[12:04] <mdz> yes, thanks for the patch
[12:04] <mdz> things are a bit crazy just before feature freeze
[12:04] <robertj> yeah, understood
[12:04] <jdub> mdz: this accessd thing, is it sane?
[12:04] <mdz> jdub: is that the thing that we talked about in Spain?
[12:04] <mdz> I think so
[12:05] <mdz> it sounded vaguely reasonable
[12:05] <jdub> i would like to not run things like update-manager and synaptic as roon
[12:05] <jdub> t
[12:05] <jdub> but have them run little subprocesses to perform the operation
[12:05] <mdz> things like update-manager and synaptic are going to be a lot of work to privilege-separate
[12:05] <jdub> (same as g-s-t stuff)
[12:05] <jdub> (though g-s-t will be easier)
[12:06] <jdub> if synaptic is done, update-manager will just inherit that though, right?
[12:23] <mdz> haggai: ping?
[12:29] <pitti> night everybody
[12:29] <dholbach> sleep tight, pitti
[12:35] <dholbach> i better had not tried, if wesnoth-0.8.10 compiled ... now i'm left with it on my hard disk :-)
[12:36] <mdz> jdub: can you weigh in on #6092?
[12:43] <jdub> mdz: *shiver*
[12:45] <mdz> jdub: there is so no reason to mess with that in the desktop
[12:48] <netdur> hey, open Synaptic -> settings -> repositories -> try close the dialog by clicking the [x]  (and not cancel button), watch the bug!
[12:48] <tseng> netdur: bugs typically go to bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:49] <netdur> need to register right?
[12:49] <tseng> yes.
[12:49] <tseng> also, i dont see a bug
[12:50] <jdub> BUT PERKY!!! THAT IS THE BUG!!
[12:51] <netdur> you mean get normal window and not false-sensitive window?
[12:52] <sivang> jdub: I see you joined mdz oppinion, well, I'll mask it out of the gui tommorow then? (change the interface file and the reference for that field in the code)
[12:53] <sivang> jdub: (talking about 6092)
[12:59] <dholbach> re
[01:23] <luis_> jdub: do you understand your panel packaging at all?
[01:24] <luis_> (or anyone else, I guess ;)
[01:24] <lexhider> #ubuntu
[01:25] <luis_> because it looks like in my hacked up livecd, the value is getting overridden
[01:25] <jdub> luis_: yes, it is
[01:25] <jdub> luis_: the schema is installed when the package is configured
[01:25] <jdub> luis_: it is a hacky way to get a default panel layout appropriate for laptops or desktops
[01:26] <jdub> luis_: have a look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-panel-data.postinst
[01:28] <luis_> jdub: so the package is getting reconfigured at install time, even on the liveCD?
[01:28] <jdub> luis_: it's being reconfigured by casper during boot
[01:28] <luis_> ah, cool
[01:28] <luis_> thanks for the pointer
[01:28] <jdub> luis_: we do that so the livecd has the same smarts
[01:29] <luis_> yeah
[01:29] <luis_> makes sense
[01:29] <luis_> just surprising
[01:29] <jdub> yeah ;)
[01:31] <luis_> would something similar be rewriting my /usr/share/applications/defaults.list at boot time?
[01:33] <jdub> hmm, dunno about defaults.list, but it sounds plausible
[01:34] <luis_> I think maybe there is something funky going on there with links and mounts and loopback stuff
[01:35] <mjg59> BLUETOOTH IS MAKING ME CRY
[01:35] <jdub> ladies and gentlemen
[01:35] <jdub> would you please put your hands together
[01:36] <dholbach> mjg59: what are you doing?
[01:36] <jdub> for mister matthew "www.angrydpl.com" garrett
[01:36] <mjg59> dholbach: I have a PDA that runs Linux. I have a headless Linux box with a bluetooth dongle.
[01:36] <jdub> (especially anyone who loves their working acpi love in hoary)
[01:36] <mjg59> I want to get the PDA to do networking via the headless box.
[01:37] <mjg59> Which I think means I need to pair the two devices.
[01:37] <dilinger> mjg59: i found bugging edd dumbill to be a decent way to deal w/ bluetooth problems.  especially where "problems" are a lack of documentation
[01:37] <mjg59> Haha
[01:37] <helix> maybe mjg59 will revolutionize bluetooth on linux as a result of his frustration
[01:37] <mjg59> Everything I can find on pairing seems to assume that I'm running X
[01:37] <mjg59> WHERE THE FUCK'S MY FUCKING TRAIN?
[01:39] <dholbach> mjg59: erm the bluez-utils and bluez-hcidump are not assuming you're running X, are they?
[01:40] <mjg59> dholbach: bluez-pin is linked against X libraries
[01:40] <infinity> dilinger : Your new and improved patch is now in incoming.
[01:40] <dholbach> mjg59: oh sorry... i didnt know :-/
[01:41] <dilinger> infinity: i should be afraid, eh?
[01:42] <infinity> Yeah, I've been cross-closing all day.
[01:42] <infinity> php4 bugs with apache, apache bugs with php4.
[01:42] <dholbach> i don't know if this should make me either laugh or cry: "Any leftovers will be placed at the Bookmakers on whether     Longhorn or Sarge release first."
[01:43] <mjg59> Ah. If I turn off authentication and encryption, they can at least ping each other
[01:43] <dilinger> yea, i had to turn of encryption for hidd
[01:43] <dilinger> s/of/off/
[01:44] <mjg59> Less than ideal, but better than nothing...
[01:46] <mjg59> Rock
[01:52] <dholbach> i'm off to bed
[01:52] <dholbach> good night
[01:54] <magnon> there we go. server on ubuntu
[02:09] <luis_> jdub: ah-ha
[02:10] <luis_> jdub: turns out that since usr/share/applications/defaults.list is a symlink to _/_etc/gnome/defaults.list, what i was doing when i was editing the file on the livecd was actually editing my machine's defaults, and never touching the livecd.
[02:14] <mdz> wow, today is live CD bug day
[02:15] <thully> speaking of live CD bug.. I filed a pretty large one about a week ago which makes things tough when you try to use the live CD on a system w/a wi-fi card but not in range of a network - have you seen this one yet?
[02:16] <thully> Bug #5981
[02:16] <mdz> daniels: ping?
[02:17] <luis_> mdz: I'm trying to arrange one for gnome for LWE, which means I'm running out of time :0
[02:17] <luis_> :), I mean
[02:17] <luis_> fucking broken shift key
[02:17] <mdz> luis_: yeah, jdub mentioned, sounds very cool
[02:17] <luis_> yeah
[02:18] <luis_> I think the 2.10 one will be a learning experience, mostly
[02:18] <luis_> I expect the 2.12 one will rock
[02:18] <luis_> and hopefully it will get the artists heavily involved too :)
[02:19] <mjg59> Oh man
[02:19] <mjg59> Bluetooth is love
[02:19] <elmo> 00:35 < mjg59> BLUETOOTH IS MAKING ME CRY
[02:19] <elmo> 01:19 < mjg59> Bluetooth is love
[02:19] <luis_> dude
[02:19] <luis_> schizophrenia is love
[02:19] <dilinger> elmo: s/angrydpl.com/bipolardpl.com/
[02:20] <mjg59> It turned out that it was gpe that was making me cry
[02:20] <mdz> gpe does that
[02:21] <mjg59> Now gpe is making me cry again
[02:21] <mjg59> It's broken dbus
[02:28] <mjg59> Waah my dbus session bus has vanished
[02:30] <mdz> elmo: what happened to your "fist-sized blurry icons" bug?  #6268 is a duplicate of it, but I can't find it
[02:30] <mdz> I think it was you, anyway
[02:32] <elmo> mdz: I never reported it as a bug, I just whined about it on IRC and got the (err, confused) impression it was a feature 
[02:32] <mdz> ah
[02:33] <elmo> you may remember it 'cos it's on the quotes page
[02:36] <mdz> probably
[02:44] <luis_> Rock on.
[02:45] <luis_> thanks, all
[03:05] <lamont> mdz: I think shtoom-in-universe was waiting for the official debs
[03:05] <lamont> as evidenced by the 'you may need to remove it manually before installing the official deb' comment... :-)
[03:08] <mjg59> Bluetooth is worse than paedophiles
[03:09] <lamont> firecal
[03:09] <mdz> lamont: who is making the official debs?
[03:09] <lamont> thom ITP'ed it
[03:10] <dilinger> mjg59: certainly would be nice if ubuntu made dealing w/ bluetooth easier
[03:15] <mdz> dilinger: if it weren't two days before feature freeze, I would agree
[03:19] <mdz> daniels: ping?
[03:22] <mjg59> Phew. Bluetooth love once more.
[03:30] <zul> hey
[03:47] <daniels> mdz: pong
[03:48] <mdz> daniels: morning
[03:48] <mdz> daniels: you have a xorg -1ubuntu16 upload planned for pre-feature-freeze, right?
[03:53] <daniels> mdz: yeah
[03:54] <mdz> daniels: I thought you said you fixed LiveCDCustomizationHowTo?
[03:55] <mdz> do you have some notes from when you went through it?
[03:59] <daniels> mdz: i haven't fixed it, no, but I can
[03:59] <mdz> please do; people are tripping over it
[04:00] <mdz> luis_: did you use the  LiveCDCustomizationHowTo?
[04:04] <mdz> luis_: ah, you made many corrections already, thanks
[04:05] <daniels> mdz: ok
[04:06] <luis_> mdz: yeah, it is great
[04:07] <luis_> mdz: had some issues, but I polished it as much as I could
[04:07] <luis_> mdz: I'll add a gnome customization section at some point?
[04:07] <luis_> (if you guys want that)
[04:08] <mdz> luis_: what sort of gnome customization?
[04:08] <mdz> luis_: as part of the same howto, or a separate one?
[04:09] <mdz> the sources.list stuff doesn't make much sense
[04:10] <luis_> mdz: I was thinking mostly of gconf
[04:11] <luis_> the more obscure stuff (like the sources.list stuff) should probably just get linked to the gnoppix page
[04:11] <mdz> luis_: I think specific customizations should probably go in separate howtos, linked from this one
[04:12] <luis_> I was thinking gconf is non-specific enough, but judgment call for you guys
[04:13] <mdz> luis_: if you can find a way to organize it which preserves the simple, linear process, then sure, I've no problem with it
[04:13] <mdz> but that seems tricky
[04:14] <mdz> ideally it should be separated into the completely generic bits, and actual examples of customization
[04:14] <mdz> "installing custom packages (skip this section if you aren't doing that)"
[04:15] <mdz> "customizing gconf (skip this section if you aren't doing that)"
[04:15] <mdz> something like that?
[04:15] <luis_> makes sense
[04:15] <mdz> so that the less generic bits can be easily excluded and the next step is pretty obvious
[05:10] <mdz> daniels: I installed Hoary on a machine with a voodoo card yesterday
[05:14] <mdz> daniels: is it at all reasonable to expect that to work properly?
[05:14] <mdz> daniels: (it gave me 640x480)
[05:14] <daniels> mdz: utterly reasonable to expect it properly; if ddcprobe succeeds but doesn't shoot you back a sync range, it's one of the bugs fixed in ubuntu16
[05:14] <daniels> which, given it's now tuesday, might well be 6.8.2-1
[05:14] <mdz> daniels: whichever way it goes, please make sure it's in before featurefreeze
[05:14] <mdz> jamesh: do you know a better way?
[05:14] <daniels> mdz: yah
[05:14] <jamesh> mdz: I don't think it provides any added security.
[05:14] <jamesh> mdz: if I can connect to your X server, I could just as easily present a window that looked like gksu
[05:14] <daniels> mdz: things that fuck the installer up royally: having your date set to 2003; the gpg keys are all invalid because they have been created after that
[05:14] <mdz> jamesh: I consider it a safety feature more than a security feature, per se
[05:14] <mdz> jamesh: it avoids the "oops, typed my password into the (gaim|xchat|etc.) window which just grabbed focus"
[05:15] <jamesh> mdz: well, it sometimes grabs the keyboard when it isn't focused by the window manager, which is just as bad
[05:16] <jamesh> which can happen with metacity's focus stealing prevention feature
[05:16] <jamesh> eg. run gksu and then run another application that opens its window before gksu
[05:16] <daniels> mdz: is there any way to disable that specific horkage in gpg?
[05:18] <mdz> daniels: which specific horkage?
[05:18] <mdz> jamesh: that focus stealing prevention feature seems to also prevent me getting focus when I want it
[05:18] <daniels> mdz: see 'things that fuck the installer up royally'
[05:19] <jamesh> mdz: the idea is that if you start an application, then do something else before it loads, you probably don't want that application to grab focus
[05:19] <jamesh> which is correct in 99% of situations
[05:22] <mdz> daniels: oh, interesting
[05:22] <mdz> daniels: gpg --ignore-my-clock
[05:23] <mdz> jamesh: I have had a _lot_ of gaim windows, notification dialogs and such appearing behind another window
[05:23] <mdz> and so I never see ther
[05:23] <daniels> ah, --ignore-valid-from
[05:23] <mdz> them
[05:23] <mdz> anyway, have to run
[05:23] <daniels> mdz: can we get --ignore-valid-from for validation?
[05:23] <mdz> daniels: I will be in the vicinity of that voodoo box shortly; I may come back and nag you about it
[05:23] <mdz> daniels: probably, talk to Kamion when he wakes up
[05:23] <daniels> mdz: ok, thanks
[05:23] <daniels> Kamion: ping
[05:24] <jamesh> mdz: if an app is popping up a new window it should be setting _NET_WM_USER_TIME to the timestamp of the event that triggered it
[05:26] <jamesh> mdz: if gaim set that prop on its popups to the last known event timestamp when you received a message, then they should get focus.
[05:27] <jamesh> (or get the current time from the server)
[05:38] <helix> doh, missed jbailey
[05:42] <pvh> Can anyone suggest why I might not be able to call up the man page for fork()?
[05:44] <daniels> sudo apt-get install manpages-dev
[05:45] <pvh> Phew, thanks.
[05:46] <QQMelo> hi
[05:47] <QQMelo> can i ask ?
[06:16] <daniels> oh my god.  this s3 card really is horrid.  it doesn't even do ddc.
[06:38] <fabbione> morning
[06:41] <fabbione> wtf...
[06:41] <fabbione> it's impossible to rsync from archive.u.c
[07:33] <fabbione> mdz: ping
[07:34] <fabbione> daniels: you around?
[08:11] <pitti> Good morning Ladies, Gentlemen, Aliens, etc.!
[08:19] <ajmitch> hello pitti, fabbione 
[08:19] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[08:29] <fabbione> dpkg-source: building linux-source-2.6.11 using existing linux-source-2.6.11_2.6.11.orig.tar.gz
[08:29] <fabbione> let's add some extra crack
[08:29] <Treenaks> 2.6.11-final?
[08:30] <fabbione> no
[08:30] <fabbione> i said CRACK
[08:30] <Treenaks> ah ok
[08:30] <fabbione> it's a bk snapshot
[08:57] <lamont> well, that was a cluster
[08:58] <fabbione> lamont: ?
[08:59] <lamont> the last 5 hours... at least 9 accidents on the interstate
[08:59] <fabbione> ah
[08:59] <lamont> the real pisser was having _MY_ENGINE_ rear ended
[09:00] <HrdwrBoB> your engine?
[09:00] <HrdwrBoB> it was sitting on the road?
[09:00] <lamont> yep.  parked about 2/3 of the way into the outside lane of the interstate, protecting us while we dealt with a patient who had just rear-ended a lory
[09:01] <lamont> and along comes this puny little toyota and trashed itself on my bumper.
[09:01] <fabbione> fuck...
[09:01] <fabbione> that sucks
[09:01] <lamont> fire engine didn't move positions at all.  rocked around abit/.
[09:01] <lamont> fabbione: it'll need a new bumper, and we'll have a challenge or two getting a couple of things out in the meantime, but it's still in service.
[09:01] <HrdwrBoB> that's crazy
[09:01] <lamont> but I expect to get an "award" for it next year.
