[03:43] <froud> enrico, 
[03:43] <enrico> Hello froud!
[03:43] <froud> deb packages
[03:43] <enrico> Nice to see you!
[03:43] <froud> u 2
[03:43] <enrico> u 2?
[03:43] <froud> nice to see you to
[03:44] <froud> how can I help
[03:44] <enrico> Just sent a mail to the list, with the current status of the .debs
[03:44] <froud> got your message. Ok Ok hold must read
[03:44] <enrico> Things build fine (I updated the makefile to set XML_CATALOG_FILES on Debian)
[03:45] <enrico> But two issues to solve: 
[03:45] <enrico> 1) Installing the .xml files
[03:45] <enrico> 2) Putting the right images in every .deb
[03:45] <enrico> (and, if solvable, 3. Package .pdf versions as well)
[03:45] <froud> My, my you want three packages :-)
[03:46] <froud> Why not do one
[03:46] <froud> I have not catered for three packages
[03:46] <enrico> Because one may want to deinstall the 7+Mb of the QuickGuide while keeping the FAQGuide, for example
[03:46] <froud> I will have to change the make and filter images to the various dirs
[03:46] <enrico> Or we may want to put ABout Ubuntu and release notes on some core part of the distro and the rest outside
[03:47] <froud> OK, I will have to add an XSL and incorporate it into the make
[03:47] <enrico> Want to work together on some make install?
[03:47] <froud> I will only get to tomorrow morn
[03:48] <froud> sure, though I dont know about deb installs
[03:48] <froud> with your expert guidance anything is possible
[03:48] <enrico> I can solve the deb install part
[03:48] <froud> ok
[03:48] <enrico> Ok, so now I'll send the packages to mdz, so that we set a foot in Hoary, then we try to make things better
[03:48] <froud> good
[03:48] <enrico> I'm also wondering how to install the .xml files so that yelp can browse them fine even if not all of them are installed
[03:48] <froud> what do you need make install to do on debs'
[03:49] <enrico> However, we can make faqguide and quickguide depend on ubuntu-docs
[03:49] <froud> Hmmm, best was to rely on the HTML, but I understand you want to have yelp to
[03:50] <froud> I am not sure how yelp finds its stuff
[03:50] <enrico> make install is usually the program that installs what's generated by make into its final destination (say, /usr/share/doc/something)
[03:50] <enrico> Ok, that's some info to dig out
[03:50] <froud> yes, something with scrollkeeper
[03:50] <froud> we dont have a unique key for ubuntu their
[03:50] <enrico> My problem was how to install, for example, the entities
[03:50] <froud> threr
[03:51] <enrico> all the parts that are shared between teh various documents
[03:51] <froud> so long as the xml dir structure is the same as in svn it will just work
[03:51] <froud> I will create a target for you
[03:51] <enrico> uhm... so I could install the things in some common directory.  I'll ask for advice
[03:52] <froud> yeak a common dir under usr/share/doc/
[03:52] <froud> yeak a common dir under usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc
[03:52] <enrico> yes.  Now I ask if it's allowed by policy: hang on
[03:52] <froud> yes
[03:52] <froud> Oh ok
[03:55] <enrico> uhm... I asked on ubuntu/devel but I think I've been too verbose and people ignored me
[03:58] <enrico> So far I'm being fairly ignored.  Let's wait a bit...
[03:59] <froud> I tried asking about this stuff about a month ago and got the same result
[03:59] <froud> OK so here is what you need
[03:59] <froud> 1. Make target to be able to package each HTML version seperately
[04:00] <froud> 2. Make target to get pristine copy of xml sources
[04:00] <froud> is that it
[04:00] <Kinnison> Shared stuff should go somewhere like /usr/share/ubuntu-doc/...
[04:00] <Kinnison> Documentation about the 'ubuntu-doc' package belongs in '/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc'
[04:01] <froud> Kinnison, agreed
[04:01] <froud> so you want html dirs for each book
[04:01] <enrico> Kinnison: what if the shared stuff is documentation?  Like images used by the documentation, things like that?
