[12:02] <ogra> mxpxpod: ad the login/logout sounds
[12:02] <ogra> s/ad/and
[12:03] <mxpxpod> amu: could you email me the patch you use and the config as well?
[12:03] <mxpxpod> ogra: hmm
[12:03] <mxpxpod> ogra: so, g-s-d needs to start polypaudio instead of esd
[12:03] <amu> mxpxpod: for 2.6.9, sure
[12:03] <mxpxpod> amu: yeah
[12:04] <tseng> ogra: seems to work here
[12:04] <tseng> (rb polyp)
[12:04] <ogra> mxpxpod: thats already done by default...
[12:04] <mxpxpod> tseng: is esd still running?
[12:04] <tseng> i ran esd, set gstreamer to esound, and ran rb
[12:04] <tseng> no, i dont run esd normally
[12:04] <dholbach> re
[12:05] <ogra> tseng: how can esd be there if ppaudio conflicts with it ?
[12:05] <tseng> ogra: um.. paudio provides an esd
[12:05] <tseng> polypaudio: /usr/bin/esd
[12:06] <jdub> esd just runs polypaudio
[12:06] <ogra> tseng: ah, well...i saw polypaudio in my processlist...
[12:06] <tseng> jdub: right, but it tricks gnome into running it in lieu of esound
[12:06] <jdub> seb128: xchat plays sounds correctly with esound-clients installed?!
[12:06] <seb128> jdub: here it does
[12:06] <jdub> tseng: that's the idea, yeah :)
[12:06] <jdub> seb128: that is complete bong
[12:06] <jdub> that is so much complete bong
[12:06] <seb128> it call esdplay
[12:07] <seb128> that's the default command in the properties
[12:07] <jdub> xchat isn't exactly a bastion of sanity
[12:07] <seb128> right
[12:07] <seb128> gnomechat rulez ? :)
[12:07] <jdub> but that is so much crack and bong and wack
[12:07] <jdub> seb128: perhaps we should install polypaudio-clients and switch it to use paplay by default :)
[12:07] <seb128> that's bong too :p
[12:08] <ogra> but more consistent :)
[12:08] <seb128> right
[12:08] <jdub> seb128: that's forced bong
[12:08] <seb128> yeah
[12:08] <dredg> xchat? sounds? sweet zombie jesus.
[12:08] <jdub> xchat makes us use the bong
[12:08] <sivang> jdub: are you using xchat at the momnet?
[12:09] <seb128> jdub: BTW what sort of debug output would you need for gamin ? Since it seems to be broken for everybody expected out
[12:09] <seb128> jdub: I've booted with noinotify for the moment, works fine now :)
[12:09] <jdub> so
[12:09] <jdub> uh
[12:09] <mxpxpod> strange... polypaudio dies for me
[12:10] <jdub> i guess everyone's heard about hula by now
[12:10] <seb128> he he
[12:10] <jdub> sivang: man, i don't use xchat
[12:10] <seb128> a guy already mailed ubuntu-devel list about it
[12:10] <jdub> seb128: so new inotify is elb0rk, or gamin is b0rking it?
[12:10] <seb128> men, ubuntu-devel turn beeing a bug list atm
[12:11] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping
[12:11] <seb128> jdub: dunno what is broken, but monitoring of a single file doesn't work whatever I do (and that's the same for Vincent and random bugzilla submitters)
[12:11] <mdz> haggai: ping
[12:12] <mdz> haggai: (oo.o2 FTBFS)
[12:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: (UTF8MigrationTool)
[12:12] <seb128> jdub: with dnotify I can clear the recent documents, add a gtk bookmark
[12:12] <seb128> jdub: and according to pitti the device pop correctly on the desktop when he boots with noinotify
[12:12] <seb128> s/device/devices
[12:12] <jdub> seb128: reckon we should disable inotify support in gamin again? :)
[12:13] <tseng> jdub: =/
[12:13] <seb128> that's my opinion
[12:13] <sjoerd> seb128, jdub: in debian gamin seems to stop doing it's stuff after a while too.. where there is certainly no inotify
[12:14] <seb128> sjoerd: saying that we should roll back to fam ? :p
[12:14] <sjoerd> seb128: no we should fix gamin :)
[12:14] <jdub> ok, i'm going to upload a --disable-inotify build
[12:14] <seb128> jdub: any hint to figure if that's an inotify or gamin issue ?
[12:15] <jdub> the freezing computer stuff is inotify ;-)
[12:15] <seb128> jdub: you are running a standard hoary kernel ?
[12:15] <jdub> the monitoring one file stuff is probably gamin
[12:15] <mxpxpod> jdub: what freezing computer stuff?
[12:15] <sjoerd> although gamin 0.0.23 has some deadlock fix which isn't in debian ;)
[12:15] <seb128> (just trying to figure why "clear recent documents" works for you)
[12:15] <jdub> seb128: yes, though haven't rebooted since last update
[12:15] <sivang> jdub: :)
[12:17] <seb128> jdub: what do we win with the inotify backend ? Just trying to figure if we should rather try to get this fixed, or if switching to dnotify is alright
[12:18] <sivang> pitti: regarding #6092, I want to have some message when someone tries to modify a user and see he cannot change the uid, what do you think would be a good thing to say "Changing UID is not allowed when modifying an existing user" ? (this would be a label, not a window or a pop up of some sort)
[12:18] <jdub> seb128: you can unmount devices that are being monitored
[12:18] <seb128> and you can freeze your kernel :p
[12:18] <zul> jdub: my bad about the inotify patch
[12:19] <ogra> sivang: why is it possible at all to change the uid ? what is the usecase for that ?
[12:19] <tseng> zul: meh, you arent the first guy to break it!
[12:19] <sivang> ogra: read the bugtrail, it's and old discussion already :)
[12:19] <zul> tseng: still my bad
[12:20] <dredg> seb128: ah, the freeze is inotify and not flaky usb-storage? :)
[12:20] <mxpxpod> jdub: could that be part of my problem when waking up my ibook? the inotify stuff?
[12:20] <jdub> zul: ;)
[12:20] <jdub> mxpxpod: doubt it
[12:20] <zul> if you upgraded to -17 today maybe..
[12:20] <mxpxpod> jdub: hmm
[12:23] <mxpxpod> and why is ubuntu-desktop on powerpc still dependant on apmd
[12:23] <thom> because it's an extremely low priority problem, if indeed it's a problem at all
[12:23] <Kamion> because we need to make that seed arch-specific; doing now
[12:23] <Kamion> um, at least I assume it needs to be arch-specific
[12:23] <Kamion> thom?
[12:24] <thom> Kamion: idunno
[12:24] <thom> certainly mjg59 was saying that not all ppc stuff uses pmu
[12:24] <thom> so it's not outside the realms of possibility it's needed on some ppc stuff
[12:24] <Kamion> mm, we don't really support non-Macs yet though
[12:24] <thom> true enough
[12:24] <thom> guess we can just reseed if and when
[12:25] <Kamion> mxpxpod: does apmd break stuff for you?
[12:25] <mxpxpod> Kamion: I'm not sure
[12:25] <mxpxpod> I just don't think it's needed
[12:25] <robtaylor> hmm, can anyone think of a good reason my PRO/Wireless 2100 doesnt work under hoary atm?
[12:25] <thom> robtaylor: you have any logs, owt in dmesg?
[12:25] <Kamion> mxpxpod: well, sounds like it is needed on some powerpc hardware, just not Macs
[12:25] <thom> certainly as of yesterday's kernel mine does
[12:26] <Kamion> I suppose we could have d-i install it depending on the hardware, though that kind of seems like crack
[12:26] <robtaylor> thom: hmm, just upgraded and rebooted.. i'll check my dmesg
[12:26] <jdub>    * debian/patches/02_menuspeed.patch:
[12:26] <jdub>      - patch to speed up the menu opening (Hoary: #5643).
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: !!!
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: you fixed gtk boog!
[12:26] <sivang> seb128: coool
[12:27] <ogra> jdub: what about gksudo ? will it stay this ugly and undecorated ?
[12:27] <seb128> in fact that's an upstream patch with this comment:
[12:27] <robtaylor> thom: hmm ,nothing useful, i get "ipw2100: Detected Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Connection"
[12:27] <seb128> "With this patch, please pay attention to submenus. Are they slow to appear or not?"
[12:27] <jdub> ogra: what kind of ugly?
[12:27] <seb128> so feedbacks are welcome :)
[12:27] <jdub> seb128: :)
[12:28] <daniels> seb128: one down, four thousand to go
[12:28] <robtaylor> thom: kernel is 2.6.10-3-386
[12:28] <Kamion> jdub,seb128: what's up with the top panel launcher icons being missing on a default install?
[12:28] <thom> robtaylor: just upgrading to todays kernel and will try
[12:28] <robtaylor> thom: cool, thanks :)
[12:29] <ogra> jdub: if i got a window with lots of gray areas open, i normally miss it popping up for example...because of the missing borders it just sinks visually into the app... quite annoying and a usability bug i think
[12:29] <seb128> Kamion: is that a new bug ?
[12:29] <sivang> seb128: my system has gone strangely faster, including menus :)
[12:29] <jdub> ogra: ah
[12:29] <zul> thom: heh we didnt touch wireless
[12:29] <Kamion> seb128: I think it's relatively recent, last week or two?
[12:29] <jdub> seb128: ogra's bug, related to the crazy effect patch ^
[12:30] <seb128> jdub: I know, I've noticed it, but I'm not sure on what should be done exactly, issue beeing worked :)
[12:30] <mxpxpod> ogra: is there a way to decorate a window w/o the titlebar, but just the border?
[12:30] <ogra> mxpxpod: i dont think so... 
[12:30] <tritium> jdub, mdz have either of you seen this yet: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6582 ?
[12:31] <mdz> tritium: that bug is less than a day old, please be patient
[12:31] <ogra> mxpxpod: you will always have at least a close button and titlebar, i dont know of any way to avoid that....
[12:31] <mxpxpod> heh
[12:31] <seb128> Kamion: k, I'll look on that tomorrow
[12:31] <mxpxpod> later guys
[12:31] <Kamion> seb128: thanks
[12:32] <Kamion> I wasn't sure if it was a deliberate change or not
[12:32] <seb128> no, but default launcher were using the old applications:/// stuff, and they have changed link to a real filename in 2.9.91
[12:32] <tritium> mdz, sorry, my intention was not to pester
[12:32] <seb128> perhaps the links are not correct somewhere, I'll check
[12:33] <Kamion> ok
[12:34] <robtaylor> thom: thx!
[12:36] <ogra> sivang: i read the whole bug, but i still dont see any use case ....
[12:36] <mjg59> thom: I know of no PPC hardware that uses apm natively
[12:36] <mjg59> But pmu can emulate apm
[12:37] <thom> robtaylor: new kernel seems fine
[12:38] <thom> i have ipw2100 loe
[12:38] <thom> love
[12:38] <thom> mjg59: cool
[12:38] <robtaylor> thom: hmmm, oddness
[12:38] <zul> brb kernel rebbot
[12:38] <sivang> ogra: well, there is not really one currently, that's why I am blocking this option - however I do think the user deserves to have a msg of some sort as pitti noted it's rather confusing having a spin button that doesn't respond.
[12:38] <Kamion> mjg59: so should we get rid of apmd from the powerpc desktop?
[12:39] <mjg59> Kamion: If it's not being used on pmac, then yes
[12:39] <Kamion> I guess there might be some programs that rely on the apm interface, or something
[12:39] <mjg59> But I don't know if all power management stuff is done through pmud, or whether apmd is calling some necessary scripts
[12:39] <mjg59> /dev/apm should still exist even if apmd isn't there
[12:40] <ogra> sivang: i meant its rather confusing to have a optin there at all... why not just show a label with the uid, this makes it very clear you cant change it
[12:41] <sivang> ogra: changing this would be too intrusive as the dialog is used both for new and existing users, plus could cause trouble when interface files change upstream.
[12:42] <ogra> sivang: ah, ok, i didnt know about the dialog recycling there...then i'll shut up ;)
[12:42] <thom> i'm hesitant to remove apmd from ppc for hoary, tbh
[12:42] <thom> i think this is way past the point to do it
[12:43] <sivang> ogra: ;-) I appriciate your remarks 
[12:45] <ogra> sivang: but if they are based on wrong knowledge i doubt they are usefull, heh
[12:45] <Hwolf> seb128: If the desktop menu is renamed to system, will applications > system tools move there too? Seems rather logical to bundle it all
[12:45] <seb128> Hwolf: dunno, ask jdub
[12:45] <seb128> Hwolf: not my idea
[12:46] <seb128> but I don't think so
[12:53] <Hwolf> seb128: pity, this seems illogical.
[12:55] <tseng> wow at hula "first post" on -devel
[12:56] <usual> hey seb128 did they do anything exciting in gstreamer for dvd playback?
[12:56] <jdub> Hwolf: the name of the system tools menu is illogical, not its placement
[12:56] <usual> hi jdub 
[12:57] <Hwolf> jdub: I feel the entire array of many different small tools to administer the system is confusing. I'd rather see something more osx/winxp like, but I'll shut up about it 
[12:58] <magnon> how is osx/winxp any different?
[12:58] <magnon> they also have small tools
[12:58] <magnon> the difference is that they put the index in an iconed window
[12:58] <Hwolf> magnon: It somehow feels better to bundle it all together that way. 
[12:58] <seb128> usual: dunno, dvd playing seems to work fine here
[12:58] <usual> seb128, slows my whole x session down :(
[12:59] <seb128> xorg issue I guess
[12:59] <seb128> whatever an app do that should not happen
[12:59] <daniels> ez gtk boog
[12:59] <seb128> ah ah
[12:59] <seb128> you wish :p
[12:59] <daniels> and of course it should happen
[12:59] <Hwolf> daniels: is that lingo i haven't heard of, or just english? 
[01:00] <daniels> if you're doing colourspace conversion in realtime, your entire cpu will slow down, and take every app with it
[01:00] <daniels> and if you're slamming a hojillion frames into the x server per second (given that the rgb->rgb delta is huge compared to yuv->yuv), your server will slow down also :P
[01:00] <daniels> Hwolf: 'is gtk bug'
[01:01] <usual> I still have issues with X crashing randomly through nautilus use
[01:01] <daniels> the issue is probably tha tyou're using xlib directly, and you should be feeding the yuv stream straight into xv
[01:01] <daniels> usual: cool, what sort of card?
[01:01] <Hwolf> daniels: thanks. I take it gtk is a buggy bitch then?
[01:01] <usual> daniels, Nvidia Geforce4
[01:02] <usual> nvidia drivers
[01:02] <daniels> usual: ok, bug in the nvidia drivers
[01:02] <daniels> Hwolf: yeah, it keeps causing all these things that people think are x bugs
[01:03] <usual> daniels, ok, but I find that hard to believe, so many people use the binary nvidia drivers in many dists and I havn't heard anyone related to my issue
[01:03] <usual> not doubting it, but curious
[01:03] <daniels> usual: conversely, I haven't heard of random Nautilus usage crashing X outside of nVidia, and certainly haven't seen it
[01:03] <Hwolf> daniels: that raises the question why such an essential lib is full of bugs? :-)
[01:03] <daniels> if you can reproduce it with nv, then I'm interested; else I just can't debug it or work out where it is
[01:04] <daniels> Hwolf: i don't know, ask seb128
[01:04] <usual> daniels, yeah, it was fine until a little bit ago when I first mentioned it to you, maybe something in hoary changing?
[01:05] <seb128> Hwolf: it would be funny without that :p
[01:05] <daniels> usual: dunno, x hasn't changed in a while now
[01:06] <usual> daniels, kernel has changed alot
[01:06] <usual> along with the binary nvidia drivers
[01:06] <daniels> er, the binary nvidia drivers haven't changed in months
[01:06] <daniels> when they released 1.0.6629, at which point we had 2.6.8.1
[01:07] <daniels> the only thing that's changed since then is patches from nvidia to make it compile on new kernels
[01:10] <jdub> Hwolf: the list of stuff in system tools is crap for various reasons; we'll fix most of it for hoary
[01:11] <daniels> jdub: would it be possible to get nvidia-glx in ship, if it's not already?
[01:11] <Hwolf> jdub, ok
[01:11] <seb128> jdub: oh, speaking about menu entries
[01:12] <seb128> jdub: is that ok to move the screen resolution stuff to preferences rather than administration ?
[01:13] <seb128> jdub: apparently we moved it the other way for warty, dunno why (or perhaps that's a side effect of the new menus, but that's a patch)
[01:13] <jdub> daniels: i don't think we want to do that, do we?
[01:14] <daniels> jdub: we sure do
[01:14] <jdub> seb128: we chose to move it to system configuration in warty
[01:15] <jdub> daniels: i'd be happier if this were brought up on u-d or TB meeting
[01:15] <seb128> jdub: any rational ? http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6545 
[01:15] <daniels> jdub: yeah, unfortunately I couldn't manage to drag myself up for TB
[01:15] <jdub> seb128: 'rationale' -> i am usually rational ;)
[01:16] <seb128> ah ah
[01:16] <thom> jdub: you ARE?!
[01:16] <daniels> jdub: except when you have NO PANTS
[01:16] <dholbach> jdub: at what time of the day? :-)
[01:17] <Hwolf> poor jdub
[01:19] <jdub> seb128: commented
[01:19] <ogra> jdub: when are you 'usual' ?
[01:19] <seb128> k
[01:19] <seb128> thanks jdub :)
[01:19] <usual> ogra, hey now
[01:20] <ogra> usual: heh
[01:20] <seb128> jdub: I see now, indeed you can be rational :)
[01:21] <thom> rational all the way to the W
[01:21] <thom> what is that W, jeffyweffy?
[01:21] <Hwolf> seb128, is there anything in gnome-panel like a seperator? something to keep 2 launchers apart. 
[01:22] <seb128> Hwolf: I don't get the question. You can to add a separator to a menu ? I think you need to change the code for that atm
[01:23] <ogra> dholbach: heh, thanks...
[01:23] <thom> seb128: he wants to seperate two icons on the panel itself
[01:23] <thom> ie, the evolution launcher and the firefox launcher
[01:23] <thom> i think
[01:24] <seb128> oh
[01:24] <seb128> I don't think so
[01:24] <Hwolf> thom: yup. atm I just put them a little bit apart, but that isn't really sexy. 
[01:27] <jdub> HiddenWolf: eugenia has a crackrock applet for doing that
[01:28] <HiddenWolf> jdub: can you say that again in english?
[01:29] <jdub> that was english
[01:29] <seb128> jdub: dude, start speaking correctly now :p
[01:29] <HiddenWolf> jdub, have pity on me
[01:29] <jdub> seb128: i can't speak the language of diplomacy ;)
[01:30] <seb128> :p
[01:30] <thom> jdub: i think you should start speaking latin
[01:30] <thom> and give me back my CURSORS
[01:31] <seb128> speaking about CURSOR thom :)
[01:31] <thom> mouse cursors
[01:31] <seb128> firefox cursor ?
[01:31] <thom> piss off with your crackpot epiphany whining :-)
[01:31] <seb128> rooohhhhhh
[01:31] <jdub> i would like to use my browser for text entry again :)
[01:31] <seb128> bad thom 
[01:31] <thom> my browser works fine for text entry
[01:31] <jdub> see my bug?
