[12:04] <whiprush> jdub: I'll do a big blog post.
[12:05] <Hwolf> whiprush, what are you talking about?
[12:06] <zul> hey
[12:06] <jdub> whiprush: sweet ;)
[12:07] <zul> lamont: thanks for doing the upload
[12:09] <Keybuk> can we put figlet into ubuntu-base? :p
[12:12] <smurfix> What's with d-i(ubuntu11)'s build/Makefile? installing a nonexistent trc.sh seems not to work particularly well ...
[12:13] <Kamion> I just made my fiancee laugh with figlet "Happy Valentine's Day!" | cowsay -n
[12:13] <smurfix> ah, my fault
[12:14] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debian-installer/debian-installer-20041227ubuntu
[12:14] <Kamion> 11>$ grep trc build/Makefile
[12:14] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debian-installer/debian-installer-20041227ubuntu
[12:14] <Kamion> 11>$
[12:14] <smurfix> Kamion: my fault, I misapplied a local patch
[12:16] <zul> mjg59: ping when you get a chance there are some ibm thinkpad acpi suspend patches that you can look at for me
[12:16] <smurfix> Anybody know if/when mdz'll be back?
[12:19] <Mithrandir> seb128: it wasn't a nautilus bug at all -- it was a bug in openbox which set the _NET_WORKAREA to insane values.
[12:20] <mjg59> zul: Hi
[12:21] <zul> mjg59: http://zulinux.homelinuz.net/ubuntu/kernel/patches/acpi
[12:21] <Mithrandir> hm, I need an ia64 to try to reproduce this problem.
[12:21] <zul> mjg59: its the thinkpad_suspend patches
[12:22] <zul> mjg59: they were taken from the ac tree
[12:22] <Gagatan> Mithrandir: want a beer? *cheers*
[12:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: oh ok
[12:23] <Mithrandir> Gagatan: I'm going home for some whisky, I think.
[12:23] <ogra> Mithrandir: so thats why i never saw it in metacity :)
[12:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: that explains why there is no bug in bugzilla :p
[12:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: it got triggered by the 64 bit fixes in nautilus, though.
[12:23] <Gagatan> just finished the bottle of Noilly Prat with some iced tea
[12:23] <Mithrandir> ogra: yup, metacity is fine -- it uses a long * instead of a guint32 *
[12:24] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, I was thinking to the 64bits/desktop patch 
[12:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: it just triggered it; I've got insane values like this for _NET_WORKAREA:
[12:24] <ogra> heh
[12:24] <Mithrandir> _NET_WORKAREA(CARDINAL) = 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 768, 0, 177, 2531391064, 2531391064, 768, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
[12:24] <Mithrandir> I wonder how it has _ever_ worked, tho
[12:25] <seb128> yeah
[12:25] <zul> mjg59: if they were ok i was going to add them to -18
[12:25] <mjg59> zul: Hm. I thought we had those already.
[12:25] <zul> lemme check
[12:26] <mjg59> zul: Yeah, they're in already
[12:26] <zul> ok cool
[12:26] <mjg59> I picked those up a while ago - they're needed to get interrupts working after swsusp resume
[12:26] <zul> gotcha
[12:28] <zul> bbl
[12:30] <lamont> jdub: about 45 min to build the rootfs
[12:48] <pitti> night everybody
[12:59] <jdub> lamont: ah, ta
[12:59] <jdub> lamont: on superdooper hardware, i guess?
[01:03] <mjg59> Hrmph.
[01:04] <mjg59> No, that time it just rebooted again.
[01:10] <mjg59> Bah. Seems to have been a freak occurance.
[01:14] <lamont> jdub: that's on the data center machines, yes
[01:14] <lamont> but for local hackery, you can skip a couple steps, and then it's just time to debootstrap+apt-get install ubuntu-desktop+about 5 minutes for locales
[01:14] <lamont> if you have a local mirror, it's not bad at all.
[01:14] <lamont> we burn about 15 minutes in the name of rsync-ability
[01:15] <lamont> too many honey-dos to do today
[01:29] <jdub> lamont: aha
[01:29] <jdub> lamont: ok, i might be able to build them here then
[01:30] <jdub> lamont: got the rootfs script handy?
[01:30] <Mithrandir> daniels: the docs for XChangeProperty is wrong, or the implementation is.
[01:30] <sivang> just installed installed a new hoary daily build, worked as a charm - does anybody know why it seems to not allow me to put grub onto the SATA /dev/sda ? (first SATA disk)
[01:33] <sivang> (maybe grub won't ever boot from a sata drive)
[01:34] <Mithrandir> sivang: grub is happy with SATA drives
[01:34] <sivang> Mithrandir: hmm, then maybe a too-much-autoconfiguring d-i ? ;-)
[01:34] <Mithrandir> no idea. :)
[01:34] <sivang> it said something like "are you happy with installing the boot loader to the first drive's master boot record"
[01:35] <sivang> and I answered yes, as in "sure, this is my SATA drive currently" and he ended it up in /dev/hdb weird :)
[01:37] <Mithrandir> it depends on the order of the drives in your bios
[01:38] <sivang> Mithrandir: hmm, interesting. I explicitly made the SATA one boot first , oh well, never mind, I'll put grub on the SATA drive manually :)
[01:41] <ogra> :(
[01:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: hopefully, they'll go away once hoary is actually out.
[01:43] <ajmitch> they're complaining about not having the latest software in hoary already :)
[01:43] <Mithrandir> and it's part of the "price" way pay for the community -- some do what the developers consider unwise, but there's nothing we can do to stop them (and it's probably not worth the effort)
[01:43] <ogra> Mithrandir: <BockBilbo> but in this period of "featurefreeze" there is no oportunity to have the latest software
[01:43] <Mithrandir> which software is he missing?
[01:43] <ajmitch> he was wanting php5
[01:43] <ogra> Mithrandir: the latest ;)
[01:44] <Mithrandir> uhm, uhm.
[01:44] <Mithrandir> that has nothing to do with feature freeze, really, but more that php5 isn't really ready.
[01:45] <Gagatan> php5 is in "new packages" back in debian iirc... /me seconds Mithrandir on that one
[01:45] <ogra> Mithrandir: but if it gets released one day before hoary, you got your first backports candidate
[01:46] <ajmitch> Gagatan: maybe, just maybe it could go into universe, if we're allowed :)
[01:46] <Mithrandir> Gagatan: I'm talking with \infty at least once a day and he's grumpy enough about php4. :P
[01:46] <Gagatan> Mithrandir: hey, who isn't ;)
[01:46] <dholbach> re
[01:46] <ajmitch> wb dholbach 
[01:46] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: people would start using it despite it not being supported, security-wise and all
[01:46] <Mithrandir> hiya Daniel
[01:47] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: and you'd be lucky to find a MOTU willing to support it, I think
[01:47] <Mithrandir> true
[01:48] <ajmitch> it's a package that I would like, but I don't know it well enough to support
[01:50] <dholbach> what package are you talking about?
[01:50] <ajmitch> php5
[01:50] <dholbach> ah ok
[01:51] <mdz> Kamion: still up?
[01:56] <dilinger> Mithrandir: funny, the impression i get from infinity is that he's having lots of fun w/ php4 :)
[02:01] <zul> hey dilinger 
[02:02] <ogra> mdz: 5870 was closed yesterday.... just no bug update yet
[02:02] <dilinger> zul: hello
[02:03] <lamont> hrm... guess I should fix mplayer for folks...
[02:06] <zul> heh
[02:07] <lamont> I mean, they seem to be the same questions we did or didn't ask in the first place....
[02:26] <thully> hi - any plans to improve userland wireless support in Hoary?  I've had some major problems getting my wireless to work well using only the default tools.
[02:26] <zul> eventually i guess
[02:27] <thully> I've logged bugs on a few - including the fact that configuring my wi-fi in GNOME causes the entire system to wait for a wireless network for 20sec on boot...
[02:27] <dholbach> i'm off to bed happily - just did my first 3 uploads ;-)
[02:27] <dholbach> sleep tight everyone
[02:34] <lamont> firecall
[02:43] <mdz> lamont:    http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6484
[03:30] <wasabi> Are versionings containing ~ allowed in Ubuntu at this point?
[03:30] <wasabi> s/versionings/versions/
[03:50] <zenwhen> i just wanyted to tell you all that Ubuntu runs perfectly on this old P2266Mhz laptop with 160MB of ram using XFCE.
[03:50] <zenwhen> Everything "just works".
[03:50] <zenwhen> wanted*
[03:51] <zenwhen> Hoary
[03:59] <helix> every time I look in here I see usual's quit message
[04:11] <kent> helix, perhaps you live in a timezone which most other dont? so you always get here when we go to sleap ;)
[04:11] <helix> maybe
[04:11] <dilinger> helix: it's a sign.  watch more kevin smith movies.
[04:11] <helix> nooo
[04:30] <jdub> okay
[04:30] <jdub> something is pushing my clock forward an hour
[04:30] <jdub> and no reboot is involved
[04:30] <jdub> ntpdate fixes it up
[04:30] <jdub> not running ntp
[04:32] <HrdwrBoB> that happened to me after I upgraded to hoary on the weekend
[04:32] <HrdwrBoB> I put it down to bizarre space aliens tampering with DST
[04:45] <lamont> mdz: cool
[05:02] <lamont> hrm... sound is busted
[05:04] <lamont> hrm... scanner works on the laptop, but not when connected to the desktop (which has cupsys configured to talk to the printer...)
[05:06] <wasabi> Is ~ allowed in the Ubuntu archive?
[05:06] <wasabi> It's very useful. =)
[05:06] <wasabi> (versioning)
[05:09] <lamont> wasabi: pretty sure the answer is 'not yet', if you're talking about version numbers
[05:09] <wasabi> Yeah, i am.
[05:11] <wasabi> So, any suggetsions on this version number? I have a package, gjdoc.... It's a CVS checkout. It is labeld 0.7.1pre3. My checkout is post pre3, but pre pre4 (or release).
[05:12] <wasabi> Was going to do 0.7.1~pre3.20050212 which is very clear and very useful... but apparently not. =)
[05:12] <infinity> 0.7.0.99pre3.20050212
[05:12] <wasabi> oh hi. =)
[05:13] <wasabi> thx for your help on the other side heh.
[05:13] <infinity> I'm stalking you.  <nod>
[05:17] <infinity> Mithrandir : php5 for hoary would be a mistake.  php5 in debian is still a mystery right now (what's in queue/new almost certainly shouldn't be there)
[05:21] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:24] <mdz> kent: helix lives in a time zone apart from the rest of the world ;-)
[05:24] <helix> my timezone is awesome
[05:24] <mdz> you're somewhere in the middle of the pacific I think
[05:25] <helix> I wish
[05:25] <mdz> or perhaps you're in Antarctica, and can just run around the pole and change time zones at will
[05:26] <helix> I live in an igloo and frolic with polar bears
[05:31] <farruinn> in antartica?
[05:31] <helix> yes
[05:32] <mdz> there are no polar bears in Antarctica
[05:32] <helix> have you ever been here?
[05:33] <mdz> no, I wish
[05:33] <farruinn> and the Inuits live in the arctic as well
[05:33] <farruinn> (although I'm sure you could build igloos in antarctica if you wished)
[05:34] <mdz> building polar bears is trickier
[05:34] <helix> mdz: could I call myself an antarctist?
[05:34] <mdz> helix: I suppose you could say you practice antarcty
[05:35] <helix> heh
[05:35] <fabbione> ehehe
[05:37] <helix> what kind of music is that?
[05:37] <mdz> cheesy 80s tunes
[05:37] <mdz> specifically "up all night"
[05:38] <helix> I like lionel richie's "fiesta" for those kinds of moods
[05:38] <helix> I think it's lionel richie
[05:38] <jdub> billy ocean
[05:39] <helix> nah, it's lionel richie
[05:39] <helix> "all night long"
[05:39] <helix> billy ocean sang that o/~ get outta my dreams, get into my car o/~ song
[05:45] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[05:45] <daniels> pong, yo
[05:46] <daniels> i'm just eating lunch, be with you in a sec
[05:46] <fabbione> daniels: sure
[05:46] <fabbione> enjoy :-)
[05:46] <daniels> pasta :)
[05:46] <fabbione> ehehhe
[05:55] <mdz> I bet fabbione's pasta could beat up your pasta
[05:59] <daniels> hey, don't hate on my pasta
[05:59] <daniels> gnocchi is love
[05:59] <daniels> as is sugar.  mmm, sugar.
[06:00] <mdz> I don't like sugar
[06:00] <mdz> I like starch
[06:00] <helix> mmm, potatoes
[06:00] <mdz> and protein, mm, protein
[06:00] <mdz> glorious legumes
[06:00] <crimsun> gotta control my carb intake
[06:00] <helix> legumes++
[06:00] <helix> mdz: you're ruining my fast ;(
[06:00] <fabbione> pasta++
[06:01] <mdz> helix: serves you right for having an eat-a-thon without me
[06:01] <helix> dude, that's so unfair
[06:01] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/pasta/
[06:01] <helix> I begged you to come
[06:01] <mdz> and I told you I had a prior engagement :-(
[06:01] <daniels> mdz: sugar is wakey
[06:01] <mdz> there is so much good food in nyc
[06:01] <helix> mdz: yeah, but those are mostly gone
[06:01] <helix> and I'm there for 10 days!
[06:01] <daniels> fabbione: i'll chuck all my stuff on chinstrap in a sec, just need to clean up this script
[06:02] <helix> that's like, forever
[06:02] <helix> stuff could move into debian testing in 10 days
[06:02] <fabbione> daniels: sure. i am digging into esd stuff... do you know what starts it?
[06:02] <mdz> hahaha
[06:02] <fabbione> daniels: i can't find any reference in /etc
[06:02] <daniels> fabbione: i assume it's started by gnome-session
[06:02] <mdz> helix: in this case there is this heavy soname transition going on
[06:02] <helix> word to sonames
[06:03] <helix> mdz: wait, and you're involved in it?
[06:03] <mdz> helix: booo
[06:03] <helix> :)
[06:04] <helix> mdz: I'm still not seeing the problem. pretty much all of NYC has a wireless connection.
[06:04] <helix> you could work anywhere!
[06:04] <fabbione> daniels: hmm and where do we tell gnome-session to start esd?
[06:05] <mdz> helix: this is a personal trip, not a professional one
[06:05] <mdz> I'm visiting my family
[06:05] <daniels> fabbione: i don't know sorry ... ez gtk boog
[06:05] <helix> I'll keep trying
[06:05] <daniels> fabbione: you'd really have to ask seb or jdub on this one
[06:05] <mdz> my mother has been sick :-/
[06:05] <daniels> mdz: hope everything turns out ok
[06:06] <jdub> fabbione: gnome-session does it itself, see sound properties
[06:06] <helix> mdz: oops :( *hugs*
[06:06] <mdz> I don't think she's dying, but I can never get the truth out of her over the phone
[06:06] <daniels> jdub: what we need to do is have esd start with a variable device
[06:06] <fabbione> HMM
[06:07] <fabbione> there is also the problem that esd is limited
[06:07] <mdz> speaking of sonames, /me uploads flac
[06:07] <mdz> where all _four_ of its shared libraries have been incremented this time
[06:07] <helix> * the_world waits in horror
[06:07] <crimsun> mdz: 1.1.2?
[06:07] <mdz> crimsun: yes
[06:07] <crimsun> mdz: joy!
[06:08] <jdub> daniels: aha
[06:08] <jdub> mdz: is charles going to hate you for this?
