[12:02] <sivang> I'm getting 200Kb/s now :)
[12:02] <mdz> seems to be getting a poor transfer rate on the blocks it downloads, but isn't downloading many
[12:02] <lamont_r> ah, ok
[12:05] <mdz>    564506624 100%    2.24MB/s    0:04:00  (2, 33.3% of 9)
[12:05] <sladen> 20Mb average isn't bad...
[12:05] <sladen> what link do you have there?
[12:05] <sivang> mdz: pheee 
[12:06] <mdz> sladen: 3mbit
[12:06] <sivang> man
[12:08] <mdz> yay, the busybox init fix took
[12:08] <ogra> mdz: i get 68KB/s on amd here (line is capable to do 90 which i noramlly get from c.u.c)
[12:08] <mdz> i386 download is getting a more non-rsync transfer rate
[12:08] <ogra> mdz: how did you track it in the end ?
[12:08] <ogra> init that i
[12:08] <ogra> s
[12:11] <mdz> ogra: many slow test cycles
[12:11] <ogra> hmm with a lot reboots i guess....
[12:12] <sladen> mdz: do you find an easy way to differeniate kernel threads?
[12:12] <mdz> lamont_r: is this a delta against 20050121 or 20050120.1?
[12:12] <mdz> I'm not sure what I had locally when I started the rsync
[12:15] <lamont_r> mdz: the change in cloop generation is in 20050121.<largest int>
[12:15] <lamont_r> for i368 that's > 10... for the others, it should be .1 or so
[12:15] <mdz> sladen: we stole code from sysvinit
[12:20] <T-Bone> are popcon stats available somewhere, or is it just 'not yet enabled' ?
[12:24] <lamont_r> down to < 60 minutes
[12:36] <__daniel> re
[12:37] <__daniel> thanks ogra :-)
[12:37] <ogra> __daniel: doe sit work now ?
[12:37] <__daniel> ogra: finally, yes :-)
[12:38] <ogra> hreat :)
[12:38] <ogra>  /h/g/
[12:39] <ogra> mdz: i understood that also non debina packages should have a ubuntu version number, sorry, next time i'll regard it
[12:40] <ogra> __daniel: ask fabio :)
[12:41] <ogra> __daniel: he can tell you about kernels and how they eat your time.... :)
[12:41] <__daniel> now at least i know about /etc/iftab
[12:41] <__daniel> and found out that dhcp is capable of netbios stuff
[12:42] <Hwolf> Did any if you guys have any trouble with the repro's today?
[12:42] <lamont_r> __daniel: what's in /etc/iftab?
[12:43] <__daniel> lamont_r: a table telling which ethX has which MAC/or_other adress
[12:43] <ogra> lamont_r: its a table that adds the ethX device to a specific MAC
[12:43] <lamont_r> ah, cool
[12:43] <lamont_r> glad that finally got in there.. (yeah, sometime ago, I'm sure..)
[12:43] <__daniel> lamont_r: after the reboot, my router kept on confusing network devices
[12:43] <ogra> lamont_r: remember, with 2.4 you had to regard the load order of the modules ....
[12:43] <__daniel> so thanks to ogra, i'm safe now :-)
[12:44] <lamont_r> ogra: or write scripts that figured out what the kernel had done to you...
[12:44] <ogra> yup :)
[12:46] <lamont_r> Ifrename always use the first matching mapping starting
[12:47] <lamont_r>        from  the  end  of  iftab, therefore more restrictive mapping should be
[12:47] <lamont_r>        specified last.
[12:47] <lamont_r> that could use some change...
[12:48] <sladen> win 45
[12:50] <ogra> lamont_r: this whole paragraph sounds strange (even above this sentence)
[12:50] <lamont_r> my daughter just decided to write a short story with her spelling words...
[12:50] <lamont_r> yes
[12:50] <lamont_r> but that sentence really wants to say 'always uses the last matching mapping...'
[12:51] <ogra> lamont_r: the two sentences seem not related at all....probably worth a bug
[12:51] <lamont_r> ogra: feel free
[12:51] <ogra> heh
[12:53] <ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ dpkg -S /etc/iftab
[12:53] <ogra> dpkg: /etc/iftab not found.
[12:53] <ogra> hmm, what may generate it ?
[12:55] <mdz> ogra: netcfg creates it
[12:56] <Riddell> what version number should I use in debian if I've already put a package in ubuntu versioned -1ubuntu1
[12:56] <sivang> mdz: are there any set of documents appropriate for shipping on the cd? docteam ubuntu user guide for example?
[12:57] <ogra> mdz: hmm, but it has a manpage that is wrong....ha, found it ogra@honk:~ $ dpkg -S /usr/share/man/man5/iftab.5.gz
[12:57] <ogra> ifrename: /usr/share/man/man5/iftab.5.gz
[12:57] <mdz> sivang: I should ask you, you are on the documentation team, and not me ;-)
[12:58] <sivang> mdz: I say we do! However, that should probably be in the limis of the diskspace on the cd.
[12:58] <crimsun> Riddell: assuming -1 is in Debian? -2 would be the dch -i; then you'd make -2ubuntu1, and so forth.
[12:58] <Riddell> crimsun: nothing is in debian
[12:59] <sivang> I'd opt for having all the ubuntu specific docs in, so someone without net access could also learn about the system - again, in the space constraints.
[12:59] <lamont_r> son of bitch. must kill pitti
[12:59] <mdz> sivang: if you have enough documentation that we need to worry about space, then that is a good problem to have
[12:59] <lamont_r> 700 files to mirror???  gag me
[12:59] <crimsun> Riddell: if the packages are identical aside from branding differences, I say -1.
[12:59] <sivang> mdz: hehe, ok, I'll tell the gang that you said to fill up the remaining space with docs :)
[01:00] <Riddell> crimsun: ok
[01:00] <crimsun> Riddell: normally they're -0ubuntuX until they're in Sid, then -1ubuntuX and so on
[01:05] <lamont_r> crimsun: the logical successor to -1 is -1ubuntu1, not -2ubuntu1
[01:05] <lamont_r> debian's -2 should  be newer
[01:06] <crimsun> lamont_r: that's what I'm saying.
[01:06] <ogra> sivang: make an mpeg screencapture tutorial for all functions of the desktop if you dont know how to fill the space ;)
[01:06] <crimsun> lamont_r: otherwise he'd have to make a -2 for sid and then a -2ubuntu1 for hoary, no?
[01:06] <lamont_r> if he was doing something for sid, then he'd bump the debian version.
[01:07] <lamont_r> and merge the ubuntu diff into that
[01:07] <crimsun> lamont_r: according to him, currently there's no sid package of it
[01:09] <lamont_r> then probably -0ubuntu1 and start counting
[01:09] <crimsun> lamont_r: yeah, that was my reasoning as well, except there's already a -1ubuntu1 ;)
[01:09] <lamont_r> of course, if it could go into debian (even experimental), that'd be the preferred method
[01:10] <lamont_r> because if you wind up with a diff orig.tar.gz in debian, then you wind up with 1ubuntu1-1ubuntu1 later. :-(
[01:11] <lamont_r> grumble. back down to 50K/s
[01:11] <lamont_r> 15 minutes remaining... woot
[01:12] <lamont_r> crimsun: after -1ubuntu1 is -1ubuntu2
[01:12] <crimsun> lamont_r: so he should make -2 for experimental/sid, then a -2ubuntu1 for hoary, correct?
[01:13] <ajmitch> it's not too hard to upload -2 as the first release to sid
[01:13] <lamont_r> ah, if he's sending something to sid and he likes himself, then yes... -2 for sid and -2ubuntu1 for hoary
[01:13] <crimsun> ajmitch: right.
[01:14] <lamont_r> and just remember the -sa for sid
[01:14] <Hwolf> I've been having problems with the repostories all day, has anyone else noticed anything?
[01:14] <ajmitch> nope
[01:14] <ajmitch> I've been downloading fine
[01:15] <lamont_r> Hwolf: if you mean bandwidth being sucky, then yes - others have noticed it although it appears happier now
[01:15] <Hwolf> W: GPG error: http://security.ubuntu.com hoary-security Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[01:15] <Hwolf> That, and package not found, etc.
[01:15] <crimsun> hoary-security?
[01:15] <lamont_r> hoary-security doesn't have anything (and won't until at least april, hopefully much later...)
[01:15] <lamont_r> crimsun: it's created, but empty
[01:15] <crimsun> lamont_r: right.
[01:15] <ajmitch> lamont_r: I don't notice lack of bandwidth from the server ,since I have none at my end :)
[01:16] <lamont_r> ajmitch: I only notice it when I drive 15 miles to town to get bandwidth... :-)
[01:16] <Hwolf> Hey ajmitch, have you gotten any hint on what could cause the gnome volume applet to mess up my audio?
[01:18] <ajmitch> Hwolf: changes alsa settings? 
[01:18] <ajmitch> I don't know
[01:19] <ajmitch> on my sid laptop, restarting udev causes the volume settings to be restored
[01:19] <Hwolf> If I open gnome-volume-control it breaks the currently playing audio and all I hear is static, if I reselect the card, or reopen the tool, things go back to normal.
[01:19] <ajmitch> interesting
[01:19] <lamont_r> ajmitch: firing up the panel and switching back to alsa fixes it... no clue as to cause
[01:20] <ajmitch> gnome-volume-control uses gstreamer as backend now, right?
[01:21] <Hwolf> ajmitch: It should
[01:22] <ajmitch> sigh, seems that a LUG machine that friends run just got rooted
[01:22] <ajmitch> great way to spend a weekend :)
[01:23] <Hwolf> ajmitch, consider spending the weekend at the university cafeteria working on a business plan with a monday-4pm deadline.
[01:23] <ajmitch> oh that's fairly usual for students
[01:23] <ajmitch> except it's more spending the weekend in the basement lab coding for me
[01:24] <Hwolf> *g* I've put in 15 hours on the plan in the last 4 days, and we still need 20% of it. 
[01:25] <mdz> lamont_r: still here?
[01:25] <lamont_r> yeah
[01:25] <Hwolf> 3 people are writing, and i am typing it into a single cohesive project, editing and such. I feel braindead. :-)
[01:25] <lamont_r> 4 min eta
[01:25] <lamont_r> kids would like to go home from the coffee shop though...
[01:25] <lamont_r> mdz: wassup?
[01:26] <Hwolf> lamont_r, here in holland, you don't let kids into coffee shops. :-)
[01:26] <ogra> hehe
[01:26] <lamont_r> Hwolf: yeah - there are a couple of other kids in evidence, but mostly considerably younger than mine...
[01:26] <daniels> lamont_r: it was going to be hoary, but I got overruled on that one.  ho hum.
[01:27] <lamont_r> daniels: any planned need for -12?
[01:27] <daniels> lamont_r: yeah
[01:27] <daniels> Hwolf: it's already moving modular
[01:27] <lamont_r> this week, or next?
[01:27] <daniels> lamont_r: this weekend
[01:27] <amu> daniels: hint dbus-qt :) 
[01:27] <daniels> amu: yeah :)
[01:27] <Hwolf> daniels, can you tell me how to get xvid working with the fglrx driver? I've tried, but had no luck.
[01:28] <daniels> lamont_r: you could just ignore *6.8.1-1ubuntu12* for a while
[01:28] <daniels> Hwolf: dunno, sorry, don't use binary drivers myself
[01:28] <mdz> lamont_r: going to upload busybox-cvs shortly
[01:28] <Hwolf> daniels, cool. 
[01:28] <daniels> i've used fglrx for about 10min to make sure it worked, and nvidia-glx for about an hour to debug a weird problem
[01:28] <mdz> lamont_r: need to get those changes into a d-i build
[01:28] <lamont_r> mdz: OK.
[01:28] <lamont_r> gonna make :30, or do I have an hour?
[01:29] <Hwolf> daniels, the problem is, at this moment you can't use the fgrlx drivers out-of-the-box with apps like totem or tvtime.
[01:29] <daniels> Hwolf: hmm ... there's probably an option about picking the gl or xv overlay
[01:29] <mdz> lamont_r: it's on its way up now
[01:29] <mdz> and my clock shows :30
[01:29] <lamont_r> daniels: if I want good 3D 24-bit double buffered video,what card do you recommend
[01:30] <Hwolf> daniels, i've searched, but can't find it. And anyhow, it should be standard, right?
[01:30] <lamont_r> DC shows mostly after :30
[01:30] <daniels> lamont_r: 3d video?
[01:30] <daniels> Hwolf: not really, fglrx has its own wacky options
[01:30] <daniels> including one which is a bitmask about capabilities
[01:30] <lamont_r> which means source will snap at :03, and binaries will be there at :33.. d-i should be available shortly thereafter
[01:30] <lamont_r> meaning I have to be at the computer at :33
[01:30] <lamont_r> daniels: s/video/graphics/
[01:31] <lamont_r> some sort of accelerated 3D engine, etc, etc.
