[12:01] <mdz> mako: sent
[12:01] <mako> mdz: i'm going to finish up this kernel team thing for fabbione first
[12:02] <mdz> mako: ok, I'd like a few more success reports anyway
[12:02] <ogra> jdub: the wiki design contest ends on 31. jan ?
[12:04] <lexhider> ogra: yes
[12:04] <ogra> hm, k
[12:05] <HrdwrBoB> is packages.u.o on a timeline of some sort or am I pipe dreaming
[12:06] <T-Bone> Kamion: mail sent
[12:07] <mdz> HrdwrBoB: it is on a timeline
[12:08] <Kamion> T-Bone: thanks
[12:08] <T-Bone> np
[12:11] <mdz> anyone else tested the live daily yet?
[12:16] <lamont> fire call
[12:36] <jdub> mdz: ELITE
[12:36] <mdz> jdub: works?
[12:37] <jdub> very nicely
[12:37] <jdub> with less interaction between keymap and desktop, it feels faster
[12:38] <jdub> mdz: the packages don't seem to be utterly recent though - correct?
[12:38] <mdz> jdub: they're about a day old, I think
[12:38] <jdub> hmm
[12:38] <jdub> i guess that makes sense
[12:38] <mdz> jdub: /casper/filesystem.manifest has details
[12:38] <mdz> this morning's live image build failed because desktop was uninstallable again
[12:39] <jdub> gnome stuff is very recent
[12:39] <jdub> oh?
[12:39] <mdz> may have been a few days old, due to the same problem, in fact
[12:39] <mdz> the gnomemeeting/libpw/libopenh323/whatnot thing
[12:39] <mdz> just got fixed today
[12:39] <jdub> oh
[12:39] <jdub> yeah
[12:40] <jdub> (gar gnomemeeting and pw/oh323)
[12:41] <mako> mdz: ok, don't see your email...
[12:41] <mdz> mako: Jan 26 15:03:22 localhost postfix/smtp[3020] : A1CAEB8704: to=<mako@canonical.com>, relay=mail.alcor.net[68.168.78.100] , delay=15, status=sent (250 Message received: 20050126230124.CKUM20444.mta13.adelphia.net@mizar.alcor.net)
[12:42] <mdz> mako: I'll just /msg
[12:42] <mdz> it's short
[12:43] <mako> mdz: thanks
[12:45] <mako> mdz: do you think we should send this to announce?
[12:45] <mdz> mako: absolutely
[12:45] <mako> that's like 1 gazillion people
[12:45] <mako> good
[12:45] <mdz> if you think we need to wait until we have a .torrent, it will have to wait until tomorrow
[12:45] <Kamion> mdz: so do you want it in /release/ now?
[12:45] <opi> mako: reply-to announcement?
[12:45] <mdz> I have no idea how many people will actually download it
[12:46] <mdz> Kamion: so far it works for me and jdub
[12:46] <mdz> Kamion: do you think you will have a chance to test it tonight?
[12:46] <mako> mdz: lots.. this will goto lwn
[12:46] <Kamion> mdz: very unlikely, sorry
[12:46] <mdz> maybe we should wait overnight
[12:46] <Kamion> the box on which I have the last iteration of the live CD is currently building kernels and generally confused
[12:46] <mdz> in the morning, thom can make .torrents and you guys can send out the announcement before I get up
[12:47] <mako> if i can get my frickin cd drive to work i can test it
[12:47] <mdz> mako: oh, something else to include in that mail
[12:47] <mdz> mako: LWN published this random email I sent to ubuntu-devel with a very very rough live CD link
[12:47] <mdz> mako: so make sure we emphasize that this is a proper milestone release
[12:47] <Kamion> FWIW published CD dailies and releases should now have an MD5SUMS.gpg detached signature created with the cdimage signing key
[12:48] <mdz> goody
[12:48] <mako> nice!
[12:48] <Kamion> I meant to have that for array-3 but forgot to baz commit
[12:48] <mdz> elmo: is the code for db.d.o available anywhere?
[12:49] <elmo> mdz: err, I think joey randomly restored it on cvs, yah
[12:49] <mdz> elmo: for some reason, I've never been able to change my 'l' attribute via the email gateway, though I can change other stuff
[12:49] <elmo> 'l' ?
[12:49] <mdz> the LDAP location attribute, 'l'
[12:49] <ajmitch> elmo: how often do you do dam account creation for debian?
[12:49] <Kamion> elmo: did you see my sync request for groff? do I need to mail that instead?
[12:49] <mdz> or locality or whatever
[12:50] <mdz> it's listed as one of the things supported by the mail gateway
[12:50] <mdz> but it ignores me
[12:50] <elmo> mdz: it's possible that got broken in the rush to use newsamosa for LDAP
[12:50] <elmo> Kamion: I saw it, it's going to be my test package for the new sync stuff as I thoughnt you said it wasn't urgent
[12:51] <Kamion> elmo: oh ok, no problem
[12:51] <Kamion> indeed it's not urgent, just checking it didn't get lost
[12:51] <elmo> ajmitch: there isn't a set timetable
[12:51] <ajmitch> right
[12:51] <ajmitch> just itching to get some package uploaded :)
[12:52] <mdz> elmo: /debian-admin/userdir-ldap sound right?
[12:52] <elmo> mdz: that looks like joey's latest crack yeah
[12:54] <mdz> fuck cvs
[12:54] <mdz> elmo: I can't get it via pserver, and I can't get it via ssh because CVS likes to write to things to check them out over ssh
[12:58] <ogra> ajmitch: the ctypes diff.gz is still wrong in your archive, is this the diff for the source build you made ?
[01:00] <ajmitch> ogra: hmm, what version?
[01:00] <ajmitch> there will be other files in there
[01:00] <ogra> ctypes_0.6.3-3ubuntu1.diff.gz    
[01:00] <ogra> its ot the one for ctypes_0.6.3-3ubuntu1_source.changes 
[01:00] <ogra>  /ot/not/
[01:01] <ajmitch> ok, I'll recopy it
[01:01] <ajmitch> I'm working on 2 boxes, so some files might have got out of sync
[01:02] <kent> btw, very few updates in the update-notifyer in Hoary seem to have changelogs to look at. Perhaps it takes to much time to write them for the developers? or is the notifyer just not getting them, since.. i guess changelogs are being written, it would be kind of bad if they were'nt, or?
[01:02] <mako> mdz, et all: is there a download location for the cd?
[01:02] <ogra> ajmitch: rather drop te binary packages in there and ony upload the source packages built with debuild -S or similar
[01:02] <ajmitch> ogra: md5sum matches now 
[01:02] <ajmitch> yeah, I was doing a quick job there, so I didn't really plan it :)
[01:03] <mako> also, is there a location for the daily builds
[01:04] <mdz> mako: not yet, I don't think
[01:05] <mdz> mako: Kamion was asking whether to go ahead
[01:05] <ogra> ajmitch: now the dsc is still wrong...
[01:05] <mdz> if we're going to wait and send it tomorrow, we may as well wait to publish it
[01:06] <ajmitch> ogra: check again
[01:06] <mdz> mako, Kamion: let's wait
[01:06] <mdz> tomorrow we'll have torrents, and hopefully more testing too
[01:06] <mdz> I expect a lot of downloads
[01:07] <ajmitch> ogra: it may be going a little slow, I'm rsyncing the daily live cd
[01:14] <mako> mdz: that sounds reasonable
[01:15] <mako> what should i do with this text?
[01:15] <pitti> night everybody!
[01:15] <mako> the announcement text?
[01:16] <ogra> night pitti
[01:16] <ajmitch> g'night pitti 
[01:16] <mako> pitti: night
[01:16] <mdz> jdub: can you add something to the topic on #ubuntu about testing the live CD?
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: is a CD image dated 2005-01-19 sanely rsyncable?
[01:18] <lamont> Kamion: didn't happen until at least 1-20
[01:18] <Kamion> kent: erm ... we definitely write changelogs for every new version of a package, it's a technical requirement
[01:18] <Kamion> lamont: damn
[01:20] <mako> mdz, Kamion: ignore the wiki text and just grab it out of the edit window
[01:20] <jdub> mdz: let me know when there's a better url than http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[01:20] <mako> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDAnnouncement
[01:21] <jdub> rockin
[01:21] <ajmitch> hegdehodge?
[01:21] <kent> Kamion, yes, i assumed that. But the update notifyer dont seem to show many of them. For example, just recently i upgraded some packages when the update notifyer showed me there was some new packages. None of them had a changelog to view. (there is an option to show changelog in the update-notif..)
[01:21] <Kamion> jdub: sounds like mdz prefers me to wait until tomorrow to move to /releases/
[01:21] <mako> ajmitch: fixed
[01:21] <Kamion> kent: you'd want to ask mvo about that, or just file a bug
[01:22] <nicedreams> what is the serial module called to mount serial drives?
[01:22] <nicedreams> is it loaded by default?
[01:22] <jdub> Kamion: then it'll have torrent love?
[01:22] <Kamion> jdub: only once thom applies love, but yeah
[01:22] <jdub> ok
[01:22] <jdub> already getting questions
[01:22] <ajmitch> other errors on the page..
[01:23] <Kamion> if you want it now, I should move it to releases now; don't want to torrent dailies
[01:23] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[01:23] <mdz> Kamion: 2005-01-19?
[01:23] <jdub> oh man
[01:23] <Kamion> mdz: that question is obsolete :-)
[01:23] <lamont> mdz: he got his answer
[01:23] <ajmitch> mako: 'will touch', or 'will not touch'?
[01:23] <mdz> Kamion: what's the new question?
[01:23] <Kamion> 00:23 < Kamion> if you want it now, I should move it to releases now; don't want to torrent dailies
[01:23] <ajmitch> heh
 mako, Kamion: let's wait
 tomorrow we'll have torrents, and hopefully more testing too
[01:24] <mdz> jdub: gah, I didn't mean to link to the announcement
[01:24] <mdz> jdub: that announcement is unannounced
[01:24] <mdz> jdub: I want pre-announcement testing
[01:24] <Kamion> yes but you won't have torrents until I move it to releases and therefore people testing tonight can't bittorrent
[01:24] <jdub> heh
[01:24] <mdz> Kamion: that's fine
[01:24] <mdz> I just want torrents before it goes to ubuntu-announce
[01:24] <Kamion> although ... bleh, thom went to bed so it doesn't matter anyway
[01:25] <jdub> switched back
[01:25] <mdz> right
[01:25] <mdz> jdub: thanks
[01:27] <mako> mdz: the announcement is not only announced.. it's also unfinished
[01:27] <mdz> jdub: can you add me to the chanserv access list for #ubuntu?
[01:27] <mako> mdz: there are big holes where permentant urls should be  :)
[01:27] <mdz> if I'm going to be an IRC weenie, I may as well be able to do stuff
[01:27] <mako> ajmitch: will not touch
[01:29] <mdz> Kamion: please disable the daily-live cron job for tomorrow
[01:29] <Kamion> you're not linking people to /current/ are you?
[01:29] <jdub> mdz: do have a sane/usual hostmask atm?
[01:29] <mdz> Kamion: I am in the topic
[01:29] <mdz> I suppose i could change it
[01:29] <Kamion> that's crack, link to a date :)
[01:29] <mdz> jdub: not really, but I have that nickserv authentication mojo
[01:29] <ogra> ajmitch: you have the wrong distribution in your changelog file in ctypes....(there is no unstable in ubuntu)
[01:29] <Kamion> mdz: disabled anyway
[01:30] <jdub> ok, sorted
[01:30] <Kamion> mako: I've filled in one of those URLs
[01:30] <Kamion> mdz: (you know you don't need operator privileges to change the topic in #ubuntu-devel, right?)
[01:31] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, that was me cut-and-pasting thom's example
[01:32] <ajmitch> ogra: curses, that's my emacs habits coming to haunt me :)
[01:33] <ajmitch> ogra: they'll all be like that then
[01:33] <mdz> Kamion: you mentioned that it required some extra foo to get a copy of /casper/filesystem.manifest next to the iso
[01:33] <mdz> that would be very useful to have
[01:33] <ogra> ajmitch: please cokerrect it.....i'll have to go to bed soon, so take your time and dont worry, i made the same mistake ;)
[01:33] <ogra> heh -ke
[01:33] <mdz> otherwise I can't confirm what's in the images on little
[01:34] <ajmitch> ogra: sure, I'll try & work on them today 
[01:34] <lamont> mdz: is the rootfs manifest already there?
[01:35] <mdz> lamont: yeah, Colin gets it from you already
[01:35] <mdz> it just isn't published in the dir with the isos, but it's included inside the iso
[01:35] <lamont> ok.
[01:35] <mdz> but since I can't loop-mount it on little...
[01:35] <lamont> would be nice if it was published too...
[01:36] <lamont> or is that casper.manifest?
[01:36] <mdz> casper.manifest == cloop contents
[01:36] <mdz> hoary-live-$ARCH.list == iso contents
[01:36] <lamont> ok
[01:38] <mdz> and initrd.list == udeb list
[01:38] <mdz> casper.manifest and initrd.list are only inside the iso at present
[01:38] <mdz> though for initrd.list, I think debian-cd records the version of d-i it used, so you can look it up indirectly
[01:45] <Mithrandir> elmo: why is the elf_x86_64 search path for binutils /usr/lib and not /usr/lib64 (and friends) (on i386)?
[01:47] <elmo> no idea?
[01:49] <Mithrandir> don't you maintain it? :)
[01:50] <elmo> yeah?  doesn't mean I use it on amd64
[01:50] <Mithrandir> it's on i386.
[01:50] <elmo> for amd64
[01:50] <Mithrandir> true.
[01:51] <Mithrandir> but you might know why it was that way.
[01:51] <Mithrandir> I'll whack it and get it to change, then
[01:51] <elmo> I doubt there's a good reason
[01:51] <elmo> amd64 was enabled the same way all the other targets are
[01:51] <elmo> all the other !host targets are for binutils-proper (non-multiarch)
[01:52] <elmo> and by the previous maintainer or an NMUer
[01:53] <Mithrandir> hm, ok.  I should probably look at what eg sparc64 is doing.
[01:54] <jdub> fabbione: new inotify is in -mm
[01:54] <lamont> hoary-live-powerpc.iso
[01:54] <lamont>      2275303   0%    1.05kB/s  164:22:23
[01:54] <lamont> hrm... :-(
[01:55] <lamont> maybe I'll run into town tonight
[01:55] <ajmitch> still dowloading at 12k/sec here
[01:55] <elmo> for once, it's not the servers
[01:56] <mdz>    622643200 100%    4.08MB/s    0:02:25  (3, 100.0% of 3)
[01:57] <Mithrandir>   115500672  20%   13.51MB/s    0:00:32
[01:57] <Mithrandir> ah
[01:57] <Mithrandir> life is good
[01:57] <Kamion> mdz: manifest> ok, I'll try to do that tomorrow
[01:57] <Kamion> mdz: you can use isoinfo to extract individual files from an ISO image; you don't have to loop-mount it
[01:57] <Kamion> mdz: try isoinfo -R -i foo.iso -x /casper/filesystem.manifest
[01:58] <mdz> Kamion: oh, nice
[01:58] <mdz> sent 15864860 bytes  received 505347 bytes  58153.49 bytes/sec
[01:58] <mdz> seems like my uplink is the bottleneck there
[01:58] <mdz> I wonder if -z helps at all
[01:59] <Mithrandir> sent 166454 bytes  received 10360603 bytes  107969.82 bytes/sec
[01:59] <mdz> I don't imagine checksums compress too well
[01:59] <mdz> oh, wrong rsync, never mind ;-)
[01:59] <mdz> sent 330970 bytes  received 14919096 bytes  44787.27 bytes/sec
[01:59] <mdz> that makes more sense
[01:59] <elmo> gar, why does debsign insist on they're being a .dsc?  horrible broken thing
[02:00] <mdz> isn't that the whole point of debsign?
[02:01] <mdz> I guess it does it in-place too
[02:01] <elmo> yeah
[02:02] <elmo> would having the origin of the sync in the From field be useful?
[02:02] <elmo> i.e. I could make the maintainer be "Sync From Debian Unstable <sync@ubuntu.com>"
[02:02] <elmo> or is that just tacky?
[02:03] <elmo> I'm going to put an Origin-URL: and Origin-Suite: in the .changes too
[02:03] <mdz> doesn't much matter
[02:13] <dholbach> re
[02:25] <jdub> what's an example of a package that generates a dummy .pem file during install?
[02:26] <Mithrandir> dovecot-imapd, probably.
[02:26] <Mithrandir> apache2 too
[02:26] <Kamion> do we care if generating a kickstart file for Ubuntu requires a current Ubuntu system?
[02:27] <Kamion> i.e. if the graphical application to do so needs bits of current Ubuntu, like, er, xserver-xorg
[02:27] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it would be nice to avoid, certainly, but not a requirement, IMHO.
[02:27] <Kamion> I guess depending on xserver-xorg is slightly crack, but it would be nice to be able to pull out its debconf templates
[02:27] <Mithrandir> heh
[02:28] <Mithrandir> grab it from somewhere and run apt-extracttemplates on the .deb?
[02:28] <Kamion> ew
[02:29] <jdub> Mithrandir: thanks, nice example in dovecot-common.postinst
[02:30] <Kamion> hm, except that that won't work anyway since xserver-xorg substitutes in choices for xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/mouse/protocol programmatically
[02:32] <Mithrandir> jdub: you might want to look at ssl-cert, though
[02:32] <dholbach> isnt there a evolution-data-server-1.2 process any more?
[02:33] <jdub> Mithrandir: handy!
[02:33] <Mithrandir> jdub: it needs a bit of love, but I hope we can make that happen
[02:34] <jdub> $ apt-cache rdepends ssl-cert
[02:34] <jdub> ssl-cert
[02:34] <jdub> Reverse Depends:
[02:34] <jdub>   schooltool
[02:34] <jdub>   schoolbell
[02:34] <jdub>   apache-ssl
[02:34] <jdub>   apache2-common
[02:34] <jdub> 
[02:34] <jdub> :-) :-)
[02:35] <Mithrandir> :)
[02:35] <jdub> though it seems to be commented out in apache2-common's postinst
[02:45] <Kamion> SteveA would have a heartattack at some of the python code in system-config-kickstart
[02:45] <Kamion> it has TABS in it
[02:45] <Kamion> RANDOMLY
[02:46] <Kamion> and wildly inconsistent indentation and style otherwise
[02:48] <daniels> tabs are love
[02:49] <Kamion> hey, I use them happily in C code, but
[03:23] <lamont_r> morning fabbione 
[03:26] <elmo> ping reconnect
[03:27] <lamont_r> figures
[03:42] <toresbe> Kamion: tabs are best used to confuse whoever dare touch your code ;)
[03:43] <lamont_r> tabs are your friend.  changing tabstop values is evil.
[03:44] <lamont_r> of course, if you're evil enough to change tabstops, then that should be documented at the top of every file, and consistantly violated across the entire source tree...
[03:52] <lamont_r> cdrom on my laptop is throwing errors and won't eject... bummer.
[03:54] <Kamion> fabbione: the bug was introduced between 2.6.9-bk1 and 2.6.9-bk2. Given the weird way that grub's Unix shell works, I think I'm going to bet on http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/gnupatch@41752e4eX1Y99rE-GhfPoRzKlwh85g as my favourite candidate.
[03:55] <Kamion> i.e. non-exec stack broke grub's nested functions ...
[03:57] <elmo> wouldn't the kernel be broken on modern p4's if that were the case?
