[12:22] <dholbach> brb
[12:41] <zul> hey
[12:52] <thom> Mithrandir: *sigh*
[01:09] <zul> jbailey, ping
[01:15] <Mitario> good night everyone
[01:24] <zul> mako: ping
[01:26] <zul> mako: ive uploaded willy's key to the keyserver 
[01:26] <mako> zul: um.. ok :)
[01:30] <dholbach> seb128: you had the URL of herzi's gaim-encryption?
[01:30] <dholbach> seb128: i'd check it against dredg's one
[01:31] <seb128> the URL is in the bug
[01:31] <seb128> and the package name is in the bug title
[01:31] <seb128> should be easy to find :)
[01:31] <zul> must go clean the guinea pig cage
[01:31] <dholbach> seb128: ok... i'll get to it
[01:41] <dholbach> *grr* why doesnt darcs->ghc6->haddock exist on any other platform than i386?
[01:42] <elmo_> it's a haskell compiler written in haskell IIRC
[01:42] <dholbach> i see
[01:43] <elmo_> err, tho, it should exist on powerpc
[01:43] <elmo_> and ia64 and sparc
[01:44] <dholbach> ghc6 build failed on every arch except i386
[01:45] <dholbach> haddock only was succesfully built on i386 too
[01:45] <elmo_> I mean in Debian, it exists on those arches, might be worth looking into why it failed for us
[01:45] <dholbach> so i can't test the tla-load-dirs python-transition--package (only have amd64)   (contains darcs-load-dirs)
[01:46] <dholbach> ah ok... sorry - didnt look in debian
[01:46] <elmo_> might need an, err, helping hand from lamont
[01:48] <lamont> elmo_: heh
[01:50] <lamont> dholbach: it doesn't exist because either it didn't work when I tried bootstrapping it, or I didn't try
[01:51] <dholbach> sounds reasonable ;-)
[01:56] <zul> svenl: how is the ppc stuff going?
[02:04] <zul> lamont: the inotify patch is the new inotify patch the one i added before abi brokerage 
[02:06] <lamont> zul: the inotify patch is the one you sent that was backed out pending the abi roll
[02:06] <zul> lamont: ok because i was going to add a note to a bunch of inotify bugs to tell the users to use the new kernel that was uploaded today
[02:08] <lamont> ah, ok
[02:08] <zul> so ill ask them to try it now
[02:09] <seb128> inotify should be fixed ?
[02:09] <zul> i hope :)
[02:10] <seb128> it crashed my box this morning
[02:11] <zul> 2.6.10-4-22?
[02:12] <zul> or 2.6.10-4 
[02:12] <seb128> -19
[02:13] <zul> try the newest version
[02:13] <seb128> yep, I've not noticed it, dunno why
[02:13] <zul> grr
[02:13] <seb128> hum
[02:13] <seb128> it's not in the updated
[02:14] <seb128> updates even
[02:14] <zul> umm...okie dokie lamont..^^^
[02:14] <seb128> grah, that's -4 now
[02:15] <zul> heh
[02:16] <lamont> -23
[02:16] <lamont> seb128: yeah - abi event
[02:17] <lamont> linux-meta hasn't been uploaded yet - we're waiting for d-i to be there
[02:29] <seb128> hum
[02:29] <seb128> the new inotify is booong
[02:29] <tseng> hey seb128, thanks for helping me fix bug again.
[02:29] <seb128> the kernel crash before getting the desktop loaded
[02:29] <seb128> np
[02:29] <seb128> thanks for the packages :)
[02:29] <tseng> np :)
[02:30] <seb128> jdub: here ?
[02:30] <jdub> yo
[02:31] <seb128> why are you flooding my logs with audio stuff ? :p
[02:31] <tseng> oh rock out gtk-sharp2 is in !
[02:31] <jdub> seb128: haha :)
[02:31] <seb128> BTW have you read the rhythmbox bug that I've reassigned ?
[02:31] <tseng> lamont: hey.. if you find a spare moment could you please kick muine 0.8.2 on the buildds, it should be in depwait since gtk-sharp2 didnt make it in first
[02:31] <jdub> hrm, missed that one; #?
[02:32] <seb128> jdub: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6741
[02:32] <mjg59> Hmm. That was an interesting night.
[02:33] <jdub> seb128: bah, no useful information ;)
[02:34] <seb128> no, but I'm starting to wondering if we should roll back to esound
[02:34] <jdub> seb128: yeah, same here; lennart has only just come back from egypt
[02:36] <marcin_ant> jdub: oh you are here
[02:36] <marcin_ant> jdub: hi
[02:36] <zul> seb128: still crashes with the 2.6.10-4?
[02:37] <seb128> no
[02:37] <seb128> -3 crashes when I umount a device with nautilus open on it
[02:37] <seb128> -4 crashes when I log in
[02:37] <zul> gah..frig
[02:37] <seb128> it: I get some icons on the panels and a gaim connection one
[02:37] <seb128> and that freeze
[02:38] <robtaylor> mjg59: it was? ;)
[02:38] <marcin_ant> jdub: short and last question on this topic to you - what's going on with ubuntu website contest?
[02:39] <jdub> marcin_ant: coming soon :)
[02:39] <marcin_ant> jdub: come on :)
[02:39] <mjg59> robtaylor: Friend DJing at the Kambar tonight. 64 tracks of grind metal in 60 minutes.
[02:40] <marcin_ant> jdub: the truth is that I ask because I would like to use my project for some other website
[02:40] <robtaylor> mjg59: ah. i almost went, but got distract by hacking on gst-plugins =)
[02:40] <marcin_ant> jdub: and I don't know if this contest is abandoned or not.... 
[02:41] <robtaylor> rather worrienly compiling gstreamer from cvs just caused jadetex explode out of control and hose my machine..
[02:41] <marcin_ant> jdub: ehhh :)
[02:42] <mjg59> robtaylor: Well, it was certainly an experience
[02:43] <mjg59> If you'd gone, you could have introduced me to your myriad of h0t fr13nd5
[02:43] <robtaylor> mjg59: i bet =)
[02:43] <robtaylor> heh, at Wake Up Screaming? 
[02:43] <robtaylor> you dont get hot freinds at WUS ;)
[02:44] <robtaylor> come down the kambar on fri, though, and i'll see what i can do ;)
[02:44] <marcin_ant> jdub: can't you tell when - approximately?
[02:45] <mjg59> I'm in Brussels on Friday
[02:52] <marcin_ant> jdub: ok, I give up :) I'll wait until 02.28 and then I'll use this layout I sent on contest to another website
[02:52] <marcin_ant> jdub: night
[02:56] <dholbach> good night, everyone
[02:56] <robtaylor> mjg59: doh of course.. enjoy =)
[02:57] <robtaylor> night all.
[03:03] <zul> damn power outage
[03:08] <wasabi> Has anybody given any thought into packages that require a reboot/logoff-or-on after/before installation?
[03:09] <zul> hey daniels
[03:12] <daniels> zul: sup
[03:13] <lamont> tseng: actually, it's bitching about gnome parts being out of date, because only configure knows what rev it wants, instead of the build-depends being correct.  kicking
[03:14] <tseng> lamont: ok, thanks.
[03:14] <lamont> tseng: given back on i386 and ppc
[03:15] <tseng> hm looking at log now
[03:16] <lamont> tseng: and btw, dep-waits automatically get cleared once the package is in the archive (unless it's a depend: on a virtual package)
[03:16] <tseng> ah
[03:17] <tseng> No package 'gnome-icon-theme' found
[03:19] <tseng> argh
[03:21] <jbailey> zul: Sorry for the lag.  My evening went differently than I expected it to.
[03:21] <zul> jbailey: no problem 
[03:21] <zul> i was just trying a new sata snapshot
[03:24] <jbailey> snapshot?
[03:24] <jbailey> Is it developped outside of the kernel?
[03:25] <zul> nah...its a newish bk snapshot
[03:34] <zul> jbailey: its supposedly turns on atapi support
[03:34] <jbailey> zul: The new snapshot, or the driver in general?
[03:34] <zul> new snapshot
[03:34] <jbailey> Hmm.
[03:34] <jbailey> Any idea how long until they bless it?
[03:35] <jbailey> As I said, my last run in with 2.6.11 was... short lived. =)
[03:35] <zul> well im going to see if i can get it into our 2.6.10
[03:35] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[03:44] <zul> right im off to bed...night all
[03:45] <jbailey> zul: 'night!
[05:52] <lamont> I don't suppose Kamion is around...
[05:53] <bluefoxicy> uh
[05:53] <bluefoxicy> I ordered my cds in like, november
[05:54] <bluefoxicy> should they be here yet?
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  still no mono on amd64, still no beagle
[05:55] <tseng> bluefoxicy: hoary+1, see you there.
[05:56] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I thought beagle was gonna be in hoary universe and be main in hoary+1
[05:56] <tseng> hah, beagle in main? crack
[05:56] <bluefoxicy> i dun remember, I'll have to dig up the mailing list messages
[05:57] <tseng> I dont care what the messages say, beagle is too much of a moving target
[05:57] <bluefoxicy> haha
[05:57] <tseng> it needs a new dbus every week for some reason
[05:57] <tseng> dbus is frozen in hoary.
[05:57] <tseng> see the dilema?
[05:57] <Amaranth> dbus is a moving target
[05:58] <crimsun_> my machines running 'linux-image-2.6.10-4-686-smp' [2.6.10-23]  are highly unstable unless I boot with "noinotify"
[05:58] <ajmitch> Amaranth: true, looks like dbus 0.31 might be out soon
[05:58] <tseng> crimsun_: another counter point for beagle
[05:58] <tseng> inotify = crack.
[05:59] <crimsun_> fwiw, inotify-0.18-rml-2.6.10-16.dpatch was reverted in [2.6.10-18] 
[06:00] <crimsun_> (updated in 2.6.10-17, reverted in -18, updated again in -20)
[06:01] <Amaranth> heh
[06:02] <Amaranth> didn't inotify just get a complete rewrite?
[06:07] <lamont> crimsun: the version in -20 is the version that was in -17 (which caused an abi bump, and therefore got delayed)
[06:07] <crimsun_> lamont: right, and I experienced hard freezes when booting without "noinotify"
[06:08] <lamont> :-(
[06:08] <lamont> please file a bug with whatever details you can determine
[06:08] <crimsun_> surely.
[06:09] <crimsun_> (reverting that patch allows for a much more stable system)
[07:49] <pitti> Good morning
[07:53] <dilinger> hey
[08:19] <daniels> elmo_: er, as for the ddc stuff, there's nothing we can do really ... the kvm's returning entirely valid resolutions
[08:21] <pitti> argh
[08:31] <doko> morning, all
[08:32] <pitti> Hi doko
[08:35] <lamont> pitti???
[08:35] <pitti> lamont?
[08:35] <lamont> * pitti dist-upgrades and now is presented with the postfix debconf stuff
[08:35] <lamont> what debconf stuff?
[08:35] <pitti> lamont: oh, I already fixed that
[08:36] <pitti> lamont: I had debconf priority to medium
[08:36] <lamont> ah, ok
[08:36] <pitti> s/to/set to/
[08:41] <lamont> g;night all
[09:05] <pitti> elmo_: vdr sync please
[09:08] <pitti> elmo_: openswan sync please
[09:38] <Mithrandir> thom: I knew you would appreciate that bug. ;)
[09:48] <mdz> morning
[09:48] <dholbach> hai
[09:51] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[09:51] <pitti> mdz: had a nice vac?
[09:56] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:56] <dholbach> hi pitti!
