[12:14] <Simira> *waiting impatiently for Tollef to come home*
[09:30] <smurfix> Can somebody clear the topics from the CC agenda page which were processed last time?
[05:00] <sabdfl> hi all
[05:00] <sabdfl> is the tech board meeting today also at 20h00?
[05:02] <sabdfl> erk
[05:02] <sabdfl> didn't think mdz meant to move ALL tb meetings, just the one week
[05:11] <Kamion> I think I'd got the impression that it was a permanent change, although I don't know from where
[05:16] <smurfix> Heh, whether he meant to or not, it happened. ;)
[08:53] <Simira> hi silbs
[08:54] <zul> hye ogra
[08:54] <ogra> hi zul
[08:56] <silbs> hi Simira
[08:59] <sivang> hi silbs 
[08:59] <Simira> silbs: I'm working on some "package solution" on merchandice-stuff for lan-parties and conferences. I was on a lan-party last week, and did some recognozation. :)
[09:01] <sivang> hey Simira , everybody else
[09:01] <sabdfl> -hi all
[09:01] <zul> hey sabdfl 
[09:01] <pitti> Hi sabdfl
[09:01] <sivang> hi again sabdfl 
[09:01] <Simira> hi sivang
[09:02] <ogra> hi sabdfl
[09:02] <sabdfl> tech board here?
[09:02] <sivang> right
[09:02] <zul> hey everyone else
[09:02] <sabdfl> well that's the greets taken care of - and nicely too :-)
[09:02] <ogra> looks like TB ...in the topic....
[09:03] <zul> hey T-Bone 
[09:03] <T-Bone> hi
[09:03] <sivang> some interesting stuff there wrt "WinningTheDesktop" and "WhatWindowsUsersWant" on the wiki
[09:03] <Keybuk> just waiting for mdz ... :p
[09:03] <pitti> sivang: indeed, this was pretty good
[09:03] <sabdfl> everyone read the agenda?
[09:04] <ogra> pitti: did you recognize my mail ?
[09:04] <Simira> ah, right... the meeting
[09:04] <mdz> morning
[09:05] <sabdfl> hiya
[09:05] <sabdfl> is tim morris here?
[09:05] <doko> evening all
[09:05] <Keybuk> evening
[09:05] <mdz> I do not think he is here
[09:06] <sabdfl> ok, let's get going
[09:06] <mdz> I have skimmed his documents, and they are very interesting, but I do not think it is tech board material
[09:06] <mdz> would make a great BOF I think
[09:06] <pitti> indeed
[09:06] <ogra> yup
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: fits nicely into the Hoary+1 goals
[09:06] <sivang> mdz: yeah
[09:06] <sabdfl> his work is excellent
[09:06] <ogra> looks like he did a lot of work for that
[09:06] <sabdfl> some of the issues are tb, i think, in terms of signing off on specs and goals
[09:07] <sivang> we could take some of the features there and actually make action items out of them for hoary+1
[09:07] <mdz> we're not doing that for hoary+1 yet
[09:07] <sivang> so maybe for hoary+2 :-
[09:07] <Keybuk> I think mdz means we're not planning the hoary+1 goals yet
[09:07] <mdz> right
[09:07] <sivang> uh right , sorry
[09:07] <mdz> we'll be doing that in Sydney
[09:08] <mdz> where we have a huge list to discuss
[09:08] <sabdfl> yes, the timing of sydney is great for feature goal plans
[09:08] <Keybuk> those two pages would be a fantastic basis for a BOF or two in Sydney
[09:08] <mdz> yes, I'll add it to my BOF list
[09:08] <sabdfl> bof or nine, i think
[09:08] <sivang> hehe
[09:08] <mdz> who added this item about sending patches to Debian?
[09:08] <Keybuk> sabdfl: someone only gave us a week this time ... :p
[09:08] <Keybuk> mdz: me
[09:08] <sabdfl> remember - the output of sydney has to be hard specs
[09:09] <sabdfl> in the past we've had great discussions, but never crystallised them into specs
[09:09] <sabdfl> alright, MaintainerCandidates!
[09:09] <ogra> Keybuk: we will have a MOTU meeting on thursday, probably it fits better there
[09:09] <mdz> lamont has been reviewing the patches spit out by MOM for quite some time now, in order to submit things upstream which have fallen through the cracks
[09:09] <sabdfl> MOM?
