[12:12] <sivang> ogra: knoppix has an ltsp server inbox?
[12:12] <sivang> ogra: that is, in box
[12:12] <ogra> it once had... i hvent seen knoppix since about two years...
[12:22] <dholbach> sleep tight guys - i'm off to bed :-)
[12:23] <sivang> dholbach: night!
[12:23] <dholbach> bye sivang, sleep tight :-)
[12:23] <sivang> yay, gnome-cups-manager identifed my HP printer now! cooool
[12:23] <sivang> dholbach: oviderzane!
[12:24] <sivang> (I probably have MANY mistaked there)
[12:24] <ogra> night daniel
[12:25] <sivang> mdz: ping again, would you like to send me a suggestin script for localizing the livecd? or is it a matter of installing language-support-XX into the cloop compressed img?
[12:26] <sivang> mdz: I want to fill up the localization section also.
[12:26] <dholbach> sivang: wow... if you pronounce "oviderzane" in english, it's nearly right :-)
[12:26] <mdz> sivang: slow down; those packages were not even available until a few days ago
[12:26] <dholbach> sivang: we spell it "auf wiedersehen" in german :-)
[12:28] <sivang> dholbach: this is how i hear it :)
[12:29] <ogra> sivang: learning german ? 
[12:29] <dholbach> sivang: i didnt say it was wrong :-)
[12:31] <sivang> ogra: trying hehe ;-) wish I knew some more..
[12:31] <ogra> ssh ogra@sivang apt-get install language-support-de
[12:31] <ogra> ;)
[12:36] <sivang> dholbach: ok
[12:46] <sivang> ogra: does it habve anyting inside it already?
[12:47] <ogra>  language-support-de ?
[12:47] <ogra> dunno....
[12:47] <sivang> ogra: oh , it has some things in it already :) I am now installing
[12:48] <ogra> sivang: it was a joke ;)
[12:48] <ogra> sivang: i was installing it on you via ssh....
[01:48] <kent> should python-xdg be expected to work? if that python module has support for the new freedesktop menu, then a simply menueditor for gnome should not be so hard to write?
[01:48] <sivang> ogra: take a look at wiki/ServerTeam, would like to hear some thoughts
[01:49] <sivang> (everybody else are also welcome)
[01:49] <jdub> GOOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[01:50] <sivang> jdub: MORNING!
[01:50] <sivang> jdub: wiki/ServerTeam
[01:50] <tseng> lo jdub 
[01:50] <sivang> jdub: what about the pantalones?
[01:51] <jdub> later in the day :)
[01:51] <sivang> jdub: heheh
[01:52] <jdz_> howdy :)
[01:53] <jdub> yo jdz_ 
[03:20] <lexhider> FTBS, can someone please define?
[03:21] <chrisa> Perhaps you mean FTBFS?
[03:22] <lexhider> probably, although the email I'm reading says FTBS, I don't know what either mean.
[03:22] <chrisa> Failed to build from source for one, not sure about the other
[03:23] <lexhider> thanks
[03:25] <lexhider> I'll also add to glossary page on wiki
[03:49] <jdub> whoa
[04:19] <sivang> can someone suggest why I am not able to run g-s-t::users-admin from within my hoary chroot?
[04:24] <sivang> jdub: you have an idea why is needed to do in order to run X/GNOME clients under a chroot?
[04:26] <jdub> a crap load of everything
[04:27] <jdub> you're better off using a debootstrapped chroot than a minimal chroot
[04:27] <jdub> or uml or something
[04:27] <jdub> first problem is that you won't have access to the display
[04:28] <daniels> jdub: well, if you bind-mount $HOME, you get ~/.Xauthority
[04:28] <daniels> (don't forget to bind-mount /tmp/.X11-unix for the transport)
[04:28] <jdub> yeah, but that's just the start ;)
[04:31] <daniels> well, running GNOME can be a pain
[04:32] <daniels> never really did work out how to run multiple GNOME sessions as the same user on the same machine
[04:32] <daniels> (different $DISPLAYs, obviously)
[04:38] <jdz_> oh, thats a big proublem
[04:38] <jdz_> with a 2nd gnome login, most of the applets are dead, genearly looks horable, etc
[04:45] <sivang> eh well, I was not really looking to run the whole session, only some selected apps.
[04:48] <sivang> jdub: ot
[04:48] <sivang> erghh, crappy keyboard.
[04:49] <sivang> jdub , daniels : it's amazing how much I learn that I do not yet know just from you answering my questions :) what is bind-mount? 
[04:50] <sivang> (hmm, maybe mounting my original home folder from the chroot env?...)
[04:50] <jdz_> sivang: mount -o bind /source-location /destination
[04:51] <daniels> sivang: it basically glues two locations together
[04:51] <daniels> sivang: i have /home/daniels/chroot/hoary-newx/home bind-mounted to /home, so it's like an exactly mirror
[04:51] <daniels> sivang: think like a symlink, but works within chroots, etc
[04:52] <sivang> daniels: cool, tnx
[04:53] <sivang> daniels: so then for the duration of the bind mount my original home folder "vanishes" and the chroot one is used instead?
[04:53] <daniels> sivang: yeah
[04:53] <jdz_> They both exist :)
[04:53] <daniels> /home in the chroot looks exactly like your usual /home
[04:54] <daniels> (i assume you mean that the original /home you had in your chroot vanishes)
[04:54] <sivang> yes
[04:54] <jdz_> ah, right
[04:54] <daniels> right
[04:55] <sivang> daniels: so, any breakage I would create in the chroot's home, basically ruins my own home from the main system...
[04:55] <sivang> sorry, s/chroot's home/chroot's user home folder/
[04:56] <daniels> sivang: correct
[04:57] <sivang> daniels: ok, tnx++
[05:04] <sivang> phew, if you forget the bind mount gnome is also non usable on the other login...
[05:17] <wasabi_> There some plan for gcc 4.0 anywhere?
[05:17] <wasabi_> =)
[05:18] <sivang> wasabi_: shush, don't let fabbione here you, he may be already awake...;-)
[05:18] <wasabi_> haha
[05:18] <wasabi_> I just actually noticed debian has it in experimental.
