[12:00] <amu> mxpxpod: letme check, i'll restart
[12:01] <amu> heh that's also a solution :) 
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[12:01] <Mitario> hi everyone
[12:04] <sladen> Kamion: after/before the d-i Other Installed OS detection foo, what would need doing to add a ''reinstate grub MBR'' option.  I've answered two in the last 24hours
[12:04] <Kamion> sladen: that sounds like what rescue mode is for
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[12:04] <sladen> Kamion: rescue more on the CD?
[12:05] <sladen> Kamion: rescue mode on the CD?
[12:05] <Kamion> yes, boot with 'rescue'
[12:05] <Kamion> not particularly documented yet :)
[12:05] <Kamion> ('rescue' instead of e.g. 'linux')
[12:06] <Kamion> a "reinstate grub MBR" option in the way you're probably thinking is likely to be extremely hard; I think rescue mode is about the only viable way to do it
[12:07] <Kamion> so the mini-howto would be: start rescue mode, pick your root partition, run "grub-install '(hd0)'"
[12:07] <Kamion> or similar
[12:07] <Kamion> it does LVM, too; not software RAID yet
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[12:08] <sladen> Kamion: excellent, typicall one-step ahead :)
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[12:09] <Kamion> sladen: it does lack documentation though, and there are still a number of plausible UI improvements
=== Kamion ponders an LVM-on-RAID test installation
[12:11] <sladen> is it on the warty CDs, or only on the recent Hoary builds?
[12:12] <Kamion> only recent hoary
[12:12] <Kamion> and I made a few UI fixes recently so you really want very recent hoary
[12:12] <Kamion> elmo: please sync partman-lvm 30
[12:12] <Kamion> (only translation fixes)
[12:17] <thully> Hi - I have about 30 reported bugs, however I don't think I'll be testing Hoary anymore (just not enough time, and I want something more stable) - is there anything special I should do on bugzilla?
[12:17] <Kamion> would probably be a good idea to leave a note about that on any of the bugs that are in state NEEDINFO
[12:28] <thully> OK
[12:30] <Kamion> two physical partitions -> RAID1 -> LVM -> {ext3 /, jfs /home}
=== Kamion wonders how much more complex an installed system he can construct using hoary and still get it to boot
=== lamont back
[12:42] <Kamion> nope, failed to install lilo :(
[12:42] <Kamion> Fatal: map file must be on the boot RAID partition
[12:42] <Kamion> gee thanks
[12:45] <Kamion> ah, works better if I install to /dev/sda
[12:45] <bean601> how's the live version run?
[12:46] <Kamion> haven't tested today's but it's getting fairly good now
[12:48] <jdub> had a good powerpc install last night
[12:48] <jdub> though x detection was b0rk
[12:48] <jdub> oh wait!
[12:48] <jdub> i have daniels in the living room!
[12:48] <jdub> MU HA HA!
[12:49] <daniels> OH NO YOU DON'T
[12:49] <jdub> i have the keys.
[12:49] <daniels> yeah, but I can still take a good run and dive off the balcony
[12:50] <dholbach> jdub: could you please get some neighbours with cameras out on the street, please?
=== lamont tries to remember which file it was that forced the MAC<->ifname mapping
[12:53] <ogra> ifmap
[12:54] <Kamion> lamont: /etc/iftab
[12:54] <ogra> oops, sorry
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[01:00] <thom> mjg59: am now
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[01:08] <sladen> Kamion: In the wild, I've seen RAID on RAID and  RAID /on/ LVM+LVM  :
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[01:18] <ludi> What are the reasons why ubuntu ships with firefox instead of epiphany?
[01:19] <mjg59> thom: What packages do I need to be offered a suspend option from the logout menu?
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[01:20] <dholbach> hi ludi, you can just install epiphany-browser
[01:24] <ludi> dholbach: yes, but why is firefox the default instead of epiphany?
[01:24] <thom> mjg59: i wish i knew; i don't have one
[01:24] <dholbach> ludi: there was a long discussion about that back on the sounder-list, if i recall correctly
[01:24] <thom> mjg59: certainly powermanagement-interface
[01:25] <dholbach> ludi: you're free to use whatever you want :-)
[01:25] <sladen> dholbach: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-January/thread.html#3371 for reference
[01:25] <tritium> thom, is that available in the archives
[01:25] <tritium> ?
[01:26] <ludi> debian's gnome sees fit to keep epiphany as the default browser...
[01:26] <thom> tritium: in universe, yes
[01:26] <thom> ludi: we chose to use firefox; it's more targetted and known in our target audience
[01:27] <mjg59> thom: I've got pmi, but no cool logout prompt action (current Hoary)
[01:27] <tritium> thom, ah, found it.
[01:27] <mjg59> But mailing list stuff suggests that it ought to be there, so I'm confused
[01:27] <thom> mjg59: yes
[01:27] <thom> mjg59: seb is the person to ask
[01:27] <ludi> that's a big dissapointment for me.
[01:27] <thom> i just told him how to generate the events
[01:28] <thom> ludi: why? we support epiphany, it's just not the default
[01:28] <dholbach> ludi: don't let the choice of others disappoint you - you *still* have the choice
[01:28] <mjg59> thom: Ok, I'll bitch at him
[01:29] <HrdwrBoB> ludi: ephiphany is still in supported software
[01:29] <mjg59> thom: FWIW, PPC kernel with all the crack-tastick patches builds fine on x86. I'm just about to check that it /works/
[01:29] <thom> mjg59: rockin'
[01:29] <ludi> yes, but it feels like a rejection
[01:30] <tritium> So did ubuntu love day fall through?
[01:30] <thom> ludi: eh? howso? we have to pick something to be standard
[01:30] <HrdwrBoB> ludi: someone is always going to be rejected
[01:30] <farruinn> tritium: it's tomorrow, right?
[01:30] <mdz> it's just begun
[01:30] <tritium> farruinn, but it's already the 17th in some parts of the world
[01:30] <farruinn> oh, right
[01:32] <ludi> firefox wins the popularity contest
[01:32] <ludi> but epiphany may be technically a better browser in the gnome desktop
[01:33] <ludi> it's like choosing the "pretty" blonde instead of the charming brunette...
[01:35] <mjg59> thom: Ok, my crack patches don't prevent x86 from booting
[01:36] <thom> well, that's a start
=== thom boggles idly at ludi
[01:36] <mjg59> thom: And it suspends to disk fine
[01:36] <thom> mjg59: good good
[01:37] <mjg59> Currently resuming...
[01:37] <mjg59> Fuck, no
[01:37] <mjg59> No error messages, straight resume
[01:37] <mjg59> Arse
[01:37] <mantiena> mjg59, Fuck ? Yes !
[01:37] <mantiena> ;)
[01:38] <mjg59> mantiena: You're not currently here, so I'm afraid that's not really an option
[01:38] <mjg59> Now, why did that fail?
[01:39] <mantiena> mjg59, but you also are not here, maybe that's an option here ? ;)
[01:40] <thom> argh, less has taken over */* mime types again
=== mjg59 attacks swsusp with a stick
[01:41] <mjg59> I'm getting very sick of this Vaio BIOS animation
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[01:41] <thom> mjg59: vaio? ew
[01:41] <ogra> mjg59: switch it off ;)
[01:41] <mjg59> thom: Dude, my test box has become a Vaio
[01:41] <mjg59> I couldn't have written the Sony crack otherwise
[01:42] <thom> mjg59: i suppose it's good that they're useful for something
[01:42] <mjg59> This one has no removable media, no way to boot off network or USB and has a broken screen hinge
[01:42] <Mitario> nn all
[01:43] <mjg59> Arse, resume failed again
[01:43] <daniels> mjg59: should get an x505
[01:44] <mjg59> Now I'm actually going to have to debug this
[01:44] <mjg59> daniels: I was sort of planning on getting Mark to buy me one
[01:45] <mjg59> Arse.
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[01:46] <daniels> heh :)
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[01:48] <mantiena> I'm going to sleep, bye all
[01:50] <ogra> night all
[01:51] <ajmitch> night ogra 
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[01:58] <mantiena> mdz, still online ?
[02:01] <mantiena> mdz, It seems there are problems in liveCD with USB and other hotpluging hardware - hotplug simply doesn't work when I work in GNOME from liveCD :( 
[02:02] <mantiena> root@ubuntu:/tmp/mnt/installer # ps aux |grep hot
[02:02] <mantiena> root     28425  0.0  0.0   3000   716 pts/1    R+   03:02   0:00 grep hot
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[02:03] <dholbac1> re
=== dholbac1 is now known as dholbach
[02:03] <mantiena> hotplug even doesn't start if I try to start it from command line :(
[02:03] <mantiena> root@ubuntu:/tmp/mnt/installer # /etc/init.d/hotplug start
[02:03] <mantiena>  * Starting hotplug subsystem...                                          [ ok ] 
[02:03] <mantiena> root@ubuntu:/tmp/mnt/installer # ps aux |grep hot
[02:03] <mantiena> root     30753  0.0  0.0   2996   720 pts/1    S+   03:04   0:00 grep hot
[02:03] <mantiena> root@ubuntu:/tmp/mnt/installer #
[02:05] <dholbach> jdub: how eager are the guys in #ubuntu-love? they surely want to get involved into https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePythonTransitionTODO :-)
[02:06] <mantiena> mdz, I really should go to bed, you can answer me, I read IRC log when wake up ;)
[02:15] <mdz> mantiena: hotplug is not a daemon
[02:16] <mdz> there are some bugs around automatic mounting of hot-plugged devices, if that's what you're testing
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[02:54] <dholbach> sleep tight everyone, i'm off
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[03:31] <mdz> bye all
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[04:03] <Kamion> dear md5sum, please run faster so that I can go to bed, love Colin
[04:04] <HrdwrBoB> Dear Colin, your system has crappy I/O throughput. love md5sum
[04:04] <sivang> Kamion: it's probably around 4:00am there no?
[04:04] <Kamion> little's not that bad ... just big files
[04:04] <Kamion> 3am
[04:04] <sivang> Kamion: eh then we are 2 hours apart
[04:04] <daniels> Kamion: clearly you should be doing it on CONCORDIA
[04:08] <Kamion> hm, actually I was unfair to md5sum, it's cp taking eons
[04:10] <Kamion> thank God we aren't including DVDs in Array releases (yet)
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[04:14] <daniels> Kamion: we'd need a 1TB RAMSAN for that
[04:16] <HrdwrBoB> oh look.. ramsans.. mmm
[04:17] <sivang> just for the laugh http://www.linuxworld.com/story/44851.htm
[04:21] <Kamion> night all
[04:21] <daniels> Kamion: 'night dude
[04:22] <lamont> night Kaloz 
[04:22] <lamont> Kamion, even
[04:22] <lamont> damn completion
[04:27] <sivang> night Kamion 
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[05:48] <smurfix> Hmm. The build of console-data failed because it depends on keymapper. Apparently keymapper still needs to get promoted to main. :-/
[05:49] <smurfix> Who's responsible for that?
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[06:06] <fabbione> morning
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[06:58] <Shaquile> fabbione: morning
[07:03] <svenl> hi fabbione 
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[07:34] <whiprush> jdub: ping pong
[07:37] <jdub> whiprush: yo
[07:40] <whiprush> linked up with mako
[07:40] <whiprush> gave out a _boatload_ of ubuntu CDs
[07:41] <whiprush> had beer, talked MOTU stuff.
[07:41] <jdub> rocking
[07:41] <whiprush> _awesome_ stuff.
[07:41] <jdub> lots of love for the ltsp machines, ubuntu cds and gnome livecds?
[07:41] <whiprush> dude ... blogging now.
[07:41] <whiprush> the love went far beyond my expectations.
[07:41] <jdub> sweet :)
[07:42] <whiprush> unfreakingbelievable.
[07:42] <dilinger> i need to start reading planet.gnome
[07:44] <jdub> whiprush: lemme know when you've hit submit, want hot fresh bloggy goodness ;)
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[07:50] <whiprush> k
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[07:58] <schweeb> whiprush: jorge, you done blogging yet
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=== opi is back
=== opi is back
[08:24] <Treenaks> wb
[08:25] <opi> man, I hate my job :/
[08:25] <opi> I didn't do nothing for Ubuntu, or Ubuntu-related since two weeks :/
[08:26] <Treenaks> urgh
[08:28] <opi> I'm going to quit from Leader position, I'm now more a slacker than a leader :-)
[08:33] <toresbe> that's what leaders do :P
[08:34] <Treenaks> delegate!
[08:36] <toresbe> exactly. :P
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[08:38] <Mitario> morning
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[08:39] <pitti> Morning
[08:47] <infinity> pitti!
[08:47] <infinity> pitti : I need to smack you around a bit.
[08:47] <pitti> Hey infinity 
[08:47] <pitti> What's up?
[08:47] <infinity> pitti : And you need to do another php4 security upload for Ubuntu.
[08:47] <pitti> *sigh*
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[08:48] <infinity> pitti : Grab the latest copy of 040-curl_open_basedir.patch from the pkg-php4 CVS on alioth.
[08:48] <infinity> pitti : Your patch was a) not complete, and b) causing segfaults.
[08:48] <infinity> pitti : So, I rewrote it.  Merry Christmas.
[08:49] <pitti> infinity: uh, sorry for that...
[08:50] <infinity> I'm rolling a new upload for Debian right now.
[08:50] <infinity> The new patch is tested to actually work. :)
[08:51] <infinity> It a) enforces safe_mode (yours only enforced open_basedir), and b) covers the case where curl_inti() is called with no args, and CURLOPT_URL is set via curt_setopt instead.
[08:52] <infinity> Oh, and c) covers the case where someone uses a host component in their file:// URL.
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[08:52] <infinity> Your patch was easily bypassed by using file://whatever/etc/passwd
[08:53] <infinity> pitti : if you have any questions/corrections to the current patch, speak up now, before I upload. :)
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[08:54] <pitti> infinity: what should "whatever" be? ".." ?