[09:56] <dholbach> wie gehts? :-)
[09:58] <pitti> elmo_: xpcd sync, please
[10:02] <ogra> morning...
[10:02] <dholbach> hello ogra!
[10:02] <pitti> Hi ogra
[10:02] <pitti> ogra: what's the status of the dmidecode patch
[10:02] <pitti> s//?/
[10:02] <mdz> pitti: yes
[10:02] <pitti> ogra: and the hal-device-manager frontend?
[10:03] <mdz> but I have returned to a houseful of problems
[10:03] <ogra> you will get both before the weekend....had some real world probs here
[10:03] <pitti> mdz: I have some more for you, but they can wait until tomorrow
[10:03] <pitti> mdz: settle down first :-)
[10:03] <pitti> ogra: that's fine
[10:03] <ogra> (which results in a decision if i write my resignment today or wait until the end of the week)
[10:03] <pitti> ogra: oh, you resign from your current job?
[10:04] <ogra> i think i will have to, eve i dont know frm what i shall live the next three months (they lock ma dole for three months as you know)
[10:05] <pitti> ogra: "ma dole" ?
[10:05] <pitti> ogra: you should grab some bounties :-)
[10:05] <ogra> my new manager i have since november told me monday that i'm not allowed to use any linux at my workplace anymore and no extarnal HW is allowed anymore (no laptop)
[10:06] <ogra> my dole indeed
[10:06] <jdub> ouch
[10:06] <pitti> that sounds bad...
[10:06] <ogra> but since i was not interested in digital video broadcasting anyway it was only a matter of time....
[10:07] <dholbach> hi mvo
[10:07] <ogra> ....he and i had kind of a fight the last months...i guess he won :)
[10:07] <pitti> Moin mvo
[10:07] <mvo> hi dholbach, hi pitti, morning all
[10:08] <Kamion> morning
[10:08] <Kamion> mdz: up a bit early?
[10:08] <mdz> morning, Kamion/mvo
[10:08] <mdz> Kamion: just got in from the airport
[10:08] <mdz> up late would be more accurate
[10:09] <ogra> mdz: how is the water situation ?
[10:10] <ogra> heard bad news about lots of rain again
[10:10] <mvo> hi mdz, did you had a nice vacation?
[10:12] <mdz> ogra: it is very bad
[10:12] <ogra> damned
[10:12] <mdz> mvo: yes, thanks
[10:12] <dholbach> crimsun: ping
[10:13] <dholbach> mdz: where have you been?
[10:16] <mdz> dholbach: vacation
[10:16] <dholbach> yes... that's what i already read :-)
[10:17] <dholbach> but it's ok... settle down :-)
[10:20] <dholbach> good morning dredg 
[10:21] <dredg> lo all
[10:21] <dredg> lo dholbach 
[10:21] <ogra> hi dredg
[10:21] <dredg> hi ogra 
[10:22] <thom> hrm, mutt-ng looks interesting
[10:22] <opi> mutt-ng?
[10:22] <opi> some kind of fork()?
[10:22] <pitti> thom: what's cool about it?
[10:22] <bob2> they intergated nntp, for one
[10:23] <opi> nice
[10:23] <bob2> and a sidebar
[10:23] <opi> but slrn fans will not be happy ;)
[10:23] <bob2> tho that sounds kinda ass in a terminal
[10:23] <jdub> interesting
[10:23] <opi> point us to the url, man! :)
[10:23] <bob2> (mutt-ng.berlios.de)
[10:23] <pitti> a _sidebar_???
[10:23] <pitti> gulp
[10:23] <ogra> heh
[10:23] <dholbach> someone did packages of it
[10:23] <dholbach> i think it was norbert tretkowski
[10:24] <dholbach> yes: http://www.inittab.de/blog/debian
[10:24] <opi> http://mutt-ng.berlios.de/
[10:24] <pitti> so where are the screenshots? :-)
[10:25] <bob2> their blog is awesome
[10:25] <pitti> thom: does that mean that mutt-ng supports gpm now? 
[10:25] <bob2> especially the bit about being unable to connect to the db
[10:26] <pitti> bob2: ah, I already thought it worked for you...
[10:26] <thom> gpm?
[10:26] <pitti> thom: console mouse
[10:26] <Treenaks> pitti: also works in xterms :)
[10:26] <pitti> thom: or what should a sidebar be good for without mouse?
[10:26] <thom> i know what it is, i'm just puzzled by the concept :P
[10:26] <thom> dunno, not tried it yet
[10:27] <opi> I'm trying to build under Hoary
[10:27] <Treenaks> pitti: 2 sets of navigation keys: 1 for the message list, 1 for the navbar
[10:27] <Kamion> pitti: totally without having tried it, you could use <some shift keys>-tab to get to the sidebar
[10:27] <dholbach> crimsun: uploaded your pymad
[10:28] <pitti> Kamion: sure, but all those keypresses are not faster than two keystrokes
[10:28] <pitti> anyway, let's see :-)
[10:28] <Kamion> pitti: yeah. I can kind of see the appeal for browsing purposes, not sure; it would have to be possible to disable the sidebar
[10:29] <Kamion> in woody's mutt at least doing anything other than "go through mailboxes in sequence" or "go to mailbox whose name I know" is a bit annoying and requires lots of random hitting of c, tab, space, enter
[10:29] <opi> looks normal
[10:29] <opi> ie. no sidebar ;)
[10:31] <opi> pitti: http://www.opi.mnc.pl/muttng.png 
[10:32] <pitti> thanks
[10:32] <Kamion> dholbach: BTW you only need to (and probably, should only) use the first three parts of the Standards-Version, i.e. 3.6.1 rather than 3.6.1.1
[10:32] <Kamion> dholbach: the final .1 represents minor typographical fixes
[10:32] <pitti> opi: hmm, looks exactly like the normal mutt when unconfigured :-)
[10:32] <opi> pitti: well, maybe I should tweak .muttng ;)
[10:33] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks for the hint, will do
[10:33] <pitti> carlos: ping
[10:34] <carlos> pitti: pong
[10:34] <thom> see, the one killer thing that would make me love mutt for ever would be for imap to happen in a seperate thread, so it didn't block the UI
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: I'm currently at fixing pkgstriptranslations
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: at that occasion I can also add the translation -> binary deb mapping
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: if you want
[10:34] <Mithrandir> thom: the same goes for me with gnus and emacs.  It's supposed to be able to do async I/O, it just doesn't ATM.
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: that requires changes to your import script to process both types of domains.txt
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: is that okay for you?
[10:35] <carlos> pitti: not now
[10:35] <thom> Mithrandir: *nod*
[10:35] <pitti> carlos: okay, then I do that later
[10:35] <carlos> pitti: that change will break current dogfood script
[10:35] <carlos> you should do it after the script is updated to handle it
[10:35] <pitti> carlos: okay, no prob
[10:35] <pitti> carlos: btw, any news wrt the export?
[10:35] <carlos> pitti: have you added the new domains.txt format to the wiki?
[10:36] <pitti> carlos: it does not even exist
[10:36] <pitti> carlos: this was just my first proposal to Mark's question
[10:36] <carlos> pitti: ok
[10:36] <pitti> carlos: i. e. put deb name in second column after domain
[10:36] <bob2> Mithrandir: how does one load the chipset-specific SATA modules?
[10:36] <bob2> presumably the generic one grabs the device during boot?
[10:37] <carlos> pitti: feel free to move that question as part of the document
[10:37] <carlos> pitti: that document explains how the system works
[10:37] <carlos> or should do it
[10:37] <pitti> ok
[10:38] <carlos> pitti: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/CurrentSchedule
[10:38] <carlos> pitti: there you have what are we working on 
[10:38] <Mithrandir> bob2: hotplug, I'd think
[10:39] <bob2> Mithrandir: hm, ok
[10:39] <Mithrandir> bob2: or possibly by the initrd.
[10:40] <bob2> right
[10:41] <pitti> Kamion: I added blacklist support to pkgstriptranslations, preconfigured with "base-config passwd"
[10:41] <pitti> Kamion: I will tell lamont about the changes
[10:41] <Kamion> pitti: thanks
[10:41] <pitti> Kamion: will you upload a new shadow and base-config soon? or shall I do a dummy upload to get translations back?
[10:42] <Kamion> pitti: I upload base-config fairly frequently, and shadow isn't urgent until I change it to use the passthrough frontend which will require an upload anyway
[10:42] <pitti> okay, that's fine then
[10:43] <Amaranth> carlos: I take it I'm not supposed to be able to go to that URL?
[10:43] <carlos> Amaranth: sorry, it's a private one
[10:44] <Kamion> pitti: is the change active on the buildds now, or do I need to wait for lamont?
[10:44] <pitti> Kamion: since it updates the conffile, you need to wait for lamont, I think
[10:45] <pitti> Kamion: I added a "nostrip" option, if it is not present, all packages will be stripped (like now)
[10:45] <Kamion> ok, I have a base-config upload to do nowish, but I'll just do it and there'll be a later upload for something I'm sure
[10:45] <pitti> Kamion: but since lamont changed the conffile, it won't be updated automatically
[10:45] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, just upload it; another day of broken translations won't hurt :-)
[10:46] <Kamion> and it's only in expert mode anyway
[10:55] <dholbach> hm, i can't find documentation on  debian/<package>.install files, does anyone have a pointer towards it?
[10:56] <Treenaks> man dh_install ?
[10:56] <Treenaks> at the bottom
[10:56] <dholbach> Treenaks: an excellent suggestion :-)
[10:57] <Treenaks> somehow I'm one of the few people who get lots of thanks for saying things that are essentially "RTFM" :)
[10:58] <bob2> wish I had that superpower
[10:58] <dholbach> Treenaks: i had a look at maint-guide, developers-reference and debian-policy and couldnt find it
[10:58] <jdub> thom: what do you think about enabling smooth scrolling by default in firefox?
[10:58] <jdub> thom: know of any ugly bugs with it?
[10:58] <Treenaks> bob2: well, you could read the manual...
[11:00] <abelli> Treenaks: any adjective?
[11:00] <thom> jdub: meh!
[11:01] <Treenaks> abelli: friendly manual?
[11:01] <abelli> Treenaks: yes: )
[11:01] <jdub> thom: that will make ephy sexy too :)
[11:01] <Treenaks> jdub: smooth scrolling being ugly is a feature :)
[11:02] <pitti> thom: was CAN-2004-1316 (buffer overflow in nsNNTPProtocol.cpp) already fixed in your yesterday's ffox upload?
[11:02] <tuo2> jdub: just installed warty on my sister's second hand computer. She's never owned a computer before, and she's a convert.
[11:02] <thom> pitti: no; i only got the bug after the upload :(
[11:02] <tuo2> Good work gyus
[11:02] <tuo2> s/gyus/guys/
[11:03] <pitti> thom: ok
[11:03] <jdub> tuo2: rock!
[11:03] <thom> pitti: i'm giving up on the window injection backport again, will look in a few
[11:04] <tuo2> jdub: berrock.
[11:04] <thom> jdub: so should we (seb) be including those vte patches?
[11:04] <tuo2> jdub: but it's a pos 333. any recommendation for a faster window manager, or should I go dredge up a 500 from somewhere?
[11:04] <dholbach> dredg: replied to your mail
[11:05] <jdub> thom: he's looking at them (and they may go into vte anyway)
[11:05] <thom> cool cool
[11:05] <jdub> tuo2: turn on metacity's low resources mode
[11:06] <dredg> dholbach: argh. that will teach me to do things at 3am.
[11:06] <dholbach> dredg: don't worry :-)
[11:06] <tuo2> jdub: which I find where?