[01:31] <lamont_r> oh, and under $200
[01:31] <lamont_r> US
[01:31] <lamont_r> :-)
[01:31] <daniels> lamont_r: i got my radeon 8500 for $us20 off ebay -- very good card
[01:31] <daniels> i mean, it probably isn't too shit hot on hl2, but yeah, it generally keeps up quite well
[01:31] <daniels> if you can find a radeon 9100, even better
[01:32] <daniels> the 9200 is flaky and I dislike it, ditto 9250
[01:32] <lamont_r> ok.
[01:32] <daniels> and anything above that requires fglrx for 3D
[01:32] <Hwolf> daniels, i've had a 9200se for a year, and it's the latest supported card for 'ati' Has always worked fine, specially with ubuntu
[01:32] <lamont_r> mdz: if you _DID_ make :33, please phone/txt msg me and I'll hussle, otherwise should be back on at about :15 or :20
[01:33] <mdz> lamont_r:   79 N T Jan 22 Ubuntu Installe (0.3K) busybox-cvs_20040623-1ubuntu10_source.changes ACCEPTED
[01:33] <lamont_r> is that from :35 or :30?
[01:33] <mdz> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:30:02 +0000 (GMT)
[01:33] <lamont_r> sigh.  you won
[01:34] <daniels> Hwolf: i dislike the entire concept of the rv280 chipset, and the 9200 has had a lot of weird problems
[01:34] <Hwolf> btw: Is anything planned to simplify using an rp-pppoe connection with ubuntu? Last time I tried it took me 3 days to get the network going here?
[01:34] <Hwolf> daniels, I'm starting to dislike ATI in general, they spend more time doing marketing than coding drivers, if you ask me. 
[01:35] <Hwolf> I got around setting up ppp this time by buying a router, but here they sell a lot of cheap-ass adsl connections which come with the modem integrated in a usb-stick, so putting in a router is not an option.
[01:36] <daniels> Hwolf: unfortunately, for open drivers, all you have is ati and i8xx for halfway-modern hardware, and i8xx relies on often incredibly buggy VBE implementations to program modes
[01:37] <daniels> (my laptop has an i8xx, my desktop has a Radeon)
[01:37] <Hwolf> daniels, unfortunatly, my next mobo is not going to be agp, so i'll have to move closed-source. :-S
[01:38] <daniels> Hwolf: mmm, yeah.  i've got a PCIE motherboard (other parts on order), so it's going to be closed-source for 3D.
[01:39] <daniels> (that being said, the 3D stuff I want to play is closed-source, so I've already taken that hit)
[01:40] <Hwolf> I've got a new-year resolution of not installing windows at all this year. I use it at school and at my parents, that's enough. However, i've got one of the greatest games in history lying on top of my monitor, and there is no way in hell that winex will ever support it. :-S
[01:40] <sjoerd> easy solution, don't play games 
[01:41] <Hwolf> I've been using mostly ubuntu since the release of warty, but I haven't played a game exept majhong since december. :-S
[01:41] <Hwolf> That's the longest i've been without playing games since I was 11, i think.
[01:42] <sjoerd> the last time i seriously played a (proprietary) game is more then 5 years back
[01:42] <sjoerd> or more..
[01:42] <Hwolf> It's a good way to get rid of the addiction.
[01:43] <Hwolf> All I want right now is to see hoary play a dvd out of the box. :-S
[01:43] <sjoerd> if you want to buy games, buy a console, much better :)
[01:43] <Hwolf> gstreamer made some progress, I can now play a dvd in totem-gstreamer. I don't have sound tho.
[01:43] <sjoerd> and no i don't have one..
[01:44] <Hwolf> sjoerd, I'm a strategy-gamer. That doesn't go with consoles.
[01:44] <sjoerd> the problem is the patent stuff and the gray legal area...
[01:44] <sjoerd> Hwolf: point
[01:44] <Hwolf> I know the problem. I've considered trying Yole. They ship patented stuff. Based in Russia. :-D
[01:45] <daniels> mjg59: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=52998&postcount=12
[01:46] <daniels> sjoerd: no halflife 2? :P
[01:47] <ajmitch> Hwolf: apt-get install freeciv :)
[01:47] <sjoerd> fps make me sick anyway
[01:48] <sjoerd> daniels: how's with the dbus qt bindings? any plans on them 
[01:48] <sjoerd> more and more people start asking
[01:48] <Hwolf> ajmitch. I'd rather see something like the total war series. :-)
[01:49] <jdz_> Hwolf: Check out Battle for Wesnoth, it's in universe.  Hoary's version is much better (newer)
[01:49] <Hwolf> Whooh. I feel good. I'm running a pyhton2.3-less system. 
[01:50] <Hwolf> jdz_ I did. It was good for an hour.
[01:50] <jdz_> Hwolf: *laughs* okay.
[01:51] <ajmitch> Hwolf: and what do you have against python2.3?
[01:51] <Hwolf> jdz_ The problem is, once you've seen a squad of armoured war-elephants march through a few units of legionaires, 2d just doesn't cut it anymore
[01:51] <daniels> sjoerd: either today or tomorrow
[01:52] <Hwolf> ajmitch, nothing, exept that it's 70mb and 50 packages. :-)
[01:52] <daniels> sjoerd: heh, I have a PS2.  both that and San Andreas aren't exactly open source/open platform.
[01:53] <sjoerd> daniels: cool, lemme know then i'll put it in the debian package too
[01:53] <daniels> sjoerd: will do
[01:54] <sjoerd> if it works out for ubuntu then it should be fine for unstable too....
[01:55] <sjoerd> daniels: consoles aren't general purpose machines, so i don't care as much about being open..
[01:55] <sjoerd> and if you want to do proprietary games your already lost... No need to make it worse by forsing more and more closed stuff on you once open/free system :)
[01:56] <Riddell> could someone explain what this means (trying to work out why a package hasn't been built "universe/sound/kdemultimedia_4:3.3.2-1ubuntu4 by buildd+crested [optional:out-of-date] "
[01:57] <daniels> Riddell: needs to be built, although I'm not sure why crested has claimed it
[01:57] <daniels> Riddell: how long ago did you upload it?
[01:57] <daniels> sjoerd: heh.  at the same time, I want it to look nice, which sort of precludes r2xx. :P
[01:57] <Riddell> daniels: amu uploaded it on the 15th
[01:58] <Riddell> "universe/sound/kdemultimedia_4:3.3.2-1ubuntu4: Building by buildd+crested [optional:out-of-date] "  is that the build-depend on arch-all which depends on arch-specidic problem
[01:58] <sjoerd> it's not that thare are non-free drives i could use, but still :)
[01:59] <daniels> sjoerd: sure, but not with 3D acceleration
[01:59] <daniels> i mean, I could run free drivers on my r423, and I will almost all the time
[02:00] <daniels> but when I'm playing HL2 ... not really
[02:00] <sjoerd> as said, no games, easy solution :)
[02:00] <daniels> sjoerd: heh
[02:00] <mdz> daniels: any idea why ctrl+alt+f1 doesn't work in X anymore on the live CD?
[02:00] <mdz> it used to
[02:00] <daniels> mdz: hm.
[02:01] <daniels> mdz: no
[02:01] <daniels> mdz: i'll download the latest live CD tonight
[02:01] <mdz> daniels: lamont has made it rsyncable
[02:01] <mdz> I wonder if it is possible to combine rsync and torrent
[02:02] <mdz> use rolling checksums with bittorrent
[02:02] <daniels> mdz: in any case, I haven't got a seed
[02:02] <daniels> so I'll grab the full tonight and add rsyncing it to my mirroring script
[02:02] <mdz> there are no torrents for the hoary live CDs yet
[02:02] <daniels> terminology collision
[02:02] <daniels> seed as in, pull it the first time
[02:02] <daniels> so rsync is more useful than wget
[02:02] <Hwolf> daniels, will usplash make Hoary?
[02:03] <Riddell> Hwolf: ask sladen 
[02:04] <Hwolf> Riddell, It's 2 am, and I wanted some good news before going to bed. ;-)
[02:05] <Hwolf> omg. It's saturday already. In 10 hours i'll be rewriting business plans again. :-)
[02:06] <Hwolf> Good night to you all. 
[02:07] <mdz> daniels: if you don't have a seed, wget is preferable
[02:08] <daniels> mdz: right
[02:20] <lamont-away> mdz: so you're gonna be ready at :33, or did you not upload yet?
[02:28] <mjg59> daniels: Yeah, it switches off the backlight (as does vbetool dpms off), but it doesn's solve the power consumeption issues
[02:29] <daniels> mjg59: oh, hum
[02:29] <daniels> arse
[02:29] <mjg59> (V. V. Drunk)
[02:30] <daniels> mjg59: it is, after all, saturday morning
[02:30] <daniels> no better time
[02:30] <mjg59> I got dragged to a gay bar
[02:30] <mjg59> (Let's start a nuclear war)
[02:31] <mjg59> 1.5 bottles of wine, 3 pints, some spirits. Not too bad on the grand scale of things.
[02:34] <mdz> lamont: everything I need is uploaded
[02:34] <mdz> lamont: last thing was at 0054 UTC
[02:34] <lamont> so it should be in the archive now, yes?
[02:35] <mdz> in theory
[02:35] <mdz> but it isn't
[02:35] <lamont> gotta give it a little time to mirroor
[02:36] <mdz> build log is there
[02:36] <lamont> what state does Lists say?
[02:36] <mdz> where is Lists?
[02:36] <mdz> ah, buildLogs/Lists
[02:36] <mdz> utils/busybox-cvs_20040623-1ubuntu10: Installed by buildd+mcmurdo [-:out-of-date] 
[02:36] <mdz> misc/casper_0.26: Uploaded by buildd+rockhopper [-:out-of-date] 
[02:37] <lamont> so casper isn't, but busybox-cvs is
[02:37] <lamont> assuming those are the right versions
[02:38] <lamont> Jan 22 01:10:01 buildd-mail: casper has been installed; removing from upload dir:
[02:38] <lamont> \
[02:38] <lamont> that was 0.26
[02:38] <mdz> those are the right versions
[02:39] <lamont> hrm.. the logs aren't necessarily mirrored quite that quick... let me check.
[02:39] <mdz> casper 0.26 and busybox-cvs 1ubuntu10 are the ones I want
[02:39] <lamont> casper is arch: all, yes
[02:39] <lamont> ?
[02:39] <mdz> yes
[02:39] <lamont> so you want it to be missing from Lists/hoary.all.i386
[02:39] <lamont> and it is.
[02:39] <lamont> just not mirrored yet
[02:39] <lamont> launching d-i builds everywhere
[02:39] <mdz> thanks
[02:40] <T-Bone> lamont: will you be hanging around on IRC tomorrow?
[02:40] <T-Bone> lamont: i've finished salvaging my CVS stuff and can't do much hacking tonight (2:40AM), but will certainly test and debug ia64 stuff by tomorrow
[02:40] <lamont> T-Bone: dunno what the plan is for tomorrow...  afternoon (>7UTC) is pretty committed, for at least a few hours, earlier than that is possible
[02:40] <T-Bone> ok cool
[02:41] <lamont> wife has a full day, daughter #1 has a full day, daughter #2 is gonna have to find something to entertain herself with.
[02:41] <T-Bone> lol
[02:41] <lamont> me, I may just go download the rest of my aching mirror
[02:41] <lamont> 271 files to go
[02:41] <T-Bone> lamont: want me to play the baby-sitter? :^)
[02:41] <lamont> don't think you could fly here that quick
[02:41] <T-Bone> hehe
[02:42] <lamont> actually, not much babysitting involved
[02:42] <lamont> mdz: so you just need new d-i b its, not a new tarball?
[02:42] <lamont> s/tarball/rootfs/
[02:42] <mdz> lamont: correct
[02:42] <mdz> hell
[02:42] <T-Bone> lamont: i'll dl last iso tomorrow and hope that everything has been merged so that I can get the install to complete :)
[02:42] <mdz> elmo isn't around to byhand them, though
[02:43] <T-Bone> gnight all
[02:43] <mdz> so I don't suppose there's any point
[02:43] <lamont> mdz: I have the tarballs
[02:43] <lamont> or will have
[02:43] <mdz> it would be nice if we didn't need N people all to be present in order to make this work :-/
[02:44] <lamont> mdz: if you had a reasonably close mirror, you could always start building the SoCal edition...
[02:44] <mdz> no point in doing the d-i build, I guess
[02:45] <lamont> already running
[02:45] <lamont> and no point in killing it - the cleanup is annoying
[02:45] <lamont> so ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-base install on hppa.  of course that means _ABSOLUTELY_NOTHING_
[02:46] <lamont> mdz: what would you think of having the binary build of ubuntu-meta notice that base-$arch is missing, and use the Packages files in /var/apt/lists to go with the seeds to build something for the bastard step-child architectures?