[08:54] <infinity> pitti : Anything.  It's completely ignored.
[08:55] <pitti> uh
[08:55] <infinity> pitti : Hence why I just strstr for the next "/"
[08:55] <infinity> pitti : file:///foo, file://localhost/foo, and file://somethingrandom/foo are all the same URL.
[08:55] <infinity> ie: The host component is just stripped out.
[08:56] <infinity> Oh, hrm.  I didn't test if you can use mixed case.. (like "FILE:///foo")
[08:56] <infinity> Let me test that before I upload.  If so, I need to use an insensitive match. :)
[08:57] <pitti> infinity: bah, why it makes sense to put a host into a file URL?
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[08:57] <pitti> infinity: anyway, thanks a lot for fixing that
[08:57] <infinity> Ahh, you can.
[08:58] <infinity> Hold on while I update the patch again.
[08:59] <pitti> infinity: mind to give me a full URL? http://alioth.debian.org/ just doesn't work ATM
[09:01] <infinity> Hrm.  Not sure.  Let me put the patch elsewhere.
[09:02] <infinity> http://lucifer.0c3.net/~adconrad/040-curl_open_basedir.patch
[09:03] <infinity> Sorry I didn't get a chance to review it earlier, but better late than never, right?
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[09:03] <Mithrandir> hi pitti, \infty
[09:04] <infinity> Hey Mithrandir.
[09:04] <pitti> Hi Mithrandir 
[09:05] <infinity> pitti : Look sane to yuo?
[09:05] <infinity> pitti : it compiles and all my testcases come out as expected.
[09:05] <infinity> pitti : So it can't be that broken. :)
[09:05] <pitti> infinity: yes, but I don't fully understand all function calls of the second part
[09:05] <pitti> infinity: I did not see any obvious errors
[09:06] <infinity> pitti : open_basedir is the basedir check, then PG(safe_mode) is asking if we're running in safe_mode, and if so, we do a uid check (in safe_mode, people can't read files that they don't own)
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: why there are two parts in the first place?
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: aren't both cases file:// URLs?
[09:07] <pitti> infinity: i. e. what does CURLOPT_URL mean?
[09:07] <infinity> pitti : yes, but curl.c sets CURLOPT_URL in two possible places.  Both need to be covered.
[09:07] <pitti> ok
[09:08] <infinity> pitti : You can either do "curl_init('file:///foo')", or you can do "$handle = curl_init(); curl_setopt($handle, CURLOPT_URL, 'file:///')"
[09:08] <infinity> The second case covers the latter.
[09:08] <pitti> ah
[09:08] <pitti> cool
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[09:11] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync mailman from Debian incoming
[09:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: what did you fix?
[09:12] <Mithrandir> SLASH undefined
[09:12] <pitti> CAN-2005-0202?
[09:12] <Mithrandir> yes, update for that
[09:12] <pitti> yes, Hoary already has the fix :-)
[09:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: erm, we already have 2.1.5-6 ??
[09:12] <Mithrandir> no, it doesn't.
[09:12] <Mithrandir> yes, but -7 is in incoming
[09:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: so is there a new vuln?
[09:13] <Mithrandir> no
[09:13] <Mithrandir> wtf, this is weird
[09:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, ok :.-) just read hte changelog
[09:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: I did not use SLASH in my patch, I just used '/' :-)
[09:14] <Mithrandir> +    parts = [x for x in path.split(SLASH) if x not in ('.', '..')] 
[09:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, I remember
[09:14] <Mithrandir> sure?  I thought I grabbed your patch
[09:14] <Mithrandir> anyhow, hoary is broken ATM due to that.
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[09:14] <Mithrandir> since it's synced with Debian
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[09:15] <infinity> pitti : Anyhow, it's fairly urgent to get that fixed patch out, IMO.  Not for the security hole (who really cares?), but because your patch caused segfaults when calling curl_init() with no arguments.  A pretty nasty regression.
[09:15] <pitti> infinity: yes, I'll upload new packages today
[09:15] <infinity> pitti : Cheers.
=== infinity heads to dinner.
[09:19] <whiprush> jdub: blog up, going to bed. woot.
[09:21] <pitti> see you later
[09:22] <jdub> whiprush: night! :)
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:jdub] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals
[09:23] <tritium> jdub, I think we've got a handle on polypaudio problems for the most part now
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[09:39] <tritium> jdub, crimsun documented what we tried here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-February/022862.html
[09:39] <tritium> good night
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[09:44] <dholbach> morning
[09:45] <jdub> yo dholbach 
[09:45] <ogra> moin
[09:46] <dholbach> hai ogra!
[09:49] <mvo> hi dholbach 
[09:49] <dholbach> hai mvo
[09:49] <dholbach> mvo: had my first doesnt-built-on-one-arch-package today
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[09:50] <mvo> dholbach: :) what package was it?
[09:50] <dholbach> mvo: papaya on powerpc
[09:50] <mvo> dholbach: endian problems?
[09:51] <ogra> looks rather like a typo...../include/Telnet.h:35: error: parse error before numeric constant
[09:52] <dholbach> mvo: not sure yet
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[09:54] <fabbione> Unpacking OO.o build tree - [ go make some tea ]  ...
[09:54] <fabbione> ahah
[09:54] <HiddenWolf> How many arches does ubuntu support. (un)Officially?
[09:54] <ogra> yeah, thats british
[09:55] <ogra> HiddenWolf: 3 officially 2 un....
[09:57] <HiddenWolf> ogra: any plans to increase that number?
[09:58] <ogra> heh, i think there is at least one unofficial arch that could get added in hoary+1 (MIPS)
[09:59] <HiddenWolf> *ugh*
[09:59] <ogra> ?
[09:59] <ogra> HiddenWolf: to what else should it increase ?
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[10:00] <HiddenWolf> Ubuntu is still young, not a massive infrastructure yet, I kind of feel that it'd be better to stick to arches that are used the most.
[10:00] <seb128> mvo: hey. have you read the bugzilla comment about the maximized state for some apps ? I've Cc: you since the guy speak about synaptic
[10:01] <mvo> seb128: no, not yet (/me checks mail again)
[10:01] <ogra> HiddenWolf: if there are people that want ubuntu on their alpha station, why shouldnt they port it ?
[10:01] <seb128> mvo: that's a 2 days old mail 
[10:02] <ogra> HiddenWolf: ....an if the port is stable and wanted by the audience, why shouldnt it get adopted in the official set
[10:02] <seb128> mvo: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6601
[10:02] <HiddenWolf> ogra: true, but if you have a few smaller ports that suck in time, or get out of sync with i386, you run into debianish-situations
[10:05] <jdub> HiddenWolf: number of arches is not regarded as a significant problem among core debian developers
[10:06] <jdub> there are lots of other things that contribute
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> Yeah :-S I'm still waiting for sarge. :-)
[10:07] <mvo> seb128: it's probably a app issue. I save the window size on exit and restore it on restore. I'll have a look what magic gedit does
[10:07] <opi> HiddenWolf: Sarge, Sarge.. hum.. I think it's some kind of Yeti Distribution ;-)
[10:08] <mvo> seb128: I wonder why someone would want to open the gaim buddy list in fullscreen :)
[10:08] <HiddenWolf> mvo: call me style-less :-)
=== HiddenWolf is the reporter
[10:09] <mvo> HiddenWolf: hehe :) 
[10:10] <HiddenWolf> mvo: Give me a good alternative to gaim and I'll love you. :-)
[10:10] <seb128> mvo: me too ;)
=== mvo uses gaim himself
=== mvo would like to add that he hadn't made it fullscreen yet ;)
[10:11] <dholbach> someone would have to kill this reconnect-ui-logiv
[10:11] <dholbach> logic
[10:11] <ogra> yeah
=== HiddenWolf thinks mvo has a tiny contact-list then
=== mvo chucckles
=== dholbach thinks, HiddenWolf shouldnt think about tiny things of others
=== HiddenWolf prefers big things of others, but thinks that dholbach shouldn't think about what he should think
=== mvo thinks this is getting complicated now
[10:13] <ogra> lol
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[10:14] <dholbach> hai pitti
[10:14] <HiddenWolf> Hm. I'm going to get ready to get my butt kicked. 
=== HiddenWolf is getting kicked out of a project-group by his team, so he is in a bit of trouble, considering the importance of the course.
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[10:17] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[10:19] <enrico> Hello.  Could someone help answer this message that was addressed to mdz, but mdz is currently on vacation?  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-February/001218.html
[10:19] <enrico> Kamion?
[10:21] <enrico> The guy asking is writing the Hoary Release Notes and needs help with some items
[10:22] <Mithrandir> enrico: both grepmap and readahead increase the speed of the boot process.
[10:24] <haggai> does anyone have an amd64 or powerpc box that they could build openoffice.org2 on and then give me access to the build tree?  Both arches are failing in completely different ways to i386
[10:25] <Mithrandir> haggai: hoary?
[10:25] <haggai> Mithrandir: yup
[10:25] <Mithrandir> haggai: drop a signed mail to tfheen@d.o, cc maswan@acc.umu.se; include your ssh key and desired user name.
[10:25] <HiddenWolf> haggai: is there any ETA for the final oo02?
[10:26] <haggai> Mithrandir: thanks.  Which arch would that be?
[10:27] <Mithrandir> amd64
[10:30] <haggai> HiddenWolf: April
[10:30] <haggai> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[10:34] <haggai> anyone with powerpc?
[10:35] <jdub> haggai: yeah, a slow one
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> jdub: Give it some lovin' and let it work a while. :-)
[10:36] <haggai> jdub: it wouldn't matter if it was slow, I just need shell access to a built tree.  I have to run an extra module and examine the output
[10:36] <jdub> haggai: hrm, shell access hard
[10:37] <haggai> jdub: ok well if I gave you some extra commands to run could you then send me a dirtree containing that output?
[10:38] <jdub> man, this is so not the machine you want ooo2 building on
[10:38] <jdub> it'll take all night
[10:38] <haggai> I have all week :)
[10:38] <HiddenWolf> jdub: Imagine the joy that ppc will feel, that it finally gets a real job to chew on. :-)
[10:39] <haggai> it takes 1/2 day just to do 1 source package, upload, wait for buildds...
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[10:51] <smurfix> Hey Simira 
[10:51] <Simira> hello there
=== Simira is waiting for lecture by Mr. Stallman
[10:52] <Treenaks> Simira: where? in Norway?
[10:53] <Simira> Treenaks: yup. It's by the International Student Festival
[10:53] <Simira> Treenaks: he's even joining us for nerd's pizza afterwards... :D
[10:53] <Treenaks> Simira: 8)
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[10:54] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: in a couple of hours, so Simira and I are watching irrelevant lectures while grabbing seats.
[10:54] <Simira> hehe
[10:54] <Simira> feels kinda nerdish, yes...
[10:54] <Simira> let's see.. three hours or so? :p
[10:54] <Mithrandir> pft
[10:54] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: ah.. I'll probably see him at FOSDEM next week
[10:54] <Mithrandir> it's not more nerdish than sitting in an airport hacking.
[10:54] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: oh, he's coming to FOSDEM?
[10:56] <ogra> opening note i guess
[10:57] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: second one.. opening is Jimmy Wales (Wikipedia0
[10:57] <Mithrandir> ok, fun.
[10:57] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: I sat in the Barcelona airport, ircing, when I went home from Mataro ;)
[10:57] <Mithrandir> I'll be there.
[10:58] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: (thank you Intel + HP)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> yeah :)
=== Mithrandir hugs nstx
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[11:02] <dholbach> hi dredg
[11:04] <dredg> dholbach: good morning
[11:04] <dredg> thanks for your mail.. I've modified mbot accordingly
[11:05] <ogra> yeah
[11:06] <dholbach> dredg: cool - unfortunately i have to go - be back in 2 hours or something
[11:06] <dredg> no worries :)
[11:07] <dredg> i have to do that work..job..thing...
[11:07] <dholbach> dredg: i know how it feels ;-)
[11:07] <ogra> its a pity
[11:08] <dholbach> see you later guys
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[11:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: argh, I really used that SLASH thing. Darn, in my first patch I didn't, somehow I messed that up :-(
[11:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: so the warty fix is broken?
[11:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, fixing it now. I did it correctly in my test version, but somehow the official patch slipped in
[11:21] <Mithrandir> ok
[11:23] <seb128> grumpf, xine doesn't build here :/
[11:27] <seb128> (xine-lib in fact)
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[11:44] <fabbione> cya guys
[11:44] <fabbione> have fun
[11:44] <ogra> have a nice time fabbione
[11:44] <fabbione> thanks ogra
[11:44] <ogra> and dont mess with the seals
[11:44] <fabbione> cya soon
[11:45] <pitti> fabbione: have nice holidays!
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[11:45] <fabbione> thanks pitti
[11:48] <pitti> fabbione: no worries, we will mess up your beloved kernel in the meantime :-)
[11:49] <pitti> fabbione: hey, wait I just received this remote root security bug!
[11:49] <pitti> fabbione: just kidding :-) Take care!
[11:49] <ogra> hhehe
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[12:35] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: should I just upload a new pkgconfig with me set as the maintainer or do you want me just to be in uploaders for now?
[12:40] <Keybuk> just upload it
[12:41] <Mithrandir> ook
[12:41] <Mithrandir> what's the procedure for doing new upstream releases?
[12:42] <thom> Mithrandir: so, do we rename moz-* to * now?
[12:43] <Mithrandir> thom: yes
[12:43] <thom> ok, i'll roll up a new firefox tarball
[12:45] <Mithrandir> we change the source package as well, I guess.
[12:45] <thom> indeed
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[12:47] <Astharot> bonjour
[12:51] <ogra> ciao
[01:10] <amu> daniels: ping
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[01:15] <rburton> so my arch repository has =meta-info/http-blows but isn't http accessible
[01:15] <rburton> i'm sure it was in the past, is there anything else i should press?
