/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/03/05/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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TreenaksT-00:15:0004:45
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makoKamion: around?04:57
Kamionmako: yeah04:57
makook.. lets find elmo and sabdfl04:57
Kamionoh hell, CC meeting, I'd forgotten04:57
makobad time?04:58
Kamionno, that's ok04:58
Simirathe meeting's now, right?04:58
TheMuso_For some it is sorta. :)04:58
makoin a couple minutes04:58
makoTheMuso_: well, it's *always* a bad time for somebody04:58
makoanybody seen mark today?04:59
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TheMuso_I don't mind. At least I managed to get some sleep beforehand. :)04:59
makoshould i call?04:59
Kamionback in a few minutes, getting food04:59
makook.. if mark's not around when kamion returns, i'll give him a call04:59
elmo_he's in spain and running low on battery04:59
makohmm..04:59
makowell, might be good to take a look over the wiki pages for the new members05:00
elmo_err, his phone that is - not him personally ;)05:00
makoahh, ok :)05:00
makoi will sms05:00
Mithrandirsomebody could just ship him a crate if so. ;P05:00
sivangelmo_: mark is in spain? good for him :)05:01
SimiraI wouldn't mind be there myself right now... *freezing*05:02
=== Mithrandir fetches Simira a blanket
ajmitchmorning05:02
TheMuso_It is a really mild night here in Sydney, quite the opposite.05:02
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ograhmpf05:02
=== ogra looks at the 40cm snow outside
dholbachogra: how cold is it at your place in the mornings? still -8?05:03
Simiraogra: oh, you finally got the 30cm I send you?05:03
=== dredg looks at the no snow outside
ograheh05:03
ogradholbach: yup, about that05:03
Treenakssnow? what's that? :P05:04
dholbach*shudder* :-)05:04
Kamionback05:04
makoalright05:05
makoi have SMSed Mark but don't know if he will show up05:05
makoi think we should get started since there a number of things to cover05:05
makosmurfix: are you around?05:06
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makoalright05:07
makounless there are any problems i think we should start at the top of the list05:07
makoreply-to issue for ubuntu-users05:07
Treenakswhat's the issue, exactly?05:08
makoi'm not completely caught up with on-list traffic but have gotten no negative feedback to ubuntu-users-owner05:08
ograthere was no reaction at all i think05:08
makohttp://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/cc-summary-20050125.html05:08
Treenaksmako: no sudden dip in # of subscribers either?05:09
makoheh, no05:09
makoi mean, no negative reaction is better than before05:09
makowhen we had at least a minor flamewar fortnightly05:09
=== Kamion nods
makoi see no reason to change it from what we have05:10
makoit seems to be either (a) better or (b) the same in the eyes of most users05:11
makoso, barring any flood of negative reactions in the future which could prompt a reconsideration, i'm happy to just make it permenant05:11
makoif that sounds sane to others05:11
Treenakssounds OK05:11
makoelmo_, Kamion: ?05:12
sivang++05:12
TheMuso_Sounds fine. The users would be glad to hear that I am sure.05:12
=== Mithrandir is unhappy with it, from a technical perspective, but I can work around it in my MUA.
ograme too05:12
elmo_mako: ok05:12
makoMithrandir: i'm less than thrilled with it as well.. but i'm happy that i'm not getting followups to me personally that were supposed to be on the list anymoer :)05:13
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makoit's -users only after all05:13
makois there anything else anybody wants to add?05:13
SimiraI think it sound good.05:13
makootherwise, lets move on05:14
Kamionmako: ok05:14
KamionI echo what Mithrandir said, but I've said that before :)05:14
makosmurfix: when you appear you can comment on the loco team leaders05:15
makosmurfix: or it happen happen after the meeting05:15
makoif it's alright, i think we should handle the normal business before we do new members05:16
Treenaksgo ahead?05:16
makoogra: want to go ahead re the new motu?05:16
TheMuso_np.05:16
ograwe have had no second reviewer and since we can do it in the fast process yourselves, i would suggest to approve all of the as membrs now05:17
ograwe can do the MOTU stuff later then, if we got a new second reviewer05:18
Treenaksogra: hm?05:18
makoogra: and on the angeda, you suggested treenaks05:18
ograi'm pretty fresh myself in packaging, so i think its necessary to have someone experienced aside here....05:18
makoTreenaks: so, how do you feel about reviewing other people's debs05:18
makoyeah, that's my concern05:19
ograi know treenaks was DD for a while before ....05:19
