels: you want copies of any logs or config files?
[05:03] <lamont> thully: but it still sucks...
[05:03] <thully> I didn't know you could do that far of a wi-fi link except proof-of-concept
[05:04] <thully> I can download a whole ISO at school in the time it takes me to get half a kernel update deb on my modem
[05:04] <lamont> thully: it's not cheap, it doesn't like weather, but it is w/in FCC limits
[05:04] <lamont> interestingly, rain isn't so bad.  snow on the far end kills it.
[05:05] <lamont> and $100 antennas become very familiar. :-)
[05:05] <lamont> daniels: .au is 120V or 240?
[05:05] <mdz> mjg59: heh, doing STR during a live CD session booted from a USB drive -> NOT happy
[05:05] <mdz> the CD doesn't come back
[05:06] <thully> is it really that much better than dial-up if you have to limit it to 30kbps?
[05:06] <lamont> thully: for my normal activity (ssh, web  surfing, etc), I don't throttle it.
[05:07] <lamont> the mirroring is throttled so that I can spread the cost of fetching things over enough time to not matter.
[05:07] <thully> I just end up using wi-fi at various places a lot
[05:07] <lamont> you see, any 5 minute period where the total usage is < 56kbps gets discarded from the bill... Anything over 56kbps counts towards quota
[05:07] <lamont> yeah - I'm pretty well known at a couple coffee houses in town
[05:08] <thully> that's why I hated it when I tried several linux distros and they didn't support my wi-fi - but Ubuntu works fine with it
[05:08] <lamont> that's the goal: "it just works"
[05:09] <lamont> mdz: is baz 1.1 going into the archive?
[05:09] <lamont> s/the archive/hoary/
[05:10] <thully> yes - but my suspend only works properly on hoary, not warty (I have to use suspend-to-disk since suspend-to-RAM is royally messed up on my T42 with its battery usage)
[05:13] <thully> btw, mdz: you have a link for that HD firmware update that may fix the problem?
[05:18] <mdz> thully: that's for DeskStar hard drives
[05:18] <mdz> not the thinkpad ones, if that's what you're thinking of
[05:18] <mdz> but here it is: http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=psg1MIGR-42215
[05:19] <mdz> lamont: I expect we will be badgered into it, yes
[05:19] <daniels> mdz: sure, but doubt uit will be much good
[05:19] <daniels> lamont: 240
[05:19] <thully> oh - I thought you were saying that was a fix for T42 suspend
[05:19] <mdz> daniels: this didn't happen previously
[05:19] <daniels> mdz: how recently did it start happening?
[05:19] <lamont> mdz: he was of the opinion that it had been pre-approved in mataro...
[05:19] <lamont> just oh by the way...
[05:19] <mdz> daniels: first time I saw it was ~yesterday
[05:20] <daniels> mdz: could you please roll back xlibmesa-gl and xlibmesa-dri to ubuntu10 and see if it's alright?
[05:21] <mdz> daniels: hmm, I just tried reproducing under a normal boot, rather than live CD
[05:22] <mdz> daniels: and the window freezes, I no longer get mouse events anywhere
[05:22] <mdz> but the pointer is alive
[05:22] <mdz> and my ssh session is alive
[05:22] <mdz> nothing in dmesg
[05:22] <thully> OK - leaving now, bye
[05:22] <mdz> but the X server is definitely fucked
[05:22] <daniels> mdz: wack
[05:22] <daniels> mdz: if I can find out which one of xlibmea-gl or xlibmesa-dri broke it in ubuntu11, that would be awesome
[05:23] <daniels> i suspect it was -dri
[05:23] <mdz> daniels: where can I find an old version?
[05:23] <mdz> looking in the morgue, but don't see it so far
[05:23] <daniels> the morgue on rookery?
[05:23] <daniels> hm
[05:23] <mdz> ah, 2005-01-20
[05:24] <mdz> hm, no, only amd64 there
[05:24] <mdz> I need i386
[05:24] <daniels> mdz: p.u.c/~daniels/xlibmesa-dri_6.8.1-1ubuntu10_i386.deb 
[05:24] <daniels> (still uploading)
[05:25] <mdz> I found it elsewhere
[05:25] <daniels> cool
[05:26] <mdz> whoa, it's huge
[05:26] <daniels> yes
[05:26] <daniels> xlibmesa-dri-dbg is bigger than xserver-xorg-dbg
[05:27] <mdz> daniels: which one should I try first?
[05:27] <daniels> -dri
[05:27] <daniels> you don't need to restart your X server for this one
[05:28] <mdz> well, I need to reboot the machine :-)
[05:28] <daniels> heh :)
[05:28] <daniels> you might want to do full power off
[05:29] <daniels> i.e. power completely out for about 10sec
[05:29] <daniels> since the graphics hardware might be quite badly wedged
[05:30] <mdz> still fucked after downgrading xlibmesa-dri
[05:30] <daniels> try -gl as well
[05:30] <mdz> have to run immediately after
[05:31] <daniels> k
[05:35] <mdz> still broken after downgrading xlibmesa-gl
[05:35] <mdz> have to run, mail me with other stuff to try
[05:36] <daniels> k
[05:39] <wasabi> tihs metacity "lets not pop on top of you" thing is a bit hard to get used to
[05:39] <wasabi> i know it's cool... it's just disconcerting.
[05:49] <wasabi> Man. xcompmgr is so nice.
[05:55] <chrisa> I've never seen anyone mutter 'xcompmgr' and 'nice' in the same sentence
[05:55] <chrisa> Usually the adjective is 'broken', 'laggy' or 'slow'
[05:56] <wasabi> oh it's not slow for me.
[05:56] <wasabi> nvidia. it's only slightly broken (panel is below everything)
[05:56] <wasabi> and it hasn't crashed in the 15 minutes I've been running it!
[06:15] <fabbione> morning
[06:17] <crimsun> moin :)
[06:40] <fabbione> mdz: ping
[06:43] <fabbione> hey doko
[06:51] <aj> mdz around?
[06:51] <daniels> aj: he's out
[06:51] <fabbione> aj: i think he falled asleep not too long ago
[06:56] <Nafallo> ao! thoggen has still a long way to go ;-).
[06:57] <Nafallo> 1,7 frames/sec ;-)
[07:03] <Nafallo> Could I package stuff not in sid for hoary universe and get them pulled in? :-)
[08:04] <toresbe> I got my discs!! ^_^
[08:05] <toresbe> I thought one got a cool little display box if you ordered more than 10?
[08:07] <fabbione> openoffice.org-bin_1.1.3-2.3ubuntu7_sparc.deb
[08:07] <fabbione> uhuh
[08:07] <doko> fabbione: morning!
[08:13] <fabbione> i wonder if the ftpd timeout on jackass has been fixed...
[08:16] <Nafallo> I really do love rosetta :-)
[08:30] <mdz> fabbione: pong
[08:30] <mdz> aj: back
[08:31] <fabbione> mdz: hey.. did you ask elmo to sync alsa 1.0.8-1 from sid? should we so it manually?
[08:31] <fabbione> (#1293)
[08:31] <mdz> I did, and he did it already
[08:31] <aj> mdz: filed a wishlist bug on apt #291338
[08:31] <mdz> alsa-driver |    1.0.8-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Sources
[08:31] <fabbione> ok.. can i close the bug?
[08:31] <mdz> you merged the kernel patch already?
[08:31] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. since 2.6.10-9
[08:32] <fabbione> it's in the bug comments :)
[08:32] <mdz> fabbione: then yes, it can be closed
[08:44] <mdz> jdub: is polypaudio going to happen for hoary, or no?
[08:47] <jdub> mdz: yes, it should
[08:52] <Nafallo> *hmpf* I need theora-mmx, but it won't compile cleanly on amd64 :-(.
[08:59] <d3vic3> doko, ping 
[09:00] <Nafallo> WTF! snow again.
[09:40] <jdub> can you find out from proc if the kernel is tainted?
[09:41] <mdz> doesn't lsmod tell you?
[09:42] <ajmitch> no, it doesn't appear to
[09:42] <crimsun> cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted
[09:42] <ajmitch> ah, good
[09:42] <fabbione> thanks :-)
[09:43] <crimsun> np
[09:49] <pitti> Morning folks!
[09:49] <crimsun> moin pitti
[09:50] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[09:50] <pitti> elmo: Morning! Ready for the big flood?
[09:54] <fabbione> elmo: sparc.u.c doesn't get any update....
[09:54] <fabbione> is the crontab for the sync running?
[10:01] <pitti> elmo: please sync mysql-dfsg and mysql-dfsg-4.1
[10:10] <Hwolf> Hey. Has OOo2 hit the repro's yet? 
[10:10] <siimo> hi.. is there a bug in the new nautilus 2.9.x ? 
[10:10] <robsta> hi
[10:11] <siimo> the icon labels zoom out smaller than the gnome font size specified
[10:11] <Hwolf> siimo, It'd highly suprize everyone if it was bugfree. :-)
[10:11] <siimo> no i am wondering if this is a bug or feature
[10:11] <Hwolf> That's a different question. :-)
[10:12] <robsta> i'm wondering where Xauth.h could be in hoary
[10:12] <robsta> dpkg -S doesn't tell me
[10:12] <fabbione> guys these are #ubuntu topics
[10:13] <robsta> neither does it seem to be in xorg-6.8.1 src deb
[10:13] <martink> robsta, dpkg -S doesn't work if you don't have the relevant package. It's in libxau-dev
[10:13] <fabbione> robsta: it is in libxauth-dev
[10:13] <fabbione> yeah xau-dev :-)
[10:13] <siimo> its very annoying
[10:13] <Hwolf> Hm. Is OOo2 supposed to be in the repros now? I can see one package, but not the entire load.
[10:13] <siimo> i like the icons 75% zoom 
[10:13] <fabbione> Hwolf: -> #ubuntu
[10:13] <siimo> but icon text zooms out as weel and becomes unreadable
[10:13] <fabbione> siimo: -> #ubuntu
[10:13] <fabbione> these are not topics for this chan please
[10:15] <Hwolf> fabbione. If I open bugbuddy, I should see a list of all programs, right, and another tab with all packages?
[10:16] <fabbione> Hwolf: this is still #ubuntu related topic
[10:16] <fabbione> here we discuss only the development for ubuntu
[10:16] <fabbione> if you need general help please use #ubuntu
[10:16] <Hwolf> Listen me out will you?
[10:16] <robsta> fabbione: thx
[10:16] <fabbione> robsta: np
[10:17] <Hwolf> I just reported a bug, and I just noted the only program that is listed as such in bugbuddy is the cpu-feq-applet. Now I'm not sure if that's a bug, or a borked system.
[10:17] <fabbione> Hwolf: there are people working on OOO2. when it will be in the archive is striclty related to when the packages will be ready
[10:19] <Hwolf> fabbione, what about bugbuddy? 
[10:20] <fabbione> Hwolf: bug number?
[10:21] <Hwolf> I just updated my bug 5641 using bugbuddy for the debug output. But I just noticed that if I try to open the program from the menu it does nothing but piont my browser to buzilla.ubuntu.com, when I had it open the only program listed was the cpu-freq-applet
[10:22] <fabbione> Hwolf: it could be a bugbuddy bug..
[10:23] <seb128> NO :p
[10:23] <fabbione> GTK bug?
[10:23] <seb128> enough GNOME bug, stop here NOW :p
[10:23] <Nafallo> lol
[10:23] <seb128> no, kernel bug
[10:23] <fabbione> seb128: hmm ok
[10:23] <seb128> :)
[10:23] <jdub> that's actually not a bug ;)
[10:23] <seb128> hey jdub 
[10:23] <fabbione> reassign it to me :P
[10:24] <jdub> morning seb128 
[10:24] <fabbione> it's not like 40 or 41 will make any difference
[10:24] <Hwolf> The launcher for the bug-report-tool lists 'gnome-open https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/'
[10:24] <jdub> Hwolf: yes
[10:24] <jdub> Hwolf: that's intended
[10:24] <seb128> jdub: what happened to this tab with the main menu for gnome-panel ? UI freeze is monday and Vincent would really appreciate your advice :p
[10:25] <jdub> seb128: there's acomment on the bug
[10:25] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163501
[10:25] <seb128> no comment from here 
[10:25] <jdub> erm
[10:25] <Hwolf> Seb128, I've updated my weather-applet and notification-applet bugs.
