[12:00] <lifeless> jdub: ping
[12:06] <mdz> wow, the extra seed is very small
[12:07] <mdz> daniels: ing
[12:08] <mdz> ping
[12:08] <amu> mdz: err 5943
[12:08] <ogra> hmm, not even moving it to S26 (after rtc is loaded) helps....
[12:08] <mdz> amu: yes
[12:08] <mdz> build-essential is huge
[12:09] <amu> mdz: thx
[12:09] <mdz> amu: he can try booting with a larger ramdisk_size
[12:09] <mdz> probably we should increase the default even
[12:10] <ogra> gah evo is broken again....
[12:11] <jdub> lifeless: pong
[12:12] <lifeless> jdub: you mentioned a new imap implementation for evo. It looks like it doesn't support the external-command facility that I use to access my email.. and that the older imap code has been removed from evo.
[12:12] <lifeless> jdub: so I'm rather fucked on email :[
[12:12] <amu> mdz: i think less it's better, i'll work a little with the live tomorrow and watch the ramuseage very carefull    
[12:12] <jdub> erm
[12:12] <jdub> i don't think that's true
[12:13] <jdub> latest evo in hoary?
[12:13] <jdub> elmo: ping
[12:13] <lifeless> yes
[12:13] <lifeless> theres only one Imap type now
[12:13] <lifeless> and it has the description the new code had when I glanced at it @ your house the other week
[12:13] <lifeless> 'IMAPv4rev1'
[12:14] <carlos> lifeless: yes, you need to reconfigure your imap settings
[12:14] <mdz> ogra: I noticed recently that there is a UniverseCandidates page with packages that people would like to see added to universe
[12:14] <carlos> lifeless: I think you should come back to previous version if you don't want to fight with evolution
[12:14] <ogra> mdz: i'll link to it from the MOTU page
[12:15] <carlos> the "reply to list" is not working anymore
[12:15] <ogra> gah
[12:15] <carlos> the CC field is erased while you write the email
[12:15] <mdz> jbailey: there is already one NFS server howto in the wiki; it would be better to improve that one
[12:15] <ogra> on amddd64 its segfaulting totally
[12:15] <ogra> evo that is....
[12:16] <carlos> and some others 
[12:16] <lifeless> carlos: the options to reconfigure *are missing*.
[12:16] <jbailey> mdz: Ah?  Okay. I thought I search for it.  Will combine the two.
[12:16] <carlos> lifeless: really?
[12:16] <carlos> didn't saw it
[12:16] <carlos> let me check
[12:16] <lifeless> carlos: really. I use ssh tunneled iMAP.
[12:16] <elmo> jdub: ?
[12:16] <jbailey> lifeless: The latest evo sucks rocks in a few different ways.  You might be better to pin the old one.
[12:17] <carlos> lifeless: right, that option is not there anymore
[12:17] <mdz> jdub: what's up with gnome-app-installer
[12:17] <lifeless> jbailey: yeah, sounds like. now to figure out how to get it back easily :[
[12:17] <jbailey> lifeless: Your apt cache?
[12:17] <jdub> elmo: could you check what's up with that second include on planet ubuntu?
[12:17] <carlos> lifeless: dpkg -i /var/cache/... of evo && dependencies, not too easy but should work
[12:17] <lifeless> jbailey: perhaps ;|
[12:18] <elmo> jdub: there is no entropy.inc ?
[12:18] <jdub> mdz: getting some fixes from ross, and i've pretty much got the .desktop sucker going
[12:18] <elmo> did you want me to run planet for config/entropy too?
[12:18] <elmo> I tried but it spasssed out hideously
[12:18] <jdub> :-)
[12:18] <jdub> yes, thanks
[12:19] <jdub> it would have spewed the same way the others did :)
[12:19] <mdz> jdub: are the HUGE FONTS GOING TO STAY?
[12:19] <mdz> jdub: is sodipodi (universe) just there as a test case?
[12:19] <elmo> jdub: nah, it was much worse before, but you're right, it's just doing that now
[12:20] <lifeless> carlos: so, is the ssh option going to come back? or should I file a bug to prod that
[12:21] <elmo> jdub: now it's just empty?
[12:21] <carlos> lifeless: no idea, but I think you should file a bug about it, don't think it depends on imapv4, seems like they forgot to implement it 
[12:21] <lifeless> ubuntu.com or upstream ?
[12:22] <ogra> mdz: i added the link, but UniverseCandidates content is not really convincing....
[12:23] <carlos> lifeless: ask seb128 about it, don't know how that is handled in Ubuntu/GNOME, I suppose you could file a bug in bugzilla.ximian.com and send the link to seb so you save time for him
[12:23] <lifeless> seb128: ^^^^^
[12:23] <jdub> mdz: yes and yes. :)
[12:23] <jdub> elmo: yeah, ok
[12:25] <seb128> carlos, lifeless: what's the issue ?
[12:25] <carlos> seb128: evolution bugs not related to Ubuntu packages
[12:25] <lifeless> seb128: ssh tunnel support (external connection commands) for imap is gone in the latst evo.
[12:25] <seb128> jdub: dude, new gamin require, I'm not sure (not rebooted yet), but apparently the current one doesn't handle inotify 0.18
[12:25] <lifeless> seb128: should I file a bug, and if so in bug..u.c or upstream ?
[12:26] <carlos> seb128: should be filed directly at bugzilla.ximian.com or to ubuntu's bugzilla and you will care about them?
[12:26] <seb128> lifeless: better to go upstream
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: yeah, i know; fabbione uploaded while i was asleep :-)
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: doing it first priority this morning
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: ah ah
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: you sleep too much dude :p
[12:26] <lifeless> seb128: do you know their plans about the ssh support ?
[12:26] <jdub> all a matter of timezone perspective. ;)
[12:26] <seb128> no idea
[12:29] <jdub> dear thom, ROCK!, love jdub
[12:29] <lifeless> oh great. 
[12:29] <seb128> firefox user ? :)
[12:30] <lifeless> to login to bug.x.com, I need them to email the password to me.
[12:30] <lifeless> guess what I can't use right now ?!
[12:30] <jdub> lifeless: your legs? you can't walk to the phone! NOOOOO!
[12:30] <lifeless> ')
[12:31] <lifeless> iz biological bug
[12:39] <seb128> what was the issue ?
[12:39] <tseng> jdub: tomboy has arrived!
[12:39] <tseng> jdub: let me upload the goods for you.
[12:40] <ogra> seb128: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5870
[12:41] <seb128> oh, it was assigned to nobody
[12:42] <seb128> jdub: they changed my state of packaging machine :p "<elijah> seb128: has 548 bugs closed already this month; he's a bug closing machine"
[12:42] <ogra> yeah
[12:43] <ogra> they are absolutely right :)
[12:43] <tseng> jdub: http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/tomboy/
[12:44] <jdub> tseng: working on other stuff just atm, but will load up the page for a bit later :)
[12:44] <tseng> jdub: wonderful, ta
[12:59] <tseng> jdub: when you get to that, refresh it if you dont mind.. i have a few ?s as well.
[01:09] <carlos> sladen: hi
[01:09] <carlos> sladen: around?
[01:11] <sladen> carlos: vagely
[01:16] <bluefoxicy> huh?
[01:16] <bluefoxicy> one of the goals of hoary (opportunistic low-prio) is NX?
[01:17] <bluefoxicy> I thought there weren't going to be added security features in Hoary (PaX[NX + ASLR] , GrSec hardened kernels, SSP, PIE, etc)?  Is this a different definition of NX?
[01:21] <bluefoxicy> I like the hoary goals I think. . .
[01:24] <tseng> bluefoxicy: look at where that goal is listed
[01:24] <tseng> its pretty low on the list iirc
[01:25] <tseng> and goals are goals, not hard requirements
[01:28] <mdz> bluefoxicy: http://www.nomachine.com/
[01:28] <mdz> bluefoxicy: that NX
[01:30] <ajmitch> bluefoxicy: it's a great NX, too
[01:30] <ajmitch> however Mithrandir said he was wanting to rewrite the freenx server
[01:30] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I know
[01:30] <bluefoxicy> I'm just curious
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> ahh
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> mdz, ajmitch:  Ok, that's not what I was thinking of then.
[01:31] <ajmitch> yeah :)
[01:31] <ajmitch> the other NX will take a bit of work with PaX & all
[01:32] <bluefoxicy> I'm still a bit taken back that simple things like grsecurity linking restrictions (which are supposed to dead-stop the tmpfile races in USN 3-1, 5-1, 6-1, 4-1, 13-1, 15-1, 16-1, 24-1, 43-1, 49-1, 51-1) aren't going in, but eh.  pitti said (Hoary+1) so :)
[01:33] <tseng> bluefoxicy: i wish you would quit trolling people with your pumped up statistics
[01:33] <daniels> mdz: pong
[01:33] <tseng> bluefoxicy: esp. on lkml
[01:33] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I don't pump anything up, and I'm not trolling, just feeling around.
[01:33] <mdz> daniels: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/germinate-hoary-output/extra.seed
[01:34] <mdz> daniels: looks like a bunch of lrm stuff is not seeded
[01:35] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I have nothing better to do anyway
[01:35] <daniels> mdz: ok, will take care of it along the same lines as the old lrm stuff was
[01:35] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  http://rafb.net/paste/results/tZ5Jp878.html Aside from fool around with my kernel
[01:37] <thully> Just installed from the latest daily build - Hoary sure has improved, and the clock issue seems resolved
[01:38] <thully> However, I have a few questions about the default behavior in the installer
[01:38] <thully> First of all, it seems a little strange that we ask 2 questions in stage 2 - could these be eliminated?
[01:39] <tseng> thully: thats being worked on.
[01:39] <tritium> can't quite get ppc livecd to boot using qemu-system-ppc on i686 (invalid opcode)
[01:39] <mdz> tritium: works for me on a real ppc
[01:39] <thully> Also, I like how networking was handled on the live CD, but not on the install CD - any chance the install CD debian-installer could be changed?
[01:40] <tritium> mdz, using qemu?
[01:40] <tseng> thully: he qualified "real"
[01:40] <mdz> tritium: no, on an actual powerpc machine
[01:40] <thully> tseng - ?
[01:41] <mdz> tritium: so probably it is a bug in qemu
[01:41] <tritium> mdz, I'm sure.  Yeah, I tried the live CD earlier.  I reported that bug for daniels re: screen resolution
[01:41] <tritium> I was using G3 earlier
[01:42] <mdz> ah, right
[01:43] <thully> I really liked how the network detection picked up wi-fi without asking me - after booting I was on the wireless network! (only one other live distro has done that for me - Kanotix)
[01:43] <thully> Any chance this no-question network configuration could also be done in the install CD?
 tritium: works for me on a real ppc <tritium> mdz, using qemu?
[01:45] <mdz> bluefoxicy: no need for that
[01:46] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  I think he probably missed "real," but the exchange is funny
[01:46] <tritium> bluefoxicy, well, of course it works when not using qemu ;)
[01:47] <thully> is the loopback interface appearing as a network interface in the system tray a known bug?  If not, i'll report it
[01:48] <lexhider> daniels: can I ask you about bug 5917.
[01:48] <jdub> seb128: rebooting to test new inotify and gamin :)
[01:48] <seb128> jdub: rock :)
[01:51] <daniels> lexhider: sure
[01:53] <lexhider> you said it may be monitor hardware bug, I've been using this monitor with linux for 3 years with no problems. Is it still possible that this is the problem?
[01:54] <daniels> lexhider: i suppose ... it certainly seems very, very strange
[01:55] <jdub> seb128: ah, crap. :)
[01:55] <tritium> lexhider, what architecture are you using?
[01:55] <seb128> jdub: doesn't work ? :(
[01:55] <tritium> that bug is similar to my bug today (5490) in PPC for the LiveCD
[01:55] <tritium> 5940, that is
[01:55] <jdub> seb128: got gam_server processes running, dying, running, dying, six at one time...
[01:56] <jdub> ;-)
[01:56] <seb128> utch
[01:56] <lexhider> i386
[01:56] <lexhider> adm
[01:58] <lexhider> when you say "hardware bug", do you mean a problem with this specific monitor or do you mean a problem with this particular monitor model [viewsonic e70 by the way] ?
[02:00] <bluefoxicy> wtf
[02:01] <daniels> bluefoxicy: i mean, for whatever reason, when it first boots, the monitor is totally unresponsive to probes for its sync ranges and resolutions.  i do not know how widespread this is; you'll have to forgive me for not being a connisseur of viewsonic monitosrs.
[02:01] <tritium> lexhider, I think you should add HorizSync and VertRefresh to your xorg.conf.  Your monitor probably doens't report edid
[02:01] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  uh?
[02:02] <tritium> doesn't, that is
[02:02] <daniels> tritium: it does, just not all the time
[02:02] <tritium> okay
[02:03] <lexhider> 1) I haven't been able to reboot to test if it happens with monitor off because I'm on dialup and it doesn't happen every reboot.
[02:03] <lexhider> I had no problems with warty with same monitor if that is relevant.
[02:05] <thully> I was just thinking about a few things, and I was wondering - how was the decision made on what to include on the Hoary live CD
[02:09] <jdub> the livecd, atm, is the default desktop install
[02:10] <thully> why can't everything on the install CD be included?
[02:10] <jdub> well, that's basically what the desktop install is
[02:10] <jdub> the install cd happens to contain the ship seed
[02:10] <daniels> lexhider: yeah, warty does things a bit different
[02:10] <jdub> the live cd is desktop seed + live seed (which we might not be using yet)
[02:11] <jdub> the install cd is desktop seed + ship seed (which is not installed by default)
[02:11] <thully> yes - but there is more on the install CD that isn't installed by default
[02:11] <jdub> that's the ship seed
[02:12] <jdub> some of it is just inappropriate
[02:13] <lexhider> daniels: I'll try some rebooting and other things and be back later.
[02:14] <thully> OK - i just wondered because I use some of the stuff not installed by default and it would be nice to have in an emergency (using the live cd)
[02:14] <jdub> if they make sense, we can put them in live seed
[02:15] <thully> they probably don't - I was talking about thunderbird, compilers, and kernel headers specifically - don't know how much space these would take up compressed on the live cd, though
[02:19] <mdz> we could very well end up adding build-essential to the live CD, it's not clear yet
[02:19] <mdz> if you have real use cases to contribute, that helps
[02:21] <thully> when you have to use your winmodem in an emergency - keep the files on a floppy or usb key and build them
[02:22] <tritium> on the other hand, in the case of an emergency, be prepared (have them pre-built)
[02:23] <thully> what if you're on another machine you don't usually use?
[02:23] <thully> also, compilers could be useful for building anything special needed for recovery not in Ubuntu, and for computer science classes :)
[02:24] <thully> thunderbird - well, I prefer thunderbird over evolution and that's the first thing I install after installing Ubuntu :)
[02:24] <tritium> each user has their own needs, though - mine would be tetex
[02:27] <thully> someone should keep an ordered list of package requests for the live CD and add these on a space-permitting basis
[02:28] <thully> may be a good idea for install CD, also (adding additional packages based on what people want on a space-available basis)
[02:30] <dholbach> re
[02:30] <tseng> wb.
[02:31] <ajmitch> hi
[02:31] <dholbach> hai tseng :-)
[02:31] <dholbach> wow, this place is really crowded :-)
[02:32] <ajmitch> yeah, it's getting busier
[02:32] <ajmitch> I heard ogra lured you to apply to be a MOTU?
[02:33] <dholbach> ajmitch: he didnt have much to do to lure me :-)
[02:33] <ajmitch> :)
[02:34] <jdodson> hey daniels you around?
[02:34] <ajmitch> dholbach: planning to maintain a certain set of packages?
[02:34] <daniels> jdodson: sup
[02:35] <jdodson> daniels: nada, well i checked out the tickets like you mentioned, found a cheaper one for 1,200 usd.
[02:35] <dholbach> ajmitch: i'd love to be helping out at whatever part there's a need 
[02:36] <daniels> jdodson: nice one
[02:36] <jdodson> daniels: yeah, thanks for the heads up.
