[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: yeah
[12:01] <mdz> ok, seeds updated
[12:02] <fgubuntu> mdz, you mean updated with ndiswrapper-utils?
[12:02] <mdz> fgubuntu: yes
[12:03] <mdz> tomorrow's daily install CD will have ndiswrapper-utils on it
[12:03] <fgubuntu> you guys are the best!
[12:03] <mdz> we decided to do that a long time ago, but apparently I forgot to actually make the change
[12:03] <mdz> that would have been embarrassing, considering I was the one who proposed it
[12:04] <zul> heh..you are allowed to make mistakes sometimes
[12:04] <mdz> nonsense
[12:05] <Kamion> ok, with kickseed 0.9 it should be possible to do a complete Kickstart install of Ubuntu
[12:05] <zul> nice!
[12:05] <Kamion> although with, uh, somewhat carefully-chosen arguments
[12:05] <mdz> Kamion: do you have some notes that could be put into the wiki as a starting point for a howto?
[12:06] <mdz> I'd like to give that a try sometime soon
[12:06] <Kamion> mdz: not yet, but one-line instructions:
[12:07] <mdz> I'm pretty much convinced that casper should cause shells (running as the live user) to be spawned on the console, rather than letting getty prompt for a username/password
[12:07] <Kamion> mdz: install system-config-kickstart, run it, put the output on an HTTP server accessible from your install machine, boot with ks=http://... as a kernel argument
[12:07] <mdz> but I'm not sure of the best means to launch them
[12:08] <Kamion> openvt?
[12:09] <mdz> does that take care of setting up the process group leadership, etc.?
[12:09] <mdz> ideally it would be something which would update utmp as well
[12:10] <mdz> and ensure that the shell is launched as a login shell
[12:10] <Kamion> hm, busybox doesn't have open(1) or openvt(1) so I can't check on the convenient machine
[12:11] <mdz> I think I might just want to spawn /bin/login -f $user or such
[12:12] <mdz> yes, that seems to dtrt
[12:14] <mdz> need to arrange for it to be attached to the right vt, though. maybe openvt there
[12:15] <mdz> openvt complains that the vt is in use, odd
[12:16] <mdz> init seems to use a shell anyway, so I can just use redirections instead
[12:16] <Kamion> hmm, nice of the anaconda guys to document ks=ftp://. not.
[12:17] <Kamion> so I guess that'll work too as of kickseed 0.10
[12:21] <mdz> Kamion: can you confirm that TERM=serial is the proper test for a serial console in d-i?
[12:21] <mdz> if so, I'll make that change at the same time
[12:21] <Kamion> TERM_TYPE=serial
[12:22] <mdz> er, yeah, that
[12:22] <Kamion> hm, one sec
[12:22] <mdz> I wonder if I should skip configuring X entirely, or only stop gdm from starting
[12:23] <mdz> I suppose I should skip it, since elmo pointed out that it asks questions
[12:23] <Kamion> $TERM_TYPE doesn't show up while executing a shell from d-i's main menu, which is odd
[12:23] <Kamion> oh, I guess that shell gets its env cleared
[12:24] <Kamion> yes, TERM_TYPE=serial should indeed be fine
[12:24] <mdz> ok, thanks
[12:24] <Kamion> set via /lib/debian-installer/detect-console-linux
[12:24] <mdz> is there an easy way I can test it?
[12:25] <Kamion> s/-linux//
[12:25] <Kamion> test it?
[12:25] <Kamion> oh
[12:25] <Kamion> that :)
[12:25] <mdz> do I just boot with console=ttyS... ?
[12:25] <Kamion> boot with init=/bin/sh and frob /lib/debian-installer/detect-console to lie? dunno what other effects that would have
[12:25] <mdz> or does d-i have a magic console mode?
[12:26] <Kamion> no, the test is a readlink on /proc/self/fd/0
[12:26] <mdz> what file does that belong to?
[12:26] <mdz> s/file/package/
[12:26] <Kamion> rootskel
[12:26] <mdz> "what package does that file belong to"
[12:26] <mdz> thanks
[12:26] <Kamion> booting with console=ttyS... would do it
[12:26] <mdz> ok
[12:26] <HrdwrBoB> you have to specify the rate etc too though
[12:27] <mdz> yes, hence ...
[12:30] <mdz> Kamion: I just noticed that the user-password configuration stuff could be done in a nicer way; passwd.config automagically skips the password comparison stuff if I don't preseed user-password-again
[12:30] <mdz> Kamion: however, user-password-again is asked at priority high
[12:30] <mdz> (pointing again to the fact that casper should probably use priority=critical)
[12:32] <mdz> what I would really like to do would be to set the user password to empty, but passwd.config explicitly disallows that
[12:34] <mdz> I suppose I could just set it afterward
[12:34] <dholbach> seb128: ping
[12:34] <seb128> pong
[12:35] <dholbach> seb128: do you have an idea, what i could have done in packaging, to have 6 warnings like "** (process:28997): CRITICAL **: egg_desktop_entries_add_group: assertion `egg_desktop_entries_lookup_group (entries, group_name) == NULL' failed" and just 3?
[12:35] <dholbach> seb128: i'm still working on coaster
[12:35] <dholbach> seb128: the warnings refer to the installation
[12:36] <hennin1> hy, i just managed to install ubuntu with FAI - fully automatic install from a sarge install server. as i saw, the ubuntu packages for FAI, at least as they are in warty, are preconfigured only to install sarge - is there any need for patches to install ubuntu with fai? 
[12:37] <seb128> dholbach: seems to be a update-desktop-database output, probably from a .desktop on the system, dunno which one
[12:37] <tseng> hennin1: ubuntu hoary is implementing kickstart support in the installer. stay tuned
[12:38] <dholbach> ah ok... thought it was my fault 
[12:38] <tseng> other automated install methods probably wont be supported
[12:39] <dholbach> seb128: another problem is that clicking on a file edited with coaster fires up coaster nicely, but doesnt show the contents stored in the file - i can only guess from the lack of bugreports on it, that it's my problem and not upstreams :-)
[12:39] <hennin1> tseng: does that mean there won't even be a FAI package in ubuntu at all?
[12:39] <seb128> dholbach: is the .desktop correctly installed ?
[12:40] <tseng> hennin1: its probably a universe package, no?
[12:40] <dholbach> seb128: /usr/share/applications/coaster.desktop
[12:40] <tseng> hennin1: which currently means, YMMV. you are certainly free to offer us a fixed package, but it wont be a priority to fix with kickstart support coming in the installer
[12:41] <tseng> hennin1: visit us here or debian-devel list if you procure a fix, please
[12:45] <seb128> dholbach: so it should work
[12:45] <mdz> Kamion: where did we leave off with getting the opencd content onto the hoary live CDs?  waiting for a permanent URL?
[12:45] <Kamion> mdz: sorry, maybe it's too late at night for me to understand that user-password-again query
[12:45] <seb128> dholbach: "coaster /path/to/file" works ?
[12:46] <dholbach> seb128: well i hope, mxpxpod drops in then... i'm pretty clueless what's going on
[12:46] <Kamion> I'm not convinced that casper should use priority=critical
[12:46] <mdz> Kamion: the user-password-again thingy was, I think, a "we could clean this up when moving casper to priority critical after hoary" sort of musing
[12:46] <mdz> oh?
[12:46] <Kamion> priority=critical has semantics that proved to be too much trouble
[12:46] <Kamion> I'm uncomfortable with supporting the installer and casper at two different priorities; I think it will just make excessive work
[12:47] <Kamion> 23:38 < tseng> other automated install methods probably wont be supported
[12:47] <dholbach> seb128: no :-/
[12:47] <Kamion> tseng: that's not true; preseed will be supported
[12:47] <dholbach> seb128: ah... ok... maybe i found something
[12:47] <seb128> what ?
[12:47] <tseng> Kamion: he is looking at some universe package targetted at sarge
[12:47] <dholbach> seb128: a warning about a dtd
[12:47] <mdz> we already test them separately anyway
[12:48] <Kamion> tseng: kickstart is primarily for compatibility purposes; it is less flexible than other methods
[12:48] <Kamion> mdz: I'm just speaking from experience of the pain of diverging semantics there
[12:48] <mdz> ok
[12:48] <mdz> you expect priority=critical would be more fragile than the existing preseeding stuff?
[12:49] <Kamion> casper's situation would be less problematic than the installer's, but priority=critical is still really meant for fully automated installs where you have tuned the installer to your system by preseeding it
[12:49] <Kamion> yes, I do
[12:51] <mdz> Kamion: how guilty would you feel about adding another udevstart invocation to work around #5732 ?
[12:52] <hennin1> tseng: yes, it is a universe package. where can i read about in which form i'll have to provide that patch? (i never produced a patch for a debian package until now, and know even less about the ubuntu development process).  for the debian package, the FAI maintainer already knows about it and will put the necessary fix into FAi.  
[12:53] <tseng> hm are you talking about a real bug that prevents you from using it with ubuntu, or a branding issue?
[12:55] <tseng> im not familiar with this package
[12:55] <Kamion> mdz: probably not at all
[12:56] <Kamion> ... not at all guilty
[12:56] <hennin1> as long as my install server isn't running ubuntu, it is no problem for me at all, but the available ubuntu package simply won't install ubuntu but sarge.
[12:57] <tseng> that sounds like a branding issue
[12:58] <tseng> you are asking for the default configuration of the ubuntu package to support ubuntu, not sarge
[12:59] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[12:59] <mdz> seb128: still here?
[12:59] <seb128> yep
[01:00] <mdz> seb128: I am trying to think of a good way to fix #6667
[01:00] <mdz> currently, the live CD uses automaticlogin
[01:00] <mdz> which is perfect for the first login, but after that, leaves the user at a login prompt
[01:00] <mdz> maybe I should enable both automaticlogin and timedlogin?  would that work?
[01:00] <hennin1> i don't know much about kickstart, but as i see, kamion is right, i don't see the possibility to have custom scripts like FAI supports them, at the first glance there's no information about how different system types can be managed with kickstart. anyway, i use fai since some time and don't plan to switch, as i already have a lot of work put into FAI
[01:00] <tseng> you can set a 10 second relogin timer or so
[01:01] <tseng> and it gives visual feedback
[01:01] <mdz> ok, I'll test that
[01:01] <tseng> "10 seconds to login" above the username prompt
[01:01] <seb128> mdz: I've not tried, perhaps
[01:01] <tseng> i do that on my mythtv box
[01:01] <mdz> seems to work perfectly, thanks
[01:01] <hennin1> tseng: i don't know what you consider "branding" issue. 
