Riddellwhat is the name of the new user friendly application install tool in hoary?12:03
Riddellis it an ubuntu made project?12:04
HrdwrBoBI beleive so12:05
Riddell"ImportError: No module named glade" looks like it's missing a dependency there, time to dig up my bugzilla account12:07
jdubmdz: haha, yeah.12:07
jdubmdz: i think that means bignose on the cover.12:08
Riddell"gobject.GError: Icon 'gnome-settings-default-applications' not present in theme" can anyone tell me what package that icon is in?12:12
mjg59jdub: I found a nice picture of the inside of Cockfosters station12:13
jdubmjg59: NOOOOOO!12:14
jdubRiddell: gnome-icon-theme and gnome-accessibility-themes12:14
mjg59jdub: http://www.charlesholden.com/html/charlesholden_gallery_pages/Cockfosters_1.htm12:15
mjg59Dig the funky concrete roof12:15
=== jdub refuses to look.
mjg59jdub: If I want to do LCA and the Canonical conference and congratulate you on being a married man, what dates do I need to be in Australia?12:17
HrdwrBoBLCA is at the most inconvenient time ever12:18
HrdwrBoBMarch 23; contract expires. April 18-23 LCA, April 30th my wedding12:19
jdubmjg59: wedding party is on the 17th, linux.conf.au is 18th-23rd, UbuntuDownUnder will be 25th to 30th.12:19
jdubHrdwrBoB: haha :)12:19
jdubHrdwrBoB: our honeymoon is lca ;)12:19
mjg59jdub: Party in Sydney?12:19
HrdwrBoBhaha :)12:20
jdubyass (outsiude of canberra)12:20
kentwhat is LCA?12:20
mjg59Heh. I guess I'll probably be flying in and out of Sydney12:21
HrdwrBoBlinux conference in canberra Monday April 18 to Saturday April 23, 2005.12:21
thomUDU is sydney, right?12:23
jdubmost likely12:25
mjg59It's neat that Ubuntu pretty much just works on the Mac Mini12:26
jdubmjg59: oh?12:26
mjg59jdub: According to -usres12:26
mjg59Someone should write a Wiki page on it and then SELL SELL SELL12:26
mjg59Hmm. I can get one for 300 quid with educational discount.12:27
jdubthat's fantastic news!12:28
jdub"48 hours after receiving my Mini I have decided it is not the machine for me. If you would like to purchase my Mini, it is on eBay."12:28
thomare the hoary livecds rsyncable now?12:28
thomjdub: 48 hours seems very short12:29
HrdwrBoBI'd get a mini if it had a useful 3d card12:29
mdzmjg59: how do you go about getting the discount?12:29
mdzthom: yes, they are12:29
mjg59mdz: I sign a solemn pledge that I'm a student at a university on the Apple discount program12:29
HrdwrBoBmdz: find a friend/family member who is working for/going to an educational institution and get them to buy it12:29
mjg59But I can do that online and then order online as well12:30
jdubthom: yeah, they are12:30
mdzmjg59: oh, ok.  you don't have to promise that you're a swell guy, or anything like that?12:30
jdubmdz: dude12:30
jdubmdz: so how much policy for the rest of the image is defined in the d-i stage?12:30
jdubmdz: much more than the kernel?12:31
mdzjdub: meaning what?12:31
jdubmdz: i'm wondering about using the POWER OF CASPER for booting other system images, such as red hat.12:31
mdzjdub: I wrote it with such use cases in mind12:31
jdubobviously the kernel would be an issue, but beyond that, everything else pretty much restarts, right?12:31
mdzall the stuff that I've added falls back gracefully if things aren't the way it expects12:32
mdzthe bits that come directly from d-i probably need tweaks in that area12:32
mdze.g., locale configuration and network configuration12:32
mjg59mdz: Haha. Nope.12:32
mdzjdub: the only issue with the kernel is that the modules in the image need to be loadable by the kernel on the CD12:32
mdzand we could make that a non-issue if we really wanted to12:33
mdzjust costs some space on the CD12:33
mdzjdub: you should be able to build a live CD with isolinux menu options for Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, etc. with a small amount of work12:33
jdubheh -> two kernel monte with a livecd ;)12:33
thommdz: ok, grabbing all the live cds now; will hopefully be in a position to test i386,ia64,amd64 by morning12:34
mdzthom: excellent12:34
thomit's nice having a desk again ;-)12:34
thomnow i just have to work out why grub can't see my sata disks, and i'm laughing12:35
mjg59305.50 including delivery12:36
mjg59I wonder what kind of PM setup it has. Presumbly something very iBookish.12:36
thommjg59: yeah, all macs should expose PMU to some degree12:36
mjg59I need some Mac hardware for PM testing12:38
sivangthom: what chipset? I have also SATA , wonder if they'd work - ICH5 I think I have..12:38
thomsivang: can't remember; it's onboard the motherboard i have. i suspect the disks have just come disconnected in the process of moving12:39
=== mjg59 wonders why the two routes he has to the education store give different prices
mdzhow very IBM12:39
sivangthom: it's a desktop right?12:39
thomsivang: yeah12:39
sivangthom: well, just opend up the cover and check the cables then12:40
thomsivang: oddly, i just checked windows and disk manager can see the drives12:41
mjg59Does anyone have the faintest idea what http://groups-beta.google.com/group/uk.comp.os.linux/msg/ab1c6387c8463151?dmode=source is going on about?12:42
tsengfull threaded smp support?12:43
tsenguserspace support for smp, heh12:43
tsengmjg59: I think its possible that he has a really poor understanding of NPTL/TLS12:43
HrdwrBoBjust another gentoo crazed person12:44
jduboh man12:44
jdub"Ubuntu is worth the install just for the little drum beat that greets you at the login.12:44
jdub^ murray cumming12:45
tsengi smiled at that too, jdub 12:45
tsengi was thinking about his point on su being unintuative12:45
jdub"I mean, if I do su then it shouldn't just ask me for a password when there's no possible correct answer."12:45
jdub^ good point12:45
jdubhaha, yeah12:45
tsengthat perhaps it could give some more useful info and point to an FAQ12:45
tsengon failure.12:46
mjg59Hmm. That's a claim I hadn't heard before - Miguel wanted to take up a job with MS, but ran into INS-related problems.12:46
mjg59Perhaps unsurprisingly, I can't find any independent corroboration.12:47
thomi'd heard that before12:47
mjg59Oh, no, there's an Andrew Orlowski article on The Register which says that12:47
jdubhah, orlowski.12:48
jdub10:46 < mjg59> Hmm. That's a claim I hadn't heard before - Miguel wanted to12:48
jdub               take up a job with MS, but ran into INS-related problems.12:48
jdub10:47 < mjg59> Perhaps unsurprisingly, I can't find any independent12:48
jdub               corroboration.12:48
mjg59You suck12:48
jduboh, putty is *SO* ANNOYING12:48
HrdwrBoBnow I've heard the claim twice12:48
mjg59I  RMS12:49
jdubso /bin/su could do the same thing that sulogin does; checks whether the root password is not set12:49
mjg59What should it do in response?12:49
thomand then tells you to use sudo?12:49
thombut only if it's not being run from sudo, as in sudo su -12:50
jdubwell, then it's already root12:50
jdubsurely this is something upstream would take?12:51
jdubsu is pointless if run as a user with no root password set12:51
jdubit should return some error - could that error be external to the binary?12:52
jdubor perhaps configured at build time would make sense12:52
thomjdub: su - www-data -c foo still has to work, fe12:52
jdubthen you're not su-ing to root ;)12:53
thomno, but you just said: "su is pointless if run as a user with no root password set"12:53
jdubwell, it could check whether the target account, whatever it may be, has a password set12:53
mjg59jdub: Telling someone that there's no root password set is information leakage12:54
jdubwe are talking about the su-to-root use case here ;)12:54
mjg59On the desktop, I don't think it matters. But I don't seem upstream taking it.12:54
jdubmmm, and it couldn't just fail, hey?12:54
jdubsame problem12:54
thomit's not something you'd want on a server, for sure12:54
mjg59If it's an administrative decision not to have a root password, random users shouldn't be able to find that out12:55
mdzjdub: su: you don't even have a chance! (exit 1)12:56
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robertjmjg59: i saw that page you pointed to, I think RMS needs to realize that Free software cannot exist in compliance with patent law01:10
mjg59robertj: Which one?01:11
mjg59Oh, right.01:11
robertjmono & gnome01:11
mjg59RMS doesn't seem to have strong opinions on patents yet01:11
mjg59Or, rather, the correct way of dealing with patents and free software01:11
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ajmitchhi jordi 01:42
pittinight, guys!01:49
robertjDoes anyone else find the Desktop Label for the System menu confusing?02:01
sivangrobertj: hmmm, should be "System" ? ;-)02:02
robertjI mean, most of that stuff isn't on my Desktop02:02
robertjand what does your desktop have to do with rebooting?02:02
sivangShould be syste, but I don't want to start the gnome menus fights again...02:03
sivangDesktop maybe should be "places"?02:04
robertjIs that a Gnome thing or an Ubuntu thing02:04
robertjI know upstream talks were going on but..02:05
jdz_sivang: There's already one called "places"02:05
robertjComputer or System is a much better name02:05
sivangjdz_: eh right, oops ;-)02:05
jdubrobertj: current layout is both ubuntu and upstream.02:05
robertjit just doesn't seem intuitive02:06
robertjwhy  was System nixed?02:06
tsengrobertj: if you think about it, to alot of people Computer = Desktop02:06
jdz_tseng: or laptop, as is my case02:06
jdubrobertj: there's a discussion bug on gnome's bugzilla about this02:06
robertjtseng: yeah, but to a lot of people Desktop = Desktop02:06
tsengand what does Computer mean anymore than Desktop does in the context of the stuff in the menu02:06
tsengAbout Gnome?02:07
jdz_I propose we call it "Stuff"02:07
robertjThat's better than Desktop02:07
tsengi propose that the name is mildly important02:07
robertjat least Stuff makes you think "here is some various stuff"02:07
robertjvs. "Here is what is on my desktop"02:07
tsengrobertj: about gnome = version info about my "desktop"02:07
ajmitchjdz_: you might as well call applications 'stuff', and desktop 'more stuff'02:07
tsengscreenshot is a sshot of my "desktop"02:08
jdz_ajmitch: very well :)02:08
HrdwrBoBajmitch: that sounds like my naming scheme02:08
ajmitchit's generally how I'd organise things anyway :)02:08
robertjshould dragging a file to a launcher pointing to a folder move the file?02:17
HrdwrBoBmove/copy yes02:17
robertj"the Gnome Desktop" is different02:19
robertjbut by that logic Gnome would be a better name02:19
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ajmitchlooks like I need more packages from sid again..02:32
bob2which ones?02:33
ajmitchselinux stuff that I'm working on02:33
ajmitchthankfully rjc said he'd write some debian policy for udev, so I'll be able to boot my system properly :)02:34
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robertjis it at all possible for usb to be brought online before fsck's run?03:08
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sivangdaniels: ping03:14
sivangdaniels: do you remember the module name you told must be in my xorg.conf file for the opensource nv driver to work with higher resolutions then 640x480 ?03:18
sivang(trying to use standby, must use nv driver)03:18
jdubso /dev/hdc isn't created before hdparm is run at rcS.d/S0703:19
ajmitchjdub hmm?03:19
ajmitchudev should be running at S04, right?03:19
jdubit does indeed03:19
jdubbut probably takes its sweet time03:20
jdubwho can i assign an hdparm issue to...03:21
=== jdub chooses thom.
