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froudAfrican greeting. Wet, wet, wet in Johannesburg08:28
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maskiedry dry dry in cape town and on my way to the beach09:17
abelliso unfair..09:18
froudlucky bugger :-)09:18
abelliits snowy here09:18
=== froud hates the snow
maskieah well ... the wind is not even blowing ... and that say something for cpt09:19
froudhope the weather holds for me. only a few days till I get to Cape town09:19
abellicpt=cape town?!09:19
maskieabelli, yes09:19
froudThey say this time of year is the best time to visit Cape town09:19
maskiefroud, it should .. just bring us some of that rain ... 09:19
maskieyes it is .... 09:20
abelliare you both in Cpt Lug?09:20
maskieonly i am so lucky ... froud is in jhb09:20
froudabelli: if you mean am I subscribed, yes I am. Have I been to a CLUG meet, no09:21
froudmaskie: why?09:21
maskielucky about the cpt part ... 09:22
froudSo which beach you off too, the nudist beach, what's its name?09:22
maskiesandy bay and no .... of to melkbosstrand on the west coast09:23
abellimaskie, why dont we make a cultural exchange between btlug and clug?09:23
abellii take the sun, you take the snow09:23
abelliif you do like skying it's the best place in the world09:23
abelli...actually i dont09:23
froudabelli: no way dude, za would not be za09:23
maskiei like my sun ... snow is fine for a week a year when i want to go skiing09:24
abelliin fact09:24
abelliyou come here for i week..09:24
froudAfrikaans is such an expressive language milkbushbeach :-)09:24
froudwoza lapa09:24
abellii cant go further09:24
abelli..mm.. ok woza, not wooza09:25
maskiefroud ... yes it is ... i am out of here ... beach is waiting ....09:25
abellimaskie: ciao09:25
abelli..i come there for a month09:25
abellifroud: chow? is it a new kind of us missile?09:25
=== froud pull the chair closer to the keyboard and stretches for the fresh cup of hot coffee.
abellifroud: za coffee?!09:26
froudYeap :-)    Hey, I am going back to hacking the prose09:26
froudthe quick guide needs love09:26
froudabelli: svn up and do some work on Quick Guide09:27
froudit's getting close to the 2109:27
abellimmm... good luck..09:27
abelliim going back to capacitors to09:27
froudcummon dude lend a hand here, capacitors are boring09:28
abelliyeah.. but if i do not pass exams..09:28
abellii won't make my way through winter safe n sound09:28
=== froud remembers learning stuff like Ohms and Kerchoffs Laws a long time ago
abelliKCL, KVL, Thevenin, 09:29
froudAh yes, those dudes too.09:30
froudEngineering school seems so far away in the past. I must be getting old09:30
abelliare you an engineer=09:30
abelliwhat kind?09:30
froudthat's my background09:30
froudbut I gave up on pulling wire long time ago09:31
froudnow I just explain how things work :-)09:31
froudyes electrical09:31
abellimy "electrotechnics" [<= is this inglisch]  teacher, uses to say09:32
abelli"electronic engineers use voltages like 0.6 V..09:32
froudIt helps to be technical when you are a writer, especially when you write on technical subjects09:32
abelliwe electrican ones deal with 10.000V... and that kills09:33
abellishe's a poet09:33
abellimmm.. no ... i meant09:33
froudYes, I did electronics basics, but chose Heavy Current09:33
froudI liked the shhhhhock of it09:33
froudI guess it can be a term09:34
abelliive got an exam [electrotechnics]  on thursday09:34
abelliand something about economy on friday..09:34
abelli: i need to study09:35
froudenjoy, boy am I glad I dont have to do exams anymore09:35
frouddoesn't mean I dont study09:35
froudc ya09:35
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=== froud has to go for a few minutes. If Liz appears keep her here and try help her to get going. I will return soon.
