[06:32] <froud> African Greetings
[07:07] <froud> morning enrico
[07:07] <enrico> froud: morning!
[07:08] <froud> I'm back
[07:08] <froud> Cape town was super cool
[07:08] <enrico> everything is frosty and covered in snow.  Sunrise is beautiful this morning
[07:08] <enrico> Cape Town... I still have to check that out
[07:08] <froud> he he, we have a cool morning with a warn sun. Birds a chirping and life looks ready to go.
[07:09] <froud> http://www.cape-town.org/
[07:11] <enrico> I've brought my gf to the airport, and now I'm preparing lessons for this morning.  I'll be operative in the afternoon
[07:12] <froud> Huh?
[07:12] <froud> gf
[07:12] <froud> airport
[07:12] <froud> lessons
[07:13] <enrico> girlfriend has a meeting in amsterdam
[07:13] <enrico> I am giving some lessons about communication and Internet to high school students
[07:14] <froud> ah Amsterdam. What a cool place
[07:14] <enrico> froud: mostly cold, these days :)
[07:15] <froud> yes, but still, what a lllllayed back place
[07:15] <enrico> oh, yes!
[07:15] <froud> tel me
[07:16] <froud> how does Ubuntu Update Update Manager and Synaptic differ
[07:16] <froud> I just ran UUM
[07:16] <froud> and it did updates
[07:16] <froud> Then I ran Synaptic
[07:16] <froud> and it had upgrades to do
[07:16] <froud> ?
[07:16] <froud> I thought UUM did that
[07:17] <enrico> Good question.  I think you should ask mvo
[07:17] <enrico> mvo is the author of both :)
[07:17] <froud> on devel
[07:17] <enrico> yes
[07:17] <enrico> although you may want to wait a couple of hours: I'm sure he's still sleeping (he loives in GErmany)
[07:18] <froud> OK, I will msg him so when he is awake I can chat to him. Thanks
[07:18] <enrico> np
[07:19] <froud> i'm just closing a few pieces on the quick guide
[07:19] <froud> what was the final on "About Ubuntu"
[07:20] <froud> also trickie was asking about screen capts
[07:20] <froud> in the Release Notes
[07:20] <froud> I assume all of these are installed in the same place
[07:20] <froud> if yes, then using screen capts is no problem
[07:21] <froud> if no then we have to do manual  duplication of images to the release notes
[07:21] <enrico> nono, all images are installed in the same place
[07:22] <enrico> they are split in their owning package, but then they all end up in the same directory
[07:23] <froud> yes , but is release notes in the same place as everything else. I think About Ubuntu and Release Notes should be in the same place as the rest of the docs just in their own folders
[07:23] <enrico> oh,yes.  Those are to be sorted out a bit.  I still haven't talked with mdz (my intention is to do it this a'noon)
[07:24] <froud> Ah Ok, no problem let me know what will be done
[07:30] <abelli> froud: bon jour
[07:30] <froud> abelli: top of the morning to ya abelli 
[07:31] <abelli> froud: let me say... woza.
[07:32] <froud> woza means come
[07:32] <abelli> froud: yeah i know
[07:32] <froud> sawubona means hello :-)
[07:32] <froud> where do      you want me to come to :-)
[07:33] <abelli> froud: shall we work on a basic afrikaan polygen grammar?
[07:33] <froud> enrico: I see jeff has an account. Thanks
[07:34] <enrico> froud: no problem.  And plovs has his account as well!
[07:34] <enrico> Thanks to Elmo, actually
[07:34] <froud> yeah! Hey were is plovs?
[07:34] <froud> not here today
[07:34] <enrico> No, but he lives :)
[07:35] <froud> I think therefore i am
[07:39] <enrico> froud: you commit, therefore you are
[07:39] <froud> and when I commit, I commit. Sorry to fill your mailbox this morning
[07:40] <enrico> froud: no problem: I've got more space than gmail :)
[07:40] <froud> lucky fish
[07:46] <enrico> WoW!
