[12:00] <thom> mdz: well, that was a great game
[12:00] <pitti> bluefoxicy: all other things work for me
[12:00] <mdz> thom: for you, perhaps
[12:00] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  it kills various xscreensavers too (you get a black screen), also I had it kill qemu
[12:01] <pitti> hmm, obviously I don't use these things :-)
[12:01] <thom> mdz: you're not a poor misguided arsenal fan? 
[12:01] <pitti> bluefoxicy: you mean your mail about testing the kernel?
[12:01] <mdz> thom: no, I couldn't care either way, but I was surrounded by arsenal fans :-)
[12:01] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  does pitti  yeah
[12:01] <thom> heh!
[12:01] <mdz> pouting and crying
[12:01] <bluefoxicy> pitti: yeah
[12:01] <thom> as it happens, so was i. very funny
[12:01] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  does /usr/lib/xscreensaver/bouncingcow work for you?
[12:02] <pitti> bluefoxicy: yes, pretty well
[12:02] <bluefoxicy> hmm.  ok.
[12:03] <thom> mdz: they have arsenal fans in LA?
[12:03] <pitti> bluefoxicy: thanks for the testing, btw
[12:03] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  Also, have you tried libsafe?  I just added /lib/libsafe.so.2 to /etc/ld.so.preload and rebooted, cat says it's got libsafe linked it.
[12:03] <mdz> thom: yes, we have real live English people too
[12:03] <pitti> bluefoxicy: however, we can't put patched binutils in hoary right now
[12:03] <pitti> bluefoxicy: never heard about libsafe
[12:04] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  libsafe prevents overflows from happening if they leave the current stack frame; this will stop large overflows, and should make many overflow periods too small to insert shellcode or stack frame pointers for ret2libc attacks
[12:04] <thom> mdz: i hadn't realised getting rid of arsenal fans was a growth industry. good to know, anyway
[12:05] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  problem is that it (i think) still lets enough overflow happen to tank the SFP and return pointer, meaning exploits that SSP will stop can still happen if they load their shellcode on the heap (i.e. in a PNG image exploiting the PNG overflows, etc)
[12:05] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  libsafe is in universe
[12:06] <bluefoxicy> just apt-get it and add /lib/libsafe.so.2 to /etc/ld.so.preload, then try `cat /proc/self/maps | grep libsafe` to see if it's there
[12:12] <Kamion> mdz: hm, well that might help ...
[12:12] <Kamion> night all
[12:13] <thom> night dude
[12:13] <pitti> Night Kamion 
[12:13] <ogra> night
[12:15] <ogra> pitti: any news about the hal/udev bug ?
[12:15] <pitti> no, sorry
[12:18] <ogra> i tried out stopping only hal manually before the install/upgrade of the package... didnt help, the funny thing is, if i do it right after boot on a console (without being logged in to gdm, but gdm running) it doesnt occur
[12:18] <ogra> pitti ^^
[12:19] <pitti> ogra: right, I already tried that too (on smurfix' machine)
[12:19] <ogra> ah, ok
[12:20] <gernika> Hello, I run an irc logging site.  I have heard that the #ubuntu channel is a very helpful channel and am interested in logging that channel.
[12:22] <jbailey> WTF? 
[12:22] <ogra> jbailey: ?
[12:22] <jbailey> For some crackheaded reason bugzilla took me to another bug number.
[12:22] <AndyR> evening from UK
[12:22] <gernika> would that be ok?
[12:22] <jbailey> ogra: Don't mind me, I just posted a patch on the wrong bug number.
[12:22] <ogra> heh
[12:22] <Mithrandir> jbailey: it does that after you have edited a bug.  Really icky.
[12:23] <gernika> here is an example log: http://www.loglibrary.com/62/
[12:24] <ogra> gernika: if you want to log the conversations in #ubuntu, you should ask the people whose conversations you want to log if they think its ok....
[12:24] <jbailey> I wonder how many other times i've done that and just not noticed. =(
[12:24] <ogra> i.e. ask in #ubuntu ;)
[12:24] <gernika> ogra: i did, but they told me to come here :)
[12:25] <ogra> gernika: i personally have no problems if you or anybody else logs my conversations in #ubuntu....
[12:26] <robertj> I think by virtue of being on irc you consent to being logged
[12:26] <AndyR> would it be best to put logging message in topic?
[12:27] <gernika> AndyR, I think that would be good.
[12:27] <Mithrandir> The channel is already publically logged --  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[12:27] <Mithrandir> it's noted on the wiki somewhere.
[12:28] <HrdwrBoB> AndyR: I think the topic has enough stuff as it is
[12:28] <gernika> I provide indexed searching as well as some other useful features, if you don't mind double logging.
[12:29] <AndyR> HrdwrBoB, fair point
[12:29] <ogra> topics tend to grow....
[12:30] <gernika> How about if I mention it somewhere in the wiki?
[12:32] <_mvo_> hey jdub_ 
[12:33] <AndyR> any developers living in united kingdom?
[12:33] <AndyR> unlikely :))
[12:34] <AndyR> unlucky even
[12:34] <thom> pffft
[12:34] <AndyR> im in southampton
[12:34] <thom> ah. my brother is at uni there
[12:34] <thom> at the institute
[12:34] <AndyR> oh ok
[12:34] <robertj> ooh, Puzzle Pirates is being a good Open Source citizen
[12:35] <robertj> it provides a front page link to the linux client and puts a .desktop file on your desktop
[12:36] <AndyR> thom, comp sci?
[12:36] <thom> AndyR: my brother? tourism management
[12:37] <Mithrandir> thom: "cattle herding"?
[12:37] <thom> Mithrandir: "skiving"
[12:41] <mxpxpod> thom: have you made any more netmanager packages?
[12:41] <thom> mxpxpod: not recently, been a tad busy
[12:41] <mxpxpod> heh, ok
[12:41] <mxpxpod> just wondering
[12:53] <lamont> aclocal: configure.in: 72: macro `AM_DISABLE_STATIC' not found in library
[12:53] <lamont> aclocal: configure.in: 74: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library
[12:53] <lamont> hrmpf.  cyrus-sasl not happy
[12:57] <_mvo_> lamont: *grr* it build in my pbuilder :(
[12:57] <tseng> can anyone reupload a miffed build-dep for me?
[12:57] <tseng> it will be a few days before i can get upload, web of trust needs worked out
[12:58] <mdz> tseng: deb-src ?
[12:58] <tseng> mdz: didnt upload a source package for it, i can make it for you right quick
[12:58] <mdz> tseng: you tested this one in a chroot, I hope ;-)
[12:59] <lamont> _mvo_: pbuilder is evil
[12:59] <tseng> hmm no i read the config scripts to dep checks
[12:59] <lamont> since it picks the wrong build-deps
[12:59] <tseng> ill do the chroot thing
[01:00] <lamont> _mvo_: specifically, pbuilder picks the last of any | lists in the build-depends, (our) sbuild picks the first (available)
[01:01] <azeem> _mvo_: why did you remove libtool?
[01:01] <elmo> azeem: libtool1.4's considered harmful
[01:01] <_mvo_> azeem: elmo said it all :)
[01:02] <azeem> and automake1.4 isn't?
[01:02] <mdz> build-depending on libtool in general isn't particularly sane
[01:02] <mdz> of course automake1.4 is
[01:02] <elmo> hmm, it's in main tho
[01:02] <elmo> boggle, directly seeded too
[01:03] <mdz> boggle indeed
[01:04] <mdz> but it's build-depended upon by tons of stuff anyway
[01:04] <elmo> yeah, but can I remove the direct seeding regardless?
[01:04] <mdz> definitely
[01:04] <azeem> so libtool gets into the usual pbuilder chroot, or what?
[01:04] <mdz> and the other old versions of stuff anyway
[01:04] <mdz> automake1.7
[01:04] <elmo> azeem: probably a timing thing
[01:05] <mdz> automake1.8
[01:05] <azeem> or that
[01:06] <mdz> autoconf2.13??
[01:06] <mdz> gnome-common??
[01:06] <mdz> how did this crap get in there?
[01:08] <elmo> all purged, added automake1.9
[01:09] <pvh> Is dmix anywhere on the Ubuntu horizon?
[01:09] <elmo> removing gcc, it's pulled in by build-essential and the comment's already outdated
[01:13] <elmo> do we want the duplication of ship and seed or can I clean it up while I'm here?
[01:14] <elmo> meh, ship and supported
[01:17] <elmo> and can I add baz to ship? nm, in fact, I'll just mail
[01:22] <mdz> pvh: not currently, no
[01:23] <mdz> elmo: unsure about ship/supported duplication, ship is a bit special
[01:25] <elmo> mdz: I'm fairly sure it's a bug, it's partial
[01:25] <elmo> but I'll cc colin on themail
[01:26] <mjg59> thom: Ping?
[01:29] <pvh> mdz: Just lack of interest, or are there technical obstacles?
[01:31] <mdz> pvh: it has come up several times, and the result of the discussion in Mataro was to go with polypaudio, following GNOME
[01:31] <mdz> dmix doesn't seem to offer much in the way of incentive over polypaudio
[01:32] <mdz> mjg59: all thinkpads, or particular ones?
[01:33] <mjg59> mdz: The ATI ones
[01:33] <pvh> mdz: I'll look into it. Thanks.
[01:34] <mdz> yay
[01:38] <tseng> oh, this chroot business rocks++
[01:39] <mjg59> Hrm. Trying to deal with PCI capabilities is slightly sucky.
[01:39] <srbaker> yaye
[01:41] <dholbach> re
[01:41] <mjg59> Anyone know of code for dealing with reading PCI capabilities in userspace?
[01:43] <infinity> mjg59 : lspci?
[01:44] <mjg59> infinity: Hrm. Yeah, I guess it must do.
[01:44] <infinity> mjg59 : Assuming by "capabilities", you man stuff like:
[01:44] <infinity> Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping+ SERR- FastB2B-
[01:44] <infinity> Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
[01:45] <mjg59> Yeah, that's the stuff
[01:46] <pitti> Night everybody!
[01:46] <srbaker> what seems to be the most popular lappy for ubuntufolk?  X series thinkpad?  or ibook?
[01:46] <mjg59> X40, for the most part
[01:46] <mjg59> /* Here we fork() and exec() the lspci command to look for the Radeon hardware \address. */
[01:46] <mjg59> ARGH HOLY JESUS NO
[01:46] <srbaker> mjg59, well, i'm not rich.  i can only afford a used one.  so an X2? or X3?
[01:47] <mjg59> The newer the better, really
[01:47] <infinity> I've not had issues with any Thinkpads from the last 5 years or so.
[01:47] <infinity> But newer is always better.
[01:52] <daniels> mdz: pong
[01:53] <mdz> daniels: wanted to talk to you about xserver-xorg template text
[01:53] <mdz> since the mode selection dialog is only displayed if the probe fails, I think it deserves some explanatory text
[01:53] <mdz> "Unable to automatically determine the capabilities of your monitor, please tell me:" or similar
[01:53] <daniels> mdz: reckon we can get that translated in time for hoary?
[01:54] <mdz> this might necessitate a separate template to be used if the probe fails, as opposed to probing being disabled
[01:54] <mdz> yes
[01:58] <elmo> jbailey: the point about libnet-snmp-perl was that the snmp plugin is C
[01:59] <daniels> mdz: ok, i've tomboyed it
[01:59] <jbailey> elmo: Yes, and two utilities are in Perl.  I wrote in the bug which ones they are.
[01:59] <infinity> Okay, i just fell further in love with IBM.  They finally let you completely configure a Thinkpad online.
[01:59] <daniels> mjg59: are you reading radeontool again?
[02:00] <elmo> jbailey: so you did, sorry
[02:00] <mjg59> daniels: Yes
[02:00] <mdz> jbailey: can you upload now?
[02:00] <tseng> mdz: tested in a clean chroot. http://smarterits.com/~brandon/tomboy/
[02:00] <mjg59> daniels: I decided to do this in userspace, rather than hack up a kernel driver
[02:00] <mjg59> Works, too - I got a T42 down to 0.5W
[02:00] <jbailey> mdz: I sent off the email to elmo this morning.  I figured it was polite to wait a day before nudging him. =)
[02:00] <daniels> mjg59: nice!
[02:01] <elmo> yeah, I'm doing it before I go to bed
[02:02] <mdz> tseng: uploaded
[02:02] <tseng> mdz: thanks muchly
[02:03] <tseng> is there a quick way to clean my chroot for testing again?
[02:03] <tseng> i followed DebootstrapChroot on wiki.
[02:03] <mdz> rm -rf and make a new one, save a tarball of it before deflowering it the next time
[02:04] <tseng> ok, thanks.
[02:04] <srbaker> i have two laptops.  p3 laptops.  i'm going to sell/trade those to get either an iBook or an X20/30
[02:06] <srbaker> a tecra 8100 750/192/20G, and a thinkpad a20m 500/128/20G
[02:06] <dilinger> tseng: btw, dunno if you saw.. i unleashed -as3 yesterday
[02:06] <tseng> dilinger: saw it :P
[02:06] <tseng> looked over it briefly, didnt have time to really digest
[02:07] <tseng> i have a hard time with the changelog format
[02:07] <mjg59> ARGH.
[02:07] <jbailey> dilinger: -as3, like the "kernels that don't suck" round that you were talking about doing?
[02:08] <tseng> jbailey: indeed
[02:12] <elmo> amu: ?
[02:15] <amu> yep?
[02:16] <daniels> holy shit, they really were serious
[02:16] <daniels> new major version of fglrx scheduled for release next week
[02:16] <elmo> amu: is kiosktool yours, or are you sponsoring it?
[02:17] <srbaker> does the x40 have accelerated video?
[02:17] <amu> elmo: mine
[02:17] <daniels> srbaker: yes
[02:18] <srbaker> daniels, so if i plug a monitor into it, the cursor won't skip across the screen, right?
[02:18] <daniels> srbaker: huh?
[02:18] <tseng> you mean xinerama?
[02:18] <srbaker> daniels, on my friend's T22, when she plugs a monitor into it, there's a mouse trail.
[02:18] <srbaker> daniels, the mouse cursor skips around
[02:19] <daniels> er, that's probably just a bug in the driver
[02:19] <daniels> then again, radeons are known to have weird cursor limitations
[02:20] <daniels> i get massive, massive artifacting if I scroll the bottom fo my LCD (i have an uneven mergedfb)
[02:20] <daniels> and we can't fix that, that's a card limitation
[02:21] <srbaker> she's using a docking station, and replacing her desktop with it
[02:24] <elmo> amu: ok, sorry then dude
[02:27] <elmo> would it be particularly evil to rip out "compatability" code for something like fsh and just leave it with stuff that works for python2.4?
[02:27] <srbaker> how much battery time do you get on an x40?
[02:29] <daniels> srbaker: lots and lots
[02:29] <amu> elmo: np 
[02:29] <srbaker> daniels, how many hours?
[02:29] <srbaker> i know what ibm says.  and it sounds unreasonable
[02:30] <srbaker> ibm says 5hrs.  i know that requires lunar alignment
[02:32] <daniels> srbaker: with the 4-cell battery, you get about 6 with wifi on
[02:32] <srbaker> whoa.
[02:32] <daniels> srbaker: er, with the 8-cell
[02:32] <daniels> the 4-cell is about 2.5, apparently
[02:32] <srbaker> oh.  is that the jumbo battery?
[02:32] <daniels> extended life puts you in 11 territory
[02:32] <srbaker> coooooooool
[02:32] <daniels> not really jumbo; it sticks out the back a bit, but it's not like awedge underneath (the extended life kinda wedges underneath)
[02:32] <daniels> the 8-cell is standard in australia
[02:32] <srbaker> that's what i want. an x22 and an extended life battery
[02:33] <infinity> srbaker : Believe IBM (and daniels)... I used an X series for a while, and it blew me away.
[02:34] <infinity> Though, if I was shopping today, I'd probably rather have a T series.  But I don't walk around with laptops much.
[02:34] <amu> srbaker: the trick is like that, if you want a working X, just buy the same laptop as daniels has :)  

[02:35] <infinity> And if you want good ACPI, buy the same laptop as mjg59?
[02:37] <srbaker> hahah
[02:37] <srbaker> infinity, i want one that i can plug in when i go to bed
[02:37] <srbaker> when i wake up, i want a fully charged battery that i don't have to worry about
[02:37] <srbaker> and, i want a docking station at home
[02:37] <infinity> Docking stations are overrated.
[02:37] <srbaker> so, i'll get the extended life, and a 4-cell just in case
[02:38] <srbaker> infinity, i prefer desktop (wireless) keyboard and mouse when i'm home
[02:38] <infinity> Have you owned an IBM laptop before?
[02:38] <tseng> i dont need a docking station for that
[02:38] <tseng> i plug in a usb receiver and bam
[02:38] <infinity> After using IBM laptop keyboards, I prefer them to 99% of desktop keyboards.
[02:38] <amu> infinity: hehe 
[02:38] <srbaker> infinity, yeah.  i had an A20m.  the keyboard was awesome.
[02:39] <infinity> Though an external mouse can be nice on occasion.
[02:39] <srbaker> infinity, but i pound on the keys somethign fierce.  laptop keyboards don't last long for me
[02:43] <elmo> sigh, that took way too bloody long
[02:44] <elmo> jbailey: done
[02:45] <amu> elmo: how it works, i need a sync of kalyxo, should i tell you, fire in the hole?  
[02:46] <jbailey> elmo: Thanks!  Now I just need to figure out how we store the arch bits for chewing on the Debian package and I'll upload the nagios plugins package.
[02:46] <elmo> jbailey: eh, arch bits?
[02:47] <jbailey> elmo: Don't we keep the diffs from Debian packages in arch?  I thought I read that on the wiki.
[02:47] <elmo> jbailey: not yet, not our changes
[02:47] <elmo> for distro stuff you can just upload, no arch stuff needed
[02:48] <jbailey> Ah, okay.  How do we keep those from getting overwritten when new versions are imported?
[02:48] <lamont> jbailey: we don't import - we bitch in bugzilla
[02:48] <lamont> or rather, the merge-o-matic does
[02:48] <jbailey> *lol*
[02:49] <lamont> jbailey: will be much nicer once the infrastructure is really there and we can do it easier...
[02:49] <lamont> and if the change is one that should be pushed to debian, then be sure to file the bug in debian's bts, or update the existing bug with the patch
[02:50] <lamont> actually submitted to debian
[02:50] <lamont> but now I'm running out the door before I'm late...
[02:50] <lamont> bbl
[02:50] <jbailey> 'kay.  Do I note in bugzilla that I've posted to patch to the Debian BTS?
[02:52] <elmo> jbailey: probably a good plan - you know where to put that right?
[02:52] <elmo> i.e. patches.ubuntu.com
[02:54] <jbailey> elmo: Yup, I see it here under BugTracking
[02:55] <elmo> k, cool
[02:55] <jbailey> elmo: Thanks. =)
[03:10] <elmo> amu: sorry, forgot to answer.. err.. sync from where unstable?
[03:10] <elmo> amu: if so, and it's universe, just ask me on irc or mail me if I'm not around on irc
[03:11] <thully> is array 4 still set for tomorrow?
[03:14] <dholbach> now i'll really go to bed - bye
[03:14] <tseng> bye.
[03:15] <dholbach> bye tseng  :-)
[03:22] <amu> elmo: np, sending a mail ...  
[03:22] <amu> daniels: did you added dbus-qt? 
[03:23] <daniels> amu: yeah, it should already be in 
[03:25] <amu> daniels: cool, thanks a lot!
[03:26] <daniels> no worries
[03:29] <amu> daniels: hmm no it isnt :)  
[03:30] <daniels> amu: weird.  will take a look at it after lunch, but it should've gone in with dbus 0.23.
[03:31] <mjg59> Anyone around here with an ATI-based machine?
[03:31] <daniels> mjg59: 'sup
[03:31] <mjg59> (And willing to try something that may well require a reboot)
[03:31] <mjg59> daniels: Can you:
[03:31] <mjg59> a) grab http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/radeontool.tar.bz2 and make it
[03:32] <mjg59> b) from a text console, do radeontool power off && sleep 5 && radeontool power on && vbetool post
[03:32] <mjg59> c) tell me what happens
[03:32] <mdz> jbailey: yes, the long-term vision is to use arch very widely, but the infrastructure isn't there yet
[03:32] <amu> daniels: in this case you should  remove --disable-qt :)  
[03:33] <mjg59> (Note that (c) may well be It fucks everything up badly)
[03:33] <mjg59> daniels: This sets various registers to reduce power consumption, and then puts the card in D3
[03:34] <mjg59> Oh, yeah, you probably don't want to do this if you're running radeonfb
[03:34] <daniels> mjg59: sure
[03:38] <daniels> mjg59: radeontool power off ran for 30 seconds without seemingly doing anything
[03:38] <daniels> want an strace?