[01:01] <tseng> hennin1: branding = customizing a package for ubuntu
[01:02] <tseng> which is what you are looking to do as I understand it.
[01:02] <tseng> which makes me wonder what you think the upstream maintainer is doing for you, its not a bug perse
[01:03] <mdz> tseng: I'm going to do that on my mythtv box as well
[01:04] <tseng> hennin1: really to be perfectly honest this FAI stuff doesnt look like something I can/am willing to support, and its in universe. youll have to explain your issues with the package to ubuntu-devel mailing list or find someone else in #ubuntu-motu to take up your cause. or better, read the debian new maintainer guide and learn packaging, and roll us a fix.
[01:05] <seb128> time to sleep, night
[01:05] <tseng> hennin1: I'd rather not bother every one here anymore about it today, sorry
[01:05] <tseng> i hope one of those courses of action is successful for you :)
[01:07] <Kamion> wow, hostile much? :) it's a bug ...
[01:07] <tseng> hm I didnt mean to be hostile at all.. it seems like a branding thing to me, like apt-proxy
[01:08] <Kamion> lack of technically-required branding is a bug
[01:08] <Kamion> as I understand hennin1's issue, it is not merely cosmetic
[01:08] <hennin1> tseng: oh, sorry, i just wanted to offer help, nor bother anybody nor less request any action,  my personal needs are fulfilled as my ubuntu is running and installed automatically with FAI. but i'll go for the hint with the new maintainers guide...
[01:09] <hennin1> no problem, tseng. :)
[01:09] <tseng> no I didnt mean to be an ass, there is just a stigma that people like to keep this channel low traffic
[01:09] <tseng> i probably take it too seriously
[01:09] <dholbach> hennin1: yes, get rocking in the MOTU crew! :-)
[01:11] <tseng> hennin1: #ubuntu-motu can help you with packaging issues.. it sounds like you basically need to patch the default config or provide your own
[01:12] <tseng> hennin1: if you write it.. I can help you start packaging it
[01:12] <hennin1> kamion: i think you're right. simply put, if i somebody will have an ubuntu server runnung FAI, he probably don't want it to install sarge, which is what would happen right now :) that a bit more grave than just a  wrong logo or something...
[01:12] <tseng> does that make sense?
[01:39] <zul> hey mjg59 
[01:46] <jdub> argh. pain. so. tempting. to. ship. evince. must. have. discipline.
[01:47] <zul> hmmm...?
[01:49] <calc> evince isn't integrated with cups yet is it?
[01:50] <jdub> how do you mean?
[01:51] <calc> the last time i looked at its printer options it looked different
[01:51] <jdub> it uses gnomeprint
[01:51] <jdub> which uses cups
[01:51] <calc> ah ok
[01:51] <calc> maybe i was confused with something else
[01:52] <mjg59> Hello
[01:52] <jdub> hrm. two-to-a-page didn't work. d'oh. ;)
[01:52] <jdub> ah, i recall seeing something about this.
[01:55] <calc> hmm yea it looks fine to me, i don't know what i was on
[01:55] <calc> though it did seem to consistently crash trying to load the iso c++ doc
[02:06] <daniels> mjg59: any luck with that drm patch? :)
[02:55] <jbailey> wasabi: There?  I can't seem to get to your package page right now.
[03:23] <dholbach> jdub: ping
[03:25] <jdub> dholbach: pong
[03:26] <dholbach> jdub: do you know the irc nick of George Farris (the author of gfax)? he said he got in contact with you
[03:26] <dholbach> s/contact/touch
[03:26] <jdub> hrm, don't think i've ever met him on irc
[03:26] <dholbach> ok
[03:26] <jdub> yeah, he's been working on the new mono version of gfax
[03:26] <dholbach> just wanted to know, to get him more into the MOTU boat :-)
[03:27] <jdub> that'd be rad
[03:27] <dholbach> i'll drop him a mail
[03:33] <bob2> jdub: would it be possible to beg a patch into the ubuntu kernel at this point?
[03:39] <jdub> bob2: somewhat unlikely, but if it could possibly be seen as a bugfix, it's worth asking
[03:39] <bob2> jdub: it just adds pci ids for the x40 irda controller
[03:39] <jdub> dude
[03:39] <jdub> that's totally a bugfix
[03:39] <bob2> that's what I thought!
[03:41] <dholbach> someone should take care of a sync of the mozilla-thunderbird-locale-* packages, at least with the current german one, thunderbird crashes immediately
[03:42] <dholbach> i'll tell Mithrandir once he returned from fosdem
[03:45] <jdub> jdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/
[03:46] <dholbach> jdub: mailed him, be sure to push the next universe guys to #ubuntu-motu as soon as they hit you :-)
[03:46] <jdub> rockin' :)
[03:46] <zul> jdub: thats just plain scary :)
[03:47] <dholbach> jdub: turn up the music, i can't hear anything
[03:48] <dholbach> and it is in sync... can't believe it
[04:12] <zul> night
[04:25] <dholbach> sleep tight everyone *yawn*
[04:26] <tseng> bye dholbach 
[04:26] <dholbach> bye tseng
[04:27] <dholbach> totem doesn't seem to be able to bookmark yet :-)
[04:28] <tseng> no, just recent files
[04:28] <tseng> which dont include http it seems
[04:35] <daniels> jdub's diggin' tha music
[08:38] <pitti> Morning
[08:50] <doko> morning all
[08:50] <doko> d3vic3: did you get some feedback from #kubuntu about the kde bindings?
[08:52] <pitti> Hi doko
[08:53] <d3vic3> doko, no
[09:34] <opi> d3vic3: what this KDE bindings was about?
[09:34] <opi> d3vic3: I'm currently using Ubuntu + KDE
[09:34] <d3vic3> python-kde3
[09:35] <opi> d3vic3: I didn't play with QT Bindings 
[09:36] <opi> d3vic3: you want to test it, or?
[09:36] <d3vic3> well, no, it wont build
[09:38] <opi> oh, I can try to build it after 1 PM
[09:49] <seb128> jdub: what do you think about #6989 ?
[09:51] <dholbach> gooooooooood morning
[09:58] <jdub> seb128: while we're not willing to support SA, and we don't write a new spam filtering plugin...
[09:58] <jdub> seb128: it would be nice if the UI disappeared if SA wasn't around
[09:58] <Kamion> morning
[09:58] <seb128> right
[09:59] <jdub> yo Kamion 
[09:59] <dholbach> hi Kamion 
[09:59] <seb128> according to #evolution guys evolution should depends on sa
[09:59] <jdub> so not much interest in fixing that then ;)
[09:59] <seb128> but right, let's that for the moment
[09:59] <Kamion> ... and gone again, giving K a lift to work. that was a short morning. :)
[10:12] <drbyte> hah, kernel-team is being bugzilla spammed. clever. 
[10:12] <drbyte> can someone just add arch tags to bugzilla mail instead?
[10:14] <d3vic3> http://img95.exs.cx/img95/272/mozillaadware4vs.png <-- issint this anti-trust
[10:14] <dholbach> hi drbyte 
[10:14] <dholbach> hi dredg 
[10:14] <drbyte> d3vic3: its supposed to be a fake iirc
[10:14] <drbyte> hi dholbach 
[10:15] <dredg> howdy
[10:15] <dholbach> Mithrandir: still/already there?
[10:17] <d3vic3> drbyte, I figure that much 
[10:20] <Kamion> drbyte: well, the kernel team *does* need to take responsibility for kernel bugs ... at least bugzilla mail is threaded now
[10:21] <drbyte> Kamion: yeah. i was looking for a way to just get the arch specific stuff, because i don't care about the other archs (tbh, i don't even have access to something like x86_64; so its not a matter of not caring)
[10:22] <Kamion> some clever procmail could possibly filter threads on the Architecture: tag in the first message, I suppose ...
[10:23] <drbyte> thanks. i'll look into it. get Evo to pipe outside or something
[10:26] <Kamion> would be easier if bugzilla would put the current value of Architecture: in a mail header, though
[10:28] <drbyte> actually, evolution can do magic too, i think. i'll play with it later...
[10:41] <amu> moin all 
[10:42] <AndyFitz> g'day amu
[10:44] <amu> hey AndyFitz
[10:44] <pitti> Hi amu
[10:44] <pitti> Hi carlos
[10:44] <carlos> hi *
[10:45] <amu> huh pitti & carlos  
[11:18] <mvo> seb128: do you know when gtk2.6 entered sarge?
[11:19] <seb128> 2 days ago
[11:19] <seb128> why ?
[11:19] <Treenaks> mvo: isn't that on packages.qa.debian.org somewhere?
[11:19] <mvo> Treenaks: I had a quick look, but didn't find it. but IIRC it is
[11:19] <seb128> ?
[11:20] <seb128> mvo: any issue with it ?
[11:20] <mvo> it breaks synaptic
[11:20] <seb128> mvo: speak nooooow :p
[11:20] <seb128> oh great :/
[11:20] <seb128> how so ?
[11:20] <mvo> it's a synaptic problem, so don't worry. 
[11:20] <seb128> k
[11:21] <mvo> and it's fixed in unstable
[11:21] <seb128> just curious but how does it break ?
[11:21] <mvo> (and ubuntu of course)
[11:21] <seb128> it should be compatible ...
[11:22] <mvo> incorrect quiting a GtkDialog with "gtk_main() and gtk_quit()" IIRC (and not using gtk_dialog_run())
[11:23] <mvo> I'll just push the unstable synaptic into testing and hope for the best :)
[11:23] <seb128> k
[12:33] <haggai> doko: Am I right in thinking that the gcc/amd64 ABI changed from 3.3 -> 3.4/4.0?
[12:35] <doko> haggai: the C++ ABI? AFAIK there are no platform specific changes between these versions
[12:40] <lifeless> I thought 3.4 introd a new C++ ABI
[12:40] <lifeless> for all playforms
[12:42] <doko> lifeless: correct, but we needed mozilla and firefox on amd64 to be built with g++-3.4, so the g++-3.4 for amd64 is configured with -fabi-version=1.