makoit will be hard to replace haggai 05:19
Treenaksmako: I'd like that :) I need to pick up packaging again anyway05:19
Treenaksand I've done some Debian maintaining in the past..05:20
ogramako: i really prefer working ooo2 packages ;)05:20
Treenaksogra: I'm not going to take over OOo2 packaging :P05:20
makoTreenaks: right.. but i'm worried about having someone with the ability to really vet packages and maintainers that are coming in on a technical level05:20
ograheh05:20
makoi'm asking if you think you're comfortable in your ability to do so or if you think we should trying to bring in someone else either in addition or in place05:21
Treenaksmako: well, I did pass the Debian P&P05:21
Kamionyou mean tasks and skills?05:22
TreenaksKamion: uh T&S, yes05:22
makoTreenaks: i'm worried more about tasks and skills05:22
makoand i see a difference between being comfortable in ability and skills and being able to successfully convince someone by answering questions :)05:22
Treenaksmako: I can imagine that :)05:22
makowhen i passed NM, i don't think i was a level where i'd want me to have this role alone :)05:22
Treenaksmako: uh, how do I convince people? :)05:22
makoTreenaks: i'm just asking you if You are comfortable05:23
Treenaksmako: I am05:23
elmo_Treenaks: big sticks usually help05:23
ogramako: the reviewing is mostly done in a group, so there are enough eyes to help ....05:23
TreenaksI've packages lots of stuff internally for my previous job05:23
makoalright.. :)05:23
makois there anyone else that is interested in taking on some responsiblities as part of the MOTU group?05:24
mako(packaging ninjas encouraged to apply)05:24
crimsunmako: we peer-review05:24
ogradholbach is our current packaging ninja ;)05:24
TheMuso_I guess so. The accessibility stuff for one.05:24
dholbachogra: thanks for the flowers :-)05:24
makoTheMuso_: this is more for vetting new universe maintainers than for working on any sub-part05:25
TheMuso_Righto.05:25
makocrimsun: ok. that's good05:25
ogradholbach: you do an awesome job.... so its deserved ;)05:25
Mithrandirmako: I guess full maintainers don't have to wave their hands?  I do amd64 stuff in both universe and main already.05:25
makoMithrandir: if you're volunteering to help approve new universe maintainers.. :)05:26
dholbachmako: i already did a heap of package reviews, although i'm not a DD or a packaging black belt ninja :-)05:26
dholbachmako: if you talk about that part of responsibilities :-)05:26
makoMithrandir: nobody is going to say no05:26
Mithrandirmako: I can approve anybody who wants to help out with amd64^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wnew subjects. :)05:26
ograheh05:27
Mithrandirmako: I would need to get more familiar with the process first.05:27
makoKamion, elmo_: any objections to treenaks?05:27
Mithrandirsince I've only followed our members/MOTU/* stuff cursory.05:27
makoKamion, elmo_: as a MOTU approver05:27
KamionTreenaks is fine, I think he's one of the names I suggested when ogra asked me about this05:28
makoperfect05:28
KamionI don't see why Mithrandir couldn't help out significantly too05:29
ograMithrandir: you dont need to know the process to review packages....05:29
makowell barring an objection from elmo, i think you're good to go Treenaks 05:30
elmo_i'm fine with either treenaks and/or mithrandir05:30
ograits just judging the quality.... (a bit of a elmo clone )05:30
Treenaksmako: OK, thanks05:30
Mithrandirogra: if it's just package review, I can help out.05:30
Mithrandirogra: I'm harsh when it comes to quality, though. :)05:30
ogragreat !05:30
ogra:)05:31
ajmitchMithrandir: that's ok :)05:31
makoMithrandir: thanks, that's great05:31
makoalright then05:31
makoin terms of the website review/remake.. jdub is the one who can comment on that05:31
makoalthough i know there should be announcement Real Soon Now05:31
makounless he shows up, i'm not sure what more there is to say05:31
makowhich brings us to.. candidates for membership05:32
makothere are pages linked from the wiki05:32
hno73Well, anyone with wishes or ideas for the website can email henrik@canonical.com05:32
makoi went through and looked them over already but it's worth doing this05:32
makoas we05:32
makohno73: cool, are you handling this now?05:33
hno73mako: Yes, for better or worse :)05:33
hno73I'm sure once I start making drastic changes I'll get some feedback :)05:34
makohno73: i won't comment on which i suspect it is ;) thanks for handling it though!05:34
=== mako has been doing part of that job recently.. certainly for worse ;)
hno73Heh. I've been keeping busy with this site: http://www.theopencd.org/05:35
hno73Not as complex as the Ubuntu one though05:36
makoalright.. so lets start looking at new members05:36