[09:09] <mdz> merge-o-matic
[09:09] <ogra> Keybuk: since thats the majority of packages...
[09:09] <sabdfl> right
[09:09] <mdz> lamont: ?
[09:10] <lamont> mdz: and that fell through the cracks last week with the kernel stuff, it's back on top of my list
[09:10] <mdz> lamont: ok, please start submitting bugs this week
[09:10] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah, if you could bring it up in MOTU meeting as well, that'd be good; as a few of those I've been pointed at have been universe packages
[09:10] <mdz> when we last spoke, you already had a stack of things that seemed ready to submit
[09:11] <ogra> Keybuk: yup, and if we dont have a policy in place before the masses run in we are lost :)
[09:11] <lamont> I had a stack of known differences, then went looking at them and came up with one that was clearly a debian bug fix and not an ubuntu-ism.  That one got filed
[09:11] <sabdfl> we should definitely be continuing to publish the patches, as we did for warty
[09:11] <lamont> and questioned
[09:11] <sabdfl> malone will allow us to automate a lot of this
[09:11] <lamont> sabdfl: that'll be great
[09:12] <sabdfl> where we fix a bug that malone knows is in debian, it could automatically file a note in the debian bts
[09:12] <sabdfl> saying: "baz get ...."
[09:12] <sivang> wow, that'd be so cool
[09:12] <Keybuk> lamont: I think part of the problem is the line between ubuntu-ism and bugs; some maintainers (Marco) want to see everything and be able to decide themselves whether it's a bug or ubuntuism
[09:13] <mdz> Keybuk: perhaps we should more widely publish the MOM output
[09:13] <mdz> and invite Debian maintainers to review it
[09:13] <sabdfl> hold on - we have a responsibility to publish source, which we do, and where we can help notify someone of a fix to a known bug, we should, but we can't take repsonsibility for getting it all accepted
[09:13] <lamont> Keybuk: one cop-out solution is to just file bugs against every package in hoary that has 'ubuntu' in the version, telling the maintainer that there's a diff.  But that's the wrong end of the spectrum, I believe
[09:13] <sabdfl> if the debian maintainer wants to be tightly in the loop, let them become ubuntu maintainers and collaborate
[09:13] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, I could mail debian-devel with the URL of the m-o-m output
[09:13] <lamont> Keybuk: that'd be a big step forward I think.
[09:13] <sabdfl> that would be spam-o-matic
[09:13] <mdz> sabdfl: we've made a statement that we'll go the extra step, and not require them to come to us in order to see what we've done
[09:14] <lamont> especially given the subjective nature of what the maintainer(s) want to know about
[09:14] <sabdfl> mdz: where we fix debian bugs, yes
[09:14] <sabdfl> we can't do the work on both sides
[09:14] <haggai> what about making a way for DDs to opt in to notifications of changes for just the packages they are interested in
[09:15] <haggai> i.e. their own packages
[09:15] <sabdfl> we could build that into malone, yes
[09:15] <mdz> "Ubuntu contributes patches directly to Debian as bugs are fixed during the Ubuntu release process, not just when the release is actually made"
[09:15] <Keybuk> does malone/launchpad provide the functionality to subscribe to a package?
[09:15] <Keybuk> ala. the Debian QA system
[09:15] <mdz> hypothetically
[09:15] <sabdfl> mdz: we were publishing them in /patches/ which is plenty
[09:15] <sabdfl> Keybuk: no, we've not spec'd that, it would be a good bof in UDU
[09:15] <mdz> sabdfl: there seems to be some question about what subset of what we do, we publish
[09:16] <pitti> but eventually they should be filed in the Debian BTS to track them there, too. /patches/ is too invisible and untrackable
[09:16] <sabdfl> in theory we should be publishing everything
[09:16] <mdz> launchpad can't be the answer to this stuff; this level of functionality is a very long way off
[09:16] <dholbach> per-package RSS feeds with links to /patches/ would be cool
[09:16] <mdz> sabdfl: I mean, what we push-publish
[09:16] <doko> publishing the patches is /patches is a lot of work, for some packages I created an attachment in the bug report and pointed the maintainer to the bug report.