[10:26] <seb128> Hwolf: ok, thanks
[10:26] <jdub> argh
[10:27] <seb128> ah ah
[10:29] <Hwolf> fabbione, is bugbuddy only showing one progam something I should file a bug about, or do I need to let it rest?
[10:29] <seb128> let it
[10:30] <Hwolf> ok
[10:34] <Hwolf> Will at some piont in the future Python 2.3 be uninstalled by an upgrade? 
[10:35] <seb128> jdub: have you tried gnome-launch-box ?
[10:35] <ajmitch> Hwolf: going by how debian does it, no, I doubt it will
[10:35] <ajmitch> unless something were to conflict with & replace python2.3
[10:36] <Hwolf> ajmitch, would you say it is safe to do so? 
[10:36] <jdub> seb128: not yet
[10:36] <jdub> seb128: interested to though :)
[10:36] <seb128> jdub: worth packaging it ? I'm pondering doing it now :p
[10:36] <ajmitch> Hwolf: no, I wouldn't do it :)
[10:36] <jdub> seb128: yeah, might be a cool hoary bling feature ;)
[10:36] <seb128> ok, let's go for it
[10:37] <ajmitch> I've still got python 2.1 through to 2.4 on my sid box
[10:39] <Kamion> Hwolf: these days, I think it's reasonably safe to assume that anything that wants python2.3 will depend on it
[10:39] <Kamion> so if you can remove it without removing a bunch of other stuff, it's safe
[10:40] <Hwolf> kamion, is there any chance of kernel-panicky-like errors wrecking the system if I try?
[10:40] <ajmitch> it should be safe & clean
[10:41] <Astharot> good morning
[10:42] <Kamion> Hwolf: kernel panic? hell no
[10:43] <Kamion> Hwolf: 'apt-get remove python2.3' and look carefully at what it wants to remove
[10:43] <Hwolf> kamion, I'd not expect a kernel panic, but I'd be pretty pissed off if due to some missing dependency it wrecked dpkg for instance. :-)
[10:44] <Hwolf> Kamion, did that, nothing not labled python2.3-*
[10:44] <Kamion> Hwolf: dpkg doesn't have any pythonish stuff in it (yet, anyway)
[10:51] <Hwolf> Kamion, I'll try it then.
[10:53] <seb128> jamesh: around ?
[10:53] <jamesh> seb128: yeah.
[10:54] <seb128> jamesh: you know how the weather applet works ?
[10:54] <jamesh> seb128: parts of it.  Why?
[10:54] <seb128> jamesh: just wondering where it takes the sunrise/sunset times
[10:54] <jamesh> seb128: it stores the geographic location of weather stations in the Locations.xml file
[10:55] <jamesh> seb128: when you select your location, it copies those coordinates to a gconf key
[10:55] <seb128> jamesh: the issue is: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=1081
[10:55] <jamesh> and then works out the times from that.
[10:55] <seb128> jamesh: look on the sunrise/suntime
[10:55] <seb128> jamesh: http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/EHRD.html is the METAR page for this
[10:55] <seb128> ok
[10:55] <seb128> was wondering if that's a server or applet's bug
[10:56] <seb128> probably a gweather one so ?
[10:56] <Hwolf> seb128, how can I check my location?
[10:56] <jamesh> seb128: the sunrise/sunset calculations are entirely local.
[10:57] <seb128> jamesh: ok, so an applet bug, thanks
[10:57] <seb128> Hwolf: I don't understand the question ? You what to know where you live ? :p
[10:58] <Treenaks> seb128: I have a small GPS-detecting python script for HAL....
[10:58] <Hwolf> seb128, I want to check if I've set my location correctly during install
[10:58] <seb128> Hwolf: cat /etc/timezone
[10:58] <jamesh> seb128: it would either be a bug in the Locations.xml file, or a bug in the calculations.
[10:59] <seb128> jamesh: but the location has only the coordinate and the METAR code, what could be broken in that ?
[10:59] <seb128> jamesh: I mean whatever is the location, 19min between sunset and sunrise ...
[11:02] <jamesh> seb128: in theory, places close to the arctic circle could have very short days
[11:02] <jamesh> seb128: I don
[11:02] <jamesh> 't know whether the calculations take into account twilight.
[11:03] <jamesh> of course, it could just be a bug ...
[11:03] <seb128> jamesh: I'll have a look on the code, I just wanted to know if the informations come from some net place or are calculated, thanks for the comments :)
[11:17] <thom> morning
[11:17] <pitti> Hi thom!
[11:17] <seb128> hey thom & pitti
[11:24] <thom> mozilla-firefox-gnome-support: Depends: mozilla-firefox (=
[11:24] <thom> 1.0+dfsg.1-2ubuntu1) but 1.0-2ubuntu4-warty99 is to be installed
[11:25] <thom> i assume that's ubuntu-backports madness
[11:25] <thom> from #5612
[11:49] <amu> Kamion: what are the differences between 20050120 and .1 ? 
[11:53] <carlos> pitti: do you have around any example *_translations.tar.gz ?
[11:55] <Hwolf> Hm. Why doesn't ubuntu recompile the official iso's of warty to incorporate the updates? It's causing a lot of server load to have every new user grab 100+mb of updates?
[12:03] <fabbione> mjg59, daniels: updating the drm stuff now.. but that will mostlikely require another kernel ABI change
[12:16] <seb128> thom: I hate you :p
[12:17] <thom> hey now, i'm fixing epiphany for you and you say you hate me? that's not very nice :P
[12:18] <seb128> bah, ok, if you fix epiphany I'll forgive you for the gtk bug :p
[12:22] <Kamion> amu: mdz built the first one manually, the second was the automatic daily build: in other words I have absolutely no idea
[12:23] <d3vic3> I need help uploading to universe 
[12:23] <d3vic3> how do I upload to universe ? 
[12:24] <amu> Kamion: ok, thx
[12:24] <Kamion> same way as you upload to Ubuntu in general. :)
[12:25] <d3vic3> I have never uploaded to ubuntu 
[12:25] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: it's on the wiki
[12:25] <d3vic3> which page ?
[12:25] <Kamion> Uploads
[12:26] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: "search" is a nice thingy. :P  (But Kamion's right as well)
[12:26] <Kamion> now it might actually be able to run the 'finish' menu entry
[12:29] <d3vic3> ok found it 
[12:29] <amu> Kamion: any idea why i can't run su - or sudo, with a "root-terminal" from the menu it's possible to get root
[12:29] <Kamion> I don't know, sorry
[12:30] <Kamion> root terminal just uses gksudo I thought
[12:31] <amu> strange, it works just 1 time, not possible to run 2 root-terminals 
[12:36] <Mithrandir> amu: strace the panel from the root terminal?
[12:38] <pitti> carlos: I can generate one
[12:38] <carlos> pitti: could you send me it, please?
[12:39] <carlos> pitti: if it's easy for you to create it, if it's not I can do it
[12:39] <pitti> carlos: is a small one okay? Or do you need one with several files?
[12:39] <pitti> carlos: pmount only has one pot and one po
[12:40] <carlos> pitti: that's ok
[12:40] <carlos> pitti: btw, did you saw last change we did for the tar.gz tree?
[12:41] <pitti> carlos: with the packages files?
[12:41] <pitti> carlos: instead of the hierarchy?
[12:41] <carlos> pitti: the _translations.tar.gz
[12:42] <carlos> pitti: the mail I sent yesterday
[12:42] <pitti> carlos: the flat hierarchy with the text file that contains all package info?
[12:42] <carlos> pitti: yes
[12:42] <carlos> that on
[12:42] <carlos> that one
[12:42] <carlos> pitti: not sure if it affects you or not
[12:42] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/pmount_0.5.1-1_translations.tar.gz
[12:42] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[12:42] <pitti> carlos: yes, I saw it. I liked the idea
[12:42] <pitti> carlos: however, that does not really affect my part
[12:43] <carlos> pitti: ok, that's what I want to know
[12:43] <matt3o> Hi all...
[12:43] <carlos> don't want to change you the way you are doing your work without talking with you
[12:44] <matt3o> I have a strange problem with network-admin.... maybe it can interest to you all...
[12:47] <pitti> carlos: lamont really did a great job. He reduced my part of the work to putting the tarball into <source build dir>/..
[12:47] <carlos> :-)
[12:47] <pitti> carlos: so essentially you can change the publishing structure without touching pkgstriptranslations
[12:56] <no0tic> hi
[12:56] <ajmitch> morning jeff :)
[12:58] <jbailey> g'd evening Andrew!
[12:59] <ajmitch> about 1am here
[12:59] <ajmitch> debs are working ok, I think I might sleep :)
[01:00] <ajmitch> although I do have to get manpages for some..
[01:00] <fabbione> let see if i can kill my box :-)
[01:01] <trukulo> fabbione: use a shotgun
[01:01] <no0tic> /etc/init.d/networking start fails, where can I find logs?
[01:01] <fabbione> UHA UHA IT IS BINARY COMPATIBLE!
[01:01] <fabbione> YES YES YES !
[01:02] <fabbione> ajmitch: btw.. what is the bug number?
[01:02] <fabbione> i didn't get any assigned
[01:02] <ajmitch> 5659
[01:03] <fabbione> hmm why isn't assigned to me?
[01:03] <fabbione> and linux ?
[01:03] <ajmitch> don't know, it got assigned to debzilla@
[01:03] <fabbione> ok brb...
[01:03] <fabbione> i will check it in a few secs...
[01:03] <ajmitch> ok
[01:05] <ajmitch> since there was discussion in #selinux that capabilities may need to be built in, rather than as a module
[01:05] <ajmitch> this hasn't been checked out yet
[01:06] <ajmitch> anyway, time for bed
[01:07] <fabbione> ajmitch_ i had that discussion with Manoj this morning
[01:07] <Keybuk> Bug report submitted to: "Ubuntu Bug Tracking System" <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
[01:07] <fabbione> it's something selinux people have to address upstream
[01:07] <Keybuk> meh ... I expected that to go to the Debian maintainer
[01:07] <ajmitch> alright
[01:12] <fabbione> trulux: ping
[01:14] <trukulo> hi ogra
[01:15] <ogra> hi :)
[01:15] <ogra> i just tested tonights livecd
[01:15] <ogra> the first one that gave me X (even if its only 640x480) on my amd64 laptop :-D
[01:17] <ogra> trukulo: are your graveman packages ready ?
[01:18] <trukulo> ogra: yup
[01:18] <trukulo> at least, 0.3.0-1
[01:19] <trukulo> because there's a new package (that man never rest)
[01:19] <ogra> trukulo: great, then i'll upload the today after work :)
[01:19] <trukulo> superb
[01:19] <ogra> them even
[01:19] <trukulo> there's a 0.3.1
[01:19] <trukulo> but i'll wait at least until 0.3.2 for new package (perhaps tomorrow P )
[01:20] <ogra> yeah, we cant cope with the speed of this guy anyway
[01:20] <trukulo> it's impossible
[01:21] <ogra> looking at the diff.....
[01:21] <ogra> woot !
[01:21] <trukulo> what?
[01:21] <ogra> he uses dev=/dev/hdX now......
[01:22] <trukulo> what?
[01:22] <trukulo> i have to see this
[01:22] <trukulo> Added Polish translation, thanks Marcin Undak <masamune _at_ op.pl>
[01:22] <trukulo> Updated Brazilian Portuguese translation, thanks Andre Luis Lopes <andrelop _at_ debian.org>
[01:22] <trukulo> Fixed mp3 header decoding by using libmad, now required libmad !!
[01:22] <trukulo> where did you see that?
[01:22] <trukulo> Updated files, graveman is now hosted by savannah !
[01:22] <trukulo> in 0.3.0 ?
[01:22] <ogra> trukulo: i'm reading the graveman_0.3.0-1.diff.gz
[01:23] <trukulo> * Fixed ATA and ATAPI devices detection, 2 !
