[12:03] <restrex> on /etc/fonts/local.conf
[12:12] <lamont> sivang: my internet connection is through a linux box
[12:12] <lamont> routing is rock solid
[12:13] <lamont> then again, I roll my own scripts...
[12:15] <sivang> lamont: I have my routing and internet connection through a p100 56M 800MB 52MB machine, but insie the lan I am using one machine to bridge the network for two others
[12:18] <sivang> lamont: and right, routing is rock solid :)
[12:21] <Kamion> mdz: ramdisk_size bumped
[12:21] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[12:22] <Kamion> mantiena: yeah, parted has some rickety packaging in places, I should probably fix that
[12:22] <Kamion> mantiena: I've fixed the os-prober thing in my local tree
[12:22] <Kamion> thanks
[12:23] <marcin_ant> restrex: hmmmm
[12:23] <marcin_ant> restrex: interesting
[12:24] <marcin_ant> restrex: and what exactly is the difference?
[12:25] <restrex> !
[12:25] <restrex> the hint of the fonts
[12:25] <restrex> ;)
[12:25] <restrex> http://restrex.dotgeek.org/hoary.png  http://www.freepgs.com/juan-pablo/ubuntu.png here's the difference
[12:25] <restrex> :P
[12:25] <marcin_ant> restrex: I need to try...
[12:25] <restrex> ok
[12:25] <restrex> try
[12:25] <restrex> uncomment 
[12:25] <restrex> on /etc/fonts/local.conf
[12:26] <restrex> :P
[12:26] <marcin_ant> restrex: and what next?
[12:26] <marcin_ant> restrex: I know where
[12:26] <restrex> restrex I have to enable that <match target="font">
[12:26] <restrex> restrex    <edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
[12:26] <restrex> restrex      <bool>true</bool>
[12:26] <restrex> restrex    </edit>
[12:26] <restrex> restrex  </match>
[12:26] <restrex> restrex <fontconfig> 
[12:26] <marcin_ant> restrex: I had to edit this file to enable bitmap fonts yesterday
[12:26] <restrex> uncomment that
[12:26] <marcin_ant> restrex: yest
[12:26] <restrex> ok
[12:26] <mantiena> Kamion, thanks
[12:26] <marcin_ant> restrex: and what next?
[12:26] <restrex> well that worked to me
[12:26] <marcin_ant> restrex: restart session or something?
[12:27] <restrex> excatly
[12:27] <restrex> :P
[12:27] <restrex> exactly
[12:28] <mantiena> Kamion, as I understand I shouldn't report a bug against parted-udeb about dependancy on libparted, you already know this ?
[12:30] <Kamion> mantiena: well I haven't fixed it yet, so feel free to report :)
[12:31] <mantiena> Kamion, hehe, maybe better fix it, it's not hard ;)
[12:31] <Kamion> mantiena: re #669 it really needs to be hooked into the way partman-target already creates /etc/fstab, so I'm not sure something totally generic to both install and live is immediately possible
[12:31] <Kamion> mantiena: I'm afraid that I have a number of other things to do tonight :P
[12:32] <mantiena> Kamion, about 669 - I think it would be not hard to write separate script, which adds more entries to fstab
[12:33] <mantiena> this udeb could be used on both - install and live CD's
[12:33] <Kamion> perhaps; I haven't yet looked. I recommend looking at partman-target if you have not done so already
[12:42] <marcin_ant> restrex: sorry I cannot see any difference
[12:42] <restrex> oops
[12:43] <restrex> I friend could see the difference
[12:43] <restrex> :)
[12:43] <marcin_ant> restrex: hmm or mayve
[12:43] <marcin_ant> s/mayve/maybe
[12:43] <marcin_ant> a little
[12:43] <restrex> yeah
[12:43] <restrex> :)
[12:44] <restrex> I think that rocks
[12:44] <marcin_ant> fonts are bigger and little sharper
[12:44] <restrex> I like it a lot
[12:44] <restrex> :P
[12:44] <restrex> yes
[12:44] <marcin_ant> but I cannot tell if they are really better
[12:44] <marcin_ant> I think that it can depend on what font you use
[12:44] <restrex> oh that's is your opinioon
[12:44] <restrex> :)
[12:49] <marcin_ant> you know
[12:49] <marcin_ant> they are really better with
[12:49] <marcin_ant> "slight"
[12:50] <marcin_ant> hinting (in "Font rendering details")
[12:51] <restrex> jeje
[12:51] <restrex> I'll try too
[12:52] <restrex> :P
[01:04] <T-Bone> yummy, booted ubuntu with a ppc64 kernel ;)
[01:32] <mdz> T-Bone: mmm, nice
[01:32] <T-Bone> mdz: actually it happened by mistake: I booted my gentoo kernel with the ubuntu rootfs ;)
[01:33] <T-Bone> noted a couple of ioctl errors (not that surprising: some missing clue for 32bit calls i guess) but it booted fine anyway
[01:33] <T-Bone> s/clue/glue/
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> uh
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> ok
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> somebody tell me what's going on with my cd rom drive.
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> there's nothing in my cd rom drive, i ahve one cd drive
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> BUT 
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> I can mount it
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> it has files on it
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> oh!
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> holy crap I"m shelled into another machine somewhere, no wonder
[01:43] <tseng> bluefoxicy: knock it off.
[01:47] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  you're just jelous 'cause I sound like a rock star
[01:47] <tseng> or just tired of the low signal/noise ratio
[01:48] <tseng> the devs like to keep this channel low traffic, high signal/noise
[01:49] <tseng> so if you could think out loud somewhere else, im sure everyone would appreciate it.
[01:55] <jbailey> jdub: http://bugzilla.ximian.com/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=13548 might be a solution for Ubuntu BZ#2752
[01:55] <jbailey> jdub: And 2725 can be closed. =)
[01:56] <jbailey> jdub: I'm looking at doing an evo-exchange upload, mind fi I just deal with these?
[01:57] <jdub> please do
[01:57] <jdub> there's no BML here ;)
[01:57] <jbailey> BML?
[02:03] <jdub> jbailey: big maintainer lock ;)
[02:04] <jbailey> *lol*
[02:04] <jbailey> jdub: True, but since it's actually assigned to you, I figure it'd polite to mention before I steal them.
[02:04] <jdub> STEAL MY BUGS
[02:05] <jbailey> You'll have to flog me for it later. =)
[02:05] <jdub> UDU dude
[02:05] <jdub> beers and flogging
[02:05] <jbailey> Sweet.
[02:05] <jbailey> Maybe it's best that my wife couldn't make it. =)
[02:06] <jdub> heh
[02:06] <jdub> i don't have a wife now, but i will then ;)
[02:06] <jbailey> I remember that.  I met your lady in Brazil.
[02:06] <jdub> oh cool, didn't know you were there
[02:06] <jbailey> She asked me strange questions like whether I would be more likely to come to some conference if it were in .nz instead of australia.
[02:06] <jdub> and now you're working for SSDS ;)
[02:07] <jdub> oh
[02:07] <jdub> you know why?
[02:07] <jdub> linux.conf.au 2006 is going to be in New Zealand - announced only last week :)
[02:07] <jbailey> Yeah, life works in strange ways. =)
[02:07] <jbailey> Oh lovely. =)
[02:07] <tseng> jbailey: did she mention anything about loving pants?
[02:08] <jbailey> tseng: Errr....
[02:08] <jdub> dear elmo,
[02:08] <jdub> dear elmo, please install xplanet on rookery, kthxbye. love, jdub.
[02:09] <jdub> i've just used gnome as a guinea pig for a fun feature for ubuntu
[02:09] <jdub> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWorldWide
[02:09] <jbailey> I have an urge to do some ugly hack of hideous proportions.
[02:09] <jbailey> It's the Hurd hacker in me trying to get out. =)
[02:09] <jdub> of course, it's easier with gnome's wiki
[02:09] <jdub> fie zwiki, fie!
[02:10] <jbailey> GAH, why is firefox a higher priority for x-www-browser than ephy?
[02:10] <jbailey> The default installed browser should never be a higher priority than anything else.
[02:10] <jdub> haha
[02:10] <jdub> you will comply!
[02:10] <jdub> that's a good bug to fix though
[02:11] <jbailey> Hmm, I guess I vaguely qualigy as a GnomeWorldWide person, I guess.