[01:31] <thom> (in other news, i'll be turning off pango tomorrow)
[01:32] <seb128> jdub: nobody reads your bugs dude
[01:32] <jdub> aha :)
[01:32] <sivang> heheh
[01:32] <thom> jdub: which one of the many i've been ignoring?
[01:32] <jdub> i refuse to write bugs in french
[01:32] <thom> ;-)
[01:32] <seb128> and that's why we don't read them
[01:32] <thom> oh, wait
[01:32] <seb128> :p
[01:32] <thom> it's bugs from elmo i ignore
[01:32] <jdub> oh man, hula is a whole sticky stack that sucks in smtp, imap, etc., etc.
[01:33] <thom> yup
[01:33] <thom> it's sticky sack o' crack
[01:33] <tseng> jdub: it says you can easily use your own mta
[01:33] <thom> i only want it for caldav love
[01:33] <jdub> I HATE PLONE
[01:33] <ogra> hula looks really cool
[01:33] <jdub> look at planet ubuntu
[01:33] <jdub> stupid, stupid plone
[01:34] <sivang> jdub: slow, hw consuming?
[01:34] <ogra> jdub: yay, nice one :)
[01:34] <jdub> tseng: you can use your own mta with exchange, too ;)
[01:34] <thom> yes, all that in spades
[01:34] <mjg59> YAY PLONE
[01:34] <tseng> jdub: hula is surely less crack than exchange
[01:35] <tseng> jdub: im excited about the idea.
[01:35] <jdub> sure, i'm excited
[01:35] <thom> GO PLONE IYB
[01:35] <jdub> but when you have everything stickily integrated
[01:35] <jdub> it gets icky, fast
[01:35] <tseng> whatever kills exchange, dude
[01:35] <jdub> no
[01:35] <jdub> the ends do not justify the means
[01:36] <jdub> look at it this way
[01:36] <mjg59> jdub: campd says they're happy to accept patches which make stuff less static
[01:36] <jdub> in hula, the following objects are no longer as they were:
[01:36] <jdub> - users
[01:36] <jdub> - mailboxes
[01:36] <jdub> - imap server
[01:36] <jdub> - smtp server
[01:36] <jdub> etc.
[01:36] <tseng> smtp can be worked around, and using /etc/passwd is on the shortlist
[01:36] <jdub> there's going to be all kinds of adaptering going on to use normal unix stack stuff
[01:37] <jdub> tseng: you said the right two words -> "worked around"
[01:37] <mjg59> It's a piece of Novell software. The fact that it runs on Linux at all is a miracle.
[01:37] <jdub> i'm not saying this is bad
[01:37] <mjg59> It's going to take it a while to make it a happy community member, though.
[01:37] <jdub> but i am pointing out the obvious suboptimal ickiness
[01:38] <tseng> i think the novell-ness will wear off with some community scrutiny
[01:38] <ogra> jdub: added it to UniverseCandidates
[01:38] <thom> it needs to play with apache also
[01:38] <jdub> thom: i'm thinking... modmodweb :)
[01:38] <thom> in fact, apache may become the best place for it to be at the community level
[01:38] <thom> mod_hula :P
[01:38] <mjg59> It needs a fucking syncml server
[01:38] <jdub> thom: asf goon!
[01:38] <jdub> mjg59: that'd be nice
[01:39] <mjg59> That way we can sync with it nicely with existing code
[01:39] <jdub> ogra: (i kinda think hula would *not* be a good MOTU target, but anyway...)
[01:39] <mjg59> Currently, the only free syncml server is in PHP (and not very spec compliant)
[01:39] <thom> jdub: fsf mafioso
[01:39] <daniels> well, hula would actually fit nicely at a low level in a2
[01:39] <jdub> i am not, and have never been, a member of the fsf ;)
[01:40] <daniels> jdub: prove it by giving me free beer tonight
[01:40] <thom> jdub: only cos they lost your bribe money
[01:40] <tseng> it would doing only ldap calender/contacts and shipping mail off to postfix
[01:40] <sivang> jdub: please stop, you're killing me :-))
[01:40] <daniels> jdub: none of this free speech crap, prove you're all about the free beer
[01:40] <jdub> daniels: i will buy you one beer tonight.
[01:40] <daniels> ogra: don't encourage him ;)
[01:40] <daniels> jdub: word
[01:41] <ogra> hehe
[01:41] <thom> (i was semi serious about it being a logical member of the Apache software ecosystem)
[01:41] <daniels> thom: i think it makes sense
[01:41] <thom> i doubt the big N will buy that though
[01:41] <daniels> ... just as long as it revolves entirely around D-BUS
[01:41] <daniels> given it's bias-declaration o'clock
[01:41] <thom> dbus, smeebus. it needs to use DOORS
[01:42] <daniels> doors?
[01:42] <jdub> has anyone itped it yet?
[01:42] <daniels> thom: OMG AND THEN WE CAN MAKE IT USE DTRACE TOO
[01:42] <daniels> thom: GOOD IDEA
[01:43] <jdub> thom: man, just watching the checkout -> ha ha port to apr
[01:43] <mjg59> Joerg on openbsd-hackers was the best thing ever
[01:43] <daniels> jdub: no
[01:43] <daniels> mjg59: i heard about that
[01:43] <daniels> mjg59: do you have an account on fd.o?
[01:43] <mdz> thom: I am getting that infuriating scroll-wheel-quits-randomly problem in firefox again
[01:44] <mdz> thom: does that happen to you?
[01:44] <mjg59> daniels: I don't /think/ so
[01:44] <thom> mdz: it never stopped happening for me :(
[01:44] <jdub> mdz: yes, that happens to me
[01:44] <thom> mdz: i reported it upstream, they said "oh yes, so it does" and then buggered off
[01:44] <daniels> mjg59: oh, they created the page
[01:44] <mdz> it seemed to stop for me for some time
[01:44] <daniels> mjg59: freedrtools.fd.o
[01:44] <magnon> ich
[01:44] <sivang> never stopped happening for me also
[01:44] <magnon> imagemagick is compiled against xorg
[01:45] <thom> jdub: see, that would be rad
[01:45] <thom> cross platform for free
[01:45] <jdub> so you can run it on AIX and OSF/1
[01:45] <thom> mdz: nothing has changed recently in mouse handling stuffs
[01:46] <thom> jdub: and OS/390!
[01:46] <thom> and OS2 WARP
[01:46] <thom> IMPORTANT PLATFORMS
[01:46] <ogra> thom: no BeOS ?
[01:47] <HiddenWolf> Are there any plans to do for xfce what is being done for kde right now?
[01:47] <thom> ogra: that;s not as marginal as os2 :-) (but yes, apr supports beos)
[01:47] <ogra> HiddenWolf: talk to crimsun, he is the xfce MOTU
[01:47] <daniels> magnon: ... yes
[01:48] <jdub> HiddenWolf: i've been talking to some of the xfce guys about it
[01:48] <magnon> daniels: would be nice to have the ability to only install the console tools on a server
[01:49] <HiddenWolf> jdub: cool
[01:50] <sivang> magnon: isn't this already possible with the "custom" install target?
[01:51] <magnon> sivang: the _imagemagick_ console tools :)
[01:51] <jdub> heh, from hula build:
[01:51] <jdub> Phase I: Reading & interpreting template
[01:51] <jdub> Phase II: Checking template
[01:51] <jdub> Phase IIIa: Loading language strings
[01:51] <jdub> Phase IIIb: Loading language images
[01:51] <jdub> Phase IV: Compiling name tables
[01:51] <jdub> Phase V: Storing static template data
[01:51] <jdub> Phase VI: Compiling template files
[01:51] <sivang> magnon: didn't even know something like this existed. well, my bad agian :)
[01:51] <jdub> Phase VII: Storing static pages
[01:51] <jdub> Phase IX: Cleaning up
[01:51] <jdub> 
[01:51] <sivang> it's ratehr, high leve?
[01:51] <sivang> ;-)
[01:51] <magnon> sivang: Gallery uses it exstensively.
[01:51] <sivang> magnon: to produce server side imanges on the fly?
[01:51] <magnon> no, to make thumbnails etc.
[01:52] <sivang> like charts and etc
[01:52] <sivang> ah ok
[01:52] <sivang> sounds cool
[01:52] <dholbach> 'convert' is part of it
[01:52] <dholbach> and it rocks
[01:52] <jdub> Agent HULAIMAP.NLM has already been started in the last 300 seconds.  Waiting to load again.
[01:53] <jdub> YES!
[01:53] <jdub> YES!
[01:53] <jdub> give me that nlm loving!
[01:53] <daniels> .nlm?
[01:53] <jdub> very netware
[01:53] <magnon> care to inform me what hula is?
[01:53] <jdub> hula-project.org
[01:53] <jdub> you've been in #g-h dude
[01:54] <daniels> not since fridayish
[01:54] <daniels> oh, him
[01:54] <thom> .NLM RUN AWAY
[01:54] <thom> screaming!
[01:54] <magnon> yeah, I've seen hula tal
[01:54] <ogra> magnon: http://www.hula-project.org/
[01:54] <magnon> k
[01:54] <dholbach> Netware Loadable Module :-)
[01:54] <magnon> never seen what it is though
[01:54] <magnon> jdub: oh! nice!
[01:54] <thom> i are reminded heavily of my first job
[01:54] <dredg> hmm, me too
[01:55] <magnon> jdub: I'll have to look at that. Some other time, but still. That looks darn nice.
[01:55] <magnon> eventually will look nice
[01:56] <magnon> caldav will mean that it works with the ogo connector then
[02:01] <whiprush> DUDES. We did good today, got about 50 ubuntu CDs out to the worthy today.
[02:01] <whiprush> mako is bringing in a resupply.
[02:02] <thom> night dudes
[02:02] <sivang> night thom 
[02:03] <jdub> whiprush: rockin'!
[02:07] <magnon> is hula, uhm, stable enough?
[02:08] <magnon> well, if I'm willing to install it on my server to try it, the demands on stability aren't that high anyway :>
[02:08] <jdub> i'd recommend a test box to start with
[02:09] <magnon> seems like a thing that'd update a lot, I'd like it to work after each update I do
[02:11] <mdz> jdub: didn't we decide to fix gdm so that it beeps instead of playing the annoying sound?
[02:12] <jdub> mdz: i thought we decided to remove it completely?
[02:12] <mdz> jdub: or that
[02:12] <jdub> :)
[02:12] <mdz> jdub: either way, please make sure that happens
[02:12] <jdub> yep
[02:18] <mdz> thom: netapplet just crashed on me during logout; was unable to get to the "inform developers" button and get a trace due to the logout process finishing
[02:19] <mdz> thom: however, it is reproducible every time
[02:19] <mdz> jdub: why is it that the login/logout sounds do not play under polypaudio?
[02:21] <jdub> mdz: dunno, been investigating that
[02:23] <ogra> jdub: running it manually like: polypaudio -nF /etc/polypaudio/default.pa makes it work here
[02:23] <jdub> yeah, saw someone mention that before
[02:23] <jdub> total crack
[02:23] <ogra> jdub: it also solves the rhythmbox problem
[02:23] <jdub> rhythmbox problem?
[02:24] <ogra> jdub: cant connect device or something.... i had it here and its also mentioned on the list
[02:25] <jdub> haven't had that myself, gstreamer configured to use esd works fine
[02:25] <jdub> mdz: i think it could be delayed loading of the alsa modules
[02:25] <mdz> jdub: that might explain startup, but shutdown?
[02:25] <ogra> jdub: i never touched the gstreamer config here....and as i said, the above command solved both problems
[02:26] <jdub> mdz: if they're unloaded at shutdown...
[02:26] <thom> mdz: yes, know about that one
[02:26] <azeem> ogra: woot, thanks
[02:26] <jdub> ogra: had you restarted your session?
[02:26] <ogra> jdub: yup
[02:26] <ogra> jdub: even the system since i had a kernel upgrade
[02:28] <Kamion> night all
[02:28] <ogra> night
[02:28] <daniels> Kamion: 'nacht
[02:28] <sivang> 'nacht ogra 
[02:29] <ogra> daniels: wow without any accent.... perfect german ;)
[02:29] <daniels> heh :)
[02:29] <ogra> sivang: i was saying it to Kamion ;)
[02:32] <jdub> hrm, lots of nice startup failures
[02:32] <sivang> ogra: hmm, then maybe I should say good night to myself :)
[02:34] <WW> Does anyone know what the story is with the recent kernel upgrade and linux-restricted-modules?
[02:36] <mdz> WW: there is no story as far as I am aware
[02:40] <sivang> damn this not willing to unpatch libtool..>:-<
[02:43] <WW> mdz: Hmm...  When I try to upgrade in Synaptic, it refused to install linux-restricted-modules-2.6-686 and linux-restricted-modules-2.6-686-smp. I currently have linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-4-686 and linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-686-smp installed.
[02:43] <WW> When I tried to reboot after the upgrade, gdm would not start.
[02:44] <WW> ..."no screens"
[02:46] <WW> See also: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=15563
[02:46] <WW> ...and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=15541
[02:47] <tseng> WW: see #ubuntu with that nature of stuff
[02:47] <ogra> WW: sad that people are discussing it, agree that its a bug, but nobody seems to have filed it....
[02:48] <WW> tseng: Yes, I know this isn't exactly the right place... on the other hand, it appears to be broken kernel upgrade.  That's pretty serious stuff, and I haven't heard about any forthcoming fixes.  mdz apparently didn't even know about it.
[02:49] <tseng> oh man, if mdz doesnt know it must be end of the world!
[02:49] <tseng> heh.
[02:49] <WW> :)
[02:50] <jdub> mdz: ahr, esd sample caching problems.
[02:50] <WW> Sorry, one more post: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6617
[02:51] <daniels> l-r-m needs an update
[02:54] <mdz> it was updated
[02:54] <mdz> but it failed to build
[02:54] <mdz> the headers weren't available yet
[02:54] <daniels> hooray!
[02:54] <mdz> it should only need a retry
[02:55] <daniels> ah
[02:55] <mdz> but I don't know of anyone who can do that besides lamont and elmo
[02:55] <mdz> lamont is not here today, and elmo is likely asleep
[02:58] <jdub> oh man
[02:58] <jdub> no esd sample caching problems
[02:59] <jdub> it has a problem with the file size it seems (affects native and esd interfaces)
[02:59] <sivang> hmm, what's the adm group for? (related to raid stuff?)
[03:02] <maswan> daniels: sorry for bothering you in here, but I'm curious, does the x300 se pcie card work well with current x, or is it work in progress? I just saw that you got one, not how it turned out from your blog entry (pretty much what what's easily found by google too).
[03:03] <daniels> maswan: 2d works out of the box, never tried fglrx
[03:03] <maswan> daniels: ah, great. thinking of getting a new box, and these pcie mbs seem neat. :)
[03:06] <daniels> well, i care about 3d, just not with this card
[03:06] <daniels> this card was just the cheapest way to get 1600x1200, plus DVI and dual-head
[03:07] <maswan> Well, I might eventually some day have need of 3d, but that day...
[03:08] <daniels> maswan, halflife2.  halflife2, maswan.
[03:08] <maswan> Isn't that one of those first person thingies? I've never gotten along with those.
[03:11] <mjg59> daniels: Are you going to play it on a nasty closed-source OS?
[03:13] <daniels> mjg59: as opposed to a nasty closed-source hostile fork of an emulation of a nasty-closed-source OS?  probably, yeah.
[03:13] <tseng> daniels: good one.
[03:14] <jba> hehe
[03:14] <jba> got him yes, goooonee!!!
[03:15] <daniels> 'right off the mea ... er, right off the vegetable of the bat'
[03:15] <jba> what's wrong with the meat of the bat?
[03:15] <jba> you gotta eat lamb I tell you !!!!
[03:17] <mjg59> WW: You should see a typical conversaion in debian-devel...
[03:18] <daniels> jba: not me, I've got a tongue piercing ;)
[03:18] <mjg59> (Actuallym you really shouldn't)
[03:18] <zul> mjg59, gentoo-dev is worse :) well not really
[03:18] <jba> daniels, no piercings here. so it's all meat for me
[03:19] <jba> what do you think about 20-20's ?
[03:19] <daniels> and this is where I fail to understand, but I suspect we're desperately off-topic anyway
[03:19] <jba> new 20 over matches
[03:20] <jba> shorter one dayers, as far as I'm concerned the shorter a game of cricket is, the better :)
[03:21] <daniels> oh, twenty20
[03:22] <mjg59> daniels: So, any cool stuff come out of xdevconf?
[03:23] <daniels> mjg59: tentative but awesome moves on the release manager front (i'm standing aside), hopefully getting shared administration for gnome/kde/fd.o, possibly combining all the translation efforts from gnome and kde under fd.o
[03:23] <daniels> mjg59: a definite move towards modularisation and a plan on how to get there; process for x11r7 beginning
[03:23] <daniels> i'm sure there was other stuff, but i've forgotten
[03:24] <mjg59> Rocking
[03:24] <mjg59> Any discussion on the shift to mesa-based rendering?
[03:24] <mjg59> (Or if that's even been decided as the way forward now)
[03:24] <daniels> it's basically been deferred until mesa-solo is finished, which is chugging along nicely
[03:25] <daniels> mesa has been undergoing some serious renovations lately
[03:25] <mjg59> Cool
[03:25] <dholbach> guys... i'm off to bed
[03:25] <dholbach> sleep tight everyone
[03:25] <mjg59> What's the situation in terms of hardware that doesn't have a 3D engine?
[03:26] <daniels> dholbach: g'night
[03:26] <dholbach> bye daniels
[03:26] <daniels> mjg59: so the way forward in terms of xgl is undecided; either you could use mesa's software renderer, or have xgl as just another output driver, so you can still use standard 2d acceleration
[03:27] <daniels> mjg59: whether xgl will be It or not is uncertain (right now, kdrive isn't near usable, and probably will never be), but yeah, several have stated that we cannot and will not deprecate support for non-3D cards
[03:29] <mjg59> Is there any way to provide 2D acceleration through Mesa?
[03:30] <mjg59> Hmm. I guess it's difficult to expose stuff like Xvideo through that.
[03:31] <daniels> well, obviously there's mesa's software renderer, but i don't know how effectively you can accelerate it when you need to be converting 3d primitives into 2d primitives
[03:31] <mjg59> Mm. It's a bit of an awkward bugger.
[03:31] <daniels> aye
[03:32] <daniels> so some of us are wondering if we wouldn't be better off writing a drivers/gl for the current xorg infrastructure
[03:32] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:32] <mjg59> Then default to that on hardware that has decent Mesa support?
[03:32] <daniels> or something, yeah
[03:33] <dholbach> *wave*
[03:33] <daniels> no-one's really clear at the moment, because we have staggeringly more important things to do (modulaisation), and the gl stuff is blocking on mesa-solo
[03:33] <mjg59> My only concern with the mesa-solo stuff is that Jon Smirl seems convinced that it's possible to POST all video hardware
[03:33] <ogra> night dholbach
[03:33] <daniels> bleh.  modularisation.  m12n.
