[12:03] <jdub> yeah, largely
[12:04] <jdub> the way it attempts to run spamd, etc.
[12:04] <jdub> mdz: there?
[12:04] <maswan> Mithrandir: Well, hopefully it will sync ok tonight then
[12:05] <Mithrandir> maswan: ook
[12:05] <Mithrandir> maswan: it's a daily sync, only?
[12:05] <lifeless> HrdwrBoB: completly evos fault. its got bugs open upstream.
[12:05] <HrdwrBoB> ahr
[12:05] <lifeless> evo *should* have one spamd and one spamc. thats 2 processes.
[12:06] <maswan> Mithrandir: Yeah, we used to do more, but we got too many "too many rsync processes" mails
[12:07] <Mithrandir> maswan: hmkay.
[12:07] <maswan> Mithrandir: So I guess pending proper ftpmaster with password-protected mirror-sync-modules for registered primary mirrors...
[12:07] <maswan> well, that or ignoring error messages, but that's not good in the long run either
[12:07] <Mithrandir> maswan: yeah, that'd make sense.
[12:08] <Mithrandir> maswan: rsync should have an option to ignore a certain set of error messages, like "refused due to too many connections", then
[12:08] <Mithrandir> maswan: anyhow, you know if Kamion managed to track down the ia32-thingy-problem?
[12:09] <maswan> Mithrandir: Yeah, but rsync is only smart in some regards, not all the regards one would want to to be smart in.
[12:09] <maswan> Mithrandir: No, not really. I didn't keep track of that.
[12:09] <Mithrandir> you've got the source. ;)
[12:09] <maswan> Yes, but it is _rsync_ source. ;)
[12:13] <srbaker> what is multiarch?
[12:16] <netdur> you should rename "gnome bittorrent" to "bittorrent downloader" or something more HIG'er
[12:18] <Mithrandir> maswan: dude, I'm getting the patch for ld into sarge now, I've bloody compiled gcc about fifty times during the last week and am going to work on multiarch until mid-june. :P
[12:23] <srbaker> isn't there an ubuntu-sponsored arch client?
[12:23] <Mithrandir> bazaar
[12:24] <srbaker> link to info on that?
[12:24] <jdub> bazaar.canonical.com
[12:26] <lifeless> daniels: is '<unknown>' in xrestop a exited, leaking application ?
[12:29] <srbaker> i find arch a bit of a pain int heass.  i've been using monotone :)
[12:31] <lamont> really need to fix that router
[12:33] <Mithrandir> lamont: why isn't linux32 built on amd64?
[12:41] <lamont> %linux32: i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc                    # only useful for 64-bit architectures
[12:41] <lamont> fixed
[12:42] <lamont> Mithrandir: although you'll probably need to poke elmo to have that make a difference to hoary
[12:42] <infinity> lamont : There's arm64 too, in some strange parts of the world.
[12:43] <infinity> lamont : Then again, I don't know if Linux supports it..
[12:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: I think he just fixed it.
[12:44] <Mithrandir> lamont: it's universe for some fucked reason.
[12:44] <Mithrandir> it should be supported, at least.
[12:45] <infinity> Mithrandir : Nah, he just added amd64 to the line.
[12:46] <Mithrandir> ah, sorry, I read arm64 as amd64
[12:46] <Mithrandir> thought you were sarcastic :)
[12:46] <infinity> Mithrandir : I'd argue that the line should just be "%linux32: !m68k !alpha", since alpha is always 64 bit, and m68k is the only arch that can't have a 64-bit kernel (in theory).
[12:48] <mdz> jdub: here
[12:48] <mdz> was on the phone
[12:49] <infinity> lamont : Thoughts?
[12:50] <YokoZar> I just finished my winetools package.  Would someone like to review it/sponsor an upload to Debian?
[12:50] <dholbach> had had enough action tonight... i'm off to bed
[12:52] <lamont> infinity: probably - I could almost certainly be talked into changing the line later.
[12:52] <infinity> lamont : Well, I could change it right now. :)
[12:52] <dholbach> sleep tight everyone
[12:53] <infinity> lamont : It's just that when my pet port is one of the only ports that CAN'T use m68k, I'm hardly an authority on the subject.
[12:53] <infinity> s/m68k/linux32/
[12:53] <infinity> Wow.  I need a new brain.
[12:57] <netdur> I changed reslation to 1024*768... when I log out, only part of gdm apear, I have to reboot X to get it right, but then after loggin, gnome says something about panel still running and stop loading, but desktop's right-click still works which allowed me to start terminale to "sudo reboot"
[12:59] <netdur> I'm running up-to-date hoary
[12:59] <eruin> netdur: ----> #ubuntu methinks
[01:00] <netdur> I'm reporting about problem not looking for help
[01:00] <eruin> oh, excuse me then ;)
[01:05] <pvh> Kamion: Hey there. Did you see my messages?
[01:09] <jdub> mdz: are we using liveseed yet?
[01:09] <jdub> amu: ping
[01:10] <mdz> jdub: nope
[01:10] <jdub> how much room do we have left?
[01:10] <lamont> mdz: liveseed will turn into ubuntu-live, yes?
[01:10] <mdz> lamont: if that's what you require, I suppose so
[01:10] <lamont> s/require/desire/
[01:10] <lamont> it'd be (1) consistant, and (2) make my life easier.
[01:11] <elmo> P-a-s updated
[01:11] <mdz> jdub: 497M - <size of OpenCD stuff>
[01:11] <jdub> oh, opencd stuff is already on there?
[01:11] <mdz> no, but it will be for release
[01:11] <mdz> and is therefore a factor in how much room we have for liveseed stuff
[01:12] <jdub> we have 497MB free?
[01:12] <mdz> er...no :-)
[01:12] <mdz> make that 153M - <size of OpenCD stuff>
[01:12] <jdub> ok
[01:12] <jdub> lamont: how big was opencd for warty?
[01:13] <wasabi> Package version question, example: 2.8.1-0ubuntu2
[01:13] <wasabi> When the 2 becomes 10... does apt handle that? :0
[01:14] <mdz> wasabi: dpkg --compare-versions
[01:14] <jdub> lamont: did we have anything left that we could dump?
[01:14] <lamont> jdub: after we pruned it, not so bad.
[01:14] <mdz> yeah, we dropped some stuff for Warty
[01:14] <lamont> we dumped celestica from the opencd stuff to make things fit
[01:15] <jdub> left after warty purging
[01:15] <lamont> jdub: technically, the whole thing is prunable - it's just a question of how much you want to trade off...
[01:16] <wasabi> cool it's smart.
[01:16] <jdub> what's on there now?
[01:16] <jdub> - firefox
[01:16] <jdub> - openoffice.org
[01:16] <jdub> - thunderbird?
[01:16] <mdz> jdub: ~100M
[01:17] <mdz> 13M     bin
[01:17] <mdz> 100M    programs
[01:17] <mdz> 3.8M    disctree
[01:17] <mdz> 52K     start.exe
[01:17] <mdz> 512     start.ini
[01:17] <mdz> 116M    total
[01:18] <mdz> abiword  audacity  firefox  gimp  openoffice  pdfcreator  thunderbird
[01:18] <jdub> ta
[01:18] <jdub> hmm
[01:18] <mdz> there isn't any point in removing things until we run out of space
[01:19] <lamont> and the dvd should have install+live+full openCD
[01:19] <jdub> i'm not suggesting we do, i'm getting an idea of what we could remove
[01:19] <mdz> lamont: any idea what the compression ratio is for the non-empty portion of the cloop?
[01:19] <mdz> do you save the create_compressed_fs output?
[01:20] <lamont> .../current/...out
[01:20] <pvh> My fresh Hoary net-install did not create any xorg.conf at all, just an empty file.
[01:21] <pvh> When I run dexconf, it overflows.
[01:21] <pvh> By that I mean that it has an unexpected end of ofile.
[01:21] <lamont> mdz: http://.../~buildd/livecd/livecd-current.out
[01:22] <mdz> which one is i386?
[01:22] <lamont> or ~buildd/livecd/YYYYMMDD/livecd-YYYYMMDD-ARCH.out
[01:22] <lamont> terranova
[01:25] <mdz> looks like 0.37
[01:25] <mdz> not bad at all
[01:26] <mdz> so we only pay for a bit over 1/3 of installed-size for things we want to add
[01:31] <sladen> is /usr/share/doc binable>
[01:32] <jdub> no, livecd should really carry everything available on the desktop
[01:32] <jdub> we wouldn't be able to demo our elite debian doc / yelp integration if we killed all the docs
[01:45] <darklight> fabbione dong
[01:53] <mjg59> Is it possible to remove a package from universe?
[01:54] <elmo> sure?
[01:56] <mjg59> laptop-mode-tools probably shouldn't be there
[01:56] <mjg59> We've got laptop-mode in main
[02:00] <elmo> should that be resolved by pushing our laptop-mode to Debian?
[02:00] <elmo> and/or some other merging?
[02:03] <mjg59> The right way is probably to move laptop-mode-tools to main and drop laptop-mode
[02:03] <mjg59> But I'd need to speak to thom about that
[02:04] <elmo> bug Thom is always the best way forward ;)
[02:04] <elmo> bugging thom even
[02:10] <mjg59> What would generate the following in kernel logs:
[02:10] <mjg59> jmfw: dropped: IN=ath0 OUT= MAC=00:05:4e:42:49:77:00:09:5b:3d:9b:78:08:00 SRC=198.93.112.61 DST=10.19.72.6 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=234 ID=574 PROTO=TCP SPT=80 DPT=36586 WINDOW=16060 RES=0x00 ACK URGP=0 
[02:10] <mjg59> ?
[02:10] <mjg59> Is that standard netfilter?
[02:10] <YokoZar> jdub: I finished my winetools package.  Care for a peek?
[02:11] <mjg59> Anyone here using madwifi drivers?
[02:12] <jdub> YokoZar: bit busy atm - is it in your winehq repo?
[02:12] <YokoZar> jdub: yeah.
[02:12] <jdub> ok, will have a look later
[02:13] <elmo> mjg59: 'ath0'?
[02:13] <elmo> but yeah, that's standard netfiler
[02:13] <YokoZar> I'd like a sponsor to up it to debian too
[02:15] <mjg59> elmo: madwifi
[02:17] <mdz> mjg59: I am
[02:17] <mdz> yes, that's the standard (read: HORRIFIC) netfilter log format
[02:18] <mdz> so any LOG rule would generate one of those
[02:19] <mjg59> mdz: Have you seen any issues with madwifi and laptop-mode?
[02:20] <mjg59> I'm leaning towards it being some strange interaction between netfilter, madwifi and laptop mode, rather than just being the latter two
[02:27] <mdz> mjg59: the atheros card I have is not in a laptop
[02:28] <mjg59> mdz: Ah, right
[02:28] <mdz> I do have a pcmcia atheros card, but I don't use it anymore because the new laptop has ipw2200
[02:28] <mdz> I could try to reproduce the bug
[02:32] <daniels> lifeless: i don't know, sorry
[02:32] <daniels> mjg59: i haven't seen that bug, no
[02:32] <mjg59> daniels: You have a madwifi laptop?
[02:32] <daniels> i mean, sometimes I don't get packets out when I don't remove ath_pci around suspend/resume, but that's it
[02:32] <daniels> mjg59: yah
[02:32] <mjg59> Isn't your X40 an Intel?
[02:38] <daniels> mjg59: nope, ath
[02:39] <mjg59> Oh, wow
[02:39] <mjg59> Ok
[02:48] <lifeless> daniels: ah well, thanks anyway. If you do figure out what unknown is, I have a couple ;)
[02:48] <daniels> lifeless: heh
[03:03] <jdub> dudes
[03:03] <jdub> mjg59 is sleeping around
[03:04] <jdub> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=146966
[03:05] <AndyFitz> how promiscuous
[03:05] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*
[03:05] <jdub> everyone like february's calendar?
[03:08] <wasabi> Wow
[03:08] <wasabi> this CD upgrade stuff is awesome.
[03:08] <wasabi> props to whomever is responsible for that
[03:09] <AndyFitz> yeah feb calendar is great.   lots of colour integrity in the png too :)
[03:12] <AndyFitz> jdub:  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/ubuntu-background-calendar-february.png
[03:12] <daniels> jdub: sass.
[03:17] <jba> hey guys, just popped in to say thanks for your help 2 days ago wrt DSDT
[03:17] <jba> works a treat
[03:17] <jba> finally got round to testing it
[03:17] <jba> now how do I go about adding how I did it to the wiki?
[03:21] <daniels> fabbione: oooh! oooh! oooh! still taking suggestions for patches while you're breaking ABI?
[03:22] <tritium> mjg59, did you come up with anything you'd like me to test re: acpi-support?
[03:22] <daniels> fabbione: http://lisas.de/~andi/acx100/acx100-0.2.0pre8_plus_fixes_45.tar.bz2
[03:22] <mjg59> tritium: Not tonight, I'm afraid
[03:22] <daniels> fabbione: acx111 is *apparently* usable with that (it actually recalibrates the radio; right now, it drops out randomly and I have to reboot to get it back, this is meant to fix that)
[03:22] <tritium> no problem.  I've been trying a few different things on my own.
[03:22] <daniels> fabbione: so if we could get that, that would be fantastic
[03:25] <tritium> mjg59, surprisingly, I'm having better pwr. mgmt. results using NvAGP rather than agpgart with.
[03:26] <mjg59> tritium: Really? That's kind of impressive
[03:26] <tritium> (reverse the order of those last 2 words)
[03:26] <tritium> yeah, I was surprised
[03:29] <jdub> AndyFitz: yeah
[03:34] <wasabi_> Should I be discussing hoary array 3 in the #ubuntu channel or here? (i have a problem)
[04:11] <jba> jdub, thanks for the tip on dsdt, I was disbelieving that all i had to do was cat the file to initrd but it worked
[04:22] <tseng> mako: that conference you mentioned...
[04:23] <tseng> mako: if you look at the speakers list, im already signed up for 2 talks
[04:23] <srbaker> shit
[04:23] <mjg59> jba: Before Hoary, it ought to be possible to just copy your DSDT to a file and generate an initrd automatically
[04:23] <srbaker> can someone echo their /etc/hosts here for me?  i removed mine, and i forget the default values
[04:24] <jba> mjg59, i just didn't believe it could be that simple, but was happy when it worked
[04:26] <mjg59> jba: We aim to make it simpler :)
[04:26] <mjg59> Sadly, it's unlikely that we can make it automatic
[04:27] <jba> yeah i read on the mailing list
[04:28] <jba> sucks about the asl compiler
[04:28] <jba> asl ? asml ?
[04:28] <tseng> mako: ping me back then
[04:32] <toresbe> hah, asl compiler
[04:32] <toresbe> "I'm slowly unrolling the loops.... ooh, an integer! Increase, increase, HARDER"
[04:46] <jba> toresbe, i don't get it
[05:03] <daniels> crikey -- http://home.iprimus.com.au/remfrey/juliette/images/Melbourne_under_water.JPG
[05:04] <toresbe> bash.org/?55178
[05:04] <toresbe> hahahaha
[05:05] <jdub> daniels: wtf?
[05:07] <daniels> jdub: that's down by the yarra, near blue train
[05:07] <jdub> Subject: [Bug 6117]   New: Xorg behaves unacceptably on mac mini
[05:07] <jdub> ^ haha
[05:07] <jdub> daniels: is that doctored?
[05:07] <daniels> jdub: wettest february day on record; large chunks of melbourne (including most arterial roads) are underwater
[05:07] <daniels> jdub: no, that was taken at lunchtime
[05:07] <jdub> ouch
[05:07] <jdub> wettest february and it's only the 3rd
[05:07] <daniels> jdub: dude, the traffic announcements on the radio are taking like 20 minutes
[05:07] <jdub> haha
[05:08] <tseng> jdub: dude.. muine4life
[05:08] <jdub> haven't quite got the hang of the workflow yet
[05:09] <jdub> i wish there was an "add everything and shuffle it" quick thingy for muine
[05:09] <tseng> Play album, ctrl+a, enter, Ctrl+s
[05:09] <tseng> but yeah
[05:09] <tseng> playlist filling is on the Todo list, it will rock
[05:09] <jdub> ahr
[05:10] <tseng> think Party mode in itunes, but cooler
[05:10] <daniels> heh 
[05:11] <jdub> ctrl-s is not shuffle
[05:11] <jdub> oh
[05:11] <jdub> i need some new version
[05:11] <jdub> right?
[05:11] <tseng> ya, > 0.7.0
[05:11] <tseng> i believe.
[05:11] <jdub> i don't even have shuffle :)
[05:11] <tseng> we need gtk-sharp2
[05:11] <tseng> and then i can slap you some sweet muine love
[05:11] <jdub> bong
[05:11] <tseng> jdub: one sec
[05:12] <jba> jdub, do you use totem to play movies?
[05:12] <tseng> oh.. you cant install my bins
[05:12] <jdub> yes
[05:12] <tseng> i forgot.
[05:12] <jba> and you got it it to use alsa, or esd ?
[05:13] <daniels> jdub: (oh, and all access to tulla was blocked for a while, so flights were cancelled/diverted; the incoming road off the freeway was quite badly under water)
[05:13] <tseng> http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/muine/ has muine 0.8.0_pre1 debs
[05:13] <tseng> if anyone is interested ill put together newer ones w/ sources
[05:13] <jba> we got hail stones the size of tenis balls las night
[05:13] <tseng> right now its just for personal use
[05:13] <daniels> mdz: ping
[05:14] <jdub> jba: both
[05:14] <tseng> bluefoxicy: you will hurt with gentoo in 4G
[05:15] <jba> then i must be doin something wrong :(, my totem just doesn't like alsa. i'll look into it later though.
[05:15] <tseng> bluefoxicy: my /usr is usually 2G, and 1G in distfiles
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  5G
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> /dev/hda1             7.5G  3.9G  3.7G  52% /
[05:15] <tseng> that will be tight duder.
[05:15] <daniels> jdub: unfortunately it wasn't as spectacular as the last one, which was localised to a point which floods *really* badly; the SES sent boats down the Eastern Fwy to rescue people stuck in their cars.  although this did happen: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12128331%5E2862,00.html
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  /var/tmp/ is a tmpfs
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> I don't need any more than my static space
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  my biggest worry is 1) I lose ssp/pie for now, 2) I have to migrate thunderbird
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> last time i tried ubuntu, thunderbird couldn't see my mailboxes
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> (same /home)
[05:17] <jba> i've been using the same .evolution folder since it was evolution on fc1
[05:17] <bluefoxicy> maybe I just need to steal thunderbird 1.0 from hoary
[05:18] <tseng> jdub: oh.. i think there is a curse on tomboy
[05:18] <mdz> daniels: pong
[05:23] <daniels> mdz: there are amd64 debs on concordia, could you please test them a bit?