[02:12] <jdub> yeah, add yourself to the russian wastelands
[02:12] <jdub> oh
[02:12] <jdub> other wastelands
[02:12] <jbailey> No.  I'm just outside of the US. =)
[02:12] <jdub> the pseudo french ones
[02:18] <ajmitch_> hey jeff & jeff :)
[02:18] <ajmitch_> jbailey: I hope you will come to lca2006
[02:18] <matt__> Anybody know who did the new xscreensaver 'unlock' dialog?
[02:18] <jbailey> ajmitch_: I think it's as unliekly as me going to FOSDEM ever.
[02:18] <jbailey> ajmitch_: It's just way too long of a trip for a short period of time.
[02:18] <jdub> matt__: ogra
[02:18] <ajmitch_> jbailey: hmm, you've got 11 months to save :)
[02:18] <matt__> I like it :-)
[02:18] <jdub> it's rad
[02:19] <jdub> now it doesn't skewer out my eyeball and roast it on the fires of hell
[02:19] <jdub> which was tiring
[02:19] <jdub> and gave me a headache
[02:19] <matt__> yeah, the old one was fugly as hel
[02:20] <matt__> it's the little things that count
[02:20] <jbailey> ajmitch_: Save?
[02:20] <jbailey> ajmitch_: Oh, it's not the money.  It's that I don't like travelling that much (despite the fact that I do alot of it)
[02:21] <jdub> you are pudding!
[02:26] <jbailey> Ooo, the new unlock box is nice.
[02:27] <jbailey> I should roll up my sleeves and hack it to do Xinerama.
[02:27] <jbailey> Perhaps I'll be lazy instead.
[02:28] <jdub> yeah, probably not worth it
[02:28] <jdub> we'll most likely have a proper gnomey one next time around
[02:30] <ajmitch_> I can appreciate xinerama now that I have a 2nd monitor, although my hoary X display is just in an Xnest
[02:31] <jbailey> ajmitch_: I suck for work without xinerama.
[02:31] <jbailey> I usually have both monitors full and my laptop with a screen going.
[02:34] <jbailey> ajmitch: You looking for tasks?
[02:34] <ajmitch> jbailey: maybe.. :)
[02:34] <jbailey> ajmitch: I had a vague thought that C# bindings for a translator might be cool.
[02:34] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:34] <mdz> jbailey: the new unlock box is nice except for the MovieOS "APPROVED"
[02:34] <ajmitch> what sort of translator?
[02:34] <mdz> ACCESS GRANTED CLEARED LEVEL ONE
[02:35] <ajmitch> mdz: flashing green?
[02:35] <jbailey> mdz: True.  But the graphics are now actually better than I can produce.  The previous ones, I'm less sure.
[02:35] <jbailey> ajmitch: I was thinking just the ability for an app to land on a translator and provide status information.
[02:36] <jbailey> ajmitch: Even something simple like a libapache2-mod-status
[02:36] <jbailey> ajmitch: Go through and collect stats information on web server internals in a /proc or /sys like setup
[02:36] <jbailey> ajmitch: There's no rason to do that in anything as low level as C or C++.
[02:37] <ajmitch> hurd?
[02:37] <jbailey> ajmitch: Do translators run anywhere else?
[02:38] <ajmitch> no, but I thought you might have been suggesting something ubuntu-related :)
[02:38] <jbailey> Ah, no. =)
[02:38] <jbailey> I'm still too new with Ubuntu to have a long list of tasks that I want to do but will never get to. =)
[02:39] <jbailey> Gimme another 4 months.  Hanging out with people at UBU should probably do it. =)
[02:39] <ajmitch> heh
[02:39] <ajmitch> I'm still hopeful of getting there
[02:39] <jbailey> Cool.  It would be lovely to meet you finally. =)
[02:40] <ajmitch> yeah, I'm just not sure about LCA still
[02:40] <jbailey> Yeah, I'm not going to that.
[02:40] <ajmitch> dunedin->sydney isn't too expensive :)
[02:42] <ajmitch> I'd better install hoary on my laptop by then though
[02:42] <Mithrandir> hi Jeff, ajmitch 
[02:42] <ajmitch> hi Mithrandir 
[02:42] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: what's your real name?
[02:42] <jbailey> Heya Tollef.
[02:42] <ajmitch> andrew mitchell
[02:43] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: ah, ok.  I wasn't sure and instead of making a fool of myself guessing wrong, I went for the IRC nick. ;)  I just like knowing people's real names.
[02:43] <ajmitch> plus tab-completion is easier :)
[02:46] <Mithrandir> that's true
[02:46] <Mithrandir> I also like to have a face to connect with the IRC nick, tho
[02:46] <ajmitch> going to UDU?
[02:47] <Mithrandir> yes
[02:47] <Mithrandir> possibly also LCA; I just need to decide first.
[03:15] <jdub> hrm
[03:15] <jdub> the volkswagen song
[03:15] <jdub> s/da da da/ubuntu/
[03:24] <dholbach> re
[04:16] <zul> hey
[04:37] <mdz> what's the right build-depends expression for something which in Ubuntu build-depends on libxinerama-dev, but should also build on Debian?
[04:39] <jdub> xlibs-dev | libxinerama-dev
[04:39] <jdub> probably better the other way around
[04:41] <mdz> thanks
[04:42] <mdz> though
[04:42] <mdz> xlibs-dev doesn't depend on libxinerama-dev
[04:42] <jdub> bummer
[04:42] <jdub> perhaps libxinerama is separate anyway
[04:43] <mdz> no libxinerama-dev in Debian
[04:43] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  when you're free can we discuss something from ubuntu-devel@?
[04:44] <mdz> bluefoxicy: if it's the live CD installer thing, not tonight
[04:44] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  alright.  I'm gonna leave a reply anyway though on the list, but another day.
[04:47] <mdz> elmo: not sleepy?
[04:48] <elmo> mdz: hmm.  i was.  but I got distracted by my dead computer
[04:48] <elmo> "auto restart after AC power loss" == love
[04:49] <mdz> defaults of "power off after AC power loss" == death
[04:50] <mdz> I have a machine here which defaults to power-off, and the option isn't visible in setup unless you install a h4x0red BIOS
[04:50] <elmo> yeah - I'm imaging how screwed I would have been had this happened when I was in .es or even .au
[04:50] <elmo> mdz: eww
[04:52] <daniels> mdz: libxinerama-dev | xlibs-static-dev
[04:53] <bob2> mutt gets kinda slow with 40 000 messages in one folder
[04:53] <mdz> daniels: | xlibs-static-dev (<< 6.8.1-1) is what I decided on
[04:54] <mdz> because current xlibs-static-dev doesn't seem to include the same stuff as old xlibs-static-dev
[04:54] <jdub> bob2: header caching!
[04:54] <mdz> jdub: mbox!
[04:54] <mdz> (doesn't header caching only work with maildir?)
[04:55] <jdub> and imap
[04:55] <bob2> haha, I have headercache with maildir
[04:55] <bob2> so it opens pretty quick
[04:55] <mdz> 40k messages in one folder is insane anyway
[04:55] <mdz> unless it's all spam
[04:55] <jdub> it is insane
[04:55] <bob2> but if you modify it while it's open, mutt spends > 20minutes restating it
[04:55] <jdub> we're going to have to see your doctor again, bob2 
[04:55] <daniels> mdz: ah, yeah.  phat.
[04:55] <bob2> mdz: forget to reenable my archivemail cronjob
[04:55] <jdub> DOKTOR FEEL GUT
[04:56] <jdub> yeah, that sucks in my sent folder
[04:56] <jdub> "forward this mail i sent to someone else"
[04:56] <jdub> ...
[04:56] <jdub> ..
[04:56] <jdub> ..
[04:56] <jdub> bong
[04:56] <bob2> hahaha, yeah
[04:56] <bob2> I should rotate my sent folder weekly or something
[04:57] <helix> is there anything to filter outgoing mail?
[04:58] <mdz> mutt send-hooks
[04:58] <helix> I knew that
[04:58] <jdub> mutt has send-hooks, which are kinda like that, or you could send all your outgoing mail through procmail ;)
[04:58] <helix> it's actually quite silly that I asked considering I *have* send-hooks in my .muttrc
[04:59] <helix> anyway, the hole.
[04:59] <mdz> jdub: even I am not that extreme about procmail
[04:59] <mdz> helix: no, come back!