[05:19] <sivang> wasabi_: that's like extra breakage sources for sid right? (it's not somthing more unstable then sid IIRC)
[05:20] <wasabi_> I bet it's in there because of sarge.
[05:22] <wasabi_> woh. it moved.
[05:34] <sivang> when I have something like that in the debian/rulez, does that mean it uses cdbs?
[05:34] <sivang> include /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/uploaders.mk
[05:35] <sivang> jdub: this is from the g-s-t source pkg.
[05:36] <ajmitch> it looks similar to cdbs
[05:36] <ajmitch> but is gnome-pkg-tools
[05:37] <wasabi_> That's the peice of the gnome packages that adds the gnome package maintainers to it.
[05:37] <wasabi_> It's an odd setup... Debian's pkg-gnome group.
[05:37] <wasabi_> Packages have a control.in, with @GNOME_UPLOADERS@ in it.
[05:37] <wasabi_> Each member of the pkg-gnome team has their name/email stuck in there.
[05:38] <sivang> wierd
[05:38] <sivang> wierd
[05:38] <wasabi_> well, it works. It's so each member of the team can upload, but each person can remain the maintainer of their own packages.
[05:38] <sivang> wasabi_: the control.in is supposed to be als oin that package? I'll look there..
[05:39] <wasabi_> The control.in is in the package that uses gnome-pkg-tools.
[05:39] <sivang> clean::	
[05:39] <sivang> 	sed "s/@GNOME_TEAM@/$(uploaders)/" \
[05:39] <sivang> 	debian/control.in > debian/control
[05:40] <sivang> yep
[05:40] <sivang> boy, emacs has such a nice coloring for make files..
[05:41] <sivang> wasabi_: basically, all those include file and cdbs's are make file classes right? inherent feature of the make lanugage.
[05:42] <wasabi_> yeah
[05:42] <sivang> wasabi_: then it's really all sums up to what mdz/jdub said, if you start with reading the make manual, everything will look easier after..;-)
[05:42] <sivang> (you have to finish reading it ofcourse)
[05:44] <wasabi_> i never read the thing
[05:44] <wasabi_> i still barely grasp it
[05:45] <sivang> wasabi_: so how do you manage to munge your daily dose of pkgs?
[05:46] <sivang> cdbs?
[05:46] <wasabi_> eh?
[05:46] <wasabi_> sometimes.
[05:46] <wasabi_> cdbs if possible.
[05:46] <sivang> wasabi_: and on the other times? ;)
[05:46] <wasabi_> For Eclipse, cdbs was impossible.
[05:46] <wasabi_> So I learned make.
[05:46] <wasabi_> actually basic make is really easy.
[05:47] <wasabi_> learning how to set up your rules to actually make a package, and understanding debhelper, is a bit harder.
[05:49] <sivang> I see.
[05:52] <sivang> wasabi_: so , a quick question, I have a pacakge, all set and building/installing ok, I just want it to install another file in a specific location, how do I add this to the rules/dh_* commands?
[05:52] <wasabi_> just copy it into the temp install directory before you run dh_builddeb
[05:52] <wasabi_> probably using "install"
[05:53] <sivang> ok, I'll try that, tnx.
[07:18] <HostingGeek> hey my friend just told me a cool feature redhat has and that is /sbin/services is linked to /etc/init.d/
[07:18] <HostingGeek> so you do services <app> restart...
[07:19] <HostingGeek> it makes it a lot easier than typing out /etc/init.d/
[07:19] <HostingGeek> even thought there is tab completion
[07:19] <HostingGeek> but i know why redhat did it because they add rc.d
[07:25] <HostingGeek> MonoDevelop is broken is this known???
[07:26] <HostingGeek> anyone?
[07:28] <daniels> HostingGeek: a) these things are still utterly inappropriate for #ubuntu-devel, b) invoke-rc.d, c) if it's broken, file a bug, don't harass people on irc
[07:28] <daniels> we've asked you before repeatedly not to misuse our development channel and make it useless for us
[07:28] <HostingGeek> daniels: /msg
[07:34] <HostingGeek> daniels: did you ignore me?? why arnt you answer me
[07:39] <crimsun> HostingGeek: your questions tend to be more suitable for #ubuntu (just an observation)
[07:39] <HostingGeek> --- Cannot join #ubuntu (You are banned).
[07:39] <HostingGeek> crimsun: and this is why i keep on msg daniels but he seemed to ignore me
[07:42] <daniels> HostingGeek: i don't sit at the computer every waking hour; i was trying to print something
[07:59] <fabbione> hey daniels.. still around?
[08:00] <daniels> hey papa
[08:00] <daniels> let me test the drm stuff for you
[08:00] <fabbione> what's up kid :-)
[08:00] <daniels> nommuch man
[08:00] <fabbione> no rush..
[08:00] <daniels> just getting read to head out and see a movie
[08:00] <fabbione> i just woke up
[08:01] <fabbione> eheh cool.. what movie?
[08:01] <daniels> ah cool :)
[08:01] <daniels> blues brothers, actually
[08:01] <fabbione> ehhe
[08:01] <daniels> they have the moonlight cinema in this massive park ... portable screen, starts at sunset.
[08:01] <daniels> ok, wget'ing now
[08:01] <fabbione> oh that's nice...
[08:01] <fabbione> daniels: no rush.. i just need to know within 24hours or so
[08:02] <fabbione> today is dedicated to the house ;)
[08:02] <fabbione> we have almost done with the big stuff in the livingroom
[08:02] <fabbione> it's only left to paint the walls and do the small details
[08:02] <daniels> oh, nice!
[08:02] <daniels> that's awesome
[08:02] <fabbione> i still have the glassfilt hitching my skin :-)))
[08:02] <daniels> how long will the walls take?
