mdzenrico: please don't wait any further, we are under release pressure12:01
enricothom: nothing too bad, I'll probably ask you to have a look at them just to see if we got the categories right.  Plus, the docs don't actually show up in Yelp's TOC12:01
mdzit is much easier to make progress once it is in the archive12:01
enricomdz: ok, I can upload now.  Is there a wiki page with the procedure?  (like, a dput snippet?)12:01
thomenrico: you're runnign scrollkeeper-update in postinst?12:01
mdzenrico: yes, on DeveloperResources12:01
enricothom: I'm calling dh_scrollkeeper and hoping it does the right thing12:01
enricomdz: thanks!12:02
Kamionmdz: do I remember correctly that you asked Mithrandir about the utf8-migration-tool build failure?12:03
Kamionmdz: it's trivial to fix, I have a patch12:03
seb128sivang: better with the gnome version ?12:03
seb128sivang: the standard one should display something about gnome components12:03
mdzKamion: yes, I did.  is he away or something?  he has not been around much12:03
mdzKamion: feel free to fix it12:03
sivangseb128: une minute, checking with a fresh source12:06
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enricoshould I use ubuntu in the version number even if the package is not in Debian?12:06
mdzenrico: no12:08
mdzI updated the instructions on the wiki to reflect that, about 10 seconds after I mentioned the page12:08
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enricomdz: :)12:09
enricomdz: uploading now12:09
mdzenrico: if you give me the names of the binary packages, I'll add them to the supported seed12:09
enricomdz: ubuntu-docs, ubuntu-quickguide, ubuntu-faqguide12:10
enricoubuntu-docs contains the about ubuntu and release notes12:10
enricoubuntu-quickguide is cool and reviewed for Hoary12:11
sivangseb128: Merci beaucoup! That was it! How can I be aware of this nex time?12:11
enricoI'm waiting for plovs to tell us something about the up-to-dateness of the faqguide (bugzilla #6789)12:11
thommdz: do you have any problem with removing apm from everyting that's not i386?12:11
seb128dunno, the gtk version should display some messages about it12:11
sivangseb128: well, it didn't. what are the differences?12:11
mdzthom: does apm not work at all on amd64?12:12
seb128sivang: you are asking the difference between gtk and gnome ?12:12
mdzor is it irrelevant because amd64 systems are all new enough to use ACPI?12:12
enricothe quickguide is like 95%  finished and reviewed12:12
sivangseb128: hrm I'll msg you for clarity12:12
seb128sivang: the gtk version has the gtk widgets, the gnome the gtk and gnome ones12:12
thommdz: everything i've seen suggests the latter12:12
sivangseb128: ah ok :)12:12
mdzthom: go for it12:12
enricoWorst case, we release with ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-quickguide only12:12
sivangseb128: thanks again, really.12:13
mdzthom: hmm, though12:13
mdzthom: has ubuntu-meta been fixed to recognize that syntax?12:13
Kamionmdz: I think I did so12:13
enricomdz: uploaded.12:14
thomwell, that's just [i386]  right; certainly there are other examples but i'll suck it and see12:14
=== schweeb_ is now known as schweeb
Kamionubuntu-meta (0.18) hoary; urgency=low12:14
Kamion  * Improve update to handle architecture-specific seed entries.12:14
mdzyep, looks like you did12:14
mdzthom: should be fine, then12:15
Kamionmdz: utf8-migration-tool> dunno. fixed.12:15
thom > > > Umm, I dont think so.  apm does not exist on amd64, cannot exist and12:16
thom> > > > never will exist.  Please back this out.12:16
thomsomeone seems pretty sure12:16
thom(interestingly, inotify never caused me any problems on amd64)12:19
schweebthat gnome-app-installer thing is a pretty neat idea guys12:20
schweebI commend thee12:20
danielsmdz: yeah, -0.2 has -x in .config.in and .postinst.in; -1 doesn't12:27
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mdzdaniels: -1 should be good to upload, then.  my upgrades were fine12:28
danielsmdz: ok12:30
danielsmdz: uploaded, I'm gone for about 6 hours now12:33
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pittinight everybody12:35
sivangpitti: night!12:36
thomKamion: desktop/powerpc: Skipping package apmd (not for this architecture) (you rock, as usual)12:38
trulux blt-common fam gnome gnome-core-devel gnome-cpufreq-applet gnome-desktop-environment gnome-devel libbonoboui2-dev12:38
trulux  libeel2-dev libfam0c102 libgnome-desktop-dev libgnome2-dev libgnomeui-dev libgnomevfs2-dev libgtop2-4 libnautilus2-212:38
trulux  libnautilus2-dev libopenh323-1.13.2 libpanel-applet2-dev libpt-1.6.3 libsoup2.0-dev libxslt1-dev nautilus-media12:39
trulux  python-fixedpoint python-gtkextra python-mpz trashapplet12:39
truluxbeing removed12:39
truluxin dist-upgrade to Hoary12:39
truluxthis is suspicious12:39
truluxalso, libgtksourceview couldn't get installed  because it was trying to overwrite a file from other pkg12:39
truluxanyone knows about this?12:39
kentschweeb, i was thinking the opposite earlier today. gnome-app-installar is in Program->system tools  and does nothing that synaptic doesn't, and synaptic is in another place in the menu. It seems weird to have a small synaptic substitute in another place in the menu. Its just confusing to have two places to install programs from. 12:40
mvokent: we got a lot of report that people find synaptic confusing. all this libraries and strange applications all over the place. 12:41
schweebkent: what mvo said.  gnome-app-installer provides users with a view of how GNOME would think of the apps, rather than how apt sorts the apps.  plus it doesn't show you all the bazillion deps that most people don't need to know about to install an app12:43
schweebit's kinda similar to windows' add/remove programs thinger... but more useful, and with apt tied in12:44
=== mvo needs sleep
tsenganyone working on packaging clearlooks?12:48
jdubtseng: it's already in universe12:48
tsengjdub: man, you rock.12:48
jdubtseng: i uploaded 0.3 the other day12:48
Kamionthom: glad to hear it ;)12:48
jdubbut it is not12:48
jdubelmo: ping12:48
tsengmaybe in NEW12:48
Kamionthom: at the moment I mostly just sway, hard training this week12:48
jdubmaybe elmo hasn't processed NEW yet12:48
=== mdz gives the buildds kdelibs to chew on
thomKamion: heh, learning how to do high kicks on slippery floors?12:49
Kamionfortunately the dojo floor is quite non-slippery12:50
thombut how will you then learn to cope with hotels?12:50
thomyour life may depend on it!12:50
Kamionbetter balance :-)12:50
thomseb128: btw, metacity changing windows when something pops up is really freaking weird12:54
lamontmdz: you want me to fix the -x in the config and then upload that?12:55
mdzlamont: daniels already did12:55
seb128thom: "changing windows" ?12:55
thomseb128: desktops, i mean12:55
mdzlamont: do you have some convenient way that you can be notified when kdelibs has been built?  once it's done, kdepim needs to be retried12:55
thomif something becomes active on another desktop12:55
seb128thom: is that new with today's upload ?12:56
lamontmdz: kinda sorta12:56
mdzlamont: can you do a manual dep-wait or something?12:56
lamontI'll kick it12:56
lamontyeah - manual dep is what it'll get12:56
thomseb128:     - when receiving a _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW message, switch to the desktop12:56
thom      where the window is located before activating instead of moving the12:56
thom      window to the current desktop.12:56
thomin .2112:56
seb128when does that happen ?12:56
seb128I've not noticed :)12:56
mdzKamion: how much work remains on your end to build Kubuntu CDs, once all of the packages are in main (should happen tomorrow)12:57
thomseb128: open a Netwrok Servers window, change desktop, open it again12:57
lamontseb128: bug-buddy ftbfs12:58
seb128lamont: k, thanks12:58
lamontpitti: curl same thing12:58
seb128thom: network server like in network:/// ?12:59
mdzpitti isn't here12:59
thomseb128: Places/Network Server12:59
seb128doesn't change the desktop here01:00
thomdoes here01:00
thomit's totally freaky01:00
thomanyway, sleep01:00
=== thom &|
=== sivang fixes a dreamcatcher for thom to protect him from moz nightmares.
lamontmdz: depwaiterd01:02
seb128'night thom 01:02
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jdubmdz: (all of kde is going in main, or just libs and friends?)01:03
=== lamont drives a couple miles to visit bandwidth-boy
mjg59Anyone here on PPC?01:03
mdzjdub: everything used in kubuntu01:04
mdzlamont-away: thanks01:04
jdubmdz: hrm.01:05
mdzjdub: which has already been ANDed with a security/supportability review conducted by the Kubuntu team, Martin Pitt, myself and others from ubuntu-devel over the past few weeks01:06
jbaileymjg59: I am.01:06
tritiummjg59, I have a PPC I can ssh into if you need...01:06
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mdzamu, Riddell, haggai: will Kubuntu use polypaudio?01:08
jdubkubuntu has to use arts atm01:09
Kamionmdz: basically a matter of checking over all uses of $DIST and replacing some of them with $PROJECT-$DIST, I think01:10
mdzKamion: does it make sense at all for kubuntu to have a supported seed at this point?01:11
seb128jdub: you big freak, stop flooding my log files with audio stuff01:11
jdubseb128: ;)01:12
mjg59jbailey: Running ubuntu?01:12
Kamionmdz: they might want some stuff in supported that isn't there already from Ubuntu, but I certainly don't think it makes any sense for them to duplicate our supported seed01:12
jbaileymjg59: Yeah.  It's my primary box.  Pegasos2.01:12
Kamions/in supported/in main/01:12
tritiumDoes anybody have a multi-binary python package that uses cdbs?  If so, I'd like to see how you setup your debian/rules file.01:13
mdzKamion: right, at this point, anything they want in main should be added to desktop, live or ship01:13
mjg59jbailey: Hoary?01:13
jbaileymjg59: Yes, dear.01:13
mjg59And if so, latest kernel?01:13
mdzKamion: I suppose germinate would get unhappy if I just deleted supported from the kubuntu archive, though, yes?01:13
Kamionmdz: correct. I haven't made the seed structure distro/suite-specific yet.01:13
mjg59jbailey: Any chance that you could test suspend-to-disk? :)01:13
jbaileymjg59: ii  linux-image-2. 2.6.10-24      Linux kernel image for version 2.6.10 on Pow01:14
Kamion(similarly I suspect current germinate won't work too well with warty seeds, oops)01:14
tsengmjg59: i tested it via the gnome logout screen01:14
tsengmjg59: i get some hd activity, then a blank screen01:14
tsengpower never goes to off or standby01:14
mjg59jbailey: Yeah, that one should have it01:14
jbaileymjg59: I've never tried it.  Lemme save everything. =)01:15
mjg59tseng: Could you disable USE_DPMS in /etc/default/acpi-support ?01:15
tsengmjg59: sure01:15
mjg59jbailey: Heh. Yes, you probably want to sync as well01:15
mjg59tseng: This was on x86, right?01:15
mdzKamion: currently, kubuntu has a supported seed which doesn't make much sense for kubuntu-in-ubuntu-main (it removes the gnome stuff and adds kde stuff)01:15
mjg59jbailey: You'll need to have RESUME set in your initrd01:15
tsengi edieted acpi-support in the past, should i purge and reinstall?01:15
schweebtseng: what laptop you got?01:16
tsengdell 600m01:16
schweebtseng: I'll be workin on gettin my i8200 workin later01:16
tsengtrying again, brb01:16
amumdz: no, the kdeguys told me at weekend it will come with kde 401:16
jbaileymjg59: Yeah, the auto-detection of the resume is still on my TODO list.  Although I did have the evil idea of instead of auto detecting it at install time, that it might be fun to autodetect the swap partition at bootup time.01:17
jbaileymjg59: Install time is probably better for Hoary.01:17
mdzamu: ok, I was just merging the seed changes for kubuntu01:17
mjg59jbailey: Yeah01:17
mjg59tseng: Might be an idea, yeah01:17
jbaileyNever thought the first time I did suspend-to-disk would be on a desktop machine. =)01:18
Kamionmdz: *nod*01:18
amumdz: it will be gstreamer in feature01:19
tsengmjg59: yeah I believe you are right.01:19
sivangjbailey: it's working on a desktop machine? wooha I need try this here with my -smp kernel :)01:19
jbaileymjg59: So for now, do I just poke the major:minor into /sys/power/resume ?01:19
tsengmjg59: i think i was just not waiting long enough, it seems to take a few minutes to completely shut down01:19
jbaileysivang: I have not yet tested it.01:19
sivangjbailey: ah01:20
tsengmjg59: hard to judge if something is happening when the screen is off. thanks for the tip01:20
mjg59jbailey: Yeah, but make sure that the initrd has it set as well, otherwise it won't resume01:20
schweebmjg59: couldn't you also set it on the kernel command line?01:22
mjg59schweeb: Yeah, but that's a pain on the pegasos (well, on the pegasos I, at least)01:23
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jbaileymjg59: Appears to work from a text console, trying from X.01:26
Kamionlamont_r: when's the next kernel upload planned?01:27
Kamionlamont_r: was kinda wondering if I could squish nfs-modules udebs into it ...01:28
jbaileymjg59: Works just ducky from X, too.01:28
lamont_rKamion: I think it's planned for thursday, give or take01:29
lamont_rwhen is preview freeze, I wonder...01:29
jbaileymjg59: I had to do it twice in X, though.  The first time it didn't power off.  I think because I touched a key.01:29
mjg59jbailey: Oh, fucing rock01:29
Kamionlamont_r: Wednesday01:29
lamont_rbecause it should be before that01:29
lamont_rcould be tomorrow01:29
jbaileymjg59: The box cheerfully turned off and everything.01:29
mjg59Kamion: It'd be cool if you could test suspend-to-disk on PPC too01:29
mjg59jbailey: That's excellent01:29
Kamionmjg59: will do tonight, just burning a CD now01:30
mjg59jbailey: So we can support suspend to disk and ram on most Apple laptops, and to disk on the rest of PPC01:30
mjg59Well, except G5s01:30
lamont_rKamion: I think t-bone is working on merging everything together, and then I'll do the commit tomorrow evening/wed AM ish01:30
jbaileyI'll get install time post inst to do put the swap partition in first thing tomorrow then.01:31
mjg59jbailey: Is that done before the kernel is installed?01:31
jbaileyI'm guessing it would have to be.01:31
Kamionlamont_r: I'll get you a baz branch with the changes I'd like to have01:31
mjg59jbailey: Ok, cool01:32
lamont_rawesome - actually, poke t-bone with the branch name01:33
lamont_r--pre25--2.6.10 is there to start from01:33
Kamionlamont_r: oh, t-bone is merging and then you're merging from him?01:34
lamont_ryeah - he's going to put it all together, and then I'm going to do the actual commit and build of test images01:34
lamont_rsomething to do with write access to the tree... :-(01:35
lamont_rand he may or may not still need some baz tutorial help01:36
=== jbailey hopes for a remedial baz workshop at UDU.