[04:59] <helix> anything for mdz
[04:59] <jdub> helix: send hooks are there so you don't even have to think about them
[05:00] <helix> jdub should belly dance
[05:00] <helix> jdub: true. I think I stole mine from your .muttrc
[05:00] <jdub> heh
[05:00] <jdub> man
[05:00] <jdub> i should so update that
[05:00] <mdz> I should publish my dotfiles
[05:00] <helix> I changed the email addresses
[05:00] <zul> helix: no nightmares tonight thansk
[05:00] <bob2> jaq's is pimper
[05:00] <helix> mdz: you SHOULD
[05:00] <jdub> bob2: only because he updates it
[05:00] <helix> mdz: especially your zsh stuff
[05:00] <mdz> they frighten people :-(
[05:00] <bob2> thom's zshrc is pretty impressive
[05:01] <daniels> i like my zshrc
[05:01] <mdz> my zsh is not as scary as my procmail
[05:01] <helix> my procmail is totally basic
[05:01] <daniels> helix: you don't want to see jdub bellydancing
[05:01] <daniels> mdz: CRACK
[05:01] <helix> daniels: why not?
[05:01] <jdub> even pipka is using procmail now
[05:01] <helix> mdz: sicko
[05:01] <mdz> mizar:[~]  cat .procmailrc* |wc -l
[05:01] <mdz> 3059
[05:02] <zul> holy crap
[05:02] <jdub> mdz: that means you're crap at procmail ;)
[05:02] <zul> popular guy arent you mdz
[05:02] <mdz> jdub: it might seem that way to the uninitiated
[05:02] <mdz> jdub: but in fact this is not the case
[05:02] <mdz> I apply different keyword filters to different mailing lists
[05:02] <helix> mine is a whopping 292
[05:02] <helix> I wonder what kind of crack mdz is on
[05:02] <mdz> and I generate the whole mess with m4
[05:03] <jdub> ah, if it's generated, that's reasonable
[05:03] <zul> helix: mine is 82
[05:03] <helix> ugh, but he willfully uses m4
[05:03] <jdub> i have never used m4 willfully
[05:04] <jdub> i've used it with incredulity a couple of times
[05:04] <mdz> I really want something better than procmail
[05:04] <jdub> something that groks list headers already
[05:04] <mdz> sometimes I am >< this close to using gnus
[05:04] <mdz> but then I try it
[05:04] <bob2> the clarity of m4 with the simple syntax of procmail
[05:05] <jdub> mdz: tried wanderlust?
[05:05] <bob2> you really have the best of both worlds, mdz 
[05:05] <jdub> mdz: gus raves.
[05:05] <mdz> jdub: no, I haven't
[05:05] <daniels> mdz: WITH M4?!?
[05:05] <mdz> bob2: so how are you enjoying being part of the arch team?
[05:05] <helix> :( no wanderlust in debian
[05:05] <bob2> rofl
[05:06] <bob2> mdz: you're evil
[05:06] <helix> I have a daniels quote about m4
[05:06] <bob2> helix: wl.
[05:06] <helix> but it's durty
[05:06] <jdub> helix: wl
[05:06] <bob2> jdub: too slow.
[05:06] <helix> wl?
[05:06] <jdub> wander
[05:06] <jdub> lust
[05:06] <jdub> wl
[05:06] <jdub> :-)
[05:06] <helix> I knew that
[05:06] <mdz> helix: daniels is a potty mouth
[05:07] <jdub> you were just testing us
[05:07] <helix> he is
[05:08] <ajmitch> hi jeff
[05:09] <helix> I want to see if I can prove something
[05:09] <helix> jbailey: do you like m4?
[05:09] <mdz> I never said I _liked_ m4
[05:09] <jbailey> Heya Andrew
[05:09] <helix> mdz: hush
[05:09] <jbailey> helix: Errr..   It's good for some things.
[05:09] <mdz> but it was not an unreasonable tool for this job
[05:09] <jbailey> helix: I'd rather maintain my sendmail config with m4 than by hand.
[05:09] <zul> hey jbailey 
[05:09] <jbailey> helix: I think that a less sucky tool could've been chosen for autoconf.
[05:10] <helix> see, only crazy people like it
[05:10] <bob2> if you have a sendmail config to maintain at all, YHL, HAND.
[05:10] <ajmitch> selinux policies use m4 :)
[05:10] <helix> when mdz outcrazies a hurd hacker...
[05:10] <mdz> helix: you were going to use his answer in support of your position regardless of its content :-)
[05:10] <mdz> I'm onto you
[05:10] <helix> maybe! I should be a lawyer
[05:10] <jbailey> mdz: The fact that I prefer sendmail also seems to make me as less crazy.  Go figure =)
[05:10] <mdz> sendmail is teh sux
[05:11] <ajmitch> bbl
[05:11] <mdz> I have broken almost all of my hysterical raisin habits
[05:11] <mdz> m4 is the last bastion I think
[05:11] <helix> you had raisin habits?
[05:11] <jdub> jbailey: you prefer sendmail?
[05:12] <jbailey> jdub: Yeah.
[05:12] <jbailey> jdub: Although postfix seems to be nice for a small system.
[05:12] <helix> "why did we hire this guy?!"
[05:12] <bob2> haha
[05:12] <jbailey> jdub: exim4's config make sendmail's look simple.
[05:12] <bob2> I'm pretty sure there's a clause about this sort of thing...
[05:12] <jdub> jbailey: exim is wank
[05:13] <helix> jdub likes ezmlm
[05:13] <jdub> postfix is great for huge systems
[05:13] <jbailey> jdub: I don't know the slang.  Is that 'wank' like, don't do this in public, or 'wank' like it feels good?
[05:13] <jdub> don't give postfix that pat-on-head little-boy business!
[05:13] <jdub> jbailey: wank like wanker
[05:14] <jbailey> It didn't look possible to configure rewrite rules that get triggered when certain headers are set in an email.
[05:14] <jbailey> Sadly, something the two main systems I used to work on need.
[05:14] <jdub> tables, not mini languages :-)
[05:14] <jbailey> Lovely, until you're running a multi-thousand domain hub. =)
[05:15] <jdub> i've never needed a mini language in my big installations
[05:16] <mdz> Good evening folks, and welcome to #ubuntu-devel Weekend Edition
[05:16] <mdz> this week, MAIL
[05:16] <jbailey> One thing I did like with postfix is that it was far easier than sendmail to have multiple alias files.
[05:16] <jdub> always felt like murky bad hack poo to me
[05:17] <bob2> this is like the SMH/Sun Herald difference?
[05:17] <helix> that topic is funny looking
[05:17] <jdub> bob2: i hope so!
[05:18] <jdub> i mean
[05:18] <bob2> haha
[05:18] <jdub> i don't know what you mean
[05:18] <bob2> jdub: you may have noticed subtle difference between the two newspapers
[05:18] <jbailey> And thinking of obscure nastiness, get it while it's hot people.  Grub2 for ppc compiled as a .deb: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/grub2/
[05:19] <jdub> boobies
[05:19] <helix> where is grub for sparc?
[05:19] <jdub> jbailey: is grub cool?
[05:19] <jdub> grub2
[05:19] <jdub> like, this one's actually cross-platform?
[05:19] <jbailey> helix: The openfirmware stuff is working well enough for PPC, so the ugliest of the porting is done.
[05:19] <mdz> grand-er and unified-er?
[05:19] <helix> woo!
[05:19] <helix> silo-b-gone
[05:19] <jbailey> Probably have some 64bit suckage to dealwith on ultrasparcs.
[05:20] <helix> foo, that's what I have
[05:20] <jbailey> jdub: Yeah, they've done a passable job of keeping bits separate.  They have a module based system, and you just link in the modules that you want (filesystems, etc).  I haven't inflicted it on my PC yet, but I've been using it on my PPC for about 2 weeks.
[05:20] <jbailey> I got the menu running about 20 minutes ago.
[05:22] <jdub> nice
[05:22] <jdub> let's ship it with hoary
[05:22] <jdub> WELCOME TO WEEKEND EDITION!
[05:22] <jbailey> jdub: It's already in universe.
[05:22] <jdub> where the laughter is non-stop!
[05:24] <jdub> so bill maher is not on tv anymore?
[05:25] <jdub> oh
[05:25] <jdub> down season
[05:25] <mdz> yeah
[05:26] <mdz> mythtv is ready to pounce when he comes back
[05:30] <jdub> :)
[05:30] <jdub> i was hoping to subscribe to new rules rss
[05:30] <jdub> but there doesn't appear to be a feed
[05:31] <helix> mmm, feeds
[05:31] <helix> syndication is yummy
[05:37] <jbailey> Yay!  Angie has arrived safely in Cuba.