[03:57] <elmo> s/the kernel/grub/
[03:58] <Kamion> you'd think so, but maybe something else is broken in the ia32 emulation code that means personality flags don't get emulated properly, or something like that
[04:00] <elmo> does booting with noexec=off fix it??
[04:01] <elmo> s/?$//
[04:01] <Kamion> good question, I'll try that in the morning - well past bedtime now
[04:01] <Kamion> if so that would be a fun workaround for our CDs
[04:02] <Kamion> fun in the sense of "piss everyone off"
[04:02] <lamont_r> Kamion: where's your sense of humor, eh?
[04:09] <lamont_r> 50% sigh
[04:24] <stuNNed> hi, thanks, will beagle be in hoary at all or is it just too new?
[04:27] <jdub> stuNNed: it will probably turn up in universe
[04:27] <jdub> daniels: ping
[04:27] <stuNNed> jdub: thanks man, have a good one
[04:30] <lamont_r> well, time to head home.
[04:33] <daniels> jdub: represent
[04:39] <tseng> daniels: h to the izz-eh
[04:40] <jdub> daniels: libdbus-cil?
[04:41] <daniels> jdub: building now
[04:41] <daniels> jdub: it's a pain though
[04:59] <jdub> elmo: ping
[05:00] <tseng> daniels++
[05:20] <mdz> gah
[05:20] <mdz> jdub: LWN has some misinformation about the live CD that needs correcting
[05:20] <mdz> don't have time to write them right now though
[05:21] <tseng> hiya ogra 
[05:22] <daniels> mono, how I hate thee
[05:23] <tseng> daniels: hm dbus-cil builds for me from source, i have working bins
[05:23] <tseng> daniels: whats broke?
[05:23] <daniels> tseng: just dealing with the /usr/lib/mono clusterfuck
[05:23] <tseng> oh, that craptastical
[05:32] <sivang> mdz: what do we need to write them?
[05:32] <sivang> Morning all!
[05:32] <tseng> hey, sivang 
[05:33] <sivang> hey tseng , what's cooking?
[05:34] <tseng> nm duder, playing with muine cvs again
[05:38] <lamont> mdz: just a tad bit wrong, isn't it...
[05:38] <daniels> tseng: (also, doing the merge in to 0.23)
[05:40] <tseng> daniels: when youre done, you can be my hero
[05:40] <ajmitch> daniels: hmm, it used to be /usr/share/mono, interesting to see they changed it to /usr/lib
[05:41] <tseng> ajmitch: http://wiki.debian.net/?MonoConventions < you used to be able to read this
[05:42] <ajmitch> yes, I helped with some of that initially
[05:42] <sivang> does anybody know if the screen resolution changer in gnome is part of g-s-t ?
[05:42] <ajmitch> tseng: I package pnet, the other clr :)
[05:44] <tseng> sivang: 
[05:44] <tseng> brandon@lappy:~/work/muine $ dpkg-query -S `which gnome-display-properties`
[05:44] <tseng> capplets: /usr/bin/gnome-display-properties
[05:44] <sivang> tseng: k, tnx :)
[05:44] <tseng> np
[05:45] <daniels> tseng: yeah, I think I'm done now -- just building Beagle to test
[05:47] <ajmitch> apart from the fact that nearly all these -cil packages depend on mono-jit | mono-mint
[05:48] <tseng> -nearly
[05:48] <ajmitch> I was hoping there'd still be a few that depended on cli-virtual-machine
[05:51] <ajmitch> not that it matters yet, since I've got to get pnet patched properly
[05:52] <tseng> :D
[05:53] <tseng> daniels: any feelings on libgtk-cil2?
[05:54] <daniels> tseng: on the what now?
[05:54] <tseng> gtk-sharp-1.9.x
[05:54] <tseng> its parallel install dealy
[05:55] <jdub> mdz: ok, will mail
[05:55] <tseng> muine uses it so far, f-spot was using it and went back.. its gtk 2.4 bindings
[05:55] <daniels> tseng: no idea, sorry
[05:56] <tseng> ok.
[05:56] <daniels> jdub: enjoy
[05:56] <tseng> the muine maintainer has source up that works
[05:56] <jdub> daniels: uploaded?
[05:56] <tseng> ill poke at it later
[05:56] <daniels> jdub: fo'sho
[05:56] <jdub> rawk
[06:08] <fabbione> morning
[06:09] <daniels> ciao bella
[06:09] <fabbione> ahah
[06:19] <fabbione> daniels: may i assign you a FTBFS on cyrus-sasl?
[06:19] <fabbione> daniels: cyrus B-D on libtool1.4, that isn't in main
[06:20] <fabbione> point is that it might need some libcrap love to be fixed
[06:20] <daniels> fabbione: sure
[06:20] <fabbione> and i think germinate didn't catch it properly
[06:22] <jdub> mdz: sent, cc'ed
[06:23] <lamont> fabbione: you were looking for me many hours ago?
[06:23] <fabbione> lamont: hmmmm not that i remember...
[06:23] <lamont> ok
[06:24] <fabbione> it must have been < wishlist
[06:24] <fabbione> otherwise i would :-))
[06:24] <lamont> heh
[06:24] <lamont> fwiw, -11lamont1 built fine, with just that one change (and rename both 00-list files, of course)
[06:24] <lamont> s/rename/copy/
[06:24] <fabbione> lamont
[06:24] <fabbione> i have it fixed in my local tree for -12 already
[06:25] <lamont> fabbione: right.  was just confirming to you that there is no additional fix required
[06:25] <fabbione> # arch   version  flavour       installedname        suffix build-depends
[06:25] <fabbione> hppa     2.6.10-2    hppa32            2.6.10-2-hppa32           y 
[06:25] <fabbione> hppa     2.6.10-2    hppa64            2.6.10-2-hppa64           y
[06:25] <fabbione> lamont: cooll
[06:26] <fabbione> daniels: 5924
[06:26] <daniels> fabbione: thanks
[06:28] <fabbione> jdub: i think the main reason why d-i failed is because of the udebs in the archive..
[06:28] <daniels> Maintainer: Warty/i386 Build Daemon <buildd@rockhopper.buildd>
[06:28] <daniels> lamont: surely that should be Ubuntu/i386?
[06:29] <fabbione> jdub: but i will see to stop the buildd after the new d-i and do a test install
[06:32] <lamont> daniels: sigh.  that'll change sometime soon
[06:33] <lamont> daniels: changed locally, I'll push a new buildd-config sometime soon
[06:33] <daniels> lamont: cheers
[06:33] <lamont> daniels: it's only been that way since day one.
[06:42] <fabbione> ah lamont
[06:42] <fabbione> i just remembered
[06:42] <fabbione> oh well good night :-)
[06:42] <jdub> fabbione: you rolling a new kernel soon?
[06:42] <fabbione> jdub: no, i am still bug hunting
[06:43] <jdub> ok
[06:43] <fabbione> what do you need?
[06:43] <jdub> would like inotify 0.18 -> file a bug?
[06:43] <fabbione> or better.. do you have a fix for inotify?
[06:43] <fabbione> ok. nah i will just do it
[06:43] <fabbione> no need for a bug
[06:43] <jdub> ok
[06:43] <fabbione> will that possibly fix 5431?
[06:44] <jdub> http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/inotify/v2.6/0.18/
[06:44] <jdub> should do
[06:44] <jdub> let me know; i have a gamin to upload as soon as that's ready
[06:44] <fabbione> -9.patch is ok?
[06:45] <fabbione> or do you want me to grab 2.6.11 ?
[06:45] <jdub> -9 please
[06:45] <fabbione> ok
[06:46] <lamont> fabbione: what?  still trying to get to bed, you see...
[06:46] <jdub> fabbione: thanks :)
[06:47] <fabbione> lamont: the PAS file you ship in the package is obsoleted..
[06:47] <fabbione> lamont: elmo had to give me one from the DC
[06:48] <fabbione> lamont: and you never told me if the gcc-opt patch i gave to you, make any sense
[06:48] <fabbione> i didn't deploy it yet...
[06:49] <lamont> new gcc-opt in the repository, implements something similar to your patch.. I streamlined it a bit
[06:49] <lamont> which PaS file... /me looks around
[06:50] <fabbione> lamont: elmo gave me one that is on people.u.c/~james
[06:50] <lamont> fabbione: I don't see a PaS file in any of the packages there...
[06:50] <fabbione> that is different from the one in the packages
[06:50] <lamont> which package?
[06:50] <fabbione> it should be shipped in quinn-diff?
[06:51] <lamont> ah, quinn-diff is stock debian, and yeah - that PaS file wouldn't have any relation to the real one - maintained in cvs
[06:51] <fabbione> ahhh
[06:51] <jdub> argh, why do people attempt to run random things as root when stuff doesn't work?
[06:51] <lamont> jdub: because they _think_ they know what they're doing, of course
[06:52] <lamont> anyway, sleep for real now
[06:52] <jdub> night
[06:53] <fabbione> night lamont
[06:54] <fabbione> jdub: inotify updated.
[06:59] <jdub> thanks! :)
[06:59] <fabbione> *cough*beeeer*cough*
[07:01] <daniels> fabbione: you'll get a coopers
[07:01] <fabbione> daniels: until it's not that retarted aussie beer....
[07:01] <daniels> dude, coopers is love
[07:01] <daniels> unlike php4's build system
[07:02] <daniels> which is COMPLETE ARSE
[07:02] <daniels> *ahem*
[07:03] <fabbione> ehhe
[07:06] <sivang> whee, ubuntu shipps Gnoppix now
[07:06] <sivang> ?
[07:08] <jdub> gnoppix is based on ubuntu
[07:08] <jdub> daniels: hey, just doing gmime now :)
[07:10] <daniels> jdub: phat
[07:14] <sivang> jdub: since when did they start to use it? I knew they were using debian (the project exists for a couple of years now ,no?)
[07:14] <jdub> around the beginning of the hoary cycle
[07:14] <jdub> amu is mr. gnoppix.
[07:15] <jdub> amu is also mrs. kubuntu.
[07:15] <sivang> heheh
[07:15] <jdub> (haggai wears the pants.)
[07:15] <sivang> amu: nice to know that :)
[07:15] <sivang> hehe
[07:15] <sivang> well, those children have good parent :)
[07:16] <sivang> jdub: regarding -il list, would you prefer I bugged smurifx with that rather then you?
[07:16] <sivang> ;-)
[07:17] <jdub> nup
[07:17] <jdub> doing list admin stuff atm
[07:17] <jdub> also, it was delayed for loco team/leader confirmations
[07:18] <sivang> jdub: ah ok, I have to run for a couple of hours (chors, errands) could you mail me the details?
[07:18] <sivang> chores even
[07:18] <jdub> yes
[07:18] <sivang> jdub: I will be the list admin right?
[07:23] <sivang> ah, am here for a couple'o minutes
[07:25] <jdub> unfortunately, there's no hebrew translation of mailman
[07:26] <jdub> but please make the description and summary hebrew if it accepts it :)
[07:26] <bob2> is there a Plan for handling hardware that needs weirdshit software installed to make it useful? e.g you can't modify the screen brightness on vaio;s unless spicctrl is installed.
[07:26] <jdub> not an all-embracing amazing plan, no
[07:27] <jdub> but i imagine that PowerManager will start sucking up some of that
[07:27] <jdub> pulling the code into a common location, etc.
[07:28] <bob2> hm, I think I mean more getting the stuff installed
[07:29] <sivang> jdub: I will for sure, thanks, although I am not sure hebrw is going to be used as the main lang on it ;-) Some of us also prefer to use english for technical terms and technical discussion :)
[07:30] <jdub> english is for the weak
[07:30] <jdub> bob2: seems cruddy to install all sorts of deeply specific crap
[07:51] <aj> "I don't know why, but until now I'd gotten the impression that Ubuntu was a Mac-only distro."
[07:51] <fabbione> lol
[07:52] <fabbione> aj: where did you read that?
[07:52] <zenrox> ya
[07:52] <aj> local LUG list
[07:52] <zenrox> lol
[07:52] <zenrox> welp thay are wrong
[07:53] <zenrox> x86 here
[07:53] <jdub> aj: bizarre ;)
[07:53] <fabbione> jdub: it must be another aussie fucks up.. like foster
[07:53] <fabbione> :)
[07:53] <daniels> fosters is made in the uk
[07:54] <fabbione> what's the name of au fucked up beer than?
[07:54] <aj> hey, it's the rest of the world that buys fosters not .au
[07:54] <fabbione> aj: ahha i know :-)
[07:54] <daniels> fabbione: the fucked up beer is fosters
[07:55] <fabbione> it's like Peroni for Italy 
[07:55] <daniels> fabbione: but the only people that buy it are the english, like thom
[07:55] <daniels> so they brew it in the uk, for the english market
[07:55] <fabbione> daniels: clearly
[07:55] <jdub> "export quality" means quite a different thing in .au
[07:55] <jdub> neighbours, home and away, fosters...
[07:55] <jdub> (this actually came up on lugradio interview this morning)
[07:55] <aj> what about kylie!?!
[07:56] <infinity> aj : Foster's is the second or third most popular beer in .au, I'm sorry to report.
[07:56] <infinity> Beaten by VB nearly everywhere, and FourX in QLD.
[07:56] <infinity> No accounting for taste, I guess.
[07:56] <infinity> Americans drink Bud and Coors, so it's not like they can talk.
[07:57] <Clint> the British drink Bud and Coors, so it's not like they can talk.
[07:58] <daniels> infinity: Er, I hardly ever see Fosters.
[07:58] <aj> infinity: that's only meaningful if people drink the same beer though; having 90% of beer being 500 different brands means you only need 6% market share to be most popular, eg. no idea what the actual stats are
[07:58] <daniels> jdub: they interviewed you?
[07:58] <infinity> daniels : And you're luckier for it.  I'm merely quoting some shit statistic I found somewhre. ;)
[07:58] <daniels> #@O$*I@#$#$OUPI@#$L:K@#$
[07:58] <daniels> daniels@nanasawa:~/canonical/php4% dpkg-deb -c php4-imap_4.3.10-2ubuntu1_i386.deb | grep imap.so
[07:58] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root     88912 2005-01-27 17:58:03 ./usr/lib/php4/20020429/imap.so
[07:58] <infinity> aj : Oh, well, yes.  Of course.
[07:58] <daniels> SUCCESS
[07:59] <daniels> HA HA HA PHP4
[07:59] <infinity> aj : Same goes for Canadian beers, AFAICT.  Molson Canadian is by far, "#1" but that doesn't mean much.
[07:59] <jdub> daniels: yeah, at 8am this morning
[07:59] <daniels> jdub: nice
[07:59] <infinity> daniels : ?
[07:59] <jdub> daniels: almost
[07:59] <infinity> daniels : Is poor php giving you issues?
[08:00] <daniels> infinity: libc-client-dev is in universe (for very good reason), so I had to make php4-imap into a separate source package
[08:00] <daniels> infinity: which meant conquering php's build system
[08:00] <daniels> AGH
[08:02] <infinity> daniels : cp -a ext/imap ../foo ; cd ../foo ; phpize
[08:02] <infinity> daniels : Was it really any harder than that?
[08:03] <daniels> infinity: hmph, didn't know about phpize
[08:03] <daniels> and both the php docs and google were staggeringly unhelpful on this front
[08:03] <infinity> daniels : Live and learn, I guess. :)
[08:03] <daniels> ohw ell
[08:03] <daniels> heh
[08:03] <infinity> daniels : I need to get some sort of README.extension.packaging or something in php4-dev, I guess.
[08:08] <fabbione> ram0: rw=0, want=16666, limit=16384
[08:08] <fabbione> argh
[08:11] <fabbione> does anybody remember if the OBP on sparc can pass args to the kernel booting via net?
[08:14] <fabbione> yeah it works :-)
[08:15] <fabbione> jdub: where did you say ubuntu6 was looping?
[08:16] <jdub> initialising the fb
[08:16] <jdub> and starting the menu system
[08:16] <fabbione> ubuntu7 seems to work here
[08:16] <fabbione> but again.. i am headless
[08:16] <fabbione> so perhaps the fb fails more cleanly
[08:17] <fabbione> anyway as soon as elmo is awake can bless d-i properly
[08:17] <fabbione> boot net ramdisk_size=18000 DEBCONF_PRIORITY=low
[08:18] <fabbione> i need to go and check the defaults for sparc d-i for ubuntu8
[08:18] <fabbione> otherwise it is a royal pain to install
[08:55] <fabbione> AH AHHHH
[08:55] <fabbione> silo wasn't installed.. 
[08:56] <jdub> daniels: gmime is up
[09:00] <fabbione> Ubuntu Configuration                                                            
[09:00] <fabbione>  .. Welcome to your new Ubuntu system!                                        .. 
[09:14] <fabbione> jdub: i am running hoary on sparc
[09:14] <fabbione> and i fixed the serial console problem :-)
[09:14] <jdub> heh
[09:14] <jdub> rad :)
[09:14] <fabbione> yes.. there are still problems in d-i that needs fix
[09:20] <pitti> Moin moin
[09:21] <mvo_> moin pitti 
[09:22] <Kamion> fabbione: nailed down the kernel problem quite a bit ... it was a change between 2.6.9-bk1 and 2.6.9-bk2 that enabled noexec stack by default
[09:23] <Kamion> fabbione: /sbin/grub does have a PT_GNU_STACK section with the 'x' bit set, though, which should bypass the noexec stack; I think there's something wrong with noexec handling in the ia32 emulation code
[09:26] <jdub> feh, gotta package a bunch of other stuff for optimal beagle action
[09:26] <whiprush> jdub: do you mean beagle-friendly gmime?
[09:26] <whiprush> bah. dreams. crushed.
[09:27] <jdub> heh
[09:27] <jdub> yeah ;)
[09:27] <jdub> but dude
[09:27] <jdub> there's no:
[09:27] <jdub> evolution-sharp
[09:27] <jdub> gsf-sharp
[09:27] <jdub> gst-sharp
[09:27] <jdub> and i have to talk to thom about beagle.xpi for firefox
[09:28] <whiprush> yeah but those are optional. 
[09:28] <whiprush> just a small taste would be pimp.
[09:28] <whiprush> even without those it's still pretty damn good. I'm finding porn I thought I lost years ago.
[09:28] <jdub> evo, gsf and firefox at least are optional but insane to not ship
[09:28] <whiprush> right
[09:28] <whiprush> I was thinking kneejerk short term.
[09:29] <jdub> we're pretty much sorted for kneejerk short term now
[09:29] <whiprush> the tbird option built for me also
[09:29] <whiprush> although the --enable-network one blew up in my face.
[09:29] <jdub> oh, that's not listed on the wiki (tbird)
[09:29] <whiprush> I don't know if that's to index smb shares or whatever.
[09:29] <whiprush> yeah it's in the .5 release notes.
[09:30] <pitti> sivang: ping
[09:30] <whiprush> although, I've had it indexing for a good 6 hours and it's still only doing the evo local folder stuff.
[09:30] <whiprush> dunno what the deal is with that
[09:30] <jdub> haha
[09:30] <jdub> yeah, what is the network one?
[09:31] <whiprush> no idea
[09:31] <whiprush> it searches my smb mounts wether I specify it or not, same with the blogs.
[09:33] <jdub> yeah, network beagled stuff
[09:40] <pitti> Hi seb128!
[09:40] <fabbione> hi guys
[09:42] <seb128_> hey pitti & fabbione 
[09:42] <seb128_> hate hate hate evolution
[09:43] <pitti> seb128_: right, it doesn't support vim :-) (SCNR)
[09:43] <seb128_> the damned new version doesn't allow to add new accounts, the "next" button in the wizard doesn't work
[09:43] <seb128_> pitti: no every single version is fucked, that's the most GNOME software ever
[09:43] <seb128_> most *bugged*
[09:44] <Kamion> amd64 live CD works fine for me
[09:44] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[09:44] <Kamion> hi
[09:44] <fabbione> Kamion: did you succeed to find the kernel change that blocks amd64?