[08:03] <fabbione> daniels: 3/4 days
[08:03] <fabbione> + another 2/3 days for details
[08:03] <fabbione> the real problems are the waiting time for stuff to dry
[08:03] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[08:03] <fabbione> otherwise it wouldn't take THAT long
[08:03] <daniels> yeah
[08:03] <fabbione> hi ajmitch 
[08:03] <ajmitch> just testing out selinux kernel stuff now
[08:03] <daniels> ah, that's good then :)
[08:03] <daniels> nice work dude
[08:03] <fabbione> thanks :-)
[08:03] <fabbione> daniels: i will put up pics when it's done
[08:04] <ajmitch> after a number of build failures :)
[08:04] <fabbione> you are one of the few that can see the diff ;)
[08:04] <daniels> heh heh
[08:04] <fabbione> Total 4570 package(s)
[08:04] <fabbione> wow.. i already munged 50% of universe
[08:04] <fabbione> but there were tons of FTBFS due to missing-deps
[08:06] <ajmitch> alright, seeing plenty of audit messages related to tmpfs.. a good sign, I hope
[08:07] <daniels> fabbione: hoy crap, that's insane
[08:07] <fabbione> why?
[08:08] <daniels> fabbione: i thought about cleaning up my room, but then xorg and l-r-m would lose a week of activity
[08:08] <fabbione> do you realize that 100% of the big packages are in main?
[08:08] <daniels> fabbione: the 50% of universe
[08:08] <daniels> mmm, I suppose
[08:08] <daniels> but there are still like a few gcc versions
[08:08] <fabbione> daniels: only 2..
[08:08] <fabbione> 2.95 and 3.2
[08:08] <fabbione> that for sure are smaller than 3.3 (6 hours to build)
[08:08] <daniels> not as bad as I thought then
[08:08] <daniels> heh :)
[08:09] <fabbione> probably... kernel-image- for sparc
[08:09] <fabbione> that is relatively big...
[08:09] <fabbione> but there is not much left really
[08:09] <daniels> cool, that rocks
[08:09] <daniels> you get the fun of qt/kde as well
[08:09] <daniels> ah no wait, qt's in main
[08:10] <fabbione> and already built :-)
[08:10] <fabbione> i know there is a circular build-dep somewhere in kde iirc
[08:10] <fabbione> but that needs to be solved manually
[08:10] <fabbione> = at the really end
[08:11] <daniels> heh
[08:12] <fabbione> i need to remember to ask elmo/lamont to publish source-deps
[08:12] <fabbione> there is one for debian, but i don't think we have one for us
[08:15] <daniels> fabbione: no ABI change for radeon
[08:18] <fabbione> cool, does it actually work?
[08:19] <daniels> yeah :)
[08:19] <fabbione> neat
[08:21] <zenrox> what about my vid card
[08:21] <zenrox> lol
[08:28] <daniels> fabbione: and i915 is fine too
[08:28] <daniels> fabbione: thanks a heap
[08:28] <fabbione> daniels: cool, have fun
[08:59] <dholbach> hai
[10:30] <HostingGeek> daniels: can gambas-gtk move into ubuntu already
[10:30] <crimsun> HostingGeek: he's away at a movie.
[10:30] <HostingGeek> why the hell will anyone want to be stuck with Qt?
[10:30] <HostingGeek> crimsun: ok but can we still move it into universe?
[10:31] <crimsun> HostingGeek: I don't even see a Debianized GTK portion
[10:32] <HostingGeek> weirod
[10:32] <HostingGeek> there site says it in debian
[10:32] <crimsun> where?
[10:32] <crimsun> `apt-cache search gambas|grep gtk' returns nothing.
[10:33] <crimsun> note that gambas is already in hoary/universe
[10:34] <HostingGeek> look at http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ > Distros & OS
[10:34] <HostingGeek> ok
[10:34] <HostingGeek> as linex.org is the maintainer for debian
[10:35] <HostingGeek> and it is in linex.org 's rep but not in debian
[10:35] <HostingGeek> for what ever reason can we just build the source packages from linex.org?
[10:35] <crimsun> um, no. We want packages that are held to some QA standard, yanno.
[10:36] <HostingGeek> QA?
[10:36] <crimsun> you're familiar with quality assurance, correct?
[10:37] <HostingGeek> yes
[10:37] <HostingGeek> crimsun: linex.org IS the debian maintainer
[10:38] <HostingGeek> i check it just now
[10:38] <crimsun> who, Jos L. Redrejo Rodrguez <jredrejo@edu.juntaextremadura.net>?
[10:39] <HostingGeek> that linex.org
[10:40] <HostingGeek> crimsun: i know from email linex.org over the nvu package
[10:41] <crimsun> if he's the maintainer, then ask him why there's no gtk package.
[10:41] <crimsun> [in sid] 
[10:42] <HostingGeek> crimsun: well he is away he has no answered my email from a few weeks ago
[10:44] <crimsun> HostingGeek: you could always (re)package it yourself and submit it for MOTU approval. That would speed along the process.
[10:45] <HostingGeek> glade package needs rebuilding
[10:45] <crimsun> It'd be wise to do thorough lintian checks.
[10:45] <HostingGeek> "Couldn't show help file: glade-faq."
[10:45] <crimsun> Are you saying Glade needs to be rebuilt in Hoary?
[10:46] <HostingGeek> yes
[10:47] <HostingGeek> goto glade > faq and you will see that error
[10:47] <crimsun> then file a bug on the appropriate packages.
[10:59] <HostingGeek> how the hell am i ment to file a bug if bugzilla is so slow
[11:00] <HostingGeek> its been 12min and still haven't be able to file it yet
[11:03] <HostingGeek> i have pushed new 8 times in bugzilla its done nothing
[11:03] <HostingGeek> am i doing something wrong?
[11:04] <HostingGeek> *yes* ok it working
[11:14] <dholbach> gambas-1.0-1 seems borked - at least on amd 64
[11:14] <crimsun> dholbach: from hoary/universe?
[11:15] <dholbach> sizeof(CLASS) = 256 !  -  ERROR: #51: Bad archive: invalid argument 
[11:15] <dholbach> crimsun: yes
[11:15] <crimsun> dholbach: not surprising.
[11:22] <dholbach> does "new contact" work for you in evolution?
[11:23] <crimsun> dholbach: yes.