[12:45] <haggai> doko: sorry, I meant upstream gcc.  OOo2-amd64 is segfaulting in the bridges module and I wonder if it is because it has been written for a different ABI
[12:49] <doko> the C++ ABI in 3.4 and 4.0 is the same, but differs from the one in 3.3
[12:53] <haggai> doko: hmm, that's probably the cause of the problem then, thanks
[01:01] <jordi> hola hola hola
[01:01] <jordi> carlos: ping
[01:01] <seb128> hey jordi 
[01:01] <jdub> hordi!
[01:02] <carlos> jordi: pong
[01:02] <jordi> OMG THE TV DUDE
[01:02] <jordi> hey
[01:02] <daniels> yo hordi
[01:02] <seb128> hey carlos 
[01:02] <jordi> carlos: ok, so it's good :)
[01:03] <jordi> carlos: I don't have access to my mail right now. I forgot to switch my computer on this morning. :)
[01:03] <seb128> jordi: you suck
[01:03] <jordi> I'm going to London this WE
[01:03] <carlos> seb128: hi
[01:03] <jordi> it's going to be cool
[01:04] <jordi> seb128: yeah, I suck, because my signed epiphany upload is sitting in my powered off computer. :)
[01:04] <carlos> jordi: Don't worry, I asked already the plane tickets for you
[01:04] <Treenaks> jordi: get on your bicycle, get it powered! :)
[01:04] <jordi> Treenaks: dude, I'm so unfit
[01:05] <jordi> I haven't trained in months
[01:05] <jordi> that makes me suck more than seb imagines
[01:05] <carlos> jordi: you are sooo weak...
[01:05] <seb128> carlos: why a plane ticket ? The lazy boy can run and swim :p
[01:05] <carlos> seb128: right!
[01:05] <carlos> seb128: good idea
[01:05] <carlos> jordi: see you in London
[01:05] <carlos> :-D
[01:05] <jordi> seb128: if you arrange a 2 month vacation for me, I surely can do it
[01:05] <Treenaks> LOL
[01:05] <seb128> :)
[01:05] <carlos> jordi: sorry you only have one day
[01:06] <jordi> heh
[01:06] <Treenaks> jordi: oh, and no more complaining about not being fit after that then :)
[01:06] <HiddenWolf> guys, there is a guy in #ubuntu with a fatal kernel error, and I can't help him, can anyone of you try?
[01:13] <HiddenWolf> some guy in #ubuntu running into hotplug/modprobe weirdness. I'm out of my depth here, please assist
[01:23] <pitti> daniels: pin
[01:23] <pitti> g
[01:36] <jbailey> Do problems with the wiki go into bugzilla under 'websites'?
[01:36] <jdub> yeah, or the WikiWishlist page
[01:37] <AndyFitz> jdub, my t-shirts got rejected :-/
[01:37] <AndyFitz> ill be more conservative next time
[01:37] <jbailey> Yeah, this is another 'thinks I've registered under this email address when I really haven't' bug.
[01:56] <haggai> jbailey: is there a javadoc replacement in gcj somewhere?
[01:57] <jbailey> haggai: gjdoc is in classpath-tools.
[01:57] <haggai> jbailey: cool thank you
[01:58] <jbailey> haggai: It's in our list of things to upload and get in, but we're stuck behind java on ppc issues.  Hopefully resolved RSN.
[01:59] <haggai> jbailey: ah, I see
[02:03] <daniels> great, bug in discover1 preventing installation in some cases.  hooray!!
[02:04] <Treenaks> 3 cheers for $uploader!
[02:06] <daniels> i wonder if i should just piss discover1 off and move us to my 100-line python script that reads the same format
[02:06] <daniels> and *doesn't* break crap
[02:07] <jordi> discover[12]  is annoying.
[02:08] <jordi> daniels: so Hoary does discover? warty didn't, right?
[02:09] <jbailey> daniels: What cases does your script cover that hotplug on its own doesn't?
[02:12] <daniels> jordi: yes, complete shit
[02:12] <daniels> jordi: hoary uses discover in xserver-xorg postinst, just like xserver-xfree86 in warty and debian
[02:12] <daniels> jbailey: there's no way to go to hotplug and say 'hey, so y'know my video cards, right, what driver should I use for those?'
[02:13] <daniels> jbailey: that's the only reason discover1 is in main right now
[02:14] <Treenaks> daniels: shouldn't hotplug say "Hey! There's a videocard here.. *do magic*"
[02:14] <haggai> jbailey: is there any plan to get ant in main?
[02:14] <jbailey> daniels: You mean for touching the X config?
[02:14] <daniels> jbailey: yeah
[02:15] <daniels> Treenaks: no, because we don't ever want to find it out except when we want to (i.e. the user wants us to build a configuration)
[02:15] <daniels> even so, it's a biiiig database.
[02:15] <jbailey> haggai: Yes, Java wants to crawl towards main including development environment.  
[02:15] <jbailey> haggai: We're trying to get eclipse in, so it and all of its dependancies.
[02:15] <haggai> jbailey: but I guess not for hoary, right?
[02:16] <jbailey> daniels: I would love to see a discover that didn't insmod things and only touched other configs (sane, X, etc..)
[02:16] <daniels> jbailey: right now we're specifically telling it to not do that
[02:16] <jbailey> haggai: Not realistically, no.  At this point we're still sorting out the last of the gcc4 issues.  The most recent seems to be libtool breakage.
[02:16] <daniels> jbailey: all it does is walks the PCI bus and lets us know which cards are video cards, and which driver we should use for those
[02:17] <jbailey> Nice!  
[02:17] <daniels> jbailey: that's how we use discover1 right now, and that's what the Python bit does
[02:17] <jbailey> I remember someone asking me how ugly it would be to change their video card out.  Cool to know that's handled.
[02:17] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/discover.py
[02:17] <haggai> jbailey: ok, thanks.  OOo needs ant for some parts so that make the job harder for hoary
[02:17] <jbailey> haggai: Ah, bugger.
[02:18] <daniels> bear in mind that I've not really given this a clean-up, it was just sort of incrementally written in a hurry
[02:18] <daniels> jbailey: 'badly'.  the idea is for the XKeepsCrashing handler in gdm to re-run discover(.py), compare the results to a cache and say 'shit dude, your hardware's changed, I'm going to try to automatically reconfigure it'; if *that* fails, start up in VESA or something.
[02:19] <daniels> jbailey: this shouldn't actually be very hard to write at all.
[02:24] <daniels> word.
[02:30] <Evaso> hi pitti any news about pktcdvd and pmount?
[02:30] <pitti> Evaso: Hi again
[02:30] <pitti> Evaso: just missed you in #d-devel :-)
[02:30] <pitti> Evaso: sorry, I did not yet have time to try it out
[02:30] <Evaso> i had found what is probably the issue
[02:30] <daniels> mdz: aha!  worked out that bastard problem where we weren't prompting for the keyboard layout if we were totally stuck and just had a random guess at us
[02:31] <daniels> mdz: if it wasn't for this, most everyone would've seen a keyboard layout prompt
[02:32] <dredg> does this mean that next time i install ubuntu X won't default to 'us'? :)
[02:32] <Evaso> pitti: the problem is that for cd inserted in a cd/dvd burining device that are udf fromatted there must be mount the /dev/pktcdvd/x unity instead of /dev/hdx 
[02:32] <sivang> hi all
[02:32] <Treenaks> hey siv
[02:32] <daniels> dredg: depends on when you install it ;) but yes
[02:32] <dredg> daniels: good good :)
[02:33] <daniels>   * Ensure that we prompt at priority critical if we can't properly guess the
[02:33] <Evaso> pitti: pmount try to mount only the hdx device.. is it possible to make a selective mount with pmount?
[02:33] <daniels>     keyboard layout, although we shouldn't have to guess.
[02:33] <sivang> hey Treenaks 
[02:33] <pitti> Evaso: you can try to mount the pktdvd device with pmount
[02:34] <pitti> Evaso: however, hal probably only recognizes the /dev/hdX device
[02:34] <pitti> Evaso: and gnome-volume-manager only listens to hal
[02:34] <daniels> jbailey: note in particular the little-to-no error handling :)
[02:35] <Evaso> pitti: but: 1) we mount every time only the /dev/pktcdvd/x devices for buring unity also if the cd/dvd inserted is not udf formatted or we must to do a selective mount and control the fs type of the media inserted
[02:36] <Evaso> pitti: the pktcdvd device are mapped on a real /dev/hdx device
[02:36] <pitti> Evaso: per-filesystem mount should be reasonably easy, pmount already does this partially
[02:37] <Evaso> pitti: this could be the best solution, if u had udftools installed u can see the mapping configuration from here: /etc/default/udftools
[02:37] <jbailey> daniels: ;)
[02:38] <Evaso> pitti: udftools already use udev for devices
[02:38] <pitti> Evaso: it does? that's cool, then it should already be integrated with sysfs
[02:39] <brainZzZ> when i select that it says that it should already be correctly installed
[02:41] <Evaso> pitti: yes is integrated in sysfs
[02:41] <pitti> cool
[02:42] <Evaso> pitti: /sys/block/pktcdvd0 /sys/module/pktcdvd
[02:42] <pitti> Evaso: what does /sys/block/pktcdvd0/removable contain?
[02:42] <zul> hey
[02:42] <pitti> Hi zul
[02:43] <Evaso> pitti: 1
[02:43] <zul> hey pitti 
[02:43] <Kamion> elmo: could you promote system-config-kickstart's dependencies (hwdata, localechooser-data) to main, please?
[02:43] <pitti> Evaso: yay
[02:43] <pitti> Evaso: then it should actually be possible to pmount /dev/pktcdvd0/x
[02:44] <pitti> Evaso: is it?
[02:45] <Evaso> pitti: do u mean /dev/pktcdvd/x in my case /dev/pktcdvd/0?
[02:45] <pitti> Evaso: err, yes
[02:45] <Evaso> pitti: yes pmount manually work
[02:45] <pitti> cool
[02:46] <Evaso> pitti: the problem is only that automatically pmount mount /dev/hdx also when the cd inserted in the burning unity is and udf formatted cd/dvd
[02:47] <pitti> Evaso: yes, i'm aware of that. So either this requires hal support, or an ugly hack in pmount-hal
[02:48] <Evaso> pitti: so this is becoming only an hal upstream improvments?
[02:49] <seb128> jdub: here .
[02:49] <seb128> ?
[02:49] <pitti> Evaso: do you want to help me with this?
[02:49] <Evaso> pitti: yes, sure
[02:49] <pitti> Evaso: if you find an algorithm/a C code snippet which tells me if a /dev/hdx has an associated /dev/pktcdvd/y?
