[08:28] <froud> African greeting. Wet, wet, wet in Johannesburg
[09:17] <maskie> dry dry dry in cape town and on my way to the beach
[09:18] <abelli> so unfair..
[09:18] <froud> lucky bugger :-)
[09:18] <abelli> its snowy here
[09:19] <maskie> ah well ... the wind is not even blowing ... and that say something for cpt
[09:19] <froud> hope the weather holds for me. only a few days till I get to Cape town
[09:19] <abelli> cpt=cape town?!
[09:19] <maskie> abelli, yes
[09:19] <froud> They say this time of year is the best time to visit Cape town
[09:19] <maskie> froud, it should .. just bring us some of that rain ... 
[09:20] <maskie> yes it is .... 
[09:20] <abelli> are you both in Cpt Lug?
[09:20] <maskie> only i am so lucky ... froud is in jhb
[09:21] <froud> abelli: if you mean am I subscribed, yes I am. Have I been to a CLUG meet, no
[09:21] <froud> maskie: why?
[09:22] <maskie> lucky about the cpt part ... 
[09:22] <froud> So which beach you off too, the nudist beach, what's its name?
[09:23] <maskie> sandy bay and no .... of to melkbosstrand on the west coast
[09:23] <abelli> maskie, why dont we make a cultural exchange between btlug and clug?
[09:23] <abelli> i take the sun, you take the snow
[09:23] <abelli> if you do like skying it's the best place in the world
[09:23] <abelli> ...actually i dont
[09:23] <froud> abelli: no way dude, za would not be za
[09:24] <maskie> i like my sun ... snow is fine for a week a year when i want to go skiing
[09:24] <abelli> in fact
[09:24] <abelli> you come here for i week..
[09:24] <froud> Afrikaans is such an expressive language milkbushbeach :-)
[09:24] <abelli> wooza
[09:24] <froud> woza lapa
[09:24] <abelli> i cant go further
[09:24] <abelli> sorry
[09:25] <abelli> ..mm.. ok woza, not wooza
[09:25] <maskie> froud ... yes it is ... i am out of here ... beach is waiting ....
[09:25] <abelli> maskie: ciao
[09:25] <froud> chow
[09:25] <maskie> bye
[09:25] <abelli> ..i come there for a month
[09:25] <abelli> froud: chow? is it a new kind of us missile?
[09:26] <abelli> froud: za coffee?!
[09:26] <froud> Yeap :-)    Hey, I am going back to hacking the prose
[09:26] <froud> the quick guide needs love
[09:27] <froud> abelli: svn up and do some work on Quick Guide
[09:27] <froud> it's getting close to the 21
[09:27] <abelli> mmm... good luck..
[09:27] <abelli> im going back to capacitors to
[09:27] <abelli> o
[09:28] <froud> cummon dude lend a hand here, capacitors are boring
[09:28] <abelli> yeah.. but if i do not pass exams..
[09:28] <abelli> i won't make my way through winter safe n sound
[09:29] <abelli> kirchoff
[09:29] <abelli> KCL, KVL, Thevenin, 
[09:29] <abelli> Norton..
[09:30] <froud> Ah yes, those dudes too.
[09:30] <froud> Engineering school seems so far away in the past. I must be getting old
[09:30] <abelli> are you an engineer=
[09:30] <abelli> =
[09:30] <abelli> ?
[09:30] <froud> yes
[09:30] <abelli> what kind?
[09:30] <froud> that's my background
[09:31] <froud> but I gave up on pulling wire long time ago
[09:31] <abelli> electrical?
[09:31] <froud> now I just explain how things work :-)
[09:31] <froud> yes electrical
[09:32] <abelli> my "electrotechnics" [<= is this inglisch]  teacher, uses to say
[09:32] <abelli> "electronic engineers use voltages like 0.6 V..
[09:32] <froud> It helps to be technical when you are a writer, especially when you write on technical subjects
[09:32] <froud> electronics
[09:33] <abelli> we electrican ones deal with 10.000V... and that kills
[09:33] <abelli> ".
[09:33] <abelli> she's a poet
[09:33] <abelli> mmm.. no ... i meant
[09:33] <froud> Yes, I did electronics basics, but chose Heavy Current
[09:33] <froud> I liked the shhhhhock of it
[09:34] <abelli> electrotechnics
[09:34] <froud> I guess it can be a term
[09:34] <abelli> ive got an exam [electrotechnics]  on thursday
[09:34] <abelli> and something about economy on friday..