[07:46] <froud> It is nearing the end
[07:46] <enrico> Worth a posting of the list of those 14 items to the list
[07:46] <froud> Can do
[07:59] <froud> enrico: strange I have subversion installed but cannot configure Administration > Shared Folders
[08:00] <froud> ooops my mistake
[08:01] <abelli> froud: ciao
[05:57] <enrico> _froud_: around?
[06:57] <froud> enrico: what's up
[06:57] <enrico> hello froud!
[06:58] <enrico> Did you read my mail in ubunut-doc about renaming the about ubuntu and release notes?
[06:58] <froud> hey, not yet
[06:58] <froud> gimme 5 min
[06:59] <froud> seems ok
[06:59] <froud> you want me to do it
[07:00] <enrico> no, I wanted to ask if that could cause problems, as the documents are interlinked
[07:01] <froud> go ahead. I will fix the broken pieces. The main aim should be to make it easy for packaging
[07:01] <enrico> ok. We'll need to wart trickie
[07:01] <froud> warn trickies about the filename change
[07:02] <enrico> froud: first we see if it works: I committed
[07:02] <froud> he would have seen your message. The filename change will not make any diff to him
[07:03] <enrico> froud: please tell me if/when things work again
[07:04] <froud> ok hang ten
[07:05] <enrico> in the meantime, I started studying the omf files.  Appearently, we have a problem registering the about ubuntu document, as it references the other documents which are still not installed.  No alarm for now, though: it may work anyway
[07:16] <froud> enrico: yep that was one of the problems I was trying to get clarity on about a month or two ago :-0
[07:17] <froud> enrico: svn up all should work
[07:17] <enrico> froud: you're so ahead that we undestand what you say with a month of delay :)
[07:18] <froud> no am am in the same place as you but I like to look ahead to see problems
[07:18] <froud> hate last minute things   like this 
[07:19] <froud> I see release notes still has its own image in the output, do you want to use it?
[07:19] <froud> at present the html points to images/
[07:20] <froud> suspecting that the release notes may move I added a command to copy the image relative to the document, but it was never used.
[07:21] <enrico> dunno why, but I always give it for granted that other people will try things and report obvious problems; however, that doesn't usually happen
[07:21] <enrico> (until the last minute)
[07:21] <enrico> let's see.  I'm building the thing, then I'll check how it goes
[07:22] <enrico> images shuold always be in images/ 
[07:22] <froud> providing that release notes will remain in root
[07:24] <enrico> reports are broken (failed to load external entity ReleaseNotes.xml"
[07:25] <froud> yes that I did not fix
[07:26] <froud> leme fix it
[07:32] <froud> svn up - any more problems?
[07:33] <enrico> let me see...
[07:36] <enrico> .deb has been built
[07:36] <froud> chuk-a-train it works
[07:38] <enrico> uhm... scrollkeeper barfs.  It wants the libs/ stuff.  I guess I'll install it...
[07:39] <froud> spoke with mvo. he explained the diff for upgrade on update-manager and synaptic
[07:39] <froud> I will be creating GNOME user docs for update manager next
[07:42] <enrico> another question: how come you generate the about-ubuntu HTML in a home subdirectory, rathern than in just build/about-ubuntu?
[07:43] <enrico> (need to go for dinner, be back in ~30 minutes)
[07:43] <froud> it was in a home dir on the distro so I just aped the distro
[07:43] <froud> we can change it
[07:43] <enrico> I think we should change it
[07:43] <froud> to root of build go have dinner I will do the change
[07:45] <enrico> bah, ugly validation barfs.  Could you try to build+install the package to see the scrollkeeper error messages?  It says it can't find things that seem to be there
[07:45] <enrico> (just committed my last fixes)
[07:46] <froud> ok lemme just finish the make file and I will take a look
[07:46] <enrico> to build the packages, go in the trunk and do a "fakeroot debian/rules binary"
[07:46] <enrico> you'll find the packages in the directory above the trunk
[07:46] <enrico> be back asap
[08:23] <enrico> news?  How's the prognosis?