jbaileymjg59: Hmm.  This might be imperfect, can I /msg you a flood?01:41
Kamionlamont_r: you'll want to install kernel-wedge 1.25.1ubuntu4 when it appears01:41
lamont_rKamion: ok. hopefully it'll be in the archive before 02:00 london time??01:42
lamont_rthen it's automatic on the buildd's, you see..01:42
Kamionlamont_r: I just uploaded it, so should be01:42
mdzanyone know about aspell?01:43
mjg59jbailey: Sure01:43
mdzthere are a bunch of RC bugs imported from Debian regarding the aspell 0.60 transition01:43
Kamionmdz: ah, Mithrandir was at FOSDEM, that would explain it01:44
mdzI intend to close them all unless we are going to be forced to update to 0.60 at some point in the future (i.e., by GNOME)01:44
mdzKamion: aha01:44
jbaileymjg59: 'kay, lemme just reboot first so it doesn't fill up my logs.  Basically the scanner keeps disconencting and reconnecting.01:44
zullamont_r: that build with include the atapi cd-rom stuff01:46
zuloh sata01:46
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mjg59jbailey: Yeah, you probably want to rmmod the USB stuff before suspend and modprobe it afterwards01:52
jbaileymjg59: Oy, really?01:53
mjg59Yeah, the USB suspend support is still crack01:53
jbaileyrmmod'ing usb means losing my keyboard.01:53
mjg59Check out the stuff in acpi-support on x86. We'll need to do something similar for ppc.01:53
jbaileymjg59: Hmm.  Is there a bug on that I can cc: myself on?  I don't imagine that I'd look at that in the next couple of days.01:54
mjg59Not that I know of - we've just worked around it on x8601:54
=== sivang --> g_get_sleep(G_SOME_SLEEP);
tsengits valid to tell people to report bugs upstream if it doesnt seem to be a packaging issue, correct?02:12
tsenggentoo was a little crackful about keeping bugs because so many upstreams hate on gentoo users02:12
zulheh and how02:13
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Kamioneek, synaptic's sources.list editor doesn't let me add arbitrary repositories any more?02:23
Kamionthat sucks02:23
jdub_Kamion: you're probably capable of adding them yourself though :)02:24
mjg59Is the list of changes between the preview release and Hoary final going to be kept and made publically available?02:24
Kamionsure, I am, but it's a retrograde step02:24
mjg59(solves all sorts of I tried this but it sucked/ate my cat/molested my wife issues)02:24
Kamionmjg59: hoary-changes is archived02:24
jdub_Kamion: (btw, just hit custom)02:25
jdub_why is pulling anal retentive stuff out that users don't understand a retrograde step?02:25
mjg59Kamion: It'd be nice if there was a summary page for the final release02:26
Kamion'cos users add custom repositories for third-party applications all the time02:26
Kamionwe want to encourage third-party vendors to set up apt repositories, right?02:26
jdub_sure, but we won't be encouraging users to enter them manually02:27
Kamionah, custom, ok, I didn't see that02:27
KamionI stand corrected :)02:27
jdub_and one look at that dialogue shows you it shouldn't be there02:27
Kamion(it's in a kind of strange place in the dialog ...)02:27
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KamionI guess I should resign myself to it getting harder and harder to use my nice local mirror02:28
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jdub_Kamion: vi /etc/apt/sources.list is as hard as it has ever been02:28
tsengwb luis_ 02:28
Kamionthere was a period when it was relatively easy with synaptic :)02:28
tsengluis_: for your next livecd run, muine is now in hoary universe. have fun02:28
tsengluis_: please drop anything you got from my webspace02:29
jdubraw tseng power!02:29
zulmdz: missing proc_name for 3w-9xx will go in the uplaod after this one02:30
mdzzul: thanks02:30
luis_tseng: will do, thanks02:31
tsengnp luis_, will have to try your cd one of these days02:34
Kamionhmm, one miiillion deprecation warnings in system-config-kickstart. better fix those.02:35
=== Kamion wonders if it would be possible for pygtk to warn only about the first use of gtk.TRUE and gtk.FALSE ...
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Kamionupdate-manager is really sweet02:39
=== mjg59 -> bed
Kamionmjg59: if you wait five minutes I'll be able to tell you whether s-t-d on my powerbook works02:43
KamionOTOH you may be able to wait until tomorrow :)02:43
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mdzlamont_r: kdelibs built an hour ago, but kdepim hasn't yet02:57
=== lamont_r goes to stare at things
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lamont_rmdz: it's building on terranova (i386) and others03:06
mdzlamont_r: thanks03:10
Kamionmjg59: hmm. even after a certain amount of hacking to make all the power scripts exit zero, pbbuttonsd doesn't seem to be sending the machine to s-t-d.03:11
lamont_rmdz: was already building, that is03:11
mdzlamont_r: interesting; has it really been building that long?03:11
Kamionhm, except maybe it isn't pbbuttonsd's responsibility03:13
Kamionwhat actually does the final step of making a system suspend?03:13
lamont_rkdelibs is a 80 minute build, and kdepim is about the same03:13
mdzKamion: on i386, /etc/acpi/sleep.sh03:18
mdzKamion: in theory I think powermanagement-interface is supposed to abstract this, but at the moment it seems to be acpi-specific03:19
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mdzKamion: if you find out, please update powermanagement-interface :-)03:19
Kamionmdz: see the source; powermanagement-interface does have pmu support03:24
Kamionhm, suspended but didn't come back up; perhaps if I were intelligent I'd make the hibernate script finish off by calling resume03:24
Kamionmdz: however, pbbuttonsd doesn't seem to have a triggerable action for "suspend to disk", only TAG_GOTOSLEEP which == suspend-to-ram03:25
Kamionpmi works fine for suspend-to-ram, though03:25
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mdzKamion: oh, I see.  I didn't notice it was arch: any03:29
mdzKamion: maybe pmi should trigger the swsusp itself, then?03:30
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=== lamont_r heads back home
Kamionmdz: no, it needs to be in pbbuttonsd so that it can work if you change the coveraction or keyaction to suspend-to-disk03:33
Kamionor in some package that installs scripts into /etc/power/03:33
zulmdz: you know that vfat synchronous support mandrake has a patch that we could use03:45
mdzzul: oh, interesting03:48
zulill test it out 03:49
zuland they use the same inotify we use in -2303:49
mdzthe one that broke GNOME?03:49
zulgood point03:50
tsenghave you diffed them?03:50
zulnot yet03:50
tsengor just looked at version string03:50
zulversion string03:50
jdubseb was saying their inotify issues are resolved03:50
jdubi might check up on their gamin package03:50
zulmandrake's inotify is different from ours03:53
=== tseng looks for cooker srpms
Kamionlamont-away: where's that --pre25--2.6.10 branch you mentioned?03:55
=== Kamion can't find it on chinstrap or rookery
tsengi can only find rpms03:56
tsenghm of course03:56
Kamionlamont-away: oh, never mind, I'm stupid03:56
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zulthe inotify patch is the same from kernel.org though03:57
tsengjdub: http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/gamin-0.0.24-inotify017.patch is in the srpm04:00
=== tseng grabs ubuntu source to stare and compare
lamontKamion: glad you found it.\04:00
jdubwow, they're shipping 0.17?04:00
tsengzul can speak for whats in the kernel04:01
tsengive not looked04:01
zuljdub: this is what they have in the kernel http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel/FS18_inotify-0.18-rml-2.6.10-16.patch04:02
tsengzul: ill apply their patch to gamin and try to boot with inotify04:02
tsenghows that04:02
zulthat would be good04:03
Kamionlamont: so if I mail a merge request to kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com, will that reach the right people?04:03
tsengsending to pbuilder now04:03
zulKamion: yes04:04
tsengerrored out, win04:04
tsengIn file included from gam_inotify.c:38:04:05
tsenglocal_inotify.h:23: error: `INOTIFY_FILENAME_MAX' undeclared here (not in a function)04:05
zulKamion: eventually all three of us will be able to do an upload04:05
tsengbut thats the only patch they apply to 0.0.2404:06
zulgimme a sec.04:07
zullets try google04:07
tsengPatch0: interface with inotify 0.17 (not 0.18 yet)04:07
Kamionzul: ok, sent04:07
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wasabiso how's nfsv4 coming?04:15
zulits not really going anywhere04:16
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zulthere is alot on the plate right now as it is04:21
tseng'server/gam_poll.c: try to avoid the /media/ mount problem in 0.0.24'04:29
tsengthis is one of our issues I believe04:29
tsenghm inotify 0.19 support was added on Feb 1004:30
tsengwhich was before .24.. looks like the mandrake patch actually is reverting to .1704:30
tsengthat makes sense now04:30
tsengzul: know anything about 0.19?04:32
tsengzul: im feeling brave04:32
Kamionjdub: moderation of my message to kernel-team@ would be handy04:34
Kamionif you could04:34
lamontmdz/jdub around?04:35
lamontso inotify...04:35
lamontif we drop that back to .17 to match gamin, that's almost certainly a kernel abi event.04:35
lamontthoughts on that front?04:35
tsenglamont: im going to test .19 here04:35
tsengif no one has yet04:35
lamonttseng: that'd be way cool04:35
tsengfetching linux-source atm04:36
jdublamont: i don't think it's worth falling back04:36
tsenggamin looks to support .19 in 0.2404:36
lamontok.  we know that 17->18 was an abi bump.  18->19 may be as well.04:36
tsengill remove .18 and zuls no-default patch and drop in .1904:36
lamontjdub: so the question is, if it is an abi bump to go to .19, do we want to do that the day before preview freeze?04:37
lamontalso, I need mdz/jdub to tell me to go ahead and cause an rsyncability-event for amd64's livecd (since it doesn't have garbage collection, and therefore grows over time...)04:37
Kamionlamont: that last can be after preview freeze, can't it?04:38
lamontKamion: anytime people want04:38
tsengoh jeez04:38
lamontit's literally simply the case of me removing the previous day's image04:38
tsengthere are a bunch of inotify patches04:38
jdublamont: i'm coming around to the idea that we should ship without inotify turned on by default, but we should endeavour to have a working version.04:38
tsengmind if i just patch my sources by hand?04:38
lamonttseng: given a working inotify, it'd be nice if it matched some combination of upstream patches... but working is even better... :-)04:39
zultseng: i couldnt get 0.19 to compile04:42
tsengI dont understand the split up patches, but i rm *inotify* and dropped mine in04:42
zulwell the latest 0.19 04:42
tsengwe'll see04:42
tsengim guessing it compiles for at least rml and whoever wrote the code for gamin04:43
jdubjohn mccutcheon04:43
drbytetseng: daniel veillard. it seems to work for fedora/rawhide (compiles, runs). though we're seeing regression with usb thumb drives being locked04:43
jdubdrbyte: fedora isn't shipping inotify04:44
tsenglocked on unmount?04:44
drbytejdub: no, but gamin has inotify support. even though the abi might change, dv's gotten some steam from arjanv04:44
tsengor just not catching the file alteratioin on mount04:44
jdubtseng: fedora uses dnotify, so gets the file usage on removable drives problem04:44
tsengI see, right04:44
jdubdrbyte: i think you missed a bit of the conversation or something :)04:45
drbytejdub: possibly. reading scrollup now 04:45
tsengdrbyte: we've been having issues with inotify .18 and gamin .24 causing a hardlock on startup04:45
mdzlamont: kernel ABI change should probably be OK before preview if we stage the update elsewhere first, and synchronize things so that we don't build broken CDs04:45
tsengis the crux of the issue04:45
tsenglooking to fix one of the components and happily move forward04:46
jdubwe should just jump to 0.19 and leave it off by default04:46
tsengzul just said it didnt compile on last trial04:46
lamontmdz: so you're saying before preview freeze, or before preview?04:46
=== jdub molests rml.