[03:38] <daniels> (the console was still alive, it still updated)
[03:39] <marcin_ant> hi - does anyone (excluding jdub) here know something about Website Look'n'Feel Competition?
[03:39] <mjg59> daniels: If you could, yeah
[03:47] <daniels> mjg59: loops endlessly in get_pm_cap
[03:49] <mjg59> daniels: Ah, right
[03:49] <mdz> lamont: does hoary-live-ia64.iso boot and/or work?
[04:05] <mdz> an ode to grub:
[04:05] <mdz> GRUB WHY DO YOU SUCK SO MUCH
[04:05] <mdz>  - by mdz
 because i can.  look at my competition.
[04:20] <stackpopper> How commeth the ppc64 port?
[04:28] <mdz> stackpopper: no one is working on one at the moment
[04:29] <infinity> If I had a ppc64 machine..
[04:30] <stackpopper> infinity, So the ppc64 hoary release is just an online myth?
[04:30] <infinity> Well, hoary will run on ppc64 machines, but with a 32-bit userland.
[04:30] <infinity> So, it's a half-myth?
[04:31] <stackpopper> noted.
[04:31] <infinity> (where is this myth perpetuated?)
[04:31] <stackpopper> I can't remember
[04:31] <stackpopper> probably irc
[04:31] <stackpopper> Do any of you live in Scotland?
[04:31] <infinity> Many live close enough...
[04:31] <infinity> Well, closer than I.
[04:31] <stackpopper> How long would it take to port?
[04:31] <stackpopper> At a guess\
[04:32] <infinity> Depends on if I have any weird compilation issues, iff gcc's ppc64 backend is up to snuff, and how fast my buildd is.
[04:32] <mdz> IRC never lies
[04:32] <infinity> Assuming best case for all three, a matter of weeks.
[04:32] <infinity> Assuming worst case, a couple months?
[04:33] <stackpopper> That isn't too bad
[04:33] <mdz> yeah, it's mostly a matter of ppc64 hardware being comparatively rare
[04:33] <mdz> if you have a ppc64 system and would like to help with the port...*hint*
[04:33] <infinity> I keep trying to get my hands ona G5, but my bank account keeps saying "no".
[04:33] <stackpopper> Well, if the timing was right
[04:33] <mdz> G5s want 32-bit userland anyway
[04:34] <stackpopper> I can probably *help* somewhat
[04:34] <infinity> I was under the impression you could run them pure64 just fine.
[04:34] <mdz> you can, but you get better performance from 64/32
[04:34] <infinity> Or, did you mean that "G5 users should want 32 bit userlands"?
[04:34] <infinity> Which is likely true.
[04:35] <stackpopper> Why?
[04:35] <infinity> Yeah.  The 64 bit userland has no real gain on G5s, but a G5 would be fine for the porting effort.
[04:35] <infinity> 64-bit userland == bloated memory and register consumption.
[04:35] <infinity> If you don't need it, you don't want it.
[04:35] <stackpopper> noted.
[04:35] <infinity> Same reason people rarely complain that UltraSparcs use a 32-bit userland.
[04:35] <infinity> (Though they sometimes do)
[04:35] <stackpopper> :P
[04:36] <mdz> infinity: "want" rather than "need"
[04:36] <mdz> power5, though, is supposedly a different story
[04:36] <stackpopper> interesting
[04:36] <infinity> Less register-starved, probably.
[04:36] <mdz> though those are even harder to come by
[04:36] <stackpopper> I assume those babies will end up in the next wave of mac's
[04:37] <infinity> But, any porting effort done on a G5 in pure64 should be happy running on a power5, so I'd be happy porting on the "wrong" hardware.
[04:37] <infinity> Though, testing on a power5 would be nice.
[04:37] <infinity> stackpopper : No.. The Motorola CPUs and IBM CPUs are reasonably forked.
[04:37] <infinity> stackpopper : The POWER series has a different target audience.
[04:37] <toresbe> 
[04:38] <infinity> Apple can talk all they want about Macs being "supercomputers", but compared to their cousins at IBM, they're pathetic.
[04:38] <stackpopper> Isn't the CPU in the G5's just an IBM POWER4?
[04:38] <infinity> No.
[04:39] <mdz> related
[04:39] <mdz> but not at all identical
[04:39] <infinity> Sure, they're all related, back to the first PPC.
[04:40] <mdz> well, some closer than others :-)
[04:40] <infinity> The G4 doesn't have Altivec, however, has (generally) larger caches, has more registers (I believe), and is most likely manufactured on a different process, etc.
[04:40] <infinity> s/G4/POWER4/
[04:40] <mdz> our -power4 kernel runs on G5 and power4, but not on powerpc
[04:41] <stackpopper> noted
[04:41] <stackpopper> Do any of the later snapshots install flawlessly on the imac's as of yet?
[04:42] <stackpopper> Or should I say, is it an issue which will be resolved by the next release?
[04:42] <mdz> Warty runs fine on imacs
[04:42] <mdz> at least some of them
[04:43] <stackpopper> won't install on this one. :(
[04:43] <mdz> did you look for known bugs, or file a new one?
[04:44] <stackpopper> I haven't had time.
[04:44] <stackpopper> but I do now.
[04:45] <mdz> please do try a daily, then
[04:45] <mdz> where did the install fail?
[04:46] <stackpopper> when loading
[04:46] <stackpopper> some crazy firmware spew then it freezes
[04:47] <infinity> Well, whattayaknow?... IBM does make exactly one machine with a G5 in it. :)
[04:48] <stackpopper> :/
[04:48] <stackpopper> nada in the bug database
[04:48] <stackpopper> there is a reference to my problem in the forums
[04:48] <stackpopper> however, it is a crappy report
[04:48] <stackpopper> and help given was for the sake of helping
[04:53] <mdz> stackpopper: when booting the install CD?
[04:53] <stackpopper> that's right. 
[04:54] <mdz> it should be a quick test to see if it's better now, then ;-)
[04:54] <stackpopper> I'll download that snapshot you released recently when I get into the city
[04:55] <mdz> yeah, a live CD test should do fine for that
[04:55] <toresbe> infinity: Do they?
[04:56] <toresbe> infinity: which machine is that?
[04:56] <stackpopper> :)
[04:56] <toresbe> Linux is boring, everything is so ...predictable and ... it works
[04:56] <stackpopper> yeh, it is getting boring these days
[04:57] <stackpopper> very boring
[04:57] <toresbe> so I'm installing solaris 8 and IRIX
[04:57] <stackpopper> It used to be fun hacking your system together
[04:57] <toresbe>  not I get boring OS'es with support for everything
[04:57] <toresbe> stackpopper: if you're into hacking kernel stuff, mipslinux needs you ;)
[04:59] <dilinger> run the -mm tree
[04:59] <dilinger> lots of fun broken stuff to play w/
[05:01] <stackpopper> linux on the PSP would rule
[05:01] <stackpopper> especially if you could connect a keyboard/mouse to it
[05:01] <stackpopper> etc
[05:03] <mdz> jdub: gnome-bt?
[05:04] <jdub> mdz: not entirely happy with it, but it'll do
[05:07] <mdz> jdub: if there are tweaks you'd like to see made, maybe we can bounty the lot
[05:07] <mdz> meanwhile, I'm going to upload it
[05:07] <mdz> want to send a nice mail to the author telling him his package is in Ubuntu?
[05:15] <infinity> toresbe : The js20 blades have dual 970s (970 == G5, same deal)
[05:15] <toresbe> ah
[05:37] <thully> Hi - I just tried to install Ubuntu from 2/1 hoary shapshot and it installed, but Xorg won't start - is this a known issue?
[05:38] <crimsun> thully: where does it break?
[05:41] <thully> it won't configure Xorg - I get some message about a driver missing and it won't start
[05:41] <thully> Xorg -configure even fails
[05:45] <thully> Actually, it does configure using debconf but won't start - won't configure with Xorg -configure
[05:45] <thully> How do I look at recently closed bugs filed by me in Bugzilla?
[05:46] <crimsun> should be in your list of bugs
[05:46] <thully> no - only see open bugs
[05:47] <thully> any clue on the X stuff?  I'd hate array 4 to have this issue!
[05:50] <crimsun> thully: unfortunately I haven't tested 2005-02-01 snap, so I can't say for certain, but place your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log on http://pastebin.ca
[06:00] <lamont> mdz: the live CD has the cloop fs on it, but claims to be 'installer', and brings up the partitioner...
[06:00] <lamont> am I missing something?
[06:02] <thully_> just had connection problem
[06:03] <thully_> so, I'm still wondering - what's wrong with X?  debconf configures my card and then it complains about drivers when starting
[06:36] <sabdfl> Kamion: the cc is the right forum to deal with problems related to the code of conduct on lists. if we get another thread like that, i'd encourage any member of the cc to step in and ask the people involved to remind themselves of the code of conduct
[06:36] <daniels> thom: what are you actually trying to do here?
[06:37] <daniels> s/thom/thully/
[06:37] <daniels> and he's even gone, god
[06:38] <sabdfl> Kamion: failing that, if we have someone who won't respect that, let's raise it at a cc meeting (we can call a special one if it needs urgent attention) to discuss it, and then i'd be willing for the cc to ban someone who persisted in making a mess of it from the lists
[07:08] <mdz> lamont: weird
[07:10] <mdz> lamont: partman shouldn't even get unpacked on the live CD
[07:11] <mdz> lamont: ohh
[07:11] <mdz> lamont: I bet the boot loader magic hasn't been done for ia64
[07:11] <mdz> lamont: you need to pass a couple of parameters
[07:11] <fabbione> morning guys
[07:12] <mdz> lamont: casper/enable=true casper-udeb/snapshot/backing-file=/cdrom/casper/filesystem.cloop
[07:13] <daniels> mdz: next upload gets us xorg-on-livecd
[07:13] <daniels> fabbione: morning dude
[07:13] <mdz> daniels: wha?
[07:13] <fabbione> hi dani
[07:14] <daniels> mdz: the next time I upload xorg, the live CD will work *under* *qemu* (possibly a vital piece of missing information)
[07:15] <mdz> aha
[07:15] <mdz> speaking of which
[07:15] <mdz> I just did a test install on powerpc
[07:15] <mdz> and X seems to start, but the monitor never syncs
[07:16] <fabbione> what about a kernel meeting tuesday after the CC meeting?
[07:16] <mdz> it goes into power save mode
[07:16] <daniels> mdz: log and config as per usual
[07:16] <mdz> yeah, getting them
[07:16] <daniels> cheers
[07:16] <daniels> i'm pretty sure it was fixed in ubuntu12
[07:16] <daniels> (assuming your problem is what I think it is)
[07:16] <mdz> mailed
[07:16] <daniels> cheers, will check it out
[07:17] <mdz> (II) RADEON(0): Supported Future Video Modes:
[07:17] <mdz> whoa, this card supports modes that _don' t even exist yet_
[07:17] <infinity> Handy.
[07:22] <daniels> heh
[07:22] <daniels> that's a vesa thing
[07:23] <daniels> you can specify modes that are defined in the vesa spec, or you can specify resolution+depth+refresh modes in free-form, or specify detailed timings
[07:24] <daniels> mdz: what the fuck is wrong with that monitor?
[07:24] <daniels> is it actually 1:1, or is it just totally bong?
[07:24] <mdz> nothing, I'm using it right now
[07:24] <mdz> it's attached to a KVM is all
[07:24] <daniels> it looks like everything that came back via EDID is *comp ... oh
[07:24] <mdz> warty installed fine on this very machine, and it was happily running warty-upgraded-to-hoary until I decided to trash it tonight
[07:24] <daniels> dvi, or vga?
[07:24] <mdz> VGA
[07:25] <daniels> ah, it doesn't give us sync ranges
[07:25] <mdz> it also was fine with the hoary live CD
[07:25] <daniels> yeah, that's already fixed, and ubuntu13 will build on powerpc
[07:25] <mdz> at some point in the past
[07:25] <daniels> yah
[07:25] <daniels> it would've been fine with 6.8.1-1ubuntu10
[07:27] <daniels> your kvm is seriously wack, btw
[07:28] <mdz> it was cheap
[07:28] <mdz> there are two kinds of KVMs
[07:28] <mdz> wack and very very expensive
[07:28] <jdub> or wack and cheap? :)
[07:30] <toresbe> You know you're tired when you see letters in the IRC log
[07:31] <toresbe> I mean, as in, your eyes blur and you see ASCII art
[07:35] <jdub> amu: ping
[07:40] <mdz> fabbione: I don't think I will be able to attend the kernel meeting; if you think you will need me, let me know soon so that we can work something out
[07:41] <fabbione> mdz: don't worry about it. if you are happy with me evaluating a temporary team leader and you can stay in bed and enjoy :P
[07:46] <fabbione> same question as yesterday:
[07:46] <fabbione> - next kernel will break the ABI module loader <whatever thingy>
[07:46] <fabbione> is there anything sweet we want to drag in it?
[07:47] <infinity> "whatever thingy". :)
[07:48] <fabbione> please speak up now or be quite forever.. backport from 2.6.11 starts to be a royal pain
[07:49] <mdz> we can move to 2.6.11 for hoary if you think it's the right way to go
[07:50] <fabbione> mdz: there is no 2.6.11 yet, we are at rc2
[07:50] <fabbione> but they changed heaps load of code around
[07:50] <fabbione> and it starts to be more difficult to merge back
[07:50] <mdz> yes, I know :-P
[07:50] <mdz> but it is likely to release before hoary
[07:50] <fabbione> i am pretty sure it will
[07:50] <fabbione> BK PATCH]  Critical SCSI fixes for 2.6.11-rc2 <-
[07:51] <fabbione> stuff like that ;)
[07:51] <fabbione> that really makes my day!
[07:51] <fabbione> :P
[07:51] <fabbione> mdz: i would suggest we wait a bit and see
[07:51] <mdz> [BK PATCH]  New virtual memory manager
[07:51] <fabbione> changing major kernel at this point in time is not as timeconsuming as before
[07:52] <fabbione> given that i sorted patches as stolen_from_head and externals
[07:52] <mdz> yes, I saw
[07:52] <fabbione> at least i think i got all of them
[07:52] <fabbione> but in the worst case there are not that many external
[07:54] <fabbione> mdz: how happy would you be if i prepare a 2.6.11 packages?
[07:54] <mdz> sounds fine
[07:54] <fabbione> mdz: starting with a .orig.tar.gz from 2.6.10 and using incremental patches to go to a .11 status?
[07:55] <fabbione> clearly it means that when a real .11 will exists there will be a stolen_from_head_2.6.10-to_real-2.6.11.dpatch
[07:55] <fabbione> but i think that doesn't change anything to anybody
[07:55] <mdz> you could use a 2.6.11-rc .orig
[07:56] <fabbione> have been there... no thanks
[07:56] <mdz> 2.6.10->2.6.11rc seems like a huge patch to put in the diff
[07:56] <mdz> I haven't looked, but they are usually huge
[07:56] <fabbione> the debian/rules needs a lot of love to understand that stuff
[07:56] <fabbione> it's about 3.5Mb
[07:57] <mdz> bz2?
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: the problem is all the versioning after.. we can call the orig even 2.6.10+2.6.11rc2mm383646
[07:57] <fabbione> i think gz
[07:57] <mdz> 2.6.11~rc2
[07:57] <fabbione> but when make-kpkg and debian/rules are going to build, they will go banana
[07:57] <fabbione> ahhaha
[07:59] <mdz> we need to do a major review of kernel bugs in bugzilla.  will you talk about that at the meeting next week?
[07:59] <fabbione> yes.. that enters the "TODO list"
[07:59] <fabbione> we need 3 major subsystems reviewed
[08:00] <fabbione> USB, alsa and acpi
[08:00] <fabbione> 99% of the bugs float around them
[08:02] <mdz> I am sending you the last of the bugs that are still assigned to herbert
[08:03] <fabbione> yes i noticed
[08:03] <mdz> hopefully the kernel team can divide them up
[08:03] <mdz> many of them probably need re-testing with 2.6.10
[08:03] <fabbione> many of them are SL errors
[08:04] <mdz> sl?
[08:04] <fabbione> Super Lusers :)
[08:04] <daniels> the new fglrx might work with our kernel finally, but I doubt it
[08:04] <fabbione> daniels: get ready for another ABI change
[08:04] <fabbione> ahhaha
[08:04] <mdz> at least we have a live CD with an identical kernel so that they can use it to test
[08:04] <daniels> fabbione: just don't touch DRM this time :P
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: exactly
[08:04] <fabbione> daniels: i am updating them
[08:05] <daniels> fabbione: i have to roll a new orig, bump the ati version and whatever anyway; whatever you do cannot hurt me
[08:05] <daniels> fabbione: aieeeee
[08:05] <daniels> fabbione: ok, maybe whatever you do can hurt me
[08:05] <fabbione>     - DRM at 20050201:
[08:05] <fabbione>       . Add patch stolen-from-head_drm2.dpatch.
[08:05] <daniels> but hey, I love pain
[08:05] <daniels> HURT ME MORE
[08:06] <daniels> whoohoo!
[08:07] <daniels> thankyou
[08:15] <mdz> man, I feel bad
[08:15] <mdz> I ate this pub food for lunch
[08:15] <mdz> and I think it was a mistake
[08:15] <infinity> Did it scream on the way down?
[08:16] <mdz> no, it is only now rearing its ugly head
[08:17] <daniels> mdz: good pub food is awesome; bad pub food is e.coli
[08:18] <infinity> I don't think "good pub food" exists in Cairns.
[08:18] <infinity> You'll have to show me some in Melbourne.
[08:18] <infinity> (but not before the pancakes)
[08:19] <daniels> infinity: James Squire Brewhouse.  But yes, after PCP.
[08:19] <infinity> Pancake Parlor is like... Heaven.
[08:19] <infinity> With more butter.
[08:19] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[08:19] <HrdwrBoB> a *LOT* more butter
[08:19] <daniels> infinity: Imagine a fine pie made with a rotating meat and beer.  Sometimes (in the case when I had it) beef and Porter.  Oh my god.  And chips.  Yum.
[08:19] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: and cider!
[08:19] <HrdwrBoB> I still say cider needs to come in jugs
[08:19] <infinity> daniels : Where I come from, pie doesn't contain meat.
[08:20] <jamesh> not even a little bit?
[08:20] <daniels> infinity: But yeah, you'll see.
[08:20] <infinity> daniels : Blame mdz.  His stomach started it.
[08:20] <fabbione> mdz: pub food? too bad you are vegetarian.. otherwise Double Bella burgers!
[08:20] <jdub> monthly calendar word of the month: "triangle"
[08:20] <daniels> fabbione: triple
[08:21] <fabbione> daniels: that one too :)
[08:21] <mdz> bella?
[08:21] <jdub> pipka has gone vego now
[08:21] <mdz> perhaps some delicious portabella?
[08:21] <jdub> or is at least trying it
[08:21] <fabbione> mdz: half cow compressed in a burger with everything in it.. salad, tomatoes.. etc.
[08:21] <daniels> mdz: bottom up: bun, onion, lettuce, HUGE-ARSE BEEF PATTY, cheese, bacon, sauce, HUGE-ARSE BEEF PATTY, cheese, bacon, sauce, lettuce, onion, bun
[08:21] <jdub> tonight i am eating herb and garlic kangaroo
[08:21] <daniels> oh yeah, tomatoes and stuff too
[08:21] <daniels> jdub: when'd that happen?
[08:22] <jdub> about a week and a half ago
[08:22] <daniels> mdz: beautiful, but I didn't want to look at meat for a while after that.  went to a vegetarian restaurant the next night and had a jerusalem artichoke salad, a pie with spinach and lots of veggies in it, and a beetroot-based sald.  all organic.  heaven.
[08:22] <daniels> jdub: whoa
[08:22] <fabbione> mdz: HOLY SHIT! from 60 to 110 bugs in one shot eh?
[08:24] <jdub> daniels: matrox 450 3d support - open source?