[09:02] <lamont> sheet of ice - very slick... been a crazy evening
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> crazy
[09:02] <lamont> starting just short of 6 hours ago
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> we had floods last week
[09:03] <lamont> oh  -  and all those accidents were in a 1 mile stretch of highway
[09:03] <lamont> parking is getting a little congested. :-)
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> heh
[09:05] <mdz> fabbione: pong
[09:06] <fabbione> mdz: i am preparing 2.6.11 (from bk snapshots), but last time we talked about it you had some comments about the orig and the patches...
[09:06] <fabbione> mdz: i just can't remember exactly about what...
[09:07] <fabbione> the idea was to have a 2.6.11.orig.tar.gz based on 2.6.10
[09:07] <fabbione> and add the rest as patches..
[09:07] <lamont> did anyone get my mail to ubuntu-devel wrt "MTA in ubuntu desktop"?
[09:07] <fabbione> lamont: not yet
[09:09] <lamont> Feb  7 19:04:42 mmjgroup postfix/smtp[24196] : A517516EAE: to=<ubuntu-devel@lists
[09:09] <lamont> .ubuntu.com>, relay=lists.ubuntu.com[209.61.182.217] , delay=1, status=sent (250
[09:09] <lamont> OK id=1CyKk6-0007O0-EN)
[09:09] <lamont> hrmpf.
[09:09] <fabbione> aren't the ml moderated?
[09:09] <lamont> could be.
[09:09] <lamont> and if I guessed the wrong email on my submission...
[09:09] <lamont> where's our moderater, eh?
[09:10] <fabbione> iirc your address has to be subscribed or approved by Jeff
[09:10] <lamont> hrm.. should be his midday... jdub???
[09:10] <mdz> fabbione: whatever works best for you
[09:10] <fabbione> mdz: ok. i am going to the 2.6.10 orig + patches
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: it is easier to track
[09:11] <fabbione> because there will one stolen-from-head or update2-2.6.XX patch on top
[09:11] <fabbione> and the other afterwards
[09:11] <mdz> lamont: moderated
[09:12] <fabbione> also because after the first orig patching, all the others will still have to live in debian/patches
[09:13] <mdz> jdub: ping
[09:13] <fabbione> lamont: mail just arrived
[09:15] <mdz> fabbione: I moderated it
[09:15] <lamont> mdz: tahnks
[09:18] <fabbione> oh nice... 
[09:18] <fabbione> only 16 patches to review for 2.6.11
[09:18] <lamont> mdz: wondering if stars belongs in multiverse, or yale belongs in universe...
[09:18] <lamont> (stars build-deps yale, but yale is multiverse)
[09:21] <mdz> lamont: weird, how did that happen?
[09:21] <Kamion> daniels: I can fix the installer's invocations of gpgv, but somebody will need to add --ignore-time-conflict to apt's invocation of gpgv
[09:21] <lamont> maybe stars is contrib?
[09:21] <mdz> Kamion: if there isn't already an apt config option to pass arbitrary parameters to gpgv, there should be
[09:21] <mdz> lamont: ah, maybe
[09:21] <daniels> Kamion: cool
[09:21] <mdz> lamont: if stars came from contrib, it should move into multiverse
[09:22] <Kamion> mdz: there isn't
[09:23] <mdz> Kamion: please file a bug, assign to mvo
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: stars is main in sarge contrib in sid
[09:23] <lamont> gah
[09:23] <lamont> main in sarge, contrib in sid
[09:24] <lamont> so yeah, it should move to multiverse
[09:24] <mvo_> Kamion: sorry, missed the first bit. what is the problem?
[09:25] <Kamion> mvo_: daniels reported that installs fail due to his clock being set to 2003, which means that gpgv reports the signatures as invalid due to being from the future
[09:25] <lamont> mdz email sent, cc you et al
[09:25] <Kamion> mvo_: I'd like to make the installer always use gpgv --ignore-time-conflict to fix this; it's probably not a problem outside the installer because ntpdate gets run etc.
[09:26] <mdz> mvo_: basically, we need a new config parameter in apt to pass options to gpgv
[09:26] <mdz> Acquire::gpgv::options
[09:27] <Kamion> mdz: bug #6283 filed with excerpt from this conversation
[09:28] <mvo_> Kamion,mdz: right, thanks
[09:29] <jdub> mdz: pong
[09:30] <mdz> jdub: good meeting with cliff tonight, can we do a conference call in ~20 hours?
[09:30] <Kamion> daniels: debootstrap and net-retriever fixed, anyway
[09:30] <daniels> Kamion: thanks dude
[09:30] <fabbione> daniels: l-r-m?
[09:30] <jdub> mdz: hrm
[09:30] <jdub> mdz: sounds handwavingly okay
[09:31] <mdz> jdub: if you need a different time, reply to cliff's mail
[09:31] <jdub> mdz: so not 4pm thursday?
[09:31] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, am doing that now
[09:31] <Kamion> I'll roll new CDs when new l-r-m appears
[09:31] <Kamion> I expect to be blocking on it today though
[09:31] <fabbione> Kamion: i think we also need a new linux-meta
[09:31] <daniels> fabbione: just had to go to the shop and buy a new video card, because I was stuck with heaps of crappy PCI cards (only have PCI and PCIE, got a new card on order)
[09:32] <daniels> fabbione: the ones I had were all 4MB and didn't do DDC
[09:32] <mdz> jdub: oh, right
[09:32] <fabbione> daniels: that's becasue -au hw sucks :P
[09:32] <mdz> jdub: I have no idea what day it is
[09:32] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[09:32] <mdz> jdub: anyway, I got him all set up so that he can do artwork development
[09:32] <Kamion> fabbione: (I can do that if nobody beats me to it)
[09:32] <jdub> mdz: cliff suggested a different time ;)
[09:33] <daniels> fabbione: don't speak too soon, kid -- i have the best video card on the planet on order
[09:33] <mdz> jdub: I thought today was tomorrow
[09:33] <mdz> jdub: ignore me
[09:35] <haggai> mdz: pong
[09:35] <haggai> mdz: finally nailed an OOo bug and will get to mail backlog today
[09:35] <mdz> haggai: hey, you're alive :-)
[09:36] <haggai> mdz: just :)  both of us came down with a bug from my wife's new workplace
[09:36] <mdz> haggai: need to talk with you/Kamion/amu about Kubuntu very soon, today if possible
[09:36] <jdub> morning Keybuk 
[09:37] <Keybuk> morning
[09:37] <mdz> Keybuk: any objections to moving the tech board meeting time?
[09:37] <haggai> mdz: ok, I'm going to be out for much of the evening (UK), I guess you need a time sometime then?
[09:37] <Keybuk> mdz: no major ones
[09:38] <mdz> haggai: when can you be available?  should be less than an hour
[09:38] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, I'll announce it then
[09:40] <Kamion> mdz: I would like it to finish before 19:00 UTC, because I want to be elsewhere at 19:40; is the tech board meeting slot now free?
[09:40] <mdz> haggai: we'll be straightening out what needs to get done in order to start producing Kubuntu CD images
[09:40] <mdz> Kamion: tech board meeting slot is now free, but that's a week from now
[09:41] <fabbione> Kamion: up to you, but i would wait l-r-m first
[09:41] <mdz> we can meet at 1800 UTC
[09:41] <mdz> amu: does that work for you?
[09:42] <amu> mdz: yes, it's fine for me
[09:43] <haggai> ok 1800 then
[09:43] <ajmitch> hello haggai, haven't seen you round much lately
[09:43] <fabbione> hey haggai
[09:44] <fabbione> haggai: OO2 failed on sparc.. do you want the buildlogs?
[09:44] <haggai> hi ajmitch, yes I've not been around for a few days and now I have a large backlog :(
[09:44] <ajmitch> haggai: I had worked on some packages for universe that ogra started reviewing
[09:44] <ajmitch> but then I became a DD & got busy uploading my packages to sid
[09:45] <haggai> fabbione: uh, I guess so :)
[09:45] <haggai> ajmitch: ah, that's cool
[09:45] <Kamion> mdz: oh, d'oh
[09:45] <sivang> morning all
[09:45] <ajmitch> hi sivang 
[09:45] <fabbione> haggai: to what email address?
[09:45] <Kamion> fabbione: I intend to
[09:45] <haggai> fabbione: chris.halls@credativ.co.uk
[09:46] <Kamion> linux-meta's Maintainer: field is Herbert Xu, which should be changed. Who wants to volunteer?
[09:46] <sivang> hey ajmitch 
[09:46] <fabbione> Kamion: mdz :P
[09:46] <Kamion> or I can just make it "Ubuntu Kernel Team <ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>" or something
[09:46] <dholbach> morning
[09:46] <fabbione> Kamion: nah let's wait after this afternoon meeting
[09:46] <Kamion> ok
[09:46] <mdz> kernel team, certainly
[09:47] <fabbione> haggai: mail on the way
[09:50] <haggai> fabbione: kthx
[09:53] <sivang> morning dholbach 
[09:55] <dholbach> hello sivang!
[09:56] <fabbione> elmo: we definetely need more rsync slots or to limit to one connection per ip
[09:56] <fabbione> in the last 15 hours i couldn't connect once
[10:20] <pitti> elmo: regarding #6206, it is required to remove various (but not all) mozilla-firefox-locale-* packages from Hoary and to replace it by mozilla-firefox-locale-all
[10:20] <pitti> elmo: AFAICS it is required to do the removal before the new upload, right?
[10:22] <daniels> Kamion: sorry, my i386 (with all my sources, and my gpg key) has given up the ghost now and is flat-out refusing to boot.  might be a couple of hours before l-r-m wings its way up from me.
[10:22] <daniels> Kamion: (getting all the sources on to my laptop now, but it's taking a while)
[10:37] <troll_god> there is a bug in the mplayer meta pkg, failed dependency libavcodeccvs has a ver number that is too great to be satisfied 
[10:38] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[10:39] <seb128> hey
[10:42] <ogra> morning guys
[10:42] <ogra> (and girls )
[10:43] <pitti> Hi ogra 
[10:43] <pitti> sivang: don't bother with moz-ffox-locale-he-il
[10:43] <pitti> sivang: I'm already handling that now
[10:43] <ogra> pitti: we will have to do some work together this week http://www.grawert.net/hal_lsb_info.png
[10:44] <pitti> it'll be my pleasure :-)
[10:44] <ogra> i got everything in, but i dont trust my c-fu, so you will probably need to correct my stuff...
[10:45] <pitti> looks good
[10:45] <pitti> ogra: just send me a debdiff against the current hoary version
[10:45] <ogra> lol...yp, i know how to make my screenshots look good ;) even if the code is crap
[10:46] <pitti> ogra: "Auen hui, innen pfui"?
[10:46] <pitti> :-)
[10:46] <ogra> pitti: mal sehn  ;) 
[10:46] <pitti> ogra: is this one big patch or did you split it up?
[10:47] <ogra> pitti: i wanted zto make one big one... but if you like it in piecmeal i'll d that as well
[10:47] <pitti> ogra: if it makes sense to split it up, then it will certainly be better (also for upstream inclusion)
[10:48] <pitti> ogra: e. g. one patch for a general /proc support and several patches for reading info out of it
[10:48] <pitti> ogra: but if it does not make sense, just keep a monolithic patch
[10:48] <ogra> pitti: i dont think we can convince upstream to use the dmi data....
[10:48] <dholbach> hi ogra, hi seb128
[10:49] <mdz> night all
[10:49] <pitti> Night mdz
[10:49] <ogra> pitti: the key values seem not no be standarized, so i wont be able to spec them....which will avoid inclusion by upstream :(
[10:49] <mvo_> night mdz 
[10:49] <dholbach> bye mdz
[10:49] <ogra> night mdz
[10:49] <Simira> helix :)
[10:49] <Simira> night mdz
[10:49] <helix> shh
[10:50] <ogra> pitti: but lsb_reease, cpuinfo and meminfo should go upstream
[10:50] <pitti> ogra: sure, then it will make sense to split that out
[10:50] <daniels> my laptop's wireless is now in ARE-WE-THERE-YET? mode, where it flatly refuses to hold an association for more than two seconds
[10:50] <pitti> daniels: saw a ghost?
[10:51] <pitti> daniels: then you need to learn to work really fast :-)
[10:51] <Simira> :D
[10:52] <daniels> heh
[10:52] <daniels> technology hates me today
[10:53] <pitti> daniels: /var/backups/pencil'n'paper?
[10:53] <Simira> daniels: want my new, broken webcam as well?
[10:54] <Treenaks> helix: "No pleasure, no rapture, no exquisite sin greater... than central air. " - Dogma ;)
[10:54] <helix> that is SO untrue
[10:55] <helix> the sin part, anyway
[10:55] <Treenaks> helix: watch the movie, you'll understand ;)
[10:55] <helix> yessir
[10:57] <Kinnison> Hi
[10:57] <Kinnison> seb128: ping?
[10:57] <seb128> pong
[10:57] <daniels> oh dear.
[10:57] <Kinnison> Evo's threading has gone all shitty, is that a known issue?
[10:57] <daniels> right, I think the northbridge on my i386 has died.
[10:57] <Kinnison> daniels: ergh. New mobo time
[10:58] <seb128> yep, known issue here and upstream
[10:58] <Treenaks> Kinnison: I've heard other people complain about that..
[10:58] <Kinnison> seb128: okay cool
[10:58] <daniels> Kinnison: yeah
[10:58] <daniels> Kinnison: but, otoh, I did just get this shiny amd64 up and going today ...
[10:58] <Kinnison> Also, imap subscriptions appear to be a touch screwwy
[10:58] <Kinnison> daniels: Mmmm amd64 shinyness :-)
[10:59] <seb128> Kinnison: http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=72058
[10:59] <Kinnison> seb128: thanks dude, you're a star
[10:59] <seb128> np :)
[11:00] <seb128> a guy is asking if we have a list of hardware configurations supported by ubuntu ?
[11:01] <Treenaks> seb128: uh, I think I saw something like that on the wiki
[11:01] <ogra> seb128: single devices and laptops are on the wiki.... no complete desktop systems though
[11:02] <seb128> I know about the wiki, but that's not really an official list, that's feedback from users
[11:02] <ogra> seb128: i'm working on the hwdb.... but the client is only a skeleton yet.... hoary+1 will have a nice hwdb.... promised ;)
[11:03] <HrdwrBoB> heh ogra
[11:03] <ogra> hey HrdwrBoB, i ve seen your wiki page... nice to meet you ;)
[11:03] <Treenaks> ogra: I think he means something like "If you buy a Foocorp MegaDesktop, Ubuntu will be supported."
[11:03] <seb128> yep
[11:04] <ogra> Treenaks: yep... thats what the hwdb will do for us ;)
[11:04] <Treenaks> ogra: (supported like "main" is supported, and "universe" is not)
[11:04] <ajmitch> hi ogra 
[11:04] <ogra> ajmitch: hi, i heard you are a DD now ?
[11:04] <ajmitch> ogra: yes, that is right
[11:05] <ogra> ajmitch: so some second MOTU/CC/TB should approve you right away now, i dont think that additional package review is necessary
[11:05] <ajmitch> ogra: ok
[11:05] <ajmitch> that sounds good to me :)
[11:06] <ogra> ajmitch: to me too....but i already approved your ;) 
[11:06] <ogra> so lets find some second one ....
[11:08] <ajmitch> ok..
[11:10] <ajmitch> hmm, haggai was around earlier
[11:10] <HrdwrBoB> ogra: :)
[11:10] <HrdwrBoB> ogra: cool :)
[11:10] <ajmitch> I think it's a quiet time of day
[11:10] <ogra> ajmitch: haggai is in uk..... its 10am there.....
[11:10] <ajmitch> it's still quiet :)
[11:11] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: already picked a package you like ?
[11:11] <ajmitch> ogra: btw what's been organised so far for MOTUTeams?
[11:11] <HrdwrBoB> not really, all the stuff I'm really interested in is mostly in main :)
[11:12] <HrdwrBoB> so I'll grab random stuff
[11:12] <Treenaks> ogra: I like the phpgroupware ones :)
[11:12] <ajmitch> Treenaks: heh, I can help with phpgw :)
[11:12] <Treenaks> ogra: I have to support them for a few small companies anyway.
[11:13] <Treenaks> ajmitch: great :)
[11:13] <ogra> HrdwrBoB: heh, same as i did....
