[12:17] <jbailey> Mithrandir, ogra: Are you guys setting policy on what to do if a package in Universe is unrelated to the package in Debian?  We may have some Jav aones that fall into that category, since our Java policy is slightly different.
[12:17] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes, basically.  And also whether we want that at all to happen
[12:18] <ogra> jbailey: i think in case of java its slightly different (based on the policy difference), but similar....
[12:20] <jbailey> It's not hard to imagine a case where an MOTU isn't involved with Debian at all and uploads a package to universe and someone independantly packages it for Debian later, though.
[12:20] <Mithrandir> true enough
[12:21] <YokoZar> jbailey: this is actually highly likely, since it is really hard to get into Debian compared with Ubuntu
[12:22] <ogra> YokoZar: but DDs could pick your ubuntu package for a base of their packages....
[12:22] <ogra> s/for/as
[12:23] <jbailey> ogra: But there's no requirement on that side that they do so.  They might not even be aware that the package is in Ubuntu.
[12:23] <YokoZar> Not just on a user level but a developer level as well.  There's a very long process for getting a package into Debian, and it's impossible to do if there's an obstinate maintainer blocking your work for some unexplained reason.
[12:23] <ogra> jbailey: yup
[12:23] <jbailey> Yeah.  More than one name pops into mind of someone who's packages I would love to redo sanely. =)
[12:24] <YokoZar> Going through the Debian Intent to package, social contract, security signing, peer review, community application and such (provided there's no maintainer controlling your package already) is much harder than making a simple working package and forwarding it to Ogra :)
[12:25] <YokoZar> lamont: it was raining in Mojave yesterday.
[12:25] <lamont> which means it'll possibly rain here tomorrow. ok
[12:25] <ogra> YokoZar: true :)
[12:27] <jbailey> YokoZar: The current process does put alot more onus on the sponsors, but I'm already really strict for people whsoe packages I sponsor.  Not a big deal. =)
[12:28] <YokoZar> It does illustrate that the system heavily depends on the Debian maintainers still.  And when they're not updating packages, or there are significant usability problems with the ones they have (Wine), people like me are put in a bit of a bind.
[12:29] <daniels> lamont: you want to claim 6841? :)
[12:30] <ogra> YokoZar: no, your ptroblem isnt that you provide newer or up to date packages, but you step away from a given scheme where users, devs and apps may rely on....
[12:33] <YokoZar> ogra: True.  But it is backwards compatible
[12:34] <ogra> YokoZar: does it provide libwine-jack, -alsa, -capi, -print, -nas, -arts etc. ?
[12:35] <YokoZar> Yeah.  Wine automagically detects all that stuff now, and seperating it out just created confusion.  This was the consensus among the wine devs too - we were having way too many problems with Debian users with incomplete packages asking for support
[12:36] <YokoZar> It only saved like 20k of space by not having some of those drivers included (sometimes it wasn't even a savings of space, due to the changelog files)
[12:36] <ogra> YokoZar: so what about a package we eagerly want in ubuntu that was written for debian and that heavily depends on libwine-capi ?
[12:37] <ogra> (a hypothetic one)
[12:38] <YokoZar> There are no packages like that though.  libwine-capi is included in wine now anyway.  There are also no current packages which depend on libwine, and due to all the changes we're going through with Wine (like removing the configuration file) there's a need to upgrade wine anyway
[12:38] <YokoZar> All the libwine-capi file is is Ove seperating out the 20k or so Capi driver into a seperate package, so that Wine will fail mysteriously when a program calls for it and a user doesn't have it.
[12:54] <mdz> Kamion: still here?
[01:05] <bob2> so, netapplet is actually an applet now
[01:05] <bob2> how novel!
[01:42] <dholbach> i'm off to bed - bye
[01:44] <lupusBE> my system hangs in gnome when using the new 10-4 kernel
[01:44] <lupusBE> 10-3 works fine
[01:45] <lupusBE> any reports about this?
[01:45] <hawke> lupusBE: yes
[01:45] <lupusBE> is it been taking care off?
[01:46] <hawke> lupusBE: yes; temp. workaround: add "noinotify" to the kernel commandline
[01:49] <YokoZar> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9793
[01:52] <lupusBE> I just booted the 10-3 kernel so :)
[01:53] <hawke> lupusBE: that works too
[01:55] <zenrox_> lupusBE,  the 10-4 kernel frezzes my sys after a random amount of time
[02:00] <lupusBE> :)
[02:01] <zenrox> its weird
[02:03] <hawke> zenrox: have you tried adding 'noinotify' to your kernel commandline?
[02:03] <hawke> assuming you're all about using 10-4
[02:15] <zenrox> hawke,  naw ill wate till it gets fixed
[03:01] <zul> hey
[03:08] <zul> ummmm...what is minipatch.diff doing in the main kernel directory when i do apt-get source?
[03:39] <pvh> I just installed my new DVD drive, and it didn't create an entry in fstab. Is that a bug?
[03:39] <HrdwrBoB> no
[03:39] <pvh> (Is that nor, or enh?)
[03:39] <HrdwrBoB> ubuntu does not use fstab for removeable devices
[03:39] <HrdwrBoB> stick a CD in it
[03:39] <HrdwrBoB> and it should use pmount to automount it
[03:40] <pvh> Hmm. Well, totem carps at me about not being able to mount /dev/hdc when I "Play Disc"
[03:40] <pvh> "Failed to find mountpoint for device /dev/hdc in /etc/fstab"
[03:41] <HrdwrBoB> that's a totem bug I think
[03:41] <pvh> Oh, yeah, my computer freezes hard whenever a USB device gets unmounted. That's the other one -- is that a known hoary problem?
[03:41] <pvh> (Regardless of whether I 'umount' or just unplug it.)
[03:42] <HrdwrBoB> pvh: what hardware
[03:42] <HrdwrBoB> ?
[03:42] <pvh> So far, three kinds of USB storage devices on both my laptop and desktop.
[03:42] <HrdwrBoB> pvh: also good to search on bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org
[03:43] <pvh> HrdwrBoB: I appreciate that, but I've never found any bug I've tried to report there. Either I stress things in strange ways, or I don't have the right vocabulary for searching.
[03:43] <zul> lamont: ping me when you get back
[03:47] <geppy> gstreamer0.8-jack is broken.
[03:47] <geppy> Is there anything I can do to help?
[03:47] <zul> yes you can open a bug report
[03:47] <geppy> There have been bug reports opened, but they were closed "so that gstreamer-plugins wouldn't be held up."
[03:48] <zul> geppy: you can check on #ubuntu-motu
[03:49] <geppy> What does the motu refer to?
[03:49] <ajmitch> masters of the universe
[03:49] <geppy> hahahahaha
[03:49] <geppy> Thanks. =)
[03:49] <ajmitch> aka the people who look after universe packages :)
[03:49] <geppy> hahaha =)
[03:50] <wasabi> I'm having some interesting pbuilder trouble I can't figure out.
[03:50] <wasabi> trying to build a package in it, and it's coming back saying a few dependencies are not authenticated
[03:50] <wasabi> apt-secure stuff... these deps are all in main. I'm not sure why they aren't authenticated
[03:51] <ajmitch> wasabi: perhaps gpg isn't in the pbuilder chroot
[03:51] <wasabi> oh, perhaps.
[03:51] <wasabi> seems like it should be!
[03:52] <ajmitch> I think that was fixed, but I'm not sure
[03:53] <wasabi> hahah
[03:53] <wasabi> gnupg can't be installed in the chroot
[03:53] <wasabi> because gnupg can't be authenticated. =)
[03:53] <ajmitch> I had that problem as well :)
[03:54] <wasabi> gnupg should be part of hte base system
[04:01] <wasabi> okay that doesn't even work
[04:17] <wasabi> okay so what does one do in apt.conf to disable authentication
[04:44] <lamont> jdub awake yet?
[04:58] <schweeb> hehe, xdesktopwaves with compmgr + opacity is pretty sweet
[05:11] <zul> hey
[05:12] <zul> lamont: ping
[05:14] <lamont> evening zul
[05:35] <calc> fabbione: any chance linux-image could get an updated ipw2200 (1.0.1) driver soon?