[02:49] <pitti> Evaso: then I can integrate it into pmount-hal
[02:50] <pitti> Evaso: I can also do this myself, but I'm swamped currently and this might take a while
[02:50] <pitti> Evaso: if I have this, then pmount-hal can take the pkt device instead of the normal CD-ROM device
[02:50] <pitti> Evaso: as a workaround until hal supports this properly
[02:51] <sladen> abelli: there's a wiki page called Ubuntu Artwork with the colour palette in it
[02:51] <jdub> seb128: yo
[02:52] <Evaso> pitti: actually the pktcdvd module is drived by the mapping in /etc/default/udftools
[02:52] <pitti> Evaso: how does this file look like?
[02:52] <Evaso> pitti: for example DEVICES="/dev/hdc"
[02:52] <seb128> jdub: about gnome-app-install ... is there an update planned to get all the deskop files ?
[02:53] <jdub> seb128: yes, data package will hit in the next couple of days
[02:53] <seb128> k
[02:53] <jdub> which will result in some bugs to fix ;)
[02:53] <seb128> should I update the menu now to include it ?
[02:54] <Evaso> pitti: so for example DEVICES="/dev/hdc /dev/hdd" is mapped as /dev/pktcdvd/0 /dev/pktcdvd/1 etc. etc.
[02:54] <pitti> Evaso: that's everything?
[02:54] <pitti> Evaso: okay, so I check whether the corresponding pktcdvd device exists and just use it if present
[02:54] <jdub> seb128: yeah, please
[02:54] <Evaso> pitti: no there is only an exception: the directive NEWINTNAMES=
[02:54] <seb128> k
[02:55] <jdub> seb128: hrm, actualaly
[02:55] <jdub> seb128: let's not do that until we have the data package
[02:55] <jdub> seb128: at least it's already in system tools for now
[02:55] <seb128> k
[02:55] <seb128> BTW I'm reluctant for the session changes
[02:55] <seb128> we don't have good icons
[02:55] <seb128> we don't have translations
[02:55] <jdub> langpack updates :-)
[02:55] <jdub> icons we can do
[02:56] <seb128> yeah, we have the language packs, but the really is that we don't include custom translations for the moment
[02:56] <Evaso> pitti: as default if not specified is NEWINTNAMES="0 1 2 3" so for example DEVICES="/dev/hdc /dev/hdd /dev/hde" become /dev/pktcdvd/0 /dev/pktcdvd/1 /dev/pktcdvd/2 /dev/pktcdvd/3
[02:56] <jdub> as soon as it goes in, we can make that happen though
[02:56] <seb128> I'll do the french one, but I'm sure that's going to bit us for a lot of languages
[02:56] <pitti> Evaso: what can NEWINTNAMES contain?
[02:56] <brainZzZ> or else soon as it goes over like 35c it will run full blast
[02:57] <jdub> seb128: only slightly joking -> it'll be a good demonstration of langpack updates :-)
[02:57] <seb128> yeah, I don't doubt of the langpack updates
[02:57] <tseng> hm hope we get a f-spot release before then. it has a .desktop file now
[02:57] <seb128> I just doubt than we will get a good level of translation for that in rosetta
[02:58] <Evaso> pitti: but i could set NEWINTNAMES for example like this DEVICE="/dev/hdd /dev/sr0" NEWINTNAMES="cdwriter dvdwriter", then /dev/hdd will correspond to /dev/pktcdvd/cdwriter, and /dev/sr0 will correspond to /dev/pktcdvd/dvdwriter 
[02:58] <pitti> Evaso: what if NEWINTNAMES only specifies two devices, but DEVICE specifies more?
[02:58] <pitti> Evaso: is there already a helper program which evaluates the conffile?
[02:59] <Evaso> pitti: that the other devices are mapped as default
[02:59] <pitti> Evaso: which then starts with e. g. 2 or 0?
[03:00] <seb128> jdub: k, if you want to get the changes in the session dialog please try to get us some nice icons :)
[03:01] <Kamion> where's the documentation of the .desktop file format, and how categories work, that sort of thing?
[03:01] <Evaso> pitti: pktsetup -s show alway the device mapping
[03:01] <pitti> Evaso: ah, cool
[03:02] <Evaso> pitti: for example pktsetup -s as output i coudl have: 0 : 254:0 -> 22:0
[03:02] <jdub> Kamion: freedesktop.org
[03:03] <seb128> jdub: have you read the mail about the nautilus' patch for the drag and drop from the folder list ?
[03:03] <mx|gone> seb128: thanks for applying my patch for gstreamer :)
[03:03] <jdub> Kamion: the desktop spec and the menu spec
[03:03] <jdub> seb128: no
[03:03] <seb128> mx|gone: np, thanks for noticing the issue :)
[03:03] <Kamion> ah, it's on fd.o, yeah, just found it
[03:03] <Kamion> thanks
[03:03] <mx|gone> seb128: I didn't notice it until I started working on audio stuff for coaster :)
[03:03] <Evaso> pitti: it think we could reuse this output for pmount-hal
[03:04] <mx|gone> seb128: anyway, np about the patch... it was pretty straightforward :)
[03:04] <seb128> jdub:http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2005-February/msg00030.html
[03:04] <pitti> Evaso: patches appreciated :-)
[03:04] <mx|gone> gotta get to work :)
[03:04] <Evaso> pitti: sorry but i doesn't know c
[03:05] <pitti> Evaso: okay, I'll try to look into this soon
[03:05] <seb128> jdub: "looks good" according to alex, I'm tempted to include it to the nautilus package ...
[03:05] <pitti> Evaso: in the meantime, can you please open a bug report about this and include soem info (like your mapping and the steps to make it work)
[03:05] <Evaso> pitti: could i open in debian?
[03:06] <pitti> Evaso: yes, for my sake
[03:06] <pitti> Evaso: I don't mind if it's ubuntu or debian
[03:06] <Evaso> pitti: ok actually ubuntu/debian had the same problem :)
[03:06] <jdub> seb128: urgh, seems really strange.
[03:07] <seb128> why ?
[03:07] <jdub> oh no
[03:07] <jdub> that's going to guarantee that it never become an option menu
[03:08] <seb128> an option menu ?
[03:09] <jdub> you currently have to click to get the menu
[03:09] <jdub> not just mouse down
[03:09] <jdub> if it becomes draggable, it definitely couldn't be mousedown only
[03:09] <seb128> you want an auto-open on focus thing ?
[03:09] <jdub> no
[03:10] <jdub> mousedown on the button
[03:10] <jdub> no menu
[03:10] <seb128> oh
[03:10] <Kamion> hm, I can't think of good categories for system-config-kickstart
[03:10] <Kamion> I had GNOME;Development, but that puts it in a Programming menu
[03:11] <jdub> Kamion: GNOME;Application;System;Utility;
[03:11] <jdub> that's a start
[03:11] <wasabi> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=19506&file1=19506-1.png&file2=19506-2.png&file3=19506-3.png&name=Pinux%27s+Tux+Cursors+Theme&PHPSESSID=9e7da778d0f682b9f20c4a5f1c3da80e
[03:12] <wasabi> Those bottom ones should be ours. =)
[03:12] <Kamion> but ok
[03:12] <Kamion> ok, seems to end up in System Tools now, which is probably better, thanks
[03:13] <kent> wasabi, im using those right now. They are nice!
[03:24] <tseng> hey, what does the "preview freeze" mean to universe? I dont seem to see a -devel post mentioning it from a search on freeze
[03:25] <Evaso> pitti: i had found in /etc/udev/permissions.d/udev.permissions pktcdvd/*:root:cdrom:0660 pktcdvd/control:root:root:0644
[03:25] <jdub> tseng: universe continues to be quite relaxed. these final freezes are worth using, however.
[03:25] <Evaso> pitti: this devices is already managed by hal?
[03:25] <pitti> Evaso: hal != udev
[03:25] <tseng> jdub: ok good, i have a few things id like to fix myself, and python updates are still progressing
[03:25] <Evaso> pitti: i know
[03:26] <Evaso> pitti: but if there are already in udev is possible there there is somthing in hal cvs
[03:27] <pitti> Evaso: I'm not aware of anything like that
[03:35] <jbailey> doko: ping?
[03:36] <doko> jbailey: pong
[03:36] <jbailey> doko: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-cvs/2005-02/msg01061.html claims to fix libjava bug, committed about 20 minutes ago.
[03:39] <doko> ohh, ok, I'll update the snapshot first ...
[03:39] <jbailey> doko: Thanks!
[03:47] <Keybuk> . o O { why does g-v-m _always_ segfault when I do an update? }
[03:56] <trulux> any difference between Warty kernel tree patches and such and Hoary's one?
[03:59] <zul> trulux: yes alot
[04:07] <jdub> Keybuk: mail for you on u-d, forgot to cc
[04:09] <tritium> What's up trulux?  How's the paper?
[04:09] <Keybuk> jdub: cc would've been /dev/null'd anyway :p
[04:20] <daniels> rburton: hey captain :)
[04:21] <rburton> hi daniels 
[04:21] <seb128> pitti: around ?
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: always to your service :)
[04:22] <seb128> :)
[04:22] <seb128> not sure on how to get useful details for the hal/gvm issue
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: I just meant, is the bug still reproducible for you with the latest kernel?
[04:22] <seb128> I've killed gvm and started it from the command line some days ago
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: without ibreakify?
[04:23] <seb128> it displays like 1 line every few second
[04:23] <pitti> seb128: g-v-m ^ ?
[04:23] <seb128> yep
[04:23] <pitti> seb128: which line?
[04:34] <Goshawk> booting the system i read: "entering runlevel 2" does anybody know something about the script/program that generates it? . The problem is that if i chvt 8 while booting this line (and others above) are written on vt8 and not in tty1 as all the others line are (this is a issue needed by usplash)
[04:37] <pitti> thom: ping
[04:37] <thom> pitti: hello
[04:37] <pitti> thom: Hi, howdy
[04:37] <pitti> thom: just evaluated #6002 with seb128 again
[04:37] <pitti> thom: he and ogra had similar problems
[04:38] <pitti> thom: but they seem to be gone with the latest kernel inotify fix
[04:38] <thom> i'll test it when i reboot again, then
[04:38] <pitti> thom: okay, cool. Thanks
[04:39] <pitti> thom: please watch out for dmesg thinks like "hal.hotplug[5759] : timout(10000 ms) waiting for /bus/pci/slots"
[04:40] <sivang> seb128: could you tell me why the resulting menu interface of gnome-cups-manager differs in it's "Edit" menu drop drastically then the one that's available when editing the glade file in the designer? it has 1 additional "Properties". 