[11:23] <dholbach> hmmmmmmmmmmmm :-/
[11:24] <dholbach> crimsun: i click the button and nothing happens
[11:24] <dholbach> strange
[11:24] <crimsun> 2.1.3.2-0ubuntu3
[11:25] <dholbach> crimsun: yes
[11:25] <crimsun> I'm sorry, I don't know of amd64 issues.
[11:28] <Mithrandir> dholbach: hm?  evo broken on amd64 again?
[11:30] <dholbach> Mithrandir: not sure
[11:30] <dholbach> Mithrandir: doesnt have to be an amd64 issue
[11:30] <dholbach> oh... i see: something f.cked up the addressbook: evolution-addressbook-WARNING **: error loading addressbook : e_book_load_uri: no factories available for uri `file:///home/daniel/.evolution/addressbook/local/system'
[11:36] <dholbach> hmm
[11:46] <HostingGeek> hmm WTF why does when connecting to a ftp server open in firefox?
[11:48] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: shy are you asking on a developer channel, instead of a user-support channel?
[11:48] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: because someone banned me from #ubuntu and i am showing them that it is a stupid idea as it will mean i'll use this one instead
[11:49] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: you know it'll just get you banned here /as well/
[11:50] <HostingGeek> Treenaks: well if you don't want me to ask here then you'll have to unban me from #ubuntu and i'll stop asking here
[12:34] <thom> seb128: what's wrong with firefox? (and no, i don't mind)
[12:34] <seb128> thom: bah, you have not add typeaheadfind to the list of extensions in debian/rules so basically the changes are not used :p
[12:35] <seb128> s/add/added/
[12:35] <seb128> thom: BTW chpe has updated the patch (added 2 little change)
[12:36] <seb128> thom: all these change are just here to get a typeaheadfind which doesn't conflict with the firefox find stuff ... but you still need to build typefindahead :)
[12:37] <thom> oh, doh
[12:37] <thom> i can do that now
[12:37] <seb128> bah
[12:37] <thom> or you can
[12:37] <thom> either way
[12:37] <seb128> gnome.org is down 
[12:38] <seb128> I've the changes here, I've built a new package
[12:38] <thom> go for it then
[12:38] <seb128> so if you want I can go ahead with it
[12:38] <seb128> ok
[12:38] <seb128> BTW how do you handle the changes ? you patch directly the sources ?
[12:38] <thom> yeah
[12:39] <seb128> ok
[12:39] <thom> (it's a total pain, but so's trying to maintain a patch system when debin maints don't want it
[12:40] <seb128> right
[01:20] <dholbach> i'll be back later... bye
[01:54] <jdub> seb128: you read gnome-vfs-list?
[01:54] <ogra> morning...
[01:54] <jdub> thom: so with firefox... :o
[01:54] <seb128> jdub: yep, why ?
[01:55] <jdub> thom: what are the chances of getting... pango patches for interesting script (indic, arabic) love; either industrial or the other gtk-like theme (which uses icon themes directly?); gnome native filechooser and printing patches?
[01:55] <jdub> seb128: seen nielsen's patches?
[01:56] <seb128> jdub: yep, waiting for alex's comments since the patch is not trivial :)
[01:56] <jdub> cool
[01:56] <seb128> jdub: make me remember than I've a patch for libsmbclient to upload
[01:56] <jdub> sweet ;)
[01:57] <seb128> (patch from the previous work from nielsen for the smb authentification)
[01:58] <seb128> BTW has somebody tested smb with the current gnomevfs ? the authentification patch is already in and should improve things
[02:00] <jdub> i'll have a play here, kind of a boring network though ;)
[03:14] <thom> jdub: pango patches are in, just need turning on; I'll look at marco's patches for gtk-icon-theme love; firefox has the gnome filechooser dunnit? (don't know about printing, got a url?)
[03:14] <jdub> thom: elite!
[03:14] <jdub> firefox doesn't have the gnome filechooser without the fedora/novell patches
[03:15] <jdub> i think you'll find the printing patches in fedora, too
[03:15] <thom> oh, no, so it doesn't
[03:15] <thom> right, will review those
[03:16] <thom> (i think gtk-icon-theme support is more useful than garret's industrial theme, right?)
[03:17] <jdub> thom: (i was thinking the same thing)
[03:17] <jdub> thom: (but i haven't seen it in action)
[03:27] <ogra> gah....warning: implicit declaration of function `strndup'
[03:27] <ogra> how does one declare a function not implicit ?
[03:28] <azeem> you #include the correct header file
[03:28] <azeem> man strndup should tell you which
[03:29] <thom> ogra: also, strndup isn't portable, it's a gnu extension
[03:30] <azeem> that's what gnulib is for, I guess
[03:30] <ogra> thom: its just for my ubuntu lockscreen hack, i doubt it will get used anywhere else....so nongnu wont be a prob
[03:30] <smurfix> azeem: ? it's in glibc
[03:30] <thom> ah, fair enough
[03:31] <azeem> smurfix: or that
[03:31] <thom> ogra: anyway, string.h and #define _GNU_SOURCE
[03:31] <jbailey> smurfix: Portability, good. =)
[03:31] <smurfix> thom: the other way round, actually ;-)
[03:31] <ogra> great, thanks :-D
[03:32] <azeem> smurfix: it was my understanding that gnulib includes the gnu extensions so you can have them on non-glibc systems
[03:32] <mjg59> Argh.
[03:32] <mjg59> There's no real chance of there being ACPI smart battery support integrated into the kernel before Hoary
[03:33] <mjg59> Which isn't an issue in itself - we can add it with a patch
[03:33] <mjg59> But the smart battery code presents different information in a different place to the control method battery code
[03:33] <thom> jbailey: i'm planning to start scribbling about server team stuff monday or so; today is building furniture day
[03:33] <mjg59> So the battery status app would have to be updated
[03:33] <mjg59> Opinions?
[03:33] <thom> mjg59: "Argh." summed it up quite nicely
[03:33] <smurfix> azeem: only for non-glibc systems; on Linux it doesn' make sense to duplicate what's already in glibc
[03:34] <azeem> smurfix: eh, sure
[03:34] <azeem> thom was talking about portability, though
[03:34] <jbailey> azeem: That's the general idea.  You put in configure hackery so that it uses glibc when possible.