jdubcan anyone else process NEW?04:46
tsengjdub: im doing my own test atm04:46
mdzlamont: after array 6, before preview (during preview freeze)04:47
mdzjdub: no04:47
=== lamont realizes that this is the last day of a short month, burns bandwidth quota
mdzlamont: but in the specific case of inotify, re-enabling it at that point doesn't seem very wise04:47
lamontmdz: so don't bump ABI with tomorrow's upload, but OK to include a new inotify patch post preview-freeze (after array 6), but leave inotify disabled by default.04:47
mdzwithout serious hoary-external testing04:47
lamontyeah - it's default state wants to stay off until after hoary ships04:48
mdzlamont: that sounds reasonable, yes.  we just shouldn't create kernel churn right now, when we'll be preparing Array 6 tomorrow04:48
lamontvery true04:48
=== lamont points T-None at this area of his scrollback
lamontzul: sound good to you on the inotify front?04:49
zulyep..sounds good to me04:49
tsengwhats this crack about having 30 00list's?04:50
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zulwelcome to the world of ubuntu kernel04:50
=== tseng takes a hit
tsengdoes it actually read all these?04:51
lamonttseng: for reasons unknown, yes.04:51
lamontbut it unapplies all of the ones older than the last one, too.04:51
zulthen there are directories like linux-source-2.6.10-2.6.10-1 etc04:52
lamontit's to warm up the heads on the disk for serious compile work04:52
tsengoh the -X is the revisions04:52
tsengso i want -2404:52
lamontactually, it'll wind up being linux-source-2.6.10-2.6.10 when unpacked, or are you talking about inside the unpacked source/04:52
zulinside the unpacked source 04:53
tsengis where im currently hitting the crack pipe04:53
lamontfind  debian/patches/ -type d04:53
lamontmust be in the building source.04:53
jdubtseng: coming to UDU?04:53
lamontand what really matters there is the debian/build directory04:53
tsengjdub: nope, sorry04:54
zultseng: if you just want to compile for 686 you have to modify the flavours in the debian/rules to say 68604:54
tsengi dont have a fulltime job atm, no chance for that sort of plane ticket04:54
tsengzul: eh, ok04:54
tsengit failed anyway04:55
zulyou should come to ols then :)04:55
jdubtseng: what's your day job atm?04:56
zuldid you turn the patch into dpatch?04:56
wasabidamn this wiki04:56
tsengjdub: only working part time atm for my uncle.. hoping to scare up some employment interest with my talk at a linux security conference on Saturday.04:57
tsengzul: ya04:57
jdubtseng: rawk04:57
tsengim still farked in some 00list04:57
jdubsa-learn is slow04:58
tsengsa is overdue for a rewrite in C05:00
tseng00list proper must be generated on each pass05:04
lamont00list proper is generated each loop, yes05:08
tsengfrom 00list-X where X = revision?05:09
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lamontand, if present, from 00list-X.${ARCH}05:09
tsengbecause i removed references to inotify .17 in -2405:09
tsengand they are sitll reappearing in 00list05:09
tsengwhich is causing the entire process to go nowhere fast05:10
wasabiarchive question. I am working on Java packaging. I have a TON of cyclic dependencies.05:10
wasabimany layers deep. Luckily, they are arch-indep.05:10
wasabiwhat can be done?05:10
zulyou could not use java :)05:11
wasabiokay, no java for ubuntu.05:11
wasabii can live with that!05:11
zuli dont like java05:12
tsengobviously :)05:19
zulwell if you had to modiy a crappy groupware written in java you would too05:21
tsengcya zul 05:24
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lamontwasabi: if you get it down to a list of 'take these debs from here, use them to build all these, and then rebuild everything, I can make that happen05:28
lamontbut it needs to happen soonish...05:28
wasabiit's not for hoary.;05:28
wasabinot a chance. =)05:28
lamontthat is, to get it into the archive (eventually), I'll want the minimum set of packages to break the circular dependency.  Then we build everything twice (for my sanity), and the second round is what goes in the archive05:29
lamontwhich reminds me. time to go do mass give-backs on i386 and amd6405:30
dholbachdaniels: thanks for fixing xvfb-run :-)05:31
tsengah I'm stupid05:34
tsengseems to go happily along if I make a new -2505:35
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dholbachnight ogra05:48
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jdubuh oh06:09
jdubbeagle 0.0.706:09
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darkfusionI would like to report a problem with my compact flash reader, where should I start?06:31
dholbachor the mailing list: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com06:34
darkfusionthe problem is that I don't know to file against the kernel/hal/gnome-volume-manager 06:34
darkfusionthere is alot of stuff going on but I am not sure what is broken.06:35
dholbachthis is more a  #ubuntu -question06:35
darkfusionI asked but no one responded, I guess I will try again06:35
dholbachthe mailing list then is maybe a better place06:36
dholbachdarkfusion: good luck with it 06:36
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ficusplanetHey everyone.  Is there a reason that dbus-0.23.1 isn't being uploaded to hoary?  Would it break feature freeze?  I ask because it is required for the two most recent versions of beagle.06:46
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jdubficusplanet: daniels was going to do it; not sure where it's at.06:50
ficusplanetjdub: Thanks.  I was just making sure it hadn't slipped through the cracks.06:51
jdubhe may have decided not to do it, mind06:51
crimsundbus-0.23.2 in sid corrects the api & abi breakage between .1 and .206:52
ficusplanetjdub: I trust your/other ubuntu devs judgment on that stuff.  Just had the itch to play with beagle and noticed the discrepancy.06:52
jdubcrimsun: probably worth the sync and merge.06:52
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truluxdpkg: error al procesar /var/cache/apt/archives/libgtksourceview-common_1.1.92-0ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):07:50
trulux intentando sobreescribir `/usr/share/gtksourceview-1.0/language-specs/nemerle.lang', que est tambin en el paquete libgtksourceview-cil07:50
truluxthe upgrade is broken07:50
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jdubhello, derooter! :)08:43
pittiwell, no derooting tasks for Hoary any more :-)08:44
jdubUbuntu 5.04: Not Rooted Anymore08:45
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ajmitchpitti: hoary is 100% secure, then? ;)08:59
pittiajmitch, jdub: no :-( we don't want to mess anything up for Hoary any more09:00
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bob2mmm, setting up ubuntu servers is a pleasure09:08
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Treenaksbob2: how so?09:11
bob2all the apt love of a Debian server plus recent packages lovingly security fixed by our own mr pitt.09:12
jdubi'm running hoary on my linode ;)09:13
Treenaksjdub: did you see the photoshop contest links I sent? :)09:13
jdubhrm, no?09:14
bob2jdub: it's a 6 month release cycle, dude09:14
bob2control your hand-on-the-cvs-up-button urge09:14
jduband someone needs to test server stuff09:14
jdubi am someone09:14
jdubi test server stuff09:14
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bob2aptitude wants to slurp tons of random stuff in every time I run on09:20
jdubelmo: ping09:25
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seb128pitti: morning09:35
pittiHi seb128 09:35
seb128pitti: 09:35
seb128Mar  1 09:31:45 localhost hal.hotplug[5156] : timout(10000 ms) waiting for /bus/pci/slots09:35
seb128Mar  1 09:31:45 localhost pci.agent[7484] : Bad PCI agent invocation09:35
pittibah, the current live CD still has a broken keyboard setup09:35
pittidaniels: is it known that the live CD still sets up a pc104/us layout even for de_DE.UTF-8?09:41
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danielspitti: using xorg 6.8.2-1?10:22
pittidaniels: the powerpc live CD as of yesterday night10:22
pittidaniels: i. e. old version10:23
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danielspitti: anything older than 6.8.2-1 will be broken; the next livecd to get built (20050301, maybe 20050302) will have it10:24
pittidaniels: ah, cool. Then I test this again10:25
pittithen hopefully the icons will work again, too10:25
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seb128pitti: the icons are fixed with the new gtk10:27
pittiseb128: yes, I saw that10:27
pittiseb128: although I still don't understand why a cache is put below /usr10:28
danielspitti: cool.  20050301 shound do it10:28
danielsshould, even10:28
mvoseb128: mind if I upload a new gksu with different locking?10:28
seb128mvo: not at all, you are welcome to fix any GNOME bug :)10:29
mvoseb128: I guess there are enough of them for everyone :)10:29
danielsseb128: every bug is a GNOME bug!10:29
seb128daniels: so you are welcome to fix any bug you want :)10:30
jdubas long as it's black10:30
jdubblack as my heart10:30
seb128oh jdub is here10:30
seb128so I can say that again10:31
seb128STOP FLOODING :p10:31
seb128jdub: BTW about the debugging stuff, is that better than making -dbg packages ?10:32
seb128I've not read the whole thread yet10:32
jdublamont: heh, i've had soft_bounce = yes on my linode for the last few days. oops.10:32
jdubseb128: we'll have to do both10:32
jdubseb128: well, no, we want to do -dbg regardless; the other stuff is a new idea, and would be a cool bonus if we feel it's worth it.10:34
seb128BTW I'm really happy to have a nautilus-dbg10:34
seb128we get some nice backtrace upstream now10:35
jdubbeen useful? :)10:35
seb128when we get a nautilus crash from hoary I ask for the bt with nautilus-dbg10:35
seb128and apparently that works better for users than asking to build a debug version :)10:35
seb128we should really do a full -dbg archive aside10:36
jdubbtw, are our -dbg packages separate dbg data, or full dbg builds?10:37
seb128dbg datas10:38
seb128thanks to dh_strip10:38
seb128(it uses objcopy)10:38
Treenaksseb128: hm, can I get a debug-version of gst-plugins that way as well?10:39
Treenaksthen I'll recompile :)10:39
seb128speak about extra -dbg in the archive and elmo will track you down :p10:39
seb128I would like to have -dbg for evolution too10:40
torkeldaniels: I will try to find some time to verify that #4343 is really fixed this time, later today 10:40
seb128we really wants to set this -dbg tree10:40
jdubseb128: we'll make it happen at UDU :)10:40
seb128the other jeff really wants it too10:41
seb128so if we need some cdbs magic ... :)10:41
=== jdub will remember to tell jbailey he's "the other jeff" ;)
seb128but that's probably some buildd magic in this case10:42
seb128ah ah10:42
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jdubso dontreply@ubuntulinux.org is not a valid sender address10:42
jdubso i no longer get forum-posted mails to the lists10:42
jdubnet win or net loss?10:43
jdubyou be the judge ;)10:43
jdub'course it might just get me booted off the list, too10:43
thomi think the forums should be banned from the devel list in fact, tbh10:43
Treenaksjdub: readonly shouldn't be a problem.. then it's Just Another Archive10:44
Treenaks(with some fancy forum features)10:44
thomif people want to post they can damn well subscribe10:44
jdubalso, fiordland doesn't have rdns10:44
jdubthom: firefox has some "pass download requests to external manager" thing now, doesn't it?10:49
danielsagreed wrt forums->ubuntu-devel gate10:51
danielstorkel: word, thanks10:51
pittidaniels: is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1920 fixed in the latest Hoary packages?10:52
danielsoh my god10:53
danielspitti: no.  sigh.10:53
pittidaniels: this also needs new warty packages, I'm afraid10:53
pittidamn xpm bugs10:53
pittiand needs a whole lot of other package updates :-(10:53
danielsat this point, it would just be easier to surgically remove xpm support from every single package we have10:53
danielsand kick xpm the hell out of the archive10:54
jdubmdz: i told dbcw about omshell; he's cautiously interested10:54
danielsthat's, what, the 11th patch now?10:54
pittidaniels: can you do the warty update for x? I'll do all other packages10:54
danielspitti: what sort of timeframe?  i'm exhausted tonight (been sleeping on and off all day), so it probably won't happen for 24h or so10:56
pittidaniels: no worries10:56
pittidaniels: let's say hoary should be fixed by the preview release10:56
pittidaniels: and warty within a week?10:56
bob2lamont: what's with the control characters in /usr/share/doc/postfix/VIRTUAL_README.gz?10:56
danielspitti: ok, i'll try10:57
pittidaniels: at least this time the patch is easy10:57
pittidaniels: I still remember the mess with the previous xpm patch10:57
danielswhere we got up to the 7th or 8th version10:57
danielsAs I mentioned before along with my first review. This is just the tip of the10:58
danielsiceberg... unfortunately. There are more values from untrusted sources (image10:59
danielsfiles) which are used carelessly in loops and asignments.10:59
pittidaniels: would it make sense for hoary to remove xpm library support from X at all?10:59
pittidaniels: oh no, half a gazillion packages depend on it11:00
pittidaniels: so this waits for the massive X split then11:00
danielspitti: unfortunately gtk and stuff depends on it11:01
danielsi think gecko as well11:01
danielsbut if we could easily remove xpm support from those apps, then it is SERIOUSLY worth considering11:01
danielspitti: you know what -- I think it's doable11:04
pittidaniels: you mean to package libxpm separately?11:04
danielspitti: i mean to put libxpm in universe for hoary11:05
pittidaniels: hm, that would already be a step forward11:05
pittiand it should be hoaryable11:06
danielsit touches -- groff, xpdf, and a couple of others11:06
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jdubfebruary is rather short, isn't it? ;)11:23
=== jdub breaks out the pr0n
Treenaksjdub: maybe you should break out the cron too :P11:24
jdubjdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/11:30
Mithrandirmaswan: we'll GRAB his bandwith. :)11:31
MithrandirI should probably add some sound as well11:31
TreenaksMithrandir: to MithrandirTV?11:31
MithrandirTreenaks: no, just so I can hear what he's saying and stuff11:32
MithrandirI don't broadcast myself.11:32
TreenaksMithrandir: ah on the receiving end11:32
Mithrandirjdub: the buffering seems to be a bit tight -- never above 12-ish percent in totem11:32
rburtonwhoa, zoomed in jdub11:32
Treenakswith fadey edges!11:33
TreenaksGuest Stars!11:34
Mithrandirand the sound is a bit low11:35
MithrandirI want a decent way to mix multiple streams so I can tune their volumes since right now, jdub isn't noisy enough.11:36
sivangjdub: is this you?11:37
sivangmorning all!11:38
rburtonman jdub is nuts11:40
Treenaksrburton: what else is new11:40
pittiHi sivang11:40
rburtonTreenaks: erm. yeah, sorry for the useless statement11:40
Treenaksrburton: :P11:42
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sabdflanybody else finding the 6.8.2 Xorg packages cause problems?11:43
Mithrandirsabdfl: sorry I didn't answer you about the amd64 and ooo2 stuff, but my network connection at FOSDEM was spotty at the best.11:44