[05:23] <mdz> ok
[05:23] <daniels> mdz: also powerpc just building now on davis; i386 works for me
[05:23] <mdz> more specifically where?
[05:23] <daniels> all the configuration stuff should work fine too, although I haven't tried qemu
[05:23] <daniels> mdz: {concordia,davis}:~daniels/xorg
[05:24] <mdz> has so much changed from the last release that it is necessary to test on all architectures before uploading?
[05:26] <daniels> mdz: can't hurt.  in particular, phenomenal amounts of the debconfiscation have changed, so if I can exercise that some more and get any really stupid bugs out of it before I upload, sweet deal
[05:27] <tseng> bluefoxicy: I need to work on getting that worked into an ubuntu kernel
[05:27] <tseng> bluefoxicy: pitti started with just grsec, which would really be enough for me
[05:27] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  he didn't make an amd64 one afaik
[05:27] <tseng> build from source..?
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> o.o
[05:28] <daniels> mdz: (that being said, it worked in the configurations I could think of across my laptop and desktop)
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> I'm going to use h-d-s for it, built from source
[05:28] <tseng> ok, have fun applying the patches by hand :P
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> what patches
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> it's on my /home partition
[05:30] <mdz> daniels: at this point, if it fixes the dexconf bug, then it's better than what we have (for install and live CD testing)
[05:31] <daniels> mdz: 'kay
[05:32] <mdz> I'm downloading them and will give them a run, but I don't think you should wait for me to finish
 i'm not very verbal
[05:33] <daniels> mdz: right, my own hard deadline to upload is about 4:05 (32min)
[05:33] <mdz> how long does the i386 build take?
[05:34] <daniels> on my desktop, 1:43
[05:34] <mdz> hmm
[05:34] <mdz> lamont: will that make the cloop build?
[05:34] <daniels> which is an athlonxp 2400+ (2ghz clock), with 512mb ram and a pretty shit disk
[05:34] <daniels> dunno how fast it is on our buildds; i think around the 1:30 mark
[05:34] <mdz> well, I can trigger those manually now
[05:34] <mdz> so the bigger question is whether it'll be in the archive when I go to sleep tonight
[05:34] <daniels> which is how long?
[05:34] <mdz> probably not much more than 4 hours
[05:35] <mako> tseng: ok.. sounds you got it covered then :)
[05:35] <jdub> amu doesn't ship opencd stuff on gnoppix does he?
[05:35] <mdz> gnoppix is currently nearly identical to the hoary live CD
[05:35] <daniels> i'm going out the door (other house to clean up from flooding, power supply bits to hopefully get, pick up keys, hopefully an i845 as well) in 30min flat now
[05:35] <jdub> mdz: har
[05:35] <daniels> so it's going to be uploaded then, and 3:30 to get to the archite is pretty reasonable
[05:35] <mdz> jdub: ?
[05:36] <mdz> did you mean the morphix-based gnoppix?
[05:36] <lamont> mdz/daniels: which package?
[05:36] <tseng> mako: yeah, one question for you however
[05:36] <mdz> lamont: xorg
[05:36] <lamont> oh.
[05:36] <lamont> livecd build happens at 0615
[05:36] <lamont> which means the binaries for it need to be there by 0600
[05:36] <mako> tseng: shoot
[05:36] <tseng> mako: there are ~100 cds here now
[05:36] <tseng> mako: 200 attendees
[05:37] <jdub> mdz: that was a misspelt "ahr"
[05:37] <lamont> xorg averages just over 1 hour, meaning that the source would need to be there by 0430
[05:37] <daniels> lamont: it's 0437 now?
[05:37] <tseng> mako: they said it took a few months to get the first batch, would it be possible to get some more by march 5th?
[05:37] <mdz> yep
[05:37] <lamont> daniels: yep
[05:37] <daniels> lamont: how do you feel about kicking a new build when ubuntu13 lands?
[05:37] <daniels> mdz: also, if you could test loading a configuration with 'Load "speedo"' still in it, I'd be indebted
[05:38] <mako> tseng: yeah, no problem
[05:38] <mdz> but since lamont has granted me the sword of pow^Wcloop-building, the daily cloop build deadline isn't so important
[05:38] <lamont> daniels: I could slide it out 30 minutes, which should give you the time you need - will it be uploaded within the next 15 min?
[05:38] <tseng> mako: sweet dude, could you look up the info for eric andreychek, or should we put in a new order?
[05:39] <jdub> mdz: http://www.lacity.org/council/cd13/cd13press/cd13cd13press13227121_02022005.pdf
[05:39] <jdub> GARCETTI, GREUEL, WEISS: FREE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE MEANS MORE POLICE ON THE
[05:39] <jdub> STREETS COUNCIL BETS THAT OPEN SOURCE MOVEMENT CAN SAVE CITY MILLIONS
[05:39] <jdub> 
[05:39] <jdub> "FOSS means more caps to pop in your ass."
[05:39] <mdz> that's serious propaganda
[05:39] <daniels> jdub: represent
[05:39] <mdz> OPEN SOURCE FEEDS BABIES
[05:39] <daniels> lamont: no
[05:39] <mdz> YOU DON'T WANT TO STARVE THE BABIES, DO YOU?
[05:39] <daniels> lamont: it'll definitely be there within about 30min
[05:40] <tseng> open source found me a new kidney
[05:40] <mdz> I woke up in a tub of ice and open source had stolen my kidney
[05:40] <mdz> a conspiracy!
[05:40] <tseng> oh snap, i have a minor FOSS celebrity's right kidney
[05:40] <lamont> mdz: I could just schedule the build for 0710, which _should_ finish in time for the daily CD build of Kamion's
[05:41] <mdz> oh, that's in LA. rad.
[05:41] <jdub> haha
[05:41] <mako> tseng: i am happy to resend to anyone.. what i need is a message with (a) the email used to make the order (all the data up to date etc) (b) mention that it's a high priority (c) mention if that account has already recieved cds.. send it to mako@canonical.com and it'll be done in a heartbeat.. go out with the next shipment
[05:42] <tseng> mako: wonderful, thanks a metric ton and 3 quid.. or something
[05:43] <mako> mdz: you want more cops?!
[05:43] <jdub> ok
[05:43] <jdub> something is spiking cpu every 2s
[05:44] <mdz> jdub: so I guess I should trudge down to city hall and bring a stack of Ubuntu CDs
[05:44] <jdub> oh
[05:44] <jdub> 3ddeskd
[05:44] <jdub> bah
[05:44] <jdub> mdz: elite!
[05:44] <mako> mdz: bring extra, i hear the police's ranks are swelling
[05:45] <jdub> mako: flanks, the police's flanks are swelling
[05:45] <jdub> mmm, doughnut
[05:45] <jba> hey jdub, does canonical have an aus office, or do you telecommute?
[05:45] <jdub> jba: the entire company telecommutes :)
[05:45] <tseng> jdub mdz .. there is a curse on tomboy, apperantly. the build dep is libpanel-applet2-dev.. mdz uploaded as libpanel-applet-dev, after I already effed it twice, and one miss-upload. im going to make it sit in the corner for being bad
[05:45] <jdub> jba: also, my house is the .au head office
[05:46] <jba> that's what I love about the os model, everything is designed around the concept of detached, distributed development
[05:46] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  inside Project Eden (a European dome city project), they try to avoid all references to christianity.
[05:46] <jba> jdub, cool
[05:46] <tseng> if either of you can help me rectify once and for all, thatd be rad
[05:46] <jba> you get many ausies in here?
[05:46] <jdub> tseng: want me to do a quick fix?
[05:46] <jba> s/ausies/aussies?
[05:46] <tseng> jdub: yeppers
[05:46] <daniels> jba: a couple, yeah
[05:46] <daniels> jdub: it so is not
[05:46] <jdub> jba: heaps. australia provides roughly 10% of the FOSS development community.
[05:46] <daniels> jdub: melbourne 4 lyf
[05:46] <tseng> bluefoxicy: thats.. interesting
[05:46] <mako> MAKO BETS OPEN SOURCE MOVEMENT WILL SPELL BOON FOR DOUGHNUT INDUSTRY
[05:46] <lamont> mdz: unless you say otherwise, I'll let the cronjob run as scheduled, and you can kick it again when you want.  or Kamion can
[05:47] <tseng> jdub: give it a quick spanking also.
[05:47] <tseng> jdub: bad tintin
[05:47] <jdub> we should so get a new icon for it
[05:47] <YokoZar> jdub: did you get a chance to look at winetools?
[05:47] <tseng> tomboy is the redheaded stepchild of ubuntu
[05:47] <jba> i'm from sydney myself. my first real oss influence was pptpclient and then mono, and monodevelop
[05:47] <mdz> tseng: dude, aren't you supposed to be able to upload to universe now?
[05:47] <tseng> jdub: jimmac made one
[05:47] <tseng> mdz: i have to jump a hoop yet
[05:47] <mdz> tseng: key?
[05:47] <jdub> tseng: yeah?
[05:47] <tseng> mdz: yes.
[05:47] <jba> jdub, the .au office is in melbourne or sydney?
[05:47] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  they renamed christmas to "the season of gifts" to avoid christianity references inside an ecodome project named after the setting of the book of Genesis
[05:47] <tseng> jdub: yeah, ill go digging for it
[05:48] <mdz> tseng: tried biglumber or debian?
[05:48] <jba> tseng, orph (in #mono) who wrote tomboy (iirc) reckons it targets gtk-sharp not gtk-sharp2
[05:48] <jdub> jba: sydney, of course. melbourne is just a runt city.
[05:48] <jdub> jba: with delusions of grandeur.
[05:48] <jba> hehe
[05:48] <tseng> mdz: im planning to get the CoC and my key id notarized tommorow and mailed to mark
[05:48] <jdub> jba: we were talking about muine and gtk-sharp2 before
[05:48] <mako> bluefoxicy: well, genesis existed a long time before christianity
[05:48] <jba> jdub, melbourne has some devent developers in them, all that rain breeds a computer addicted society
[05:48] <jdub> tseng: notarised and mailed to mark?! :)
[05:49] <tseng> jdub: yeah?
[05:49] <bluefoxicy> mako:  Lies, sega started in 1987  :)
[05:49] <mdz> tseng: -0ubuntu4 uploaded
[05:49] <jdub> tseng: intense :)
[05:49] <tseng> mdz: thanks again
[05:49] <jba> i can't even get totem to use alsa and the w32codecs, so I figured I'd leave muine for a while
[05:49] <mako> jdub: dude, it's because then sabdfl will sign his key (and by doing so give elmo a heart attack)
[05:49] <jdub> mdz: argh, i was just uploading it
[05:49] <jba> the kill mono app I reckon will be beagle... and monodevelop
[05:50] <tseng> jba: no.. muine is the one true god
[05:50] <tseng> you will have no gods before muine
[05:50] <jba> i should try it, but linux +  multimedia is always so hard for me to figure out
[05:50] <jba> and being married doesn't help either, hardly any time to commit to oss
[05:50] <daniels> (15:48:33) ash - fuckin posers: btw abs is about to install some cheesy linux on my computer
[05:50] <daniels> (15:48:55) ash - fuckin posers: abs: it's ubuntu live (warty), no installing it, just a preview for ash
[05:51] <jba> so what happened between warty and hoary that made the intro music disappear when i log in?
[05:51] <tseng> jba: muted alsa mayhaps?
[05:51] <mdz> does sound work otherwise?
[05:52] <jba> tseng, yeah I know that's the cause, but why did that change?
[05:52] <jba> actually muted pcm in volume-settings applet
[05:52] <jba> and muted master
[05:52] <tseng> jdub: http://primates.ximian.com/~jimmac/blog/2004/Nov/01
[05:53] <jba> was asking more on a political level, than a techincal question, cause quite clearly warty wasn't muting alsa
[05:53] <tseng> jdub: mxpxpod had to do a bit of hacking to get the size right iirc
[05:53] <jba> you guys know that beagle can now filter tomby notes as well
[05:53] <jba> ?
[05:53] <tseng> yes, we did.
[05:54] <tseng> ( i speak for the entire room btw )
[05:54] <daniels> (i didn't.)
[05:54] <jba> i'm still waiting for zac to smoothen up his gtkmoxembed stuff for windows, so i can use beagle on my office desktoip
[05:54] <mdz> jba: there was a bug at one point which caused sound to be muted, and saved as muted to disk
[05:55] <mdz> jba: what does "debconf-show alsa-base" say?
[05:55] <jba> 1 sec will boot it
[05:56] <tseng> jdub: see the last post on that page.. crack
[05:56] <smurfix> eh, cool -- start XMMS, xorg segfaults. That's a new one.
[05:59] <smurfix> ... and of COURSE the problem goes away once I attach gdb to it. *sigh*
[05:59] <tseng> jdub: http://primates.ximian.com/~jimmac/blog/Artwork/LowresTomboy applies also
[05:59] <jba> mdz, it says "....on_shutdown: never autosave"
[06:00] <jdub> tseng: aha, now that's more useful (for applet and nicon)
[06:00] <tseng> yes.
[06:00] <jdub> tseng: let's do it :)
[06:02] <mdz> jba: sudo dpkg-reconfigure alsa-base, select "autosave always"
[06:02] <jba> mdz cool thanks will try it
[06:02] <mdz> otherwise it'll boot up muted forevermore
[06:02] <jba> sweet, it was that easy
[06:02] <jba> obviously it was an unattended synaptic install all upgradeable packages that caused it
[06:03] <daniels> lamont: uploading u13 now
[06:04] <mdz> the package was buggy for some indeterminate period of time
[06:04] <mdz> and unfortunately the bad default setting was saved
[06:06] <jba> fuck, I did something to my alsa when i tried to install the restricted file formats
[06:07] <mdz> ah, hmm
[06:08] <mdz> daniels: I won't be able to test amd64 at the moment
[06:08] <mdz> it's hosed due to that grub segfault bug
[06:12] <mdz> (half-installed)
[06:12] <daniels> mdz: ok, nevermind
[06:12] <daniels> lamont: u13 upload finished, have at it
[06:14] <tseng> jdub: mxpxpod already hacked in these icons.. i dont have his source packages around. =/
[06:15] <YokoZar> jdub: pong
[06:15] <mdz> daniels: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg gets me 640x480 on my powerpc-behind-KVM
[06:15] <mdz> where previously it did 1600x1200 without complaint
[06:15] <daniels> mdz: hmph.  what does sudo ddcprobe say?
[06:15] <mdz> oem: ATI Radeon If
[06:15] <mdz> memory: 0kb
[06:15] <mdz> noedid
[06:16] <jdub> YokoZar: yo
[06:16] <YokoZar> jdub: Get a chance to install winetools yet?
[06:16] <mdz>   xserver-xorg/config/monitor/horiz-sync: 30-75
[06:16] <jdub> YokoZar: nup
[06:16] <YokoZar> It should be a point and click setup, though I'm not quite sure if the menu entry is in the right place.
[06:17] <daniels> mdz: if you reconfigure -plow you should be able to beat 16x12 into it; by the looks there's simply no way we can get ddc out of it
[06:17] <daniels> mdz: if ddcprobe ever succeeded, that means the kernel's regressed
[06:17] <jdub> YokoZar: ouch dude, gtk1.2
[06:17] <daniels> mdz: (hm, 0kb.  are you on a laptop that you've suspended?)
[06:17] <mdz> daniels: I believe that, but what used to happen was that it would ask me the mode question, I would select 1600x1200, and it would give me 1600x1200
[06:17] <mdz> daniels: no, powerpc desktop
[06:17] <daniels> mdz: righto.  will look into the not-prompting thing.
[06:17] <YokoZar> jdub: ?  I didn't write it, just packaged it.  I'm not sure why it's based around Xdialog
[06:18] <daniels> mdz: that being said, if you get to select your mode (i.e. configure with -plow), then it should write out a config file that will let you use it
[06:18] <jdub> YokoZar: it could be ported to zenity :)
[06:18] <jdub> though xdialog doesn't explain gtk1.2
[06:19] <mdz> daniels: oddly enough, no
[06:19] <mdz> I went through 'advanced' and entered the sync ranges manually
[06:19] <mdz> and I still get 640x480
[06:19] <mdz> you want config+log?
[06:20] <mdz> it didn' t write out the sync ranges I specified at all
[06:20] <mdz> mdz@max:/tmp$ grep -i sync /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[06:20] <mdz> mdz@max:/tmp$
[06:20] <mdz> Section "Monitor"
[06:20] <mdz>         Identifier      "Generic Monitor"
[06:20] <mdz>         Option          "DPMS"
[06:20] <mdz> EndSection
[06:20] <daniels> mdz: not really, if there's no sync ranges, then xserver-xorg/config/monitor/use_sync_ranges isn't set when it needs to me
[06:21] <daniels> i'll test this weirdo corner case here (replace ddcprobe with a very small shell script)
[06:22] <jdub> YokoZar: works with the debian menu
[06:23] <YokoZar> jdub: maybe it's time I upgraded to hoary, heh
[06:23] <jdub> daniels: have to scroll so far to see the xorg changelog
[06:24] <tseng> i hit end and go back up
[06:24] <jdub> daniels: i consider this a serious bug
[06:25] <fabbione> ROCKING!
[06:25] <fabbione> now we even get the inotify preview patches!
[06:26] <syn-ack> I know that this is not an Ubuntu specific issue, but whats up with the ACPI bug that still not working right after kernel 2.6.6, iirc it was that worked fine.
[06:26] <tseng> syn-ack: the what?
[06:26] <tseng> you'll have to get alot more specific, or look upstream
[06:27] <fabbione> syn-ack: we have a set of patches pending for it
[06:27] <tseng> hah, at least someone knew what he meant.
[06:27] <syn-ack> tseng: Theres a bug in the kernel acpi code thats not updating correctly, so it wont show the correct battery status, in my case, I have to do something like brighten or dim my LCD for it to update.
[06:27] <jba> mdz, thanks mate, got my alsa sound working and rememberin it's last setting
[06:27] <syn-ack> fabbione: aha.
[06:28] <syn-ack> fabbione: man, I will SO beta that for you. :p
[06:28] <jba> only problem now is that totem says 'alsa device "default" is already in use by another program'
[06:28] <tseng> jba: esd running?
[06:29] <jba> don't think so, how to check that?
[06:29] <crimsun> pgrep esd; lsof /dev/dsp*
[06:29] <tseng> or more point and click, desktop -> prefs -> sound
[06:30] <jba> aah the sound server, yeah it's running, and plays sounds
[06:30] <tseng> yeah um
[06:30] <tseng> now desktop -> prefs -> multimedia systems selector
[06:31] <tseng> swap default output sink to esd
[06:31] <crimsun> [may I recommend polpyaudio instead? it doesn't hog the sound device by default, though you can configure esd to release it after a time period iirc] 
[06:31] <tseng> and try totem again.