[11:13] <ajmitch> Treenaks: partly because I'm involved in phpgw upstream
[11:13] <ogra> Treenaks: pick what you like ;) 
[11:13] <ajmitch> tv has uploaded 0.9.16.005 to sid in the last couple of days
[11:14] <Treenaks> ajmitch: does it include an apache2 config option?
[11:14] <ajmitch> Treenaks: not that I'm aware of currently
[11:14] <HrdwrBoB> ogra: I was going to do serpentine if that's not already covered
[11:14] <ajmitch> but I haven't looked at the debs too much
[11:14] <Treenaks> ajmitch: using the apache1 config file in apache2 works, but it's a bit hackish :)
[11:14] <Treenaks> ajmitch: it shouldn't be too hard
[11:14] <ajmitch> I'm too used to running from CVS
[11:15] <ogra> HrdwrBoB:nope, not as far as i know....take it....(and add a hint to UniverseCandidates if you do)
[11:15] <sivang> pitti: ok, cool, thanks alot!
[11:16] <ajmitch> ogra: btw I'd like to get involved with the python & zope teams since I use them a bit - plone & zope cmf packages need synced to sid versions to be installable
[11:17] <ogra> ajmitch: i would very much appreciate if we had a zope team...even if its only one guy currently....
[11:18] <ajmitch> well I'll hunt around for another CC/TB/MOTU person who could approve me :)
[11:18] <ajmitch> but I don't think I'll have much luck tonight
[11:21] <ajmitch> I notice that a few of the python packages have been fixed up for py 2.4
[11:22] <ogra> ajmitch: doko is our python god here.....
[11:22] <ajmitch> ogra: yep
[11:22] <daniels> thom: ping
[11:22] <ajmitch> he's also the gcc wizard
[11:23] <daniels> thom: actually, unping
[11:24] <ajmitch> ogra: the python transition just needs to be managed nicely, there are a few uploaded now that I worked on last week :)
[11:25] <ogra> ajmitch: sorry, that was my fault, i wanted to make a wiki page with a list of assigned packages with doko but ran out of time with the hwdb ....could you talk to him
[11:25] <ogra> ?
[11:25] <ajmitch> ogra: sure, but I don't know who the uploader is :)
[11:26] <ogra> ajmitch: pretty sure doko....
[11:26] <ajmitch> charles majola
[11:26] <ajmitch> he's been doing most of the universe python packages so far
[11:26] <ogra> ajmitch: he (doko) probably only signed the upload....
[11:26] <ajmitch> I'm just looking on the changes list
[11:27] <ajmitch> via gmane
[11:27] <thom> daniels: <ping cancelled>
[11:28] <daniels> thom: was going to ask you about 4343, but I can do it on my machine now
[11:28] <daniels> thom: (looked at the r300 programming guide, worked out what the bug almost certainly was)
[11:28] <ajmitch> hello Kamion 
[11:28] <daniels> Kamion: can you please do l-r-m?  i'm putting the disks from my i386 into the amd64 (it is completely, totally, utterly dead) now, so it might be a while
[11:29] <Kamion> daniels: ok, will do
[11:29] <Kamion> daniels: just a matter of a rebuild, or is there anything more complicated>?
[11:29] <daniels> Kamion: cheers
[11:29] <haggai> ajmitch: just done some more research and I'm happy to approve you for MOTU
[11:29] <daniels> Kamion: should just be a rebuild.  fglrx will be busted (not ftbfs, just won't work when you run it), but that's nothing new.
[11:29] <ajmitch> haggai: thanks
[11:30] <thom> daniels: ah
[11:30] <ogra> haggai: what about a zope team lead ;)
[11:30] <ogra> haggai: since zope/plone needs urgently some love
[11:30] <elmo> Kamion: don't forget the "haha, GOT YOU" version number crap
[11:30] <ogra> elmo
[11:31] <fabbione> and the ABI change!
[11:31] <daniels> nvidia_minor, ati_minor, avm_minor, and whatever it was that I added the other week
[11:31] <ogra> read the above ? ajmitch will send you a key i guess
[11:31] <ajmitch> mako has a signed CoC from me
[11:31] <ajmitch> fwiw
[11:31] <ogra> ajmitch: ah, great
[11:31] <elmo> ogra: eh?
[11:32] <ogra> elmo: <haggai> ajmitch: just done some more research and I'm happy to approve you for MOTU
[11:32] <ogra> elmo: i already approved him at the last meeting ;)
[11:33] <ajmitch> sigh, apt-get working at 2K/sec
[11:34] <elmo> ajmitch: send  your keyid and a copyof the signed CoC to upload@ubuntu.com.  (I know you sent the later to mako, but unless you want to wait for him to wake up...)
[11:34] <Kamion> elmo: I should probably manage to get that right third time round or whatever :P
[11:35] <ajmitch> elmo: alright
[11:35] <ogra> so ladies and gentleman.... please welcome OUR NEW MOTU ajmitch
[11:36] <ogra> ajmitch: please add yourself to the MOTU page ;)
[11:36] <amu> ubuntu-holiday: phoned Eduard, he confirmed the reservation, got the last 4 seats, mail follows
[11:36] <ogra> lol
[11:37] <thom> ajmitch: just try not to get all tearful
[11:37] <doko> ogra: zope2.7 should be ready tonight, working currently on plone
[11:37] <thom> we hate that, mopping up takes ages
[11:37] <ajmitch> doko: excellent!
[11:37] <doko> ajmitch: are you currently working on python universe updates?
[11:37] <ogra> doko: i think you can coordinate with ajmitch now....
[11:37] <ajmitch> doko: trying to
[11:38] <ajmitch> are you working with zope 2.7.4?
[11:38] <fabbione> elmo: did you switch to use xinetd for rsync?
[11:38] <doko> ajmitch: are there some common questions for the transitions? (zope: yes)
[11:38] <elmo> fabbione: no
[11:39] <fabbione> ok :(
[11:39] <ajmitch> doko: common questions would be which python versions are being supported (2.2-2.4)?
[11:39] <sivang> pheee, that is creepy http://www.google-watch.org/gmail.html :-/
[11:39] <doko> ajmitch: 2.3 and 2.4 are supported in main, universe has 2.1 and 2.2. it depends on you what you want to support
[11:41] <ajmitch> alright, what work needs done with plone & zope packages?
[11:45] <haggai> ogra: looks like we have a volunteer for the lead then :)  What needs doing?
[11:46] <ogra> haggai: probably an announcement will be enough... i still have no idea how this teams thing shall work if there are more then one person....will we vote for a leader ? will the team elect ?
[11:46] <Kamion> daniels: ok, uploaded, will see what the buildds make of it
[11:47] <haggai> ogra: let the people interested decide for themselves (unless there is a conflict of interest)?
[11:47] <ogra> haggai: i want to keep the flames at a low level, so we will have to find a system for it....i'm not the person to assign teamleaders beyond the start i think..
[11:48] <haggai> ogra: from among the MOTU
[11:48] <sivang> mvo_: morning
[11:48] <haggai> that is maybe the closest to the system for Ubuntu
[11:49] <sivang> mvo_: you're making update-notifier right? :)
[11:49] <ogra> haggai: first one goes first ?
[11:51] <mvo_> sivang: yes
[11:51] <mvo_> sivang: morning btw
[11:51] <ogra> btw, as i wrote on MOTUTeams, i dont think a teamleader has to be a MOTU, it should be enough to be member to lead a team... since not everything done by the team will be technical
[11:51] <mvo_> :)
[11:51] <sivang> mvo_: what would you say about adding an about dialog from the main program dialog, that uses GtkAboutDialog? :)
[11:51] <haggai> ogra: yes.  I think we're more likely to be needed to find people to work on something at all, than to stop too many people from working on something :)
[11:51] <haggai> (given the number of packages in universe)
[11:52] <sivang> mvo_: or is it part of synaptic ? (which already has one)
[11:52] <ogra> haggai: i have a list wit about 10 ppl frm here (IRC) i will ask.... and every new MOTU is encouraged to recruit new ones indeed , eh, ajmitch ?
[11:52] <mvo_> sivang: it makes heavy use of synaptic, but it is not part of it. a about dialog? yeah. would be nice
[11:52] <ajmitch> ogra: of course, it's like a pyramid scheme :)
[11:53] <haggai> ajmitch: oh, I forgot to tell you about the fee for the scheme.. :)
[11:53] <ogra> snowball i thought... but pyramid is also a good picture ;)
[11:53] <Treenaks> a snowball rolling down from a pyramid!
[11:53] <ogra> yay
[11:55] <haggai> ogra: it helps for a team leader to have upload rights; I think I would give prio to MOTU to lead
[11:56] <ogra> haggai: ok, but i'd like to discuss this later if there is a non MOTU who wants to tke a team lead :)
[11:56] <haggai> ogra: most of the jobs that you have outlined on motuteams need MOTU to complete, and the team leader is in the best decision to decide when a new version is ready
[11:57] <haggai> ogra: sure, if there's no MOTU interested then its not such a good plan :)
[11:57] <haggai> ogra: but I think such a person should be wanting to become MOTU anyway
[11:58] <ajmitch> haggai: then you need to encourage the team leader to be a MOTU
[11:58] <haggai> exactly
[11:58] <ogra> yup :)
[11:58] <haggai> and saying they need to be MOTU is a good form of encouragement :)
[12:00] <daniels> Kamion: thanks mate
[12:05] <YokoZar> haggai: hey, can we talk?
[12:06] <YokoZar> Oh cool ogra's here too
[12:08] <YokoZar> I added the Wine MOTU team to the Wiki, although for now it's going to be largely a team of one (me) until I demonstrate how to port a Windows app to Ubuntu universe with Winelib.  That is, if I become an MOTU - I need your endorsements and signatures to my key :)
[12:08] <Treenaks> YokoZar: where are you?
[12:09] <Treenaks> YokoZar: it should be easy to get signatures in most parts of the world
[12:09] <YokoZar> Treenaks: How exactly does geographic locality matter here?
[12:10] <ajmitch> YokoZar: you get signatures when you meet people in person who verify your identity
[12:10] <Treenaks> YokoZar: well, people with gpg keys aren't distributed evenly across the planet
[12:10] <ajmitch> conferences are great for that
[12:10] <YokoZar> Ah I figured I could just verify it over the phone.  Hrmph...  I'm in Northern California
[12:11] <Treenaks> YokoZar: there are /lots/ of people with gpg keys in CA :)
[12:11] <ajmitch> no, it's usually done with photo ID
[12:11] <ajmitch> eg I used my passport & student ID with photo
[12:11] <doko> elmo: please sync perl from unstable (to address #4638)
[12:11] <elmo> doko: ok to override ubuntu changes?
[12:12] <YokoZar> ajmitch: and then scanned them in and emailed em?
[12:12] <haggai> YokoZar: you're on my list of reviews to do; you had a lot of changes for wine which I wanted to look at more closely
[12:12] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  perl_5.8.4-5ubuntu1 (vs 5.8.4-6)
[12:12] <doko> elmo: there's only one (pitti's security update, which is included in -6 as well)
[12:12] <ajmitch> YokoZar: no, I met with people in person who then could sign my GPG key
[12:13] <elmo> doko: ok.  [I have to ask these days; people kept losing ubuntu changes by mistake :)] 
[12:13] <ogra> YokoZar: dont you have a lug near you ?
[12:13] <YokoZar> haggai: Ahh, ok.  I've got some more changes coming in too, though they're mostly improvements (such as integrating the user guide into the help menus)
[12:13] <YokoZar> ogra: Yeah I was the guest speaker at the LUG last time I was there, heh.  I'll check the email list.
[12:14] <ogra> YokoZar: i'm sure anyone there could sign your key....
[12:15] <ogra> YokoZar: if you cant find someone, there is an additional way that tseng is just going through....
[12:15] <YokoZar> ?
[12:15] <ogra> it requires a notarial approved signed paper copy of the CoC
[12:16] <ogra> which you send by snailmail....
[12:17] <ogra> ask tseng for details, since he already did it this way
[12:19] <YokoZar> I think I'll just head to our small 25 person user's group and hope to get lucky, heh
[12:19] <ogra> heh, ok
[12:19] <YokoZar> In the meantime someone like you can upload my packages for me, heh
[12:20] <YokoZar> haggai: Did you mean changes to the Debian wine packages or just changes in general?  I made the packages from scratch
[12:20] <ogra> YokoZar: i think haggai will do it, if he came to your packages on his TODO list 
[12:20] <YokoZar> Most excellent
[12:21] <YokoZar> Everything is going according to the master plan.
[12:22] <sivang> bonjour seb128_ :)
[12:22] <seb128_> morning
[12:22] <ajmitch> YokoZar: well the small LUG here has about 5 debian developers :)
[12:23] <shlomil> sivang: hello
[12:30] <sivang> shlomil: hi
[12:34] <ajmitch> night all
[12:34] <dholbach> night ajmitch
[12:36] <sivang> night ajmitch 
[12:38] <haggai> YokoZar: I meant in general
[12:38] <YokoZar> haggai: ahh, ok
[12:44] <Keybuk> so, my attempt to upgrade warty -> hoary went *very* badly wrong
[12:44] <thom> ARGH
[12:44] <Keybuk> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libecal1.2-dev:
[12:44] <Keybuk>  libecal1.2-dev depends on libecal1.2-1 (= 1.1.4.2-0ubuntu1); however:
[12:44] <Keybuk>   Package libecal1.2-1 is not configured yet.
[12:44] <Keybuk> (lots of problems)
[12:44] <Keybuk> descent scott# aptitude dist-upgrade
[12:44] <Keybuk> aptitude: error while loading shared libraries: libapt-pkg-libc6.3-5.so.3.9: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[12:44] <Keybuk> aiiiiieeeee
[12:44] <daniels> whoohoo!
[12:47] <pitti> elmo: I just uploaded language-support-ast, which is in NEW. I seeded it now, so it can be processed
[12:48] <Kamion> Keybuk: apt-get dist-upgrade?
[12:48] <Kamion> apt-get will work even if aptitude isn't, considering that it's in the same package as libapt-pkg
[12:48] <Kamion> s/isn't/doesn't/
[12:48] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, that needed a -f, but it's running again at the moment
[12:48] <Kamion> or even just apt-get install aptitude I guess
[12:56] <elmo> Kamion: is the 'backup' user safe to use for my own nefarious purposes?
[12:56] <Kamion> base-passwd/users-and-groups doesn't know, so I don't either :-)
[12:56] <Kamion> backup
[12:56] <Kamion>     Presumably so backup/restore responsibilities can be locally delegated to
[12:56] <Kamion>     someone without full root permissions?
[12:56] <Kamion>     HELP: Is that right? Amanda reportedly uses this, details?
[12:56] <jdub> Kamion, mdz: do you have a machine with both a CD drive and CD burner?
[12:56] <Kamion> elmo: I think so, though
[12:56] <Kamion> jdub: as in separate devices? no
[12:56] <sivang> jdub: I have
[12:57] <pitti> jdub: I have, too
[12:57] <sivang> jdub: well, DVD and a CDRW
[12:57] <elmo> Kamion: k, tnx
[12:57] <jdub> sivang, pitti: can you test cd burning from the livecd?
[12:57] <pitti> jdub: sure
[12:58] <sivang> jdub: yes, sure, latest build?
[01:00] <jdub> but of course
[01:01] <Treenaks> elmo: could you sync phpgroupware from sid?
[01:01] <elmo> enrico?
[01:01] <elmo> meh
[01:02] <sivang> jdub: aye aye captain! (/me searches for the torrents)
[01:03] <sivang> hmm no torrents yet?
[01:06] <elmo> Treenaks: what email would you be using for packages?
[01:07] <Treenaks> elmo: uh, martijn@foodfight.org I guess
[01:07] <elmo> there's a UTF-8 for 'ij' ?
[01:07] <elmo> like, uh, why?
[01:08] <Treenaks> uh yes, but not in that email address :)
[01:08] <fabbione> Siemens ID USB Mouse Fingerprint sensor support (USB_IDMOUSE) [N/m/?]  (NEW) 
[01:08] <fabbione> impressive
[01:08] <elmo> Treenaks: I was just olooking at ubuntu-devel
[01:08] <Treenaks> elmo: historical stuff.. see "Dutch Y" in Wikipedia
[01:08] <Kamion> elmo: ligature
[01:09] <elmo> yeah, I just don't remember it being distinguished from normal letters in signs etc.