[02:46] <daniels> lamont: if you don't need them, exclude xserver-xorg-dbg and xlibmesa-dri-dbg
[02:47] <daniels> lamont: there's a win there of 50mb per package per arch
[02:47] <mdz> lamont: I don't follow
[02:47] <lamont> yeah - that's most of the half of the 270.. :-)
[02:47] <mdz> lamont: why not do a source upload?
[02:47] <lamont> mdz: because the next source upload would trash it.
[02:47] <mdz> the decision to _not_ do anything funky like that during the binary package build was explicit
[02:47] <lamont> or would it?
[02:48] <mdz> the only thing which changes the lists in the source package is the update script
[02:48] <lamont> so the answer to my question is that you would strenuously object.  got it.
[02:48] <mdz> the binary build does nothing but gencontrol substitutions
[02:48] <lamont> what about making it FTBFS if {base,desktop}-$arch are not present?
[02:48] <mdz> it should work unchanged for all architectures in the main archive
[02:49] <mdz> hmm, it doesn't already do that?
[02:49] <lamont> no.  it builds a package with no Depends
[02:49] <lamont> which is cute but unhelpful
[02:49] <ogra> no pcmcia networking for me on the live cd today :(
[02:49] <mdz> failing would be preferable
[02:49] <lamont> mdz: OK.  will make the change
[02:50] <lamont> s/will/I will/
[02:50] <mdz> ogra: did you do any troubleshooting?
[02:51] <ogra> not yet.... its about 3am here....i'll do it tomorrow, but it detects fine, even dhcp detection is done in less then 2 seconds (normal) it seems to fail in the last stage
[02:52] <ogra> the rsolv.conf contains my local dns entry, but there is no pcmcia device...../etc/init.d/pcmcia is missing as well, is this intentional ?
[02:58] <lamont> ogra: which architecture?
[02:58] <lamont> i386?
[02:58] <ogra> amd64
[02:58] <lamont> mdz: guess we want to have pcmcia packages in the rootfs, eh?
[02:59] <lamont> Riddell: ??
[02:59] <mdz> ogra: does it work during the first stage?
[03:00] <mdz> ah, yes, it is
[03:00] <mdz> so I think lamont is correct
[03:00] <mdz> in fact I think I noticed that it was missing and forgot to email
[03:00] <ogra> i havent pinged or switched consoles
[03:00] <mdz> lamont: you'll want to be careful about the install though
[03:00] <mdz> lamont: I've seen pcmcia-cs hang non-laptops if it starts up
[03:00] <mdz> that's also going to be a problem for the live CD
[03:00] <mdz> but we need to fix that anyway
[03:00] <daniels> lamont: sorry
[03:01] <lamont> s/non-laptop/no pcmcia/, yes?
[03:01] <mdz> dunno, never saw a laptop without pcmcia
[03:01] <lamont> daniels: 12 uploaded you say?
[03:01] <ogra> mdz: i've seen that to on a desktop machine (pcmcia hangs)
[03:01] <daniels> lamont: not yet, but about to.  and a l-r-m.  with a new orig.
[03:01] <lamont> non-laptops can have pcmcia
[03:01] <mdz> well, not one capable of running Linux
[03:01] <lamont> daniels: life goes on
[03:01] <daniels> (but l-r-m won't happen desperately soon, given the orig takes 45min to upload)
[03:01] <mdz> I assume it's non-pcmcia
[03:01] <mdz> I have a bug open in bugzilla about a Dell (go figure) which has this problem
[03:02] <mdz> our new slogan should be "Ubuntu: don't buy a Dell!  kthxbye"
[03:02] <daniels> heh
[03:02] <daniels> mdz: at least it has PCI
[03:02] <ogra> mdz: i think you dont need to focus on getting pcmcia for non desktops to work
[03:02] <mdz> barely
[03:02] <daniels> someone tried installing Ubuntu on an ISA laptop not long ago
[03:02] <Riddell> lamont: ah, you're here
[03:02] <lamont> Riddell: replying to your mail now
[03:04] <mdz> I bet that fails spectacularly
[03:04] <ogra> err, /desktops/laptops/ indeed
[03:05] <ajmitch> hmm, /var is 50% full on my hoary box already
[03:05] <ogra> mdz: i think it would have worked, but the lappie only had 32MB.....so the guy gave up after about 2 weeks of struggling...
[03:06] <lamont> Riddell: sent
[03:06] <ogra> mdz: the guy daniels is talking about....
[03:07] <lamont> rc  pcmcia-cs      3.2.5-7ubuntu6 PCMCIA Card Services for Linux
[03:07] <lamont> I had it installed on my desktop at one point...
[03:07] <daniels> mdz: quite spectacularly, yes
[03:07] <Riddell> lamont: thanks
[03:08] <daniels> mdz: it also lacked a cd-rom drive
[03:08] <daniels> mdz: and had no netboot capability
[03:08] <mdz> lamont: it usually works
[03:08] <mdz> but sometimes doesn't
[03:09] <mdz> d-i has a check it uses to decide whether to install pcmcia-cs
[03:09] <mdz> I think init.d/pcmcia-cs should do the same
[03:09] <mdz> and then we can install it unconditionally
[03:15] <ogra> mdz: i can do more tests tomorrow morning if you like, any particular info i should collect additionally ?
[03:16] <mdz> ogra: I think lamont is correct, and the problem is simply that pcmcia-cs is not installed
[03:16] <mdz> ogra: please file a bug
[03:16] <ogra> ok
[03:21] <lamont> mdz: pointer to the logic?  and then I'll add it, upload, and update the package
[03:22] <lamont> s/package$/livecd script/
[03:22] <ogra> #5730
[03:22] <ogra> night all
[03:24] <thully_> hi - has anyone here been having trouble w/usb on the live cd?
[03:27] <elmo> mdz: your lack of faith is disturbing - of course I'm around
[03:28] <mdz> elmo: well, I hope you're at least drunk
[03:28] <mdz> elmo: does that mean you'll process the d-i uploads?
[03:29] <elmo> already done, they'll go out in the next cron.daily in 5 mins or so
[03:32] <daniels> mdz: are d-i uploads that depressing?
[03:32] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[03:33] <mdz> elmo: 20041227ubuntu6.0.200501220, right?
[03:33] <elmo> yeah
[03:34] <lamont> "it's a feature"
[03:37] <sladen> thully_: mdz thinks he's fixed it today.  Have you tried the latest build?
[03:37] <mdz> the one that's building right now is the first one with the fix
[03:38] <mdz> there is still a bug which breaks booting from a USB CD-ROM, though
[03:38] <thully_> no - I'm on a slow connection now
[03:38] <mdz> some udev/proc/something race
[03:40] <thully_> No - i'm talking about using usb devices
[03:42] <mdz> that's the one I fixed
[03:42] <mdz> the one which remains has to do with booting from a USB device
[03:45] <lamont> is xfree86 supposed to be in main?
[03:45] <lamont> oh. nm
[03:45] <lamont> that'd be warty-security hitting me.
[03:47] <mdz> new live cd builds are up
[03:47] <mdz> rsync is full, as usual
[03:48] <mdz> lamont: I _think_ the pcmcia-cs check is in base-installer
[03:48] <thully_> I tried an install, and looked at the part where the system asks about network cards
[03:48] <lamont> ok
[03:48] <mdz> nope
[03:49] <elmo> mdz: can you fix the trigger scripts on little?
[03:49] <thully_> One small change that would make it less confusing, especially for dial-up users, would be to move the "No network" option from the ethernet card configuration to the screen where you are asked to select a network card
[03:49] <mdz> ah, yes i tis
[03:49] <elmo> s/fix/alter/
[03:49] <lamont> case "$ARCH" in
[03:49] <lamont>         i386*)
[03:49] <lamont>                 if [ -e /proc/bus/pccard/drivers ] ; then
[03:49] <lamont>                         waypoint 1      install_pcmcia_modules
[03:49] <lamont>                 fi
[03:49] <lamont>         ;;
[03:49] <lamont> esac
[03:49] <lamont> that???
[03:50] <mdz> elmo: yes
[03:51] <mdz> thully_: my current feeling is that it should try to bring up each interface in turn, and if it fails, simply move on without prompting
[03:51] <thully_> on the live CD or the install CD also? 
[03:51] <mdz> at least the live CD, and maybe the install CD
[03:51] <thully_> I heard from the upstream author of the TrackPoint patch (that at one point was in hoary) that a new version will be out soon which supports trackpoint scrolling.  can this be added to hoary?
[03:52] <mdz> I need to get Kamion's opinion
[03:52] <thully_> when it's ready
[03:52] <mdz> thully_: it was removed because it broke normal PS/2 mice
[03:52] <daniels> thully_: no, I told you as much in the bug
[03:52] <mdz> so it cannot be restored unless that entire class of bugs is fixed
[03:53] <thully_> well - I'll ask him if this was fixed in the latest version
[03:53] <elmo> hmm, language-* is uninstallable.  neat.
[03:54] <thully_> what was the exact problem - did it screw up PS/2 mice connected to a laptop with a touchpad, or all PS/2 mice?
[03:54] <daniels> it would misdetect some normal PS/2 mice as being TrackPoints
[03:54] <daniels> the moment any PS/2 patch (TrackPoint, ALPS, whatever) intrudes on other mice, it gets cut
[03:55] <thully_> what caused misdetection, out of curiosity, (so I can pass this on to the author of this patch) 
[03:56] <elmo> WTF
[03:57] <daniels> thully_: the TrackPoint patch probes the mouse to see what type it is (as with all of these wacky patches), but gets it wrong in some cases as it's too wide as to what it includes
[03:57] <daniels> elmo: ?
[03:58] <thully_> OK
[04:10] <mdz> elmo: for all values of *?
[04:11] <elmo> mdz: oh, I dunno about rigourously 'all', but britney output is certainly chocker full of whining about it
[04:11] <elmo> anastacia doesn't want to sync anything else tho.. am checking with a hoary chroot now
[04:12] <thully_> I have a little question concerning the sound server - is polypaudio still planned for Hoary?
[04:12] <mdz> thully_: according to jdub, yes
[04:12] <mdz> if you're going to ask about releasing the sound device, please be patient
[04:13] <thully_> OK - i realize that it makes no sense to fix something that will be irrelevant soon (as polypaudio is a different animal)
[04:14] <thully_> another sound question - has ALSA been fixed in hoary?  it seemed to mute itself often a couple days ago
[04:16] <elmo> hmm, the hoary chroot thinks the language-packs are installable
[04:16] <elmo> oh,meh, it's all ia64.  clearly I need to go to sleep
[04:16] <elmo> anyway, mirnyy is growing a cdimage mirror, it's already got daily-live/, if anyone's still struggling to get an update
[04:17] <thully_> and caused me to go crazy looking for my volume control - as now it is hidden by default when the sound is completely set to 0
[04:17] <elmo> mdz: can you change little to also pulse mirnyy, please?  for cdimage, I mean, it already does for releases
[04:17] <mdz> is it in the rotation for cdimage.u.c?
[04:17] <elmo> mdz: not yet, no
[04:17] <mdz> elmo: if I read the script right, it already does
[04:21] <elmo> [of course, while it's syncing at Gb across the LAN and saturating the RAID 5 with writes, it's performance won't be much better than auckland, but it'll finish in 10 mins or so I guess] 
[04:23] <mdz> lamont: amd64 seems to be missing pre-generated locales
[04:23] <mdz> lamont: other than that, it works fine
[04:24] <mdz> lamont: excellent, in fact
[04:24] <mdz> thully_: yes, that bug has been fixed
[04:25] <mdz> you may need to dpkg-reconfigure alsa-base and select 'autosave always' if you installed from a bad CD
[04:26] <elmo> night all
[04:26] <mdz> night
[04:29] <lamont> mdz: sadly...
[04:29] <lamont> Error: sizeof(DWORD) != 4 (8)
[04:29] <lamont> This version has been compiled with an uncompatible version of gcc.
[04:29] <lamont> so, no, you don't have a new-style cloop on amd64
[04:30] <lamont> elmo: just btw, partimage should be PaSed on amd64
[04:30] <thully_> does the volume control applet still disappear when sound is completely muted?
[04:30] <lamont> sent 164226 bytes  received 7638638 bytes  12802.07 bytes/sec
[04:30] <lamont> total size is 549206016  speedup is 70.39
[04:30] <lamont> mdz: looks like you missed an update, or one of the others was big
[04:33] <lamont> mdz: so... decision time for amd64....
[04:33] <lamont> do you want rsyncable images that grow until they don't fit on the CD?
[04:33] <lamont> or do you want clean painful-to-rsync images?
[04:33] <lamont> we could just nuke them every saturday morning, and let them grow all week...
[04:34] <lamont> or 1st and 16th, or some such...