[08:24] <jdub> but might be on crack
[08:24] <daniels> jdub: not afaik
[08:24] <daniels> jdub: i believe 3d stuff is provided by the binary mga_hal module
[08:24] <HrdwrBoB> no
[08:24] <HrdwrBoB> that's the TV out and stuff
[08:25] <daniels> which can be loaded a da submodule of the open source module
[08:25] <daniels> oh, so there's full open-source dri?  sweet
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> 450 is a 400 by another name ?
[08:25] <daniels> the 650 is *totally* unsupported
[08:25] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: pretty much
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> I'm fairly sure
[08:25] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: i believe it's a dual-head 400?
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> I had a 400
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> er 400 is dual head
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> it's a nonshit 400
[08:25] <jdub> daniels: 650 is the parhalia or whatever it is?
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> 400 had a terrible RAMDAC on the second head
[08:25] <daniels> jdub: yeah, we have nothing for that, and they won't even talk to us
[08:25] <jdub> wow
[08:25] <jdub> changed their tune a bit
[08:25] <daniels> they're perfectly happy to throw specs to xig for accelerated x
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> 400 drivers were the ones carmack helped on
[08:25] <daniels> but won't have anything to do with xorg.  not even a binary module.
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> for quake3
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> *reminisce*
[08:26] <jdub> does mga_hal work with xorg?
[08:26] <fabbione> daniels: the 650 should be fairly trivial to add
[08:27] <fabbione> daniels: i did a temporary patch once, but i think it got lost somewhere
[08:27] <fabbione> daniels: you can just try adding || MGA650 in parallel to 450
[08:27] <fabbione> the amount bits to change is minimal
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: looks like it
[08:27] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: oh, using matrox now?
[08:27] <jdub> i loved my matrox card
[08:28] <jdub> such crisp 2d display
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:28] <infinity> Do you guys mean 550, not 650?
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> I did side-by-side nvidia/matrox and it was chalk and cheese
[08:28] <infinity> If so, fabbione's right.  The 550 is just a souped up 450.
[08:28] <daniels> fabbione: people tried that -- it's a totally different core
[08:28] <jdub> 550 should work, but 650 is totally different
[08:28] <daniels> fabbione: the 550, as infinity says, is 450-based, but the 650 stuff is a totally different chip altogether
[08:28] <fabbione> oh ok
[08:31] <jdub> Kamion, mdz: do we have cpu detection -> choose appropriate kernel package stuff in the hoary installer?
[08:31] <fabbione> jdub: exactly as we did in warty :-)
[08:32] <jdub> oh
[08:32] <fabbione> jdub: sparc should be installable today
[08:32] <fabbione> wanna give it a shot?
[08:32] <fabbione> daniels: ?
[08:32] <jdub> 'cos a gnomer tried sarge and got an smp kernel on his p4 (correctly so), but didn't on warty/hoary
[08:32] <jdub> fabbione: ahr, will do - mini.iso?
[08:33] <fabbione> jdub: mini.iso or netboot.. same stuff
[08:33] <fabbione> if you can try both it's even better
[08:33] <fabbione> at least now you can get silo to install
[08:33] <daniels> fabbione: yeah.  reason my bandwidth sucks so much right now (ask mjg59) is that I'm rsyncing down ubuntu-sparc now.
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: The Matrox HAL ("Hardware Abstraction Layer") is a special library 
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> to enable features not supported by the standard XFree86 driver. 
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> It's required for DualHead, TV output, and DVI support
[08:34] <daniels> jdub: btw, we don't do smp stuff just because we can't fit it all into the cd
[08:34] <daniels> aiui
[08:34] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: i thought we did dualhead without hal?
[08:34] <daniels> required for dual-head and dvi?  that's crap
[08:34] <jdub> daniels: oh
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: apparently it adds more featuers and the original G400s need the hal module
[08:35] <jdub> fabbione: no rsync for sparc.ubuntu.com?
[08:35] <daniels> jdub: works for me
[08:36] <daniels> jdub: rsync://sparc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-sparc/
[08:36] <HrdwrBoB> matrox do the same retarded license thing that ati do, they say you can't do all these things with the driver, and then give you code which is GPL'd
[08:36] <daniels> mmm, ati's licence stuff is interesting
[08:36] <daniels> basically, you can write code like this:
[08:36] <daniels> /* Enable CRTC2 output. */
[08:37] <daniels> OUTB(RADEON_CRTC2_GEN_CNTL, RADEON_CRTC_EN);
[08:37] <daniels> but not like this:
[08:37] <daniels> /* Writing 0x11 into MMIO:0x443F enables the second CRTC. */
[08:37] <daniels> OUTB(RADEON_CRTC2_GEN_CNTL, RADEON_CRTC_EN);
[08:37] <daniels> go figure
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB>  weird
[08:37] <fabbione> jdub: yes.. there is rsync.. as daniels said
[08:38] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[08:38] <daniels> the only thing stopping tv out support is someone with time (not me), motivation (uncertain), specs (me), and hardware (me)
[08:38] <fabbione> jdub, daniels: in anycase.. boot with a DEBCONF_PRIORITY=medium
[08:38] <daniels> fabbione: heh, ok
[08:38] <fabbione> you need to be able to tell choose-mirror to use one unofficial ones
[08:38] <jdub> fabbione: the ramdisk stuff is fine now?
[08:39] <fabbione> otherwise d-i will loop forever over there
[08:39] <fabbione> jdub: it should be.. at least from the tests Kamion and I did
[08:39] <fabbione> jdub: but i could only check the netinst
[08:48] <jdub> fabbione: d'oh, still have ramdisk problems
[08:48] <jdub> fabbione: what was the boot param again?
[08:48] <fabbione> AHHH right
[08:49] <fabbione> d-i hasn't been rebuilt
[08:49] <jdub> oh
[08:49] <jdub> is this going to work at all then?
[08:49] <fabbione> jdub: i think we will need to wait for Kamion to upload a new d-i
[08:49] <fabbione> silo will, but i am afraid that the rest is the same
[08:49] <fabbione> otherwise.. wait..
[08:49] <fabbione> i can do a local build
[08:49] <fabbione> and upload only the mini.iso
[08:50] <fabbione> it doesn't take long.. and i need to remember to setup the daily d-i
[08:50] <sivang> morning all!
[09:00] <infinity> I can't believe I had to register just to download Matrox's binary-only driver.  Ugh.
[09:02] <daniels> infinity: SOLD YOUR SOUL.
[09:02] <daniels> infinity: if you want any of a series of crappy video cards, let me know
[09:03] <daniels> infinity: my radeon 9000 (agp, dvi+crt) is all yours if you want it
[09:03] <infinity> My GF6800GT makes me happy, currently.
[09:03] <daniels> infinity: http://amnesiac.heapspace.net/~daniel/cards.html, plus a fair few more esoteric ones that have just arrived
[09:03] <infinity> But if I build a second machine...
[09:03] <infinity> I was grabbing the Matrox drivers specifically pursuant to the conversation up there.
[09:04] <infinity> Is that IBM an ATI-based FireGL?
[09:06] <daniels> ATI OEMed it; it's not actually an ATI chip.
[09:06] <daniels> We don't have *any* docs on that one, and IBM won't give us any.
[09:06] <infinity> Hence why I submitted the via-on-XF86 patch to Debian.
[09:07] <infinity> Not an ATI chip?.. How old is it?
[09:07] <daniels> Pretty old.
[09:07] <infinity> I though all FireGL products in the last 2 or 3 years were Radeon-based.
[09:07] <infinity> Oh.  If it's ancient, it might be whatever was on the old Diamond FireGL cards.
[09:08] <infinity> Which was very not ATI.
[09:08] <daniels> Probably.  It was done by FGL Graphics, who were an S3 subsiduary (and the origin of fglrx), so Diamond doing it totally isn't out of the question.
[09:08] <daniels> The board says  2000.
[09:09] <infinity> Yeah, that'd be a Diamond FireGL, then.
[09:09] <infinity> IBM logo notwithstanding. :)
[09:09] <infinity> I used a few of those when I was doing sysadmin work at a place that was heavy in CAD/CAM.
[09:09] <daniels> As I said, it's an ATI OEM.
[09:09] <daniels> Well, I have one here, and it's currently a $50 VESA card.
[09:10] <infinity> That's probably al it'd ever be at this point anyway.
[09:10] <infinity> Video cards have come so far in 5 years, who'd want support for olf ones (beyond "something on the screen")
[09:11] <daniels> One of the DRI guys, in particular, wants DRI supporting every 3D-capable card ever.
[09:11] <daniels> So one of the conditions of him sending me the imstt (iXmicro) was that I'd have to write the DRI driver if he ever happened upon the data sheet.
[09:12] <daniels> He's trying to get datasheets out of #9, FFS.
[09:15] <infinity> daniels : That's sick.
[09:15] <infinity> daniels : And not in the Australian sense.
[09:15] <Treenaks> daniels: I saw Siliconmotion datasheets linked on the DRI wiki
[09:15] <daniels> Treenaks: yeah, SMI themselves are donating drivers
[09:16] <daniels> i don't think anyone actually owns siliconmotion hardware, though.
[09:16] <daniels> I know I don't, and I've been looking.
[09:16] <Treenaks> daniels: well, I have that laptop ;)
[09:16] <AndyFitz> anyone going to linux.conf.au ?
[09:17] <daniels> Treenaks: if you want to give it to me, sure ...
[09:18] <Treenaks> daniels: when I have a new laptop ;) it's my primary workstation atm :)
[09:18] <lifeless> AndyFitz: yah
[09:19] <lifeless> AndyFitz: many
[09:20] <Treenaks> daniels: (s/primary/only/)
[09:22] <AndyFitz> lifeless,  awesome.  It will be my first linux.conf.au  ( I missed the one here in brisbane )
[09:22] <fabbione> jdub: people.u.c/~fabbione/mini.iso
[09:23] <fabbione> that should do
[09:23] <fabbione> you still need to boot with expert mode or a DEBCONF_PRIORITY=medium
[09:44] <dholbach> good morning everyone!
[09:45] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[09:53] <daniels> seb128: yo, whattup
[09:53] <seb128> morning
[09:54] <seb128> daniels: hello!
[09:54] <daniels> seb128: the gnome-keyboard-applet thing is craaaaaaaaaaaack
[09:54] <seb128> daniels: oh ? you have pinged svu ?
[09:55] <rubenv> dholbach: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165655 it's fixed :)
[09:55] <seb128> daniels: is there a known issue with riva128/xorg in hoary ?
[09:56] <daniels> seb128: i'm having a look at the keyboard stuff, haven't spoken to svu yet
[09:56] <daniels> seb128: and yeah, it's resolved in my local tree
[09:56] <seb128> k
[09:56] <daniels> seb128: quick hack: sudo ln -s /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/riva128{,_drv}.o
[09:57] <daniels> executive summary: nv is stupid
[09:57] <seb128> k, thanks
[09:59] <dholbach> rubenv: yes... oh that caused your ploblem... damn - we investigated in the wrong direction :-)
[10:01] <dholbach> rubenv: i'm waiting for a fix release of bryan and i'll have a look, when gtkmm is complete in debian
[10:02] <rubenv> dholbach: well, when I burned all ftp stuff from .recently-used, it worked
[10:02] <rubenv> we were halfway the right way ;)
[10:02] <dholbach> :-)
[10:03] <ajmitch> ogra: another py package working
[10:04] <rubenv> dholbach: the fix release has been released btw 
[10:05] <pitti> Morning
[10:05] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:05] <pitti> seb128: hey! Hmm, this time I'm awake later than you...
[10:06] <dholbach> rubenv: you dont mean 0.1.4.1?
[10:07] <seb128> pitti: you oversleep ? :p
[10:07] <dholbach> rubenv: i'm waiting for 0.1.4.2 - it contains another issue i spotted on 64bit-systems and includes a better german translation (my first was lousy ;-))
[10:07] <pitti> seb128: no, I hacked until 2 am
[10:07] <seb128> me too :p
[10:07] <ajmitch> heh
[10:07] <dholbach> couldnt you sleep? :-)
[10:08] <ajmitch> I had to stay up for the TB meeting which was 5AM :)
[10:12] <amu> jdub: pong
[10:15] <pitti> elmo: is it possible to sync from Debian/incoming? or shall I just upload exactly the same source package to Ubuntu?
[10:16] <daniels> pitti: can't sync from incoming
[10:17] <seb128> daniels: not true
[10:17] <daniels> seb128: uh?
[10:17] <seb128> sync from incoming is possible but elmo prefers from a mirror IIRC
[10:18] <ogra> morning...
[10:19] <ajmitch> hey ogra 
[10:19] <dholbach> hai ogra :-)
[10:19] <ogra> ajmitch: sorry, i havet looked at your packages yet, but will do it today :)
[10:19] <ogra> dholbach: hey
[10:20] <ajmitch> ogra: yeah, I haven't told you where I'm putting them yet :)
[10:21] <ogra> ajmitch: i just saw your last msg....(just reading up the night ;) )
[10:21] <ajmitch> yup
[10:25] <mvo_> ping jdub 
[10:26] <ajmitch> seb128: do you want to update mboxcheck-applet in universe, since it's your package? 
[10:27] <seb128> what's broken ? python version ?
[10:27] <ajmitch> yeah, only needs rebuilt & the changelog bumped 
[10:28] <ajmitch> unlike others which have #!/usr/bin/python2.3 in the source
[10:34] <seb128> k
[10:34] <seb128> I'll update it
[10:37] <pitti> Mithrand1r: did you hear anything bad about the new password algorithm in mailman?
[10:41] <ajmitch> ogra: do you want the .orig.tar.gz & a Sources.gz file in the dir?
[10:41] <ogra> ajmitch: the orig please
[10:41] <ajmitch> ok, will take a little longer to upload :)
[10:42] <ogra> ajmitch: then leave it, i can grab it from the archove
[10:42] <ogra> archive even
[10:42] <ajmitch> most of them are small anyway
[10:47] <ajmitch> ogra: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~ajmitch/debs/ubuntu
[10:47] <ajmitch> there are others in the debs/other dir
[10:47] <Mithrand1r> pitti: nope
[10:48] <dholbach> i have a user stating, his warty-release-install-cd installation b0rks when it tries to add a user - instead of adding the user, it starts over again
[10:49] <ajmitch> I've still got to clean up the (new) packaging for libgsf-cil & libevolution-cil
[10:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, so maybe we can fix Warty now?
[10:49] <ogra> ajmitch: distributuion unstable does not exist in ubuntu ;)
[10:49] <ajmitch> ogra: which one?
[10:49] <ogra> currently pyro....
[10:50] <ajmitch> it's probably one I forgot to change since you looked
[10:50] <ajmitch> yeah, that's right..
[10:50] <ogra> ctypes too
[10:50] <ajmitch> the other 3 ought to be ok for that..
[10:50] <ogra> revelation is right 
[10:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: I really don't see the need.  The "passwords" are sent in cleartext across the network, they aren't passwords and should never have been labeled as such
[10:51] <ogra> webcheck and viewcvs look ok too
[10:52] <ajmitch> revelation, webcheck & viewcvs I did tonight
[10:53] <ogra> ah, ok... at a first glance they look good....
[10:54] <elmo> pitti: please don't ever upload where a sync is possible
[10:54] <elmo> just send me mail and I'll either do it from incoming or do it when it hits a public mirror, depending on urgency
[10:54] <pitti> elmo: okay, then I wait until after today's Debian katie run
[10:54] <ajmitch> ogra: I'd hold back on ctypes for now, until I test it with 2.4
[10:54] <ogra> ok
[10:54] <pitti> elmo: so sync from incoming _is_ possible? it's a relatively severe PostgreSQL security fix
[10:55] <ajmitch> ogra: it just failed one of the unittests in the package
[10:55] <ogra> oh
[10:55] <ajmitch> yeah :)
[10:55] <ajmitch> since it dives into python internals
[10:57] <YokoZar> Somehow when I'm building my package it's not generating a debian/files file
[10:57] <YokoZar> When/where is this done?
[10:57] <elmo> pitti: yes, it's possible
[10:57] <pitti> elmo: cool, can you please sync postgresql 7.4.7-1? mdz blessed it
[10:57] <elmo> I can sync anything with a pulse^W.dsc
[10:58] <dholbach> ogra: would you upload timer-applet-0.5.1 for me? :-)
[10:58] <seb128> elmo: gazpacho sync please :)
[10:58] <ogra> dholbach: extensively tested ?
[10:58] <ajmitch> ogra: any objections to me packaging ctypes 0.9.2, when 0.6.3 is current in universe? :)
[10:58] <dholbach> ogra: yes... pbuilder did fine, rebuilt and reinstalled it, to check new functionality
[10:59] <ogra> ajmitch: not really....but waht about the sid version ?
[10:59] <ogra> dholbach: i'll do a testbuild and upload it then...
[10:59] <dholbach> ogra: thankssssssssss :-)
[11:00] <ajmitch> ogra: I'd preferably send my packaged version to the sid maintainer
[11:00] <ogra> ajmitch: i he takes it... did you contact him/her ?
[11:00] <ogra> if even
[11:01] <ajmitch> no, I only just found that upstream is far ahead of debian just earlier
[11:06] <YokoZar> ogra: Can we talk about MOTUness?
[11:06] <ajmitch> ogra: I'm going for the low-hanging fruit for now, doing python-irclib
[11:08] <ogra> ajmitch: thats a good start :) for learning its way easier to pick a small package (and it keeps my effort low, thanks)
[11:08] <ogra> YokoZar: what do you want to know ?
[11:09] <YokoZar> Well, what I need to do next, mostly.  I've got my wine package ready for upload (will have another with the next wine release in a couple weeks), and I'm almost done with the winetools package.  I've got a wiki page too.
[11:09] <elmo> Kamion: ?
[11:09] <ogra> YokoZar: did you talk to upstream about your package ? 
[11:10] <YokoZar> I am upstream :)
[11:10] <ogra> upstream = debian
[11:10] <sivang> seb128: what's gazpacho's pkg name? 
[11:10] <seb128> sivang: gazpacho
[11:10] <seb128> sivang: why ?
[11:10] <sivang> seb128: :)
[11:11] <YokoZar> Yeah.  I've been trying to get him to update the package for months now, or turn over maintainership.  He hasn't done anything, and it got to the point where we've been mirroring our own apt repository at winehq.  It got quite annoying telling every Debian user to install from source
[11:11] <ajmitch> ogra: learning isn't too much of a problem, I'm nearly finished in the NM queue for debian, and maintain ~10 packages in sid :)
[11:11] <ogra> YokoZar: we want to aviod drifting to far apart from dbian, so its always desirable to have fixes committed upstream.... wine is a quite essential package for many people. (in debian too)
[11:11] <jdub> ogra: one of the reasons i encouraged YokoZar to get involved was the lack of good wine packages in debian
[11:12] <marcin_ant> jdub: hi!
[11:12] <azeem> # [2005-01-30]  Accepted wine 0.0.20041019-1 (i386 source all) 
[11:12] <YokoZar> Yup.  And that version is 3 months out of date already :)
[11:12] <ogra> jdub: ah, ok... i didnt follow very much the last days (hal kept me quite busy)
[11:12] <YokoZar> ogra: Yeah, and it's tragic.  But unless someone wants to crazy NMU my package there's really nothing I can do.  Ove's been away from Wine ever since he left to work for Transgaming.  I'm not sure why he hasn't given up maintainership.
[11:12] <marcin_ant> jdub: any news about Website Look'n'Feel Competition?
[11:13] <azeem>    * Mention Scott Ritchie's Wine packages in README.Debian.
[11:13] <azeem>      Since I have been sick a lot lately, I have not had time
[11:13] <azeem>      to review these packages yet, but I can at least mention
[11:13] <azeem>      them. After I bring the current Debian packages up to
[11:13] <azeem>      date, I'll review his packages, and if I like them, I may
[11:13] <azeem>      turn over maintainership to him. Until then, I'm only
[11:13] <azeem>      mentioning his packages with caution.
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: wanted to install on my system :)
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: and couldn't finmd the package by that name befoire
[11:14] <seb128> sivang: apt-cache search gazpacho ...