danielssivang: er, you just need HorizSync and VertRefresh lines for nv03:21
ajmitchdoes udev run in the background while creating the device nodes?03:22
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ajmitchor does everything still block on it?03:22
jdubinit.d/udev runs udevstart03:26
jdubso nothing really blocks on it03:26
jdub(it was hotplug that was the big blocker)03:26
ajmitchyeah, udevstart being a symlink03:26
ajmitchI've been having some problems with it in the last couple of days when an selinux policy has been loaded by init03:26
ajmitchtrying to get it sorted :)03:26
ajmitchso I doubt that it'll make feature freeze03:28
robertjjdub: is there a way to determine if a ps/2 keyboard is connected?03:33
jdubno idea03:35
robertjjdub: because back to the fsck issue, not only is it annoying to laptop/home users, its also really annoying to people running servers on macs03:35
jdubwhich fsck issue?03:36
robertjrunning before usb comes online03:36
robertjbecause if it stops and you don't have a live cd you can't tell it to continue03:36
jduboh right03:37
robertj(kinda related to my gripe about the scheduled fscking by default)03:37
robertjcould that be avoided by building in usb stuff?03:38
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mdzrobertj: the usual way to manage that situation is that the BIOS will emulate a PS/2 keyboard if only a USB keyboard is available03:59
mdzunfortunately, some of them don't03:59
mdzyou can always load the USB drivers in the initrd04:00
danielsmdz: (or it's configurable, and defaults to not doing so)04:00
mdzyeah, "USB legacy blahblah" or whatever04:00
robertj_mdz: didn't knnow that04:02
opior, instead of initrd, you can put it into kernel :-)04:02
robertj_although it doesn't make much sense for a mac to emulate a legacy keyboard04:02
jdubbasic usb key driver in the initrd isn't a terrible idea04:05
robertj_what sort of problems might it cause?04:05
mdzopi: "sudo vi /etc/mkinitrd/modules" is much more maintainable than building your own kernels04:06
mdzjdub: all of hotplug in the initrd isn't a terrible idea04:07
opimdz: I guess, I just used to build kernel without help of Debian tools04:07
mdzat least, storage, input, network04:07
robertj_mdz: that would make my toaster angry04:07
jdubmdz: waiting for initramfs :)04:07
mdzjdub: don't hold your breath04:08
mdzrobertj: how so?04:08
robertj_ram limits ;)04:08
opiahh, 4:08 Am04:08
opiI should start packing to work ;)04:08
HrdwrBoBmdz: that would be good, I didn't move a hard drive to a different controller the other day purely because I didn't want to stuff around with initrd04:08
mdzthe hotplug infrastructure is only a few hundred K uncompressed; shouldn't make the initrd much bigger at all04:09
ograopi: hehe, same here04:09
opiogra: I'll be first in the office (yet again;-)04:09
ograopi: i'm working hadrly on getting fired ;) i'll not be there before 12 :)04:10
opiogra: and they say the labor maket is tigth. ;p04:10
robertj_mdz: but what modules do you load in?04:10
opiogra: I'm chasing deadlines, so I have to work 19h per day do get there before end of the month04:11
ograopi: maybe, but i cant stand digital tv ...04:11
opiogra: I don't even have a TV ;p04:11
robertj_opi: eek, I hope you get paid well!04:11
HrdwrBoBtseng: the initrd has them all already04:11
opirobertj_: haha, sorry, nope04:11
HrdwrBoBer robertj_ 04:11
opirobertj_: I'm just workoholic, I could work for a butter ;p04:12
robertj_Hrdwr: hrmm, so just sitting around waiting for hotplug to bring the monline eh04:12
opiand coffeine04:12
mdzrobertj_: the -hcd driver for the controller, and usbhid, should get you a working keyboard04:12
robertj_opi: eek, I need more challenging work04:12
HrdwrBoBopi: excellent, come and work for me I will pay you in food scraps and old hardware04:13
mdzas a matter of fact, this desktop has a BIOS which doesn't give me proper USB emulation, so I've been meaning to do that myself04:13
robertj_I'm on site like 30 hours a week and work like 10 ;)04:13
opiHrdwrBoB: sorry, I could give you some spare hardware, too ;))04:14
=== ogra has just finished something.....
ograjdub.....patch sent :-D04:14
opiHrdwrBoB: and .au is a bit far ;p04:14
jdubogra: rockin :)04:15
ograjdub: yay04:16
ajmitch.au is just a short swim for me..04:16
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ajmitchhi azeem 04:16
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opigrrr. fsck!04:40
opidamn, stupid Gnome terminal :(04:40
opihttps://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5716 -- is there a way to avoid this? Or should I just use XTerm?04:41
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HrdwrBoBuse gvim?04:42
tritiumHi.  Is the "Developer Resources" page on the wiki gone?  I can't find it.04:42
HrdwrBoBI beleibe it's a screen/gnome-terminal problem04:43
opiHrdwrBoB: I prefer to SSH to my box at work04:43
mdzthat screenshot does not seem to show vim04:43
HrdwrBoBopi: ssh -X :)04:43
mdzah, the second one does04:43
opimdz: it's VIm after screwup04:43
opimdz: yeah, I made a mistake ;)04:43
HrdwrBoBopi: looks like a website to me04:43
opiHrdwrBoB: second one04:43
opiGTK file selector fooled me again ;)04:43
opiHrdwrBoB: tell that to my ISP ;p04:43
tritiummdz, you mentioned on the devel mailing list that resources to be found on "Develop Resources" wiki page would help track status of openoffice.org 2.004:44
tritiummdz, could you please point me to that wiki page?04:44
mdztritium: DeveloperResources04:44
opitritium: see topic04:44
mdzis what I wrote in the email, and is also the name of the page04:44
tritiumsorry, I searched for "Developer" and "Resources" on the wiki, and didn't get a hit04:45
jdubsearch doesn't find stuff in titles haw haw04:45
tritiumI didn't think to concatenate the two words04:45
tritiumI see.04:46
mdztritium: there is a bug where searching for the title of a page doesn't find the page04:48
tritiummdz, okay, thanks.  And sorry to bother you.04:48
=== mdz pummels Plone
opiit's not a bug, it's a feature ;0)04:48
opilike VIm screwup04:49
tritiummy whole point of searching for the "resources" you mentioned was to avoid pestering you04:49
opitritium: I think mdz is not mad at you :)04:49
=== HostingGeek|ZZZ is now known as HostingGeek
tritiumopi, yeah, glad I'm not pummeled like Plone :)04:50
opitritium: that would be $50, thank you ;P04:50
mdzplone has felt my wrath before04:50
tritiumopi, check is in the mail04:50
opitritium: I hope it's not made from rubber ;p04:52
opitritium: anyway, it should go to mdz 04:52
tritiumoh, it'll bounce04:52
opiactualy, some newbies fall for that04:52
opiwhen a newbie came to #debian.pl and ask for help04:53
opisomeone lead him for hand04:53
opiand after, when the problem was solved,04:53
opihe told him: That would be 50 PLN 04:53
tritiumpoor newbie04:53
opisome people was willing to pay, untill we told'em it's a joke around here04:53
opiperson a) hi guys, what's up? b) nothing, that'll be 50 PLN.04:54
tritiumActually, donations to your paypal account are reasonable, especially since you send out free CDs04:54
opiwe just like helldesks04:54
opifree CDs are here thanks to Canonical04:55
jdz_Thanks Canonical!04:55
opiI hope the Horay CD will be even better designed04:57
opior, maybe not, because of that everyone take my Ubuntu CDs away ;)04:57
robertj_is free shipping going to continue04:57
tritiumI going to pass the Hoary PPC Live CD around Purdue's ECE department.  All the faculty have macs, and are impressed with how I've setup my lab with ubuntu.04:57
opifrom what I read, yes04:57
tritiumI'm going to convert Debian's own birthplace into an ubuntu stronghold.04:58
opibut I guess you should ask Canonical guys04:58
robertj_I'd love to get billed $10 per release and get my 10 cds04:58
tritiumI'd pay for CDs as well.04:58
opiyou can get'em free and donate, no? :)04:59
jdz_Same here.  Actually, what'd be totaly awsome, would be DVDs.  Throw all the supported packages on there.  Good for those of us with limited bandwidth.04:59
robertj_opi: well lazyness factors in04:59
robertj_id rather just they show up04:59
opijdz_: DVD won't have Universe04:59
opijdz_: a) it won't fit b) it's not supported ;p04:59
jdz_opi: I realise that.  But a DVD with supported would be awsome.04:59
opijdz_: DVD will be there, when main will be too big, methinks05:00
opijdz_: Ubuntu should be 1-cd-distro05:00
opiso, next step is DVD05:00
robertj_I hope next step is cd05:01
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opiI wonder, is there any pager with ability to use escape codes (color in that case)05:07
opiI did a CGI script for something, that outputs in different colors, depends on success05:07
opiif I'll log it, less won't show it correctly05:07
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mdzjdz_: a DVD with all of supported is already produced on a weekly basis05:30
jdz_mdz: oh!  totaly awsome!  thanks :D05:31
mdzit would benefit from more testing05:31
jdubmdz: currently only install, right?05:33
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mdzjdub: yes05:40
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mdzjdub: why, do you think a live DVD with all of supported installed would be a good idea?05:40
jdubmdz: haha05:40
jdubmdz: livedvd with supported install and normal live image :)05:40
jdubmdz: i thought that was the goal?05:40
mdzah, yes05:40
mdzwe're not quite there yet05:40
jdubalthough a livedvd with massive chunks of supported would be an enjoyable idiocy ;)05:41
mdzopi left, but "less -R" is probably the answer to his question05:41
jdz_mdz: I was wondering about that too, so thanks for the answer anyways :)05:49
sivangmdz: it would allow us to reach the netless people that are still out there...06:14
fabbionejdub: 543106:33
mdzfabbione: morning06:35
fabbionemorning mdz06:36
jdubfabbione: thanks06:37
fabbionejdub: did you try installing hoary on your sparc? or do i need come there and kick your butt around to do that? :P06:42
jdubit's installable now?06:43
fabbioneit should be06:43
fabbioneif you don't try you will never know06:44
jdubwith netboot.iso, tftpbooting?06:44
fabbioneyeah that should work06:44
mdzno iso yet?06:45
fabbionejdub: ^^06:45
jdubfabbione: what do you test on?06:45
fabbionejdub: netra t106:45
fabbionemdz: no, and no ubuntu-meta either...06:46
fabbionemdz: that's why i asked you to add sparc to germinate/seeds & co. :-)06:46
mdzfabbione: I don't remember that06:46
mdzgerminate is Kamion's baby, and it should be trivial to include sparc06:47
fabbionemdz: it was on friday i think, but i also said that there was no rush06:47
mdzwhich packages need to be seeded?06:47
fabbionemdz: he was mumbling something about using sparc.u.c since germinate has no concept of multiple archives06:47
mdzah, right06:47
mdzsame problem with ubuntu-meta06:47
fabbionesilo, silo-installer, sparc-utils should do...06:48
whiprushi can help test sparc this week, we have an assortment of them at work.06:48
fabbionewhiprush: that would be cool, but keep in mind i did test only 2 installation06:49
fabbioneand it is not a supported arch yet06:49
=== whiprush nods
fabbioneso if it fails you are kinda on your own ;)06:49
whiprushheh, it's ok, they're doing nothing but sitting around anyway.06:49
fabbioneand patches to fix problems are more welcome than bugs :-)))06:49
jdubfabbione: burned.06:51
fabbionethat's tftp boot dude06:51
fabbioneor did you burn the mini.iso?06:52
jdubno, i mean, machine is burned.06:52
jdubserious namespace issues with mr. cdrom06:54
=== fabbione isn't completely sure what jdub is mumbling about.. it must be some aussies dialect
mdzmumble mumble coopers mumble mumble kangaroos06:55
HrdwrBoBmumble telstra mumble assgobblers mumble06:55
fabbionemdz: would you bless a message to announce for the sparc port?06:56
fabbioneor should we wait for ubuntu-meta to be in place?06:56
mdzfabbione: ubuntu-meta doesn't seem like a prerequisite, no06:57
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fabbioneisn't that required to install ubuntu-desktop?06:58
fabbioneubuntu-base & co...06:59