[06:08] <mdz> jdub: well, I'm only uploading it to Debian so far
[06:09] <mdz> I don't see any particular justification for a FeatureFreeze exception in Ubuntu
[06:09] <helix> oh, nice. "in case it breaks, muahahaha"
[06:09] <mdz> though, it does fix a versioning error
[06:09] <mdz> 1.1.1 changed ABI without a soname increment in one of the libraries
[06:09] <mdz> i don't think it's used in Ubuntu main
[06:10] <crimsun> I've triggered the id3v1 tag bug that's fixed in 1.1.2, actually
[06:10] <crimsun> but I'll deal :)
[06:11] <mdz> jdub: I think charles has only done a couple of packages so far
[06:16] <fabbione> daniels, jdub: sometimes between today and xmas? :P
[06:26] <daniels> Kamion: ping?
[06:28] <_mvo_> daniels: he's very likely sleeping
[06:30] <daniels> mmm, true
[06:30] <daniels> mdz: do you know how to get a mini.iso out of the daily build?
[06:31] <mdz> daniels: it's in there somewhere
[06:32] <daniels> mdz: i'm kicking cron.daily by hand, and no mini.iso is forthcoming
[06:32] <mdz> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/daily-installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[06:32] <daniels> mdz: right, but I need to kick my own
[06:32] <daniels> mdz: need a cd with l-i -17 installed
[06:32] <mdz> make netboot_blah_blah
[06:32] <mdz> daniels: install or live?
[06:33] <mdz> isn't -17 the current version in hoary?
[06:33] <daniels> mdz: install
[06:33] <mdz> I could roll a build on little for you
[06:33] <daniels> mdz: i have cdimage access to little, dude
[06:33] <mdz> so what do you need exactly?
[06:33] <daniels> mdz: i kicked a build with cron.daily and environment variables up the hizzay, but /srv/cdimage.u.c/scratch doesn't have a mini.iso
[06:33] <mdz> a fresher d-i build?
[06:33] <mdz> dude, you are in the wrong place
[06:33] <daniels> yeah, a mini.iso built for i386 with what's in the archive now
[06:33] <mdz> mini.iso is built by d-i
[06:33] <mdz> you're at the debian-cd level
[06:33] <daniels> d'oh
[06:34] <mdz> I can kick off a d-i build (for reference, so can lamont and Kamion)
[06:34] <daniels> that would be awesome, thanks
[06:34] <daniels> just as long as I can get my hands on a mini.iso with l-i -178
[06:34] <daniels> er, -17
[06:34] <lamont> daniels: it'll take a while to get to -178, I hope... :-)
[06:35] <daniels> heh
[06:35] <mdz> daniels: building now
[06:35] <daniels> mdz: thanks a lot
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> any reason mono isn't available on amd64
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> -rw-r--r--  1 bluefox users 12701 Nov 13 19:28 amd64-codegen.h
[06:40] <daniels> bluefoxicy: because it only really works with mono 1.1, which requires a complete packaging.  it's in universe, so if you want to totally repackage that and line it up with motu, that'd be great, thanks.
[06:43] <lamont> bluefoxicy: I expect it's because I have to bootstrap it
[06:44] <lamont> if someone tells me that what's in the archive should actually work, I'll turn the crank - but it'd be nice to know that before I spend time on it...
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> hmm
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  not tonight, and i really have nfc what I'm doing anyway
[06:45] <daniels> lamont: nope, needs repackaging
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> but if you want to walk me through it tomorrow some time (3:30p EST I have an interview)
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> it may provide a good learning experience.
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> once I learned to write ebuilds on gentoo I brushed 'em up and tested patches at my liesure, and also wrote a few to contribute
[06:46] <bluefoxicy> nothing says I won't do the same if I can get past dpkg's learning curve
[06:46] <daniels> no, i really do not have the time; there is some excellent documentation on www.debian.org/devl/newmaint/ that have served fine for around 1000+ new maintainers
[06:46] <daniels> er, /devel/newmaint/
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> ok
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> well, i"m the hands-on type.  More like I'm lazy; my idea of documentation is "Here we will do X and there we tell you what you're doing.  Build X, read the other real docs, and you should know exactly what your'e doing and have a process to modify for everything else"
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> but eh
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> not your job to babysit me
[06:49] <daniels> there's a difference between being hands-on and having a bash at things (which is also my style of learning) and needing to be spoonfed
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> I know.
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> like I said, lazy.
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> I'll read the first line of documentation and then drop straight to the bottom of the screen like "blahblahblah where's the part that tells me to put files somewhere and enter some command"
[06:53] <daniels> that's probably an attribute you'll want to work on
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> ya think?
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> I did actually build some debian packages a while back
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> which is worrisome:  my character's gotten bad over time.
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> I like contributing, but I'm so damn anal I annoy the shit out of everyone, and when they give me something to do I don't do it o.O
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> and I'm flooding the channel again
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> I should shut up now.
[06:57] <mdz> daniels: build is finished
[06:57] <mdz> daniels: it'll need elmo love in order to get into the archive
[06:58] <mdz> but lamont might be able to snatch it from the jaws of the buildds
[06:58] <daniels> ok, thanks
[06:58] <daniels> uncle laamoooonnnnttttt ... :)
[07:05] <fabbione> lamont: -17 has changed the ABI?
[07:08] <da_bon_bon> hi all
[07:08] <da_bon_bon> updated to hoary
[07:09] <da_bon_bon> how do i know whether udev is runing or no ?
[07:10] <fabbione> lamont: ?
[07:15] <da_bon_bon> how do i know whether udev is runing or no ?
[07:16] <lamont> fabbione: I don't believe it has?
[07:16] <fabbione> it did.. probably due to inotify update
[07:16] <lamont> daniels: shortly after it d-i finishes uploading, it goes *poof*
[07:16] <fabbione> lamont: i guess you are going to sleep soon, aren't you?
[07:16] <lamont> yeah
[07:16] <fabbione> ok
[07:16] <lamont> fabbione: GAH! - scream at zul, eh?
[07:17] <da_bon_bon> fabbione, lamont: how do i know whether udev is running ?
[07:17] <fabbione> lamont: i need to revert one patch at a time to figure that out...
[07:20] <fabbione> lamont: can i go with -18 if i find the change and it is undoable?
[07:20] <fabbione> lamont: if the security patch changes the ABI than we need to do it properly
[07:21] <lamont> fabbione: sure
[07:22] <fabbione> ok
[07:26] <lamont> fabbione: out of curiosity (and because I _should_ know in the future) what made you realize that the abi had changed?
[07:26] <fabbione> modprobe nvidia
[07:26] <fabbione> :-)
[07:27] <fabbione> to test the ABI you install the new kernel without rebooting
[07:27] <fabbione> and try to load a module
[07:27] <fabbione> if the module will load the ABI is the same
[07:27] <fabbione> or it is supposed to be the same
[07:27] <fabbione> if it doesn't the ABI is broken
[07:31] <lamont> ah, cool
[07:37] <dholbach> morning guys
[07:45] <daniels> lamont: so when does mini.iso hit cdimage.u.c?
[07:50] <dholbach> hi d3vic3
[07:50] <d3vic3> hi
[07:54] <lamont> daniels: as soon as elmo puts it in the archive
[07:54] <lamont> assuming it's built as part of the build.
[07:54] <lamont> OTOH, I do have the tarball still sittinga round on the buildd, I expect...
[07:54] <daniels> ah, so it's byhanded
[07:55] <daniels> if I could get at the mini.iso at all, that would be fantastic
[07:56] <doko> good morning all
[07:57] <dholbach> hi doko
[07:58] <_mvo_> hi doko 
[08:01] <mantiena> Kamion, hi
[08:48] <tuo2> brb
[09:08] <pitti_> Morning
[09:08] <pitti_> fabbione: bah, 2.6.11 reproducably crashes on my desktop
[09:09] <fabbione> lamont: still around?
[09:10] <fabbione> pitti_: it's not a case it is in universe
[09:10] <fabbione> + it's a bk snapshot and not a full 2.6.11
[09:10] <pitti_> fabbione: I know, I just thought you were interested in hearing reports
[09:11] <fabbione> pitti_: just open a bug in bugzilla for now
[09:11] <pitti_> fabbione: it crashes always at exactly the same time (already under Gnome), I still suspect inotify
[09:11] <fabbione> try to boot with noinotify
[09:11] <pitti_> fabbione: I'll open a bug if I have something to write into
[09:11] <fabbione> and see if it still crashes
[09:11] <pitti_> okay, I'll do that at next boot
[09:11] <fabbione> ok
[09:15] <fabbione> lamont: -18 uploaded. I had to revert the security fix and the inotify update
[09:18] <pitti_> lamont: why the security fix?
[09:19] <fabbione> pitti_: the sign patch changes the kernel ABI
[09:19] <fabbione> and it needs to be handled properly
[09:19] <pitti_> ah, ok
[09:19] <fabbione> -18 is a temporary kernel while the team will take care of getting it right in -19
[09:19] <fabbione> since it takes a while to sync everything
[09:31] <pitti_> elmo: htdig sync, please
[10:05] <ajmitch> latest daily install cd won't install base, missing memtest86+, what's the bugzilla product to report against?
[10:11] <pitti_> lamont: still here?
[10:12] <pitti_> elmo: ping
[10:18] <mantiena> Kamion, maybe you could help me to test my d-i component, which replaces base-installer ? I have troubles with runing d-i in chroot :(
[10:19] <smurfix> fabbione: A good test WRT "same kernel interface" is to check if the generated Module.symvers file is identical (or rather "sort +1 Module.symvers | cut -f 1-2")
[10:21] <smurfix> fabbione: Just installing a module or two risks missing something
[10:21] <daniels> Kamion: have another bug :) if you enter the root password wrong (expert mode), you only get prompted to re-enter it
[10:22] <daniels> i.e. only the second question gets asked, so you have to reproduce the typo you made the first time
[10:22] <Treenaks> nice one
[10:27] <_mvo_> ping haggai 
[10:42] <pitti_> elmo: mnogosearch sync, please
[10:50] <Kamion> daniels: for a mini.iso, it's way easier to just build it yourself!
[10:50] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, didn't know it came from d-i ... such is life
[10:50] <daniels> i assumed it was part of the d-c build process
[10:51] <Kamion> daniels: get the debian-installer source, cd build, set up sources.list.udeb.local with stuff like 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main/debian-installer', 'fakeroot make rebuild_netboot'
[10:51] <daniels> which we all know makes an ass out of u and some dude called med
[10:51] <daniels> Kamion: phat
[10:51] <Kamion> mantiena: could you put the source package somewhere and I'll have a look when I get a chance? now is not an excellent time but if you give me the URL then I can have a look later
[10:53] <haggai> _mvo_: pong
[10:54] <Keybuk> pitti_: [feature request]  pumount /media/*
[10:54] <mantiena> Kamion, it would be better if you tell me how get d-i menu working in chroot. I analyzed Makefile's demo target as you told and started d-i with command: sudo chroot $TREE bin/sh -c "export DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 ; /usr/bin/debconf-loadtemplate debian /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.templates; exec /usr/share/debconf/frontend /usr/bin/main-menu"
[10:54] <Keybuk> (ie. don't bitch that /media/sda1 isn't under /dev)
[10:55] <Kamion> mantiena: well, that would be what I'd try first, and then debug it into existence from there
[10:55] <mantiena> Kamion, before this I mounted proc and dev: sudo /bin/mount -t devfs dev $(TREE)/dev
[10:55] <mantiena> sudo /bin/mount -t proc proc $(TREE)/proc
[10:55] <Kamion> don't use devfs
[10:55] <Kamion> mount --bind /dev $(TREE)/dev
[10:55] <Kamion> $TREE/dev in fact, given that you aren't in make
[10:56] <mantiena> Kamion, yes, I'm starting from simple shell script
[10:57] <mantiena> Kamion, I grabed  "sudo /bin/mount -t devfs dev $(TREE)/dev" from Makefile ;)
[10:57] <mantiena> demo target
[10:58] <pitti_> Keybuk: pumount /media/* shall unmount all devices?
[10:59] <Kamion> mantiena: yeah, it's probably wrong, the switch to udev is an Ubuntu change and I won't guarantee that everything has been updated
[10:59] <Keybuk> pitti_: no, just pumount /media/sda1 shall unmount that
[10:59] <Keybuk> (at the moment it complains that /media/sda1 isn't under /dev)
[11:00] <pitti_> Keybuk: hmm, this should actually work
[11:00] <pitti_> Keybuk: can you please check what it does with pumount -d /media/sda1?
[11:00] <mantiena> Kamion, thanks, I'm trying now without devfs
[11:00] <Keybuk> ubuntu mango-sorbet# pumount -d /media/cdrom0
[11:00] <Keybuk> resolved /media/cdrom0 to device /media/cdrom0
[11:00] <Keybuk> Error: invalid device /media/cdrom0 (must be in /dev/)
[11:00] <pitti_> Keybuk: just to be sure, you are using latest Hoary version?
[11:01] <Keybuk> pitti_: yeah, give or take a day or two
[11:02] <pitti_> Keybuk: hmm, this works for me for USB devices
[11:02] <Kamion> mantiena: you haven't told me what went wrong with your approach though
[11:02] <pitti_> $ pumount -d /media/Pitti\ Drive/
[11:02] <pitti_> resolved mount point /media/Pitti Drive/ to device /dev/sda1
[11:02] <pitti_> resolved /dev/sda1 to device /dev/sda1
[11:02] <pitti_> policy check passed
[11:02] <pitti_> Executing command: /bin/umount /dev/sda1
[11:02] <pitti_> Keybuk: I'll take a look at it
[11:03] <Keybuk> weird
[11:03] <Keybuk> it works with the usb device
[11:03] <Keybuk> maybe I'm being dumb
[11:03] <pitti_> Keybuk: no, I think it may be a bug if the device is in fstab
[11:03] <pitti_> Keybuk: I get the same for cd-rom
[11:04] <Keybuk> ah, yes, cdrom is in fstab
[11:09] <mantiena> Kamion, without devfs is same problem than before - I get only blue screen and process "/usr/share/debconf/frontend /usr/bin/main-menu" uses ~90% of my CPU :(
[11:11] <Kamion> I'll have to investigate that later then
[11:11] <mantiena> Kamion, after few minutes this process eats almost all my memory: 946m  VIRT and 625m RES :(
[11:12] <Kamion> you know how to use strace and gdb, right? :)
[11:12] <Kamion> 'cos that's where I'd start ...
[11:13] <mantiena> Kamion, ok, I try to do this, but notice, this is not because of my component, I just trying to start standard d-i from ubuntu
[11:13] <Kamion> yes I'm aware of that
[11:13] <mantiena> Kamion, I build d-i with make demo_hd-media
[11:13] <Kamion> I've never tried to run the demo target in Ubuntu though :)
[11:14] <mantiena> Kamion, how you are building and debuging d-i ?
[11:14] <Kamion> demo, in itself, is not all that useful for installer development
[11:14] <Kamion> I build either netboot images or CD-ROM images and boot into those
[11:15] <mantiena> Kamion, you are rebooting every time when you need test ?
[11:15] <low> howdy !
[11:15] <low> Kamion: around ?
[11:15] <Kamion> mantiena: depends on what I'm doing
[11:16] <Kamion> mantiena: but, for the installer itself (as distinct from your live CD installer), there are many things that you cannot usefully do while just chrooted
[11:16] <Kamion> low: yes
[11:17] <low> Kamion: i've tried daily/current amd64 iso from this morning. two problems appeared: 1st, network card isn't recongnized anymore (forcedeth), 2nd, when coming to raid config, it says the kernel doesn't support MD devices
[11:17] <Kamion> I was only working on i386; I'll try amd64 later
[11:17] <Kamion> the forcedeth thing surprises me but is really a job for the kernel guys to analyse
[11:18] <low> that was ok when running array4 test iso
[11:19] <low> Kamion: i suppose your fixes about md configuration are applied to x86/x86_64/ppc/etc ?