[03:33] <daniels> mjg59: it's ok, there are some incredibly talented (and sane) people on mesa as well
[03:33] <daniels> mjg59: anholt and ajax understand the realities of modern-day hardware, and they've been doing a *lot* of good things
[03:34] <daniels> mjg59: jon's great, but he exists in a world where everyone has these amazing flawless video cards that do stupid fast 3D, and there are no BIOS flaws ever
[03:34] <daniels> so he does a lot of good things, but needs a good grounding in reality every now and then
[03:34] <mjg59> Haha
[03:36] <mjg59> Xgl is very, very cool though
[03:37] <sladen> and so much cooler than Cairo
[03:39] <jdub> ahr, no seb
[03:39] <jdub> Unable to open desktop file /usr/share/mozilla-firefox.desktop for panel launcher: Error reading file '/usr/share/mozilla-firefox.desktop': File not found
[03:39] <jdub> Unable to open desktop file /usr/share/evolution-2.2.desktop for panel launcher: Error reading file '/usr/share/evolution-2.2.desktop': File not found
[03:39] <jdub> Unable to open desktop file @DATADIR/yelp.desktop for panel launcher: Error reading file '@DATADIR/yelp.desktop': Invalid URI
[03:39] <jdub> 
[03:39] <jdub> sladen: it's completely different to cairo, and not cooler
[03:40] <jdub> mdz: was it you that mentioned the panel icons missing?
[03:42] <daniels> cairo is rad also
[03:44] <jdub> heh
[03:44] <jdub> um
[03:44] <jdub> daniels: is d-bus 0.23.1 love?
[03:45] <daniels> 0.23.1?
[03:45] <daniels> i think i may have missed something
[03:45] <jdub> perhaps beagle is asking for > d-bus 0.23 ;)
[03:46] <daniels> jdub: ahr, yeah, it is love; the update should be fairly trivial if you want  to do it
[03:47] <jdub> daniels: including dbus-cil?
[03:48] <daniels> jdub: apt-get source dbus-mono, hand-apply all the changes to the *.cs files
[03:48] <daniels> i can probably do it tonight, since i'll be away from my ghetto development system
[03:49] <jdub> not a massive priority at all
[03:49] <jdub> unless there are fixes in it we need
[03:49] <jdub> just noticed new beagle needs it
[03:49] <daniels> 'kay
[03:49] <daniels> well, looking at it, it seems that 0.23 is broken to shit
[03:50] <daniels> i might prepare new packages on the plane
[03:50] <daniels> otoh, i might not :)
[03:52] <jdub> gar
[03:52] <zul> heh
[03:52] <jdub> man, this polypaudio sample stuff is cheesing me off
[03:54] <helix> gah, I caught usual's message again
[03:54] <mjg59> helix: Caught?
[03:54] <Clint> she's psychic
[03:54] <helix> mjg59: every time I look in this channel I seem to see that stupid quit message
[03:54] <mjg59> Haha
[03:54] <mjg59> Your life is miserable
[03:55] <helix> talk to me about ACPI, make it WORSE
[03:56] <helix> jba: mjg59 can be bribed
[03:56] <jdub> argh
[03:57] <sivang> shutting down, night all
[03:57] <mjg59> helix: So, have I told you what ACPI stands for?
[03:57] <jba> wast
[03:57] <helix> does this mean I get to make an educated guess?
[03:57] <sivang> helix: btw, I also see this rather bothering message, guess there is no rule yet against logout messages
[03:57] <jba> was trying to explain to my wife why acpi wasn't working untill i had support for a custom dsdt, and she just told me to s h u t up
[03:58] <helix> mjg59: argh christing puce idiocy?
[03:58] <jdub> jba: drop a compiled dsdt aml into /etc/mkinitrd/DSDT
[03:58] <helix> that's my guess about acpi
[03:58] <jba> jdub, i know dude, you already explained it to me 2 weeks ago, remember we have the smae machine
[03:59] <jba> i was just trying to exlpain that to my wife
[03:59] <jdub> oh yeah
[03:59] <jba> hehe
[03:59] <mjg59> helix: Somethng like that
[03:59] <jba> it was basially an exercise in tediosity, cause she didn't really care in the first place
[03:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: pong; but can you drop me an email rather?
[03:59] <helix> jba: why did you try to explain it then?
[04:00] <Mithrandir> hiya helix
[04:00] <helix> hey
[04:00] <mjg59> Right. Sleep.
[04:00] <jba> i don't know, I've been married for 18months now and would like for her to at least appreciate what it is about OSS that makes me want to come home from work and turn on yet another computer
[04:00] <helix> jba: acpi is not the way, trust me
[04:00] <helix> :)
[04:00] <jba> hehe
[04:01] <Mithrandir> mjg59: bah, and you're one timezone behind.
[04:01] <mjg59> helix: If you had a laptop, you'd love ACPI
[04:01] <mjg59> Mithrandir: I've a meeting in 7 hours
[04:01] <helix> mjg59: I'd love you too
[04:01] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I'm supposed to meet my supervisor in six.
[04:01] <mjg59> helix: You're far too easily bought
[04:02] <helix> mjg59: well, most people get loved for free..
[04:02] <helix> it's that you're exceptionally unworthy
[04:02] <mjg59> You're such an ACPI hater
[04:02] <jba> aint nothing wrong with being loved for money
[04:02] <Mithrandir> most people with laptops'd love mjg59 
[04:02] <mjg59> My ACPI skills get me all the women
[04:02] <Mithrandir> helix: bah, mjg59++
[04:02] <mjg59> (Possible lie)
[04:02] <helix> Mithrandir: he's misunderstanding me on purpose
[04:03] <helix> I said *explaining* ACPI to jba's wife is not the way to get her to love free software
[04:03] <daniels> mjg59: no, they do, but you just don't pay attention when they declare their interest in you
[04:03] <daniels> mjg59: that girl at the pub totally knew you were the acpi mastah
[04:03] <Mithrandir> helix: he's a man, what do you expect?
[04:03] <mjg59> daniels: Shame I never saw her
[04:03] <helix> Mithrandir: I expect for him to misunderstand me so I can emasculate him
[04:03] <mjg59> I've been back to that pub twice since then
[04:04] <mjg59> helix: Why do you wish to emasculate me?
[04:04] <helix> I thought that's what you wanted?
[04:04] <Mithrandir> daniels: I'm a bit scared of coming to .au, considering that ThongMaster has threatened to drown me in beers.  (Because I fixed evo on amd64)
[04:04] <mjg59> Since when?
[04:04] <helix> you're the masochist screwing around with ACPI, this is a perfectly logical conclusion
[04:05] <daniels> Mithrandir: 'TongMaster'
[04:05] <Mithrandir> daniels: sorry; same difference; I'm fairly drunk. :P
[04:05] <HrdwrBoB> helix: haha my fiance nods and smiles
[04:05] <HrdwrBoB> so I got to explain things
[04:05] <thully> mjg59: any progress on T42 suspend?
[04:06] <mjg59> thully: Nope
[04:06] <mjg59> There are weird kernel issues to deal with. I might have some more information after FOSDEM.
[04:06] <helix> I think the men I meet tend to explain all the wrong portions of free software to their non-tech wives and girlfriends
[04:06] <Mithrandir> helix: they should just get techie wives and gfs.
[04:06] <helix> Mithrandir: ...where?
[04:07] <mjg59> helix: Pff. My desire for ACPI to hurt me doesn't mean that I never want to be able to screw around in future
[04:07] <Mithrandir> helix: I found both my current and my previous in this place at university called "The Software Workshop".
[04:07] <helix> I don't want details, matthew
[04:07] <helix> Mithrandir: ah, ok. not all people are at university though.
[04:08] <Mithrandir> helix: they should be.  No human is complete without some university education.  IMO, at least
[04:08] <helix> Mithrandir: what if they're out of school?
[04:08] <helix> there are single people over 24 :)
[04:09] <Mithrandir> helix: never too late to be a student.  And I'm sure LUGs and such would work.  Or something.  But again, don't listen to me, I'm a bit intoxicated.
[04:09] <helix> Mithrandir: well, maybe norway is different
[04:09] <mjg59> helix: You don't want details because you'd prefer to have your own version of reality?
[04:09] <helix> Mithrandir: none of those are heavily populated with females here. and going back to school to find a wife is silly :)
[04:10] <helix> mjg59: maybe
[04:10] <Mithrandir> helix: possibly, I haven't studied elsewhere.
[04:10] <mjg59> helix: Haha
[04:10] <daniels> (wildly offtopic)
[04:10] <helix> right, back to my hole. sorry channel :)
[04:11] <jba> guys i don't know how it is every where else in the world, but here in .au not many good looking (or even any regular) women hang around engineering campuses
[04:11] <mjg59> Now, really, sleep
[04:11] <jba> infact, at UTS, where i studied, i would go so far as to say none
[04:11] <jba> the engineering faculty was all men
[04:11] <Mithrandir> jba: you're in the wrong continent.
[04:12] <jba> or the right continent, depending on how you look at it
[04:12] <jba> .au is the "ass end of the world" after all
[04:39] <jbailey> mdz: Just got back from my class.  What's up?
[04:41] <jdub> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
[04:41] <jdub> yay!
[04:43] <mdz> jdub: hah, it's obsolete before we even got around to using it
[04:45] <jdub> :-)
[04:48] <jdub> mdz: finding lots of nice sample caching related bugs
[04:50] <mdz> jdub: which apps use sample caching?
[04:51] <jdub> mdz: gnome sounds
[04:51] <jdub> mdz: this is basically the background for the startup/shutdown sound problems
[04:52] <jdub> mdz: if you play cached samples in a 1s loop, they're reliable (apart from the first few)
[04:52] <jdub> mdz: if you play them in a 5s loop, you hear nothing :)
[05:02] <jbailey> Where do we announce our security updates?  I had missed the awstats update from a couple days ago, and it was kindly pointed out to me by an end user. =(
[05:04] <mdz> jbailey: ubuntu-security-announce
[05:04] <mdz> and also UT
[05:04] <jbailey> Cool.  I had missed that list.  Thanks! =)
[05:13] <jdub> hrm
[05:13] <jdub> my desktop's clock goes out of sync pretty quickly
[05:17] <jba> bad crystal?
[05:20] <jdub> proprietary crystal, probably (stupid nvidia...)
[05:20] <jdub> ;-)
[05:32] <jdub> mdz: there?
[05:32] <mdz> jdub: yes
[05:32] <jdub> mdz: cliff's machine is stuck in dvorak
[05:33] <mdz> jdub: have him reboot it; the default layout is us
[05:33] <jdub> ok
[05:33] <mdz> I must have forgotten to change it back when I was over there last
[05:34] <mdz> next time I guess I should learn how to use the multi-layout magic in gnome
[05:35] <jbailey> mdz: Keyboard layout stuff is really easy.  You can set a keyboard sequence to reset or have an applet to click on.  I set af riends' keyboard for English/Russian last weekend.  I was really surprised.
[05:36] <mdz> jbailey: the last time I tried it, I got a different layout when using the dvorak mode of a switchable layout, than when using plain dvorak
[05:36] <jbailey> Oh nasty.
[05:36] <jbailey> "No! No!  The *other* dvorak!"
[05:37] <jdub> i have heard of some dvorak related bugs during 2.9
[05:37] <mdz> the problem is that dvorak isn't a complete layout; it's just an arrangement of the alpha/punctuation keys
[05:37] <mdz> the layout I actually have is us(pc104)+dvorak(basic)
[05:37] <mdz> but GNOME doesn't let me say that
[05:39] <jbailey> Bed time.  See y'all in 7.5 hours.
[05:41] <sulkd> hi
[05:45] <jdub> mdz: hrm, what crazy crack did you set up for cliff?
[05:46] <mdz> jdub: diversions + symlinks
[05:46] <jdub> that makes it very hard for me to understand what's going on :|
[05:46] <mdz> in hindsight I would have copied the stuff into `/.themes, ~/.icons and crap if I had known about them
[05:46] <jdub> why so complicated? all this stuff can be done in the home directory
[05:46] <mdz> if you can walk him through that easily, go for it
[05:46] <jdub> aha
[05:47] <mdz> if not, seems like a waste of time since what he has, works
[05:47] <mdz> unless he needs to add new files, I suppose
[05:47] <jdub> that's the thing
[05:47] <jdub> he'll be regularly updating stuff
[05:47] <mdz> ask him if he found the password to his router
[05:47] <mdz> I wanted to set it up so I could ssh in and fix stuff
[05:48] <jba> autolunching gthumb when connecting a digital camera to usb is a great idea
[05:48] <jba> but it doesn't leave you with a "Camera" icon on the desktop to eject
[05:48] <jdub> mdz: nup
[05:48] <jba> and if you manual umount it, you hang ubuntu completely
[05:48] <dilinger> jba: i haven't actually seen it work right yet
[05:49] <mdz> the next time I go over there I'll try to recover the password
[05:49] <jba> dilinger, works great, just have to get use to simply unplugging the cable without umounting
[05:51] <jdub> jba: i would regard the lack of icon when doing gthumb/camera stuff as a bug
[05:51] <jdub> jba: if it's not filed already, please file it
[05:51] <jba> jdub sure thing
[05:53] <mdz> the hang is just inotify sucking
[05:53] <mdz> jdub: what are the odds of inotify getting un-fucked for hoary?
[05:53] <mdz> I thought that thing was totally on track to go upstream, and it has turned out to be in terrible shape
[05:54] <jba> jdub, is that just not mounting it with a user (or something) attribute ?
[05:55] <jba> bugzilla.ubunutu.com not having valid certificate
[05:57] <jdub> mdz: relatively good, considering that rml is paying attention
[05:57] <jdub> mdz: though switching aroudn kernel maintainers has not been so good for it
[06:00] <jba> jdub, this is part of the bug: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2741
[06:01] <jdub> jba: different issue
[06:01] <jba> just realized, it was warty related so yeah, it's diff
[06:02] <jba> jdub, this is my freezing bug. I also have a olympus (micro300) https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6317
[06:03] <jba> the actual error is if you umount while gphoto is still running
[06:03] <jba> or unplug while it's still running
[06:05] <jba> wow that bug is duplicated all over the place
[06:13] <sulkd> anyone want to sneer at a patch and tell me how much it sucks right before I send a mail ?
[06:16] <fabbione> morning
[06:17] <jdub> jba: inotify prob
[06:32] <lamont> moof
[06:32] <sulkd> oh well.. I'll just mail then..
[06:34] <fabbione> night lamont
[06:34] <lamont> night fabbione - I'll probably poke you when I awake to see where 2.6.10 is at
[06:34] <fabbione> there is also a little bug, on exit the daemon should clean .esd/
[06:34] <fabbione> ops
[06:35] <fabbione> lamont: -19 is the last one i uploaded yesterday
[06:35] <lamont> ok
[06:41] <sulkd> is anyone else having problem with Gnome's input widgets lately? like when I'm in Epiphany and I'm googling for something, and then click in the input box and want to seek by pressing the right arrow and it either jumps over each word or straight to the end
[08:01] <da_bon_bon> why doesnt hoary update to OOo 1.1.4 ?
[08:01] <da_bon_bon> or better still, 2.0 ?
[08:02] <crimsun_> well, 2.0's not out yet; 1.9 is there.
[08:02] <da_bon_bon> 2.0 devel = 1.9 ?
[08:03] <crimsun_> apt-cache policy openoffice.org2
[08:04] <crimsun_> our OOo maintainer is extremely busy
[08:04] <da_bon_bon> crimsun_: thanks. u a developer too ?
[08:04] <crimsun_> not for ubuntu or canonical, no
[08:04] <da_bon_bon> ok..
[08:05] <da_bon_bon> and kernel maintainers are doing a gr8 job - updates twice a day
[08:06] <crimsun_> there were rather critical bugfixes in them
[08:06] <da_bon_bon> right - .17 hanged so often...
[08:06] <da_bon_bon> and anyway, do u use OOo 1.9 ? is it stable enough ?
[08:07] <crimsun_> I use OOo on Warty, actually
[08:07] <da_bon_bon> crimsun_: oh, no hoary ?
[08:07] <crimsun_> the few times I've used OOo on Hoary have been fine.
[08:07] <crimsun_> let's take this back to u
[08:07] <crimsun_> (#u)
[08:07] <da_bon_bon> ok.
[08:49] <Gagatan> Simira :)
[08:49] <Simira> morn :) Up already?
[08:50] <Simira> there's another. Mornin HcE.
[08:50] <HcE> Simira: =) had a little "case" with autofs upgrade
[08:50] <Simira> I noticed
[08:50] <Simira> well, have to go. Back in 30 mins.
[08:57] <dholbach> hai
[08:58] <sulkd> konnichiwa
[09:16] <dholbach> hellas mvo_!
[09:18] <mvo_> hi dholbach 
[09:18] <mvo_> morning all
[09:27] <pitti> Hi everybody
[09:28] <dholbach> hi pitti!
[09:31] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:37] <low> mornin'
[09:37] <low> Kamion: around ?
[09:44] <d3vic3> doko, ping 
[09:45] <doko> d3vic3: here
[09:53] <pitti> amu: ping
[09:57] <mvo__> slow, _so_ slow
[09:59] <Keybuk> aww, poor thing
[09:59] <mvo__> yeah, pity me :)
[10:04] <Keybuk> hmm, nah
[10:08] <sid77> hi
[10:17] <low> anyone working on isos ?
[10:18] <Keybuk> so we've changed the name of the Jeff menu again?
[10:23] <jdub> Keybuk: upstream chose a different name, so after ui freeze, we changed it to what we decided originally
[10:23] <Treenaks> The Jeff Menu?
[10:24] <Keybuk> Treenaks: the third menu, one day we're going to wake up to see "Applications  Places  Jeff"
[10:24] <Treenaks> Keybuk: ah.. *shudder*
[10:25] <Keybuk> which would actually be good, jdub will click Jeff and be able to configure his identity and preferences, switch between other logged in users, see friends online is his contact list, etc.
[10:25] <jdub> Keybuk: i've been talking to jimbob about that
[10:25] <jdub> Keybuk: not sure i'm fully behind it yet
[10:33] <Kamion> low: yo
[10:33] <Kamion> mvo_: FYI, I've removed empty Packages files from the live CD
[10:35] <mvo_> Kamion: great! thanks a lot
[10:36] <low> Kamion: ok. tested 4th iso from yesterday. improvements: i can now access to choice of partitions etc when configuring raid0/1/5
[10:36] <low> Kamion: bugs: /dev/md* are not created, modules are loaded
[10:37] <low> just dled today's iso. any idea if it has been fixed ?
[10:40] <Kamion> low: I fixed a load of that kind of stuff yesterday
[10:41] <Kamion> mdrun should now actually look in /dev/md/ properly
[10:41] <low> Kamion: ok, today's iso is burning, will test very soon
[10:41] <Kamion> and create devices there
[10:41] <low> Kamion: btw, /dev/md/ doesn't even exists
[10:42] <low> brb, testing :)
[10:43] <Kamion> low: yes, I know, I fixed that too :)
[10:43] <low> Kamion: sweet, so it /should/ work now :-)
[10:44] <low> ha, burning is finished, really off for a couple minutes now
[10:46] <svenl> hi all.
[10:47] <ajmitch> hi svenl 
[10:48] <svenl> Mmm, so who should i ask for unbreaking my wiki logon ? Either i already registered with my @debian.org address some time back and forgot the password, which could have happened, or something is fishy.
[10:49] <svenl> Didn't see any remember password thingy though.
