[04:56] <zul> hey pitti
[04:57] <pitti> Hi zul, how's it going
[04:57] <zul> good u?
[04:57] <pitti> fine, thanks
[04:59] <mdz> morning folks
[05:00] <mdz> am I the only one who is unable to login to the website, and therefore edit the wiki?
[05:00] <Keybuk> morning matt
[05:00] <pitti> mdz: I added an USN today, worked fine
[05:00] <Kamion> mdz: elmo fixed that earlier today, he said
[05:00] <mdz> ah, so he did
[05:00] <Kamion> it was broken for me this morning
[05:00] <mdz> thanks, elmo
[05:00] <sabdfl> hi all
[05:01] <sivang> hey sabdfl 
[05:01] <amu> hey sabdfl 
[05:01] <mdz> first, is there anyone here who is going through the maintainer process, and needs tech board approval?
[05:01] <mdz> I believe at least jbailey is in that position
[05:01] <zul> you have to be approved by the cc first correct?
[05:02] <Keybuk> there was at least one according to my sms from elmo
[05:02] <mdz> zul: not necessarily, accrording to the docs as they stand, but that seems to be the way it works out in practice
[05:02] <ajmitch> mdz: myself also, but I don't have CC approval yet
[05:02] <mdz> because CC needs to approve you as a member first
[05:02] <jbailey> mdz: Yes.
[05:03] <zul> hmmm...ill wait for the cc then ;)
[05:03] <mdz> if we have more time at the end, and a CC quorum, we'll see if we can take care of you guys as well
[05:03] <sabdfl> likely
[05:03] <sabdfl> let's tr to get it all done today
[05:04] <mdz> but for now...sabdfl, Keybuk on jbailey?
[05:04] <sabdfl> yes!
[05:04] <Keybuk> wouldn't trust him with a barge pole :o)
[05:04] <Keybuk> yes, of course :p
[05:04] <mdz> yes on my part as well
[05:05] <mdz> jbailey: congratulations!
[05:05] <mdz> I think "mail elmo" is the next step in the process
[05:05] <sabdfl> smurfs, snoopy's, we got it all
[05:05] <sabdfl> signed CoC
[05:05] <ajmitch> well that was easy for you, jbailey 
[05:05] <mdz> signed CoC came with being a member
[05:05] <jbailey> ajmitch: It's true.  My wife's a dancer, she taught me.
[05:05] <ajmitch> congrats :)
[05:06] <sivang> jbailey: congrets
[05:06] <mdz> moving on with the agenda
[05:06] <mdz> who added this item about zinf?
[05:06] <mdz> I asked for more information in the wiki, but there was no followup
[05:07] <mdz> so I think it has been abandoned
[05:07] <ogra> jbailey: hey jbailey :)
[05:07] <mdz> the other seed change on the table is gs-esp
[05:07] <Keybuk> zinf would need to replace something (rhythmbox?) given its feature list
[05:07] <Keybuk> and I'm inclined to stick with rb as it's known good
[05:08] <Kamion> hasn't the gs-esp seed change already happened?
[05:08] <mdz> hmm, so it did.  no one seemed interested :-)
[05:08] <mdz> is germinate doing the right thing with it?
[05:08] <Kamion> defined as?
[05:08] <mdz> using it instead of gs
[05:08] <mdz> to satisfy all the or-ed dependencies
[05:08] <Kamion> that's what cdimage seems to be doing, at least
[05:09] <mdz> ok, let's follow up after the meeting to confirm
[05:09] <mdz> and then roll a new ubuntu-meta
[05:09] <sabdfl> esp?
[05:09] <mdz> that's the end of the agenda
[05:09] <mdz> any other business?
[05:09] <sabdfl> this is a record
[05:09] <sivang> hehe
[05:09] <pitti> sabdfl: psql 8?
[05:09] <ajmitch> that was awfully quick
[05:09] <Keybuk> was gonna say, this is the shortest TB meeting *ever&
[05:09] <fabbione> wow 9 minutes!
[05:09] <pitti> sabdfl: while we are at it?
[05:09] <mdz> sabdfl: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-January/003776.html
[05:09] <sabdfl> mdz: pitti has psql 8.0 packages...
[05:10] <Keybuk> and now pitti is going to say "language packs" and ruin it all <g>
[05:10] <ogra> erm, what about other maintainer candidates ?
[05:10] <pitti> although, that would spoil the record
[05:10] <pitti> Keybuk: "language packs"
[05:10] <mdz> psql 8 sounds like a massive UVF exception
[05:10] <pitti> so?