[05:37] <jbailey> Whups, ECHAN.
[05:37] <helix> jbailey: yay anyway :)
[05:37] <jbailey> helix: =)
[05:44] <jdub> mdz: is mythtv shippable?
[05:45] <jdub> hrm, n/m
[06:51] <jdub> seriously
[06:52] <jdub> if we let ogra loose on all the shitty little embarrassing ui bits
[06:52] <jdub> we're going to have MovieOS in *no* time
[07:13] <ironwolf> MovieOS bad.
[07:23] <bob2> no way
[07:23] <bob2> I've always wanted a 3-d file manager on IRIX.
[07:27] <Treenaks> bob2: that's SO Jurassic Park 
[07:27] <bob2> this is unix, I KNOW THIS.
[07:32] <Treenaks> g'night lamont 
[07:41] <thully> Hi - I'm not going to have much time to respond/follow up on my bugs in bugzilla for a few months - what should I do?
[09:03] <YokoZar> Would it be wrong to associate Wine with all of the MIME types here: http://filext.com/detaillist.php?extdetail=EXE
[09:03] <YokoZar> In particular I'm concerned about "application/octet-stream" - are there thing that use that mime type that aren't windows executables?
[09:04] <bob2> yes
[09:04] <bob2> you can't associate that with wine
[09:04] <rubenv> YokoZar: octet-stream is used pretty commonly for sort of unknown binary files
[09:05] <rubenv> e.g. CHM files
[09:05] <YokoZar> Ok, but what about the rest of them?
[09:05] <YokoZar> application/x-msdownload, application/exe, application/x-exe, application/dos-exe, vms/exe, application/x-winexe, application/msdos-windows, application/x-msdos-program, application/x-zip-compressed seem to be good, yes?
[09:06] <rubenv> do those mime types even appear on linux?
[09:06] <bob2> I don't know that trying to run stuff in wine automatically is a great idea
[09:06] <YokoZar> (x-zip-compressed is for self extracting things)
[09:07] <YokoZar> When opened by double-clicking?  Why not?
[09:07] <bob2> a) it may not work, b) how often is that actually useful?
[09:07] <ajmitch> some of those may be associated with mono as well
[09:07] <YokoZar> Hmm...
[09:08] <YokoZar> Mono is a problem...
[09:08] <rubenv> most wine things provide wrappers (as mono does)
[09:08] <bob2> do people really want to run random windows crap by double-clicking?
[09:08] <rubenv> bob2: or worse, unsuspectingly from their emails
[09:08] <ajmitch> I think mono may pass things over to wine if it's not an IL executable
[09:08] <YokoZar> Yes, actually.  I got a few letters from users kind of impressed about how they could download and run an exe and double click it and go, heh.
[09:09] <bob2> I'd hope evolution/etc are smart about that.
[09:09] <ajmitch> I thought wine used to use binfmt-support?
[09:09] <YokoZar> Yeah Wine does that too.  
[09:09] <YokoZar> I'm mostly interested in what happens when I click one on Firefox
[09:10] <YokoZar> The "open with wine (default)" thing should happen
[09:10] <bob2> that seems horribly dangerous
[09:10] <YokoZar> Or, rather, be given as an option (with save to disk being the other)
[09:11] <YokoZar> Well the alternative is to require the user to save to disk, open up a terminal, navigate to the exe, and do "wine program.exe"
[09:11] <bob2> yeah
[09:11] <YokoZar> Since oftentimes the executable bit isn't set on the file (hence you can't make much use of binfmt)
[09:11] <bob2> I'm still amazed people are really running random windows programs on ubuntu
[09:12] <YokoZar> Wine's getting mighty good.  A user told me about being able to just click and download the party poker installer, double click it, and have it put an icon right on his desktop after installing.
[09:13] <YokoZar> What's the "vms/exe" mime type?  I've never seen it prefaced by vms (usually application)
[09:14] <YokoZar> rubenv: Why not?  When Wine gets good enough to run stuff, of course ;)
[09:15] <rubenv> YokoZar: because wine brings in bad ideas, by basically stufing random executables in home dirs etc
[09:15] <rubenv> well, it's not wine's fault, it's the whole bad windows logic
[09:17] <YokoZar> Well, to be fair, you can always restart by nuking ~/.wine
[09:17] <YokoZar> I would like to eventually see wine in main though, if for no other reason than it will allow us to port open source windows programs with winelib and make them into packages as well
[09:17] <rubenv> still gives me the creeps :-)
[09:19] <YokoZar> Wine will never get into main until we can make it secure, heh.  Then again day we start seeing winelib viruses rather than microsoft ones will be the day Linux has secured world domination
[09:22] <bob2> are there any useful FS windows programs that don't have ports already?
[09:22] <bob2> aside from maybe virtualdub
[09:22] <rubenv> yeah, I see more light in just building alternatives
[09:22] <rubenv> then running slow wine progs
[09:26] <YokoZar> Yeah, eMule
[09:26] <YokoZar> Things like that
[09:27] <YokoZar> Lots of OSS is developed on Windows (DC++ comes to mind as well).  Miranda Instant Messenger is another popular one (which we have gaim, of course, but it would be a cool universe package)
[09:29] <YokoZar> And you should know better than to say that wine progs are slow.  Wine is not an emulator :p
[09:30] <YokoZar> In theory, though, a very working Wine in main would allow people to just pop in a software CD (say, Half Life 2) and start going like it wasn't anything special.
[09:31] <bob2> emule is already on linux
[09:31] <bob2> dc++ is already on linux
[09:33] <YokoZar> amule is not like emule (it misses the serverless network and lots of features) - the DC++ client is a lot better than the Direct Connect linux clients.
[09:33] <YokoZar> And, of course, running them in Wine only lets you do it on i386 architecture (we could get eMule running in PPC if we recompiled it with winelib)
[09:50] <helix> haha
[10:47] <Mithrandir> three times.
[10:49] <dholbach> hai
[10:50] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[10:50] <daniels> Mithrandir: wtf?
[10:50] <daniels> Mithrandir: worksformehthkthxbye
[10:50] <daniels> oops, forgot hand
[10:51] <dholbach> hi ajmitch!
[10:51] <dholbach> damn... spamassassin on my router doesnt work anymore :-(
[10:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: in what context?
[11:04] <_mvo_> mdz: what do you think about #2281 ("apt: if cdrom not found then use online files")? save enought to merge or rather leave it for later?
[11:06] <dholbach> hellas _mvo_
[11:07] <_mvo_> hi dholbach 
[11:08] <justdave> I had that same thing happen when I updated the other day
[11:08] <justdave> debconf asked me all the xserver-xorg questions three times in a row
[11:08] <daniels> justdave: huh
[11:09] <daniels> please both of you file a bug with as much info (xserver-xorg/* from /var/cache/debconf/config.dat et al) as you can possibly muster, severity major, package xserver-xorg, assigned to daniel.stone@ubuntu.com
[11:09] <justdave> I asked in #ubuntu at the time and it was blamed on upgrading apt at the same time because the new apt asked the questions at a different point in the install process. (or so I was told :)
[11:09] <daniels> won't look at it for a few days though
[11:09] <daniels> justdave: hm
[11:09] <daniels> mdz: ?
[11:09] <daniels> hm, I know what it might be
[11:10] <daniels> please file the bug and include this line so I can remember -- I think it's checking the wrong variable for reconfigure-or-not
[11:13] <mdz> daniels: ?
[11:15] <justdave> ok, it's bug 6484
[11:15] <mdz> _mvo_: hmm, isn't there a bug (both in the old and new code) in the case of EOF on stdin?
[11:15] <mdz> there are other places in the code which had similar problems in the past
[11:16] <daniels> mdz: see justdave's comment
[11:17] <mdz> ah
[11:17] <mdz> what's the question for me?
[11:17] <mdz> (or did you mean something other than his coment with the bug number)
[11:18] <mdz> justdave: apt asking questions at a different point?  sounds like more urban legend
[11:19] <daniels> mdz: ok, so it's just random bong :)
[11:19] <_mvo_> mdz: yes, I'll fix that. do you feel that a bug-fixed version is save :) ?