[06:31] <crimsun> polypaudio^
[06:31] <jba> tseng, that works, does using esd mean I
[06:32] <jba> 'm still using alsa though?
[06:32] <tseng> great
[06:32] <daniels> mdz: i am fucking awesome.  fixed locally; thanks for the pointer.
[06:32] <tseng> jba: esd is using alsa
[06:32] <tseng> so indirectly, yes
[06:32] <jba> i though esd was for oss ?
[06:32] <jba> anyhow never mind, thanks dude
[06:32] <tseng> well, it might do oss emulation
[06:32] <tseng> but its all alsa in the end
[06:32] <crimsun> (by default esd is configured to use ALSA's OSS emulation)
[06:33] <jba> crimsun, polypaudio?
[06:33] <tseng> jba: you can turn off esd in that dialog i showed you, and in system selector you can pick straight alsa
[06:34] <crimsun> jba: esound's replacement down the road
[06:34] <daniels> mdz: with xresprobe rigged to fail, at high priority, we now prompt for the mode and write out sync ranges
[06:34] <jba> crimsun, is esd the reason why people cant get software mixing of sounds ?
[06:34] <tseng> jba: no, esd is software mixing
[06:34] <crimsun> jba: actually it is
[06:35] <tseng> alsa doesnt do it on some hardware
[06:35] <tseng> which is why esd exists
[06:35] <jba> tseng, on the mailing list, and forums people have been claiming they can't
[06:35] <tseng> but crimsun is a sound expert, so ill go shutup
[06:35] <crimsun> hardly an expert :p
[06:35] <HrdwrBoB> jba: they're probably confused
[06:35] <tseng> jba: then the app isnt using esd, id guess
[06:35] <HrdwrBoB> esd software mixes
[06:35] <HrdwrBoB> however you can't just open /dev/dsp again
[06:36] <jba> HrdwrBoB, i don't know dude, I'm just trying to "learn from the community"
[06:37] <crimsun> jba: ALSA provides similar mixing capability in the form of an ALSA library-level plugin called "dmix", but it's far from complete, though "it works in most cases if you follow some constraints"
[06:37] <jba> crimsun, yeah I read about that too, i'm trying not to stray too far from a default laptop installation
[06:37] <jba> trying to convince guys at my office that linux is/ or will be in near future a viable platform option for us
[06:38] <syn-ack> jba: Why wouldnt it be now?
[06:38] <crimsun> jba: ubuntu has a fairly sane default config by using esd; if you plan to use recording capabilities, however, esd will present problems
[06:38] <jba> syn-ack, crimsun: specifically because some of the hardware we use is not linux compatible
[06:38] <jba> for example my dsdt issue earlier this week.
[06:38] <syn-ack> jba: ouch
[06:38] <jdub> jba: easy fix though
[06:38] <jba> jdub, yeah easy fix for me, but I know linux
[06:39] <jba> a windows only admin aint gonna belive me
[06:39] <jdub> jba: we can make that better, too
[06:39] <HrdwrBoB> esd->OSS emulation->alsa->hardware
[06:39] <jba> I've been using linux for a while, and still didn't know about esd/alsa stuff either
[06:39] <jdub> mjg59: tune in if you're around
[06:39] <jdub> so what i'm thinking is
[06:39] <jba> s/a windows only admin/our windows only admin
[06:39] <jdub> if you put DSDT.aml in your /etc/mkinitrd,
[06:39] <jdub> an additional mkinitrd script tacks it on the end
[06:39] <jdub> thus working forever
[06:40] <jdub> with every kernel upgrade
[06:40] <jba> jdub, you'll need to have already compiled it though, that's the dirty part
[06:40] <jdub> perhaps
[06:40] <jdub> but we can ship or provide those
[06:40] <jdub> in some other fashion
[06:40] <jdub> it's just a binary firmware issue, really
[06:40] <jba> on bugzilla they were saying that shipping them may have copyright issues
[06:40] <jdub> as does shipping binary firmware
[06:41] <jba> but hey, can I do this /etc/mkintrd perpetual kernel fix now ?
[06:41] <jba> or is it not yet ready for that?
[06:41] <jdub> not ready yet
[06:42] <jba> the reason i like ubuntu is cause it has eye-candy and enterprise deployment/management potential
[06:42] <jba> it's just a matter of convincing this windows admin of that fact
[06:42] <tseng> those things are certainly co-dependent
[06:42] <fabbione> jdub: we have a high probability to get inotify fixed
[06:42] <jdub> tseng: chuckle
[06:42] <jba> every time i have an issue with our network, hey says "cause your using that damn linux"
[06:42] <jdub> fabbione: rml's giving you the love?
[06:42] <jba> eediot
[06:42] <fabbione> jdub: we are working together on fixing it.
[06:43] <Treenaks> jba: scary
[06:43] <jba> jdub, also from the list, YAST apparently lets you procide the path to the DSDT file, and it does the initrd tackinf for next reboot
[06:43] <jdub> next reboot? ew.
[06:43] <jba> ew ? it's a laptop
[06:44] <jba> prolly the same thing as your /etc/mkinitrd, except it allows the DSDT file to sit anywhere
[06:44] <jdub> and makes you cruelly aware of it, etc.
[06:44] <jba> hehe, well i would rather be aware of it, than have aboslutely no clue that it aint gonna work :)
[06:45] <daniels> mdz: ok, a few debconf cleanups done, but i hardly think they're important enough to warrant an ubuntu14 upload now
[06:45] <jdub> jba: it should just work, that's the point
[06:45] <jba> sometimes i think.. rather than change the people in my company's attitude that I would be better off changing my company
[06:45] <jdub> daniels: i'm being bothered by hostinggeek about banning
[06:45] <jba> but every company is the same (especially when you have a managed run time background).
[06:46] <jba> they're either all java shops or all ms shops
[06:46] <fabbione>    * Move *.1 manpages to *.1x, a change that got lost from xfree86->xorg.
[06:46] <daniels> fabbione: look a little closer
[06:46] <fabbione> that was done upstream
[06:46] <daniels> fabbione: in xfree86.cf, we remove AppManSuffix 1, which is why it gets forced to 1$(ProjectManSuffix) (i.e. 1x)
[06:47] <daniels> but we didn't mirror the same change in xorg.cf, so AppManSuffix was getting forced to 1
[06:47] <fabbione> AHHHH
[06:47] <daniels> it was a side effect of not mirroring *all* the xfree86.cf changes to xorg.cf
[06:47] <fabbione> GOTTA LOVE COHERENCE IN XORG
[06:47] <fabbione> same shit as the fonts and the XF86CUSTOMVERSION
[06:47] <jba> jdub, to be fair though, the DSDT issue isn't really linux's fault
[06:48] <fabbione> daniels: did you remember to update all the manifest files?
[06:48] <jba> manufacturers with buggy DSDT implementations really should be accountable
[06:48] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, plus *.install*
[06:49] <daniels> fabbione: sailed through file on i386/powerpc/amd64 at least, and I made sure that ia64 and sparc didn't get damaged as well ;)
[06:49] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, the XF86CUSTOMVERSION thing is annoying
[06:49] <daniels> fabbione: xfree86.cf vs xorg.cf blows my mind.  why they still have two is amazing.
[06:49] <daniels> oh well, yay imake!
[06:49] <jdub> so mkinitrd has no ability to handle post-image-building customisation
[06:50] <dholbach> morning!
[06:51] <jba> who's decision was it to ship pptp 1.5 with hoary, by the way? that was a good decision
[06:51] <jba> so much better
[06:52] <daniels> fabbione: i've got the sparc iso now, but i've spent 26 of the last 31 hours doing xorg, xresprobe or l-r-m, so I'm not going to install it tonight ;)
[06:52] <jdub> "First Graphical LiveCD For The PowerPC By Gentoo"
[06:52] <jdub> on slashdot under games
[06:53] <fabbione> daniels: i suggest you to wait anyway
[06:53] <fabbione> daniels: Kamion is fixing the last bits in d-i
[06:53] <tseng> jdub: gentoo had a graphical livecd for ppc long before that one (or ubuntu)
[06:53] <daniels> fabbione: oh sweet
[06:53] <fabbione> daniels: so the installation will be a breeze
[06:53] <tseng> jdub: so it may be accurate, but only by mistake
[06:53] <fabbione> daniels: it's missing a new choose-mirror and a new d-i upload
[06:54] <fabbione> daniels: all the rest should be there
[06:54] <fabbione> daniels: otherwise you need to hack a bit manually
[07:05] <Treenaks> where can I find the list of natively-supported-by-Xorg ATIs?
[07:06] <fabbione> isn't the madwifi driver in l-r-m?
[07:08] <mdz> yes
[07:08] <fabbione> hmmmm
[07:11] <daniels> fabbione: yah, why?
[07:12] <daniels> Treenaks: 'all of them'
[07:12] <daniels> Treenaks: in terms of 3d, anything up to r2xx (which is up to and including radeon 9250)
[07:12] <fabbione> daniels: 6108
[07:12] <daniels> fabbione: whoohoo ;)
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  complete and total ass
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I found the problem:  gentoo uses ~/.thunderbird, ubuntu ~/.mozilla-thunderbird
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> woh the hell or how the hell did that, I don't know
[07:16] <tseng> um, ok
[07:24] <fabbione> humpf...
[07:24] <fabbione> inotify -14 still doesn't fix the crash
[07:25] <dilinger> fabbione: what's w/ the push to get inotify in shape?
[07:25] <fabbione> dilinger: because we ship it? ;)
[07:25] <fabbione> and it's the only critical bug for the kernel
[07:26] <fabbione> + the amd64 ia32 emulation that is utterly broken in 2.6.10
[07:26] <fabbione> (and the debian patch does not fix it)
[07:26] <dilinger> right.  why do you ship inotify? :)
[07:27] <fabbione> dilinger: ask jdub :-)
[07:27] <fabbione> 1t'5 t0t477y r4d
[07:27] <dilinger> heh
[07:28] <fabbione> s0 r4d 7h47 br34k5
[07:28] <tseng> it will be totally rad when it works right
[07:28] <fabbione> tseng: it does.. it breaks when you remove a fs below it's monitoring
[07:28] <fabbione> at least now i can a) reproduce b) debug
[07:29] <dilinger> jdub: is this to get rid of famd or something?
[07:29] <tseng> atm gamin doesnt work with inotify apperantly =/
[07:30] <tseng> but that was part of it (beagle as well)
[07:30] <fabbione> tseng: they have been disabled since inotify is broken
[07:30] <jdub> dilinger: it replaces dnotify
[07:30] <dilinger> jdub: right
[07:30] <jdub> fabbione: current gamin uses inotify
[07:31] <dilinger> jdub: that doesn't answer my question, though
[07:31] <jdub> dilinger: gamin, which replaces fam, uses inotify or dnotify
[07:31] <dilinger> ok
[07:31] <jdub> dilinger: we ship inotify because it is a more scalable and less breakable interface than dnotify
[07:32] <fabbione> given that it works :-)
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> huh
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> what the. . .
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> gtk-gnutella-0.95-2 from hoary universe
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> installs no binary?
[07:36] <zenrox> noooo a reboot
[07:36] <tseng> brace for impact.
[07:37] <zenrox> hehehe
[07:38] <gustavor> mdz, hi matt
[07:38] <mdz> gustavor: hello
[07:38] <gustavor> mdz, I believe there is a problem with uml-utilities package
[07:39] <mdz> the problem with the uml-utilities package is that its maintainer is very busy ;-)
[07:39] <gustavor> mdz, I see
[07:39] <gustavor> mdz, I think it a very simple fix
[07:40] <gustavor> mdz, should I file a bug in bugzilla? then you can have a look?
[07:40] <mdz> gustavor: debbugs is fine for uml-utilities
[07:40] <mdz> thanks
[07:41] <dholbach> is there any reason why a check in configure.in like COASTER_PKG_PATH_PROG([XML_CAT_PROG] , [libxml-2.0] , [xmlcatalog] ) wouldnt work in pbuilder? (for testing reasons i put libxml2-utils in depends and build-depends)
[07:42] <mdz> COASTER_PKG_PATH_PROG is a custom macro, so it could have any number of problems
[07:43] <mdz> it looks like _maybe_ XML_CAT_PROG should not be quoted
[07:43] <mdz> but it depends entirely on how COASTER_PKG_PATH_PROG is written
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> I can't
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> friggin
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> get rhythmbox to do mp3s on this system wtf
[07:44] <dholbach> it works nice with  debuild  or in a normal ./configure && make && make install  run
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> gimme a hint, what do I apt-get
[07:44] <tseng> bluefoxicy: install gstreamer0.8-mad or so
[07:44] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: it's on the wiki too
[07:44] <tseng> bluefoxicy: this is an faq bit
[07:44] <tseng> yes.
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> thanks
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> I got like, gstreamer0.6-mad or something
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> so I was like 'Wtf I installed gstreamer mad'
[07:45] <tseng> 0.6 is old old
[07:45] <dholbach> mdz: thanks... i found out, i could --disable-update-xml-catalog
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> i've screwed this system up already, wanted newer shit
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> I still want mozilla firefox but
[07:46] <bluefoxicy>   mozilla-firefox: Depends: libgnomevfs2-0 (>= 2.9.90) but 2.8.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> trying to steal hoary's for warty
[07:46] <tseng> you cant do around installing half stuff from hoary
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I have the hoary repository
[07:46] <tseng> you have to backport it, or deal with the full upgrade
[07:46] <tseng> bluefoxicy: hoary doesnt have 2.8.2, duder.
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> exactly
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> it's simply not there
[07:47] <zenrox> ya tseng  is right
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> so i'll have to wait a while :/
[07:47] <tseng> so stop screwing arund with a half upgrade
[07:47] <zenrox> just go full bore dist-upgrade
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> hoary breaks
[07:47] <fabbione> guys can we kindly move this topic to #ubuntu?
[07:48] <jdub> bluefoxicy: hoary breaks less than a halfbreed
[07:48] <jdub> bluefoxicy: this is really a #ubuntu issue
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> bai
[07:51] <jdub> http://spooky-possum.org/cgi-bin/pyblosxom.cgi/rewinddir
[07:51] <jdub> mdz: ^
[07:54] <sivang> Morning all
[07:57] <mdz> jdub: minii_fo is so fucked
[07:58] <mdz> I'd like to point out that this problem can't exist on the hoary live CD, but it's broken :-/
[07:58] <mdz> jdub: gentoo has had a powerpc livecd for ages, as far as I'm aware
[07:59] <mdz> jdub: first "graphical" live CD?
[07:59] <jdub> mdz: very confused news item, so it seems
[07:59] <jdub> minii_fo?
[08:00] <mdz> 24 comments, 2 ubuntu mentions ;-)
[08:00] <mdz> mini_fo is the broken filesystem overlay module that the Warty live CD used
[08:01] <jdub> aha
[08:01] <mdz> which is surely responsible for weird readdir bugs
[08:01] <jdub> "but it's broken" was in reference to?
[08:01] <mdz> the hoary live CD
[08:01] <mdz> no X at the moment
[08:01] <jdub> oh
[08:01] <jdub> oh right, broken for other reasons :)
[08:02] <mdz> broken in more obvious ways
[08:02] <mdz> xorg/amd64 built
[08:03] <mdz> lamont: did you set Kamion up with cloop build access?
[08:16] <fabbione> bah
[08:16] <fabbione> let's give acpi some love
[08:17] <jdahlin> acpi is in desperate need of it
[08:17] <jdahlin> (at least on my box)
[08:18] <bob2> everyone should just buy x40's
[08:18] <bob2> then they don't need to complain
[08:19] <jdahlin> is it even flawless on x40's?
[08:19] <bob2> jah
[08:19] <sivang> bob2: wowo, I should get one myself....how much does it cost from where you are?
[08:19] <bob2> too much
[08:19] <bob2> ($au3400)
[08:20] <sivang> errr
[08:20] <sivang> grrr
[08:21] <bob2> down to $us1000 or so
[08:21] <lifeless> and its a uk one. for an aussie.
[08:21] <dholbach> hi sivang
[08:21] <bob2> you'll note I don't have any screen cracks, tho.
[08:22] <lifeless> bob2: you'll note my conspicuous absence of a pound symbols
[08:23] <jdub> bob2: LOGICALLY you would NOT
[08:23] <bob2> hahahahahahaha
[08:23] <pitti> Morning
[08:24] <dholbach> hi pitti
[08:25] <jdahlin> I gave away a few ubuntu CDs to some chinese people today, they seemed very surprised that you could get them for free
[08:26] <jdahlin> one of them even asked if a license key was needed...
[08:28] <sivang> jdahlin: hehe
[08:29] <sivang> Morning pitti!
[08:29] <sivang> morning dholbach 
[08:30] <fabbione> 2.6.11 is gonna be out pretty soon....
[09:13] <dholbach> morning mvo_
[09:14] <mvo_> hi dholbach 
[09:14] <sivang> hey mvo_ 
[09:17] <mvo_> hi sivang 
[09:19] <amu> jdub: gnoppix ships the opencd stuff also, cause its soo cool 
[09:20] <jdub> amu: :-)
[09:20] <jdub> amu: what did you ship on previous versions of gnoppix that is not in the ubuntu desktop or live seeds?
[09:20] <sivang> amu: yes, opencd is the coolest:)
[09:22] <amu> jdub: another theme, the restricted drivers, and a lot of preconfigs   
[09:32] <fabbione> mjg59: confirmed that the new ACPI fixes the battery status
[09:39] <jdub> amu: no extra apps?
[09:40] <mdz> gah
[09:40] <mdz> X still broken with ubuntu13
[09:41] <jdahlin> fabbione: just curious, what kind of issues?
[09:41] <fabbione> jdahlin: 5807
[09:42] <fabbione> this is hoary
[09:42] <Treenaks> jdahlin: ASUS laptop?
[09:42] <jdahlin> Treenaks: fujitsu-siemens
[09:42] <Treenaks> jdahlin: I know asus DSDTs are known to be buggy
[09:43] <Treenaks> dunno about f-s
[09:43] <jdahlin> fabbione: okay, that's different from mine
[09:43] <Treenaks> gah! has ldconfig forgotten how to cache?
[09:43] <jdahlin> guess I should file that one in bugzilla
[09:43] <mvo_> mdz: did you had time yet to look my changes for #5668 (apt-cdrom & authentication)?
[09:43] <Treenaks> "Setting up libx[something] " takes AGES.. for each of them..
