[12:01] <ogra> doko ... see my /msg ?
[12:01] <nakeee> 288948
[12:01] <mdz> nakeee: if others have reasons not to apply the patch, it's likely that the same reasons will apply to ubuntu.  What did glibc upstrseam say?
[12:01] <nakeee> it got merged with 180065 for a reason I can't grasp
[12:02] <nakeee> mdz: nothign whatsoever:)the debian guy was the only one answering
[12:02] <nakeee> and I don't think he understood what the patch suppose to do (probebly my bad report)
[12:02] <jdub> mdz: will ubuntu-meta include an ubuntu-live package for the live seed, or will we handle that differently?
[12:02] <mdz> jdub: if lamont's script uses the metapackages, we'll probably do that
[12:03] <mdz> if it uses Task:, I see no reason to make a metapackage
[12:03] <jdub> ok, thanks
[12:04] <mdz> speaking of which
[12:04] <mdz> Kamion: are you at all interested in using the metapackages in base-config, instead of Task: ?
[12:04] <mdz> I think it might help with that long delay while aptitude gets itself together
[12:06] <nakeee> azeem: found anything intresting?
[12:08] <smurfix> nakeee: off-hand I'd say that that problem should be handled in the kernel.
[12:14] <smurfix> To be more exact: If the data structures returned by the kernel contain garbage, the first step is to determine what exactly the correct contents should be, and then fix everything that doesn't conform. This doesn't seem to be happening here.
[12:21] <nakeee> smurfix: I'm not sure, it seems to be glibc which is assuming things 
[12:21] <nakeee> which are not written in the specs
[12:24] <zul> hey
[12:24] <smurfix> I don't doubt that your analysis is basically correct, but it looks like you're not fixing the underlying problem. I may be wrong -- don't have time to do a more detailed analysis. :-(
[12:25] <smurfix> nakeee: I do agree that there's a problem, readdir() running into an endless loop *cant be correct. :-/
[12:25] <jdub> thom: browser war insanity ;)
[12:25] <ogra> hehe....
[12:27] <thom> jdub: yeah, i know
[12:27] <thom> i really shouldn't have replied at all; but i couldn't resist the chance to slap firefux and galeon in one sentence
[12:28] <nakeee> smurfix: it's almost as bad as the fact the talk between kernel developers seem to get into endless loop leaving the bug as a 2 years old zombie:)
[12:29] <smurfix> nakeee: Has there been discussion of this on LKML?
[12:29] <jdub> thom: it was surprisingly frank ;)
[12:30] <thom> i am tired and my brain hurts from rmlC
[12:30] <nakeee> [01:15]  <jbailey> Ah, that's the bug that Linus and Drepper can't agree who's problem it is.
[12:31] <nakeee> I'm not sure but I guess jbailey knows what he is talking about:)
[12:42] <pitti> night everybody
[12:43] <ogra> nacht pitti
[12:43] <dholbach> i'm off to bed too
[12:43] <dholbach> sleep tight guys
[12:45] <thom> guten nacht
[12:46] <dholbach> :-)
[12:46] <wasabi> hmm. how does one delete a wiki page?
[12:46] <thom> (this is me attempting to make it bed before midnight)
[12:48] <nakeee> btw I was looking at the language packs
[12:48] <nakeee> which is an amazing idea btw
[12:48] <nakeee> but I think it should be seperated into enabled and localized
[12:49] <nakeee> it seems to be a very wanted feature
[12:49] <nakeee> some people get along better with english interface but want spellers and the like in their mother touge
[12:49] <nakeee> and some want everything including menus to be in it
[12:49] <nakeee> it should be fairly easy to do I think
[01:17] <elmo> cdimage.ubuntu.com is fixed
[01:17] <elmo> mdz: it wasn't, last I checked (this morning)
[01:18] <mdz> elmo: I looked through the list of rdepends in the latest germinate output, and the ones I checked seemed to have had their deps fixed already
[01:18] <elmo> rerunning cron.sync now
[01:18] <elmo> python2.2-dev                             | python2.2                       | python-pyxattr (Build-Depend)            | Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org>                                          |         1124228 |            3296
[01:18] <elmo> seems to be the remaining offender
[01:19] <mdz> ah, ok
[01:19] <mdz> I guess doko is nearly finished
[01:21] <sivang> seb128: bad netowrk?
[01:21] <seb128> no, crashed my box by following a bug in bugzilla
[01:23] <seb128> doh
[01:23] <seb128> #5887 
[01:23] <seb128> this umount just hang the box
[01:25] <sivang> seb128: hehe, anyway want to continue in gst?
[01:25] <seb128> not really, I feel like sleeping right now
[01:25] <seb128> if you have a quick question go for it
[01:27] <sivang> seb128: hrm, is there anything I need to do for my changes not to break the ubuntu_warning patch? :)
[01:27] <seb128> not change the file patched by it in the same area ?
[01:31] <seb128> btw time to sleep
[01:31] <seb128> night
[02:40] <daniels> i've only been asleep a few hours, and I have a hojillion messages.
[02:40] <daniels> obviously email does not respect public holidays
[02:41] <bob2> T~d26012005;D
[02:48] <ajmitch> gar I hate udev
[02:48] <ajmitch> the system is only booting when I add in an strace around udevstart in the init script
[02:48] <ajmitch> playing with selinux here..
[02:49] <tseng> ajmitch: do you have the latest kernel image?
[02:49] <ajmitch> tseng: yep
[02:49] <tseng> just added tmpfs security labels
[02:49] <ajmitch> this was doing it with the previous one
[02:49] <tseng> needed for udev i believe.
[02:49] <tseng> heh.
[02:49] <ajmitch> yeah, that's because i asked for it ;)
[02:49] <ajmitch> this isn't a problem with the labelling, but with other stuff
[02:53] <jdub> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5889
[02:53] <jdub> heh
[02:56] <tritium> that's the famous blue model
[03:05] <zul> heh...she is apart of the blue man group
[03:07] <tritium> heh
[03:08] <bob2> anyone else noticed ipw2100 in 2.6.10-10 is incapable of showing useful signal strength levels?
[03:09] <ajmitch> excellent.. uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root) context=ajmitch:sysadm_r:sysadm_t
[03:12] <stackpopper> First of all I'd like to apologise for asking in here, however, I was unable to find sufficient information regarding my problem either in forums, via google or in #ubuntu.
[03:12] <stackpopper> Basically I was wondering if you could advise me as to how I could hack the ubuntu release iso so that the install kernel as well as default kernel installed can be replaced with one patched to support the imac G5.  As I am assuming that by applying the new imac patches to a newer kernel would resolve these issues plaguing users attempting to install this.  I'd like to be able to contribute a solution to the commu
[03:12] <stackpopper> nity if at all possible.  Should I simply "go away and wait for the next release?"
[03:15] <farruinn> I don't know how much work that entails, but I do know that there will be a ppc_64 version of hoary
[03:15] <farruinn> which is out in 3 months =)
[03:16] <bob2> there will be?
[03:16] <stackpopper> This is a good thing.  Sadly my patience is uncontrallably limited and I feel an extreme need to get my hands dirty. 
[03:23] <stackpopper> power4 refers to the 64 bit IBM processor used in the G5's right? So I could initially replace all in install/power4 with happy alternatives? 
[03:24] <toresbe> ...
[03:24] <toresbe> there's an ubuntu install for the IBM power CPUs?
[03:24] <bob2> why?
[03:24] <bob2> debian works on it.
[03:25] <bob2> stackpopper: probably be best to ask on the developer list
[03:25] <stackpopper> bob2, right :)
[03:25] <toresbe> yeah, I know, just that the concept of a user-friendly distro like Ubuntu installed on a s390 is amusing
[03:26] <stackpopper> hopefully that would give install the thing then I could boot change root and compile a friendly kernel.
[03:27] <toresbe> "< newb-dood> yeah hi i just instaled mandrake linux on a highend z-series computer here at work (nsa) and where cna i get msn mesenger for linux?"
[03:27] <ajmitch> hah
[03:28] <bob2> aiui it's not too hard to swap out kernels, but I certainly don't know how
[03:28] <toresbe> "is 250 terabytes of disk enough for a mandrake install plz msg me"
[03:29] <mjg59> PLZ PROVIDE LINUX DISTRIBUTION FOR VMS HOT LOVING K THX BYE
[03:29] <toresbe> hahahaha
[03:29] <sivang> mjg59: hehe
[03:30] <toresbe> how do u install linux on cray computer plz msg me thx
[03:30] <mjg59> You know that someone will ask you that one day, right?
[03:30] <bob2> mjg59: a/s/l?
[03:30] <mjg59> UBUNTU SUPPORT RECTAL INSTALLATION MSG ME PRIV K THX
[03:30] <sivang> I wanna have naked people on my AlphaAXP please please make it work there
[03:30] <mjg59> AXP
[03:30] <mjg59> Haha
[03:30] <sivang> mjg59: hehehehe
[03:31] <sivang> mjg59:  :)
[03:31] <toresbe> will traed 0day warez for hlp installing ubuntu on cdc6700 msg me
[03:31] <toresbe> plz hurry computer using 500kwatts of power
[03:31] <zul> mjg59: i thought you never asked :)
[03:32] <toresbe> mjg59: Find the goatse man. He'll know how :P
[03:33] <mjg59> I'm not hot on plastic shards
[03:52] <srbaker> uh
[03:52] <srbaker> anyone here know how to change gvim's font?
[03:53] <daniels> mdz: what the fuck?
[03:53] <daniels> mdz: when did that regress?
[03:59] <mdz> dunno, haven't tried powerpc lately
[04:01] <daniels> mdz: the first two liens were about cirrus_laguna, but year
[04:01] <daniels> or cirrus_alpine or whichever
[04:01] <daniels> oh, I know how that regressed.
[04:01] <daniels> such a stupid driver. :\
[04:02] <mdz> I have no idea if it would have actually worked if it got the right driver loaded
[04:02] <mdz> but trying to load a nonexistent driver seemed pretty broken
[04:04] <daniels> it's not non-existent as such
[04:05] <daniels> convention had drivers as %s_drv.o, with libraries as lib%s.a
[04:05] <daniels> cirrus has cirrus_laguna.o and cirrus_alpine.o
[04:05] <daniels> which, predictably, matches neither of those two patterns.
[04:05] <daniels> i think nv has the same problem with riva128.o
[05:19] <farruinn> will the ppc hoary install disk allow you to mount hfs partitions?
[05:20] <farruinn> it would make it much easier to install hoary on oldworld macs
[05:56] <mdz> farruinn: the warty installer doesn't?
[05:56] <farruinn> no, which is a real hassle
[05:57] <mdz> the kernel modules are available to the installer
[05:57] <farruinn> hm, are you saying it would be as simple as a 'modprobe hfs'?
[05:57] <mdz> I'm saying that hfs.ko and hfsplus.ko are packaged in udeb form
[05:58] <farruinn> sorry, what's udeb?
[05:58] <mdz> udebs are the components which make up the installer
[05:58] <mdz> but all udebs are not loaded unconditionally; the installer decides which ones it needs
[05:59] <farruinn> ah, so how would I load the hfs udeb?
[05:59] <mdz> I would expect it to be loaded automatically, by the time you reach the partitioning stage of the installer
[06:00] <farruinn> ok, I'll boot into the install cd at some point and check
[06:00] <farruinn> but if it doesn't is there a way to do it manually?
[06:00] <mdz> yes, but it's not very convenient
[06:00] <mdz> it'd be something like, udpkg --install /cdrom/pool/main/l/linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6/hfs-modules-2.6.8.1-3-powerpc-di_0.71ubuntu12_powerpc.udeb
[06:00] <daniels> someone needs to extend hfs to the network or something
[06:00] <daniels> so you can have hfsnw
[06:01] <farruinn> that looks more straightforward than using chroot though
[06:01] <mdz> farruinn: Kamion is the person to talk to about this, but he won't be awake for several more hours
[06:02] <mdz> farruinn: failing that, you can send an email to ubuntu-devel
[06:02] <farruinn> ok, thanks for the help! =)
[06:03] <daniels> jdz_: you missed my awesome pun
[06:03] <daniels> er
[06:03] <daniels> jdub: ^^
[06:30] <jdub> what was your awesome pun?
[06:30] <jdub> aha
[06:30] <jdub> hahahaha
[06:56] <fabbione> morning
[06:57] <daniels> whattup fabbione
[06:58] <fabbione> just woke up
[06:58] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[07:06] <Mithrandir> good morning.
[07:07] <fabbione> lamont: ping
[07:08] <fabbione> hey Mith
[07:09] <jdub> is there any way of making pbuilder save changes after a login session?
[07:10] <fabbione> nope
[07:10] <Mithrandir> jdub: --save-after-exec or --save-after-login
[07:11] <Mithrandir> jdub: it's the hit on "save" in the man page. :P
[07:11] <jdub> ahr!
[07:11] <jdub> silly
[07:11] <jdub> silly me
[07:11] <jdub> i shouldn't have got lazy after --help ;)
[07:11] <jdub> thanks dude
[07:16] <ajmitch> hmm, only after reading this thread on dpkg+selinux do I see that the dpkg maintainer is a canonical employee... :)
[07:29] <fabbione> mdz: can we kindly promote silo -> main please?
[07:30] <fabbione> otherwise i can't buil d-i anymore
[07:30] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you saw my comment yesterday about not being able to test sparc last night due to forgetting to bring said sparc home?
[07:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no.. i don't keep irc scrollbacks
[07:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: don't worry about it
[07:31] <mdz> fabbione: sure, go ahead and add it to the seed archive
[07:31] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[07:38] <Mithrandir> thom: have I told you how much I hate that firefox loses her menus when you upgrade without restarting her?
[07:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: what is the tipical contents of a signing/$archive.check file? gpg --verify ?
[07:42] <fabbione> (for tla/baz)
[07:43] <Mithrandir> gpg --clearsign
[07:43] <fabbione> that's to sign
[07:43] <fabbione> but to verify?
[07:43] <fabbione> WARNING: no rule found for checking signatures from ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[07:44] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp/netcfg-1.07ubuntu3/debian]  cat ~/.arch-params/signing/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[07:44] <mdz> gpg --clearsign
[07:44] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp/netcfg-1.07ubuntu3/debian]  cat ~/.arch-params/signing/=default.check
[07:44] <mdz> tla-gpg-check gpg_command="gpg --verify-files -"
[07:45] <fabbione> thanks
[07:46] <fabbione> somebody already added silo
[07:49] <mdz> patch-67
[07:49] <mdz>     Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
[07:49] <mdz>     Add silo to base for sparc.
[07:49] <mdz> a long time ago
[07:49] <mdz> but it is not in main for some reason
[07:49] <mdz> probably germinate
[07:49] <mdz> yeah, definitely germinate
[07:52] <mdz> hmm, I forget what time the d-i daily build happens
[07:56] <mdz> jdub: new casper eliminates the network questions
[07:56] <mdz> jdub: press enter on the keyboard question, and it's non-interactive all the way to the desktop
[07:57] <mdz> complete with laptop notification icons
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: yeah.. i am adding all the other bits..
[07:57] <mdz> seems to mess up if the IP->name resolution fails
[07:57] <mdz> but otherwise working well
[08:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: even when you have three network interfaces like I have?
[08:01] <mdz> ah, just fixed that
[08:01] <mdz> Mithrandir: I've only tested with two
[08:02] <mdz> but I could put in a pcmcia card to test three
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: there.. committed to the seeds
[08:03] <fabbione> mind to check if i did something dumb?
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: the daily iso I downloaded yesterday got confused.  Or actually, I think it might just be confused about my wlan card, which is a bit peculiar.
[08:05] <dholbach> hai
[08:06] <jdub> mdz: eeeeeeee-lite
[08:06] <mdz> Mithrandir: how so?
[08:06] <jdub> mdz: current build?
[08:06] <mdz> jdub: no
[08:06] <mdz> needs a new d-i upload followed by a new live CD build
[08:06] <jdub> i'll rsync tonight then
[08:06] <mdz> i.e., needs manual processing by elmo
[08:06] <Mithrandir> mdz: it needs to have it's mode set explicitly, and I think it needs to have the ESSID set within the first five seconds after the driver loads.
[08:07] <mdz> Mithrandir: it makes a reasonable attempt to bring something up, and if it fails, it expects you to do it with network-admin or whatever
[08:07] <mdz> on my laptop, if the wired is plugged in, it uses that
[08:07] <doko> mdz: thank for removing the last python2.2. package tonight
[08:07] <mdz> otherwise it tries wireless
[08:08] <Mithrandir> mdz: yeah, so if we ever support my setup, I'd be a bit surprised. :)
[08:08] <mdz> doko: when elmo said there was only one package remaining, I could not resist :-)
[08:08] <doko> :)
[08:09] <mdz> fabbione: why sparc-utils in base?
[08:09] <mdz> rather than supported?
[08:11] <fabbione> mdz: because it is needed for the buildd?
[08:12] <mdz> fabbione: I think it should go in supported, and be added to hoary.buildd in debootstrap
[08:13] <mdz> unless it needs to be part of every installed system (and not just buildds)
[08:13] <fabbione> in theory it is required only to build
[08:13] <mdz> jdub: it doesn't reconfigure fontconfig yet, because that causes the cache to be regenerated which takes forever and eats memory
[08:13] <fabbione> basically every package
[08:14] <jdub> mdz: eh, bong
[08:14] <mdz> I think supported+hoary.buildd then
[08:14] <fabbione> mdz: ok.
[08:14] <mdz> jdub: if that's important, we'll need to add an environment variable to its postinst or something
[08:14] <mdz> assuming the cache doesn't actually need to be rebuilt
[08:14] <mdz> if it does, we're fucked
[08:14] <jdub> it doesn't
[08:14] <jdub> just a config file change
[08:14] <jdub> kinda silly that it does on reconfigure
[08:15] <mdz> once that's done, the casper bit is trivial
[08:15] <jdub> s/it does/it does it/
[08:15] <mdz> I actually already did it, and then had to undo it because it sucked
[08:15] <jdub> yeah
[08:15] <jdub> that's rad, dude!
[08:15] <jdub> woohoo!
[08:15] <mdz> next I'm going to fix the templates that say installer
[08:15] <mdz> and then we can do a proper announcement I think
[08:15] <jdub> cool
[08:15] <jdub> how are the custom cd docs going?
[08:19] <mdz> jdub: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo/view?searchterm=livecd%20custom
[08:19] <mdz> er
[08:19] <sivang> jdub: live ones? ;-) basically we're missing a a preseeing premier  and that's it - as I understood you just intall in the cloop fs your pkgs (this case locale and lang support)
[08:19] <mdz> remove the obnoxious search bit from the end
[08:19] <sivang> jdub: and that's it
[08:19] <sivang> all left is to translate..:)
[08:19] <fabbione> mdz: 112 should do it....
[08:22] <sivang> s/preseeing/preseeding
[08:23] <mdz> fabbione: regarding the installer stuff, you will need to ask Kamion
[08:23] <mdz> but it looks OK to me
[08:23] <fabbione> mdz: yup.. i will
[08:24] <ajmitch> looks like selinux stuff won't quite be ready by feature freeze, at this rate 
[08:24] <mdz> my d-i-fu is weak
[08:24] <ajmitch> udev works if I strace it with -ff, not with -f
[08:24] <ajmitch> looks suspicious to me
[08:26] <mdz> udev is race city
[08:26] <sivang> ajmitch: didn't you say that already someother time? ;-)
[08:27] <ajmitch> sivang: yeah, I was expecting that it'd at least work, if only poorly :)
[08:27] <ajmitch> I've been swearing at it a little too long now
[08:29] <mdz> I wonder if we can safely suppress the location chooser on the live CD
[08:29] <ajmitch> sivang: I might as well go back to rebiulding python packages :)
[08:31] <sivang> ajmitch: hehe, well, just making sure I'm not starting to get heluscinative..;-)
[08:32] <ajmitch> sivang: I mentioned the strace issue before, but only just found that it only boots if I hold my tongue right (-ff)
[08:32] <ajmitch> I thought the patch I applied from fedora cvs might have helped in some way
[08:33] <ajmitch> selinux could be something useful for the server team to look at :)
[08:34] <sivang> ajmitch: ah yes ofcourse, although I may not be the right person to look at technically speaking, I am interested in howtoing one thing or another, testing stuff when needed etc..I am not techincally skilled to review selinux integrated code, patches etc...
[08:34] <ajmitch> right
[08:34] <ajmitch> well I talk with jbailey fairly often, he knows my plans
[08:35] <sivang> ajmitch: cool
[08:36] <ajmitch> he's heard me ranting today about udev, in another channel :)
[08:36] <sivang> ajmitch: the glibc one?