[03:34] <jbailey> thom: a'ight.  It was mostly the, "I'd like to be involved in this, I think I had alot to add"...
[03:35] <mjg59> thom: It should be a simple matter of coding
[03:35] <thom> mjg59: seriously, though, are the benefits of smart battery support worthwhile enough to do this before hoary? 
[03:35] <mjg59> If we do it, Acer owners get battery status. If we don't, they don't.
[03:35] <thom> mjg59: ... the "simple matter of coding" list is getting quite long ;-)
[03:35] <thom> jbailey: nod
[03:36] <mjg59> Ha. No, it's just going to be populating some structs in gnome-battery-applet
[03:36] <jbailey> thom: In which timezone are you?
[03:36] <mjg59> Ooh, rock
[03:36] <thom> jbailey: GMT
[03:36] <mjg59> HAL CVS has ACPI/PMU support
[03:37] <jdub> oooh
[03:37] <mjg59> Shame about the lack of APM, but still
[03:37] <jdub> SHINY!
[03:37] <thom> mjg59: oh, it landed? sweet!
[03:37] <sjoerd> mjg59: no it has not
[03:37] <fabbione> we should rename hoary to hoacpiry
[03:38] <fabbione> we more acpi support than any distro out there
[03:38] <jdub> fabbione: hnoapicoary
[03:38] <fabbione> apic != acpi :)
[03:38] <jdub> but it's the universal solution :)
[03:39] <mjg59> There's also been some progress on the Thinkpad excessive power draw stuff
[03:39] <fabbione> isn't apic = advanced programmable interrupt controller or something like that?
[03:39] <mjg59> fabbione: Yup
[03:40] <mjg59> noapic shouldn't be necessary on post-2.6.8 in general - the kernel no longer turns it on unless the BIOS did
[03:40] <jdub> mjg59: rawk,
[03:40] <jdub> s/,/./
[03:40] <sjoerd> mjg59: apm stuff in hal should be easy though
[03:40] <fabbione> mjg59: oh.. well it's an option we can fry away our configs you know :-)
[03:40] <no0tic> hi
[03:40] <mjg59> sjoerd: Yeah
[03:40] <fabbione> mjg59: anyway.. next kernel new dri no ABI change ;)
[03:40] <mjg59> fabbione: Fucking rock
[03:41] <fabbione> mjg59: it was easy..
[03:41] <fabbione> just a 2 lines change to revert the 4layer memory mm
[03:42] <no0tic> thunderbird italian localization is stuck at version 0.9.99, and won't install with thunderbird 1.0
[03:42] <no0tic> is help needed for translating?
[03:42] <seb128> lamont: here ?
[03:49] <mjg59> thom: We should probably post that PM stuff to -devel and get some feedback
[04:07] <thom> mjg59: indeed
[04:07] <thom> Mithrandir: "gosh"
[04:10] <pitti> Hi abelli!
[04:10] <pitti> abelli: is your kernel happy now?
[04:11] <abelli> actually im on the -2 now..
[04:11] <abelli> ...CIAOOOO pitti
[04:12] <abelli> but it still have some problems with the frame buffer
[04:12] <abelli> the wifi, is ok now
[04:12] <pitti> abelli: me too, but I have no idea how to fix it
[04:12] <abelli> and im "spreading your word"
[04:13] <abelli> ive asked how to do it... to the consolle project... 
[04:13] <pitti> abelli: however, I hope to finish the porting to the current hoary kernel soon
[04:13] <abelli> pitti: i hope someday ill be able to help you... :)
[04:13] <abelli> s/ill/to
[04:15] <mjg59> Argle.
[04:15] <mjg59> So, we want Thinkpads to suspend without consuming large amounts of power, right?
[04:16] <abelli> why not?
[04:16] <abelli> :)
[04:21] <mjg59> Option 1: Fix radeonfb and use it by default on Thinkpads with Radeons
[04:21] <mjg59> (downside: arse to get the backlight back on afterwards)
[04:22] <mjg59> Option 2: Write small module to do Radeon power management
[04:22] <mjg59> (downside: makes it hard for people to use radeonfb)
[04:34] <mjg59> Hrm. I probably need to talk to benh.
[04:39] <daniels> mjg59: i like #2
[04:45] <mjg59> daniels: Ok. Easiest way of doing this is to have a module that binds to the radeon PCI ids and has stub PCI suspend/resume routines to set the device to D3
[04:45] <mjg59> Then we just have to try to reboot it on resume
[04:45] <mjg59> But I need to speak to benh to find out if that's sufficient
[04:48] <daniels> it sounds pretty sensible to me
[04:48] <daniels> but then again, I am not benh, so it may be completely wack :)
[04:48] <daniels> i'll tell you one thing that isn't, though -- bed
[04:53] <dholbach> re
[04:53] <ogra> hi :)
[05:02] <jdub> mjg59: so you reckon i can suspend-to-ram my desktop? :)
[05:02] <mjg59> jdub: It's worth a go
[05:02] <mjg59> Hmm. I should really register for LCA
[05:02] <jdub> what's the manual way of kicking suspend-to-ram?
[05:03] <mjg59> If you don't have a sleep button, then try sudo /etc/acpi/sleep.sh
[05:03] <jdub> ok, will try
[05:03] <no0tic> fglrx keeps breaking resume?
[05:03] <jdub> going to be regardless though
[05:04] <jdub> mjg59: oh, interaction with nvidia driver?
[05:04] <mjg59> Likely to suck
[05:04] <jdub> heh
[05:04] <jdub> here goes
[05:04] <jdub> night
[05:04] <mjg59> no0tic: fglrx stands no real chance whatsoever across suspend/resume
[05:05] <jdub> hrm
[05:05] <jdub> doesn't seem to do anything
[05:05] <mjg59> Anything in demsg?
[05:05] <jdub> nup
[05:06] <jdub> just an old usb disconnect message
[05:06] <mjg59> Interesting.
[05:06] <mjg59> Can you edit /etc/acpi/sleep.sh and add set -x just before it starts running commands?