[04:40] <seb128> sivang: probably because the code does some changes 
[04:41] <sivang> seb128: argh, ok, I'll check the code again. 
[04:41] <brainZzZ> cool. i'll check the map
[04:42] <sivang> seb128: I also tried adding one item through the designer, bu then the whole item list for "Edit" changed. weird stuff
[04:43] <mdz> daniels: nearly everyone seeing a second keyboard layout prompt isn't very nice...it seems like we're not guessing as well as we were in Warty
[04:47] <jbailey> Goshawk: Best guess is that it's init writing it to /dev/console
[04:48] <Goshawk> jbailey, yes.. but the strange thing is that init writes its, why not all the messages are writtend in tty8?
[04:49] <Goshawk> there are some lines in tty1 and some in tty8
[04:50] <Goshawk> and in tty1 there are not only kernel messages, but also rc scripts output (managed by init)
[04:50] <jbailey> Goshawk: I don't know when tty1 is created, I'd have to look at the code.  rc scripts would probably be spawned against /dev/tty1
[04:51] <Goshawk> yes, it calls something as: log_begin_msg "Starting $DESC: $NAME"
[04:52] <Goshawk> usplash is going to be ready... (i've now implemented bar) so if we need to ad it in ubuntu we should fix this error
[04:53] <jbailey> Runlevel information isn't terribly useful.  'quiet' should probably silence sysvinit messages too then.
[04:53] <Goshawk> jbailey, no.. i need them in tty1
[04:53] <Goshawk> since usplash reads from it
[04:53] <jbailey> Oh, I see.
[04:53] <Goshawk> but all in tty1
[04:53] <Goshawk> ^__^
[04:53] <daniels> mdz: not really.  there were two bugs: one was that we were testing for LANG="en_AU" f.e. (guess how well that works with UTF-8), the other was that if we couldn't guess, the prompt wouldn't get shown.
[04:54] <Goshawk> usplash reads from dev/vcs1 to upgrade bars
[04:54] <daniels> mdz: the former has been solved by stripping out all qualifiers (@euro, .UTF-8) prior to testing $LANG; the latter has been solved also.
[04:54] <jbailey> Goshawk: Bars, like progress bars?
[04:54] <Goshawk> it is capable of paste any kind of image
[04:54] <Goshawk> jbailey, sure
[04:54] <daniels> mdz: but I 'solved' the latter (only not, in some cases) first, so everyone would see it.  but now with solving both, we're back to exactly where we were with warty.  huzzah.
[04:54] <Goshawk> jbailey, excuse my bad english
[04:55] <Goshawk> if(text.find("Starting hotplug") != string::npos)
[04:55] <Goshawk>         {
[04:55] <Goshawk> 	  hotplug = true;
[04:55] <Goshawk> 	  background.draw(DrawableRectangle(device.xbar_min,30, device.xbar_min+30,50));
[04:55] <Goshawk> 	    background.write("/dev/fb0");
[04:55] <daniels> mdz: there's a discussion with myself and smurfix about making this less completely shit in your inbox
[04:55] <mdz> daniels: yes, I see it
[04:55] <mdz> daniels: can you upload xorg today?
[04:56] <daniels> mdz: no, I'm about to go to sleep
[04:56] <daniels> mdz: my target is tuesday, which I expect to be able to hold to
[04:56] <mdz> daniels: array 6 is wednesday
[04:57] <mdz> and you have ~25 days worth of xorg changes queued up
[04:57] <daniels> mdz: (tuesday night being my dropdead; i'm confident enough that everything works, modulo having tested builds on all the different architectures, to upload it then.)
[04:57] <daniels> mdz: agh
[04:57] <daniels> mdz: understood -- obviously about 14 days of those were lost to multiseat, however (tracking down bugs in binary drivers with no spec sheets is not my idea of fun)
[04:57] <mdz> did I mention preview freeze?
[04:57] <daniels> tell me that's not wednesday ...
[04:57] <mdz> yes
[04:57] <daniels> frig.
[04:58] <daniels> well, domestic duties are keeping me up late (it's already >3pm) anyway, so I might as well kick off test builds on davis and halley (builds and works ok on amd64 and i386)
[04:58] <zul> mdz: so no new features allowed after wednesday?
[04:59] <sivang> zul: bew features are already not allowed AFAIK ;-)
[04:59] <sivang> s/bew/new/
[04:59] <zul> ok thats what i thought
[05:00] <sivang> zul: we are past UVF , that is.
[05:00] <jbailey> Goshawk: Does it say precisely "entering runlevel 2"? 
[05:01] <daniels> oh, ugh, need to upload a new .orig.tar.gz
[05:01] <mdz> zul: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PreviewFreeze
[05:01] <Goshawk> yes!
[05:01] <mdz> zul: confirmed changes only
[05:01] <Goshawk> jbailey, yep
[05:01] <Goshawk> wait
[05:01] <pitti> Hi mdz
[05:01] <mdz> sivang: FeatureFreeze is the relevant state here
[05:01] <mdz> pitti: morning
[05:02] <Goshawk> then: "Saving VESA state"
[05:02] <sivang> mdz: hrm, right :)
[05:02] <jbailey> Goshawk: Bah.  The E is capital. ;)  Added -i to my grep. =)
[05:02] <Goshawk> then : "Starting system log daemon"
[05:03] <Goshawk> :-)
[05:03] <Goshawk> just switch to tty1 and all the lines above "runlevel 2" are written in /dev/cosole instead of tty1
[05:03] <Goshawk> (it seems)
[05:04] <jbailey> Goshawk: I'm not sure the right way to do this.  I'm guessing we'd have to 1) Create tty1 in the initrd, 2) Make sure that there was noone watching on anything other than the screen, so that serial console doesn't lose data.
[05:04] <brainZzZ> if cbs showed anything other than the kennedy funeral in the sixties theyd be off the air now
[05:05] <enrico> hello.  I'm trying to put scrollkeeper .omf files in a multi-binary source package: how do I tell dh_scrollkeeper to install only some omf files in the package?
[05:05] <daniels> mdz: new orig uploading, which scp seems to think will take nigh on an hour; i'll run test builds around as soon as I can, and if they all pass, I'll upload on the grounds that it fixes enough important stuff that any regressions I haven't caught are likely to be minor in comparison
[05:05] <Kamion> zul: speaking of freezes, any idea when I can expect the next kernel upload?
[05:05] <Goshawk> jbailey, i dont' think that creating tty1 by initrd will solve the problem... 
[05:05] <daniels> mdz: sorry it's taken so long, but multiseat totally threw my schedule in every way (not just work)
[05:06] <Goshawk> btw.. i'm gonna continue developing usplash...
[05:06] <mdz> I know
[05:06] <zul> Kamion: have to talk to lamont, did you have a look at that sata atapi cd-rom bug? 
[05:06] <jbailey> Goshawk: It would have to be before init was started if you wanted all of init's messages to go to a particular console.
[05:06] <zul> Kamion: probably thursday will be the upload data
[05:07] <brainZzZ> take a look at that
[05:07] <Goshawk> jbailey, they are already there
[05:07] <Kamion> zul: I would much rather have it before preview freeze
[05:07] <Goshawk> jbailey, all the mesages remains in tty1
[05:07] <zul> Kamion: talk to lamont though he is the one who does the uploads
[05:07] <mdz> daniels: please send me a copy of your xorg changelog
[05:07] <Goshawk> only those that are belove "runlevel 2" are in /dev/console
[05:07] <mdz> maybe we should just delay it until after preview
[05:07] <jbailey> Goshawk: Oh, really?  Hmm.
[05:07] <Goshawk> jbailey, it could be a configuration problem
[05:08] <Goshawk> nothing important
[05:08] <Kamion> mdz: I don't think we can preview with that keyboard misconfig bug
[05:08] <Goshawk> but we have to change it
[05:08] <jbailey> zul: do you need me to track down whether the hotplug event is every actually sent?  I don't see how we could be ignoring it.  The code's pretty simple.
[05:08] <jbailey> zul: Or... hmmm.
[05:08] <Kamion> zul: you mean #1440?
[05:08] <zul> jbailey: yes please
[05:08] <zul> Kamion: yep
[05:08] <jbailey> zul: It's the root driver.  There would have to be some further magic probably.
[05:09] <Goshawk> jbailey, try to put a simple script S01chvt with "chvt 8 " command into /etc/rcS.d/ and you will see more about that problem
[05:09] <mdz> Kamion: I'm inclined to agree, but we are limited by daniels' physical stamina as well
[05:09] <jbailey> zul: We probably load the SATA stuff in the initrd, and the harddisk driver.  No cdrom driver available at that point, and probably no coldplugging events for the scsi bus later.
[05:10] <Kamion> mdz: there's always the option of having *just* that change, which would be much smaller and pretty easily tested
[05:10] <zul> jbailiey: hmm...do what you ahve to do ;)
[05:10] <mdz> daniels: how much work would that be?
[05:12] <Kamion> mdz: re #5732, do you mean that just a udevstart after each time we run the hotplug scripts would fix it?
[05:12] <daniels> mdz: keyboard misconfig is hopefully solved
[05:12] <daniels> kami	xorg 6.8.1
[05:12] <daniels> er
[05:12] <mdz> Kamion: in this case, one udevstart after cdrom-detect would fix it
[05:12] <daniels> Kamion: xorg 6.8.2 is in all the custom cds we made; it may solve the livecd keyboard misdetection bug
[05:12] <Kamion> udevstart is generally safe to run, isn't it?
[05:12] <mdz> Kamion: well, after the hoptlug bits and before the actually-using-the-device-bits of cdrom-detect
[05:13] <daniels> Kamion: aiui, the only real keyboard problems we had were with the live cd; is there anything wrong with the install system?