Mithrandirsabdfl: I don't know what the current state of ooo2 and amd64 is, but if it builds and works, it should work fine on ia64 as well, I'd imagine.11:44
sabdflMithrandir: it's not building on either11:45
sabdflif you can get it to build on amd64 it will probably go straight through on ia64 and t-bone will love you11:45
sivangpitti: Hi Martin! :)11:45
Mithrandirsabdfl: I can take a look, but no promises.11:46
sabdflso the new X packages work for everyone else but me? *grumble*11:46
sabdflMithrandir: np11:46
sivangsabdfl: I havn't upgraded since yesterday, doing now and will test also on the dell lappie, what machiens have you tried?11:46
sabdfldesktop box, fglrx driver11:46
sabdflwas working very nicely with previous packages11:46
sivangsabdfl: eh, then I have Nvidia, sorry :-/11:47
Treenakssabdfl: did the fglrx drivers get updated along with X?11:47
smurfixsabdfl: I vahe a laptop with fglrx, will try asap11:47
=== pitti never got any box running with fglrx
smurfixpitti: It gets worse. My desktop has an ati 700 with nonstandard wiring, neither fglrx nor radeonfb work with it11:48
sabdflati laptops are often customised beyond the point that the public drivers will work11:49
=== smurfix is really annoyed about that
smurfixsabdfl: true -- radeonfb doesn't work on the laptop :-/11:49
danielssmurfix: hmm, does the standard radeon driver for X work with it?11:50
sabdflah... comes up fine with open source ati driver, but not with fglrx11:50
danielssabdfl: hmm, fglrx's broken with yours11:50
mjg59smurfix: Hm. Radeonfb is no great loss.11:50
danielsah shit.  i really hope we don't have to update fglrx mid-freeze; can't think of anything that's changed there.11:50
smurfixdaniels: "it" == desktop or laptop?11:50
sabdfldaniels: fglrx was working perfectly yesterday, i was going to mail you and say "wow"11:50
danielssmurfix: the one you were complaining was broken11:50
sabdflvery fast11:50
danielssabdfl: heh :) well, if it doesn't work with 6.8.2, i'll roll packages with the new version11:50
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sabdfldaniels: good work onthe opengl front, btw, was that you?11:51
martinkMithrandir, upstream has patches to make ooo2 build on amd64 <http://blog.janik.cz/archives/2005-02-27T11_12_36.html> but it's not usable. And a successful amd64 port != ia64 port. There are assembler parts that need to be hand written for each c++ compiler abi11:51
smurfixdaniels: The standard driver is broken on the laptop, no display11:51
danielssabdfl: which opengl stuff?11:51
mjg59sabdfl: Suspend to disk on Apple seems to work11:51
danielssabdfl: i've done a lot of stuff recently11:51
sabdflseems to auto-detect whether or not the ATI opengl will work, and use that, otherwise uses Mesa11:51
danielssmurfix: oh wow, that's pretty impressive.  could you please send along an Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf?11:52
danielssabdfl: sadly I can't take the credit; that was ATI11:52
smurfixdaniels: on the desktop, both drivers give me really funky display artefacts which unfortunately are not conducive to doing actual work :-/11:52
Mithrandirmartink: why does OOO have hand-written assembler?  That's just _wrong_11:52
danielssmurfix: ack11:52
smurfixdaniels: I'll 11:52
sabdflMithrandir: yowser11:52
smurfix... do that11:52
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mjg59sabdfl: So we've got some degree of suspend support on all Apple laptops, and suspend to RAM on most of them11:53
martinkMithrandir, somewhere deep inside its component system it does weird stuff with C++ virtual function tables11:53
Mithrandirmartink: it's wrong, I'm sure. :)11:53
danielsholy shit, major bugzilla bustage11:56
danielsjdub: check out the submitter name in https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=701911:57
Treenaksnice one11:57
jdubouch :)11:58
jdubjustdave: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=701911:58
lu|cookieare you sure the submitter didn't actually put that as their name?12:03
jdubjdubtv is back up12:04
d3vic3jdubtv ?12:05
seb128jdub: we should move evince in ship 12:05
Treenaksjdub: hoary should have a "jdubtv" bookmark of some kind by default.. or a default "recently used" entry12:06
smurfixsabdfl, daniels: the new X with fglrx works fine on my laptop.12:06
jdubseb128: ship?12:06
jdubd3vic3: http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/12:06
seb128jdub: ship seed ?12:06
jdubseb128: ship implies supported :)12:06
=== ajmitch watches the jdub tv
seb128jdub: you don't want to support evince ?12:07
seb128jdub: dude12:07
jdubseb128: from my pov, we should either ship it in desktop or not support it :)12:07
seb128if you want to take me here, desktop and default viewer :p12:07
jdubit's very tempting12:08
seb128xpdf is ugly12:08
=== lu|cookie was boggled to see that xpdf was your default
=== lu|cookie is now known as luis_
danielsisn't gpdf the default in hoary?12:08
seb128type3 fonts/gpdf, bong12:08
seb128daniels: nop12:08
luis_I assume you've tested that in evince?12:09
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=== luis_ has not
seb128evince rocks12:09
danielsxpdf is pretty hideous, really12:09
danielsand doesn't it use lpr for printing?12:09
Treenaksdaniels: it uses "please enter a command here" for printing12:09
pittidoes evince support fullscreen?12:09
danielsluis_: when i got the original bug report, that certainly wasn't the name, so either bz mangled it, or they did (badly)12:09
seb128pitti: yep12:10
danielsTreenaks: whoohoo!12:10
seb128pitti: F1112:10
jdubseb128: hrrrrrrrrmrmrmrmr12:10
seb128jdub: bah, starts evince and xpdf and look12:10
smurfixdaniels: "startx -- -layout test :1" starts an X server on :1 but then runs the Gnome session stuff on :012:10
seb128jdub: how can we ship _that_ :p12:11
smurfixdaniels: The good part is that the ati driver now works on the laptop12:11
seb128libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libhowl.la'12:14
=== Mithrandir gives seb128 some libtool love
luis_daniels: query for other bugs where that user has commented, see if they are busted too12:14
seb128removing libhowl from libgnomevfs2 breaks other stuffs12:14
seb128is there something to do to fix that out of rebuilding the differents lib with the new gnomevfs ?12:15
Mithrandirseb128: sounds like said other stuff is built with old, broken libtools.12:15
jdubseb128: -Wl,--as-needed :-)12:15
jdubseb128: nothing else you can do, given the depends12:15
Mithrandirseb128: so probably not, no.12:16
seb128jdub: I'm tempted to do that12:16
danielssmurfix: cool.  as for the gnome stuff, yeah, that's wack.  you just can't run two gnome sessions as the same user on the same machine.12:16
mvopitti: do you know of any compatibility issues of the langpacks with python-gettext? I have some strange issues here that some strings are not translated when they are in the locale-langpack directory (but work fine in the normal locale-directory)12:16
pittimvo: are they present in both directories?12:16
smurfixdaniels: is that related to the multihead stuff? 'Cause it worked before12:16
pittimvo: does python-gettext use libintl from glibc or its own implementation?12:16
mvopitti: no idea 12:17
jdubseb128: will we have the switched Preferences and Administration in the next panel?12:17
danielssmurfix: nope, totally unrelated -- I've never been able to start two GNOME sessions as the same user on the same machine.  ask jdub :)12:17
mvopitti: I'll check. 12:17
pittimvo: strace12:18
pittimvo: that'll display you the files it looks for12:18
seb128jdub: today or tomorrow yep, today is a busy day12:18
seb128jdub: I've these howl issues12:18
seb128jdub: and they just changed the libwnck soname ... nice :/12:18
seb128jdub: so probably tomorrow12:18
seb128time to package the new tarballs, fix howl depends and migrate to the new wnck12:19
mvopitti: looks in both dirs and find the mo file in the langpack dir12:19
jdubseb128: boh!12:20
mvopitti: it still makes a differences, some strings in locale-langpack are not translated even if the mo file is exactly the same. any idea what could cause that?12:21
pittimvo: hmm, odd. It can correctly open the mo file?12:21
mvopitti: strace looks fine and a lot of the messages are translated it seems12:22
pittimvo: hmm, hard to tell without the code and mo files12:22
pittiKamion: just wanted to update the seeds12:23
pittiKamion: baz update -> "trouble reading checksum file for ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-155"12:23
pittiKamion: any idea?12:23
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pittiKamion: sorted it out, nevermind12:33
pittielmo_: I updated the language packs. There are three new languages requiring NEW love, I already seeded them. (not urgent, though)12:38
mvopitti: just checked the python source, the gettext module is implemented independently from the libc gettext implementation 12:44
pittimvo: so python-gettext needs the same patch12:44
mvopitti: yes, where is your original patch archived? I would like to use the same logic12:45
pittimvo: p.u.c/~pitti/ubuntu-altlocaledir.dpatch12:47
pittimvo: I extracted this dpatch from the glibc sources12:47
mvopitti: thanks12:48
pittiseb128: evince is b0rken. Whenever I open the menu, cpu goes to 100% and the program hangs12:48
seb128bt please12:50
seb128no such bug in the BTS or bugzilla12:50
pittiseb128: shall I file it in gnome's? it's universe, so ours is not appropriate12:51
seb128should be main12:51
seb128can you get a backtrace on http://rafb.net/paste/ ?12:51
pittiseb128: it's universe12:51
jdubpitti: seb has wishful thinking12:51
seb128pitti: yeah, but I want it as the default viewer12:51
seb128pitti: so I care about the bugs, universe or not12:52
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pittiseb128: hmm, I know what's wrong. A few seconds after startup, it begins to generate preview images12:53
Kamionpitti: what was it?12:54
pittiKamion: a missing public key in my keyring. The message could be a little less misleading though...12:54
seb128pitti: you start it on a document ?12:54
pittiseb128: yes12:54
seb128so different issue :)12:54
seb128pdf file ?12:54
seb128xpdf handles it fine ?12:55
pittiseb128: yes, the preview generation was started a little later after displaying the first page12:55
pittiseb128: but that's awful12:55
pittiseb128: with a 153 page diploma thesis, previews take a minute12:55
pittiseb128: yes, xpdf does it fine12:55
seb128you don't need to use the preview pane12:56
pittiseb128: even if I switch to "contents" (from preview) immediately, it still generates previews12:56
seb128and you can switch the pane to "index"12:56
seb128close it :p12:56
seb128BTW can you put the pdf somewhere ?12:56
=== pitti tries to click and sees no reaction
seb128I want to try here12:56
Kamionpitti: hah12:56
pittiseb128: bah, it is totally unresponsive12:57
pittiseb128: I put it on p.u.c12:57
=== thom continues on his apache 1.3 killing spree
pittiseb128: p.u.c./~pitti/diplom.pdf12:58
seb128just tried on a 110 pages pdf here12:58
seb128takes ~2s to make the thumbnailing12:58
seb128"You don't have permission to access /~pitti/diplom.pdf on this server."12:58
pittiseb128: if I just start "evince" without a document, and then open it from the menubar, then I don't have a preview pane,but still the CPU rattles12:59
pittiseb128: fixed12:59
seb128~4s to make the whole thumbnailing here01:00
seb128for the 134 pages01:00
seb128there is an issue on your box, can you get a bt ?01:00
pittiseb128: no, I deactivated the preview pane, now it does not appear any more, but it still takes ages01:00
seb128do you have message in the logs ?01:00
pittiseb128: nothing on stdout01:00
seb128have you just installed it ?01:01
pittiseb128: I'm on a Duron 1.3, not the fastest thing out ther01:01
pittiseb128: yes, installed 5 minutes ago01:01
seb128killall gconfd-2 ?01:01
seb128perhaps that's a config issue01:01
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pittiseb128: tried that. preview generation still lasts over 1 minute01:03
seb128and it eats CPU without opening a document ?01:03
pittiseb128: it opens the document01:03
seb128when you launch "evince" it opens a document ? 01:03
pittiseb128: but clicks, scrolls, etc. are delayed by several seconds (unresponsive)01:03
pittiseb128: no, I launched "evince diplom.pdf"01:04
seb128and I you close the preview pane01:04
seb128and restart it 01:04
Kamionmjg59: so you said that suspend-to-disk works on Apples; how did whoever it was get the userspace support set up?01:04
seb128is it slow ?01:04
pittiseb128: however, same thing if I just start "evince" and open the file from the menu01:04
mjg59Kamion: In what way?01:05
pittiseb128: as I said, even if the pane is disabled, it still genreates the previews (it shouldn't)01:05
mjg59Kamion: At the moment, you need to do it by hand01:05
pittiseb128: -> it is still slow and unresponsive01:05
seb128pitti: right, please fill a bug upstream :)01:05
pittiseb128: okay, I do01:05
pittiseb128: already there: #165413, and even more #16682501:08
seb128k, right01:09
seb128so I guess we will stick with xpdf for hoary :/01:09
pittiseb128: well, other than that it's quite nice, and even more, it's translatable (which xpdf isn't)01:10
seb128yeah :)01:10
pittiseb128: so if we could just disable thumbnails, it would be a nice thing01:10
seb128and it uses the gnome-pritting system01:10
Kamionmjg59: that's what I meant; any hints? :)01:10
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Kamionmjg59: I tried echoing disk to /sys/power/state from a power script, and my machine certainly suspended, but didn't resume01:11
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mjg59Kamion: You need the resume argument set in /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf and to regenerate your initrd01:12
mjg59If you've got any USB devices, you'll also want to unload the USB modules before suspend and reload them on resume01:15
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seb128elmo_: here ?01:24
rburtonhm, the hoary gmime-cil packages don't want to work01:27
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Keybukthom: fix firefox01:31
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MithrandirKeybuk: libtool makes me want to stab myself.01:44
KeybukMithrandir: want to maintain it?01:44
Keybukthat's how I felt when I started01:44
Mithrandirdo I look totally crazy, insane and out of my mind?01:44
Mithrandirit's convoluted three times within itself.01:45
Mithrandirit's just wrong and evil01:45
Keybukactually, yes01:45
Keybukyou do01:46
Mithrandir*sigh* :)01:46
MithrandirI'm not taking it.01:46
MithrandirI'm making you a multiarch patch, though01:47
KeybukI'll have to sweet-talk vorlon then I guess01:47
Mithrandirit doesn't need to go into sarge01:48
Mithrandir(or hoary)01:48
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KeybukNMU it in :P01:50
Mithrandiranything using multiarched libtoolised libs will have to be relibtoolised anyhow.01:51
Mithrandirsys_lib_dlsearch_path_spec=" /lib/i386-linux /usr/lib/i386-linux /usr/X11R6/lib/i386-linux /lib64/i386-linux /usr/lib64/i386-linux /usr/X11R6/lib64/i386-linux"01:55
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=== Mithrandir kicks himself.