[05:06] <jdub> oh
[05:06] <jdub> hold on
[05:06] <jdub> heh
[05:06] <jdub> # Uncomment the next line to enable ACPI suspend to RAM
[05:06] <jdub> #ACPI_SLEEP=true
[05:06] <jdub> ^ important point
[05:07] <jdub> night :-)
[05:07] <mjg59> Haha
[05:09] <jdub> didn't work
[05:09] <dholbach> oh this is funny: evolution-data-server talks a bit in dmesg too: evolution-data-[8358]  trap divide error rip:2a9555e6cd rsp:7fbffff340 error:0
[05:09] <mjg59> jdub: Failure mode?
[05:09] <jdub> didn't even get usb key/mouse or network love when it came up
[05:09] <jdub> let alone video
[05:10] <mjg59> Oh, it suspended but didn't resume?
[05:10] <jdub> yeah
[05:10] <mjg59> Right. Hrm.
[05:11] <jdub> (both suspend and hibernate work very nicely in windows, if that's an even remotely useful datapoint)
[05:12] <mjg59> Haha
[05:12] <mjg59> Hibernation ought to work
[05:14] <no0tic> mjg59: hibernation works also here with radeon (acer aspire 1350 series)
[05:14] <no0tic> brb
[05:21] <no0tic> re
[05:21] <no0tic> can fglrx & radeon coexist?
[05:22] <no0tic> can I create 2 different config files? one for fglrx & one for radeon and switch from one to the other restarting X?
[05:27] <lamont> seb128: back on much later today
[05:39] <thom> seb128: do you want to leave firefox till monday and let me do it?
[05:39] <pitti> lamont: Hi! Out of interest, to the buildds already strip?
[05:39] <pitti> lamont: s/to/do/
[05:40] <ogra> pitti... got a sec for PM ?
[05:40] <pitti> ogra: PM?
[05:58] <Mithrandir> rock!  svn seems to be b0rken on amd64.
[05:59] <Mithrandir> at least libapache-mod-svn
[06:49] <seb128> thom: I've it ready to upload here, I just had to go and wanted to run a quick diff with the previous version to be sure 
[07:31] <Riddell> lamont: any idea what the status of kdebindings is on ia64?  there no log and other platforms succeeded an hour ago
[07:33] <azeem> man, you Ubuntu guys are spoilt
[07:34] <ogra> azeem: because we have a lamont and elmo ?
[08:10] <HostingGeek|ZZZ> sry about nick changes just registering a few
[08:21] <mdz> jdub: you have received the title of "all-familiar Ubuntu man"
[08:41] <robertj_> heya all, question: should I file a bug about the 30 boot fsck
[08:42] <robertj_> I mean, it's really no fun for laptops
[08:42] <ogra> robertj_: who reboots his laptop if suspend works ?
[08:43] <robertj_> ogra: well, it's still bad, and mine still does'nt work
[08:43] <robertj_> I thought it did
[08:43] <thom> robertj_: current fsck won't run when you're on battery
[08:43] <thom> so it's not an issue
[08:43] <robertj_> thom: maybe something didn't upgrade right?
[08:43] <ogra> robertj_: mine neither (because i use nvidia drivers)
[08:43] <robertj_> i dist-upgraded less than a week agp
[08:43] <robertj_> err ago
[08:43] <robertj_> ogra: radeon here
[08:44] <ogra> robertj_: binary drivers ?
[08:44] <robertj_> ogra: whatever ships by default
[08:44] <robertj_> but I do have multiverse in so ...
[08:44] <ogra> robertj_: ah, so the free ones :)
[08:45] <robertj_> anything I should check to see what's causing the problem?
[08:45] <ogra> robertj_: with the binary ones its unlikely that susped will work :(
[08:45] <thom> """
[08:45] <thom>   * E2fsck will try to avoid doing a forced filesystem chcek if a system
[08:45] <thom>     is running on batteries according to APM or ACPI.  (Closes: #205177)
[08:45] <thom> """
[08:46] <thom> From an e2fsprogs upload in November
[08:46] <ogra> robertj_: you can adjus it
[08:46] <ogra> adjust even
[08:46] <robertj_> ogra: adjust what?
[08:46] <robertj_> but it did fsck on battery
[08:47] <ogra> robertj_: the 30 reboot fsck
[08:47] <robertj_> yeah
[08:47] <robertj_> G3 ibook
[08:47] <robertj_> i'd prefer my desktop machine not fsck either
[08:47] <ogra> robertj_: man tune2fs
[08:47] <thom> robertj_: it's possible that we need to load modules or do something smarter, but the code is there
[08:47] <robertj_> ogra: I just mean by default
[08:48] <ogra> robertj_: even if its annoyin to get a check after 30 mounts, i prefer a consisten fs ;)
[08:48] <ogra> consistent...
[08:48] <robertj_> ogra: why is your fs getting corrupted?
[08:48] <ogra> robertj_: no, but a check more cant be bad :)
[08:48] <robertj_> yes it can
[08:49] <robertj_> say you are in a hurry
[08:49] <robertj_> then waiting would be bad
[08:49] <thom> robertj_: i don't think it's something we want to turn off by default
[08:49] <ogra> robertj_: i like the data on my hd, so getting told that everything is in order is just fine
[08:49] <thom> we'd love to see it be interuptible, patches accepted
[08:50] <robertj_> thom: I support a 100 mac users and they have never had any problems with file integrity on OS X except for one issue I heard about where after an upgrade ever drive from a particular manufacturer got corrupted
[08:50] <robertj_> thom: on the disk applet it would be a really nice option
[08:50] <robertj_> check here to check the disk panel every 30 boots/10 days/whatever
[08:51] <robertj_> check here to mail this address when SMART indicates a problem
[08:51] <ogra> SMART should get a dbus message that pops up automatically.....
[08:52] <ogra> as a full disk should have
[08:53] <robertj_> ogra: yeah
[08:53] <thom> robertj_: sounds great, looking forward to the patch ;-)
[08:53] <robertj_> hehe
[08:53] <ogra> *g*
[08:53] <thom> robertj_: seriously though, i've seen just about every filesystem blow up, journalled or not (HFS+ with journal included)
[08:53] <robertj_> "Your disk is about to die. Turn off your computer and call an expert."
