[01:01] <mdz> ok
[01:02] <jbailey> I've just offered to paste our conversation to him in /msg, just a sec.
[01:02] <doko> just wanted to clarify the gcc-4.0 upload
[01:03] <mdz> mpfr should be fine
[01:03] <doko> autogen is for the fixincludes testsuite, I did replace type-handling
[01:04] <mdz> autogen looks fine as well
[01:05] <doko> currently 4.0 didn't branch yet. I'd like to make one update when gcc-4.0 is branched. that's not a guarantee that there are no more ABI changes, but it's closer to a release.
[01:06] <doko> The only packages affected are libgcc1 and libobjc1, the others should be used by Jeff's Java stuff only.
[01:06] <mdz> is this the same update that jbailey mentioned?
[01:06] <doko> yes
[01:06] <mdz> hmm
[01:06] <mdz> libobjc1 is not very important
[01:06] <mdz> but we would need to carefully review the libgcc changes
[01:06] <jbailey> mdz: I did an ABI check yesterday on libgcc, and that's the same.
[01:06] <mdz> jbailey said mid-to-late February
[01:06] <jbailey> I haven't audited the changes between them, but it's easy enough.
[01:06] <mdz> we need to be very careful as we approach preview freeze
[01:07] <mdz> after preview we will be a bit less strict, but the preview release must be very solid
[01:07] <doko> maybe more late February. OTOH, we can track libgcc1 specific changes in the upstream sources
[01:07] <jbailey> mdz: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2005-02/msg00079.html is the message from Mark Mitchell (RM for GCC) saying that he plans to branch on Feb 24th.
[01:08] <mdz> is it possible to reduce the number of gccs in main?
[01:08] <mdz> with 4.0, that will be 3
[01:08] <mdz> do we need all 3?
[01:09] <doko> no. certainly not 3.3 at this point, 3.4 is currently configured for amd64 to be C++ ABI compatible with 3.3 to build the mozilla packages.
[01:09] <mdz> gcc-3.4 seems to be used only for a few packages on amd64
[01:10] <doko> yes, and maybe the kernel? at least the non-official Debian port uses it for the amd64 kernel packages
[01:10] <mdz> we use the default compiler for the kernel
[01:10] <jbailey> Does it address your concern if gcc-4 is the only thing providing Java, and it doesn't provide C, C++ packages?
[01:11] <doko> ehh, we do have to provide C and C++, we can package them in the same package, but why?
[01:11] <mdz> I don't mind if it builds the C and C++ compilers (they'll end up in universe)
[01:11] <doko> no, they'll go to main, as gcj-4.0 depends on these.
[01:12] <mdz> hmm, I did not realize that
[01:12] <mdz> but still, not a big problem
[01:13] <doko> the other question is, if we want to build gcc-4.0 for other languages, but they don't hurt in universe (fortran, objc, maybe ada)
[01:13] <mdz> if they do not initroduce any new build-deps
[01:13] <mdz> and they do not cause FTBFS on any release architectures
[01:13] <mdz> then sure, no problem
[01:13] <mdz> s/initr/intr/
[01:14] <doko> I'm unsure if I can get the python plugin for eclipse uploaded until tomorrow...
[01:14] <doko> that's why I currently disabled ada for all architectures. fails at least on ia64
[01:14] <doko> ia64 is rel.arch?
[01:14] <mdz> no
[01:15] <doko> ok, then I can just disabled it for ia64.
[01:16] <doko> you can find a current set of binaries on chinstrap:~doko/uploads. These should work on i386.
[01:16] <mdz> if you are ready to upload, then please upload sooner rather than later
[01:16] <mdz> especially if the remaining java work is dependent on it
[01:17] <doko> ok, first thing I do tomorrow, however I do test builds before the upload.
[01:17] <mdz> jbailey: you need gcc-4.0 before uploading eclipse stuff, right?
[01:17] <jbailey> mdz: Yes.
[01:17] <mdz> jbailey: is there anything else that we are targeting for main?
[01:18] <jbailey> mdz: No.  That was actually going to be one of my questions is whether eclipse was approved for main or universe.
[01:18] <jbailey> main would be nicer, at least for ecj.  The rest of it could go into universe for now.
[01:18] <mdz> if it's supportable, it should go into main
[01:19] <jbailey> Yeah, I think it is.  There's a huge community around it.
[01:19] <mdz> are they mostly using commercial JVMs with it?
[01:19] <mdz> will we be on our own with gcj, or are there others taking the same path?
[01:20] <jbailey> FC4 has compiled eclipse with gcj.
[01:20] <doko> redhat ...
[01:20] <mdz> ok, good
[01:21] <doko> btw, I did talk to Michael Koch, who does a lot of libgcj/classpath stuff upstream. He does seem to have time, so if something needs to be done on this side ...
[01:21] <mdz> we talked with him about gcjwebplugin, but he said it would be a very large project and take a lot of time
[01:22] <jbailey> doko: He no longer has alot of time, he's just accepted a job offer.
[01:22] <mdz> are there any applications, other than eclipse, that we can use to "show off" our java functionality in hoary?
[01:22] <jbailey> He does have 10% person time to allocate to various things, and I think he's planning on using it for mostly classpath related stuff.
[01:23] <doko> well, we can look at the rhug site and see what is worth including ...
[01:23] <jbailey> mdz: Only things that really want useful SecurityManager support.  I spoke to Michael about that, and he said that it's not possible to do a stub one.
[01:23] <mdz> so can we get all of this into hoary sometime tomorrow (earlier is better)?
[01:23] <mdz> jbailey: can we get tomcat working?
[01:24] <jbailey> mdz: I think so.  I can beat on that one hard.
[01:24] <mdz> or that file sharing app that everyone seems to use, I forget the name
[01:25] <mdz> I think we probably shouldn't go crazy with bringing Java apps into main for hoary, but it would be nice to have a bunch of stuff ready-to-run in universe
[01:25] <mdz> and eclipse in main
[01:25] <jbailey> mdz:  Is universe locked down after tomorrow as well?
[01:25] <mdz> jbailey: no, we'll be fairly liberal with universe
[01:26] <jbailey> mdz: 'kay.  I can see about encouraging folks who've spoken to me about Java to get stuff into universe.
[01:26] <jbailey> The MOTU fast track stuff might be nice incentive. =)
[01:26] <mdz> right
[01:26] <mdz> ogra has been doing some recruiting activities
[01:26] <mdz> Java should give him additional ammunition
[01:27] <mdz> anything else?
[01:27] <doko> ok, my cough is getting worse, I'll sleep now. mdz, until when are you available tomorrow morning UTC?
[01:27] <jbailey> doko: nasty, don't let it get you.  I lost a pile of last week to coughing/sneezing/fever last week.
[01:28] <mdz> doko: I'm usually here starting at 1700 or 1800 UTC
[01:28] <mdz> doko: good night
[01:28] <doko> mdz: no, I meant tomorrow morning
[01:28] <mdz> doko: 1700 UTC is tomorrow morning for me
[01:29] <mdz> oh, morning UTC
[01:29] <jbailey> doko: You two are 10 hours apart. =)
[01:29] <doko> mdz: ok, when do you leave tonight ;)
[01:29] <mdz> I am not usually awake after 0800 UTC
[01:29] <doko> ok, let's try to talk at 07:00 UTC?
[01:30] <mdz> ok, I expect to be online at that time
[01:30] <doko> fine, good night!