[05:10] <Kamion> esp => "Easy Software Products", the cupsys people I think
[05:10] <pitti> to be more clear
[05:10] <pitti> I'm _working_ on psql 8 packages
[05:10] <sabdfl> mdz: it would not replace 7.4.6
[05:10] <pitti> actually I'm working on a completely new architecture for all major postgresql versions
[05:10] <mdz> oh, ok then
[05:10] <pitti> so I don't have releasable packages ready by now
[05:10] <sabdfl> the idea would be to have it available
[05:11] <mdz> as long as pitti is happy supporting two versions
[05:11] <sabdfl> it requires some manual jiggery to move data from 7.4.6 to 8.0
[05:11] <mdz> sounds like postgresql
[05:11] <sabdfl> depending on how much progress pitti can make on the packages
[05:11] <pitti> if at all, this is something for universe only
[05:11] <mdz> oh, if it's for universe, then there's nothing to talk about
[05:11] <pitti> I'm working at them "after hours" (whatever that means) as fast as I can
[05:11] <sabdfl> i'm not sure about that!
[05:11] <pitti> but it will still take me a while
[05:11] <sabdfl> we know upstream is solid
[05:12] <sabdfl> so the only question is whether we are prepared to support pitti's packages
[05:12] <sabdfl> i vote that we take that decision closer to release
[05:12] <sabdfl> main / universe
[05:12] <pitti> agreed
[05:12] <ajmitch> that sounds like the situation with mono - 1.1.x is meant to be better than 1.0.x, but I don't know if someone is working on universe packages or not yet
[05:12] <pitti> right now I don't even have something for universe
[05:12] <mdz> on the same note, I think that the current SeedFreeze strategy doesn't fit the way that we actually work
[05:12] <mdz> and in practice, it's fine to make seed changes much later in the release process
[05:12] <ogra> mdz: what about other maintainer candidates ? crimsun and tseng already have proven to make good packages, they are both already members...and it would ease my MOTU work if the were allowed to upload
[05:13] <mdz> so for hoary+1 (I refuse to acknoweldege the True Name of the Beast), I think we ought to make adjustments to that part of the freeze process
[05:13] <lamont> mdz: SeedChill?
[05:13] <sivang> mdz: hehe
[05:13] <sabdfl> TNotB?
[05:13] <mdz> ogra: if we finish with all tech board business, and still have enough CC representatives, we'll do that
[05:13] <pitti> sabdfl: I try to get the packages ready as fast as I can; if I have something to show, we can discuss the hoary question again
[05:13] <ogra> great !
[05:14] <thom> lamont: seedslush
[05:14] <sabdfl> pitti: excellent, it would be wonderful
[05:15] <pitti> sabdfl: if some of your guys can help me with testing/fixing, that'd be great
[05:16] <sabdfl> pitti: publish the packages
[05:16] <pitti> ok
[05:17] <mdz> ok, so there's no decision to be taken on postgresql, right?
[05:17] <pitti> not a decision
[05:17] <pitti> more a general question about the feeling
[05:17] <pitti> whether we want/like it or not
[05:17] <pitti> and how much time I invest into this
[05:17] <pitti> right now, it's a free-time project
[05:17] <mdz> ok
[05:17] <doko> 8.0 requires all dependent packages to be rebuilt?
[05:18] <mdz> Kamion: are you available for CC business?
[05:18] <pitti> doko: yes, all client programs/libraries/etc.
[05:18] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[05:19] <mdz> thanks, elmo
[05:19] <sabdfl> hey elmo
[05:19] <sabdfl> cc buziness?
[05:19] <mdz> ogra: do you have a list of candidates?
[05:20] <ajmitch> the CC agenda has a few listed
[05:20] <ogra> curently i would suggest treenaks (who vant be here), crimsun and tseng
[05:20] <mdz> zul,ajmitch: ?
[05:20] <zul> im here
[05:20] <ogra> yup
[05:20] <ogra> sorry zul/ajmitch....missed you
[05:21] <ogra> oh, and if possible dholbach
[05:21] <Kamion> zul: are you Chuck Short?
[05:21] <ajmitch> that's ok 
[05:21] <mdz> the CC agenda also has dholbach
[05:21] <zul> Kamion: yep
[05:21] <mdz> who doesn't seem to be online at the moment
[05:21] <ogra> mdz: unfortunately not...probably mvo knows more ?
[05:22] <sabdfl> ajmitch: are you interested in an selinux-enabled-by-default ubuntu derivative project?
[05:22] <ajmitch> sabdfl: yes, that's what I'm working on
[05:22] <sabdfl> ok
[05:22] <mdz> he is one of a group of folks in the Ubuntu community who are interested in that project
[05:22] <sabdfl> don't see it in the mainline for a few releases, but am interested in a derivative where it can get some banging-on
[05:22] <sabdfl> cool
[05:23] <sabdfl> one at a time
[05:23] <mdz> ajmitch seems to be first on the list
[05:24] <sabdfl> are we confirming member or uploader (universe)?