[11:14] <seb128> jdub: hey hey :)
[11:14] <azeem> YokoZar: I wondered what would become of the wine packages when I heard Transgaming were forking it, but I had the impression he kept up maintaining them at some level
[11:14] <ogra> YokoZar: anyway, wine is a protion to big for me, as i'm still practicing package review myself, for a package of this size please contact haggai
[11:14] <azeem> (though I don't really follow closely)
[11:14] <YokoZar> azeem: That's encouraging.  The trouble is that we're releasing them faster than he can update em.
[11:15] <sivang> jdub: no , seb is right, but I really couldn't find the pkg :) I wonder if I was seraching for the right word :)
[11:15] <ajmitch> ogra: btw, azeem can vouch for me, he's had the misfortune of sponsoring my package uploads :)
[11:15] <YokoZar> ogra: Err...too big?  Ok, I'll talk with haggai.  Can you help me with the (much smaller) winetools?  I'm still having this strange problem of no debian/files being generated by debhelper
[11:15] <ogra> ajmitch: unfortunately azeem is not a MOTU (yet?)
[11:15] <ajmitch> ogra: I know that, but he's a DD
[11:16] <ogra> ajmitch: which gives him neither CC nor TB nor MOTU voting rights....
[11:16] <ajmitch> ogra: I'm not referring to formal procedures
[11:17] <jdub> marcin_ant: not yet, no
[11:18] <jdub> sivang: ?
[11:18] <fabbione> jdub: got the message before?
[11:19] <jdub> fabbione: nup
[11:19] <fabbione> people.u.c/~fabbione/mini.iso
[11:19] <ajmitch> jdub: how's beagle looking?
[11:19] <fabbione> either you install from sparc.u.c or you need to be sure to have your local mirror in sync (libc6 upgrade)
[11:19] <ajmitch> I've got gsf-sharp working
[11:19] <jdub> ajmitch: cool
[11:20] <sivang> jdub: disregard, EWRONGCONTEXT :)
[11:20] <marcin_ant> jdub: ok I understand that you are busy etc. , but culd you at least confirm that you got my submissions?
[11:20] <ajmitch> halfway done on evo-sharp
[11:20] <jdub> ajmitch: it works, but needs depends love to actually buildd ;)
[11:20] <jdub> marcin_ant: i have
[11:20] <ajmitch> jdub: I can give it some loving if you'd like :)
[11:20] <ajmitch> depends on how hairy it is
[11:20] <maswan> fabbione: Oh, I saw you(?) got assigned my ravel bug (mptfusion). Want me to test the latest hoary kernel? I haven't managed to build one myself that gives console output or boots properly, the machine is somewhat weird.
[11:20] <marcin_ant> jdub: ok - thanks for info :)
[11:20] <mvo_> jdub: are you aware of any problems with the latest gamin when it comes to monitoring a single file for changes?
[11:21] <jdub> mvo_: hrm, not really
[11:21] <marcin_ant> jdub: are there beagle packages available?
[11:21] <jdub> marcin_ant: no
[11:22] <fabbione> maswan: i got reassigned 50 bugs in a shot... so no.. i don't even know which bug it is...
[11:22] <fabbione> maswan: i am going trough them slowly
[11:22] <mvo_> jdub: hrm, ok ... it looks like it does no longer tell me about changes on a file (it monitors directories correctly though). I file I bug with a test-case
[11:22] <maswan> fabbione: Ah, ok.
[11:22] <fabbione> maswan: but yes.. test and let me know. that will save me a NEEDINFO
[11:22] <dholbach> hmmm, why was ubuntu-calendar-february just built for i386?
[11:23] <ajmitch> ogra: what's your limit on reviewing packages, size-wise? :)
[11:23] <maswan> fabbione: the hoary install kernel is 2.6.10 too, right?
[11:23] <fabbione> maswan: yes
[11:26] <elmo> dholbach: because it's arch: all
[11:26] <jdub> fabbione: looks like a successful hoary/sparc install :)
[11:26] <dholbach> elmo: ah, alright
[11:27] <seb128> jdub: gamin doesn't work fine, have you noticed that ?
[11:28] <ajmitch> ogra: uploading pnet for review in a minute
[11:28] <seb128> (or that's just me ?)
[11:28] <jdub> fabbione: though i'm not in the sudoers file... (but i was at medium debconf priority, which confused things)
[11:28] <jdub> seb128: works ok here
[11:28] <fabbione> jdub: TOTALLY RAD!
[11:28] <seb128> jdub: if you remove/add menu-xdg do you get the debian submenu changed ?
[11:29] <jdub> seb128: hrm, will test in a bit
[11:29] <ajmitch> ogra: you have a choice between reviewing 0.6.10 or 0.6.12 :)
[11:29] <dholbach> ogra: is there already someone working on monkey-journal?
[11:30] <seb128> jdub: and the inotify crash is still here :/ (I've crashed while playing with nautilus yesterday)
[11:30] <jdub> yeah :|
[11:30] <ogra> dholbach: nope, i dont think so .... you moniitor the UniverseCandidates page ?
[11:30] <dholbach> ogra: unregularly, yes
[11:30] <jdub> hrm, my U5 is surprisingly noisy
[11:31] <ogra> dholbach: if you stumble over nice software... feel free to add it
[11:31] <dholbach> ogra: right
[11:34] <jdub> we should totally get rid of net-tools
[11:35] <jdub> hrm
[11:35] <jdub> that's a bit harsh
[11:35] <Simira> morning jdub
[11:35] <jdub> we should totally not ship ifconfig
[11:35] <bob2> haha
[11:35] <bob2> port everything to iproute, first
[11:35] <YokoZar> Why don't we just switch everything to appletalk?
[11:36] <jdub> fabbione: dude, what is with ubuntu-desktop on sparc?
[11:36] <fabbione> i am on the phone..
[11:36] <fabbione> right a sec
[11:36] <YokoZar> Also, all images should be in AOL's .art format.
[11:37] <rubenv> YokoZar: don't forget converting all docs to WordPerfect 5
[11:38] <fabbione> seb128: i am building test packages to check the new inotify with debugging enabled.
[11:38] <fabbione> jdub: what is the problem with ubuntu-desktop?
[11:38] <seb128> fabbione: k
[11:38] <fabbione> jdub: we still don't have ubuntu-meta.. so that might be a problem
[11:39] <jdub> fabbione: aha
[11:40] <jdub> fabbione: ubuntu-desktop installs, but doesn't have any depends ;)
[11:40] <jdub> fabbione: entertaining ;)
[11:40] <fabbione> ah because it's an old version
[11:40] <fabbione> nah.. i knew about it..
[11:40] <fabbione> i need to get it fixed
[11:41] <ajmitch> ogra: pnet 0.6.10 is up
[11:42] <seb128> jdub: I've a patch from Scott to had the gtk bookmarks to the nautilus places menu (in the spatial mode) ... what do you think about including it ?
[11:43] <fabbione> jdub: as soon as we can get choose-mirror to do the right thing, we will be able to go DEBCONF_PRIORITY=high
[11:43] <fabbione> jdub: so that should fix the sudo stuff
[11:44] <fabbione> jdub: i still have one issue with the serial console and no-head to look at + ubuntu-meta
[11:44] <doko> hi all
[11:44] <fabbione> given these 3 bits get fixed, we can for sure go live
[11:47] <jdub> seb128: EXCELLENT
[11:48] <jdub> fabbione: how soon do you think you'd have a livecd?
[11:49] <jdub> fabbione: so with base installed, it works very nicely
[11:49] <YokoZar> Does the warty application's menu work with packages using .menu type objects immediately after installing, or does it require a login/out?
[11:49] <sivang> seb128: do we have a patch to make g-s-t recognize it's on ubuntu in all the modules?
[11:50] <sivang> seb128: I've seen something to remove the warning on the patches debian dir, not sure if this is connected.
[11:51] <seb128> sivang: I don't get the question
[11:51] <seb128> sivang: you get a message saying that the distro is not recognized ?
[11:52] <jdub> fabbione: heh, i'll have to put it on the 220R next :-)
[11:53] <sivang> seb128: no, it's ok, I just wanted to know how the patch is going, I'll look in its code then, basically I want to know if it makes sense to add upstream code to make it know it's on ubuntu like it does for the other distros.
[11:53] <fabbione> jdub: i dunno yet. i want to have installable at least, before asking Kamion/lamont/mdz to produce CD's
[11:53] <seb128> sivang: that's debian/patches/05_ubuntu-no-warning.dpatch
[11:54] <fabbione> jdub: we don't know yet if X will do the right thing, even if i have been careful when we switched from xfree to xorg
[11:54] <seb128> sivang: it should be listed as a debian
[11:54] <jdub> fabbione: got some evms b0rkage in my boot output, want me to relay, or do you know about it?
[11:54] <fabbione> jdub: it's normal
[11:54] <jdub> ok
[11:55] <fabbione> evms problem with 64 bit kernels
[11:55] <fabbione> missing ioctl
[11:55] <fabbione> but it works fine
[11:55] <jdub> heh, all my machines have (almost) public ipv6 addresses now :-)
[11:55] <sivang> seb128: ok, then it would be redundent code :) tnx
[11:55] <fabbione> jdub: i did for the last 4 years :)
[11:57] <jdub> fabbione: for your firewall, do you use iptables directly, or a helper tool?
[11:58] <fabbione> iptables directly
[11:58] <fabbione> there is no tool out there that can get my config right and sane
[11:59] <jdub> mmm
[11:59] <jdub> using shorewall atm
[12:00] <jdub> but it isn't particularly ipv6 friendly
[12:02] <fabbione> none of the tools i know of, are capable of handling ipv6 properly
[12:04] <jdub> bummer
[12:10] <abelli> sladen: ding
[12:12] <elmo> pitti, seb128: done
[12:12] <pitti> thanks
[12:12] <seb128> thanks
[12:14] <sladen> abelli: pong
[12:14] <abelli> sladen: have you seen simplymepis's tricky fb?
[12:15] <sladen> abelli: nope.  Tell me more
[12:15] <abelli> ive just seen it on a magazine..
[12:15] <abelli> it has something like an image in the background
[12:18] <ajmitch> elmo: can the dependencies of zope-cmfplone be imported into universe?
[12:18] <elmo> ajmitch: err, where from?
[12:18] <ajmitch> elmo: sid
[12:19] <ajmitch> it seems that the cmf1.4 packages weren't imported
[12:19] <elmo> ajmitch: I need an explicit list of source packages to sync
[12:19] <ajmitch> ok, just a minute
[12:19] <elmo> everything from sid is imported into universe - the only reason it wouldn't have been is if it's NEW since the upstream version freeze
[12:20] <ajmitch> the freeze probably happened during a zope/plone breakage in sid
[12:22] <ajmitch> looks like that was the case
[12:24] <Alessio> install zope/plone
[12:24] <fabbione> jdub: d-i phase0 is GO here too :-)
[12:25] <YokoZar> Ok, I finished my winetools package
[12:25] <Alessio> give mismatch error
[12:25] <YokoZar> Do I have a guinea pig?
[12:25] <Alessio> plone 1.0.5 ; zope  2.6.4-1.1
[12:25] <ajmitch> elmo: zope-cmf1.4 zope-cmfcore1.4 zope-cmfdefault1.4 zope-cmftopic1.4 zope-cmfcalendar1.4 zope-dcworkflow zope-cmfactionicons zope-cmfquickinstallertool zope-groupuserfolder zope-cmfformcontroller zope-plonetranslations
[12:26] <ajmitch> those are the ones that are said to be uninstallable
[12:26] <Alessio> is there plone 2.0 in hoary?
[12:27] <elmo> ajmitch: source packages, pls
[12:27] <elmo> ajmitch: and please get sign off from a MOTMOTU
[12:31] <ajmitch> source packages are zope-cmf1.4 zope-cmfactionicons zope-cmfquickinstallertool zope-groupuserfolder zope-cmfformcontroller zope-plonetranslations
[12:32] <ajmitch> and the MOTMOTU just went off to work
[12:32] <ajmitch> unless haggai is around
[12:37] <YokoZar> jdub: If you want to try the winetools package to go along with wine, it's on the winehq apt repository now.
[12:37] <YokoZar> Point and click installation of internet explorer!  Just what linux needs!
[12:40] <ajmitch> mdz: I see a post on u-user by you about not being able to resize ext3 - I've got an updated ext2online deb that works for this that could possibly go into universe
[12:41] <ajmitch> s/ext2online/ext2resize/
[12:42] <Hwolf> Yokozar: Yuk on that!
[12:52] <maswan> fabbione: Ok, pretty much the same problem (except I had to modprobe mptscsih manually before getting to the real problem). Let me know if you have time to talk about it.
[12:52] <fabbione> maswan: can you at least tell me the bug number?
[12:53] <maswan> fabbione: 2287
[12:54] <maswan> short summary: mptfusion disk, after partitioning when writing filesystem, it won't finish, and dmesg logs stuff like this:
[12:54] <maswan> mptbase: ioc0: LogInfo(0x11070000): F/W: DMA Error
[12:54] <maswan> mptbase: ioc0: IOCStatus(0x004b): SCSI IOC Terminated
[12:54] <maswan> lots and lots of those
[12:55] <fabbione> maswan: you have been asked with a dmesg of both the working and non working kernel, Herbert did ask you to test with a plain 2.6.8.1
[12:55] <fabbione> did you do these tests?
[12:55] <fabbione> can you kindly add all the info in the bug?
[12:55] <maswan> fabbione: Yes, I have been trying to do tests with a plain kernel, but I'm having trouble with that. I can't seem to manage to build one that gives me console output or boots far enough to get network.
[12:56] <fabbione> compile everything inline
[12:56] <fabbione> no modules, no initrd
[12:56] <fabbione> maswan: does that box boot from ide or directly from the scsi?
[12:57] <maswan> fabbione: from the scsi, that's the only disk in it
[12:57] <fabbione> if so can you manage to boot a working system from another disk and give me access to it?
[12:57] <maswan> I can give you access to the system running on the latest working kernel I have, yes.
[12:58] <maswan> Can you send a gpg-signed email with ssh key to maswan@acc.umu.se, I'll add you. This is the inofficial debian amd64 devel machine btw.
[12:58] <fabbione> maswan: ok, but it's not priority 1 for me atm
[12:58] <fabbione> i will do as soon as i can spend sometime on it
[12:58] <maswan> fabbione: ACK
[12:59] <fabbione> maswan: it would really help if you can stick a normal hd in there where to boot from
[12:59] <fabbione> to test a fix i need to be able to rmmod and modprobe the dirver
[12:59] <fabbione> driver
[12:59] <fabbione> and it doesn't help booting from it
[01:00] <elmo> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x23
[01:00] <elmo> meh?
[01:01] <fabbione> elmo: that means that your video card sucks hard
[01:02] <maswan> fabbione: Well, there are no ide hdd spaces.
[01:02] <elmo> 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G550 AGP (rev 01)
[01:02] <fabbione> maswan: usb?
[01:02] <maswan> fabbione: it is a 1U server with two scsi hotswap slots on the mpt.
[01:03] <maswan> hmm.. yeah, it has usb, that's true.
[01:03] <fabbione> elmo: right.. that sucks even more :O
[01:03] <elmo> fabbione: bah
[01:04] <maswan> I'll look into that
[01:04] <fabbione> maswan: the problem is that i can't test a kernel without being able to a) reboot b) recover from crash
[01:04] <fabbione> elmo: check irc logs from this morning.. someone was discussing Matrox 3D thingy
[01:04] <pitti> mvo_: why does the update-notifier icon tell me I have 15 updates available, and if I open it, it claims that my system is up-to-date?
[01:04] <pitti> mvo_: (my system _is_ up-to-date, btw)
[01:05] <Mithrandir> maswan: if you have a remote power thingy on it, lilo -R should be enough for fabio to test.
[01:05] <maswan> fabbione: I'll get Mithrandir to go over a kernel config too, since I might be missing something. :)
[01:05] <fabbione> maswan: it is ok, but please add all these stuff to the bug
[01:06] <fabbione> maswan: i am not going to maintain the kernel forever
[01:06] <maswan> fabbione: Yeah, I'll write up a comment.
[01:06] <fabbione> and who will come after me must be able to keep going
[01:09] <Mithrandir> thom: what did we end up with wrt NM or replacement love?
[01:09] <fabbione> seb128: what kernel do you need to test inotify?
[01:09] <mvo_> pitti: I think because of #6088 (gamin problem)
[01:09] <thom> Mithrandir: netapplet
[01:09] <thom> as NetworkMagic pages says :-)
[01:10] <mvo_> seb128: ping?
[01:19] <seb128> fabbione: ?
[01:19] <seb128> fabbione: i386 if that's the question
[01:19] <seb128> mvo_: pong ?
[01:19] <fabbione> seb128: flavour? k7? 686?
[01:20] <seb128> k7
[01:20] <carlos> mvo_: hmmm, the modem_applet bt is for Carlos Garnacho, right?
[01:20] <carlos> mvo_: you sent it to me...
[01:21] <carlos> mvo_: carlosg@gnome.org is his email address, carlos@gnome.org is mine ;-)
[01:21] <seb128> carlos: stop talking and fix the bug dude !
[01:22] <ogra> hehe
[01:22] <carlos> seb128: lalala
[01:22] <mvo_> carolos: haha :) can you please forward it to him
[01:22] <carlos> sure
[01:22] <mvo_> I send you another one a minute ago
[01:22] <seb128> mvo_: pong pong :p
[01:23] <mvo_> seb128: I just wanted to ask if we have a debug version of the applets and found it out myself :)
[01:23] <seb128> k
[01:23] <seb128> mvo_: BTW have you looked on the translations for update-notifier ?
[01:24] <mvo_> seb128: yes, thanks. should work now. also i have a problem with the menu not translatable. I'll check that later (it's a bit strange)
[01:24] <seb128> k, cool
[01:26] <mvo_> seb128: update-notifier is broken ATM because gamin seems to not tell me about changes in single files. have you seen that with nautilus too ?
[01:26] <seb128> mvo_: I've got some bugs about notify issues, ie: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6086
[01:27] <seb128> and the panel is not updated (if you add the debian menu by example)
[01:27] <dholbach> seb128: both libgtkhtml3.1-dev and libgtkhtml3.2-dev provide /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libgtkhtml-3.1.pc - do you know if this intended?
[01:28] <mvo_> seb128: I wonder if going back to gamin 0.0.20 fixes the problem for the user. it did for my test-case (#6088)
[01:28] <dholbach> seb128: oh... there is a "conflicts:", alright - so i'll just build-depend on libgtkhtml3.2-dev
[01:28] <seb128> dholbach: libgtkhtml3.6-dev is the current version dunno about the old stuff, they should be removed
[01:28] <seb128> mvo_: there is a gamin 0.22 too (jdub has not packaged it yet)
[01:29] <seb128> perhaps you could try with it ?
[01:29] <seb128> mvo_: do you have a link with the 0.0.20 ?
[01:29] <mvo_> seb128: cool, thanks. I'll dl it and see if it helps
[01:29] <mvo_> seb128: I took it from my /var/cache/apt/archives :)
[01:30] <mvo_> I'll quickly check out 0.0.22 first and if that fails too I can put the 0.0.20 online 
[01:30] <seb128> mvo_: do you get #6086 ?
[01:31] <mvo_> seb128: yes, I see this too (but haven't checked yet if 0.0.20 fixes the problem)
[01:31] <seb128> weird, that works fine with 0.21 here
[01:31] <dholbach> seb128: thanks... i'll tell upstream
[01:34] <mvo_> seb128: don't take it for granted :) I'll do a clean test later. monitoring directories seems to work in my test-case (only single files are a problem it seems)
[01:34] <Kamion> elmo: pong
[01:36] <seb128> mvo_: could you upload the 0.0.20 deb somewhere ? I would like to try the panel with it now :p
[01:36] <elmo> Kamion: usbutils dropped it's -udeb in the recent sync; is that going to be a problem?
[01:38] <Kamion> elmo: er, uh-huh, YEAH
[01:39] <mvo_> seb128: they are on people.u.c/~mvo
[01:39] <seb128> mvo_: thanks
[01:39] <Kamion> elmo: I'll fix it
[01:39] <Mithrandir> do we have to get exceptions for universe syncs?
[01:39] <mvo_> seb128: http://people.u.c/~mvo that is
[01:39] <Mithrandir> or can they just be requested?
[01:40] <elmo> Mithrandir: not needed for universe
[01:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: any progress on the libdb issue on amd64 ?
[01:41] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks.
[01:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: sorry, haven't had the time to look at it yet.