[02:36] <daniels> any time :)
[02:36] <jdodson> daniels: i think its obvious my wife usually does the trip arrangements:)
[02:37] <daniels> ah well, worked out for the best anyway
[02:38] <dholbach> ajmitch: but a first thing i really wanted to do was packaging more recent c++ stuff and cleaning stuff up together with debian people (like libg*mm-packages)
[02:38] <jdodson> daniels: agreed.
[02:43] <ajmitch> dholbach: we'll just have to ensure that packaging quality is kept at a high level
[02:43] <ajmitch> for all the universe packages that are touched
[02:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: of course
[02:44] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[02:44] <jdub> dholbach: rock, *mm action :)
[02:44] <ajmitch> yes, apparantly people still use c++ these days :)
[02:45] <mdz> lamont: Kamion answered your pcmcia-cs question in Bugzilla already (#5730)
[02:45] <dholbach> jdub: we'll have to knock some comprehension into some debian people, but *mm absolutely rocks ;-)
[02:46] <ajmitch> how bad is the situation in debian?
[02:46] <daniels> shouldn't we have some part of hoary-seeds cachrevved or wahtever?
[02:46] <daniels> it's taking like a hojillion years to get it
[02:47] <dholbach> ajmitch: i wrote some bug reports with  tested  and  compiled  new upstream versions on my box, but there was no measureable reaction
[02:48] <dholbach> ajmitch: the situation could be worse, since most developers tend to compile their own libg*mm packages, but that's not how i'd want it to be
[02:48] <ajmitch> if there are packages around, nobody should have to compile their own
[02:49] <ajmitch> are they badly packaged, or just out of date?
[02:49] <dholbach> ajmitch: the latter
[02:49] <ajmitch> not so bad then
[02:49] <dholbach> damn, i'll have to get up in 4 hours
[02:49] <ajmitch> heh
[02:50] <ajmitch> I'll be gone for the weekend, luckily
[02:50] <dholbach> and i shouldnt have been drinking that much
[02:50] <dholbach> ................. :-)
[02:50] <daniels> hm
[02:50] <ajmitch> and I've recently been offered a part-time job, so I'll most likely be able to get to .au in april/may :)
[02:50] <dholbach> ajmitch: lucky you *congrats!*
[02:50] <daniels> mdz: afaict all my unseeded stuff just belongs in supported -- do you disagree with that assessment?
[03:03] <elmo> boggle, we don't support libapache2-svn? meh
[03:07] <dholbach> alright... sleep tight everyone - i'm off to bed :-)
[03:07] <ajmitch> night
[03:08] <dholbach> night ajmitch
[03:15] <mdz> daniels: I suppose
[03:15] <mdz> daniels: xfree86?
[03:15] <mdz> daniels: isn't fglrx-control the awful config program?
[03:16] <daniels> mdz: i'm much happier not needing to support xfree86* :)
[03:16] <daniels> mdz: well, yeah, xfree86-driver-fglrx would need to be in universe, given that it depends xfree86, which is in universe
[03:16] <daniels> mdz: yah, it's some qt horror
[03:17] <mdz> daniels: those do not sound like they belong in supported
[03:17] <mdz> nothing with 'xfree86' or 'horror' in it, I'd say
[03:17] <jdub> "horror" and "supported" are not compatible
[03:19] <daniels> so what do I do to get germinate to stfu about them?
[03:24] <jdub> uploading dnotify-only gamin due to current inotify support being b0rk.
[03:30] <tseng> =/
[03:33] <jdub> yeah
[03:34] <jdub> it'll sort out in the next few days though
[03:34] <jdub> meanwhile
[03:34] <jdub> BEAGLE
[03:34] <jdub> very nearly in hoary :)
[03:34] <ajmitch> great
[03:34] <ajmitch> universe?
[03:35] <jdub> yeah
[03:35] <jdub> tonight or tomorrow
[03:35] <ajmitch> sweet
[03:35] <ajmitch> might give me an excuse to put hoary on the laptop
[03:35] <jdub> 'might'? :)
[03:35] <ajmitch> I've been tempted
[03:36] <ajmitch> it has sid currently 
[03:38] <tritium> jdub, what kind of dependencies does it have?  lots of mono packages?
[03:38] <jdub> tritium: yes
[03:40] <ajmitch> hopefully not too much that's mono-specific
[03:40] <jdub> it's way mono
[03:40] <jdub> the protocols don't require you to write stuff in mono
[03:40] <jdub> but the whole infrastructure of beagle is way mono
[03:40] <ajmitch> as in, I hope i can get it working on pnet
[03:40] <ajmitch> rather than just mono :)
[03:41] <jdub> ew.
[03:41] <tseng> we still need evo-sharp
[03:41] <tseng> and gsf-sharp, whatever that is
[03:41] <jdub> tseng: there are non-required depends
[03:41] <jdub> those two are the most important
[03:41] <tseng> well, it wouldnt make sense to send it out w/o evo support
[03:41] <jdub> beagle can also use wv (wordview, not wvstreams) 1.0, but can't use 2
[03:41] <jdub> tseng: yes, see log from last night :)
[03:42] <tritium> the demo I saw of beagle was impressive.  made me think twice about it
[03:42] <jdub> we have the *required* depends, but not the crucial optional depends. whiprush and some of the arslinux crew were going to work on those.
[03:42] <jdub> tritium: you had to think twice?
[03:43] <whiprush> this thunderbird one appears to not work.
[03:43] <tritium> jdub, well, about installing the mono stuff just for beagle
[03:47] <sivang> morning all
[03:48] <lamont> I didn't even upgrade this time. :-)
[03:54] <jdub> tritium: 'just' for beagle is far more convincing than 'just' for tomboy, muine, etc.
[03:54] <jdub> tritium: beagle really does change how you use your computer
[03:54] <jdub> night lamont
[03:54] <tritium> jdub, after seeing it's capabilities in the demo, I'll agree
[03:55] <tritium> with that statement
[03:55] <whiprush> It'd be neat if you could put a field in your panel ala the contact search one and shortcut right into it.
[03:55] <jdub> whiprush: ah, see auric notes on the gnome wiki
[03:55] <jdub> whiprush: also F12 kicks best and focuses the search entry :)
[03:55] <whiprush> yeah that's what I was alluding to.
[03:56] <whiprush> yeah, it's a killer combo with f11 for tomboy.
[03:57] <robertj> jdub: did you see that inotify has made it's way into Morton's kernel?
[03:57] <jdub> yeah :)
[03:57] <jdub> rocking!
[03:58] <robertj> jdub: are the inotify extensions still hot to the tuch or are they pretty steadyfast?
[03:59] <jdub> inotify itself works nicely
[03:59] <jdub> beagle uses inotify directly
[04:00] <jdub> gamin uses inotify, but the support for 0.18 is b0rk
[04:03] <robertj> so gamin is a stipped down userspace fam that is another consumer of inotify?
[04:03] <jdub> pretty much, yeah :)
[04:03] <jdub> though s/userspace/run-by-user/
[04:04] <jdub> it is binary compatible with the useful bits of fam, too
[04:04] <jdub> so you don't need to change software to work with it
[04:04] <robertj> is the idea to transition beagle over to gamin?
[04:04] <robertj> instead of playing directly with inotify
[04:06] <jdub> no
[04:06] <jdub> beagle is very demanding in its use of inotify
[04:06] <schweeb> heh, compile it with the mozilla backend, and it's very demanding with your memory too
[04:07] <jdub> beagle definitely has memory problems atm :)
[04:07] <robertj> so where does gamin fit into beagle, nowhere?
[04:07] <jdub> robertj: nowhere
[04:07] <robertj> so gamin is just like a "eh, well we might as well package it, something might need it"
[04:08] <schweeb> nautilus uses gamin for file notifications
[04:08] <robertj> ahh
[04:08] <jdub> no, gamin replaces fam, which is used by many things
[04:08] <jdub> nautilus, gnome-vfs, kde, etc.
[04:08] <robertj> clamav
[04:08] <whiprush> so, for example, as you copy a large file you get the nifty "xx MB" thing updated in real time under the icon or whatever."
[04:09] <whiprush> :p
[04:09] <whiprush> also, gamin doesn't tie up cdroms and usb keys like fam does. 
[04:10] <jdub> gamin does
[04:10] <schweeb> jdub: watch how passionate he is about this stuff IRL, you'll chuckle at him then too
[04:10] <jdub> if it uses the dnotify backend (which is all fam could use)
[04:10] <jdub> with inotify, it doesn't
[04:10] <whiprush> well, not counting your last upload, heh.
[04:10] <jdub> yeah. grr. ;)
[04:11] <whiprush> I see thom got in some ff integration patches. woo.
[04:11] <jdub> robertj: if you're using hoary, you have the whole list
[04:11] <robertj> is libgmime the right version?
[04:11] <schweeb> jdub: thanks for that btw <3
[04:11] <whiprush> yep
[04:12] <jdub> robertj: yeah
[04:13] <robertj> jdub: are beagle and the mono hooks packaged anywhere?
[04:13] <jdub> last night i wrote a todo item to update the beagle wiki page in the morning
[04:13] <jdub> when i got up, someone had already done it ;)
[04:13] <jdub> robertj: hooks?
[04:14] <robertj> jdub: Evolution-Sharp, Gsf-Sharp
[04:14] <jdub> no, the optional stuff is not packaged
[04:14] <jdub> whiprush: did you guys start on those?
[04:14] <whiprush> looked at some of them. 
[04:14] <robertj> Neither is beagle?
[04:15] <jdub> beagle itself isn't quite - i'll finish and upload it tonight or tomorrow
[04:15] <whiprush> what exactly do you need, a list of what you want as depends and what you want as recommends instead right?
[04:15] <schweeb> robertj: as long as you have all the depends, it takes like 3 mins to compile on a slow system
[04:15] <jdub> whiprush: i thought you guys wanted to package them?
[04:15] <robertj> schweep: just checking
[04:16] <whiprush> oh oh. we must have misunderstood each other then. I thought you just wanted us to try each of them out an gauge how well they worked.
[04:18] <jdub> ahr
[04:19] <whiprush> I can do some though, keeping in mind I'm brand new at this ... hmm, perhaps I need to bug tseng/ogra more.
[04:19] <tseng> whiprush: whats that?
[04:20] <whiprush> packaging in general.
[04:20] <tseng> ok.
[04:20] <jdub> mono stuff is slightly tougher than normal stuff
[04:21] <whiprush> yeah I noticed
[04:21] <tseng> i still need to come up with a tomboy patch to install to debian standard locations i believ
[04:21] <whiprush> hopefully I'll find a friendly DD at linuxworld t give me some pointers
[04:23] <robertj> schweeb: my clock is ticking on the 3 min thin ;)
[04:24] <schweeb> robertj: how fast is your system?  mine's a 1.7Ghz laptop w/ 640M RAM
[04:24] <robertj> 2.8 celeron 512
[04:25] <robertj> eMachine is rockin ;)
[04:25] <robertj> $300 last Oct
[04:25] <schweeb> ugh, emachine
[04:25] <schweeb> that's like saying "Packard Bell" back in the day
[04:25] <robertj> Maybe the AMD 64 will be $300 this October
[04:25] <robertj> My parents bought a PB as our first computer
[04:25] <robertj> we upgraded the ram from 4 to 8 megs and suffered a 300% speed decrease until we could afford a bios upgrade a few months later
[04:27] <robertj> btw, where does dbus-sharp come from (yes I did the export stuff)
[04:27] <whiprush> libdbus-cil
[04:28] <ajmitch> jdub: maybe I should dive in & help with mono packaging stuff as well? who's currently doing it?
[04:28] <robertj> thanks whip
[04:29] <jdub> ajmitch: no one in particular, daniels and i did dbus and gmime
[04:30] <jdub> ajmitch: just to have the base depends
[04:30] <ajmitch> right
[04:30] <ajmitch> so it's a matter of whoever can get the bits together
[04:30] <jdub> yeah
[04:31] <tseng> tomboy as an applet rocks
[04:31] <ajmitch> are you using released or cvs/svn snapshots of stuff/
[04:32] <schweeb> tseng: if only I could run applets in fluxbox w/o gnome panels ;_;
[04:32] <tseng> dbus-sharp 0.23
[04:32] <tseng> hopefully done cvs snapshotting that for awhile
[04:33] <daniels> tseng: interestingly, they're talking about doing 0.24 like, this week
[04:33] <tseng> daniels: i heard its getting chilly in hell.
[04:34] <ajmitch> unfortunately I'm visiting parents for weekend, not much chance of doing ubuntu stuff there
[04:42] <schweeb> ajmitch: heh, livecd!
[04:45] <daniels> elmo: could you please update linux-headers-* in concordia's hoary chroot?
[04:49] <elmo> daniels: done
[04:49] <daniels> elmo: thanks
[04:53] <robertj> anyone have the link to gnome's discussion of the Desktop menu
[05:05] <netdur> ubuntu livecd is first livecd for amd64 and ppc?
[05:08] <robertj> hrmm, beagle did build and install fine but best is unhappy
[05:09] <robertj> libgecko problem perhaps?
[05:09] <jdub> how unhappy?
[05:09] <schweeb> how is it unhappy?
[05:09] <jdub> error about dbus in the best output?
[05:10] <schweeb> doesn't it need a dbus-dev pkg or something
[05:10] <jdub> netdur: don't think so, but it's the first really slick one ;)
[05:10] <jdub> schweeb: yeah
[05:10] <robertj> let me check the logs
[05:10] <schweeb> be sure dbus-1-dev is installed
[05:11] <schweeb> and dbus-glib-1-dev
[05:11] <robertj> logs pretty spammy right now with the initial crawl
[05:11] <robertj> doesn't seem to spew anything else when best runs
[05:11] <robertj> (best:20339): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: specified instance size for type `GtkMozEmbed' is smaller than the parent type's `GtkBin' instance size
[05:17] <jdub> oh man
[05:17] <jdub> we should so get pyphany in
[05:18] <schweeb> pyphany?
[05:18] <schweeb> sounds... python-ish
[05:18] <schweeb> heh
[05:18] <robertj> or maybe gnome web browserish
[05:18] <robertj> It must be an Epiphany rewrite in python
[05:18] <jdub> python + epiphany
[05:18] <jdub> extensions silly, not a rewrite!
[05:18] <jdub> ouch
[05:18] <schweeb> ah, python epiphany binding
[05:18] <robertj> hehe
[05:19] <robertj> an un-googleable name ;)
[05:19] <schweeb> not raelly...
[05:19] <schweeb> worked for me
[05:19] <jdub> it's very new
[05:19] <robertj> hrmm
[05:19] <schweeb> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2005-January/msg00064.html
[05:24] <sivang> ogra: morning
[05:28] <sivang> jdub: what does it allow you to do?
[05:28] <jdub> write ephy extensions in python
[05:29] <sivang> jdub: eh , so we can turn it into a pyfox? ;-)
[05:52] <JanC> heh, sounds fun  :)
[05:55] <jdub> elmo: planet update please :)
[06:20] <elmo> jdub: done
[06:26] <jdub> thanks!
[07:57] <fabbione> morning
[08:45] <pitti> Morning folks!
[08:45] <pitti> bah, my main internet access is dead again... (modem now)
[08:45] <pitti> anything urgent?
[08:47] <pitti> mdz: here?
[08:57] <Treenaks> hm, should beagled eat all of my memory?
[09:23] <mdz> pitti: yes
[09:23] <pitti> mdz: is it a known bug that the array 3.5 live cd does not set locale, timezone and keyboard layout?
[09:24] <pitti> mdz: timezone was already reported on u-devel
[09:24] <mdz> pitti: it cannot set the time zone, and never will
[09:24] <mdz> no live CD does
[09:24] <pitti> oka
[09:24] <pitti> y
[09:24] <mdz> it does set the locale and keyboard layout
[09:24] <pitti> but at least locale and keyboard layout should work
[09:24] <mdz> at least, it does for me
[09:25] <pitti> hmm, I had an English locale (could also have been C) and an English keyboard layout
[09:25] <mdz> what is in /etc/environment?
[09:25] <pitti> mdz: this file does not exist
[09:25] <mdz> odd
[09:25] <pitti> so if it _should_ do it, then I can debug this further
[09:26] <pitti> mdz: just asking whether it was not yet implemented... :-)
[09:28] <pitti> Morning seb128!