[05:24] <elmo> sorry, what are these candidates for?
[05:24] <mdz> MOTU
[05:24] <mdz> as far as I  know
[05:24] <elmo> ok
[05:24] <sabdfl> so can we agree that any two of TB / CC / MOTU is good enough for that?
[05:24] <sabdfl> MOTU or universe uploader?
[05:24] <Kamion> presumably ajmitch would need access to more than universe eventually, but I think it would be best to stick to universe initially and see how he goes with patches
[05:24] <mdz> ogra: (this would mean that you and chris together could approve new MOTU uploaders)
[05:25] <ogra> sabdfl: isnt that identical ?
[05:25] <mdz> sabdfl: MOTU == universe uploader, no?
[05:25] <Kamion> (due to selinux invariably needing to change stuff in base)
[05:25] <ajmitch> Kamion: yes, the packages that I'd need to touch for main would have to be reviewed
[05:25] <Kamion> I see MOTU as the universe team leader
[05:25] <sabdfl> it's what I thought we had, i'm just confirming, since there has been *cough* some confusion
[05:25] <Kamion> s
[05:25] <ogra> mdz: yeah, that would be great (if haggai agrees)
[05:25] <Kamion> but the terms seem to have been conflated since then
[05:25] <sabdfl> mdz: what kamion said
[05:25] <Kamion> due to, er, the "Master" bit
[05:26] <sabdfl> MOTU can approve new universe uploaders, as we discussed last time
[05:26] <mdz> ajmitch: you mention that you were working on the python2.4 transition in universe; who were you working with on that?
[05:26] <sabdfl> which i didn't document
[05:26] <ajmitch> mdz: I started rebuilding some packages with ogra 
[05:26] <ogra> mdz: me...
[05:26] <Keybuk> what would "Slave Of The Universe" be though?  Monk?
[05:26] <mdz> I always sort of saw MOTU as the collective, but it's not terribly important
[05:26] <ogra> me too
[05:26] <sabdfl> also, MOTU would make decisions on new packages for universe (subject to elmo vetting)
[05:26] <ajmitch> however I haven't got very far yet 
[05:27] <elmo> haggai and ogra can be MOTMOTU
[05:27] <ogra> lol
[05:27] <haggai> heh
[05:27] <sabdfl> well, that could get hectic since we said two MOTU could approve a new universe uploader, and I wouldn't want the group to be able to extend itself arbitrarily
[05:27] <mdz> sounds like an anime character
[05:27] <mdz> agreed, that privilege should be limited to the team leadership
[05:28] <sabdfl> lets stick to the earlier terminology:
[05:28] <sabdfl>  - MOTU - masters of the universe - team leaders in the universe component
[05:28] <sabdfl>   - they make freeze / version / NEW decisions for universe
[05:28] <sabdfl>  - two of them, for the moment, can approve a new uploader to universe
[05:28] <sabdfl> uploaders can be unrestricted, or limited to universe
[05:28] <elmo> have MOTU got a point of contact yet, or is it just ubuntu-devel@ ?
[05:29] <sabdfl> i tihnk the restriction is social
[05:29] <mdz> elmo: ubuntu-devel / ogra / haggai
[05:29] <sabdfl> MOTU, IIRC, are haggai and ogra
[05:29] <ogra> yup
[05:29] <haggai> aye
[05:29] <sabdfl> ok
[05:29] <sabdfl> i'd be happy with a few more MOTU
[05:29] <sabdfl> they need to be people that the existing MOTU like to work with, to get a good team
[05:29] <mdz> the CC agenda doesn't distinguish between member and maintainer candidates
[05:29] <elmo> sabdfl: err, unrestricted uploaders are maintainers surely?
[05:30] <sabdfl> elmo: yes
[05:30] <elmo> the restriction isn't social, then, it's technical
[05:30] <haggai> so the term is 'universe uploader' then?
[05:30] <elmo> and I thought we finially hashed out procedures for maintainers in the last CC ?
[05:30] <sabdfl> mako has a doc on the wiki, i'll review, update and move to the main site and call for comments
[05:30] <ogra> haggai UNUP ?
[05:30] <sabdfl> elmo: we did, i just didn't write it up
[05:30] <Kamion> ogra: no need to over-abbreviate :-)
[05:31] <ogra> heh...
[05:31] <Kamion> (abbreviations require expansion, and therefore documentation ...)