[08:27] <froud> Umm just running the fakeroot
[08:28] <froud> hmmm now I have two transformations running..... slowwwww
[08:30] <froud> so what do you think we should work on after QG
[08:32] <enrico> Unless you have more clues, I can't see many targets acheivable before hoary releases
[08:32] <froud> :-) no mean after Hoary
[08:33] <enrico> We could have an IRC meeting to talk about after-hoary
[08:33] <enrico> and we could also ask the developers for ideas
[08:33] <froud> cool
[08:57] <venda> make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/sean/ubuntu-doc/trunk'
[08:57] <venda> DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET unset, not running checks
[08:57] <venda> DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET unset, skipping default makefile.mk common-install target
[08:57] <venda> dh_installdirs -pubuntu-docs
[08:57] <venda> if [ ! -f build/release-notes/html/ReleaseNotes.html ] ; then \
[08:57] <venda>         mkdir build/rn-html; \
[08:57] <venda>         mv build/release-notes/* build/rn-html/; \
[08:57] <venda>         mv build/rn-html build/release-notes/html; \
[08:57] <venda>         mv build/about-ubuntu/home build/about-ubuntu/html; \
[08:57] <venda> fi
[08:57] <venda> mv: cannot stat `build/about-ubuntu/home': No such file or directory
[08:57] <venda> make: *** [install/ubuntu-docs]  Error 1
[08:57] <herve> hi
[08:58] <froud> herve: hi
[08:58] <herve> I try to add a link to a GNU Arch repository on the wiki
[08:58] <herve> but STX syntax messes it up
[08:58] <herve> do you know some trick to preserve a URL?
[08:58] <herve> double square brackets won't work
[08:58] <froud> Hmm. enrico ping
[08:59] <enrico> oh, sure: you changed that, the deb scripts are broken.  Fixing the mnow
[08:59] <froud> enrico: can you help herve 
[09:00] <enrico> uhm... arch...  Kinnison?
[09:01] <enrico> Ah, sorry, to the WIKI
[09:01] <enrico> You use stx... it was agreed to stick to Moin
[09:02] <enrico> herve: if you're not very deep into the markup, you can try Moin.  Just the URL, or if it doesn't work, put the URL inside single square brackets
[09:02] <froud> I know the []  works for moin moin
[09:03] <herve> ok I think I have to switch
[09:03] <herve> how do you make notes then?
[09:04] <herve> ha thank you
[09:04] <enrico> notes, like what?
[09:04] <herve> notes at the bottom of a page
[09:04] <herve> I don't know a better name
[09:04] <Kinnison> enrico: something I can help with?
[09:05] <enrico> herve: ok, sure.  I don't think Moin makes notes
[09:05] <enrico> Kinnison: sorry: I thought there was a problem about arch, but it was about the wiki instead
[09:05] <herve> no arch is fine ;)
[09:05] <herve> but stx is outdated
[09:05] <herve> it's probably the occasion to learn reST
[09:05] <Kinnison> enrico: Aaah
[09:05] <enrico> are notes so essential?  They are not very common in web pages
[09:05] <herve> thank you guys
[09:05] <froud> herve: for notes just do
[09:05] <herve> they are to me :)
[09:06] <froud>  NOTE:: Your text here
[09:06] <enrico> herve: wait: froud has a solution
[09:06] <froud> a space before the word not ewill do
[09:06] <herve> that would put it at the end of the page?
[09:07] <froud> see example of tip @ https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SubversionRepository
[09:07] <herve> enrico, I would use good old hrefs but I'd like these URL to appear on their own
[09:07] <froud> herve: no it will be inline to the page
[09:07] <froud> see the example above
[09:08] <herve> ok, I see the kind of note
[09:09] <herve> I think I'll take the time to learn reST
[09:09] <herve> thank you all
[09:09] <herve> bye
[09:11] <enrico> froud: I'm working on the patch
[09:11] <venda> good
[09:12] <froud> venda is rebbbbbboting
[09:17] <enrico> froud: committed!
[09:18] <enrico> froud: got it?