[08:36] <sivang> ajmitch: I am also good at makng unimplementable, rather naive ideas :-)
[08:38] <ajmitch> yeah, he does glibc & other things
[08:40] <sivang> ajmitch: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DevHub ;-)
[08:40] <ajmitch> seen it
[08:40] <ajmitch> phpgroupware is good :)
[08:40] <sivang> ajmitch: yes, but WorldPilot works with zope :)
[08:40] <ajmitch> hmmph
[08:40] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: can't be, it's PHP :)
[08:41] <Mithrandir> sivang: is worldpilot still alive?
[08:41] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: now php isn't quite that bad..
[08:41] <pitti> Morning
[08:41] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[08:41] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: I suggest you ask pitti whether PHP is bad. ;)
[08:41] <ajmitch> heh
[08:41] <ajmitch> I'm not that brave :)
[08:41] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: or you could ask thom, fabbione or me.
[08:41] <Mithrandir> or willy
[08:42] <Mithrandir> or infinity
[08:42] <ajmitch> I remember the rants at linux.conf.au for & against php :)
[08:42] <Mithrandir> or daniels 
[08:42] <Mithrandir> (us being the apache maintainers)
[08:42] <ajmitch> yeah
[08:42] <Mithrandir> daniels: we're becoming a spacious team, it seem.
[08:42] <ajmitch> I think it might have been discussed at the debian miniconf there..
[08:42] <daniels> ajmitch: and thom buying rasmus on behalf of the apache maintainers
[08:43] <Mithrandir> buying?
[08:43] <daniels> ajmitch: yeah, thom was writing his a2 talk while i was rambling about x or something
[08:43] <daniels> Mithrandir: in the dunk tank
[08:43] <Mithrandir> ah
[08:43] <daniels> ajmitch: (my talk was also written in the session immediately before)
[08:43] <ajmitch> yea, I remember that
[08:43] <ajmitch> seeing people furiously writing during sessions
[08:44] <pitti> ajmitch: well, let's say the PHP developers have an "interesting" understanding of e.g. buzzwords like "safe mode" (which is not really safe) or "open_basedir restriction" (which can be easily circumvented) and things like that :-)
[08:44] <pitti> ajmitch: however, I agree that as a language it is not that bad
[08:45] <ajmitch> that's useful to know :)
[08:45] <pitti> mdz: ping
[08:45] <ajmitch> too much legacy code around, like VB?
[08:46] <pitti> ajmitch: hmm, I don't even think that this is the problem
[08:46] <pitti> ajmitch: as I said, as long as you don't rely on safe mode and similar things, but do all checking manually yourself, it's quite fine
[08:46] <pitti> jdub: here?
[08:46] <jdub> pitti: yo!
[08:47] <pitti> jdub: so what about this evo warty-update problem?
[08:47] <pitti> jdub: why I shall not just upload -3.1 into warty-updates?
[08:47] <jdub> so what do most packages use to write out crypt passwords in debconf?
[08:47] <jdub> pitti: 3.1 in -security, given the mdz/me thread
[08:49] <ajmitch> mdz: are you dropping python 2.2 & 2.1 support from packages now?
[08:49] <Mithrandir> jdub: use the "password" type; delete immediately afterwards
[08:49] <jdub> Mithrandir: oh, that's sensible 8)
[08:50] <sivang> Mithrandir: I linked WorldPilot for the mere nice futuristic features list it had, I am not sure weather it's alive or not though, although might be nice to clone or derive upon :)
[08:51] <ajmitch> sivang: plone-based?
[08:51] <sivang> ajmitch: zope 2.x compatibel, so says the package :)
[08:51] <ajmitch> are you sure you'd want a zope instance running on a devhub install?
[08:52] <ajmitch> if it's zope-based, I'd prefer it to work with CMF & Plone as well, if possible
[08:53] <sivang> ajmitch: it's a zope product you add
[08:54] <ajmitch> yep
[08:54] <ajmitch> not all zope products work with the cmf framework, but that won't matter to many people, I'd imagine
[08:54] <ajmitch> the SF page refers to exchange4linux
[08:55] <sivang> donwloaded it from here : http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/worldpilot/worldpilot-release-1.1.0alpha4.tar
[08:56] <ajmitch> yes, the home page link goes to the exchange4linux site
[08:56] <ajmitch> on sf.net/projects/worldpilot
[08:58] <sivang> ajmitch: weird, I went away and downloaded the package..
[09:01] <ajmitch> e4l requires postgres, and omniorb
[09:01] <ajmitch> I don't think there's any life in worldpilot now
[09:03] <pitti> jdub: hmm, so I'm not really opposed to put the -updates fix from -ubuntu3 into warty-security
[09:03] <pitti> jdub: but in general I agree to mdz, that's wrong
[09:03] <jdub> mdz and i appear to be saying the same thing
[09:03] <pitti> jdub: if somebody uses -updates, then security updates to these versions should be in -updates as well
[09:03] <pitti> jdub: no, you don't
[09:04] <pitti> jdub: mdz: 1 in main, 1.1 in -security, 2 in updates -> 2.1 in updates
[09:04] <jdub> ok
[09:04] <jdub> i see
[09:04] <pitti> jdub: jdub:  1 in main, 1.1 in -security, 2 in updates -> 2.1 in security
[09:04] <jdub> but that means that you'll have to do two security releases for any package that has an upadate
[09:05] <pitti> jdub: right
[09:05] <jdub> ok
[09:05] <pitti> jdub: it will get worse if we have two or three releases to support :-)
[09:05] <jdub> if you guys definitely want to do that extra work for it ;)
[09:05] <ajmitch> sivang: so how do I help out the ServerTeam? :)
[09:05] <pitti> jdub: I think I will upload it into -updates; it's just cleaner that way
[09:06] <pitti> jdub: I just wanted to make sure that we all agree that this is not principally wrong
[09:06] <jdub> so this means that, for every release, we'll be maintaining two security tracks for packages that have received updates
[09:06] <jdub> and then a number of releases on top of that
[09:07] <pitti> jdub: sounds like hell, doesn't it? :-(
[09:08] <pitti> jdub: however, once you have a verified patch, shipping it for another release ususally does not take the same time again
[09:08] <jdub> yeah
[09:08] <pitti> jdub: maybe except for the kernel
[09:08] <jdub> given it's the same upstream version
[09:08] <pitti> jdub: usually, -updates should not receive new upstream versions, right?
[09:08] <pitti> just major fixes
[09:08] <pitti> which can come as patch
[09:09] <pitti> jdub: Uploading via ftp evolution_2.0.2-0ubuntu3.1_source.changes: done.
[09:12] <jdub> :-)
[09:13] <jdub> i guess -updates may get new upstream versions
[09:13] <daniels> god
[09:13] <pitti> jdub: yeah, but it's not like putting OO2 into -updates when we have 1.1.3 in main (I hope... :-) )
[09:14] <jdub> ;-)
[09:15] <jdub> pitti: "mdz: linux-image-2.6.11 for -updates? fixes critical inotify bug"
[09:15] <jdub> bwaha.
[09:15] <jdub> <- asso
[09:16] <fabbione> jdub: ahha
[09:21] <pitti> elmo: postgresql 7.4.6-7 sync, please 
[09:21] <pitti> Hi mvo_ !
[09:21] <mvo_> hi pitti 
[09:26] <sivang> ajmitch: hmm,  if you can make let's say a package which when install on a "custome"(server) basic ubuntu system and turns it into a router/firewall, that'd be cool - this is one of the "server classes" I thought of :) just edit the wikipage with your findings. but hack, I am in no position to tell people what to do anyways so it's up to you :)
[09:26] <dholbach> morning mvo_
[09:26] <mvo_> hi dholbach 
[09:26] <ajmitch> sivang: aha
[09:26] <mvo_> new nick?
[09:26] <sivang> dholbach: morning
[09:27] <ajmitch> sivang: by router, you don't mean bgp/ospf with quagga, but basic routing & iptables?
[09:27] <dholbach> mvo_: had to... having 2 different IRC nicks on gnome.org and freenode.net was a bit stupid and people would have killed me, if i'd been danielh (for having to type daniels completely ;-))
[09:27] <dholbach> hi sivang :-)
[09:28] <sivang> ajmitch: I am using a custom made debian firewall/NAT/forwarde, and by now I managed to have it support all my bittorrent, ftp, IM and VoIP needs - would be nice to have one apt-get to do (and then even integrated into the livecd) and have it preconfigured, or ask in advance which "services" you want to box to allow as a starters.
[09:30] <ajmitch> right
[09:30] <ajmitch> sounds like it could be useful
[09:32] <sivang> ajmitch: I suppose that with the proper network magic, we could have a livecd for diskless router/NAT ubuntu machines. as I todl you, I like to dream :)
[09:32] <jdub> hrm.
[09:32] <jdub> sivang: check out gibraltar
[09:32] <jdub> sivang: would be good to port it onto an ubuntu livecd
[09:32] <jdub> maybe get them keen for building it on top of ubuntu
[09:33] <jdub> (they're debian-based atm)
[09:33] <jdub> gibraltar is nicely put together
[09:33] <ajmitch> sivang: it shouldn't be too hard with the good work that's been put into the livecd lately 
[09:34] <ajmitch> throw in a bit of traffic shaping, too
[09:35] <ajmitch> fun, gibraltar have some interesting licensing now
[09:35] <sivang> jdub: tnx
[09:35] <ajmitch> free for private use for up to 5 users
[09:35] <jdub> ajmitch: oh? :|
[09:35] <ajmitch> jdub: the source code is probably all still there
[09:35] <ajmitch> but they 'technically restrict' it to that
[09:37] <ajmitch> http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/opsys/linux/gibraltar/iso-images/copyright
[09:37] <sivang> ajmitch: even on the source code?
[09:38] <ajmitch> sivang: no, see the license
[09:38] <ajmitch> I'm guessing it's not restricted if you want to dig in & fix it
[09:38] <ajmitch> but cd layout is copyrighted
[09:38] <ajmitch> great, ETA of 4 hours to download this sucker
[09:42] <sivang> ajmitch: would you go and add this to the serverteam wiki page? ;-)
[09:43] <ajmitch> sure, once I get back from supermarket
[09:43] <ajmitch> need to grab caffiene :)
[09:45] <sivang> ajmitch: hehe, k
[09:46] <jdub> what's a relatively safe way of moving a config file in postinst?
[09:46] <Treenaks> jdub: daniels is the config-move-master
[09:49] <Mithrandir> jdub: conffile or config file?
[09:51] <Kamion> mdz,fabbione: sparc-utils looks to me like something for base; it's very similar to powerpc-utils which is in base (and the latter has to be, because stuff like yaboot-installer uses it)
[09:52] <Kamion> mdz: the problem with using the metapackages in base-config is that it makes it much harder to customise what gets installed
[09:52] <fabbione> Kamion: hey.. well i think we can keep it in supported.. nothing uses it other than special builds and buildd
[09:52] <jdub> Mithrandir: conffile
[09:52] <fabbione> Kamion: are the changes ok, otherwise?
[09:52] <fabbione> Kamion: so i can ask elmo to do the magic on the archive
[09:52] <Kamion> mdz: it's a lot easier for people to do ~tubuntu-desktop!foo!bar!baz!ubuntu-desktop than to figure out that ~tubuntu-desktop exists
[09:52] <Kamion> fabbione: what changes?
[09:53] <fabbione> Kamion: i did an update on the seeds as mdz suggested
[09:53] <fabbione> Kamion: also to the installer/ship seeds to get the udebs in main
[09:54] <fabbione> and the linux-headers..
[09:54] <Kamion> oh ok, let me check
[09:54] <fabbione> thanks :-)
[09:54] <Mithrandir> jdub: conffile moving is deep magic.  Or it might be documented in Debian's developer's reference.
[09:56] <Kamion> fabbione: do you really need both linux-sparc64 and linux-sparc64-smp in base? i.e. can you not pick one and use it on all machines by default, the way we do on other architectures?
[09:56] <pitti> elmo: ping
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: yes. we can use the UP one as default...
[09:57] <Kamion> fabbione: also having put stuff in base and ship you really don't need to (and shouldn't) put it in supported as well
[09:57] <fabbione> Kamion: i did a grep for some keywords and some stuff was already duplicated.. so i tought it was "standard" practise
[09:58] <Kamion> it's not, the current instances are mistakes
[09:58] <fabbione> ok
[09:58] <Kamion> people misunderstanding germinate generally
[10:00] <Kamion> basically anything in lesser seeds (base < desktop < ship < supported) is automatically part of greater seeds as well
[10:01] <fabbione> yes that was clear from the info files time :)
[10:01] <fabbione> Kamion: can i fix the seeds or are you already doing it while reviewing?
[10:02] <Kamion> fabbione: is it ok to move linux-sparc64-smp out of base, then?
[10:02] <Kamion> if so I'll happily do that
[10:02] <fabbione> Kamion: yes i think there should be no problem
[10:03] <fabbione> and if it does we can always revert back
[10:03] <fabbione> i am not too picky at the moment.. i just need to be able to build d-i :-)
[10:04] <Kamion> fabbione: done
[10:04] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks dude :-)
[10:05] <fabbione> Kamion: but killing the -smp kernel from the seeds.. won't that leave it in universe?
[10:06] <fabbione> never mind me!
[10:06] <Kamion> I didn't kill it, just left it in supported
[10:28] <fabbione> Kamion: did you have any possibility to test again the kernel/grub problem?
[10:29] <Kamion> sure
[10:29] <fabbione> Kamion: last thing yesterday was the kenrel on people and you confused on the one you tested :-)))
[10:29] <Kamion> yeah, but I tried it again and it failed ...
[10:29] <fabbione> ok
[10:29] <Kamion> although I can run through again just to make sure. what's the vmlinuz md5sum?
[10:30] <Kamion> 29de307fc813a97debea29a075cc13e0  /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-2-amd64-generic
[10:31] <Kamion> grub segfaults with that
[10:33] <fabbione> yup
[10:33] <fabbione> there is only 2 things left to check
[10:33] <fabbione>   * Unset CONFIG_ACORN_PARTITION_CUMANA.
[10:33] <fabbione>       . Add patch thaw_processes.dpatch.
[10:34] <fabbione> and after that it will be only BONG
[10:34] <fabbione> because we are talking readding mISDN and ibm-trackpoint patch (ps2)
[10:34] <fabbione> than we are back to -9
[10:34] <fabbione> the other changes are hppa/ia64 related
[10:35] <fabbione> and there is NO way they can affect amd64
[10:35] <Kamion> would it be worth trying to rebuild -9 on a current system?
[10:35] <Kamion> it could be toolchain-related
[10:35] <Kamion> (at which point I assume I'm fucked, but you never know :P)
[10:35] <fabbione> Kamion: indeed...
[10:36] <fabbione> i am already building -10 with less changes
[10:36] <fabbione> finished this.. i will try a clean -9
[10:36] <Kamion> ok
[10:39] <dholbach> Mithrandir: did you have luck with syncing mozilla-thunderbird-locale-* from debian?
[10:40] <ogra> morning
[10:40] <dholbach> hai ogra!
[10:40] <ajmitch> hi ogra 
[10:40] <sivang> ogra: morning
[10:40] <ogra> :)
[10:41] <ajmitch> hmm, almost like the ogra fanclub there
[10:42] <thom> morning
[10:42] <ajmitch> hi
[10:43] <thom> hrm, whats the deal with UVF for universe?
[10:43] <thom> really, i mean, can i stick some NEW stuff in universe now?
[10:43] <ogra> i dont think it applys thet....
[10:43] <ogra> there
[10:44] <fabbione> Kamion: 70c8851a3ac32dfc4c74c67d1d5756da  linux-image-2.6.10-2-amd64-generic_2.6.10-10_amd64.deb
[10:44] <fabbione> usual place
[10:44] <ajmitch> ogra: to new packages, or to universe in general?
[10:44] <ogra> thom: since i did one upload last week, i think its ok...
[10:44] <ogra> at least nobody complained
[10:44] <thom> righto
[10:44] <thom> heh
[10:44] <Kamion> fabbione: grabbing
[10:44] <thom> 'swhat i figured, but wanted to check
[10:44] <fabbione> hey thom
[10:45] <fabbione> hey ogra
[10:45] <ogra> hey fabbione
[10:45] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I haven't had the time to check yet.
[10:45] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ok
[10:45] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. building a clean -9 in the meanwhile
[10:46] <ajmitch> thom: you are lead of ServerTeam?
[10:47] <ajmitch> we were just talking before about a router/firewall package to quickly put together a NAT box & firewall
[10:48] <fabbione> ajmitch: that's quite hard...
[10:48] <dholbach> ajmitch: bastille is fine there, although it could need some ncurses->debconf- and some simplification-love
[10:49] <sivang> wheee
[10:49] <ajmitch> fabbione: hard in knowing the appropriate network settings?
[10:50] <fabbione> ajmitch: not only... also defining a "standard" setup to start with
[10:50] <fabbione> a router/firewall has tons of different implications...
[10:50] <ajmitch> the simplest being a home LAN
[10:51] <fabbione> ajmitch: that can still be a huge problem
[10:51] <fabbione> probably more complex than you think...
[10:52] <ajmitch> which is why we talked of integrating existing stuff out there
[10:52] <fabbione> Kamion: b7f6ec954d6b893b38d969f8f71b02ea  linux-image-2.6.10-2-amd64-generic_2.6.10-9_amd64.deb
[10:52] <fabbione> as next one
[10:57] <Kamion> fabbione: that -10 fails
[10:57] <Kamion> getting -9
[10:57] <fabbione> ok
[11:01] <ogra> ajmitch 
[11:02] <ogra> how did you build your packages ?
[11:04] <ajmitch> ogra: hmm?
[11:04] <ogra> i see only i386.changes files there
[11:05] <ogra> but we will need a source package for upload, so it will build on other arches too....
[11:05] <ajmitch> I was lazy & used debuild, why is that?
[11:05] <ogra> so use debuild -S ;)
[11:05] <ajmitch> it produces source packages anyway :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> actually no..
[11:05] <ogra> yup, but only for your arch ;)
[11:06] <ajmitch> pff, everyone uses i386, right? :)
[11:06] <Kamion> need to use debuild -S for upload
[11:06] <ogra> hmm, amd64 here.....
[11:06] <Kamion> the upload'll be rejected if it contains binary packages
[11:06] <ajmitch> Kamion: yes, I can't upload them so I didn't see a problem with it
[11:07] <Kamion> ajmitch: sure, but for the future :)
[11:07] <ajmitch> Kamion: in future I'd probably be using pbuilder for them :)
[11:07] <ogra> ajmitch: which still rquires -S ;)
[11:08] <ajmitch> ogra: yes, pdebuild does source packages by default
[11:08] <Kamion> there's no real need to use pbuilder for source uploads, except perhaps in incredibly scary cases
[11:08] <ogra> ajmitch: if i shall upload them for you, i will need a _source.changes (and friends) file 
[11:08] <Kamion> the source-package-construction step hardly ever depends significantly on the base system
[11:08] <ajmitch> Kamion: my hoary box has  anumber of patched packages now
[11:09] <Kamion> ajmitch: yes but it's very unlikely to matter
[11:09] <Kamion> I build most of my Ubuntu uploads on a Debian box, for instance
[11:09] <Kamion> since that's my main development system and it's awkward to switch it over
[11:09] <ajmitch> ok
[11:09] <Kamion> it matters for binaries, but ...
[11:10] <ajmitch> I've had issues with pbuilder on hoary, with the tarball not including gpg by default
[11:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I had fun switching vawad this weekend.  And I switched to another architecture while I was at it. :P
[11:10] <ajmitch> it causes all the package grabbing to fail :)
[11:10] <Mithrandir> but then, I'm one of the crazy people who think installing a system with wget, tar, ar and gzip is just fine. :)
[11:11] <ogra> jdub: please convice tseng for MOTU, he still hesitates ...
[11:11] <Kamion> it's too convenient to have a single system from which I can upload both to Debian and to Ubuntu
[11:11] <Kamion> without chroot madness
[11:11] <jdub> tseng: HESITATION IS FOR THE WEAK AND CONSTIPATED!
[11:12] <ogra> yeah !
[11:12] <Kamion> ajmitch: hmm, gnupg is not in hoary.buildd
[11:12] <Kamion> I wonder if that's a bug
[11:12] <Kamion> lamont: ^-- ?
[11:13] <ajmitch> ogra: ok, what else do you need? I've rebuilt those 3 as source packages..
[11:13] <Kamion> hm, I also wonder if lamont would care if I just uploaded it
[11:13] <Kamion> but he'll be up in a few hours anyway ...