[01:41] <seb128> do you know if you'll have time soon ? evolution* just crash on amd64 for the moment, that seems to bother amd64 users :)
[01:44] <dholbach> Mithrandir: seb128 is a bit euphemistic there - ogra would simply love you for fixing it :-)
[01:44] <seb128> mvo_: 0.0.20 doesn't work better with the panel apparently
[01:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: give me a few minutes to get a gcc and a kernel compile started and I'll look at it.
[01:45] <seb128> thanks
[01:46] <mvo_> seb128: I'm away for a couple of minutes to have lunch, than I'll check out 0.0.22
[01:48] <seb128> mvo_: k, have a good lunch :
[01:48] <seb128> :)
[02:14] <fabbione> seb128: people.u.c/~fabbione/inotify/
[02:14] <fabbione> seb128: it contains the debugging version of inotify.. can you check if you still get the crash with it?
[02:14] <fabbione> also.. it has a new soname = reboot mandatory
[02:15] <fabbione> and it is a newer version of the patch, so it might work
[02:16] <fabbione> if it crash, it should print crap all over the place
[02:16] <fabbione> dmesg/logs and so on..
[02:21] <seb128> fabbione: ok
[02:21] <fabbione> seb128: thanks
[02:21] <seb128> np
[02:22] <fabbione> ps if you can test it ASAP is better :-)
[02:24] <lamont> Kamion: any reason you can think of why the ia64 livecd boots into the partitioner?
[02:27] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[02:27] <Kamion> lamont: didn't mdz answer that? no bootloader-fu
[02:27] <fabbione> lamont: do you want to send me your ssh public key? so i can setup the access to the sparc buildd?
[02:27] <Kamion> lamont: try booting with casper/enable=true
[02:28] <lamont> Kamion: didn't see his answer...
[02:28] <lamont> Kamion: ok
[02:28] <lamont> fabbione: will today
[02:28] <fabbione> lamont
[02:28] <fabbione> lamont: no rush!
[02:28] <fabbione> Kamion: yo..
[02:29] <fabbione> Kamion: 2 success reported for sparc.. we need to fix choose-mirror :(
[02:29] <Kamion> lamont: unfortunately it's fiddly to fix because debian-cd just takes a boot.img from debian-installer; unlike our other architectures, debian-cd doesn't have its own bootloader configuration
[02:29] <Kamion> fabbione: no sabdfl at the moment, I'll try to remember when he next appears
[02:30] <fabbione> Kamion: roger.. that's 33% of the showstoppers for release...
[02:30] <fabbione> Kamion: i also prepared an update for ubuntu-meta to include sparc
[02:30] <Kamion> lamont: actually, you need casper/enable=true casper-udeb/snapshot/backing-file=/cdrom/casper/filesystem.cloop
[02:30] <lamont> amd74xx module must die.
[02:30] <fabbione> and i need to investigate the prebase-config thingy.. mind to remind me what package does it?
[02:30] <Kamion> fabbione: generic? (i.e. does it fix the update script to look at sparc.ubuntu.com?)
[02:31] <Kamion> lamont: how is amd74xx being loaded? it's not hardwired in hw-detect or anything.
[02:31] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. i modified the update script
[02:31] <Kamion> fabbione: that would be prebaseconfig. What exactly do you mean?
[02:31] <Kamion> lamont: try 'grep amd74xx /var/log/syslog' ...
[02:31] <fabbione> Kamion: the problem with the inittab.. it works for people with a monitor.. but it is kinda broken (compared to debian) on headless
[02:32] <Kamion> prebaseconfig, then
[02:32] <fabbione> Kamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/umeta.diff <- ugly patch that works
[02:32] <Kamion> ok
[02:32] <fabbione> that creates base-sparc and desktop-sparc
[02:33] <fabbione> they look ok...
[02:35] <lamont> Kamion: not sure - need to run the kids to school.  it's being loaded with 'modprobe -v amd74xx', and it's fatal
[02:36] <lamont> the first two times, you just hit return to the error dialog.  The third time, casper, uh, gives up the ghost.
[02:37] <smurfix> Kamion: Is there a quick way to get an untranslated template string from cdebconf?
[02:38] <smurfix> Kamion: I need that for translating a keymap name back to a localized string
[02:40] <Kamion> lamont: please try to find why it's being loaded, because it isn't hardwired as far as I can see
[02:40] <Kamion> smurfix: see the pile of grotty code in kbd-chooser.
[02:40] <Kamion> smurfix: this is one bit of debconf I really don't know well, though, I'm afraid
[02:42] <fabbione> ahhh
[02:42] <fabbione> hmmm
[02:43] <fabbione> i think the problem with serial is the switching with udev at installation time..
[02:43] <elmo> umm, am I going insane, or is per-window/desktop num-lock something new?
[02:43] <smurfix> Kamion: ... which doesn't actually do what it thinks it's doing. debconf_metaget(...,"Description") returns the same thing debconf_metaget(...,"Description-de.UTF-8") returns, i.e. the translated string
[02:47] <smurfix> Kamion: My problem is that I want to translate de-latin1-nodeadkeys back to "Deutsch". That text only occurs in the template's Choices: list. I don't really want to split that into heaps of separate text templates
[02:48] <Kamion> smurfix: I'd suggest asking on #debian-boot; fjp might know, or joeyh
[02:49] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks for the hint.. i found the bug in prebaseconfig
[02:49] <fabbione> Kamion: basically the console detection still relies on devfs
[02:49] <fabbione> and we get it wrong
[02:49] <fabbione>     console=$(mapdevfs "$rawconsole")
[02:50] <fabbione> for general case works fine.. but it misdetect the serial ones :-)
[02:51] <jbailey> Just looking in BugTracking and Uploads and don't see it - do we have anything similar to the (Closes: ####) syntax of debugs?
[02:51] <elmo> jbailey: nope
[02:52] <jbailey> elmo: Tx.
[02:53] <elmo> if someone wants to patch katie to do XML-RPC to bugzilla (or however it is you're meant to talk to it) ... ;-)
[02:53] <jbailey> I think it's XML-RPC.  What language is katie written in?
[02:53] <fabbione> elmo: kill bugzilla
[02:53] <fabbione> :-)
[02:53] <fabbione> and install debbugs.. nobody is watching now!
[02:54] <mjg59> fabbione: Hrm. We really need to track down this ACPI problem.
[02:54] <fabbione> mjg59: really?
[02:54] <mjg59> Several machines have no battery status at the moment
[02:54] <fabbione> mjg59: i agreed with mdz to pull in a 2.6.11-rc2-bkX kernel in hoary/universe
[02:54] <fabbione> so we can see if upstream is fixed or not
[02:54] <elmo> jbailey: grotty python - you don't really need to actually patch katie tho, just give me a function that'll close the given bug numbers with the given text
[02:54] <fabbione> also for other subsystems
[02:55] <fabbione> like ACPI/USB/ACPI/alsa/ACPI
[02:55] <elmo> jbailey: and I dunno that it's worth spending time on, since the long term goal is malone
[02:55] <mjg59> fabbione: Worth a go
[02:55] <fabbione> mjg59: i am going to work on them tomorrow
[02:55] <jbailey> elmo: 'kay.  If I can do it very quickly, I'll send it to you, otherwise I won't worry about it.
[02:55] <fabbione> but it will be kernel team task to handle the rest
[02:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I got a plain 2.6.10 booting on ravel now, so it's _something_, _somewhere_ which causes the mpt thing to fall over.  Haven't tested any real I/O yet, though.
[02:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: NICE!
[02:57] <seb128> fabbione: this kernel just crash (tm)
[02:57] <seb128> kernel_thread_helper
[02:57] <fabbione> mjg59: i did send an invitation for a meeting next week
[02:57] <zul> hello
[02:57] <fabbione> seb128: where does it crash? does it boot?
[02:58] <seb128> no
[02:58] <seb128> it crash 1 sec after grub
[02:58] <fabbione> seb128: or still the inotify stuff?
[02:58] <fabbione> that's cool!
[02:59] <seb128> not really :p
[02:59] <Treenaks> GTK bug!
[02:59] <fabbione> seb128: sillt k7, right?
[02:59] <seb128> correct
[03:00] <mjg59> fabbione: Yeah, saw that
[03:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm surprised e-d-s haven't fallen over in random ways due to linking against both 4.1 and 4.2 yet.
[03:00] <Kamion> fabbione: ah. what is $rawconsole?
[03:01] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok, http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4097 says the latest ACPI patch fixes stuff
[03:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: yep, and now it would be nice to get if fixed before that happens :p
[03:01] <mjg59> Any chance of pulling that in for the next 2.6.10?
[03:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm just reverting to use 4.1, but the system-wide 4.1 instead of the local 4.1
[03:01] <Kamion> fabbione: note that mapdevfs is not actually devfs-specific, despite the name; it doesn't look at the source path, it looks at the major/minor numbers
[03:02] <seb128> Mithrandir: k, thanks
[03:02] <Kamion> fabbione: so don't assume that stuff that uses mapdevfs still relies on devfs - that code is part of the essential compatibility layer :)
[03:02] <fabbione> Kamion: rawconsole is the device.. like /dev/ttyS0
[03:02] <Kamion> fabbione: no I mean what is its value when you run that
[03:02] <fabbione> mjg59: yes, please send me a patch or something..
[03:03] <Kamion>     inst_pid=$(pidof debian-installer | cut -d" " -f1)
[03:03] <Kamion>     rawconsole=$(readlink /proc/${inst_pid}/fd/0)
[03:03] <fabbione> Kamion: vultus5:~# rawconsole=$(readlink /proc/1084/fd/0)
[03:03] <fabbione> vultus5:~# echo $rawconsole
[03:03] <fabbione>  /dev/ttyS0
[03:04] <Kamion> fabbione: ls -l /dev/ttyS0?
[03:04] <mjg59> fabbione: It's probably best to go with the whole thing. They've done the usual thing of not splitting up the acpi-ca patchset (which is the important bit)
[03:04] <fabbione> i don't have the machine in d-i mode now...
[03:04] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, please try that during your next install test
[03:04] <fabbione> Kamion: i will have to look at it again
[03:04] <fabbione> Kamion: sure..
[03:04] <fabbione> mjg59: is it already in linux-2.6 tree?
[03:05] <mjg59> fabbione: Linus's? Should be
[03:05] <pitti> lamont: ping
[03:06] <fabbione> mjg59: can you please check?
[03:06] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok
[03:06] <fabbione> i am really overloaded and you are teh ACPI master here
[03:06] <mjg59> Sure
[03:06] <fabbione> cool
[03:07] <mjg59> http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/cset@1.1938.498.8
[03:07] <Kamion> fabbione: BTW, what console= do you boot with?
[03:07] <mjg59> Is the acpi-ca changes without the rest of the diff
[03:09] <mjg59> fabbione: Skimming the full patch from the bug (http://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/lenb/acpi/patches/release/2.6.10/acpi-20050125-2.6.10.diff.gz) I think we probably want all of it
[03:09] <mjg59> I'll figure out which patches we carry that can be dropped and replaced by that one
[03:10] <carlos> mvo_: around?
[03:12] <fabbione> Kamion: none.. i never had to add console= in debian.
[03:12] <Kamion> ok
[03:12] <fabbione> mjg59: thanks.. 
[03:12] <Kamion> fabbione: also please check whether /dev/ttyS* actually exists in d-i :-)
[03:12] <Kamion> should do, udev is configured to create those
[03:13] <Kamion> at least, I think ...
[03:13] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. but i think they are there.. everything work until immediatly after base-config
[03:13] <Kamion> I mean whether it's called /dev/ttyS0 or /dev/tts/0
[03:13] <Kamion> (or similar)
[03:13] <Kamion> if the latter, everything would work except prebaseconfig
[03:13] <fabbione> Kamion: right..
[03:14] <fabbione> i will check when i can do another install test.. probably tomorrow..
[03:14] <fabbione> right now it's building pitti's crack
[03:14] <fabbione> seb128: i am preparing a stripped k7 kernel for you..
[03:15] <Kamion> at any rate whatever $rawconsole comes out as needs to exist, and I need to know what mapdevfs "$rawconsole" says.
[03:15] <seb128> fabbione: k
[03:15] <fabbione> Kamion: gotcha :-)
[03:15] <fabbione> Kamion: what provides mapdevfs?
[03:15] <fabbione> is that some busybox hack?
[03:16] <Mithrandir> fabbione: nah, something I wrote, it's not in busybox.
[03:16] <fabbione> Mithrandir: where is it?
[03:16] <Mithrandir> di-utils-mapdevfs
[03:17] <fabbione> ok
[03:18] <Kamion> debian-installer-utils source package, via libdebian-installer
[03:21] <mvo_> carlos: yes
[03:21] <carlos> mvo_: could you remove the bu.po file from synaptic?
[03:21] <mvo_> carlos: sure, why?
[03:21] <carlos> mvo_: seems like someone added it by mistake, the right locale is bg.po
[03:22] <carlos> mvo_: there is no bu language
[03:22] <carlos> mvo_: and it's the same content than bg.po (but an older version)
[03:23] <mvo_> carolos: thanks, it's gone
[03:24] <carlos> mvo_: perfect, thank you
[03:29] <pitti> fabbione: #1891 is a kernel bug that is by far too complex for me (and probably also for you)
[03:29] <pitti> fabbione: however, keeping it assigned to me does not really make much sense
[03:29] <pitti> fabbione: any idea what to do with it?
[03:30] <fabbione> pitti: close it
[03:30] <pitti> fabbione: hmm, but the bug is real
[03:31] <pitti> fabbione: it's just nothing that could be fixed by a poor small Ubuntu developer...
[03:32] <zul> poor?
[03:32] <fabbione>  [<c0105dfd>]  sysenter_past_esp+0x52/0x71
[03:32] <fabbione> HMMM
[03:32] <fabbione> this looks so much as the same error in the idiotify patch
[03:32] <fabbione> seb128: new kernel is up
[03:33] <mjg59> fabbione: Shall I mail you the details?
[03:33] <mjg59> (summary: drop 3 patches, apply 1 new one)
[03:33] <fabbione> mjg59: yes please...
[03:33] <fabbione> i need to leave soon
[03:33] <pitti> fabbione: hmm, this bug already existed before the word inotify even existed
[03:33] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok
[03:34] <fabbione> pitti: it still dies in the same place....
[03:34] <fabbione> pitti: anyway.. i have no idea.. reassign it to me..
[03:34] <seb128> fabbione: downloading it
[03:34] <fabbione> one more or one less won't change my 3948398439 bugs due to ACPI/GTK/USB/ACPI/ALSA/ACPI
[03:35] <fabbione> seb128: this one contains only the inotify patch
[03:35] <fabbione> seb128: if it dies in this way..... 
[03:35] <fabbione> JDUB?
[03:35] <mjg59> fabbione: Mailed
[03:36] <fabbione> mjg59: thanks
[03:36] <fabbione> mjg59: that's easy.. how many will it fix?
[03:36] <fabbione> bugs..
[03:36] <zul> fabbione: your bugs are going down...a little
[03:36] <fabbione> zul: uh?
[03:37] <mjg59> fabbione: It deals with 5807
[03:37] <mjg59> Which ought to fix a pile of sleep/wake bugs, too
[03:37] <fabbione> mjg59: and nothing else?
[03:37] <fabbione> ahhhh
[03:37] <dholbach> bbl
[03:37] <mjg59> Various _WAK methods have been broken because of it
[03:38] <fabbione> mjg59: ok.. i will need to wait a day or two before i can upload
[03:38] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@vawad(hoary) ~ > evolution
[03:38] <Mithrandir> zsh: floating point exception  evolution
[03:38] <fabbione> first to identify which of the 3 security patches that i added today makes Baby Jesus cry...
[03:38] <mjg59> fabbione: No problem
[03:39] <fabbione> and see if the new istupify patch works
[03:39] <fabbione> if i only didn't have to go to church today....
[03:40] <jbailey> Is it expected that rookery.ubuntu.com doesn't exist?
[03:40] <tseng> fabbione: i absolve you of your sins. now back to work
[03:41] <jbailey> tseng: Demand patches as penance!
[03:41] <thom> Mithrandir: you've fixed that well, then ;-)
[03:41] <pitti> fabbione: huh, I thought you still have 13 days of freedom^Wbachelor life?
[03:42] <Mithrandir> thom: compiling now, so hopefully, yes.
[03:43] <fabbione> pitti: we need to go and talk with the people there to agree on details
[03:43] <fabbione> jbailey: use the other domain..
[03:44] <jbailey> fabbione: Figured that.  Was wondering if that's a bug.
[03:44] <jbailey> Esp. since the other domain is so annoying to type. =)
[03:45] <fabbione> jbailey: add it to search in resolv.conf ;)
[03:45] <seb128> fabbione: just crash (tm)
[03:45] <seb128> same crash as before
[03:46] <fabbione> interesting...
[03:46] <thom> jbailey: people.ubuntu.com works fine ;-)
[03:46] <elmo> jbailey: why are you using it?
[03:46] <fabbione> seb128: how can i reproduce the bug?
[03:46] <seb128> boot the kernel ? :p
[03:46] <seb128> oh, the inotify
[03:46] <fabbione> no.. the inotify one
[03:46] <seb128> sec
[03:46] <seb128> basically:
[03:47] <seb128> mount a vfat partition on /mnt/vfat
[03:47] <seb128> open nautilus on it
[03:47] <seb128> do "umount /mnt/vfat" somewhere
[03:47] <jbailey> elmo: Following the instructions in BugTracking that says to use rookery:/srv....
[03:47] <fabbione> that implies me having vfat
[03:47] <seb128> not sure
[03:47] <jbailey> thom: Lovely, thanks. =)
[03:47] <seb128> I've not tried with an another kind of fs
[03:47] <elmo> jbailey: ah, yeah.. yeah, it's kind of expected, we're a mishmash of warthogs.hbd.c and ubuntu.c atm
[03:47] <seb128> lemme try with an ext2
[03:48] <Mithrandir> thom: actually, it's probably my kernel.
[03:48] <elmo> jbailey: meh, ignore that REJECT, I'll fix
[03:49] <Mithrandir> why is 2.6.10 so completely broken?
[03:49] <jbailey> elmo: thanks. =)
[03:50] <fabbione> seb128: but if i try to umount it tells me that is busy
[03:50] <elmo> Mithrandir: 'cos Linus is still maintaining it 1/2:/
[03:51] <fabbione> ah ok
[03:51] <fabbione> got it
[03:52] <thully> hi - is array 4 going to be released today?
[03:52] <fabbione> seb128: it's FS indipendent
[03:52] <fabbione> i can get it with nfs
[03:52] <jbailey> elmo: Mmm, haven't seen the REJECT notice.  Do I need to email upload@?
[03:53] <mxpxpod> fabbione: are you working on the fs is busy errors on reboot?
[03:53] <elmo> jbailey: as I said, ignore it
[03:54] <elmo> or, any lack of it
[03:54] <jbailey> *lol*  Gotcha ;)
[03:54] <elmo> actually, no
[03:54] <elmo> you need to use dpkg-buildpackage -m when doing source uploads
[03:54] <elmo> you didn't, and that's why you didn't get the REJECT
[03:54] <elmo> Changed-By: Jeff Bailey <jbailey@ubuntu.com>
[03:55] <elmo> ^-- should be Maintainer
[03:55] <seb128> fabbione: right, just crashed with an ext :p
[03:55] <jbailey> Eh?  Okay.  I thought putting it in the changelog was enough.
[03:55] <jbailey> elmo: Want me to redo it?
[03:56] <elmo> jbailey: nah, it's fine, you just won't get the ACCEPT mail is all
[03:56] <thully> anyone know about this - I talked to someone yesterday and they said array 4 was going to be today - any delays in it?
[03:56] <elmo> hmm, I might be on crack about this - my brain gets very confused by the Maintainer/Changed-By handling
[03:57] <fabbione> seb128: ok i can reproduce both bugs...
[03:57] <elmo> thully: there's plenty of hours left in the day yet
[03:57] <seb128> fabbione: nice :)
[03:57] <jbailey> elmo: Got the ACCEPTED notice.
[03:58] <ogra> jbailey, congrats... your first one ?
[03:58] <jbailey> ogra: Yeah. =)
[03:58] <fabbione> ehhehe
[03:59] <ogra> applause, applause, applause !!!
[03:59] <seb128> jbailey: how do you feel ? :)
[03:59] <Mithrandir> seb128: seriously, I can't debug shit on amd64 atm due to evo getting a SIGFPE due to kernel sillyness.