[08:53] <ogra> robertj_: i would implement these two for hoary, but i'm busy with something else....
[08:54] <ogra> robertj_: your disk is about 95% full !!
[08:54] <robertj_> thom: seen stable machines have stuff eaten for lunch?
[08:54] <ogra> robertj_: like irix does :)
[08:55] <robertj_> ogra: irix has implemented dbus ;)
[08:55] <ogra> robertj_: yup :)
[08:55] <robertj_> home users just don't want to wait though
[08:55] <ogra> robertj_: and inotify ...and fam....thats where they come from....
[08:56] <robertj_> if the file system really does go nutz, that's the problem, not the failure to check
[08:56] <ogra> robertj_: so get aboard and implement it for them: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
[08:56] <ogra> ;)
[08:57] <robertj_> ogra: i'm sure I actually could manage to hack out the fsck checks by default, but if everyone doesn't agree it would be rather pointless
[08:57] <ogra> robertj_:fsck isnt universe :-P
[08:57] <thom> robertj_: the thing to do, is to ensure that fsck runs in the foreground and make sure it copes with being ctrl+c'd
[08:58] <robertj_> thom: it does cope well for servers
[08:58] <robertj_> but not for desktops, but what's right for desktops aint for servers
[08:58] <thom> robertj_: eh?
[08:58] <thom> robertj_: can you ctrl+c fsck while it's running in init currently?
[08:58] <ogra> thom: shouldnt be a prob since it is able to cope with ctrl-c if being run manually
[08:59] <robertj_> thom: yes, but it wont boot
[08:59] <robertj_> it drops you to a single user console
[08:59] <thom> exactly
[08:59] <robertj_> ro
[08:59] <thom> robertj_: make it not do that, or make it optional
[08:59] <robertj_> I mean, so it works, but it's not the "working" my Dad would consider working
[08:59] <thom> we're on the same page
[08:59] <robertj_> yeah
[09:00] <robertj_> thom: oh btw, usb keyboards dont work at that point
[09:00] <robertj_> unless they are in legacy mode
[09:00] <ogra> robertj_: hmm, does your dad know about ctrl-c ?
[09:00] <robertj_> so if you wanted to opt out, you couldn't
[09:00] <thom> that would seem like the optimal solution...
[09:00] <thom> meh
[09:01] <robertj_> thom: why should the fs be randomly corrupted though unless it's a hardware problem? And if it's a hardware problem, wouldn't bringing the machine down for a reboot  be the wrong choice of action
[09:02] <robertj_> I'm not an expert here by an means
[09:02] <robertj_> but you got to spin the drive around sometime to get the data off unless you have a _lot_ of money and time
[09:03] <thom> robertj_: the timed checks just help to ensure correctness; what's the old saw about "an apple a day keeps the doctor away"?
[09:03] <ogra> heh
[09:03] <robertj_> it's annoying and probably not that helpful to 99% of people
[09:03] <thom> i think most people don't actually care, tbh
[09:04] <thom> it's not like it actually takes that long on modern hardware
[09:04] <ogra> robertj_: its not more annoying then a virus check once a week (over all files on your 80Gig disk)
[09:04] <robertj_> just remember that anyone supporting any kind of non-technical user will get called in to look anytime usersplash boot is interrupted
[09:05] <robertj_> and virus check runs at night or what not
[09:05] <robertj_> but most people don't have a reboot in cron
[09:11] <robertj_> ogra: I honesty can stay I never see my machines to virus checks
[09:11] <robertj_> f-secure is a great product for what it does
[09:12] <ogra> robertj_: yup, but my GF wants to see directly if viruses are detected, so the check is run on saturday evening every weeeeek
[09:13] <Riddell> groovy, kdebindings compiled
[09:13] <Riddell> lamont: could you put back amarok on amd64?  or will it do that itself?
[09:13] <robertj_> ogra: well it prompts you if it finds it
[09:14] <robertj_> when is usually when you try to open the attachment
[09:14] <sivang> pitti: ping
[09:14] <robertj_> finding this a week later is not the best way to do it
[09:14] <ogra> robertj_: sh likes to watchit work ;)
[09:14] <pitti> sivang: pong
[09:14] <ogra> she even
[09:14] <robertj_> but anyway, I think schedule fscks on by default just aren't right for most desktop users
[09:14] <ogra> sivang: i have looked at the server page....its ok this far....
[09:15] <sivang> pitti: Just seen the post about the locales depends for the language packs, maybe there is a possibility of of asking the user when installing the pack if he wants his locale modified and created?
[09:15] <robertj_> anything that can be reasonably done after bootup is good, but by default anything that could disrupt their non-gui experience is a bad thing if it can be at all avoided
[09:16] <ogra> ARGH
[09:16] <pitti> sivang: nooooooo
[09:16] <pitti> sivang: this is not what debconf is for
[09:16] <ogra> did anybody ever check this ubuntuguide ? 
[09:16] <pitti> sivang: the locale can be created without asking
[09:16] <ogra> http://ubuntuguide.org/#extrarepositories
[09:16] <pitti> sivang: but the default locale should not be modified
[09:17] <pitti> sivang: you can easily set it in gdm, or if you want, with dpkg-reconfigure locales
[09:17] <sivang> pitti:I know that, but I was thinking maybe there is an automatic way to do this for the "uninitiated" localized distros..;-)
[09:18] <pitti> sivang: but you can already set the default locale in the installer
[09:18] <sivang> pitti: ah ok, then, I would love you to show me this - I'd like to create a proof of concept dervied livecd/installer cd
[09:18] <sivang> pitti: (localized)
[09:19] <ogra> OMG, anybody following this guide will totally f**ck his system with marillat stable unstable and testing anebled at the same time and the backports in...
[09:19] <pitti> sivang: but AFAIK the live cd also uses some degenerated sort of installer, right?
[09:19] <ogra> gah
[09:19] <sivang> pitti: yes ;-)
[09:20] <pitti> sivang: so this installer should ask for the default locale
[09:20] <pitti> sivang: (which is to be put into /etc/environment)
[09:20] <sivang> pitti: hmm, ok, when the kbd selector is done, this is all redundent. You are right! 