makoscott ritchie05:36
makoogra: isn't scott around a universe maintainer and a member?05:36
ograhe is the guy that repackaged wine....05:36
makoright05:36
makoi don't have a signed CoC but..05:36
ograi havent seen any other packages yet...so only for member for now05:36
=== mako nods
makowell i've seen scotts work and i'm happy approving him05:37
makoelmo_, Kamion: ?05:37
elmo_no objections, don't enough to comment any more than that05:37
makoit would be good to get some confirmation from kamion05:40
KamionScott's the wine guy, I'm happy for universe at least05:40
makowell, this isn't for maintainershp, just for membership05:40
Kamionabsolutely05:40
makoany decision about universe stuff can be made by teh motu team05:40
makoawesome05:40
makolets move on05:40
makoscott ritchie = member05:40
ogranext is wasabi...05:41
makoJerry Haltom/wasabi05:41
ogra(jery haltom)05:41
makoi've seen wasabi around but am not too familiar with his contributions05:41
ograhe has already contributed packages....05:41
makoogra: 05:41
elmo_mako: for what?05:41
jbaileyI've been working with him.05:41
jbailey(wasabi)05:41
makomembership.. just membership05:41
ograecj-bootstrap05:41
elmo_fine by me for membership05:41
makojbailey, ogra: you'll vouch for the contributions?05:42
ograyup05:42
makothen it's fine by me05:42
jbaileymako: Yup.05:42
makoKamion: wasabi? sound good?05:42
makonext is Mattias Eriksson05:42
makonick:snaggen05:43
Kamionwasabi++ for membership05:43
makosmall set of packages online here: http://www.acc.umu.se/~snaggen/ubuntu/05:43
ograhavent looked yet05:43
makowasabi = member05:43
ograbtw, who cares for the Members list 05:43
ogra?05:44
makoi haven't looked at them either but have seen snaggen around05:44
Kamionsnaggen needs to give those packages an Ubuntu-specific version number or denote his changes somehow; they seem to be modified versions of somebody else's packages05:44
makoogra: i have a list of signed coc's.. it's not entirely complete05:44
crimsunogra: aren't we supposed to? ;)05:44
Kamionso it's hard to tell how much he's done05:44
Kamionespecially since it's natively packaged rather than .diff.gz05:44
makoogra: it doesn't have all the canonical people .. and i haven't gotten signed coc's from most of them05:44
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=== mako nods
ogracrimsun: for MOTU i'm happy to do it...but i dont know all the members out there05:44
crimsunogra: gotcha.05:45
ograKamion: i'll contact him05:45
=== mako would personally be most comfortable putting off a decision on snaggen until the next meeting.. to let the contributions develop a little bit
=== haggai sighs at bouncy internet connection today
makosee if we can the packages cleaned up and into the archive05:46
ograyup05:46
makoi don't suspect it will be a problem :)05:46
Kamionogra: (I've left a note on his wiki page)05:46
ograah, great05:46
makoKamion, elmo_: any objection to deferring the decision irt snaggen until next week/meeting?05:47
elmo_mako: no, sounds like a plan to me05:47
makoAaronLake05:47
Kamionyeah, his blog said he installed Ubuntu on 23 Jan, seems kind of soon :)05:47
makometalikop05:47
ograhe helped a lot already...05:47
ograon the pythin transition 05:47
ogras/i/o05:47
makoexcellent05:47
dholbachyes... i uploaded 2 or 3 of his python packages 05:48
Kamionit would be helpful if metalikop would put his contributions on that wiki pgae05:48
Kamionpage05:48
=== mako nods
makothere is very little there05:48
Kamionthe PHP5 thing seems to be there by accident, judging from the history05:48
Kamionhttp://www.metallikop.com/blog/index.php?p=50 has some packages05:48
ograKamion: it is on the python transition page05:48
dholbachthey are mentioned here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePythonTransitionTODO05:49
dholbach(quite at the end)05:49
Kamionbut only links to binaries, and the directory gives 40305:49
makoKamion: what is your feeling.. ask for a more threshed out page? with contributions?05:50
=== Kamion leaves a blog comment
ogralok at imgsizer, cfv, duplicity and gnome-mud in universe05:50
ogralook even05:50
dholbachhe has them hosted at: http://ubuntu.arslinux.com/hoary/uploaded-to-hoary/05:51
crimsunI've helped him with package reviews; he's definitely prime for membership imo05:51
Kamionok, based on recommendations I'm ok with him for membership, but I'd like him to produce a more fleshed out page before maintainership/MOTU05:52
makocrimsun, ogra, dholbach: alright.. i'm willing to take your recommendations05:52
elmo_yeah, me too05:52
makogreat05:52
elmo_(god we're all so easy)05:52
ograheh05:52
dholbachhehe05:52
makoLukeYelavich05:52
makometalikop = member05:52
makoluke is TheMuso_, yes?05:53