[09:45] <fabbione> (btw i just managed another hoary installation on sparc... preparing a patch for d-i, but i will need some hint on a few details)
[09:45] <Kamion> fabbione: scroll up
[09:45] <fabbione> (only when you have time)
[09:45] <fabbione> i did ping time out
[09:45] <Kamion> oh
[09:45] <fabbione> the server kicked me out
[09:45] <Kamion> fabbione: nailed down the kernel problem quite a bit ... it was a change between 2.6.9-bk1 and 2.6.9-bk2 that enabled noexec stack by default
[09:45] <fabbione> sorry
[09:45] <fabbione> :(
[09:45] <Kamion> fabbione: /sbin/grub does have a PT_GNU_STACK section with the 'x' bit set, though, which should bypass the noexec stack; I think there's something wrong with noexec handling in the ia32 emulation code
[09:46] <fabbione> Kamion: ahhhh.... interesting
[09:46] <Kamion> fabbione: the exact patch that introduced the problem is http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/gnupatch@41752e4eX1Y99rE-GhfPoRzKlwh85g, but it shouldn't just be backed out or anything
[09:47] <fabbione> did anybody send a mail to upstream?
[09:47] <Kamion> fabbione: haven't yet but I will do
[09:47] <Kamion> I'm going to see if I can come up with a patch first
[09:47] <Kamion> jdub: shall I tag the live CD as a release now, do you think?
[09:48] <jdub> looking good to me
[09:48] <dholbach> hai
[09:48] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. that sounds cool.
[09:49] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm a *lot* further on than I was yesterday, at any rate
[09:50] <fabbione> sounds even more cool :-)
[09:50] <fabbione> but i think if you mail upstream they wil give you a patch pretty fast
[09:52] <Kamion> I don't intend to hack at it too long without help
[09:52] <Kamion> fabbione: who's the relevant upstream? just LKML?
[09:53] <fabbione> yes that would be more than enough
[09:57] <Kamion> oh, booting with noexec=off is a workaround (but crappy)
[09:58] <fabbione> i agree.. it should be fixed upstream...
[10:02] <jdub> pitti: around?
[10:02] <pitti> jdub: yes
[10:04] <jdub> pitti: have you looked at fuse much?
[10:05] <pitti> jdub: enough to like it :-)
[10:05] <jdub> heh
[10:05] <pitti> jdub: however, I was told that there were some serious design issues with ti
[10:05] <jdub> okay, perfect
[10:05] <pitti> jdub: so it probably won't go upstream
[10:05] <jdub> hmm; it has been added to -mm, so i had the impression those were sorted to an extent?
[10:06] <pitti> jdub: but in general I think that level makes more sense than gnome-vfs /kioslave / etc
[10:06] <pitti> jdub: really? cool!
[10:06] <jdub> i'm trying not to hold a strong opinion either way ;-)
[10:06] <jdub> so, my question;
[10:06] <pitti> jdub: the advantage to gvfs is that you can use that stuff everywhere
[10:06] <pitti> at the shell level
[10:06] <jdub> yeah, i grok the differences ;)
[10:07] <jdub> so have you thought about the interaction between pmount and fuse?
[10:07] <pitti> jdub: what do you mean in particular?
[10:07] <pitti> jdub: you can already mount fuse stuff as normal user
[10:07] <jdub> eh?
[10:07] <jdub> perhaps i have not looked at fuse recently enoguh...
[10:09] <jdub> oh
[10:09] <jdub> oh
[10:09] <jdub> i'm confusing the way it works with a different crackful solution
[10:19] <Kamion> jdub: URL in topic is the release
[10:21] <jdub> heh
[10:21] <jdub> 3.5 ;)
[10:23] <jdub> heh:
[10:23] <jdub> http://www.beaglewiki.org/index.php/Starting%20a%20D-BUS%20Session%20Bus
[10:24] <jdub> summary: blahblahblhalhbhalhsalhalhbalabhba "ubuntu is set up with a session bus by default" bhlkalhalbalhablahblhablhablhablahblahba
[10:24] <pitti> jdub: just read the kernel changelog. craaaack!
[10:25] <pitti> jdub: a friend of mine told me that some guy wrote a kioslave plugin for fuse
[10:25] <jdub> yeah
[10:25] <pitti> jdub: imagine: gnome-vfs gets a fuse backend
[10:25] <jdub> someone's already written one :)
[10:25] <pitti> jdub: then you can do gvfs -> fuse -> kioslave -> shell
[10:26] <jdub> heh
[10:47] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
[10:50] <fabbione> jdub: can you try to boot with people.u.c/~fabbione/mini.iso ?
[10:50] <fabbione> jdub: it should fix the initrd problem
[10:55] <fabbione> Kamion: can you kindly queue up http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/d-i-silo.diff for next d-i release?
[10:55] <Kamion> fabbione: sure; I'd prefer to handle it via ${RAMDISK_SIZE} though, I'll do that
[10:56] <Kamion> fabbione: only matters for the mini.iso as far as I can tell? we'd need to check debian-cd as well
[10:56] <fabbione> Kamion: yes. so do i, but it is not done upstream either
[10:56] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. that was one of the next questions..
[10:56] <Kamion> I'd change it upstream except I can't test it
[10:57] <fabbione> mdz asked (kinda kidding) for sparc images...
[10:57] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not sure about all the logic behind it and looking at the other .cfg i got a bit scared..
[10:57] <fabbione> but i know that right now we cannot provide images yet (due to pyopengl FTBFS)
[10:58] <fabbione> Kamion: remember when i was talking about the "Continue without bootloader"?
[10:58] <fabbione> i found why, but i need a hint for the fix...
[10:58] <fabbione> basically silo doesn't get installed
[10:59] <fabbione> what package do i need to look at?=
[10:59] <Kamion> no, it's because silo-installer isn't installed
[11:00] <Kamion> or not configured successfully or whatever
[11:00] <Kamion> if you don't see any errors before "Continue without bootloader", it's simply that silo-installer isn't installed
[11:00] <fabbione> after i install silo in /target the option "Install bootloader" is there
[11:01] <Kamion> oh, THAT'S why I said silo-installer was brain-dead
[11:01] <Kamion> it doesn't apt-install silo
[11:01] <Kamion> I'll fix that, I know how
[11:01] <fabbione> Kamion: ok that would rock!
[11:01] <fabbione> thanks
[11:01] <Kamion> but if I forget please try to remember the word "apt-install" :)
[11:02] <fabbione> ahah ok.. i can just check myself if you are too busy.. don't worry
[11:03] <Kamion> fabbione: could you try this in place of the line in config/sparc/miniiso.cfg that installs silo.conf into $(TEMP_CD_TREE)/boot?
[11:03] <Kamion>         ./ramdisk-size-subst $(BASE_TMP)miniiso/initrd.gz < boot/sparc/silo.conf > $(TEMP_CD_TREE)/boot/silo.conf
[11:03] <Kamion>         chmod 644 $(TEMP_CD_TREE)/boot/silo.conf
[11:03] <Kamion> oh, and put ${RAMDISK_SIZE} in the right places in silo.conf
[11:03] <fabbione> sure....
[11:06] <fabbione> Kamion: would that be enough to apply the changes to tftpboot too i guess
[11:08] <Kamion> tftpboot.sh doesn't look like it depends on the initrd size at all
[11:08] <fabbione> eh it does...
[11:09] <fabbione> somehow...
[11:09] <fabbione> i did test the netboot with and without the silo changes
[11:09] <fabbione> and i got the expected results
[11:10] <Kamion> ok, it's not at all obvious how though
[11:10] <Kamion> the string 'silo' isn't mentioned anywhere other than miniiso.cfg
[11:11] <fabbione> yeah.. i am building now..
[11:12] <fabbione> Kamion: next.. i have a design issue...
[11:12] <fabbione> basically choose-mirror with DEBCONF_PRIORITY=high
[11:12] <fabbione> doesn't ask for the mirror
[11:12] <Kamion> we fucked that up
[11:12] <fabbione> that means that it will loop with errors
[11:12] <Kamion> we should just revert most of that to Debian IMHO
[11:13] <fabbione> well that was sabdfl demand not to ask for the mirror
[11:13] <Kamion> in other words it *should* ask for a mirror, so everyone doesn't have to come to archive.ubuntu.com
[11:13] <Kamion> we have to persuade him otherwise; it's not sane as it is
[11:13] <fabbione> Kamion: and be able to use unofficial repos
[11:13] <Kamion> indeed
[11:14] <fabbione> because i was thinking about 2 possible solutions to keep Mark happy
[11:14] <Kamion> mind you, when sabdfl asked that IIRC archive.ubuntu.com wasn't in the list and you had to enter it manually
[11:15] <fabbione> we can:
[11:15] <daniels> mdz: ping
[11:15] <fabbione> a) build the list of mirrors and have a check for official/unofficial arches
[11:15] <fabbione> b) introduce somekind of boot option (DI_UNOFFICIAL)
[11:15] <fabbione> the latter will force to ask for the mirror
[11:16] <fabbione> since the arch might not be in the official repos
[11:16] <Kamion> the mirror question is valuable - essential even! - for official architectures too
[11:16] <Kamion> the way it is at the moment, I waste huge amounts of bandwidth every time I test netboot
[11:16] <daniels> Kamion: you know the solution to that, right
[11:17] <Kamion> daniels: I suppose I could move to Australia and have no bandwidth at all
[11:17] <fabbione> Kamion: i agree.. do you want me to revert the choose-mirror changes?
[11:17] <Kamion> fabbione: how about I talk to Mark?
[11:17] <daniels> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -m mac --mac <whatever> -d archive.ubuntu.com -J DNAT --to-dest local.mirror
[11:17] <Kamion> daniels: bit crap when I actually *want* to check what's on archive.ubuntu.com :P
[11:17] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.
[11:17] <Kamion> tho' cool hack
[11:18] <daniels> Kamion: well, just enable it for that machine when you netboot
[11:18] <Kamion> so wrong, so wrong
[11:19] <Kamion> the unofficial arch thing might be useful for defaults, but really there isn't a single sane default for the mirror on netboot installs
[11:19] <Kamion> we can get away with not asking on CD installs because CD installs don't require installing anything from the network, and after the install has completed you can change the mirror in synaptic
[11:20] <Kamion> but a 500MB download for every box you netboot is just totally so far beyond acceptable it isn't funny
[11:20] <fabbione> Kamion: you can also use DNS zone views
[11:21] <fabbione> where the same zone resolvs differently given who is asking
[11:21] <fabbione> and point archive to the local mirror only from a certain ip
[11:21] <fabbione> and to the real one if using another ip
[11:21] <fabbione> that's more fun than using NAT ;)
[11:24] <Mithrandir> can't it be set as a boot parameter?
[11:25] <haggai> what do I do with a bug that is effectively an ITP that has been assigned to my package?
[11:25] <haggai> uh, RFP
[11:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes, but that only makes sense for stuff only some people need to set; for netboot I think most people want to pick a local mirror
[11:27] <Kamion> and therefore it should be asked
[11:28] <thom> are livecds ready to be torrented?
[11:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: a hack is to set a parameter which tells choose-mirror what priority the mirror question should be asked at, and having that set by the build scripts depending on netboot or not.
[11:28] <Kamion> thom: oh, I need to create the metafiles, one sec
[11:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: choose-mirror isn't used in CD installs at all
[11:29] <fabbione> Kamion: that change seems to work.. let me rediff :-)
[11:29] <Kamion> so it doesn't matter ... every image containing choose-mirror wants to ask the question
[11:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, so the priority of the question in choose-mirror should just be bumped, then?
[11:29] <fabbione> that would be enough
[11:30] <Kamion> right, but it was lowered because sabdfl told us to lower it
[11:30] <fabbione> with default to a.u.c
[11:30] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[11:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: then we should whack sabdfl until he agrees it should be raised. :)
[11:30] <Kamion> right
[11:32] <pitti> sjoerd: I upgraded to hal 0.4.7 an hour ago. afterwards I started h-d-m and suddenly my system had a permanent cpu usage of 100%
[11:32] <Kamion> thom: .torrents should be on mirrors or syncing to them now
[11:33] <pitti> sjoerd: however, this remained even after killing hald, and after reboot everything was alright again
[11:33] <pitti> sjoerd: did this ever happen to you?
[11:33] <sjoerd> nope, never seen that behaviour
[11:34] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, I try that upgrade again, if it works, then the error was something else
[11:34] <pitti> thanks
[11:34] <daniels> thom: counsel?
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/d-i-silo.diff
[11:35] <thom> daniels: eh?
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: your change works fine and the other bit to change in silo.conf
[11:35] <daniels> thom: as in, can I borrow your
[11:35] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, got it
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: cool thanks
[11:35] <thom> daniels: certainly. sup?
[11:35] <Kamion> fabbione: the chmod should be in there though, otherwise it's umask-dependent
[11:35] <Kamion> anyway, in my tree
[11:36] <daniels> thom: php4-imap is a separate source package in universe, and declares a dependency on php4-common (= ${Source-Version})
[11:36] <daniels> thom: do I a) loosen it, or b) take the hit and ensure it's never out of sync, although that falls apart at the first security update to Hoary since php4-imap won't get updated when php4-common does?
[11:37] <thom> daniels: do as python modules do, depend on the exact upstream version
[11:37] <thom> that shouldn't be too onerous or break too hard
[11:37] <jdub> thom: so i uploaded gmime built against mono
[11:37] <daniels> coo
[11:37] <daniels> cheers
[11:37] <jdub> thom: which means we have everything we need for beagle
[11:38] <jdub> thom: but there are optional things that i wouldn't really regard as optional...
[11:38] <thom> jdub: mozilla extension?
[11:39] <jdub> thom: gsf-sharp (ms docs), ephy plugin (need to support 1.6), firefox plugin (xpi, how?), evolution-sharp, etc.
[11:39] <jdub> thom: i think whiprush and arslinux dudes are going to try out some of the other mono packages
[11:40] <thom> jdub: right
[11:41] <thom> i think we can just ship the firefox extension in firefox; don't think that's too onerous
[11:41] <jdub> perhaps put a reference to beagle in the copyright or something
[11:41] <thom> yeah
[11:41] <jdub> all the source is there, so it's reasonable
[11:42] <jdub> thom: hrm, actually, why don't we ship it in beagle as a system-installed xpi?
[11:42] <jdub> thom: does it have to be registered or something?
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. do you want me to check adding the chmod ?
[11:43] <Kamion> no need
[11:43] <fabbione> ok
[11:46] <jdub> thom: (given that firefox is in main and beagle is in universe)
[11:47] <fabbione> if ! apt-install silo ; then
[11:47] <fabbione>         info "Calling 'apt-install silo' failed"
[11:47] <fabbione> fi
[11:47] <fabbione> Kamion: i guess that's what you mean by apt-install ;)
[11:48] <thom> jdub: could do, actually
[11:49] <thom> Kamion: so it's array-3.5-live, right?
[11:52] <seb128> elmo: planner sync please
[11:54] <dholbach> timidity is not installable at the moment (new version in debian fixes it (now uses libflac6))
[12:00] <jdub> dholbach: cool, to request a sync:
[12:00] <jdub> - build and test the sources from unstable
[12:00] <jdub> - mail ubuntu-devel proposing to sync the version you tested
[12:00] <jdub>   (saying that you tested it :)
[12:01] <jdub> - mdz or myself will confirm and request that elmo do the sync
[12:01] <dholbach> jdub: ok, i'm at it
[12:02] <fabbione> food time
[12:02] <ajmitch> morning
[12:03] <Kamion> thom: right
[12:03] <Kamion> fabbione: yeah, it's done upstream, just needs backporting
[12:06] <thom> Kamion: they're up
[12:07] <Kamion> thom: cool
[12:09] <Kamion> jdub: updated announcement with URLs
[12:14] <jdub> Kamion: cool!
[12:14] <fabbione> Kamion: i couldn't find the upstream repo for silo-installer...
[12:14] <sivang> jdub: err, mailmain won't display the hebrew letters in the list's name correctly, could you tell me how you see the text?
[12:14] <fabbione> Kamion: i think i am blind :-)
[12:15] <jdub> sivang: yeah, totally broken; don't worry about it then :)
[12:16] <sivang> jdub: ok, I am writing  an english decriptin, I know that in messages hebrew passes corretly, but I'll give it another couple of tests.
[12:17] <daniels> thom: ping
[12:17] <thom> daniels: ack
[12:18] <Kamion> fabbione: /packages/arch/sparc/silo-installer/ in d-i; we should take the upstream fix because it includes full translations of error messages and stuff
[12:18] <Kamion> and correct error handling, which the above isn't :)
[12:19] <daniels> thom: i have no idea what I just pinged you about
[12:19] <thom> you suck
[12:19] <thom> as much as JD
[12:19] <daniels> hm, maybe that was it
[12:21] <fabbione> Kamion: cool..
[12:23] <jdub> thom: oof, beagle with firefox extension is *sweet*
[12:25] <thom> heh
[12:28] <jdub> thom, daniels: did you guys ever make a basic beagle package?
[12:28] <jdub> thom, daniels: i'm tempted to just run with it and make one
[12:30] <daniels> jdub: never tried, sorry
[12:30] <daniels> i've only ever run it twice, for about 30sec each
[12:32] <jdub> ok
[12:33] <sivang> hey ogra 
[12:33] <ogra> hey sivang...
[12:33] <fabbione> new kernel on the way
[12:33] <ogra> sivang: i still miss you there: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[12:34] <ogra> :)
[12:35] <Kamion> fabbione: mdz said I could do what I thought was sensible with the installer anyway
[12:35] <fabbione> Kamion: eheh :-)
[12:36] <fabbione> Kamion: i was thinking to uplaod the SVN version as 0.99
[12:36] <fabbione> and give it a spin
[12:36] <fabbione> joshk can't actually test it
[12:36] <fabbione> we can only both benefit from it
[12:36] <fabbione> food is ready.. bbl
[12:37] <Kamion> fabbione: let me talk to joshk; I'd rather upload it as 1.00 to experimental, there's no real point being shy with version numbers
[12:37] <Kamion> joshk can't test it?
[12:38] <edd> fabbione: rock (re bluetooth)
[12:41] <sivang> ogra: an already a member :)
[12:41] <ogra> sivang: no MOTU yet ;)
[12:42] <ogra> sivang: MOTU is a requirement for maintainer...you know this i thought...
[12:44] <sivang> ogra: yeah, I am working on this :) 
[12:45] <ogra> great, we need more people....urgently...
[12:46] <ogra> ...so it would be nice to see you approved as a MOTU in the next meeting....
[12:49] <fabbione> edd: welcome :-)
[12:49] <fabbione> Kamion: actually .. i can just build it locally and stick it in the localudebs, can't i?
[12:49] <fabbione> Kamion: my issue with upload was just to get it in the archive to be able to test ti
[12:49] <fabbione> s/ti/it
[12:50] <principerobo1> hi
[12:50] <principerobo1> I have a problem with the battery status monitor
[12:50] <principerobo1> Can someone help me?
[12:53] <moyogo> which modern input method is ubuntu planning to use: XIM, IIIMF, SCIM, UIM?
[12:54] <thom> principerobo1: #ubuntu for users questions, please
[12:54] <principerobo1> Hi, there is a bug in my Ubuntu kernel. The ACPI don't detect my battery
[12:54] <fabbione> principerobo1: did you check bugzilla already?