[09:16] <doko> s/is/in
[09:16] <sabdfl> mdz: we should *definitely* push-publish any fix for a known debian bug
[09:17] <pitti> I think as soon as we do everyting in arch, we already have the corresponding changelogs for a patch, then we can publish these somewher
[09:17] <haggai> doko is right, to do it manually is certainly quite time consuming
[09:17] <mdz> pitti: yes, but again, this is a very long way off
[09:17] <sabdfl> that's why it's most important to do it for the places we fix a known bug in debbugs
[09:17] <pitti> until then I think we just need to take the time to fill bugs
[09:17] <mdz> Keybuk: do you have a pointer to something which describes actual complaints from Debian, if any?
[09:17] <mdz> Keybuk: is it about our enhancements, bugfixes, methods of publishing, what?
[09:17] <pitti> however, I very often file bugs to the Debian BTS, but many of them (derooting, cups, etc.) tend to be ignored
[09:18] <Keybuk> mdz: nothing concrete, is mostly just /msg when I'm active in #debian-devel from one or two people
[09:18] <pitti> so far _none_ of my derooting patches has been adopted
[09:18] <mdz> pitti: I don't think it's necessary to push those
[09:18] <Kamion> there was a fair bit of disgruntled blog activity a couple of weeks back
[09:18] <Keybuk> I think most of the changes fall into our enhancements that people feel should be in Debian
[09:18] <lamont> pitti: this isn't about whether or not they accept them
[09:18] <Keybuk> hotplug, etc.
[09:18] <pitti> lamont: right, but if you don't see any reply, my motivation decreases to publish further patches
[09:18] <doko> pitti: yes, same experience here, 50% are ignored, and the rest applied with, or without any notice.
[09:18] <sabdfl> if we've slacked off since the warty release i can understand it, it's a lot of work to push every patch, but we should try to tighten up again now we are in pure-fix-bugs mode
[09:19] <Keybuk> or where a bug is filed in our Bugzilla, fixed by us -- but never filed in debbugs, even though it affects them
[09:19] <sivang> we should be probably working close with the packages respective debian maintainers like pitti does with sjored on hal and dbus
[09:19] <pitti> OTOH, my security patches are really leeched
[09:19] <lamont> pitti: except that we happen to be paid to publish them... 
[09:19] <pitti> right, cooperation with sjoerd works perfectly
[09:19] <sivang> so maintainers have an idea what's going on and if they want to adopt patches they do.
[09:19] <lamont> sabdfl: definitely
[09:19] <mdz> sabdfl: we have slacked a bit on bugfixes, but we do a lot more on our own now (and not in response to known debian bug reports) as well
[09:20] <mdz> we're not working out of debbugs anymore
[09:20] <mdz> the vast majority of our work is directly with Ubuntu users
[09:20] <Kamion> my impression is that it's not that there's a general lack of communication, there's just enough things that fall through the cracks that people notice them
[09:20] <lamont> mdz: and that's certainly a component of the problem
[09:20] <sabdfl> so let's leave it to the judgement call of the person making the fix
[09:20] <Keybuk> mdz: and we're not using Debian ourselves anymore, so don't notice the bugs
[09:20] <mdz> therefore, the policy that we would submit things to Debian where it was known/reported in Debian already, has led to a drop in patch submission
[09:20] <sabdfl> if it's in debbugs, and we found it there and fixed it, then we should definitely notify upstream / maintainer about the fix
[09:20] <mdz> to do otherwise would be prohibitively expensive in terms of developer time, in order to investigate/test/reproduce the bug on Debian
[09:21] <sabdfl> we're not using debbugs any longer?
[09:21] <sabdfl> i don't know that
[09:21] <sabdfl> didn't
[09:21] <mdz> sabdfl: not exclusively
[09:21] <lamont> users are filing bugs at bugzilla.ubuntu.colm
[09:21] <mdz> we still import RC bugs from Debian
[09:21] <sabdfl> but we're still syncing in from debbugs to bugzilla?