[01:23] <ogra> yup, thats what i mean
[01:23] <trukulo> umm, could be, i didn't try autodetection in ubuntu with 0.3.0
[01:23] <trukulo> can you try it?
[01:23] <ogra> lol: # Attempt to guess a canonical system name.
[01:23] <trukulo> i can't here
[01:23] <ogra> i will....i will just have to compile them for amd64
[01:24] <trukulo> ok, tell me if yo do
[01:31] <thom> fabbione: if you're set up to do it, a merge of linux--dilinger--0--patch-43 would be great (brings in Dothan support for cpufreq)
[01:32] <thom> fabbione: http://www.acm.cs.rpi.edu/~dilinger/patches/2.6.10/as2/linux-2.6.10-as2/043-dothan_p4_get_frequency.patch
[01:32] <fabbione> thom: i got it already and no i cannot use arch for the kernel
[01:32] <fabbione> thom: because it's in debian as well and i sync with them :-)
[01:32] <fabbione> or better.. i synced this morning
[01:33] <thom> ah, cool
[01:34] <fabbione> do you think i am a sloppy kernel maintainer? :P
[01:34] <robtaylor> fabbione: hey. i was looking at jackd stuff last night. apparently the realtime-lsm module needs secuity to be built as a module in the kernel
[01:34] <robtaylor> any chance of this happening at all, or is that a no-go?
[01:35] <fabbione> robtaylor: dude.. you are talking to me like if i can remember everything...
[01:35] <fabbione> yes i do remember..
[01:35] <robtaylor> fabbione: heh ;)
[01:35] <ogra> does anybody know if we plan to have the new ndiswrapper for amd64 in hoary ?
[01:35] <fabbione> but do we need patches?
[01:35] <robtaylor> fabbione: nope, just ap amtter fo setting CONFIG_SECURITY=m
[01:36] <robtaylor> s/ap amtter fo/a matter of/
[01:36] <robtaylor> (!)
[01:36] <fabbione> robtaylor: and did you check if it is already there?
[01:36] <fabbione> because if it is i am going to cross burn you :-
[01:36] <robtaylor> fabbione: in hoary its set as compiled in
[01:37] <thom> fabbione: do you want me to answer that question? :P
[01:37] <fabbione> config SECURITY
[01:37] <fabbione>         bool "Enable different security models"
[01:37] <fabbione>         help
[01:37] <thom> Mithrandir: thanks for the CC
[01:37] <fabbione> robtaylor: you cannot select SECURITY as module
[01:38] <fabbione> that makes it kinda difficult for me to compile it as such
[01:38] <Mithrandir> thom: np.  I suggest we go with whatever Debian does.. it's the least amount of work.
[01:38] <robtaylor> fabbione: hmmmmm
[01:38] <thom> definitely
[01:38] <robtaylor> i wonder what realtime-lsm meant then =)
[01:39] <Mithrandir> thom: I hope they'll just agree that we can have transitional packages and it'll all work out nicely.
[01:39] <thom> it'd be pretty frickin' anal of them not to
[01:40] <mjg59> This is the Mozilla thing?
[01:40] <Mithrandir> yup
[01:40] <Mithrandir> mjg59: what conclusion did the thread on -legal end up with? 
[01:40] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, christ knows
[01:41] <Mithrandir> I skimmed the mail archives but couldn't find any "We'll do $foo, $bar, $baz" and a reply from somebody saying "yes, good."
[01:41] <Mithrandir> but then, I guess that's not how -legal works. :P
[01:41] <mjg59> People keep bikeshedding madly
[01:41] <Kamion> 2005-01-20 12:39:43 GMT Colin Watson <colin.watson@canonical.com>       patch-108
[01:41] <Kamion>     Summary:
[01:41] <Kamion>       Enable ia64 live CDs.
[01:41] <mjg59> Kamion: Rock
[01:41] <ogra> woot
[01:41] <mjg59> For the, uh, 3 people who'll want them? :)
[01:41] <Kamion> might actually work with any luck
[01:41] <Kamion> mjg59: lamont, lamont, and, uh ...
[01:41] <thom> me
[01:41] <Kamion> ... lamont!
[01:41] <mjg59> Wow! 4!
[01:42] <Kamion> lamont said he'll be pimping them to HP people
[01:42] <mjg59> Mithrandir: I think the Mozilla people are fundamentally acting in good faith, but are possibly starting from the wrong place
[01:43] <Mithrandir> mjg59: yeah, sure.  I'm not too worried, but we just want to get it straightened out.
[01:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: Provides from apt
[01:45] <Mithrandir> ok, so python-apt is out of date
[01:45] <Mithrandir> which leaves ubuntu-desktop uninstallable
[01:46] <Kamion> oh you're kidding
[01:46] <mvo_> Mithrandir: it should be updated already
[01:46] <Kamion>    Binaries from python-apt 0.5.32ubuntu4 cannot be installed:
[01:46] <Kamion>        python-apt(i386)
[01:46] <Kamion>    Binaries from ubuntu-meta 0.20 cannot be installed:
[01:46] <Kamion>        ubuntu-desktop(i386)
[01:46] <mvo_> Kamion: I uploaded a new apt this morning
[01:46] <Kamion> maybe it hasn't built
[01:46] <Mithrandir> mvo_: it == python-apt, I guess?
[01:46] <Kamion> if this kills my CD build I'm going to hurt people :P
[01:46] <thom> aaaaargh, why don't the firefox maintainers use dpatch
[01:47] <mvo_> Mithrandir: yes :)
[01:47] <thom> s/dpatch/${PATCHSYSTEM}/
[01:47] <mvo_> Kamion: not this time I hope ...
[01:47] <Kamion> python-apt | 0.5.32ubuntu4 |         hoary | i386
[01:47] <Kamion> python-apt | 0.5.32ubuntu5 |         hoary | amd64, ia64, powerpc, source
[01:47] <Kamion> ARGH
[01:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's successful on i386 as well
[01:47] <Kamion> it's not in the archive yet though
[01:48] <Mithrandir> I wonder where it went, then
[01:48] <Mithrandir> was finished building two minutes ahead of ppc.
[01:48] <pitti> elmo: ping
[01:48] <Mithrandir> what's the timezone on p.u.c?
[01:48] <Kamion> should be UTC
[01:49] <thom> pitti: elmo's net.dead, mostly
[01:49] <pitti> ugh
[01:49] <Kamion> thom: can you have a look at whether python-apt's in accepted?
[01:49] <Kamion> 0.5.32ubuntu5
[01:49] <thom> sure
[01:51] <thom> no, not yet
[01:51] <Kamion> any clue where it's gone? the build was on terranova
[01:52] <Mithrandir> fun, nautilus eats about 500kbit/sec by just having an ssh window open to somewhere.
[01:54] <thom> Kamion: rejected
[01:54] <thom> Kamion: md5sum mismatches
[01:54] <thom> guess the upload went wrong. hrm, wonder if i can retry it from terranova
[01:54] <Kamion> arr
[01:54] <Kamion> it'd be really good if you could
[01:59] <thom> right, they're back in queue/unchecked
[01:59] <thom> lets see how that goes
[02:01] <thom> Kamion: and into accepted
[02:02] <Mithrandir> yay
[02:07] <thom> python-apt | 0.5.32ubuntu5 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[02:08] <thom> just sparc slacking ;p
[02:08] <Mithrandir> huh, I managed to get this:
[02:08] <Mithrandir> W: GPG error: http://ftp.ubuntu.com hoary Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[02:08] <fabbione> thom: i don't think elmo added there...
[02:09] <fabbione> thom: plus sparc.u.c is not updated
[02:09] <Kamion> thom: hooray, thanks
[02:36] <fabbione> thom: can i push concordia a bit over load 300 ??
[02:37] <thom> i'm sure you can try
[02:37] <fabbione> ok
[02:37] <fabbione> than i will raise the CONCURRENCY_LEVEL to 400
[02:37] <fabbione> and see what happens
[02:38] <fabbione> FLY CONCORDIA
[02:43] <fabbione> this machine is NO fun
[02:43] <Treenaks> it just keeps going and going?
[02:43] <fabbione> Treenaks: yes
[02:43] <fabbione> it doesn't feel it at all
[02:43] <Treenaks> nice
[02:43] <fabbione> and it was up to 326 or something
[02:44] <thom> fabbione: 103 currently
[02:44] <fabbione> thom: i know.. it's going down because each process is waiting for the other to finish and link
[02:44] <thom> opteron > *
[02:44] <fabbione> that can't be parallelized as much as compiling
[02:44] <thom> yeah
[02:44] <fabbione> thom: +1
[02:45] <Treenaks> fabbione: now try massively parallel email delivery
[02:45] <fabbione> it's doing all I/O now
[02:46] <fabbione> Treenaks: something like: cd /usr/src/linux-source && for i in $(find . -type f); do mail -s $i treenack@treenack.com < $i &; done ??
[02:47] <fabbione> FLY AGAIN CONCORDIA!
[02:47] <fabbione> YEAHHHH
[02:47] <fabbione> ride the top!
[02:47] <Treenaks> fabbione: 8)
[02:47] <Treenaks> treenack@treenack.com.. I wonder who that is ;)
[02:49] <fabbione> top - 13:49:11 up 6 days, 23:37,  3 users,  load average: 357.26, 186.30, 92.96
[02:49] <fabbione> top - 13:49:36 up 6 days, 23:37,  3 users,  load average: 370.75, 203.17, 101.0
[02:49] <fabbione> going higher :-)
[02:49] <thom> it's a little unresponsive now, but not much
[02:49] <fabbione> 378 :-)
[02:50] <fabbione> can we do better?
[02:50] <fabbione> no..
[02:50] <fabbione> it's already up to 400
[02:50] <fabbione> otherwise it should have gone up to 410 or so
[02:52] <fabbione> thom: please ship me concordia :-)
[02:54] <fabbione> 394!
[02:54] <fabbione> 400!!!1
[02:55] <fabbione> 419.something
[02:55] <thom> fabbione: you're being silly now :-)
[02:55] <fabbione> i know sorry
[02:56] <fabbione> thom: never the less... you are there with top too :)
[02:56] <thom> i think you may have broken something, too :P
[02:57] <fabbione> thom: uh?
[02:57] <fabbione> people's nerves?
[02:57] <fabbione> ;)
[02:58] <thom> jeesh, interactivity is fucked now :-)
[02:58] <fabbione> 425 :-)
[02:58] <fabbione> i tend to believe that
[02:59] <fabbione> it should be dropping now
[02:59] <fabbione> i have 2 kernels left.. and i am done
[02:59] <fabbione> but at these speed...
[02:59] <jdub> fabbione: is there some way to disable rw ntfs mounts entirely?
[02:59] <fabbione> thom: why did you turn off swap?
[03:00] <jdub> fabbione: preferably in the kernel code :)
[03:00] <fabbione> jdub: yes. it's a kernel option
[03:00] <fabbione> 686:# CONFIG_NTFS_RW is not set
[03:00] <fabbione> jdub: it's not enable in our kernels
[03:01] <fabbione> ah no
[03:01] <fabbione> thom: nevermind.. space in swap is finished
[03:01] <thom> fabbione: turn off swap?
[03:01] <thom> ah
[03:02] <fabbione> ok now it's back to normal
[03:02] <jdub> fabbione: hmm
[03:02] <fabbione> jdub: what arch?
[03:02] <jdub> i386
[03:03] <fabbione> it's unset
[03:03] <jdub> it *said* rw, but i choose not to believe it actually is rw until i've double-checked
[03:04] <fabbione> jdub: the writing code is disabled
[03:04] <fabbione> if you try to write it will fail
[03:04] <fabbione> jusst do a touch foo
[03:04] <fabbione> + mount shows ro only when you mount as such
[03:04] <fabbione> check the cdrom's message : warning mounting ro bla bla
[03:05] <jdub> mount said rw
[03:05] <jdub> but i choose not to believe it until i've double checked
[03:06] <fabbione> yeah i get that...
[03:06] <fabbione> try with touch foo
[03:10] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that dpkg bug you just replied to, read the report carefully, look at the code, then look at what he did
[03:10] <Keybuk> it's actually quite funny
[03:11] <Keybuk> the report was, basically, "u-a doesn't bitch if the alternative doesn't exist"
[03:11] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I had to restrain myself to not be actively rude to him.