[12:55] <fabbione> and please -> #ubuntu
[12:55] <principerobo1> yes
[12:55] <fabbione> bug number?
[12:55] <fwiffo> #5861
[12:55] <fwiffo> :o)
[12:55] <fwiffo> i have the same issue
[12:56] <principerobo1> :-)
[12:56] <fabbione> ok please move to #ubuntu now
[12:56] <fwiffo> rgr
[01:07] <fabbione> principerobo1: i don't provide personal service. ask in #ubuntu and wait for somebody to answer.. not everybody is always awake at this time
[01:10] <fabbione> bah they should REALLY stop asking me stuff in private
[01:11] <fabbione> Kamion: there was a big netsplit (again)... 
[01:12] <seb128> lamont: kick the gedit build please
[01:12] <fabbione> if i put silo udeb in d-i/localudebs would that work?
[01:12] <fabbione> (at least for testing it)
[01:13] <Kamion> fabbione: silo-installer? yes, should do I think
[01:13] <Kamion> fabbione: or just wget it at run-time and install it with 'udpkg -i'
[01:13] <Kamion> (though any new debconf templates won't be properly installed that way - bug somewhere, probably cdebconf)
[01:13] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. can i install it at anytime or there is a particualr time slice i should do it?
[01:14] <fabbione> do it/use
[01:14] <Kamion> after other installer components have been retriever
[01:14] <Kamion> retrieved
[01:15] <fabbione> ok
[01:15] <Kamion> you won't need the new templates unless apt-install silo fails so it should be ok
[01:16] <Kamion> but if it does fail the postinst will probably fall over entertainingly
[01:16] <fabbione> i just builded the entire package...
[01:17] <fabbione> abelli: ping
[01:19] <abelli> fabbione: dong
[01:20] <fabbione> abelli: you are still the leader for the italian community right?
[01:20] <abelli> yes
[01:20] <abelli> or supposed to
[01:20] <abelli> be
[01:20] <fabbione> ok
[01:21] <Kamion> has smurfix approved that?
[01:21] <fabbione> smurfix: ?
[01:21] <abelli> Kamion: im sorry yes
[01:21] <Kamion> ok
[01:21] <Kamion> just checking, smurfix is country team god
[01:22] <smurfix> Just check the table in the wiki.  ;-)  If last-edit is by me, it's authoritative.
[01:24] <seb128> elmo: could you do the gazpacho sync so ?
[01:26] <ogra> smurfix: wow, we get a jamaican team ? col
[01:26] <ogra> cool
[01:29] <elmo> seb128: yeah, I'm doing my daily archive grudge work atm
[01:29] <seb128> elmo: cool, thanks
[01:38] <elmo> hmm, for entirely NEW packages, I guess we don't want the entire changelog do we
[01:41] <seb128> we don't care I think :)
[01:42] <seb128> elmo: libart-lgpl gnome-mime-data libgail-gnome syncs too please
[01:42] <elmo> seb128: you'd care when we import something with a 1Mb changelog :-P
[01:43] <seb128> :)
[01:57] <daniels> elmo: php4-imap?
[02:00] <fabbione> Kamion:      |                    SILO installation successful                    |     
[02:00] <fabbione> looks good to me...
[02:00] <fabbione> i will tell you soon how much it broke...
[02:03] <elmo> daniels: dude, you need to get your "are we there yet" under control
[02:04] <elmo> I'd processed it about 30 mins before you asked and it's pretty bloodly clearly non-urgent anyway
[02:06] <infinity> Anything depending on c-client should probably have its own archive section anyway.
[02:06] <infinity> dontusethisitscrap, or something.
[02:09] <thom> youllburninthefiresofhellforthis
[02:16] <Kamion> elmo: is "Auto-Sync" the right name?
[02:16] <Kamion> seeing as it's, er, kinda manual at the moment
[02:16] <elmo> I asked about this last night and got a big "\/\/hatever" type resonse
[02:16] <Kamion> "disable building against internal mozilla"
[02:17] <Kamion> the idea of having an internal mozilla is just too scary
[02:17] <elmo> it's right in the sense that it's an unmodified automated sync from Debian; it's only choice of packages to sync that isn't
[02:17] <Kamion> ah right
[02:17] <elmo> I dunno, better name suggestions are welcome
[02:18] <elmo> in any event groff was clearly a bad test package, as the .dsc is already signed by a ubunut.. meh.. now I don't know whether to replace the .dsc signature with the automatic one, or to keep it and modify jennifer to not check the .dsc signature for imported packages
[02:19] <Kamion> seems better to have a valid .dsc I'd've thought, since it ends up in the archive
[02:19] <elmo> how do you mean valid?
[02:20] <Kamion> verifiable signature
[02:20] <elmo> well it is.. just with the Debian keyring ;)
[02:20] <Kamion> oh, I thought you were adding fields to the .dsc, like you do with the .changes
[02:20] <elmo> that's option 3/c/iii/whatever of course, is modify jennifer to validate the signature against the union of debian and ubuntu keyrings
[02:21] <Kamion> that's kind of semantically correct, given that our source is the union of what Debian and Ubuntu do
[02:21] <elmo> Kamion: I generate the .changes - there's no where public to pull them from (or they don't exist for !Debian) - everything else is unmodified
[02:22] <Kamion> of course I suppose you could argue that we sign everything that we pull from Debian to confirm that we meant to pull it
[02:26] <fabbione> Kamion: i think we are almost there... :-) 2 things left to get a 100% success installation
[02:27] <fabbione> Kamion: something is not handling inittab properly.. debian does.. and one package missing from main :P
[02:27] <fabbione> but i will dig in them tomorrow.. i am getting too much headacke today
[02:27] <fabbione> thanks for the help :)
[02:28] <elmo> oh, meh, I'll have to sign it if it's one of the fun unsigned repo's we pull from
[02:28] <Kamion> fabbione: prebaseconfig.d/90prepare-base-config is the place to start investigating the inittab problem, probably
[02:28] <Kamion> don't see anything particularly Debian-specific in there though
[02:29] <fabbione> Kamion: what happens i think is between base-config and login
[02:29] <fabbione> there is a temporary inittab to run base-config
[02:29] <fabbione> that gets replaced by a inittab.real
[02:29] <fabbione> in debian the inittab.real is correct, the one on ubuntu no
[02:29] <fabbione> this is a very specific case for the fact that i am headless and sparc wants a console on ttyS0
[02:30] <Kamion> have you got a current base-config?
[02:30] <fabbione> while from Ubuntu i get tty1 = console freeze
[02:30] <fabbione> Kamion: the one that's in the archive...
[02:30] <Kamion> < 2.61ubuntu5 would be broken
[02:30] <Kamion> ok
[02:30] <fabbione> i am synced with the buildd
[02:30] <Kamion> I know about the temporary inittab
[02:30] <fabbione> ./archive/pool/main/b/base-config/base-config_2.61ubuntu14_all.deb
[02:30] <Kamion> that's what prebaseconfig.d/90prepare-base-config sets up
[02:31] <Kamion> which is why I pointed you there as a first resort
[02:31] <fabbione> i will look at it.
[02:31] <fabbione> but not today
[02:32] <fabbione> i need to stop soon..
[02:33] <Kamion> sure ...
[02:33] <fabbione> i couldn't sleep very good this night and my head is winning against me 1 - 0
[02:35] <Kamion> $ LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 gettext -d console-data mac-usb-uk; echo
[02:35] <Kamion> Englisch (Britisch)
[02:35] <Kamion> mmm
[02:35] <daniels> elmo: you need to get your rage under control :) i was asking if php4-imap was your huge-changelog-for-NEW case
[02:36] <elmo> daniels: don't be disingenuous
[02:37] <elmo> round-robining really doesn't distribute load evenly at all
[02:38] <daniels> elmo: huh?
[02:45] <lamont> seb128: kicked
[02:47] <seb128> lamont: thanks
[03:04] <zul> hey
[03:14] <tritium> nice use of the d-i for the new live CD
[03:42] <opi> is anyone working on Thunderbird patch for Reply-To-List?
[03:43] <Treenaks> opi: list-reply.. probably..
[03:43] <opi> yes, yes
[03:43] <opi> but we're not sure?
[03:43] <aj> that supports mail-followup-to:?
[03:43] <aj> god, please let it be so
[03:43] <opi> a new guy subscribed to ubuntu-pl, and asked for programmers tasks
[03:43] <opi> I've pointed him to our CC meeting and point, that we need to fix Thunderbird
[03:44] <opi> we'll see if he'll be intrested
[03:44] <Treenaks> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715
[03:45] <opi> oh, ok
[03:45] <opi> thanks Treenaks 
[03:45] <opi> so we need to wait for a patch, since it's assigned
[03:46] <Treenaks> opi: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=233417 ?
[03:46] <opi> Treenaks, Duplicate of Bug 45715?
[03:47] <opi> Treenaks, same thing :P
[03:47] <Treenaks> opi: not quite
[03:47] <opi> ah, List-Post:
[03:47] <opi> yeah, I noticed now
[03:48] <Treenaks> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204339
[03:51] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
[03:51] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[03:51] <pitti> sjoerd: it's reproducable
[03:51] <sjoerd> cool
[03:51] <pitti> sjoerd: every time I upgrade from hal 0.4.4 to 0.4.7 my computer is DoSed
[03:51] <sjoerd> only on upgrade ?
[03:52] <pitti> sjoerd: i. e. CPU goes to 100%, it becomes totally unresponsive and I have to hard-reboot
[03:52] <pitti> sjoerd: yes
[03:52] <pitti> sjoerd: now I booted again and it works perfectly
[03:52] <pitti> sjoerd: I can stop, start, restart and everything
[03:52] <pitti> odd...
[03:52] <sjoerd> what is dossing your system ?
[03:52] <pitti> sjoerd: that's the problem
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: when I check with top, all proceses are quiet
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: so it's not the hald process taking the cpu
[03:53] <pitti> or, at least, it's not displayed
[03:53] <pitti> however, cpu in general is 100%
[03:53] <pitti> but no single process wants to be the reason :-(
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: kernel bug?
[03:54] <pitti> sjoerd: indeed, let's blame it to fabbione :-)
[03:54] <sjoerd> could be
[03:54] <pitti> sjoerd: I try with some other hal versions
[03:54] <sjoerd> please
[03:56] <abelli> pitti: hailie's chpax kills mono..
[03:56] <pitti> sjoerd: btw, DOWNgrading back to 0.4.4 works like a charm
[03:56] <pitti> abelli: yes, sounds like a good candidate to put into linux-hardened-support
[03:56] <tseng> mono starts to run its own interpreted code at some point during the bootstrap process
[03:56] <abelli> uee''''
[03:56] <pitti> abelli: which binary must be disabled in particular?
[03:56] <tseng> pax will certainly kill the build.
[03:57] <pitti> tseng: the _build_?
[03:57] <abelli> usr bin mono
[03:57] <tseng> pitti: yes, i think i have a bug
[03:57] <tseng> pitti: however, gentoo builds mono in a different manner
[03:58] <tseng> pitti: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74754
[04:00] <pitti> abelli: so sudo chpax -s /usr/bin/mono; sudo chpax -p /usr/bin/mono makes it work?
[04:00] <abelli> i need to sudo.. is it all right?
[04:01] <abelli> yes it works
[04:01] <pitti> WTH is that?
[04:01] <pitti> Unpacking replacement hal ...
[04:01] <pitti> dpkg-deb (subprocess): short read in buffer_copy (failed to write to pipe in copy)
[04:01] <pitti> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste returned error exit status 2
[04:01] <pitti> dpkg: error processing hal_0.4.6-1_i386.deb (--install):
[04:01] <pitti>  short read in buffer_copy (backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/share/doc/hal/NEWS.gz')
[04:01] <pitti> Keeeeeeeyyyyybuuuuuukk
[04:02] <pitti> abelli: right, with sudo
[04:02] <abelli> so those are the keys for heavens?
[04:02] <pitti> abelli: okay, then I add it to l-h-support
[04:02] <abelli> -s then -p...
[04:02] <pitti> abelli: even easier
[04:03] <pitti> abelli: just add it to /etc/page_exec.conf
[04:03] <pitti> abelli: and then rerun sudo update-linux-hardened-support
[04:03] <abelli> what if i dont have a page_exec.conf?
[04:04] <pitti> abelli: it comes with linux-hardened-support
[04:04] <pitti> abelli: oops
[04:04] <pitti> abelli: /etc/linux-hardened-support/page_exec.conf
[04:04] <pitti> sorry
[04:04] <abelli> i should have understood.. sorry
[04:05] <carlos> pitti: ping
[04:05] <pitti> Hi carlos!
[04:05] <carlos> hi
[04:06] <pitti> carlos: good to meet you, got a question
[04:06] <carlos> pitti: me too
[04:06] <carlos> :-D
[04:06] <pitti> carlos: you first :-)
[04:06] <carlos> pitti: I just remembered why I was interested on use automake/autoconf with pmount
[04:06] <carlos> pitti: you are not naming the .pot file as it's named the .mo files
[04:07] <pitti> carlos: hm?
[04:07] <carlos> pitti: that will make the automatic import/export into Rosetta difficult
[04:07] <carlos> pitti: the .pot file is called template.pot
[04:07] <pitti> ah, that
[04:07] <pitti> carlos: it should be pmount.pot
[04:07] <carlos> but when installed the .mo, it's called pmount.mo
[04:07] <carlos> pitti: yes, please
[04:08] <pitti> carlos: incidentially my question was related, or nearly the same
[04:08] <carlos> but it's an extra problem I should handle because I cannot fix all packages (I'm sure some of them have that problem) :-(
[04:08] <carlos> pitti: really?
[04:08] <pitti> carlos: I just wrote a script which converts a stripped tarball to the import format (<LOCALE>/LC_MESSAGES/<DOMAIN>.po)
[04:09] <pitti> carlos: however, I had the same problem like you, finding out the DOMAIN
[04:09] <pitti> carlos: so I assumed that the pot file was always called DOMAIN.pot
[04:09] <carlos> pitti: autoconf/automake handle it correctly :-P
[04:09] <pitti> carlos: but if it's not, I'm screwed
[04:09] <pitti> carlos: how could it?
[04:09] <carlos> pitti: because it has some special rules (at least with GNOME) that use the same name for the .pot and the .mo files
[04:10] <pitti> ah, I see
[04:10] <thom> firefox build of destiny on the way
[04:10] <carlos> pitti: is there any way you give me that information when creating the translations.tar.gz file?
[04:10] <pitti> carlos: that's the same question I wanted to ask you
[04:10] <pitti> carlos: I could probably apply some heuristics
[04:11] <pitti> carlos: i. e. like "find $pkgdir -name *.mo, then "basename $file .mo", then sort -u
[04:11] <pitti> carlos: and write the result to /domains.txt
[04:11] <carlos> pitti: what happens with multiple .pot files?
[04:11] <pitti> phone
[04:11] <carlos> ok
[04:12] <pitti> brb
[04:12] <pitti> back
[04:12] <Kamion> pitti: how often are language packs getting updated at the moment? at all?
[04:12] <pitti> I don't know , I wanted to ask you that
[04:12] <pitti> Kamion: I want to do a complete rebuild soon
[04:13] <pitti> Kamion: to fix the glibc dependency and to add the locale generation
[04:13] <elmo> pitti: where did the mozilla-locale-fr dep go?
[04:13] <pitti> elmo: I removed it, because it is for version 1.7.3, and we have mozilla 1.7.5
[04:13] <pitti> elmo: so it is uninstallable
[04:13] <elmo> pitti: so we fix mozilla-locale-fr
[04:13] <elmo> there are about 8 like that
[04:13] <elmo> I filed bugs on them all
[04:14] <pitti> elmo: sure, that just was a hotfix
[04:14] <Kamion> pitti: just wondering if I uploaded console-data with some extra locale bits shipped when they'd make it into a language pack
[04:14] <pitti> Kamion: with the new set of base debs and my scripts working, I will probably do manual builds every week or so
[04:14] <elmo> pitti: please don't do that, it messes with the sync-age stuff's head
[04:15] <pitti> elmo: don't do what?
[04:15] <pitti> elmo: remove support dependencies? build new base packages?
[04:15] <pitti> elmo: or manual updates weekly?
[04:15] <elmo> remove support dependencies because the dependencies are broken
[04:16] <pitti> carlos: I've got no idea about multiple pots. The po files are just called <lang>.po, so you can't tell which domain it belongs to
[04:16] <elmo> and I'm not terribly convinced by once a week either tho, now that you mention it
[04:16] <elmo> can we not rebuild when -update packages get as big as base?
[04:16] <pitti> elmo: no, I'm talking about weekly new _update_ packages
[04:16] <pitti> elmo: the bases should remain as they are until short before the release
[04:16] <carlos> pitti: but you have the .mo files from a package, right?
[04:16] <elmo> oh, that's fine, I'd be surprised if people were happy with only weekly tho
[04:16] <pitti> elmo: I just need this one set of new bases, because the current ones are broken
[04:17] <pitti> elmo: weekly just for a start
[04:17] <pitti> elmo: if I'm reasonably convinced that most of the stuff works, I can automate it further and do more often
[04:17] <carlos> hmm, thinking it again, I think we will need a way to map it
[04:17] <pitti> but right now I have to write a hell of a lot of new scripts to emulate Rosetta exports
[04:17] <elmo> hum, why emulate?
[04:17] <carlos> pitti: let me talk with daf about it
[04:18] <pitti> elmo: right now I'm working at downloading and converting http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations,
[04:18] <elmo> Kamion: do you haave germinate for woody handy anywhere? (any arch)
[04:18] <pitti> comparing them to our current pos, and building a new archive out of the new ones
[04:18] <pitti> because Rosetta does not yet do this
[04:18] <elmo> pitti: I thought the plan was buildd -> rosetta -> you ?
[04:18] <pitti> elmo: that's the future, yes :-)
[04:19] <pitti> elmo: bitch carlos about speeding up :-)
[04:19] <daf> pitti: there is no way to automatically know the gettext domain an application will use
[04:19] <daf> pitti: it is not necessarily related to the template name
[04:19] <daf> pitti: it might only be declared in the code
[04:19] <pitti> daf: no, but the template name is the best guess I have currently
[04:19] <daf> (though it is often available from looking at configure.in etc.)
[04:20] <pitti> daf: actually what do you think about
[04:20] <pitti> daf:  "find $pkgdir -name *.mo, then "basename $file .mo", then sort -u
[04:20] <pitti> daf: ^ in pkgstriptranslations
[04:20] <pitti> daf: this will at least tell us all translation domains
[04:20] <daf> yeah, that makes sense
[04:21] <carlos> pitti, daf: What about this:
[04:21] <carlos> add a file with that output to the tarball
[04:21] <pitti> daf: this should catch 95% of the packages with just one domain
[04:21] <carlos> if there is only one domain
[04:21] <carlos> we use it
[04:21] <pitti> yes, that's the idea
[04:21] <elmo> seb128: do you know if something recently dropped a depends on vorbis-tools?
[04:21] <pitti> if there are several, it goes to manual processing
[04:21] <carlos> if there is more than one domain, I will ask for a manual check
[04:21] <carlos> right
[04:22] <pitti> carlos: what do we do about the already present translation tarballs?
[04:22] <carlos> pitti: don't worry
[04:22] <pitti> actually I wanted to use them to build current langpacks
[04:22] <carlos> hmm
[04:22] <pitti> carlos: I do, if I can't map the domains, these translations are lost
[04:22] <carlos> pitti: not really
[04:22] <pitti> carlos: well, I check them manually
[04:22] <seb128> elmo: rhythmbox, why ?