[01:15] <rburton> (burtonini.com/arch/)
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[01:21] <jdub> lifeless: ping, see rburton's q ^
[01:21] <jdub> rburton: he's in london if you want to bug him ;)
[01:22] <lifeless> rburton: run archive-fixup first
[01:22] <lifeless> i.e. baz archive-fixup -A ross@burtonini.com--2004
[01:24] <rburton> mwhaaa
[01:25] <rburton> aaah
[01:25] <rburton> jdub: now with new improved .listing files
[01:25] <jdub> yay
[01:25] <jdub> thanks :)
[01:25] <jbailey> jdub: sb just told me that you've already looked at xml-rpc in bug-buddy.  Got a sec to tell me what you know?
[01:25] <jdub> jbailey: no, not i.
[01:25] <jdub> jbailey: i know that work was done on it; ask fer in #gnome-hackers
[01:26] <jbailey> On gimpnet?
[01:26] <jdub> yeah
[01:26] <jbailey> Thanks. =)
[01:26] <jbailey> The gnome hackers are in Boston right?  I'm guessing I should wait a couple hours before poking my head in.
[01:26] <jdub> rburton: haven't mirrored?
[01:26] <rburton> lifeless: thanks
[01:27] <jdub> jbailey: they're all around the world :)
[01:27] <jdub> jbailey: fer is in spain
[01:27] <rburton> jdub: i'm lame. for me the arch repos is ~/Web/Burtonini/htdocs/arch
[01:27] <elmo> seb128/kamion/mithrandir: done
[01:27] <jdub> rburton: ;)
[01:27] <rburton> i just did an rsync so the web should have the new files
[01:28] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[01:29] <seb128> jdub: sorry, I thought you were speaking with fer on #gnome-hackers about xml-rpc some time ago :)
[01:30] <jdub> seb128: only about its existence, and what bugzilla needed, etc. ;)
[01:30] <lifeless> rburton: np
[01:30] <seb128> jdub: k, I thought you were both working on it :)
[01:30] <jdub> no way dude
[01:30] <jdub> xml-rpc client from C? yeeeeek!
=== jdub hugs python
[01:31] <seb128> don't be rude with the poor jbailey who is going to work on this
[01:31] <ajmitch> jbailey: poor poor soul ;)
[01:31] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks
[01:31] <jbailey> ajmitch: You're right.  I wish it were my beloved Corba.  But ah well.
[01:31] <jdub> oh man
[01:31] <jdub> dude
[01:32] <jdub> you are a fan of murky grot, aren't you? :)
[01:32] <ajmitch> jbailey: btw suspend-to-ram was easy to get going, I just had to read the wiki page ;)
[01:32] <jbailey> jdub: Dude, I'm hard core. =)
[01:32] <ajmitch> jdub: he hacks glibc for *fun*
[01:33] <rburton> urgggh
[01:35] <thom> hardcore smack addict - sendmail *and* corba
[01:36] <jdub> and hurdygurdy
[01:36] <jdub> i think the only reason jbailey enjoys hurd is so he can say, "let me slip into my comfortable OS"
[01:37] <ajmitch> heh
[01:37] <thom> jdub: dude, he's a MARTYR for the CAUSE
[01:38] <jdub> and i'm a doubting thomas-- hold on, that's what you're supposed to be
[01:38] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: what's wrong about hacking glibc for fun?
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[01:38] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: combine that with his other pursuits & you start to worry
[01:39] <Mithrandir> I guess I should be considered insane, then
[01:39] <Mithrandir> since I implement multiarch for fun
[01:39] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Insanity's not that bad.  It lowers people's expectations of you ;)
[01:39] <ajmitch> how far did you get on the nx server rewrite, btw?
[01:39] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: working on it
[01:39] <smurfix> jbailey: in that case, it actually raises them ...
[01:40] <jdub> ajmitch: had to do multiarch support so he could run the server in 64bit and the client in 32bit ;-)
[01:40] <Mithrandir> heh :)
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[01:41] <ajmitch> ok, time for sleep (again)
[01:41] <ajmitch> night all
[01:42] <pitti> night ajmitch 
[01:42] <Mithrandir> sleep tight
[01:47] <Kamion> elmo: hm, would it be useful to have Requested-By: or something in -changes mails for syncs rather than overwriting Changed-By:? I occasionally wonder "ok, so who actually uploaded that to Debian?"
[01:47] <pitti> Keybuk: ping
[01:47] <Keybuk> pitti: ello
[01:47] <pitti> Keybuk: just debugging pmount
[01:47] <pitti> Keybuk: EWORKSFORME
[01:48] <rburton> htm, how do i get baz to show me the locals diffs on a single file
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: do you happen to have two CD-ROM drives?
[01:48] <Keybuk> nope, just the one
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: I first tried /media/cdrom, but that's a symlink to cdrom0
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: but the CD was in cdrom1
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: you have /media/cdrom -> /media/cdrom0 ?
[01:48] <mjg59> ajmitch: Suspend worked? Rocking.
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: and it doesn't work for both paths?
[01:49] <mjg59> thom: My patches for swsusp on PPC currently kill it on x86, for reasons I'm unsure of
[01:49] <Kamion> rburton: baz diff | filterdiff? :-/
[01:49] <Kamion> you'd *think* that baz diff -- <whatever> would work, but no ...
[01:50] <mvo> rburton: dosn't baz diff -- $single_file work ?
[01:50] <rburton> i'm not 100% keen on the heavy use of --
[01:50] <rburton> mvo: nope
[01:50] <rburton> didn't produce anything
[01:51] <mvo> hrm, right (just checked)
[01:53] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, you _do_ use pmount >= 0.6, don't you?
[01:53] <thom> mjg59: ugh.
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[01:55] <smurfix> What's the procedure for moving something universe=>main?
[01:55] <Keybuk> pitti: whatever's in hoary
[01:55] <smurfix> keymapper to be exact
[01:57] <pitti> Keybuk: <pitti> Keybuk: you have /media/cdrom -> /media/cdrom0 ?
[01:57] <pitti> <pitti> Keybuk: and it doesn't work for both paths?
[01:57] <pitti> s/both/either/
[02:00] <Kamion> smurfix: if you've made something build-depend on it, then elmo processes that every so often
[02:01] <Keybuk> pitti: looks like it; I haven't got time or a CD handy at the moment to play though
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[02:06] <deki_> hallo
[02:06] <mjg59> thom: Ok, may have found the problem
[02:06] <deki_> i have horrandous perofmrance with ubuntu kernel 2.6.10-3-k7-preempt
[02:07] <deki_> the windows are drawed horribly slow
[02:07] <deki_> i have pci nvidia card
[02:07] <deki_> when i use mandrake kernel with ubuntu 2.6.3-mdk4
[02:07] <deki_> then it is ok
[02:08] <deki_> so how to disable preemption in kernel?
[02:08] <deki_> bootoptions?
[02:08] <mjg59> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/kidtalk.mspx is excellent
[02:11] <infinity> mjg59 : This is fantastic.
[02:13] <Kamion> deki_: that doesn't sound like a standard Ubuntu kernel to me
[02:14] <infinity> (as in "ph34r my l33t skillz")
[02:14] <Kamion> although actually our kernels do have CONFIG_PREEMPT=y, hmm
[02:14] <pitti> infinity: the big question: why it is under a path called "security" ? :-)
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[02:15] <Kamion> although only for i386 and ia64
[02:15] <mjg59> Now I'm horribly confused.
[02:15] <deki_> Linux deki 2.6.10-3-k7 #1 Tue Feb 15 20:45:29 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
[02:15] <bob2> deki is claiming that uid 0 has a special scheduler queue
[02:15] <infinity> pitti : I'm not sure.  The point seems to be to determine if your child is "dealing in w4r3z" or is a "l33t h4x0r"
[02:15] <bob2> and that this is an ubuntu-specific patch
[02:15] <pitti> infinity: probably :-)
[02:15] <thom> pitti: the mention of w4r3z and intelectual property theft
[02:15] <infinity> Man, I haven
[02:15] <deki_> zcat: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory
[02:15] <infinity> 't laughed so hard in days.
[02:15] <infinity> mjg59 : Thanks.
[02:16] <deki_> CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
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[02:17] <deki_> deki@deki:/boot$ cat config-2.6.10-3-k7 |grep -i PREEMPT
[02:17] <deki_> CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
[02:17] <bob2> and is apparently fixated on PREEMPT being the cause of the problem
[02:17] <deki_> so there is PREEMPTION
=== infinity can't imagine why preempt would destroy your X performance, mind you...
[02:17] <deki_> bob2, yes i do
[02:17] <deki_> bob2, acpi maybe too
[02:17] <bob2> I'm not sure why he/she thinks switching to root would change the effect of PREEMPT in any way
[02:17] <bob2> right, acpi degrades performance for non-root users
[02:17] <mjg59> thom: D'oh. The kernel is fine, it's the hardware that's knackered. If it's shut down in platform mode, the disk cache is never flushed.
[02:17] <bob2> it's a special ubuntu patch, too
[02:17] <mjg59> Reverting to defaults is fine
[02:17] <deki_> bob2, can you live me alone please?
[02:17] <Kamion> I'm certainly not convinced preempt would be a good idea on powerpc, but fortunately we don't enable it on powerpc
[02:17] <deki_> bob2, you give me no information at all
[02:18] <mjg59> deki_: Why do you think preempt is a problem?
[02:18] <deki_> bob2, you only talking one thing: fill a bug and this is not a kernel issuse
[02:18] <bob2> I'm just bemused by your insistence on this, when you have no evidence either way.
[02:18] <thom> mjg59: bah, that kind of sucks
[02:18] <deki_> mjg59, cause i have had no such things on systems without preempt
[02:18] <Kamion> we should really turn CONFIG_IKCONFIG or CONFIG_IKCONFIG_PROC or whatever on for all kernels; although it's in /boot anyway
[02:18] <deki_> mjg59, look all windows are drowed thery slow
[02:18] <mjg59> deki_: If you recompile the Mandrake kernel with preempt, do you have problems?
[02:18] <bob2> deki_: yes, I'm not sure why you think ubuntu has a special kernel patch which degrades performance for non-root and only non-root users with PREEMPT
[02:18] <elmo> Kamion: why?  as you say it's in /boot and if it's in /proc, doesn't it use memory?
[02:19] <deki_> bob2, i thihnk root has also slow performance
[02:19] <deki_> mjg59, i can send you the mandrake kernel config
[02:19] <mjg59> thom: It's no big deal - just brokenness on this machine
[02:19] <bob2> 23:11:16          deki_ |  bob2, there is not preemption for root
[02:19] <Kamion> elmo: hm, true I guess; should be off for all architectures then, not on for some and off for others
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[02:19] <deki_> bob2, you are on ignore
[02:19] <deki_> ok
[02:20] <deki_> again i like ubuntu linux very much and i want to fix this issue
[02:20] <deki_> can you tell me the possible causes for this problem?
[02:20] <mjg59> deki_: If you have a kernel with preempt that is slow and an otherwise identical kernel without preempt that is fast, then it may well be preempt
[02:20] <deki_> ok
[02:20] <deki_> mjg59, i will try to rebuild the kernel
[02:20] <mjg59> But comparing a kernel that's almost a year old with a current one and then concluding that the problem is preempt is mad
[02:20] <mjg59> deki_: Ok, please do that
[02:20] <mjg59> Are you using the same X drivers in both cases?
[02:21] <deki_> mjg59, i take ubuntu kernel and then cahnge options only step by step
[02:21] <deki_> mjg59, yes
[02:21] <deki_> mjg59, 6111
[02:21] <deki_> mjg59, maybe you are right
[02:21] <mjg59> With the same X server?
[02:21] <deki_> mjg59, sure not
[02:21] <deki_> mjg59, hoary uses xorg
[02:21] <deki_> mandrake uses moment
[02:21] <mjg59> Right. It's more likely to be something to do with X than the kernel.
[02:21] <deki_> ok
[02:22] <deki_> i think there are problems with pci bus or similar
[02:22] <deki_> that it does not have good thoughput
[02:22] <deki_> XFree86-server-4.3-29mdk
[02:22] <deki_> that is what i have on XFree
[02:23] <deki_> mjg59, how to find out what is exactly wrong?
[02:23] <deki_> mjg59, i think lots of things can be wrong
[02:23] <infinity> deki_ : It you switch from the 'nvidia' driver to the 'nv' driver, does X's behaviour change noticeably?
[02:23] <deki_> infinity, no
[02:23] <deki_> infinity, not at all
[02:23] <deki_> infinity, the funny thing: i have the same problem 
[02:24] <deki_> with nv and nvidia driver
[02:24] <deki_> when i open window
[02:24] <deki_> or similar
[02:24] <mjg59> deki_: The best thing to do is to file a bug and then have the discussion there
[02:24] <deki_> it is draw from up to bottom
[02:24] <deki_> mjg59, hmm
[02:24] <deki_> mjg59, whatr should i write in a bug?
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[02:25] <infinity> deki_ : Decription of the problem, steps you've taken to diagnose/isolate it (mention that you used both X drivers, for instance, if that's the case), etc.
[02:25] <deki_> infinity, ok, but i will try to compile custom kernel also and lets see if it would solve it to, maybe :D
[02:25] <infinity> deki_ : Of course, if you can fiddle with some kernel options and make the problem go away, that information would also be helpful.
[02:26] <deki_> infinity, ok thx
[02:26] <infinity> deki_ : I'll give 20-to-1 odds it has nothing to do with preempt, but there could be something else kernel-side that's mucking you up.  Stranger things have happened.
[02:26] <deki_> infinity, i like ubuntu very much , but all this problems drive me crazy
[02:26] <deki_> infinity, right
[02:26] <deki_> infinity, i think the same thing
[02:27] <deki_> infinity, i have very exotic hardware
[02:27] <infinity> deki_ : What sort of hardware?