[09:43] <mvo_> s/to look/to look over/ :)
[09:44] <fabbione> jdahlin: please test a hoary kernel before opening a bug
[09:44] <fabbione> that would be the first thing we would ask you to do
[09:44] <mdz> mvo_: only a bit
[09:44] <amu> jdub: not defined now, i hope Luis helps    
[09:44] <jdahlin> fabbione: ok. I'm about to upgrade to hoary.
[09:45] <mdz> currently, my priority is to get the live CD un-broken
[09:45] <mvo_> sure, I don't want to rush you
[09:45] <jdub> amu: no, i mean, did you have extra apps on the previous gnoppix cds
[09:45] <fabbione> mdz: the next kernel will break the ABI..
[09:45] <mdz> mvo_: can you do an installation test using your patched apt?
[09:45] <fabbione> mdz: how much time do you want to fix the livecd?
[09:46] <mvo_> mdz: does that require building my own install cd?
[09:46] <amu> jdub: nothing, which you can't get from archive or debian pool
[09:47] <fabbione> daniels: are you still around?
[09:47] <jdub> amu: hrm, perhaps i'm not being clear
[09:47] <Treenaks> hm... it's really ldconfig taking ages.. and re-doing whatever it does with EVERY package
[09:47] <fabbione> Treenaks: you can't avoid that
[09:47] <fabbione> and it is required
[09:47] <jdub> amu: did pre-ubuntu gnoppix releases have additional packages installed?
[09:48] <mdz> fabbione: daniels has probably passed out
[09:48] <Treenaks> fabbione: it used to be slow only the first time, and cached after that ("Hey! Libraries haven't changed, so I don't need to run!"-style)
[09:48] <mdz> and I now need to do what I asked for in the first place
[09:48] <mdz> which was to fix the trivial dexconf bug and leave the other things out
[09:48] <fabbione> mdz: want me to take a look?
[09:49] <mdz> fabbione: I know the bug and how to fix it.  it is just that daniels rewrote postinst at the same time, and introduced new bugs
[09:49] <fabbione> ah ok
[09:49] <mdz> so I am reverting -1ubuntu13 and applying only the fix
[09:49] <fabbione> mdz: ok. do you have the baz repo handy?
[09:49] <amu> jdub: "pre-ubuntu gnoppix" ? we're talking about older, stable or upcomming versions?  
[09:50] <fabbione> hmm no.. daniels didn't commit to baz
[09:50] <fabbione> brb
[09:55] <jdub> amu: older stable versions
[09:59] <amu> jdub: sure, there are a lot of extra packages compared to our new or old liveCD
[10:01] <jdub> amu: can you let me know what isn't covered by the packages listed in the live seed?
[10:02] <jdub> anyone have sid handy?
[10:02] <jdub> n/m
[10:02] <Treenaks> jdub: well.. yes.. why?
[10:03] <jdub> Treenaks: apt-cache search clear looks throw up anything?
[10:04] <mdz> Kamion: awake?
[10:05] <Treenaks> jdub: mozilla-diggler - A set of URL manipulation utilities for Mozilla's location bar
[10:05] <jdub> Treenaks: thanks
[10:13] <Kamion> mdz: yo
[10:13] <Kamion> just woke up
[10:13] <sivang> hey Kamion , morning
[10:13] <mdz> Kamion: morning
[10:13] <amu> jdub: sending you the packagelist for 0.6 and 0.7, gimme 1h      
[10:13] <mdz> was just sending mail
[10:13] <Kamion> ok
[10:13] <jdub> mdz: ok
[10:13] <jdub> er
[10:14] <jdub> amu: ok, thanks
[10:14] <fabbione> jdub: can you try to install ubuntu-desktop on sparc? it should be working today :-)
[10:14] <jdub> fabbione: ok, will do later :)
[10:14] <jdub> in off-peak :)
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: I just uploaded xorg 6.8.1-1ubuntu14
[10:15] <fabbione> jdub: :-)
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: which needs to make its way onto a new set of live CDs at the earliest opportunity
[10:16] <Kamion> mdz: lamont did give me access to kick the cloop builds
[10:16] <mdz> Kamion: lamont set you up with the capability to trigger cloop image builds, right?
[10:16] <mdz> great
[10:16] <Kamion> so if you want to go to sleep I can certainly shepherd those
[10:16] <Kamion> might decide to do array 4 today, maybe
[10:17] <mdz> that's my plan (sleep)
[10:17] <mdz> I'd like to do a combined install+live  release for array 4
[10:17] <fabbione> mdz.sleep()
[10:17] <Kamion> mdz: yes, likewise
[10:18] <mdz> so if you can organize a round of live CD testing, or wait until I wake up so that I can do it, that'd be best
[10:18] <fabbione> Kamion: do you think it is reasonable to plan some sparc CD's AFTER array4?
[10:18] <mdz> I hope that -1ubuntu14 will at least get us back to array3.5 status
[10:18] <fabbione> mdz: i can help Kamion to test...
[10:18] <Kamion> fabbione: sure, can do
[10:18] <fabbione> Kamion: that would be awesome
[10:19] <fabbione> anything i can do to help you there? or is it all DC located?
[10:19] <Kamion> it's all DC located
[10:19] <fabbione> ok
[10:20] <mdz> ok, night all
[10:20] <mvo_> night mdz 
[10:20] <mdz> and good luck
[10:20] <fabbione> night mdz
[10:20] <sivang> night mdz 
[10:39] <jdahlin> Is xfree86 or xorg recommended for hoary?
[10:39] <d3vic3> W: Couldn't stat source package list http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_hoary_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
[10:39] <d3vic3> anyone have an idead about that ? 
[10:39] <fabbione> jdahlin: hoary has xorg, but please these questions are for #ubuntu
[10:39] <fabbione> d3vic3: apt-get update
[10:40] <mvo_> d3vic3: have you called "apt-get update"
[10:40] <d3vic3> yes
[10:40] <d3vic3> still gives same error 
[10:40] <fabbione> check the sources.list
[10:40] <jdahlin> fabbione: sorry, I just wanted to know which one was fully supported since I was given a choice
[10:40] <d3vic3> looks fine 
[10:40] <fabbione> hoary has no choise.. it is xorg by default
[10:41] <jdahlin> I got a dialog when upgrading.
[10:41] <fabbione> xfree is in universe -> not supported
[10:41] <jdahlin> ah
[10:46] <d3vic3> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[10:47] <d3vic3> fabbione, sources.list looks fine, but still give that error 
[10:47] <fabbione> d3vic3: are you behind a proxy?
[10:47] <fabbione> if so it's the cache that is broken
[10:47] <d3vic3> I use a firewall not a proxy 
[10:48] <Kamion> archive.ubuntu.com's been randomly broken of late due to enormous load, I think
[10:48] <Kamion> s/broken/out of sync/
[10:48] <Kamion> d3vic3: might want to try using a mirror instead
[10:49] <d3vic3> where is the mirror list? 
[10:50] <Hwolf> The one advantage Debian has over Ubuntu right now is the massive mirror infrastructure
[10:51] <Hwolf> Ubuntu would do well to get some mirrors up, and add them to the Hoary installer.
[10:51] <Kamion> d3vic3: either http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/ or http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[10:51] <Kamion> Hwolf: we *have* mirrors; I was vetoed from having the mirror question in the installer though
[10:52] <Hwolf> Kamion. I've tried looking for the mirrors, but could only find 'download install cd' mirrors
[10:52] <maswan> Kamion: The more user-friendly approach would be adding redirect support and let archive distribute the load among mirrors, IMO
[10:53] <Hwolf> kamion: How where they planning to cope if Ubuntu really takes of, then?
[10:53] <maswan> Hwolf: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[10:53] <Hwolf> maswan: And what if the nearest archive selected by the installer is a massivly slow server? For debian I pick the university's server rather then my old isp's
[10:54] <Kamion> Hwolf: vetoed => go talk to Mark :-(
[10:54] <Hwolf> Kamion: does he read the mailing list?
[10:54] <Kamion> maswan: yeah, that might work ...
[10:54] <Hwolf> -devel, that is?
[10:54] <Kamion> Hwolf: yeah
[10:55] <maswan> Hwolf: Then you have an incentive to google for ubuntu mirror
[10:55] <Kamion> Hwolf: though don't phrase it as "oi, Mark, ..." :-)
[10:55] <Hwolf> maswan: I could. But every one of those 1300 people a day that read about ubuntu on distrowatch might not...
[10:56] <maswan> Kamion: In my opinion, that's a better and more flexible approach than round-robin dns at least.
[10:57] <maswan> Kamion: You can even do smart selection, given a smart server.
[10:57] <Treenaks> maswan: http://www.globule.org/
[10:57] <d3vic3> Kamion, the mirrors give more errors 
[10:59] <Hwolf> hint: Make sure the master server's integrity is intact before rsyncing the mirrors. 
[10:59] <maswan>  Treenaks Yeah
[11:09] <Hwolf> An issue I see is that hoary users will automaticly run a cronjob every day, so it can be assumed that load on the servers will increase.
[11:09] <Hwolf> dramaticly
[11:22] <jdub> amu: holy crap, the difference is huge
[11:23] <Kamion> Hwolf: yeah, that was brought up in one of the meetings at Mataro
[11:24] <Kamion> elmo: mind if I make up a Mirrors.masterlist.ubuntu out of whole cloth and the various wiki pages etc., for use in choose-mirror and base-config? I don't necessarily expect it to be totally current all the time, but it can be updated just before release and stuff
[11:26] <fabbione> are we actually monitoring our mirrors to know if they are alive/in sync?
[11:26] <amu> jdub: yes it is     
[11:27] <Hwolf> fabbione: I'd hope so
[11:27] <Kamion> fabbione: I think that's one of the things elmo does; dunno
[11:27] <Kamion> IIRC Debian have various automatic mirror monitoring scripts
[11:29] <Kamion> fabbione: ah, didn't realise there was a bug about the serial console thing, thanks
[11:31] <fabbione> Kamion: ehhe no problem :-) i submitted it as reminder.. nothing mor
[11:31] <fabbione> more
[11:43] <enrico> jdub: did you create the ubuntu-doc-commits list and tell the address to Elmo?
[11:43] <jdub> enrico: not yet
[11:45] <enrico> I'd like to announce today the migration scheduled for monday: do you think you can make it so that monday everything is ready?
[11:46] <jdub> yep
[11:46] <jdub> sorry, busy day
[11:46] <jdub> will do it tonight
[11:46] <enrico> jdub: thanks@
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: did you get anywhere with the amd64 grub kernel stuff?
[11:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no further than I reported yesterday
[11:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I really have to concentrate on feature-freeze stuff now
[11:49] <Mithrandir> ok
[11:49] <Kamion> hm, there were a load of d-i uploads last night to fix translation problems; I should probably go through and merge those
[11:51] <Kamion> hm, mdz broke X
[11:54] <Mithrandir> pitti: Debian is including http://arch.err.no/index.cgi/tfheen@idi.ntnu.no--2005/pkg-glibc--multiarch--0--patch-2?cmd=cs_new&file=debian/patches/99_multiarch-ld.dpatch in sarge.  How do you feel about we doing the same for hoary?
[11:54] <Kamion> has that actually been uploaded to Debian yet?
[11:55] <pitti> hmm, rpath...
[11:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: I guess rpath is unavoidable for supporting several libraries with the same name (but different arch)?
[11:57] <Mithrandir> Kamion: will be when jbailey gets around to it.
[11:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: he'll need to get a move on :)
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: vorlon was ok with accepting it last night on -glibc.
[11:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: what does default-rpath actually change?
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I could just NMU glibc if you want. :P
[11:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: the patch itself looks safe
[11:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: heh
[11:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: default rpath is the hard coded search path in ld-linux.so
[11:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: which is usually /lib, /usr/lib, etc?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you know, I almost NMU-ed glibc once, for a wishlist bug. ;)
[11:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: and you want to add /lib64 etc.?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, and this adds /lib/i486-linux /usr/lib/i486-linux and /usr/local/lib/i486-linux to that list.
[11:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, from my POV this looks fine
[11:59] <Mithrandir> actually, not /usr/local yet.  That should be fixed.
[11:59] <fabbione> jdub: i think i have a temporary fix for inotify and usb interaction
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: though, that wishlist was "make a libc udeb" so it'd been appropriate. :P
[12:00] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh yeah, *that*
[12:00] <Kamion> fabbione: choose-mirror fix making its way through katie/buildds now
[12:01] <Kamion> save it until you verify that it works :-)
[12:01] <fabbione> yeah right... i am sure it will :-)
[12:02] <fabbione> Kamion: so after this we only have d-i missing....
[12:02] <fabbione> at least to get trough phase1 without problems
[12:02] <Kamion> fabbione: right, I've got a sparc change pending there anyway so I'll do it once choose-mirror's in the archive. is your buildd running at the moment?
[12:02] <fabbione> Kamion: yes..
[12:03] <fabbione> it will pick up choose-mirror quite soon
[12:03] <fabbione> unfortunatly i need to wait jackass -> archive -> my local mirror syncs
[12:03] <fabbione> that is approx 1 hour or more delay
[12:03] <Kamion> np
[12:04] <fabbione> but i will make sure choose-mirror is builded before allowing d-i
[12:04] <Kamion> I have xorg to fix anyway
[12:04] <fabbione> i still have to find the time to start daily d-i build
[12:04] <fabbione> yeah good luck with that ;)
[12:04] <fabbione> i am testing some kernel stuff here
[12:04] <Kamion> fabbione: that may be an issue for CD builds, but not much of one
[12:04] <fabbione> but i need to wait for you/mdz/dani with X first
[12:06] <Kamion> ah, mdz reverted MANIFEST fixes which were needed for it to build; yay
[12:06] <fabbione> AMEN
[12:07] <fabbione> guys please don't fuck X too much.. it's a royal pain to allign MANIFESTS and stuff
[12:07] <Kamion> yeah, I know
[12:10] <fabbione> time to cook some food
[12:17] <Kamion> oh wow, xorg has a file called debian/po/pothead
[12:20] <Kamion> elmo: could I have accounts in davis/concordia's hoary chroots, please?
[12:21] <Kamion> (want to test-build xorg)
[12:23] <elmo> Kamion: done
[12:23] <elmo> halley too?
[12:27] <fabbione> Kamion: mind to put the diff somewhere? i can test sparc here and avoid another upload
[12:28] <Kamion> elmo: I have halley already apparently
[12:28] <Kamion> fabbione: it's not changed from -1ubuntu14 with respect to sparc; try that
[12:28] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[12:29] <fabbione> Kamion: ok
[12:31] <lifeless> elmo: I'd really like to do amd64 debs for bazaar 1.2. Is there something other than your time holding up a bazaar chroot on concordia ?
[12:32] <elmo> lifeless: that and that you keep making the mistake of saying it's "not urgent" every time you bug me about it :p
[12:33] <lifeless> elmo: it wasn't urgent .. but it gets more so as time goes bye ;p
[12:34] <elmo> yeah, ok, I'll do once I've finished figlet-of-death to pitti via bugzilla
[12:34] <pitti> elmo: ?
[12:34] <Mithrandir> elmo: you do figlets in bugzille?
[12:34] <Mithrandir> s/e.$/a?/
[12:34] <Kamion> jesus, I can see why you lot call concordia BATTLESTAR
[12:34] <elmo> Kamion: :>
[12:35] <elmo> pitti: set_conf_perms() in the postgresql postinst is EVIL
[12:35] <fabbione> Kamion: ehehhe
[12:35] <fabbione> Kamion: you should try building the kernel with -j 400
[12:35] <fabbione> too bad that it eats all the swap
[12:35] <Kamion> no thanks, that sort of thing scares me :)
[12:35] <fabbione> with 300 you are ok :-)
[12:36] <fabbione> nahh i did it
[12:36] <fabbione> it keeps up perfectly
[12:36] <Kamion> I'm happy with build-xorg-while-you-wait
[12:36] <elmo> as opposed to while-you-grow-old-and-die?
[12:37] <Kamion> indeed so
[12:45] <maswan> Kamion: out of curiosity, what hardware is it?
[12:49] <Kamion> dual "AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 250" 2.4GHz or so according to /proc/cpuinfo#
[12:50] <maswan> ah
[12:50] <Mithrandir> the 250s are ok
[12:50] <Mithrandir> nice, even.
[12:50] <maswan> 8 gigs of ram or so in it too?
[12:52] <elmo> nah, it's just a porting box, no need for Gbs of RAM
[12:53] <Kamion> well, it has Gbs, but only two
[12:53] <elmo> boxes with less than 2Gb of RAM are a crime against humanity
[12:54] <Hwolf> elmo: in which context?
[12:56] <infinity> People take pride in the weirdest things...
[12:56] <Mithrandir> memory sticks?  hah! new fad which will go away and we will return to the glorious times of chips which you bent the legs on when you inserted them and similar mind-numbingness.
[12:56] <maswan> well, make -j 400 bzImage seems to only gobble up 4:ish gigs of ram for me
[12:57] <Hwolf> infinity: I'm just too poor to afford new stuff. :-P
[12:57] <maswan> real    1m56.753s
[12:57] <maswan> I had to try. :)
[12:57] <elmo> maswan: yeah, for some reason I only put 1Gb of swap on concordia
[12:57] <elmo> so it only has 3 total
[12:57] <infinity> Hwolf : I haven't purchased any RAM in the last 10 years that didn't come with a lifetime warranty..
[12:57] <fabbione> elmo: you can still add some more :-)
[12:57] <infinity> elmo : And this seemed sane at the time?
[12:58] <maswan> It peaked at around 4.5 gigs used, I think
[12:58] <Hwolf> infinity: true, but if i'd send it in, i'd be ram-less for a while. :-)
[12:58] <elmo> infinity: *shrug* I didn't expect people to try make -j 400; and at the time I was installing it had I had no idea of it's true BATTLESTAR nature
[12:59] <maswan> Well, these are the same as the compute cluster, so that's the reason for 8 gigs of ram
[12:59] <fabbione> elmo: i had the idea that you know me by NOW
[12:59] <infinity> elmo : Well, make -j 400 seems a bit ridiculous, but swap smaller than RAM makes the swap seem kinda pointless.
[12:59] <elmo> infinity: eh, why?
[12:59] <Hwolf> infinity: Why would a box swap while ram isn't full, anway?
[01:00] <infinity> elmo : If you're eating two gigs of RAM, you'll eat the next one pretty fast.  Of course, you need a fabbione to trigger this phenomenon, I suppose.
[01:00] <maswan> infinity: the swap is there for stuff that isn't used, you want your working set in ram anyway
[01:00] <infinity> maswan : Obviously, but some of us can't afford enough RAM for fabbione's tastes.