mdzonly if you try to apt-get install ubuntu-desktop or whatever06:59
mdzd-i uses the Task: header instead07:00
fabbionemdz: i am going to send a mail to you for itaglish proof reading :)07:00
mdzyou should have an Itaglish project in Rosetta07:01
mdzand then I could translate07:01
danielsmdz: what's that, it_EN?07:01
opiwith my Engrish, I deserve to have my own Rosetta place07:05
opipl_OPI or something ;)07:05
jdubfabbione: kernel panic, couldn't find libc :)07:06
jdubfabbione: on mini.iso07:06
jdub'attempt to access beyond end of device'07:06
fabbionejdub: that's a mini.iso boot parameter that might be wrong07:07
fabbioneyou can try to increase the ram size for the initrd07:07
jdubfrom silo?07:08
fabbioneit's a kernel parameter07:08
fabbionewait a sec...07:08
fabbione        append vga=normal initrd=debian-installer/i386/initrd.gz ramdisk_size=12358 root=/dev/rd/0 rw  --07:09
fabbionethis is what is added to i386 pxeboot07:09
fabbioneso you need to twick the ramdisk_size07:10
jdubtops, that worked07:10
jdubnow at language screen07:11
fabbionedaniels: hey. install your sparc kid!07:14
jdubfabbione: ok, after the language/location/keymap questions, it loops clearing the screen07:14
jdubfabbione: debian-installer/framebuffer in the ps output07:15
danielsfabbione: give me an archive to mirror off :)07:15
fabbionedaniels: sparc.u.c :-)07:15
jdubfabbione: which is stopping and starting07:15
fabbionejdub: hmm that's clearly a d-i bug07:15
danielsfabbione: rsyncable?07:16
fabbionejdub: you can switch to vty2 and change the script on the fly to avoid restarting07:16
fabbionedaniels: yeps07:16
jdubactually, it's debian-installer itself that keeps restarting07:16
fabbionei probably didn't see this problem because i am on console only mode07:16
fabbionewe will have to ask Kamion about it.07:18
fabbionei am not sure how much he changed in the fb section recently07:18
fabbionejdub: can you try to use the older installer?07:31
fabbionethere are 2 versions hanging on sparc.u.v07:31
fabbionehem .c07:31
jdubon its way07:33
fabbionei have older ones in the morgue but it will be easier to ask Kamion when he is back07:34
ajmitchfabbione: kernel options checked out07:36
fabbioneajmitch: good07:36
fabbionemdz: you got mail :-)07:41
fabbionemdz: if you can proof read it and change what you think should be changes, it would be great07:41
mdzfabbione: I always od07:41
fabbionemdz: you don't always get mails from me :-)07:41
mdzI got mail from Lisa Clayton about online IT courses07:42
fabbionewow.. that'd be cool07:44
fabbionei never get mails from Lisa :-)07:44
sivangmdz: who's Lisa? ;-)07:45
mdzshe mails me all the time07:45
fabbionebah people must stop filing bugs with url to the forums07:45
fabbionemdz: lucky you07:45
mdzsometimes about viagra, sometimes about IT education, sometimes about discounted copies of MS Windows07:45
fabbionei would take the latter :P07:45
sivangmdz: hehehe i get mine from caroline bedford...07:45
sivangI even get urge requests to allow some .za millonare to put all his money in my account until he can take it back..when he comes back there..It amazing how much variation of this email are out there.07:46
danielsi gave my bank details to a .za millionaire07:47
danielsmy balance even went up a bit after that07:47
sivangdaniels: heheh07:47
sivangdaniels: sure, if it was him, I'd give him my bank account before he could say "Eureeka" ;-)07:48
danielsmdz: the message hasn't come to me, but we actually have a driver for that specific wireless kill switch in hoary -- fsam740007:52
danielsmdz: the mailing list message about wireless kill switches07:53
bob2daniels: does hotplug load your bluetooth modules?07:56
danielsi think so, yeah07:58
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mdzdaniels: you have bluetooth devices?08:05
=== bob2 renames his laptop "unlovedbyubuntu"
danielsmdz: my phone has bluetooth love08:05
mdzMark made a request for better bluetooth integration in Hoary08:05
mdzwhat are we missing?08:05
danielsi don't know as to things other than phones; all i use is gnome-bluetooth and gnome-phone-manager08:05
danielsbasically for sending the photos i take with my camera phone to my computer08:06
danielsi never did get syncing to work; that would be absolutely killer in general08:06
mdzbob2: Ubuntu loves all08:07
danielseven those who didn't buy IBM laptops08:08
jdubmdz: i've got some build fixes to do08:08
jdubmdz: then some input testing08:08
mdzdaniels: there are laptops which aren't made by IBM?08:08
=== mdz makes a cross with his fingers
crimsunjdub: how far along is the polypaudio transition, and what can I do to assist?08:09
bob2gnome-bluetooth doesn't seem to be installable atm08:09
danielsmdz: apparently there's an 'x300' or some shit.  sounds like a cheap ripoff of the x40.08:09
jdubcrimsun: we should do it straight away08:10
jdubi think08:10
bob2I hear some fruit company is making laptops now too08:10
bob2jdub: fix gnome-bluetooth08:10
jdubbob2: see above08:10
bob2jdub: oh08:11
bob2jdub: well then :)08:11
chrisabob2: I hear those laptops break a lot08:11
bob2chrisa: only when used to beat jealous non-believers08:12
chrisabob2: The one in my backpack was never used for such beatings08:12
fabbioneajmitch: so is there any other CONFIG option i need to change or TMPFS_XATTR is the last one?08:22
fabbionemdz: 5749, any idea?08:44
fabbionecould it be related to the new alsa changes?08:45
crimsunfabbione: I doubt it08:53
crimsunfabbione: 5749 needs to attach lsmod output for 2.6.10-1 and 2.6.10-208:58
crimsunfabbione: reads like an irq issue or the secondary codec08:58
fabbionecrimsun: can you just ask for it?08:59
fabbionei am in the middle of a build orgy :-)08:59
crimsunfabbione: I'll do that.09:00
enricoHello.  Is there a collective e-mail for the sysadmin team?09:01
enricoI mean, sysadmins for the Canonical server farm09:02
enricoOk.  I thought there was a team with more than one person09:04
fabbionecrimsun: thanks09:04
fabbionejdub: meh! there is also thombot!09:04
fabbioneciao enrico09:04
enricofabbione: ciao!09:04
danielsadmins@admins.warthogs.hbd.com IIRC09:05
enricodaniels: thanks!09:05
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=== fabbione hides from pitti
fabbionehey dude :-)09:07
pittifabbione: no reason to, I don't have new kernel vulns :-)09:08
=== pitti yawns
fabbioneah that sounds cool09:08
=== opi yawns, too
opiI need to wake up09:10
pittiI should go to bed earlier...09:11
opiI shouldn't get up around 2:00 am ;)09:19
pittielmo: please sync awstats09:19
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fabbioneedd: ping09:56
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=== daniels takes a bone and invites Keybuk to join in the picking.
fabbionebella Scott110:03
danielsKeybuk: so.  automake.  libtool.10:05
jdubseb128: ping10:06
seb128jdub: pong10:07
jdubdoes your nautilus-sendto work with gaim?10:07
seb128hey hey :)10:07
seb128afaik yep10:07
danielsseb128: how's that keyboard bug going? :)10:07
jdubi only get evo in the little menu10:07
Keybukdaniels: right?10:07
seb128at least here it works if I active the plugin in gaim10:07
jdubaha :)10:08
seb128apparently you have not :p10:08
danielsKeybuk: see my unimpressed face10:08
seb128evince 0.1.1 uploaded :)10:08
jdubseems a bit bong that you have to turn on a gaim plugin :|10:08
danielsKeybuk: the common code has some power management symbols, which are used for back-and-forth references with os-specific code10:09
jdubFIE ON GAIM10:09
seb128jdub: perhaps there is a way to turn the default for the plugin ?10:09
jdub(i almost typed gamin)10:09
jdubseb128: probably in gaim pref defaults -> ick10:09
danielsKeybuk: once I solved the fact that those got cleaned up automatically (having a libcommon_a_WHOLESOURCES for --whole-archive would be nice), I ran into the awful static interdependency thing10:09
danielsKeybuk: so I made a shared archive, but libtool won't make shared archives for noinst10:10
sivangseb128,pitti,others : morning10:10
jdubsendto is great10:10
pittiHi sivang!10:10
danielsjdub: a pox on gaim, eh10:10
HrdwrBoBa pox on gamin too, while we're at it10:10
sivangpitti: How are you ?10:10
HrdwrBoBwhy not be thorough10:10
Keybukdaniels: yeah, Libtool does; noinst_LTLIBRARIES gives you a "convenience library"10:10
pittisivang: fine, thanks! I made good progress with postgresql 8 yesterday :-)10:10
sivangpitti: ah cool, you may want maybe to add something about it to wiki/ServerTeam ?10:11
danielsKeybuk: in the end I disabled power management in order to think about it later, so the OS-specific code didn't call back into common in that regard, but ugh10:11
danielsKeybuk: just seems a bit wack that how your library's built depends on the install process10:12
fabbioneelmo: ping10:12
pittisivang: hmm, what shall I add there?10:12
jdubseb128: haha, you can't get files, can you?10:14
jdubFIE ON GOSSIP10:14
jdubseb128: hrmph.10:15
jdubseb128: evince... hrmph.10:15
seb128jdub: you sent a file ?10:15
jdubseb128: yeah ;)10:15
seb128jdub: I thought than file transferts were only working for msn accounts10:15
jdubgaim seems to think it can send10:15
seb128can you send from gaim ?10:16
seb128or only with nautilus-sendto ?10:16
sivangpitti: maybe something on support it has under ubunut, actually it may be only some info mainly for "marketing" the fact ubuntu is very suitable at being for example, or a suggestion how a pakcage can be made to make ubuntu with single apt-get a prefect out-of-the-box sql server? ;-) 10:18
pittisivang: hmm, currently I do postgresql in my spare time, and usually maintain it through Debian10:19
sivangpitti: ah right..10:20
pittisivang: I did not yet talk with sabdfl/mdz about a particular Ubuntu PostgreSQL support10:20
sivangpitti: ok, cool, I was just thinking we should start maybe working towards wiping the "desktop distro" thing, I think one thing that could be done as a starters is making meta packages that pull some sever + a gui controller app for it, so admin would get a working environemtn (if not optimised yet) by one apt-get install. one of the ideas I had wrt that.10:28
danielsKamion: ping10:29
seb128Keybuk: just commented on  #5562 for you10:35
fabbione dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg10:38
fabbione /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg.postinst: line 1075: [: : integer expression expected10:38
danielsfabbione: PENDINGUPLOAD :)10:38
fabbionedaniels: ok10:38
fabbionelet me guess...10:38
danielsfabbione: (happens if you don't have a recent-enough xresprobe; I bumped the Suggests to >= 0.4.13, but we don't Depend on it)10:38
fabbioneit's related to Horiz and Vert sync/rate10:38
danielsfabbione: yeah10:39
danielsfabbione: when $DISPTYPE is empty (i.e. xresprobe didn't tell us)10:39
danielsthere's a -n $DISPTYPE on it now10:39
fabbionedaniels: i have 0.4.13 installed10:39
Keybukseb128: yeah, I just replied10:39
danielsfabbione: bong10:40
danielslet me check it out later10:40
danielsi have an xorg upload in the queue here, as well as dbus10:41
danielsand I have to eat too :)10:41
fabbionei am checking it now10:41
danielsbut yeah, IIRC that's an empty $DISPTYPE10:42
Mithrandirmore likely an empty NRES10:42
Mithrandirsince it's not assigned to at line 107510:42
danielsoh, right10:42
danielsyes, I've fixed that locally also :)10:42
Mithrandirthat's assigned like 20 lines later.10:42
danielsmaybe that's why I couldn't reproduce it10:42
danielsyeah, that test is now below the NRES thing10:43
=== fabbione sighs
Mithrandir    NRES=010:43
Mithrandir    for i in $RESOLUTIONS; do10:43
Mithrandir      NRES=$(expr $NRES + 1)10:43
Mithrandir    done10:43
Mithrandirdude, you know about $#, don't you?10:43
fabbioneuh? no10:43
fabbionei remember i wrote that10:43
Mithrandiractually ${#RESOLUTIONS}10:43
fabbioneugly but effective10:44
Mithrandirat least if $RESOUTIONS is an array10:44
fabbioneno it's not..10:44
fabbioneit's a list in a string i get from xresprobe10:44
Mithrandiryeah, it can't be an array.  posix sh sucks.10:44
Mithrandirand ${#RES} would be the string length.10:45
=== Mithrandir stops blubbering and goes to get a switch fixed.