MithrandirThou shall not work outside version controlled directories.02:05
danielshear hear02:05
Mithrandir(especially not when getting dirty with libtool)02:05
Simirahey! The only you're allowed to get dirty with is me!02:07
=== Treenaks ponders starting his very own Ubuntu-quotefile
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thomKeybuk: there's nothing wrong with firefox02:09
danielsthom: is that why you use epiphany?02:09
thomdaniels: not true any more02:09
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MithrandirSimira: not that kind of dirty.  Just my hands, dear.02:11
jdubthom: ...?02:11
SimiraMithrandir: dirty hands, eh?02:12
=== Mithrandir ruffles Simira
thomjdub: ?02:13
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Keybukthom: I'm getting pop-unders!02:23
Keybukfix it! fix it! fix it!02:23
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thomKeybuk: IZ GTK BOOG02:23
sivangthom: for sure :)02:24
zulKeybuk i can see thom postal 02:24
thomwell, metacity probably02:24
danielsthom: totally02:24
Keybukis firefox bug for not blocking them in the first place :)02:24
danielsi wish seb would fix gtk's input method so it would get the keymap out of the d-i selection also02:24
thomi get no popup02:24
Keybukitv-f1.com is the most annoying example02:24
danielshaving all these bugs assigned to xorg for xkb is totally lame02:24
Keybukthom: read the news, someone figured out a way round the pop-up blocker and suddenly everyone's doing it :-/02:25
danielsKeybuk: wfm hth hand kthxbye02:25
thomKeybuk: sorry, no popups here02:25
daniels'Firefox prevented this site from opening a popup window.  Click here for options...'02:25
mvoping doko02:25
Keybukhmm, ok; ignore that one :)  that one was in my allowed list02:26
Keybukbut there was other sites that do it now :(02:26
thomlamer :P02:26
dokomvo: pong02:26
Keybukthom: fix rpm :p02:27
danielsKeybuk: fix hct :P02:27
thomKeybuk: clear it with mdz02:27
Keybukdaniels: is fixed :)  will be a new release in a couple of weeks02:28
danielsKeybuk: where's the couple of weeks come from if it's already fixed, eh?02:29
Keybukdaniels: sourcerer02:29
Keybukwant that to be finished this week, so source package imports can happen02:30
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=== Mithrandir chuckles
=== tritium [~tritium@ee213-dhcp-4.ecn.purdue.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KeybukFrom: Debian Installer <installer@ftp-master.debian.org>02:40
Keybuktorkel: Rob Weir <rob@ertius.org>, Rob Weir <keybuk-sponsoring-rweir@debian.org>02:40
KeybukSubject: bazaar_1.1.1-1_i386.changes ACCEPTED02:40
Keybukbob2's first package02:40
pittibob2: congrats02:40
danielskeybuk-sponsoring-rweir@? :P02:40
KamionKeybuk: yeeees, including the extra-special "let's use a version number already used in Ubuntu but for a non-identical package"02:41
Keybukdaniels: actually, in reality, bob2 had /nothing/ to do with it -- I just didn't want to maintain another Debian package so did it in his name :p02:41
KeybukKamion: it's an identical package :p  and you should've uploaded the ubuntu one as 0ubuntu1 /technically/02:41
KamionKeybuk: dude, can you imagine the grief I'd've got if I uploaded Canonical software as 0ubuntu1?02:41
danielsKamion: whoohoo!  (he says, having just uploaded xorg_6.8.2-1)02:42
torkelKeybuk: autocompletion in xchat? :-)02:42
Keybuktorkel: I guess02:42
KeybukKamion: yeah :)02:42
Treenaksdaniels: to sid? :P02:42
danielsKamion: oh and btw, it's Canonical Ltd, not Canonical Software ;)02:42
Kamiondaniels: screw you hippy :)02:42
Keybukbob2 got to be maintainer because he wasn't around to ask02:42
Micksawoo, hoary knows how to handle the grub config for a separate /boot02:42
Keybuk(and thus say no)02:42
danielsTreenaks: nope, I don't have a key in the keyring these days02:42
Keybukdaniels: That's Canonical, spelt F. I. E. L. D. W. A. V. E.02:42
daniels(need to find a friendly local DD to sponsor me)02:42
danielsKeybuk: no, I work for Canonical02:43
bob2Keybuk: only for your UK hacks02:43
MicksaKeybuk: 123NOTIT02:43
bob2the rest of us work for a real company02:43
Keybukwe work for the same company as Mark and Jane :p02:43
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Kamionwoot, that's NFS support in kickseed, I think02:44
Kamionwell, half of it. and missing the minor detail of kernel udeb support just yet, but ...02:44
KeybukKamion: details, details *mere* details02:45
Micksa*sigh* if only KVM switches weren't evil02:48
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zulKamion: ill bug t-bone about the nfs udeb wehn he is on02:51
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lamontbob2: nroff formatting, I expect - they all have overstrikes in them02:54
zulhey lamont i didnt think you would be up02:54
lamontmorning email strafing run02:54
lamontthen I disappear for an hour02:55
lamontspeaking of which...02:55
lamontanything before I run away?02:55
zulnah we just have to bug t-bone today02:55
Kamionlamont: nroff> GROFF_NO_SGR=1 and a pipe to col -b might be a plan, if you want just plain text02:56
lamontKamion: I'm just delivering upstreams files.  He's the one formatting them... :-)02:57
bob2lamont: ah02:57
lamontbeen that way forever02:57
=== luis_ is now known as lu|away
lamontspeaking of disappearing... bbiab03:02
zulsame here03:02
tsengwoo i think my kernel package is finally building03:03
tsengfell asleep last night staring at it applying and reverting patches a few dozen times03:03
tsengzul: your enable-inotify will need updating. havent looked at it yet03:06
zulok ill look at it this afternoon when i get back03:07
tsengfs/read_write.c: In function `vfs_read':03:07
tsengfs/read_write.c:234: error: `inode' undeclared (first use in this function)03:07
tsenghuh wow03:07
zultseng: yeah thats what i got03:07
Micksaxorg can't seem to use my mouse through the KVM :(03:07
zultseng: i have to go shovel :(03:09
truluxmy upgrade is broken (03:13
tsenginotify.c defines03:14
tseng+       struct inode            *inode; /* associated inode */03:15
seb128lamont: here ?03:15
Mithrandirseb128: 15:02 < lamont> speaking of disappearing... bbiab03:16
truluxtseng: that smells something from fs kernel code :)03:16
seb128Mithrandir: thanks03:16
tsengtrulux: its inotify. it wont build atm03:16
truluxlemme check03:16
truluxvfs_read... just an advice, since 7 weeks ago, many API has changed03:17
truluxamong the networking structures03:17
truluxand such03:17
truluxcontact upstream03:17
Keybuktseng: that's got to be an entrant for the "most useless comment" award03:17
tsengheh yeah..03:18
truluxit seems to be that inode structure is not initialized (or might be used not initialized, passed as argument to function)03:18
Keybuki++;  /* increment i *.03:18
Keybuk...no, really?03:18
tsengwhat I dont see yet in the patch is read_write.c referencing inode03:18
Kamioner gcc is saying "undeclared", dude, not "uninitialized"03:18
tsengguess I need to dig up the full file03:18
Keybukprobably a , instead of a .03:18
Keybukptr,inode not ptr.inode03:19
truluxKamion: yes, but some structures need to be used as simple argument-passed pointers &03:19
tsengoh, ill look for that03:19
tseng(my C isnt that amazing)03:19
truluxKeybuk: anyways, without having the thingy here I can't check further03:19
truluxKeybuk: undeclared is definitily that *node is missing either in args or initialized within the function03:20
tsengactually, read_write.c declares inode locally03:20
truluxtseng: what context?03:20
tsenghm but wrong function03:20
=== trulux nees to drink, he has walked for hour and a half
Kamionagain, please don't say "initialized" when you mean "declared"03:20
Kamionthey are DIFFERENT THINGS03:21
truluxsure, I think I have worked a bit with the fs api, among JFFS3 which I'm working for xattr support ;P03:21
truluxand noter the either, n03:22
tsengvfs_{read,write} call fsnotify_modify(dentry, inode, dentry->d_name.name);03:23
truluxpitti: there?03:23
tsengwhich does look inotify-related03:23
truluxtseng: btw, this is the last error:03:24
truluxdpkg: error al procesar /var/cache/apt/archives/mozilla-firefox_1.0+dfsg.1-6ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):03:24
trulux intentando sobreescribir `/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/defaults/profile', que est tambin en el paquete mozilla-firefox-locale-es03:24
pittitrulux: yes03:24
truluxpitti: we have worked on the gcc-3.4-ssp, but it won't compile (yet)  and we are lacking of testing machines again03:25
smurfixdaniels: mail with the keymap translation table sent to you03:25
danielssmurfix: cool, thanks03:25
=== mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
tsenghm this must already be fixed in our kernel package somewhere03:31
tsenga diff between .18-16 and .19-2 yields only03:31
truluxfixed upgrade03:33
truluxthis is going fast now :)03:33
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pittiseb128: indeed I found the same patch as in upstream cvs for gnome-cups-manager03:38
pittiseb128: however, there is even another bug, it crashes with a SIGPIPE when I use cups browsing03:38
seb128pitti: ups, forgotten to try that yesterday03:38
pittiseb128: I'm debugging this ATM03:38
pittiseb128: I just did03:38
pittiseb128: this thing tries to use an existing http connection, but when you restart cups, you get a SIGPIPE03:39
Kamionlamont,elmo_: any idea why I haven't been getting daily d-i builds on powerpc for a while?03:40
seb128gcm uses an http connection ?03:40
lu|awayseb128: yes03:40
lu|awayyou'd want to ask jody03:40
pittiseb128: do you know of any glib wrapper around signal(2)?03:41
sivangpitti: what does it use the http connection for?03:41
pittiseb128: currently I cheat this away with "signal (13, SIG_IGN)"03:41
pittiseb128: but this is not a portable solution for upstream03:41
pittiseb128: libgnomecups uses libcups, which provides a C API to cups03:41
pittiseb128: but all communication with cups always happens through http03:42
pittiseb128: it basically uses http://localhost:63103:42
pittiseb128: that's the very reason why we cannot disable the web interface :-)03:42
seb128but the interface doesn't work IIRC03:45
pittiseb128: we only disabled the administrative functions with http authentication03:45
seb128oh right03:45
pittiseb128: the unauthorized functions work well03:45
pittiand have to, because it is CUPS' only interface03:45
seb128pitti: for network stuff you can look on g_io_channel_*03:46
seb128oh, you are looking for signals handler, not network stuff03:47
seb128hum, dunno03:48
Mithrandirthom: is there some way to turn off "web pages can set hotkeys" in m-f?03:52
thomMithrandir: no clue03:53
Mithrandirthom: it bites me each time I'm on the wiki and press alt-d to go to the address field.03:54
MithrandirKeybuk: http://arch.err.no/index.cgi/tfheen@idi.ntnu.no--2005/libtool--multiarch--0--patch-1?cmd=cs_mod&file=libtool.m403:55
truluxwho maintains firefox packages?03:59
Mithrandirtrulux: thom04:00
thomit's a lie!04:00
truluxMithrandir: ok, danke sehn04:00
truluxthom: hah, I'm having trouble with them :)04:00
thomtrulux: itanium?04:01
truluxthom: nop, just a simple x8604:01
thomok, what's the problem?04:01
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truluxthom: Updating mozilla-firefox chrome registry...E: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/extensions/installed-extensions.txt still present. Registration might have gone wrong.04:03
truluxmv: cannot stat `/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/defaults.ini': No such file or directory04:03
truluxdpkg: error processing mozilla-firefox-locale-es (--remove):04:03
trulux subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 104:03
truluxRemoving mozilla-firefox-locale-es-es ...04:03
truluxUpdating mozilla-firefox chrome registry...E: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/extensions/installed-extensions.txt still present. Registration might have gone wrong.04:03
truluxmv: cannot stat `/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/defaults.ini': No such file or directory04:03
truluxdpkg: error processing mozilla-firefox-locale-es-es (--remove):04:03
trulux subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 104:03
truluxErrors were encountered while processing:04:03
trulux mozilla-firefox-locale-es04:03
trulux mozilla-firefox-locale-es-es04:03
=== trulux overlapped windows while trying to paste at rafvb
thomthere's nothing higher up?04:04
truluxI think these packages are unofficial ones that I installed first boot after warty was installed04:07
truluxI don't think so04:08
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thomtrulux: um, you lose then; i've enough to do without supporting unofficial broken packages04:08
truluxthom: err, one moment04:09
truluxI'm not sure if these are unofficial04:09
truluxjust lemme check04:09
truluxthom: Version: 0.9.3-1ubuntu104:10
Kamionmvo: #6865 seems to be fixed now; anything more before closing it?04:12
=== mvo looks
thomtrulux: official, but not something that shipped with warty04:12
mvoKamion: no, think it's fine. I'll close it now04:12
Kamionok, cool04:12
Kamionit works for me anyhow04:12
truluxthom: err, fixed04:13
truluxthom: just that my teddy bear was not around :)04:13
mvoKamion: the current apt contains a patch that scores pathes without symlinks on a cdrom high. that means that it will add "deb cdrom:[]  hoary main" to the sources.list. it will also do this with debian cds (deb cdrom:[]  sarge main). could this be a problem for debian (and it's d-i)?04:15
pittiseb128: I think I've found a workaround04:15
pittiseb128: gnome #16888104:15
Kamionmvo: you'd have to ask joeyh, I can never remember exactly what assumptions are made; it might be a problem04:18
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jdubthom: you're using firefox now?04:21
thomjdub: yeah04:21
HcEwhen compiling a kernel with initrd, should I have cramfs as a module or built-in?04:23
HcEwhops, wrong #04:23
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mvoKamion: I send a mail to joeyh describing the changes and asking for his opinion04:36
dokoelmo: please could you import drdsl from unstable/non-free ?04:41
jdubthom: http://christopher.aillon.org/blog/dev/mozilla/20050228-pango.html04:42
zuljdub: tseng and i did a diff of inotify 0.18 and inotify 0.19 and we are going to see what it does04:43
thomjdub: ...04:44
thomwe enabled it by default ages ago04:44
tsengjdub: if you want a full error message to pass to rml I can dig it out again04:45
tsengits starting to look quite odd considering the .19 patch is a one line change from ours04:46
=== Mithrandir kicks libtool
KeybukMithrandir: *shrug*  you're the maintainer :p04:47
MithrandirKeybuk: I'm not04:48
Keybukare too, I just uploaded changing tha Maintainer field *cackle*04:48
MithrandirKeybuk: I adopted pkg-config, that's a _nice_ thing in comparison04:48
Keybuk(* note: possible lie)04:48
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Mithrandiryou're too kind for that04:49
Mithrandir(and no, that was not a challenge)04:49
KeybukI'm _so_ not04:49
KeybukI am seriously considering RFAing it though04:50
Kamionmvo: ok04:50
jdubthom: mmm, i thought you said you were going to disable it, as it was the source of our font rendering problems04:52
jdubzul, tseng: thanks04:52
MithrandirKeybuk: releasing pkg-config is just make dist and put the tarball somewhere sensible?04:52
KeybukMithrandir: no idea, never did it :p04:53
Keybukask daniels04:53
thomjdub: no, i fixed the rendering problems04:53
Mithrandirdaniels: ^^^04:53
thomor, caillon did and i stole it04:53
jdubthom: i still have bollocky font foo in textareas04:53
thomjdub: even seb is happy04:53
Mithrandiroh, multiarch will be soooo much fun.04:54
torkeldaniels: re #4343, it finnaly works. Thanks!04:55
pittiogra: Hey, how are you04:59
ogranearly ready with the fixes ;)04:59
ograpitti: do you think its ok to have hal-dmiwrapper in /usr/bin ? or should it be in /usr/sbin in any case, since its a suid executable....05:00
pittiogra: I'd rather have it in /usr/lib/hal05:00
=== Mithrandir kicks Keybuk too.
