=== Liz [~maori@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudAfrican Greetings06:32
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudmorning enrico07:07
enricofroud: morning!07:07
=== enrico watches sunrise
froudI'm back07:08
froudCape town was super cool07:08
enricoeverything is frosty and covered in snow.  Sunrise is beautiful this morning07:08
enricoCape Town... I still have to check that out07:08
froudhe he, we have a cool morning with a warn sun. Birds a chirping and life looks ready to go.07:08
enricoI've brought my gf to the airport, and now I'm preparing lessons for this morning.  I'll be operative in the afternoon07:11
enricogirlfriend has a meeting in amsterdam07:13
enricoI am giving some lessons about communication and Internet to high school students07:13
froudah Amsterdam. What a cool place07:14
enricofroud: mostly cold, these days :)07:14
froudyes, but still, what a lllllayed back place07:15
enricooh, yes!07:15
froudtel me07:15
froudhow does Ubuntu Update Update Manager and Synaptic differ07:16
froudI just ran UUM07:16
froudand it did updates07:16
froudThen I ran Synaptic07:16
froudand it had upgrades to do07:16
froudI thought UUM did that07:16
enricoGood question.  I think you should ask mvo07:17
enricomvo is the author of both :)07:17
froudon devel07:17
=== froud goes to devel to find mvo
enricoalthough you may want to wait a couple of hours: I'm sure he's still sleeping (he loives in GErmany)07:17
froudOK, I will msg him so when he is awake I can chat to him. Thanks07:18
froudi'm just closing a few pieces on the quick guide07:19
froudwhat was the final on "About Ubuntu"07:19
froudalso trickie was asking about screen capts07:20
froudin the Release Notes07:20
froudI assume all of these are installed in the same place07:20
froudif yes, then using screen capts is no problem07:20
froudif no then we have to do manual  duplication of images to the release notes07:21
=== froud does not really want to do that
enriconono, all images are installed in the same place07:21
enricothey are split in their owning package, but then they all end up in the same directory07:22
froudyes , but is release notes in the same place as everything else. I think About Ubuntu and Release Notes should be in the same place as the rest of the docs just in their own folders07:23
enricooh,yes.  Those are to be sorted out a bit.  I still haven't talked with mdz (my intention is to do it this a'noon)07:23
froudAh Ok, no problem let me know what will be done07:24
abellifroud: bon jour07:30
froudabelli: top of the morning to ya abelli 07:30
abellifroud: let me say... woza.07:31
froudwoza means come07:32
abellifroud: yeah i know07:32
froudsawubona means hello :-)07:32
froudwhere do      you want me to come to :-)07:32
abellifroud: shall we work on a basic afrikaan polygen grammar?07:33
froudenrico: I see jeff has an account. Thanks07:33
enricofroud: no problem.  And plovs has his account as well!07:34
enricoThanks to Elmo, actually07:34
froudyeah! Hey were is plovs?07:34
froudnot here today07:34
enricoNo, but he lives :)07:34
froudI think therefore i am07:35
enricofroud: you commit, therefore you are07:39
froudand when I commit, I commit. Sorry to fill your mailbox this morning07:39
enricofroud: no problem: I've got more space than gmail :)07:40
froudlucky fish07:40
=== froud 's Quick Quide Status Report: 3 items need help. 11 items need review. 172 items are marked complete.