[09:35] <abelli> : i need to study
[09:35] <froud> enjoy, boy am I glad I dont have to do exams anymore
[09:35] <froud> doesn't mean I dont study
[09:35] <froud> c ya
[09:35] <abelli> icoa
[09:35] <abelli> oaic
[09:35] <abelli> ciao
[02:17] <Liz> froud?
[02:33] <froud> Liz: 
[02:33] <froud> hi
[02:33] <froud> sorry I had to go out unexpectedly 
[02:34] <froud> Liz: so what's got you stuck?
[02:35] <enrico> hi Liz!
[02:37] <froud> Liz: we're here to help so let's get started
[02:38] <froud> oh dear, I guess Liz is preoccupied with something else
[02:38] <Liz> hehe
[02:38] <Liz> im here..i wandered off to play nethack
[02:38] <Liz> for a change i havent died yet
[02:38] <enrico> Liz: you need to teach me about that!
[02:38] <Liz> hehe
[02:38] <froud> Me 2
[02:38] <enrico> (maybe this is not documentation related)
[02:39] <Liz> its pretty good..but if you stop playing it..or die..you gotta start again
[02:39] <Liz> its not..but anyway
[02:39] <Liz> its 12.39am here
[02:39] <froud> so Liz what's got you stuck on the docs
[02:39] <enrico> but I tried some variant of it, and I thought that was not just really a rpg
[02:39] <Liz> how do i get them?
[02:39] <Liz> the docs that is
[02:39] <Liz> i tried that sv thing..i get an error
[02:40] <froud> what error
[02:40] <froud> let's start by typing svn [enter] 
[02:40] <Liz> command not found
[02:41] <enrico> sudo apt-get install subversion
[02:41] <froud> ok you need to install subversion
[02:42] <Liz> ok..installing 
[02:43] <froud> cool let us know when it is finished. In the interim where do you want to have your working copy of the source
[02:44] <froud> should be somewhere in /home/liz/
[02:44] <froud> in a new terminal do cd   ~
[02:44] <Liz> yep..thats cool with me..ill just make a folder for it first..so i can link it to my desktop
[02:44] <froud> no
[02:44] <froud> dont do that
[02:45] <froud> is your present working directory your home folder
[02:45] <Liz> yes
[02:45] <froud> ok once subversion is installed
[02:45] <froud> type svn
[02:45] <froud> you should get 
[02:46] <Liz> says svn help
[02:46] <froud> cool
[02:46] <froud> do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos [ubuntu-docs] 
[02:47] <froud> where [ubuntu-docs]     is the name of the folder you want
[02:47] <Liz> what folder do i want?..
[02:47] <Liz> what folder do i need?
[02:47] <froud> just call it ubuntu-docs
[02:47] <froud> do like this
[02:48] <froud> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs
[02:48] <froud> This will create a folder /ubuntu-docs/trunk inside which you will see it adding all the sources
[02:49] <Liz> its asking about the certificate information...reject, accept, temporarily or accept permanently
[02:49] <Liz> ill accept
[02:49] <froud> accept
[02:49] <Liz> ok..i got a list of things going here
[02:50] <Liz> right now its up to images
[02:50] <froud> cool it's adding (A) the files to the directory ubuntu-doc/trunk/ in your home folder
[02:51] <froud> This is known as your Working Copy or WC for short
[02:52] <Liz> so this is what i work with?..all these?
[02:52] <froud> Yes, your working copy
[02:52] <froud> don't worry if you break something it is ok
[02:52] <Liz> but im assuming im not doing all of them...correct?
[02:52] <Liz> i just work on little bits that i can..right?
[02:52] <froud> you cant break the server repos
[02:53] <froud> patience
[02:53] <froud> has it finished
[02:53] <Liz> nope..still on images
[02:53] <froud> ok let's wait for it to finish, we will help you though the basics you need to know
[02:54] <froud> when it is finished please do cd ubuntu-doc/trunk/
[02:54] <Liz> ok..its just done takescreenshop.png
[02:56] <Liz> still doing images
[02:57] <froud> it will take a few minutes, the first time is the worst
[02:57] <froud> it needs to get a mirror copy of everything in the repos
[02:57] <Liz> yes..the pictures would be
[02:57] <froud> after that it will only send and receive changes
[02:57] <froud> so it becomes much easier
[02:58] <froud> Liz: are you running Warty or Hoary
[02:58] <Liz> warty..initially..but i upgraded my dist earlier this week.