[09:28] <seb128> hello
[09:28] <seb128> hey pitti :)
[09:41] <YokoZar> Hello, I am currently the Debian packager for the Wine project.  The "official" Debian maintainer hasn't been updating the packages and refuses to turn them over to me, so we've setup our own apt repository at winehq.org
[09:41] <YokoZar> The packages have been tested a lot, and are also in the Ubuntu backports project working fine.  I'm wondering if they could become the ones that sit on Ubuntu's repository, rather than the (very old) Debian unstable ones.
[09:44] <YokoZar> So, what's involved in getting this done?
[09:47] <pitti> YokoZar: since wine is currently in universe, the obstacles for maintaining it yourself are not that high :-)
[09:48] <YokoZar> Well what's involved in getting it into hoary universe then?
[09:48] <pitti> YokoZar: I think a good first step would be to announce your repo on ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[09:48] <pitti> YokoZar: then we can find somebody to upload
[09:48] <YokoZar> There's another issue: due to the nature of Wine, we REALLY can't support ppc or amd64 arches very well
[09:49] <pitti> YokoZar: and if you want to maintain them in Ubuntu, you can apply for becoming an universe maintainer
[09:49] <YokoZar> I suppose I could do that
[09:49] <pitti> YokoZar: that's excusable :-)
[09:49] <pitti> YokoZar: well, what means "very well"?
[09:49] <pitti> YokoZar: is't the package Arch: i386 only?
[09:49] <YokoZar> It's actually possible to get some use out of wine on non i386 arch's
[09:49] <YokoZar> You can use winelib to compile windows apps natively
[09:50] <YokoZar> I'm working on compiling Miranda IM with winelib at the moment
[09:50] <pitti> ah, but don't execute readymade exe files
[09:50] <YokoZar> In theory I could make it into a package that depends on Wine and could run on all arches
[09:50] <YokoZar> Which would be a nifty way of porting Miranda to ppc
[09:51] <YokoZar> All I need to do is learn some makefile goodness and I'll be set
[09:53] <YokoZar> Wine is getting very usable now.  The Ubuntu packages I made let you click and run .exe files, and they can even put icons on the desktop.  We're close to putting the start menu in the applications window too (Crossover Office already does this).
[09:53] <pitti> YokoZar: if your packages are better, please announce them on u-devel; also introduce yourself shortly if you want to apply as maintainer
[09:53] <pitti> YokoZar: sounds cool!
[09:53] <pitti> YokoZar: I tried the current wine once (because now I have a windows app I need to use), and I could not get it running
[09:54] <YokoZar> My packages?
[09:54] <syn-ack> YokoZar: sounds like you're starting to be more like codeweavers and how they do things. Im starting to get VERY interested... :)
[09:54] <pitti> YokoZar: getting maintainer status is much easier for Ubuntu/universe than for Debian :-)
[09:54] <YokoZar> Yeah.  Removing a debian maintainer is also impossible
[09:55] <YokoZar> I don't mean to sound conspiratorial, but the current Debian maintainer works for transgaming and has a real conflict of interest in making a timely release of a usable package
[09:55] <pitti> YokoZar: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewMaintainerProcessDraft
[09:56] <YokoZar> syn-ack: There's a program called Winetools that I'm packaging up now.  It's got a one-click setup and lets you install some apps that help wine work
[09:56] <YokoZar> It depends on nonfree Microsoft software though (it'll be in the contrib section), since it can be used to install internet explorer and such
[09:56] <syn-ack> YokoZar: good. Im thinking of uninstalling Crossover now.
[09:57] <Kamion> click and run .exe files> didn't we fix that in Debian years ago?
[09:57] <Kamion> maybe not ... IIRC Ove not adding the packaging change
[09:57] <YokoZar> Yeah there's been a mime type for debian for a bit
[09:57] <ogra> morning everyody....
[09:57] <Kamion> YokoZar: not a mime type, I meant the update-binfmts thing
[09:58] <ogra> gah.... first words this day and already a typo....
[09:58] <pitti> Hi ogra
[09:58] <syn-ack> YokoZar: You guys working on an ActiveX plugin? I hope not.
[09:58] <YokoZar> Don't remove crossover just yet if you play steam.  It's a bit broken in winehq.  But...we're close to getting DirectX 9 working (There are screenshots of Pirates! running) which means it's only a couple months before HL2 works
[09:58] <haggai> hi ogra 
[09:58] <mdz> YokoZar: are you interested in maintaining the packages in Debian on an ongoing basis?
[09:58] <YokoZar> syn-ack: not to my knowledge, no.  But it is quite possible that you'll be able to play HL2 on Hoary.  I'd give the odds at about 50:50, depending on when hoary gets frozen.
[09:59] <Kamion> hm, I should see if winehq manages Black and White, I had PAIN trying to build winex/cedega/whatever-it's-called-this-week
[09:59] <mdz> YokoZar: what is your name?
[09:59] <YokoZar> mdz: I'd maintain them for Debian and Ubuntu, yeah.  But I can't submit them for Debian, unless you want to NMU them :)
[09:59] <YokoZar> mdz: Scott Ritchie
[09:59] <ogra> :-D
[09:59] <ogra> is lamont already awake ?
[10:00] <mdz> YokoZar: as you may or may not already know, our maintainership model is quite different from Debian's, and one of the goals is to avoid having an inactive maintainer block others' work
[10:00] <dholbach> hai everyone
[10:00] <YokoZar> mdz: Yeah, I figured that.  If you're referring to the winetools package (which isn't maintained in Debian), it depends on a version of wine later than the latest debian release
[10:00] <mdz> YokoZar: you said that the Debian maintainer won't turn the packages over to you; is there a chance that the two of you could collaborate rather than one of you having exclusive ownership?
[10:00] <ogra> moin dholbach
[10:01] <dholbach> hellas ogra! :-)
[10:01] <YokoZar> mdz: He asked for a comaintainer a while ago.  I volunteered, offered up a new package version, he said "I'll hold onto the package for now" and then never released another update
[10:01] <haggai> YokoZar: how long ago?
[10:01] <amu> moins  
[10:02] <YokoZar> Well last update he uploaded was the september release, which is ancient in Wine terms.
[10:02] <ogra> hi amu
[10:02] <syn-ack> mdz: I like the sound of that. I do find that there is a lot of stale mantainership and politics that I cant stand in Debian. I like this because its more like because there seems to be more of a part of the community. Something more than just...... Stale.
[10:02] <YokoZar> I got an aim message from a user just thanking me for writing the package and saying how cool it was that he could get an icon on the desktop.  He used it to install partypoker and then won 800 dollars.  It was kind of flattering, heh.
[10:02] <mdz> YokoZar: where can I find your packages currently?
[10:03] <YokoZar> mdz: http://www.winehq.org/  - click the downloads page
[10:03] <YokoZar> And then either the debian or ubuntu link
[10:03] <amu> hi ogra
[10:04] <YokoZar> I wrote the text on that page too (I've been slowly rewriting Wine's documentation - I've already redone the introduction to the User Guide)
[10:04] <mdz> hmm, wine.sourceforge.net isn't answering me
[10:06] <haggai> it's working for me
[10:06] <ogra> here too
[10:07] <YokoZar> sf.net is erratic
[10:07] <mdz> finally got through
[10:08] <YokoZar> Wine is kind of in a transitory stage at the moment
[10:09] <YokoZar> We're finishing up the winecfg tool (a graphical configure thing) and eliminating the config file, moving stuff into the registry
[10:09] <YokoZar> But at the moment it doesn't write any changes.  However, wine will create a default setup when you run it, which should work for a lot of stuff.  Winetools will create an even better setup.
[10:10] <haggai> +  * Added dummy packages libwine (which depends on wine) and libwine-dev (which
[10:10] <haggai> +    depends on wine-dev) in order to ease upgrade from older versions.
[10:10] <haggai> YokoZar: you should be able to use provides/conflicts/replaces to avoid more packages
[10:10] <YokoZar> haggai: I can't for that though, because apt is buggy
[10:10] <haggai> YokoZar: in what way?
[10:11] <YokoZar> Two ways
[10:11] <YokoZar> The first is that it will output the old dependencies (this is an old bug in apt), saying that it recommends the (obsolete) winesetup
[10:11] <mdz> YokoZar: your packages look quite different from the Debian ones (incompatible, even)
[10:11] <mdz> e.g., you seem to have it split up differently
[10:11] <mdz> is this an explicit choice?
[10:12] <YokoZar> The other thing is that if you provide a wine that replaces/conflicts libwine apt will read the old wine depends file and conclude that you want to remove a dependency, and refuse to install
[10:12] <YokoZar> I set it up differently for a few reasons.  The first is that everything in wine is needed - the seperation of wine and libwine was arbitrary and breaking stuff
[10:12] <YokoZar> We had to ask people coming into IRC for help "Are you a debian user?  Yes?  Install from source then or get all the packages"
[10:13] <YokoZar> You need every wine binary to run even programs compiled with winelib (like I'm doing for Miranda) - there really is no point to splitting it.
[10:13] <YokoZar> Furthermore all the old libwine-* packages are obsolete, as Wine will automagically detect what sound server and such to use
[10:14] <haggai> YokoZar: do programs ever link against libraries in winelibs?  The seperation is partly for backwards compatibility
[10:14] <mdz> YokoZar: apt's use of recommends and suggests, while suboptimal, is purely informational and can't cause problems with an upgrade
[10:14] <dholbach> hai mvo_!
[10:14] <mvo_> hi dholbach 
[10:14] <YokoZar> mdz: that was an unrelated output bug
[10:14] <YokoZar> mdz: the real bug is that it reads the old dependencies
[10:14] <mdz> YokoZar: I find that very difficult to accept :-)
[10:15] <YokoZar> mdz: if you want to see the apt bug remove the libwine dummy package, move libwine into conflicts/replaces for wine, and try apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:15] <YokoZar> The Debian ones had tons of hacks in them that were no longer needed for Wine (in fact, they tended to break things.)  The best way to do it really was to start from scratch.
[10:16] <mdz> YokoZar: I don't have time to do an experiment like that right now, but if you describe it in more detail, I can probably explain what's really happening
[10:16] <YokoZar> The other problem I have is that that dummy package is over 2 megabytes, because I can't figure out how to remove the upstream changelog from it
[10:16] <haggai> YokoZar: I don't see any Provides: in wine
[10:16] <haggai> YokoZar: you need the Provides for a smooth upgrade
[10:16] <YokoZar> I believe I had that at one point (provides, replaces, conflicts)
[10:17] <YokoZar> I might be wrong though
[10:17] <YokoZar> I hope I am wrong and it's my stupidity (and misreading of documentation) that prompted my need for dummy packages
[10:17] <YokoZar> I'd really like to get rid of the dummy packages, especially since they're 2 megs each
[10:18] <haggai> hopefully that will fix it
[10:18] <Kamion> check your dh_installchangelogs calls, would be my guess
[10:19] <haggai> now, what about my question about linking earlier?  Does anything link directly against /usr/lib/libwine.so.1 & /usr/lib/libwine_unicode.so.1 ?
[10:19] <YokoZar> Also I would like to point out that in less than 10 minutes I love this channel about 100 times as much as #debian-devel, whose first instinct was to yell at me for not supporting all esoteric sound systems until I had to explain to them Wine's autodetection
[10:19] <YokoZar> oh yeah
[10:19] <YokoZar> linking
[10:19] <YokoZar> winelib compiled apps link to wine's libraries in /usr/lib/ and /usr/lib/wine
[10:20] <Kamion> YokoZar: your dummy packages should really be Architecture: all, and built in binary-indep
[10:20] <YokoZar> Kamion: thanks, will change
[10:20] <YokoZar> I just remembered I need to change the mime type file too, from MSDOS executable to Windows executable
[10:21] <Kamion> YokoZar: if you do that, then your binary-indep rule can simply say 'dh_installchangelogs -i' rather than 'dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog'
[10:21] <Kamion> and you won't get the upstream changelog
[10:21] <Kamion> you probably also want to add the -a option to many of the dh_* rules in binary-arch, and -i correspondingly in binary-indep
[10:21] <Kamion> s/rules/commands/
[10:21] <YokoZar> Do we even want the upstream changelog in any of the packages?
[10:22] <Kamion> the upstream changelog is often valuable
[10:22] <Kamion> it should be in the primary package, at least
[10:22] <YokoZar> I guess only in the wine package, yeah
[10:22] <Kamion> but there's little point duplicating it if they all depend on that
[10:22] <haggai> YokoZar: So you're saying, becuase the shlib versioning is broken at the moment, there should not be a libwine package?
[10:23] <Kamion> might consider symlinking the doc directories together, since all of the binary packages depend on wine
[10:23] <YokoZar> haggai: uh
[10:23] <Kamion> that can be fiddly to do correctly, though; in particular the transition will be awkward
[10:23] <YokoZar> Kamion: good point.  Wine's got it's own funky docmaking
[10:23] <haggai> YokoZar: I'm trying to work out why you want to not follow usual packaging conventions for libwine
[10:23] <YokoZar> On that note, how do I make it an official help file?
[10:23] <Kamion> since dpkg does not want (for good reasons) to replace a directory with a symlink on upgrade
[10:24] <YokoZar> haggai: Because the wine libraries depend on the wine binary
[10:24] <YokoZar> haggai: winelib compiled apps still need to be run "wine foo.exe.so"
[10:24] <YokoZar> We are making a wrapper script that lets you run them "./foo.exe" but that calls the wine binary
[10:24] <Kamion> you don't need a wrapper script for that surely?
[10:25] <syn-ack> YokoZar: I thought there was already one for that...
[10:25] <koke> hi, I have an auto(conf|make) question :)
[10:25] <YokoZar> syn-ack: It's kinda broken at the moment
[10:25] <syn-ack> YokoZar: aha.
[10:25] <YokoZar> Well in theory we could make a Windows app (say, Miranda IM) rather indistinguishible from a linux one, if you have the wine package installed
[10:25] <koke> I have some sources and I want debian/ subdir to be added when I do make dist
[10:26] <Kamion> update-binfmts with an appropriate detector to distinguish Windows executables from .NET PE
[10:26] <Kamion> all that was written years ago
[10:26] <YokoZar> At least as far as the normal user is concerned.
[10:27] <YokoZar> Kamion: I think at this point the wine binary does stuff that is more than just running the app and pointing it to winelib.  Mainly, it calls the wineserver
[10:27] <YokoZar> It's still important for winelib apps to be managed by wineserver, in case they try to message eachother or their children
[10:28] <Kamion> YokoZar: the point of binfmt-support is that it can cause the kernel to spot that it's a Windows binary and run it via 'wine foo.exe'
[10:28] <Kamion> so you don't need wrapper scripts
[10:29] <YokoZar> Kamion: oh I see you're talking about the wrapper script.  The thing is it's not a windows binary if it's compiled with winelib - it's a unix binary
[10:29] <dholbach> koke: why doesnt yout /debian/ reside in the tarball? why do you want to create it on  "make dist" ?
[10:29] <Kamion> oh, I see
[10:29] <Kamion> right, I understand now
[10:29] <YokoZar> Which is what's so cool about it - we could run it on PPC :)
[10:29] <haggai> YokoZar: so is it impossible to have a smooth transition?  Where e.g. libwine changes ABI and becomes libwine.so.2, but older apps linked against libwine.so.1 can continue to be run under the new wine?
[10:30] <YokoZar> Another issue that came up is on the amd64 arch - Wine needs 32bit libraries, but that's kinda difficult on a 64 bit install
[10:30] <haggai> (the new wine version, linked against libwine.so.2)
[10:30] <koke> dholbach: at this moment I have no tarball, just a svn repos
[10:30] <Kamion> mdz: you need getopt(1)? coincidentally, I happen to need it too; I'll add it
[10:30] <YokoZar> haggai: No everything needs to be coordinated by the same wineserver...no sense keeping old versions around anyway
[10:30] <Kamion> +       //kill(-1, SIGSTOP);
[10:30] <Kamion> mdz: eww, you evil C++ person
[10:31] <Kamion> although I guess // is C99 now, more's the pity
[10:31] <YokoZar> The good thing is Microsoft has the same approach - you can still run windows 3.1 apps on Windows XP
[10:31] <YokoZar> So if we get our DLLs working like the XP ones, no problem.