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=== Liz nudges froud
=== Liz sits patiently to wait
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froudLiz: 02:33
froudsorry I had to go out unexpectedly 02:33
froudLiz: so what's got you stuck?02:34
enricohi Liz!02:35
=== froud waves to enrico
=== enrico waves at froud
froudLiz: we're here to help so let's get started02:37
froudoh dear, I guess Liz is preoccupied with something else02:38
Lizim here..i wandered off to play nethack02:38
Lizfor a change i havent died yet02:38
enricoLiz: you need to teach me about that!02:38
froudMe 202:38
enrico(maybe this is not documentation related)02:38
Lizits pretty good..but if you stop playing it..or die..you gotta start again02:39
Lizits not..but anyway02:39
Lizits 12.39am here02:39
froudso Liz what's got you stuck on the docs02:39
enricobut I tried some variant of it, and I thought that was not just really a rpg02:39
Lizhow do i get them?02:39
Lizthe docs that is02:39
Lizi tried that sv thing..i get an error02:39
froudwhat error02:40
froudlet's start by typing svn [enter] 02:40
Lizcommand not found02:40
enricosudo apt-get install subversion02:41
froudok you need to install subversion02:41
Lizok..installing 02:42
froudcool let us know when it is finished. In the interim where do you want to have your working copy of the source02:43
froudshould be somewhere in /home/liz/02:44
froudin a new terminal do cd   ~02:44
Lizyep..thats cool with me..ill just make a folder for it first..so i can link it to my desktop02:44
frouddont do that02:44
froudis your present working directory your home folder02:45
froudok once subversion is installed02:45
froudtype svn02:45
froudyou should get 02:45
Lizsays svn help02:46
frouddo svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos [ubuntu-docs] 02:46
froudwhere [ubuntu-docs]     is the name of the folder you want02:47
Lizwhat folder do i want?..02:47
Lizwhat folder do i need?02:47
froudjust call it ubuntu-docs02:47
frouddo like this02:47
froudsvn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs02:48
froudThis will create a folder /ubuntu-docs/trunk inside which you will see it adding all the sources02:48
Lizits asking about the certificate information...reject, accept, temporarily or accept permanently02:49
Lizill accept02:49
Lizok..i got a list of things going here02:49
Lizright now its up to images02:50
froudcool it's adding (A) the files to the directory ubuntu-doc/trunk/ in your home folder02:50
froudThis is known as your Working Copy or WC for short02:51
Lizso this is what i work with?..all these?02:52
froudYes, your working copy02:52
frouddon't worry if you break something it is ok02:52
Lizbut im assuming im not doing all of them...correct?02:52
Lizi just work on little bits that i can..right?02:52
froudyou cant break the server repos02:52
froudhas it finished02:53
Liznope..still on images02:53
froudok let's wait for it to finish, we will help you though the basics you need to know02:53
froudwhen it is finished please do cd ubuntu-doc/trunk/02:54
Lizok..its just done takescreenshop.png02:54
Lizstill doing images02:56
froudit will take a few minutes, the first time is the worst02:57
froudit needs to get a mirror copy of everything in the repos02:57
Lizyes..the pictures would be02:57
froudafter that it will only send and receive changes02:57
froudso it becomes much easier02:57
froudLiz: are you running Warty or Hoary02:58
Lizwarty..initially..but i upgraded my dist earlier this week.02:58
Lizbut it kinda screwed up a little02:58
Lizso i had to go back to using some of the warty stuff02:58
froudso you are now on Hoary02:58
Lizactually..im not sure now02:59
Lizwait..let me check02:59
Lizwarty..the amd kernel03:00
Lizok its done03:00
froudok now you cd into ubuntu-doc/trunk/03:00
Lizi have revision 53803:00
Lizi dont have a trunk directory in there03:01
froudok what do you have03:01
froudjust lots of files and folders right03:02
Lizdirectories?..i have userguide03:02
froudok 03:02
Lizimages, housekeep, faqguide, debian, common, adminguide, abutbuntu03:02
Lizsorry..thats abtubuntu03:02
Lizand .svn03:02
froudso your present working directory (pwd) is ubuntu-doc/03:02
frouddo svn up03:03
froudI have commited a change03:03
froudyou will see it patch the quickguide03:03
froudthat's right03:03
froudthis is how you get the changes residing in the repos into your wc from now on03:04
Lizcool...i see it03:04
froudnow what text editor are you happy using03:04
Lizor abiword03:05
Lizi dont have alot of experience with vim03:05
Lizbut i can use it if need be03:05
frouddo gedit quickguide/quickguide.xml03:06