[11:19] <Kamion> they were not architecture-specific in the least, as far as I know
[11:19] <Kamion> anyway, I have to go and apply for a notice of marriage
[11:20] <low> Kamion: ok, who do i have to talk with about kernel problems ?
[11:21] <daniels> Kamion: poor soul (i mean, good luck!)
[11:26] <Kamion> low: currently, lamont's probably the best candidate
[11:26] <low> ok thx Kamion !
[11:28] <Kamion> low: for the MD problem, have a look to see (a) does /proc/mdstat exist? (b) are modules md, raid0, raid1, raid5 available/loaded? (they should have been loaded automatically)
[11:29] <low> checking...
[11:30] <low> hmmm nothing, trying to load modules by hand...
[11:31] <low> modprobe all these, keeps complaining: "invalid module format"
[11:31] <low> checking iso md5
[11:31] <ajmitch> low: just burnt it, I get the same thing
[11:31] <Kamion> invalid module format? odd
[11:31] <ajmitch> it won't load networking modules nor lvm
[11:32] <Kamion> anything interesting on tty4?
[11:33] <low> Kamion: anyway md5 isn't correct
[11:33] <ajmitch> nothing interesting as such, just modprobe complains
[11:33] <low> Kamion: checking (box is in another room, brb)
[11:33] <Kamion> low: that might explain some of it; I'm surprised that it booted that far though
[11:34] <ajmitch> checking md5sums here
[11:34] <low> Kamion: nothing special in tty4
[11:34] <ajmitch> md5 checks out ok
[11:34] <low> 0983640d59a6f44653a247c80120d807 then ?
[11:34] <Kamion> apparently linux-source-2.6.10 2.6.10-17 broke the module ABI
[11:34] <Kamion> that might be part of it
[11:35] <Kamion> -18 fixes it
[11:35] <low> hmmm 2.6.10-3 here !?
[11:35] <ajmitch> Kamion: alright, yesterday's image seems to have missed memtest86+ installation, which broke it
[11:35] <daniels> lamont: if you want to just abi-bump l-r-m when you do -19, i'd love you forever
[11:35] <low> gah i'm in the bad dir
[11:35] <Kamion> low: that's the module ABI version, not the kernel package version.
[11:35] <daniels> lamont: (and also do the CONFIG_DRM thing we discussed in l-s)
[11:36] <Kamion> ajmitch: "missed"?
[11:36] <daniels> things that are shit include: discover1
[11:36] <low> Kamion: ok, md5 is good here
[11:36] <ajmitch> Kamion: not sure, but apt complained about ubuntu-base's missing dependency
[11:37] <Kamion> ajmitch: what arch?
[11:37] <ajmitch> i386
[11:37] <Kamion> will investigate later
[11:37] <Kamion> must go
[11:37] <ajmitch> ok
[11:37] <low> see ya Kamion 
[11:38] <daniels> Kamion: miastill around, perchance?
[11:38] <daniels> Kamion: if so, how does one pick up on a switch passed on the command line?  e.g. debian-installer/multiseat=true
[11:39] <Mithrandir> it's in /proc/cmdline
[11:39] <Kamion> daniels: debconf question, db_get
[11:39] <Kamion> don't use debian-installer/* please though
[11:39] <Kamion> multiseat-udeb/somethingorother
[11:39] <ajmitch> memtest86+ looks to be on the cd, retrying install..
[11:40] <dholbach> re
[11:40] <Kamion> env2debconf maps */*=* into debconf questions
[11:41] <daniels> Kamion: ah cool, thakns dude
[11:54] <thom> oh dear god kill me now
[11:54] <thom> #6577
[11:57] <ogra> thom: poor guy....
[11:57] <ogra> thom: solve it by a disk monitor that pops up a warning ;)
[11:57] <smurfix> thom: Debian #275726
[11:57] <smurfix> thom: tagged fixed-upstream
[11:58] <seb128> thom: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-mozilla-maintainers/2005-January/000006.html
[12:01] <seb128> thom: wait before doing an upload, I've perhaps an another bug for you (#5992)
[12:02] <thom> gee, thanks
[12:03] <seb128> thom: and about the jumping cursor ? let me know if you need any help on this, I would like to get it fixed to enjoy replying in bugzilla again :p
[12:03] <daniels> thom: psst, if you want to get him back, he can have anything on my bug list
[12:04] <thom> seb128: i might turn pango off to see if that fixes the problem
[12:04] <seb128> thom: I'm going to run a firefox build to try something for #5992, do you want me to turn it in the same build ?
[12:05] <seb128> daniels: any news on the xkb issues ?
[12:05] <thom> seb128: please do
[12:05] <seb128> k
[12:08] <ajmitch> Kamion: ok, forget that semi-bug about ubuntu-base dependencies - tried again with same settings, same cd, and it's all installed, somehow
[12:11] <daniels> what's the best way to count numbers of lines in shell?
[12:11] <daniels> assuming that busybox's wc seems to be crap enough to print all the spaces before the number
[12:12] <daniels> ${#FOO} only counts numbers of characters
[12:12] <daniels> seb128: none ta all, sorry, been way too busy with other stuff
[12:12] <jdub> POO=0 while read foo; do POO=$(($POO+1)); done < file
[12:12] <jdub> ?
[12:13] <seb128> daniels: k, np
[12:13] <jdub> hey, if your wc is screwed, anything's game :)
[12:14] <daniels> jdub: it's not my wc, it's busybox's
[12:17] <AndyFitz> okay, which guy broke my gnome    ;-)
[12:22] <daniels> seb128
[12:25] <mantiena> Kamion, hehe, I got working d-i in chroot - simply unpackged and mounted initrd.gz from CD ;)
[12:26] <seb128> AndyFitz: we don't even know what you are talking about
[12:28] <AndyFitz> since upgrading to the new ubuntu-base and restarting i havent been able to log into gnome. i have no idea how that works since i thought ubuntu-base was an empty package with lots of depends
[12:29] <AndyFitz> this really belongs in #ubuntu
[12:34] <Md> is a version of ongoing-merge for hoary available?
[12:35] <daniels> Md: as in, the actual merge tool?
[12:35] <Md> daniels: no, the .diff files from the debian version to the ubuntu/hoary version
[12:36] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ has interdiffs, i believe
[12:36] <Md> or is 0.0.20040329-15ubuntu3 really the latest hotplug version in ubuntu?
[12:36] <Md> daniels: I know, but they look old. the hotplug diff there has been generated in november
[12:37] <Keybuk> 16ubuntu11 is current
[12:37] <Keybuk> the ongoing merge tool only takes diffs at merge-point
[12:37] <Keybuk> (so 16ubuntu1 through 16ubuntu11 aren't represented there)
[12:38] <Md> so I need to generate it manually?
[12:38] <Keybuk> currently, yes
[12:47] <seb128> thom: #5992 reassigned, crappy patch in fact
[12:49] <thom> seb128: ok, thanks
[12:49] <thom> did killing pango fix your problems, or didn't you try?
[12:50] <seb128> nop
[12:50] <daniels> oh my god, posix shell is broken to shit
[12:50] <daniels> FOO="   I run the risk of letting this entry run rather melancholic, so I'll leave you with a picture of my titties.
[12:50] <daniels>      er
[12:50] <jdub> ha ha ha ha
[12:50] <daniels> imagine that I just pasted some random crap from LiveJournal instead of hitting the space bar :)
[12:50] <seb128> thom: I still get the jumping cursor without the pango option to the configure
[12:50] <jdub> yay for daniels livejournal girlfriend!
[12:50] <thom> seb128: no to which
[12:50] <daniels> so let's try that one again
[12:50] <daniels> jdub: not my girlfriend, dude
[12:50] <jdub> the boobies are attached to a he?
[12:50] <daniels> FOO="        x"; if [ "${FOO## }" = "x" ] 
[12:51] <daniels> this will return false
[12:51] <daniels> FOO="        x"; if [ ${FOO## } = "x" ] 
[12:51] <daniels> this will return true
[12:51] <smurfix> daniels: Ouch
[12:51] <daniels> in the first case, the ## isn't actually doing anything, it's still       x
[12:51] <mjg59> Yay for shell
[12:51] <smurfix> daniels: In the second case, the ## still isn't doing anything I suspect
[12:52] <daniels> smurfix: well, "${FOO## }" == $FOO
[12:53] <seb128> thom: hum, removing the configure option is enough ? or should I turn it to the opposite ? it's still linked with pango
[12:53] <daniels> smurfix: the substitution happens without the "" though; don't know what shell it is (posh?), it's whatever one is in the installer
[12:53] <thom> seb128: i think it defaults true, so you'll need to reverse it
[12:53] <smurfix> daniels: aren't the spaces swallowed by the standard whitespace skippage?
[12:53] <seb128> thom: right, I've screwed so :p
[12:54] <thom> seb128: d'oh
[12:54] <thom> you do use ccache, right?
[12:54] <daniels> smurfix: all I know is that my postinst was broken for that very reason ("      4" != "4") until I fixed it
[12:54] <daniels> smurfix: and the trace was showing it comparing "      4" vs "4"
[12:55] <daniels> in "${FOO## }" = "4", where $FOO="      4"
[12:55] <smurfix> daniels: exactly. Without the quotes, shell word expansion ditches the whitespace.
[12:55] <smurfix> daniels: bash doesn't understand ##<whitespace> either
[12:55] <daniels> smurfix: oh, hm. 
[12:56] <daniels> smurfix: weird
[12:56] <seb128> thom: nop
[12:59] <smurfix> daniels: anyway, that's not a bug. The thing after ## is suppose to be a (pathname-style) pattern.
[12:59] <elmo> smurfix: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: python-dev (>= 2.4dfsg-1)
[12:59] <elmo> smurfix: python-dev | 2.4-0ubuntu6 |         hoary | all
[01:00] <smurfix> elmo: I noticed -- will upload -2 later today
[01:00] <daniels> smurfix: ok, thanks for the heads-up
[01:00] <smurfix> elmo: after I replaced the hard disk in my laptop :-/
[01:00] <smurfix> daniels: If you use exactly as many spaces as there are in $FOO, it works.
[01:01] <daniels> smurfix: bleh.  isn't ## supposed to be a greedy match, though?
[01:01] <elmo> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-02-15 11:58:43 ./usr/share/dotnet/mono/gac/evolution-sharp/1.0.0.0__457eed85bd9370df/
[01:01] <elmo> ... nice.
[01:01] <daniels> smurfix: i.e. if you have xxxxxy, shouldn't ${FOO#x} give you xxxxy, and ${FOO##x} give you y?
[01:01] <smurfix> daniels: it's shortest/longest matching pattern, not matching repetition of that pattern.
[01:01] <daniels> smurfix: blegh
[01:02] <smurfix> daniels: Unfortunateky it's also shell filename pattern, not regexp, so ... :-(
[01:04] <thom> seb128: oops
[01:36] <Md> who should be credited for the beautiful hotplug.init shell hack? mdz?
[01:39] <mantiena> Md, not I ;)
[01:41] <dholbach> jdub: still there?
[01:42] <jdub> yo
[01:42] <jdub> briefly
[01:42] <jdub> must sleep
[01:43] <jdub> or at least, i must attempt to portray sleep
[01:43] <dholbach> jdub: you read mary gardiner's mail concerning offlineimap breakage?
[01:44] <jdub> nup, where abouts?
[01:44] <dholbach> jdub: ubuntu-users - the MOTU team (including me) wants to get 2347346 of python universe packages sorted out and i wanted to reply to get some enthusiasts about it together on #ubuntu-love day
[01:44] <jdub> ah, rocking
[01:44] <dholbach> jdub: since i dont know about your exact plans, i wanted to ask you before replying
[01:44] <jdub> good call
[01:44] <jdub> please do
[01:45] <jdub> i'm going to put up a page about it and activities tomorrow
[01:45] <dholbach> cool
[01:45] <jdub> please Cc me on that one :)
[01:45] <dholbach> jdub: and thanks for the congratulations ;-)
[01:45] <jdub> dholbach: :-)
[01:45] <bob2> dholbach: it's fixed in sid
[01:45] <bob2> I meant to bug you about that
[01:45] <pitti> night jdub 
[01:45] <dholbach> bob2: oh cool
[01:46] <dholbach> jdub: sleep tight
[01:46] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync offlineimap from sync then?
[01:46] <bob2> we're past upstream freeze
[01:46] <bob2> get permission from jeff and matt
[01:46] <dholbach> bob2: it's in universe
[01:47] <jk> hrmpzgrmbl #^&$%&# php &#*$^*&%^
[01:50] <bob2> it didn't move to supported, again?
[01:51] <dholbach> apt-cache show offlineimap   told me
[01:52] <bob2> I know how to find it out
[01:53] <dholbach> bob2: sorry... i just wanted to state, i didn't know of any plans about re-supporting it and just consulted apt-cache
[02:04] <mjg59> jbailey: Any progress with setting RESUME by default?
[02:05] <jbailey> mjg59: None.  On my todo list today to talk to you about.  I'm not sure of the logic to figure it out, or where it should go.  Should I just drop the only swap partition into the config file when I'm installing for the first time?
[02:05] <jbailey> initrd-tools isn't essential, so I could debconf it in the event that I've got multiple choice or just pick the biggest one.
[02:06] <mjg59> If there's only one swap partition, use it. If there are two, use the biggest.
[02:06] <mjg59> If they're equal, just use the first
[02:13] <zul> hey
[02:15] <zul> fabbione: ping
[02:33] <sivang> Hi everybody!
[02:33] <Treenaks> hey sivang 
[02:34] <dholbach> hi sivan!
[02:35] <sivang> hey Treenaks , dholbach 
[02:39] <lamont> zul: morning - about 2 minutes before I need to run out the door
[02:39] <lamont> fwiw, I think we want to let -18 stand today, and plan on uploading -19 after array 4 is out the door tomorrow.
[02:39] <lamont> (since -17 broke all the isos...)
[02:39] <zul> lamont, k
[02:39] <low> lamont: great. i'll test it tomorrow
[02:40] <lamont> wife comes home this afternoon, gotta make the house ready for her so that I can sleep in my bed tonight... :)
[02:40] <zul> awww isnt that sweet :)
[02:40] <lamont> low: I expect that Kamion will burn a new CD collection with -18 on them...
[02:41] <tritium> nvidia is broken with -18
[02:41] <lamont> tritium: broken how?
[02:41] <Kamion> lamont: that's the plan, yeah
[02:41] <lamont> all?? kernel modules are broken with -17....
[02:41] <tritium> lamont, couldn't load the module.  Had to boot into 2.6.10-2.  Similar to what happend around 2.6.10-7 and -8 or so
[02:42] <lamont> tritium: right. you have -17, not -18
[02:42] <tritium> lamont, no, I got -18 this morning
[02:42] <zul> wtf?
[02:42] <Kamion> tritium: did you reboot into -18?
[02:42] <lamont> that would be annoying
[02:42] <dholbach> bbl
[02:42] <Kamion> tritium: or are you running a -17 kernel and trying to load -18 modules?
[02:42] <Kamion> lamont: just waiting for ia64 to finish building -18 ...
[02:42] <lamont> Kamion: lets hope that is the issue...
[02:43] <lamont> Kamion: linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-18_20050215-0838 07:33:26 (4 entries, sigma 00:02:29)
[02:43] <lamont> start without it
[02:43] <tritium> Kamion, let me reboot to double-check
[02:43] <lamont> Kamion: unless you really have 2 hours to kill.