pittielmo: please sync enscript10:52
danielsalternately, we could use NRES=$(echo $RESOLUTIONS | wc -w)10:53
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Kamiondaniels: yes?11:12
Kamiongeez, about a million people were looking for me this weekend11:12
=== Kamion assumes anything important got mailed
jdubdid you get a strange sms? :)11:12
thomjdub: you better not have filed a duplicate bug about hdparm :P11:13
jdubit was not clearly duplicate :)11:14
thomnot duplicate on "hdparm: run too early"? ;-)11:15
Kamionjdub: phone out of battery at the moment, will no doubt get it eventually ;)11:16
thomright, lets see how this live cd goes11:19
fabbionehey Kamion 11:20
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fabbioneKamion: can you read the scrollback when you have time? jdub did a test install on sparc, but apparently something in d-i broke fb between ubuntu5 and ubuntu611:22
jdubelmo: ping11:22
jdubfabbione: reminds me... ;)11:22
eruinany chance of getting updates for linux-restricted-modules for 2.6.8 (k7) ? 2.6.9 incorporates a change in ptrace that breaks cedega/copy protection, while 2.6.10 won't boot due to bug#558211:22
fabbionejdub: wasn't the loop that d-i was restarting?11:23
eruinI can't use nvidia-glx since the linux-restricted-modules I have for 2.6.8 is nvidia6111, and for some reason I have to reinstall the official drivers on every boot to fix a memory segment fault...11:24
eruinoh so sorry if this comes across as whine ;)11:25
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Kamionfabbione: I saw that in scrollback, but it doesn't mean I know what's going on11:30
Kamionfabbione: and, you know better. ubuntu5 and ubuntu6 of what?11:30
thom-livehrm, this live cd thang is pretty sweet11:30
fabbioneKamion: d-i11:30
Kamionthe debian-installer source package just assembles the output of other packages11:30
fabbioneKamion: perhaps jdub can give you more info :-)11:30
thom-livebasically the only problem is the lack of monitor probing on amd64...11:30
=== thom-live pokes daniels
Kamionfabbione: anyway the only likely candidate for change there is the kernel11:31
fabbioneKamion: right... the lists should be on sparc.u.c11:31
Kamionit's your port, you get to debug it :)11:31
Kamiondiff the initrd.list files11:32
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fabbioneKamion: i know. but it's unlike that i  know all the bits of all the code out there :-)11:32
Kamionrootskel didn't change, busybox changed but not in a way that's interesting for that, and nothing else but the kernel is liable to be relevant11:33
Kamionah, no, busybox actually didn't change11:33
fabbionejdub: where was the installer hanging or looping?11:33
jdubfabbione: seemed to be on initialising or configuring the fb11:37
jdub/dev/fb0 existed11:37
jdub/proc/fb existed (nothing in it)11:37
Kamion/dev/fb/0 surely11:38
jdubyeah, sorry11:38
jdubseb128: no gnomemeeting 1.2.0?11:38
seb128jdub: ups, that's because it's in experimental and nobody as asked a sync ...11:39
seb128jdub: and they have not released for ages so I've forgotten about it11:39
seb128I'll update it :)11:39
jdubhrm, got a few here11:42
jdubsome are recent, some are not11:42
eruinare you guys tracking fedora patches like that?11:44
thomgack. Need to get 464MB/465MB of archives11:44
thomeruin: ym the gtk filechooser?11:45
thomeruin: yeah, will be11:45
eruinok :)11:45
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fabbionejdub: is there something relevant in /var/log/ ?11:53
fabbioneiirc d-i stores all its logging bit somewhere there11:54
Kamion/var/log/ before reboot, /var/log/debian-installer/ after reboot11:54
jdubi'll have to try it again in a while11:55
fabbioneKamion: accoring to the diff on the list there are plenty of udebs that are changed :-P11:56
fabbioneaccording even11:56
fabbioneKamion: http://www.fabbione.net/udiff <- anything that rings a bell?11:57
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seb128elmo: pwlib sync from experimental please12:02
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Kamionfabbione: yes, I already looked at that list myself12:04
Kamionfabbione: anna doesn't run until later. casper-check's irrelevant. cdebconf hasn't started yet. di-utils is irrelevant. file-preseed is irrelevant. hotplug-udeb is a possibility I suppose, but you get to check that. initrd-preseed's irrelevant. kbd-chooser runs later. libdebconfclient0-udeb hasn't started yet. libnss-dns-udeb's irrelevant. localechooser and main-menu run later. preseed-common, rescue-check are irrele12:06
Kamionfabbione: the only possibility I see is hotplug; porting that is your job. :-)12:06
Kamionseriously I can't afford to give debugging time to unofficial ports at the moment; if unofficial means anything, then it must mean that ...12:06
fabbioneKamion: yes i understand. i didn't ask for a fix, but for the right direction to look at. and i posted the diff because i didn't get that you already looked at it12:08
fabbionethanks for your time anyway12:09
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Kamionpitti: is language-pack-* guaranteed to depend only on stuff in base, or is it allowed to depend on things in desktop?12:12
Kamionpitti: and what should server installations do?12:12
pittiKamion: language-pack-[update]  only depends on a recent libc612:13
pittiKamion: so, yes, only base12:13
pittiKamion: the bigger problem is language-support12:13
Kamionwould it make sense to install language-pack-* in the first stage?12:13
Kamionor should it be a second-stage thing?12:13
pittiKamion: these packages depend on packages in supported, not only in shipped12:13
Kamionthat's not a problem12:13
pittiKamion: I would favor second12:13
Kamionwell, not a soluble one12:13
Kamionnot all the language packs will fit on the CD so they can't all be shipped anyway12:14
pittiKamion: would it be possible to try to --dry-run the installation of language-support before actually doing it?12:14
Kamionno we'll just try to install them and ignore failures12:14
pittiKamion: then the installer would not install the support package if no network is present12:14
Kamionnot necessary12:14
pittiKamion: okay, same effect12:14
pittiKamion: so the support package is installed if dependencies can be fulfilled on CD (or from network), and not installed otherwise?12:15
pittiKamion: server installations should not install support12:15
pittiKamion: however, they should probably install language-pack12:15
Kamionif its dependencies can't be fulfilled then germinate will not allow it to be on the CD anyway12:15
pittiKamion: btw, what do you think about moving locale generation from package "locales" to language-pack-XX?12:16
Kamionsee my mail to the list12:16
pittiKamion: then we don't need the first debconf question any more12:16
KamionI don't think it's appropriate to *move* it12:16
pittido in addition?12:16
Kamionpitti: which first debconf question?12:16
pittiKamion: the locales question of which locales to support12:17
pitti(not shown usually, though)12:17
Kamionsome people were saying some very scary and wrong things in scrollback about having the keyboard selector thing imply a locale12:17
Kamionpitti: that's a useful question to have for experts, it shouldn't be removed12:17
pittiso l-pack would just add its locales (if not already present) to /etc/locale.gen and call locale-gen12:17
Kamion(keyboard selection can't imply a locale; they're totally orthogonal things ...)12:17
Kamionand depend on locales, if it doesn't already12:18
pittiit doesn't already12:18
Kamionok, will need to12:18
pitticool, so array 4 could already have a full language pack support installer?12:19
KamionI'm working on the base-config changes, they're kind of tied in with better kickstart support12:19
pittineat, then I will see to add the locale generation stuff soon12:19
Kamionneed to decide which language packs to put on the CD though12:19
pitti^ probably a tb item?12:19
pittiI remember sabdfl saying something about 10 to 15 supported languages12:20
pittiright now all the langpacks don't use much more space than before12:20
Kamiondisk space on CD may trump sabdfl ;)12:20
pittisince the same files now get stripped from the application debs12:20
Kamionsabdfl < laws of physics < baby jesus12:20
pittibut in the long run, and with Rosetta, translations will grow :-)12:20
Kamionhm, have you seen the languagelist file in localechooser?12:22
Kamionit has a list of fallback locales for each language12:23
pittino, I did not see it12:23
KamionI'm wondering if we should install all the language packs matching locales listed as fallbacks12:23
=== pitti downloads
Kamionthat would mean most languages would get language-pack-en which is probably a useful thing, and e.g. Norwegian would get Danish and Swedish too as fallbacks12:24
Kamionor Galician would get Spanish12:24
pittihmm, sounds as if it would make sense12:24
pittiI now have the list on my screen12:25
pittihowever, why should German folks use en_GB?12:25
mvo_seb128: is there already a open bug that nautilus-cd-burner does not allow blanking a RW?12:25
Kamion*shrug* that doesn't matter, it'll map to language-pack-en12:25
Kamionit's just a fallback, it has to be a full locale but it's not very important which it is12:25
pittiKamion: right, but en is the fallback to most/all languages12:25
Kamionyes, that's good :)12:26
seb128mvo_: correct12:26
mvo_seb128: a word from upstream when it will get fixed :) ?12:26
seb128mvo_: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16435212:26
pittiKamion: well, e. g. es as a fallback to Galician makes sense12:26
seb128mvo_: no, no reply at all12:26
Kamionthis means we can ask for some English locale while debugging12:26
seb128mvo_: but if you umount it or try again it works12:26
pittiKamion: but installing en everywhere seems a bit too much...12:26
MithrandirKamion: I'm a bit reluctant with having other nearby languages as fallbacks, actually.  Having a UI with Norwegian and English is a lot less cluttered and confusing than Norwegian Bokml, Norwegian Nynorsk, Swedish, Danish and English.12:26
Kamionhmm] 12:26
Kamionok, let's just have the native one for now then12:27
pittiKamion: in any case I would only install the main support package with no fallbacks12:27
Kamionit'll actually be Norwegian and C, not Norwegian and English ;)12:27
Kamionpitti: sure12:27
Mithrandir(this is a gripe of mine currently as well, though)12:27
pittiKamion: since with no langpack you get C (so, usually English) anyway, is there really a need for l-p-en?12:28
Kamionpitti: English != C12:28
Kamionpitti: it makes a difference for en_GB sometimes12:28
pittiright, but approx. :-)12:28
Kamionplease don't kill l-p-en12:28
pittishould be good enough for debugging output12:28
mvo_seb128: it looks like n-c-b should just ummount (or ask for it) ?12:28
pittiKamion: no, I won't kill l-p-en12:28
Kamion11:27 < Kamion> ok, let's just have the native one for now then12:29
pittiKamion: for British/American folks, it really makes sense12:29
seb128mvo_: it's supposed to do, and that was working with the previous version ...12:29
mvo_seb128: ah ... thanks!12:29
=== jdub eats kangaroo fillet burgers for dinner
jdubyou guys can wait until april :)12:29
thomjdub: bastardo!12:30
thomjdub: oh, tesco sells timtams here now12:31
fabbionethom: since when you speak italian? ;)12:31
thomfabbione: since jeff eats kangaroo12:31
jdubthom: no way!12:32