[11:08] <jdub> tuo2: gconf /apps/metacity -> in there somewhere
[11:09] <tuo2> jdub: cheers.
[11:09] <tuo2> And if you see any shitty 500mhz boxes going cheap, lemme know?
[11:14] <stockholm> when is jane around?
[11:25] <dholbach> hi seb128 
[11:26] <seb128> morning
[11:27] <Treenaks> sebz0r
[11:43] <dholbach> jdub: please ban hostinggeek in #ubuntu-love
[11:44] <stockholm> lol
[11:44] <rburton> man i'm always in the wrong channels for amusingly idiots
[11:45] <bob2> dholbach: please don't inflame it
[11:47] <dholbach> bob2: i already told him exactly the same thing, some minutes ago... but he just keeps on trolling
[11:47] <bob2> yes, he is an idiot
[11:47] <dholbach> [11:07:09]  <HostingGeek> b0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o
[11:47] <dholbach> [11:08:01]  <HostingGeek> i am on my brothers computer and making him look gay on msn
[11:48] <stockholm> perhaps one should mail HostingGeek about his brother...
[11:48] <dredg> perhaps we should /ignore him and stop caring.
[11:48] <Treenaks> stockholm: maybe someone should mail his brother about HIM
[11:49] <bob2> he's been a problem for a very long time
[11:50] <Kamion> elmo: please sync putty 0.57-1 (security fix)
[11:52] <stockholm> Treenaks: i was assuming that hostingGeek was the brothers nick.
[11:56] <Treenaks> stockholm: it is not..
[12:16] <Mitario> hi everyone
[12:18] <mvo> hi Mitario 
[12:25] <jdub> dholbach: hrm
[12:26] <dholbach> jdub: bob2 calmed the situation down
[12:26] <jdub> yeah
[12:26] <bob2> haha "calmed".
[12:27] <stockholm> bob2: what did you do? (c:
[12:32] <pitti> hey, now we have two elmos :-)
[12:32] <dredg> 3 :)
[12:32] <dredg> 1 :(
[12:32] <pitti> hm, what a pity :-(
[12:33] <Amaranth> 2!
[12:33] <dredg> er, elmo bingo? :)
[12:35] <opi> pitti: and cloning is illegal ;)
[12:35] <pitti> opi: he doesn't clone, he fork()s
[12:35] <opi> pitti: so, he's resource hungry
[12:40] <mjg59> Kamion: Around?
[12:42] <Kamion> mjg59: yo
[12:42] <mjg59> Kamion: Did you sort the kernel build issues?
[12:43] <Kamion> mjg59: yup; couple of #ifdefs, see colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/kernel-debian--powerpc-config--2.6.10
[12:43] <Kamion> (powerpc-config is really misnamed, but hey)
[12:43] <Kamion> mjg59: lamont's uploaded -23 with that, it built
[12:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: I might be picking up the tpb bug and rewrite it, if I get around to it.  So if somebody else volunteers in the next week or so, give it to them.
[12:44] <mjg59> Kamion: Rock. Have you had a chance to see what it does on your ibook?
[12:44] <pitti> Mithrandir: okay, have fun :-)
[12:44] <Kamion> mjg59: not yet, waiting to be able to build an ISO with it
[12:45] <Kamion> adare's currently building d-i, so after BYHANDing ...
[12:45] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[12:45] <elmo_> Kamion: when will an install iso for ia64 with the new kernel appear?  not are-we-there-yet-ing, just need to know when i should retry
[12:47] <Kamion> elmo_: if you ping me when debian-installer_20041227ubuntu15_powerpc has built and you byhand it, I'll start building ISOs then, so +1hr
[12:47] <Kamion> I'll be out at lunch from 12:30 though
[12:47] <elmo_> ok
[12:49] <Kamion> elmo_: did you catch my putty sync request?
[12:50] <elmo_> hmm, nope not in my logs either
[12:50] <pitti> elmo_: and my requests? (vdr, xpcd, openswan)
[12:51] <elmo_> pitti: did them
[12:51] <pitti> elmo_: thanks
[12:51] <elmo_> Kamion: done
[12:52] <elmo_> Kamion: powerpc d-i's in queue/accepted, will go out in next cron.daily in ~10 mins
[12:53] <Kamion> 10:50 < Kamion> elmo: please sync putty 0.57-1 (security fix)
[12:53] <Kamion> oh, you got it
[12:58] <pitti> mjg59: here?
[12:59] <pitti> mjg59: just tried ppc sleep with new kernel
[12:59] <pitti> mjg59: now it indeed goes to sleep, but it doesn't wake up again
[12:59] <pitti> mjg59: if I press a key while sleeping, the hd starts again, but the screen remains black and I can't ping
[12:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do you have trouble with pterm using the altscreen (or what it's called) feature of xterm, but not cleaning up properly?
[01:00] <pitti> mjg59: anything I could try?
[01:01] <mjg59> pitti: Hmm.
[01:01] <mjg59> pitti: What model is this?
[01:02] <pitti> mjg59: new iBook G4, 7455 CPU
[01:02] <pitti> mjg59: Radeon 9200
[01:02] <mjg59> Ok.
[01:03] <mjg59> So in theory it ought to work, but it plainly isn't.
[01:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hm, don't think I've noticed that
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: let me make a screenshot
[01:04] <pitti> mjg59: well, the older kernels didn't even go to sleep
[01:04] <pitti> mjg59: this works perfectly now, but it doesn't fully wake up
[01:04] <pitti> mjg59: at least network and screen don't, so debugging is hard
[01:08] <jdub> *ouch*
[01:08] <jdub> i hadn't got the inotify bug until just now
[01:08] <pitti> jdub: hehe
[01:08] <jdub> i upgraded to -4, massive hang on login
[01:08] <seb128> lucky you
[01:08] <seb128> I don't go to the desktop with -4
[01:08] <seb128> some icons on the panel
[01:08] <seb128> gaim starts
[01:08] <jdub> yeah
[01:08] <seb128> and BUM
[01:08] <jdub> same here
[01:08] <Kamion> jdub: should I make the CDs use noinotify for now?
[01:08] <seb128> BOOM even
[01:08] <jdub> must be gamin starting ;)
[01:08] <mjg59> pitti: Right. I'm looking into that.
[01:08] <seb128> yeah
[01:09] <jdub> Kamion: as default grub config?
[01:09] <mjg59> pitti: I can't find any obvious differences between the patches in the kernel and the ones that were in the old ibook sleep diff
[01:09] <Kamion> jdub: yes
[01:09] <jdub> Kamion: means those installers won't get inotify ever, right? :)
[01:09] <jbailey> thom: Ping?
[01:09] <pitti> mjg59: it behaved exactly the same with older patches
[01:09] <Kamion> jdub: yeah
[01:09] <pitti> mjg59: with the older patches I also tried to stop X and remove all possible modules
[01:09] <jdub> Kamion: hrm...
[01:09] <pitti> mjg59: and stop all services
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: http://err.no/tmp/pterm-altscreen-fuckup.png has dpkg output overlaid my older ls.
[01:09] <pitti> mjg59: still no luck
[01:10] <mjg59> pitti: Ah, which older patches?
[01:10] <Kamion> jdub: I'll leave it off for now, but if it takes too long to fix I'm going to have to add that
[01:10] <mjg59> The ibook-g4-sleep stuff from benh?
[01:10] <pitti> mjg59: I tried the Kernel that Kamion compiled in Matar
[01:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ick. so that was aptitude?
[01:11] <mjg59> pitti: No idea what that one was, I'm afraid
[01:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes
[01:11] <mjg59> Kamion: Do you have any recollection?
[01:11] <Kamion> mjg59: yes, I can send you the patch
[01:11] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, thanks
[01:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have XTerm.VT100.titeInhibit:  true, though.  Not sure if that affects it
[01:11] <mjg59> Kamion: Did that one work on your machine?
[01:12] <Kamion> mjg59: yes. you have mail
[01:12] <Kamion> mjg59: although at the moment pressing the power button doesn't seem to have any effect
[01:13] <Kamion> mjg59: I haven't changed the kernel so I think it's a userspace problem
[01:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: pterm doesn't look at anything in XTerm.*
[01:13] <mjg59> Kamion: As in it slept and resumed correctly?
[01:14] <mjg59> Kamion: But the same kernel didn't work on Martin's ibook?
[01:15] <pitti> mjg59: right
[01:15] <Kamion> mjg59: yes, it slept and resumed correctly
[01:15] <elmo_> Kamion: cool, thanks
[01:15] <mjg59> Kamion: What spec is your ibook?
[01:16] <elmo_> mjg59: he has a  powerbook
[01:16] <mjg59> Ah. Strange, I thought it was an ibook. Right
[01:16] <Kamion> powerbook g4, the 15" model
[01:16] <eazel7> hi
[01:16] <elmo_> IIRC it's a PowerMac5,3 or so
[01:17] <mjg59> So it'll be a different radeon
[01:17] <elmo_> mine's a 5,4
[01:17] <Kamion> machine         : PowerBook5,2
[01:17] <Kamion> motherboard     : PowerBook5,2 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh
[01:17] <elmo_> 0000:00:10.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10] 
[01:17] <mjg59> I'll handwavily blame video reinitialisation, then
[01:17] <Kamion> 0000:00:10.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10] 
[01:17] <eazel7> I'm trying to compile koffice cvs but it tells me that it requires autoconf 2.53 or newer, but I have autoconf 2.59 installed
[01:17] <eazel7> how do I continue?
[01:18] <mjg59> pitti: Does your machine boot if you disable the framebuffer?
[01:18] <pitti> mjg59: hmm, I have to try
[01:18] <mjg59> And if so, does it then suspend/resume correctly?
[01:19] <pitti> mjg59: how do I do this, vga=1?
[01:19] <pitti> mjg59: or is there a framebuffer kernel option?
[01:20] <mjg59> pitti: video=radeonfb:off
[01:22] <mjg59> Kamion: The patch you sent me looks broadly equivilent to the stuff that's been applied, so if you have a chance to test the stock kernel that would be great
[01:22] <pitti> mjg59: bah, specifying command line args at yaboot doesn't work. Have to try again
[01:22] <Kamion> mjg59: will do later today
[01:25] <Kamion> pitti: command line args to yaboot should work fine?
[01:25] <pitti> indeed, it made a difference
[01:25] <pitti> mjg59: I booted with that argument
[01:25] <pitti> mjg59: I saw the initial boot messages, but now if I switch to the consoles I don't see anything
[01:25] <pitti> mjg59: and the thing doesn't go to sleep
[01:25] <pitti> mjg59: when pressing the power button, at least (this worked before)
[01:26] <mjg59> Ok, that figures. The framebuffer needs to say that it supports sleep, and it won't if radeonfb is disabled.
[01:26] <mjg59> Hmm. Not sure of the best way to test, then.
[01:28] <mjg59> pitti: How about if you do video=ofonly ?
[01:30] <pitti> mjg59: I still get the boot logo and normal-sized boot messages (is that right?)
[01:31] <pitti> okay, consoles are black
[01:31] <pitti> and it won't sleep
[01:31] <pitti> mjg59: ^
[01:32] <mjg59> pitti: Hm. Ok, that's probably consistent.
[01:32] <mjg59> One last thing to try - can you boot normally (so with radeonfb switched on), log in at the console, stop HAL and try sleep?
[01:33] <mjg59> pitti: Oh, and what does /proc/cpuinfo look like?
[01:33] <pitti> mjg59: this failed with the old patch, but I try again
[01:33] <pitti> mjg59: will tell you when it booted
[01:34] <mjg59> pitti: No problem
[01:35] <pitti> mjg59: shall I shutdown X?
