/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/02/17/#ubuntu-devel.txt

YokoZarhaggai: ping?12:08
sladensivang: grep name /proc/cpuinfo12:10
sivangmodel name      : Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 1.80GHz12:11
sladensivang: grep -c flags.*est /proc/cpuinfo12:12
sivang012:13
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pvhWhy is the resume= option needed for disksuspend not included in the menu.lst on laptops?12:31
mdzpvh: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=523012:32
YokoZarmdz: are you interested in signing my GPG key?12:33
sladenpvh: if mjg59's patches went in, you should be able to do it by echo'ing > /proc/...something12:37
pvhsladen: It's a bit messy at the moment, isn't it?12:38
dholbachdoes anyone have an idea, how i could debug a umount-of-a-fat32-partition-that-completely-kills-the-system?12:38
pvhsladen: Someone else was telling me to use /sys/power/state12:38
pvhsladen: And some of the documentation talks about /proc/acpi/event12:38
dholbachbye guys... i'm off to bed12:43
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Mithrandirmdz?12:44
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sladenpvh: (1) ACPI events (power-button-press).  (2) cause the system to enter the state (hibernate).  (3) onto the device selected (>/proc/power/resume)    Which bit do you feel is unneccessaryily messy?12:47
pvhsladen: Mm, no it's not messy in that sense. I don't mean to insult.12:47
pvhsladen: It's just that there are still lots of obsolete ways left in.12:48
pvhsladen: I think that a little bit of Hoary targeted documentation would resolve the situation.12:49
sladenpvh: I doubt anyone is insulted.  How do you feel it could be improved?12:49
pvhsladen: Once I've figured all the steps out, I might be able to supply a first-pass at that.12:49
pvhsladen: Unless there's already some good documentation out there that I've missed?12:50
pvhsladen: The wiki stuff is targeted to 2.4 kernels.12:51
sladenkinnison: your P4 appears to share the characteristics of sivangs;  does the -smi fallback fix^W work?12:51
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bluefoxicyanyone wanna show me a walkthrough for building an official amd64 generic here?12:59
bluefoxicyuri or whatever12:59
bluefoxicyI tried on my own but i wound up with a kernel package which didn't actually install anything in /boot12:59
bluefoxicy(using make-kpkg)01:00
lamontbluefoxicy: apt-get install linux-source-2.6.10; dpkg-buildpackage01:11
bluefoxicylamont:  nothing I have to touch around there?01:11
lamontdon't think so...01:11
bluefoxicyi.e. to put out another release or another arch or such01:11
lamontassuming the kernel you want to build is one of the flavors found in the archive, dpkg-buildpackage will build it...01:12
lamontalong with the others, mind you.01:12
bluefoxicyI'm trying to gauge if I'd be able to maintain grsecurity sources for amd6401:12
bluefoxicyI can patch the thing easy (2 misses, 1 is relavent 1 is just makefile EXTRAVERSION)01:12
bluefoxicyerr, *kernels01:12
bluefoxicypitti's got a few experimental ones up for x8601:13
bluefoxicybut none for amd6401:13
=== bluefoxicy of course has an amd64 O:)
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AndyRhi all01:15
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bluefoxicyuntil ubuntu *cough* actually picks up grsecurity (possible?  maybe, maybe not), I've got two choices: build my own directly (I can do that), or build my own packages (I can't do that).  The latter provides a better learning experience; I can build kernels by hand with my eyes closed.01:15
bluefoxicy(hopefully so can everyone else here)01:16
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jdubbluefoxicy: building kernel packages is easy, see kernel-package01:19
=== bluefoxicy google kernel-package. . . and ubuntu. . . and metallica. . .
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sivangI'm dead tired, good night freedom lovers! :)01:31
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Mitariohi everyone01:58
jdubwhen using debmirror, will the target directory end up being $ROOT/{dists,pool}02:12
jdubor have dists/pool in it02:13
jdubdirectly02:13
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jdubn/m, appears to put {dists,pool} directly02:20
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sladenwow, this looks *nice*:  http://www.ubuntu-fr.org/03:36
macewanubuntu frog?03:53
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zulcrunchy frog04:58
lamontsladen: looks very french. :-)05:02
macewanrather elegant layout. easy on the eyes & pleasant.05:04
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lamontyes.  even with my poor-to-nonexistant french, it looks nice05:12
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tsenglooks nice besides the nipples-of-doom shot06:03
wasabiheh. somebody just gave me the crazy idea of putting .torrent files in apt06:03
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=== infinity cleans up apache1.3 and is subsequently very frightened by fabbione...