[04:34] <lamont> thoughts?
[04:38] <robertj> woah!
[04:39] <robertj> I'm getting elements fly across my screen
[04:39] <robertj> err flying, like things are being almost dragged and dropped in fast motion
[04:39] <robertj> I see mimetype icons appear, drag, and disappear
[04:39] <robertj> anyone heard of that happening?
[04:41] <mpt> robertj, take the book off your mouse
[04:42] <robertj> the cursor aint moving
[04:43] <mpt> hmmm
[04:43] <mpt> Got nothing resting on your Enter key?
[04:44] <ajmitch> maybe your computer is possessed
[04:45] <robertj> nope
[04:45] <robertj> it's not happening now though
[04:48] <mdz> lamont: let' talk about it tomorrow; need to go to dinner
[04:50] <ajmitch> ok, time to test patched init for selinux..
[04:50] <sladen> lamont: with  rsync --delete  the CDs shouldn't be growing.  partimage -e  is zeroing everything and the large image is catching defragmentation?
[04:52] <lamont> sladen: amd64 has no partimage
[04:52] <lamont> have a nice day, it says
[04:53] <lamont> so, rsync --delete --inplace --no-whole-file, and file size changes may or may not result in some new,  non-zero unused blocks on the device.
[04:53] <lamont> hence growth in the cloop
[04:53] <sladen> lamont: scp cd.ext2 x86-box: && ssh x86-box partimage -e && scp x86-box:cd.ext2 .
[04:53] <lamont> but it should be slow.. I'm inclined to just let it grow and see what the trend is first
[04:53] <lamont> not really feasible in the current build environment
[04:54] <lamont> nor should we be using other architectures to do our dirty work..
[04:54] <lamont> I'm more inclined to spend a little love on partimage.
[04:54] <lamont> if the growth rate becomes evil
[04:54] <sladen> lamont: it shouldn't need much at all.  Is it a build failure, or has somebody expressly marked it as x86/ppc only?
[04:55] <sladen> and/or 64-bit unclean
 Error: sizeof(DWORD) != 4 (8)
 This version has been compiled with an uncompatible version of gcc.
[04:55] <lamont> runtime error
[04:55] <lamont> and PaS on ia64/alpha (and now amd64 in debian...)
[04:58] <sladen> hmmm.  Loving time, hopefully it shouldn't be too big---I don't think partimage is /that/ big
[05:00] <ajmitch> yay, my machine doesn't boot now :)
[05:01] <ajmitch> I think udev is not working with selinux yet
[05:05] <lamont> doko around?
[05:07] <ajmitch> udev+selinux doesn't work without tmpfs
[05:09] <lamont> sladen: it may be kinda trivial...
[05:09] <lamont> typedef bool BOOL; // variant size
[05:09] <lamont> typedef unsigned char BYTE; // 8 bits
[05:09] <lamont> typedef unsigned short int WORD; // 16 bits
[05:09] <lamont> typedef unsigned long int DWORD; // 32 bits
[05:09] <lamont> typedef unsigned long long int QWORD; // 64 bits
[05:09] <sladen> D'oh!
[05:10] <daniels> oh my god
[05:10] <lamont> # if  ((~0UL) == 0xffffffff))
[05:10] <lamont> now there's a cool hack
[05:10] <sladen> #include <asm/types.h>
[05:11] <daniels> anyone with more of a clue on #5646 would be appreciated
[05:11] <sladen> lamont: probably breaks if you're cross compiling
[05:13] <sladen> daniels: ./q3demo +r_gldriver libGL.so.1   I think.  Do you want me to start the laptop up and find out
[05:15] <lamont> why does partimage's _clean_ target run configure, I wonder...
[05:15] <ajmitch> they sometimes do that, to regenerate the makefile for some reason
[05:16] <sladen> daniels: esdctl off ; ./q3demo +set r_gldriver libGL.so.1 ; esdctl on
[05:21] <daniels> sladen: ah cool, thanks
[05:40] <lamont> mdz: what's the magic for livecd?
[05:42] <lamont> or does one just hit return and ignore the fact that it wqyw install type things?
[05:42] <sladen> daniels: strange.  xorg under hoary works without that now
[05:43] <daniels> sladen: word.  go me.
[05:47] <lamont-live> moo
[05:48] <lamont> mdz: we still don't take over swap?
[05:48] <lamont> or is my laptop config wacko?
[05:49] <lamont> my poor laptop has 3.9MB of free RAM once it boots
[05:49] <lamont> (livecd that is)
[06:06] <daniels> 'linux custom' is the right foo to get a ubuntu-desktop-less install, no?
[06:07] <ajmitch> I believe so
[06:07] <ajmitch> at least it was for the warty installer
[06:09] <wasabi> so is ubuntu going to have a supported server install, you know, with all the same focus on Just Working as the desktop?
[06:09] <wasabi> (like windows and os x )
[06:10] <lamont> well, actually, almost 30MB, counting the buffer cache
[06:11] <daniels> wasabi: we already have it
[06:11] <daniels> ajmitch: right, for warty
[06:11] <wasabi> no, i said "like os x and windows"
[06:11] <wasabi> =)
[06:11] <ajmitch> wasabi: I heard yes :)
[06:11] <pixelmonkey> I have a question: is Hoary's menu supposed to be a bit broken right now, i.e. Applications menu icons not appearing
[06:13] <ajmitch> pixelmonkey: it appears fine here
[06:13] <daniels> wasabi: could you be less specific?
[06:13] <pixelmonkey> ajmitch: is there a way I can get gnome to rebuild its menus?
[06:13] <wasabi> daniels: i could.
[06:14] <ajmitch> pixelmonkey: no idea, sorry
[06:14] <wasabi> daniels: uis for server software, click to install apache, etc
[06:14] <wasabi> integration between components...
[06:14] <wasabi> like a default kerberos/openldap setup
[06:18] <sladen> pixelmonkey: it's a race condition.  do  pkill -u $USER  and log back in
[06:41] <pixelmonkey> I think my applications-all-users.vfolder-info is a bit broken or something, which is why my menus are insane... basically, under Applications there is a folder called "Applications" which has every app which was on my old menu, then I have all the typical categories without their icons and a "Settingsmenu" with settings under Desktop
[06:44] <lamont> gui_text.cpp:88: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
[06:44] <lamont> so much for simple
[06:45] <lamont> 64-bit love for partimage is gonna actually take some work.
[06:46] <lamont> 293 lines of warnings, most of them fatal
[06:46] <ajmitch> rebuilding linux-image looks like it may take awhile
[06:46] <jdub> morning dudes
[06:46] <ajmitch> hi jdub 
[06:46] <lamont> morning jdub
[06:49] <jdub> what's a good hostname for an accesspoint/router?
[06:50] <daniels> jdub: 'disruptive'
[06:50] <jdub> haha
[06:50] <daniels> (seriously, that's what my wrt is called)
[06:50] <jdub> just got a wrt54gs to replace the one we gave to pipka's parents
[06:52] <lamont> ajmitch: 2-7 hours depending on the architecture
[06:54] <ajmitch> lamont: I'm expecting >24 if I actually build on my hoary box (a 400MHz k6/2)
[06:56] <lamont> yeah... the buildd's are a bit faster than that
[06:57] <ajmitch> either that or I finally setup the chroot on my sid box
[06:58] <mdz> lamont: current casper searches /dev/[hs] d[a-z] [0-9] * for swap and activates it if it finds any
[06:58] <mdz> lamont: did it not work for you?
[06:59] <lamont> could be I have the wrong fstype on the partitioon...
[06:59] <lamont> I'll check that
[06:59] <mdz> it looks for the swap space signature
[07:00] <mdz> so if swapon works on it, casper should find it
[07:00] <ajmitch> crap, apt-proxy uninstallable
[07:03] <mdz> jdub: rsyncable live CDs, courtesy of lamont
[07:05] <ajmitch> looks like there's a few packages in universe that need to be rebuilt for python 2.4
[07:06] <crimsun> I've been pointing out to ogra the ones I'm running up against, ajmitch.
[07:06] <lamont> ajmitch: for a sufficiently large value of "a few"?
[07:06] <jdub> mdz: elite! what was the fix?
[07:06] <ajmitch> lamont: just the ones I'm trying to install :)
[07:07] <ajmitch> I can't give numbers yet
[07:07] <mdz> jdub: layer upon layer of cleverness
[07:07] <mdz> jdub: if I tell you too much your brain will explode
[07:07] <ajmitch> grep-dctrl should tell me..
[07:07] <jdub> haha
[07:07] <jdub> rock!
[07:08] <mdz> jdub: now it does an rsync based on the old filesystem, and then copies only the allocated blocks to a new file (to zero out the free space)
[07:08] <mdz> so unmodified files stay in exactly the same place
[07:08] <mdz> and in theory, even modified files should tend to stay put
[07:10] <jdub> can this method also be used with install cd images?
[07:10] <mdz> lamont: any luck with the swap? if there's a case I've missed, I'd like to fix it
[07:10] <mdz> not really
[07:10] <mdz> but install images are iso9660, so they don't have these problems
[07:10] <jdub> given that post-uvf, half the debs are the same?
[07:11] <mdz> there is no free space, and every file is contiguous
[07:11] <mdz> so they already rsync very well
[07:11] <lamont> SwapTotal:           0 kB
[07:11] <lamont> SwapFree:            0 kB
[07:11] <lamont> what do you know - no swap
[07:11] <lamont> that's non-live
[07:13] <lamont> type 83, no swap footprint that I could see....
[07:13] <lamont> rebooting with swap actually present on the disk.
[07:14] <ajmitch> lamont: 155 packages
[07:14] <ajmitch> that depend on python (<< 2.4)
[07:18] <lamont> jdub: they should go faster after that...
[07:18] <lamont> mdz: once I did the mkswap, it found it just fine... :-)
[07:19] <mdz> good
[07:19] <jdub> mdz: how about the usb issue?
[07:19] <ajmitch> can swap be on an LVM volume instead of a partition?
[07:19] <mdz> jdub: fixed in the current build
[07:19] <mdz> the one I was chasing yesterday, anyway
[07:19] <ajmitch> or will it not find that?
[07:19] <jdub> ajmitch: apt-proxy (and v2) are poo - it would be great to have a replacement :-)
[07:20] <jdub> mdz: known fix or magic?
[07:20] <ajmitch> jdub: I know, but with 128kbit, I need something
[07:20] <sladen> ajmitch: yes.  (Is this a #ubuntu question?)
[07:20] <mdz> ajmitch: it wouldn't find that, no
[07:20] <ajmitch> sladen: asking mdz 
[07:20] <mdz> sladen: he was asking about the live CD auto swap activation
[07:21] <sladen> aaah *nod*
[07:21] <mdz> sladen: did you see I finally nailed that weird USB bug?
[07:21] <mdz> it turned out to be a kernel thread getting killed by a signal
[07:21] <sladen> mdz: from the killall5 ?
[07:22] <mdz> sladen: killall5 is smart and skips them, but busybox mini-init, on the other hand...
[07:22] <jdub> heh
[07:22] <mdz> Colin patched it up this morning, and I fiddled with it until it worked
[07:23] <jdub> mdz: so in preparation for polypaudio, the recommended configuration is to close the device when it's not in use
[07:23] <jdub> mdz: but that may result in the device being opened by something not configured to use polypaudio/esd
[07:23] <mdz> jdub: thully will be thrilledully
[07:24] <jdub> heh
[07:31] <lamont> mdz: btw, current script just skips the partimage-scrubbing step if it's not there, so ia64 and amd64 should be rsyncable, but we'll have to keep an eye on the size of the image, and decide how often to rebuild it from scratch
[07:31] <lamont> (and take the rsync bump)
[07:32] <mdz> ex
[07:32] <mdz> ok
[07:34] <lamont> what package creates /usr/lib/terminfo/u/unknown?
[07:37] <ajmitch> jdub: you're right, apt-proxy is quite broken when used with hoary, as I think it recompresses Packages.gz
[07:38] <jdub> ajmitch: it's broken normally anyway ;)
[07:38] <ajmitch> it is at least functional when used with sid :)
[07:38] <ajmitch> I did start writing my own proxy in python at one point
[07:38] <ajmitch> which was crap code
[07:38] <mdz> lamont: ncurses-term: /usr/share/terminfo/u/unknown
[07:39] <lamont> ah - symlink pain.
[07:39] <lamont> ok
[07:56] <lamont> mdz: next amd64 and ia64 downloads may experience full-size issues, since I think they're actually the first of the rsyncable string on their architectures.
[07:57] <lamont> i386/ppc should already be fine
[08:03] <mdz> someone else look at the function get_ide_offset in /etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh
[08:04] <mdz> and tell me if it makes any sense whatsoever
[08:04] <mdz> oh, it does, never mind
[08:15] <ajmitch_> arse
[08:15] <ajmitch_> computer just decided to reboot 
[09:04] <__daniel> hai
[09:14] <ajmitch> hello
[09:21] <froud> where can I get rc3 hoary from a site in the US?