[01:35] <pitti> mjg59: cpuinfo:
[01:35] <pitti> cpu: 7455, altivec supported
[01:35] <pitti> revision 3.3 (pvr 8001 0303)
[01:36] <pitti> 610.30 bogomips
[01:36] <mjg59> pitti: Yeah, go to the console and do snooze -f
[01:36] <pitti> PowerBook6,3
[01:36] <pitti> detected as: 287 (iBook G4)
[01:36] <pitti> pmac flags: 0000001b
[01:36] <pitti> NewWorld
[01:37] <pitti> mjg59: snooze doesn't exist
[01:37] <mjg59> pitti: Ah. apm -s ?
[01:37] <pitti> mjg59: that does nothing
[01:38] <pitti> mjg59: I stopped hal, X is still running, I'm at the console
[01:38] <mjg59> pitti: Does /dev/apm_bios exist?
[01:39] <pitti> yes
[01:44] <ogra> hmm, so hibernate seems to work on my aspire 1520, it just doesnt wake up anymore....
[01:45] <pitti> mjg59: wakeup without hal and with X from console doesn't work, too
[01:45] <Treenaks> ogra: DOH
[01:45] <Treenaks> I'm still waiting for locking suspend scripts
[01:45] <pitti> mjg59: Caps lock operation works, so it's not completely dead
[01:45] <ogra> Treenaks: wasnt unexpected :)
[01:45] <mjg59> pitti: Hrm, the snooze command seems to be missing from pmud-utils nowadays. How odd.
[01:46] <mjg59> pitti: I've no idea how caps lock is handled on Macs, sadly. If you do it from the console, when you resume are you able to do ls -R / and get lots of disk access?
[01:49] <pitti> mjg59: I can also try to play a sound
[01:49] <pitti> mjg59: I try both
[01:49] <mjg59> pitti: Ok, cool
[01:50] <stockholm> pitti: can we make wishes what you play?
[01:51] <stockholm> does jane silbers surface here regularly or am i waiting for godon (or however that guy was spelled)?
[01:51] <pitti> mjg59: neither works
[01:51] <pitti> stockholm: "Insomnia - I can't get no sleep"
[01:52] <stockholm> pitti: seems fitting enough. (c:
[01:52] <pitti> mjg59: ctlr+alt+del doesn't work either
[01:52] <mjg59> pitti: Ok, so it's not waking up. I suspect it's radeonfb being unhappy, but it's hard to be sure.
[01:52] <Mithrandir> stockholm: she's not in here usually, no.  And it's Godot.
[01:53] <elmo_> stockholm: I think Jane's out of the country ATM
[01:53] <stockholm> oh. ok, thanks
[01:53] <thom> stockholm: and this is not #harrass-canonical-employees, anyway :-)
[01:53] <Mithrandir> stockholm: try email. (:
[01:53] <jdub> jane took a plane to the plains in spain
[01:54] <jdub> i hope it doesn't rain
[01:54] <jdub> because that would be a pain
[01:54] <stockholm> thom: i did not assume it was.
[01:54] <Treenaks> MC Jdub: word!
[01:54] <stockholm> thx
[01:54] <Keybuk> jdub: can you not upload the vte-enhanced stuff to Ubuntu?
[01:54] <jdub> Keybuk: i could
[01:55] <Keybuk> it'd make a nice change for you to upload something not broken <g>
[01:55] <Keybuk> not that I'm bitter about my sound not working, or anything
[01:55] <jdub> well, hey, that's why i haven't uploaded it :)
[01:55] <jdub> but i've been using it for a while now
[01:56] <Keybuk> do you have a planned fix for the "polypaudio only works for the first 10 apps" problem?
[01:56] <seb128> what change is that ?
[01:56] <Keybuk> jdub: got debs?
[01:56] <Treenaks> Keybuk: killall polypaudio, set default gstreamer backend to alsa :)
[01:56] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah
[01:56] <Keybuk> Treenaks: sound card can't multiplex :-(
[01:56] <elmo_> Treenaks: alsa is horked on ppc
[01:56] <jdub> seb128: kjartan's vte test tarballs
[01:56] <Treenaks> elmo_: oh wait yeah
[01:56] <jdub> seb128: see my blog
[01:56] <seb128> jdub: oh ok, stealing my packages
[01:56] <Treenaks> elmo_: so is polyp on i386 :)
[01:56] <seb128> jdub: bad boy :p
[01:57] <jdub> Keybuk: polypaudio isn't working for you?
[01:57] <Keybuk> jdub: nope
[01:57] <seb128> for me neither
[01:57] <jdub> what is it doing?
[01:57] <seb128> I need to kill it 
[01:57] <Keybuk> jdub: refuses connections because it already has 10
[01:57] <seb128> it refuses to work with totem/rhythmbox whatever
[01:57] <Keybuk> Feb 23 11:41:48 descent polypaudio[9164] : protocol-esound.c: Warning! Too many connections (10), dropping incoming connection.
[01:57] <Keybuk> etc.
[01:57] <seb128> probably the same issue
[01:57] <Treenaks> same for me
[01:57] <jdub> man, that is weird
[01:57] <jdub> i have never seen that
[01:57] <Keybuk> I assume the 10 existing connections are things like the panel, nautilus, applets, etc. as each opens an esound connection for events
[01:58] <jdub> ywah
[01:58] <ogra> on every startup....
[01:58] <seb128> jdub: you should include a "current vte" in the blog
[01:59] <jdub> seb128: down the bottom
[01:59] <thom> seb128: the update has that
[01:59] <seb128> oh, k
[01:59] <seb128> rock
[01:59] <seb128> is he going to do a release ?
[01:59] <ogra> dholbach: does rhythmbox work for you ?
[01:59] <jdub> seb128: most likely, yes
[01:59] <jdub> seb128: i was just going to wait until then
[02:00] <seb128> k
[02:00] <Keybuk> jdub: polyp/protocol-esound.c line 49-50
[02:00] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah
[02:00] <Keybuk> #define MAX_CONNECTIONS 10
[02:00] <Keybuk> /* Don't accept more connection than this */
[02:00] <Keybuk> #define MAX_CONNECTIONS 10
[02:00] <Keybuk> gee, only 10 apps get sound, that's _handy_
[02:01] <Mithrandir> why isn't that FILE_MAX?
[02:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: probably the developer thought that connected apps woudl play sound all the time :-)
[02:01] <pitti> instead of just beeping every once in a while
[02:02] <Treenaks> why is it a #define and not a config option? :)
[02:02] <jdub> Keybuk: i'll set it to 50 :-)
[02:02] <Mithrandir> jdub: wrong fix.
[02:02] <Keybuk> jdub: yeah, or you could always just remove the check
[02:02] <jdub> Mithrandir: sure, but i'll leave it to lennart to fix it correctly
[02:03] <jdub> line 1048
[02:04] <tseng> yeah that MAX_CONNECTIONS is causing crack with muine as well
[02:05] <tseng> there is no error handling hacks for when an esd connection cant be made by gstreamer, so the whole thing segfaults
[02:05] <tseng> not cool.
[02:05] <dholbach> ogra: nope :-/
[02:07] <Astharot> good morning
[02:07] <dholbach> can somebody tell me, why evolution now types everything backwards?
[02:07] <pitti> Hi Astharot 
[02:07] <dholbach> *GRRR*
[02:07] <dholbach> ynnuf ton si siht
[02:07] <elmo_> dholbach: haha, really?
[02:08] <dholbach> it's like some dumb roleplaying spell
[02:08] <Keybuk> gub ktg zi
[02:08] <Mithrandir> (:
[02:08] <Treenaks> 821bes semalb em\
[02:09] <dholbach> ti kcufnu esaelp ydobemos
[02:09] <Treenaks> !!! 821BES
[02:09] <dholbach> ah fine... now it crashed
[02:10] <Treenaks> dholbach: you sure you didn't insert a Unicode "RTL" mark?
[02:10] <dholbach> don't think so
[02:11] <dholbach> well the mail i replied to was written on a turkish keyboard
[02:11] <dholbach> but that's not RTL at all
[02:12] <Treenaks> (hmm.. how to annoy other people.. add a unicode RTL mark after every email you send.. and hope their client doesn't strip it on reply)
[02:12] <Treenaks> *adds to BOFH lsit*
[02:12] <dholbach> Treenaks: i'd love to have your worries instead :-)
[02:12] <tseng> jdub: i recommend using alsasink while polyp is smoking crack
[02:13] <jdub> it is not smoking crack here :)
[02:14] <jdub> $ muine
[02:14] <jdub> Segmentation fault
[02:14] <jdub> aha ;)
[02:15] <Keybuk> ok, why isn't update-grub getting run when I upgrade linux-image-* ?
[02:15] <elmo_> Keybuk: check /etc/kernel-img.conf
[02:15] <Keybuk> elmo_: first thing I checked, just has do_symlinks=No and do_initrd=yes
[02:16] <elmo_> I think you need do_bootloader=yes too ?
[02:16] <Keybuk> never had it before
[02:17] <sivang> "morning" all
[02:18] <dholbach> hi sivan! phase shifting again? :-)
[02:19] <thom> Keybuk: mine has:
[02:19] <thom> postinst_hook = /sbin/update-grub
[02:19] <thom> postrm_hook   = /sbin/update-grub
[02:19] <Keybuk> what puts those there?
[02:19] <elmo_> older warty did
[02:19] <elmo_> new warty doesn't AFAICT
[02:20] <thom> interesting; time for a reinstall i guess
[02:23] <Keybuk> weird, have those on hoary array 4 too
[02:24] <elmo_> ah, hang on
[02:24] <elmo_> the machine that doesn't have the _hook stuff is one where grub doesn't work on the CD
[02:24] <elmo_> so I may be talking complete rubbish (as usual) just  ignore me
[02:25] <Mitario> mvo, here?
[02:26] <Mitario> mvo, oh, never mind ;)
[02:30] <dholbach> hmmm, bug-buddy--called--gdb seems to hang... 
[02:30] <dholbach> could it be, that  gdb --pid=<pid>  doesnt work when there's another  gdb  attached to the process?
[02:30] <dholbach> i get   /home/daniel/16799: file not found
[02:34] <Keybuk> gdb =process pid
[02:34] <Keybuk> isn't it?
[02:34] <Keybuk> uh, =process being "path to process binary"
[02:35] <elmo_> I don't think you can ptrace something twice, I may well be on crack tho
[02:36] <elmo_> yeah
[02:36] <elmo_> ptrace: Operation not permitted.
[02:36] <elmo_> dholbach: that should be the line above the file not found error
[02:36] <dholbach> damn, so so i'll loose that backtrace
[02:36] <Keybuk> yeah, U get that too
[02:36] <Keybuk> I even
[02:37] <dholbach> i wonder why gdb hanged itself in the first place
[02:37] <Keybuk> the "No such file or directory" is probably gdb being thick and assuming the next argument must be a filename and not a pid
[02:37] <dholbach> Keybuk, elmo: you're right
[02:40] <dredg> hmm... if i want to remove a couple of files after the binary-install (ie just before the deb is created) is it better to use a $packagename.install file to only install selected files, or is it ok to use a couple of 'rm' lines to wipe them out
[02:40] <sivang> dholbach: tried to shift my daytime, no success yet :)
[02:41] <dredg> additional: i'm using cdbs, and the rm lines are being added to a `binary-install' section in rules
[02:41] <dholbach> sivang: go running in the afternoon :-)
[02:42] <sivang> dholbach: yeah, seririously, I should.