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dholbachmorning07:07
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dholbachhmmm, i thought my unmount-vfat--system-crash was related to autofs and i solved it that way.... but unfortunately - it's still there - hmmmmmmmm07:27
sivangmorning all07:38
dholbachhi sivang :-)07:42
sivangdholbach: hey daniel07:43
dholbachsivan, how are you?07:45
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sabdflhi guys, what's our best answer for wifi network selection from the desktop?07:50
sabdflin hoary07:50
jdubsabdfl: install netapplet07:52
jdubsabdfl: it's not on-by-default yet07:52
sabdfljdub: is that what we plan to make on-by-default?07:52
jdubfor hoary, yeah07:53
jdubit's only just been appletised07:53
sabdflcool, thanks07:53
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dholbachbye, i'm out... running07:56
sabdflelmo: good work on the universe / multiverse sync07:59
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sivangrehi sabdfl :)08:23
sabdflhey sivang08:23
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dholbachre08:54
jdubhrm08:55
jdubhow do you get the installer stuff with debmirror?08:55
jdubaha, figured it out09:00
jdubsections should include main/debian-installer,restricted/debian-installer09:00
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jdubdaniels: around?09:50
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Treenakshm, tsclient displays a localized banner, using gtk_get_default_language() to get the locale09:58
Treenaksbut the banner contains text, and gtk_get_default_language() returns the wrong part of my locale for that (i.e. not LC_MESSAGES)09:59
TreenaksWhere's the bug? tsclient or gtk/pango?09:59
TreenaksI'd say GTK (it returns LC_CTYPE, not LC_MESSAGES)..10:04
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dholbachre10:08
dholbachwould anyone sponsor me a bluefish-1.0 upload?10:15
jdubdaniels: http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/linux/c400.html#xfree8610:17
amudholbach: url?10:18
dholbachamu:    deb-src http://ubuntu.gplan.info hoary main    (although i should change main to universe or something) :-))10:19
mdzmorning10:22
sivangmorning mdz 10:23
fabbionemorning10:30
sivangmorning fabbione, how do you feel?10:31
fabbionetrashed10:32
fabbioneyesterday they managed to drag me out of the house with a really fancy excuse... and organized a surprise bachelor party10:32
Treenakswhat was the excuse? ;)10:33
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fabbioneinstalling ubuntu sparc in a telco datacenter10:33
TreenaksLOL10:33
fabbionei couldn't resist the amount of nice hardware they put in the list10:33
Treenaksjdub: a link from that page (http://linmodems.technion.ac.il/pctel-linux/welcome.html) would likely make my winmodem work :) thanks! :)10:35
Treenaks(hm, no, 2.4 only)10:36
infinityfabbione : That's some excuse. :)10:37
dholbachfabbione: you have an idea, what could cause  umount -ing a vfat partition to kill the whole system? or how i could debug it?10:39
fabbionedholbach: #543110:39
dholbachoh ok *has a look*10:39
dholbachfunnily enough, if i did it in the console and stopped gnome-related processes, i could umount it flawlessly10:41
dholbachbut both times (according to lsof) no processes had open files on it10:41
fabbionedholbach: the "open files" are in the kernel10:43
fabbioneyou don't see them in lsof10:43
dholbachaha... ok 10:43
fabbionemdz: confirmed.. it works perfectly with growisofs :-)10:45
mdzfabbione: yes, someone should mail its author about the silly name10:46
fabbioneor we can just ln -sf growisofs irockondvds10:48
jdubis growisofs generally better than cdrecord?10:48
=== fabbione still feels a lot of alchool flowing in his blood...
fabbioneno correction..10:48
=== fabbione feels very few blood in his alchool stream
jdubaha10:50
jdubbong10:50
jdubPackage: sl-modem-daemon10:50
jdubDepends: libasound2 (>> 1.0.8), libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), debconf, sl-modem-modules-new | sl-modem-source (>> 2.9.6-1) | kernel-image-2.610:50
jdub*kernel*-image10:50
Treenaksjdub: scary10:51
sivangTreenaks: that's a link to a webserver on my former uni :) how did you come by it?10:51
=== jdub goes to fix
Treenakssivang: the page jdub pasted had a link to it :)10:51
sivangTreenaks: ah cool. *searching the backlog*10:51
jdubhrm10:54
Treenaksslmodem is scary10:54
jdubcan you use globs/regexps in Depends package *names*?10:54
jdubmdz, fabbione: ^10:55
Treenaksjdub: linux-image-2.6.[0-9] + ? ;)10:55
fabbionejdub: put down the pipe man...10:55
jdubfabbione: i know :-)10:56
jdubbut10:56
mdzjdub: BONG10:56
jdubwe don't have a metapackage that is cpu independent10:56
jdubso i'm stuck depending on linux-image-386 and -686 and -k7 and -386-smp and -686-smp and -k7-smp and any future ones :)10:57
fabbionehmm10:57
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fabbionePackage: linux-image-2.6.10-3-38610:57
fabbioneProvides: linux-image, linux-image-2.610:58
fabbionethat's all you need10:58
fabbioneand it's there already10:58
jduboch10:58
jdubgood point10:58
jdubthank you fabio10:58
jdubit is not even late :)10:58
fabbioneso you can just Depends: linux-image-2.6 | linux-image-whatever-real-package10:58
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jdubdo i have to | it with a real package?10:59
fabbioneyes10:59
fabbioneor the other way around10:59
fabbionecheck with lintian10:59
infinityThe other way around.11:07
infinityThough, it's pretty sick to be depeding on a kernel image at all.11:07
infinityjdub : Why is that necessary?11:08
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jdubinfinity: alsa driver in 2.6 instead of driver module provided11:13
infinityYeah, I read the package description.  I'm still not convinced it's necessary. :)11:14
infinityEspecially since "linux-image-2.6" could have anything builtin, including no sound support.11:14
infinityARGH.11:26
infinityHow does one stop CVS from doing keyword expansion?11:26
infinityIt just destroyed a massive patch.11:26
Treenaksinfinity: I think it was something with -k and cvs admin11:29
Treenaks1 mom11:29
Treenaks+11:30
Treenaksinfinity: https://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs-1.11.19/cvs_12.html#SEC9711:32
Treenakshttps://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs-1.11.19/cvs_12.html#SEC100 even11:32
infinityThanks.11:38
