[12:02] <Kamion> evening zul
[12:02] <zul> hey kamion how is it going?
[12:03] <Kamion> not bad, did that advansys/fdomain/qlogicisp hotplug patch, and I think that's enough kernel stuff for me for one day
[12:04] <zul> ok its going into -20
[12:09] <T-Bone> Kamion: how does it look for mptscsih? :)
[12:09] <Kamion> T-Bone: done, see #6786
[12:09] <Kamion> well, not uploaded yet
[12:09] <Kamion> the patch seems to do the right thing and willy was ok with the general idea
[12:10] <T-Bone> cool!
[12:10] <T-Bone> i hope it doesn't make mptbase sad tho :)
[12:11] <Kamion> T-Bone: I pulled out the relevant bit of pci.agent and ran it by hand over the modules.pcimap file produced by a test build; it seemed to do the right thing
[12:12] <T-Bone> awesome
[12:12] <T-Bone> btw kudos for having willy to settle that quickly :)
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[12:13] <Kamion> I figured the easiest way to sort it out was to just talk to him :)
[12:13] <T-Bone> indeed :)
[12:13] <Kamion> anyhow, we'll see how it goes
=== sivang --> food
[12:15] <lamont> In file included from ../../k3dsdk/glutility.h:5,
[12:15] <lamont>                  from paraboloid.cpp:29:
[12:15] <lamont> ../../k3dsdk/glutility_private.h:40:2: warning: #warning Since you are the bigshot owner of a 64 bit machine, please consider contributing a better implementation for the following functions
=== lamont cackles
[12:17] <T-Bone> bwahahaha :)
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[12:21] <dopeman> hi you dudes
[12:23] <dopeman> i d like some advice on debian
[12:24] <dopeman> (someone hey)
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[12:26] <zul> dopeman: this is a #ubuntu development channel you might want to try #debian or even #ubuntuy
[12:26] <zul> #ubuntu even
[12:27] <dopeman> ok
[12:27] <dholbach> good night everyone... 
[12:34] <dopeman> ubuntu is debian related ?
[12:34] <dopeman> am i wrong ?
[12:35] <zul> yes but your question if off-topic for this channel
[12:37] <Kamion> well, it might be clearer if we heard what the question was :)
[12:37] <Kamion> night folks
[12:38] <Mithrandir> night, Kamion
[12:38] <zul> toodles Kamion 
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[12:51] <mdz> Kamion: here?
[12:53] <mjg59> daniels: Oh, lord, there's huge gobs of difference between the xorg DRM and the stuff in the kernel
[12:53] <daniels> mjg59: YOU WIN!!!
[12:54] <zul> mdz: i think he just left
[12:54] <daniels> mdz: welcome back
[12:54] <mdz> daniels: I'm not back yet :-)
[12:55] <mdz> apparently the live CD has seriously bitrotted in my absence
[12:55] <mjg59> Oh, christ. WHITESPACE DIFFS.
[12:55] <daniels> heh
[12:55] <mjg59> ARGH NO MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY
[12:55] <daniels> mjg59: diff -w
[12:55] <mjg59> daniels: Executive summary - we're fucked.
[12:56] <mjg59> Unless someone can get a patch against the kernel code
[12:56] <zul> hmmm?
[12:57] <mjg59> zul: There are three sets of DRM code. The one in the kernel, the one from dri.freedesktop.org and the one from xorg.freedesktop.org
[12:57] <mjg59> The latter bears little resemblance to either of the former. Sadly, it's the latter that has the support for making 3D work after suspend/resume on Intel graphics hardware.
[12:57] <daniels> mjg59: i believe the stuff in the kernel should pretty much parallel dri.fd.o/drm
[12:58] <mjg59> daniels: Yeah, it just lags behind a bit
[12:58] <lupusBE> daniels, xproto is that available in hoary?
[12:58] <lupusBE> if so in which package?
[01:00] <mjg59> daniels: Any ideas about how to proceed?
[01:01] <daniels> mjg59: kick dave airlie (airlied/#freedesktop), ask him what the changes were between the stuff in extras/drm and dri.fd.o/drm, and then just work with that and see if you can get the power management delta applied with that in mind
[01:01] <daniels> lupusBE: xproto.pc is not available
[01:02] <lupusBE> how come it is not packaged? I'm building xcb for fun :)
[01:03] <daniels> lupusBE: because the modular xlibs are not packaged
[01:03] <lupusBE> ic
[01:03] <daniels> lupusBE: if you're building xcb, you probably want to start at the bottom of xlibs
[01:03] <daniels> it won't be very exciting for you
[01:04] <mjg59> I wish CVS had the concept of changesets
[01:04] <Clint> I wish cscvs were maintained
[01:05] <dilinger> i wish something like baz would become as ubiquitous as cvs
[01:06] <mjg59> daniels: On the bright side, the DRM diffs for the PM look fairly small
[01:07] <mjg59> Hrm. To  be brutally honest, I'm having trouble finding where the DRM code changes actually *are*
[01:08] <lupusBE> daniels, are there still problems with xcb (why it is not enabled in ubuntu?)
[01:09] <mjg59> Ah! Almost all the change is in the dri stuff, the DRM module just needs to flag that it does the right thing...
[01:10] <daniels> mjg59: heh
[01:10] <daniels> mjg59: probably, yeah
[01:10] <daniels> lupusBE: it's not ready yet.  doesn't support everything.
[01:13] <lupusBE> I thought xcb add the moment was more like a extension
[01:13] <lupusBE> then a real replacement
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[01:16] <daniels> no, xcb is a total replacement.  the entire point of xcb is that it's an alternative to xlib, and when you build xlib with xcb support as a wrapper, xcb replaces its entire transport layer.
[01:16] <daniels> it's nothing cool or fun, seriously.  the only difference you'll notice is that some stuff might break.
[01:18] <lupusBE> k :)
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[01:21] <lupusBE> s/add/at/ damn my english is bad somtimes
[01:22] <mjg59> Argh. Where's drm_drv.h gone?
[01:23] <mjg59> Ah. It's been merged into drm_drv.c. OBVIOUSLY.
[01:23] <mjg59> daniels: I've got a 17K patch that doesn't apply in the slightest
[01:23] <mjg59> But is probably fairly easily mergable
[01:24] <daniels> mjg59: cool.  i think the changes were mainly to core drm stuff rather than the i915 module
[01:25] <mjg59> Yeah.
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[01:25] <mjg59> So, do I get to make it your problem now? :)
[01:25] <daniels> mjg59: sure, it's easy -- just present me with a 17kB patch that applies and works. :)
[01:26] <mjg59> Argle.
[01:27] <daniels> at that point, I'm happy to adopt it as my problem
[01:31] <mjg59> I have no idea where the fuck half this code went
=== mjg59 screams
[01:34] <mjg59> IT'S BEEN ENTIRELY REWRITTEN
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[01:35] <mjg59> Ok, I'm starting to get a handle on this
[01:37] <zul> mako: ping
[01:39] <zul> mako: willy has signed my key
[01:40] <daniels> oh my god, are these guys for real?
[01:40] <daniels> afaict, evdev does not generate separate buttonpress and button release events
[01:41] <daniels> (for the mouse)
[01:44] <mjg59> daniels: This stuff is all crack. I may just see if I can hack in the i915 stuff and ignore the generalised PM support.
[01:45] <daniels> heh :)
[01:51] <daniels> mjg59: go poke dave airlie
[01:55] <daniels> mjg59: he's online at the moment
[01:55] <marcin_ant> hi guys - I'm looking for Apache Tomcat packages for ubuntu. Could you help me and tell if they are available somewhere?
[01:55] <daniels> mjg59: he's also your countryman
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[02:57] <lamont> daniels: you around?
[02:57] <daniels> no
[02:58] <lamont> heh.  getting ready to play with a kernel upload (abi bump) - the question is your preference: should I fix lrm, or let you have the hotseat later tonight?
[02:59] <daniels> if you want to fix lrm, that would be fantastic; also if CONFIG_DRM=m could get back in (aiui it isn't)
[03:02] <lamont> is here... I think that went into -19
[03:02] <daniels> ah, awesome, thanks
[03:03] <lamont> linux-source-2.6.10 (2.6.10-19) hoary; urgency=low
[03:03] <lamont>   * Build drm as module:
[03:03] <lamont>     - DRM=m.
[03:03] <daniels> rad
[03:04] <lamont> Kamion: if there are multiple ethernet interfaces, but only one has link, that one should just be the default, no?
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[03:17] <zul> night
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[03:30] <marcin_ant> where can I find "broken packages"?
[03:30] <marcin_ant> I need apache tomcat - I know that it is not buildable currently
[03:30] <marcin_ant> but I would like to take a look and try to find if I'll be able to fix it
[03:32] <HiddenWolf> Matt zimmerman is a ubuntu guy too, right?
[03:37] <jdub> HiddenWolf: mdz, head of the distro team.
[03:38] <HiddenWolf> jdub: thanks
[03:42] <marcin_ant> jdub: hi!
[03:43] <marcin_ant> jdub: maybe you know if Apache Tomcat packages are available somewhere?
[03:45] <jdub> nup, no idea
[03:47] <marcin_ant> jdub: someone here gave me link to build logs... 
[03:48] <marcin_ant> jdub: and there was only log with some errors
[03:48] <jdub> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/
[03:48] <marcin_ant> jdub: exactly
[03:48] <marcin_ant> jdub: but there is only log
[03:48] <marcin_ant> jdub: maybe you know where can I download source?
[03:49] <jdub> in the repositories
[03:49] <jdub> if it's in the build logs, it's in the repos
[03:50] <marcin_ant> you mean apt-get source tomcat4? 
[03:50] <jdub> yes
[03:50] <marcin_ant> heh :)
[03:51] <marcin_ant> sometimes it's hard to get really easy solution :)
[03:51] <marcin_ant> thanks :)
[04:02] <dilinger> herbert xu is doing kernel security updates for warty?
[04:03] <lamont> dilinger: I believe so
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=== lamont pokes smurfix 
[04:17] <lamont> or maybe Kamion 
[04:19] <lamont> hrm.. looks like really smurfix
[04:20] <daniels> lamont: keyboard selector?
[04:20] <lamont> cdebconf
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[04:42] <lamont> daniels: so for the abi roll in lrm...
[04:43] <daniels> yeah ...
[04:43] <daniels> ok
[04:43] <daniels> so bump everything in control
[04:43] <lamont> I change the minor versions in debian/rules, and the Depends/package names in control?
[04:43] <daniels> bump all the udebs in debian/d-i
[04:43] <daniels> change the minor versions
[04:43] <daniels> ... profit!
[04:45] <lamont> just debian/d-i/kernel-versions, yes?
[04:45] <daniels> yeah
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[04:48] <lamont> daniels: so why does nvidiaminor not have an _ like all the others???
[04:48] <lamont> *whap*
[04:48] <daniels> lamont: i dunno
[04:49] <lamont> you wanna review my changes before I upload?
[05:08] <lamont> back in a minute or so - need to reboot the router
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[05:15] <daniels> lamont: sure
[05:21] <lamont> mdz: home again?
[05:21] <lamont> daniels: diff mailed
[05:24] <daniels> lamont: thanks
[05:25] <lamont> just waiting for the kernel build to finish
=== lamont wants to build successfully on at least i386...
