=== sm [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-059-218.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
enricogood morning!04:19
smmorning enrico04:21
enricomorning sm04:21
sivangenrico: morning04:21
enricoThanks for fixing the AllPages thing.  I've always been wondering what was the purpose of that page :)04:22
smoh good04:24
smit always annoyed me04:24
enricoI wonder how did it get there in the first place04:27
enricoI've never done anything about it because I thought there was a reason04:28
sivangenrico: what's up?05:07
enricosivang: hello!06:12
sivangenrico: wow, that was slow! ;-)06:13
enricoI was having lunch :)06:15
smnight all06:22
enricosm: night!06:22
sivangenrico: was it any good?07:40
enricoburp!  YES!07:42
enricolet's see if I can spell it07:42
enricowe started with the rice bowl, which got some special pork sauce on top to make it interesting07:42
enricothen, we had some chicken with chili and cucumber, nicely flavored with some herb07:42
enricoreally nice beef 07:43
enricothen dumplings with white wine vegetable (it's a special vegetable here: like the green wine vegetable, but white)07:43
enricofollowing, a really good hot-sour soup07:43
enricoand to finish, a sweet soup with sticky rice balls and dragon eyes07:44
enricooh, and also red beans in the sweet soup07:44
enricoFrout: guava and carambola and apple-plums (or plum-apples)07:46
=== enrico goes out for a pearl tea
=== Macbeth [~Macbeth@adsl-66-143-140-63.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
MacbethI am having a problem configuring network settings for ubuntu on my inspiron 8000 laptop. If anyone's not busy, perhaps they could help an ubunu newbie :)08:36
enricoUhm... the right channel for that is #ubuntu; if you ask here and you get an answer, then you must to write a wiki page about it :)08:44
MacbethOh, thanks for the info. That helps too08:45
MacbethI'm sure i'd write a wiki page relaying the help I got08:45
enricoHave you tried asking #ubuntu already?08:46
MacbethI am asking right now08:46
Macbeththey are saying "hmmm"08:46
MacbethSpeaking of wiki08:47
MacbethI read somewhere that you should _NOT_ say "yes" to the question "do you want ubuntu to do automatic internet installation"08:48
MacbethWell, i said yes. before reading that.08:48
enricosivang: are you around?08:49
sivangenrico: yep08:50
enricosivang: Macbeth is asking things that I don't know how to answer, but I suspect you do08:54
enricosivang: and if we win this game, Macbeth will write a wiki page :)08:54
MacbethThe wiki page will say how to get networking to work if I hot-plugged my PC lan card into my laptop after i did the installation of ubuntu?08:55
Macbethdevice manager says it is an unknown device. here are my card's drivers http://d-link.com/products/support.asp?pid=132&sec=0#drivers (but they are for windows)09:00
=== sivang is thinking
Macbethi found something09:05
=== enrico needs to leave now
=== Macbeth [~Macbeth@adsl-66-143-140-63.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #ubuntu-doc []
=== abelli [~abelli@adsl-84-222-38-253.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== dolce [~megatranc@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== dolce [~megatranc@] has left #ubuntu-doc []
=== douglas [~douglas@suporte2.unilestemg.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== abelli [~abelli@adsl-84-222-38-253.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== enrico_ [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
enricoDoes someone have a link to the Gnome User's Manual?04:07
enricoAnyone around?04:13
enricoI'm trying to understand if there is such a thing as the Gnome User's Manual or if it's just the collection of the documentation of the single applications04:14
enricojdub: you're probably the only one awake and in the list that can know this04:14
enricojdub: thanks a lot.  I'm writing an answer to Sean in the list, and I need to check things twice04:16
jdubi should read doc list, hey?04:16
enricojdub: probably not, unless you want a headache04:17
sivangjdub: and a very strong one...;-/04:17
sivangenrico: just read Sean's posts...Cannot cope with such bi amount of text!!!04:17
sivang(unless it's gtk code)04:17
enricoIt's not the text that is a problem, is the heat in the discussion04:23
enrico(to me)04:23
enricoI already have headaches in talking with the admins.  Having Sean shouting all the time doesn't really help me.04:23
enricoOh, well, I'll be on an airplane the next two days anyway04:24
ChrisHenrico: Sounds you have long time not read debian-devel. :)04:28
enricojdub: another question: if we work on vendor drops of appname/C/help, do we clash with the arch import the devels are working on?04:28
enricothat is, is that documentation also imported in hoary arch?04:28
enricoChrisH: you're right, I haven't~04:28
ChrisHenrico: But it's true... I also needed a personal secretary to filter out important parts from -doc04:29
ChrisHenrico: Looks like everyone else is just too slow for him.04:30
enricoOk, people.  Please someone check the last mail I sent to the list: it's short04:33
enricoIf that's true, we solved everything04:33
ChrisHWe solved the redundant work double-write problem with the vendor drops which in turn require that we have a 1.1.2 subversion archive. That one?04:35
ChrisH(from your report of the 23rd)04:36
enricoNo: a reply to the "Canonical are you serious?"04:40