froudIt is nearing the end07:46
enricoWorth a posting of the list of those 14 items to the list07:46
froudCan do07:46
froudenrico: strange I have subversion installed but cannot configure Administration > Shared Folders07:59
froudooops my mistake08:00
=== froud is off to do some work. c ya later
abellifroud: ciao08:01
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== _froud_ [~froud@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== enrico looks for people with experience with scrollkeeper
=== sm [~simon@lsanca1.ar5-] has left #ubuntu-doc []
enrico_froud_: around?05:57
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-12.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== _froud_ is now known as froud
froudenrico: what's up06:57
enricohello froud!06:57
enricoDid you read my mail in ubunut-doc about renaming the about ubuntu and release notes?06:58
froudhey, not yet06:58
froudgimme 5 min06:58
froudseems ok06:59
froudyou want me to do it06:59
enricono, I wanted to ask if that could cause problems, as the documents are interlinked07:00
froudgo ahead. I will fix the broken pieces. The main aim should be to make it easy for packaging07:01
enricook. We'll need to wart trickie07:01
froudwarn trickies about the filename change07:01
enricofroud: first we see if it works: I committed07:02
froudhe would have seen your message. The filename change will not make any diff to him07:02
enricofroud: please tell me if/when things work again07:03
froudok hang ten07:04
enricoin the meantime, I started studying the omf files.  Appearently, we have a problem registering the about ubuntu document, as it references the other documents which are still not installed.  No alarm for now, though: it may work anyway07:05
froudenrico: yep that was one of the problems I was trying to get clarity on about a month or two ago :-007:16
froudenrico: svn up all should work07:17
enricofroud: you're so ahead that we undestand what you say with a month of delay :)07:17
froudno am am in the same place as you but I like to look ahead to see problems07:18
froudhate last minute things   like this 07:18
froudI see release notes still has its own image in the output, do you want to use it?07:19
froudat present the html points to images/07:19
froudsuspecting that the release notes may move I added a command to copy the image relative to the document, but it was never used.07:20
enricodunno why, but I always give it for granted that other people will try things and report obvious problems; however, that doesn't usually happen07:21
enrico(until the last minute)07:21
enricolet's see.  I'm building the thing, then I'll check how it goes07:21
enricoimages shuold always be in images/ 07:22
froudproviding that release notes will remain in root07:22
enricoreports are broken (failed to load external entity ReleaseNotes.xml"07:24
froudyes that I did not fix07:25
froudleme fix it07:26
froudsvn up - any more problems?07:32
enricolet me see...07:33
enrico.deb has been built07:36
froudchuk-a-train it works07:36
enricouhm... scrollkeeper barfs.  It wants the libs/ stuff.  I guess I'll install it...07:38
froudspoke with mvo. he explained the diff for upgrade on update-manager and synaptic07:39
froudI will be creating GNOME user docs for update manager next07:39
enricoanother question: how come you generate the about-ubuntu HTML in a home subdirectory, rathern than in just build/about-ubuntu?07:42
enrico(need to go for dinner, be back in ~30 minutes)07:43
froudit was in a home dir on the distro so I just aped the distro07:43
froudwe can change it07:43
enricoI think we should change it07:43
froudto root of build go have dinner I will do the change07:43
enricobah, ugly validation barfs.  Could you try to build+install the package to see the scrollkeeper error messages?  It says it can't find things that seem to be there07:45
enrico(just committed my last fixes)07:45
froudok lemme just finish the make file and I will take a look07:46
enricoto build the packages, go in the trunk and do a "fakeroot debian/rules binary"07:46
enricoyou'll find the packages in the directory above the trunk07:46
enricobe back asap07:46
=== enrico is back
enriconews?  How's the prognosis?08:23
froudUmm just running the fakeroot08:27
froudhmmm now I have two transformations running..... slowwwww08:28
froudso what do you think we should work on after QG08:30
enricoUnless you have more clues, I can't see many targets acheivable before hoary releases08:32
froud:-) no mean after Hoary08:32
enricoWe could have an IRC meeting to talk about after-hoary08:33