[02:43] <tritium> before I say any more
[02:43] <Kamion> lamont: ok
[02:44] <lamont> Kamion: and then if you want to build a new set of ia64-only CD's somewhere around 1630 your time, it might be ready for you
[02:45] <Kamion> I'll just hold my debian-installer upload until ia64 makes it, I think
[02:45] <daniels> Kamion: thanks a lot for your help :)
[02:46] <ogra> hmm, pmount locks my terminal :(
[02:47] <tritium> Kamion, I'm a moron this morning
[02:48] <sivang> daniels: do you know if we have il archives already? the hoary build I installed with has "il.archive.u.c" 
[02:49] <sivang> hey tritium 
[02:49] <tritium> sivang, hello
[02:49] <sivang> tritium: how are you ?
[02:49] <daniels> sivang: i don't know, sorry, but iirc there's a *.a.u.c wildcard pointing to the master server
[02:49] <tritium> sivang, fine, thanks.  How are you?
[02:50] <sivang> daniels: ah cool, thanks :)
[02:50] <sivang> tritium: fine, copying last settings from my old hd to a new sata :)
[02:51] <Kamion> daniels: np
[02:51] <tritium> sivang, new hardware - cool!
[02:52] <sivang> tritium: yeah, it's always a refreshing feeling.
[02:52] <mantiena> Kamion, it seems I found one error in cdrom-retriever :)
[02:53] <Kamion> mantiena: oh?
[02:54] <mantiena> Kamion, line 47 of cdrom-retriever is "        if db_get mirror/suite; then"
[02:54] <mantiena> it should also check if return value isn't empty
[02:55] <mantiena> maybe check for empty $RET should be in line 48  ?
[02:55] <Kamion> mm, perhaps; although an environment that doesn't set mirror/suite before calling cdrom-retriever is itself buggy
[02:56] <mantiena> Kamion, in any case, I think it's not hard to make chech for empy ;)
[02:56] <eruin> debian sid bugs are automatically imported to ubuntu, right?
[02:56] <Kamion> (note that cdrom-detect sets mirror/suite
[02:56] <Kamion> )
[02:56] <Kamion> eruin: only release-critical ones
[02:56] <Treenaks> and only on main
[02:57] <mantiena> Kamion, not always, when I copied CD to hard disk it doesn't set ;) I think if $RET is empty then we should do suite=stable :)
[02:57] <eruin> Kamion: so should I bugzilla this ( http://lists.debian.org/debian-apache/2005/02/msg00090.html ) for ubuntu or track the debian bug?
[02:57] <Kamion> mantiena: *you* should set mirror/suite in that case
[02:57] <Kamion> mantiena: no, I want to get rid of the 'stable' symlink in dists
[02:57] <thom> eruin: no, it'll be fixed in about 10 minutes
[02:57] <eruin> thom: heheh, thanks
[02:57] <Kamion> mantiena: mirror/suite should always be set; it's a bug not to :)
[02:58] <Kamion> mantiena: (I'm fixing cdrom-retriever upstream now anyway, though, thanks)
[02:59] <mantiena> Kamion, it seems you always take the best decision ;)
[02:59] <Kamion> maybe I should just zap the stable symlink now to "encourage" fixing code ... nah, maybe not
[03:00] <mantiena> Kamion, btw, what you call "upstream" ? ubuntu or debian-installer SVN ?
[03:00] <Kamion> Ubuntu is clearly not upstream
[03:00] <Kamion> debian-installer svn
[03:00] <Kamion> code flows downstream from original authors to distributors
[03:00] <mantiena> Kamion, ok, nice to hear ;)
[03:01] <Kamion> eruin: in general if you want a bug in Ubuntu then either (a) ask mdz, who operates debzilla, or (b) file a bug and set the debNNNNNN alias on it where NNNNNN is the Debian bug number, wait, and shortly afterwards the bug history will be imported for you
[03:01] <mantiena> Kamion, I can run d-i in chroot only when I choose English language in language-choose, if I choose Lithuanian then frontend eats all me memory :)
[03:02] <Kamion> interesting
[03:03] <mantiena> yea, but if I run d-i in real environment, not in chroot then Lithuanian language works fine ;)
[03:03] <infinity> eruin : thom is rolling new apache2 packages to fix that based on Debian's -4 packages which fixed it.
[03:03] <infinity> eruin : Oh, and I missed where thom already told you that.  Nevermind.
[03:12] <eruin> infinity:)
[03:14] <svenl> hi.
[03:15] <sivang> hey svenl 
[03:15] <svenl> hi sivang 
[03:15] <sivang> svenl: it's been some time since we last talked ;-)
[03:16] <svenl> sivang: remember me who you are ?
[03:17] <sivang> svenl: just one user of your nvidia howto on debian, remember the issue with the nvidia installer and debian ones not agreeing on stuff ? 
[03:18] <svenl> sivang: ah ...
[03:18] <svenl> zul, lamont: ping ...
[03:19] <daniels> Kamion: is having my udeb install stuff into prebaseconfig.d a Bad Thing?
[03:20] <Kamion> daniels: not necessarily, just take account of what else is there and what order you need to be at
[03:20] <daniels> Kamion: rad, thanks
[03:20] <svenl> Kamion: hi.
[03:20] <Kamion> hello
[03:21] <Kamion> daniels: (in particular, you can't call apt-install after 10; it's usually better to call apt-install much much earlier, if you need to)
[03:21] <svenl> Kamion: i tried a daily-hoary-netboot install, and there seems to be some kernel/module troubles,
[03:21] <Kamion> svenl: yeah, known, being fixed now ...
[03:21] <daniels> Kamion: ah, hmm ... not much I can do there since the udeb's at 30 by design
[03:21] <Kamion> the kernel ABI broke
[03:21] <svenl> modprobe telling me invalid module format and such,
[03:22] <svenl> Kamion: guessed so.
[03:22] <Kamion> daniels: that's xb-installer-menu-item, not prebaseconfig order
[03:22] <Kamion> svenl: there's already been a kernel upload to fix it, it just has to propagate everywhere
[03:22] <svenl> Kamion: daily isos will work though ?
[03:22] <svenl> Ah.
[03:22] <Kamion> svenl: yesterday's daily ISO should work, today's is broken
[03:22] <daniels> Kamion: oh, right -- I assumed you meant 'earlier than prebaseconfig' for 'much much earlier', but come to think of it, that doesn't actually make any sense
[03:22] <Kamion> I'm building fixed ISOs now
[03:22] <svenl> Kamion: oh well.
[03:23] <svenl> Kamion: what about netboot ?
[03:23] <Kamion> daniels: if you need to install extra packages into /target, you can call apt-install anywhere from startup to prebaseconfig.d/10
[03:23] <sivang> Kamion: the one before also installed without any fuss, excluding the vauge question about the place where to put the boot loader ;-)
[03:23] <Kamion> svenl: installer-*/ is fine, dunno status of daily-installer-*
[03:23] <Kamion> sivang: I'd prefer bug reports about things you think are vague, instead of vague reports on IRC :-)
[03:24] <low> Kamion: which arch are you fixing ?
[03:24] <svenl> Kamion: remember me the path to installer-*
[03:24] <Kamion> low: all except ia64 (kernel package not built yet on ia64)
[03:24] <Kamion> svenl: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-powerpc/ etc.
[03:25] <low> Kamion: great :) available tomorrow i suppose ?
[03:25] <Kamion> svenl: although, since there was a period when the kernels in the archive were broken, you might well just try whatever image you used before once again
[03:25] <Kamion> low: building *now*, they don't take a day :)
[03:26] <sivang> Kamion: ofcourse :-) just trying to finish setting up my system (something which is being delayed since last night) and then I will do some buracracy ;-))
[03:26] <low> Kamion: sweet :) please tell me when it's ok so i can dl and try !
[03:26] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-powerpc//powerpc/netboot should be ok ?
[03:26] <Kamion> ETA half an hour or so
[03:26] <Kamion> svenl: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/
[03:29] <svenl> Kamion: i mean, they will be compatible with the module .udebs in the archive ?
[03:30] <daniels> Kamion: mmm, I need to throw in a couple of files to /target also
[03:30] <Kamion> svenl: should be
[03:30] <daniels> Kamion: so pbc might be easier
[03:30] <Kamion> daniels: that's fine before prebaseconfig.d/95umount
[03:30] <daniels> Kamion: right
[03:31] <Kamion> daniels: many udebs have both a main portion that runs early on, and a prebaseconfig script
[03:31] <Kamion> daniels: there's nothing at all to prevent you doing both
[03:31] <mantiena> Kamion, debian-installer in sarge sets utf8 locales for all by default like ubutu hoary or not ?
[03:37] <zul> ,48,2)
[03:37] <zul> dang
[03:37] <smurfix> Kamion: I need to generate the keymapping file from tmp/*/tree/usr/share/console/lists/console-keymaps-*. Where's the best place to put a rule for that?
[03:38] <smurfix> Kamion: s:tmp/*:tmp/whatever, of course
[03:40] <daniels> Kamion: yah, 'swhat I'm doing :)
[03:40] <daniels> Kamion: shotgun pbc.d/09
[03:41] <dholbach> re
[03:41] <Kamion> mantiena: no, d-i in sarge does not do that, it's an Ubuntu change to localechooser
[03:41] <svenl> zul: hi.
[03:41] <Kamion> smurfix: build-depend on console-data and pick it out of that?
[03:41] <svenl> zul: i hear that you are on the ubuntu kernel team, and that you need a powerpc maintainer or something ? 
[03:43] <mantiena> Kamion, are there any plans to make UTF8 locales in sarge as default ?
[03:44] <svenl> mantiena: definitively not.
[03:44] <zul> svenl, we already have t-bone working on powerpc but he might like some help
[03:44] <mantiena> svenl, :(
[03:45] <svenl> zul: ah, ok.
[03:45] <Kamion> mantiena: sarge is FROZEN
[03:45] <svenl> zul: well, i will ask him. as said i do the powerpc kernels for debian, so ...
[03:45] <Treenaks> Kamion: and has been for about a year now, afaik
[03:46] <Kamion> Treenaks: base has been frozen for about six months.
[03:46] <Treenaks> Kamion: one of the reasons I switched to ubuntu
[03:46] <Kamion> Treenaks: but the installer was not frozen at that point; since rc2, though, there have been few substantive changes
[03:46] <smurfix> Kamion: I need to process exactly those keymaps available at install time into one file. for i386 that would be the i386 and mac subdirectories, each of whom has their own udeb
[03:47] <Kamion> smurfix: can't you generate it at run-time then? that would be much safer
[03:48] <smurfix> Kamion: generation is rather time-consuming, needs Python unless I spend two weeks rewriting the thing in C
[03:48] <Kamion> ugh
[03:48] <thom> yes! someone found me the bug in upstream for the RtL crasher in mozilla
[03:48] <Kamion> smurfix: you need to copy kbd-chooser's lists of which udebs are used, then
[03:48] <sivang> thom: wooo, what's the bug who found it?
[03:49] <Kamion> smurfix: BTW you know cdebconf failed to build?
[03:49] <smurfix> Kamion: umm, no. Where's the log? I'll look at it
[03:49] <mantiena> Kamion, thanks for onfo
[03:49] <thom> except it doesn't ahve a patch or any useful data
[03:49] <thom> bugger
[03:49] <fabbione> zul: pong
[03:49] <svenl> hi fabbione 
[03:49] <fabbione> hi svenl
[03:49] <Kamion> oh god, you did awful things involving autoconf!
[03:49] <fabbione> damn you found me!
[03:49] <Kamion> don't do that!
[03:49] <svenl> fabbione: you still around ? Should you not be busy with otherstuff right now ? 
[03:50] <Kamion> smurfix: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/c/cdebconf/0.74ubuntu5/cdebconf_0.74ubuntu5_20050214-2059-i386-failed
[03:50] <fabbione> now i can't talk bad about you anymore :P
[03:50] <zul> fabbione, unpong
[03:50] <fabbione> zul: ok
[03:50] <Kamion> smurfix: please please generate configure statically at build-time rather than depending on random versions of autoconf on the buildds
[03:50] <fabbione> svenl: i will be around until thursday -> then honeymoon
[03:50] <tseng> d3vic3: if you didnt catch it your last mono update ftbfs
[03:50] <tseng> d3vic3: muine rather.
[03:51] <Kamion> smurfix: I'll fix it up
[03:51] <svenl> fabbione: hehe.
[03:51] <smurfix> Kamion: OK. Sorry about that.
[03:52] <d3vic3> tseng, what ? 
[03:52] <svenl> fabbione: i was wondering if the powerpc ubuntu kernel could also add the mkvmlinuz magic to the packages ? 
[03:52] <d3vic3> what is ftbfs ?
[03:52] <Kamion> smurfix: oh, we should work out a cdebconf custom widget API based on your detect_keys thing; ultimately I'd like it to be the first example of a custom widgets
[03:52] <tseng> d3vic3: fails to build from source
[03:52] <svenl> fabbione: i can provide a patch for it if needed.
[03:52] <Kamion> widget
[03:52] <tseng> d3vic3: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/m/muine/0.6.3-5ubuntu1/muine_0.6.3-5ubuntu1_20050214-1507-i386-failed
[03:52] <daniels> hmmm
[03:52] <daniels> lamont: when are you planning the next kernel upload?
[03:52] <Kamion> smurfix: (and sorry, I should be calmer :-))
[03:52] <daniels> lamont: i have one more tweak for you :)
[03:52] <fabbione> svenl: i am out of the kernel team until i am back from the honeymoon
[03:53] <fabbione> svenl: but we are in feature freeze. so no new things go in now
[03:53] <fabbione> svenl: new devel will start after hoary
[03:53] <smurfix> Kamion: That makes sense. cdebconf should also report its availability when asked. Of course, if you have a not-implemented error code that actually gets returned to the caller, that tends to help too ;-)
[03:53] <Kamion> smurfix: indeed :)
[03:53] <fabbione> svenl: but you are welcome to discuss the patch in the meanwhile so it can get scheduled
[03:53] <svenl> fabbione: oh well.
[03:54] <svenl> fabbione: it is no kernel patch, just a couple of .o that gets copied to /lib/kernel/something.
[03:54] <svenl> fabbione: absolutely no effect on the vmlinux so this argument doesn't stand :)
[03:55] <fabbione> svenl: better.. just talk with the kernel team and let them decide :-) they need to strech their wings on the package :P
[03:55] <zul> fabbione: yeah and not break it :)
[03:55] <d3vic3> tseng, thanks,will look at it 
[03:56] <tseng> d3vic3: thanks.
[03:56] <fabbione> zul: before you or the team will upload -19 you need to bump the ABI
[03:56] <Hwolf> daniels: is there any place on the web where one can get an idea where the linux desktop is going? xorg and freedesktop don't really provide a vision / roadmap
[03:56] <fabbione> and coordinate all the bits required for it
[03:56] <fabbione> zul: so please take 2/3 days before doing so
[03:56] <svenl> fabbione: like said, i volunteer to be part of the kernel team for ppc.
[03:56] <Kamion> definitely wait 'til after array cd 5 for that
[03:56] <zul> fabbione: how?
[03:57] <fabbione> svenl: welcome! add your name to the wiki and start the job :)
[03:57] <fabbione> zul: how what?
[03:57] <zul> fabbione: check the abi
[03:57] <fabbione> svenl: it's easy :P
[03:57] <fabbione> zul: smurfix has a very technical method
[03:57] <fabbione> i use to check via modprobe/rmmod
[03:57] <Kamion> smurfix: cdebconf changes look good otherwise though, hope to try them out soon (although I hope after array cd 5, too :))
[03:57] <fabbione> zul: check the irclogs from this morning (my time)
[03:58] <zul> k
[03:58] <svenl> I guess i have to join and login first though.
[03:58] <Kamion> smurfix: fix uploaded; will merge a couple of things upstream now
[03:58] <smurfix> Kamion: Anyway, the idea seems to be to have console-tools prebuild the necessary keymap files. I guess I can do that; combo things like mac+i386 can be handled as a special case, there shouldn't be too many of those.