[05:35] <calc> the current one doesn't seem to work with 2915
[05:35] <zul> fabbione isnt here
[05:36] <calc> he may see the message when he comes back :)
[05:36] <calc> the one currently in the image is 0.19 from dec :\
[05:38] <zul> i can look into it but i cant guarantee anything though
[05:38] <calc> ok
[05:39] <calc> ah i didn't realize you worked on the ubuntu kernel as well :)
[05:39] <zul> im one of them
[05:40] <tseng> calc: he's just the fall guy
[05:41] <calc> heh
[05:41] <zul> tseng: today i am 
[05:42] <tseng> zul: so, inotify. fix
[05:42] <tseng> :D
[05:42] <zul> tseng: shut it :)
[05:45] <Amaranth> What's wrong with inotify?
[05:46] <zul> it sucks
[05:46] <Amaranth> Worse then dnotify? :)
[05:48] <zul> check bugzilla...night night
[06:09] <jdub> lamont: pong
[06:10] <lamont> jdub: so this inotify crack
[06:10] <lamont> for -24 we're kinda thinking of just disabling it by default, while the inotify crackheads work on it for -25... thoughts?
[06:11] <lamont> we _think_ we can do that without an abi event, while changing the driver almost certainly generates one.
[06:12] <lamont> that is, we're hoping to make it so you can boot with 'inotify' as a kernel parm and have inotify back in it's broken state.  Failing that, we'll just make it so that the default is 'noinotify' (although you can specify it to be sure...)
[06:20] <da_bon_bon> HEL!PP! update-manager cant download any files from archive.ubuntu.com.... nor can apt-get
[06:20] <da_bon_bon> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main python-glade2 2.5.4-0ubuntu2
[06:20] <da_bon_bon>   Got a single header line over 360 chars
[06:20] <da_bon_bon> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main python2.4-gtk2 2.5.4-0ubuntu2
[06:20] <da_bon_bon>   Bad header line
[06:20] <da_bon_bon> please help
[06:28] <jdub> lamont: agree
[06:28] <jdub> lamont: sorry, phone calls and so on
[06:30] <da_bon_bon> http://rafb.net/paste/results/e6dA0D46.html - someone pelase help - its urgent...
[06:34] <jba> da_bon_bon, word of adivice dude, no matter how urgent your support request is, asking for support in the devel channel will not elicite many helpful responses
[06:34] <jba> in the mean time, could be overloaded servers, bad proxy, or so on
[06:35] <da_bon_bon> jba: i thought that some developer might now whether the mirrors down or something
[06:35] <jba> da_bon_bon, I'm not actually a developer, so I can't help you in that respect
[06:35] <jba> just try it again sometime
[06:35] <da_bon_bon> ok. can u tri it out, so that i can confirm ?
[06:36] <lamont> jdub: np.
[06:37] <da_bon_bon> jba: also, everytime i try to dist-upgrade, it says some packages cudnt be authenticated, do u wanna continue ?
[06:38] <jba> da_bon_bon, I don't have my ubuntu system here with me
[06:38] <jba> I'm on windows dude sorry
[06:38] <jba> try getting someone in #ubuntu to help out
[06:38] <da_bon_bon> jba: ok, but can u give some ponters ?
[06:39] <jba> when i get those errors dude, I simply assume it's heavy network load and try it again another day
[06:39] <jba> can't do much more else than that dude, sorry
[06:40] <da_bon_bon> well, this happens 90% of the time i try updating
[06:47] <da_bon_bon> jba: worked!  just did apt-get clean headers
[06:48] <jba> da_bon_bon, some times it's the proxy caching the headers (if you have a poxying, nating firewall like ipcop or smoothwall)
[06:53] <da_bon_bon> jba: no proxy.. but apt-get clean headers doesnt remove the downloaded packages ?
[06:53] <da_bon_bon> or does it ?
[06:54] <jba> no i don't think it does
[06:55] <da_bon_bon> ok
[07:07] <lamont> jdub, mdz: if anyone's looking for me tomorrow, I'm stuck with .au-ish hours. (briefly around 1300UTC, then back on at 2300UTC-ish for the workday.)
[07:08] <jdub> night :)
[07:09] <jba> .au hours are the best in the world dude
[07:09] <AndyFitz> jba,  not wrong mate
[07:09] <AndyFitz> aside from when you have to work with people in .us
[07:09] <jba> aah thats what I like to see, an oss IRC channel with aussies in it
[07:09] <jba> AndyFitz, no, no. it's them that have to work with us ;)
[07:11] <AndyFitz> jba,  only because we are cheaper than chips
[07:12] <jba> mmm chips
[07:12] <jba> haha there's some guy in #ubuntu called woodywarty
[07:14] <jba> which suburb you in AndyFitz
[07:14] <jba> ?
[07:14] <AndyFitz> fortitude valley, brisbane
[07:14] <jba> aah.
[07:14] <jba> "the northern beaches"
[07:15] <jba> my outlaws are from brissy
[07:15] <Amaranth> damn aussies making me stay up late just to talk to you :P
[07:15] <AndyFitz> Amaranth,  its worth it tho isnt it ?
[07:16] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: Not at all, you guys just talk about fish and chips.
[07:16] <AndyFitz> jba,  lots of sydney guys here ive noticed 
[07:16] <Amaranth> :D
[07:17] <jba> i haven't, but then again I'm not in -devel too often
[07:17] <AndyFitz> aj,  im AndyFitz obviously :-P
[07:19] <AndyFitz> Amaranth,  I have to stay up late to talk to the scribus guys, its only fair someone has to do the reverse
[07:19] <pitti> Morning
[07:22] <pitti> elmo: squid sync, please (throwing away Ubuntu changes is alright)
[07:44] <da_bon_bon> is kde 3.4 in the repos ? of hoary ?
[07:50] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: no
[07:50] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: but on the kubuntu page, someone has written some guy has updated some 3.4 packages...
[08:57] <sid77> ciao
[09:11] <dholbach> good morning
[09:14] <pitti> hi dholbach 
[09:15] <dholbach> hai pitti!
[09:17] <d3vic3> lo dholbach 
[09:23] <dholbach> hi d3vic3 
[09:24] <ajmitch> evenign d3vic3, dholbach, pitti :)
[09:41] <dholbach> hai mvo!
[09:44] <dholbach> i'm looking at a hoary box of a friend; selecting gnome in gdm and logging in freezes her box completely, while kde is fine
[09:44] <dholbach> what do i have to disable to make it work?
[09:44] <Treenaks> dholbach: boot with noinotify
[09:44] <dholbach> that'd be all?
[09:44] <Treenaks> uh, afaik
[09:46] <mvo> hai dholbach, morning all
[09:46] <Treenaks> hey mvo
[09:47] <mvo> hi Treenaks 
[09:51] <thom> aaaargh! someone filed a bug about firefox not being session aware
[09:52] <thom> that one is so "UPSTREAM! RUN AWAY SCREAMING"
[09:53] <pitti> Hi mvo 
[09:55] <mvo> hi pitti 
[09:56] <ogra> moin
[09:56] <dholbach> hai ogra!
[09:56] <ogra> brrrr.....
[09:57] <Treenaks> hey ogra 
[09:58] <Treenaks> ogra: on purpose?
[09:58] <ogra> nope
[09:59] <ogra> ad the landlord inst here.... s i doubt it will get switsched on soon....
[09:59] <ogra> and....isnt
[09:59] <ogra> so
[09:59] <Treenaks> type a LOT..
[10:00] <ogra> gah....i need more letters....
[10:00] <Treenaks> oh and turn on some number-crunching CPU-time-eating stuff
[10:00] <ogra> heh
[10:00] <thom> nah, just buy an ia64
[10:01] <thom> much easier
[10:01] <dholbach> yeah, like python-transitioning vtk - compiling took me more than half an hour :-)
[10:01] <thom> morning pitti
[10:02] <pitti> Hi thom 
[10:02] <pitti> thom: actually I'm up for 3 hours now already :-)
[10:02] <pitti> smurfix: ping
[10:02] <smurfix> pong
[10:03] <smurfix> , even
[10:03] <ogra> thats pong ?
[10:03] <smurfix> Yep
[10:03] <ogra> you see me impressed :)
[10:03] <dholbach> cool
[10:04] <pitti> smurfix: is there any way to display the selected keyboard layout after your guesstimator has finished?
[10:04] <pitti> smurfix: so far I verified the choice only by typing some keys in a dialog box
[10:05] <smurfix> Yeah, go back and go to keyboard selection again
[10:05] <smurfix> The currently-chosen keyboard is on top
[10:05] <pitti> ah, ok
[10:05] <pitti> I actually tried that :-)
[10:05] <pitti> but I wasn't sure whether this was adapted, since German was my default choice anyway
[10:05] <pitti> smurfix: cool, thanks
[10:06] <smurfix> It is. It doesn't work if you change your language in the meantime, but that's an old bug in kbd-chooser.