infinityOh, thank god it's recoverable.  I didn't want to redo that patch..11:42
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dholbachhi seb12811:51
seb128morning11:51
sivangseb128: morning11:51
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dholbachjdub, seb128: gtkmm2.4-2.5.5 just hit debian experimental :-D11:57
seb128yeah, I know11:59
seb128jdub: what's going on with beagle ?12:06
jdubgot a prelim package without any depends :)12:06
jdubhaven't spent much time on it since last weekend12:07
seb128k12:07
seb128jdub: and about *mm, is that ok to sync 2.5.n ?12:08
mvo_jdub: when is feature freeze? at monday or after monday :) ?12:09
jdubhow much stuff will that break in universe? :)12:09
jdubmvo_: wednesday12:09
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mvo_jdub: ah, misread the schedule. thanks12:11
jdubyes, current format makes that confusing12:11
seb128jdub: gtkmm is in main, but since that's a GNOME stuff, for the freeze ... the breaking part is probably not an issue, the is not a ton of rdepends and dholbach has runned a part of them and that's fine12:11
jdubseb128: ok12:11
jdubseb128: (i am being abruti about C++ :-)12:12
seb128jdub: should I mail matt/you about this ?12:12
seb128ah ah12:12
jdubnah, go ahead12:12
seb128k, thanks12:13
dholbachjdub: what does abruti mean? :-)12:13
jdubdholbach: it's french for meathead.12:14
jdubkind of12:14
jdubseb was being very mean to me one day ;)12:14
dholbachabruti... sounds... erm ... nice :-)12:15
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jduboh man12:18
jdubhrm12:19
amujdub: any new from Luis? he wanted to gimme some docs/artwork about gnome, looks like he's lost in bermuda ;) 12:24
amus/new/news12:25
jdubi'll nudge him12:25
jdubinteresting12:26
jdubanything playing through alsa plays fast12:26
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LarryThi people :)12:27
jdubunless it's playing through dmix12:27
jdubthen it plays at normal speed12:27
Kamionjdub: depending on kernel images at all has always generally been considered BONG, except for kernel modules specifically compiled against a particular module ABI12:27
jdubKamion: yeah? hmm.12:27
jdubKamion: should i just take out all the kernel related depends?12:27
jdubseems like a very bong package12:27
KamionI would, but I haven't looked at the package :-)12:28
jdubthat said, everything but the driver seems to be Free12:28
jduba no advertising clause is not considered non-free is it?12:28
amuhmm daily-live has still keyboard problems, no @ and | if i choose german locale, xorg say "UNKOWN"      12:28
LarryTsomeone could tell me if gparted will be on ubuntu , pleae ? :)12:28
KamionLarryT: nobody's been working on it in Ubuntu. However, since Debian recently did a big parted upgrade, it might come into Debian soon; if so, there would be a case for us syncing it into universe.12:29
LarryTmay be i am not on the right channel ? ...12:29
amujdub: thx12:30
dholbachLarryT: i'm working on it12:32
LarryTthere you're back :)12:32
Kamionah, I wasn't aware dholbach had been doing stuff12:32
dholbachLarryT: but i want people to test it a bit, before it gets included and people jump down my throat because their partition was eaten :-)12:32
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amuKamion: tried remaster the ppc, as you suggested with a hfs.map from CVS, CD still does not boot :(      12:38
KamionI'll have to try the instructions out myself later12:38
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amuKamion: thx12:40
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dholbachbut LarryT was right... gparted on the liveCD would be *NICE*12:48
dholbachso i probably should start a big call on package testing :-)12:50
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lifelesscan we get fuse in the official kernels ?01:12
lifelessor at least a built module ?01:12
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sladenhostap would be groovy too;  then I could have wifi back on this laptop01:16
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sivangI'm back01:46
jdubahr! all my sound is playing fast01:49
=== Mithrandir kicks python
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=== Mithrandir kicks python some more
Mithrandirdoes python -c  'import locale; locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ""); print locale.getlocale()' do anything useful for any of you?02:05
Mithrandir(generating a backtrace is not considered useful.)02:05
sivang('en_US', 'utf')02:08
Mithrandirbah, stupid python.02:08
sivangthis is my default one, should I list me all the ones I have?02:08
Mithrandirno, no need.02:08
mvo_Mithrandir: 'C'02:08
MithrandirI found out what the problem is, and it's that python is dog stupid, having a hard-coded list of locales.02:09
sivangbah02:13
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danielsjdub: solved problem; the video RAM hack has been in for ages so it will give you however much you ask for, and we have DRM too02:47
jdubdaniels: didn't seem to work on avdd's02:48
jdubdaniels: btw, i noticed that neither my laptop nor his loaded the appropriate drm kernel module02:48
jdubmine has never loaded it, it seems02:49
danielsi915?02:51
danielsshould get loaded when needed02:51
danielshoary-only, btw02:52
jdubhis is an i830, mine's an i85502:52
jdubthe Device>VideoRam setting didn't work02:52
danielsbongtasmic02:52
danielsusing hoary?02:52
jdubbut he got this awesome letterbox video mode02:53
jdubyeah02:53
danielshmmmmm02:53
jdubhe'll be over on wednesday, and possibly here earlier02:54
danielshaven't heard any other reports of that02:54
danielsand, I mean, I have an i855 ;)02:54
jdubdoes yours always load the i830 module?02:54
amu*hpf* shit, uploaded a source-packaged to debian 02:54
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mjg59jdub: For 855, the  correct module is i91502:54
jdub(does it always unload it when X quits?)02:54
mjg59With Xorg02:54
mjg59For 830 as well, come to think of it02:55
jduboh02:55
jdubright, xorg change02:55
jdubi see02:55
danielsjdub: mine always uses i91502:55
danielsjdub: and nah, it won't unload it02:55
danielsonly load02:55
jdubok, he must have i915 going02:56
amuelmo: ping02:57
bob2daniels: did you see the vberestore thread on lkml?03:02
ajelmo/lamont/anyone: ping? :)03:04
danielsbob2: nope03:06
danielsdon't read lkml03:06
bob2ah03:06
