=== sm [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-059-218.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:19] good morning! [04:21] morning enrico [04:21] morning sm [04:21] enrico: morning [04:22] Thanks for fixing the AllPages thing. I've always been wondering what was the purpose of that page :) [04:24] oh good [04:24] it always annoyed me [04:27] I wonder how did it get there in the first place [04:28] I've never done anything about it because I thought there was a reason [05:07] enrico: what's up? [06:12] sivang: hello! [06:13] enrico: wow, that was slow! ;-) [06:15] I was having lunch :) [06:22] night all [06:22] sm: night! [07:40] enrico: was it any good? [07:42] burp! YES! [07:42] let's see if I can spell it [07:42] we started with the rice bowl, which got some special pork sauce on top to make it interesting [07:42] then, we had some chicken with chili and cucumber, nicely flavored with some herb [07:43] really nice beef [07:43] then dumplings with white wine vegetable (it's a special vegetable here: like the green wine vegetable, but white) [07:43] following, a really good hot-sour soup [07:44] and to finish, a sweet soup with sticky rice balls and dragon eyes [07:44] oh, and also red beans in the sweet soup [07:46] Frout: guava and carambola and apple-plums (or plum-apples) [07:46] s/frout/fruit/ [07:53] ahhhhh [07:53] :) === enrico goes out for a pearl tea === Macbeth [~Macbeth@adsl-66-143-140-63.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:35] Hey [08:36] I am having a problem configuring network settings for ubuntu on my inspiron 8000 laptop. If anyone's not busy, perhaps they could help an ubunu newbie :) [08:44] Uhm... the right channel for that is #ubuntu; if you ask here and you get an answer, then you must to write a wiki page about it :) [08:45] Oh, thanks for the info. That helps too [08:45] I'm sure i'd write a wiki page relaying the help I got [08:45] Cool!! [08:46] Have you tried asking #ubuntu already? [08:46] I am asking right now [08:46] they are saying "hmmm" [08:47] Speaking of wiki [08:48] I read somewhere that you should _NOT_ say "yes" to the question "do you want ubuntu to do automatic internet installation" [08:48] Well, i said yes. before reading that. [08:49] sivang: are you around? [08:50] enrico: yep [08:50] 'sup? [08:54] sivang: Macbeth is asking things that I don't know how to answer, but I suspect you do [08:54] sivang: and if we win this game, Macbeth will write a wiki page :) [08:55] The wiki page will say how to get networking to work if I hot-plugged my PC lan card into my laptop after i did the installation of ubuntu? [09:00] device manager says it is an unknown device. here are my card's drivers http://d-link.com/products/support.asp?pid=132&sec=0#drivers (but they are for windows) === sivang is thinking [09:05] http://support.dlink.com/faq/view.asp?prod_id=1226&question=DFE-690TXD [09:05] i found something === enrico needs to leave now === Macbeth [~Macbeth@adsl-66-143-140-63.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === abelli [~abelli@adsl-84-222-38-253.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dolce [~megatranc@212.100.67.229] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dolce [~megatranc@212.100.67.229] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === douglas [~douglas@suporte2.unilestemg.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.211.84] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@adsl-84-222-38-253.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico_ [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:07] Does someone have a link to the Gnome User's Manual? [04:13] Anyone around? [04:14] I'm trying to understand if there is such a thing as the Gnome User's Manual or if it's just the collection of the documentation of the single applications [04:14] jdub: you're probably the only one awake and in the list that can know this [04:14] www.gnome.org/learn/ [04:16] jdub: thanks a lot. I'm writing an answer to Sean in the list, and I need to check things twice [04:16] i should read doc list, hey? [04:17] jdub: probably not, unless you want a headache [04:17] jdub: and a very strong one...;-/ [04:17] heh [04:17] enrico: just read Sean's posts...Cannot cope with such bi amount of text!!! [04:17] (unless it's gtk code) [04:18] ;-) [04:23] It [04:23] It's not the text that is a problem, is the heat in the discussion [04:23] (to me) [04:23] I already have headaches in talking with the admins. Having Sean shouting all the time doesn't really help me. [04:24] Oh, well, I'll be on an airplane the next two days anyway [04:28] enrico: Sounds you have long time not read debian-devel. :) [04:28] jdub: another question: if we work on vendor drops of appname/C/help, do we clash with the arch import the devels are working on? [04:28] that is, is that documentation also imported in hoary arch? [04:28] ChrisH: you're right, I haven't~ [04:29] enrico: But it's true... I also needed a personal secretary to filter out important parts from -doc [04:30] enrico: Looks like everyone else is just too slow for him. [04:33] Ok, people. Please someone check the last mail I sent to the list: it's short [04:33] If that's true, we solved everything [04:34] reading... [04:35] We solved the redundant work double-write problem with the vendor drops which in turn require that we have a 