Mithrandir-e 's:^\(sys_lib_search_path_spec\)=.*:\1="/lib/ /usr/lib/ /usr/X11R6/lib/ /usr/local/lib05:01
Mithrandirthat's evil.05:01
pittiogra: because normal users aren't supposed to execute it05:01
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pittiogra: remember, every program in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin/ requires a manpage05:01
ograah, ok.....05:01
KeybukMithrandir: there's more evil things in debian/rules than that05:01
MithrandirKeybuk: dude, I've tried to work out why my change didn't propagate to the package. :P05:02
KeybukMithrandir: libtool uses gcc -print-search-dirs to seed that05:03
Keybukand it means you get totally the wrong things in there05:03
Keybuklike no X11R605:03
Keybukand gcc-specific version information05:03
Keybukso I just hard-code it on Debian, where the search path is known and well-documented :p05:03
MithrandirKeybuk: I know, I know, but still.05:03
Keybukit only affects /usr/bin/libtool05:04
Keybuknot source packages made on Debian05:04
Mithrandirit seems it creeps in; at least just changing the libtool.m4 wasn't enough.05:05
Keybukhow did you change libtool.m4?05:05
Keybukremembering that on Debian's libtool, sys_lib_dlsearch_path_spec is built by parsing ld.so.conf05:05
Mithrandiryes, and I append evilness to that05:06
Mithrandirhttp://arch.err.no/index.cgi/tfheen@idi.ntnu.no--2005/libtool--multiarch--0--patch-1?cmd=cs_mod&file=libtool.m4 is the patch05:06
Keybukmmm, patchy05:07
Mithrandir(it's wrong, but it's not totally wrong :)05:07
lamontKamion: ENOROSS05:08
rburtoni'm a ross! use me!05:09
Kamionlamont: long-term?05:09
lamontgah.  ELAMONTBRAINDEAD05:10
lamontKamion: ross is alive, but disabled.  I need to double check with elmo and make sure he's really done with it, then I can turn things back on (and do a d-i build for you)05:12
sabdflyou guys are nuts. fortunately our partners don't mind.05:12
Kamionlamont: ok, cool; of course new upload coming today anyway ...05:14
lamontof course05:14
Kamionlamont: but I'll need the daily d-i build tomorrow to pick up the new kernel upload, probably05:14
Kamionwell, failing that I can always do an upload ...05:15
lamontgiven that ross has been up for 3 days, I think elmo might be done with it... :-)05:15
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lamontnah - worst case I'll  move it to another machine05:15
lamontbut I think we're golden05:15
thomdholbach: nice report!05:16
lamontah, that's what happened05:17
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ograpitti: how do i convince automake that hal-dmiwrapper actually gets installed in /usr/lib/hal ? i cant manage it to go anywhere else then /usr/bin :(05:19
lamontelmo_: you around?05:19
dholbachthom: thanks!05:19
dholbachthom: felt it was time for it05:19
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pittiogra: dunno, sorry05:22
pittiogra: if anything helps, don't install it in the Makefile.am at all05:23
pittiogra: and instead install it in debian/hal.install05:23
ograi did05:23
ograbut it still must get build from the Makefile..... obvoiusly i use the wrong variables, since it gets installed with lshal and friends.... :(05:24
mvoogra: you could use (in Makefile.am): helperdir=$(libdir)/hal \n helper_SCRIPTS=hal-dmiwrapper05:24
lamontKamion: new daily running, just to grease the skids, so to speak05:24
ogramvo: wow, thanks :)05:25
mvoogra: see if it works first ;)05:25
ograheh, trying....05:25
=== ogra thinks this is so typical....fixing the patch takes 2hrs ..... finding the right automake vars then takes the whole day....grr
lamontogra: you forgot to sacrifice the chicken05:27
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Keybuklamont: that's scsi05:27
Keybukit's goats for autotools05:27
ograahh, thats the prob.....05:27
Kamionlamont: ta05:27
=== ogra goes to the farmer next door....
Keybukthe autotools book even clearly shows a goat about to be sacrificed on the cover05:28
=== lamont is reminded just how sick some of his cow-orkers are. (self included)
zulwhat the plague?05:28
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lamontbazaar finally made it out of NEW on debian05:28
paulhi, possibly a dumb question (i couldnt find anything on the website), but are there any plans for an AXP port?05:29
Keybuklamont: it wasn't in NEW for long05:29
KeybukI only uploaded it just over a week ago05:29
lamontah, ok.05:29
lamontsomeone told me they'd uploaded it a while ago...  must be they were doing the upload by proxy or fantasy, eh?05:30
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Keybukthey lied, I expect05:31
Keybukbob2 was supposed to it eons ago05:31
Keybuklifeless tempted me with gin, and I did it in London05:31
Keybuk(in bob2's name, of course; I don't want _bugs_)05:31
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eruinanyone here tracking junkie ?05:32
tsengman is binding keys to commands in metacity ever a pain05:33
pauli guess not so.05:33
dholbachKamion, lamont: you fixed all the  -lX -universe bugs? or shall i give them another try?05:33
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Kamiondholbach: I'm certain that my qt-x11-free change didn't get them all, but I don't know if lamont has done the give-back yet05:34
lamontdholbach: I didn't fix any of them with my mail last night...  Just sent mail to let people know of the wonderful opportunity05:34
Kamiondholbach: imms at least needs -L/usr/X11R6/lib added to linker flags somewhere05:34
Kamionand there may be others05:34
=== ogra just found out that a libexec-PROGRAM is not a bin-PROGRAM heh.... how silly...
Keybukgconftool --set --type=string apps/metacity/keybinding_commands/command_N "commmand args..."05:35
dholbachKamion, lamont: I'll put them on   wiki/MOTUTodo05:35
Kamionlike I say, I only bothered looking 'cos I want libqt-perl in main at some point. :)05:35
Keybukgconftool --set --type=string apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_N "F99"05:35
dholbachKamion, lamont: or   wiki/UniverseMissingXinerama   even05:35
lamontever hear a cat walk down a piano keyboard?05:36
Kamiondholbach: make it more general: UniverseXorgBuildProblems or something05:36
dredgpaul: nobody cares about your crazy notions :)05:36
dholbachKamion: i like many small lists :-)05:36
dholbachKamion: but will do05:36
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pauldredg: oh you get to annoy me on two channels now... dredg in stereo ;)05:39
pauli'd donate cycles to a ubuntu alpha port, but i fear qemu/alpha on a modern machine would be faster than my 21164A/433MHz..05:40
tsengi dunno about that, qemu is pretty slow05:40
paul(if qemu had an alpha target)05:41
paultseng: nah, it's pretty quick.05:41
tsengi tried running a livecd in it with gnome, it was dog slow05:41
paulleast x86 target hosted on x86-64..05:41
HiddenWolftseng: livecd's are always slow, imho05:41
luis_unless you are on a fast drive,you aren't going to get decent performance on any liveCD05:42
=== lamont curses apt, fixes trusted.gpg yet again
thomhey mdz05:42
luis_though clearly gnome could use help in the # of disc hits, etc.05:42
HiddenWolfMy roommate has an old laptop. 133mhz, che thinks it's quite snappy. I just purchased a slab of ram that's worth more than that thing05:42
dholbachKamion, lamont: done05:42
paultseng: qemu is far far faster than, eg, bochs.05:42
tsengso rc5-mm1 has:05:43
paulits quite tolerable.05:43
tsenglets look at that.05:43
HiddenWolfluis_: Yeah. Gnome is slow where winxp was quite snappy, all due to and old hdd05:44
tsenghm I believe that is the same or similar change in .1905:44
HiddenWolftseng: tell me you didn't type out that url by hand.. 05:44
tsengno, I know how to paste05:44
=== HiddenWolf relaxes
tsenggo to his announce and then go up a dir, then back down into broken-out05:45
tsengnot too hard :P05:45
tsengill diff his inotify with ours as well05:45
tsengbut I think its .18-X05:45
tsenghm hardly05:46
=== HiddenWolf would like to see an app to monitor disc health
tsengbut diffs possibly between -mm and vanilla patches05:46
tsengHiddenWolf: smartd or smartmon or so05:46
HiddenWolftseng: will any of those tell me "your disc is going to fail soon" in time?05:47
luis_HiddenWolf: yeah, XP has done a lot of work to minimize disc hits05:47
tsengthats their aim, but its not a foolproof magic bullet05:47
=== HiddenWolf wonders why the timestap on the .flac files he just ripped is jan 1st 1970
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thomhuh. why does bugzilla change me about dependency changes for a closed bug?05:50
=== trulux [~lorenzo@67.Red-80-25-56.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== thom closes another 5 bugs and whistles
=== HiddenWolf thinks thom should make sure he saves some for the rest of us
thomHiddenWolf: you're welcome to the other 90 i have assigned to me05:54
truluxlanguage-pack-es seems broken :(05:54
=== HiddenWolf can't program his way out of a wet paper bag, but likes to hang out
zulHiddenWolf: your welcome to 145 to the kernel team05:54
=== HiddenWolf pionts to his previous statement.
=== mpt_newjersey [~mpt@eetemad.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lamont wanders off for a little bit
thomHiddenWolf: please don't message me stuff; but "my" packages include firefox, the laptop support stuff; apache2/php/mod_python etc and whatever else i get assigned06:02
HiddenWolfthom: fix that silly missing icon in firefox. :)06:04
thomHiddenWolf: every time you mention it, i'm ignoring firefox for an extra day :P06:05
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=== HiddenWolf starts porting IE to gnome ;)
=== zul smacks HiddenWolf
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=== HiddenWolf hugs zul
zulhey jbailey 06:07
=== dholbach searches the big red button for the trapdoor beneath HiddenWolf
jbaileyHeya Chuck.06:08
zulhow is it going?06:08
jbaileyzul: w00t the power outages.  Have any up your way?06:08
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zuljbailey: nope...have you guys called the army yet? :)06:08
jbaileyNah.  mayor mel retired.06:09
zuloh yes..what an ass06:09
jbaileyThe new one can read weather forecasts. =)06:09
jbaileyHe was jus ton his way out when I moved here, but really.  That whole thing was the only thing I ever heard about him out west.06:10
zulor when he went to kenya and made some racist comment06:10
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jbaileyYeah, that was afterI moved here.06:10
HiddenWolfdholbach: I'll behave myself06:10
dholbachHiddenWolf: you're lucky... didnt find the button :-)06:11
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sabdfldoko: what's with the -dfsg in the python2.4 packages?06:27
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mirakhow does ubuntu update manager detects if there is new updates ?06:29
mirakis there a cron task or something ?06:29
dholbachmirak: yes06:29
mirakhum, I can't see it i the list06:30
ograpitti: you got mail :)06:30
dokosabdfl: that's the upstream package with the python-profiler files removed. they have a non-free license.06:31
sabdflnon-free how?06:31
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sabdfldfsg is not a constraint on us06:32
dokoyou are not allowed to re-use the code in a non-python context.06:32
ogradoko: there is always multiverse....06:32
dokosee http://python.org/doc/2.4/lib/node829.html06:33
Kamionogra: python2.4-profiler | 2.4-3ubuntu1 | hoary/multiverse | all06:33
dokoit's addressed upstream, but maybe gets difficult to have the license changed.06:33
sabdflwhy on earth would guido want to retain that06:34
sabdfldo you know if anyone has contact infoseek to get them to release the code under a more generally free licence?06:34
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dokoyes, working on it, the answer from the author already is at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-February/051549.html06:36
=== mirak [~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-9-225.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdfldoko: thanks for the clarification06:38
Kamionmirak: /etc/cron.daily/apt06:39
dokomdz, jdub: need to get libcairo1-dev from universe to support to build gcc-4.0. ok to change the seed?06:41
mirakKamion: thanks06:43
JanCthe author has no problem with releasing the python profiler, it's just that nobody knows who owns the code now IIRC?06:43
mdzdoko: you don't need to seed build-deps explicitly; germinate walks the tree06:43
mdzat this point, since the Java stuff has not materialized, I'm not sure that we should be shipping gcc-4.0 in main at all06:44
mdzthat was its only purpose06:44
dokowell, yes, still hoping that jbailey will get eclipse in, and then the python plugin.06:46
wasabino chance06:46
wasabiwait whens the deadline?06:47
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Evasohi pitti06:47
dokohi wasabi!06:47
wasabiwhen would eclipse have to be in by?06:47
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Evasopitti: i had send a mail to Devid Zeuthen the hal developer to find a common solution about pktcdvd06:48
dokowasabi: tonight, I'm unsure if it can/should go in after the preview release06:49
wasabioh, no chance.06:49
wasabijava in ubuntu is so far from completion it's not funny. =)06:49
JanCwhat's the best way to get a new translation in ubuntu when it's available in CVS upstream (as a .po file)?06:50
JanCbugzilla, rosetta, ... ?06:50
Evasoguys what about encrypted home directory in ubuntu with libpam-mount, are officially supported?06:50
=== T-None is now known as T-Bone
ogradoko, wasabi: its universe....if you take responsibility for the packages and think that four weeks are enough for bugfixing i think we still could get it in after preview.... (but only if you feel really safe with that)06:51
wasabii don't.06:51
T-BoneMithrandir: ping?06:51
wasabiI do think however having gcj in might be nice.06:52
wasabiEven without Eclipse, it is a useful development tool.06:52
wasabiIt would be the only way to run java programs in main for free.06:52
ograat least it will ease getting eclipse in....06:52
wasabidepends what drives inclusion: end user applications or development tools.06:53
ogra...but as i said, someone has to take responsibility (there are no updates after release)06:53
wasabigcj isn't my choice to make. =)06:53
wasabii can only say that eclipse will not make it06:54
mdzdoko: eclipse is not going to happen06:57
HiddenWolfmdz: you just broke someone's heart06:58
wasabidude. if you don't like it, get working. ;)06:58
mdz(for Hoary)06:58
wasabieclipse packages are done, and have been done for months. But they have a massive dependency tree which isn't.06:59
mdzI have followed the frenetic pace of your wiki updates :-)06:59
T-BoneKamion: ping?07:00
wasabii hacked that thing together last night because I kept forgetting what package i was working on . =(07:00
KamionT-Bone: pong07:00
T-BoneKamion: all bits needed for the kernel are in the baz archive i suppose? Anything I should be aware of before preparing the package?07:00
KamionT-Bone: you mean just my kernel change?07:01
Kamionthe nfs-modules thing?07:01
T-BoneKamion: yeah, whatever should go in the linux-image package07:01
T-Bonefor which you sent mail ;)07:02
KamionT-Bone: 'baz merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/kernel-debian--nfs-modules--2.6.10' should get you everything07:02
KamionT-Bone: it increments the kernel-wedge dependency, but nothing else special; not a large change07:02
T-BoneKamion: ok07:03
truluxwho handles language-pack-es?07:04
Kamiontrulux: pitti handles language-pack-*07:05
truluxKaloz: ok07:05
truluxKamion :)07:06
seb128_lamont: here ?07:06
truluxKamion: mine is broken or seems to:07:07
janiI need advice on cross toolchain packaging,anybody?07:07
truluxE: Couldn't configure pre-depend language-pack-es for language-pack-es-update, probably a dependency cycle.07:08
zulseb128: he wondered out i think07:09
seb128elmo_: here ?07:09
MithrandirT-Bone: pong07:12
