[10:24] <venda> ChrisH, you up
[10:34] <venda> darn I knew I should have written it down. Whats the URI for upgrade from warty to hoary
[10:50] <venda> abelli, hi
[10:51] <venda> sawubona
[10:52] <abelli> sawubona
[10:52] <abelli>  Hoe gaan dit?
[04:45] <froud> enrico, hi
[04:46] <enrico> hi froud!
[04:46] <froud> finally got the vendor drop thing sorted
[04:46] <froud> but needs upgrade of svn to 1.1.1 or 1.1.2
[04:46] <froud> a combined use of symlinks
[04:47] <froud> I can script the checkout from upstream GNOME etc
[04:47] <froud> into vendor/gnome/current
[04:48] <enrico> upgrade of svn? uhm... I wonder what version is in warty
[04:48] <froud> and copy to vendor/gnome/2.8
[04:48] <froud> then we have symlinks in trunk/ to the 2.8
[04:48] <enrico> We're lucky if Elmo will eventually cooperate at all in this moving of the repository, I seriously doubt he'll want to install a specific version
[04:49] <froud> well that is a problem
[04:49] <froud> but I can now generate ubuntu cust docs for user man
[04:49] <froud> so elmo must decide what he wants to do
[04:50] <froud> btw what is the url for upgrade to hoary?
[04:50] <froud> I want to do it via synaptic
[04:50] <enrico> you just change "warty" with "hoary" in the APT sources
[04:50] <froud> that's it
[04:51] <froud> ok will try, but most of those are linked to archive
[04:51] <froud> is hoary in archive 
[04:52] <froud> my repos in synaptic points to archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[04:53] <froud> so if I cange the distribution field to haory you think that's what will work
[04:53] <froud> any issues with the upgrade?
[04:54] <froud> and warty-security with hoary-security ?
[04:57] <enrico> archive?  uhm, strange
[04:58] <froud> I am looking under synaptic : settings > repositories
[05:00] <enrico> yes, sorry, it's archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[05:01] <enrico> yes, just s/warty/hoary/g
[05:01] <froud> ok so just change the distribution string
[05:01] <froud> did you upgrade go ok?
[05:02] <enrico> Seems to be, yes
[05:02] <enrico> I did it with aptitude, but that shouldn't change much
[05:02] <froud> I assume once I have done this that I will get online updates as they are released, though I wont know what candicate it is?
[05:03] <froud> yes, i can do it via aptitude, but it does the same thing as synaptic
[05:03] <enrico> yes, you'll get every new package developers will upload during the development phase
[05:03] <froud> ok here goes
[05:03] <enrico> you can check HoaryReleaseSchedule to see in which phase we are
[05:05] <froud> reloadingpackage list
[05:07] <venda> enrico, just mark all upgrades and GO!
[05:09] <venda> ok, well here goes nothing :-)
[05:09] <venda> enrico, so what about that SVN thing
[05:09] <enrico> nothing?
[05:10] <venda> yes venda is my crash and burn box
[05:10] <venda> if I crash it does no damage
[05:10] <venda> great for testing
[05:10] <enrico> I run ubuntu under qemu :)
[05:10] <venda> Hmm what's that give url
[05:11] <venda> I hav eused VMware in some cases
[05:11] <venda> but that costs
[05:11] <enrico> apt-cache show qemu
[05:11] <enrico> http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/
[05:12] <enrico> It works really well
[05:13] <venda> whew gnome is slow or what
[05:13] <enrico> you mean, on qemu or in general?
[05:13] <venda> nah just GNOME in general
[05:14] <enrico> how much memory do you have?
[05:14] <venda> and now I remember why I stick with KDE
[05:14] <venda> on this box 768
[05:14] <venda> p3 1 ghz
[05:15] <venda> one of those celeron coppermine processors
[05:16] <venda> so vendor drops
[05:16] <venda> now I have the formula do you want to adopt it?
[05:16] <enrico> Same as in my laptop.  Gnome's quite fast here
[05:16] <enrico> actually, I'm centrino 1.6, but it shouldn't be that much of a difference
[05:17] <venda> you worked on kde yet?