[11:13] <ajmitch> brb
[11:14] <ogra> ajmitch: the files described in the _source.changes file....
[11:14] <azeem> Kamion: why does one need gnupg inside the chroot?
[11:14] <azeem> ah, apt-secure?
[11:16] <Kamion> indeed
[11:17] <Kamion> ajmitch: BTW, always run debdiff <old>.dsc <new>.dsc after building a source upload - then even if something on your system has affected it adversely, you'll know. :)
[11:18] <Treenaks> uh.. PGP global directory has signed my key? WTF?
[11:19] <fabbione> Treenaks: did you reply back to their emails?
[11:19] <Treenaks> fabbione: not that I remember.. maybe the very first one when I didn't know about the torrent of mails that was to come
[11:20] <fabbione> that's probably why
[11:20] <fabbione> i refused to answer back
[11:21] <Treenaks> Oh well... trust = "n" now
[11:21] <Treenaks> and I'm not signing it back :)
[11:21] <fabbione> clearly
[11:24] <Kamion> fabbione: you're gonna love this: -9 fails
[11:25] <fabbione> OH YEAH
[11:25] <fabbione> YES YES GO TOOLCHAIN!
[11:25] <fabbione> Kamion: and now.. who is the amd64 porting team leader?
[11:25] <Kamion> I'm going to grab real -9 from the morgue, just to make absolutely sure
[11:25] <Kamion> that would be Mithrandir
[11:25] <fabbione> fuckedandowned=$(whois "amd64 porting team leader")
[11:26] <fabbione> mail -s 'fix the toolchan dude' $fuckedandowned@youaredoomed.com
[11:26] <jdub> oh, elite
[11:26] <jdub> inotify 0.18 came out
[11:26] <fabbione> Kamion: good point
[11:26] <jdub> and gamin just got patches for it
[11:27] <Kamion> fabbione: the only amusing thing is, there were no toolchain uploads that I can see between -9 and -10
[11:27] <fabbione> jdub: i want to know what upstream says about it
[11:27] <jdub> fabbione: kernel?
[11:27] <fabbione> jdub: for inotify
[11:27] <jdub> fabbione: viro whinged again
[11:27] <fabbione> "whinged"?
[11:28] <jdub> fabbione: bitched?
[11:28] <fabbione> jdub: ah ok
[11:28] <fabbione> Kamion: hmmmm libc6?
[11:28] <Kamion> yow, could be I suppose
[11:28] <Kamion> if it's the fault of language packs I will laugh and laugh and laugh. :-)
[11:29] <ajmitch> ogra: .diff.gz & .dsc ought to be there for each
[11:29] <fabbione> linux86?
[11:29] <fabbione> Kamion: so will i...
[11:29] <ajmitch> ogra: do you have to review the whole .diff.gz for each package i give you? :)
[11:30] <fabbione> Kamion: and you know why i will laugh forever?
[11:30] <Kamion> fabbione: actually, though, the only glibc change in there was my fix to locales.config
[11:30] <thom> whiprush: thanks for the filechooser pointers
[11:31] <Kamion> fabbione: oh?
[11:31] <fabbione> Kamion: afaik the "you touched last" is still a valid rule :P
[11:31] <Kamion> ajmitch: I'd expect him to review the interdiff between the previous .diff.gz and the current one
[11:31] <ogra> ajmitch: i look over the diff and then i build a test package and try it out....if both seems fine i'll upload and get slapped by the guys that know more then me if there is still something wrong ;)
[11:31] <fabbione> and the libc upload is your ;)
[11:31] <Kamion> heh
[11:31] <ajmitch> ogra: great, are you able to review pnet as well? it's not python
[11:32] <fabbione> no seriously.. let's try with -9 from the morgue
[11:32] <Mithrandir> fabbione: hm?
[11:32] <ajmitch> Kamion: that's what I hoped, since it's a 1.9MB .diff.gz
[11:32] <Mithrandir> fabbione: what's broken today?
[11:32] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the kernel/grub thingy on amd64.. it seems related to something that is not grub or kernel..
[11:32] <Kamion> I'll confirm in a second
[11:32] <ogra> ajmitch: upload it, i'll look over it....if its to huge for me i'll forward the request to haggai....
[11:32] <Mithrandir> fabbione: fun!
[11:33] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes.. the amd64 porter will have some fun
[11:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: btw, I saw a weird thing on my home box when I booted it.. it looped in "loading stage1.5"
[11:33] <fabbione> oh but that's you!
[11:33] <fabbione> :P
[11:33] <ajmitch> ogra: the diff between the ubuntu revision & the debian one is small
[11:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes, exact same thing
[11:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: if you track that back I bet you'll find that grub segfaulted on install
[11:34] <ogra> ajmitch: if it survives my testing it'll be fine :)
[11:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: nope, didn't
[11:34] <ajmitch> it had better..
[11:34] <ogra> ajmitch: since i assume the debian version works.....
[11:34] <ajmitch> well yeah
[11:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: are you sure? grub-install doesn't bail out as it should when grub segfaults
[11:34] <ajmitch> I'm the debian maintainer for it
[11:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you'd only have noticed if you were reading the logs very closely
[11:34] <ajmitch> I'm putting off sponsorship since the DAM has only to create my account...
[11:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: fairly sure; I ran grub-install from the command line and couldn't see any segfault.
[11:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: strange; at any rate that same loop is why I noticed that there was a problem in the first place
[11:36] <Kamion> maybe it's related but not identical
[11:36] <Mithrandir> possibly.
[11:36] <haggai> jdub: are we nearly there yet? *hide*
[11:36] <ajmitch> hey haggai :)
[11:36] <Kamion> Mithrandir: as far as I can tell, grub segfaults when it tries to enter a nested static function
[11:37] <Kamion> at any rate a printf() just inside that function never gets reached
[11:37] <ogra> ajmitch: finally....
[11:37] <Kamion> oh, hmmmm. virgin -9 fails now ...
[11:37] <ajmitch> ogra: hmm?
[11:38] <ogra> * ajmitch grabs the CoC to sign
[11:38] <haggai> hi ajmitch
[11:38] <ajmitch> yes...?
[11:38] <Kamion> sorry fabio
[11:38] <ogra> ajmitch: yes :-)
[11:39] <ajmitch> considering that the wiki page says I need to sign after the CC meeting, the next one not being until the 8th..
[11:39] <ajmitch> I've got quite awhile to hassle you about uploads
[11:39] <ogra> ajmitch: do you plan to change your packages daily ?
[11:39] <ajmitch> probably not
[11:39] <ogra> heh
[11:40] <ajmitch> at most only every 2 days :)
[11:40] <ajmitch> but I plan to help out in the grand python transition
[11:40] <ajmitch> '10
[11:40] <ajmitch> sigh
[11:41] <ogra> ajmitch: so i'll take 2 days to review them.... :-P ... makes 3 uploads until you can go for it yourself :)
[11:42] <Kamion> elmo: please sync groff 1.18.1.1-6 from incoming; no new upstream version, just fixes man page licensing stuff
[11:43] <ajmitch> ogra: sure, I'll try & get a few done each day then :)
[11:43] <ogra> ajmitch: if the TB and CC members are in the same meeting, its probably possible to approve you earlier....and if not....its only 2 weeks, not eternity...
[11:44] <ajmitch> not like debian NM :)
[11:44] <ogra> NOT AT ALL !!
[11:44] <ogra> ;)
[11:44] <Kamion> we'll probably do a round of approvals in the next TB meeting
[11:44] <ajmitch> I've added myself to the CC agenda page
[11:44] <ajmitch> but it's at 5am local time, so I doubt I'll be there
[11:45] <Kamion> mm, let's clear the agenda from the last meeting first, otherwise you might get lost
[11:45] <ogra> ajmitch: its probably not necessary to be there (if i undrstood it right in yesterdays meeting)
[11:46] <ajmitch> hmm, I guess jeff is already approved by now then :)
[11:46] <Kamion> yes
[11:46] <ajmitch> that's useful
[11:46] <Kamion> OK, fixed up
[11:46] <ajmitch> thanks
[11:47] <ajmitch> do I need to be on the TB agenda or not?
[11:48] <Kamion> don't worry about it for now, I'll make sure it's mentioned
[11:48] <ajmitch> ok
[11:49] <ogra> hahaha https://www.redhat.com/archives/nahant-beta-list/2005-January/msg00064.html
[11:49] <fabbione> Kamion: so -9 is fucked too...
[11:49] <Kamion> yeah, sorry for the waste of time :(
[11:49] <Kamion> I'm walking back through revisions now, PROPERLY this time
[11:49] <opi> smurfix, moinmoin-twisted is still not there, moinmoin-data depends on Python2.4 :)
[11:49] <fabbione> Kamion: try -5 and -7
[11:50] <Kamion> -8 confirmed broken, trying -7
[11:50] <fabbione> or -8 in place of -7
[11:50] <fabbione> -7 is no point
[11:50] <fabbione> try -5
[11:50] <Kamion> ok
[11:51] <fabbione> -6 is known to be broken for other reasons...
[11:52] <lypanov> hi *
[11:52] <lypanov> does ubuntu package ruby in a sane manner unlike debian's current messup?
[11:52] <smurfix_> opi: working on it (among a bazillion of other stuff)
[11:53] <opi> smurfix, I'm not rushing you! :)
[11:53] <opi> smurfix, it's just a note, because I'm in office
[11:53] <lypanov> as in, is there a package that installs a *standard* ruby installation, or is it required that for any given application the user knows a list of over 10 packages that are normally just installed?
[11:53] <smurfix_> you can't, you're not paying me for it ;-)
[11:53] <thom> lypanov: doubt we've touched ruby at all
[11:53] <opi> smurfix, ;->
[11:53] <lypanov> thom: can i advise that you do so? :)
[11:54] <lypanov> thom: the ruby app developers are getting increasingly annoyed at debian's ignorance on the matter
[11:54] <thom> lypanov: we're not that interested in ruby. if you wish to become a universe maintainer and fix it, please do :-)
[11:54] <opi> oh, yes, polish Ruby! :)
[11:54] <lypanov> thom: and i'd love to be able to send a mail to the list saying that ubuntu *don't* screw up ruby
[11:54] <Kamion> can you elaborate on exactly what's wrong with the Debian packages?
[11:55] <lypanov> thom: well its a bug in the packaging, and if you care about your users (me ;)) then could you explain how i could get the bug through and the change made?
[11:55] <Kamion> we don't have any Ruby experts around that I'm aware of
[11:55] <Kamion> ideally, send patches to correct the packaging
[11:55] <lypanov> Kamion: ruby is a 'platform' that consists of many libraries that the debian packaging splits up heavily
[11:55] <Kamion> and hassle us until it gets considered
[11:55] <opi> it's like Python 
[11:55] <lypanov> kamion: this isn't a problem, but i don't think its really appropriate for applilcations to check that libraries that shoulld be installed by default are installed
[11:56] <Kamion> ok, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with splitting up libraries
[11:56] <lypanov> no. agreed. i like it
[11:56] <Kamion> why can't applications just depend on the libraries they need
[11:56] <Kamion> ?
[11:56] <lypanov> *however* there should be a meta package which installs the default ruby platform or something
[11:56] <ajmitch> lypanov: I saw someone talking about ruby packaging on planet.debian.net, perhaps something may come of it :)
[11:56] <lypanov> ajmitch: ah :) i'll read
[11:56] <azeem> it was just bitching as well
[11:57] <lypanov> oh :/
[11:57] <Kamion> hmm, IIRC some of the versioning being on crack with regard to ruby package names around the time of the 1.6->1.8 transition in sarge
[11:57] <Kamion> I wonder if that's saner now
[11:57] <lypanov> no point in bitching, however its really important that this gets fixed
[11:57] <azeem> lypanov: why don't fix it in Debian?
[11:57] <azeem> daf is a ruby guy I believe
[11:58] <ogra> lypanov: and if you want, you could always become a MOTU and help fixing it yourself :) (nad convince the upstream maintainer to adopt your changes)
[11:58] <lypanov> azeem: i'd prefer to get it fixed in debian yup, however it seems that nothing has been done about it. and i know that many people have made complaints though i'm not sure if formal
[11:58] <ogra> lypanov: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
[11:58] <Kamion> I don't see a Debian bug about i t
[11:58] <Kamion> why not?
[11:58] <azeem> ogra: do you actively promote forking Debian packages?
[11:59] <ogra> azeem: not really...
[11:59] <lypanov> Kamion: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=286400
[11:59] <ogra> azeem: but i'm looking for MOTUs ..... what about you ;)
[11:59] <azeem> lypanov: that's one month ago
[11:59] <Kamion> oh, source ruby-defaults, ok
[11:59] <lypanov> azeem: yup, i'm completely confused as to why there aren't more. this has been a *very* old complaint
[12:00] <lypanov> but as i was previous to ubuntu in no way using debian. it wouldn't have been my place to make a bug report...
[12:01] <azeem> lypanov: fair enough then
[12:01] <azeem> let's hope this gets sorted out eventually
[12:01] <lypanov> azeem: so best way would be to track the progress of this bug and if it doesn't get sorted out moan? ;)
[12:01] <Kamion> ok, I don't think it's appropriate for somebody who doesn't understand ruby to make this change, but please send a packaging patch to Debian bug #286400 and let us know
[12:01] <ajmitch> ogra: reminds me, who wants to do the mass filing for python2.4 support on those packages we change in universe?
[12:02] <Kamion> it would be best for this change to happen in conjunction with Debian, otherwise if Debian happen to pick a different name for the metapackage then we have to figure out how on earth to transition people
[12:02] <lypanov> Kamion: i'm clueless when its comes to packaging in debian
[12:02] <ogra> ajmitch: who ever made the change 
[12:02] <Kamion> lypanov: find somebody who isn't and who knows ruby, and get them to do it
[12:02] <ajmitch> ogra: ok
[12:02] <lypanov> Kamion: i'll give that a shot
[12:02] <azeem> lypanov: I'll talk to daf about it, he does the gnome-ruby packages and might know about this
[12:02] <azeem> need to talk to him anyway
[12:03] <ogra> ajmitch: thats one of your resposibilitys if youre a MOTU
[12:03] <lypanov> thanks azeem
[12:03] <lypanov> he probably understands the difficulty
[12:03] <lypanov> for the moment though
[12:03] <lypanov> whats the line to install all the dependancies of a given package?
[12:03] <ajmitch> ogra: that's ok, I don't mind :)
[12:03] <azeem> lypanov: it's basically for ruby developers who want to have a nice development environment, right=
[12:03] <lypanov> but *not* the package itself
[12:03] <azeem> ?
[12:03] <azeem> lypanov: apt-get install foo; apt-get remove foo :)
[12:04] <lypanov> azeem: well ruby is assumed as having a certain base set of packages and the ruby pkgs in debian don't
[12:04] <ajmitch> lypanov: apt-cache depends?
[12:04] <lypanov> azeem: so its not even about nice development environment, its not even possible to install/run some of the most trivial and commonly used ruby packages on debian currently.
[12:05] <azeem> lypanov: you mean some ruby packages do not declare the correct Dependencies?
[12:05] <azeem> that's bad of course
[12:05] <lypanov> azeem: in my installation details for my own package i had to explicitly say exactly which packages should be installed, i don't have to do any such thing for other distributions
[12:05] <lypanov> azeem: not debian packages. source ditros
[12:05] <azeem> hmm
[12:05] <lypanov> s/distros*
[12:06] <smurfix_> lypanov: How much space do these not-in-Debian standard packages take?
[12:06] <Kamion> so basically just a metapackage that installs everything in 'apt-cache showsrc ruby-defaults | grep ^Binary:'
[12:06] <lypanov> smurfix: highly minimal amount they are tiny
[12:07] <lypanov> Kamion: not sure what that command does ;)
[12:07] <Kamion> lypanov: run it and find out, it's not dangerous
[12:07] <Kamion> (purely display)
[12:07] <smurfix_> lypanov: so splitting them up was stupid in the first place. I hear elmo rant about that weekly.
[12:07] <lypanov> smurfix: yup
[12:07] <lypanov> smurfix: these are packages consisting of max 50kb of src code
[12:08] <lypanov> smurfix: it is really just plain silly
[12:08] <Kamion> unfortunately if we rearrange them totally in Ubuntu with respect to Debian then our merging job is huge
[12:08] <Kamion> which isn't feasible without a team dedicated to dealing with it
[12:08] <lypanov> but thats not required. i have no real problem with the splitup
[12:08] <lypanov> just that having a meta pkg that installs the default system would be lovely :)
[12:08] <smurfix_> lypanov: so become a MOTU and upload one. ;-)
[12:09] <lypanov> oh. i have a debian system here at disposable :)
[12:09] <Kamion> smurfix_: as I said above, this REALLY should be coordinated with Debian
[12:09] <Kamion> otherwise we're setting ourselves up for transition costs later
[12:10] <smurfix_> Kamion: I agree
[12:11] <Kamion> ruby-defaults is there so that ruby1.6 and ruby1.8 can be installable in parallel and 'ruby' can be whatever's currently sensible
[12:11] <lypanov> ah
[12:11] <Kamion> (in theory, at least)
[12:11] <opi> Kamion, what if ruby would be included in main?
[12:11] <Kamion>    ruby1.8 | 1.8.1+1.8.2pre2-3 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[12:11] <Kamion> it is
[12:11] <opi> oh
[12:11] <Kamion> not ruby-defaults though
[12:11] <opi> :-)
[12:11] <Kamion> (don't know why, presumably something cared about ruby1.8 but not about ruby
[12:11] <Kamion> )
[12:12] <Kamion> I think it's pulled in by vim
[12:12] <opi> in debian, there's a vim-ruby
[12:12] <opi> (iirc)
[12:13] <Kamion> yes, and therefore vim build-depends on ruby1.8-dev
[12:14] <Kamion> we actually removed that build-dependencies, but for some reason ruby1.8-dbg is explicitly in supported
[12:14] <Kamion> s/cies/cy/
[12:14] <Kamion> which I think was an oversight, we intended to have it all in universe
[12:14] <azeem> Kamion: there's a comment from (presumably) ruby upstream in #290705 who has all binary packages except -dev, -dbg,-elisp and -examples should be included
[12:15] <Kamion> oh, there's redland-bindings and swig1.3 too
[12:15] <Kamion> fabbione: -5 dies; next suggestion?
[12:15] <azeem> s/has/says/, d'oh
[12:15] <lypanov> azeem: sounds right
[12:16] <lypanov> the tcltk/tk stuff should also be optional i guess
[12:16] <azeem> lypanov: was there discussion about this on the debian-ruby list?
 wenn ich dich noch 3-4 mal fr MOTUs werben hr, schreib ich mich ein :-)
[12:17] <ogra> dholbach: become a MOTU !
[12:17] <ogra> dholbach: become a MOTU !
[12:17] <ogra> dholbach: become a MOTU !
[12:17] <ogra> dholbach: become a MOTU !
[12:17] <ogra> ;)
[12:17] <azeem> * Dafydd Harries [Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:15:28 +0100] :
[12:17] <azeem> > I think having a ruby-stdlib package is an excellent idea
[12:17] <dholbach> ogra: HAHA! :-)
[12:17] <azeem> there you go
[12:17] <ajmitch> ogra: you seem to be rather aggressively recruiting there
[12:18] <ogra> ajmitch: if it helps ;)
[12:18] <lypanov> azeem: how on earth do u get this stuff? ;)
[12:18] <azeem> however, the ruby-defaults maintainer had this comment:
[12:18] <opi> ogra, you need mind controling device
[12:18] <azeem> "apt-get install $(grep-available -n -s package -F source -X ruby1.8 | grep lib)"
[12:18] <azeem> lypanov: http://lists.debian.org/debian-ruby/2004/08/index.html
[12:19] <ogra> since haggai and sladen are very busy with some big projects, i'm alone with 15000 pkgs HELP ME GUYS !!
[12:19] <ajmitch> ogra: I don't think I was asked or encouraged much :)
[12:19] <ajmitch> you'll survive, I'm sure
[12:20] <ajmitch> 10 a day, and you'll be fine :)
[12:20] <azeem> heh, haggai managed to get off the train in time?
[12:20] <opi> ogra, copy'em from ftp.debian.org and throw into archive.ubuntu.com -- then pray -- maybe noone will notice ;)
[12:21] <lypanov> azeem: thx very much
[12:21] <ogra> opi: nah, i want MOTUs ;)
[12:21] <fabbione> Kamion: -5 too???