froudthis will open the quick guide xml src03:06
Lizyep..looking at it now03:07
Lizand the tages03:07
froudOK that is Docbook XML you are looking at03:07
froudDo you see the top bit colored pink03:07
Lizyou mean the <?xml version="1.0." encoding "UTF-8"?>03:08
froudok that is called the xml-declaration03:08
Lizor the bit that says doctype book public ...blah03:09
froudnow this bit03:09
froud<!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" 03:09
froud"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd" [03:09
froud<!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "../libs/xinclude.mod">03:09
Lizok..mines purple...but yeah, i de it03:09
Lizsee it that is03:09
froud<!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../libs/global.ent">03:09
froud] >03:09
froudthis is called the Document Type Declaration03:09
froudBasically it says that this xml file must conform to the rules of the Docbook DTD version 4.303:10
froudThe document is a book03:10
froudhence the root element is <book>03:10
froudScroll down slowly, reading the names of the xml elements03:11
Lizwhat does it mean by this --->  <emphasis>FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT</emphasis>03:12
Lizok i get that it says fixme..but whats an XINCLUDE comment?03:13
froudthe elements are a semantic nomenclature that defines the role of the text03:13
froudOK we have used a   standard called XInclude03:13
froud<xi:include href="../userguide/about/chap-ubuntu.xml#xpointer(//para[@id='about1'] )"03:13
froud                xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">03:13
froud                <xi:fallback>03:13
froud                    <para>03:13
froud                        <emphasis>FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT</emphasis>03:14
Lizyes..i see that bit just before the bit i pasted03:14
froud                    </para>03:14
froud                </xi:fallback>03:14
froud            </xi:include>03:14
froudBasically this piece of code fetches a specific piece of text from another xml doc03:14
froudif it does not find it the it outputs the message FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT03:14
froudthis way we know if all our XIncludes are working03:14
froudif they are then this code will be replaced by the xml instance to which it is pointing03:15
froudif not we see FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT03:15
froudOK I want you to edit some text. Find a para and type something03:16
froudthe big brown fox03:17
froudjust write it inside an existing  <para></para>03:17
frouddont write a novell, just a few words :-)03:18
froudWhen you are done, save03:19
froudnow let's go back to that wicked terminal session03:19
Lizi also corrected a typo..heh03:19
froudyou should still be in ubuntu-doc/03:19
Lizok..terminal window03:19
froudcd quickguide/03:20
froudsvn diff quickguide.xml > quickguide.xml.diff03:20
froudthen do less quickguide.xml.diff03:21
froudThis is called a patch03:21
froudit contains the changes you made03:21
Lizyes..im seeing that03:22
froudwhen you're finished looking at that press 'q' to exit03:22
froudOk you now know how to add text and create a patch03:22
froudif you send me or enrico the patch we will apply it03:23
froudafter we have applied it you see it next time you do svn up03:23
Lizso i send the whole file to you?03:23
Lizor does it just make a little patch for that bit..and that sends to you ?03:24
froudyou would send just the file named quickguide.xml.diff03:24
Lizi email the file?03:24
froudyes, for now03:24
Lizone tick while i do that03:24
froudwe can then check the patch and add it to the repos03:24
froudno not now03:24
froudDo it in future when you are doing actual work03:25
froudOK let's say you did something wrong and you want to get back the version in the repos03:25
froudjust do svn revert quickguide.xml03:25
froudThis will eliminate all your changes in quickguide.xml and role the file back to the last known copy in the repos03:27
froudClear so far :-)03:27
Lizyep..im taking notes as we speak03:27
froudOK you can also log the conversation03:28
froudWhere to start work?03:28
Lizyes i know..but i never do, cause im normally in too many irc channels 03:28
froudI suggest that you do editing of current text03:28
Lizhence..i take notes03:29
froudwe use US Spelling03:29
froudand punctuation03:29
enricoLiz: if you want to make a wiki page with the notes, that could be very useful to others03:29
enrico(or you can send the notes to me and I do the wiki page)03:29
Lizahh..im from new zealand..we normally use UK english03:29
froudso a period go inside inverted comma's when the last work is like "this."03:30