[03:59] <sivang> jbailey: now you need a cigarrete :)
[03:59] <seb128> Mithrandir: utch
[03:59] <jbailey> seb128: Confused.  I've had to read 3 wiki pages to find all of the steps and I haven't finished submitting the patch to Debian yet.
[03:59] <elmo> oh, MEH
[04:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: I can downgrade the kernel, but that'll have to wait until I get home or something, I'm at uni atm.
[04:00] <jbailey> sivang: Two fingers of scotch might be better. =)
[04:00] <elmo> jbailey: okay, sorry, please ignore the crack about having to use -m, it's Changed-By which matters; the reason you didn't get a reject is katie runs away screaming from things she can't verify the sig on
[04:00] <elmo> I'll fix the wiki page
[04:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: k
[04:00] <ogra> jbailey: if you got a better structure in mind then the MOTU page for the dev docs, feel free to change ;)
[04:01] <ogra> ...improvements are always welcome ;)
[04:01] <sivang> jbailey: especially some insight wrt to cdbs would be appriciated :)
[04:01] <seb128> (cdbs2)
[04:01] <seb128> (multi-build)
[04:03] <sivang> seb128: err, now that's that? ;-)
[04:03] <jbailey> sivang: *lol*  
[04:03] <Treenaks> Crappy Debian Broken Stuff 2?
[04:04] <seb128> trooooool
[04:04] <Treenaks> seb128: sorry :P
[04:04] <sivang> jbailey: btw, why did you write on cdbs's wiki that you don't want to tell us (the savy newbies) about it? that's it secret etc etc :)
[04:04] <jbailey> sivang: cdbs has a wiki?
[04:04] <thom> sivang: because jeff knows cdbs is evil and wrong :-)
[04:06] <Kamion> thully needs to stop coming in, asking a question, and disappearing ten minutes later
[04:06] <sivang> thom: I figured so ;)
[04:06] <sivang> jbailey: common, don't play innocent on me :)
[04:06] <zul> Kamion: yep
[04:07] <jbailey> seb128: I now have apps that need multi-build too so I'm more likely to actually hack on it consistantly. =)
[04:07] <seb128> cool
[04:09] <jbailey> sivang: Seriously, there's a wiki?
[04:10] <sivang> jbailey: yes, lemme find it, tesng pointed me at ti sometime
[04:10] <jbailey> sivang: I merely hack on the damned thing.  I've never made any attempt at documenting it. =)
[04:10] <sivang> jbailey: hehe
[04:11] <Kamion> sivang: the wiki page I think you're referring to is https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial_2fCDBS ?
[04:11] <Kamion> sivang: that talks about "while experimenting [with]  this tool", which would kind of suggest that it wasn't written by the author. :-)
[04:13] <sivang> Kamion: hrm, right, oops (tm)
[04:13] <sivang> :)
[04:14] <dilinger> heh
[04:14] <dilinger>  It |70>< !!!
[04:14] <Kamion> daniels: planning xorg 6.8.1-1ubuntu13 today?
[04:15] <jbailey> sivang: Looks like this wiki is by duck_work (Marc Dequnes if I got the spelling right)
[04:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: what's the bug # of the grub kernel segfault bug?
[04:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: #6082
[04:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, so you didn't file a bug about it yourself?
[04:16] <Kamion> no, I forgot to
[04:16] <Mithrandir> ok
[04:16] <Mithrandir> are you or fabio working on it?
[04:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I sent mail to linux-kernel though
[04:17] <tseng> grr, mailman wont let me subscribe on alioth
[04:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: Sort of. I've been intermittently trying to add printks to the kernel in suspicious areas. I haven't managed to get a test case that isn't grub yet, though.
[04:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.  Tried with noxec=on on bk1?
[04:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I was just about to :-)
[04:18] <sivang> jbailey: yes, actually, I just used it assuming cdbs author has written it :)
[04:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks
[04:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: noexec=off doesn't seem to help matters on the CD, which is weird
[04:18] <daniels> Kamion: yes
[04:18] <Kamion> though I could be doing something wrong
[04:19] <Kamion> daniels: good, thanks
[04:19] <daniels> Kamion: have a few more debconf tweaks to do first
[04:19] <lamont> pitti: ack
[04:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's not a separate switch for 32 bit noexec?
[04:21] <elmo> Mithrandir: no, that's what the problematic patch changed
[04:21] <elmo> removed the noexec32 option and related code
[04:21] <elmo> 'cos noexec32 use to default to off for amd64
[04:22] <Kamion> noexec used to default to off as well
[04:22] <Kamion> rather, noexec=noforce
[04:22] <Kamion> -  noforce (default) Don't enable by default for heap/stack/data,
[04:22] <Kamion> -          but allow PROT_EXEC to be effective
[04:23] <Mithrandir> so does it change if you boot with noexec32=noforce?
[04:23] <Kamion> there's no such option any more
[04:23] <Mithrandir> oh, ok.
[04:23] <Mithrandir> they got merged?
[04:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: see http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/gnupatch@41752e4eX1Y99rE-GhfPoRzKlwh85g
[04:23] <Kamion> yeah
[04:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: -bk1 with noexec=on seems to work ...
[04:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can you reproduce this yourself in the same way?
[04:27] <Mithrandir> I don't have an amd64 system in front of me now.
[04:28] <Kamion> as in right now, or in general you don't have a desktop amd64 system any more?
[04:28] <Mithrandir> as in right now
[04:28] <Kamion> ok, good :)
[04:28] <Mithrandir> I'm at university where I currently have a p4, but getting an amd64 soonish
[04:29] <Mithrandir> does kernel macros have weird semantics?  this looks a bit weird: #define elf_read_implies_exec(ex, have_pt_gnu_stack)(!(have_pt_gnu_stack))
[04:29] <Mithrandir> or is it just so you can say if (elf_r_i_e(0, true)) { ... } ?
[04:31] <AndyFitz> jdub: ping
[04:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: look at fs/binfmt_elf.c; that file gets #included by other C files, and the macro parameterises it.
[04:34] <rubenv> is apache2 install borked?
[04:34] <rubenv> Instellen van apache2-mpm-prefork (2.0.52-3ubuntu3) ...
[04:35] <rubenv> This module does not exist!
[04:35] <rubenv> "Instellen van" is the dutch equiv of setting up
[04:37] <Kamion> T-None: with regard to the ubuntu-desktop issue, try booting today's CD with the 'preseed/file=/cdrom/preseed/ia64-hack.seed' argument
[04:40] <ericf> I must admit it's in bug 5913, too, but would the Ubuntu developers like the idea of making gksudo grey-out the background when it disables X, like gnome-logout does?
[04:41] <rubenv> ericf: gnome-logout does a very crappy grey-out imho
[04:42] <elmo> SYS_0(0x204, 0x7ffffa00, 0x88000282, 0, 0xfc68a60
[04:42] <elmo> what the heck is that?
[04:43] <ericf> rubenv: It fades, which is very slow and shakey. But I mean it should just grey-out the background, so you have visual feedback that you can and should only use the active gksudo window
[04:45] <rubenv> as long as it doesn't hog my pc
[04:45] <rubenv> gksudo shouldn't stay act
[04:45] <rubenv> ive
[04:45] <rubenv> longer then needed :)
[04:45] <rubenv> but i'm a complete nitwit at usability
[04:45] <ericf> its *not* about fading
[04:46] <rubenv> so ignore my opinion :)
[04:46] <elmo> heh; it's a buildd trying to write "no space left on device" to a log file on the same device.. in a loop.  yay for checking return codes
[04:46] <Treenaks> ericf: you mean "only when the password dialog is active", right :)
[04:46] <Treenaks> ericf: (as the password dialog grabs keyboard focus)
[04:46] <ericf> Treenaks: of course
[04:47] <rubenv> otoh
[04:47] <rubenv> i think it would be quite annoying
[04:47] <Treenaks> ericf: I think it's a cool idea to gray out/fade out the desktop when the keyboard is grabbed :)
[04:47] <rubenv> having your screen flashing
[04:47] <daniels> elmo: heh
[04:47] <Treenaks> rubenv: uh.. you can't type in another window anyway..
[04:47] <Treenaks> rubenv: that's the point of grabbing
[04:47] <rubenv> yeah, but going to dark for just that
[04:47] <rubenv> ssh-askpass-gtk2 did that too once
[04:48] <Treenaks> rubenv: it still grabs
[04:48] <Mithrandir> jbailey: #debian-glibc. :D
[04:48] <rubenv> Treenaks: not talking bout grabbing :)
[04:48] <rubenv> i mean the visual feedback named fading 
[04:48] <ericf> well, the current situation is quite confusing, as you just see a window, and the idea of a window is that you can put it next to other windows to use both
[04:49] <rubenv> i'd drop the window border ;)
[04:49] <Treenaks> rubenv: really, graying out is cool :)
[04:49] <Treenaks> but only a small bit.. not too much
[04:49] <rubenv> yeah, else it gets highly annoying
[04:49] <lamont> Kamion: how long do I need to keep the livecd fs iamges for you?
[04:49] <rubenv> perhaps only fade after a couple of seconds
[04:49] <lamont> 5 days history enough?
[04:49] <rubenv> like windooze dus
[04:50] <rubenv> *does
[04:51] <ericf> I'm not talking about a 4-second fading thing, and not about making the screen black&white either. I'd just like to see a slightly greyed background, so it can be done fast, and there is better visual feedback and thus better usability. 
[04:51] <ericf> like Treenaks says
[04:54] <rubenv> my only opinion is that instant greyout could cause highly annoying flashing
[04:54] <ericf> rubenv: point taken :) It should be taken in consideration
[04:57] <Kamion> lamont: more than enough
[04:58] <elmo> nono, keep them FOREVER. oh, no wait, you already tried that ;-)
[04:58] <lamont> elmo: need more disk space.  kthxbye
[05:02] <Kamion> lamont: I haven't had to care about a non-current one yet, but I'm betting somebody will come up with a case at some point that means I have to
[05:04] <marcin_ant>  hi - are there packages with apache Tomcat available for ubuntu?
[05:04] <zul> have you checked universe?
[05:05] <marcin_ant> zul: yup
[05:05] <lamont> marcin_ant: E: Couldn't find package libcommons-modeler-java
[05:05] <lamont> apt-get failed.
[05:06] <lamont> that'd be why the build of tomcat4 is failing
[05:06] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tomcat4/4.1.30-6/
[05:06] <marcin_ant> zul: universe and multiverse too
[05:06] <zul> marcin_ant: what lamont said
[05:07] <marcin_ant> lamont: heh - this means that they are not installable, right?
[05:09] <lamont> marcin_ant: that means that it's not built.
[05:09] <lamont> marcin_ant: and won't be until there's a  libcommons-modeler-java package in multiverse, or someone uploads a new tomcat4 that doesn't need it.
[05:10] <marcin_ant> lamont: ok - I'll try co create package
[05:10] <marcin_ant> lamont: thanks
[05:23] <Kamion> thully: nobody told you that Array CD 4 would be released today
[05:23] <Kamion> 16:23 < Kamion> array-3.5-live is stable, although there's localisation breakage; array 4 is the next milestone and will be tomorrow + whenever the udev bug gets squashed
[05:24] <Kamion> thully: note the last bit; the udev bug has not yet been squashed
[05:24] <Kamion> (to my knowledge)
[05:25] <daniels> Kamion: array 4 totally has to block on 6.8.1-1ubuntu13, btw
[05:25] <Kamion> daniels: yes, that too :)
[05:25] <daniels> Kamion: cool
[05:25] <Kamion> that's why I was asking about it earlier
[05:26] <daniels> Kamion: right
[05:26] <daniels> i just need to beat the last of the 'omg let's not write a file and let's also be silent about that fact' stupidity out of xserver-xorg.postinst.in
[05:27] <Kamion> actually I'd consider releasing with udev unfixed if only because it might draw more attention to it and thus help ...
[05:27] <Kamion> 'cos it doesn't kill the install or anything, just makes it dog-slow for a while
[05:28] <daniels> yeah, I need to do an install-test
[05:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: #debian-amd64; can you test or should I?
[05:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: just seen :)
[05:29] <thom> daniels: oops
[05:29] <Kamion> I was in the middle of a noexec=off test
[05:29] <daniels> thom: yeah.  'it's eatx, really', they said.
[05:29] <daniels> thom: needless to say, it will be returned tomorrow, and exchanged for something that is actually eatx.
[05:30] <thom> nod
[05:36] <lamont> Kamion: amd74xx.ko is insmod'ed by hw-detect - seems to run through drivers/kernel/ide/pci/* in reverse alphabetical order trying to insert them.
[05:36] <lamont> simply removing that module from the kernel on ia64 is probably a good idea - it's known to not work...
[05:36] <lamont> If I remove that file, then we die later...
[05:37] <lamont> cramfs: bad magic
[05:37] <lamont> Unable to identify CD-ROM format
[05:37] <lamont> after the cloop message identifying the fs
[05:37] <Kamion> ah, ok, removing it sounds sane
[05:37] <Kamion> missing ext2-modules udeb?
[05:37] <Kamion> is ext2 compiled into the ia64 kernel?
[05:37] <lamont> could be - will check
[05:38] <Kamion> CONFIG_EXT2_FS=m
[05:38] <lamont> yeah - all 4 images
[05:38] <Kamion> yet there is no ext2-modules udeb
[05:38] <Kamion> fabbione: ^
[05:39] <dholbach> re
[05:39] <Kamion> fabbione: please echo common/ext2-modules > debian/d-i/ia64/modules/ia64/ext2-modules.lnk
[05:39] <lamont> fabbione: and unset CONFIG_BLK_DEV_AMD74XX=m in all 4 ia64 configs too, please
[05:41] <lamont> fabbione: and add ext2-modules.lnk to sparc* and hppa, I expect...
[05:41] <lamont> Kamion: how is amd64 working - it doesn't have that link either
[05:41] <Kamion> uh ...
[05:41] <Kamion> ext2 is =y on several arches
[05:41] <lamont> doh
[05:42] <Kamion> fabbione: cancel what lamont said about sparc and hppa, they're fine as they are
[05:42] <Kamion> ./hppa/32:1339:CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
[05:42] <Kamion> ./sparc/sparc64:1002:CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
[05:42] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - and amd64 as well.
[05:42] <lamont> which would explain it.
[05:42] <Kamion> ./amd64/amd64-generic:2392:CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
[05:42] <Kamion> right
[05:42] <lamont> looks like ia64 is the only problem child
[05:42] <fabbione> re
[05:43] <fabbione> sorry.. i wasn't here
[05:43] <lamont> fabbione: also, note that prf11's slow I/O is a problem introduced between 2.6.8 and 2.6.10, fix unknown. :-(
[05:43] <lamont> fabbione: to sum up:
 fabbione: please echo common/ext2-modules > debian/d-i/ia64/modules/ia64/ext2-modules.lnk
 fabbione: and unset CONFIG_BLK_DEV_AMD74XX=m in all 4 ia64 configs too, please
[05:44] <lamont> and then I ran Kamion down a tangent and back...
[05:44] <fabbione> lamont: done.
[05:44] <Kamion> :)
[05:44] <lamont> fabbione: then I guess we might be ready for -14.
[05:45] <Kamion> gar, this is so annoying, half the kernels I'm building don't support my network card. Can we get that sk98lin update merged upstream?
[05:46] <lamont> mdz here yet?
[05:46] <fabbione> lamont: no.. -14 is going to be a royal pain and i am still working on it
[05:46] <lamont> fabbione: or is that -15? :-)
[05:47] <fabbione> that is -14
[05:47] <bluefoxicy> moooo
[05:47] <fabbione> but i am debugging inotify with upstream
[05:47] <fabbione> and apparently some changes will require also an ABI change
[05:47] <fabbione> = everything needs to be resynced
[05:47] <lamont> fabbione: on the bright side, maybe we can find/fix the I/O issue on hppa
[05:47] <Mithrandir> lamont: any luck with the bushes yesterday or were they still hiding?
[05:48] <fabbione> lamont: do we have a patch?
[05:48] <lamont> Mithrandir: didn't get an answer back from him yesterday
[05:48] <lamont> fabbione: we don't even have a root cause
[05:49] <lamont> fabbione: we have a symptom: 99% of the CPU is spent in hard interrupts while doing disk I/O.  That's bad...
[05:49] <Mithrandir> lamont: ook.  I've got multiarch mostly-working on i386 now, which is kinda nice.
[05:49] <fabbione> lamont: does hppa uses pci irq routing?
[05:50] <lamont> I expect so, could check
[05:50] <fabbione> please do so.. if it does i might have an option for you
[05:52] <fabbione> use something like Linux irqpoll
[05:52] <lamont> fabbione: as in known issue that's already fixed or some such?
[05:52] <fabbione> but you need an Ubuntu kernel
[05:52] <fabbione> lamont: there are plenty of irq routing problems and changes between 2.6.9 and .10
[05:52] <fabbione> that irqpoll is a patch we stole from Alan
[05:52] <lamont> ah - fixed in 2.6.11?
[05:52] <fabbione> no idea :(
[05:52] <lamont> right
[05:53] <fabbione> it could be
[05:53] <fabbione> the plan was to start a .11 packaging branch today
[05:53] <fabbione> but i will have to delay it to tomorrow
[05:53] <fabbione> one fix i got from upstream make baby Jesus cry very hard
[05:55] <lamont> I see.  that gross, eh?
[05:56] <fabbione> lamont: it doesn't even boot with that fix
[05:59] <lamont> fabbione: that's not a fix, then...
[06:00] <fabbione> lamont: eh....
[06:05] <mdz> lamont: here
[06:07] <lamont> oh.  hppa kernel names
[06:08] <mdz> jdub: yes, we have the capability to choose a kernel based on CPU, but we don't ship the extra kernels on the CD (this should work automagically on the DVD)
[06:08] <lamont> hppa32, hppa32-smp, hppa64, hppa64-smp are the current names...
[06:10] <mdz> Package: linux-image-2.6.10-2-64-smp
[06:10] <mdz> Architecture: hppa
[06:10] <mdz> Package: linux-image-2.6.10-2-32
[06:10] <mdz> Architecture: hppa
[06:10] <mdz> etc.
[06:10] <fabbione> the automatic kernel chooser is kinda broken on sparc.. it keeps suggesting -smp instead of up
[06:11] <fabbione> mdz: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/umeta.diff <- sparc support for ubuntu-meta...
[06:11] <mdz> elmo: I seeded gnome-btdownload before uploading it; did something go wrong?
[06:11] <fabbione> mind to review and bless?
[06:12] <elmo> mdz: I do universe by default; there's no way for me to tell if something should be in main without germinate being able to see it
[06:13] <elmo> so everything goes into universe/multiverse and gets promoted up if appropriate afterwards
[06:13] <mdz> ah
[06:13] <mdz> so no point in trying to update the seeds ahead of time
[06:14] <elmo> eh, well, it was only in universe for an hour or so - not sure what the problem is?
[06:14] <daniels> thom: you got your hands on involver?
[06:15] <lamont> mdz: those are old names... that was fixed by -13, iirc
[06:15] <fabbione> yeah or -12
[06:16] <mdz> ah, ok
[06:16] <lamont> mdz: that is, I noticed it when linux-meta (which used the good names) couldn't install because the kernel used the bad names, so I had fabbione do the rename.. yeah - was -12
[06:16] <mdz> elmo: I was just under the impression that it saved time or work if I updated the seeds before you processed the package
[06:16] <rubenv> anyone responsible for apache here?
[06:17] <rubenv> AFAIK, it doesn't do fresh installs, or I've seriously fucked something
[06:17] <elmo> mdz: oh, i suppose in that sense it doesn't matter anymore, yeah.  that's why I switched to universe-by-default, so it didn't cause grief when the seeds weren't updated
[06:18] <mdz> fabbione: ubuntu-meta 0.25 uploaded
[06:19] <fabbione> mdz: thanks!
[06:19] <fabbione> are the changes ok?
[06:19] <Kamion> lamont: if those ever stop beginning with "hppa", please let me know, as I'll need to change base-installer
[06:19] <lamont> Kamion: right
[06:19] <thom> daniels: ages ago, yes
[06:19] <lamont> Kamion: I expect they'll stay 'hppa' forever - not much new hw development there...