[09:21] <mdz> my point was that most of the bugs are from Ubuntu users now, and not from debbugs
[09:21] <lamont> and those bugs aren't necessarily in debbugs
[09:21] <sabdfl> right
[09:21] <sabdfl> well, let's start with this:
[09:21] <Kamion> since we get all the trivial stuff through bugzilla and only get the serious stuff through debbugs
[09:22] <sabdfl>  - if it's in debbugs, and we fix it, definitely try to publish the fix in debbugs
[09:22] <mdz> Kamion: right
[09:22] <Kamion> and the volume of the former is much greater :)
[09:22] <mdz> sabdfl: searching debbugs to find out of the bug is filed there is a great deal of work for non-trivial packages
[09:22] <trulux> hi
[09:22] <sabdfl>  - otherwise use your judgement
[09:22] <mdz> s/out of/out if/
[09:22] <sivang> mdz: imported RC bugs get always published-pushed right?
[09:23] <sabdfl> mdz: i meant, if we LEARNED about it from debbugs, so we already know its there
[09:23] <mdz> sabdfl: ok
[09:23] <mdz> sivang: that is the idea, yes
[09:23] <Kamion> sivang: not automatically, though
[09:23] <sivang> mdz: at least for those is should be 
[09:23] <sivang> Kamion: eh
[09:23] <sabdfl> do we have an idea of the patch acceptance rate for that class of patches?
[09:23] <mdz> that's become a very small amount of our work, though
[09:23] <lamont> sivang: and at least a few people missed a few such...
[09:23] <sabdfl>  - in debbugs, we fix it, we ppublish the patch?
[09:23] <sivang> lamont: I see
[09:23] <mdz> s/in debbugs/came from debbugs/
[09:23] <Kamion> sivang: because sometimes we need to say "this doesn't affect us" for one reason or another, and that would just be noise in debbugs
[09:24] <sabdfl> yes, sorry, came from debbugs
[09:24] <sivang> Kamion: ok
[09:24] <Kamion> sivang: so our automatic gateway is only unidirectional, very deliberately
[09:24] <sabdfl> Kamion: i like the idea of allowing the debian maintainer to turn on bidirectionality
[09:24] <pitti> is that possible with bz?
[09:25] <Kamion> sabdfl: it's not a per-maintainer thing really though, it's a per-bug thing
[09:25] <sabdfl> that would be harder :-
[09:25] <sabdfl> )
[09:25] <Kamion> and the Debian maintainer can subscribe to a particular bug if they want
[09:25] <sabdfl> "flag this bug as "HELP ME PLEASE""
[09:25] <haggai> Kamion: but debian users wouldn't see the bug like that
[09:25] <T-Bone> just a 2cents, but what about adding a knob to bz "send this comment back to BTS", for bugs that were imported?
[09:25] <Kamion> sabdfl: I could probably gather statistics on how many bugs containing our patch URLs are closed and how many open, which might be close enough
[09:25] <sivang> bz?
[09:26] <Kamion> sivang: bugzilla
[09:26] <sivang> Kamion: k
[09:26] <sabdfl> Kamion: ok, would be interesting
[09:27] <mdz> is there any TB decision to be made on this issue?
[09:27] <sabdfl> big picture - my sense is that we are fixing a lot of bugs, and while we should tighten up again to be like pre-warty where we were religious about pushing the bugfixes, we should not also assume responsibility to file a bug upstream for every patch we make
[09:27] <Keybuk> mdz: don't think so; just seemed like a good time to broach the subject given bug fix frenzy starting and most parties being here
[09:28] <mdz> unlike Warty, the bug fixing spree we're about to do is going to be dominated by Ubuntu bug reports, not Debian ones
[09:28] <sabdfl> mdz: perhaps just a mail to the team from you reminding folks of the procedure particularly for bugs which came to us from debbugs and which we fix?
[09:28] <T-Bone> sabdfl: i thought we made a religion of pushing back fixes?
[09:28] <pitti> sabdfl: indeed, filing bugs upstream is a PITA
[09:29] <sabdfl> T-Bone: we publish everything, immediately, and where we know it is going to be immediately useful we make it extra easy for upstream
[09:29] <pitti> sabdfl: pushing them to Debian is easy, but for upstream you have to look for gazillions of different email and bts systems, some of them don't even have a bts
[09:29] <mdz> we could build some tools to simplify the process, but it would be throwaway work
[09:29] <T-Bone> sabdfl: ok got it
[09:29] <sabdfl> malone is coming along
[09:29] <pitti> when, BTW?