[10:53] <low> YAY ! thx Kamion ! i've been able to create a raid0 array, raid 1 and 5. now waiting for disk partionning tool to launch. it's hard really long
[10:53] <low> s/hard/
[10:53] <Treenaks> low: that sounded like copy/paste from some spame :P
[10:53] <Treenaks> spam
[10:53] <low> lol Treenaks 
[10:56] <low> hmmm examining disks phase seems to be stuck, no hd access, 41% waiting and waiting
[11:00] <sladen> jdub: I know the difference xgl vis. Xr...
[11:04] <low> Kamion: ok i know why it's stuck. "ataX: command 0x25 timeout, stat 0x50 host_stat 0x64 " and s/0x64/0x4
[11:05] <Kamion> not my fault then :)
[11:05] <low> Kaloz: another msg is "program parted_devices is using a deprecated SCSI ioctl, please convert it to SG_IO"
[11:05] <low> Kamion: agreed, not yours :)
[11:07] <dholbach> i'm out with my dog - bbl
[11:08] <low> gah, i've been xchat completion hit again
[11:08] <low> so Kamion: another msg is "program parted_devices is using a deprecated SCSI ioctl, please convert it to SG_IO" (bis:)
[11:09] <low> least important imho (until this ioctl is really cut off sources:)
[11:12] <Kamion> just a warning, and the actual problem is somewhere deep inside parted
[11:13] <low> Kamion: i'm a bit afraid it come from libata/sata modules
[11:13] <low> it may comes
[11:14] <low> Kamion: would it be a real pain for you to build an iso with 2.6.11-rc4 ?
[11:14] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync mini-dinstall
[11:14] <low> (or too time consuming or something)
[11:15] <pitti> elmo: toolchain-source sync, please
[11:15] <Kamion> low: yes
[11:15] <Kamion> (a real pain)
[11:16] <Kamion> I'm trying to get array cd 5 out today, and I don't have 2.6.11-rcwhatever convenient in .deb and .udeb form
[11:16] <low> ok, hmmmm i'll try disabling acpi and all then, to see if that can solve the problem
[11:16] <pitti> AAARGH
[11:16] <pitti> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
[11:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: AAAAAARG indeed
[11:16] <low> oh sh*t
[11:17] <low> no more md5, no more sha1...
[11:17] <pitti> indeed, yes
[11:17] <pitti> we need a HASH
[11:17] <low> gpg keys like the ones given with linux sources ?
[11:18] <low> bbl, testing and tesing
[11:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: sha256, sha512
[11:18] <low> s/tesing/testing
[11:18] <low> hmmm i should put off my winter gloves ;)
[11:18] <low> C ya
[11:27] <low> hmmm silly question, what does the skullhead means in partitionning menu ? i've put ext2 on a raid0 volume, for /boot
[11:27] <low> Kamion: looks loke noapic nolapic solves the problem
[11:29] <low> raid1, not raid0, sorry
[11:29] <dholbach> re
[11:34] <Kamion> low: cool
[11:35] <Kamion> low: the skull means "pay attention, this partition was formatted and is being reformatted"; see the "Help on partitioning" text
[11:36] <dholbach> hai seb128
[11:36] <dholbach> seb128: would you mind, if i'd upload a just-rebuilt gdeskcal (to get python-transition further)
[11:37] <low> Kamion: ok thx
[11:38] <seb128> dholbach: not at all
[11:38] <dholbach> seb128: nice
[11:55] <pitti> Kamion: is there any reason why lesstif-dev is in the supported seed?
[11:57] <pitti> lesstif1 is a mess, and it's abandoned upstream
[11:57] <Kamion> pitti: general policy of supporting -dev and -doc of stuff we use, except that we don't actually appear to use lesstif1 otherwise
[11:57] <pitti> Kamion: we use lesstif2/lesstif2-dev for xpdf, that's okay
[11:58] <Kamion> erm, the same source package ships both lesstif-dev and lesstif2-dev
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion: but lesstif1 is vulnerable against three old CANs which aren't fixed in Debian and upstream does not support it any more
[11:58] <Kamion> I have no problem with removing it
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion: the problem is that a 2000 line patch had to be manually applied to a totally mangled source
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion: hrm, s/had/has/ (for Warty)
[11:59] <Kamion> sure, I understand
[11:59] <pitti> this is a giant job and not really appropriate for a safe security update, but somehow I need to fix that
[11:59] <pitti> but at least I'd like to put and end to this madness at Warty
[11:59] <Kamion> it probably has to stay supported in warty now that it's there
[11:59] <Kamion> but we can kill it from hoary
[12:00] <pitti> yes, that's what I'm aiming at
[12:00] <Kamion> removing
[12:00] <pitti> shall I update the seeds or are you alraedy at it?
[12:00] <Kamion> I'm doing it
[12:00] <pitti> okay, thanks
[12:01] <Kamion> committed
[12:01] <pitti> Kamion: I'd like to defer the lesstif1 upgrade a bit until Debian and we found/reviewed a proper patch?
[12:01] <pitti> so I only fix lesstif2 for now
[12:02] <Kamion> sounds reasonable; as I say, though, they're in the same source package
[12:02] <pitti> yes, I know
[12:02] <Kamion> lesstif1 has no rdepends other than lesstif-dev in warty either
[12:02] <pitti> that's the problem, we have to do a totally messy update although no app really uses it :-(
[12:14] <low> Kamion: grub doesn't boot correctly on raid1 arrays ? :(
[12:15] <low> btw, the magic trinity is noapic nolapic noacpi so everything works ok
[12:20] <Kamion> low: arse, I thought that'd been fixed. should just be a matter of editing its 'root' command though?
[12:23] <low> Kamion: ok i'll try it after lunch. hope it didn't install it on /, only /boot is raid1
[12:23] <low>  / is raid5
[12:23] <low> bbl
[12:23] <Treenaks> we need RAID5 capable grub ;)
[12:23] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: patches accepted.
[12:23] <Mithrandir> :)
[12:23] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: grrr
[12:24] <Kamion> oh, damnit, no lilo on amd64
[12:24] <Kamion> Mithrandir: does lilo fundamentally not work on amd64, or do we just not build it at the moment?
[12:24] <Mithrandir> we just don't build it
[12:24] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I need it for LVM
[12:24] <Simira> :)
[12:24] <Mithrandir> it might need a few patches to use -m32 where appropiate, but that should in the debian-amd64 patch directory.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> hiya Simira 
[12:26] <Kamion> elmo: could you PaS lilo to i386 amd64 rather than just i386, please?
[12:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: apparently not, no changes in debian-amd64
[12:29] <Mithrandir> ok, guess the maintainer has accepted the patches, then. :)
[12:29] <Kamion> no -m32 in the source either though
[12:30] <Kamion> it's possible nobody cared
[12:30] <Mithrandir> I'm test building it now
[12:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it uses bin86 and builds fine at least
[12:35] <seb128> Kamion: just uploaded a new gnome-panel that should fix the icons in the default config
[12:35] <Kamion> seb128: thanks!
[12:35] <seb128> you're welcome :)
[12:42] <dholbach> does anyone know what going wrong here?
[12:42] <dholbach> cd python && xvfb-run -a python setup.py clean
[12:42] <dholbach> /usr/bin/xvfb-run: line 19: 0: command not found
[12:43] <dholbach> and line 19 of xvfb-run is:           XVFBARGS=-screen 0 640x480x8
[12:43] <Kamion> wasn't that fixed in Debian recently?
[12:43] <Kamion>   * Remove spurious quotes from variable expansions of $XVFBARGS and
[12:43] <Kamion>     $LISTENTCP in xvfb-run.  Thanks to Jeff Lessem for the patch!
[12:43] <Kamion>     (Closes:# 286181)
[12:44] <dholbach> unfortunately not fixed on my box... which is recent hoary
[12:59] <pitti> Hi Astharot 
[12:59] <Astharot> hi pitti
[12:59] <Astharot> I just replied to your mail :P
[01:00] <pitti> Astharot: this is exactly the no-ob patch
[01:01] <seb128> jdub: around ?
[01:01] <Astharot> what do you mean with "no-ob" ? :P
[01:02] <pitti> Astharot: it does not change anything
[01:02] <low> Kamion: well, the problem is, after reboot, i get "L 99 99 99 etc"
[01:02] <Astharot> depth is only incremented after the recursion and the check (depth>10) will never be true
[01:05] <Kamion> low: you need either a LILO expert or a RAID expert, neither of which is me :)
[01:05] <low> Kamion: to sum up, i have: /dev/sdX1, ~100MB, ext2, raid1, md0. /dev/sdX2, 400MB, swap, raid0, md1. /dev/sdX3, remaining space, xfs, raid 5, md2
[01:06] <low> Kamion: hmmm it is grub right ? :)
[01:07] <Kamion> "L " anything is LILO
[01:07] <Kamion> perhaps you are not booting from where you think you're booting from
[01:07] <low> Kamion: hmmm aybe an old install then ?
[01:07] <pitti> elmo: bmv sync, please
[01:08] <low> there was a mdk 10-rc on it before
[01:08] <Kamion> low: you'll have to debug that locally I think
[01:08] <Kamion> figure out why grub did not overwrite that bootloader
[01:08] <low> Kamion: ok, i'll search for it
[01:08] <low> thx again !
[01:09] <pitti> elmo: f2c sync, please
[01:17] <ogra> morning
[01:20] <pitti> Hi ogra
[01:23] <ogra> pitti: i will change the order of the patches, since mdz urges me to get the basic work of the client in....so i'll have to do the device-manager first (i need a button there)....
[01:24] <pitti> ogra: why do you want to change the order then?
[01:24] <pitti> ogra: well, the patches are independent, aren't they? (manager and backend)
[01:26] <ogra> pitti: because i suspect that the dmi patch takes as long to get in as the other two.... device-manager is python/glade.... so the possibility of buffer overflows is less ;)
[01:26] <pitti> ogra: okay
[01:48] <sivang> morning all!
[01:48] <dholbach> hi sivan!
[01:48] <pitti> Hi Sivan
[01:49] <sivang> Hi martin, dholbach 
[01:50] <ogra> moin sivang
[01:50] <sivang> ogra: Moins! ;-)
[01:53] <elmo> pitti/kamion: done
[01:53] <pitti> thanks
[01:53] <elmo> Mithrandir: ok to override ubuntu changes?
[01:54] <mjg59> I am so in love with that patch to make sudo do readahead
[01:54] <Mithrandir> elmo: yes
[01:55] <Mithrandir> I've pondered hacking readahead a bit more and giving it an init script, possibly together with some evil kernel magic.
[01:55] <elmo> pitti: btw, if you're bored and/or already talking to him, please beat some sense into the toolchain-source maintainer
[01:55] <elmo> he's using .tar.gz instead of orig.tar.gz
[01:55] <pitti> elmo: oh, a native package?
[01:55] <elmo> yes
[01:55] <elmo> and the tar ball is not small
[01:56] <pitti> bah
[01:56] <pitti> well, I'm not exactly bored and I did not yet talk to him, but I will open a bug report
[01:56] <Mithrandir> so it'd start at the beginning and collect file names (through some /proc interface or something) and then write that list at the end of the boot.  Reuse list at next boot.
[01:56] <ajmitch> pitti: what's the deal with security updates for warty universe packages? :)
[01:56] <elmo> pitti: thanks
[01:57] <pitti> ajmitch: send a patch to security-review@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:57] <pitti> ajmitch: then I take a look at it and upload it
[01:57] <pitti> ajmitch: Astharot has a lot of experience with that :-)
[01:58] <ajmitch> pitti: alright, thanks
[01:58] <pitti> cool
[01:58] <ajmitch> the version in hoary is ok, so I guess I'll have to grab just security fixes from there?
[01:58] <pitti> sure
[01:59] <pitti> or from upstream cvs, or woody security updates, or ...
[01:59] <ajmitch> yeah, I've got access to cvs, no problems with that ;)
[02:02] <mjg59> So, uh, what's this "suspend" option that's appeared in the logout menu?
[02:05] <sladen> mjg59: can we do the opposite of XP  ---have S4 by default and show S3 if you hold down shift
[02:06] <Treenaks> 
[02:06] <Treenaks> hm
[02:07] <mjg59> sladen: Or have a GUI to enable it
[02:07] <mjg59> It'd be a trivial application to do that
[02:09] <jdub> seb128: back
[02:09] <jdub> good morning freedom lovers
[02:09] <seb128> jdub: hey
[02:09] <ajmitch> morning jeff
[02:10] <seb128> jdub: we really want to switch admin and preferences menus ? There is no nice way to do that atm, that's alphabetic order
[02:10] <jbailey> ;P
[02:10] <Mithrandir> mjg59: what's the plan wrt swsusp and swap files?
[02:10] <jdub> seb128: would really like to, yes
[02:10] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Unsupported
[02:10] <seb128> jdub: k
[02:11] <Mithrandir> mjg59: bah, boring.  We could do Magic with devmapper, I think.
[02:11] <jbailey> mjg59: I still need guidance from you (or someone) and how to pick the resume partition if someone has more than one swap file.
[02:11] <mjg59> There's some code floating around, but nothing doing before Hoary+1 at least
[02:11] <ajmitch> jbailey: yes? ;)
[02:11] <dholbach> jbailey: ajmitch is pythoneering - so don't poke him :-)
[02:12] <daniels> jdub: PHREEDOM
[02:13] <ogra> jdub: any idea about the wine stuff ? i would like to trigger a debian sync if we dont include the winehq packages nobody seens to find time to review....
[02:13] <jdub> dredg: that was a conversation he had with nat *before* hula
[02:14] <jdub> ogra: unfortunately, scott's packages are a significant fork away from the debian packages
[02:14] <dredg> jdub: ug, indeed. rearrange my sentence so that it makes sense....
[02:14] <ogra> jdub: yep, thats why i'm asking...
[02:14] <jdub> ogra: sync is fine
[02:14] <ogra> jdub: since even the reviewer will need deep insight in wine 
[02:14] <ogra> ok
[02:15] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: any thoughts on http://arch.err.no/index.cgi/tfheen@idi.ntnu.no--2005/pkgconfig--multiarch--0--patch-1 ?
[02:18] <mjg59> jbailey: Pick the largest, or if they're the same pick the first
[02:19] <jbailey> mjg59: Yezboss.  And should I poke that value into /sys at install time right away so that someone could suspend anytime after that?
[02:20] <low> Kamion: ok, i'll wiped all hd mbr to be sure, reinstalled, now when the box boots, it's stuck with a blinking cursor, not even telling me "insert a system disk" or whatever
[02:21] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: meh, pkgconfig
[02:21] <low> s/i'll/i've
[02:21] <mjg59> jbailey: Hrm. Best not to poke it into /sys at install time.
[02:22] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: else, it'd possibly be pkg-pkg-config.
[02:22] <jbailey> mjg59: Yezboss.
[02:22] <mjg59> Argle. Do we know what the swap partitions are at the point that initrd-tools is installed?
[02:22] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I think I might pretend I'm not the maintainer of that
[02:22] <jbailey> mjg59: I'd hope so.  The questions is can I get to that information without depending on parted? =)
[02:22] <mjg59> Does the installer build a ramdisk on install?
[02:23] <moquist> ogra: you pinged a while back...if you still have anything to say ATM please try a PM.
[02:23] <moquist> ogra: I'm at LinuxWorld in Boston, so I can't watch IRC regularly.  :)
[02:24] <mjg59> jbailey: Presumably initrd-tools will be installed in stage 1? I don't think there's any reason to support suspend at that point (and it wouldn't work anyway), so setting RESUME so that stage 2 is suspendable would probably be the best plan
[02:24] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: apart from the name, any thoughts? :)
[02:24] <ogra> moquist: we were reviewing the MaintainerCandidates page yesterday, and tried to separate the Member candidates form the MOTU candidates.....
[02:24] <ogra> moquist: which category are you in ? 
[02:25] <moquist> ogra: sorry, what's MOTU?
[02:25] <ogra> moquist: universe package maintainer
[02:25] <ogra> moquist: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
[02:26] <moquist> ogra: MOTU, though I don't have any package(s) (yet)
[02:26] <ogra> moquist: we are currently in a speedup of the approval process until hoary is released, so if you want to participate it is the best time to get in now
[02:27] <martinal> hi
[02:27] <ajmitch> moquist: and you even get fame & glory thrown in for free :)
[02:27] <martinal> could someone explain the sound server situation to me? it all seems so complex...
[02:28] <moquist> ajmitch: heh
[02:28] <martinal> i've heard of alsa, osd, esd, esound, polypaudio
[02:28] <moquist> what I'm really really really interested in is education-related stuff - getting LTSP on Ubuntu, for starters
[02:29] <moquist> I know that the nfs-swap problem is holding back a 2.6 LTSP kernel, which would of course be preferable to the 2.4 kernel currently in use.
[02:29] <moquist> anybody interested in working with me on that?
[02:30] <ogra> moquist: i think sivang expressed interest in ltsp....
[02:32] <moquist> ogra: yes, sivang and I have chatted a few times; i'll ping him
[02:33] <sladen> moquist: can the swap be done using network block device rather than swapfile on NFS?
[02:35] <mjg59> Ok, I've got another ACPI patch that needs to go in
[02:35] <moquist> sladen: I don't know...I'm not sure how much easier that would be
[02:36] <martinal> why do yo uneed a networked swapfile at all?
[02:36] <martinal> i thought the idea of terminal services was that everything was on one centralized server
[02:38] <moquist> martinal: for thin clients with <32MB of memory, swap -- even over the network -- is better than no swap
[02:39] <Treenaks> moquist: thin clients only run an X server. No swap necessary
[02:39] <moquist> martinal: you don't need disks anywhere but on the central server, but the thin clients need enough memory to handle their X session
[02:39] <rcaskey_> martinal: I don't know about osd but it kinda goes esd -> alsa or dummyesd -> polypaudio -> alsa I believe
[02:40] <rcaskey_> so that way you can replace esd wit polypaudio and your esd apps don't b0rk
[02:40] <moquist> Treenaks: I know this is necessary because I hung out at the LTSP booth at LW in Boston yesterday, and Jim McQuillen (sp?) said this is what's holding the 2.6 kernel back
[02:41] <rcaskey_> mjg59: does it have a bug#?
[02:41] <mjg59> rcaskey_: Nope
[02:41] <moquist> Treenaks: also, this has been mentioned on the Ubuntu devel mailing list
[02:41] <mjg59> rcaskey_: Well, yes - there's at least one filed bug that it'd fix
[02:41] <Treenaks> moquist: it's weird..
[02:41] <rcaskey_> mjg: hehe, what's it do?
[02:41] <moquist> Treenaks: heh - definitely.
[02:41] <zul> hey
[02:42] <mjg59> rcaskey_: Fixes implicit truncation of ACPI buffers
[02:42] <rcaskey_> yeah, that's not mine ;)
[02:42] <moquist> apparently Jim himself has been porting the nfs-swap patch forward through the 2.4 kernels, but 2.6 changed too many things, so he's looking for help
[02:42] <mjg59> zul: Hey - I've got an ACPI patch to feed you
[02:42] <rcaskey_> mdz reassigned my UNKNOWN bug against acpid but the more I think about it it may be hotkeys ;)
[02:42] <zul> mjg59: okies you know what to do :)
[02:43] <mjg59> rcaskey_: What's the #?
[02:43] <rcaskey_> let me look it up
[02:43] <mjg59> zul: Address again?