[03:11] <Mithrandir> heh, ok
[03:11] <Keybuk> the code he changed was "if ($! != &ENOENT)"
[03:12] <Keybuk> ie. "only report if the error message is /anything but/ ENOENT"
[03:12] <Keybuk> all he did by changing $! to $| is break the test
[03:12] <Keybuk> deleting the test entirely would have had the same result
[03:12] <Keybuk> Kamion: did you know groff renders $| as $| ?
[03:12] <Kamion> that seems, er, correct?
[03:13] <Mithrandir> isn't the question whether it renders $! as $|?
[03:13] <Kamion> perlvar(1) looks fine here
[03:13] <Mithrandir> try with g-t?
[03:14] <Keybuk> gah, sorry, I changed my compose map
[03:14] <Kamion> still looks ok, although sid rather than hoary
[03:14] <Kamion> and UTF-8
[03:15] <Kamion> compose map?
[03:15] <Keybuk> maybe I'm being odd
[03:15] <Keybuk> but if I search perlvar for \$\| it doesn't find it
[03:16] <Keybuk> $ is what I get in the output text, not $|
[03:16] <Keybuk> (ie. U+2502 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT VERTICAL, not U+007C VERTICAL LINE = VERTICAL BAR)
[03:17] <smurfix> ouch
[03:17] <Kamion> yeah, same here
[03:18] <Keybuk> I guess this is another - vs \- thing?
[03:18] <Kamion> hm, seems more like rendering of '
[03:19] <Kamion> seems odd, I'd be inclined to disable that "feature"
[03:20] <Kamion> it might be for table drawing, I don't know exactly how tbl works
[03:20] <trulux> pitti: ping
[03:21] <Keybuk> could be
[03:21] <pitti> trulux: pong
[03:22] <Kamion> hm, this is odd
[03:22] <Kamion> ba      24      0       0x007C
[03:22] <Kamion> or      "
[03:22] <Kamion> |       "
[03:22] <Kamion> so it should work
[03:22] <Keybuk> .tr \(*W-|\(bv\*(Tr
[03:22] <Kamion> | must get remapped internally or something, might be a bug
[03:22] <Keybuk> what's that do?
[03:23] <fabbione> daniels, mjg59: ping
[03:23] <Kamion> gar
[03:23] <Kamion> Keybuk: that remaps | to vertical bar, deliberately :P
[03:23] <Kamion> yes, pod2man is being silly
[03:24] <Keybuk> pod2man sucks, Film at 11.
[03:24] <Kamion> IZ POD2MAN BUG
[03:24] <Kamion> pod2man's actually not too bad nowadays; it used to suck much more
[03:25] <Treenaks> isn't it doing Evil & Wrong things with "-" vs "" as well?
[03:26] <trulux> pitti: your email is martin.pitt@canonical.com right?
[03:26] <pitti> trulux: yes
[03:26] <trulux> ajmitch: what's your email?
[03:26] <trulux> pitti: ok thanks
[03:27] <Kamion> Treenaks: yeah, but in pod2man terms that's a relatively recent issue, and tricky to solve correctly
[03:27] <Kamion> actually it seems to get it right in most cases, there are just a few mistakes
[03:28] <Treenaks> like the CGI manpage... -charset stuff
[03:29] <Kamion> pod2man(1) itself seems to be OK though
[03:36] <pitti> Hi lamont!
[03:37] <daniels> fabbione: sup
[03:37] <daniels> fabbione: just about to go to bed
[03:38] <fabbione>   * Backport drm from 2.6.11rc1:
[03:38] <fabbione>     - Add patch stolen-from-head_drm.dpatch.
[03:38] <fabbione>     - Enable matrox drm on x86_64:
[03:38] <fabbione>       . DRM_MGA=m
[03:38] <fabbione> good night :-)
[03:38] <daniels> cool :)
[03:38] <daniels> night dude, thanks a lot
[03:38] <trulux> fabbione: hey
[03:38] <daniels> are we copping an abi bump?
[03:38] <fabbione> and no ABI breakout...
[03:38] <fabbione> trulux: hi
[03:38] <fabbione> daniels: i am not 200% sure for drm modules.. all the others work ok
[03:39] <ogra> fabbione: thanks :) ....  load average: 0.13, 0.15, 0.10
[03:39] <fabbione> daniels: meaning that probably people will have to do a modprobe -r i915 instead of rmmod i915
[03:39] <fabbione> ogra: no problem dude
[03:39] <fabbione> daniels: i am pretty sure that the drm module needs to be reloaded as well but that's kinda new
[03:40] <fabbione> so i don't think we will hit the problem at all
[03:40] <ogra> fabbione: now please ndiswrapper for amd64 ;) ... so i can use my linksys wlan card ....
[03:41] <fabbione> ogra: that is not really trivial...
[03:41] <trulux> fabbione: replied to the bug report about kernel auditing
[03:41] <ogra> fabbione: i just compiled rc3 here .... but there are no 64bit win drivers :-P
[03:44] <fabbione> trulux: yes i saw that...
[03:44] <fabbione> trulux: i need to give it a spin
[03:45] <trulux> fabbione: ok
[03:45] <trulux> NP
[03:45] <fabbione> ogra: and it also involves new userlands
[03:45] <daniels> fabbione: ok, cool
[03:45] <daniels> fabbione: that's fine, thanks
[03:45] <trulux> pitti: who is the man maintaining pam related packages?
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: we don't have particular maintainers in Ubuntu
[03:46] <fabbione> ogra: you need to ask mdz if we can get a new upstream version basically...
[03:46] <fabbione> ogra: since we are in UVF
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: if there is a problem/question, it is usually best to write to ubuntu-devel
[03:46] <fabbione> ogra: i don't have big problems to do it kernel side
[03:46] <ogra> fabbione: ndiswrapper 1.0rc3 has amd64 support built in (including the utils) but its quie useless if you only can load 64bit drivers that dont exist
[03:47] <fabbione> ogra: ok. let's deffer that for a few weeks
[03:47] <fabbione> ogra: perhaps drivers will show up one close to the other
[03:47] <fabbione> at the end we still release every 6 months :-)
[03:47] <ogra> fabbione: or drop it...(i can live with my old orinoco....)
[03:49] <fabbione> ogra: start asking mdz..
[03:49] <fabbione> and i am off for today
[03:49] <ogra> fabbione: relax ;)
[03:49] <fabbione> i need to put fiber glass on the living room's walls
[03:49] <fabbione> relax?
[03:49] <fabbione> are you on somekind of crack?
[03:49] <fabbione> ;)
[03:50] <ogra> fabbione: _you_ chose fiber .... other ppl take wallpaper....
[03:50] <fabbione> you still need to put it up
[03:50] <fabbione> and after i have spent 4 days taking away the last 35 years of danish fashion wall paper, i choose fiber
[03:50] <ogra> fabbione: but it differs a lot   whichmaterial you take (i already did fiber walls)
[03:51] <fabbione> ogra: clearly.. but i don't like wallpaper anyway
[03:51] <ogra> fabbione: and decided to prfer paper in the future ;)
[03:51] <fabbione> eheh
[03:51] <fabbione> ok i really need to get started
[03:51] <ogra> fabbione: go....have fun at least :)
[03:52] <fabbione> it's a 50sqm room and i plan to go to sleep this night :)
[03:52] <fabbione> with lots of nice corners and edges
[03:52] <ogra> heh
[03:52] <fabbione> cya
[03:52] <ogra> ciao
[05:07] <mxpxpod> has anyone here tried gnome-launchbox?
[05:09] <tseng> mxpxpod: id imagine so, seb just added the patch for it to gnome-menus
[05:10] <mxpxpod> tseng: I was trying to figure out what -dev packaged I needed because it said it couldn't find libdb.a
[05:10] <mxpxpod> I needed libdb4.1-dev
[05:26] <sivang> mxpxpod: you
[05:26] <sivang> mxpxpod: you're compilin gfrom jhbuild?
[05:26] <mxpxpod> sivang: no, from source
[05:27] <mxpxpod> and it keeps segfaulting when I type h in it
[05:31] <thom> seb128: i've applied all the patches from live.g.o 
[05:43] <seb128> thom: you rock
[05:51] <sivang> pitti: ping
[05:53] <sivang> pitti: just talked with g-s-t upstrea, he says that he heared about the tendency to move non system-exclusive things out from /etc to other places, what do you think?
[06:00] <pitti> sivang: what do you mean in particular?
[06:07] <sivang> pitti: garnacho says that the reason for not putting the profile stuff under /etc/g-s-t is per an intention to not put no system specific (i.e. distro nutral related programs files) in /etc/
[06:08] <sivang> pitti: g-s-t is multi platform tool, thus it's conffiles are put elsewhere.
[06:08] <Kamion> that's ... odd
[06:08] <sivang> pitti: (according to upstream maintainer)
[06:08] <Kamion>  /etc is everyone's configuration space, not just the distribution's
[06:09] <Kamion> well
[06:09] <T-Bone> Kamion: did you get my last 'report' on ia64?
[06:09] <Kamion> g-s-t might want to default to /usr/local/etc
[06:09] <Kamion> our g-s-t package should still put its configuration in /etc
[06:09] <pitti> sivang: right, that's why I suggested to put it into /usr/share/gst/profiles or so
[06:09] <robertj> yeah, /usr/local is _my_ area
[06:09] <Kamion> T-Bone: yes, haven't really processed it yet
[06:09] <pitti> sivang: the initial default profile should not be something configurable
[06:10] <Kamion> T-Bone: 20041227ubuntu6 is a version number more than a date, hence why it looks odd - that *is* current
[06:10] <T-Bone> Kamion: k, then i'll wait before doign further testing ;)
[06:10] <robertj> if I want to store vital system state information by encoding it into the mtime of /usr/local, that's my perogative and nobody better mess with it ;)
[06:10] <pitti> sivang: the _added_ and edited profiles should be somewhere in /etc/
[06:11] <sivang> pitti: yes, I was talking about a proper localtion for this, however I think we already agreed on "why should any profile be hardcoded in it?" ? :)
[06:11] <sivang> pitti: doing it that way, it would allow other distros to put in a profile to their likings, without bothering upstream for it.
[06:14] <sivang> robertj: :)
[06:15] <pitti> sivang: "hardcoded" in the sense of writing it directly into the perl backend
[06:16] <sivang> pitti: yes
[06:16] <pitti> sivang: putting the default profile into a separate file is good, then it can be changed separately from the perl code
[06:16] <sivang> pitti: exactly
[06:30] <sivang> pitti: I am trying to talk him into doing this, althogu he seems to favor to relieve distro maintainers from configging it
[06:31] <pitti> sivang: is it very hard just to change the hardcoded default in the meantime? It would be nice to have a working package soon to play around with
[06:32] <sivang> pitti: not at all, I already agreed to this :) Just tried to interest him in it, regardless I am working on patching out version :)
[06:33] <sladen> ARGH ARGH ARRRGH, new gnome open/save dialogue.  ARRGH
[06:34] <robtaylor> sladen: that bad?!
[06:34] <pitti> Aua, aua
[06:34] <sladen> who can I bribe to back with crack out again
[06:34] <pitti> thom: what's up?
[06:34] <robertj> sladen: why do you hate it so?
[06:34] <thom> pitti: looks like you dropped a patch from cupsys :P
[06:35] <sladen> robertj: "what would you like to open this pdf with"   [x]  [enter]   ...file opens with PDF
[06:35] <pitti> thom: ? I used merge-o-matic...
[06:36] <pitti> thom: or was that YOU who added this silly "don't modify maint scripts' option to dh_installinit?
[06:37] <robertj> sladen: does it ask you with only one choice?
[06:37] <pitti> thom: ^ do you mean this patch?