[09:30] <sabdfl> it will take time to get it right, but it gives us the ability to automate a LOT of this
[09:30] <sabdfl> we'll be using it heavily for bendy, and it will be rocking for bendy+1
[09:30] <Keybuk> s/bendy/hoary+1/
[09:30] <Keybuk> :p
[09:30] <sivang> hehehe
[09:30] <sabdfl> Keybuk: you STARTED it
[09:30] <mdz> should we start a flam^Wdiscussion with Debian about what we do in this area?
[09:30] <haggai> can the m-o-m output URL be placed next to the statement on the Debian and Ubuntu page about pushing patches back
[09:31] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I was JOKING :p
[09:31] <ogra> btw, we will discuss this topic too in the MOTU meeting on thursday: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
[09:31] <sabdfl> haggai: good idea
[09:32] <mdz> agreed
[09:32] <sabdfl> ok, let's move on
[09:32] <sivang> would be interesting to look at it regardless of pushing stuff upstream, I never saw a MOM output :)
[09:32] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/
[09:32] <Keybuk> or
[09:32] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/
[09:33] <sivang> Keybuk: hehe, cool 
[09:33] <haggai> ah, it was already here :)
[09:34] <Keybuk> the latter just provides the current ubuntu/debian changes
[09:34] <Keybuk> with added humour
[09:34] <sabdfl> Keybuk: very nice!
[09:34] <sabdfl> ready for MaintainerCandidates?
[09:34] <Kamion> Keybuk: last I looked, it only provided the changes when a subsequent Debian change (and thus m-o-m run) had happened
[09:34] <Kamion> Keybuk: has that been fixed?
[09:34] <sivang> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/blam/blam_1.6.0-1ubuntu1_unknown.patch :-)
[09:34] <Keybuk> Kamion: that's still true
[09:35] <mdz> (added link to /patches/ to the Ubuntu and Debian page)
[09:35] <Keybuk> it's a side-effect of the merge-o-matic output rather than a separate process in its own right
[09:35] <Keybuk> I could make it a separate process easy enough though
[09:35] <mdz> ready for MaintainerCandidates
[09:35] <sabdfl> Keybuk: go ahead and do that
[09:36] <Keybuk> on MaintainerCandidates, the current list is huge -- could it be separated out into lists of people at each stage so we know who is actually up this time?
[09:36] <ogra> sabdfl: we have four MOTU candidates that could get apprved if they had a review from a second approver and have already workes on packages that were upoaded on behalf...
[09:36] <mdz> it has been cleaned up since the last time
[09:37] <ogra> s/workes/worked
[09:37] <mdz> the people who are already maintainers/members have been processed
[09:37] <ogra> yup, these are all current candidates
[09:37] <mdz> Is there anyone here who is seeking technical board approval to upload packages to Ubuntu?
[09:38] <dholbach> dredg, jani, wasabi and metalikop are on the list, right ogra?
[09:38] <ogra> wasabi, dredg ,  jani, metallikop anyone around ?
[09:38] <dredg> ?
[09:38] <Keybuk> mdz: is the current list /all/ awaiting TB approval then?
[09:38] <sabdfl> hi dredg, wasabi
[09:38] <doko> mdz: not exactly, but pushing zope packages from universe to supported.
[09:38] <dredg> lo sabdfl 
[09:38] <wasabi> Hello.
[09:38] <mdz> Keybuk: no
[09:39] <dholbach> metalikop seems to be idle for 03:34:41
[09:39] <sabdfl> you guys are up for maintainership candidacy, right?
[09:39] <mdz> doko: we're talking about confirming new Ubuntu maintainers
[09:40] <wasabi> Yes.
[09:40] <dholbach> jani, metalikop and dredg have been very active in the UniversePythonTransition
[09:40] <mdz> for universe, or unrestricted?
[09:40] <jani> I'm here 
[09:40] <jani> was gone for 5 minutes
[09:40] <dholbach> mdz: universe
[09:40] <ogra> mdz: MOTU
[09:41] <mdz> do all of you already have approval from an MOTU leader?
[09:41] <mdz> and so only need one more ack?