[04:01] <froud> and an XML direc for the sources
[04:01] <Kinnison> enrico: Hmm
[04:01] <Kinnison> enrico: are they shared between different books?
[04:01] <enrico> yes
[04:02] <froud> At present we have one folder for all images
[04:02] <enrico> and no
[04:02] <Kinnison> Hmm
[04:02] <enrico> some yes, most no
[04:02] <Kinnison> I'd imagine putting everything inside /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/... then
[04:02] <froud> Kinnison, +1
[04:02] <Kinnison> I was imagining XML stuff going in /usr/share/ubuntu-doc
[04:02] <Kinnison> Entity docs and the like
[04:02] <enrico> I thought about making a single package, but the QuickGuide is 7+Mb and it's only an intro, so someone might want to deinstall that at some point
[04:02] <Kinnison> Then again; I'm not totally au-fait with the docbook way of doing things
[04:03] <froud> enrico, Kinnison 
[04:03] <froud> it's no problem to install the xml in this location
[04:03] <froud> and make individual packages
[04:04] <froud> enrico, you know when you do the make you get the build/
[04:04] <enrico> So, xml things go in /usr/share/ubuntu-doc, and the HTML gets separated in three independent things to install in /usr/share/doc/{ubuntu-doc,ubuntu-faqguide,ubuntu-quickguide}
[04:04] <enrico> But where do we put the images that are in common between the XML and the HTML?
[04:05] <froud> Just hold let me draw this
[04:06] <Kinnison> remember, it has to be /usr/share/doc/<binarypackagename>
[04:06] <Kinnison> so that would imply an ubuntu-doc, ubuntu-faqguide and ubuntu-quickguide package each
[04:07] <enrico> Can I install symliks in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs pointing at /usr/share/ubuntu-docs?
[04:07] <enrico> Kinnison: but it can be that ubuntu-faqguide installs stuff in /usr/share/ubuntu-docs?
[04:08] <froud> is this what you mean
[04:08] <froud> /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-doc-xml/ as it is now just pristine
[04:08] <froud> 
[04:08] <froud>                 /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-quickguide/
[04:08] <froud>                 /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-quickguide/images/
[04:08] <froud> 
[04:08] <froud>                 /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-faqguide/
[04:08] <froud>                 /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-faqguide/images/
[04:09] <froud> enrico, symlinks are allowed
[04:09] <enrico> No, that appearently isn't possible because the ubuntu-faqguide package can only install in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-faqguide (according to what Kinnison seems to have just said)
[04:09] <enrico> I was thinking about making:
[04:09] <enrico> /usr/share/ubuntu-doc/xml
[04:09] <enrico> /usr/share/ubuntu-doc/images
[04:10] <enrico> and then installing all XML and images there
[04:10] <enrico> then separating the HTML and the images into their respective packages.  Images that are used by more than one package go in the ubuntu-docs package
[04:10] <froud> why not just have the trunk as it now then, just under ubuntu-doc/
[04:11] <enrico> The various packages install images in /usr/share/ubuntu-doc/images, and install symlinks to them in /usr/share/doc/<package>/images so that HTML documentation works
[04:11] <froud> that's fine
[04:12] <froud> but the path must be ../images/
[04:12] <enrico> sure: and we stuff symlinks in there
[04:13] <enrico> I'll try to put together something like that.  I'll probably need something that tells me which images are used by which document
[04:13] <froud> so long as there is a images link in the root and html packages are installed relative to that root it will work
[04:13] <froud> I have an XSL to to this
[04:13] <enrico> Oh, cool!  Could you please commit it in the repo?