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thomyeah, coffeee just got better ;-)12:32
jdubtea drinking pansy12:32
jdubwhere is Keybuk anyway?12:33
thompfft, hot drinks rights activist12:33
ajmitchmm, kangaroo..12:33
thomseb128: we should close #980, right?12:41
seb128thom: correct12:43
seb128thom: BTW are you going to fix #3042, I don't remember what you said about it12:44
seb128(and #3044)12:44
mjg59fabbione: You have crack12:45
fabbioneUploading via ftp linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-11.diff.gz: exiting due to user interrupt.12:45
seb128mjg59: have you planned to update dasher in debian ?12:45
mjg59seb128: I will do - there's currently a crasher bug in the latest tarball12:45
thomseb128: oh, right12:45
seb128so I'll wait :)12:45
seb128thom: cool, thanks :)12:46
fabbionemjg59: still nothing in my inbox...12:46
mjg59fabbione: #580712:46
mjg59Fix for ACPI regression12:46
fabbionei see12:47
fabbionedude.. can you reduce that patch to what is really needed?12:47
fabbionebah i guess i can apply all of it12:48
mjg59The other big bit of code is useful anyway - it makes things work with a slightly wider range of broken DSDTs12:49
fabbione  * More Matthew Garrett crack:12:53
fabbione    - Add patch stolen-from-head_acpi_fix_regression.dpatch.12:53
fabbione    (Closes: #5807)12:53
fabbioneyou get also mentioned in the changelog!12:53
fabbioneisn't that cool?12:53
fabbionefood time12:57
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fabbioneajmitch: are you around?01:15
ajmitchsorry about the late info01:15
fabbioneCONFIG_AUDITSYSCALL is not portable to all the arches01:15
fabbionei am going to keep it off for now01:15
ajmitchI haven't seen it being used yet01:15
thomfabbione: is the additional speedstep centrino support patch already in hoary, or is that part of todays upload? (just so i know to ping some bugs or not)01:16
fabbionethom: you mean the dothan_p4 fix?01:21
fabbionetoday upload01:24
thomfabbione: is it worth setting the default elevator to "cfq"?01:25
fabbionethom: i dunno.. mjg59 is the person to ask01:26
thomi think it makes a lot of sense for desktop/laptop systems01:26
mjg59Do any other distributions use it by default?01:27
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thomnot that i know of01:27
thomsuse might01:27
fabbionedoes that require me to change something in the kernel?01:29
fabbioneif so you have less than 10 days to test and let me know :P01:29
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fabbioneok a bit more serious now.. do i need to change something in the kernel?01:33
fabbionethom: i don't mind "breaking" it now01:34
fabbionebut later might hurt more01:34
fabbione(getting closer to my honeymoon and stuff like that)01:34
mjg59It can be done through the bootloader01:35
mjg59I've no idea what needs to be done to make it the default01:35
thomfabbione: i can't remember the magic, it's a .config change - we already build and ship cfq, i'd just like to change to using it by default01:35
thomi'll look in a minute01:35
fabbioneok let me check too01:35
thomand, as matthew says, you can enable in in your bootloader with "elevator=cfq"01:35
fabbionewe build and ship all the elevators01:36
fabbionebut no idea which one is set by default01:37
ajmitchanticipatory io scheduler, isn't it?01:37
Mithrandiriirc, yes01:38
thomyes, anticipatory is default01:38
thomcoo, the dist-upgrade of destiny is done01:39
pittiseb128: ping01:39
fabbionethom: there are some documentation bits in Documentation/block/01:40
fabbionesome of them a bit scary01:40
seb128pitti: pong01:43
fabbionethom: mind to clean the incoming queue on jackass from the linux-source bits i was uploading before?01:44
thom'spose i can01:45
fabbionedo you want the centrino speedstep fixes?01:45
abellifabbione: after a dist-upgrade on a k7, apt's asking for linux-386, why?01:45
thomfabbione: heh01:45
=== fabbione wistles while thom cleans
fabbioneabelli: no idea.. that's for sure not a kernel problem01:46
fabbioneabelli: you need to see what is pulling in linux-38601:46
thomrm linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-11.dsc01:46
fabbionethere should be also a piece of diff.gz01:47
thomfabbione: you should be good to go01:47
fabbioneok cool01:47
fabbioneUploading via ftp linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-11.diff.gz: 01:47
fabbioneon the way sir01:48
fabbionemjg59: your patch is in01:48
fabbioneincluding the new 31337 DRI drivers01:48
abelliwell aptitude wants them, but if he tries apt-get/synaptic it doesnt seem to be required01:51
fabbioneabelli: you need to see what depends/reccomends it01:52
abelliit seems nothing, since apt-get doesnt say anything about it01:53
fabbioneapt-cache rdepends linux-38601:53
abellialready tried :)01:53
elmoamu: ?01:54
fabbionehey elmo01:54
fabbioneelmo: when you have time, mind to add the Release files to sparc.u.c? otherwise d-i can't validate the archive01:54
elmopitti: done01:55
pittielmo: thanks. both?01:55
elmopitti: yeah01:55
fabbioneelmo: dists/hoary/Release01:55
elmoseb128: that's one heck of a jump - does that come under your gnome-exemption ?01:55
mvo_abelli: a recommends? aptitude installs recommends by default, apt/synaptic does not01:55
elmo[Updating]  pwlib ( [ubuntu]  < 1.8.3-2 [debian] )01:56
seb128elmo: yep, gnomemeeting is a part of the GNOME desktop and 1.2 needs this pwlib01:56
abellimvo_: no is not recommended..01:56
elmoseb128: ok, done01:57
abelliis "packages (new) that will be installed"01:57
elmofabbione: ok, one sec, I need to clear NEW, and it's far too early in the morning to be breaking my brain with rsync's include/exclude madness01:58
fabbioneelmo: "when you have time please"01:58
fabbionei don't need it right awat01:58
fabbioneaway even01:58
mjg59fabbione: Rock02:00
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fabbioneSteveA: patch-2.6.10-mh2.gz <- is this the release you are talking about?02:02
SteveAfabbione: not sure.  where do they hide their changelogs?02:02
fabbionei am on bluez.org02:02
SteveAcan you get to that google cache page?02:03
SteveAthis is an annoucement of a binary packaging of bluez for the zaurus02:04
fabbioneyes i can see it02:04
SteveAbut, it mentions support for the BT2000C CF card02:04
fabbioneAmbicom BT2000C Support. Thanks to tetron for spotting this had been included in the latest drivers02:04
SteveAso, i'm trying to find out what version of bluez includes that support02:04
SteveAand then request that that version is in hoary02:04
fabbioneBluetooth kernel patch 2.6.10-mh2 available -<02:04
fabbionethe one before is older than the post...02:04
danielsthom: i know, it's on my TODO02:04
fabbioneso there is not that much difference02:05
fabbionei am checking the patch02:05
SteveAdude, if you can get this going, i owe you several beers in canberra02:06
=== thom boggles at metacity
seb128thom: new version broken ?02:06
fabbioneSteveA: i am checking how intrusive is the patch02:06
fabbioneSteveA: remember we are going to commit to support it for 18 months :-)02:06
SteveAthe whole issue stinks, actually.02:07
thomseb128: seems pretty unhappy02:07
SteveAambicom had their BT2000 card, with ericson chipset02:07
SteveAwell supported by the kernel02:07
SteveAthen, they released another BT2000 card, essentially the same model number02:08
SteveAsold interchangably by amazon, retail stores etc.02:08
SteveAbut with different chipet, not supported.  and stopped selling the old card02:08
seb128thom: like ?02:08
SteveAso, many people looked into the ambicom BT2000, saw that bluez supported it, and received a *different* kind of BT200002:08
thomseb128: when i change workspace, i see every window i have open for a second02:08
elmofabbione: done02:09
seb128thom: we call that a crash :p02:09
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MithrandirSteveA: it'll be interesting when they can't pull off such stunts, since they will then be misleading the customer.02:09
seb128thom: could you attach it in gdb and give a bt on #5823 ?02:09
fabbioneelmo: rocking!02:09
thomseb128: sure02:10
fabbioneSteveA: i don't see anything in that patch that is related to that interface02:11
thomseb128: it's segfaulting every time i change workspace, yeah02:11
fabbionei guess i will have to give a bk check..02:11
SteveAfabbione: iirc, the card was already providing some kind of serial interface via bluez.  it needed hooking up in some way or other.  at least, that was one option to get it working. 02:12
mjg59fabbione: Good thing you don't work for a company producing an RCS, isn't it?02:12
fabbioneSteveA: hmm ok.. what if i cook up a kernel for you and test it for me?02:13
fabbionemjg59: Good thing i am not part of THAT team :P02:13
fabbioneSteveA: what kernel do you need? k7 ? 686? ppc?02:13
SteveAsteve@zeus3 ~ $ uname -a02:14
SteveALinux zeus3 2.6.10-1-686 #1 Tue Jan 11 03:24:24 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux02:14
fabbioneSteveA: ok.. that's an easy one :-)02:14
fabbionestay tuned for the next 20 minutes....02:14
fabbioneSteveA: in the meanwhile download a copy of linux-image-2.6.10-2-686_2.6.10-10_i386.deb02:21
fabbioneand  keep it handy for recovery...02:21
fabbionenothing should be THAT bad02:21
fabbionebut it's good to have02:21
SteveAi have linux-image-2.6.10-2-686_2.6.10-9_i386.deb in /var/cache/apt/archives/02:23
SteveAwill that do?02:23
fabbioneyes.. just copy it  somewhere02:23
fabbioneit's building now :-)02:24
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SteveAfabbione: i have a cdrom and ubuntu / knoppix cds for if it goes horribly wrong ;-)02:26
no0tichi, I've upgraded metacity now and it gives me problems02:26
fabbioneSteveA: ehehe ok02:27
no0ticwhen I try to move windows borders and title bar disappear and window remains where it is02:27
fabbioneno0tic: please file a bug with all the details02:28
no0ticit's rather unusable 02:28
fabbioneput it as a major problem02:28
no0ticit seems like it crashes and restart every time02:28
thomno0tic: bug already filed02:31
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thomno0tic: #582302:31
thomaargh, i've forgotten all my fluxbox foo02:32
seb128everybody else than me get this crash ?02:32
thomseb128: looks like02:33
seb128thom: could you rebuild the package on your box without debian/patches ?02:33
pittielmo: is it possible to install baz on rookery?02:34
elmopitti: done02:36
pittielmo: thanks02:36
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pittisivang: I will now alter l-s-il to depend on culmus02:38
pittisivang: any other dependencies?02:38
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no0ticI updated metacity bug02:38
seb128and I still don't get it :/02:39
seb128are you guys using an amd64 ? i386 ?02:39
thomi'm on amd6402:39
no0tick7 02:39
thombrb with unpatched metacity02:39
seb128thom: killall metacity, no need to brb :)02:39
no0ticI started metacity from tty1 to display :002:40
seb128do you have a backtrace ?02:40
thomseb128: i was running ion ;P02:40
no0ticevery time I try to do something with windows, it crashes Segmentation Fault02:40
seb128get a backtrace !02:40
seb128ps ax | grep metacity02:41
thomseb128: anyway, still happens without patches (i disabled simple-patchsys in d/rules02:41
seb128gdb -p <pid>02:41
seb128thom: ok, so I can bother upstreams if needed :p02:41
thomit is needed :P02:41