[09:41] <ogra> yup
[09:41] <ogra> we did a lot of cross review....
[09:41] <mdz> have you already sent signed CoC to mako?
[09:41] <dredg> i have not.
[09:41] <jani> not me yet
[09:41] <ogra> gah
[09:41] <jani> no keyowners in the area
[09:42] <jani> have to do it via snailmail
[09:42] <jani> :(
[09:42] <dredg> unsigned key. i can fax it
[09:42] <dredg> (well, selfsigned)
[09:42] <wasabi> I am hopeing to maintain some java-related things... most notably Eclipse.
[09:42] <mdz> can each of you state your real name?  your nicks are not familiar
[09:42] <dredg> mdz: Niall Sheridan
[09:42] <jani> Jani Monoses
[09:42] <wasabi> Jerry Haltom
[09:43] <mdz> thanks
[09:43] <jani> nor are our real names ;)
[09:43] <ogra> metalikop would be: AaronLake
[09:43] <Keybuk> I don't see JerryHaltom on MaintainerCandidates ?
[09:43] <mdz> it would be preferable to allow MOTU itself to approve new members; that was the original intent.  are we still seeking a second MOTU leader?
[09:44] <Kamion> we appointed Treenaks
[09:44] <mdz> it is much more effective for MOTU to be self-supporting, since you are working as a group and are familiar with one another's activities
[09:44] <Kamion> with somebody as backup, who temporarily escapes me
[09:44] <ogra> nope... but both additional approvers were on fosdem last weekend..
[09:44] <Kamion> oh, was it Mithrandir as backup?
[09:44] <ogra> yup
[09:44] <Mithrandir> yes
[09:45] <wasabi> Keybuk, it's not. I came to this meeting unprepared. My shoes are untied and I had to have the secretary put on my tie. =/
[09:45] <sabdfl> mdz: we'll need to bootstrap it a little, though
[09:45] <ogra> Kamion: but you are welcome as well ;)
[09:45] <Kamion> ogra: you don't want to see the length of my to-do list already
[09:45] <mdz> sabdfl: MOTU has a healthy base already, in fact
[09:45] <sabdfl> maybe it would help to say something like "when you've had 5 packages reviewed and uploaded"?
[09:45] <mdz> wasabi: we're still getting into the rhythm of the process
[09:46] <ogra> sabdfl: since we are working in a group and do cross reviews this would probably be a better way
[09:46] <dholbach> sabdfl++
[09:46] <ogra> sabdfl: wouldnt invole relying on a singl (or two) persons
[09:46] <mdz> the wiki only mentions haggai
[09:46] <sabdfl> i like what's written on all the guys' wiki pages, so we are on the right track
[09:46] <mdz> who, as I recall, had to step down
[09:47] <sabdfl> i'm just concerned that asking someone who hasn't reviewed real code to approve someone else as a maintainer is not going to get the result we want
[09:47] <mdz> we all agree that it doesn't make much sense for the technical board to try to make a judgement on candidates without any information to go on
[09:47] <sabdfl> ogra: who's been most active in the MOTU team?
[09:47] <Kamion> mdz: I think the wiki is obsolete; we discussed this in the CC meeting last week
[09:47] <ogra> sabdfl: dholbach and me i think.....
[09:47] <doko> dholbach seemed to be quite ctive
[09:48] <Kamion> I was under the impression some MOTU would update their pages
[09:48] <tseng> yep, id agree with dholbach and ogra as most active
[09:48] <ogra> sabdfl: dholbach recently lots more then me, since i'm busy with hwdb
[09:48] <wasabi> I added myself to the wiki in case it matters.
[09:48] <sabdfl> are there any of the candidates that you can both recommend without reservation, confident they will do high quality work and that they'll be able to identify risky moves in advance of making them?
[09:48] <sabdfl> *both* recommend?
[09:49] <ogra> sabdfl: i think we could both be happy with dredg, jani and wasabi ...metalikop could need a bit more training
[09:49] <ogra> dholbach ?
[09:49] <dholbach> i can definitely recommend dredg, jani
[09:49] <sabdfl> dholbach: ?