[12:21] <opi> ogra, my package-fu is weak, I'm trying to get a white belt soon :)
[12:21] <ajmitch> ogra: well I'm trying, honest
[12:21] <ogra> opi: great :)
[12:22] <ogra> ajmitch: you are nearly there... i want fresh flesh ;)
[12:22] <opi> ogra, first, what is Linux and where I can get my mineswepper? :)
[12:22] <azeem> ogra: training minions to do Debian work who are unfamiliar with it is *hard*
[12:22] <ogra> opi: thats a user question, ask on #ubuntu ;-P
[12:22] <azeem> I just tried that with a couple of people who got interested in Debian GNU/Hurd
[12:22] <opi> ogra, ok, will Minesweeper be in main? :>
[12:23] <ajmitch> yes, I've had a little time to get used to debian packaging
[12:23] <ajmitch> azeem: just porting work?
[12:23] <ogra> azeem: but finding people that already did a package and want adopt only their favorite should work i think :)
[12:23] <opi> ogra, yes, that's what I'm aiming for
[12:23] <fabbione> Kamion: did 2.6.10 actually ever worked?
[12:23] <azeem> ogra: great, so you have 15000 - 1 packages to look after :P
[12:23] <ogra> azeem: at least one less....
[12:23] <opi> azeem, nah, people have few fav. packages 
[12:23] <ajmitch> ogra: saying that you have 15k packages is fine, but people need to know where to start.. like do you have a MOTU task list lying around on the wiki?
[12:24] <ajmitch> I have my favourite packages
[12:24] <opi> azeem, and if that one is a metapackage, like KDE
[12:24] <ogra> azeem: to say it in german.... muehsam ernaehrt sich das eichhoernchen ;)
[12:24] <opi> azeem, :-)
[12:24] <martink> is there any way to get xtla (wonderful tla frontend for emacs) into universe?
[12:24] <ajmitch> such as dotgnu, gnue
[12:24] <Kamion> fabbione: kind of hard to tell, let me roll back to -1
[12:24] <ajmitch> martink: beg ogra 
[12:24] <Kamion> fabbione: note I only noticed this when I started trying to track down CD problems
[12:24] <fabbione> Kamion: 2.6.10-1  and next will be 2.6.9
[12:24] <Kamion> I'm sure I had at least one successful 2.6.10/amd64 installation, but ...
[12:25] <ajmitch> I'm not sure what the policy currently is on new packages into universe
[12:25] <ajmitch> apart from noone complaining yet about new ones
[12:25] <ogra> martink: send a request mail to hostmaster@grawert.net , i'll poke the right ppl
[12:25] <fabbione> Kamion: i only find hard to believe nobody (other than you) noticed the problem
[12:25] <lypanov> azeem: i've emailed the maintainer and the ruby list
[12:25] <Kamion> fabbione: Mithrandir's got a similar installation problem ...
[12:26] <ajmitch> oh my
[12:26] <lypanov> thanks to all who helped. regained faith in ubuntu :)
[12:26] <martink> ogra: cool, I'll do that 
[12:26] <ajmitch> xtla is in ams' home dir..
[12:26] <lypanov> (not that i ever lost it :P)
[12:26] <ajmitch> or at least it was
[12:26] <lypanov> but the reaction here was a lot nicer than anything i would have received on the debian channels :/
[12:27] <ogra> ok, i'm on my way to the office now...ciao, later....
[12:27] <lypanov> so thanks, thom, smurfix, Kamion, opi, ajmitch, azeem, ogra, hope i got everyone :)
[12:27] <Kamion> well, if you mean #debian, that's worthless and not really representative ...
[12:27] <Kamion> at least not of developers
[12:27] <opi> Kamion, nor for community
[12:28] <lypanov> Kamion: right however finding the devel room is also not exactly easy. whereas you guys asked me to join here once :)
[12:28] <opi> Kamion, because #debian.pl, ie is very helpful and nice
[12:28] <Kamion> lypanov: it's the same naming scheme :)
[12:29] <lypanov> Kamion: okay. maybe they would have also been nice but last time i got shouted at when on there :(
[12:29] <Kamion> well, depends, I only bother with #debian-devel on OFTC
[12:29] <Kamion> these days
[12:29] <lypanov> ah.k didn't try that :)
[12:30] <lypanov> like #perl on perl.org is useful but awful here :)
[12:39] <Kamion> urr. 2.6.10-1 fails ...
[12:41] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, the cutoff appears to be between 2.6.9-11 and 2.6.10-1 :-(
[12:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hooray :(
[12:42] <Kamion> fabbione: see http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/01/msg00182.html, same problem
[12:45] <elmo> pitti: done
[12:45] <ajmitch> hi elmo
[12:45] <pitti> Hi elmo, thanks
[12:46] <elmo> ajmitch: hi
[12:46] <opi> mdz, I don't have transcript from this upgrade anymore. After update this problem was gone.
[12:49] <Kamion> fabbione: I've mailed some details to that thread
[12:53] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks!
[12:56] <thom> opi: i'm gonna resolve invalid on that bug then; i've not seen it at all and no-one else has reported it
[12:57] <opi> thom, sorry I didn't provide more details
[12:57] <opi> thom, I was sure that this package is broken due UTF string, and it keeps firefox from upgrading
[12:57] <thom> the paste you provided was from openoffice
[12:58] <thom> so it shouldn't affect firefox at all
[12:58] <opi> yeah, but it keeped Firefox back :)
[12:58] <opi> actualy I removed Firefox, and then installed it again
[12:59] <opi> the error was still there, but apt-get -f install managed to finish
[01:00] <eruin> all my firefox tabs show the last opened address :P
[01:00] <fabbione> Kamion: is it an option for you to try 2.6.11-rc2-bk3 from kernel.org?
[01:01] <fabbione> Kamion: if you want i can build it for you...
[01:02] <eruin> I'm sure I saw an applet for ubuntu-updater getting installed.. am I wrong?
[01:05] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, I can try that - that'd be cool
[01:05] <eruin> ie what exactly is update-notifier?
[01:06] <fabbione> Kamion: ok... i will try what i can
[01:06] <Kamion> thanks
[01:07] <thom> crikey netapplet (the applet edition) mostly works
[01:08] <jdub> thom: you converted it, or added it's stuff to netstatus?
[01:08] <thom> converted
[01:08] <fabbione> Connecting to www.kernel.org[204.152.189.116] :80... failed: Connection refused.
[01:08] <fabbione> DOH!
[01:08] <Kamion> hmm, there's some weird code in grub that calls the _llseek() syscall by hand
[01:08] <Kamion> I wonder if the numbers changed or something
[01:09] <jdub> thom: what do you think about merging them?
[01:09] <thom> jdub: waste of effort, they're two very different code bases - esp if we're binning both as soon as we hit bendy
[01:09] <jdub> thom: true
[01:09] <jdub> thom: though it would be nice to do just one applet replace
[01:09] <mvo_> eruin: it sits in the background and tells you when updated packages are available (as a small icon in the notification area)
[01:10] <thom> jdub: true
[01:10] <eruin> mvo_: does it do any apt-get updating ?
[01:10] <Kamion> though it does it in the way that the llseek(2) man page recommends
[01:10] <mvo_> eruin: no, but it installs a apt config variable that will do it nightly. and it monitors for apt-get updates/installs
[01:11] <eruin> ah :)
[01:12] <eruin> mvo_: will it update next time you boot if it can't do it at the originally scheduled update time?
[01:12] <Kamion> oh, no, never mind, that code's inside an #ifdef which doesn't fire
[01:12] <lifeless> #ifdef KAMIONISBROKEN
[01:12] <mvo_> eruin: if you have anacron installed, yes
[01:12] <eruin> I kind of get the feeling I could have read about this somewhere instead of asking in here ;>
[01:13] <lifeless> Kamion: whats your awk foo like?
[01:13] <Kamion> lifeless: why thank you
[01:13] <eruin> mvo_: cheers ;)
[01:13] <Kamion> lifeless: mm, not excellent
[01:13] <lifeless> got this bazaar-gpg-check script, it wants gawk, noone knows why.
[01:13] <lifeless> it shits thom on a regular basis.
[01:13] <mvo_> eruin: np. tell me if it fails to update itself after install/update :)
[01:13] <eruin> willdo
[01:13] <lifeless> I'm trying to find a suck^Wvoluntee^Whero to figure out why it wants gawk and make it mawk friendly
[01:14] <Kamion> lifeless: I think that's liable to be beyond me, sorry, I don't know mawk/gawk differences
[01:14] <fabbione> ATA over Ethernet support (ATA_OVER_ETH) [N/m/y/?]  (NEW) 
[01:14] <fabbione> ^^^THIS IS SCARY!
[01:14] <lifeless> EEK
[01:14] <fabbione> 2.6.11
[01:14] <elmo> mawk is unmaintained upstream and not even posix complete, in some areas, but for trivial use it shouldn't matter
[01:14] <lifeless> elmo: apparently something thom builds for the distro (cough apache cough) wants mawk to build.
[01:14] <thom> lifeless: i actually fixed apache2 to just use mawk unconditionally
[01:15] <lifeless> elmo: and won't build with gawk
[01:15] <lifeless> thom: cool.
[01:15] <thom> lifeless: so it doesn't bother me that much now; it just shouldn't be a depends
[01:15] <elmo> yeah, the problem there wasn't youre use of gawk, it was the build-conflicts apache had
[01:15] <lifeless> well one stemmed from the other
[01:15] <thom> lifeless: recommends would be a reasonable relationship, given that you don't *need* the gpg check script to use tla
[01:16] <thom> anyway, it no longer shits me :-)
[01:16] <lifeless> thom: gonna nuke the script in a month or two, don't want to fight silly bug reports from folk betwene now and then
[01:16] <thom> fair enough
[01:16] <lifeless> but good
[01:16] <thom> you can just take the correct approach and figlet all bug reporters to death
[01:17] <lifeless> :)
[01:19] <fabbione> elmo: can you kindly run the germinate/ universe2main black woodo magic for sparc?
[01:19] <fabbione> (seeds have been updated)
[01:19] <elmo> I already did
[01:19] <fabbione> Kamion: building now
[01:19] <fabbione> elmo: you rock
[01:20] <dholbach> see you later
[01:24] <seb128> hum
[01:24] <seb128> that's a powerful bug: #5887    	
[01:24] <seb128> open /mnt/foo in nautilus and umount it with the command line -> box crash
[01:25] <infinity> thom : The mawk/gawk issue is actually a long-standing gawk bug when operating in UTF-8 locales, or something.
[01:25] <infinity> thom : It cropped up when vorlon built alpha apache2 binaries on his system.
[01:25] <thom> infinity: utf-8 related? urk
[01:25] <thom> yeah
[01:25] <seb128> I blame the kernel
[01:26] <infinity> thom : It would be just as sane to force the apache2 build to occur in 'C' and allow either awk.
[01:26] <jdub> iz gtk bug
[01:26] <thom> infinity: i hadn't realised it was locales related so i didn't think of that, but yes
[01:26] <infinity> thom : I just went for the most obvious "it will work, who cares if it's ugly" approach, because, at the time, I was led to believe a release was imminent.
[01:26] <thom> jdub: itym "boog"
[01:26] <seb128> jdub: have you read #5887 ?
[01:26] <jdub> thom: my french isn't very good
[01:26] <elmo> infinity: a whole bunch of utf-8 issues got fixed in gawk recently...
[01:27] <seb128> jdub: the box just freeze, even my ssh connections on it
[01:27] <infinity> elmo : How recently?... I can certainly retest this theory.
[01:27] <seb128> jdub: perhaps an inotify issue ?
[01:27] <fabbione> seb128: yes
[01:27] <elmo> infinity: 3.1.4-2, in November
[01:27] <fabbione> it's the same as 5431
[01:27] <seb128> fabbione: ok
[01:28] <seb128> thanks
[01:28] <thom> infinity: yeah. i just did ac_cv_prog_AWK=mawk in front of configure
[01:28] <fabbione> seb128: no problem.. i will reassign it soon to jdub
[01:28] <infinity> thom : That works. :)
[01:29] <infinity> elmo : Oh, right.  All those NMUs from Japan. :)  I should have tested apache2 after I saw those roll in, but I was either a) not thinking, b) busy.  Who knows which anymore.
[01:29] <infinity> elmo : Thanks for the tip.
[01:30] <jdub> seb128: that bug ROCKS
[01:30] <jdub> seb128: it could indeed be inotify
[01:30] <jdub> seb128: are you on gamin list?
[01:31] <thom> elmo: any objections to adding bugs.ubuntu.com? I _always_ try and type it rather than bugzilla
[01:33] <Kamion> it'd have yet more SSL cert problems ...
[01:33] <infinity> Not if it just 302's to bugzilla.
[01:34] <Kamion> true
[01:34] <thom> i have no idea *why* our bugzilla is encrypted in the first place, but yeah, we could just 302 it 
[01:34] <thom> anyway, just a thought
[01:34] <elmo> thom: no
[01:34] <Kamion> the https is slightly valuable for auth, but the whole thing doesn't have to be https for that does it?
[01:34] <thom> given bugzilla should be going away anyway, a more generic name might be a good thing...
[01:34] <mvo_> thom++
[01:35] <Kamion> I think it was mostly because we used to be in supa-s3kr1t mode
[01:35] <jdub> thom: or just flagrant url breaking :)
[01:35] <fabbione> Kamion: what SSL cert problem? thom will take care of it :-)
[01:35] <thom> fabbione: FOAD :-)
[01:35] <Kamion> haha
[01:35] <fabbione> ahah
[01:35] <fabbione> i am a true bastard
[01:35] <jdub> serious foad issues with mr. may
[01:36] <infinity> That reminds me to file an RFU on ssl-cert.
[01:36] <infinity> (request for unsucking)
[01:36] <infinity> If that's even possible.
[01:36] <thom> heh
[01:36] <elmo> thom: well that's why I've not done bugs.u.c before, because it'll become malone at some point presumably, which would be a confusing switch without transition, but *shrug*
[01:36] <fabbione> infinity: well.. thom is upstream you know?
[01:36] <thom> fabbione: so are you
[01:36] <fabbione> no
[01:36] <infinity> fabbione : I think that may be the issue. :)
[01:36] <fabbione> i only did the debian package
[01:36] <thom> elmo: *nod*
[01:36] <jdub> thom: oh, btw, no apache2-utils?
[01:37] <thom> jdub: thinking about it
[01:37] <jdub> thom: where does htpasswd live in post-apache1.3 land?
[01:37] <infinity> jdub : We've had a few wishlist requests to split it out.  I was thinking I might.
[01:37] <infinity> jdub : Right now, they're in -common.
[01:37] <jdub> aha
[01:37] <thom> htpasswd2
[01:37] <jdub> heh
[01:37] <infinity> thom : If we split -utils, we could retain the same names as apache and just conflict.
[01:37] <thom> infinity: indeed
[01:37] <infinity> thom : No irritating "ab2" and "htpasswd2", etc.
[01:38] <elmo> the worse one is apache2ctl
[01:38] <thom> we could just disappear apache-utils entirely, actually
[01:38] <elmo> like, hello, inconsistent-much?
[01:38] <infinity> elmo : That can't be helped, if we want 1.3 and 2.0 to be installable side-by-side, though. :/
[01:38] <jdub> infinity: apachectl2
[01:38] <thom> elmo: the binary is apache2, thus it's apache2ctl, like apache-sslctl
[01:38] <infinity> jdub : I think it was named to match apache-sslctl and apache-perlctl
[01:38] <thom> it's actually consistent with apache-*
[01:39] <infinity> Yeah, what he said.
[01:39] <jdub> bong ;)
[01:39] <elmo> thom: it's inconsistent with sanity
[01:39] <jdub> that's an unusable consistency! ;)
[01:39] <fabbione> sanity????
[01:39] <fabbione> what's that?
[01:39] <jdub> thom: you are inspired by arch
[01:39] <thom> elmo: and thus perfect for debian
[01:39] <elmo> seriously, ab2, htpasswd2, apachectl2.. no wait.. sorry, my bad apache2ctl.. how OBVIOUS
[01:39] <thom> elmo: i'll call it a2b if you like :-)
[01:39] <infinity> elmo : Well, if we scrap ab2 and htpasswd2, then it becomes less irritating. :)
[01:40] <fabbione> Kamion: 336081aaf4fe2d5d5e6e4222aaa952d7  kernel-image-2.6.11-rc2-bk3_10.00.Custom_amd64.deb
[01:40] <thom> but yes, what he said
[01:40] <infinity> thom : I like the idea of phasing out apache-utils, and just making apache2-utils provide it.  Shall I do that, like.. now?
[01:40] <fabbione> Kamion: usual place
[01:40] <thom> infinity: please do :-)
[01:40] <infinity> fabbione : objections?
[01:40] <fabbione> infinity: get ready to fix also the 284773243 RC bugs you will get that for that
[01:41] <fabbione> infinity: i am VAC from Debian
[01:41] <fabbione> i can't object
[01:41] <infinity> fabbione : I didn't ask if you'd do it, just if you objected.
[01:41] <fabbione> infinity: btw.. do we know eachother?
[01:41] <sivang> seb128: what do you think about changing g-s-t to use tarball.mk ? ;-) what do you think debian upstream would say about that?
[01:41] <infinity> fabbione : <laugh>
[01:41] <fabbione> infinity: go ahead. i have no objections
[01:41] <jbailey> fabbione: He's the one to blame php on... ;)
[01:41] <fabbione> i know NOTTING
[01:41] <sivang> seb128: pitti showed me g-v-m, it' so clean
[01:41] <infinity> jbailey : die.
[01:41] <fabbione> jbailey: yeah i know.. :P
[01:41] <infinity> jbailey : I was young, foolish.. And now it's too late to give it away.
[01:42] <pitti> seb128: the problem with not using it that the NNlibtoolize.patch fails to unapply
[01:42] <infinity> thom : Consider it done.  It's on my TODO for the next few days.
[01:42] <seb128> jdub: nop, but I could subscribe to this list too :)
[01:42] <Kamion> fabbione: downloading
[01:42] <pitti> seb128: I also had this problem with hal; seems to be a cdbs bug, but I circumvented it by using tarball.mk
[01:42] <jbailey> pitti: What bug? =)
[01:42] <fabbione> who did the last bunch of uploads like evolution-data-server and rhythmbox_0.8.8-2ubuntu1 ?
[01:42] <jdub> seb128: comments from viro that may be related
[01:42] <elmo> fabbione: dude, guess
[01:43] <seb128> jdub: ok
[01:43] <seb128> pitti: ??
[01:43] <fabbione> Kamion: i really do NOT ensure anything about that kernel
[01:43] <fabbione> elmo: hmmmmm thom?
[01:43] <Kamion> fabbione: sure
[01:43] <fabbione> ;)
[01:43] <pitti> seb128: once I had a hal patch which changed libtool and autofoo files
[01:43] <fabbione> Kamion: it compiles.. that's all i know
[01:43] <elmo> fabbione: he-iz-one-man-gnome-army
[01:43] <pitti> seb128: it applied, but after building the package it failed to unapply, i. e. debclean failed
[01:43] <thom> infinity: have a look at the ubuntu packages, i'm not sure there's much difference but there may be some stuff worth stealing
[01:43] <sivang> seb128: same here
[01:44] <seb128> pitti: pitti oh, right, bugged debian/rules :)
[01:44] <infinity> thom : Will do.
[01:44] <jbailey> pitti: What occasionally happens is that at some point afterwards those files get rebuilt.
[01:44] <sivang> jbailey: the cdbs .mk(s) ?
[01:44] <jbailey> pitti: You have to make sure that any patching like that also includes setting maintainer-mode in the configure.ac
[01:44] <pitti> jbailey: _could_ be the reason
[01:44] <fabbione> seb128: isn't time to start to check the B-D of your packages?
[01:44] <seb128> fabbione: what's wrong ?
[01:45] <pitti> jbailey: in any case I prefer tarball.mk since it is so much cleaner and more robust
[01:45] <jbailey> pitti: It's probably 75% of the suckage around relibtoolising/autoconfing.
[01:45] <fabbione> seb128: both e-d-s and rhythmbox_0.8.8-2ubuntu1 fails with older versions of some libraries
[01:45] <jbailey> pitti: Concur, that's why I wrote it. =)
[01:45] <pitti> jbailey: you can happily mess up build-tree and experiment wihtout breaking your source
[01:45] <seb128> pitti: is that a tarball in the tarball ?
[01:45] <pitti> seb128: it's a tarball (the original one) in the orig.tar.gz, yes
[01:45] <fabbione> seb128: and they do not enforce the B-D on the new ones
[01:45] <seb128> fabbione: what versions ? rhythmbox has not changed for months
[01:45] <pitti> seb128: but that's about the only drawback 
[01:46] <seb128> fabbione: BTW the new rb upload is broken
[01:46] <pitti> jbailey: oh, that was you? Thanks a lot for it :-)
[01:46] <jbailey> pitti: dpkg purists have trouble with it, though.