amudaniels: i've still trouble with the liveCD, german keyboard, no @ and | is possible   03:06
danielsamu: sounds like you have pc104 instead of pc10403:07
danielser, instead of pc10503:07
danielsbob2: when was it?03:07
amuxorg.config say 10503:07
danielsamu: really?03:07
amuyep03:07
azeemsame here, pc10503:07
danielsbob2: ah, got it03:07
bob2daniels: hrm, yesterday I think03:08
bob2ah03:08
bob2dunno if it's got anything interesting, but it seemed like you might be able to fob some stuff off to the kernel now ;)03:08
mjg59bob2: Not as yet, sadly03:13
bob2dang03:14
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amudaniels: XkbLayout says "UNKNOWN" 03:27
danielsamu: ?!?03:27
danielsis the debconf priority at that stage high, or critical?03:27
danielsi suspect we need to bump the question to critical if it's unknown03:28
danielseither that, or default to us/pc105 and hope for the best :\03:28
danielsanyway, I need to sleep.  'night all.03:28
sivang night daniels 03:28
danielsamu: what language/location did you select?03:29
amudaniels: ..on a booted liveCD, i must check the debconf prio ..    03:29
amudaniels: german/german03:29
danielsamu: ok, i'll check it out tomorrow or tuesday03:30
amudaniels: ok, just let me know, if you need me to test something   03:30
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danielsthanks dude, will do03:31
amudaniels: thx2 and sleep well 03:31
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lamontaj: sup?04:17
ajlamont: irc.parisc isn't04:23
lamontaj: seems to be working for me... - see other window04:24
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sivangMithrandir: what are you using for your python hacking as in an IDE? vim/emacs/other? :)04:45
Mithrandiremacs04:45
sivangMithrandir: (I am looking for something with object insight)04:46
sivangMithrandir: cool, could you email me the python highlight parts of the config file? or is it some kind of a pluging that I have to install?04:46
sivangMithrandir: (the one that tells which methods are available when issuing the dot :-)04:47
Mithrandirno idea, I just browse the docs with firefox.04:47
infinityobject insight.  Bah.04:48
infinityThat's crazy talk.04:48
infinity(but if you find a text-mode editor that does it well, tell me what it was?)04:49
Mithrandirit's hard to do with python, since it's so dynamic.04:49
sivanginfinity: hehe04:50
sivangMithrandir: how do you enable the highlighting in emacs for python (it works quite well for me on C and Perl)04:51
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Duck_busyanyone working at the python 2.4 transition ?04:51
Mithrandirsivang: python-mode, possibly?  Also  (global-font-lock-mode t)04:52
Mithrandirin .emacs04:52
sivangMithrandir: how do I enable it? (it's a major or minor mode_04:53
sivang)04:53
infinityMithrandir : <shrug>... If visual studio can manage object insight in their crappy text editors, I'm sure some enterprising free software developer can make a text mode editor not suck at it.04:53
sivanginfinity: we should try do something up, how hard can it be ? ;-) <hides>04:53
Mithrandirinfinity: it's a lot easier to do in, say C++ than python.04:54
infinityI don't know about "hard".. But it'd be difficult to do it efficiently.04:54
infinityVisual Studio cheats by making you tell it ahead of time what you may or may not be linking to.04:55
infinityThe "right" way would be to parse the source and determine what's being loaded, what it does, and how it's being used.  Which sounds.  Painfully inefficient.04:55
sivanginfinity: right04:56
sivang:-/04:56
infinityMaybe I should extend ae to be the ultimate python editor. :)04:56
sivanginfinity: ae?04:56
=== sivang apt-cache searches
infinitysivang : My tiny editor of choice, cause I'm weird.04:57
infinitysivang : It was removed before woody.  Remind me to upload it before Sarge (and get it in Hoary universe.. Hrm.. I have how many days?)04:57
sivanginfinity: till wedensday04:57
sivangah, my crappie spelling...04:57
infinityAnyhow.  It's tiny.  It's featureless.  It's be a great base for adding worthless features like this, cause I wouldn't be stuck trying to slot it into the already-determined frameworks of vim and emacs.04:57
sivanginfinity: right, what is it written in?04:58
infinityC.04:58
sivanginfinity: superb :)04:58
Mithrandirinfinity: you are _sick_04:58
sivangMithrandir: LOLs04:58
sivanghow it seems to me that all of the nice features an object has in python, would make it ideal to write such an editor in python , no? (let's not talk about the efficiency for the moment)04:59
Mithrandirsivang: have you ever used the monstrosity that is ae?04:59
sivangMithrandir: I don't think so, does it follow vim/pico/nano/emacs bindings?05:00
Mithrandirwell, you'd need to know the type of an object to introspect it.05:00
Mithrandiractually, you need the object itself.05:00
sivangMithrandir: eh right..which mean instantiating it?05:00
Mithrandiryou can't just do that.  Imagine a method foo(self, bar); how are you going to introspect on bar?05:01
sivanghrm right....:-/05:01
Mithrandireven introspecting on self can be hard enough, since something might have added properties to self which you use.05:02
Mithrandirnot a good coding style, I agree, but very much possible.05:02
infinityMithrandir : Oh, it's not that bad. :)05:02
infinitysivang : Keybindings are completely configurable, though it ships with some defaults people might be comfy with.  Does modal and modeless, etc.05:03
infinityMithrandir : Doing it in a foolproof manner might be tough, but getting it "close enough" mightn't be too hard.05:03
sivanginfinity: maybe to mere ease off the reference searching task...05:04
Mithrandirinfinity: how would you introspect at bar above, then?  Analyze the call graph?05:05
infinityI could always embed python and use it to figure itself out...05:06
sivanginfinity: is there a way to embed python in a python script?05:07
infinityMaybe.  I certainly hope not.05:08
infinityI suppose you could write a python python library that linked to libpython, but.  Uhm.  Why?05:08
sivangyes, that sounds, a bit how to say? strange?05:08
Mithrandirlamont: cyrus-sasl seems to be missing on amd6405:11
Mithrandirsivang: in general, for my emacs stuff just look at http://err.no/dotfiles/emacs05:15
sivangMithrandir: thanks, this is a domain of yours?05:16
Mithrandiryes05:16
sivangwow :)05:16
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lupus_seb128, can you update libdbus-cil for the new mono05:24