[10:32] <dholbach> koke: most upstream developers just add the debian directory to svn or cvs - it's okay that way :-)
[10:32] <YokoZar> The best way to make comments is to #define and #undef them ;)
[10:32] <YokoZar> #define comment here's some useful code
[10:32] <YokoZar> #undef comment
[10:32] <Treenaks> YokoZar: EEP
[10:33] <Kamion> #ifdef 0 is much saner
[10:33] <Kamion> sorry, #if 0
[10:33] <syn-ack> YokoZar: theyve only been doing that since 2k SP4  though, before that, it was somewhat of a PITA.
[10:33] <Kamion> or indeed #ifdef UNDEFINED, which is useful documentation
[10:33] <koke> dholbach: yes, it's added, but when I do make dist to generate the tarball I want debian/ to be included
[10:33] <haggai> YokoZar: but couldn't the new wineserver still run the old app? (Sorry I don't know the internals very well)
[10:33] <Kamion> dholbach: it's pretty annoying to have debian/ in the upstream tarball, usually
[10:34] <YokoZar> syn-ack: Well the old approach was to have multiple DLLs alongside eachother (eg: seperation between system and system32).  Wine can do a similar thing
[10:34] <Kamion> speaking as a package maintainer
[10:34] <dholbach> koke: add it to DIST_SUBDIRS and SUBDIRS 
[10:34] <syn-ack> YokoZar: right, You are defanantly coming a long way from what I used to try and get working...
[10:35] <dholbach> Kamion: why is that?
[10:35] <YokoZar> haggai: We're talking about winelib compiled apps only here (of which there currently aren't any...)  - the wine binary itself does the linking I think.
[10:35] <koke> dholbach: thanks, that whas what I was looking for :)
[10:35] <YokoZar> haggai: And there's no need to getting the wine binary to support old, broken versions of wine dll files
[10:35] <Kamion> dholbach: well, most packages are non-native, i.e. have a separate .diff.gz
[10:36] <Kamion> dholbach: firstly, it's conventional to have the whole debian/ directory in .diff.gz, for easier browsing of the packaging
[10:36] <Kamion> dholbach: (and in your style you end up with weird changelog diffs in the .diff.gz)
[10:36] <dholbach> dholbach: oh yes... i can see that
[10:36] <YokoZar> Here's some food for thought: Wine can be compiled and run in Windows.  Some of the Wine DLLs are so perfect that they can replace windows ones
[10:37] <Kamion> dholbach: secondly, you can't remove files in a .diff.gz, only add or change them; you can get yourself into some awkward situations with the debian/ directory in the upstream tarball
[10:37] <Kamion> dholbach: thirdly, the package maintainer is generally much better at knowing what needs to be in the debian/ directory than the upstream maintainer is
[10:37] <haggai> YokoZar: ok, so you assume mass breakage of all wine apps (assuming there are some :)  when you get a new wine version.  It goes against the Debian way but if that's what upstream are insisting on I suppose we can do it too
[10:37] <YokoZar> In theory if our DirectX dlls worked perfectly (which are really just a wrapper for OpenGL), they could be used on Windows and you'd run everything in OpenGL
[10:38] <Kamion> dholbach: fourthly, nowadays debian/ directories are used by a number of distributions rather than just Debian, so you can't assume that you're going to be making all the uploads of the package
[10:38] <YokoZar> haggai: Well, we might want to change it when we stabilize winelib, and start making winelib apps
[10:38] <haggai> YokoZar: that's what I'm thinking
[10:38] <Kamion> mdz: (why do you need getopt, incidentally?)
[10:38] <YokoZar> haggai: I'll ask around on the wine developer channel a bit.  But in the meantime finishing up my Miranda pacakge would be nice
[10:39] <YokoZar> It'd probably make a good news story too.  
[10:39] <haggai> YokoZar: at the moment I see good reasons from you why it _could_ be done, but no reason why it _must_ be done
[10:39] <dholbach> Kamion: you're right... i just saw it from my point of view, where i downloaded the tarball and had a fully functional package afterwards, but yes, i can seh your *count* 4 arguments :-)
[10:40] <Kamion> dholbach: I realise that the other approach has its appeal too, just pointing out the downsides. :)
[10:40] <YokoZar> Ok I'll be writing that email off to ubuntu-devel
[10:40] <haggai> YokoZar: I'm thinking, leaving it how it is shouldn't hurt.. and would make things a little more predictable in the future perhaps if things did stabilise
[10:40] <YokoZar> Thanks guys, this is really exciting
[10:40] <YokoZar> haggai: We could always turn the dummy package into a not-so-dummy package
[10:40] <haggai> YokoZar: ..and mean you were not quite so different from Debian
[10:41] <YokoZar> It just seems strange to have a libwine package that depends on wine and vice-versa
[10:41] <YokoZar> If I'm going to do that why not just have one package
[10:42] <haggai> because you go against the concept of libpackage<SOVER> and make it a lot different from Debian
[10:43] <YokoZar> I'm not entirely certain winelib apps even link against libwine at the moment
[10:43] <YokoZar> I know that sounds strange, but if they're called with wine it's really only the wine binary that's linked with libwine
[10:43] <YokoZar> And the wineserver binary
[10:44] <haggai> yes I understand.  I'm only thinking we don't need to restructure wrt Debian at this stage
[10:45] <haggai> if you were to take the packages over in Debian too I think the argument would be stronger to do the transition
[10:45] <Kamion> it's not really libwine that depends on wine, surely; it's the binaries built with libwine that depend on wine
[10:45] <Kamion> imagining for a second that they were Debian packages, you could handle that with shlibdeps
[10:45] <YokoZar> A libwine package that didn't have the wine binaries would be useless - it couldn't even run winelib compiled apps
[10:46] <haggai> YokoZar: yes, but it could do in the future..
[10:46] <YokoZar> But that would mean there's nothing in the wine package anymore...
[10:47] <haggai> binaries built against a particular shared lib go in there
[10:47] <YokoZar> Well, sorta
[10:47] <YokoZar> Like I said I don't see anything wrong with keeping the dummy package around in case we need it later, and sort of leaving things how they are
[10:48] <YokoZar> If things did change we could make wine depend on libwine again
[10:48] <haggai> I'm not so happy about that.  That's just not making a decision because we can't decide :)
[10:49] <YokoZar> It's like quantum physics, isn't it
[10:49] <YokoZar> information about wine's position is inversely proportional to information about its speed
[10:52] <haggai> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#SYMBOLVERSIONING might be interesting
[10:52] <haggai> as an example of how this could be solved in the futre without breaking other apps
[10:53] <YokoZar> Also I heard a rumor that Mr. Shuttleworth is planning on creating the first all-Linux moon colony using the Ubuntu developers as the legislative body: confirm/deny?
[10:53] <haggai> although I accept you're probably thinking that sort of complication will never be necessary anyway
[10:54] <YokoZar> Honestly I'm having trouble understanding it
[10:54] <Kamion> haha
[10:54] <Kamion> COMMUNITY MOON COUNCIL
[10:55] <YokoZar> Kamion: Why else do you think there's a screening process?
[10:56] <YokoZar> Oh yeah I've got more packaging questions
[10:56] <YokoZar> If I wanted to create an applications menu link to winecfg, what would be the way to do that?
[10:57] <YokoZar> I received conflicting information earlier about the .menu stuff and the fd.o stuff
[10:57] <YokoZar> The other thing was having Wine's user guide appear in the Gnome help menus - I'm a bit confused about how to do this, and if it should be done upstream or here
[10:58] <Kamion> registering it with scrollkeeper is probably the way to do that, although my information could be out of date
[10:59] <Kamion> generally upstream should provide an OMF file and the packaging should call dh_scrollkeeper
[10:59] <Kamion> (and build-depend on debhelper (>= 4.1.46), if that isn't implied already)
[11:00] <YokoZar> Wine uses .sgml files for its docs and then compiles them with docbook2man and stuff - is there one that will make OMF files?
[11:00] <Kamion> OMF isn't a document format, it's a little file that describes the documentation and says where it is
[11:01] <YokoZar> And what form is the documentation supposed to be in?
[11:01] <Kamion> docbook's fine
[11:01] <YokoZar> Do you have a link for that stuff?  I could put in a patch to winehq and soon all the distros would be doing it right.
[11:01] <Kamion> there are lots of examples in /usr/share/omf
[11:02] <YokoZar> Thank you
[11:03] <Kamion> http://scrollkeeper.sourceforge.net/documentation/writing_scrollkeeper_omf_files/index.html
[11:03] <Kamion> that should do it :)
[11:03] <YokoZar> Most excellent
[11:31] <dholbach> can anyone give me a hand with pbuilder?
[11:31] <dholbach> i sticked to the information on the wiki, updated it, but get these error messages "dpkg-source: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)"
[11:31] <dholbach> and end up with "checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables" :-/
[11:32] <Kamion> sounds like you're missing build-essential somehow
[11:32] <Kamion> the former warning is (IIRC) normal-in-pbuilder and harmless
[11:32] <dholbach> Kamion: should a package build-dep on build-essential?
[11:32] <Kamion> no
[11:32] <dholbach> that's what i thought
[11:32] <Kamion> by definition
[11:32] <Kamion> pbuilder should install it automatically though
[11:33] <Kamion> hmm, I wonder what the best way to let an application know about the installer's supported locales is
[11:35] <Kamion> suppose I should make localechooser spit out a tiny .deb or something
[11:41] <pitti_> carlos: here?
[11:41] <carlos> pitti_: hi
[11:42] <pitti_> carlos: just FYI, I'm currently implementing the stripped tarball extraction
[11:42] <pitti_> carlos: including overrides
[11:42] <pitti_> carlos: do you already work on that, too?
[11:43] <carlos> pitti_: to get your tarballs imported into Rosetta?
[11:43] <carlos> yes
[11:43] <pitti_> carlos: btw, the first new tarball (with domains.txt) is online
[11:43] <carlos> cool!
[11:43] <pitti_> carlos: the problem are all the other tarballs
[11:43] <pitti_> carlos: some of them don't even include a pot file, that was a bug
[11:43] <carlos> so, what should we do?
[11:44] <pitti_> carlos: I solved the ones with missing potfiles by adding an override
[11:44] <pitti_> carlos: well, I don't want to duplicate your work
[11:44] <carlos> pitti_: missing potfiles == with .po but not with .pot?
[11:44] <pitti_> carlos: so if you are already working on it, when do you think this is ready?
[11:44] <pitti_> carlos: yes
[11:44] <carlos> pitti_: How is that possible?
[11:45] <pitti_> carlos: the pot is in the source directory, but it did not get copied into the tarball
[11:45] <pitti_> carlos: obviously a bug
[11:45] <pitti_> carlos: shouldn't happen any more
[11:45] <pitti_> carlos: I rewrote that part in version 6
[11:45] <carlos> ooh, I thought there was no .pot file in the source tree
[11:46] <pitti_> ah, you need the pot for rosetta, too, right?
[11:46] <carlos> pitti_: I'm not changing any .tar.gz file, not sure where do you think we are doing the same task..
[11:46] <pitti_> carlos: so I'm afraid we have to rebuild these packages
[11:46] <carlos> pitti_: yes, I need it
[11:46] <pitti_> carlos: I don't change the tarballs, too. I try to impllement some heuristics to find out the domain of the broken ones
[11:47] <carlos> pitti_: what's the point behind it? is there any problem with the .mo lookup we talked yesterday?
[11:47] <carlos> it should work always...
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: and also do an implementation for multi-pot packages (but that's not ready yet=
[11:49] <pitti_> s/=/)/
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: yes
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: that it wasn't done 
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: for the already present tarballs
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: it did not work before I uploaded 6 yesterday :-)
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: we are already stripping for a few days now
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: so the tarballs in 20050126/ and most of 20050127/ are mostly useless
[11:49] <pitti_> carlos: s/mostly/many of them/
[11:50] <pitti_> carlos: I will assemble a list of the broken ones
[11:50] <carlos> pitti_: don't worry about them, if we have a list we could fix it later in Rosetta manually
[11:50] <pitti_> carlos: okay
[11:50] <carlos> and next build of that package will get the right name
[11:50] <pitti_> carlos: so given that you ignore the broken ones for now,
[11:51] <pitti_> carlos: when can I get the set of all imported po files from Rosetta?
[11:51] <pitti_> carlos: in particular I only need those which were uploaded recently
[11:51] <pitti_> carlos: i. e. for which tarballs exist in http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations/
[11:51] <carlos> pitti_: we are not (yet) importing into Rosetta
[11:51] <pitti_> carlos: and I need then sooooooon...
[11:51] <carlos> doing tests locally, after that test in our development server and finally in our production server
[11:52] <pitti_> carlos: anyway, if you say that you need more time for that, I will continue to implement my temporary system
[11:52] <carlos> pitti_: It will not be ready in production until next week
[11:53] <carlos> we cannot move new code into production as fast
[11:53] <carlos> or we could break the server
[11:53] <pitti_> okay
[11:56] <ogra> c u later
[11:57] <pitti_> carlos: okay, I have my preliminary own system ready
[11:58] <pitti_> carlos: now it's good enough to build new base langpacks
[11:58] <pitti_> carlos: wow, we already stripped 188 MB worth of po files
[11:58] <carlos> pitti_: so you get  the .po from the same tar.gz we import into Rosetta?
[11:58] <pitti_> carlos: yes
[11:58] <pitti_> carlos: from lamont's tarballs
[11:58] <carlos> pitti_: and how do you handle multi pot tarballs?
[11:59] <pitti_> carlos: I have a script which downloads all tarballs (only for the newest source upload)
[11:59] <pitti_> carlos: well, later I handle this with overrides
[11:59] <carlos> manual table?
[11:59] <pitti_> carlos: $ cat domain-overrides/glibc
[11:59] <pitti_> libc build-tree/glibc-2.3.2/po/
[12:00] <pitti_> carlos: -> that means: in source package glibc, use the domain "libc" for all po files in build-tree/glibc-2.3.2/po/
[12:00] <pitti_> carlos: right now my script supports only one line per override file
[12:00] <pitti_> carlos: and that's enough for now
[12:00] <carlos> pitti_: hmm, perhaps you could send me it so we go faster when fixing them by hand in Rosetta :-D
[12:00] <pitti_> carlos: because all multi-pot tarballs I encountered mostly contain only bogus pots in addition
[12:00] <carlos> bogus pots?
[12:00] <pitti_> carlos: sure, I send you the complete package
[12:01] <pitti_> carlos: yes, something like "header.pot" with only the information header
[12:01] <carlos> pitti_: well, multi pots and packages like pmount with only one .pot but wrong domain name
[12:01] <pitti_> carlos: I can handle pmount with an override
[12:01] <pitti_> carlos: I also override the tarballs with no pot file at all
[12:01] <pitti_> carlos: I send you the list, then you don't need to do this work again
[12:01] <carlos> thank you
[12:03] <pitti_> carlos: we have now 33 packages left for which we need to guess the domain from the pot
[12:03] <pitti_> carlos: that amount can be handled easily
[12:03] <pitti_> carlos: and eventually it will go down to 0 with new uploads
[12:03] <carlos> ok
[12:32] <seb128> mvo_: around ?
[12:32] <mvo_> seb128: yes
[12:33] <seb128> mvo_: got my mail ?
[12:33] <seb128> "update-notifier fr.po"
[12:33] <seb128> or something like that
[12:33] <mvo_> yes, thanks. commited already
[12:33] <seb128> BTW I was speaking about the non-translation issue
[12:34] <seb128> ie: it doesn't use the .mo file here
[12:34] <seb128> is the translation supposed to work ? 
[12:35] <seb128> s/was speaking/wanted to speak/ rather :)
[12:35] <mvo_> seb128: sorry, I don't have a mail from you but from a different frensh guy (Jean privat) and he send me a update-manager fr.po 
[12:35] <seb128> ok
[12:36] <mvo_> it looks like I don't have the mail (yet?). when did you send it?
[12:36] <seb128> before going to sleep yesterday
[12:36] <rubenv> lot's of downloads on the livecd torrents
[12:37] <rubenv> about 50gig seeded last night
[12:45] <thom> why do the language packs depend on mozilla locale packages when we're not shipping mozilla?