[06:19] <Kamion> yep :)
[06:20] <mdz> fabbione: I changed it a bit, but no worries
[06:20] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[06:20] <mdz> rubenv: a bit more detail?
[06:21] <rubenv> mdz: well, I uninstalled apache2, nuked /etc/apache2 and now it refuses to install again
[06:21] <daniels> Kamion: just to be clear -- when running dpkg-reconfigure foo, $RECONFIGURE is set, no?
[06:21] <rubenv> AFAIK, the problem is in the enabling of the cgi mod
[06:21] <rubenv> (that's what I could make of the postinst file)
[06:22] <thom> rubenv: did you uninstall apache2-common?
[06:22] <rubenv> yes
[06:22] <mdz> Kamion: you didn't get any replies on lkml about this grub segfault thing?
[06:23] <thom> and when you install apache2-common, do you have /etc/apache2/mods-available/cgi.load ?
[06:23] <mdz> daniels: no, I believe it's DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE, check the dpkg-reconfigure source
[06:23] <rubenv> thom: no
[06:23] <rubenv> going for a complete nuke again :)
[06:24] <thom> 17:24 ~% dpkg -L apache2-common|grep cgi
[06:24] <thom> /etc/apache2/mods-available/cgi.load
[06:24] <thom> /etc/apache2/mods-available/cgid.load
[06:24] <thom> /etc/apache2/mods-available/cgid.conf
[06:24] <Kamion> mdz: no, there's been some conversation on #debian-amd64 but no fix yet
[06:25] <Kamion> daniels: $DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE
[06:25] <mdz> speaking of which, I ought to change fontconfig
[06:26] <rubenv> thom: 
[06:26] <daniels> mdz, Kamion: thanks
[06:26] <rubenv> those files show up when doing dpkg -L
[06:26] <rubenv> but nothing in /etc/apache2/mods-available
[06:27] <thom> and you've removed apache2-common and reinstalled it?
[06:27] <rubenv> yeah
[06:28] <rubenv> could this be
[06:28] <rubenv> because of some lingering config files
[06:28] <rubenv> i did not purge em afaik
[06:30] <fabbione> lamont: -14 might happen tomorrow
[06:32] <thom> rubenv: interesting
[06:32] <rubenv> this could be more of a dpkg/apt thing then apache 
[06:33] <rburton> mjg59: so my x22 bios disables the local apic. would it be a good idea to turn it on with lapic?
[06:33] <mjg59> rburton: No
[06:33] <mjg59> Trust the BIOS.
[06:33] <rburton> mjg59: balls. that means oprofile sucks
[06:33] <rburton> thanks though
[06:34] <thom> yeah, it's because of the way dpkg handles unpurged conffiles that have gone away
[06:34] <mjg59> Oh. If you /need/ apic support, then give it a go (I think you probably want lapic apic)
[06:34] <pvh> I tried to install Hoary with the installer onto my laptop the other day, and installing the base system failed because I had no floppy.
[06:34] <pvh> It left my system in an unbootable state. (Not even GRUB)
[06:34] <mjg59> Some machines that disable it will work if you force-enable it
[06:34] <mjg59> (Quite a few, in fact)
[06:34] <mjg59> But in general, if the BIOS disables it we trust its decision
[06:35] <rburton> mjg59: what happens if it doesn't work?
[06:35] <Kamion> pvh: because you had no *floppy*? what was the error message?
[06:35] <mjg59> rburton: Your machine hangs, or you don't get interrupts
[06:35] <rburton> eek, noticable then
[06:35] <rburton> bbiab 
[06:35] <pvh> Kamion: It complained that the kernel could not load the floppy module, which meant base failed.
[06:35] <Kamion> I doubt that.
[06:35] <mjg59> pvh: That's not the lack of a floppy, it's the lack of a floppy controller
[06:36] <Kamion> pvh: there'll be a 'modprobe floppy failed' or some such message in the logs, but it's not fatal
[06:36] <pvh> Kamion: Well, there was nothing else in the logs to indicate the problem.
[06:37] <Kamion> pvh: I'd rather see /var/log/* myself than try to diagnose it this way. :-)
[06:37] <pvh> Kamion: If I'd known I wouldn't be able to reproduce the error easily I would have taken more accurate notes.
[06:38] <rubenv> thom: in fact dpkg should stat for missing files
[06:38] <pvh> I'm not familiar with the technique for repairing damaged boot sectors on secondary drives in Linux.
[06:39] <pvh> I'll see if I can mount it on my desktop though and come back with the log for you.
[06:39] <rubenv> thom: want me to file a bug?
[06:39] <mdz> rubenv: you can't simply delete files owned by the package; you need to purge it
[06:39] <rubenv> yeah, I know, but being the lazy ass I am :)
[06:40] <mdz> my point is that doing so broke the package
[06:40] <daniels> Treenaks: could you please bounce me the panel size line (look for 'panel size' or 'Panel Size') from your Xorg.0.log?
[06:40] <rubenv> either way, apt should be a bit more robust on that, especially in /etc
[06:40] <mdz> packages don't generally cope with having their files deleted
[06:40] <rubenv> people have the bad tendency to edit /etc
[06:40] <rubenv> ;-)
[06:41] <mdz> editing files in /etc/ is supported, of course, but if you decide to edit /etc/passwd to contain an ogg vorbis stream of me singing a song, that will cause problems
[06:41] <rburton> mjg59: network and radeon works with "lapic apic" so i'll keep them on
[06:41] <rburton> and oprofile becomes less crap
[06:42] <rubenv> mdz: offcourse nobody 'll do that, but if you delete a config file, shouldn't it be restored on reinstall?
[06:43] <mjg59> rburton: Ok - there's a small risk of hard hangs, but it's probably safe
[06:43] <mdz> rubenv: no, deleting a configuration file is a change that is explicitly preserved
[06:43] <mdz> like any other change to a configuration file
[06:44] <rubenv> ok, then I accept the fact that I was a stupid lazy ass :)
[06:44] <mdz> dpkg has a --force-confmiss flag if you _want_ it to restore the files
[06:44] <mdz> but it won't do so by default
[06:50] <mdz> seb128: here?
[06:51] <rburton> daniels: your SJ problem is something i've been thinking about
[06:52] <rburton> daniels: i think i'm going to solve it with two file name format dropdowns, one for single-artist CDs and one for multiple-artist CDs
[06:53] <mvo_> hi enrico 
[06:54] <seb128> mdz: yep
[06:54] <daniels> wow, it really is getting insane outside now
[06:54] <daniels> rburton: cool
[06:54] <mdz> seb128: filed #6099
[06:54] <mdz> seb128: I think I reported the same bug before, but I couldn't find it
[06:54] <Treenaks> daniels: [1] +  Done                    totem http://www.startrek.com/videouploads/200411/(II) Silicon MotionTFT Panel Size = 1024x768
[06:55] <Treenaks> uhm
[06:55] <Treenaks> daniels: [1] +  Done                    totem http://www.startrek.com/videouploads/200411/(II) Silicon MotionTFT Panel Size = 1024x768
[06:55] <Treenaks> ARGH
[06:55] <enrico> mvo_: hi!
[06:55] <mdz> Treenaks: I used to have a bug like that with xterm
[06:55] <mdz> copying the first line of the displayed portion of the buffer
[06:55] <mdz> would also get the previous line from scrollback or so
[06:55] <Treenaks> mdz: yes!
[06:56] <Treenaks> mdz: entirely correct :)
[06:58] <mdz> my fix was to switch to gnome-terminal ;-)
[06:59] <daniels> Treenaks: WHAT THE FUCK?
[06:59] <daniels> Treenaks: does it really say 'Silicon MotionTFT Panel Size ='?!?
[07:00] <fabbione> Kamion: at which point inside d-i is mapdevfs available?
[07:00] <Kamion> fabbione: from after "retrieving installer components"
[07:00] <fabbione> ok
[07:00] <Kamion> definitely available by the partitioner
[07:01] <fabbione> ok
[07:02] <seb128> mdz: there is some similar bt upstream, but the bugs are closed (not news and recent bugs about this). BTW some fixes have been commited the theme manager this week, perhaps that's fixed, I'll update the package soon.
[07:02] <seb128> mdz: BTW could you install the dbg packages for GNOME (libglib2.0-0-dbg libgtk2.0-0-dbg libgnomevfs2-0-dbg), so next time you get a good bt :)
[07:04] <pvh> Kamion: There are no logs on the partition. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
[07:08] <fabbione> Kamion: confirmed. it's mapdevfs the problem for us.. digging into it now
[07:08] <Kamion> fabbione: what's $rawconsole?
[07:08] <fabbione>  /dev/console
[07:09] <Kamion> ls -l ?
[07:09] <Kamion> pvh: oh well ...
[07:09] <T-Bone> Kamion: got your message in the backlog, will test that, but can't tell when yet ;P
[07:09] <fabbione> crw-rw----    1 root     root       5,   1 Feb  2 18:09 console
[07:09] <fabbione> Kamion: lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            5 Feb  2 17:56 ttyS0 -> tts/0
[07:09] <fabbione> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            5 Feb  2 17:56 ttyS1 -> tts/1
[07:09] <Kamion> I wonder why it's /dev/console, not /dev/ttyS0
[07:09] <fabbione> Kamion: and console = /dev/console
[07:09] <Kamion> mapdevfs doesn't know about /dev/console
[07:10] <Kamion> I suspect if you booted with console=/dev/ttyS0 it would work fine
[07:10] <Kamion> although I have absolutely no idea how it manages to work in Debain
[07:10] <Kamion> Debian
[07:11] <Kamion> fabbione: does /dev/console exist?
[07:11] <fabbione>    0 crw-rw----    1 root     root       5,   1 Feb  2 18:11 console
[07:11] <fabbione> yup
[07:11] <fabbione> it's there
[07:12] <Kamion> having rawconsole=/dev/console is problematic, since it leaves prebaseconfig no way to reliably determine that it's on a serial console.
[07:12] <Kamion> /dev/console could just as easily be a virtual terminal.
[07:12] <pvh> Kamion: I am quite certain that debian-installer reported failure due to insmod failing to load the floppy module however.
[07:13] <Kamion> pvh: do you say this due to a message you saw in the main interface?
[07:13] <pvh> Kamion: in the curses interface yes, and with corresponding messages on VT3
[07:14] <Kamion> pvh: that's not during base installation, though; you reported a problem with the base system failing to install
[07:14] <Kamion> no such error can appear in the curses interface during base system installation
[07:14] <pvh> Kamion: Debian-installer marked the step "Install base system" as having failed.
[07:14] <pvh> And would not proceed beyond that point.
[07:14] <fabbione> Console: ttyS0 (SU)
[07:14] <fabbione> Kamion: that's in dmesg
[07:14] <pvh> Kamion: So I can assure you that whatever the problem may have been, that was where and when it occurred.
[07:14] <fabbione> i think that's because the sparc kernel does the mapping automatically via OBP
[07:14] <Kamion> pvh: "would not proceed"?
[07:15] <Kamion> pvh: I'm sorry, but I can't debug this without exact error messages and logs; what you're reporting conflicts with my knowledge of the code ...
[07:15] <pvh> Kamion: Fair enough, fair enough.
[07:15] <Kamion> so, if you can reproduce it again, that would be great
[07:15] <pvh> Kamion: If I can reproduce it, I'll take detailed notes.
[07:15] <Kamion> thanks
[07:15] <pvh> Kamion: As it is though, I have a lot of code to write and need to get my laptop back online.
[07:16] <Kamion> fabbione: wouldn't that happen in Debian too though?
[07:16] <Kamion> pvh: understood
[07:16] <fabbione> Kamion: i hounestly have no idea... but they use devfs, don't they?
[07:16] <fabbione> so perhpas it does a different mapping...
[07:16] <Kamion> fabbione: sure, but we use udev with devfs rules
[07:17] <fabbione> iirc d-i doesn't create the old compatibility devices..
[07:17] <Kamion> nope
[07:17] <Kamion> our d-i does
[07:17] <Kamion> sometimes
[07:17] <Kamion> check whether /dev/console exists in Debian
[07:17] <Kamion> Debian d-i, I mean
[07:18] <fabbione> yes gotcha
[07:18] <fabbione> i will have to check that
[07:18] <Kamion> fabbione: hm, can you look in /proc/1/fd and see what init has open?
[07:20] <Kamion> fabbione: oh, I think I have an idea
[07:20] <mdz> seb128: ok
[07:21] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. just a sec
[07:22] <Kamion> fabbione: boot with init=/bin/sh
[07:22] <Kamion> fabbione: nano /sbin/init
[07:22] <fabbione> Kamion: there is no fd/0 for pid 1
[07:22] <Kamion> fabbione: add these lines after the similar stuff for /dev/vc inside [ -x /sbin/udevstart ]  (so around line 28):
[07:22] <Kamion>                 mkdir -m 755 /dev/tts
[07:22] <Kamion>                 for i in 0 1; do
[07:22] <Kamion>                         mkdir -m 600 /dev/tts/"$i" c 4 "$(($i + 64))"
[07:22] <Kamion>                 done
[07:23] <Kamion> fabbione: I bet that'll fix it
[07:23] <Kamion> fabbione: oh, then 'exec /sbin/init'
[07:23] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. it takes a little while to boot :-)
[07:27] <mdz> Kamion: did I inadvertently clobber usbutils? argh
[07:27] <mdz> I could have sworn it was unmodified
[07:28] <Kamion> mdz: aye, fixed now
[07:28] <Kamion> elmo gave me a heads-up
[07:29] <mdz> elmo: could you require an explicit clobber request in these situations, to avoid future foolishness?  in my case, at least, if I don't explicitly mention that it obsoletes a modified Ubuntu version, I'm probably making a mistake
[07:30] <fabbione> Kamion: mkdir -m 600 /dev/tts/"$i" c 4 "$(($i + 64))" -> mknod ?
[07:30] <Kamion> fabbione: er, yeah, oops
[07:30] <fabbione> ehhe
[07:30] <fabbione> :-)
[07:31] <fabbione> booting now..
[07:31] <Kamion> fabbione: it took me ages to realise that I needed to add that stuff for /dev/vc when I was originally porting to udev; I'm not surprised I forgot about the serial console case
[07:32] <fabbione> Kamion: if it works you get beer :-)
[07:32] <daniels> amu: aha!!  are you here?
[07:33] <mdz> gah
[07:34] <mdz> Kamion: fontconfig calls fc-cache not once, but twice
[07:34] <mdz> once directly, and a second time indirectly via defoma
[07:35] <amu> daniels: sure, all time 
[07:35] <mdz> the defoma bit is added indirectly by debhelper
[07:35] <Kamion> mdz: er, whee
[07:35] <daniels> amu: is kdelibs-dev in main, or universe?
[07:35] <mdz> I think I'm just going to stop reconfiguring fontconfig in casper
[07:36] <amu> daniels: universe
[07:37] <Kamion> mdz: thully will hate you
[07:37] <daniels> amu: guess what dbus requires for linking with qt ...
[07:37] <fabbione> Kamion: i dunno...
[07:37] <fabbione> Kamion: you are just a FUCKING GENIUS!
[07:37] <fabbione> ~ # echo $rawconsole
[07:37] <fabbione> ~ # echo $console   
[07:37] <fabbione>  /dev/tts/0
[07:38] <Kamion> w00t
[07:38] <fabbione>  /dev/ttyS0
[07:38] <fabbione> there ya go!
[07:38] <amu> daniels: i'll say kdelibs ;)  
[07:38] <daniels> amu: DING DING DING!
[07:38] <amu> daniels: i got a brand new ibm laptop? 
[07:38] <fabbione> Kamion: where does that change need to be done?
[07:38] <Kamion> fabbione: rootskel 1.11ubuntu5 uploaded, thanks for testing
[07:38] <fabbione> Kamion: i mean.. in what package...
[07:39] <fabbione> Kamion: ah.. thanks for fixing :-)
[07:39] <fabbione> now we are down to one problem only..
[07:39] <fabbione> choose mirror
[07:39] <Kamion> it'll need that d-i build
[07:39] <Kamion> s/that/a new/
[07:39] <fabbione> as well
[07:39] <fabbione> we need both choose-mirror and the new d-i
[07:39] <Kamion> yeah
[07:39] <fabbione> and sparc is ready to fly
[07:40] <fabbione> ubuntu-meta is done...
[07:40] <Kamion> well, I can hack choose-mirror to pick sparc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-sparc, independently of talking to sabdfl; I'll do that tonight
[07:40] <fabbione> jdub confirmed the fb problem is gone
[07:40] <fabbione> Kamion: nah
[07:40] <fabbione> let's do it clean
[07:40] <fabbione> it can wait
[07:40] <fabbione> really...
[07:40] <Kamion> I think that's correct anyway, actually
[07:40] <Kamion> the default should be sane ...
[07:40] <fabbione> yeah but sparc is an exception
[07:41] <fabbione> but you are our d-i god...
[07:41] <fabbione> so i am nobody to stop you ;)
[07:41] <Kamion> oh I realise that, but I can easily have architecture-specific defaults in those templates
[07:41] <fabbione> right...
[07:41] <fabbione> i need to go and spend sometime with my future wife :-)
[07:42] <Kamion> have fun :)
[07:42] <fabbione> she is getting a bit impatience.. -10 days :-)
[07:42] <fabbione> thanks
[07:42] <amu> daniels: we should move kdelibs to main     
[07:42] <pvh> Kamion: I'm trying to restore my aborted install.
[07:42] <daniels> amu: you'll have to take that up with mdz/elmo, i'm afraid
[07:43] <daniels> in the meantime, i can hack around it, but I might have to sleep before I upload dbus
[07:43] <pvh> Kamion: Can you advise me about what the bare minimum I can put on the partition to pick up where I left off?
[07:43] <Kamion> pvh: you'll have to start the install from scratch I think
[07:43] <Kamion> pvh: you could install into a smaller scratch partition though
[07:43] <Kamion> our installer has no significant support for resuming halfway through
[07:44] <Kamion> pvh: I'm afraid I have to go now, will be back in a couple of hours
[07:44] <pvh> Kamion: Well, thanks for your advice.
[07:44] <pvh> Kamion: I don't mean to treat this like a help channel, but I'm definitely in uncharted territory.
[07:45] <Kamion> pvh: sure, can't speak for anyone else but personally I don't mind interesting installation problems here :)
[07:45] <zul> fabbione: dont do anything i wouldnt do
[07:45] <Kamion> (of course, the value of "interesting" varies over time ...)
[07:45] <pvh> Kamion: Well, I can only hope that by the time you get back I can say "Oh, I documented it on the wiki."
[07:45] <Kamion> heh
[07:45] <Kamion> or "Oh, I sent a patch" ;-)
[07:45] <amu> daniels: all right, take it easy, takes some time till 3.4 will be released, sleep well 
[07:45] <pvh> Kamion: Even better, and even less likely. ;)
[07:45] <Kamion> FWIW, most of my systems don't have working floppy drives ...
[07:46] <daniels> amu: cheers
[07:46] <amu> mdz: is there any chance to get kdelibs to main 
[07:46] <mdz> amu: yes
[07:46] <amu> daniels: cheers  
[07:47] <amu> mdz: as i remember, please correct me if i'm wrong, it must be supported in order to go into main, right?  
[07:47] <mdz> yes
[07:48] <amu> mdz: the upcomming kde 3.4 supports dbus, therefore we need dbus-qt enabled.   
[07:48] <mdz> ok
[07:48] <mdz> if you upload a package to main which depends on kdelibs, it will move into main
[07:49] <mdz> currently no package in main depends on it
[07:49] <mdz> Kamion: speaking of devices for busybox init
[07:49] <mdz> Kamion: can we switch to using non-devfs names for those?
[07:49] <amu> mdz: thx, got it 
[07:49] <amu> daniels: still awache? 
[07:49] <mdz> Kamion: it would let me remove one of the gross hacks in casper
[07:49] <amu> s/h/k
[07:49] <Kamion> mdz: that's a significantly bigger change and I'd rather leave it until post-hoary
[07:50] <daniels> amu: sure
[07:50] <daniels> amu: will do it
[07:50] <amu> daniels: fire in the hole :)
[07:50] <Kamion> mdz: because it requires auditing all of d-i for /dev use rather than just pulling the wool over its eyes the way we're doing right now
[07:50] <Kamion> mdz: and probably inserting at least one fairly significant compatibility layer
[07:50] <mdz> Kamion: I think we're talking about different things
[07:50] <Kamion> mdz: you should already have the traditional names available as well for most devices, though
[07:51] <mdz> I'm talking about disabling CONFIG_FEATURE_DEVFS in busybox-cvs
[07:51] <mdz> so that it opens /dev/ttyX instead of /dev/vc/X, e.g.