enricoI'll post a link to the archives04:41
=== enrico searches
ChrisHfound it04:41
enricojdub: could you please have a read at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-January/001063.html ?04:41
enricojdub: if that is true, we solved all the problems04:42
ChrisHenrico: didn't 04:42
enricoChrisH: didn't?04:42
ChrisHenrico: didn't Sean say that symlinks are mandatory for having any kind of vendor drops?04:43
ChrisH(the enter key was in the way :) )04:43
enricoAFAIK that's required to pull in the docs from all the applications, then merge everything together04:44
enricoBut I may have gotten something wrong04:46
ChrisHI'm confused, too. I thought it would be complicated enough already with SVN.04:46
sivangI persoanlly don't have much problem to continue slow...take things one at the time,04:47
ChrisHIf I had no idea of vendor drops and didn't feel like writing huge workarounds I had probably just linked to the gnome user's manual instead of branding/using it04:47
sivanglet's even postpone stable docs for grumpy if canonical is busy with benefit bringing, more important stuff.04:47
sivangI don't mind.04:47
enricoChrisH: the idea is that who wants to do it does it; the rest, can work on the QuickGuide (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepQuickGuide) or packaging the documentation or something simple like that04:48
sivangmaybe after hoary is out, we would get some more resources and attention from people currently too busy for this - and it's _perfectly understandable.04:48
sivangas Matt noted on his email, a new project, invloves many operations, we cannot expect everything to be perfect without some pains ;-)04:49
ChrisHenrico: I was stuck a little waiting for the vendor drops thingy being resolved or dropped. Perhaps I should rather commit to the other documents.04:49
ChrisHsivang: especially if 1.1.1 is what we get then why don't we just use that...04:50
enricowell, it would help if someone stepped up and said "ehi, I'm working on <x> and I'm happy, if we get <x> and <y> done we're lucky, let's think about that later"04:50
enricoChrisH: warty has 1.0.604:50
ChrisHenrico: oops04:50
enricoQuestion is: who's active at the moment, and doing what?  I've been trying to push work on the QuickGuide but with no result (and I can't understand why).  Commits come from Sean and Plovs.  The only person with a clear responsibility is trickie working on the release notes04:53
enricoHow come noone's working at the QuickGuide?  Are there still problems?04:54
jdubenrico: i don't quite get the question, but:04:54
jdub- gnome cvs will be mirrored in arch04:54
jdub- the right way to manage changes is to create a branch off those04:55
enricoyou mean a branch off the arch mirror?04:55
jdubthat's what arch is all about :)04:56
sivangjdub: but svn and cvs also do branches right?04:56
enricoSo, if we want to fiddle with the documentation of the various applications, we need to branch off the development arch repo04:56
jdubi guess i should get on -docs and sort this all out04:56
sivang(what so special about it)04:57
enricojdub: that would help04:57
jdubsivang: sure, but everything will be in arch04:57
enricois the Gnome User's Manual also in arch?04:57
sivangjdub: ofcourse ;-)04:57
jdubnot yet04:57
enricojdub: ok, so we can make a vendor drop with the User's Guide and manage the rest (docs and manpages) in arch04:57
jdubbut we can prioritise it for you guys to test with04:57
enricojdub: cool.  This is what I was trying to say in that mail.  If you could step into it and confirm / clear things out, you'd do a really great thing04:59
enricolike, really great.04:59
enricojdub: I was considering replying to myself posting these last 20 lines of log; if you're going to reply anyway, I won't do that05:00
jdubnot on the list yet, happy for you to do that05:01
enricojdub: I'll do it, then you see if you want to add something (please do)05:02
enricojdub: also, I'll post the log until "< enrico> jdub: ok, so we can make a vendor drop with the User's Guide and manage the05:04
enrico                rest (docs and manpages) in arch"05:04
enricosince I imagine that you wrote "but we can prioritise it for you guys to test with" before I sent that line05:05
enricoChrisH, sivang: Do you have any idea why noone's working at the QuickGuide?05:11
ChrisHenrico: You know my frequent complaints... I can hardly follow Sean...05:12
ChrisHenrico: But currently I'm in bed with a flue and can't really do much that requires my brain. :)05:13
enricoChrisH: but Sean's not working at the QuickGuide at all.  That's been stabilized long ago: everything is known about it (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepQuickGuide), and nothing's going to change about how to edit it.05:13
enricoChrisH: ah, ok05:14
ChrisHenrico: I'm trying to get myself back in and understand everything.05:14
enricoChrisH: when you get better, if you have nothing to do, you can have a look at that: it's the last main thing on our original list of things to do for Hoary05:14
ChrisHenrico: so the quick guide has prio? no problem. I'll focus on that.05:15
enricoThat is: FAQGuide is finished and only needs packaging; About Ubuntu only needs a makefile target and Sean promised to do it; that's all we planned for Hoary...  Release notes are also taken care of.05:15
enricoThat, and the QuickGuide.  At least, that's what we thought at the BOF05:15
enricoChrisH: cool, thanks!05:16