[09:19] <froud> got it
[09:20] <froud> running fakeroot
[09:20] <enrico> you're actually running debian/rules under a fakeroot environment
[09:20] <enrico> fakeroot is cute: you run it as a user, and you are root
[09:20] <froud> yep
[09:21] <froud> where did you say it should put the packages
[09:21] <enrico> one directory above the trunk
[09:21] <enrico> fakeroot debian/rules binary; cd ..  and you find the packagse
[09:21] <froud> uhhh huh!
[09:21] <enrico> are they there?
[09:21] <enrico> you can navigate inside them with mc, if you want
[09:22] <froud> yep I have themmm
[09:22] <enrico> ok. Try installing just ubuntu-docs: it's the one showing prolbems
[09:28] <froud> enrico: what's the command for installing from a local package
[09:28] <froud> sudo apt something
[09:28] <froud> my system keeps looking online
[09:29] <enrico> dpkg -i <packagename>.deb
[09:29] <froud> ah ha
[09:29] <froud> toatl debs newbiew here
[09:29] <enrico> froud: apt-get install rpm :)
[09:30] <enrico> I just suggest you don't use it on a Debian system ;)
[09:30] <froud> sure
[09:30] <froud> I gotta learn this stuff anyways
[09:31] <venda> sean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $ sudo dpkg -i ubuntu-docs_0.1-1_all.deb
[09:31] <venda> Selecting previously deselected package ubuntu-docs.
[09:31] <venda> (Reading database ... 74492 files and directories currently installed.)
[09:31] <venda> Unpacking ubuntu-docs (from ubuntu-docs_0.1-1_all.deb) ...
[09:31] <venda> Setting up ubuntu-docs (0.1-1) ...
[09:31] <venda> Registering documentation.done.
[09:32] <enrico> done?  No errors?
[09:32] <froud> as you see above
[09:32] <enrico> uhm... /me thinks about something...
[09:32] <enrico> I have an idea...
[09:33] <froud> wonder what 'appens if I install the rest
[09:33] <enrico> In part it's debian that still hasn't fixed the "xsltproc loads from network" problem
[09:33] <enrico> then it says it can't load external entity REVISION and VERSION
[09:34] <enrico> I need to add those as well
[09:35] <venda> sean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $ sudo dpkg -i ubuntu-quickguide_0.1-1_all.deb
[09:35] <venda> Selecting previously deselected package ubuntu-quickguide.
[09:35] <venda> (Reading database ... 75099 files and directories currently installed.)
[09:35] <venda> Unpacking ubuntu-quickguide (from ubuntu-quickguide_0.1-1_all.deb) ...
[09:35] <venda> Setting up ubuntu-quickguide (0.1-1) ...
[09:35] <venda> sean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $
[09:35] <venda> no prroblems there
[09:35] <enrico> uhm.. I think it's ignoring some problems
[09:35] <venda> hmm is there a verbose mode like rpm :-)
[09:35] <venda> -v
[09:36] <venda> or -vvv
[09:36] <enrico> shouldn't be: that's scrollkeeper, not dpkg
[09:36] <enrico> let me fix that
[09:37] <enrico> testing...
[09:37] <enrico> If I get it right both on Debian Sid and on Hoary, I'm happy
[09:37] <venda> well on hoary current revision in dev brach it seems ok
[09:38] <enrico> if you run yelp, can you see the two documents?
[09:38] <enrico> They should show up somehow in yelp's table of contents
[09:38] <enrico> sivang: hello!
[09:38] <enrico> sivang: are you there?
[09:38] <venda> run it from menus
[09:39] <froud> nada
[09:39] <froud> :-(
[09:40] <enrico> right... now there is to be figured out how to do good OMF files...
[09:40] <enrico> ...and I'm considering poking someone from #ubuntu-devel for it
[09:40] <enrico> have you installed all of the documents, or only ubuntu-docs?