[10:09] <sivang> Morning all!
[10:10] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[10:10] <pitti> Kamion: mdz asked me to remove raidtools2 from heartbeat, to allow raidtools2 demotion to universe
[10:10] <pitti> Kamion: however, raidtools2 is in the installer seed as well. Will you handle this?
[10:10] <sivang> Hey pitti :)
[10:11] <dholbach> hi dredg 
[10:11] <dholbach> hi sivan
[10:11] <mvo> hi sivang 
[10:11] <sivang> hi dholbach 
[10:11] <sivang> hi mvo 
[10:11] <ajmitch_> hi sivang 
[10:12] <sivang> ajmitch_: Hello 
[10:26] <dholbach> elmo: ping
[10:36] <pitti> sivang: do you want to start hacking on gcm today?
[10:38] <sivang> pitti: yes :)
[10:40] <Kamion> mako: back now
[10:40] <Kamion> pitti: let me do some grepping
[10:40] <aj> Kamion: mako's asleep :)
[10:40] <pitti> Kamion: I looked at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-hoary-output/all
[10:41] <Kamion> aj: I figure even with a 12-hour time lag we can probably manage to have a conversation eventually
[10:41] <pitti> Kamion: I uploaded a new heartbeat, so the only thing that holds raidtools2 is the installer seed
[10:41] <aj> Kamion: pretty robust protocol you've got there
[10:42] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, just trying to work out if and where it's actually used
[10:42] <pitti> ah, ok
[10:43] <Kamion> is raidtools2 older/newer than mdadm?
[10:44] <Mithrandir> older
[10:45] <Kamion> ok
[10:45] <pitti> Kamion: I think mdadm is the way to the future
[10:45] <pitti> Kamion: personally I like it much better than the raidtools
[10:45] <Kamion> no references to it in d-i, I'll kill it
[10:45] <pitti> yay
[10:46] <pitti> Kamion: do you already use mdadm to configure raid parititons?
[10:46] <pitti> partitions, even
[10:48] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[10:48] <Kamion> mdcfg does so
[10:49] <pitti> cool
[10:52] <Kamion> pitti: done
[10:52] <pitti> thanks
[11:08] <thom> mjg59: any ideas on how to handle 6447; i think just caching what the previous state was (in power.sh) and if it's not changed exit early should be fine...
[11:14] <pitti> elmo: here?
[11:23] <Kamion> oh god, the release notes are wrong in so many places :(
[11:23] <Kamion> "Hoary introduces a supported AMD64 port, ..."
[11:32] <pitti> thom: what's wrong?
[11:32] <pitti> thom: the bug assignment?
[11:32] <thom> mozilla guru indeed
[11:32] <pitti> hehe
[11:32] <pitti> thom: I just remembered the other CAN issue which you missed because I didn't reassign the bug to you
[11:33] <thom> i was so tempted to reassign it back with some snide comment about how the security team were more suitable for doing the work
[11:34] <pitti> thom: this does not imply that you should fix it for Warty right now :-)
[11:37] <mjg59> thom: Sounds reasonable
[11:37] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: have you seen http://www.navsys.org/ngpsd/ ?
[11:39] <Mithrandir> lamont: I guess it doesn't make much sense to set up a buildd on the sparc box I have?
[11:40] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: yeah, and it looks dead
[11:40] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: drop the admin a mail and ask what's up?
[11:41] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: good point
[11:41] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: they're going to present at FOSDEM
[11:41] <Mithrandir> lightning talk
[11:41] <Treenaks> oh? cool
[11:41] <Mithrandir> sunday 15:15-15:30
[11:41] <Treenaks> has the keysigining-time been set?
[11:41] <Mithrandir> no idea
[11:58] <Treenaks> bunch of amateurs :)
[12:04] <pitti> ogra: ping
[12:04] <ogra> pitti: pong :)
[12:04] <thom> mjg59: also, we need to find a way of getting the X user which doesn't suck
[12:04] <pitti> ogra: instead of wrapping the uuencoded pngs into a debian patch, why don't you just ship them in debian/ and install them from there?
[12:05] <ogra> diff doesnt like binary files
[12:05] <pitti> ogra: no, I mean keep them uuencoded
[12:05] <thom> ogra: still uuencoded
[12:05] <pitti> ogra: but just add the files to debian/
[12:05] <ogra> ah, ok
[12:05] <pitti> ogra: and just uudecode -o build-tree/foo < debian/foo.png.uuencoded
[12:06] <pitti> ogra: this makes the patch much smaller and nicer
[12:06] <ogra> okiedokie....
[12:06] <pitti> ogra: and pleeease s/os.system/os.spawnl/
[12:07] <mjg59> thom: Mm.
[12:07] <pitti> ogra: this avoids an intermediate shell
[12:07] <ogra> ok
[12:09] <seb128> tseng: here ?
[12:10] <thom> mjg59: bring back pam_console, all is forgiven? ;-)
[12:12] <pitti> ogra: also, you should Suggest: hwdb-client
[12:12] <ogra> yup
[12:12] <pitti> ogra: btw, will hwdb-client be fully functional with Hoary?
[12:12] <ogra> i hope so :)
[12:12] <pitti> ogra: I just tried it, does it already send data to us?
[12:12] <pitti> ogra: I mean, we should not add this patch to hal if the client is not ready
[12:12] <ogra> but at least it will collct and send until horay...
[12:13] <ogra> which was the main goal....
[12:15] <pitti> ogra: fadein and fadeout are certainly the most critical functions :-)
[12:15] <pitti> Morning carlos
[12:15] <ogra> hehe.... hwdb-gui was the first thing i wrote.... i was still playing at this time ....
[12:15] <mjg59> thom: Something like that. It's a bit of a pain.
[12:15] <carlos> morning
[12:16] <ogra> pitti: but -gui shall become a generic xml viewer with some easy scripting functions in hoary+1, so it can be used by other projects to provide a constant look and feel
[12:17] <pitti> ogra: oh, cool
[12:17] <pitti> ogra: but sending will definitively work for hoary, so we can apply the hal patch (and commit to the functionality)
[12:17] <thom> mjg59: indeed
[12:18] <ogra> yup....http://www.grawert.net/hwdb_schema.png (hwdb-send will just be a 10 liner doing a http-post)
[12:19] <pitti> ogra: nice pic :-)
[12:19] <ogra> pitti: -qa is the big part thats still missing....but it should work without it anyway...
[12:19] <ogra> pitti: so i can guarantee the collection at least, which is the most important thing to do
[12:21] <pitti> ogra: will hwdb go into main?
[12:21] <pitti> ogra: if so, you should recommend it instead of suggest
[12:22] <pitti> ogra: or even better, it should be in ship seed
[12:22] <ogra> okay...i think its planned to get it into main
[12:28] <pitti> ogra: erm...
[12:28] <ogra> ?
[12:42] <pitti> ogra: analoguous to your gtk.TRUE -> True changes, you should do the same for FALSE
[12:42] <pitti> ogra: /usr/bin/hwdb-gui:26: GtkDeprecationWarning: gtk.FALSE is deprecated, use False instead
[12:42] <ogra> yup...
[12:43] <ogra> i know...
[12:43] <pitti> ogra: just tested the crack, looks very nice!
[12:43] <ogra> pitti: thanks :)
[12:43] <pitti> ogra: the last two letters of "database" can't be seen with the default column width
[12:43] <pitti> ogra: does that happen for you as well?
[12:43] <ogra> in the button ? or in hwdb-gui ?
[12:44] <pitti> ogra: in the h-d-m button
[12:44] <pitti> ogra: maybe you should just enlarge the default width of the row a bit
[12:44] <ogra> hrm...looksok here, but i'll adjust that
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: maybe because I have a different screen size and thus a different DPI
[12:45] <pitti> dunno
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: rather drop the "contribute"
[12:45] <ogra> yup, its redundant, youre right
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: "Submit data ... to the Ubuntu Device Database" is clear as well IMHO
[12:55] <lamont> Mithrandir: if you're a glutton for punishment, and have hoary installed on the sparc box, and want to give me root, I could set up a buildd.  Or we could wait for fabbione to get back and reboot his - he wasn't that concerned if it went down while he was gone
[12:55] <lamont> although i think he expected it to stay up more than 48 hours after he left..
[12:56] <ogra> lol
[12:56] <ogra> hehe
[12:56] <Mithrandir> lamont: I'll bring it home tonight then, since I'm not allowed to hand out root accounts to people on the university network..