[01:01] <maswan> infinity: Ah, well, in that case, yeah, lots of swap would be good.
[01:01] <maswan> Tasks: 980 total, 280 running, 700 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
[01:01] <maswan> Mem:   8137444k total,  5097492k used,  3039952k free,   155280k buffers
[01:01] <maswan> and the machine is laggy but usable. neat. :)
[01:02] <infinity> Then again, I guess the usage of the machine matters.  Multi-user machine, constantly swapping out, acceptable.  Single0user machine, only ever one or two active tasks, you probably just want to see things get OOMed.
[01:02] <maswan> Oh, well
[01:03] <Hwolf> maswan: best of luck. Presentations are fun
[01:03] <maswan> http://gmetad.hpc2n.umu.se/ganglia/?c=Sarek&h=mupp-m.hpc2n.umu.se&m=&r=hour&s=descending&hc=4
[01:03] <maswan> make -j 400 and the second peak is make -j 1600
[01:04] <Mithrandir> maswan: good luck. :)
[01:04] <maswan> Not much of a difference. :)
[01:04] <maswan> Thanks
[01:04] <infinity> maswan : i don't recommend ever listening to fabbione's suggestions again. :)
[01:04] <infinity> maswan : Also, the luck thing.  Break legs and all that.
[01:05] <fabbione> nobody should by defalt :-)
[01:05] <infinity> fabbione : That quote will haunt you.  I guarantee it.
[01:06] <fabbione> infinity: eheheh
[01:06] <fabbione> maswan: Uptime: 91 days, 20:46
[01:06] <fabbione> what about doing a few tons of security updates on that box?
[01:07] <Hwolf> fabbione: good piont. :-)
[01:10] <Hwolf> fabbione: be good!
[01:10] <fabbione> nah i would never do stupid stuff like hacking other people boxes
[01:10] <fabbione> it's really STUPID
[01:11] <Hwolf> fabbione: I think most of the people present realise that. :-)
[01:13] <fabbione> Hwolf: never assume anything in here.. 
[01:14] <fabbione> elmo assumed that nobody was going to do a -j400 on concordia :)
[01:19] <Hwolf> fabbione: outside of my working hours, I treasure my assumptions
[01:23] <pitti> sjoerd: I'm at rewriting pmount-hal in C
[01:24] <pitti> sjoerd: now it uses 0.2 sec instead of 2.7 :-)
[01:24] <jdub> pitti: zoooom!
[01:24] <pitti> jdub: calling hal-get-property repeatedly was a massive slowdown
[01:25] <jdub> that'll be a nice boost in response time
[01:27] <Hwolf> pitti: am I hearing faster ubuntu here? 
[01:27] <pitti> :-)
[01:27] <Hwolf> just curious, do you have any target-system that you'd expect ubuntu to be smooth on?
[01:31] <darklight> fabbione dong
[01:32] <Kamion> please don't make me think about fabbione's dong; I was about to have lunch
[01:32] <infinity> I hope it wasn't a bratwurst.
[01:33] <pitti> hey, Bratwurst is goood stuff
[01:33] <infinity> pitti : Not when you associate it with fabbione's dong, it ain't.
[01:33] <sivang> Kamion: hehehe
[01:33] <fabbione> darklight: ?
[01:35] <thom_> mjg59: if laptop-mode-tools is up to date, sure we should use that
[01:35] <sivang> anybody has any idea how to make irssi act as a proxy? net latency is killing me :)
[01:35] <sivang> the instrcutions on the site are rather, brief 
[01:36] <sivang> (an unworking)
[01:36] <elmo> sivang: http://www.garion.org/irssi/irssi-proxy.php
[01:37] <thom> is madwifi in the kernel or in l-r-m?
[01:37] <elmo> sivang: basically, /load proxy and then set irssiproxy_ports and irssiproxy_password variables
[01:37] <elmo> sivang: then check it's listening on the port(s) you chose with netstat
[01:37] <sivang> elmo: did that, it's listening, still no go :-/
[01:38] <elmo> how do you mean? how are you trying to connect?
[01:38] <sivang> elmo: but thanks for that doc, much more clearer then irssi's ones :)
[01:38] <sivang> elmo: listing the server which irssi-proxy runs on as the chatnet server, and changing the port
[01:38] <sivang> elmo: then attempting autoconnect on startup from my local irssi client
[01:38] <rubenv> erm
[01:38] <rubenv> am i reading right
[01:39] <rubenv> or does he connect to the same port 4 times?
[01:39] <mjg59> thom: l-r-m
[01:39] <mjg59> thom: #6111 as well
[01:39] <rubenv> i thought you needed a seperate port per irc net
[01:39] <sivang> elmo: should I be quitting irssi on the server after loading the module? 
[01:40] <Kamion> fabbione: where's my choose-mirror_1.06ubuntu3_sparc.udeb, eh? :)
[01:40] <rubenv> sivang: detach it from screen i think
[01:40] <fabbione> Kamion: in the queue
[01:40] <sivang> elmo: looks like your doc is very nice, I'll give it a try then come back and bother again if I don't successed :)
[01:40] <elmo> sivang: it's not my doc dude, it's just something thom pointed me at
[01:41] <sivang> elmo: ok, then thanks to you and upstream to thom and to the one who wrote it :)
[01:52] <dholbach> bye guys... i'm off
[02:01] <darklight> volleys to everybody
[02:01] <darklight> I would like to propose some project I regard the Kernel team
[02:03] <Mithrandir> lamont: is avifile in PaS?
[02:04] <fabbione> darklight: speak up :-)
[02:04] <elmo> %avifile: i386                                                        # i386 Win32 DLLs needed/executed
[02:04] <elmo> Mithrandir: P-a-s is available on cvs.d.o btw
[02:04] <Mithrandir> elmo: we use the same PaS?
[02:04] <infinity> dak/srcdep
[02:04] <infinity> Mithrandir : Yes, elmo syncs it from time to time.
[02:05] <infinity> Hence the appearance of amd64 all over Debian's P-a-s. :)
[02:05] <Mithrandir> ah, ok.
[02:05] <Mithrandir> goodie
[02:05] <Mithrandir> elmo: I'll stop harassing you and lamont about that, then. :)
[02:09] <fabbione> thom: l-r-m -> daniels please
[02:12] <thom> fabbione: fix bugzilla; i just reassigned to default owner
[02:13] <fabbione> ah crap
[02:15] <fabbione> Kamion: choose-mirror is building now
[02:18] <Kamion> ta
[02:19] <darklight> beyond trying it gets bug in sources i would want to create a guide where they come listed to all the new functionalities of the kernel
[02:22] <darklight> to say the truth they are the two guides. one for the bug and an other for adding drivers or to new functionality
[02:22] <fabbione> darklight: so you want to produce documentation, right?
[02:23] <Kamion> perhaps that kind of guide would fit better in kernel upstream than in a distribution-specific context?
[02:27] <rcaskey__> yeesh, this week is the week of the Ubuntu live cd
[02:27] <rcaskey__> everyone wants to have their name on it
[02:29] <Kamion> c'mon, halley, build X damnit
[02:29] <fabbione> ahha
[02:30] <fabbione> it will take ages there if you don't have ccache
[02:30] <Kamion> davis and concordia finished ages ago, and halley started first by some distance
[02:30] <fabbione> yeah
[02:30] <fabbione> same with the kernel
[02:30] <fabbione> ia64 is teh sux
[02:30] <thom> concordia > * ;-)_
[02:30] <fabbione> thom++
[02:32] <thom> fabbione: see the "please update ipw2100 to 1.0.2" post?
[02:34] <fabbione> thom: which mailing list?
[02:36] <thom> u-d
[02:36] <thom> i think
[02:36] <darklight> clearly it is remained in the context of ubuntu even if it is remained in the sphere of linux. The scope is to make to choose if and when to dawn just kernel based on the functionalities of the new releases
[02:37] <fabbione> thom: ipw2100            | 1.0.2                      | ok     | 13/12/2004   | http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/
[02:38] <fabbione> thom: people don't even know what they are running :-)
[02:39] <fabbione> + they should really use bugzilla
[02:39] <thom> heh
[02:40] <fabbione> i have way too many ml
[02:45] <fabbione> Kamion: choose-mirror_1.06ubuntu3_sparc.changes ACCEPTED
[02:47] <fabbione> after this fight with kernel boot options i can easily set it up to disable your browser from accessing bugzilla.u.c and bitch me
[02:48] <mjg59> fabbione: The mail actually asks for 1.0.4
[02:49] <lamont> fabbione: did we get -14 yet?
[02:50] <elmo> ARE WE THERE YET?
[02:51] <Hwolf> elmo: I'm still here, sorry
[02:51] <thom> mjg59: 2, 4. same odds :-)
[02:51] <mjg59> Haha
[02:51] <mjg59> Arse, late
[03:00] <Mitario> mvo_, pingping ;)
[03:00] <Mitario> lo everyone
[03:01] <fabbione> mjg59: yeah but it claims we run 0.55 :-)
[03:01] <fabbione> lamont: i can't upload until X is fixed and LiveCD built on top of it
[03:13] <Hwolf> fabbione: is there anything we can expect from X on the short term? any droolishly good stuff?
[03:16] <mvo_> hi Mitario 
[03:16] <mvo_> welcome back :)
[03:16] <Mitario> hi :)
[03:16] <Mitario> ty!
[03:17] <Mitario> bleh my xchat periode has ended on XP, now I have to use mIRC :/
[03:17] <fabbione> Hwolf: you should ask daniels ;)
[03:23] <pitti> fuck, why does my computer crash when I remove my USB stick?
[03:23] <pitti> faaaaaaaaaaabio!
[03:25] <rubenv> pitti: same problem here
[03:25] <rubenv> my guess:
[03:25] <rubenv> linux kernel freaks because of lost device with unflushed buffers
[03:25] <rubenv> this should be done more gracefully
[03:25] <rubenv> if only I were a kernel hacker
[03:25] <pitti> that never happened before
[03:25] <infinity> Mitario : Try Bersirc -- http://bersirc.free2code.net/
[03:26] <pitti> rubenv: I inserted and removed my USB stick so many times, it always worked without crashing
[03:26] <rubenv> pitti: i know
[03:26] <rubenv> exactly the same here
[03:26] <rubenv> but probably yu were always lucky not having unflushed buffers
[03:26] <rubenv> in fact you should unmount first
[03:27] <pitti> rubenv: I did
[03:27] <pitti> rubenv: in fact this happened during "pumount"
[03:27] <fabbione> pitti: it's inotify.. i am working on it
[03:27] <smurfix> pitti: for me, just unplugging works 95%, the other 5% -- ouch
[03:27] <pitti> fabbione: ah, ok
[03:27] <elmo> is inotify utterly critical for us?
[03:27] <rubenv> elmo: yes :)
[03:27] <fabbione> if you start monitoring the mountpoint or anything in it.. BUUM
[03:27] <pitti> fabbione: this sucks really hard, doesn't it
[03:27] <fabbione> pitti: 5431
[03:27] <rubenv> elmo: unless you want FAM back ;)
[03:27] <fabbione> and i have a workaround for it that i can't even upload now
[03:27] <pitti> noooooo, no fam
[03:28] <fabbione> elmo: upstream is working hard to fix the problem.. 
[03:28] <fabbione> we exchanged 20 mails/patches only yesterday
[03:28] <fabbione> now i am going to make it a boot option as workaround
[03:28] <rubenv> it should be mentioned that inotify is very young and already very impressive technology
[03:28] <fabbione> so you can disable inotify if the machine freezes
[03:29] <Mitario> infinity, ah thank you very much :)
[03:29] <infinity> Mitario : 1.4 is pretty full featured, but closed.  2.x is a rewrite as Free Software.  Take your pick.  Both work.
[03:30] <fabbione> who run 686 kernels here and have the usb crash problem?
[03:31] <pitti> k7
[03:31] <Mitario> is 2.x the same as 1.4? or does it still need some cleanups
[03:31] <fabbione> rubenv: any binary driver like nvidia or ati?
[03:31] <Mitario[1] > ok ;)
[03:31] <rubenv> fabbione: yes, nvidia
[03:31] <pitti> fabbione: I don't have a binary driver
[03:31] <Mitario[1] > hmm, UI is a bit slow/weird though ;)
[03:31] <fabbione> rubenv: if you can temporary use the nv driver in X i have a test kernel for you
[03:32] <fabbione> pitti: i didn't build k7 :-)
[03:32] <fabbione> pitti: gimme a few and i will do
[03:32] <pitti> fabbione: ah, I thought it was a poll for diagnostics
[03:32] <fabbione> pitti: no.. i have test kernels...
[03:32] <fabbione> but i did build only 686 :-)
[03:32] <rubenv> fabbione: I'm pretty constained to nvidia, unless I only wanna use a small part of my screen
[03:33] <rubenv> also I don't have a USB stick here at the moment
[03:33] <maswan> fabbione: Well, if debian had had proper security updates for the kernel...
[03:33] <rubenv> but If you'd like, I'll test it tonight
[03:33] <Kamion> damnit
[03:33] <fabbione> maswan: they do...
[03:33] <Hwolf> maswan: debian is about the safest thing out there, or should be
[03:33] <maswan> fabbione: I haven't seen a kernel dsa in ages
[03:34] <Mitario_> allright
[03:34] <Mitario_> 1.4 works better :)
[03:34] <infinity> mitario : 1.4 is much better, yes.
[03:34] <Hwolf> maswan: official woody uses an ancient kernel, remember?
[03:34] <fabbione> maswan: so what? did you ever check 2.6.10 changelog recently?
[03:35] <infinity> Mitario : Though, if you feel the urge to contribute to a project that's not XChat/Win32, then Bersirc 2.x is it.
[03:35] <Mitario> yeah
[03:35] <Mitario> well, just needed an irc client other then mIRC :)
[03:36] <Hwolf> xchat blows mirc out of the water, imho
[03:36] <fabbione> pitti: so how do i reproduce that crash? insert an USB device and unplug it without umount?
[03:36] <pitti> fabbione: for me it just happened during pumount
[03:36] <rubenv> fabbione: that's how i do it
[03:36] <pitti> fabbione: but it's a gamble, most of the time it just works
[03:37] <pitti> fabbione: it happened only twice today for me
[03:37] <maswan> fabbione: No, not really. I know that the kernels have serious holes, yes. But the half point of running a distribution is to get security upgrades, not having to track development for issues that might turn up and then do trial-and-error for compatibility.
[03:37] <infinity> Hwolf : And it's also time-limited shareware on Win32.  Hence Mitario's search for something else.
[03:37] <pitti> fabbione: while i mount/umounted about 50 times (new pmount version...)
[03:37] <fabbione> pitti: ok....
[03:38] <Hwolf> infinity; win32 makes me shiver, please don't do that to me.
[03:38] <fabbione> rubenv: ok.. i can test that
[03:38] <Kamion> daniels: ok, I'm uploading an xorg which should actually build on all architectures, unlike -1ubuntu14, but doesn't have the changes in -1ubuntu13 that mdz reckons broke the live CD. I'll leave you to resolve the differences :-(
[03:38] <rubenv> fabbione: i'll bug you tonight if I find a USB stick
[03:38] <zul> hey
[03:38] <fabbione> rubenv: i might not be around.. you can test this kernel: people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/linux-image.....
[03:38] <fabbione> hey zul
[03:39] <Kamion> daniels: The only diff from -1ubuntu14 to -1ubuntu15 that wasn't part of your previous upload is removing tdfx_dri.so from MANIFEST.ia64.in; you can throw away that change once you start building it on ia64 again, as I'm sure you know.
[03:39] <rubenv> fabbione: ok, it's on my list of things to do when feeling bored & destructive
[03:40] <fabbione> rubenv: there is no binary nvidia for that kernel.. so that you know
[03:40] <rubenv> fabbione: i can live with that for testing purposes
[03:40] <fabbione> ok
[03:40] <elmo> d3vic3: 
[03:40] <elmo> ?
[03:43] <d3vic3> yes
[03:43] <d3vic3> elmo, 
[03:43] <maswan> fabbione: btw, this is one of the reasons for wanting to move to ubuntu, since I've so far gotten security upgrades for my laptop, unlike my desktop which runs woody, or having to handle unofficial sid snapshots in the amd64 case.
[03:44] <elmo> d3vic3: these python2.4 simpy packages are empty?
[03:44] <jbailey> Is our Lintian package toold for Ubuntus section names and such?
[03:44] <d3vic3> empty ?
[03:45] <Kamion> jbailey: yeah, I did that a little while back
[03:45] <RainMoods> Hi all
[03:45] <jbailey> Kamion: Nice, thanks.
[03:45] <RainMoods> Upgrading to hoary broke my system... Can anybody help out?
[03:45] <jdub> RainMoods: #ubuntu would be more appropriate
[03:46] <RainMoods> This is the error I got: Failed to start message bus: failed to read directory: "/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/services" No such file or directory
[03:46] <RainMoods> would #ubuntu be more appropriate? They just pointed me to this channel :o(
[03:46] <Hwolf> jdub, it'd be good to have someone help him track down what went wrong and file a good bug, right?
[03:46] <elmo> d3vic3: there's nothing in them, except for the /usr/share/doc/$pkg/ directory
[03:47] <d3vic3> ok, I'll check 
[03:47] <fabbione> pitti: building k7/686 now...
[03:49] <Mitario> brb
[03:49] <zul> fabbione: for the phpacpi patch do you want me to send it as a dpatch from now on?
[03:50] <fabbione> zul: it's already part of another upstream patch i did include to get battery status working again
[03:50] <fabbione> no need to update it anymore
[03:50] <zul> k
[03:50] <fabbione> ohohohohoh NEW D-I
[03:50] <zul> but for any other patches would a dpatch do?
[03:51] <fabbione> zul: dpatch is fine but you need to name it properly.
[03:51] <zul> k
[03:51] <zul> what would you prefer the naming scheme?
[03:51] <fabbione> zul: stolen_from_head when they come from upstream and they need to apply after the last stolen-from-head_ and before the first external patches
[03:51] <fabbione> zul: the one that it is in use now
[03:51] <zul> k
[03:51] <fabbione> so that each major release we can just trash stolen_*
[03:52] <fabbione> and rediff the others
[03:52] <zul> gotcha
[03:52] <fabbione> also, if the patch depends on another one, i need to know that
[03:52] <fabbione> specially if we need to drop something
[03:53] <Treenaks> 3 xorgs in 1 day.. is this some kind of record?
[03:53] <elmo> it's certainly not a good one
[03:54] <elmo> I'm going to come up with some kind of bandwidth-o-meter that electrocutes developers if they upload something that'll cause more than 200Mb of traffic in a day 
[03:54] <fabbione> i don't think i never uploaded X that much.. max twice iirc
[03:54] <fabbione> ;.(
[03:54] <fabbione> elmo: does that mean that you will upload the kernel from now on?