[01:46] <fabbione> seb128: e-d-s 1.1.4-0ubuntu1: checking for libsoup-2.2 >= 2.2.2... Requested 'libsoup-2.2 >= 2.2.2' but version of libsoup is 2.2.1
[01:46] <fabbione> configure: error: Library requirements (libsoup-2.2 >= 2.2.2) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them.
[01:46] <seb128> pitti: no way to do this
[01:46] <pitti> jbailey: guess what? I looked at Keybuk's dpkg V2 proposal, and it seems to do exactly that :-)
[01:46] <fabbione> seb128: rb has a similar error
[01:46] <seb128> fabbione: arg, I've updated it, I swear
[01:46] <pitti> seb128: yeah, you need a new upstream version to do that
[01:46] <fabbione> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gstreamer-libs-0.8.pc'
[01:46] <fabbione> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
[01:46] <fabbione> No package 'gstreamer-libs-0.8' found
[01:46] <fabbione> configure: error: GStreamer not found, or older than version 0.8.1
[01:46] <seb128> fabbione: rb has dropped a depends that should not be dropped
[01:47] <fabbione> seb128: no problem :-)
[01:47] <seb128> yeah, I know about this one, debian's fault :)
[01:47] <fabbione> just reporting
[01:47] <jbailey> pitti: Nice!  So far in the proposal the only thing I can see being a problem is the whole idea of unpack-without-using-anything-outside-of-base.  It pretty much eliminates any helper scripts at all.
[01:47] <Kamion> pitti: which is good - the thing dpkg purists like me have trouble with is that it's not in dpkg
[01:47] <jbailey> pitti: Or, well, forces me to install one directly into the package. =(
[01:47] <seb128> pitti: no, that's insane, I'll never do that :p
[01:47] <eruin> locales broken atm?
[01:47] <pitti> seb128: try it once, you'll love it :-)
[01:48] <seb128> pitti: that breaks the pkg-gnome SVN usage totally, which is to have debian/ in the SVN and the upstream tarball in tarballs/ and use svn-buildpackage
[01:48] <pitti> seb128: right now you have an RC BUG! *muhaha*
[01:48] <seb128> pitti: no way
[01:48] <eruin> I've got mine set to norwegian, but no app (but firefox) is in that language. the rest are in danish, swedish and english :P
[01:48] <eruin> even more so than a few days ago
[01:48] <seb128> pitti: repackaging the upstream tarball is a real pain
[01:48] <seb128> pitti: atm upstream tarball == orig
[01:49] <pitti> seb128: so then the package should be fixed to clean properly
[01:49] <pitti> seb128: <jbailey> pitti: You have to make sure that any patching like that also includes setting maintainer-mode in the configure.ac
[01:49] <pitti> sivang: ^ was that the reason for the failure?
[01:50] <pitti> sivang: i. e. did it call autoreconf/autoconf/automake/whatever during build?
[01:50] <seb128> pitti: agreed totally on that
[01:52] <seb128> pitti: BTW gst is not a CDBS package and use dpatch
[01:52] <Kamion> hm, ENOINITRD I think
[01:52] <pitti> seb128: argh, dpatch
[01:52] <fabbione> Kamion: humpf.. let me see again.. i am not a big fun of make-kpkg
[01:53] <pitti> seb128: okay, then sorry for the disturbance
[01:53] <seb128> so don't blame CDBS here :p
[01:53] <seb128> np :)
[01:53] <Kamion> fabbione: no, I think that's on my end
[01:53] <pitti> seb128: well, I had the same error with cdbs
[01:53] <seb128> I know, that happens sometime :)
[01:53] <pitti> seb128: but as jbailey says, it's probably not a cdbs/dpatch bug
[01:53] <fabbione> Kamion: no.. make-kpkg wants an option to build the initrd
[01:54] <elmo> oh dear lord, we have an mdadm that can't start degraded raid 5 arrays in hoary
[01:54] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. deb is updated
[01:54] <fabbione> elmo: thanks the debian maintainer for it
[01:55] <Kamion> fabbione: hm ok
[01:56] <eruin> ugh,another random X/gdm crash
[01:58] <pitti> sivang: new language-support-he package (with culmus dependency) uploaded
[01:58] <infinity> elmo : Is that the bug dilinger just filed?
[01:58] <eruin> anyone running the very latest updates here?
[01:58] <eruin> file -> open (after one or two tries) in gedit makes X restart :P
[02:00] <infinity> elmo : Ahh, so it is.
[02:00] <fabbione> eruin: please move these questions to #ubuntu
[02:01] <pitti> Kamion: that means we can close #3723 now?
[02:01] <pitti> Kamion: sorry, #3273
[02:02] <elmo> infinity: yeah
[02:03] <Kamion> pitti: mm, can I do one test of today's ISO first?
[02:03] <Kamion> pitti: (but basically yeah)
[02:03] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I leave it open for now
[02:03] <pitti> no reason to hurry
[02:07] <Kamion> fabbione: 2.6.11-rc2-bk3 segfaults
[02:07] <fabbione> with grub or in general for other reasons?
[02:08] <Kamion> with grub
[02:08] <fabbione> ok
[02:08] <fabbione> than there is not much that i can do
[02:08] <Kamion> the desktop starts up fine, although I don't have networking (sk98lin)
[02:08] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. the sk98lin is a driver we patch
[02:08] <fabbione> i didn't port all the patches
[02:08] <Kamion> right
[02:09] <fabbione> just used vanilla upstream
[02:09] <Kamion> sadly I think this is RC for amd64, although I suppose we could work around it by forcing lilo
[02:10] <fabbione> Kamion: i am digging on LKML mailing list
[02:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: lilo doesn't exist on our amd64, I'll see if I can track it down.. I guess it's compile time.
[02:11] <Mithrandir> fabbione: how many patches between our .9 and .10?
[02:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: arse
[02:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's easy enough to build if we want it
[02:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's PaSed
[02:12] <fabbione> Mithrandir: you mean bk changesets?
[02:12] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes
[02:12] <fabbione> Mithrandir: TONS
[02:12] <fabbione> http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.10
[02:13] <Kamion> fabbione: google hasn't been forthcoming for me
[02:13] <fabbione> each entry in there is at least one changeset
[02:13] <Kamion> except for that similar report on debian-amd64
[02:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the point is that it can be a simple change somewhere in the SATA code or ide or whatever that it is absolutely unrelated to the real problem
[02:14] <Kamion> I suppose I could try all the RCs to narrow it down
[02:15] <fabbione> Kamion: it won't help too much
[02:15] <fabbione> they usually do a huge amount of commits before rc1
[02:15] <Kamion> fabbione: are you just doing a plain make-kpkg on the tree? if you tell me the command line, I can build stuff myself
[02:15] <fabbione> and from there on it's only to stabilize for release
[02:16] <fabbione> make-kpkg --initrd --rootcmd fakeroot kernel_image
[02:16] <fabbione> inside an unpacked linux tree from vanilla
[02:16] <elmo> seb128: why are you sonaming -dbg packages?
[02:16] <fabbione> Kamion: you will need debian/config/amd64/amd64-generic and copy it in the tree as .config
[02:16] <seb128> elmo: dh_strip --dbg-package= does that
[02:17] <seb128> elmo: I'm moving from old method to dh_strip 
[02:17] <sivang> pitti: I think so , how can I make sure?
[02:17] <elmo> seb128: err, confused - how does dh_strip affect package name?
[02:17] <seb128> elmo: you can't specificy the name, it takes the lib name and appends -dbg
[02:18] <pitti> sivang: grep the g-s-t*.build log for "auto(make|conf|reconf|libtool)"
[02:18] <elmo> seb128: boggle
[02:18] <seb128> elmo: so libgnomeui-0 dbg is libgnomeui-0-dbg
[02:18] <elmo> surely that's a bug?
[02:18] <seb128> is there a problem with that naming ?
[02:18] <elmo> seb128: well it's generating useless NEW delays, and is user-confusing for no good reason IMO
[02:19] <pitti> sivan, others, I'm off for about three hours; a friend of mine defends his diploma, and I want to attend
[02:19] <pitti> cu later
[02:19] <elmo> seb128: but *shrug* if you don't care, I don't suppose I do that much either
[02:19] <sivang> pitti: cool, see ya laterz 
[02:19] <seb128> elmo: yeah, but that's only happening for a few packages (should be ok now)
[02:19] <seb128> elmo: that's to be done once to get a sane situation after that ...
[02:20] <seb128> if you don't mind just get this one in, and that's ok after that :)
[02:22] <elmo> yeah, I already processed it
[02:24] <seb128> ok, thanks
[02:25] <tseng> ogra: ping
[02:27] <jdub> tseng: would you like an endorsement? :)
[02:27] <tseng> jdub: heh im doing my wiki page now, i got it wrong
[02:27] <tseng> its a subtopic of the MaintainerCandidates page apperantly
[02:27] <jdub> that's just zwiki being stupid
[02:28] <jdub> it saves the page you created your page from
[02:28] <jdub> and calls it a parent topic
[02:28] <jdub> it
[02:28] <jdub> it's very silly
[02:28] <tseng> oh.
[02:28] <jdub> i'm a subtopic of the mataro schedule
[02:28] <tseng> :P
[02:28] <Treenaks> jdub: well, it could be considered "smart".. but it should ask, really :)
[02:28] <tseng> do I need to add another link to myself on that page, then?
[02:29] <Treenaks> tseng: yes, because you could reparent yourself to some other page
[02:29] <jdub> tseng: only on the CC page
[02:29] <ogra> tseng pong
[02:29] <fabbione> Kamion: i think i found the problem
[02:29] <tseng> ogra: heya :P, doing user page now bud
[02:29] <Kamion> fabbione: oh?
[02:29] <jdub> tseng: well, yes, you need to be on the MC page too
[02:29] <Kamion> fabbione: btw, 2.6.9 and 2.6.10-rc1 were like four days apart - are they really that different?
[02:29] <ogra> i just saw you talking about , thumbs up !
[02:29] <ogra> tseng^^
[02:31] <fabbione> Kamion: never mind.. it's only for NUMA/acpi combinations that do not apply to -generic
[02:31] <tseng> Treenaks: ah-ha! thanks.
[02:35] <tseng> jdub: all finished that, I believe
[02:46] <fabbione> hmm
[02:48] <jdub> seb128: YAYayayayayAYAYAY!
[02:48] <seb128> ?
[02:48] <jdub> gnomemeeting ;)
[02:48] <seb128> oh :)
[02:49] <seb128> jdub: could you run your stuff to know what's outdated ?
[02:49] <jdub> ok!
[02:49] <seb128> thanks :)
[02:49] <dholbach> re
[02:50] <fabbione> elmo: sparc-utils is still in universe. is that intended or the change is still propagating?
[02:50] <jdub> -platform:gnome-mime-data:2.4.1:
[02:50] <jdub> +platform:gnome-mime-data:2.4.2:
[02:50] <seb128> oh, right
[02:50] <jdub> -platform:intltool:0.32.1:
[02:50] <jdub> +platform:intltool:0.33:
[02:50] <jdub> -platform:libart_lgpl:2.3.16:
[02:50] <jdub> +platform:libart_lgpl:2.3.17:
[02:50] <jdub> (though you just did that one, right?)
[02:50] <seb128> these ones is in Debian incoming, I'm waiting for a sync
[02:50] <jdub> libgnome/libgnomecanvas/libgnomeui
[02:50] <jdub> ggv
[02:50] <seb128> these ones are done
[02:51] <jdub> gnome-speech
[02:51] <seb128> ggv/gnome-speech to do so :)
[02:51] <jdub> gtk-engines/gnome-themes -> pending d-g-g
[02:51] <jdub> libgail-gnome
[02:51] <seb128> that's yours :) (thanks again)
[02:51] <jdub> dasher
[02:51] <seb128> dasher has a crashed according to mjg59 
[02:51] <seb128> bah, no a lot to do, cool :)
[02:51] <jdub> e-d-s 1.1.4.1
[02:51] <seb128> s/no/not/
[02:51] <seb128> done too
[02:52] <elmo> fabbione: my germinate doesn't see it
[02:52] <jdub> how do we have g-s-t 1.1.90 before ftp-release-list does? :)
[02:52] <elmo> ah, probably  because it's sparc specific
[02:52] <elmo> hmm, this is going to be painful
[02:52] <fabbione> elmo: yes.. supported -> sparc-utils [sparc] 
[02:53] <elmo> hmm, no, it runs germinate for sparc
[02:53] <fabbione> if it's not an issue i can just kill the [sparc]  bit
[02:54] <seb128> jdub: ? g-s-t is not been updated yet, some patches need to be rewritten ...
[02:54] <elmo> fabbione: no, I don't mean that, I meant i thought I wasn't running germinate for sparc arch, but I am.. checking
[02:54] <jdub> oh, i am just on crack
[02:55] <elmo> pitti: ?
[02:55] <sivang> elmo: he's away for about 3 hours
[02:55] <seb128> jdub: thanks :)
[02:55] <elmo> meh
[02:56] <elmo> fabbione: dude.
[02:57] <elmo> fabbione: sparc-utils isn't in the archive
[02:57] <fabbione> the source is..
[02:57] <elmo> doesn't matter
[02:57] <elmo> germinate works off Packages files - if it's not built, it can't deal with it
[02:57] <fabbione> AHhhhhh
[02:57] <fabbione> ok
[02:57] <sivang> tseng: my layouts are superiro? ;-)
[03:00] <dholbach> /wois tseng
[03:00] <dholbach> *pipe innocently*
[03:01] <sivang> dholbach: huh?
[03:02] <ogra> dholbach: stop whistling.... :)
[03:03] <otavio> Where I can get seeds and germinate source to take a look?
[03:03] <otavio> elmo: can you provide it to me?
[03:04] <Kamion> otavio: they're all in public arch archives, one sec
[03:05] <Kamion> otavio: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SeedManagement for the seeds
[03:06] <Kamion> otavio: baz register-archive http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2004; baz get colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/germinate--mainline--0 # for germinate
[03:06] <Kamion> (or tla if you don't have baz)
[03:07] <otavio> Kamion: thanks a lot :-)
[03:08] <ogra> tseng, you maintain nicotine ?
[03:11] <Astharot> salve
[03:12] <elmo> Rejected: Unknown distribution `unstable'.
[03:12] <elmo> Rejected: no source found for sparc-utils 1.9-2.3 (sparc-utils_1.9-2.3_sparc.deb).
[03:12] <elmo> fabbione: --^
[03:13] <Astharot> is there a kind of netselect-apt for ubuntu ?
[03:14] <Kamion> we don't yet have a Mirrors.masterlist file in the Debian format, which would probably kill that ...
[03:16] <zul> hey ogra
[03:17] <ogra> hey zul
[03:20] <fabbione> elmo: that's impossible.. http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/sparc-utils/
[03:20] <fabbione> the source is there
[03:21] <fabbione> i just sbuilded it
[03:22] <tseng> ogra: i did in gentoo
[03:22] <elmo> fabbione: uh, right, could be the distribution through katie off
[03:22] <tseng> ogra: barely touch the thing now, however
[03:22] <fabbione> elmo: that should still allow binary uploads...
[03:23] <ogra> tseng, it was my fist upload (the one of two jdub missed ;) )
[03:23] <fabbione> elmo: from the buildd at least
[03:23] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hoary-changes/2005-January/001727.html
[03:23] <tseng> ogra: nice one
[03:23] <fabbione> elmo: do you want me to reupload?
[03:36] <ogra> lamont around ?
[03:47] <sivang> tseng: take a look ;-)
[03:48] <tseng> sivang: heh, nice one. thanks
[03:52] <sivang> tseng: no prob, I got to know moin at least while prewarty :)
[04:00] <farruinn> Kamion: ping?
[04:00] <Kamion> farruinn: pong
[04:03] <opi> game, set & mach
[04:04] <Kamion> "match"
[04:04] <farruinn> Kamion: I was told to ask you about hfs support on the install cd
[04:04] <Kamion> farruinn: should already be there
[04:04] <opi> Kamion, yeah, I know ;)
[04:05] <farruinn> does it need to be loaded manually?
[04:05] <Kamion> hm, hfs-modules is Priority: extra so maybe not
[04:05] <Kamion> farruinn: one sec, I'm looking
[04:05] <farruinn> thanks
[04:05] <farruinn> the reason I ask is that if the install cd would allow you to mount hfs partitions it would make it easier to install on oldworld macs
[04:05] <Kamion> os-prober depends on it; that ought to be sufficient to have the udeb installed automatically
[04:05] <Kamion> modprobe hfs
[04:06] <farruinn> ah, ok, I was wondering if it was something as simple as that
[04:06] <Kamion> farruinn: nobody's written a partman-hfs component yet
[04:06] <Kamion> so you won't be able to mount them from the partition manager
[04:07] <farruinn> so nothing would really be accomplished by 'modprobe hfs'?
[04:08] <farruinn> I mean, you can load the module but can't mount hfs partitions anyway?
[04:10] <farruinn> (I don't exactly understand what you mean by partition manager - is that the partition tool or some sort of service?)
[04:10] <Kamion> you can mount them from the command line
[04:10] <farruinn> ok, excellent =)
[04:10] <Kamion> I mean the "Partition Disks" user interface in the installer
[04:11] <farruinn> ok, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure
[04:11] <farruinn> thanks for dealing with my ignorance =)
[04:11] <Kamion> np
[04:11] <Kamion> let me know if it fails
[04:34] <dilinger> infinity: recovering raid5 arrays if 1 drive dies is overrated, anyways
[04:38] <daniels> mdz: ping
[04:38] <farruinn> Kamion: I booted into the install cd, tried a modprobe hfs but it said "no module found".  The only things in /lib/modules/2.6.8.1-3-powerpc/kernel/fs were isofs and nls
[04:41] <Kamion> farruinn: don't try that right at the very start
[04:41] <Kamion> farruinn: you have to run through the interface at least past retrieving installer components (or whatever the step is called)
[04:42] <stuNNed> PLEASE offer galeon as alternative to web browser, Ximian does it, and although i like firefox it crashes a good bit, the backported version of 1.0 to warty
[04:43] <farruinn> Kamion: ok, I'll try again this afternoon
[04:43] <ogra> stuNNed: the backported version is neither supported nor tested by us
[04:43] <tseng> stuNNed: how about epiphany-browser
[04:43] <stuNNed> ogra: why isn't galeon in multiverse or universe? :(
[04:44] <ogra> stuNNed: in fact it will break the upgradeability of your system badly (all backports that is)
[04:44] <ogra> stuNNed: it was unmaintained and broken when warty released
[04:44] <stuNNed> tseng: epiphany is ok but really just doesn't have as many gui options as galeon has and to be honest i've been using galeon for the past 5 years and know it a bit more
[04:45] <stuNNed> so just use something like checkinstall to install galeon deb?
[04:45] <stuNNed> which i'd rather not do...
[04:45] <tseng> galeon 1.3.19 is in hoary, btw
[04:45] <stuNNed> aahhhh.... :D
[04:45] <tseng> so this will be solved in next release
[04:46] <stuNNed> that's all i need to know, in the meantime, i'll make my own debs or just install from source, thanks :D
[04:46] <tseng> it could use a rebuild against firefox-dev it looks like
[04:46] <tseng> depends on mozilla-browser still
[04:46] <Mithrandir> tseng: why aren't you a MOTU yet? :)
[04:47] <tseng> Mithrandir: im on the list now dude :)
[04:47] <thom> tseng: *shrug* it's in universe :-)
[04:47] <ogra> Mithrandir: tuesday ;)
[04:47] <Mithrandir> tseng: ah, ok.
[04:50] <seb128> elmo: gnome-gv and gnome-speech syncs please
[04:52] <seb128> elmo: libgnomesu too
[04:53] <elmo> seb128: done
[04:53] <seb128> thanks
[04:53] <fabbione> elmo: do you want me to reupload sparc-utils?
[04:53] <elmo> fabbione: sure, with the right distro
[04:54] <fabbione> elmo: it doesn't have any hoary changes.. it's just builded as i am building universe and other packages
[04:54] <elmo> fabbione: eh?  sure, but the Distribution: line in the .changes still needs to say 'hoary', not 'unstable'
[04:54] <elmo> that's why it got confused about the source  not existing, it was looking for the source in the 'unstable' suite, which obviously doesn't exist
[04:56] <fabbione> ahhhh ok
[04:56] <fabbione> well i guess i can just edit the changes and resign them, right?