[02:58] <Liz> but it kinda screwed up a little
[02:58] <Liz> so i had to go back to using some of the warty stuff
[02:58] <froud> so you are now on Hoary
[02:59] <Liz> actually..im not sure now
[02:59] <Liz> wait..let me check
[03:00] <Liz> warty..the amd kernel
[03:00] <Liz> ok its done
[03:00] <froud> ok now you cd into ubuntu-doc/trunk/
[03:00] <Liz> i have revision 538
[03:01] <Liz> i dont have a trunk directory in there
[03:01] <froud> ok what do you have
[03:02] <froud> just lots of files and folders right
[03:02] <Liz> directories?..i have userguide
[03:02] <Liz> quickguide
[03:02] <Liz> libs
[03:02] <froud> ok 
[03:02] <Liz> images, housekeep, faqguide, debian, common, adminguide, abutbuntu
[03:02] <Liz> sorry..thats abtubuntu
[03:02] <Liz> and .svn
[03:02] <froud> so your present working directory (pwd) is ubuntu-doc/
[03:03] <Liz> yep
[03:03] <froud> do svn up
[03:03] <froud> I have commited a change
[03:03] <Liz> 539
[03:03] <froud> you will see it patch the quickguide
[03:03] <froud> that's right
[03:04] <froud> this is how you get the changes residing in the repos into your wc from now on
[03:04] <Liz> cool...i see it
[03:04] <froud> OK
[03:04] <froud> now what text editor are you happy using
[03:05] <froud> VIM
[03:05] <Liz> gedit..
[03:05] <Liz> or abiword
[03:05] <Liz> i dont have alot of experience with vim
[03:05] <Liz> but i can use it if need be
[03:05] <froud> Ok
[03:06] <froud> do gedit quickguide/quickguide.xml
[03:06] <froud> this will open the quick guide xml src
[03:07] <Liz> yep..looking at it now
[03:07] <Liz> and the tages
[03:07] <froud> OK that is Docbook XML you are looking at
[03:07] <froud> Do you see the top bit colored pink
[03:08] <Liz> you mean the <?xml version="1.0." encoding "UTF-8"?>
[03:08] <froud> ok that is called the xml-declaration
[03:09] <Liz> or the bit that says doctype book public ...blah
[03:09] <froud> now this bit
[03:09] <froud> <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" 
[03:09] <froud> 	"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd" [
[03:09] <froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "../libs/xinclude.mod">
[03:09] <Liz> ok..mines purple...but yeah, i de it
[03:09] <froud> %xinclude;
[03:09] <Liz> see it that is
[03:09] <froud> <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../libs/global.ent">
[03:09] <froud> %globalent;
[03:09] <froud> ] >
[03:09] <froud> this is called the Document Type Declaration
[03:10] <froud> Basically it says that this xml file must conform to the rules of the Docbook DTD version 4.3
[03:10] <froud> The document is a book
[03:10] <froud> hence the root element is <book>
[03:11] <froud> Scroll down slowly, reading the names of the xml elements
[03:12] <Liz> what does it mean by this --->  <emphasis>FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT</emphasis>
[03:13] <Liz> ok i get that it says fixme..but whats an XINCLUDE comment?
[03:13] <froud> the elements are a semantic nomenclature that defines the role of the text
[03:13] <froud> OK we have used a   standard called XInclude
[03:13] <froud> <xi:include href="../userguide/about/chap-ubuntu.xml#xpointer(//para[@id='about1'] )"
[03:13] <froud>                 xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
[03:13] <froud>                 <xi:fallback>
[03:13] <froud>                     <para>
[03:14] <froud>                         <emphasis>FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT</emphasis>
[03:14] <Liz> yes..i see that bit just before the bit i pasted
[03:14] <froud>                     </para>
[03:14] <froud>                 </xi:fallback>
[03:14] <froud>             </xi:include>
[03:14] <froud> Basically this piece of code fetches a specific piece of text from another xml doc
[03:14] <froud> if it does not find it the it outputs the message FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT
[03:14] <froud> this way we know if all our XIncludes are working
[03:15] <froud> if they are then this code will be replaced by the xml instance to which it is pointing
[03:15] <froud> if not we see FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT
[03:15] <Liz> ahhh..okie
[03:16] <froud> OK I want you to edit some text. Find a para and type something
[03:17] <Liz> anything?