[12:57] <lamont> bah - I had one at stanford :)
[12:58] <Mithrandir> I'm also part of our computer club CERT, so I should probably be a good example. :)
[12:58] <lamont> mind you, it was a surprise to the owner after two handsoffs..
[12:58] <Mithrandir> heh :)
[12:58] <lamont> stanford CERT owned the box
[12:58] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*.  I'm sure they were happy about that, then.
[01:00] <lamont> their rep left, and the recipient left the department within 6 months.  about 6 month's after _that_, I had login problems (kerberos update missed that box)... Was news to the new rep that she even _owned_ the box, let alone that I had a root account on it
[01:00] <Mithrandir> yay for good security :)
[01:00] <lamont> the machine was a mail forwarder outside their firewall
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what's a good way to go about debugging the multiarched libtool?
[01:02] <Keybuk> libtool --debug ...
[01:02] <Keybuk> (which is really cunningly implemented, _oh_yes_)
[01:03] <lamont> Mithrandir: the best way I've found is to beg/plead/trick someone who knows libtool into doing it for you. :-)  Chocolate sometimes works.
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: the test suite fails, and I want to look at exact what fails about it.
[01:07] <Keybuk> which tests fail?
[01:17] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: demo-make.test (multiple times), depdemo-make.test (multiple times), pdemo-make.test, mdemo2-make.test
[01:19] <Keybuk> then you've quite majorly broken it :)
[01:20] <Mithrandir> I haven't touched it, I've just recompiled it in a multiarch environment
[01:21] <Keybuk> probably needs to support it
[01:21] <Mithrandir> it already has support for a search path -- why can't just that be used?
[01:21] <Keybuk> it does
[01:22] <Mithrandir> where do I even start debugging this?
[01:22] <Keybuk> run the tests in verbose mode, read the logs, see what fails
[01:22] <Keybuk> create your own test bits of code, run libtool over them, see what it does and make sure it's right
[01:22] <Keybuk> run libtool in debug mode to trace where things go wrong
[01:22] <Keybuk> fix it
[01:22] <Keybuk> (basically the usual way)
[01:22] <Mithrandir> ok
[01:48] <HcE> anybody knows of a website with good documentation for developing usb kernel modules for Linux 2.6.x?
[01:48] <Gagatan> HcE :)
[01:49] <Mithrandir> HcE: might be better to ask on #kernelnewbies?
[01:50] <HcE> ok
[01:51] <Mithrandir> just a thought
[01:51] <HcE> any thoughts are good
[01:51] <HcE> I'm finding out that 2.4-driver isn't much use at all for 2.6
[02:05] <pitti> Hi elmo 
[02:05] <pitti> elmo: derooting mdadm -F is nontrivial
[02:05] <elmo> pitti: squid sync would violate UVF
[02:05] <elmo> pitti: boggle - why?
[02:05] <pitti> elmo: because it automatically activates hot spares if they are present
[02:05] <pitti> elmo: and you need some high-privilege ioctls() for this
[02:05] <elmo> ah, bugger
[02:06] <pitti> elmo: also, mdadm -F tries to open() devices
[02:06] <pitti> elmo: thus it needs to be at least in the disk group, which is equivalent to root
[02:06] <pitti> elmo: a pity...
[02:07] <pitti> elmo: squid> oh sorry, I just read the top changelog entry...
[02:07] <pitti> elmo: it's not much more than a microrelease which integrates all the security bug fixes
[02:07] <pitti> elmo: I go the official way and ask mdz about it
[02:07] <elmo> thanks
[02:09] <dholbach> elmo: i sponsored an eyed3 upload to aaron lake, but it doesnt seem to be build
[02:10] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: seems like ld needs some kicking too, which should fix it.
[02:10] <dholbach> elmo: i didnt get a mail, so i dont know what went wrong
[02:10] <elmo> eyed3_0.6.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[02:10] <elmo> REJECT
[02:10] <elmo> Rejected: Unknown distribution `unstable'.
[02:10] <ogra> heh
[02:10] <dholbach> oh damn
[02:10] <dholbach> :-)
[02:10] <dholbach> metalikop: ^--
[02:11] <elmo> dholbach: you should either use your email in the Changed-By field, or ask me to add the email of the person your sponsoring to the whitelist
[02:11] <elmo> as I think we can whitelist MOTU candidates independently of their approval
[02:11] <dholbach> elmo: yeah... that 'd be good
[02:12] <Kamion> I'd prefer the latter approach, since then we can scan hoary-changes more easily to look for things that a MOTU candidate has done
[02:12] <elmo> dholbach: but please do it via upload@ubuntu.com or whatever the address is so we have an audit trail
[02:13] <dholbach> elmo: i'll tell the guys
[02:13] <elmo> k
[02:13] <elmo> (bah, I can't say 'k', without wanting to add 'thanks' but knowing someone'll mock me for it :P)
[02:14] <Mithrandir> as long as you don't add "bye". :P
[02:14] <ogra> thanksbye ?
[02:14] <Mithrandir> kthxbye
[02:15] <lamont-away> elmo: lol
[02:15] <Kamion> lamont-away: have fun
[02:16] <Mithrandir> elmo: would it make you to go nuts to just have the whitelist on the wiki so people could add themselves?
[02:16] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: wikispam
[02:16] <elmo> Kamion: are you likely to need d-i/live buildds particularly over the next 48 hours?
[02:16] <dholbach> i think signed mails to whitelist@u.c are WAY better
[02:16] <elmo> Mithrandir: I'm not thrilled about the idea - I don't think having me manually add people is particularly problematic
[02:17] <Mithrandir> elmo: 'k
[02:17] <elmo> if it becomes so, we can de-bottleneck it in other ways that aren't quite so vulnerable to abuse
[02:18] <lamont-away> Kamion: btw, still no exclusions for striptranslations - I'll get that in when I get back
[02:19] <lamont-away> with apologies to base-config or whichever
[02:23] <AndyFitz> jdub, ping
[02:26] <Kamion> elmo: I need to do a d-i build soon, once network-kickseed is through NEW; I assume that goes through the normal mechanisms rather than the special buildds though
[02:27] <elmo> hmm, yeah, I think these are only used for triggered builds
[02:27] <Kamion> elmo: and we probably want a d-i build once the kernel's fixed, but I can do that by hand if need be
[02:27] <Kamion> (the inotify stuff)
[02:41] <tseng> seb128: yes
[02:42] <seb128> tseng: muine crashing but that's fixed after moving ~/.gnome2/muine out of the way
[02:43] <tseng> seb128: hm are you using esdsink
[02:43] <seb128> correct
[02:43] <tseng> how recent is your polypaudio
[02:44] <seb128> current version
[02:44] <seb128> but the crash was before updating
[02:44] <tseng> ok perfect
[02:44] <tseng> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165143
[02:44] <tseng> pretty sure thats your issue.
[02:45] <tseng> see if it doesnt go away with this latest polypaudio update
[02:49] <dholbach> bbl
[02:50] <tseng> seb128: ive been talking with ondrej directly now and he is interested in sponsoring me on f-spot, so you are out of the loop now (unless you want to be :)
[02:50] <seb128> tseng: nice :)
[02:50] <seb128> tseng: hum, probably for the issue
[02:51] <tseng> sounds that way
[02:53] <tseng> seb128: hoping we've already got it licked by dropping MAX_CONNECTIONS
[02:53] <seb128> yep
[02:59] <sivang> anybody seen random total corruption of reiserfs root under lvm on a dell laptop? I think my whole root fs there just went down the drain..
[03:15] <zul> hey
[03:15] <tseng> morn zul 
[03:16] <zul> how is it going tseng?
[03:16] <tseng> good
[03:16] <tseng> running low on obvious issues in mono* :)
[03:16] <zul> heh...go fix inotify then ;)
[03:16] <tseng> thats your job!
[03:17] <seb128> is there any plan to upload a package without inotify or with it fixed ?
[03:17] <zul> seb128: we might have a solution turns inotify when only asked at boot
[03:18] <zul> if we upload a package without inotify then we would have to bump the abi again
[03:18] <seb128> just asking because that's annoying users for sure
[03:18] <zul> seb128: oh i know it is
[03:19] <tseng> yeah I refrained from advising someone to move to hoary for new mono stuff on account of inotify
[03:19] <tseng> silly rml
[03:19] <zul> heh..i didnt say it
[03:20] <seb128> we should not keep a crashing kernel for days
[03:20] <zul> i realize that lamont will be working on it tonight
[03:21] <seb128> k
[03:21] <seb128> but nobody tried to boot this one before uploading it ?