[05:13] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[05:13] <mdz> I could imagine that it might get confused if you hotplug certain types of devices while udevstart is running, but mostly it's idempotent, and hotplugging devices while the installer is detecting hardware is pathological
[05:13] <Kamion> daniels: well, people generally get the wrong keyboard on installation as well due to $LANG containing .UTF-8, AIUI
[05:14] <daniels> Kamion: right -- we prune .UTF-8 now
[05:14] <Kamion> daniels: that's what I meant
[05:14] <daniels> (specifically: MYLANG=${LANG%%@euro}\nMYLANG=${MYLANG%%.UTF-8}
[05:14] <mdz> array 6 is our best chance to get this fix tested for preview
[05:14] <mdz> so it needs to be on there, one way or another
[05:14] <daniels> yeah, which is why my uplink is saturated with the .orig.tar.gz
[05:15] <Kamion> (the double % is redundant-though-harmless, by the way)
[05:15] <daniels> Kamion: is it still posh-or-whatever-cracked-out-crap-we-have-in-the-installer compliant?
[05:15] <Kamion> yes
[05:15] <daniels> actually, nevermind, doesn't get hit until the installed system
[05:15] <mdz> daniels: why  isn't the .orig.tar.gz identical to upstream's?
[05:15] <Kamion> the installer uses busybox, not posh
[05:15] <daniels> mdz: non-free fonts and shit.  also, thanks to dbs, the .orig.tar.gz contains a copy of the upstream tarball./
[05:16] <daniels> mdz: so xorg_6.8.2.orig.tar.gz contains xorg-6.8.2/xorg-6.8.2.tar.gz, which is a pruned copy of X11R6.8.2-src.tar.gz
[05:16] <mdz> gah, right
[05:16] <daniels> it'll apparently be done in 34min now, anyway
[05:16] <daniels> which time I will finish cleaning
[05:19] <Kamion> zul: re #1974, I don't get the error messages in syslog any more (nor the status messages, come to that), and it seems to be trying to work, but the card can't associate to my AP
[05:20] <zul> thats the wirelesss one correct?
[05:20] <brainZzZ> it seems to be more deadly
[05:21] <Kamion> zul: yeah
[05:22] <Kamion> brainZzZ: are you a bot?
[05:23] <brainZzZ> hey mule... are you a bot?
[05:23] <Kamion> can somebody kick the bot, please?
[05:23] <Kamion> thanks
[05:26] <bradb> can anyone give me an example of one named binary package that is built from a different named source packages for different arches? i'm trying to include a non-contrived example of such a case in a document i'm writing.
[05:26] <mdz> amu: ping?
[05:30] <mdz> amu: are those KDE issues fixed so that the Kubuntu packages can move into main?
[05:37] <mdz> pitti: your at changes seem to have worked well; I had an at job queued before the upgrade, which ran after the upgrade with no problems
[05:38] <pitti> mdz: cool
[05:38] <pitti> mdz: I extensively tested it at my machine, worked fine for me too
[05:38] <pitti> mdz: however, I did not check the inter-version at jobs that you did; thanks for testing
[05:40] <mdz> pitti: let's leave the rest for hoary+1, though, ok? ;-)
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: "rest" -> derooting targets?
[05:41] <mdz> pitti: yes
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: ack
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: there aren't any easy ones left anyway
[05:41] <mdz> I agree
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: btw, what do you think about Sivan's g-cups-manager UI mods? Are they still appropriate for Hoary if I scrutinize the patch?
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: and given that sivang manages to get it ready before preview freeze?
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: (adding a checkbox to enable CUPS browsing)
[05:43] <mdz> pitti: URL?
[05:43] <pitti> sivang: ^ which bug was it? you reassigned it to you
[05:44] <pitti> mdz: #2251
[05:46] <mdz> pitti: it seems too complex to push in at this late hour
[05:46] <pitti> mdz: it's only UI, the backend part is already in
[05:46] <mdz> pitti: if you are confident that it cannot break any existing functionality, and it can be in for array 6...
[05:46] <pitti> mdz: but okay, your call. sivan can prepare the patch nevertheless for hoary+1
[05:46] <zul> bbl...lunch
[05:46] <mdz> well, I was thinking post-preview actually
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: ah, even better :-)
[05:47] <mdz> since this is not strictly a feature, but partly a bug
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: okay, then I can review and test the patch extensively and upload it after preview
[05:47] <mdz> pitti: have you and sivang discussed how it should work in the UI?
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: in any case it is now much easier to get browsing
[05:47] <mdz> I suppose if the user requests to enable browsing, it will ask for the sudo password and restart CUPS?
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: yes, pretty extensively
[05:47] <mdz> doesn't restarting CUPS crash gnome-cups-manager?
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: if it crashes it, then it's probably nothing for Hoary
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: it will basically call "gksudo /usr/share/cups/enable_browsing 1"
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: (or 0, if disabling)
[05:49] <mdz> pitti: I have seen it crash several times when I restart cups; it is easy enough to test
[05:49] <pitti> mdz: hmm, never occurred to me
[05:50] <pitti> mdz: any special activities in g-c-m to make it crash on cupsys restart?
[05:50] <mdz> I can't reproduce it now; maybe it was fixed, or possibly it doesn't happen every time
[05:50] <seb128> pitti: double click on a printer
[05:50] <seb128> keep the dialog open
[05:50] <seb128> restart
[05:50] <seb128> it crashes pretty often
[05:50] <rburton> pitti: if you are playing with g-c-m i don't suppose you want to take it over in sid too? :)
[05:51] <pitti> rburton: is it orphaned?
[05:51] <rburton> pitti: well, not really. but i'm a bad maintainer
[05:51] <rburton> i need to take a day and run through the bugs and patches from upstream and ubunut
[05:51] <seb128> this stuff needs some real work
[05:51] <pitti> seb128: I can't reproduce the crash (of course, because I want to see it happen...)
[05:52] <seb128> I've got it like 5 times it 10 cupsys restart 
[05:52] <seb128> just run g-c-m
[05:52] <seb128> double click on a printer
[05:52] <seb128> restart cupsys
[05:53] <seb128> pitti: http://rafb.net/paste/results/2qkAV085.html
[05:53] <pitti> seb128: worked in 5/5 cases :-(
[05:53] <seb128> lucky you
[05:54] <pitti> oh, cool backtrace
[05:54] <seb128> :)
[05:54] <seb128> I can get one with debug stuff
[05:54] <pitti> seb128: could you please attach this to a bug?
[05:54] <seb128> will do
[05:54] <pitti> seb128: I'm currently patching cupsys
[05:54] <seb128> rburton: perhaps robtaylor_ wants to maintain g-c-m ? 
[05:55] <rburton> robtaylor_: you do?
[05:55] <robtaylor_> seb128: did i hear my name taken in vain? ;)
[05:55] <rburton> yay rob
[05:55] <seb128> libgnomeprint* maintainer
[05:55] <seb128> and h's supposed to get some hal work from redhat in the packages 
[05:55] <seb128> I've read that somewhere :)
[05:55] <robtaylor_> *sigh* ok, let me look at qa before i say yes ;)
[05:56] <seb128> rburton: see, you have a winner :)
[05:57] <robtaylor_> hmm, what the hell is *that* doing as  RC?
[05:57] <robtaylor_> rburton: hmm, i'm a bad maintainer too tho ;)
[05:58] <seb128> the current maintainer kind of sucks
[05:58] <rburton> yeah, he is crap
[05:58] <rburton> i'd go as far as pointing out there is a bug with a patch which has been sitting in his inbox for a month
[05:59] <rburton> oooooh
[06:01] <robtaylor_> rburton: well i'm pretty loaded at the moment really (got my new farsight project taking up quite a bit of time) but if i get mo, i'll go though some of the bugs for you ;)
[06:01] <rburton> that would be great
[06:01] <rburton> i'll try to at some point too
[06:01] <robtaylor_> i know the codebase a little, at least ;)
[06:02] <robtaylor_> though not enough to help poor sivang... mabye *he* wants to be the new maintainer ;) ;)
[06:02] <robtaylor_> brb
[06:03] <thom> whiprush: nice article dude; it's good to see *someone* not whining about the firefox theme :-)
[06:06] <thom> elmo: please sync apache from unstable
[06:07] <daniels> mdz: test builds on davis and halley whirring now; feel free to inquire (if there are no processes running from me and there are debs in ~daniels/xorg, it worked) into it while I'm asleep if you like
[06:08] <robtaylor_> back
[06:09] <elmo> thom: apache 1?
[06:09] <dredg> thom: what's wrong with the firefox theme?
[06:10] <thom> elmo: yeah
[06:10] <mdz> daniels: thanks
[06:10] <thom> dredg: nothing IMO, but people seem to like whining about it
[06:11] <elmo> thom: we are going to be able to kick that thing out pre-hoary, right?
[06:11] <thom> yeah
[06:12] <dredg> thom: oh, the 'firefox-now-uses-the-gnome-theme' theme?
[06:12] <dredg> i like that.
[06:12] <dredg> it bugs me when my apps don't look similar
[06:12] <thom> dredg: exactly
[06:18] <daniels> mdz: smses if ftbfs kicks up would probably work well -- i might be uncontactable until about 0500 UTC (totally unavoidably) tomorrow
[06:19] <lamont> moo
[06:20] <robtaylor_> rburton, seb128 : talking of cups, does anyone fancy making the cups package put printers.conf in /var/lib? ;)
[06:22] <mdz> lamont: please monitor daniels' test builds; if they fail, daniels should be SMSed, and if they succeed, they should be published for testing
[06:22] <daniels> published in p.u.c, preferably
[06:22] <daniels> actually, hold on a sec
[06:23] <lamont> daniels: any particular package?
[06:23] <lamont> or just everything you upload?
[06:23] <whiprush> thom: heh, we've waited like four years for better support from mozilla apps and the first thing people whine about is the home icon in the skin. Heh.
[06:24] <daniels> lamont: xorg, yo
[06:24] <daniels> lamont: seems fine on amd64 and i386 locally, but test builds are running around on davis and halley
[06:24] <daniels> lamont: should they succeed, if you could dput xorg_6.8.2-1_source.changes from rookery:~daniels, it would be much appreciated
[06:25] <Kamion> bradb: that's been the case for libgcc1 in Debian in the past, I think, although it doesn't seem to be at the moment
[06:26] <Kamion> can some kernel folks have a look at http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/kernel/tags/kernel/powerpc/2.6.8-10/debian/post-install?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 ?
[06:26] <Kamion> it'll need to be hacked a little to take effect only on powerpc
[06:27] <lamont> daniels: are the builds going to a file, or are we keying off the existance of .debs in ~daniels/xorg?