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[05:26] <CtrlPhrek> anyone installed on a dell inspiron 1150 yet? :)
[05:28] <mdz> lamont: not yet
[05:39] <lamont>   kdelibs-data: Depends: gnome-menus but it is not going to be installed
=== lamont giggles
[05:43] <jdub> morning mdz 
=== lamont grumbles at the circular build-dep loop involving gnome, dbus, and kde
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=== lamont waits for the kernel to finish building, so that he can sleep
[06:23] <HiddenWolf> lamont, that kernel will build no faster if you stay awake to encourage it
[06:24] <daniels> a watched kernel never compiles
=== HiddenWolf should sleep aswell
[06:27] <lamont> well, if I stall another 33 minutes, then (1) 4/5 i386 kernels will probably be done, and (2) I can flat guarantee that the new kernel will not show up in the daily builds at all
[06:27] <lamont> these are both _good_ things
[06:28] <HiddenWolf> lamont: how is delaying the goodness a good thing? :-)
[06:28] <HiddenWolf> unless you're sure it's broken. :-P
[06:28] <lamont> because Kamion  needs to bump d-i as well.
[06:28] <lamont> so the daily builds would definitely be broken if I managed to get it into the archive
[06:29] <lamont> then again, if I just wait another 2 minutes or so, then the source will be there in time, but the binaries won't
=== HiddenWolf thinks that warrants calling kamion in the middle of the night and raise hell. 
[06:29] <lamont> nah - is planned
=== HiddenWolf just likes to raise hell
[06:30] <daniels> lamont: if you wanted to do l-r-m-2.6.11 while you were at it ... ;)
[06:30] <HiddenWolf> Anyhow, I've been destructive enough. Bought more cd's over amazon tonight then I did in the last few years. Need to be off. :)
[06:30] <lamont> daniels: not really
[06:30] <lamont> daniels: but the patch looked good to you?
=== HiddenWolf goes off
[06:31] <daniels> lamont: email hasn't been arriving today :(
[06:31] <daniels> i trust your skillz tho
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[06:31] <lamont> daniels: daniel.stone@ubuntu.com, yes?
[06:32] <daniels> lamont: yeah, but nothing's been getting through for the last few hours
[06:33] <lamont> bummer
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[06:34] <da_bon_bon> OOo2.0-devel hangs while creating pdf files ?
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[07:03] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ esd --help
[07:03] <bluefoxicy> polypaudio esd wrapper 0.7
[07:03] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ esd -d /dev/dsp -unix
[07:03] <bluefoxicy> main.c: read() failed: No such file or directory
[07:03] <bluefoxicy> known bug yet?
[07:14] <lamont> daniels: so you have no objections to the kernel being uploaded, yes?
[07:14] <daniels> lamont: none whatsoever
[07:14] <lamont> Kamion hasn't given a green light, but seemed to be assuming that it would upload... so I'm gonna consider that "green"?
[07:14] <lamont> s/?$//
[07:15] <lamont> the demo CD got all warm fuzzy and all that then?
=== lamont upload
[07:17] <lamont> s
[07:19] <daniels> lamont: yah :)
=== lamont sleeps
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[07:56] <sivang> Mortning all
[08:01] <sivang> any known problem with the apache2 package in main? seems to give me nothinig after I install it
[08:01] <sivang> using the /etc/init.d/apache2 script to start/stop it doesn't yield any reasonable results.
[08:02] <daniels> have a look in /etc/default/apache2
[08:02] <sivang> daniels:  ah ok, I may have missing some config options needed there?
[08:04] <sivang> daniels: thanks alot, this was the one I was looking for. Is this somekind of security thing? not having it enable by default?
=== sivang --> breakfast.
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[08:14] <daniels> sivang: it was more for install compatibility with a1, i think
[08:34] <smurfix> lamont: ?
[08:35] <smurfix> Ah, autoconf. Sigh. Forgot it again. :-(
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[08:38] <amu> moins 
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[08:52] <sivang> daniels: ah ok, should probably be added to the after the install or something, or into the README.Debian
[08:52] <sivang> daniels: I mean - a message about it etc.
[09:02] <sivang> moins amu 
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[09:23] <amu> hey sivang
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[09:24] <dholbach> good morning
[09:25] <sivang> moring dholbach 
[09:25] <dholbach> hello sivan!
[09:26] <dholbach> already here or still here?
[09:26] <sivang> dholbach: already here, trying to switch back to GMT
[09:26] <sivang> :)
[09:26] <dholbach> sounds like a good plan :-)
[09:30] <amu> someone has also problmens with booting the daily live? 
[09:32] <zenrox> spammer in #ubuntu
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[10:03] <Kamion> morning folks
[10:03] <Kamion> hm, I wonder what mdz meant about the live CD having bitrotted; the last one I tried was fine
[10:03] <Mithrandir> hi Colin
[10:04] <Kamion> ah, he sent mail
[10:04] <Kamion> hey Tollef
[10:04] <daniels> yo tollef, colin
[10:05] <Treenaks> Anyone coming to FOSDEM this weekend? :)
=== dholbach won't :-(
[10:05] <Mithrandir> I am
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[10:06] <dholbach> hai d3vic3 
[10:06] <d3vic3> lo dholbach 
[10:06] <Mithrandir> daniels: hmm, I think I was going to ask you something about fd.o, but I've forgotten now. :/
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[10:07] <daniels> Mithrandir: word
[10:07] <pitti> Morning
[10:07] <daniels> morning pitti
[10:07] <dholbach> hi pitti
[10:08] <Mithrandir> I guess it'll come about and I can just ask you then. (:
[10:09] <daniels> heh
[10:11] <Kamion> amu: what's the problem?
[10:13] <amu> it wont boot, insert the CD, nothing happen
[10:13] <amu> +ed
[10:13] <Kamion> I'm just rsyncing live/i386 now
[10:14] <dholbach> morning mvo :-)
[10:15] <mvo> hi dholbach, morning all
[10:17] <amu> Kamion: i'll try later with another (new) blank media, tried with 2005-02-21 09:03 hoary-live-i386.iso
[10:18] <daniels> unfortunately I'm fresh out of blank media
[10:19] <amu> moins mvo, you lost a "_" in your nick :)
[10:20] <dholbach> amu, yes, celebrate! :-)
[10:20] <mvo> amu: it's my nick now :) I had to pay the other "mvo" beer to get it, but we settled it now
[10:20] <dholbach> he had to duel the other mvo :-)
[10:20] <dholbach> oh mvo: my story was far more exciting ;-)
[10:20] <Kamion> lamont: the linux-source-2.6.10 .dsc looks totally broken
[10:20] <Kamion>  linux-headers-2.6.10-3 - Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.10
[10:20] <Kamion>  linux-headers2.6.10-4-386 - Linux kernel headers 2.6.10 on 386
[10:21] <mvo> dholbach: I'm a shy person, I didn't wanted to tell all the bloody details
[10:21] <dholbach> hehe :-)
[10:21] <Kamion> any kernel team types around, or shall I upload to fix that?
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=== Kamion takes silence as consent ...
[10:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: just upload.
[10:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm just amd64 porter kernel guy, but still. :P
[10:25] <Kamion> on its way
[10:25] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: you're no longer a czar? :P
[10:26] <dholbach> hi dredg 
[10:26] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: of course I'm the AMD64 czar as well, but that wasn't so relevant in this context.
[10:26] <dredg> lo dholbach 
[10:27] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: isn't kernel porting part of the czar's responsibilities? :)
[10:27] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure. ;)
[10:27] <Kamion> surely delegating kernel porting is part of the czar's responsibilities ... :)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> I just need to acquire some subjects I can delegate to. :)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> but now, breakfast
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[10:31] <pitti> Hey, ppc sleep patches in latest Hoary kernel
[10:31] <pitti> THAAAANKS lamont
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[10:31] <sivang> Morning pitti !
[10:32] <pitti> Hi sivang 
=== sivang is attempting switching back to GTM :)
[10:32] <sivang> s/GTM/GMT/
[10:32] <pitti> sivang: btw, I think I finally know how we tackle gcm
[10:32] <sivang> pitti: yay, am all ears.
[10:32] <pitti> sivang: instead of providing two C functions, I will provide two programs
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[10:33] <pitti> sivang: cupsys-enable-browsing and cupsys-get-browsing
[10:33] <pitti> sivang: the former has to be called with gksudo
[10:33] <pitti> sivang: thus you spawn a gksudo cupsys-enable-browsing $enable in g-c-m
[10:33] <sivang> pitti: hmm, sounds pretty cool :)
[10:33] <pitti> sivang: so we don't need weak permissions on the conffile
[10:33] <sivang> pitti: yes
[10:34] <pitti> sivang: and in addition I don't need to write the conffile juggling in C
[10:34] <pitti> but can use e.g. python
[10:34] <sivang> pitti: rock
[10:34] <pitti> sivang: so please write your interface in a way that you encapsulate the program calls in two central functions
[10:34] <sivang> pitti: could you remind me the limitation which suggested you need to write the juggeling in C ?
[10:34] <pitti> sivang: so we can exchange the backend interface with relatively little effort
[10:35] <pitti> sivang: initially I wanted to make the code part of libgnomecupsui
[10:35] <sivang> pitti: ahh
[10:35] <pitti> sivang: but since we don't want to run g-c-m with root privs, we now call an external program
[10:35] <pitti> sivang: and with gksudo we don't need setuid
[10:35] <pitti> Kamion: ^ would that work for you?
[10:35] <sivang> pitti: would probably be better to seperate it to an external programs anyways, to enable pulginability
[10:36] <pitti> Kamion: calling a cupsys wrapper over gksudo?
[10:36] <pitti> sivang: the additional scripts will be part of cupsys
[10:36] <pitti> sivang: since cupsys does not need to be installed, please check for the existance of these scripts
[10:36] <sivang> pitti: part of the ubutnu pkgs that is, not upstream right?
[10:36] <pitti> sivang: if they aren't present, don't display the stuff
[10:36] <pitti> sivang: yes, Ubuntu specific (maybe Debian adopts it)
[10:36] <sivang> pitti: ok
[10:37] <Kamion> lamont: I think you could lose minipatch.diff from the source package
[10:37] <Kamion> pitti: sounds reasonable
[10:37] <pitti> ok
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[10:39] <sivang> pitti: I'm puzzled by the fact that cupsys need not be installed in order to have gcm
[10:39] <seb128> grrrr inotify
[10:39] <pitti> sivang: well, cupsys-client should be enough to add printers
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: boot with "noinotify"
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: and watch all the gnome hotplug stuff get working again :-)
[10:40] <sivang> pitti: ok
[10:40] <seb128> pitti: I've restarted with noinotify yep
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[10:46] <Kamion> lamont: might wanna kill the .svn directories in debian/d-i/hppa/modules/
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[10:47] <trukulo> daniels, u there?
[10:47] <trukulo> only one question
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[10:49] <rburton> daniels: ping?
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[10:51] <trukulo> fabbione, ping
[10:54] <pitti> trukulo: fabbione is on holiday
[10:54] <dholbach> bbl
[10:54] <pitti> sivang: I appended the spec to #2251
[10:55] <pitti> sivang: please review it again
[10:55] <trukulo> pitti, ah, thanks for info
[10:56] <sivang> pitti: ok, onto it now
[10:58] <Kamion> amu: today's daily-live i386 image boots fine for me
[11:00] <sivang> pitti: looks pretty good
[11:00] <sivang> pitti: I'll investigate where this can be integrated in the gui
[11:00] <amu> Kamion: thx, i'm also syncing now
[11:01] <Kamion> (as did yesterday's)
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[11:20] <stockholm> elmo: awake?
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[11:29] <dholbach> re
[11:32] <ogra> moin
[11:33] <Kamion> daniels: safe for me to upload stuff like base-config yet?
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[11:37] <Mitario> morning
[11:37] <rburton> when i tried the LWE livecd i had display corruption (looked like every other row was offset) on nvidia, is this a known/fixed problem?