[03:21] <seb128> the crash seems to happen for everybody
[03:23] <zul> i think lamont tested it, it was working with my patches but i didnt have inotify enabled
[03:23] <seb128> k
[03:23] <pitti> zul: why not just upload a new kernel with "noinotify" as default?
[03:23] <pitti> zul: then you could keep the ABI
[03:23] <seb128> so lamont doesn't use GNOME/gamin I guess :p
[03:24] <zul> pitti: thats what we are going to do in the next upload
[03:24] <pitti> ah, cool
[03:24] <zul> he's on australian time right now
[03:24] <seb128> you should try a kernel in standard usecase before uploading it :p
[03:24] <Arphaway> Ey
[03:25] <tritium> tseng, the latest polypaudio seems great.  Not a single error in /var/log/messages.
[03:25] <tseng> tritium: wonderful, thanks for testing that!
[03:25] <tritium> :)
[03:26] <Arphaway> Damn now i see all those ubunti users I dont feel special anymroe ^^
[03:26] <Arphaway> anymore 
[03:38] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[03:38] <mvo> around?
[03:38] <Mitario> mvo, jup!
[03:38] <Mitario> whats up
[03:39] <mvo> Mitario: ah, great :)
[04:02] <zul> seb128: how do use gamin?
[04:02] <seb128> GNOME use it
[04:03] <zul> k
[04:03] <seb128> you have nothing to do
[04:03] <tseng> zul: its a dropin for fam
[04:03] <tseng> as far as gnome is concerned
[04:03] <zul> ah i see
[04:13] <elmo> Kamion: ?
[04:14] <zul> tseng: building now
[04:15] <tseng> zul: rock on.
[04:30] <Mithrandir> daniels: ping?
[04:30] <daniels> pong
[04:30] <Mithrandir> you had nstx set up to give out addresses with dhcp?
[04:31] <daniels> err
[04:31] <daniels> nope
[04:31] <Mithrandir> do you know if it's possible?
[04:33] <[Clint] > shouldn't be; you're not tunneling ethernet
[04:34] <Kamion> elmo: ?
[04:34] <Mithrandir> bah, defiency in nstx, then
[04:47] <elmo> Kamion: nm, sorry
[04:48] <kagou> hi
[04:52] <kagou> arglll, with the last kernel under hoary (10-4) my gnome freeze 
[04:52] <Kamion> kagou: boot with noinotify
[04:52] <pitti> this should become a FAQ
[04:53] <elmo> or it should get fixed... :p
[04:53] <pitti> ez ibreakify boog
[04:53] <zul> yes yes..
[04:53] <Kamion> hmm, X breaks on my Via-chipset test laptop again
[04:54] <zul> elmo: we are trying to fix it
[04:54] <daniels> Kamion: no it doesn't
[04:54] <elmo> zul: I'm not having a go dude; but given how badly it breaks stuff, I'm wondering why the problematic patch wasn't just reverted - for now-  yesterday?
[04:55] <Kamion> elmo: the patch was an ABI change, which makes it fun
[04:55] <Kamion> daniels: ?
[04:55] <zul> elmo: because im in the middle of testing it right now and it would have to bump abi again
[04:55] <elmo> oh, the ABI change was due to inotify? ok, sorry, wasn't aware of that
[04:56] <Alessio> hi, can i announce www.ubuntuitalia.org? :)
[04:57] <daniels> Kamion: any idea what the matter is?  it might just be that I need to do the new unichrome.sf.net pull ...
[04:58] <zul> elmo: besides im building a new kernel right now which turns it off by default keep your fingers crossed 
[04:59] <kagou> kamion i test ....
[05:00] <Kamion> daniels: hard to tell; when configuring xserver-xorg, it hangs with some kind of stripey pattern all over the screen, and switching to tty2 the video mode is screwed (i.e. huge characters)
[05:01] <kagou> what's this "noinotify" ?
[05:01] <daniels> Kamion: frig.  yeah, I'd say I need to update to r30.  could you please file a major-severity bug on xserver-xorg to update the unichrome.sf.net patch to r30?
[05:01] <Kamion> turns off inotify :)
[05:01] <Kamion> daniels: ok
[05:02] <Kamion> daniels: unfortunately it's hard for me to say when this was introduced; I haven't booted that machine for a while
[05:04] <daniels> Kamion: sure
[05:04] <mantiena> daniels, on some systems I get only 640x480 when starting ubuntu hoary liveCD, but xresprobe detect monitor parameters correctly
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> pitti: ping
[05:04] <daniels> mantiena: ok
[05:04] <daniels> it's probably fixed in xorg 6.8.2-0.1
[05:04] <pitti> bluefoxicy: pong
[05:04] <daniels> which i hope to upload on tuesday
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  are the hardened kernels going to make hoary universe?
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  or do you not have the manpower to support them for all archs?
[05:06] <mantiena> daniels, maybe, I think problem is, that in /etc/X11/xorg.conf there are no Monitor parameters (HorizSync and Vrefresh), only basic info:
[05:06] <mantiena> Section "Monitor"
[05:06] <mantiena>         Identifier      "Generic Monitor"
[05:06] <mantiena>         Option          "DPMS"
[05:06] <mantiena> EndSection
[05:06] <pitti> bluefoxicy: we can upload them to universe when the outstanding issues are fixed
[05:06] <pitti> bluefoxicy: however, I really don't have the time to care for them very well
[05:07] <pitti> bluefoxicy: if you want to help there, I'd appreciate :-)
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  such as?  I noticed there's no restricted (nvidia) modules (I got nvidia glx working by building my own amd64 kernel and module)
[05:07] <pitti> bluefoxicy: yes, for example. also, the vesa framebuffer is broken on i386 and there are no firmware images
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  i tried repetedly to build kernel debs but they came out broken or something.  No initrd, version numbers were i.e. 2.6.10_custom10.00 instead of 2.6.10-4-hardened-amd64-generic, etc
[05:08] <pitti> bluefoxicy: the firmware images must somehow be built (the standard kernel debs ship them), but I did not deal with that
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> mmm
[05:08] <pitti> bluefoxicy: please use my already existing package as basis
[05:08] <pitti> bluefoxicy: that get's the basic things right
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  all good points :)
[05:09] <trulux> I'm trying to help tritium with a python-dependent package issue regarding the python-matplotlib from http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/installing.html
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  I tried assimilating your grsecurity related configuration into the configuration for amd64 generic 2.6.10 ubuntu kernels
[05:09] <kagou> thnx Kamion for "noinotify" parameters
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> I just can't build kernel packages :o
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> I keep screwing up
[05:09] <trulux> the problem is that it seems not happy with python 2.4
[05:09] <mantiena> daniels, and when xorg starts it doesn't detect monitor properly, while xresprobe detect monitor properly.
[05:10] <trulux> it says << 2.4
[05:10] <pitti> bluefoxicy: just use the existing linux-hardened package and use debuild :-)
[05:10] <bluefoxicy> debuild?
[05:10] <trulux> and no depends. refer to that, at leats tritium points this out
[05:10] <pitti> bluefoxicy: a nice wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage :-)
[05:10] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  you supply 32 bit kernels though, I tried apt-get source -B and stuff but it was like "hi what no source archives for your architecture"
[05:11] <pitti> bluefoxicy: so far I only build powerpc and i386 kernels
[05:11] <pitti> bluefoxicy: because I don't have any other hardware for testing
[05:11] <pitti> bluefoxicy: but adding new platforms is trivial
[05:11] <daniels> mantiena: please file a bug, severity normal, with /var/log/Xorg.0.log, /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and the output of lspci, xresprobe dummy, and ddcprobe
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  I have amd64 but i'm using nvidia too; I can always test, though I do like to avoid rebooting whenever i can :)
[05:12] <Nafallo> pitti: nice! *bookmarks*
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> I wonder if I could run xen on amd64
[05:13] <pitti> bluefoxicy: cool, then let's add the amd64 images
[05:14] <pitti> bluefoxicy: then you can test the grsec/pax stuff first
[05:14] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  do you have restricted/nvidia kernel modules too that you could add for me?
[05:14] <pitti> bluefoxicy: later we can add restricted modules, but that has to happen for all arches
[05:14] <mantiena> daniels, ok, but I think I should test this with new xorg if it's could be fixed in xorg 6.8.2-0.1. Todays liveCD (http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/20050224/ ) has xorg 6.8.2-0.1 ?
[05:14] <pitti> bluefoxicy: no, I think that requires a separate source package
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> k
[05:15] <Kamion> mantiena: no, because 6.8.2-0.1 is not in the archive yet
[05:16] <mantiena> Kamion, where I can get thsi version or when this will be in archive ?