[04:13] <froud> but need to integrate it to the system
[04:14] <froud> I think the best think is that you send me an email with the exact dir structure you want and I will create the system to do it that way
[04:14] <froud> so what you get in build/ will be what you want for dist
[04:15] <froud> However, if a person does uninstall qg
[04:16] <froud> it will also remove images shared by other documents
[04:16] <froud> including the xml
[04:16] <froud> if we have each HTML version of the book seperate with its images relative, this wont happen
[04:17] <Kinnison> Your best bet is to make some packages; see what people think / ask the opinion of some real ubuntu packagers; and then fix them as needed
[04:17] <froud> It means duplication
[04:17] <froud> no worries
[04:17] <enrico> Kinnison: I was about to do that, but I need to have some base knowledge to start from
[04:18] <froud> The current system was designed to reuse as much as possible to reduce on disk usage
[04:18] <enrico> froud: please commit that XSL into the repo, I'll try to see what I can do with the rest
[04:18] <Kinnison> (side note: was someone here asking about my keysigning stuff?)
[04:18] <enrico> Kinnison: I use caff
[04:18] <froud> enrico, I will, but I must modify first and incorporate it into the system
[04:18] <enrico> (how to the XML files refer to images? ../images ?)
[04:19] <enrico> I had a look at /usr/share/gnome/help and saw more issues, like l18n
[04:20] <froud> He, he C/
[04:20] <froud> yes all images refs start ../image
[04:21] <froud> oh I see that XSL is in the libs dir
[04:21] <enrico> Ok, could make sense.  Let's see what I Can do
[04:21] <froud> but it wont work in present state
[04:21] <froud> enrico, take a look at libs/foImageList.xsl
[04:22] <enrico> Doesn't that only give things related to fo?
[04:22] <froud> It was something I used in another project
[04:22] <froud> yes, that's what it wont work
[04:22] <froud> also it's not in context
[04:23] <froud> I seem to remember putting it there cause I knew we would need it later
[04:23] <froud> so I will modify it and incorporate it to the make
[04:24] <enrico> froud: please just make it work, then I can maybe make a script that outputs the list of images for a given package
[04:24] <enrico> That'd be already enough to me to work on
[04:24] <froud> well the xsl does that
[04:24] <froud> leave it with me I will have a working solution in svn by tomorrow night 
[04:25] <froud> will this be in time?
[04:27] <enrico> I think so.  However, I may already have solved the problem by that, and just need your revision :)
[04:27] <enrico> I'm installing all the .xml files in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/C/
[04:28] <enrico> All the images in in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/C/images
[04:28] <enrico> Then, link farm in /usr/share/doc/*
[04:28] <enrico> then I'll see what happens
[04:29] <froud> Hmm I would not put the link farm in /usr/share/doc/*
[04:29] <froud> rather /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/
[04:31] <froud> rather /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/
[04:32] <enrico> Sure: /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs, /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-faqguide, /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-quickguide
[04:32] <froud> where /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-faqguide, /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-quickguide hold the HTML versions and each has images relative to it
[04:33] <enrico> yes
[04:33] <enrico> the images would be symlinks to /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C/images/*
[04:33] <froud> you need symlink in /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/images(ln)/
[04:34] <froud> just one
[04:34] <enrico> uh... yes!
[04:34] <enrico> that's utterly ansolutely true!
[04:35] <enrico> thanks!! Saved me lots!
[04:36] <froud> ln /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C/images/ images
[04:37] <froud> so what's left for me to do :-)
[04:37] <enrico> the XSL that tells me what images are used by a given document
[04:37] <enrico> I can use that to see what packages I shuold put the images in
[04:38] <froud> OK, the way I did it before was that the xsl writes atext file containing the list of images found in the xml
[04:38] <froud> then the make just did a cp of that image list to the directory
[04:39] <froud> qg has the picture
[04:39] <froud> qg has the pictures
[04:39] <enrico> It's ok if you just spit a list of image filenames to standard output
[04:40] <froud> but they both use images/navig/ and images/admon/
[04:40] <froud> ok stdout is fine but its better to input by reading the list from a file, no?
[04:41] <enrico> No: I can do    for i in `xsltproc [stuff] `
[04:41] <enrico> Or send it to a file with >file.list if needed
[04:41] <enrico> If it's not a burden.  If it's easier to a file I can do
[04:41] <enrico> for i in `cat file.list` :)
[04:41] <froud> No the XSL is what writes the file
[04:42] <froud> dont worry about it, I will make it so you just run make dist
[04:42] <froud> run and forget
[04:42] <froud> :-)
[04:43] <froud> you worry about the deb stuff
[04:43] <froud> agreed :-)
[04:48] <enrico> agreed, but I think you won't need to make that build/ work
[04:49] <froud> why not
[04:49] <froud> if we have it once we will have it for furture no?