[09:49] <dholbach> i didnt work with wasabi that much
[09:50] <dholbach> but he seems quite active on the java front
[09:50] <dholbach> dredg and jani communicate nicely with the team
[09:50] <mdz> wasabi: you've been working with jbailey on the java stuff, or on your own?
[09:50] <wasabi> With jbailey.
[09:50] <mdz> jbailey: are you here?
[09:50] <ogra> jbailey ?
[09:50] <jbailey> I've been working with him.
[09:51] <jbailey> I'm happy with wasabi's packaging, and I'm confident that he thinks things through before giving them to me to sponsor.
[09:51] <sabdfl> ok, i'm happy to take ogra and dholbach's endorsement of dredg and jani
[09:51] <mdz> jbailey: do you have enough information to make a recommendation about whether he is ready to upload packages to universe/
[09:52] <mdz> between ogra and jbailey, I'm happy with wasabi
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: I've reviewed 3 of his packages to far for packaging, and I've worked with him on this and seen him around #gnome-debian before.
[09:52] <sabdfl> ok
[09:52] <ogra> i think if someone has already fixed 7 packages (wasabi) that got uploaded on behalf he must have at least understood the basics ;)
[09:52] <wasabi> 7?
[09:52] <sabdfl> i guess metalikop needs to work with the MOTU team a little longer
[09:52] <dholbach> wow... 7 already
[09:53] <sabdfl> guys, there will be a LOT of movement in universe these next few weeks, with a lot of work on KDE
[09:53] <mdz> who will take responsibility for guiding them through the rest of the process (keys, CoC, etc.)?
[09:53] <mdz> sabdfl: most of KDE moved into main today
[09:53] <ogra> mdz: dholbach and me
[09:53] <wasabi> ogra, where did that 7 come from?
[09:53] <dholbach> yes
[09:53] <sabdfl> ok
[09:54] <dholbach> hoary-changes?
[09:54] <mdz> ogra: ok, thank you
[09:54] <ogra> wasabi: i did a search for your name in hoary-changes....
[09:54] <wasabi> Oh I see! Probably my few gnome packages which seb never change the maintainer line on.
[09:54] <sabdfl> ok, are we done with MaintainerCandidates?
[09:54] <mdz> I think so
[09:54] <dholbach> cool
[09:55] <mdz> I'd like to say that I think MOTU is coming together very nicely, you're doing excellent work as a team
[09:55] <mdz> thanks for your efforts
[09:55] <dredg> cheers guys
[09:55] <sabdfl> welcome aboard guys
[09:55] <jani> thanks
[09:55] <dholbach> thanks :-)
[09:55] <wasabi> No hi five for me? :)
[09:56] <sabdfl> wasabi: respek
[09:56] <sabdfl> next?
[09:56] <wasabi> yay. =)
[09:56] <mdz> thanks especially to ogra and dholbach for helping organize the team and encourage people to join
[09:56] <mdz> that's it for the agenda
[09:56] <mdz> any other business?
[09:56] <sabdfl> any other business?
[09:56] <jani> mdz, right they're both very motivating and helpful
[09:56] <haggai> yup thanks from me too to ogra/dholbach
[09:56] <sivang> apparently another nice short and relazing tb meeting :-)
[09:57] <sivang> s/relazing/relaxing/
[09:57] <sabdfl> soo... about that bootsplash on the live cd...
[09:57] <sabdfl> kidding
[09:57] <sivang> hehehe
[09:57] <T-Bone> heh
[09:57] <sabdfl> thanks mdz, thanks everyone
[09:57] <ogra> everybody is invited on thursday to joinr our first meeting : https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
[09:57] <sabdfl> ogra: is that a weekly?
[09:57] <sabdfl> i'll be there if i can, but will be quiet if possible :-)
[09:57] <ogra> sabdfl: lets see how often its needed :)
[09:58] <sabdfl> mdz: do you want the tb to be at 20h00 every time?
[09:58] <mdz> sabdfl: yes
[09:58] <sabdfl> ok
[09:58] <sivang> sabdfl: it's pretty good like that
[09:58] <T-Bone> that's cool
[09:58] <dholbach> thanks mdz and sabdfl, thanks everyone else :-)
[09:58] <mdz> sabdfl: is it a problem?