[03:59] <Kamion> smurfix: yeah, that would work too, have the prebuilt bits shipped in the udeb?
[03:59] <Kamion> udebs
[04:02] <smurfix> Kamion: hmm, which udeb should the combined i386+usb keymap be in?
[04:02] <Kamion> smurfix: oh, no way to have one per console-keymaps-* udeb?
[04:03] <smurfix> Kamion: If I do that, I have to ask the architecture question beforehand
[04:04] <Kamion> smurfix: ok, how about making the console-data source package spit out a new udeb with the appropriate prebuilt files for each architecture, looking at the keymaps as per kbd-chooser/Makefile?
[04:05] <smurfix> Kamion: yeah, that would probably work best
[04:05] <Kamion> then your keyboard selector udeb can depend on that new udeb
[04:05] <Kamion> and we suck them both into the initrd at the same time
[04:05] <svenl> mmm, fabbione any coordination mailing list for the kernel team
[04:05] <svenl> ?
[04:06] <fabbione> svenl: ubuntu-devel and add [kernel]  in the subject
[04:07] <fabbione> if there will be enough traffic we will create our own ml
[04:07] <smurfix> Kamion: I need to touch console-data anyway, some keymaps lack keys like "e"
[04:07] <smurfix> Kamion: ... because it's there anyway
[04:07] <smurfix> Kamion: ... unless you've been using Dvorak
[04:07] <tseng> Treenaks: is xine-lib known broken elsewhere?
[04:08] <Treenaks> tseng: I don't know...
[04:08] <tseng> I see.
[04:08] <Treenaks> tseng: I just spotted it because I wanted to install muine, and looked at the build log
[04:08] <thom> seb128: i think your bug is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=207186
[04:08] <thom> have fun ;-)
[04:08] <tseng> we could opt to sync the debian package, which is using gstreamer
[04:08] <tseng> or rush my 0.8.2 packages.
[04:09] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[04:09] <Kamion> smurfix: heh, ok
[04:10] <Kamion> low: new daily CD up
[04:11] <low> Kamion: already dling it, ETA 8 minutes :)
[04:11] <Treenaks> tseng: why rush them? are they broken?
[04:12] <daniels> Hwolf: not really, sorry
[04:12] <tseng> Treenaks: they arent in debian experimental even
[04:12] <tseng> Treenaks: they work fine, however
[04:12] <Treenaks> tseng: could I try them in ~ 2 hours (when I'm  home)
[04:12] <tseng> yes
[04:12] <Treenaks> tseng: ok
[04:12] <Treenaks> tseng: how/where? :)
[04:13] <tseng> http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/muine/
[04:14] <seb128> thom: that's bidi text ?
[04:14] <Hwolf> daniels: is there anything on the horizon at all? Lots of fud about next-gen os's, but there is more about osx / lonhorn, nothing about tux
[04:15] <thom> seb128: i'm pretty sure that having pango turned on means that it gets used that way all the time
[04:16] <seb128> thom: do we have any improvement by turning pango on ?
[04:16] <thom> turning pango off, you mean?
[04:16] <thom> oh, ISWYM
[04:16] <thom> yes, bidi text everywhere else seems to work better
[04:17] <daniels> Hwolf: i dunno, i'm not a visionary, i just package stuff and work on x (mainly the build system, even, not anything hugely exciting)
[04:17] <daniels> ask havoc or nat or someone ;)
[04:18] <Treenaks> tseng: it needs new versions of all that -cil stuff?
[04:18] <tseng> Treenaks: yes
[04:18] <Treenaks> tseng: scary :)
[04:18] <tseng> not really, it uses gtk 2.4 widgets
[04:19] <Hwolf> daniels: visionary != goodlooking-desktop-lover :-P
[04:20] <daniels> Hwolf: sure, but I don't know what it's going to be; like, I love Tomboy, right, but I wouldn't have been able to predict its existence :P my only prediction for the desktop is that Composite will get usable because we'll throw XAA away, and maybe people will actually use it, but it's a little offtopic for #u-d
[04:20] <svenl> Mmm, ubuntu kernel has some troubles with the marvell gigabit ethernet controller driver.
[04:20] <Hwolf> daniels: I'll take it to google. :)
[04:21] <Treenaks> daniels: throw away XAA?
[04:22] <Kamion> svenl: strange; that's what I have here and it works fine (though only in 10Mb/s mode I think)
[04:22] <daniels> Treenaks: the current acceleration architecture, which is crap and the main thing making composite so goddamn slow
[04:23] <Treenaks> daniels: ah, so it'll replaced by New Cool Acceleration, and we won't have unaccelerated X where the slowness of composite is no longer noticable because the rest is slow too :P
[04:23] <Hwolf> Is there are target system for development? Gnome is already slow, imho. :-S
[04:23] <daniels> lamont: see your mail -- these NEED to merged for -18, which would ideally happen ASAP
[04:23] <svenl> Kamion: on the pegasos ? 
[04:23] <tseng> Hwolf: this stuff is really off topic imo.
[04:24] <svenl> Kamion: the mv643xx_eth driver it is.
[04:24] <Kamion> svenl: no, the amd64 to my right
[04:24] <Kamion> svenl: oh, different driver
[04:24] <Treenaks> we need #coolnewstuff
[04:24] <svenl> Kamion: it is a different driver, the amd64 stuff is just a marvell phy or something, while the pegasos gige port is builtin the northbridge.
[04:24] <Kamion> yeah
[04:24] <daniels> lamont: (we need the mouse stuff to do multiseat-udeb properly)
[04:25] <daniels> mmm, marvell phys definitely work fine
[04:25] <ogra> sivang: mdz's GF afaik
[04:25] <sivang> ogra: ah ok, I saw this https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MonikaWebsiteContent
[04:26] <Kamion> daniels: -18's already happened
[04:26] <daniels> Kamion: with the new ABI?
[04:26] <ogra> sivang: yeah... nice new structure
[04:26] <Kamion> daniels: no, fixing the ABI change inadvertently introduced in -17
[04:26] <daniels> Kamion: oh, right
[04:26] <daniels> lamont: -19, then
[04:27] <fabbione> yeah but wait for -19
[04:28] <zul> daniels: what changes if you dont mind me asking
[04:28] <fabbione> since you have to change the ABI
[04:28] <fabbione> you can pull in safely N changes
[04:28] <fabbione> zul: all the package naming
[04:28] <fabbione> 2.6.10-3 will be -4
[04:28] <fabbione> and so on
[04:29] <fabbione> so everything needs to be rebuilded
[04:29] <Kamion> fabbione: we need this stuff before the ABI change, and separate from it
[04:29] <fabbione> and the user MUST reboot to use the new kernel
[04:29] <Kamion> mantiena: try 'export LANG=C.UTF-8' in that demo thing (say, just after exporting DEBCONF_DEBUG); works much better
[04:30] <low> Kamion: same errors: invalid modules format, forcedeth, md, etc
[04:30] <zul> ah k
[04:30] <fabbione> Kamion: what do you need asap?
[04:31] <Kamion> low: gah, exact reverse problem; we got an initrd build with -17
[04:31] <Kamion> fabbione: 15:23 < daniels> lamont: see your mail -- these NEED to merged for -18, which would ideally happen ASAP
[04:31] <Kamion> fabbione: 15:24 < daniels> lamont: (we need the mouse stuff to do multiseat-udeb properly)
[04:31] <fabbione> ah shit
[04:31] <daniels> zul: CONFIG_DRM y -> m, adding mousedev and psmouse to input-modules*.udeb
[04:31] <fabbione> ok
[04:31] <zul> ok
[04:31] <low> Kamion: :( just to be sure, that was the iso from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20050215.2/
[04:32] <fabbione> daniels: we can do it with -19 today
[04:32] <low> how can i verify the build ?
[04:32] <Kamion> low: yeah, I know, just checked
[04:32] <fabbione> but elmo will kill us
[04:32] <Kamion> low: don't need to, I've verified the problem
[04:32] <low> ok.
[04:32] <Kamion> low: I'm going to execute plan B now
[04:33] <fabbione> lamont: are you around?
[04:33] <low> Kamion: which is ?
[04:33] <zul> i dont think he is fabbione 
[04:34] <Kamion> low: building with an older initrd from the last time I uploaded debian-installer by hand
[04:35] <mantiena> Kamion, ok, thanks again
[04:35] <daniels> fabbione: mmm, if you could, that would be fantastic, thanks
[04:35] <low> Kamion: ok. i'm still at work for, hmmm, 1 hour and a half. hope i'll have time to test tonight, or i'll try tomorrow
[04:35] <svenl> Kamion: netboot installing now.
[04:35] <Kamion> low: you might do, just about
[04:36] <Kamion> mantiena: trying that with Greek, I've got the demo up as far as the partitioner
[04:36] <svenl> Kamion: upto what point is it synced with d-i ? I guess i will have to hand-boot the thing with grub2, like i did with the installer.
[04:36] <low> Kamion: you're great !
[04:36] <Kamion> svenl: whenever upstream version freeze was, see HoaryReleaseSchedule
[04:36] <mantiena> low, agree
[04:36] <fabbione> daniels: no i am not going to do -19 now. i need to leave and i will be back for the meeting
[04:36] <Kamion> plus bits and pieces
[04:37] <svenl> Kamion: you have nobootloader too, right ? 
[04:37] <fabbione> daniels: i will see later with lamont
[04:37] <svenl> Oh well, i will see after the install.
[04:37] <Kamion> nobootloader |       1.02 | hoary/main/debian-installer | all
[04:37] <Kamion> (i.e. yes)
[04:37] <tritium> trulux, looks good, but I think you should remove table of contents, list of figures, and list of tables
[04:37] <svenl> cool.
[04:37] <svenl> Kamion: i guess you don't have real time for pegasos support stuff, right ? 
[04:38] <svenl> Kamion: i will be doing some OF hacking on thursday/friday, and intent to have yaboot and grub2 working once i am done with this.
[04:38] <svenl> this mean that pegasos support probably needs either only the new OF, or also a yaboot upgrade.
[04:39] <svenl> and probably some yaboot-installer work.
[04:40] <Kamion> svenl: sadly not really, I have a million and one scheduled things to do before the next release still
[04:40] <Kamion> I can do some little bits of integration help and merging and stuff but that's about it
[04:41] <svenl> Kamion: well, i booted the initrd.gz and vmlinux with grub2, and am doing the install.
[04:41] <svenl> Kamion: i can follow the rest of it, and fill bugs or patches or whatever if needed.
[04:41] <mantiena> Kamion, it seems after fixing suite I can test my installer at least ;) only one problem - "Abort the installation" item from debian-installer menu doesn't work, so I can't exit :( :(
[04:41] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, that's fine, thanks
[04:42] <daniels> night all
[04:42] <mantiena> bye daniels 
[04:42] <madduck> what does the D-BUS acronym stand for?
[04:42] <svenl> Mmm, i am trying to register myself on the wiki, but when trying to log in, using my luther@debian.org address, it tells me the account already exists, and i see no way to send me the passwd or something.
[04:43] <svenl> hi madduck 
[04:44] <Kamion> mantiena: do not expect demo to work for you without *substantial* hacking. It's a demo. I didn't suggest it to you with the aim that you use it, I suggested it as an example of some of the things you have to do
[04:44] <svenl> Mmm.
[04:45] <Kamion> mantiena: also nobody's put any kind of significant work into the demo for months and months
[04:45] <mantiena> Kamion, it seems here is the main problem ;)
[04:45] <svenl> Kamion: neat, all worked.
[04:46] <Kamion> mantiena: yeah, but it's not intended to be used for production
[04:46] <svenl> Kamion: is there some post-reboot install needed too ? 
[04:46] <Kamion> svenl: same as Debian
[04:46] <Kamion> same kickoff procedure, anyway
[04:46] <svenl> Kamion: ah.
[04:46] <mantiena> Kamion, I try to make it more stable ;)
[04:46] <Kamion> mantiena: please write something new instead
[04:46] <Kamion> using those ideas
[04:47] <mantiena> Kamion, instead what ?
[04:47] <Kamion> instead of trying to abuse the demo for things that it was never intended to do
[04:47] <svenl> Kamion: if i want a user without root access, it is best to create a second user without sudo access ? 
[04:47] <Kamion> svenl: yes
[04:47] <svenl> Kamion: mmm.
[04:47] <svenl> Kamion: seems a bit convoluted as approach (is that even an english word ?)
[04:48] <mantiena> Kamion, I'm not trying demo, I simply use unpacked and mounted initrd.gz from live CD :)
[04:48] <Kamion> mantiena: ok
[04:48] <Kamion> mantiena: but I think that that's still pretty inappropriate, you don't want to execute most of the early stuff there
[04:48] <svenl> Damn, didn't copy the name of the kernel :/
[04:48] <Kamion> I tried to tell you this the other day but I didn't seem to be getting through
[04:48] <Kamion> that early code has already been run, and should not be run again
[04:49] <mantiena> Kamion, I understand this
[04:51] <mantiena> Kamion, I think I find the way how to prevent unneeded d-i modules from starting ;)
[04:51] <mantiena> maybe udeb_exclude ?
[04:51] <svenl> video/win 33
[04:55] <Kamion> mantiena: the right way is to build an image that actually matches what you need, not to abuse some other image
[04:57] <Kamion> mantiena: (then, for example, you could include di-utils-exit-installer rather than di-utils-reboot)
[04:57] <mantiena> Kamion, my goal is to make simple d-i component which can work in liveCD text mode, so people could install live CD without starting X and gnome
[04:57] <Kamion> yes, I know
[04:57] <mantiena> Kamion, thanks
[04:58] <Kamion> the debian-installer source package already spits out quite a few source packages. yours may have to behave rather differently though, since it's running in a chroot rather than being there from system startup
[04:58] <Kamion> s/quite a few source packages/quite a few images/
[04:58] <mantiena> Kamion, I think modifying udeb_include and udeb_exclude is pretty good way, I'm right ?
[04:59] <Kamion> no
[04:59] <Kamion> apart from anything else it will not help for anything that runs before anna
[04:59] <Kamion> and it's really not particularly what you need
[05:00] <Kamion> you should seed the cdebconf database in the chroot with the cdebconf database from the live CD startup phase, to start with
[05:00] <Kamion> that will help a bit
[05:00] <Kamion> but you may need to remove some things from that
[05:02] <mantiena> Kamion, thanks again, I try to preseed cdebconf database, I saw some info how to preseed into d-i documentation
[05:02] <Kamion> I wouldn't call it preseeding as such
[05:03] <Kamion> the d-i documentation will probably not be helpful to you in this area, because it's focused on people doing automatic installs, which is very different and isn't what I was driving at
[05:03] <Kamion> basically all you need to do is get a copy of the cdebconf database from when casper was running, and shove that into your chroot
[05:04] <haggai> lamont: ping
[05:08] <mantiena> Kamion, problem is, that cdebconf database, like all other data is erased after casper finishes and Ubuntu starts from livefilesystem
[05:10] <Kamion> mantiena: casper could easily be made to copy it into the live system, in the same way that the installer copies it into the installed system
[05:10] <Kamion> mantiena: in fact, casper *already* does so
[05:10] <Kamion> look in /var/log/casper
[05:10] <thom> Kamion: if you look at people.ubuntu.com/~thom/ does hoary-install-ia64.iso look the right size and stuff to you?
[05:11] <Kamion> although it would probably also need to copy templates.dat
[05:11] <mantiena> Kamion, all answers are in questions.dat.gz ?
[05:11] <Kamion> thom: yeah, that looks about right, 100MB difference which is probably just down to 1000 vs. 1024
[05:11] <thom> cool
[05:12] <Kamion> mantiena: yes
[05:12] <thom> now to see if this stays stable :-)
[05:12] <mantiena> Kamion, you are very good helper ;)
[05:16] <mantiena> Kamion, without your help my coding was four times slower
[05:16] <mantiena> I'm very happy
[05:22] <svenl> fabbione: what is the status of the marvell_pegasos patch in the ubuntu/hoary 2.6.10 kernel ? 