[11:39] <mvo> hi Mitario 
[11:46] <amu> rburton: it's fixed in ubuntu's live
[11:46] <rburton> amu: ah cool
[11:46] <rburton> Kamion: did you manage to try and find the wireless network bug?
[11:47] <rburton> Kamion: note that it worked for me with LWE's live cd from 17/2
[11:47] <stockholm> when does elmo get up, normally?
[11:48] <stockholm> or rather: when is he available?
[11:49] <amu> rburton: tested some minutes ago, live from yesterday, with a ipw2200, my card is detected, but not configured
[11:50] <amu> daniels: Kamion: problem with german lan is still there :) i choose german, got a pc104 with us layout 
[11:50] <sivang> stockholm: should be here in sometime I think, he usually follows GMT daytime IIRC
[11:50] <sivang> stockholm: what do you need?
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[11:51] <sivang> stockholm: speaking of the devil :-)
[11:52] <stockholm> sivang: (c:
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[12:08] <Kamion> rburton: thought I said I'd fixed it
[12:08] <rburton> Kamion: ah, must have missed that
[12:08] <rburton> i'll rsync and try
[12:08] <Kamion> cool, thanks
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[12:09] <rburton> i wish firewire support didn't suck in linux
[12:10] <elmo_> Kamion: /etc/yaboot.conf from where?
[12:10] <elmo_> Kamion: neither first nor second stage seem to have one
[12:11] <Kamion> elmo_: second stage. uh, how do you boot a Mac without /etc/yaboot.conf?
[12:11] <elmo_> it's live?
[12:11] <Kamion> oh
[12:11] <Kamion> hmm
=== elmo_ points to first word of subject in mail kamion was replying to ;-)
[12:12] <Kamion> d'oh
[12:12] <Kamion> elmo_: well, we only pivot, we don't exec a new kernel, so the kernel should still have that argument
[12:13] <Kamion> so I don't know what that could be ...
[12:13] <elmo_> hmm.  ok.  and yeah, I realised now the command line argument thing is crack as the console is fine up until X starts
[12:27] <elmo_> heh, stracing eject is neat and all, but afterwards things like less don't work anymore, making it not entirely useful :)
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[12:30] <Xof> reset / stty sane?
[12:32] <elmo_> Xof: hmm? no, the point is, I'm running of a live CD and I just ejected the CD, so any further attempts to run stuff just gives me IO errors :)
[12:32] <Xof> oh, fair enough
[12:33] <Xof> that's a rather more fundamental problem
[12:37] <HiddenWolf> XoF: you're kidding. :-P
[12:46] <pitti> sivang: my scripts work
[12:46] <pitti> sivang: now I'll package that stuff
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> Will mdz be around?
[12:48] <elmo_> hum.  is xresprobe meant to get things completely wrong with a KVM?
[12:48] <pitti> HiddenWolf: he's on vacation
[12:48] <Kamion> mdz's on holiday, he'll be back at some point I'm sure
[12:49] <elmo_> completely wrong to the extent of calling and LCD a CRT etc.
[12:49] <elmo_> s/and/an/
[12:49] <Kamion> elmo_: strace> mount a tmpfs first and put the stuff you need there
=== HiddenWolf will suffer in silence
[12:49] <elmo_> Kamion: I just ran lftp before running the eject; that got it in the kernel memory
[12:50] <elmo_> Kamion: people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/eject-strace.txt - if you care; I'll put it in a bug later
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[12:54] <daniels> Kamion: go nuts
[12:54] <daniels> amu: yeah
[12:54] <daniels> rburton: pong
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[12:55] <Kamion> whoa, while tmpfs is cool, running a kernel build in one and hosing your laptop due to thrashing is less cool
[12:55] <Kamion> especially because that stupid patch-series system wants ALL YOUR INODES
[12:56] <HiddenWolf> kamion: if it doesn't smoke, it's not broken.
[12:56] <rburton> daniels: too late. i was asking about nv display corruption on the LWE livecd, but i hear its been fixed already
[12:56] <Kamion> ioctl(3, CDROMEJECT, 0x24000442)        = -1 EIO (Input/output error)
[12:57] <Kamion> elmo_: does ejecting the CD in software normally work on that box?
[12:57] <Kamion> thankfully Macs still have a three-finger salute
[12:59] <pitti> Kamion: Ctrl+Apple+Power Button?
[12:59] <Kamion> yes
[12:59] <pitti> :-)
[12:59] <pitti> Kamion: however, ctrl+alt+del works for me, too
[12:59] <Kamion> pitti: yes, but that requires software cooperation
[12:59] <pitti> right
[01:00] <Kamion> pitti: which is slightly less effective when your box is busy trying to swap everything out to disk
[01:00] <pitti> Kamion: btw, does sleeping now work reliably on your powerbook?
[01:00] <pitti> Kamion: I'm eager to test the new kernel :-) but it is not yet built
[01:00] <Kamion> pitti: haven't tried yet, we haven't had a successful kernel build with that patch; I'm fixing
[01:00] <pitti> Kamion: I thought you were using the kernel built in Matar?
[01:01] <pitti> (for testing sleep, at least)
[01:01] <Kamion> oh, I'm using that normally yes, works fine
=== thom is going to get *very* bored of typing "nsCOMPtr<foo>" very soon
[01:05] <Treenaks> thom: hacking firefox?
[01:05] <thom> Treenaks: backporting security fixes
[01:05] <Treenaks> thom: ugh
[01:05] <thom> very
[01:05] <Treenaks> you could add a macro for that..
[01:05] <pitti> thom: inoremap :-)
[01:06] <sivang> pitti: cool
[01:07] <elmo_> Kamion: actually, I just tried i386 and eject doesn't even work there
[01:07] <thom> i could, indeed
[01:08] <Kamion> it's been working for me on amd64
[01:09] <elmo_> eject: unable to eject, last error: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[01:09] <elmo_> is warty error message on the same box as that strace
[01:10] <elmo_> and with warty it doesn't even manage to physically eject the CD
[01:10] <Kamion> it always complains (Invalid argument, I think), but it does work
[01:10] <Kamion> mdz mentioned that he got the complaint too, but it ejected nevertheless
[01:11] <elmo_> it does eject with hoary live, problem is because eject returns !0, it hangs the reboot process
[01:11] <Kamion> ah
[01:11] <elmo_> which combined with the powerpc console breakage, is particularly confusing :)
[01:11] <Kamion> er, no, that makes no sense
[01:11] <elmo_> Kamion: ?
[01:11] <Kamion> eject is run from a script that isn't 'set -e'
[01:11] <Kamion> I don't see how its exit code could even be noticed
[01:12] <dholbach> d3vic3: ping
[01:12] <d3vic3> dholbach, pong
[01:12] <Kamion> there's a deliberate "Please remove the disc and press Enter:" prompt
[01:13] <dholbach> d3vic3: cool - have a question concerning apoo - wanted to do its transition
[01:13] <elmo_> Kamion: oh, eww!
[01:13] <elmo_> I assumed it only prompted you if it failed to remove the disc - why always prompt?
[01:13] <Kamion> elmo_: presumably to stop the "disc goes out, disc gets sucked straight back in again" effect on many systems
[01:13] <dholbach> d3vic3: Package: python2.3-apoo - Conflicts: python2.3-apoo   <-- this can't be intentionally
[01:13] <Kamion> e.g. my amd64 system un-ejects the CD at POST time
[01:13] <Kamion> or before
[01:14] <elmo_> but wouldn't install have the same problem?
[01:14] <d3vic3> dholbach, yes, it can't be 
[01:14] <Kamion> elmo_: install takes a bit longer to reboot, and there's a prompt immediately beforehand telling you to remove the disc
[01:14] <Kamion> to reboot after the disc gets ejected, I mean
[01:14] <dholbach> d3vic3: just wanted to make sure, i didnt get things wrong :-)
[01:15] <ogra> amu: i just mailed karriere@credativ ;)
[01:15] <dholbach> d3vic3: i'll throw out 2.2 
[01:15] <d3vic3> dholbach, cool 
[01:16] <dholbach> apoo-2.2 that is :-)
[01:17] <dholbach> ogra: they'll do good with a master of the universe :-)
[01:17] <ogra> hopefully....
[01:18] <amu> ogra: hehe
[01:18] <ogra> :)
[01:19] <rburton> daniels: eek, just tried latest livecd and it still happens
[01:20] <rburton> daniels: pretty much unreadable, every other line is shifted a pixel
[01:20] <rburton> Kamion: much better, network detection doesn't loop. is there any way of giving it a WEP key?
[01:23] <Kamion> rburton: not in the first stage in live mode; use network configuration in GNOME
[01:23] <rburton> okie
[01:24] <Kamion> NOPASSWD sudo is broken in today's daily; the password is ubuntu
[01:25] <rburton> i wanted to see if hoary will power-off my desktop (warty doesn't) and if firewire has improved
[01:33] <pitti> elmo_: bidwatcher and prozilla syncs, please (new upstream microreleases to fix security bugs; but both in universe)
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[01:41] <elmo_> Kamion: I don't suppose there's a live net-boot, right? :)
[01:43] <Kamion> elmo_: it would be possible to construct one, but it doesn't exist yet
[01:43] <elmo_> ok, cool (don't get me wrong, I don't want/need one, just needed to know if I was meant to be testing it
[01:44] <Kamion> ah, ok. we'd need somewhere public to put the rootfs to make that work
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=== sivang out --> be back later
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[01:59] <elmo_> upload.ubuntu.com (aka ftp-master etc.) is going away in 5 mins for 5-10 mins
=== pitti hurries up to upload his cupsys crack
[02:00] <Kamion> d3vic3: you're not uploading packages *just* for Standards-Version increments, are you?
[02:00] <Kamion> d3vic3: S-V is pretty unimportant really ...
[02:07] <pitti> sivang: new cupsys is up
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[02:12] <d3vic3> Kamion, no 
[02:12] <d3vic3> the std ver was 3.5.10 in gaby's case 
[02:13] <d3vic3> testing on python2.4 produced an error 
[02:13] <sivang> pitti: yay cool, however I need to take care of something, so I will add the gui support later today.
[02:14] <Kamion> d3vic3: gcipher was the one I noticed, where that was the only change noted in the changelog
[02:14] <d3vic3> hmmm
[02:16] <sivang> pitti: and prepare a new gnome-cups-manager package.
[02:18] <sivang> laterz all
[02:19] <elmo_> upload.ubuntu.com (aka ftp-master etc.) is back
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[02:24] <elmo_> mjg59: is "Video state get buffer" (or summat like that) your vbetool thing at work?
[02:27] <mjg59> elmo_: Yeah
[02:28] <elmo_> Get video state buffer size failed
[02:28] <elmo_> Save video state failed
[02:28] <mjg59> On x86?
[02:28] <elmo_> I've gotten that on every i386 server so far
[02:28] <elmo_> yeah
[02:29] <mjg59> They probably lack a VESA BIOS
[02:29] <mjg59> (which isn't unsurprising)
[02:29] <mjg59> Uh, which isn't surprising
[02:29] <mjg59> The information is only used for suspend/resume support
[02:30] <elmo_> ok
[02:33] <elmo_> hey, is the auto-upgrade stuff going to be in hoary?
[02:34] <elmo_> auto-CD-upgrade
[02:34] <ogra> isnt it already in ?
[02:34] <elmo_> could be, that's why I'm asking :)
[02:35] <ogra> at least for me a popup asks if i want to....(never clicked ok though)
[02:38] <Kamion> elmo_: yeah, definitely in
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[02:44] <lamont> Kamion: you fix that for me?