[09:26] <ajmitch> fabbione: sorry about missing the tmpfs option first time round
[09:27] <Mithrandir> froud: use a torrent?
[09:27] <froud> no
[09:27] <froud> have a mirror in co.za but they cap the download to 9KB per sec
[09:28] <froud> at 500+ that's a long download
[09:28] <Mithrandir> froud: archive.ubuntu.com is in the UK and has a lot better bandwidth than that.
[09:28] <froud> Lookfor the the ISO
[09:29] <Mithrandir> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive has a list
[09:29] <Mithrandir> including four in the US
[09:29] <froud> http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/sounder-test/current/
[09:29] <froud> that sounds good
[09:30] <mdz> those CDs are ancient; you don't want them
[09:30] <mdz> where did you find that link?
[09:30] <mdz> those pre-date the current stable release
[09:30] <froud> mdz, didn't just used my common sense
[09:31] <mdz> if you want the latest pre-release stuff, it's at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/
[09:31] <froud> when Mithrandir said archive. I looked
[09:31] <mdz> the stable release is at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/4.10/release/
[09:32] <froud> mdz, have problems with 4.10 on box
[09:32] <froud> cant get    past base installation
[09:32] <Mithrandir> froud: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/array-3/ is what you want
[09:32] <froud> OK now I have two http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[09:33] <froud> mdz, but other distros install fine on the same machine
[09:33] <mdz> try hoary, and if hoary doesn't work either, file a bug
[09:33] <froud> yes, that's the plan
[09:34] <froud> also need hoary for the docs
[09:35] <froud> mdz, you think I should use the http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/
[09:35] <froud> and Mithrandir says array-3
[09:35] <mdz>  /daily/ is the leading edge of development
[09:35] <mdz> array-3 is the current milestone
[09:36] <froud> mdz, so if I install array-3 how can I then get to edge
[09:36] <mdz> by upgrading
[09:36] <froud> and keep on edge
[09:36] <mdz> regularly
[09:37] <froud> ok but that URL is iso images, where do I do my apt get from
[09:38] <mdz> this is getting a bit off-topic for this channel; glad to answer further questions in #ubuntu
[09:38] <froud> fine
[10:04] <__daniel> are there any plans to step from gcc-3.3 to 3.4 or 4.0 (once it is released)?
[10:05] <__daniel> even in 3.4 there were some improvements for amd64
[10:13] <mdz> not for Hoary, but perhaps for the release after Hoary
[10:13] <__daniel> erm... i mean recompiling the packages too, because yesterday seb128 and i tried to sort out, why gnome-launch-box on amd64 gives a floatingpoint exception - the imendio guys said it worked nice on their amd64, they guessed it could be a gcc issue (they used 3.4)
[10:14] <__daniel> ah... ok
[10:14] <__daniel> (that's what expected :-))
[10:16] <__daniel> i only wished someone could tell me, why gdb only spits out memory adresses and nothing useful in its backtraces, although i installed -dbg packages and did not strip the binaries in-question
[10:16] <sivang> Moins all
[10:17] <__daniel> hellas sivang!
[10:17] <sivang> (that was a rather quick night sleep)
[10:17] <__daniel> when did you go to bed, sivang?
[10:17] <sivang> __daniel: Hello! :-)
[10:17] <sivang> __daniel: around the last time I awayed my irssi , approx.
[10:19] <daniels> kkkkkeeeyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkkkkk
[10:23] <sivang> mdz: you didn't build a new image overnight right? (my night)
[11:23] <pitti> Morning folks!
[11:24] <abelli> pitti: ciao
[11:24] <abelli> pitti: does your kernel like frame buffer?
[11:24] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[11:24] <sivang> pitti: Moins!
[11:25] <pitti> abelli: on ppc yes, but not on my i386 desktop
[11:25] <abelli> argh..
[11:25] <abelli> it's "all black"
[11:27] <pitti> abelli: right, but just wait until X starts
[11:27] <abelli> yeah i know..
[11:28] <sivang>  /msg nickserv identify speedy123
[11:28] <abelli> sivang: ops
[11:28] <sivang> hrm
[11:28] <sivang> that was not good.
[11:28] <ajmitch> no, it might be time to change that one
[11:28] <sivang> ajmitch: yepss ;-/
[11:28] <abelli> ciao im off..
[11:28] <pitti> D'oh
[11:28] <pitti> "mind the gap"
[11:28] <pitti> i. e. the space
[11:28] <sivang> pitti: exactly.
[11:29] <ajmitch> compiler has segfaulted once, and had one kernel oops.. hopefully it'll build this time :)
[11:32] <amu> moins 
[11:36] <pitti> Hi amu!
[11:37] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[11:38] <amu> servus pitti 
[11:43] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[11:45] <pitti> cool, just got my Python Cookbook
[11:47] <sivang> pitti: o la la ;-)
[11:47] <sivang> pitti: sounds tasty
[11:49] <pitti> Hi Riddell! Just mailed you about koffice
[11:51] <lifeless> jdub, mdz: oh, baz 1.1.1 is released, that would be good to get into hoary
[11:59] <Riddell> pitti: uploaded
[12:03] <daniels> sjoerd: read yo' email
[12:16] <sjoerd> daniels: you mean the bindings patch ?
[12:18] <daniels> yah
[12:20] <sjoerd> nice
[12:22] <sjoerd> i'll probably push it to experimental today (well to NEW in that case..)
[12:26] <Riddell> lamont: kdewebdev is missing logs for i386, could you tell it to try again?
[12:28] <Riddell> lamont: any idea why k3b/0.11.18-2ubuntu1/ has a ia64-successful and a ia64-successfull (sic)?
[12:28] <amu> elmo: ping 
[12:32] <Riddell> lamont: kdeedu is missing logs for i386 and ia64
[12:44] <no0tic> hi, where Can I find changelogs for updated packages?
[12:45] <Riddell> no0tic: hoary-changes
[12:45] <__daniel> no0tic: /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.{Debian.gz,gz} or install  apt-listchanges 
[12:45] <amu> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/changelogs/pool/
[12:47] <no0tic> tnx
[12:58] <amu> daniels: *remind* dbus-qt 
[01:00] <daniels> amu: yeah, I haven't forgotten :)
[01:02] <amu> daniels: no prob, kind of blocker atm :) 
[01:03] <daniels> heh yeah, i have a patch that i'm just looking over now
[01:03] <daniels> but it is 2303 on a saturday, heh
[01:05] <amu> .oo ohh today it's saturday? which year? ;)
[01:06] <amu> releax, do it if you have time for it 
[01:06] <ogra> morning
[01:06] <__daniel> hellas ogra :-)
[01:07] <Riddell> compiler question: what does -fPIC mean?
[01:09] <__daniel> riddell: "If supported for the target machine, emit positionindependent code, suitable for dynamic linking and avoiding any limit on the size of the global offset table. This option makes a difference on the m68k, m88k, and the SPARC.   --    Positionindependent code requires special support, and therefore works only on certain machines."   :-)
[01:09] <daniels> amu: heh, 2005
[01:09] <daniels> amu: yeah, I'm going to sort it either when I get back (later tonight) or tomorrow, just about to head out
[01:49] <__daniel> Keybuk: daniels seems to have called you earlier today: ;-) (10:19:41) daniels: kkkkkeeeyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkkkkk 
[01:50] <Nafallo> hehe, that didn't give hilight then *s*.
[01:57] <Keybuk> Nafallo: well, no; it's quite hard for my IRC client to detect highlight when I'm not logged in <g>
[01:57] <Keybuk> __daniel: yeah, I saw his blog post.  I think he was trying to use Libtool, it's a common reaction
[01:57] <ogra> lol
[01:58] <Nafallo> Keybuk: hehe. I should get more jolt for myself ;-).
[01:58] <ogra> hmm, why is daniels not on planet ubuntu ?
[02:27] <haggai> jdub: apt-proxy v2 isn't poo becuase it needs replacing, it just needs some help because the author died...
[02:28] <haggai> lamont: any idea what's up with oo2-ubuntu8?  No buildd logs
[02:47] <kent> can one have both oo2 and oo1 installed in Hoary?
[02:50] <Riddell> kent: no, openoffice 2 isn't in hoary yet
[03:00] <opi> hi
[03:00] <opi> is launchpad down, or I just have a ,,bad network'' day?
[03:07] <__daniel> opi: doesnt work for me either
[03:08] <opi> __daniel: damn, I've some spare time to play with Rosetta, and it's gone :-)
[03:13] <jdub> smurfix: 'ubuntu-cc'?
[03:16] <lamont> universe/editors/openoffice.org2_1.9.66-0ubuntu8: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova [-:uncompiled] 
[03:16] <lamont>   Dependencies: dmake (>= 4.3-1)
[03:16] <lamont> haggai: does the dmake build-dep need to be killed?
[03:26] <HostingGeek> __daniel == daniels ?
[03:27] <ogra> nope
[03:28] <Keybuk> mdz: dude, are we having TB meetings weekly now ? :p
[03:36] <danielh> hm
[03:39] <fabbione> daniels: ping
[03:40] <danielh> maybe better  dholbach , so you guys wont have to type daniels completely :-)
[03:41] <jdub> *screeech* namespace b0000rk! :-)
[03:41] <fabbione> there is a *daniel* inflation here
[03:41] <ogra> hehe
[03:41] <dholbach> maybe that's better
[03:42] <ogra> dholbach: youre changing colors all the time.....
[03:42] <dholbach> ok... i'm set now :-)
[03:42] <dholbach> :-)
[03:44] <HostingGeek> hmm is it just me or are both au mirrors down?
[03:45] <HostingGeek> thats it i am learning python 
[03:59] <dholbach> i'm off... bye
[03:59] <ogra> ciao :)
[04:00] <dholbach> bye ogra
[04:08] <jdub> Kamion: ?
[04:08] <jdub> Kamion: fucken idiotic 2am idea for you.
[04:08] <jdub> Kamion: http://www.adam-lilienthal.de/directvnc/
[04:09] <Keybuk> Kamion is at the pub with the rest of the debian-uk folks, I expect
[04:10] <jdub> haha
[04:10] <jdub> i'll sms him
[04:13] <jdub> we need to get colin an incredibles tshirt
[04:13] <jdub> and claim the i stands for INSTALLERMAN
[04:27] <fabbione> error: command 'gcc' terminated by signal 11
[04:27] <fabbione> this is not good.. is it?
[04:28] <siretart> most probable reason is defective ram for that errormsg
[04:29] <fabbione> siretart: it's a very remote possibility.. considering that it happens only building one specific program
[04:37] <jdub> Device seems to be: Generic mmc2 DVD-ROM.
[04:37] <jdub> cdrecord: Warning: controller returns wrong size for CD capabilities page.
[04:37] <jdub> cdrecord: Warning: controller returns wrong size for CD capabilities page.
[04:37] <jdub> cdrecord: Warning: controller returns wrong size for CD capabilities page.
[04:37] <jdub> Using generic SCSI-3/mmc   CD-R/CD-RW driver (mmc_cdr).
[04:37] <jdub> Driver flags   : MMC-3 SWABAUDIO BURNFREE FORCESPEED
[04:38] <jdub> Supported modes:
[04:38] <jdub> 
[04:38] <jdub> nice one. :|
[04:38] <ogra> jdub: still struggling with your writer ?
[04:38] <jdub> yeah, just this one in my desktop
[04:39] <ogra> does n-c-b work ?
[04:39] <jdub> cdrecord doesn't work, so... :-)
[04:39] <ogra> hmm
[04:40] <ogra> ho do you access it ? dev= ?
[04:40] <ogra> how even
[04:40] <jdub> dev=ATAPI:/dev/hdc
[04:41] <ogra> drop the ATAPI:
[04:41] <jdub> aha, if i run it as root, i get supported modes
[04:42] <ogra> cdrecord doesnt like the ATAPI: thingie....try with a simple dev=/dev/hdc, then it should work as user too
[04:42] <jdub> red light is on
[04:42] <jdub> cpu at 100%
[04:42] <jdub> rawk
[04:42] <ogra> uhh
[04:43] <sivang> jdub: 2.6.something made the need for the emulation layer redundet ;-)
[04:43] <jdub> sivang: thus the above, it's not using scsi emu
[04:44] <jdub> oh, i mistook the orange light for the red light
[04:44] <jdub> there are two
[04:44] <jdub> orange again, 66% cpu
[04:44] <sivang> jdub: orange sounds good
[04:44] <ogra> yup
[04:44] <kent> 66% cpu,  isn't that a bit much?