seb128why me ?05:24
seb128ask to one of the guys who work on it rather05:25
tsenglupus_: whats wrong with it05:25
seb128ie tseng :)05:25
lupus_dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/mono-assemblies-base_1.0.5-2_all.deb (--unpack):05:25
lupus_ trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/mono', which is also in package libdbus-cil05:25
lupus_Errors were encountered while processing:05:25
tsengoh like that you mean05:25
seb128oh, there is a bug in bugzilla about it05:25
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tsenghas nothing to do with the "new mono" really.05:25
lupus_true05:26
lupus_let's say the new mono package :)05:26
tsengfor now you can dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/mono-assemblies-base_1.0.5-2_all.deb05:26
lupus_lets 05:26
tsengand CC yourself on the bug.05:26
lupus_k05:27
lupus_thx05:27
seb128tseng: do you know if somebody has planned to update f-spot ?05:28
tsengi do not05:28
seb128k05:28
tsenghavent met the maintainer yet, and i cant get on the pkg-mono list05:29
tsengas of yesterday05:29
seb128k05:29
seb128I'll ping the maintainer on the debian side first :)05:29
tsengalright.05:30
sivangseb128: do you know if there was any decisoin about removing the change UID field in users-admin "advanced" tab? There's a major bug report about this.05:30
tsengyay, got on the list now05:30
seb128sivang: I know, the bug is assigned to me :p05:30
tsengsomeone fixed mailman05:30
seb128sivang: I think we should just mask it from the UI05:31
sivangseb128: ok, that would be a very trivial patch to do, using glad etc, would you like me to do it and make a new pkg for you to review?05:31
sivangseb128: (i.e. a change only to the interface file)05:31
seb128yeah, that's probably a few lines changes05:33
seb128if you want to do it you're welcome05:33
sivangseb128: ok05:35
sivangseb128: tnx :)05:35
seb128thank you05:36
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T-BoneKamion: ?06:24
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KamionT-Bone: ?06:53
Kamion(here for about five minutes)06:53
T-BoneKamion: did you change something to d-i lately?06:56
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T-Boneyesterday's iso doesn't detect my CDrom drive anymore on ia6406:56
KamionT-Bone: all my changes are mailed to hoary-changes, to which I'd expect developers to be subscribed to find out what's going on :)06:57
KamionT-Bone: nothing springs to mind06:57
T-Bonei'm not subscribed to hoary-changes06:59
T-Bonei wonder what's going on. kernel modules seem properly loaded06:59
Kamionstep through cdrom-detect's postinst I guess07:02
T-BoneKamion: it's worth than that07:03
T-Boneoff hand it looks like the kernel is fucked up07:03
T-Boneall ide modules are loaded, but it doesn't see anything on the ide bus07:03
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T-Boneok the kernel is fucked up07:16
T-Bone/proc/interrupts is mostly empty. The only thing working in USB!07:16
Kamionhmph, when my fiancee logs out of GNOME, a bunch of processes keep running, so she can't log in properly the second time round07:16
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Kamionreproducible with a freshly created test user07:19
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sivangKamion: last upgrade?07:20
Kamionsivang: since a while, I think07:20
ZorroBytesHi, what's the status of Java for ubuntu - does the license for java prevent it being bundled as an install? It comes with Suse 9.2 Pro default isntall07:20
sivangKamion: I'm upgrading to see if it happens here07:21
Kamionmost of them go away if I add the user to the audio group; with a user that I just created with 'adduser', the panel keeps running07:21
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sivangKamion: adduser doesn't apply all the needed groups I think, try to create a user in users-admin? 07:23
KamionZorroBytes: AIUI, main problem is that if we ship Sun Java, we can't ship any other Java07:23
Kamionsivang: oh I realise that pointy-clicky tools will add more groups and I've done that now by hand; however things should not break if users aren't in the groups they want07:24
ZorroBytesKamion, good point, but in reality (I'm a java developer) it's the sun one that I install first off. Then if I want another version, say IBM's, I go get that myself.07:24
KamionZorroBytes: sadly, legal issues are even more real. :-)07:24
ZorroBytesbut for the normal joe user out there, having sun installed as default wouldn't be too much of a problem?07:24
KamionZorroBytes: there's lots of stuff on the wiki though and jbailey is working on it07:24
ZorroBytesurl?07:24
Kamionsearch for "Java"07:24
ZorroBytesta.07:24
Kamionwww.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/07:24
Kamionno, we're not going to install Sun Java by default, sorry07:25
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ZorroBytesGot the page.07:25
Kamionthere are a couple, there's JavaIntegration07:25
ZorroBytesthat's the one I'm looking at at the moment :)07:25
Kamionanyway it's a long time since I used Java at all, so I'll bow out of the conversation now07:26
ZorroBytesta for the info :)07:27
Josephuswas there any change in gdm lately? I rebooted, and now gdm could not write my x auth file07:30
TreenaksJosephus: did you run some X program as root?07:31
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Josephuspossible yes07:31
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TreenaksJosephus: that could be the problem then.. and don't run X programs as root :)07:34
Josephusok i won't, but how can i get my X back? :)07:36
Treenaksremove .Xauthority from your ~, and this is really a #ubuntu question07:36
JosephusTreenaks: i thought it was because of some update07:37
JosephusBut default cursor change was because today's update, as it was mentioned on ubuntu-devel list07:38
sivangKamion: right07:38
sivangKamion: well, upgraded I'll check around if it happens here07:38
mxpxpodJosephus: are they going to change back to the old default cursor?07:55
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sivangKamion: hrm, I can confirm that :-/07:56
sivangKamion: only I couldn't even logout, but didn't any problem logging in07:57
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pittiGood evening everybody09:07
sivanggodd evening pitti :)09:10