[02:42] <dholbach> sivang: but i was in bed at 3:00 this morning again :-)
[02:42] <jbailey> dredg: If it's a single package, so everything's being installed into the package dir, already, use rm.
[02:43] <jbailey> dredg: If you're Using an .install file anyway, I generally prefer to see it done there (since people don't really expect bits to be rm'd out of the way outside of debhelper files)
[02:44] <dredg> jbailey: that's what i figured, i just wanted clarification after i got a suggestion from someone else
[02:45] <dredg> jbailey: previously i had not being using a .install file. thanks for clarifying
[02:50] <dholbach> brb
[03:04] <zul> hey
[03:20] <mjg59> Who should kernel issues be assigned to at the moment?
[03:20] <Kamion> jdub: can I merge mdadm 1.9.0 past UVF? see Message-ID: <1109157340.421c65dcdb413@testmail-mobilmail-at.dmz.fiber-connect.at> on ubuntu-users
[03:21] <Kamion> mjg59: I've been giving them to lamont
[03:21] <mjg59> lamont@canonical.com?
[03:21] <Kamion> lamont@ubuntu.com; but just type 'lamont' and bugzilla works it out
[03:21] <mjg59> Oh, neat
[03:22] <Kamion> how come nobody has ops on #ubuntu-love?
[03:22] <Kamion> (not registered with chanserv)
[03:24] <jdub> i do
[03:25] <jdub> Kamion: yeah, approved
[03:25] <Kamion> jdub: ah, obviously chanserv magic of which I wasn't aware; didn't know you could do that with unregistered channels
[03:25] <Kamion> jdub: thanks
[03:25] <jdub> Kamion: perhaps we should autofile bugs for urgency=high uploads? :)
[03:25] <jdub> it's a registered channel
[03:26] <Kamion> oh, silly irssi
[03:26] <Kamion> '/msg chan<tab>' expanded to '/msg -OFTC chanserv' and I believed it
[03:26] <jdub> heh
[03:52] <dholbach> seb128: ping
[03:52] <seb128> pong
[03:52] <dholbach> seb128: want to have a look at dredg's gaim-encryption package? it's alright with me now and i'd upload it 
[03:53] <seb128> if you want
[03:53] <seb128> url ?
[03:53] <dholbach> seb128: http://niall.frogstomp.com/wip/gaim-encryption/, if YOU want :-)
[03:56] <elmo_> Kamion: there's already a bug about that btw
[03:56] <elmo_> mdadm - but please do it - I need it for the DC in a big way
[03:58] <seb128> dholbach: looks fine, the debian/dirs file is probably not needed
[03:59] <abelli> sorry what's it.archive.ubuntu.com?
[03:59] <Kamion> elmo_: there is? I'll go check
[03:59] <dholbach> dredg: listening?
[03:59] <Kamion> elmo_: (just uploaded, btw)
[04:00] <dholbach> seb128: but it shouldnt hurt either :-)
[04:00] <pitti> lamont: ping
[04:00] <abelli> i mean what's the difference with plain archive.ubuntu.com?
[04:00] <abelli> pitti: ciao... tomorrow: last exam.
[04:00] <pitti> abelli: good luck!
[04:00] <Kamion> abelli: none yet, someday perhaps there will be
[04:00] <abelli> pitti: thanks
[04:00] <dholbach> abelli: *crosses fingers*
[04:00] <pitti> abelli: then I can bother you again with the kernel? :-)
[04:01] <abelli> pitti: ill be so glad...
[04:01] <abelli> dholbach: thank you... electrotechincs.. bah...
[04:01] <Kamion> abelli: right now *.archive.ubuntu.com == archive.ubuntu.com apart from a few exceptions, but the installer uses <country-code>.archive.ubuntu.com for purposes of future expansion
[04:01] <abelli> Kamion: ok thank you
[04:01] <seb128> dholbach: right, you can put a lot of useless stuff in the package and they that doesn't hurt
[04:01] <dholbach> abelli: i hopefully had my last exam 1 week ago
[04:01] <seb128> dholbach: not a good reason to have them though
[04:01] <dholbach> seb128: hehe :-)
[04:02] <dredg> ok.
[04:03] <elmo_> there's a de.archive.u.c now too, and fr.archive.u.c is just pending testing
[04:03] <seb128> anybody with an evolution's bug to fix for hoary around ?
[04:03] <seb128> please point them now
[04:03] <elmo_> (and that covers the top 3 in terms of BW)
[04:03] <pitti> seb128: yesh
[04:03] <seb128> (there is an evolution meeting)
[04:04] <dholbach> seb128: had a strange issue an hour ago - i edited a mail and suddenly typing was all backwards - 2 minutes later evo crashed and gdb hung, couldnt get a backtrace :-(
[04:05] <pitti> seb128: darn, now I can't reproduce it any more
[04:05] <seb128> without a backtrace or a wait to get it ...
[04:05] <dredg> seb128: so just the `dirs' file then?
[04:05] <seb128> pitti: which one ?
[04:05] <seb128> dredg: correct
[04:05] <dredg> seb128: fantastic, cheers
[04:05] <Kamion> jdub: did you mean to close #966?
[04:05] <Kamion> (it's still ASSIGNED)
[04:05] <pitti> seb128: unfiled
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: however, I have a big wishlist item
[04:06] <seb128> description
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: add an option to change the editor
[04:06] <seb128> I've patched from some gtkhtml crashers
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: without vim integration, evo is nearly worthless :-)
[04:06] <seb128> that's not going to happen for hoary, we are in feature/string freezes
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: I know, but I thought you talk with upstream?
[04:07] <pitti> seb128: for Hoary+1 it would be cool
[04:07] <pitti> or whenever
[04:07] <seb128> that's a meeting to know what is to fix for GNOME 2.10 :)
[04:07] <pitti> ah, ok :-)
[04:07] <seb128> but I note the wishlist
[04:11] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
[04:11] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[04:11] <dholbach> ahhh bradb: ping
[04:12] <bradb> dholbach: hi
[04:12] <dholbach> hi bradb - i've told, i had to bug you, if i wanted to close a bug in malone and don't know how .-)
[04:12] <dholbach> ...i've _been_ told...
[04:13] <bradb> dholbach: you have to be 1. logged in and 2. either the assignee on that task or the maintainer of the thing on which that task has been filed.
[04:13] <dholbach> i'm the maintainer of the package in universe, but i guess that's != malone-task-maintainer
[04:14] <bradb> dholbach: i'm in the midst of making that suck less (i.e. so that malone understands what a team is), but there's other bricks to lay before i get to that.
[04:14] <tseng> hm there are bugs in malone now?
[04:14] <bradb> universe is using Malone? :) nobody told me that. :)
[04:14] <dholbach> bradb: i wont bother you, it doesnt give me sleepless nights, i left it with a comment :-)
[04:15] <dholbach> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/158
[04:15] <lamont> pitti: sup?
[04:19] <dholbach> bradb: cool you're working on it :-)
[04:20] <thom> uuurgh, why on earth is malone bottom up? that's so bizarre
[04:20] <bradb> if you fixed that in universe, there should be an Ubuntu task filed on that bug (File Against Package...), or we won't be able to track that it was fixed in Ubuntu.
[04:21] <bradb> s/^/dholback: /
[04:21] <bradb> er, dholbach even
[04:22] <Kamion> bottom-up> whoa, debbugs circa 1997
[04:22] <Kamion> that sucks
[04:22] <dholbach> bradb: this is something, tim fuchs (the reporter and maintainer(in malone)) should have done, right?
[04:22] <dholbach> bradb: or did i do anything wrong?
[04:23] <doko> pitti: pumount did freeze again ...
[04:24] <Keybuk> ok, uh, so I can't login to my desktop without it crashing hard
[04:24] <pitti> doko: I know. noinotify
[04:24] <pitti> Keybuk: noinotify :-)
[04:24] <bradb> dholbach: The person that knows that the bug exists in Ubuntu should file that as an Ubuntu task. If you're an Ubuntu maintainer, see that the bug exists in Ubuntu, but doesn't yet have a task that is equivalent to say "yes, we need to fix this in Ubuntu", then you should file such a task and, when fixed, mark that specific task as fixed.
[04:24] <Keybuk> pitti: where do I put that?
[04:24] <bradb> s/say/saying/
[04:24] <pitti> Keybuk: it's a new kernel boot option
[04:24] <elmo_> hum, mpt is now built-in to the ia64 kernel is that a feature?
[04:24] <Keybuk> and who gets an hour with the sodomotron?
[04:25] <pitti> Keybuk: Fabio added this option because it is really necessary now :-)
[04:25] <lamont> elmo_: depends on the kernel vintage
[04:25] <Keybuk> pitti: but it worked with the old kernel just fine?
[04:25] <pitti> Keybuk: the best thing is to put it into menu.lst
[04:25] <elmo_> lamont: -4 ABI
[04:25] <dholbach> bradb: ah ok... now i understand... thanks 
[04:25] <lamont> hrm.
[04:25] <elmo_> what I mean is, why builtin and not a module?
[04:25] <pitti> Keybuk: well, "just fine" is certainly an exaggeration
[04:25] <bradb> dholbach: cool.
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo_: I thought that got un-built-in
[04:25] <pitti> Keybuk: but at least one could log in, yes
[04:25] <lamont> elmo_: because module detection wasn't working
[04:25] <elmo_> lamont: uh
[04:25] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, the 2.6.11 kernel has the exactly same symptom
[04:25] <lamont> Kamion: me too
[04:26] <elmo_> -3 ABI didn't include mptbase modules in a udeb
[04:26] <Keybuk> why isn't noinotify the default if people can't even log in? :-/
[04:26] <elmo_> it didn't get a chance to be detected
[04:26] <Kamion> elmo_: not true for all -3 ABI
[04:26] <elmo_> -4 ABI seems to have just gone for =y 
[04:26] <Kamion> elmo_: this is ABI-orthogonal
[04:26] <pitti> Keybuk: blame lamont :-)
[04:26] <Keybuk> pitti: I always do; is this his fault too?
[04:26] <elmo_> okay, forget ABI I'm just too lazy to remember l-s-2.6.10 version numbers
[04:26] <lamont> elmo_: CONFIG_FUSION=m on all the configs I see for ia64
[04:27] <zul> blame inotify
[04:27] <pitti> *chuckle*
[04:27] <Kamion> elmo_: it got built in temporarily, then I added hotpluggification, it was supposed to have been modularised again
[04:27] <pitti> Keybuk: I mean lamont should disable it by default in the next kernel
[04:27] <elmo_> ok, maybe I'm on smack, ignore me for now, I'll try and get a shell at some point
[04:27] <pitti> Keybuk: he did not mess up the inotify patch if you mean that :-)
[04:27] <lamont> -17 made it builtin, -20 made it a module again
[04:27] <Keybuk> who messed up the inotify patch?
[04:28] <lamont> (and broken until d-i fixes their stuff...)
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: upstream patch :-)
[04:28] <lamont> Keybuk: zul was doing inotify stuff, iirc
[04:28] <Kamion> lamont: meh what?
[04:28] <lamont> but it's from upstream
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: however, it crashed the box from time to time even with older kernels
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: did you never encounter this?