[01:09] <Kamion> elmo: when it's in title case, both I and J get capitalised, IIRC
[01:10] <Treenaks> yes, IJsselmeer, not Ijsselmeer etc.
[01:12] <pitti> elmo: please remove the following source packages entirely: mozilla-firefox-locale-{da,fr,sv,tr}
[01:12] <pitti> elmo: they will be replaced by the new mozilla-firefox-locale-all (which I will upload after the removal)
[01:13] <thom> seb128: how easy is it to add actions to flexiserver conditionally?
[01:13] <seb128> should be easy, why ?
[01:13] <thom> cool
[01:14] <thom> for hibernate and suspend actions on the logout menu
[01:14] <seb128> yeah, I've a bug open about this
[01:14] <thom> yes
[01:14] <thom> i'm working on the code to let you do it ;-)
[01:14] <thom> (the backend code)
[01:14] <seb128> k, cool
[01:23] <dholbach> dumbledore.hbd.com - nice :-)
[01:23] <dholbach> hi sabdfl 
[01:24] <elmo> pitti: why is their removal necessary first?
[01:24] <pitti> elmo: hmm, right, the package names differ
[01:25] <elmo> pitti: generally removal should be done afterwards to ensure version numbers really are >> etc.
[01:25] <elmo> Treenaks: done
[01:25] <pitti> ok
[01:27] <Treenaks> elmo: thanks
[01:30] <pitti> elmo: uploaded
[01:32] <Hwolf> who is the openoffice maintainer?
[01:32] <Treenaks> haggai, I think?
[01:33] <sabdfl> hi dholbach
[01:33] <Kamion> jdub: (question from much earlier) kickstart isn't quite testable yet; most of the infrastructure is there but it doesn't understand all the commands in kickstart files yet, which I'm still working on
[01:36] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[01:36] <jdub> Kamion: ah, ok
[01:36] <jdub> Kamion: i have a willing guinea pig as soon as it's ready to test
[01:37] <Kamion> jdub: cool, I'll ping you
[01:38] <Kamion> jdub: does this guinea pig have existing kickstart files?
[01:38] <jdub> yes, and generation infrastructure, etc.
[01:38] <jdub> red hat shop, debian fans
[01:39] <Kamion> jdub: if possible, I'd like a sample kickstart file so that I know what I need to prioritise
[01:39] <jdub> Kamion: ok, i'll ask
[01:39] <Kamion> thanks
[01:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I can see if I can get you the ones which are/was used at our uni?
[01:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that would be great
[01:42] <Kamion> I'm lacking real-life examples, mainly
[01:43] <Mithrandir> yeah, request sent
[01:44] <Kamion> basically the current state of kickstart is that I've written all (?) the infrastructure and implemented all (?) the commands that can easily be done without changes to the installer
[01:44] <Kamion> I'm now going through and souping up bits of the installer to support the previously-unimplementable kickstart commands
[01:45] <Kamion> i.e. adding extra debconf questions that can be preseeded
[01:45] <Mithrandir> first answer I got was "Our kickstart scripts are _ugly_"; I just replied that I'd like to have a copy nevertheless
[01:45] <Kamion> some of them I have precious little idea how to do in a d-i context, like 'skipx' (don't configure X)
[01:46] <Kamion> er, in an Ubuntu context, for that matter
[01:46] <Mithrandir> don't install X?
[01:46] <Kamion> it's not clear from the documentation, but I get the impression that Anaconda installs X but doesn't configure it if you use skipx
[01:47] <Mithrandir> uhm
[01:47] <Mithrandir> that sounds just weird.
[01:47] <Kamion> well, it doesn't configure X in its postinst equivalent, remember; the installer has a UI for it
[01:48] <Mithrandir> true
[01:50] <Kamion> TBH I'm inclined to just ignore it and hope that X never asks a question
[01:50] <daniels> Kamion: we could always have xserver-xorg/do_configure = false
[01:51] <Kamion> daniels: I think its real semantics are "don't show me the X configuration UI, and don't start X"
[01:51] <Kamion> don't start the display manager
[01:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: quoting; "You are aware that it is full of ed scripts, a couple of sed inlines and at least one perl inline script"
[01:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: good
[01:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the uglier the better; I want to see worst cases
[01:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (the perl bit won't work, of course, unless it's a %post script)
[01:52] <Mithrandir> 'course
[01:52] <Kamion> actually nor will the ed stuff, no ed in busybox; that'll be a laugh
[01:52] <elmo> ajmitch: ?
[01:52] <Kamion> but I don't mind if the result doesn't work, I just want to see what people are actually trying to do
[01:52] <daniels> Kamion: right
[01:53] <ajmitch> elmo: yes? 
[01:55] <ajmitch> elmo: did I forget to send something?
[01:56] <elmo> ajmitch: what email address you using for uploads?
[01:56] <ajmitch> usually ajmitch@gnu.org
[01:56] <elmo> usually? :)
[01:56] <elmo> I need to whitelist it
[01:57] <ajmitch> that's what's on all my debian packages :)
[01:57] <ajmitch> so yes, that address
[01:59] <pitti> sivang: mozilla-firefox-locale-all (which includes -he-il) is in
[01:59] <pitti> elmo: thanks
[02:11] <lypanov> umm
[02:11] <lypanov> is archive slow?
[02:11] <lypanov> are there mirrors?
[02:11] <Kamion> lypanov: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[02:12] <daniels> lypanov: yo
[02:12] <Kamion> hm, so kickstart has a 'firewall' command
[02:12] <lypanov> daniels: how goes? :)
[02:12] <Kamion> what should we do with it? :)
[02:13] <fabbione> *cough*killit*couhg*
[02:13] <Kamion> fabbione: can't.
[02:13] <lypanov> wow. ubuntulinux.org is also slow as heck here
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: what are the parameter for 'firewall'?
[02:14] <Kamion> it lets you: (a) specify a "security level", which I don't know the details of; (b) allow all traffic from listed interfaces; (c) allow specified services (dhcp, ssh, telnet, smtp, http, ftp); (d) allow specified ports
[02:14] <daniels> lypanov: not too bad, just battling stupid nvidia motherboards
[02:14] <fabbione> oh i remember
[02:15] <lypanov> daniels: ugh. m/b's or gfx crds?
[02:15] <Hwolf> Did anything change in gnome-system-monitor since yesterday?
[02:15] <fabbione> Kamion: b/c/d can easily be done via iptables
[02:15] <daniels> lypanov: motherboards; trying to get optical out (spdif)
[02:15] <Kamion> our "no services listening by default" policy is not relevant here, because kickstart installs are not default
[02:15] <Kamion> fabbione: erm, I need this to be debconf-preseedable, ideally
[02:15] <Kamion> I *can* fake it up as a %post script or something if need be
[02:15] <daniels> (oh, and the acx100 driver doesn't work on amd64.  whoohoo!!)
[02:16] <fabbione> Kamion: that's kinda complex.. because iirc the fc installer allows you to manually edit the ports
[02:16] <sivang> pitti: thanks!
[02:16] <Kamion> daniels: acx100 wasn't endian-clean last I checked, I see no reason why it should be 64-bit-clean :P
[02:16] <fabbione> Kamion: you can preseed a multiselect from 1 to 65536?
[02:16] <Kamion> fabbione: for preseeding it could just be a space-separated string; that's not a problem
[02:17] <fabbione> and tcp/udp/icmp combination
[02:17] <Kamion> well, iptables is in base, at least
[02:17] <Kamion> maybe I can write out an init script
[02:17] <Mitario> hi everyone
[02:17] <fabbione> but can debconf manange 65K entries in ${choise}?
[02:18] <Kamion> it doesn't need to, because this would not be presented to the user
[02:18] <daniels> ah, actually
[02:18] <daniels> Kamion: the developers claim it works on amd64
[02:18] <Kamion> as it happens it can, but all the same :)
[02:18] <Kamion> although any presentation would be total crap
[02:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: acx100 works on amd64; I know it since I use it every day.
[02:19] <daniels> can we please gat that into the stock kernel images, then?
[02:19] <fabbione> what+
[02:19] <fabbione> ?
[02:19] <daniels> fabbione: acx100
[02:19] <daniels> fabbione: for amd64
[02:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: maybe they've fixed it; it used to be bust on powerpc
[02:19] <fabbione> amd64/amd64-generic:CONFIG_ACX100=m
[02:19] <fabbione> amd64/amd64-k8:CONFIG_ACX100=m
[02:19] <fabbione> amd64/amd64-xeon:CONFIG_ACX100=m
[02:19] <fabbione> amd64/amd64-k8-smp:CONFIG_ACX100=m
[02:19] <Mithrandir> daniels: it's there; at least in l-r-m
[02:20] <fabbione> dude are you on some kind of crack?=
[02:20] <Mithrandir> been since a bit after warty released.
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no idea about PPC, since I don't use my acx100 in a ppc
[02:20] <fabbione> powerpc/power4-smp:CONFIG_ACX100=m
[02:20] <fabbione> and it is compiled also on ppc..
[02:20] <daniels> Mithrandir: ah, bong
[02:20] <Mithrandir> fabbione: that doesn't mean it works
[02:20] <fabbione> tho we have no idea if it works
[02:20] <Mithrandir> daniels: it's bonged on warty, tho.
[02:20] <fabbione> Mithrandir: exactly..
[02:21] <fabbione> somebody sends me a PPC
[02:21] <fabbione> and i will happily test the driver
[02:21] <Kamion> haha, the "security levels" other than disabled in kickstart firewall configuration are all just aliases to "enabled"
[02:21] <fabbione> perhaps thom
[02:21] <daniels> Mithrandir: *shrug*, this is hoary
[02:21] <fabbione> perhaps thom's ipod
[02:21] <Hwolf> fabbione: get a mac mini. :-D
[02:21] <Hwolf> ;-)
[02:21] <thom> ipod isn't ppc afaik, so you can piss off :P
[02:21] <daniels> sudo rmmod e1000 && sudo modprobe e1000
[02:21] <daniels> guh
[02:21] <fabbione> thom: the big one :P
[02:22] <thom> fabbione: oh, go steal it from L3 then
[02:22] <fabbione> eheh
[02:22] <thom> i'm not carrying one of them any more
[02:22] <fabbione> thom: are you too fragile for them? ;)
[02:22] <thom> too lazy for them, yes
[02:26] <amu> seb128: ping 
[02:26] <seb128> amu: pong
[02:27] <amu> seb128: the flights are fine for y? 
[02:27] <seb128> which ones ? the one from yesterday ? yep
[02:27] <seb128> oh
[02:27] <seb128> just reading my mails
[02:28] <amu> ^^ 
[02:28] <seb128> yep, that's fine
[02:29] <daniels> kamion	
[02:29] <daniels> '(for a start: our driver now supports AMD64, PowerPC, MIPS and of course x86
[02:29] <daniels> -- now please try to do that with NDIS loader "solutions", ok?)'
[02:30] <amu> seb128: also those from luxembourg to frankfurt and back?   
[02:30] <Kamion> daniels: fair enough
[02:31] <seb128> amu: yep, I'm replying to the mail
[02:32] <daniels> hm.  to complete my day of technology hate, I just stepped on a double adaptor and put a rather sizeable hole in my heel.
[02:32] <lypanov> ouch
[02:33] <lypanov> daniels: ask them how longer it took them to support x86 in comparison to adding one function to getting the comparable ndis loader working :P
[02:33] <lypanov> s/how /&much /
[02:33] <amu> seb128: thx
[02:34] <daniels> lypanov: heh
[02:34] <daniels> frig!  normal audio works fine, but it appears SPDIF on nForce4 just doesn't exist in Linux right now.
[02:35] <Kamion> ndis is still a ghastly wrong hack though
[02:35] <Kamion> very useful (if you happen to have a computer that can use it), but still ghastly :)
[02:35] <daniels> heh
[02:36] <jdub> daniels: you're using the correct subdevice for it?
[02:37] <daniels> jdub: yeah
[02:37] <daniels> card 0, device 2
[02:37] <daniels> tried a hojillion combinations of that sort of stuff, dmix, everything
[02:38] <daniels> it certainly seems to be at least *present*, because if you throw 8kHz at it, it screams about only wanting 48kHz
[02:44] <jdub> daniels: bummer, 'cos nforce2 works ok
[02:44] <daniels> jdub: aye.  oh well, it'll probably improve (maybe around the same time i actually get a device that pciutils knows about)
[02:45] <zul> hey
[02:45] <daniels> oh no, I lie -- it knows about the acx111 (wifi), the sata controller, the firewire controller, and the marvell eth controller
[02:45] <daniels> the other 21 are unknown ;)
[02:46] <tseng> i was pretty suprised to find out last night that my acx111 card just works in the installer
[02:47] <zul> is that the 2.6.10-15 kernel?
[02:47] <fabbione> nah
[02:47] <fabbione> i fixed that a while ago
[02:48] <zul> dang..:)
[02:48] <fabbione> zul: i am "bootstrapping" 2.6.11
[02:48] <fabbione> based on bk snapshots
[02:48] <zul> and?
[02:48] <fabbione> and just that you know...
[02:48] <zul> cool
[02:49] <sivang> hmm I Still have to manually pumount the burner before being able to use it to burn
[02:49] <zul> fabbione: how is the usb stuff in it
[02:49] <fabbione> zul: dunno.. fixing the few FTBFS problems on i386 now
[02:50] <fabbione> they changed the API in DVB support
[02:50] <fabbione> without fixing the drivers (yet)
[02:50] <zul> yeah i heard that
[02:51] <zul> because i dont have a fucking fix :)
[02:51] <thom> we leave it for our illustrious kernel maintainer
[02:52] <lamont> fabbione: I may wind up being a few minutes late to the meeting - 8AM is a bad time for me
[02:52] <daniels> thom: hm, working on that principle -- firefox leaks ram like a bitch
[02:52] <daniels> thom: can you please fix it?
[02:52] <daniels> thom: i think it would be really good if you did
[02:52] <daniels> thom: ARE WE THERE YET??
[02:52] <fabbione> lamont: ok
[02:53] <thom> daniels: certainly. just type "killall -9 firefox-bin" as many times as you feel necessary. et voila, no more memory leaked
[02:53] <daniels> thom: make sure never to report any firefox bugs.  ever.  or you know how they'll end up.
[02:53] <daniels> s/firefox/xorg/
[02:54] <sivang> thom: nice, we should automate it
[02:54] <fabbione> thom: why don't you crontab it?
[02:54] <sivang> :)
[02:54] <fabbione> killall -9 firefox
[02:54] <jbailey> Yar.  hotplug fails to patch all it's files correctly with LANG=fr_CA.utf-8.  Works fine with LANG=C
[02:54] <sivang> fabbione: lol
[02:54] <jbailey> I wonder if debuild should scrub LANG as well?
[02:54] <Treenaks> jbailey: no, it should just set LC_ALL
[02:55] <Treenaks> jbailey: which overrides /everything/ else
[02:55] <elmo> jbailey: dpkg-buildpackage should
[02:55] <elmo> if anything - not debuild
[02:56] <jbailey> Treenaks: Would it just be LC_ALL=C then?
[02:56] <Treenaks> jbailey: I think so, yes
[02:57] <thom> jbailey: or just LC_SORT for hotplug
[02:57] <thom> LC_COLLATE, even
[02:58] <zul> fabbione: i did some of the usb merging last night
[02:58] <fabbione> zul: good
[02:58] <zul> its not pretty though
[03:01] <fabbione> i am off for a long break
[03:01] <fabbione> cya at the meeting
[03:01] <zul> k
[03:01] <daniels> have fun, fabbione
[03:06] <justdave> who has access to change code on bugzilla.ubuntu.com these days?
[03:06] <elmo> justdave: I can
[03:07] <justdave> amu needs the address changed that the liveCD bugs go to, and because of the hack we did with keywords for that, it's hardcoded in one of the templates
[03:07] <justdave> template/en/default/bug/create/create.html.tmpl:59:        if (document.getElementById("keywords").value == 'livecd') { owner = 'amu@tr.debian.net' }
[03:07] <justdave> have to ask him what address to change it to
[03:08] <justdave> I think that's under /var/www/warty-bugs IIRC
[03:08] <amu> justdave: elmo: amu@ubuntu.com 
[03:09] <elmo> justdave:  data/template/[...]  or template/[..]  ?