[09:41] <enrico> try viewing the about-ubuntu.xml file with yelp: I get quite some "MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT"
[09:42] <froud> The folder structure is not as we discussed
[09:42] <enrico> No: the User's guide is just no installed :)
[09:43] <froud> I thought all would be in share/docs/ubuntu-docs/
[09:43] <enrico> I should package chap-ubuntu in the ubuntu-docs package instead of the user's guide
[09:43] <froud> you lost me
[09:43] <enrico> no, it's share/ubuntu-docs (for the xml files) and /usr/share/doc/<packagename> for the HTML versions
[09:43] <enrico> the about-ubuntu.xml document xincludes parts from the user's guide
[09:43] <enrico> but the user's guide is not installed on the system
[09:44] <froud> yes that is true
[09:44] <enrico> Can we move those contents to the about-ubuntu.xml and xinclude from the User's Guide instead?
[09:45] <enrico> That would make things so much easier (the User's Guide would depend on the about-ubuntu package anyway)
[09:46] <froud> yes let's do it
[09:46] <froud> yelp it bitching about all sorts of stuff for quick guide
[09:47] <froud> ok hang in there leme move the stuff
[09:50] <enrico> froud: ok
[09:52] <froud> enrico: ok that should do it
[09:54] <froud> what's the dpkg update command
[09:54] <enrico> just dpkg -i
[09:54] <enrico> dpkg is able to understand that a version is installed already, so it's an update :)
[09:54] <froud> hmm ok easy to remember. Nothing lik elearning on the fly
[09:58] <froud> enrico: I moved the content to the wrong place
[10:00] <enrico> froud: :)  But interestingly enough, scrollkeeper stopped complaining
[10:00] <froud> yes
[10:00] <enrico> (however, yelp still can't find the xincluded parts)
[10:00] <froud> i move it to about-ubuntu.xml
[10:01] <froud> I am moving to qg
[10:02] <enrico> no,please
[10:02] <enrico> move it to about-ubuntu, not to qg
[10:02] <enrico> else, I have the same problem
[10:02] <froud> I did about ubuntu
[10:02] <froud> now we need the stuff in qg
[10:03] <enrico> oh, ok.  gq needs to point to about-ubuntu now
[10:03] <enrico> did you commit the baout-ubuntu changes?
[10:03] <froud> for now I am just making a copy
[10:03] <froud> not yet
[10:04] <froud> ok now
[10:05] <enrico> I test them while you hack on the rest
[10:06] <venda> what rest there are more problems
[10:07] <enrico> Oh, no, I mean, on the quickguide
[10:07] <froud> do svn up
[10:07] <froud> quick guide is fiiiixed
[10:08] <enrico> can you yelp /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C/about-ubuntu-xml ?
[10:09] <venda> just about to try
[10:09] <venda> done new build an dinstall
[10:10] <enrico> yelp is having fun of me
[10:10] <enrico> it's telling me "MISSING XINCLUDE" when there are no XINCLUDES there.  It must be caching things
[10:10] <venda> nope cant
[10:11] <enrico> why can't?  What problem?
[10:11] <froud> cant open about-ubuntu
[10:11] <froud> says its not well formed
[10:11] <froud> buut that is not true
[10:11] <froud> cause I did valid check
[10:14] <venda> now I am confused it works in qg and not for releasenotes or about ubuntu
[10:14] <enrico> oh, blah.  .svn directories in the package.  I should remember to export before building (altohugh this doesn't impact xml)
[10:14] <enrico> release notes works for me
[10:14] <froud> hmm you sure
[10:14] <enrico> but I'm not hoary
[10:15] <venda> lemme try on suse
[10:15] <froud> it works on suse
[10:16] <froud> but the about ubuntu has problems
[10:17] <froud> seems yelp does not know what to do with the article
[10:17] <froud> and cant find the image
[10:17] <froud> the ubuntu image
[10:17] <froud> but release notes looks good
[10:17] <froud> but I cant load it on hoary from usr.share ..