[06:38] <thom> pitti: no
[06:38] <thom> pitti: no, there's a patch missing from the init script that scott uploaded in december
[06:38] <sladen> robertj: "what would you like me to do with this"?  window opens with no focus.  Click focus.  tab once, tab again, press space, tab again press space for 'advanced' options, click drop down, select 'other', type 'xpdf', find it wants the full pathname, type '/usr/bin/xpdf', click [OK] , return to original dialogue box, click to focus, press [OK] 
[06:38] <pitti> thom: I only removed the "dh_installinit -n" patch, because it broke everything
[06:39] <robertj> ahh
[06:39] <pitti> thom: what's missing?
[06:39] <thom> pitti: in cupsys.init.d; the s-s-d invocation in start
[06:39] <sladen> robtaylor: worse.
[06:39] <robertj> sladen: my current gnome pet peeve is that you can't drag from/to the history
[06:39] <thom> we used to have --background and -F as the options to cupsd
[06:41] <thom> anyway, fixed now
[06:41] <pitti> thom: I have "start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --exec $DAEMON"
[06:41] <thom> yes, which is wrong
[06:41] <pitti> thom: hmm, odd. I did not do this deliberately, sorry
[06:42] <thom> we uploaded with start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background --exec $DAEMON -- -F
[06:42] <thom> oh well, fixed as i say
[06:42] <thom> just don't do it again :P
[06:43] <Keybuk> cupsys_1.1.22-2/debian/patches/ubuntu-init.d.patch
[06:43] <Keybuk> was in there
[06:43] <pitti> thom: it's not in http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/cupsys/cupsys_merged.debdiff
[06:43] <pitti> darn
[06:43] <Keybuk> pitti: no, but it is in 1.1.23-1ubuntu1
[06:43] <pitti> so I removed all the "we patch debian/" patches to rely on m-o-m
[06:44] <pitti> and now I am walloped again
[06:44] <Keybuk> sorry, I mean you dropped it in that version :p
[06:45] <pitti> hrm
[06:45] <pitti> I think I better go back messing up^W^Wfixing squid...
[06:50] <HostingGeek> i'll just like to point out a comment from wiki/PackageManager
[06:50] <HostingGeek> Apart from installating from web browser, anoter VERY useful feature would be for the user to click in a .deb file, and synaptic opens and installs it. If there are missing dependencies, tries to find them in the repositories that the user had configured. If the file cannot be installed because of dependencies, then warn the user, else install the .deb without needing to open the console.
[06:51] <HostingGeek> if this is possible for hoary it should be done
[06:51] <robertj> I think that would be good if it was signed by a trusted key
[06:51] <Kamion> that's what I told HostingGeek the last time he asked about this ...
[06:52] <HostingGeek> Kamion: i know 
[06:52] <HostingGeek> the reason why i pointed it out here for you guys to repond to it
[06:53] <sladen> HostingGeek: I think somebody was talking about a   kilk://package-name  URI which could then be feed to apt-get/kilk/synaptic to install 'properly
[06:53] <sladen> HostingGeek: could you research and find out what Linspire do in this area?
[06:53] <HostingGeek> Kamion: i forgot the reason why packages are not sign instead of reps
[06:54] <robertj> just a pie in the sky idea: what if every time you went to a web site it added it to a list of software in gnome-app-install under a seperate section
[06:54] <robertj> that's really probably something more for beagle though
[06:54] <jdub> robertj: not entirely pie-in-the-sky :)
[06:54] <mvo_> HostingGeek: for the "install a deb directly", it's not trivial and needs quite a bit of internal changes in apt to get the dependency stuff right
[06:55] <robertj> it would also be able to apt-get install mydeb.deb
[06:56] <HostingGeek> hmmm idea:
[06:56] <robertj> also, theoretically we could use fam to log installs of software that weren't done through app
[06:56] <mvo_> robertj: see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=47379 for details
[06:57] <HostingGeek> make it more known that anyone can add apps to universe
[06:57] <sladen> well, you could download a tarball that expanded to a reposetary, which could then be (temporyily) added to sources (pinning hack?) and the packages within that installed
[06:57] <sladen> this would pull in all the depndancies---or complain
[06:58] <HostingGeek> as i am banned from #ubuntu can someone tell me what apps in this screeny http://geeklog.eyesopened.nl/ubdates/notif.png
[06:59] <sladen> HostingGeek: why are you banned there?
[06:59] <HostingGeek> sladen: no idea
[07:00] <azeem> HostingGeek: "as i am banned from #ubuntu..." should indicate to you that your question is off-topic here
[07:00] <sladen> presumbly the person who banned you told you?
[07:00] <HostingGeek> no
[07:01] <HostingGeek> i went offline and reconnected now and found out i am banned
[07:01] <sladen> riiihgt.
[07:03] <HostingGeek> so can anyone answer me i know its offtopic but what can i do?
[07:04] <azeem> HostingGeek: you can ask on the forum
[07:04] <HostingGeek> i am?
[07:04] <T-Bone> --- #ubuntu-devel Banlist: Tue Jan 11 16:07:08 %*!*HostingGe@*.exetel.com.au Keybuk!scott@descent.netsplit.com
[07:05] <T-Bone> unfortunately the mask wasn't broad enough
[07:05] <T-Bone> you've been repeatedly told to stop asking off-topic questions and to RTFM
[07:05] <HostingGeek> ohh Keybuk you remove the ban? you said it only going to be for a day or two?
[07:05] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: apparently you haven't learned.
[07:05] <Keybuk> no, if you don't stop asking questions on the wrong channel, I'll extend it
[07:08] <sladen> HostingGeek: your development-related quetsions here were good, I suspect if you write them up that may gain you favour with them-what-did-it
[07:09] <HostingGeek> ok if someone mind tell me whats allowed in #ubuntu and whats allowed in #ubuntu-devel i'll follow it (it must be almost idiot-proof)
[07:10] <T-Bone> HostingGeek: care to look at the topic?
[07:11] <mdz> morning
[07:12] <T-Bone> mdz: hi!
[07:12] <ogra> morning :)
[07:12] <mvo_> hi mdz 
[07:12] <crimsun> moin
[07:13] <ogra> mdz: the yesterday live cd is the first one that worked on my new laptop ..... thanks :)
[07:14] <mdz> ogra: great!
[07:15] <sivang> ogra: then I should also download, mine also didn't work...
[07:15] <HostingGeek> T-Bone: ummm DeveloperResources?
[07:16] <HostingGeek> the ubuntu about page: would it be better just to hack gnome-about?
[07:16] <ogra> sivang: i'm on amd64 with nvidia and 16:10 display.....a lot of possible failure factors :)
[07:17] <robertj> so if you create a crappy package, it works, linda doesn't barf, what's the usual next step?
[07:18] <mdz> ogra: were you asked any X questions?
[07:18] <mdz> robertj: lintian :-)
[07:18] <ogra> robertj: build a binary, install and test it
[07:18] <robertj> ogra: well it works :)
[07:19] <robertj> ok lintian is complaining, i'll polish up these annoyances real quick though, what's next?
[07:19] <ogra> mdz: yup....but x detection neer worked here.... i already talked to daniels and will file a bug on the weekend if i switched back to nv 
[07:19] <ogra> never even
[07:20] <ogra> mdz: but it was the first one that was able to start x at all....(the desktop will still need some bugfixing, is that amus work ?)
[07:22] <amu> ogra: no, gnome default, parse error; desktop needs some bugfixing?   
[07:22] <ogra> broken icons....the panel was not responsive at all and gnome-settings-daemon hung....
[07:23] <robertj> now linda and intain are both quiet ;)
[07:27] <zul> mdz: i have a question for you are the  motu bugs in the bugzilla actually resolved or just placed on the backburner for later
[07:27] <HostingGeek> why is About ubuntu point to a html page when it should really be a hacked version of gnome-about? (sry if said two times connection problems....)
[07:28] <mdz> ogra: which live CD?
[07:28] <mdz> 20050120 did not have that problem for me
[07:28] <mdz> HostingGeek: no, it is better to have a page which is written specifically for Ubuntu
[07:28] <mdz> the documentation team are working on an improved one for Hoary
[07:29] <HostingGeek> why?
[07:29] <ogra> mdz: which problem .... (i downloaded it overnight (burned about 8hrs ago))
[07:29] <mdz> ogra: the panel problems
[07:29] <sivang> HostingGeek: care to give them some help?
[07:29] <HostingGeek> personally i'll like a a app than my browser opening so it can start at first login
[07:29] <sivang> HostingGeek: it will work under yelp
[07:29] <ogra> ah...hmm, i havent investigated deeper (my job steals my time ;) )
[07:30] <ogra> i will look into it again tonight
[07:30] <HostingGeek> sivang: i don't mind hack gnome-about
[07:30] <sivang> HostingGeek: no, not gnome-about - the ubuntu about page
[07:31] <robertj> mdz: but to my very limited understanding of how things work, the .deb seems to be okay, and all the automated checks seem happy
[07:31] <HostingGeek> sivang: but if it was a hacked up version of gnome-about it can be started up at first boot with a option not to start up again
[07:31] <HostingGeek> i hear manbrake has something like this
[07:32] <mdz> ogra: agreed
[07:32] <sivang> HostingGeek: I think the tendency is not to pop windows unwillingly infron of the user in ubutu, maybe one time window opened after install would be there, this is still worked by the documentation team.
[07:33] <sivang> HostingGeek: and you don't have to particulary hack the gnome about page so it could open, you can do it with whatever page you like.
[07:34] <HostingGeek> sivang: by gnome-about i am talking about that nice looking about app not a html page
[07:34] <sivang> HostingGeek: yelp is the app, docbook xml is the page :)
[07:35] <HostingGeek> sivang: no i am talking about the one i am about to take a screeny of
[07:36] <ogra> sivang: run: gnome-about     in a terminal
[07:36] <kent> HostingGeek, they know what the about-gnome program is.
[07:36] <robertj> mdz: so what's the next step, hit up debian-mentors for a sponsor?
[07:37] <mdz> HostingGeek: the one you are looking at will be, as I said, replaced
[07:37] <ogra> robertj: you want to be a DD ?
[07:37] <ogra> robertj: or a MOTU ?
[07:38] <robertj> ogra: MOTU? I don't want to be a full dd, I just want my package included
[07:38] <HostingGeek> http://img137.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img137&image=screenshot3cj.png this is yelp 0_o
[07:38] <ogra> robertj: Master of the universe :)
[07:38] <ogra> robertj: a ubuntu universe maintainer
[07:38] <robertj> oh
[07:39] <sivang> ogra: ah k, well, gnome-about is for gnome that we are using, yelp with the about page specifically for Ubuntu? ;-)
[07:39] <robertj> nothing quite that ambitious
[07:40] <ogra> robertj: the question is, do you want to be able to upload yourself, or do you just want to give your package to someone for uploading
[07:40] <robertj> probably just give it to someone
[07:40] <HostingGeek> so is that app yelp????
[07:40] <HostingGeek> it look nothing like yelp to me
[07:41] <HostingGeek> and is it possible to remove the about gnome entry by default it doesn't look right with about ubuntu 2 stop under it
[07:42] <robertj> ogra: is'nt there an official debian process for that thoug?
[07:42] <ogra> robertj: we are not debian ;)
[07:42] <ogra> robertj: its quite easy to become a MOTU yourself.....
[07:42] <robertj> well yeah, but I was thinking that it would be better if it trickled into universe
[07:42] <robertj> no offense, no ;)
[07:43] <ogra> robertj: steps:
[07:43] <ogra> 1. make some (any kind of) contribution
[07:43] <robertj> check
[07:43] <robertj> (barely)
[07:43] <ogra> 2. make all the buerocracy stuff needed (a wiki pge about you etc)
[07:44] <ogra> 3. get approved by the CC to be a _member_
[07:45] <ogra> 4. get approved by at least 2 TB members to be allowed to upload to universe
[07:45] <ogra> 5. done ;)
[07:45] <robertj> hrmm, mentors.debian.net has a deceptively easy looking form
[07:47] <ogra> robertj: i forgot....a valid, signed and trustworthy gpg key :)
[07:48] <robertj> yeah, I need to get one signed, I'll send a note out to the campus it group here
[07:48] <robertj> although not today, I'm *sick*
[07:48] <ogra> robertj: oh, get well then ...
[07:48] <robertj> *cough*
[07:49] <HostingGeek> sivang: is that app in the screeny yelp???