[03:54] <fabbione> iirc that's around 500Mb?
[03:55] <elmo> yes, I know, and it sucks
[03:55] <rubenv> hurray for pkg diffs :)
[03:57] <fabbione> ok USB remove without umount crash reproduced
[03:58] <rubenv> :-)
[04:01] <pitti> carlos: ping
[04:01] <carlos> pitti: pong
[04:01] <pitti> carlos: anything wrong with Rosetta?
[04:01] <pitti> carlos: I tried to upload a new pmount pot two times now
[04:01] <pitti> carlos: it just doesn't appear
[04:01] <carlos> hmm
[04:01] <carlos> just a second
[04:01] <carlos> we changed the way we import them
[04:01] <fabbione> GO AND DIE INOTIFY!!!!!
[04:02] <jbailey> Nice rhyme. =)
[04:02] <Treenaks> jbailey: we need cheerleaders to chant it!
[04:03] <rubenv> *gogo rml*
[04:03] <jbailey> elmo, mdz: I split off the plugin into nagios-radius-plugin, since adding 40k of code grafted on was less painful than 20 lines of configury and Makefile.  I have both packages here.  Do I need to do anything special, or just upload them?  (I don't see any mention in the wiki of things like ITPing and such)
[04:03] <fabbione> rubenv: you know that it is inotify crashing your machine when you unplug the USB stick?
[04:04] <elmo> jbailey: just uploading is fine
[04:04] <rubenv> fabbione: yes, but i rather carry around my laptop to transfer data then use fam :-)
[04:04] <Treenaks> fabbione: don't do that then :P
[04:04] <lamont> fabbione: -14: ok.  sigh....  I want a new kernel right after array 4 then... :-)
[04:04] <fabbione> lamont: i can't upload.. really.. i have an ABI change
[04:04] <fabbione> that i really cannot avoid
[04:06] <zul> fabbione: oh yeah that libata bug (6109) do you want to take a crack at it
[04:06] <lamont> fabbione: yeah, I understand.
[04:06] <lamont> it's not like ia64/live was working before this either... :-(
[04:06] <fabbione> zul: i already imported some libata updates a while ago.. just double check them.. it would be great :-)
[04:06] <zul> k
[04:06] <lamont> Kamion: an ia64 install disk is probably useful for array 4, live need not ship
[04:10] <carlos> pitti: fixed
[04:10] <carlos> pitti: and imported
[04:10] <carlos> pitti: thanks for the report
[04:10] <fabbione> pitti: 5431 is an update
[04:10] <fabbione> s/is/has
[04:10] <pitti> carlos: okay, then I can upload the new POs now?
[04:11] <carlos> pitti: some of them where already uploaded and imported
[04:11] <carlos>  /s/where/were/
[04:11] <pitti> carlos: well, I tried, but they did not appear
[04:11] <carlos> pitti: should be there now
[04:12] <carlos> pitti: but you can import them again if you want
[04:12] <pitti> carlos: yes, indeed. everything is there now. THanks!
[04:12] <carlos> pitti: np
[04:13] <pitti> fabbione: oh, thanks for the workaround
[04:13] <fabbione> pitti: i am uploading a kernel for you to test
[04:13] <daniels> Kamion: blah.  thanks.
[04:14] <fabbione> nothing special.. you can just boot with 'noinotify' and it will work via dnotify
[04:14] <pitti> fabbione: we shall test this?
[04:14] <pitti> fabbione: so the next kernel will not have inotify?
[04:15] <fabbione> pitti: yes. not everybody needs noinotify
[04:15] <fabbione> yes it will as the old ones
[04:15] <fabbione> but you can disable it at boot
[04:15] <fabbione> as an option
[04:15] <fabbione> upstream is still working on a real fix to the problem
[04:15] <pitti> okay
[04:15] <fabbione> -13 that was released yesterday was not even capable of booting the kernel
[04:16] <fabbione> anf i got -14 this morning 2 hours before kernel.org
[04:16] <fabbione> :-)
[04:16] <fabbione> sorry inotify -13 and -14
[04:19] <jdub> fabbione: cool, glad rml is playing
[04:19] <jdub> (i, um, kinda pinged nat about it...)
[04:23] <fabbione> apparently i was the only one reporting bugs/patches to him
[04:23] <fabbione> and we are the only distro with inotify 
[04:23] <fabbione> at least...
[04:23] <rubenv> fabbione: don't forget gentoo, they throw in everything
[04:24] <fabbione> >I am not 100% sure if Jeff Waugh got in touch with you, but we (as ubuntu)
[04:24] <fabbione> >> are having a problem with inotify (even if damn proud to ship it).
[04:24] <fabbione> And I am very, very happy that you guys ship it.  ;-) 
[04:24] <fabbione> rubenv: well.. pointless if they don't report problems to upstream
[04:24] <zul> heh gentoo
[04:25] <Treenaks> fabbione: gentoo does not have bugs!
[04:25] <Treenaks> fabbione: bugs don
[04:25] <rubenv> fabbione: gentoo users are used to breakage, they just wait ;-)
[04:25] <Treenaks> t exist if you build from source
[04:25] <fabbione> Treenaks: right.. they build with -ONOBUGS
[04:25] <jdub> fabbione: atm, we are
[04:25] <Treenaks> fabbione: yeah..
[04:25] <fabbione> rubenv: another reason for not using gentoo
[04:26] <fabbione> ;)
[04:26] <zul> fabbione: damn straight
[04:26] <fabbione> no.. that's wrong...
[04:27] <fabbione> zul: does gentoo use inotify?
[04:27] <zul> fabbione: not that i know of i dont think so
[04:27] <fabbione> ok
[04:28] <zul> its kind of a policy of gentoo not to have cvs type software in their tree
[04:28] <zul> er..cvs quality
[04:29] <zul> well there is
[04:30] <zul> devs get pissed if they break their tree...anyways
[04:31] <fabbione> eheh
[04:53] <pitti> ahem, this time I did not even try to umount/remove the usb stick...
[04:55] <fabbione> pitti: the kernel is on people
[04:55] <fabbione> in my home
[04:55] <pitti> nice, thanks
[04:55] <fabbione> pitti: boot with noinotify option
[04:55] <fabbione> have fun
[04:55] <pitti> well, exactly now I finished the last pmount/gvm test :-)
[04:58] <pitti> elmo: please sync pmount 0.7-1 from incoming
[04:59] <mjg59> fabbione: Good news about the acpi stuff
[04:59] <fabbione> mjg59: tested here.. it works and fix the battery problem
[05:00] <mjg59> Yeah
[05:00] <mjg59> It ought to solve some other issues, too
[05:00] <fabbione> good
[05:00] <fabbione> i managed to hunt down the USB storage problems today
[05:00] <mjg59> Excellent
[05:01] <mjg59> Things are looking in pretty good shape
[05:01] <fabbione> next will be to sacrifice jdub as virgin to get it fixed
[05:01] <mjg59> I've got some Sony hardware that I'm going to play with now
[05:01] <mjg59> Need to find a working CD drive first, though
[05:01] <fabbione> mjg59: still missing ALSA and some other USB stuff
[05:01] <elmo> pitti: is it urgent?
[05:01] <pitti> elmo: well, not really
[05:01] <mjg59> fabbione: Pff. Nobody needs them.
[05:01] <mjg59> (cough)
[05:02] <fabbione> mjg59: ehehhehe
[05:02] <pitti> elmo: but sabdfl wanted me to upload new versions to Ubuntu no later than to Debian
[05:02] <pitti> elmo: I can as well upload a -0ubuntu1
[05:02] <fabbione> i am seriously thinking to backport all of alsa and usb back to 2.6.10
[05:03] <elmo> pitti: besides it's a new upstream version
[05:03] <elmo> pitti: you'll need to do the usual UVF procedure
[05:04] <pitti> elmo: already ack'ed
[05:04] <pitti> elmo: mdz agreed to put new pmount fixes into new upstream versions since I'm upstream myself
[05:05] <elmo> ok, well please leave it for now; I want to talk to mdz about how we should handle this
[05:05] <pitti> okay
[05:07] <fabbione> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/tdfx_dri.so': No such file or directory
[05:08] <fabbione> argh.. not even a MANIFEST check....
[05:08] <Kamion> fabbione: mm? I'm fairly sure I fixed that bit on ia64
[05:08] <Kamion> in -1ubuntu15
[05:08] <daniels> Kamion: u15 is still ftbfs
[05:08] <fabbione> well it failed on the buildd
[05:08] <Kamion> daniels: crap
[05:08] <fabbione> ok please no ubuntu16 today ok?
[05:09] <Kamion> sigh. I fixed that, damnit.
[05:09] <Kamion> fabbione: at this point, array 4 can wait
[05:09] <daniels> Kamion: don't worry about it.  i'm about to go to bed (well, back to bed; for some reason I had a compulsive urge to go and check the build logs etc), so if you give me a few hours to catch up on sleep, I'll do u16 later on.
[05:09] <fabbione> Kamion: i am afraid so...
[05:09] <daniels> and this time, we can give it the testing it needs.
[05:10] <daniels> 'night all
[05:10] <Kamion> daniels: yeah, it was worth a try; at least mdz will have his live CDs, since this one built on amd64/i386/powerpc
[05:10] <tseng> bye daniels.
[05:10] <fabbione> daniels: please try not to destroy sparc.. it's almost friday :-)
[05:10] <zul> night daniels 
[05:10] <Kamion> and, since that was basically the mandate I got this morning ...
[05:11] <tseng> lamont: when you get up would you mind telling me what happened with tomboy-0.3.1-0ubuntu4, upload was accepted yesterday but no log
[05:11] <fabbione> Kamion: since we are delaying array4, would it be reasonable to try (just once and for the sake of it) to build a sparc cd?
[05:12] <Kamion> fabbione: there's a fair amount of infrastructure to set up (mirroring sparc.ubuntu.com onto little, for a start), but I'll see what I can do
[05:12] <fabbione> Kamion: than no.. stop here
[05:12] <fabbione> no need to spend time on it
[05:12] <fabbione> i tought it was something simple
[05:17] <Kamion> elmo: so ... can you remind me what the problem with --copy-links in little's anonftpsync was?
[05:17] <Kamion> elmo: oh, was it dists/*/main/*installer-*/current
[05:17] <Kamion> ?
[05:17] <elmo> yeah
[05:18] <elmo> and you need --copy-links for pool/ because of the games I play with components
[05:18] <elmo> s/and/but/
[05:18] <Kamion> right, that was why I added it
[05:19] <Kamion> hm. the problem is, your version is "mirror everything but the indices, then mirror everything (including indices)"; I can't just add it to the second run since that would probably overwrite the current symlinks with copies
[05:19] <Kamion> sorry, just to the first run, I mean
[05:19] <Kamion> oh, and what's the "--exclude complete" for?
[05:19] <elmo> that's a bug
[05:19] <elmo> it's something from hoglet era
[05:20] <Kamion> ok, I'll trash that
[05:20] <elmo> I just used that anonftpsync two-pass thing 'cos it's what I had handy, you don't necessarily need it
[05:20] <elmo> you could turn it into one pass of everything, and then a second pass of pool/ only with --copy-links or so
[05:21] <elmo> the two pass of anonftpsync is designed so that the mirror's never inconsistent (in theory); I guess that's not an issue for you
[05:21] <Kamion> and maybe no --delete on the second pass; that would avoid consistency problems, wouldn't it?
[05:22] <Kamion> well, it is an issue I think, I'm not locking on Archive-Update-in-Progress or anything
[05:22] <Kamion> (and can't really, since it's remote)
[05:23] <elmo> I meant consistent locally; I don't think we can address the issue of you catching archive.u.c mid-mirror
[05:24] <Kamion> ok, I'll try that two-pass rearrangement out and see what happens
[05:26] <jbailey> fabbione: Am I on crack?  I swear I saw the DSDT initrd patches in our kernels...
[05:27] <lamont> tseng: if you upload to clear a build-dep, and the package is dep-wait on that... then you need to tell me to release it..
[05:27] <mvo_> elmo: what was the reason again for not having a "stable" symlink in the ubuntu archive?
[05:27] <Kamion> elmo: although leaving out --delete on the second pass probably doesn't matter, since files are kept around for long enough before garbage-collection that little should never lose stuff that the current indices refer to
[05:28] <elmo> mvo_: err.. I actually can't remember :(
[05:28] <tseng> lamont: ah sorry I did read that. thats definately the case
[05:28] <smurfix> mvo_: ubuntu's committed to supporting the last three releases, so what's the "stable" one?
[05:28] <elmo> smurfix: stable, stabler, stablest
[05:28] <elmo> ;)
[05:29] <mvo_> hrm ... I would like to check for new distro releases with update-manager so a stable symlink would come handy (to get the latest stable release file)
[05:30] <Kamion> stable, oldstable, crustystable
[05:30] <tseng> or.. current
[05:30] <lamont> mvo_: you really want to be able to specify whether you want to be 0, 6, 12, or 18 months out of date, no?
[05:30] <tseng> which seems to make sense to me.
[05:31] <jbailey> fabbione: I am on crack, found it.
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> aww man
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> I really need to update firefox
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> it crashes as soon as I try to type something in google, or in the search bar
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> first letter I type BAM
[05:31] <smurfix> mvo_: updating to the next release isn't something that should be happening automagically. Keeping uptodate with the release you use is (potentially). So why a symlink? It's ultimately dangerous.
[05:32] <mvo_> lamont: yes, basicly I need to know that last releases to check if a new release is available and if this release will be stop being supported
[05:32] <Kamion> lamont: tried to kick off live CD builds, but:
[05:32] <Kamion> + ssh buildd@terranova.buildd /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD
[05:32] <Kamion> Password:
[05:32] <mvo_> smurfix: I agree that there shouldn't be a automatic upgrade. I'm just thinking about how to keep track of the current/past releases to inform the user in a nice way :)
[05:34] <smurfix> mvo_: I'd propose a small package which lists that stuff and which is updated in every release when a new one comes out.
[05:34] <tseng> mvo_: i think of it in less of a debian "stable" sense and more of a gnome ftp "LATEST-IS" sense
[05:35] <smurfix> tseng: exactly
[05:35] <smurfix> mvo_: Then if a release is no longer supported, we could put up a last update which pops up a big fat warning.
[05:36] <lamont> Kamion: hrmpf. checking
[05:37] <lamont> Kamion: command="/home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD",no-pty,no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding ssh-dss AAAAB3N...
[05:37] <lamont> wonder if I have the key wrong?
[05:37] <tseng> mvo_: smurfix hm yes, a lastest-is or current symlink in the parent dir of all dists, and then an empty file UNSUPPORTED or EOL in the dist dir
[05:38] <fabbione> or simply a SUPPORTED file with an array that would indicate the age too
[05:39] <fabbione> like stable[0] =
[05:39] <fabbione> and so on..
[05:39] <fabbione> where 0 is always the latest
[05:39] <lamont> Kamion: for the moment, you want me to just kick them?
[05:40] <tseng> lamont: build cleared x86, thanks much.
[05:42] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, please
[05:42] <lamont> kicked everywhere
[05:43] <lamont> (didn't want ia64 to feel left out, you know...)
[05:43] <fabbione> ehheeh
[05:45] <fabbione>  signfile debian-installer_20041227ubuntu8_sparc.changes C14C0CBD
[05:47] <fabbione> cya tomorrow guys
[05:50] <pitti> bye fabbione 
[05:51] <Kamion> elmo: ok, fixed more permanently now, I think
[05:52] <elmo> Kamion: cool
[05:54] <Kamion> elmo: could you kill /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/ftp.bak/pool/main/g/gs-esp? it's owned by mdz and not group-writable
[05:54] <elmo> done
[05:55] <Kamion> ta
[05:56] <Kamion> no idea how that happened; anonftpsync has always forced umask 002
[06:08] <dholbach> re
[06:09] <tseng> hi there
[06:15] <tseng> lo mxpxpod 
[06:15] <tseng> we were talking about you last night :)
[06:16] <mxpxpod> oh?
[06:17] <tseng> ya, about swapping the tomboy icon. i mailed you aboot it.
[06:17] <mxpxpod> heh
[06:17] <tseng> i dont recall what bits you changed
[06:17] <mxpxpod> haha
[06:17] <mxpxpod> the stupid tintin icon sucks
[06:17] <tseng> i was too tired to poke it much
[06:18] <tseng> just did a grep tintin.png | grep -v Makefile
[06:18] <tseng> and came up empty
[06:18] <mxpxpod> heh
[06:18] <tseng> iirc it was hardcoded somewhere
[06:18] <tseng> when you did it.
[06:18] <mxpxpod> i can email you a patch
[06:18] <tseng> great.
[06:18] <tseng> (note the new version has an applet as well)
[06:19] <mxpxpod> great
[06:19] <tseng> the old patch is a start, thanks
[06:19] <mxpxpod> k
[06:22] <thom> lamont: working with mozilla.org ?
[06:22] <lamont> thom: postfix
[06:22] <lamont> ipv6
[06:22] <thom> ahr
[06:25] <tseng> are the logs of this channel publicly available?
[06:29] <mxpxpod> tseng: you need to put your tomboy source pkgs in your repo
[06:29] <tseng> mxpxpod: they are in hoary
[06:29] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[06:29] <tseng> or are you warty?
[06:30] <mxpxpod> even the 1.3's?
[06:30] <tseng> 1.3.1
[06:30] <spiral> hi
[06:30] <mxpxpod> cool
[06:30] <tseng> the binary hasnt made it in yet, just built a little bit ago
[06:30] <tseng> source should be there
[06:30] <mxpxpod> k
[06:30] <mxpxpod> i'll check it out
[06:31] <thom> tseng: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs iirc
[06:32] <mxpxpod> k
[06:32] <mxpxpod> thanks
[06:32] <tseng> thanks thom 
[06:32] <mxpxpod> gotta go
[06:33] <lamont> I AM INVINCIBLE!
[06:33] <Kamion> This processor "Transmeta(tm) Crusoe(tm) Processor TM5800" is known _not_ to support power-saving.
[06:33] <Kamion> hm, oh well
[06:34] <mxpxpod> tseng: ah, I remember what I did
[06:34] <mxpxpod> it should be easy to fix up your tomboy packages with a better icon :)
[06:35] <sivang> rehi all
[06:35] <tseng> mxpxpod: wonderful, thanks.
[06:36] <mxpxpod> tseng: just have to find the icons again :)
[06:36] <tseng> i have them
[06:36] <tseng> http://primates.ximian.com/~jimmac/blog/Artwork/Tomboy
[06:36] <mxpxpod> rawk!