[11:20] <justdave> found it in scrollback, mebaran151 was the source of the silly apt excuse :)
[11:20] <dholbach> mdz: i could imagine the questions were asked for xserver-common xserver-org and maybe a third package too
[11:20] <mdz> _mvo_: I think it is probably safe, but would prefer to hold off on any further feature work until after Hoary
[11:21] <mdz> _mvo_: and rather spend the time stabilizing existing features (update-*, gnome-app-install, etc.)
[11:23] <_mvo_> mdz: agreed, it's just a nice to have. we can easily defer it if you feel uncomfortable about it
[11:24] <_mvo_> mdz: stabilizing is my next goal. I will have to ask jdub about his plans for gnome-app-install, I'm not really involved there (apart from providing the backend)
[11:24] <mdz> _mvo_: has the update-notifier hook facility been tested?
[11:24] <YokoZar> Holy crap, I segfaulted gcc
[11:24] <mdz> _mvo_: it would also be good to test CD-based upgrades
[11:25] <YokoZar> When I uupdated the latest Wine package for the new wine release I now get a segfault in the compiler when it's building
[11:26] <YokoZar> (this is building on Warty) - does Hoary have a later GCC?
[11:26] <_mvo_> mdz: I tested it localy while developing it. but IIRC the utf-8 installer is the first "real" application that uses it
[11:27] <mdz> I thought I saw the utf8 migration tool uploaded, but I can't find it now
[11:28] <_mvo_> mdz: read cd based upgrades will only work when update-notifier is runing. for the warty-hoary upgrade cd-based upgrades will be not-overly-nice because the cd is mounted noexec and the user will have to either add the cd with synaptic by hand or run "python /cdrom/cdupgrade" :/
[11:30] <mdz> _mvo_: yes, but it will be nice for hoary->hoary+1 upgrades
[11:30] <mdz> but only if it is tested before hoary releases :-)
[11:30] <_mvo_> mdz: yes :) 
[11:41] <dholbach> hi pitti
[11:42] <pitti> Morning
[12:01] <mdz> night
[12:01] <_mvo_> night mdz 
[12:02] <daniels> mdz: 'night dude
[12:10] <enrico> Hello.  Question about bugzilla: when someone reports a problem with the docteam, bugs get assigned to my e-mail address.  However, that gives the impression that I'm taking care of them, which is not necessarily true.  Is there a way to assign the bugs to "nobody", so that it's clear that they are there to be picked up?
[12:30] <dholbach> "morning" ogra ;-)
[12:31] <ogra> moin
[12:34] <YokoZar> Hey.  New version of Wine is out...trying to get my package to build, but GCC seems to be segfaulting at random parts.  If I do get it to compile, though, can I have you put it up in universe after I upload it to winehq.org?
[12:34] <daniels> YokoZar: stop overclocking and/or get better memory
[12:35] <YokoZar> No overclocking here, though that might explain it. Maybe I should turn up my processor fan.
[12:36] <YokoZar> I think I ran memtest earlier.  It could just be a GCC bug (it's been updated minorly from warty to hoary and I'm compiling on Warty at the moment)
[12:46] <ogra> YokoZar: if you want to be a MOTU, you should track the ubuntu-users list.... there is a long thread from tonight where someone needs wine help :)
[12:46] <YokoZar> I hope he's not running the really old universe packages, heh
[12:47] <YokoZar> Thanks for the tip, I should subscribe, heh
[12:47] <ogra> YokoZar: probably....but as you have updaqted ones in your repo, you could point there
[12:47] <ogra> YokoZar: to have someone in the community testing them ;)
[12:48] <YokoZar> most of my testers write to the Wine users list, heh
[12:48] <ogra> YokoZar: oh, and till malone is ready, the ubuntu-users list is our bugtracking systen :-P
[12:49] <ogra> for universe....
[12:50] <YokoZar> Sounds reasonable.  
[12:50] <mantiena> daniels, hi, I wanna talk about best default resolution, do you have some time ?
[12:50] <YokoZar> The problem is... I don't know the answer to his question
[12:50] <daniels> mantiena: no time right now, sorry
[12:50] <YokoZar> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-February/022096.html
[12:51] <daniels> mantiena: but i did seem to notice that you filed the bug about 85 or 100hz twice?
[12:51] <YokoZar> I've gotten several reports about the winehq apt repository being screwy, but I think this has to do with sourceforge being unreliable more than anything else
[12:51] <daniels> mantiena: (6470 and 6480)
[12:52] <mantiena> daniels, yes, I accidently pressed refresh button this morning to view new comments, but firefox filled new bugreport instead :(
[12:52] <amu> enrico: probably the best, if the docteam define an mailalias where the new bugs goes to, assigned to noone isnt a good idea, practically bugs are lost in nirwana, elmo can change your assignment.
[12:52] <daniels> mantiena: ah, right
[12:52] <mantiena> daniels, should I close duplicated ?
[12:52] <daniels> mantiena: please close 6480 as a duplicate of 6470, yes
[12:53] <mantiena> daniels, ok, when you will have some time to talk just do /query mantiena ;)
[12:53] <ogra> YokoZar: have you seen the initial mail on this thread ? the OP wants to run VB scripts under wine....is that possible ?
[12:53] <daniels> probably not until next week
[12:53] <enrico> amu: good idea.  Is it possible to have mailaliases defined like @docteam.ubuntu.com ?
[12:53] <daniels> but see my comments in #6470
[12:53] <enrico> Or maybe we could just set that to the ubuntu-doc mailing list.
[12:53] <mantiena> daniels, ok, as I understand xresprobe does resolution selection, right ?
[12:54] <daniels> mantiena: yes, the smarts are in ddcprobe.sh
[12:54] <amu> enrico: you should ask elmo, with the kubuntu, we defined an external alias 
[12:54] <enrico> Let's try to see what happens assigning to the ubuntu-doc list
[12:54] <mantiena> daniels, thanks for info
[12:54] <daniels> np
[12:55] <YokoZar> ogra: Ahh, guess I wasn't looking closely.  You can do it if you install the visual basic runtime (which most apps which use it seem to do)
[12:56] <amu> enrico: everyone think, the other one already take care care ? ;) 
[12:56] <dholbach> is a warning like  libtool: link: warning: `/usr/lib64/libgtk-x11-2.0.la' seems to be moved  considered to be ok?
[12:57] <enrico> amu: at the moment everyone things I already take care :)
[12:57] <ogra> YokoZar: ah, ok... 
[01:00] <amu> enrico: heh
[01:00] <daniels> dholbach: how on earth did you get /usr/lib64 in the first place?
[01:00] <enrico> amu: uhm... reassigning to the list seems to be a problem, as the list is not subscribed to bugzilla.  Is it too impolite to subscribe it?
[01:02] <amu> daniels: did you found same time for the keyboard bug (remember no @ and | with a german keyboard)  
[01:02] <ogra> daniels: amd64, i get the same warniongs here
[01:02] <daniels> amu: not at all
[01:03] <daniels> amu: and not until next week, sorry
[01:03] <daniels> i suspect the problem is pc104 vs pc105
[01:03] <dholbach> daniels: i wanted to have a look at what's going wrong with evolution on amd64 and built it with pbuilder
[01:03] <daniels> it'll make it in for hoary, but probably not even next week
[01:04] <amu> enrico: think so, probably you should discuss it with your team, before assigning them to the list.
[01:05] <enrico> amu: I wanted to try that out before discussing, so that we'd have something to discuss about
[01:05] <enrico> amu: however, I'm not the moderator and the bugzilla mail isn't reaching the list
[01:06] <amu> daniels: np, whenever you've time for it. I'm wondert about other langs, they have not this problem 
[01:06] <daniels> amu: sure ... i'll check it out as soon as i get some time, but i'm swamped for a while, sorry :\
[01:07] <amu> enrico: as i said, practically, everyone think, the other one already take care ;)
[01:07] <amu> enrico: no prob, the moderator can define a whitelist entry for the entry.
[01:08] <enrico> amu: sure, but I can't get to the moderator right now :(
[01:09] <ogra> enrico: malone should be ready soon (referring to bradb) we are waiting for it for MOTU....probably something to consider for the doc stuff too...
[01:09] <enrico> ogra: after hoary maybe?  We fear changes before deadlines
[01:09] <ogra> ah, ok...
[01:10] <sivang> Morning all!
[01:11] <dholbach> hi sivan!
[01:11] <sivang> dholbach: hi daniel, 'sup?