[05:31] <mdz> elmo: yes, we did, but sabdfl wasn't available at the time
[05:31] <sabdfl> elmo: excellent
[05:31] <sabdfl> oh, did i miss another discussion on it last week? was referring to the *previous* one
[05:31] <sabdfl> gosh this is shocking
[05:32] <sabdfl> ill review the log of the last cc meeting, and mako's writing, and post a final draft
[05:32] <sabdfl> ANYHOW
[05:32] <sabdfl> for now, let's run through the list
[05:32] <sabdfl> any two people can say aye to a universe uploader (TB / CC / MOTU)
[05:32] <sabdfl> let's go
[05:33] <sabdfl> ajmitch?
[05:33] <ajmitch> yes?
[05:33] <ajmitch> still awake..
[05:33] <Kamion> hang on, don't they need to be members first? => CC majority needed
[05:33] <sabdfl> who seconds ajmitch for uploading to universe?
[05:33] <sabdfl> Kamion: didnt we agree to accelerate the process for a while?
[05:34] <Kamion> mm, ok, I thought that was just bypassing TB approval not CC approval as well
[05:34] <elmo> zul: just say no to candy from strangers
[05:34] <Kamion> but if everybody disagrees with me then I'll go away
[05:34] <zul> elmo: heh
[05:35] <mako> Kamion: i think your position is sensible but that's not the way it was written AIUI
[05:35] <Kamion> alright
[05:35] <sabdfl> ok, let's take a decision now, cc only:
[05:35] <sabdfl>  yes or no
[05:36] <sabdfl>  should two of TB / MOTU / CC be able to approve a new uploader to universe, for a limited time until we have grown the universe team to a good size?
[05:37] <ogra> yes (wrt to "limited time")
[05:37] <azeem> so you don't need to be a Member first? Or you become a Member automatically?
[05:37] <sabdfl> mako? kamion? elmo?
[05:37] <mako> azeem: that as my question
[05:37] <mako> sabdfl: can we clarify what happens wrt membership first?
[05:38] <elmo> if it only takes two CC to become a member, I'm not sure there's a pressing need?
[05:38] <sabdfl>  it would imply membership, allowing us to grow quickly for a few weeks / months, rather than dance around over several weeks
[05:38] <elmo> given the impromtu approval stuff we discussed at last CC
[05:38] <Kamion> yes, so long as it's clear and actually documented that way
[05:38] <ogra> sabdfl: ...and discuss the process....
[05:38] <mako> so automatic membership also..
[05:38] <sabdfl> impromptu approval stuff? i missed that
[05:38] <mdz> that was last week's CC meeting
[05:38] <sabdfl> summary?
[05:39] <mdz> the question was whether CC members should be able to approve outside of CC meetings
[05:39] <mako> oh right, yes
[05:39] <sabdfl> ok
[05:39] <sabdfl> good idea
[05:39] <mdz> it was decided that they should, as long as it is properly recorded
[05:39] <sabdfl> ok, so that reduces the time lag
[05:39] <mdz> and, er, mako volunteered to do the record-keeping
[05:40] <sabdfl> -- you could get two MOTU and two CC and you;d be straight in?
[05:40] <elmo> as a universe uploader, yeah?
[05:40] <mako> right, as a universe uploader
[05:40] <ogra> yup
[05:41] <sabdfl> personally, for universe uploaders, i'd be happy for any two of haggai, ogra, elmo, Kamion, mdz, sabdfl, mako (and anyone else I missed from that list) to approve membership and universe upload ONLY
[05:41] <sabdfl> i would expect them only to approve someone they personally know can do a quality job
[05:41] <sabdfl> i would see it as a short term step to grow quickly and efficiently
[05:41] <mdz> ogra, haggai and elmo are in the best position to know, in general
[05:41] <mako> right, it ends post-hoary.. which is what is published
[05:41] <sabdfl> but i'm happy to be overruled here
[05:42] <Kamion> that's fine by me; apologies for derailing the discussion
[05:42] <mdz> mako: only published in the wiki so far, right?
[05:42] <sabdfl> so Kamion is +1, mako, elmo?
[05:42] <mako> mdz: in the wiki and in the meeting notes
[05:42] <mako> sabdfl: i thought agreed to this before :)
[05:42] <elmo> I'm gonna abstain, I really don't mind.  I think it's unnecessary, but I'm also not strongly opposed to it and I don't want to block it, if others want to do it
[05:42] <mdz> mako: let's get that onto the website as soon as it passes sabdfl-o-matic
[05:43] <sabdfl> mako: me too
[05:43] <sabdfl> ok, i vote for it as well
[05:43] <mako> mdz: i emailed sabdfl right after the meeting and was waiting for that blessing
[05:43] <sabdfl> so, until Hoary, you can become a member AND get universe upload given the blessing of ANY TWO of TB / CC / MOTU
[05:43] <mdz> sabdfl has sworn a mighty oath to process that email
[05:43] <sabdfl> phew
[05:44] <sabdfl> once again
[05:44] <sabdfl> ajmitch?