[06:36] <tseng> one more
[06:37] <tseng> http://primates.ximian.com/~jimmac/blog/Artwork/LowresTomboy
[06:37] <mxpxpod> that's the one
[06:38] <mxpxpod> ok, i gotta go... I'll take a look at the package later
[06:41] <lamont> anyone have a stock warty /etc/postfix/master.cf lying around?
[06:42] <otavio> Hello folks ... I'm interested to know if anyone are interest to send xresprobe to Debian for include. It's interesting for others derived distributions like debian-edu and debian-br-cdd, like in my case.
[06:43] <amu> lamont: if a warty debbootrap is fine for y also ...
[06:43] <dholbach> lamont: http://moz.gotdns.org/master.cf
[06:43] <lamont> amu: I have that - will probably just go that route
[06:43] <lamont> or snag dholbach's.
[06:44] <lamont> dholbach: that's not a stock warty install
[06:44] <lamont> you've told it something other than 'Local only'
[06:44] <dholbach> lamont: oh sorry, yes, it was hoary already
[06:44] <Kamion> otavio: best talk to daniels
[06:47] <otavio> daniels: there?
[06:47] <otavio> Kamion: thanks a lot
[06:49] <lamont> Kamion: postinst configure gets passed the old version, yes?
[06:49] <spiral> hmmm.... http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~dbildh/Linux_On_TM4001/#smartbattery... Do you plan to put this in ubuntu ?
[06:49] <spiral> It's about smart batteries
[06:50] <Kamion> lamont: thus saith policy 6.6 ...
[06:50] <lamont> thjans
[07:02] <thom> spiral: mjg59 was looking at smart battery support
[07:05] <mdz> Kamion: what's the good word?
[07:06] <pitti> Hi mdz
[07:07] <Kamion> mdz: took most of the day to fix up xorg
[07:07] <tseng> lamont: does that package have to be pushed to the mirrors now that it built? im not seeing it hop over
[07:08] <Kamion> mdz: and now alsa's apparently fucked, so the live filesystems won't build
[07:08] <Kamion> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of alsa-base:
[07:08] <Kamion>  alsa-base depends on alsa-utils (>= 1.0.8-1); however:
[07:08] <Kamion>   Version of alsa-utils on system is 1.0.7-2ubuntu2.
[07:08] <lamont> tseng: should be automagical
[07:08] <Kamion> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of alsa-utils:
[07:08] <Kamion>  alsa-utils depends on alsa-base (>> 1.0.7-1); however:
[07:08] <Kamion>   Package alsa-base is not configured yet.
[07:09] <sladen> thom: seen the latest cpufreq post---I think after the freature freeze I'll look at the whole thing again as despite the number of fixes, it's breaking others
[07:09] <thom> yeah
[07:09] <Mithrandir> alsa-base is uninstallable, yes
[07:09] <thom> just asked them to file a bug
[07:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that's critical; do you know if anyone's working on fixing it?
[07:10] <Mithrandir> no idea, I noticed just before I left for dinner.
[07:10] <Kamion> ah, alsa-utils failed to build on all architectures
[07:10] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/alsa-utils/1.0.8-1ubuntu1/
[07:12] <lamont> Kamion: mdz uploaded it last... :-)
[07:12] <Kamion> however, that was mdz's upload, so ... :)
[07:12] <mdz> Kamion: I uploaded alsa-utils 1.0.8-1 yesterday to fix that
[07:12] <mdz> gah
[07:12] <mdz> After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
[07:12] <Kamion> looks like alsa-lib needs to be uploaded too
[07:12] <mdz> needs alsa-li bas well
[07:12] <mdz> yep
[07:13] <mdz> lamont: can you explain http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/alsa-lib/alsa-lib_ubuntu.patch ?
[07:13] <pitti> mdz: in a quiet minute, could you please take a look at #1956? I have a new g-v-m ready that would support the autorun feature (default off, of course)
[07:13] <mdz> seems to merge OK, but i have no idea what it means
[07:14] <mdz> pitti: is it necessary to have a --exec switch?  when would it be used, and when not used?
[07:14] <pitti> mdz: if autorun is disabled, it is not used, just like now
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: if autorun gets enabled, gvm uses --exec
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: the thing is, we should either remove the feature completely or make it work
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: but not leave it broken, as now
[07:15] <Kamion> mdz: that patch looks to me as if we should actually just sync
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: but since some people insist on it, and it's easy to make working, I thought I prepare a quick patch (only 3 lines)
[07:16] <pitti> mdz: upload pending your decision
[07:16] <mdz> is elmo around?
[07:17] <mdz> pitti: ok, sounds fine
[07:17] <mdz> pitti: I think it would also be fine to mount exec by default
[07:17] <mdz> it only prevents the user from doing things that they ought to be able to do if they want
[07:17] <pitti> mdz: so, leave noexec as pmount default, but always supply --exec in gvm?
[07:17] <mdz> disabling autorun doesn't mean "prevent me from running things explicitly"
[07:18] <pitti> hmm, okay
[07:18] <lamont> mdz: short answer is "no" - it's on my pending list to figure out WTH autocrap is doing there, if anything.
[07:18] <mdz> why leave noexec as default?
[07:18] <lamont> it may be insignificant, dunno
[07:18] <mdz> lamont: when you did 1.0.5-1ubuntu1, that was a configure.in change + autoconf, right?
[07:18] <Kamion> lamont: changes in configure without corresponding changes in configure.{in,ac} are usually best discarded, I'd've thought ...
[07:18] <mdz> if so, I agree with Kamion that it looks obsolete
[07:19] <pitti> mdz: may I upload pmount 0.7? it brings --exec, and also a C rewrite of pmount-hal (0.2 s vs. 2.7 s with the shell version)
[07:19] <elmo> mdz: I dunno, I can ask him if you want
[07:19] <lamont> mdz: I believe so...
[07:19] <mdz> elmo: please sync alsa-lib 1.0.8-1
[07:19] <lamont> probably is obsoletel
[07:19] <mdz> pitti: yes
[07:19] <pitti> okay, thanks
[07:20] <pitti> elmo: so can you please sync pmount? TIA
[07:20] <elmo> mdz: done
[07:22] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[07:24] <pvh> How can I follow Hoary updates?
[07:24] <pvh> By that I mean, how can I see what has changed in package updates?
[07:24] <zul> subscribe to the hoary-changes mailing list 
[07:24] <dholbach> or install apt-listchanges
[07:31] <Kamion> any thoughts on adding longrun to main?
[07:31] <Kamion> thom: ... or could Transmeta support be added to powernowd?
[07:35] <pvh> dholbach: that sounds like the best solution
[07:35] <Kamion> IME hoary-changes is much easier to follow than apt-listchanges
[07:35] <zul> dholbach, top me will you...
[07:35] <dholbach> zul: sorry for that - i should shut up and go back learning - you're right ;-)
[07:35] <zul> heh
[07:36] <Kamion> although apt-listchanges can sometimes be more complete with regard to changes made in Debian that we merged
[07:36] <Kamion> I just find it hard to follow because I have multiple machines that I update irregularly
[07:37] <pvh> Kamion: is that a roundabout way of saying that ubuntu specific patches are not always documented?
[07:37] <Kamion> pvh: no, where did you get that idea?
[07:38] <Kamion> that's false
[07:38] <pvh> oh good. i must have misunderstood you
[07:38] <pvh> these 8:30 classes are going to kill me
[07:38] <pvh> killall -9 pvh
[07:38] <pvh> i can only hope that i end up in uninterruptable sleep before then.
[07:39] <Kamion> pvh: changelog entries made by the Debian maintainer don't always make it through to hoary-changes when we merge changes from Debian, depending on exactly how the Ubuntu developer built the source package
[07:39] <Kamion> (i.e. -v flag to dpkg-buildpackage)
[07:39] <pvh> Kamion: oh, i understand
[07:39] <pvh> Kamion: apt-listchanges are more complete than hoary-changes list
[07:39] <pvh> Kamion: rather than debian changelogs are more complete than ubuntu
[07:39] <Kamion> indeed
[07:39] <pvh> wakaru
[07:42] <amu> Kamion: remasterlivecdhowto explains how to remaster i386, i'm looking for a ppc and tried mkisofs -r -T --netatalk -hfs -probe -map boot/powerpc/hfs.map -part -no-desktop -hfs-bless cdrom/install -hfs-volid MyPPC -o my_hoary_ppc.iso cdrom     
[07:43] <Kamion> you will need to get hfs.map from somewhere
[07:43] <Kamion> I'll try to get it into the CD image itself at some point, which will help
[07:43] <stackpopper> Hey people.  I just downloaded the latest live CD for ppc to see if support had improved for imac G5 ppc.  However, the same problem has occured: the kernel freezes after spewing information about some apple firmware driver.
[07:44] <amu> Kamion: hmm, from somewhere?  
[07:44] <Kamion> amu: should be in debian-cd CVS
[07:45] <zul> stackpopper: can you open a bug in bugzilla about it if it is not already open about it
[07:45] <stackpopper> zul, sure i'll get get a pen and paper ready and upload report later on.
[07:45] <amu> Kamion: all right, thanks
[07:45] <zul> stackpopper: thanks
[07:46] <Kamion> amu: that's obviously not suitable for a howto, though, which is why I said I'll put it on the CD
[07:46] <pvh> Kamion: Did I remember to tell you how I got the installer running from an empty partition?
[07:47] <Kamion> pvh: yeah, but you did so by IRC which is really transient - if you want me to remember something it might be better to e-mail it to me
[07:47] <Kamion> pvh: cjwatson@ubuntu.com
[07:47] <amu> Kamion: i guess so :) i'll wait for a while. 
[07:47] <Kamion> pvh: (and thanks)
[07:47] <pvh> Kamion: I'll write something suitable for the install documentation.
[07:47] <pvh> Kamion: But it was a fairly ugly and involved process.
[07:47] <Kamion> pvh: is there not something in there already, incidentally? I'm surprised ...
[07:48] <pvh> Kamion: not that i could find, but I found a place it would fit.
[07:48] <Kamion> archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/ or wherever exactly it is
[07:48] <pvh> Kamion: Yes, that was what I was looking at.
[07:48] <Kamion> ok
[07:48] <Kamion> I can get it checked in upstream, which would make translations happen etc.
[07:52] <bluefoxicy> why does dselect say all kinds of crap needs to be installed for ubuntu-base
[07:52] <bluefoxicy> but apt-get says ubuntu-base is fine
[07:55] <Kamion> dselect installs standard packages by default if this is the first time you've run it; perhaps that?
[07:55] <Kamion> "standard" => Priority: required, important, standard
[07:55] <bluefoxicy> hmm
[07:57] <bluefoxicy> I wonder how much would break if i did a dist-upgrade to hoary
[08:00] <lamont> fire call
[08:01] <trukulo> hi
[08:01] <mdz> elmo: will the auto-depwaiter handle the alsa-utils/alsa-lib thing?
[08:01] <mdz> or will it need a kick?
[08:02] <bluefoxicy> oh what the hell it only takes an hour to install ubuntu
[08:02] <lamont> or not.
[08:02] <elmo> mdz: yeah
[08:02] <mdz> ah, lamont has not left
[08:02] <lamont> canceled before I made it out the front door..
[08:02] <sivang> lamont: that fast? 
[08:02] <lamont> yeah - non-call
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> apt should make a difference between what you want and what you need
[08:03] <elmo> mdz: it just takes a cron.daily cycle after they've been built for the buildds to see them
[08:03] <lamont> mdz: if the Depend is versioned, then all is well... That is, it doesn't handle anything that says 'but it is not [going to be installed] '
[08:03] <mdz> so I should check back at :36 or so?
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> I should be able to browse some list and see abiword selected and remove it, and it should remove everything that installing AbiWord caused that I didn't explicitly want and that I no longer need
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> it'd be a short list though :P
[08:04] <mdz> bluefoxicy: use aptitude
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  hmm :)
[08:04] <mdz> it's done that for years
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> i'll check it out after the hoary dist-upgrade happens
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  after i upgrade to hoary should I chase it with apt-get upgrade or apt
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> or apt-get dist-upgrade?
[08:05] <mdz> chase?
[08:05] <trukulo> bluefoxicy, always aptitude
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> yeah I like to update/upgrade every 5 hours or so
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> or like, every few days
[08:05] <mdz> apt-get upgrade only upgrades installed packages
[08:05] <trukulo> bluefoxicy, or use deborphan
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> hmm
[08:05] <mdz> apt-get dist-upgrade will install new packages and remove installed packages in order to try to "do the right thing"
[08:06] <mdz> but at any rate, it sounds like you want aptitude {upgrade,dist-upgrade} anyway
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> i'll check those out
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> also, {,dist-}upgrade is a shorter shell glob :)
[08:07] <bluefoxicy> w00t I'm downloading at a constant 495kB/s
[08:24] <bluefoxicy> Automatically selecting en_US.UTF-8 locale in addition to en_US.
[08:24] <bluefoxicy> dpkg: warning, architecture `amd64' not in remapping table
[08:24] <bluefoxicy> remapping table?
[08:29] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: what does 'gcc -dumpmachine' print?
[08:30] <smurfix> ftp://netz.smurf.noris.de/{initrd.gz,vmlinuz} has my new keyboard selection code. Please test / try to break.
[08:30] <mdz> dpkg/amd64 has whined about that for ages
[08:31] <mdz> haven't bothered to find out what it means
[08:31] <Kamion> not seeing it here
[08:32] <Kamion> the only place where that string occurs is in the implementation of dpkg --print-architecture and dpkg --print-gnu-build-architecture
[08:32] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: what does grep amd64 /usr/share/dpkg/archtable
[08:33] <Mithrandir> return?
[08:33] <mdz> I have no local amd64 access at the moment due to that grub segfault bug, so I can't conrfirm
[08:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: just boot with a warty cd and chroot into the system, then grub-install from there
[08:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: yeah, I've just had other things to do since then
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~ $ grep amd64 /usr/share/dpkg/archtable
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> x86_64-linux-gnu                amd64           x86_64
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> bash: gcc: command not found
[08:37] <rubenv> apt-get install build-essential
[08:37] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: the dpkg error will go away if gcc is installed. However, looking at the code, it's supposed to print just the built-in architecture in the case when gcc isn't installed, so please file a bug.
[08:38] <Kamion>     /* if we have a problem excuting the C compiler, we don't
[08:38] <Kamion>      * want to fail. If there is a problem with the compiler,
[08:38] <Kamion>      * like not being installed, or CC being set incorrectly,
[08:38] <Kamion>      * then important problems will show up elsewhere, not in
[08:38] <Kamion>      * dpkg. If a C compiler is not important to the reason we
[08:38] <Kamion>      * are being called, then we should just give them the built
[08:38] <Kamion>      * in arch.
[08:38] <Kamion>      */
[08:38] <Kamion> (excuse the flood)
[08:39] <jhaltom> so i had an odd problem reinstalling hoary last night. I have 3 sata disks, and they got all reordered. What used to be sda was sdc on Hoary.
[08:40] <jhaltom> As you can imagine that didn't work out right.
[08:40] <bluefoxicy> Kamion: I'm not familiar enough with the software yet to give a competant bug report, plus I don't have an account and am generally lazy.  Also there's no failure, everything runs, it just prints a message I was curious about.
[08:40] <bluefoxicy> AHHHHH why'd it install libqthreads  o.o
[08:40] <mdz> lamont,Kamion: alsa mess is fixed, starting cloop builds
[08:40] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: well, I'll file the report when I have time, but waiting for me to have copious free time is an unreliable strategy :-)
[08:41] <bluefoxicy> :)
[08:42] <mdz> jhaltom: as compared to a previous Hoary install, or a Warty install?
[08:42] <jhaltom> As compared to a Warty install upgraded to Hoary.
[08:43] <wasabi_> I couldn't really figure out the problem exactly. It installed as sdc, grub set itself as root(0,
[08:43] <wasabi_> grub refused to load
[08:43] <mdz> wasabi: as long as the order didn't change on upgrade, that sounds fairly harmless
[08:43] <Kamion> I really must stop making mistakes that require reboots to correct; highly time-consuming
[08:43] <wasabi_> When I forced grub to load, it locked up on pivot_root.
[08:43] <wasabi_> Well, the new install didn't work
[08:43] <Kamion> wasabi_: I would just like to say I. HATE. GRUB.
[08:43] <wasabi_> =)
[08:44] <Kamion> its behaviour with respect to drive ordering is entirely opaque to me
[08:44] <wasabi_> Seems to be bios order related.
[08:44] <wasabi_> Or something.
[08:44] <tseng> jdub: ping
[08:45] <wasabi_> Anyways, a new install on my sytem did not work.
[08:45] <wasabi_> I ended up removing the drives, moving them to a different controller, then it did work.
[08:45] <Kamion> we've had at least one bug about SATA drive ordering
[08:45] <wasabi_> I'm not sure what's responsible for linux drive ordering either
[08:45] <mdz> we also have that disconcerting bug about SATA disks + ATA CD-ROMs
[08:45] <Kamion> they're excruciatingly hard to debug without access to the machine though
[08:45] <wasabi_> I was thinking udev was supposed to keep them in the same place always
[08:46] <wasabi_> based on some device id or something
[08:46] <wasabi_> am I thinking right?
[08:46] <mdz> grub happens way before udev comes into existence
[08:46] <wasabi_> I mean that's the only way I can think that Warty upgraded to Hoary continued to work.
[08:46] <Kamion> wasabi_: you probably didn't run grub-install on upgrade
[08:46] <Kamion> so device.map wouldn't have been recomputed etc.
[08:46] <wasabi_> Hmm. Since upgrading to Hoary I have reinstalled the kernel numerous times... but that doesn't reinstall grub does it?
[08:46] <Kamion> on upgrade, we just run update-grub, which only updates menu.lst, it doesn't reinstall the bootloader itself
[08:46] <wasabi_> just updates menu.lst
[08:46] <wasabi_> k
[08:47] <mdz> lamont: do I read this correctly, that it sets up the 'latest' symlink/dir before actually creating the image?  isn't that racy with respect to the CD image builds?
[08:47] <wasabi_> It would be interesting if udev's memory was put into the initrd heh
[08:47] <Kamion> CD image uses current.cloop
[08:47] <wasabi_> that way the root=/dev/blah would never have to change
[08:48] <Kamion> wget -nv "$BUILDD/~buildd/livecd/livecd-current.cloop" -O "$BDIR/CD1/casper/filesystem.cloop"
[08:48] <lamont> mdz: he grabs current
[08:48] <lamont> not latest
[08:49] <mdz> current...latest...