[03:09] <justdave> template/
[03:09] <justdave> data/template is just a cache, it'll get rebuilt if template/ changes
[03:10] <elmo> ok, changed
[03:11] <elmo> justdave: thanks
[03:11] <justdave> np
[03:16] <daniels> things that are not quick include: copying 200GB of data off an ATA100 drive.
[03:18] <jdub> daniels: rm -rf ~/.ccache ;-)
[03:19] <daniels> jdub: it's just ~/mirror and ~/music at this stage
[03:19] <daniels> jdub: given that together they're >100GB, ~/.ccache is the least of my worries
[03:24] <daniels> jdub: are we getting mono/amd64 for hoary?
[03:24] <fabbione> daniels: mono isn't really portable
[03:24] <fabbione> it doesn't even build where it is supposed to
[03:24] <daniels> oh?  i thought it was working on amd64 these days
[03:24] <daniels> heh
[03:25] <fabbione> it claims to work on sparc.. the fact is that it doesn't even build
[03:25] <fabbione> mono -> Trashcan
[03:27] <jdub> daniels: if we got 1.1, yes, but no one has done that yet
[03:27] <jdub> fabbione: 1.1 will
[03:27] <daniels> jdub: ah
[03:33] <jdub> seb128: ping
[03:34] <fabbione> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12194177%255E2702,00.html
[03:34] <fabbione> CUUUTE
[03:34] <seb128> jdub: pong
[03:35] <jdub> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-icon-theme_2.9.91-0ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):
[03:35] <jdub>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run.png', which is also in package gnome-panel-data
[03:35] <jdub> 
[03:35] <jdub> seb128: then it upgrades on second invocation of dist-upgrade
[03:35] <seb128> grumpf
[03:35] <thom> fabbione: yes, cell is cool
[03:35] <thom> http://tinyurl.com/4rrb8 just for Keybuk 
[03:35] <seb128> jdub: I've probably put the conflict/replace on gnome-panel instead of gnome-panel-data
[03:36] <seb128> grrr
[03:36] <jdub> yeah
[03:36] <seb128> yep, 
[03:36] <seb128> jdub: thanks for noticing :)
[03:37] <lypanov> k. gtg
[03:37] <lypanov> bbl
[03:37] <dholbach> thom: this is supposed to be a joke, isnt it?
[03:37] <lypanov> ciao daniels :)
[03:38] <pitti> seb128: I just upgraded my laptop
[03:38] <pitti> seb128: there is a file conflict
[03:39] <pitti> seb128: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run.png is both in gnome-panel-data and gnome-icon-theme
[03:39] <pitti> ouch
[03:39] <seb128> read the 10 lines before yours
[03:39] <pitti> seb128: argh, sorry
[03:40] <seb128> np :)
[03:40] <seb128> already uploaded a fixed version
[03:40] <pitti> seb128: I only see the last 8 lines of xchat, the others are covered by consoles :-)
[03:40] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[03:40] <seb128> np :)
[03:40] <thom> dholbach: i rather suspect not
[03:41] <dholbach> thom: ouch.... OUCH!
[03:42] <Keybuk> thom: and people claimed the Welsh didn't have the balls to play Rugby
[03:42] <jdub> hrm
[03:42] <jdub> who had the warty dance video?
[03:42] <thom> Keybuk: and now they're right
[03:42] <Keybuk> heard about that this morning on Virgin, gave me a giggle
[03:42] <fabbione> Kamion: that would be nice
[03:42] <daniels> jdub: it's in carlos's thingy from Photos on the wiki, IIRC
[03:43] <jdub> ta
[03:43] <carlos> jdub: http://carlos.pemas.net/gallery
[03:43] <carlos> don't remember the exact URL
[03:43] <jdub> thanks!
[03:44] <doko> jbailey: gcc-4.0 packaging is finished
[03:44] <jbailey> doko: /me happy dances
[03:46] <amu> jdub: keyword Luis ;) i told your guys, i'll help, than all disapper 
[03:47] <jdub> amu: lu|reading has been here :)
[03:48] <lu|reading> amu!
[03:48] <amu> oh my god :) he's alive 
[03:48] <lu|reading> haha
[03:48] <lu|reading> I am
[03:48] <lu|reading> I've been playing a lot at home
[03:49] <jdub> TMI
[03:49] <thom> got to fill those long, unemployed days, i guess
[03:49] <amu> jdub: FBI
[03:49] <lu|reading> amu: http://tieguy.org/blog/ has several posts on what I've been playing with
[03:49] <lu|reading> still no good art
[03:50] <amu> lu|reading: letme check ...  
[03:51] <daniels> heh
[03:51] <daniels> Kamion: lu != lulu
[03:51] <Hwolf> seb128?
[03:51] <Mitario> hey guys
[03:52] <jdub> Kamion: lu is now a man, living in boston.
[03:52] <jdub> Kamion: well. kind of man.
[03:52] <daniels> jdub: what was he before that?
[03:52] <jdub> daniels: she was our project manager
[03:53] <daniels> jdub: woah
[03:53] <amu> lu|reading: i'm sorry, i dont like them :) should i ask my personal designer? hehe did fanstatic work at gnoppix      
[03:53] <daniels> jdub: so who was managing the monkeys?
[03:53] <daniels> or was lu just multi-talented?
[03:53] <sivang> jdub: just read your blog posts about aborigni college, and also found about http://craige.mcwhirter.com.au/2005/ubuntu-ldap-client.html , rock :)
[03:53] <fabbione> kernel meeting in 5 minutes on #u-m
[03:54] <seb128> Hwolf: what ?
[03:54] <lu|reading> amu: like I said, I don't like them either :) the important thing mostly is that I have an iso with epiphany, abiword, gnumeric, etc., as defaults. You're certainly welcome to solicit more art yourself.
[03:56] <amu> lu|reading: nope, with just a iso, you can make people afraid using gnome, it needs MAGIC :)   
[03:57] <lu|reading> heh
[03:57] <lu|reading> :)
[03:57] <amu> usability, simplicity .... 
[03:58] <amu> technic is not all 
[03:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: ping?
[03:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: pong
[03:59] <amu> ex. with a ~/Documents ~/Music ~/Photos you make 90% of the possible users so happy 
[03:59] <fabbione> meeting is starting now
[04:00] <Mithrandir> pitti: did you see my question about applying http://arch.err.no/index.cgi/tfheen@idi.ntnu.no--2005/pkg-glibc--multiarch--0--patch-2?cmd=cs_new&file=debian/patches/99_multiarch-ld.dpatch to glibc for hoary?
[04:00] <Mithrandir> pitti: it'll be in sarge, it seems.
[04:00] <lu|reading> amu: I've done some of that (well, i've put it all in ~/Desktop/ so that it is more user-visible at first)
[04:00] <elmo> Mithrandir: come agan?
[04:00] <lu|reading> amu: after I eat and shower I will hopefully do some more
[04:00] <jdub> lu|reading: perhaps in Documents would be better
[04:00] <Mithrandir> elmo: about sarge?  it's just support for it in the loader.
[04:00] <jbailey> elmo: vorlon has approved it.
[04:00] <jbailey> elmo: I just haven't uploaded it for Sarge yet.
[04:01] <Mithrandir> elmo: it's not "split glibc and make people go crackcrackcrack"
[04:01] <Mithrandir> elmo: it's a makefile change only, fwiw.
[04:01] <jbailey> Mithrandir: In fairness, it's a makefile that changes a define, but not in a hideous way.
[04:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: the additional library paths? Yes, I remember
[04:02] <Mithrandir> jbailey: true, but as you say
[04:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: It would be nice to have it in hoary as well, I think.
[04:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: I agree. Does mdz agree?
[04:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: IIRC, he asked me to ask you.
[04:02] <jbailey> pitti: The justification for Sarge is basically that it'll ease multilib backporting work.
[04:02] <Mithrandir> let me look it up in the logs.
[04:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: I have to upload a new glibc soon anyway, so this would be a good opportunity
[04:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: personally I'm fine with the patch
[04:03] <jbailey> pitti: I should dig through the ubuntu package and figure out which pieces ought to be tossed into Sarge, too.
[04:03] <jbailey> Maybe tomorrow night.  I've had a houseguest, so no time for non-work hacking lately.
[04:03] <pitti> jbailey: the only real upstream patch is language support (which I'm fixing right now)
[04:03] <pitti> jbailey: but that probably doesn't fit into Sarge
[04:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: I thought I talked with mdz about it, but evidently not (as I can't find the IRC logs stating it); I can talk to him when he wakes up in a couple of hours.
[04:05] <pitti> ok
[04:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: he should be here by 1600 UTC (meeting)
[04:06] <Mithrandir> yup
[04:06] <Mithrandir> will be fun, considering he went to bad late.
[04:08] <amu> lu|reading: people are strange, i added another wallpager and changed the theme, put some icons on the desktop, now people say the gnoppix is the better one :)  
[04:08] <lu|reading> :)
[04:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: seems like the university has a big investement of time in those kickstart files, so we'll have to get approval; I'll send a mail and Cc you
[04:15] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, if it's going to be a real problem don't push it, I'll get samples elsewhere
[04:15] <dholbach> i'm off... bye
[04:15] <Mithrandir> ok
[04:22] <elmo> fabbione: ?
[04:22] <fabbione> elmo: i am in the meeting
[04:23] <elmo> *shrug* k
[04:23] <fabbione> anything really important?
[04:24] <elmo> no
[04:25] <sivang> elmo: did you fix up the answers for the .il domains eventually? I recall sending you some msg about it in irc, not sure if you got it
[04:25] <sivang> elmo: (from canonical's ns, smurfix's are fine)
[04:26] <trulux> back
[04:26] <trulux> mdz: i will finish the page today, ok?
[04:37] <Kamion> elmo: could you bump the priority of pciutils-udeb and usbutils-udeb to standard, please?
[04:37] <Hwolf> I'm confused. I added a bookmark in the dialog that openoffice uses to open files, and now it appears in places, but my nautilus bookmarks do not. What's the logic behind that?
[04:37] <Kamion> elmo: they need to get installed by default
[04:39] <elmo> Kamion: done
[04:39] <Kamion> thanks
[04:40] <ogra> haggai: i'll leave my desk now to go home, i may be late for the meeting, but i would like to see dholbach approved today, who will be missing too, but he has a (carpenters) hand full of packages already in (amu sponsored bluefish and gparted, i did timer-applet) and he is very much wanting to fix universe bugs....
[04:47] <Kamion> elmo: any idea what's up with http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/20050205/hoary-install-i386.iso giving a 403?
[04:49] <Kamion> elmo: hm, actually, the images seem to just be missing
[04:49] <elmo> Kamion: there's still an ongoing sync
[04:50] <Kamion> from three days ago?
[04:50] <elmo> no
[04:51] <elmo> if it's missing from there, err, I have no idea?  it's just a rsync off whatever's on little?
[04:51] <Kamion> yeah, little looks fine though
[04:51] <Kamion> could you check the permissions for me? it's giving 403 not 404
[04:52] <Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  2333243392 Feb  5 12:33 hoary-install-i386.iso
[04:53] <fabbione> elmo: i will be back in 4 minutes
[04:54] <elmo> -rw-rw-r--    1 archvsync archvsync 2333243392 2005-02-05 12:33 hoary-install-i386.iso
[04:54] <elmo> our apache apparently has LFS issues
[04:54] <Simira> fabbione: the opposite of breakfast?
[04:55] <elmo> [Tue Feb 08 15:47:02 2005]  [error]  [client 81.153.126.219]  (75)Value too large for defined data type: access to /weekly-dvd/20050205/hoary-install-i386.iso failed
[04:55] <sivang> cc meeting is on in about 5 minutes?
[04:56] <Simira> yep
[04:56] <sivang> oh hi Simira !
[04:56] <Simira> hi there :)
[04:56] <sivang> Simira: whassup?
[04:56] <sivang> thom: what made you laugh so abruptely?
[04:57] <dilinger> elmo: ask infinity to fix it.  he loves LFS.
[04:57] <thom> i still have the patch
[04:57] <Simira> sivang: not much. Got a mentor to teach me to do documentations. Starting a translation-team. :)
[04:57] <thom> there's no reason we can't do it on the archive machines, actually
[04:57] <thom> elmo: lfs64 blows the abi of apache2 to hell and back
[04:58] <thom> it's not pretty for external modules
[04:58] <elmo> sigh
[04:58] <thom> (and it's fixed in 2.1/2.2)
[04:58] <sivang> Simira: cool
[04:58] <thom> elmo: but for us, with no external modules, it's not a problem
[04:58] <elmo> what's the schedule (if there is one) for 2.1/2.2 ?
[04:58] <thom> 2.1 is alpha at the moment, should go beta in a few weeks
[04:59] <thom> elmo: it's stable for the core stuff; svn.apache.org runs it
[04:59] <mako> elmo: CC meeting?
[04:59] <mako> sabdfl: ^^^
[05:00] <fabbione> elmo: re
[05:00] <elmo> fabbione: did you do what kamion asked about ext-module on itanium in -15?  i.e. not Provide it in mumblekernel-imagemumble ?
[05:01] <Kamion> yes, he did
[05:01] <fabbione> elmo: yes
[05:01] <elmo> well germinate's screwed then
[05:01] <elmo> or something, bah
[05:01] <Kamion> let me see ...
[05:02] <fabbione> hem
[05:02] <fabbione> Provides: ext2-modules, rtc-modules
[05:02] <fabbione> no
[05:02] <fabbione> wtf..
[05:02] <fabbione> i am sure i did it
[05:03] <Kamion> debian/d-i/ia64/package-list still has the provides
[05:05] <sabdfl> mako, mdz: did we not move to 20h00 UTC?
[05:05] <fabbione> sorry i was 100% sure i did it
[05:05] <mako> sabdfl: not according to the agenda
[05:05] <mako> sabdfl: maybe that was tb meeting
[05:06] <Kamion> that was TB, indeed
[05:08] <elmo> fabbione: even tho you don't deserve it ;-), I ip-limited rsync on auckland
[05:09] <fabbione> elmo: cool! thanks
[05:09] <fabbione> elmo: the sparc buildd was suffering from it
[05:10] <elmo> I also need some "too long, bzzt, you lose" facisim
[05:10] <fabbione> i don't care too much about my local mirror
[05:10] <elmo> there was one slot still running since Feb 4
[05:10] <fabbione> from me?
[05:10] <elmo> no idea who
[05:10] <elmo> they lost out in the switch to xinetd anyway
[05:10] <fabbione> ok
[05:20] <trulux> ajmitch: ping
[05:20] <sivang> hey trulux 
[05:20] <trulux> sivang: hi :)
[05:20] <trulux> anyone here with latex knowledge?
[05:25] <zul> ick...
[05:25] <zul> i rather use microsoft word
[05:27] <tritium> trulux, I use it a lot, but I'm not a guru, exactly.  What's up?
[05:28] <pitti_> trulux: I'm quite good at it
[05:29] <pitti_> zul: hey, LaTeX rocks :-)
[05:29] <trulux> tritium: I'm preparing a paper on proactive security, treating projects and current technologies, and also giving explanations on how some of technologies can be defeated, I'm using a modified IEEETran from Usenix, but I would like to know how to divide the sections like in http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/papers/freenix01/freenix01.html
[05:29] <trulux> when exporting to html
[05:29] <trulux> hey pitti_!!
[05:29] <zul> pitti_, nope it doesnt
[05:29] <trulux> long time no chat
[05:30] <trulux> pitti_: how's your life :)!?
[05:30] <tritium> trulux, okay, I use IEEEtran all the time
[05:30] <pitti_> trulux: busy, but fine 
[05:30] <tritium> let me check the link
[05:30] <trulux> tritium: OK, thanks in advance
[05:30] <trulux> pitti_: we worked out the libssp thingy
[05:30] <trulux> pitti: I ecnourage you to check our wiki, we have moved things and *well* documented *everything*
[05:30] <trulux> pappy- did it
[05:31] <pitti> nice
[05:31] <trulux> so
[05:31] <trulux> we are ready to create the gcc pkgs
[05:31] <trulux> we got some fast machines and so on
[05:31] <trulux> from adobbie's college
[05:31] <tritium> trulux, I don't see anything special about the section divisions.  Just use \section{} and \subsection{}
[05:31] <trulux> tritium: i mean when exporting
[05:33] <tritium> trulux, what are you using to export?