1.1.2 subversion archive. That one? [04:36] (from your report of the 23rd) [04:40] No: a reply to the "Canonical are you serious?" [04:41] I'll post a link to the archives === enrico searches [04:41] found it [04:41] http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-January/001063.html [04:41] jdub: could you please have a read at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-January/001063.html ? [04:42] jdub: if that is true, we solved all the problems [04:42] enrico: didn't [04:42] ChrisH: didn't? [04:43] enrico: didn't Sean say that symlinks are mandatory for having any kind of vendor drops? [04:43] (the enter key was in the way :) ) [04:44] AFAIK that's required to pull in the docs from all the applications, then merge everything together [04:46] But I may have gotten something wrong [04:46] I'm confused, too. I thought it would be complicated enough already with SVN. [04:47] I persoanlly don't have much problem to continue slow...take things one at the time, [04:47] If I had no idea of vendor drops and didn't feel like writing huge workarounds I had probably just linked to the gnome user's manual instead of branding/using it [04:47] let's even postpone stable docs for grumpy if canonical is busy with benefit bringing, more important stuff. [04:47] I don't mind. [04:48] ChrisH: the idea is that who wants to do it does it; the rest, can work on the QuickGuide (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepQuickGuide) or packaging the documentation or something simple like that [04:48] maybe after hoary is out, we would get some more resources and attention from people currently too busy for this - and it's _perfectly understandable. [04:49] as Matt noted on his email, a new project, invloves many operations, we cannot expect everything to be perfect without some pains ;-) [04:49] enrico: I was stuck a little waiting for the vendor drops thingy being resolved or dropped. Perhaps I should rather commit to the other documents. [04:50] sivang: especially if 1.1.1 is what we get then why don't we just use that... [04:50] well, it would help if someone stepped up and said "ehi, I'm working on and I'm happy, if we get and done we're lucky, let's think about that later" [04:50] ChrisH: warty has 1.0.6 [04:50] enrico: oops [04:53] Question is: who's active at the moment, and doing what? I've been trying to push work on the QuickGuide but with no result (and I can't understand why). Commits come from Sean and Plovs. The only person with a clear responsibility is trickie working on the release notes [04:54] How come noone's working at the QuickGuide? Are there still problems? [04:54] enrico: i don't quite get the question, but: [04:54] - gnome cvs will be mirrored in arch [04:55] - the right way to manage changes is to create a branch off those [04:55] you mean a branch off the arch mirror? [04:56] yes [04:56] that's what arch is all about :) [04:56] jdub: but svn and cvs also do branches right? [04:56] So, if we want to fiddle with the documentation of the various applications, we need to branch off the development arch repo [04:56] i guess i should get on -docs and sort this all out [04:57] (what so special about it) [04:57] jdub: that would help [04:57] sivang: sure, but everything will be in arch [04:57] is the Gnome User's Manual also in arch? [04:57] jdub: ofcourse ;-) [04:57] not yet [04:57] s/Manual/Guide/ [04:57] jdub: ok, so we can make a vendor drop with the User's Guide and manage the rest (docs and manpages) in arch [04:57] but we can prioritise it for you guys to test with [04:59] jdub: cool. This is what I was trying to say in that mail. If you could step into it and confirm / clear things out, you'd do a really great thing [04:59] like, really great. [05:00] jdub: I was considering replying to myself posting these last 20 lines of log; if you're going to reply anyway, I won't do that [05:01] not on the list yet, happy for you to do that [05:02] jdub: I'll do it, then you see if you want to add something (please do) [05:03] ok [05:04] jdub: also, I'll post the log until "< enrico> jdub: ok, so we can make a vendor drop with the User's Guide and manage the [05:04] rest (docs and manpages) in arch" [05:05] since I imagine that you wrote "but we can prioritise it for you guys to test with" before I sent that line [05:11] ChrisH, sivang: Do you have any idea why noone's working at the QuickGuide? [05:12] enrico: You know my frequent complaints... I can hardly follow Sean... [05:13] enrico: But currently I'm in bed with a flue and can't really do much that requires my brain. :) [05:13] ChrisH: but Sean's not working at the QuickGuide at all. That's been stabilized long ago: everything is known about it (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepQuickGuide), and nothing's going to change about how to edit it. [05:14] ChrisH: ah, ok [05:14] enrico: I'm trying to get myself back in and understand everything. [05:14] ChrisH: when you get better, if you have nothing to do, you can have a look at that: it's the last main thing on our original list of things to do for Hoary [05:15] enrico: so the quick guide has prio? no problem. I'll focus on that. [05:15] That is: FAQGuide is finished and only needs packaging; About Ubuntu only needs a makefile target and Sean promised to do it; that's all we planned for Hoary... Release notes are also taken care