[05:44] <mdz> ogra,haggai: would like to hear from you guys
[05:44] <haggai> I'm afraid I haven't seen anything of ajmitch yet
[05:44] <sabdfl> i don't know the se-linux-lovin' guy
[05:45] <ogra> ajmitch, it think i would ike to review the latest changes on your packages, and if they are ok, i'd like to approve you directly...
[05:45] <mdz> ogra said that he had worked with him
[05:46] <ajmitch> ogra: alright
[05:46] <sabdfl> ajmitch: sounds like you need to work with the MOTU, when they are happy they can approve directly
[05:46] <haggai> sounds good
[05:46] <ogra> haggai if you want to review additionally ....
[05:46] <ogra> just say...
[05:46] <haggai> ogra: will do
[05:46] <sabdfl> brandon hale?
[05:46] <haggai> ogra: just CC me on your mails
[05:47] <mdz> brandon hale == tseng?
[05:47] <ogra> haggai: okay... (we made the most stuff on irc)
[05:47] <ogra> mdz: yup
[05:47] <mako> mdz: yeah
[05:47] <ajmitch> will I still need CC approval to be a member now?
[05:47] <ogra> mdz: ...rrrright aways from here
[05:47] <mako> ajmitch: apparently not :)
[05:47] <ogra> ajmitch: nope
[05:47] <Kamion> ajmitch: not if haggai and ogra are happy with your work; if you're interested in membership before then we can vote on that separately
[05:47] <ajmitch> ok :)
[05:47] <sabdfl> ajmitch: you could conceivably get that first, by being active and making a good contribution anywhere
[05:48] <mdz> pinged tseng and dholbach on -devel
[05:48] <ogra> mdz: tseng is here...
[05:48] <mdz> tseng: both CC and TB are present, so we're doing member/maintainer processing
[05:48] <tseng> ah, ok.
[05:48] <mdz> ogra: he is now :-)
[05:48] <dholbach> hai
[05:48] <Kamion> ajmitch: but I think it'd be as easy for you to just work with haggai/ogra
[05:48] <sabdfl> hey dholbach
[05:48] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[05:48] <mdz> dholbach:  both CC and TB are present, so we're doing member/maintainer processing
[05:48] <dholbach> alright... thought it was due to feb, 8th
[05:49] <tseng> it was.
[05:49] <sivang> mdz: yes, tseng
[05:49] <sabdfl> for clarity - cc could still approve a member (not uploader) if someone has made a good contribution but not yet cracked uploading
[05:49] <sivang> tseng: :)
[05:49] <mdz> it was, but we're taking advantage of an opportunity to accelerate the process
[05:49] <sabdfl> ok, any two seconders for universe uploader and membership for tseng?
[05:49] <ogra> sabdfl: absolutely....
[05:49] <ajmitch> ogra: I'll grab sleep soon & get some packages for you in the next day or two
[05:49] <ogra> since i like tomboy ;)
[05:50] <haggai> was tseng's stuff on IRC too?
[05:50] <Keybuk> tseng++ from me
[05:50] <ogra> ajmitch: great :)
[05:50] <Kamion> that's two
[05:50] <haggai> ah nm
[05:50] <ajmitch> still working on gsf-sharp :)
[05:50] <ogra> haggai: tsen packages the mono apps since a long time
[05:51] <sabdfl> ok done
[05:51] <mako> i can't speak for technical issues but i've seen tseng contributing sicne nearly day one
[05:51] <sabdfl> tseng: congratulations!
[05:51] <sivang> tseng gets ++ from me, as a Memebr, for willingly showing the ways of cdbs for a pkging newbie :)
[05:51] <tseng> sabdfl: yay, thanks.
[05:51] <sivang> (as an Ubuntu Mmeber)
[05:51] <sabdfl> that's member, and uploader to universe
[05:51] <haggai> great
[05:52] <sabdfl> next, dholbach? any two?
[05:52] <ogra> yup
[05:52] <ogra> for the gtkmm love :)
[05:52] <sabdfl> anybody else?
[05:52] <mdz> anyone who becomes a member according to the fast-track process should still go back and sign the CoC, certainly.  is someone keeping track of who needs to do that?
[05:53] <sabdfl> i think elmo is checking for a signed coc before enabling upload
[05:53] <mdz> ok
[05:53] <sabdfl> but we also need to track it for non-uploading members
[05:53] <dholbach> i had a word with debian's *mm maintainer today and i'll work together with him
[05:53] <ogra> dholbach: could you send haggai some of your packaging work .... (coaster for example)
[05:54] <dholbach> ogra: of course
[05:54] <mdz> dholbach: is there anyone you've worked directly with in the Ubuntu community who could serve as a reference?