[06:30] <mdz> elmo: is something weird going on with python2.3-apt?  for some reason it's at 0.5.32ubuntu6 in the archive, though a python2.3-apt version 0.5.36 was produced by the most recent build
[06:30] <mdz> lamont: <daniels> mdz: test builds on davis and halley whirring now; feel free to inquire (if there are no processes running from me and there are debs in ~daniels/xorg, it worked) into it while I'm asleep if you like
[06:31] <elmo> python2.3-apt |     0.5.36 | hoary/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[06:31] <elmo> mdz: ?
[06:31] <lamont> mdz: roger
[06:32] <lamont> grumble. davis has 2 dpkg-buildpackage processes running
[06:32] <elmo> this is why we give porting boxes two CPUs :P
[06:33] <lamont> elmo: I was trying to tell which was which.  :-)
[06:36] <pitti> seb128: where are the translations of the panel main menu?
[06:37] <mdz> mizar:[~]  grep-dctrl -FPackage python2.3-apt /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_hoary_main_binary-i386_Packages
[06:37] <mdz> zsh: exit 1     grep-dctrl -FPackage python2.3-apt
[06:37] <mdz> elmo: ^^
[06:37] <elmo>  < elmo> python2.3-apt |     0.5.36 | hoary/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[06:37] <mdz> elmo: the 0.5.32ubuntu6 is 'actually the version I have installed
[06:37] <elmo>                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: don't
[06:38] <mdz> elmo: apparently it hasn't made it to the US mirror, which is where my universe points
[06:39] <elmo> oh, right, yeah - the mirrors got a bit beat up by the install testing
[06:39] <tseng> the US mirror seemed to fall behind by a good many hours a few times
[06:39] <elmo> as in, syncproxy, err, went away.  I'll make it come back tonight
[06:39] <elmo> it wasn't meant to be down for this wrong, a kernel local root got in the way
[06:39] <mdz> ok
[06:40] <elmo> s/wrong/long/ blah
[06:40] <dredg> this wrong? very engrish :)
[06:44] <T-Bone> hi
[06:44] <thom> elmo: thanks
[06:45] <elmo> argh.  iproute added an 'ss' command.  the bastards.
[06:46] <Kamion> what were you using ss for?
[06:46] <T-Bone> yum :P
[06:46] <T-Bone> Kamion: i suppose elmo refers to WWII
[06:46] <elmo> Kamion: 'ss' in MSM Mumps is the equivalent of 'ps aux' and it's like ENTIRELY ingrained into me - I type that command while idling
[06:47] <thom> what the heck is MSM Mumps?
[06:47] <Kamion> well done for finding an environment I'd never managed to hear of before
[06:48] <elmo> okay, syncproxy.u.c is back - us.a.u.c will catch up shortly
[06:49] <elmo> thom: Mumps or 'M' is a obscure weird database environment/language mostly used in financial and medical sectors
[06:49] <thom> elmo: ah
[06:53] <seb128> elmo: glib2.0 sync from debian incoming please
[06:54] <lamont> elmo: neat.  they've reinvented netstat -an
[06:55] <daniels> right, goodnight
[06:56] <daniels> lamont: mobile number's in Offices/DanielStone
[06:56] <lamont> daniels: right
[06:57] <lamont> davis should finish around 
[06:57] <lamont> 30 min from now, give or take
[06:57] <lamont> modulo the other build
[06:58] <lamont> haley needs about another hour, assuming it's otherwise idle.
[07:00] <mdz> lamont: are there enough bits in that directory that we can do an upload without daniels if everything checks out?
[07:04] <daniels> mdz: yeah, there's a signed -1_source.changes and -1.d{iff.gz,sc}
[07:04] <daniels> mdz: extra testing would be hugely appreciated though, I've only done testing on my setups
[07:05] <lamont> mdz: if it works, yes.  If not, well, I'm not sure we'll have error logs
[07:05] <lamont> daniels: I assume that the dpkg-buildpackage output is just going to your terminal?
[07:06] <mdz> daniels: I plan to download and test powerpc and amd64
[07:06] <mdz> daniels: and you're supposed to be asleep
[07:07] <tseng> daniels: you have a .deb I can test?
[07:09] <daniels> lamont: yeah, albeit screen(1)ed, so if you can, you're more than welcome to hijack my screen session
[07:09] <daniels> mdz: note you'll have to build amd64 yourself either from source or on concordia as I was just working off local builds
[07:09] <daniels> mdz: and yes, good point
[07:10] <mdz> which architectures are building?
[07:10] <mdz> lamont: can you kick off a build on concordia?
[07:10] <lamont> halley==ia64, davis==powerpc
[07:11] <lamont> sure
[07:11] <zul> hey again
[07:14] <lamont> mdz: launched
[07:14] <lamont> concordia:~lamont/xorg.out is the log
[07:15] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[07:15] <mdz> an i386 build would be a good idea as well
[07:15] <lamont> ot
[07:15] <mdz> I assumed the two were either amd64+powerpc or i386+<x>
[07:15] <lamont> it'll slow down the amd64 build
[07:16] <lamont> i386 build chroot is on concordia as well
[07:16] <lamont> given that daniels already did local builds of them, I'm inclined to believe them
[07:16] <lamont> since the buildd's are going to rebuild it from scratch anyway
[07:18] <lamont> back in a few
[07:31] <srbaker> anyone know of a half-decent gui for mysql?
[07:31] <zul> mysqlclient
[07:31] <T-Bone> phpmyadmin
[07:31] <srbaker> i can't seem to get phpmyadmin to work on my laptop running hoary
[07:31] <srbaker> although, i ahvent' tried that hard
[07:32] <thom> srbaker: that's a security feature :P

[07:32] <srbaker> thom, hehe
[07:32] <thom> infinity: why are you awake you loony? :-)
[07:35] <infinity> thom : Because everything I'm currently stressing about involves people in other timezones. ;)
[07:35] <thom> heh
[07:36] <infinity> Some day, I'll sleep at night again, and my girlfriend will stop hating me.
[07:47] <Treenaks> infinity: well, sometimes it's better than having a gf who won't LET you sleep at night, even if you want to
[07:56] <lamont> mdz: it built on ppc and amd64, given that daniels built it on i386, any objection if I upload now?
[07:59] <mdz> lamont: I had planned to actually test it on amd64 and powerpc
[07:59] <mdz> lamont: if you can tell me where to start downloading it, I will
[07:59] <lamont> mdz: ah
[08:01] <lamont> people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/xorg has a Packages file
[08:02] <mdz> wow, does that work? (multiple architectures in one Packages file)
[08:02] <infinity> Yup.
[08:02] <infinity> Has since woody or so.
[08:03] <elmo> it's always worked
[08:03] <elmo> experimental use to be that way
[08:03] <infinity> Ahh, then it's the tools to generate things that changed to make it possible, not the tools that parse them. :)
[08:04] <infinity> At least, I think something changed.  Or maybe I'm just on crack.  Potato seems so long ago now.
[08:06] <lamont> mdz: i386 build running, will holler when it's done
[08:06] <mdz> downloading amd64 and powerpc
[08:06] <mdz> need to run out, back in a couple of hours
[08:08] <lamont> infinity: potato _was_ that long ago.
[08:08] <lamont> what, 6 years or something? :-)
[08:14] <sivang> anybody noticed all the gnome menus are duplicated?
[08:15] <sivang> this is in effect since about two last upgrades.
[08:18] <lu_the_extermina> wfm
[08:20] <zul> sivang: i didnt do it
[08:24] <pitti> sivang: iz gtk bug :-)
[08:24] <pitti> sivang: no, really, doesn't happen for me
[08:24] <elmo> thom: I think a two CPU laptop's pretty whack, but maybe that's just me
[08:25] <sivang> pitti: heheh :)
[08:25] <pitti> sivang: any luck with gcm?
[08:25] <Treenaks> thom: that must have HURT to design
[08:25] <sivang> pitti: ok, I rebooted and it got back to normal, weird.
[08:25] <pitti> sivang: you have only very little time for this
[08:25] <thom> elmo: indeed
[08:25] <sivang> pitti: bah, until when?
[08:25] <thom> a dual ultrasparc seems even more whacky than that
[08:26] <pitti> sivang: preview freeze
[08:26] <pitti> sivang: although maybe we skip that feature in the preview and add it after the preview
[08:26] <sivang> pitti: I though it's on 2nd of march no?
[08:26] <pitti> sivang: but it should be ready nevertheless so we can test it
[08:26] <pitti> sivang: right, that's wed
[08:27] <sivang> pitti: ok, that gives about the next 48 hours to work on it approx. 
[08:27] <pitti> sivang: AFAIUI the single major blocker is the weird behaviour if you modify the glade file?
[08:28] <sivang> pitti: yup, other stuff should actually work, I am with some upstream people on this, still trying.
[08:28] <sivang> pitti: I mean, I do a glib sync spawn, wait for the return values etc
[08:28] <sivang> pitti: but as long as the whole menu screws when I add some stuff to it using the glade designer, I'm lost.
[08:29] <tritium> mjg59, If I choose "Suspend the computer" from the logout menu, it doesn't require 2 pushes of the power button to resume (which Fn-Esc still does).
[08:29] <pitti> sivang: what about adding the checkbox not to the menu, but into a toolbar?
[08:30] <pitti> sivang: this would be more obious anyway
[08:30] <sivang> pitti: where does g-c-m have a toolbar?
[08:30] <sivang> pitti: AFAIK there's only a menubar
[08:30] <pitti> sivang: it doesn't so far :-)
[08:31] <sivang> pitti: oh :)
[08:31] <pitti> sivang: add it :-)
[08:31] <pitti> sivang: although, if adding to the menu is easy and nonintrusive, then do that 
[08:32] <pitti> sivang: but if you add a toolbar, then we can test the other functionality already
[08:32] <sivang> pitti: right, seb also told me that the gui gets fiddled in runtime by the g-c-m code :-/
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: was there any reason why you wanted a review of "boost"?
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: amu just noticed that it is unnecessary for the kubuntu stuff
[08:33] <sivang> pitti: which might mean the patch need be *intrusive* if it's to be nicely put with the other menu items etc.
[08:33] <pitti> sivang: a toolbar is certainly more independent and less prone to interference with the runtime modification
[08:33] <elmo> pitti: if it was in that list, germinate wants to pull it in 
[08:34] <pitti> elmo: but amu did not find any build-dependencies or binary dependencies
[08:34] <pitti> elmo: how can we find out which package wants it?