[04:49] <enrico> because I'm doing all the work in the debian packageing already
[04:49] <froud> future
[04:49] <froud> Ah ha,       ok
[04:49] <froud> :-)
[04:50] <froud> So I will just do that XSL
[04:50] <froud> and see how you work in the deb stuff
[04:50] <enrico> ok
[04:50] <froud> I normally just make a directory and tarball it for the packagers
[04:50] <enrico> images/{admon,callouts,navig} are used by all the docs, isn't it?
[04:50] <froud> but you want to skip that
[04:50] <froud> yes
[04:51] <froud> btw you should not just copy the XML dirs
[04:51] <enrico> why not?
[04:51] <froud> you need to do an svn export or else you will have all the .svn dirs
[04:51] <froud> and they can be many Meg
[04:52] <enrico> Sure: I do things with an svn export
[04:52] <enrico> I mean, I do a svn export, then I build the package
[04:52] <froud> yes
[04:52] <enrico> the debian tools complain if they see .svn directories in the source 
[04:52] <froud> in fact the whole build thing should be done on an svn export
[04:53] <enrico> we have two .gif images: are they used?
[04:53] <froud> that's why I had started make dist
[04:54] <froud> the cc images yes
[04:54] <enrico> can I convert them to png?
[04:54] <froud> all docs should use them in the license sections
[04:54] <froud> no you cant :-)
[04:54] <enrico> buuu... why
[04:54] <enrico> ?
[04:54] <froud> not unless we change the source
[04:55] <enrico> I can convert them and change the source
[04:55] <enrico> can I ?  :)
[04:55] <froud> the xml looks for gif
[04:55] <froud> Ho humk, if you must :-)
[04:55] <enrico> no source is using those, appearently, anyway
[04:56] <enrico> (just did an rgrep)
[04:56] <froud> but change legalnotice.xml to
[04:56] <enrico> do you confirm?
[04:58] <froud> yes, you are right, they are not being used
[04:58] <enrico> so I convert them before you use them :
[04:58] <enrico> :)
[04:58] <froud> it was removed when I did the lic stuff with mako
[04:58] <froud> :-)
[04:59] <froud> Just dont change gifs in images/navig
[04:59] <enrico> converted (and ocmmitted)!  They are smaller, too.
[04:59] <enrico> bastard!  More gifs!
[05:00] <froud> yes :-)
[05:00] <enrico> Distributing gifs is impolite
[05:00] <enrico> but at least if they are in images/navig I care less
[05:00] <enrico> (that is, I was doing a *.png :)
[05:00] <Kinnison> gifs suck
[05:00] <Kinnison> use PNGs
[05:01] <froud> the navig gifs have transparent backgrounds
[05:01] <enrico> PNGs can have transparent background, too
[05:01] <Kinnison> PNGs can have alpha channels in them
[05:01] <froud> easier to match header and footer colors in chunked output
[05:02] <froud> well if you see how small they are you dont want to mess with them
[05:02] <froud> I tried a convert to png and did not like the result
[05:02] <froud> perhap you can do it
[05:17] <enrico> testing...
[05:25] <enrico> OH COOLNESS
[05:26] <enrico> It works quite well
[05:26] <enrico> It now just misses splitting the images in teh various packages
[05:26] <enrico> committed
[05:26] <enrico> sending a mail in the list
[05:29] <froud> ok, I have to get ready to go out. Valentines dinner
[05:29] <froud> c ya
[05:29] <enrico> WoW!  Have a lovely evening!
[05:39] <enrico> Committed.   Announced.   Now I deserve a walk out
[05:39] <enrico> brb
[05:42] <enrico> froud, Kinnison: BTW, big compliments!  The resulting packaging is IMHO quite cool!