enricoand we could also ask the developers for ideas08:33
=== venda [~sean@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
vendamake[1] : Leaving directory `/home/sean/ubuntu-doc/trunk'08:57
vendaDEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET unset, not running checks08:57
vendaDEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET unset, skipping default makefile.mk common-install target08:57
vendadh_installdirs -pubuntu-docs08:57
vendaif [ ! -f build/release-notes/html/ReleaseNotes.html ] ; then \08:57
venda        mkdir build/rn-html; \08:57
venda        mv build/release-notes/* build/rn-html/; \08:57
venda        mv build/rn-html build/release-notes/html; \08:57
venda        mv build/about-ubuntu/home build/about-ubuntu/html; \08:57
vendamv: cannot stat `build/about-ubuntu/home': No such file or directory08:57
vendamake: *** [install/ubuntu-docs]  Error 108:57
=== herve [~herve@ip-3.net-81-220-179.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudherve: hi08:58
herveI try to add a link to a GNU Arch repository on the wiki08:58
hervebut STX syntax messes it up08:58
hervedo you know some trick to preserve a URL?08:58
hervedouble square brackets won't work08:58
froudHmm. enrico ping08:58
enricooh, sure: you changed that, the deb scripts are broken.  Fixing the mnow08:59
froudenrico: can you help herve 08:59
enricouhm... arch...  Kinnison?09:00
enricoAh, sorry, to the WIKI09:01
enricoYou use stx... it was agreed to stick to Moin09:01
enricoherve: if you're not very deep into the markup, you can try Moin.  Just the URL, or if it doesn't work, put the URL inside single square brackets09:02
froudI know the []  works for moin moin09:02
herveok I think I have to switch09:03
hervehow do you make notes then?09:03
=== froud looks for an example
herveha thank you09:04
enriconotes, like what?09:04
hervenotes at the bottom of a page09:04
herveI don't know a better name09:04
=== Kinnison sees his name
Kinnisonenrico: something I can help with?09:04
enricoherve: ok, sure.  I don't think Moin makes notes09:05
enricoKinnison: sorry: I thought there was a problem about arch, but it was about the wiki instead09:05
herveno arch is fine ;)09:05
hervebut stx is outdated09:05
herveit's probably the occasion to learn reST09:05
Kinnisonenrico: Aaah09:05
enricoare notes so essential?  They are not very common in web pages09:05
hervethank you guys09:05
froudherve: for notes just do09:05
hervethey are to me :)09:05
froud NOTE:: Your text here09:06
enricoherve: wait: froud has a solution09:06
frouda space before the word not ewill do09:06
hervethat would put it at the end of the page?09:06
froudsee example of tip @ https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SubversionRepository09:07
herveenrico, I would use good old hrefs but I'd like these URL to appear on their own09:07
froudherve: no it will be inline to the page09:07
froudsee the example above09:07
herveok, I see the kind of note09:08
=== froud looks for a patch from enrico
herveI think I'll take the time to learn reST09:09
hervethank you all09:09
=== herve [~herve@ip-3.net-81-220-179.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"]
=== venda groans, "GNOME is too slow"
enricofroud: I'm working on the patch09:11
froudvenda is rebbbbbboting09:12
enricofroud: committed!09:17
enricofroud: got it?09:18
froudgot it09:19
froudrunning fakeroot09:20
enricoyou're actually running debian/rules under a fakeroot environment09:20
enricofakeroot is cute: you run it as a user, and you are root09:20
froudwhere did you say it should put the packages09:21
enricoone directory above the trunk09:21
enricofakeroot debian/rules binary; cd ..  and you find the packagse09:21
frouduhhh huh!09:21
enricoare they there?09:21
enricoyou can navigate inside them with mc, if you want09:21
froudyep I have themmm09:22
enricook. Try installing just ubuntu-docs: it's the one showing prolbems09:22
froudenrico: what's the command for installing from a local package09:28
froudsudo apt something09:28
froudmy system keeps looking online09:28
enricodpkg -i <packagename>.deb09:29
froudah ha09:29
froudtoatl debs newbiew here09:29
=== froud scratches for rpm
enricofroud: apt-get install rpm :)09:29
enricoI just suggest you don't use it on a Debian system ;)09:30
froudI gotta learn this stuff anyways09:30
=== venda [~sean@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
vendasean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $ sudo dpkg -i ubuntu-docs_0.1-1_all.deb09:31