[08:34] <sivang> pitti: ok, I'll see about using a toolbar now
[08:34] <pitti> elmo: it's not in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/rdepends/
[08:34] <elmo> pitti: okay, it's not there any more
[08:35] <pitti> oh, brb
[09:13] <trulux> oh no
[09:13] <trulux> 1148 upgraded, 147 newly installed, 27 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[09:13] <trulux> Need to get 794MB of archives.
[09:13] <trulux> After unpacking 217MB of additional disk space will be used.
[09:13] <trulux> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
[09:13] <trulux> jesus
[09:13] <trulux> what's this? :O
[09:13] <trulux> going to upgrade to Hoary
[09:13] <trulux> any major bug around to make feeling like a rat and not doing it?
[09:14] <T-Bone> this is Moore's law applied to dist upgrades ;)
[09:18] <trulux> T-Bone: not kidding, I haven't used Hoary as desktop, only for development ;P
[09:19] <T-Bone> heh. Well then, you know how Hoary looks like :)
[09:20] <sivang> T-Bone: what is moore's law about? :)
[09:21] <T-Bone> sivang: google, "Moore's law" -> I'm feeling lucky ;)
[09:24] <sivang> T-Bone: eh I think I learned about this in deisgn and architecture of digital system, didn't recall the name though :)
[09:25] <T-Bone> heh
[09:26] <T-Bone> in my suggestion i was suggesting that distributions tend to follow the same growth pattern accross upgrades ;)
[09:26] <T-Bone> (doh that sentence was awkward)
[09:26] <sivang> T-Bone: so you probably know Amdhal's law? (this one I remember ;-)
[09:28] <T-Bone> that's an SMP thing iirc?
[09:29] <sivang> T-Bone: am not sure, could be 
[09:41] <jbailey> Anyone here have a SCSI cdrom?  I'm curious how consistant /proc/scsi/scsi is for using in hotplug.
[09:42] <jbailey> T-Bone: Can you /msg me your /proc/scsi/scsi file, stp?
[09:42] <T-Bone> sure
[09:45] <dholbach> Mithrand1r: could you please (if you find the time) upload a new version (or even sync) mozilla-thunderbird-locale-de?
[09:45] <dholbach> Mithrand1r: it still crashes with the german language
[09:45] <dholbach> wb mvo 
[09:45] <zul> hey mvo
[09:45] <mvo> hey dholbach, hey zul 
[09:47] <Kyaneos> hola
[09:48] <Kyaneos> hi sorry
[09:58] <lamont> elmo: current xorg build-deps in concordia/hoary-i386 chroot, please
[09:59] <zul> bbl
 Tybstar, new vte tarball is at http://www.gnome.org/~kmaraas/testing/vte-0.11.12.tar.gz
[11:15] <thom> seb128: get to it!
[11:16] <lu|away> haha
[11:16] <seb128> thom: I'm pondering uploading in hoary in fact :)
[11:16] <seb128> I think I'll
[11:16] <lu|away> you should, unless it looks spectacularly broken somehow
[11:16] <Amaranth> thom: Is that to fix the gnome-terminal redraw problem?
[11:16] <seb128> bah, even
[11:16] <seb128> vte is not used
[11:17] <seb128> all the devels have runned away for performance/issues with screen/... reasons
[11:17] <seb128> let's get it back :)
[11:17] <seb128> me too
[11:17] <lu|away> even if in this case dogfood mostly means 'letting the dog bite your balls repeatedly'
[11:17] <seb128> but lot of people complain about it
[11:17] <seb128> :)
[11:18] <thom> i still find it mostly usable, and screen only breaks once a month or so
[11:18] <Amaranth> seb128: Is that supposed to fix bug 122150?
[11:18] <seb128> I don't use screen and I don't care about it beeing slow :)
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: screen rocks
[11:19] <seb128> Amaranth: is #122150? closed ?
[11:19] <seb128> pitti: yeah, if you use a ssh connection on a box, I work on my box, no need of it
[11:19] <seb128> Amaranth: read the comments
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: I use it for long running processes, so I can restart my gnome session in the meantime
[11:20] <HrdwrBoB> screen is very widely used
[11:20] <seb128> I don't restart my session a lot
[11:20] <seb128> if I restart it that's to reboot
[11:21] <seb128> and screen doesn't handle reboot :)
[11:21] <HrdwrBoB> it does if it's remote :p
 pitti: yeah, if you use a ssh connection on a box, I work on my box, no need of it
[11:21] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[11:22] <thom> seb128: my irssi session is running in a 180x60 gnome-terminal btw ;-)
[11:22] <seb128> :)
[11:28] <sivang> seb128: do you know anything about g-c-m ?
[11:28] <dredg> enrico: ping?
[11:28] <sivang> seb128: I mean, inner code wise? ;-)
[11:29] <seb128> sivang: that's to manage printers ?
[11:29] <seb128> written in C/GTK ?
[11:29] <sivang> seb128: sort of, there also bits of bonobo there
[11:30] <seb128> that doesn't excluse C/GTK :)
[11:32] <sivang> seb128: I am trying to find where the code munges the glade interface, and where it handles some menubar tweaks. It's like no where. and right, that doesn't exclude C/GTK (it's in C) ;-)
[11:32] <seb128> bah
[11:32] <seb128> what menu entry ?
[11:32] <sivang> seb128: yepper ;-/
[11:32] <enrico> dredg: pong
[11:33] <dredg> enrico: hi. you maintain libbuffy, yes?
[11:33] <enrico> dredg: yes
[11:33] <dredg> enrico: ok, i've made some changes to the source package for the universe python transition to 2.4. would you mind looking over it?
[11:33] <enrico> sure: I'd love to!
[11:34] <dredg> enrico: ok, http://niall.frogstomp.com/wip/libbuffy/
[11:34] <dredg> i _think_ it's ok, but i'd prefer if you cast your eye over it
[11:35] <sivang> seb128: when I am done with the menu entry and see it integrates nicely, I can continue with the rest of the work. (we should not have any apparent blockages)
[11:35] <enrico> dredg: bbiab
[11:35] <dredg> enrico: no worries.
[11:39] <seb128> sivang: "yepper" is the name of the menu entry ?
[11:39] <seb128> sivang: waiting for a reply :p
[11:39] <sivang> seb128: no :)
[11:40] <sivang> seb128: oh sorry dude,
[11:40] <sivang> seb128: yeppr == yes.
[11:40] <sivang> seb128: (at least for me, I
[11:40] <sivang> seb128: probably should look out when I use such terms)
 what menu entry ?
[11:40] <sivang> seb128: I want to _add_ one
 seb128: I am trying to find where the code munges the glade interface, and where it handles some menubar tweaks. 
[11:41] <sivang> seb128: eh
[11:41] <seb128> describe a "menubar tweak"
[11:41] <seb128> and find it in the code
[11:41] <seb128> should be easy
[11:43] <sivang> seb128: ok, for the "Edit" one, if you open the glade file it shows there is no properties, when you run g-c-m, you see "Properties" under the "Edit" dropdown
[11:43] <mdz> hah, searching google for "array 4" gives you an ebay sponsored ad
[11:45] <thom> oh, holy moley
[11:45] <sivang> mdz: did you see mad penguin's logo tweak?
[11:45] <thom> i wish people would stop opening "make firefox work in gnome properly" bugs
[11:46] <sivang> thom: I thought it worked properly :)
[11:46] <thom> sivang: mime type handling and a bunch of other stuff
[11:47] <thom> there are some big differences still
[11:47] <thom> session management is the major suck
[11:47] <sivang> eh
[11:48] <sivang> mime type handling is somewhat weird , yeah
[11:48] <sivang> or, "misbehaving" ;-)
[11:48] <enrico> dredg: back
[11:50] <seb128> sivang: properties is in the glade file here
[11:51] <sivang> seb128: open the printer_window
[11:52] <sivang> seb128: (in the designer) then check out what's under "Edit". then open g-c-m from your install, and see "Properties" under "Edit"
[11:53] <seb128> yeah
[11:53] <seb128> both avec the properties
[11:53] <enrico> dredg: it seems perfectly ok to me!
[11:53] <dredg> enrico: excellent :)
[11:53] <enrico> dredg: have you tested if it works?
[11:53] <dredg> enrico: briefly
[11:53] <sivang> seb128: hmmm
[11:54] <enrico> dredg: (btw, we're about to release a new version of it: just minor fixes, and buffy builds using the library)
[11:54] <sivang> seb128: where is the glade file you've opened?
[11:54] <dredg> enrico: nice
[11:54] <sivang> seb128: is it under gnome-cups-manager-0.28/gnome-cups-manager ?
[11:54] <seb128> correct
[11:55] <sivang> seb128: hrm, I wonder what's wrong with my glade file. 
[11:55] <seb128> gnome-cups-manager-0.28/gnome-cups-manager/gnome-cups-manager.glade
[11:55] <seb128> it has 5 entries
[11:57] <dredg> enrico: so you're ok for someone to upload this to universe?
[11:57] <mdz> lamont: the upgrade went smoothly on amd64 and powerpc using the builds you/daniel provided
[11:57] <dholbach> good night
[11:57] <mdz> lamont: the only issue is that a set -x seems to have been left in a .config
[11:58] <enrico> dredg: sure!  Please go on!
[11:58] <enrico> dredg: I'm actually honored
[11:58] <sivang> seb128: when I open the "Edit" dropdown from the printer_window in glade-2, I don't have "Properties". only when running g-c-m installed on my system i get to see it there. (that open a property window per printer)
[11:58] <enrico> mdz: did you have a look at the docteam packages?
[11:58] <mdz> lamont: looks like xserver-xorg.config
[11:58] <dredg> enrico: great, thanks for your time
[11:58] <seb128> sivang: do you use glade-gnome-2 ?
[11:58] <mdz> enrico: no, I have not
[11:58] <seb128> sivang: the package has a gnome version
[11:59] <enrico> mdz: ok. Me and Sean did some more fixing today, and it seems there are yelp issues.  Sean'll look more into it tomorrow
[11:59] <mdz> enrico: are you waiting for something before you upload them?
[11:59] <enrico> mdz: and we do need help with writing good OMF files, as none of us has experience with them
[11:59] <mdz> enrico: thom knows about that
[12:00] <sivang> seb128: Merd! was there anything that would have implied to my non smart self about it? ;-)
[12:00] <enrico> mdz: I've never uploaded a package into Ubuntu before, so I was waiting for a bit more peer review before uploading
[12:00] <thom> i knew hacking doc-base would come back to bite me
[12:00] <sivang> thom: run!