seb128thom: remove libglib2.0-0-dbg which is bugged and DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip noopt" debuild02:41
seb128for metacity02:42
seb128get a full bt and I'll kick upstreams :)02:42
seb128how many workspaces do you have guys ?02:42
seb128jdub: you get the crash too ?02:43
jdubhaven't upgraded yet ;)02:43
seb128so no need to give your workspaces :p02:43
=== Mithrandir has 10, but runs openbox. ;P
seb128thom, no0tic: theme used ?02:45
mvo_Kamion: the /casper dir is only on the live-cd, not on the install cd? (I need a way to not detect the live-cd as a ubuntu-cd)02:47
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no0ticseb128: it blocked X completly now, I wasn't able to switch to console02:48
seb128I got this too while attaching in gdb :/02:49
fabbionehem you might want to attach gdb from console and let it run02:50
no0ticI was attaching to gdb too02:50
fabbioneyes but attacching gdb will stop the process from running02:51
fabbioneyou need to write run or something02:51
fabbioneto resume all the operations02:51
fabbioneSteveA: uploading the new kernel.. 02:51
Kamionmvo_: yes, but it will be on the combination install/live DVD so I recommend against that approach02:51
Kamionmvo_: if I figured out how to get rid of /dists/hoary/main/binary-* from the live CD, would that do the job?02:52
Kamionis anyone else noticing grub-install segfaulting on amd64?02:53
MithrandirKamion: hm?02:53
mvo_Kamion: probably, yes. I use apt-cdrom ident to check for a valid cd. 02:53
seb128no0tic, thom: what keymap are you using ?02:53
Kamion/sbin/grub-install: line 516: 21053 Segmentation fault      $grub_shell --batch $no_floppy --device-map=$device_map  >$log_file <<EOF02:53
Kamionroot $root_drive02:53
fabbioneSteveA: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/linux-image-2.6.10-2-686_2.6.10-12_i386.deb02:53
Kamionsetup $force_lba --stage2=$grubdir/stage2 --prefix=$grub_prefix $install_drive02:53
mvo_Kamion: live-cd of today worked perfectly on my test-machine btw. contracts :)02:54
fabbioneSteveA: please test and let me know.. if it works i will add the patch to the final -12 release, but in the meanwhile please roll back to -10/-1102:54
no0ticseb128: it02:54
Kamionmvo_: congratulations should go to mdz for most of this stuff02:54
MithrandirKamion: Due to a bug in xfs_freeze, the following command might produce a segmentation02:55
SteveAfabbione: so, you want me to install this kernel image, see how the BT card goes, report on it, and then go back to the regular hoary one?02:55
Mithrandirfault when /boot/grub is not in an XFS filesystem. This error is harmless and02:55
Mithrandircan be ignored.02:55
KamionMithrandir: yes, it's not that though02:55
fabbioneSteveA: correct02:55
MithrandirKamion: ok02:55
SteveAokay.  downloading the .deb02:55
KamionMithrandir: /sbin/grub is segfaulting, not xfs_freeze02:55
MithrandirKamion: then "worksforme".02:55
KamionI can reproduce it, it's the 'setup' command02:55
MithrandirKamion: b0rken device.map?02:56
thomseb128: theme: mist; keymap: uk02:56
fabbioneSteveA: cool02:56
KamionMithrandir: just '(hd0) /dev/sda', it's worked for ages and it's only recently that it's started breaking02:56
Kamionstrace won't trace /sbin/grub, annoyingly02:57
MithrandirKamion: grab a 32 bit strace02:57
fabbioneKamion: is that on a sata disk?02:57
Mithrandirsince grub is a 32 bit binary.02:57
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Kamionfabbione: yes02:57
no0ticseb128: unfortunately I must go now...02:57
MithrandirKamion: I tried on a sata drive as well, fwiw.02:58
seb128no0tic: ok, I think thom will track the bug with me so that's fine, thanks02:58
Kamionamd64 strace tries, and does report that it's running in 32-bit mode, but falls over with 'ptrace: umoven: Input/output error'02:58
seb128thom: hum ... so how is that nostrip build going ? :)02:58
MithrandirKamion: yes, try with 32 bit strace.  That's normal for 64 bit strace.02:59
no0ticseb128: from gdb output: /usr/lib/pango/1.4.0/modules/pango-basic-fc.so  0xffffe410 in ??02:59
KamionMithrandir: ok03:00
thomseb128: wait a second :-)03:00
thomlets see what happens03:01
KamionMithrandir: 32-bit gdb needed too?03:02
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thomseb128: new bt up03:03
seb128cool, thanks03:03
MithrandirKamion: I don't know.03:03
Kamionargh, no libreadline in ia32-libs03:04
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thomseb128: i have that gdb session open if you need anything03:04
seb128thom: no real idea on it for the moment, no, thanks03:05
seb128thom: what keybinding are you using to switch workspaces ?03:06
=== fabbione has the feeling that for one reason or another the grub problem will be reassigned to the kernel
zulmost likely :)03:06
Mithrandirfabbione: you can reassign it further to gtk03:06
thomseb128: ctrl+alt+{left,right} arrow03:06
fabbionei need to find something else than GTK03:06
seb128thom: ok, definitively working here :/03:07
thomfabbione: firefox03:07
fabbionethom: RIGHT!03:07
thomi just got my "all bugs but firefox" query sorted, so i don't care ;-)03:07
fabbioneKamion: if grub doesn't work.. it's a firefox problem..03:07
Kamionit makes no sense to me, grub hasn't changed03:07
fabbioneKamion: when you try to run grub, does anything show up in dmesg?03:08
fabbionelike I/O error related to the hardware...03:08
KamionJan 24 14:00:24 localhost kernel: grub[21053] : segfault at 00000000555bcb30 rip03:08
Kamion00000000555bcb30 rsp 00000000555bc9fc error 1503:08
Kamionnothing else that I can see03:09
fabbioneKamion: is it writing the boot record on a plain disk or is it like a raid of somekind?03:09
MithrandirKamion: that's just a normal segfault, which the amd64 kernel logs per default03:10
Kamionordinary partition, no funkiness at all03:10
Kamionlike I say it's worked before03:10
Kamiona lot03:10
fabbionei know lilo crashes if i try to write a mbr and one of the disks in the raid is not spinning...03:10
MithrandirI can test on a couple of boxes more.03:10
Kamionit's one of my primary test systems, I've been using it since before warty with complete success03:10
fabbioneKamion: what about trying to use an old kernel and see immediatly that i am at fault for some obscure reasons? :P03:11
MithrandirKamion: what kind of hw do you have in the box?03:11
Kamionfabbione: I would if I could actually boot anything else03:11
fabbioneKamion: a warty install?03:11
Kamionwell I don't have a functional grub :P03:12
fabbioneKamion: but you can still boot from CD03:12
fabbionecan't you?03:12
KamionI'll fish out a warty/amd64 CD in a minute03:12
fabbioneor pxe03:12
KamionMithrandir: via03:12
fabbionei need to go and renew the vaccination from Brazil03:12
fabbionelater guys03:12
MithrandirKamion: same as I have -- EpoX 8HDA3+ is the mobo.03:12
seb128thom: ok, I get the crash in a flexiserver ... I'm away for a moment and work on that when I get back, thanks for the help03:15
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thomk, cool03:16
tritiumthis apparent metacity bug makes me again think we need something like apt-listbugs working with ubuntu's bugzilla03:17
Kamionapt-listbugs is pretty bogus in Debian though; lack of version tracking makes it difficult for users to see what bugs are in their version, and the upshot is that we end up with a lot of confused users thinking that stuff is fatally buggy when it really isn't03:19
Kamionfabbione: chrooting from a warty/amd64 CD works fine03:19
KamionI therefore conclude that it's a kernel bug :P03:19
Kamionfabbione: oh, note that I saw the segfault while chrooted into a Debian amd64 system too03:20
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fabbioneKamion: we have the same patch sets. so i think the problem is upstream, if you and Mithrandir can verify you are using the same hardware and what drivers (blabla) i can check if there is something on bk03:23
fabbionei need to leave now.. i will be back either later or tomorrow03:23
tritiumKamion, you're right about apt-listbugs, but a similar tool merits some consideration03:24
trey3Someone want to add something about the metacity bug to user channel topic please?03:26
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SteveAfabbione: i've booted into the kernel you made03:35
SteveAwhen I plug a usb BT adapter into the machine, i get a bunch of spew in /var/log/messages and it maps io ports and loads useful hci stuff03:37
SteveAwhen i insert the CF BT card in questions, nothing extra appears in /var/log/messages 03:37
SteveAfabbione: anything you want me to try out before i go back to standard hoary kernel?03:38
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=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*uname@*.exetel.com.au] by daniels
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels] by daniels
=== Mithrandir chuckles a bit at the "s/su/sudo/g" for spanish translations.
Kamionfabbione: *chrooted* into a Debian amd64 system> Debian kernel not relevant.03:47
danielsMithrandir: heh :)03:48
Mithrandir(not that I speak spanish, but I can imagine the destruction)03:50
MithrandirKamion: what kernel can you reproduce it with?03:50
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MithrandirLinux golem 2.6.10-2-amd64-k8 #1 Wed Jan 19 17:21:54 UTC 2005 x86_64 GNU/Linux03:50
jdubhaha: "The behavior itself isn't really a bug though, is it? The bug is not having a GUI to control the behavior." -- http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=576303:54
KamionMithrandir: kernel-image-2.6.10-2-amd64-generic-di version 2.6.10-10 on this here live CD03:54
Treenaksjdub: try unchecking the "per window" stuff in the gnome keyboard layout manager app03:56
MithrandirKamion: and that segfaults?03:56
Treenaksjdub: that "fixes" it for me03:56
KamionMithrandir: yes03:56
Treenaksjdub: ("separate group for each window")03:57
MithrandirKamion: weird; try with a non-di and k8?03:57
KamionMithrandir: I'm going to iterate; will take a while03:58
KamionMithrandir: what package version is yours?03:58
Mithrandirlinux-image-2.6.10-2-amd64-k8                                         2.6.10-1003:59
danielsTreenaks: you're fucking shitting me03:59
KamionMithrandir: hmm03:59
danielsthat is the most ludicrously ridiculous thing.  ever.03:59
Treenaksdaniels: well, it does something to remembering per-window state..04:00
MithrandirTreenaks: not here.04:00
danielsthat is absolute crack04:00
MithrandirTreenaks: but I'm using openbox.04:00
Treenaksdaniels: must be some other part of my settings then04:00
=== enrico_ [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Treenaksdaniels: but if I turn that flag on (per-window groups), all "lock" states are remembered per-window..04:01
Treenaksnot just the group04:01
MithrandirTreenaks: I can reproduce it regardless of per-window groups.04:01
danielsEZ GTK BOOG04:01
TreenaksMithrandir: then it's somthing else04:01
danielsMithrandir: turning per-window groups off fixes it for me also04:01
jdubthat's insane04:01
danielsMithrandir: maybe gnome-keyboard-applet or whatever fails to set it when not in gnome?04:02
Mithrandirdaniels: I'm using gnome, but I'm not using metacity.04:02
Mithrandirand it certainly manages to set such stuff as keyboard repeat rate.04:02
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=== enrico_ is now known as enrico
pittiKamion: I now created two scripts install-language-locales and remove-language-locales04:04