[05:22] <madduck> what does the D-BUS acronym stand for?
[05:22] <madduck> distributed? data? dorky?
[05:25] <Kamion> low: ok, try this latest cd
[05:25] <mjg59> sivang: Played with Looking Glass+
[05:25] <mjg59> ?
[05:27] <svenl> Oh well, how comes i have a vmlinux.coff installed in /boot ? 
[05:27] <low> Kaloz: ok thx :)
[05:27] <svenl> and it doesn't even include the initrd, no way this file will ever work.
[05:27] <low> Kamion, even
[05:27] <Astharot> ciao
[05:29] <ogra> mjg59: did you already try it ?
[05:31] <Kaloz> low: np, we like xchat :p
[05:31] <Kaloz> ogra: hello. i was missing due to upgrading my workstation.. now i'm waiting for a new kernel to be able to use it, hehe :p
[05:32] <elmo> can w3m be told to auto-reload a page every n-minutes?
[05:32] <ogra> Kaloz: join us in #ubuntu-motu ;)
[05:32] <Kaloz> okie :)
[05:34] <mjg59> ogra: I've played with it at an expo
[05:34] <svenl> Mmm. is there a way to create a base-only ubuntu install ? without X and all the stuff ? in expert mode maybe ?
[05:37] <thom> Kamion: you should have cdimage DVD love now :-)
[05:38] <sid77> ciao
[05:38] <low> Kaloz: yep, still not used to new completion :S
[05:39] <low> gah, Kamion , one more time :)
[05:41] <Kamion> thom: awesome
[05:41] <Kamion> thanks :)
[05:41] <thom> np
[05:41] <Kamion> svenl: that's "custom" in warty or "server" in hoary
[05:42] <Kamion> no need for expert mode
[05:42] <low> Kamion: well, i leave work, will tell you tomorrow mornin
[05:43] <seb128> smurfix: here ?
[05:44] <smurfix> seb128: yep
[05:44] <seb128> smurfix: the confile bugs ... what's needed to fix it ?
[05:45] <smurfix> seb128: I'm insufficiently experienced with dpkg to answer that question. :-/
[05:45] <ogra> mjg59: ah, i thought you already tried it on ubuntu ;)
[05:45] <seb128> smurfix: k
[05:45] <svenl> Kamion: euh ?
[05:45] <svenl> Kamion: where do i specify server ?
[05:45] <mjg59> ogra: Hell no - it's in Java and scares me too much
[05:46] <smurfix> seb128: offhand, I'd guess a Replaces: on the package which owned it previously
[05:46] <ogra> mjg59:  hehe
[05:47] <svenl> Kamion: oh, i guess it is some special yaboot target, will look at the yaboot.conf on the iso i just downloaded.
[05:47] <Hwolf> daniels: You around?
[05:49] <svenl> Kamion: indeed, nice it is just a preseed thingy.
[05:49] <svenl> )
[05:50] <Kamion> svenl: oh, yeah, need to fix that up
[05:50] <Kamion> svenl: in the meantime, 'echo d-i base-config/package-selection string >> /var/log/debconf-seed' from tty2 at some point in the installation should do most of the job
[05:51] <svenl> Kamion: i guess i can just grab the server.seed file and move it to a local http server and use it with preseed/url will work too ? 
[05:52] <wasabi> see. =(
[05:52] <wasabi> oops.
[05:59] <Kamion> svenl: should work, yeah
[06:09] <Hwolf> hm. After upgrading ubuntu-desktop/base, I've lost the system sounds.
[06:11] <smurfix> Hwolf: You mean the login/logout ones?
[06:11] <Hwolf> Yup
[06:12] <svenl> Kamion: well, X is hosed on the pegasos, it seems
[06:13] <Kamion> svenl: :(
[06:14] <svenl> Ok, fixed.
[06:14] <svenl> Seems like UseFBDev should not be used.
[06:14] <mako_> sivang: around?
[06:14] <svenl> I don't know what is going on with UseFBDev and RadeonFB, but it seems that the mode that the X server requests are not accepted by radeonfb, it has been so for a while.
[06:15] <svenl> mako_: hi, i sent you mail, jbailey suggested i should do it like that, but am not convinced it is the right way.
[06:15] <mako_> sivang: i'm contacted by an israeli computer shop that wants to distribute preinstalled computers
[06:15] <mako_> svenl: about cds?
[06:15] <mako_> Treenaks: nice :)
[06:15] <jbailey> svenl: What I told you was that it's how I did all of my installs but one. =)
[06:16] <Treenaks> Just in time for tomorrow's ubuntu-nl meeting :)
[06:16] <jbailey> svenl: It's not without pain, but it's less pain than I watched you go through this morning. =)
[06:16] <svenl> mako_: about the code of conduct stuff, and maybe about how to access the wiki, since it seems luther@debian.org seems already registered, but i have no password for it.
[06:16] <svenl> jbailey: well, i did a true d-i install, not the debootstrap way like you did.
[06:17] <mako_> svenl: whoa? really?
[06:17] <svenl> Only 3 issues ?
[06:17] <svenl> 1) need grub2 to boot the stuff since yaboot won't do it from net or CD.
[06:17] <mako_> svenl: let me chase this one down
[06:17] <svenl> => could be solved by adding the mkvmlinuz magic at least for netboot.
[06:17] <mako_> svenl: can you have it email you a new password?
[06:18] <svenl> 2) meed to set MODULES=dep in /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf, or the initrd is too big for grub2.
[06:18] <svenl> 3) this X issue.
[06:18] <svenl> mako_: i didn't find how to do it.
[06:21] <svenl> BTW, does the wiki registration also allow to access the bugzilla ? 
[06:22] <Kamion> no, bugzilla's separate as far as I know :-/
[06:22] <haggai> what does 'dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH' report on amd64?
[06:22] <dholbach> haggai: amd64
[06:23] <haggai> dholbach: thx
[06:24] <svenl> oh well, DRI seems to not be enabled in hoary/radeon.
[06:24] <pitti> fabbione: ping
[06:24] <fabbione> pitti: fast pong.. i am on the way out
[06:25] <svenl> ah, need to force pci mode.
[06:28] <svenl> daniels: you there ? 
[06:28] <bob2> it's 0430 here
[06:29] <bob2> so, "probably not"
[06:29] <svenl> daniels: X needs Option "BusType" "PCI" on pegasos and radeon.
[06:29] <fabbione> svenl: send him the info that includes how to identify that it is a pegasos
[06:31] <svenl> fabbione: oh well.
[06:31] <Kamion> what's happened to the icons in the top panel that used to be there on a fresh installation?
[06:31] <svenl> $ more /proc/cpuinfo
[06:31] <svenl> machine         : CHRP Pegasos2
[06:31] <svenl> obviously.
[06:31] <Kamion> (and should whatever it is be fixed by array cd 5?)
[06:47] <T-Bone> svenl: ping?
[06:47] <svenl> T-Bone: pong.
[06:47] <T-Bone> svenl: so you want to hack on ubuntu's kernel as well? :)
[06:48] <svenl> I hear that you are part of the ubuntu kernel team, and doing powerpc, but the powerpc porter is listed as vacant on the wiki, and i was thinking of going for it.
[06:48] <T-Bone> well tbh i din't take time to touch the wiki
[06:49] <T-Bone> sure you can do it. Dunno how lamont and zul want to handle that, tho. Maybe you push patches up to me and i get them merged with lamont?
[06:51] <T-Bone> svenl: have you looked at ubuntu's linux package? It's pretty different from the debian one...
[06:53] <zul> T-Bone: hola
[06:53] <dredg> well, it does, but it shouldn't :)
[06:53] <T-Bone> hey zul!
[06:53] <dredg> (unless this is still 1987 and we're waiting for classful addressing to go away)
[06:54] <bob2> haha
[06:55] <dredg> i assume that ifupdown is the package to file a bug against?
[06:58] <svenl> T-Bone: i know about ubuntu's kernel packages.
[06:58] <svenl> (sorry, am cooking at the same time, so ...)
[06:58] <svenl> T-Bone: there are some stuff missing in them, like the mkvmlinuz support stuff.
[06:59] <svenl> T-Bone: but basically they are single package, and have a different set of patches applied, no ? 
[06:59] <T-Bone> svenl: i think that the idea is not to have mkvmlinuz, as it shouldn't be needed,
[06:59] <T-Bone> and if you think about Pegasos, jbailey has a solution in progress ;)
[07:00] <svenl> T-Bone: i know about the grub2 work, but what about netbooting, which is much nicer with the zImage.initrd stuff, and what about things like prep ? 
[07:00] <T-Bone> svenl: it's a megapackage with all patches in it, including d-i stuff. The current scheme has a "team leader" (currently lamont, zul and me) doing main uploads, and a set of "porters" and "subsystem guys" doing patches and pushing them to us
[07:01] <T-Bone> svenl: prep isn't supported (yet) afaik
[07:01] <svenl> T-Bone: the reason why there is no mkvmlinuz support, is simply because the ppc port originated on pmacs which where able to use yaboot.
[07:01] <Kamion> if we were to support prep we'd have to have reliable testing for it; can't release untested stuff
[07:01] <T-Bone> svenl: as Kamion said
[07:01] <svenl> T-Bone: i have a prep, support could as easy as making sure the kernel boots on it.
[07:02] <svenl> Kamion: bah, whatever.
[07:02] <svenl> Ok, back in a bit, the kitchen calls.
[07:02] <Kamion> make that "making sure the release works on it from start to finish", no half-measures :)
[07:02] <T-Bone> svenl: 'testing' means more than a single configuration
[07:04] <T-Bone> Kamion: the latest ISO roll has -18 on them, right?
[07:05] <svenl> Kamion: hoary+1 i think anyway.
[07:05] <svenl> T-Bone: come on, what are you trying to tell me ?
[07:05] <Kamion> T-Bone: for all arches except ia64, since ia64 hadn't quite built it yet; I have another set of ISOs building now to pick up the ia64 change
[07:05] <T-Bone> ah ok cool
[07:05] <T-Bone> i'll wait a bit then
[07:06] <sivang> morning mdz 
[07:06] <T-Bone> i'd like to make sure i've fixed the zx6000 issue, and then report to you for the elilo bug :)
[07:06] <svenl> T-Bone: i have access to 4 different powerpc subarches here, not counting the quad power5 at augsburg, so i don't understand the problem really.
[07:06] <mdz> morning
[07:06] <T-Bone> svenl: Kamion explained it fairly well. If you can cope with that I have nothing to say
[07:07] <T-Bone> svenl: I'm not omniscient, I can't *guess* what hardware you've got access to
[07:07] <svenl> T-Bone: i am just saying that i volunteer to jump in as powerpc porter, not getting into details like that.
[07:08] <T-Bone> svenl: what details?
[07:08] <svenl> T-Bone: those you agressed mewith :)
[07:08] <T-Bone> o_O
[07:09] <svenl> no seriously, i perfectly know what is needed, and the stability standard i will be hold too, so ...
[07:10] <T-Bone> svenl: i don't think i've "agressed" you in any way, and please excuse me if I did so. All I did was stating a few facts on how we work here, and what it takes to add a supported architecture. Merely important stuff imho, not details
[07:10] <svenl> T-Bone: i know what jbailey has been doing with grub2.
[07:10] <svenl> T-Bone: ah, you missed the smiley :)
[07:10] <T-Bone> svenl: i know that you know, hence the 'smiley'
[07:11] <svenl> T-Bone: prep was just an example, a detail. yaboot is clearly not the solution to all, and grub2 probably won't in the near future,
[07:13] <T-Bone> svenl: that doesn't change a thing to how we work. We're not going to add stuff we don't need until we need it. For now, only macs are supported, and yaboot is a "just fine" solution for macs. Please don't reverse-solve problems
[07:15] <svenl> T-Bone: so what ? did i say i would force it in or something ? the fact that i still think it is a good idea to have it in (and fully orthogonal to the yaboot stuff), has nothing to do with my ability to do the necessary job for ppc porting.
[07:15] <T-Bone> i never said anything like that
[07:16] <svenl> T-Bone: read your above sentence please and repeat me that.
[07:17] <T-Bone> svenl: I never said anything related to your ability to do the necessary job for ppc porting. I merely told you how we work here, for I'm not assuming you already know how Ubuntu works compaired to Debian.
[07:17] <T-Bone> Please don't make me say what I'm not :P
[07:18] <T-Bone> I know that you are perfectly able to do a fine job, as you already do with Debian.
[07:20] <svenl> T-Bone: well, i know how you work, i have been doing d-i work with Kamion since >1year, and interacted with other ubuntu guys about various issues, and also understand the comercial need for staibility, and short release cycle needs
[07:21] <T-Bone> then it's all fine :)
[07:22] <svenl> T-Bone: as you said.
[07:22] <T-Bone> now if you'd excuse, i have to run out for a short while, be back in ~ half an hour
[07:23] <T-Bone> +me
[07:23] <svenl> T-Bone: except that your wiki thinks luther@debian.org  is already registered.
[07:23] <T-Gone> i don't own a wiki
[07:23] <T-Gone> ;P
[07:29] <sivang> does anybody know if we have a "you need to install this stuff" wiki page for people wanting to do pkg/code development on their system?
[07:29] <mantiena> Kamion, still online ?
[07:29] <tseng> sivang: DeveloperResources, i just added some more docs last night
[07:30] <dholbach> tseng: oh cool, rocking!
[07:30] <dholbach> tseng: just in time for valentine's erm ubuntu-love day :-)
[07:30] <sivang> tseng: cool, I just thought to "port" some stuff from the NM guide to a page for us, but since you arealdy did it- cooool
[07:30] <tseng> sivang: actually i just linked to it
[07:30] <mako> can i get a german speaker to help me with some info mail?
[07:30] <mako> info@ubuntu
[07:30] <tseng> its still valid imo
[07:31] <dholbach> mako: i can help you
[07:31] <amu> todays-live, still doesnt boot, crash while booting with kernel panic 
[07:31] <amu> mako: you are all times welcome 
[07:31] <sivang> tseng: DeveloperResources seems to have no specific pkgs you need to install, am I missingn anything?
[07:31] <mantiena> amu, really ?
[07:32] <tseng> sivang: yes, read the NM
[07:32] <tseng> sivang: and you shall be enlightened
[07:32] <tseng> section 1.1
[07:32] <tseng> build-essential plus anything else mentioned there
[07:33] <sivang> tseng: I read it, but everytime I set up a new system (just moved to my new SATA) I need to reinstall the devel packages, would be good to have a short list with pkg names only to copy paste install :)
[07:33] <tseng> build-essential !
[07:33] <sivang> tseng: okok :)
[07:33] <elmo> crimsun: ?
[07:33] <elmo> dholbach: done (offlineimap)
[07:33] <tseng> sivang: also.. when working on package foo you can apt-get build-dep foo
[07:33] <dholbach> elmo: rocking
[07:34] <amu> mantiena: yep
[07:34] <sivang> tseng: eh, right, then it will grab each one's depends , cool enough - thanks.
[07:34] <mantiena> amu, with Kamions help I got running installer from liveCD chroot and I'm testing liveCD installer now ;)
[07:35] <amu> mantiena: rocks
[07:40] <Kamion> mantiena: yes
[07:40] <Kamion> create my md device, damn you
[07:41] <elmo> "steaming pain"? that's an interestingly mixed metaphor
[07:42] <mantiena> Kamion, maybe you know why language packs aren't included in hoary live CD ?