[05:17] <enrico> Yes, I used KDE before
[05:17] <venda> try it you'll feel the difference
[05:17] <enrico> I don't really care about what desktop I use, actually: I mainly use terminals :)
[05:17] <enrico> plus firefox and openoffice
[05:17] <enrico> but I can code in gtk--, and cannot code in QT
[05:18] <venda> yah terminals nice, but not for everyday user
[05:18] <enrico> ehy, that's the everyday usage of this user on this computer :)
[05:18] <venda> so what do you want to do about vendor drops
[05:18] <enrico> When I give lessons to people, we use KDE or Gnome depending on "people"
[05:19] <enrico> about vendor drops, the problem is having the right version on the new server.  That's nontrivial
[05:19] <enrico> Elmo will probably want to have the version that is in Warty, because the servers run warty.  If he installs an arbitrary versions, then he has a nightmare tracking security updates and so on
[05:19] <enrico> So, if warty has the right version, then that's cool.  Else, it's a problem
[05:20] <venda> no warty does not
[05:20] <enrico> does not what?
[05:20] <venda> have the right version
[05:20] <venda> dunno about hoary
[05:21] <venda> I don't get it. Do people want to get docs and be able to take advantage of upstream or not?
[05:22] <enrico> In that case, we might very well postpone customization of the Gnome User's Manual to after hoary came out
[05:22] <enrico> Unless someone will solve the problem for us
[05:22] <venda> sh1t
[05:22] <venda> We are meant to be working on hoary
[05:23] <venda> I give up
[05:23] <enrico> I'm honestly bored with chasing elmo just for this simple migration.  I'd say that we write down what's needed to support the Gnome User's Manual, and either we'll have it, or we won't support it until we have it
[05:24] <enrico> We are working on hoary, but the servers run warty
[05:24] <enrico> You don't want to run an unstable distribution on your servers, don't you? :)
[05:24] <enrico> venda: "never give up, never surrender!"
[05:24] <venda> he can install svn 1.1.2 on warty
[05:25] <venda> I really dont see the problem
[05:25] <venda> this kind of crap from a sys admin
[05:25] <venda> is not good
[05:25] <venda> get a new sys admin
[05:27] <enrico> well, for one thing noone still said "no" to installing 1.1.2 on canonical's servers (the reason being that noone has asked yet :)
[05:27] <enrico> So, we can put down the list of requirements for supporting the GUM and see if they get met
[05:28] <venda> I dont see how we can move forward at the pace required when  we have to deal with shit like this.
[05:28] <venda> crikey this is a technology project
[05:28] <venda> canonical either want to do it properly or just dont do it
[05:28] <venda> we are not asking to bring god to earth
[05:29] <venda> just move to canonical servers and when we do install svn 1.1.2
[05:29] <venda> at the moment we are working on poor hornbecks machine
[05:29] <enrico> I've been chasing Elmo for the last 2 weeks or so
[05:29] <venda> since we dont have svn in canonical and we need to move why not just DO IT
[05:30] <venda> perhaps a message to mark will do the rick
[05:30] <enrico> I'm trying to getting past this issue without attacking people directly
[05:30] <venda> I mean shiot ubuntu want free contibutions and have people who say yes they will
[05:30] <venda> yet when they bring solutions, they cant do it
[05:31] <venda> that's crap
[05:31] <enrico> venda: cool down :)
[05:31] <venda> i spent three days of my time to work it all out
[05:31] <enrico> let's try to ask first :)
[05:31] <venda> you did an you cant even get them to make the move
[05:31] <enrico> I said I'm pessimist, but I didn't say we won't get it
[05:32] <venda> really I am running out of patience
[05:32] <enrico> well, so far I asked politely, but we have a deadline for the move, which is the end of january
[05:32] <enrico> so, the more we get near the deadline, the less I'll be polite
[05:32] <venda> end of january
[05:33] <enrico> About the G.U.M.: to work on it we need vendor drops, and to have vendor drops working fine we need at least subversion 1.1.2.  Is that right?
[05:33] <venda> you do know the hoary freeze is 21 Feb
[05:33] <venda> As I said, my solution needs symlinks
[05:34] <venda> that's only supported in 1.1.1 or 1.1.2
[05:34] <enrico> Ok, so at least 1.1.1
[05:34] <venda> cant see why not 1.1.2
[05:34] <venda> you know what I franklly dont care anymore
[05:35] <venda> just get somebody to do it
[05:35] <enrico> It's goot to set a minimum requirement and an optimal requirement, just in case the optimal requirement turns out to have some problems
[05:35] <venda> argh!! crap. you just set a requirement period
[05:35] <venda> enough
[05:36] <venda> I am not wasting my time
[05:49] <ChrisH> The planet will probably not explode if we don't use vendor drops in Hoary already.
[06:01] <enrico> ChrisH: I agree.  But I can understand froud's frustration after spending time investigating this
[06:02] <ChrisH> Conclusion.... froud is investing too much time. :)
[09:43] <abelli> ciao a tutti