[07:50] <jdub> HostingGeek: of course not, that's gnome-about
[07:51] <ogra> HostingGeek: type yel in a terminal
[07:51] <ogra> yelp even
[07:51] <HostingGeek> jdub: arghhh then why did they it is
[07:51] <HostingGeek> ogra: i know how yelp look like
[07:51] <ogra> HostingGeek: then i dont understand your question
[07:51] <HostingGeek> but from my understanding you guys are saying gnome-about is a page in yelp
[07:51] <jdub> HostingGeek: will be, will be
[07:52] <HostingGeek> yuck
[07:52] <jdub> HostingGeek: the about ubuntu page will be displayed in yelp
[07:52] <HostingGeek> why
[07:52] <jdub> the gnome-about thing will still be there, but won't be in the menu
[07:52] <HostingGeek> its better to hack gnome-about
[07:52] <jdub> no, it's not
[07:52] <ogra> HostingGeek: nope
[07:52] <jdub> we've decided, between the doc and desktop team to display it in yelp
[07:52] <tseng> gratitious patching of upstream = gross
[07:53] <ogra> HostingGeek: you can feed yelp with xml.....
[07:53] <HostingGeek> its looks a lot better, you can start it at first boot with a little option to disable it from starting at first boot again...
[07:53] <ogra> HostingGeek: for gnome-about you have to modify the app
[07:53] <jdub> you'd have to change g-a fairly significantly to suit our needs and add features like taht
[07:53] <sivang> HostingGeek: that can be doen with yelp also, not sure we want to do that.
[07:53] <HostingGeek> i can edit the app
[07:53] <sivang> HostingGeek: could be done with a mere shell script IMHO
[07:54] <HostingGeek> sivang: but the app looks nicer than yelp
[07:54] <ogra> HostingGeek: you would have to edit the app for every small change
[07:54] <HostingGeek> ogra: so you make the app read a page then
[07:54] <ogra> HostingGeek: while you just change the xml for yelp
[07:54] <sivang> HostingGeek: and xml allows far more easy modifications.
[07:54] <sivang> ogra:  :)
[07:54] <HostingGeek> or have a xml read
[07:54] <HostingGeek> sivang: so we can edit that app to read the text from a xml page
[07:54] <sivang> thinks, even
[07:55] <ogra> HostingGeek: so you would have yelp with a gnome-about frame....
[07:55] <jdub> HostingGeek: dude, the decision is already made. the document will look great, don't worry about it.
[07:55] <sivang> HostingGeek: why would you like to have this?
[07:55] <kent> HostingGeek, a bit overload to make one application read xml/html, etc, when we already have one which do
[07:55] <pitti> lamont: Hi!
[07:56] <pitti> lamont: I still could not upload the langpacks; I really miss elmo :-)
[07:56] <ogra> oh , he is away ?
[07:56] <zul> ahh isnt that sweet :)
[07:56] <ogra> hi pitti
[07:56] <HostingGeek> but for a about program see the toolbar and menus by default is ugly
[07:56] <kent> but as far as i understand HostingGeek, i also think that Ubuntu could use an application which starts on first boot which could offer a guide of things usually works in Ubuntu (CD-writing, network-administration etc)  (but that can be a something yelp can show)
[07:56] <pitti> Hi ogra!
[07:57] <HostingGeek> kent: i hear manbrake has a very good app which does this
[07:57] <HostingGeek> but i guess its in QT
[07:57] <zul> hey pitti how goes it?
[07:57] <HostingGeek> manbrake is a kde distro right?
[07:57] <jdub> mandrake ships both
[07:58] <jdub> most of their admin tools are gtk/perl based
[07:58] <pitti> Hi zul. Lots of security fixes, as usual :-)
[07:58] <HostingGeek> jdub: good
[07:59] <HostingGeek> jdub: why not take there app....
[07:59] <jdub> because we have the docteam's work already, should we decide to show something on first bootup
[08:00] <zul> pitti: nice did you make any changes to hardened kernel?
[08:02] <HostingGeek> jdub: yes
[08:03] <HostingGeek> jdub: something that links to all this stuff like in manbrake
[08:03] <pitti> zul: I started to adapt grsecurity to our current kernel today
[08:03] <zul> i c
[08:03] <pitti> zul: however, some rejections are quite big, this will take me a whilw
[08:03] <zul> wouldnt surpise me
[08:04] <tseng> pitti: youll have some problems with the do_brk fix
[08:04] <tseng> pitti: pax already modifies that code block to add a lock
[08:04] <pitti> tseng: I already resolved that
[08:04] <tseng> great :)
[08:04] <pitti> tseng: I only have mm/mmap.c left
[08:04] <pitti> tseng: but that is a tough one
[08:05] <tseng> one second
[08:05] <pitti> tseng: I had too much else to do today to finish that
[08:06] <ogra> Kamion: wrong array url !
[08:06] <jdub> HostingGeek: you'll get a better reception here if you leave out the unnecessary smart-arse misspellings
[08:06] <Kamion> ogra: d'oh
[08:07] <HostingGeek> jdub: no it broke my friends computer and thats why i unoffical renamed it
[08:07] <Kamion> ogra: correction sent
[08:07] <jdub> HostingGeek: leave it out, thanks
[08:07] <ogra> :)
[08:08] <HostingGeek> jdub: but can we port it to ubuntu and ubuntuize it
[08:09] <jdub> HostingGeek: no, we're using the docteam's work.
[08:09] <jdub> Kamion: daily == array 3 atm?
[08:09] <HostingGeek> jdub: you missed what i said, this app only shows up on first boot AND links to docs and the website....
[08:09] <tseng> pitti: im basing my tree on -ac atm, who has the uselib fix, we're patching it back out and using one from spender: http://dev.gentoo.org/~tseng/kernel/4003_grsecurity-secfix-200501071130.patch
[08:09] <jdub> HostingGeek: i know what it is
[08:10] <tseng> pitti: do you have any other conflicts on mmap.c?
[08:10] <Kamion> jdub: yes
[08:10] <mdz> Kamion: sarge boots 2.4 by default on CD #1, right?
[08:10] <jdub> Kamion: ta
[08:10] <mdz> (i386)
[08:10] <jdub> Kamion: going to try out usb too :)
[08:12] <HostingGeek> jdub: but it doesn't mean you don't use yelp and the docteams work
[08:12] <lamont> pitti: :-(
[08:12] <lamont> fabbione: linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-10_20050120-0734 04:22:57 (1 entry, sigma 00:00:00)
[08:13] <lamont> now to see if they actually work....
[08:13] <pitti> tseng: this patch looks like a recent security udpate
[08:13] <tseng> yep, what else do you have touching  mmap.c?
[08:14] <Kamion> mdz: on every architecture except powerpc
[08:14] <Kamion> jdub: cool
[08:15] <pitti> tseng: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/mmap.c.rej
[08:15] <Kamion> mdz: and soon hppa; bdale's moving it, 'cos 2.4 really sucks on hppa
[08:18] <HostingGeek> why are there no bugs filed for firefox by ubuntu (instead of maoning on the mailing list) for firefoc not using gnome's proxy settings
[08:19] <T-Bone> hell yes
[08:20] <HostingGeek> hell yes means?
[09:01] (fabbione/#ubuntu-devel) one powerline failed for no apparent reason
[09:01] <fabbione> and the adsl went down
[09:01] <fabbione> thanks
[09:01] <fabbione> i am back to work in the house
[09:02] <sladen> T-Gone: have you heard of  /away
[09:15] <seb128> pitti: you should take some rest sometime :p
[09:30] <HostingGeek> hmmm seems like screem might have to be upgraded 
[09:30] <HostingGeek> i am having a problem where the default profile load a loop of untittled pages 
[09:39] <mdz> haggai: ping
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: right, I will stop working and go to my parent's house anyway :-)
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: good :)
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: but before I want to finish array 3 installation on my Desktop :-)
[09:42] <amu> mdz: looks like he's away, didnt saw him, last 6h 
[09:43] <mdz> I want my oo.o2
[09:44] <T-Bone> sladen: I may have, but I'm pretty deaf ;P
[09:44] <amu> I want openoffice.org-l10n-de ( from the 1.1.3 ) :) 
[09:45] <mako> dude, i was (just* about to send a message to mdz
[09:46] <mjg59> mako: He knew
[09:46] <HostingGeek> mdz: package it for us plz (even thought someone else is but there tacking there time...)
[09:46] <T-Bone> yeah, that's why he ran away :)
[09:46] <HostingGeek> arghhhh
[09:46] <HostingGeek> he ran away
[09:46] <T-Bone> mako: howdy!
[09:47] <pitti> Kamion: do you really think the new format/use behaviour of the installer is better?
[09:47] <pitti> Kamion: I find it horribly confusing
[09:47] <mako> T-Bone: hey there ace
[09:47] <trukulo> hi
[09:52] <T-Bone> lamont: ping?
[09:53] <HostingGeek> mdz: wb
[09:53] <HostingGeek> mdz: kernel-panic?
[09:54] <mdz> HostingGeek: #5234
[09:54] <pitti> Kamion: kudos, array 3 @i386 works very well :-)
[09:54] <mdz> mako: what were you going to message me about?
[09:55] <HostingGeek> mdz: arghhhh thats bad for me it thundering and i only have one kernel installed and that the b0rken one 
[09:55] <HostingGeek> better quickly apt-get another one
[09:56] <lamont> T-Bone: ack
[09:57] <mako> mdz: i'm writing an email
[09:58] <mako> mdz: but anyway, a super-motivated hacker i know just emailed me about ubuntu on servers. he's since caught up all the dicussions so far and has a handful of suggestions and has suggested a server-team (like a laptop team)
[09:58] <lamont> doh
[09:59] <mako> mdz: he always wants to deploy it in an entire college i think :)
[09:59] <mdz> Kamion: I'd like to publish a companion set of live CDs for array 3
[09:59] <mdz> Kamion: I'm going to test the current dailies
[09:59] <HostingGeek> seb128: read my reply to your comment in the mailing list
[09:59] <mdz> mako: I think we already have a server team; there's just no one on it yet ;-)
[09:59] <seb128> HostingGeek: ELACKCONTEXT, which list/comment ?
[10:00] <sivang> mdz: we do, accoring to the website. thom is the lead :)
[10:00] <seb128> HostingGeek: gstreamer0.6 ?
[10:00] <seb128> HostingGeek: upgrade of what ?
[10:00] <HostingGeek> seb128: yes
[10:00] <HostingGeek> seb128: warty > hoary
[10:00] <HostingGeek> seb128: woody > hoary
[10:00] <mako> sivang: it's not on wiki/Teams
[10:00] <HostingGeek> seb128: sarge > hoary .....
[10:00] <seb128> HostingGeek: and how this will help upgrades ?
[10:00] <sivang> mako: oh, well, we should add it there then.
[10:01] <seb128> HostingGeek: the package is removed
[10:01] <seb128> HostingGeek: you want to delete the file over the user decision ?
[10:01] <HostingGeek> seb128: it needs to be a dummy 
[10:01] <seb128> HostingGeek: user is free to keep using it, why forcing to delete it ?
[10:01] <seb128> HostingGeek: it doesn't
[10:02] <HostingGeek> seb128: good point but then why do this with famd?
[10:02] <seb128> because it conflicts with gamin
[10:02] <mako> sivang: yes, absolutely
[10:02] <seb128> gstreamer0.6 doesn't conflict with anything
[10:04] <seb128> HostingGeek: BTW you replied to me and not to the list :p
[10:04] <HostingGeek> seb128: i fwd it...
[10:04] <seb128> ok
[10:04] <HostingGeek> i noticed itand slapped gmail
[10:04] <seb128> I read the lists, no need to send a direct reply
[10:04] <seb128> ok
[10:05] <trukulo> ogra, did you tried new graveman ?
[10:05] <ogra> trukulo: i uploaded already :)
[10:05] <sivang> mako: I am adding the entry, ok?
[10:05] <trukulo> ogra, cool, but here, in my warty, i't doesn't detect my burner
[10:06] <ogra> trukulo: awaiting elmos approval.....but he has to fight some real world probs today i heard
[10:06] <sivang> mako: (for the server team)
[10:06] <ogra> trukulo: same error as ever....but works for a handfull of atapi and all scsi writers...