[02:27] <deki_> infinity, some kind of shuttle pc
[02:27] <infinity> That's not that exotic.
[02:27] <deki_> hmm ok
[02:27] <deki_> moment
[02:27] <deki_> i look at chipset
[02:27] <infinity> lspci is helpful there.
[02:27] <deki_> 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]  740 Host (rev 01)
[02:27] <deki_> #
[02:27] <deki_> and os on
[02:28] <deki_> everything is from sis
[02:28] <deki_> and i am using PCI nvidia card
[02:28] <infinity> Could be a PCI tuning issue, but given that many (MANY) people run Linux on those tiny systems, it seems unlikely.
[02:28] <infinity> deki_ : Which nVidia chipset?
[02:28] <deki_> 0000:00:02.5 IDE interface: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]  5513 [IDE] 
[02:28] <deki_> infinity, geforce 4mx
[02:28] <infinity> Okay, that should definitely not be the problem, then.
[02:29] <infinity> The GF2 series (the 4MX is just a refreshed GF2) is probably the best supported anywhere, due to the sheer size of the install base.
[02:29] <deki_> correct
[02:29] <deki_> i think there is a problem with acpi <-- > pci bus
[02:29] <deki_> and similar
[02:29] <deki_> but i tryed already switch acpi off
[02:30] <deki_> the interesting thing : the mandrake kernel does not have working acpi for my system
[02:30] <infinity> Does it show as sharing any IRQs with ACPI turned off?
[02:30] <deki_> infinity, how to see it?
[02:30] <infinity> lspci -v
[02:30] <infinity> Should show you the IRQ of each PCI device.
[02:30] <deki_> no acpi is turned on
[02:30] <infinity> Oh, then you'd have to reboot with acpi disabled. :)
[02:30] <deki_> ok
[02:30] <deki_> moment
=== infinity gets busy learning leetspeak.
[02:33] <Mithrandir> infinity: oh, php upstream switched to their natural language?
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[02:35] <elmo> ugh, why doesn't apt have "/distro" support for source
[02:35] <Mithrandir> elmo: because nobody has forced mdz to implement it
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[02:37] <sivang> morning
=== deki_ [proxy@p54A16890.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:38] <deki_> rew
[02:39] <deki_> hallo
[02:39] <deki_> how the acpi is switched off
[02:40] <deki_> same problems are noticeblae
[02:40] <deki_> mjg59, so what should i look ap again?
[02:40] <deki_> root@deki:~ # lspci -v
[02:40] <deki_> 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]  740 Host (rev 01)
[02:40] <deki_>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32
[02:40] <deki_>         Memory at d0000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64M] 
[02:40] <deki_>         Capabili
[02:40] <deki_> one lie for example
[02:40] <deki_> Capabilities: [c0]  AGP version 2.0
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[02:43] <deki_> farewell
[02:43] <deki_> all the time i live on my alone with the problem
[02:43] <deki_> when i solve it i will come here and tell what was wrong
[02:43] <deki_> bye
[02:44] <infinity> Wow.  How melodramatic.
[02:53] <jbailey> Sounds like something Roger Waters would write. =)
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[02:54] <zul> hey
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[03:09] <Mithrandir> jdub: the fluendo stuff is fairly easy to get going, but needs a bit more work to Just Work
[03:10] <smurfix> elmo: promote keymapper? (console-data now depends on it)
[03:10] <smurfix> build-deps, actually
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[03:13] <sivang> morning mako 
[03:15] <elmo> smurfix: done
[03:15] <smurfix> thx
[03:16] <Mitario> mvo, ping
[03:16] <smurfix> now console-data needs a build-retry. lamont?
[03:16] <elmo> that'll happen automatically
[03:16] <smurfix> ah, good
[03:19] <mvo> Mitario: pong
[03:19] <Mitario> mvo, got my e-mails? :)
[03:21] <mvo> Mitario: yes, didn't answered yet because of other things got in my way
[03:22] <Mitario> ok, no problem!
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[03:32] <bob2> dear gaim,
[03:32] <bob2> you suck
[03:32] <bob2> love,
[03:32] <bob2> rob
[03:32] <Mithrandir> bob2: what have you broken now?
[03:32] <Simira> :)
[03:33] <bob2> Mithrandir: I love the feature of uselessly refusing to reconnect automatically when my network comes back
[03:33] <Simira> bob2: oh, that one... wondered about that myself
[03:33] <bob2> it's much better to throw a dialog up on a random desktop and wait for me to manually click on something
[03:33] <infinity> That's my favourite feature.
[03:33] <Mithrandir> bob2: get a real network connection?
[03:33] <Mithrandir> bob2: and you can certainly have it reconnect.
[03:33] <Mithrandir> it does for me.
[03:33] <lifeless> Mithrandir: real network connections come and go
[03:33] <infinity> "Automatically retry" obviously means "retry once or twice, then throw an error uselessly"
[03:33] <bob2> what infinity said
[03:34] <Mithrandir> infinity: then it tries again after a while.
[03:34] <bob2> it's been sitting here for 3 hours
[03:34] <infinity> ... a long while? :)
[03:34] <Mithrandir> yeah
=== thom goes try new ia64 installer cd
[03:43] <rburton> jdub: the wiki is on crack
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=== Simza is now known as Simira
[03:48] <Nafallo> missing .torrent for array-5?
[03:50] <elmo> is gnome-cups-icon really meant to poll every 1-2 seconds?
[03:52] <Mithrandir> that's how cups work.
[03:52] <Mithrandir> I think
[03:53] <infinity> The polling interval seems a bit frequent, though.
[03:56] <lamont> smurfix: thanks
=== lamont looks at f2c
[03:57] <zul> lamont, did you have a look at t-bone's email?
[03:59] <thom> w00t, looks like i got an elilo config written
[03:59] <lamont> not yet
[04:00] <thom> yay whoever fixed elilo!
[04:00] <zul> k cool
[04:00] <lamont> thom: woohooo!
=== thom waits for the fucken dhcp server to hand out an ip
[04:01] <thom> "Configuring the base system"
[04:01] <thom> laptop-detect on ia64
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[04:13] <Kamion> thom: I unbroke the thing I broke ... ;)
[04:13] <Kamion> (thanks to T-Bone)
[04:13] <thom> Kamion: :-)
[04:14] <Kamion> thom: hm, can we get array-5 torrents?
[04:14] <thom> yeah, probably
[04:14] <Kamion> I forgot about those last night
[04:14] <thom> can i have lunch first? ;-)
[04:14] <Kamion> the files should all be there though
[04:14] <Kamion> sure :) we're eating at the moment too
[04:15] <elmo> Kamion: btw, we should probably either setup a third mirror dir on little for orcadas, or you should tell us you don't want to do that, so we can spec out some more disk for it
[04:15] <elmo> 'cos atm it doesn't have the space to mirror cdimage.u.c fully, and the byhand-rsyncing is going to get old fast, not to mention being far too reliant on me or thom being awake
[04:15] <thom> aye
=== thom waits boredly for scrollkeeper
[04:16] <Kamion> elmo: what's orcadas?
[04:16] <Kamion> I can try to prune cdimage.u.c down some more if that helps
[04:16] <thom> Kamion: aka torrent.u.c
[04:17] <Kamion> I could take out old Array releases
[04:17] <elmo> Kamion: I doubt it'll help given your doing dvd's on there, torrent.u.c only has 72Gb
[04:17] <Kamion> like 1 and 2
[04:17] <Kamion> yeah but I only ever keep two DVDs
[04:17] <thom> hrm, page faults in firefox, lovely
[04:18] <elmo> Kamion: well, I don't mind either way, I guess that's option (c) - but since (a) and (c) are on you, it's your call
[04:18] <Kamion> elmo: how much space would I need to free up, roughly?
[04:19] <mantiena> Kamion, will be language-packs other than en included into Ubuntu live CD ?
[04:19] <Kamion> oh, does orcadas just need (a) ISOs being torrented and (b) the .torrent files? and does it need them in any particular layout?
[04:19] <elmo> Kamion: yes, and don't think so for layout
[04:20] <Kamion> mantiena: that class of issue was discussed at yesterday's tech board meeting; the answer is almost certainly yes, but the exact set is still up for grabs
[04:20] <elmo> but thom's nominated torrent ho^H^Hexpert
[04:20] <thom> s/expert/moron/
[04:20] <elmo> hmm
=== Kamion archives off arrays 1 and 2 in the meantime
[04:20] <elmo> I wonder if we could somehow rsync only stuff that had a .torrent
=== lamont groans.
[04:21] <lamont> how can I have 400 _new_ messages (that didn't get autofiled, even)
[04:21] <sivang> lamont: obviously you are subscribed to all too many mailing lists? ;-)
[04:21] <Kamion> elmo: I could cope with the third mirror dir, I guess
[04:22] <lamont> sivang: mailing lists get auto-filed
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[04:22] <Kamion> elmo: if they can just be hardlinks on little
[04:22] <spiral> hello
[04:22] <Kamion> or even symlinks
[04:23] <elmo> yeah, sure I can do --copy-links or -H on orcadas
[04:23] <spiral> I asked the question about this on #ubuntu, but it seems to be a devel problem... Why doesn't the ipw2200 module work on hoary since a recent dist-upgrade ?
[04:23] <smurfix> elmo: keymapper needs yapps2 -- sorry, probably should've mentioned that
[04:23] <bob2> spiral: that's not a devel problem
[04:23] <bob2> if it used to work, file a bug
[04:24] <spiral> bob2: I thought that it was, because it worked fine till recently...
[04:24] <mantiena> Kamion, what does it mean "grabs" ?
[04:24] <elmo> smurfix: meh, is someone aware of these late additions and/or are they feature goal related?
[04:24] <smurfix> elmo: feature goal
[04:24] <spiral> bob2: So I supposed something had gone wrong with last linux-restricted-modules
[04:24] <sivang> lamont: spam then?
[04:24] <Kamion> mantiena: I basically meant "still under discussion"
[04:24] <sivang> lamont: (although spam should also be auto deleted)
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, the keyboard selector's a feature goal AIUI
[04:26] <elmo> smurfix: done
[04:26] <smurfix> elmo: I hope not to need any others. ;-)
[04:27] <smurfix> elmo: s/hope/am fairly sure/ actually
[04:28] <mantiena> Kamion, maybe anyone needs my opinion about set of language-packs to be included ? ;)
[04:28] <Kamion> actually opinions are exactly what we don't need :-) we need a basis on which to be unbiased
[04:28] <Kamion> mantiena: there's a discussion going on on ubuntu-devel@lists
[04:29] <mantiena> Kamion, ok, thanks
[04:29] <Kamion> but ultimately remember that an aim is to make it easy to produce local customised variants of the CDs
[04:30] <Kamion> so really the only sane metric for what's the default is "how many people will it work for?"
[04:32] <mantiena> Kamion, I think all language-packs, supported by debian-installer should be included ;)
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[04:35] <rcaskey_> Kamion: We should go by national weight
[04:35] <rcaskey_> Kamion: Ordered by the weight of the average citizen
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=== ogra picks his can labelled "malaisian ubuntu love" and sprays around the room
[04:37] <ogra> oops...wrong room
[04:37] <Kamion> mantiena: not possible
[04:38] <Kamion> mantiena: please do the sums :)
[04:40] <HiddenWolf> kamion: it was a lot easier to boast about a 1cd distro when all those nasty languages wheren't there yet, right? ;)
[04:40] <mantiena> Kamion, possible without openoffice locales included
[04:40] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: actually they were ...
[04:41] <Kamion> just not the language pack thing, which actually bloats stuff out a bit because all of main is in the language packs, not just base+desktop+ship
[04:41] <Kamion> mantiena: in any case, since the discussion is on ubuntu-devel@lists, please have the discussion there rather than talking to me on IRC; I doubt I will be the one making the decision
[04:42] <mantiena> Kamion, ok, sotry
[04:42] <mantiena> s/sotry/sorry
[04:43] <spiral> bob2: I just posted the bug on bugzilla
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[04:46] <Nafallo> It's not a possibility to package special langpacks with those sections mentioned above just for the cds?
[04:48] <Kamion> bearing in mind that we want users to be able to install these easily post-installation, I think too much proliferation would be bad
[04:48] <Kamion> and it would be very complicated to have to say "oh yeah, if you want to install any more packages and have them translated, you have to install this other package that the installer didn't do for you"
[04:50] <Nafallo> yea, probably to much work.
[04:54] <ogra> Kamion around ? 
=== pitti successfully derooted at :-)
[04:55] <ogra> i have a collegue on my desk with a partman question...
[04:55] <ogra> eh, parted
[04:56] <ogra> he asks if its possible to resize extended dos partitions with it (i neer tried, so i cant answer)
[04:58] <Kamion> ogra: you mean extended partitions in a PC partition table?
[04:58] <Kamion> (extended partitions are independent of DOS as such)
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[04:58] <ogra> so its an addition ?
[04:59] <Kamion> what?
[04:59] <Kamion> well, I guess they're called DOS partition tables, whatever
[04:59] <ogra> extended partitions
[04:59] <Kamion> what do you mean by "addition"?
[05:00] <ogra> you said they are independent ? 
[05:00] <Kamion> pretend I didn't say anything, it's obviously confusing you
[05:00] <Kamion> :)
[05:00] <ogra> lol, yup
[05:00] <Kamion> I'm just looking at parted's innards now
=== HiddenWolf huggles ogra
[05:01] <ogra> ok, he just wants to know if its possible to resize them...
[05:02] <thom> Kamion: you wanna generate them torrents then? :-)
[05:02] <ogra> even if i'm confused/ing
[05:03] <Kamion> ogra: anyway, it looks to me as if parted just writes out some extended partition table layout that works, and the user doesn't have to worry about it
[05:03] <ogra> i shall tell you its a guy from ipswitch asking ;)
[05:03] <ogra> -t
[05:03] <Kamion> thom: hm, d'oh
[05:04] <Kamion> ogra: i.e. you resize the logical partitions to what you want and let parted take care of where the extended partition goes
[05:04] <ogra> ah, ok... i'll tell him...