[02:44] <lamont> could have sworn I got all of them.
[02:44] <Kamion> lamont: fix which?
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[02:45] <lamont> linux-source - is there anything newer than -22?
[02:45] <Kamion> nope
[02:45] <Kamion> -21 was to fix the package names, -22 was to fix me forgetting 00list-* in -21 ...
[02:45] <lamont> which, btw, is ftbfs on ppc in pmac_cache.S
=== lamont runs kids to school, will stare at kernel stuff after that
[02:46] <Kamion> yeah, I just noticed that :( must be the sleep patches
[02:46] <Kamion> it's vaguely familiar from before ...
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[02:55] <Kamion> lamont: try Debian #263057?
[02:55] <Kamion> lamont: although the patch there isn't applicable, even semantically ...
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[02:59] <dholbach> d3vic3: WOW... you shrink wiki/UniversePythonTransitionTODO in no time :-)
[03:02] <Kamion> lamont: I'll mail benh and ask for advice
[03:06] <d3vic3> dholbach, what you mean ? 
[03:07] <dholbach> d3vic3: you really get work done! :-)
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[03:07] <dholbach> hi zul
[03:07] <zul> hey dholbach 
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[03:10] <Mithrandir> elmo_: please sync openbox from debian incoming.
[03:10] <tseng> Mithrandir: heh, did you fix that nautilus buglet?
[03:11] <Mithrandir> yes; it's openbox's fault.
[03:11] <tseng> yeah I figured that out.. then saw you talking about it the other day
[03:11] <tseng> cheers
[03:11] <Mithrandir> it put out some _crazy_ numbers for the desktop size
[03:12] <zul> mako: ping
[03:14] <pitti> lamont: here?
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[03:31] <zul> pitti, is there something i can help you with
[03:31] <pitti> zul: hi, wrt what?
[03:31] <zul> kernel stuff or is it something else you were going to ask lamont about
[03:32] <pitti> zul: I have a buildd problem, by security upload doesn't build :-(
[03:32] <zul> doh
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[03:47] <zul> hey mako
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[03:52] <zul> mako: willy has signed my key so now what?
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[04:03] <ogra> zul: upload your key and the signature to a public keyserver
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[04:03] <zul> ogra: ok will no
[04:03] <ogra> zul: then sign the code of conduct and send it to mako
[04:04] <elmo_> Kamion: ?
[04:04] <Kamion> elmo_: ?
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[04:05] <ogra> zul: for uploading you have to additionally send the key and your mailaddress to the addresses mentioned on the Uploads wiki page
[04:06] <elmo_> Kamion: will debootstrap --arch=i386 DTRT on amd64?
[04:06] <elmo_> and/or is there another/better way to get an i386 chroot on an amd64 box
[04:06] <Kamion> debootstrap --arch=i386 works
[04:07] <Kamion> you might want to use linux32 to force the kernel personality to 32-bit (affects uname())
[04:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: d'you think we should have linux32 in main?
[04:08] <elmo_> heck yes
[04:08] <dholbach> doko: ping
[04:09] <elmo_> tho IANAMITHRANDIR
[04:09] <Kamion> it didn't build on amd64 in warty for some reason, probably hence the oversight
[04:09] <elmo_>    linux32 |        1-1 | warty/universe | source, i386
[04:09] <elmo_> yeah, meh
[04:10] <Kamion> looks like it was PaSed or something, oh well
[04:12] <mako_> zul: hey there
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[04:17] <doko> dholbach: pong
[04:18] <elmo_> cdrecord: Success. write_g1: scsi sendcmd: no error
[04:18] <elmo_> go useful error messages
[04:18] <ogra> hehe
[04:19] <ogra> cdrecord is soo beautyful
[04:19] <dholbach> doko: i'm looking at vtk atm, it doesnt provide a python2.x-vtk, but just python-vtk - what do you reckon, i should do? just let it build 2.4 modules?
[04:19] <zul> mako: so willy signed my key im going to upload the signature
[04:20] <Treenaks> zul: is your (signed) pubkey on the servers?
[04:22] <zul> Treenaks, i did an gpg --armout --output signature.asci
[04:22] <zul> Treenaks, yeah i uploaded to the server that mako preferred
[04:23] <mako> zul: hey there
[04:24] <zul> mako: i sent you the signed coc correct?
[04:27] <doko> dholbach: yes, that should be sufficient
[04:27] <mako> zul: hold up dude, caffienated
[04:28] <mako> sorry caffienating
[04:28] <zul> k
[04:28] <dholbach> doko: cool, thanks
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=== Kamion semi-fixes #3690. phew
=== elmo_ looks at kamion
[04:33] <elmo_> 2005-02-22 15:20: base-config_2.62ubuntu2_source.changes
[04:33] <elmo_> 2005-02-22 15:25: base-config_2.62ubuntu3_source.changes
[04:33] <elmo_> 2005-02-22 15:30: base-config_2.62ubuntu4_source.changes
[04:33] <HiddenWolf> kamion is enjoying himself obviously. :-)
[04:33] <elmo_> "The JoeyH tribute band, led by Colin Watson"
[04:34] <Kamion> heh
[04:34] <Kamion> base-config is a bitch to test
[04:34] <Kamion> don't worry, I've stopped now ... for the moment
[04:38] <elmo_> anyone who cares, concordia now has a i386 chroot, 'linux32 dchroot -c hoary-i386' will get you there
[04:39] <thom> elmo_: i won't care till concordia is sat under my desk ;-)
[04:40] <Kamion> sheesh, imagemagick not in desktop?
[04:41] <Kamion> anyone fancy doing a lilo boot graphic?
[04:42] <Kamion> Ubuntu-branded
=== jamin [~jamin@cust-24.241.99.54.cbnstl.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sivang --> back
[04:48] <dholbach> wb sivan
[04:49] <sivang> dholbach: hey
[04:52] <amu> away abendessen
[04:53] <dholbach> guten hunger, amu :-)
[04:53] <amu> argl :) danke
[04:54] <elmo_> oh wow, the serial console 'text mode' is SO old skool
[04:55] <Kamion> YM the cdebconf text frontend?
[04:55] <HiddenWolf> elmo_ That's half the fun about linux: Every once in a while, you still find the look and feel of a 80's mainframe. :)
[04:55] <elmo_> yean, the 'readline' thing
[04:56] <elmo_> Kamion: hum.  
[04:56] <elmo_> If possible, the first 
[04:56] <elmo_> connected network interface found has been selected.
[04:56] <elmo_> if it says that, but then prompts me, does that mean it couldn't figure it out?
=== Simira [rpGirl@m146i.studby.ntnu.no]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:57] <elmo_> 'cos I have no idea either, and it's not like I can switch to another VC ;)
[04:57] <Kamion> that means it's selected that as the default answer (if you can tell the difference in readline)
[04:58] <elmo_> Prompt: '?' for help>
[04:58] <elmo_> if there's a default it would say "; default=<n>" after 'help'
[04:58] <Kamion> in that case it probably couldn't do mii/ethtool; just pick one and sort it out later
[04:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, absolutely.
=== haggai [~halls@i-83-67-20-196.freedom2surf.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:01] <pitti> lamont: pinnnnnng
=== Arrogance [~aks@CPE0050ba556e4b-CM001225423850.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:04] <elmo_> Starting up the partitioner  ..11%..22%..33%..44%..50%..61%..72%Partition disks
[05:04] <elmo_> !! ERROR: No partitionable media
[05:05] <elmo_> ... you said.  Our survery said ... BZZZZT
[05:05] <Kamion> anything in /dev/discs?
[05:06] <elmo_> cat: /dev/discs: No such file or directory
[05:06] <Kamion> (it'd be a directory, but yeah)
[05:06] <lamont> pitti: yo
[05:06] <Kamion> um, what hard disk driver would it need?
[05:06] <mako> jdub: around? #ubuntu-meeting if you are
=== lamont finally allows his computer to force him to take a 1 minute break
[05:06] <elmo_> Kamion: ah, nm, it's mpt fusion
[05:07] <Kamion> ok, so will be fixed; modprobe mptscsih in the meantime
[05:07] <elmo_> uh, no module available
[05:07] <Kamion> architecture?
[05:07] <elmo_> ia64
[05:08] <Kamion> it got built in for a while ...
[05:08] <Kamion> maybe that didn't work properly or something
[05:08] <elmo_> is the config around at this stage?
[05:08] <elmo_> kernel config I mean
[05:09] <Mithrandir> elmo_: /proc/config.gz ought to
[05:09] <lamont> Kamion: it got removed in -20, iirc
[05:09] <lamont> so depending on which ISO he's booting...
[05:10] <elmo_> the scsi vs. scsi-extra is a bit strange
[05:10] <Kamion> you might be booting a -20 kernel but have -19 modules
[05:10] <Kamion> or something similar
[05:10] <elmo_> scsi seems to contain a bunch of 80's SCSI cards, and then mpt fusion which is in a whole bunch of modern servers is in extra
[05:10] <Kamion> ./modules/ia64/scsi-modules:5:drivers/message/fusion/mptscsih.o
[05:11] <Kamion> although I see your point on i386
[05:11] <Kamion> do you find mpt fusion on many powerpc systems?
[05:11] <elmo_> err, dunno, ours aren't SCSI
[05:11] <Kamion> all the same, it doesn't matter
[05:12] <Kamion> scsi-modules is for stuff like SCSI CD-ROMs
[05:12] <Kamion> i.e. when you need the SCSI driver before you get a chance to install more udebs
[05:13] <elmo_> ah, k
[05:13] <Kamion> although I suppose if you were actually attaching the CD-ROM drive via SCSI on one of these systems it would make a difference; I take it you aren't
[05:13] <elmo_> how do I tell what kernel etc. I'm on?
[05:13] <elmo_> 'cos dpkg -c scsi-modules-2.6.10-3-itanium-smp-di_2.6.10-19_ia64.udeb  | grep mpt
[05:13] <elmo_> isn't giving me no love
[05:13] <Kamion> elmo_: grep 'Version: 2.6.10' /var/lib/dpkg/status
[05:14] <Kamion> if it's all the same version apart from the l-r-m stuff, you're in sync
[05:14] <elmo_> eh.. .*2.6.10 ?
[05:14] <elmo_> oh, meh, wrong machine, nm
[05:14] <elmo_> yeah, 2.6.19-19
[05:16] <elmo_> oh my god you can't search in more(1)
[05:17] <elmo_> Kamion: how does the busybox environment not drive you insane?
[05:17] <elmo_> I keep wanting to do basic things (grep -A) that don't work
[05:18] <thom> elmo_: see, you're assuming he's not insane already
[05:19] <Mithrandir> elmo_: I think you have nano in there
[05:19] <elmo_> okay, so CONFIG_FUSION=m, but the module isn't in scsi-modules and there's no scsi-extra-modules; do I need to retry this when 2.6.10-20 filters through to a CD?
=== eruin [~eruin@eruin.user]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:21] <pitti> Kamion: what do you think about dropping most of cyrus-sasl from supported?
[05:21] <pitti> Kamion: nothing really depends on its packages, most of the world uses cyrus-sasl2 now
[05:21] <Kamion> elmo_: probably, yeah
[05:21] <Kamion> pitti: will check in a moment
=== Amaranth [Amaranth@amaranth.user]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:24] <thom> what the hell does "foundWindow = !!namedItem;" result in? C++
[05:24] <mjg59> elmo_: Kamion: When -20 is built for PPC, any chance of you checking whether sleep/resume works?
[05:25] <elmo_> mjg59: will do
[05:25] <Kamion> mjg59: will do, but it'll have to be -23 since -20 to -22 don't build on powerpc
[05:25] <Kamion> I've mailed benh asking if he can supply a fix
[05:25] <mjg59> Kamion: Erk. What's the failure?