[09:20] <sivang> pitti: (new kbd selector smurifx is working on would guess the person's locale)
[09:20] <pitti> sivang: s/ask/determine and set it/
[09:21] <sivang> pitti: yep, ok, it's all matter of waiting for this to be ready, cool enough. I shall respond to that person post then, explainig this. He is very keen to have this added to the language pack.
[09:22] <pitti> sivang: as I already replied, I think it makes perfect sense to generate the relevant locales in the langpacks
[09:25] <sivang> pitti: so you're saying to move the locale generation from the installer to the langpack based on the info that the intelligent kbd chooser put in /etc/evnironment?
[09:25] <sivang> pitti: (thus eliminating the need for dpkg-reconfigure locales manually)
[09:26] <pitti> sivang: hmm, not quite. /etc/environment handles the default, and this should be set in the installer
[09:27] <pitti> sivang: and this default can be changed with e. g. dpkg-reconfigure locales
[09:27] <pitti> sivang: and I am still not sure about who does the locale generations; eventually it might get thrown out of the "locales" package
[09:34] <sivang> pitti: ok, I just understood from your last email that you don't think that the locale generation should happen on installation of the langpacks..
[09:35] <sivang> pitti: I understood wrongly then ;-)
[09:43] <abelli> ciao, buona notte, im off
[09:43] <pitti> abelli: cu
[09:44] <abelli> ciao pitti
[10:09] <sivang> eh, quite sunday evening in u-d..;-)
[10:10] <ajmitch> or monday morning for us unfortunates
[10:11] <ogra> ogra land is at 22:10
[10:18] <sivang> sivang land is 23:18
[10:19] <HrdwrBoB> bobland is 0818
[10:20] <HrdwrBoB> haha yes but I have to go to work, where I have to deal with people, before midday! it's inhumane
[10:20] <ogra> hehe
[10:20] <ogra> but pay your rent, doesnt it ?
[10:20] <ogra> pays even
[10:20] <HrdwrBoB> yes, that it does :)
[10:22] <HrdwrBoB> ah, I don't hate mine so much, though I will probably have to leave (I'm a contractor now, when the job goes fulltime the salary will go down >25%)
[10:22] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: btw, why are you not a MOTU yet ? you do a lot for ubuntu ....
[10:23] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: yeah, consuling pays :)
[10:24] <HrdwrBoB> I dunno I just hang around and help people with stuff
[10:24] <HrdwrBoB> :)
[10:24] <ogra> go on, join in :)
[10:26] <HrdwrBoB> I'll see about it later :) in the meantime, my tram is waiting
[10:26] <HrdwrBoB> catch you later
[10:26] <ogra> ciao
[10:27] <srbaker> so i want to take evolution, rip out the mail client, and make it use rubrica for address book.
[10:27] <srbaker> anyone know the evo code well enough to know whether or not that's feasable?
[10:28] <srbaker> balsa is a little uh, strange
[10:28] <Mithrandir> srbaker: just replace the addressbook backend, very much feasible.
[10:29] <srbaker> hrm.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> srbaker: bit of work, though.  And you want to do it in evolution-data-server, naturally
[10:29] <Mithrandir> and you want to add a new type, not remove the current one
[10:29] <srbaker> well, i hate evolution.  but i think it would make a good mail client ot start from
[10:38] <srbaker> i quit using evo in favour of balsa.  and balsa is quirky, too
[10:39] <srbaker> are there any Free groupware servers that evo can talk to?
[11:05] <thom> hrm, http://www.clearairturbulence.org/new-ikea-stuff/img002.jpeg.html ; it's not a bad collection
[11:08] <HrdwrBoB> thom: that's very similar to http://hrdwrbob.net/gallery/table/p1010028 this one
[11:09] <HrdwrBoB> though that's My Fiances desk, so she's only got one machine
[11:10] <thom> HrdwrBoB: heh
[11:11] <thom> i'm kinda scared that i only had a laptop 12 months ago
[11:11] <kent> thom, is that two Billy's? the ones you have the books in.  I have two of them myself (they are called Billy at Ikea in sweden)
[11:12] <HrdwrBoB> the desk is jerker
[11:12] <thom> kent: exactly those, yes
[11:12] <thom> HrdwrBoB: yeah
[11:21] <mjg59> thom: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/junk.jpg
[11:22] <HrdwrBoB> haha that desk looks more like mine
[11:23] <HrdwrBoB> large piles of detritus
[11:26] <mjg59> That's /after/ I cleaned everything
[11:29] <thom> mjg59: heh
[11:29] <thom> my a500 is out of shot
[11:29] <kent> mjg59, that bottle of wine makes it soo romantic ;)
[11:29] <thom> i've not worked out where to put it
[11:29] <thom> (pa-risc, not amoeba)
[11:31] <mjg59> kent: What you can only just make out is the bottle of vintage port behind the keyboard...
[11:33] <kent> vintage port?  
[11:33] <mjg59> Yeah
[11:34] <kent> it is some kind of red wine right? i didn't understod if you corrected me for being wrong about the wine or not :(
[11:35] <mjg59> Oh, sorry - there's a bottle of wine next to the speaker, and underneath that there's a rather nice bottle of vintage port
[11:40] <kent> mjg59, i dont realy fancy red wine. Im more a white wine person. I have a bottle of "Franconia Silvaner 2002"  in my room. It tasted very good, :)
[11:41] <sivang> mjg59: do you recall the module you told me need to be added to the Xorg.conf for nv driver to work with higher reolutions then 640x480? (now that susped works with nv)
[11:41] <mjg59> sivang: Uh, not off-hand I'm afraid
[11:42] <HrdwrBoB> ahh, red wine is fine .. white wine makes me stop breating (allergic), but mead is excellent
[11:42] <mjg59> The problem is probably that you've got missing modelines in your Xorg.conf
[11:42] <sivang> mjg59: yes, so did daniel commented about this
[11:42] <mjg59> Best bet is to wait for daniels to show up, he's been working on this
[11:42] <sivang> mjg59: ok, cool.