[05:05] <ogra> sorry, was a bit confusing around here with 5 ppl talkig to me simultaneously...on my desk
[05:05] <seb128> thom: are you going to fix firefox or should I work on it ?
[05:06] <seb128> thom: using bugzilla is getting really annoying with the jumping cursor
[05:06] <thom> seb128: i'm doing a firefox build atm
[05:06] <seb128> k, thanks :)
=== egli [~egli@gate.wyona.com]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
[05:07] <amu> daniels: Kamion: todays liveCD, boot with german keyboard and got a 104/US 
[05:08] <Kamion> amu: architecture?
[05:08] <Kamion> keyboard type?
[05:08] <thom> torrents should have love, now
[05:08] <Kamion> (i.e. AT/USB)
[05:08] <Kamion> what kind of love?
[05:08] <amu> Kamion: i386
[05:08] <thom> Kamion: well, downloadable via BT love
[05:08] <Kamion> thom: array-5 torrents generated and syncing now
[05:09] <Kamion> thom: how'd you do that before I created the metafiles?
[05:09] <amu> Kamion: laptop
[05:09] <thom> i musta rsynced just after you did them
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[05:09] <Kamion> possibly while I was doing them
[05:10] <thom> possibly, redone
[05:10] <Kamion> ta
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[05:14] <sivang> Kamion: Is the stuff you once told me about preseeing the d-i localechooser holds for casper as well?
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=== mvo leaves to play a bit of hockey, bbl
[05:28] <pitti> Keybuk: ping again
[05:29] <Keybuk> ello?
[05:29] <pitti> I again have a conffile problem/question
[05:29] <pitti> Keybuk: at currently ships /etc/at.deny as root:root 0600
[05:30] <pitti> Keybuk: my derooted version ships it as root:daemon 0640
[05:30] <pitti> Keybuk: however, if I just install the new deb, the permissions aren't changed
[05:30] <pitti> Keybuk: thus I need to do some postinst magic
[05:30] <pitti> Keybuk: do you think it is Policy conformant to just chown/chmod if upgrading from an earlier version than the one I currently do?
[05:30] <Keybuk> yeah, ancient dpkg bug; doesn't change permissions on conffiles
[05:31] <pitti> Keybuk: or will this interfere/do I have to check for dpkg-statoverride?
[05:31] <Keybuk> I guess you'd have to check for statoverride
[05:31] <pitti> Keybuk: I thought so
[05:31] <pitti> Keybuk: but _if_ there is a statoverride, I must not change it, right?
[05:31] <Keybuk> right
[05:31] <pitti> Keybuk: however, at will fail to run then
[05:32] <pitti> Keybuk: the jobs are still executed, but you can't call at/atq/atrm etc. as user any more
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[05:32] <pitti> Keybuk: thus if there's a statoverride, should the postinst just fail?
[05:32] <Keybuk> how do you know?  maybe they statoverride to do their own de-rooting
[05:33] <Keybuk> I'd just silently ignore it
[05:33] <Keybuk> and if it fails, that's their own fault
[05:33] <pitti> Keybuk: hmm, okay
[05:33] <pitti> Keybuk: that won't be the common case anyway
[05:33] <Keybuk> I'd doubt there's a single case
[05:35] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, but if I don't check for statoverride, elmo will throw the next "you did not check, dude" bug at me :-)
[05:36] <Kamion> sivang: see rootskel/src/sbin/env2debconf and the d-i manual for how that stuff works
[05:37] <sivang> Kamion: k
=== thom throws large rocks at bittorrent, idly
=== lamont hands thom some cats for good measure
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[05:40] <zul> lamont: im good with what we were talking about in the email kernel policy and such
[05:40] <zul> hey dilinger 
[05:42] <lamont> zul: cool
[05:48] <pitti> Hi dilinger
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[05:51] <jani> ogra, I'm here
[05:51] <ogra> yup
[05:51] <jani> so did you build a deb or ran lintian on the source changes file?
[05:52] <jani> on the source changes both linda  and lintian are quiet for me
[05:52] <ogra> jani: i ran it through pbuilder which does everything automatially (including lintian)
[05:53] <jani> ooh, have not use pbuilder so far
[05:53] <ogra> jani: i always try to behave like the buildd does when building a binary (after i looked at the files indeed)
[05:53] <jani> will go and see about pbuilder now
[05:54] <jani> but I suppose you got the warnings on the deb file
[05:54] <jani> I remember having (and ignoring those)
[05:54] <jani> so if upstream does not have a manpage should I write it?
[05:54] <smurfix> lamont: console-data doesn't seem to get retried any more ..?
[05:55] <jani> and 2) I suppose I'll need to see about quieting 'scripts not executable warings'
[05:56] <ogra> jani: yup
[05:56] <ogra> jani: sorry, i'm not that much into ruby to help on details beyond the packaging here :/
[05:57] <jani> ogra, thanks everything you said so far was helpful :)
[05:57] <lamont> smurfix: I requeued it once... checking
[05:57] <jani> ogra: I'll see about fixing it then will return hopefully tonight :)
[05:58] <smurfix> lamont: keymapper should now be actually installable in main :-/
[05:58] <ogra> jani: yup, go ahead....;)
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[06:08] <metalikop> ogra: I have a lintian package that you may be able to answer
[06:08] <metalikop> E: gnome-mud: python-script-but-no-python-dep ./usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-mud/C/monitor.py
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[06:08] <metalikop> I have python2.4-dev in my deps
[06:08] <FF839> good morning everyone
[06:08] <metalikop> why would i be reporting this error?
[06:09] <FF839> is anyone here from the unbuntu laptop team, I have a question about HP laptops, and if any support the the hardware exists yet...
[06:09] <tseng> FF839: best way to check hardware support is to grab an array5 livecd
[06:10] <tseng> FF839: the current testing livecds have the same hardware detection as the installer
[06:10] <lamont> smurfix: kicked yet again
[06:10] <tseng> FF839: in the future, this is an #ubuntu question.
[06:11] <FF839> ah ok. I understand. thank you for the help tseng, even if i was asking in the wrong chan.
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[06:16] <ogra> metalikop: erm, what does this file in the gnome help section ?
[06:16] <metalikop> honestly, I don't know why that's in the help section.
[06:16] <metalikop> Perhaps that's a question for the upstream packager
[06:17] <metalikop> ogra: It's a demo script for Gnome-MUD
[06:18] <ogra> i guess so...
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[06:18] <metalikop> I can't see any other place to drop that other then help
[06:18] <ogra> did you put it there ?
[06:18] <metalikop> A demo Python script for Gnome-MUD with PyGTK which adds a hello world button and some input/output filters along with a status display to show health and mana levels for a CD mudlib based LPmud.
[06:18] <metalikop> ogra: no, that was in the debian/unstable package as well.
[06:18] <ogra> ah
[06:18] <rburton> so i'm trying to boot the hoary live cd
[06:19] <rburton> and it's spinning on scanning for wireless interfaces
[06:19] <rburton> and not finding my wireless interface
[06:20] <rburton> dmesg is showing eth0: Association failed
[06:20] <rburton> which is probably as it's WEPd
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[06:21] <dilinger> pitti, zul: hello
[06:21] <trukulo> jdub, u there?
[06:21] <ogra> he is asleep
[06:22] <elmo> smurfix: I assume this console-keymaps-tree is destined for main too?
[06:22] <trukulo> ogra, u talking to me ?
[06:22] <ogra> yup
[06:22] <ogra> trukulo ^
[06:22] <trukulo> :) thx olivier
[06:23] <trukulo> i only wanna ask him about templates in new file in warty
[06:23] <ogra> trukulo: i'm not french ;) (drop the second i)
[06:23] <trukulo> ogra, ok, then oliver (benji)
[06:24] <haggai> oohh!  openoffice.org2_1.9.76-0ubuntu4_20050217-1238-i386-successful
[06:24] <trukulo> haggai, cool !
[06:24] <ogra> yay yay yay !!!
[06:24] <sivang> haggai: woooooooooooo
[06:25] <tseng> haggai++
[06:25] <trukulo> ogra, do you know anything about empty templates when you use right button on desktop and new file?
=== haggai uploads openoffice.org-debian-files
[06:25] <haggai> 2
=== sivang sees how about 50% of openoffice hebrew localization problem just fade away...
[06:25] <haggai> sivang: erm, langpack isn't finished yet
[06:25] <trukulo> sorry, i think is for #ubuntu , but if problem persist would be good to have templates working on hoary
[06:26] <ogra> trukulo: there is a dir  to put them in....
[06:26] <trukulo> ogra, can you give me a link to read please?
[06:26] <sivang> haggai: sure, but the rtl improvements are in the main oo packages I think
[06:26] <trukulo> i'm looking in google
[06:27] <ogra> trukulo: got nothing hand  atm...wait
[06:27] <trukulo> but i think it would be very good to have templates installed by default
[06:27] <trukulo> that's the thing
[06:27] <haggai> sivang: ah right, well please let me know if you find problems
[06:27] <ogra> trukulo: yeah... we need only empty files of a mime type in the templates dir...and they will show up....
[06:28] <sivang> haggai: as soon as you the pkgs are done for downloading, I will throw some tests :)
[06:28] <smurfix> elmo: It's an udeb, along with the other console-keymaps-whatever udebs. So ...
=== ogra applauds haggai
[06:28] <trukulo> ogra, so , perhaps we can have tempaltes for writer, calc and impress, at least
[06:29] <smurfix> Gah, I should know by now that this ppc thing is actually named "powerpc". :-/
[06:32] <ogra> trukulo: ah, its in the "places" menu in nautilus....
[06:36] <trukulo> i'm in warty
[06:36] <trukulo> there's no place menu
[06:36] <trukulo> sorry about the noise
[06:36] <ogra> trukulo: if you write a patch for nautilus to have these files there, it will probably get included, ask seb128 if its not to late, he is responsible for the package....
[06:37] <lamont> smurfix: is this a known error?
[06:37] <lamont>  /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch
[06:37] <lamont> make: *** No rule to make target `decision-tree-powerpc', needed by `decision-tree'.  Stop.
[06:38] <trukulo> ogra, we only need a package to put emplate files htere, isn't it?
[06:38] <smurfix> lamont: already uploaded a new version
[06:38] <lamont> doh
[06:38] <smurfix> lamont: see my comment ten minutes ago ;-)
[06:39] <seb128> ogra: no, already discussed that's local's admin decision to provide templates
[06:39] <ogra> trukulo: see seb128 ....
[06:39] <lamont> smurfix: heh
[06:39] <thom> bah. i just turned pango off in firefox and *now* i get the text entry weirdness
[06:40] <thom> i hate you all!
[06:40] <trukulo> seb128, but users?
[06:40] <sivang> thom: eheh, we LOVE you thom :)
[06:40] <trukulo> at lesat, a package they can install
[06:40] <smurfix> lamont: Yeah. I figure that if I only make stupid mistakes like this which don't actually hurt anybody, I'll be OK. ;-)
[06:40] <lamont> lol
[06:40] <trukulo> then it's admin decission
[06:41] <sivang> seb128: do you have any idea about the vaugeness of #1369 and #1368 ?
[06:41] <seb128> trukulo: feel to do whatever on your box if that's the question :p
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[06:41] <seb128> thom: nice :)
[06:42] <seb128> thom: does it fix it in epiphany ? :p
[06:42] <sivang> guys, selecting "RC Bugs" in bugzilla is what I need to do to view all release critical bugs?
[06:42] <seb128> trukulo: creating some templates in your box should be easy, you don't need packages for that
[06:42] <Kamion> metalikop: is it #!/usr/bin/python or #!/usr/bin/python2.4?
[06:42] <thom> seb128: nope
[06:42] <trukulo> seb128, ok, ok, i only ask because users are very dumb
[06:42] <trukulo> i have no problem about it
[06:42] <thom> seb128: with the version in unstable, neither epiphany or firefox does it for me
[06:43] <seb128> :/
[06:44] <thom> hrm. this is getting weirder by the second
[06:44] <Kamion> elmo: console-keymaps-tree will be depended on by smurfix' keyboard selector eventually, even if it isn't seeded yet
[06:44] <thom> just purged and reinstalled ephy, and now firefox doesn't do it but ephy does
[06:44] <thom> WTF?
[06:44] <seb128> good question 
[06:45] <thom> i'm gonna have to binary search all the firefox patches and work out what is causing this
[06:46] <thom> seb128: guess you'll have to use firefox till i work out what's going on ;-)
[06:46] <seb128> no way
[06:47] <seb128> I guess I'll stop using bugzilla till you work you what's going on :)
[06:47] <seb128> should I reassign my bugs to you during this time ? :p
[06:47] <sivang> LOL
[06:48] <thom> i'll just blame gtk and reassign all my firefox bugs to you then ;-P
[06:48] <seb128> bah
[06:49] <seb128> since gtk is already reassigned to you by the previous action I don't care :p
[06:49] <thom> so you're saying you would swap gtk and firefox?
[06:49] <thom> lets go!
[06:50] <seb128> no no no, I just offer you gtk 
[06:50] <seb128> I'm nice, I don't ask any favor/firefox :)
[06:50] <seb128> you can take it for free
[06:51] <thom> no, i couldn't
[06:51] <seb128> bah, I should stop talking and let you fix firefox so :)
=== seb128 bbl 
=== T-None is now known as T-Bone
[06:52] <lamont> 'lo T-Bone 
=== lamont tries to remember if it's his turn in the barrel this week
[06:52] <T-Bone> lamont: howdy buddy! :)
[06:52] <lamont> prolly
[06:52] <T-Bone> lamont: as you wish. If you want to upload today it's better you handle it. My set of patch isn't ready yet
[06:53] <lamont> daniels around?