T-BoneMithrandir: still willing to have access to ia64? :)07:12
Mithrandiryes, please.07:12
T-BoneMithrandir: mail me a login and a ssh v2 key at varenet@debian.org please (gpg-signed message)07:13
Mithrandirwill do07:13
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jbaileywasabi: Because of a power outage and stuff this morning, I'm not caught up, but I'm hoping to look more on why gij isn't building today.  I just have some other stuff to nail first.07:17
MithrandirT-Bone: sent07:18
elmo_seb128: ?07:19
seb128elmo_: have you sync glib 2.6.3 yesterday ?07:19
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T-BoneMithrandir: got it. Give me five minutes07:20
elmo_seb128: no, sorry, I didn't see you ask for it07:21
seb128k, could you do it now ? :)07:21
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elmo_[NOT Updating - Modified]  glib2.0_2.6.2-0ubuntu1 (vs 2.6.3-1)07:22
seb128and are you around for an hour or so ? I need to upgrade a new libwnck with a soname change and to get out of NEW quick to not break gnome-panel and a bunch of other desktop stuff07:22
elmo_ok to override?07:22
elmo_seb128: yeah, I'll be around the rest of the evening07:22
seb128k, thanks07:22
sivangeh, a new gnome07:23
Kamionoh, hm, I should seed nfs-modules in advance07:23
=== Treenaks LOLs at Mako's www.unhappybirthday.com
elmo_I assume the "prompts me for a keyboard layout on upgrade" thing is fairly universal?07:25
elmo_s/"/"X /07:25
mdzdoesn't sound familiar07:25
seb128elmo_: do you have the power to kick eel2's build or do we need lamont for that ?07:25
elmo_mdz: ah - well it prompted me on both i386 and ppc - to add insult to injury it prompted me twice on ppc07:26
elmo_I'll file a bug...07:26
lamontseb128: kicking07:26
seb128thanks lamont 07:26
seb128please kick all the builds having issues with libhowl.la07:26
seb128I've kicked the depends out of libgnomevfs2 07:27
seb128but a bunch of .la list it07:27
MithrandirT-Bone: no hurry; I have plenty other stuff to fix before preview. :)07:27
T-BoneMithrandir: heh ok...07:27
elmo_[oh twice too on i386; it was just slower to upgrade] 07:27
makoTreenaks: that just put on boingboing.net.. it's doing TONS of traffic right now :)07:28
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Treenaksmako: cool :)07:28
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sm-testsnice site07:29
dokokamion: when adding the plone-site to the supported list, then running germinate, I don't see all dependencies from zope-cmfplone. I'm missing something ...07:30
Kamiondoko: if they're not yet in main, you need to use -c main,restricted,universe,multiverse07:30
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dokoKamion: ok, thanks07:33
wasabijbailey, that's cool. Did you get my wiki page?07:37
jbaileywasabi: Which one?07:38
jbaileywasabi: Nope, this is a different one than you gave me yesterday.  Let me subscribe to it too.07:41
wasabiYeah i whipped it up quickly07:41
Nafallomako: is it time to register for hoarycds yet?07:42
Kamionwhat's with all the ia64 given-back build logs at the moment?07:43
=== mpt_newjersey [~mpt@dynamic-oit-fuzzynet-c-4.Princeton.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionpitti: it would be useful if your baz mirror on people.u.c/~pitti/arch/ had .listing files (i.e. baz make-archive -l)07:50
Kamionpitti: oh, sorry, forget it, I'm just wrong07:50
jbaileymdz: ping re: 520407:51
makoNafallo: not yet.. we're going to try to coordinate with the preview release07:51
Nafallomako: oki :-)07:52
elmo_Kamion/smurfix: console-keymaps-tree wants to be demoted - ok?07:53
Kamionit does? looking07:53
Kamionelmo_: oh, NAK - it needs to be explicitly seeded because it's in debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/, doing now07:55
Kamionseeds fixed07:56
Kamionpitti: strange that this pre-depends stuff in current langpacks isn't reflected in the langpack-o-matic archive07:58
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tsenghey beagle works w/o inotify now08:04
tsengthink it still needs a newer dbus still08:05
tsengso we cant do it for hoary08:05
tsengdbus 0.23.208:05
truluxlanguage-pack-* broken08:06
crimsunjdub mentioned that it might be worth looking into syncing/merging 0.23.2 from sid08:06
tsengit might be. or it might break all apps built against dbus08:07
tsengi might try it here, im a brave sort of guy08:07
Kamiontrulux: we know, you've mentioned it a couple of times and filed a bug, which I've assigned to pitti08:07
truluxKamion: heh, desperado!08:08
zultseng: still building08:09
tsenggood deal08:10
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=== lamont works through a slow and torturous give-back process for amd64 and gnome
elmo_lamont: slower than your usual "GIVE BACK THE WORLD"? :p08:12
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thullyhi - is array 6 still on track?  I just installed an array 5 CD and I'm going to rsync and re-install (to test some things in the installer, as well as some other things) when array 6 comes08:14
mdzamu: ping08:14
lamontelmo_: actually, I was going to do it one package at a time, then said 'hell, life is short' and gave back all 1308:14
mdzthully: array 6 is scheduled for tomorrow08:14
amumdz: pong08:14
mdzamu: when did kdelibs start using fam?08:14
lamontelmo_: the trick to mass-givebacks is to make sure that nothing is building or in transition08:14
thullyoh - I thought it was today08:14
mdzamu: we don't want that in main, or in kubuntu-desktop08:14
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mdzamu: can it be switched to gamin?08:15
amumdz: ages .... i think ganim was the fam replacement 08:15
amumdz: sure, that no problem08:15
Kamionthully: releases are always scheduled for Wednesday at the moment (whether they happen then or not :-))08:16
thullyOK - I thought I saw somewhere that array 6 was today08:17
seb128if you want a broken desktop on array 6 do that :p08:18
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seb128wednesday is nice :)08:18
thullybtw - does an ubuntu install done from an array 5 CD automatically use polypaudio?08:19
jon1012hi everybody08:19
Kamionthully: yes, polypaudio was in desktop in array 5, although pretty new then IIRC08:20
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mdzpolypaudio is about as broken today as it was on array 5, iirc08:28
jon1012yes, polypaudio have problems...08:29
Kamionmdz: I checked the l-p-en/l-p-en-update dependency loop out on archive.ubuntu.com, and it exists08:29
Kamionnew in the 20050301 update, I think08:30
MithrandirKamion: any ideas how utf8migrationtool should handle the case where the current locale is C?08:45
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lunitikKeybuk: says you uploaded choose-mirror, but I don't see it, any idea why?  (just update'd like 2 mins ago)08:48
=== mjg59 fixes the FUCKING RADEON THING
elmomjg59: btw -24 sleep works for me, thanks08:50
zulhey mjg59 08:50
mjg59elmo: To disk, or to RAM?08:51
mjg59zul: Hi08:51
elmomjg59: to RAM08:52
elmoI've never tried disk before, at all08:52
mvoMithrandir: maybe just a little dialog with a message like: "get a serious locale dude"?08:52
Mithrandirheh :)08:53
mjg59elmo: Excellent08:53
mdzMithrandir: cry();08:53
KamionMithrandir: C's compatible with UTF-8, so just ignore it IMHO?08:54
Kamionlunitik: /me != Keybuk.08:54
MithrandirKamion: so with C I can just close my eyes and don't care?08:55
Kamionlunitik: and choose-mirror is a udeb so it's not something you can install on your normal system anyway08:55
KeybukKamion: heh, I just assumed it was a merge-o-matic result :p08:55
KamionMithrandir: I think you have to :)08:55
MithrandirKamion: why does d-i have a C.UTF8 locale then?08:55
KamionMithrandir: I mean compatible in the "subset of" sense08:56
KamionUTF-8 strings aren't valid in C, but anything that's valid in C is also valid in UTF-808:56
Mithrandirtrue, but I want to migrate a person using C to a UTF8 locale08:57
Mithrandirwhat locale should they end up with?08:57
Kamionand if they've deliberately set LANG=C they probably don't want you to migrate them08:57
Mithrandirthey're running the utf8migrationtool -- they want to be migrated. :)08:57
Kamionoh, god knows, you have to ask08:57
Kamionit could easily be en_<something>.UTF-8, but the currency and date handling are different in those08:58
KeybukKamion: you better not be trying to defend C.UTF-8 again you SICK MAN :p08:59
KamionKeybuk: I'm not :)09:00
mdzamu: please don't remove kubuntu-desktop from the kubuntu desktop seed; that's how it gets into main09:01
ogralamont: does "done" mean nothing is left ? 09:01
lamontogra: means I gave everything back09:01
ogralamont: ah, ok09:01
lamont75 packages spread across 4 architectures09:01
amumdz: all right09:02
mdzI've added it back09:02
amuI didnt changed something? 09:02
Kamionmdz: a while ago I suggested to amu that he take it out during the early heavy seed development so that he could see what was going on, since the presence of an old-and-busted kubuntu-desktop was confusing things09:03
Kamionbut I didn't intend for it to be left out permanently09:03
mdzah, ok09:03
mdzI fixed kubuntu-meta recently09:04
T-Bonemdz: you're expected on #u-meeting...09:04
=== lunitik wonders if it would be out of the question to have ClearlooksHuman as default theme rather than indubstrial?
=== Nafallo accidently mixed hot laptop with cold jolt *
amumdz: it disappeared? as i remember you added it yesterday?  09:05
Mithrandirlunitik: I would be interested; have you made it and have a screenshot?09:05
Kamionlunitik: it would appear to be under discussion for GNOME 2.12, so it would be a possibility for hoary+109:06
lunitikMithrandir: I've made it... but not during this install... I could real fast though if it would help convince?  :)09:06
Mithrandirlunitik: I guess not default, but universe at least?09:06
lunitikKamion: yes... RH devels (namely Havoc) seem to be pushing for it... and pushing out Industrial apparently09:07
lunitikMithrandir: would make life easier if it were packages, yes  :)09:07
Kamionlunitik: as I understand from Ross Burton's blog, it isn't final yet, though some news sites are reporting it as if it were09:08
tsengjdub made a package already09:08
tsengits in NEW09:08
tsengand ross's blog would be correct if it says so09:08
lunitiktseng: oh, cool... wasn't there when I decided to try it  :(09:08
lunitikI think my09:12
lunitikmessage can be legitimately read as "we're doing Clearlooks as the09:12
lunitikdefault for 2.12 for sure"09:12
lunitikgah... Konversation pasting sucks... sorry09:12
elmotseng: nothing's in NEW - what package do you think is?09:12
tsengyou dont need to paste anything, people intersted in it can read the posting09:12
tsengelmo: jdub said he recently uploaded gtk2-engines-clearlooks or so09:13
lunitiktseng: how long you think it would take to actually show up?09:13
lunitiktseng: cuz I just apt-cache search'd 'clearlooks' and get nothing  :(09:13
tsengwell if its not showing up in NEW, the its not going anywhere fast09:14
elmoit's not in NEW, can't even see it in REJECT09:15
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=== mako brings together mepis, debian, and ubuntu into a single news item: http://dotmepis.org/modules/news/
truluxpitti: ping09:23
pittitrulux: I'm here, but in a meeting09:23
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amumako: any news cases mepis offer also source to their gpl programs?09:24
truluxpitti: oh, ok09:24
truluxpitti: language-pack-es still not working as the other ones :(09:26
pittitrulux: odd, it worked for me, and Keybuk suggested the Pre-dependency to work around a dpkg bug09:27
pittitrulux: I'll look into it ASAP09:27
Keybukwhat's not working?09:28
KamionKeybuk: l-p-en depends: l-p-en-update, l-p-en-update pre-depends: l-p-en09:28
KamionKeybuk: BAD09:28
Keybukmeh; yeah, that won't work09:29
Kamionso l-p-en must be unpacked and configured (or previously configured) before l-p-en-update can be unpacked, but l-p-en-update must be configured before l-p-en can be configured09:29
Keybukl-p-en shouldn't depend l-p-en-update09:30
Kamionif this is the dpkg Replaces bug, I think it should be ignored :P09:30
Keybukat most, it's a recommends09:30
truluxpitti: ok, many thanks09:30
KamionKeybuk: (a) that requires installer changes, (b) that makes it harder for users surely?09:30
Keybukotherwise you have to ensure installer installs l-p-en first and l-p-en-update afterwards09:31
pittiKeybuk: before they just depended on each other, but that breaks due to the dpkg Replaces: bug09:31
pittiKeybuk: but normally folks should just install l-p-foo and be done with it09:31
Kamionwhat actually broke?09:31
makoamu: we had a conversation with mepis's publisher and author at linuxworld about this09:31
pittiKamion: #18463509:35
pittiKamion: this is exactly the use case for a base package and l-p-update packages which partially replace the base pkg09:36
amumako: means finally we get the source? At least a easy thing, they distribute under GPL, and it says if someone request the source, you've to give it to him.   09:36
pittiKamion: you cannot install update first, then the base package09:36
pittiKamion: that's why Keybuk suggested Pre-Depends: to force installation order09:36
KamionI'm inclined to say "so?" :)09:36
Kamionbut ok; I still think we should just fix dpkg rather than endlessly working around this bug09:37
Keybukyes, we should09:37
MithrandirKamion: sorry, I was away for a long phone call -- you think just popping up a selection of en_* locales is sensible if the current locale is C?09:37
pittiKeybuk: I thouhgt you said that this won't happen for Hoary/Sarge?09:37
Keybukpitti: it won't.09:37
KamionMithrandir: it seems sort of a reasonable approach, I think09:37
KeybukI do not have the time to fix both #164595 and #170825 before then09:38
pittiKamion: "so" -> it can break installations and upgrades if you don't manually force installation order09:38
MithrandirKamion: we could just do C.UTF8 and everybody should be happy though.. ;)09:38
=== Mithrandir hides
Kamionpitti: yeah, I know09:38
pitti"Hey elmo, I have to build all base packages again, kthxbye"09:39
pittiHe will _love_ me for that...09:39
pittiany idea for a working solution?09:39
KamionKeybuk: wow, #170825 is actually a really old bug isn't it? looks like it's related to the "dpkg doesn't check Depends: on downgrade" thing that's on iwj's ancient todo list for dpkg09:39
Kamionpitti: l-p-en-update depends l-p-en, l-p-en recommends l-p-en-update, and we make the installer install both?09:40
KeybukKamion: dpkg doesn't check Depends both on downgrade, and on installation of a different package09:40
Keybukfoo; Conflicts: bar09:40
Keybukinstall foo09:40
Keybuknow install bar09:40
Keybukdpkg will let you, because you're not installing foo at the same time09:40
Kamionpitti: I realise it makes it less easy to install just one package and get both, but we were planning on having an application to install language packs eventually anyway, and it looks like this scheme is doomed09:40
pittiKamion: I think we can work around this in the installer pretty easy, we can even force the order there09:40
pittiKamion: I'm more concerned about user installation09:41
pittiKamion: Hoary+1 will have a separate gui for this, though09:41
Kamionpitti: sure, I'm happy to make the installer install l-p-* and l-p-*-update in separate dpkg runs09:41
pittihmm, a Recommends: then?09:41
pittibut will this really work with the pre-dependency if you install both packages?09:41
pittihmm, it sould09:42
pittishould, even09:42
Keybukrecommends is a depends that doesn't affect order09:42
Kamiondoes it have to be a pre-dep?09:42
Kamionoh, I suppose you need a pre-dep in order to work around broken replaces technically09:43
pittiKamion: right, that was the reason09:43
pittimvo: if l-p-foo recommends l-p-foo-update, will synaptic default to install it, too?09:43
mvopitti: depends. it can do it if it is configured to do so (not by default right now, see #2171)09:46