[03:17] <froud> anything
[03:17] <froud> the big brown fox
[03:17] <froud> just write it inside an existing  <para></para>
[03:18] <froud> dont write a novell, just a few words :-)
[03:19] <enrico> brb
[03:19] <Liz> done
[03:19] <froud> When you are done, save
[03:19] <Liz> ok
[03:19] <froud> now let's go back to that wicked terminal session
[03:19] <Liz> i also corrected a typo..heh
[03:19] <froud> you should still be in ubuntu-doc/
[03:19] <Liz> ok..terminal window
[03:19] <Liz> yep
[03:20] <froud> cd quickguide/
[03:20] <Liz> ok
[03:20] <froud> svn diff quickguide.xml > quickguide.xml.diff
[03:21] <froud> then do less quickguide.xml.diff
[03:21] <froud> This is called a patch
[03:21] <froud> it contains the changes you made
[03:22] <Liz> yes..im seeing that
[03:22] <froud> when you're finished looking at that press 'q' to exit
[03:22] <froud> Ok you now know how to add text and create a patch
[03:23] <froud> if you send me or enrico the patch we will apply it
[03:23] <froud> after we have applied it you see it next time you do svn up
[03:23] <Liz> so i send the whole file to you?
[03:24] <Liz> or does it just make a little patch for that bit..and that sends to you ?
[03:24] <froud> you would send just the file named quickguide.xml.diff
[03:24] <Liz> i email the file?
[03:24] <froud> yes, for now
[03:24] <Liz> rightio
[03:24] <Liz> one tick while i do that
[03:24] <froud> we can then check the patch and add it to the repos
[03:24] <froud> no not now
[03:25] <froud> Do it in future when you are doing actual work
[03:25] <Liz> ahh..ok..
[03:25] <froud> OK let's say you did something wrong and you want to get back the version in the repos
[03:25] <froud> just do svn revert quickguide.xml
[03:27] <froud> This will eliminate all your changes in quickguide.xml and role the file back to the last known copy in the repos
[03:27] <froud> Clear so far :-)
[03:27] <Liz> yep..im taking notes as we speak
[03:28] <froud> OK you can also log the conversation
[03:28] <froud> Where to start work?
[03:28] <Liz> yes i know..but i never do, cause im normally in too many irc channels 
[03:28] <froud> I suggest that you do editing of current text
[03:29] <Liz> hence..i take notes
[03:29] <froud> ok
[03:29] <froud> we use US Spelling
[03:29] <froud> and punctuation
[03:29] <enrico> Liz: if you want to make a wiki page with the notes, that could be very useful to others
[03:29] <enrico> (or you can send the notes to me and I do the wiki page)
[03:29] <Liz> ahh..im from new zealand..we normally use UK english
[03:30] <froud> so a period go inside inverted comma's when the last work is like "this."
[03:30] <Liz> last work??
[03:30] <froud> If you are not sure use the dictionary installed on ubuntu
[03:31] <froud> point it ast Websters
[03:31] <froud> it at
[03:31] <froud> what last work
[03:31] <enrico> froud: you wrote 'when the last work is like "this."'
 so a period go inside inverted comma's when the last work is like "this."   <--last work..or do you mean last word?
[03:32] <froud> oh my bad
[03:32] <froud> last word
[03:32] <Liz> ahh..ok
[03:32] <froud> chicago manual of style will help you with this tuff
[03:32] <Liz> ill try and follow the previous lot of writing anyway..or find something that shows me what i need to do
[03:32] <froud> stuff
[03:32] <froud> great
[03:32] <Liz> whats a chicago manual of style?
[03:33] <Liz> its not a known university style..
[03:33] <Liz> that i know of
[03:33] <sivang> hey froud ! what's up?