sivangs/godd/good/09:10
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=== smurfix sighs
sivangwhy smurfix ?09:27
smurfixI can IRC from here. But for some reason, ssh is totally impossible.09:27
sivangwhere are you at?09:28
sivang(if I may ask)09:28
mdzpitti: good evening09:29
pittiHi mdz09:29
mdzpitti: do you have a reproducible test case for the udev bug?09:29
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smurfixTegernsee. Alps. The phone works, normally, but packet data doesn't like me here.09:30
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pittimdz: no, I cannot reproduce it at all on my machines09:30
pittimdz: I tried to debug it on smurfix' machine, but did not come very far09:31
smurfixpitti: feel free to try again there, if necessary.09:31
smurfixI can also try to track it down -- next week, when I'm back home09:32
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mdzpitti: I can reproduce it here09:48
mdzpitti: by uninstalling/installing hal09:48
mdzpitti: do you know the cause of hal.hotplug[18165] : SEQNUM is not set09:49
mdz ?09:49
pittimdz: I tried that several times (un/reinstall, down- and upgrades)09:49
pittimdz: I don't know the cause09:50
pittimdz: something seems to induce hotplug events without sequence numbers (which should normally be there)09:51
pittibut I have no idea what generates them09:51
mdzpitti: it is the hal postinst09:51
mdzthe do_udev function09:51
pittiaha09:52
mdzthat entire function should be replaced with a call to udevstart, I think09:52
pittibut events without a sequence number should just be executed immediately09:53
pittiso I don't see where there could be a feedback loop09:53
pittiwhy udevstart?09:53
pittican udevstart be limited to block devices?09:54
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mdzno, i don't think so09:55
mdzbut why does it need to be?09:55
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pittimdz: well, just to avoid some redundancy, I guess09:58
pittimdz: udevstart takes a considerable amount of time09:58
mdzpitti: dpkg-reconfigure hal reproduces the problem for me09:58
mdzpitti: modifying postinst to call udevstart fixes it09:58
pittimdz: does it help to replace do_udev by udevstart?09:58
pittiok09:58
pittigreat09:59
mdzit is strange that the maintainer did this09:59
mdzit is hal's own hotplug hook which fails if SEQNUM is not set09:59
mdzI do not know what causes the loop, though09:59
mdzpitti: I think that udev should have an update-udev script09:59
pittisjoerd: ^ any idea?09:59
mdzpitti: so that packages which install a udev config file can call it, to have the changes effected immediately10:00
pittisjoerd: (about do_udev without sequence number)10:00
pittimdz: hmm, good idea10:00
pittimdz: however, what should this script do apart from udevstart?10:00
pittijust wrap it, in case it changes in the future?10:00
sjoerdpitti: shouldn't be a problem.. we can't fake sequence numbers from usersspace anyway10:00
pittisjoerd: <mdz> it is hal's own hotplug hook which fails if SEQNUM is not set10:01
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pittisjoerd: maybe that is what is causing the feedback loop10:01
sjoerdhrm.. is that run on an udevsend..10:01
sjoerdoh.. does hoary have udev in hotplug mode ?10:01
pittisjoerd: I think so10:02
pittisjoerd: /etc/hotplug.d/default/10-udev.hotplug -> /sbin/udevsend10:02
sjoerdthat's the same as in debian10:02
mdzpitti: yes, I think it would only call udevstart at this time10:02
sjoerdanyway, there is no problem if the hal program fails there10:03
mdzsjoerd: Ubuntu uses /sbin/udevsend as the hotplug helper10:03
sjoerdmdz: ah, right, so your udevsend actually causes the hotplug scripts to be run10:03
sjoerdwhich isn't the case in debian...10:03
mdzcorrect10:03
mdzI don't know why this results in a loop10:03
pittihal -> udevsend -> this causes a hotplug event -> calls udevsend again?10:04
sjoerdthe symlink pitti has is strange then ? 10:04
smurfixYeah, something like that seems to happen.10:04
mdzno, the symlink is standard10:04
mdzudev has some loop detection which should prevent that10:04
sjoerdah10:04
mdzotherwise this would happen with every hotplug event10:04
pittismurfix: does replacing do_udev() with udevstart help for you, too?10:04
pittimdz: right, but maybe because it does not have a sequence number (no kernel event), the loop detection fails?10:05
smurfixpitti: No idea at the moment10:05
mdzpitti: it's possible; I don't know how the loop detection works10:05
pittimdz: it might rely on the same sequence number10:05
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sjoerdguess there is no, way to tell udev to just recheck the permissions and naming and not call the hotplug scripts..10:06
pittimdz: the only odd thing is, why I can't reproduce it10:06
mdz                /* prevent loops in the scripts we execute */10:06
mdz                if (strncmp(key, "UDEVD_EVENT=", 12) == 0) {10:06
mdz                        dbg("seems that the event source is not the kernel, just exit");10:06
mdz                        goto exit;10:06
mdz                }10:06
mdzthe strange thing is, if I run the do_udev function from a shell, it doesn't cause a problem for me10:08
pittimdz: I pinged Md in #d-devel, I will ask him for update-udev10:08
mdzbut it does when run from the postinst10:08
mdzit seems like a race10:09
pittimdz: in #d-devel10:09
mdzperhaps related to the fact that it starts many udevsend processes in the background, and then restarts dbus10:09
mdzpitti: ok10:09
mdzwhy does it run them in the background, anyway?10:10
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sjoerdno good reason that i remember10:11
mdzhmm, I can't reproduce anymore10:12
mdzafter undoing my workaround10:12
pittiHeisenbug...10:13
jdubhttp://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427110:13
jdub^ i've been pinged about this a couple of times now10:13
mdzjdub: ...10:14
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mdzjdub: it doesn't happen to me, so if you can reproduce it, you're in the best position to debug it10:16
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pittimdz: according to Md, running udevstart might have unintended side effects, so we should not do that in a postisnt10:20
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mdz<Md> currently your best option is running udevstart10:21
jdubmdz: i can't, have never used en_US10:21