[12:49] <thom> pitti: ^
[12:50] <pitti_> thom: we support it
[12:50] <dholbach> thom: not to mention that mozilla-thunderbird doesnt work with the current  mozilla-thunderbird-locale-* -packages
[12:50] <thom> dholbach: thunderbird is irrelevant and will be fixed
[12:50] <thom> pitti: it's not seeded
[12:50] <dholbach> thom: ok
[12:50] <pitti> thom: it was in main a while ago...
[12:50] <pitti> thom: apparently it got demoted
[12:51] <pitti> thom: okay, I will fix the support packages then
[12:51] <thom> oh, gar
[12:51] <pitti> thom: hey, it's still in main
[12:51] <pitti> thom: mozilla-browser
[12:51] <Mithrandir> gcc-3.4 manages the feat to build-depend on _two_ versions of automake.
[12:52] <thom> yeah, psm drags -browser in
[12:52] <thom> hrm, wonder if we can remove mozilla-psm
[12:52] <pitti> thom: we discussed about removing mozilla from supported a while ago on u-devel
[12:52] <dholbach> bbl
[12:52] <Kamion> we demoted mozilla-psm to supported after discussion on ubuntu-users
[12:52] <Kamion> or -devel
[12:52] <Kamion> the conclusion seemed to be not to demote it to universe entirely
[12:52] <pitti> thom: but there were still many folks who preferred mozilla over ffox
[12:52] <thom> really?
[12:52] <thom> gar
[12:52] <thom> that *sucks*
[12:52] <thom> three browsers is just silly
[12:52] <thom> ok
[12:55] <thom> Kamion: can you confirm though that the locales packages for mozilla itself don't appear to be seeded
[12:58] <Kamion> give me an example of a language pack that depends on them?
[12:58] <Kamion> oh, no, don't
[12:58] <pitti> Kamion, thom: mozilla-locale-fr is seede
[12:58] <pitti> d
[12:59] <Kamion> pitti: why isn't it showing up in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-hoary-output/rdepends/ALL/ then?
[12:59] <pitti> OTOH, e. g. -es isn't
[12:59] <thom> oh, are they just seeded via the lang packs?
[12:59] <thom> 11:50 ~/work/hoary-seeds% grep mozilla-locale *
[12:59] <thom> 11:59 ~/work/hoary-seeds%
[12:59] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/seeds/hoary>$ grep mozilla-locale *
[12:59] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/seeds/hoary>$
[12:59] <pitti> thom, Kamion: for my sake I can remove the locale packages from mozilla
[01:00] <Kamion> s/for my sake/as far as I'm concerned/?
[01:00] <pitti> :-)
[01:00] <pitti> yes
[01:00] <Kamion> yeah, I think it's only the language packs that are pulling them in at the moment
[01:00] <pitti> that means, I don't think there is a particular value of adding them to the support packages
[01:00] <pitti> most people use ffox
[01:01] <pitti> and people can still install the locales manually if they really want to
[01:01] <Kamion> if it were recommended by the language packs, and nothing else was recommended that we didn't want to install by default if available, then you could recommend the mozilla locales and I could have base-config use aptitude --with-recommends ...
[01:01] <Kamion> not sure if that's sane though
[01:02] <pitti> hmm, I think that doesn't really help
[01:02] <pitti> either we want the locales, or we don't
[01:02] <pitti> well, the difference would just be that the locale packages would go to universe, right?
[01:03] <Kamion> ok, let's ditch 'em?
[01:03] <Kamion> yeah
[01:03] <thom> +1 for ditching
[01:03] <pitti> okay
[01:03] <pitti> thom: elmo will hug me; I will upload som 160 new packages now anyway :-)
[01:04] <pitti> thom: so if I also upload some more support packages, it won't make much of a difference any more :-)
[01:04] <thom> heh :-)
[01:18] <pitti> carlos: ping
[01:18] <carlos> pitti: pong
[01:19] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/strip2lparc.tar.gz
[01:19] <carlos> what's that?
[01:19] <pitti> carlos: this contains the tool to build an update.zip tarball (like one exported from Rosetta)
[01:19] <pitti> carlos: from people.u.c/~lamont/translations
[01:19] <thom> so if you're de-depending on mozilla-locale-* we can just sync them from unstable
[01:19] <pitti> carlos: and it contains also the overrides
[01:19] <carlos> oh, ok
[01:19] <carlos> perfect, thanks
[01:19] <pitti> thom: Just did
[01:20] <pitti> thom: I mean, removed the deps
[01:20] <pitti> carlos: maybe you can also recycle some code from dload-strippedtar
[01:21] <carlos> pitti: don't think so, I have already that code
[01:21] <pitti> okay
[01:22] <carlos> in fact I just imported your pmount tar.gz into my local computer
[01:22] <thom> pitti: right
[01:22] <thom> elmo: when you wake up, please sync mozilla-locale-* from unstable so they're installable again
[01:23] <pitti> "wake up"?
[01:23] <thom> well, he was still awake at 5, so i guess he's not around now
[01:24] <pitti> carlos: okay, all langpacks uploaded
[01:24] <pitti> carlos: so I now have a working "Rosetta emulation"
[01:24] <carlos> :-)
[01:24] <pitti> carlos: that gives you some more time to finish the import/export
[01:24] <carlos> pitti: well, I still will try to finish it as soon as possible
[01:24] <carlos> but thanks
[01:26] <pitti> hmmm,
[01:26] <pitti> wasabi: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[01:26] <pitti> wasabi: GPG error: http://security.ubuntu.com warty-security Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[01:26] <pitti> sorry wasabi, that wasn't intended directly to you
[01:27] <pitti> that line started with a "W:"
[01:27] <pitti> mvo_: do you know what's wrong here? ^ 
[01:27] <mvo_> pitti: about the key error? no
[01:27] <pitti> mvo_: does it work for you?
[01:29] <mvo_> I got a different error: "universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz MD5Sum mismatch"
[01:30] <pitti> somebody sabotages our ftp server!!!
[01:34] <rubenv> i'm getting weird stuff with universe too today
[01:34] <mvo_> pitti: try to remove the /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_hoary_Release and update again please
[01:35] <pitti> mvo_: I purged all files in it
[01:35] <pitti> mvo_: same error
[01:35] <pitti> hoary Release and warty-security Release
[01:36] <marcin_ant> hello - I would like to ask about website competition - are there any previews of projects that already submitted?
[01:37] <mvo_> pitti: I get MD5sum errors. there is something strange here :/
[01:38] <pitti> mvo_: I don't believe that there is something wrong with the archive, though
[01:38] <mjg59> What assumptions does the live CD make about the internal clock?
[01:38] <pitti> mvo_: however, if it helps, during the last days I could not authenticate package downloads from main as well
[01:38] <rubenv> pitti: when my apt cronjob runs
[01:38] <rubenv> universe disappears
[01:38] <smurfix> marcin_ant: ask mako -- he should be around later (or send email)
[01:39] <rubenv> but when i reload it with synaptic
[01:39] <rubenv> all is fine
[01:39] <rubenv> very strange :)
[01:39] <pitti> rubenv, mvo_ : oh yes, I used good ol' apt-get
[01:40] <mvo_> the last apt update was at the 19. jan and it didn't changed anything on the http or apt-secure side
[01:40] <marcin_ant> smurfix: ok - thanks
[01:41] <rubenv> the weirdness began today
[01:46] <mvo_> pitti: there is http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/Archive-Update-in-Progress-mirnyy.ubuntu.com
[01:46] <pitti> mvo_: hmm, updating isn't atomic then
[01:46] <pitti> ?
[01:47] <mvo_> apt-get update? 
[01:52] <dholbach> re
[01:57] <jbailey> Is the HardwareSupport/Machines/Laptops page intended to be Hoary or Warty?
[02:16] <jbailey> thom: I haven't tried it in about 3 years, but it used to require a bit of hacking to figure out where all the pieces needed to go.
[02:16] <jbailey> The .deb package was procken out of the box.
[02:18] <seb128> thom: you are on amd64 right ?
[02:19] <infinity> The current debs from debian-admin work fairly well.
[02:20] <infinity> OTOH, I'm still from the old skool "hack to make it go" camp, and it wasn't THAT bad.
[02:20] <thom> seb128: yeah
[02:20] <seb128> thom: do you get #5870 ?
[02:21] <thom> the only thing i ended up hacking was to add hoary as a valid dist
[02:21] <ogra> seb128: did you see the last comment there ?
[02:21] <thom> seb128: looking
[02:22] <seb128> ogra: that's not really useful ....
[02:22] <thom> evolution
[02:22] <thom> zsh: 24969 floating point exception  evolution
[02:22] <seb128> nice
[02:23] <seb128> do you have any idea on what could cause that ?
[02:23] <ogra> seb128: but a hint if you compare a sytem where it builds with the buildd ?
[02:23] <seb128> no
[02:23] <thom> i'd put money on you not using gcc-3.4 to build on amd64 personally
[02:23] <ogra> ah, ok...understood :)
[02:24] <seb128> ogra: I need details on the build environment from a working system
[02:24] <seb128> ogra: mine is i386 which is not really useful :p
[02:24] <seb128> thom: you mean that it should be built with gcc-3.
[02:24] <seb128> 3.4 ?
[02:24] <ogra> seb128: i havent done it myself yet...will try it after work and provide info :)
[02:25] <thom> seb128: yes
[02:25] <seb128> and the buildd use ?
[02:25] <dholbach> thom, seb128: wouldnt this include recompilation of 2497246 libraries?
[02:25] <thom> they'll use 3.3 by default
[02:25] <seb128> thom: so that's an issue for lamont or the package ?
[02:25] <thom> dholbach: not necessarily
[02:26] <seb128> dholbach: evolution-data-server and evolution only according to the comments
[02:26] <thom> seb128: packaging; that's just a hunch though, i can have a play after firefox finishes building here
[02:26] <thom> seb128: evo links against nspr, right?
[02:26] <seb128> thom: that would be grrrrrreat :)
[02:26] <seb128> correct
[02:26] <seb128> why ?
[02:26] <thom> yeah, i bet that's it
[02:26] <dholbach> thom: i had the issue with c++ code once and i had to recompile libraries too to get it working
[02:27] <ogra> thom: then i would spend you a beer next time we meet :)
[02:27] <thom> dholbach: nspr is already linked against 3.4 so it should just be evo
[02:27] <thom> ogra: ;D
[02:28] <thom> actually, i should leave it broken and force everyone to use mutt
[02:28] <dholbach> dholbach: alright... cool *hopes to get his evolution on amd64 fixed too* ;-))
[02:28] <ogra> hehe...
[02:28] <dholbach> thom: alright... cool *hopes to get his evolution on amd64 fixed too* ;-))
[02:28] <seb128> thom: does mutt connect to exchange servers ? :p
[02:29] <thom> seb128: if the exchange server has imap enabled, sure :P
[02:29] <Kamion> wow, it actually started up
[02:29] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/kickstart.png
[02:29] <Kamion> although lots of the values are wrong, I know
[02:29] <thom> Kamion: cool
[02:30] <ogra> dholbach: you are talking toyourself very often.... thought about seeing a pychiatrist ;-P
[02:30] <dholbach> ogra: i'll make an appointment :-)
[02:31] <ogra> dholbach: it has something sciziphrenic  ;-)
[02:32] <ogra> Kamion: so now make it match the HIG ;-P
[02:32] <Kamion> ogra: I'll be happy if it works
[02:32] <ogra> :)
[02:32] <lamont> hrm.. router is machine checking...
[02:32] <lamont> may be time to retire it.
[02:37] <Kamion> OTOH I'm not terribly convinced I want to support it just yet
[02:37] <lamont> Kamion: it=??
[02:37] <Kamion> lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/kickstart.png
[02:38] <lamont> oh. that.
[02:40] <Kamion> this is porting-by-hacksaw
[02:44] <thom> heh
[02:45] <jdub> dear mjg59, i love fully working suspend! love, jdub.
[02:46] <mjg59> dear jdub, you may thank me with nubile young ladies, love, matthew
[02:46] <jdub> dear mjg59, will you be coming to lca/udu? love, jdub.
[02:46] <mjg59> If Mark will pay for my flights, most certainly
[02:47] <jdub> heh
[02:47] <mjg59> I should register for lca, really
[02:48] <thom> AAARGH, cdbSHIT
[02:49] <seb128> what ?
[02:49] <seb128> what's wrong with cdbs again ? :p
[02:49] <thom> eds uses it, that's what:P
[02:49] <seb128> in a weird way, be careful
[02:50] <jbailey> seb128: Hmm>?
[02:50] <seb128> there is a control.in but you need to run debian/rules update-control to update debian/control
[02:50] <seb128> that's not done to the build for this one
[02:50] <thom> oh dear lord
[02:50] <seb128> :)
[02:50] <maswan> dear ftpmasters, @ERROR: max connections (25) reached - try again later
[02:50] <maswan> (tonight)
[02:50] <thom> ok, how do i set CC in debian/rules in such a way that it'll make it configure?
[02:51] <jbailey> thom: Setting CC is usually enough, just do it after the cdbs bits.
[02:51] <seb128> ifeq ($(DEB_BUILD_ARCH),amd64)
[02:51] <seb128> export CC=gcc-3.4
[02:51] <seb128> export CXX=g++-3.4
[02:51] <seb128> OPTFLAGS=-O
[02:51] <seb128> endif
[02:51] <seb128> 
[02:51] <seb128> if you want to do like epiphany
[02:51] <thom> ok
[02:51] <thom> wasn't sure if it needed special magic
[02:51] <thom> thanks
[02:52] <seb128> np :)
[02:53] <jbailey> Added to my todo list:  Make Thom a Believer. ;)
[02:54] <thom> jbailey: how much are you willing to pay? :-)
[02:55] <jbailey> thom: Perhaps I can arrange the ship you mjg59's nubile young ladies once he's...  No.  I should probably come up with something better. =)
[02:59] <marcin_ant> mako: ping
[03:01] <thom> yay local mirrors: Fetched 18.1MB in 1s (10.0MB/s)
[03:02] <Treenaks> hm.. something can't count :)
[03:05] <thom> seb128: e-d-s building, evo queued
[03:06] <seb128> rock
[03:06] <smurfix> Treenaks: or round
[03:07] <Treenaks> smurfix: it must be a P1 using FDIV then ;)
[03:19] <lamont> if [ "$have_pcmcia" -eq 1 ]  && ! grep -q pcmcia-cs /var/lib/apt-install/queue 2>/dev/null; then
[03:19] <mooch> anyone knows what ubuntu uses for autobuilding packages? sbuild with wanna-build?
[03:19] <lamont> mooch: pretty much
[03:19] <lamont> at least for warty/hoary
[03:19] <lamont> will radically change shortly after hoary, I expect
[03:20] <mooch> lamont: what will you guys use?
[03:20] <lamont> mooch: launchpad infrastructure will do the builds
[03:20] <mooch> is/will be it available somewhere as source code? 
[03:21] <lamont> mooch: it's not even written yet
[03:21] <mooch> right, if it is launchpad i guess it will not be...
[03:21] <mooch> ;(
[03:21] <lamont> nor will it be very generally usable
[03:26] <thom> seb128: gcc-3.4 doesn't help
[03:26] <thom> seb128: guess this is a Mithrandir job
[03:26] <seb128> urg :/
[03:33] <Mithrandir> thom: hm?  what do you want me to do?
[03:33] <thom> Mithrandir: make evo work on amd64 ;-)
[03:33] <thom> Mithrandir: seb has the details
[03:33] <Mithrandir> seb128: have you broken evo again?
[03:34] <seb128> Mithrandir: try to run evo on amd64
[03:34] <seb128> #5870
[03:35] <seb128> a part of #3619 too
[03:35] <seb128> SIGFPE on start for amd64 users
[03:36] <Mithrandir> checking for mutexes... UNIX/fcntl
[03:36] <Mithrandir> configure: WARNING: NO FAST MUTEXES FOUND FOR THIS COMPILER/ARCHITECTURE.
[03:37] <Mithrandir> from http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/d/db4.1/4.1.25-17/db4.1_4.1.25-17_20040817-2250-amd64-successful
[03:37] <seb128> arg
[03:37] <Mithrandir> didn't I fix this?