[04:22] <carlos> pitti: the problem is to export the translations
[04:23] <pitti> carlos: I finish my script, download all of it and correct manually
[04:23] <carlos> so I will try to add a way to fix them before exporting 
[04:23] <pitti> carlos: so first I update pkgstriptranslations to generate the domains.txt file?
[04:23] <elmo> seb128: 'cos vorbis-tool wants to go to universe now.. I've asked for it to go to supported tho.. I just  wanted to make sure it was an intentional change
[04:23] <carlos> pitti: yes, please, that way we get less .tar.gz files without it
[04:24] <carlos> pitti: what happens with Debian's po files?
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: ?
[04:24] <Kamion> elmo: output? no
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: you mean the ones before the stripping age?
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: I have them
[04:24] <seb128> elmo: ok
[04:24] <carlos> pitti: no, de debconf ones
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: I just merge them
[04:24] <elmo> Kamion: don't worry, seb explained why it disappeared anyway
[04:24] <Kamion> elmo: hang on, *woody*? why?
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: ah
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: I don't touch them for now
[04:24] <carlos> pitti: are they .mo files also?
[04:24] <elmo> Kamion: meh, meant warty
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: no
[04:25] <pitti> carlos: they get merged to the templates file during package build
[04:25] <elmo> both begin with a 'w' :p
[04:25] <carlos> ooh, cool
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-warty-output/
[04:25] <pitti> carlos: well, not _so_ cool
[04:25] <daf> don't we need a way to map paths in tarballs to translation domains?
[04:25] <pitti> carlos: it doesn't use gettext in the running system
[04:25] <carlos> pitti: then, please, export them also so they are imported into rosetta (but not exported when you ask the language pack)
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo: it's only running against warty though, not warty+warty-security or anything
[04:26] <elmo> oh, right, forgot about that page
[04:26] <pitti> carlos: they are exported in the translation tarballs
[04:26] <pitti> carlos: i just take each and every po file I can get
[04:26] <pitti> carlos: usually they should be in debian/po/
[04:26] <carlos> daf: yes, with that domains.txt file and some manual work it should be enough
[04:26] <carlos> pitti: perfect, I will handle them as an special case
[04:27] <pitti> carlos: you need a map for every package with > 1 domains which maps path -> domain
[04:27] <pitti> carlos: should be possible
[04:27] <carlos> so packages with them are not seen as multiple pot tarballs
[04:27] <pitti> carlos: and maintain the map manually
[04:27] <carlos> pitti: I know, we have already the needed fields in the database for it
[04:27] <daf> carlos: sorry, I'm having a hard time following -- where will this file be stored?
[04:27] <lamont> pitti/carlos: mind if I regenerate the entire tree under ~lamont/translations?  (will move a few files around, etc...)?
[04:28] <carlos> lamont: no problem
[04:28] <pitti> not for me
[04:28] <pitti> lamont: wait
[04:28] <lamont> ok.  that'll get rid of the dups
[04:28] <pitti> lamont: what do you mean with "regenerate"?
[04:28] <carlos> daf: inside the *translations.tar.gz files
[04:28] <pitti> lamont: if it means "rebuilding the source packages", then I need you to wait a bit
[04:28] <carlos> daf: so we will have .pot, .po and domains.txt files
[04:28] <lamont> pitti: "randomly" reorganize the contents of all the 2005* directories
[04:28] <pitti> lamont: ah, ok. I don't mind that
[04:29] <daf> carlos: hmm, ok
[04:29] <lamont> not rebuilding, merely re-fetching from the buildd's.
[04:29] <pitti> lamont: I will upload a new pkgstriptranslations shortly, we need that
[04:29] <daf> carlos: this won't help us with importing multi-pot tarballs into Rosetta, though, right?
[04:29] <carlos> daf: from the web interface?
[04:29] <carlos> no
[04:30] <carlos> daf: but I think it's safe to forget that use case in the near future
[04:30] <elmo> infinity: ?
[04:30] <thom> elmo: he went to bed an hour or so ago
[04:32] <lamont> pitti/carlos: turns out that "regenerate" simply means "remove the duplicate files found in 20050127"
[04:34] <lamont> ]   CC [M]   drivers/net/wireless/acx/acx100_helper.o
[04:34] <lamont> drivers/net/wireless/acx/acx100_helper.c:2872:2: warning: #warning Is this used anymore?
[04:34] <dholbach> bbl *wave*
[04:34] <carlos> lamont: you can do whatever you need with it atm,  I'm not doing anything that depends on its contents, just ask pitti if you need to do any change
[04:35] <pitti> carlos: when do you think will exporting work?
[04:35] <lamont> carlos: ok
[04:40] <carlos> pitti: I think daf told me he did the export, but until we finish the import (this week + extra checks) don't think it's going to be useful for you...
[04:40] <pitti> carlos: right, just curious :-)
[04:40] <carlos> lamont: do you have it in arch?, I think that should be enough
[04:41] <pitti> lamont: would it be a problem if I put some (temporary) text files into <src package directory>/.. on the buildds?
[04:41] <pitti> lamont: i. e. the dir where the translation tarball is?
[04:41] <pitti> lamont: oh, I can't do that at user's machines
[04:41] <pitti> lamont: darn, I need mktemp
[04:41] <pitti> but that isn't essential
[04:42] <pitti> carlos: putting in this domains.txt file is more difficult than I thought...
[04:44] <carlos> pitti: how do you create the tarball?
[04:44] <pitti> carlos: I thought about using "tar -A" to add this file to the tarball, but that option doesn't work :-(
[04:44] <pitti> carlos: find -name "*.po" -o -name "*.pot" | tar cT - | gzip -9 > ../$tarball
[04:45] <pitti> carlos: the problem is, I cannot just put a file "domains.txt" into the source package
[04:45] <pitti> carlos: it might already exist
[04:46] <pitti> carlos: and although the source is already built by that time, it is not good to destroy the source
[04:47] <pitti> why, oh why, isn't debianutils essential?
[04:48] <elmo> err, it is?
[04:48] <pitti> oops, 
[04:48] <pitti> oh
[04:48] <pitti> cool!
[04:48] <lamont> carlos: need to do that... :-)
[04:48] <pitti> okay, so I can rely on mktemp, and my problem is gone
[04:49] <carlos> pitti: is that correct? (I was looking for alternatives, just to know I could stop)
[04:49] <pitti> carlos: correct what?
[04:49] <carlos> pitti: that you are able to use mktemp :-)
[04:49] <pitti> carlos: yes
[04:49] <pitti> carlos: my fault
[04:50] <carlos> perfect
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: well, almost
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: the file is called domains.txt.94584
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: (or so, temporary)
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: would that hurt you?
[04:52] <carlos> pitti: if you cannot rename it, no as soon as It's always domains.txt.NUMBER
[04:52] <pitti> carlos: okay, then I'll do that
[04:53] <pitti> carlos: no, forget that
[04:53] <pitti> carlos: mktemp -t :-)
[04:53] <pitti> mktemp -d, I meant
[05:15] <rcaskey_> vnc2swf is pretty neat
[05:15] <rcaskey_> it seems to choke on things that get sudo'd though
[05:28] <Kamion>             if self.emulate_3_buttons.get_active() and self.mouseDict[args]  != 'none':
[05:28] <Kamion>                 buf = buf + "--emulthree "
[05:28] <Kamion>             (a, b, c, d, e, protocol) = self.mouseDict[args] 
[05:29] <Kamion> is there something magic about tuple/string comparison that makes the test at the end of the first line make any sense at all?
[05:30] <sivang> Kamion: what's that supposed to do? dict by a click on a word? ;-)
[05:31] <Kamion> it's part of the graphical kickstart frontend's mouse handling
[05:32] <dholbach> re
[05:33] <sivang> Kamion: ah ok, kickstat is also in python?
[05:33] <Kamion> sort of
[05:34] <Kamion> bits of Red Hat's implementation is in C; bits of our implementation will likely be in shell
[05:34] <Kamion> there'll be a sizable python component though
[05:34] <sivang> Kamion: and it uses the gtk db lib?
[05:34] <sivang> s/db/fb
[05:35] <Kamion> no
[05:35] <Kamion> the graphical bit is something that you run on an ordinary system to generate a kickstart file
[05:35] <Kamion> the kickstart file is then parsed noninteractively by the installer
[05:35] <sivang> ah right ! oops
[05:35] <sivang> yes, for mass intalls
[05:36] <Kamion> indeed; although it's nothing that you can't do with preseeding either
[05:36] <Kamion> it's purely a compatibility thing
[05:36] <sivang> Kamion: right, preseeding allows you to create boiletplate system snpashot and apply them non interactively almos the same way?
[05:37] <Kamion> yeah
[05:37] <sivang> Kamion: so this step it a mere "let's make it easy for admin that already used Kickstart on their redhat/fedora system" ?
[05:37] <Kamion> right, or admins who already have heterogeneous RH/Fedora/SuSE/blah setups
[05:38] <Kamion> and preseeding doesn't have any pointy-clicky frontend at the moment, so this will provide that
[05:38] <Kamion> assuming I can get it done before feature freeze, at least
[05:38] <sivang> Kamion: I'd appriciate when you have time to toss me the link to read about preseeding the installer, I'd like that for the livecd and the loco version.
[05:39] <sivang> or give a couple of instructions here
[05:39] <sivang> (for preseeding the language/location question)
[05:39] <Kamion> sivang: link to http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.i386/ch04s07.html
[05:39] <sivang> ok :)
[05:40] <Kamion> unless you feel up to modifying the initrd, the language/location question can only be preseeded on the kernel command line (or by bootloader configuration)
[05:40] <Kamion> in hoary, adding 'preseed/locale=he_IL' or similar to the append lines in bootloader configuration should be sufficient
[05:40] <Kamion> possibly it's preseed/locale=he_IL.UTF-8, localechooser is complicated, try both
[05:42] <Kamion> should work for both the installer and the live CD
[05:42] <pitti> lamont: pkgstriptranslations_6 uploaded
[05:42] <pitti> lamont: it'd be nice if you could install it asap
[05:42] <sivang> Kamion: yes, now that casper is actually d-i setting up the environment
[05:42] <Kamion> indeed
[05:42] <sivang> (or not, but sounds like it does ;-)
[05:45] <lamont> pitti: if you just uploaded it now, then I can install it in about 50 monutes
[05:45] <lamont> minutes, even
[05:45] <pitti> lamont: that's fine
[05:46] <thom> Uploading via ftp mozilla-firefox_1.0+dfsg.1-2ubuntu4_source.changes: done.
[05:47] <Kamion> sivang: yeah, near enough :)
[05:48] <sivang> Kamion: do you know the simple-cdd pakcage?
[05:49] <Kamion> no, 'fraid not
[05:53] <sivang> Kamion: err, I can't find the pakcag all of the sudden
[05:54] <Kamion> cdd-common maybe?
[05:54] <sivang> Kamion: maybe so :) checking..
[06:08] <mdz> daniels: pong
[06:08] <mdz> morning
[06:10] <dholbach> hai mdz
[06:11] <mdz> Kamion: do you publish britney output for universe anywhere?
[06:18] <Kamion> mdz: no; britney runs on jackass and I don't have direct control over it anyway, I just mirror it
[06:19] <Kamion> mdz: live CD announcement should be ready to go barring any wording fixes or whatever
[06:23] <mdz> Kamion: positive feedback overnight?
[06:24] <Kamion> worked for me on amd64, Kinnison liked it, haven't heard anything negative
[06:24] <mdz> amu,lamont,thom: did your live CD tests go OK?
[06:25] <Kamion> did wonder why it was taking >140MB of RSS just to run GNOME
[06:25] <mdz> measured how?
[06:25] <Kamion> oh, one thing that came to mind was that update-notifier doesn't really seem to make much sense in a live CD environment, but sits there chewing memory
[06:25] <seb128> thom: bah you close bugs with changelogs entries not related to the bugs :p (#5585)
[06:25] <Kamion> 'free'
[06:26] <mdz> free says I am using 621M of memory after cache+buffers
[06:26] <Kamion> not counting cache+buffers
[06:27] <mdz> s/after/not counting/
[06:27] <Kamion> fresh live CD, just started gnome-terminal and that's about it
[06:27] <mdz> do you not normally run GNOME on your desktop?
[06:28] <Kamion> not when I'm doing real work, no :P
[06:28] <Kamion> I thought GNOME's system requirements were more like 128MB
[06:28] <mdz> I don't think GNOME can accept all of that memory
[06:28] <Kamion> and I'd expected there to be some slack in there
[06:28] <lamont> mitzi's machine has 128MB... I wouldn't tolerate it
[06:28] <mdz> it could very well include the 64M ramdisk
[06:28] <Kamion> ah, possible
[06:29] <mdz> I should add a text-only mode to casper
[06:29] <Kamion> I thought we freed that
[06:29] <mdz> no, it's used for COW
[06:29] <Kamion> like 'live DEBCONF_PRIORITY=text'? :)
[06:29] <mdz> we free the d-i tmpfs
[06:29] <Kamion> er, DEBCONF_FRONTEND
[06:30] <Kamion> or do you mean 'boot live CD to login: prompt'?
[06:30] <mdz> the latter
[06:30] <Kamion> ah; yes, that would be nifty
[06:30] <mdz> "don't start gdm" mode
[06:31] <mdz> could we allocate an isolinux section for the purpose?
[06:31] <Kamion> isolinux doesn't really have sections ...
[06:31] <mdz> or at least a bare command-line word, rather than a really-long/debconf-one
[06:31] <Kamion> live-text?
[06:32] <mdz> whatever you call the bits in isolinux.cfg that let you boot with different kernels/initrds/parameters
[06:32] <Kamion> oh ok
[06:32] <Kamion> sure
[06:32] <mdz> casper-udeb/mode=text?
[06:32] <mdz> or casper-udeb/display-manager=false
[06:33] <Kamion> I think I prefer debconf templates to express single functions; the boot name can be friendlier
[06:33] <mdz> heh, every small thread I start on ubuntu-devel to ask the question whether a particular package makes sense to promote to main, it erupts into a frenzy of people wanting their favourite package in main
[06:34] <Kamion> hm, I need to shift casper to preseeding, the command line is beginning to reach the limits
[06:34] <seb128> thom: what app is to fix (#2547) ?
[06:34] <mdz> whatever makes sense to you; just let me know how it turns out
[06:34] <mdz> and I'll make the trivial casper changes
[06:35] <seb128> hum, just trying the liveCD, the panel is not started on boot, I just get the cdrom icon on the desktop :/
[06:37] <mdz> seb128: strange; is it the same bug that some people see on normal installs?
[06:37] <seb128> no
[06:37] <seb128> or I'm not aware of the install bug
[06:37] <seb128> I mean there is not panel started at all
[06:37] <mdz> the panels started OK for me on the live CD
[06:37] <seb128> I've right click on the desktop
[06:38] <seb128> open a gt
[06:38] <seb128> and enter "gnome-panel" in it
[06:38] <mdz> and that works?
[06:38] <seb128> yep
[06:39] <seb128> but that's damn slow, I think the cd-drive has a problem on this box, I'll try with an another one
[06:39] <Kamion> mdz: oh, how do you feel about renaming the "linux" boot option on i386/amd64 to "install"?
[06:39] <Kamion> I've never liked the "linux" business
[06:40] <mdz> Kamion: I always press enter
[06:40] <Kamion> yeah, but if you need to supply options you have to type it in
[06:40] <Kamion> powerpc uses 'install'
[06:40] <mdz> oh, though I guess I do instinctively type'linux' if I need options
[06:40] <Kamion> the inconsistency is annoying :)
[06:41] <mdz> what about something which could be the same on install and live?
[06:41] <Kamion> plus I'm thinking it would be less confusing on an install+live DVD to have the boot options named accordingly
[06:41] <Kamion> I suppose we could alias linux to install or live accordingly
[06:41] <Kamion> although it's a bit fiddly, and again makes no sense on an install+live DVD
[06:42] <opi> can anyone do ma a favor?
[06:42] <opi> s/ma/me
[06:42] <mdz> daniels: php4-imap, rock on
[06:45] <amu> mdz: tested 20050126 i386 with the ubuntu live label it works fine for me
[06:45] <mdz> elmo: yay for sync notifications
[06:46] <mdz> amu: 20050126.2 is the one which needs testing; did you mean that one?
[06:46] <mdz> 20050126.2 will be released as a milestone today unless it is broken
[06:47] <amu> 20050126 i tested ... unfortunately there was no newer once as i took the image     
[06:47] <mdz> Kamion: jdub suggested a while ago that we allow sudo based on group membership, rather than username
[06:47] <mdz> Kamion: this would prevent us from having to modify /etc/sudoers during install, and makes it easy to grant administrative privileges to newly-added users if desired
[06:47] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think?
[06:48] <amu> mdz: ok, i'll sync them and test all archs  
[06:48] <Kamion> mdz: I like it
[06:48] <Kamion> transition might be a pig, dunno, but I definitely prefer the group approach
[06:49] <mdz> we can do it only for new installs
[06:50] <mdz> or maybe just add the group entry to sudoers on upgrade, and mention in the release notes that users can add themselves and others to it
[06:51] <tseng> i typically add users to the wheel group for sudo access
[06:51] <mdz> amu: you should send these things to the public mailing lists, rather than privately to me
[06:51] <tseng> matchs su policy on gentoo and bsd
[06:51] <Kamion> we have no wheel group, and it should be something in base-passwd
[06:51] <mdz> tseng: I'd prefer not to change the semantics of an existing group, though
[06:52] <Kamion> I think group 0 is best avoided here; it often leads to confusion
[06:52] <mdz> amu: I read your report, and I think that it should be made available to other users who would like to participate in testing
[06:52] <mdz> amu: please keep the process in the open
[06:52] <Kamion> the 'sudo' group has the wrong semantics though
[06:52] <Kamion>        exempt_group
[06:52] <Kamion>                    Users in this group are exempt from password and PATH
[06:52] <Kamion>                    requirements.  On Debian systems, this is set to the group
[06:52] <Kamion>                    sudo by default.
[06:53] <tritium> "The system is going down NOW !!this console" is kind of alarming to see after "Preparing for live session"
[06:53] <mdz> I think what we want is the '%group in place of user' bit
[06:53] <Kamion> I just don't like the idea of users with sudo access being able to write to accidentally-mode-775 root:root binaries without any further authentication
[06:53] <mdz> tritium: cosmetic problems like that will be addressed later; this is an alpha release
[06:54] <mdz> Kamion, thom: do we have live torrents?
[06:54] <tritium> mdz, cool, I'm just providing some feedback
[06:54] <amu> mdz: ok    
[06:54] <Kamion> mdz: yes, should have
[06:55] <mdz> yep, torrents are live
[06:55] <tritium> PPC live CD looks pretty good.  Only resolution is 640x480, but all else looks pretty good.
[06:56] <tritium> (on a G3)
[06:56] <mdz> tritium: was Warty better or worse on the same machine?
[06:57] <tritium> mdz, wrt to resolution?
[06:57] <mdz> tritium: yes
[06:57] <amu> mdz: rsync done, burning them ... report for all 3 archs comes 1-2h later   
[06:57] <tritium> mdz, let me go check my Warty G3 box
[06:58] <mdz> tritium: if you could file a bug against xserver-xorg with: /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /etc/X11/xorg.conf (from the live CD), and include information about what Warty did on the same machine, that would be great
[06:58] <mdz> amu: thanks
[06:58] <mdz> amu: please do i386 first :-)
[06:59] <mdz> sladen: ping?