mdzI certainly do10:21
mdzand if it were broken, I would have noticed and fixed it before Warty released10:21
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pittimdz: okay, I'll modify hal to use udevstart for now10:22
pittimdz: after Md finds a better solution for udevstart, we can switch over to update-udev10:23
mdzpitti: or can we disable that code altogether?10:23
pittimdz: well, it would cause hal not being able to read CD-ROMs etc.10:23
pittimdz: wrong, not CD-ROms10:24
pittimdz: but already existing USB devices10:24
mdzwhy?10:24
pittimdz: hal isntalls udev rules to change group disk to group hal for USB devices10:24
pittimdz: s/USB/removable/10:24
pittimdz: so hal does not need to run in group disk10:24
mdzcan we not do that in the udev package, instead of hal?10:24
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mdz(using a different group)10:24
pittimdz: so it can mess with removable devices, but not with hard disk ones10:24
pittimdz: in the very first packages we indeed did this in udev proper10:25
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pittimdz: but after some discussion this was moved  to hal, by installign an udev rules script10:25
mdzI think that udev is the right place10:26
mdzremovable devices should have different permissions regardless of whether hal is installed10:26
pittimdz: to get rid of do_udev(), we need to move /etc/udev/rules.d/z_hal-plugdev.rules from hal to udev10:26
pittimdz: that's easy to achieve10:26
jdub08:24 < luis> jdub: 'install hoary CDs, choose en_US as locale'10:26
jdub08:24 < luis> jdub: 'use liveCDs, choose en_US as locale'10:26
jdub08:25  * luis is booting a liveCD at this very moment, will test again10:26
mdzchanging permissions of devices based on whether a certain package is installed, seems fairly evil10:26
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mdzjdub: seriously, I do that about 20 times per week, easily10:27
pittimdz: okay, then I do that10:27
jdubmdz: i don't doubt you10:27
jdubmdz: just relaying10:27
mdzjdub: in which program is he seeing the problem exhibited?10:27
jdubgnome stuff10:27
jdubas noted in the bug10:28
pittisjoerd: do you think this can be done in Debian, too? (setting device permissions in udev instead of hal)10:28
mdzI don't know which gnome stuff has different strings for en_GB vs. en_US10:28
jdubhrm, now that i look at /etc/environment on my machine, i get:10:28
jdubLANGUAGE="en_AU:en_US:en_GB:en"10:28
jduband i totally shouldn't have en_US before en_GB ;)10:28
jdubmdz: nautilus 'wastebasket'10:28
sjoerdpitti: you should discuss that with md.. 10:29
seb128_you guys should all use fr_FR :p10:29
sjoerdpitti: but i don't think there is a generic solution and this one is basically temporary for hal 0.4.x..10:30
mdzjdub: Trash here10:31
mdzjdub: just tested with an array-4 live CD10:31
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HwolfWould it be possible to mark Openoffice.org2 as a subsitute for OO01?10:33
pittimdz: hmm, but putting removable devices into the hal group even if hal is not installed seems a bit weird, too10:34
pittimdz: we could revert the group back to plugdev10:35
pittimdz: however, that would mean that normal users can repartition/reformat removable media10:36
pittimdz: i. e. malicious software could circumvent permissions on USB hard disks10:36
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sivangseb128_: hehe10:39
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kenthmm, mono-assemblies-base is giving me problems. Can i solve it by hand, or will it be solved automatic with a future update? i cant seem to be able to remove the conflicting packages, it always wants to do apt-get -f install, but that one dont work, since its a conflict. 10:40
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seiyahi guys10:43
mdzpitti: I can't think of a realistic attack scenario10:43
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development channel | use #ubuntu for support and general discussion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals
seiyado you know anything about website contest?10:43
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pittimdz: as I said, normal users can circumvent permissions on USB hard disks10:46
pittimdz: the "users" in the sense of a human being can of course do this anyway10:46
pittimdz: (by moving it to another computer)10:47
pittimdz: but the user processes shouldn't10:47
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HwolfGuys: With my latest upgrade I lost the ubuntu-themed mouse pionters. Which package is responsible for those?10:48
mdzHwolf: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=617210:49
Hwolfmdz, ok, couldn't find it.10:49
Hwolfbtw, am I the only one who thinks a filled trash-applet looks like a clipboard?10:50
tsengyes10:51
=== Hwolf whiches he could use hoary with warty theme, atm. :-S
Hwolf-c +s10:51
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seiyajdub: are you going to show us projects submitted to ubuntu website contest?11:04
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bluefoxicyupdate-notifier has been insisting that there are 7 updates available for the past 7 hours now11:16
bluefoxicyafter installing them11:16
geppyThe gstreamer-jack package is broken.  Is there anything that I can do to fix it?11:16
tsenggeppy: how about gstreamer0.8-jack ?11:17
tsenggstreamer-* is 0.6, pretty old11:17
geppytseng:  I have 0.8-jack11:17
tsengis that which is broken?11:18
geppytseng:  In my experience, they've both been broken.11:18
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mdzbluefoxicy: thanks for testing it; feel free to add your comments to the bugs already open about such issues11:19
truluxhi11:19
jdubgeppy: probably worth talking to gstreamer upstream about it, more work has been done on the jack plugin since last release11:23
geppyjdub: Alright, thanks.11:23
bluefoxicymdz:  right now I'm more interested in #5779, which now has a patch to correct the problem.  The patch didn't pop up till about 2 days ago so *shrug* it hasn't reached the maintainers.  No big deal, I'm too busy playing dragon warrior to care :)11:25
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bluefoxicymdz:  the update notifier bug seems to be #6071, so it's known.  *nod*11:26
seiya_jdub: hi11:27
=== bluefoxicy gets tired of waiting for things to load when there's images around, i.e. bugtraq.