[10:19] <venda> but the release notes load from svn src on hoary
[10:20] <venda> I think it is yelp that does not know what to do with article documents
[10:20] <enrico> something wrong: in the build dir, without even building the debian package, I can't yelp about-ubuntu.xsml
[10:20] <enrico> something wrong: in the build dir, without even building the debian package, I can't yelp about-ubuntu.xml
[10:20] <venda> at least not ones that have para, para, paraaaaaa, sect1, sect2
[10:20] <enrico> nor the release notes
[10:21] <venda> ok, I must go sleep. Look atthis with fresh eyes in the morning
[10:21] <venda> lemme start from the top in the morning and work through it
[10:22] <enrico> yes, that's a good idea
[10:22] <enrico> Unfortuantely, tomorrow I'll be working
[10:22] <venda> all docs checkout as valid and well-formed in the repos
[10:22] <enrico> and I'll have a meeting in the evening
[10:22] <venda> but it seems Yelp is all cocked
[10:22] <enrico> I'll be back operative on wed evening
[10:22] <venda> that's fine
[10:22] <enrico> yes: it seesm to me a bit off
[10:22] <enrico> I think we should involve the devels on this one
[10:23] <venda> b 4 we go
[10:23] <venda> is there a problem to run about and release under firefox
[10:23] <venda> why do we need yelp for them
[10:23] <venda> I dont recall us tartgeting those docs for yelp
[10:24] <enrico> yes, the idea was to try to integrate them in the help system
[10:24] <venda> Then I will hav eto change the xml structure so that yelp likes it
[10:24] <venda> the gnome team did not impliment all docbook xsl
[10:24] <venda> so this is why we have the problems
[10:25] <venda> I will check the yelp source in the morning
[10:25] <enrico> but the about ubuntu problems seem to be a different thing
[10:25] <enrico> I really suggest you involve the devels right from the start
[10:25] <venda> I cant remember seeing a template ffor the article tag
[10:25] <enrico> I'll try to ping them now
[10:25] <venda> no not now
[10:26] <venda> just need clear head
[10:26] <enrico> k
[10:26] <venda> to figure out how     help tackles artcles
[10:26] <venda> yelp is such a crippled app
[10:26] <venda> shaunm does not have enough time to hack it
[10:26] <venda> so it's patching in places
[10:27] <venda> Im off. c ya later
[10:29] <enrico> venda: see you!
[10:29] <froud> chow
[11:03] <sivang> enrico: now i am
[11:03] <sivang> enrico: Whassup? :)
[11:07] <enrico> some .debs to try
[11:07] <sivang> enrico: shoot :)
[11:07] <sivang> enrico: where are them?
[11:07] <enrico> if you want to svn up the documentation, build the debs and try to install them
[11:07] <enrico> svn up the documentation
[11:08] <enrico> fakeroot debian/rules binary
[11:08] <enrico> then give them a try
[11:08] <enrico> check if you can see the HTML, and if you can access things with yelp
[11:11] <sivang> enrico: svn: PROPFIND of '/repos': could not connect to server (http://docteam.ubuntu.com:8080)
[11:11] <sivang> how can I create a new archive?
[11:11] <sivang> sorry,
[11:11] <sivang> I mean, I want to reset my folder
[11:11] <enrico> sivan... it's using https now
[11:11] <sivang> oh
[11:12] <sivang> well, and I still have a username and a password?
[11:12] <enrico> now it's https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[11:12] <sivang> so svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ?
[11:12] <enrico> you'll have to do svn switch --relocate <old url you can see with svn info> <new url>
[11:13] <sivang> oops, I alrady deleted the old folder :-/
[11:13] <enrico> then checkout a new one
[11:13] <enrico> now, I think I told you at least 5 times how to get a password inthe new repo
[11:14] <enrico> I sent a mail to the list twice about it, and I pointed you at the link using IRC
[11:17] <enrico> please try to do a short list search before asking me how to have the password in the new repository...
[11:23] <sivang> ok, sure, sorry
[11:24] <sivang> I'm way swaped with some stuff I am fighting to finish before preview freeze, so I may check this at a later stage when I've finished it, and do all the neccessary reading, I'm sorry again.
[11:25] <sivang> enrico: I thought the pkgs are already in the repository