[05:26] <lamont> mjg59: bad ppc
[05:26] <lamont> arch/ppc/platforms/pmac_cache.S: Assembler messages:
[05:26] <lamont> arch/ppc/platforms/pmac_cache.S:53: Error: Unrecognized opcode: `dssall'
[05:26] <lamont> arch/ppc/platforms/pmac_cache.S:171: Error: Unrecognized opcode: `dssall'
[05:26] <mjg59> lamont: ?
[05:26] <mjg59> Argh.
[05:26] <elmo_> boggle
[05:26] <lamont> that's on power-3
[05:26] <mjg59> Blah, that's from one of my patches
[05:26] <elmo_> that's a really old failure
[05:26] <lamont> elmo_: was introduced with one of mjg59's patches
[05:27] <pitti> Kamion, elmo_: the latest cyrus-sasl security upload has a medium-sized problem
[05:27] <Kamion> it's a power3-only thing
[05:27] <Kamion> thom: !! is an idiom for turning anything into a boolean
[05:27] <thom> Kamion: ahah, thanks
[05:27] <pitti> Kamion: cyrus-sasl was FTBFS in Warty due to a partial libdb3 -> libdb4.2 transition
[05:27] <Kamion> thom: i.e. 0 => 0, non-0 => 1
[05:28] <Kamion> elmo_: there was an old binutils bug I found that you'd commented on with the same failure, but the patch that solved that has been applied
[05:28] <elmo_> oh, is the stuff mjg59 stole from gentoo?
[05:28] <pitti> Kamion, elmo_: ^ c-sasl depends on libdb3-dev and heimdal-dev, but the latter depends on libdb4.2-dev (and both versions conflict to each other)
[05:29] <mjg59> elmo_: No, it's from bk
[05:29] <pitti> Kamion, elmo_: since we shouldn't break the db format for a security update, what do you think about manually rebuilding the package with an older heiimdal-dev (with libdb3)?
[05:29] <Kamion> pitti: vomit
[05:30] <pitti> Kamion: welcome in the club
=== pitti wades through the mess
[05:30] <lamont> was fixed in hoary by adopting the debian change to cyrus-sasl, which ISTR was just s/db3/db4.2/
[05:31] <lamont> accompanied by prayers about db conversion if needed
[05:31] <lamont> most of the file format was the same, iirc
[05:31] <lamont> there was certainly a diff, but I think it was off in some wierd logging corner case or some such.. dunno
[05:31] <mjg59> Kamion: By the looks of it, that code just shouldn't be built on POWER3
[05:32] <lamont> mjg59: does this mean I get a new patch from you?
[05:32] <Kamion> mjg59: our power3 build has PPC_PMAC turned on
=== Kamion tries to remember if there are power3 pmac machines?
=== lamont considers making Kamion check in his changes to the arch tree
[05:32] <Kamion> lamont: happy to ...
[05:32] <mjg59> There are no real power3 pmac machines
[05:33] <Kamion> oh, there we go, just kill that then?
[05:33] <lamont> p.u.c:~lamont/public_html/Archives/...
[05:33] <mjg59> I've no idea if power3 has semantics that make it useful in other cases
[05:33] <mjg59> But if the Mac kernels are separate, you ought to be able to kill PPC_PMAC from them
[05:33] <Kamion> lamont: that won't be writable though?
[05:33] <lamont> Kamion: you'll notice some tagging stuff
[05:33] <Kamion> mjg59: we only build one (pair of) kernels for power3, not separate Mac kernels
[05:33] <lamont> Kamion: it is for you if you make it an sftp archive
[05:33] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, what's with the commas in the tags?
[05:34] <lamont> can't use periods
[05:34] <mjg59> Kamion: What kernels get installed on Macs?
[05:34] <Kamion> mjg59: depends on the mac; linux-image-{powerpc,power4}{,-smp}
[05:35] <lamont> Kamion: and you'll notice that it's in the branch name, not the version (since _that_ doesn't allow anything but numbers and periods)
[05:35] <mjg59> But what I actually meant is that the code in question is useless on power3 - the processors those calls are fiddling with aren't power3
[05:35] <mjg59> Kamion: Right, I'd expect you to be able to drop PPC_PMAC from them
[05:35] <Kamion> in other words, drop PPC_PMAC from power3 and power3-smp
[05:35] <elmo_> mjg59: er?
[05:36] <elmo_> what's PPC_PMAC do?  'cos my laptop's using (or would be if I used distro kernels) power3
[05:36] <Kamion> meh what? how?
[05:36] <elmo_> err
[05:36] <Kamion> power3 is like a different processor from your laptop
[05:36] <Kamion> it's IBM big iron
[05:37] <elmo_> yeah, sorry, I'm getting confused
[05:37] <elmo_> this is why I HATE subarches
[05:37] <Kamion> you and me both
[05:37] <mjg59> Kamion: Any idea why it was switched on?
[05:37] <Kamion> mjg59: nope
[05:37] <elmo_> my laptop which is a 'g4' -> powerpc, our powermac G5 -> 'power4'.  wtf?
[05:37] <mjg59> elmo_: G5 is PPC64, which is power4
[05:37] <Kamion> mjg59: it doesn't appear to be that way in Debian
[05:38] <mjg59> Kamion: Kill with extreme prejudice, then
[05:38] <Kamion> which rather worries me, I wonder where we got those configs
[05:38] <elmo_> mjg59: yeah, I know, it's just hellishly unintuitive
[05:38] <mjg59> Kamion: Kernel default config has PPC_PMAC switched on
[05:38] <Kamion> lamont: so can I check in the changes one by one rather than in a big batch? :)
[05:39] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah, but I thought we'd have got our config by starting with Debian's config
[05:39] <Kamion> since that's what we did with the udebs
[05:39] <lamont> Kamion: however you want, but would be nice to have tags for -21 and -22
[05:39] <ogra> wasabi ?
[05:40] <Kamion> lamont: right, will do
[05:41] <pitti> Kamion (cc:lamont) are you fine with a manual cyrus-sasl build?
[05:41] <Kamion> lamont: I'll commit the config change discussed above too, if that's ok
[05:41] <Kamion> pitti: whatever lamont's ok with ... (dangerous though that statement is)
[05:41] <pitti> okay :-)
[05:45] <lamont> Kamion: manual build will require resurecting a heimdal set from the morgue somewhere, manually installing it on the buildds, and thereby preserving the FTBFS issue....  elmo will kill me.
[05:45] <lamont> so I'm gonna require a very clear edict before I'll accept that path...
[05:45] <elmo_> don't drag me into this horrow show
[05:46] <elmo_> it's warty - we can't fix it right now, just fix it however you need to; the most important thing is to make damn sure we don't have any packages like this in hoary
[05:47] <elmo_> (which is blocked on me, I know - go me)
[05:49] <tseng> elmo_: hey, did gtk-sharp-unstable ever get into NEW?
=== dgp [~danilo@adsl-ull-245-166.46-151.net24.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:49] <tseng> elmo_: or still having mysterious problems
[05:50] <elmo_> tseng: nah, it's in NEW, I'll have a look at in a bit
[05:50] <tseng> elmo_: ah great. thanks
[05:50] <elmo_> tseng: tho, why are we doing the whole '-unstable' thing instead of just uploading the newer version as gtk-sharp?  is it that unstable?
[05:50] <tseng> elmo_: they are paralel installable. most apps use gtk-sharp 1.0.x
[05:50] <tseng> this is 1.9.x
[05:51] <tseng> also, miguel asked it have something to the effect of -unstable, as the api isnt frozen
[05:51] <elmo_> ok
[05:51] <tseng> so thats how the debian maintainer packaged it..
[05:51] <tseng> its sort of unclear how/when it will go into experimental
[05:52] <tseng> only muine uses atm, and we want a recent version (which actually builds)
[05:52] <Kamion> pitti: can this wait 'til mdz gets back? I don't really feel comfortable saying "yes, do this evil thing"
[05:53] <pitti> Kamion: it's a security update, but since nothing really uses this old crap, I'm fine with waiting
[05:53] <elmo_> isn't that slac^W^Wour fearless distro-leader due back todayish anyways?
[05:53] <pitti> dunno, he spoke about "a few days" in his holiday reminder...
[05:55] <tseng> elmo_: will the same package going into sid with a slightly different name cause you major pain in the future? or correctable
[05:55] <tseng> elmo_: this is the name from the debian maintainer, but I havent gotten a strong commitment that that will be the name in sid
[05:57] <Kamion> IIRC it was indeed today, but I might be a day or two out
[05:57] <Kamion> tseng: try not to clash with their version numbers ...
[05:57] <Kamion> tseng: different .orig.tar.gz files with the same filename will cause pain, too
[05:58] <Mithrandir> ubuntu in the .orig.tar.gz file name?
=== Mithrandir hides
=== Amaranth [Amaranth@amaranth.user]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:01] <Kamion> lamont: could you chmod g+w the revision lock in that archive?
[06:01] <Kamion> lamont: (might want umask 002 in your .bashrc ...)
[06:02] <lamont> GAH!
[06:02] <elmo_> cdrecord: A write error occured.
[06:02] <elmo_> cdrecord: Please properly read the error message above.
=== elmo_ <heart> joerg
[06:02] <aj> Mithrandir: foo_1.0+ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz is pretty plausible, especially if there isn't an official tarball
[06:02] <thom> HAHA
[06:03] <Mithrandir> elmo_: use DVDs and growisofs. :)
[06:03] <thom> (at the cdrecord error)
[06:03] <Mithrandir> aj: true enough.  Still ugly.
[06:03] <Kamion> or 1.0~ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz, better
[06:03] <lamont> Kamion: fixed
[06:04] <Kamion> (since we'd want a Debian version to win)
[06:04] <elmo_> err, guys, we're talking about the package name not version?
[06:04] <elmo_> AIUI
[06:04] <elmo_> or tseng was originally
[06:04] <Kamion> oh, slightly different name, not the same name; misread
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-183.uudial.uunet.co.za]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
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[06:07] <shaya> something I've noticed recently is that new windows pop up in the background
[06:07] <elmo_> so. hum.  something greatly upsets CD burning on my laptop and I'm beginning to think it's xmms - is that even plausible?
[06:07] <shaya> is this the way its supposed to be?
[06:07] <shaya> i.e. if I click on an email link in firefox, evolution compose email window is obscured
[06:09] <tseng> elmo_: yes, different names. he alluded to possibly making gtk-sharp2-unstable vs gtk-sharp-unstable
[06:09] <shaya> also, any ubuntu ppc people here?
[06:09] <elmo_> tseng: that's fine we can merge later without problems
[06:09] <pitti> shaya: right now I'm typing at a ibook g4
[06:09] <tseng> elmo_: wonderful, all I wondered
[06:09] <tseng> hm, hi shaya 
[06:09] <shaya> anyone know if ppc64 stuff is supported?
[06:09] <shaya> i.e. J20 (970FX) blades
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:10] <shaya> js20 that is
[06:10] <shaya> IBM donated a 14 unit blade center to us and we'd like to get a debian type distro on it, plain debian doesn't seem to do it
[06:10] <tseng> seb128: hey did you upload f-spot to sid? I got a reject message, dist was set to hoary
[06:11] <seb128> tseng: grumpf, the debian maintainer did
[06:11] <seb128> I've pointed the hoary packages
[06:11] <seb128> he has changed the version but not the distro
[06:12] <pitti> bbl
[06:12] <tseng> hm alright. the mail went to him as well so I imagine he'll fix
[06:13] <shaya> does f-spot actually work for anyone?