=== T-Bone ^5s Kamion for fixing Array5 ;^)
=== T-Bone laughs at lamont's emails :)
=== lamont makes a note to go fetch array 5 sometime soon
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[06:56] <lamont> T-Bone: glad to channel irc for you any day, buddy. :-)
[06:56] <T-Bone> LOL. I owe you some :)
[06:56] <T-Bone> ok let's go for wiki editing then. I'll do the patch-monkey afterwards
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[07:02] <seb128> elmo: around ?
[07:06] <mantiena> seb128, you are gnome-panel ubuntu maintainer ?
[07:06] <seb128> correct
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[07:09] <mantiena> seb128, I have one question - why "Log out" is in System menu (previously named Desktop) while "New Login" is in "Applications"->"System Tools" ?
[07:09] <seb128> because "log out" is a system feature
[07:10] <seb128> and "new login" is an application
[07:10] <seb128> you can argue que "New Login" is a bad title :)
[07:10] <lamont> t-bone/zul: I'm thinking we'll play the other schedule this weekend...  I'll work on collecting patches over the next 24 hours say, and then try to have a kernel built and maybe even tested somewhat by saturday, then finish testing on monday and be ready to upload then.  Thoughts?
[07:11] <mantiena> seb128, "New login" is a featue from users view
[07:11] <zul> sounds good to me i should be home tonight to do some more patches 
[07:11] <mantiena> "New login" is good title
[07:11] <mantiena> just in wrong place
[07:11] <seb128> I don't think so
[07:11] <mantiena> seb128, Windows XP has same feature
[07:11] <T-Bone> lamont: fine by me. Most of my processing power will be available starting tomorrow noon. Mind i'll probably have a significant changeset :P
[07:12] <mantiena> seb128, "Take screenshot..." is also an application
[07:12] <mantiena> bug from users view is a system feature
[07:12] <seb128> mantiena: not really
[07:12] <seb128> right, but "new login" is really an app, it doesn't work as you expect/as winXP
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[07:13] <seb128> ie: how do you switch back to the previous user ?
[07:13] <seb128> (ctrl-alt-F<n> is not obvious for an user)
[07:13] <mantiena> seb128, simmilar like in windows XP - just logout from newly logged user and you are back into previous user ;) anyway, I just want to make ubuntu more consistent and user-friendly
[07:14] <seb128> no
[07:14] <seb128> you can switch without closing on winXP
[07:14] <seb128> here if you don't know the ctrl-alt-F<n> you can't
[07:14] <mantiena> seb128, implementation doesn't matter
[07:14] <seb128> it does, if that's not ready that should not be exposed
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[07:15] <rburton> wasn't jimbob working on a user switching applet?
=== HiddenWolf would love to see that. 
=== mantiena too
[07:16] <seb128> rburton: dunno
[07:16] <rburton> it was more a retorical question
[07:16] <rburton> the answer is "yes"
[07:17] <seb128> yeah, and the dunno is "link ?" :)
[07:17] <mantiena> ;)
[07:19] <rburton> i can't find it
[07:19] <rburton> how annoyin
[07:19] <lamont> seb128: I still think you should use evolution instead of apache.  :-)
[07:19] <Nafallo> I've seen mails on -devel about rt2500. is there a status on that mather?
[07:20] <seb128> lamont: gni ?
[07:20] <zul> Nafallo: is there a bug open about it?
[07:20] <lamont> seb128: nm
[07:21] <Nafallo> zul: probably not.
[07:21] <zul> Nafallo: can you open one thanks
[07:21] <Nafallo> zul: my concern is more NOT to have it ;-).
[07:21] <Nafallo> zul: there is a rebuild of that driver going on...
[07:21] <zul> gah..ok ill have to check the mailing list then
=== lamont giggles
[07:22] <lamont> smurfix|asleep: 3+1=4
[07:22] <lamont> ah, and so it does
[07:23] <Kamion> hmm, I think there may be a lot of drivers that do PCI device detection in non-hotplug-friendly ways
[07:23] <Kamion> #6681 doesn't seem to be unique judging from the length of modules.pcimap
[07:23] <T-Bone> Kamion: welcome to my world :^)
[07:23] <Kamion> heh
[07:24] <HiddenWolf> T-bone: My thoughts and prayers go with you. Now fix it. ;-)
[07:24] <mantiena> seb128, btw, I'm not only one, which thinks, that "New login" should be in same place with logout, look at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102707
[07:25] <Kamion> maybe for hoary we should extend hotplug to support a pci.handmap, and just copy a big pile of stuff from discover1-data
[07:25] <lamont> "Funeral benefits  (one time only)"
[07:25] <T-Bone> Kamion: that would certainly ease up a lot of things.
[07:25] <HiddenWolf> kamion: any side effects? 
[07:26] <T-Bone> Kamion: it's not likely that all hotplug-unfriendly drivers are gonna be fixed tomorrow... Some of them are very evil toward hotplug-friendlyness
[07:26] <T-Bone> lamont: heh :)
[07:26] <seb128> mantiena: no offence but you still find some people wanting the same stuff as you
[07:27] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: well, that's part of what I'm wondering. I wouldn't think so ...
=== HiddenWolf is dumb and equates added code to slower boot, but can't really give it a lot of thought. I've got a bit of a date ;)
=== HiddenWolf goes off to powder his nose
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[07:35] <T-Bone> hmm. so my G5 is running 'on battery', heh?
[07:35] <T-Bone> how comes i can't find the boot messages in the logs :P
=== lamont would like to know why his laptop started believeing that the battery is dead all the time, too
[07:36] <dredg> cos it's a g5 and suffers from apple 'you don't need to know' syndrome, despite the os it's running? :)
[07:36] <T-Bone> dredg: i doubt that's the problem, alas :P
[07:37] <zul> because ppc suck?
[07:37] <Kamion> thpppppppt
[07:38] <zul> heh
[07:38] <T-Bone> zul: it's so obviously the remark of some jealous guy not having the extraordinary chance to 0wnZ such a fantastic hardware, I won't say anytning about it :^)
=== T-Bone runs away laughing to hell ;D
[07:39] <zul> This is what I saw:
[07:39] <zul> T-Bone: blah blah blah :^)
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[07:40] <dholbach> hai
[07:40] <dredg> T-Bone: or refuses to spend silly amounts of cash on a shiny piece of plastic that reduces masculinity to nil in it's male owners? :)
[07:40] <Kamion> them's fightin' words
=== dredg laughs
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[07:45] <T-Bone> Kamion: no need to fight. Supremacy is overwhelming. All his bases are belong to me now ;^)
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[07:49] <T-Bone> Kamion, lamont : how is it acceptable to make SCSI builtin on ia64?
[07:49] <T-Bone> actually it's about scsi_mod only, afaict
[07:53] <lamont> T-Bone: both of my ia64 boxen have scsi
[07:53] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah. I'm just asking for 'policy' and/or if it may break things in d-i
[07:53] <T-Bone> if i get a clearance from Kamion I guess that's alright :)
=== T-Bone is preparing -20 which will probably be -21 anyway
[07:54] <lamont> well, if you make it not a module (either always there or always gone, then you have to take itout of the d-i module list, that's for sure...)
[07:54] <lamont> hrm... move that ) left a few inches
[07:54] <T-Bone> yeah
[07:55] <lamont> heh.  my mirror only has 2 more linux-image debs to go, and then it gets to catch up on the other 116 files that were out of date a couple days ago
[07:56] <lamont> actually, that's as of 16 hours ago.
[07:56] <T-Bone> hehe
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[07:56] <Kamion> T-Bone: not bothered either way as long as the module list's updated
[08:02] <T-Bone> Kamion: roger that. Fixing the kernel. Will test array-5 in a minute, then make sure the new kernel works fine
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[08:07] <lamont> T-Bone: testing array 5 on which arch?
[08:07] <T-Bone> ia64
=== T-Bone points lamont at the other window btw ;)
[08:08] <zul> has anyone tried pearpc with the ubuntu live cd?
[08:12] <zul> or am i just on crack
[08:12] <T-Bone> aren't you always? :)
=== T-Bone hides!
[08:12] <zul> shaddup
[08:12] <T-Bone> hehe
[08:13] <T-Bone> truth told, i should have said "aren't we always?", to be fair :)
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[08:24] <jani> anybody knows whether lintian's complaints about missing exec bit on scripts with shebang..
[08:24] <jani> ..are ok for files in /usr/lib ?
[08:24] <crimsun> they're fine; see the changelog for 1.23.1
[08:24] <crimsun> they've been demoted to warnings iirc
[08:25] <jani> I know they're warnings, but I was told elmo does not accept packages with warnings in them :)
[08:25] <crimsun> + [FL]  Demote executable-in-usr-lib-menu to warning as executables are supported (but seldomly used) (Closes: #254498)
[08:25] <jani> so is a package with those warnings OK?
[08:25] <ogra> crimsun: usr-lib-menu
[08:26] <crimsun> ogra: right, I just noted that.
[08:26] <jani> oh no, not menu, that's something else.
[08:26] <jani> I mean having /usr/lib/python/xmlmodule.py (fictive)
[08:26] <jani> witha shebang line but no exec bit
[08:27] <jani> I'll look up the reference I saw about it on google.
[08:27] <zul> mjg59: i made a clean patch of your acpi stuff you sent me yesterday
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[08:33] <sivang> sladen: where would you say would be a good place for the hd swap order page on the wiki?
[08:34] <jani> http://www.talkaboutsoftware.com/group/linux.debian.maint.python/messages/629.html
[08:35] <jani> OTOH I saw another post by mdz saying something else
[08:35] <jani> http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2004/10/msg00277.html
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[08:36] <sivang> seb128: user switching applet? that is in switch a user and stay in gnome-session?
[08:36] <sivang> seb128: (reading through the backlog)
[08:36] <ogra> jani: i would go with the latter
[08:36] <crimsun> agreed.
[08:36] <jani> ogra:is it ok then to change permission on files, even though those changes are not reflected in the diff?
[08:36] <ogra> jani: but i dont know enough about ruby to decide if the program still works afterwards :-P
[08:37] <jani> or do I change them from a script/makefile
[08:37] <crimsun> that changes will be reflected in debian/rules, no, if one chmods it/them?
[08:37] <jani> ogra: it's the same as with any shebanged script it can be run with ruby scriptname :)
[08:37] <ogra> citing mdz: Just make them non-executable and remove
[08:37] <ogra> any #! line. 
[08:38] <jani> ok will do that, then reupload them.but now I'll have to go eating :)
[08:38] <ogra> jani: ok, then do the above.... thanks for the info ;) (i really never saw ruby internals)
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[08:38] <robertj> sivang: I would think user switching is running multiple X sessions on the same box
[08:39] <sivang> robertj: hmm, can that be achived? I thought that X wouldn't run more then once
[08:39] <sivang> robertj: (on a given system)
[08:39] <robertj> sivang: AFAIK it works ok if your video plays friendly, I could be wrong
[08:39] <rburton> sivang: i do it daily
[08:39] <rburton> it's trivial
[08:39] <robertj> I thought Lindows and Xandros was supposed to do it
[08:39] <ogra> sivang: it can run on different consoles
[08:40] <sivang> rburton: ok, now you got me interested :) did you write an howto on the wiki ?
[08:40] <ogra> DISPLAY=0.0 DISPLAY=0.1 etc
[08:40] <rburton> sivang: default X is on :0. just create another on :1, :2, etc
[08:40] <rburton> sivang: how else would Apps->System Tools->New Login work?
[08:41] <sivang> rburton: bah, I probably overlooked that in the menu :)
[08:42] <sivang> rburton: wow cool!
[08:43] <sivang> rburton: so, is there a switch user applet on the workd? is it going ot be gnome upstream?
[08:43] <rburton> i thought there was one
[08:43] <rburton> but i can't find it anywhere
[08:43] <tritium> The second user doesn't get sound, though, with New Login
[08:43] <rburton> tritium: one day when esd is dead it will work fine
[08:44] <tritium> rburton, that will be excellent
[08:45] <Kamion> jani: elmo does apply common sense to lintian warnings - some of them are just bogus
[08:45] <T-Bone> Kamion: ok. Array-5 installed fine except for the usual aptitude error after reboot. ubuntu-desktop is in 'unrecognized tasks'
[08:46] <Kamion> right, the unrecognized bit is like that on all architectures, I've been meaning to fix that since pre-warty but just haven't got round to it ...
[08:46] <T-Bone> Kamion: it also complained about unauthentified packages when i tried to install by hand
[08:47] <rburton> Kamion: are you the man to poke about live cd failures?
[08:48] <Kamion> T-Bone: hm, there seem to be some random failures in that regard, I haven't got to the bottom of them yet
[08:48] <Kamion> rburton: for this week while mdz's away, yes
[08:48] <Kamion> though I'll flounder around for a bit 'cos I only know the live CD in broad outlnie
[08:48] <Kamion> outline
[08:48] <rburton> Kamion: i tried it today, but the wireless network detector thing was just spinning
[08:48] <rburton> this is more a d-i thing though i guess
[08:49] <rburton> dmesg was reporting some error i can't recall about failing to connect to the wifi network
[08:49] <rburton> not a surprise, i've got WEP
[08:49] <rburton> "scanning for networks... " over and over again
=== mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:54] <Kamion> rburton: there's a bug open about that; mdz asked me to have a look at network configuration in general in the live CD this week, so I'll probably have a crack at it tomorrow
[08:54] <Kamion> a DEBCONF_DEBUG=20 syslog trace would be cool though in case I can't reproduce it
[08:54] <rburton> Kamion: excellent. i've got a copy of the iso on my machine now so if you think it's fixed shout and i can rsync it again
[08:55] <rburton> i presume i add that to the boot line?  (i.e. linux DEBCONF_DEBUG=20)
[08:55] <Kamion> no, I wouldn't think it's fixed
[08:55] <Kamion> 'live DEBCONF_DEBUG=20', but yeah; you then have to figure out how to get /var/log/syslog out with no network
[08:55] <rburton> hm, pencil and paper i guess
[08:55] <rburton> fun
[08:56] <Kamion> yeesh, no, it'll be way too much for that
[08:56] <Kamion> I'm happy to look at it tomorrow, which might be faster :)
[08:56] <rburton> i meant shout if you think you found the problem and a new image is built
[08:57] <rburton> it appears (without a single look at the code) to be not handling the case where there are networks but it cannot connect
[08:57] <Kamion> ah, ok, I see
[08:57] <Kamion> basically we preseed part of network configuration to try to make it go through noninteractively where possible
[08:58] <Kamion> evidently the result of how we've done it is that there's a corner case where it tries to ask a question which is preseeded to something that causes it to try to ask the question again which is preseeded to ...