vendaSelecting previously deselected package ubuntu-docs.09:31
venda(Reading database ... 74492 files and directories currently installed.)09:31
vendaUnpacking ubuntu-docs (from ubuntu-docs_0.1-1_all.deb) ...09:31
vendaSetting up ubuntu-docs (0.1-1) ...09:31
vendaRegistering documentation.done.09:31
enricodone?  No errors?09:32
froudas you see above09:32
enricouhm... /me thinks about something...09:32
enricoI have an idea...09:32
froudwonder what 'appens if I install the rest09:33
enricoIn part it's debian that still hasn't fixed the "xsltproc loads from network" problem09:33
enricothen it says it can't load external entity REVISION and VERSION09:33
enricoI need to add those as well09:34
vendasean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $ sudo dpkg -i ubuntu-quickguide_0.1-1_all.deb09:35
vendaSelecting previously deselected package ubuntu-quickguide.09:35
venda(Reading database ... 75099 files and directories currently installed.)09:35
vendaUnpacking ubuntu-quickguide (from ubuntu-quickguide_0.1-1_all.deb) ...09:35
vendaSetting up ubuntu-quickguide (0.1-1) ...09:35
vendasean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $09:35
vendano prroblems there09:35
enricouhm.. I think it's ignoring some problems09:35
vendahmm is there a verbose mode like rpm :-)09:35
vendaor -vvv09:36
enricoshouldn't be: that's scrollkeeper, not dpkg09:36
enricolet me fix that09:36
enricoIf I get it right both on Debian Sid and on Hoary, I'm happy09:37
vendawell on hoary current revision in dev brach it seems ok09:37
enricoif you run yelp, can you see the two documents?09:38
enricoThey should show up somehow in yelp's table of contents09:38
enricosivang: hello!09:38
enricosivang: are you there?09:38
vendarun it from menus09:38
enricoright... now there is to be figured out how to do good OMF files...09:40
enrico...and I'm considering poking someone from #ubuntu-devel for it09:40
enricohave you installed all of the documents, or only ubuntu-docs?09:40
enricotry viewing the about-ubuntu.xml file with yelp: I get quite some "MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT"09:41
froudThe folder structure is not as we discussed09:42
enricoNo: the User's guide is just no installed :)09:42
froudI thought all would be in share/docs/ubuntu-docs/09:43
enricoI should package chap-ubuntu in the ubuntu-docs package instead of the user's guide09:43
froudyou lost me09:43
enricono, it's share/ubuntu-docs (for the xml files) and /usr/share/doc/<packagename> for the HTML versions09:43
enricothe about-ubuntu.xml document xincludes parts from the user's guide09:43
enricobut the user's guide is not installed on the system09:43
froudyes that is true09:44
enricoCan we move those contents to the about-ubuntu.xml and xinclude from the User's Guide instead?09:44
enricoThat would make things so much easier (the User's Guide would depend on the about-ubuntu package anyway)09:45
froudyes let's do it09:46
froudyelp it bitching about all sorts of stuff for quick guide09:46
froudok hang in there leme move the stuff09:47
enricofroud: ok09:50
froudenrico: ok that should do it09:52
=== enrico svnups
froudwhat's the dpkg update command09:54
enricojust dpkg -i09:54
enricodpkg is able to understand that a version is installed already, so it's an update :)09:54
froudhmm ok easy to remember. Nothing lik elearning on the fly09:54
froudenrico: I moved the content to the wrong place09:58
enricofroud: :)  But interestingly enough, scrollkeeper stopped complaining10:00
enrico(however, yelp still can't find the xincluded parts)10:00
froudi move it to about-ubuntu.xml10:00
froudI am moving to qg10:01
enricomove it to about-ubuntu, not to qg10:02
enricoelse, I have the same problem10:02
froudI did about ubuntu10:02
froudnow we need the stuff in qg10:02
enricooh, ok.  gq needs to point to about-ubuntu now10:03
enricodid you commit the baout-ubuntu changes?10:03
froudfor now I am just making a copy10:03
froudnot yet10:03
froudok now10:04
enricoI test them while you hack on the rest10:05
vendawhat rest there are more problems10:06
enricoOh, no, I mean, on the quickguide10:07
frouddo svn up10:07
froudquick guide is fiiiixed10:07
enricocan you yelp /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C/about-ubuntu-xml ?10:08
vendajust about to try10:09
vendadone new build an dinstall10:09
enricoyelp is having fun of me10:10
enricoit's telling me "MISSING XINCLUDE" when there are no XINCLUDES there.  It must be caching things10:10
vendanope cant10:10
enricowhy can't?  What problem?10:11
froudcant open about-ubuntu10:11