[04:44] <jdub> at least this seems to be doing something slightly more sane than it did with windows
[04:52] <HostingGeek> hey why doesn't ubuntu use xfce 4.2 menu editor!?!?!? it gtk+, it follows the freedesktop standard it in the bg in this screeny: http://de.lunar-linux.org/xfce4/screenshots/snap_VII.jpg
[04:52] <HostingGeek> it has feature people like to see
[04:53] <azeem> and it looks horrible
[04:53] <ogra> this doesnt look usable
[04:54] <kent> HostingGeek, im against using temporaly solutions for problems which we can solve by our self. Next Gnome release might have a better application, and we cant just change applications time to time. As long as programs comes tith a .desktop-file there no hurry with menu-editing.
[04:55] <HostingGeek> azeem: no it doesn't
[04:55] <HostingGeek> its in gtk
[04:55] <HostingGeek> its a nice GUI
[04:55] <robertj> looks fair but not good enough
[04:55] <HostingGeek> ogra: its more useble than than what gnome HAD
[04:56] <HostingGeek> robertj: it has all features NEEDED
[04:56] <robertj> The Applications menu serves as a place from which to drag launchers to your panel ;)
[04:56] <robertj> HostingGeek: true has all the features needed
[04:56] <robertj> there really isn't a problem with the Applications dropdown not being editable
[04:56] <ogra> HostingGeek: not at all..... and i doubt my mom would be able to use it (in opposition to the applicatins:// location gnome used before)
[04:57] <robertj> ogr: I've found that on OS X the Appliations folder isn't that intuitive for users
[04:57] <wasabi> hah
[04:57] <HostingGeek> ogra: my dad said wtf is this applicatins:///
[04:57] <HostingGeek> i gave this program and he loved it
[04:57] <wasabi> you guys know you COULD have right clicked in the menu and hit "Add" directly.
[04:58] <wasabi> Without applications:///
[04:58] <ogra> mabe, but its still a horrible UI i wouldnt give to anyone
[04:58] <HostingGeek> be aware my dad is a idiot at computer and doesn't understand what a os is
[04:58] <robertj> Application installer is where it's at
[04:58] <robertj> if you can't installing an app with application installer, you need help
[04:59] <robertj> my personal gnome gripe of the day (GOTD) is that folder launchers can't be dragged to to place files
[05:00] <robertj> last night I dragged a python file to a random folder and it launched Rhythmbox
[05:00] <robertj> actually right now launchers to directories dont seem to do anything
[05:00] <ogra> HostingGeek: do you think my mom is rocket sience engineer ?
[05:01] <ogra> HostingGeek: she wouldnt be able to use such a cluttered app 
[05:01] <HostingGeek> ogra: do you think my dad is
[05:01] <HostingGeek> ogra: my dad is 80
[05:02] <jdub> wasabi: dude, that mail was so unproductive.
[05:02] <wasabi> i suspose
[05:02] <wasabi> i couldn't hit unsend though heh
[05:02] <jdub> "Ubuntu CD detected "
[05:03] <jdub> "You can automatically upgrade from it, start the package manager application or cancel"
[05:04] <HostingGeek> wtf?
[05:04] <sjoerd> jdub: more crack for gvm ?
[05:04] <ogra> sjoerd: nope, update-notifier
[05:04] <jdub> sjoerd: update-notifier.
[05:04] <sjoerd> ah
[05:05] <wasabi> this is odd. i think update-initrd is leaving off my scsi driver on 2.6.10
[05:12] <haggai> lamont: ah, thanks for the link.  Please clear the dep-wait, I uploaded a pkg that uses the internal dmake again
[05:14] <ogra> jdup is the source for monkey-juice anywhere available (i would like to have a amd64 version)
[05:14] <jdub> monkey-juice?
[05:15] <jdub> mdz: livecd is elite.
[05:15] <sivang> jdub: livecd allows you to upgrade your warty system?
[05:15] <jdub> sivang: no, it's a bug.
[05:16] <ogra> jdub: -journal....sorry
[05:16] <jdub> ogra: oh. www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/ ?
[05:16] <HrdwrBoB> hello
[05:16] <jdub> yo HrdwrBoB 
[05:17] <seb128> wasabi: stop trolling on this list :p
[05:17] <ogra> jdub: thanks :)
[05:18] <jdub> seb128: bring up epiphany again!
[05:18] <seb128> what about epiphany ?
[05:18] <jdub> "Why do you guys ship Firefox instead of Epiphany?"
[05:19] <jdub> "Iz GTK+ bug."
[05:19] <seb128> ah ah
[05:19] <seb128> that's right
[05:19] <seb128> jdub: why you guys ship firefox ? :p
[05:19] <seb128> GIMME EPIPHANY
[05:19] <lamont> haggai: wacking
[05:20] <seb128> and thom has screwed the firefox update which was supposed to fix the typeahead
[05:20] <seb128> thhooooooooooooom
[05:20] <seb128> thom: do you mind if I upload firefox to fix the typeahead ? :p
[05:20] <ogra> fabbione: no ?
[05:20] <fabbione> no
[05:20] <jdub> seb128: last one who touched it gets to be maintainer.
[05:21] <seb128> doh
[05:21] <sivang> seb128: epiphany also uses java?
[05:21] <ogra> fabbione: hmm, weird people....
[05:21] <seb128> I'll send a patch rather so :p
[05:21] <fabbione> that's what i did with apache :-)
[05:21] <seb128> sivang: java ? to do what ?
[05:21] <fabbione> ops
[05:21] <lamont> haggai: done
[05:21] <seb128> jdub: how crazy would it be to set the default pdf viewer to evince ? :)
[05:22] <sivang> seb128: it would be good! do it :)
[05:22] <jdub> seb128: it's really tempting, isn't it?
[05:22] <bradb> jdub: come cool down in montreal. it's a relaxing -22C here.
[05:22] <jdub> seb128: i think we should go with gpdf though.
[05:22] <jdub> seb128: evince for bendy :)
[05:22] <seb128> jdub: no type3 fonts support in gpdf
[05:22] <jdub> seb128: martink fixed that, i'm sure
[05:22] <jdub> martink: ping
[05:23] <seb128> jdub: I pinged him 2 days ago, he didn't and he has no ETA
[05:23] <jdub> oh
[05:23] <jdub> what does evince do?
[05:23] <seb128> jdub: he said we should keep xpdf rather gpdf he doesn't know when he'll do that
[05:23] <seb128> yep
[05:23] <jdub> i thought it used fixed gpdf code
[05:23] <seb128> no, evince integrates more xpdf code afaik
[05:23] <jdub> i'm sorely tempted, dude.
[05:24] <seb128> :)
[05:24] <jdub> i'll chat to jrb and co about it.
[05:24] <seb128> ok, thanks
[05:24] <seb128> c'mon, xpdf is ugly, evince is niiiiiice :)
[05:24] <jdub> seb128: gnome-launch-box is weird.
[05:24] <martink> sorry for gpdf non-fixing. I'm a terrible slacker
[05:25] <seb128> it doesn't work fine here, but I've uploaded since people keep asking for it :p
[05:25] <jdub> martink: we still love you ;)
[05:25] <seb128> jdub: be careful, don't get a .desktop without a Icon= line or gnome-lauch-box will shock on it :)
[05:25] <seb128> sivang: gpdf too .. 
[05:25] <jdub> martink: so how did evince dodge the font problem? does it cheat and not use pango, or...?
[05:26] <sivang> seb128: evince ru-lez, right? ;-)
[05:26] <martink> jdub, cheat and not use gnome-print. Of course, suddenly lots of pdfs appear that look better in gpdf than in xpdf
[05:26] <martink> jdub, it uses the same renderer as xpdf (and kpdf 3.4)
[05:26] <jdub> martink: aaahhhh
[05:27] <lamont> Warning:Outdated PO file: debian/po/ca.po, running
[05:27] <lamont>   debconf-updatepo --podir=debian/po 
[05:28] <lamont> speaking of lunch.. I should eat
[05:30] <ogra> hmm, what is gnome-launch-box supposed to do ? it dies with a Floating point exception here (amd64)
[05:30] <sivang> ogra: it just hanged my whole session, had to restart x
[05:30] <Nafallo> ogra: thanx for the wikipage on MOTUs :-).
[05:30] <ogra> :)
[05:30] <sivang> looks to me like a big drawing of a mouse
[05:31] <ogra> Nafallo: go ahead, become a MOTU and gain fame and recpect :)
[05:33] <ogra> hmm, why is gnome-btdownloadgui still not in universe ?
[05:40] <srbaker> is there a tool available in ubuntu that allows one to easily change wireless networks?
[05:40] <srbaker> i want a gui way to switch network configs
[05:41] <sivang> srbaker: did you try network-admin?
[05:41] <HrdwrBoB> sivang: network-admin does not allow that
[05:41] <srbaker> sivang, no.  i thought there was a panel app for this.
[05:41] <sivang> HrdwrBoB: oh, well, I know garnacho was working on something like this, maybe it for after 2.10..
[05:42] <HrdwrBoB> netapplet does
[05:42] <srbaker> i can't find netapplet
[05:43] <HrdwrBoB> it's in hoary, called 'netapplet'
[05:43] <srbaker> oh.  i'm on warty
[05:45] <srbaker> this is my lappy, i'd rather not have to do instability
[05:47] <Nafallo> ati doesn't like me :-P
[05:47] <ogra> Nafallo: but your money :-P
[05:48] <srbaker> can someone tell me what the significance of version numbers is?
[05:48] <srbaker> 4.10, 5.04 ?
[05:48] <srbaker> that's just *WEIRD*
[05:48] <tseng> srbaker: month.day
[05:48] <srbaker> ahh
[05:48] <lamont> srbaker: year.month
[05:48] <ogra> year.month
[05:48] <tseng> yeah, that.
[05:48] <srbaker> that looks better
[05:49] <Nafallo> ogra: ;-)
[05:50] <Nafallo> ogra: if the damn card wasn't inside my lappy I would change to something that supports DRI ;-).
[06:07] <Riddell> lamont: could you tell the buildd's to try again with kdeaddons, kdeedu and kdewebdev
[06:07] <lamont> yet again?
[06:08] <lamont> what kind of broken build-deps are you using??? :-)
[06:09] <wasabi> very interesting. I found why my initrd was broken...  it seems 2.6.10 tries to use initrd-kver.gz, while 2.6.9 tries to use initrd.img-kver
[06:09] <wasabi> the .gz one isn't working
[06:13] <HrdwrBoB> I had to build my own initrd for the 3ware card, that was fun
[06:14] <wasabi> update-initrd kver does it.
[06:14] <wasabi> after you add the module to /etc/modules, it seems
[06:14] <wasabi> so, that's not that hard.
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> yeah but 
[06:16] <Riddell> lamont: well for example I can see a build log for kdewebdev for ia64 not but not for i386
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> I didn't know that at the time so I extracted the initrd and hacked in my driver and used that :)
[06:16] <lamont> Riddell: I could swear I gave it back.. /me looks
[06:21] <lamont> Riddell: hrmpf... could have sworn I gave that one back...
[06:22] <lamont> anyway, I just gave back a bunch more
[06:22] <lamont> they should start building w/in 5 minutes, etc, etc.
[06:23] <Riddell> thanks
[06:24] <lamont> Riddell: feel free to poke me again in a little bit if they're not built, etc.
[06:28] <daniels> fabbione: pong
[06:30] <azeem> hey gowlin 
[06:30] <gowlin> Hey.
[06:37] <haggai> lamont: thanks
[07:06] <Nafallo> is there a reason not to have memtest86+ availible for amd64?
[07:09] <eruin> has anything happened recently that might break sound in 2.6.8 while it's ok if I run a more recent kernel?
[07:10] <eruin> I can't use 2.6.9+ due to a change in ptrace behaviour that winex/cedega/wine isn't following
[07:15] <srbaker> grrr
[07:15] <srbaker> anyone here have rubygems or rake packages for ubuntu?
[07:16] <Nafallo> memtest86 isn't depending on the kernel AFAIK, but is it depending on architecture? (or atleast, isn't it compatible with amd64)?
[07:17] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[07:18] <HrdwrBoB> it's it's own thing
[07:24] <Nafallo> trying to build it then... :-)
[07:30] <fabbione> daniels: did you test the kernels i prepared for you?
[07:46] <Riddell> how can I tell debuild -S not to ignore my deleted files?  "dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/patches/029-ruby1.8-not-just-ruby.diff"
[07:46] <ogra> jdub: --> 
[07:46] <ogra> GOT IT !!!
[07:46] <jdub> haha
[07:47] <ogra> i'm so happy :-D
[07:49] <Riddell> ogra: what's happened?
[07:50] <ogra> i ripped xscreensavers lock screen code apart......