[07:51] <pvh> Can I put 'linux' and 'initrd.gz' onto my laptop drive
[07:51] <mdz> pvh: yes
[07:51] <pvh> into /boot/
[07:51] <pvh> then install grub onto the drive
[07:51] <pvh> and have d-i run on the partition it booted from?
[07:51] <mdz> pvh: yes
[07:52] <Kamion> mdz: I'd still rather leave that until post-hoary
[07:52] <mdz> pvh: in fact I was just recently saying that we ought to have a howto document for it
[07:52] <pvh> mdz: Oh! Well why didn't I think of that before!
[07:52] <mdz> pvh: I would be grateful if you would document the process as you go along, for the sake of others
[07:52] <pvh> mdz: I'll take notes.
[07:52] <Kamion> mdz: that said, it may not be quite as much work as I think, so I'll have a look
[07:52] <mdz> Kamion: it changes a very small amount of code
[07:52] <amu> jdub: ping
[07:52] <mdz> Kamion: essentially only the device names in include/libbb.h
[07:52] <pvh> mdz: The only problem is that /mnt/ has nothing in it right now, so I can't chroot into it for grub installation purposes
[07:53] <Kamion> mdz: yes, but several parts of d-i *will* need to be changed; I know of at least one in prebaseconfig alone
[07:53] <mdz> Kamion: why? I don't follow
[07:53] <mdz> I wasn't suggesting that we stop creating the devfs nodes on disk yet
[07:53] <Kamion> mdz: the bits that try to figure out what kind of console is currently in use
[07:54] <spiral> hi
[07:54] <Kamion> anyway, I really have to run now
[07:54] <mdz> later
[07:54] <pvh> mdz: Can you point me to some documentation on how to write the boot sector on a secondary drive?
[07:55] <pvh> mdz: The grub documentation is, shall we say, untalkative.
[07:56] <mdz> pvh: grub-install <grub-device-spec>
[07:56] <elmo> mdz: the script does require an explicit clobber; I just assumed you wanted to override - I'll double check in the future if the script needs forcing and the request to sync doesn't explicitly say it's overriding
[07:56] <pvh> mdz: I was afraid you'd say that.
 is where it will write stage1
[07:56] <mdz> (hd0) for the first BIOS disk, (hd1) for the second, etc.
[07:57] <pvh> mdz: Do I need to chroot first?
[07:57] <mdz> elmo: thanks, and I'll work on smoking less crack
[07:58] <mdz> pvh: that, or use --root-directory
[07:58] <pvh> mdz: Ahh
[07:58] <pvh> mdz: Can't chroot -- no bin dir yet.
[07:58] <tseng> mdz: if you find a spare moment, would you mind checking on that upload you made for me last night
[07:58] <tseng> mdz: doesnt appear to have made it through the system
[07:59] <mdz> tseng: that's odd. which package was it again?
[07:59] <tseng> tomboy
[07:59] <mdz> hmm, I no longer have the upload on disk
[08:00] <tseng> my source was at http://smarterits.com/~brandon/tomboy/
[08:00] <pvh> mdz: Won't grub-install configure the drive as though it were mounted in its current configuration on my PC?
[08:00] <mdz> tseng: it was just libpanel-applet2-0 -> libpanel-applet-dev, right?
[08:00] <tseng> mdz: yep.
[08:00] <mdz> uploaded
[08:01] <tseng> thanks muchly
[08:01] <mdz> no idea what happened, I remember uploading it
[08:01] <mdz> but I have neither accept nor reject mail about it
[08:01] <tseng> right.. thought id check with you
[08:01] <tseng> never came up on -changes or buildlogs
[08:07] <bluefoxicy> ahhhhhh now to mkisofs the cd
[08:11] <pvh> mdz: Okay, I've got a boot/grub directory now, and a menu item pointing to the install files
[08:12] <mdz> tseng: tomboy_0.3.1-0ubuntu3_source.changes ACCEPTED
[08:12] <tseng> mdz: and a fine lesson on dep checking learned.
[08:12] <tseng> :)
[08:14] <smurfix> doko: ping?
[08:16] <doko> smurfix: pong
[08:16] <smurfix> doko: I've run into this Python 2.4 bug: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1098990&group_id=5470&atid=105470
[08:17] <smurfix> doko: Rather than implement a workaround, pulling that fix from Upstream night be an option until the next point release ..?
[08:18] <doko> sure, will do.
[08:18] <smurfix> doko: Thanks
[08:18] <Mithrandir> doko: I have multiarch working with 3.4 now. :)
[08:19] <smurfix> doko: I could do it myself, but you're the Python giy
[08:19] <smurfix> guy ;-)
[08:19] <doko> Mithrandir: cool ...
[08:24] <Mithrandir> doko: is there anything stopping it getting working with gcc-3.3?  I'd like to not move to gcc-3.4 unless I have to.
[08:35] <daniels> daniels@nanasawa:~/canonical/xorg/arch/pristine% sudo sh -c 'echo "# this file has now been customised" >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf'
[08:35] <daniels> daniels@nanasawa:~/canonical/xorg/arch/pristine% sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
[08:35] <daniels> xserver-xorg postinst warning: not updating /etc/X11/X; file has been
[08:35] <daniels>    customized
[08:35] <daniels> a little rough, but you get the idea
[08:35] <daniels> xserver-xorg postinst warning: overwriting possibly-customised configuration
[08:35] <daniels>    file; backup in /etc/X11/xorg.conf200502030635
[08:37] <doko> Mithrandir: what is the goal working on multiarch with gcc-3.3?
[08:39] <Mithrandir> doko: that I can get something stable working now so I can concentrate on stuff I break with multiarch rather than stuff which is broken in gcc-3.4
[08:39] <tritium> daniels, slick
[08:39] <mdz> daniels: can we get an extra '.' in that backup filename?
[08:41] <daniels> mdz: hence 'a little rough' -- already fixed
[08:41] <daniels> mdz: all that's left for ubuntu13 is pulling a better version of my loader speed hack and then no-oping speedo within that
[08:42] <doko> Mithrandir: not that I know of ... we disabled biarch for 3.3, because it didn't correctly work
[08:48] <Mithrandir> doko: hm, ok.
[08:48] <Mithrandir> I most likely won't bother with it and ignore any problems I stumble into which seems to be gcc-3.4 internal problems.
[08:50] <rcaskey__> is there an official procedure for becoming an ubuntu mirror? The Uni I work at just got a hd upgrade to the linux server and is pondering picking up debian and I'm trying to get Ubuntu on the list as well
[08:51] <pvh> Kamion: Just so you know, I managed to get my system back into d-i.
[08:51] <pvh> Kamion: Here's the short tutorial, which with a little prodding, I can flesh out into a proper installer section.
[08:52] <pvh> Kamion: 1) format and mount the partition you want to install to
[08:52] <pvh> Kamion: 2) grub-install <drive name> --root-directory=<mountpoint>
[08:52] <pvh> Kamion: 3) put a kernel and an initrd.gz into the /install/ folder
[08:53] <pvh> Kamion: 4) create a menu.lst file pointing to those files
[08:53] <pvh> Kamion: The only caveat is to make sure that the menu.lst points to what the drive _will_ be in the destination system.
[08:54] <pvh> Kamion: That, and I suppose picking the right vmlinuz/initrd.gz
[08:54] <pvh> Kamion: I gunzipped the initrd.gz because I had difficulty with it earlier.
[08:58] <fabbione> jbailey: nagios plugin is still FTBFS :-)
[08:58] <fabbione> jbailey: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/n/nagios-plugins/1.3.1.0-12ubuntu1/
[08:59] <zul> fabbione: ping sorry 
[09:00] <jbailey> Meh.  I thought build-deps were fine, just not actual depends for installation?
[09:00] <mdz> rcaskey__: http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/Archive
[09:00] <mdz> jbailey: packages in main must build with only packages in main
[09:03] <jbailey> mdz: I'm not sure what the right thing here is then.  I can disable the radius functionality completely, I guess.  It seems like the wrong answer though.  I can understand not wating to push more stuff into main, though.
[09:03] <elmo> just like, err, Debian
[09:03] <mdz> jbailey: is it not possible to build nagios plugins out-of-tree?
[09:04] <jbailey> mdz: Yes.  They're just little scripts that take parameters and return error codes.  stdout is captured for logging, and the error codes let it know if it's a failure or a success.
[09:04] <elmo> I don't mind promoting the radius _libraries_
[09:04] <mdz> that was the resolution we applied for php4-imap
[09:04] <elmo> hmm, well i suppose the client still gets pulled into extra.. meh
[09:05] <mdz> extra goes into universe, no?
[09:05] <mdz> I thought the issue was with a radius server
[09:05] <mdz> if it's only libraries, that's less of a support issue
[09:06] <elmo> the original nagios-plugins pulled in some random radius client software  too
[09:06] <elmo> but I think jbailey fixed that already
[09:07] <elmo> so, shall I just pull in the radius libs?
[09:07] <jbailey> I moved the radiusclient to suggests.  But it still build-dep's libradius1-dev
[09:07] <jbailey> I can split it out easy enough.
[09:07] <elmo> seems a bit OTT to just avoid libraries - we have bazillions of random libraries already
[09:09] <daniels> elmo: can we have libc-client too?
[09:09] <elmo> daniels: you can have a burnt stick in the eye; how's that?
[09:09] <daniels> elmo: sensational!
[09:10] <daniels> at that price, I'll take two
[09:10] <jbailey> daniels: Friends don't let friends use php-imap.
[09:10] <daniels> s/-imap//
[09:11] <mdz> elmo: which radius libs are they?
[09:11] <elmo> libradius1{,-dev}
[09:11] <elmo> or do you mean which fork?
[09:12] <mdz> yeah, but that answered that too
[09:12] <mdz> it's the Livingston library, oh god
[09:12] <mdz> oh, no it isn't, it's the MERIT one
[09:12] <mdz> that's somewhat less scary
[09:13] <jbailey> mdz: All radius libraries suck.   They really do. =)
[09:13] <mdz> we ought to check whether it has had all 10,000 RADIUS vulnerabilities fixed
[09:13] <bluefoxicy> the last metroid is in captivity
[09:13] <daniels> amu: please try the dbus debs from http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/dbus/ and let me know if they're any good for you
[09:13] <bluefoxicy> JUSTIN BAILEY *samus out of suit* But we're going to blow crap up anyway
[09:14] <amu> daniels: thx, 12h later is fine for y? i'm testing the live atm ...   
[09:14] <daniels> amu: sure
[09:14] <jbailey> mdz: Here, I'll just pull it for now.
[09:15] <jbailey> mdz: We can always leave it disabled for now - I don'timagine there are acually that many radius servers still running out there.
[09:15] <mdz> jbailey: that's what we did with php4-imap, and we didn't get around to fixing it until the next release
[09:15] <mdz> does dialup RAS equipment no longer use RADIUS?
[09:16] <mdz> it still did 4 years ago
[09:16] <fabbione> re
[09:16] <fabbione> or tatacs
[09:16] <daniels> elmo: sorry about the ud-l spam to da-m (again)
[09:16] <jbailey> Dialup RAS usually does  RADIUS, TACACS+, or NT Domain authenication.
[09:16] <fabbione> zul: fast pong?
[09:17] <jbailey> fabbione: Any of them that you'd recommend for main?  I could just patch it to use yours.. =)
[09:17] <fabbione> jbailey: client.. not server :-))
[09:17] <fabbione> and not in main. sorry
[09:17] <jbailey> fabbione: client is the issue here.  nagios needs a library to tell if a server is up.
[09:18] <fabbione> jbailey: that can be easily done using the nagios tcp/udp check
[09:19] <jbailey> fabbione: Assuming the server isn't hung solid.  But I agree that it's probably good enough for now, with a nagios plugin in universe for radius.
[09:19] <fabbione> otherwise steal the code from a simple client like libpam-radius-auth
[09:20] <jbailey> That would work.  I'll just graft it in.
[09:23] <zul> fabbione: there was a patch in upstream that disable acpi for pnp devices do you want to submit a bug or something?
[09:23] <fabbione> zul: i don't understand... 
[09:23] <fabbione> a patch disabled acpi on pnp devices...
[09:23] <fabbione> and do i need to do what?
[09:24] <zul> fabbione: ill describe it better in bugzilla my mind is moosh right now with head cold
[09:24] <fabbione> ehehe ok
[09:24] <fabbione> i am off 100% now.. FOOD
[09:24] <zul> k
[09:27] <daniels> hm, electricity is out at our old house, which is only about 800m away
[09:27] <daniels> lucky break
[09:29] <zul> we had a lot of power outages since they have built that big arena in my area
[09:30] <daniels> we're just having quite incredibly wild storms and a bucket of rain
[09:30] <daniels> apparently there are no traffic lights on mega arterial roads
[09:30] <daniels> all shorted out; half the city has no power
[09:31] <zul> ouch...where do you live?
[09:31] <daniels> and a power pole exploded (6m tall, exploded down to the stump) when the transformer was hit by lightning :)
[09:31] <daniels> melbourne, .au
[09:31] <elmo> isn't it obviousl? ;-P
[09:31] <zul> heh
[09:32] <elmo> [how to insult 1/3 of your cow-orkers in one simple statement - lessons in life by elmo #345] 
[09:32] <zul> it could be worse
[09:33] <daniels> elmo: yeah, some sort of crazy-arse land where people actually own more than two t-shirts ... heretics
[09:33] <elmo> eh?
[09:34] <daniels> elmo: go buy a represent shirt already; not only will it double the size of your wardrobe, but it will give me $us1
[09:35] <elmo> dude, I so have more than two tshirts; granted, several of them look identical, but nevertheless
[09:35] <elmo> you really only get us$1 from the sale?
[09:35] <daniels> really.  i set my margins low, because I'm so generous.
[09:35] <daniels> and even with my rock-bottom prices, you bastards still don't buy my gear :P
[09:37] <elmo> I will.. when I can :P
[09:37] <daniels> heh
[09:37] <zul> frig...not another fundraiser
[10:11] <T-None> gnight
[10:16] <sivang> T-None: night
[10:16] <thully> does anyone know what the status of array 4 is?
[10:23] <mdz> there is a showstopper bug in X at the moment
[10:23] <thully> what - is it the issue I had with X not starting?
[10:24] <Kamion> thully: I already told you earlier that I was waiting for somebody to get a handle on the udev bug
[10:24] <mdz> if you tried a recent daily CD, yes, porbably
[10:24] <mdz> that too
[10:24] <Kamion> repeatedly asking is not going to change that :-)
[10:25] <mdz> though I haven't been encountering the udev bug lately
[10:25] <Kamion> the X bug is, in retrospect, more of a showstopper, in that I'd probably be willing to release array cd 4 without the udev bug fixed, but I'd have to test a fair bit
[10:26] <Kamion> and, of course, there's the amd64 grub breakage, but that was in array cd 3 too
[10:26] <mdz> Kamion: are you going to be around for a bit?  I'd like to talk about netcfg sometime soon
[10:26] <Kamion> thully: however, my fiancee wants me at her house now, so it will definitely not be today; I didn't promise today anyway
[10:26] <Kamion> mdz: no, sorry
[10:26] <mdz> ok, tomorrow then
[10:26] <Kamion> see above :-)
[10:29] <thully> OK - got to go - bye
[10:38] <daniels> jdub: 'morning captain
[10:38] <dholbach> O Captain, my Captain... :-)
[10:41] <jdub> seb128: 0.22 didn't have any significant changes on top of what we have :)
[10:43] <seb128> k
[10:44] <seb128> still no inotify working ?
[10:57] <jdub> works for me :)
[10:59] <enrico> jdub: morning.  Elmo's setting up our (we == docteam) canonical svn repository and needs a mail to send commits to.  A ubuntu-doc-commits list would be great: is it possible to have it?
[11:00] <jdub> sure
[11:00] <enrico> ouch!
[11:01] <jdub> that's for using svn!
[11:01] <enrico> plans are to migrate to baz, but a prerequisite was to have a sandbox to play with
[11:01] <enrico> no sandbox found yet, and it's controversial if baz is ready for usage by less literate people yet
[11:02] <enrico> but long term plans are to migrate to baz when it's ready (for some non-pioneer definition of ready :)
[11:06] <mdz> enrico: I see that lifeless followed up with you; hopefully you can have a meeting to discuss it
[11:06] <mdz> I'd love to see the doc team on baz if it is feasible
[11:10] <mxpxpod> why is magicdev in the default session for GNOME if gnome-volume-manager is already
[11:10] <mako> tseng: http://cplug.net/conference/
[11:11] <jdub> mxpxpod: it's a failover
[11:11] <mako> tseng: that's in ha-burg, someone was sending this to info. i guess they're interestd in an ubuntu presence
[11:11] <mxpxpod> jdub: huh?
[11:11] <mako> tseng: if you're interested, i can connect you
[11:11] <jdub> mxpxpod: it'll load if it's there
[11:11] <mxpxpod> oh, ok
[11:11] <enrico> mdz: followed up.. where?
[11:12] <ajmitch> morning
[11:13] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[11:14] <enrico> mdz: I wouldn't mind to discuss that, but I'd really like not to embark on that before hoary releases
[11:15] <mdz> enrico: as you can see from my earlier messages, I'm even more cautious about it
[11:16] <mdz> enrico: followed up to ubuntu-doc, of course
[11:16] <mdz> he CCed me, and Sean Wheller
[11:16] <srbaker> can someone tell me what multiarch is?
[11:16] <enrico> mdz: I can't find his mail, I'll try again
[11:17] <enrico> mdz: can't find it because I didn't get it; however Sean quoted him in the list
[11:17] <enrico> I could remind something about the mail, but I couldn't reply the mail itself, nor I could find it
[11:17] <mdz> it's not in the list archives
[11:17] <mdz> but ubuntu-doc was in the To: header
[11:18] <mdz> probably it is in the moderation queue
[11:18] <mdz> yes, it is
[11:18] <mdz> moderated
[11:18] <ajmitch> mako: CoC should be attached this time
[11:18] <mako> ajmitch: :)
[11:20] <sivang> night everyone
[11:20] <sivang> Zzzz
[11:22] <enrico> mdz: Heading to bed, I'll reply to that tomorrow: thanks!
[11:22] <dholbach> sleep tight sivang
[11:24] <sivang> dholbach: tnx, night
[11:24] <enrico> jdub: please drop me a note as soon as you have the commit list ready, as I need to communicate that to Elmo
[11:24] <jdub> enrico: will do
[11:25] <elmo> or just tell me :)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> uhm, why isn't there an ubuntu-calendar-february on amd64, just on i386?
[11:27] <mxpxpod> Mithrandir: it's on powerpc too ;)
[11:28] <pitti> good night
[11:28] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i have it on amd64
[11:28] <jdub> ah, crap
[11:29] <jdub> now i'm getting spam with list ids
[11:29] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yeah, just maswan's mirror being out of date.
[11:29] <Mithrandir> maswan: you mirror is out of date.
[11:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: did you get anywhere with the ia32 problem?
[11:35] <daniels> mdz: think I've slammed everything through, but need to catch a couple of hours.  to get connectivity back, I'd need to reboot my workstation (acx111 is flaky), and it's in the middle of a build, so no.  debconf, live CD, FTBFS, everything but i810 CRTs (and I might be picking up an i845 later today) should all be fixed with this stuff.
[11:36] <mdz> daniels: perhaps I could upload a version with the dexconf fix?
[11:37] <daniels> mdz: not worth bothering.  by the time it hits the archives, I'll be up and looking over this build success, and sending it out for testing on davis and concordia before I upload.
[11:40] <daniels> mdz: (assuming, say, 15min for the upload to katie, 10min for the buildds to get kicked, 2-3h [maybe more?]  for halley to build it, 10min for katie to notice upload, 15min to get included in a pulse; by that time, I've already uploaded ubuntu13, pretty much)
[11:59] <lifeless> evolution sucks, kthnxbye
[11:59] <lifeless> ps x | grep spamd | wc -l
[11:59] <lifeless> 43
[11:59] <lifeless> just got back 800Mb of RAM.
[12:00] <HrdwrBoB> it's evolutions fault spamassasin sucks?