[06:13] <shaya> and not crash w/ a gnomevfs error?
[06:13] <tseng> sure does.
[06:13] <shaya> Unhandled Exception: System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Gnome.Vfs.Vfs ---> System.DllNotFoundException: gnomevfs-2
[06:13] <tseng> yep you mailed me.
[06:13] <shaya> oh
[06:14] <shaya> you're hale
[06:14] <tseng> brandon, yes
[06:14] <shaya> want to log into my laptop now and try it for yourself?
[06:14] <shaya> yes, but brandon might get you confused w/ overfiend
[06:14] <shaya> "brandon" that is
[06:15] <tseng> overfiend is branden
[06:15] <tseng> heh.
[06:15] <Mithrandir> he uses a bit more caps too
[06:15] <shaya> eh, close enough.  I have letters from ACM addressed to Ms. Shaya Potter. that's a bit more off
[06:15] <tseng> ouch
[06:15] <shaya> at least last time I looked down
[06:16] <tseng> :D
[06:16] <shaya> tseng: so do you want to check out my laptop?
[06:16] <tseng> I could, but my mono debugging skills are pretty limited
[06:16] <lamont> pitti/Kamion: so the decision is to stall waiting for mdz to surface, and then probably commit unspeakable evil in the name of preserving the status quo?
[06:16] <shaya> just can see if there's anything abnormal
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[06:17] <tseng> shaya: if you checked out for proper installs of gnome-vfs2 and libgnome-cil I'm not sure what else to look at. we can talk to lewing
[06:17] <tseng> and co
[06:18] <tseng> shaya: care to see if anyone is home on #f-spot, irc.gnome.org ?
[06:18] <tseng> I've just joined
[06:18] <shaya> lewing is in #hula
[06:18] <tseng> lewing is in #f-spot as well..
[06:19] <shaya> in #hula's he's been idle 14 hours
[06:19] <tseng> unless you both really want to divert the topic of #hula, which is damn busy last I checked
[06:19] <shaya> hmm, try irc.gnome
[06:19] <shaya> msg him
[06:19] <tseng> 7hrs
[06:19] <shaya> says 14 for me
[06:19] <Kamion> lamont: right, if that's possible
[06:19] <lamont> ok
[06:20] <lamont> I'll root around in the morgue and find the right evilness
[06:20] <shaya> figured it out
[06:20] <shaya> [pid 11824]  open("/usr/lib/gnomevfs-2.so", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[06:20] <tseng> yeah
[06:20] <tseng> htf are you missing that?
[06:21] <shaya> same problem
[06:21] <tseng> um
[06:21] <tseng> one second
[06:21] <Amaranth> wait, how the hell could you be missing gnomevfs and have a working system?
[06:21] <shaya> it's not missing
[06:21] <tseng> Amaranth: thats the wrong path
[06:21] <shaya> .so.0 is included
[06:21] <Amaranth> ah
[06:22] <shaya> same problem as w/ the gphoto
[06:22] <shaya> and make the link and f-spot works
[06:22] <Amaranth> well, you could symlink for now and report the problem to the maintainers
[06:22] <Amaranth> yeah
[06:22] <shaya> yea, strace
[06:23] <shaya> or that should have been a yay strace
[06:23] <tseng>  /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 is in libgnomevfs2-0
[06:23] <shaya> yes
[06:23] <shaya> tseng: so how did you get the .so link
[06:23] <shaya> :)
[06:23] <Kamion> oh, you're using the -dev .so symlink
[06:23] <shaya> made it yourself?
[06:23] <Kamion> shaya: it's in libgnomevfs2-dev or whatever
[06:23] <tseng> no, its in -dev
[06:23] <tseng> so I will make you a fix
[06:24] <shaya> k
[06:24] <shaya> is this a bug in gnomevfs packaging or mono?
[06:24] <tseng> hm I wonder if I can hit that in muine also
[06:24] <shaya> as seems to be something we hit a lot
[06:24] <tseng> shaya: I am thinking libgnome-cil (gtk-sharp)
[06:25] <shaya> k
[06:25] <shaya> anyways
[06:25] <tseng> yeah muine isnt affected
[06:25] <Kamion> it's not a bug in gnomevfs
[06:26] <tseng> its a bug in mono packaging
[06:26] <shaya> back to work for me, need to finish this paper http://www2005.org/program-fri.html#T10:30 (as don't want to miss my chance to go to japan for free)
[06:27] <tseng> muine has
[06:27] <tseng>        5   <dllmap dll="libgnomevfs-2-0.dll" target="libgnomevfs-2.so.0"/>
[06:28] <tseng> bingo
[06:28] <tseng> f-spot just needs the same thing
[06:28] <Kamion> lamont: -21 and -22 committed
[06:28] <Kamion> lamont: I'll do the power3 config thing on a separate branch, and you can merge
[06:29] <lamont> thanks
[06:29] <tseng> shaya: im fixing now. cheers
[06:29] <lamont> and thanks for dealing with the power3 config thing.
[06:31] <ajmitch> tseng: you want #6805?
[06:32] <tseng> ajmitch: hm id like to wait and see if they can reproduce with 0.8.2.. sound fair?
[06:32] <ajmitch> ok
[06:32] <tseng> lemme finish this f-spot fix
[06:32] <shaya> this whole dllmap stuff just weirds me out
[06:33] <tseng> whys that?
[06:33] <shaya> just seems hackish, whatever happened to good ole ld
[06:33] <tseng> its C# dude
[06:33] <shaya> yea
[06:33] <tseng> no linker
[06:34] <shaya> mono is the linker
[06:34] <tseng> well it doesnt do ld
[06:34] <ajmitch> shaya: yeah it's annoying, but since the assemblies don't request which version to use, it's sort of needed
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[06:35] <shaya> right, but no reason it shouldn't.  i.e. to the kernel, elf binaries can be viewed as bieng executed by /lib/ld-linux
[06:35] <tseng> shaya: anyway ill have a .deb for you in 2 minutes
[06:35] <shaya> and mono binaries can be viewed as bieng executed by mono
[06:35] <shaya> but ok, I'll take ajmitch's answer
[06:35] <tseng> theres no elf
[06:36] <tseng> its bytecode
[06:36] <shaya> right
[06:36] <shaya> I agree, but it seems like just importing window's DLL hell world into linux
[06:36] <shaya> and have a hack way around it with the dllmap entries
[06:36] <lamont> Kamion: once you have happy ppc stuff, I need to merge in a new tosh acpi from kinnison, it would appear...  so I'll plan on -23 sometime soonish
[06:37] <shaya> lamont: you do ppc?  know anything about my js20s?
[06:37] <Kamion> jbailey: can you look at #1440? there's a comment that it'll be obsolete once #1763 is fixed, but you fixed #1763 and there's still a report of it being broken
[06:37] <Kamion> what is a js20s?
[06:37] <shaya> 970fx based blade
[06:38] <shaya> http://penguinppc.org/ppc64/machines.php
[06:38] <shaya> supposdly "works"
[06:38] <shaya> but no debian based distro seems to work
[06:40] <jbailey> Kamion: Hmm, if loading ide-cd and ide-generic don't do it, there's other problems, but I'll try and figure it out.
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[06:40] <tseng> shaya: http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/f-spot/f-spot_0.0.9-0ubuntu2_i386.deb test this please.
[06:40] <Kamion> jbailey: thanks
[06:41] <Kamion> shaya: hoary doesn't work? warty was missing 970fx bits, but hoary should have most of them
[06:41] <lamont> Shaquile: I just build stuff
[06:41] <Kamion> shaya: however we don't have a ppc64 kernel yet, so ...
[06:42] <Kamion> mjg59: hm, menuconfig only offers one all-in-one "CHRP/PowerMac/PReP" option for machine type
[06:42] <tseng> shaya: huh wtf
[06:43] <T-Bone> hey Kamion, lamont :)
[06:43] <Kamion> hi T-Bone
[06:43] <lamont> T-Bone: howdy
[06:43] <T-Bone> lamont: so you uploads stuff without building it, heh? :^)
=== lamont tries to think of something controversial to say to t-bone, decides that would be mean.
[06:44] <T-Bone> s/ds/d/
[06:44] <T-Bone> dooh
[06:44] <Kamion> admittedly so did I, with -21 :(
[06:44] <lamont> T-Bone: 4/5 built...
[06:44] <T-Bone> Kamion: yeah you were the next target on my slap list :)
[06:44] <lamont> was bedtime dammit
[06:44] <T-Bone> lamont: hehe :)
[06:44] <lamont> but it _booted_
=== Kamion claims "doing emergency hot-fix" mitigation
[06:45] <T-Bone> lamont: and that's supposed to prove anything? :^)
[06:45] <lamont> T-Bone: and btw, the parisc breakout patches went balistic, so I reverted that (but left them in the tree)
[06:45] <Kamion> lamont: my problem now is that the installer's gonna be broken tomorrow
[06:45] <T-Bone> lamont: balistic like how?
[06:45] <T-Bone> Kamion: gaaah :P How so?
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[06:45] <lamont> T-Bone: yeah, that you want to say :%s/2.6.10-3/2.6.10-4/g, not :%s/2.6.10-3-/2.6.10-4-/g
[06:45] <lamont> irq major borkage
[06:45] <Kamion> T-Bone: er, ABI breakage, it goes with the territory unless you get the whole thing over with in one day
[06:45] <lamont> T-Bone: does not play well with others kind of issues
[06:46] <Kamion> lamont: it looked more like :%s/-2.6.10-3/2.6.10-4/g or something like that
[06:46] <lamont> Kamion: whip cracking time?
[06:46] <T-Bone> lamont: dude, all i did was splitting existing patches. I haven't (and couldn't) tested them
[06:46] <lamont> T-Bone: understood
[06:46] <lamont> I just didn't want to hold up the upload for hppa, because that would have been, well, bad.
[06:46] <Kamion> lamont: just trying to get something I can run 'make config' on right now
[06:47] <T-Bone> lamont: at any rate this should make our lives easier when backporting stuff from kyle
[06:47] <T-Bone> lamont: sure
[06:47] <lamont> T-Bone: yeah - I'll make some time to play with the patches some more in my off time later this week, assuming that anysuch time exists.
[06:47] <T-Bone> hehe
[06:48] <T-Bone> lamont: remember that a good part of that non-existing time should be devoted to oo.o ;)
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=== T-Bone ducks!
[06:48] <lamont> meanwhile, arguing with d-i's archive-arrangement assumptions has given me the fun opportunity of adjusting my evil-archive scripts more, and will yet again.
[06:48] <tseng> shaya: heh sorry about that. had to look at the code to see what it was actually trying to load
[06:49] <T-Bone> lamont: heh :)
[06:49] <lamont> because this is wrong: pool/main/debian-installer/a/anna/anna_1.06ubuntu4_hppa.udeb
[06:50] <tseng> shaya: also chokes on libgnomeui at least
[06:50] <Kamion> lamont: follow the Filename: in Packages ...
[06:52] <jbailey> Kamion: Do I understand this right that the Hoary livecd works, but not the installer?
[06:53] <elmo_> what's default debconf in warty?
[06:53] <Kamion> jbailey: no, I think those comments are talking about the Warty live CD
[06:53] <Kamion> elmo_: default debconf what?
[06:53] <elmo_> priority, sorry
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[06:54] <Kamion> elmo_: in warty, critical in the installer and high in the installed system
[06:54] <elmo_> cool, tnx
[06:54] <Kamion> in hoary, the installer shifted back to high
[06:55] <T-Bone> Kamion: if i get it right, today's ISO should have the mptscsih fix, right?