[05:16] <Kamion> 16:04 < daniels> it's probably fixed in xorg 6.8.2-0.1
[05:16] <Kamion> 16:04 < daniels> which i hope to upload on tuesday
[05:17] <pitti> fuck the UVF :-)
[05:17] <mantiena> Kamion, sorry, I don't notice second line ;)
[05:17] <bluefoxicy> it's thursday
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> is tuesday in relation to the negative or positive relative temporal offset?
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> weekly time is cyclical.
[05:18] <mantiena> Kamion, btw, I already filled debian developer application ;)
[05:18] <mantiena> bluefoxicy, ;)
[05:20] <daniels> pitti: already got an exemption
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> oh god
[05:21] <mantiena> daniels, you what is your localtime ?
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> does anyone else here read the kernel changelogs?
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> I was reading the -bk incriments and saw some memset changes
[05:21] <daniels> mantiena: 0321
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> and now in the changelog

[05:21] <bluefoxicy> 	[PATCH]  memset argument order misuses
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> 	A simple 'grep memset.*\<0);' shows argument order errors in several
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> 	uses of memset.
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> Yes, we're all programmers.  No, none of us know how to use memset()
[05:22] <Kamion> hands up the programmer here who's never made a mistake ...
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> anyway.  I shouldn't bother this channel with useless programming trivia
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  hands up the programmer here who still repetedly uses strcpy(src, dest) and then doesn't catch it until years later :)
[05:23] <mantiena> daniels, it's time to go to bed ?
[05:23] <daniels> mantiena: not yet
[05:25] <mantiena> daniels, ok, then I wanna talk with you about including nvidia and fireglx drivers into xorg.conf ;)
[05:28] <daniels> mantiena: hold up
[05:29] <mantiena> daniels, I told you one time about this - I think that automatic xserver-xorg configuration could write Driver "nvidia" or Driver "frglx" in some cases, for example if these binary drivers are already installed on system
[05:29] <tseng> mantiena: why would they already be installed unless you are doing a reconfigure
[05:29] <daniels> mantiena: yes, and I think this would be a support nightmare
[05:30] <mantiena> daniels, because of proprietary binary-only drivers ?
[05:32] <zul> brb
[05:32] <mantiena> daniels, then we can make using these drivers only if some environment variable, for example "USECLOSEDSOURCEDRIVERS" is set
[05:34] <daniels> mantiena: ... what would the point be, then?
[05:37] <mantiena> daniels, point is in liveCD - if you want to make working 3D software (games, education applications like celestia, etc.) then you need to use nvidia and fireglx drivers, because majority of systems with 3D video hardware uses nvidia or radeon
[05:37] <Kamion> how would you set an environment variable before xorg configuration in the live CD, then? :P
[05:38] <mantiena> Kamion, simply, in isolinux.cfg
[05:38] <Kamion> well, I guess if you're customising the live CD then you could customise casper too
[05:38] <tseng> Kamion: right. most of his arguments are based on a user already jumping through one or more hoops to get the driver in the first place
[05:38] <tseng> then saying its too much work to edit one line in xorg.conf
[05:39] <daniels> that would require installing nvidia-glx or fglrx on the fly, which is a pain in the arse
[05:40] <mantiena> Kamion, yea, but I don't wan't to change all the packages, so it would be better if my patch to xserver-xorg debconf scripts will be included into upstream
[05:40] <mantiena> daniels, don't worry about installing nvidia-glx or fglrx on the fly ;)
[05:40] <daniels> you're creating a with-binary-drivers derivative distribution?
[05:40] <daniels> mantiena: errr ... how not?
[05:41] <Kamion> if he's creating a derivative then he could make those packages be installed by default
[05:41] <mantiena> daniels, It's simply not your responsibility
[05:41] <mantiena> Kamion, yea
[05:42] <daniels> you do realise that you'd need an nvidia livecd, an fglrx livecd, and a stock-dri livecd?
[05:42] <Kamion> mantiena: you do know that installing nvidia-glx breaks non-nvidia systems?
[05:42] <daniels> because both nvidia-glx and xorg-driver-fglrx divert libGL.so.1.2
[05:42] <daniels> Kamion: ditto fglrx/ati
[05:42] <Kamion> indeed
[05:43] <sivang> Kamion: do you know if the warty livecd supports Macintosh (G4/G5) machines?
[05:43] <Kamion> sivang: no, it doesn't
[05:43] <Kamion> there was no powerpc live CD for warty
[05:43] <sivang> Kamion: ok, thanks.
[05:44] <Kamion> sivang: the hoary powerpc live CD should work fine
[05:44] <sivang> Kamion: the hoary one does support it right?
[05:45] <sivang> Kamion: :)
[06:01] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[06:13] <sivang> pitti: where would you say would be a good place to have the checkbox for browsing support? (I had gnome-cups-add in mind)
[06:13] <pitti> sivang: yeah, g-c-add in any case
[06:13] <pitti> sivang: probably also a menu option in g-c-manager
[06:14] <sivang> pitti: sure, that was my original plan, but I thought that maybe in gnome-cups-add where you choose use a detected printer maybe? (not sure if it refers to IPP)
[06:15] <pitti> sivang: printers discovered with browsing don't need to be added any more
[06:15] <pitti> sivang: they are already active
[06:15] <pitti> sivang: so actually it would make more sense in g-c-m alone
[06:15] <sivang> pitti: ah so that list underneath that option is just for smb?
[06:16] <pitti> sivang: maybe you can make this a bit more obvious
[06:16] <pitti> sivang: but I think a menu option is fine for a start
[06:16] <pitti> sivang: or put a checkbox somewhere into the main window
[06:16] <dholbach> re
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> wtf installing mythtv is scary
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: but we have "[*]  Use a detected printer" would it be wise to pop out a window when the user chooses this option and ask if he want to enable browsing support, becase otherwise that list region would always stay empty without any detected printer, am I right?
[06:18] <pitti> sivang: what do you mean?
[06:18] <pitti> sivang: oh no
[06:18] <pitti> sivang: the list in g-c-add is for locally detected printers
[06:18] <pitti> sivang: like usb, samba, or whatever
[06:18] <pitti> sivang: not IPP
[06:18] <sivang> pitti: ahhh oops sorry!
[06:18] <pitti> sivang: I think a menu option in the manager, or a checkbox in the main window are fine
[06:19] <ficusplanet> Could someone really quickly explain what the "Usage: /usr/sbin/pmi query|action <event>" from the recently-added-to-hoary powermanagement-interface means?  I've been trying to get my laptop to suspend, but can't figure it out.
[06:19] <pitti> elmo: some universe security syncs, please: konversation [Ubuntu override ok] , chbg, zope-zwiki, queue
[06:48] <zul> wohoo...gamin no crash
[06:48] <mvo> zul: you mean ... inotify is working now? 
[06:48] <zul> next upload which hopefully will be tonight
[06:49] <mvo> *rock*
[06:49] <tseng> mvo: not working. just disabled by default
[06:51] <zul> which is still better than crashing every time
[06:57] <sivang> anybody knows what goes on with kernel -4 , it seems to want to take down my desktop also..:-(
[06:57] <Kamion> sivang: boot with noinotify
[06:58] <zul> sivang: add noinotify
[07:00] <ogra> sivang: iz gtk bug, remove libgtk2 *grin* (i guess that would actually solve it too)
[07:00] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync  wesnoth  and  liferea  from sid? (both contain bugfixes)
[07:17] <dholbach> elmo: thanks
[07:19] <shaya> is something in hoary fscked up right now?
[07:19] <shaya> gamin seems to be panic'ing my kernel
[07:20] <shaya> as soon as I log into gnome it goes boom
[07:20] <azeem> amu: ping
[07:20] <tseng> shaya: boot with noinotify
[07:20] <shaya> thanks
[07:20] <Nafallo> hehe, maybe set that as topic? ;-)
[07:21] <shaya> or maybe boot with -4 kernel
[07:21] <tseng> no
[07:21] <tseng> -4 is the broken one
[07:21] <shaya> forgot that I upgraded kernel yesterday
[07:44] <sivang> Kamion: ahh, already fsck.reiserfs the hd there, and now it says the someone has tried killing init :)
[07:45] <sivang> Kamion: I guess I just whacked my partition..
[07:46] <sivang> ogra: EZ GTK BOOG? 