[01:11] <ogra> morning sivang
[01:11] <amu> hey sivang 
[01:11] <dholbach> <- shower
[01:12] <sivang> hey amu :)
[01:40] <zul> morning
[02:11] <dholbach> elmo: ping
[02:12] <dholbach> elmo: alright... just read my mails :-) THANKS!
[03:05] <Mithrandir> daniels: when upgrading with a hand-changed xorg.conf
[03:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: you've broken nautilus as well now. :(
[03:06] <daniels> Mithrandir: bong.  i'll check it out next week.
[03:06] <daniels> Mithrandir: if you want to solve that itmt, sweet deal
[03:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: what with nautilus ?
[03:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: segfaults on startup on amd64; I haven't traced it any more than that yet.
[03:07] <seb128> do you have a backtrace ?
[03:07] <Mithrandir> not yet.
[03:07] <seb128> k
[03:08] <Mithrandir> I'm going to try find what the problem with evo is first.
[03:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: do you have problems with nautilus falling over ATM?
[03:08] <ogra> nope
[03:09] <Mithrandir> are you up-to-date?
[03:10] <ogra> as far as i can....(i version locked the evo package and some libs.... which affects gnome-panel, the address lookup applet and some others)
[03:10] <Mithrandir> can you do it in a chroot or something, possibly?
[03:11] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i have the most recent nautilus on amd64 too
[03:11] <Mithrandir> dholbach: and it works?
[03:11] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yes
[03:12] <Mithrandir> hm
[03:12] <dholbach> Mithrandir: do you have a "crash-test-case" for me?
[03:12] <Mithrandir> dholbach: "starting nautilus". :P
[03:12] <dholbach> Mithrandir: works fine :-)
[03:12] <Mithrandir> it works if I run it without any WM, though.. :P
[03:13] <ogra> Mithrandir: tried a new user ?
[03:13] <Mithrandir>                http://www.scottybob.com/video/customer.videos/paul.k.mov
[03:13] <Mithrandir> sorry, wrong paste.
[03:13] <Gagatan> hehe
[03:13] <Mithrandir> seems like pasting from inside an Xnest is icky.
[03:14] <Gagatan> Mithrandir: ubuntu-people not interested in telemark? ;)
[03:14] <daniels> Mithrandir: ... yes
[03:14] <marcin_ant> hi developers - any "java on ubuntu" here?
[03:14] <Mithrandir> Gagatan: it's not really relevant for Ubuntu development, no. :P
[03:14] <Anubis> I have to simple issues that no one on the board or #ubuntu seems to be able to answer
[03:14] <Anubis> I understand there is some problme with udev?
[03:15] <Gagatan> Mithrandir: right.. more an issue with _sn_frix ;)
[03:15] <Anubis> my /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd symlinks keep disappearing at boot
[03:15] <Anubis> breaking the eject cmd
[03:15] <Anubis> I have to eject /dev/hdd
[03:15] <Anubis> or such
[03:15] <Anubis> the other issue
[03:16] <Anubis> I can't seem to be able to enable hdparm's dma on my cdroms at boot
[03:16] <Anubis> how do you guys do it in Ubuntu
[03:16] <Anubis> my hard drives have dma at boot
[03:16] <Anubis> but not my rom devices
[03:16] <Anubis> do you use a kernel cmd?
[03:16] <Anubis> a script for hdparm at boot?
[03:17] <Anubis> I tried the hdparm script but it returns errors on boot
[03:17] <Mithrandir> dholbach: do you have any shares on the desktop?
[03:17] <dholbach> Mithrandir: no
[03:17] <Anubis> I'm about ot continue my research
[03:17] <Mithrandir> try adding one
[03:17] <Mithrandir> seb128: it tries to allocate about half a gazzillion terabytes of memory, which fails.
[03:18] <Mithrandir> 1844674407117266544 bytes, to be exact.
[03:18] <dholbach> Mithrandir: you mean gnome-user-share?
[03:19] <Mithrandir> dholbach: the "connect to server" thingy.  I have a few SSH shares on my desktop
[03:19] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ok... i already have such a share
[03:20] <seb128> Mithrandir: urg, weird
[03:20] <Mithrandir> seb128: you want the bt in /msg?
[03:20] <Mithrandir> (it's 14 steps deep)
[03:22] <seb128> Mithrandir: k
[03:22] <Mithrandir> seb128: already pasted.
[03:22] <seb128> Mithrandir: could you do the same with nautilus-dbg installed ?
[03:23] <Mithrandir> sure
[03:23] <seb128> and paste it on http://rafb.net/paste/ rather
[03:25] <Mithrandir> what's the right way to make sure I use the debug package?
[03:26] <seb128> look on the backtrace :)
[03:26] <seb128> or attach the process with gdb and look if it finds the symboles or not
[03:28] <Mithrandir> it found them
[03:29] <Mithrandir> seb128: http://rafb.net/paste/results/G6xz9R37.html
[03:31] <seb128> Mithrandir: thanks
[03:34] <seb128> Mithrandir: does it crash if you run it in --no-desktop ?
[03:36] <Mithrandir> seb128: nope, looks happy then
[03:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: wow, 1.6 exabytes, nifty
[03:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm cheap and don't have that amount of memory in my desktop system. ;)
[03:38] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please sync db4.1?
[03:40] <elmo> done
[03:40] <Mithrandir> thanks
[03:40] <zul> anyone got a recommendation for an rss reader?
[03:41] <dholbach> zul: liferea
[03:42] <zul> dholbach, thanks
[03:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: it crashses since the update ?
[03:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: I updated my desktop this morning; I guess I haven't updated in a week or so (150MB-ish download), so I'm not sure what the old versions were.
[03:45] <seb128> Mithrandir: could you try to downgrade to the previous nautilus version ? 
[03:45] <Mithrandir> sure
[03:45] <Mithrandir> upstream version or debian revision?
[03:46] <LBM> zul: blam is quite good
[03:49] <mantiena> Kamion, hi
[03:52] <dholbach> good bye guys... i'm off until tomorrow - partying :-)
[03:52] <seb128> Mithrandir: previous package which is the previous upstream version
[03:52] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:53] <Kamion> mantiena: hi, but bye, I promised to mow the lawn today ...
[03:54] <bob2> crazy norwegians!
[03:55] <zul> oh if anyone read the new linux journal there is a review about ubuntu
[04:12] <Anubis> please
[04:12] <Anubis> what happened to /dev/cdrom?
[04:12] <Anubis> what happened to /dev/cdroms/cdrom0?
[04:12] <Anubis> what happened to /dev/dvd?
[04:12] <Anubis> don't I NEED these?
[04:14] <azeem> Anubis: try in #ubuntu
[04:14] <Anubis> azeem, no seems to be able to answer this
[04:15] <Anubis> thats why I'm asking the guys who know
[04:15] <azeem> then ask the question in #ubuntu again later 
[04:15] <Anubis> my contact in #ubuntu is away crimsun
[04:15] <Anubis> he usually helps me
[04:15] <azeem> roughly the same people are in both chans anyway
[04:15] <zul> then ask someone else in #ubuntu
[04:37] <zul> lamont: is that kernelpage valid?
[04:37] <zul> er...in the wiki
[04:38] <amu> seb128: gnome i18n will be extracted to the language-packs? 
[04:39] <lamont> zul: dunno
[04:40] <zul> works for me atleast 
[04:45] <seb128> amu: ?
[04:45] <seb128> amu: the mo files ? They already are in the packs
[04:46] <amu> seb128: ok, the problem is about 180mb kde-i18n which is a real waste of diskspace
[04:47] <Kamion> urgh, I never noticed that system-config-kickstart failed to build, damn
[04:47] <Kamion> hopefully fixed
[04:47] <seb128> amu: is that a way to say that kde is crap ? I know about it :p
[04:48] <seb128> amu: gnome has not global i18n package, every tarball include its translation
[04:49] <amu> Kamion: small problem, user install kubuntu, let's say he use the great german lang, how d-i knows that he should install kde-i18n-de ?    
[04:49] <Kamion> amu: it doesn't, yet
[04:49] <Kamion> we can fix that though - but not now :)
[04:49] <Kamion> s/now/today/
[04:49] <amu> seb128: hehe, finally it's the same, doent matter if your have i18n in a tarball or a sperate package :)
[04:50] <seb128> amu: it's really not the same, if you want to change 1 translation in kde-i18n you have to upload the whole stuff, that's insane
[04:51] <amu> Kamion: sure not today.   