ograhavent seen any packages, but he did a reasonable liveCD contribution according to the ML 05:53
TheMuso_mako: That is me, yes.05:53
makoTheMuso_: the wiki pages should include information on the contributions to the community you have already done as well as stuff you are interetsed in working on05:54
=== Kamion digs up the thread
makoi guess some of that is there05:54
makoTheMuso_: want to give us the executive summary?05:54
makoaccessiblity documentation?05:54
makoahh.. i remember this thread05:54
sivangTheMuso_: you can use this page as a template http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SivanGreen :-)05:55
KamionI haven't looked at the accessible live CD yet, but if it does what it says on the tin it's definitely a major contribution05:55
TheMuso_Ok. In the accessibility team area of the wiki, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibilityTeam I have recently created some pages where GNOME apps could be listed as being accessible or otherwise, and also created a page on the Live CD work I am currently doing. This work is also known upstream with the Gnome accessibility devleopers.05:55
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=== mako followed that thread and a few others luke has participated in.. that plus the documentation counts IMHO
=== mako votes in favor
ogramako++05:58
Kamionoh, in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above was a vote in favour05:58
TheMuso_Kamion: The live CD was available on a torrent, however it is currenlty not up atm, and I am not at that box either.05:58
makoelmo_: ?05:58
makoNiallSheridan is up next05:58
ogradredg05:59
makoogra: alright05:59
makoalso done some python stuff, no?05:59
ograhas helped on the python transition05:59
makoright, i caught that earlier.. 05:59
ograhis mbot package is in universe05:59
makoand has a little repo of packages online06:00
ograyup06:00
dholbachi already uploaded mbot for him, although his NEW packages unfortunately always clashed with other peoples plans :-)06:00
makoogra, dholbach: what are you feelings?06:00
ograthubs up from here06:00
dholbachi'd be happy to have him in the MOTU crew :-)06:00
ograthumbs even06:00
makodholbach: well, bring taht one up with ogra and Treenaks  :)06:01
dholbachmako: yes... of course06:01
elmo_mako: I'm okay with it if you two are06:01
crimsunhe's good for membership imo06:01
=== mako feeling is a yes as well...
ograso lets make him a member :)06:01
makoi've seen some of the pythno work06:01
makoKamion, elmo_: almost done06:01
makoKamion, elmo_: feelings about dredg?06:02
=== dredg spots the glowy yellow
Kamionsorry, catching up, one sec06:02
dredgsorry, work kind of got in the way there06:02
Kamionthe wiki pages need to have a more useful <title> than "Ubuntu - wikipage", damnit06:02
dholbachKamion++06:02
ograKamion+++06:02
TheMuso_Agreed. :)06:02
dholbachhehe :-)06:02
Kamiondredg: could we have source packages in http://niall.frogstomp.com/ubuntu/, please? hard to tell much from just .debs06:03
dredgKamion: yes, of course. that's due for a bit of an overhaul06:03
dredgKamion: there are some things in /wip 06:03
dholbachwell and: http://niall.frogstomp.com/python/mbot/06:04
sivangKamion++06:04
=== Mithrandir watches Kamion overflow and become -(2^64-1)
Mithrandir(at least his karma :)06:05
dholbachmbot is in universe06:05
dholbachi reviewed and uploaded it06:06
ograi've seen that one too and it was ok...06:06
KamionI'm ok with dredg06:07
dholbachwoohoo06:07
ografine06:07
makocool06:08
makostill waiting on elmo for the last two06:08
makoon more member candidate:06:08
makoJaniMonoses06:08
ograhas worked on pythoncad06:08
dholbachjani also did some python transition work06:08
elmo_mako: eh? two?  anyway, ok with dredg06:08
ograwhich is uploaded for him in universe06:08
makoelmo_: oh never mind.. missed your last message i guess :)06:08
dholbachi have two packages which just need minor changes to pass06:08
makodredg = member06:09
dholbachwell... two packages of  jani 06:09
makojani: you around?06:09
janihere06:10
makowant to give us the summary of your contributions to ubuntu so far?06:10
janione package uploaded by dholbach as part of pythontransition06:10
janitwo more pending review06:10
Kamionjani: (the text-based bullet point syntax you've used in the rake.1 man page isn't particularly great for man pages, BTW; might want to read groff_man(7) for how to do lists)06:10
janione package unrelated to python, new not in debian yet06:11
janiKamion: it was either what dh_make generated06:11
Kamionwell, I say "lists", really indents is all you get in -man, -mdoc's better at that06:11
Kamionjani: no, I'm referring to the text you pasted in, it needs to be reformatted for use in a man pages06:11