[06:59] <rubenv> anyone has tested on an inspiron 8600c yet?
[06:59] <rubenv> else i'll grab a livecd
[07:00] <rubenv> won't make much difference as I'm already running hoary, but hey
[07:00] <mdz> Kamion, mako, elmo: I'm going to remove the rsync:// info from the announcement before sending it out
[07:01] <tritium> mdz, warty install gave me 1280x1024 on G3.  md5sum of /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 matches that in /var/lib/xfree86, so I don't believe I changed anything
[07:01] <mdz> folks who have been rsyncing dailies will already know what to do
[07:01] <mdz> tritium: could you include a copy of the XF86Config-4 in the report as well, then?
[07:01] <rubenv> I have put up a 10mbit torrent seed for the three cds btw
[07:01] <tritium> mdz, yes
[07:01] <mdz> rubenv: thanks!
[07:01] <rubenv> maybe i'll up it to 50mbit
[07:01] <rubenv> ah, why not :)
[07:02] <mdz> hmm
[07:05] <T-Bone> hi
[07:05] <haggai> lamont: could you check what OOo1's status is?  i uploaded yesterday and it's listed as out of date but no buildd logs showed up
[07:06] <mako> mdz: alright
[07:07] <mdz> Kamion, mako: any chance of getting the pretty dirindex header stuff in?
[07:07] <mako> mdz: if you're sending it, tell me when its sent and i'll moderate it
[07:07] <mdz> mako: yeah, I'm going to send it shortly
[07:07] <Kamion> mdz: oh, into the live index? sure, one sec
[07:08] <mdz> Kamion: in fact I think it would be good to make that a standard part of the iso publish process
[07:08] <T-Bone> Kamion: did you have some time to figure out what's happening with my install attempts?
[07:08] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I agree
[07:09] <mdz> Kamion: I guess you'll need to hack it up a bit for this live-only release, but if we could start doing the install and live milestones together, we could reuse nearly the same text
[07:10] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I'm trying to keep the text shared
[07:12] <lamont> haggai: i386 should have made the :03 run (just now)
[07:12] <lamont> ppc is still slogging along...
[07:12] <lamont> ppc is about 6.5 hours into the 7.5 hour build :-)
[07:13] <Kamion> mdz: done
[07:13] <mdz> ooh, nice
[07:14] <mdz> one day we should add fancy icons
[07:14] <mdz> but this'll do
[07:14] <mdz> I'm ready to send the announcement
[07:15] <Kamion> hold on a sec
[07:15] <Kamion> just fixing the descriptions for MD5SUMS/MD5SUMS.gpg
[07:16] <mdz> mako: a GAZILLION people
[07:16] <mdz> how many is a gazillion these days anyway?
[07:17] <Kamion> oh, never mind, can't make Apache do what I want, just killed those two descriptions for now
[07:17] <Kamion> mdz: go ahead
[07:17] <rcaskey_> mdz: 8 or 9 at least I would suppose
[07:17] <mako> mdz: i'll tell you when i go in and moderate that message
[07:17] <mdz> mako: ok, firing
[07:17] <mako> lots more than news
[07:17] <lamont> these images any different from last night?
[07:17] <haggai> lamont: ah cool, thanks for checking
[07:17] <Kamion> T-Bone: erm ... did you send me the log files from the failed install?
[07:18] <mako> i think there has been this funny effect where because LWN has been soo good at publishing our stuff, people just don't both subscribing to our announcements lists :))
[07:18] <mdz> lamont: no, did the ones last night work for you?
[07:18] <lamont> yeah
[07:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: i did yesterday, about 4mn after you requested them
[07:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: :P
[07:18] <Kamion> T-Bone: erm, can't find them
[07:18] <mdz> mako: they kill us with love
[07:18] <lamont> mdz: is the lack of an ia64 live because it doesn't build, or because we've decided to drop ia64 until things work?
[07:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: fix your attachment killer? :P
[07:19] <Kamion> let me see if I had a spam filter problem again
[07:19] <rcaskey_> btw, I must say ubuntu is one of the few announce lists that actually hits the sweet spot of keeping you informed without filling your inbox with junk
[07:19] <T-Bone> Kamion: Message-ID: <20050127000631.7847949c@Tatooine.r3z0>
[07:19] <Kamion> bah, yes
[07:19] <mako> we're gonna send two today
[07:19] <mdz> lamont: last I heard from you, ia64 cloop didn't build
[07:19] <mako> which is two more than we've sent in the last two months
[07:19] <lamont> mdz: yeah - I need to check on that...
[07:19] <mako> one for LoCo Teams, one for the live CD
[07:19] <mdz> lamont: d-i certainly builds
[07:19] <T-Bone> Kamion: do i have to send it again?
[07:19] <Kamion> T-Bone: nope
[07:20] <T-Bone> k
[07:20] <rcaskey_> mako: when is array 4 happenin'
[07:20] <Kamion> retrieved it
[07:20] <mdz> am I not subscribed to ubuntu-announce? I might not be
[07:20] <rcaskey_> I checked the schedule but it seems..off
[07:20] <Kamion> rcaskey_: next Wednesday probably
[07:20] <lamont> mdz: built last night: livecd-20050127-ia64.cloop-1024:65536 
[07:20] <Kamion> the schedule needs to be rewritten to reflect reality
[07:20] <rcaskey_> Kamion: and ics'd
[07:21] <Kamion> rcaskey_: ics'd?
[07:21] <lamont> mdz: there's been a 'current' for ia64 since 0119.4, with a hiatus on 25-26
[07:21] <mdz> lamont: oh, I didn't notice that it was already building in the normal daily runs
[07:21] <rcaskey_> put out an ical
[07:21] <mdz> lamont: have you tried it yet?
[07:21] <lamont> mdz: it's on the list...
[07:21] <rcaskey_> it's all the rage for people who aren't writing in grease pencil on their monitors
[07:21] <mdz> lamont: I've just been in the habit of invoking the build script with ARCHES="i386 amd64 powerpc"
[07:21] <lamont> although I want to try the install CD first - my i2000 really wants to retire soon, you see....
[07:22] <Kamion> mdz: the build script was taking care of that for you already :-P
[07:22] <mako> mdz: it hasn't showed up yet
[07:22] <Kamion> 2005-01-20 12:39:43 GMT Colin Watson <colin.watson@canonical.com>       patch-108
[07:22] <Kamion>     Summary:
[07:22] <Kamion>       Enable ia64 live CDs.
[07:22] <mdz> mako: Jan 27 10:20:06 localhost postfix/smtp[5055] : A61A8B8780: to=<ubuntu-announce@lists.ubuntu.com>, relay=mail.alcor.net[68.168.78.100] , delay=11, status=sent (250 Message received: 20050127181753.LGOG10643.mta10.adelphia.net@mizar.alcor.net)
[07:22] <mdz> Kamion: when you told me how to run it, you included that in your example
[07:22] <Kamion> mdz: yes, but then I committed:
[07:23] <Kamion> 2005-01-11 00:20:38 GMT Colin Watson <colin.watson@canonical.com>       patch-105
[07:23] <Kamion>     Summary:
[07:23] <Kamion>       temporarily remove ia64 from list of live CD architectures
[07:23] <Kamion> mdz: guess I forgot to tell you, sorry
[07:23] <mdz> I don't generally read the patch-logs :-)
[07:23] <mdz> at any rate, we couldn't have released it with array3.5 since no one had tested it
[07:23] <mako> mdz: i did eventually receive that message from you yesterday :)
[07:23] <Kamion> true
[07:23] <mdz> mako: where did it get held up, according to the headers?
[07:24] <mako> let me check
[07:24] <rcaskey_> Kamion: but it would be nice to just subscribe Evolution/Sunbird/iCal/Outlook and watch the schedule and get updates automatically
[07:24] <Kamion> rcaskey_: oh, THAT ICS
[07:24] <mdz> as opposed to the internet chess server?
[07:24] <rcaskey_> yeah
[07:24] <Kamion> T-Bone: how strange; debootstrap doesn't even appear to be trying to install lsb-release, yet it is in its list and it's in the archive
[07:25] <rcaskey_> "So Bishop to King's Four, is that sooner or later?"
[07:25] <T-Bone> Kamion: that's exactly it. Besides, it fails on unrelated package:
[07:25] <rcaskey_> are auto updates going to beanbled out of the box for Warty?
[07:25] <rcaskey_> err Hoary
[07:26] <Kamion> T-Bone: not unrelated, ubuntu-base depends on lsb-release
[07:26] <T-Bone> it says it can't install initrd-tools in the first place, whilst they are installed already. Same for the next error (after reattempting)
[07:26] <Kamion> that's not an error
[07:26] <T-Bone> Kamion: the error message on the install screen happens to say "There was an error installing initrd-tools, please check tty3..."
[07:27] <Kamion> solve the first error and that will probably go away; there is little point attempting to debug subsequent errors that are all consequential
[07:27] <T-Bone> agreed
[07:27] <Kamion> T-Bone: do you have lsb-release on your CD? (use isoinfo -lR -i foo.iso | grep lsb-release)
[07:27] <Kamion> T-Bone: what version of debootstrap do you have on your CD?
[07:27] <Kamion> is this a CD? :-)
[07:27] <T-Bone> Kamion: lol, that was daily from 25th
[07:27] <T-Bone> lemme check
[07:28] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily$ isoinfo -lR -i 20050125/hoary-install-ia64.iso | grep lsb-release_
[07:28] <Kamion> -r--r--r--   2    0    0            9342 Nov 17 2004 [  78888 00]   lsb-release_1.4-7.1ubuntu6_ia64.deb
[07:28] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily$ isoinfo -lR -i 20050125/hoary-install-ia64.iso | grep debootstrap-udeb_
[07:28] <Kamion> -r--r--r--   2    0    0           38296 Jan 19 2005 [  18789 00]   debootstrap-udeb_0.2.45ubuntu22_ia64.udeb
[07:28] <Kamion> ohh
[07:28] <T-Bone> there you have it :)
[07:28] <Kamion> use a newer CD with debootstrap-udeb 0.2.45ubuntu23
[07:28] <Kamion> debootstrap (0.2.45ubuntu23) hoary; urgency=low
[07:28] <Kamion>   * [hoary]  Add lsb-release (closes: Ubuntu #2501).
[07:28] <T-Bone> dooooh
[07:28] <T-Bone> Kamion: is it on today's iso?
[07:29] <Kamion> yeah
[07:29] <T-Bone> cool
[07:29] <T-Bone> let's fetch it
[07:29] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily$ isoinfo -lR -i 20050127/hoary-install-ia64.iso | grep debootstrap-udeb_
[07:29] <Kamion> -r--r--r--   2    0    0           38024 Jan 26 2005 [  18789 00]   debootstrap-udeb_0.2.45ubuntu23_ia64.udeb
[07:29] <Kamion> whoa, yeah, definitely
[07:30] <sladen> T-Bone: man rsync
[07:30] <T-Bone> sladen: no kidding?
[07:30] <Kamion> I'm sorry, not sure how ubuntu-base 0.20 got onto that CD without the corresponding debootstrap-udeb
[07:30] <T-Bone> sladen: what's 'man' btw?
[07:30] <sladen> mdz: pong
[07:30] <Mithrandir> rsync -v --progress --partial -a archive.ubuntu.com::cdimage/daily-live/current/hoary-live-amd64.iso hoary-live-amd64.iso
[07:30] <Mithrandir> adjust for your file names.
[07:30] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: thx a lot ;)
[07:30] <Kamion> best use cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/
[07:30] <sladen> mdz: haven't done anything in the last couple of days.  Currently fighting my tax-return atm
[07:31] <lamont> mdz: your liveCD boots slower than thom's laptop... :)
[07:31] <mdz> sladen: oddly enough, I think I was pinging about something other than the usual usplash nagging ;-)
[07:32] <mdz> lamont: maybe we should save a swsusp image from a booted system on the CD and restore it
[07:32] <mdz> for ultra-fast boot
[07:32] <mdz> I guess that wouldn't work too well on varying hardware, though
[07:32] <lamont> mdz: getting that to work with hw detection would be most amazing...
[07:33] <lamont> "null symbol found"
[07:33] <lamont> hrm.
[07:33] <T-Bone> gah, still sucky throughput on cdimage.u.c ;P
[07:33] <lamont> T-Bone: announcements can do that to you...
[07:33] <mdz> lamont: yeah, saw that too
[07:33] <mdz> it's new
[07:34] <T-Bone> lamont: hehe ;)
[07:34] <sladen> mdz: hardware issues;  you might be able to do it if you hid everything behind a xnest;  but then 3d would suck
[07:35] <lamont> Kamion: as a reminder, rootfs for *64 will grow (slowly?) over time - we'll need to reset them every so often...
[07:36] <sladen> lamont: how much fixing did you reckon partimage needed?
[07:37] <lamont> sladen: it's pretty systemic
[07:37] <mdz> how high does it score on the warn-o-meter?
[07:37] <lamont> mdz: makes pointer from int of wrong size _all_ over...
[07:38] <mako> you will be pleased to hear that we have put the fun back in computing: http://www.netsite.co.uk/content-185
[07:38] <sladen> lamont: I'd be tempted to take the '-e' code path, strip the rest and just get that one subset of the code working
[07:38] <lamont> growth rate looks pretty slow, actually.. 50-100KB/day about
[07:38] <mdz> mako: does that count as InThePress?
[07:38] <sladen> anyone seen:  http://www.irmateam.com/  the colour Rosetta ripoff?
[07:38] <mako> mdz: it's not *really* press
[07:38] <mdz> mako: yeah
[07:39] <lamont> sladen: we actually save and restore, in order to walk the -e path
[07:39] <mdz> mako: there's a lot of stuff like that out there, though
[07:39] <mdz> mako: we should have a "nice things people have written about us who are not press" section
[07:39] <mako> yeah totally, it would be good to collect it
[07:39] <lamont> sladen: I'd me _very_ happy if I could just run -e on a partition
[07:39] <mdz> mako: like that o'reilly stuff
[07:39] <mdz> and people's blogs
[07:40] <mako> yeah totally
[07:40] <mako> we need a Love Letters section
[07:40] <mxpxpod> is there a way to map the alt key on an ibook keyboard to Super_R and the apple key to Alt_L without using xmodmap?
[07:40] <ogra> mako: wow, what a great name
[07:40] <mdz> ogra++
[07:42] <mdz> mako: right, so apparetnly my mail relay is fucked
[07:42] <mako> i think we've now approached that point of all-consuming work where were are personifying our work and endowing it with romantic qualities.. like truckers who name their truck sally
[07:43] <mdz> mako: I've pasted the announcement with my edits back into the wiki
[07:43] <mako> mdz: i can send it
[07:43] <mdz> mako: so that you can send it instead
[07:43] <amu> mako: only if you promise, my wife will never find them :) 
[07:43] <mako> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDAnnouncement ?
[07:43] <ogra> au: lol
[07:43] <mdz> yes
[07:43] <ogra> amu ^^
[07:44] <lamont> smurfix: you need a few more userid's on your key. :-P
[07:44] <smurfix> lamont: I know. *preen*
[07:45] <lamont> bouncing cow.  yum
[07:46] <amu> "This is the ubuntu LiveCD" yes!
[07:46] <mdz> sladen: oh, I remember.  I wanted to know how you addressed the issue of console output from init for usplash, to see if I could apply the same method to the live CD
[07:46] <mako> mdz: sent, let me see if i need to moderate my own messages
[07:46] <mdz> sladen: where I need to suppress the "System is going down NOW" what not
[07:47] <sladen> lamont: see man chattr:   When a file with the s attribute set is deleted, its blocks are zeroed and written back to the disk.
[07:47] <sladen> lamont: is that a stop-gap you could use
[07:47] <mako> mdz: sent!
[07:48] <sladen> mdz: don't think I've dealt with that particular one.  console=tty should take care of it, let me test
[07:48] <lamont> sladen: so set the 's' attribute on every file in the image, rsync, and then clear the flag (since we don't want that on the disk...)
[07:48] <mako> if i don't get to be "supreme community commander" i want to be "propaganda minister"
[07:49] <lamont> mako: 'minister of propaganda' you mean
[07:49] <mako> lamont: right
[07:49] <mdz> mako: only if pitti can be "minister of defense"
[07:49] <lamont> pm is prime minister
[07:49] <lamont> or process management..
[07:49] <mako> mdz: YES
[07:49] <T-Bone> lamont: pm is *after lunch* ;)
[07:50] <sladen> lamont: for the livecd, there shouldn't be any problem is just leaving it on
[07:50] <sladen> s/is/with/
[07:50] <lamont> sladen: removing the file on the livecd with that set would cause it to allocate zero blocks from the ramdisk
[07:50] <lamont> which is not what we want...
[07:50] <sladen> lamont: but yes, chattr -R  the lot, then chattr -R again
[07:50] <mako> in the US, secretary of war was changed from secretary of war. i think Minister of War would be equally intriguing :)
[07:51] <mako> sorry, secretary of defense was changed from secretary of war
[07:51] <sladen> lamont: good point...  
[07:51] <lamont> sladen: given that chattr feature, why shouldn't I just switch over to that completely, instead of using partimage?
[07:51] <lamont> seems to be exactly what the doctor ordered.
[07:51] <mdz> lamont: they do different things
[07:52] <lamont> ok.
[07:52] <mdz> the chattr won't ensure that _all_ empty blocks are zeroed
[07:52] <lamont> chattr probably doesn't deal with the inode
[07:52] <mdz> it also won't deal with files created during the build process
[07:52] <lamont> ah, yes
[07:52] <Treenaks> mako: next stop: secretary of peace
[07:52] <lamont> wait - those don't count
[07:52] <mdz> oh, ou're righn
[07:52] <mdz> you're right
[07:52] <lamont> files that are created and removed during the build process are not on the image
[07:53] <mako> Treenaks: make love not war
[07:53] <mdz> lamont: rsync --inplace won't delete the file, though
[07:53] <mdz> and slack won't be zeroed (will it?)
[07:53] <sladen> it'll likely not deal with freed-up inodes.  But I suspect the number of those may well be small enough not to worry for the moment
[07:53] <mdz> the man page only mentions deletion, not change of size
[07:54] <sladen> *shrug* try it and see
[07:54] <mdz> mako: bittorrent is building
[07:54] <mdz> mako: <5 minutes from transmission ;-)
[07:54] <dholbach> i'm trying to set up a pbuilder, and followed the howto on the wiki, but everytime i try to build something, i get this at some stage:
[07:54] <dholbach> dpkg-source: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)
[07:54] <dholbach> dpkg-parsechangelog: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)
[07:55] <abelli> smurfix: ding
[07:56] <mako> smurfix: i think we shoudl put info on locos onto the participate page
[07:56] <mako> smurfix: what do you think?
[07:56] <smurfix> mako: do it
[07:56] <smurfix> abelli: dong ?
[07:56] <mako> smurfix: cool.. i send that link out probably a dozen times a day
[07:56] <abelli> smurfix: what about the domain you have registered?
[07:57] <mako> smurfix: so having something there  would be super useful i think
[07:57] <smurfix> abelli: ubuntu-it.org ?
[07:57] <abelli> is it? ok..so yes.
[07:57] <smurfix> abelli: do you have a webspace it should point to?
[07:57] <abelli> ubuntuitalia.org
[07:58] <abelli> ill send you the ip as soon as i receive the sparc that will host it
[07:59] <ogra> abelli: wow, so you will be the first user of fabbionnes sparc port ?