[04:56] <elmo> yeah
[04:56] <fabbione> there... done
[04:57] <fabbione> ah here is another one we forgot...
[04:58] <fabbione> Kamion: i need to add genromfs that is required to build d-i, what is the best seed for it?
[04:58] <elmo> if it's a b-d of d-i, you shouldn't need to?
[04:58] <fabbione> elmo: it's one that is downloaded at build time
[04:59] <elmo> it's also a build-depends
[04:59] <elmo> once the sparc binary gets into the archive, it'll get auto-seeded
[05:00] <fabbione> right...
[05:03] <fabbione> elmo: sorry if i appear silly.. all this seeds <-> archive interaction still hides some black corner cases in my head :-)
[05:03] <fabbione> and not knowing all the secret details of archive management makes some stuff more difficult for me to understand..
[05:04] <fabbione> but stuff is getting clear (slowly ;))
[05:06] <fabbione> there... this should be enough....
[05:13] <jbailey> Kamion: If you're using hotplug in d-i instead of discover, how are you handling detection of ISA/EISA devices?
[05:19] <Kamion> I didn't think d-i used discover for ISA detection anyway
[05:19] <Kamion>                 discover --format="%m:%V %M\n" --disable-all \
[05:19] <Kamion>                           --enable=pci,ide,scsi${sbus},pcmcia ide scsi cdrom ethernet bridge |
[05:19] <lamont> fabbione: ack
[05:20] <lamont> Kamion: gnupg should _NOT_ be in hoary.buildd
[05:20] <lamont> ogra: ack
[05:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I don't think discover does ISA discovery anyhow
[05:25] <jbailey> Mithrandir: The man page says that isa is a recognised bus.
[05:26] <Mithrandir> that doesn't mean it actually _does_ anything with it.  :)
[05:26] <Mithrandir> you can't really detect stuff on ISA in any sane way.
[05:26] <pitti> sivang: I'm back
[05:29] <mvo_> pitti: how was the presentation?
[05:31] <pitti> mvo_: well, I did not understand most of it
[05:31] <pitti> mvo_: "High-speed in-circuit debugging of the ARM9TDMI processor code"
[05:31] <pitti> mvo_: I have a major in theoretical computer science...
[05:31] <mvo_> pitti: heh
[05:32] <seb128> pitti: that's probably good time to update the language packs now :)
[05:32] <pitti> seb128: okay :-)
[05:32] <pitti> seb128: btw, it does not matter anyway
[05:33] <pitti> seb128: I can't extract the new translations, they are already stripped
[05:33] <pitti> seb128: so maybe I wait a little longer, then I can already get the stuff from lamont
[05:33] <pitti> lamont: here?
[05:37] <ogra> lamont: i got a bugreport for libgtksourceview-cil and try to rebuild....but there seems to be no mono-utils available, even the logs say it built...
[05:40] <tseng> ogra: i have mono-utils here..
[05:41] <ogra> tseng: i suspected this ;) , but i want to know why its not in universe if it was built successfull as the logs say...
[05:41] <tseng> i see it in universe
[05:41] <tseng> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe mono-utils 1.0.4-1 [528kB] 
[05:41] <tseng> Fetched 528kB in 4s (125kB/s) 
[05:41] <ogra> huh ?
[05:42] <sivang> does anybody know how are we ert plone updates from debina?
[05:42] <sivang> errr debian
[05:42] <whiprush> ogra: is there a MOTU channel or list?
[05:42] <sivang> (I have someone on the country team asking)
[05:42] <thom> ogra: i386 only for mono-utils, i'd bet
[05:42] <thom> i don't think it built anywhere else
[05:43] <ogra> thom: lol dumb me...
[05:43] <ogra> thom: amd64 here ;)
[05:43] <thom> yeah
[05:43] <ogra> thanks
[05:43] <thom> the lack of tomboy on amd64 is seriously annoying me
[05:43] <thom> i may do something about it soon
[05:43] <Kamion> lamont: why the emphasis?
[05:43] <ogra> whiprush: not yet...if you are interested, haggai or me are the guys to talk to
[05:43] <lamont> thom: mono's lack of buildability is kinda annoying me...
[05:44] <lamont> Kamion: dunno...  but it shouldn't be there
[05:44] <lamont> anything in hoary.buildd is defacto build-essential, and gnupg and it's dependencies shouldn't be.
[05:44] <Kamion> lamont: doesn't apt throw a wobbly nowadays if it can't verify signatures?
[05:44] <whiprush> ok, it'd be swell if there was a place to ask stupid questions without clogging up in here.
[05:44] <ogra> lamont: we got tsen aborard soon ;) this will change i guess..
[05:44] <Kamion> lamont: that's what somebody said was happening in pbuilder ...
[05:45] <ogra> whiprush: currently i'd like to keep it in here, because here are more experienced devs to look over my stupid answers ;)
[05:45] <whiprush> k
[05:45] <azeem> Kamion: the buildds don't use apt in the chroot though, AFAIK
[05:46] <ogra> whiprush: but for the uture a channel would be fine :)
[05:46] <ogra> future even
[05:46] <whiprush> is pbuilder the preferred tool for chroots?
[05:46] <lamont> Kamion: apt is run outside the chroot
[05:47] <lamont> whiprush: it's not what the buildd's use
[05:47] <whiprush> k
[05:47] <ogra> whiprush: there are some hints if you follow he links on this page: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTURecruitment
[05:49] <ogra> argh...why is the chroot page this cluttered suddenly...? could someone look at it, it seems a bit overloaded....(sudo cp /etc/shadow chroot/etc/ ??)
[05:49] <Kamion> lamont: ah
[05:49] <lamont> Kamion: the choices are (1) install gnupg, (2) run apt --allow-unauthenticated, or (3) run apt outside the chroot (which sbuild has done since time immemorial)...  we picked (3)
[05:50] <Kamion> lamont: makes life interesting for supporting pbuilder though
[05:50] <stratus> daniels, ping
[05:50] <ogra> lamont: thanks...
[05:50] <tseng> ogra: we also need to figure out what needs done to get libdbus-cil built
[05:50] <tseng> it builds here, i think it may just need a reupload
[05:50] <tseng> or missing a build-dep
[05:51] <tseng> its needed for the new tomboy, blam, and beagle
[05:51] <lamont> lets see.. it's missing dev/pts, which is required for at least some packages to build
[05:51] <sivang> erm..
[05:51] <sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[05:51] <sivang>   plone: Depends: zope-cmfplone (= 2.0.4-2) but it is not going to be installed
[05:52] <lamont> ogra: the buildd chroots do this:
[05:52] <lamont>     f=${root}/etc/passwd; grep -q "^${U}:" $f || getent passwd ${U} >> $f
[05:52] <lamont>     f=${root}/etc/group; grep -q "^buildd:" $f || getent group buildd >> $f
[05:52] <lamont>     f=${root}/etc/shadow; grep -q "^${U}:" $f || echo ${U}:\*:$(getent shadow ${U} | cut -d: -f3-9) >> $f
[05:54] <thom> http://www.clearairturbulence.org/netapplet-tehappletedition.png
[05:54] <thom> PHEAR
[05:56] <whiprush> ogra: ok, I'd like to sign up. I've never done packaging before but I've been reading the documentation and practicing with my own repo.
[05:56] <tseng> thom: i kinda think netapplet is the cause of my network dropping randomly of late
[05:56] <tseng> thom: ive removed it and have been fine since
[05:56] <thom> tseng: hrm, interesting
[05:56] <tseng> ipw2200
[05:56] <thom> i need to do more playing on my laptop
[05:56] <tseng> im imagining it may have somethign to do w/ the fact that it cant seem to get a signal reading from it
[05:56] <ogra> whiprush: thats a great start....add yourself to the MaintainerCandidates page .....get a gpg key....
[05:56] <tseng> shows as a big 0
[05:56] <whiprush> on it
[05:57] <thom> oh, that's a definite possibility then
[05:57] <thom> tseng: hrm, i'll finish this up and then might well ask you for some debug info
[05:57] <tseng> gnome-netstatus can read it fine
[05:57] <tseng> thom: sure
[05:57] <tseng> it might be related to ipw2200 having no rfmon
[05:57] <thom> yeah, ipw2*00 changed their format recently air
[05:57] <tseng> im not sure how it calculated it
[05:58] <tseng> in netapplet
[06:03] <tritium> isn't orinoco_cs driver now patches to allow putting it in monitor mode?
[06:03] <lamont> WTH does he want /tmp bind mounted into the chroot?
[06:03] <tritium> patched
[06:03] <ogra> heh
[06:04] <ogra> lamont: thank you, looks a lot saner now...
[06:05] <lamont> ogra: of course, now you can't run sudo in the chroot..., but that's a good thing, if you ask me...
[06:05] <ogra> :)
[06:06] <lamont> the buildd's bind mount /home/buildd/.ccache, proc, devpts, and nothing else
[06:07] <azeem> lamont: s/deboostrap/debootstrap/ on DebootstrapChroot
[06:07] <ogra> so probably drop the other stuff
[06:07] <lamont> azeem: gash!
[06:07] <pitti> lamont: any chance that I get the stripped translation tarballs?
[06:07] <pitti> lamont: I'd like to build a current set of langpacks
[06:09] <lamont> pitti: growing them all together it todays only project.  If you can wait a few hours, I'll have ~lamont/translations up and happy.. If not, I can duplicate all the work and manually copy everything into place...
[06:09] <ogra> gah, xkb is really broken on my lappie....couldnt type again...
[06:09] <pitti> lamont: no, a few hours is okay
[06:09] <pitti> lamont: building the packs tomorrow is perfect
[06:13] <ogra> lamont: also mounting /home in the chroot seems a bit silly (at least me runs the chroot below home, dunno how others do it though)
[06:17] <lamont> ogra: /home is a convenience for the users, gives them a trivial way to access stuff inside the chroot, etc.
[06:18] <ogra> driving home.....later....
[06:24] <elmo> does anyone know off hand where the regex for generating Closes: is in the dpkg-dev scripts?
[06:24] <elmo> ah, nm, found it
[06:40] <Kamion> daniels: has anyone mentioned yet that the latest l-r-m failed to build on i386?
[06:42] <elmo> whats' $& in perl and which of the perl manpages is that kind of thing defined in?
[06:42] <Mithrandir> perlvar
[06:42] <stratus> perlop?
[06:43] <Mithrandir>        $&      The string matched by the last successful pattern match (not
[06:43] <Mithrandir>                counting any matches hidden within a BLOCK or eval() enclosed
[06:43] <Mithrandir>                by the current BLOCK).  (Mnemonic: like & in some editors.)
[06:43] <Mithrandir>                This variable is read-only and dynamically scoped to the cur-
[06:43] <elmo> Mithrandir: cheers
[06:43] <Mithrandir>                rent BLOCK.
[06:44] <elmo> god my perl2python skillz have so attrophied
[06:44] <Mithrandir> it makes all regexes a fair bit slower, though, so it should be avoided.
[06:51] <seb128> elmo: could you get gazpacho in universe from debian (we don't have it atm) ?
[06:52] <smurfix> elmo: a friend of mine once wrote a translator
[06:53] <elmo> seb128: err, upstream version freeze means no new packages are being imported.. or is it a gnome thing?
[06:53] <elmo> smurfix: run away
[06:53] <smurfix> elmo: yep, especially from http://www.crazy-compilers.com/bridgekeeper/
[06:53] <smurfix> (that domain name should give one a clue or two ;-)
[06:54] <seb128> elmo: that's a gnome/python stuff, but not part of the desktop. I'll mail Matt/Jeff to ask with you in the Cc:, ok ?
[06:55] <elmo> seb128: yep, cool, thanks
[06:55] <smurfix> gah, the thing was opensource last time I looked. :-(
[07:00] <kagou> hi
[07:02] <kagou> is there repository for old packages ?
[07:03] <tseng> hm?
[07:03] <zul> kagou, morgue.ubuntulinux.org
[07:03] <kagou> thanks zul 
[07:03] <tseng> oh, old versions
[07:05] <elmo> that so needs an index
[07:05] <mdz> daniels: pong
[07:06] <thom> i think he's thoroughly asleep by now
[07:07] <mdz> pitti: pong
[07:08] <mdz> ajmitch: yes, we have been dropping python 2.2 and 2.1 support over the past couple of weeks
[07:08] <mdz> morning
[07:08] <thom> good morning
[07:08] <pitti> Hi mdz!
[07:08] <pitti> mdz: it was probably about the evo security update, I mailed
[07:09] <mdz> ok, catching up on mail
[07:09] <pitti> guys, has anybody of you ever tried DVD-RAM?
[07:09] <pitti> I just bought a DVD-RAM drive and tried writing on it, but it's slooow...
[07:09] <dholbach> pitti: only under winbloze, and it was DAMN slow too
[07:09] <Treenaks> pitti: at what speed?
[07:09] <tseng> i have a dvd+-rw
[07:09] <pitti> I only get about 1.5MB/s
[07:10] <Treenaks> pitti: wow.. that'll burn a DVD in a day
[07:10] <pitti> no, wrong
[07:10] <pitti> 1.5 MB/min
[07:10] <jdz_> oh man.. ouch.
[07:11] <mdz> pitti: I have a DVD-RAM/-RW/+RW drive
[07:11] <pitti> Treenaks: well, so far I also tried CD-RW, and that is fast
[07:11] <T-Bone> pitti: i have a DVD-RAM here. And yes it's slow. ;)
[07:11] <mdz> pitti: I use DVD+RW media in it, and it works very well
[07:11] <pitti> Treenaks: but packet writing is a pain
[07:11] <pitti> oh, wait
[07:12] <pitti> maybe it was because of pmount's sync mounting...
[07:12] <mdz> pitti: the disc isn't mounted for burning
[07:12] <mdz> it writes directly to the block device
[07:13] <mdz> pitti, daniels: I'm getting mangled emails from you via ubuntu-devevl
[07:13] <mdz> devel
[07:14] <mdz> oh, eek
[07:14] <lamont> I assume t here's a nice python module that will take 'key: value' pairs and produce a dictionary from same...  what's it called?
[07:14] <mdz> they're going from you, to the list, out to some subscriber, who is mangling them and sending back to the list
[07:14] <pitti> yay!"
[07:14] <mdz> lamont: the 'dict' object does that itself
[07:14] <mdz> lamont: dict(sequence of x,y) -> dictionary of x: y
[07:15] <pitti> now it's much faster, using async and noatime :-)
[07:15] <mdz> pitti: oh, you are using it for a writable filesystem? I have not tried that yet
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: what is mangled?
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: DVD-RAM, yes
[07:15] <mdz> pitti: never mind, it is a subscriber mangling the mails
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: now it's very nice
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: yes, I also saw that list. Looks like a bounce
[07:15] <lamont> mdz: I have ["a:b","c:d"]  and want {'a':'b','c':'d'} ... off to study dict...
[07:16] <mdz> I have not seen dvd+ram media around; how much do they cost compared to dvd+rw?
[07:16] <pitti> mdz: you format it with mkudffs, then all the Utopia hotplugging stuff instantly works
[07:16] <pitti> mdz: I payed  5.90 for one 4.7 GB disc
[07:16] <mdz> wow, that is a lot
[07:16] <pitti> mdz: about $7 maybe
[07:16] <pitti> mdz: yes, it is
[07:16] <pitti> mdz: but they are said to be _very_ reliable
[07:16] <mdz> I bought 10 DVD+RW for $20
[07:17] <pitti> mdz: they aren't for giving to friends 
[07:17] <mdz> and I have written some of them perhaps 50 or 100 times
[07:17] <pitti> mdz: they are for reliable backup
[07:17] <mdz> it is difficult for me to trust optical media for backups :-)
[07:17] <mdz> pitti: yes, likewise
[07:18] <pitti> mdz: these things come in a cartridge, so it's protected a little better
[07:18] <mdz> pitti: I bought 10 CD-RW, and they all failed within a few weeks
[07:18] <mdz> they came in jewel cases
[07:18] <mdz> so now I only buy DVD+RW
[07:18] <pitti> mdz: +rw is better than -rw?
[07:18] <mdz> also, I enjoy not using cdrecord anymore
[07:19] <pitti> I bought a bunch of dvd+r media for playing with, too
[07:19] <mdz> pitti: I have not tried -rw, but having found something which works very well for me, I am happy
[07:19] <pitti> cool
[07:19] <pitti> I don't really look through this format jungle
[07:21] <pitti> mdz: can you do packet writing with cd+rw?
[07:21] <mdz> yes, it is silly how many formats there are
[07:21] <pitti> mdz: dvd+rw, I mean
[07:21] <mdz> pitti: I don't know; I prefer to ignore CD formats
[07:21] <mdz> ah
[07:21] <mdz> I don't know
[07:22] <pitti> I find it difficult to accumulate 4.7 GB of data and write it in one chunk
[07:22] <pitti> right now I backup my foto collection and I want to do incremental backup
[07:23] <jdz_> lamont: something like this? dict([stringX.split(":") for stringX in listY] )
[07:23] <lamont> mdz: doesn't look like dict() will do what I want...
[07:23] <lamont> jdz_: that assumes exactly one : in each line (which is not true), but yeah, something like that...
[07:24] <mdz> lamont: I didn't realize you meant you had strings, rather than pairs (tuples)
[07:24] <mdz> probably easiest would be:
[07:25] <mdz> for pair in ['a:b', 'c:d'] : key, value = pair.split(':'); mydict[key]  = value
[07:25] <smurfix> pitti: if you don't finalize the thing you can append to an existing isofs
[07:25] <smurfix> ... or just build the file system while burning it
[07:26] <lamont> mdz: again, assumes exactly one ':' per value...
[07:26] <jdz_> lamont: I don't believe there's a function to do that already; you may have to add a filter to remove extra ":"'s
[07:26] <pitti> smurfix: maybe; however, I think packet writing finally found its way into 2.6.10
[07:26] <lamont> jdz_: sigh
[07:26] <lamont> ok
[07:27] <smurfix> pitti: sure, but still -- anyone can read isofs. I wouldn't be so sure about packet-written CDs
[07:27] <mdz> lamont: you have things like 'a:b:c' and want 'a' and 'b:c'?
[07:27] <lamont> hrm... that would work with ': ' as the delimiter....
[07:27] <mdz> lamont: if so, use pair.split(':', 1)
[07:28] <lamont> mdz: ah, cool
[07:28] <pitti> smurfix: hmm, packet writing is already soooo old, windows can do it for ages
[07:28] <pitti> smurfix: and it just uses UDF
[07:28] <pitti> smurfix: so I guess that should be no problem
[07:31] <T-Bone> fabbione: ping?
[07:39] <mdz> Kamion: I'd like to do a new d-i build with the new casper-check
[07:39] <mdz> Kamion: do you want to give it a quick eyeball and see if it looks reasonable to you?
[07:39] <mdz> it seems to work
[07:44] <metalikop> I recently upgraded to 2.1.4 and I'm getting some odd IMAP errors
[07:44] <metalikop> IMAP4 server mail.somesite.com unexpectedly disconnected: Invalid argument.
[07:44] <metalikop> upgraded _Evolution_ to 2.1.4
[07:45] <metalikop> Unexpected token in response from IMAP server mail.somesite.com: .
[07:51] <tseng> metalikop: sounds like an #ubuntu question
[07:52] <metalikop> possibly, except i'm running hoary so I thought this'd be the best place.
[07:52] <tseng> no, this is -devel as in development questions, not support on the development branch
[07:53] <tseng> thats in #ubuntu, ubuntu-users ml and bugzilla
[07:53] <metalikop> doh!
[07:53] <metalikop> my bad :(
[07:53] <tseng> no biggy, just for reference.
[07:54] <metalikop> would this be a bad time to ask about libmultisync-plugin-evolution?
[07:55] <tseng> well i cant help you with it, I use gnome pilot
[07:55] <metalikop> has some dependency issues with libe*1.2-0 (>=1.1.1)
[07:56] <tseng> you're quite right, have you grabbed the source and tried to fix?
[07:56] <metalikop> not yet, I'll give that a shot
[07:57] <tseng> it looks like this is another one of those buggers that needs rebuilt against each new e-d-s upload =/
[07:57] <metalikop> indeed
[07:57] <tseng> apt-get source l-m-e
[07:57] <tseng> cd l-m-e/debian
[07:57] <tseng> edit control to the latest build-deps
[07:57] <tseng> cd .. ; dpkg-buildpkg -rfakeroot
[07:58] <tseng> install the resulting deb in the parent dir
[07:58] <tseng> if that works, report back :)
[07:58] <tseng> (thats the kind of discussion that is appropriate here btw)
[07:58] <tseng> good luck.