[04:28] <Keybuk> yeah, I actually investigated the crashers this morning
[04:28] <Keybuk> found I tended to see them when disconnecting USB devices
[04:28] <tseng> only ever noticed on battery
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: exactly
[04:29] <pitti> tseng: well, it was fairly heisenbuggish
[04:29] <pitti> Keybuk: in particular it worked if there was still a nautilus window open for that device
[04:29] <Keybuk> so I now have noapic and nonotify
[04:29] <Keybuk> can we have a nobugs kernel option? :p
[04:30] <pitti> Keybuk: no"i"notify please
[04:30] <Keybuk> pitti: typo here, got it right in the boot line\
[04:30] <pitti> ok
[04:30] <zul> Keybuk: sure...but then again 
[04:30] <Kamion> $ dpkg -c scsi-modules-2.6.10-4-itanium-smp-di_2.6.10-23_ia64.udeb | grep mpt
[04:30] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root    126066 2005-02-23 06:10:36 ./lib/modules/2.6.10-4-itanium-smp/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptbase.ko
[04:30] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root     98645 2005-02-23 06:10:36 ./lib/modules/2.6.10-4-itanium-smp/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptscsih.ko
[04:30] <Kamion> elmo_: ^-
[04:30] <dholbach> i guess there'll be an option in reportbug soon, like:  [6]  blame-inotify
[04:31] <Keybuk> "iz inotify bug"
[04:31] <Keybuk> ah, I can log in; so I shall be nice. and use lubricant :p
[04:31] <elmo_> Kamion: okay, sorry, clearly I'm stupid, but why do I see the mpt stuff as part of the initial boot then?
[04:31] <Kamion> elmo_: maybe it's in the initrd?
[04:33] <Keybuk> wasn't inotify something jdub advocated?
[04:33] <Keybuk> that explains it
[04:33] <thom> harsh, dude
[04:34] <Kamion> Keybuk: bingo
[04:34] <Kamion> thom: ... but fair
[04:34] <Keybuk> when mdz gets back, I'm adding a new step to seed changes
[04:34] <Keybuk> "Did jdub suggest this?  ...  REJECT!"
[04:34] <thom> Keybuk: he is back
[04:35] <elmo_> OH!
[04:35] <elmo_> gar, rsync -e ssh fails HORRIBLY when the remote end is -ENOSPC
[04:35] <Mithrandir> elmo_: yes, it does.  Just goes on and on and on.
[04:35] <Kamion> good, isn't it
[04:36] <elmo_> not so much, no 
[04:36] <Kamion> "couldn't make a directory. Oh, what the hell, let's try a few more in case it was just having a laugh. No? Well, I didn't have anything else to do today anyway ..."
[04:37] <Kamion> I think somebody compiled rsync with -DWHATEVER
[04:38] <elmo_> haha
[04:38] <lamont> mdz is back?
[04:38] <elmo_> hmm, crappy parted won't allow me to set 'raid' on ppc, even in hoary
[04:38] <pitti> lamont: yes
[04:39] <Kamion> elmo_: indeed, that's why we need new parted for that; have to go to the shops now but will merge when I get back
[04:39] <elmo_> Kamion: ah, sorry I thought you said partman
[04:40] <Kamion> nah, it's a parted thing; dunno if it requires partman changes too, hope (and think) not
[04:40] <elmo_> I wonder how the hell I got davis using sw raid
[04:40] <Kamion> the thing is that there's no actual standard way to represent a RAID partition on Mac partition tables
[04:41] <Kamion> you can put whatever you like in the partition type (it's a string) and mdadm etc. will accept it I think, but parted didn't know that
[04:41] <Kamion> ditto for LVM
[04:41] <elmo_> ah
[04:41] <Kamion> Sven made it use Linux_RAID and Linux_LVM types in parted 1.6.21-1 or so, which were just made up on the spot basically but should work
[04:41] <elmo_> 4        954.660  78533.437              untitled              
[04:41] <elmo_> apparently I put .. absolutely nothing :)
[04:41] <lamont> Kamion: outside of the inotify love, are we ready to roll linux-meta, you think?
[04:42] <Kamion> you can probably create a RAID partition by hand if you use 'C' (or whatever it is to select the type by hand) and say Linux_RAID
[04:42] <Kamion> lamont: already done that this morning :)
[04:42] <lamont> woot
[04:42] <lamont> well.. wo*inotify*ot
[04:42] <Kamion> haha
[04:42] <lamont> hrm.. need variable fonts
[04:42] <TreadingSoftly> has anyone else found gnome/kde prone to freezing up Ubuntu shortly after starting, subsequent to dist-upgrade today?
[04:43] <lamont> TreadingSoftly: boot with noinotify
[04:43] <lamont> or something like that.. :-)
[04:45] <TreadingSoftly> lamont: how to i do that, and what will it break (and will i be able to turn it on again later)?
[04:45] <elmo_> mdadm: error opening /dev/md0: No such file or directory
[04:45] <elmo_> eh?
[04:45] <pitti> TreadingSoftly: s/anyone else/everybody/ :-)
[04:46] <TreadingSoftly> pitti: that's oddly comforting :)
[04:46] <lamont> TreadingSoftly: pretty sure it's a matter of overriding the boot parms in grub, and it reverts a change back to the non-lethal version
[04:46] <Mithrandir> elmo_: this is the problem of udev and md -- the device isn't created before the kernel is told about it, and the kernel isn't told about it before it's started.
[04:46] <Mithrandir> elmo_: you can just mknod it manually, afaik
[04:46] <lamont> TreadingSoftly: or just boot yesterday's kernel
[04:47] <elmo_> Mithrandir: score
[04:47] <lamont> -24 should have things changed
[04:47] <TreadingSoftly> lamont: ah, will that automatically be the second kernel in the grub list?
[04:47] <Mithrandir> elmo_: it's know upstream and will be fixed by having the kernel provide something mdadm can twiddle to make the devices appear, but it's not there yet, AIUI.
[04:47] <lamont> should be
[04:48] <elmo_> Mithrandir: isn't that going to entirely kill root raid for the installer?
[04:48] <TreadingSoftly> lamont: cheers, i'll try that
[04:48] <Mithrandir> elmo_: mm... depends, I think.  the installer uses devfs, and that's fine somehow, I think.
[04:49] <elmo_> hmm, my klogd isn't
[04:50] <dholbach> dredg: uploaded you gaim-encryption package *woohoo!*
[04:51] <TreadingSoftly> hmm when i booted with the recovery kernel, gnome starts loading but then gives up before populating the menus and freezing
[04:52] <TreadingSoftly> s/freezing/freezes
[04:53] <lamont> TreadingSoftly: one revision of kernel down?
[04:53] <lamont> == not recovery kernel
[04:53] <TreadingSoftly> lamont: just twigged that might be the case: trying that
[04:54] <TreadingSoftly> trying 2.6.10-3-386
[04:55] <lamont> that'd be the one you want
[04:55] <lamont> 2.6.10-4-* has the inotify issues
[04:56] <TreadingSoftly> lamont: thanks ... 2.6.10-3 seems to work ... touch wood :)
[05:27] <mdz> lamont: yes
[05:28] <lamont> mdz: writing email
[05:29] <elmo_> Kamion: gar, ybin overrides my custom boot-device setting :(
[05:34] <dholbach> bbl
[05:37] <pitti> Morning mdz 
[05:38] <zul> hi mdz
[05:39] <Mitario> cya mvo
[05:45] <lamont> mdz: mail sent, summarizing the discussion between pitti and I todate
[05:46] <lamont> mdz: the only thing missing from the mail is that elmo is working on setting up the test archive so that we can do full-rebuild-testing of hoary on an ongoing basis.  Sadly, it seems other more-urgent tasks keep landing on his plate.
[05:47] <pitti> mdz, lamont: err: cyrus-sasl is in main for warty
[05:47] <mdz> ok, it's about 11229th in order in my mailbox
[05:48] <mdz> pitti: :-(
[05:48] <lamont> pitti: not the binaries.. :-)
[05:48] <pitti> mdz, lamont: right, no debs, but still the source is seeded
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: Kamion and I already agreed to drop cyrus-sasl from the seeds for Hoary
[05:49] <mdz> lamont: libsasl7 and sasl-bin are in main
[05:49] <mdz> for hoary anyway
[05:49] <lamont> zgrep 'Package: cyrus-sasl' dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz
[05:49] <lamont> Package: cyrus-sasl2
[05:49] <lamont> cyrus-sasl2 != cyrus-sasl
[05:50] <lamont> zgrep 'Package: cyrus-sasl' dists/warty/universe/source/Sources.gz
[05:50] <lamont> Package: cyrus-sasl
[05:50] <lamont> pitti: if it had been main, I'd have cared more before release...
[05:51] <elmo_> cyrus-sasl doesn't have any binaries in warty, at all
[05:51] <lamont> elmo_: right
[05:51] <lamont> nor is the source in main
[05:51] <pitti> right
[05:51] <tseng> lamont: hm whats the assertion?
[05:52] <lamont> tseng: I assert that cyrus-sasl was a universe package in warty, not a main package.
[05:52] <lamont> cyrus-sasl2, otoh...
[05:52] <tseng> ah, right.
[05:53] <elmo_> boggle
[05:53] <lamont> elmo_: FTBFS, conflicting build-deps
[05:53] <lamont> universe --> never resolved
[05:53] <elmo_> no, I'm boggling at something having created /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf
[05:54] <pitti> lamont: oh right, I mixed that up with a different library I recently stumbled upon, sorry
[05:54] <lamont> elmo_: btw, please make sure that the test archive has warty in it too - I'd like to get a handle on how bad the warty/universe buildability thang really is
[05:55] <elmo_> lamont: eh, do we have  to?
[05:55] <elmo_> there's nothing we can do about it now
[05:55] <lamont> elmo_: I understand that sabdfl is adding 3 hours between 02:00 and 02:00:01 tonight for you  :-)
[05:55] <elmo_> might as well just deal with them as they come up
[05:56] <lamont> elmo_: well, it'd be nice to know
[05:56] <lamont> on the bright side, we'd only have to run that suite _once_. :-)
[05:57] <seb128> is the daily's amd64 livecd known to be broken ? It doesn't start xorg and hangs on the message saying there is probably a config error
[05:57] <lamont> seb128: it's pronounced 'inotify'
[05:57] <seb128> hum
[05:57] <seb128> inotify is already used at this point ?
[05:57] <lamont> try adding 'nonotify' to the kernel args
[05:57] <tseng> has been for awhile
[05:58] <seb128> on my standard install that hangs when gamin starts, ie on the desktop
[05:58] <lamont> it's re-enabled in the 2.6.10-4 abi
[05:58] <lamont> or rather, the newest patch went into -4, and broke itself
[05:59] <seb128> yeah, I've noticed, it crashes when gamin start :p
[06:02] <elmo_> ok, partitioning in readline mode is painful
Kamion: fix that, kthxbye</elmo-mode>
[06:07] <Mithrandir> elmo_: _ew_
[06:07] <Mithrandir> elmo_: I think you might be the first person to ever have done that with partman
[06:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the installer does not use devfs
[06:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oh, true.
[06:21] <Kamion> elmo_: udev should create /dev/md0 anyway, but then again mdadm should be looking for /dev/md/0 in a udev world; do you have /.dev?
[06:22] <elmo_> yes, I copied it from there
[06:22] <elmo_> I'm trying root raid now, on a different machine
[06:22] <Kamion> elmo_: root RAID works fine in the installer for me, or did after I made a couple of fixes ...
[06:23] <Kamion> elmo_: oh, hang on, only /dev/md/0 in the installer probably - dunno
[06:23] <Kamion> yeah, it's /dev/md0 in the real system
[06:24] <Kamion> elmo_: you might need to use --auto=yes to mdadm
[06:25] <sivang> seb128: do you still have the netowrk-admin bug that dropps the auto in interfaces file? (I didn't know what ended with it, went away after we talked)
[06:25] <elmo_> Kamion: when?