[03:33] <Liz> we normally follow the harvard style
[03:33] <froud> Chicago/Turabian style. The best reference resource is therefore The Chicago Manual of Style
[03:34] <froud> http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/cmosfaq.html
[03:34] <froud> sivang: beseder gaver
[03:34] <froud> mieyanim
[03:35] <froud> Liz: the best way to work is in small pieces and commit often
[03:35] <Liz> rightio
[03:35] <Liz> i have it written down
[03:35] <froud> so take a section make edits and submit the patch
[03:35] <Liz> and ill get onto it tomorrow..if thats ok
[03:35] <Liz> its like 1.30am here
[03:35] <froud> no worries
[03:36] <sivang> froud: ah everything's fine thank you, been doing some stuff here and there I wan to check out the new doc repository do you have the current URI ?
[03:36] <froud> So for example you can take a sect1 do your edit then create a patch and send it to us by email
[03:36] <Liz> yes..i can do that froud
[03:36] <Liz> thank you 
[03:36] <sivang> hey Liz, what sections are you going to work on of what book?
[03:36] <froud> sivang:  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/
[03:37] <Liz> right now sivang..no idea ..i only just got it..heh
[03:37] <froud> Liz: we are focused on Quick Guide
[03:37] <Liz> thats what ill be looking at 
[03:37] <Liz> the quickquide
[03:37] <froud> Liz: if you can focus on that it would be a great help :-)
[03:37] <froud> yep
[03:37] <Liz> ill update in the morning..to make sure i have the latest stuff
[03:38] <froud> Yes
[03:38] <Liz> and then ill come to chat and work on it
[03:38] <sivang> froud: wow nice 
[03:38] <froud> Liz: it is good practice to update before you start work and before you create a patch
[03:38] <sivang> Liz: ah cool, don't worry, if you get too much docbook in your way, frod will upload your changes ;-)
[03:39] <froud> Liz: next time I will teach you more about validation
[03:39] <froud> but here's the basics
[03:40] <sivang> Liz: are you also a seasoned writer?
[03:40] <sivang> Liz: (like froud is)
[03:40] <froud> we have a script in the root of your ubuntu-doc/ folder
[03:41] <Liz> sivang, no, this is my first time doing this
[03:41] <Liz> tho i have done instruction manuals while i was studying
[03:42] <Liz> enrico, please tell froud that ill be back later today..its getting close to 2am monday morning here..and i really need to go to bed 
[03:42] <Liz> wb froud
[03:42] <Liz> and goodnight
[03:42] <Liz> its getting up to 2am here..i really need to go to bed
[03:43] <enrico> froud: Liz told me she'll be back later today..its ting close to 2am monday morning there... and she really needs to go to bed
[03:43] <Liz> i will be back later today tho
[03:43] <enrico> Liz :)
[03:43] <froud> as sivang said, dont worry too much about getting the markup right I will fix it
[03:43] <froud> Liz: good night
[03:43] <Liz> goodnight guys
[03:43] <enrico> Liz: goodnight!
[03:43] <enrico> too slow
[03:43] <froud> whewwwwww, that was heavy
[03:57] <froud> sivang: can we expectsome patches from you soon?
[03:59] <enrico> sivang: yes, I want to see a mail with your name on ubuntu-commits!
[04:01] <froud> anybody else lurking on the side. We are so close and the Quick Guide is going strong a bit of help from everyone and I am sure we can bring this in for the freeze.
[04:01] <froud> enrico: I think the current quick guide is a good base to improve on
[04:03] <froud> enrico: jeff is concerned about the tips though
[04:03] <froud> enrico: he feels that it will be tough going to add tips everywhere before the freeze
[04:04] <froud> I suggest we comment them and then uncomment them back again after we have tagged
[04:04] <froud> when do you actually want to create the tag, by what date?
[04:04] <froud> 21?
[04:05] <froud> if we tag you will have to write the deb packaging so that it creates the packages from the tag
[04:05] <froud> not the trunk
[04:07] <enrico> uhm... no need to: you just checkout the tagged version and build the packages from it
[04:08] <froud> Oh yes, the paths are relative right? :_)
[04:08] <enrico> WRT the tips, we can leave them there: then some will have some tips and some won't but that's not too bad
[04:08] <enrico> everything is relative
[04:08] <froud> ok
[04:09] <froud> well I am off, b c'ing ya all later
[04:18] <enrico> froud: see you!