[02:43] <zul> mjg59: zul@gentoo.org
[02:43] <ogra> zul: gah... that should be zul@ubuntu.com ;)
[02:43] <zul> it should
[02:44] <ogra> zul: it will be  :)
[02:44] <zul> my ring of trust is quite small actually for my gpg key
[02:44] <mjg59> zul: Sent
[02:44] <Treenaks> zul: where in the world are you? :)
[02:44] <zul> k thanks ill take a look at it tonight
[02:44] <zul> Treenaks: canada
[02:45] <Treenaks> zul: hm, not near here..
[02:45] <zul> im close to where jbailey is
[02:45] <zul> but its still like a 4 hour drive 
[02:46] <Treenaks> zul: going to conferences helps :)
[02:46] <rcaskey_> mjg: ahh, it got nixed. Was 6625, duplicate of 3256
[02:46] <zul> Treenaks: yeah but all the conferences are in europe
[02:46] <zul> or australia
[02:46] <Treenaks> zul: or the US
[02:47] <zul> still if one is still getting out of debt for not working for two months last year
[02:47] <ajmitch> zul: or nz! :)
[02:47] <Treenaks> zul: hmm.. that's bad
[02:47] <zul> bah...no one goes to new zealand :)
[02:47] <rcaskey_> mjg: ooh, it's even got a proposed fix
[02:47] <rcaskey_> mjg: and it's proposed by...you
[02:47] <ajmitch> zul: just you wait ;)
[02:48] <rcaskey_> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-November/010581.html'
[02:48] <rcaskey_> (woops, nix the ending ' of course)
[02:48] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: actually, it's pkgconfig since the debian package is called pkgconfig
[02:50] <zul> mjg59: got it thanks ill include it the next set
[02:50] <mjg59> rcaskey_: We'll have a neater solution in the default scripts for Hoary
[02:50] <rcaskey_> mjg59: so it's coming post freeze?
[02:50] <mjg59> zul: Rock
[02:51] <mjg59> rcaskey_: Yeah, it's for support of a HoaryGoal, so we can do that sort of thing
[02:51] <rcaskey_> ahh, cool
[02:51] <rcaskey_> then I guess I need to get off my buttt and figure out the 2 problems that keep S3 from working then since S1 will work ;)
[02:52] <mjg59> What are your problems with S3?
[02:52] <mjg59> (And are you using the suspend script?)
[02:52] <rcaskey_> mjg: using whatever is a dep for desktop base
[02:52] <rcaskey_> but it's spewing errors about orinoco and some sort of lock
[02:52] <rcaskey_> I don't have the machine in front of me
[02:53] <mjg59> Oh, blah, yes
[02:53] <mjg59> Irritatingly, I haven't been able to reproduce that
[02:53] <sivang> pitti: so, for #6092 would you think a label with a note that the uid cannot be changed on an existing user is good?
[02:54] <rcaskey_> mjg: I've got an inspiron 2650 with external dlink 802.11 adapter and your welcome to have a go at it over ssh this evening if you'd like
[02:54] <ogra> elmo: please sync wine
[02:54] <mjg59> rcaskey_: Hmm. By external do you mean USB or PCMCIA?
[02:54] <rcaskey_> PCMCIA
[02:54] <pitti> sivang: hm, just don't allow it :-)
[02:55] <sivang> pitti: ah ok, then it's better, becasue I recall you told me it was somewhat a confusion for the user that tries to change the uid on the spin box and get's nothing :)
[02:55] <mjg59> I've got a machine with PCMCIA and an orinoco device for testing, and I'm utterly failing to manage to get it to happen
[02:55] <mjg59> Which is a pain :)
[02:55] <sivang> pitti: (less patching overhead)
[02:58] <ajmitch> night all
[02:58] <Treenaks> night ajmitch 
[02:59] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: no, like I say, I'm considering orphaning it
[03:00] <sivang> night ajmitch 
[03:00] <ogra> ajmitch: night
[03:05] <seb128> elmo: here ?
[03:06] <Treenaks> don't forget gpsd.. it contains python bits as well
[03:07] <ogra> Treenaks: did you already upload it ?
[03:09] <Treenaks> no
[03:09] <Treenaks> no time (at work now)
[03:28] <dholbach> bbl
[03:30] <elmo> seb128: ?
[03:31] <elmo> ogra: done
[03:31] <ogra> elmo: thanks
[03:31] <daniels> e to the lmo
[03:31] <seb128> elmo: just wondering if pyphany is in NEW or somewhere, I've not get any NEW mail afaik
[03:31] <seb128> I've uploaded it yesterday
[03:33] <seb128> jdub: speaking about polypaudio, what's going on with it in debian ? getting it in debian would get the gst-plugins for free
[03:33] <elmo> seb128: it's in NEW yah, I'll process it now
[03:33] <seb128> k, thanks
[03:33] <jdub> seb128: the gst polyp plugin is b0rk
[03:33] <seb128> k
[03:34] <seb128> elmo: could you sync gazpacho and gok from incoming too ?
[03:36] <elmo> seb128: ok to override ubuntu changes to gok?
[03:39] <seb128> elmo: hum, I'll merge it in fact, thanks for noticing
[03:40] <elmo> why do gnome packages so often check for a fortan compiler, anyways?
[03:41] <daniels> elmo: because it's CUTTING-EDGE TECHNOLOGY
[03:41] <daniels> the big language debate is between java, c#, and fortran
[03:41] <seb128> no idea
[03:42] <jdub> heh, seb128 
[03:42] <jdub> * python/tests/level.py: reproduced the damn "Desktop doesn't refresh"
[03:42] <jdub> bug
[03:42] <jdub> * server/gam_poll.c: fix fo the bug
[03:42] <jdub> ^ latest gamin checkin :)
[03:42] <daniels> ez gtk boog
[03:42] <pitti> very verbose...
[03:43] <daniels> i like 'fix fo the bug'
[03:43] <daniels> it be representin'
[03:43] <sivang> daniels: heheh
[03:43] <jdub> i have observed
[03:43] <jdub> that angry frenchmen don't tend to use a lot of words
[03:43] <daniels> dv?
[03:43] <jdub> uh huh
[03:44] <seb128> jdub: I don't get this Desktop refresh bug here, but I'll close the upstream bugs on nautilus, thanks :)
[03:45] <jdub> seb128: seemed ok with inotify, hey?
[03:46] <jdub> seb128: i'm not too happy that the two backends duplicate so much
[03:46] <seb128> yeah, me neither
[03:46] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: upstream or just the Debian package?
[03:47] <Sysace> hey guys.. somebody in #ubuntu suggested I check here.. need ppc support.. here's the story:  I've completed the first stage of the install, when asked to reboot, I get yaboot, choose gnu/linux, choose Linux (Linux/old are the options), then i get error:  /pci@80000000/pci-bridge@d/pci-ata@1/@0/disk@0:11,\\linux:  No such file or directory
[03:48] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: both, simultaneously
[03:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I could pick it up
[03:49] <Mithrandir> if you want to give it to me
[03:49] <Mithrandir> it seems to be a fairly simple package.
[03:49] <daniels> Mithrandir: i'm not sure i trust you enough to give you an fd.o account
[03:50] <Mithrandir> daniels: :P
[03:51] <Sysace> nobody?
[03:51] <Mithrandir> Sysace: it
[03:51] <sivang> pitti: Martin, closing #6092 and half of #1849 ==> http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-s-t/
[03:52] <Mithrandir> Sysace: it's an #ubuntu question, not related to development, or?
[03:52] <sivang> pitti: (the other half of #1849 is in system-tools-backends, working on it now)
[03:53] <Sysace> Mithrandir:  ppl in #ubuntu suggested I check here.. nobody there could help...
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Sysace: hm, ok.  I'm not a ppc guy, so I can't really help you, tho
[03:55] <zul> svenl: ping can you try to help out sysace you are a ppc guy
[03:55] <jdub> daniels: er, bandwidth hogging for a bit; just updating ppc and i386 install/live images
[03:55] <jdub> daniels: let me know if it's hurting and i can kill it
[03:56] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: do you want it upstream as well? :p
[03:56] <Keybuk> it means dealing with freedesktop.org :p
[03:56] <daniels> jdub: nah, 'sfine
[03:56] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: apart from the occasional breakin, is that a problem? ;)
[03:56] <thom> Keybuk: giving away pkgconfig?
[03:56] <daniels> Keybuk: well, very soon you won't have to be dealing with me, so sweet deal
[03:57] <Keybuk> daniels: you're leaving fd.o?  how comes?
[03:58] <Keybuk> thom: I just don't have time for it
[03:58] <Sysace> I guess nobody here that can offer any ppc help huh?  Well thanks anyways.. maybe I'll check back l8r..
[03:58] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: seriously though, is fd.o a pain in any way?
[03:59] <svenl> zul: ok.
[03:59] <svenl> Sysace: what is your problem ? 
[03:59] <daniels> Keybuk: already given release manager away, working on giving admin away; i'd just much rather be spending the limited time i have there hacking on modular x, rather than adding accounts and changing permissions
[03:59] <pitti> thom: I want Grumpy Groundhog back! Poor Grumpy...
[03:59] <daniels> Keybuk: plus, i'm terrible at being fd.o rm
[03:59] <Sysace> svenl: here's the story:  I've completed the first stage of the install, when asked to reboot, I get yaboot, choose gnu/linux, choose Linux (Linux/old are the options), then i get error:  /pci@80000000/pci-bridge@d/pci-ata@1/@0/disk@0:11,\\linux:  No such file or directory
[03:59] <thom> pitti: yeah, me too
[03:59] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: not especially, no
[03:59] <daniels> Mithrandir: not at all, we just leave you alone
[03:59] <daniels> you need stuff, email sitewranglers@, someone will do it
[04:00] <svenl> Sysace: Mmm.
[04:00] <Keybuk> thom: I'm also _seriously_ considering orphanining Libtool
[04:00] <Mithrandir> daniels: sounds good to me.
[04:00] <svenl> Sysace: i need a bit more background info.
[04:00] <daniels> right now, that's 'me', hopefully in the future that will be 'not me'
[04:00] <daniels> Keybuk: !
[04:00] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: sure, I'll take it upstream as well.
[04:00] <svenl> Sysace: what hardware do you have ? and what are you installing ? 
[04:00] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: (no, not libtool, pkg-config only :)
[04:00] <Keybuk> aaww
[04:01] <Keybuk> daniels: well, probably RFA to make sure someone sane takes it over
[04:01] <Sysace> svenl:  it's a b/w g3, 1 hd.. osx dual-booting.. boot partion is 11, / is 12 and swap on 13.  Any other specific info, please ask away
[04:01] <svenl> zul: BTW, what is the right way to get the wiki stuff sorted out ? I hear i have to ask sm about this, any idea on when he shows up.
[04:02] <daniels> Mithrandir: email sitewranglers@l.fd.o your gpg key, ssh key, username, real name, email address, say that you'd like to be added to pkgconfig and that both myself and scott have oked it
[04:02] <zul> sm?
[04:02] <zul> svenl: sm?
[04:02] <svenl> Sysace: i am no yaboot expert, but i feel something is wrong here.
[04:02] <Treenaks> daniels: mother's maiden name, social security number?
[04:02] <svenl> zul: well, whoever i have to ask for wiki related things.
[04:03] <zul> svenl: dont know probably one of the doc team members
[04:03] <ogra> Treenaks: shoe size
[04:03] <mjg59> thom: What's the suspend option in the logout menu doing currently?
[04:03] <Treenaks> ogra: no, that's too obvious
[04:03] <Sysace> svenl:  yup.. something definately wrong.. lol.. just wish I knew hat
[04:03] <svenl> zul: in particular, when i try to register, it tells me that the email address is already used, but i cannot get the password it used, and there is no email link on the page to ask.
[04:03] <zul> svenl: i dont know ask one of the docs people
[04:03] <daniels> Treenaks: if he wants to give them to me, sure
[04:04] <daniels> Treenaks: (bearing in mind that sitewranglers has a public archive)
[04:04] <svenl> Sysace: can you reboot into the installer and look at installed system ? 
[04:04] <svenl> zul: ok.
[04:05] <svenl> Sysace: let me boot the ibook.
[04:05] <Sysace> svenl:  partition table's u mean?
[04:05] <zul> svenl: are you can try #ubuntu-docs
[04:05] <thom> mjg59: /usr/sbin/pmi action suspend
[04:05] <svenl> zul: oh, cool.
[04:05] <zul> svenl: you might want to try messaging sysace so you dont flood the channel
[04:05] <svenl> Sysace: now, i want to know both : 1) how does the partition table look, preferably if you can get the ...
[04:06] <svenl> Sysace: let's go talk alone in our corner.
[04:07] <thom> mjg59: which runs /etc/acpi/sleep.sh on acpi machines, and does pbbuttonsd magic on ppc
[04:08] <Mithrandir> daniels: done.
[04:09] <daniels> Mithrandir: word
[04:10] <mjg59> thom: Rock
[04:10] <mjg59> How about hibernation?
[04:10] <thom> `pmi action hibernate` does the right thing; 
[04:11] <thom> pmi capabilities to query what's available
[04:11] <mjg59> Excellent
[04:11] <mjg59> So, do we want some sort of interface to enable/disable sleep?
[04:12] <Mithrandir> thom: what package is pmi in?
[04:12] <mjg59> I still tend towards enabling suspend by default, but not enabling sleep
[04:12] <mjg59> s/suspend/hibernate/
[04:12] <ogra> Mithrandir: power-management-interface
[04:13] <thom> mjg59: i think we do (want an interface to do it); and yes, agree with hib, no susp
[04:13] <mjg59> I don't think we can support S3 on AMD64 yet, either
[04:13] <mjg59> thom: Ok. Should we try to integrate this into an existing app?
[04:14] <Mithrandir> ogra: hmm.  Not in Hoary?
[04:14] <thom> mjg59: i suppose a new g-s-t frontend/backend would be reasonable? (note that on ppc AIUI it's pretty much boolean - either you get working suspend or you get working hibernate)
[04:14] <thom> Mithrandir: universe for now
[04:15] <mjg59> thom: I don't think we have ppc hibernate patches in our kernel, do we?
[04:15] <daniels> hm, g-s-t
[04:15] <mjg59> And I wasn't sure if we had sleep patches for newer machines
[04:15] <daniels> that's something i totally forgot about for fd.o
[04:15] <thom> mjg59: hrm, did they get ripped out? elmo certainly has hibernate love
[04:16] <mjg59> Oh, they're in? Are you sure he wasn't building his own kernel?
[04:16] <thom> dunno
[04:16] <mjg59> thom: g-s-t makes sense, but I'm not keen on building an entire new app just for two tickyboxes
[04:16] <thom> mjg59: i don't know where else it fits
[04:17] <elmo> the patch doesn't apply for 2.6.10 :(
[04:17] <mjg59> Let me take a look at what we have...
[04:17] <mjg59> elmo: Yeah, that's what I thought
[04:17] <thom> that answers that one
[04:17] <mjg59> We should harass benh for sleep love, at least
[04:17] <elmo> we need to beg/bribe BenH to update if hoary is going to have any ppc hibernate love
[04:17] <daniels> benh is still on semi-holiday mode, iirc
[04:17] <svenl> hi elmo 
[04:17] <daniels> he's not been doing much radeon stuff
[04:18] <mjg59> thom: Do we ship boot-admin?
[04:18] <thom> not that i'm aware of
[04:18] <zul> there was a radeon patch in linus' bk yesterday
[04:20] <thom> mjg59: it looks disabled
[04:20] <mjg59> thom: Mm. Yeah, ok, it doesn't look like it's going to fit into any of the shipped ones
[04:20] <mjg59> So it'll have to be a new one. Sigh. Can you think of anything else we should put in there while we're at it? :)
[04:21] <thom> mjg59: locking of screen
[04:22] <mjg59> Oh, yes
[04:22] <mjg59> We also need to fix that so it actually works
[04:22] <thom> yeah
[04:22] <mjg59> So this is going to be three ticky boxes on 386, and two on amd64 and ppc
[04:22] <thom> yep
[04:24] <svenl> Mmm, anyone has ubuntu running on a powermac and can tell me if the yaboot.conf stuff got moved somewhere ? 
[04:26] <sivang> pitti: ah network lost again?
[04:27] <pitti> sivang: no, this time I just logged out/in for some test
[04:27] <sivang> pitti: ah ok, did you get my last message?
[04:31] <mjg59> thom: Any g-s-t hacking experience?
[04:32] <svenl> zul: well, it seems his installation didn't install any kernel.
[04:34] <mjg59> Haha
[04:34] <mjg59> They ship my resume-from-initrd patch
[04:34] <sladen> hehe :) ...are they using it though
[04:35] <fabbione> mjg59: no suprise since they steal stuff from our kernels
[04:35] <rcaskey_> "steal"?
[04:35] <fabbione> take
[04:36] <fabbione> whatevert
[04:36] <fabbione> i am too tired to discuss spelling right now
[04:36] <sivang> rcaskey_: steal ==> the open source term for adopt, learn from, take ideas from :)
[04:36] <mjg59> sladen: Not at the moment
[04:36] <thom> mjg59: not since it was x-s-t
[04:37] <svenl> Mmm, it seems like Sysace installed from Preview powerpc Binary1 (20041020), and there doesn't seem to be any kernel installed (at least /boot doesn't have them).
[04:37] <svenl> is this preview binary version known to have such problems ? 
[04:37] <mjg59> thom: Hmm. Well, we'll just have to fight about who's going to write this, then :)
[04:37] <thom> i am currently packaging rpm for scott
[04:38] <thom> there is only so much pain i can take in one go; however if you don't get to it by the weekend i'll take
[04:39] <Kamion> svenl: no.
[04:39] <svenl> hi Kamion 
[04:39] <sivang> hmm, does hdparm make much sense on SATA drives?
[04:40] <Mithrandir> sivang: it can't talk to them yet.
[04:40] <sivang> like in enabling DMA mode etc..
[04:40] <svenl> Kamion: i think you better take over, i really have no idea why Sysace didn't get any kernel-image installed.
[04:40] <Kamion> I mean it's possible, but I don't remember it, and I have absolutely zero intention of trying to debug warty preview
[04:40] <Kamion> sorry, today is very very busy for me
[04:40] <sivang> Mithrandir: meaning we are using those in poorer proformance then in win32 with mfct. drivers?
[04:40] <svenl> Kamion: supposedly you can just install stuff.
[04:41] <sivang> /dev/sda1:
[04:41] <sivang>  setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 1
[04:41] <sivang>  HDIO_SET_32BIT failed: Invalid argument
[04:41] <sivang>  IO_support   =  0 (default 16-bit)
[04:41] <svenl> Kamion: well, the funny thing is that the released version is dated the same as this preview.
[04:41] <Mithrandir> sivang: oh, why?
[04:41] <Kamion> oh, release was mistakenly labelled preview
[04:41] <mjg59> Ok, nothing PM-related worth stealing from Suse
[04:42] <Kamion> nevertheless, sorry, today everything else I have to do is already top priority
[04:42] <svenl> Kamion: possibly, i have no idea.
[04:42] <svenl> Kamion: hehe.
[04:42] <sivang> Mithrandir: because we don't have anything to enable it's DMA and 32bit modes...but I'm far then expert in this..
[04:42] <Mithrandir> sivang: you can't have SATA without DMA.
[04:42] <svenl> Kamion: anyway, is it best he does reinstall, or just try to install the kernel.
[04:42] <Mithrandir> sivang: and 32 bit transfer mode doesn't really mean anything
[04:43] <sivang> Mithrandir: ah ok, see I told you I knew nothing about it, so I don't need to do anything special when using a SATA drive? I just get the performance blast automagically?