=== bluefoxicy hijacks HTTP and sends it to squid
truluxmdz: I've just came back and read the message on features freeze11:30
truluxmdz: is there anything I could do for getting some new SELinux stuff on Hoary before it gets freezed?11:30
truluxat least bringing updates to the packages11:30
robertjhey mdz, I've been making an effort to get my act together and actually learn enough to provide a patch to create an admin group for sudoers and have made some progress but am having difficulty testing my changes11:30
robertjmdz: sudoers is fine but the passwd package does its action during config and it's already configured...11:31
robertjrunning sh passwd.config throws up errors about templates and the like so I assume it's not something your supposed to do11:31
bluefoxicyo.o11:32
bluefoxicywhat group does Squid run as11:32
bluefoxicyI need it running in its own group11:32
bluefoxicyahh, cache_effective_group11:33
=== sivang is going to get some sleep
sivangNight everybody11:36
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robertjshould I take this one to d-d?11:37
robertjare they still pretty hospitable ;)11:37
Duck_busysjoerd: coin ?11:38
sjoerdDuck_busy: pong11:39
Duck_busysjoerd: :-)11:39
Duck_busysjoerd: i want to talk about the python transition in hoary11:39
=== sjoerd has no clue about that
Duck_busypeople r complaining the depends r wrong11:40
Duck_busybecause debian pkg depends on python 2.3 and ubuntu now uses 2.411:40
Duck_busydo you plan some mass rebuilding ?11:40
sjoerdDuck_busy: you need to ask the ubuntu people about this, not me11:41
Duck_busyho, i though you were one of them11:41
mdztrulux: is there a list of what needs to be done?11:41
jdubseiya_: yes, there will be a poll soon11:42
mdztrulux: if you make a list in the wiki, we can discuss it, but it is very close to the freeze11:42
sjoerdDuck_busy: nope ;)11:42
mdzrobertj: ubuntu-devel@lists is the place to discuss it11:42
Duck_busysjoerd: who could i ask ?11:42
robertjmdz; thanks11:42
Duck_busythere's not ubuntu tag on people11:43
Duck_busy-t11:43
seiya_jdub:oh, pool - ok, thx for answer11:44
sjoerdDuck_busy: this channel seems like a nice target....11:44
jdubseiya_: pool! :)11:45
=== jdub is in sweltering heat atm, so pool *is* cool :-)
seiya_jdub: and soon means few days?11:45
jdubseiya_: oh, most likely less11:45
seiya_jdub: he he right poll :)11:46
truluxmdz: sure, I have a wiki page in hardened debian wiki, lemme dig for the link11:46
crimsunDuck_busy: most of those packages need at least a bump in debian/control:Build-Depends. I believe mdz talked about this issue a couple weeks ago, though I don't have a log of it.11:47
Duck_busycrimsun: yes, depends must be changed and build-depends too, is there a way to be sponsored as a debian maintainer, so as to have my pkg fixed quicker ?11:49
mdzDuck_busy: yes, these packages will be fixed in due course11:50
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crimsunfor my part, I've been sending diffs to MOTU for the python packages I've run across11:50
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mdzcrimsun: that's great; if a few more people would do a few packages each, it would be done very quickly11:52
Duck_busymdz: can i come back here with fixed pkg to upload ? (understand ubuntu people r complaining to me and not you, as they see my name as the maintainer)11:52
jduboh man11:52
jdublocal lug list11:52
jdubbunch of people being banged up the sh*tter by consolehelper11:52
jdubmost are completely confused11:53
jdub(multiple users logging in, exclusive permissions, etc)11:53
jdubone blames it entirely on gnome11:53
mdzDuck_busy: yes, definitely11:53
jdubeeeek11:53
Duck_busymdz: thanks11:53
Duck_busycrimsun: thanks too11:53
mdzDuck_busy: or you can mail ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com if no one is here to upload11:53
crimsunDuck_busy: np11:54
Duck_busymdz: roger11:54
mdzjdub: what is consolehelper?12:01

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