[08:58] <rburton> fun
[08:58] <Kamion> there was a netcfg change upstream recently which may well help with that, if I merge it
[08:58] <Kamion> but I need to try it out
[08:59] <rburton> i was looking forward to trying hoary too
=== tritium [~tritium@12-202-90-180.client.insightBB.com]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
[08:59] <T-Bone> can somebody educate me about how one's supposed to add a fsckin hyperlink to a plone page??
[09:00] <zul> Uhhh...no
[09:00] <Kamion> what markup type?
[09:00] <Kamion> (there's a radio button at the bottom)
[09:00] <Kamion> http://zwiki.org/Editing is probably a good place to start for help
=== mpt_capetown [~mpt@dumbledore.hbd.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:06] <T-Bone> Kamion: thx that helped. BTW, finished ubuntu-desktop install. 60Hz screen (while it was better on previous test ISOs I had). A fix in xorg.conf and I'm done ;)
[09:07] <Kamion> cool
[09:07] <Kamion> -> daniels :-)
[09:07] <T-Bone> for the vertrefresh thing? :)
=== Kamion makes germinate-pkg-diff actually work when installed from germinate.deb
[09:07] <Kamion> for anything to do with X, pretty much ...
[09:07] <T-Bone> ok
[09:08] <T-Bone> Kamion: remaining fixes are the ubuntu-desktop thing (i guess i can't help there) and the Fusion driver, and I guess we'll be pretty much done with it :)
[09:08] <T-Bone> Kamion: do you think there's a chance we make it in time for Hoary?
[09:09] <Kamion> T-Bone: if the fusion driver could be done with pci.handmap or similar, that would help a lot
[09:10] <Kamion> for the ubuntu-desktop thing, I can work around it given a bit more work on debian-cd
[09:10] <Kamion> namely make it recreate boot.img with new bootloader arguments rather than just using the one debian-cd ships - and that's needed anyway for other things
[09:11] <Kamion> actually I got the deps for that installed on little a couple of days ago, should do the work now
[09:11] <T-Bone> ok
[09:12] <T-Bone> Kamion: basically i suppose fusion can be done with pci.handmap since discover manages it just fine
[09:12] <Kamion> ok
[09:12] <T-Bone> Kamion: but you'd better tell me now, because i'm about to make it builtin the next kernel release :P
[09:13] <T-Bone> Kamion: and you'd probably want to tell me how that pci.handmap is supposed to work as well :)
[09:13] <Kamion> T-Bone: ok, how about you save the work you've done so that it isn't lost, and I work on implementing pci.handmap tomorrow?
[09:13] <Kamion> well see how usb.handmap works
[09:14] <Kamion> it's stuff for drivers whose IDs the kernel doesn't expose through modutils yet
[09:14] <trulux> hey
[09:14] <Kamion> SuSE have a pci.handmap patch apparently ...
[09:19] <sivang> Kamion: mdz is off for a week from now?
=== T-Bone reads SuSE's "coldhotplug" page
[09:20] <Kamion> sivang: yes
[09:20] <Kamion> well-deserved holiday
[09:20] <sivang> ofcourse :)
[09:22] <dholbach> i currently review metalikop's gnome-mud--package - what would be the appropriate way to resolve "E: gnome-mud: python-script-but-no-python-dep ./usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-mud/C/monitor.py"  (an example script that shouldnt be executed at all)?
[09:22] <Kamion> dholbach: what is the #! line?
[09:24] <dholbach> Kamion, #!/usr/bin/env python
[09:24] <Kamion> and the dependency is on python2.4?
[09:25] <ogra> its an example script
[09:25] <Kamion> the python2.4 package does not provide a /usr/bin/python; you need to depend on python to get that
[09:25] <dholbach> yes
[09:25] <ogra> in the documentation
[09:25] <Kamion> yes, but example scripts should still work out of the box
[09:25] <ogra> ah, that was the logic i was missing :)
[09:25] <Kamion> either change the example script to python2.4, or change everything else to python and depend on python, or depend on both python2.4 and python
[09:25] <Kamion> pick one :)
[09:25] <dholbach> Kamion, thanks a lot
=== zenrox [~zenrox@wbar7.sea-4-12-028-223.dsl-verizon.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:26] <Kamion> sigh, I wish my link to little were a bit faster
=== T-Bone curses gamin
[09:28] <sivang> thom: any oppinion on #6590, maybe just disabling pango is the workaround? (I've seen everything is pretty well after that)
[09:30] <T-Bone> that bloody shit is sucking 90% of cpu during kernel builds :P
[09:30] <Kamion> ok, I think I can work around the ubuntu-desktop thing on ia64 now
[09:31] <T-Bone> Kamion: cool!
[09:31] <Kamion> now that I have figured out how to pick boot.img apart far enough to replace the bootloader configuration file
[09:31] <Kamion> and this will make the live CD work without runes on ia64 too
[09:31] <T-Bone> yay!
[09:32] <T-Bone> all hails Kamion, mighty magician of the bootloaders ;)
[09:32] <Kamion> sometimes I wish there would be just one bootloader
[09:33] <Kamion> and then I imagine what that bootloader would probably end up looking like
[09:33] <Kamion> and then I vomit
[09:33] <Kamion> and then I feel better again
[09:33] <mjg59> zul: Cool, thanks
[09:33] <T-Bone> if i may suggest something, i dunno what it's used for, but gamin looks much too me like a real piece of sh*t. As soon as disk intensive stuff happens, the slowdown is doubled by that silly program
[09:33] <Kamion> talk to jdub about gaim
[09:33] <Kamion> er, gamin
[09:33] <T-Bone> will surely do. And remove it from my boxes :P
[09:34] <T-Bone> Kamion: try not to think too often of bootloaders then, for your own sake :)
=== T-Bone goes grabing some food. bbiab
=== T-Bone is now known as T-Gone
[09:35] <Kamion> T-Gone: some of the problems gamin's had are due to inotify, which I think has recently been disabled
[09:35] <Kamion> and gamin has gone back to dnotify, if I remember correctly
=== `anthony [~anthony@220-253-0-12.VIC.netspace.net.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:47] <metalikop> Any devels or MOTUs here that can approve a package/me for MOTU status?
[09:47] <ogra> Kamion: got a second ?
[09:48] <ogra> for me...not for a review....
[09:51] <Kamion> ogra: sure
=== Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:55] <Mitario> hi everyone
[09:55] <sivang> mjg59: ping
[09:55] <mjg59> sivang: Hi
[09:55] <sivang> hey Mitario 
[09:55] <sivang> mjg59: what's up? just finally installed new xorg pkgs, and laid off that buggery nvidia proprierity module :)
[09:55] <sivang> mjg59: so, /etc/acpi/sleep.sh to send my inspirion to sleep?
[09:57] <mjg59> sivang: Yeah, or fn+escape
[09:58] <mjg59> (With luck)
[09:58] <sivang> mjg59: ok, let's try ;-) don't I have to install *anything* ?
[09:58] <Mitario> jdub, here?
[09:59] <mjg59> sivang: No, only thing you need to do is enable sleep in /etc/default/acpi-support
[10:00] <sivang> mjg59: had anyone been working on gmoem integration for this? I'd be interested.
[10:00] <sivang> s/gmoem/gnome/
[10:00] <mjg59> sivang: Yup. I thought it ought to work now, but I can't get it to.
[10:00] <mjg59> I'll hassle seb next time he turns up.
[10:03] <sivang> mjg59: ok, if there anything you woudl like to get done, or somebody poking at let me know bug numbers or source pkgs to dwelve into. I think it may not be that hard to itnegrate in into the desktop.
[10:04] <zul> wohoo...22 more minutes and im going home
[10:06] <mjg59> sivang: The infrastructure exists, it just needs to be hooked up into the ui with gdm support
[10:06] <mjg59> But nobody's told me what the current state of that is, so.
[10:06] <sivang> mjg59: ok, it WORKED!
[10:06] <mjg59> sivang: Rock
[10:06] <sivang> mjg59: RAWKING!!!!!!!1
[10:06] <mjg59> I accept payment in money, beer or love
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
[10:07] <sivang> mjg59: I can love you and buy you a beer if we meet :)
[10:07] <mjg59> Hurrah!
[10:07] <sivang> mjg59: do you need fanboys?
[10:07] <rburton> mjg59 has plently of fanboys
[10:07] <mjg59> I have some fanboys already, but I always accept more
[10:07] <T-Bone> yummy "/bin/sh: line 1: 8259 Illegal instruction   ld -r -o crypto/tea.ko crypto/tea.o crypto/tea.mod.o
[10:07] <sivang> mjg59: ok, then you can add me to the list 
[10:08] <T-Bone> Kamion: i'm running -19, obviously this doesn't prevent gamin from screwing me :)
[10:08] <T-Bone> lamont: you told me you've already seen those?
[10:08] <sivang> mjg59: btw, it doesn't suspend when I close the lid
[10:10] <sivang> mjg59: only when I manually execute the sleep.sh script
[10:10] <mjg59> sivang: Yeah. We don't currently make lid events do suspend.
[10:10] <lamont> T-Bone: SIGILL on ppc?
[10:10] <lamont> yeah.  those are "normal".
[10:11] <lamont> fix that. kthxbye
[10:11] <mjg59> lamont: What's the timescale for -20?
[10:11] <lamont> there's a bug in bz for it
[10:11] <T-Bone> *sigh*
[10:11] <sivang> mjg59: when I come back from suspend, can the screenserver password dialog be turned off?
[10:11] <mjg59> sivang: Yeah. /etc/default/acpi-support
[10:11] <lamont> mjg59: thinking monday-ish unless someone really screams - with the abi event, I want to scrape everything we can for maximum bug-fix winning
[10:11] <T-Bone> lamont: how am i supposed to resume the build without rebuilding everything then? -nc won't do i suppose?
[10:11] <sivang> mjg59: ah cool, and the lid thing is just hooking an event right? how would I do that if I wanted to?
[10:12] <mjg59> lamont: Ok - are you grabbing those PPC sleep patches?
[10:12] <lamont> T-Bone: in the data center, we just give it back
[10:12] <mjg59> sivang: Edit /etc/acpi/lid.sh
[10:12] <lamont> mjg59: certainly
[10:12] <mjg59> lamont: Sweet
[10:12] <lamont> will grab them tonight or tomorrow
[10:12] <mjg59> lamont: If those work, I have another patch for adding suspend to disk for PPC
[10:12] <T-Bone> lamont: i think zul already had. I was about to grab them but he told me he did
[10:13] <T-Bone> lamont: i'll revert the Fusion change as well, Kamion has a better idea with pci.handmap
[10:13] <zul> the powerpc ones?
[10:13] <T-Bone> zul: yeah
[10:13] <zul> T-Bone: nope i didnt 
[10:13] <T-Bone> zul: you told me you did 'a little'
[10:13] <sivang> mjg59: what does HIBERNATE_MODE=shutdown
[10:14] <sivang> mjg59: mean?
[10:14] <zul> the one that mjg59 sent me
[10:14] <zul> T-Bone: sorry didnt make it clear
[10:14] <T-Bone> zul: that's already something then. Let's have lamont not do extra unnecessary work :)
[10:14] <zul> ok
[10:15] <sivang> mjg59: also is it possilbe to use MODULES="" to include the nvidia module or is it's non acpi compliant nature prevents this?
[10:15] <mjg59> sivang: It means that when you suspend to disk, it uses the standard Linux shutdown mechanism to power down the machine
[10:15] <sivang> mjg59: ok, and "platform" means I use acpi's ?
[10:15] <mjg59> sivang: You might actually be able to get away with the latest propriatory nvidia drivers
[10:15] <mjg59> Yeah, platform means Use ACPI to cut the power
[10:15] <mjg59> The other alternative is reboot, which is mostly good for testing
[10:15] <lamont> zul: were you working on mjg59's sleep patches?
[10:15] <Kamion> T-Bone,lamont: ok, I think I've made debian-cd fix up ia64 bootloader configuration properly on the fly, so either tomorrow's live CD or the one after that should work without runes
[10:16] <lamont> Kamion: way cool
[10:16] <zul> lamont: that is correct..
[10:16] <Kamion> T-Bone,lamont: also, I've made the ia64 CD use the "ia64-hack.seed" preseed file, which installs the ubuntu-desktop package rather than the ubuntu-desktop task
[10:16] <lamont> zul: then I won't worry about them.
[10:16] <zul> lamont, ok fine :)
[10:16] <Kamion> that should work around the lack of architecture-specific Task: headers for now, although I'd rather this hack went away for hoary
[10:17] <zul> lamont: this patch -> acpi-20050211-2.6.11-rc4.diff
[10:17] <lamont> mjg59: and these are different from the tosh acpi driver that edd gave fabbione?
[10:17] <Kamion> hm, actually I'll build a new live CD now, even though the boot screens will be wrong
[10:17] <sivang> mjg59: I'll talk to thom and seb about the desktop integration of this, maybe it would be my way to love the patches back some.