[10:07] <ogra> trukulo: its quite easy to work around though
[10:07] <HostingGeek> can xchat replaced with xchat-gnome in the next release of xchat-gnome?
[10:07] <ogra> trukulo: you just need to edit the config file and add ome lines
[10:07] <trukulo> ogra, yeah, i know
[10:07] <HostingGeek> xchat-gnome: http://xchat-gnome.navi.cx/
[10:07] <trukulo> and i added that in README, and send it to sylvain
[10:08] <thully> has anyone noticed breakage in the gnome networking applet which causes it to be impossible to configure DHCP for a wireless connection there?
[10:08] <trukulo> ogra, cat /usr/share/doc/graveman/README
[10:08] <ogra> trukulo: as long as he uses the cdrecord scanbus method for atapi drives it wont get better :(
[10:08] <trukulo> yeah, unfortunately
[10:08] <trukulo> but program is getting better day by day
[10:09] <ogra> /usr/share/doc/graveman/README reminds me.... i wanted to sendf a germn translation
[10:09] <mako> sivang: aweseome, thanks sivan
[10:10] <trukulo> ogra, to sylvain? for graveman?
[10:11] <ogra> trukulo: yup...but i'm currently a bit short of time....
[10:12] <trukulo> ogra, as everybody man
[10:12] <ogra> trukulo: and the number of strings seems to grow daily ;)
[10:12] <trukulo> ogra, and versions...
[10:12] <trukulo> new version every two days
[10:12] <thully> is the volume control applet currently broken in hoary, out of curiosity?  It doesn't appear for me currently (it appears to be there, but the actual control is invisible)
[10:13] <ogra> thully: change the device (file->select device)
[10:14] <ogra> thully: in the real volume-control, not the applet that is
[10:15] <thully> does nothing - it still doesn't show up in systray
[10:15] <haggai> mdz: pong
[10:16] <ogra> thully: if the master of the alsa mixer is at 0 level it is hidden....
[10:16] <thully> That seems like a bad idea
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: do you use gaim?
[10:17] <thully> I see it - but I think it isn't a good idea to do this by default
[10:17] <seb128> haggai: hi, how is going the OO.o2/eds/link issue ?
[10:17] <ogra> thully: yup....i'm still considering if i categorize it as bug or feature :)
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: yeah, that and gossip
[10:17] <thully> bug
[10:17] <thully> that's my vote
[10:17] <ogra> thully: ...it avoids an error dialog if sound doesnt work
[10:18] <haggai> seb128: I can't reproduce it, very wierd.  I even set up an sbuild and although it's not finished yet it is already a long way through
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: since a few days, the gaim panel icon reduced to an 3-pixel wide line
[10:18] <jbailey> pitti: Mine did that and then stopped doing that.
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: for you as well?
[10:18] <seb128> pitti: oh, interesting, you can reproduce it ?
[10:18] <ogra> thully: so it has advantages.....
[10:18] <jbailey> pitti: Hasn't done it for me again since.
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: it's here
[10:18] <thully> however, if the driver ends up muted by default (which seems to happen with ALSA a lot) then the user is left confused with no sound applet in their tray
[10:18] <tseng> that happens to me only when starting a new session with gaim in it
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: I cannot make it work again
[10:18] <seb128> pitti: no, had a such issue sometime but didn't get it for months
[10:18] <tseng> before the panel is fully loaded
[10:19] <ogra> thully: if the mixer is muted by default thats a bug in the alsa setup....
[10:19] <seb128> pitti: only with gaim ? or with rhythmbox/gossip/other icon for the notify too ?
[10:19] <mdz> Kamion: ok, make that "would have liked"
[10:19] <mdz> the daily is fucked
[10:19] <sivang> mako: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ServerTeam
[10:19] <sivang> mdz: livecd?
[10:19] <mdz> usb mice don't work
[10:19] <mdz> alsa unmuting doesn't work
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: I just installed array 3 freshly
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: so I can only try to remove my gnome configuration stuff
[10:19] <haggai> seb128: yeah, it just got to the final project with no problems
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: no, other icons work fine
[10:20] <thully> anybody tried to configure wi-fi through network applet in GNOME?  setting DHCP doesn't stick for me
[10:20] <seb128> haggai: perhaps that was an evolution-data-server bug and I fixed it with my uploads :)
[10:20] <haggai> seb128: hmm, could be
[10:20] <haggai> maybe I should just upload and see what happens
[10:20] <seb128> I've added some -dev depends
[10:20] <seb128> yep
[10:20] <seb128> go go go
[10:20] <haggai> there are some deps I fixed on the oo side too
[10:20] <seb128> pitti: could you keep the bug until tomorrow ?
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: sure
[10:21] <seb128> pitti: the panel devel who made the layout patch is interested in this issue but he's not able to reproduce it
[10:21] <seb128> he's away atm but will probably be online tomorrow
[10:21] <seb128> I'll let you know how to get useful stuff :)
[10:21] <HostingGeek> can vhcs be included into universe there are debs for it which are under testing homepage: vhcs.net (its a free stable open source working feature rich control panel)
[10:24] <haggai> HostingGeek: are you interested in maintaining them?  There aren't enough people to upload everything
[10:24] <lamont> fabbione: you around>?
[10:24] <mdz> Kamion: hotplug seems completely b0rked, no idea why
[10:24] <HostingGeek> haggai: yea
[10:25] <HostingGeek> haggai: the debs are all ready there and working but still have a lot of bugs
[10:25] <crimsun> HostingGeek: there seem to be quite a few major bugs
[10:25] <HostingGeek> but if i can get it into universe it will be good
[10:25] <ajmitch> haggai: there are a few volunteers around for uploaders to universe now
[10:25] <HostingGeek> crimsun: tell me about it, but it worked on my box and seem mostly fixed
[10:26] <ogra> haggai: btw: are you our MOTU master now ?
[10:26] <haggai> HostingGeek: did you test that the packages build on ubuntu?  Sometimes some build-deps may need adjusting, and you'll need to add an -ubuntu version no
[10:26] <ogra> ajmitch: currently two to be precise....
[10:27] <crimsun> (I would love to be contribute to universe, but I presume I'm supposed to wait until CC meeting next Tuesday.)
[10:27] <ajmitch> ogra: 2 people who can upload, or 2 waiting to get the nod from the CC & others? :)
[10:27] <HostingGeek> can it still get into hoary?
[10:27] <haggai> ogra: well, I said I'll do it but haven't heard anything official back.  I'm not sure elmo has implemented everthing yet
[10:27] <ajmitch> yes, I'd love to get to the CC meeting, but it happens to be at 5AM NZ time
[10:27] <ogra> ajmitch: two who can upload .... and hopefully crimsun next week :)
[10:27] <HostingGeek> haggai: yes it just needs one edit.... and this edit is also need for debian
[10:28] <ajmitch> ogra: may I join that list of hopefuls? :)
[10:28] <ogra> haggai: not completely....but nice to hear, since i'm MOTU now :)
[10:28] <ogra> ajmitch: you have to fulfill some criteria first....
[10:28] <haggai> HostingGeek: please do that and I'll take a look.  Let me know at chris.halls@credativ.co.uk
[10:29] <crimsun> ajmitch: I'm unsure whether it _must_ take place at a CC meeting. It sounds like 2 CC members need to approve, and that can occur at any time, but I need to confirm that with mako/mdz
[10:29] <ogra> ajmitch: start here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MaintainerCandidates
[10:29] <haggai> ogra: cool :)  what are you planning on maintaining?
[10:29] <mdz> crimsun: anytime
[10:29] <ajmitch> ogra: already on there
[10:29] <crimsun> mdz: thanks muchly.
[10:29] <mako> crimsun: for MOTU stuff, it doesn't need to be done at a meeting from now until hoary releases
[10:29] <crimsun> mako: great, thank you :)
[10:30] <HostingGeek> haggai: well i'll get BeeEmm to maintain it as he makes the debs is it possible for it to be in main once all bugs are fixed as apache2 is in main
[10:30] <ajmitch> ogra: what about the CoC?
[10:30] <ogra> haggai: i'm targeting main, so i wont pick a special package in universe but fix all bugs in everything that needs it i think
[10:30] <HostingGeek> (not sure if its deps are in main)
[10:30] <HostingGeek> *all
[10:30] <trukulo> ogra, did you see my graveman package? tell me if anything is wrong
[10:30] <ogra> ajmitch: ask mako, he wanted to put a download version up for signing
[10:30] <pitti> argh: arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))
[10:31] <ajmitch> ogra: hopefully (depending on the DAM) I'll be a DD soon
[10:31] <pitti> I thought that should be fixed in baz 1.1 *grumble*
[10:31] <ogra> trukulo: lintian didnt complain and i burned a data and a audio cd which work fine :)
[10:31] <haggai> ogra: ok great
[10:31] <trukulo> :) cool
[10:31] <trukulo> but i'm afraid problems building in ppc or amd64
[10:31] <T-Bone> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ <- shows an error message at the bottom of the pages, FYI
[10:31] <ajmitch> mako: what is the CoC requirement for prospective maintainers?
[10:31] <haggai> HostingGeek: it can only be in main if it's got someone willing to maintain it for Ubuntu long term
[10:32] <trukulo> i mean, is my first package, and i'm not confident yet with myself
[10:32] <HostingGeek> haggai: BeeEmm
[10:32] <haggai> HostingGeek: sorry I mean Ubuntu not just Debian
[10:32] <HostingGeek> haggai: he is making those debs i'll talk to him
[10:32] <HostingGeek> haggai: he can do it for ubuntu
[10:32] <ogra> ajmitch: how long did it take you ?
[10:32] <HostingGeek> he has not added it to the debian reps *yet*
[10:33] <ajmitch> ogra: well, it's taken a long, long time to get this far :)
[10:33] <ajmitch> and I'm near the top of the queue for DAM approval, it seems
[10:33] <ogra> ajmitch: ...ubuntu is easier :)
[10:33] <T-Bone> elmo: ping?
[10:34] <ajmitch> ogra: yeah, I figure that if I can become a DD, getting into ubuntu will seem simple by comparison :)
[10:35] <ajmitch> at least they try & make the NM process for debian rigourous enough now - what reviews are in place for people who upload to universe?
[10:35] <haggai> ajmitch: I, and others yet to be chosen, keep an eye on new uploads
[10:35] <ajmitch> haggai: alright
[10:36] <ajmitch> that could get to be a big job
[10:36] <ogra> ajmitch: only 15000 packages...come on
[10:36] <haggai> ajmitch: yes 'fraid so
[10:37] <ajmitch> ogra: thankfully most are borrowed straight from debian :)
[10:37] <haggai> ogra: thankfully not all of them will be touched..
[10:39] <crimsun> mdz: / haggai: Are you currently willing to approve me for universe? I've been working on 'rox-filer' (I've already done some work on 2.1.4-0.1 with Frankie [ROX-in-Debian Project, http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-rox/] , diff available at http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/outside/rox-filer/rox_2.1.4-0.1.diff.gz).
[10:40] <T-Bone> mako: ping?
[10:41] <thully> Are we intentionally or unintentionally asking the user for what resolutions to use in stage 2 of the hoary installer?
[10:41] <lamont> thully: that should only come up if it can't query the monitor
[10:41] <lamont> or rather, if the query fails
[10:41] <haggai> crimsun: I can't connect to trilug.org.  Could you mail it to me please?
[10:41] <mdz> fabbione: what have you changed in the kernel recently?
[10:41] <thully> it didn't come up in warty for me - but it comes up in hoary
[10:41] <mako> T-Bone: yes
[10:41] <mdz> fabbione: I am not getting hotplug events for USB devices at all
[10:42] <crimsun> haggai: certainly.
[10:42] <mdz> fabbione: the hci driver is not even noticing that they come and go
[10:42] <haggai> crimsun: chris.halls@credativ.co.uk
[10:42] <ajmitch> haggai: so pre-reqs are signing the CoC, then getting you & someone else to approve?