[07:50] <ogra> glued it together again with xft support and dots instead of the stars :)
[07:51] <ogra> Riddell: the dots were the hard part (wchar_t vs. char while the app uses memcpy for replacing the typed pw)
[07:53] <ogra> Riddell: an early stage: http://www.grawert.net/xss_shot_1.png
[07:54] <HrdwrBoB> wow, it's not hideously ugly
[07:55] <mdz> jdub: 31337\
[07:55] <mdz> jdub: I think the d-i network config is the next thing to tackle
[07:56] <mdz> but I need to talk it over with Kamion when he gets back
[08:01] <mdz> seb128: here?
[08:02] <jdub> mdz: would you like a mail with nitpicky stuff about it?
[08:02] <mdz> jdub: my current idea is that it should try pretty hard to configure _one_ network interface by brute force without asking anything
[08:02] <mdz> jdub: but if it can't, just continue without asking any questions
[08:02] <mdz> this seems like reasonable behaviour for both the live CD and install
[08:02] <jdub> what about the perennial wifi problem?
[08:03] <mdz> sabdfl has always wanted it to try to find an open network first
[08:04] <jdub> so if wifi's the primary interface, try open, then ask for details?
[08:04] <mdz> try open, then give up if it doesn't work
[08:04] <mdz> and let them configure it with netapplet
[08:06] <mdz> jdub: the server install, though, should fall back to interactive static config, I'd say
[08:06] <Nafallo> ogra_: damn, that looks great :-).
[08:06] <jdub> mdz: yeah
[08:06] <HrdwrBoB> oh, btw, my system starts 
[08:06] <HrdwrBoB> pcmcia wayyy after networking
[08:07] <mdz> there's a bug open about that
[08:07] <ogra> Nafallo: yeah, thanks, i'm quite proud of it :)
[08:07] <mdz> but no one has had the combination of pcmcia networking and motivation to fix it
[08:07] <HrdwrBoB> I just don't reboot, keep suspending
[08:08] <mdz> jdub: do you have nitpicks which would still be applicable to that approach?
[08:08] <HrdwrBoB> I'll check it out tomorrow
[08:08] <jdub> mdz: oh, meant a full review
[08:08] <mdz> jdub: oh, live CD usability in general, rather than just the networking?
[08:08] <jdub> yeah
[08:08] <mdz> jdub: msg'd you my todo list
[08:08] <jdub> btw, do you know anything about the framebuffer hang in d-i?
[08:09] <mdz> hang?
[08:09] <ogra> huh ? which arch ?
[08:09] <thully> mdz: I don't know about that, as that would mean - test my ethernet, and if it can't find anything network wouldn't work
[08:09] <thully> correct? or would it try wi-fi first
[08:09] <jdub> waiting for /proc/fb/0 or whatever... tick tick...
[08:09] <jdub> much shorter now, but still apparent
[08:09] <mdz> thully: it would try each interface
[08:09] <mdz> jdub: that's udev sucking
[08:10] <mdz> jdub: it's just hot-plugged a few hundred devices and is still catching up
[08:10] <Nafallo> ethernet should be something like ifplugd IMHO :-).
[08:10] <jdub> mdz: boh
[08:11] <mdz> jdub: that's a general d-i thing, of course, not part of my live CD todo
[08:11] <jdub> yeah
[08:11] <mdz> but I think a strategically-placed udevstart would clean it right up
[08:11] <wasabi_> ifplugd, or something like it, can be used to bring stuff up and down, sure.... but to actually add the devices to interfaces...
[08:11] <jdub> can we make udev do fb earlier?
[08:11] <jdub> yeah
[08:11] <mdz> udevstart walks /sys and creates the device nodes synchronously
[08:12] <thully> the one big issue with current network setup is that if you want an interface to DHCP on boot, it will stall bootup until it finds a network or times out
[08:13] <wasabi_> seems to me network startup/setup should be stuffed into the hotplug/udev routine
[08:14] <Nafallo> or at school when I can't find an AP.
[08:14] <jdub> NM will do this
[08:14] <mdz> wasabi_: please file a bug about that initrd problem if there isn't one already
[08:14] <mdz> wasabi_: there is at least one bug open where mkintird isn't loading the right drivers anymore
[08:15] <wasabi_> will do
[08:15] <mdz> wasabi_: that filename explanation sounds odd to me; the initrd has never been named .gz as far as i know
[08:16] <mdz> the name is determined by kernel-package, which hasn't changed in some time
[08:16] <wasabi_> wasabi@kyoto:/etc/hal/device.d $ ls /boot/initrd*
[08:16] <wasabi_> /boot/initrd-2.6.10-2-k7.gz  /boot/initrd.img-2.6.10-2-k7
[08:16] <mdz> jdub: did you notice the pretty background title? ;-)
[08:16] <jdub> mdz: ...
[08:16] <mdz> wasabi_: one of those came from the kernel package installation; the .gz must have come from someplace else
[08:17] <jdub> mdz: hold on ;)
[08:17] <wasabi_> mdz, actually, I deleted them both, and rerun update-initrd and they both came back
[08:17] <mdz> wasabi_: what is update-initrd?
[08:17] <wasabi_> ... beats me.
[08:17] <mdz> that is not an Ubuntu tool
[08:17] <wasabi_> haha
[08:17] <wasabi_> I thought it was. ;)
[08:18] <wasabi_> i used it to add the 3ware drivers to my initrd.
[08:18] <wasabi_> wasabi@kyoto:/etc/hal/device.d $ dpkg -S /usr/sbin/update-initrd
[08:18] <wasabi_> discover1: /usr/sbin/update-initrd
[08:18] <wasabi_> ahh I see what's going on
[08:19] <wasabi_> the kernel packages have the non-.gz one... update-initrd makes a .gz one.
[08:19] <wasabi_> update-initrd is just confusing because it's present.
[08:20] <wasabi_> update-initrd actually builds an initrd for the specified kernel, copying all the scsi/ide modules into it. I had *thought* that linux-image ran it in postinst... I just had assusmed, hadn't looked at it.
[08:24] <mdz> update-initrd needs to go
[08:24] <mdz> the tool used by the kernel packages is mkinitrd
[08:25] <wasabi_> ahh.
[08:26] <ogra> mdz: discover neeeds to go at all....
[08:26] <mdz> ogra: hopefully for hoary+1
[08:26] <mdz> xserver-xorg still needs it
[08:26] <ogra> yup
[08:27] <HostingGeek> hmm flink is no where near as good as "Mail Notefaction"
[08:27] <wasabi_> I had always fancied the idea of building an initrd in a postinst script. Leaves open the possibility for third party storage drivers to be included.
[08:28] <ogra> btw, who is writing the dbus frontend for evoluitions mail notification ?
[08:28] <mdz> update-mkinitrd gone
[08:28] <ogra> :)
[08:30] <HostingGeek> *Mail notification
[08:30] <HostingGeek> why doesn't Mail notification take over the mail applet
[08:30] <HostingGeek> well it not a applet even
[08:31] <srbaker> is jakarta ant in warty multiverse?
[08:33] <mdz> srbaker:        ant |    1.6.2-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/multiverse Sources
[08:33] <mdz> srbaker: seems to FTBFS
[08:33] <srbaker> suck
[08:33] <mdz> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ant/1.6.2-2/
[08:34] <mdz> build-depends on a proprietary jdk, it seems
[08:35] <ogra> srbaker: become a MOTU and change it ;)
[08:35] <srbaker> ogra: i have to get an apartment first.
[08:36] <ogra> srbaker: as a MOTU you dont need an appatment, you own the whole universe ;-P
[08:36] <srbaker> ogra: i need an apartment to have somewhere to work from
[08:37] <ogra> srbaker: just kidding... :)
[08:37] <jdub> mdz: so what's this background thing you mention?
[08:38] <mdz> jdub: in the upper-left corner of the screen during d-i
[08:38] <jdub> oh
[08:40] <jdub> mdz: haha. "oh."
[08:41] <ogra> hmm, only 6.8K from cdimage.ubuntu.com ..... grr
[08:41] <mdz> jdub: I already know how to suppress the hostname prompt, but it's so convenient for me when debugging
[08:41] <mdz> it stops at just the right time
[08:42] <jdub> hrh
[08:46] <mdz> just added code to fix up the session based on whether the system is a laptop or not
[08:47] <mdz> though it didn't work
[08:47] <mdz> oh, probably /proc wasn't mounted at the time
[08:56] <eruin> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5582 <--- I need sata drivers in my initrd :-)
[09:09] <ajmitch> morning
[09:28] <mxpxpod> what do I do if the MD5 sum on the source package list for universe on powerpc is incorrect?
[09:29] <Riddell> lamont: kdewebdev et al have now compiled for all platforms but if you try to install it you get errors saying the .deb is 404
[09:30] <lamont> when does the log say that it finished building>?
[09:30] <Riddell> lamont: 20050122-1719-i386-successful 
[09:30] <Riddell> Finished at 20050122-1740
[09:30] <lamont> that's the start time...
[09:31] <lamont> very last line of the log has the ending time... /me looks
[09:31] <lamont> ah, ok.
[09:31] <abelli> lamont: what about OOo2?
[09:31] <lamont> and that's 3 hours ago, so....
[09:31] <lamont> abelli: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/
[09:32] <ogra> lamont, could you have a look at the md5 sum thing ? i get the same error like mxpxpod here
[09:34] <lamont> Riddell: Jan 22 17:45:03 buildd-mail: kdewebdev has been installed; removing from upload dir:
[09:34] <lamont> out of my hands
[09:34] <lamont> ogra: what md5 thing?
[09:34] <abelli> lamont: thank you
[09:34] <ogra> lamont: md5sum doesnt match error for hoary ppc universe PAckages.gz
[09:35] <ogra> looks like a sever side prob....
[09:37] <Riddell> lamont: so who's hands is it in?
[09:37] <lamont> Riddell: the archive..  just a sec
[09:39] <lamont> Riddell: EW!  they're in the master, but haven't made it to archive.ubuntu.com
[09:39] <lamont> elmo?
[09:41] <lamont> ogra: it does appear that you may be on to something...
[09:41] <ogra> tell me if i can collect any info here...
[09:42] <lamont> ogra: nothing not more easily done on the archive machines.
[09:42] <lamont> which I don't have logins on..
[09:42] <lamont> mdz about?
[09:42] <ogra> ah..
[09:42] <ajmitch> yay, I finally have a working hoary chroot on sid to build a kernel in
[09:48] <mxpxpod> ogra: so, what do I do?
[09:48] <ogra> mxpxpod: we wait for elmo....
[09:49] <ogra> or mdz ?
[09:49] <mxpxpod> :(
[09:53] <jbailey> Hmm.  Bugzilla tells me I need to enter a component, and there isn't a place to do so...
[09:55] <Treenaks> jbailey: ubuntu bugzilla?
[09:55] <jbailey> seb128: I'm trying to file that bug, and pan doesn't show up in the drop box. =)  
[09:55] <jbailey> Treenaks: Yeah.
[09:55] <Treenaks> jbailey: hm
[09:56] <seb128> jbailey: use UNKNOWN as component, assign the bug to me, and ask a pan component to jdub/mdz :)
[09:57] <jbailey> What email are you using on here?  It doesn't know sebastien.bacher@ubuntu.com
[09:57] <seb128> jbailey: just put seb in the field :p
[09:58] <seb128> jbailey: you'll probably get a list, you can also use seb128 which will work directly :)
[09:58] <netdur> I installed gnome-core-devel, gnome-devel and libgnomeui* packages, but gcc still can't find "gnome.h" header files!
[09:58] <jbailey> Ooo, fancy.
[09:58] <seb128> (I'm using seb128@ubuntu.com)
[09:58] <sivang> mdz: ping
[09:58] <crimsun> netdur: libgnomeui-dev
[09:58] <seb128> netdur: seems to be a old GNOME 1 stuff
[09:59] <jbailey> seb128: w00t, done. ;)
[09:59] <netdur> installed "/usr/include/libgnomeui-2.0/gnome.h"
[09:59] <netdur> gcc can't find it
[09:59] <seb128> that's the GNOME2 version
[09:59] <seb128> what are you trying to build ?
[10:00] <martink> netdur, do you use pkg-config correctly?
[10:01] <netdur> gcc 'pkg-config --cflags --libs libgnomeui-2.0' test.c
[10:01] <seb128> and what's the error ?
[10:02] <sivang> mdz: livecd doc is ready, we would like thought to know where does apt-get source debian-installer can take us ;-) new levels of customization?
[10:02] <netdur> something like... gnome.h no such as file or directory
[10:02] <seb128> what include are you using ?
[10:03] <netdur> #include "gnome.h"

[10:03] <seb128> no "gnome.h"
 for the system stuff
[10:04] <netdur> wow, I feel so stupid
[10:04] <netdur> I know it, but made the mistake
[10:05] <eruin> any of you have an idea of what might cause sound to come out corrupt on 2.6.8 while working fine on 2.6.9+ on the same hoary install?
[10:06] <crimsun> emu10k1?