[06:55] <Kamion> T-Bone: no, because of kernel build problems
=== mvo is away for ~2h
=== thom wonders idly if firefox will build
[06:56] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - the issue is that this is a fresh import, and it was because I was a little too complete in forcing main/debian-installer to be a component
[06:56] <lamont> fixed now, but it's an archive event for my poor archive.
[06:56] <T-Bone> Kamion: gah. something generic or something I have to fix?
[06:56] <T-Bone> (and don't say the latter just to get me mad :)
[06:56] <lamont> which means: 1) move *_hppa.deb and *_hppa.changes back into the upload queue, 2) remove binary-hppa/Packages.gz; and 3) re-import
[06:58] <Kamion> T-Bone: no. see the above conversation?
[06:58] <Kamion> T-Bone: you knew it didn't build, since you were complaining at lamont about it, surely?
=== T-Bone needs to catch up with scrollback quickly
[06:58] <Kamion> T-Bone: I've spent a good part of today on it ...
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[06:59] <T-Bone> Kamion: actually i didn't know it doesn't build. I blamed lamont for uploading a package with missing data (which he would have noticed if he'd built the package). I didn't know the problem was "bigger"
[06:59] <tritium> With the changes to cupsys browsing, shouldn't dpkg-reconfigure ask whether or not to enable it?
[06:59] <lamont> T-Bone: ppc is ftbfs
[06:59] <Kamion> T-Bone: ah, I see :) what was the missing data?
[06:59] <lamont> --> -23 today sometime
[06:59] <lamont> Kamion: metadata
[07:00] <T-Bone> lamont: ah it's the ppc fixes from benh?
[07:00] <lamont> specifically, the lingering instances of 2.6.10-3
[07:00] <lamont> T-Bone: yes.
[07:00] <Kamion> T-Bone: right - it's just on power3
[07:00] <T-Bone> ok now i've sync'd both halves of my brain ;)
[07:00] <lamont> which are solved with a config change
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=== lamont gets dragged into town by his wife - back in a bit
[07:00] <T-Bone> ok, so it's not such a big deal, is it?
[07:01] <Kamion> lamont: hm, well
[07:01] <T-Bone> heh, see ya
[07:01] <lamont> Kamion: well, in theory anyway...
[07:01] <Kamion> lamont: you can't turn off CONFIG_PPC_PMAC just by running 'make config'
[07:01] <Kamion> it doesn't let you do that individually
[07:01] <Kamion> which makes me a bit leery of doing that
[07:01] <lamont> ah. ouch.
[07:02] <Kamion> CONFIG_PPC_MULTIPLATFORM is one piece, you see ...
=== lamont begins to chant his "Kamion knows best" mantra, while disappearing for about 120minutes or so
[07:02] <Kamion> not about the kernel I don't :)
[07:02] <lamont> anything more before I flee for a bit?
[07:02] <Kamion> I mailed benh about it, but no reply yet
[07:02] <dholbach> i'm out running *wave*
[07:02] <T-Bone> Kamion: grant me 1h and I'll have a look
[07:02] <T-Bone> have to go out now
[07:02] <Kamion> T-Bone: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/linux-source-2.6.10/2.6.10-22/linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-22_20050222-1238-powerpc-failed
[07:03] <T-Bone> copy/pasted. Will look when I get back
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[07:04] <tseng> shaya: here?
[07:13] <Kamion> lamont: I think I might just whack #ifndef CONFIG_POWER3 around that for now
[07:14] <shaya> yes
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[07:16] <shaya> tseng: back
[07:16] <shaya> wsa downstairs
[07:17] <shaya> f-spot seems to work now
[07:17] <tseng> with my new deb?
[07:17] <shaya> yes
[07:17] <tseng> wonderful
[07:17] <shaya> and with my gnomevfs.so symlink removed
[07:18] <tseng> heh, bye..
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[07:20] <tseng> shaya: can you reply to all and let ondrej know as well that the new package works as expected
[07:20] <tseng> shaya: thanks alot for playing along.
=== tseng sighs
[07:28] <tseng> ajmitch: commented #6805, thanks for pointing
[07:30] <Mitario> hi everyone
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[07:49] <seb128> elmo_: gnome-mag (from unstable) and gazpacho (from incoming) syncs please
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[07:53] <trukulo> who is in charge of suspend work on laptops?
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[07:54] <seb128> trukulo: what part ?
[07:54] <trukulo> er... acpi suspend, hibernate, sleep, you know
[07:55] <seb128> yeah, I know, but what part ?
[07:55] <mx|gone> jbailey: ping
[07:55] <seb128> backend ?
[07:55] <seb128> UI ?
[07:55] <trukulo> support on concrete models
[07:55] <seb128> mjg59/thom 
[07:55] <trukulo> thanks seb
[07:56] <seb128> np
[07:56] <trukulo> i'll ask them if they want me to try scripts on my compaq laptop, it seems that compaq is not specially well supported
=== enrico points the finger at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/quickguide/
[07:56] <enrico> It's almost finished, and it ROCKS
[07:56] <enrico> Almost finished, as in: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/status/qg-report.html
[07:57] <tseng> enrico: will the first be avilable in yelp?
[07:57] <elmo_> Kamion: ?
[07:57] <mako> enrico: taht's fantastic
[07:58] <Kamion> elmo_: ?
[07:58] <enrico> tseng: yes.  If you checkout DocteamRepository, you can build a .deb out of it
=== seb128 needs to fix yelp
[07:58] <enrico> tseng: the OMF files have still to be written, though
[07:58] <trukulo> mjg59, ping
=== Kamion screams at the fucking stupid linux-source-* build system
[07:58] <Kamion> waste of time
[07:58] <elmo_> Kamion: I've got two 80Gb disks, I get offered Erase a, Erase b, Use largest free, and Manual.  I select the third and get told "failed, probably not enough space"?
[07:58] <zul> Kamion: hmmm?
[07:59] <Kamion> elmo_: do you actually have free (i.e. unpartitioned) space on those disks?
[07:59] <Kamion> zul: the stupid "patch -1, unpatch -1, patch -2, unpatch -2, patch -3, ..." ritual it goes through before getting out of bed
[07:59] <zul> Kamion: heh welcome my world :)
[08:00] <Kamion> I want to put a big "I DON'T CARE" label on that repeated patching
[08:00] <elmo_> Kamion: no - but couldn't it see that itself and not offer me an option that's doomed to fail? :)
[08:00] <Kamion> elmo_: hm, yeah, guess so, would have to think of how; file a bug please?
[08:00] <elmo_> yeah
[08:00] <Kamion> elmo_: package partman-auto
[08:02] <elmo_> Kamion: also does "large contiguous free space" count spanning across disk? :)
[08:03] <elmo_> ah, hmm, this is a mac so #1 is sacrosant isn't it.. meh
[08:03] <jbailey> mx|gone: Here.
[08:03] <jbailey> trukulo: suspend to ram is working fine on my Compaq Armada E500
[08:04] <jbailey> trukulo: This might be better done on #ubuntu, though.
[08:05] <Kamion> elmo_: it would if we did auto-LVM ...
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[08:13] <trukulo> jbailey, i know, i know, i'm only offering as a tester if they want, i don't ask for direct support here
[08:13] <jbailey> trukulo: Ah, makes sense.
[08:14] <trukulo> :)
[08:20] <elmo_> Kamion: dude.  gb.archive.ubuntu.com - you rock.
[08:22] <Kamion> elmo_: just worked? cool.
[08:25] <elmo_> en_AU.. pfft
[08:25] <daniels> elmo_: don't be hatin'
[08:26] <elmo_> en_ZA? WTF is that.. "Would you like to continue, hey? [Y/n] "
[08:26] <helix> heh
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[08:27] <elmo_> remind me why we register documentation in the foreground?
[08:28] <jbailey> Kamion: I found a system that matches this one more or less:
[08:29] <jbailey> Kamion: Apparently the ata_piix driver doesn't support proc-fs, I may have to just punt this bug to kernel folks.  I'll try a bit more, though.
[08:31] <elmo_> neat. the apple (paper) docs seem to come in either German or Japanese 
[08:32] <pitti> elmo_: if you need some help with the former... :-)
[08:33] <Kamion> elmo_: because the moment after you finish the installation is the one time when it's most likely that the user will want to use the machine rather than having it gummed up by background jobs?
[08:33] <zul> jbailey: once you have finished looking at it open up a bug so we can keep track of it
[08:34] <jbailey> zul: Ubuntu #1440
[08:35] <elmo_> pitti: tis okay, even with non-parseable docs I can see there's no spare harddrive, but I suppose that wasn't a realistic hope anyway ;)
[08:35] <zul> jbailey: great thanks
[08:35] <elmo_> Kamion: yeah, I guess
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[08:39] <dholbach> re
[08:44] <zul> jbailey: is that on a recent cd?
[08:44] <jbailey> zul: Running Hoary system, 2.6.10-3-686
[08:44] <zul> ah...k
[08:45] <jbailey> zul: It looks like ata_piix just isn't picking up the IDE CD Drives, but is taking over the ports, so that ide-generic can't do it either.
[08:45] <zul> grrr
[08:45] <elmo_> argh.  does software raid not work for partman on ppc either?
[08:46] <jbailey> zul: I tried loading sg by hand, but it didn't do it, and /proc/scsi/ata_piix/0 tells me "The driver does not yet support the proc-fs"
[08:46] <jbailey> zul: So even if it were appearing, there's nothing my hotplug script could do to pull it out of there anyway.  I think I'm about at the point where I'm out of options.  I'l googling a touch, though.  I have trouble imagining that noone else has come across this.
[08:47] <Kamion> elmo_: no, needs newer parted
[08:47] <Kamion> I might backport that actually
[08:47] <zul> jbailey: have you tried 2.6.11 ?
[08:48] <jbailey> zul: No.  This is a server in a datacentre 3 timezones free here.  The 2.6.11 in the archive stayed running for about 2 minutes on my home machine before oops'ing so I'm a little reluctant to try it.
[08:49] <jbailey> s/free/from/
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[08:49] <zul> ah i c..ok well ill have a look at it tonight
[08:49] <jbailey> zul: Thanks.  I'll add myself to the bug cc: list.
[08:50] <elmo_> Kamion: that'd rock
[08:51] <elmo_> I can even test it; as I'll have to reinstall this machine when it gets it's third disk back anyways
[08:51] <Kamion> elmo_: (I don't know if it needs *only* newer parted; but that's a necessary condition at least ...)
[08:51] <Kamion> elmo_: ok, will queue that up after this kernel crap
[08:51] <trukulo> 2.6.11 oops on my machine too after 2 minutes of use (several times)
[08:52] <Kamion> y'know, if I were intelligent, I'd build this on davis
[08:52] <elmo_> uh, you'd have difficulty
[08:52] <Kamion> ... oh, davis is down. poo.
[08:52] <elmo_> I'm using it's gfx card to install royal
[08:52] <Kamion> haha
[08:52] <elmo_> davis won't boot without it :(
[08:52] <elmo_> uh, wtf
[08:52] <elmo_> stage 2 is asking for the CDROM
[08:52] <Kamion> GAR. does the kernel build system EVER WORK AT ALL?
[08:52] <Kamion> The changelog says we are creating 2.6.10, but I thought the version is 2.6.10-4-power3-smp
[08:53] <Kamion> oh, maybe I need Ubuntu kernel-package
[08:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: by accident, on Thursdays?
[08:55] <Kamion> ah, that did it
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[08:57] <jbailey> zul: When is tonight for you?  I can try to make sure I'm around if you need information from a running system.
[08:58] <T-Bone> Kamion: just got back, any update on the ppc kernel update
[08:58] <T-Bone> ?