[07:42] <Treenaks> hm.. udev not creating Md devices? :P
[07:44] <pitti> Treenaks: his last revenge :-)
[07:44] <pitti> Treenaks: s/last/latest/
[07:44] <Kamion> mantiena: they're not seeded yet
[07:45] <pitti> mantiena: this topic is discussed in today's TB BTW
[07:45] <svenl> hi amu ...
[07:52] <Kamion> T-Gone: ia64 iso up now
[07:53] <amu> svenl: *waves*
[07:57] <svenl> amu: did you ever get my emails about the pegasos offer last year ? 
[07:59] <amu> svenl: sure and answered them :)  
[07:59] <whiprush> aanyone seen mako?
[07:59] <svenl> amu: mmm, never reached me though.
[08:00] <mako> whiprush: he's around :)
[08:01] <whiprush> bring more CDs, I've given away all mine. ;)
[08:02] <mako> whiprush: are you in LWCE?
[08:02] <whiprush> yeah
[08:03] <whiprush> gnome booth
[08:03] <whiprush> with havoc
[08:03] <mako> whiprush: i'll get into town tonight
[08:03] <mako> whiprush: i really don't have as many left as i thought
[08:03] <mako> grr..
[08:04] <mako> i'll order more for myself now and bring all i have.. i have enough
[08:05] <sivang> whiprush: LWCE is a linux event?
[08:05] <mako> sivang: linuxworld
[08:05] <sivang> mako: oh. 
[08:05] <sivang> mako: where is it held this time ?
[08:05] <mako> sivang: boston
[08:05] <mako> i'll leave immediately after the TB meeting today
[08:08] <T-Bone> Kamion: roger that, rsync in progress
[08:10] <fabbione> re
[08:11] <fabbione> lamont: ping?
[08:11] <T-Bone> hey fabbione!
[08:11] <fabbione> hi T-Bone 
[08:11] <T-Bone> how's the bride? :^)
[08:11] <fabbione> sleeping
[08:11] <T-Bone> lol
[08:11] <fabbione> she just crashed in the bed
[08:11] <fabbione> and i was close to
[08:11] <T-Bone> hehe! Congrats anyway!
[08:12] <fabbione> thanks :-)
[08:12] <zul> heh...your freedom is gone now...its all down hill from here
[08:13] <dholbach> ok... i'm off - have a nice evening everyone
[08:16] <fabbione> zul, T-Bone: do you have daniels email about the required changes for the kernel?
[08:16] <fabbione> i  know he was asking for a couple of things like DRM=m
[08:16] <fabbione> and there were 2 other things
[08:17] <seb128> elmo: hicolor-icon-theme sync please
[08:17] <zul> fabbione: dont think so let me check
[08:17] <elmo> seb128: done
[08:17] <seb128> thanks
[08:18] <T-Bone> fabbione: nah I don't have this one
[08:18] <zul> nope
[08:18] <fabbione> ok
[08:19] <AndyR> lo all
[08:27] <fabbione> ok
[08:27] <fabbione> preparing -19 to fix daniels crack
[08:27] <fabbione> after that the kernel is back to the team
[08:28] <smurfix> fabbione: Is that the "how many kernels packages can we do in a day" contest?  ;-)
[08:29] <T-Bone> fabbione: heh. Weren;t you supposed to let us deal with 2.6.10? :^)
[08:29] <fabbione> smurfix: no.. i would win that easily
[08:29] <T-Bone> lol
[08:29] <fabbione> T-Bone: yes. but emergency > *
[08:29] <T-Bone> heh. Fair enough :)
[08:30] <fabbione> AndyR: it's a GTK bug
[08:30] <zul> T-Bone: let it go :)
[08:30] <AndyR> fabbione, thank you
[08:30] <fabbione> AndyR: no sorry.. i was just kidding
[08:30] <seb128> :p
[08:30] <T-Bone> zul: hehe ;)
[08:31] <zul> *cough* full of it *cough*
[08:31] <T-Bone> fabbione: looks like your wedding got to your head. Get some cold shower to cool it down ;^))
[08:31] <fabbione> ahha
[08:31] <fabbione> that's nothing
[08:32] <fabbione> it's more fun when i play pinhead or God
[08:32] <zul> i was the same way when i had my wedding
[08:33] <fabbione> nahhh
[08:33] <fabbione> i did that way before i decided to get married
[08:33] <smurfix> elmo: please de-NEW keymapper
[08:33] <T-Bone> zul: see, fabbione is a long-time nuthead :^)
[08:34] <zul> no he said pinhead 
[08:34] <Kamion> smurfix: (hope you're not expecting keymapper in array cd 5 BTW)
[08:34] <T-Bone> hmm true ;)
[08:34] <Kamion> smurfix: does it have priority optional or extra?
[08:35] <fabbione> T-Bone, zul: i think you need to see the movies Hellraiser to understand what i mean
[08:35] <smurfix> Kamion: Awww... 
[08:35] <smurfix> Kamion: optional
[08:35] <T-Bone> fabbione: aaaaah
[08:35] <zul> hehe
[08:35] <Kamion> smurfix: ok, fine
[08:35] <Kamion> smurfix: (we need array cd 5 to be really stable)
[08:36] <smurfix> Kamion: as I understand, extra wouldn't be a good idea for something that's ultimately needed to build the installer
[08:36] <Kamion> smurfix: optional or extra doesn't make the slightest bit of difference
[08:36] <smurfix> Kamion: Hmm, so why did you ask?
[08:36] <Kamion> smurfix: the only thing that makes a difference to d-i is whether it's >= standard or < standard
[08:37] <Kamion> smurfix: I asked "does it have priority optional or extra" as opposed to standard, important, or required :)
[08:37] <Kamion> >= standard udebs get used by default
[08:37] <Kamion> some < standard udebs get used by default too, but that's by virtue of being in the initrd
[08:37] <smurfix> Kamion: ah ;-)   No, the thing doesn't need to be installed anywhere except on the system that builds the console-data udebs
[08:37] <Kamion> or for other reasons
[08:38] <Kamion> smurfix: the udeb needs to be installed eventually, though; but it'll go in the initrd
[08:38] <smurfix> Kamion: sure
[08:38] <Kamion> smurfix: oh, is this just a build system helper? I thought it was the udeb
[08:39] <smurfix> Kamion: The additional udeb will be built by console-data as soon as I'm done with it, which should be RSN
[08:40] <smurfix> Kamion: ... which I'll (obviously) hold off on until after elmo has processed keymapper.
[08:42] <Kamion> ok, right, as long as *that* udeb is priority < standard then I'll be happy :)
[08:56] <mdz> tech board meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 5 minutes
[09:08] <T-Bone> feh, just in time :)
[09:09] <fabbione> ok the kernel -19 is going up now
[09:09] <fabbione> now.. 
[09:09] <T-Bone> GO TO BED! :)
[09:09] <fabbione> Dear Kernel Team,
[09:09] <fabbione>  please take over
[09:09] <fabbione>  and let me go in honeymoon
[09:09] <T-Bone> will do, until your next upload :)
[09:09] <fabbione> 
[09:09] <fabbione> Kthxbye,
[09:09] <fabbione> Fabio
[09:09] <T-Bone> have a nice a sweet time!
[09:10] <fabbione> i am looking forward to thursday :-)
[09:10] <T-Bone> lol
[09:10] <fabbione> and to next monday when i will be swimming with the Galapagos Penguin
[09:10] <T-Bone> Damn!
[09:11] <T-Bone> heading to the Galapagos heh?
[09:11] <fabbione> yup
[09:11] <kent> fabbione, have a nice wedding! :)
[09:11] <T-Bone> lucky guy!
[09:11] <fabbione> kent: hem.. that's late for that ;)
[09:11] <T-Bone> fabbione: enjoy it, and forget everything else.
[09:11] <kent> fabbione, oh, haha, i dont know you, so i just assumed you were getting married, but perhaps you already are now? :)
[09:12] <T-Bone> if you don't get 200% into it, you'll regret it :)
[09:12] <fabbione> T-Bone: yeah i know
[09:12] <fabbione> kent: i got married last saturday
[09:13] <T-Bone> fabbione: heh, that (hopefully) happens only once in a lifetime! You'd better not miss that time ;)
[09:13] <fabbione> T-Bone: yeah once for each wife :P
[09:13] <T-Bone> LOL
[09:13] <T-Bone> shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame on you, you nasty boy ;)
[09:21] <T-Bone> ARG! Kernel bug strikes back
[09:21] <T-Bone> lamont, Kamion : ia64 won't find its cdrom again
[09:21] <Kamion> sigh
[09:21] <Kamion> please investigate
[09:21] <T-Bone> if only I knew where to look
[09:21] <T-Bone> last time it was fixed in the next ISO i tried...
[09:22] <T-Bone> and i never found out what was wrong
[09:22] <T-Bone> i don't know whether that's something you change in d-i or some ABI breakage in the kernel...
[09:23] <fabbione> T-Bone: just wait -19 to be around tomorrow
[09:23] <fabbione> and that everything is synced again
[09:23] <T-Bone> fabbione: i guess so
[09:23] <fabbione> i am pretty sure -17 has been used for some stuff
[09:23] <fabbione> ence the breakage
[09:23] <T-Bone> fabbione: i'm using kamion latest roll with -18 on it
[09:24] <T-Bone> and last time i hit that bug was 1 or 2 weeks ago
[09:24] <zul> *sigh*
[09:25] <T-Bone> indeed :(
[09:25] <fabbione> there was also a report for sparc not recognizing the netcard
[09:25] <fabbione> that it is kinda weird
[09:25] <fabbione> so perhaps it is not necessarely the kernel at fault here
[09:26] <T-Bone> that's why i'd like to know whether d-i has changed lately ;)
[09:27] <T-Bone> it's kinda weird that I had the bug, then it vanished, and now it's back again :P
[09:34] <Kamion> T-Bone: I thought I remembered it being a kernel problem
[09:34] <Kamion> T-Bone: there have been no relevant changes in d-i
[09:35] <Kamion> +  * ia64
[09:35] <Kamion> +    - Remove amd74xx from debian/d-i/ia64/modules/ia64/ide-modules
[09:35] <Kamion> that was what fixed it
[09:35] <T-Bone> nah. That fixed the error prompt
[09:35] <Kamion> T-Bone: no, it fixed much more than that
[09:36] <T-Bone> ?
[09:36] <Kamion> T-Bone: our kernel packages do not check the return code from kernel-wedge (which I think is a clear and severe bug in our kernel packages, but Fabio disagreed last time I mentioned it, so I dropped the issue)
[09:37] <Kamion> T-Bone: kernel-wedge stops copying modules when it encounters a module name that it's been told to copy but that it couldn't find
[09:37] <T-Bone> hmm
[09:37] <Kamion> T-Bone: so everything following amd74xx in debian/d-i/ia64/modules/ia64/ide-modules was totally missing (including isofs.ko), and a number of other udebs were empty
[09:38] <fabbione> Kamion: no. i didn't disagree
[09:38] <T-Bone> Kamion: ah ok.
[09:39] <fabbione> Kamion: but kernel-wedge breaks in other interesting ways i had no time to figure out
[09:39] <T-Bone> Kamion: something strange: if i look in dmesg output, tho ide-cd is loaded, i don't see the "Uniform CD-ROM driver loaded"
[09:40] <T-Bone> Kamion: when i modprobe -r the module, it says "Uniform CD-ROM driver unloaded", but if i modprobe it back, nothing happens...
[09:41] <fabbione> T-Bone: try to modprobe cdrom
[09:41] <fabbione> ide-cd is only one of the mods you need
[09:41] <T-Bone> fabbione: cdrom is loaded when modprobing ide-cd
[09:42] <T-Bone> i rmmod'd both of them before loading ide-cd
[09:42] <T-Bone> i'm also quite suspicious at the number of IDE interface reported to be probed: 6
[09:42] <T-Bone> i don't think there's that many in the box
[09:42] <Kamion> T-Bone: I'd suggest diffing udeb contents from -16 to -17 to -18
[09:42] <fabbione> skip -17
[09:43] <fabbione> and go directly for -19
[09:43] <T-Bone> Kamion: any easy way to do that?
[09:43] <Kamion> -18 is what is on the current CDs
[09:43] <Kamion> T-Bone: debdiff?
[09:43] <T-Bone> doh
[09:46] <fabbione> T-Bone: you can add to the kernel TODO list to remove the || true on kernel-wedge call
[09:46] <fabbione> T-Bone: and fix either kernel-wedge or the kenrel package
[09:46] <fabbione> depending is in the worst shape ;)
[09:48] <T-Bone> heh
[09:48] <T-Bone> fabbione: i've pointed lamont at some other likely bug too
[09:49] <fabbione> T-Bone: we need the fixes.. not the bugs :-)
[09:49] <T-Bone> fabbione: i have a life, too, you know? :)
[09:49] <fabbione> T-Bone: that's what you believe
[09:49] <fabbione> not after you offered volunteer for the kernel team
[09:49] <fabbione> :P
[09:50] <T-Bone> lol
[09:50] <T-Bone> Kamion: that's either a kernel bug, or a module init bug, or something related to that. /proc/interrupts shows no trace of the ide interfaces, while it does on the installed ubuntu system
[09:50] <T-Bone> looks like the probing simply fails
[09:51] <T-Bone> PCI table screwed?
[09:51] <T-Bone> i don't know well enough how hotplug works alas :(
[09:51] <Kamion> look at modules.pcimap and see if it's sane
[09:52] <zul> T-Bone: you have been asimilated your gf will understand
[09:53] <T-Bone> zul: i don't think so. And even if she does, you'd have to convince my boss as well to explain him why i'm sleeping at work ;)
[09:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: what's the filetype for boot.img?
[09:54] <T-Bone> s/file/filesystem /
[09:54] <Kamion> for ia64 it's FAT of some kind
[09:54] <Kamion> created with mkfs.msdos
[09:55] <T-Bone> ah ok thx. I was trying cramfs ;P
[09:56] <Kamion> T-Bone: not unless somebody taught EFI to understand cramfs ;)
[09:56] <T-Bone> hmmm. I guess i'm not looking at the right place. modules.pcimap is in the kernel package source i suppose ;P
[09:57] <T-Bone> Kamion: heh, don't even think of it :)
[09:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: no, it's generated by depmod
[09:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: /lib/modules/blah
[09:57] <T-Bone> ah
[09:57] <T-Bone> found it
[09:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: in this case it's generated (a) during the debian-installer initrd build process (b) by various d-i modules after new module udebs are installed
[09:58] <T-Bone> arg
[09:58] <T-Bone> so i want to look at it on the booted media?
[09:59] <Kamion> T-Bone: yes
[09:59] <T-Bone> sigh
[09:59] <Kamion> at the point of failure
[09:59] <zul> T-Bone, well your boss isnt my problem :)
[10:00] <T-Bone> zul: somehow i knew you would say that
[10:00] <T-Bone> zul: but it extends to me lacking sleep in unhealthy fashion, unfortunately :P
[10:01] <T-Bone> i'm almost certain the issue is pcimaps
[10:04] <T-Bone> Bingo
[10:04] <T-Bone> Kamion: grep generic modules.pcimap yields no result
[10:05] <T-Bone> hmmm WTH
[10:05] <T-Bone> CONFIG_FUSION=m !?
[10:06] <T-Bone> uname -a: Linux (none) 2.6.10-3-itanium-smp #1 SMP Mon Feb 7 15:49:57 UTC 2005 ia64 unknown ???
[10:07] <T-Bone> Kamion: i rsync'd that ISO, what's wrong?
[10:08] <Kamion> I had to drop back to an old debian-installer build to make shit work at all
[10:08] <Kamion> because today's daily d-i build was built with -17
[10:09] <T-Bone> Grrr
[10:09] <Kamion> T-Bone: ok, that'll be fixed sometime tomorrow then
[10:09] <Kamion> T-Bone: sorry, it was you or everyone else
[10:09] <Kamion> I forgot about the fusion thing
[10:09] <T-Bone> :(
[10:09] <fabbione> argh
[10:09] <T-Bone> Kamion: it's not a fusion problem
[10:09] <fabbione> you mean FUSION should have been =y ?