pittiKamion: I think I rather stuff them into 'locale' instead of duplicating them into all lang packs, right?04:04
pittiKamion: s/locale/locales/04:04
Kamionpitti: base-config should install language packs now04:07
sivangKamion: yay!04:07
thomMithrandir: you're a chunderbird user, right?04:12
thomcan you reproduce #4249?04:13
tritiumthom, I just swiched my preferred mail app to thunderbird, and I do get a new Compose window04:15
thomcan you comment it works for you then, please?04:16
Mithrandirthom: worksforme.04:16
=== trey3 [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
tritiumcurious - if thunderbird is already open, however, it opens the profile chooser04:17
tritiumrather than a new compose window04:17
Mithrandiryeah, that's a tb bug04:18
thomok, cool04:18
thomthanks guys04:18
Kamionupgrading from linux-image-2.6.10-2-amd64-generic 2.6.10-9 to 2.6.10-10 04:19
Kamionis enough to trigger that bug04:19
seb128daniels: here ?04:20
MithrandirKamion: but it's not in -k8?04:20
KamionMithrandir: haven't tried yet04:20
Kamionabout to04:20
danielsseb128: wassup04:20
seb128daniels: kind of bug flooded a lot, do you have time to figure what wrong with the xkb stuff ? 04:21
danielsseb128: did you upload a new gnome-keyboard-manager or whatever lately?04:22
seb128daniels: gnome-applets and control-center handle the xkb stuff and both have had a lot of changes recently04:22
rcaskey_I've got a list of directories and I'm looking for a way to match up the device icon with the directory, what's the best way to go about doing that with python?04:22
trey3Treenaks, possible metacity bug workaround (keyboard > layouts > uncheck "Seperate group for each window") didn't stop occurances here... (told I should say something)04:22
danielsseb128: bbbbbbbllllllllleeeeeeeeggggggghhhhhhhh04:22
danielsseb128: sort of, but especially wednesday's a holiday, won't get to it until thursday/friday myself04:23
seb128daniels: svu upstream is quite responsive and know that code, if you have a good description of the problem that's probably enough04:24
seb128daniels: ie: a way to reproduce and an idea of what's wrong ... so I can ping him with it04:24
jdubseb128: svu is responsive because he's paid by the russian mafia. that's not the kind of responsive we want to get involved with. :)04:24
seb128jdub: ahahah :)04:24
seb128(bah daniels probably doesn't fear the mafia :p)04:25
jdubthat's because he's a rentboy04:25
=== jinty [~jinty@78.Red-213-96-3.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsseb128: yeah, I'll have a chat to svu if you like04:26
danielsjdub: i am not thom04:26
rcaskey_is there a channel that would be a good choice for hal/python questiosn?04:28
danielsrcaskey_: #freedesktop04:28
KamionMithrandir: segfault with -k8 too04:33
MithrandirKamion: weird, I can't reproduce that.04:33
seb128daniels: thanks04:34
danielsseb128: no worries04:34
danielsseb128: tell me when you aren't drowning in bugs, and I'll reassign you some more ;)04:34
seb128ah ah04:35
thomdaniels: stop distracting him from fixing metacity04:36
danielsseb128: #1842 and #4343 are clearly gnome bugs04:36
seb128I've 'only' got 130 mails in my "my bugs" box this WE :p04:36
danielsthom: worksforme (i haven't dist-upgraded today)04:36
zuli would say you guys are swamped :)04:36
seb128daniels: everything is gnome bug, I know :p04:37
=== thom is currently running pwm2
thomit's an experience04:37
danielsthom: i hear good things about phluid04:37
mjg59daniels: Oh, I spoke to benh - he thinks it might need more doing than just setting the device to D304:38
thomdaniels: phluid is k-l33t04:38
danielsseb128: it looks like all this stuff can be traced back to new svu crack, which is kind of a relief for me04:38
danielsmjg59: oh?04:38
mjg59It seems that what the chip does when it's put into D3 depends on the register state beforehand04:38
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danielschristing shit04:38
mjg59He's got some whacked-out shit that ATI told him to do, and no real idea what it's doing04:38
seb128daniels: yeah, for me too04:38
=== mvo_ has a appointment in town, bbl
no0ticseb128: metacity bug?04:39
seb128daniels: have you read his blog ?04:39
mjg59So I need to get my hands on a T42 again. I might be able to get one for a bit next week.04:39
danielsmjg59: unfortunately the only Mobility documentation I have around is M6; all my other spec sheets are for desktop chipsets04:39
seb128no0tic: nothing I can real do about it, I've pinged upstreams with a full bt (thanks thom), downgrade if needed of wait for a fix (that's a devel branch that happens...)04:39
danielsseb128: anything in particular?04:40
mjg59daniels: Worst case, I just rip all the suspend code out of radeonfb04:40
seb128daniels: IIRC he described all the xkb changes in his blog04:40
no0ticseb128: can you give me some hints on how to downgrade?04:40
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seb128no0tic: get a old deb (perhaps in /var/cache/apt/archives/) and dpkg -i04:41
no0ticseb128: I've only the new deb in there04:41
no0ticseb128: :(04:41
seb128ok, so find somebody with the previous deb04:41
no0ticseb128: I'm feeling lucky ;)04:42
seb128no0tic: I'm sorry but I don't have any obvious fix atm, don't use hoary if you don't want to face some issues ...04:42
no0ticseb128: I like these issues :)04:43
tritiumno0tic, if the previous version was 2.9.3-0, I can get you the old .debs04:44
tritiumit was, I just checked the changelogs04:44
no0tictritium: thanks!04:44
tritiumhold on, I'll put them on a website for you04:45
tritiumthey're out of the pool already, I guess?04:45
no0tictritium: you're fantastic!04:45
tritiumno0tic, actually - looks like they're still in the pool04:46
tritiumat least on some mirrors04:46
no0tictritium: pool dir doesn't exist04:47
tritiumno0tic, I'm browsing it right now04:47
Kamionold debs> morgue.ubuntu.com04:48
Kamionyou need to know when the package was removed04:48
tritiumthanks, Kamion 04:48
no0ticthanks Kamion 04:49
trey3Kamion, 2.9.3 is still in repo...04:51
trey3(working fine with rest of 2.9.5)04:51
tritiumno0tic, did you find it?04:51
=== trey3 notes #ubuntu-devel isn't tech support :/
no0tictritium: no04:53
pittiamu: no worries, if all the konversation CVEs were handled, then it's okay. I just wanted to know whether they were handled at all :-)04:55
trey3ps, just to confirm (cuz I did it) ... metacity is issue... libmetacity 2.9.5 is still installed, but issue is gone...04:55
=== trey3 wonders if that should be on bugzilla :-?
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Kamiontrey3: I didn't check, merely noting a useful resource05:04
srbakeris it possible to completely disable OSS in warty?05:05
OddAbe19not to be rude or interupt or anything... but there are plenty of complaints in the Hoary forum about the Numlock key turning on and off (application based), is this going to be fixed for the hoary release?05:08
OddAbe19or taken away would probably be a proper term05:08
danielsOddAbe19: yes, but this is probably more appropriate for #ubuntu05:08
danielsin the meantime, desktop->preferences->keyboard preferences->layouts->separate group for each window being unchecked seems to fix it05:09
OddAbe19i understand, i was just interested in hearing it from developers though, to besure05:09
OddAbe19thanks daniels05:09
danielsdevelopers lurk in #ubuntu too :)05:09
OddAbe19thanks again05:10
Kamionthere are many bugs in hoary which will be fixed for release. :-)05:10
OddAbe19i know that... it just seemed to be more of a feature05:10
danielsa very, very, very misguided feature05:10
OddAbe19that got a few people confused05:10
=== thom waits for firefox to crash
thomand there it goes05:11
trey3thom, that soo better be amd64 or something... I'll cry if firefox on i386 is broken  :(05:12
danielsthom: boom05:12
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thomtrey3: nah, it's just libpr0n blowing up on a corrupt png05:15
trey3thom, thats bad too damnit  :(   can't sleep out pr0n  :o05:16
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thomtrey3: libpr0n is mozilla's image rendering  library, so yes it's bad05:16
trey3ahh... thats a real library name?05:17
trey3haha  *goes back to #ubuntu quietly*05:17
lamont_rpitti: buildds are stripping translations05:19
ericfProblem: `gksudo ls & gksudo ls & gksudo` makes my system hang... At least X. I kill it in tty1, problem solved. Weird command of course, but... double/triple clicking the update-notifier applet causes a similar situation. Maybe gksudo should prevent this interfering with itself?05:19
lamont_rnow I just need to get the aggregator written..05:19
jdubthom: mind if i upload a gecko-cil package that depends on firefox instead of mozilla?05:19
thomjdub: gfi05:23
jdubget f*cked idiot? thanks a lot!05:24
thomif you wanna read it that way go for it :P05:24
jdubthat'll make beagle happier when it turns up05:24
thomnow fix metacity 05:24
jdubi'm totally not going anywhere near metacity ;)05:24
thombefore i decide i like pwm enough not to switch back05:25
lamont_rthom: what did metacity do now, besides exist?05:25
thomlamont_r: don't upgrade today if you want to ahve a working system05:26
lamont_rthom: right05:26
thomlamont_r: crashes when you switch window or workspace05:26
=== mjg59 screams at Radeons
mjg59daniels: Thanks for your help - I think I have a pretty good idea how to approach this now05:27
danielsmjg59: no worries, dude :)05:27
trey3jdub, chicken  >: |05:27
Kamiontrey3: well volunteered to fix it05:27
trey3jdub, @ 'i'm totally not going anywhere near metacity ;)'05:28
=== trey3 runs away again
lamont_rdoes that mean that grabbing a livecd today is also a bad idea?05:28
danielsnice interface05:30
Kamionseems to be just a bit of a redesign; what's so much better?05:31
danielsKamion: very clean to look at05:31
jdubsmall, incremental improvements to bugzilla tend to make a big difference ;)05:34
haggaielmo: please can you allow python2.4-bsddb3 into universe05:35
thomthom     13440  0.7  0.0      0     0 pts/2    Zl   16:31   0:01 [firefox-bin]  <defunct>05:35
thomthanks, firefox05:35
sivangjdub: feh, that looks neat.05:36
sivangit eases on the eyes..05:36
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pittilamont_r: nice! But http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations is still 404 ??05:49
lamont_rpitti: like I said - the build's are stripping.  today is 'write the aggregator' day05:50
lamont_r(the thing that aggregates 12 buildd's into that url.05:50
=== lamont_r thinks someone should fix cyrus-sasl (no, not '2') to use something newer than libtool1.4
elmohaggai: huh?05:58
lamont_relmo: you saw that partimage should be PaS on amd64 (and removed from the archive)?06:00
=== lamont_r can't remember if he emailed that or not...
elmolamont: err, no?06:00
lamont_relmo: yeah - it's PaS on all 64-bit arch in debian - I added amd64 last week or so06:01
lamont_rit's belief that sizeof(long)==4 is rather ubiquitous.06:01
lamont_rso when you run partimage on amd64, it dies with a complaint that sizeof(DWORD) !=4, built with incompatible gcc or some such06:02
lamont_rthen again, given the archive/release model, it doesn't _really_ need to be removed from the archive... it can live on broken. :-)06:03
srbakermuwahaha.  it wouldn't be a work day if someone wasn't bitching about my choice of music06:04
danielsyo mdz06:05
=== srbaker jives in his chair to Merle Haggard.