[07:58] <metalikop> thx
[07:59] <tseng> may need to do an apt-get build-deps l-m-e on that as well
[07:59] <tseng> to install dependencies.
[08:02] <dholbach> tseng: gnome-launch-box will be / is such a bugger too :-)
[08:05] <T-Bone> gah, still the same failure on ubuntu-base on ia64 :(
[08:07] <tseng> dholbach: gorss
[08:07] <tseng> *gross
[08:08] <dholbach> tseng: what's gross? e-d-s dependency heck?
[08:09] <dholbach> :-)
[08:09] <tseng> yeah
[08:09] <mdz> lamont: what time of day does the daily d-i build run?
[08:09] <mdz> I think I need an additional one
[08:09] <dholbach> tseng: i guess their api will settle down at some stage :-)
[08:10] <tseng> dholbach: hopefully.
[08:11] <dholbach> btw: seb128: i get a floating point exception with evoluation (on AMD64) now too - maybe the  glb  (gnome-launch-box) exception has the same origin
[08:11] <dholbach> s/evoluation/evolution
[08:13] <Treenaks> eovulation?
[08:13] <Treenaks> (is that like mencal implemented inside of evolution?)
[08:14] <mako> mdz: woot, one of the guys from the solid arab font groups uses ubuntu and can help us with arabic bugs/support
[08:14] <mdz> mako: nice
[08:15] <T-Bone> Kamion, lamont: i'll some advice whenever possible ;P
[08:15] <mako> i'm doublechecking but i think we can close 5330
[08:15] <dholbach> Treenaks: :-)
[08:17] <Treenaks> dholbach: if mencal exported icalendar files it could work
[08:17] <Treenaks> dholbach: anyway...
[08:18] <dholbach> dholbach: sorry, i don't really know about mencal
[08:19] <dholbach> Treenaks: sorry, i don't know, what mencal is about - i just mispelled evolution and wanted to state it was broken at my place :-)
[08:20] <Treenaks> dholbach: apt-cache show mencal
[08:20] <Treenaks> dholbach: or ask amaya :)
[08:21] <dholbach> Treenaks: HAHA :-)
[08:21] <metalikop> tseng: you have a second?
[08:21] <tseng> metalikop: ok.
[08:22] <metalikop> mind if I pm you?
[08:22] <metalikop> it's okay to say no, I'll probably only be an annoyance anyways
[08:22] <seb128> dholbach: if you know how to fix it let me know, I work on i386 not amd64 ...
[08:26] <tseng> metalikop: go ahead
[08:28] <dholbach> well guys, i'm off - got a learning meeting tonight :-(
[08:28] <dholbach> *wave*
[08:31] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[08:31] <fabbione> T-Bone: pong
[08:32] <elmo> fabbione: yah?
[08:32] <fabbione> elmo: remember a while ago i was mentioning quinndiff not catching all the Packages to build? i got the same problem again on the same package
[08:32] <fabbione> elmo: what did i need to send to you?
[08:33] <elmo> Packages, Sources and your Packages-Arch-Specific
[08:33] <fabbione> elmo: ok
[08:34] <fabbione> ARGH
[08:34] <fabbione> ok
[08:34] <fabbione> it's listed in the PAS
[08:34] <fabbione> i wonder why....
[08:34] <elmo> what pkg/
[08:34] <fabbione> the reason is *cough*stupid*cough*
[08:34] <T-Bone> fabbione: any good reason not to enable altivec support in power4 kernels?
[08:34] <fabbione> ddetect
[08:35] <fabbione> T-Bone: what is altivec?
[08:35] <T-Bone> doh
[08:35] <elmo> fabbione: like MMX and SSE
[08:35] <elmo> for powerpc
[08:35] <fabbione> i don't have a ppc
[08:35] <elmo> fabbione: ddetect isn't in current Debian p-a-s?
[08:35] <fabbione> i don't know.. i got the configs from Herbert
[08:35] <fabbione> elmo: i got the PAS that is around the DC
[08:36] <fabbione> at least the one that is packaged
[08:36] <elmo> fabbione: christ knows where's that from, it's not what's on jackass
[08:36] <T-Bone> fabbione: http://www.apple.com/g5processor/executioncore.html
[08:36] <elmo> we use debian +custom entries for our ubuntu-specific packages
[08:36] <fabbione> elmo: from lamont pkgs?
[08:36] <elmo> you'd be much better with current Debian 
[08:36] <elmo> fabbione: yeah
[08:36] <T-Bone> fabbione: altivec is roughly a CPU extension that computes vectorized instructions
[08:37] <T-Bone> fabbione: in other words, it the stuff that makes the CPU rock
[08:37] <T-Bone> fabbione: so you really want it enabled by default
[08:37] <fabbione> T-Bone: ok, please file a bug.. and add zul in CC
[08:37] <stratus> it seems that altivec is like sse2 on p4 cpus
[08:37] <elmo> t-bone: assuming all machines power4 kernels work on have it
[08:37] <elmo> and/or the kernel doesn't crash if you enable it on such a machine
[08:37] <T-Bone> elmo: that's what i'm not sure of, hence my first question
[08:37] <fabbione> elmo: ok.. so can you handle me a decent PAS for sparc?
[08:38] <zul> fabbione: eh?
[08:38] <fabbione> T-Bone: ok, than please investigate
[08:38] <fabbione> zul: kernel config allignment? ;)
[08:38] <zul> fabbione: ah
[08:38] <elmo> fabbione: as I said Debian's is fine, but people.u.c/~james/ has what's on jackass
[08:39] <T-Bone> fabbione: well, hand me a R6000 and i'll tell you ;P
[08:39] <T-Bone> fabbione: i think benh would know. better ask him
[08:40] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[08:40] <fabbione> T-Bone: ok, please investigate and let me know :-)
[08:40] <T-Bone> ;P
[08:44] <fabbione> elmo: yeah.. that did it apparently
[08:45] <fabbione> i am off to cook dinner
[08:45] <fabbione> later 
[08:57] <Treenaks> hi lamont :)
[08:59] <lamont> mdz: around?
[09:00] <tseng> can anyone reupload multisync?
[09:00] <mdz> lamont: yep
[09:00] <mdz> lamont: elmo has set of the d-i builds for me
[09:00] <tseng> it needs a rebuild against e-d-s
[09:02] <lamont> mdz: if you want to toss me an ssh public key, I'll send you back a command that will let you trigger DI & liveCD builds anytime you want...
[09:03] <lamont> pitti: around?
[09:03] <azeem> tseng: I wanted to bug ogra about it
[09:03] <tseng> azeem: ya..
[09:03] <lamont> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations
[09:04] <mdz> lamont: sent
[09:04] <ogra> tseng, azeem: only libmultisync-plugin-evolution ?
[09:04] <tseng> ogra: thats one binary from the multisync source
[09:04] <tseng> ogra: i imagine you'll need to do the whole thing
[09:05] <ogra> yeah, Source: multisync
[09:05] <azeem> yeah
[09:06] <ogra> tseng: can you test it ? i only have ipaqs with linux on them :-P
[09:06] <tseng> ogra: metalikop did a test build
[09:07] <tseng> ipaqs?
[09:07] <azeem> tseng: of the latest package in unstable?
[09:07] <tseng> in hoary
[09:07] <ogra> tseng: way old pieces (first generation.....) bought but nearly never used them....silly but true :)
[09:08] <tseng> i had him do an apt-get build-dep ; dpkg-buildpkg and test the results
[09:08] <tseng> i dont have any hardware to sync to
[09:08] <azeem> well, I was going to suggest syncing with unstable, the maintainer has resurfaced and improved the syncml support considerably
[09:08] <ogra> tseng: i thought you are using it...
[09:09] <tseng> nosir, i was helping someone else who wondered why it was uninstallable
[09:09] <elmo> smurfix: ?
[09:09] <smurfix> yep
[09:09] <ogra> azeem, tseng: then its better to poke elmo to sync i think....which will initiate a rebuild anyway
[09:10] <elmo>  adelie.ubuntu.c 193.79.237.14    2 u  929 1024  377    0.235  1403.18 1403.51
[09:10] <tseng> sounds like a good plan.
[09:10] <elmo> smurfix: I've got one machine where ntp is showing that, but adelie itself is fine, and none of the other 40 machines syncing with adelie are having problems.. ever seen that kind of thing?
[09:10] <elmo> (specifically the 1403 jitter)
[09:11] <elmo> the machine itself is completely idle
[09:11] <azeem> ogra: I'll see whether it builds fine and then mail you/elmo
[09:12] <ogra> azeem: great, thanks .... (btw. ubuntu hoary ??)
[09:12] <smurfix> elmo: anyhing special about that box -- kenrle verson, etwork adapter, ..?
[09:12] <smurfix> kernel
[09:12] <ogra>  /hoary/hurd/
[09:12] <ogra> gah
[09:12] <elmo> smurfix: nope, it's almost identical to about 15 of the other 40 machines that sync with adelie and aren't showing the same thing
[09:12] <elmo> meh, and it's gone now
[09:12] <elmo> nothing helpful in syslog - will the /var/log/ntp stuff be at all useful?
[09:13] <smurfix> elmo: I assume that standard ping, tracepath, and whatnot all show absolutely zero variance in ping time et al.?
[09:13] <elmo> smurfix: it's GB LAN :)
[09:14] <elmo> anyway, don't worry now that it's gone.. if it comes back I'll check out ping etc.
[09:14] <smurfix> elmo: So? I've seen a boy where that happened too, turned out that the interrupt router to the second network card was shot
[09:14] <elmo> it made my nagios cry is all
[09:15] <smurfix> elmo: i.e. it would work perfectly whenever I logged in through the first card and started tcpdumping ;-)
[09:15] <smurfix> elmo: did you have time to do something about the stupid orig.tgz problem?
[09:15] <elmo> smurfix: yeah, I msged you?
[09:15] <azeem> ogra: dunno
[09:16] <ogra> azeem: i thought you are a hurd guy ....
[09:16] <azeem> yeah, but I'm a Ph.D. student as well ;)
[09:16] <smurfix> elmo: ... which got lost. (I hate IRCing from behind firewalls.)
[09:16] <smurfix> (esp. ones which habitually disregard keepalives and other niceties.)
[09:18] <elmo> smurfix: ah, well, I just said "fixed" :)
[09:19] <smurfix> elmo: Thanks -- did you feed the file into the pool or should I upload a -3 version?
[09:19] <elmo> upload a -3 pls, I'm interested to see if it works :)
[09:19] <elmo> if it doesn't, I'll just poolify it manually but I hate doing that
[09:20] <smurfix> elmo: OK, sent, will tell you what the mails say.
[09:33] <lamont> mdz: sent
[09:33] <lamont> mdz: note that I just added the mutual exclusion, so the builds that elmo launched for you won't stop you from trashing yourself if they haven't finished...
[09:33] <whiprush> ogra: ok, I'm all set up on the wiki, ready to do this MOTU thing.
[09:34] <elmo> lamont: they finished already
[09:34] <lamont> woot
[09:34] <mdz> yeah, I just need to wait for an rsync slot to open up now so I can actually download them
[09:34] <ogra> whiprush: cool :)
[09:35] <ogra> whiprush: chi Jorge, i'm Oli
[09:35] <ogra>  /chi/hi/
[09:35] <lamont> mdz: while ! rsync ... ; do sleep 1; done :-)
[09:35] <mdz> yeah
[09:35] <mdz> sleep 5 ;-)
[09:35] <whiprush> ogra: rock, now what do I do?
[09:36] <ogra> pitti: ping...
[09:36] <jdub> GO WHIPRUSH GO!
[09:36] <whiprush> Would something like thoggen be a good "starter" package?
[09:37] <ogra> whiprush: thoggen ?
[09:37] <whiprush> it's that gstreamer ripper/encoder thing for DVDs.
[09:38] <mvo_> whiprush: I talked with the author and he does not feel that it's quite ready yet
[09:38] <mdz> lamont: thanks for the scriptage; I'll try it out the next time I need a full set of stuff
[09:38] <mdz> yay, rsync let me in
[09:40] <ogra> whiprush: hmm, i thought about packaging this one, but since i got sucked in by the MOTU thing i'm running out of time.... http://s1x.homelinux.net/projects/serpentine <-- could make you quite famous....
[09:41] <mvo_> beside that thogen is a nice package, it even has a debian directory :) (also it needs some love)
[09:41] <lamont> mdz: glad to be able to go to bed while you pull an all-nighter... :-)
[09:42] <mdz> please test the current daily-live/current/ ; if it's good, it is going to go out as a live CD milestone release
[09:42] <whiprush> ogra: sure, I can do that. any other recommendations?
[09:42] <Kamion> mdz: did you get that d-i rebuild? I was out at dinner
[09:43] <ogra> whiprush: dont make it to hard for yourself, start with something small :)
[09:43] <whiprush> okey
[09:43] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[09:43] <mdz> Kamion: and lamont also set it up so that they can be triggered remotely
[09:43] <jdub> mdz: max connections reached :)
[09:43] <Kamion> mdz: hey, rock
[09:43] <mdz> Kamion: your key should probably be added to the auth for that
[09:43] <mdz> jdub: just keep trying
[09:43] <Kamion> yes please
[09:43] <mdz> lamont: ^^
[09:43] <lamont> Kamion: key please
[09:43] <jdub> haha
[09:43] <ogra> oh, new live cd....
[09:44] <jdub> @ERROR: max connections (15) reached - try again later
[09:44] <jdub> ...
[09:44] <jdub> @ERROR: max connections (25) reached - try again later
[09:44] <lamont> or I could gen a new one for you...
[09:44] <jdub> ...
[09:44] <mdz> jdub: it's round-robin on two servers now
[09:44] <mdz> and they're both full
[09:44] <jdub> awesome ;)
[09:44] <jdub> and bad
[09:44] <jdub> but mostly awesome
[09:44] <ogra> lol
[09:45] <lamont> need to enhance bittorrent to do hashes so we could seed the file... :-)
[09:45] <mdz> hmm, actually
[09:45] <mdz> thom: if this live build goes out as a milestone, I'm going to want torrents
[09:45] <mdz> thom: is that doable?
[09:46] <Kamion> I know the magic to do the torrents little-side
[09:46] <mdz> ok
[09:46] <mdz> and the other bit is the tracker/seeding?
[09:47] <mdz> that's it, I can't take it anymore
[09:47] <mdz> I'm patching the beeping out of growisofs
[09:47] <mdz> it beeps 5 times every time I write a disc
[09:48] <ogra> whiprush: i just see, your key isnt signed by anybody.....you will need a signature...
[09:48] <mdz> unless you specify this undocumented 20-character option
[09:48] <smurfix> mdz: ouch
[09:48] <thom> mdz: yeah, i can kick the tracker
[09:48] <lamont> mdz: on that ssh... you'll need to be buildd on the remote end, of course... :-)
[09:48] <mdz> lamont: added "User buildd" to .ssh/config
[09:48] <mdz> thom: awesome, thanks
[09:48] <Kamion> lamont: you have /msg, in case you didn't see
[09:48] <whiprush> ogra: yeah, I'm pretty new. :)
[09:48] <lamont> yeah - just sending you email Kamion 
[09:49] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[09:49] <ogra> whiprush: do you know anybody with a vlid signed key who could sign yours ? or a local LUG near you ?
[09:50] <smurfix> Or you could check with biglumber
[09:50] <whiprush> yeah this is a new key, I'll have that fixed soon.
[09:50] <ogra> whiprush: great :) 
[09:50] <lamont> Kamion: sent
[09:51] <pitti> lamont: grrrrreat!
[09:51] <ogra> pitti: hi
[09:51] <pitti> ogra: pong. Sorry, was phoning with gf :-)
[09:52] <ogra> pitti: is it intentional that vim-gtk isnt available on warty-security ? someone asked in #ubuntu-de before....
[09:52] <pitti> lamont: what does buildd-status contain exactly?
[09:52] <Kamion>    vim-gtk | 1:6.3-025+1ubuntu2.2 | warty-security/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
[09:52] <pitti> lamont: always the latest directory with stripped stuff?
[09:52] <lamont> pitti: that's the translations since I turned on stripping - please tell me that version 5 didn't turn it back off.. :-)
[09:52] <ogra> Kamion: universe ? 
[09:52] <lamont> pitti: for each of the buildd's, it contains the name of the last directory that I walked
[09:53] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[09:53] <lamont> pitti: last successfully walked, that is...  oops.
[09:53] <ogra> Kamion: strange....i thought it was in main...
[09:53] <mdz> pitti: do you intend to allow pmount to unmount by directory, rather than only by device?
[09:53] <Kamion> ogra: nope, vim-gnome is, vim-gtk isn't
[09:54] <ogra> heh, ok
[09:54] <Kamion> ogra: see also bug #3599
[09:54] <ogra> so the guy was missing  warty-security/universe in his sources list then...
[09:54] <pitti> lamont: that means the directory will change every day?
[09:55] <Kamion> ogra: yes, as that bug says we accidentally shipped warty without warty-security/universe in sources.list
[09:55] <pitti> lamont: or, rather, every day gets its own directory?
[09:55] <ogra> Kamion: ah, got it... thanks :)
[09:57] <pitti> mdz: if it's easy and robust to map it to a device, I could do that
[09:57] <pitti> mdz: I'm in the middle of producing a new upstream version anyway, so now is in fact a good time to do that :-)
[09:58] <Kamion> lamont: excellent, scripted, thanks
[09:59] <ogra> whiprush: i just see you are interested in ltsp.....thats probably a good startpoint too....
[10:00] <lamont> Kamion: yeah, and I even fixed the user name on your copy. :-)
[10:01] <lamont> pitti: so it now only updates the last date ran (in buildd-status) when it successfully walks said tree. :-)
[10:01] <ogra> mdz: obnoxious beeping ? http://www.dina.dk/~abraham/religion/vi-music
[10:01] <ogra> :)
[10:02] <mdz> gah
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion: this liev CD doesn't have any of my d-i modifications
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion: was the DI_TYPE switch flipped the wrong way or something?
[10:04] <mdz> Kamion: it does have the isolinux fix, though
[10:06] <mdz> gah, it didn't get mirrored
[10:07] <mdz> elmo: ?
[10:07] <mdz> I just re-ran anonftpsync manually, and it still isn't showing up
[10:07] <smurfix> elmo: ENOWAY. "ignoring ntp_4.2.0a+stable.orig.tar.gz, since it's already in the archive". I'm afraid you'll have to manually move the beast.
[10:07] <whiprush> ogra: yeah I'm in the same lug as jim mcquillan, we've talked about ubuntu/ltsp stuff in the past.
[10:08] <ajmitch> morning people
[10:08] <ajmitch> ogra: I saw you mention ubuntu hurd, going to work on it? ;)
[10:08] <smurfix> ajmitch: my timezone says you're two hours early with that greeting. ;-)
[10:09] <ajmitch> smurfix: sorry, it's thursday morning here :)
[10:09] <ajmitch> we just have to wait for the rest of the world to catch up
[10:09] <ogra> ajmitch: no time for such games....we'll have to wait until azeem has made his diploma *g*
[10:10] <thom> you australians have to be ahead at something i guess... ;-)
[10:10] <ajmitch> thom: pfft, I'm in NZ, not that other place
[10:11] <thom> heh, you need even more help then ;=)
[10:11] <ajmitch> we're not an australian state yet!
[10:11] <ogra> thom: nah, if they would be ahead, they would know how to drive on the correct side of the road....
[10:16] <ajmitch> ogra: recruited any other MOTUs?
[10:16] <ogra>  ajmitch, whiprush is on his way :)
[10:17] <ajmitch> great, soon it'll be down to only 3000 packages each :)
[10:17] <ogra> yay :-D
[10:19] <lamont> smurfix: what are you trying to do with ntp?
[10:20] <thom> hey lamont, know much about lwresd?
[10:23] <jdub> hooray for rsync
[10:23] <ajmitch> jdub: many savings?
[10:24] <jdub> yeah, it's pretty rad now
[10:24] <ajmitch> great, it might almost be usable for me
[10:26] <jdub> ajmitch: 
[10:26] <jdub>    550098944 100%    3.32MB/s    0:02:37  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[10:26] <lamont> thom: I know that bind9 includes it... :-)
[10:26] <jdub> wrote 164343 bytes  read 15886018 bytes  82099.03 bytes/sec
[10:26] <jdub> total size is 550098944  speedup is 34.27
[10:26] <lamont> sent 164353 bytes  received 49416730 bytes  38780.67 bytes/sec
[10:26] <lamont> total size is 550098944  speedup is 11.09
[10:26] <lamont> that machine hasn't been syncing every day
[10:27] <lamont> since rsync doesn't really do --bwlimit...