[03:37] <Mithrandir> #281059 with patch
[03:38] <T-Bone> lamont: "feed the horses"? You're living in a ranch? :)
[03:39] <lamont> T-Bone: only 3 horses - 2 of them are boarders
[03:40] <T-Bone> sweet ;)
[03:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: could you fix it ? :)
[03:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: if archive.ubuntu.com wasn't so DOG SLOW, I could.
[03:42] <Mithrandir> sorry, I've been hitting my head against gcc, binutils and glibc for a few days.
[03:43] <jdub> haggai: around?
[03:44] <haggai> jdub: yo
[03:44] <haggai> jdub: thanks for making the lists
[03:48] <marcin_ant> #ubuntu
[03:54] <jdub> wow, having entertaining problems with the archive
[03:54] <pitti> jdub: you too?
[03:55] <pitti> jdub: I get lots of "gpg signature failed" errors since recently
[03:56] <zul> haggai, whats the wiki page for adding yourself to the motu canidates page?
[03:56] <ogra> zul: MaintainerCandidates is the place where you add yourself
[03:56] <zul> thanks...i knew it was something like that
[03:56] <ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MaintainerCandidates
[03:57] <Mithrandir> seb128?
[03:58] <zul> ogra, done
[03:58] <ogra> hi Chuck ;)
[03:58] <Kamion> lamont: what's wrong with the pcmcia thing?
[03:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: this is crackful:
[03:58] <ogra> Kamion: its missing on the amd64 livecd image
[03:58] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ..ution-data-server-1.1.4.1 > ldd /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-data-server-1.2| grep libdb
[03:58] <Mithrandir>         libdb-4.2.so => /usr/lib/libdb-4.2.so (0x0000002a96886000)
[03:58] <Mithrandir>         libdb-4.1.so => /usr/lib/libdb-4.1.so (0x0000002a997bc000)
[03:58] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ..ution-data-server-1.1.4.1 > ldd /usr/bin/evolution |grep libdb
[03:59] <Mithrandir>         libdb-4.1.so => /usr/lib/libdb-4.1.so (0x0000002a9c7c2000)
[03:59] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ..ution-data-server-1.1.4.1 >
[03:59] <Mithrandir> seb128: mixing db4.1 and 4.2 is a good way to make bad stuff happen
[03:59] <Kamion> ogra: hmm? didn't know about that
[03:59] <Kamion> pcmcia-cs is only in Ship, not Desktop
[04:00] <Kamion> so certainly something would need to be done to install it ...
[04:00] <jdub> 99% [2 Packages bzip2 1798144] 
[04:00] <jdub> bzip2: Data integrity error when decompressing.
[04:00] <ogra> Kamion: #5730
[04:00] <Kamion> mdz: how about having casper run the apt-install queue, like base-installer does?
[04:00] <Kamion> oh, that
[04:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: outch
[04:01] <[Clint] > Mithrandir: using db4.1 is a good way to make bad stuff happen
[04:01] <Mithrandir> Clint: mixing libdb4.1 and 4.2 is an even better way.
[04:02] <Mithrandir> Clint: is there something about the last patch from Kurt (in 281059) you don't like?
[04:03] <mvo_> pitti: hals seems to be going mad :(
[04:03] <mvo_> pitti: s/hals/hald/
[04:03] <pitti> mvo_: does your computer use 100% CPU now?
[04:03] <mvo_> pitti: yes
[04:03] <mvo_> and the mouse stops for 1s 
[04:03] <mvo_> and then goes again
[04:03] <pitti> mvo_: please check with top whether it's really hald
[04:04] <pitti> mvo_: I had this bug too
[04:04] <pitti> mvo_: but it has nothing to do with 0.4.7 in particular
[04:04] <pitti> mvo_: it only happens on hal upgrades and also happens with 0.4.4 
[04:04] <pitti> mvo_: please reboot, that will fix it
[04:04] <mvo_> it's hald (also it's not shown as 100% cpu)
[04:04] <pitti> mvo_: hald itself was quiet for me
[04:04] <mvo_> no other way than reboot :( ?
[04:05] <pitti> mvo_: the kernel suddently went to 100%
[04:05] <mvo_> I don't want to reboot :/
[04:05] <pitti> mvo_: I believe that is a kernel bug
[04:05] <pitti> mvo_: you can check
[04:05] <pitti> mvo_: sudo killall -9 hald
[04:05] <pitti> mvo_: I bet this won't fix it
[04:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: you want to handle it further?
[04:05] <pitti> mvo_: I think the kernel goes mad
[04:05] <mvo_> pitti: killall doesn't help
[04:06] <pitti> mvo_: right
[04:06] <pitti> mvo_: becuase it's no particular process which causes this high load
[04:06] <pitti> mvo_: if you can find out the culprit, I'd be incredibly grateful
[04:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: pretty busy atm with my ~350 bugs, but I'll have a look
[04:06] <pitti> mvo_: I have to leave soon, so I cannot look after this any more today
[04:06] <elmo> thom: uh, really "-*"?   and that'll surely violate UVF, so can you do the normal drill for that?
[04:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: do you have an idea on how to fix it ? 
[04:07] <mvo_> pitti: hm, ok
[04:07] <mvo_> pitti: I'll reboot then
[04:07] <thom> elmo: sure
[04:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: whack db4.1 so it goes away from the whole chain
[04:07] <mvo_> pitti: thanks
[04:07] <pitti> mvo_: thanks for breaking your system? :-)
[04:07] <maswan> hey, it seems like the torrent tracker for the livecd doesn't work. intentional? working on it? want to "borrow" one from around here?
[04:07] <seb128> Mithrandir: right
[04:07] <mvo_> pitti: thanks for promising me to have a look :)
[04:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: shout if you need a hand, then?
[04:08] <thom> maswan: hrm, it was certainly working earlier
[04:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: any hand would be appreciated, I'm sort of bug flooded atm
[04:08] <Treenaks> jdub: did I read correctly? beagle in universe over the weekend?
[04:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'll see if I can find the time, then.  Currently neck deep in gcc shit
[04:09] <seb128> Mithrandir: there is #2623 already about eds and this in fact :/
[04:09] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[04:10] <maswan> thom: can you check if it is a local problem then? I'm just getting timeouts..
[04:10] <thom> looking
[04:10] <jdub> Treenaks: yes
[04:11] <Treenaks> jdub: Coolness!
[04:11] <Treenaks> jdub: where do I send the beer & women?
[04:15] <jdub> quick:~# ifup sit0
[04:15] <jdub> ioctl: No buffer space available
[04:15] <jdub> Failed to bring up sit0.
[04:15] <jdub> ^ hrm, anyone familiar with this kind of error?
[04:16] <Mithrandir> jdub: /dev/shm mounted?
[04:17] <jdub> yeah
[04:17] <jdub> tmpfs        tmpfs     31M     0   31M   0% /dev/shm
[04:20] <elmo> strace interesting?
[04:20] <maswan> thom: any luck?
[04:21] <jdub> oh
[04:21] <jdub> man
[04:21] <crimsun> jdub: you're not adding one you haven't deleted?
[04:21] <thom> maswan: not yet, still playing
[04:21] <jdub> crimsun: nup
[04:21] <crimsun> jdub: (a tunnel device, that is)
[04:22] <jdub> crimsun: as in sit0? no
[04:24] <maswan> we've recently decided that ubuntu is neat for work, so I can (temporarily) throw some fun resources at mirroring/torrent tracking and so if needed. :)
[04:24] <jdub> maswan: rad!
[04:26] <maswan> So in that regard, I'm going to head off a while and go work on an install server here instead of just sitting around, ircing. I'll be back in a while. :)
[04:26] <thom> ok, thanks for the offer. may well take you up on it if this doesn't come back :-)
[04:27] <dholbach> re
[04:31] <Mithrandir> maswan: is ftp.acc.umu.se ill or something?  I'm only getting about 2MB/sec from it
[04:33] <kent> hmm, Synaptic is complaining that Hoary universe Packages.gz has wrong md controlsum :( Is that something to mind?
[04:41] <jdub> hrm
[04:41] <jdub> my qube is seriously b0rk
[04:44] <maswan> Mithrandir: Hmm.. I'll check. Do you remember what frontend you got that from?
[04:44] <Mithrandir> maswan: sorry, fallen out of scrollback.
[04:45] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok. I'll look aroudn a bit. It might just be that that particular frontend had a bit much too do just then.
[04:46] <Mithrandir> maswan: yeah, guess so
[04:46] <maswan> the bandwidth graph doesn't seem to indicate any large-scale failure
[04:47] <maswan> (small hickup at 14:00 or so, but not in the last couple of hours)
[04:47] <Mithrandir> could just have been my local link being a bit busy.
[04:53] <maswan> thom: any luck? I can trivially put them up on the cdimage.d.o tracker and give that some exercise, if you want to repoint dns somewhere.
[04:54] <Treenaks> meh.. md5sum mismatch..
[04:54] <Treenaks> (yes, I know it's known)
[04:54] <lamont> Kamion: testing a change to pcmcia-cs now that will only start it if pcmcia is present on the machine.
[04:54] <lamont> then we can just seed the beast
[04:58] <lamont> draw blood even.
[04:59] <zul> usually yes lamont :)
[04:59] <Kamion> hm, my language pack code in base-config was not quite right
[05:00] <Kamion> are we going to put some language packs in Ship at any point?
[05:00] <Kamion> because until we do it's like a fairly serious l10n regression for non-networked folks
[05:01] <lamont> Kamion: did we stop building livecd's daily?
[05:01] <Kamion> oh no, the language pack code's ok, I just screwed up the test. cool
[05:01] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, mdz asked for that before the announcement, I'll turn them back on
[05:01] <Kamion> lamont: want a build now?
[05:02] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - just got pinged for an ia64 image
[05:02] <Kamion> lamont: building
[05:03] <daniels> UNGH
[05:03] <daniels> it would be awesome if we could remove people's ability to file bugs on certain packages for given amount of time
[05:05] <lamont> daniels: because they're idiots, or because you're trying to fix the bug you introduced? :-)
[05:05] <jdub> daniels: "this bug is queued for fixing, expect to see it soon"
[05:05] <daniels> jdub: yes, but typing that like fifty times gets repetitive
[05:06] <daniels> the ability to close multiple bugs as duplicates of one with a single click would be PHAT
[05:06] <daniels> (well, n+1 clicks, where n is the number of bugs you want to mark as duplicates)
[05:06] <Kamion> can't you do that with the "change multiple bugs at once" interface?
[05:07] <daniels> the what interface?
[05:08] <Kamion> daniels: "Change Several Bugs at Once" at the bottom of any bug list
[05:08] <Kamion> hm, unfortunately "duplicate" is not one of the several things you can do using that interface
[05:08] <lamont> Kamion: very limited abilities in change several at once - can't close them, dunno about dup
[05:09] <Kamion> lamont: you can close them
[05:09] <daniels> Kamion: shiny
[05:09] <zul> maswan: duh :)
[05:11] <lamont> Kamion: kewl.  ISTR you couldn't before
[05:14] <lamont> Kamion: about to upload a new pcmcia-cs that no-ops if pcmcia not present
[05:14] <lamont>  * PCMCIA not present
[05:15] <Kamion> cool
[05:15] <lamont> (it just duplicates the have_pcmcia logic from ddetect)
[05:16] <lamont> then the next question is, should ubuntu-desktop Depend: it, or should the livecd just install it and be done with?
[05:17] <Kamion> should probably go in u-d
[05:17] <Kamion> er, ubuntu-base even
[05:17] <Kamion> it's not obviously a desktop thing; in particular you may well need it after the first reboot before u-d is installed (in the install CD scenario)
[05:17] <lamont> Installed-Size: 1080
[05:18] <lamont> mind you, u-b sounds good to me
[05:18] <lamont> and not just because it means I don't have to change the livecd scripts. :-)
[05:18] <Kamion> alternatively it can stay in Ship for size reasons, and go in Live as well
[05:18] <Kamion> but I think mdz wants it installed always
[05:18] <lamont> yeah, I think so
[05:18] <lamont> we're definitely having a live-seed then?
[05:19] <lamont> in which case, could I pretty please have ubuntu-meta generate an ubuntu-live metapackage?
[05:21] <Kamion> I don't know if we're definitely having one ...
[05:22] <Kamion> oh, live CDs built, including ia64
[05:22] <Kamion> biggest of the lot, at 613MB
[05:23] <lamont> ia64 is?
[05:23] <Kamion> er, sorry, 577MB. Looking at the install CD by mistake.
[05:23] <Kamion> Yeah.
[05:23] <lamont> shall we draw the mark at 600MB for when you scream about ia64/ppc size growth?
[05:23] <thom> maswan: torrents should be back up now
[05:24] <lamont> BUGS AND LIMITATIONS
[05:24] <lamont>        The c, s,  and u attributes are not honored by the ext2 and ext3 filesystems  as  implemented  in
[05:24] <lamont>        the  current mainline Linux kernels.    These attributes may be implemented in future versions ext2 and
[05:24] <lamont>        ext3.
[05:25] <daniels> lamont: utf-8, man!
[05:25] <maswan> thom: thanks
[05:25] <daniels> unless that was utf-8, and screen is just shit
[05:25] <lamont> daniels: ??
[05:25] <lamont> echo $LANG
[05:25] <lamont> en_US.UTF-8
[05:25] <lamont> I'm innocent, dammit./
[05:25] <jdub> calc: around?
[05:26] <maswan> thom: I'll help along a bit with the bandwidth then. Lets see how high I can push this machine. ] ;)
[05:26] <thom> cool :-)
[05:27] <thom> heh, incoming on the amd64 torrent just jumped to 1.5MB/s
[05:28] <Mithrandir> hm, I should possible join in the race, then?
[05:28] <maswan> thom: 1.6M/s in, 800k/s out. :)
[05:29] <thom>    Totals:   1.0 MB/s 950.2 KB/s 
[05:29] <Kamion> daniels: looked like UTF-8 to me
[05:29] <maswan> Totals:  2.7MiB/s  1.9MiB/s
[05:29] <thom> fortunately, i don't have to pay bandwidth for that box
[05:29] <Kamion> daniels: and I'm using irssi in screen ...
[05:29] <maswan> (that's for all three)
[05:29] <Kamion> lamont: 600MB> ok, assuming you mean ia64/amd64
[05:29] <lamont> Kamion: doh
[05:29] <lamont> yes
[05:30] <thom> (that box is totally weedy, too - 100mbit network card and a single p IV)
[05:30] <lamont> basically, we'll want to let them grow for a while, and then pay the price of resetting them.  And then again about a week before preview, or so.
[05:30] <maswan> and ther the amd64 is done
[05:31] <maswan> thom: ah, dual opteron with 4 gigs of ram and gigE here
[05:31] <Mithrandir> I'm only getting like 1MB/sec down :/
[05:31] <thom> yeah, a bit outclassed
[05:31] <maswan> it isn't really taxing the machine though
[05:31] <lamont> 24816264   4%    9.44kB/s   15:22:04
[05:31] <RV> torrent seeding?
[05:32] <rubenv> time for an uncap :] 
[05:32] <maswan> Totals:  2.1MiB/s  3.6MiB/s
[05:32] <thom> hrm, that box just hit 0.71 load, which is the highest i've seen out of it - go freebsd ;-)
[05:33] <rubenv> 19gb on ppc, 13gb on amd64 & 25 gb on i386 sent out already since this morning
[05:33] <Kamion> mdz: did you have a particular reason for dropping all my localechooser branding changes and uploading a new version based on Debian?
[05:34] <Kamion> oh, and not updating .po files following changes either
[05:35] <maswan> thom: Oh, regarding that, is cdimage.u.c still slow? I could put up a mirror of just the livecds if that would help offloading it.
[05:36] <Mithrandir> maswan: the problem with cdimage.u.c being slow is that the regular archive goes slow as well.
[05:36] <rubenv> torrent stats: outgoing: 13421kbits/sec :)
[05:36] <Mithrandir> I'm at outgoing 1.7MB/sec now.
[05:37] <maswan> Mithrandir: Yeah, so if there would be need for offloading just the livecds with http redirects or so, I could put a mirror up at ftp.acc.umu.se. That one should be able to handle a couple of hundred megabit/s more.
[05:37] <Mithrandir> plus another MB/sec from my workstation.