[07:47] <sivang> ogra: how can GTK BOOG destroy my partitions? :)
[07:50] <sivang> I now have on the laptop "pivot_root: Permission denied" and "chroot: cannon run command '/sbin/init': Permission denied"
[07:50] <sivang> (with noinotify)
[07:52] <mooch> some icons are missing... namely the "clean desktop" at the left bottom and the trash can on the right onw
[07:52] <mooch> even one
[07:54] <sivang> Kamion: thank you, I just revivied my desktop :)
[07:55] <sivang> I wonder how long has this been on the topic...:)
[07:55] <Kamion> kinda surprised that caused errors like that though
[07:55] <Kamion> not long
[07:55] <sivang> Kamion: I wish I just tried that before killing my reiserfs on the laptop..:-/
[07:56] <sivang> Kamion: do you know if it's ok to fsck.reiserfs against an lvm volume which contains one reiserfs partition?
[07:56] <Kamion> um, no idea, sounds risky
[07:56] <sivang> Kamion: sorry, it contains two partitions, home and /
[07:57] <Kamion> surely you'd want to run fsck against the actual logical volume
[07:57] <sivang> Kamion: ok, that probably explaines to problems I have now..
[07:57] <sivang> Kamion: yes, but I couldn't do it while it's mounted.
[07:57] <Kamion> er, if you mean "against an lvm logical volume", then that's fine, if you mean the physical volume then that's not fine
[07:58] <Kamion> but an LV cannot contain two partitions so I assume you mean a PV
[07:58] <sivang> Kamion: err, yes 
[07:58] <sivang> Kamion: never mind, I'll reinstall worst case :)
[08:11] <shaya> here's a question.  If the idea is to make boot times as short as possible.  Why is LVM and EVMS and device mapper in the default install
[08:12] <shaya> can't one argue that plain joe users dont use it
[08:13] <Kamion> those scripts exit early if they're not being used, and making boot times as short as possible is not the *only* criterion
[08:14] <Kamion> not having to install random packages to use useful filesystem-level facilities was also a design issue
[08:14] <shaya> another thought, why is gdm after bringing network up.
[08:14] <shaya> takes a good amount of time for network to come up here at Columbia
[08:14] <shaya> laptop just sitting around while we wait
[08:15] <Kamion> things like NFS home probably; make your network come up faster :-)
[08:15] <Kamion> networking does have to come up very early, it's a major sequence point
[08:15] <shaya> hmm
[08:39] <abelli> smurfix: ping. smile u have mail.
[08:55] <smurfix> abelli: should be OK
[08:55] <abelli> smurfix: thank you so muc
[08:55] <abelli> h
[08:59] <sivang> Hey sabdfl 
[08:59] <sabdfl> hey all, seems https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1440 lives on
[09:01] <Kamion> sigh, a drive-by
[09:02] <sivang> yeah , probably
[09:06] <sabdfl> sorry, dropped the connection
[09:06] <sabdfl> did anyone respond to my comment on #1440?
[09:07] <zul> i was about to
[09:07] <sabdfl> i think i'm seeing something related on a machine with hoary installed
[09:07] <zul> #undef ATA_ENABLE_ATAPI  /* define to enable ATAPI support */
[09:07] <sabdfl> i don't see the cdrom drive at all, the SATA drives are working fine
[09:07] <Kamion> sabdfl: just noted in #1440 that I asked jbailey to have a look at that bug
[09:08] <Kamion> (a couple of days ago) - since he was working on #1763 which is apparently related
[09:08] <sabdfl> Kamion, jbailey: this is one that has reared its head on every high-end machine i've tried to install on
[09:08] <zul> Kamion: and then he asked me to have a look at it and ihavent had a chance to yet
[09:08] <sabdfl> we really need to stomp on it
[09:08] <sabdfl> ok
[09:09] <Kamion> zul: ah, right, feel free to catch up on the reassign :)
[09:09] <sabdfl> at boot time I saw some ide0 and ide1 messages, along the lines of the resource being busy
[09:09] <zul> Kamion: if you change #undef ATA_ENABLE_ATAPI to a #define that might do it
[09:09] <zul> in libata.h
[09:09] <Kamion> that in the kernel?
[09:09] <zul> yep
[09:09] <Kamion> that sounds like something with wide-ranging repercussions
[09:09] <zul> line 40 in include/libata.h 
[09:10] <zul> yeah im not sure about it though
[09:11] <sabdfl> anybody else also found recent kernels very unstable?
[09:11] <Kamion> that appears to delegate ATAPI control to the scsi drivers?
[09:11] <Mitario> hi guys
[09:11] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: inotify problems, it seems
[09:11] <zul> sabdfl, yeah it should be fixed in the next upload
[09:11] <Kamion> sabdfl: everyone needs to boot with noinotify; zul's looking at making that the default until we know what's up
[09:12] <tseng> i tested zul's patch here already
[09:12] <tseng> it seems to disable inotify, at least
[09:12] <Kamion> sounds good
[09:12] <sivang> sabdfl: inotify problem , same here
[09:12] <sabdfl> ok
[09:13] <sivang> also on dell laptop , one fs down presumably due to inotify problem
[09:14] <zul> Kamion: in  the 2.6.11 bitkeeper for sata finished ATAPI support and turns it on 
[09:14] <Kamion> zul: would that be a big deal to pull in?
[09:15] <Kamion> the thing is that affects nearly every system on the planet, whereas at the moment it's only some systems that are affected
[09:15] <Kamion> so it's an interesting risk assessment
[09:15] <winkle> tseng: nice to see muine 0.8.2, it crashes on play here though... :-/
[09:15] <tseng> winkle: are you using esdsink?
[09:15] <zul> Kamion i was going to try this weekend...make a test kernel and get someone to test it with sata and atapi cd-rom
[09:16] <tseng> winkle: update to the latest polypaudio and let me know if you still have the bug please.
[09:16] <winkle> tseng: will do, thanks
[09:16] <Kamion> zul: would it be possible to get the scsi subsystem not to claim that bus? (which seems to be part of the issue)
[09:18] <zul> it could be possible
[09:18] <Kamion> I still have no idea why my SATA system has never suffered from this issue
[09:18] <zul> il check lkml
[09:18] <zul> yeah its the first time seeing this for me
[09:20] <Kamion> it has an ATAPI CD-RW, I believe
[09:21] <zul> it could be dependent on what kind of sata they are using as well though
[09:21] <Kamion> yeah, sata_via here
[09:22] <zul> sabdfl, what kind of sata do you have?
[09:28] <zul> brb
[09:45] <robertj^> I think ;)
[09:45] <robertj^> doh wrong channel
[09:46] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:50] <robertj^> Are there any plans for a GUI Grub config tool?
[09:50] <mdz> morning
[09:50] <dholbach> hi mdz
[09:50] <ogra> hi
[09:50] <robertj^> mdz: morning, do you know of any plans for a grub gui config tool?
[09:50] <sivang> morning mdz
[09:50] <ogra> robertj^: do you really think thats necessary ?
[09:51] <robertj^> ogra: I do just for setting the default OS and the timeout period
[09:52] <ogra> robertj^, something like that ? (not written for or tested on hoary) http://www.grawert.net/software/startup-settings/index.html
[09:52] <Nafallo> mdz: hi there.
[09:52] <robertj^> I really didn't and then my wife complained, and that's kinda the standard I use to measuer things
[09:52] <robertj^> ogra: yeah, like that
[09:54] <mdz> robertj^: I think gnome-system-tools has one
[09:54] <ogra> robertj^: unfortunately i currently dont have the time to make it ready for universe/hoary....
[09:54] <robertj^> ogra: yeah, file it as a blocker for grumpy?
[09:55] <robertj^> mdz: yeah, I knew about that, It might even be on my system somewhere, I was just wondering if something better existed and ogra's is just what I was thinking
[09:55] <ogra> robertj^: mdz is right, but i think its disabled (i guess because of bugs) 
[09:56] <dholbach> ogra: yes... it put my menu.lst completely on crack some months ago
[09:56] <robertj^> ogra: that looks to be a much nicer solution if it works
[09:57] <zul> bbl
[09:58] <robertj^> ogra: btw, what do you think about a grub submenu for older kernels?
[09:58] <robertj^> again, grumpy timeframe
[09:59] <ogra> robertj^: what do you mean by grub submenu for older kernels ?
[09:59] <robertj^> ogra: currently every old-revision kernel piles up on the grub menu
[09:59] <AndyR> evenin' all
[09:59] <robertj^> so instead it would say "Older kernels..."
[09:59] <ogra> robertj^: ah, you mean the description....