[06:26] <Kamion> elmo_: on create
[06:26] <elmo_> Kamion: the problem I was having earlier I solved by mknod-ing (well cp -a, but who's counting) as mithrandir suggested
[06:27] <Kamion> basically /dev/md0 should always exist, at the moment it's the hook that mdadm uses to create all the other devices from
[06:27] <Kamion> elmo_: did you have the relevant modules loaded? dm-mod is the relevant one I think
[06:27] <elmo_> Kamion: I tried mod-probing 'raid1' but it didn't create any devices
[06:27] <Kamion> hm, yes, same here
[06:28] <Kamion> weird, that worked for me in the installer
[06:30] <seb128> sivang: ? I've not worked to fix it
[06:44] <elmo_> ARGH
[06:44] <elmo_> I forgot 'server' and now the damn thing is INSTALLING THE WORLD on a headless buildd.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> how.. useful
[06:44] <Kamion> mjg59: rock, sleep works perfectly now
[06:45] <Kamion> although, wow, icons are fucked, I guess that's the big-endian issue with the icon cache
[06:45] <lamont> Kamion: we need a ubuntu-antidesktop that Conflicts: withe everything brought in by desktop and not base. :-)
[06:46] <Kamion> lamont: ew :)
[06:46] <elmo_> /dev/md0 on / type ext3 (rw,noatime,errors=remount-ro)
[06:46] <lamont> Kamion: just for elmo, mind you. :0
[06:46] <elmo_> sweet
[06:46] <lamont> elmo_: Nice
[06:47] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, cool
[06:47] <mjg59> So it's Martin's machine that has problems for some reason
[06:48] <mjg59> elmo_: If you could test that kernel at some point, that would be sweet
[06:48] <mjg59> Then I'll push in the swsusp support
[06:48] <elmo_> mjg59: will do, it's just my only machine right now, so it'll need to be later this evening or so
[06:48] <mjg59> elmo_: Yeah, that's no problem
[06:49] <lamont> mjg59: is this with the last round of patches you sent me?
[06:49] <mjg59> lamont: Yup
[06:49] <lamont> and do we know how well sleep should work on vaios?
[06:49] <mjg59> The Vaios I've (personally) tested work. I can't give a general answer.
[06:49] <mjg59> But there ought to be a decent chance
[06:50] <elmo_> does grub support SW RAID now?
[06:50] <elmo_> pitti: !
[06:51] <elmo_> pitti: I've found what looks like a super obvious candidate for de-rooting
[06:51] <Treenaks> elmo_: grub does, grub-update seems to barf on /dev/md stuff (at least, in warty)
[06:51] <elmo_> Treenaks: ok, cool
[06:51] <Treenaks> elmo_: but I hacked it into submission (in an ugly way), now it boots from RAID1 just fine :)
[06:52] <Kamion> update-grub got fixed post-warty
[06:52] <Kamion> but it's still a bit dodgy
[06:52] <elmo_> ok, elilo obviously does
[06:52] <Kamion> grub-installer (I think) sets the wrong root device by default
[06:52] <elmo_> oh, and yaboot uses a separate partition, so that's cool
[06:52] <elmo_> duh, so does elilo, -ESOSTUPID
[06:52] <Kamion> it translates /dev/md0 to (hd0,0), which is wrong; it needs to use one of the underlying devices
[06:53] <Kamion> but you can sort that out from the grub boot menu, and fix it in menu.lst
[06:53] <elmo_> Kamion: even in hoary?
[06:53] <Kamion> elmo_: yes, this was in one of my recent tests
[06:53] <elmo_> ok
[06:54] <Kamion> elmo_: d'oh, I think the parted lvm/raid fixes for powerpc aren't in current Debian after all; maybe I was too enthusiastic about trying to encourage svenl to give us something stable for sarge
[06:57] <T-Bone> hey!
[06:58] <Kamion> hi T-Bone
[06:58] <Kamion> T-Bone: current daily should have the mptscsih fix
[06:58] <T-Bone> Kamion: woot! Can't wait to rsync it then :)
[07:01] <elmo_> Kamion: it does
[07:01] <elmo_> that /dev/md0 / box is an ia64 with mpt :)
[07:01] <T-Bone> elmo_: yay, that rocks
[07:01] <Kamion> bonus
[07:02] <T-Bone> so we can at last announce ia64 proper install support, or is that still a bit too early? :)
[07:02] <Kamion> I'd like to at least have us try that OOo hack first
[07:02] <T-Bone> heh
[07:03] <elmo_> ugh, I hate how /etc/network/interfaces depends on hotplug support now
[07:03] <elmo_> it's eeeeeeeeeeeevil
[07:03] <T-Bone> hell yes :P
[07:03] <elmo_> or rather automatic upping of interfaces depends on it
[07:13] <mdz> this australian ETA web service is sketch-o-riffic
[07:13] <mdz> "please enter your credit card details, and then we'll give you a chance to ask for what you want"
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: any idea why 'apt-get update' might kill /var/lib/apt/lists/<cdrom disk label>_dists_unstable_Release.gpg when the CD isn't available?
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: it leaves _Release there just fine, but helpfully kills _Release.gpg so that everything shows up as unauthenticated
[07:16] <mdz> Kamion: it cleans everything in lists that it doesn't understand
[07:16] <mdz> unless the variable is set which tells it not to do so
[07:16] <mdz> probably that bit of code needs to be taught about .gpg for CD-ROM sources
[07:17] <Kamion> I tried setting APT::Get::List-Cleanup, didn't seem to work
[07:17] <Kamion> er, setting it to false
[07:17] <Kamion> trying it again now
[07:22] <Kamion> nope, didn't do the trick
[07:23] <mdz> weird
[07:25] <mxpxpod> jbailey: you there?
[07:31] <Kamion> "the King of Weird dropped by and knighted Evolution" <- heh :)
[07:32] <thully> hi - what's the status of KDE going into main?  I'm really anxious for this (and would love to be able to download a DVD iso w/KDE and GNOME on it)
[07:32] <Kamion> mdz: very easily reproducible; 'apt-cdrom add' some signed CD, watch *_Release.gpg appear, 'apt-get update', watch it disappear
[07:33] <Kamion> thully: pending a few security reviews I believe
[07:34] <thully> will it be soon? 
[07:35] <Kamion> it's not on my plate, so I don't know
[07:35] <thully> it will be for hoary, though - right?
[07:35] <Kamion> I don't think "are we there yet"-ing it will help :)
[07:35] <Kamion> that is the intention
[07:36] <thully> Also - I know weekly dvds are built now - any way these could be done for array releases on weeks with array releases
[07:37] <sivang> welcome back mdz, at home alrady? :)
[07:38] <Kamion> thully: only once I have better bandwidth so that I can actually test them before releasing them
[07:38] <Kamion> that is planned soon
[07:39] <pitti> elmo_: I'm back, what is it?
[07:42] <elmo_> pitti: mdadm runs as root, simply to poll a world readable /proc file
[07:42] <pitti> elmo_: mdadm -F you mean?
[07:43] <dholbach> re
[07:43] <pitti> elmo_: cool, indeed
[07:43] <pitti> elmo_: I'm using that on my server, too.
[07:43] <mdz> sivang: yes
[07:43] <pitti> elmo_: nice idea, thanks
[07:43] <mdz> Kamion: the only surprising part is that it still happens with list-cleanup=false
[07:48] <Kamion> mdz: oh, it leaves it in /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/
[07:49] <mdz> Kamion: apt-get update does?
[07:49] <mdz> or apt-cdrom?
[07:49] <Kamion> mdz: apt-get update
[07:49] <mdz> Kamion: has mvo looked at it?  I'm buried
[07:50] <Kamion> mdz: no, I've only just noticed it
[07:50] <mdz> Kamion: sounds like maybe fallout from the fix for #4769
[07:50] <Kamion> I'll file a bug
[07:58] <ogra> argl.... 
[07:58] <ogra> seb128 ?
[07:59] <sivang> mdz, Kamion : how hard will it be to produce an installer cd of current hoary snapshot that already containes the hebrew transaltions and support packages? (as compared to the livecd way which seems easy and straight forward)
[08:00] <Kamion> #6865 filed
[08:01] <Kamion> sivang: I'll try to produce documentation at some point along the lines of the live CD customisation document; it's not that hard
[08:02] <sivang> Kamion: if you'd like, I'd b interested in doing that, so you can toss me the basic part, I will trial the instructions and add comments there.
[08:02] <sivang> Kamion: (am not talking about the preseeding, stuff, there is also docs for that)
[08:04] <Kamion> yeah, I realise that
[08:04] <Kamion> can't be today, though, I'm finishing up soon
[08:05] <sivang> Kamion: sure, I'll try catching you up tommorow then :)
[08:05] <elmo_> Kamion: uh, you know  about how you get prompted for language packs 'cos they're unauthenticated, right?
[08:05] <sivang> Kamion: s/also/already/
[08:06] <Kamion> elmo_: that's what I was talking about with mdz above; #6865
[08:06] <elmo_> oic
[08:34] <mjg59> Good god, it links
[08:41] <ari> common misconception
[08:43] <seb128> ogra: pong ?
[08:44] <ogra> sb128: is there any list of upcoming pygtk deprecations ? its quite annoying to program in a language that changes the syntax every two weeks
[08:45] <ogra> seb128 ^
[08:51] <seb128_> ogra: 
 ogra: what language change every 2 weeks ?
[08:51] <seb128_> --- Disconnected ().
[08:51] <ogra> seb128: for example: GtkDeprecationWarning: gtk.FALSE is deprecated, use False instead
[08:51] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, the earlier the better I think
[08:52] <lamont> Kamion: was gonna work on getting -24 (with inotify disabled again) in first...
[08:52] <Kamion> lamont++
[08:52] <seb128_> ogra: I was expecting this reply
[08:52] <seb128_> ogra: first that's one change, it doesn't change that much
[08:52] <ogra> seb128: i think at least one of these is in every pygtk upgrade currently....(last time it was gnomecanvas)
[08:52] <seb128_> ogra: second this still works fine, that only display a warning
[08:53] <seb128_> ogra: third you use a devel branch
[08:53] <seb128_> ogra: what's the point to a gtk.FALSE and gtk.TRUE where python has a boolean ?
[08:53] <ogra> seb128_: i know :) it would just be fine to have an overview...a list or something, to be prepared....
[08:54] <Treenaks> ogra: there is: pygtk-devel :P
[08:54] <lamont> Kamion: the fun part is going to be the exim-hunt in main.. :-)
[08:54] <seb128_> ogra: there is no such list
[08:54] <ogra> Treenaks: when do i read that one ?
[08:54] <seb128_> ogra: I don't get your issue, just s/gtk.TRUE/True/
[08:54] <Treenaks> ogra: what I meant was: the development mailinglist for pygtk
[08:55] <ogra> seb128_: ok, thanks then.... i'll live with it, would just have been nice
[08:55] <seb128_> ogra: these function are still working, there is no breakage
[08:55] <ogra> seb128_: i dont like warnings in my programs :)
[08:55] <seb128_> don't use devel branch
[08:56] <ogra> heh
[08:56] <seb128_> or accept the changes
[08:56] <ogra> i do
[08:56] <seb128_> that's a working branch
[08:56] <seb128_> BTW what are you coding ? :)
[08:56] <ogra> seb128_: i was only asking if you know about such a list....