[10:27] <ajmitch> jdub: impressive
[10:27] <thom> lamont: gah :-)
[10:27] <thom> ok
[10:27] <ajmitch> although I've only got a measly 128kbit line, so I might put that in the crontab
[10:29] <ajmitch> jdub: that's for the live cd?
[10:29] <lamont> ajmitch: I saw 425kB/s, on a line that I know is limited to 256kbits
[10:29] <lamont> yeah
[10:30] <lamont> jdub: please note that amd64 (and ia64) will have occasional burps as the livecd rootfs grows too big and we have to rebuild it (and thereby trash rsync-ability for the day)
[10:31] <ajmitch> grabbing at a steady 10K/sec now :)
[10:35] <ajmitch> someone suggesting anjuta2 be packaged, released in feb - is that possible to stick at least a beta in universe before feature freeze?
[10:35] <ajmitch> hmm, beta in early feb, no release date mentioned
[10:36] <jdub> yeah
[10:36] <jdub> we're more relaxed about upstream version changes in universe
[10:36] <jdub> as long as we have someone trying them out and saying that they definitely work :)
[10:37] <ajmitch> great
[10:37] <smurfix> lamont: uploading a new version to Debian, basically
[10:37] <smurfix> lamont: ... which 
[10:38] <smurfix> lamont: ... which proved to be nontrivial; the first upload had a -dbg which elmo didn't want to accept, so I uploaded an .orig.tgz-less -2, which ended up in the pool ... *without* the orig.tgz.
[10:39] <Kamion> mdz: it was set to daily-installer; changed back to installer
[10:40] <smurfix> lamont: Needless to say, that shouldn't have happened.
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: shouldn't daily-installer have been correct?
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: isn't that where lamont's builds go?
[10:49] <Kamion> mdz: er ... d'oh
[10:49] <Kamion> mdz: quite right, changed back :-)
[10:50] <ajmitch> for a minute I thought you said 'openoffice on the hurd'.. but nobody's been brave enough to port that
[10:50] <mdz> Kamion: I didn't run cron.daily-live until elmo said the build was on mirnyy
[10:50] <mdz> I don't have access to mirnyy to check
[10:50] <lamont> (use OO.o to edit a file, run it again to edit a file with the same name in a diff directory, exit the second one, get prompted about what to do with changes, click discard, watch everything exit, scream.)
[10:50] <mdz> but it certainly didn't make it to little
[10:50] <Kamion> mdz: you can look at http://mirnyy.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ from anywhere surely
[10:52] <mdz> ah, didn't realize it was a public mirror
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: oh, hey, it's on little now
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: did you do a mirror sync?
[10:52] <mdz> maybe it works for you and not for me
[10:52] <Kamion> no
[10:52] <mdz> hmm
[10:52] <Kamion> didn't touch that
[10:52] <mdz> lrwxrwxrwx    1 cjwatson cdimage        26 Jan 26 08:01 current -> 20041227ubuntu7.0.20050125
[10:52] <mdz> lrwxrwxrwx    1 mdz      cdimage        27 Jan 26 21:13 current -> 20041227ubuntu7.0.200501260
[10:53] <mdz> anyway, doing new cron.daily-live now
[10:53] <Kamion> how can you have two symlinks both called current?
[10:54] <mdz> one is from before, the other from now
[10:54] <mdz> the first was from after I ran cron.daily-live earlier
[10:54] <mdz> the second one is wthat it looks like now
[10:55] <mdz> I think it works when I run anonftpsync by hand
[10:55] <mdz> but the mirror doesn't update when I run cron.daily-live
[10:56] <mdz> Kamion: just noticed that pxeboot.tar.gz has a config with devfs=mount,dall in it.  that's obsolete, right?
[10:58] <mvo_> mdz: live cd works fine on my test-system
[10:59] <mdz> mvo_: thanks; unfortunately it doesn't have the new pieces I needed :-/
[10:59] <mdz> I just built a new one
[10:59] <mdz> if you could try that as well, that would be great
[10:59] <haggai> dpkg-deb: building package `openoffice.org' in `../openoffice.org_1.1.3-2.3ubuntu8_all.deb'.
[10:59] <opi> mdz, give me a link :)
[10:59] <haggai> finally I am getting somewhere...
[11:00] <opi> mdz, I'm going to burn it tom.
[11:00] <mvo_> mdz: tomorrow in the morning then :)
[11:00] <opi> mdz, I'd like to leave office today ;)
[11:00] <mdz> opi: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[11:00] <opi> *click*
[11:00] <mvo_> still, the last live-cd I tested did not work as well (it hanged sometimes during hotplug)
[11:02] <elmo> mdz: boggle
[11:02] <elmo> mdz: did you get it sorted?
[11:02] <mdz> elmo: yeah, I think the problem is on little's end
[11:02] <mdz> though I have no idea why
[11:02] <mdz> the script clearly calls anonftpsync near the start
[11:02] <mdz> and there is no error in the log
[11:02] <mdz> and I think it works for Kamion
[11:03] <elmo> hmm, maybe it got smacked down by rsync limits but that didn't get logged somehow?
[11:04] <Kamion> it's not in the logfile even
[11:05] <Kamion> mdz: yes, that's obsolete, will fix
[11:05] <Kamion> erm. would fix if I could find it.
[11:05] <mdz> [11:05] <mdz> Wed Jan 26 20:26:17 GMT 2005
[11:06] <mdz> is there supposed to be rsync output below that or something?
[11:06] <Kamion> no, it's normally blank
[11:06] <Kamion> oh, it goes to rsync.log
[11:06] <mdz> anonftpsync is quiet when I run it
[11:06] <mdz> there are some permission denied errors in rsync.log
[11:07] <azeem> ogra: OK, so I resynced multisync (heh) with unstable and it builds fine again now, the (signed) source package is at http://people.debian.org/~mbanck/ubuntu-hoary/multisync_0.82-5ubuntu1_source.changes
[11:07] <mdz> rsync.log.1.gz seems to show the d-i build coming across, though
[11:07] <Kamion> that's the universe->main symlink stuff, I need to reapply my workaround
[11:07] <Kamion> rsync.log.2.gz shows an error
[11:07] <Kamion> likewise 3
[11:08] <mdz> aha
[11:08] <mdz> yeah, that's it exactly
[11:08] <mdz> elmo: can we get a username/password for little for unlimited rsync?
[11:08] <Kamion> elmo: is there any way I could have some kind of privileged rsync access from little?
[11:08] <azeem> dunno how to proceed from here, a simple sync from unstable is not possible my patch from last time is still needed
[11:08] <Kamion> heh
[11:08] <mdz> :-)
[11:08] <ogra> elmo: if i upload foreign packages, do they need to be signed by me additionally ?
[11:08] <azeem> ogra: sure
[11:08] <azeem> ogra: I'm not in the keyring
[11:09] <ogra> azeem: become a MOTU !
[11:09] <ogra> azeem: ;)
[11:09] <ogra> azeem: ok, pulling the source....
[11:09] <thom> yay, we get to have a celebrity as a MOTU
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz: seriously I don't see this pxeboot.tar.gz anywhere; only warty has pxeboot.tar.gz as far as I know (it got renamed to netboot.tar.gz), so are you sure you're looking at the right distribution?
[11:09] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, I was talking about warty
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz: you still care about warty? :-)
[11:10] <azeem> thom: from today:
[11:10] <azeem> 01:26 < nyu> azeem: dude, did you see this joke in debconf3?
[11:10] <azeem>           http://people.debian.org/~mjb/talks/debconf3/html/slide_31.html
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: I was helping someone do a net install
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: was it not obsolete yet in warty?
[11:10] <Kamion> mdz: oh. well, it's obsolete (and was in warty), but harmless; I killed it post-warty
[11:10] <azeem> ogra: I couldn't find somebody to test the packages (I'm running warty myself), but I guess it's better than right now at least
[11:10] <thom> azeem: never, ever, will they let you forget :-)
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: is pxeboot.tar.gz not automatically built or something?
[11:10] <mdz> or did it go away since warty?
[11:11] <Kamion> mdz: it went away since warty.
[11:11] <mdz> oh
[11:11] <azeem> thom: I was going to make a webpage with all my lookalikes
[11:11] <ogra> azeem: lets see.... hoary is still called unstable ;)
[11:11] <jdub>    * Disable obnoxious beeping
[11:11] <thom> there's only one true lookalike
[11:11] <jdub> mdz: wtf ?
[11:11] <mdz> Kamion: the friend I was helping was following this at first: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallFromOtherDistroHowto
[11:11] <elmo> ogra: yes, they do
[11:11] <mdz> Kamion: which basically tries to walk the user through doing what d-i does by hand
[11:11] <elmo> mdz/kamion: yeah, meh
[11:11] <ogra> azeem: but the pics match very well....
[11:12] <mdz> Kamion: it seems simpler to set up the existing system to boot a netboot d-i
[11:12] <Kamion> mdz: yarrrr
[11:12] <mdz> Kamion: which is what I was walking him through.  is there already a howto for that?
[11:12] <ogra> elmo: thanks
[11:12] <Kamion> mdz: these howtos keep popping up and I keep having to fix them
[11:12] <Kamion> mdz: no idea, TBH, sorry :/
[11:12] <ajmitch> azeem: it's almost like a mirror
[11:13] <azeem> ajmitch: http://www.geocities.com/mikes_maman/PETEMICHI.html
[11:13] <mdz> Kamion: I don't expect there should be much to it beyond downloading kernel+initrd and configuring lilo/grub
[11:13] <mdz> Kamion: trying to talk him into writing the howto along the way
[11:13] <ajmitch> heh
[11:14] <ogra> azeem: thought about working for a double agency ? ;-)
[11:14] <mdz> jdub: I guess you don't use growisofs, or don't use rewritable media
[11:14] <azeem> ogra: as I said, I'm going to do a website first
[11:14] <jdub> mdz: naw, what was the beeping? that's bong
[11:14] <mdz> dammit, wtf
[11:15] <mdz> jdub: if growisofs notices that you have a filesystem on the media already, it beeps 5 times for 5 seconds before doing what you told it
[11:15] <jdub> haha
[11:15] <mdz> which is completely stupid, because it's _rewritable_, and that's what' you _do_ with rewritable media
[11:15] <mdz> hence the "RE"
[11:15] <jdub> you have to press the NO REALLY DO WHAT I SAY button
[11:15] <mdz> Kamion: my template changes are still missing
[11:15] <mdz> maybe I fucked up
[11:15] <jdub> i hate that button
[11:16] <HrdwrBoB> that button is also disregarded
[11:16] <jdub> i should get some rw media and try it out
[11:16] <mdz> nope
[11:16] <mdz> the casper changes aren't there either
[11:16] <HrdwrBoB> eg: delete all my files please! (are you sure??) YES! .. oh wait.. crap
[11:16] <mdz> it's clearly not a new initrd
[11:16] <mdz> WTF
[11:18] <mdz> though initrd.list says it should be
[11:18] <jdub> oh man
[11:18] <jdub> i am very happy with my 52X cd burner now that it works
[11:18] <ajmitch> so are there plans for a live dvd for hoary+1? :)
[11:18] <jdub> ajmitch: possibly even for hoary
[11:18] <mdz> oh
[11:19] <mdz> powerpc is wrong
[11:19] <jdub> ajmitch: dvd with installer + live image
[11:19] <mdz> i386 is right
[11:19] <ajmitch> that could be useful
[11:19] <mdz> amd64 is correct, too
[11:19] <ajmitch> then I could spread ubuntu cheer around uni
[11:19] <mdz> elmo: are you sure that powerpc d-i upload happened?
[11:19] <jdub> all of supported :)
[11:19] <azeem> jdub: or a DVD which contains all arches?
[11:19] <jdub> only desktop seed for each though
[11:20] <jdub> but i don't think that's as useful as dvd of supported
[11:21] <Kamion> ajmitch: will do that fairly soon, not sure it'll make feature freeze as I have a lot of other things to do but I hope I can slip it in after that
[11:25] <mdz> amd64 live is golden
[11:25] <jdub> "This is the Ubuntu Live CD"
[11:25] <jdub> ACTION!
[11:25] <lamont> mdz: how was i386?
[11:26] <mdz> lamont: trying it now
[11:26] <mdz> lamont: problem is, powerpc somehow has an old d-i on it
[11:26] <mdz> or else I fucked up somehow
[11:26] <mdz> hmm, looks like I downloaded powerpc before the mirror was synched up
[11:26] <mdz> so it's probably OK
[11:27] <jdub> mdz: so where's usplash at? i'm getting testing jitters
[11:27] <mdz> jdub: sladen said ~35% ready the last time I spoke to him
[11:27] <jdub> hrm :|
[11:28] <jdub> mdz: (livecd still asks for hostname, known?)
[11:28] <mdz> jdub: the latest one doesn't
[11:28] <mdz> you must have gotten the broken set
[11:28] <jdub> oh
[11:28] <mdz> rsync the latest
[11:28] <jdub> i just synced like, 10 minutes ago
[11:28] <mdz> c4393b51dba477f9b5ddaa81f062111f  hoary-live-amd64.iso
[11:28] <mdz> c512b3e1cc389e1309104bf288fb7d85  hoary-live-i386.iso
[11:28] <mdz> 974f4d42f96d20d26327aa2950dd0ac2  hoary-live-powerpc.iso
[11:28] <mdz> those are the good ones
[11:29] <opi> mdz, should I restart too?
[11:29] <mdz> opi: yes please
[11:29] <opi> mdz, okidok
[11:29] <mdz> apologies for the confusion
[11:29] <jdub> ah smeg
[11:30] <opi> mdz, ok, donwloading it now
[11:33] <ogra> elmo: a simple debsign of the changes with my key is enough ?
[11:39] <ogra> seb128: thanks for fixing libgtksourceview-cil
[11:39] <ogra> :)
[11:39] <seb128> np
[11:40] <jdub> disk in burner more useful for burning said disk
[11:40] <thom> it tends to help
[11:40] <jdub> now it will BURN LIKE TRUFFLE!
[11:40] <mdz> i386 is good
[11:40] <thom> oh dear god
[11:42] <lamont> thom??
[11:42] <thom> lamont: ?
 oh dear god
[11:43] <thom> jdub is on a truffle kick
[11:43] <lamont> oh.
[11:43] <thom> on multiple channels
[11:43] <lamont> we should burn some for him in sydney, eh?
[11:43] <lexhider> can I attach files to a bug report or do I have to post the file contents into the comment.
[11:43] <lexhider> ?
[11:43] <HrdwrBoB> lexhider: attach
[11:43] <lamont> ogra: they're like CD's, only _LOTS_ easier
[11:43] <thom> and now debian-uk is talking about unicock; and the insanity is complete
[11:44] <mdz> powerpc is good
[11:44] <ogra> lamont: i guess they are softer then CDs afterwards...
[11:44] <mdz> I'm 3 for 3 with the current daily-live
[11:44] <mdz> amu: here?
[11:44] <mdz> amu has a live CD test plan we could run through
[11:45] <thom> mdz: i really need sleep; can i poke bittorrent in the morning?
[11:45] <lexhider> HrdwrBoB: I'm at https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=Ubuntu and I can't see where I can attach the files.
[11:45] <mdz> thom: I won't be around in your morning
[11:45] <mdz> but I guess we can do a day-long test cycle on it
[11:45] <thom> lexhider: file the bug, then attach after
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: do you want them published under releases?
[11:46] <mdz> Kamion: wherever you put the array stuff is fine
[11:46] <mdz> I'm not sure what to call it
[11:46] <Kamion> mdz: any particular name?
[11:46] <thom> mdz: if that's ok with you, great
[11:46] <lamont> mdz: note that you're not using this mornings livecd rootfs, since that didn't build...
[11:46] <mdz> I wanted to sync it with array-3, but that didn't happen
[11:46] <mdz> so it's sort of array 3.5 live
[11:46] <mdz> lamont: that's ok
[11:46] <Kamion> could call it array-3.5-live if you like :-)
[11:46] <mdz> lamont: that should be fixed now, btw (the gnomemeeting/libpw stuff)
[11:46] <lamont> mdz: was just a note...
[11:46] <thom> 'night
[11:47] <ogra> night thom
[11:47] <mdz> Kamion: if no one has a better idea...
[11:47] <azeem> ogra: debsign asks you whether you want to keep the old sig, just say no and generate a new one
[11:48] <azeem> or maybe it only asks you if it's from the same key, dunno
[11:48] <ogra> azeem: got everything ready already... just wanted to avoid additional work for elmo....trying the upload....
[11:49] <azeem> hey, I'm not pressed :)
[11:49] <HrdwrBoB> lexhider: looks like it's changed, and doesn't allow that anymore
[11:49] <azeem> just wanted to point that out
[11:49] <ogra> azeem: but i tend to forget things f i leave them lying around ;)
[11:51] <Kamion> sigh, of course changes I make to the cdimage archive are getting merrily corrupted on their way out to mirrors at the moment
[11:52] <elmo> uh?
[11:52] <Kamion> archive == baz archive
[11:52] <T-Bone> Kamion: i got the lsb-base issue once again
[11:52] <mdz> jdub: any luck with the daily?
[11:53] <jdub> mdz: um, now my burner is crapping out
[11:53] <Kamion> T-Bone: will need to see error messages for it to make any sense
[11:53] <elmo> ah
[11:53] <jdub> cdrecord: OPC failed.
[11:53] <mdz> cdrecord is crap, and so are writable CD media
[11:53] <jdub> cdrecord: Success. send opc: scsi sendcmd: no error
[11:53] <jdub> CDB:  54 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[11:53] <jdub> status: 0x4 (CONDITION MET/GOOD)
[11:53] <jdub> cmd finished after 60.040s timeout 60s
[11:53] <jdub> cdrecord: OPC failed.
[11:53] <jdub> 
[11:53] <mdz> haha
[11:53] <mdz> CONDITION MET/GOOD
[11:53] <jdub> i have no idea wtf that means
[11:54] <jdub> success no error
[11:54] <mdz> it means cdrecord is a steaming heap of dung
[11:54] <jdub> crapsmackula
[11:54] <mdz> if it weren't for ubuntu-desktop testing I would purge it
[11:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: the message doesn't make sense at all. As i reported, it says base-install can't be installed because it depends on lsb-base which is not going to be installed
[11:54] <Kamion> "base-install"?
[11:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: chroot & running apt-get -f install fixes the issue
[11:55] <Kamion> there is no such package
[11:55] <T-Bone> ubuntu-base
[11:55] <T-Bone> sorry
[11:55] <srbaker> trying to build subversion with ENABLE_JAVAHL
[11:55] <mdz> T-Bone: that means you have broken packages
[11:55] <srbaker> and it fails trying to call a command called "none"
[11:55] <mdz> read the log
[11:55] <srbaker> what the hell?
[11:56] <T-Bone> Kamion: then after apt-get -f install, if you start again the install process saying ok to use a dirty target, it fails again on some other package
[11:56] <mdz> mako: can you help me cook up a live CD milestone announcement?
[11:56] <Kamion> T-Bone: should I have the logs in e-mail somewhere?
[11:56] <srbaker> ahhhhhh
[11:56] <srbaker> it couldn't find javac
[11:56] <mako> mdz: yes sure
[11:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: the bit about dirty targets is there because it's known not to work, so I'm not too surprised about the latter bit
[11:57] <T-Bone> Kamion: i'll try to get them to you
[11:57] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[11:57] <T-Bone> Kamion: ok
[11:57] <ogra> yay, katie likes me :)
[11:57] <mako> mdz: got notes/etc?
[11:57] <lexhider> I have successfully created the bug report and am attaching files as we speak. I'd like to make the point that it is counter-intuitive to not be able to attach files until the bug report has already been filed.
[11:57] <mdz> mako: just in my head
[11:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: just /var/log/messages should be ok
[11:57] <T-Bone> Kamion: actually the funny thing is that it doesn't fail for the usual reason (awk symlink)
[11:57] <mdz> mako: shall I email you?
[11:57] <Kamion> lexhider: yeah, bugzilla sucks, we're not going to be keeping it forever
[11:57] <mako> mdz: sounds good
[11:57] <T-Bone> it fails on ubuntu-base, but while installing some other package
[11:57] <srbaker> ahh
[11:57] <srbaker> apparenlty it set JAVAC to "none"
[11:57] <srbaker> what the FUCK?
[11:57] <T-Bone> Kamion: old on I'm booting the box. I have saved the logs on the HD
[11:57] <mako> mdz: i'm working on a couple other announcements at the moment so i'm the zone :)
[11:58] <T-Bone> fabbione: ping?