[04:43] <svenl> ok, see you later ...
[04:44] <Mithrandir> sivang: yes, you should
[04:45] <Kamion> Sysace: I'd need to see /var/log/syslog from your installer (/var/log/debian-installer/syslog after installation) to have any chance of working out why the kernel didn't get installed
[04:46] <Sysace> Kamion:  I've already tried re-install.. not trying to install kernel manually.. I've found kernel-source.2.6.8.1 and kernel-............  ok.. I'll try to get the log
[04:46] <Sysace> not = now
[04:46] <Sysace> 1 sec
[04:46] <Kamion> it's not kernel-*, it's linux-*
[04:46] <Kamion> but please file a bug or something, I can't help in real-time on IRC today
[04:47] <jdub> yay powerpc install! :-)
[04:49] <sivang> Mithrandir: tnx
[04:49] <mjg59> Grngk.
[04:49] <Sysace> Kamion:  the syslog looks real weird at the bottom... is there somewhere i can paste it?
[04:50] <Sysace> Kamion:  k.. sorry for taking your time.. thanks anyways
[04:50] <mjg59> benh's sleep patch hasn't been update since last year, and so still includes huge gobs of unneeded crap
[04:50] <mjg59> Doesn't even come close to applying. Sigh.
[04:55] <mjg59> Oh, no, hang on
[04:55] <mjg59> The Gentoo people have one which does apply
[04:56] <mjg59> Now we just need a test machine
[05:02] <zul> heh..
[05:03] <zul> good luck on that 
[05:03] <zul> mjg59: why check the gentoo forums for opinnons on it 
[05:03] <mjg59> zul: It seems to work for people
[05:04] <mjg59> The issue is, it's a 230K patch
[05:04] <mjg59> 30K of that is absolutely necessary. The other 200K is a massive update of the PPC framebuffers.
[05:04] <zul> bleah
[05:04] <mjg59> Without the framebuffer updates, sleep won't work.
[05:05] <mjg59> From an x86 viewpoint, I don't care - we don't support framebuffers
[05:05] <haggai> lamont: was http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/o/openoffice.org2/1.9.76-0ubuntu2/openoffice.org2_1.9.76-0ubuntu2_20050216-1036-amd64-failed an OOM condition?
[05:05] <mjg59> But I'm worried about it being a regression on other ppc hardware
[05:05] <zul> break it up maybe rather than one big patch small chunks of it
[05:05] <mjg59> zul: None of it's useful without the rest
[05:05] <zul> true
[05:06] <mjg59> How would people feel about putting it in, seeing if anyone bitches and then pulling it?
[05:06] <mjg59> We've got a reasonable number of people with Macs...
[05:06] <zul> but im not saying dump the frambebuffer im saying to split the patch
[05:06] <zul> ask t-bone he is doing ppc
[05:08] <mjg59> zul: Split the patch to what extent?
[05:08] <mjg59> I can split the FB updates out, but I can't break them down to lower than the file level
[05:08] <zul> mjg59, like from 200k chunks to 2 100k chunks
[05:09] <mjg59> Sure, that can be done
[05:09] <mjg59> It doesn't make it much more readable, though :)
[05:09] <mjg59> T-None: Ping?
[05:09] <zul> heh...no my problem its t-bone's ;)
[05:09] <mjg59> (when you're around)
[05:10] <lamont> haggai: you think it needs to be kicked?
[05:10] <zul> hey lamont 
[05:11] <lamont> morning zul
[05:11] <ogra> elmo: no trace of wine yet....
[05:11] <lamont> fabbione: you still around?
[05:11] <fabbione> lamont: yes
[05:11] <lamont> or zul - what's the status of 2.6.10 after yesterday?  (that is, what's -19, and do we still need to do the abi roll and upload -20?)
[05:12] <fabbione> lamont: yes, but not before tomorrow
[05:12] <lamont> rgith
[05:12] <zul> cool
[05:13] <lamont> fabbione: ok.  I'll start pasting that together, along with wearing my daniels hat (no lice, right daniels??) to do lrm
[05:14] <zul> lamont: i have a usb bk snapshot that im working on but its not ready or anything like that
[05:14] <lamont> ok
[05:14] <fabbione> guys since you are going to bump the ABI
[05:14] <fabbione> use this opportunity to pull in as many changes as you can
[05:15] <lamont> fabbione: all the more reason to wait until after this week's array CD set releases....
[05:16] <fabbione> lamont: mostlikely yes
[05:16] <mjg59> zul: http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.5/gnupatch@42010137eNuC9Fwegxk1MrsprC9BEg is the sleep stuff on its own
[05:17] <zul> lamont, can you pull in what mjg59 said as well
[05:17] <lamont> fabbione: and one of pitti's changes is also waiting for the abi roll?
[05:17] <lamont> inotify + that-one-of-pitti's?
[05:18] <lamont> mjg59: that's ready to pull into 2.6.10?
[05:19] <fabbione> lamont: i had to revert both of them. so once you readd one you need to readd the other
[05:19] <lamont> ok
[05:20] <mjg59> lamont: That provides sleep support for newer Macs, but breaks sleep support on all Macs at the same time
[05:20] <mjg59> We need framebuffer updates to go with it
[05:20] <lamont> mjg59: I see...
[05:21] <Keybuk> oh, man!  epiphany++
[05:21] <lamont> if you want to send me a list of things you assert will work if added, I'll include them in -20...  Tomorrow or Friday...
[05:21] <Keybuk> "an external program is needed to view ftp sites"
[05:21] <Keybuk> and launches Firefox
[05:22] <mjg59> lamont: Sure
[05:22] <mjg59> lamont: I'm somewhat fucked by not having test hardware here, though kamion ought to be able to check whether it works
[05:22] <Kamion> not today, but yes
[05:23] <mjg59> Ok. I think we should push it for -20 and then revert if it breaks working hardware.
[05:24] <lamont> I plan to use much of this morning working on the patches that need to go to debian, and then some of this afternoon/tomorrow working on getting another kernel ready to upload
[05:24] <mjg59> lamont: I'll feed you patches later on today, then
[05:25] <lamont> cool
[05:29] <Kamion> elmo: please sync os-prober 1.03
[05:29] <thom> Keybuk: *giggle*
[05:31] <zul> mjg59, the patch you sent me may might not get into -20 but ill give it a shot
[05:31] <Mithrandir> daniels: mail to sitewranglers seems to be held for approval.. isnt't that a bit backwards?
[05:37] <mjg59> lamont: Ok, I've got 6 bitkeeper patches for you that all look reasonable
[05:38] <lamont> mjg59: cool - email por favor
[05:39] <mjg59> lamont: zul: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/ppcpatches
[05:39] <mjg59> Or I can grab and mail them if you'd prefer
[05:39] <mjg59> Looks like this stuff will be getting into 2.6.11 in any case
[05:42] <haggai> lamont: I was wondering if you could see an oom message in the logs.  I have 2 more fixes I have to make so I need to upload new source anyway today, so don't worry about kicking that version again.
[05:42] <lamont> haggai: will look
[05:42] <haggai> lamont: thanks
[05:43] <mjg59> lamont: Did you want them emailed as well?
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> are there any bugs I should know about pertaining to gnome or gtk?
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> I just closed a file roller window, and the other file roller closed too
[05:44] <lamont> haggai: Feb 16 10:44:22 yellow kernel: typesconfig[32441] : segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000000401065 rsp 0000007fbfffca80 error 4
[05:44] <lamont> Feb 16 10:44:22 yellow kernel: typesconfig[32442] : segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 000000000040109e rsp 0000007fbfffca80 error 6
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> and so did rhythmbox-
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> and xmms
[05:44] <lamont> that's the only things in the log from during the build
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> err, xchat
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> and firefox, and gaim
[05:44] <haggai> lamont: hmm, odd.  Thanks for looking
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> none of them segfaulted or anything (says dmesg), they just closed
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> it was like clicking the X on the file roller window sent the signal to all the other apps I was running except gnome-terminal and thunderbird
[05:45] <lamont> haggai: that'
[05:45] <haggai> lamont: ah, typesconfig is part of OOo, that must be the problem
[05:45] <lamont> s looking in syslog
[05:45] <lamont> well, /var/log/messages, 
[05:46] <haggai> lamont: hmm, no it wasn't that problem.  Its a second problem actually.. :)
[05:47] <haggai> aaaah
[05:47] <haggai> Build killed with signal 15 after 150 minutes of inactivity
[05:48] <lamont> haggai: so it should _do_ something. ;-)
[05:49] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[05:50] <fabbione> elmo: please process NEW :-)
[05:51] <zul> bbl lunch
[05:57] <Kamion> hm, now who's using sed in a silly way in d-i startup
[05:57] <Kamion> never noticed that error before because only qemu was slow enough to display it
[05:59] <sivang> Kamion: isn't it a bit early for that ? ;-)
[06:00] <Kamion> for what?
[06:00] <sivang> Kamion: for the "are we there yet" badge
[06:01] <sivang> :-)
[06:01] <Kamion> erm, missing the point I think :)
[06:05] <mjg59> elmo: Around?
[06:12] <mdz> morning
[06:12] <sivang> morning mdz 
[06:12] <mvo_> morning mdz 
[06:13] <mdz> pitti: here?
[06:13] <mdz> is the warty-security kernel issue fixed?
[06:15] <mjg59> thom: Looks like we may be able to manage PPC hibernate, though I'm not touching that until we've got the sleep support in and tested
[06:18] <thom> mjg59: oh, cool
[06:18] <mjg59> Someone's updated benh's patch to apply to 2.6.10
[06:19] <thom> nice!
[06:21] <mjg59> http://honk.physik.uni-konstanz.de/~agx/linux-ppc/kernel/swsusp-2.6.10-rc2.diff
[06:21] <mjg59> Needs a small amount of massage, but other than that should apply fine
[06:22] <Kamion> difference between sleep and hibernate?
[06:23] <mjg59> RAM and disk
[06:23] <Kamion> oh, cool
[06:23] <mjg59> thom: But by the looks of it, it does currently disable StR
[06:23] <mjg59> Oh, maybe not
[06:24] <mjg59> It's more that StR doesn't use /sys/power/state on PPC
[06:25] <thom> hrm, +#if 0/* this breaks suspend to ram until the dust settles... */
[06:26] <mjg59> thom: We can drop that hunk
[06:26] <mjg59> The new radeonfb code ought to manage
[06:26] <thom> ok
[06:27] <mjg59> And the other #if 0 needs to be changed to #ifdef CONFIG_PMAC (or whatever)
[06:31] <thom> mjg59: nod
[06:35] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[06:35] <sivang> anybody seen a bug with the latest esound-daemon?
[06:35] <sivang> it won
[06:35] <sivang> let some progs start ..
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: yes, it is fixed for now; however, this may happen again, please see my bug followup
[06:37] <srbaker> okay.  i upgraded from warty to hoary.  is there a doc on how to replace xfree86 with xorg, and make sure xfree86 is gone?
[06:37] <mjg59> srbaker: It ought to Just Happen during the upgrade
[06:37] <sivang> mjg59: it happened that way for me
[06:38] <srbaker> okay.
[06:38] <srbaker> i did an upgrade last night and it seems to have broken a lot of gnome icons and themey things
[06:38] <mjg59> sivang: Yeah, and me (did this last weekend)
[06:38] <srbaker> so i ahve to sort that out first
[06:41] <Keybuk> daniels: failed X startup on Jane's laptop with hang when you try to view the log
[06:45] <mjg59> Keybuk: How come every laptop you touch turns to shit?
[06:45] <Keybuk> "could not open default font 'fixed':
[06:45] <Keybuk> I strongly suspect Mr Stone has been over-trimming
[06:46] <mjg59> Keybuk: Mm? How was it installed?
[06:46] <Keybuk> Hoary Array 4, and update
[06:46] <mjg59> xserver-xorg doesn't depend on anything that provides fixed, because it could be coming from a font server
[06:47] <mjg59> Is xfonts-misc installed?
[06:47] <mjg59> Uh, I don't mean that. Now, what do I mean?
[06:47] <mjg59> xfonts-base
[06:47] <Keybuk> yeah, first thing I checked
[06:48] <Keybuk> hmm, all of the font directories are missing fonts.dir
[06:49] <Keybuk> that's the second time I've seen this problem with Array 4, X-related postinst not being run
[06:54] <fabbione> seb128: what did you break this time?
[06:55] <fabbione> i can't even login after today upgrade
[06:55] <fabbione> :-)
[06:55] <seb128> fabbione: what's happening ?
 her X session immediately logs out
[06:55] <silbs> fab: any ideas?
[06:57] <jdub> fabbione: did you recently upgrade esound?
[07:00] <sivang> bah! xorg won't start anymore :-(
[07:01] <sivang> HiddenWolf: do one again, let's see if you're still happy? ;-))
[07:02] <fabbione> silbs
[07:02] <fabbione> silbs: same problem here
[07:02] <silbs> fabbione: gee, thanks
[07:02] <HiddenWolf> sivang: Can I cry on your shoulder if it doesn't?
[07:02] <silbs> :)
[07:02] <fabbione> jdub: i usually do a dist-upgrade
[07:02] <fabbione> because i kinda TRUST people around that have root on my machines
[07:03] <sivang> HiddenWolf: hmm well, then don't. it appears something b0rked my system , it started with different apps not wanting to fire up anymore...
[07:03] <jdub> uh
[07:03] <jdub> dudes
[07:03] <jdub> um
[07:03] <HiddenWolf> sivang: what's causing it?
[07:03] <jdub> downgrade your esound
[07:04] <jdub> see if that helps
[07:04] <jdub> :-)
[07:04] <sivang> jdub: hrm, I can recall I saw esound there on the upgrade list, I sure do hope so it's not my recent upload of g-s-t and s-t-b
[07:05] <silbs> jdub: esound isn't installed.
[07:05] <silbs> (at least one mine)
[07:06] <jdub> silbs: libesd0 is the problem package upgrade
[07:06] <jdub> erm, ahem, s/is/could be/
[07:06] <Kamion> oh, no, I think I might need to teach it how to count up to 5 or so
[07:06] <silbs> pinhead: hmmm
[07:06] <sivang> jdub: it removed ubuntu-desktop, and now only esound is removed and all of the poly audio are gone, rebooting.
[07:06] <sivang> s/removed/installed
[07:07] <fabbione> silbs: do this
[07:07] <fabbione> lftp http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/e/esound/
[07:07] <jdub> fabbione: you've verified it?
[07:07] <silbs> fabbione: we've just downgraded to array 4
[07:07] <fabbione> mget *0.2.35-2_*
[07:08] <fabbione> dpkg -i what is needed
[07:08] <fabbione> jdub: yes
[07:08] <jdub> great, new package coming shortly
[07:08] <fabbione> jdub: next step was to check who destroied my laptop
[07:08] <fabbione> jdub: and send him to hell :P
[07:09] <silbs> fab: <keybuk> I just used aptitude to select the version on the cd and downgrade it
[07:10] <sivang> grr no go :-/
[07:12] <seb128> jdub: dude you broke GNOME
[07:12] <seb128> jdub: I don't feel alone doing this now :p
[07:12] <sivang> seb128: heheh
[07:13] <jdub> seb128: iz esound boog :)
[07:13] <fabbione> eheheh
[07:14] <sivang> seb128: so downgrading esound is the remedy?
[07:14] <seb128> dunno, I've not updated
[07:14] <jdub> yes, it is
[07:15] <seb128> I don't trust jdub's upload usually :)
[07:15] <jdub> ;-)
[07:15] <sivang> heheh
[07:15] <sivang> ok, fix this after dinner.
[07:16] <Keybuk> sivang: yeah, downgrade libesd0
[07:17] <Keybuk> plushie jeff dolls will be available for voodoo later :p
[07:18] <sivang>  if only we were in the same room.....;-))
[07:24] <jdub> silbs: jdub voodoo dolls on the merchandise list?
[07:25] <Simira> jdub: I'd go for that!
[07:25] <mdz> why go to the trouble of making dolls; we can just stab jdub with pins
[07:25] <mdz> we could run a booth at LCA
[07:25] <mdz> "POKE JDUB $5"
[07:26] <jdub> you misspelt "KISS"
[07:26] <sivang> hehe
[07:26] <Simira> lol
[07:26] <jdub> and by lca
[07:26] <jdub> it'll be $10
[07:26] <jdub> i'll be a married man ;)
[07:26] <Kamion> jdub: I guess I need to hold Array CD 5 for this sound fix?
[07:26] <jdub> Kamion: yes please! DICKHEAD ALERT!
[07:27] <Kamion> I'm writing tedious publishing helper scripts in the meantime
[07:27] <Simira> what? More weddings? When, jdub?
[07:27] <jdub> Simira: april 17th
[07:28] <Simira> jdub: cool. So your honeymoon goes to Ubuntu Down Under, then?
[07:29] <jdub> Simira: hoary-final... wedding... lca(+birthday)... udu...
[07:29] <fabbione> jdub: good luck
[07:29] <fabbione> you will explode
[07:29] <Simira> haha
[07:29] <fabbione> i had bday+wedding+multiarse+honeymoon and i am already dead
[07:30] <fabbione> actually
[07:30] <fabbione> s/+honeymoon//
[07:30] <jdub> i'm planning to not celebrate my birthday in any useful manner
[07:30] <fabbione> i still need to start it :-)
[07:30] <jdub> (which is not unusual anyway)
[07:30] <Simira> fabbione: leaving tomorrow, aren't you?
[07:30] <fabbione> jdub: so did i.. i was too busy trying to kick relatives and parent out of my house
[07:31] <fabbione> Simira: that is the correct answer
[07:31] <Simira> bdays do kinda come in the background compared to some other things...
[07:31] <sivang> fabbione: for the islands? ;-)
[07:31] <maswan> jdub: I think this is an appropriate way of celebrating birthdays: http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/recept/25/
[07:32] <fabbione> sivang: yeps
[07:32] <thom> maswan: i don't think you have enough cake
[07:32] <sivang> fabbione: yay for you! bon voyage
[07:32] <jdub> maswan: whoa! rad :)
[07:32] <maswan> thom: Yes, this was a concern of mine, I didn't get up to the 25 planned cakes. :)
[07:33] <fabbione> ehehhe
[07:33] <Simira> maswan: you can come here to complete it on Tollef's birthday?
[07:34] <Simira> maswan: your hereby invited
[07:34] <maswan> Simira: If he/you turns up next sunday around here, you're welcome to cake. :)
[07:34] <maswan> Simira: When is it?
[07:34] <Simira> maswan: I think he's in Brssel next sunday. He's 25 on June 8th.
[07:35] <jdub> so fabbione 
[07:35] <jdub> the end result of all this stupidity
[07:35] <jdub> is that
[07:35] <jdub> ESPEAKER=localhost:2323 gst-launch-0.8 filesrc location="/usr/share/sounds/shutdown.wav" ! wavparse ! esdsink
[07:35] <jdub> works
[07:36] <jdub> :-)
[07:36] <jdub> it would have been easier to fix it in gstreamer
[07:36] <jdub> but also wrong
[07:36] <jdub> because deep down
[07:36] <jdub> we would have known that esound was a pile of shi-- oh, we already knew that
[07:36] <fabbione> ogra: really?
[07:36] <fabbione> ogra: you kidding.. 