[10:44] <haggai> ajmitch: I believe so.. unless they changed the rules.. yet again ;)
[10:44] <ajmitch> the rules are a little hazy on the wiki still
[10:45] <ajmitch> I'm sure it's a way to dissuade casual enquirers, like debian's NM process is designed to break applicant's spirits :)
[10:45] <ogra> ajmitch: it gets just worked out....we are the guinea pigs ;)
[10:45] <thully> There is a few default settings in Hoary which I question, and wondered as to the reasoning behind them.
[10:46] <thully> First of all, why is snd-intel8x0m not blacklisted when it is loaded automatically by drivers which need it and breaks some other drivers (all of said drivers are unsupported)
[10:47] <haggai> ajmitch: if you want to get in, do something about it :p  - send me a package or too
[10:47] <haggai> two
[10:47] <mdz> thully: we have already had this discussion, and you have an open bug report about it.  there is no need to raise the point again and again.
[10:48] <thully> OK - I saw the discussion, but I never remember any decision being made - did I miss anything?
[10:48] <ajmitch> haggai: sure, I've got 10 or so here, but they can be uploaded to debian & synced from there :)
[10:48] <haggai> ajmitch: there's no syncing going on any more
[10:49] <mdz> haggai: only manual syncing
[10:49] <ajmitch> no automatic syncing
[10:49] <crimsun> haggai: sent.
[10:49] <haggai> mdz: via dev uploads or some other mechanism?
[10:49] <ajmitch> eg I've got a bug for a package that is fixed in a new upstream version
[10:49] <mdz> haggai: the email-elmo mechanism
[10:49] <mdz> which needs to be documented in DeveloperResources
[10:49] <mdz> could someone do that, please?
[10:49] <haggai> mdz: indeed
[10:50] <mooch> seb128: ping
[10:51] <thully> as to the whole timezone issue - why is the clock assumed to be UTC on a clean install?  The vast majority of systems use local time by default on their system clocks
[10:51] <seb128> mooch: ?
[10:51] <mdz> thully: same answer
[10:51] <mooch> seb128: is it with you i have to talk about a problem with gnome-terminal ?
[10:52] <mooch> seb128: i can see some horizontal lines in the background of my terminal...
[10:52] <crimsun> thully: current hoary has a solution for the on-board sound chipsets' modems.
[10:52] <thully> what do you mean?
[10:52] <mooch> i took an screenshot and amplified it, and they are certanly there...
[10:52] <seb128> mooch: is that new ? do you have them all the time ?
[10:52] <mdz> crimsun: it has a solution for them becoming the default sound device, but thully is complaining about something else
[10:53] <mdz> he wants to use non-free drivers
[10:53] <mooch> seb128: is not new, and they appear when i have some text on the terminal
[10:53] <mdz> and not load the alsa driver at all
[10:53] <thully> yes - but I know of nothing that benefits from loading the alsa driver - and many things that have problems because of it
[10:53] <mooch> i can put the file on my webserver and you will see what i mean
[10:53] <crimsun> mdz: ah, thanks for the clarification.
[10:54] <haggai> crimsun: hmm, your diff is against a different package version than in universe
[10:54] <seb128> mooch: do you have a screenshot ?
[10:55] <crimsun> haggai: yes, 2.0.1 is in universe. I can backport the necessary alternative and further cleanups.
[10:56] <haggai> crimsun: take a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UpstreamVersionFreeze and decide if the new version meets the criteria
[10:57] <mooch> seb128: http://www.pumuki.org/~data/Screenshot.png
[10:57] <mooch> should be
[10:58] <haggai> ajmitch: same for you, please bear http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UpstreamVersionFreeze with the uploads you are thinking about
[10:59] <ajmitch> haggai: yes, it's not hard for me to put the change into the previous revision
[11:00] <ajmitch> as the fix I need is just in a postinst
[11:00] <mooch> seb128: got it?
[11:00] <haggai> ajmitch: ok, that's what I need to review.
[11:00] <haggai> ajmitch: sorry I haven't time to actually do the work for you :)
[11:00] <seb128> mooch: yeah, but that's only some text on a background :p
[11:00] <ajmitch> I'll rebuild them with the fix on the hoary box here :)
[11:00] <mooch> seb128: look at it closer
[11:00] <mooch> it has some horizintal lines...
[11:01] <seb128> mooch: are you sure that's the right link ?
[11:01] <ogra> mooch: there are only some letters on white bg
[11:01] <mooch> there are some lines in fine gray
[11:02] <ogra> mooch: not here...
[11:03] <mooch> ogra: if you make the pic big enough you will see themmm
[11:03] <mooch> trust me, is there...
[11:03] <crimsun> haggai: 2.1.4 is the current stable version [http://rox.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/ROX-Filer]  and contains relevant fixes to operate correctly with metacity. Despite 2.1.5 being released recently, it seems like 2.1.4 is the suitable candidate against which to base efforts.
[11:04] <ogra> mooch: you mean i should download it and magnify it in the gimp ?
[11:04] <mooch> yep
[11:04] <mooch> or just magnify it under gqmpeg or similar image viewer
[11:04] <thully> P.S. I added the results of the tests Kamion suggested yesterday to the timezone bug in Bugzilla
[11:04] <ogra> lamont: isnt most of dev resources from you ?
[11:05] <lamont> ogra: nah - I'm ammeding it to actually explain what happens to your uploads
[11:05] <crimsun> haggai: there are some urgent issues in Debian BTS; I'll attempt to address the most pressing policy violations
[11:05] <lamont> the build logs are mine, but the page was someone elses creation
[11:06] <ogra> lamont: ah, ok
[11:06] <mooch> ogra: can you see the lines?
[11:06] <mooch> the show in lines where text is actually there
[11:06] <mooch> if there is no text, there is no line
[11:08] <mooch> seb128: can you see them?
[11:09] <haggai> crimsun: ok, so a new upstream version is necessary to fix problems related to metacity, right?  And, your versioning is for Debian, not Ubuntu
[11:09] <crimsun> haggai: I'll whip up a new diff tonight and mail it to you.
[11:09] <mooch> crimsun: how difficult would it be to add window groupping to metacity?
[11:09] <mooch> crimsun or anyone who could know about it...
[11:09] <ogra> mooch: http://www.grawert.net/s-shot.png
[11:10] <haggai> crimsun: ok great
[11:10] <crimsun> haggai: thanks for your time
[11:10] <mooch> ogra: so you see the lines...
[11:10] <ogra> mooch: nope...
[11:10] <haggai> np
[11:10] <seb128> mooch: no
[11:11] <mooch> ogra: reduce the contrast of your monitor, or the brightness
[11:11] <ogra> mooch: probably my display hasnt the contrast settings 
[11:11] <seb128> mooch: the windows are grouped in the panel if you active the option
[11:11] <ogra> wait....
[11:11] <mooch> i will try to modify the colour balance
[11:11] <ogra> i see dashed lines if i hold my laptop in a weird angle
[11:11] <mooch> seb128: i would like to move 2 windows grouped together...
[11:12] <mooch> ogra: yes! that is...
[11:12] <ogra> hmm
[11:13] <mooch> ok, with the edge detector on the gimp:
[11:14] <mooch> http://www.pumuki.org/~data/Screenshot2.png
[11:17] <haggai> lamont/elmo: does either of you know off the top of your head where I can override the default path in sbuild?
[11:17] <lamont> ??
[11:18] <lamont> I expect $HOME/.profile in the chroot...
[11:18] <lamont> you're saying that you want to have sbuild use other than the default?
[11:18] <haggai> yes, adding the ccache dir
[11:19] <haggai> sbuild seems to call chroot dpkg-buildpackage without modifying the environment explicitly, and there isn't a .profile in $HOME for the user
[11:20] <lamont> you could see about overriding things by searching for: $env_cmnd dpkg-buildpackage
[11:20] <lamont> that's where dpkg-buildpackage gets invoked.
[11:20] <ajmitch> haggai: you want source-only changes for universe fixes?
[11:20] <lamont> I don't believe that there's anything for specifying environment variables
[11:20] <haggai> ajmitch: yup
[11:21] <ajmitch> good, less pressure on bandwidth :)
[11:21] <haggai> lamont: yes, I couldn't see anything straight off
[11:21] <lamont> haggai: I know I hacked in arbitrary ENV stuff (for LANG, specifically), but I rather expect that $HOME/.profile is what you really want to mess with
[11:22] <lamont> er...
[11:22] <lamont> "cd $bdir && PATH=$conf::path ".
[11:22] <lamont> if you have that string, then I'd look at .sbuildrc for $path=....
[11:22] <haggai> oh I searched for PATH
[11:22] <mooch> seb128: you see what i mean?
[11:23] <haggai> lamont: are you looking at a patched sbuild?  I can't find PATH in the source at all
[11:23] <lamont> uh, probably
[11:23] <lamont> where did you get your sbuild?
[11:23] <haggai> debian/universe
[11:24] <lamont> ftp.debian.org, or the good one.
[11:24] <lamont> ah, that one's crap
[11:24] <haggai> oh that's great :(
[11:24] <azeem> haggai: don't listen to lamont
[11:24] <azeem> :)
[11:24] <lamont> haggai: the one being used on all the buildd's that I know of is found at deb http://db.debian.org/ debian-admin/
[11:24] <azeem> lamont: really, the one at debian-admin is pretty crap, too, if you are not running a buildd by chance
[11:24] <lamont> azeem: well, true.
[11:25] <lamont> but I'm almost certain it has $conf::path, because I don't remember hacking that in,
[11:25] <azeem> the buildd I run has the one from debian-admin of course
[11:25] <haggai> I would have found it believe me I searched for path stuff all over the source of that one
[11:26] <haggai> lamont: where do I go from that URL?  I'm just on the search page
[11:27] <lamont> add that to /etc/apt/sources.list is the easiest way.
[11:27] <lamont> http://db.debian.org/debian-admin/Packages.gz
[11:27] <haggai> ah secret voodoo
[11:27] <lamont> and then find what you want and give it the path relative to debian-admin/
[11:27] <lamont> nah, not secret.  apt.
[11:29] <mooch> ogra: no comments on that?
[11:29] <ogra> mooch: no idea, sorry....is this hoary or warty ?
[11:30] <lamont> haggai: the one in debian-admin insists that the only valid releases are 'stable', 'testing', and 'unstable'... you'll need to defeat that before you can use chroot-hoary...
[11:30] <haggai> lamont: I already did that for the 'broken' one
[11:30] <haggai> there is no source package in the Sources.gz
[11:30] <lamont> sbuild is not modified in building.
[11:30] <lamont> actually, the source package is wanna-build
[11:31] <mooch> hoary
[11:31] <mooch> ogra: hoary updated 2 mins ago
[11:31] <haggai> lamont: ah thanks
[11:32] <ogra> mooch: already rebooted to get the new kernel to work and be sure that all changes are made ? did you use backports or any other foreign repo on warty ?
[11:35] <mooch> ogra: no reboot, but the problem is related with gnome-terminal, not with any other app
[11:36] <mooch> and the only external repo is mplayer, which is, again, non-related
[11:37] <ogra> mooch: there are certain changes that would need a X restart i guess (new fontconfig, xorg etc) they all could affect it, i would do a reboot to make sure everything is in place
[11:38] <ogra> mooch: i did understand you correct, you updated from warty 2 mins ago ?
[11:41] <mooch> huh! no! I have neved had warty except for the day i installed the mahcine, and that lasted 10 minutes, back in mataro
[11:45] <mdz> thom: ping?
[11:47] <ogra> mooch: hmm, so i misunderstood....sorry
[11:52] <ogra> lamont: nice....at least i understand it :)
[11:54] <lamont> ogra: is that a good thing??? :-)
[11:55] <ogra> lamont: how should _i_ judge it (if thats a good thing) ? (wait, i'll ask my GF)
[11:56] <lamont> heh
[11:57] <ajmitch> haggai: package will be done soon, just doing a binary build first (and it's a slow box)
[11:58] <ogra> lamont: she says its always good if i understand something....hmm
[12:02] <lamont> hm...
[12:02] <ogra> lamont: in fact it explains the task very good and i think everybod will easy understand it :)