[10:17] <T-Bone> Kamion: cool. Please let me know how you want to integrate the handmap stuff
[10:18] <Kamion> I'll ponder that overnight
[10:18] <mjg59> lamont: That patch has nothing to do with the Toshiba driver
[10:18] <lamont> woot
[10:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: awesome!. I'll be fully available tomorrow 13 CET ;)
[10:18] <mjg59> lamont: The acpi- patch fixes stuff on a small number of machines (notably battery detection on the Panasonic R1). The PPC stuff adds sleep support for newer Mac laptops. The Toshiba ACPI stuff makes hotkeys work on some Toshibas.
=== T-Bone wonders if that would fix the strange bugs he's seeing on his g5
[10:19] <mjg59> T-Bone: Mm?
[10:20] <T-Bone> mjg59: the silly box seems to think it's running on battery. Fsck says 'not fscking: on battery" at boot or something.
[10:20] <sivang> mjg59: shocked I just read your commentm about the nvidia drivers, did they add acpi compliance?
[10:20] <T-Bone> the fact is I can't find the boot messages in any logfile, wonder how's that
[10:22] <Kamion> http://weddell.buildd/%7Ebuildd/livecd/livecd-current.cloop:
[10:22] <Kamion> 21:20:37 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
[10:22] <Kamion> lamont?
[10:23] <mjg59> T-Bone: On a G5 desktop? Mad.
[10:23] <mjg59> Sounds like a fsck bug.
[10:23] <T-Bone> mjg59: just as you say :)
[10:23] <sivang> mjg59: hmm, hibernate seem to not work, do I need to enable it also / other ?
[10:23] <mjg59> I don't think my stuff will touch that
[10:23] <mjg59> sivang: You need to edit /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf and set RESUME
[10:23] <T-Bone> mjg59: there are a couple of other weirdness. Sadly. nothing gets logged.
[10:23] <mjg59> Then rebuild your ramdisk
[10:23] <mjg59> sivang: if you've got a hibernate button, it's unlikely to work
[10:23] <T-Bone> is that a policy, do i have to toggle some magic option to get boot scripts message logged?
[10:24] <sivang> mjg59: no, I tried ./hibernate.sh
[10:24] <sjoerd> T-Bone: you pmu procfile will show that you've got no ac power and no battery.. the init script probably only looks at the ac field then :)
[10:25] <T-Bone> sjoerd: good hint ;)
[10:26] <lamont> Kamion: hrmpf
=== lamont checks
[10:26] <Mithrandir> mjg59: isn't it enough to set resume in menu.lst?
[10:27] <lamont> Kamion: ew.
[10:27] <lamont> last successful livecd rootfs build on ia64 was 20050211.3 - and the job to remove old images has removed it...
[10:27] <Kamion> d'oh
[10:27] <lamont> choices: use what you already have, or (2) wait while I figure out why it's busted
[10:28] <sivang> Mithrandir: why do you need to set up resume and menu.lst?
[10:28] <Kamion> I don't already have anything ...
[10:28] <Mithrandir> sivang: on the kernel command line?
[10:28] <Kamion> unless I pick it out of a previous image somehow
[10:29] <Kamion> unfortunately this breaks powerpc CDs as well due to alphabetical ordering :)
[10:31] <sivang> Mithrandir: I didn't know it is needed ;-) sorry, this is the way resume is implemented?
[10:31] <Mithrandir> sivang: I thought so, at least
[10:31] <lamont> Kamion: fresh build running
[10:32] <mjg59> Mithrandir: That will also work
[10:33] <lamont> Kamion: it might even work.
[10:33] <mjg59> Mithrandir: But setting it in mkinitrd.conf is probably how things will be shipped
[10:33] <Mithrandir> mjg59: ok
=== jani [~pet@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[10:35] <Kamion> lamont: was it just a dirty chroot? error message suggests that ..
[10:36] <Kamion> boot script logging> /etc/default/bootlogd
[10:38] <lamont> uh, yeah
[10:38] <lamont> machine went disk-full the other day...
=== T-Bone wonders how a regular user is supposed to report boot problems with bootlogd disabled bydefault :P
[10:38] <lamont> and something had /dev open in the chroot
[10:38] <lamont> s/open/busy/
[10:40] <T-Bone> bootlogd: ioctl( <blah>|TIO_CONS) failed
[10:40] <Kamion> lamont: ah, oops
[10:40] <T-Bone> i suppose this is the issue
[10:40] <Kamion> er, a regular user can press ctrl-s :P
[10:40] <sivang> T-Bone: rather phylosophical question :)
[10:40] <Kamion>   * Do not run bootlogd by default - it's a bit to experimental for
[10:40] <Kamion>     the "stable" release. Can be turned on manually (closes: #217582)
[10:42] <lamont> EGRAMMAR
[10:43] <zul> right ill be back later...going home now
=== Kamion wonders whether to wait for the live CD build or go to the pub
[10:46] <Simira> Kamion: wait for the live CD build at the pub?
[10:48] <Kamion> well I'd like to kick off my part of it so that somebody can try it out so that I can fix stuff later ...
[10:49] <Kamion> oof, firefox segfaulted ...
[10:49] <Kamion> Setting up mozilla-firefox (1.0+dfsg.1-2ubuntu5) ...
[10:49] <Kamion> Updating mozilla-firefox chrome registry.../usr/sbin/update-mozilla-firefox-chrome: line 95:  3455 Segmentation fault      firefox-bin -register >/dev/null 2>&1
[10:49] <Kamion> E: Registration process existed with status: 139
[10:50] <Mithrandir> I'm sure thom loves you for that
[10:50] <thom> joy
[10:50] <Kamion> (ia64)
[10:51] <Mithrandir> I'm sure he loves you even more for that
[10:51] <thom> really? my ia64 installed firefox ok
=== farruinn [~nathan@cpe-69-201-9-15.twcny.res.rr.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-36-111.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:53] <sivang> hey seb128, what's the status of power managment integration in the desktop? I'm interested in giving a hand.
[10:53] <seb128> what do you mean ?
[10:54] <sivang> seb128: where are you with it? have you done the patch for the logout menu to offer hibernation/ suspend this kind of stuff.
[10:54] <seb128> no
[10:55] <seb128> but afaik there is only the logout dialog to handle
[10:55] <seb128> that's not a ton of stuff
[10:56] <sivang> seb128: do we have a bug report about it?
[10:56] <seb128> but gnome-cups-manager could probably use some hands :)
[10:56] <seb128> I'm taking care of it, don't bother
[10:56] <seb128> I know what to do and how to do it
[10:56] <sivang> seb128: oh sure :) , I just replied to the golks there, I couldn't really understand if they were using a domain controller, what's there setup layout etc.
=== tritium [~tritium@12-202-90-180.client.insightBB.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:57] <sivang> seb128: [taking care of]  you meant the power managment stuff?
[10:57] <seb128> yeah
[10:57] <mjg59> seb128: Rock
[10:58] <seb128> :)
[10:58] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, cool. I'll see what love can cups-manager use, but it looks harder then doing the power management stuff :p ;-)
[11:00] <seb128> right, but that would be useful :)
=== lamont looks at the clock, runs to get kids
[11:00] <sivang> seb128: hehe, I can sense you would be comfortable leaving it to the user to call ./sleep.sh on their own, won't you? ;-) (/me hides)
[11:01] <sivang> seb128: anyway, I'm on the bugzilla.
=== bean601 [~bean601@adsl-68-250-190-83.dsl.wotnoh.ameritech.net]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[11:03] <seb128> sivang: no, but it'll take me half an hour to hack the logout stuff and update the package
[11:03] <seb128> sivang: so that's not really an issue
[11:03] <sivang> seb128: ofcourse :-)
[11:04] <sivang> seb128: I was just teasing...
[11:04] <seb128> :)
[11:07] <mjg59> sivang: It'll end up calling pmi action sleep
[11:07] <mjg59> But that's another story...
[11:07] <sivang> mjg59: you mean, not using a shell script?
[11:08] <mjg59> sivang: pmi is our platform-independent way of initiating sleep
[11:08] <Kamion> T-Bone: ok, I have the SuSE hotplug pci.handmap patch, I'll look at it tomorrow
[11:08] <sivang> mjg59: where can I read about it?
[11:08] <T-Bone> gigantic! :)
[11:09] <mjg59> sivang: apt-get install powermanagement-interface
[11:09] <Mitario> nite everyone
[11:10] <mvo> night Mitario 
[11:11] <sivang> mjg59: first glance, this still looks like shell scripts :-)
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[11:11] <mjg59> sivang: Heh. Yeah, but it means that gnome doesn't have to know about ACPI
[11:12] <sivang> mjg59: ah nice, any message busses used stuff like that?
[11:12] <thom> sivang: not yet
[11:12] <thom> see PowerManagementInterface in the wiki
[11:13] <sivang> thom: ok, will do.
[11:13] <mjg59> thom: Can you get pmi added to the right seed?
[11:13] <thom> mjg59: aw, shucks
[11:13] <thom> meant to do that today
[11:13] <thom> will confirm with colin in the morning
[11:14] <Kamion> hm, or apparently I should use /etc/hotplug.d/pci/ according to Debian #271843
[11:14] <Kamion> thom: what's needed?
[11:14] <thom> Kamion: powermanagement-interface in desktop
[11:15] <mjg59> Oh, wow
[11:15] <mjg59> The vte in Hoary has the Draw the top line repeatedly while scrolling backwards bug
[11:16] <Kamion> ah, secondary goal
[11:16] <schweeb> what's the status on the Hoary installer?  is it fairly usable?
[11:17] <toresbe> whoooo, I now have my very own PDP-11!! :)
[11:17] <Kamion> thom: ok, please add it
[11:17] <schweeb> considering trying it and making some bugreports, but if it's nonfunctional, I'll pass
[11:17] <Kamion> schweeb: generally it's been pretty fine for a while
[11:17] <toresbe> whoops, wrong window
[11:17] <Kamion> schweeb: there's the odd problem on certain hardware, which we need to know about sooner rather than later
[11:18] <thom> Kamion: will do
[11:18] <Kamion> every beta release since Array CD 1 has installed successfully on my hardware though
=== ogra throws envious looks in toresbe
[11:18] <toresbe> ogra: where in he world are you?
[11:18] <ogra> germany
[11:18] <thom> it installed on ia64 fine this morning for me, and ppc at the beginning of last week
[11:18] <schweeb> Kamion: yea, I've been meaning to ask, what does all of this "Array x" stuff signify?
[11:19] <toresbe> ogra: plenty of PDP-11 collectors in .de, and not rare that a PDP-11 pops up on ebay.de
[11:19] <ogra> toresbe: pdp-11 was the first big iron i saw in my life..... 
[11:19] <schweeb> I haven't read anything about it, cept on IRC
[11:19] <Kamion> schweeb: hoary hedgehog; array is the collective noun for hedgehogs
[11:19] <Kamion> (so I'm told)
[11:19] <schweeb> ahhhh
[11:19] <Kamion> similarly, "a sounder of warthogs"
[11:20] <Kamion> thom: oh, does the status in HoaryGoals need updating to say that it's been uploaded?
[11:20] <ogra> toresbe: i think i would go with something more usable and buy a up2000 ;) if i would spend money for it... but currently i have a indigo2 here that wasnt used since  years now :(
[11:20] <thom> yeah, i'll do that when i tweak the seeds
[11:20] <Kamion> thom: and what significant known bugs are there?
[11:20] <thom> Kamion: none that I'm aware of
[11:20] <toresbe> ogra: bah, heden ;)
[11:21] <ogra> toresbe: so it would only catch dust....
[11:21] <Kamion> thom: bonus
[11:21] <Kamion> guess we'll find out :)
[11:21] <farruinn> so perky penguins will be flock?
[11:21] <schweeb> I suppose it doesn't make any sense to update && upgrade when I'm about to blow this system away, hehe
[11:21] <Kamion> farruinn: guess so, haven't looked ahead :)
[11:21] <thom> Kamion: *g*
[11:21] <Kamion> so far jdub has given me the name to use
[11:22] <thom> farruinn: it's a colony of penguins
[11:22] <Kamion> Colony CD 1
[11:22] <Kamion> I like that, pleasing overtones of alien invasions
[11:22] <Kamion> YOU WILL BE COLONISED
[11:22] <ogra> hehe
[11:22] <farruinn> one of the releases should be * crow so we can have "murder-*"
[11:23] <Kamion> hm. no, wait. that sounds a bit too much like an unpleasant rectal operation.
[11:23] <thom> hehehe
[11:23] <thom> an intrigue of kittens
[11:23] <thom> kitchy kitten
[11:23] <mjg59> Murder 1
[11:23] <mjg59> Haha
[11:23] <thom> i want intrigues
[11:24] <Kamion> the idea of coincidentally naming CDs after cheesy TV shows does amuse me
[11:24] <farruinn> this creates a whole new dimension in choosing release names...
[11:24] <Kamion> anyway, PUB
[11:24] <thom> Kamion: night dude
[11:24] <thom> http://everywitchway.net/linguistics/languages/english/collectives.html
[11:24] <ogra> Kamion: prost ;)
[11:24] <thom> penguins can also be huddles
[11:25] <Kamion> that pretentious spelling is very annoying
[11:25] <thom> wow; a lamentation of swans
[11:25] <thom> Kamion: yes
[11:25] <thom> but it's the best list i've found
[11:26] <sivang> Kamion: don't drink too much :)
[11:26] <ogra> lol, barracuda battery ?
=== thom sleeps, having already pubbed
[11:28] <schweeb> Kamion: you're the cdimage guy right?  which should I download and test? Array 5 or a daily?
[11:29] <thom> schweeb: array 5 should work most places
[11:29] <trulux> oops
=== trulux having trouble with coreutils stuff
[11:29] <trulux> ajmitch: there?
[11:29] <thom> and it's not exactly a long way of current anyway right now; it's only a day or so old
[11:29] <schweeb> ah, gotcha
[11:30] <schweeb> now to remember where my blank CDs are...
[11:43] <mxpxpod> is there a place to file polypaudio bugs upstream?
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