enricoI'll be on a plane for a couple of days and jetlagged the next day, so I'm trying to make sure that there are not big problems in what were the original goals set at the BOF05:16
sivangenrico: I'll work with ChrisH to see what we can achive on that.05:18
sivangenrico: FAQuide only needs pacakgin?05:18
sivangenrico: and be registered under yelp?05:18
ChrisHenrico: I thought that the UG needed to be finished in time, too05:18
enricoChrisH: UG was not really on target AFAIK05:19
enricosivang: yes: FAQGuide, About ubuntu,  QuickGuide and release notes need packaging05:19
sivangenrico: Ok, I might find some time to try and package those, after some refreshment for my omf and scrollkeeper knowledge.05:20
ChrisHenrico: if I am still supposed to help doing the package I still need to get/research information about OMF and scrollkeeper05:20
ChrisHsivang: :)05:20
enricosivang: for the build, have a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamBuildingDocumentation05:20
enricosivang: there's a workaround for building in Hoary and Debian without having xsltproc try to download stuff from the net05:21
enricoChrisH: dh_installscrollkeeper05:21
enricoChrisH: and sivang knows everything about it :)05:21
sivanghehe, ChrisH : almost :)05:21
enricoChrisH: sorry: dh_scrollkeeper05:22
enricodh_scrollkeeper and dh_installdocs05:22
ChrisHsivang: you got the job, sir, welcome on board :)05:22
sivangenrico: can't we build without downloading stuff from the net? a package building requiring stuff from the net doesn't sound all *too* good to me05:22
sivangChrisH: I need help in understanding paclkages, first, I have been unable to follow this until some days ago..so we can work together? O:-)05:23
enricosivang: sure we can: have a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamBuildingDocumentation05:23
ChrisHsivang: good05:23
sivangenrico: hey, but it's under 15000 word doc..;-)05:23
enricosivang: yes, it's a short page!  And to the point!05:24
enricoI think we recently did a really cool job in the wiki05:24
sivangenrico: amazing, we've been lacking those in the short live of the docteam.05:24
sivangenrico: could you ask Seam to keep it that way? People don't/cannot afford to time to read __long__ docs..05:25
sivangit's unhealthy for the eyes :)05:25
enricosivang: I'm also very proud of http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepQuickGuide : have a look!05:25
enricosivang: I try to ensure that every page that comes out is short and to the point, and I must say that Sean did a pretty good job in most of those already05:25
enricoAnd if you still see scary pages, mail me and I'll fix them05:26
sivangenrico: ok, thanks :)05:26
sivangI got scary by the new ,that kicked my pages, DocumentationTeam, and some child pages of it that were rewritten by sean :)05:27
sivangit jumped from like 100wrds per page --> 1000 wrds per page..I'll mail you about those that still scare me, on the quick list:05:27
sivangenrico: amazing05:30
sivangenrico: you did a hell of a job, all the former scary pages are gone now.05:30
sivangincluding the application exchange protocol ro something05:30
ChrisHYes, enrico has proven that a Wiki is not necessarily an eruption of information hell. :)05:31
sivangI also liek that you removed the "there are several things and skills you must be proficient with before you can start working with the docteam"05:31
sivangI am really glad to see that line vanished 05:32
sivangI was starting to think I am not good enough for the docteam anymore...;-)05:32
sivangI am sorry to abrupt like this, but I have held it for some time now...goot to let it go.05:32
sivangand I also mean no offense to Sean, he has very good intentions, but the heat was too high.05:34
enricowell, the cool news is that we seem to be getting on a nice track05:37
enricowell, until last night :)05:37
enricoBut hopefully this last outburst is limited to Gnome things that one can choose not to hack on, and is going to be solved soon anyway05:38
sivangactually I would be interested in hacking on the gnome manual, but then I'd have to get together with baz, which might not be that bad :)05:42
ChrisHSean qualifies for a DD. :) Technically brilliant... just that some other aspects may come short. :)05:42
=== sivang is getting close and intimate with the gnome community upstream.
sivangso working on the g-u-g would seem something appropriate, given the time and space :)05:43
enricolet's see how that job turns out to be.  Sean has been really good in making complex tasks simple with really good quality (like the status tracking, or taking screenshots)05:44
enricoSo it's possible that once a way is settled with the rest of the developers, we can come out with a step by step guide that makes the thing manageable05:44
enricoBut that comes later.  For now, you're welcome to use the QuickGuide to jump back on the game!05:45
=== enrico needs to pack his things
enricoSee you in a couple of days!05:46
sivangenrico: bon voyage!05:46
ChrisHenrico: good flights05:46
ChrisHbtw... if 1.1.1 is nice to have for vendor drops... why can't we continue to use John's server for the next half year and update it to 1.1.1?06:28
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-195.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== sm-afk [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-059-218.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!