[07:59] <abelli> ogra: im actually supposed to help fabbione in that.. but im so crap in mantaining promises
[08:00] <abelli> i mean trying to fix d-i's bugs
[08:00] <smurfix> abelli: as soon as you have it, tell it to accept that name (plus www.*) as ServerAlias and tell me the IP.
[08:00] <sladen> mdz: ''System is going down now'', is actually wall'ed to everyone.  Hmmm, hadn't actually thought about that one
[08:00] <lamont> The Live CD runs completely off of the CD and will not touch any of the data on your hard drive so it is:
[08:00] <lamont> liar.
[08:01] <sladen> has anyone played with Alpha yet/
[08:01] <abelli> smurfix: so you're not going to redirect it on ubuntuitalia.org?
[08:01] <lamont> sladen: I have one.. :-)
[08:01] <abelli> lamont/sladen: how much?
[08:02] <lamont> mako: the announcement doesn't mention swap partitions... :-)
[08:02] <sladen> abelli: well, I paid nothing.  But still need to find it a phat IDE disk
[08:02] <lamont> abelli: I paid the same amount as sladen
[08:02] <abelli> why are you this lucky?
[08:02] <amu> mdz: i386 .... ipw2200 isnt autodetected, it was before,  xorg with 640*480, and UNKNOWN keyboard, 
[08:02] <lamont> mine says 'alphastation 600 5/266'
[08:03] <sladen> mine says 'Alphastation 500au ?/???' -- 500Mhz chip
[08:03] <Mithrandir> 2 kNOK for a Ultra 10.  that's not too bad.
[08:06] <sladen> mdz: patching init is the obvious one, either to just syslog, or to >/dev/console which is got rid of in the normal fashion to tty1
[08:07] <abelli> i actually bought a 450mhz ultra sparc for 10 eur on ebay
[08:07] <lamont> mdz: when I umount things (from the command line) their icons don't disappear.
[08:07] <abelli> but it sounds a bit crappy
[08:07] <lamont> actually paid money for one of them - can't remember which
[08:08] <mako> abelli: wow
[08:08] <sjoerd> got my ultra 5 for free
[08:08] <mako> my fastest computer is 750 mhz
[08:08] <abelli> sjoerd: that's unfair..
[08:08] <abelli> =)
[08:09] <Mithrandir> my slowest, working computer is 450MHz.  It being my DSL gw.
[08:09] <sjoerd> abelli: what was unfair is that they didn't have a monitor for me anymore :)
[08:09] <lamont> mako: mitzi's computer is 1.6GHz, but only has 128MB of RAM... :-(
[08:09] <[Clint] > my fastest working computer is 1GHz, being my firewall
[08:09] <mako> lamont: i have .5GB memory and lots of fast disk which is all that really matters for me
[08:10] <mako> T-Bone: ion
[08:10] <mako> this gnome stuff is for weenies
[08:10] <Mithrandir> I need a bit more memory, since I only have .5GB.
[08:10] <T-Bone> hehe
[08:10] <mako> whoops
[08:10] <T-Bone> lol
[08:11] <mdz> sladen: in busybox init, it's just written to the console fd, not wall'd
[08:11] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: that's just silly.
[08:11] <abelli> mako: im going to buy a 200mhz arm processor and itll cost 20 times that sparc..
[08:11] <mdz> sladen: which is /dev/vc/0 at the moment
[08:11] <Mithrandir> I'm getting 2GB in the FX55 I'm getting for my thesis.  That's nice.
[08:12] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: heh. I need more money to buy ram. As a matter of fact, i have a few very powerful box handy, but they usually lack either RAM or disks ;P
[08:12] <mako> T-Bone: that stuff is overrated anyway ;)
[08:12] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: then they're not very powerful :)
[08:13] <T-Bone> aside from the ia64 which are well gifted in RAM (2GB each), the next box i have with a reasonnable RAM amount is my old dual G4: 1GB. Everything else ranges between .2 and .5
[08:13] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: alas :P
[08:13] <mdz> mako: ~5mbit sustained up from my seed alone
[08:13] <mako> mdz: shit.. let me jump on that
[08:13] <mdz> amu: my ipw2200 was detected
[08:13] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: I'm looking for a hardware sponsor, see? :^)
[08:13] <mako> columbia.edu to the rescue!
[08:13] <mdz> amu: these problems are all new with array3.5 compared to 20050126??
[08:16] <sladen> mdz: are you just worried for the LiveCD---it would be nice to get rid off it for the desktop install too
[08:16] <mdz> sladen: well, the live CD uses a completely different init
[08:16] <mdz> sladen: so I imagine we need to do the work twice
[08:16] <mdz> at least if we end up patching init
[08:16] <T-Bone> w00t. Stack dump and kernel oops while trying to mount a freshly JFS / partition with Hoary daily d-i
[08:17] <mdz> ono ia64?
[08:17] <T-Bone> that's the first time I try JFS on ia64 tho. Guess i'm gonna use some other fs
[08:17] <lamont> T-Bone: non-gluttons use ext3...
[08:17] <mdz> s/ono/on/
[08:17] <amu> mdz: yes
[08:17] <T-Bone> lamont: ext3 suck hell
[08:18] <amu> mdz: testing now ppc
[08:18] <mdz> amu: that makes no sense
[08:18] <mdz> they use exactly the same cloop image
[08:18] <tritium> do I have to commit my description on bugzilla before I can attach files?
[08:18] <mdz> amu: the primary difference is that d-i will not ask questions for network config
[08:19] <mdz> that should be very nearly the only difference, in fact
[08:19] <amu> mdz: with 20050126 i can choose my network, now, 2 times tried it was detected but not ask for a essid  
[08:19] <mdz> amu: ok, that is a feature then
[08:19] <T-Bone> lamont: ayeee. Seems that the partition table got fscked up
[08:19] <amu> mdz: i've 3 different access points ... 
[08:19] <mdz> it is detected; it simply leaves it unconfigured in order to be non-interactive
[08:20] <smurfix> Who can replace ubuntulinuxorg's favicon.ico? I've got a nicer one with a transparent background ;-)
[08:20] <amu> mdz: sorry, i should say configured, it is detected  
[08:20] <mdz> amu: ok, I am relieved
[08:21] <lamont> Kamion: d-i... This is the Ubuntu installation system, built on 20041227ubuntu6.   -- those extra 7 characters kinda mess the output up a bit...
[08:21] <mdz> amu: what about the X config, you said it was 640x480
[08:22] <mako> mdz: i'm downloading at 20Mb/s and going up quickly :)
[08:22] <mdz> whoa
[08:22] <amu> mdz: nv card, use the correct driver, nv, xorg.config set the correct resolution 1600*1080, but X starts with 640*480   
[08:22] <mdz> mako: | speed:      0    B/s down -   2.3 MB/s up                                    |
[08:22] <mdz> mako: I think you're downloading from me over i2 ;-)
[08:22] <mdz> amu: same with 20050126?
[08:23] <mako> man.. downloading a CD iso in 4 minutes is *great*
[08:23] <mdz> mako: 2.3 megabytes/sec is an insane amount of uplink
[08:23] <amu> sorry i cant remember 
[08:24] <lamont> Detecting hardware to find CD-ROM drives  ..12%..22%..32%..42%..52%..62%Detect and mount CD-ROM
[08:24] <lamont> !! ERROR: Error while running 'modprobe -v amd74xx'
[08:24] <lamont> grumble
[08:24] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah
[08:24] <lamont> interestingly, it finds the cd after that...
[08:24] <T-Bone> lamont: i think this one should be removed
[08:25] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah, it's just a stupid module handling poorly the case where no matching device is found
[08:25] <T-Bone> that's really nothing more than a lame bugger
[08:25] <mdz> I wish we could dispense with loading those modules explicitly
[08:25] <mdz> and just let hotplug handle it
[08:25] <mako> mdz: if it dipped now, it's because i finished
[08:26] <amu> mdz: @ was also not working with a germany keyboard layout, same with 20050126
[08:26] <ogra> dholbach: gah, my evo has a floating point exception on amd64 too, dammned.....
[08:26] <mdz> mako: yeah, falling
[08:27] <dholbach> have a nice evening - i'll have a beer :-)
[08:27] <dholbach> mvo_: see you in 25 minutes :-)
[08:27] <sivang> dholbach: night
[08:27] <sivang> dholbach: eh
[08:27] <lamont> T-Bone: I'm using the 1/24 install cd
[08:28] <dholbach> ogra: thats why i switched to mozilla-thunderbird temporarily :-/
[08:28] <T-Bone> lamont: will fail
[08:28] <sivang> dholbach: just noted you're going to get a beer and not signing ogg
[08:28] <ogra> dholbach: orig.tar.gz ??
[08:28] <T-Bone> lamont: use today's
[08:28] <dholbach> ogra: later :-)
[08:28] <ogra> k
[08:28] <lamont> T-Bone: ah, ok.  that'll be about 2 days from now, at the current download rate... :(
[08:28] <dholbach> sivang: signing ogg?
[08:28] <lamont> or I could drive to town..
[08:28] <T-Bone> WHEEEE! Ubuntu-base done!! Kudos to Kamion :)
[08:29] <T-Bone> lamont: it will fail no matter what. You're wasting precious download time :^)
[08:29] <lamont> T-Bone: I _have_ 1/24.  I'm downloading yesterdays
[08:29] <mako> mdz: we need to find out how to take advantage of our 2MB/s connection between each other
[08:29] <mako> mdz: stream movies or something
[08:29] <lamont> or do I need this morning's daily build?
[08:29] <T-Bone> lamont: you do
[08:30] <T-Bone> any cd before 1/26 is buggy
[08:30] <lamont> sigh and grumble
[08:30] <mdz> mako: yeah, maybe we could even find a way to get ARRESTED
[08:30] <lamont> before, or 'on or before'
[08:30] <T-Bone> mako: try videolan: www.videolan.org ;)
[08:30] <mdz> mako: don't you know, streaming media kills babies
[08:30] <tritium> mdz, I filed a bug against xserver-xorg as you asked, re: G3 LiveCD resolution
[08:30] <mdz> tritium: thanks
[08:30] <mako> mdz: dude, my favorite radio statino in seattle streams UNCOMPRESSED
[08:31] <T-Bone> lamont: can't tell. I'd say on or before. Kamion can answer ;)
[08:31] <tritium> it's #5940.  sorry daniels ;)
[08:31] <mdz> mako: what, at like 8khz?
[08:31] <mako> mdz: 44khz
[08:31] <mako> mdz: 1.4Mb/s
[08:31] <dholbach> bye
[08:31] <shaya> noticing changes needed for beagle are making it into hoary.  are there beagle debs anywhere?
[08:31] <T-Bone> err
[08:31] <T-Bone> Kamion: "No boot loader has been installed". WTH?
[08:32] <abelli> mako: yo, can you introduce me to docbook?
[08:32] <mako> mdz: www.kexp.org
[08:32] <lamont> docbook: abelli; abelli: docbook.  :-)
[08:32] <Mithrandir> abelli, meet docbook.  docbook, this is abelli.
[08:32] <Mithrandir> :)
[08:32] <mako> abelli: do you need a tutorial?
[08:33] <lamont> Mithrandir: ^5!
[08:33] <mako> abelli: because at the moment, i'm a bit swamped
[08:33] <abelli> mako: thank you
[08:33] <Mithrandir> lamont: :D
[08:33] <tritium> mako, are you in Seattle?
[08:33] <abelli> mako: ok another day
[08:33] <mako> tritium: new york today :)
[08:33] <T-Bone> lamont: any clue why it doesn't install elilo?
[08:33] <lamont> T-Bone: ah, initrd-tools, eh?
[08:33] <mako> tritium: i haven't been in seattle since sunday ;)
[08:33] <lamont> T-Bone: that's a Kamion question
[08:33] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah. But initrd-tools ain't the problem. The problem is a fux0red debootstrap
[08:33] <lamont> ubuntu-desktop/base don't depend on any boot loaders
[08:33] <tritium> mako, Oh, okay.  I used to live in Mukilteo when I worked at Boeing.  :)
[08:34] <tritium> (Everett facility)
[08:34] <T-Bone> lamont: there's no way you can get something useful out of these CDs without arse-pain
[08:34] <mako> tritium: i'm from seattle and my family is still there.. so i end up there pretty frequently
[08:34] <lamont> T-Bone: even todays?
[08:34] <tritium> mako, I've since moved away.  Sometimes I go back to visit.
[08:34] <T-Bone> lamont: todays works, except it complains at the end that it will not install any boot loader, which is a regression from previous ISOs
[08:35] <lamont> T-Bone: ah, ok.
[08:35] <T-Bone> lamont: hence my surprise
[08:35] <lamont> and then it's execute a shell and install elilo time, eh?
[08:35] <mdz> mako: that is insane
[08:35] <T-Bone> lamont: right
[08:35] <abelli> seattle? wasnt zero cool from seattle?
[08:35] <T-Bone> lamont: i'm a bit sad, i thought today was *the* day. Ie the day we could have announced that IA64 is now instalable ;)
[08:36] <mako> abelli: he was
[08:36] <mako> abelli: and he moved to newyork.. just like me :P
[08:36] <abelli> mako: thank you, have you seen acid burn lately?
[08:37] <lamont> T-Bone: today isn't over yet...
[08:37] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping?
[08:37] <T-Bone> lamont: heh
[08:39] <T-Bone> lamont: at the end when it tells you to reboot, do: modprobe efivars; chroot target; apt-get install elilo; elilo --autoconf --efiboot --root /dev/rootdev -b /dev/EFIdev and you're done ;)
[08:40] <lamont> T-Bone: woot
[08:40] <T-Bone> doh. something went wrong
[08:40] <T-Bone> the boot menu entry wasn't added :(
[08:40] <abelli> dehiho..
[08:41] <abelli> what can you do with such a machine?
[08:41] <T-Bone> lamont: well, it's just cosmetics. The files are there in EFI/ubuntu
[08:42] <abelli> ahh.. intel..
[08:42] <T-Bone> there it boots
[08:42] <T-Bone> and hangs on hotplug, just as usual
[08:43] <T-Bone> ah no, this time it went further
[08:43] <T-Bone> lamont: this is live news dude, the box is up and running with the nice greeting message ;^)
[08:48] <lamont> abelli: I use it for the local mirror and squid proxy
[08:48] <abelli> lamont:  what the sparc one?
[08:49] <lamont> abelli: actually an i2000
[08:49] <T-Bone> lamont: what would it take to get the installer do the right thing WRT elilo?
[08:49] <T-Bone> oh bummer, that's a kamion question ;)
[08:49] <lamont> T-Bone: I imagine someone with clue... :)
[08:49] <T-Bone> lol
[08:50] <T-Bone> i'll send a diff to fabbione. I think we want efivars builtin somehow. I'll have to check the behaviour on the zx6000 too, had issues with MPT Fusion devices
[08:50] <lamont> T-Bone: wonder if maybe the issue is the modprobe efivars?
[08:51] <lamont> that is, it's not there, so the elilo step gets skipped, or fails, or something
[08:51] <T-Bone> lamont: nah. elilo works without efivars. It just can't update the boot entry in that case
[08:51] <abelli> lamont: thank you
[08:51] <abelli> does anyone here knows extremetech.com
[08:51] <T-Bone> lamont: not having efivars doesn't prevent you from installing a package, hopefully ;)
[08:53] <abelli> i actually need some kind of site to get introduced to 64 bit processors, i dont want to read each developer guide
[08:53] <T-Bone> IDE disks are so full of shit. They're a shame to any powerful machine ;P
[08:54] <T-Bone> abelli: what do you want to know? The difference is that instructions and registers are wider, that's all :^)
[08:54] <abelli> will ever ricover this debt?
[08:55] <abelli> T-Bone: i mean main differences, pros and cons, of alpha, usparc, g5
[08:55] <T-Bone> doh
[08:55] <T-Bone> lamont: ok, i'm adding to the curse list 'udev' and 'hotplug'
[08:56] <lamont> T-Bone: udev is your friend, though.
[08:56] <T-Bone> i have 60+ of these process running defunct at nice -10
[08:56] <T-Bone> the box is collapsing
[08:56] <T-Bone> lamont: nah. udev is not my friend :(
[08:56] <lamont> udev event issues in 2.6.10 ia64 kernel.  check.
[08:58] <T-Bone> lamont: that's "udev block" and "hal" stuff going mad
[08:59] <sjoerd> T-Bone: hald a D process by any chance ?
[09:00] <Treenaks> sjoerd: I had my load going way up during upgrade... reboot fixed it
[09:00] <Treenaks> sjoerd: no processes running (according to top) though
[09:00] <sjoerd> Treenaks: pitti discovered a weird bug where upgrading hal dosses the system without any apparent reason
[09:00] <T-Bone> sjoerd: nope
[09:01] <Treenaks> sjoerd: yes, I had that as well
[09:01] <Treenaks> sjoerd: reboot fixed it
[09:01] <sjoerd> same for him
[09:02] <Treenaks> argh! desktop scrolling using the scrollwheel is the "wrong way around"..
[09:02] <Treenaks> scroll up is move left..
[09:02] <Treenaks> that's just Wrong
[09:02] <abelli> buona sera
[09:02] <T-Bone> sjoerd: the mess happened while i was apt-get install'ing ubuntu-desktop
[09:02] <Treenaks> abelli: goedenavond
[09:02] <sjoerd> T-Bone: mabye the same problem then
[09:02] <sjoerd> T-Bone: hoary install/upgrade ?
[09:03] <T-Bone> sjoerd: hoary install
[09:03] <T-Bone> sjoerd: just killed all udevd and the box feels much better
[09:04] <ogra> gah 30 mins for downgrading evolution manually....
[09:04] <ogra> what a crap
[09:05] <amu> mdz: ppc on a pb4 is fine, except there's also no @ with german keybord layout, amazing thing was, i'm beeing ask about the essid ( ext. pcmcia card ) 
[09:05] <ogra> lamont: its something to write text ith ;)
[09:05] <ogra> with even
[09:05] <lamont> ogra: reviewing patches - changelog and actual patch are somewhat at odds.
[09:06] <ogra> ah....
[09:06] <Treenaks> ogra: "curses evolution".. that's called "mutt"
[09:06] <ogra> Treenaks: .-P
[09:07] <T-Bone> floating-point assist faults  with firefox-bin. Yummy
[09:08] <mdz> amu: the netcfg changes are a bit ad-hoc; there are probably still cases where it can ask a question
[09:08] <ogra> T-Bone: could you try if evolution segfaults with a floating point error on ia64 too ? i suspect there is a 64bit prob with it....
[09:09] <T-Bone> ogra: sure, once i have the box almost working. Besides, a bug on ia64 does not necessarily mean that's 64bit related. If you knew how many progs actually bug on ia64... ;P
[09:09] <T-Bone> s/ia64/ia64-linux/g
[09:09] <amu> mdz: you would like an amd64 test also ?  
[09:10] <mdz> amu: certainly
[09:10] <mdz> it works ok on amd64 here
[09:10] <mdz> but more testing is always good
[09:10] <ogra> T-Bone: but if it fails on amd64 _and_ ia64 there is some hint in this direction i think....
[09:12] <Kamion> lamont: 20050126 at least has the updated debootstrap-udeb
[09:12] <T-Bone> ogra: heh
[09:12] <Kamion> T-Bone: ubuntu-desktop is frequently screwed; I generally blame GNOME
[09:12] <Kamion> T-Bone: elilo> hmmmm
[09:12] <lamont> -# GNUmakefile.in generated by automake 1.9.3 from GNUmakefile.am.
[09:12] <lamont> -# @configure_input@ 
[09:12] <lamont> +# GNUmakefile.in generated automatically by automake 1.4-p6 from GNUmakefile.am
[09:12] <lamont> what's wrong with this picture, hrm?