[07:36] <thom> ogra: happy birthday dude!
[07:36] <ogra> thanks :)
[07:37] <fabbione> ogra: you look much younger than that
[07:37] <mvo_> hey ogra, happy birthday!
[07:37] <jdub> ogra: dude! happy birthday!
[07:37] <maswan> happy birthday!
[07:37] <ogra> hey, thanks all :=)
[07:37] <lamont> ogra: happy bday
[07:37] <doko> ogra: happy birthday!
[07:37] <Simira> ogra: happy birthday. Good to have some older, responsible people at this place...
[07:37] <Simira> uhm...
[07:38] <ogra> heh
[07:38] <Simira> *looks around and walks into a corner*
[07:38] <Mithrandir> ogra: congrats. :)
[07:38] <Simira> now, where was I... Rosetta
[07:41] <ogra> Mithrandir: you will be at fosdem ?
[07:42] <Mithrandir> yes
[07:42] <Mithrandir> you too?
[07:42] <ogra> i hope so... depends on my time .... but i was planning it
[07:53] <mvo_> mdz: around?
[07:53] <mdz> mvo_: mostly
[07:54] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ <- pretty web index now generated automatically
[07:54] <zul> sweet
[07:55] <thom> Kamion: nice
[07:57] <Nafallo> I think I've found a bug (not sure, so asking). my menu.lst has vmlinuz.old as default (named Previous) and vmlinuz-2.6.10-3-amd64-k8 as 3 and 4. bug?
[07:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: you pinged me yesterday about some utf8-migration-tool things?
[07:59] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes; what is the status of the package? I thought you had uploaded it, but I can't find it now
[08:00] <elmo> mdz: it's in universe
[08:00] <elmo> oh and FTBFS ;)
[08:00] <elmo> utf8-migration-tool |        0.1 | hoary/universe | source
[08:00] <mdz> ah, the FTBFS bit explains it
[08:04] <Mithrandir> bah, silly me
[08:04] <Mithrandir> it's broken anyhow, due to gdm and python's configparser disagreeing on the format of .ini files
[08:04] <Kamion> which reminds me, could I have system-config-kickstart in main now that it no longer FTBFS?
[08:06] <elmo> anastacia makes me cry ATM due to the kde half-in-main business
[08:06] <trulux> Try `head --help' for more information.
[08:06] <trulux> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.4.7-2_i386.deb (--unpack):
[08:06] <trulux>  subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
[08:07] <trulux> oops
[08:07] <smurfix> elmo: sync of yapps2 ?
[08:07] <elmo> Kamion: done
[08:08] <Kamion> thanks
[08:08] <Kamion> elmo: oh, and did you get my earlier sync request?
[08:14] <elmo> smurfix: done, sorry
[08:14] <elmo> Kamion: nope, done now
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo: ah, thanks
[08:18] <Kamion> mdz: oh, FYI, you shouldn't ever need to munge DI_TYPE again to get the newest of installer/daily-installer
[08:21] <elmo> I wish there was some way of doing a 'rootro', i.e. could read _any_ file, but not have root write/create/modify etc. privs
[08:21] <ogra> elmo: any idea where wine hides ? 
[08:21] <jdub> ogra: what are you looking for?
[08:21] <elmo>       wine | 0.0.20040914-1 | hoary/universe | source, i386
[08:22] <elmo> ogra: ?
[08:22] <mdz> Kamion: cool; it picks the one with the most recent timestamp?
[08:22] <elmo> that's what was synced today
[08:22] <ogra> elmo: i asked for a sync....and you said: done
[08:22] <elmo> ogra: ... ?
[08:23] <Kamion> mdz: whatever dpkg --compare-versions says is newest, actually
[08:23] <Kamion> (on the directory name)
[08:23] <elmo> oh
[08:23] <elmo> ogra: meh, sorry it went to the wrong directory.  really done now
[08:23] <Kamion> elmo: tell your editor to be read-only? 'sudo view' would do, for example ...
[08:23] <ogra> [14:54]   <ogra> elmo: please sync wine
[08:24] <ogra> [15:30]  <elmo> ogra: done
[08:24] <ogra> elmo: heh, ok...
[08:24] <elmo> Kamion: it's not for editing files, but backup related stuff
[08:24] <Kamion> elmo: ah
[08:25] <Kamion> elmo: mount --bind -o ro? :-)
[08:25] <Kamion> (that should actually work, I think ...)
[08:30] <mdz> chrooted into a read-only bind mount...
[08:31] <elmo> I'd eah
[08:31] <elmo> err
[08:31] <mdz> I bet root could remount it r/w though
[08:31] <Kamion> can you take CAP_SYS_MOUNT away from root?
[08:31] <Kamion> or whatever it is
[08:32] <mdz> should be possible
[08:32] <mdz> or you could drop to non-root and retain CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE or whatever
[08:33] <mdz> oh, hey, even better
[08:33] <mdz>    and directories, including ACL restrictions if [_POSIX_ACL]  is
[08:33] <mdz>    defined. Excluding DAC access covered by CAP_LINUX_IMMUTABLE. */
[08:33] <mdz> #define CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH  2
[08:33] <mdz> gah
[08:33] <Kamion> hm, you have to take away CAP_SYS_ADMIN judging from include/linux/capability.h
[08:33] <mdz> anyway, CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH should give you read-only on everything
[08:33] <Kamion> ah, much neater
[08:34] <elmo> so how would I give a user a capability?  I thought it was more process orientated
[08:34] <Kamion> you give it to the executable don't you?
[08:36] <mdz> yes, it's at the process level
[08:37] <mdz> typically you use a setuid wrapper, and drop privs from there
[08:37] <mdz> but there might be a PAM module to do it as well
[08:38] <Kamion> also setcap(8)
[08:38] <Kamion> although I guess that needs filesystem support
[08:40] <Kamion> getcap <executable> seems to say function not implemented for me
[08:41] <mvo_> ping carlos 
[08:42] <mjg59> Is power-management-interface in the archive yet?
[08:42] <ogra> mjg59: yup
[08:42] <mjg59> ogra: What section?
[08:42] <ogra> mjg59: omit the first dash...
[08:42] <mjg59> Ah!
[08:43] <mjg59> Hmm. Universe?
[08:43] <schweeb> universe
[08:43] <ogra> Section: universe/admin
[08:43] <mjg59> That probably needs to be rectified...
[08:44] <elmo> ... by someone seeding it, for starters
[08:44] <T-Bone> Kamion: where's the "please kill fabbione" button? :P
[08:44] <elmo> Kamion: anastacia wants to demote autopartkit - ok?
[08:44] <T-Bone> CONFIG_FUSION=m
[08:44] <mjg59> thom: Get powermanagement-interface seeded, y'bugger
[08:44] <T-Bone> somebody deserve some heavy trout slapping for that
[08:45] <zul> hey T-Bone 
[08:45] <mjg59> elmo: With luck, we'll have StD and StR for PPC
[08:46] <elmo> mjg59: I thought they didn't mix?
[08:47] <T-Bone> wow
[08:47] <T-Bone> Kamion: "Invalid Release file: no entry for restricted/binary-ia64/Packages.gz"
[08:47] <mjg59> elmo: The only real sticking point is in the framebuffer driver, and we've got a fixed one of those now (with luck)
[08:47] <T-Bone> end of installation :P
[08:47] <elmo> mjg59: sweet
[08:48] <mjg59> Fucking SMS spam
[08:51] <T-Bone> Kamion: any clue what's going on?
[08:51] <Kamion> elmo: yes, that's fine
[08:52] <Kamion> T-Bone: one sec, doing other urgent stuff then I'll look
[08:52] <T-Bone> ok
[08:55] <sivang> mjg59: I get it all the time..:-/
[08:55] <sivang> mjg59: *so* annoying
[08:55] <elmo>    o console-keymaps-dec
[08:56] <elmo>    o discover1-data-udeb
[08:56] <elmo>    o discover1-udeb
[08:56] <elmo> Kamion: them too?
[08:56] <zul> mjg59: oh yeah your acpi stuff that you sent me does cleanly apply to vanilla source ill massage it tonight
[08:56] <Kamion> elmo: yep
[08:56] <mjg59> zul: Cool, thanks
[08:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: hmm, apparently the restricted Packages file is empty on ia64 so my fix for the live CD helpfully removed it; I'll see if I can fix that
[08:57] <elmo> Kamion: tnx
[08:58] <Kamion> I'll just conditionalise the removal on CDIMAGE_LIVE for now
[08:58] <T-Bone> Kamion: ok. I'll re-fix kernel asap too. Sadly i can't go up to the elilo stage, anyway :P
[08:59] <Kamion> T-Bone: erm, the current kernel has CONFIG_FUSION=y for all ia64
[08:59] <Kamion> 2.6.10-19
[08:59] <T-Gone> Kamion: the kernel i just booted has it =m
[09:00] <zul> oh i suck at wiki
[09:00] <T-Gone> Kamion: 2,6.10-3-itanium-smp built on Feb 15 ("-3"??)
[09:00] <Kamion> T-Gone: that's too old, where did you get that?
[09:00] <T-Gone> Kamion: is d-i kernel updated?
[09:00] <Kamion> oh, maybe this morning's CD build doesn't have the newer kernel yet
[09:00] <T-BOne> Kamion: i got it 20mn ago when rsyncing :)
[09:00] <Kamion> ok, rebuilding
[09:01] <T-BOne> Kamion: it's noted as being built Feb 15 14:25 UTC
[09:01] <Kamion> no need to diagnose further :)
[09:01] <T-BOne> i'm quite surprised that such a recent build has such an old kernel :)
[09:01] <Kamion> that's because I deliberately set it back
[09:01] <Kamion> this morning's build does not yet quite have everything reset to normality
[09:02] <Kamion> the one I'm doing now should
[09:03] <Kamion> hmm, although according to this it was using -18
[09:03] <Kamion> well, whatever, I'll rebuild for the Release file fix anyway
[09:03] <Kamion> T-BOne: "-3" is the module ABI
[09:03] <Kamion> you should know this, as somebody on the kernel team ... :)
[09:03] <T-BOne> yeah I thought so but wasn't sure
[09:03] <T-BOne> ;)
[09:04] <T-BOne> (and past a certain hungryness, my brain doesn't compute ;)
[09:07] <mjg59> Hmm. pmi capabilities says I can suspend and hibernate, but the logout menu isn't giving me that option
[09:07] <zul> Kamion: heh we didnt know this :)
[09:11] <mjg59> thom: Around?
[09:13] <trulux> tritium: ping
[09:13] <trulux> tritium: there? new paper revision for you, also doubts on how to wrote matrix definitions with latex
[09:14] <tritium> trulux, I'm here
[09:14] <trulux> I need to make a one for explain further the LaPadula MAC model
[09:14] <trulux> tritium: :D heya!
[09:14] <trulux> tritium: ok, dcc'ing, wait
[09:14] <tritium> ok
[09:16] <trulux> tritium: here we go! :)
[09:16] <trulux> fabbione: ping
[09:16] <fabbione> trulux: pong
[09:16] <trulux> fabbione: heya! I was talking to pitti on the kernel abi firmware stuff
[09:17] <trulux> fabbione: I want to make the firmware stuff available for the hardened kernels
[09:17] <trulux> fabbione: can you redirect me to somewhere with documentation on how ubuntu handles it?
[09:17] <fabbione> trulux: it's in the kernel source
[09:17] <fabbione> Documentation/something
[09:20] <trulux> fabbione: nah, that doesn't fill my needed knowledge and info. bar
[09:20] <trulux> fabbione: I *need* to know how *you* handle it
[09:22] <fabbione> i do not handle anything dude
[09:22] <fabbione> read the firmware class documentation
[09:22] <fabbione> that's all it is used
[09:22] <trulux> fabbione: then what do you do with the packages? ;D
[09:22] <fabbione> trulux: what do you mean?
[09:23] <trulux> fabbione: pitti commented to me that you handle the firmware pkgs, and the hardened kernel packages didn't have it
[09:23] <trulux> and that was a thing I could fix
[09:23] <trulux> at least from the upstream side, but I lack of the info. on how ubuntu handles the independent firmware
[09:23] <Kamion> /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/
[09:23] <Kamion> or /lib/hotplug/firmware/, or I think somewhere else
[09:23] <fabbione> trulux: no, i think you really misunderstood what pitti said
[09:25] <trulux> fabbione: then put me on the right way, what's up with it?
[09:25] <fabbione> trulux: pitti told me that hard kernel couldn't load firmware
[09:25] <fabbione> that's all i know
[09:26] <trulux> fabbione: oh, that's quite different then, OK
[09:26] <fabbione> i must go now
[09:26] <trulux> fabbione: so, he didn't exposed details?
[09:26] <trulux> ok
[09:26] <trulux> have a nice time
[09:26] <fabbione> good night
[09:27] <T-Bone> Kamion: how long does it take to rebuild the ISO?
[09:28] <zul> night fabbione 
[09:28] <rburton> is the current hoary livecd usable?
[09:34] <zul> mmmm....skittles
[09:34] <mjg59> Whee!
[09:34] <T-Bone> lol
[09:34] <mjg59> Haha
[09:35] <mjg59> T-Bone: I'm only testing that it doesn't break x86 at the moment - I don't have a Mac to test
[09:35] <T-Bone> ah
[09:36] <T-Bone> unfortunately i don't have a mac laptop (yet) either
[09:36] <mjg59> Heh. Newworld desktop is also good.
[09:36] <T-Bone> errr. Unless it screws everything, which I can't allow either ;)
[09:37] <T-Bone> i've never used susp/res feature TBH. Are there risks for the fs?
[09:39] <rcaskey_> Tbone: my g3 ibook started to play nice yesterday
[09:39] <rcaskey_> it did fail one to resume alst night though
[09:40] <edd> mjg59: Kinnison ever around these parts?
[09:40] <T-Bone> rcaskey_: ok. My question is precisely "what happens on failure? Is my root filesystem at risk?" :)
[09:41] <T-Bone> if it's just a crash i don't care. If it can screw things enough to kill journaled FS, i *do* care ;)
[09:41] <mjg59> edd: Not usually - #debian-uk is a better bet
[09:43] <rcaskey_> T-Bone: I don't know any particulars, I just know a reboot made it work fine.
[09:43] <T-Bone> ok
[09:43] <T-Bone> svenl: ping?
[09:44] <svenl> T-Bone: pong.
[09:45] <T-Bone> svenl: still willing to be the ppc porter? ;)
[09:45] <svenl> T-Bone: yep.
[09:45] <T-Bone> svenl: then there's work for you ;)
[09:45] <svenl> T-Bone: but i will be offline the next two days.
[09:46] <rcaskey_> T-Bone: yesterday was when I knew I was a dork, when I was testing to see if my laptops were suspending properly and I was using two different ones from the cna
[09:46] <svenl> T-Bone: ah ? 
[09:46] <rcaskey_> err can
[09:46] <T-Bone> http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/ppcpatches <- this is a list of patches that needs to be merged in our 2.6.10 line
[09:46] <T-Bone> rcaskey_: ok
[09:47] <T-Bone> svenl: 2.6.10 is in 'bugfixes only' mode, and these patches fall in that area as it seems
[09:47] <svenl> T-Bone: T-Bone ok.
[09:47] <svenl> T-Bone: what is the deadline ? 
[09:47] <T-Bone> svenl: yesterday? :)
[09:47] <svenl> T-Bone: as said, i will be offline tomorrow andfriday, so this WE should be cool.
[09:48] <T-Bone> svenl: roger that. This week end will do
[09:48] <svenl> T-Bone: would a patch for the pegasos gigabit ethernet controler be considered also for inclusion ? 
[09:48] <T-Bone> hmm
[09:48] <T-Bone> I think it would go into 2.6.11 instead. Pegasos is not yet supported
[09:50] <svenl> T-Bone: bah.
[09:50] <svenl> T-Bone: fabbione told me most of the pegasos patches are in, and ubuntu mostly works on it.
[09:51] <svenl> T-Bone: but in d-i the loading of the module fails for some missing symbols.
[09:51] <T-Bone> then it's definitely a no go
[09:51] <svenl> T-Bone: you have a pegasos even, you could try it yourself :)
[09:51] <T-Bone> no breakage before hoary releases
[09:51] <T-Bone> sure :)
[09:51] <rcaskey_> Why would anyone want a Pegasos machine?
[09:52] <T-Bone> rcaskey_: it's actually an interesting concept.
[09:52] <rcaskey_> T-Bone: what is?
[09:52] <svenl> T-Bone: huh ? You mean we know it is broken, there is probably an easy fix, but we are not going to fix it ? 
[09:52] <T-Bone> and it has a few niceties
[09:52] <svenl> T-Bone: it used to work in the 2.6.8 ubuntu kernels.
[09:52] <ajmitch> morning
[09:52] <T-Bone> svenl: no. I mean I won't merge a patch that introduces any (known) breakage
[09:52] <svenl> T-Bone: you are not listening.
[09:53] <T-Bone> svenl: feel free to send it to me, i'll test it and try to debug it, but i won't merge it
[09:53] <svenl> T-Bone: or i am speaking klingon or something.
 T-Bone: but in d-i the loading of the module fails for some missing symbols.
[09:53] <T-Bone> this is breakage to me
[09:53] <svenl> T-Bone: *the current ubuntu 2.6.10 kernel is broken*.
[09:53] <T-Bone> so you must be speaking Klingon ;)
[09:53] <svenl> T-Bone: the patch is already in there.
[09:53] <svenl> T-Bone: or the module support or whatever.
[09:53] <svenl> T-Bone: just it is borken.
[09:53] <svenl> broken even.
[09:53] <Kamion> T-Bone: about an hour for all four architectures
[09:54] <Kamion> T-Bone: (it's built now)
[09:54] <svenl> T-Bone: what i am speaking is a patch to fix that breakage.
[09:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: ia64 is built?
[09:54] <Kamion> [09:54] <Kamion> Wed Feb 16 20:00:54 GMT 2005
[09:54] <Kamion> [...] 
[09:54] <T-Bone> svenl: ah ok. Well then it might be merged then ;)
[09:54] <Kamion> [09:54] <Kamion> Wed Feb 16 20:50:31 GMT 2005
[09:54] <Kamion> T-Bone: yes
[09:54] <svenl> T-Bone: in a module which will never be loaded on any arch that has not a marvell discovery III northbridge.
[09:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: yay!
[09:55] <svenl> T-Bone: will see next week what i can do about this.
[09:55] <Kamion> T-Bone: /dists/hoary/restricted/binary-ia64/Packages is definitely back now
[09:55] <T-Bone> svenl: ok. The patches i listed are top priority for they fix bugs on macs
[09:55] <Mitario> hello everyone
[09:55] <T-Bone> Kamion: cool. I'm rsyncing
[09:56] <Mitario> I was wondering wether Ubuntu has some kind of changelog writing policy or package description policy
[09:56] <svenl> T-Bone: i can only test them on my ibook though, or maybe on my pegasos with the 7447A cpu.
[09:56] <T-Bone> svenl: test on whatever you can. As long as it works for you, i'll take care of testing on whatever I can on my side as well
[09:56] <Kamion> Mitario: not explicit, but we kind of hope for common sense and slap people who're unclear
[09:56] <svenl> T-Bone: BTW, what is this pmac only policy ? I think it would be a good thing for ubuntu to support the pegasos in hoary.