pittihmm, ok09:46
pittiI guess there is no perfect solution then09:46
pittiKeybuk, Kamion: okay, I go with the Recommends: approach if there is consensus about it09:46
KamionI can't say I really like it, but I like all the other options less09:47
Kamiondunno about Keybuk09:47
pittiKamion: same for me :-)09:48
Keybukthe other option would be to name the packages differently09:48
Keybukso l-p-en-update becomes l-p-en09:48
Keybukand l-p-en becomes l-p-en-base09:48
Keybukor something, so users install the right one :p09:48
pittihow should that help?09:48
Keybuksocial rather than physical engineering09:48
Kamionthat seems reasonable09:48
Kamionalthough getting rid of l-p-*-update that people have already installed would be interesting09:50
Kamionwonder what a dist-upgrade would pick out of A conflicts,provides,replaces B and B pre-depends,replaces A  :)09:50
pittiSo l-p-en would Replace and Provide l-p-en-update09:50
pittibut what about the l-p-en-base?09:51
KamionI think it would have to Conflict too09:51
pittiit can't provide and replace l-p-en09:51
pittiwhat a mess...09:51
Kamiondoesn't need to09:51
pittiversioned conflicts, probably09:51
Kamionl-p-en C,R,P l-p-en-update, l-p-en Pre-Depends,Replaces l-p-en-base, l-p-en-base Recommends l-p-en and Replaces old versions of l-p-en09:52
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pittiKamion: I'm not _really_ fond of renaming all the packages, but if it is really required...09:58
Kamionneeds a fair bit of testing with a private archive, I suspect, to make sure it actually does the right thing09:59
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Kamionpitti: this sounds like it might take more than a day to get right. Could I have a temporary solution so that I can release Array 6 tomorrow, maybe just reverting the Depends->Pre-Depends change?10:05
Kamionunless you're confident it can happen by tomorrow10:05
pittiKamion: just changing s/Depends/Recommends/ is relatively easy10:06
pittiKamion: I just have to reupload all base packages10:06
pittiKamion: doing the rename and dependency changes can be done tomorrow as well10:06
pittiKamion: it's not much more work compared to just s/Depends/Recommends/10:07
pittiKamion: when is array 6 due? I. e. what exactly would be my deadline?10:07
Kamionsometime tomorrow, no specific time10:08
Kamionok, whatever you think's best10:08
Kamionif you could be contactable for a few hours after you make the change so that we can pick up on any problems, though, that would be good10:08
pittiKamion: let's say I do this as very first thing tomorrow (too tired today)10:10
Kamionpitti: ok, sounds good10:10
pittiKamion: then it can be ready, tested and uploaded by 1000 UTC10:10
Kamionpitti: where are the langpacks generated? I assume it's some machine in the DC10:10
pittiKamion: I put some example packages onto p.u.c for testing before10:11
pittiKamion: maybe you can test the packages as well10:11
pittiKamion: yes, that is rookery:/srv/langpack...10:11
Kamionyep, can do10:11
Kamionah, of course10:11
pittiKamion: I think your dependency scheme looks right10:11
Kamionpitti: it was kind of off the top of my head, and I'm not sure I know all the constraints on language packs, so ...10:12
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pittiKamion: so far the only integration is with the installer10:13
dredgquestion: would it be worth having a page on the wiki with locations and names of people prepared to sign keys (on seeing valid ID of course)?10:13
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Kamionpitti: well, I was thinking more of requirements; the various meetings mentioning it made my head spin10:14
ogradredg: sure10:14
dholbachwe should have jdub's world map for ubuntu as well10:14
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ogradredg: jdub madesomething and i think mako could have some data for it10:14
pittiKamion: well, I won't change the structure and contents of the packaging, the mere name should just be obvious10:14
Kamionpitti: -update is just a bandwidth-saver, right?10:15
pittiKamion: yes, this is the one we regenereate daily10:16
pittiKamion: relative to the most recent base10:16
Kamionoh, I don't expect changes here for hoary, but any reason why -update doesn't just install files in a different location?10:16
pittiKamion: because then we needed a third gettext path and a complicated three-way comparison in glibc10:17
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Kamionfair enough10:17
pittiKamion: and to save space10:17
pittiKamion: otherwise you would have most of the files twice10:17
dredgogra: ok, i might poke jdub with it next time he's about10:18
ogradredg: yup, do that, and ask mako for keyholder data, he might have a list10:19
makodredg: well.. we don't require signatures from people who are ubuntu developers (yet)10:21
=== sm-tests is now known as sm
makoogra, dredg: we are mostly concerned with anybody in the strongly connected set10:21
makothe best site i know of for doing that sort of coordination is biglumber10:21
=== dredg nods
dredgmako: what i was getting at is hypothetically, i get my key into a strongly connected set associated with ubuntu by ubuntu people, and prospective members/maintainers could for example, contact me to have their key signed.10:23
dredgmako: this is ireland. not a big place :)10:23
pittigood night everybody10:24
ogranight pitti, and thanks forthe work10:24
sivangogra: yep, he's quick :)10:25
Kamiondredg: I'll probably be over there in August, but I think keysigning on one's honeymoon is deprecated ;)10:26
=== dredg grins
dredgKamion: no, it's the new cool thing.. ors.. 10:27
dredgplus i'm more likely to be in the UK before then :)10:27
mdzlamont: ping?10:28
lamontKamion: deprecated, possibly.  But should still be doable, yes?10:30
Kamionlamont: hypothetically, but it ain't gonna happen :)10:31
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lamonthrm.. mdz ping and run?10:32
Kamionhm, is auckland not syncing at the moment?10:32
=== Kamion wonders where his choose-mirror upload of nearly three hours ago has got to
=== jon1012 [~jon@AMontsouris-151-1-37-163.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontKamion: 1.06ubuntu5?10:34
mdzlamont: name of the powerpc porting box?10:34
Kamionlamont: yes10:35
lamontit's installed according to my information10:35
lamont(although the file dumps are from 6 min ago)10:36
lamonthaven't looked further back for when it really transitioned to installed10:36
mjg59Kamion: Someone's just posted hotplug patches for macio10:37
Kamionmjg59: mdz sent me some of those a while back, I never had time to review them :(10:37
Kamionhaving those would rock, though10:37
Kamionlamont: if I uploaded debian-installer now, would it be built against choose-mirror 1.06ubuntu5?10:38
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mdzmjg59: Jeff Mahoney?10:43
seb128lamont: can you kick bug-buddy build please ?10:44
lamontseb128: and it'll now magically find xmllint and xsltproc?10:45
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mdzKamion: do you have an array 6 todo list?10:45
seb128lamont: I've fixed gnome-doc-utils so it should10:46
mdzKamion: I' m ready to do a full round of live+install testing10:46
Amaranthbeagle doesn't need inotify anymore?10:46
zulAmaranth, apparently not10:47
lamontdoko: aspell-sl is ftbfs, as reported in debian10:49
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makodredg: big enough10:50
Kamionmdz: I've been hoping to get a new kernel first, primarily, and there's these langpack changes10:52
mdzwho are we waiting on for the kernel?10:53
Kamionlamont: do you know what's happening there?10:53
mdzif there isn't any particular reason to believe that we'll be able to use inotify for Hoary, there isn't any point in that bit10:53
lamontKamion: t-bone is having screaming fits at baz, that much is known 10:54
KamionI'd like to have nfs-modules-*.udeb, it's fairly important for kickstart10:54
mdzis there any way that I can set up a powerpc system to boot from CD by default?10:54
jon1012good night all ^^10:54
sivangnight jon1012 10:54
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mdzlamont: what do t-bone and baz have to do with the hoary kernel update?10:55
Kamionmdz: nvsetenv boot-device <something> ought to do it10:55
T-Bonemdz: maybe the fact that i'll be uploading next release10:55
Kamionmdz: possibly nvsetenv boot-device cd:10:55
zulmdz: about inotify tseng and i are testing something that we found10:56
rubenvmjg59: fabbione: what's the basic difference between booting in recovery and normal?11:03
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lamontmdz: t-bone was doing the prepwork for this upload11:04
rubenvmjg59: fabbione: basically it boots with the recovery kernel and runs well, with the normal kernel, it just flunks out after a while11:04
lamontI have a diff of his tree, worst case I'll wind up reimporting it into baz here.11:04
rubenvfor no specific reason11:04
lunitikrubenv: I think these are more topics for #ubuntu11:05
Kamionmdz: however the big change in the kernel is enabling ATAPI support in libata, which is a sabdfl item11:05
Kamionwell I say "big", I think it's an #ifdef change :)11:06
rubenvlunitik: i know what's the difference, but this is a crashing kernel11:06
rubenvnot a user issue11:06
mdzan #ifdef change which effects detecting the disks in all SATA systems, yes :-)11:06
mdzlamont: the kernel packages are in baz?11:06
lunitikrubenv: umm... its more a usage issue than a devel issue11:07
Kamionyeah ... I don't think I'm going to get away with not at least trying it, though11:07
Kamionrubenv: the "normal kernel" and the "recovery kernel" are the same kernel11:07
rubenvlunitik: a kernel that crashes after about 2 minutes for no specific reason is well, crap11:07
rubenvKamion: yeah, i figured so too, reading from the grub conf11:07
zulKamion: its been tested though11:07
Kamionrecovery mode is just single-user, it's doing rather less work11:08
Kamionzul: *nod*11:08
zuland it was glemmed from mandrake11:08
rubenvyeah, but after booting on from single, it shouldn't start anything that can cause the kernel to hang?11:08
Kamionzul: don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea, we'll just have to be quick about testing it and if necessary reverting11:08
jbaileyrubenv: In general you can't promise that.  You need hotplug to get you usb keyboards and such.11:09
rubenvjbailey: it's a laptop :(11:09
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rubenvit's strange shit man11:09
lamontmdz: we imported the debian portion into baz11:09
lamonter, debian/ directory11:09
lamontseb128: same failure11:10
lamontseb128: which version of which package did you assert fixed it, and I'll verify that we actaully got that version11:11
seb128lamont: don't bother there is a build-depends issue too, I'll fix it right now :)11:11
seb128Uploading via ftp evolution_2.1.6.orig.tar.gz: Error '(32, 'Broken pipe')' during ftp transfer of evolution_2.1.6.orig.tar.gz11:11
seb128hate this bug11:12
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lamontseb128: you need smaller packages. :-)11:12
seb128that's an option11:12
seb128somebody willing to maintain gtk and evolution here ? :p11:13
ograseb128: what do you pay ?11:13
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seb128that's for free11:13
seb128you will have a lot of fun with them11:13
seb128that's better than money :)11:13
=== T-Bone learns that fun is a new synonym for 'pain' ;)
ograyup, i already have....every day ;)11:14
zulT-Bone: you masochist you11:14
T-Bonezul: i must be. Baz's my bitch :P11:14
ograT-Bone: you should talk to fabbione about that ;)11:14
zulwhen is he suppose to be back anyway?11:15
ograzul: i thought you should know that11:15
zulyeah but i forget things easily :)11:19
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lamontKamion: you around?11:21
=== lamont lets workrave win for a minute or 2
jdubelmo: ping11:23
Kamionmdz: re testing, I'm actually more or less in sync with live CDs now11:24
seb128jdub: new gamin :p11:25
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zulArrogance: are you in ontario?11:27
=== lamont bbiab
Arrogancezul, yes11:28
zuli c11:28
jdubseb128: yeah, saw11:29
zullamont: check out #ubuntu-kernel for a sec11:32
Kamionnight all11:33
dholbachbye Kamion 11:33
=== T-Bone goes get some caffeine. Likely to be in for a few more hours :(
dholbachsleep tight :-)11:33
ograKamion: night11:33
zulnight kamion11:34
lunitikmodconf in warty, dropped in hoary?11:37
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sivanglunitik: was dropped upstream IIRC11:40
sivanglunitik: ah oops,11:40
sivanglunitik: I thought you were talking about alsaconf11:40
lunitiksivang: heh... nah... someone is asking about it... its listed in the archive though, and I don't see it, so I'm guessing it was dropped for hoary11:41
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lunitiksivang: personally, I don't see why someone would use it... but whatever11:41
gmaI'm using glade on warty to create a UI with a GtkFileChooserDialog in it.11:42
gmabut libglade doesn't know about the widget11:42
sivanglunitik: probably 11:42
gmais there a known version number mismatch on warty?11:42
sivanglunitik: I wonder if you can install it from universe he he11:44
lunitiksivang: nope... I have that enabled11:45
sivanglunitik: I see, then probably not.11:46
sivanglunitik: I actually used it when I dind't know the exact name of the module i was requiring once11:46
=== lunitik uses google in such situations
sivanglunitik: right, google know11:49
lunitikWhy oh why isn't Evince in main, and replacing GGV and XPDF yet?  *cries*11:51
lunitikPlus... why isn't eog going bye bye due to gthumb?11:51
lunitikOnly complaints I have with Ubuntu right now  *still_crying*11:52
jdubthey do different things11:52
Mithrandirgthumb also eats _loads_ of ram.11:52
lunitikjdub: what does eog do that gthumb can't?11:52
jdublunitik: it's a simple, no-nonsense image viewer.11:52
lunitikjdub: gthumb is fast here... and is pretty basic while still doing what I need... I can't remember the last time I actually used eog on purpose11:53
mxpxpodalso, what does eog do that nautilus can't do?11:53
lunitikI don't think I ever have actually11:54
Mithrandirgthumb uses 250MB of RAM for rotating a picture her.11:54
lunitikmxpxpod: actually... I think nautilus uses eog... should be using gthumb though  ^_^11:54
jdubmxpxpod: it's a simple no-nonsense image viewer.11:54
lunitikjdub: gdi... but it sucks  :(11:54
lunitikplus... thats trivial compared to other complaint11:55
lunitikSo long as eog doesn't try to do anything, I'm happy... but XPDF is annoying, and ugly.11:55
sivangjdub: we should have a FAQ entry for the evince over xpdf issue :)11:56
HrdwrBoBif eog had a 'next' button'11:56
HrdwrBoBwhich progressed to the next picture in the directory11:56
HrdwrBoB.. it would be fine11:57
lunitiksivang: when evince is ready, I believe it will replace ggv and xpdf... but ever since wart preview, I have complained about xpdf being around, its even in kubuntu-base... I dislike it a great deal11:57
MithrandirHrdwrBoB: just click the first picture in the directory index and use the left and right buttons11:58
sivanglunitik: it does lack some nice gui frontending, but jdub noted to me sometime ago about some stuff evince is missing at the moment, the last time I asked him about it :)11:58
lunitikI even keep going over to Fedora simply because I don't want to ever see/use xpdf11:59
lunitikThe choice alone is just bad11:59
HrdwrBoBMithrandir: I can see the preview in nautilus11:59
jdubit's difficult to take your input seriously with that kind of commentary11:59
sivanglunitik: that's hardly an applicable argument, I must admit.12:00
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Mithrandirthough, to be honest, eog uses loads of memory too.12:00

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