[08:56] <seb128_> nop, you can ask on #pygtk @ irc.gnome.org
[08:56] <ogra> seb128_: hwdb-client and the hal-device-manager changes for it
[08:57] <seb128_> but I don't think there is a list of planned deprecated stuff
[08:57] <seb128_> k
[08:57] <ogra> (adding one button)
[08:57] <Kamion> woo, network-kickseed nearly works
[08:58] <lamont> Kamion: woot!
[08:58] <Kamion> can preseed the root password over the network, yay security ;)
[08:58] <lamont> Go Kamion !!
[08:59] <Kamion> lamont: I might ask for nfs-modules.udeb at some point, for better kickstart support
[09:00] <lamont> Kamion: either tonight, or next week.  'k?
[09:00] <Kamion> let's make it next week then :)
[09:01] <lamont> goal for today is a -pre24 branch with all our changes in before 0700UTC today
[09:01] <lamont> er, tomorrow
[09:01] <zul> today?!! :)
[09:01] <Kamion> lamont: oh, "exim-hunt in main"?
[09:02] <lamont> Kamion: Recommends/Depends: exim[4]  | mail-transport-agent --> R/D: postfix | mail-transport-agent
[09:02] <Kamion> ah
[09:02] <lamont> be vewy quiet.  we're hunting exim.
[10:01] <mdz> lamont: so about the MTA proposal...
[10:01] <lamont> mdz: yeah
[10:02] <lamont> ...
[10:02] <mdz> have you started uploading things yet?
[10:02] <lamont> pop-con a few weeks back
[10:03] <mdz> cron/at/anacron are the only ones that really give me the creeps
[10:03] <lamont> today was some buildd maintenance after elmos tasks, then kernel prep for -24, so we can test it tomorrow.  Then I was going to work on the uploads for postfix moving
[10:03] <mdz> my gut feeling is that it is hoary+1 material
[10:04] <lamont> the notifier, or just the 'bitch about it' part of things?
[10:04] <mdz> the transition as a whole
[10:04] <mdz> we just aren't likely to have a lot of people testing this stuff without an MTA installed
[10:04] <lamont> true
[10:05] <lamont> can I have my local/internethost/... question back to kill the postfix-is-br0ken complaints???
[10:05] <mdz> that is almost certain to receive a sabdfl veto
[10:05] <lamont> well, yeah
[10:06] <lamont> that was _my_ motivator for ripping my baby out of base.
[10:07] <lamont> and remind me to throw things at jdub :-P
[10:07] <zul> be my guest
[10:07] <mdz> lamont: I absolutely agree that it is the right way to go
[10:07] <lamont> mdz: it would be nice to at least go on the exim-hunt, though, in preparation.
[10:08] <lamont> well, except that'll be easier with lunchpad
[10:08] <mdz> we should have done it at the start of the Hoary cycle, but it wasn't raised at the kickoff meeting
[10:08] <lamont> mdz: please place it at the top of the agenda for hoary+1, then... :-)
[10:08] <mdz> it's on my list
[10:08] <lamont> woot
[10:09] <mdz> it's scheduled for part of a BOF in Sydney
[10:09] <lamont> awesome
[10:10] <mdz> preview is in 2 weeks :-O
[10:10] <lamont> do we get new artwork with the preview this time??? :-)
[10:10] <lamont> I mean, if not, we have to do something for hte controversy... :-)
[10:11] <mdz> we should have the beginnings of some new artwork, but it is unlikely to be as controversial
[10:13] <lamont> mail sent
[10:13] <mdz> thanks
[10:13] <mdz> it pains me, but we have to be pragmatic at this stage
[10:13] <zul> bbl
[10:15] <mdz> thom: ping?
[10:20] <Goshawk> maybe it is off-topic: does somebody know a way to read from tty1 ? do i treat tty1 as a normal file?
[10:21] <smurfix> Goshawk: It is. #ubuntu please.
[10:24] <mdz> jdub: ping, re: gnome-app-install
[10:27] <mako> Kamion: around?
[10:28] <Nafallo> is hwdb-gui supposed to do something atm? :-)
[10:28] <ogra> nope
[10:28] <ogra> Nafallo: not as long as hwdb-qa is missing....
[10:29] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/hwdb_schema.png
[10:29] <herzi> any1 on ppc around?
[10:29] <Nafallo> ogra: nice :-)
[10:30] <herzi> > dpkg -L hicolor-icon-theme | grep png\$ | wc -l >>>>> 0
[10:30] <herzi> can any1 verify this?
[10:34] <robtaylor> seb128: do you know anying about gstreamer stuff in hoary randomly complaining that /dev/dsp is already in use? its a little odd as this even happens when i configure my gstreamer sink/src to alsa :/
[10:35] <elmo_> dear gaim/glib/gnome/whoever upstream, please stop breaking stuff on powerpc, some of us only have powerpc desktops available.  kthxbye.  love, james
[10:36] <robtaylor> seb128: even odder as noone has /dev/dsp open =)
[10:36] <mdz> dear ppc users, please file bugs, thx
[10:36] <elmo_> there are bugs?
[10:37] <seb128> no
[10:37] <herzi> mdz: of which kinds of bugs are you tlking?
[10:37] <seb128> there is the icon cache issue
[10:37] <seb128> but out of this
[10:37] <herzi> seb128: how do i solve it?
[10:37] <seb128> robtaylor: use esound
[10:37] <herzi> or which number is it
[10:37] <seb128> herzi: solve what ?
[10:37] <robtaylor> seb128: i.e. polypaudio is borken?
[10:37] <herzi> "the icon cache issue"
[10:38] <ogra> herzi: reverse the endian order of your cpu
[10:38] <seb128> rm /usr/share/icons/*/icon-theme.cache
[10:38] <herzi> ogra: bll
[10:38] <seb128> ogra: that's not an endian issue
[10:38] <seb128> ogra: that's a g_stat/compiler issue
[10:38] <ogra> oh, ok
[10:39] <herzi> seb128: does the hicolor-icon-theme contain ANY images?
[10:44] <seb128> herzi: no, that's a tree
[10:44] <seb128> themes put images in it
[10:44] <herzi> ahja
[10:46] <ari> is the ubuntu xorg repository up on the web anywhere
[10:47] <herzi> ari: the sources are there
[10:47] <herzi> apt-get source xorg
[10:47] <ari> i just want a couple files
[10:47] <herzi> seb128: http://www.blaubeermuffin.de/images/missing-images.png
[10:48] <herzi> ari: which ones?
[10:48] <ari> dunno, whatever i need to get it to build on amd64
[10:48] <herzi> build to a deb or just build?
[10:49] <ari> just build
[10:49] <seb128> robtaylor: some people have issues with it
[10:50] <seb128> herzi: <seb128> rm /usr/share/icons/*/icon-theme.cache
[10:52] <robtaylor> seb128: ah, actually now i've set my gstreamer sink/src back to esd and use that with polypaudio, evreythings fine.
[10:52] <mdz> ogra: ping, re: hwdb
[10:52] <ogra> pong
[10:52] <mdz> ogra: I just tried hwdb-gui; it looks very nice but doesn't get very far
[10:52] <robtaylor> polypaudio really is much better than esd, cool :)
[10:52] <seb128> how ?
[10:52] <mdz> ogra: I get the first informational screen, then click Forward, and I get a mostly-empty window with an icon at the top
[10:52] <robtaylor> i can play a dvd without the sound skipping :)
[10:53] <robtaylor> which was ehy i was using alsasink and dmix before
[10:53] <ogra> mdz: not yet... it will only be a xml viewer to be reused in other projects.... the backend is hwdb-qa 
[10:53] <ogra> mdz: http://www.grawert.net/hwdb_schema.png
[10:54] <ogra> mdz: -qa is not ready yet....working on it
[10:54] <Nafallo> that icon was a small red x I hope?
[11:03] <mdz> ogra: I see, thanks
[11:03] <mdz> Nafallo: yes
[11:12] <zul> hey
[11:25] <elmo_> uh
[11:27] <mdz> jdub: ping, re: gnome-app-install
[11:30] <justdave> did usplash ever come back, or is that still a work in progress?
[11:30] <elmo_> I managed to download an entirely corrupt ISO across our LAN.  score.
[11:30] <YokoZar> ogra: ping
[11:30] <ogra> yup
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: did you make archive-copier smart about the installation DVD?
[11:30] <mdz> justdave: deferred to hoary+1
[11:31] <YokoZar> I haven't been on IRC in a while, but I wanted to know if you've combed through my Wine packages at all and if they're fit for Universe
[11:31] <elmo_> our iso's should have the md5sum in the filename
[11:31] <ogra> YokoZar: i wrote a mail about it to the ML
[11:32] <YokoZar> ah, found it
[11:33] <YokoZar> Ok.  Two things: 1) The only other person active on the Ubuntu lists that knows a lot about Wine is I believe Mike Hearn, who has endorsed my packages (as have the Ubuntu backports users).  No package depends on Wine yet (except Winetools, which I maintain separately and isn't in Universe)  2) I'd like to be on the MOTU team to review it :)
[11:34] <ogra> YokoZar: you know that i know about both ;)#
[11:35] <dholbach> YokoZar: maybe the newly installed package review squad will be able to help you there
[11:36] <ogra> YokoZar: we have two new reviewers now ...
[11:37] <YokoZar> It's not terribly critical at the moment, though I would like to get on their agenda.  Which is why I've been doing other Wine work in the meantime rather than parading around the channel.  Once we get a Wine release out that runs Half Life 2, though (soon, possibly after Hoary released), it'd be cool to update universe.
[11:41] <ogra> YokoZar: ...for me this package introduces a to big change currently, which in my opinion should get mentored by a very experienced developer, the new reviewers Treenaks and Mithrandir can probably help out... but it is also the general decision about moving away completely from debians package structure that scares me a bit... this is a topic big enough i would rather  ask jdub or mdz for 
[11:41] <YokoZar> hmm
[11:42] <YokoZar> Yeah there may be political ramifications that I'm sure you're not too happy about.  Maybe it'll all go away if Ove decides to give up maintainership.
[11:42] <ajmitch> not just political, also pragmatic for people who want to migrate from debian->ubuntu
[11:43] <ajmitch> ogra: when doko reconnects yet again, tell him I had to run out for an hour or two, and will get back to zope later :)
[11:43] <ogra> ajmitch: k
[11:44] <Mithrandir> ogra: we should have a real discussion about whether completely changed packaging is ok -- I'm divided on it.
[11:45] <YokoZar> ajmitch: I designed the packages so it upgrades cleanly from the Debian ones
[11:45] <ajmitch> ogra: thanks :)
[11:45] <ogra> Mithrandir: i was always fearing the moment i would say the following....
[11:45] <ogra> Mithrandir: ....so we should have a MTU meeting then
[11:45] <ogra> MOTU even
[11:45] <Mithrandir> YokoZar: will it sidegrade to a new debian version too?
[11:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: we should schedule one, then. :)
[11:46] <ogra> gah
[11:46] <ogra> ok, i'll care :)
[11:46] <YokoZar> Mithrandir: Yes, unless you have the wine-dev package installed (the Debian one should put a replaces for it there)
[11:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'm in CET, but I'm in Brussels friday until monday, so I'd prefer it not to be then.
[11:47] <YokoZar> But no one uses wine-dev except wine developers at the moment, since winelib is kinda experimental
[11:47] <YokoZar> Or, rather, compiling with winelib.  I'm working on a package that depends on it, though, if I can get it to compile right.
[11:47] <ogra> Mithrandir: hmm, since Treenaks is at fosdem and i plan to come too, we should probably hold a short beermeeting there ;)
[11:48] <ogra> Mithrandir: but i think a #ubuntu-meeting meeting next week is early enough
[11:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: sure