Lizlast work??03:30
froudIf you are not sure use the dictionary installed on ubuntu03:30
froudpoint it ast Websters03:31
froudit at03:31
froudwhat last work03:31
enricofroud: you wrote 'when the last work is like "this."'03:31
Liz<froud> so a period go inside inverted comma's when the last work is like "this."   <--last work..or do you mean last word?03:31
froudoh my bad03:32
froudlast word03:32
froudchicago manual of style will help you with this tuff03:32
Lizill try and follow the previous lot of writing anyway..or find something that shows me what i need to do03:32
Lizwhats a chicago manual of style?03:32
Lizits not a known university style..03:33
Lizthat i know of03:33
sivanghey froud ! what's up?03:33
Lizwe normally follow the harvard style03:33
froudChicago/Turabian style. The best reference resource is therefore The Chicago Manual of Style03:33
froudsivang: beseder gaver03:34
froudLiz: the best way to work is in small pieces and commit often03:35
Lizi have it written down03:35
froudso take a section make edits and submit the patch03:35
Lizand ill get onto it tomorrow..if thats ok03:35
Lizits like 1.30am here03:35
froudno worries03:35
sivangfroud: ah everything's fine thank you, been doing some stuff here and there I wan to check out the new doc repository do you have the current URI ?03:36
froudSo for example you can take a sect1 do your edit then create a patch and send it to us by email03:36
Lizyes..i can do that froud03:36
Lizthank you 03:36
sivanghey Liz, what sections are you going to work on of what book?03:36
froudsivang:  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/03:36
Lizright now sivang..no idea ..i only just got it..heh03:37
froudLiz: we are focused on Quick Guide03:37
Lizthats what ill be looking at 03:37
Lizthe quickquide03:37
froudLiz: if you can focus on that it would be a great help :-)03:37
Lizill update in the morning..to make sure i have the latest stuff03:37
Lizand then ill come to chat and work on it03:38
sivangfroud: wow nice 03:38
froudLiz: it is good practice to update before you start work and before you create a patch03:38
sivangLiz: ah cool, don't worry, if you get too much docbook in your way, frod will upload your changes ;-)03:38
froudLiz: next time I will teach you more about validation03:39
froudbut here's the basics03:39
sivangLiz: are you also a seasoned writer?03:40
sivangLiz: (like froud is)03:40
froudwe have a script in the root of your ubuntu-doc/ folder03:40
Lizsivang, no, this is my first time doing this03:41
Liztho i have done instruction manuals while i was studying03:41
Lizenrico, please tell froud that ill be back later today..its getting close to 2am monday morning here..and i really need to go to bed 03:42
=== froud [~froud@ndn-165-139-163.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
Lizwb froud03:42
Lizand goodnight03:42
Lizits getting up to 2am here..i really need to go to bed03:42
enricofroud: Liz told me she'll be back later today..its ting close to 2am monday morning there... and she really needs to go to bed03:43
Lizi will be back later today tho03:43
enricoLiz :)03:43
froudas sivang said, dont worry too much about getting the markup right I will fix it03:43
froudLiz: good night03:43
Lizgoodnight guys03:43
enricoLiz: goodnight!03:43
enricotoo slow03:43
froudwhewwwwww, that was heavy03:43
froudsivang: can we expectsome patches from you soon?03:57
enricosivang: yes, I want to see a mail with your name on ubuntu-commits!03:59
=== froud thinks sivang is now ignoring us
froudanybody else lurking on the side. We are so close and the Quick Guide is going strong a bit of help from everyone and I am sure we can bring this in for the freeze.04:01
froudenrico: I think the current quick guide is a good base to improve on04:01
froudenrico: jeff is concerned about the tips though04:03
froudenrico: he feels that it will be tough going to add tips everywhere before the freeze04:03
froudI suggest we comment them and then uncomment them back again after we have tagged04:04
froudwhen do you actually want to create the tag, by what date?04:04
froudif we tag you will have to write the deb packaging so that it creates the packages from the tag04:05
froudnot the trunk04:05
enricouhm... no need to: you just checkout the tagged version and build the packages from it04:07
froudOh yes, the paths are relative right? :_)04:08
enricoWRT the tips, we can leave them there: then some will have some tips and some won't but that's not too bad04:08
enricoeverything is relative04:08
froudwell I am off, b c'ing ya all later04:09
enricofroud: see you!04:18
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