[08:49] <lamont> latest is the most recent (including concurrent) attempt.  current is the most recent successs
[08:49] <mdz> ok
[08:49] <lamont> I suppose I could s/latest/attempt/ or some such
[08:49] <lamont> (there is always a latest/...out, there isn't always a latest/...cloop
[08:55] <trukulo> hi carlos 
[08:55] <carlos> trukulo: hey!
[08:56] <mxpxpod> tseng: I'm working on that patch right now
[08:56] <tseng> mxpxpod: yay
[09:00] <mxpxpod> tseng: now, how do I get a diff from this?
[09:00] <tseng> diff from the entire source tree?
[09:00] <mxpxpod> tseng: yeah, so I can send it to you
[09:00] <dholbach> -ruN ?
[09:00] <tseng> ok
[09:00] <mxpxpod> wait, let me make sure this is going to work :)
[09:00] <tseng> cp it to tomboy-new
[09:00] <tseng> and diff -ruN tomboy-1.3.1 tomboy-new > icons.diff
[09:01] <tseng> where tomboy-1.3.1 is a clean unpack
[09:01] <mxpxpod> tseng: you mean 0.3.1
[09:01] <tseng> yes.
[09:03] <mxpxpod> tseng: there's going to be some auto* stuff regenerated
[09:03] <tseng> oh um
[09:03] <tseng> make distclean in the trees?
[09:03] <tseng> to clean that out first
[09:03] <mxpxpod> hold on
[09:03] <tseng> you arent patching the generated bits, right?
[09:04] <mxpxpod> tseng: I don't think so
[09:05] <lamont> Kamion: which shell?
[09:06] <lamont> and can we kill it ?
[09:07] <magnon> jdub: oh, I just noticed your X-Message-Flag :)
[09:09] <Kamion> lamont: busybox sh
[09:09] <Kamion> lamont: I kind of need it
[09:09] <Kamion> $(cat foo) works just fine ...
[09:09] <lamont> yeah
[09:11] <mxpxpod> tseng: you just want the diff and you can deal with it?
[09:12] <mxpxpod> because dpkg-buildpackage is giving me a strange error
[09:12] <tseng> mxpxpod: sure.
[09:12] <mdz> Kamion: where was that syntax being used?
[09:13] <mxpxpod> tseng: sent
[09:14] <mxpxpod> tseng: tell me if that's what you need
[09:15] <tseng> ok i can merge this by hand
[09:15] <mxpxpod> cool
[09:15] <mxpxpod> let me know when you have an updated pkg
[09:15] <tseng> not sure about having the images in a diff
[09:15] <tseng> as far as packaging it like that
[09:15] <mxpxpod> it should work
[09:16] <mxpxpod> hmm, ok
[09:16] <tseng> it should, just gross
[09:16] <tseng> trying to think of a better way
[09:17] <Kamion> mdz: kickseed
[09:17] <Kamion> mdz: I was using it 'cos Keybuk always complains when people use $(cat foo) :-)
[09:19] <zul> aigh
[09:20] <lamont> actually 2.1.5-3ubuntu1
[09:21] <zul> aigh!
[09:21] <lamont> (dropped some branding.. :-(
[09:22] <Kamion> hmm, I bet the debconf->cdebconf passthrough strategy doesn't work properly with preseeding
[09:22] <Kamion> since base-config is the thing that propagates preseed entries to debconf, and it won't have been run yet
[09:24] <lamont> Kamion: you could alwasy teach busybox-sh to understand $(< ...
[09:24] <Kamion> lamont: in my aforementioned copious free time :-)
[09:25] <Kamion> tseng: images as in binaries in a .diff.gz?
[09:25] <Kamion> tseng: you have to uuencode those (or similar), build-dep on sharutils, and uudecode them in debian/rules before you use them (remembering to clean up the uudecoded version in the clean target)
[09:26] <wasabi_> wasan't somebody working on xdelta support for .diff.gzs?
[09:27] <elmo> people have been "working on" that for years - there's still nothing usable
[09:28] <mdz> cloop builds have been running for 45 minutes, and only 1 architecture is complete
[09:28] <dholbach> have a nice evening... i'm off running
[09:30] <wasabi_> why aren't they "getting it done?"
[09:30] <wasabi_> I mean, it sounds pretty easy to me.
[09:30] <lamont> fire call
[09:31] <Kamion> wasabi_: people working on the dpkg-source format tend to get distracted into doing complete revamps, in my experience
[09:31] <wasabi_> I had the uuencode stuff. =(
[09:31] <wasabi_> s/had/hate/
[09:32] <Kamion> not that I would suggest that anyone who works on dpkg is easily distra... LOOK, A FIRE ENGINE!
[09:32] <bluefoxicy> lrwxrwxrwx   1 bluefox bluefox       4 2005-02-03 15:31 food -> fack
[09:32] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~ $ cat food
[09:32] <bluefoxicy> cat: food: No such file or directory
[09:32] <bluefoxicy> :) I'll shut up now
[09:32] <thully_> so, are those udev/X bugs still causing problems?  X doesn't work on yesterday's daily builds for me.
[09:32] <sivang> Kamion: hehe
[09:33] <Kamion> thully_: X was fixed today
[09:33] <mdz> smurfix: layout selector left me with an unusable keyboard
[09:33] <Kamion> thully_: I would advise following the hoary-changes mailing list; it's useful to keep track of what's going on
[09:33] <tseng> Kamion: hm, do you know of a package that does this? as a quick reference
[09:34] <thully_> when will a new daily build be out w/fixes included?  I want to burn an ISO for installing
[09:34] <smurfix> mdz: do the cursor keys still work?
[09:34] <mdz> smurfix: no
[09:34] <mdz> nor alt+f2, etc.
[09:34] <Kamion> tseng: yes, give me a moment
[09:34] <wasabi_> Hmm. What's this evms stuff. Should I be using it instead of LVM?
[09:34] <mdz> I can't seem to get a response with any key
[09:34] <wasabi_> must research!
[09:34] <mdz> sysrq+b worked :-)
[09:35] <sivang> Kamion: do you maintain a more current list of the desktop seed then http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/seeds/hoary/desktop ? 
[09:35] <mdz> wasabi: evms
[09:35] <Kamion> tseng: try browser-history in Debian
[09:35] <Kamion> sivang: there is no more current list
[09:35] <tseng> Kamion: will do, thanks.
[09:35] <sivang> Kamion: ok, baz fetching the complete list has the same apps in it? (I'm interested only in desktop apps, that are visually apparent)
[09:36] <Kamion> sivang: .../~cjwatson/seeds/hoary/ is simply a baz checkout
[09:36] <smurfix> mdz: Hmm. Can you trace it? The initrd has strace and nc on it for a reason  :-/
[09:36] <elmo>  It works with: Netscape Navigator, Arena, and Amaya. 
[09:36] <elmo> Kamion: wow, cutting edge, dude ;-)
[09:36] <Kamion> elmo: yeah yeah :P
[09:36] <Kamion> mozilla people suck, I have a bug open asking them to un-remove the support that makes browser-history work since like forever
[09:36] <sivang> Kamion: ok, thanks a lot.
[09:36] <mdz> smurfix: I'm starting to think it's a kernel issue, actually
[09:37] <Kamion> thully_: I suppose I can kick one off now; I hadn't planned to bother since we haven't got X fixed on ia64 yet
[09:37] <smurfix> mdz: setup networking, open a shell, strace -f -s 300 -p pid-of-mainmenu 2>&1 | nc box port & exit    then do the keyboard select thing
[09:38] <smurfix> mdz: I've had that problem when kbdselect dies, because it tells bterm to not listen to keystrokes temporarily
[09:38] <thully_> ia64 isn't used by many people though...
[09:38] <Kamion> thully_: it will be part of array 4 though
[09:38] <Kamion> the daily builds aren't intended to be used by many people either :-)
[09:39] <thully_> I'm actually surprised that Ubuntu's making a version for ia64 - considering that this platform is losing popularity and never caught on well
[09:39] <Kamion> hm, this morning's daily build didn't happen because it clashed with a live CD build; yay locking
[09:40] <smurfix> mdz: Anyway, at which point did it stop responding?
[09:40] <Kamion> thully_: we had sufficient interest to make it worth a go; we may or may not revisit that decision
[09:40] <mdz> smurfix: the first time through, I answered two questions, and it went on to the hostname prompt
[09:40] <mdz> smurfix: at which point I could not type anything
[09:41] <mdz> smurfix: a second time, I left it at the first screen of the layout selector and did not press anything
[09:41] <mdz> smurfix: and eventually it froze there as well
[09:41] <mdz> it just froze at the language chooser screen now
[09:41] <mdz> it seems to just hang after a period of time
[09:42] <smurfix> mdz: If you let the timeout time out you should end up in the normal "Select a keyboard layout" screen
[09:42] <spiral> please... No one can tell me if they think that according to the link I posted, smart battery could be supported in hoary ?
[09:42] <mdz> oh
[09:42] <mdz> I pressed alt+f2
[09:43] <mdz> and that seems to break bterm
[09:43] <mdz> that happens on the live CD, too, after a point
[09:43] <Kamion> spiral: 18:02 < thom> spiral: mjg59 was looking at smart battery support
[09:44] <smurfix> mdz: I'll try to trace that
[09:44] <mdz> probably something having a file descriptor open on the console or such
[09:46] <smurfix> mdz: no, my mistake
[09:46] <mdz> ok, so it is in fact getting the layout correct
[09:46] <mdz> I am able to type into the hostname prompt
[09:46] <smurfix> mdz: I stole SIGUSR2. I'll fix that
[09:47] <mdz> the problem is with switching consoles
[09:47] <smurfix> Yeah, I just noticed. :-/
[09:47] <mdz> so I get one keypress (q) and one yes/no question
[09:47] <mdz> (a)
[09:48] <mdz> very nice
[09:49] <mdz> lamont: ia64 cloop build has been running 40 minutes; is that normal?
[09:49] <thully_> I fixed up the gettingubuntu wiki page yesterday - it no longer links to sounders, it links to arrays instead
[09:49] <smurfix> mdz: what keyboard do you have? standard US?
[09:50] <mdz> smurfix: dvorak
[09:50] <smurfix> mdz: Ah, that explains the low number of questions ;-)
[09:51] <elmo> mdz: something you triggered?
[09:51] <mdz> elmo: yes
[09:51] <mdz> I should fix my script to do them in parallel rather than in series
[09:51] <elmo> I don't see anything in hooker's logs 
[09:52] <elmo> for hours and hours 
[09:52] <mdz> weddell
[09:52] <elmo> oh, hooker's d-i, right, meh
[09:53] <mdz> smurfix: what is the rationale for "do you have an 'a' key" rather than "press the 'a' key if you have one"?
[09:54] <smurfix> mdz: some keyboards are subsets of one another
[09:54] <mdz> hmm
[09:54] <Kamion> thully: thanks
[09:54] <mdz> I guess it would be fine if it defaulted to 'yes' rather than 'no'
[09:54] <smurfix> mdz: I ask that question if I can't find any other key to press instead that would help decide
[09:54] <mdz> most keyboards seem to have an 'a' ;-)
[09:55] <elmo> mdz: seems to have finished now, FWIW
[09:55] <smurfix> mdz: I'll have to look at the table to find out what the alternate branch is. What's the keycode of your 'q'?
[09:55] <elmo> drwxr-xr-x  2 buildd buildd 4096 Feb  3 20:55 20050203.2
[09:55] <mdz> weddell...Thu Feb 3 12:09:57 PST 2005
[09:55] <mdz> adare...Thu Feb 3 12:55:19 PST 2005
[09:56] <mdz> I thought it was much faster the last time, maybe I'm insane
[09:56] <mdz> smurfix: what is the simplest way to find out?
[09:56] <smurfix> switch to a text console, run showkey
[09:56] <mdz> 0x2d
[09:57] <elmo> it built two packages whilst it was building the livecd image, maybe that was a factor
[09:59] <mdz> I don't want to know how long powerpc is going to take
[09:59] <smurfix> mdz: Hmm, the result for no-a seems to be mac-usb-dvorak, which doesn't make much sense EXCEPT that I just looked at it, and it doesn't in fact have a mapping for 'a'
[09:59] <zul> later
[09:59] <mdz> smurfix: that sounds suspiciously like a bug in the map :-)
[09:59] <smurfix> exactly
[10:00] <elmo> well it hasn't been building anything at least
[10:00] <smurfix> mdz: What's the keycode of your a?
[10:00] <mdz> 0x1e
[10:01] <smurfix> Ah, that's actually the standard location, no wonder nobody noticed
[10:02] <smurfix> I suspect people don't usually switch from french to dvorak
[10:05] <mdz> Kamion: E: Could not open lock file /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/apt/hoary-i386/apt-state/lists/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
[10:06] <mdz> Kamion: eek, were you attempting a live build at the same time that I was?
[10:09] <mdz> smurfix: I wish I knew some more keyboard layouts to try :-)
[10:09] <smurfix> Bah, I just found a selection step that doesn't in fact display any characters. Ouch. That, and fixing bterm, will be a project for tomorrow.
[10:11] <enrico> elmo: did jdub get back to you with the list address?
[10:11] <Kamion> mdz: is that from just now?
[10:11] <Kamion> mdz: I was running an install CD build
[10:11] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, shortly before I sent that message
[10:12] <smurfix> mdz: Well, the layout generator seems to require another bugfix. Tomorrow -- I need to find my bed.
[10:12] <mdz> Kamion: by the time I had reviewed the log, there was nothing interesting running under your uid, though I saw you were logged in
[10:12] <Kamion> I need to institute locking at a higher level
[10:12] <Kamion> mdz: go ahead and build now; tell me when you're done and I'll start my build
[10:12] <mdz> Kamion: mine is finished
[10:13] <mdz> well
[10:13] <mdz> it's triggering mirrors
[10:13] <Kamion> did they actually work?
[10:13] <mdz> so I assume it's safe for you to go ahead
[10:13] <mdz> seems to have worked, yes
[10:13] <Kamion> my scripts were not designed for use by two people at high frequency
[10:13] <Kamion> ok, building
[10:14] <elmo> enrico: not that I saw sorry
[10:14] <enrico> elmo: ok. even if jdub didn't, I'd like to go on with the announcement scheduling the migration for monday.  Any major issues against that?
[10:15] <Kamion> mdz: you realise it only worked on i386, I trust
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: I only asked for i386; the other cloop builds aren't finished yet
[10:15] <elmo> enrico: no, it's fine - the mail is just a small thing, I can deactivate the mails until the list is turned on
[10:15] <mdz> and I desperately want to find out if we need another xorg upload
[10:16] <Kamion> mdz: oh, ok
[10:16] <Kamion> well, we *do* need another xorg upload, for ia64 if nothing else, and the stuff from -1ubuntu13 ought to be restored - I just band-aided it
[10:17] <Kamion> mdz: what is your deadline here?
[10:17] <mdz> I'm not particularly concerned with ia64 at the moment
[10:17] <mdz> Kamion: when, or why?
[10:17] <enrico> elmo: what do you need to create an account in the new repo?  username and e-mail address or other things?
[10:18] <Kamion> well, it sounded like you had a deadline you were working to and were wondering whether you needed another xorg upload before then
[10:18] <mdz> I just need the live CD back to a working state ASAP
[10:18] <mdz> because it's stalling development
[10:18] <Kamion> ok
[10:18] <elmo> enrico: username, and either a) email + GPG key ID for them, or b) a password encrypted with my GPG key
[10:19] <enrico> elmo: ok.  I'll tell in the annoucement that active people should mail me those data, and then I'll forward them to you
[10:20] <spiral> mjg59: hi... Sorry, just read my log... Have you got news about smart batteries support for ubuntu ?
[10:20] <Kamion> mdz: until I fix the locking issue, could you try not to initiate live CD builds on little from 8:20 UTC to about 9:20 UTC? it stalls development of the install CD when its build breaks, y'see ...
[10:20] <mdz> ok
[10:21] <Kamion> either that, or kick off an install CD build right afterwards :-)
[10:21] <mdz> I wonder how fragmented the cloop fs is getting
[10:21] <mdz> we should probably flush it sometime near release to reduce fragmentation
[10:23] <mdz> say, for the RC?
[10:24] <mdz> lamont: is that easy to arrange?
[10:27] <Tux-Rox> Hello all, I think I may have found a bug, so I thought I'd bring it up here in the Devel channel, to see if it truely is. I have a dual proc EM64T Xeon workstation with 2GB RAM running Ubuntu 4.10 32-bit. The default kernel is not smp and the only smp kernel I could find through apt is 2.6.7. With the default, I can see my second SATA drive, but with the smp kernel I can not... well sort of.
[10:28] <Tux-Rox> I can see it in fdisk and the OS says it is mounted or busy, but I can not see the contents. I tried it formatted as reiser and ext3. This seems like a kernel issue. Ideas?
[10:29] <mdz> Tux-Rox: the only supported kernel in Ubuntu 4.10 is 2.6.8.1
[10:29] <mdz> Tux-Rox: to get the SMP version, install linux-686-smp
[10:30] <mdz> your problem arose because you downgraded from 2.6.8.1 to 2.6.7
[10:30] <Tux-Rox> mdz, Oh, right. I'll give that a go. I kept searching in apt for 'kernel'. Thanks.
[10:31] <mdz> yay, working live CD on i386
[10:31] <mdz> Kamion: once the cloops finish, I'll want to do a full set; let me know when it's safe
[10:36] <Kamion> mdz: I have to go soonish I'm afraid, but it's getting there; could you watch log/daily-20050203.2.log?
[10:36] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[10:40] <thom> Kamion: um, probably
[10:41] <thom> send me you /proc/cpuinfo please?
[10:43] <Kamion> thom: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/packages/base-installer/kernel/tests/i386/oqo1.cpuinfo?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[10:49] <sivang> I think I will call it a day, night all
[11:00] <thom> Kamion: thanks
[11:13] <thully> Hi - I just tried the latest daily live CD build and X wouldn't start - has X on the latest live CD build been fixed yet?
[11:13] <thully> (otherwise I'll report this as a bug)
[11:15] <thully> aha - a new live/install cd are being uploaded - I'll try those and then report
[11:15] <crimsun> thully: many of those changes from -1ubuntu13 were reverted because they "broke the live CD in different, but equally non-productive, ways"
[11:16] <crimsun> thully: (from the changelog for -1ubuntu14. Note that Hoary currently has -1ubuntu15.)
[11:22] <thully_> I've been in touch with the developer of the TrackPoint patch, and he doesn't understand why Ubuntu removed it.  Do you think somebody could work with him and get the issues solved, so us TrackPoint users can enjoy advanced features (like push-to-click and middle button scroll)
[11:28] <crimsun> thully: according to 2.6.10-10, it's buggy and, in some cases, breaks ps/2 mice
[11:33] <dholbach> re