[04:51] <Kamion> seb128: ... welcome to language packs :P
[04:51] <Mithrandir> seb128: old version works fine
[04:52] <amu> seb128: but after a release the langpacka and packages are static, means they will never change
[04:52] <seb128> amu: I was talking out of the language packs
[04:53] <seb128> amu: you don't have to deal with the 180M of kde-i18n with them
[04:55] <amu> seb128: sure, i'm talking also about langs stuff, i get a releae, and kde-i18n will be packaged. It will not updated anymore      
[04:56] <seb128> I think I don't get the question in fact
[04:57] <amu> let's say you have gnome 2.8 which is in warty.    
[04:57] <amu> lets say i have kde 3.2.3 in warty 
[04:58] <amu> it's the same size, if i have sperate i18n files compared to the i18n inside a package.     
[04:59] <seb128> correct
[05:03] <mantiena> Kamion, did you fixed bug "parted-udeb should depend not only on libc6 but also on libparted" ?
[05:03] <amu> the only possibility is, if we ship the d-i supported langs, guess it will be less than 50mb   
[05:03] <mantiena> amu, yea, ship at least d-i supported languages, lithuanian language is very important and takes little space ;)
[05:05] <amu> Kamion: could we speak monday afternoon about it?
[05:05] <amu> mantiena: if d-i supports *eg* 
[05:06] <mantiena> amu, do you think I told this if lithuanian language isn't in d-i ?
[05:06] <mantiena> :-P
[05:19] <Simira> smurfix: ping
[05:20] <smurfix> Simira: pong (, even)
[05:25] <goedson> I've just tried to upgrade my machine from warty to hoary and I'm not able to boot it anymore.
[05:27] <goedson> It isn't possible to run any program when try to boot it.
[05:27] <goedson> I get "Can't run /sbin/shutdown" when I hit CTRL+ALT+DEL on the console. 
[05:27] <goedson> Any ideas?
[06:00] <Kamion> mantiena: I have not been at my computer very much since last night. It's a weekend.
[06:01] <Kamion> amu: sure
[06:04] <mantiena> Kamion, ok, so I must report a bug ?
[06:07] <Kamion> 23:30 < Kamion> mantiena: well I haven't fixed it yet, so feel free to report :)
[06:10] <mantiena> Kamion, long memory ;)
[06:25] <Kamion> that said, I can fix libparted-udeb's provides now, which might fix it as a side-effect
[06:33] <Kamion> did somebody already mention to haggai that openoffice.org2 needs to be rebuilt against current libedataserver?
[06:56] <Kamion> mantiena: ok, I've just uploaded a fix to parted-udeb's dependencies
[07:02] <Mithrandir> seb128: the evo bug seems to be a bug not in evo, but something else involving libroken
[07:03] <seb128> any idea of what ?
[07:04] <Mithrandir> not sure, just linking something against eshell and roken triggers it.
[07:04] <seb128> k
[07:05] <Mithrandir> but then, linking against eshell means you link against 87 of the 90 libs evo links against. :P
[07:05] <Mithrandir> lamont: please adjust PaS to build avifile on amd64 as well
[07:07] <lamont> Mithrandir: done - now you just need elmo to sync pas...
[07:07] <Mithrandir> lamont: he does that once in a while by himself, or?
[07:08] <lamont> generally he gets nudged - although he may well get notified anyway
[07:08] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync PaS. :)
[07:12] <lamont> later Kamion 
[07:25] <T-Bone> hmm, today's iso seems to work fine on zx2000. let's see if elilo works as well
[07:30] <zul> T-Bone: how is it going?
[07:31] <T-Bone> zul: 'copying remaining packages' atm
[07:31] <zul> vool
[07:31] <T-Bone> without having to press 'ok' for a bogus reason at any time
[07:31] <T-Bone> which is pretty nice ;)
[07:32] <zul> worked on any ppc stuff?
[07:32] <T-Bone> no
[07:32] <T-Bone> had no time
[07:32] <zul> ok
[07:32] <T-Bone> hmm. Things aren't as smooth as it seems
[07:32] <T-Bone> the installation process went back to the general menu after setting up a normal user
[07:33] <T-Bone> 'configure apt' doesn't work. Nor does 'install bootloader' ;(
[07:38] <zul> hey mdz
[07:38] <mdz> hey
[07:38] <mdz> brb
[07:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: this is fun.  Link something with libroken and libpthread.
[07:40] <Mithrandir> on AMD64, it goes boom!
[07:46] <T-Bone> how bizarre. If i stick a 'set -x' in elilo-installer.postinst, the bootlaoder installs fine ;P
[08:07] <T-Bone> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1619 <- zul: is that actually a "bug"?
[08:09] <T-Bone> mdz: re what was said on u-devel: shouldn't 3281 be marked as NEEDINFO? it has remained without answer for several months, if we want not to forget it when sending reminders, maybe that kind of bugs should be tagged NEEDINFO?
[08:10] <mdz> T-Bone: bugzilla doesn't allow you to reassign a bug and mark it NEEDINFO in one step
[08:10] <mdz> so if they report against the wrong component, it generally won't be marked NEEDINFO
[08:11] <T-Bone> hmm. so we just let these bugs out in the void?
[08:20] <T-Bone> mptscsih issue on zx6000. gack
[08:24] <zul> T-Bone: not sure what to make of it
[08:24] <T-Bone> zul: 'it' ?
[08:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: why is kerberos support in evo enabled?
[08:24] <zul> 1619
[08:25] <T-Bone> ah ok
[08:25] <Mithrandir> at least, why is kerberos4 support enabled?
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  you busy?
[08:26] <T-Bone> zul: the problem is that among the huge number of bugs, seems that quite a lot are somehow 'irrelevant' (missing information, not for us and so on...) (not to mention what was said on u-devel: some needinfo bugs never got any additional feedback...)
[08:26] <T-Bone> zul: if we don't decide to take action on these somehow "dead bugs", the bug count will never decrease...
[08:28] <T-Bone> hmm, so as i suspected, Debian loads mptscsih at the same time it loads mptbase: from initrd
[08:28] <zul> T-Bone: i realize that my suggestion is see if there is any response to the bug and wait a couple of more days if there isnt a response then mark it as needinfo, users can re-open it
[08:29] <T-Bone> zul: ok, i roger that for 1619 (even tho the report is already several months), but if you look at 3281, last request for data is also several month old, without feedback...
[08:30] <zul> T-Bone: yeah its a needinfo
[08:33] <mdz> T-Bone: what "void"?
[08:34] <T-Bone> mdz: have you looked at 3281?
[08:34] <T-Bone> as zul noted, i think it should be tagged needinfo
[08:34] <mdz> T-Bone: of course.  If you look at the bug activity, you will see that I have looked at it several times.
[08:34] <T-Bone> yes.
[08:35] <mdz> you are both absolutely right that it should be marked NEEDINFO, and zul has actually marked it as such
[08:35] <T-Bone> several month ago. Hence my suggestion to mark it 'needinfo' so that when we'll start sending out advice before closing bugs for lack of feedback, it doesn't get forgotten
[08:35] <T-Bone> heh ;)
[08:36] <seb128> Mithrandir: why not ?
[08:36] <T-Bone> is there an easy way to netinstall Ubuntu? I mean *without* booting from CD
[08:36] <T-Bone> everything being done from network
[08:37] <mdz> yes, of course
[08:37] <T-Bone> mdz: can you educate me about that?
[08:37] <mdz> T-Bone: it is documented in the installation manual
[08:37] <mdz> and there are howtos in the wiki
[08:38] <T-Bone> hmm
[08:39] <T-Bone> on FrontPage, if i click on "Installing Ubuntu" it sends me to a rev search on "FirstSteps" but not to the FirstSteps page
[08:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: because libroken is broken.
[08:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: in fact evolution-exchange was built with it and not evolution/eds first, which breaks evolution-exchange
[08:44] <Mithrandir> it redefines h_errno, which breaks with pthread
[08:45] <seb128> hum
[08:46] <seb128> why does it break only on amd64 ?
[08:46] <Mithrandir> grep for "checking for h_errno" in the krb4 configure logs.
[08:46] <Mithrandir> anyhow, since I've tracked it down, I'm goddamn going to fix it as well
[08:46] <seb128> thanks!