tsengodd, latest blam binary is 1.4.1, but source is 1.6.006:05
elmolamont: is it rdepend clean?06:05
haggaielmo: I uploaded python-bsddb3 fixed to build on python-2.4 but heard nothing and assumed it was because of the new package name.  Is there no evidence of it arriving?06:06
lamont_relmo: dunno, didn't look at that06:07
lamont_rit's in universe in anycase06:07
elmoRejected: no source found for python-bsddb3 3.3.0-6ubuntu1 (python-bsddb3-doc_3.3.0-6ubuntu1_i386.deb).06:08
elmoRejected: binary uploads are not allowed - please only upload source.06:08
elmoRejected: python-bsddb3_3.3.0-6ubuntu1_i386.changes: upload is signed by 0xBE88B4B38D1F6639580FCCEE7B199D131997E7CF but is not i06:08
elmon the Binary Uploads keyring.06:08
haggaielmo: gah sorry.06:08
Kamionhm, it looks to me as if grub is segfaulting when it tries to call disk_read_savesect_func(), which is part of install_func()06:09
Kamionthe only reason I can think of for that to happen on a kernel upgrade is that the kernel is scribbling over user memory06:10
seb128thom: ?06:10
Kamiongrub does this weird thing with functions defined inside other functions that I don't understand06:12
danielswith the unichrome and i810 drivers coming entirely from HEAD of their respective development, we're still managing to keep our patchset against 6.8.2 under 100,000 lines06:14
daniels(of about 90,000 lines, about 50,000 is patches from X.Org HEAD, unichrome.sf.net HEAD, and linuxwacom.sf.net)06:15
thomseb128: sup?06:17
seb128thom: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=36473&action=view06:19
seb128thom: should fix the metacity crasher ... feedback welcome06:19
=== lamont_r heads home -back non in a bit
thomseb128: righto, will look in a second06:22
seb128thom: don't bother, I'll update it in the archive, that works here06:22
thomfair enough06:23
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tritiumthanks seb12806:26
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seb128tritium: np06:28
mdzthom: did you get my mail about fixing the text on bugzilla.ubuntu.com?06:29
thommdz: i saw your mail, and asked the MOTU folk for some suggested text, not seen a response yet06:32
elmomdz: shall I file the rest of the uninstallablle bugs?  I stopped after doing two06:32
mdzelmo: how many are there?06:33
mdzthom: hmm.  options I see are: create a new Bugzilla product (ugly, but easy), use a mailing list, or start using Malone06:33
elmomdz: at least 10, related to the lang pack stuff06:33
mdzhaggai, ogra, etc.: would it be useful to have a mailing list specifically for MOTU stuff?06:34
mdzelmo: yeah, sure06:34
Kamiondo we want to start putting language packs onto the CD?06:34
mdzat this point, it would probably be nice to start mailing diffs of britney output to ubuntu-devel06:34
mdzsince stuff needs to be installable06:35
haggaimdz: yeah, might be a good iodea06:35
elmoyou'll pick  up temporary buildd stuff, if you do that, tho06:35
elmoless if you only do it once a day or so, I guess06:35
mdzideally we would get notified if something stays uninstallable for a day or something, but that sounds like work06:35
jdubmdz: can we keep motu on -devel until there's enough to push it off?06:37
mdzI suppose06:38
mdzthere is a significant amount of stuff at this point where we need an "answer" from the MOTU team on something, though06:38
mdzand a dedicated mailing list is better for that kind of thing06:38
haggaiyes I agree06:38
jdubmdz: as in, "can we get blah updated", or...?06:38
mdzjdub: as in, "how do you want to manage bug tracking for universe?"06:40
mdzwhat resources do you need, etc.06:41
mdzhave to run, back later06:41
jdubnow there's a question we're supposed to have an answer for :)06:41
haggaijdub: how are the kubuntu lists? brewing nicely?06:42
jdubhaggai: will do tomorrow06:43
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thomseb128: where's metacity?!06:54
seb128thom: upstream rolling a release, I don't want to patch to repackage the new version 10 mins after that :p06:55
thomslacker ;-)06:55
seb128thom: BTW I've i386 packages on alioth if you want :p06:55
elmomdz: is there any chance of getting the bugzilla component list updated to match hoary or is that beyond our bugzilla-fu?07:01
elmosome of these mozilla lang packs depend on like 1.2 or 1.6 of mozilla07:04
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=== elmo considers filing a secondary bug on "-uk" locale packages: package name is entirely broken, kthxbye
elmoseb128: you going to fix openh323?07:11
seb128elmo: I didn't know that it was broken, under a pile of GNOME releases atm, but I'll check that07:12
elmoseb128: the pwlib sync broke it07:13
elmoI can just file a bug, in case someone who isn't playing one-man-gnome-army wants to fix it?07:13
Treenaksseb128: "one-man gnome army".. you need new business cards ;)07:14
danielselmo: -uk vs -gb?07:14
elmodaniels: yeah07:14
elmo-ca vs godknowswhat too07:15
zulseb128: i attached a patch to the gnome-panel buglet for #582207:15
=== Kamion gives up on the amd64 kernel vs. grub problem; it's not worth the four hours I've spent on it
Kamionmaybe it'll magically disappear with the next kernel revision the same way it magically appeared with this one07:16
elmodaniels: do I need to whine at you about lrm?07:16
seb128daniels: don't bother I'll fix it07:16
Kamionelmo: I thought 2.6.9 was being multiversed07:17
seb128zul: I've get the mail thanks, I've pinged an upstream about it, will be fixed in the CVS today07:17
danielselmo: you're going to say something involving the words nvidia_minor, ati_minor, etc, aren't you?07:17
danielsseb128: fix which?07:17
zulseb128: sounds good07:17
elmodaniels: good guess07:17
danielselmo: head -> desk07:17
Kamionoh, that l-r-m07:17
seb128daniels: s/daniels/elmo/07:17
elmoseb128: k07:18
danielsseb128: i'd need to get a haircut07:18
danielswell, grow my hair07:18
danielsand lose about 90% of my wardrobe07:18
elmoKamion: is there any reason to not just drop it?07:19
Kamionelmo: don't care; if we drop it we should probably drop linux-source-2.6.9 too07:20
elmomdz: ?07:20
danielselmo: there you go07:22
elmodaniels: seriously, I think that needs fixed permanently07:22
danielselmo: for bonus points, hack katie to remember the last *_minor and write a new girl to cause a fist to leap out of my monitor and beat the crap out of me when I forget07:22
elmoat least to break at source-build time07:22
danielselmo: yes.  ideas?07:22
elmoI've no idea - I don't want to look at the source package to see why it's doing that :)07:22
elmobut like you said, couldn't you record the last *_minor in a file and just abort if it hasn't been manually updated?07:23
danielswell, fglrx and nvidia have their own versions07:23
danielsand in the case of nvidia-glx, at least, we have namespace collision07:23
danielsbut knowing the major versions is *exceedingly* useful, not to mention more or less necessary for sane dependencies07:23
danielsmmm, I suppose that's true07:23
danielsor at least having to touch YES-I-HAVE-BUMPED-THE-REVISIONS to source-build, and always cleaning that file07:24
Kamioncan't it work out the ubuntuN from the source version?07:26
danielsKamion: no07:26
Kamioni.e. generate N based on the -M at the end07:26
Kamionwhy not?07:26
danielsbecause we revved nvidia to 1.0.6629 at l-r-m
Kamionevery time we increment -M, we also bump ubuntuN by the same amount07:27
KamionI'm not saying that the first part should be autogenerated07:27
danielsoh, hm07:27
danielsbut then you fall down with new upstream versions, no?07:27
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Kamionnew upstreams would require something to be manually tweaked07:27
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danielse.g. if we get a new version of nvidia-glx, the first release of that upstream version is 1.0.6743-0ubuntu23707:27
danielsmmm, ok.  interesting idea.07:28
danielsbonus points if you can come up with a patch while I'm asleep :)07:28
Kamioneither no problem, or you have REVISION-236 as ubuntuN07:28
KamionIIRC gcc-defaults has something like that07:28
Kamion# gcc-defaults 1.19 is the first version with 3.3.5 support.07:29
KamionREL_NO_335      := $(shell expr $(REL_NO) - 18)07:29
elmoKamion: what do you do on little WRT bittorrent-ing?  and how much would care if it moved to a new host?07:35
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elmoKamion: oh,and you might like to trash 'ftp.bak' at some point08:00
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Kamionelmo: I don't do anything WRT bittorrenting, I sort of assume somebody else will take care of it at some point :-/08:18
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Kamionelmo: yeah, waiting 'til I get round to reviewing/committing the anonftpsync changes08:18
elmoKamion: err, nothing at all??08:19
Kamionelmo: I don't generate .torrents for dailies any more, since they weren't all that useful; for releases I pester thom08:20
thomand then i cry08:20
elmowell, we can't do torrents for dailies anymore anyway, since torrent's moving to a machine without space for them08:21
elmoso thom only gets to cry at/near release time ;-)08:21
thomany more than that and the floods of tears would reach leeds08:23
Mithrandirthom: we could hook you up to a hydropower plant08:23
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pittiHi sivang08:51
pittisivang: I had to reboot my server (new kernel), sorry for the lack of notice08:51
sivangpitti: no prob, when did this happen?08:51
pittisivang: about two hours ago08:53
sivangpitti: oj08:54
sivangpitti: ok08:54
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seb128elmo: around ?09:34
elmoseb128: yah09:35
seb128elmo: do you know what's going on with metacity 2.9.8 ?09:35
seb128it's built for 2 hours according to the logs and not in the archive09:36
elmo  metacity | 1:2.9.8-0ubuntu1 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc09:36
seb128http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/m/metacity/ doesn't list it here09:36
elmoit's on mirnyy09:36
elmosigh, auckland is so hosed09:36
seb128in fact the current 2.9.5 "just crashes" for many people, so would be nice to get the update09:37
seb128oh ok, I was looking in archive ... I thought it was the first place to get the debs09:37
elmoboth mirnyy and auckland get synced at the same time09:37
elmothe problem is auckland is at load 40 24/7 atm, I'm in the process of dumping services off there as fast as I can to try and help09:38
seb128elmo: and glib2.0 2.6.1-3 sync (dunno if that's already on the mirrors) please09:40
Simiraseb128: after this yesterdays update, the Gnome-problem has reappeared. Just now it seems like the menus shows up, only it takes incredibly long time09:49
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seb128Simira: which one ?09:49
seb128Simira: there is like 400 GNOME problems in bugzilla09:50
Treenaksseb128: itsm the panel-doesn't-fill one09:50
seb128Treenaks: itsm ?09:50
TreenaksI think she means09:51
seb128Treenaks: the nautilus/vfs/panel lock ?09:51
Treenaksseb128: might be?09:51
ograseb128: pick the right one and win a prize ;-P09:51
elmo 20:51:24 up 10 days,  9:03,  1 user,  load average: 225.56, 227.69, 226.1109:51
elmook, so maybe not 4009:51
seb128Treenaks: I really hope it's not, gnomevfs is patched for this for a few days and nobody complained about it since09:51
Treenaksseb128: hm ok09:51
seb128Treenaks: if this patch doesn't work :/09:51
Treenaksseb128: now everyone's complaining about metacity? :)P09:51
seb128elmo: urg09:52
seb128Treenaks: yep :p09:52
Simiraseb128: the Gnome panel won't start problem ;p09:54
seb128Simira: nautilus too ?09:55
seb128you are uptodate ?09:55
trey3seb128, panel not dieing bug is fixed too today?09:55
Simiraseb128: yes09:56
seb128Simira: nautilus too ?09:56
seb128oh damn, if this is the lock in gnomevfs not fixed :(((((((09:57
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tritiumwhat's this about metacity 2.9.8?10:08
tritiumI thought the fix was in 2.9.5-0ubuntu210:08
trey3tritium, knew upstream version for RC110:09
trey3tritium, read link in bug report10:09
tritiumall right10:09
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pittiHi dilinger!10:33
pittihow are you?10:33
dilingerhi :)10:33
dilingergood, you?10:33
pittisame :-)10:34
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elmoseb128: auckland's back and up2date, FWIW10:37
seb128elmo: cool, thanks10:41
seb128elmo: BTW have you synced glib2.0 ?10:41
jdz_seb128: some of the gnome applets don't become transparent.  are these bugs?10:42
jdz_seb128: upstream?10:44
seb128the distro only package10:45
seb128hum, not only, but most of the code is from upstreams I mean10:45
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elmoseb128: it hasn't hit ftp.uk yet, I'll sync it when it does10:55
seb128ok, thanks10:56
elmouh, nm, it has.. done10:56
seb128cool :)10:57
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seb128elmo: could you sync easytag too ?10:58
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mdzelmo: ?11:23
mdzelmo: re: bugzilla, I'm planning to update the component list today11:23
sladentritium: ping11:23
dilingerubuntu strips out kernel firmware, same as debian, right?11:23
sladendilinger: and sticks it in a separate 'restricted modules' package11:24
thommdz: amd64 live cd worked like a charm barring the obvious Xorg not being able to probe screen res, which daniel is working on AIUI11:24
dilingersladen: is the firmware in userspace, or is it compiled into the kernel modules?11:25
mdzthom: I had the same problem, but my KVM seems to prevent DDC from working, so it always does that11:25
mdzdilinger: no, we ship firmware with our kernel11:25
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mdzdilinger: not built in, but in the same package, loaded by hotplug11:26
thommdz: ddcprobe uses real mode iirc; i ended up having to stub it ages ago so we could build ddcprobe on amd64 at all11:26
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dilingermdz: alright11:26
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sladendilinger: yup.  I defer to fabbione/mdz.  They actually know what they're talking about11:30
tsengjdub: ping. didnt mean to put you off about tomboy, but ive realized it has very poor QA and needs some fixing.. i was also looking at blam, new version uses gecko-sharp11:42
tsengjdub: you just uploaded gecko-sharp to build againt firefox, blam needs a bump to build-dep mozilla-firefox-dev as well11:43
tsengjdub: i can send you the source for that if youd like.11:43
ajmitchdilinger: do you know if anyone else is working on getting php5 debs?11:45
thominfinity is planning to look at doing it at some point in the not too distant, so he was saying earlier11:46
dilingeryea, i thought infinity already did some work on them11:46
ajmitchI'm just looking at the debs on dotdeb.org, they need a lot of work if they were to be used11:47
thomare they the yada afflicted ones?11:47
ajmitchnot sure, but debian/rules still has dh_make comments 11:47
dilingeri no longer use php, so it's not any sort of priority for me11:47
ajmitchI'm going to need php5 for a server soon, so I thought I'd take a look11:48
thomdilinger: are you jobless now or doing your notice period?11:48
dilingeri've got 4 more days left (after today)11:49
ajmitchbbl, lunch11:50
mjg59sladen: I've got a lead on the Thinkpad power consumption issues11:56
dilingermjg59: is this the sleep issue?11:56
elmomdz: cool, thanks.  the other thing was 2.6.9; are we planning to support it in hoary?11:57
elmoor rather, it's already in universe, but could we just drop it entirely?11:57
mjg59dilinger: Yeah, using too much power while asleep11:57
mjg59There's some registers that need setting to make it actually shut itself down11:58
mdzelmo: definitely not going to support it, if fabbione is OK with dropping it entirely, then let's do it11:58
elmook, will ask11:58
dilingeryep.  is there a spec sheet available for the card?11:58
mjg59dilinger: Nope.11:59
dilingerah.  fun.11:59
mjg59Not publically, at least11:59
mjg59There's actually code in radeonfb to do this, but (a) that only works on PPC at the moment, and (b) we don't want to require people to use radeonfb11:59
mjg59So I need to write a small driver...11:59

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