[10:06] <eruin> only started happening a few days ago
[10:06] <crimsun> oh, it worked before?
[10:06] <eruin> yeah
[10:06] <eruin> that's what's having my head in a spin
[10:06] <crimsun> I only know of the <<2.6.9 and emu10k1 issue
[10:07] <eruin> hehe, I use viarhine ;)
[10:07] <netdur> thanks
[10:08] <sivang> netdur: you're trying to build gnome?
[10:08] <Riddell> lamont: count you put amarok 1:1.2beta3-0ubuntu1 back into the buildds?
[10:10] <netdur> no, I try to convert my gtk+ app to gnome app
[10:10] <netdur> anyway, I changed "" to <> but got the same error!
[10:12] <sivang> netdur: btw, if you want a really good channel for gnome developemnt, there's no place like home ;-) == gimp net's very own, gnome-love
[10:15] <netdur> at first I though it ubuntu problem, now in my hand I handle "the official gnome 2 developer's guide"... not that good :\
[10:23] <sivang> netdur: what application do you have there?
[10:27] <netdur> rss reader
[10:28] <netdur> I don't like how blam and liferea manage rss fees! email way!!!
[10:28] <netdur> feed*
[10:28] <lamont> mni
[10:32] <lamont> Riddell: so  libkjsembed-dev will magically be there this time?
[10:34] <sivang> lamont: what's up with the archive again? 21.7kB/s ?
[10:34] <Riddell> lamont: amarok?  that was waiting for libtunepimp2
[10:34] <lamont> auckland is having a very bad day.
[10:34] <lamont> ia64 was waiting for libkjsembed-dev
[10:34] <sivang> ergh
[10:35] <lamont> Riddell: have I mentioned how wrong virtual packages in build-deps are?
[10:36] <Riddell> lamont: ok, don't do amarok until I've sorted kdebindings then
[10:38] <lamont> 3. Virtual packages in Build-Depends. If you use a virtual package in your build depends (and thereby leave it up to the buildd to pick one for you, maybe even the right one...), and said package is not in the archive yet, then you'll get dep-waited on the virtual package name. And it won't ever be cleared until someone uploads a package with that name, or you get lamont to clear it. Please don't build-depend on virtual packages.
[10:39] <crimsun> 3a. Always bug lamont.
[10:39] <lamont> crimsun: and he'll give you a pointer to the logs/lists.
[10:40] <crimsun> lamont: stuffed. :/
[10:40] <lamont> 3b. tell lamont what you actually want done (clear the dep-wait, give it back, etc)
[10:57] <lamont> Updating mozilla-firefox chrome registry...E: Registration process existed with status: 1
[10:57] <lamont> E: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/extensions/installed-extensions.txt still present. Registration might have gone wrong.
[10:57] <lamont> mv: cannot stat `/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/defaults.ini': No such file or directory
[10:57] <lamont> thom: you around?
[10:58] <mdz> lamont: here now
[10:58] <mdz> sivang: pong
[10:59] <mdz> sivang: apt-get source debian-installer is not relevant to live CD customization, or development at this point
[11:00] <lamont> mdz: auckland was struggling, appears to be happier now
[11:00] <mdz> I couldn't have done anything about that anyway :-)
[11:01] <mxpxpod> mdz: do you think you could redo the md5 sums on the powerpc universal packages files?
[11:01] <lamont> mdz: me neither...  I was looking to fob the problem off on you... :-)
[11:02] <mdz> mxpxpod: no, I can't.  why do you think they are incorrect?
[11:02] <mxpxpod> mdz: because I'm getting an error
[11:02] <ogra> mdz: me too
[11:03] <mdz> someone needs to be a little bit more specific
[11:03] <ogra> hoary ppc universe Packages.gz ... md5sum mistmatch
[11:03] <mxpxpod> sorry, I was waiting to get the error again
[11:03] <ogra> thats the error
[11:03] <mxpxpod> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/universe/binary-powerpc/Packages.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[11:03] <lamont> mdz: it looked like auckland had paused mid-mirror, or the script died
[11:04] <mdz> elmo: ?
[11:04] <lamont> the ppc error was one thing, other packages that were 3 hours old hadn't shown up yet (but are there now)
[11:04] <mdz> I'm getting awful transfer rates to archive.u.c again
[11:04] <lamont> mdz: it could be that if we upload something, then it
[11:04] <lamont> will just regen the ppc file for them..
[11:05] <mdz> yeah, I'm getting the error as well
[11:05] <mdz> has anyone sent email to elmo?
[11:10] <sivang> mdz: ok then, off to remove it from the doc ;-)
[11:11] <dholbach> re
[11:11] <mdz> sivang: I just edited it
[11:11] <mdz> sivang: I moved that part to the bottom as "additional information", because it is confusing to have it at the top (it looks like the start of the instructions)
[11:15] <sivang> mdz: ah ok, you're fast like lightning...it's clear now. thanks.
[11:16] <sivang> mdz: btw, booted lastnight's live image, works fine, locale working, no sound , usb not tested yet.
[11:16] <mdz> sivang: why do you say that debconf-utils is required?
[11:17] <sivang> mdz: hrm, this was jinty's perliminary remarks, either way it's already installed on hoary
[11:17] <sivang> mdz: should it be remove also?
[11:19] <mdz> fixed
[11:22] <sivang> mdz: k, cool.
[11:23] <mdz> straw poll: for a small package containing miscellaneous Ubuntu-specific utilities, "ubuntu-tools" or "ubuntu-utils"?
[11:24] <tseng> utils, after debian-utils
[11:24] <dholbach> utils :-)
[11:24] <mxpxpod> tools
[11:24] <mxpxpod> :)
[11:24] <dholbach> this is the current state on my box:
[11:24] <dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ dpkg -l | grep utils | wc -l
[11:24] <dholbach> 32
[11:24] <dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ dpkg -l | grep tools | wc -l
[11:24] <dholbach> 30
[11:24] <dholbach> ;-)
[11:25] <lamont> utils
[11:25] <ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ dpkg -l | grep utils | wc -l
[11:25] <ogra> 24
[11:25] <ogra> ogra@honk:~ $  dpkg -l | grep tools | wc -l
[11:25] <ogra> 28
[11:25] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp]  apt-cache -n search tools |wc -l
[11:25] <mdz> 188
[11:25] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp]  apt-cache -n search utils |wc -l
[11:25] <mdz> 195
[11:25] <mdz> a dead heat
[11:25] <sivang> mdz: utils
[11:25] <jdz_> utils! :D
[11:26] <dholbach> ogra: what did you do? your statistic is all wrong? ;-p
[11:26] <mdz> I was leaning toward 'tools'
[11:26] <sivang> mdz: then tools, you decided for it at the end no? ;-)
[11:26] <mdz> because it's the same length, and is an actual word, rather than an abbreviation
[11:26] <mxpxpod> dholbach: he has part of his search messed up because of screwed up md5 sums
[11:26] <jdz_> mdz: you said yourself, "Ubuntu-specific utilities" :)
[11:27] <ogra> i rely on my system...its almost always right :) tools > utils
[11:27] <ogra> mxpxpod: i'm currently not on ppc ;)
[11:27] <mxpxpod> ogra: oh, nevermind that, dholbach :)
[11:27] <mdz> jdz_: yes, but ubuntu-utilities is long and awkward to type :-)
[11:28] <lamont> mdz: too many u's.
[11:28] <mxpxpod> ogra: hopefully this little md5 issue will be fixed soon
[11:28] <jdz_> mdz: of course, but utils is shorter while retaining the intended meaning!
[11:28] <dholbach> what will those "utools" be for?
[11:28] <mdz> jdz_: "utils" is a technical abbreviation which is common in Unix and almost nowhere else
[11:28] <ogra> mxpxpod: as soon as elmo fixes it...
[11:29] <mdz> "tools" has a very similar meaning, but is equally meaningful in a less specialized context
[11:29] <mxpxpod> ogra: as soon as he wakes up...
[11:29] <mdz> mxpxpod: it is 2230 in elmo-land
[11:29] <mxpxpod> mdz: ah, ok
[11:29] <mxpxpod> my bad
[11:29] <ogra> mxpxpod: he probably has real world probs to solve
[11:30] <dholbach> mdz: what will those tools/utils be for?
[11:30] <ogra> finally the livecds have finished downloading...
[11:32] <mdz> dholbach: just some simple informational scripts at the moment
[11:34] <dholbach> mdz: a tool is something, i'd expect to do some clever, but small amount of work for me, utils are things that do stuff in the background... but i won't bitch... just go ahead ;-)
[11:36] <lifeless> micro-tools, love it
[11:36] <mdz> dholbach: the first example is that I wanted to provide a simple tool to determine whether the system is running an official Ubuntu kernel, and show the version number
[11:37] <mdz> it is currently confusing, because there are kernels from different sources, and they have both a kernel release number and a package version number (which are similar in syntax, but distinct)
[11:37] <mdz> mizar:[.../canonical/ubuntu-tools-0.1]  ./ubuntu-kernel-version
[11:37] <mdz> This system appears to be running an Ubuntu packaged Linux kernel
[11:37] <mdz> linux-image-2.6.10-2-k7 version 2.6.10-10
[11:37] <lifeless> mdz: so how, check the md5sum ?
[11:38] <mdz> lifeless: it guesses
[11:38] <mdz> there's no way to tell authoritatively where the kernel in memory came from
[11:38] <mdz> if there is, I'd like to hear about it
[11:39] <lifeless> mmm, nice problem.
[11:39] <ogra> mdz: probably through the build time ?
[11:39] <mdz> it would be handy if the boot loader would give us an md5 or something
[11:40] <mdz> ogra: that would be a good additional check, hmm
[11:40] <mdz> would need to extract the string from the on-disk image
[11:41] <mdz> mizar:[~]  strings /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-2-k7 | grep "^2.6.10-2-k7 (.*) #[0-9] "
[11:41] <mdz> 2.6.10-2-k7 (buildd@rockhopper) #1 Wed Jan 19 17:18:18 UTC 2005
[11:41] <ogra> mdz: i think the build machine hostname is in there too
[11:41] <lifeless> what I was thinking was go module-dir -> dpkg for the package name, if thats missing is not official, then -> the image matching that module dir according to dpkg, and check the image md5sum
[11:41] <mdz> lifeless: module-dir is the same as version number
[11:42] <mdz> so what I currently do is take the version number, look for a package, and do some sanity checks
[11:42] <mdz> I'm adding ogra's suggestion as an additional one
[11:42] <dholbach> mdz: i guess naming it -tools or -utils is rather inconsiderable, just an expression of the current pent-up emotions, so i won't stop you there, i'll rather give my blessing :-)
[11:42] <mdz> that should catch cases where the kernel has been upgraded, but the system hasn't been rebooted yet, also
[11:42] <mdz> dholbach: hence the straw poll :-)
[11:42] <lifeless> yeah
[11:42] <dholbach> mdz: ;-)
[11:43] <ogra> mdz: i found dholbach's suggestion "utools" quite nice :)
[11:43] <mdz> 'u' is a bit overloaded
[11:43] <ogra> true....
[11:43] <ogra> but you save a dash
[11:44] <lifeless> tools
[11:44] <lifeless> ;_
[11:44] <lifeless> :)
[11:44] <ogra> hehe
[11:44] <ogra> makes sure utf8 is working.... good idea
[11:44] <mdz> hmm
[11:44] <mdz> mizar:[~]  strings /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-2-k7 | grep "^2.6.10-2-k7 (.*) #[0-9] "
[11:44] <mdz> 2.6.10-2-k7 (buildd@rockhopper) #1 Wed Jan 19 17:18:18 UTC 2005
[11:44] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp]  cat /proc/version
[11:44] <mdz> Linux version 2.6.10-2-k7 (buildd@rockhopper) (gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-6ubuntu1)) #1 Wed Jan 19 17:18:18 UTC 2005
[11:44] <mdz> these are not the same
[11:45] <mdz> how irritating
[11:45] <ogra> uname -a `
[11:45] <ogra> ?
[11:45] <lifeless> its built out
[11:45] <lifeless> you should be able to synthesis it;)
[11:45] <lifeless> (strings for gcc in the image too)
[11:46] <lifeless> hmm, missing :p
[11:47] <lifeless> garh
[11:47] <lifeless> certainly you can reduce proc/version to the version string
[11:49] <mdz> currently, yes
[11:49] <mdz> but the fact that they come from different code means that they won't necessarily always match
[11:50] <lifeless> true
[11:50] <mdz> maybe they'll decide to stick the binutils version number in there too :-P
[11:51] <lifeless> Linux version $ver $gcc $binutils $bz2 $build-uptime $number-of-butterflies $date
[11:52] <mdz> kernel.version = #1 Wed Jan 19 17:18:18 UTC 2005
[11:52] <mdz> that still leaves the user@host bit
[11:52] <mdz> but version + date is damn good