[10:09] <T-Bone> Kamion: you apparently picked up the d-i version that already failed for me last week, that's all
[10:10] <Kamion> that was fixed in -17
[10:10] <T-Bone> so the issue i've been investigating since my dinner is a non-issue :(
[10:10] <Kamion> T-Bone: yes, I know. sorry :(
[10:10] <Kamion> T-Bone: everyone else was on my back for a fixed ISO though
[10:10] <T-Bone> *sigh*
[10:10] <Kamion> consider it an object lesson for the kernel team on what happens if you break the ABI ... :)
[10:10] <fabbione> T-Bone: well tomorrow there will be -19
[10:10] <T-Bone> Kamion: i understand. It's just that if you'd said so a bit earlier, I'd have been sleeping already by now :}
[10:10] <Kamion> T-Bone: sorry, I just didn't catch on that that was the issue
[10:11] <T-Bone> heh
[10:11] <Kamion> fabbione: without ABI change, I hope ...
[10:11] <fabbione> Kamion: i fixed the ABI with -18 :-)
[10:11] <fabbione> -19 is a requirement for some other modules in a udeb
[10:11] <Kamion> fabbione: I mean without deliberate ABI change
[10:12] <T-None> fabbione: there's no bigger pain for me than a shortenned night. Come back tomorrow :)
[10:12] <zul> T-None: *whine* *whine* :)
[10:12] <ogra> moquist: ping
[10:13] <T-None> zul: heh. I think I can :)
[10:18] <Kamion> damn, must not accidentally upload packages to Debian as cjwatson@ubuntu.com
[10:19] <fabbione> night ladies
[10:19] <ogra> night fabbione :)
[10:19] <sivang> night fabbione , congerts
[10:19] <pitti_> night fabbione 
[10:20] <Kamion> damn, every time someone says something like "fabbione &", I think "huh? demon? where?"
[10:20] <smurfix> elmo: please sync yapps2
[10:20] <ogra> hehe
[10:20] <smurfix> elmo: (needed for keymapper)
[10:20] <fabbione> hmm that's more like fabbione's fork in background ;)
[10:20] <fabbione> ehheh
[10:21] <ogra> Kamion: normally he switches to pinhead mode before becoming a daemon ;)
[10:21] <Kamion> ogra: well, it wasn't that kind of daemon I was thinking of; suffice to say I've played too much nethack
[10:21] <ogra> lol
[10:25] <Kamion> elmo: please sync os-prober 1.03
[10:28] <sivang> anybody know where boot admin went? (I think it's part of g-s-t)
[10:29] <tseng> its always been patched out afaik
[10:29] <mantiena> sivang, yes, it's part of g-s-t
[10:29] <sivang> tseng: ok, thanks.
[10:29] <mantiena> Kamion, when your's today fixed cdrom-retriever will be available at archive.ubuntu.com pool ?
[10:30] <sivang> seb128: is there anything wrong with boot-admin that we put it away?
[10:30] <Kamion> mantiena: I only committed the change upstream, I didn't upload it anywhere
[10:31] <Kamion> you should be setting mirror/suite so you shouldn't need it urgently
[10:31] <mantiena> Kamion, ok
[10:31] <ogra> dredg ?
[10:31] <dredg> ogra
[10:32] <mantiena> Kamion, how many hours you are working ?
[10:32] <ogra> are you going for MOTU ?
[10:32] <mantiena> per day
[10:32] <Kamion> mantiena: way too many :)
[10:32] <Kamion> certainly at least 9-10 on average
[10:32] <dredg> ogra: yes... but soon
[10:35] <mantiena> Kamion, you could have a dog, then you should go to walk with a dog every day ;)
[10:36] <dredg> ogra: why do you ask?
[10:37] <Kamion> mantiena: my fiancee already has a snake; I think one pet between us is enough for now. However, walking the snake is not so easy. :)
[10:37] <ogra> dredg: you already linked your wiki page on MaintainerCandidates ? (we are cleaning up tha page currently and i suspect you got deleted, since i dont see you there)
[10:38] <dredg> ogra: did i?
[10:38] <mantiena> mdz, still online ?
[10:38] <dredg> eep. i don't recall
[10:38] <mdz> mantiena: yes
[10:39] <ogra> dredg: dunno, thats why i asked....if you want to be a MOTU, this is the first step to take ;)
[10:39] <mantiena> mdz, why en_ZA.UTF-8, en_GB.UTF-8 and en_US.UTF-8 locales are generated every time when liveCD starts ? it wastes a lot of time on average computers (~1 Ghz, 256 RAM) :(
[10:39] <Hwolf> mantiena: gnome isn't build for average computers anyway. :-S
[10:40] <pitti> mantiena: because we decided to generate all relevant language locales when isntalling a language pack
[10:40] <mdz> mantiena: they are not supposed to be; the language support package should be preinstalled in the cloop image
[10:40] <mdz> lamont: ^^^ please check
[10:40] <Kamion> the -en one is, like, massive overkill though :)
[10:41] <pitti> not my fault that there are so many english speaking countries...
[10:41] <mdz> oh, lamont is away today
[10:41] <pitti> ;-)
[10:41] <dredg> ogra: i was looking around a fair bit, and kicked off a page yes... i *may* have accidentally linked myself in there (it was around 4am), and yes i do intend going for MOTU... just not right yet :)
[10:41] <pitti> Kamion: of course I can special-case this, but to what?
[10:41] <Kamion> pitti: I'm not all that bothered
[10:41] <bluefoxicy> freedoom depends on prboom or doom-engine
[10:41] <bluefoxicy> freedoom depends on prboom or doom-engine
[10:41] <ogra> dredg: we are in a fast maintainer approval process until hoary is released....so this is the best time to start 
[10:41] <bluefoxicy> ^^^  freedoom depends on prboom, twice :)
[10:41] <mantiena> mdz, I think problem is in casper/pre.d/15localechooser script - it uses locale.gen instead of localedef 
[10:42] <pitti> Kamion: it's primarily a live cd issue, installation won't see it often
[10:42] <bluefoxicy> out of academic curiousity, why do some dependencies show up more than once?
[10:42] <pitti> Kamion: in fact only once
[10:42] <mdz> mantiena: this was working in the past; it probably broke as a result of the transition from special-case code in the live cd build, to the language-support-en package
[10:42] <dredg> ogra: noted :) sorry if i caused any confusion
[10:43] <ogra> dredg: i already saw you made some packages, so polish them for universe inclusion ;)
[10:43] <mantiena> mdz, it works, but does unneeded work, I  can patch casper/pre.d/15localechooser script to use localedef instead of localegen if you would accept my patch
[10:44] <dredg> ogra: that's my intention :)
[10:44] <ogra> great :)
[10:44] <mdz> mantiena: talk to Kamion about it; that is his domain
[10:45] <mdz> but this used to work, so I doubt that changing localechooser is the correct fix
[10:45] <Kamion> I don't see why it should use localedef
[10:45] <Kamion> locale.gen is correct and integrates properly with the rest of the system
[10:45] <ogra> dredg: if you got questions regarding the motu process or organizational stuff, feel free to join #ubuntu-motu
[10:45] <Kamion> locale-gen, that is
[10:46] <Kamion> and locale-gen does very little more work than equivalent localedef on an initial run
[10:46] <dredg> ogra: oh excellent. will do
[10:47] <dredg> ogra: thanks :)
[10:48] <ogra> dredg: youre welcome :)
[10:57] <mantiena> Kamion, locale-gen regenerates all locales, it not checks if they are already generated
[11:00] <mantiena> Kamion, when starting from live CD regenerating already generated UTF-8 locales (en_US, en_GB and en_ZA) wastes pretty long time
[11:08] <Hwolf> 64% cpu-usage by gam-server, is that normal?
[11:09] <Kamion> mantiena: oh, I see. However, if all the locales for a language are already generated then localechooser's script should do nothing
[11:09] <Kamion> or at least not call locale-gen
[11:09] <Kamion> I think the right answer is to make sure that all the English locales are pre-generated in the cloop image so that localechooser doesn't run
[11:09] <Kamion> locale-gen
[11:10] <mdz> mantiena: the localechooser script already does that check
[11:10] <mdz> it's just a bit picky about it
[11:10] <mdz> if all of the needed locales exist, it doesn't call locale-gen
[11:10] <mdz> mantiena: /etc/locale.gen on the cloop image seems to be missing the ones you mentioned
[11:10] <mdz> lamont will need to fix it
[11:11] <mdz> thanks for finding it
[11:11] <Kamion> localechooser doesn't check for things like en_ZA though
[11:11] <Kamion> it only cares about the exact locale you selected
[11:11] <Kamion> I guess it depends which locale you ended up with
[11:12] <mdz> oh, I see the problem
[11:12] <mdz> we added language-support-en to the live seed, but not language-pack-en
[11:12] <mdz> language-pack-en does the locale generation
[11:12] <mdz> fixing
[11:13] <mdz> live_seed++ for making this trivial to fix :-)
[11:14] <ogra> bah, the new gksudo without borders is soo ugly...
[11:14] <Kamion> mdz: aha, good call
[11:14] <Kamion> and l-s-en only recommends l-p-en
[11:14] <tseng> ogra: agreed.
[11:15] <mdz> jdub: how is polypaudio treating us so far?
[11:15] <Kamion> mdz: I should make germinate spit out informational .recommends files with all the unsatisfied recommendations in each seed
[11:15] <mdz> Kamion: I was just thinking that
[11:15] <mdz> Kamion: if it's trivial, sure, otherwise add to the never-ending germinate todo
[11:15] <Kamion> I think that might not be too hard
[11:15] <Kamion> there's a never-ending germinate todo? where?! :-)
[11:16] <mdz> jbailey: ping?
[11:16] <zul> later
[11:20] <Hwolf> Is jeff waugh still here?
[11:25] <mdz> Hwolf: I have not seen jdub yet today, but he should be around soon if he is not so already
[11:29] <Hwolf> mdz: I take it that 100% cpu-usage from gamin is something he'd like to hear about?
[11:29] <mdz> Hwolf: I'm pretty sure I saw a bug report about that already
[11:30] <ogra> Hwolf: i think "like" is the wrong term here
[11:30] <mdz> Hwolf: but if there isn't, filing a bug would be the thing to do
[11:30] <Hwolf> mdz: that's why I'm asking, because I have no idea where it is coming from. :-)
[11:37] <seb128> sivang: boot is not built by upstream, we don't change the options
[11:37] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, unmaintained or something ? It used to work pretty well for me 
[11:38] <seb128> sivang: ask carlosg, I'm not upstream
[11:38] <sivang> seb128: right :-)
[11:40] <mxpxpod> is there a reason I'm getting a BADSIG on the hoary-security and hoary-release gpg keys on the powerpc archives?
[11:41] <crimsun_> which key signs? 0x437D05B5?
[11:41] <crimsun_> (from apt-key list)
[11:42] <mxpxpod> yeah
[11:43] <crimsun_> looks to be perhaps a ppc-specific issue?
[11:43] <crimsun_> ppc archive, that is
[11:43] <crimsun_> looks fine for i386
[11:48] <mxpxpod> is anyone here running hoary on an ibook g4 with benh's sleep patch applied to the kernel?
[11:48] <mxpxpod> I've got an issue where I wake my ibook up after a long sleep and then try to pop my email using evo and my laptop freezes
[11:48] <amu> mxpxpod: probably pitti, i'm not sure if he use the patches 
[11:49] <mxpxpod> it's really strange
[11:49] <pitti> mxpxpod: no, I don't use the patch
[11:49] <mxpxpod> pitti: ibook g4?
[11:49] <pitti> mxpxpod: I tried it once but it did not work
[11:49] <pitti> mxpxpod: yes, a pretty new one (Jul 04)
[11:50] <amu> pitti: mxpxpod: i think the latest sleep patches arnt applied to the hoary kernel also
[11:50] <mxpxpod> amu: I use 2.6.9
[11:51] <mxpxpod> benh doesn't have a patch for 2.6.10
[11:51] <mxpxpod> which is a shame
[11:51] <pitti> mxpxpod: according to the logs, much of the stuff was merged into 2.6.11 upstream
[11:51] <mxpxpod> oh??
[11:51] <pitti> mxpxpod: however, hoary's current 2.6.11pre kernel doesn't work for me
[11:52] <mxpxpod> that's cool
[11:52] <mxpxpod> what's this? we're not using esound anymore?
[11:52] <ogra> polypaudio :)
[11:52] <mxpxpod> what's that?
[11:52] <ogra> the esd replacement
[11:52] <mxpxpod> is it any good?
[11:53] <amu> mxpxpod: same here, using also 2.6.9 patched myself 
[11:53] <ogra> i have installed it since about an hour.....
[11:53] <mdz> mxpxpod: nah, we think it's pretty crap. that's why we selected it :-)
[11:53] <sivang> mxpxpod: you should have seen the love letter jdub wrote the mdz when polyaudio were GO, I was here when it happened :)
[11:53] <mxpxpod> mdz: :P
[11:53] <ogra> its misconfigured, but works fine after some tweaking....
[11:53] <sivang> ogra: do I need to explicitly install it or it's been auto upgraded ?
[11:54] <mxpxpod> ogra: hmm
[11:54] <mxpxpod> amu: what machine?
[11:54] <ogra> sivang: i have explicitly installed it....
[11:54] <sivang> btw, the topic is timezone unfriendly ;-)
[11:54] <mxpxpod> polyp is getting installed with ubuntu-desktop now
[11:54] <amu> mxpxpod: pb-g4
[11:55] <mxpxpod> amu: hmmm, do you remove modules before you go to sleep?
[11:57] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[11:57] <pitti> Hi jdub 
[11:57] <sivang> morning jdub !
[11:57] <sivang> we were just talking about you :)
[11:57] <ogra> GOOD MORNING JDUB
[11:57] <mxpxpod> I'm scared to install polypaudio
[11:58] <mxpxpod> does it work with libgnome*?
[11:58] <amu> mxpxpod: yeah
[11:59] <tseng> hi jdub, mxpxpod 
[11:59] <mxpxpod> amu: what modules do you remove?
[11:59] <jdub> mxpxpod: polypaudio supports the esound unix socket and tcp protocols
[11:59] <mxpxpod> tseng: hey... did you ever get that tomboy thing fixed?
[11:59] <amu> mxpxpod: alsa, hwclock
[11:59] <mxpxpod> amu: no usb stuff?
[11:59] <tseng> mxpxpod: no =/
[11:59] <azeem> mxpxpod: polypaudio is binary compatible to esound, TTBOMK
[12:00] <amu> mxpxpod: no 
[12:00] <tseng> i did try installing the pixmaps by hand to the right places but no love
[12:00] <mxpxpod> amu: hmm
[12:00] <mxpxpod> amu: what about bluetooth stuff?
[12:00] <mxpxpod> azeem: ah, ok... thanks
[12:00] <amu> mxpxpod: with my own pachted 2.6.9 everthing works fine
[12:00] <tseng> as i recall the strace wasnt very useful either
[12:00] <ogra> mxpxpod: i had to start it manually with polypaudio -nF /etc/polypaudio/default.pa to make rhythmbox happy
[12:00] <amu> mxpxpod: i do not use bluetooth 
[12:00] <Hwolf> jdub, can you help me check why gamin is using up 100% of my cpu?
[12:01] <mxpxpod> ogra: that's crap
[12:01] <ogra> mxpxpod: just a wrong default config, i guess that will be sorted soon...
[12:02] <mxpxpod> I hope
[12:02] <ogra> mxpxpod: it only affected RB here