[05:34] <trulux> latex2html -no_subdir -split 0 -show_section_numbers $$i
[05:34] <trulux> from LyX
[05:34] <trulux> -split 0 seems to be the thing, right?
[05:35] <tritium> trulux, I've never exported to html.  I've only prepared .ps or .pdf for publication.
[05:35] <trulux> haha, me too
[05:35] <tritium> pitti, how about you?
[05:35] <trulux> but often users want the click-nd-up thingy
[05:36] <trulux> :)
[05:36] <tritium> I understand.
[05:36] <pitti> tritium: I usually export to PDF with hyperlinks
[05:38] <tritium> trulux, sorry...
[05:38] <trulux> np
[05:38] <trulux> no worries
[05:38] <trulux> let them getting a dvi reader
[05:38] <trulux> :D
[05:39] <tritium> trulux, pdf with hyperlinks is a pretty good option, imho
[05:39] <trulux> ok
[05:39] <trulux> thanks
[05:40] <tritium> trulux, well, I didn't really help, but sure. ;)
[05:42] <jdub> is there a faster (performance) way of listing files in debs?
[05:43] <Treenaks> jdub: ar somemagic | tar someothermagic ?
[05:44] <elmo> dpkg -c is slow?
[05:49] <seb128> raaaaahhh, 
[05:49] <seb128> Uploading via ftp evolution_2.1.5.orig.tar.gz: Error '(32, 'Broken pipe')' during ftp transfer of evolution_2.1.5.orig.tar.gz
[05:49] <seb128> need to scp it again, grrr
[05:50] <sivang> seb128: firewall problems?
[05:51] <elmo> no
[05:51] <elmo> the upload server is broken and can't handle long-running uploads - it's a bug that's being looked at
[05:54] <sivang> elmo: eh
[06:00] <seb128> hate hate hate hate hate hate evolution
[06:01] <sivang> seb128: hehe, well, you're not the only one :)
[06:02] <seb128> every single release is so fucked
[06:03] <seb128> this one has just forgetten all the mails in the spam box
[06:03] <seb128> so I've hundred of spams in my boxes again
[06:03] <sivang> grrrrrrrrrrr
[06:04] <fabbione> who has bugzilla admin rights?
[06:04] <sivang> seb128: why don't you use mutt? (shhh, I hope jdub doesn't hear me) 
[06:04] <crimsun> fabbione: still looking for someone to look at ALSA for kernel?
[06:04] <lamont_r> fabbione: mdz, jdub, dunno who ele
[06:04] <lamont_r> else
[06:04] <seb128> fabbione: elmo and jdub I think
[06:04] <seb128> mdz too
[06:04] <fabbione> crimsun: there was a kernel team meeting.. it is in the todo list
[06:05] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[06:05] <crimsun> fabbione: yes, I saw (after) - I was in a meeting at that time.
[06:05] <fabbione> crimsun: just add yourself as subsystem maintainer
[06:05] <doko> elmo: any chance to add the following packages as build dependencies for gcc-4.0 to main: libmpfr-dev, autogen, typehandling
[06:05] <crimsun> fabbione: ok, just needed to check first.
[06:05] <fabbione> crimsun: irclogs are here: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
[06:06] <crimsun> fabbione: thanks.
[06:07] <elmo> doko: gcc-4.0 isn't in main?
[06:07] <zul> fabbione: ill be around later need to have lunch
[06:07] <fabbione> i need to leave soon 
[06:08] <doko> not yet ... it's a toy for jbailey doing java stuff
[06:08] <zul> k i should be back in half hour
[06:08] <lamont_r> fabbione: so I'll be around for a while...
[06:09] <fabbione> zul: can you manage to stay around for only 10 minutes?
[06:09] <fabbione> so i can end the day?
[06:09] <zul> yeah i cant do that :)
[06:09] <mvo_> doko: typehandling? can't find it here?
[06:10] <fabbione> zul: ok.. i guess we will wait for you than
[06:10] <elmo> doko: well, I can tell you now type-handling has been vetoed for main before
[06:10] <zul> fabbione: im having lunch at my desk go ahead
[06:10] <azeem> mvo_: type-handling
[06:10] <fabbione> zul: ah ok
[06:10] <elmo> doko: but if you want changes to main at this stage, you'll need to mail mdz, jdub and cc me
[06:10] <fabbione> zul, lamont_r: #u-m?
[06:10] <zul> k
[06:11] <mvo_> azeem: thnx
[06:11] <doko> elmo: was there a technical reason for the veto?
[06:12] <elmo> doko: we think type-handling is crack?
[06:13] <jbailey> Debian arch naming for non-Linux arch's in general is crack.  type-handling doesn't add much to the pile. =)  I can see it being crack for Ubuntu, though.
[06:13] <infinity> It's absolutely crack, but it more or less works for now.
[06:14] <Kamion> type-handling's functionality should be merged into dpkg-dev
[06:14] <doko> elmo: hmm, it's even slow crack, but there's not anything better.
[06:14] <thom> http://people.redhat.com/davidz/pwr-mgmt-user.png
[06:14] <doko> Kamion: yes, that would be nice
[06:14] <elmo> doko: *shrug* at the end of the day, I'm not the dude(s) you need to convince
[06:14] <thom> yay someone doing my work for me!
[06:14] <jbailey> Kamion: Sure, but past experience shows that features don't exactl sprint into dpkg. =)
[06:14] <Keybuk> seb128: Secure SMTP is broken again in latest evo
[06:15] <Kamion> jbailey: beat up Keybuk
[06:16] <Keybuk> see, now I'd enjoy that and that'd delay any new features even longer <g>
[06:16] <jbailey> Kamion: In a fair fight, I'm not sure I'd win.
[06:16] <elmo> what kind of idiot fights fair?
[06:16] <elmo> ;-)
[06:16] <jbailey> elmo: That's what my mom told me, too. =)
[06:16] <Keybuk> actually, on that subject Millan was proposing a not-too-bad implementation that got a bit Goswin'd
[06:16] <seb128> Keybuk: ? I'm scping it, it's not uploaded yet ... ??
[06:16] <Keybuk> seb128: ok, not-so-latest evo then
[06:17] <seb128> what's broken ?
[06:18] <Keybuk> with Secure SMTP set to Always, it takes a *very* long time to deliver mail or nearly always times out
[06:18] <Keybuk> even clicking "Check supported types" does that same
[06:18] <Keybuk> but at Never of When Possible it works immediately
[06:18] <seb128> k
[06:18] <infinity> elmo : All apaches has LFS issues.  I could fix it for Ubuntu, but at the cost of becoming gratuitously ABI-incompatible with everyone else, including Debian.
[06:18] <infinity> elmo : Or, we wait for 2.1 :/
[06:18] <seb128> let me know if that happens too with 2.1.5 when it's available
[06:19] <infinity> elmo : For Debian, after attempting the former, we opted for the latter.
[06:19] <jbailey> seb128: Is that due out soon?
[06:19] <seb128> jbailey: I've just dput it
[06:19] <elmo> infinity: yeah, don't worry, thanks - I sorted it with Thom
[06:19] <elmo> infinity: we're going to go crack-tastic on the bleeding edge
[06:19] <infinity> elmo : Just running back through nick hilights. :)
[06:20] <doko> kamion: can you remember a time frame for the discussion?
[06:21] <sivang> Keybuk: here also
[06:22] <infinity> elmo : Ahh, I didn't read enough context.  If it's just an internal project machine, you can blow up apache2 in whatever ways you want, I guess.
[06:22] <thom> 2.1 is more fun tho
[06:22] <Kamion> doko: which discussion?
[06:23] <doko> kamion: "actually, on that subject Millan was proposing a not-too-bad implementation ..."
[06:23] <elmo> infinity: internal?  what fun would that be?  I'm talking about multi-TB a day archive/cdimage/releases.u.c!!
[06:24] <Keybuk> doko: that was me that said that
[06:24] <infinity> elmo : Yes, but that's internal.
[06:24] <infinity> elmo : ie: Not packaged for the archive.
[06:25] <elmo> infinity: oh, right, yeah
[06:25] <elmo> I think uploading apache2.1 to hoary would be fun too, but slightly P45 inducing
[06:25] <infinity> I don't like that kind of fun.
[06:26] <infinity> Tracking upstream SVN commits like a hawk to catch all the security vulns that aren't announced (because no one uses 2.1 in production, right?...) would not be fun at all.
[06:26] <Kamion> nah, just run a daily build! kthxbye
[06:27] <elmo> infinity: that's where having upstream on your admin teams comes in handy
[06:27] <thom> *g*
[06:28] <doko> keybuk: ok, anyway, could you give me pointer to that discussion?
[06:29] <Keybuk> would "http://bugs.debian.org/" be considered too vague a pointer? :p
[06:29] <Kamion> wasn't that on -policy?
[06:30] <Keybuk> #291939
[06:37] <Mithrandir> mdz: I don't remember if I talked with you about multiarch-ed ld-linux.so for hoary, but I couldn't find it in my irc logs.  Would you be against putting http://arch.err.no/index.cgi/tfheen@idi.ntnu.no--2005/pkg-glibc--multiarch--0--patch-2?cmd=cs_new&file=debian/patches/99_multiarch-ld.dpatch in hoary?
[06:37] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's ok with pitti, it'll go into sarge.
[06:41] <sivang> does anybody know if the rosetta mega import tool place already?
[06:41] <sivang> (was said to happen sometime this week)
[06:42] <pitti> mvo_: 
[06:42] <pitti> mvo_: ping
[06:44] <mvo_> pitti: pong
[06:44] <pitti> mvo_: there seems to be a bug in your automatic changelog generation
[06:45] <pitti> mvo_: rookery: /home/mvo/public_html/changelogs/pool/universe/f/fireflier/fireflier_1.1.4-3/changelog -> ../changelog
[06:45] <pitti> mvo_: however, ../changelog does not exist
[06:45] <infinity> Moving is teh suck.
[06:45] <infinity> -EWIN
[06:46] <mvo_> pitti: thanks, I'll have a look
[06:47] <pitti> mvo_: in addition, are the changelogs cleaned up from time to time?
[06:48] <mvo_> not yet
[06:48] <pitti> mvo_: there are lots of changelogs which don't have a corresponding source package any more
[06:49] <pitti> mvo_: I abuse your changelog collection to produce ^
[06:50] <pitti> mdz: ^ this could interest you as well, I automatically generate an overview over all fixed CANs in Ubuntu
[06:50] <pitti> mdz: it's still very rough and needs some work, but it will be helpful for doing reviews
[06:51] <mdz> morning
[06:51] <pitti> Morning mdz
[06:51] <mvo_> pitti: I'll move the changelog generation to changelogs.ubuntu.com in the next few days and I'll have a look at the cleaning then
[06:51] <mvo_> I'll ping you
[06:51] <pitti> mvo_: cool
[06:51] <mvo_> morning mdz
[06:54] <mvo_> pitti: packages.d.o does not clean the changelogs too. the synaptic changelogs directory is amazingly long :)
[06:54] <pitti> mvo_: I will work around this anyway, I think
[06:55] <pitti> mvo_: I will look which version is in each release and directly try to grab the respective version
[06:55] <pitti> mvo_: above page is only the very first try :-)
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion, haggai, amu: #ubuntu-meeting?
[06:55] <thom> daniels: AAAAAAARGH
[06:55] <pitti> mvo_: when does the cronjob run?
[06:56] <thom> firefox xkb bug
[06:56] <thom> daniels: #6301
[06:56] <mvo_> pitti: once per night. it would be cooler if it could be integrated into the archive processing scripts so that the changelog becomes available at once. but I don't thing it's easy to do (might be when the integration into launchpad gets better)
[06:57] <pitti> mvo_: I'd like to eventually set this up as a cronjob, too
[06:57] <mvo_> we can ask elmo if we can run the script two times a day
[06:57] <pitti> mvo_: however, it should run shortly after yours
[06:57] <pitti> mvo_: that's why I'm asking for the exact time
[06:57] <mvo_> I can write out a stamp file that you can check on if you want
[06:58] <pitti> hmm, that's probably too complicated
[06:58] <mvo_> pitti: 04:30 right now
[06:58] <pitti> mvo_: okay, then I just run mine at 06:00
[06:58] <mvo_> ok
[06:59] <kent> is there problems with X/gnome/keyboard/mouse in recent Hoary? My mouse dont respond after a few seconds, and neither the keyboard, sort of (i can change to virtual terminals..). Since my computer is crazy, im having problems looking at bugzilla. i just got xchat working, and i can atleast type in this window since it got fucus on startup.
[07:06] <thom> ifeq ($*,foo) is *always* false; why? :/
[07:07] <pitti> thom: isn't $* a list?
[07:07] <sivang> seb128: is gnome-control-center has it's menubar/about dialog disabled due to libgnomeui::gnome-about dependency? or was it to integrate with the ubuntu desktop?
[07:07] <pitti> thom: oh, this is Makefile syntax?
[07:07] <sivang> seb128: (I see code for an about dialog, but can't find it when exploring the gui)
[07:07] <thom> pitti: yes, make
[07:07] <jordi> speaking of mako
[07:07] <jordi> mako: did the bastards give you the money?
[07:09] <seb128> sivang: I don't get the question, what menubar ?
[07:10] <sivang> seb128: well, sorry, maybe it doesn't have a menu bar, but how can I open it's about dialog (it's in control-center.c) ?
[07:10] <seb128> there is no about box in the capplets
[07:11] <seb128> if that's the question
[07:11] <sivang> seb128: right, but I mean for the main one which lists them, the control center itself
[07:11] <seb128> there is no about box
[07:12] <ogra> sivang: control center has no app win....has it ? i thought thats nautilus.....
[07:12] <sivang> ogra: it is?
[07:12] <seb128> no, nautilus or shell during 2.8
[07:12] <seb128> now it uses only the shell
[07:13] <seb128> (the vfolder code is a 2.8 stuff)
[07:13] <ogra> ah, k
[07:13] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, thanks , that explain stuff
[07:14] <sivang> seb128: then that code should probably be removed sometime in the future, if it's not used at all. (control-center-2.9.4/control-center)
[07:14] <seb128> patches are welcome 
[07:17] <sivang> seb128: sure , as always :)
[07:18] <seb128> yeah, I don't know this part of the code
[07:18] <seb128> but if you think that there is some ugly part of code upstream please send a patch
[07:21] <lamont_r> are the mailing lists archived anywhere web-accessible>
[07:21] <lamont_r> ?
[07:21] <sivang> seb128: sure, I'll have to figure out un doubtfully which parts are redundent, if I do , I'll offer a patch.
[07:21] <seb128> thanks
[07:22] <seb128> lamont_r: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ ?
[07:23] <thully> hi - I wondered if anyone has loooked into bug #5981 - a fairly major bug with the live CD
[07:23] <lamont_r> seb128: doh
[07:24] <thully> on my laptop, it gives me trouble if I'm not in range of wi-fi (by continuously prompting me for an ESSID and forcing me to back out to the installer main menu, which leaves no loopback configured
[07:25] <thully> (the no loopback configured is a separate bug I've reported, #2835)
[07:27] <zenwhen> can a question about hoary be answered her. No one in #ubuntu will answer me.
[07:27] <zenwhen> here*
[07:28] <seb128> lamont_r: not what you are looking for ?
[07:29] <zenwhen> Is there a method of editing the gnome menu in hoary?
[07:29] <lamont_r> seb128: exactly what I was looking for
[07:29] <seb128> lamont_r: k
[07:30] <Mithrandir> zenwhen: no
[07:30] <zenwhen> Oh
[07:30] <zenwhen> Back to warty
[07:31] <Mithrandir> zenwhen: or, you have to edit the .desktop files
[07:31] <lamont_r> T-Gone: ubuntu pop-con uses HTTP post
[07:40] <sivang> crimsun: ping
[07:40] <zenwhen> is gnome-panel-screenshot broken?