froudsays its not well formed10:11
froudbuut that is not true10:11
froudcause I did valid check10:11
vendanow I am confused it works in qg and not for releasenotes or about ubuntu10:14
enricooh, blah.  .svn directories in the package.  I should remember to export before building (altohugh this doesn't impact xml)10:14
enricorelease notes works for me10:14
froudhmm you sure10:14
enricobut I'm not hoary10:14
vendalemme try on suse10:15
froudit works on suse10:15
froudbut the about ubuntu has problems10:16
froudseems yelp does not know what to do with the article10:17
froudand cant find the image10:17
froudthe ubuntu image10:17
=== enrico ponders a rain of bug reports
froudbut release notes looks good10:17
froudbut I cant load it on hoary from usr.share ..10:17
vendabut the release notes load from svn src on hoary10:19
vendaI think it is yelp that does not know what to do with article documents10:20
enricosomething wrong: in the build dir, without even building the debian package, I can't yelp about-ubuntu.xsml10:20
enricosomething wrong: in the build dir, without even building the debian package, I can't yelp about-ubuntu.xml10:20
vendaat least not ones that have para, para, paraaaaaa, sect1, sect210:20
enriconor the release notes10:20
vendaok, I must go sleep. Look atthis with fresh eyes in the morning10:21
vendalemme start from the top in the morning and work through it10:21
enricoyes, that's a good idea10:22
enricoUnfortuantely, tomorrow I'll be working10:22
vendaall docs checkout as valid and well-formed in the repos10:22
enricoand I'll have a meeting in the evening10:22
vendabut it seems Yelp is all cocked10:22
enricoI'll be back operative on wed evening10:22
vendathat's fine10:22
enricoyes: it seesm to me a bit off10:22
enricoI think we should involve the devels on this one10:22
vendab 4 we go10:23
vendais there a problem to run about and release under firefox10:23
vendawhy do we need yelp for them10:23
vendaI dont recall us tartgeting those docs for yelp10:23
enricoyes, the idea was to try to integrate them in the help system10:24
vendaThen I will hav eto change the xml structure so that yelp likes it10:24
vendathe gnome team did not impliment all docbook xsl10:24
vendaso this is why we have the problems10:24
vendaI will check the yelp source in the morning10:25
enricobut the about ubuntu problems seem to be a different thing10:25
enricoI really suggest you involve the devels right from the start10:25
vendaI cant remember seeing a template ffor the article tag10:25
enricoI'll try to ping them now10:25
vendano not now10:25
vendajust need clear head10:26
vendato figure out how     help tackles artcles10:26
vendayelp is such a crippled app10:26
vendashaunm does not have enough time to hack it10:26
vendaso it's patching in places10:26
vendaIm off. c ya later10:27
enricovenda: see you!10:29
sivangenrico: now i am11:03
sivangenrico: Whassup? :)11:03
enricosome .debs to try11:07
sivangenrico: shoot :)11:07
sivangenrico: where are them?11:07
enricoif you want to svn up the documentation, build the debs and try to install them11:07
enricosvn up the documentation11:07
enricofakeroot debian/rules binary11:08
enricothen give them a try11:08
enricocheck if you can see the HTML, and if you can access things with yelp11:08
sivangenrico: svn: PROPFIND of '/repos': could not connect to server (http://docteam.ubuntu.com:8080)11:11
sivanghow can I create a new archive?11:11
sivangI mean, I want to reset my folder11:11
enricosivan... it's using https now11:11
sivangwell, and I still have a username and a password?11:12
enriconow it's https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk11:12
sivangso svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ?11:12
enricoyou'll have to do svn switch --relocate <old url you can see with svn info> <new url>11:12
sivangoops, I alrady deleted the old folder :-/11:13
enricothen checkout a new one11:13
enriconow, I think I told you at least 5 times how to get a password inthe new repo11:13
enricoI sent a mail to the list twice about it, and I pointed you at the link using IRC11:14
enricoplease try to do a short list search before asking me how to have the password in the new repository...11:17
sivangok, sure, sorry11:23
sivangI'm way swaped with some stuff I am fighting to finish before preview freeze, so I may check this at a later stage when I've finished it, and do all the neccessary reading, I'm sorry again.11:24
sivangenrico: I thought the pkgs are already in the repository11:25

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