[05:54] <sabdfl> dholbach: looks like you need to work with one of the TB / CC / MOTU guys to get a second vote of confidence
[05:54] <haggai> ok, dholbach please send me some work and I'll approve once I've had a look
[05:54] <Kamion> I'm happy to look over coaster too if sent references
[05:54] <dholbach> haggai: deb-src http://ubuntu.stufenseite.de/Repo ./
[05:55] <Kamion> sabdfl: that approval can happen out-of-meeting, right?
[05:55] <haggai> yes it can, lets move on
[05:55] <ogra> Kamion: it requires the fixed gtkmm packages (sid or the ones dholbach built)
[05:55] <dholbach> mdz: i worked a bit on the wiki and advertised it on my universities unix group :-)
[05:55] <sabdfl> Kamion: yes
[05:56] <mdz> sounds like ogra and haggai can work with dholbach further
[05:56] <ogra> yup
[05:56] <dholbach> ogra, kamion: i'm coordinating with the new version required with btb@debian.org
[05:56] <mdz> and continue the process that way
[05:56] <sabdfl> zul? any two seconds?
[05:56] <mdz> zul++
[05:56] <sabdfl> is that two?
[05:56] <sabdfl> ;-)
[05:56] <dholbach> :-)
[05:56] <mdz> that was 0->1
[05:57] <haggai> no it's object orientated zul :)
[05:57] <zul> bleah..
[05:57] <sabdfl> any second?
[05:57] <mdz> zul has been doing QA work in Bugzilla
[05:57] <fabbione> and kernel work
[05:57] <mako> zul's email/name?
[05:57] <ogra> i havent seen packags yet....
[05:57] <zul> Chuck Short/zul@gentoo.org
[05:58] <zul> I been helping out with some kernel stuff as well
[05:58] <ogra> zul: did you already do some packaging ? 
[05:58] <mdz> zul: do you have experience with Debian packaging?
[05:58] <mdz> er, Ubuntu packaging ;-)
[05:59] <zul> mdz: i created one or two for open-xchange and some personal packages
[05:59] <elmo> mdz.BrandingUpdate()
[05:59] <sabdfl> zul: looks like you need to get a few packages reviewed by one of the TB / CC / MOTU guys
[05:59] <zul> sabdfl: sure no problems
[05:59] <mdz> can we approve zul as a member at least?
[06:00] <mdz> and leave upload approval to MOTU?
[06:00] <Kamion> ack zul as member
[06:00] <sabdfl> done
[06:00] <sabdfl> zul: welcome!
[06:00] <sabdfl> ok
[06:00] <zul> thanks
[06:01] <sabdfl> any other business?
[06:01] <Jonathan_C> cheers all, thanks for all the good work you put into ubuntu
[06:01] <mdz> in fact we should probably have done the same with the others who were passed to MOTU for processing
[06:01] <sabdfl> sorry for all of the confusion regarding processes
[06:01] <Kamion> he looks fine to me as universe uploader on the basis of bugzilla work, but since mdz already mentioned that I'd really rather have a packaging-based ack
[06:01] <ogra> sabdfl crimsun, while we're at it ?
[06:01] <sabdfl> ill review mako's email and post a final draft, and email for comments
[06:01] <elmo> did we do treenaks?
[06:01] <elmo> or does he need to be here?
[06:01] <ogra> he cant :(
[06:01] <sabdfl> doesn't need to e here if he has seconds
[06:01] <ogra> i vote for him
[06:02] <ogra> he has already done debian work....
[06:02] <sabdfl> any votes for crimsun?
[06:02] <zul> dholbach: yay!
[06:02] <ogra> haggai ?
[06:02] <mdz> I thought we were considering Treenaks
[06:02] <zul> wohoo...lunch time
[06:02] <haggai> re crimsun, I had a couple of queries but I think he'll be ok for universe
[06:02] <ogra> absolutely...
[06:03] <sabdfl> haggai: would prefer a full-confidence vote, or abstention
[06:03] <sabdfl> take the time to be sure
[06:03] <sabdfl> ogra's sure :-)
[06:03] <haggai> ok I'd better abstain then until the next mail exchange is done
[06:03] <mako> sabdfl: sounds good.. look over the notes for the meeting too if you haven't.. we spent about an hour going over details as a group.. most of things there are there for a reason.. so for substantial changes, it's maybe worthing pinging one/many of us :)
[06:03] <sabdfl> mako: i will
[06:03] <mdz> is there another second for Treenaks?
[06:04] <ogra> now we lost trenaks again ?
[06:04] <ajmitch> haggai: do you want me to email you urls for some of my packages?