[07:42] <seb128> no
[07:42] <zenwhen> oh
[07:42] <zenwhen> well it stoppe working for me when I upgraded to hoary
[07:42] <seb128> so that's not a question ?
[07:43] <zenwhen> what
[07:43] <seb128> define "stoppe working" ?
[07:43] <zenwhen> There was an error running "gnome-panel-screenshot":
[07:43] <zenwhen> Failed to execute child process "gnome-panel-screenshot" (No such file or directory).
[07:43] <ogra> doesnt look broken....missing rather....
[07:44] <seb128> is gnome-utils installed ?
[07:44] <zenwhen> As in, it is not there.
[07:44] <zenwhen> yes
[07:44] <zenwhen> but apparently it didnt get upgraded
[07:44] <seb128> should not
[07:44] <seb128> dpkg -l gnome-utils
[07:45] <seb128> dpkg -L gnome-utils | grep screenshot
[07:45] <ogra> zenwhen: do you have all necessary meta packages installed before the upgrade ?
[07:45] <ogra> i.e. ubuntu-desktop
[07:47] <ogra> seb128: you took 5870 ? 
[07:47] <Mithrandir> hmm; why have we aggregated all of linux-restricted-modules again?
[07:47] <zenwhen> ogra, yes I had ubuntu-desktop installed
[07:47] <ogra> seb128: feel free to drop test packages at me.....amd64 here
[07:47] <zenwhen> it appaears that some gnome packages were just not upgraded
[07:47] <zenwhen> I can upgade them
[07:47] <Kamion> thully: no, I have not yet had time to look into that, because I am busy doing all the things I need to have done before feature freeze; bug fixes come later
[07:47] <seb128> ogra: I run a i386 distro
[07:48] <seb128> ogra: ping Mithrandir about amd64 issues
[07:48] <seb128> zenwhen: 
[07:48] <zenwhen> Also gnome-desktop-environment is not installed
 dpkg -l gnome-utils
 dpkg -L gnome-utils | grep screenshot
[07:48] <ogra> seb128:  #5870: AssignedTo|debzilla@ubuntu.com         |seb128@ubuntu.com 
[07:48] <zenwhen> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[07:48] <zenwhen> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
[07:48] <zenwhen> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[07:48] <zenwhen> ||/ Name           Version        Description
[07:48] <zenwhen> +++-[07:48] <zenwhen> ii  gnome-utils    2.8.1-0ubuntu1 GNOME desktop utilities
[07:49] <zenwhen> from the first
[07:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: I guess you want to force me to fix evo on amd64 now?
[07:49] <zenwhen> and the second gives no resonse
[07:49] <seb128> zenwhen: oh, update it
[07:49] <seb128> ogra: tristan.tarrant@dataforte.net  	2005-02-08 16:57 UTC  	AssignedTo  	debzilla@ubuntu.com  	seb128@ubuntu.com
[07:49] <ogra> Mithrandir: nah, i wont force anyone
[07:49] <zenwhen> gnome-desktop-environment is not installed
[07:49] <seb128> ogra: dunno why this guy changed the bug
[07:49] <zenwhen> could that be my issue?
[07:49] <zenwhen> it also refuses to be installed
[07:49] <ogra> seb128: ah, k, blind me....
[07:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: I started to look into it,  but got diverted, actually
[07:50] <seb128> zenwhen: the screenshoot stuff has move from panel to utils
[07:50] <zenwhen> oh
[07:50] <seb128> zenwhen: you need to upgrade gnome-utils
[07:50] <zenwhen> what is gnome-desktop-envoronment?
[07:50] <seb128> a meta package
[07:50] <zenwhen> is it some metapackage?
[07:50] <seb128> don't bother with it in ubuntu
[07:50] <ogra> Mithrandir: i was just a little confused because the bug seemed assigned to seb128 now....and since i know he has no amd64 i wanted to offer my testing machine ;)
[07:50] <seb128> it's not updated
[07:50] <zenwhen> oh ok
[07:50] <zenwhen> It was freaking me out
[07:51] <Mithrandir> ogra: let me dist-upgrade my amd64 box and I'll see if I can track it down easily.
[07:51] <seb128> Mithrandir: you said that's due to a mutex issue with libdb, isn't it ?
[07:51] <zenwhen> thanks for the help seb128. 
[07:51] <seb128> np
[07:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes, but once I fixed that, it started falling over with some other error
[07:52] <seb128> oh, ok :/
[07:57] <mdz> NO
[07:57] <mdz> someone reformatted GraphicalInstaller back to reFux0redText
[07:58] <ogra> mdz: doesnt just switching it back help ? helps mostly for me...
[07:58] <Kamion> mdz: however the formatting actually works now ;) it was broken when I looked at it yesterday
[07:58] <mdz> ogra: switching the radio button does not reformat the text
[07:58] <mdz> Kamion: really? what was wrong?
[07:58] <mdz> it looked fine to me
[07:58] <ogra> mdz: you mean the guy really chaned the content ? ouch....
[07:59] <Kamion> mdz: the *-prefixed paragraphs were all screwed; the second and subsequent lines looked like a separate paragraph and were indented by a tab
[07:59] <dholbach> hai
[07:59] <mdz> Kamion: oh, that.  I was going to fix that; it was ugly but I wouldn't call it broken
[07:59] <mdz> he could have deleted the whitespace instead of reformatting the entire document
[07:59] <Kamion> heh
[08:08] <zenwhen> raise da roof
[08:08] <zenwhen> oops
[08:09] <zenwhen> also is the gnome panel volume applet just a small line for anyone else?
[08:10] <seb128> no
[08:11] <zenwhen> well thats because I am a huge dummy
[08:11] <zenwhen> thanks
[08:11] <zenwhen> :)
[08:11] <zenwhen> it was another thing that didnt get upgraded
[08:12] <zenwhen> I should do a clean install sometime. I really f'd this up.
[08:17] <zul> later
[08:17] <zul> T-Bone: did you have a look at the logs for #u-m?
[08:18] <T-Bone> zul: went back too late
[08:18] <zul> okies..
[08:18] <T-Bone> zul: i guess you guys talked while i wasn't online
[08:18] <zul> T-Bone: people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[08:20] <zul> later
[08:20] <lamont_r> Kamion: did you need me to look at a package or something?
[08:21] <Kamion> lamont_r: dholbach's coaster package ... review for whether it's enough for Ubuntu membership
[08:21] <Kamion> (note: not maintainership - not asking you to sponsor it in or anything either, just let me know if it's sane or not :))
[08:23] <zenwhen> oh
[08:23] <T-Bone> lamont_r: ok got in sync with what was said. Anything special I should be aware of? I've looked at the kernel package, it's significantly different from the Debian one, but that's something i can deal with, afaict ;)
[08:24] <zenwhen> I upgraded gnome volume manager on accident and now I cant mount my mp3 player autmatically. Hoary isnt going too well for me.
[08:24] <zenwhen> L(
[08:24] <dholbach> Kamion: the coaster package will still need some love :-(
[08:24] <Kamion> dholbach: yeah, that's fine
[08:25] <Kamion> I just didn't have time to review it so sabdfl asked me to get someone I trusted on the distro team to have a look
[08:25] <dholbach> Kamion: you'd better review one of the other packages - timer-applet, gparted and bluefish already are in ubuntu
[08:25] <Kamion> lamont_r: if you don't have time, no problem, I'll ask somebody else
[08:26] <ogra> Kamion: gparted would be a better candidate, since it is already in a releasable state
[08:26] <dholbach> hi ogra
[08:26] <thom> fabbione: if you can nail down why kacpid spins on hp laptops, that'd be sweet ;-)
[08:26] <ogra> and its a missing thing for gnome as well 
[08:26] <Kamion> lamont_r: ^-
[08:26] <T-Bone> i have to figure out what's wrong with d-i on ia64 too, but I'll need help. Something has been changed that fucked up everything ;-/
[08:31] <zenwhen> newest volume manager/hal/dbus doesnt mount my mp3 player anymore.
[08:31] <zenwhen> lol
[08:34] <lamont_r> Kamion: I should be able to do it
[08:35] <Kamion> thanks, much appreciated
[08:39] <dholbach> lamont_r: you can find it on    deb-src http://ubuntu.gplan.info hoary main
[08:39] <dholbach> lamont_r: it's the one, i would let someone else upload :-)
[08:41] <dholbach> lamont_r: there's another bug that got fixed in upstream's cvs, which i'll package (right after dinner :-))
[08:41] <Mithrandir> hmm, could I have a quick poll; how many files do you have in ~?  (If you're the only user, df -hi /home is probably the quickest way to check.)
[08:42] <lamont_r>  dev/hda9               7.5M    636K    6.9M    9% /home
[08:43] <ogra> /dev/hda3               7,9M     86K    7,8M    2% /home
[08:43] <lamont_r> dholbach: 403
[08:43] <lamont_r> what's the package name?
[08:43] <ogra> gparted
[08:44] <zenwhen> ogra, would it be worthwhile to file a big report about the fact that my muvo 2 doesnt automount or even appear in fdisk after upgrading hal?
[08:44] <dholbach> lamont_r: yes.. it's a *very* silly webserver, but my router has a slow upload only
[08:44] <dholbach> lamont_r: apt-get source gparted    should work nicely though
[08:45] <ogra> zenwhen: did you look if there probably already is one ?
[08:45] <Mithrandir> hm, ok, I guess we should have some sort of "please wait while we scan your home directory.  This might take some time"
[08:45] <zenwhen> oh
[08:45] <zenwhen> ok
[08:46] <zenwhen> I currently hate my computer. lol
[08:46] <zenwhen> I havent been this annoyed since my first week running slackware.
[08:47] <rubenv> eh wtf
[08:47] <rubenv> df -hi renders me this:
[08:47] <rubenv>  /dev/hda3                  0       0       0    -  /
[08:47] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: mind you, those of us here are probably not a representative sample...
[08:47] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: nah, but it's not ok for something to hang for > 5 seconds without any kind of feedback, imho.
[08:47] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: and scanning a 4-5-600k file ~ might take minutes on a laptop drive.
[08:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: did you see my question wrt ld-linux multiarch patching?
[08:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: no, I haven't read scrollback yet this morning
[08:49] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: speaking of which... if I have a utf-8 encoded file, how to I convert that to iso-8859-1?  or windoze cp1252 or some other thing?
[08:49] <mdz> jdub: yes, I have a machine with both an (ATA) DVD-ROM and a (USB) DVD writer
[08:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: there's a patch which adds the /lib/$DEB_BUILD_ARCH and /usr/lib/$DEB_BUILD_ARCH paths to the default search paths for ld-linux.  Would it be ok with you to add it to hoary?
[08:49] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: convert the contents?  iconv -f utf8 -t iso-8859-1 < file > file.iso8859-1 should work
[08:49] <mdz> trulux: we are very close to the deadline; the sooner I have that list, the better the chances we can implement most of it
[08:49] <zenwhen> is the gnome volume applet is gnome-applets
[08:49] <zenwhen> in*
[08:50] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: cool - was more after the command name so i could hit man, but that's even better.  tahnks
[08:50] <mdz> fabbione: what do you need in bugzilla?
[08:50] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: recode is another tool which does the same.
[08:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: looking at the patch
[08:51] <trulux> mdz: I need to get ajmitch online
[08:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: fwiw, pitti is fine with it, it's going into sarge (approved by vorlon; jbailey will upload once he gets around to it)
[08:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: fine with me, on condition that it's in before feature freeze
[08:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'll see to that.
[08:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: thanks a lot.
[08:52] <Mithrandir> what TZ is feature freeze in?  hawaii?
[08:52] <lamont_r> jdub about?
[08:54] <lamont_r> Mithrandir:  shouldbe the same TZ as we release in...
[08:55] <lamont_r> dholbach: cdbs and autocrap... DENIED.:-)
[08:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: UTC
[08:55] <lamont_r> although cdbs is better than dbs...
[08:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: though we haven't specified what time of day it begins :-)
[08:55] <lamont_r> dholbach: heh
[08:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: heh, ok.  I'll talk to pitti when he gets online tomorrow and get him to get it in then.  He had an upload pending already
[08:56] <dholbach> lamont_r: but i share your view on abusing auto*
[08:57] <lamont_r> I don't mind autocrap, it just frustrates me
[08:58] <lamont_r> in debian/rules, did you grab that version assignment from somewhere, or is it your own creation?
[08:58] <dholbach> lamont_r: it frustrates me when auto* does stuff, {pre,post}{inst,rm} should be doing, that's why coaster needs a bit 
[08:58] <dholbach> lamont_r: to be honest... i nicked it
[08:58] <lamont_r> yeah
[08:58] <dholbach> of seb128 :-)
[08:59] <lamont_r> well, it is a gnome package... :-)
[08:59] <lamont_r> what led to the cdbs decision?
[09:00] <dholbach> lamont_r: i found them to be a lot more readable
[09:00] <lamont_r> I find them to be terse in the extreme - but then I haven't bothered to dig into cdbs much at all
[09:00] <dholbach> lamont_r: and they included lots of defaults regarding gconf, mime-stuff, ...
[09:01] <dholbach> lamont_r: from what i saw,   debian/rules  with cdbs seemed to be more maintainable to me
[09:01] <dholbach> maybe not in all cases
[09:02] <lamont_r> it probably is.
[09:02] <dholbach> lamont_r: if i have a "general point of view" on this, i'll let you know ;-)
[09:04] <lamont_r> Kamion: is there anything that would vary in the daily build that would make debian-installer-manual differ from the prior daily build?
[09:20] <ajmitch> morning
[09:24] <ajmitch> trulux: around?
[09:25] <trulux> ajmitch: sure!!
[09:25] <marcin_ant> hello - any Eclipse user here?
[09:25] <trulux> ajmitch: todo list work now, right?
[09:25] <ajmitch> trulux: ok, I just crawled out of bed again, so let's get to work
[09:26] <trulux> ajmitch: great, we want mdz smiling at us :)
[09:26] <trulux> we promised it!
[09:27] <ajmitch> mdz: what info do you want?
[09:27] <trulux> ajmitch: we need first to get the status of the package ans their versions in hoary
[09:27] <trulux> ajmitch: and then write what needs each one of them
[09:27] <ajmitch> well that's easy enough :)
[09:27] <marcin_ant> I have a problem with Eclipse SWT browser in Ubuntu - could anyone help me with this?
[09:28] <ajmitch> that can be divided into selinux tools & policy, and ubuntu packages such as coreutils
[09:28] <trulux> I was preparing all the afternoon a paper on these things, so, soon I will make it available and those who want to know further on Hardened Debian scould read it (it's more a general paper, but has *many* info. on the things we are trying to deply in Debian and Ubuntu)
[09:28] <trulux> ajmitch: right
[09:28] <trulux> ajmitch: we need latest libselinux
[09:28] <trulux> and fixed policy package
[09:29] <trulux> write that in the page, I dunno on how to make tables in that wiki
[09:29] <ajmitch> 'fixed' policy is our job, once we get a recent debian policy
[09:29] <trulux> yeah
[09:29] <trulux> and
[09:29] <trulux> we need to get the PAM patched and updated
[09:29] <trulux> add that too
[09:30] <ajmitch> pam, dpkg, sysvinit, coreutils
[09:30] <mdz> ajmitch: what we need is a list of changes that would be needed in Hoary to support selinux
[09:30] <ajmitch> ssh currently doesn't need it
[09:30] <mdz> ajmitch: it is unlikely that we will be able to implement all of them, but if we can make your efforts easier by getting some of the patches into hoary, we will
[09:30] <mdz> but it must be before feature freeze (tomorrow)
[09:30] <ajmitch> mdz: alright
[09:30] <ajmitch> ah
[09:32] <ajmitch> mdz: if the main packages are in hoary, I'll still be able to upload fixed poolicy to universe for awhile?
[09:34] <trulux> ajmitch: don't bother with policy now
[09:34] <trulux> go ahead with core packages
[09:35] <trulux> we need first to have selinux supported
[09:35] <trulux> after we can work the policy
[09:35] <trulux> ok?
[09:35] <Kyaneos> hi
[09:36] <mdz> ajmitch: yes, certainly
[09:36] <sivang> mdz: regarding 6092, the decision is to move it out of the gui right? (just to make sure)
[09:36] <mdz> we're pretty flexible about universe with regard to the release process
[09:36] <mdz> sivang: yes
[09:36] <sivang> mdz: cool, then I will do it.