[09:59] <sivang> sabdfl: wops, that was for mdz
[09:59] <sabdfl> not at all, i was just under the impression it was a one-off change
[09:59] <mdz> it's nice to be awake for at least half of the weekly meetings
[09:59] <sabdfl> rock
[09:59] <sabdfl> cheers all
[09:59] <dholbach> bye sabdfl 
[09:59] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[09:59] <sabdfl> hey, who's going DOWN UNDER?
[09:59] <ogra> bye sabdfl 
[09:59] <zul> i wish
[09:59] <T-Bone> i'd have loved to ;}
[10:00] <sivang> sabdfl: btw, how was down under chosen as a name?
[10:00] <Mithrandir> I am (:
[10:00] <dredg> oh me, if enough people contribute to the 'dredg-goes-down-under' fund
[10:00] <pitti> sivang: given where it takes place...
[10:00] <ogra> sabdfl : not sure yet (i resigned from my job last week, dunno if i have the money)
[10:00] <Keybuk> sivang: "Down Under" is UK slang for Australia
[10:00] <sabdfl> sivang: Australia
[10:00] <sivang> Keybuk: ah!
[10:00] <jbailey> Keybuk: Isn't it common slang elsewhere too?
[10:00] <Keybuk> jbailey: one assumes it isn't common south of the Equator :p
[10:00] <jani> not in australia :)
[10:00] <dholbach> jbailey: i only learned it in english classes :-)
[10:01] <Kamion> jbailey: originated in the UK though, since Australia is pretty much antipodeal to here
[10:01] <pitti> UbuntuRightHere for .au :-)
[10:01] <dredg> and by 'contribute to' i mean pay wads of cash into :) and by fund i mean bank account
[10:01] <dredg> (details available on request)
[10:01] <wasabi> so what are the procedures for this post-meeting? key added to upload keyring?
[10:01] <jbailey> Ah.  Well Canadians wind up absorbing UK slang alot of the time anyway.
[10:01] <dholbach> wasabi: you'll have to send the signed CoC to mako
[10:01] <wasabi> already done
[10:01] <wasabi> for Membership.
[10:01] <dholbach> wasabi: and send a signed mail to *looking it up on the wiki*
[10:02] <mdz> (wiki updated)
[10:02] <jani> link please?
[10:02] <dholbach> wasabi: upload@ubuntulinux.org for being on the whitelist and keyring@ubuntulinux.org for being able to upload
[10:03] <dholbach> wasabi: someone already signed your key?
[10:03] <wasabi> good point
[10:03] <wasabi> oh that's going to be a difficult one
[10:03] <dholbach> damn :-/
[10:03] <jani> so  for those with unsigned keys what is to be mailed exactly?
[10:04] <dholbach> tseng had to organize it too
[10:04] <dholbach> but managed else
[10:04] <jani> printed signed CoC, along with a copy of the  ID?
[10:04] <dholbach> your gpg key id
[10:04] <dholbach> and some notarization
[10:05] <jani> and the CoC goes normally via e-mail?
[10:05] <dholbach> yes
[10:05] <dholbach> signed, sent to mako
[10:05] <dholbach> sabdfl offered to sign the key of tseng, when he sent him all that by snailmail
[10:05] <jani> so a text something like this gpg id belongs to Jani Monoses?
[10:05] <wasabi> there a page describing this?
[10:05] <dholbach> not yet
[10:05] <dholbach> damn
[10:06] <dholbach> tseng just left
[10:06] <wasabi> well somebody set up a fax machine once you get a page. ;)
[10:06] <jani> tseng said he'll solve it by getting signed at a asecurity conf he'll attend soon
[10:06] <wasabi> or is this all email? heh
[10:06] <jani> so no papers in his case
[10:07] <dholbach> i guess you ask in #u-d explicitly or get in touch with mako(?)
[10:07] <dholbach> i thought he was another keysigning guru :-)
[10:19] <metalikop> Meeting still on?
[10:19] <metalikop> I'm a bit late :)
[10:20] <ogra> metalikop: meeting is over
[10:20] <metalikop> i figured as much
[10:20] <metalikop> anyone have a log up somewhere?
[10:20] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
[10:22] <metalikop> thanks
[10:24] <haggai> ogra/metalikop: http://irclog.workaround.org is quicker at updating
[10:25] <ogra> ah, thanks