[10:00] <robertj^> ogra: I don't think so (could be wrong)
[10:00] <robertj^> You would have Ubuntu, Windows, Older Ubuntu kernel on your menu
[10:00] <robertj^> and if you select the Older Ubuntu kernel you would get a list of all the old stuff
[10:01] <ogra> robertj^: in my menu.lst i currently have Default and Previous
[10:01] <mdz> daniels: ping, re: xserver-xorg keyboard configuration
[10:01] <ogra> and the respective recovery modes
[10:01] <robertj^> yeah
[10:01] <doko> jdub, mdz: any reason why libcairo1/libcairo1-dev are in main? there are no packages depending on it, which are in main as well. rationale: gcj-4.0 requires version 0.3.0, which I would like to get synced from unstable.
[10:01] <mdz> smurfix: ping, re: keyboard selector
[10:02] <ogra> robertj^: so why keep all the old stuff additionally ?
[10:02] <mdz> doko: check germinate output, it will explain why it is in main
[10:02] <robertj^> Dunno, it just stays so I assume it was ment to
[10:02] <ogra> robertj^: i would just uninstall the old kernels
[10:02] <smurfix> mdz: The console stuff is uploaded, the main problem I see right now is that it has a few new strings which need to get localized
[10:03] <robertj^> are stable kernels marked as conflicting?
[10:03] <elmo> doko: build-depend of dia
[10:04] <elmo> but given it's not listed as a depends, I guess it's unused
[10:04] <smurfix> mdz: wrt X keyboards, I'm still fiddling with code that finds the "best" X keymap to use. Should be ready weekendish.
[10:05] <doko> elmo: ok, I'll check
[10:05] <smurfix> mdz: Haven't seen any bug reports about the installer part yet, other than "it doesn't yet solve the X problem".
[10:06] <robertj^> ogra: there's currently no facility to automatically uninstall the kernel is there? A metapackage shouldn't satisfy itself by taking the highest version dep
[10:07] <robertj^> so I guess it's not just a matter of setting up a linux-kernel and last-linux-kernel
[10:07] <ogra> robertj^: i think the metapackage always depends on the last stable one.... 
[10:10] <robertj^> anyway, thats a teensy issue really I guess
[10:17] <robertj^> Now that I think about it, it's probably not needed. The rationale is that NTLDR only shows multiple booting options if multiple installs are available
[10:18] <robertj^> My wife knows that, but she's probably a-typical, although that does seem to be the most logical assumption...
[10:26] <mdz> smurfix: yeah, console stuff is looking good. dvorak is a single keystroke :-)
[10:27] <mdz> smurfix: glad to hear that X is coming along.  any unexpected issues?
[10:27] <smurfix> mdz: as I said, I'm still fiddling with the analyzing code. I expect there not to be major problems.
[10:29] <smurfix> mdz: The main problem is that the X keymaps list many symbols in more locations than the console map has them.
[10:29] <mdz> Kamion,lamont: what shall we do about this inotify mess?  is a fix inbound, or do we need to back out to the old inotify patch?
[10:30] <tseng> mdz: zul created a patch (ive tested) to default inotify to off
[10:31] <smurfix> mdz: for instance, a German X keymap has </> on the pc-105 key, but also on shift+alt+y/x where nobody would expect them
[10:31] <mdz> smurfix: american english seems to take very many keystrokes to determine
[10:31] <mdz> tseng: should we just go back to dnotify?  gamin supports both, rigth?
[10:31] <mdz> smurfix: hmm, I see
[10:32] <tseng> mdz: gamin seems to happily fall back on dnotify when inotify is missing
[10:32] <smurfix> mdz: The problem is that lots of keyboards do have querty, and mostly-identical layouts, so the easy stuff (like Dvorak ;-) is gone first
[10:32] <smurfix> mdz: German layout needs between 4 and 8 keypresses, depending on which path you take.
[10:33] <tseng> mdz: http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel/enable-inotify.patch < worksforme.. he is looking to push an upload sometime tonight with this, and hopefully "fix" inotify later
[10:34] <mdz> tseng: he == zul?
[10:34] <tseng> via lamont
[10:35] <tseng> yes.
[10:35] <mdz> ok
[10:35] <smurfix> mdz: Shortening the paths isn't easy because I need to allow for lookalike characters. Writing a global optimizer that attempts to shorten the median path is probably a post-Hoary exercise.
[10:37] <mdz> smurfix: agreed
[10:38] <mdz> smurfix: the paths for Hoary will determine whether we can use the selector as the default method in the installer, though
[10:38] <Kamion> mdz: in any case I think having the guessed option right there up front, the way it is at the moment, is good
[10:39] <Kamion> it makes the most likely case easiest
[10:39] <mdz> indeed
[10:39] <mdz> dvorak is the same number of keystrokes either way (down-down-enter vs. down-enter-q)
[10:44] <elmo> fwiw, detecting the (I think) British keyboard at the DC takes 6 or 7 keyws
[10:47] <smurfix> mdz: *Your* dvorak takes only one key, but there are others. :-/  Integrating X keyboards into that selector is very difficult though and requires a lot of testing because the X keymaps have too many symbols in locations where no user would know how to find them.
[10:48] <doko> elmo: please sync dia from unstable, the libcairo build-dep was disabled in unstable, the python fix isn't necessary anymore. then libcairo1-dev can be synced from unstable and be kept in main because libgcj6-awt starts to depend on it.
[10:48] <smurfix> The console keymaps are comparatively sane and have (mostly) exactly those keys assigned which are actually printed on the keyboard.
[10:49] <elmo> doko: ok to override ubuntu modifications to dia?
[10:55] <tseng> elmo: while youre at it, could you please sync f-spot from unstable?
[10:55] <geppy> If you try to mount the logical partition holding the virtual partitions, it kills the system.
[10:55] <geppy> Sorry if my terminology is a bit off.  Basically, 'mount /dev/hda4 /mnt/point' completely kills the system.
[10:56] <mdz> geppy: what do you mean, completely kills the system?  do you get a kernel panic?
[10:56] <elmo> tseng: same question
[10:57] <tseng> elmo: overwriting local is fine
[10:57] <geppy> mdz:  Not a kernel panic, but it literally kills the system.  Nothing responds.  CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE and CTRL-ALT-DEL do nothing;  it just stops completely.
[10:57] <bluefoxicy> Can anyone confirm if there's actually a stable release of Qemu at this time that should run on amd64, and should I throw a bug at bugzilla?
[10:58] <tseng> bluefoxicy: you can throw a request at MOTU once you find yourself a working qemu package
[10:59] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I'd be happy to build one if I hadn't failed repetedly at building kernel packages and had any clue what I was doing :)  I don't want to break ubuntu (like whoever's maintaining gtk-gnutella did, with much help from whoever's coding gtk-gnutella's busted ass build system)
[10:59] <doko> elmo: yes, that's the python fix, which was corrected in unstable by depending on python-dev.
[11:00] <tseng> bluefoxicy: most of the universe team is directed on fixing up python packages, im trying to beat mono * into shape
[11:01] <tseng> bluefoxicy: no one free to fix your pet bugs for you atm, youll have to do the footwork or wait, sorry
[11:01] <tseng> you have a few weeks to get it sorted out :)
[11:04] <Kamion> geppy: do you mean "extended partition containing the logical partitions"?
[11:04] <geppy> Kamion:  Yes, sorry.
[11:05] <Kamion> geppy: it's quite confusing when you talk about logical partitions because a logical partition is in fact something else, which people mount every day; I suspect that's why people haven't been paying much attention :-)
[11:05] <geppy> =)
[11:05] <Kamion> geppy: I'll give it a try when I'm back home tomorrow
[11:05] <geppy> Kamion:  Alright;  just don't have anything important running. =P
[11:06] <mdz> perhaps it's the usual inotify bug
[11:10] <tseng> elmo: urgh, that sync grabbed f-spot 0.0.9-2. im seeing -3 here from ftp.debian.org
[11:11] <wasabi_> /j #anhksvn
[11:11] <wasabi_> oops
[11:12] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I can wait
[11:12] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  you've seen me write and fix ebuilds, i'd do the work if I knew wtf I was doing
[11:15] <shaya> hmm
[11:15] <shaya> heh, didn't realize I had a package in Universe
[11:15] <dholbach> shaya: which one?
[11:15] <shaya> I wonder if any other ubuntu user uses but me
[11:15] <shaya> hebcal
[11:16] <shaya> where's popularity contest results for ubuntu?
[11:51] <Evaso> hi guys, what about pmount and udf writing in ubuntu?
[11:53] <Evaso> is this actually working on hoary?