[09:57] <svenl> T-Bone: especially as it is almost there.
[09:57] <Mitario> Kamion, hehe :)
[09:57] <svenl> T-Bone: and there may be chances for mass ubuntu on pegasos install if it happens.
[09:57] <T-Bone> svenl: i'm not the one deciding that
[09:57] <T-Bone> svenl: ask the release managers
[09:57] <Mitario> but do we think changelog should be directed at the end user? or for fellow package maintainers/overall techies
[09:57] <svenl> T-Bone: who is it ? Kamion ? 
[09:57] <Kamion> no
[09:58] <svenl> Kamion: hehe :)
[09:58] <Kamion> there is no pmac-only policy, but obviously making sure stuff that works keeps working has a higher priority than supporting new stuff
[09:58] <Kamion> I don't see a problem with integrating safe patches that are non-crackful
[09:58] <Kamion> but you have to accept that the definition of safe gets very strict as we get closer to release
[09:58] <svenl> Kamion: even to the point that it takes me 10 minutes to explain i propose a patch that fixes a breakage in a orthogonal module to any pmac hardware ? 
[09:59] <svenl> Kamion: i understand.
[09:59] <dholbach> re
[09:59] <Kamion> and the installer experience must be good
[09:59] <metalikop> Is there a problem with dput or have I broken something?
[09:59] <Mitario> hmm, does anyone here think that it's usefull to show the current "tech" changelogs in update-manager?
[09:59] <svenl> Kamion: i intent to fix pegasos OF for yaboot support tomorrow, and then pegasos support should be there without the grub2 hack i resorted.
[10:00] <svenl> or whatever, i let you work, more on that later.
[10:01] <Kamion> svenl: will it be possible to install yaboot automatically, i.e. nvram writing from userspace?
[10:01] <Mitario> I would love to see nice formatted changelogs entries such as the mac os x software updates have, but that's just my opinion
[10:01] <Kamion> I'd be so happy with that
[10:01] <T-Bone> svenl: what you have to understand, is that as the release time gets closer, we (kernel leaders for instance) are far less prone to take time to figure out whether your patch, being orthogonal or not, *is safe* (according to us). And you also have to understand that if we merge something *supposedly safe* that eventually breaks some corner case (Murphy's law is everywhere), it'll be too late to fix it.
[10:01] <Kamion> "install" => "make bootable with"
[10:01] <Kamion> svenl: it seems to me, though, that T-Bone simply misunderstood early on and thought you were saying that your patch introduced some breakage
[10:01] <T-Bone> Kamion: right. My bad.
[10:02] <zul> night mvo
[10:02] <Mitario> mvo_, btw replied to your email :)
[10:02] <Mitario> send a new one even ;)
[10:02] <Mitario> gn!
[10:03] <mvo_> Mitario: oh, I'll have a look then :)
[10:03] <Mitario> mvo_, hehe ok
[10:03] <Mitario> mvo_, i have some ideas/stuff I'd like to discuss, but we'll do that tomorrow then :)
[10:03] <mvo_> Mitario: I uploaded two mockups for #6631
[10:04] <Mitario> mvo_, ah cool. where?
[10:04] <mvo_> Mitario: if you have time tomorrow that would be nice. I'm around all day. 
[10:04] <mvo_> Mitario: I attached them to the bugreport
[10:04] <Mitario> ok
[10:04] <dholbach> mvo_: about to go?
[10:05] <metalikop> Could someone possibly help me out with dput?  I'm experiencing an odd issue I haven't had with other repos.
[10:05] <mvo_> dholbach: yeah, going to bed (or rather have a bath first, then go to bad). I debugged the ppp stuff in g-s-t. I need to wash aways that perl feeling ;)
[10:05] <dholbach> mvo_: you rock! :-)
[10:05] <zul> ooh...sacrilege
[10:05] <mvo_> Mitario: what is your idea about? Maybe you tell me so that I can think about it a bit
[10:05] <dholbach> mvo_: drink a beer and make the perl-age go away :-)
[10:06] <svenl> Kamion: nope.
[10:06] <Mitario> mvo_, about some layout changes with the changelog and description formatting and such
[10:06] <svenl> T-Bone: what good is it for me to help out on powerpc kernels, if you don't thrust me, and it is clear by your attitude toward me that you don't thrust me.
[10:07] <Mitario> mvo_, IMO the current tabs don't look 'nice' for a newbie end-user
[10:07] <svenl> err, not attitude, but the way you speak to me, both yesterday and today.
[10:07] <Mitario> mvo_, well, anyways, the changelog should be formatted a bit, and maybe we could merge the description and changelog into one page
[10:07] <mvo_> Mitario: sounds interessting
[10:07] <sulkd> you want him to "thrust you" in exchange for kernel work? :D
[10:07] <T-Bone> svenl: you have a problem with leadership maybe? I never said i don't trust you. I said we had a policy, and answered your questions by respecting that policy.
[10:08] <svenl> Kamion: err, i mean nvram setting will not be fixing tomorrow, too dangerous right now since the.
[10:08] <Mitario> mvo_, maybe i'll just branch svn now, and go playing on a bit in my own branch :)
[10:08] <T-Bone> if you disagree with that policy, that's up to you.
[10:08] <mvo_> Mitario: formating a GtkTextView is a bit of a pain (creating the tagtable and stuff) :)
[10:08] <svenl> T-Bone: yes, but you imply that i will break that policy before i even have a chance to do anything.
[10:08] <Mitario> mvo_, oh and i've send you an e-mail about future of update-manager releases and such
[10:08] <mvo_> Mitario: go for it, but tell me where I can check the result :)
[10:08] <T-Bone> svenl: no. Again, you asked me about including a patch, and I answered you what it takes to include a patch.
[10:08] <Mitario> mvo_, yeah ok :)
[10:09] <Mitario> mvo_, have you got my second mail?
[10:09] <svenl> T-Bone: this is no leadership issue, it is patronizing attitude on your part, and i believe it is against the ubuntu code of conduct even if i read it right.
[10:09] <mvo_> not, not yet
[10:09] <Mitario> mvo@canonical.com?
[10:09] <mvo_> michael.vogt@canonical.com
[10:09] <T-Bone> svenl: since i misunderstood what you said first, i told you i couldn't include your patch. That was wrong of me, and I corrected myself afterwards.
[10:09] <svenl> T-Bone: you didn't even listen to what i said and said probably not.
[10:09] <Mitario> ahhh
[10:09] <mvo_> Mitario: :)
[10:09] <svenl> T-Bone: exactly, you misunderstood because you didn't listen, and had a negative a priori.
[10:10] <svenl> T-Bone: this was clear in the way you spoke to me yesterday and how you reacted today.
[10:10] <Mitario> mvo_, ok, sent :)
[10:10] <sulkd> svenl, dude.. it's like this in any opensource project.. it's not what you got, it's who you know.. cliques.. so you can either try to work your way into one, or fight it and lose..
[10:10] <sulkd> svenl, sad but it's the way it is
[10:11] <zul> svenl: send me your patches and ill have a look ok?
[10:11] <svenl> sulkd: i must not have read the same code of conduct as you did.
[10:11] <mvo_> Mitario: got it, thanks
[10:12] <mvo_> night all
[10:12] <zul> svenl: ok enough send me your patches and i will have a look at them if you dont mind. zul@gentoo.org thx
[10:12] <Kamion> svenl: nvram setting> ok ... as I've probably said before, I think that's a pretty major usability problem in any Pegasos installer right now; but I realise that there are hardware constraints
[10:12] <sulkd> svenl, it's not in the code of conduct.. it's imprinted in all those guys' insecurities and need for having a support system made up of their friends
[10:15] <lamont> sulkd: I'll have to disagree with you on that
[10:15] <lamont> given a patch, we're happy to review it for inclusion
[10:16] <T-Bone> we are just being picky on whether to actually include it or not, depending on the timeline (as I understand it, of course)
[10:17] <zul> right i have to go home
[10:17] <HrdwrBoB> that said building friendships and trust is not a bad thing at all
[10:18] <svenl> sulkd: bah, i have known these guys like you said sinc a long time, even T-Bone 
[10:19] <svenl> Kamion: well, the nvram thing is complicated, i have an idea to fix it, but right now touching the flash, which may kill the firmware, is a big nono.
[10:20] <svenl> Kamion: and seriously setting a couple of env variables by hand is not all that complicated, even my grand-mother could do it.
[10:20] <Kamion> svenl: at nCipher, where I last worked, that got solved a long time ago; there are two regions in flash which get written separately, so no individual power failure can kill both regions
[10:21] <lamont> the question right now on accepting things in the kernel is "is this a new feature?"  If the answer is yes, then it probably waits until after hoary ships
[10:21] <Kamion> svenl: it's a lot more thought than any one of Ubuntu's other supported architectures; remember I have to justify every new question the installer asks to Mark. :)
[10:21] <svenl> Kamion: sure, and this is how i want to do it, too, but as you said, no major change before a new release.
[10:22] <svenl> Kamion: well, compared to having to install a half working grub2, and hand typing the grub commands by hand, writing a note for an obscure subarch should not really be a problem :)
[10:24] <svenl> Kamion: but like said, if i reach the point where pegasos is not officially supported, but is installable with an unnofficial 5 lines HOWTO, then i am happy.
[10:25] <Kamion> right, and for the record I think pegasos is probably on this side of the "supportable" line with a bit of work, although I wouldn't be happy to say that about all powerpc subarches
[10:25] <Kamion> I'm not really very happy with the mkvmlinuz approach though, it's a lot of space usage on the CD
[10:25] <svenl> Kamion: the mkvmlinuz is a lot of space usage on the CD ? 
[10:25] <Kamion> with a single CD we cannot afford to splurge out megabytes on different kernel formats
[10:26] <svenl> Kamion: ah, you mean the lot of different kernels on the CD. Why do you think i am going to fix the OF ?
[10:26] <Kamion> we have one CD, and roughly the same selection of software on each
[10:26] <Kamion> powerpc is the biggest by far, which means that it acts to constrain the amount of software that we can include on *all* our CDs
[10:26] <svenl> Kamion: but the only thing i am arguing for is including the mkvmlinuz support file in the kernel-image, not using them to build thousands of CDs.
[10:26] <Kamion> thus adding more kernel formats to the CD means that we'd be reducing the amount that can go into Ubuntu CDs in general
[10:27] <Kamion> svenl: I certainly don't have a problem with supporting all sorts of stuff for netboot
[10:27] <Kamion> physical restrictions mean that we do have to be pretty careful about the CD though :)
[10:27] <svenl> Kamion: so, see, exactly what i was arguing yesterday.
[10:27] <Kamion> ok, no problem then
[10:27] <Kamion> (at least from my point of view as installer/cdimage guy)
[10:28] <svenl> Well, it is not all that easy, since it needs some modifications of the kernel build stuff.
[10:28] <svenl> which could be problematic, but well.
[10:28] <svenl> Maybe it would be possible by splitting another package with the object files, this would be the least disruptive.
[10:29] <svenl> Kamion: and notice that i am working to get those object files included by default by kernel-package in debian.
[10:29] <svenl> ok, have to go now, train will be early tomorrow.
[10:31] <Kamion> svenl: *nod*
[10:35] <daniels> Mithrandir: i moderated it through
[10:35] <daniels> Kamion: hang when you try to view the log?
[10:35] <Mithrandir> daniels: yeah, I have an account now, thanks.
[10:35] <daniels> cool
[10:35] <daniels> who created it
[10:36] <daniels> ?
[10:36] <Mithrandir> infty, I think
[10:36] <Mithrandir> yeah, adconrad@tycho is the sender
[10:37] <Kamion> daniels: hm what?
[10:40] <daniels> Kamion: jane's weird crash
[10:40] <daniels> Mithrandir: cool
[10:41] <svenl> daniels: BTW, on the subject of pegasos support, i needed to tell it to use the Option "BusType" "PCI", apart from that everything worked fine.
[10:41] <daniels> svenl: cool
[10:42] <svenl> daniels: could it be possible to set the Option "BusType" "PCI" automatically in some (maybe post-release) future ? 
[10:42] <Kamion> daniels: I didn't actually look at that log ... I think it was Keybuk doing most of that debugging
[10:44] <infinity> What sorts of hours does pitti keep?
[10:44] <daniels> Kamion: aha
[10:45] <daniels> svenl: no
[10:45] <HrdwrBoB> \] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] 
[10:45] <HrdwrBoB> hhhhhhhhhhjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
[10:45] <HrdwrBoB> jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
[10:45] <Kamion> infinity: German business hours, more or less, I think
[10:45] <toresbe> HrdwrBoB: interesting...
[10:45] <ogra> infinity: UTC+1
[10:45] <dredg> HrdwrBoB: here kitty kitty
[10:46] <infinity> Hrm.. Kay.
[10:46] <infinity> I need to strangle him a little bit when he's around.
[10:47] <daniels> svenl: you should never need to set that option; if you do, something is badly busted with your agpgart and needs to be fixed there.  i've never heard of someone needing to use that option in ubuntu before now.
[10:48] <Kamion> infinity: heh
[11:02] <T-Bone> hmm, i'll have to add the cpu frequency integer overflow on g5 fix to the next kernel upload as well
[11:04] <dholbach> daniels: what can i do about this:  cd python && xvfb-run -a python setup.py clean      [11:08] <daniels> dholbach: not a lot
[11:08] <daniels> dholbach: ('fix xorg')
[11:08] <dholbach> daniels: Kamion said there already was a fix
[11:08] <ogra> daniels: dont say that to loud.... last time he fixed gtkmm to try a coaster build
[11:09] <ogra> ;)
[11:09] <dholbach> (12:43:41) Kamion:   * Remove spurious quotes from variable expansions of $XVFBARGS and
[11:09] <dholbach> (12:43:41) Kamion:     $LISTENTCP in xvfb-run.  Thanks to Jeff Lessem for the patch!
[11:09] <dholbach> (12:43:41) Kamion:     (Closes:# 286181)
[11:12] <daniels> dholbach: there's a fix, yeah, but uploading the entirety of xorg for that one fix seems a bit harsh
[11:12] <daniels> i haven't had time to get to it right now
[11:12] <dholbach> daniels: yes of course
[11:12] <dholbach> daniels: ok... just wanted to make sure you knew
[11:13] <Kamion> dholbach: although I have to say I'm not totally sure that that fixes your bug
[11:14] <dholbach> Kamion: well, it's in the "clean"-part of diacanvas2 - so it must have worked a couple of times :-)
[11:14] <daniels> Kamion: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5531
[11:18] <srbaker> is it a safe day to upgrade to hoary?
[11:18] <srbaker> from a fresh install of warty?
[11:18] <jdub> sure!
[11:19] <sivang> srbaker: I even installed from hoary to hoary :)
[11:19] <kent> srbaker, just answere no to the quistion about world war, and you should be fine. 
[11:19] <srbaker> well, i did a hoary->hoary upgrade earlier today, and all of my icons broke.
[11:19] <srbaker> and my gnome theme settings
[11:20] <srbaker> maybe it was just me
[11:21] <Kamion> dholbach: er ... not diacanvas2, I mean the xvfb-run thing
[11:23] <svenl> daniels: the pegasos agp is a pci-x bus disguised as agp, so yes, i need it :/
[11:24] <svenl> daniels: furthermore, every motherboard without agpgart module would need it too.
[11:24] <daniels> svenl: not really, in that case it will just fail to initialise agp and fall back
[11:24] <dholbach> Kamion: ah ok
[11:24] <daniels> honestly dude, you know I've seen a lot of X problems, right, and this is the first time I've ever, ever, seen anyone need to force PCI mode on a Radeon
[11:24] <svenl> daniels: debian's XFree86 know how to fall back on pcigart when there is no agpgart, but x.org simply fails.
[11:25] <daniels> svenl: er, are you sure?  or is it that the kernel here is pretending to offer agpgart, but it's broken?
[11:25] <svenl> daniels: you never saw X running on a kernel where agpgart was not present ? 
[11:25] <svenl> T-None: night ...
[11:25] <daniels> svenl: actually, I have
[11:25] <T-None> night
[11:25] <svenl> daniels: yes, i am pretty sure.
[11:26] <svenl> daniels: the x.org code may fail for those.
[11:26] <daniels> svenl: i will try it out and come bcak, but i think you're very, very wrong
[11:26] <svenl> daniels: well, i can assure you it fails on pegasos.
[11:26] <svenl> daniels: if you don't want to fix it this near the release, i understand though.
[11:27] <daniels> i don't have the time to be chasing stuff like this up right now for hoary, sorry
[11:27] <svenl> daniels: understood, this is why i asked in some future.
[11:27] <svenl> daniels: post-hoary and such.
[11:27] <svenl> ok, night all and good hacking.
[11:28] <daniels> sure, I'll look into it, but I think it's agpgart here that's broekken, not xorg
[11:31] <Kamion> argh
[11:31] <Kamion> elmo: please add amd64 to lilo-installer in PaS
[11:38] <enrico> Hello.  Is perl in the hoary build-essential, or do I have to build-depend on it?
[11:39] <Kamion> it happens to be build-essential, but only indirectly due to other stuff; if you're using perl (as opposed to perl-base) directly then it's good practice to b-d on i
[11:39] <Kamion> it
[11:39] <Kamion> enrico: is it just /usr/bin/perl you need, or do you need a batch of modules too?
[11:40] <mxpxpod> is anyone having problems with polypaudio bailing out with an assertion?
[11:40] <enrico> Kamion: /usr/bin/perl and File::Basename
[11:40] <enrico> I can do without File::Basename, thoug
[11:40] <Kamion> perl-modules: /usr/share/perl/5.8.4/File/Basename.pm
[11:40] <seb128> elmo: libgtkhtml2 sync please
[11:40] <Kamion> enrico: ok, so you should build-depend on perl I thiknk
[11:40] <Kamion> think
[11:41] <enrico> Kamion: if it does not need File::Basename, can I do with what's in perl-base?
[11:41] <Kamion> enrico: sure, but why bother? extra build-deps aren't bad
[11:41] <Kamion> and using more modules to make your code clearer is a good thing
[11:41] <enrico> Ok, I quite agree with you
[11:42] <enrico> Kamion: the ubuntu-doc packages are in a really good shape, then!
[11:42] <Kamion> the explicitly build-essential things are libc-dev, gcc, g++, make, dpkg-dev, same as in Debian; there are a couple of extra bits in our buildd chroots
[11:42] <Kamion> cool
[11:43] <enrico> Kamion: the package sources is the trunk of the docteam repository (wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamRepository)
[11:43] <enrico> you get the trunk and debuild it
[11:43] <Kamion> not right now :)
[11:44] <enrico> well, anytime you want :)
[11:44] <enrico> it's there for you
[11:44] <Kamion> ok
[11:52] <mxpxpod> amu: ping
[11:55] <amu> mxpxpod: peng
[11:55] <mxpxpod> amu: have you upgraded to polypaudio?
[11:56] <amu> nope running kde atm 
[11:56] <mxpxpod> blah.. you're no help
[11:56] <daniels> arts, yo
[11:56] <amu> mxpxpod: :)  
[11:58] <mxpxpod> amu: hmm, I need someone to test this
[11:58] <mxpxpod> amu: pa keeps bailing out on my machine
[11:58] <amu> mxpxpod: did you tried my config? 
[11:58] <lamont> fire call
[11:58] <mxpxpod> amu: no, I talked to benh and figured out my problems