[09:12] <ogra> Kamion: huh ? i thought GTK 
[09:13] <Kamion> T-Bone: look in /var/log/syslog (or /var/log/debian-installer/syslog) and tell me if there's anything from elilo-installer in there
[09:13] <T-Bone> Kamion: well i usually blame ia64 and its linux kernel support ;)
[09:13] <Kamion> if ! apt-install elilo ; then
[09:13] <Kamion> it certainly tries to install elilo
[09:14] <T-Bone> booting, will tell in a few sec
[09:14] <Kamion> lamont: pre-20050126, you'll need to edit /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hoary before base-installer runs and add lsb-release to base
[09:14] <T-Bone> things are much better without hotplug/udev, fwiw
[09:14] <Kamion> we need to fix hotplug/udev, not just make them go away :)
[09:15] <mdz> indeed
[09:16] <mdz> is there any reasonably authoritative Python parser for Packages style files?
[09:16] <Kamion> T-Bone: you said they were *defunct* processes, though? as in zombies?
[09:16] <mdz> everyone seems to include their own
[09:16] <Kamion> mdz: I thought that was python-apt
[09:16] <mdz> reportbug, linda, apt-listchanges, etc.
[09:16] <Kamion> T-Bone: I'd be more inclined to pin that on a kernel bug, personally ...
[09:16] <T-Bone> Kamion: as in zombies, "D" state, whatsoever
[09:16] <mdz> Kamion: python-apt's is nice and fast, but not very Pythonic
[09:16] <mdz> it is instead apt-ish
[09:16] <elmo> it's definitely the close we have to authoritative for Python tho
[09:16] <elmo> closest
[09:17] <Kamion> zombies != D state by quite a wide margin
[09:17] <T-Bone> Kamion: yeah, the kernel sucks a lot
[09:17] <mdz> it can't do things like parse from a Python file object
[09:17] <mdz> because it needs a real file descriptor to give to apt
[09:17] <elmo> yeah, that's annoying
[09:17] <T-Bone> Kamion: i said 'defunct' in the first place :)
[09:17] <mdz> slack ass maintainer should fix it
[09:17] <Kamion> T-Bone: it really needs to be fixed; we are standardising on udev and hotplug across the whole distribution for good reasons, and we're going to have trouble supporting an architecture that can't cope with them
[09:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: heh.
[09:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: i can't find anything very clear in the installer logs, i'll mailthem to you
[09:20] <Kamion> T-Bone: I've weakened my filters a bit, shouldn't be sin-binning your attachments any more
[09:20] <T-Bone> ok
[09:21] <T-Bone> ;)
[09:22] <ogra> T-Bone: btw, you are listed on MaintainerCandidates.....since ages....
[09:23] <T-Bone> ogra: never took time to remove that entry ;)
[09:23] <ogra> T-Bone: oh, you doont want anymore ? or did you bypass the process ?
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: thoughts on albatross 1.10-9.1?  claims to be no different than 1.10-9ubuntu1 - do we want to sync that, or leave them split?
[09:24] <T-Bone> ogra: actually i'm a maintainer since sometime before december
[09:24] <mdz> lamont: universe, fine with me
[09:25] <ogra> T-Bone: sad, i thought i found another MOTU victim to poke and annoy you until you join...... ;)
[09:25] <T-Bone> ogra: actually i've never been a MOTU ;)
[09:25] <mdz> ogra: YES
[09:25] <elmo> giggle
[09:26] <lamont> elmo: if you're bored, please sync albatross_1.10-9.1
[09:26] <tseng> ogra: i might be mistaken, but there is a long list on MaintainerCandidates that i dont think have been on an agenda
[09:27] <elmo> lamont: err, it's already in universe?
[09:27] <elmo>  albatross |   1.10-9.1 | hoary/universe | source
[09:27] <ogra> tseng: it requires more then just being on MainainerCandidates.....i.e. some action from your site as you know ;)
[09:28] <tseng> ogra: yes.
[09:28] <thom> seb128: the ones mentioned; gaim, notably
[09:28] <ogra> tseng: so its a thing to poke them to get active :)
[09:28] <elmo> 124G    /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/backup
[09:28] <elmo> hmm, that might be a bit OTT
[09:29] <thom> yow
[09:29] <T-Bone> Kamion: i just hit 'send' ;)
[09:29] <Astharot> hi
[09:29] <T-Bone> Kamion: i wonder if one of the issues is to have 2.6.10
[09:30] <T-Bone> Kamion: iirc, it's not considered as a very stable kernel for at least ia64 (and parisc, to some extent :P)
[09:34] <Kamion> T-Gone: we can't have different kernels on different architectures though; we decided against that long ago
[09:34] <Kamion> 2.6.10 will just have to be patched up
[09:34] <Kamion> T-Gone: I see the elilo-installer bug, will fix
[09:36] <lamont> seb128: you're not around are you?
[09:36] <seb128> lamont: ?
[09:36] <lamont> woot
[09:37] <seb128> why ? :)
[09:37] <lamont> seb128: I need to figure out how to tell at a glance if a change in build-deps is because of gnome 2.{8,10}, or not..
[09:37] <lamont> is that easy?>
[09:37] <HrdwrBoB> is it silly of me to ask that 2.4 gets removed from universe?
[09:37] <HrdwrBoB> some people installed it and broke heir systems
[09:37] <lamont> HrdwrBoB: gnome, or kernel?
[09:37] <HrdwrBoB> kernel
[09:37] <lamont> both should get nuked
[09:38] <HrdwrBoB> but yeah
[09:38] <HrdwrBoB> I've seen it twice now
[09:38] <Kamion> T-Gone: fix in my tree, but alioth just went away; off to the pub now, will commit later
[09:39] <seb128> lamont: in build-deps of what ?
[09:39] <lamont> build-deps
[09:40] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: when do you go for MOTU ?
[09:40] <lamont> HrdwrBoB: maybe we need a 'twilightzone' component?
[09:41] <lamont> for things leaving the universe, and all that... :-)
[09:41] <ogra> hehe
[09:41] <HrdwrBoB> haha :)
[09:41] <HrdwrBoB> ogra: when I create a gpg key later this morning
[09:41] <HrdwrBoB> unfortunately I have some real work to do today
[09:41] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: YAY :)
[09:42] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: i'm happy if you do it at all ;)
[09:42] <amu> mdz: amd64 also ok, expect there's also no @ and |
[09:44] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: ....as you are on top of my personal candidates list ;)
[09:44] <HrdwrBoB> heh, woot
[09:45] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: you do awesome support... hard to ignore ;)
[09:47] <HrdwrBoB> ah, unfortunately awesupport support is easy to ignore :)
[09:47] <ogra> heh
[09:49] <HrdwrBoB> then you end up having to install a full 32bit chroot of warty on a 64 bit system and pulling your hair out because you need to support ancient coldfusion and eventually finding it was a gcc problem and compiles fine with gcc 2.95
[09:49] <mako> mdz: HOT
[09:50] <HrdwrBoB> cool
[09:50] <lamont> mdz: diff analysis is going to be at least 2 passes...  doing gross/low-hanging fruit now, noting pending/etc for pass 2..
[09:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: you're multiplicating constraints that are going to make things way harder ;P
[09:55] <T-Bone> Kamion: it's a known issue that some kernel versions are troublesome on some archs and not on others...
[09:55] <smurfix> mako: you saw my announcement oops?
[09:58] <ajmitch> ogra: rounded up any more candidates?
[09:59] <ogra> ajmitch: dholbach is packaging his first packages... and HrdwrBoB will join us too it seems :)
[09:59] <ajmitch> ogra: good
[09:59] <ogra> if i keep this rate we will have 365 MOTUs in a year ;)
[10:00] <ajmitch> ogra: you should run packaging mentoring classes for the MOTUs ;)
[10:00] <ajmitch> because I'd imagine you'll be spending a reasonable amoiunt of time reviewing packages
[10:00] <ogra> ajmitch: considering it ;) 
[10:01] <ajmitch> #debian-mentors & the accompanying lists are useful
[10:01] <ogra> at the current rate my other ubuntu work falls a bit behind...which is not good....
[10:02] <ajmitch> yep
[10:02] <ogra> and unfortunately i still have a job to earn my life (6h meeting with the CTO today...)
[10:03] <ajmitch> ouch
[10:03] <ajmitch> I'll be starting a coding job soon, actually
[10:03] <lamont> elmo: please sync aqsis
[10:03] <ogra> lucky you
[10:04] <lamont> aqsis_1.0.0-1 that is
[10:04] <ajmitch> low pay, coding php.. not that lucky :)
[10:04] <ajmitch> part-time, too
[10:04] <HrdwrBoB> better than a poke in the eye witha  sharp stick
[10:04] <ajmitch> yep
[10:05] <ogra> ajmitch: since november i'm more a politician....then a technician....its boring and sad...but pays my rent :(
[10:05] <mdz> lamont: also cleaning out some of the junk in the debian->ubuntu diff, I see
[10:05] <lamont> mdz: yeah
[10:05] <mdz> lamont: sync requests should go via email so that we have an audit trail
[10:05] <lamont> mdz: ok
[10:05] <ajmitch> ogra: ouch
[10:06] <ajmitch> there's a possibility of a sysadmin job coming up for me, which is one reason I want this selinux stuff working :)
[10:06] <ogra> ajmitch: but php coding is a good start....better then mine was....(support for dialup users in '96)
[10:07] <HrdwrBoB> sysadmin is highly overrated ;)
[10:07] <ajmitch> HrdwrBoB: I know, but it'd pay the rent :)
[10:07] <ogra> ajmitch: it gets boring after some time....but you get connections for better jobs :)
[10:08] <ajmitch> heh
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> speaking of work, I'm off, later
[10:08] <ogra> ciao
[10:08] <ajmitch> bye
[10:08] <ajmitch> yeah, I'll end up with a couple of part-time jobs, rather than one fulltime
[10:12] <thully> what is this array 3.5 - I just burned the latest daily build of the live CD to test, is it the same
[10:12] <ajmitch> dunno, I accidentally deleted my overnight download with rsync :)
[10:12] <lamont> :n
[10:13] <lamont> :q
[10:13] <lamont> why does it do that, I wonder...
[10:13] <thully> I just checked - they are one and the same
[10:14] <thully> BTW, array 3.5 looks awesome!  networking works good, and I wasn't bothered with too many questions
[10:14] <sivang> when I have a working new package I did, debdiff would be best to do to provide a patch ?
[10:14] <sivang> (It's a amodified source pkg)
[10:17] <melazyboy2> Just wanted to make a package suggestion, Orpheus, it's a text-based console/terminal audio player available at konst.org.ua/orpheus
[10:18] <ajmitch> melazyboy2: you could put it on the universe candidates wiki page
[10:19] <ajmitch> is it packaged, and is it under a free license?
[10:20] <melazyboy2> ajmitch: its not even on debian sid =/
[10:20] <melazyboy2> ajmitch: Im just hoping it allows me to play in a true alsa enviroment, a feture that mp3blaster lacks
[10:20] <ajmitch> melazyboy2: ok, I'll throw together a package
[10:21] <melazyboy2> ajmitch: Awesome thanks, that guy also produces centericq, one of my alltime favorite utilities
[10:21] <T-Bone> melazyboy2: how is it better than mp3blaster for instance?
[10:21] <ajmitch> if it allows you to pass options to ogg123 & mpg123 to use alsa, then it should
[10:22] <melazyboy2> T-Bone: Allows you to edit id3 tags, play cds and has the centericq interface, also exports playing files and has alot of other options
[10:22] <melazyboy2> ajmitch: I can pass those options to ogg123, mp3blaster can't
[10:23] <melazyboy2> aucutually now that i think about it, im not evne sure mp3blaster can play oggs at all =/
[10:24] <melazyboy2> yes it can
[10:24] <T-Bone> heh
[10:28] <ajmitch> cdbs makes for nice, quick packaging at times
[10:28] <ajmitch> wb ogra 
[10:28] <ogra> :(
[10:28] <ogra> array 3.5 still doesnt like my laptop
[10:29] <ajmitch> melazyboy2: lots of compile warnings, no errors so far though
[10:30] <ogra> mdz: 640x480 instead of 1280x800, still no pcmcia....
[10:31] <amu> ogra: ppc & nv? 
[10:31] <ajmitch> melazyboy2: deb built, now I need to write a manpage for it
[10:31] <ogra> amu: amd64, nv
[10:31] <amu> ogra: same here with i386 and nv 
[10:31] <mdz> lamont: did you make that pcmcia-cs fix?
[10:32] <mdz> ogra,amu: one of you should file a bug about it, if it is not already filed
[10:32] <ogra> amu: i had expected the X error...but not the pcmcia....
[10:33] <lamont> mdz: no - still waiting to understand where to crib from....
[10:33] <ogra> mdz: i know, i wanted to file it last weekend (have already promised it to daniels)
[10:33] <ajmitch> ogra: just about got a new deb for you :)
[10:33] <amu> ogra: booting with a pluged in card, i've no trouble, i didnt checked removing pcmcia from a running sys ... nethertheless added to the testproto 
[10:34] <lamont> Kamion: where does the install process decide whether or not to install pcmcia-cs?
[10:34] <mdz> amu: the Warty live CD uses TZ=UTC, right?
[10:34] <ogra> amu: /etc/init.d/pcmcia is missing.... even plugging out and in wont help
[10:34] <mdz> the package is not installed
[10:34] <mdz> (pcmcia-cs)
[10:34] <ogra> mdz: yup... #5730
[10:35] <amu> mdz: ...hmm hard to say :) sorry can't remember
[10:36] <mdz> amu: it just seems strange, that people testing the hoary live CD seem to notice that it uses UTC
[10:36] <mdz> but surely this is normal for a live CD
[10:37] <ogra> i noticed that my panel clock was english....it said Thu ... but the time was right....
[10:41] <amu> mdz: sounds logic for me too 
[10:41] <amu> mdz: if you want i'll check it ... still have the old images  
[10:41] <amu> sorry 24reconnect :) 
[10:42] <ogra> amu: still t-online ?
[10:43] <amu> ogra: no :) they offer just net with 1 ip, i need a small net  
[10:43] <ajmitch> melazyboy2: ok, debs seems to be working..
[10:43] <T-Bone> lamont: immediately after asking for ppp iirc ;)
[10:45] <ogra> lamont: my pcmcia card is detected and the LEDs light up....the dhcp seems to work too... but once in the desktop its gone
[10:46] <ogra> i'll reboot again soon and check on the console
[10:46] <thully> The preset password for the user on the live CD for Hoary is ubuntu , correct?  Because when I click the update manager and enter my password to see the updates, nothing happens
[10:46] <amu> ogra: same here booted, in german everthing is "english" 
[10:53] <elmo> lamont: violates UVF - please mail mdz & jeff, cc me
[10:55] <amu> mdz: TZ in warty was not UTC  
[10:56] <mdz> amu: what was it?
[10:56] <amu> KTZ="$(getbootparam tz 2>/dev/null)"
[10:56] <amu> [ -f "/usr/share/zoneinfo/$KTZ" ]  && TZ="$KTZ"
[10:56] <amu> if [ -f "/usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ" ] ; then
[10:56] <amu>    rm -f /etc/localtime
[10:56] <amu>    cp "/usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ" /etc/localtime
[10:56] <amu> fi
[10:56] <mdz> what is the tz parameter set to by default?
[10:57] <amu> mdz: it was not set 
[10:58] <amu> :-) 
[10:59] <mdz> ...
[10:59] <ogra> it disapperars exactly when it says "gonig down...."
[10:59] <mdz> ogra: yes
[10:59] <mdz> ogra: d-i has pcmcia support
[10:59] <mdz> ogra: but there are no pcmcia packages installed in the desktop image
[10:59] <ogra> yup....
[10:59] <mdz> this is known
[11:00] <mdz> Kamion: I don't suppose there is a shell getopt available in the d-i initrd?
[11:01] <minghua> Hi, I am wondering how can I request a update for packages in Hoary universe.
[11:01] <ogra> resolving the X bug will be a harder task....took me nearly a weekend to figure out the modeline i need... no way to get it working with hsync vrefresh..
[11:02] <minghua> I am the debian maintainer of scim package, a input method package for CJK languages
[11:02] <mdz> minghua: you can email ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com (remember to include the version number of the package)
[11:02] <ogra> minghua: drop a mail to the ubuntu-devel list....
[11:02] <minghua> I see, thanks mdz and ogra
[11:03] <lamont> elmo: yeah - that's the plan
[11:04] <abelli> smurfix: ding
[11:04] <smurfix> dong ?
[11:04] <abelli> smurfix: your mailman is in german,
[11:04] <smurfix> bah. I'll teach it not to do that.
[11:05] <abelli> other thing there will be opportunities for email forwarding with ubuntu-it.org
[11:05] <abelli> ?
[11:06] <smurfix> no problem.
[11:06] <smurfix> abelli: OK, default should be en now
[11:07] <abelli> smurfix: thank you very much... it wasn't really an issue, i didnt know if i did subscribe or not, since the email you sent me was in german too. :)
[11:08] <smurfix> abelli: there was a paragraph in english though. ;-)
[11:08] <abelli> the first line?!? =)
[11:11] <mdz> lamont: hwclock still doesn't know how to access the hardware clock on amd64, apparently
[11:11] <mdz> lamont: is there a patch out there for that?
[11:22] <amu> mdz: build a new warty, extracted it, and checked eveything, TZ is untouched, localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/UTC  
[11:26] <lifeless> erm, has something been removed from evolution ? updated just now to latest hoary, and my ssh-tunnel options and functionality have gone byebye
[11:28] <sm> it's certainly got issues.. filtering is broken
[11:28] <ogra> lifeless: lucky you....mine dies with a floating point excepion
[11:29] <lifeless> its functionality I depend heavily upon :[
[11:29] <HrdwrBoB> sm: you're it
[11:29] <ogra> me too...
[11:30] <ogra> lifeless: morgue.ubuntu.com ... but downgrade is a pita
[11:31] <sladen> mdz: hwclock should just be going through the kernel, I think
[11:32] <ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/hwclockfirst.sh  start
[11:32] <ogra>  * Setting the System Clock using the Hardware Clock as reference...     [ ok ] 
[11:33] <ogra> hmm, no error i its not during bootup....
[11:33] <ogra> s/i/if/
[11:33] <sladen> ogra: I think it opens /dev/rtc, does that exist at that point
[11:33] <sladen> mdz: is this live/amd64 or all amd64
[11:33] <ogra> sladen: good point.... maybe a udev/ordering issue
[11:34] <ogra> all
[11:34] <ogra> it happens on every boot here
[11:34] <sladen> mdz/ogra: I can believe that udev doesn't bother since, it's not as though it can find it on the PCI bus :)
[11:37] <amu> ogra: you still online with a liveCD ? 
[11:37] <ogra> amu: i never was... no pcmcia, no net :/
[11:39] <amu> somebody else, i need to know which version of update-notifier is installed
[11:45] <mdz> sladen: this happened to be live/amd64
[11:45] <mdz> sladen: yes, it goes through the kernel, but there are several ways to do that; it differs from one architecture to the next
[11:46] <mdz> I would expect that on a modern port like amd64 it would use /dev/rtc
[11:46] <mdz> amu: /casper/filesystem.manifest
[11:46] <mdz> amu: has a list of versions of all packages
[11:48] <mdz> lamont: does the daily d-i build happen in time for the daily live CD build?
[11:58] <amu> mdz: thx
[11:59] <amu> mdz: #5942, guess he has not enough ram? 
[12:00] <mdz> amu: 5942 is a typo