Kamionpages06:11
KamionAARGH page06:11
janior what I copied form man ls(1)06:11
janiOk was my first manpage :)06:12
dholbachi'm very comfortable with him nevertheless06:12
Kamionyou need to look at the source, not the output :)06:12
ograhe was very helpful already in the python transition...06:12
janikamion, yep man ls(1) viewed with vim06:12
Kamionanyway, I'm ok with jani06:12
janiI copied from the osurce06:13
Kamionjani: let's talk about it separately from the meeting06:13
=== mako is alright with jani also
makoelmo_: ?06:14
makoso.. with that out of the way06:14
makosmurfix: still not around?06:14
makois there anyfurther business for the CC?06:14
makogoing once06:15
sivangogra: would you be happy with me as a MOTU? I've only worked on the gnome-system-tools and system-tools-backends pkgs 06:15
Simirais it possible to get the ubuntu-no mailing list open without LoCo up and running?06:15
makosivang: lets handle this after teh meeting06:15
sivangmako: sure06:15
mako(or in another channel)06:15
Simira(I've bugged both smurfix and jdub about it, and did send a mail to Jeff as I was told)06:16
makoSimira: i think the two should go hand-in-hand06:16
Simiramako: ok06:16
makoSimira: but i don't see that as a problem.. many loco's are little more than their list and a wiki06:16
Simiramako: so I'll have to wait for the next cc then?06:16
makoSimira: not at all06:16
makoSimira: smurfix can approve you as a loco leader and just tell us about it06:16
MithrandirSimira: I could just make brukere@ubuntu.no or something :)06:16
makoSimira: it can happen latter today06:17
makoand jdub is the person who can make the lists06:17
Mithrandir(users@ubuntu.no for those who doesn't do Norwegian)06:17
SimiraMithrandir: rather translation or oversettelse would be nice06:17
makoSimira: sound good?06:17
Simiramako: I did both talk to him on IRC and mail him. But that's ok.06:17
Simiramako: good06:17
makoSimira: i think it's a formality at this point. :)06:17
makoany other business?06:17
Simiramako: I suppose :)06:18
makoalright then06:19
makoKamion, elmo_: any objections to the same time in two weeks?06:19
Kamionthis time works well for me, although I've noticed smurfix doesn't tend to be able to make this time which is a bit inconvenient06:20
dholbachjani would still need an ACK of elmo_ i guess?06:21
makodredg: yeah.. we'll get to it06:21
makoKamion: right, but smurfix is also not here to tell us what time he could make :)06:21
makoalright, then.. lets say 1600 on the 8th06:22
makoperhaps a bad time06:23
dredgmako: hmm?06:23
ograoh, yes, we're still missing elmos vote for jani06:23
ogra(or against ?)06:24
makono.. nevermind.. it seems to be a fine time06:24
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makoalright06:24
makothanks everybody for showing up!06:24
makoi'll post a summary06:24
TheMuso_Welcome.06:24
ogramako: jani ?06:24
sivangthanks all, laterz.06:31
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makoogra: what abut jani?06:31
ogramako: member or not ?06:31
ogramako: elmo didnt answer your last question.....and you moved on to loco06:32
makoogra: still waiting for elmo. but probably yes06:35
ograjust thought you missed it :)06:35
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elmo_sorry, had to deal with some people at DC06:47
elmo_ok with jani, if I'm not too late06:47
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metalikophi all06:56
dholbachmetalikop: you've been made a member06:56
metalikop!  Thank you very much.06:56
dholbachyou'll have to read  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html , i fear06:56
janithanks all06:57
janibye06:57
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dholbachbye07:02
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makoelyou're not too late07:44
makometalikop: if you wait for a bit, there will be a summary07:44
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ogramako: http://www.livejournal.com/users/lifeguardasleep/21211.html07:46
makonice! :)07:48
makoogra: who is lifeguardasleep?07:48
ograyup :)07:48
ogradholbach07:48
makoahh, nice :)07:48
ajmitchogra: btw who was chosen to approve new MOTUs & review packages?07:49
ajmitchMithrandir?07:49
ograand Treenaks07:49
ajmitchok07:49
ograso we have a fallback if one is missing.... which is a great thing07:49
ajmitchyep07:50
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smurfixBah. Last time I was on vacation with a broken hard disk this time I had to fix my uncle's box .. with a broken harddisk. :-/08:12
zulso suck up to those two :)08:14
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smurfixjust for the record, the meeting time is OK for me09:20
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