[05:37] <maswan> Totals:  1.5MiB/s  4.2MiB/s
[05:37] <maswan> just the ppc one I haven't gotten downloaded yet
[05:37] <Mithrandir> I'm guessing I'll jump a bit when I have the complete thing.
[05:37] <Mithrandir> and my gcc compile finishes :)
[05:38] <Mithrandir> the ppc one is a lot faster than i386 here, actually.
[05:38] <Mithrandir> amd64 being double the speed of ppc being double the speed of i386
[05:39] <rubenv> pretty weird
[05:39] <maswan> Mithrandir: all up to which seeds you happen to connect to
[05:39] <rubenv> if you consider the number of seeds on amd64
[05:39] <Mithrandir> maswan: it's almost the same on my desktop as my other box.
[05:39] <maswan> Mithrandir: my i386 was faster than ppc
[05:40] <elmo> I've redistributed the cdimage and archive loads, but the problem is because of lack of ftp and rsync virtual hosting, a bunch of people are grabbing the ISOs from archive.u.c
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: gah, no
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: I must have downloaded the wrong source
[05:42] <mdz> Kamion: I wanted getopt to implement a dpkg-reconfigure wrapper for casper
[05:42] <Kamion> mdz: ah. well, you should have it now; want to fix localechooser before triggering a d-i rebuild, though, because the installer is probably fucked at the moment
[05:43] <mdz> Kamion: have you fixed it already, or shall I?
[05:43] <Kamion> I was making a localechooser change anyway, so I'll do it
[05:43] <maswan> Seems to be holding steady at about 4M/s total
[05:44] <Mithrandir> maswan: have you tuned it in any way?
[05:45] <Mithrandir> I'm only doing about 2MB/sec
[05:45] <Kamion> hm, although the change I was going to make requires NEW; I'll leave that part 'til later
[05:46] <maswan> Mithrandir: nope, just btlaunchmanycurses.py . in a directory with the three .torrents
[05:51] <trulux> where's pitti?
[05:51] <trulux> I have good news for him
[05:51] <trulux> we've solved the libssp bugs and now we have that part done
[05:52] <trulux> just make the name-changed packages and we will have done the ssp implementation for Ubuntu
[05:52] <tseng> trulux: erm
[05:52] <maswan> Mithrandir: did it help?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> maswan: not really, no.  Possibly due to me turning it a bit too high causing it to not use the disk cache too well
[05:53] <Mithrandir> I'm going to let it sit around for a little and see what it ends up at
[05:53] <maswan> Mithrandir: ah. Hmm.. I could try here. I fit all 3 isos in ram. :)
[05:53] <Mithrandir> give it a shot.
[05:54] <Mithrandir> I've only got 1G on this box.
[05:55] <maswan> Oh, well. Going home now. I'll chekc in on that again when I get home.
[05:56] <mdz> oh, we were on slashdot last night, explains the live CD spike
[05:57] <mdz> "What precautions do these LiveCDs take to prevent damage from occuring to the installed base system? I trust Knoppix because I've used it a few times, but Ubuntu has a funny name, so I'm a little more wary of it."
[05:57] <maswan> oh, btw, let me know how much a cdimage mirror takes (now and for the future) and we'll add it to the list of stuff we want to mirror here at ftp.acc
[05:58] <Kamion> maswan: what, all of cdimage, not just releases.ubuntu.com?
[05:58] <Kamion> (cdimage == stuff like daily builds too)
[05:58] <maswan> Kamion: That was what I was thinking about, yes.
[05:59] <lamont> mdz: new pcmcia-cs uploaded
[05:59] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full$ du -s
[05:59] <Kamion> 75773068        .
[05:59] <Kamion> I should probably archive the old Sounder CDs
[05:59] <maswan> For stuff like the livecd, hoary installs and so on.
[05:59] <mdz> lamont: cool, I'll test on my laptop
[05:59] <Kamion> it's nice to have them around for reference, but don't need them on cdimage.u.c
[06:00] <maswan> Kamion: Expecting the size to more than double anytime soon?
[06:01] <Kamion> maswan: you can expect a few gig of release images every six months
[06:01] <Kamion> (I'm just zapping sounder-test now, down to 65GB)
[06:02] <jdub> jbailey: can you tell cdbs to use autogen.sh instead of configure?
[06:02] <maswan> Kamion: Ok. Thanks. We'll think about it. It's mostly an issue of disk space, something that is fairly hard to get donations for (unlike old servers etc).
[06:02] <Kamion> maswan: hm, in fact a couple of GB every couple of weeks for beta-test images; but we'll archive those a while after release
[06:02] <Kamion> I shouldn't expect more than double all that soon, no
[06:03] <seb128> jdub: class/autotools.mk ?
[06:05] <jdub> ooh, after upgrading udev, it has turned into a fork bomb!
[06:05] <Mithrandir> jdub: .. useful
[06:05] <jdub> seb128: DEB_CONFIGURE_INVOKE it seems to be - thanks!
[06:06] <seb128> jdub: you too ? I just had to reboot
[06:06] <seb128> load ~9 due to udev, no way to stop it
[06:06] <seb128> and pitti is hidding :p
[06:06] <mdz> thom: so what happened with the tracker overnight, and can we do something about it for next time?
[06:07] <jdub> seb128: while true; do sudo killall udevd; done
[06:07] <jdub> ;-)
[06:07] <thom> mdz: it got slashdotted
[06:07] <Kamion> mdz: if you've been having locale problems on the live CD, this might be why, actually; the casper/pre.d symlink change was one of the things dropped
[06:08] <mdz> thom: which resource was starved?
[06:08] <thom> mdz: it's now on a seperate box from cdimage/archive so should be less problematic
[06:08] <mdz> Kamion: that explains some test results
[06:08] <thom> mdz: /everything/ - auckland is at a load of ~800 current
[06:08] <Mithrandir> thom: 800?  whoa.
[06:09] <mdz> ah, so it wasn't the tracker that killed it
[06:09] <thom> no, the tracker was still up, just toally unresponive
[06:10] <jdub> seb128: DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT, rather
[06:10] <Kamion> mdz: 0.04.0ubuntu2 uploaded
[06:10] <mdz> I was wondering how the tracker itself could have been overloaded
[06:10] <mdz> I didn't realize it shared a machine with archive/cdimage
[06:10] <Kamion> mdz: once it's built, could you trigger a new d-i build? I'd like tomorrow's CDs to have that fixed
[06:10] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[06:10] <mdz> me too
[06:11] <Kamion> unfortunately I have to go to London in five minutes so I can't wait for it myself
[06:11] <seb128> jdub: what are you trying to do ?
[06:11] <mdz> Kamion: regarding getopt/reconfigure stuff, do you want to share the wrapper between casper and your questions-before-reboot stuff?
[06:12] <Kamion> mdz: I only have one actual use for dpkg-reconfigure per se
[06:12] <Kamion> mdz: but that would probably be sane, yes; put it in cdebconf-udeb?
[06:12] <Kamion> mdz: or in debian-installer-utils if it doesn't need to link against libdebconf
[06:12] <mdz> hmm, maybe we should talk about it later and figure out if there's actually a common need
[06:13] <Kamion> di-utils binary package, probably
[06:13] <mdz> it was going to be a shell script
[06:13] <jdub> seb128: just using autogen.sh instead of configure, works now
[06:13] <mdz> just to centralize all the environment variable hacks and such
[06:13] <seb128> jdub: ok
[06:13] <Kamion> mdz: ok, di-utils it would be then; shall we talk about it over the weekend when I get back?
[06:13] <mdz> Kamion: yeah
[06:13] <mdz> I'll just cut and waste for now
[06:14] <Kamion> ok
[06:21] <mdz> lamont: pcmcia-cs uploaded just recently?  I don't see it yet
[06:27] <calc> jdub: hi
[06:27] <Hwolf> I just had a major crash in hoary after using apt-get. Can anyone help me narrow it down?
[06:28] <Hwolf> I started getting 'input/output errors' and after a minute or so x quitted, and had to hard-reset
[06:28] <lamont> mdz: installed 20 minutes ago
[06:28] <jdub> calc: you keen for a runtime-cpu-detecting libtheora patch?
[06:29] <lamont> mdz: so blame slashdot
[06:30] <dilinger> Hwolf: check for kernel errors in /var/log
[06:31] <dilinger> if there's anything useful, file a bug
[06:31] <Hwolf> dilinger, i've never looked at /var/log in my life. Which file?
[06:32] <Hwolf> *grumble* crash messed up my firefox profile. Exit bookmarks
[06:32] <thom> it was probably the new udev brokeness that jdub and seb both saw not so long ago
[06:33] <Hwolf> Will you guys flame me if I ask how to get my firefox profile back?
[06:33] <calc> jdub: sounds ok to me, will need to forward it upstream to make sure it doesn't break anything :)
[06:33] <jdub> calc: this is happening on an upstream branch
[06:34] <Hwolf> dpkg: failed to open `/var/lib/dpkg/status' for writing status information: Input/output error
[06:34] <Hwolf> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
[06:34] <Hwolf> E: Sub-process returned an error code
[06:34] <Hwolf> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
[06:34] <jdub> so, who's on amd64 and ppc who could try these out for me?
[06:34] <Hwolf> That's doing an apt-get upgrade
[06:34] <calc> jdub: ah ok sounds good then
[06:35] <mvo_> Hwolf: do you have the dir /var/lib/update-notifier/ ?
[06:35] <Hwolf> hidde@system:~ $ ls /var/lib/update-notifier
[06:35] <Hwolf> bash: /bin/ls: Input/output error
[06:35] <Hwolf> Need a hard reboot to fix this.
[06:35] <Hwolf> I cannot open any program or run any command line right now
[06:36] <Hwolf> I'll be right back.
[06:39] <dholbach> i'm off guys
[06:39] <mdz> calc: also, we should et the new libogg (for amd64) in Ubuntu before feature freeze; if you don't think you will have time to update it in Debian, one of us can do it for Ubuntu (and upload to Debian as well if you want that)
[06:39] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[06:39] <mdz> s/et /get /
[06:39] <trulux> tseng: :)
[06:40] <Hwolf> mvo_, back
[06:40] <calc> mdz: how long until feature freeze?
[06:41] <mdz> calc: ~1 week
[06:41] <calc> yea i will probably need someone to do it, i am going to be pretty busy this week (i think), just got a job today :)
[06:43] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/ <- libtheora, please build+test on amd64 and ppc (yes, it needs autofoo related build deps)
[06:43] <T-Bone> mdz: is ia64 still in line for hoary or is it too late already?
[06:44] <tseng> jdub: ping me when you have a few minutes for tomboy?
[06:44] <jdub> tseng: yes!
[06:44] <tseng> jdub: i had some quick questions.
[06:44] <tseng> thanks.
[06:44] <jdub> oh, that was "yes! go for it" not "yes! wait your turn!"
[06:45] <tseng> ok, sure
[06:45] <tseng> http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/tomboy/ < source is here
[06:45] <tseng> the questions are about trying to get it past lintian
[06:46] <tseng> it gives 2 errors about duplicate runtime deps, which are solved by cutting back to just ${net:Depends}, but im not sure how to verify quickly that it still has proper depends at that point
[06:46] <tseng> the other error is about using an old Policy, which isnt very helpful at all
[06:47] <sid77> hi
[06:49] <dholbach> *GRRR* whats wrong here: 4070B/s
[06:49] <mvo_> dholbach: slashdoted I think
[06:56] <mdz> T-Bone: has it had a successful automatic install yet?
[06:56] <kent> dholbach, the ubuntu server is very slow for me aswell, (if that is what your talking about..)
[06:56] <T-Bone> mdz: we're very close to that
[06:56] <dholbach> kent: yes :-)
[06:56] <T-Bone> mdz: actually the fix made by Kamion this morning should enable me to make a full install on my zx2000
[06:56] <dholbach> kent: but my connection is terribly slow all day now :-/
[06:57] <T-Bone> mdz: there are some autodetection issues on some kinds of boxes tho, i'll work on that this week end. My main concern is the kernel stability. Seems that 2.6.10 is pretty much a hell on ia64 with hotplug/udev enabled/
[06:58] <mdz> it sounds like we should be able to release something, but I'm not confident that we can stand behind it as an officially supported architecture at this time
[06:59] <T-Bone> k
[06:59] <T-Bone> mdz: basically i'd like to know whether i should put max effort into it (like a rush sprint) or if i can get some sleep at night :)
[07:00] <maswan> Mithrandir: 3M/s
[07:00] <daniels> static char *_XkbKnownLanguages = "c=ascii:da,de,en,es,fr,is,it,nl,no,pt,sv=iso8859-1:hu,pl,cs=iso8859-2:eo=iso8859-3:sp=iso8859-5:ar,ara=iso8859-6:el=iso8859-7:he=iso8859-8:tr=iso8859-9:lt,lv=iso8859-13:et,fi=iso8859-15:ru=koi8-r:uk=koi8-u:th,th_TH,th_TH.iso8859-11=iso8859-11:th_TH.TIS620=tis620:hy=armscii-8:vi=tcvn-5712:ka=georgian-academy:be,bg=microsoft-cp1251";
[07:00] <lamont> T-Bone: is it much better with 2.6.11?
[07:00] <daniels> dear XKB,
[07:00] <daniels> DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE!
[07:00] <daniels> cheers, daniel
[07:01] <T-Bone> lamont: couldn't test that yet. It was much better with 2.6.8 that's for sure
[07:01] <T-Bone> anyway, be back in a jiffy
[07:10] <azeem> daniels: is there a chance xkb is actually gonna die?
[07:11] <abelli> ogra: ciao
[07:11] <tseng> heh, we lost jdub 
[07:11] <Hwolf> Am I totally screwed up if the superblock of my xfs partition is gone?
[07:12] <ogra> abelli: hi
[07:12] <tseng> Hwolf: you certainly arent in a good position
[07:12] <tseng> Hwolf: tried xfrepair?
[07:12] <tseng> xfs_repair rather.
[07:12] <Hwolf> tseng, yes, it won't find the secondary block. I'm talking about my root partition.
[07:13] <abelli> ogra: hows the database?
[07:14] <ogra> abelli: didnt do much during this week, just examining hal... too much MOTU work... but this weekend i'll play with hal patches...
[07:15] <ogra> abelli: most of the stuff i need already exists....i just need to inject it in the right place....
[07:15] <abelli> ogra: mmm... call it Hailie
[07:17] <daniels> azeem: no, not at all
[07:17] <daniels> azeem: it's better than the previous horror show we had.  it's just that ALL the code we have to deal with it in the free implementations is COMPLETE CRAP.
[07:17] <ogra> Hwolf: use a livecd and read the manpage of xfs_repair very carefully...i have never seen a xfs you couldnt repair....even if it can be a pita
[07:18] <abelli> ogra: didnt you see mine?
[07:18] <abelli> :)
[07:19] <ogra> abelli: i saw it....lets talk about a name if there is something to give a name to ;)
[07:19] <ogra> abelli: ...and i wont rename hal ;) 
[07:20] <azeem> daniels: ok, cool. Cause Debian GNU/Hurd is probably gonna use it to configure the console keyboard layout with it at some point, so I'd like to know whether our bets are off :)
[07:20] <abelli> ogra: no i mean ... the b0rk3d xfs
[07:20] <ogra> abelli: ah, ok
[07:20] <daniels> azeem: you're what?!?
[07:21] <ogra> abelli: nope, i didnt see yours...
[07:21] <abelli> Hailie: Hardware Abstraction Injected Layer...
[07:21] <ogra> hehe
[07:21] <abelli> ogra: coz u need to inject the real Hal
[07:21] <azeem> daniels: what's the problem?
[07:22] <daniels> azeem: you do realise that the number of people on the planet who understand xkb is around the same as the number of people who have had a hojillion bajillion watts of power running through them and survived, right?
[07:22] <ogra> abelli: if i make any real changes to hal i'll send them upstream....(even if its senseless, since hal 0.6 will be a total rewrite)
[07:22] <daniels> i have enough of an understanding to solve most bugs and get by pretty well, which i acquired after of months of attempting to solve really hard xkb bugs.  only denis barbier, svu and ivan pascal actually understand the whole thing, and understand it well.