[06:04] <Kamion> Treenaks++
[06:04] <ogra> yay
[06:04] <haggai> ajmitch: yes please do
[06:04] <mdz> that's two (ogra and Kamion) for Treenaks/universe
[06:04] <sabdfl> who was the first for Treenaks?
[06:04] <sabdfl> i thought ogra was for crimsun
[06:04] <Keybuk> I'll certainly second Treenaks
[06:04] <mako> sabdfl: there are a couple little additions we agreed to at the meeting i wrote up in the summary but didn't do yet.. if you're not going to work on it right now, i can do a few of those
[06:04] <sabdfl> ok, welcome in absentia, Treenaks
[06:04] <ogra> sabdfl: for the record: Treenaks ++
[06:05] <sabdfl> mako: go for it, i need to drive home, will check it out then
[06:05] <sabdfl> ok, crimsun?
[06:05] <mako> sabdfl: ok cool
[06:06] <sabdfl> crimsun: what areas have you worked on, and what packaging experience can you point us at?
[06:06] <Kamion>  /whois crimsun --real-name
[06:06] <sabdfl> any of the TB / CC / MOTU guys worked with you or reviewed pacakges?
[06:06] <ogra> crimsun is audio/alsa specialist and i'd like to have him aboard for this ...
[06:06] <haggai> I have reviewed 1 package so far
[06:06] <sabdfl> audio  / alsa is definitely a place we need expertise
[06:06] <mdz> crimsun has been active in Bugzilla; I can certainly recommend him for membership
[06:07] <sabdfl> but it's also main... and low level
[06:07] <mdz> I have no information about packaging
[06:07] <ogra> sabdfl: we are still talking about universe, or not ?
[06:07] <Kamion> I thought I remembered approving crimsun for membership. Do we have a list of who's been approved for what somewhere, please?
[06:07] <sabdfl> ok, he's afk and has no seconds for uploading
[06:07] <mdz> Kamion: there's a member list in the wiki
[06:08] <ogra> Kamion: crimsun was approved as member already
[06:08] <sivang> Kamion: wiki/UbuntuMembers
[06:08] <sabdfl> ok, i think we are done
[06:08] <sabdfl> any other business?
[06:08] <Keybuk> one thing I'd like to bring up, while TB, elmo and sabdfl are here: @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses for MOTU/uploaders etc.  do we want to do that?
[06:08] <sabdfl> YES!
[06:08] <Kamion> mdz: crimsun was approved according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-01-25.html, but is not in that list; perhaps he hasn't yet signed CoC?
[06:08] <mdz> absolutely
[06:09] <Kamion> Keybuk: hell yeah
[06:09] <Keybuk> and what about members?
[06:09] <Kamion> I thought that was the whole point
[06:09] <mdz> yes
[06:09] <sabdfl> yes on members too
[06:09] <Keybuk> are we doing that, and I just missed it?  or hasn't it been put in place yet?
[06:09] <ogra> not yet 
[06:09] <mdz> elmo: any admin issues with doing so?
[06:09] <sabdfl> the mail system works, not sure if we have a process to create the accounts
[06:10] <sivang> yay! u.c address for the changlogs :)
[06:10] <elmo> the userdir-ldap system isn't as well hooked up as I'd like but, basically n
[06:10] <haggai> what about people.u.c/~user ?  That would be useful
[06:10] <elmo> o
[06:10] <sabdfl> i've reservations about shell accounts
[06:11] <sabdfl> elmo?
[06:11] <haggai> even for maintainers?
[06:11] <elmo> me too, fairly strong ones
[06:11] <mdz> a member-writable WebDAV would be nice
[06:11] <mdz> as an alternative to shells
[06:11] <sabdfl> that sounds doable
[06:11] <Keybuk> yeah, dav would be cool; could thom wave some apache2 love for it easily?
[06:11] <mdz> that does require authentication somehow, though
[06:11] <sabdfl> what about rw sftp? elmo is that secure?
[06:12] <mdz> currently, members have no requirement to authenticate themselves
[06:12] <sabdfl> in the cracking sense, not the crypto sense
[06:12] <mdz> they don't even need to have a key
[06:12] <smurfix> sabdfl: should be if you set the shell to sftpd
[06:12] <Kamion> sftp is a subsystem, not a daemon
[06:12] <elmo> Kamion: command limiting to sftp works tho right?
[06:13] <Kamion> elmo: I'm not sure if that's possible
[06:13] <elmo> oh, it's possible, we do internally, I don't know how effective it is tho
[06:13] <sabdfl> i'm happy if elmo can find a way that satisfies him w.r.t. local security
[06:13] <Kamion> there's sftp-server which implements that, but it's not intended to be invoked directly (see its changelog)
[06:13] <smurfix> Kamion: that's hat I meant. :-/
[06:13] <mdz> doesn't sftp support chroot?