[09:37] <mdz> thanks
[09:38] <sivang> mdz: my pleasure, we need this done before the clock hits tommorow UTC? (ff) or can we be more relaxed with realtively minor code change like this?
[09:39] <trulux> ajmitch: so, what do you want to do today?
[09:40] <trulux> I think i can't handle the package building today
[09:40] <ajmitch> trulux: I'm adding stuff in the wiki
[09:40] <ajmitch> trulux: do you have URL for coreutils patch? rjc's sysvinit patch works fine
[09:41] <trulux> ajmitch: yes, lemme dig
[09:41] <ajmitch> ah found it
[09:42] <trulux> ajmitch: ok
[09:42] <trulux> a guy from debian did a 5.2.1 pkg
[09:42] <trulux> with se support
[09:44] <ajmitch> trulux: yes, http://people.debian.org/~adric/selinux/coreutils/
[09:44] <ajmitch> he put the URL in README.Debian
[09:47] <ajmitch> mdz: you don't want to change the pam version in ubuntu, correct?
[09:47] <bob2> haha
[09:48] <ajmitch> trulux: have you lookde at applying the pam patch against the hoary version?
[09:50] <trulux> ajmitch: it didn't apply
[09:50] <trulux> ajmitch: I just grabbed Russell's PAM
[09:50] <ajmitch> that's a pain
[09:51] <trulux> yes
[09:52] <ajmitch> I'll give it a go
[09:53] <trulux> ok
[09:53] <trulux> about the policy
[09:53] <trulux> we should use the standard debian config. for packages
[09:53] <trulux> and make a selectable list of programs
[09:53] <trulux> so
[09:54] <trulux> it will be more like pressing [intro]  than answering that large amount of annoying questions
[09:56] <ajmitch> I've got some ideas for reworking policy
[09:56] <Mithrandir> yay, it's now possible to change the suggested renaming in utf8migrationtool
[09:56] <ajmitch> ok, only 2 rejects in the pam code
[09:56] <trulux> ajmitch: what ones?
[09:57] <ajmitch> pam_unix/Makefile & pam_unix/support.c
[09:57] <ajmitch> seeing what I can fix now
[09:59] <trulux> ok
[09:59] <trulux> Makefile one should be easy
[09:59] <trulux> support.c one could be not, how it looks?
[10:00] <ajmitch> easy enough
[10:02] <trulux> ok
[10:02] <sivang> mdz: never mind, I'm working on it now
[10:02] <zenwhen> wow
[10:02] <zenwhen> I got my mp3 player to autmount again. Congrats on making it so that one can unmount a usb hard drive without closing out nautilus.
[10:02] <zenwhen> :)
[10:05] <jbailey> lamont-away: Bah, are you anbother cdbs hater? =)
[10:06] <lamont-away> jbailey: I like to actually look at a makefile and see what it's doing...
[10:06] <lamont-away> but that's just me...
[10:07] <doko> elmo: please could you install automake1.9 autogen libmpfr-dev chrpath on davis/hoary?
[10:07] <lamont-away> but tell me that cdbs is not just dbs re-done in C...  please...
[10:07] <jbailey> lamont-away: No, at the moment it's done in make.  Just follow the includes.
[10:07] <jbailey> lamont-away: cdbs2 is glued onto shell to make it easier for people to read / add modules.
[10:07] <lamont-away> jbailey: but it has no relation to dbs other than the last 3 characters, true?
[10:07] <jbailey> lamont-away: Sadly the finer points of GNU Make are lost on most people.
[10:07] <Mithrandir> lamont-away: true
[10:08] <lamont-away> jbailey: including me - it's on my list of things to actually read up on.
[10:08] <mdz> ajmitch: if we are to update pam, it would require review
[10:08] <jbailey> lamont-away: More or less.  dbs is Doogie's Build System.  cdbs is Common Debian Build System.  There is a 'tarball.mk' module in cdbs to provide dbs-type functionality.
[10:08] <lamont-away> I learned make back in the boat anchor days, when a vax 11/750 was considered a resonable size machine, and your net-worth was determined by how few !'s you had in your email address....
[10:08] <ajmitch> mdz: the patch on rjc's page applies with only a couple of simple rejections, I'm just building it now
[10:09] <mdz> ajmitch: great, thanks
[10:09] <lamont-away> jbailey: dbs is crackful.  cdbs got lumped in with that in my mind some time ago, and I'm still trying to overcome that
[10:09] <jbailey> lamont-away: I hear you.  Anyhow, that's why cdbs2 is being done in shell.  The only truly awful parts are a couple of the shell functions and the 10 lines of make->shell glue.
[10:09] <elmo> doko: done
[10:10] <doko> elmo: thanks
[10:10] <jbailey> The rest of it should be understandable by the average monkey.
[10:10] <jbailey> lamont-away: If you have any cdbs questions, just lemme know.  I have a nick highlight on it, so I usually see it. =)
[10:10] <sivang> jbailey: what more features are in cdbs2 ? will it have proper documentation? :)
[10:11] <trulux> ajmitch: good job
[10:11] <jbailey> sivang: Yes.  The important one is the ability to do 'debian/rules help' and get a sane list of what's going on.
[10:12] <jbailey> sivang: The other major thing is that internally it's a set of hooks and dependancies.  Right now there are some cases where the includes have to be done in a certain order to get the right functionality.  That's all solved.
[10:13] <ajmitch> jbailey: how functional is cdbs2 at the moment?
[10:13] <lamont-away> jbailey: cool!
[10:13] <jbailey> ajmitch: Not self-hosting.
[10:14] <jbailey> ajmitch: I've written a good chunk of shell helper functions, which I'm thinking of refactoring off to a separate package.
[10:14] <ajmitch> fun
[10:14] <jbailey> Because noone should ever have to implement associative arrays in pure posh-compliant posix shell again. =)
[10:14] <elmo> jbailey: err, cdbs2 is starting to sound more and more like dbs.. no offence :p
[10:15] <sivang> jbailey: wow that's cool
[10:15] <elmo> if it's that complex maybe you should just make the jump to a real scripting language
[10:15] <ajmitch> jbailey: it sounds like you've been dabbling in evil again
[10:16] <jbailey> elmo: I've wished for it a few times, but the advantage of pure posix shell is that I know it's on the system, and it's not perl.
[10:17] <infinity> jbailey : What, you didn't write it in shoop?
[10:18] <trulux> tritium: ping
[10:18] <tritium> trulux, yes?
[10:18] <trulux> tritium: Package longtable Error: longtable not in 1-column mode.
[10:18] <trulux>  \begin{longtable}
[10:18] <trulux>                        {|c|c|}
[10:18] <trulux> Try typing  <return>  to proceed.
[10:18] <trulux> If that doesn't work, type  X <return>  to quit.
[10:18] <trulux> :(
[10:19] <trulux> with LyX
[10:19] <tritium> trulux, eww, lyx ;)
[10:20] <trulux> haha
[10:21] <trulux> tritium: any hint?
[10:21] <tritium> trulux, /msg me
[10:21] <AndyR> lo all
[10:21] <trulux> tritium: ok
[10:22] <Mithrandir> does anybody have an idea why my (pygtk) scrolledwindow refuses to expand vertically?
[10:28] <mvo_> Mithrandir: do you have the code somewhere to checkout/look? is it glade based?
[10:28] <Mithrandir> yes, glade based.
[10:28] <mvo_> what widget to you embedd in the scrolled window?
[10:29] <Mithrandir> mvo_: a treeview
[10:30] <Mithrandir> it's my first pygtk project, so don't laugh at me doing silly stuff. :P
[10:30] <mvo_> no worry :) 
[10:30] <mvo_> what file is it?
[10:30] <Mithrandir> just run python utf8migrationtool and then click "next two times".
[10:31] <Mithrandir> uhm "next" two times.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> it won't change anything yet.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> make sure you have some files in ~/Desktop with non-ascii, non-utf8 chars in them so you get some entries in the list
[10:38] <Mithrandir> mvo_: any ideas?
[10:39] <mvo_> no really good one yet, it looks like a expand is missing somewhere
[10:41] <Mithrandir> the glade file looks right to me, and I can't get anywhere by prodding expand_children in the code.
[10:42] <zenwhen> has anyone else been having connection problems to MSN?
[10:42] <mvo_> yes, the glade file looks fine
[10:42] <trulux> ajmitch: how is it going?
[10:42] <Mithrandir> zenwhen: yes, they are having problems, use jabber
[10:43] <zenwhen> oh
[10:43] <zenwhen> no one uses jabber
[10:43] <ajmitch> hah
[10:43] <zenwhen> I can't vonvince my friends to switch a chat network that none of their friends use.
[10:43] <zenwhen> lol
[10:43] <zenwhen> con*
[10:44] <jbailey> zenwhen: Most geeks I know use jabber, most others use msn.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> zenwhen: please, we're not interested in whether MSN has problems or not; it's not related to ubuntu development, so offtopic here.
[10:45] <zenwhen> most of my friends use aim, but most GIRLS i know use MSN, and this is causing me to be very sad. :'(
[10:45] <zenwhen> Mithrandir, what?
[10:45] <zenwhen> It just started when I upgraded gaim
[10:45] <sivang> zenwhen: yes, we should drop our account nad use jabber
[10:45] <zenwhen> to the newest version in hoary
[10:47] <sivang> zenwhen: it's probably b0rked in some way...
[10:47] <Mithrandir> gaim in hoary works fine
[10:48] <Mithrandir> it's the servers that are b0rked now; down.
[10:48] <zenwhen> ok
[10:48] <sivang> Mithrandir: I thought so  , but didn't dare to say, it's almost always their server which are down :)
[10:50] <mvo_> Mithrandir: sorry, I played a bit with it and my idea is vague at best. it looks like your wizard_convertfiles glade stuff that you embedd into the main wizards window does not get more space from the main application window 
[10:51] <Mithrandir> mvo_: any idea how to fix that?
[10:54] <Mithrandir> mvo_: nevermind, I fixed it
[10:55] <mvo_> how?
[10:56] <mvo_> ^^--- Mithrandir 
[11:00] <crimsun> sivang: pong (sorry, meetings)
[11:05] <Nafallo> hi all. something loading early use drm, so fglrx can't load. I'll consider this a bug, but I don't know what I should sign the bug against. anyone else seeing this?
[11:05] <Nafallo> amd64 btw
[11:06] <thom> Mithrandir: WHY IS DEFAULT MAIL IN CHUNDERBIRD HTML?
[11:07] <bob2> fix it
[11:07] <bob2> thom: it = ubuntu
[11:08] <infinity> thom : Please fix it, yes.  HTML mail is vile.
[11:09] <thom> nothing to do with me
[11:09] <jbailey> We have a package called 'nagios-plugins' in main.  What's a better name for its companion in universe: 'nagios-plugins-extra' or 'nagios-extra-plugins'.  The first seems more obvious, the second more grammatically correct.
[11:09] <thom> Mithrandir maintains t-bird
[11:09] <infinity> thom : Well, make him fix it, then. :)
[11:09] <sivang> crimsun: ah no it's ok, did you notice gtk-gnutella is broken? it's missing it's /usr/bin/whatever
[11:10] <sivang> crimsun: I installed the pkg and saw it didn't have the binary
[11:10] <dholbach> jbailey: i vote for the first one - who these day look grammar after? ;-)
[11:10] <jdub> mdz: ping
[11:10] <jbailey> dholbach: Mmm.  The truth you speak, young skywalker.
[11:10] <crimsun> sivang: I did, and I will work on it this evening after classes
[11:11] <dholbach> jbailey: LOL 
[11:11] <sivang> crimsun: ok cool :) 
[11:11] <crimsun> sivang: a patch is attached to 5799, so I'll confirm it and send it to MOTU for approval
[11:11] <sivang> crimsun: great! (I missed it since it got b0rked)
[11:14] <sivang> mdz: from going over the users-admin gui again (as per 6092) I see that this option is also available when adding a new user (automatically inceremneted per each new user) should I remove it comletely? even when adding a new user? or maybe just make this field unchangable? (and leave it when modifying a user)
[11:24] <trulux> mdz: ping
[11:28] <Kamion> lamont-away: I made some changes to the manual recently; I expect it's that
[11:29] <zul> hey
[11:31] <trulux> hey zul
[11:31] <trulux> zul zul zul
[11:31] <trulux> :)
[11:31] <ajmitch> hello zul 
[11:32] <zul> hey trulux/ajmitch
[11:33] <jbailey> What is the bug state of 'remind' used for?  The docs don't seem to mention it.  I have some stuff that I need to put together and send off to Debian, but it can wait a day or two.  'remind' sounds like the type of thing I might want.
[11:33] <zul> jbailey: kind of like i cant work on it on now by remind me later
[11:33] <trulux> ajmitch: I'm trying to make a table with organized heck of pkgs and such in the SELinux page
[11:34] <ajmitch> trulux: good
[11:35] <jbailey> zul: Tx.
[11:37] <jbailey> sivang: Mmm, something annoying that I'm hacking on just reminded me of the other thing that cdbs2 does different:  Integrated multbuild.  Basically you define how many pases over the source code you want to make, and it does those.  Then for the packaging phase, it iterates of the package list.
[11:38] <jbailey> sivang: Right now doing the build stuff by the package list doesn't make any sense, and it's hard to make sure that something happens at the right time with the arch and indep targets done the way they are.
[11:38] <jdub> seb128, Mithrandir: should we get the new gaim in hoary?
[11:38] <jdub> seb128, Mithrandir: lots of fixes
[11:38] <seb128> I think so
[11:38] <seb128> jdub: are you going to update the new gtk-engines ?
[11:38] <jbailey> sivang: You'll still be able to hook on arch and indep, but it generally won't be the right thing to do.
[11:39] <jdub> seb128: if you want me to :)
[11:39] <sivang> jbailey: so basically you do multibuilds by hand?
[11:39] <seb128> go for it since you updated the previous one, thanks :)
[11:40] <sivang> jdub: regarding 6092, I'm thinking just to disable the option when modifying a current user, becasue when adding a new one it's still makes some sense, and there's even a checkup to see the uid entered meets some sane conditions int the code, what do you say?
[11:40] <jbailey> sivang: No - it provides infrastrcutre that the various modules can use.  Like for nano, you might set udeb_build_dir := udeb  main_build_dir := main, and then do udeb_autoconf_options := --enable-nothing main_autoconf_options := --enable-everything.
[11:40] <jdub> sivang: sure
[11:41] <jbailey> sivang: In nano's case it happens to map well to the packages.  For something like abiword where you have multipass (Gtk build and gnome build), but three packages, gtk, gnome and plugins is where this becomes truly useful without really annoying overhead.
[11:41] <sivang> jdub: ok cool, that way we don't differ too much from upstream, just add a couple lines of code that would widget.enabled = FALSE;  and we're set :)
[11:46] <sivang> jbailey: very nice, so basically you are half way into making the multibuild work, as some infra. is already there for multiple targets ..do I get you right? ;-)
[11:46] <jbailey> sivang: Yes.  And my last hack broke it incredibly and I haven't had a chance to sit down and think about it.
[11:47] <seb128> time to sleep, 'night
[11:47] <jbailey> sivang: I'm hoping to have more time to look at it in a month or so.  Right now my non-work hack time is quite limited.
[11:47] <jbailey> g'n sb!
[11:47] <sivang> seb128: night!
[11:47] <sivang> seb128: how do you say good night in french?
[11:47] <jbailey> sivang: Bonne nuit
[11:48] <sivang> jbailey: :)
[11:48] <trulux> ajmitch, zul, mdz: folks, check https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SELinux and tell me your opinion
[11:48] <jbailey> Although I have a habit of saying Beau rves
[11:48] <trulux> ajmitch: at least the 20/30% of that issues must be solved tonight
[11:48] <sivang> jbailey: ah right, canadian knew french right?
[11:48] <jbailey> sivang: Not all, but many.
[11:49] <sivang> jbailey: it's the second official language no?
[11:49] <jbailey> sivang: Yes.
[11:49] <dilinger> also, hoary could really benefit from some hostap love :/
[11:49] <dilinger> stupid POS wireless nics
[12:01] <trulux> ajmitch: ping