[08:58] <Kamion> still building but at least it's got past the earlier failure
[08:58] <T-Bone> ok
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[09:00] <zul> jbailey: i should be back on irc around 7ish tonight
[09:00] <jbailey> zul: 'kay.  I'll try to make sure i'm back on around then.
[09:01] <zul> k cool
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[09:11] <Kamion> lamont: please pull colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/kernel-debian--powerpc-config--2.6.10--patch-1, and add powerpc-fix-no-altivec to the 00list for the new version
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[09:12] <T-Gone> bbiab (Dinner)
[09:12] <Kamion> T-Gone: the patch I just pointed lamont at should fix the powerpc issue
[09:15] <Kamion> lamont: that's http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005, by the way
[09:16] <Kamion> ah, bugger, still no go
[09:16] <Kamion> arch/ppc/platforms/built-in.o(.text+0x1488): In function `flush_disable_caches':
[09:16] <Kamion> : undefined reference to `__flush_disable_L1'
[09:16] <Mithrandir> does opening http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:H8-Vvmd6ByEJ:www.geocrawler.com/mail/msg_raw.php3%3Fmsg_id%3D8686678+Xlibs+cookie+MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE&hl=no&client=firefox open up the print dialog for anybody else?
[09:16] <Mithrandir> (firefox, i386)
[09:17] <ogra> amd64 .... the dialog opens here
[09:18] <HiddenWolf> I've never been able to make xchat and firefox to play nice on i386
[09:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: weird; I'll file a bug.
[09:18] <Mithrandir> I'm sure thom will love me.
[09:18] <ogra> yup
[09:18] <LBM> i get a print dialog (i386)
[09:18] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: it opens for me too.
[09:19] <Mithrandir> ok, I think we can call the verified. :)
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[09:35] <T-Bone> Kamion: benh is on #d-kernel.
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[10:07] <Kamion> lamont,T-Bone: ok, you probably want the rest of the colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/kernel-debian--powerpc-config--2.6.10 branch too (patch-2 and patch-3), and I renamed the patch from powerpc-fix-no-altivec to powerpc-fix-pmac-cache
[10:08] <Kamion> lamont,T-Bone: I haven't done full builds, but I've successfully done the monolithic kernel part of the build with power3-smp, power4, and powerpc
[10:08] <T-Bone> sounds good
[10:08] <Kamion> I don't think it should affect modules
[10:09] <elmo_> Kamion: davis is back, fwiw ;)
[10:09] <T-Bone> Kamion: you'll want to have lamont get that in our archive. I don't have write access to it (sigh)
[10:09] <Kamion> elmo_: bit late, slacker :P
[10:09] <Kamion> T-Bone: aye, we really need a better solution for shared archives
[10:10] <T-Bone> Kamion: indeed. It's actually a bit pointless for us to have that archive, for only you or lamont can commit there
=== T-Bone is still going through the pain of learning how to use arch anyway
[10:10] <Kamion> T-Bone: well, no, it allows lamont to integrate from a branch you create
[10:10] <Kamion> T-Bone: you can still make commits and their history will be preserved
[10:10] <T-Bone> fair enough
[10:11] <T-Bone> i really have to educate myself about that monster. It's just that looks so ugly to me :-}
[10:11] <Kamion> in the same way as Linus' kernel archive isn't pointless, despite the fact that only he can commit to it :)
[10:11] <T-Bone> yep
[10:11] <Kamion> (leaving aside political stuff about BK ...)
[10:11] <T-Bone> shhh ;)
[10:12] <Kamion> still, an archive labelled kernel-team should be writable by the whole team, really
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[10:13] <T-Bone> Kamion: actually it should be writeable by team leader(s). Since I don't know yet how the whole arch stuff work, i don't know what are the implications of more people being able to write
[10:13] <T-Bone> Kamion: as we've stated it, leader(s) has(ve) to filter what goes in the final package
[10:13] <T-Bone> and that archive is intended to reflect what will go there
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[10:14] <Kamion> oh, ok
[10:14] <Mithrandir> pqm, possibly, then
[10:15] <Kamion> sorry I sidestepped that with my uploads earlier today then; I was acting in my capacity as installer team leader to fix an issue that was blocking me, if you want to look at it that way
[10:15] <Kamion> :)
[10:15] <Kamion> (or if you want me to be pompous ...)
[10:15] <elmo_> talking of slacking and installer team leads - where's that graphical installer???
[10:15] <elmo_> \o/
[10:15] <T-Bone> Kamion: hehe :)
[10:15] <Mithrandir> elmo_: you want a graphical installer you can use over serial?
[10:15] <Kamion> yeah, dude, still waiting for that jigdo snapshot archive stuff
[10:15] <T-Bone> Kamion: actually i think it would be a good thing that you have write access to it
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[10:16] <T-Bone> Kamion: and that you *use* that right :)
[10:16] <Kamion> I sincerely hope not to have to very often, kernel stuff has a bad habit of eating whole days at a time
[10:16] <T-Bone> elmo_: heh. Nice test of the livecd indeed. I must confess I didn't think of trying it with a VT100 :)
[10:17] <T-Bone> Kamion: heh. Welcome to our world :)
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=== Kamion has a horrible thought about language packs
[10:18] <Kamion> pitti: I bet you're stripping base-config, aren't you?
[10:18] <pitti> Kamion: I should
[10:18] <Kamion> pitti: could you, er, not?
[10:18] <pitti> Kamion: hm, right, at that time the langpack is not available...
[10:18] <Kamion> pitti: base-config is the thing responsible for installing language packs
[10:19] <Kamion> right, exactly
[10:19] <pitti> Kamion: sorry, didn't think about that
[10:19] <Kamion> no problem, nor did I until just now
[10:19] <Kamion> running a test at the moment
[10:19] <pitti> Kamion: are there any other packages which must not be stripped?
[10:19] <Kamion> pitti: passwd's debconf templates shouldn't be stripped
[10:19] <Kamion> (source package shadow)
[10:20] <Kamion> because they're used from the first stage
[10:20] <Kamion> that's all I can think of at the moment
[10:20] <pitti> Kamion: do you think this has time until tomorrow? I'm falling asleep atm
[10:20] <Kamion> pitti: oh, no massive urgency, just pre-hoary
[10:20] <pitti> okay, will do tomorrow
[10:20] <Kamion> thanks
[10:20] <pitti> Kamion: today I'm afraid I would mess something up, I feel terrible
[10:20] <Kamion> get some sleep :)
[10:20] <pitti> okay, shadow and base-config
=== Kamion nods
[10:21] <pitti> good night, guys!
[10:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is there an overview of the different states for a Channel in ssh somewhere?
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[10:28] <dholbach> bbl
[10:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: looking
[10:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-secsh-connect-24.txt maybe?
[10:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the states are really internal to the implementation though
[10:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: great, thanks.
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[10:32] <zul> right...ill be back later
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[10:36] <Mitario> jdub, here?
[10:38] <lamont> Kamion: so I want all the changes on your branch?
[10:39] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, plus adding powerpc-fix-pmac-cache to 00list-23
[10:39] <Kamion> lamont: BTW I've uploaded debian-installer with 2.6.10-4, it'll probably need a dep-wait on powerpc
[10:40] <Kamion> hm, in fact on all architectures, I guess it's in NEW
[10:40] <lamont> grumble.
[10:41] <lamont> I thought elmo was going to preseed NEW for an abi rev or 3
[10:42] <Kamion> speaking of seeds, nobody's updated them for 2.6.10-4
[10:42] <Kamion> I'll do that now
[10:47] <lamont> oops.  guess we need to add that to the new ABI checklist, eh?
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[10:48] <lamont> does powerpc-fix-pmac-cache replace anything, or it's just a new one on top of the rest?
[10:48] <Kamion> the latter
[10:48] <lamont> cool
[10:48] <Kamion> specifically it must be on top of stolen-from-head_ppc-sleep
[10:48] <jdub> Mitario: pong
[10:48] <lamont> right - all the stolen-from-head patches come first, so that's cool
[10:49] <Kamion> stolen-from-head_ppc_sleep, rather
[10:49] <Mitario> jdub, about my pgo feed :)
[10:49] <Mitario> jdub, sorry to bother you again, but i tought maybe you forgot :)
[10:50] <Kamion> lamont: there's also linux-meta; though once we upload that, everyone will start complaining about stuff being uninstallable ...
[10:50] <lamont> right - that's last. :-)
=== lamont debates the pros and cons of just uploading with {arch} and .arch-ids/* intact
[10:50] <Mithrandir> lamont: debuild -i is too much work?
[10:51] <lamont> Mithrandir: huh?
[10:51] <Kamion> $ grep arch ~/.devscripts
[10:51] <Kamion> DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-i'(?:^|/).*~$|(?:^|/)\..*\.swp|DEADJOE|(?:/CVS|/RCS|/\.svn|/\.deps|\{arch\}|\.arch-ids|\.arch-inventory)(?:$|/)' -ICVS -I.svn -I\{arch\} -I.arch-ids -I.arch-inventory -uc -us"
[10:51] <lamont> oh - cool
[10:51] <lamont> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S will hit that then?
[10:52] <lamont> most awesome, fellow dudes!
[10:52] <Kamion> no, but debuild -S would
[10:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you know you can just use -i and dpkg-buildpackage will just add all that magic?
[10:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, but not in woody; my .devscripts is shared
[10:52] <lamont> hrm.. never used debuild...
[10:52] <lamont> in hoary it would?
[10:52] <Kamion> definitely, warty too
[10:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir's right that in warty/hoary you should probably just drop the gunk between -i and -ICVS
[10:53] <Mithrandir> yeah
[10:54] <lamont> anything besides Kamion's fixes that we need in -23?
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[10:55] <lamont> Kamion: hrm.. -23 can't be an abi event relative to -22, since -22 didn't build on the one architecture that changed.  Right?
[10:55] <Kamion> lamont: right
[10:55] <Kamion> lamont: would it be an ABI event otherwise?
[10:56] <Kamion> (I have a hard time seeing how ...)
[10:56] <lamont> Kamion: not sure - but I've gotten paranoid
[10:57] <lamont> so debuild -S -rfakeroot?
[10:58] <Kamion> debuild does -rfakeroot by default
[10:58] <lamont> ok.
[10:59] <ogra> can anybody explain: Depends: python (<< 3) ?
[11:00] <ogra> this seems to show up in a bunch of python related packages
[11:00] <Kamion> dh_python
[11:00] <ogra> yup
[11:01] <ogra> what does it mean ? i dont think we need to worry about python3 yet
[11:01] <dholbach> Kamion: how can it be tightened, without writing Depends: explicitly?
[11:02] <Kamion> it seems generally sane to me as it is
[11:03] <Kamion> anything with a python module gets a tighter dependency (<< 2.5)
[11:03] <dholbach> but some other {python:Depends}  are expanded to  python (>=2.4), python (<< 2.5) 
[11:03] <Kamion> ordinary programs get (<< 3)
[11:03] <dholbach> ah... hmm
[11:03] <ogra> oh
[11:03] <Kamion> which I think makes sense
[11:08] <dholbach> i'll point metalikop towards this conversation
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[11:08] <ogra> yup
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[11:34] <mxpxpod> jbailey: still there?
[11:36] <elmo__> seb128: ok to override gnome-mag ubuntu mods?
[11:36] <seb128> yep
[11:36] <elmo__> and  I missed gazpacho sorry - I'll get it once it hits a mirror
[11:36] <seb128> no problem
[11:36] <seb128> thanks :)
[11:37] <Kamion> night all
[11:38] <dholbach> bye kamion
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