[06:13] <Kamion> er, man page
[06:13] <smurfix> what
[06:13] <sabdfl> also, on a suitable machine
[06:13] <Kamion> mdz: if openssh upstream accepted the chroot patch, I'd be happy with it; right now I'm not
[06:14] <sabdfl> Keybuk: thanks for bringing it up, v good point, glad to get the u.com emails rocking
[06:14] <sabdfl> elmo, your call as to whether / how to offer ~user
[06:14] <sabdfl> any other business?
[06:14] <Keybuk> I noticed a lack of it in catching up on changes, and thought "hey up, we should do that!"
[06:14] <elmo> sabdfl: is this forwarding only or imaps too?
[06:14] <mdz> forwarding only, I hope
[06:14] <sabdfl> elmo: your call, pref fwding only
[06:15] <elmo> ok
[06:15] <sivang> forwarding only should be enough I suppose
[06:15] <ogra> else, please make it selectable...
[06:15] <mdz> can we call this techmunity bouncil meeting to a close?
[06:15] <sabdfl> mjg59: howdy
[06:15] <sabdfl> any other business?
[06:15] <sabdfl> done
[06:15] <sabdfl> thanks all
[06:15] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[06:18] <sivang> just letting people here now, I just now completed my first upload -  a new g-s-t pkg :) 
[06:18] <ajmitch> sivang: great :)
[06:18] <dholbach> sivang: GREAT! :-)
[06:18] <sabdfl> erm, isn't that main?
[06:19] <sivang> sabdfl: pitti is the sponser :-))
[06:19] <sabdfl> ah, ok :-)
[06:19] <seb128> (I've reviewed the changes too)
[06:19] <sivang> I should have said , "uploaded"
[06:19] <seb128> good work :)
[06:19] <sivang> with the double quotes
[06:19] <sabdfl> thanks seb128
[06:19] <pitti> I took some nitpicking, but now the package looks really good
[06:20] <mako> sivang: that's awesome :)
[06:20] <ogra> sivang: so its about time to become a MOTU ;)
[06:20] <sivang> sabdfl: you missed a beat there ha? ;-)
[06:20] <sabdfl> yup
[06:21] <sabdfl> "i've just uploaded linux-kernel..."
[06:21] <fabbione> eh?
[06:21] <pitti> who cares about _that_ one...
[06:21] <ogra> sabdfl: new universe package ?
[06:21] <sivang> sabdfl: hhehe
[06:21] <ogra> sabdfl: are you going for MOTU ?
[06:22] <dholbach> *giggle*
[06:22] <sabdfl> dholbach: yr'welcome, thanks for playing here
[06:22] <dholbach> sabdfl: its a pleasure :-)
[06:22] <sabdfl> fabbione: i thought you *liked* bk
[06:22] <sabdfl> cheers all
[06:22] <fabbione> i actually do :-)
[06:23] <ogra> mako: did you get your serbian sentence translated yesterday ?
[06:24] <dholbach> ogra: he did... it read something like "please send me a CD too" :-)
[06:24] <ajmitch> almost time for bed, the sun is just creeping over the horizon :)
[06:24] <ogra> dholbach: i know... i gave it to my serbian chef translator today....
[06:25] <dholbach> ogra: wow... how many people do they have employed?
[06:26] <ajmitch> ogra: ok, got a couple of packages polished up a bit :)
[06:26] <ogra> who ? ish ?
[06:26] <ogra> ajmitch: i'll look at them tonight...
[06:26] <dholbach> ogra: sounds like a lot really - even a "chief serbian translator" ;-)
[06:27] <ajmitch> ogra: yeah, I have to upload them first
[06:27] <ajmitch> to somewhere with bandwidth
[06:27] <ogra> dholbach: we got 900 empl currently :(
[06:27] <ogra> ajmitch: ok
[06:30] <ajmitch> bbl
[06:30] <dholbach> seb128: btb@d.o just waits for atk1.9 to hit debian, so he can gtkmm in there too, great news, hm? :-)
[06:33] <seb128> dholbach: I've uploaded atk 1.9 this morning
[06:33] <dholbach> seb128: rocking :-)
[06:38] <Treenaks> OK guys, cool :)

[06:39] <Treenaks> I really need to talk to my boss about this time thing again
[06:56] <mako> if anyone wants to take a look over the newly merged, fixedup page before sabdfl gets to it: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewMembersMaintainersDraft
[07:00] <Treenaks> 8)
[07:11] <smurfix> mako: - fix the WikiLinks in the last section
[07:11] <smurfix> mako: - point to a list of maintainers
[07:18] <mako> smurfix: ah, ok
[07:18] <mako> smurfix: thanks
[11:05] <dholbach> good night everyone