[08:47] <sladen> T-Bone: if you ask on #ubuntu I can send you a tarball with all the necessary
[08:48] <mantiena> Kamion, so, no need to report parted dependancies bug :)
[08:49] <Mithrandir> this is fun:
[08:49] <Mithrandir> configure:34949: checking for h_errno
[08:49] <Mithrandir> configure:34973: gcc -o conftest -g  -g conftest.c -lresolv  >&5
[08:49] <Mithrandir> collect2: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault] 
[08:50] <zul> later..
[08:50] <T-Bone> sladen: are you being sarcastic?
[09:01] <sladen> T-Bone: to be fair, it would save me the hassle if you didn't ask :)
[09:02] <T-Bone> sladen: may I ask you what makes you being so downlooking at me?
[09:03] <T-Bone> hmm, in fact i don't care. I'll just ignore you from now on.
[09:15] <mdz> bluefoxicy: my followup to the list should adequately explain my position
[09:15] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  kay.
[09:17] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  the one to paul sladen?
[09:17] <mdz> no
[09:17] <bluefoxicy> ok.  *waits for his mail server to catch up then*
[09:25] <wasabi> package versioning question: I have an upstream which is versioned at 0.7.1pre3. I suspect they will release that as 0.7.1
[09:26] <wasabi> I thinking about this ~ thing I've been hearing about. Is this a good use for it? 0.7.1~pre3?
[09:26] <wasabi> i dont know if that's even good for ubuntu at this point though. ;l)
[09:34] <T-Bone> zul, lamont: ping?
[09:34] <sladen> mdz: mkisofs knows about shareing files between HFS/ISO volumes, I didn't look at intra-volume.  What's important for cloop is just the offsets, the actual 'file' can/could be the ISO device itself with cloop told to skip the first X sectors find its offset table at point N
[09:39] <mdz> sladen: right, hardlinks are sharing entire files under different names; you're talking about using pieces of multiple files at different offsets in a different file
[09:40] <mdz> anyway, off to SCALE
[09:40] <sladen> mdz: yup. (which is what the HFS/ISO sharing is, same sectors, different FS tables)
[09:50] <Mithrandir> checking for h_errno... yes
[09:50] <Mithrandir> checking if h_errno is properly declared... yes
[09:50] <Mithrandir> yay
[10:25] <AndyR> lo all
[10:27] <AndyR> can anyone please help me with a Xorg resolution prob using nv server, im only able to get 640x480
[10:39] <T-Bone> fabbione: ping, maybe? :)
[10:42] <thom> T-Bone: he's currently getting married, AIUI
[10:42] <T-Bone> thom: lol, true :)
[10:42] <daniels> yeah, fabbione is unpingable for a while
[10:42] <thom> so, unlikely to be available on irc
[10:43] <HrdwrBoB> apparently also IRCing on your honeymoon is bad form
[10:44] <T-Bone> hehe
[10:44] <thom> HrdwrBoB: yeah, i've heard that too
[10:44] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: hey, you can if you want ...
[10:46] <zenrox> but thay dont recomend it
[10:48] <daniels> taking your ps2, gta:sa, and a laptop for irc on your honeymoon cruise is generally considered bad form
[10:48] <HrdwrBoB> :/ that was what ambr said not me
[10:49] <zenrox> lol
[10:50] <T-Bone> anyone knows zul's email?
[10:51] <daniels> zul@gentoo.org
[10:51] <T-Bone> thx
[10:56] <mantiena> amu, still alive ?
[11:00] <mjg59> Hmm. Warty->Hoary upgrade is prompting me on a load of config files
[11:21] <haggai> Kamion: I'm doing a new OOo2 upload anyhow
[11:28] <Hwolf> haggai: Do you use OOo2?
[11:28] <amu> mantiena: yep
[11:29] <lamont> T-Bone: moo
[11:29] <haggai> Hwolf: not as much as I need to to find all the bugs :)
[11:29] <T-Bone> lamont: groo! Got mail
[11:30] <lamont> yeah - just reading it
[11:30] <Hwolf> haggai: Do you know how to have OOo2 put out a decent .doc?
[11:31] <haggai> Hwolf: I don't know what you mean.  I haven't tried exporting many .docs, only importing them
[11:32] <Hwolf> haggai: I need to do the exact oposite and send something I made to one of the poor sheep in this world that believes that word is the awnser for the world's problems.
[11:33] <Hwolf> haggai: and unlike in OOo1, in 2 I haven't had any luck.
[11:34] <opi> Hi there :)
[11:34] <haggai> Hwolf: I'm just uploading a new milstone, your problem could be fixed in there already
[11:34] <Hwolf> haggai: i'll try using it and reporting the bugs. I'm the guy whose mail you awnsered.
[11:35] <Hwolf> I feel that this one open bug for OO2 is lonely, it'd be rude to leave it so
[11:35] <jdub> good morning freedom lovers!
[11:36] <Hwolf> jdub, last time I checked, it was 11:36 pm
[11:36] <amu> moin jdub 
[11:36] <opi> Hwolf, mind a different time zones ;)
[11:36] <opi> hi jdub 
[11:36] <Nafallo> evening jdub :-)
[11:37] <Hwolf> opi: I'm reminding jdub of those. :-)
[11:37] <Mithrandir> ogra: around?
[11:38] <ogra> Mithrandir: yup
[11:38] <opi> I'm using Freesbie now, and I must say they did a nice job on FreeBSD/LiveCD
[11:38] <Nafallo> I just installed warty on my server (reinstalling now)
[11:38] <opi> it's not as good as Ubuntu :-> but still useful
[11:38] <opi> smurfix, ping
[11:39] <smurfix> opi: 
[11:39] <Nafallo> base-config looped at first boot see ;-)
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: could you test the nautilus stuff for me?  I think I have a fix.
[11:39] <opi> smurfix, hi. So, can we talk about setting up moinmoin under ubuntu-pl.org? :)
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: it requires you to upgrade to the broken version and installing http://err.no/tmp/libroken16-kerberos4kth_1.2.2-11.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: if that works, we're in business.
[11:39] <opi> smurfix, unless your package is still not ready :)
[11:40] <ogra> Mithrandir: okay
[11:40] <Nafallo> like "info: something about ISO-8859-1\nstarting base-config" and those lines looped ;-)
[11:40] <Mithrandir> ogra: if that doesn't work, but evo starts, we're halfway there. :)
[11:40] <smurfix> opi: Sure. No it isn't ready but that doesn't stop me any more, I've hacked an installation on my system anyway.
[11:40] <opi> smurfix, ok, what should I provide you with? :)
[11:41] <Nafallo> the only thing I can think of that I didn't do was that I skipped copying the cd to harddrive. might that be the reason for this behavior?
[11:41] <haggai> Hwolf: ah, ok thanks
[11:41] <smurfix> opi: an ssh pubkey, in gpg-signed email
[11:42] <Hwolf> Haggai: will OOo2 be a replacement for 1 in the final hoary?
[11:42] <opi> smurfix, well, d'oh! I need to google how to set gpg for Thunderbird
[11:42] <Mithrandir> opi: install m-t-enigmail
[11:42] <Mithrandir> Hwolf: I doubt it.
[11:42] <opi> Mithrandir, thanks
[11:42] <opi> I need to write it down
[11:43] <haggai> Hwolf: hopefully but it does need to be reasonably stable
[11:43] <opi> smurfix, I'll write you back.
[11:43] <Hwolf> haggai: then why is OOo1 in warty? :-S
[11:43] <Mithrandir> haggai: how does ooo2 look 64bit-wise?
[11:46] <haggai> Mithrandir: apparently there are enough patches working now to be able to start it without it crashing :-/
[11:46] <Mithrandir> that's a start..
[11:46] <Hwolf> haggai: Intel is starting to enable it on it's celerons, and it's in that state... :-S
[11:46] <ogra> Mithrandir: you won 
[11:46] <ogra> Mithrandir: :-D
[11:47] <Mithrandir> ogra: it worked completely?
[11:47] <ogra> Mithrandir: it not only starts....it also works ;)
[11:47] <Mithrandir> _YAY_
[11:47] <Mithrandir> that rocks.
[11:47] <ogra> YEP
[11:51] <Hwolf> haggai: so you don't know about word-compatibility?
[11:52] <T-Bone> lamont: any feedback on what I said in the mail?
[11:58] <lamont> T-Bone: uh.. none yet :-)
[11:59] <T-Bone> lamont: lol. I'd especially like some feedback about the last question ;)
[12:00] <lamont> aucun?