[07:23] <ogra> OMG
[07:23] <azeem> daniels: AIUI, there's an xkb driver for the Hurd console, which uses xkb keymaps and configuration options. I'm not sure the whole (or even parts) of the xkb codebase are involved
[07:23] <ogra> did anybody read this ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4195339.stm http://www.boingboing.net/2005/01/27/jailed_for_using_a_n.html
[07:23] <azeem> ogra: anybody who read /. ;)
[07:24] <ogra> oh
[07:24] <ogra> azeem: which doesnt include me :)
[07:29] <daniels> azeem: that's absolutely scary
[07:31] <azeem> in which way?
[07:32] <azeem> I thought there was at least the suggestion to unite the console and X11 keyboard setup on Linux as well
[07:38] <mdz> elmo: are extraordinary delays in archive processing to be expected at the moment?
[07:54] <thom> ok, why does my cdrom drive get spun up every few minutes? just to check whether there's a disk in it? that's hella annoying
[07:57] <ogra> hmm, kaite remains pretty silent on me today....
[07:58] <mdz> thom: minutes? dunno. the media check is every second or two
[08:00] <ogra> but it shouldnt spin up....
[08:03] <hidde> Guys. I accidentaly erased my /boot, I'm now running an ubuntu(warty) from my secondary harddisk. /root should be fine. How can I boot back into my /root (hoary) installation, can I just copy a kernel and piont it to the hoary /root?
[08:04] <mdz> lamont: what archive do the d-i daily builds point at?
[08:04] <mdz> lamont: and how can I tell when localechooser 0.04.0ubuntu2 is present there?
[08:05] <rcaskey_> hidde; why don't you just reinstall the kernel package and run grub again
[08:05] <mdz> hidde: this is not a support channel; please try #ubuntu
[08:06] <hidde> mdz, sorry
[08:07] <elmo> mdz: in terms of appearing on arrchive.u.c, yes
[08:08] <mdz> elmo: more concerned about little and whatever the d-i builds use at the moment
[08:09] <ogra> elmo: katie didnt answer the MOTU package i uploaded, could you look whats wrong ? (timer-applet)
[08:10] <mdz> I think little just needs the rsync unlimiting treatment
[08:10] <mdz> ogra: how long ago?
[08:10] <ogra> 20-30 min
[08:11] <ogra> it seemed ok to me....but probably i missed an error...
[08:20] <elmo> ogra: you didn't use a whitelisted email in the Maintainer field
[08:21] <elmo> mdz: I doubt it, but I can do that if you want
[08:21] <ogra> ouch
[08:21] <elmo> the load on auckland/mirnyy is 500-800 non-stop atm
[08:21] <ogra> elmo: so signing MOTU candidate packages wont work ? i.e. i have to touch them ?
[08:22] <elmo> ogra: if you want to get mail about them; yes
[08:22] <ogra> heh
[08:22] <ogra> ok
[08:24] <ogra> elmo: is changing the address in the dsc and changes enough ? or do i have to rebuild the source package with a new changelog entry too ?
[08:25] <elmo> ogra: change the address in the Maintainer field of the .changes
[08:25] <elmo> i.e.  -m to 'dpkg-buildpackage'
[08:25] <marcin_ant> mako: around?
[08:25] <elmo> i'd hope you're at least test-building these packages anyway
[08:25] <ogra> ah, great...easier then i thought 
[08:26] <ogra> elmo: worked the last two days with the guy on it .... i made about 20 builds.... with this one too...
[08:26] <ogra> elmo: i'm trying to avoid making errors twice ;)
[08:30] <ogra> ok, next try...
[08:30] <maswan> elmo: If you have load isses, want to try and offload it a bit?
[08:31] <elmo> maswan: I already tried, but I'm being defeated by DNS caching
[08:31] <elmo> and/or people using !cdimage urls
[08:31] <maswan> elmo: How about http redirects for the iso downloads?
[08:33] <elmo> hmm, that's a good idea, but I couldn't redirect them to cdimage.u.c, I'd have to use the real hostname or something, which'd suck if it's visible to the user at all
[08:33] <maswan> elmo: cdimage-temp.u.c CNAME ftp.acc.umu.se and redirect to the first?
[08:33] <maswan> or cdimage2 or something
[08:36] <rubenv> Anyone knows if John Hornbeck is on IRC?
[08:37] <ogra> rubenv: he is hornbeck if he is here
[08:37] <rubenv> ogra: thanks
[08:37] <rubenv> he deleted the part about dbus on the beagle page
[08:37] <rubenv> but without dbus-sharp, it's quite hard to do beagle
[08:37] <ogra> rubenv: there is a changelog...
[08:38] <elmo> maswan: yeah, good point
[08:38] <rubenv> I know
[08:38] <rubenv> but as he maintains that page, i'd rather not revert it (given the fact that i don't like to build dbus from source)
[08:39] <thom> rubenv: libdbus-cil is in universe
[08:39] <rubenv> thom: really?
[08:39] <rubenv> now that's new :)
[08:42] <rcaskey_> ogra: something is still odd in there, it's possible to get beagle installed without getting all the deps for best
[08:42] <thom> jdub should have beagle in universe by the end of the weekend anyway
[08:43] <ogra> rcaskey_: i neither did change the page nor do i have installed beagle or use it ;)
[08:43] <rubenv> jummy :)
[08:43] <maswan> elmo: Well, I'm putting it up on ftp.acc now, I'll let you know when everything is there.
[08:44] <ogra> elmo: gah...name collision
[08:52] <jbailey> jdub: Sure.  Override the configure variable.  You're usually better off to force a call to autoreconf yourself at the beginning though.  Most autogen scripts are horribly broken and a mistake that for some reason can't quite be squished out.
[08:53] <jbailey> jdub: Assuming you want to calling autogen with the same parameters as you'd call configure with, set DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(DEB_SRCDIR)/autogen.sh
[08:53] <jbailey> jdub: The extra variables preserve sanity for tarball.mk users.
[08:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping?
[08:58] <maswan> elmo: feel free to throw a thousand or so iso downloaders this way: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/temp/hoary/array-3.5-live/
[08:59] <maswan> elmo: "temp" just means that it isn't properly updated or so, the files will stick for a month or two unless otherwise requested
[09:05] <zul> uh is the archive overloaded?
[09:06] <ogra> zul: why ?
[09:06] <zul> its taking me 11 minutes to download perl-doc its usally faster than that...could be me
[09:06] <mdz> yes, it is overloaded
[09:07] <zul> ok just checking
[09:07] <mdz> due to slashdot, mostly
[09:07] <ogra> whee...7k...
[09:07] <zul> grr.
[09:08] <ogra> mdz: wow...any statistics ?
[09:09] <mdz> a fun statistic would be how long it's taking me to build new CD images: about 4 hours and counting
[09:09] <ogra> woah
[09:10] <zul> mdz: only? ;)
[09:10] <ogra> i'm impressed that its still working fine...even if the speed is slow....great work elmo, thumbs up
[09:11] <hidde> guys, is there any way to fix this:  failed to rmdir/unlink `/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci': Input/output error
[09:11] <hidde> dpkg: failed to open `/var/lib/dpkg/status' for writing status information: Input/output error
[09:11] <hidde> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
[09:11] <hidde> E: Sub-process returned an error code
[09:12] <mdz> hidde: as I said earlier, this is not a support channel.  it is for development-related discussion.  you want #ubuntu
[09:15] <sm> the topic could be worded more clearly actually
[09:16] <sm> Ubuntu developers' channel | Note, for support and general discussion use #ubuntu instead... 
[09:22] <mako> marcin_ant: hey
[09:34] <mxpxpod> is there any chance of getting gtkmm 2.5.5 and some other updated *mm packages into hoary?
[09:41] <schweeb|work> mxpxpod: I'm guessing the best way to go about that would be to file a bug against the package in hoary, and give your reasons why you need the updated versions
[09:41] <mxpxpod> schweeb|work: thanks
[09:46] <abelli> yo everybody
[09:46] <abelli> smurfix: ding
[09:55] <maswan> elmo: so, have you fallen off the frontpage of /. yet and the load gone away, or can we expect some traffic this way? :)
[09:57] <mdz> maswan: we left the front page a while ago
[09:58] <mdz> but my bittorrent seed is still pushing over 2mbit, so I imagine there are still a number of folks downloading
[10:00] <elmo> maswan: thanks for the offer, but I don't think I want to start trying to  modify apache now - the load's slowly dropping on archive.u.c, but even so interactive work is near impossible
[10:02] <ogra> elmo: could you flush timer-applet from new ?
[10:06] <maswan> elmo: sure
[10:20] <marcin_ant> mako: hello
[10:20] <mako> macewan: whats up
[10:20] <mako> sorry
[10:20] <mako> marcin_ant: whats up
[10:20] <mako> macewan: nick completions, bah
[10:20] <marcin_ant> mako: hi - nice to meet you
[10:21] <mako> marcin_ant: likewise.. what can i help you with?
[10:21] <marcin_ant> mako: smurfix told me that you can know something about website competition
[10:22] <abelli> mako: time for docbooking me?
[10:22] <marcin_ant> mako: I would like to ask if any previews of already submitted projects will be available?
[10:22] <mako> marcin_ant: jdub is actually coordinating that
[10:23] <marcin_ant> mako: hmmm 
[10:23] <marcin_ant> mako: ok
[10:23] <marcin_ant> mako: but maybe you know how much projects you already have?
[10:24] <tritium> did the update to mozilla-firefox install change the default theme to this gnome-looking theme?
[10:24] <tritium> I just purged mozilla-firefox-gnome-support, and it still looks gnome-like
[10:26] <mako> marcin_ant: i know there have been a few.. i've only seen one
[10:27] <mdz> tritium: /usr/share/doc/mozilla-firefox/changelog.Debian.gz
[10:27] <tritium> mdz, thanks.  should have thought of that
[10:27] <marcin_ant> mako: few... ok - if few (not thousands) then I'll submit mine 
[10:28] <marcin_ant> mako: thank you for info
[10:28] <mako> marcin_ant: not thousands, no. you should definitely submit yours
[10:28] <YokoZar> Ok, i've heard something about the ia32-libs package - apparently if I include it in the 64 bit version of Wine, Wine will properly depend on the 32 bit libraries it needs to run 32 bit windows apps.  Is this right?
[10:28] <tritium> mdz, so "enabling" gnomestripe theme blew away the old default, it seems
[10:29] <YokoZar> The ia32 package doesn't have some things wine needs though, like 32 bit SSL.  What's the best way to handle this?
[10:31] <lamont_r> YokoZar: it will include the 32-bit libraries needed to run say, openoffice.  not necessarily windoze apps..
[10:31] <lamont_r> depends on what libs are there - it's nothing but the libraries from those libs
[10:32] <lamont_r> s/libs$/i386 packages/
[10:32] <ogra> did anyone see fabio today ?
[10:33] <YokoZar> Is there a way to specify that Wine needs 32 bit versions of its dependencies (and both 32 and 64 bit on the 64 bit version) then?  Or do I have to create a 32bit wine libs package like the ia32 one?
[10:34] <YokoZar> Or would the proper way to do it be to split up ia32 into what wine needs and doesn't, make a new package for what wine needs, and depend on two of them?
[10:42] <tritium> thom, did you intend for gnomestripe to completely replace the default firefox theme?
[10:47] <giskard> one ubuntu developer alive?
[10:49] <mdz> all dead
[10:50] <giskard> bad...btw...there are a kernel-package team for ubuntu?
[10:50] <mdz> you should subscribe to ubuntu-announce :-)
[10:50] <mdz> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-January/000014.html
[10:50] <abelli> giskard: fabbione announced the kernel team today
[10:50] <abelli> giskard: are you interested?
[10:51] <mdz> smurfix: the LoCoTeamList page needs de-countrification
[10:51] <abelli> ???
[10:52] <abelli> mdz: is smurfix around?
[10:52] <mdz> I don't think so
[10:53] <abelli> mdz: can you define de-countrification?
[10:53] <abelli> :)
[10:53] <mdz> abelli: I just fixed it
[10:54] <giskard> ciao * ;)
[10:55] <abelli> mdz: sorry what page?
[10:58] <haggai> crimsun: you have mail :)
[11:00] <ogra> do we have any known hungarians around who could sign a key for a new MOTU ?
[11:02] <crimsun> haggai: thanks :)
[11:11] <mdz> abelli: don't worry about it
[11:11] <abelli> mdz: no, its just because it was modifying it, and i stopped when you said you were modifying it tooo
[11:11] <YokoZar> I'm packaging up a program written for Xdialog that is basically a bunch of scripts (no compilation needed) - what's a good example package with an easy rules file to copy?
[11:11] <YokoZar> The bittorrent rules file is a bit weird
[11:12] <mdz> ogra: please be patient and let elmo take care of your package in the next batch, along with any others
[11:12] <mdz> abelli: <mdz> smurfix: the LoCoTeamList page needs de-countrification
[11:12] <mdz> abelli: ^^^^^
[11:12] <mdz> that page
[11:13] <abelli> yeah.. i mean what does  "decountrification" mean? ;)
[11:13] <ogra> mdz: ok... i thought he has just to remove it from new to enable me to upload....i dont want to be impatient...
[11:14] <mdz> ogra: is the package new, or not?
[11:14] <abelli> too many "mean"
[11:15] <ogra> mdz: its new, but i didnt change the maintainer mailadress to mine in the MOTU candidate package....so the old one is blocking a fixed upload
[11:15] <mdz> ogra: it is not blocking; you can upload a new version
[11:15] <mdz> ogra: but if I understand correctly, you don't need to upload a new one
[11:15] <ogra> mdz: i tried and katie rejected it : a file with this name already exists in the New directory.
[11:16] <mdz> ogra: that means that you tried to upload the same version twice (don't do that)
[11:16] <ogra> ah, ok
[11:16] <mdz> what elmo was telling you was that you did not get email about it because of the email address that you used
[11:16] <mdz> you don't need to make a new upload to fix it
[11:17] <ogra> great... so it will get processed if elmo reviewed it and found it error free ?
[11:28] <opi> smurfix: ping :)
[11:28] <jdub> GOOOOOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS
[11:28] <opi> smurfix: could you remind me an address for a LoCoTeamLeaders mailing list
[11:28] <opi> jdub: GOOOD NIGTH BEER LOVERS :P
[11:30] <tseng> jdub: morning.
[11:30] <opi> smurfix: ok, got it :)
[11:41] <dholbach> re
[11:42] <ogra> dholbach: hi
[11:42] <T-Bone> fabbione: ping, just in case?
[11:42] <dholbach> hai ogra :-)
[11:46] <dholbach> now that's a nice email title: "Meet Singles With -Christian- Principles"
[11:50] <jdub> oh man
[11:50] <jdub> he's baaaaaaack!
[11:50] <jdub> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=1207&action=view
[11:51] <T-Bone> WTF?
[11:52] <dholbach> jdub: which bug does this belong to?
[11:52] <hidde> T-bone, my reaction exactly
[11:52] <mdz> jdub: is sound juicer going to get better for 2.10?
[11:52] <kent> jdub, who did that? :( its a bit evil to put pictures in bugzilla that dont belong :(
[11:53] <mdz> just look at the bug
[11:54] <dholbach> mdz: where do i get the bug number from the attachment id?
[11:56] <jdub> mdz: what kind of better?
[11:57] <mdz> jdub: for example, letting me specify quality settings
[11:57] <mdz> jdub: or defaulting to using the CD-ROM device which has a disc in it
[11:58] <mdz> jdub: or explaining what things like "Ogg Vorbis" and "FLAC" mean
[11:58] <jdub> 1 and 3 will be solved when s-j shifts to audio profiles
[11:58] <mdz> just little things that would make it more enjoyable to use
[11:58] <jdub> 2 should just work
[11:59] <mdz> so it's a bug that it doesn't on either of my machines here?
[12:00] <jdub> i'm tempted to say "of course, because that's sensible behaviour and it didn't do what you expect", but i don't think you mean that ;)
[12:01] <dholbach> jdub: what did you do about libtheora?
[12:02] <jdub> dholbach: haven't had ppc test yet
[12:02] <jdub> i'm assuming it won't work, however
[12:02] <jdub> talking to andy about it
[12:02] <dholbach> jdub: what about amd64? does it work now?