of. [05:15] That, and the QuickGuide. At least, that's what we thought at the BOF [05:16] ChrisH: cool, thanks! [05:16] I'll be on a plane for a couple of days and jetlagged the next day, so I'm trying to make sure that there are not big problems in what were the original goals set at the BOF [05:18] enrico: I'll work with ChrisH to see what we can achive on that. [05:18] enrico: FAQuide only needs pacakgin? [05:18] enrico: and be registered under yelp? [05:18] enrico: I thought that the UG needed to be finished in time, too [05:18] (scorllkeeper) [05:19] ChrisH: UG was not really on target AFAIK [05:19] sivang: yes: FAQGuide, About ubuntu, QuickGuide and release notes need packaging [05:20] enrico: Ok, I might find some time to try and package those, after some refreshment for my omf and scrollkeeper knowledge. [05:20] enrico: if I am still supposed to help doing the package I still need to get/research information about OMF and scrollkeeper [05:20] sivang: :) [05:20] sivang: for the build, have a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamBuildingDocumentation [05:21] sivang: there's a workaround for building in Hoary and Debian without having xsltproc try to download stuff from the net [05:21] ChrisH: dh_installscrollkeeper [05:21] ChrisH: and sivang knows everything about it :) [05:21] hehe, ChrisH : almost :) [05:22] ChrisH: sorry: dh_scrollkeeper [05:22] dh_scrollkeeper and dh_installdocs [05:22] sivang: you got the job, sir, welcome on board :) [05:22] enrico: can't we build without downloading stuff from the net? a package building requiring stuff from the net doesn't sound all *too* good to me [05:23] ChrisH: I need help in understanding paclkages, first, I have been unable to follow this until some days ago..so we can work together? O:-) [05:23] sivang: sure we can: have a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamBuildingDocumentation [05:23] sivang: good [05:23] enrico: hey, but it's under 15000 word doc..;-) [05:24] sivang: yes, it's a short page! And to the point! [05:24] I think we recently did a really cool job in the wiki [05:24] enrico: amazing, we've been lacking those in the short live of the docteam. [05:25] enrico: could you ask Seam to keep it that way? People don't/cannot afford to time to read __long__ docs.. [05:25] it's unhealthy for the eyes :) [05:25] sivang: I'm also very proud of http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepQuickGuide : have a look! [05:25] sivang: I try to ensure that every page that comes out is short and to the point, and I must say that Sean did a pretty good job in most of those already [05:26] And if you still see scary pages, mail me and I'll fix them [05:26] enrico: ok, thanks :) [05:27] I got scary by the new ,that kicked my pages, DocumentationTeam, and some child pages of it that were rewritten by sean :) [05:27] it jumped from like 100wrds per page --> 1000 wrds per page..I'll mail you about those that still scare me, on the quick list: [05:30] enrico: amazing [05:30] enrico: you did a hell of a job, all the former scary pages are gone now. [05:30] including the application exchange protocol ro something [05:31] Yes, enrico has proven that a Wiki is not necessarily an eruption of information hell. :) [05:31] I also liek that you removed the "there are several things and skills you must be proficient with before you can start working with the docteam" [05:32] I am really glad to see that line vanished [05:32] I was starting to think I am not good enough for the docteam anymore...;-) [05:32] I am sorry to abrupt like this, but I have held it for some time now...goot to let it go. [05:34] and I also mean no offense to Sean, he has very good intentions, but the heat was too high. [05:37] well, the cool news is that we seem to be getting on a nice track [05:37] well, until last night :) [05:38] But hopefully this last outburst is limited to Gnome things that one can choose not to hack on, and is going to be solved soon anyway [05:42] actually I would be interested in hacking on the gnome manual, but then I'd have to get together with baz, which might not be that bad :) [05:42] Sean qualifies for a DD. :) Technically brilliant... just that some other aspects may come short. :) === sivang is getting close and intimate with the gnome community upstream. [05:43] so working on the g-u-g would seem something appropriate, given the time and space :) [05:44] let's see how that job turns out to be. Sean has been really good in making complex tasks simple with really good quality (like the status tracking, or taking screenshots) [05:44] So it's possible that once a way is settled with the rest of the developers, we can come out with a step by step guide that makes the thing manageable [05:45] But that comes later. For now, you're welcome to use the QuickGuide to jump back on the game! === enrico needs to pack his things [05:46] See you in a couple of days! [05:46] enrico: bon voyage! [05:46] enrico: good flights [05:46] Thanks!! [06:28] btw... if 1.1.1 is nice to have for vendor drops... why can't we continue to use John's server for the next half year and update it to 1.1.1? === maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-195.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sm-afk [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-059-218.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc